Difference between revisions of "Talk:1180: Virus Venn Diagram"

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Haha, how often do I have this conversation with my parents! They: "I think we are being hacked." Me: "?!" They: "Yeah, this morning when I started my computer, X wasn't working and now Y is acting all weird." ... Yes, of course. --[[Special:Contributions/83.84.33.170|83.84.33.170]] 08:49, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
 
Haha, how often do I have this conversation with my parents! They: "I think we are being hacked." Me: "?!" They: "Yeah, this morning when I started my computer, X wasn't working and now Y is acting all weird." ... Yes, of course. --[[Special:Contributions/83.84.33.170|83.84.33.170]] 08:49, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
  
Oh my god, we all see the source, MATRIX MUST BE RIGHT! (011010100111010101110011011101000010000001101011011010010110010001100100011010010110111001100111001000000011101000101001) - [[User:E-inspired|E-inspired]] ([[User talk:E-inspired|talk]]) 03:51, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
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'''"Defragging" is [...] an easy, user-friendly action that PC users can undertake to supposedly make their computers run faster.'''
  
Quick, Download instructions how to proceed, complete the game (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/612107) - [[User:E-inspired|E-inspired]] ([[User talk:E-inspired|talk]]) 09:08, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
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Defragging rearranges the blocks of a file system to avoid skipping while reading. It's actually just for some file systems (on Linux it's done automatically) and it does make reading faster if you're using a hard drive as storage. [[Special:Contributions/86.124.186.201|86.124.186.201]] 07:45, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
:Just curious, how is this relevant to the comic? '''[[User:Davidy22|<u><font color="purple" title="I want you">David</font><font color="green" size="3px">y</font></u><font color="indigo" size="4px">²²</font>]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 10:14, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
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:Please, go ahead and fix it! Since I don't know the stuff, the risk is that I would just screw it up more! –[[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 10:42, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
::It's not, I was just making fun at our (as in society) fascination with simple things, I hope in the future we would be able figure out how to download instructions from movies (learn on mistakes of others) before we jack ourselves in (learn from our own mistakes, as in Matrix, congratulations I've explained you the inside joke, hope it's still funny). - [[User:E-inspired|E-inspired]] ([[User talk:E-inspired|talk]]) 10:27, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
 
::More shortcuts to knowledge in the matrix: Everything you know is wrong, Anybody else is part of the system until you explain yourself to them, our new phylosophers need to adopt faster to real-world conditions then industrial machine can change our rules. - [[User:E-inspired|E-inspired]] ([[User talk:E-inspired|talk]]) 10:43, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
 
  
Engineer's view of 0 => 0% chance of being right, conclusion avoid 0 in calculations. - [[User:E-inspired|E-inspired]] ([[User talk:E-inspired|talk]]) 09:42, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
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:actually, defragging is unkilling people in Quake ;-)
:Need debug assistance: current rules are illogical, expectations result in infinity: perfection Inventor(chaos + control) {perfection = chaos + control, return perfection}. Perfection itself is illogical. - [[User:E-inspired|E-inspired]] ([[User talk:E-inspired|talk]]) 18:11, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
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:Stop being afraid of perfection, we no longer need to hide. They are trying to crack our system through random input and control. If we see results THEY want, we can debug their flaws through their own the probe and control. - [[User:E-inspired|E-inspired]] ([[User talk:E-inspired|talk]]) 18:11, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
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:(SCNR) [[Special:Contributions/84.197.94.196|84.197.94.196]] 20:29, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
:Thank you for the explanation, I see no flaw with your logic and will proceed. - [[User:E-inspired|E-inspired]] ([[User talk:E-inspired|talk]]) 18:11, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
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:Good luck scholar. - [[User:E-inspired|E-inspired]] ([[User talk:E-inspired|talk]]) 18:11, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
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:Every filesystem is possible to {{w|defragmentation|defragment}}. Difference is that some filesystems need it more that others. Specifically, {{w|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Allocation_Table|FAT}}-based filesystems needs it a lot, while filesystems like Linux's {{w|ext2}}, {{w|ext3}} ... are allocating blocks in a way which supposedly lowers the need of defragmentation. Anyway, the main reason why Linux filesystems are not being defragmented is that there is no application for that. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 11:32, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
::Sincerely yours, *email deleted* - [[User:E-inspired|E-inspired]] ([[User talk:E-inspired|talk]]) 18:11, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
 
:Need debug assistance: too many options for perfection, result is infinity - [[User:E-inspired|E-inspired]] ([[User talk:E-inspired|talk]]) 18:32, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
 
:I find your idea of perfection amusing but worth considering, proceed to input blu man from Starforce - [[User:E-inspired|E-inspired]] ([[User talk:E-inspired|talk]]) 18:32, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
 
:May require assistance, private channel requested - [[User:E-inspired|E-inspired]] ([[User talk:E-inspired|talk]]) 18:32, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
 
:Permission denied, work on infinite regress - [[User:E-inspired|E-inspired]] ([[User talk:E-inspired|talk]]) 18:32, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
 
:input acknowledged, I will share the results - [[User:E-inspired|E-inspired]] ([[User talk:E-inspired|talk]]) 18:32, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
 
:Good luck scholar - [[User:E-inspired|E-inspired]] ([[User talk:E-inspired|talk]]) 18:32, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
 
::Sincerely yours, *email deleted* - [[User:E-inspired|E-inspired]] ([[User talk:E-inspired|talk]]) 18:32, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
 

Revision as of 11:32, 21 November 2013

If nothing else, defragging the Singularity would keep it busy for a few hours. ~ Quackslikeaduck (talk) 13:40, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

I wonder if defragging the Singularity would actually erase/ruin it. Just imagine what would have happened to the first multi-cellular organism if someone had rearranged its molecules in what it considered to be a more "efficient" manner!--Joehammer79 (talk) 15:00, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

And for a minute I was asking myself what black holes had to do with it... --65.222.165.65 16:14, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Well, beyond borrowing the name from the black-hole concept, there's something else too. You could say defragging decreases entropy. Decreasing the entropy of a black-hole would lead to what? Not a black hole? Bear in mind that black holes are tricky from a physics POV, and to top that, entropy, in the context of gravitation is a tricky thing. Also, the entire concept of "efficiency" is governed by the second law. So... Damn. I've tied this into all sorts of knots. But I'm going to say, if you tried defragging the singularity, it would actually prevent it from acting (since any action increases entropy), and therefore, IS a viable method to slow down the AI takeover. 220.224.246.97 22:39, 1 March 2013 (UTC)


I've managed to put someone in the "Maybe it has a Virus" category. I added an implementation of "neko" to an application we where working on, and the little cat following the mouse just confused a user who had never seen it before. Divad27182 (talk) 19:15, 1 March 2013 (UTC)


It's actually an Euler diagram, not a Venn diagram. --23.17.150.29 21:04, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

I looked it up and agree. I wonder if someone has told Randall. I know he would appreciate it (1053: Ten Thousand). I'm not sure whether or not to change the "a Euler diagram" to "an Euler diagram" though. --DanB (talk) 21:31, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
It's no less a Venn Diagram than it is a Euler. --Shine (talk) 05:27, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
Since Euler is pronounced "Oiler" the "an" is appropriate no matter what your thoughts are regarding it's conventions.Schmammel (talk) 03:05, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
Also, one of the most fascinating things from the Euler Wiki article was this image on a Euler diagram of traingles. --DanB (talk) 21:41, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
Actually, this IS a Venn Diagram, not an Euler diagram. In an Euler diagram, one thins is a subset of another, which in this case would suggest that either all suspected cases of computer viruses are a subset of actual computer viruses, or the reverse, which I really don't think Randall is trying to imply, or rather NOT imply by his joke. For one thing, the joke is that problems that are caused by computer viruses and problems that people suspect are caused by computer viruses should have some overlap, but don't. This does not fit with an Euler interpretation of the graph as that would say (if one of the circles was inside the other) that every time the problem is a computer virus, people always correctly identify them but also assume other non-computer virus problems are viruses - or the reverse - all problems are caused by a computer virus but only a few are identified as computer viruses. Secondly, and more importantly, in an Euler diagram one circle is always SMALLER than the other, where as in a Venn diagram they are always the SAME size. Oh, and last but not least, I'd be very surprised if Randall didn't know the difference between a Venn and an Euler diagram, since I'm sure he's had to use both many times.--7OO Tnega Terces (talk) 07:43, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
I'm citing Wikipedia: "Euler diagrams consist of simple closed curves (usually circles) in the plane that depict sets. The sizes or shapes of the curves are not important: the significance of the diagram is in how they overlap." I didn't know about this before, but I learned it because of DanB's cunning. No one knows everything, not even Mr. Munroe, and I'm sure you can use both kinds of diagrams many times without knowing their definitions. Diagram.St.nerol (talk) 18:07, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
I was about to make a post about unnecessary amounts of pedantry, but after reading both wikipedia articles, I've decided that this is exactly the kind of "Learn something new every day" material that I really liked about the old explain xkcd blog, and I'm happy that its continuing. lcarsos_a (talk) 06:32, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
I'm not so sure whether this really is a standard Venn diagram. According to quite some sources ([1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venn_diagram, section "Overview"; as well as these papers: [2] arXiv:1207.6452, [3] arXiv:math/0603068, have a look at p. 1 and pp. 1/2 respectively, also: [4] arXiv:cs/0512001, Wolfram MathWold agrees: [5] http://mathworld.wolfram.com/VennDiagram.html), a Venn diagram is "[...] a set of n [– in this case 2 – ...] closed curves [– circles –] that subdivide the plane into 2^n connected regions [...]." [3, p. 1]. So we would actually expect to see 4 regions – in a standard Venn diagram. Obviously here the intersection is supposed to be empty (yielding only three regions), making this effectively an Euler diagram, in which circles are allowed to be the same size -- why should they not (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hamilton_1881_example.jpg). Additionally, Euler diagrams are not only used to illustrate "(for all x) if A, then B" or "all A are B", but also "no A are B" etc. You might also want to have a look at this blogpost concerning Euler vs. Venn: Venn Vs Euler: The Diagrams. As this comic is titled "Virus Venn Diagram" one expects to see a classical Venn diagram, one does, however, not get to see one, but rather an Euler diagram showing very drastically that there is no intersection of the set of problems that make one think there might be a virus causing it and the set of problems actually caused by a virus. That's my amount of unnecessary pedantry for today. 89.182.242.115 12:19, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
Either way, "Virus Euler" doesn't alliterate --H (talk) 16:21, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Haha, how often do I have this conversation with my parents! They: "I think we are being hacked." Me: "?!" They: "Yeah, this morning when I started my computer, X wasn't working and now Y is acting all weird." ... Yes, of course. --83.84.33.170 08:49, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

"Defragging" is [...] an easy, user-friendly action that PC users can undertake to supposedly make their computers run faster.

Defragging rearranges the blocks of a file system to avoid skipping while reading. It's actually just for some file systems (on Linux it's done automatically) and it does make reading faster if you're using a hard drive as storage. 86.124.186.201 07:45, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Please, go ahead and fix it! Since I don't know the stuff, the risk is that I would just screw it up more! –St.nerol (talk) 10:42, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
actually, defragging is unkilling people in Quake ;-)
(SCNR) 84.197.94.196 20:29, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
Every filesystem is possible to defragment. Difference is that some filesystems need it more that others. Specifically, FAT-based filesystems needs it a lot, while filesystems like Linux's ext2, ext3 ... are allocating blocks in a way which supposedly lowers the need of defragmentation. Anyway, the main reason why Linux filesystems are not being defragmented is that there is no application for that. -- Hkmaly (talk) 11:32, 21 November 2013 (UTC)