explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

224: Lisp

2014-03-15T03:00:37Z

108.162.245.7:

{{comic
| number = 224
| date = February 16, 2007
| title = Lisp
| image = lisp.jpg
| titletext = We lost the documentation on quantum mechanics. You'll have to decode the regexes yourself.
}}

==Explanation==
{{w|Lisp (programming language)|Lisp}} is a computer programming language with highly regular syntax. The language's most notable feature is that programs take the same form as the language's primary data structure (the list). This blurs the line between code and data and permits programs to inspect and even alter their own source code, thereby opening up opportunities for metaprogramming. Lisp is also a {{w|Functional programming|functional programming language}} (more or less), meaning that programs are expressed in terms of lambda calculus, a mathematical framework for computation.

The phrase 'A suffusion of blue' is a reference to Douglas Adams' book 'The Long Dark Teatime of the Soul'. In it, an I Ching calculator calculates everything above the value of 4 is 'a suffusion of yellow'.

In the comic, Cueball marvels at the fundamental and complete nature of the language of creation that he sees in his dream. In the lisp programming language, "car" is a fundamental function which produces the first item in a list. The line "It's full of '{{w|CAR_and_CDR|car}}'s" is a pun, referring to the book {{w|2001: A Space Odyssey}} in which astronaut David Bowman accidentally activates a star gate and exclaims as he enters it "Oh my God - it's full of stars!"

Cueball's remarks about patterns, metapatterns, and the disappearance of syntax are reactions to the elegant simplicity of the lisp programming language.

God replies that the universe was actually hacked together with the programming language {{w|Perl}}. Perl employs an idiosyncratic syntax which borrows from a number of other languages. Although a versatile language often employed for assembling projects quickly (some might say "hastily"), the language has a reputation for being ugly and inelegant. It was famously described as a "Swiss-Army chainsaw", because it is very powerful but also unwieldy and unattractive.

The joke is that the Creator, like many software developers, was in a bit of a hurry and chose to throw something together rather sloppily.

The title text continues the analogy by suggesting that the theory of {{w|quantum mechanics}} was written in {{w|Regular expression|regular expressions}} ("regexes"), a complex language for pattern matching used heavily in Perl. Regular expressions are often criticized as being a {{w|write-only language}}, that is, a language so complicated that any significant program cannot be understood by anybody (often not even the original author). Documentation is essential to assist in the understanding of complex regular expressions. The title text claims that at some point, the documentation for quantum mechanics was lost, which explains why quantum mechanics is so bizarre and complex.

==Transcript==
:[Floating in space.]
:Speaker: Last night I drifted off while reading a Lisp book.
:Cueball: Huh?
:Speaker: Suddenly, I was bathed in a suffusion of blue.

:[Floating in space before a vast concept tree.]
:Speaker: At once, just like they said, I felt a great enlightenment. I saw the naked structure of Lisp code unfold before me.
:Cueball: My God
:Cueball: It's full of 'car's
:Speaker: The patterns and metapatterns danced. Syntax faded, and I swam in the purity of quantified conception. Of ideas manifest.

:[Close-up of floating in space before part of a concept tree.]
:Truly, this was the language from which the gods wrought the Universe.

:[Floating in space with God appearing through a line of butts.]
:God: No, it's not.
:Cueball: It's not?
:God: I mean, ostensibly, yes. Honestly, we hacked most of it together with Perl.

==Trivia==
*In his [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJOS0sV2a24#t=29m11s Google-speech], [[Randall]] said that he spent 3–4 hours on getting the blue shading just right.
*Comic [[208: Regular Expressions]] also references regular expressions.

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics with color]]
[[Category:Programming]]
[[Category:Religion]]

Talk:1285: Third Way

2014-02-20T04:42:17Z

108.162.245.7:

One line per sentence is reminiscent of a diagrammed/formal logic argument in philosophy. It would be a much more effective convention to help people parse and interpret content and validity of e.g. political claims. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.63.198|173.245.63.198]] 17:21, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Line break after every sentence. 
Because I can. 
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.7|108.162.245.7]] 04:41, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

ONE SPACE AFTER A PERIOD. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 04:38, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
:MY VOTE TOO!!! --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 18:36, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Writing plaintext, I always do two spaces after a sentence ending period.
This is probably because I did in fact start typing on a real typewriter.
In an environment where automatic formatting will take place, like a web page or wiki text, I use the newline.
I have had people in this wiki collapse my multiple line forms to one of the others.
(I was disappointed.)
--[[User:Divad27182|Divad27182]] ([[User talk:Divad27182|talk]]) 04:48, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

I prefer double spacing, but I used single spacing in writing the explanation, just to make people happy. Perhaps I should have used new lines. [[User:Concomitant|Concomitant]] ([[User talk:Concomitant|talk]]) 05:10, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
: I'm a double-spacer too. Am I wrong? I can't break myself of the habit, I even do it in tweets! --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 16:43, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

The 'third way' is a little underappreciated here: it divides the text into self contained logical units, and makes text processing tools (grep, diff etc.) much more usable.
Proper text rendering engines (TeX, HTML, etc.) already make this assumption and group sentences accordingly.
If only I realized this earlier, it would have made my thesis revisions much more easier.
In fact, up to this moment, I thought I was that lone guy in the comic.
EDIT: this comment in xkcd forums makes my point clear: http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=106217#p3489055
--[[Special:Contributions/141.101.96.11|141.101.96.11]] 05:42, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

:As a programmer, I find nothing weird in adapting your style to language. Writing two spaces in HTML or TeX is useless, as they won't render as two spaces anyway. (While using for this purpose nonbreakable spaces, which would render, is a crime.) -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 10:48, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
::It would also render incorrectly if the period was close to the end of a line. If the markup is [last word of sentence][period][nbsp][space][next sentence], the last word of the first sentence could end up on the next line unnecessarily. But if it's [last word of sentence][period][space][nbsp][next sentence], the next line of text would start with a space, which is much worse.--[[User:Rael|Rael]] ([[User talk:Rael|talk]]) 15:16, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

::I end my sentences with a line break, a % and another linebreak. Only after commata etc i use a single line break. Oh, and don't forget to protect the space after points used in abbreviations, not as full stops, by a backslash. Most TeX increase the length of the space after a full stop a bit. Bit question: Why don't double space people, when using Word not just use a longer space instead of a double space. Noone would have the idea to indent a paragraph or substitute a tab with a series of spaces.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.242.117|108.162.242.117]] 03:11, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
:::Because the keyboard does not contain a longer space key.--[[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.188|173.245.52.188]] 18:13, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

I always just find and replace double space with single space. If formatting suffers, someone did a bad job.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.231.228|108.162.231.228]] 06:33, 1 November 2013 (UTC) Synthetica

I always just find and replace single space with double space. If formatting suffers, someone did a bad job.--[[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.188|173.245.52.188]] 18:13, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

So, why did double spacing after a period ever exist? It doesn't seem necessary. [[User:PheagleAdler|PheagleAdler]] ([[User talk:PheagleAdler|talk]]) 07:31, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
:Here's the standard explanation: on typewriters, each character takes up the same amount of space. So a lower-case "i" takes up the same amount of space as a capital "M". This is called a monospace font. When typing, if you just put a single space after the end of period ending a sentence, the reader doesn't necessarily get the sense that a new sentence has started. This is particularly true if you were typing in all caps, as might be common on some types of forms or documents. Two spaces, however, does the job nicely. In theory, with modern proportional-width fonts, this is unnecessary. [[User:Rylon|Rylon]] ([[User talk:Rylon|talk]]) 23:36, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

even though i learned typing on a typewriter, to this day i had never heard of the double space thing. maybe it's a US only thing, like the stupid french with spaces BEFORE punctuation marks. [[User:Peter|Peter]] ([[User talk:Peter|talk]]) 07:54, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
:I've always taken the double-space thing as a US thing. Some editors like emacs default to it, which is really annoying. That said, as a frenchman, the "space before punctuation" is normal to me and it is part of the ''codified'' typography -- and I think this is actually an important distinction to make. Is this double-space vs single-space something codified somehow? As a last word, I need to be nitpicky: the exact French typography rule is "a space before punctuation made of two parts (namely colon, semi-colon, exclamation/question mark) and no space before punctuation made of a single part (dots, commas.)" It's a very deterministic rule that is easy to apply (whether one agrees to it or not.) [[User:Ralfoide|Ralfoide]] ([[User talk:Ralfoide|talk]]) 16:40, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
::This is a common question from the French and some other nationals. The answer is that English does not work that way. There is no official codified version. The most you have is small pockets of codification within an organization, such as The University of Boulder, or UPI or the US Army. If you're working in or with such an organization you should use their standard. If you try to extend any such standard to the rest of the world you are a nasty egomanical control freak who should be chopped into pieces and fed to the fishes.--[[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.188|173.245.52.188]] 18:25, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

As a german typographer I have to say I’m ''shocked''! ''Two'' spaces per period? A space ''before'' punctuation?! My scientific opinion: you all are completely crazy ;-) (Just kidding, but seriously, two spaces? In Germany, the first possibility to do that safely is your last will …) [[User:Quoti|Quoti]] ([[User talk:Quoti|talk]]) 10:34, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

The doubled spaces appear in my browser's tooltips. (Maybe someone should add some non breaking spaces to the quotation of the tooltip text?) --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.236|141.101.98.236]] 10:45, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

As a(n automatic) two-spacer person (just you watch, I'll use 'em here, despite it obviously not being rendered), it's just what I learnt, back in the '70s, here in the UK. I've no idea ''why'' I learnt it. However, it may stem from the same root as the 'rule' in handwriting (not biros, but nibbed pens dipped in ink... wow, I feel old, but it ''was'' at primary school) that we use a gap as big as our our (very little) little-fingers to separate sentences. I imagine differentiating full-stops (US: periods) from commas in the messy medium of ink might be a valuable visual indicator as to what a given smudge might ''actually'' be. So, anyway, double-spacing. On the other hand I should report that, "I've dropped the habit it of appropriate punctuation prior to quotes," I say, "despite being the way I learnt it." And instead I will drop "<- Commas from that sort of position," you see, "even through I'll keep the ones that are semantic pauses." You see how my standards are slipping? Anyway, good comic. We now return you to your regularly-scheduled programme.  [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.214|141.101.98.214]] 14:44, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

:I'm in the same boat this this bloke. I don't get the typewriter tie in. I seem to recall being taught to use a finger gage correct gap of whitespace to leave between the end of one sentence and the beginning of the next. This was in an American small town southern school in the early 1980s. I assume it was for readability. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.236.25|108.162.236.25]] 16:16, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

The "third way" is used for articles on the [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news BBC News] website :-) --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.233|141.101.99.233]] 14:52, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
:Actually, they put each sentence into a paragraph of its own, which is yet different. (In HTML: <code>... .</code> vs. <code>... . </code>) --[[User:Das-g|Das-g]] ([[User talk:Das-g|talk]]) 16:07, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
:That's what I came here to say, that the Third Way is common-place on the web today, it is the tabloid style. This headline article http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24775846 off the BBC right now only has full-stops (periods in en-US) before paragraph breaks, apart from quotations (ie what the BBC did not write). [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.229|141.101.98.229]] 16:11, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
:The BBC is not the only web site to do that - and it is '''so''' annoying. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.222.244|108.162.222.244]] 10:15, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

There's a FOURTH way! I receive a "Weekly Update from Senator Tim Scott" HTML formatted email about once a week (unsurprisingly) which, in lieu of spaces between words, uses a carriage return and a linefeed. This alleviates the question of how many spaces between sentences completely! It also renders as oneverylongword in my email client. Ie: <blockquote>Thankyouforsubscribingtomye-newsletter.</blockquote> [[Special:Contributions/108.162.236.25|108.162.236.25]] 16:16, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
: And a fifth: In France, they use one whitespace before and after double punctions (:;?!) but only one whitespace after single punctuation (.,). --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.79.25|141.101.79.25]] 20:15, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

I think the finger space was to help kids create clear separation while developing their proficiency at penmanship.
I think the 2x space is a fall out from the fixed width formatting of typewriters to help assist the reader (or proof reader) with the start and end of a sentence.
Double spacing has almost become OCD for me. I can't help it. Of course I also leave paragraph marks on while I type as well. I wonder if the French would require a space before a double quote, "The author ponders. "

I think we could improve old school cryptography if we just used carriage returns and ignored the 'new' line.
I might be able to accept and adopt the single space rule if I can make my spaces default to twice the point size of every other character in the style.
[[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.186|199.27.128.186]] 19:00, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
:FOROL DSCHO OLCRY PTOGR APHYT AKEYO URCUE FROME NIGMA DECOD ESAND ARRAN GEEVE RYTHI NGING ROUPS OFFIV EWITH OUT''AN Y''PUNC TUAT IONAN DINAL LCAPS  [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.214|141.101.98.214]] 01:38, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

I have my word processor set to a a gap equal to one and a half spaces after a sentence ends[[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.198|173.245.52.198]] 19:05, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

New paragraph (TWO line brakes) after every sentence :-) --[[User:Sten|Sten]] ([[User talk:Sten|talk]]) 20:36, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

I love how the explanation uses the third method. Nice touch. [[User:JRDeBo|JRDeBo]] ([[User talk:JRDeBo|talk]]) 23:29, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Does anyone think there's any significance to the sword and the spear? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.208.144|108.162.208.144]] 23:46, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
:Yes, because this is a SERIOUS ISSUE. [[User:Alpha|Alpha]] ([[User talk:Alpha|talk]]) 06:35, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
:A sword has a longer blade, while a spear keeps people further away. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.210|108.162.219.210]] 12:45, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

According to the [[http://fireemblemwiki.org/Weapon_triangle Fire Emblem weapon triangle]], the 1-spacers win against the 2-spacers. Then again, I put one space after each sentence. [[User:Greyson|Greyson]] ([[User talk:Greyson|talk]]) 18:25, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Picture of a cat after every full stop !!! {{unsigned ip|173.245.51.221}}

With all the whitespace compression and variable width fonts in modern technology switching back to 2-space is as viable as switching over to localized Programmer Dvorak. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.231.18|108.162.231.18]] 13:44, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Talk:1285: Third Way

2014-02-20T04:41:57Z

108.162.245.7:

One line per sentence is reminiscent of a diagrammed/formal logic argument in philosophy. It would be a much more effective convention to help people parse and interpret content and validity of e.g. political claims. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.63.198|173.245.63.198]] 17:21, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Line break after every sentence. 
Because I can.
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.7|108.162.245.7]] 04:41, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

ONE SPACE AFTER A PERIOD. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 04:38, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
:MY VOTE TOO!!! --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 18:36, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Writing plaintext, I always do two spaces after a sentence ending period.
This is probably because I did in fact start typing on a real typewriter.
In an environment where automatic formatting will take place, like a web page or wiki text, I use the newline.
I have had people in this wiki collapse my multiple line forms to one of the others.
(I was disappointed.)
--[[User:Divad27182|Divad27182]] ([[User talk:Divad27182|talk]]) 04:48, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

I prefer double spacing, but I used single spacing in writing the explanation, just to make people happy. Perhaps I should have used new lines. [[User:Concomitant|Concomitant]] ([[User talk:Concomitant|talk]]) 05:10, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
: I'm a double-spacer too. Am I wrong? I can't break myself of the habit, I even do it in tweets! --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 16:43, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

The 'third way' is a little underappreciated here: it divides the text into self contained logical units, and makes text processing tools (grep, diff etc.) much more usable.
Proper text rendering engines (TeX, HTML, etc.) already make this assumption and group sentences accordingly.
If only I realized this earlier, it would have made my thesis revisions much more easier.
In fact, up to this moment, I thought I was that lone guy in the comic.
EDIT: this comment in xkcd forums makes my point clear: http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=106217#p3489055
--[[Special:Contributions/141.101.96.11|141.101.96.11]] 05:42, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

:As a programmer, I find nothing weird in adapting your style to language. Writing two spaces in HTML or TeX is useless, as they won't render as two spaces anyway. (While using for this purpose nonbreakable spaces, which would render, is a crime.) -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 10:48, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
::It would also render incorrectly if the period was close to the end of a line. If the markup is [last word of sentence][period][nbsp][space][next sentence], the last word of the first sentence could end up on the next line unnecessarily. But if it's [last word of sentence][period][space][nbsp][next sentence], the next line of text would start with a space, which is much worse.--[[User:Rael|Rael]] ([[User talk:Rael|talk]]) 15:16, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

::I end my sentences with a line break, a % and another linebreak. Only after commata etc i use a single line break. Oh, and don't forget to protect the space after points used in abbreviations, not as full stops, by a backslash. Most TeX increase the length of the space after a full stop a bit. Bit question: Why don't double space people, when using Word not just use a longer space instead of a double space. Noone would have the idea to indent a paragraph or substitute a tab with a series of spaces.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.242.117|108.162.242.117]] 03:11, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
:::Because the keyboard does not contain a longer space key.--[[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.188|173.245.52.188]] 18:13, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

I always just find and replace double space with single space. If formatting suffers, someone did a bad job.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.231.228|108.162.231.228]] 06:33, 1 November 2013 (UTC) Synthetica

I always just find and replace single space with double space. If formatting suffers, someone did a bad job.--[[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.188|173.245.52.188]] 18:13, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

So, why did double spacing after a period ever exist? It doesn't seem necessary. [[User:PheagleAdler|PheagleAdler]] ([[User talk:PheagleAdler|talk]]) 07:31, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
:Here's the standard explanation: on typewriters, each character takes up the same amount of space. So a lower-case "i" takes up the same amount of space as a capital "M". This is called a monospace font. When typing, if you just put a single space after the end of period ending a sentence, the reader doesn't necessarily get the sense that a new sentence has started. This is particularly true if you were typing in all caps, as might be common on some types of forms or documents. Two spaces, however, does the job nicely. In theory, with modern proportional-width fonts, this is unnecessary. [[User:Rylon|Rylon]] ([[User talk:Rylon|talk]]) 23:36, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

even though i learned typing on a typewriter, to this day i had never heard of the double space thing. maybe it's a US only thing, like the stupid french with spaces BEFORE punctuation marks. [[User:Peter|Peter]] ([[User talk:Peter|talk]]) 07:54, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
:I've always taken the double-space thing as a US thing. Some editors like emacs default to it, which is really annoying. That said, as a frenchman, the "space before punctuation" is normal to me and it is part of the ''codified'' typography -- and I think this is actually an important distinction to make. Is this double-space vs single-space something codified somehow? As a last word, I need to be nitpicky: the exact French typography rule is "a space before punctuation made of two parts (namely colon, semi-colon, exclamation/question mark) and no space before punctuation made of a single part (dots, commas.)" It's a very deterministic rule that is easy to apply (whether one agrees to it or not.) [[User:Ralfoide|Ralfoide]] ([[User talk:Ralfoide|talk]]) 16:40, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
::This is a common question from the French and some other nationals. The answer is that English does not work that way. There is no official codified version. The most you have is small pockets of codification within an organization, such as The University of Boulder, or UPI or the US Army. If you're working in or with such an organization you should use their standard. If you try to extend any such standard to the rest of the world you are a nasty egomanical control freak who should be chopped into pieces and fed to the fishes.--[[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.188|173.245.52.188]] 18:25, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

As a german typographer I have to say I’m ''shocked''! ''Two'' spaces per period? A space ''before'' punctuation?! My scientific opinion: you all are completely crazy ;-) (Just kidding, but seriously, two spaces? In Germany, the first possibility to do that safely is your last will …) [[User:Quoti|Quoti]] ([[User talk:Quoti|talk]]) 10:34, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

The doubled spaces appear in my browser's tooltips. (Maybe someone should add some non breaking spaces to the quotation of the tooltip text?) --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.236|141.101.98.236]] 10:45, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

As a(n automatic) two-spacer person (just you watch, I'll use 'em here, despite it obviously not being rendered), it's just what I learnt, back in the '70s, here in the UK. I've no idea ''why'' I learnt it. However, it may stem from the same root as the 'rule' in handwriting (not biros, but nibbed pens dipped in ink... wow, I feel old, but it ''was'' at primary school) that we use a gap as big as our our (very little) little-fingers to separate sentences. I imagine differentiating full-stops (US: periods) from commas in the messy medium of ink might be a valuable visual indicator as to what a given smudge might ''actually'' be. So, anyway, double-spacing. On the other hand I should report that, "I've dropped the habit it of appropriate punctuation prior to quotes," I say, "despite being the way I learnt it." And instead I will drop "<- Commas from that sort of position," you see, "even through I'll keep the ones that are semantic pauses." You see how my standards are slipping? Anyway, good comic. We now return you to your regularly-scheduled programme.  [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.214|141.101.98.214]] 14:44, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

:I'm in the same boat this this bloke. I don't get the typewriter tie in. I seem to recall being taught to use a finger gage correct gap of whitespace to leave between the end of one sentence and the beginning of the next. This was in an American small town southern school in the early 1980s. I assume it was for readability. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.236.25|108.162.236.25]] 16:16, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

The "third way" is used for articles on the [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news BBC News] website :-) --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.233|141.101.99.233]] 14:52, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
:Actually, they put each sentence into a paragraph of its own, which is yet different. (In HTML: <code>... .</code> vs. <code>... . </code>) --[[User:Das-g|Das-g]] ([[User talk:Das-g|talk]]) 16:07, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
:That's what I came here to say, that the Third Way is common-place on the web today, it is the tabloid style. This headline article http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24775846 off the BBC right now only has full-stops (periods in en-US) before paragraph breaks, apart from quotations (ie what the BBC did not write). [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.229|141.101.98.229]] 16:11, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
:The BBC is not the only web site to do that - and it is '''so''' annoying. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.222.244|108.162.222.244]] 10:15, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

There's a FOURTH way! I receive a "Weekly Update from Senator Tim Scott" HTML formatted email about once a week (unsurprisingly) which, in lieu of spaces between words, uses a carriage return and a linefeed. This alleviates the question of how many spaces between sentences completely! It also renders as oneverylongword in my email client. Ie: <blockquote>Thankyouforsubscribingtomye-newsletter.</blockquote> [[Special:Contributions/108.162.236.25|108.162.236.25]] 16:16, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
: And a fifth: In France, they use one whitespace before and after double punctions (:;?!) but only one whitespace after single punctuation (.,). --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.79.25|141.101.79.25]] 20:15, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

I think the finger space was to help kids create clear separation while developing their proficiency at penmanship.
I think the 2x space is a fall out from the fixed width formatting of typewriters to help assist the reader (or proof reader) with the start and end of a sentence.
Double spacing has almost become OCD for me. I can't help it. Of course I also leave paragraph marks on while I type as well. I wonder if the French would require a space before a double quote, "The author ponders. "

I think we could improve old school cryptography if we just used carriage returns and ignored the 'new' line.
I might be able to accept and adopt the single space rule if I can make my spaces default to twice the point size of every other character in the style.
[[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.186|199.27.128.186]] 19:00, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
:FOROL DSCHO OLCRY PTOGR APHYT AKEYO URCUE FROME NIGMA DECOD ESAND ARRAN GEEVE RYTHI NGING ROUPS OFFIV EWITH OUT''AN Y''PUNC TUAT IONAN DINAL LCAPS  [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.214|141.101.98.214]] 01:38, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

I have my word processor set to a a gap equal to one and a half spaces after a sentence ends[[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.198|173.245.52.198]] 19:05, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

New paragraph (TWO line brakes) after every sentence :-) --[[User:Sten|Sten]] ([[User talk:Sten|talk]]) 20:36, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

I love how the explanation uses the third method. Nice touch. [[User:JRDeBo|JRDeBo]] ([[User talk:JRDeBo|talk]]) 23:29, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Does anyone think there's any significance to the sword and the spear? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.208.144|108.162.208.144]] 23:46, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
:Yes, because this is a SERIOUS ISSUE. [[User:Alpha|Alpha]] ([[User talk:Alpha|talk]]) 06:35, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
:A sword has a longer blade, while a spear keeps people further away. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.210|108.162.219.210]] 12:45, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

According to the [[http://fireemblemwiki.org/Weapon_triangle Fire Emblem weapon triangle]], the 1-spacers win against the 2-spacers. Then again, I put one space after each sentence. [[User:Greyson|Greyson]] ([[User talk:Greyson|talk]]) 18:25, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Picture of a cat after every full stop !!! {{unsigned ip|173.245.51.221}}

With all the whitespace compression and variable width fonts in modern technology switching back to 2-space is as viable as switching over to localized Programmer Dvorak. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.231.18|108.162.231.18]] 13:44, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Talk:1285: Third Way

2014-02-20T04:41:32Z

108.162.245.7:

One line per sentence is reminiscent of a diagrammed/formal logic argument in philosophy. It would be a much more effective convention to help people parse and interpret content and validity of e.g. political claims. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.63.198|173.245.63.198]] 17:21, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Line break after every sentence.
Because I can.
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.7|108.162.245.7]] 04:41, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

ONE SPACE AFTER A PERIOD. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 04:38, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
:MY VOTE TOO!!! --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 18:36, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Writing plaintext, I always do two spaces after a sentence ending period.
This is probably because I did in fact start typing on a real typewriter.
In an environment where automatic formatting will take place, like a web page or wiki text, I use the newline.
I have had people in this wiki collapse my multiple line forms to one of the others.
(I was disappointed.)
--[[User:Divad27182|Divad27182]] ([[User talk:Divad27182|talk]]) 04:48, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

I prefer double spacing, but I used single spacing in writing the explanation, just to make people happy. Perhaps I should have used new lines. [[User:Concomitant|Concomitant]] ([[User talk:Concomitant|talk]]) 05:10, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
: I'm a double-spacer too. Am I wrong? I can't break myself of the habit, I even do it in tweets! --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 16:43, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

The 'third way' is a little underappreciated here: it divides the text into self contained logical units, and makes text processing tools (grep, diff etc.) much more usable.
Proper text rendering engines (TeX, HTML, etc.) already make this assumption and group sentences accordingly.
If only I realized this earlier, it would have made my thesis revisions much more easier.
In fact, up to this moment, I thought I was that lone guy in the comic.
EDIT: this comment in xkcd forums makes my point clear: http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=106217#p3489055
--[[Special:Contributions/141.101.96.11|141.101.96.11]] 05:42, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

:As a programmer, I find nothing weird in adapting your style to language. Writing two spaces in HTML or TeX is useless, as they won't render as two spaces anyway. (While using for this purpose nonbreakable spaces, which would render, is a crime.) -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 10:48, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
::It would also render incorrectly if the period was close to the end of a line. If the markup is [last word of sentence][period][nbsp][space][next sentence], the last word of the first sentence could end up on the next line unnecessarily. But if it's [last word of sentence][period][space][nbsp][next sentence], the next line of text would start with a space, which is much worse.--[[User:Rael|Rael]] ([[User talk:Rael|talk]]) 15:16, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

::I end my sentences with a line break, a % and another linebreak. Only after commata etc i use a single line break. Oh, and don't forget to protect the space after points used in abbreviations, not as full stops, by a backslash. Most TeX increase the length of the space after a full stop a bit. Bit question: Why don't double space people, when using Word not just use a longer space instead of a double space. Noone would have the idea to indent a paragraph or substitute a tab with a series of spaces.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.242.117|108.162.242.117]] 03:11, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
:::Because the keyboard does not contain a longer space key.--[[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.188|173.245.52.188]] 18:13, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

I always just find and replace double space with single space. If formatting suffers, someone did a bad job.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.231.228|108.162.231.228]] 06:33, 1 November 2013 (UTC) Synthetica

I always just find and replace single space with double space. If formatting suffers, someone did a bad job.--[[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.188|173.245.52.188]] 18:13, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

So, why did double spacing after a period ever exist? It doesn't seem necessary. [[User:PheagleAdler|PheagleAdler]] ([[User talk:PheagleAdler|talk]]) 07:31, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
:Here's the standard explanation: on typewriters, each character takes up the same amount of space. So a lower-case "i" takes up the same amount of space as a capital "M". This is called a monospace font. When typing, if you just put a single space after the end of period ending a sentence, the reader doesn't necessarily get the sense that a new sentence has started. This is particularly true if you were typing in all caps, as might be common on some types of forms or documents. Two spaces, however, does the job nicely. In theory, with modern proportional-width fonts, this is unnecessary. [[User:Rylon|Rylon]] ([[User talk:Rylon|talk]]) 23:36, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

even though i learned typing on a typewriter, to this day i had never heard of the double space thing. maybe it's a US only thing, like the stupid french with spaces BEFORE punctuation marks. [[User:Peter|Peter]] ([[User talk:Peter|talk]]) 07:54, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
:I've always taken the double-space thing as a US thing. Some editors like emacs default to it, which is really annoying. That said, as a frenchman, the "space before punctuation" is normal to me and it is part of the ''codified'' typography -- and I think this is actually an important distinction to make. Is this double-space vs single-space something codified somehow? As a last word, I need to be nitpicky: the exact French typography rule is "a space before punctuation made of two parts (namely colon, semi-colon, exclamation/question mark) and no space before punctuation made of a single part (dots, commas.)" It's a very deterministic rule that is easy to apply (whether one agrees to it or not.) [[User:Ralfoide|Ralfoide]] ([[User talk:Ralfoide|talk]]) 16:40, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
::This is a common question from the French and some other nationals. The answer is that English does not work that way. There is no official codified version. The most you have is small pockets of codification within an organization, such as The University of Boulder, or UPI or the US Army. If you're working in or with such an organization you should use their standard. If you try to extend any such standard to the rest of the world you are a nasty egomanical control freak who should be chopped into pieces and fed to the fishes.--[[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.188|173.245.52.188]] 18:25, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

As a german typographer I have to say I’m ''shocked''! ''Two'' spaces per period? A space ''before'' punctuation?! My scientific opinion: you all are completely crazy ;-) (Just kidding, but seriously, two spaces? In Germany, the first possibility to do that safely is your last will …) [[User:Quoti|Quoti]] ([[User talk:Quoti|talk]]) 10:34, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

The doubled spaces appear in my browser's tooltips. (Maybe someone should add some non breaking spaces to the quotation of the tooltip text?) --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.236|141.101.98.236]] 10:45, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

As a(n automatic) two-spacer person (just you watch, I'll use 'em here, despite it obviously not being rendered), it's just what I learnt, back in the '70s, here in the UK. I've no idea ''why'' I learnt it. However, it may stem from the same root as the 'rule' in handwriting (not biros, but nibbed pens dipped in ink... wow, I feel old, but it ''was'' at primary school) that we use a gap as big as our our (very little) little-fingers to separate sentences. I imagine differentiating full-stops (US: periods) from commas in the messy medium of ink might be a valuable visual indicator as to what a given smudge might ''actually'' be. So, anyway, double-spacing. On the other hand I should report that, "I've dropped the habit it of appropriate punctuation prior to quotes," I say, "despite being the way I learnt it." And instead I will drop "<- Commas from that sort of position," you see, "even through I'll keep the ones that are semantic pauses." You see how my standards are slipping? Anyway, good comic. We now return you to your regularly-scheduled programme.  [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.214|141.101.98.214]] 14:44, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

:I'm in the same boat this this bloke. I don't get the typewriter tie in. I seem to recall being taught to use a finger gage correct gap of whitespace to leave between the end of one sentence and the beginning of the next. This was in an American small town southern school in the early 1980s. I assume it was for readability. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.236.25|108.162.236.25]] 16:16, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

The "third way" is used for articles on the [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news BBC News] website :-) --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.233|141.101.99.233]] 14:52, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
:Actually, they put each sentence into a paragraph of its own, which is yet different. (In HTML: <code>... .</code> vs. <code>... . </code>) --[[User:Das-g|Das-g]] ([[User talk:Das-g|talk]]) 16:07, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
:That's what I came here to say, that the Third Way is common-place on the web today, it is the tabloid style. This headline article http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24775846 off the BBC right now only has full-stops (periods in en-US) before paragraph breaks, apart from quotations (ie what the BBC did not write). [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.229|141.101.98.229]] 16:11, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
:The BBC is not the only web site to do that - and it is '''so''' annoying. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.222.244|108.162.222.244]] 10:15, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

There's a FOURTH way! I receive a "Weekly Update from Senator Tim Scott" HTML formatted email about once a week (unsurprisingly) which, in lieu of spaces between words, uses a carriage return and a linefeed. This alleviates the question of how many spaces between sentences completely! It also renders as oneverylongword in my email client. Ie: <blockquote>Thankyouforsubscribingtomye-newsletter.</blockquote> [[Special:Contributions/108.162.236.25|108.162.236.25]] 16:16, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
: And a fifth: In France, they use one whitespace before and after double punctions (:;?!) but only one whitespace after single punctuation (.,). --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.79.25|141.101.79.25]] 20:15, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

I think the finger space was to help kids create clear separation while developing their proficiency at penmanship.
I think the 2x space is a fall out from the fixed width formatting of typewriters to help assist the reader (or proof reader) with the start and end of a sentence.
Double spacing has almost become OCD for me. I can't help it. Of course I also leave paragraph marks on while I type as well. I wonder if the French would require a space before a double quote, "The author ponders. "

I think we could improve old school cryptography if we just used carriage returns and ignored the 'new' line.
I might be able to accept and adopt the single space rule if I can make my spaces default to twice the point size of every other character in the style.
[[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.186|199.27.128.186]] 19:00, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
:FOROL DSCHO OLCRY PTOGR APHYT AKEYO URCUE FROME NIGMA DECOD ESAND ARRAN GEEVE RYTHI NGING ROUPS OFFIV EWITH OUT''AN Y''PUNC TUAT IONAN DINAL LCAPS  [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.214|141.101.98.214]] 01:38, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

I have my word processor set to a a gap equal to one and a half spaces after a sentence ends[[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.198|173.245.52.198]] 19:05, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

New paragraph (TWO line brakes) after every sentence :-) --[[User:Sten|Sten]] ([[User talk:Sten|talk]]) 20:36, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

I love how the explanation uses the third method. Nice touch. [[User:JRDeBo|JRDeBo]] ([[User talk:JRDeBo|talk]]) 23:29, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Does anyone think there's any significance to the sword and the spear? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.208.144|108.162.208.144]] 23:46, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
:Yes, because this is a SERIOUS ISSUE. [[User:Alpha|Alpha]] ([[User talk:Alpha|talk]]) 06:35, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
:A sword has a longer blade, while a spear keeps people further away. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.210|108.162.219.210]] 12:45, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

According to the [[http://fireemblemwiki.org/Weapon_triangle Fire Emblem weapon triangle]], the 1-spacers win against the 2-spacers. Then again, I put one space after each sentence. [[User:Greyson|Greyson]] ([[User talk:Greyson|talk]]) 18:25, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Picture of a cat after every full stop !!! {{unsigned ip|173.245.51.221}}

With all the whitespace compression and variable width fonts in modern technology switching back to 2-space is as viable as switching over to localized Programmer Dvorak. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.231.18|108.162.231.18]] 13:44, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Talk:1321: Cold

2014-02-09T14:22:30Z

108.162.245.7:

I really hate when articles on science get a POV tag. Science isn't politics (hint: evolution and gravity aren't POV either). Related to the comic, I just had a similar rant on Facebook in the last week or two where I linked to [http://www.skepticalscience.com/print.php?r=54 this article] when someone said it was too cold for Global Warming. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.64|108.162.237.64]] 12:24, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
:Actually evolution ''is'' a POV. For a start, it absolutely depends on the non-scientific assumption/philosophy/belief that there is nothing other than the material universe. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.222.227|108.162.222.227]] 01:59, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
::Why do you think evolution depends on such a thing? In other words, if there were anything other than the material universe, why would that rule out evolution? [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.66|199.27.128.66]] 17:01, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
I really hate it when people think the global warming scam is science, when it really is nothing more than politics masquerading as science. The IPCC has been proven to be a bunch of liars, and really there's nothing left but a bunch of whining left-wing lunatics who are desperately clinging to their hope of continuing to use this lie to raise energy prices/taxes. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.17|108.162.219.17]] 12:55, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
:Well you're wrong, and apparently delusionally paranoid about what the political left wants, but the bigger question is why is this in a wiki discussion page? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.117|108.162.249.117]] 13:21, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
::No, ''you'' are wrong, and still buying into the AGW myth that has been proven false (IPCC and others were basically caught lying). Why is this in a wiki discussion page? Well, apparently Randall has decided to use his webcomic as a vehicle to promote a left-wing agenda, so discussion of it here is totally legit. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.17|108.162.219.17]] 14:03, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
:::I think the most important words there are "his comic", so it's his call on what he writes. Also, honestly, the idea that climate change is a scam to control energy prices is pretty absurd.[[User:Pennpenn|Pennpenn]] ([[User talk:Pennpenn|talk]]) 13:39, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
::::Also, I thought it was well-known that Randall was a liberal. He's made it pretty clear in the past which side of the fence he's on politically. But that's beside the point, and I agree with 108.162.249.117: You honestly would have to deliberately choose to ignore the whole of the scientific community to believe that the concept of climate change is some sort of political scam. It really isn't - you can see evidence of it everywhere, if only you were to open your eyes and take a look around you. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.120|108.162.246.120]] 01:38, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::Evidence of what? That's what makes insistence so irrational and, when pushing policy, dangerous. With a millionth of geologic time in empirical evidence and tons of extrapolation, you've got daisy-chained assumptions all the way to end-times superstition. It's downright medieval. If the "scientific community" actually speculated that warming might lengthen growing seasons, expand habitability and bring other benefits, the effort might look somewhat objective. But instead, the only understanding of warming is ineluctable catastrophe straight out of a Hollywood screenplay. Seriously, step back and contemplate how insane that is. Every five years someone claims the world has five years left. Actually, I'd say "it was five years ago people claimed hurricane intensity would increase because reasons," but it was nine years ago, and nothing happened. Well, intensity dropped. And yet, ironically, like the characters in this strip, people desperate to believe in a meteorological eschatology will seize at anything -- anything at all -- to threaten and shame others for not accepting that industry means carbon dioxide means temperature change means ??? means doom. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.86|108.162.221.86]] 23:50, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

:::Amongst other falsehoods 108.162.219.17 tells this science denier whopper: "the AGW myth that has been proven false (IPCC and others were basically caught lying)." It is you who is telling lies 108.162.219.17 - wittingly or otherwise. But hey if you disagree then tell us exactly how, in your mind, AGW Theory has been "proven false". {{unsigned ip|199.27.128.124}}

Although it doesn't directly mention it, this is partly related to people's confusion over the difference between 'weather' and 'climate' - the former being what the conditions are at a given moment in time, and the latter referring to long-term trends.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.228|141.101.98.228]] 14:52, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

I think the one with whit wolly hat is whitehat [[User:Halfhat|Halfhat]] ([[User talk:Halfhat|talk]]) 16:10, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Can anyone provide an exact URL for (or procedure for finding) the data shown in the upper-right panel? --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.71|108.162.221.71]] 18:00, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Randall has cherry picked data for his conclusion and the graph in the comic. The full history is available from the NWS. The one for my home town can be found here http://www.erh.noaa.gov/iln/climo/below0.php The 1970's were unusually cold, which makes the present seem warmer by comparison. --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.210.254|108.162.210.254]] 16:33, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
:All of those show a dropoff in frequency of below-zero temps since the 90s. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.66|199.27.128.66]] 17:08, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Apparently Randall hasn’t seen this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/All_palaeotemps.png
:No, that's not at all apparent. Perhaps he has. But the character in the white hat doesn't have a memory going back that far, so it isn't relevant. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.66|199.27.128.66]] 17:08, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

To quote Michael Z. Williamson:
29 years in the last century is not an "average" of the last 300 million years.

Any finding based on that "average" is complete bullshit. You may as well use 1300-1305 hours on Apr 23 as your "average." You'll be about as accurate, and save time over actual data collection. {{unsigned ip|173.245.55.67}}

The claim that 0 Fahrenheit / -17 Celsius is ''really fucking cold'' is supported by [[526: Converting to Metric]]. [[User:Fryhole|Fryhole]] ([[User talk:Fryhole|talk]]) 00:41, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
:We've been getting some ball-chilling winter with the cold fronts suddenly appearing in Florida, which is a drastic change from the sweaty weather just last week. I've added "fuckfuckfuckcold" to my personal lexicon. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.64|108.162.237.64]] 04:16, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Is that possibly WHITE HAT not CUEBALL (except for the last panel)? {{unsigned ip|108.162.240.18}}

The one in black is not black hat.
He sits around memorising weather data, and lack malice. [[User:Halfhat|Halfhat]] ([[User talk:Halfhat|talk]]) 18:29, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Can anyone provide an exact URL for (or procedure for finding) the data shown in the upper-right panel? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.71|108.162.221.71]] 18:00, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

;rcc-acis.org/climatecentral

The source [http://rcc-acis.org/climatecentral rcc-acis.org/climatecentral] provided by Randall doesn't work. What's wrong? --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 21:30, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
:The source quoted on [http://xkcd.com/1321/ xkcd] is no long a URL, but simply "'rcc-acis/climatecentral'" [[User:Boxy|Boxy]] ([[User talk:Boxy|talk]]) 03:07, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
::ClimateCentral made some graphs based on rcc-acis data for a few dozen cities. Here is the link [http://www.climatecentral.org/news/extreme-cold-events-in-a-climate-context-16931#cities In Much of U.S., Extreme Cold is Becoming More Rare][[User:Jamesprescott|Jamesprescott]] ([[User talk:Jamesprescott|talk]]) 19:16, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Oh Dear. I can't believe what I'm reading. Either you guys are being ironic or Randall needs to expand his comic to encompass some of you.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.235|141.101.99.235]] 09:00, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
I'm really surprised that so many people could love xkcd (apparently) but also hate science. {{unsigned ip|108.162.238.197}}

:Despite missing links in evolution tree and missing {{w|Quantum gravity}} theory, we know much more about both that about the climate. Climate politics isn't actually based on science, as scientists failed to produce results fast enough. I would really like to see science result on global warming, but with the amount of money at stake, I don't believe I can. Maybe later. Also, it's a pity that the global warming discussion shadowed REAL ecologic problems. I don't need global warming to see that burning fosil fuels is bad idea. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 01:25, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
::Not quite so fast, there. '''Can you tell me anything you know about evolution, any one thing that is true? I tried that question on the geology staff at the Field Museum of Natural History and the only answer I got was silence. I tried it on the members of the Evolutionary Morphology Seminar in the University of Chicago, a very prestigious body of evolutionists, and all I got there was silence for a long time and eventually one person said, "I do know one thing -- it ought not to be taught in high school".' Dr. Colin Patterson (Senior Paleontologist, British Museum of Natural History, London). Keynote address at the American Museum of Natural History, New York City, November 5, 1981.'' [[Special:Contributions/108.162.222.227|108.162.222.227]] 01:59, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

::To those of you who claim climate change is a scam: Have you ever actually looked at any one of the hundreds, perhaps thousands, of science papers, studies, documentaries and photo comparisons done on the polar ice caps and mountain glaciers around the world? Have you ever looked at the Great Barrier Reef off the east coast of Australia? Are you even aware that drastic and very sudden changes have happened to these things in just the last 20 years? (And in the case of the Reef, the two major bleaching events in 1998 and 2002 occurred over just a few DAYS each.) These are things that existed, mostly unchanged, for thousands of years and are suddenly disappearing or being damaged beyond repair. The evidence is overwhelming. I have a really hard time believing that anyone can be faced with such extreme evidence and choose to just plug their ears and go "LA LA LA, LIBERAL LIES" like you morons are doing. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.120|108.162.246.120]] 01:47, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
:::(To be frank, the people I'm referring to here sound like they came from this comic: http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/258:_Conspiracy_Theories ). [[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.120|108.162.246.120]] 01:56, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

:::You said it yourself. "Climate change". I agree that anyone denying the climate is changing is ... how did you said it ... moron. What I'm challenging is the belief that if we tax production of carbon dioxide (or implement some other of plans "against global warming"), the climate will change back. There's nothing scientific on that. Especially considering how low is chance that any taxing would actually lower amount of carbon dioxide produced globally ... usually, it only causes businesses to relocate. Another thing I'm challenging is the "unprecedented" bit often used by global warming proponents. Geologically speaking, climate changes happens often ... and scientists have very little or no data on previous changes. What is few thousands of years in history of Earth? (And in fact, we don't even have data for those thousands of years. We have data for few last hundreds top.) -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 10:37, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
::::Okay, it wasn't clear earlier that your point was about USING climate-change as a means to scare people into paying taxes, etc. I saw often-repeated arguments that climate-change ITSELF is a myth and a political football - that there's no proof it's happening. I can understand questioning political actions taken as a result of the science, but the fact that the climate is changing is undisputable.
::::As for whether this form of climate change is unusual in the grand scale of time, you're right that we don't have detailed records going back more than a few hundred years, and ecologically speaking, that's not a long time. But we DO have direct evidence that humans are responsible for a significant portion of the current change, including the incredibly sharp increase in global human population in just the last 100-150 years. And my point is that there really are people out there who firmly believe the scientific community is smoking crack and promoting some dastardly political agenda, and all the photos and documentation of mass coral bleaching events, glacier and ice-cap melt, species extinctions, etc., are all elaborate hoaxes. (Just like us landing on the moon, right?) [[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.120|108.162.246.120]] 23:59, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

::::Amongst other climate science denier talking points Hkmaly sets up this straw man: "What I'm challenging is the belief that if we tax production of carbon dioxide... the climate will change back." The notion that if we reduced greenhouse gas emissions then the "climate would change back" is nothing but a climate science denier straw man. AGW Theory does not say that - it instead says that due to man-made greenhouse gases already in the atmosphere the globe will continue to warm the Earth no matter what we do, and also that if we reduced greenhouse gas emissions then future global warming will be mitigated.

::::Hkmaly also repeats this science denier falsehood: "And in fact, we don't even have data for those thousands of years." And if fact, you are wrong: we have temperature proxy data going back for not only thousands of years but for far longer than that too. {{unsigned ip|199.27.128.124}}

Isn't the point of this one the fact that the cold days standing out being part of the point. People use rare cold snaps to question global warming, but they're ignoring the fact that the cold snap wouldn't be that out of the ordinary years ago. {{unsigned ip|173.245.55.78}}

It's not GulfStream that matters, it's the proximity to the ocean that keeps the temperatures moderate. Seattle is located much farther North than St. Louis AND next to an arctic cold ocean stream, yet it's much warmer in the winter (and colder in the summer). The dry continental air has much higher temperature differences between the summer and winter. The pattern of the mountain chains in the North America tends to bring the cold arctic air from the North to the middle of the continent. Also, 0F/-18C is not brutally cold, it's moderately cold. -40 (either C or F) is brutally cold.
[[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.66|199.27.128.66]] 05:11, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

An article about Gulfstream: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/new-simulations-question-gulf-stream-role-tempering-europes-winters/ [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.66|199.27.128.66]] 05:24, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
:I wrote that 0F/-18C is ''fucking'' cold, just to emphasize human feelings about that temperature. Someone changed this to ''brutall''. And the Gulf Stream is just one example to show Europeans how different the climate can behave. And of course the northern American climate is not covered by this.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 21:23, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
::To those of us who constantly live with much lower temperatures, that's not that cold at all. In fact, -18*C in the middle of winter would be a warm day. It'd be better to validate your statements with locational data supporting it, such as, "Floridians would go mad if it snowed" or "If all the snow melted on time, Canadians would go crazy". [[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.7|108.162.245.7]] 14:22, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Talk:1308: Christmas Lights

2013-12-25T07:30:09Z

108.162.245.7:

If I am reading the graphs right, except for the very top there is no blue lights.
[[User:Traisjames|From the guy with his eye on the sky.]] ([[User talk:Traisjames|talk]]) 06:41, 25 December 2013 (UTC)
Also the spike in the near IR of the large graph is likely to be a mercury line. I think fires would have a smoother curve of a black body.
[[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.122|199.27.128.122]] 06:47, 25 December 2013 (UTC)
Could someone make a couloured version?[[User:Guru-45|Guru-45]] ([[User talk:Guru-45|talk]]) 07:22, 25 December 2013 (UTC)
Also the light at the top of the tree seems to be emitting in the UV range. Perhaps it’s supposed to be a fluorescent lamp? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.7|108.162.245.7]] 07:30, 25 December 2013 (UTC)