explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

3011: Europa Clipper

2024-11-14T14:37:37Z

141.101.69.29: Reducing undue repetition of "dessert"

{{comic
| number = 3011
| date = November 13, 2024
| title = Europa Clipper
| image = europa_clipper_2x.png
| imagesize = 333x356px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = They had BETTER make this a sample return mission.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a JOVIAN DESSERT. Please consider deleting this tag too soon, but refrain from doing so.}}

[[File:Animation of Europa Clipper trajectory around Jupiter.gif|thumb|right|The ''Europa Clipper's'' projected course around {{w|Jupiter}}, represented as the stationary green dot. In gold is Jupiter's moon {{w|Callisto (moon)|Callisto}}, in cyan is the moon {{w|Europa (moon)|Europa}} — the primary target of the spacecraft's study — and in orange-red is the innermost of Jupiter's four {{w|Galilean moons|"Galilean"}} moons, {{w|Io (moon)|Io}}. The spacecraft's track is shown in magenta. Jupiter's largest moon {{w|Ganymede (moon)|Ganymede}} and its second largest moon {{w|Titan (moon)|Titan}} are not shown, but their gravitational pull affects the ''Clipper's'' trajectory. A mission goal is to achieve a 6:1 {{w|orbital resonance}} with Europa by September 2034.[https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Martin-Ozimek/publication/383115312_AAS_24-433_Europa_Clipper_Mission_Analysis_Pump_Down_Trajectory_Design/links/66bcd845311cbb094938dbd6/AAS-24-433-Europa-Clipper-Mission-Analysis-Pump-Down-Trajectory-Design.pdf] ]]

The ''{{w|Europa Clipper}}'' space probe was launched from the {{w|Kennedy Space Center}} in Florida on October 14, 2024. It is expected to arrive at Jupiter and begin exploration of Jupiter's moons, particularly {{w|Europa (moon)|Europa}}, in April of 2030.

Europa is an icy moon. Water ice covers its surface. Beneath the ice, there is expected to be liquid water, which might contain living microbes.[https://europa.nasa.gov/why-europa/ingredients-for-life/] To sample this liquid, its crust (water ice) would need to be broken.

In the comic, Europa's surface ice is likened to the caramel crust on the dessert ''{{w|crème brûlée}}'' which, to eat typically has its crust broken with a spoon. It is believed to have been [https://archive.org/details/lagastronomieaug00sabb/page/272/mode/2up invented in Europe], after which the moon and the space probe were named. Thus [[Randall]] suggests the spacecraft might encounter crème brûlée, and has therefore been equipped with a spoon for the purpose of collecting samples, as spoons are the traditional {{w|tableware}} provided for eating such desserts. More directly, the {{w|Cassini-Huygens}} probe, after landing on the surface of Saturn's moon Titan in January of 2005, found that ''its'' surface had what was described as [https://www.sciencenews.org/article/world-unveiled-cr%C3%A8me-br%C3%BBl%C3%A9e-titan a "crème brûlée" consistency], although there are significant differences between the two moons.

No such spoon is present on the ''Europa Clipper.''{{cn}} Its course is designed to avoid contact with Europa so as to prevent {{w|Planetary protection|contamination by microorganisms from Earth}}. The spacecraft is, however, equipped with a magnetometer at the end of a 8.5 meter deployable boom. Deployable instruments on spacecraft have often failed to deploy correctly, so the successful deployment of any instrument is considered a cause for celebration.

The title text expands on the joke by stating that the spacecraft "had BETTER" return samples of Europa to Earth. However, the ''Europa Clipper'' is not a {{w|sample-return mission}}.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[A space probe with two rectangular solar panels, a circular dish of the front, and a very large spoon extending beneath, longer than the span of both solar panels]

:[Below the panel:]
:Good news: NASA's '''''Europa Clipper''''' is en route to Europa and has successfully deployed its crème brûlée spoon.

==Trivia==
The Clipper spacecraft was at one point to be developed alongside a lander, which was later dropped from being part of the same (or very closely partnered) mission. The latest version of the {{w|Europa Lander}} proposal is far behind the Clipper in implementation, not yet even being guaranteed funding.

Any actual sample return mission is currently far into the future of {{w|Ocean Worlds Exploration Program|the related plans for exploration}}, along with the possibility of digging deep enough into the ice to finally confirm or dismiss some of the more interesting theories about the world concerned.

In Arthur C Clarke's novel '''2010''', the monolith aliens tell humanity ''"All these worlds are yours - except Europa. Attempt no landing there."'' Contrary to the suggestion of the comic, no landing or any other physical interaction beyond observation of the surface of Europa is planned.

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Space]]
[[Category:Space probes]]
[[Category:Food]]

2429: Exposure Models

2021-02-25T10:28:40Z

141.101.69.29: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 2429
| date = February 24, 2021
| title = Exposure Models
| image = exposure_models.png
| titletext = "Cumulative number of coronavirus spreadsheets created over time" is a spreadsheet I am coming dangerously close to creating.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a CUMULATIVE NUMBER OF COVID SPREADSHEETS CREATED OVER TIME. Please mention here why this explanation isn't complete. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
This is another comic in a [[:Category:COVID-19|series]] related to the {{w|2019-20 coronavirus outbreak|2020 pandemic}} of the {{w|coronavirus}} {{w|SARS-CoV-2}}, which causes {{w|COVID-19}}.

[[Cueball]] created another COVID exposure model to help lower his risk of catching COVID-19 in the pandemic. [[Megan]] inquires about the model's result, to which Cueball admits that he's been sitting at his computer continuously debugging models, and draws the conclusion that debugging COVID-19 models lessens close contact with other people. This is similar to the premise of [[1708: Dehydration]], except the situation is reversed—instead of researching something as a preventive action resulting in a beneficial effect, it gives a detrimental effect.

Cueball is too busy making models to figure out how to actually lower his risk other than sitting around doing effectively nothing. He has also created a meta-model, reporting the number of models Cueball has to create to wait the pandemic out. The title text further expands on recursive graphs by charting charts about COVID-19.

Cueball is also too busy to notice the back of his chair disappeared in the 3rd panel.

==Transcript==
:[Cueball is sitting at a desk with a laptop. Megan walks in.]
:Cueball: I built another COVID exposure model to help me limit my risk.

:[Megan is now standing behind Cueball, who has turned in his chair to face her.]
:Megan: Any new insights?
:Cueball: Yeah: "If you spend all day debugging models, you don't have close contact with a lot of people."

:[Cueball turns back to his laptop.]
:Megan: Well, I guess it worked.
:Cueball: According to my meta-model, the end of the pandemic is only four more models away.
:Megan: ''So close!''

==Trivia==
Cueball's chair is missing its back in the last panel. Given the fact that most chair backs do not disappear when someone stops leaning on them{{Citation needed}}, [[Randall]] probably just forgot to draw it.
{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Recursion]]
[[Category:COVID-19]]

1079: United Shapes

2021-02-22T17:18:04Z

141.101.69.29:

{{comic
| number = 1079
| date = July 9, 2012
| title = United Shapes
| image = united_shapes.png
| imagesize = 800px
| titletext = That eggplant is in something of a flaccid state.
}}
The large version is here: [http://xkcd.com/1079/large/ http://xkcd.com/1079/large/]
==Explanation==
In this comic, each state of the United States of America has been filled-in with an object of similar shape. Due to the size range of the states, some states are too small to clearly make-out in the normal size image. Click [http://xkcd.com/1079/large/ here] to see the large version, which makes every state perfectly clear. Several years later Randall made a new map of the US mainland [[1653: United States Map]], where he shuffled the positions of the states but filled out the outline. Also in this map Michigan has been split into two separate parts. (Here it is the mitten and the eagle).

Very few, if any, of the shapes used are stereotypes of the state; they are merely objects that look like the state. Some of the objects are those which the states are widely known to resemble. For example, Michigan is represented by a mitten and an Eagle, and a pot with handle takes the place of Oklahoma (with the panhandle region of the state filled with a literal handle). Others, however, are more creative. Few would have likely pictured Texas as a dog or Alaska as a bear with a jet pack and laser gun. There are several incredibly simple objects filling some states. Kentucky is filled by a cloud, which conceivably could have been used for any state, and Wyoming, one of the nearly rectangular states, is simply an envelope. There are three pairs of states that are related. Georgia and Missouri each contain an image of the other, drawing attention to their similar shapes, North and South Dakota are the top and bottom halves of a {{w|guitar amplifier}} {{w|speaker cabinet}}, and Alabama and Mississippi are {{w|moai}} facing in opposite directions.

Colorado contains what looks like a Wikipedia article. A close-up of the fake article is provided [http://xkcd.com/1079/colorado/]. The following references are made in the Colorado article:

*The pronunciation is not that for Colorado, but for {{w|Eyjafjallajökull}}, a volcano in Iceland that erupted in April 2010.
*The way it has a demilitarized zone towards Wyoming resembles {{W|North Korea}} and {{W|South Korea}}.
*Eleven dimensions refers to {{w|string theory}}.
*A {{w|wormhole}} is a theoretical relative of the {{w|black hole}}. This is a reference to the television series {{w|Stargate SG-1}} where a device capable of creating wormholes is located in the {{w|Cheyenne Mountain nuclear bunker}} in Colorado.
*A {{w|Horcrux}} is a type of magical object in the world of {{W|Harry Potter}}, which prevents the creator of it from dying.
*The radiation zones around Longmont are caused by {{w|Radioactive contamination from the Rocky Flats Plant|radioactive contamination from the Rocky Flats Plant}}.
*The fake motto ''Si parare possis, vivere septem'' can be roughly translated as "With preparation, survival is possible for over a week."

New Mexico according to [https://xkcd.com/1079/info.0.json official transcript] is "A liquid container labeled for something of unusual and silly danger". The labeling is upside down and it refers to the nuclear testing facility White Sands Missile Range located in New Mexico for the nuclear bomb. The joke is that it presents the white sand itself as extremely hazardous. The phrase "contains chemicals known only to the state of Nevada" may be a reference to the nuclear weapons testing that occurred in Nevada (although in that case, it's not really the ''state'' of Nevada that knows those chemicals, but rather the {{w|Nevada Test Site}}, home of Area 51 ''et al''.), and is also a reference to California's {{w|1986 California Proposition 65|Proposition 65}} warning label, "WARNING: This product contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm."
:This end up
:Property of White Sands Missile Range
:??? [Followed by a {{w|NFPA 704}} Diamond with all divisions at severe risk, and a radiation symbol in the special notice division]
:Contains White Sand
:FLAMMABLE
:Warning:
:This product contains chemicals known
:only to the state of Nevada.
:Contents under pressure from parents
:If swallowed, induce labor
:56 fluid ounces
:and 14 other ounces

The title text makes fun of Florida which is sometimes called "The penis of America". Obviously, this penis is somewhat flaccid (not erect). The use of the word "state" is a pun, as it means some particular condition (flaccid state) as well as a political entity (The State of Florida).

==Chart==
{|class=wikitable
!State!!Contained Picture!!Comments
|-
|Alabama ||A moai head facing east.||{{w|Moai}} are Easter Island stone statues
|-
|Alaska ||A bear with a jet pack and a ray gun.||The ray gun and {{w|jet pack}} are fixtures of science fiction during the Cold War era, and the Russian Bear is an often-used personification of the country Russia in political cartoonage; the "teddy bear" image may be related to Alaska's former Russian heritage. The USA acquired Alaska from Russia in the Alaska Purchase of 1867 and it became a state in 1959, during the Cold War. The Cold War often featured worries of a potential Russian invasion of Alaska due to their geographical proximity across the Bering Sea and Bering Strait, which persisted through the 1980s; Alaska was the location of a large number of interceptor missiles as part of Ronald Reagan's "Star Wars Defense Initiative" intended to shoot down missiles that might be launched from the USSR. The ray gun is pointed across the Bering Strait at Russia, consistent with Alaska's often being described as the "first line of defense" against Russian aggression. The teddy bear is similar in appearance to {{w|Winnie the Pooh}}.||
|-
|Arizona ||A refrigerated shelf containing milk, bread, and pastries.||
|-
|Arkansas ||A measuring cup.||
|-
|California ||A vacuum.||An old-fashioned upright vacuum cleaner (lying down to the right), green with a yellow bag.
|-
|Colorado ||The Wikipedia article on Colorado.||A fake Wikipedia article on Colorado. Below the text as seen in the provided close up:
:[web address:]
::en.wikipedia.org/wiki/colorado
:[Headers]
::Wikipedia
::Article Talk
::Colorado
:[Main article {note that Randall forgot the closing parentheses ')' after the pronunciation}]
::Colorado (Pronounced [ˈeːijaˌfjatlaˌjœːkʏtl̥] is a US State encompassing portions of the Rocky
::Mountains and the Great Plains. The region has been inhabited since at least 11,000 BCE, and
::some archaeological evidence suggest the state – with roughly its current borders – has literally
::always existed. Colorado is separated from Wyoming by a 28-mile demilitarized zone, and
::has at times exercised substantial regional
::power via the installation of puppet governments
::in neighboring states
::Geographically, Colorado is eleven-dimensional,
::though seven of those dimensions are tightly
::compacted and difficult to detect in most areas
::of the state. Colorado is home to the nation's
::oldest continually-operated wormhole and two
::of President Lincoln's horcruxes.
::The wildlife in Colorado is commonly characterized
::as "erratic", particularly in the radiation zones
::around Longmont. The State's timber wolf
::population is largely bipedal; the Park Service
::has expressed "concern" at their attempts to enroll in
:[Fact box with correct (though black instead of blue) State flag and emblem and fake motto:]
::State of Colorado
::Motto:
::"Si parare possis, vivere septem."
::(With preparation, survival is
::possible for over a week.)
|-
|Connecticut ||A train conductor's hat.||
|-
|Delaware ||A meerkat.||
|-
|Florida ||An eggplant.||The title text mentions the eggplant being in a flaccid state, which might be a reference to the sexual use of the eggplant emoji.
|-
|Georgia ||Missouri.||The outline of the state of Missouri, with the {{w|Gateway Arch}} in St. Louis.
|-
|Hawaii ||The island of Hawaii is a snowball. The smaller islands are small bits of snow.||
|-
|Idaho ||A garden gnome, sitting down.||
|-
|Illinois ||A gangster with a guitar case, upside down.||
|-
|Indiana ||The brush of a paintbrush.||
|-
|Iowa ||A tomato, lettuce, cold cut and cheese sandwich.||
|-
|Kansas ||A {{w|spinet}} piano.||
|-
|Kentucky ||A cloud.||
|-
|Louisiana ||A boot with some gum stuck to the bottom of it.||
|-
|Maine ||A Vulcan salute.||Maine's camp sunshine has had Star Trek related events in the past, including the opportunity to appear in a film.
|-
|Maryland ||A wolf howling to the moon, upside down.||
|-
|Massachusetts ||An elephant, being ridden by a man, carrying tea.||Might be a reference to the Boston Tea Party, which occurred in Massachusetts, and the Republican political party. The man seems to be wearing a tricorn hat.
|-
|Michigan ||A mitten for the lower portion, an eagle for the {{w|Upper Peninsula of Michigan}}.||
|-
|Minnesota ||$160 in $20 USD bills, tied together.||
|-
|Mississippi ||A moai head facing west.||
|-
|Missouri ||Georgia.||The outline of the state of Georgia, with a pair of {{w|Georgia Peach|Georgia peaches}}.
|-
|Montana ||One half of a muffin, sideways.||
|-
|Nebraska ||A blue VW type 2 with mattresses sticking out the back.||
|-
|Nevada ||A clothes iron.||
|-
|New Hampshire ||A tall brick factory building.|| Could be in reference to the many brick mill buildings in Manchester, one of the larger cities in the state.
|-
|New Jersey ||A bent-over old person. He is carrying a cane.||
|-
|New Mexico ||A liquid container labeled for something of unusual and silly danger.||A yellow liquid container with upside-down labeling.
::This end up!!
::Property of White Sands Missile Range
::Contains White Sand
:[Written inside a hazardous-materials {{w|NFPA 704|NFPA diamond}} with the ? very large, and the three '4' in the three top part of a diamond shape divided in four these three sections being blue(health), red(flammability), and yellow(instability). The lower part has a radioactive sign on the same grey background as the large rectangle.]
::??? 4 4 4
::Flammable
::Warning
::This product contains chemicals known
::Only to the State of Nevada.
::Contents under pressure from parents
::If swallowed, induce labor
::56 fluid ounces
::and 14 other ounces
::NB - There are several chemicals such as {{w|Pentaborane(9)}} and {{w|tert-Butyl hydroperoxide|''tert''-Butyl hydroperoxide}} which have a 4-4-4 rating, however, no known substance is both 4-4-4 and radioactive
|-
|New York ||A hybrid transmission with standard manual-style gears and a torque converter sliced in half.||
|-
|North Carolina ||A bouquet of flowers. They appear similar to {{w|Galium Palustre|marsh bedstraws}}.||
|-
|North Dakota ||The top half of a guitar amplifier speaker cabinet.|| Possibly a {{w|Randall Amplifiers|Randall}} [https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-49c12/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/12694/26126/apihqruad__00850.1479879391.jpg RD412A] angled 4x12" cabinet, which is similar in appearance and bears [[Randall]]'s name.
|-
|Ohio ||Underwear (Briefs).||Possibly a reference to ''{{w|Captain Underpants}}'', which takes place in Ohio.||
|-
|Oklahoma ||A covered pot, dripping with boil-over.||Western Oklahoma is often called "{{w|Oklahoma Panhandle|the panhandle}}"; sure enough, this is where the boiling pot's handle fits.||
|-
|Oregon ||A locomotive.||
|-
|Pennsylvania ||A very thick book with a bookmark.||
|-
|Rhode Island ||The bow half of a boat's hull.||
|-
|South Carolina ||A slice of pizza.||
|-
|South Dakota ||The bottom half of guitar amplifier speaker cabinet.|| Possibly a {{w|Randall Amplifiers|Randall}} [https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-49c12/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/12694/26126/apihqruad__00850.1479879391.jpg RD412A] angled 4x12" cabinet, which is similar in appearance and bears [[Randall]]'s name.
|-
|Tennessee ||A number of children's books, placed in a slightly askew pile.|| Possibly a reference to Dolly Parton's Imagination Library. The books are {{w|Where's Waldo?}}, {{w|The Wreck of the Zephyr}}, {{w|The Way Things Work}}, Free Fall, {{w|Paddle-to-the-Sea}}, What It Feels Like to Be a Building, and {{w|The Crab with the Golden Claws}}.
|-
|Texas ||A dog sitting in a bowl.||
|-
|Utah ||An oven.||
|-
|Vermont ||A microscope, upside down.||
|-
|Virginia ||A {{w|stegosaurus}}.||
|-
|Washington ||A whale.|| The Puget Sound is well known for whale watching
|-
|Washington DC ||A star.||On most maps, capitals are shown as stars. Washington DC is the capital of the United States.
|-
|West Virginia ||A {{w|frog}}.||
|-
|Wisconsin ||A skull.||
|-
|Wyoming ||An envelope.||The back side of a white envelope, sealed with red wax, with a black heart next to a signature (lower left corner).
|}

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|tables are not welcome here}}
:The '''United Shapes'''
:A map of things states are shaped like
:[Each state has some item wedged to stay inside its borders]

{| class=wikitable
! State
! Official Transcript
! Text
|-
|WA
|whale
|
|-
|MT
|half muffin
|
|-
|ND and SD
|top and bottom halves of an amp
|
|-
|MN
|$160 in $20 USD bills
|
|-
|WI
|skull
|
|-
|MI
|mitten for the lower portion, eagle for the {{w|Upper Peninsula of Michigan}}
|
|-
|NY
|hybrid transmission with standard manual-style gears and a torque converter sliced in half
|
|-
|VT
|microscope, upside down
|
|-
|NH
|tall brick factory building
|
|-
|ME
|Vulcan salute
|
|-
|MA
|elephant, being ridden by a man, carrying tea
|
|-
|CT
|train conductor's hat
|
|-
|RI
|bow half of a boat's hull
|
|-
|OR
|locomotive
|
|-
|ID
|garden gnome, sitting down
|
|-
|WY
|envelope.
|The envelope is marked with a signature, possibly Randall's
|-
|NE
|blue VW type 2 with mattresses sticking out the back
|
|-
|IA
|tomato, lettuce, cold cut and cheese sandwich
|
|-
|IL
|gangster with a guitar case, upside down
|
|-
|IN
|brush of a paintbrush
|
|-
|OH
|underwear (Briefs)
|
|-
|PA
|very thick book with a bookmark
|
|-
|NJ
|bent-over old person
|
|-
|NV
|clothes iron
|
|-
|UT
|oven
|
|-
|CO
|Wikipedia article on Colorado
|See Link Above
|-
|KS
|stand-up piano
|
|-
|MO
|Georgia
|Georgia
|-
|KY
|cloud
|
|-
|WV
|{{w|frog}}
|
|-
|VA
|{{w|stegosaurus}}
|
|-
|DC
|star.
|
|-
|MD
|wolf howling to the moon, upside down
|
|-
|DE
|meerkat
|
|-
|CA
|vacuum cleaner
|
|-
|AZ
|refrigerated shelf containing milk, bread, and pastries
|
|-
|NM
|liquid container with warning label
|This end up!!
Property of White Sands Missile Range

Contains White Sand

???

FLAMMABLE

Warning: This product contains chemicals known Only to the state of Nevada.

Contents under pressure from parents.

If swallowed, induce labor.

56 Fluid Ounces and 14 other ounces.
|-
|OK
|covered pot, dripping with boil-over
|
|-
|AR
|measuring cup
|
|-
|TN
|children's books, placed in a slightly askew pile
|Handford / WHERE'S WALDO / or wally

The Wreck of the Zephyr / Chris Van Allsburg

The Way Things Work / DAVID MACAULRY

Weisner / FREE FALL

PADDLE-TO-THE-SEA / HCH(?)

WHAT IT FEELS LIKE TO BE A BUILDING / Wilson

TINTIN / The Crab with the Golden Claws / Hergé
|-
|NC
|flower bouquet
|
|-
|AK
|teddy bear with a jet pack and a ray gun
|
|-
|HI
|snowball
|
|-
|TX
|dog sitting in a bowl
|
|-
|LA
|boot with some gum stuck to the bottom
|
|-
|MS
|moai head facing west
|
|-
|AL
|moai head facing east
|
|-
|GA
|Missouri.
|Missouri
|-
|SC
|pizza slice
|
|-
|FL
|eggplant
|
|}

==Trivia==
*A print version of this comic is available in the [https://store.xkcd.com/products/united-shapes-poster xkcd store].

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Large drawings]]
[[Category:Comics with color]]
[[Category:Maps]]
[[Category:Food]]
[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Dogs]]
[[Category:Dinosaurs]]
[[Category:Wikipedia]]
[[Category:Star Trek]]
[[Category:Harry Potter]] 
[[Category:Volcanoes]] 
[[Category:Comics with xkcd store products]]

Talk:2381: The True Name of the Bear

2020-11-06T15:29:47Z

141.101.69.29:

This one is ridiculously early. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.22.120|172.69.22.120]] 05:22, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

Let’s try this again, hopefully won’t get stepped on this time... I know I’ve seen Gretchen on various YouTube channels but is she really “the world's foremost internet linguist” as Randal claims?[[Special:Contributions/162.158.79.87|162.158.79.87]] 05:29, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
:Probably as a linguist studying internet culture, which she is indeed one of the most famous in that area. Most popular linguist on the internet? It's everyone's guess.
:From Randall Munroe to Tom Scott... how much more proof do you need? Or is it a conspiracy theory waiting to happen? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.143|162.158.74.143]] 16:34, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
Well, after being mentioned by Randall she totally might become the most known one.

"Arth" is Welsh for bear.
:Sounds rather close to the French "[https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ours#French ours]" (which derives from Latin and whose pronunciation has virtually nothing in common with the English word of the same spelling).--[[Special:Contributions/141.101.69.29|141.101.69.29]] 15:24, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Hmm... I find Ponytail's behaviour strange. At first she asks for explanation/verification of Megan's claim and when she recieves it she yells "NO!" as if she already knew it would be true... [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 09:14, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
:She gets confirmation that the name is lost in panel 3 (and assumes it also confirms the summoning part). So she indeed knew by panel 4.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.68.66|141.101.68.66]] 10:51, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
:: Why isn't the bear's name summoning it after its name being said out loud in panel 3, though? Or is the name only "true" in English (in which the name didn't exist until Gretchen reconstructed it)? Doesn't make sense. /edit: I know we are talking about myths and superstition here and thus it might be all somewhat hazy but this comic is imho not self-consistent. I'm not used to inconsistent comics on XKCD (unless it's done on purpose for humorous effect which in this case seems not to be true). Thus my irritation. [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 11:13, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
:::They are clearly in England (or the Anglosphere in general, though English isn't the official language in the US, merely customary) and by the Rules Of Summoning an English/etc 'bear' ''must'' only respond to the locality-sanctioned word (said with intent, not a coincidentally homophonic collection of syllables, not saying the exact same word but in the sense of being actually quoting a different language that uses the same word).
:::I theorise that the Welsh are saying ''their'' bear-name in slightly the wrong accent for being useful to summon a Welsh bear (maybe it should be more "Ardd"?) due to excessive Anglicisation. Or the Celtic way of not-saying-the-true-Celtic-word is to habitually say the Anglic one, which thus does not count. Or the Welsh bears are just confused by the current trend for dual-language signage and expect/require both. (Welsh then English in one half of the country, English followed by Welsh in the other part of the nation.) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.208|141.101.98.208]] 12:55, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
:::If we're worried about consistency here, how is it that all the Romance language speakers (e.g. Orso for Italians, Oso for Spaniards, etc) get away without being constantly mauled? Perhaps it's only the *true* name of the bear, -rkto, that summons the animal. I suppose that would give an explanation of why we don't see any Indo-European speakers around nowadays... [[User:Gbisaga|Gbisaga]] ([[User talk:Gbisaga|talk]]) 13:37, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
:::*NOTE* I've added an explanation that attempts to summarize this consistency discussion. But somebody reverted it. Why? It doesn't seem out of line, compared to a lot of what I read on explainxkcd. [[User:Gbisaga|Gbisaga]] ([[User talk:Gbisaga|talk]]) 14:29, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

:: It need not be so complicated. Perhaps there is only 1 ur-bear (ha ha) that can teleport when it hears the magic word. If the magic word is said many times every day in Wales, that ur-bear would be exhausted by teleportation and only rarely does saying the name cause it to do so. Whereas in English, the first time in years it has been summoned is in this comic, so of course it comes. [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 19:54, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
: Or simply the summoning only works when the true name is said in the currently spoken language (English), not as a foreign word. And consistency on how it works or doesn't work in other languages is really really overthinking, as this comics is not about other languages and says nothing on summoning technicalities.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.68.66|141.101.68.66]] 00:53, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
:: How does the bear know which language is spoken, though... Besides, I'm not sure if this is overthinking if it's basically the first thought I had regarding this comic. [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 12:34, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Fascinating! In Russian, the word for bear is also euphemistic, pronounced as ''medved'', which roughly means "knowledgeable about honey". But until today, I thought that something like "ber" is in fact its true name. Turns out it's not even that. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.238.236|162.158.238.236]] 14:02, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
: Actually, ''medved'' is 'honey-eater', see these two links (in Russian) https://pikabu.ru/story/kto_krayniy_za_medvedem_fenomen_tabu_v_lingvistike_5812897 and https://pikabu.ru/story/kak_rabotaet_istoricheskaya_lingvistika2_v_berloge_yetimologa_5817400 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.183.205|162.158.183.205]] 16:14, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
::Accurate! [[User:Lettherebedarklight|aoijgpisbHtejsykl7ekderhtsjk6r64os4kys\\\[]jsrtjgdrghtvgwrhtejyku5dli6;78t7l6rk5j4h|||||#Rty-----WWWWWWfflfllfllfllfeogk0q9wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww4-cv;c;;c;c[;]z\]d;v[\]????????OH GOD IT'S CRASIHNG MY PC��]] ([[User talk:Lettherebedarklight|talk]]) 06:40, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
:I've just been down a Wikipedia rabbit-hole, because of this information, to try to work out why I don't remember it being reported that Medvedev had resigned and replaced by Mishustin. (Or replaced ''with'' him, wherever he emerged from, ''by'' Putin, to be strictly accurate.). Probably we were more concerned about the Constitutional changes, then 'other things' hit the headlines. Not comic-related, but thank you for enlightening me on both linguistic and (as a side-effect) political subjects. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.26|162.158.158.26]] 16:39, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

: What were the linguistic speculations that the header mentioned? Even if there's no source, they shouldn't be removed.

I thought the reconstruction was *rtkos, not *rktos? Wikipedia agrees: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/h₂ŕ̥tḱos [[Special:Contributions/162.158.183.205|162.158.183.205]] 16:14, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
: You’re absolutely correct. Not only is the thorn cluster backwards according to the most commonly accepted reconstruction, it also has the wrong velar (should be *k̑, not *k), AND the laryngeal is missing. The syllabicity marker on the *r is also missing, though the nature of the right-to-left syllabification rule means that the *r would at least automatically be syllabified anyway. This was the main thing that really bothered me about this comic, along with the fact that the expected English form would absolutely not be ''**arth'', but ''*urth'' (or perhaps just ''*ur'' (OE ''*urh-'').
: So yes, there’s an awful lot wrong with the actual linguistics in this one. Which is very disappointing. :-( [[Special:Contributions/162.158.134.40|162.158.134.40]] 09:40, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

I bet a dollar that the long-lost English word for "bear" was "Voldemort". [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.242|108.162.215.242]] 01:03, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

: Oh-oh. You said it. This is why you need to create an account - you don't want people randomly summoning you by your true name "Mr/Ms 108.162.215.242" !! [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 17:48, 5 November 2020 (UTC) (Not my real name which is...oh wait...nearly got me there!)

In Finnish bear is karhu, which is also an euphemistic word meaning "the rough one". There are many other words for bear as well, such as kontio (one that walks slowly), nalle ("bear" in Swedish), mesikämmen (the nectar palm), metsän kuningas (the king of the forest), kouko/kouvo (some kind of ghost?), otava (this one would take way too long to explain) and finally oksi/ohto/otso, which likely is the true name. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.238.239|162.158.238.239]] 11:46, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

A safe name to avoid the name of something dangerous is known as [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noa-name noa-name] [https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/noa (further reference)]. You find it also for the wolf, devil, god, leprechauns etc. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.215|162.158.154.215]] 20:51, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

The etymological joke might be on the comic writer - hrtkos might be itself a euphemism, cognate with a word in Sanskrit that meant "destroyer" - possibly "hive destroyer."
"''there is also a suggestion that the original PIE word for bear, *rkso- (or its variants) is itself descriptive, meaning "destroyer (perhaps of beehives)", because a cognate word in Sanskrit is "rakshas", meaning "harm, injury''""
Who really knows? Same source identifies the name in Lithuanian as a different euphemism - "the shaggy one." And wonders about a German, a Slav, and a Balt arguing about the best circumlocution while being careful not to slip up and make themselves an xkcd punchline. Anyway, it's a fun read: [https://charlierussellbears.com/LinguisticArchaeology.html] [[User:Jd2718|Jd2718]] ([[User talk:Jd2718|talk]]) 22:52, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

I wonder if the fact that the brown bear (aka grizzly) has been disappearing from most of North-America as the Germanic languages expanded there, could be cited as (weak) evidence that the euphemism actually prevents bears from appearing.--[[User:Pere prlpz|Pere prlpz]] ([[User talk:Pere prlpz|talk]]) 13:12, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Talk:2381: The True Name of the Bear

2020-11-06T15:24:48Z

141.101.69.29:

This one is ridiculously early. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.22.120|172.69.22.120]] 05:22, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

Let’s try this again, hopefully won’t get stepped on this time... I know I’ve seen Gretchen on various YouTube channels but is she really “the world's foremost internet linguist” as Randal claims?[[Special:Contributions/162.158.79.87|162.158.79.87]] 05:29, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
:Probably as a linguist studying internet culture, which she is indeed one of the most famous in that area. Most popular linguist on the internet? It's everyone's guess.
:From Randall Munroe to Tom Scott... how much more proof do you need? Or is it a conspiracy theory waiting to happen? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.143|162.158.74.143]] 16:34, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
Well, after being mentioned by Randall she totally might become the most known one.

"Arth" is Welsh for bear.
:Sounds rather close to the French "ours" (which derives from Latin and whose pronunciation has virtually nothing in common with the English word of the same spelling).--[[Special:Contributions/141.101.69.29|141.101.69.29]] 15:24, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Hmm... I find Ponytail's behaviour strange. At first she asks for explanation/verification of Megan's claim and when she recieves it she yells "NO!" as if she already knew it would be true... [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 09:14, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
:She gets confirmation that the name is lost in panel 3 (and assumes it also confirms the summoning part). So she indeed knew by panel 4.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.68.66|141.101.68.66]] 10:51, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
:: Why isn't the bear's name summoning it after its name being said out loud in panel 3, though? Or is the name only "true" in English (in which the name didn't exist until Gretchen reconstructed it)? Doesn't make sense. /edit: I know we are talking about myths and superstition here and thus it might be all somewhat hazy but this comic is imho not self-consistent. I'm not used to inconsistent comics on XKCD (unless it's done on purpose for humorous effect which in this case seems not to be true). Thus my irritation. [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 11:13, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
:::They are clearly in England (or the Anglosphere in general, though English isn't the official language in the US, merely customary) and by the Rules Of Summoning an English/etc 'bear' ''must'' only respond to the locality-sanctioned word (said with intent, not a coincidentally homophonic collection of syllables, not saying the exact same word but in the sense of being actually quoting a different language that uses the same word).
:::I theorise that the Welsh are saying ''their'' bear-name in slightly the wrong accent for being useful to summon a Welsh bear (maybe it should be more "Ardd"?) due to excessive Anglicisation. Or the Celtic way of not-saying-the-true-Celtic-word is to habitually say the Anglic one, which thus does not count. Or the Welsh bears are just confused by the current trend for dual-language signage and expect/require both. (Welsh then English in one half of the country, English followed by Welsh in the other part of the nation.) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.208|141.101.98.208]] 12:55, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
:::If we're worried about consistency here, how is it that all the Romance language speakers (e.g. Orso for Italians, Oso for Spaniards, etc) get away without being constantly mauled? Perhaps it's only the *true* name of the bear, -rkto, that summons the animal. I suppose that would give an explanation of why we don't see any Indo-European speakers around nowadays... [[User:Gbisaga|Gbisaga]] ([[User talk:Gbisaga|talk]]) 13:37, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
:::*NOTE* I've added an explanation that attempts to summarize this consistency discussion. But somebody reverted it. Why? It doesn't seem out of line, compared to a lot of what I read on explainxkcd. [[User:Gbisaga|Gbisaga]] ([[User talk:Gbisaga|talk]]) 14:29, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

:: It need not be so complicated. Perhaps there is only 1 ur-bear (ha ha) that can teleport when it hears the magic word. If the magic word is said many times every day in Wales, that ur-bear would be exhausted by teleportation and only rarely does saying the name cause it to do so. Whereas in English, the first time in years it has been summoned is in this comic, so of course it comes. [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 19:54, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
: Or simply the summoning only works when the true name is said in the currently spoken language (English), not as a foreign word. And consistency on how it works or doesn't work in other languages is really really overthinking, as this comics is not about other languages and says nothing on summoning technicalities.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.68.66|141.101.68.66]] 00:53, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
:: How does the bear know which language is spoken, though... Besides, I'm not sure if this is overthinking if it's basically the first thought I had regarding this comic. [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 12:34, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Fascinating! In Russian, the word for bear is also euphemistic, pronounced as ''medved'', which roughly means "knowledgeable about honey". But until today, I thought that something like "ber" is in fact its true name. Turns out it's not even that. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.238.236|162.158.238.236]] 14:02, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
: Actually, ''medved'' is 'honey-eater', see these two links (in Russian) https://pikabu.ru/story/kto_krayniy_za_medvedem_fenomen_tabu_v_lingvistike_5812897 and https://pikabu.ru/story/kak_rabotaet_istoricheskaya_lingvistika2_v_berloge_yetimologa_5817400 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.183.205|162.158.183.205]] 16:14, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
::Accurate! [[User:Lettherebedarklight|aoijgpisbHtejsykl7ekderhtsjk6r64os4kys\\\[]jsrtjgdrghtvgwrhtejyku5dli6;78t7l6rk5j4h|||||#Rty-----WWWWWWfflfllfllfllfeogk0q9wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww4-cv;c;;c;c[;]z\]d;v[\]????????OH GOD IT'S CRASIHNG MY PC��]] ([[User talk:Lettherebedarklight|talk]]) 06:40, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
:I've just been down a Wikipedia rabbit-hole, because of this information, to try to work out why I don't remember it being reported that Medvedev had resigned and replaced by Mishustin. (Or replaced ''with'' him, wherever he emerged from, ''by'' Putin, to be strictly accurate.). Probably we were more concerned about the Constitutional changes, then 'other things' hit the headlines. Not comic-related, but thank you for enlightening me on both linguistic and (as a side-effect) political subjects. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.26|162.158.158.26]] 16:39, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

: What were the linguistic speculations that the header mentioned? Even if there's no source, they shouldn't be removed.

I thought the reconstruction was *rtkos, not *rktos? Wikipedia agrees: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/h₂ŕ̥tḱos [[Special:Contributions/162.158.183.205|162.158.183.205]] 16:14, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
: You’re absolutely correct. Not only is the thorn cluster backwards according to the most commonly accepted reconstruction, it also has the wrong velar (should be *k̑, not *k), AND the laryngeal is missing. The syllabicity marker on the *r is also missing, though the nature of the right-to-left syllabification rule means that the *r would at least automatically be syllabified anyway. This was the main thing that really bothered me about this comic, along with the fact that the expected English form would absolutely not be ''**arth'', but ''*urth'' (or perhaps just ''*ur'' (OE ''*urh-'').
: So yes, there’s an awful lot wrong with the actual linguistics in this one. Which is very disappointing. :-( [[Special:Contributions/162.158.134.40|162.158.134.40]] 09:40, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

I bet a dollar that the long-lost English word for "bear" was "Voldemort". [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.242|108.162.215.242]] 01:03, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

: Oh-oh. You said it. This is why you need to create an account - you don't want people randomly summoning you by your true name "Mr/Ms 108.162.215.242" !! [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 17:48, 5 November 2020 (UTC) (Not my real name which is...oh wait...nearly got me there!)

In Finnish bear is karhu, which is also an euphemistic word meaning "the rough one". There are many other words for bear as well, such as kontio (one that walks slowly), nalle ("bear" in Swedish), mesikämmen (the nectar palm), metsän kuningas (the king of the forest), kouko/kouvo (some kind of ghost?), otava (this one would take way too long to explain) and finally oksi/ohto/otso, which likely is the true name. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.238.239|162.158.238.239]] 11:46, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

A safe name to avoid the name of something dangerous is known as [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noa-name noa-name] [https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/noa (further reference)]. You find it also for the wolf, devil, god, leprechauns etc. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.215|162.158.154.215]] 20:51, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

The etymological joke might be on the comic writer - hrtkos might be itself a euphemism, cognate with a word in Sanskrit that meant "destroyer" - possibly "hive destroyer."
"''there is also a suggestion that the original PIE word for bear, *rkso- (or its variants) is itself descriptive, meaning "destroyer (perhaps of beehives)", because a cognate word in Sanskrit is "rakshas", meaning "harm, injury''""
Who really knows? Same source identifies the name in Lithuanian as a different euphemism - "the shaggy one." And wonders about a German, a Slav, and a Balt arguing about the best circumlocution while being careful not to slip up and make themselves an xkcd punchline. Anyway, it's a fun read: [https://charlierussellbears.com/LinguisticArchaeology.html] [[User:Jd2718|Jd2718]] ([[User talk:Jd2718|talk]]) 22:52, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

I wonder if the fact that the brown bear (aka grizzly) has been disappearing from most of North-America as the Germanic languages expanded there, could be cited as (weak) evidence that the euphemism actually prevents bears from appearing.--[[User:Pere prlpz|Pere prlpz]] ([[User talk:Pere prlpz|talk]]) 13:12, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Talk:2381: The True Name of the Bear

2020-11-06T15:23:50Z

141.101.69.29:

This one is ridiculously early. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.22.120|172.69.22.120]] 05:22, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

Let’s try this again, hopefully won’t get stepped on this time... I know I’ve seen Gretchen on various YouTube channels but is she really “the world's foremost internet linguist” as Randal claims?[[Special:Contributions/162.158.79.87|162.158.79.87]] 05:29, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
:Probably as a linguist studying internet culture, which she is indeed one of the most famous in that area. Most popular linguist on the internet? It's everyone's guess.
:From Randall Munroe to Tom Scott... how much more proof do you need? Or is it a conspiracy theory waiting to happen? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.143|162.158.74.143]] 16:34, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
Well, after being mentioned by Randall she totally might become the most known one.

"Arth" is Welsh for bear.
:Sounds rather close to the French "ours" (which derives from Latin and whose pronunciation has nothing in common with the English word of the same spelling, except for the 'R').--[[Special:Contributions/141.101.69.29|141.101.69.29]] 15:23, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Hmm... I find Ponytail's behaviour strange. At first she asks for explanation/verification of Megan's claim and when she recieves it she yells "NO!" as if she already knew it would be true... [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 09:14, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
:She gets confirmation that the name is lost in panel 3 (and assumes it also confirms the summoning part). So she indeed knew by panel 4.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.68.66|141.101.68.66]] 10:51, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
:: Why isn't the bear's name summoning it after its name being said out loud in panel 3, though? Or is the name only "true" in English (in which the name didn't exist until Gretchen reconstructed it)? Doesn't make sense. /edit: I know we are talking about myths and superstition here and thus it might be all somewhat hazy but this comic is imho not self-consistent. I'm not used to inconsistent comics on XKCD (unless it's done on purpose for humorous effect which in this case seems not to be true). Thus my irritation. [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 11:13, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
:::They are clearly in England (or the Anglosphere in general, though English isn't the official language in the US, merely customary) and by the Rules Of Summoning an English/etc 'bear' ''must'' only respond to the locality-sanctioned word (said with intent, not a coincidentally homophonic collection of syllables, not saying the exact same word but in the sense of being actually quoting a different language that uses the same word).
:::I theorise that the Welsh are saying ''their'' bear-name in slightly the wrong accent for being useful to summon a Welsh bear (maybe it should be more "Ardd"?) due to excessive Anglicisation. Or the Celtic way of not-saying-the-true-Celtic-word is to habitually say the Anglic one, which thus does not count. Or the Welsh bears are just confused by the current trend for dual-language signage and expect/require both. (Welsh then English in one half of the country, English followed by Welsh in the other part of the nation.) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.208|141.101.98.208]] 12:55, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
:::If we're worried about consistency here, how is it that all the Romance language speakers (e.g. Orso for Italians, Oso for Spaniards, etc) get away without being constantly mauled? Perhaps it's only the *true* name of the bear, -rkto, that summons the animal. I suppose that would give an explanation of why we don't see any Indo-European speakers around nowadays... [[User:Gbisaga|Gbisaga]] ([[User talk:Gbisaga|talk]]) 13:37, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
:::*NOTE* I've added an explanation that attempts to summarize this consistency discussion. But somebody reverted it. Why? It doesn't seem out of line, compared to a lot of what I read on explainxkcd. [[User:Gbisaga|Gbisaga]] ([[User talk:Gbisaga|talk]]) 14:29, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

:: It need not be so complicated. Perhaps there is only 1 ur-bear (ha ha) that can teleport when it hears the magic word. If the magic word is said many times every day in Wales, that ur-bear would be exhausted by teleportation and only rarely does saying the name cause it to do so. Whereas in English, the first time in years it has been summoned is in this comic, so of course it comes. [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 19:54, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
: Or simply the summoning only works when the true name is said in the currently spoken language (English), not as a foreign word. And consistency on how it works or doesn't work in other languages is really really overthinking, as this comics is not about other languages and says nothing on summoning technicalities.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.68.66|141.101.68.66]] 00:53, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
:: How does the bear know which language is spoken, though... Besides, I'm not sure if this is overthinking if it's basically the first thought I had regarding this comic. [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 12:34, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Fascinating! In Russian, the word for bear is also euphemistic, pronounced as ''medved'', which roughly means "knowledgeable about honey". But until today, I thought that something like "ber" is in fact its true name. Turns out it's not even that. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.238.236|162.158.238.236]] 14:02, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
: Actually, ''medved'' is 'honey-eater', see these two links (in Russian) https://pikabu.ru/story/kto_krayniy_za_medvedem_fenomen_tabu_v_lingvistike_5812897 and https://pikabu.ru/story/kak_rabotaet_istoricheskaya_lingvistika2_v_berloge_yetimologa_5817400 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.183.205|162.158.183.205]] 16:14, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
::Accurate! [[User:Lettherebedarklight|aoijgpisbHtejsykl7ekderhtsjk6r64os4kys\\\[]jsrtjgdrghtvgwrhtejyku5dli6;78t7l6rk5j4h|||||#Rty-----WWWWWWfflfllfllfllfeogk0q9wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww4-cv;c;;c;c[;]z\]d;v[\]????????OH GOD IT'S CRASIHNG MY PC��]] ([[User talk:Lettherebedarklight|talk]]) 06:40, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
:I've just been down a Wikipedia rabbit-hole, because of this information, to try to work out why I don't remember it being reported that Medvedev had resigned and replaced by Mishustin. (Or replaced ''with'' him, wherever he emerged from, ''by'' Putin, to be strictly accurate.). Probably we were more concerned about the Constitutional changes, then 'other things' hit the headlines. Not comic-related, but thank you for enlightening me on both linguistic and (as a side-effect) political subjects. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.26|162.158.158.26]] 16:39, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

: What were the linguistic speculations that the header mentioned? Even if there's no source, they shouldn't be removed.

I thought the reconstruction was *rtkos, not *rktos? Wikipedia agrees: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/h₂ŕ̥tḱos [[Special:Contributions/162.158.183.205|162.158.183.205]] 16:14, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
: You’re absolutely correct. Not only is the thorn cluster backwards according to the most commonly accepted reconstruction, it also has the wrong velar (should be *k̑, not *k), AND the laryngeal is missing. The syllabicity marker on the *r is also missing, though the nature of the right-to-left syllabification rule means that the *r would at least automatically be syllabified anyway. This was the main thing that really bothered me about this comic, along with the fact that the expected English form would absolutely not be ''**arth'', but ''*urth'' (or perhaps just ''*ur'' (OE ''*urh-'').
: So yes, there’s an awful lot wrong with the actual linguistics in this one. Which is very disappointing. :-( [[Special:Contributions/162.158.134.40|162.158.134.40]] 09:40, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

I bet a dollar that the long-lost English word for "bear" was "Voldemort". [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.242|108.162.215.242]] 01:03, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

: Oh-oh. You said it. This is why you need to create an account - you don't want people randomly summoning you by your true name "Mr/Ms 108.162.215.242" !! [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 17:48, 5 November 2020 (UTC) (Not my real name which is...oh wait...nearly got me there!)

In Finnish bear is karhu, which is also an euphemistic word meaning "the rough one". There are many other words for bear as well, such as kontio (one that walks slowly), nalle ("bear" in Swedish), mesikämmen (the nectar palm), metsän kuningas (the king of the forest), kouko/kouvo (some kind of ghost?), otava (this one would take way too long to explain) and finally oksi/ohto/otso, which likely is the true name. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.238.239|162.158.238.239]] 11:46, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

A safe name to avoid the name of something dangerous is known as [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noa-name noa-name] [https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/noa (further reference)]. You find it also for the wolf, devil, god, leprechauns etc. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.215|162.158.154.215]] 20:51, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

The etymological joke might be on the comic writer - hrtkos might be itself a euphemism, cognate with a word in Sanskrit that meant "destroyer" - possibly "hive destroyer."
"''there is also a suggestion that the original PIE word for bear, *rkso- (or its variants) is itself descriptive, meaning "destroyer (perhaps of beehives)", because a cognate word in Sanskrit is "rakshas", meaning "harm, injury''""
Who really knows? Same source identifies the name in Lithuanian as a different euphemism - "the shaggy one." And wonders about a German, a Slav, and a Balt arguing about the best circumlocution while being careful not to slip up and make themselves an xkcd punchline. Anyway, it's a fun read: [https://charlierussellbears.com/LinguisticArchaeology.html] [[User:Jd2718|Jd2718]] ([[User talk:Jd2718|talk]]) 22:52, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

I wonder if the fact that the brown bear (aka grizzly) has been disappearing from most of North-America as the Germanic languages expanded there, could be cited as (weak) evidence that the euphemism actually prevents bears from appearing.--[[User:Pere prlpz|Pere prlpz]] ([[User talk:Pere prlpz|talk]]) 13:12, 6 November 2020 (UTC)