explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

Talk:3022: Making Tea

2024-12-11T09:01:08Z

141.101.98.23:

I wonder where [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Tea_Party making it in Boston Harbor, at ambient temperature, at scale] would fit on this scale. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.162|172.70.206.162]] 04:38, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
: A little to the left of the microwave thing. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.186.252|162.158.186.252]] 05:14, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:: Oh, no, much further to the right. You stole our colony from us, set up some tinpot, pretended 'country' in its place, and you didn't even have the class to make a decent cup of tea first. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.93|12.68.205.93]] 06:24, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:: And, even if [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68085304 this guy] is right, ''way'' too much salt... [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.130|172.70.91.130]] 07:03, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
::: Soyuz nyerushimyy respublik svobodnik... [[User:DollarStoreBa'al|DollarStoreBa'al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al|talk]]) 14:13, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:::: Well maybe if you didnt force us to buy discounted tea from you after fighting a war for us, we wouldn't be in this situation. [[User:Apollo11|Apollo11]] ([[User talk:Apollo11|talk]]) 15:43, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
::::: Yeah, a tiny island should not have that much control over a fractionable part of a continent [[User:Danger Kitty|Danger Kitty]] ([[User talk:Danger Kitty|talk]])
: I would like to as a british person to corroborate this, in the 80's my Dad visited the USA (he did go to florida) and still is complaining that the freshly boiled water wasn't poured directly onto the tea bag but was instead the tea bag and the hot water(now luke warm water) and bag was delivered separately!!! The delivery of freshly boiling water on to the bag is the major issue with microwaves, not the nucleation thing in my experience. Bear in mind I don't even actually like tea, still care enough to right this, but i'll be signing this anonymously to avoid shame being bought on my family and my family's familys. Murderous royals are a lot less popular the tea [[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.227|108.162.245.227]]
:: I first visited the US in 1980. A friend who was with hate coffee and was horrified when he ordered tea that he got the water and the tea bag separately. When he suggested they add the water as soon as it was boiled, the wait staff thought he was joking. Many years later in Texas, a waiter asked me why I, a Brit, was drinking coffee, not tea. "You don't know how to make it," I replied. (In my house, the electric kettle and teapot sit next to each other on the kitchen worktop.)--[[Special:Contributions/172.70.160.135|172.70.160.135]] 09:22, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

When I make ramen, I put the measuring cup in the microwave. Fight me. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.167.87|162.158.167.87]] 05:35, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:: On behalf of the British Empire: whateva. [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 18:28, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

"...to the point virtually every home has an electric tea kettle as a standard appliance". If I'm reading it correctly, this and the comic suggests we (though not I, as I'm not a tea-drinker) make tea ''in the electric kettle''. Electric tea-urns, yes, or maybe a setup like a samovar. But, generally, the kettle itself (and, so far as I'm aware, always with an electric kettle) is used to heat the water, which you then pour into the tea''pot'' into which the requisite number of tealeaves/teabags are also put to steep. (Or, for the lazy way, into the mug-with-teabag.) I wouldn't be able to use my electric kettle to (for example) make my instant mashed-potato into the actual mash, if I'd have regularly used it to mash tea. Or top up the boiling saucepan that I'd realised I'd not quite enough water in to cover the pasta/vegetables/whatever. Or to easily add nust a little more heat (with less new water) to the washing-up bowl than would be possible from the hot tap, back to as hot as possible without scalding me. – Whether intentional or not, I suspect Randall has the role of kettle and teapot mixed up, and so (without the intent to parody) has the editor who wrote the above. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.160.135|172.70.160.135]] 05:49, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:: Agree, we make tea in a mug using water from a kettle. I'd be furious if an American made tea in my kettle, how will I then make up my instant Nescafe? [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 18:28, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

I don't think the section on 'Boiling the water in a pot' refers to a teapot - I think it means boiling the water in a pot on the hob, and then making tea with it (in a pot/mug). [[Special:Contributions/172.69.195.27|172.69.195.27]] 07:53, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:I agree, but I also think there's a language issue with the use of pot vs. pan that makes things more confusing. I think there are several types of cookware that Americans call pot and British call pan. So British would not say they boil water in a pot but rather in a saucepan (if there's no kettle available of course). [[User:Mtcv|Mtcv]] ([[User talk:Mtcv|talk]]) 09:03, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

I (as Brit) am uncommon in using an electric filter coffee machine to make tea (two bags in what is supposed to be the coffee filter). Set up, press the button and come back to a not jug of fresh tea which is not stewed. If later, the hot plate has shut off and it is cold, you can zap it in a mug in the microwave. [[User:RIIW - Ponder it|RIIW - Ponder it]] ([[User talk:RIIW - Ponder it|talk]]) 08:11, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
: As another brit, what? I do not understand the mechanics of this, please elaborate. Additionally, my understanding is that the water would be *briefly acquainted* with the tea, thus would be a poor facsimile of "tea" and would rather be closer to something the americans would attempt. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.126|141.101.99.126]] 11:46, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
::I'm guessing the water would drip on to the teabags, then soak all the way through them and drip out into the jug, without allowing sufficient to accumulate that it would run straight out without passing fully through the bag. It's an intriguing idea. But most definitely wrong.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.239|172.70.85.239]] 17:15, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yMMTVVJI4c Technology Connections]! [[Special:Contributions/141.101.109.167|141.101.109.167]] 09:51, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

You Westerners have literally no idea how to make proper, good tea! SMH [[User:TPS|TPS]] ([[User talk:TPS|talk]]) 13:00, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

As a Brit who grew up in sight of the Yorkshire Tea factory – and worked there on occasion – and having travelled very widely around the world – including in the US – I feel I'm supposed to have an opinion. However, I have ''never'' encountered the microwaving of water as mentioned here, and I would not object to it as supposedly problematic for tea-quality reasons. I'd object for reasons of common sense. What mystifies me is the idea that kettles are tea-specific. They are for heating water, not making tea. Coffee uses hot water. Pasta, rice and potatoes use hot water. Peas, carrots, cabbage, sweetcorn...

Baking bread often involves a pan of steaming water in the oven.

"But I can boil water in a pan for cooking pasta or vegetables."

Yes, but you'll be waiting a l-o-o-o-ng time. I'll heat my water in the kettle, pour it into the now-hot pan, cook my pasta, and I'll be eating before your water is boiling.

A kettle is not a tea-making item any more than a frying pan is an omelette-making item; tea is simply one of the things you can make with water from a kettle. Hot water is a basic civilised human commodity, predating recorded history. That we should live in a mechanised world, and the Consumer Nation doesn't have water-boiling appliances as standard (saying instead "I don't have a kettle because I don't drink tea") is ludicrous.

Using a microwave rather than buying a kettle is a bit like not buying a hammer for driving in nails because you've got a big pair of pliers that will do. Sure, they're heavy lumps of metal than live in your toolbag, but they're not the right thing.

The Brits, incidentally, are not tea lovers. They are prolific consumers of awful tea that actual tea lovers wouldn't use for cleaning their drains. The most enthusiastic tea enthusiasts I've ever met were from Maryland.

It's all just social ceremony in the UK. Milk first, tea first, must use a saucer, must use a pot...tea is a British religion, not a British drink.[[User:Yorkshire Pudding|Yorkshire Pudding]] ([[User talk:Yorkshire Pudding|talk]]) 14:23, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
: How long does it take you to boil water for, let's say enough water for four people's worth of pasta, using an electric kettle? I reckon that's about 4 liters of water? I'm genuinely curious. Now also double the time, because as mentioned in the explanation, American outlets produce half the power of British outlets. And let me not fail to mention that almost all American homes have either special higher power outlets for stoves or gas powered stoves, and frequently have special high-power outlets for microwaves as well. 4 liters of water to boil takes about 5-6 minutes on a low-end American stove, about 3-4 minutes on a gas stove, and about 2 minutes on an induction stove. None of which strikes me as a particularly long time, especially when the most popular varieties of pasta in America all need to be boiled for 8+ minutes. How does this compare to twice the length of time as your electric kettle? Because if your Electric Kettle actually allows you to be eating your pasta before our water has even boiled, that would require your kettle to boil water in around -2min to -6min. And if your electric kettle can time travel, then that is truly an astonishing device. Honestly my takeaway from this is that British Stoves must be apparently heated by a single candle if "boiling water for pasta" is considered to take a "l-o-o-o-ng time". {{unsigned ip|162.158.126.161|21:51, 10 December 2024 (UTC)}}

I wonder what the Brits would feel about repurposing a single-cup coffee maker. These days, I usually put a tea bag in a mug and place it in a Keurig machine and run it (without a K-cup, of course) to deliver the hot water. Probably the wrong temperature, but fast and easy and the result is good enough. [[User:Shamino|Shamino]] ([[User talk:Shamino|talk]]) 14:52, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Would any British person care to evaluate my tea making practices? Boil water in electric kettle. Pour water over teabag, allow to steep, remove teabag. Add sugar and ice cubes. [[User:RegularSizedGuy|RegularSizedGuy]] ([[User talk:RegularSizedGuy|talk]]) 15:54, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:...well, seems a fairly standard "making one mug of tea for oneself" process. It lacks a milk-adding stage (thus no arguments about whether before or after the water). Removing the teabag at that point probably means it's not going to become a Builders' Brew, which is your choicd. Sugar is ok. And... Waitwhat... ''Ice Cubes?!?'' ...can I get back to you on that? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.163|172.70.162.163]] 17:50, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

I can confirm (by inadvertent experiments conducted on flatmates) that they indeed do not like tea being make in the kettle. What really makes them angry though is making coffee in the teapot. It ruins the taste of the teapot forever apparently. There is also a faction that insists that a teapot should never be washed, and washing it invokes a lesser anger.[[User:Gopher|Gopher]] ([[User talk:Gopher|talk]]) 15:56, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

On rare occasions where I don't have a kettle available, I use a microwave oven to boil water for tea. But it doesn't look and taste quite the same, and often leaves an ugly foam at the surface when the tea bag is added. This phenomenon is investigated here: https://cooking.stackexchange.com/a/22264. So the British might be right... Disclaimer: I'm neither from the UK nor from the US. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.68.126|172.69.68.126]] 16:16, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

There is a [https://www.tumblr.com/elodieunderglass/669449994039853056/wizardlyghost-silverjirachi-pidoop tumblr thread] about the topic of teamaking in microwaves, kettles, etc. Funnily enough it showed up in my Instagram reels feed just a few hours before this comic was posted. I was thinking perhaps Randall saw it too and was inspired by it? Both of them have to deal with the different ways of making tea and how "absurd" or "unconventional" (etc.) they are. Even if Randall didn't have it in mind, it's certainly a funny little coincidence. [[User:Pie Guy|Pie Guy]] ([[User talk:Pie Guy|talk]]) 16:36, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm guessing my occasional summertime practice of filling a gallon jar with water and lots of tea bags, setting it on the back porch in the sun for a few hours until the water turns dark brown, then putting the whole thing in the refrigerator and later drinking it over ice would be toward the more angry end of the spectrum.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.126.204|172.70.126.204]] 16:39, 10 December 2024 (UTC)Pat
:I think the "in the sun for a few hours" part might just be too incomprehensible to most of us, here in Britain. If we ''have'' a few hours of sun (and we're not abroad and deliberately sunburning ourselves on the beach/beside the pool in our week at the Costa Lotta budget-all-inclusivs holiday) then we're either fuming at our workdesks complaining about the louts stripping down to their shirtsleeves and splashing in the town-centre fountains or we're on our lunch-break and we ''are'' the louts stripping down to our shirtsleeves and splashing in the town-centre fountains. In neither case would sun-stewed tea be a priority. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.163|172.70.162.163]] 17:50, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Perhaps it's worth to mention how dangerous it is to boil water in a microwave. https://tastecooking.com/dangerous-microwave-water/
[[User:Mestafais|Mestafais]] ([[User talk:Mestafais|talk]]) 15:22, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

There are several comics with unmarked scales. It would be interesting if the descriptions started using pixels to point where each mark is along the line. As a rough estimate, the four points mentioned here are at X-values: 90px, 115px, 345px, and 645px, indicating that the pot method is 10% as infuriating as the chalice method - or that making tea in a pot ten times would be equally as infuriating as making it once in a chalice (at least, assuming the kettle method causes zero furons. I know of {{w|hedons and dolors}}. I guess 'furons' are a unit of fury, right? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.46.236|172.70.46.236]] 16:11, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Interesting to see the interest in editing this. Had a quick check of the last ten comics, looking at the number of edits made in the first 14 hours (the exact time this page has been around, as of me starting the check) and in total, and extrapolated to edits/day (in the case of total edits, both just to the latest edit and right up to 'now'). Thought it'd be interesting to give you my results (assuming I tallied/etc correctly)...
*3022 - 14hr: '''61''' ('''105'''/day); Total: 61 ('''105/day...''')
*3021 - 14hr: 23 (39/day); Total: 39 (11/day -> 10/day)
*3020 - 14hr: 22 (38/day); Total: 36 (10/day -> 6/day)
*3019 - 14hr: 28 (48/day); Total: 54 (17/day -> 7/day)
*3018 - 14hr: 14 (24/day); Total: 48 (4/day -> 4/day)
*3017 - 14hr: 29 (50/day); Total: 33 (32/day -> 3/day)
*3016 - 14hr: 28 (48/day); Total: 46 (4/day -> 3/day)
*3015 - 14hr: 20 (32/day); Total: '''83''' (5/day -> 5/day)
*3014 - 14hr: 40 (69/day); Total: 66 (16/day -> 3/day)
*3013 - 14hr: 36 (61/day); Total: 68 (3/day -> 3/day)
...of course, the first 14 hours probably biases to British readers/editors, and it was too fiddly to add up ''|bytes changed per edit|'' as a more useful metric than mere number of pokes. But quite a bit of interest we already have here. More edits in fourteen hours than any other article less than fourteen (indeed, 17!) days old... ;) Seems to have really hit a mark, this subject! [[Special:Contributions/172.69.195.201|172.69.195.201]] 19:21, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:This one is super weird. I may be weirdness incarnate... but... [[User:Maybe Bill Cipher|An anonymous Gravity Falls expert]] ([[User talk:Maybe Bill Cipher|talk]]) 19:33, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:Well obviously. I mean this one ''really'' matters![[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.23|141.101.98.23]] 08:52, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

I would argue that the more pessimistic interpretation of the two low-end options makes sense, rather than the more generous versions offered in the current explanation. I think the first one does literally mean making tea in the kettle, and the second one does mean boiling water in a teapot. Making tea *using* a kettle isn't anything to get mad about, it's the default practice. That should put it at the zero point of the line, but it isn't, it's to the right. On the other hand, obviously making tea *in* the kettle would incite a modest amount of rage (on the scale of zero to microwaving a mug), and it makes sense that boiling water in a teapot would incite about 50% more, as shown.[[Special:Contributions/172.69.134.160|172.69.134.160]] 19:51, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
: An American making tea in the correct way by boiling water in the kettle and then pouring that into a teapot with the tea would still probably conspire to make it badly and make the Brit angry. And Brits really do get quite upset about the idea of tea made with water boiled in a stovetop pan.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.23|141.101.98.23]] 08:55, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

There is a standard for making tea, ISO 3103: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3103, and apparently from the Royal Society of Chemistry.
And, of course, it must be really hot for in infinite improbability drive to work properly.
[[User:Lordpishky|Lordpishky]] ([[User talk:Lordpishky|talk]]) 20:24, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

All this blather and not one bit about that quintessential Kiwi staple, [https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gumboot_tea gumboot tea]. Boil the kettle (about the size of a Dutch oven), throw in handfuls of leaf black tea, and let it sit until consumed. Reheat as needed. One sip, and the source of the Commonwealth aversion to the insane Yankee habit of drinking tea black is immediately apparent. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.123.8|172.70.123.8]] 20:31, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

So, I have a Quooker that boils my water. Add tea (leaves)... done. But *don't* add milk, please.... spoil... {{unsigned|Palmpje|20:50, 10 December 2024 (UTC)}}

''Ultimately, the real difference comes down to convenience: In the USA, the standard voltage for electric appliances (including an electric kettle) is 120 volts, while it is twice that (240 volts in practice, though nominally 230V) in the UK. Since the amperage for an electric kettle is the the same in both countries (15 amps), this means that an equivalent kettle in the UK has twice the power (3.2kw versus 1.6kw), and can heat the water in a fraction of the time. Meanwhile, a standard microwave has a similar power in both countries (from 700 to 1000 watts), for reasons unrelated to the supply voltage it is equipped to use. Therefore, heating a small cup in a microwave might take a few moments longer than a kettle in the USA, but is many times slower to wait for compared to using an electric kettle in the UK.'' Electric kettles are a bit faster in the UK due to the voltage difference, but it's not that much and I highly doubt speed is the main concern here. The main 'convenience' difference between boiling water in a kettle vs a microwave is quantity: Brits usually don't just make one cup/mug of tea! On the rare occasion Americans drink tea, it's more often just the one person drinking one cup, making a microwave a convenient choice.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.233.90|162.158.233.90]] 21:40, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Add in some [https://www.foodandwine.com/why-you-should-add-salt-to-tea-8549735 salt]! '''[[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]][[User talk:42.book.addict|Talk to me!]]''' 21:44, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

It's not about voltage. They use different gauge heater wire to get the Watts wanted/allowed.

The classic UK plug is nominal 13 Amps. (The circuits may be nominal 16A but there is now better insulation than in 1949.) At 230 Volts that would be 3KW (near enuff). That will be the "legal numbers". At 240V it may be 3,250W true. OTOH a 10V sag might be expected in all but the poshest wall-wiring.

amazon.co.uk sells kettles nearly all rated 3KW. Exceptions are Greepas at 1800W ("However, some customers have reported that it's very slow to boil"); also Philips 2200W, Daewoo 1400W, and OLEGA 1500W 'Fast Boiling'.

OTOH!!

On Amazon US site nearly all kettles are 1500W, a few lower like 1100W. At assumed 120V 1500W is 12.5Amps. 15Amp circuits are still common in older houses (despite changes in 1960s) but we supposed to de-rate for 'long-running' (not clearly specified in old code) so 12 Amps is in a ballpark.

Note that all US kettles are lower power than all but the tamest UK kettles. Essentially half power.

And IIRC, the 13/16A rating which allows super-power kettles in the UK was not for tea but for "electric fire", room heat. In post-War rebuilding, smokey coal was already depreciated in cities, steam plumbing and chimneys are expensive. Copper wire is costly too, but you "have" to have electric, and low-cost plans like ring-main were investigated.
[[User:PRR|PRR]] ([[User talk:PRR|talk]]) 22:44, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

"accept that tea-appropriate boiling water can be obtained directly from the sink's plumbing" - unless it comes out literally at boiling temperature, it isn't tea appropriate. I live in France now, and order catering bags of tea from Amazon because French tea is dismally awful, not helped at all by this fairly widespread belief that black tea steeps at 60C. When I share tea bags with friends, I have to keep reminding them, boiling! Boiling! So, see, there are worse things than using a microwave to heat the water... [[Special:Contributions/172.71.126.208|172.71.126.208]] 06:00, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
:Not boiling - OFF boiling. Higher than 60C, yes, but if you put actually boiling water straight on to the tea (or worse, boil the water with the tea in it), that's at least as bad. (And how far off the boil exactly depends on the type of tea.) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.22|141.101.98.22]] 09:00, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Talk:3022: Making Tea

2024-12-11T08:55:39Z

141.101.98.23:

Talk:3022: Making Tea

2024-12-11T08:52:00Z

141.101.98.23:

I wonder where [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Tea_Party making it in Boston Harbor, at ambient temperature, at scale] would fit on this scale. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.162|172.70.206.162]] 04:38, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
: A little to the left of the microwave thing. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.186.252|162.158.186.252]] 05:14, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:: Oh, no, much further to the right. You stole our colony from us, set up some tinpot, pretended 'country' in its place, and you didn't even have the class to make a decent cup of tea first. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.93|12.68.205.93]] 06:24, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:: And, even if [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68085304 this guy] is right, ''way'' too much salt... [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.130|172.70.91.130]] 07:03, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
::: Soyuz nyerushimyy respublik svobodnik... [[User:DollarStoreBa'al|DollarStoreBa'al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al|talk]]) 14:13, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:::: Well maybe if you didnt force us to buy discounted tea from you after fighting a war for us, we wouldn't be in this situation. [[User:Apollo11|Apollo11]] ([[User talk:Apollo11|talk]]) 15:43, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
::::: Yeah, a tiny island should not have that much control over a fractionable part of a continent [[User:Danger Kitty|Danger Kitty]] ([[User talk:Danger Kitty|talk]])
: I would like to as a british person to corroborate this, in the 80's my Dad visited the USA (he did go to florida) and still is complaining that the freshly boiled water wasn't poured directly onto the tea bag but was instead the tea bag and the hot water(now luke warm water) and bag was delivered separately!!! The delivery of freshly boiling water on to the bag is the major issue with microwaves, not the nucleation thing in my experience. Bear in mind I don't even actually like tea, still care enough to right this, but i'll be signing this anonymously to avoid shame being bought on my family and my family's familys. Murderous royals are a lot less popular the tea [[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.227|108.162.245.227]]
:: I first visited the US in 1980. A friend who was with hate coffee and was horrified when he ordered tea that he got the water and the tea bag separately. When he suggested they add the water as soon as it was boiled, the wait staff thought he was joking. Many years later in Texas, a waiter asked me why I, a Brit, was drinking coffee, not tea. "You don't know how to make it," I replied. (In my house, the electric kettle and teapot sit next to each other on the kitchen worktop.)--[[Special:Contributions/172.70.160.135|172.70.160.135]] 09:22, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

When I make ramen, I put the measuring cup in the microwave. Fight me. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.167.87|162.158.167.87]] 05:35, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:: On behalf of the British Empire: whateva. [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 18:28, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

"...to the point virtually every home has an electric tea kettle as a standard appliance". If I'm reading it correctly, this and the comic suggests we (though not I, as I'm not a tea-drinker) make tea ''in the electric kettle''. Electric tea-urns, yes, or maybe a setup like a samovar. But, generally, the kettle itself (and, so far as I'm aware, always with an electric kettle) is used to heat the water, which you then pour into the tea''pot'' into which the requisite number of tealeaves/teabags are also put to steep. (Or, for the lazy way, into the mug-with-teabag.) I wouldn't be able to use my electric kettle to (for example) make my instant mashed-potato into the actual mash, if I'd have regularly used it to mash tea. Or top up the boiling saucepan that I'd realised I'd not quite enough water in to cover the pasta/vegetables/whatever. Or to easily add nust a little more heat (with less new water) to the washing-up bowl than would be possible from the hot tap, back to as hot as possible without scalding me. – Whether intentional or not, I suspect Randall has the role of kettle and teapot mixed up, and so (without the intent to parody) has the editor who wrote the above. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.160.135|172.70.160.135]] 05:49, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:: Agree, we make tea in a mug using water from a kettle. I'd be furious if an American made tea in my kettle, how will I then make up my instant Nescafe? [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 18:28, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

I don't think the section on 'Boiling the water in a pot' refers to a teapot - I think it means boiling the water in a pot on the hob, and then making tea with it (in a pot/mug). [[Special:Contributions/172.69.195.27|172.69.195.27]] 07:53, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:I agree, but I also think there's a language issue with the use of pot vs. pan that makes things more confusing. I think there are several types of cookware that Americans call pot and British call pan. So British would not say they boil water in a pot but rather in a saucepan (if there's no kettle available of course). [[User:Mtcv|Mtcv]] ([[User talk:Mtcv|talk]]) 09:03, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

I (as Brit) am uncommon in using an electric filter coffee machine to make tea (two bags in what is supposed to be the coffee filter). Set up, press the button and come back to a not jug of fresh tea which is not stewed. If later, the hot plate has shut off and it is cold, you can zap it in a mug in the microwave. [[User:RIIW - Ponder it|RIIW - Ponder it]] ([[User talk:RIIW - Ponder it|talk]]) 08:11, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
: As another brit, what? I do not understand the mechanics of this, please elaborate. Additionally, my understanding is that the water would be *briefly acquainted* with the tea, thus would be a poor facsimile of "tea" and would rather be closer to something the americans would attempt. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.126|141.101.99.126]] 11:46, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
::I'm guessing the water would drip on to the teabags, then soak all the way through them and drip out into the jug, without allowing sufficient to accumulate that it would run straight out without passing fully through the bag. It's an intriguing idea. But most definitely wrong.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.239|172.70.85.239]] 17:15, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yMMTVVJI4c Technology Connections]! [[Special:Contributions/141.101.109.167|141.101.109.167]] 09:51, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

You Westerners have literally no idea how to make proper, good tea! SMH [[User:TPS|TPS]] ([[User talk:TPS|talk]]) 13:00, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

As a Brit who grew up in sight of the Yorkshire Tea factory – and worked there on occasion – and having travelled very widely around the world – including in the US – I feel I'm supposed to have an opinion. However, I have ''never'' encountered the microwaving of water as mentioned here, and I would not object to it as supposedly problematic for tea-quality reasons. I'd object for reasons of common sense. What mystifies me is the idea that kettles are tea-specific. They are for heating water, not making tea. Coffee uses hot water. Pasta, rice and potatoes use hot water. Peas, carrots, cabbage, sweetcorn...

Baking bread often involves a pan of steaming water in the oven.

"But I can boil water in a pan for cooking pasta or vegetables."

Yes, but you'll be waiting a l-o-o-o-ng time. I'll heat my water in the kettle, pour it into the now-hot pan, cook my pasta, and I'll be eating before your water is boiling.

A kettle is not a tea-making item any more than a frying pan is an omelette-making item; tea is simply one of the things you can make with water from a kettle. Hot water is a basic civilised human commodity, predating recorded history. That we should live in a mechanised world, and the Consumer Nation doesn't have water-boiling appliances as standard (saying instead "I don't have a kettle because I don't drink tea") is ludicrous.

Using a microwave rather than buying a kettle is a bit like not buying a hammer for driving in nails because you've got a big pair of pliers that will do. Sure, they're heavy lumps of metal than live in your toolbag, but they're not the right thing.

The Brits, incidentally, are not tea lovers. They are prolific consumers of awful tea that actual tea lovers wouldn't use for cleaning their drains. The most enthusiastic tea enthusiasts I've ever met were from Maryland.

It's all just social ceremony in the UK. Milk first, tea first, must use a saucer, must use a pot...tea is a British religion, not a British drink.[[User:Yorkshire Pudding|Yorkshire Pudding]] ([[User talk:Yorkshire Pudding|talk]]) 14:23, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
: How long does it take you to boil water for, let's say enough water for four people's worth of pasta, using an electric kettle? I reckon that's about 4 liters of water? I'm genuinely curious. Now also double the time, because as mentioned in the explanation, American outlets produce half the power of British outlets. And let me not fail to mention that almost all American homes have either special higher power outlets for stoves or gas powered stoves, and frequently have special high-power outlets for microwaves as well. 4 liters of water to boil takes about 5-6 minutes on a low-end American stove, about 3-4 minutes on a gas stove, and about 2 minutes on an induction stove. None of which strikes me as a particularly long time, especially when the most popular varieties of pasta in America all need to be boiled for 8+ minutes. How does this compare to twice the length of time as your electric kettle? Because if your Electric Kettle actually allows you to be eating your pasta before our water has even boiled, that would require your kettle to boil water in around -2min to -6min. And if your electric kettle can time travel, then that is truly an astonishing device. Honestly my takeaway from this is that British Stoves must be apparently heated by a single candle if "boiling water for pasta" is considered to take a "l-o-o-o-ng time". {{unsigned ip|162.158.126.161|21:51, 10 December 2024 (UTC)}}

I wonder what the Brits would feel about repurposing a single-cup coffee maker. These days, I usually put a tea bag in a mug and place it in a Keurig machine and run it (without a K-cup, of course) to deliver the hot water. Probably the wrong temperature, but fast and easy and the result is good enough. [[User:Shamino|Shamino]] ([[User talk:Shamino|talk]]) 14:52, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Would any British person care to evaluate my tea making practices? Boil water in electric kettle. Pour water over teabag, allow to steep, remove teabag. Add sugar and ice cubes. [[User:RegularSizedGuy|RegularSizedGuy]] ([[User talk:RegularSizedGuy|talk]]) 15:54, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:...well, seems a fairly standard "making one mug of tea for oneself" process. It lacks a milk-adding stage (thus no arguments about whether before or after the water). Removing the teabag at that point probably means it's not going to become a Builders' Brew, which is your choicd. Sugar is ok. And... Waitwhat... ''Ice Cubes?!?'' ...can I get back to you on that? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.163|172.70.162.163]] 17:50, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

I can confirm (by inadvertent experiments conducted on flatmates) that they indeed do not like tea being make in the kettle. What really makes them angry though is making coffee in the teapot. It ruins the taste of the teapot forever apparently. There is also a faction that insists that a teapot should never be washed, and washing it invokes a lesser anger.[[User:Gopher|Gopher]] ([[User talk:Gopher|talk]]) 15:56, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

On rare occasions where I don't have a kettle available, I use a microwave oven to boil water for tea. But it doesn't look and taste quite the same, and often leaves an ugly foam at the surface when the tea bag is added. This phenomenon is investigated here: https://cooking.stackexchange.com/a/22264. So the British might be right... Disclaimer: I'm neither from the UK nor from the US. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.68.126|172.69.68.126]] 16:16, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

There is a [https://www.tumblr.com/elodieunderglass/669449994039853056/wizardlyghost-silverjirachi-pidoop tumblr thread] about the topic of teamaking in microwaves, kettles, etc. Funnily enough it showed up in my Instagram reels feed just a few hours before this comic was posted. I was thinking perhaps Randall saw it too and was inspired by it? Both of them have to deal with the different ways of making tea and how "absurd" or "unconventional" (etc.) they are. Even if Randall didn't have it in mind, it's certainly a funny little coincidence. [[User:Pie Guy|Pie Guy]] ([[User talk:Pie Guy|talk]]) 16:36, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm guessing my occasional summertime practice of filling a gallon jar with water and lots of tea bags, setting it on the back porch in the sun for a few hours until the water turns dark brown, then putting the whole thing in the refrigerator and later drinking it over ice would be toward the more angry end of the spectrum.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.126.204|172.70.126.204]] 16:39, 10 December 2024 (UTC)Pat
:I think the "in the sun for a few hours" part might just be too incomprehensible to most of us, here in Britain. If we ''have'' a few hours of sun (and we're not abroad and deliberately sunburning ourselves on the beach/beside the pool in our week at the Costa Lotta budget-all-inclusivs holiday) then we're either fuming at our workdesks complaining about the louts stripping down to their shirtsleeves and splashing in the town-centre fountains or we're on our lunch-break and we ''are'' the louts stripping down to our shirtsleeves and splashing in the town-centre fountains. In neither case would sun-stewed tea be a priority. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.163|172.70.162.163]] 17:50, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Perhaps it's worth to mention how dangerous it is to boil water in a microwave. https://tastecooking.com/dangerous-microwave-water/
[[User:Mestafais|Mestafais]] ([[User talk:Mestafais|talk]]) 15:22, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

There are several comics with unmarked scales. It would be interesting if the descriptions started using pixels to point where each mark is along the line. As a rough estimate, the four points mentioned here are at X-values: 90px, 115px, 345px, and 645px, indicating that the pot method is 10% as infuriating as the chalice method - or that making tea in a pot ten times would be equally as infuriating as making it once in a chalice (at least, assuming the kettle method causes zero furons. I know of {{w|hedons and dolors}}. I guess 'furons' are a unit of fury, right? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.46.236|172.70.46.236]] 16:11, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Interesting to see the interest in editing this. Had a quick check of the last ten comics, looking at the number of edits made in the first 14 hours (the exact time this page has been around, as of me starting the check) and in total, and extrapolated to edits/day (in the case of total edits, both just to the latest edit and right up to 'now'). Thought it'd be interesting to give you my results (assuming I tallied/etc correctly)...
*3022 - 14hr: '''61''' ('''105'''/day); Total: 61 ('''105/day...''')
*3021 - 14hr: 23 (39/day); Total: 39 (11/day -> 10/day)
*3020 - 14hr: 22 (38/day); Total: 36 (10/day -> 6/day)
*3019 - 14hr: 28 (48/day); Total: 54 (17/day -> 7/day)
*3018 - 14hr: 14 (24/day); Total: 48 (4/day -> 4/day)
*3017 - 14hr: 29 (50/day); Total: 33 (32/day -> 3/day)
*3016 - 14hr: 28 (48/day); Total: 46 (4/day -> 3/day)
*3015 - 14hr: 20 (32/day); Total: '''83''' (5/day -> 5/day)
*3014 - 14hr: 40 (69/day); Total: 66 (16/day -> 3/day)
*3013 - 14hr: 36 (61/day); Total: 68 (3/day -> 3/day)
...of course, the first 14 hours probably biases to British readers/editors, and it was too fiddly to add up ''|bytes changed per edit|'' as a more useful metric than mere number of pokes. But quite a bit of interest we already have here. More edits in fourteen hours than any other article less than fourteen (indeed, 17!) days old... ;) Seems to have really hit a mark, this subject! [[Special:Contributions/172.69.195.201|172.69.195.201]] 19:21, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:This one is super weird. I may be weirdness incarnate... but... [[User:Maybe Bill Cipher|An anonymous Gravity Falls expert]] ([[User talk:Maybe Bill Cipher|talk]]) 19:33, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:Well obviously. I mean this one ''really'' matters![[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.23|141.101.98.23]] 08:52, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

I would argue that the more pessimistic interpretation of the two low-end options makes sense, rather than the more generous versions offered in the current explanation. I think the first one does literally mean making tea in the kettle, and the second one does mean boiling water in a teapot. Making tea *using* a kettle isn't anything to get mad about, it's the default practice. That should put it at the zero point of the line, but it isn't, it's to the right. On the other hand, obviously making tea *in* the kettle would incite a modest amount of rage (on the scale of zero to microwaving a mug), and it makes sense that boiling water in a teapot would incite about 50% more, as shown.[[Special:Contributions/172.69.134.160|172.69.134.160]] 19:51, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

There is a standard for making tea, ISO 3103: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3103, and apparently from the Royal Society of Chemistry.
And, of course, it must be really hot for in infinite improbability drive to work properly.
[[User:Lordpishky|Lordpishky]] ([[User talk:Lordpishky|talk]]) 20:24, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

All this blather and not one bit about that quintessential Kiwi staple, [https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gumboot_tea gumboot tea]. Boil the kettle (about the size of a Dutch oven), throw in handfuls of leaf black tea, and let it sit until consumed. Reheat as needed. One sip, and the source of the Commonwealth aversion to the insane Yankee habit of drinking tea black is immediately apparent. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.123.8|172.70.123.8]] 20:31, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

So, I have a Quooker that boils my water. Add tea (leaves)... done. But *don't* add milk, please.... spoil... {{unsigned|Palmpje|20:50, 10 December 2024 (UTC)}}

''Ultimately, the real difference comes down to convenience: In the USA, the standard voltage for electric appliances (including an electric kettle) is 120 volts, while it is twice that (240 volts in practice, though nominally 230V) in the UK. Since the amperage for an electric kettle is the the same in both countries (15 amps), this means that an equivalent kettle in the UK has twice the power (3.2kw versus 1.6kw), and can heat the water in a fraction of the time. Meanwhile, a standard microwave has a similar power in both countries (from 700 to 1000 watts), for reasons unrelated to the supply voltage it is equipped to use. Therefore, heating a small cup in a microwave might take a few moments longer than a kettle in the USA, but is many times slower to wait for compared to using an electric kettle in the UK.'' Electric kettles are a bit faster in the UK due to the voltage difference, but it's not that much and I highly doubt speed is the main concern here. The main 'convenience' difference between boiling water in a kettle vs a microwave is quantity: Brits usually don't just make one cup/mug of tea! On the rare occasion Americans drink tea, it's more often just the one person drinking one cup, making a microwave a convenient choice.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.233.90|162.158.233.90]] 21:40, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Add in some [https://www.foodandwine.com/why-you-should-add-salt-to-tea-8549735 salt]! '''[[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]][[User talk:42.book.addict|Talk to me!]]''' 21:44, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

It's not about voltage. They use different gauge heater wire to get the Watts wanted/allowed.

The classic UK plug is nominal 13 Amps. (The circuits may be nominal 16A but there is now better insulation than in 1949.) At 230 Volts that would be 3KW (near enuff). That will be the "legal numbers". At 240V it may be 3,250W true. OTOH a 10V sag might be expected in all but the poshest wall-wiring.

amazon.co.uk sells kettles nearly all rated 3KW. Exceptions are Greepas at 1800W ("However, some customers have reported that it's very slow to boil"); also Philips 2200W, Daewoo 1400W, and OLEGA 1500W 'Fast Boiling'.

OTOH!!

On Amazon US site nearly all kettles are 1500W, a few lower like 1100W. At assumed 120V 1500W is 12.5Amps. 15Amp circuits are still common in older houses (despite changes in 1960s) but we supposed to de-rate for 'long-running' (not clearly specified in old code) so 12 Amps is in a ballpark.

Note that all US kettles are lower power than all but the tamest UK kettles. Essentially half power.

And IIRC, the 13/16A rating which allows super-power kettles in the UK was not for tea but for "electric fire", room heat. In post-War rebuilding, smokey coal was already depreciated in cities, steam plumbing and chimneys are expensive. Copper wire is costly too, but you "have" to have electric, and low-cost plans like ring-main were investigated.
[[User:PRR|PRR]] ([[User talk:PRR|talk]]) 22:44, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

"accept that tea-appropriate boiling water can be obtained directly from the sink's plumbing" - unless it comes out literally at boiling temperature, it isn't tea appropriate. I live in France now, and order catering bags of tea from Amazon because French tea is dismally awful, not helped at all by this fairly widespread belief that black tea steeps at 60C. When I share tea bags with friends, I have to keep reminding them, boiling! Boiling! So, see, there are worse things than using a microwave to heat the water... [[Special:Contributions/172.71.126.208|172.71.126.208]] 06:00, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

User talk:42.book.addict

2024-10-10T18:23:57Z

141.101.98.23: /* Adding the "please sign"/etc comments. */ new section

== introductions ==
Just replying to your message (also dw no big deal for bothering me)
You click on your username and there should be an edit box. --[[User:1234231587678|1234231587678]] ([[User talk:1234231587678|talk]]) 04:58, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
:it says that i dont have permission to create the page…
: There is currently no text in this page. You can search for this page title in other pages, or search the related logs, but you do not have permission to create this page. it says [[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]] ([[User talk:42.book.addict|talk]]) 19:33, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

I think you might have to wait some time (like a timer) until you can edit your own page... I think I only got to edit my page after 1 month of creating my account.--[[User:1234231587678|1234231587678]] ([[User talk:1234231587678|talk]]) 21:31, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
:ok, thx [[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]] ([[User talk:42.book.addict|talk]]) 21:52, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

My guess on where you live is somewhere in the GMT zone, so United Kingdom.--[[User:1234231587678|1234231587678]] ([[User talk:1234231587678|talk]]) 03:43, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
:nope, im a california girl :) ([[User talk:42.book.addict|talk]]) 05:04, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

lol you never know with utc times --[[User:1234231587678|1234231587678]] ([[User talk:1234231587678|talk]]) 16:52, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

== citation needed tips==
You seem to be taking to heart the punctuation-before-the-Citation-needed standard (which is good, only sometimes it's even more complicated{{Citation needed}}),{{Citation needed}} but I see you recased an example of {{template|citation needed}} to {{template|Citation Needed}}, earlier. Now, it doesn't really matter because there are templates for "citation needed" and "Citation Needed". And also "cn" plus "fact" for the really lazy editors. ;) Anyway, all of these (maybe more, I'd have to check) redirect to the ''main'' "Citation needed" one. (Reflected in {{template|Actual citation needed}}, where "actual citation needed" ''plus'' "acn" redirect there, although {{template|Actual Citation Needed}} - "for completeness" - is actually a 'copy' template in its own right.) I wouldn't bother ''only'' changing various CN variations to "Citation needed"s (there ''is'' also a {{template|Citation neededs}}, but that's a '''s'''truckthrough version of "Citation needed" rather than an ungrammatical "Citation''s'' needed"!), but if you're already editing anything else, it would not at all hurt to get everything to capital-C small-n version. It gives the server ''very very slightly'' less work to do. ;) Probably. Not that it matters. But, as you seem to be a 'details person', I thought I'd pass on a detail you may not have already known... :p [[Special:Contributions/172.69.195.156|172.69.195.156]] 02:11, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
:You have not read the above (properly, at least). The {{template|Citation needed}} is the 'proper' one (for xkcd version of 'proper'), whilst {{template|cn}} is a lazy version that redirects. There's no reason at all to change "Citation needed" to "cn". (Not much reason to change the other way, either, but could be justified if one is editing something else..)
:I reverted the one where you made the "SIGHTation needed" into a CN, as that was clearly a deliberate variation by some past wag. No point changing it to the (not-quite-)standard one. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.194.115|172.69.194.115]] 17:31, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
::Oh, I’m so sorry. I didn’t read your message until now. I’ll start using “Citation needed” instead of cn. Thanks for the heads up! [[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]] ([[User talk:42.book.addict|talk]]) 17:35, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
:::And if you expect me to reply to you immediately, sorry! I’m at school right now, and it’s completely impractical to be listening to a lecture and editing ExplainXKCD at the same time. [[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]] ([[User talk:42.book.addict|talk]]) 17:35, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
::::No worries. I was busy myself, and already a bit slow to jump in and let you know, just knowing you'd probably see the above better/sooner than a revert-edit summary. ;)
::::Functionally, all identical. Just the practical need for it was balanced the other way. Can't fault you for identifying the need to shift the punctuation. (I may do that in passing, with some other edit in mind... had to specifically redo it on the reverted SIGHTation article, i.e. on the true Citation one that was wrong, because I'd meant to keep ''that'' valid change but got distracted by a phone-call...)
::::Anyway, welcome to the community, I just hope you do more helpful things than troublesome ones. (Heck, I still hope *I* do that, even after a number of years. ;) [[Special:Contributions/172.71.242.207|172.71.242.207]] 18:00, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
:::::thanks! (btw, are you saying that my edits are troublesome?) [[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]] ([[User talk:42.book.addict|talk]]) 18:01, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
::::::Well, I wasn't. Just hoping that (through errors/misunderstandings) you still end up on the right side of trouble/not-trouble, on average. But just would like to point out that creating Jupitale's home page was ''not'' a good move. See [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=User:Jupitale&oldid=335943 my edited comment]. I'm willing to believe you did it accidentally (visited their non-existing page, thus ended up creating it), and some mod or other may be along to clean it up at some point. Before or after that whole login is 'looked sternly at'. But shouldn't concern you if you're just being helpful and don't do too much of that. Anyway, enjoy your time here. (Not ''too'' much, obviously. Y'know, do your scholwork/don't vandalise wikis/all the other usual social necessities. :p ) [[Special:Contributions/172.71.242.220|172.71.242.220]] 18:20, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
:::::::oh shit ok I didn’t realise that Jupidale’s was a vandal ill be more mindful [[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]] ([[User talk:42.book.addict|talk]]) 18:30, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
::::::::My homepage is now fine thank you very much [[User:Jupitale|Jupitale]] ([[User talk:Jupitale|talk]]) 18:34, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

== New User and User Talk pages ==

You're trying to be helpful, but... Anyone who ''really'' wants them will probably ask (or wait until they have page-creation rights themself). Looking at all the ones you've made for people, how many have even then been used (by the user concerned)? I suggest you don't need to create them, not even to un-redlink someone's [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions&contribs=user&target=Cleonis&namespace=&tagfilter=&start=&end= comic discussion] .sig links. It's normally not a big concern, and there's enough people who can help out if someone actually asks for it when you're not paying attention.
 As for the rest of us: ironically, I slightly wanted to drop a note to a long-term user the other day. (Comparatively, i.e. that they've been around for a bit longer than yourself.) They didn't have a User Talk page, so I resorted to a different way of commenting. They can create their own pages, if they want (and, if I was a username myself, I definitely could have by now). Yet I definitely wouldn't consider it valid to give the whole historic userbase any such 'missing' user-spaces.
 I'm no authority on this matter, or even a 'real user' in any properly identifiable way, but please do consider my advice that comes from long but informal experience of this kind of matter. You're not the first eager new contributor to try to help out like this. And you're not the first to have made the odd error (giving a spam-only account a Welcoming page ...which thankfully never got used to further the spamming, the account seemingly abandoned by that point ''anyway''), but of course this was probably before you even started lurking here (certainly before your current username, perhaps even prior to any IP-only-editing you might have done before that). Heck, some 'helpful' people even created the occasional User and/or User Talk spaces for IPs (don't do that, either, it's at best neutrally useless - even from my own IP-wise perspective).
 You at least seem to be doing it from a genuinely helpful position. For that, I thank you, and maybe also some of those actual new users do (if they've notice. But maybe no more. Unasked for, at least? [[Special:Contributions/172.71.242.29|172.71.242.29]] 16:13, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
:postscript - even while I was writing this, it seems that one of the users who ''hadn't'' seemed to want to use their page actually went and did so. And, elsewhere, proclaimed they weren't vandalising any more. I leave it up to others to make judgements on what's happening there, and the timing with respect to other recent interactions, but still not being particular auspicious. Time will tell how this all turns out. Anyway, just to note this. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.29|172.70.90.29]] 16:29, 11 March 2024 (UTC) (Same contributor as above, regardless of what the IP may have changed to.)

== newline tips ==
Just a note from a perpetual observer about the newline thing.
:Using one or more : (at the start of a line) gives indents. If you are already indenting, then a simple newline and : (or multiple ::s, the same numbed as you were on) handles the textflow properly and ''renders'' it as a linefeed, rather than 'merely' a simple whitespace that continues. I'm doing that here.
;I can also use other markup, like the ; I used here...
:...but that's not how that is meant to be used, and...
;:...only lines up with "<nowiki>;:</nowiki>", in this case...
:;...and not with "<nowiki>:;</nowiki>" in this other. ;)
:Honestly, though, that's not what ; is to be used for. It's actually really more for ";Item:Definition of some kind", like:
;Item:Definition of some kind
:Though is often repurposed as ";Unofficial 'header' title", within Talk pages, that doesn't create a TOC entry. Just just so gou know. :p
:If you're writing at the 'zero indent' level, then a double-linefeed in the wikisource forces a line-break in the HTML, but it looks messy in viewing/re-editing the markup, so one way to avoid that is to invoke the <nowiki> </nowiki>, even in the middle of an actual wikisource line! (But that can be confusing, so don't do that without ''good'' reason.
:I also prefer to use "<nowiki> </nowiki>" (it adheres to standard non-container extensible HTML tag notation better) and like to put it at the ''start'' of the new line text rather than at the end of the old one's (but this is practically the same – I just find that seeing <nowiki> </nowiki>s at the start of every intended new line is easier to visually check than having them at random column positions according to the paragraph length that precedes it, hence it's my preference only).
:Another useful note is that when you're in a wikitable markup, the 'contents' of a cell can have linebreaks. Whether a line-started "|" or a successive midline "||" (trust me, when you're used to wikitabls markup, you'll know what I'm saying!), the ''very first'' newline in the wikisource is understood as a renderable newline (because it's not the "|"-at-start-of-line of the next column's cell, or the "|-" tween-line, otherwise expected), but you need to invoke any second, third, etc linebreaks with one or other of the br-tag/double-newline/etc methods. Otherwise it'll just be treated as whitespace and 'unwrap' into a continuous second-para. (As always, if in doubt use the Preview button, check it appears like you think it ought to.)
:But there's ''loads'' of different ways to wikimarkup various conceptual layouts, and all kinds of different styles that you could adopt. This is just a "the more you know..!" infodump, which may ''or may not'' be useful to relatively new editors like yourselves. So take note or ignore, or ignore until you suddenly realise you might need to know these things, then try to make sense of it. Or ''maybe'' I'll be around to answer further questions! [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.11|172.70.86.11]] 20:34, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
::trying to process the infodump right now-but thank you! I’ll slowly process it. [[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]] ([[User talk:42.book.addict|talk]]) 21:17, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

== Goddamn preview button ==

I always forget about that God damn preview button too :( [[User:Apollo11|Apollo11]] ([[User talk:Apollo11|talk]]) 16:24, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
:hey, higher edit score tho! [[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]] ([[User talk:42.book.addict|talk]]) 16:26, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
::True.... Welp who needs the preview button anyway [[User:Apollo11|Apollo11]] ([[User talk:Apollo11|talk]]) 16:38, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
:::Oh boiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii [[User:Z1mp0st0rz|The orange crewmate ඞ]] ([[User talk:Z1mp0st0rz|talk]]) 19:24, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

== Depends what you wanted to do... ==

Is the following what you intended? 
{{Userbox | border-c = #255 | border-s = 1 | info-s = 9 | id = [[File:trans_flag.png|45px]] | info = [[{{w|Transgender|This user is trans.}}]] | float = left }} 
{{clear}}...or is even the [[]] part not what you want?{{clear}}
{{Userbox | border-c = #255 | border-s = 1 | info-s = 9 | id = [[File:trans_flag.png|45px]] | info = {{w|Transgender|This user is trans.}} | float = left }} 
{{clear}}As brief a guide as I can manage:
*URL links use []. Although literal https://www.google.com will self-link without ''any'' wikimarkup, you probably don't want it to look like that most of the time.
** Just give the URL, as in <code><nowiki>[https://www.google.com]</nowiki></code>, to get a [https://www.google.com] (i.e. a reference number), not the best way to do it. It can be organised better with a 'References' section, but we don't do that here (they do on wikipedia, but usually with other bits to it.
** Better to give the URL and the text to use (after a space, a character that never appears raw in any proper URL). This can be <code><nowiki>[https://www.google.com Check It Out On Google!]</nowiki></code> or even <code><nowiki>[https://www.google.com https://www.microsoft.com (only kidding!)]</nowiki></code>, to give [https://www.google.com Check It Out On Google!] or [https://www.google.com https://www.microsoft.com (only kidding!)]... But perhaps best not to do the latter too much (I really didn't want to post that without the "(only kidding!)" part, in fact.)
*Internalised wikilinks use the [[]]s.
**Anything that can be found under the title, e.g. "2: Petit Trees (sketch)" (or, because of redirections, "2" and "Petit Trees (sketch)" go to the same spot, so <code><nowiki>[[2]], [[Petit Trees (sketch)]] and [[2: Petit Trees (sketch)]]</nowiki></code> gives you the literal links [[2]], [[Petit Trees (sketch)]] and [[2: Petit Trees (sketch)]]
**Or use <code><nowiki>[[2: Petit Trees (sketch)|that comic with the little trees]]</nowiki></code>, additional text separated by the 'pipe' symbol (i.e. "|"), to link to [[2: Petit Trees (sketch)|that comic with the little trees]]
**You can also link across to articles on other 'wikimedia family' sites, but I'm not going to try to summarise that, as the primary reason to do that is to go to an actual Wikipedia article, and there's a template set up to do that ''very'' nicely, already (and also a few other places, like Wiktionary, and some not-really-wikis with a similar philosphy like TVTropes). If in doubt, do it as a URL link ''or'' find a place where someone else has clearly markuped a link to the same site as you want to link to.
*So, anyway, Wikilink templates use the {{template|w}}-template, with one or two paramaters (pipe-separated). (It shortcuts the thing you'd maybe use [[]]s for
**Using <code><nowiki>{{w|article}}</nowiki></code> gives you a link to "{{w|Article}}" (it capitalises the first character, even if you don't)
**Using <code><nowiki>{{w|article|with alternate text}}</nowiki></code> gives you a link there but "{{w|article|with alternate text}}"
**If the article name has whitespace (or other 'URL-unfriendly' characters) in it, those characters in the URL (which you wouldn't want to use) will be rendered as something URL-friendly. The URL for "Whitespace (programming language)", for example, is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitespace_(programming_language) but you wouldn't normally use that so literally in any case, and definitely not when you can significanty shorten it with the {{template|w}} notation.
***What you can do is (without 'alternate link text') render it as <code><nowiki>{{w|Whitespace_(programming_language)}}</nowiki></code> - i.e. {{w|Whitespace_(programming_language)}} - but that's not nice to see 'rendered raw' when you ''want'' the spaces. You could give it alternate text via <code><nowiki>{{w|Whitespace_(programming_language)|Whitespace (programming language)}}</nowiki></code> to give {{w|Whitespace_(programming_language)|Whitespace (programming language)}} ...but that's wasteful and unnecessary.
***Instead, just do <code><nowiki>{{w|Whitespace (programming language)}}</nowiki></code> (that's the literal copy of the article's own page title, from the rendered page) - and shows as {{w|Whitespace (programming language)}} - which is good. Although <code><nowiki>{{w|Whitespace (programming language)|the programming language called Whitespace}}</nowiki></code> might be the best way to seemlessly link to {{w|Whitespace (programming language)|the programming language called Whitespace}} ...depends what you want to appear there.
***And you can link to header anchors pretty much ''like'' the URL of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitespace_(programming_language)#History by using <code><nowiki>{{w|Whitespace (programming language)#History|the history of Whitespace}}</nowiki></code> to have you show {{w|Whitespace (programming language)#History|the history of Whitespace}} or whatever else you might want to use.
**Also, for the use of a link which is singular but which you would like to include as the plural (usually the "...s" or "...es" version), you could use article-name first parameter and ''pluralised'' article name as second, but instead of <code><nowiki>{{w|Plural|Plurals}}</nowiki></code>, for a link to the {{w|Plural|Plurals}}, you can save yourself a lot of effort by doing <code><nowiki>{{w|Plural}}s</nowiki></code> to also give you a linke to {{w|Plural}}s. Magic, eh? And it also works with <code><nowiki>{{w|Ox}}en</nowiki></code> to link the different standard plural of {{w|Ox}}en to the article for "Ox" (better than linking to the word for {{w|Oxen}}, which ends up redirecting to {{w|Ox}} anyway).
...so, anyway, that's the basics. And a few not-so-basics. So if the solutions to your tagging issue aren't already solved (or even if they are!), you might have enough info here to kludge it into whatever form of infobox info text you ''really'' wanted to use. Ok? Probably far too much info for you to absorb in one go, but covers loads of interesting possibilities. About the only thing you don't want to do is wikilink straight to the word "trans", at that'll be a disambiguation page. And there's also no way (or reason?) to use the terms "trans man"/"trans woman" as the pluralised "trans men"/"trans women" versions via the "directly add the plural suffix" thing, of course. :P Anyway, FYI. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.38.217|162.158.38.217]] 20:40, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
::oh my god thank you so much [[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]] ([[User talk:42.book.addict|talk]]) 19:38, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

== gold (Gold) ==

You do know that we don't have a redirect specifically for "gold", right? We have one for "Gold". And if you search for "gold" you get sent to "[[2826: Gold]]" ''anyway''. Why would we need a "[[gold]]"->"2826: Gold" redirect as well as "[[Gold]]"->"2826: Gold"? Ok, so that "gold" link is red-texted, but you always have the option to relink with alternate text like "[[Gold|gold]]" if you absolutely must use it wrongly-cased. So, the next question is why you'd want to write [[cueball]] or [[hairbun]] links instead of [[Cueball]] or [[Hairbun]]. Either you mean their 'proper names', in which case you're supposed to capitalise them, or you're not refering to the characters but the general {{w|hairbun|hairstyle}} or {{w|cueball|snooker/pool/billiards ball}}, which means you don't want to link to the character at all. ...anyway, someone's re-added the intent-to-delete, but I thought I'd suggest why humouring wrong-cased 'fallback' redirects doesn't really help, since there are subtleties you may not have appreciated. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.194.206|172.69.194.206]] 00:09, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

== Testing e-mail alerts ==

Hi 42.book.addict 
As promised in my [[User_talk:Kynde#Setting_up_emails|reply here]] I would post a note here to see if you actually got an e-mail alert even though your e-mail doesn't seem to be confirmed. My guess is you do not... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 06:30, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

== Navbox addition ==

I can't edit it (must be semi-protected), but your good catch of adding Harris to the list really needs to be shifted over one position, Kamala being alphabetically after John. Or you could always rearrange the whole lot of politicians in a different order, like chronologically. Or from "left" to "right", or vice-versa, which is clearly not the case with Adolf Hitler and Ron Paul at either end. ;) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.160.251|172.70.160.251]] 00:31, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:Cheers! (And really editing to say that I should have said Ronald Reagan, above, but it doesn't really change my humorous point all that much. :p ) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.82|141.101.98.82]] 01:46, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

== You're doing several edits of signed Talk contributions. ==

Don't do that. Insofar as any edit 'belongs' to anyone, if you write a contribution to a Talk page (or the community portal) and sign it properly, and it isn't actual span or vandalism or similar idiocy, then you don't expect someone to 'correct' what you wrote.

In at least one case, you didn't even understand it enough to correct it (by the standards of your own attempted correction). So perhaps just a better idea not to. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.87|141.101.98.87]] 22:54, 23 September 2024 (UTC)
:I’m cleaning up the maintenance pages and I did those edits so that we don’t have dead links on the wiki. [[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]] ([[User talk:42.book.addict|talk]]) 01:07, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::also, I’ve added a comment clarifying the {{Citation needed}} thread [[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]] ([[User talk:42.book.addict|talk]]) 01:26, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::There are plenty of dead links. Sometimes for practical reasons. I note that you have done a lot of editing, recently, and cleaning up articles is good, but I think you're being told that you're taking it too far to mess with other people's words that are ''supposed'' to be their own, rather than the more collaborative pages.
:::For the [[Citation needed]], perhaps the editor did not want that page to have a "Pages with Citation Needed" link to it (could have used the more literal ''<nowiki>[Citation needed]</nowiki>'', or similar). Or perhaps they didn't even want the meta-tag appearing in superscript and italics at all. You don't know their mind.
:::For the [[Padlock]], the (apparent) original author came back and corrected your so-called correction back again. Not reason to be edited, anyway, even if they hadn't been sure what they intended. (I note some minor typos in that explanation. But I wouldn't dive in and make such corrections either, in a Talk namespace page like that.) Trivial, and not your concern anyway. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.131|172.70.86.131]] 07:22, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Duly noted. [[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]] ([[User talk:42.book.addict|talk]]) 17:10, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

==Misleading username==
Your username sounds as if it's spam. Would you mind having it changed? [[Special:Contributions/172.68.186.59|172.68.186.59]] 07:55, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
:I’m not making a whole new account because some anon thinks that it sounds like spam. I don’t spam and I ''think'' I contribute in a helpful manner. [[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]] ([[User talk:42.book.addict|talk]]) 20:13, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

== CG acounts ==

Hi 42.

I have now had time to look into the whole CG account situation and have reacted and commented both to them and to the message on my talk page. Thanks for the good work. I will give the CG a week to react. Then I will decide next week what to do about them based on their reactions. You are welcome to let me know if they do something stupid in the mean time and also if you know of more CG accounts than the ones I have been alerted to (as seen in my newest reply.)

I did change your talk page because it was made so it was easy to see what comments where left but hard to find them. And it also hid new edits and I do not think a users talk page should hide what people have written, also not if complaints. Seems you have been editing a bit too much on talk pages... But also that you have learned what not to edit?

Best regards
--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 10:48, 29 September 2024 (UTC
:Great-glad that’s resolved. I changed back the “hidden comments” thing because it doesn’t make it impossible to access again-you just need to scroll down and click “old squabbles”. I have made a habit of moving comments out of it whenever I receive a message-that’s less tedious than having such a long and irrelevant talk page. [[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]] ([[User talk:42.book.addict|talk]]) 15:30, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
:It's apparently that different CGs are in charge of different parts of the wiki. e. g. GonscriptGuide and GonscriptGlossary are for language-related pages. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.194.71|172.69.194.71]] 02:53, 30 September 2024 (UTC)



I want to re-raise and join the concern raised by others that the "hidden comments" / "old squabbles" thing is a bad idea, and possibly completely unacceptable. It makes your page hard to navigate and unlike every other Talk page, and generally makes it impossible to find things for anyone not extremely familiar with your particular mechanism, which seems to be unique to you. Even knowing you have an "old squabbles" link to click, I have trouble finding it and get annoyed and frustrated, and that makes me annoyed and frustrated with you, even if I should not be. I do not think you want people annoyed and frustrated with you. I strongly recommend you remove it. Put your "old squabbles" on an archive page or remove them entirely, but please don't veil them in this fashion. Thank you. [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 21:54, 2 October 2024 (UTC)
:Hi, personally I don't really give a shit about the "old squabbles" like I see why people are annoyed by it (see one of the converstions in "old squabbles) but I don't really see why its a a big deal. This is what I'd do. If you REALLY don't wanna get rid of it, I would make it bigger, like a heading, and put it were the "old squabbles" used to be. That way if someones looking for it, the link is obvious and is were the origanals used to be. I think that would be a pretty good compromise, but you can take what I've said with a grain of salt as I'm not one of the people whom have a problem with it. [[User:Apollo11|Apollo11]] ([[User talk:Apollo11|talk]]) 14:02, 3 October 2024 (UTC)
::Alsos just saw your break post, good for you!! :) [[User:Apollo11|Apollo11]] ([[User talk:Apollo11|talk]]) 14:07, 3 October 2024 (UTC)
::[[User talk:42.book.addict/archive|Archived.]] [[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]] ([[User talk:42.book.addict|talk]]) 17:17, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

== Help me make my user page ==

How do I do it [[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 10:51, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
:step 1: wait for 7 days and make 50 '''productive''' edits to be autoconfirmed. step 2: create a user page. step 3: bask in the fact that you aren’t red-linked anymore-wait no your signature is a bright red. [[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]] ([[User talk:42.book.addict|talk]]) 03:27, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

== Thanks :) ==

I just wanted to thank you for creating my user page for me. I really apreciate it--[[User:Pego|Pego]] ([[User talk:Pego|talk]]) 16:06, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

== Adding the "please sign"/etc comments. ==

I really {{diff|352542|wasn't suggesting}} that anyone go into every Talk page and 'update' it just with the guide comment. It's the kind of thing I have tried to do if I (think I) have good cause to be editing the page (usually to fix someone's very recent non-signing).

Like I said, it's all just a partial/sticking-plaster solution, and often enough seems not to be read/remembered ''anyway''. The returns on blanket-editing pretty much everything are low, probably not really worth spending your time on. (Something else may 'need' to be done tomorrow, which means loads of premature edits were done that could have waited a bit longer and saved server-resources.) You're eager to help, I know that. You ''might'' be being overeager. Pace youself, perhaps? ;) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.23|141.101.98.23]] 18:23, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

2994: Númenor Margaritaville

2024-10-07T09:32:55Z

141.101.98.23: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 2994
| date = October 4, 2024
| title = Númenor Margaritaville
| image = numenor_margaritaville_2x.png
| imagesize = 553x553px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = I see white shores, and beyond it, a far green country under a tequila sunrise.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by an ELVISH PARROTHEAD - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

Cueball is conflating {{w|J.R.R. Tolkien}}'s fictional island "[https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/N%C3%BAmenor Númenor]" with the beach resort in {{w|Jimmy Buffett}}'s "{{w|Margaritaville}}". The Elf who is telling him about Númenor, and Aragorn's link to it, becomes progressively more upset, and for cause.

Aragorn, more precisely [https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Aragorn_II Aragorn II], is the principal Mannish protagonist of Tolkien's {{w|The_Lord_of_the_Rings|The Lord of the Rings}}. He is crowned High King of Gondor and Arnor at the end of the saga. He is descended from [https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Elros Elros Tar-Minyatur], first king of Númenor and brother of {{w|Elrond}}.

"I'd rather die while I'm living than live while I'm dead" is a line from Buffett's song "Growing Older But Not Up", from his 1981 album ''{{w|Coconut Telegraph}}''. [https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Ar-Pharaz%C3%B4n Ar-Pharazôn], the twenty-fifth, and last, king of Númenor, sought to conquer the {{w|Valinor|Undying Lands}}, resolving to win eternal life, or die in the attempt. He was therefore responsible for the destruction of Númenor, the removal of the Undying Lands from {{w|Cosmology_of_Tolkien%27s_legendarium#Arda|Arda}}, and the transformation of Arda into a sphere.

"If there's a heaven for me, I'm sure it has a beach attached" is a quote from the chapter "A Caribbean Soul" of Buffett's autobiography ''{{w|A Pirate Looks at Fifty}}''. [https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Tol_Eress%C3%ABa Tol Eressëa] is an island off the coast of Aman, the continent on which the Valar (divine angelic spirits) live. Aman is thought to have been inspired by the concept of a [https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Aman#Inspiration paradise out of time].

Cueball's last line alludes to a statement made by Galadriel in ''{{w|The Fellowship of the Ring}}'', in the chapter "The Mirror of Galadriel": "I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel." Cueball's altered version of the statement refers to {{w|Key West, Florida}}, a city closely associated with Buffett, where he lived for many years, recorded albums, and established the first restaurant in his {{w|Jimmy Buffett's Margaritaville|Margaritaville chain}}.

The title text alludes to a line from Chapter 9: The Grey Havens in ''{{w|The Return of the King}}''. "And then it seemed to him" ({{w|Frodo_Baggins|Frodo}}) "that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a far green country under a swift sunrise." The modified line makes a reference to the {{w|Tequila sunrise}} cocktail - and, perhaps, to the {{w|Tequila_Sunrise_(Eagles_song)|song by Eagles}}, which is thematically similar to "Margaritaville".

Tolkien's legendarium is [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Category:LOTR frequently alluded to] in xkcd.

==Transcript==
:[An Elf woman with a decorated headband around her long blonde hair and wearing a long dress is walking and talking with Cueball who walks ahead of her looking back at her over his shoulder.]
:Elf: Aragorn was king of Gondor, but we Elves remember when his line ruled Númenor.
:Cueball: Oh, the place from the Jimmy Buffett songs?

:[Closeup on Cueball who has stopped and turned towards the now off-panel Elf. The Elf's reaction is coming from a star burst in the top left corner of the panel.]
:Elf [off-panel]: What.
:Cueball: The semi-mythical seafaring Atlantic paradise? He sang about it. With the fancy cocktails?

:[Zoom back out showing that the Elf and Cueball are now standing facing each other.]
:Elf: ...You mean Margaritaville?
:Cueball: Yeah, that must be the modern name.

:[Another closeup on Cueball with the Elf speaking off-panel as before.]
:Elf [off-panel]: Númenor is not Margaritaville.
:Cueball: "I'd rather die while I'm living than live while I'm dead," sang Ar-Pharazôn, king of island life.

:[Zoom back out to see the Elf is now facepalming while Cueball continues.]
:Elf: Please stop.
:Cueball: "If there's a heaven for me, I'm sure it has a beach attached" is about the shores of Tol Eressëa.

:[The Elf is walking away from Cueball who raises his finger in the air.]
:Elf: See, this is why I'm leaving the world of Men.
:Cueball: You shall diminish, and go into Key West.

==Trivia==

In the image of the comic [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/archive/f/f7/20241006145447%21numenor_margaritaville_2x.png as first published], Númenor was styled "Numenor", and Ar-Pharazôn was given as "Tar-Pharazôn". Cueball had mistakenly appended the Elvish ({{w|Quenya}}) royal title Tar to the Mannish ({{w|Adûnaic}}) regnal name Pharazôn; the king did have a Quenya name, Tar-Calion, but he didn't use it, following the precedent established by most of the Kings of Númenor and signaling the increasing estrangement of the Men of the West (apart from the Elf Friends) from the Elves. The errors were corrected two days after publication.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring real people]]
[[Category:LOTR]]
[[Category:Music]]
[[Category:Songs]]
[[Category:Food]]

1437: Higgs Boson

2024-02-26T10:02:01Z

141.101.98.23: Template makup is {{}}. ([[]] Is for wiki-defined link, for reference, [] is for URI-defined one.) Not sure you'll see this comment, and remember in future. If in doubt, find another example's source and copy(+edit) it into where you want it?

{{comic
| number = 1437
| date = October 22, 2014
| title = Higgs Boson
| image = higgs_boson.png
| titletext = 'Can't you just use the LHC you already built to find it again?' 'We MAY have disassembled it to build a death ray.' 'Just one, though.' 'Nothing you should worry about.' 'The death isn't even very serious.'
}}
==Explanation==
{{incomplete| - Created by a DEATH-RAY BUILDER AT THE LHC - Add an in-depth explanation to what Cueball was gonna say at panel 3. Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
[[Cueball]] and [[Ponytail]] are applying for a large amount of grant money to find the {{w|Higgs boson}}. Under scrutiny, they have been forced to admit that they have "lost" the particle which had been previously "found". This is a humorous play on the term "finding" when applied to fundamental particles. The common usage means to discover or observe the existence of a class of particles, rather than to know the current location of an individual particle.

''The Higgs boson'' is an {{w|elementary particle}} that is predicted by a physical model of the universe (the '{{w|Standard Model}}'). Observing evidence that Higgs bosons really exist is a key test of this model: if a search for the Higgs boson had failed to find evidence confirming its existence then the Standard Model would have been shown to be an incorrect description of reality. Finding the Higgs boson was one of the main reasons why the {{w|Large Hadron Collider}} (LHC) was built: to create energies high enough for the Higgs boson to become manifest. The point is, once evidence for its existence has been observed it is not possible to 'lose' the Higgs boson in a way implied by Cueball and Ponytail.

In the title text, the off-screen questioner wonders why Cueball and Ponytail can't use the LHC to find the particle again. The implication is that this would avoid spending another $3 billion. Their responses imply that the pair have already dismantled the LHC and converted its components into a {{w|death ray}} (most likely a {{w|particle-beam weapon}} to be exact). The ostensibly reassuring platitudes offered mimic those used to placate those who were worried about possible apocalyptic consequences of commissioning the LHC, for instance the creation of {{w|black hole}}s, {{w|strange matter}}, a {{w|vacuum bubble}} or proton-eating {{w|magnetic monopole}}s.

The comment that "The death isn't even very serious" in the title text may be a reference to Isaac Asimov's "I, Robot." Robopsychologist Dr. Susan Calvin tells supercomputer The Brain not to worry about death, that it wasn't a "big deal," when the robot is working on an equation relating to hyper drive. The Brain was able to deliver the solution, since anyone using the hyperdrive would be briefly "dead" (no longer exist), but in the end, they would arrive safe and sound.

This also implies that the death ray was only able to produce one death, as opposed to the many deaths such a weapon could be expected to cause, just as it is implied that the LHC only produced a single Higgs boson, which was subsequently misplaced. In [[401: Large Hadron Collider]] the proton stream from the LHC was used to give a helicopter cancer.
==Transcript==
:Offscreen: Tell us about your proposal.
:Ponytail: We're requesting $3 billion in funding to find the Higgs boson.

:Offscreen: ...wait. Didn't you already find it a year or two ago?
:Cueball: Yes, well, um.

:Ponytail: ...OK, this is embarrassing.
:Cueball: See, the thing is—

:Offscreen: Don't tell us you lost it already.
:Ponytail: Look.
:Ponytail: In our defense, it's ''really'' small.

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Physics]]

2779: Exoplanet High-5

2023-05-23T11:43:15Z

141.101.98.23: /* Explanation */ Remnant of original pre-post-edit mention of "Earth-year"

{{comic
| number = 2779
| date = May 22, 2023
| title = Exoplanet High-5
| image = exoplanet_high_5_2x.png
| imagesize = 515x582px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = Tau Ceti is farther away, so it took me 36 years to start the war over updog.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a BOT, 21 YEARS AGO - More on the Updog joke for people not familiar with it. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

''Up high, down low, too slow'' is a {{w|High five#Too_slow|prank variant of a High five}}. In the comic, Earth has established communications with aliens living on Proxima Centauri b, the nearest exoplanet to Earth according to current knowledge, and [[Randall]] has taught them about a High five.

Instead of physically shaking hands, the High five is executed by transmitting messages, as in a {{w|Handshake (computing)}}. The diagram in the comic is thus similar to a {{w|sequence diagram}}, one usually employed for describing network communication in computing. As the messages travel at the speed of light and Proxima Centauri b is over 4 light years away, the times in the diagram are measured in (Earth-)years. This is a very slow method of communication – a perfect setup for a "too slow" prank. We can also see that they are taking around 1/50th of a year (approximately an Earth-week) to cue up their considered response, yet clearly Cueball seems quite ready to respond in about half that time (though any quicker would get lost, and appear simultaneous, at that precision of decimal places).

Having found this way of exchanging a high five with aliens, Randall successfully pranks the aliens by sending the "too slow" message before their "Low-5" message ''can'' even arrive on Earth, and over an Earth-month until it actually does. This is similar to how in the original prank the prankster anticipates the provoked reaction and pulls their hand away after the victim started to move but before the "Low-Five" can taken place.

The aliens do not take kindly to being pranked and start an interstellar war, intending to invade Earth. It is not known at which speed the Centaurians' invasion fleet travels and, therefore, when it will reach Earth.

The title text refers to another prank, in which the prankster gets the victim to ask "What's updog?" (which sounds like "What's up, dawg?"). Tau Ceti is a star almost 12 light years away. The exchange might have gone like this:
* t=0y: ''Randall:'' Hey, do you think it smells like updog in here?
* t=12y: ''Aliens:'' What's updog?
* t=24y: ''Randall:'' Nothin', what's up with you?
* t=36y: ''Message received, Aliens start war''

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:Earth:
* t=0.0y - "Up high" message sent
:Proxima Centauri B:
* t=4.25y - Message received - discussion -
* t=4.27y - High-5 reply sent
:Earth:
* t=8.52y - Reply received
* t=8.53y - "Down low" message sent
:Proxima Centauri B:
* t=12.77y - Message received - discussion -
* t=12.79y - Low-5 reply sent
:Earth:
* t=16.94y - "Too slow" message sent
* t=17.03y - Reply received
:Proxima Centauri B:
* t=21.19y - Message received
* t=21.26y - Invasion fleet launched

:[Caption below the panel:]
:21 years and 3 months after I taught the aliens about high-5s, the war began.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Aliens]]

2754: Relative Terms

2023-03-31T08:32:00Z

141.101.98.23: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 2754
| date = March 24, 2023
| title = Relative Terms
| image = relative_terms_2x.png
| imagesize = 425x442px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = Small sewing machines are sewing machines that are smaller than a sewing machine. A sewing machine is larger than a small sewing machine, but quieter than a loud sewing machine.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a BOT THAT IS LARGER THAN A BOT - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
The terms "small" and "big" are used to refer to size; the terms "loud" and "quiet" are used to refer to (audial) volume.

While these terms are relative, they are often used even when there is nothing obvious being compared against (e.g. "A windmill is a big thing" or "An ant is a small thing"). This comic humorously suggests that the item defined to be in the middle of all four terms ("neither small nor big; neither quiet nor loud") is a sewing machine, as a sewing machine seems (at least in comparison to the other items on the graph) to be neither particularly big nor particularly small, neither particularly quiet nor particularly loud.

An alternative argument may be that the in the center would be the average adult human (as this is the perspective from which most people use language), though this observation would lose some of the comic's comedic value.

The center of the chart is a sewing machine, and the comic is claiming that the scales of "loud and quiet" and "big and small" are measured in comparison to a standard size sewing machine. A standard sewing machine is roughly 60dB in volume and approximately 42” X 21”, although this is for industrial machines, and those in the home would be both smaller and quieter.

Many of the items appear to have been placed in the wrong quadrant for their actual attributes; locations seem to reflect more how people generally think of these things, as opposed to their real-life relationship to a sewing machine.

The title text is humorously tautological because it compares the standard against those things that are themselves defined against the standard.

{| class="wikitable"
|+ Small and quiet (upper left)
|-
! Item !! Description
|-
| Ant ||
|-
| Balloon || a party balloon is quite loud when it pops; a hot-air balloon is big enough to carry a few humans.
|-
| Book ||
|-
| Bun (rabbit or pastry) || "Bun" is an informal term for a rabbit and a loaf of bread, this comparison was made in [[1871: Bun Alert]]
|-
| Butterfly || Butterflies are used as an exemplar of something small, unnoticeable and seemingly insignificant in the metaphor of the Butterfly Effect.
|-
| Hat ||
|-
| Mouse || A mouse is a very small, quiet animal. This might also be a reference to the expression "quiet as a mouse", meaning very quietly.
|-
| Newt ||
|-
| Pin drop || The expression "hear a pin drop" is used to indicate that an area is exceptionally quiet; the idea is that the space is so silent that even something as insubstantial and tiny as a pin can be heard hitting the ground.
|-
| Snow globe || A {{w|snow globe}} is much smaller than a sewing machine. Some snow globes have a small music box that can be wound up to play a melody. Snow globes without a music box are silent.
|}

{| class="wikitable"
|+ Small and loud (upper right)
|-
! Item !! Description
|-
| Baby || Babies are usually considered small, and can be quite loud when they cry.
|-
| Blender || Blenders make a lot of noise when in use. Most household blenders are smaller than a sewing machine.
|-
| Cricket || Given that it is in the small/loud quadrant, this would refer to the insect, which is pretty small and can be quite loud; the sport of cricket or a cricket game would be much larger (though potentially much louder).
|-
| Fire alarm || The primary purpose of a fire alarm is to notify people of fire, so fire alarms are usually very loud, but ideally take up little space.
|-
| Firecracker || A {{w|Firecracker}} is a small explosive firework that makes a very loud bang when lit.
|-
| Flute || An example of a small musical instrument that can nevertheless be audibly quite dominant.
|-
| Harmonica || See Flute.
|-
| Popcorn || A snack that is known for being annoyingly loud in a cinema setting. However, this is largely due to the otherwise low volume environment, and arguably a sewing machine might be equally or more annoying. Also, some helpings of popcorn in some cinemas may actually be larger than a sewing machine.
|-
| Songbird ||
|-
| Whistle || This is of course the device known as a whistle, as it is small. The act by humans to whistle has no size (other than that of the whistler). A whistle is used functionally in place of a human that whistles. The loudest human whistle ever recorded was 8372 Hz and roughly 110 DB, which is a C9 in the standard musical scale and is roughly as loud as a jackhammer[https://www.vnews.com/West-Lebanon-man-sets-a-world-record-for-whistling-24480844#:~:text=Guinness'%20website%20says%20Stanford%20reached,in%20the%20standard%20musical%20notation.]. Since a whistle should be able to beat this it must be seen as loud.
|}

{| class="wikitable"
|+ Big and quiet (lower left)
|-
|-
! Item !! Description
|-
| Anaconda ||
|-
| Giraffe || Giraffes can be quite loud, but they usually vocalise using frequencies well below the range of human hearing. So, to a human, giraffes are quiet.
|-
| Northern lights || "In 2016, a Finnish study confirmed that the Aurora Borealis does produce a sound that can be heard" [https://www.techexplorist.com/listen-sound-aurora-borealis/47421/]
|-
| Shark ||
|-
| Statue || Most statues are larger than a sewing machine. Most statues are silent, but some have fountains or other devices that make sound.
|-
| The Moon || Lower left corner; the Moon is very, very big{{fact}}, but it is also completely silent{{fact}} as sound cannot travel through the vacuum of space.
|-
| Tree ||
|-
| Windmill ||
|}

{| class="wikitable"
|+ Big and loud (lower right)
|-
! Item !! Description
|-
| Airplane ||
|-
| Cannon ||
|-
| Riding mower ||
|-
| [[wikipedia:Calliope_(music)|Steam calliope]] || A large musical device which functions by sending steam (or more recently compressed air) through attached whistles.
|-
| Train ||
|-
| Tuba ||
|-
| Volcano || Lower right corner. Volcanic eruptions can be extremely loud. The {{w|1883 eruption of Krakatoa}} made a pressure wave of 180 dB, the loudest sound ever recorded.
|-
| Waterfall ||
|-
| Whale ||
|}

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[A chart, with "Quiet" to "Loud" on the X-axis, and "Small" to "Big" on the Y-axis. It is split into four quarters, with "Sewing machine" in the center.]

:[Upper left quadrant (Small & Quiet items):] Butterfly, Pin drop, Mouse, Ant, Bun (rabbit or pastry), Snow globe, Newt, Balloon, Book, Hat

:[Upper right quadrant (Small & Loud items):] Popcorn, Cricket, Songbird, Whistle, Baby, Harmonica, Flute, Fire alarm, Blender, Firecracker

:[Lower left quadrant (Big & Quiet items):] Shark, Tree, Anaconda, Giraffe, Statue, Windmill, Northern lights, The Moon

:[Lower right quadrant (Big & Loud items):] Tuba, Riding mower, Cannon, Airplane, Train, Waterfall, Steam calliope, Whale, Volcano

:[Caption below the panel:]
:''Big'', ''Small'', ''Loud'', and ''Quiet'' are relative terms. The thing they're relative to is a sewing machine.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Charts]]
[[Category:Aviation]]
[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Buns]]
[[Category:Sharks]]
[[Category:Music]]
[[Category:Volcanoes]]
[[Category:Food]]

2451: AI Methodology

2021-04-17T03:22:13Z

141.101.98.23: /* Explanation */ It really doesn't *need* changing to be topical.

{{comic
| number = 2451
| date = April 17, 2021
| title = AI Methodology
| image = ai_methodology.png
| titletext = We've learned that weird spacing and diacritics in the methodology description are apparently the key to good research; luckily, we've developed an AI tool to help us figure out where to add them.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a BOT. TRAINED BY AN ADVERSARIAL AI, Please mention here why this explanation isn't complete. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[Cueball stands in front of a projection on a screen and points with a stick to a histogram with a bell curve to the left and one bar to the far right marked with an arrow]
:Cueball: Despite our great research results, some have questioned our AI-based methodology.
:Cueball: But we trained a classifier on a collection of good and bad methodology sections, and it says ours is fine.

{{comic discussion}}

Talk:483: Fiction Rule of Thumb

2016-04-22T01:03:27Z

141.101.98.23:

Also, you get minus points if you have to add a totally reading-flow rupturing explanation.
And if the words which supposedly come from one language have completely different linguistic structure.
And for random apostrophes.
And if you cannot read the book without a wordlist for constant reference next to you.
Rule of thumb #2: if it's not clear from the context or from a smooth, unobtrusive explanation* and/or if the reader has to go back the second time it is mentioned to remember what it was, don't use it.
:Exception to this: Terry Prachett. How the hell can that guy make funny literature out of annoyingly large footnotes?? [[Special:Contributions/132.187.20.160|132.187.20.160]] 09:14, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

I know an author who made up words and still turned out well! His name is Andrew Hussie, creator of Homestuck. Captchalogue, Sylladex, Alchemiter, Cruxite, Respiteblock, Recuperacoon, Cookalizer, Fenestrated Wall, you name it! {{unsigned ip|108.162.219.47}}
:Well one, that's a webcomic, not a book. Two, most of these words are portamntus (Captcha + Catalogue = Captchalogue, Recuperate + Cocoon = Recuperacoon). And while this is certainly a nice observation, it doesn't really contribute to the discussion since the page is not really about Homestuck.--[[User:Edrobot|Edrobot]] ([[User talk:Edrobot|talk]]) 19:42, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

''Dune'' comes to mind... [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.71|199.27.128.71]] 07:07, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Interesting that Randall omitted Shakespeare from the list of people allowed to make up words. Shakespeare used 17,677 different words in all of his known works. About 10% of those words are words that he made up and are now technically official English (includes changing parts of speech for existing words)[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.100|108.162.216.100]] 21:45, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

:I believe that Shakespeare didn't invent 1700 words, although they were at one point attributed to him as earliest known use - especially in the days when searches for early examples were done by hand. Today in many cases earlier examples have since been found. IO9 has an article about it http://io9.gizmodo.com/no-william-shakespeare-did-not-really-invent-1-700-eng-1700049586
:There is also the fact that while some of his plays are the earliest (surviving) example of a word, most of those words must have been known to the public. I can't imagine people going to a performance where they don't recognise a tenth of the words. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.23|141.101.98.23]] 01:03, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

:What's the problem?
:If you can make up a story you should be able to make up words. A much worse problem is when an author thinks describing scenery is part of the story. And when women stop in mid paragraph to describe clothing... Feck that!
:Making up a word or two to get around shit like that is OK. It is only hand-waving a ghost out from the machine. Asimov was terrible for that crap in his early work. He grew out of it, in a manner of speaking, recognising there was a time and place.

there are many exceptions to this rule... Jhereg, for example.[[Special:Contributions/173.245.51.116|173.245.51.116]] 10:43, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

I'm surprised that {{w|A Clockwork Orange}} by Anthony Burgess hasn't been mentioned. It is regularly featured in 'Top 100 Books' lists, but features its own language, Nadsat. --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 11:28, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

I think a lot of comments here are based on missunderstanding. The CHANCE that the book is good is lower. It doesn't mean "more made up words" -> "worse book". [[Special:Contributions/108.162.228.41|108.162.228.41]] 21:48, 23 December 2015 (UTC)