explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

1492: Dress Color

2025-02-19T21:37:12Z

141.101.99.108: Undo revision 366117 by Treeplate (talk) Surely one could find an alternative/archive.org version, if it's not just a temporary glitch, not give up on it with no further comment?

{{comic
| number = 1492
| date = February 27, 2015
| title = Dress Color
| image = dress_color.png
| titletext = This white-balance illusion hit so hard because it felt like someone had been playing through the Monty Hall scenario and opened their chosen door, only to find there was unexpectedly disagreement over whether the thing they'd revealed was a goat or a car.
}}

==Explanation==
This comic shows two drawings of a woman wearing the same dress, but with different background (and body) colors. The two drawings are split with a narrow vertical portion of an image from the web.

The comic strip refers to a {{w|the dress|dress}} whose image went viral on [http://swiked.tumblr.com/post/112174461490/officialunitedstates-unclefather Tumblr] only hours before the strip was posted and soon showed up also on [http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/2xaprc/eli5why_does_this_dress_appear_whitegold_to_some/ Reddit], [https://twitter.com/hashtag/thedress?src=hash Twitter], [http://www.wired.com/2015/02/science-one-agrees-color-dress/ Wired] and on [http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/28/business/a-simple-question-about-a-dress-and-the-world-weighs-in.html The New York Times].

Due to the dress's particular color scheme and the exposure of the photo, it forms an {{w|optical illusion}} causing viewers to disagree on what color the dress actually seems to be. The xkcd strip sandwiches a cropped segment of the photographed dress between two drawings which use the colors from the image against different backgrounds, leading the eye to interpret the white balance differently, demonstrating how the dress can appear different colors depending on context and the viewer's previous experiences.

Both dresses have exactly the same colors actually:
*RGB 113, 94, 58 (orange) <div style="display:inline-block; height:1em; width:1em; background-color: #715E3A"></div>
*RGB 135, 154, 189 (blue) <div style="display:inline-block; height:1em; width:1em; background-color: #879ABD"></div>

Below is an illustration demonstrating that the "colors" of the [https://nvuvu.com/collections/sparkly-dresses/ dresses] ('''link no longer active?''') are the same by connecting them with two lines with the above-mentioned colors (all the way!) and another which has one side flipped and merged into the other:

[[File:dress.png]] [[File:dress2.png]]

Similar types of illusions can be seen at Wikipedia's {{w|Optical illusion#Color_and_brightness_constancies|optical illusion page}} and [http://www.echalk.co.uk/amusements/OpticalIllusions/colourPerception/colourPerception.html echalk].

This image has sparked surprisingly heated debate in many internet communities. A select few individuals may have prior experience with optical illusions of this ilk, but because this particular image went viral - it got heavy exposure over such a short amount of time - it reached millions of people who aren't so familiar with these sorts of mind tricks. To the uninitiated, the color of the dress seems immediately obvious; when others cannot see it their way, it can be a surreal (even uncomfortable) experience.

As an aside, the retailer Roman Originals would later [http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/921/267/de3.png confirm the dress was blue with black lace], and that a white dress with gold lace was not offered among the clothing line.

The title text refers to the game show {{w|Let's Make a Deal}}, hosted by Monty Hall, which was famous for having contestants pick among several doors which either had a real prize (for example, a car) or a joke prize (for example, a goat). [[Randall]] states that people find the dress color issue just as baffling as if upon opening the chosen door no one can agree if the item behind the door is a car or a goat. This is a reference to what has become known as the "{{w|Monty Hall problem}}:" if there are two goats and a prize behind three doors, the contestant has chosen a door, and one of the unchosen doors is opened to reveal a goat, should the contestant change his/her choice? Statistically, the answer is yes, but many people find this counterintuitive; discussion of this problem in ''Parade'' magazine touched off public outrage similar to the viral dress image.

Randall is presumably pointing out how ridiculous it is for people who don't understand the underlying science to become so adamant in defending their beliefs. A spoof of the "Monty Hall problem" previously appeared in [[1282: Monty Hall]], where [[Beret Guy]] decides to take the goat.

==Transcript==
:[Two images of a woman in a dress on each side of an image of a close up of a real dress with the same colors. On the left, she is colored blue on a dark blue background, while on the right, she is brown against a white background. Her dress is the same color in each panel - the same as the real one in between.]

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics with color]]
[[Category:Photography]]

Template:asic

2025-02-10T21:15:50Z

141.101.99.108:

<includeonly>{{#ifeq:{{{1|?}}}|?|{{{2|}}}{{{3|}}}|{{{1|}}}{{{2|}}}}}{{#if:{{{hide|}}}|| [''{{#if:{{{nolink|}}}|sic|{{w|sic}}}}{{#ifeq:{{{1|}}}|?|?}}'']}}</includeonly><noinclude>
Prints an actual {{asic}} indicator. Taken from {{w|Template:sic}}.
The abbreviation "asic" is for "Actual SIC", like {{template|acn}} is an abbreviated alias of the {{template|Actual citation needed}} template.

It can normally take two parameters that are word fragments to obfuscate the text from automated correction systems. 

If the template is to be embedded within italicized text (<nowiki>'' quote ''</nowiki>), the way to make it display properly with the brackets non-italicized and the sic italicized is to add a parameter that just has <nowiki>''</nowiki> in it, or add <nowiki>''</nowiki> to the last parameter if two are already given, and place <nowiki>''</nowiki> after the template call. 



==Examples==
*<nowiki>''Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet{{asic|''}}'', consectetur adipiscing elit''</nowiki>
::produces
:''Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet{{asic|''}}'', consectetur adipiscing elit''
*<nowiki>''Lorem ipsum dolor sit {{asic|am|et''}}'', consectetur adipiscing elit''</nowiki>
::produces
:''Lorem ipsum dolor sit {{asic|am|et''}}'', consectetur adipiscing elit''
*<nowiki>''Lorem ipsum dolor sit {{asic|?|am|et''}}'', consectetur adipiscing elit''</nowiki>
::produces
:''Lorem ipsum dolor sit {{asic|?|am|et''}}'', consectetur adipiscing elit''
*<nowiki>''Lorem ipsum dolor sit {{asic|am|et''|nolink=y}}'', consectetur adipiscing elit''</nowiki>
::produces
:''Lorem ipsum dolor sit {{asic|am|et''|nolink=y}}'', consectetur adipiscing elit''
</noinclude>

2561: Moonfall

2024-03-21T10:47:06Z

141.101.99.108: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 2561
| date = December 29, 2021
| title = Moonfall
| image = moonfall.png
| titletext = Novel ideas and cool explosions are both good, but what I really want from a movie is novel ideas ABOUT cool explosions.
}}

==Explanation==
[[Megan]] asks [[Cueball]] if he is excited for the release of the movie ''Moonfall''.

''{{w|Moonfall (film)|Moonfall}}'' was released in February 2022, a couple of months after this comic. Its director, {{w|Roland Emmerich}}, is known for blowing up things in his movies (see for instance [https://www.gq.com/video/watch/explosions-the-roland-emmerich-supercut the Roland Emmerich Supercut]), as well as for factual inaccuracies in his work (mainly the scientific implausibility of his many disaster movies like ''{{w|Independence Day (1996 film)|Independence Day}}'', ''{{w|The Day After Tomorrow}}'' and ''{{w|2012 (film)|2012}}'').

The [https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5834426/plotsummary basic premise] of ''Moonfall'' is that a mysterious force manages to knock the moon out of its orbit, leaving it on a collision course with the Earth. This is scientifically preposterous (see [[#Realistic analysis of the scenario|analysis]] below), making it potentially 'cringe-worthy' for someone who prefers {{w|hard science fiction}} where things are more grounded in established scientific facts and theories. Cueball states that a story based on good science can potentially serve as a novel window into what the real world may look like someday—or, as he puts it, "expand our ideas of what's possible."

But Cueball then goes on to imply that he's still looking forward to the movie because his less critical side is still excited by things like cool spaceship noises and smashing moons into things. Sometimes you just want to [[311: Action Movies|get lost in mindless action]], even if it's less 'mature' than a well-thought-out meaningful plot. Megan then sums things up by playing off Cueball's wording from the previous panel, saying she's excited to "expand our ideas on how much stuff can explode at once." Given the scale of ''Moonfall'''s premise involving a potential planetary-scale collision, as well as the director's tendency to use gratuitous visual effects and explosions in his movies, it seems reasonable to conclude that the movie will likely contain quite a lot of stuff exploding at once.

In the title text Cueball continues by explaining that while novel ideas and cool explosions are good, what he really wants from a movie is novel ideas about cool explosions. So new ways to explode things, or ideas about exploding more things at once. Or both!

[[1536: The Martian]] contains a similar discussion of an (at the time) upcoming movie, in particular ''{{w|The Martian (film)|The Martian}}''. In that case, however, the subject of the comic was the movie's high scientific accuracy and lack of huge explosions, rather than the other way around.

===Realistic analysis of the scenario===
For the moon to fall from the sky, it would have to stop orbiting. Most forces applied it to will simply change the way in which it is orbiting, making the orbit more elliptical, larger or smaller. To stop it from orbiting entirely, a 'braking' force would need to be applied in the opposite direction of its travel, to halt it.

The moon's mass is about 7.34767×1022 kg and its speed about 1.022 km/s, so the energy needed to stop it is ½''mv''2 or about 3.8364×1028 joules. That's about the energy of 1 trillion large nuclear explosions, centered on the leading-most point of the moon's surface. A precisely-oriented stellar body could strike the moon to do this, like a billiard ball colliding with tons of interstellar moon shrapnel instead of dust.

Less counteractive energy could make the Moon change orbit to one with a {{w|perigee}} below the surface of the Earth, close enough to (partially) enter the atmosphere or merely bring it down beneath the applicable {{w|Roche limit}}. These scenarios would be only technically less catastrophic, and whether the Moon fragments from the initially applied force, the stresses of its nearest (non-contact) distance to Earth or actually survives largely intact until there is a more direct physical interaction, the precise degree of the effect might be practically academic.

==Transcript==
:[Cueball and Megan walking to the right]
:Megan: Are you excited for ''Moonfall''?
:Megan: Or cringing?
:Cueball: Well...

:[Closeup on Cueball]
:Cueball: I like when stories are grounded in good science because it's exciting to expand our ideas of what's possible.

:[Zoomed back out to Cueball and Megan walking to the right. Cueball has his palms raised]
:Cueball: But I also support giving Roland Emmerich as much money as he wants to make cool spaceship noises and smash moons into things.
:Megan: Excited to expand our ideas of how much stuff can explode at once.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category: Fiction]]
[[Category: Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category: Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category: Comics featuring real people]]

2909: Moon Landing Mission Profiles

2024-03-21T10:46:19Z

141.101.99.108: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 2909
| date = March 20, 2024
| title = Moon Landing Mission Profiles
| image = moon_landing_mission_profiles_2x.png
| imagesize = 709x504px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = If you pick a low enough orbit, it gives you a lot of freedom to use a lightweight launch vehicle such as a stepladder.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by A MOON THAT LOOKS ESPECIALLY LARGE TONIGHT - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

Getting astronauts to the moon (and back) is hard.{{citation needed}} There are different strategies to do it. This comic reviews three mission profiles considered for the Apollo moon landings, and one which is absurd. In all cases, it only depicts the means to reach the Moon, more suitable for robotic missions that are not required to return, with manned/sample-return missions really requiring followup diagrams/notation to explain how to safely complete their journeys back to Earth.

'''{{w|Lunar Orbit Rendezvous}} (LOR)'''

Description: Using a single large rocket to get the required lunar orbiter and lander systems into trans-lunar orbit, which can then fulfil their eponymous roles.

Status: Chosen by the {{w|Apollo Program}} in the 1960s and 1970s.

Explanation: This was the actual method used in the Apollo missions. It was efficient in terms of fuel and cost. The main spacecraft ('command module') orbits the Moon, as the lander separates and uses its descent-stage to safely reach the surface.

After the Moon mission, the lander (ascent-stage only) ascends to dock once more with the command module in lunar orbit, the crew then return to Earth in the command module (leaving the abandoned ascent stage behind, in most cases purposefully directed to impact the Moon).

'''{{w|Earth Orbit Rendezvous}} (EOR)'''

Description: A large lunar-landing system is assembled in Earth orbit through several launches. Once complete, it travels to the Moon as a whole. It is depicted here as not required to orbit the Moon in full, in any way, but is shown needing to orbit Earth, as an unavoidable part of its profile.

Status: Rejected for requiring multiple {{w|Saturn V}} rockets per landing and potentially taking longer.

Explanation: This concept involved launching different parts of the spacecraft into Earth orbit using multiple rockets and then assembling them before heading to the Moon. It would have allowed almost arbitrarily large sizes of equipment to have reached the surface, perhaps to simplify the return journey, but with the complication of adding multiple orbital docking procedures to the project rather than most assembling and spacecraft mating being carried out prior to launch. It should be noted that Randall made a mistake on this point of the comic; the Earth Orbit Rendezvous would have required multiple launches of the {{w|Saturn IB}}, not multiple launches of the Saturn V.

'''{{w|Direct Ascent}}'''

Description: The lander is launched from Earth directly to the Moon without entering orbit.

Status: Rejected for requiring an unreasonably large rocket.

Explanation: This was a simpler but less feasible approach, where a single huge rocket (or a particularly large rocket stack) would send the lander straight to the Moon. The inefficiency comes in taking a comparatively huge rocket down to the Moon and back up, requiring a lot more fuel than a separate lander. It avoids having to 'park' items in orbit that it must later dock once more with, but then increases the mass that must land on/take off from the lunar surface, without being useful during this phase of the mission.

In reality, this was the approach imagined for the Nova C-8 rocket as an Apollo alternative. This was also the approach used in {{w|Destination Moon (comics)|Destination Moon}} from {{w|The Adventures of Tintin}}, with the fuel problem addressed by using a nuclear reactor for much of the trip—which would be a really bad idea in reality since "rockets have a tendency to explode"[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHvR1fRTW8g]. Science fiction movies have frequently depicted this method of landing, either before the dawn of the actual Apollo program or (to save plot-time ''or'' by using a fictional increase in rocket capability) in more futuristic settings.

'''Lunar Earth Rendezvous (LER)'''

Description: The Moon transits to rendezvous with a spacecraft in low Earth orbit.

Status: Rejected because, humorously, "I guess no one thought of it?!"

Explanation: This is a fictional and impractical scenario. The Moon cannot propulse itself and cannot alter its orbit to rendezvous with a spacecraft. The Moon would also break up because {{w|low Earth orbit}} is within the {{w|Roche limit}}. Astronauts would theoretically land on the Moon, but the hypothetical fragments of the Moon would make the landing impractical. This would be also bad for the Earth's climate, tides, stock markets and ecosystems.

The title text imagines the moon coming to ''very'' low earth orbit, low enough to reach with a step ladder. There are many reasons this is wholly impractical, as well as civilization-ending. Dropping a moon on the Earth from 6 feet would likely cover the earth in about 45 km of moon matter (see [[2908: Moon Armor Index]]). If the moon somehow were put in orbit around the Earth at a height of 6 feet, the only difference is that debris would crash into you from the side at a faster velocity.

===Factual Mission Profiles===
The Apollo Program considered a number of possible mission profiles. Of the {{w|Apollo program#Choosing a mission mode|four shortlist plans}}, the Lunar Surface Rendevous plan was not shown or mentioned in this comic, but clearly inspired the title of the method created in its place.

With the ongoing work to achieve the {{w|Artemis program}}, the successor to Apollo, this comic is probably also making sideways references to the plans and equipment being developed to achieve it, which currently features several aspects of the above examples. A single crewed-launch is intending to rendezvous with, and make use of, additional equipment separately launched (including one that is very nearly one big rocket in its own right). Instead of assembling in Earth orbit, it will probably make use of a [https://www.nasa.gov/missions/artemis/lunar-near-rectilinear-halo-orbit-gateway lunar near-rectilinear halo orbit], or NRHO, to and from which the landing system will operate. There is also planning, still in an early stage, to establish lunar-surface infrastructure that would simplify the refuelling of the transfer craft and support surface operations.

The only depicted plan that should not play a part in upcoming missions is the one which may be more connected with some other quite different scenario which [[2561: Moonfall|has previously been referenced]] in xkcd.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[Top left panel]
:'''Lunar orbit rendezvous'''
:Spacecraft orbits Moon, drops lander

:Chosen by the Apollo program

:[Top right panel]
:'''Earth orbit rendezvous'''
:Large lander assembled in Earth orbit via several launches, travels to Moon

:Rejected for requiring multiple Saturn Vs per landing and potentially taking longer

:[Lower left panel]
:'''Direct ascent'''
:Lander launched from Earth directly to Moon

:Rejected for requiring an unreasonably large rocket

:[Lower right panel]
:'''Lunar Earth rendezvous'''
:Moon transits to rendezvous with spacecraft in low Earth orbit

:Rejected because I guess no one thought of it?!

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Space]]

2905: Supergroup

2024-03-13T16:21:32Z

141.101.99.108: That reference is unnecessary, but moved its section to beyond the (slightly modified) non-reference analysis, which it should have been after.

{{comic
| number = 2905
| date = March 11, 2024
| title = Supergroup
| image = supergroup_2x.png
| imagesize = 335x321px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = I love their cover of 1,200 Balloons, Dalmatians, and Miles.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a SUPERSYMMETRIC SUPERGROUP THAT IS A GAY TRANS MALE (nothing against gay trans males) THAT OWNS 1200 BALLOONS - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

In popular music, a {{w|supergroup (music)|supergroup}} is a musical group formed by collaboration of existing solo artists and members of other musical groups.

This comic shows a marquee announcing a concert by a supergroup formed from members of 10 musical groups whose names all begin with a number. The name of the supergroup is the sum of all those numbers, 176, followed by the names of the original groups without their numbers. It's reasonable to estimate that there could be up to 32 members of the supergroup (see [[#band_member_numbers|below]]).

Musical groups mentioned in the comic:
* {{w|Twenty One Pilots}}
* {{w|5 Seconds of Summer}}
* {{w|4 Non Blondes}}
* {{w|2 Live Crew}}
* {{w|100 gecs}}
* {{w|3 Doors Down}}
* {{w|Nine Inch Nails}}
* {{w|OneRepublic}}
* {{w|One Direction}}
* {{w|Thirty Seconds to Mars}}

Sum: 21 + 5 + 4 + 2 + 100 + 3 + 9 + 1 + 1 + 30 = 176

The title text indicates that this supergroup performs a {{w|medley (music)|medley}} or {{w|mashup (music)|mashup}} of songs whose titles begin with numbers. The title of this "supersong" is similarly formed by adding the numbers and following with the rest of all the titles. Notably, none of the referenced songs were written by any of the referenced artists.

Songs mentioned in the title text:
* {{w|99 Luftballons}} (by {{w|Nena (band)|Nena}}). 99 Red Balloons is the title of the English-language adaptation of the song.
* {{w|One Hundred and One Dalmatians#Music|One Hundred and One Dalmatians}} (Disney film soundtrack). The titular song by the {{w|Sherman Brothers}} is not featured in the film, but was released in separate Disney recordings.
* {{w|A Thousand Miles}} (by {{w|Vanessa Carlton}}). Other songs titled "{{w|1000 Miles}}" or "Thousand Miles" also exist.

Sum: 99 + 101 + 1000 = 1200

"{{w|I'm Gonna Be (500 Miles)}}" by {{w|the Proclaimers}} is about walking "500 miles, and [...] 500 more", therefore a thousand miles in total. There are two more songs titled (or known as) {{w|500 Miles (disambiguation)|"500 Miles"}}, by Hedy West and Tori Amos, which could be added up to replace "A Thousand Miles" (or "1000 Miles") in the tally as well.

The supergroup could have 32 members:
* Twenty One Pilots: This band has 2 members, Tyler Joseph and Josh Dun.
* 5 Seconds of Summer: There are 4 members in this band, including Luke Hemmings, Michael Clifford, Calum Hood, and Ashton Irwin.
* 4 Non Blondes: Originally, this group had 4 members, but it disbanded in 1994. The lead singer was Linda Perry.
* 2 Live Crew: This group's core lineup included 2 to 4 members over different periods, with notable members being Luther Campbell, Brother Marquis, Fresh Kid Ice, and Mr. Mixx.
* 100 gecs: This band consists of 2 members, Laura Les and Dylan Brady.
* 3 Doors Down: This band typically has 5 members, although the number has varied with lineup changes over the years.
* Nine Inch Nails: Officially, Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross are the only constant members of Nine Inch Nails, with a changing lineup of touring members and collaborators.
* OneRepublic: This band has 5 members, including Ryan Tedder, Zach Filkins, Drew Brown, Brent Kutzle, and Eddie Fisher.
* One Direction: Originally, there were 5 members in this band, but after Zayn Malik's departure in 2015, it continued with 4 members until their hiatus.
* Thirty Seconds to Mars: This band has had various lineups but is centered around Jared Leto and Shannon Leto, with other members joining and leaving at different times.

Sum: 2 + 4 + 4 + 2 + 2 + 5 + 2 + 5 + 4 + 2 = 32

These counts mostly reflect the bands' most well-known lineups and may vary with time due to changes in membership or the band's status. Combined groups may feature {{w|McBusted|fewer than}} the sum of their original memberships, even down to just single musicians/vocalists coming from any or all of their prior collaborations. On the other hand, especially for {{w|Charity supergroup|worthy causes}}, it is possible that groups with {{w|List of Hawkwind band members#Members|many changing lineups}} could perhaps rustle up far more members than they ever had at a given time, never mind any prominent artists who may guest-star in their own right.

=== Potential connection to mathematical supergroups ===
Randall may be making a subtle reference to mathematical physics, in which a {{w|supergroup (physics)|supergroup}} is a generalization of a group based on the concept of {{w|supersymmetry}}.

Readers with a background in mathematics or physics might find their expectations thwarted upon realizing that the comic is about mundane musical collaborations. But then, "every supergroup carries a natural group structure, but there may be more than one way to structure a given group as a supergroup"<ref name="wiki_supergroup">{{w|supersymmetry(physics)|Supersymmetry (physics) on Wikipedia}}, accessed 2024-03-13</ref>, which applies to both contexts.

100 gecs provides the most "bandname per member" (100/2=50), with OneRepublic and One Direction each vying for most "members per bandname" (both 5, at their most complete). Counting the songname mashup ratios is more complex: if it is not a single "1000 miles", ''perhaps'' the two Proclaimers can be said to be each singing 500 miles, to match the other solo artists' alternate 500s (depending upon which source(s) are chosen as canon), but a single luftballon requires just slightly over 1% of Nena (whether the {{w|Nena|eponymous singer}} or shared throughout {{w|Nena (band)|her band of five}}) and a lone dalmation slightly less than 1% split amongst {{w|101 Dalmatians|an uncertain number of originators}}.

== References ==
<references/>

==Transcript==
:[Ponytail, Cueball, Megan, Knit Cap, and Hairy are in line at a theater box office with Ponytail looking in at the window at the tickets sale. The window is partly shaded/reflectively-marked and cannot be seen through in the comic. There is a speaking grille in the window, plus a opening at the bottom for passing payment and tickets. To the left of the window are double doors and above all this there is a large theatrical billboard with small lights all around it. It reads:]
:<big>Playing Tonight</big>
:''The New Supergroup:''
:176 Pilots, Seconds of Summer, Non Blondes, Live Crew, gecs, Doors Down, Inch Nails, Republic, Direction, and Seconds to Mars

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Knit Cap]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Hairy]]
[[Category:Music]]
[[Category:Math]]

2905: Supergroup

2024-03-13T13:02:52Z

141.101.99.108: /* Explanation */ Missing "be", and slightly better contextualising.

{{comic
| number = 2905
| date = March 11, 2024
| title = Supergroup
| image = supergroup_2x.png
| imagesize = 335x321px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = I love their cover of 1,200 Balloons, Dalmatians, and Miles.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a BOT THAT OWNS 1200 BALLOONS - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
In popular music, a {{w|supergroup (music)|supergroup}} is a musical group formed by collaboration of existing solo artists and members of other musical groups.

This comic shows a marquee announcing a concert by a supergroup formed from members of 10 musical groups whose names all begin with a number. The name of the supergroup is the sum of all those numbers, followed by the names of the original groups without their numbers. It's reasonable to estimate that there could be around 32 members of the supergroup (see below).

The title text indicates that there's a song that's a {{w|medley (music)|medley}} or {{w|mashup (music)|mashup}} of songs whose titles begin with numbers. The title of this "supersong" is similarly formed by adding the numbers and following with the rest of all the titles.

Musical groups mentioned in the comic:
* {{w|Twenty One Pilots}}
* {{w|5 Seconds of Summer}}
* {{w|4 Non Blondes}}
* {{w|2 Live Crew}}
* {{w|100 gecs}}
* {{w|3 Doors Down}}
* {{w|Nine Inch Nails}}
* {{w|OneRepublic}}
* {{w|One Direction}} (now disbanded)
* {{w|Thirty Seconds to Mars}}

Sum: [https://www.google.com/search?q=21+%2B+5+%2B+4+%2B+2+%2B+100+%2B+3+%2B+9+%2B+1+%2B+1+%2B+30+%3D+176&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS1073US1073&oq=21+%2B+5+%2B+4+%2B+2+%2B+100+%2B+3+%2B+9+%2B+1+%2B+1+%2B+30+%3D+176&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOdIBBzM0MWowajmoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&safe=active&ssui=on 21 + 5 + 4 + 2 + 100 + 3 + 9 + 1 + 1 + 30 = 176]

Songs mentioned in the title text:
* {{w|99 Luftballons}} (by {{w|Nena (band)|Nena}}). 99 Red Balloons is the title of the English-language adaptation of the song.
* {{w|One Hundred and One Dalmatians#Music|One Hundred and One Dalmatians}} (Disney film soundtrack). The titular song by the {{w|Sherman Brothers}} is not featured in the film, but was released in separate Disney recordings.
* {{w|A Thousand Miles}} (by {{w|Vanessa Carlton}}). Other songs titled "{{w|1000 Miles}}" or "Thousand Miles" also exist.

Sum: [https://www.google.com/search?q=99+%2B+101+%2B+1000+%3D+1200&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS1073US1073&oq=99+%2B+101+%2B+1000+%3D+1200&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOdIBBzcyNGowajmoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&safe=active&ssui=on 99 + 101 + 1000 = 1200]

"{{w|I'm Gonna Be (500 Miles)}}" by {{w|the Proclaimers}} is about walking "500 miles, and [...] 500 more", therefore a thousand miles in total. There are two more songs titled (or known as) {{w|500 Miles (disambiguation)|"500 Miles"}}, by Hedy West and Tori Amos, which could be added up to replace "A Thousand Miles" (or "1000 Miles") in the tally as well.

The supergroup could have 32 members:
* Twenty One Pilots: This band has 2 members, Tyler Joseph and Josh Dun.
* 5 Seconds of Summer: There are 4 members in this band, including Luke Hemmings, Michael Clifford, Calum Hood, and Ashton Irwin.
* 4 Non Blondes: Originally, this group had 4 members, but it disbanded in 1994. The lead singer was Linda Perry.
* 2 Live Crew: This group's core lineup included 2 to 4 members over different periods, with notable members being Luther Campbell, Brother Marquis, Fresh Kid Ice, and Mr. Mixx.
* 100 gecs: This band consists of 2 members, Laura Les and Dylan Brady.
* 3 Doors Down: This band typically has 5 members, although the number has varied with lineup changes over the years.
* Nine Inch Nails: Officially, Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross are the only constant members of Nine Inch Nails, with a changing lineup of touring members and collaborators.
* OneRepublic: This band has 5 members, including Ryan Tedder, Zach Filkins, Drew Brown, Brent Kutzle, and Eddie Fisher.
* One Direction: Originally, there were 5 members in this band, but after Zayn Malik's departure in 2015, it continued with 4 members until their hiatus.
* Thirty Seconds to Mars: This band has had various lineups but is centered around Jared Leto and Shannon Leto, with other members joining and leaving at different times.

Sum: [https://www.google.com/search?q=2+%2B+4+%2B+4+%2B+2+%2B+2+%2B+5+%2B+2+%2B+5+%2B+4+%2B+2+%3D+32&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS1073US1073&oq=2+%2B+4+%2B+4+%2B+2+%2B+2+%2B+5+%2B+2+%2B+5+%2B+4+%2B+2+%3D+32&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqBggAEEUYOzIGCAAQRRg7MgYIARBFGDwyBggCEEUYPNIBBzk0MmowajmoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&safe=active&ssui=on 2 + 4 + 4 + 2 + 2 + 5 + 2 + 5 + 4 + 2 = 32]

These counts mostly reflect the bands' most well-known lineups and may vary with time due to changes in membership or the band's status. Combined groups may feature {{w|McBusted|fewer than}} the sum of their original memberships, even down to just single musicians/vocalists coming from any or all of their prior collaborations. On the other hand, especially for {{w|Charity supergroup|worthy causes}}, it is possible that groups with {{w|List of Hawkwind band members#Members|many changing lineups}} could perhaps rustle up far more members than it ever had together on a single stage, never mind any prominently solo-headlining artists who may guest-star (possibly unannounced) in their own right.

100 gecs provides the most "bandname per member" (100/2=50), with OneRepublic and One Direction each vying for most "members per bandname" (both 5, at their most complete). Counting the songname mashup ratios is more complex: ''perhaps'' the two Proclaimers can be said to be each singing 500 miles, to match the other solo artists' alternate 500s (depending upon which source(s) are chosen as canon), but a single luftballon requires just slightly over 1% of Nena (whether the {{w|Nena|eponymous singer}} or shared throughout {{w|Nena (band)|her band of five}}) and a lone dalmation slightly less than 1% split amongst {{w|101 Dalmatians|an uncertain number of originators}}.

==Transcript==
:[Ponytail, Cueball, Megan, Knit Cap, and Hairy are in line at a theater box office with Ponytail looking in at the window at the tickets sale. The window is partly shaded/reflectively-marked and cannot be seen through in the comic. There is a speaking grille in the window, plus a opening at the bottom for passing payment and tickets. To the left of the window are double doors and above all this there is a large theatrical billboard with small lights all around it. It reads:]
:<big>Playing Tonight</big>
:''The New Supergroup:''
:176 Pilots, Seconds of Summer, Non Blondes, Live Crew, gecs, Doors Down, Inch Nails, Republic, Direction, and Seconds to Mars

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Knit Cap]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Hairy]]
[[Category:Music]]
[[Category:Math]]

Talk:2893: Sphere Tastiness

2024-02-14T17:28:54Z

141.101.99.108:

base balls are delicious after boiling and peeling[[Special:Contributions/172.68.64.212|172.68.64.212]] 00:19, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
:You seem to be confusing baseballs with eggs. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]])
:And who the hell calls baseballs “bAsE bAlLs”. [[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]] ([[User talk:42.book.addict|talk]]) 02:40, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

who's the authority on whether or not the earth and the moon are "not tasty"????, i think the moon would be pretty delicious actually [[Special:Contributions/172.69.71.71|172.69.71.71]] 00:26, 13 February 2024 (UTC)GR8GH
:Some Apollo astronauts reported that moondust tastes and smells like gunpowder. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 00:28, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
::Yum! [[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]] ([[User talk:42.book.addict|talk]]) 02:41, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
::Sounds {{w|Gunpowder_tea|delicious}} to me.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.26|172.70.85.26]] 11:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
:Sure, if you like green cheese! [[Special:Contributions/172.70.207.123|172.70.207.123]] 03:26, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
::I actually quite like a good blue cheese, and had a blue (red) leicester only yesterday. But some actual sage derby would fulfil the role of a green one quite tastily. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.112|141.101.99.112]] 04:56, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
::{{w|Green_cheese}} can be perfectly tasty - it's just a young unaged cheese.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.26|141.101.99.26]] 11:13, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
:"Not like any cheese I've ever tasted"-Wallace

In Fuck Grapefruits, watermelons were just slightly tasty. Does he like other melons so much that the average melon is as tasty as grapes? Or has he learned how delicious watermelon actually is? [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 00:42, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
:I think that he probably just learned how delicious watermelon is. [[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]] ([[User talk:42.book.addict|talk]]) 02:41, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
::Watermelon is different genus (albeit in the same family) to most melons, so I'd assume watermelon is excluded here.[[Special:Contributions/172.69.194.162|172.69.194.162]] 11:19, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
:::Of course silly discussion but the melons is listed below grapes on the tasty scale. And if that scale is also log then they could be deemed to taste much less nice than grapes even with this slight difference. Maybe even grape fruit would be close to this line? But also melons does not mean water melons! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 06:33, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

This comic is begging for another of his four-corner plots, not a line graph. Ball bearings: lower left. Bowling balls: middle bottom. Tapioca: upper left. Cheese balls: upper middle. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.207.123|172.70.207.123]] 03:26, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
:My first thought was that he clearly isn't accounting for frequency, because I'm pretty sure there's a ''lot'' more oranges than baseballs...
:[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 05:06, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

It's a linear interpolation, Michael. How big could the error be? 10%? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.166|108.162.245.166]] 03:51, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Grapes are spherical? I guess some varieties. [[User:Nitpicking|Nitpicking]] ([[User talk:Nitpicking|talk]]) 04:12, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

With a logarithmic x axis and an unlabelled y axis, I find calling it “linear interpolation” without further explanation disingenious. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.110.121|172.68.110.121]] 08:08, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

I think we have to give serious consideration as to how untasty the Sun is, and the possibility of subatomic particles being absolutely delicious. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.79.189|172.69.79.189]] 10:07, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
:Can't we just ask whoever tasted quarks to figure out the different flavours?[[Special:Contributions/172.69.195.24|172.69.195.24]] 11:22, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Baseballs aren't the only questionable object for this theory..... think of the marbles!!!--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.73|162.158.154.73]] 12:41, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
:Marbles are tasteless. [[User:SDSpivey|SDSpivey]] ([[User talk:SDSpivey|talk]]) 14:44, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

In looking for something else that might fulfil the 800m sphere criteria I stumbled across [https://www.reddit.com/r/theydidthemath/comments/p0qws3/self_if_you_blended_all_788_billion_people_on/ this] :o(| I'll make no comment on potential tastiness.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.191|172.70.90.191]] 12:58, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
:Soylent Green meatball. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 16:31, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Galactus would totally disagree with this graph. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.175.25|172.70.175.25]] 16:24, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
:As would Unicron... and Dormammu...
:[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 17:57, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Here's a link to a mile-long hotdog [https://www.lifeinthecarolinas.com/syndicated-columns/2018/3/6/miles-and-miles-of-hotdogs-from-an-igloo miles-of-hotdog], while technically not a single hotdog nor a sphere it's a mile's worth of hotdogs. I recall there once being created a mile-long submarine / hoagie / po-boy sandwich, but couldn't find it on a quick google search. That also is not remotely spherical. [[User:Rtanenbaum|Rtanenbaum]] ([[User talk:Rtanenbaum|talk]]) 16:41, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

The moon is made of delicious cheese, isn't it? That would put it in the upper right corner.
[[Special:Contributions/172.71.102.15|172.71.102.15]] 16:53, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Giant peaches?

Am I reading this wrong, or is the mark for grapes just slightly to the left of the tick for 10^-1 m? Which suggests that grapes are about 8 cm wide? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.38.82|172.70.38.82]] 19:21, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
:Looks to me like it's about 2/3 the way between 10^-2 and 10^-1. So call it between 10^-1.3 and 10^-1.4. Which is between 4cm and 5cm. Still a rather large grape, but perhaps more plausible if he's measuring across its widest dimension. 10^-1.6 (2.5cm) would perhaps give a more representative grape length, or maybe 10^-1.7 (2cm) if he normalised the measurements to account for their spheroid(ish) nature. But we'd also have to get in to the question of when is a grape a grape? There will be lots of grapes that will never reach more than a few mm, but not ones that we would normally eat. His melon looks to be about 10^-0.7, or 20cm, which again seems rather large for an average dimension (though proportionately less so than the grape).[[Special:Contributions/172.69.194.203|172.69.194.203]] 09:57, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

I wonder if this is a reference to James and the Giant Peach [[Special:Contributions/172.71.155.39|172.71.155.39]] 21:04, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

IDK how you'd define "tastes okay", but I bet you could find an 800m comet that's about 50% ice & 50% dust. [[User:Snuffysam|Snuffysam]] ([[User talk:Snuffysam|talk]]) 21:29, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
:I think you would need less than 50% of dust for "taste OK". Still, you may be on right track - there should be some comet consisting of mostly ice which would taste OK. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 04:15, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
::Or one that was 50% dust and 50% ice cream.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.216|172.70.85.216]] 09:39, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Why and how did John Young taste the moon? I heard moon dust is cancerous, far more jagged than earth sand, and even if it WAS just earth sand, it would be awful to put anywhere near your mouth. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.59.203|172.69.59.203]] 09:16, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
:I've heard it had some pretty nasty effects on Cave Johnson. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.46.3|172.70.46.3]] 11:13, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
::SPAAAAAAACEEEE!!!! [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 12:34, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
:I'm sure that when they removed their helmets back in the capsule, some of the dust was airborne. [[User:SDSpivey|SDSpivey]] ([[User talk:SDSpivey|talk]]) 14:44, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Anyone else notice that the Earth is slightly more tasty than the Moon? [[User:Weslar|Weslar]] ([[User talk:Weslar|talk]]) 16:40, 14 February 2024 (UTC)Weslar
:This was mentioned, for some time (I even rephrased the original prose about it), but it seems to have been excised during a subsequent edit. The thoughts were that this is because there were known tasty bits in it. I refined that to "on the surface", or similar wording. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.108|141.101.99.108]] 17:28, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

2892: Banana Prices

2024-02-11T15:43:28Z

141.101.99.108: /* Explanation */ Using hyphen-like dashes *without* "space-dash-space", just makes them even more look like the hyphens they're not supposed to be than a "space-hyphen-space" would... Luckily, normal comma-asides work in some cases and parens the rest.

{{comic
| number = 2892
| date = February 9, 2024
| title = Banana Prices
| image = banana_prices_2x.png
| imagesize = 564x378px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = It's a linear extrapolation, Michael. How big could the error be? 10%?
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a MANDALORIAN BANANA ARMORER - Please change this comment when editing this page.}}

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl_Qyk9DSUw ‘It’s one banana, Michael. What could it cost, $10?'] is a line from an {{w|Arrested Development}} episode (Season 1, Episode 6, "Charity Drive", 2003) that became a well-known meme used to mock out-of-touch elites. The character who spoke this line (Lucille Bluth, a rich socialite) didn't know the cost of a banana and made a wildly incorrect estimate because she had never bought her own groceries. According to the graph, the banana price at the time of that episode was actually just under 25 cents, and the price "now" (2024) is around 30 cents.

This comic channels Lucille Bluth’s confident ignorance to illustrate a number of ways to violate statistical best practices and to "lie with data." The additional use of an "unreliable narrator" device gives this comic several layers of meaning. The caption writer, in this case, is an unreliable narrator who is ''also'' humorously out-of-touch like Lucille Bluth, but in a different way. And the comic’s title text speculates that the error in their conclusion is less than 10%, even when its own three predictions (from 120 years to 220 years) differ by over 80%.

To initially mislead the reader and to ultimately demonstrate how easy it is to be fooled by various methods of "lying with data," Randall ably combines several statistical "sins" in one graph, such as:
* false [[Precision vs Accuracy|precision]]
* [[Extrapolating|extrapolating]] an order of magnitude deeper into the future than is advisable
* referring to a logarithmic extrapolation as linear
* ignoring historical norms and high variability in making future predictions
* articulating multiple potential scenarios that are actually highly correlated with each other

At first, the comic looks like a wry observation that the irony of this sitcom line will "probably" be obsolete in a century or two. This comic shows a graph of three predicted prices for bananas over the next 250 years, extrapolating from the current price. One extrapolation uses the general inflation rate, a value dominated by the cost of housing. Another uses the inflation rate for fresh fruit. The third line is an extrapolation from 50 years of historic banana prices. The comic presents these extrapolations to claim that in a century or so the irony of the sitcom quote will be anachronistically meaningless.

(While these extrapolations look linear, they are, in fact, exponential, since a linear extrapolation on a graph with a logarithmic scale is actually an exponential extrapolation. The graph is log-linear, with price as a logarithmic scale on the vertical (left) axis, which makes it possible to visualize exponential growth as a straight line.)

The accuracy of these predictions depends their underlying assumptions. The "general inflation rate" line assumes an average rate of around 3%, matching the historic average in the USA. However, assuming a constant inflation rate for the next 200 years is foolhardy. Inflation reliably fluctuates quite a lot in response to economic factors and government policies. It was as high as 6% during recent rounds of economic stimulus and caused fears of hyper-inflation. And pre-Covid, it was around 1% for a decade.

Besides getting the inflation rate wrong, another way the extrapolation could be wrong was if, in the next 100 years, there were a {{w|Banana#Pests, diseases, and natural disasters|massive banana crash or extinction}}, as has {{w|Gros Michel banana|happened before}}, due to the banana's lack of genetic diversity. In which case, the sharply reduced supply of bananas could send the price past $10 very quickly.

Another, more subtle, illustration of false precision is the graph's use of three different models for the extrapolation of banana prices. At first glance, using three different trend lines seems to show a "range" of potential scenarios and acknowledge the prediction's uncertainty. (Scenario Thinking is the practice of articulating divergent, uncorrelated scenarios to explore various "potential futures.") However, the three underlying trends of the prediction models are correlated: general inflation is highly correlated to fruit price inflation and banana price inflation. Using three different trends that are all highly correlated is scant better than using just one.

An additional sign that the graph-maker is seeking to mislead is the choice to plot prices on a log-scale. This is quite unusual. Exponential data like viral spread and population growth can make sense to visualize with a log-scale, but using one for commodity prices is unusual, unhelpful, and suspicious.

Finally, the reference to "BLS/St. Louis Fred" (a widely respected source of economic data) appears to lend credibility to the graph, but the only data that is truly credible is the historic price data. It's one more example, citing respected sources, of a way to show how to fool unsuspecting readers into lending a prediction more credibility than it deserves.

The title text is a wink from Randall about this unreliable narrator by using the ignorant tone of Lucille Bluth to wryly acknowledge, in fact, that the error of the extrapolations greatly exceeds 10%. Just as Lucille was very wrong about a $10 banana (a price threshold), so, too, is the speaker of the title text very wrong about the 10% error (a proportional change). It does so in the form of a meta-joke about the false precision of extrapolations, while continuing the theme of the speaker's extreme ignorance. Assuming that the error couldn't be more than 10% shows that the Lucille speaker continues to be hilariously off-base, presuming far more accuracy from a multi-century prediction than is warranted.

Overall, the comic is a clever commentary about the false precision of extrapolation and how easy it is to make absurdly precise predictions seem credible, illustrating its point by initially misleading the reader with its own false precision, and wrapping it all in a pop-culture reference.

In truth, any economic extrapolation into the distant future (based on past data points) is at most an educated guess, likely to be quite wrong, with an expected error far in excess of 10%. (A rare example of a field in which 75-year predictions are highly accurate is demographic age charts, since the number of babies born this year is causal of the number of 75-year-olds alive in 75 years.)

This comic uses several common xkcd themes:
* '''Log scales''' and their peculiarities are a recurring xkcd theme, and this is the second comic in a row to play with logarithms (the prior one being [[2891: Log Cabin]]).
* It's also the second comic in the last four to involve '''predictions across centuries''' (i.e. [[2889: Greenhouse Effect]]).
* Another '''extrapolation''' comic include [[605: Extrapolating]]. And this comic looks a lot like [[1007: Sustainable]].

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[A graph with the x-axis showing time, from the years 1950 to around 2275. The y-axis is a log scale showing the price of a banana from $0.10 to over $10.00. A label called "Price of a banana (BLS/St. Louis ''Fred''[https://fred.stlouisfed.org/])" show a rising trend in the price of a banana. There are two dots on that trend. One is labeled "Episode airs" and the other one "Now". 3 extrapolations shown as dashed lines labeled "General inflation rate", "Fresh fruit price trend" and "Banana price trend" extend until reaching the $10 mark, indicated by 3 dots.]

:[Caption above the graph:] "It's one banana, Michael. What could it cost? $10?"

:[Caption below the panel:] That line probably has another century or so left.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Line graphs]]
[[Category:Timelines]]
[[Category:Fiction]]
[[Category:Extrapolation]]

Talk:1579: Tech Loops

2015-09-21T14:47:00Z

141.101.99.108:

RANDALL, WHY DID YOU GIVE ME AN EXISTENIAL CRISIS?! [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.113|173.245.54.113]] 10:49, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

There are only three loops; "Awful hack from 2009" and "IRC for some reason" forms one, "Tool" → "Updater" → "Library" → "Tool" is the second, and there's a long one from "Awful hack from 2009" → "Library" → "Library" → "Custom settings" → "Library" → "Hardware workaround" → "Awful hack from 2009". Any other path not from "DLL needed by something" ends at "Repository". [[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.193|108.162.237.193]] 04:35, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

: I think the fact that "Repository" ends to be a sink (only entering connections) is a mistake - all other have at least one entry and at least one exit --[[User:JakubNarebski|JakubNarebski]] ([[User talk:JakubNarebski|talk]]) 07:24, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

:: No, I think that makes sense. A repository is where something is stored. If it's in use by something, it's not a repository. Of course, I'm thinking that repository means something like "USB Hard Drive", so I might be wrong. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.187|108.162.249.187]] 09:12, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
::: I agree to this. A repository is a perfect location for "dumping" things where they never come back [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 09:31, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
:::: I interpreted it to mean that the repository hosts the things it is dependent on, using the things it is dependent on, making the loop conceptual. The code that is hosted in the repository is only ultimately required because of the need for the repository to host thing code that the repository runs on. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.187|141.101.98.187]] 11:19, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
::The library at the bottom right does not have any entry, so there is also a start! So one that only has exits and one that only has entries! No error there I also think!--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:33, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

Doesn't Buddha sais "The Path is the Goal"? Just because what you are doing is on path which seems to go nowhere doesn't mean the path is not worth it. Did you saw any tourist complaining that the trek he's on is supposed to end on the same place it started? -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 12:07, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Does it bother anyone else that he wrote "soley" or am I missing something? {{unsigned ip|108.162.216.40}}
:It also bothers John and Nancy, but it doesn't bother me because he was obviously talking about doing it by means of a fish.[[User:N0lqu|-boB]] ([[User talk:N0lqu|talk]])
:::The image is corrected [http://www.xkcd.com/1579/]. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.50.154|173.245.50.154]] 13:40, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

When I see this comic I think its less about "how tech people find complicated solutions to things" and more about how as time goes on they end up with increasingly complex workarounds to get old stuff to work. Like in https://xkcd.com/1305/ they wanted to use the chat group, but for that they needed the VM, but according to this comic they need hardware workaround for that, which needs a library to work, which needs custom settings, which needs a library, etc.... Thoughts? {{unsigned|Pyrolo}}

I don't get the current "explanation" at all which goes off on a seemingly off-topic tangent on Android programming (not to mention that I don't agree that gps-based apps to find nearby gas stations are the typical introductory apps source code one might find.)
From the design of the xkcd panel, it's obviously targeted at a Windows desktop computer rather than Android, given the mention of DLLs. You could trivially substitute DLL by "shared library" (aka ".so") and make it a Linux or other Unix-compatible system, which combined with Windows would cover 99.99% of existing desktop systems. And of course a reference to [https://xkcd.com/349/ 349] shall be made when it comes to hardware workarounds.
Given this context, the comic is more about how much of the time one might spend on a computer as a geek tends to be in maintaining the system itself rather using it, up to the point where maintaining the system becomes the main goal. Most people consider computers as tools to achieve something else -- e.g. to write a book or balance their bank account; however here Randall is using his computer just for the sake of maintaining the OS or the hardware on said computer. It's tools for the sake of tooling, rather than tools as helpers to build something else. If somebody knows how to express that more fluently, please do so.
:A hardware equivalent would be reprap: get a 3d printer and end up spending all the time printing 3d parts for the printer instead of creating something else like toys or art.
:I've modified the explanation with a variation of this; I've left the original explanation in place since maybe there's some value in it. Please edit as you see fit. [[User:Ralfoide|Ralfoide]] ([[User talk:Ralfoide|talk]]) 14:53, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

A great deal of all that we do, as individuals, and as a society, directly or indirectly maintains our ability to do so.
Such a tiny sliver of our lives is "unproductive", but that's literally the only reason we do any of the "productive" parts of life.
The only things really worth doing are the things there is no real reason for doing.
Does that make sense?
[[User:Benjaminikuta|Benjaminikuta]] ([[User talk:Benjaminikuta|talk]]) 18:07, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

In a broader sense, one might even say that the basic human desire to socialise is evolutionarily advantageous, serving the purpose of continuing the species. In that broad sense, everything that we do is merely "maintaining a huge chain of technology solely to support itself". Reminds me of https://xkcd.com/59/. It's easy to forget why we do things in life. [[User:Benjaminikuta|Benjaminikuta]] ([[User talk:Benjaminikuta|talk]]) 18:14, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Forget about official "tech people," even godforsaken ordinary users spend way too much time wrestling with this stuff. I myself always quail when I see a .dll in the distance. It has never ended well for me.[[User:NoniMausa|NoniMausa]] ([[User talk:NoniMausa|talk]]) 01:08, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

Sometimes you eat too much dogfood. If you write a toolkit, and then find you need to write a buildsystem (or other infrastructure) and at some point find your buildsystem using the toolkit, you are probably doing something wrong. Note the exception of writing an IDE in your toolkit, for your toolkit, is not only okay, it is doing it wring.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.235|162.158.90.235]] 10:45, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

I'm the author of the original explanation (that about Android things). It looked good to me at that time (mostly justified by the "things I actually want to do with my computer" bit), however the "new" explanation by Ralfoide looks much better now, so probably mine should be just deleted (I'm not doing just that right now because I lack the time to search for useful bits to keep, if any). By the way, the Android story actually happened to a friend of mine just as told. :) [[Special:Contributions/108.162.229.183|108.162.229.183]] 21:54, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

This is me again from another IP. I changed the wording of my original explanation and changed the Android stuff to a reference to comic 949. Now I feel like the first explanation was awfully worded and this one says about the same thing but fits much better. Or something [[Special:Contributions/108.162.229.236|108.162.229.236]] 10:21, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

The current explanation is wrong. The joke is that there are a lot of running components in Randall's computer (services, daemons, applications...) whose only purpose is to enable the execution of the other components in the loop. In other words, performing busywork, which is a waste of computer resources. The chain probably started when Randall wanted to test a new software in Linux, that is known to have a nightmarish package system based on dependencies, so he had to install a lot of libraries and perform some ugly hacks to get the software working, which in turn required other packages to be installed and tweaked. At one point, one of the packages or hacks had a circular dependency with the original software and created a loop. By then, Randall had already forgotten why he wanted to use that software in the first place, and now he only uses it to keep the rest of the loop running. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.108|141.101.99.108]] 10:41, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
: The footer begins "Every now and then", so this is not about a single event. Also, the "DLL" part does not match this being Linux-specific. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.229.236|108.162.229.236]] 11:23, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
:: Yeah, this is not the first time he accidentally created a self-sustained loop, but it probably always happen for the same reason. It's pretty clear to me that the strip refers to a linux system because its software distribution philosophy is literally a mess, unlike every other system whose applications are self-contained in one neat file with no other dependencies. To support my point, note how the DLL files are conveniently NOT part of the loop; this is what makes them hilarious and what's baffling Randall: he has no idea about which component is relying on them because they do not belong in a Linux system. In any case, the fact that there is a (probably windows) VM running in the mix, plus an Irc client, points to the loop being multi-system wide, so that is a botch of epic proportions. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.108|141.101.99.108]] 14:47, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

Talk:1579: Tech Loops

2015-09-21T10:41:42Z

141.101.99.108:

RANDALL, WHY DID YOU GIVE ME AN EXISTENIAL CRISIS?! [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.113|173.245.54.113]] 10:49, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

There are only three loops; "Awful hack from 2009" and "IRC for some reason" forms one, "Tool" → "Updater" → "Library" → "Tool" is the second, and there's a long one from "Awful hack from 2009" → "Library" → "Library" → "Custom settings" → "Library" → "Hardware workaround" → "Awful hack from 2009". Any other path not from "DLL needed by something" ends at "Repository". [[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.193|108.162.237.193]] 04:35, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

: I think the fact that "Repository" ends to be a sink (only entering connections) is a mistake - all other have at least one entry and at least one exit --[[User:JakubNarebski|JakubNarebski]] ([[User talk:JakubNarebski|talk]]) 07:24, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

:: No, I think that makes sense. A repository is where something is stored. If it's in use by something, it's not a repository. Of course, I'm thinking that repository means something like "USB Hard Drive", so I might be wrong. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.187|108.162.249.187]] 09:12, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
::: I agree to this. A repository is a perfect location for "dumping" things where they never come back [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 09:31, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
:::: I interpreted it to mean that the repository hosts the things it is dependent on, using the things it is dependent on, making the loop conceptual. The code that is hosted in the repository is only ultimately required because of the need for the repository to host thing code that the repository runs on. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.187|141.101.98.187]] 11:19, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Doesn't Buddha sais "The Path is the Goal"? Just because what you are doing is on path which seems to go nowhere doesn't mean the path is not worth it. Did you saw any tourist complaining that the trek he's on is supposed to end on the same place it started? -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 12:07, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Does it bother anyone else that he wrote "soley" or am I missing something? {{unsigned ip|108.162.216.40}}
:It also bothers John and Nancy, but it doesn't bother me because he was obviously talking about doing it by means of a fish.[[User:N0lqu|-boB]] ([[User talk:N0lqu|talk]])

When I see this comic I think its less about "how tech people find complicated solutions to things" and more about how as time goes on they end up with increasingly complex workarounds to get old stuff to work. Like in https://xkcd.com/1305/ they wanted to use the chat group, but for that they needed the VM, but according to this comic they need hardware workaround for that, which needs a library to work, which needs custom settings, which needs a library, etc.... Thoughts? {{unsigned|Pyrolo}}

I don't get the current "explanation" at all which goes off on a seemingly off-topic tangent on Android programming (not to mention that I don't agree that gps-based apps to find nearby gas stations are the typical introductory apps source code one might find.)
From the design of the xkcd panel, it's obviously targeted at a Windows desktop computer rather than Android, given the mention of DLLs. You could trivially substitute DLL by "shared library" (aka ".so") and make it a Linux or other Unix-compatible system, which combined with Windows would cover 99.99% of existing desktop systems. And of course a reference to [https://xkcd.com/349/ 349] shall be made when it comes to hardware workarounds.
Given this context, the comic is more about how much of the time one might spend on a computer as a geek tends to be in maintaining the system itself rather using it, up to the point where maintaining the system becomes the main goal. Most people consider computers as tools to achieve something else -- e.g. to write a book or balance their bank account; however here Randall is using his computer just for the sake of maintaining the OS or the hardware on said computer. It's tools for the sake of tooling, rather than tools as helpers to build something else. If somebody knows how to express that more fluently, please do so.
:A hardware equivalent would be reprap: get a 3d printer and end up spending all the time printing 3d parts for the printer instead of creating something else like toys or art.
:I've modified the explanation with a variation of this; I've left the original explanation in place since maybe there's some value in it. Please edit as you see fit. [[User:Ralfoide|Ralfoide]] ([[User talk:Ralfoide|talk]]) 14:53, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

A great deal of all that we do, as individuals, and as a society, directly or indirectly maintains our ability to do so.
Such a tiny sliver of our lives is "unproductive", but that's literally the only reason we do any of the "productive" parts of life.
The only things really worth doing are the things there is no real reason for doing.
Does that make sense?
[[User:Benjaminikuta|Benjaminikuta]] ([[User talk:Benjaminikuta|talk]]) 18:07, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

In a broader sense, one might even say that the basic human desire to socialise is evolutionarily advantageous, serving the purpose of continuing the species. In that broad sense, everything that we do is merely "maintaining a huge chain of technology solely to support itself". Reminds me of https://xkcd.com/59/. It's easy to forget why we do things in life. [[User:Benjaminikuta|Benjaminikuta]] ([[User talk:Benjaminikuta|talk]]) 18:14, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Forget about official "tech people," even godforsaken ordinary users spend way too much time wrestling with this stuff. I myself always quail when I see a .dll in the distance. It has never ended well for me.[[User:NoniMausa|NoniMausa]] ([[User talk:NoniMausa|talk]]) 01:08, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

Sometimes you eat too much dogfood. If you write a toolkit, and then find you need to write a buildsystem (or other infrastructure) and at some point find your buildsystem using the toolkit, you are probably doing something wrong. Note the exception of writing an IDE in your toolkit, for your toolkit, is not only okay, it is doing it wring.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.235|162.158.90.235]] 10:45, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

I'm the author of the original explanation (that about Android things). It looked good to me at that time (mostly justified by the "things I actually want to do with my computer" bit), however the "new" explanation by Ralfoide looks much better now, so probably mine should be just deleted (I'm not doing just that right now because I lack the time to search for useful bits to keep, if any). By the way, the Android story actually happened to a friend of mine just as told. :) [[Special:Contributions/108.162.229.183|108.162.229.183]] 21:54, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

This is me again from another IP. I changed the wording of my original explanation and changed the Android stuff to a reference to comic 949. Now I feel like the first explanation was awfully worded and this one says about the same thing but fits much better. Or something [[Special:Contributions/108.162.229.236|108.162.229.236]] 10:21, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

The current explanation is wrong. The joke is that there are a lot of running components in Randall's computer (services, daemons, applications...) whose only purpose is to enable the execution of the other components in the loop. In other words, performing busywork, which is a waste of computer resources. The chain probably started when Randall wanted to test a new software in Linux, that is known to have a nightmarish package system based on dependencies, so he had to install a lot of libraries and perform some ugly hacks to get the software working, which in turn required other packages to be installed and tweaked. At one point, one of the packages or hacks had a circular dependency with the original software and created a loop. By then, Randall had already forgotten why he wanted to use that software in the first place, and now he only uses it to keep the rest of the loop running. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.108|141.101.99.108]] 10:41, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

1574: Trouble for Science

2015-09-07T13:05:24Z

141.101.99.108: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 1574
| date = September 7, 2015
| title = Trouble for Science
| image = trouble_for_science.png
| titletext = Careful mathematical analysis demonstrates small-scale irregularities in Gaussian distribution
}}

==Explanation==
Five newspaper headlines are shown:

;Many commercial antibody-based immunoassays are unreliable
This sentence is true. See Kebaneilwe Lebani, [http://espace.library.uq.edu.au/view/UQ:352531 Antibody Discovery for Development of a Serotyping Dengue Virus NS1 Capture Assay], 2014. In this PhD thesis, 11 references are given.

;Problems with the p-value as an indicator of significance
p-value is the probability that an event is observed just by chance. If p-value is under a treshold level (''α'', usually <5%, or <1% for being more conservative) one can assume that the event observed "exists".
The value used for ''α'' has been proposed by [http://web.lru.dk/sites/lru.dk/files/lru/docs/kap9/kapitel_9_126_On_the_origins.pdf Fisher] and is completely arbitrary.

The use of p-values as a measure of statistical significance is frequently criticized, for example in [http://wiki.bio.dtu.dk/~agpe/papers/pval_notuseful.pdf: Hubbard and Lindsay].
;Overfeeding of laboratory rodents compromises animal models

[http://tpx.sagepub.com/content/24/6/757.full.pdf: Keenan et al.] make this case.

;Replication study fails to reproduce many published results
A [https://explorable.com/replication-study Replication Study] is a study designed to replicate the results of a previous study by using the same methods for a different set of subjects and experimenters. It aims to recreate the results to gain confidence in the results of the previous study as well as ensuring that the findings of the previous study are transferable to other similar areas of study.

Randall is probably referring to this recent study: http://www.nature.com/news/over-half-of-psychology-studies-fail-reproducibility-test-1.18248

;Controlled trials show Bunsen burners make things colder
This is a joke. There is probably some methodological error if putting something under the Bunsen burner flame (which is between 1000K and 2000K) makes it colder. Unless of course that thing is already much hotter than the flame (more than 2000 degrees Kelvin).

Title text:

;Careful mathematical analysis demonstrates small-scale irregularities in Gaussian distribution

==Transcript==
[A simple comic consisting of five newspaper headlines]

Many Commercial Antibody-Based Immunoassays Are Unreliable

Problems With the p-Value as an Indicator of Significance

Overfeeding of Laboratory Rodents Compromises Animal Models

Replication Study Fails to Reproduce Many Published Results

Controlled Trials Show Bunsen Burners Make Things Colder

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Science]]
[[Category:Biology]]
[[Category:Chemistry]]
[[Category:Math]]

Talk:1572: xkcd Survey

2015-09-02T17:46:19Z

141.101.99.108: /* I think we shouldn't force the reader to go to Wikipedia */

Mildly interesting to note that the ordering of most of the checkbox/radiobutton lists randomise each time the survery is loaded. Also, there is at least one other comic where Randall comments about not having figured out HTML imagemaps. Anyone remember which? --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 10:52, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
:It was in one of his "under the logo" news bars, about him starting What If, iirc --[[User:Aescula|Aescula]] ([[User talk:Aescula|talk]]) 11:28, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
I wonder how many people, on reading 'Type "cat" here:', typed '"cat" here:'? I know I did... [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.214|141.101.98.214]] 11:58, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
:Guilty...--[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 12:08, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
: Me too... However you could have typed '"cat" here:', as well... (/edit: I wonder how many different entries the survey's result will reveal) (/edit2: I did not read properly... sorry. I typed '"cat"' not '"cat" here:' -.-)[[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 12:27, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
: I typed meow -[[Special:Contributions/141.101.105.86|141.101.105.86]] 12:41, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
Not sure if it was just me, but the comic wasn't a link at all! The cursor changed into a No cursor for me everytime I mouseover'd the comic. I went to survey using the "Bonus Link!" below the comic page. [[User:Brilliantnut|Brilliantnut]] ([[User talk:Brilliantnut|talk]]) 12:01, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
:Never mind, this was probably due to the WebComics reader extension that I have in my browser. [[User:Brilliantnut|Brilliantnut]] ([[User talk:Brilliantnut|talk]]) 12:03, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
From hearing people on reddit comment about not being able to completely fill the text box (not just the visual box) with the error "Answer too long", it's caused by a 10k character limit. Presumably by Google Docs. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.192|108.162.249.192]] 13:18, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

==Validation==
The validation choices are interesting.
* "Enter a number between 1 and 100" rejects numbers outside this range (e.g. -1) but also reject valid responses (e.g. π).
* "Enter your age" and "Enter the number of $SIBLING" accept invalid responses such as -1. [[User:Paddles|Paddles]] ([[User talk:Paddles|talk]]) 13:29, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
:I (with ''fairly'' honest intention) tried to give non-numeric answers to the two Think Of A Number questions and my the age one (honestly, I had to actually think about that one, for a moment) and found them restricted to numbers only. So obviously Randall's not ''so'' subversive as to allow free text. (BTW, I've ''only'' driven 'stick shift', though an old friend of mine has just gotten an automatic, I think for the first time, which said was rather posh of him.) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.108|141.101.99.108]] 15:55, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
I used an HTML inspector tool to create a unique response to one of the radio button questions. The form claimed to submit successfully; it should be obvious in the results if it worked. - [[User:Frankie|Frankie]] ([[User talk:Frankie|talk]]) 16:29, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

==Identification==
"it's possible that someone may be able to identify you by looking at your responses"
Then why send those informations to Google ? I find the idea of thee survey interesting but why Google doc ? There are other options like Lime Survey. [[User:Seipas|Seipas]] ([[User talk:Seipas|talk]]) 13:37, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
: Given the stated intention to make the collected dataset available publicly, there's no information-security reason to prefer another survey tool over Google. [[User:Paddles|Paddles]] ([[User talk:Paddles|talk]]) 14:21, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

==Not a transcript==
This is mildly interesting, but it is not a transcript. Transcripts are meant mainly for blind people and search engines. Different letter sizes and a frame are not needed. [[User:Xhfz|Xhfz]] ([[User talk:Xhfz|talk]]) 12:54, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
:{| style="text-align:center; border:1pt black solid;"
|| Introducing '''THE XKCD SURVEY''' A search for weird correlations Note: This survey is anonymous, but all responses will be posted publicly so people can play with the data. '''Click here to''' '''take the survey''' Or click here, or here. The whole comic is a link, because I still haven't gotten the hang of HTML imagemaps. 
|}
::The transcript is not only for blind people. And an enhanced layout doesn't harm them but instead it would help them. A speech synthesizer would tell them something like "headline" or "small text at bottom" so that the impaired people would get a much better feeling of the comic. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 15:12, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

I wonder how many people included "battery, horse, staple, correct" in the five random words box.
:I typed ');drop table survey; -- at the end of the random characters text box. I must have been the first person to think of that because the survey was still working. [[User:Jeremyp|Jeremyp]] ([[User talk:Jeremyp|talk]]) 13:46, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

I wish it was funny. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.241.148|108.162.241.148]] 16:20, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

== Tables Vs Bulleted List ==

The list of questions and possible responses has been added to the explanation by myself and xhfz, in different formats. I went for a wikitable, xhfz used a bulleted list. Rather than just overwrite each other, I think we need to have a discussion on which is the best choice. The reasons I believe a wikitable is the best option:
:*Far better expandability, in anticipation of survey results
:*More structured and neater presentation
In general I tend to lean towards tables, but it is probably a constructive discussion to have for the wiki as a whole. I would be interested to hear opinions of bulleted list vs tables in these types of situation.--[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 13:42, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

If we have a table we need colspan instead of rowspan. On the other hand a table is very difficult to maintain. In addition, the table didn't have space for explanations (another column, maybe). [[User:Xhfz|Xhfz]] ([[User talk:Xhfz|talk]]) 13:44, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

:If you used colspan, questions like "How many of these 20 words do you know" would be excessively wide. Perhaps a combination of colspan and rowspan, or simply a single cell with the responses listed as comma seperated list. As far as adding a column for explanations, its pretty trivial. What I'm getting at is that perhaps the format of a table would need to be optimised, but that is entirely feasible.
:I agree with you as far as tables being more intimidating to edit and maintain, but once set up they aren't that bad.
:Bulleted lists (to me at least) look messy, and tend to lack a coherent structure. As more information is added, sub-levels and sub-sub-levels are added without much thought as to the overall intent. --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 14:14, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

By colspan I mean this:
{| class="wikitable"
!Question
!Possible Answers
|-
|colspan="2"|When you think about stuff on the internet, where do you picture it being physically located? Even if you know it's not really how things work, is there a place you imagine websites and social media posts sitting before you look at them? If so, where is it?
|-
|
|''Multi-line text box''
|-
|colspan="2"|Which of these words do you know the meaning of?
|-
|
|Slickle
|-
|
|Rife
|-
|
|Soliloquy
|-
|
|Fination
|-
|
|Stipple
|-
|
|Peristeronic
|-
|
|Modicum
|-
|
|Trephony
|-
|
|Tribution
|-
|colspan="2"|Have you ever thrown out all your different pairs of socks/underwear, bought a bunch of replacements that were all one kind, and then told all your friends how great it was and how they should do it too?
|-
|
|Yes
|-
|
|No
|-
|
|I did the throwing out thing, but didn't talk to everyone about it
|-
|
|No, but I'm totally doing that now
|}
[[User:Xhfz|Xhfz]] ([[User talk:Xhfz|talk]]) 14:44, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

==Missing questions==
Something notably missing which would have greatly helped later analysis was a question about where someone is - Country and/or State. Some of the questions and answers will be differently understood because of that (eg meaning if 'sandwich') --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.65|141.101.98.65]] 14:23, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

:I think that is the whole point though, to provide a data set that actively attempts to ''prevent'' the obvious simple analysis. There are plenty of statistics on how people from place A are more likely to do thing B. What I want to know is "How many people who would class a taco as a sandwich and can drive stick shift are able to juggle?". Also, is it true that most people think they are above average drivers? --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 15:09, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

== Subsections were added for ease of editing ==

You can delete the subsections later. [[User:Xhfz|Xhfz]] ([[User talk:Xhfz|talk]]) 15:30, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
:Ok, I agree on that. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 15:42, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

== I think we shouldn't force the reader to go to Wikipedia ==

I added explanations in "Activities" and twice they were deleted. Why? [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1572:_xkcd_Survey&diff=prev&oldid=100879] [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1572%3A_xkcd_Survey&diff=100921&oldid=100920] [[User:Xhfz|Xhfz]] ([[User talk:Xhfz|talk]]) 15:39, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

:Personally, I think those activities are so easily understood, that adding an "explanation" is not necessary. I think wiki links are sufficient, so that if somehow people don't know what the activities are, they can go look. --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 15:45, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

::I know 20,000 words in [http://testyourvocab.com testyourvocab.com]. I also know soliloquy, modicum, amiable and salient. I had never heard of dunk, sheet bend, bowline, or stick shift, but I know the meaning of manual transmission without going to Wikipedia. [[User:Xhfz|Xhfz]] ([[User talk:Xhfz|talk]]) 15:47, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

:::For the record, it wasn't me who deleted the explanations. The fact that Randall included those words in his survey without any explanation shows that they are fairly common words. In the context of the question, the meaning becomes clearer (Tie a sheet bend or bowline = its very likely those are knots), and if people still don't know, they can click on the wiki link. --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 16:14, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
:::From a different perspective, I ''understand'' a number of the words and terms, even though they aren't the ones I'd use, locally. i.e. gas/petrol, stick-shift/gears, cell phone/mobile phone, soda/pop (and where would cordial, to be diluted with water, sit in that list of drinks..? either way, I chose "fruit juice" so maybe that covers it). Also I think I would call an "open-faced sandwich" a {{w|Sm%C3%B6rg%C3%A5sbord|'Smorgasbord'}}, but that seems to be a childhood misunderstanding of what the scandinavian term actually represents (the whole buffet, not any individual item bread-and-topping construct that you end up with on your platter). "Condiments" obviously means something differently, too. For me that's the likes of salt, pepper and vinegar - along with other chopped herbs at a push - but from context it sounds like it includes dips such as mayonnaise, and/or sauces like ketchup/brown/tartar. A different world, truly! [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.108|141.101.99.108]] 17:46, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

Talk:1572: xkcd Survey

2015-09-02T15:55:21Z

141.101.99.108:

Mildly interesting to note that the ordering of most of the checkbox/radiobutton lists randomise each time the survery is loaded. Also, there is at least one other comic where Randall comments about not having figured out HTML imagemaps. Anyone remember which? --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 10:52, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
:It was in one of his "under the logo" news bars, about him starting What If, iirc --[[User:Aescula|Aescula]] ([[User talk:Aescula|talk]]) 11:28, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
I wonder how many people, on reading 'Type "cat" here:', typed '"cat" here:'? I know I did... [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.214|141.101.98.214]] 11:58, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
:Guilty...--[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 12:08, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
: Me too... However you could have typed '"cat" here:', as well... (/edit: I wonder how many different entries the survey's result will reveal) (/edit2: I did not read properly... sorry. I typed '"cat"' not '"cat" here:' -.-)[[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 12:27, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
: I typed meow -[[Special:Contributions/141.101.105.86|141.101.105.86]] 12:41, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
Not sure if it was just me, but the comic wasn't a link at all! The cursor changed into a No cursor for me everytime I mouseover'd the comic. I went to survey using the "Bonus Link!" below the comic page. [[User:Brilliantnut|Brilliantnut]] ([[User talk:Brilliantnut|talk]]) 12:01, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
:Never mind, this was probably due to the WebComics reader extension that I have in my browser. [[User:Brilliantnut|Brilliantnut]] ([[User talk:Brilliantnut|talk]]) 12:03, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
From hearing people on reddit comment about not being able to completely fill the text box (not just the visual box) with the error "Answer too long", it's caused by a 10k character limit. Presumably by Google Docs. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.192|108.162.249.192]] 13:18, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

The validation choices are interesting.
* "Enter a number between 1 and 100" rejects numbers outside this range (e.g. -1) but also reject valid responses (e.g. π).
* "Enter your age" and "Enter the number of $SIBLING" accept invalid responses such as -1. [[User:Paddles|Paddles]] ([[User talk:Paddles|talk]]) 13:29, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
:I (with ''fairly'' honest intention) tried to give non-numeric answers to the two Think Of A Number questions and my the age one (honestly, I had to actually think about that one, for a moment) and found them restricted to numbers only. So obviously Randall's not ''so'' subversive as to allow free text. (BTW, I've ''only'' driven 'stick shift', though an old friend of mine has just gotten an automatic, I think for the first time, which said was rather posh of him.) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.108|141.101.99.108]] 15:55, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

"it's possible that someone may be able to identify you by looking at your responses"
Then why send those informations to Google ? I find the idea of thee survey interesting but why Google doc ? There are other options like Lime Survey. [[User:Seipas|Seipas]] ([[User talk:Seipas|talk]]) 13:37, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
: Given the stated intention to make the collected dataset available publicly, there's no information-security reason to prefer another survey tool over Google. [[User:Paddles|Paddles]] ([[User talk:Paddles|talk]]) 14:21, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

==Not a transcript==
This is mildly interesting, but it is not a transcript. Transcripts are meant mainly for blind people and search engines. Different letter sizes and a frame are not needed. [[User:Xhfz|Xhfz]] ([[User talk:Xhfz|talk]]) 12:54, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
:{| style="text-align:center; border:1pt black solid;"
|| Introducing '''THE XKCD SURVEY''' A search for weird correlations Note: This survey is anonymous, but all responses will be posted publicly so people can play with the data. '''Click here to''' '''take the survey''' Or click here, or here. The whole comic is a link, because I still haven't gotten the hang of HTML imagemaps. 
|}
::The transcript is not only for blind people. And an enhanced layout doesn't harm them but instead it would help them. A speech synthesizer would tell them something like "headline" or "small text at bottom" so that the impaired people would get a much better feeling of the comic. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 15:12, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

I wonder how many people included "battery, horse, staple, correct" in the five random words box.
:I typed ');drop table survey; -- at the end of the random characters text box. I must have been the first person to think of that because the survey was still working. [[User:Jeremyp|Jeremyp]] ([[User talk:Jeremyp|talk]]) 13:46, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

== Tables Vs Bulleted List ==

The list of questions and possible responses has been added to the explanation by myself and xhfz, in different formats. I went for a wikitable, xhfz used a bulleted list. Rather than just overwrite each other, I think we need to have a discussion on which is the best choice. The reasons I believe a wikitable is the best option:
:*Far better expandability, in anticipation of survey results
:*More structured and neater presentation
In general I tend to lean towards tables, but it is probably a constructive discussion to have for the wiki as a whole. I would be interested to hear opinions of bulleted list vs tables in these types of situation.--[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 13:42, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

If we have a table we need colspan instead of rowspan. On the other hand a table is very difficult to maintain. In addition, the table didn't have space for explanations (another column, maybe). [[User:Xhfz|Xhfz]] ([[User talk:Xhfz|talk]]) 13:44, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

:If you used colspan, questions like "How many of these 20 words do you know" would be excessively wide. Perhaps a combination of colspan and rowspan, or simply a single cell with the responses listed as comma seperated list. As far as adding a column for explanations, its pretty trivial. What I'm getting at is that perhaps the format of a table would need to be optimised, but that is entirely feasible.
:I agree with you as far as tables being more intimidating to edit and maintain, but once set up they aren't that bad.
:Bulleted lists (to me at least) look messy, and tend to lack a coherent structure. As more information is added, sub-levels and sub-sub-levels are added without much thought as to the overall intent. --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 14:14, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

By colspan I mean this:
{| class="wikitable"
!Question
!Possible Answers
|-
|colspan="2"|When you think about stuff on the internet, where do you picture it being physically located? Even if you know it's not really how things work, is there a place you imagine websites and social media posts sitting before you look at them? If so, where is it?
|-
|
|''Multi-line text box''
|-
|colspan="2"|Which of these words do you know the meaning of?
|-
|
|Slickle
|-
|
|Rife
|-
|
|Soliloquy
|-
|
|Fination
|-
|
|Stipple
|-
|
|Peristeronic
|-
|
|Modicum
|-
|
|Trephony
|-
|
|Tribution
|-
|colspan="2"|Have you ever thrown out all your different pairs of socks/underwear, bought a bunch of replacements that were all one kind, and then told all your friends how great it was and how they should do it too?
|-
|
|Yes
|-
|
|No
|-
|
|I did the throwing out thing, but didn't talk to everyone about it
|-
|
|No, but I'm totally doing that now
|}
[[User:Xhfz|Xhfz]] ([[User talk:Xhfz|talk]]) 14:44, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

==Missing questions==
Something notably missing which would have greatly helped later analysis was a question about where someone is - Country and/or State. Some of the questions and answers will be differently understood because of that (eg meaning if 'sandwich') --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.65|141.101.98.65]] 14:23, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

:I think that is the whole point though, to provide a data set that actively attempts to ''prevent'' the obvious simple analysis. There are plenty of statistics on how people from place A are more likely to do thing B. What I want to know is "How many people who would class a taco as a sandwich and can drive stick shift are able to juggle?". Also, is it true that most people think they are above average drivers? --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 15:09, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

== Subsections were added for ease of editing ==

You can delete the subsections later. [[User:Xhfz|Xhfz]] ([[User talk:Xhfz|talk]]) 15:30, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
:Ok, I agree on that. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 15:42, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

== I think we shouldn't force the reader to go to Wikipedia ==

I added explanations in "Activities" and twice they were deleted. Why? [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1572:_xkcd_Survey&diff=prev&oldid=100879] [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1572%3A_xkcd_Survey&diff=100921&oldid=100920] [[User:Xhfz|Xhfz]] ([[User talk:Xhfz|talk]]) 15:39, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

:Personally, I think those activities are so easily understood, that adding an "explanation" is not necessary. I think wiki links are sufficient, so that if somehow people don't know what the activities are, they can go look. --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 15:45, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

::I know 20,000 words in [http://testyourvocab.com testyourvocab.com]. I also know soliloquy, modicum, amiable and salient. I had never heard of dunk, sheet bend, bowline, or stick shift, but I know the meaning of manual transmission without going to Wikipedia. [[User:Xhfz|Xhfz]] ([[User talk:Xhfz|talk]]) 15:47, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

Talk:1571: Car Model Names

2015-09-02T00:35:25Z

141.101.99.108:

Suzuki Sexism kinda has a ring to it... [[User:Bbruzzo|Bbruzzo]] ([[User talk:Bbruzzo|talk]]) 14:39, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

== Scores ==

Anyone know how the averages are calculated? I tried a couple but I don't arrive at the same numbers:

HONDA { -44 -80 -46 -21 -14 } Sum: -205 Avg: -41 
2CHAINZ { +6 +27 -44 -14 -21 -46 +83 } Sum: -9 Avg: -1.2857142857142857142857142857143 
Combined: (-205 -9) / (5 + 7) = -17.833333333333333333333333333333 

[[User:SG 01|SG 01]] ([[User talk:SG 01|talk]]) 15:29, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

I think only the model should be considered. [[User:Xhfz|Xhfz]] ([[User talk:Xhfz|talk]]) 15:36, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

:2CHAINZ { +6 +27 -44 -14 -21 -46 +83 } Sum: -9 Avg: -1.29 Index: -0.13
:CLIMAX { +27 +12 -21 +19 -14 +126} Sum: 149 Avg: 24.83 Index: 2.48

Obvioulsy it's the average divided by 10. [[User:Xhfz|Xhfz]] ([[User talk:Xhfz|talk]]) 15:44, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Ah, it's so obvious now, thanks :) [[User:SG 01|SG 01]] ([[User talk:SG 01|talk]]) 16:00, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

I worked it out to be average divided by 10 early on but why divided by 10? Is it because each category has 10 cars listed? This is the piece I've been stuck at. Understanding that part of the logic. --[[User:R0hrshach|R0hrshach]] ([[User talk:R0hrshach|talk]]) 16:05, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

The only thing I can think of is to make the numbers be below 10 as a lot of scoring is done in that scale, then again, that doesn't include numbers below 1 usually (On a scale from 1 - 10).
Oh, also the 3x3cutrix, the i is worth -21, not -45 (which is E), the x in 3x3 is treated as a normal x with score 126
:3X3CUTRIX { +55 -126 +55 +27 -68 -18 8 -21 +126 } Sum: 290 Avg: 32.222... Index: 3.22
[[User:SG 01|SG 01]] ([[User talk:SG 01|talk]]) 16:17, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

OK, my mistake. Thanks. [[User:Xhfz|Xhfz]] ([[User talk:Xhfz|talk]]) 16:27, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
BTW: 3X3CUTRIX { +55 +126 +55 +27 -68 -18 +8 -21 +126 } Sum: 290

Yea, made a typo there originally, did edit-fix it ^^ Also SIXAXLE4x4 { +15 -21 +126 -14 +126 +12 -45 +35 +126 +35 } Sum: 395 Avg: 39.5 Index: 3.95 (which is the number next to it)

[[User:SG 01|SG 01]] ([[User talk:SG 01|talk]]) 16:33, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Mercedes 3X-WIF3 scores a decent 3,33 [[Special:Contributions/198.41.243.9|198.41.243.9]] 18:46, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Anyone want a Porsche 911? [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 18:53, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

:The Saab Y. Worst possible car name. The Oldsmobile XXX. Best possible car name. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.4|173.245.54.4]] 19:33, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Seems worth mentioning somewhere that 3x3cutrix is semi leet/133+ for the English word executrix, the feminine form of executor, but I don't know quite where it belongs. [[User:Miamiclay|Miamiclay]] ([[User talk:Miamiclay|talk]]) 20:49, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

"The letters F and B, with scores of 5 and -5, respectively, are about as common in English as in car models." Looked odd, at first reading. May need re-writing to point out that ±5 is as close to zero (parity between English and car-speak) as you get in this example. Perhaps "...scores of ''merely'' +5 and -5, respectively", or similar? But that also seems too brief. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.108|141.101.99.108]] 01:37, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
:Forgot to add what I meant to put here... Apostrophes. Very rare in car names (just the {{w|Kia_Cee%27d|Kia Cee'd}}), fairly often (over)used in standard English text. I wonder what its value is? (Not as easily 'assume it's a letter' as the x/times symbol.) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.108|141.101.99.108]] 01:44, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

===Order of the scores===
There are two possible explanations
;Score(x) = Frecuency_in_cars(x) - Frequency_in_English(x)
I'm pretty sure it's a comparative scale between cars and English, not just a car-like/not-car-like scale.
:Randall uses positive numbers if a letter is more common in car models than in typical English (as X) which he then calls carlike. He used negative numbers if a letter's relative frequency in car models is lower than in typical English (as O) and he calls it English-like (more suitable for readable text). The letters F and B, with scores of 5 and -5, respectively, are about as common in English as in car models. With this nomenclature, the most English-like letter is Y because, while not the most common English letter, it is apparently extremely rare in car models.

;Score(x) = Frequency_in_cars(x)
English has no relationship with the score
:It seems that Randall arbitrarily used positive and negative numbers: if a letter is very common in car models (as X) he calls it carlike. If a letter is very uncommon in car models (as O) he calls it English-like. With this nomenclature the most English-like letter is Y, but actually Y is the least carlike letter. The most common letter in ordinary English is E. Y on the other hand is just in the middle (place 13), which can't be called English-like.
[[User:Xhfz|Xhfz]] ([[User talk:Xhfz|talk]]) 12:56, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
::"Y (...) can't be called English-like". Well, it can be, as it's not uncommon. And on the relative scale, it's much more indicative of being English than it is of being a car. And I'm going to give the explanation a further tweak, I think, hopefully small and agreeable. Also don't think the reversion helped (without checking the edit-changes), it was almost right. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.108|141.101.99.108]] 13:24, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
Now I understood your idea. I think I tweaked it to be more understandable. X is a letter that supports your claim. [[User:Xhfz|Xhfz]] ([[User talk:Xhfz|talk]]) 13:41, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

I'd like to suggest a third possibility, I figured it was a ratio: Score(x) = 100*(Frecuency_in_cars(x) / Frequency_in_English(x) - 1). This allows numbers to be negative or positive and would explain the questions raised above. [[User:Djbrasier|Djbrasier]] ([[User talk:Djbrasier|talk]]) 13:53, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

Well, my "little tweak" became a big overhaul, then edit-conflicted. For the record, it became the following monstrosity:
Scores for letters and numbers are presumably taken from their frequency in car models. [[Randall]] doubtless analysed a car-name database, in a manner similar to that used to derive the {{w|https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_frequency#Relative_frequencies_of_letters_in_the_English_language|letter frequency statistics for written English}} against which the former seems to have been compared. From these, letters that appeared equally commonly in both lists (either rare or frequent, but consistently between the two) would have been given a hypothetical value of zero, whilst ones that were almost exclusively in one medium would have a high-magnitude score; positive for more car-like and negative for more English-like.
Without the raw car-letter frequency data it's hard to derive the exact formula used, but taking the mathematical {{w|Logarithm|log value}} of a ratio would give us zero for 1:1 (equally car-like and English-like) and high positive/negative values for comparisons more skewed more towards the former/latter.
The closest letters to zero in the comic are F at +5 and B at -5 and may hover somewhere around the same ratios in car-names as in English (around 2.2% and 1.4% of total usage in the above link), with just a slight car/English dominance. The most 'car-like' letter is X, that seems to be quite common in cars whilst very rare (<1% of usage) in English.
The most 'English-like' letter in the comic is Y with a score of -90. Y is not common in English (~2%), but presumably even more disproportionately uncommon in car names. The next most 'English-like' letter, O, with a given score of -80. It is significantly more frequent in English (~7.5%, and perhaps the fourth most encountered individual letter), and so is likely also more frequent in the raw car-name data, alone, albeit similarly much less than 'expected' from its English occurances.
It makes some sense that rarer English letters are over-chosen (for the novelty and stand-out effect) for car names, at the general expense of several commoner English letters without particular bias, thus the highest positive peak is greater in magnitude than the lowest negative trough. Although you could also point out that 'x' (used for 'times') is also a more useful car-name 'letter', whilst the letter O might be surpressed in alphanumeric sequences so as not to be confused with a zero.
When looking at the numbers in the table, Randall's analysis may have dealt with the decimal digits entirely seperately, based upon something like {{w|Benford%27s_law|Benford's Law}} for the natural occurance of numbers in common data, rather than from their disproportionately rare occurance within largely alphabetic English. It is thus not unexpected that the 1 that is most common in data is underepresented within numbers in car-names, whilst sub-avearge 5 becomes a 'power number' in the world of cars, and the third most car-like character in the comic.
There are 19 positive scores and 17 negative scores. They each add up to a score of 735 and -722, respectively, with the grand total being +13, suggesting that without rounding errors the whole system could have a neutral score. The numbers alone give a total offset of -0, the letters alone thus account for a not particularly unreasonable +0.5 'error' per character, and may also support the idea of separate analyses of these two sets.
...there was no easy way to resolve the differences, so the above is FYI. ('''TLDR: perhaps it's a Log function?''') In editing it down, I'd also had another bit:
The letters I and T may appear in non-word model-name strings to represent "Injection" and "Turbo", respectively, but with their overwhelming commonality already in English text they still appear ''more'' more in English than in cars.
...which was looked less useful and too wordy even for me, but might also be a useful fragment to consider. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.108|141.101.99.108]] 15:09, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

== Typo or Deliberate? ==

Randall gave REV-4 as an example car name. Did he accidentally misspell the (Toyota) RAV4, or was this a deliberate reference to chapter 4 of Revelations?--[[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.26|173.245.54.26]] 02:31, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

== Old Goths ==

49 is a reasonable age for those who grew up Goth in the 80s, just sayin'.
--[[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.123|141.101.99.123]] 08:47, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

I thought this too. It could be a joke on a youth sub-culture growing up (old).
-- [[Special:Contributions/108.162.229.157|108.162.229.157]] 11:28, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

== 'Quick' and Dirty Car Data ==
Examining {{w|List_of_automobile_sales_by_model|this page}}, which has notable exceptions (I specifically looked for the Toyota '''Y'''aris and the Kia Cee'd, neither of which were there), using a quick script to isolate the car names, a lengthy ''manual'' process of sanitising all the exceptions the quick script couldn't handle and then another script to analyse letter frequencies of the model names (''not'' the make/marque part), I came up with the following undefinitive data, that is almost certainly flawed but may yet be useful:
<spaces> = 85 (but this count of whitespace may not be accurate and is superfluous...
& = 1 (...as are these first four items of punctuation, given their absence from Randall's chart)
- = 23
. = 3
/ = 10
0 = 104
1 = 73
2 = 54
3 = 43
4 = 35
5 = 54
6 = 35
7 = 18
8 = 26
9 = 17
A = 231 (includes à)
B = 30
C = 95
D = 54
E = 210 (includes é and ë)
F = 46
G = 52
H = 18
I = 122
J = 12
K = 13
L = 113
M = 83
N = 99
O = 145 (includes ó)
P = 80
Q = 4
R = 202
S = 127 (includes Š)
T = 166
U = 45
V = 38
W = 19
X = 25
Y = 33
Z = 14
Comparing just B and F (natural frequency 1.4% and 2.2%, above 30 to 46, both instances being approximately 1:1.5 when comparing the two letters within the same source), this matches the similarly close-to-zero scores given to them by Randall. O vs. Y is 4.4:1, above, real life is 3.8:1 and adjusting for O being 1/9th 'more carlike' we get a similar value. But Z vs J is 7:6, real life it's 1:2 and I can't reconcile that with the 1.3:1 on Randall's chart. Probably indicates something non-linear (e.g. a log function) along the way, if O:Y wasn't so easy to distinguish. Might, of course, be a differently biased dataset and thus GIGO. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.108|141.101.99.108]] 00:35, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

Talk:1571: Car Model Names

2015-09-01T15:09:59Z

141.101.99.108: /* Order of the scores */

Talk:1571: Car Model Names

2015-09-01T13:24:41Z

141.101.99.108: /* Scores */

Talk:1571: Car Model Names

2015-09-01T01:44:47Z

141.101.99.108: /* Averages */

Suzuki Sexism kinda has a ring to it... [[User:Bbruzzo|Bbruzzo]] ([[User talk:Bbruzzo|talk]]) 14:39, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

== Averages ==

Anyone know how the averages are calculated? I tried a couple but I don't arrive at the same numbers:

HONDA { -44 -80 -46 -21 -14 } Sum: -205 Avg: -41 
2CHAINZ { +6 +27 -44 -14 -21 -46 +83 } Sum: -9 Avg: -1.2857142857142857142857142857143 
Combined: (-205 -9) / (5 + 7) = -17.833333333333333333333333333333 

[[User:SG 01|SG 01]] ([[User talk:SG 01|talk]]) 15:29, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

I think only the model should be considered. [[User:Xhfz|Xhfz]] ([[User talk:Xhfz|talk]]) 15:36, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

:2CHAINZ { +6 +27 -44 -14 -21 -46 +83 } Sum: -9 Avg: -1.29 Index: -0.13
:CLIMAX { +27 +12 -21 +19 -14 +126} Sum: 149 Avg: 24.83 Index: 2.48

Obvioulsy it's the average divided by 10. [[User:Xhfz|Xhfz]] ([[User talk:Xhfz|talk]]) 15:44, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Ah, it's so obvious now, thanks :) [[User:SG 01|SG 01]] ([[User talk:SG 01|talk]]) 16:00, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

I worked it out to be average divided by 10 early on but why divided by 10? Is it because each category has 10 cars listed? This is the piece I've been stuck at. Understanding that part of the logic. --[[User:R0hrshach|R0hrshach]] ([[User talk:R0hrshach|talk]]) 16:05, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

The only thing I can think of is to make the numbers be below 10 as a lot of scoring is done in that scale, then again, that doesn't include numbers below 1 usually (On a scale from 1 - 10).
Oh, also the 3x3cutrix, the i is worth -21, not -45 (which is E), the x in 3x3 is treated as a normal x with score 126
:3X3CUTRIX { +55 -126 +55 +27 -68 -18 8 -21 +126 } Sum: 290 Avg: 32.222... Index: 3.22
[[User:SG 01|SG 01]] ([[User talk:SG 01|talk]]) 16:17, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

OK, my mistake. Thanks. [[User:Xhfz|Xhfz]] ([[User talk:Xhfz|talk]]) 16:27, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
BTW: 3X3CUTRIX { +55 +126 +55 +27 -68 -18 +8 -21 +126 } Sum: 290

Yea, made a typo there originally, did edit-fix it ^^ Also SIXAXLE4x4 { +15 -21 +126 -14 +126 +12 -45 +35 +126 +35 } Sum: 395 Avg: 39.5 Index: 3.95 (which is the number next to it)

[[User:SG 01|SG 01]] ([[User talk:SG 01|talk]]) 16:33, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Mercedes 3X-WIF3 scores a decent 3,33 [[Special:Contributions/198.41.243.9|198.41.243.9]] 18:46, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Anyone want a Porsche 911? [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 18:53, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

:The Saab Y. Worst possible car name. The Oldsmobile XXX. Best possible car name. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.4|173.245.54.4]] 19:33, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Seems worth mentioning somewhere that 3x3cutrix is semi leet/133+ for the English word executrix, the feminine form of executor, but I don't know quite where it belongs. [[User:Miamiclay|Miamiclay]] ([[User talk:Miamiclay|talk]]) 20:49, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

"The letters F and B, with scores of 5 and -5, respectively, are about as common in English as in car models." Looked odd, at first reading. May need re-writing to point out that ±5 is as close to zero (parity between English and car-speak) as you get in this example. Perhaps "...scores of ''merely'' +5 and -5, respectively", or similar? But that also seems too brief. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.108|141.101.99.108]] 01:37, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
:Forgot to add what I meant to put here... Apostrophes. Very rare in car names (just the {{w|Kia_Cee%27d|Kia Cee'd}}), fairly often (over)used in standard English text. I wonder what its value is? (Not as easily 'assume it's a letter' as the x/times symbol.) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.108|141.101.99.108]] 01:44, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

Talk:1571: Car Model Names

2015-09-01T01:37:17Z

141.101.99.108: /* Averages */

1571: Car Model Names

2015-09-01T01:14:57Z

141.101.99.108: /* Potential Hits */ Removing what I'm sure was a stray 'Note'

{{comic
| number = 1571
| date = August 31, 2015
| title = Car Model Names
| image = car_model_names.png
| titletext = CLIMAX is good, but SEXCLIMAX is even better.
}}

==Explanation==

In English, letters like X and Z are rarely used in the common vernacular. Marketers have found that names with these infrequently-appearing letters sell more products.

===Scores===
Scores for letters and numbers are presumably taken from their frequency in car models. [[Randall]] must have used a car-name database to create the scores. Randall uses positive numbers if a letter is more common in car models than in typical English (as X) which he then calls carlike. He used negative numbers if a letter's relative frequency in car models is lower than in typical English (as O) and he calls it English-like (more suitable for readable text). The letters F and B, with scores of 5 and -5, respectively, are about as common in English as in car models. With this nomenclature, the most English-like letter is Y because, while not the most common English letter, it is apparently extremely rare in car models. The most common letter in ordinary English is E.

There are 19 positive scores and 17 negative scores.

===Algorithm for the index===
Randall devised an index for car models which is the score average divided by 10.

;Example
We take 2Chainz and add the scores of its different numbers and letters: 6 +27 -44 -14 -21 -46 +83 = -9

Average is -9/7 = -1.29 and divided by 10 it's -0.129 or -0.13.

===Names to avoid===
*Honda '''2Chainz''' - {{w|2 Chainz}} is an American rapper
*Mitsubishi '''Fhqwhgads''' - A reference to a running joke on {{w|Homestar Runner}}. See http://www.hrwiki.org/wiki/Fhqwhgads
*Kia '''49andGothy''' - Gothy or gothic is a member of the {{w|goth subculture}}; most of its members are much younger than 49
*Chevrolet '''Niceguy''' - A reference to the idiom "nice guys finish last".
*Oldsmobile '''Goodwood''' - May be a reference to the {{w|Goodwood Festival of Speed}}
*Infiniti '''Toothy69'''
*BMW '''Outhouse''' - Loose standing toilet, or {{w|Outhouse}}.
*Volkswagen '''Woodpony 7oh7''' - Wood ponies are wooden constructions to give kids (and sometimes adults) the feeling of riding a horse, but don't actually move. 7oh7 is a way to pronounce 707, which could be a reference to the Boeing 707 passenger jet series.
*Chrysler '''Uh Iono''' - When pronounced, sounds roughly like someone slurring "Uh, I don't know" [http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=iono]
*Nissan '''Doody''' - May reference the unfortunately named {{w|Nissan Moco}}, which is Spanish for snot

===Potential Hits===
*Honda '''3Chainz''' - A play on 2Chainz in the previous section; according to the table the number 2 has a score of 6 and the number 3 has a higher score of 55; the index will go up by (55-6)/7/10=0.7.
*Subaru '''Andre3000''' - {{w|André 3000}} is an American rapper
*Suzuki '''Sexism''' - Akihiro Suzuki is a Tokyo city assemblyman who made sexist remarks in June 2014.
*Lincoln '''Marxism''' - {{w|Marxism}} is a form of communism. There are various essays noting its founder and {{w|Abraham Lincoln}} exchanged letters during the American civil war.
*Hyundai '''Climax''' - In this context, an {{w|orgasm}}. The title text finds an excuse to add another "x" with the portmanteau '''SexClimax'''.
*Porsche '''Zizek9000''' - A portmanteau referencing academic {{w|Slavoj Žižek}} and the {{w|Saab 9000}}
*Lexus '''3×3Cutrix''' - 3×3 is a play on 4×4; this car presumably has 3 wheels. "Executrix" is the female counterpart of "executor", one who administers a will.
*Acura '''PizzaJazz''' - The letter Z has a very high score, so using 4 of them in a fairly short name makes this a potential hit.
*Ford '''SixAxle 4×4''' - A contradictory name, as the 4×4 refers to a vehicle that has all four wheels connected to the drivetrain, which would only use two axles. May also be a reference to the Sony PlayStation's {{w|Sixaxis controller}}.
*Toyota '''Cervixxx''' - A portmanteau of {{w|cervix}} and XXX rating used by pornographic industry to make titles seem more extreme (see {{w|X rating}}). It being the highest scoring item on the list may be an attempt to show that {{w|sex sells}}.

Note that Randall gives the symbol × the value of 126, which means he equates it with the letter x.
:index(3×3Cutrix) = (+55 + score(×) +55 +27 -68 -18 +8 -21 +126)/9/10 = 3.22. This means that the score of the symbol × is 90×3.22 - 164 = 125.8

===Title text===

==Transcript==
:{| style="text-align:center; border:0px; width:63%;"
| '''Certain letters and numbers are used disproportionately often in car models compared to regular text.'''
|-
| (see:"Rev-4 cr-x x3 G6 Maxx")
|}

:{| style="text-align:center; border:1pt black solid;"
| colspan="37" | '''Letter and number scores based on relative frequency in car model names'''
|-
| style="text-align:left;" | Carlike
|| 60
||
|| 6
|| 55
|| 35
|| 74
|| 6
||
||
||
||
||
|| 27
||
||
|| 5
|| 27
||
||
|| 64
|| 32
|| 12
|| 19
||
||
||
|| 40
|| 8
|| 15
||
||
|| 41
||
|| 126
||
|| 83
|-
||
|| '''0'''
|| '''1'''
|| '''2'''
|| '''3'''
|| '''4'''
|| '''5'''
|| '''6'''
|| '''7'''
|| '''8'''
|| '''9'''
|| '''A'''
|| '''B'''
|| '''C'''
|| '''D'''
|| '''E'''
|| '''F'''
|| '''G'''
|| '''H'''
|| '''I'''
|| '''J'''
|| '''K'''
|| '''L'''
|| '''M'''
|| '''N'''
|| '''O'''
|| '''P'''
|| '''Q'''
|| '''R'''
|| '''S'''
|| '''T'''
|| '''U'''
|| '''V'''
|| '''W'''
|| '''X'''
|| '''Y'''
|| '''Z'''
|-
| style="text-align:left;" | English-like
||
|| -74
||
||
||
||
||
|| -58
|| -67
|| -37
|| -14
|| -5
||
|| -21
|| -45
||
||
|| -44
|| -21
||
||
||
||
|| -46
|| -80
|| -27
||
||
||
|| -18
|| -68
||
|| -20
||
|| -90
||
|}

:{| style="text-align:center; border:0px; width:63%;"
| '''Based on these scores, here are a few suggestions for car companies:'''
|-
| (with average letter scores)
|}

:{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center; border:1pt black solid; width:63%;"
| colspan="2" | '''Names to avoid'''
| colspan="2" | '''Potential hits'''
|-
| style="text-align:right; width:25%; color:#808080;" | Honda
| style="text-align:left;" | '''2Chainz''' (-0.13)
| style="text-align:right; width:25%; color:#808080;" | Honda
| style="text-align:left;" | '''3Chainz''' (0.57)
|-
| style="text-align:right; color:#808080;" | Mitsubishi
| style="text-align:left;" | '''Fhqwhgads''' (-0.62)
| style="text-align:right; color:#808080;" | Subaru
| style="text-align:left;" | '''Andre3000''' (1.30)
|-
| style="text-align:right; color:#808080;" | Kia
| style="text-align:left;" | '''49AndGothy''' (-2.96)
| style="text-align:right; color:#808080;" | Suzuki
| style="text-align:left;" | '''Sexism''' (1.82)
|-
| style="text-align:right; color:#808080;" | Chevrolet
| style="text-align:left;" | '''Niceguy''' (-3.09)
| style="text-align:right; color:#808080;" | Lincoln
| style="text-align:left;" | '''Marxism''' (2.17)
|-
| style="text-align:right; color:#808080;" | Oldsmobile
| style="text-align:left;" | '''GoodWood''' (-4.44)
| style="text-align:right; color:#808080;" | Hyundai
| style="text-align:left;" | '''Climax''' (2.48)
|-
| style="text-align:right; color:#808080;" | Infinity
| style="text-align:left;" | '''Toothy69''' (-4.51)
| style="text-align:right; color:#808080;" | Porsche
| style="text-align:left;" | '''Zizek9000''' (3.06)
|-
| style="text-align:right; color:#808080;" | BMW
| style="text-align:left;" | '''Outhouse''' (-4.85)
| style="text-align:right; color:#808080;" | Lexus
| style="text-align:left;" | '''3x3Cutrix''' (3.22)
|-
| style="text-align:right; color:#808080;" | Volkswagen
| style="text-align:left;" | '''Woodpony 7OH7''' (-5.70)
| style="text-align:right; color:#808080;" | Acura
| style="text-align:left;" | '''PizzaJazz''' (3.56)
|-
| style="text-align:right; color:#808080;" | Chrysler
| style="text-align:left;" | '''Uh Iono''' (-5.65)
| style="text-align:right; color:#808080;" | Ford
| style="text-align:left;" | '''SixAxle''' 4x4 (3.95)
|-
| style="text-align:right; color:#808080;" | Nissan
| style="text-align:left;" | '''Doody''' (-5.84)
| style="text-align:right; color:#808080;" | Toyota
| style="text-align:left;" | '''Cervixxx''' (4.85)
|}

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Charts]]
[[Category:Language]]
[[Category:Math]]
[[Category:Sex]]

1571: Car Model Names

2015-09-01T01:12:28Z

141.101.99.108: /* Scores */

{{comic
| number = 1571
| date = August 31, 2015
| title = Car Model Names
| image = car_model_names.png
| titletext = CLIMAX is good, but SEXCLIMAX is even better.
}}

==Explanation==

In English, letters like X and Z are rarely used in the common vernacular. Marketers have found that names with these infrequently-appearing letters sell more products.

===Scores===
Scores for letters and numbers are presumably taken from their frequency in car models. [[Randall]] must have used a car-name database to create the scores. Randall uses positive numbers if a letter is more common in car models than in typical English (as X) which he then calls carlike. He used negative numbers if a letter's relative frequency in car models is lower than in typical English (as O) and he calls it English-like (more suitable for readable text). The letters F and B, with scores of 5 and -5, respectively, are about as common in English as in car models. With this nomenclature, the most English-like letter is Y because, while not the most common English letter, it is apparently extremely rare in car models. The most common letter in ordinary English is E.

There are 19 positive scores and 17 negative scores.

===Algorithm for the index===
Randall devised an index for car models which is the score average divided by 10.

;Example
We take 2Chainz and add the scores of its different numbers and letters: 6 +27 -44 -14 -21 -46 +83 = -9

Average is -9/7 = -1.29 and divided by 10 it's -0.129 or -0.13.

===Names to avoid===
*Honda '''2Chainz''' - {{w|2 Chainz}} is an American rapper
*Mitsubishi '''Fhqwhgads''' - A reference to a running joke on {{w|Homestar Runner}}. See http://www.hrwiki.org/wiki/Fhqwhgads
*Kia '''49andGothy''' - Gothy or gothic is a member of the {{w|goth subculture}}; most of its members are much younger than 49
*Chevrolet '''Niceguy''' - A reference to the idiom "nice guys finish last".
*Oldsmobile '''Goodwood''' - May be a reference to the {{w|Goodwood Festival of Speed}}
*Infiniti '''Toothy69'''
*BMW '''Outhouse''' - Loose standing toilet, or {{w|Outhouse}}.
*Volkswagen '''Woodpony 7oh7''' - Wood ponies are wooden constructions to give kids (and sometimes adults) the feeling of riding a horse, but don't actually move. 7oh7 is a way to pronounce 707, which could be a reference to the Boeing 707 passenger jet series.
*Chrysler '''Uh Iono''' - When pronounced, sounds roughly like someone slurring "Uh, I don't know" [http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=iono]
*Nissan '''Doody''' - May reference the unfortunately named {{w|Nissan Moco}}, which is Spanish for snot

===Potential Hits===
*Honda '''3Chainz''' - A play on 2Chainz in the previous section; according to the table the number 2 has a score of 6 and the number 3 has a higher score of 55; the index will go up by (55-6)/7/10=0.7.
*Subaru '''Andre3000''' - {{w|André 3000}} is an American rapper
*Suzuki '''Sexism''' - Akihiro Suzuki is a Tokyo city assemblyman who made sexist remarks in June 2014.
*Lincoln '''Marxism''' - {{w|Marxism}} is a form of communism. There are various essays noting its founder and {{w|Abraham Lincoln}} exchanged letters during the American civil war.
*Hyundai '''Climax''' - In this context, an {{w|orgasm}}. The title text finds an excuse to add another "x" with the portmanteau '''SexClimax'''.
*Porsche '''Zizek9000''' - A portmanteau referencing academic {{w|Slavoj Žižek}} and the {{w|Saab 9000}}
*Lexus '''3×3Cutrix''' - 3×3 is a play on 4×4; this car presumably has 3 wheels. "Executrix" is the female counterpart of "executor", one who administers a will.
*Acura '''PizzaJazz''' - The letter Z has a very high score, so using 4 of them in a fairly short name makes this a potential hit.
*Ford '''SixAxle 4×4''' - A contradictory name, as the 4×4 refers to a vehicle that has all four wheels connected to the drivetrain, which would only use two axles. May also be a reference to the Sony PlayStation's {{w|Sixaxis controller}}.
*Toyota '''Cervixxx''' - A portmanteau of {{w|cervix}} and XXX rating used by pornographic industry to make titles seem more extreme (see {{w|X rating}}). It being the highest scoring item on the list may be an attempt to show that {{w|sex sells}}.

Note that Randall gives the symbol × the value of 126, which means he equates it with the letter x.
:index(3×3CutrixNote) = (+55 + score(×) +55 +27 -68 -18 +8 -21 +126)/9/10 = 3.22. This means that the score of the symbol × is 90×3.22 - 164 = 125.8

===Title text===

==Transcript==
:{| style="text-align:center; border:0px; width:63%;"
| '''Certain letters and numbers are used disproportionately often in car models compared to regular text.'''
|-
| (see:"Rev-4 cr-x x3 G6 Maxx")
|}

:{| style="text-align:center; border:1pt black solid;"
| colspan="37" | '''Letter and number scores based on relative frequency in car model names'''
|-
| style="text-align:left;" | Carlike
|| 60
||
|| 6
|| 55
|| 35
|| 74
|| 6
||
||
||
||
||
|| 27
||
||
|| 5
|| 27
||
||
|| 64
|| 32
|| 12
|| 19
||
||
||
|| 40
|| 8
|| 15
||
||
|| 41
||
|| 126
||
|| 83
|-
||
|| '''0'''
|| '''1'''
|| '''2'''
|| '''3'''
|| '''4'''
|| '''5'''
|| '''6'''
|| '''7'''
|| '''8'''
|| '''9'''
|| '''A'''
|| '''B'''
|| '''C'''
|| '''D'''
|| '''E'''
|| '''F'''
|| '''G'''
|| '''H'''
|| '''I'''
|| '''J'''
|| '''K'''
|| '''L'''
|| '''M'''
|| '''N'''
|| '''O'''
|| '''P'''
|| '''Q'''
|| '''R'''
|| '''S'''
|| '''T'''
|| '''U'''
|| '''V'''
|| '''W'''
|| '''X'''
|| '''Y'''
|| '''Z'''
|-
| style="text-align:left;" | English-like
||
|| -74
||
||
||
||
||
|| -58
|| -67
|| -37
|| -14
|| -5
||
|| -21
|| -45
||
||
|| -44
|| -21
||
||
||
||
|| -46
|| -80
|| -27
||
||
||
|| -18
|| -68
||
|| -20
||
|| -90
||
|}

:{| style="text-align:center; border:0px; width:63%;"
| '''Based on these scores, here are a few suggestions for car companies:'''
|-
| (with average letter scores)
|}

:{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center; border:1pt black solid; width:63%;"
| colspan="2" | '''Names to avoid'''
| colspan="2" | '''Potential hits'''
|-
| style="text-align:right; width:25%; color:#808080;" | Honda
| style="text-align:left;" | '''2Chainz''' (-0.13)
| style="text-align:right; width:25%; color:#808080;" | Honda
| style="text-align:left;" | '''3Chainz''' (0.57)
|-
| style="text-align:right; color:#808080;" | Mitsubishi
| style="text-align:left;" | '''Fhqwhgads''' (-0.62)
| style="text-align:right; color:#808080;" | Subaru
| style="text-align:left;" | '''Andre3000''' (1.30)
|-
| style="text-align:right; color:#808080;" | Kia
| style="text-align:left;" | '''49AndGothy''' (-2.96)
| style="text-align:right; color:#808080;" | Suzuki
| style="text-align:left;" | '''Sexism''' (1.82)
|-
| style="text-align:right; color:#808080;" | Chevrolet
| style="text-align:left;" | '''Niceguy''' (-3.09)
| style="text-align:right; color:#808080;" | Lincoln
| style="text-align:left;" | '''Marxism''' (2.17)
|-
| style="text-align:right; color:#808080;" | Oldsmobile
| style="text-align:left;" | '''GoodWood''' (-4.44)
| style="text-align:right; color:#808080;" | Hyundai
| style="text-align:left;" | '''Climax''' (2.48)
|-
| style="text-align:right; color:#808080;" | Infinity
| style="text-align:left;" | '''Toothy69''' (-4.51)
| style="text-align:right; color:#808080;" | Porsche
| style="text-align:left;" | '''Zizek9000''' (3.06)
|-
| style="text-align:right; color:#808080;" | BMW
| style="text-align:left;" | '''Outhouse''' (-4.85)
| style="text-align:right; color:#808080;" | Lexus
| style="text-align:left;" | '''3x3Cutrix''' (3.22)
|-
| style="text-align:right; color:#808080;" | Volkswagen
| style="text-align:left;" | '''Woodpony 7OH7''' (-5.70)
| style="text-align:right; color:#808080;" | Acura
| style="text-align:left;" | '''PizzaJazz''' (3.56)
|-
| style="text-align:right; color:#808080;" | Chrysler
| style="text-align:left;" | '''Uh Iono''' (-5.65)
| style="text-align:right; color:#808080;" | Ford
| style="text-align:left;" | '''SixAxle''' 4x4 (3.95)
|-
| style="text-align:right; color:#808080;" | Nissan
| style="text-align:left;" | '''Doody''' (-5.84)
| style="text-align:right; color:#808080;" | Toyota
| style="text-align:left;" | '''Cervixxx''' (4.85)
|}

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Charts]]
[[Category:Language]]
[[Category:Math]]
[[Category:Sex]]

Talk:1569: Magic Tree

2015-08-26T17:00:11Z

141.101.99.108: /* It's not Batesian mimicry */

Explanation may benefit from adding that cell phone tower appearance has evolved to be more treelike.
[[http://www.linkedin.com/in/Comet Comet]] 05:07, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

I know XKCD isn't really heavy on proportions, but the heads look slightly bigger in all but the last panel. It kinda makes both characters look like children initially. -Pennpenn [[Special:Contributions/108.162.250.162|108.162.250.162]] 07:02, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Could the "giants in yellow helmets" be a reference to Clash of Clans? [[User:Aruta|Aruta]] ([[User talk:Aruta|talk]]) 10:13, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
:I don't think so. [[User:Sobsz|Sobsz]] ([[User talk:Sobsz|talk]]) 10:30, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

== It's not Batesian mimicry ==

Evolutionary biologist here: '''it's not Batesian mimicry. It's mimesis.'''

You're archetypal mimesis is a stick insect looking like a twig, because predators don't care about twigs. It's the same thing here: trees looking like telegraph poles, because people don't care about telegraph poles.

It has nothing to do with the telegraph pole's defences (what would that mean?). Without defences, you can't have Batesian mimicry. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.176|141.101.98.176]] 11:29, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

:I think that cell towers do have defenses. When you wound them, they start emiting utility workers, policemans and lawyers. (I'm sure the operator will get message if BTS is disconnected.) -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 12:49, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

I don't if it is relevant but there is an old MSX game called magical tree that displayed the tree in side view in a very similar way. http://www.mobygames.com/game/msx/magical-tree ZeroA4

The third paragraph needs amending. "...attempt to mimic cellphone towers" implies conscious evolution, and the reference to the tower's "defenses" is a relic of the Batesian mimicry reference. What I'm guessing is happening (I'm not an evolutionary biologist) is that trees with a slightly more towerlike appearance are slightly less likely to be cut down by predatory Beret Guys, and will survive to pass similar traits onto their offspring, and over millions of years certain lineages of celltowertrees will increasingly resemble treecelltowers built by humans in turn to resemble them. The claim that this is a "standard textbook example of convergent evolution" is tongue-in-cheek more than facetious; a real example of it ought to be used rather than the Terry Pratchett reference, which seems to illustrate conscious evolution.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.108|141.101.99.108]] 17:00, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

1429: Data

2014-10-05T21:02:32Z

141.101.99.108: /* Explanation */ clearer (i hope) explanation about non-silent h's.

{{comic
| number = 1429
| date = October 3, 2014
| title = Data
| image = data.png
| titletext = If you want to have more fun at the expense of language pedants, try developing an hypercorrection habit.
}}

==Explanation==

"Kirk vs. Picard" is a debate that many ''{{w|Star Trek}}'' fans engage in — specifically which was a better captain of the {{w|Starship Enterprise|starship ''Enterprise''}} on the TV show. Captain {{w|James T. Kirk}} and {{w|Jean-Luc Picard}} each were captains of the ship in different periods (Kirk was captain of USS ''Enterprise'' (NCC-1701) in {{w|Star Trek: The Original Series|The Original Series}}, while Picard was captain of USS ''Enterprise''-D (NCC-1701-D) in ''{{w|Star Trek: The Next Generation|The Next Generation}}''), but fans argue over who was the "best". Most third-place candidates are pretty distant, resulting in a more multi-faceted debate. Cueball seems to be looking at results of polling for this ''third'' most popular character.

The humor in this comic stems from the fact that the Latin word ''data'' is a plural form of the word ''datum.'' Due to very few uses for the singular form and general lack of knowledge of Latin among modern population, many people do not think about it and assume ''data'' to be singular. Under the overwhelming dominance of this misconception, referring to ''data'' as singular is becoming increasingly (but not universally) accepted as grammatically correct — the ''Wall Street Journal'', for instance, recently announced that it is moving away from saying "data are," while the ''New York Times''' manual of style allows for both variants depending on usage scenario, and ''USA Today'' is consistently using ''data'' as a plural ("data are"). Naturally, the purists insist on the form that is correct from the Latin grammar point of view and see "data is" as an example of a subject-verb agreement error. This type of error is present in the beginning of the sentence that Cueball is citing ("According to this polling data," while grammatically correct variant would be "According to these polling data").

The second error in the same sentence is due to the fact that {{w|Data (Star Trek)|Data}} is a character from ''Star Trek: The Next Generation.'' Since it is a character's name, when used to refer to the character, "Data" should be treated as singular.

By reversing the verb agreement in both cases, Cueball is basically going out of his way to annoy grammatically obsessed people.

The title text suggests the mocking of language pedants/amateur {{w|Grammar Nazi|grammar Nazis}} by {{w|Hypercorrection|hypercorrecting}} one's use of language. The sentence itself is an example of this:
* The general rule is that words starting with a consonant should be preceded by ''a,'' while words starting with a vowel should be preceded by ''an.'' However,
* The letter ''h'' is a special case, since in words like ''honor'' (/ˈɒnəɹ/) and ''hour'' (/ˈaʊəɹ/) the ''h'' is silent so the words actually start with a vowel sound, thus leading to the use of ''an.'' But beyond this,
* There is a [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=3328463#post3328463 specific longstanding controversy] over whether to use ''a'' or ''an'' with words that start with a non-silent ''h'' sound followed by an unstressed vowel, such as ''historical'' and arguably ''hypercorrection'' in the title text. In many accents of English, when these words take the indefinite article, the article ''an'' is used and the ''h'' becomes silent. In others, the article ''a'' is used and the ''h'' remains pronounced.

This comic complements two of the [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Category:My_Hobby My Hobbies] comics [[326: Effect an Effect]] (which discusses the trolling of amateur grammar Nazis) and [[1405: Meteor]] (which mocks pedantry). This comic could also just as well have been labelled as one of [[Randall|Randall's]] Hobbies.

This comic also appears to be an example of {{w|Self-irony|self-irony}} as the author himself has previously exhibited certain inclination to insist on grammatically strict mode of usage of words loaned from Latin. One such example is the fact that [http://fora.xkcd.com/ xkcd's online discussion forums] are called ''fora'' (which is a correct plural nominative form of ''forum'' in Latin).

==Transcript==
:[Cueball reading off a smart phone to someone off the panel]
:Cueball: According to this polling data, after Kirk and Picard, the most popular Star Trek character are Data.
:Off-panel character: Augh!
:Annoy grammar pedants on all sides by making "data" singular except when referring to the android.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Language]]