explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

3075: Anachronym Challenge

2025-04-11T22:59:52Z

162.158.158.249: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 3075
| date = April 11, 2025
| title = Anachronym Challenge
| image = anachronym_challenge_2x.png
| imagesize = 265x404px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = I have to pay with paper money.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|The table is incomplete.}}

[[Cueball]] is reading from a shopping list while shopping for groceries. The items on the list are all [https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/anachronym anachronyms]. The names of the items indicate their material, but they are no longer made from that material.

{| class="wikitable sortable" style="margin-left:0px"
|-
! Item !! Actually made with !! What the name says !! Explanation
|-
| {{w|Aluminium foil| Tin foil}} || Aluminum || {{w|Tin}} || Formerly "tin foil" was made of the metal tin, but aluminum supplanted tin in the mid 20th century, as aluminum is cheaper and more durable.
|-
| [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sponge_(tool) Sponges]|| Polyester, polyurethane || Marine invertebrates in the phylum Porifera, aka {{w|sea sponges}}. || An item commonly used in the kitchen to soak up water.
|-
| {{w|Cutlery | Silverware}} || Stainless steel || {{w|Silver}} || Common eating devices. Also often made of paper or plastic. Like tin foil, cutlery is traditionally made with sterling silver, but has been replaced by the cheaper stainless steel and now plastic.
|-
| {{w|Linens}} || Cotton, hemp, polyester || {{w|Flax}} || Commonly in the form of sheets and blankets.
|-
| {{w|Clothes iron | Clothes iron}} || Aluminum, stainless steel & plastics || {{w|Iron}} || Used as a tool to remove wrinkles in clothing by heating it up.
|-
| {{w|Ironing board | Ironing board}} || Metal, fabric cover || Wooden board || Flat surface for ironing clothes.
|-
| {{w|Corrective_lens#Reading_glasses|Reading glasses}} || Optical plastics || {{w|Glass}} || Used to assist farsighted people with focusing on things up close. Also traditionally made with glass, but nowadays made with CR-39 plastic due to glass's danger of shattering and higher weight.
|-
| {{w|Iron (golf)#Short irons|9 iron}} || Cast {{w|stainless steel}}, {{w|carbon steel}} || Iron || A type of golf club.
|-
| {{w|Wood (golf)| 3 wood}} || Titanium, carbon fiber || Wood || A type of golf club.
|-
| {{w|Sidewalk chalk | Sidewalk chalk}} || Calcium sulfate ({{w|gypsum}}) || {{w|Calcite}} chalk || Used for making marks on pavement or rocks. (e.g., for entertainment, for temporary signs or indicators).
|-
| {{w|Rubber duck | Rubber duck}} || Vinyl plastics || {{w|Rubber}} || A children's bath toy.
|-
| {{w|Paper money | Paper money}} (title text) || Cotton, linen fibers (U.S. note), polypropylene, digital transfers || Paper || Money can be exchanged for goods and services.
|}

Many of the objects listed on Cueball's shopping list can still be made with the materials that they are named after. Silverware can be made of sterling silver, especially in the cutlery of high-end establishments{{fact}}, but unlike steel requires continued polishing to retain its finish. Cleaning sponges made of sea sponges are expensive, but can be bought{{fact}}. Linens made from flax are still common{{fact}}. {{acn}} Some wood clubs are still made from wood, specifically {{w|persimmon}}. {{w|Banknotes of the Japanese yen}} are [https://www.npb.go.jp/en/products/intro/tokutyou.html still made] from wood pulp from ''E. chrysantha'' and abaca pulp. Most of the traditional items can be found in antique sales at least occasionally, and some people still use them.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[Cueball is looking at a phone in his hand while holding his other hand on the handle of a shopping cart. Above the shopping cart, an underlined header and a bullet list are shown:]
:<u>Shopping List</u>
:* Tin Foil
:* Sponges
:* Silverware
:* Linens
:* Iron & Ironing Board
:* Reading Glasses
:* 9 Iron and 3 Wood
:* Sidewalk Chalk
:* Rubber Duck

:[Caption below the panel:]
:I'm trying to do a shopping trip where I only buy stuff that's no longer made from the material it's named after.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Language]]

2902: Ice Core

2024-03-05T04:11:09Z

162.158.158.249:

{{comic
| number = 2902
| date = March 4, 2024
| title = Ice Core
| image = ice_core_2x.png
| imagesize = 318x333px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = If you find an ash deposition layer from a year in which an eruption destroyed an island that had Camellia sinensis growing on it, you can make a Gone Island Ice_τ.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a PALEOCLIMATOLOGIST CELEBRATING THEIR 21st BIRTHDAY - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
Some people may like to taste a wine dated to the year they were born, or perhaps are subject to it as a family tradition, typically more usual for a milestone age than because (unless they were particularly fortunate) it happens to be as much a 'good year' for the wine(s) they favor as it was for their life (having the ability to be exactingly picky about their choice of vintage). It may be such that, beyond their everyday preference for drink, a special occasion includes the opportunity to partake in a wine that is the same age as themselves. This comic extends this practice into a joke that paleoclimatologists, who study the climate, use dated ice instead of dated wine, drilling into the ground to find the layer matching the birth year of the recipient, either to drink 'neat' (once sufficiently melted) or as the '{{w|Bartending terminology#On the rocks|on the rocks}}' part of another drink, perhaps a cocktail.

[[Megan]], a {{w|paleoclimatologist}}, decides to make a cocktail with the ice from the icesheets (present in the Arctic and Antarctic, for example). Normally, scientists would try to date the ice and then try to find the state of the climate when these icesheets formed. Here, Megan tries to find the ice layer corresponding to [[Knit Cap]]'s birth year with the intent of using the ice for the chosen drink. The caption asserts that this method of creating drinks is “traditional” for paleoclimatologists. She then asks if Knit Cap has the cocktail shaker that they presumably brought to the site ready. Cocktail shakers are used in the preparation of many mixed drinks, which often contain ice (usually sourced locally).{{Citation needed}}

The title text says that if they manage to find some ice with ash coming from an eruption which destroyed an island with {{w|Camellia sinensis}} growing on it, they'll be able to get a cocktail with tea infused in it. Camellia sinensis is generally used for making tea. Gone Island Ice_τ is a punning reference to the cocktail known in the United States as a {{w|Long Island iced tea}}. The use of tau for "tea" may be a reference to the IceCube Collaboration's "reported two candidate events for the final unobserved Standard Model cosmic messenger: astrophysical tau neutrinos". Who knew that the rapper and actor was also an astrophysics stud?

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[Knit Cap and Megan both wearing knit caps and scarves in a snowy environment taking a look at an ice drill. There is a helicopter on the ground in the background, with their footprints between them and the helicopter. Knit Cap is holding a small container between her hands while Megan is holding the middle of the drill.]
:Megan: Next, we'll identify the ice core layer matching your birth year. Do you have the shaker ready?

:[Caption below the panel:]
:Making the traditional paleoclimatologist cocktail

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Knit Cap]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Characters with hats]]
[[Category:Geology]]
[[Category:Food]]

Talk:2324: Old Days 2

2020-06-27T10:30:28Z

162.158.158.249:

I've gotta try that, see how the ice cream truck guy reacts. Wonder where I can find an ice cream truck though? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.71.16|172.69.71.16]] 23:42, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
: The above is me, wasn't logged in, would I get in trouble for fixing the signature? [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 23:44, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
(@Mikemk, I recon you sorted it by adding what you did. If you'd have just changed things, probably no crime if you explained it in the edit Summary. But I'm just an IP Address, so no authority.) Anyway. The bit about a phone-call stopping all electronic business is obviously rooted in dial-up needing exclusive use of a POTS line, something that only went out with broadband piggy-backing alongside voice-calls, the respective carrier-signals now microfiltered at each end of the house-to-exchange copper cabling to let them coexist over the same circuit without blocking/overwhelming each other. Though, in this comic, it's hyperbole, overly fuzzy memory, leg-pulling and/or an alternate-history being described. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.130|141.101.98.130]] 02:06, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
::I would just have deleted the auto signature and put in the correct after login in. Great you signed it correctly. As there is already a discussion opn this I will not correct it. Had no one answered you I would have just put your signature where the special contribution signature is and deleted your second line... ;-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 17:24, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

In the early days (of the ARPAnet) there was actually something that today would be classed as a "cloud service" (before the term was invented) although limited. It was a computer (in Cambridge, MA) funded by ARPA with massive amounts of storage and anybody on the ARPAnet could use it for storage (primary access was through FTP). So, cloud storage but not cloud computing. If you wanted to do something with the data you had to copy the whole file to your local disk, edit it there, and then send it back. The actual bits were stored on magnetic tape and there was an elaborate X/Y mechanism to select a tape and mount it on a tape drive, and later return it to its cubby. [[User:MAP|MAP]] ([[User talk:MAP|talk]]) 02:38, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

"State landline" is reminiscent of the old sailing joke where you'd ask a n00b to bring you 100 feet of shoreline. -- brad

Hm, I'd think that "state landline" is a pun on "state line". [[User:Gvanrossum|Gvanrossum]] ([[User talk:Gvanrossum|talk]]) 04:19, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

Also, while mainframes didn't exactly knit sweaters when they ran your code, they *did* produce physical artifacts -- reams of line printer paper. [[User:Gvanrossum|Gvanrossum]] ([[User talk:Gvanrossum|talk]]) 04:21, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
:Kniting a sweater out of all teletyp tapes (5 holes width could work) that where common in releationship to mainframe landline interfaces 09:08, 26 June 2020 (UTC)Knitter

"It's not even likely that any punch patterns used in computer coding would be interpretable as valid sweater-creating instructions." Is anyone up to the challenge? [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 05:04, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
: I actually very much doubt that it couldn't be interpreted. The loom will probably work just fine. It's not like those cards started with a header our CRC. It will probably not produce a meaningful pattern, but it will produce something. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.249|162.158.158.249]] 10:30, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Wouldn't a loom produce woven textiles rather than knit garments like sweaters? Seems like an additional layer of tall tales. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.189.179|172.68.189.179]] 06:46, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

In fact, you can buy computer-programmable knitting machines - even consumer models have been around for quite a while. One short article: https://www.futurity.org/knitting-machines-software-1719232/ [[User:Cellocgw|Cellocgw]] ([[User talk:Cellocgw|talk]]) 14:08, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

It seems to me that the comic is having fun with false etymologies. There is especially one article that 'explains' a lot of idiom (in the sense of making up a fanciful story), which has been debunked by Snopes
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/life-in-the-1500s/ and the comics seems to allude to a similar situation in computer science, which is now old enough that early days are shrouded in a bit of mist out of which selective trivia is remembered (punch cards had something to do with looms) and then put together into a semi-coherent story that no longer reflects reality. (With part of the joke being that many people here will actually still know or even remember what it was really like in the 'early years', but the fewer those become, the more likely it will be that made-up 'origin stories' become accepted as true.

[[Special:Contributions/141.101.69.33|141.101.69.33]] 06:54, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

Is there a pun in the title text, regarding double meaning of driver? [[Special:Contributions/172.68.226.26|172.68.226.26]] 07:59, 25 June 2020 (UTC) Eddy

The explanation about landlines needs to be reviewed. Landlines are still a thing, people are still using them, they're not a "stone age" technology.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.130|141.101.98.130]] 14:35, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
:I disagree. The explanation does not claim landlines are a stone age technology. It instead says that Cueball, in this context, may associate them with an imagined stone age technology. In the same vein, it is the youngster Cueball who may believe that nobody today uses landlines for anything at all. [[User:JohnB|JohnB]] ([[User talk:JohnB|talk]]) 21:22, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

This comic is why we have children and encourage them to go into the same line of work as us: so we can tell them stories of the "good old days." My wife wants nothing to do with my stories of computers in the 70s and 80s, but my son - now also a developer like me - actually listens. [[User:Gbisaga|Gbisaga]] ([[User talk:Gbisaga|talk]]) 16:13, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

"Also it is unknown how it should know in which repo to create a pull request and whom to contact about it." I assumed it was akin to those USB dead drops. You give the disk to an ice cream man and hope that there is something interesting in the repo. Also the thrill is more in being one of the few insiders who know how to access it, not necessarily the value of the contents themselves.[[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.131|173.245.54.131]] 19:25, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
:Removed - presumably the contents of the floppy disk would tell the truck driver which repo and whom to contact. Just as the requests you send over a network do now. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.28|108.162.245.28]] 00:41, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

: Git is a version control system, which employs and manages a centralized copy of a coding project to prevent and resolve conflicts from multiple people editing the project at once.
No. Git itself has no concept of "centralized copy". It is 100% distributed. Human developers often choose one of the copy and call it "main", "master", or whatever. But that’s only a convention humans can agree on when using this tool. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.69.91|141.101.69.91]] 21:30, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
:It might be notable that Git is while not first definitely version control system which popularized decentralized distributed version control systems. In old days, version control systems were centralized, with master copy on single server and developers fetching the code from it and then committing their changes back. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 00:21, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

The circulating mag tape is very reminiscent of quotations such as this.

"Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway."
— Andrew S. Tanenbaum

Related: {{w|Sneakernet}} and {{w|Delay-tolerant networking}}. In areas that are not served by communication lines/wireless communication, vehicles running on a regular route have been used as basis for network communications. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.28|108.162.245.28]] 00:41, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

"And it's not likely that any punch patterns used in computer coding would be interpretable as a suitable pattern for a sweater." - Is that a CHALLENGE? [[Special:Contributions/172.68.50.50|172.68.50.50]] 08:46, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
: Sounds like it would make an interesting esolang. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.63.125|172.69.63.125]] 13:45, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Talk:2319: Large Number Formats

2020-06-17T12:26:48Z

162.158.158.249: format

Wouldn't Lincoln be:
Two score and nine score and six score and fourteen score and seven score and one score and eighteen score and two score and three score score and four? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.155.194|162.158.155.194]] 11:25, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

: Or rather: Two score score score score score score score score score score and nine score score score score score score score score score and six score score score score score score score score and fourteen score score score score score score score and seven score score score score score score and one score score score score score and eighteen score score score score and two score score score and three score score and four. [[User:Tracy Hall|Tracy Hall]] ([[User talk:Tracy Hall|talk]]) 06:18, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

:: What format did you use? Mine was ((((((((2*20+9)*20+6)*20+14)*20+7)*20+1)*20+18)*20+2)*20+3)*20*20+4 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.249|162.158.158.249]] 12:26, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

I've added the way I'm familiar with (Polish) to the "normal person in Europe outside of UK" caveat, but I think this still might be over-generalization to say that all Europe outside UK uses "." separator; I've actually never seen it used, but I've seen "'" used, even though I have no connection whatsoever with Switzerland. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.175|162.158.154.175]] 11:13, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

: Yes. We also use the single apostrophe as a thousands separator in Sweden. And in Excel we use the semicolon in formulas, since the comma is used for decimals.
[[User:Embridioum|Embridioum]] ([[User talk:Embridioum|talk]]) 22:18, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

:: No!? Swedes commonly use blank as thousands separate, eg. 6 500 000. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.183.119|162.158.183.119]] 19:06, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

Would love an explanation of the scientist avoiding rounding one. Would make sense to me with 2.525997..., but as 2.5997... I'm at a loss! {{unsigned ip|198.41.238.106|22:19, 12 June 2020 (UTC)}}
: Truncating the number just before a digit less than 5 so that the final digit is not rounded up. (I do this all the time, and, I am a scientist.) {{unsigned ip|108.162.216.172|00:48, 13 June 2020‎ (UTC)}}
(The above was posted (anonymously?) seconds before I could get mine in, so here it is in the original format.)

This is probably completely irrelevant but it seems Randall made a small typo when trying to show a "Scientest trying to avoid rounding up."
I assume it should be 2.525997*10^13. It seems he left out a 5 and a 2 and I say such because whether he forgot the 52 or 25 is up for debate.

Relevant screenshot: [[https://i.imgur.com/NrvOivy.png]]

Also, if I'm just being completely daft and am missing something completely, please feel free to criticize me harshly and I'll go back to my little hideyhole. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.24|108.162.237.24]] 22:21, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

: In reality, a scientist would probably say 6.416*10^13 cm. (Although possible counterpoint, this comic is really about the ''number'' 25,259,974,097,204, not the distance 25,259,974,097,204 inches.) [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.207|172.69.33.207]] 22:47, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
:: Centimetres are not an SI unit. it would be 6.416*10^11 m [[Special:Contributions/172.68.255.14|172.68.255.14]] 01:51, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
::: Depends on field. It can easily be 35.67 light minutes. Or 2140 light seconds if you insist on SI units. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 22:11, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

I believe the "2.5997" was intentional, or at least I thought it was when reading it. At first I thought it was a typo, but Randall calls that number "Scientist ''trying'' to avoid rounding up" which makes me think Randall intentionally made that "mistake" as if the scientist had accidentally forgotten the first two digits (25) and used the remainder of the number (259974...), rounding it to "2.5997x10^13" [[User:Kirypto|Kirypto]] ([[User talk:Kirypto|talk]]) 23:03, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
: Randall fixed it! [[User:Gvanrossum|Gvanrossum]] ([[User talk:Gvanrossum|talk]]) 05:43, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
:: Looks like that was just a typo, Randall replaced it with a new version. [[User:Natg19|Natg19]] ([[User talk:Natg19|talk]]) 02:55, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

As a (not so?) old British person, I approve. Let the Trillions come around later, when it's ''worth'' increasing the prefix to "level 3". Don't waste them on the more petty numbers. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.155.122|162.158.155.122]] 23:13, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
:I'm also a not-so-old British person, and therefore use the short-scale as a matter of course. But, although I'm too young to ever have used the long scale, I regret its passing, for all that. On a visual level, if a million gives us a chunk of six zeroes, there's a simple elegance to the "bi-", "tri-", "quad-" (etc.) prefixes numerating two chunks, three chunks, four chunks, etc. From a less visual, more linguistically neat perspective, if you've got a million^2, a million^3, a million^4 and so on, then using "bi" to mean two, "tri" to mean three, "quad" to mean four makes sense...because that's what those things mean.[[User:Yorkshire Pudding|Yorkshire Pudding]] ([[User talk:Yorkshire Pudding|talk]]) 10:32, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

;"Engineering" notation omitted?
I find it somewhat strange that Randall doesn't offer '''25e12''' or any of those variants ('''25.259...*10^12'''). I feel like a lot of "non-normal" people would map billion to E12 instead of requiring a single digit to the left of the decimal point. shrug [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 23:09, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
: Honestly I thought "engineering" notation was a myth invented by HP's calculator division. But I'm personally offended that the programmers' notation 25_259_... was omitted. Maybe Randall still uses Python 2. :-) [[User:Gvanrossum|Gvanrossum]] ([[User talk:Gvanrossum|talk]]) 05:47, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
::Well, just because HP's calculator division invented something doesn't mean it's a myth. They do have the power to invent things and had the market penetration for their names to have power and influence the world; but for sure, having used HP calculators in high school affected how I thought about numbers in college. But I think anyone who works with SI prefixes on a regular basis and reports results using them will appreciate "engineering" notation given the direct correspondence. And, of course, it also corresponds to how "normal" people use write numbers in the millions/billions/trillions, as this comic shows…which was the point… [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 12:03, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
:::Engineering notation is what engineers use all the time to make the maths simpler (one quip is an engineer is a physicist with poor maths). Except for the 'everyday' centimetre and decimetre, SI unit names are all in 10^3 steps. [[User:RIIW - Ponder it|RIIW - Ponder it]] ([[User talk:RIIW - Ponder it|talk]]) 18:56, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

"What's an inch?" [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.119|162.158.62.119]] 23:18, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
: The imaginary nano-scale multiple of the speed of light times Planck's constant. Which, dimensionally, would seem to be kg.m³/s²? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.73|162.158.154.73]] 00:15, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

As an article pointed out to me the other day that seemed obvious after it was said it's a non-tariff trade barrier used as American protectionism that doesn't get tariffed back. {{unsigned ip|172.69.63.81|00:10, 13 June 2020 (UTC)}}

Can someone explain the set theory notation? {{unsigned ip|172.68.255.14|01:56, 13 June 2020 (UTC)}}
: You can use only sets to construct the natural numbers, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_number#Constructions_based_on_set_theory - {{unsigned ip|172.68.215.76|02:20, 13 June 2020 (UTC)}}

It seems nobody has pointed out that the power of 10 in the title text is really just the log(x) of the number, which is in fact very common in scientific contexts -> log(25,259,974,097,204) = 13.4024 [[User:Ianrbibtitlht|Ianrbibtitlht]] ([[User talk:Ianrbibtitlht|talk]]) 02:31, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

The alternative would be for him to write 10^13.402432900872993447734410070128 (Rounded up). Notation that produces a longer string of digits than the original number seems useless on all fronts but somehow even more fun. I like the current explanation, though. It was insightful, IMO. -B- [[Special:Contributions/162.158.106.126|162.158.106.126]] 17:14, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

We have kept the olden ways here in the north. Miljon (10^6), miljard (10^9), biljon (10^12), biljard (10^15). Also, "biljard" is the same word as the game of pool in Swedish.
[[User:Embridioum|Embridioum]] ([[User talk:Embridioum|talk]]) 07:17, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
:Another thing an Older British Person might argue about is Billiards, the cue-and-ball game. Often, among all the vaiations, it was the three-ball version (white and white-spot cueballs, for each player, and red ball as the common target) on either pocketted or non-pocketted tables (the former mostly as a sop to using an unmodified snooker table) or, explicitly, Bar Billiards with target holes and obstacle pegs (quite common as early coin-operated pay-to-play tables). Only by succumbing to the americanism was Pool (usually 15-ball, spots+stripes+8ball) ever called billiards. Well, ''I'' thought that was interesting... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.136|162.158.159.136]] 12:49, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
::"Why sure I'm a billiard player, certainly mighty proud to say, I'm always mighty proud to say it. I consider that the hours I spend with a cue in my hand are golden." -Harold Hill [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.60|108.162.216.60]] 14:34, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Also Italian uses the long scale for large numbers, and also in Italian the word for the game of pool coincides with 10^15. Albeit I have to say that I've never heard anyone use bilione and biliardo referring to numbers. We usually stop at miliardo, saying things like "un milione di miliardi" when we need to say those large numbers, or use the scientific notation. --[[Special:Contributions/172.68.198.106|172.68.198.106]] 09:04, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

While we're on different languages, how about this one: 1262998704860-vingt-quatre - French person. --[[User:IByte|IByte]] ([[User talk:IByte|talk]]) 11:11, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

:Russian uses the short scale, like million, billion, trillion, quadrillion, etc. But it calls a billion a milliard, and a thousand milliards is a trillion. Why? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.68.195|172.69.68.195]] 18:09, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
:: Sounds to me like Russia 'inherited' Milliards from its usage by trade partners at one point in time when that was a number people were starting to want to use seriously, but adopted the short-Trillion from a later time when (different) people were needing to discuss higher values and adopt terms for these into their own tongue. If you check the chequered history of what-means-what (before Short and Long scales were mad3 at least self-consistent among their adherents) you could reasonably blame/credit many different sources for each development. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.249|162.158.158.249]] 01:03, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

Why *that* number? OK, so it's a big number (well, maybe not compared to all the other numbers). One oddity is that the prime factors are:

2 2 7 11 82012902913

7 11? Subliminal advertising? If you turn the big prime upside-down calculator style, you get: eigzogzlos8

I'm surprised that 5 and 23 are missing. In fact, that's almost suspicious.
: I think you're overthinking this, or maybe you got nerdsniped. Randall probably just chose a large number with different digits and being a fan of space, this one worked for him. [[User:Bischoff|Bischoff]] ([[User talk:Bischoff|talk]]) 08:40, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

I thought in all or most of Europe the thousands separator was a space not a dot. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.238.4|162.158.238.4]] 03:09, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
: That's actually something interesting I learned from this explanation. I always assumed everyone either used commas (US and UK) or dots (pretty much the rest of at least Europe, never thought much about other continents in this regard) and grouped them in threes. Apparently I was very wrong. The Indian system of grouping digits looks a bit confusing to me, but apparently it corresponds well to their language. [[User:Bischoff|Bischoff]] ([[User talk:Bischoff|talk]]) 08:32, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

Please refrain from using new sections in the comment section! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 06:43, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
: What's so bad about them? At least in a comic like this one, where people are actually discussing/commenting on different aspects of the comic, I find sections very helpful to keep track of different conversations. [[User:Bischoff|Bischoff]] ([[User talk:Bischoff|talk]]) 08:22, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

Re: Software developer, the "power" operand varies wildly across programming languages, some do indeed use ^, some go for ** and some have to resort to something like a pow(x,y) function, but in the languages/dialects I use most the ** operator binds closer than (has order of precedence over) the * operator, so x*10**y would not be (10x)<sup>y</sup> as currently suggested in the Explanation. But ^ is the bitwise operator (lower precedence than *), so would do something even more 'interesting' to the result. Now, obviously, different codes for different coves and all - but I'm dredging my memory for all kinds of obscure scripting languages I've not used for years (what does COBOL do..? Forth is Reverse Polish. Lisp(is(more(Forward(Polish))))) not sure which one Randall is basing it on (if it's not just geek-sniping at its finest). [[Special:Contributions/141.101.107.234|141.101.107.234]] 10:47, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
: The link I provided for "every common programming language" which someone edited to say "most common programming languages" is a site that shows what some code snippets look like in some huge number of languages that includes all the common ones. That's why I said "every" for supporting the scientific notation with e for the exponent, it really is all of them. There is much more variation in the syntax for exponentiation, more using ** than ^ and quite a few only having a function to call instead of an operator symbol. However, every one that does use ^ for exponentiation would parse x*10^13 be x times the 13th power of 10. [[User:Bugstomper|Bugstomper]] ([[User talk:Bugstomper|talk]]) 06:25, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

Speaking as a set theorist, I'd also describe that number as "Pretty small, just slightly bigger than 1." [[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.73|162.158.154.73]] 11:44, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

No comment in the explanation about the fact that inches are a pretty inadequate unit to express astronomical distances in the first place?[[Special:Contributions/162.158.155.224|162.158.155.224]] 08:57, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
: I actually thought it funny that using ''inches'' in the first place is telling in itself a lot about who one is (most likely American, or at least from the Anglo-sphere).

The set theory bit is a bit too specific, and also not specific enough. This construction (the ''Von Neumann'' natural numbers) doesn't rely on details of the underlying set theory, so it will work just fine with theories other than the Zermelo-Fraenkel one. On the other hand, there exist other (less popular) constructions of the natural numbers using set theory, including one by Zermelo. [[User:Dfeuer|Dfeuer]] ([[User talk:Dfeuer|talk]]) 21:33, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

Talk:2319: Large Number Formats

2020-06-14T01:03:24Z

162.158.158.249: /* Old Sweden */

I've added the way I'm familiar with (Polish) to the "normal person in Europe outside of UK" caveat, but I think this still might be over-generalization to say that all Europe outside UK uses "." separator; I've actually never seen it used, but I've seen "'" used, even though I have no connection whatsoever with Switzerland. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.175|162.158.154.175]] 11:13, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

: Yes. We also use the single apostrophe as a thousands separator in Sweden. And in Excel we use the semicolon in formulas, since the comma is used for decimals.
[[User:Embridioum|Embridioum]] ([[User talk:Embridioum|talk]]) 22:18, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

== Scientist avoiding rounding ==

Would love an explanation of the scientist avoiding rounding one. Would make sense to me with 2.525997..., but as 2.5997... I'm at a loss! {{unsigned ip|198.41.238.106|22:19, 12 June 2020 (UTC)}}

: Truncating the number just before a digit less than 5 so that the final digit is not rounded up. (I do this all the time, and, I am a scientist.) {{unsigned ip|108.162.216.172|00:48, 13 June 2020‎ (UTC)}}

(The above was posted (anonymously?) seconds before I could get mine in, so here it is in the original format.)

This is probably completely irrelevant but it seems Randall made a small typo when trying to show a "Scientest trying to avoid rounding up."
I assume it should be 2.525997*10^13. It seems he left out a 5 and a 2 and I say such because whether he forgot the 52 or 25 is up for debate.

Relevant screenshot: [[https://i.imgur.com/NrvOivy.png]]

Also, if I'm just being completely daft and am missing something completely, please feel free to criticize me harshly and I'll go back to my little hideyhole. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.24|108.162.237.24]] 22:21, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

: In reality, a scientist would probably say 6.416*10^13 cm. (Although possible counterpoint, this comic is really about the ''number'' 25,259,974,097,204, not the distance 25,259,974,097,204 inches.) [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.207|172.69.33.207]] 22:47, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

:: Centimetres are not an SI unit. it would be 6.416*10^11 m [[Special:Contributions/172.68.255.14|172.68.255.14]] 01:51, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

::: Depends on field. It can easily be 35.67 light minutes. Or 2140 light seconds if you insist on SI units. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 22:11, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

I believe the "2.5997" was intentional, or at least I thought it was when reading it. At first I thought it was a typo, but Randall calls that number "Scientist ''trying'' to avoid rounding up" which makes me think Randall intentionally made that "mistake" as if the scientist had accidentally forgotten the first two digits (25) and used the remainder of the number (259974...), rounding it to "2.5997x10^13" [[User:Kirypto|Kirypto]] ([[User talk:Kirypto|talk]]) 23:03, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

: Randall fixed it! [[User:Gvanrossum|Gvanrossum]] ([[User talk:Gvanrossum|talk]]) 05:43, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

: Looks like that was just a typo, Randall replaced it with a new version. [[User:Natg19|Natg19]] ([[User talk:Natg19|talk]]) 02:55, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

As a (not so?) old British person, I approve. Let the Trillions come around later, when it's ''worth'' increasing the prefix to "level 3". Don't waste them on the more petty numbers. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.155.122|162.158.155.122]] 23:13, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
:I'm also a not-so-old British person, and therefore use the short-scale as a matter of course. But, although I'm too young to ever have used the long scale, I regret its passing, for all that. On a visual level, if a million gives us a chunk of six zeroes, there's a simple elegance to the "bi-", "tri-", "quad-" (etc.) prefixes numerating two chunks, three chunks, four chunks, etc. From a less visual, more linguistically neat perspective, if you've got a million^2, a million^3, a million^4 and so on, then using "bi" to mean two, "tri" to mean three, "quad" to mean four makes sense...because that's what those things mean.[[User:Yorkshire Pudding|Yorkshire Pudding]] ([[User talk:Yorkshire Pudding|talk]]) 10:32, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

== "Engineering" notation omitted? ==

I find it somewhat strange that Randall doesn't offer '''25e12''' or any of those variants ('''25.259...*10^12'''). I feel like a lot of "non-normal" people would map billion to E12 instead of requiring a single digit to the left of the decimal point. shrug [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 23:09, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

: Honestly I thought "engineering" notation was a myth invented by HP's calculator division. But I'm personally offended that the programmers' notation 25_259_... was omitted. Maybe Randall still uses Python 2. :-) [[User:Gvanrossum|Gvanrossum]] ([[User talk:Gvanrossum|talk]]) 05:47, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

::Well, just because HP's calculator division invented something doesn't mean it's a myth. They do have the power to invent things and had the market penetration for their names to have power and influence the world; but for sure, having used HP calculators in high school affected how I thought about numbers in college. But I think anyone who works with SI prefixes on a regular basis and reports results using them will appreciate "engineering" notation given the direct correspondence. And, of course, it also corresponds to how "normal" people use write numbers in the millions/billions/trillions, as this comic shows…which was the point… [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 12:03, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

==Actual scientist: ==

"What's an inch?" [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.119|162.158.62.119]] 23:18, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

: The imaginary nano-scale multiple of the speed of light times Planck's constant. Which, dimensionally, would seem to be kg.m³/s²? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.73|162.158.154.73]] 00:15, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

As an article pointed out to me the other day that seemed obvious after it was said it's a non-tariff trade barrier used as American protectionism that doesn't get tariffed back. {{unsigned ip|172.69.63.81|00:10, 13 June 2020 (UTC)}}

== Can someone explain the set theory notation? ==

Can someone explain the set theory notation? {{unsigned ip|172.68.255.14|01:56, 13 June 2020 (UTC)}}

: You can use only sets to construct the natural numbers, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_number#Constructions_based_on_set_theory - {{unsigned ip|172.68.215.76|02:20, 13 June 2020 (UTC)}}

==Title Text 10^13.4024==

It seems nobody has pointed out that the power of 10 in the title text is really just the log(x) of the number, which is in fact very common in scientific contexts -> log(25,259,974,097,204) = 13.4024 [[User:Ianrbibtitlht|Ianrbibtitlht]] ([[User talk:Ianrbibtitlht|talk]]) 02:31, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

The alternative would be for him to write 10^13.402432900872993447734410070128 (Rounded up). Notation that produces a longer string of digits than the original number seems useless on all fronts but somehow even more fun. I like the current explanation, though. It was insightful, IMO. -B- [[Special:Contributions/162.158.106.126|162.158.106.126]] 17:14, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

== Old Sweden ==
We have kept the olden ways here in the north. Miljon (10^6), miljard (10^9), biljon (10^12), biljard (10^15). Also, "biljard" is the same word as the game of pool in Swedish.
[[User:Embridioum|Embridioum]] ([[User talk:Embridioum|talk]]) 07:17, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
:Another thing an Older British Person might argue about is Billiards, the cue-and-ball game. Often, among all the vaiations, it was the three-ball version (white and white-spot cueballs, for each player, and red ball as the common target) on either pocketted or non-pocketted tables (the former mostly as a sop to using an unmodified snooker table) or, explicitly, Bar Billiards with target holes and obstacle pegs (quite common as early coin-operated pay-to-play tables). Only by succumbing to the americanism was Pool (usually 15-ball, spots+stripes+8ball) ever called billiards. Well, ''I'' thought that was interesting... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.136|162.158.159.136]] 12:49, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
::"Why sure I'm a billiard player, certainly mighty proud to say, I'm always mighty proud to say it. I consider that the hours I spend with a cue in my hand are golden." -Harold Hill [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.60|108.162.216.60]] 14:34, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Also Italian uses the long scale for large numbers, and also in Italian the word for the game of pool coincides with 10^15. Albeit I have to say that I've never heard anyone use bilione and biliardo referring to numbers. We usually stop at miliardo, saying things like "un milione di miliardi" when we need to say those large numbers, or use the scientific notation. --[[Special:Contributions/172.68.198.106|172.68.198.106]] 09:04, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

While we're on different languages, how about this one: 1262998704860-vingt-quatre - French person. --[[User:IByte|IByte]] ([[User talk:IByte|talk]]) 11:11, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

:Russian uses the short scale, like million, billion, trillion, quadrillion, etc. But it calls a billion a milliard, and a thousand milliards is a trillion. Why? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.68.195|172.69.68.195]] 18:09, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
:: Sounds to me like Russia 'inherited' Milliards from its usage by trade partners at one point in time when that was a number people were starting to want to use seriously, but adopted the short-Trillion from a later time when (different) people were needing to discuss higher values and adopt terms for these into their own tongue. If you check the chequered history of what-means-what (before Short and Long scales were mad3 at least self-consistent amongst their adherents) you could reasonably blame/credit many different sources for each development. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.249|162.158.158.249]] 01:03, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

== Why *that* number? ==
OK, so it's a big number (well, maybe not compared to all the other numbers). One oddity is that the prime factors are:

2 2 7 11 82012902913

7 11? Subliminal advertising? If you turn the big prime upside-down calculator style, you get: eigzogzlos8

I'm surprised that 5 and 23 are missing. In fact, that's almost suspicious.