explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

3011: Europa Clipper

2024-11-14T12:35:58Z

162.158.186.196: /* Explanation */ date

{{comic
| number = 3011
| date = November 13, 2024
| title = Europa Clipper
| image = europa_clipper_2x.png
| imagesize = 333x356px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = They had BETTER make this a sample return mission.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a JOVIAN DESSERT. Please consider deleting this tag too soon, but refrain from doing so.}}
[[File:Animation of Europa Clipper trajectory around Jupiter.gif|thumb|right|The ''Europa Clipper's'' projected course around {{w|Jupiter}}, represented as the stationary green dot. In gold is Jupiter's moon {{w|Callisto (moon)|Callisto}}, in cyan is the moon {{w|Europa (moon)|Europa}} — the primary target of the spacecraft's study — and in orange-red is the innermost of Jupiter's four {{w|Galilean moons|"Galilean"}} moons, {{w|Io (moon)|Io}}. The spacecraft's track is shown in magenta. Jupiter's largest moon {{w|Ganymede (moon)|Ganymede}} and its second largest moon {{w|Titan (moon)|Titan}} are not shown, but their gravitational pull affects the ''Clipper's'' trajectory. A mission goal is to achieve a 6:1 {{w|orbital resonance}} with Europa by September 2034.[https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Martin-Ozimek/publication/383115312_AAS_24-433_Europa_Clipper_Mission_Analysis_Pump_Down_Trajectory_Design/links/66bcd845311cbb094938dbd6/AAS-24-433-Europa-Clipper-Mission-Analysis-Pump-Down-Trajectory-Design.pdf] ]]

The ''{{w|Europa Clipper}}'' space probe was launched from the Kennedy Space Center in Florida, USA, on 14 October 2024. It is expected to arrive at Jupiter and begin exploration of Jupiter's moons, particularly {{w|Europa (moon)|Europa}}, in 2030.

Europa is an icy moon. Water ice covers its surface. Beneath the ice, there is expected to be liquid water, which may contain living microbes. To sample this liquid, its crust (water ice) would need to be broken.

In the comic, the surface ice is likened to the caramel crust on the dessert ''{{w|crème brûlée}}''. To eat this dessert, the crust is broken with a spoon. The dessert was invented in France{{acn}}, which is, of course, part of Europe. Having conflated Europa with Europe, the makers of the probe expect to encounter crème brûlée, and have equipped it with a spoon for the purpose of collecting samples. No such spoon is present on the actual spacecraft{{cn}}, whose trajectory is designed to ''avoid'' contacting Europa so as to prevent {{w|Planetary protection|contamination of any life there}} by microorganisms on the spacecraft.

The title text expands on the main joke by stating that the spacecraft "had BETTER" return samples of the dessert/water ocean to Earth, presumably because Randall is keen to taste the samples. (Although crème brûlée is often served with fruit, it is not mentioned whether Randall expects the sample to be served with {{w|Jupiter Icy Moons Explorer|Juice}}.) Desirable as this might be (for non-gustatory reasons, as the taste of Europa's water ocean would likely be a surprise to a person expecting a custardy flavor), it is impractical.

This may also be a reference to the Cassini-Huygens lander, which, shortly after landing on the surface of Saturn's moon Titan, detected a surface that was [https://www.sciencenews.org/article/world-unveiled-cr%C3%A8me-br%C3%BBl%C3%A9e-titan described] as having a creme brulee consistency.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[A space probe with two rectangular solar panels, a circular dish of the front, and a very large spoon extending beneath, longer than the span of both solar panels]

:[Below the panel:]
:Good news: NASA's '''''Europa Clipper''''' is en route to Europa and has successfully deployed its crème brûlée spoon.

==Trivia==
The Clipper spacecraft was at one point to be developed alongside a lander, which was later dropped from being part of the same (or very closely partnered) mission. The latest version of the {{w|Europa Lander}} proposal is far behind the Clipper in implementation, not yet even being guaranteed funding.

Any actual sample return mission is currently far into the future of {{w|Ocean Worlds Exploration Program|the related plans for exploration}}, along with the possibility of digging deep enough into the ice to finally confirm or dismiss some of the more interesting theories about the world concerned.

In Arthur C Clarke's novel '''2010''', the monolith aliens tell humanity ''"All these worlds are yours - except Europa. Attempt no landing there."''

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Space]]
[[Category:Space probes]]
[[Category:Food]]

3008: Proterozoic Rocks

2024-11-07T21:11:45Z

162.158.186.196: /* Explanation */ break panel explanations with source

{{comic
| number = 3008
| date = November 6, 2024
| title = Proterozoic Rocks
| image = proterozoic_rocks_2x.png
| imagesize = 740x272px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = These rocks are from a time before eyes, brains, and bones, pieces of a land warmed by an unseen sun.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a BLIND PROTEROZOIC BOT - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

{{w|Proterozoic}} rocks such as the 1.1 billion-year-old rocks in the comic were formed 2500 to 538.8 million years ago, and some of them survived the tectonic movements until today. Proterozoic rocks which were formed from sediment at the bottom of an inland sea such as the former {{w|Western Interior Seaway}} would be placed in North America today.

Animal life and the first animal [https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1716824114 eyes developed on trilobites] half a billion years ago, around the transition between the proterozoic and the phanerozoic {{w|Cambrian}} period, which saw a great proliferation of biological diversity, also known as the Cambrian Explosion.

In the next panel Cueball talks about feeling a connection to the rock, which spans "a vast abyss of time that stretches back as far as the eye can see." This could be interpreted as expressing the need to connect to something that exists vastly beyond the current turbulent era, to put it into perspective and to find strength in knowing that nature transcends human troubles.

The distant past without complex eye-bearing life is illustrated by the ultimate panel in black, because there may be no life on Earth with eyes in around 250 million years.[https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/09/26/triple-whammy-of-extreme-heat-scientists-pinpoint-when-earth-could-become-uninhabitable] The dark far past is depicted as an analogy for the darkened far future, beyond the immediate cares of the current world, which would also apply perspective upon any and all present worldviews.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[Cueball is seen at a distance, walking amid a rocky landscape.]
:I love being near Proterozoic rocks.
:These ones are 1.1 billion years old.
:That's so, '''''so''''' old.

:[Cueball standing next to a rock.]
:Eyes evolved half a billion years ago. The first time a rock was ever looked at, these rocks were already 500 million years old.

:[Cueball sitting atop a large rock.]
:People say geologic time makes them feel small. But when I touch this rock, it's like I'm a part of it, spanning a vast abyss of time that stretches back as far as the eye can see.

:[A completely black panel except for text in white lettering.]
:And then 500 million years farther.

== Trivia ==

This comic was published on the day when {{w|Donald Trump}}'s re-election as president of the USA was announced. Randall was vocal in his support for oppositional candidate {{w|Kamala Harris}}; the xkcd homepage featured [https://web.archive.org/web/20241106175959im_/https://imgs.xkcd.com/news/harris_news@2x.png a drawing with a "Vote for Harris" sign] [https://web.archive.org/web/20241106215812/https://xkcd.com/ during the run-up to the election].

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:All Comics]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Geology]]
[[Category:Biology]]
[[Category:Comics with inverted brightness]]

Talk:3001: Temperature Scales

2024-10-24T03:52:46Z

162.158.186.196: /* Division by zero */ video

Shouldn't Rankine say "0ºR is set to absolute zero"? {{unsigned ip|172.70.230.29|22:58, 21 October 2024 (UTC)}}
:Yep. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.186.253|162.158.186.253]] 04:38, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

yo,i thought comic 3000 was anticlimactic so randall would make this one COOL but sadly not
Same. Hope he does something cool for 3072.[[Special:Contributions/172.69.134.225|172.69.134.225]] 23:44, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

really he didn't do anything special for this either? come ON randall if you don't do something cool for comic 3072 i will come to your house personally and yell at you [[User:RadiantRainwing|RadiantRainwing]] ([[User talk:RadiantRainwing|talk]]) 23:57, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

 
What's random about Fahrenheit? (Answer: nothing.) 0F is the freezing point of brine, 100F (or 98.7) is the human body temperature. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.54.65|172.68.54.65]] 00:00, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
:What concentration of brine? (And which specific salt... No, not NaCl, as you might presume but NH4Cl!)
:And body temperature varies a lot ('typically' 36.5–37.5°C or 97.7–99.5°F, though even this range is thought to be too small), across genders, individuals, time of day ''and'' which orifices/surfaces you try to measure it from. (Originally, it was set so that '''90°F''' was to be the 'best guess' of human body temperature. It gradually changed, including via various {{w|Human body temperature#Historical understanding|compounded misunderstandings}} so that the best you can say is that 100°F is arbitrarily ''slightly above'' most afebrile human body temperature measurements.)
:Celsius might be a bit off (arguments about triple-point or STP freezing, etc), but it still has far more physical logic to it. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.160.188|172.70.160.188]] 01:14, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, Randall, for my comfort, Fahrenheit is the least cursed. It's the best scale to use for my personal use, especially when hearing the weather report and deciding what to wear outdoors: temp in the 80's - no jacket. temp in 70's - maybe a windbreaker if it's breezy. 60's - sweater weather. 50's - medium weight coat. 40's - winter coat. 30'3 - winter coat with scarf and gloves. 20's - multiple layers. teens - stay indoors. None of the other scales provide such convenient distinctions for my daily life. Kelvin is great for astro physics or super conductivity, but useless for any common uses. Celsius is great for hanging out with the Euro crowd but still not so useful to scale my home thermostat. I judge Fahrenheit as 1.0 for cursedness. [[User:Rtanenbaum|Rtanenbaum]] ([[User talk:Rtanenbaum|talk]]) 14:19, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
:I conveniently use Celsius in tens, also. Negative °C: Cold; 0-10°C: Nippy; 10-20°C: Generally pleasant; 20-30°C: Too warm to exert oneself; 30°C+: ''Definitely'' too warm. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.205|172.70.86.205]] 15:24, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Personally, I'm most disappointed that {{w|Delisle scale}} was not represented... [[Special:Contributions/172.70.160.188|172.70.160.188]] 01:14, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
: I was so hoping for a {{w|Planck temperature}} quip. Like: "Water freezing point: 0; Water boiling point: 0; Notes: 1 = highest possible temperature (1.4E32K) where thermal radiation creates black holes; Cursedness: 0/0" [[Special:Contributions/162.158.164.184|162.158.164.184]] 01:27, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
:: Same here. Freezing is 0.000000000000000000000000000001928 and boiling is 0.0000000000000000000000000000026338. [[User:DanielLC|DanielLC]] ([[User talk:DanielLC|talk]]) 03:38, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
::: Wow, those are even smaller than the IEEE floating point representations of 1-1.0/3*3! [[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.109|162.158.90.109]] 03:59, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
:: The Planck temperature quip is definitely well deserved. Good catch! [[User:Mumingpo|Mumingpo]] ([[User talk:Mumingpo|talk]]) 17:24, 23 October 2024 (UTC)
I guess I was wrong in my comment on the last comic. sigh. -[[User:Psychoticpotato|P?sych??otic?pot??at???o ]] ([[User talk:Psychoticpotato|talk]]) 01:16, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

It's actually spelled {{w|Wedgwood scale}}, not Wedgewood. [[User:Wilh3lm|Wilh3lm]] ([[User talk:Wilh3lm|talk]]) 01:17, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

I still call the modern version of the "Celsius" scale "centigrade", but if people start nitpicking, I'm happy to switch to "Carolus" to avoid ambiguity. For some reason that tends to annoy people more though. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.22.191|172.68.22.191]] 01:32, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Every temperature scale is equally "random" as every other scale. People always say that Celsius is so much better because it's defined by the phase changes of water. Okay, cool...why should THAT of all things be what we use as the base for a system of temperature measurement? And, who cares? I'm a ''Homo sapiens'', not a water molecule. If anything we should use the freezing and melting points of humans as our two reference points for temperature (which, I must say, Fahrenheit approximates better than Celsius, assuming 0 and 100 are your points "A" and "B"). [[User:Pie Guy|Pie Guy]] ([[User talk:Pie Guy|talk]]) 03:42, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
: Every temperature scale is arbitrary, but since boiling and freezing water is a thing humans have a lot of experience with it makes sense to use that as the reference point. At least it makes more sense than whatever the coldest recorded temperature in Fahrenheit's home town was, because he didn't like negative numbers [[Special:Contributions/172.70.250.23|172.70.250.23]] 03:56, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
::Planck temperature (as above) is probably the least arbitrary, and some would say it is to some extent free from arbitrariness. However, it's completely impractical for everyday use (as above.) [[Special:Contributions/172.69.34.138|172.69.34.138]] 04:31, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
:::Do the physics of black holes or neutron stars involve Planck temperatures greater than 0.0000001? [[User:Liv2splain|Liv2splain]] ([[User talk:Liv2splain|talk]]) 07:23, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
::::Chat Gippity told me:

:::::Black holes and neutron stars do not typically involve temperatures reaching the Planck scale. While both objects exhibit extreme physical conditions, their temperatures are far below the Planck temperature, even though they can be incredibly high compared to everyday phenomena.

::::: - **Neutron stars** have surface temperatures in the range of millions of Kelvin, and the core can reach even higher, possibly up to a few billion Kelvin. These temperatures are still vastly lower than the Planck temperature.

::::: - **Black holes**, especially the smaller ones, can emit Hawking radiation, with temperatures inversely proportional to their mass. However, the temperature of even a very small black hole is still far below the Planck temperature. Hawking radiation is not expected to reach temperatures close to the Planck scale under normal circumstances.

::::: The Planck temperature (TP=1) represents an energy scale so extreme that no known physical models, including those describing black holes and neutron stars, operate near or above this threshold. Temperatures reaching **0.0000001 TP** (or 1.416 × 10^26 K) would still be beyond current observational and theoretical frameworks related to these cosmic objects. A quantum theory of gravity would be required to describe physics at or near the Planck temperature, which remains speculative and is far beyond the conditions found in black holes or neutron stars.

::::[[User:Liv2splain|Liv2splain]] ([[User talk:Liv2splain|talk]]) 08:46, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

If the °X scale is based on the temperatures of Earth from all time (for some definition of "Earth"), then the scale is very hard to define and highly impractical. The earth appears to have gotten to more than 2,300 Kelvin (hot enough to melt steel and platinum and to boil lead) and while I can't find any sources for the lowest temperature, I imagine it is lower than -100°C. The recorded minimum, maximum and average temperatures appear to be around -89.2 °C, 56.7 °C and 15 °C respectively. This would make the scale somewhat useful, but this would make typical values between 41 °X (cold winter's day) and 68 °X (hot summers day) which I think is pretty cursed. I recommend the clearly superior °Y, based around average temp at 0 °Y, low at -100 °Y and high at 100 °Y. These would be measured by the yearly high, low and mean temperatures averaged per person. Then saying "It's 2 times colder than yesterday" would have some reasonable meaning. --[[Special:Contributions/198.41.236.147|198.41.236.147]] 04:01, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
:"''Record'' ... surface temperature" implies it was recorded. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.22.9|172.68.22.9]] 04:08, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

How do you all feel about adding an additional column for room temperature 22C/72F?
{| class=wikitable style="text-align:right;"
! scope="col" | Unit
! scope="col" | Room temperature
|-
| Celsius || 22
|-
| Kelvin || 295
|-
| Fahrenheit || 72
|-
| Réaumur || 18
|-
| Rømer || 18
|-
| Rankine || 531
|-
| Newton || 7
|-
| Wedgwood || -7
|-
| Galen || 0
|-
| ''Real'' Celsius || 78
|-
| °X || 59
|}

Or 0.00000000000000000000000000000208 °Planck, lol. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.211|108.162.245.211]] 05:36, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
:I feel like decigalens would be the most practical unit. Who's with me? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.186.5|162.158.186.5]] 06:20, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
::It's interesting; calculating the equilibrium temperature (with 2.05 and 4.24 being used for the heat capacities of ice and boiling water) gives 67... If I use water that's about to freeze and steam, I get 31. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.0.178|172.69.0.178]] 07:59, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
:::Would you please explain in more detail? [[User:Liv2splain|Liv2splain]] ([[User talk:Liv2splain|talk]]) 09:03, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
:::: The equilibrium temperature of a mixture (?) of equal quantities of ice at 0 C and water at 100 C (with the heat capacities 2.05 and 4.24) is 67 C; if I use the data for water at 0 C and steam, I get 31 C. Additionally, if I use equal volumes, I get 68 (which isn't much different.) [[Special:Contributions/172.69.0.178|172.69.0.178]] 17:15, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
:::: One can obtain 0 = 22 C by setting the heat capacity of ice to be 39 and that of water to be 11. For any particular "normal temperature" ''R'' °C (that is, the temperature at 0 is ''R'',), I find that ''x'' °C = 50''R''(''x''+4)/(''x''(''R''-50)+200). In particular, for ''R'' = 22, we get (1100+275''x'')/(50-7''x''). [[Special:Contributions/198.41.236.163|198.41.236.163]] 05:58, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Question regarding the X scale - when it‘s defined by *three* (somewhat, implying average is real and not just calculated by (max-min)/2)) independent points, how will linearity be achieved? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.155.76|162.158.155.76]] 05:43, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
[[File:Explanation length.png|right|thumb|Or click "[Expand]" in the bottom right table cell Derivation.]]
:Please see [[2701: Change in Slope]]. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.179|172.70.206.179]] 05:50, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
:Sure, "a linear scale between each point":
[[File:XvsC.png|thumb|left|Here you go. [[User:Liv2splain|Liv2splain]] ([[User talk:Liv2splain|talk]]) 06:33, 22 October 2024 (UTC)]]
{{clear}}

The reference for the average surface temperature, https://www.space.com/17816-earth-temperature.html, suggests it has increased above 15°C. What value should we use in late 2024? [[User:Liv2splain|Liv2splain]] ([[User talk:Liv2splain|talk]]) 07:30, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
:The [https://wmo.int/media/news/earth-experiences-warmest-day-recent-history World Meteorological Organization], [https://www.carbonbrief.org/state-of-the-climate-2024-now-very-likely-to-be-warmest-year-on-record/ Carbon Brief], and [https://climate.copernicus.eu/new-record-daily-global-average-temperature-reached-july-2024 Copernicus Climate Change Service] suggest 17.16°C. [[User:Liv2splain|Liv2splain]] ([[User talk:Liv2splain|talk]]) 07:42, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
::Updated water temperatures, Derivation, and graph. So we've already had more than the +2°C warming we were trying to avoid in 2019? [[User:Liv2splain|Liv2splain]] ([[User talk:Liv2splain|talk]]) 08:05, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
::: The +2°C (or +1.5°C that we were originally supposed to be avoiding) is over some (undefined) number of years, though, which allows us to ignore the fact that we're cooking ourselves by repeatedly saying 'Oh, but it doesn't count ''yet''.' [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.62|172.70.91.62]] 11:13, 23 October 2024 (UTC)
Regarding [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=3001%3A_Temperature_Scales&type=revision&diff=353635&oldid=353632], are the average surface temperatures from the sources supposed to be yearly or overall averages? [[User:Liv2splain|Liv2splain]] ([[User talk:Liv2splain|talk]]) 09:06, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
:According to https://climate.copernicus.eu/climate-indicators/temperature the global average near-surface temperature in 2023 was 14.4 + 0.4 = 14.8°C. (see Figure 1 and click "Increase above: [1991–2020 reference period].") [[Special:Contributions/172.68.22.8|172.68.22.8]] 21:06, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

where is the interactive epic 3000 comic we should've gotten? This one's cool but 1000 seemed to have more effort in it and 2000 was at least tangetially related. Does Randall just not like making these anymore and is only making more comics as a business? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.185|108.162.238.185]] 12:14, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
:The comic is free on the website and it doesn't have ads; although the comic is part of his "brand" there are many more profitable things he could be doing with his time, and yet he continues to update it every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. I just don't like the idea of claiming that a creative person "should" produce any particular thing to satisfy their fans. He's a busy guy! Maybe he's working on a book, or a Scientific American article, or a TV show. He's under no obligation to give us anything, and maybe one day he'll stop making xkcd altogether; that's his choice. Sorry to single you out; I know a lot of people feel the same way as you do, but to me it doesn't make sense. He's not a content machine--he's a guy who started posting sketches on the internet. [[User:Dextrous Fred|Dextrous Fred]] ([[User talk:Dextrous Fred|talk]]) 15:23, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
::Sorry if I sounded overly brash, I wasn't trying to imply "wahhh no special entry wahhh", I was just wondering if Randall still likes to make these or if he doesn't, mainly because he just didn't do anything special, which feels like he just didn't care. I wasn't trying to imply Randall should just do it for the fans[[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.80|108.162.238.80]] 17:52, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
:::It ''could'' be that 3000 (or even 3001) ''was'' going to be special but, as fairly frequently with April Fool 'specials', it just wasn't doable on time. (If it's still considered fixablez it might pop up sometime before 3020 or so. Or, if transferable to another occasion (rebranding the obvious "3000!"ness), held over until Haloween, Christmas, April or 4000, perhaps with additional perfections.)
:::Hard to know, unless Randall (or his technical collaborators) say anything. And it's probably not worth doing so right now. Maybe "Hey guys, this ''was'' going to be #3000!" might accompany its eventual emergence, but also maybe not. Does it really matter? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.139|172.70.85.139]] 13:03, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Is this the first list-style comic where every single entry is real? (Usually he has several joke entries.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.114.182|172.70.114.182]] 14:26, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Where would [[1923: Felsius|Felsius]] go on this list?

One can find a smooth function for °X, namely, (477879''x''-17634840)/(3341''x''+197700), which takes °X and returns °C. The inverse is (-197700''x''-17634840)/(3341''x''-477879). Should this be included in the wiki article? Or maybe another way of fitting it (like exponential) should be used. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.0.165|172.69.0.165]] 06:27, 23 October 2024 (UTC)
:It says "a linear scale between each point". [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.130|172.70.210.130]] 21:09, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Should it be noted that in the first _What If?_ book, there's a reference to units and how much Randall loathes rankine? Someone can go take the book and cite it; it's in one of the early pages [[Special:Contributions/172.64.236.10|172.64.236.10]] 08:45, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

I remember it being drummed into us in school physics (admittedly over 50 years ago) that 0 Celsius is defined as the melting point of ice, not the freezing point of water (presumably because of supercooling). [[Special:Contributions/172.70.160.189|172.70.160.189]] 08:49, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

It seems he wrote "Earths'" (plural possessive) instead of "Earth's". [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.151|141.101.98.151]] 08:58, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

What? No gas mark? It's linear for temperatures over 275°F but inverse powers of 2 below That's pretty cursed, but I still put it in my unit conversion app. It's only used in gas stoves in a few countries, so it doesn't come up very often. By the way, boiling is 1/5.7358 and freezing/melting is 1/843.3572. Interestingly, France has it's own stove temperature scale that seems to be based on °F.

Also, my understanding is that 7.5 and 32 aren't random. Both Romer and Fahrenheit put numbers on things so that freezing/melting of water and "Normal human body temperature", which was thought to be standard at the time, would be some number X (15 for Romer and 64 for Fahrenheit) and the water thing would be to be X/2 and NHBT would be X/2+X. Pretty nerdy. Sadly, the calibration was off and 212 degrees for boiling was found to be less cursed. But I could be wrong.[[Special:Contributions/172.68.54.138|172.68.54.138]] 20:39, 23 October 2024 (UTC)
:Re: water/ice point 'random number', I think it's more that it wasn't considered "special", such that "On my scale, that will be zero" (or whatever choice of handily round number, including zero, some scale-setters allocated to the BP of water).
:After all the other messing about ("my zero will be that of brine!", etc), obviously then the ~0°C equivalent would ''have'' a number, and ''perhaps'' there would then be a slight change to make it a ''whole'' (or easy-fraction) number for convenience's sake, but (before the concept of binary computers) there's not much special about landing on the number 32, for what is actually a temperature that is quite significant to the human experience, and less so with 7-''and-a-half''.
:Maybe landing on 90°F (at one time) for body temperature (and 180 F° ''between'' MP and BP) was considered useful as the analogue to angular-degrees where 90 (and 180) indeed features significantly, but I don't think there'd have been too much fuss if the value would have turned out to be 60(/120), also with plenty of handy factors to divide by, 70(/140), without so much, or whatever number(s) happened to depict one realistic real-world measurement that (overall) has no reason to have a factor-based relationship with various quite separate phenomenon measurements.
:''And'' it went through several {{w|Human body temperature#Historical understanding|'corrective' iterations}} so that even its handy relationship with 'about 100°F' can be said to be an incidental accident, at best, unless we do something like Randall's °X scale and actively triple-tie the central value of the slope(s) to be exactly something useful by using the "currently accepted mean human body temperature (given various complicated caveats)".
:It's pretty much all random, in the same way that only because of anthropocentric choices of 'standard' time and distance measurements is the speed of light 'pretty much' 3×10⁸ m/s (a handily round value that works well enough for most purposes, even after back-standardising its component SI measurements to make "actually, precisely 299792458" the ''proper'' answer, and [https://conversion.org/speed/speed-of-light/furlong-per-fortnight it could be far worse...]). Avagadro's number never had it so good (6.022(+change)×1023...? ...where's the handily mnemonic value in that?), and Pi (in this universe's system of fundemental mathematics) clearly never ever had a chance! And, on {{w|Mount Everest#19th century|at least one occasion}}, such happenstance numeric roundedness in its exactitude (29''',000''' ft) was considered actually quite awkward... [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.90|172.70.91.90]] 21:33, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Ok, then, regarding {{diff|353895|this edit}} (and the original IP-led one(s) that even made huge and revert-necessary changes), was it ''really'' intended to get rid of whole paragraphs such as "Randall also fails to specify what happens with temperatures[...]" that had nothing to do with the numeric adjustments? When I see that, I see mistakes (especially in light of the "clobber" that happened, where typos reappeared and other things became unexplained/worse-explained once more). — Basically, if your edit summary is nust about updating baseline data, and the resulting maths, I don't expect (maybe good, maybe bad) edits to unrelated bits. Or I may (and have) presumed accidental (or deliberate?) carelessness that I'd rather not try to go back to first principles to re-re-check for the editor concerned. That is all. At least try to justify enough of your edit in its own way, even if it means diving in several times to get enough space to summarise your whole "why" to each tweak. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.186.104|172.68.186.104]] 22:44, 23 October 2024 (UTC)
:Yes. I have re-removed the removals piecemeal with individual edit summaries for clarity. Many of them involved detailed obscure technical misunderstandings, such as whether the Vostok and Death Valley measurements were surface temperatures (the WMO says they are, and there are the WMO's photos of the observation stations in the linked references now) which combined with the incorrect yearly average global mean temperature, added five paragraphs unnecessarily. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.23.152|172.68.23.152]] 01:46, 24 October 2024 (UTC)
::Definitely some points made (some incorrect, "ne er" was ''obviously'' more just a basic typo of "never", not my attempt to use "ne'er" for no good reason, and my attempt to fix that and some other bits ran into a set of Edit Conflicts ...hope I caught all the remaining ones when I finally could try again on the settled-down page) and I've blended answers to your objections in while giving back what useful nuances (from a number of past editors, only a couple of bits even having had my own hand primarilly behind them as they were) really needn't have been removed. I dispute the terms of your objections (as summarised) behind {{diff|353937|some changes}}, but have rephrased based upon what I ''think'' you mean, giving you should prefer and wouldn't feel the need to be as randomly censorious about. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.195.173|172.69.195.173]] 02:54, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

== Division by zero ==

I saw this in an edit summary: "10/0 is not ∞, it's also an error, not NaN according to the IEEE. It's closer to {+∞, -∞} than NaN but it's still neither because you can't make limits work"

Actually, IEEE floating point 10/0 can be an error, +∞, or NaN depending on the rounding mode. This is one of the reasons why mathemeticians don't appreciate the IEEE as much as they might. Division by zero is strictly undefined because of the problems with limits alluded to in the summary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2z5uzqxJNU [[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.66|108.162.245.66]] 03:48, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

Black Hat

2024-09-16T00:23:55Z

162.158.186.196: Black hat first appeared in comic number 12: Poisson

{{Infobox character
| image = BlackHat_head.png
| imagesize = 200px
| caption = '
| first_appearance = [[29: Hitler]]
}}

<noinclude>:''For a list of comics, see [[:Category:Comics featuring Black Hat|Comics featuring Black Hat]].''
:''For Black Hat's girlfriend, see [[Danish]].''</noinclude>

[[File:Man in Hats.png|400px|thumb|right|The [http://meninhats.com/d/20040225.html ''Men in Hats'' comic] which Black Hat is based on.]]'''Black Hat''' is a [[stick figure]] character in ''[[xkcd]]''. He is distinguished by his eponymous black hat, and, unlike other ''xkcd'' characters, he always represents the same character in every comic. In [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_zwyJ6IYR0#t=1451 his talk at Dartmouth], [[Randall Munroe|Randall]] discusses his why he wanted to create a separate "asshole" character in his comics, or "Classhole", a term coined by his friend Beth and used in [[72: Classhole]]. In his first appearance, [[29: Hitler]], Black Hat wore a taller top-hat style hat, that quickly evolved to have the current shape and style of a {{w|pork pie hat}}, already used in [[45: Schrodinger]].

The title text of [[29: Hitler]], his second appearance, says he's based on a character named Aram from a now discontinued webcomic called ''[http://www.meninhats.com Men in Hats]'' and, in the original caption, Randall directed the user to a specific ''Men in Hats'' [http://meninhats.com/d/20040225.html comic about parenting]. Like Black Hat, Aram frequently made judgmental, insulting, or controversial comments in a very emotionless manner. Aram wore a dark gray suit with a red bowtie and a black top hat with a white strip above the brim. Black Hat's hat clearly evolved from the top hat design later in ''xkcd''.

==Name==
It is possible that Black Hat has a name that has been used in the actual webcomic, as opposed to the name "Black Hat." In the title texts of [[29: Hitler]] and [[493: Actuarial]], Black Hat is referred to as "the hat guy" and "Hat guy" respectively. In [[1139: Rubber and Glue]] a young [[Hairy]] also gave him the nickname "Hatboy". These early characters may also be a different persona.

It's not verified that Black Hat is a reference to {{w|Black hat hacking}}, but the character's personality is in line with the idea of a "black hat hacker" from the software engineering culture that [[Randall|Randall's]] comics are written for. Black Hat speaks from a place of casual power and safety, living in the luxury that many early hobby hackers found by being ahead of the tech curve or even actually hacking financial systems, hatching evil schemes often for no reason other than to cause chaos or go against the societal norms.

The title text also says Black Hat is based on a character named Aram from a now discontinued webcomic called ''[http://www.meninhats.com Men in Hats]'' and, in the original caption, [[Randall Munroe|Randall]] directed the user to a specific ''Men in Hats'' [http://meninhats.com/d/20040225.html comic about parenting]. Like Black Hat, Aram frequently made judgmental, insulting, or controversial comments in a very emotionless manner. Aram wore a gray suit with a red bowtie and a black top hat with a white strip above the brim. Black Hat's hat clearly evolved from the top hat design later in xkcd.

==Characteristics==
He almost always wears his hat and has short hair, as shown in the [[:Category:Journal|"Journal" series]], [[412: Startled]], and [[1401: New]]. Judging by [[1139: Rubber and Glue]] and [[1753: Thumb War]], he has worn the hat since he was a child. He used to work alone, sometimes helped by [[Cueball]], but he has found a female counterpart and partner in [[Danish]], his girlfriend.

While no definite reason is given for how he became so sadistic, in [[792: Password Reuse]] Black Hat says "since March of 1997 I don't really believe in anything" suggesting some traumatic experience made him this way. Some black hat hackers are simply so detached from the real world they don't understand that others suffer; others may have led rough lives and been through crime rings as a sole way to find community. In [[1139: Rubber and Glue]], the boys making fun of Black Hat as a child appear to be in elementary school based on one calling for his mom, so Black Hat probably is too. He is already sadistic by this point so the event would have happened when he was quite young; experiencing it so early would explain how the mystery event could have reshaped his entire personality. Unfortunately, no details are ever given.

{{navbox-characters}}

[[Category:Characters]]
[[Category:Characters with hats| Black Hat]]
[[Category:Major characters]]

Talk:2941: Cell Organelles

2024-06-04T17:19:18Z

162.158.186.196: done

I'm a little disappointed there isn't a continuous endoplasmic reticulum with a zigzag in it.
Rogue mathematician away [[Special:Contributions/172.71.154.77|172.71.154.77]] 19:20, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Sorry about the edit conflicts, attempting to fix.... [[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.237|108.162.245.237]] 20:12, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Re [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2941:_Cell_Organelles&diff=343629&oldid=343628] is LLM use forbidden? I recall we have several ChatGPT-authored explanations, and had an ongoing discussion back when it was new. In any case, I've proofread and vouch for it, so I'm replacing the text. I encourage anyone who's bothered by it to paraphrase instead of delete. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.237|108.162.245.237]] 21:22, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

:If you've got the time to check AI-generated content properly and agree that it's what ''you'' would have written, you've got time to write it from scratch exactly how you'd have written it. And you get dangerously close to just putting in AI-content without checking at all, which right now is remains foolhardy.
:But, most of all, anything anyone submits can be changed by anyone else, and I don't know who picked up on it being AI and dealt with it the way they did, but only consensus can truly resolve where any attempt to impose an edit leads. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.119|162.158.74.119]] 22:36, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

::I almost completely agree with you for Wikipedia (I'd just change 'would' to 'could') and similar wikis, but it's undeniable that ExplainXkcd is different in some very substantial and obvious ways, many of which bear on whether to utilize AI. In particular, I would accept pretty much anything that helps explain the comic whether authored by human, machine, animal, or alien, but not hesitate for a second to, as the text below the Summary text input box says, edit it "mercilessly" whether I thought it was LLM-generated or not. But I wouldn't delete an even barely serviceable explanation ''just'' because I thought it came from an LLM, even if it was objectively low quality. I would try to improve it, which almost never means starting over from scratch. I'm not sure I believe the same is true for humans, who often insert, e.g., vandalism, trolling, or extremely undue and/or fringe topic passages. If an LLM is doing that, there's probably a human behind it. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.17|108.162.245.17]] 00:21, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

:Both the paragraphs and the table have been edited far enough from what ChatGPT pretty obviously came up with (almost all of which I would say merit inclusion unaltered, [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2941:_Cell_Organelles&diff=343604&oldid=343601 looking at the initial edits; although there is evidence that the LLM output was copyedited and wikilinked in a way that it would probably not do,] i.e., we use the {{tl|w}} template here which is not at all a Mediawiki standard, the Wikimedia wikis having a different form <nowiki>[[w:...]]</nowiki>) so that whatever deleterious LLM contamination they had has surely been beat out of them at this stage. Perhaps the GenAI deletionist is trying to encourage others to not fall prey to reliance on LLMs? A worthy goal, but I agree paraphrasing is far superior. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.34.180|172.69.34.180]] 01:57, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Re: the chloroplasts explanation: how do we know that this is an animal cell? (Would be good to say why...) -- [[User:Dtgriscom|Dtgriscom]] ([[User talk:Dtgriscom|talk]]) 22:18, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
:The cell has a membrane instead of a wall. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.199|162.158.90.199]] 22:24, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
::No, that’s human skin. [[User:Usb-rave|Usb-rave]] ([[User talk:Usb-rave|talk]]) 00:48, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
:::Yeah, the rule of thumb is of course a generalization worthy of chemistry "rules" -- the {{w|bone cell}} being perhaps the most obvious uncategorizable corner case of several. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.150.236|172.71.150.236]] 02:12, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Why does Golgi look like an alien, he's so little and cute. Wtf. [[User:Psychoticpotato|Psychoticpotato]] ([[User talk:Psychoticpotato|talk]]) 23:11, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

:You know what I would like to see from AI? A tiny white Grey Golgi alien working in the cytoplasm to build his apparatus. Please see below. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.147.106|172.71.147.106]] 03:50, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Should 2732: Bursa of Fabricius be referenced? It feels like the Golgi Apparatus is making a similar joke, if somewhat inverted. [[User:Dkfenger|Dkfenger]] ([[User talk:Dkfenger|talk]]) 01:19, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

To me, 'Drain plug' is an engine oil-drain plug. Yes it is a bolt, rarely used in biological systems. But a cell and an engine are normally full of fluid, while plumbing sinks are normally empty. --[[User:PRR|PRR]] ([[User talk:PRR|talk]]) 02:10, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
:To me it's about as often something you would find in a kitchen or bathroom sink, especially if the plumbing was from the 1970s or earlier. Honestly I'm too young to know when sink plugs fell out of favor to levers. In any case, an actual hole in the cell membrane is almost always a potentially mortal wound, and few cells have any means of repairing all but the smallest tears. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.207.197|172.70.207.197]] 02:47, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Hello there! 👋 I think you guys mixed up midichlorian and mitochondria explanations. 👋 You surely will want to fix that. 👋 Also, you want to make me a sandwich. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.177|172.70.85.177]] 05:13, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
:LGTM. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.146.218|172.71.146.218]] 09:29, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

I'm a little bit disappointed that there's no Sulawesi hidden in there. This is the sort of comci you'd expect it in. [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 06:48, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
: I'm disappointed that, alongside the drain plug, there isn't a pain drug.[[Special:Contributions/172.69.195.183|172.69.195.183]] 12:52, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

I dislike that this table is in alphabetical order instead of the top-down order they were meant to be read.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.231.39|172.70.231.39]] 10:08, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
:"Fixed." Click the column heading to return to alphabetical order. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.186.196|162.158.186.196]] 17:19, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

I'm going to fail my Biology exam tomorrow because of this :( ([[User talk:SectorCorruptor|talk]]) 11:52, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

=== Golgi by AI art contest ===

Survey questions: (1) Which of these do you like the best? https://ibb.co/album/68tCSn Can you do better?

(2) Does anyone know how to make AI animations like those? [[Special:Contributions/172.71.142.181|172.71.142.181]] 03:49, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

== Nucleolus ==

Wouldn't "Nucleololus" be a better continuation to "Nucleus" and "Nucleolus", with each term getting one more "ol" between "e" and the second "u"? [[Special:Contributions/172.71.222.50|172.71.222.50]] 08:04, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

2448: Eradication

2021-04-10T15:14:23Z

162.158.186.196: /* Explanation */ qualifier

{{comic
| number = 2448
| date = April 10, 2021
| title = Eradication
| image = eradication.png
| titletext = When you get to hell, tell smallpox we say hello.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a REVENGE-BASED PUBLIC HEALTH POLICY. Please mention here why this explanation isn't complete. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
This is another comic in the [[:Category:COVID-19|COVID-19 series]] related to the {{w|2019-20 coronavirus outbreak|2020 pandemic}}, caused by the {{w|coronavirus}} {{w|SARS-CoV-2}}.

[[Megan]] wants revenge on the pandemic virus.

Megan assumes SARS-CoV-2 will remain in circulation even after the pandemic is over. "Vaccines and stuff" will, in all likelihood, reduce it to a background threat, but eradicating an infectious disease entirely is difficult. This can be seen in the ongoing struggle to {{w|Polio eradication|eradicate polio}}.

{{W|Smallpox}}, mentioned in the title text, was the first human disease that was successfully wiped out in the wild. This is why Megan tells Covid-19 to say hello to Smallpox when we send it permanently to Hell.

To date, the only other documented successful eradication was of {{w|rinderpest}}, a livestock disease declared eradicated in 2011.

==Transcript==
:[Megan holding a hand up, palm held out, is walking with Cueball.]
:Megan: Even if the threat eventually fades, thanks to vaccines and stuff,

:[They walk on, both with their arms down.]
:Megan: And it becomes just another circulating common cold virus,

:[Megan holds her hand up in a fist, while Cueball hold his hand to his chin as they walk on.]
:Megan: I think we should pursue global eradication of SARS-CoV-2 out of ''spite''.
:Cueball: Revenge-based public health policy. I like it.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:COVID-19]]
[[Category:COVID-19 vaccine]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]

Talk:2351: Standard Model Changes

2020-08-30T17:42:19Z

162.158.186.196: reword

Re: "but for the most part [the changes] are nonsensical"
I find the symbol changes pretty compelling, actually. Much clearer :)
[[Special:Contributions/172.69.34.210|172.69.34.210]] 00:05, 27 August 2020 (UTC) Related: I was going to respond to Randall here with Talking Heads' "Stop Making Sense" :=) [[User:Cellocgw|Cellocgw]] ([[User talk:Cellocgw|talk]]) 10:04, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Honestly, I'd vote to change every nu in physics to something else since its so damned hard to write differently and read lazily.

Yeah. Can we get the president of physics in here please? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.34.140|172.69.34.140]] 01:35, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
:There is no president. Changing names is probably ok, but if you want to change the physics like with removing of neutrinos, you need to talk to God. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 23:41, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
::So... We need to talk to the ''pontiff'' of physics, then? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.110|162.158.159.110]] 03:44, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Top/Bottom should probably be In/Out or Front/Back or something. And that's even before Randall's proposed changes. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.70|141.101.98.70]] 01:51, 27 August 2020 (UTC) "T" and "B" originally were going to be short for [redacted] and Bums , back when sexism was rampant. Possibly that's an urban legend, but having been in Physics grad school around the time quarks became a thing, I can believe it. [[User:Cellocgw|Cellocgw]] ([[User talk:Cellocgw|talk]]) 10:04, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Didn't t/b stand for truth and beauty at some point, thus formerly lining up more favorably with strange and charm? Also, a "cool bugs" ''boson'' with spin 1/2 would itself be a cool bug, in the sense of a glitch. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.34.150|172.69.34.150]] 05:07, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

It's a bit weird that he added left/right since most of the particle already come in left- and right-handed chirality.

Comic 2240 has a "cool bug epoch" in the expansion of the universe that could be linked from the "cool bug" particle in this comic. ----

The explanation says that the cool bugs particle goes into the scalar boson group, which isn't right because there isn't such a group here. Vin Diesel is a scalar, but the general agreement is that graviton has spin 2 (and for this reason it's also not really correct to move it to the gauge boson group). The group is more accurately called the everything else group. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.202.110|162.158.202.110]] 11:22, 27 August 2020 (UTC) anon

I posit the reason for "left, right" being in the order they are (instead of the more logical "right, left") is due to the Konami code being up, up, down, down, '''left, right''', etc... [[User:SiliconCarbide|SiliconCarbide]] ([[User talk:SiliconCarbide|talk]])
:Standard (American) English pairs Up-Down, Top-Bottom, and Left-Right, in that order, much like To-Fro, Here-There, Salt-Pepper and Shoes-Socks. It is unusual to refer to Right-Left ordering in English. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.209|162.158.74.209]] 17:37, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

The Right/Strange description box included this: "What's strange is how Randall assigns the charm quark the left and the strange quark the right, when so many languages have it the other way around. But since when has Randall cared?"
Which is not at all clear. What is it that languages have what other way around?
I moved it because it is so vague to seems meaningless. If it was a useful observation, please clarify so somebody who doesn't know what it means already can understand. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.106.244|162.158.106.244]] 17:32, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Isn't a τ-Lepton just the same as two π-Leptons? That's why it's superflous. -[[Special:Contributions/162.158.202.86|162.158.202.86]] 17:54, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
:Except that π is a meson, not a lepton. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.108|108.162.215.108]] 04:39, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Most recent revision "(→‎Leptons: neutrons are universally lower-case n, ..." isn't strictly true in its reversion of a prior statement. {{w|Neutron|Wikipedia}} (amongst other places) states possible symbols of "n, n⁰, N⁰". The replacement information is probably not wrong, though. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.185|162.158.158.185]] 11:38, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

"Randall apparently considers magic to exist and be a particle, both of which are blatantly false." - but both the text of the comic and the sentence immediately after this one clearly state that it is ''intentionally'' inaccurate, so this seems like a strange claim to make. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.34.156|172.69.34.156]] 01:59, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

This is the first time I have seen an explainxkcd that blatantly and intentionally lies in the explanation. Jokes are common, especially the 'citation needed' meme. But your supposed to do that ''without'' any lies. Someone please fix it (especially the bug section) to be a funny, but accurate explanation as per the norm. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.226|108.162.237.226]] 17:37, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Talk:2348: Boat Puzzle

2020-08-25T19:27:31Z

162.158.186.196:

A link could be made to this wiki entry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf,_goat_and_cabbage_problem#Occurrence_and_variations . Also the last panel is seemingly a reference to the trolley problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem

Callback to strip 1134. https://xkcd.com/1134/ I don't know how to add a proper link.
Pete [[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.71|162.158.154.71]] 22:23, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Oh boy someone out there is gonna get nerd-sniped ''real'' hard [[User:Fieldbox|Fieldbox]] ([[User talk:Fieldbox|talk]]) 23:48, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Some thoughts I had:

- There's a hierarchy: Wolfeater -> Wolves -> Goats & Cabbage moths -> Cabbages

- Does Wolfeater also eat cabbage? Yes. It's a goat

- There are [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_paper_scissors#Additional_weapons additional weapons for Rock paper scissors]

- Black Hat's moths and termites could obviously be transported so far (Black Hat might lie, source needed), but in the spirit of the question: moths can't be left alone with cabbages, and termites will destroy the boat if a crossing with them is attempted

- Cabbages can cushion the trolley, and still function as cabbages afterwards. Use White Hat's, because he has 100/101 cabbages, Ponytail's 1 cabbage adds less than 1% to the cushion, and if it's a special kind (probably not in the spirit of the question), it would get jumbled with the rest of them in the cushioning

- 6 humans to keep an eye on things, instead of the normal 1

- Trolley doesn't get to cross. It can hold multiple wolves, let's say at least 3, and if the trolley ''could'' cross, then Cueball wouldn't hesitate to recommend Ponytail go across with her 3 items [[User:Coverbe|Coverbe]] ([[User talk:Coverbe|talk]]) 05:03, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Relevant: "Rubicon" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-ROdRgRRsY [[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.14|162.158.159.14]] 07:28, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Question: is the wolf-eating goat the same goat as the goat that Beret Guy won from Monty Hall? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.63.247|172.69.63.247]] 15:53, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

On "Reasonable assumptions": "Stopping the trolley destroys all the cabbages. Otherwise the event does not affect the logic puzzle" - This could be a red herring. And: We can still see the cabbages as 2 groups: 1+100. Destroying White Hat's 100 still lets Ponytail's 1 survive intact

"The pack of wolves in the trolley, if rescued, will eat a human or wolf eating goat left alone" - This phrasing is strange. If part of it means "wolves will eat the wolf-eating-goat": I disagree. See rock-paper-scissors [[User:Coverbe|Coverbe]] ([[User talk:Coverbe|talk]]) 16:25, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
:If you have (any) single wolf and (any) single goat alone on one side as you depart, upon your return you will probably discover ''either'' a wolf-eating-goat ''or'' a wolf eating goat. Which it is, will obviously depend upon the finer details, but it's a failure both ways... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.14|162.158.159.14]] 18:29, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
::That I agree with. I still wonder about "The pack of wolves […] will eat a human […]". I think it's a more reasonable assumption that any human can control any number of wolves [[User:Coverbe|Coverbe]] ([[User talk:Coverbe|talk]]) 19:03, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
:::That's a patently absurd suggestion in any other context, and arbitrary at best here. [[User:GreatWyrmGold|GreatWyrmGold]] ([[User talk:GreatWyrmGold|talk]]) 16:23, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

What if only Cueball of all the humans can row the boat? He could be the ferryman[[Special:Contributions/172.69.2.166|172.69.2.166]] 18:19, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

But no-one's allowed to use the boat if they haven't figured out their eye color yet. (Assume the people, goats, wolves, moths, and termites are all perfect logicians. Assume the water is unreflective, the trolley has no windows, and Cueball makes his spreadsheet without looking at a screen. Assume everyone is a very bad communicator outside of announcing their logical predicaments. Assume that Black Hat will strictly enforce these guidelines.) [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.18|108.162.219.18]] 19:31, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

"The pack of wolves in the trolley, if abandoned by the humans and rescued by the wolf who can operate a boat, will eat a human or wolf-eating goat left alone." - This seems really needlessly complex and doesn't really have a bearing on the problem in general.
:Yeah, not sure that's better.[[User:Sturmovik|Sturmovik]] ([[User talk:Sturmovik|talk]]) 02:45, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Given Beret Guy's surrealist nature, maybe the solution is to send him across in the boat alone, then he can return with one item: the opposite bank. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.18|162.158.159.18]] 17:08, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
:Certainly worth bringing up to him, I'd say. Also, thanks for the chuckle -- [[Special:Contributions/162.158.186.196|162.158.186.196]] 19:27, 25 August 2020 (UTC)