explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

Talk:2384: Set in the Present

2020-11-14T00:37:43Z

162.158.92.100:

Although I've described the TV as being wall-mounted, a literal reading of the scenario is that it and Cueball are both floating in a featureless void (which has covid). [[User:Captain Video|Captain Video]] ([[User talk:Captain Video|talk]]) 02:09, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Can I just say this is ''so'' true... GOOMHR! Anything even vaguely archival (repeats or first-runs of shows recorded before ~Marchish 2020) that don't have a prominent "This was recorded prior to..." announcement look... strange. Unsettling, even. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.158|141.101.98.158]] 02:15, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
:Just out of curiosity (because I mainly watch older stuff): are there any current, contemporarily-set shows that were filmed during COVID and where actors have (or have not) started wearing masks?
: I think if I were a producer, I would simply add masks to the show in situations where people would wear them in real life, even if the script was written before COVID. You wouldn`t even have to mention it in the show. Would make it more realistic, safer for the actors, and would acknowledge that COVID is simply a reality in 2020.
:: Really ''really'' [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-53936399 contemporary productions] have famously made various concessions to make 'reality' film safely (not sure what they did about masks to film a 'safe reality', I don't watch that stuff myself). Anything that can be delayed seems to have been delayed, though, so we're yet to see 'new normal' pop up, and anything mid-shoot will likely start again with precautionary but pre-mask arrangements rather than reshoot the old shots to include face-coverings. It's going to be interesting to see what signs creep in (like radio dramas where clearly they Zoomed it in, just one character sounds like they're under a duvet, or ought to have been). [[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.128|162.158.159.128]] 11:58, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Transcript has a typo for the year: " Is this story set in 2049?" should read " Is this story set in 2019?"[[Special:Contributions/162.158.166.247|162.158.166.247]] 09:40, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
:Easily changed. Done! ;) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.128|162.158.159.128]] 11:58, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Reminded me of this tweet thread from @qntm in June ("do you feel like in the past six months all contemporary fiction became period fiction"): https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1275909147729551360.html [[User:Arcorann|Arcorann]] ([[User talk:Arcorann|talk]]) 00:06, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

I'm not affected. In movies I'm watching, missing covid is NOT the most fantastic element. (Also, there is enough CGI that filming each real character separately won't change the movie production much.) -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 06:53, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

The problem with including masks etc. in productions is that it dates the movie/show precisely and makes it *about* COVID (qv.: chechovs gun) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.92.100|162.158.92.100]] 00:34, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

Talk:2384: Set in the Present

2020-11-14T00:34:38Z

162.158.92.100:

Although I've described the TV as being wall-mounted, a literal reading of the scenario is that it and Cueball are both floating in a featureless void (which has covid). [[User:Captain Video|Captain Video]] ([[User talk:Captain Video|talk]]) 02:09, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Can I just say this is ''so'' true... GOOMHR! Anything even vaguely archival (repeats or first-runs of shows recorded before ~Marchish 2020) that don't have a prominent "This was recorded prior to..." announcement look... strange. Unsettling, even. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.158|141.101.98.158]] 02:15, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
:Just out of curiosity (because I mainly watch older stuff): are there any current, contemporarily-set shows that were filmed during COVID and where actors have (or have not) started wearing masks?
: I think if I were a producer, I would simply add masks to the show in situations where people would wear them in real life, even if the script was written before COVID. You wouldn`t even have to mention it in the show. Would make it more realistic, safer for the actors, and would acknowledge that COVID is simply a reality in 2020.
:: Really ''really'' [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-53936399 contemporary productions] have famously made various concessions to make 'reality' film safely (not sure what they did about masks to film a 'safe reality', I don't watch that stuff myself). Anything that can be delayed seems to have been delayed, though, so we're yet to see 'new normal' pop up, and anything mid-shoot will likely start again with precautionary but pre-mask arrangements rather than reshoot the old shots to include face-coverings. It's going to be interesting to see what signs creep in (like radio dramas where clearly they Zoomed it in, just one character sounds like they're under a duvet, or ought to have been). [[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.128|162.158.159.128]] 11:58, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Transcript has a typo for the year: " Is this story set in 2049?" should read " Is this story set in 2019?"[[Special:Contributions/162.158.166.247|162.158.166.247]] 09:40, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
:Easily changed. Done! ;) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.128|162.158.159.128]] 11:58, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Reminded me of this tweet thread from @qntm in June ("do you feel like in the past six months all contemporary fiction became period fiction"): https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1275909147729551360.html [[User:Arcorann|Arcorann]] ([[User talk:Arcorann|talk]]) 00:06, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

I'm not affected. In movies I'm watching, missing covid is NOT the most fantastic element. (Also, there is enough CGI that filming each real character separately won't change the movie production much.) -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 06:53, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

The problem with including masks etc. in productions is that it dates the movie/show precisely and makes it *about* COVID (cv.: chechovs gun) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.92.100|162.158.92.100]] 00:34, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

2383: Electoral Precedent 2020

2020-11-10T01:37:51Z

162.158.92.100: last two panels commented

{{comic
| number = 2383
| date = November 9, 2020
| title = Electoral Precedent 2020
| image = electoral_precedent_2020.png
| titletext = He also broke the streak that incumbents with websites are unbeatable and Delawareans can't win, creating a new precedent: Only someone from Delaware can defeat an incumbent with a website.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by JOE BIDEN. Please mention here why this explanation isn't complete. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
This comic is an update to [[1122: Electoral Precedent]], adding "broken precedents" for the US presidential elections in 2016 and 2020.

The final two panels again show how the 'precendent' have side conditions that influenced these precedents:
* No sitting president who was impeached, was nominated for the office again... until Trump. Given his supporters, the fact that he was impeached did not influence many voters, either.
* The last time a challenger beat an incumbent, at all, was in 1992 when websites weren't nearly as predominant than ever since. Having at least a single website actually increases the likelyhood to beat an opponent [citation needed]. So there is no 'curse' on using websites.

There is a secret message under Trump's 2016 square, which reveals a bonus trend: 'No nominee whose first name contains a 'K' has lost'.
==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:The problem with statements like
:"No <party> candidate has won the election without <state>"
:Or
:"No president has been reelected under <circumstances>"

<nowiki>*</nowiki> Updated for 2020 *

:1788... No one has been elected president before. ...But Washington was.
:1792... No incumbent has ever been reelected. ...Until Washington.
:1796... No one without false teeth has become president. ...But Adams did.
:1800... No challenger has beaten an incumbent. ...But Jefferson did.
:1804... No incumbent has beaten a challenger. ...Until Jefferson.
:1808... No congressman has ever become president. ...Until Madison.
:1812... No one can win without New York. ...But Madison did.
:1816... No candidate who doesn't wear a wig can get elected. ...Until Monroe was.
:1820... No one who wears pants instead of breeches can be reelected. ...But Monroe was.
:1824... No one has ever won without a popular majority. ...J.Q. Adams did.
:1828... Only people from Massachusetts and Virginia can win. ...Until Jackson did.
:1832... The only presidents who get reelected are Virginians. ...Until Jackson.
:1836... New Yorkers always lose. ...Until Van Buren.
:1840... No one over 65 has won the presidency. ...Until Harrison did.
:1844... No one who's lost his home state has won. ...But Polk did.
:1848... The Democrats don't lose when they win Pennsylvania. ...But they did in 1848.
:1852... New England Democrats can't win. ...Until Pierce did.
:1856... No one can become president without getting married. ...Until Buchanan did.
:1860... No one over 6'3" can get elected. ...Until Lincoln.
:1864... No one with a beard has been reelected. ...But Lincoln was.
:1868... No one can be president if their parent are alive. ...Until Grant.
:1872... No one with a beard has been reelected in peacetime. ...Until Grant was.
:1876... No one can win a majority of the popular vote and still lose. ...Tilden did.
:1880... As goes California, so goes the nation. ...Until it went Hancock.
:1884... Candidates named "James" can't lose. ...Until James Blaine.
:1888... No sitting president has been beaten since the Civil War. ...Cleveland was.
:1892... No former president has been elected. ...Until Cleveland.
:1896... Tall midwesterners are unbeatable. ...Bryan wasn't.
:1900... No Republican shorter than 5'8" has been reelected. ...Until McKinley was.
:1904... No one under 45 has become president. ...Roosevelt did.
:1908... No Republican who hasn't served in the military has won. ...Until Taft.
:1912... After Lincoln beat the Democrats while sporting a beard with no mustache, the only Democrats who can win have a mustache with no beard. ...Wilson had neither.
:1916... No Democrat has won without Indiana. ...Wilson did.
:1920... No incumbent senator has won. ...Until Harding.
:1924... No one with two Cs in their name has become president. ...Until Calvin Coolidge.
:1928... No one who got ten million votes has lost. ...Until Al Smith.
:1932... No Democrat has won since women secured the right to vote. ...Until FDR did.
:1936... No President's been reelected with double-digit unemployment. ...Until FDR was.
:1940... No one has won a third term. ...Until FDR did.
:1944... No Democrat has won during wartime. ...Until FDR did.
:1948... Democrats can't win without Alabama. ...Truman did.
:1952... No Republican has won without winning the House or Senate. ...Eisenhower did.
:1956... No Republican has won without Missouri. ...Until Eisenhower.
:1960... Republicans without facial hair are unbeatable. ...Kennedy beat Nixon.
:1964... No Democrat has won without Georgia. ...Johnson did.
:1968... No Republican vice president has risen to the Presidency through an election. ...Until Nixon.
:1972... No wartime candidate has won without Massachusetts. ...Until Nixon did.
:1976... No one who lost New Mexico has won. ...But Carter did.
:1980... No one has been elected President after a divorce. ...Until Reagan was.
:1984... No left-handed president has been reelected. ...Until Reagan was.
:1988... No Democrat who has won Wisconsin (without being from there) has lost. ...Until Dukakis did.
:1992... No Democrat has won without a majority of the Catholic vote. ...Until Clinton did.
:1996... No Dem. incumbent without combat experience has beaten someone whose first name is worth more in Scrabble. ...Until Bill beat Bob.
:2000... No Republican has won without Vermont. ...Until Bush did.
:2004... No Republican without combat experience has beaten someone two inches taller. ...Until Bush did.
:2008... No Democrat can win without Missouri. ...Until Obama did.
:2012... Democratic incumbents never beat taller challengers. ... Until Obama did.
:2016... No one has become president without government or military experience. ... Until Trump did. (No nominee whose first name contains a 'K' has lost.)
:2020? No one has won after being impeached.
:2020? No challenger with a website has won.

:[Caption below the comic]
:Congratulations to President-Elect Joe Biden for breaking the website curse!

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Statistics]]
[[Category:Politics]]
[[Category:Elections]]
[[Category:Comics featuring politicians]]
[[Category:Comics featuring John F. Kennedy]]
[[Category:Comics with color]]

259: Clichéd Exchanges

2017-10-25T13:41:23Z

162.158.92.100: /* Explanation */ Further remarks about é

{{comic
| number = 259
| date = May 9, 2007
| title = Clichéd Exchanges
| image = cliched exchanges.png
| titletext = It's like they say, you gotta fight fire with clichés.
}}

==Explanation==
Another entry into the [[My Hobby]] series.

"{{w|O RLY?}}" is an Internet meme typically used to express sarcastic agreement with or feigned surprise at a statement. The typical response to "O RLY" is usually "YA RLY", "NO WAI" or "SRSLY?" These exchanges are SMS abbreviations for "Oh really?", "Yeah really", "No way!", and "Seriously?" respectively.

However, [[Cueball]]'s response avoids this typical exchange, instead replying with another cliché, derived from a classic double entendre.

In this cliché, the speaker responds to a statement containing a word ending with '-er', and turns it into a sexual reference. The setup is as follows:

: '''Alan:''' ''"Do you want to come over to my house? My wife and I are playing poker."''
: '''Bob:''' ''"Poker? I hardly KNOW her!"''

Such a double entendre makes no sense in the context of an O RLY exchange. In the case of the comic, the non-sequitur will likely baffle the person on the left (Whiteface) and derail the conversation, to the amusement of the person on the right, Cueball/Randall. The reason [[Randall]] makes this a hobby is, presumably, that it bores him when people fall back on clichés for comedy, and he seeks inventive ways to humor himself in these situations. ''See, for example'', https://xkcd.com/16/.

The title text takes the real cliché "fight fire with fire," and combines it with the more literal "fight clichés with clichés." The resulting statement follows a very similar principle to the situation in the comic proper. Also, for some reason or another, the title of the page contains no 'é' character (Clichd Exchanges) and the title text contains <code>&amp;eacute;</code> instead of <code>&eacute;</code> which does not evaluate to é.

==Transcript==
:My Hobby:
:Derailing clichéd exchanges by using the wrong replies

:Friend: O RLY?
:Cueball: O RLY? I 'ardly know 'er!

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:My Hobby]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]

1397: Luke

2017-03-19T15:12:55Z

162.158.92.100: /* Explanation */ Not a child anymore!

{{comic
| number = 1397
| date = July 21, 2014
| title = Luke
| image = luke.png
| titletext = Don't turn it on.
}}

==Explanation==
This comic takes place in a [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDnoczxzQyg scene] from the third theatrically-released ''{{w|Star Wars}}'' movie, ''{{w|Return of the Jedi}}'', wherein {{w|Darth Vader}} confronts his son, {{w|Luke Skywalker}}, who had recently surrendered to {{w|Galactic Empire (Star Wars)|Imperial}} soldiers. In the movie Vader notes that Luke Skywalker has constructed a new {{w|lightsaber}} following the loss of his [[wikia:c:starwars:Luke skywalker#Lightsabers|original]] during their [[wikia:c:starwars:Duel on Cloud City|duel on Cloud City]], Luke Skywalker's original lightsaber actually having been {{w|Anakin Skywalker|Anakin Skywalker's}} second lightsaber, Anakin who later turned into Darth Vader.

In this comic, however, Darth Vader has accidentally discovered his son's {{w|Fleshlight}} (a male {{w|sex toy}} designed to imitate one of various orifices, most commonly a vagina), which he apparently brought with him on the [[wikia:c:starwars:Battle of Endor#The ground assault|attack]] on the {{w|Endor (Star Wars)|Forest Moon of Endor}}. From a certain angle, a Fleshlight could be mistaken for the handle of a lightsaber, without the blade extended. Like many teenagers, Luke Skywalker is attempting to hide evidence of his sexual activity from a parent. References to Fleshlight is a [[:Category:Fleshlights|recurring theme]] in xkcd.

The title text refers to the fact that if Darth Vader turned the Fleshlight on, instead of creating a blade of pure plasma or energy suspended in a force containment field the device would simply vibrate, revealing it for what it really is. [[Randall]] is also punning on "being turned on" as slang for being sexually aroused.

In [[1637: Salt Mine]], [[Ponytail]] makes a very similar remark to the one that Luke makes here.

==Transcript==
:[Darth Vader is holding up what appears to be the handle of a powered-down lightsaber looking down at it while talking to Luke Skywalker, drawn with thin hair hanging down his forehead.]
:Darth Vader: '''''I see you have constructed a new lightsaber.'''''
:Luke Skywalker: ...Yes.
:Luke Skywalker: That is definitely what I did.

:[Caption below the panel:]
:Vader finds Luke's Fleshlight.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Star Wars]]
[[Category:Fleshlights]]

759: 3x9

2017-01-29T13:31:21Z

162.158.92.100: /* Explanation */ Title text

{{comic
| number = 759
| date = June 28, 2010
| title = 3x9
| image = 3x9.png
| titletext = Handy exam trick: when you know the answer but not the correct derivation, derive blindly forward from the givens and backward from the answer, and join the chains once the equations start looking similar. Sometimes the graders don't notice the seam.
}}

==Explanation==
In college courses with a very large number of students (picture the huge, tiered, amphitheater-style lecture halls shown in any movie or TV show about college), teaching assistants are employed to help the professors grade student work. In math and science courses, students are expected to solve the problems and show their work as supporting evidence. Due to the high volume of work to grade, whether it's being done by the professor or a TA, the grader will get lazy and look for correct answers and the existence of work without checking that the work is accurate.

The math switches from √ being square root notation to it being division notation midway. That is an illegal operation. But the correct answer is reached anyway, because 27 is the correct answer to 3 × 9, 3√81, ''and'' 81 ÷ 3.

More generally, this pattern holds true for any number and its square; namely, 𝑥𝑦 = 𝑦² ÷ 𝑥 whenever 𝑦 = x²   (... namely, x*y = y^2/x whenever y=x^2) .

The title text describes another technique usable when you remember the answer but not the calculations. It requires modifying the equation and the answer at the same time, hoping that at one point they'll look similar. Some students picture every step in the calculations, others skip some, as they seem obvious to them. Merging the equations once they look similar may trick the examiner into thinking that the step between them is obvious to the student, even if he IS checking the calculations. The side effect (not mentioned) is that while doing this, you may actually realise what the calculations should be.

==Transcript==
:[A problem is given on an arithmetic test: "4) 3x9=?". In handwriting, the student's work follows. The student has accurately reformatted the question as 3 times the square root of 81, which visually resembles the long division problem of 3 divided into 81, and then solved the latter to get 27 — the correct answer to both.]

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Math]]

1461: Payloads

2017-01-28T22:28:45Z

162.158.92.100: /* Explanation */ Update on energy calculation

{{comic
| number = 1461
| date = December 17, 2014
| title = Payloads
| image = payloads.png
| titletext = With a space elevator, a backyard full of solar panels could launch about 500 horses per year, and a large power plant could launch 10 horses per minute.
}}

A larger version of the image can be found [http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/payloads_large.png here].

==Explanation==
This comic is an infographic representing the launch mass of various spacecraft and artificial satellites, and the {{w|Low Earth orbit|low Earth orbit}} payload capacity of various space launch vehicles. Rather than using standard units of mass such as kilograms or pounds, Randall has assigned values based on the mass of a horse. Based on cross checking researched masses and payloads with the number of horses depicted, it appears that one horse unit is defined as 450 kg (with an average of 432.82 kg), or perhaps 1000 lb. In cases where the mass is less than one horse, an alternative measure of dogs has been used, where one dog appears to be roughly 40 kg (with an average of 48.05 kg, or perhaps 100 lb.). In the case of {{w|Vanguard 1}}, even a dog is too large a measure, so instead the unit squirrel is used to represent its 1.47 kg (3.5 lb.?) mass.

The overall comic may be an allusion to {{w|horsepower}}, a similar-sounding but completely different concept. Horsepower is a measurement of {{w|power (physics)|power}} ({{w|work (physics)|work}} per unit time). Another commonly referenced unit for power is the {{w|watt}}. 1 horsepower is meant to be approximately the amount of power a horse can deliver. In contrast, Randall uses the horse to measure {{w|mass}} (of particular spacecraft, and of the maximum payload launch vehicles can carry).

The top pane of the comic (black background) shows the mass of various spacecraft, while the bottom (white background) shows the payload capacity (to low Earth orbit) of launch vehicles. Along the bottom of the image is a timeline, relating to the launch date of the entries.

There are also several joke insertions:
*T-Rex - A dinosaur, but fairly unlikely to be found orbiting Earth.
*Pegasus - An actual {{w|Pegasus (rocket)|launch vehicle}}, but also the name of a {{w|Pegasus|mythical flying stallion}}. The payload is given as "one Pegasus", which comes out to be slightly less than "one horse".
*Atlas-Centaur - Again, an actual {{w|Atlas-Centaur|launch vehicle}}, but also a reference to the half-human half-horse creatures of Greek mythology. The payload is given in "centaurs", which come out to be slightly more than "horses".
*1981 {{w|Oldsmobile}} - Not a launch vehicle, but in fact a car. The payload is given as 4 horses, which may relate to the carrying capacity (by weight) of the Oldsmobile, not the ability of an Oldsmobile to launch that payload into low Earth orbit. While there are no known examples of an Oldsmobile reaching low Earth orbit, {{w|The Blues Brothers (film)|The Blues Brothers}} movie shows an Oldsmobile performing a very, very long flight, and this might be the reason why Randall chose this specific car.

The Pegasus, 1981 Oldsmobile, and Stratolaunch spacecraft are depicted horizontally, because these vehicles launch from a horizontal starting position and use forward momentum to facilitate their launch.

An unlabelled launch vehicle is shown below the H-IIA near 2002. From the payload and date it is believed to represent the {{w|Delta IV#Delta IV Medium|Delta IV M}}. Whether its lack of labelling is intended or a mistake is unknown.

The title text refers to a favourite subject of Randall's - The {{w|space elevator}}. A space elevator is a (currently theoretical) mechanism for travelling into space, consisting of a very long (>35,000 km) cable and counterweight connected to the Earth at the equator. The cable rotates at the same rate as the earth, and thus appears stationary when viewed from earth. It is then possible to climb the cable into space, and even use it as a slingshot to launch vehicles.

In the title text, the amount of power required to lift a horse into space has been investigated, with the launch capacity of a backyard solar array and large power station compared. The orbit to launch horses is not precised, though; from the space elevator, the only circular orbit easily achievable is geostationary orbit, and getting into Low Earth Orbit is only slightly easier than without the elevator. Assuming the lowest stable orbit (that is, above the atmosphere), required power output of the solar array is about 315-350 kW and the power station at 3.3-3.7 GW.

===Tables===
The tables below contain data relating to each entry on the comic image.

*Name - Should be as shown in the comic
*Launch date - Date of first flight
*Mass/payload (horses) - Value as given in comic
*Mass/payload (kg) - Independently researched value

Where the researched launch date or mass/payload don't seem to match the comic, they should be identified with ?

{|
|- style="vertical-align:top;"
|
{| class="wikitable sortable"
!colspan="4"|Spacecraft mass
|-
!Spacecraft
!Launch date ''{{w|ISO 8601}}''
!Mass (horses)
!Mass (kg)
|-
|{{w|Sputnik 1|Sputnik}}[http://www.astronautix.com/craft/sputnik1.htm]
|1957-10-04
|2 Dogs
|83.6
|-
|{{w|Vanguard 1}}[http://www.astronautix.com/craft/vanuard1.htm]
|1958-03-17
|Squirrel
|1.47
|-
|{{w|Pioneer 5}}[http://www.astronautix.com/craft/pioneer5.htm]
|1960-03-11
|Large Dog
|43
|-
|{{w|Venera 1}}[http://www.astronautix.com/craft/venra1va.htm]
|1961-02-12
|1
|643.5
|-
|{{w|Mariner 2}}[http://www.astronautix.com/craft/marner12.htm]
|1962-08-27
|3 Dogs
|202.8
|-
|{{w|Apollo Command/Service Module|Apollo}}[http://www.astronautix.com/craft/apolocsm.htm]
|1964-05-28
|67
|30,329
|-
|{{w|Venera 7}}[http://www.astronautix.com/craft/ven3vv70.htm]
|1970-08-17
|3
|1,180
|-
|{{w|Pioneer 10}}[http://www.astronautix.com/craft/pior1011.htm]
|1972-03-03
|7 Dogs
|258.8
|-
|{{w|Skylab}}[http://www.astronautix.com/craft/skylab.htm]
|1973-05-14
|171
|77,088
|-
|{{w|Venera 9}}[http://www.astronautix.com/craft/venra4v1.htm]
|1975-06-08
|11
|4,936
|-
|{{w|Voyager 2}}[http://www.astronautix.com/craft/voyager.htm]
|1977-08-20
|2
|800
|-
|{{w|Space Shuttle|Shuttle (Total)}}[http://www.braeunig.us/space/specs/orbiter.htm]
|1981-04-12
|206
|104,328?
|-
|{{w|Space Shuttle|Shuttle (Payload)}}
|1981-04-12
|54
|24,400
|-
|{{w|Mir}}
|1986-02-20
|288
|129,700
|-
|T-Rex
|N/A
|15
|6,800
|-
|{{w|Hubble}}[http://www.astronautix.com/craft/hst.htm]
|1990-04-24
|25
|11,110
|-
|{{w|Compton Gamma Ray Observatory}}[http://www.astronautix.com/craft/gro.htm]
|1991-04-05
|38
|17,000
|-
|{{w|Corona (satellite)|Keyhole 3}}†
|1961
|40
|1150
|-
|{{w|International Space Station}}
|1998
|932
|450,000
|-
|{{w|Cassini-Huygens|Cassini}}
|1997-10-15
|11
|5,300
|-
|{{w|Huygens (spacecraft)|Huygens Lander}}
|1997-10-15
|1
|319
|-
|{{w|Rosetta (spacecraft)|Rosetta}}
|2004-03-02
|6
|2,900
|-
|{{w|Opportunity (rover)|Opportunity}}
|2003-07-07
|5 Dogs
|185
|-
|{{w|Dawn (spacecraft)|Dawn}}[http://www.astronautix.com/craft/dawn.htm]
|2007-09-27
|3
|1,240
|-
|{{w|TerreStar-1|Terrastar}}*
|2009-07-01
|15
|6,910
|-
|{{w|Dragon (spacecraft)|Dragon}}[http://www.astronautix.com/craft/dragon.htm]
|2010-06-04
|17
|8,000
|-
|{{w|Tiangong-1}}
|2011-09-29
|19
|8,506
|-
|{{w|Curiosity (rover)|Curiosity}}
|2011-11-26
|2
|900
|-
|{{w|KH-7 Gambit|Keyhole 7}}†
|1963-07-12
|40
|2000
|-
|{{w|Orion (spacecraft)|Orion (Capsule)}}
|2014-12-05
|20
|8,913
|-
|{{w|James Webb Space Telescope|James Webb Telescope}}
|2018-08 (Projected)
|14
|6,200
|-
|{{w|Orion (spacecraft)|Orion}}
|2014-12-05
|20
|8,913
|-
|{{w|Orion Service Module}}
|2017 (Projected)
|25
|12,000
|-
|{{w|Deep Space Habitat|Orion Deep Space Habitat}}
|2021 (Projected)
|65
|28,750 & 45,573
|}
<nowiki>*</nowiki>Terrastar is believed to be a misspelling of {{w|TerreStar-1|TerreStar}}, based on its mass and launch date.

<nowiki>†</nowiki>Keyhole 3 and 7 seem to be errors; Keyhole 3 satellites were launched between 1961 and 1962 and Keyhole 7 between 1963 and 1967. 
The dates and masses in the comic more closely correspond to the {{w|KH-11 Kennan|Keyhole 11}}.
|

{| class="wikitable sortable"
!colspan="4"|Launch vehicle capacity
|-
!Spacecraft
!Launch date ''{{w|ISO 8601}}''
!Payload (horses)
!Payload (kg)
|-
|{{w|Sputnik (rocket)|Sputnik Launcher}}[http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/spuk71ps.htm]
|1957-10-04
|1
|500
|-
|{{w|Thor-Able|Thor}}
|1958-04-24
|3 Dogs
|120
|-
|{{w|Mercury-Atlas}}
|1960-07-29
|3
|1,360
|-
|{{w|Saturn I}}
|1961-10-27
|20
|9,070
|-
|{{w|Proton-K}}[http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/protonk.htm]
|1967-03-10?
|44
|19,760
|-
|{{w|Atlas-Centaur}}[http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/atlntaur.htm]
|1962-05-08
|8 Centaurs
|3,630
|-
|{{w|Titan IIIA}}
|1964-09-01
|7
|3,100
|-
|{{w|Saturn IB}}
|1966-02-26
|45
|21,000
|-
|{{w|Soyuz (rocket)|Soyuz}}
|1966-11-28
|14
|6,450
|-
|{{w|Saturn V}}
|1967-11-09
|262
|118,000
|-
|{{w|Black Arrow}}
|1969-06-27
|4 Dogs
|135
|-
|{{w|N1 (rocket)|N1}}
|1969-02-21
|211
|90,000?
|-
|{{w|Long March 1}}
|1969-11-16
|2
|300*
|-
|{{w|N-I (rocket)|N-I}}
|1975-09-09
|4
|1,200?
|-
|{{w|Delta 0100|Delta 0900}}
|1972-07-23
|3
|1,300
|-
|{{w|Ariane 1}}
|1979-12-24
|3
|1,400
|-
|{{w|Satellite Launch Vehicle|SLV}}
|1979-08-10
|1 Dog
|40
|-
|{{w|N-II (rocket)|N-II}}
|1981-02-11
|4
|2,000
|-
|{{w|Oldsmobile#1970s-1980s|1981 Oldsmobile}}
|1981
|4
|N/A (Model dependent)
|-
|{{w|ASLV}}
|1987-03-24
|4 Dogs
|150
|-
|{{w|Long March 4A}}
|1988-09-06
|9
|4,000
|-
|{{w|Ariane 4}}
|1988-06-15
|16
|5,000-7,600?
|-
|{{w|Shavit}}
|1988-09-19
|6 Dogs
|350-800?
|-
|{{w|Energia}}
|1987-05-15
|218
|100,000*
|-
|{{w|Pegasus (rocket)|Pegasus}}
|1990-04-05
|1 Pegasus
|443
|-
|{{w|Atlas I}}[http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/atlasi.htm]
|1990-07-25
|13
|3,630?
|-
|{{w|PSLV}}
|1993-09-20
|8
|3250
|-
|{{w|J-I}}[http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/j1.htm]
|1996-02-11
|2
|850
|-
|{{w|Long March 3B}}
|1996-02-14
|27
|12,000
|-
|{{w|H-IIA}}
|2001-08-29
|22
|10,000
|-
|(unlabelled) {{w|Delta IV#Delta IV Medium|Delta IV M}}?*
|2002-09-20
|21
|4200-6882
|-
|{{w|Delta IV Heavy|Delta IV-H}}[http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/delheavy.htm]
|2004-12-21
|64
|28,790
|-
|{{w|Falcon 1}}
|2006-03-24
|1
|670 (Proposed)
|-
|{{w|Ariane 5#Variants|Ariane 5ES}}[http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/arine5es.htm]
|2008-03-09
|47
|21,000
|-
|{{w|H-IIB}}
|2009-09-10
|37
|19,000?
|-
|{{w|Unha}}
|2009-04-05
|2 Dogs
|100[http://www.ucsusa.org/sites/default/files/legacy/assets/documents/nwgs/Wright-Analysis-of-NK-launcher-3-18-09.pdf]
|-
|{{w|Atlas V|Atlas V 541}}
|2011-11-26
|38
|17,443[http://www.lockheedmartin.com/data/assets/ssc/cls/AVUG_Rev11_March2010.pdf]
|-
|{{w|Falcon 9}}
|2013-09-29
|29
|13,150
|-
|{{w|Antares (rocket)|Antares}}
|2013-04-21
|14
|6,120
|-
|{{w|Stratolaunch carrier aircraft|Stratolaunch}}
|2016 (Projected)
|14
|6,100
|-
|{{w|Falcon Heavy}}
|2015 (Projected)
|118
|53,000
|-
|{{w|Space Launch System|SLS Block 1}}
|2018-11 (Projected)
|156
|70,000[http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/664158main_sls_fs_master.pdf]
|-
|{{w|Space Launch System|SLS Block 1B}}
|2021 (Projected)
|217
|100,000?
|-
|{{w|Space Launch System|SLS Block 2}}
| 2030's (Projected)
|289
|130,000[http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/664158main_sls_fs_master.pdf]
|}

*The unlabelled launch vehicle is believed to be the Delta IV M, based on its payload and date.
|}

==Transcript==
:[This is one of the very large drawings that needs to be clicked in order to get to the full version. As in other cases like this, here will only be a transcript of the text readable in the smaller version on the main page, as it is shown at the top. A full transcript will be relegated to a sub page in the near future? If this happens it can be found here: [[1461: Payloads/Transcript]].]

:[The comic is divided in two main sections the top third of the comic being black and the bottom section white. At the very bottom is a timeline in a black border along the bottom.In the two black sections the readable text is white and in the white it is of course black. All the smaller print that is completely unreadable in the small version is in red, and the text is clearly visible but not discernible.]

:[The first black section has the following readable title at the top left corner:]
:Spacecraft mass
:Measured in horses

:[Below and right of this are several small white horses drawn (almost impossible to see it is horses, but it is clearly not just white dots. To begin with there are less than a full horse, but then there are so many horses that they are divided into compartments that forms squares of five times five horses, which again when there are more than 50 is stacked two next to each other and then the rest on top, filling entire rows of ten over two squares. When over 100 they form four squares in a two by two format. And then two extra squares are added for every 50 extra horses, and those above 100 will then be added in columns of 10. This goes on all the way from left to right except for one spacecraft which is clearly the space-shuttle as the horses are stacked in the shape of the shuttle, and in the center of the shuttle (where the shuttles payload goes) the horses are drawn in light gray rather than white. One section is very huge - almost 1000 horses and must clearly be the international space station, and knowing this you may be able to read it in this small version. After this there are six smaller groups of horses. Then there is a black part of the section and then three more, one of which is somewhat larger than all other after the ISS. These four groups of horses are in a dark gray shade, because they are in the future (according to the time scale below). Near each of all these 32 spacecrafts there is a red label. (A 33 label is near the payload of the space-shuttle which thus have two). None of these can be read here].

:[The next white section has the following readable title at the top left corner, where the second line in brackets is not really readable (but included here nevertheless to make this transcript a bit useful):]
:Launch vehicle capacity
:(Payloads to low earth orbit)
:Measured in horses

:[Below and right of this are several small black horses drawn (just as above). They are again stacked in squares of columns of five horses in each column, if there are more than five horses. When there are more than 25 horses a five by five square will again be used, and for more than a hundred it will again be four squares of 25 in a two by two stack. However here further horses will be stacked on top of each other to form a high column, and on top of these columns there will be inserted the tip of the rocket (vehicle). When the top row (or column) is not filled out, the tip is either deeper where there is no horses in the top row, or longer down if there is not enough horses in the right column. so there will not be a "hole" in the rocket where there are no horses. Below the horses there are slim rectangles below which there is a rocket engine (or more) from which exhaust flame(s) will be emanating. For the smallest rockets up to all rockets with less than 100 horses there is just one. For rockets with two columns of 25 squares (and thus more than 100 horses), there will have at least two engines shown and from all but two of these six rockets there will be shown three rather than just two flames (which is the case in the last). This indicates that those rockets must have at least three engines, one of which is behind the two in front, and in the middle between them, so the three flames are seen next to each other. The three engines must form a triangle seen from below. There is also one with no flames visible, see below. The first of those set in the future to the right is the one with only two flames. The first few rockets are very small, but then quickly they get bigger. After the first plus 100 horses rocket (which have more than 250 horses) there is a rocket of similar size that is lower than the other and the horses are drawn in very light gray color. The engines can only partly be seen and there is not fire. Seems like this rocket never took off, but again not readable. After this there are five very small rockets and then something that looks very different with a line curving up behind it as the vehicle starts to move horizontally. It does not look like a rocket and there is no clear engine and no fire, it rather looks like a car... Then below this and further left five more smaller rockets in differing sizes and then another large with more than 200 horses. After this at it's top there is the first rocket that flies horizontally, it is very small. Below and the to the left are three smaller rockets. Then follows a hole string of 11 rockets almost all with more than 20 horses, but none with more than 75. Six of them have more than 25 and only two are tiny. The last five rockets are set in the future and are thus in gray, both horse and the tip and engine. The first is the only second rocket to fly horizontally and it has 15 horses. The other four rockets are much bigger and the last us the largest with almost 300 horses. The other three back towards the present have more than 200, more than 150 and more than 100 respectively. The last mentioned with more than 100 is the one with only two engines and two exhaust fires. Near each of all these 42 rockets (and one car) there is a red label.]

:[At the bottom is the second black section which is just a thing border, but on this is a time-line in white with white labels. The line has six divisions ticks and before the first of these tick to the left where the line begins, between each set of ticks where the line is also broken, and after the line ends to the right there is a year range given or other label at the end:]
:1950s
:1960s
:1970s
:1980s
:1990s
:2000s
:Future

:[Now go read (or write) the [[1461: Payloads/Transcript|full transcript]] for the large version of the comic.]

==Trivia==
*It is actually embarrassing for explain xkcd, but in the [https://xkcd.com/1461/info.0.json official transcript] for this comic on xkcd it actually says:
**(( This comic is an infographic. A very good transcription is available in complete form here: http:\n\nwww.explainxkcd.com\nwiki\nindex.php\n1461 ))
***The link translates into http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1461:_Payloads (the one for this page) when the "\n" is turned into "/".
**Why is this embarrassing?
***Because more than two years after the release of this comic, there have never been a "[[#Transcript|real transcript]]" on this page.
***A small one only for the small version seen above was inserted along with this trivia item.
**However the tables (which is a kind of transcript) was filled out already within two days of the release, and those are probably what Randall referred too.
***And nice to know that Randall keeps track of what's happens on this page, when he can use the pages extreme details.
****Anyone who knows if Randall has referred directly to Explain xkcd before like this or in any other way?
*In July 2014 about half a year before this comic, a horse was send to the [http://poorlydrawnlines.com/comic/earth-and-moon/ Moon by the Earth] in the web comic {{w|Poorly Drawn Lines}}.
**It is not much to do with this comic, and horse powers are already used to measure a cars strength, but it could have given Randall the inspiration for measuring rockets lifting power in horse mass.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics with color]]
[[Category:Large drawings]]
[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Space]]
[[Category:Space probes]]
[[Category:Telescopes]]
[[Category:Mars rovers]]

Talk:1461: Payloads

2017-01-28T22:22:42Z

162.158.92.100: Moving my own comment to correct place

It's possible he's talking about [http://poorlydrawnlines.com/comic/earth-and-moon/ this comic].
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.203|108.162.249.203]] 07:20, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

I think he used horses as a reference to the unit of work, horse power, but in this case instead of being the 550 foot pounds per second, it is the force required to put a horse at that altitude
[[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.195|199.27.128.195]] 08:10, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
:The top one clearly says "Spacecraft mass" and the bottom says "Capacity" (which is normally either the mass or volume something can hold), so I don't think either refers to force. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.175|173.245.54.175]] 08:32, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Horses might also be used as a length unit... I am wondering if this is somehow related to the size of SRBs [http://www.snopes.com/history/american/gauge.asp] ;-) {{unsigned|Ld75}}
:There is the famous tail (no pun intended) of how the width of the Space Shuttles SRBs are related to the width of a horses, er, um, butt -- which apparently is not true. However, similarly to the "Upgoer Five", Randall may just be trying to relate a very difficult to grasp concept (weight of a huge object) to something that with which a large number of people may be familiar. [[User:Jarod997|Jarod997]] ([[User talk:Jarod997|talk]]) 14:34, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

A few mass calculations: (All masses from wikipedia)

* ISS - 450,000 kg / 932 Horses = 483 kg/Horse
* Skylab - 77,088 kg / 171 Horses = 450 kg/Horse
* Mir - 129,700 kg / 286 Horses = 453 kg/Horse
* Shuttle Payload - 24,400 kg / 54 Horses = 452 kg/Horse
* Compton GRO - 17,000 kg / 38 Horses = 447 kg/Horse

It looks like Randall probably used 450kg as a standard horse, which seems like a fairly average weight for a {{w|Horse#Size and Measurement|horse}}. --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 09:06, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Curious: the Atlas-Centaur rocket is listed as lifting Centaurs, not horses. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.244|141.101.98.244]] 09:11, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

:Plus the Pegasus rocket is labelled as lifting one (mythical, horse-sized?) Pegasus. I took this as synchronicity, but currently someone (who missed the Centaur reference in the part of the main text about "joke additions/deviations") who edited the the main text seems to think that it's purely a mythical reference. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.245|141.101.98.245]] 13:27, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

The Keyhole captions are wrong; assuming 450 kg/horse, 40 horses for the [[wikipedia:KH-7 Gambit|Keyhole 7]] would be around 18,000 kg. Documents declassified a couple of years ago give the mass as around 2,000 kg. The [[wikipedia:Corona (satellite)|Keyhole 3]] was even smaller. The mass and dates are about right for [[wikipedia:KH-11 Kennan|Keyhole 11]] satellites but I don't know where the 3 and 7 have come from (the dates are wrong for the third and seventh Keyhole 11s) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.85|141.101.99.85]] 09:43, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Initially I thought that the position of 'T Rex' along the X axis (approx 1985) may be a link to the band {{w|T. Rex (band)|T.Rex}}, but according to wiki that was 1967-1977. I guess it could be a random date, but thats not usually Randall's style... --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 10:51, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
:The T Rex "Sue" was discovered in August 1990. Not quite right, either. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.250.214|108.162.250.214]] 11:10, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
::Perhaps a reference to the date of 'Jurassic Park'? Not sure exactly when that came out but I think it's in the right range. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.189|108.162.238.189]] 14:55, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
:::Hadn't thought of that.. Though after checking, {{w|Jurassic Park}} was released 1993, and I believe set in 1990. Still doesn't seem to tie up.. --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 15:22, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
::::I never knew there was ever a space craft called "T-Rex". Learn something new everyday! ;) {{unsigned|Dangerkeith3000}}

The Oldsmobile is probably a reference to the movie ''{{w|Mom and Dad Save the World}}''. The title characters' station wagon was from around that era -- and it ''did'' go into space in the movie. --[[User:Aaron of Mpls|Aaron of Mpls]] ([[User talk:Aaron of Mpls|talk]]) 11:47, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

'''Terrastar''' may be referring to [[wikipedia:TerreStar-1|TerreStar-1]], with a launch mass of 6,910 kg, divided by 15 horses is about 460 kg/Horse. This is consistent with the above calculations. [[User:Jarod997|Jarod997]] ([[User talk:Jarod997|talk]]) 14:23, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
:Based on that and its accurate position on the X axis, I would agree with you. I've added it to the table, with a note below. --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 14:38, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

'''Thor''' may be referring to the [[wikipedia:Thor-Able|Thor-Able]] launch vehicle. First flight of 1958 (good position on the graph), and payload of 120 kg is about 40 kg / dog -- that's a bit high for an average, but depending on the breed it could be accurate. [[User:Jarod997|Jarod997]] ([[User talk:Jarod997|talk]]) 14:58, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
:Yes, I believe that is correct. Added to tables. --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 15:22, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Based on horse payload, location on X-axis (time of first launch?), and some general wikipedia browsing, I believe the unlabeled launch vehicle on the bottom is a Delta IV Medium. According to Wikipedia, it was first launched on 11 March 2003, which fits the location on the timeline. It had an LEO payload capacity of 9,420 kg, which equates to 20.9333333 horses at the estimation of 450kg/horse. For reference, all my information was pulled from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_IV#Delta_IV_Medium. [[User:Screamsquad|Screamsquad]] ([[User talk:Screamsquad|talk]]) 16:20, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
:Certainly seems a likely candidate..--[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 17:08, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

;Title Text Calcs

I did some calculations on the title text, though I'm not sure how correct they are. We can use our standard horse at 450kg, and assuming 9.81m/s2 gravity (neglecting the slight drop in gravity as it moves up the space elevator), the formula I've used is:

<pre>1 Watt = 1 Newton raised 1 Metre in 1 Sec
Power[Watts] = (450[kg] * 9.81[m/s2]) * LEO[m] / Time[s]</pre>

A large power station is a pretty vague measure, but I would guess we are looking at around 1GW. I found a 30 acre solar farm (in the not-so-sunny UK) with an output of 5MW, scaled linearly (which may well not be valid) a 0.6 acre (2500m2 back yard could yield 93.5kW. Using these power guesstimates, we can calculate the altitude at which the 500 horses/year and 10 horses/minute converge. It works out at roughly 1350km. Depending on where you look, LEO is [https://www.google.com/search?q=Low+earth+orbit&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-gb%3AIE-SearchBox&oe=UTF-8&gfe_rd=cr&gws_rd=ssl&oq=&gs_l= classified as anything under 2000km].

Now I know there are a lot of assumptions in there, and really the whole formula is backwards, but hey... its a starting point! --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 17:05, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

I think Randall may have been talking to Andrew Hussie --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.106.89|141.101.106.89]] 21:50, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

https://what-if.xkcd.com/58/
Getting to space is easy, staying in space is hard.

The energy required to get to 100km, briefly, is about 1 MJ/kg
The energy required to stay in low earth orbit is a bit over 30 MJ/kg

It's tricky to get to low earth orbit with a space elevator, you can go up 200km, but as soon as you let go of the elevator you come down. If you put enough mass at 200km the whole elevator comes down. Not sure which number to use, but I'd go with the 30 MJ/kg, or 15 GJ/horse. So the solar array is about 240kW (averaged over the whole year) and the power plant is 2.5GW. This looks a bit high so maybe the horses don't stay in orbit.

--[[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.248|108.162.219.248]] 15:49, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

:It depends on what he means by launch I suppose. I had simply looked at getting to LEO altitude, but staying there once you let go of the cable is a whole different ball game. I believe the only way to get into orbit from a space elevator (lacking additional power) is to go right to geostationary height? Let go anywhere under that altitude and you go into orbital decay.

:Out of interest, where did you get the 1MJ/kg and 30MJ/kg values? As far as power stations, the new generation twin reactor {{w|Hinkley Point C nuclear power station}} (only know that one because its local to me) is designed to output 3.2GW, so 2.5GW isn't over the top. I would say that 240kW for aback yard solar farm is pretty large, depending on your location and size of back yard. --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 17:11, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

::1MJ/kg comes from mgh for 1kg at 100km we get 9.81 * 100,000 
::30MJ/kg comes from 1/2 mv^2 I happen to know that orbital velocity is about 8km/s so 1/2*8000^2 = 32,000,000

::Normally I'd say close enough for goverment work, but in this case NASA probably uses a bit more precision. If you want to be more precision, visit wikipedia "specific orbital energy" and "circular orbit".

::If we release a horse from the space elevator at any altitude it will be in orbit, at least until it contacts the earth's atmosphere. It turns out that if we release it at 30,000km (from the earths center = 23,600km altitude) then at perigee the altitude is 100km. High enough that a horse would stay in orbit for a while. Releasing 750 km higher raises perigee to 1000km altitude. So we don't have to go all the way to geostationary orbit, just high enough. But still 23,000km is not LEO.

::--[[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.248|108.162.219.248]] 04:32, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

:::Ok, I'm just about following you I think! So assuming we are launching to orbit, we have to get to 23,600km, at which point gravity is considerably reduced. We definately have to take into account {{w|Space elevator#Apparent gravitational field|change in gravity}} as our horses move up the cable.

:::I did some maths, and I believe it takes 19.9GJ to get a 450kg horse to 23,600km. That is essentially mgh, but taking into account the change in gravity. At 1 Watt, thats gonna take 631 years. Our 500 horses per year solar plant needs to output 315kW ([http://www.solardaily.com/reports/Independence_Solar_Completes_300_kW_Rooftop_Solar_Array_999.html 300kW solar array on a roof for reference]). Our 10 horses per minute power station would need to output 3.32GW, so a decent nuclear facility. Once the Three Gorges Dam in China is running at full capacity (22.5GW), it could be launching 68 horses per minute. Running constantly at full capacity, we could rid the world of horses (est 58 million) in under two years. --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 11:09, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

:::I confirmed the height of 23 600 km with my own calculations; my result is about 189 km altitude at perigeum, and 996 km for 24 350 km (750 km higher, as you wrote). My code seems consistent as entering geostationary orbit altitude results in geostationary orbit. Anyway, I think that 19.9 GJ is slightly wrong - [http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=G*earth+mass*450+kg+*+(1%2Fearth+radius-1%2F(earth+radius%2B23600km)) I entered it into Wolfram], and it showet a little more. This results in 350 kW and 3.7 GW for backyard solar panels and power plant, respectively. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.92.100|162.158.92.100]] 22:20, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

I filled out the remaining fields. I thought about getting the interior capacities of all 1981 Oldsmobile models but doesn't seem worth it. It's clearly a joke so that kind of research doesn't seem necessary.{{unsigned ip|173.245.56.152}}

'''Arrow of Time'''
Did anyone else notice the special advert for Xmas gifts? It was up at the top of the main xkcd page yesterday 2014-December-17, but gone today (the 18th). In black, blue and red colored printing it said:
----
"The XKCD store Christmas shipping deadline is Friday! 
Once it passes, there is no going back. The arrow of time drags us all 
inexorably forward toward decay and disorder toward the end of all things. 
Toward the empty silence of the grave. ORDER NOW!"
----
I thought it was amusing and saved a bitmap. Was kind of surprised that there was no other mention of this here, or on the fora either. {{unsigned ip|108.162.216.171}}

:I did notice it too, though I've always been a bit disappointed by the limited range of T-shirt comics. None of my favourites are on there. As far as this page mentioning it, it isn't relevant to the comic, so doesn't belong on this page. I don't know of a page on explainxkcd where it would really fit in. --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 11:18, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

::Why not make your own? Here is a fridge magnet, it wasn't too hard to figure out the design tools, [http://www.cafepress.com/cp/customize/product2.aspx?from=CustomDesigner&number=1027311439 Duty Calls magnet] Actual size is a little over 2" x 3" (50 x 75mm)--one problem with the design tools is figuring out the final size for some items. Based on my understanding of the CC license, I have not sold these, but I have given a few to friends. Edit--when something I want is in the XKCD store, of course I buy it there so Randall gets the cash. For example, the large poster sized version of Money on the wall in front of me now came from the XKCD store. It would be really cool if Randall made this fridge magnet (or something similar) available on his site.{{unsigned ip|‎108.162.216.171}}

:::I guess part of the reason is that I like the idea of Randall getting the cash from my purchase. --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 14:04, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

----
Actually, I find it strange that no explicit mention of Laika or Sputnik 2 is made. --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.75.89|141.101.75.89]] 23:50, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure this has nothing to do with dimensional analysis. Who wrote that part? have you ever actually done dimensional analysis? He's just using a nonstandard unit of measure. Unit conversion is almost -but not entirely- unlike dimensional analysis. {{unsigned ip|108.162.241.5}}

----

What's with the mass of squirrel? Apart from marmots, any squirrel weighs way less than a kilogram! {{unsigned ip|108.162.253.150}}

The T-Rex entry may refer to the Wankel Rex or Devil Rex discovered in 1988. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specimens_of_Tyrannosaurus#.22Wankel_Rex_or_Devil_Rex.22:_MOR_555
PaperDragon-CA [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.89|108.162.216.89]] 17:57, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Talk:1461: Payloads

2017-01-28T22:20:03Z

162.158.92.100: Confirmation/correction of calculations

It's possible he's talking about [http://poorlydrawnlines.com/comic/earth-and-moon/ this comic].
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.203|108.162.249.203]] 07:20, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

I think he used horses as a reference to the unit of work, horse power, but in this case instead of being the 550 foot pounds per second, it is the force required to put a horse at that altitude
[[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.195|199.27.128.195]] 08:10, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
:The top one clearly says "Spacecraft mass" and the bottom says "Capacity" (which is normally either the mass or volume something can hold), so I don't think either refers to force. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.175|173.245.54.175]] 08:32, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Horses might also be used as a length unit... I am wondering if this is somehow related to the size of SRBs [http://www.snopes.com/history/american/gauge.asp] ;-) {{unsigned|Ld75}}
:There is the famous tail (no pun intended) of how the width of the Space Shuttles SRBs are related to the width of a horses, er, um, butt -- which apparently is not true. However, similarly to the "Upgoer Five", Randall may just be trying to relate a very difficult to grasp concept (weight of a huge object) to something that with which a large number of people may be familiar. [[User:Jarod997|Jarod997]] ([[User talk:Jarod997|talk]]) 14:34, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

A few mass calculations: (All masses from wikipedia)

* ISS - 450,000 kg / 932 Horses = 483 kg/Horse
* Skylab - 77,088 kg / 171 Horses = 450 kg/Horse
* Mir - 129,700 kg / 286 Horses = 453 kg/Horse
* Shuttle Payload - 24,400 kg / 54 Horses = 452 kg/Horse
* Compton GRO - 17,000 kg / 38 Horses = 447 kg/Horse

It looks like Randall probably used 450kg as a standard horse, which seems like a fairly average weight for a {{w|Horse#Size and Measurement|horse}}. --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 09:06, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Curious: the Atlas-Centaur rocket is listed as lifting Centaurs, not horses. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.244|141.101.98.244]] 09:11, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

:Plus the Pegasus rocket is labelled as lifting one (mythical, horse-sized?) Pegasus. I took this as synchronicity, but currently someone (who missed the Centaur reference in the part of the main text about "joke additions/deviations") who edited the the main text seems to think that it's purely a mythical reference. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.245|141.101.98.245]] 13:27, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

The Keyhole captions are wrong; assuming 450 kg/horse, 40 horses for the [[wikipedia:KH-7 Gambit|Keyhole 7]] would be around 18,000 kg. Documents declassified a couple of years ago give the mass as around 2,000 kg. The [[wikipedia:Corona (satellite)|Keyhole 3]] was even smaller. The mass and dates are about right for [[wikipedia:KH-11 Kennan|Keyhole 11]] satellites but I don't know where the 3 and 7 have come from (the dates are wrong for the third and seventh Keyhole 11s) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.85|141.101.99.85]] 09:43, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Initially I thought that the position of 'T Rex' along the X axis (approx 1985) may be a link to the band {{w|T. Rex (band)|T.Rex}}, but according to wiki that was 1967-1977. I guess it could be a random date, but thats not usually Randall's style... --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 10:51, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
:The T Rex "Sue" was discovered in August 1990. Not quite right, either. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.250.214|108.162.250.214]] 11:10, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
::Perhaps a reference to the date of 'Jurassic Park'? Not sure exactly when that came out but I think it's in the right range. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.189|108.162.238.189]] 14:55, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
:::Hadn't thought of that.. Though after checking, {{w|Jurassic Park}} was released 1993, and I believe set in 1990. Still doesn't seem to tie up.. --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 15:22, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
::::I never knew there was ever a space craft called "T-Rex". Learn something new everyday! ;) {{unsigned|Dangerkeith3000}}

The Oldsmobile is probably a reference to the movie ''{{w|Mom and Dad Save the World}}''. The title characters' station wagon was from around that era -- and it ''did'' go into space in the movie. --[[User:Aaron of Mpls|Aaron of Mpls]] ([[User talk:Aaron of Mpls|talk]]) 11:47, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

'''Terrastar''' may be referring to [[wikipedia:TerreStar-1|TerreStar-1]], with a launch mass of 6,910 kg, divided by 15 horses is about 460 kg/Horse. This is consistent with the above calculations. [[User:Jarod997|Jarod997]] ([[User talk:Jarod997|talk]]) 14:23, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
:Based on that and its accurate position on the X axis, I would agree with you. I've added it to the table, with a note below. --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 14:38, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

'''Thor''' may be referring to the [[wikipedia:Thor-Able|Thor-Able]] launch vehicle. First flight of 1958 (good position on the graph), and payload of 120 kg is about 40 kg / dog -- that's a bit high for an average, but depending on the breed it could be accurate. [[User:Jarod997|Jarod997]] ([[User talk:Jarod997|talk]]) 14:58, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
:Yes, I believe that is correct. Added to tables. --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 15:22, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Based on horse payload, location on X-axis (time of first launch?), and some general wikipedia browsing, I believe the unlabeled launch vehicle on the bottom is a Delta IV Medium. According to Wikipedia, it was first launched on 11 March 2003, which fits the location on the timeline. It had an LEO payload capacity of 9,420 kg, which equates to 20.9333333 horses at the estimation of 450kg/horse. For reference, all my information was pulled from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_IV#Delta_IV_Medium. [[User:Screamsquad|Screamsquad]] ([[User talk:Screamsquad|talk]]) 16:20, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
:Certainly seems a likely candidate..--[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 17:08, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

;Title Text Calcs

I did some calculations on the title text, though I'm not sure how correct they are. We can use our standard horse at 450kg, and assuming 9.81m/s2 gravity (neglecting the slight drop in gravity as it moves up the space elevator), the formula I've used is:

<pre>1 Watt = 1 Newton raised 1 Metre in 1 Sec
Power[Watts] = (450[kg] * 9.81[m/s2]) * LEO[m] / Time[s]</pre>

A large power station is a pretty vague measure, but I would guess we are looking at around 1GW. I found a 30 acre solar farm (in the not-so-sunny UK) with an output of 5MW, scaled linearly (which may well not be valid) a 0.6 acre (2500m2 back yard could yield 93.5kW. Using these power guesstimates, we can calculate the altitude at which the 500 horses/year and 10 horses/minute converge. It works out at roughly 1350km. Depending on where you look, LEO is [https://www.google.com/search?q=Low+earth+orbit&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-gb%3AIE-SearchBox&oe=UTF-8&gfe_rd=cr&gws_rd=ssl&oq=&gs_l= classified as anything under 2000km].

Now I know there are a lot of assumptions in there, and really the whole formula is backwards, but hey... its a starting point! --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 17:05, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

I think Randall may have been talking to Andrew Hussie --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.106.89|141.101.106.89]] 21:50, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

https://what-if.xkcd.com/58/
Getting to space is easy, staying in space is hard.

The energy required to get to 100km, briefly, is about 1 MJ/kg
The energy required to stay in low earth orbit is a bit over 30 MJ/kg

It's tricky to get to low earth orbit with a space elevator, you can go up 200km, but as soon as you let go of the elevator you come down. If you put enough mass at 200km the whole elevator comes down. Not sure which number to use, but I'd go with the 30 MJ/kg, or 15 GJ/horse. So the solar array is about 240kW (averaged over the whole year) and the power plant is 2.5GW. This looks a bit high so maybe the horses don't stay in orbit.

--[[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.248|108.162.219.248]] 15:49, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

:It depends on what he means by launch I suppose. I had simply looked at getting to LEO altitude, but staying there once you let go of the cable is a whole different ball game. I believe the only way to get into orbit from a space elevator (lacking additional power) is to go right to geostationary height? Let go anywhere under that altitude and you go into orbital decay.

:Out of interest, where did you get the 1MJ/kg and 30MJ/kg values? As far as power stations, the new generation twin reactor {{w|Hinkley Point C nuclear power station}} (only know that one because its local to me) is designed to output 3.2GW, so 2.5GW isn't over the top. I would say that 240kW for aback yard solar farm is pretty large, depending on your location and size of back yard. --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 17:11, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

::1MJ/kg comes from mgh for 1kg at 100km we get 9.81 * 100,000 
::30MJ/kg comes from 1/2 mv^2 I happen to know that orbital velocity is about 8km/s so 1/2*8000^2 = 32,000,000

::Normally I'd say close enough for goverment work, but in this case NASA probably uses a bit more precision. If you want to be more precision, visit wikipedia "specific orbital energy" and "circular orbit".

::If we release a horse from the space elevator at any altitude it will be in orbit, at least until it contacts the earth's atmosphere. It turns out that if we release it at 30,000km (from the earths center = 23,600km altitude) then at perigee the altitude is 100km. High enough that a horse would stay in orbit for a while. Releasing 750 km higher raises perigee to 1000km altitude. So we don't have to go all the way to geostationary orbit, just high enough. But still 23,000km is not LEO.

::--[[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.248|108.162.219.248]] 04:32, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

:::Ok, I'm just about following you I think! So assuming we are launching to orbit, we have to get to 23,600km, at which point gravity is considerably reduced. We definately have to take into account {{w|Space elevator#Apparent gravitational field|change in gravity}} as our horses move up the cable.

:::I did some maths, and I believe it takes 19.9GJ to get a 450kg horse to 23,600km. That is essentially mgh, but taking into account the change in gravity. At 1 Watt, thats gonna take 631 years. Our 500 horses per year solar plant needs to output 315kW ([http://www.solardaily.com/reports/Independence_Solar_Completes_300_kW_Rooftop_Solar_Array_999.html 300kW solar array on a roof for reference]). Our 10 horses per minute power station would need to output 3.32GW, so a decent nuclear facility. Once the Three Gorges Dam in China is running at full capacity (22.5GW), it could be launching 68 horses per minute. Running constantly at full capacity, we could rid the world of horses (est 58 million) in under two years. --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 11:09, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

I filled out the remaining fields. I thought about getting the interior capacities of all 1981 Oldsmobile models but doesn't seem worth it. It's clearly a joke so that kind of research doesn't seem necessary.{{unsigned ip|173.245.56.152}}

:::I confirmed the height of 23 600 km with my own calculations; my result is about 189 km altitude at perigeum, and 996 km for 24 350 km (750 km higher, as you wrote). My code seems consistent as entering geostationary orbit altitude results in geostationary orbit. Anyway, I think that 19.9 GJ is slightly wrong - [http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=G*earth+mass*450+kg+*+(1%2Fearth+radius-1%2F(earth+radius%2B23600km)) I entered it into Wolfram], and it showet a little more. This results in 350 kW and 3.7 GW for backyard solar panels and power plant, respectively. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.92.100|162.158.92.100]] 22:20, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

'''Arrow of Time'''
Did anyone else notice the special advert for Xmas gifts? It was up at the top of the main xkcd page yesterday 2014-December-17, but gone today (the 18th). In black, blue and red colored printing it said:
----
"The XKCD store Christmas shipping deadline is Friday! 
Once it passes, there is no going back. The arrow of time drags us all 
inexorably forward toward decay and disorder toward the end of all things. 
Toward the empty silence of the grave. ORDER NOW!"
----
I thought it was amusing and saved a bitmap. Was kind of surprised that there was no other mention of this here, or on the fora either. {{unsigned ip|108.162.216.171}}

:I did notice it too, though I've always been a bit disappointed by the limited range of T-shirt comics. None of my favourites are on there. As far as this page mentioning it, it isn't relevant to the comic, so doesn't belong on this page. I don't know of a page on explainxkcd where it would really fit in. --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 11:18, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

::Why not make your own? Here is a fridge magnet, it wasn't too hard to figure out the design tools, [http://www.cafepress.com/cp/customize/product2.aspx?from=CustomDesigner&number=1027311439 Duty Calls magnet] Actual size is a little over 2" x 3" (50 x 75mm)--one problem with the design tools is figuring out the final size for some items. Based on my understanding of the CC license, I have not sold these, but I have given a few to friends. Edit--when something I want is in the XKCD store, of course I buy it there so Randall gets the cash. For example, the large poster sized version of Money on the wall in front of me now came from the XKCD store. It would be really cool if Randall made this fridge magnet (or something similar) available on his site.{{unsigned ip|‎108.162.216.171}}

:::I guess part of the reason is that I like the idea of Randall getting the cash from my purchase. --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 14:04, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

----
Actually, I find it strange that no explicit mention of Laika or Sputnik 2 is made. --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.75.89|141.101.75.89]] 23:50, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure this has nothing to do with dimensional analysis. Who wrote that part? have you ever actually done dimensional analysis? He's just using a nonstandard unit of measure. Unit conversion is almost -but not entirely- unlike dimensional analysis. {{unsigned ip|108.162.241.5}}

----

What's with the mass of squirrel? Apart from marmots, any squirrel weighs way less than a kilogram! {{unsigned ip|108.162.253.150}}

The T-Rex entry may refer to the Wankel Rex or Devil Rex discovered in 1988. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specimens_of_Tyrannosaurus#.22Wankel_Rex_or_Devil_Rex.22:_MOR_555
PaperDragon-CA [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.89|108.162.216.89]] 17:57, 30 September 2016 (UTC)