explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

Talk:3089: Modern

2025-05-15T18:08:47Z

172.69.109.89: acres are areal, not linear

Hate to be that guy, but wow, it’s empty [[User:Broseph|Broseph]] ([[User talk:Broseph|talk]]) 19:04, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

This strip reminded me of the comments in [[3063]]. Historians / historiographers typically define (early) "modernity" to begin around 1500. {{w|early modernity}} [[Special:Contributions/172.71.182.126|172.71.182.126]] 19:12, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

A similar problem exists, where a recent version of the Bible is known as the New Revised Standard Version. It will be a bit awkward when it is not new, revised, or standard. [[User:BobcatInABox|BobcatInABox]] ([[User talk:BobcatInABox|talk]]) 19:38, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
: {{w|New_Revised_Standard_Version#NRSV_Updated_Edition_(NRSVue)|It's already happened.}} [[Special:Contributions/162.158.41.167|162.158.41.167]] 06:26, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:I'm assuming it (''and'' the NRSVue) is still at least a version, though. And one, or even both, also an edition. ;) [[Special:Contributions/172.68.229.139|172.68.229.139]] 08:04, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
::Tru dat. But the NRSV can no longer be considered "new" (assuming editorial and not, say, geological, time scales) or "standard" (that title has passed to the {{w|New_International_Version|NIV}}, at least as measured by sales and by usage in English-language Protestant denominations). As for "revised", the original Standard (= King James) Bible was first published in 1611, with the "Standard" revision in 1769. The "Revised [Standard] Version" debuted in 1881. The NRSV, 1989, and the NRSVue, 2017. On this trajectory, by the end of the century, AI will be producing a new version every 30 seconds or so. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.147.85|172.71.147.85]] 15:25, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:The US Military has a similar problem: naming a system "Next-Gen [X]" but then the "Next Gen" item eventually becomes the current generation, and is eventually moving towards being obsolete and you need a successor (next-next gen?).[[Special:Contributions/172.69.6.111|172.69.6.111]] 20:05, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
::I guess the phone companies got it right with the 3G, 4G, 5G naming. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 20:23, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
::: Except for that {{w|10G}} glitch. And Dilbert predicted people copyrighting "8G" years before that. [[Special:Contributions/104.23.172.75|104.23.172.75]] 20:34, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
::There is a (not ''always'' consistent) "nth generation" classification system that is quite developed. The F-22 Raptor is a 5th Generation fighter, for example, with the (next-)next-gen ones being designed for the next decade being 6th. Though, yes, "Next Gen" still pops up (currently the programs I know of are ''mostly'' aimed at the solutions for #6, of course). [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.129|141.101.99.129]] 22:23, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

Wasn't there an earlier strip describing a similar problem on Wikipedia edits, maybe tied to the {{w|recency bias}}? There's the idea that every more recent slice needs a new, relevant name. It also seems to work going backwards, where humanity's genus, tribe, subfamily, and family are "homo", "hominini", "homininae", and "hominidae" respectively. We seem to crave a name for every arbitrary slice that is relevant for a particular researcher. And now I'm thinking of Futurama's "New New York". I'm surprised there's not already a New New York somewhere. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.233.117|162.158.233.117]] 20:31, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
:Eventually, there'll be a [https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/New_New_York New New New New New New New New New New New New New New New York]...
:Anyway, I actually live not far from a(nother) {{w|New York#United Kingdom|New York}}, and am also a regular visitor to (old) York. So I may not have been to New York, New York, on my travels, but I've got it covered on both sides. (I ''have'' been to both new Boston ''and'' the old one, but only been to the old Washington, both the original Richmond and its first copycat (but none of the US copycopyⁿcats), etc.) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.216.175|162.158.216.175]] 22:01, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

::Hmmm. I've a suspicion I know who you are.
::I'm gonna say...you ain't heavy? [[User:Yorkshire Pudding|Yorkshire Pudding]] ([[User talk:Yorkshire Pudding|talk]]) 22:16, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Ah, no. Sorry, I'm not aware of any fraternal relationship. Not just not with you, but not with anyone. ;) Nice to know there are potentially more of you out there, though.
:::I also forget where I think you're ''exactly'' from, from past information, but I do know that it's a different corner from me. Though I think you wisely left it vague, and I'm happy to be even vaguer (hence why I supplied multiple possibilities)... I think it's only rather specific (sort-of-)local knowledge that even let guess what more exacting info I ''think'' I know about you. West Riding, for starters, but I'm not going to narrow you down further. :p [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.134|172.70.86.134]] 22:38, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
::I know where you live now /j [[User:Commercialegg|Commercialegg]] ([[User talk:Commercialegg|talk]]) 00:13, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:::...to within 3 million acres or so, sure... ...maybe! /jj [[Special:Contributions/172.69.43.221|172.69.43.221]] 05:50, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: [[687]]. I'm surprised how often people confuse linear and areal dimensions. I think I've seen people use acres as a measure of distance twice in the last week. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.109.89|172.69.109.89]] 18:08, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

Where do I post site suggestions?¿?¿?¿?¿ [[User:Aprilfoolsupdate!|Aprilfoolsupdate!]] ([[User talk:Aprilfoolsupdate!|talk]]) 04:20, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:What kind of suggestion? (And, for that matter, what kind of site?!?) Though I would probably start by clicking on the Community Portal link in the side navbar over <- there (and up a bit?). Might also be worth seeing if your potential suggestion already has something like it, rather than add a new section the repeats one (or more) past subheader(s). Also might help you find which sub-page suits your particular input. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.43.221|172.69.43.221]] 05:50, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

I remember as a kid asking my parents: "Why does the New Testament look so old?". [[Special:Contributions/162.158.245.161|162.158.245.161]] 06:42, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
: In German it makes sense, sort of - "modern" can also be a verb, meaning "to rot" :-) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.245.137|162.158.245.137]] 06:55, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:Some Gideon-types (maybe not ''actual'' Gideons, but of the same mind) came to my school one day (possibly they did it every year for each new age of students, never checked) and did a bit of basic god-bothering stuff with us. Either separate from the actual Religious Education class (which might have had more abrahamic=>judeo-christian=>christian=>protestant stuff, at times, but actually ''did'' properly cover other religions and wider belief systems) or as a once-only replacement for it (adjourning from the usual classroom, at its usual time, and instead meeting these 'missonaries' in one of the non-classroom rooms).
:...anyway... we were given handy-sized NTs. (Probably I still have mine, somewhere, because I rarely get rid of any book, of ''any'' kind, but I know other classmates probably were happily scattering them to the four winds as soon as the fancy took them.) My most immediate impression was the disappointment that it was ''just'' the NT. Whatever I thought about the ultimate veracity of either (not much, even at that age), I already knew that all the actual exciting stuff was in the OT. All the 'New' stuff basically boils down to "Be excellent to each other, dudes!" (as paraphrased by Bill and Ted) and a mixed bag of minor peril and miscarriage of justice. Whereas the 'Old' bits has various cities being destroyed, various multigenerational soap-opera plots and ''two'' completely different explanations for how everything began! They don't write 'em like that any more. Well, they do, but between The Book Of Mormon (the Joseph Smith one, not the Broadway one) and the various works of L. Ron Hubbard ("Mission: Earth" was even more escapist than "Battlefield Earth", and would have been even easier to badly make into a movie!) there's a ''lot'' of variation. ;)
:Though given how much might have been lost in translation, maybe I also ought to try reading everythihg in the original Klingon... [[Special:Contributions/172.68.229.139|172.68.229.139]] 08:04, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

Ever notice how the words modern and modem can resemble each other when presented in the correctly chosen typeface, point size and kerning? We could have had a 56k modern if we squinted sideways. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.30.251|172.71.30.251]] 11:56, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

Me when the New Super Mario Bros. series is over a decade old at this point lmao. Also, not willing to delete Incase I'm wrong, but what is this bit about communism and fascism?[[Special:Contributions/172.69.70.13|172.69.70.13]] 12:30, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:I believe it's being suggested that these particular two 'different' philosophies (not necessarily, though, if one believes they just aimed for the same basic result from different directions) were developed in reaction to the more monarchical systems of government, both given impetus from the experiences of The Great War (though not just that) to create a ''different'' form of figurehead-dominated politics that was considered, by their proponents, a "modern" solution. Over time, various 'problems' were identified (not least WW2, that revealed Fascism's nature, though Communism temporarily ended up in a better position). Much of the rest of the world ended up moving on from the vestiges of 'traditional monarchy' over this time, too, but not the same way (and, arguably, with different problems - many still quite real or possibly getting worse). There are those who may think that Fascism/Communism actually could still work (perhaps if done ''properly''!), but the original eras of these are now more retro than modern so perhaps (unless you're good at rewriting history) not under those particularly poisoned names.
:Or so I understood it. Not sure I'd say it like that, or consider it an apt addition to this article, but then I'm not a professional (political-)historian and don't have the in-depth expertise to judge its accuracy in full. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.157|172.70.86.157]] 13:33, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:: Both 'isms mentioned here have roots a fair bit older than The Great War. The bundle-of-sticks-ism is possibly the oldest form of governance there is, if you define it loosely. (Please note that that is more of a condemnation than endorsement.) --DW [[Special:Contributions/172.69.74.237|172.69.74.237]] 14:02, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Definitely (and I nearly mentioned that Germany copied Italy's model, while Japan joined in from a still Imperial perspective). Though the pressures of fighting WW1 catalysed Russia's revolution (mid-fight) and many other systems (e.g. Italy) developed both -isms to some degree or other; both the Red Flags and the Black Shirts were plentiful enough in Britain, at times, too, interbellum, arguably held off by Churchill (along with other far more dodgy things) before he even had to deal with the next coming war. Spain became the "rehersal" for the various factions. For post-Kaiser Germany, the resulting defeat plus post-Verseilles demands fuelled drives for ''both'' forms of 'socialism' (the 'national' type ending up in total control, now on an Italy+ track such that most people often forget poor old Benito's part in inspiring it), setting up circumstances for the next bout. Not sure that such things could have been avoided, without WW1, but it definitely forced matters and shaped the 'modern' world differently from how it might have done if the First Great War had only boiled over later. (With different personalities, a few of the same original errors, probably a smattering of more advanced mil-tech or lost opportunities to have learnt from earlier (less effective) wide-area weaponry/long-range weaponry against both enemy and civilian targets - a rich vein for alternate history!)
:::But I say this only to help with 5he "what is this about...?", which I took to mean not quite knowing how (in their time) they were considered modern answers to age-old questions, only to become different (and eventually dated) problems on the way to today's (still problematic) future. The old "those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it" thing applies in spades, here... [[Special:Contributions/172.69.224.169|172.69.224.169]] 15:03, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

: I agree that seems out of place and not pertinent to the comic itself. It is true that those and other 'isms arose because of societal upheavals associated with various [adj]modern things, but that's trivially true of... almost everything. --DW [[Special:Contributions/172.69.74.237|172.69.74.237]] 14:02, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
::I ''guess'' that those phrases are there as a segue to explain post-modernism? But the wording is kinda janky and those 2 schools of thought may not be the best examples for this --anon [[Special:Contributions/162.158.79.56|162.158.79.56]] 17:41, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

: Yes, '''please delete the whole phrase''', "and evolved into Communism, and its counter Fascism" since that statement is altogether false. Communism and Fascism are both a form of Marxist totalitarianism. They only differ in implementation and not in ideology. Communism forbids all private ownership, while fascism allows only that private ownership that subjects itself to control by the state. Possibly, the whole section about labeling political movements unrelated to the comic since it doesn't match the categories and time periods depicted in the comic. I vote to take it all out. [[User:Rtanenbaum|Rtanenbaum]] ([[User talk:Rtanenbaum|talk]]) 16:43, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

== Modern just means "current" ==

I think the text makes it seem like the fact that the name "modern" as a technical term and the normal use of the word are different meanings of the same word is just a coincidence, as if the term "modern" was extended to refer to contemporary events from its use to describe contemporary philosophy and the like. Instead, "the fault", so to say, lies with those who used the word "modern" to describe the philosophy and the like in the first place. From what I can tell, "modern" does originally mean "current" or something close to it. To use it as a descriptor for things that will not stay "modern" is the ultimate cause.

While this can be read into the current article, I think the overall feeling of the article on that issue goes in the wrong direction. [[User:Theanswertolifetheuniverseandeverything|Theanswertolifetheuniverseandeverything]] ([[User talk:Theanswertolifetheuniverseandeverything|talk]]) 15:22, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

3073: Tariffs

2025-04-08T13:14:19Z

172.69.109.89: /* Explanation */ wikilink

{{comic
| number = 3073
| date = April 7, 2025
| title = Tariffs
| image = tariffs_2x.png
| imagesize = 681x809px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = [later] I don't get why our pizza slices have such terrible reviews; the geotextile-infused sauce gives the toppings incredible slope stability!
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a SPOILER FOR AVATAR 2 (Neteyam dies) - Please change this comment when editing this page. Explanation of the consequences of stopping imports (the last panel) is needed. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

This comic is a parody of the tariffs that {{w|Donald Trump}} {{w|tariffs in the second Trump administration|imposed in 2025}}, which were announced shortly before the comic's release. [[Cueball]] describes the tariffs and, specifically, why the plan has garnered widespread disapproval for several seemingly illogical decisions, to [[Ponytail]] using a pizza store analogy.

Similar to [[2396: Wonder Woman 1984]], Ponytail blocked news sites to avoid {{w|spoiler (media)|spoiler}}s about ''Avatar 2'' (officially titled ''{{w|Avatar: The Way of Water}}'') in early 2021, but did not re-enable notifications until just now. ''Avatar 2'' was released on December 16, 2022, but this means that she has missed all news since 2021, including the re-election of Trump in 2024. She is surprised by the fact that Donald Trump is still the president in early 2025. She may be under the impression that Trump refused to step down when [[Joe Biden]]'s presidency officially began on Jan. 20, 2021. Trump has made repeated false claims that {{w|2020_United_States_presidential_election#False_claims_of_fraud| the election was "stolen"}} shortly after the 2020 elections, indicating his reluctance to accept the results. On one hand, a U.S. president serving nonconsecutive terms has only happened once before in U.S. history with Grover Cleveland serving from 1885 to 1889 and again from 1893 to 1897. On the other hand, only {{w|Franklin D. Roosevelt}} ever had more than two four-year terms, and that was before the {{w|Twenty-second Amendment to the United States Constitution|22nd Amendment}} made it even less of a possibility that one could have started a third.

Ponytail has further missed Trump's wide-ranging tariffs, and the attending news coverage that has served to introduce many people to what tariffs are and how they work. Cueball attempts to explain by comparing the U.S. with the Geotechnical Survey company that Ponytail works for, as they are both producers of high value, technologically advanced goods, and comparing the countries the U.S. imports from to a pizza place, since the U.S. primarily imports lower value consumer goods and materials used to make the goods that the U.S. then exports, similar to how pizzas feed the workers in Ponytail's company.

A trade deficit occurs when party A buys more from party B than they sell to party B. Donald Trump, the president of the United States at the time the comic released, claimed that if the U.S. has a trade deficit with another country, then the U.S. is getting ripped off and the other country must be punished. In the comic, Cueball mockingly echoes Trump's belief to better explain his policies. As Ponytail explains, there is nothing wrong with having a trade deficit if you think you are getting your money's worth for what you are buying.{{Citation needed}} The U.S. can benefit from a trade deficit in some cases: the flow of foreign capital (like factory machinery) into the country can allow for more development, and some kinds of production are dangerous or polluting relative to the value of the goods produced. In addition, the U.S. treasury commands the world's reserve currency as well as the currency used for most world trade, making outflow of foreign currency not really a problem.{{Actual citation needed}}

A tariff is a tax on imports from another country. Most politicians try to balance tariffs carefully in order to keep domestic products competitive with imported goods. In contrast, Donald Trump introduced tariffs unilaterally and aggressively with the aim to "punish" countries with which the United States had a trade deficit. Trump's opponents and even many of his supporters worry excessive tariffs will backfire and cause countries to target the American consumer with even higher prices (especially prices of goods which the United States cannot produce domestically at all) resulting in a "trade war."

In the comic, Cueball proposes that Ponytail impose a tax or "tariff" on the pizza store until they start buying from Ponytail, using the {{w|Venmo}} transactions platform. Notably, the tariff is applied on the people who deliver the products to Ponytail's company, just like in real life. Ponytail notes that such a tariff might encourage the pizza store to stop selling to her, which Cueball considers (in his position as devil's advocate for the whole concept) a victory. In reality, nations have very little control of where the products go after being produced inside their own borders. Instead, it is left up to the companies (the delivery companies, in this case) to decide where to produce (or procure) the goods. What tariff proponents often omit, is that companies will simply pass on the costs associated with tariffs to the consumers, making the pizza more expensive for the consumer but with no benefit to the supplier. In practical terms, the pizza company may even just stop taking orders from this company, having other customers that are easier to deliver to. Even if there's a saturated pizza industry, with several pizza outlets all vying for the local business, it may still be less problematic to compete for the slightly smaller 'rest of the town' market, perhaps even to offer deliveries to places previously outside their area, than to work with whatever requirements the survey company is imposing.

In contrast to real world countries like China or Canada which, as of 2025, procure a substantial amount of goods from the U.S., Ponytail notes that the pizza company has little use for land survey equipment, unless they are constructing their own stores from the ground up without outside contractors. Ponytail suggests surveying pizzas using their equipment, which would serve little purpose.

The U.S. used to be a dominant producer of consumer goods up until the 1970s, after which companies started offshoring production that utilized low-skilled labor to third-world countries. In contrast, Ponytail's company has likely never been a producer of food. {{w|LIDAR}} is a technique using lasers to measure distances. Ponytail's company is using the technology to do surveying. In the final panel and title text, Cueball suggests that they use their LIDAR components to make their own pizzas, which would be inedible and potentially toxic.{{Citation needed}} Cueball may be referencing the annoyance Italians have at unconventional pizza toppings.

The title text references slope stability, or the ability of an inclined slope to withstand movement. Toppings often slide off poorly-made pizzas when it is being eaten, leading to dissatisfaction. {{w|Geotextile}}s are permeable fabrics used for support and various other functions. The narrator claims that geotextiles prevent toppings from sliding off the pizza. However, very few geotextiles are edible.{{Citation needed}}

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.I don’t like reCAPTCHAS}}
:[Ponytail walks over to Cueball while looking at a phone in her hand. Cueball turns away from the laptop on his desk to look at her.]
:Ponytail: You know how I blocked all news sites at the start of 2021 to avoid spoilers for Avatar 2, and then forgot to start checking them again?
:Cueball: Yeah, we've been meaning to talk to you about that...

:[Ponytail stops in front of Cueball and is facing him.]
:Ponytail: Well, I just checked the news for the first time, and why is the economy tanking?
:Cueball: Uh, the president is mad at other countries and imposed lots of tariffs.

:[Closeup on Ponytail's head.]
:Ponytail: Wait, who's the president now?
:Cueball (off-panel): Donald Trump.
:Ponytail: ...Still??
:Cueball (off-panel): No, again.

:[Pan out. Ponytail is no longer holding the phone.]
:Ponytail: OK, fine, what's a tariff? Why is he doing this?
:Cueball: You know that pizzeria your company orders from? They don't buy anything from ''you'', right?
:Ponytail: Why would they? We do geotechnical landscape surveys.

:[Closeup on Cueball, arms spread.]
:Cueball: Right, so they're ripping you off! ''You're'' paying ''them'' tons of money, and what are ''you'' getting for it?
:Ponytail (off-panel): I mean... pizza?
:Cueball: See? They're not helping ''your'' business at all!
:Cueball: What a ripoff!

:[Pan out. Ponytail has her hand under her chin.]
:Ponytail: What would they even buy from us? I guess we could survey a pizza...
:Cueball: Yes, perfect! You refuse to let the delivery driver past your security desk unless they Venmo you for an equivalent value of LIDAR scans.

:[Closeup on Ponytail's head.]
:Ponytail: Wouldn't they just stop taking our orders?
:Cueball (off-panel): Perfect, balance restored!

:[Pan out.]
:Ponytail: OK, but I still want pizza.
:Cueball: Can you just make one? You have all that gear.
:Ponytail: I don't think pizza made with LIDAR diodes would be very good.
:Cueball: Ugh, why is everyone so picky about toppings?

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Politics]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Donald Trump]]
[[Category:Food]]
[[Category:Geology]]

Talk:3071: Decay Chain

2025-04-03T09:57:19Z

172.69.109.89:

... should have gone down to the 5S. That was really rock bottom... [[Special:Contributions/172.70.114.36|172.70.114.36]] 01:53, 3 April 2025 (UTC)
: My old SE was a real workhorse. Small enough to comfortably use in one hand, power button on the top so I don't have to worry about turning it off when gripping it, headphone jack, black background on the reboot screen, and twice as much storage as my current iphone 7. It kept working until the screen cracked and glass was peeling out of the screen, and several months beyond that, when the screen just went blank and refused to turn on. [[User:Firestar233|guess who]] ([[User talk:Firestar233|if you desire conversing]] | [[Special:Contributions/Firestar233|what i have done]]) 05:10, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

No april fools' comic? Sad. [[User:Onestay|Onestay]] ([[User talk:Onestay|talk]]) 01:58, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

:Takes some time. Might still be one.--[[User:Bb777|me, hi]] ([[User talk:Bb777|talk]]) 02:18, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

:Yeah, escape speed was late for 18 days, maybe the new interactive comic will be the same [[User:Aprilfoolsupdate!|Aprilfoolsupdate!]] ([[User talk:Aprilfoolsupdate!|talk]]) 05:06, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

A quick search for "newest iPhone" gave me that 16 (various models) is the newest. That is, if it's newer than 15. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.15.141|172.68.15.141]] 04:39, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

Most stars only produce Bell rotary phones, perhaps producing touch tone or even cordless phones briefly as they move off the main sequence. Massive stars can produce up to Nokia phones, but that's the final stage that stars can produce in their normal lifespan. All smartphones are produced in supernova. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.246.149|172.69.246.149]] 05:32, 3 April 2025 (UTC)
: I thought they were produced in a Movistar. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.163.167|172.70.163.167]] 09:01, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

I miss an explanation of the iPhone models. Are these the only ones there are? In which order were they released? (Of course, I could google iPhone, but that would defeat the purpose of this page, wouldn’t it?) It feels strange that there is an iPhone 7, but no 8 and 9, then X (assuming X means 10), 11, 12 only with the addition “pro max” and so on. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.43.67|172.70.43.67]] 06:26, 3 April 2025 (UTC)
:I think there is an 8
:There are more phones theorised to exist in nature, but they're mostly only found in high-energy colliders. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.179|172.68.205.179]] 07:12, 3 April 2025 (UTC)
::Note that the comic shows a {{w|decay chain}} not a {{w|table of nuclides}}, i.e. it only shows iPhones which occur during the decay of an iPhone 16 pro max. I also wonder why iPhone X apparently has Z=9, but according to {{w|List of iPhone models}} apparently no iPhone 9 was ever observed. --[[Special:Contributions/172.69.109.89|172.69.109.89]] 09:57, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

Maybe this references how especially for iPhones, new models are constantly made and old ones traded in or discarded? As if the new phones are actually the same and current phones are just getting worse? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.167.10|162.158.167.10]] 07:18, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

3065: Square Units

2025-03-21T16:19:46Z

172.69.109.89: /* Explanation */ "a 1cm strip per second" does not make sense here.

{{comic
| number = 3065
| date = March 19, 2025
| title = Square Units
| image = square_units_2x.png
| imagesize = 545x678px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = The biggest I've seen in a published source in the wild is an 80-fold error in a reported distance, which I think came from a series of at least three unit conversions and area/length misinterpretations.
}}

==Explanation==

In this comic, [[Megan]] is using her phone to read about an insect species that consumes (hyperbolically described as 'devours') one square inch of grass per day. As it is relayed through a chain of conversations, this measurement gets misinterpreted up to 12 times until [[Hairbun]] tells other people that it devours an area of grass equal to two times the land area of Australia per day, which is clearly impossible by one insect.{{citation needed}} This is similar to the premise of [[2585: Rounding]].

This gross error is the result of repeatedly misinterpreting the number of square units as the side length of a square, thus increasing the described area by the power of two. The chain also involves converting between {{w|imperial units}} and {{w|International System of Units|SI}} units, thus introducing smaller rounding errors, and frequently switching which measurement is "a single square with sides of a certain distance" and which is "the number of squares that are each of unit length". The upshot is that, while each statement has two (or more) roughly similar measurements of area, the chain of misunderstanding ends up escalating to ever larger relative expanses. The later participants in this chain also clearly forget to sanity-check their figures, blithely informing others that an individual insect is effectively consuming impossibly huge quantities of food, and traveling enormous linear distances every day to do so. In fact, assuming the insect could continuously eat a 1cm strip of grass, it would need to travel at (2,500 miles)2 / 1cm / 24 hours = 1.87×107 km/s, which is about 62 times the speed of light.

In the final frame, [[Blondie]] further misinterprets the comparative 'area of Australia' to mean the ''actual'' land mass of Australia, with the notional insect entirely defoliating the country twice a day, presumably of whatever had managed to grow within each 12 hour cycle. This would quickly kill off a large proportion of the vegetation, leading to a decreasing food supply for the insect.

The title text tells us that [[Randall]] once found an 80-fold error in a reported distance in a published source. However, it is left as an exercise for the reader to figure out which one.

===Table of conversions===
{{incomplete|Explain the meanings behind the different colors.}}
{| class="wikitable"
! Step !! Multiplier !! Total multiplier !! Square inch !! Square cm !! Square foot !! Acre !! Square meters !! Square kilometers !! Square miles
|-
! 1
| N/A || 100% ||style="background-color:lightgreen;"| 1||style="background-color:red;"| 6.4516 || 0.006945 || 1.594e-7 || 0.0006451 || 6.451e-10 || 2.490e-10
|-
! 2
| 0.93 || 0.93 || 0.93 ||style="background-color:pink;"| 6 || 0.006458 || 1.482e-7 || 0.0006 || 6e-10 || 2.316e-10
|-
! 3
| 6.00 || 5.58 || 5.58 ||style="background-color:lightgreen;"| 36 (62)||0.03875 || 8.895e-7 || 0.0036 || 3.6e-9 || 1.39e-9
|-
! 4
| 36.00 || 200.90 || 200.9 ||style="background-color:lightgreen;"|1,296 (362) || style="background-color:red;"|1.395 || 3.202e-5 || 0.1296 || 1.296e-7 || 5.004e-8
|-
! 5
| 0.72 || 144.00 || 144 || style="background-color:red;"|929.03 || style="background-color:pink;"|1 || 2.296e-5 || 0.09290 || 9.290e-8 || 3.587e-8
|-
! 6
| 0.97 || 139.50 || 139.5 || style="background-color:pink;"|900|| 0.9688 || 2.224e-5 || 0.09 ||9e-8 || 3.475e-8
|-
! 7
| 90,000.00 || 125,550.25 || 125,550.25 || style="background-color:lightgreen;"|810,000 (9002)|| style="background-color:green;"|871.9||0.02002 || 81||8.1e-5 || 3.127e-5
|-
! 8
| 1.032 || 129,600 || 129,600 || 836,127||style="background-color:lightgreen;"| 900 (302) ||0.02066|| 83.61||8.361e-5 || 3.228e-5
|-
! 9
| 90,000.00 || 1.1,66e+8 || 1.166e+8 || 7.525e+8 ||style="background-color:lightgreen;"| 810,000 (9002) || style="background-color:green;"|18.59|| 7.525e+4 || 0.07525 || 0.02905
|-
! 10
| 1.076 || 1.255e+8 || 1.255e+8 || 8.094e+8|| 871,200||style="background-color:lightgreen;"| 20|| style="background-color:green;"|8.093e+5 || 0.08093 || 0.03125
|-
! 11
| 7,91e+6 || 9.920e+12 || 9.920e+12 || 6.4e+13|| 6.889e+13 || 1.581e+6 || style="background-color:lightgreen;"| 6.4e+9 (80,0002) || 6,400 ||2,471
|-
! 12
| 1.00 || 9.920e+12 || 9.920e+12 || 6.4e+13|| 6.889e+13 || 1.581e+6 || 6.4e+9 || style="background-color:lightgreen;"|6,400 (802) ||style="background-color:green;"|2,471
|-
! 13
| 253,128 || 2.509e+16 || 2.509e+16|| 1.618e+17 || 1.7424e+14|| 4.000e12 || 1.619e+13 || 1.618e+7 || style="background-color:lightgreen;"|6.250e+6 (2,5002)
|-
|}
The total area of Australia is 7,688,287 km² or 2,968,464 mi², making it the 6th largest country on Earth by area. A 2,500-mile square would actually be about 2.1 times greater than the land area of Australia, once again having a rounding error.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
:[Arrows point to each consecutive panel.]

:[Megan is looking at her phone, with Cueball standing next to her.]
:Megan: This newly-described insect can devour up to a square inch of grass per day.
:Cueball: Oh, neat.

:[Cueball is speaking to Ponytail.]
:Cueball: ...it eats a square inch, or 6 cm², of grass per day...

:[Ponytail is speaking to Hairy.]
:Ponytail: ...a 6-centimeter (2½ inch) square of grass, or 36 cm²...

:[Arrows now point to each consecutive conversion.]
:Written out of panel: ...a 36 centimeter square, or over a square foot...
:Written out of panel: ...a square foot, or 900 cm²...
:Written out of panel: ...a 900 cm (30 foot) square...
:Written out of panel: ...a 30 foot square of grass (900 square feet)...
:Written out of panel: ...a 900 foot square, or almost 20 acres...
:Written out of panel: ...20 acres (8 hectares, or 80,000 square meters)...
:Written out of panel: ...an 80,000 meter (80 km) square...
:Written out of panel: ...a square 80 km wide, or roughly 2,500 square miles...
:Written out of panel: ...a 2,500-mile square, or twice the land area of Australia, per day...

:[An arrow points from the last conversion to the last panel.]
:[Hairbun is looking at her phone, with White Hat, Danish and Blondie standing next to her.]
:Hairbun: Did you hear about this insect that defoliates the entire land area of Australia twice a day?
:White Hat: Gosh!
:Danish: Wow.
:Blondie: I hope at least it's contained there...

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Math]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Hairy]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Hairbun]]
[[Category:Comics featuring White Hat]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Danish]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Blondie]]

Talk:3065: Square Units

2025-03-21T15:33:45Z

172.69.109.89:

I like this one :) reminds me of trying to use recipes in imperial units with metric equipment [[Special:Contributions/162.158.108.29|162.158.108.29]] 19:48, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

I so want to stand outside Randall's office holding up {{tl|citation needed}} for not giving an actual citation on the title text. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.175.159|162.158.175.159]] 20:07, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

We should start using ares as a common unit of measure. https://www.britannica.com/science/are [[Special:Contributions/172.69.135.15|172.69.135.15]] 20:09, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
:We have done, some still do: {{w|Hectare#Are}} [[Special:Contributions/172.70.163.70|172.70.163.70]] 21:20, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
:I really hate when people use "metric ton" instead of the correct megagram (Mg). [[User:SDSpivey|SDSpivey]] ([[User talk:SDSpivey|talk]]) 12:28, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

The area of eaten vegetation is all well and good, but we really need to know the total volume consumed. In barn-megaparsecs, ideally. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.241.89|172.71.241.89]] 21:26, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

I just got the mail notification for this and the previous comic at the same time. I would say that Randall forgot to send out the previous one before, but surely this is automated, so I guess something went wrong with that setup. [[User:Fabian42|Fabian42]] ([[User talk:Fabian42|talk]]) 00:01, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

Percentages? Could we not? Can't we use multiplication factors instead? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.230.38|172.70.230.38]] 21:30, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

I really want to know what the 80-fold error was now [[User:Thief|Thief]] ([[User talk:Thief|talk]]) 10:54, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
: Here's an error in chemical names instead--Diphenhydramine (Benadryl) occasionally appears as diphenhydrazine, which (if it existed) might be a rocket fuel. Google for it, just for scientific fun. Rocket flight to Australia, now in your local pharmacy! [[Special:Contributions/172.69.71.207|172.69.71.207]] 11:38, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
::There's a dangerous point of confusion between diphenhydramine and dimenhydrinate (Gravol). In medical contexts, the two are often given differing capitalizations to emphasize the differences between the words, to reduce the risk of patients being given the wrong one (e.g. dimenhyDRINATE vs. diphenhydrAMINE). [[User:BunsenH|BunsenH]] ([[User talk:BunsenH|talk]]) 14:51, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
::Realistically, if "diphenhydrazine" is diphenylhydrazine, it would be a much poorer rocket fuel than hydrazine. It's a known substance, used in chemical manufacture, melting point a bit above the boiling point of water, moderately nasty in terms of health risks. Flammable, yes, but not particularly exciting. [[User:BunsenH|BunsenH]] ([[User talk:BunsenH|talk]]) 15:05, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
:A particularly vexing origami issue.[[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.156|172.71.178.156]] 14:42, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

The land area of Australia really depends on when it last rained. There are very large areas that will be completely dry prior to rain that will be flooded after. [[User:SDSpivey|SDSpivey]] ([[User talk:SDSpivey|talk]]) 12:28, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
:I used the area from the CIA world factbook that included both land and water area. [[User:TomtheBuilder|TomtheBuilder]] ([[User talk:TomtheBuilder|talk]]) 18:26, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

You should never write `square cm`, etc. but always `cm²`. Same for seemingly standard abbreviations: Don't write `ccm` for "cubic centimeter", but `cm³`. Even though, in spoken language "square centimeter" is correct. Another confusion can sometimes arise from not knowing that squaring or cubing binds less than the centi-/kilo-/... prefix. I.e., `cm³` is `(0.01m)³` not `0.01(m³)`. A liter (`l`) is `0.001m³` or `1dm³ = (0.1m)³`. A milliliter is `0.001l = 0.000001m³ = (0.01m)³ = 1cm³` --[[Special:Contributions/172.69.109.92|172.69.109.92]] 12:48, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
:All you need to remember is:
:"X units square" = a square of X units = (X units)² '' = X² (units²) ''
:"X square units" = X times a square unit = X (units²) '' = (√X units)² ''
: "X prefixunits" is (X × prefix) units, for the sake of preserving the units ''so "7 decagrammes" is "70 grammes" (or 0.07 kg, if you need that, for whatever reason) [though not to be confused with "grammage", which is "grammes per square metre"!] and "450 nanometres" is "450×10-9 metres" or "4.5×10-7 metres"'' [[Special:Contributions/172.69.195.62|172.69.195.62]] 14:26, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
::Getting a bit off-topic, but is "grammage" really a unit or rather a quantity? I.e., "Grammage measured in gram(mes) per square meter", same as "mass in kilogram". Or would you say "Standard office paper has 80 grammage(s)?" (Disclaimer: I'm not a native English speaker, so honest question). --[[Special:Contributions/172.69.109.89|172.69.109.89]] 15:33, 21 March 2025 (UTC)

I don't see that the table is too wide to display (on a "normal" full-hd screen). But I agree that more than ~3 significant digits are kind of useless. We could even add a column with the unit "area of Australia" --[[Special:Contributions/172.71.160.61|172.71.160.61]] 16:19, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

Another point: The percentage "gain" column is mostly wrong, e.g. from 1 to 144 you have a "gain" of 143 or 14300% not 14400% (I'd rather show a gain factor though). --[[Special:Contributions/172.71.160.60|172.71.160.60]] 16:18, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

There are other mistakes being made in communicating the factoid. One is called out by the comic itself (namely the defoliation of Australia in particular rather than a nondescript Australia-sized area of land), but there are others too. For example, it has become more ambiguous whether the factoid is about a single insect or the insect as a species. It'd be somewhat believable if you're talking about an entire species eating that much per day. The other miscommunication is that it's gone from talking about grass to foliage in general, but foliage in general can vary in density a lot more than a patch of grass, creating additional inaccuracies. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.47.53|172.70.47.53]] 17:57, 20 March 2025 (UTC)