explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

Talk:3079: Air Fact

2025-04-23T15:43:35Z

172.69.195.172:

average person eats 3 spiders a year" factoid actualy just statistical error. average person eats 0 spiders per year. Spiders Georg, who lives in cave & eats over 10,000 each day, is an outlier adn should not have been counted” [[Special:Contributions/172.68.7.184|172.68.7.184]] 15:19, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
:🔥🔥🔥🔥 [[User:Broseph|Broseph]] ([[User talk:Broseph|talk]]) 15:26, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
:{{citation_needed}}[[Special:Contributions/172.68.174.138|172.68.174.138]] 15:52, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
:This is one of those factoids like "Over 5% of the population has an above average number of fingers."[[Special:Contributions/172.68.245.136|172.68.245.136]] 16:16, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
::That factoid sounds true. Assuming there are more people who have fewer than ten fingers than those who have extra fingers (some people have whole hands missing, but extra digits to my knowledge normally only come in ones and twos), then the average is slightly less than ten, and the ten-fingered vast majority of people have an above-average number of fingers, certainly more than 5% of the population. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.164|141.101.98.164]] 19:10, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
:::I have more than the average number of legs (for a human), as I famously insisted once in my mathematics class. And still do. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.94|162.158.74.94]] 22:34, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
:I don't really get the way the title text is written. Why is "so many ants" assumed to be a small number, like the number of spiders? [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 17:47, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
::If the factoid in the comic were true, the fact that the average person has a tidal volume of about half a litre, and takes between 12-20 breaths per minute means that they breathe in and out about 10 cubic metres per day. That’s over 100,000 ants. The fact that you are talking about “per year” implies that the rate is a reasonable number per year, not over 36 million. It’s like comparing the speed of continents to the speed of a car. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.0.190|172.68.0.190]] 20:03, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
::Because that's part of the joke. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.241.123|172.71.241.123]] 08:49, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

The term "microscopic ants" supposedly refers to viruses and other microorganisms, not actual tiny ants. The actual concentration of airborne germs is pretty much in that ballpark, so it's not about sampling bias, it's about framing. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.103.36|162.158.103.36]] 17:00, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
:There isn't even such a thing as a "microscopic ant". The smallest ant species is 0.8mm long. That's tiny, but easily visible without aid. And if there were 10,000 of them in a cubic meter of air, you'd notice. It would be like walking through a thick swarm of gnats. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 17:47, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
::If taking, and more importantly analysing, air samples is so hard then how can we be so sure there aren't microscopic airborne ants? Checkmate. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.52|172.70.162.52]] 10:18, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
Speaking for myself, I don't understand what would be difficult about taking air samples. Currently the article claims it's sampling bias, but why should that be anymore difficult with air than with e.g. soil?[[Special:Contributions/172.69.67.22|172.69.67.22]] 18:14, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
: Tried to address this ... [[Special:Contributions/172.71.146.123|172.71.146.123]] 19:23, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
: It's difficult to take an exact volume of air and analyze it's content. The less you care about how close to exact volume you took, the easier it is. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 05:07, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
:: Doesn't air expand to fit whichever volume the recipient has? I don't think that's the problem.. the problem is sampling in a way that is representative enough, since air is a very heterogeneous mix of a massive size and the concentrations are constantly changing, even small changes in temperature cause changes in density that create small convection currents that push everything around and affect the composition of the surrounding area --[[Special:Contributions/172.71.148.154|172.71.148.154]] 12:39, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
:There's nothing difficult about taking air samples - I do it myself about every 3-5 seconds. More, when exercising. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.157|172.71.178.157]] 08:53, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
::And the nostrils contain very good analysis devices. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 16:26, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

Microscopic wasps, on the other hand: surprisingly commonplace. Many species are too small to be seen with the naked eye, and if Megan took her samples near hedgerows in summer, there could have been some microscopic wasps in every sample cubic metre. Probably a few orders of magnitude less than 10,000. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.219|141.101.98.219]] 19:25, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
:"Many species are too small to be seen with the naked eye" - Wikipedia claims that [[wikipedia:Fairyfly|fairy wasps]] are the smallest flying insect at 0.15mm, which is large enough to see if you get close enough. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.26.39|172.68.26.39]] 22:55, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

I don't see any evidence Megan is referring to microbes as microscopic ants. As a microbiologist, if she meant a bacterium, etc. it seems like she would have just said so, especially since the ants claim is made again in the title text. She's preying on Cueball's gullibility and unfamiliarity with the subject for her own amusement, to convince him the air is overrun with literal microscopic ants which don't exist and wouldn't be in the air if they did. Likewise the paragraph about extrapolation errors seems unnecessary as well. She's not making a sampling error - she's just making the whole thing up. Just my take. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.17.211|172.69.17.211]] 22:06, 21 April 2025 (UTC)Pat

This comic is dumb and makes no sense. {{unsigned ip|172.70.230.37|01:34, 22 April 2025}}
:Did you write 'comic' when you meant 'comment'?[[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.157|172.71.178.157]] 08:53, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
::Literally nobody in this talk page understands the joke. Randall isn't going to notice you just because you'll defend any slop he puts out. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.55.48|172.68.55.48]] 10:38, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Except that's literally untrue. And your second sentence has nothing to do with anything.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.133|172.70.86.133]] 13:31, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
::::This is an interesting arguement {{unsigned ip|162.158.137.163|22 April 2025 (UTC)}}

The use of "cubic meter" here is pretty straightforward, but it did make me think of ways that units can be poorly communicated to make something sound incredible when it's actually true and not all that impressive (e.g., [https://smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2097 SMBC #2097]). If Megan had instead said "cubic tonne", it would still sound intuitively similar to "cubic meter" but would represent over 800 cubic meters (taking STP at sea level) or arguably up to 10,000 cubic meters if you count all the atmosphere up to the Karman line. (The volume of the atmosphere is around 5.2e19 cubic meters.) While the median average cubic meter of air obviously contains zero ants, the estimated total of 20 quadrillion ants on Earth yields a mean average of 0.0004 ants per cubic meter, which works out to up to 4 "ants per cubic tonne" of air. And if we go a little further, it gets even more interesting. Let's stick with "cubic meter" of air rather than cubic tonne. If we assume that the average ant is no "taller" than 1 cm, then virtually all those 20 quadrillion ants are necessarily contained to a volume of air no greater than the land surface area of Earth times 1 cm, which gives you a volume of 1.49e12 cubic meters of air which could possibly contain ants. The added internal volume of ant colonies, while larger than you might think, is negligible compared to the land surface area of the planet, so this actually yields a whopping 13,400 ants per "average" cubic meter, astonishingly close to Megan's claim. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.47.127|172.70.47.127]] 16:21, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

The explanation needs to mention flying ants. They're certainly not microscopic, they only fly for one or two days a year and there are unlikely to be 10000 in any given cubic metre of air [citation needed], but they're definitely relevant. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.126|141.101.99.126]] 09:58, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
:There ''might'' be {{w|Nuptial flight#Flying ant day|one or two days}}, or not. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.195.172|172.69.195.172]] 15:43, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

3074: Push Notifications

2025-04-10T08:46:32Z

172.69.195.172: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 3074
| date = April 9, 2025
| title = Push Notifications
| image = push_notifications_2x.png
| imagesize = 277x347px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = NOTIFICATION: Now dismissing a head of the Notification Hydra… NOTIFICATION: Success! You have dismissed a head of the Notification Hydra!
}}
* To experience the interactivity, visit the [https://xkcd.com/3074/ original comic].

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a comment - did you know it's free to host a discussion on Wikipedia talk pages?- Please write a better overall explanation and explain other functions of the comic. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
This interactive comic is the 15th [[:Category:April fools' comics|April Fools' Day]] comic released by Randall, just over a week late. It uses {{w|push notifications}} to change the comic image over time and make other statements. A table of notifications can be seen at [[3074: Push Notifications/Table of Notifications]].

After viewing the comic for the first time, there is a sequence of notifications rendered over the comic itself. After clicking through these, you are provided with two buttons: one labeled "Emergency Stop" which will halt all notifications, and one labeled "Silence notifications at a cost" which will silence notifications at the cost of notifying two random people.

If you press silence notifications too much the laptop blows up.

Notification types include:
* One asking you to select a word, with further notifications to be sent whenever someone chooses the same word as you.
* A few starter notifications about this comic, the successful sending of a notification of this comic, and the lack of another comic.
* An announcement that an old comic was posted, specifying a comic and its publication date.
* A "streak" notification counting the number of times you've clicked it. The message changes every 10 clicks, and after 50 clicks there is an offer to make future clicks count twice, making this a simple version of {{w|Cookie Clicker}}. There are occasionally notifications encouraging you to keep clicking and "extend your streak," tempting you with "a free click to keep you going". After 400 clicks it will reset your clicks back to zero but makes all future clicks count four times. There will be new messages up to a total of at least 1000 clicks.
** Early notifications encourage further clicking.
** Approaching a hundred, the messages grow more concerned and later start warning that the server will crash or has crashed.
** Above 750: "Are you just doing this to annoy me?"
** 1000-2000: "Are you just doing this to annoy you?"
** Above 2000: "I guess it worked"
* A "have you seen my cat?" notification which spawns 7 clickable cats all over the comic (nonrandomly), including one on the edge of the Emergency Stop button.
* Cat fact notifications that appear when a cat is clicked, in reference to [https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/241/756/e6e.png this exchange].
* Various "erroneous errors" with a warning triangle, some with just flavor text, some corresponding to changes in the comic image.
** A "gravity malfunction" indicating a change to the floating image.
** An "Error 40¾" HTTP malfunction (with {{w|Zalgo text}} on the error code) indicating a change to the tentacle image.
** "I forgot whether I'm the server or the client."
** An error for not enough errors.
** An error for too many errors.
** A Kernel Panic indicating the Kernel can't remember what number comes after 38
** A notification claiming that your computer ballast needs emptying, along with the computer room being flooded
** "Your computer has encountered an error" indicating a change to the fire image.
** Error 418: {{w|Hyper Text Coffee Pot Control Protocol#Commands and replies|I'm a teapot}}.
* "Zoom notifications" including numeric coordinates, sometimes prefixed with "oh look!"
* "Constant reminders" stating what some constant will be "at the tone". (This is in reference to time-of-day phone services, largely obsolete since the popularization of the internet, which you could call to hear the exact time at a given tone.) There are also joke constants such as "your favorite number will be equal to 14," and some definitions are tautological or not related to the actual value of the constant. Constants include
** The silver ratio (1 + the square root of 2)
** The golden ratio (half of 1 + the square root of 5)
** Pi (the ratio between a circle's circumference and radius, and half of Tau)
** Zero (a real number)
** Your favorite number (14)
** The luminosity of the sun (L☉)
* A notification that offers to provide weather alerts for your location, which leads into a series of notifications asking whether you live in a named city.
* A reminder that the Earth spins at 1 rpd (rotation per day).
* A statement near an hour or half-hour time that the current time is five-o-clock somewhere.
* An invitation to subscribe to the "What if?" YouTube channel
* A notification with the heading "System Log" that reads (INFO): A user has paused notifications
* A reminder to comment and subscribe, leading to the Wikipedia page {{w|Talk:Mathematics}}, {{w|Talk:Romance}}, {{w|Talk:Language}}, or (presumably) {{w|Talk:Sarcasm}}, as these are the stated topics [[xkcd]] is about. Or {{w|Talk:Boneless}}, {{w|Talk:Sitting}}, {{w|Category talk:Unix text editors}}, {{w|Talk:Robot}}, {{w|Talk:Jamming avoidance response}}, or {{w|Talk:Drafting linen}}.
* A "{{w|Carriage return|Carriage Return}} Line Feed", referencing the Windows standard of storing line returns as a carriage return character followed by a line feed (newline) character. However, the xkcd Carriage Return Line Feed is instead a news feed concerning the next stop on a supposed "Carriage Return Line" of a train system.

The title text references the {{w|Lernaean Hydra}}, a multi-headed serpent-like monster from Greek mythology. In many stories, such as {{w|Labours_of_Hercules#Second:_Lernaean_Hydra|the second labour of Hercules}}, when one of its heads was cut off, two heads would grow in its place, resulting in more heads than before. Something similar has happened in the title text itself: there was a notification that was requested to be dismissed, and it created two more notifications notifying the user of the status of the dismissal.

The subdirectory where the images and scripts for this comic are stored is titled 'marconi,' which is likely a reference to the Italian engineer and inventor of the same name, {{w|Guglielmo Marconi}}, who is credited with inventing the radio, and did much work in the field of early communication systems.

Clicking the "Emergency Stop" button allows you to either restart the full game or to subscribe just to notifications for new comics.

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ {{nowrap|Table of comic images}}
! Image !! description
|-
| [[File:3074_normal.png|100px]] ||Cueball sitting at his desk, with his laptop.
|-
| || Cueball sitting at his desk, with a very large laptop.
|-
| || Cueball sitting at his desk, with a small potted plant.
|-
| || Cueball sitting at his desk, with a squirrel in the pot.
|-
| || Cueball sitting at his desk, with a much larger plant that has clearly outgrown the pot, at least vertically.
|-
| || Two images with the larger plant that also have cats in the leaves.
|-
| || Cueball sitting at his desk, with a cat in the foreground near the point of view.
|-
| || Cueball sitting at his desk, his chair replaced with a large cat.
|-
| [[File:3074_computer_fire.png|100px]] || Cueball sitting farther back from his desk, with the laptop on the desk on fire.
|-
| || Cueball, the desk, and the laptop floating in the air.
|-
| || Cueball sitting at his desk, shielding his face with his arm from a tentacle coming out of the laptop screen.
|-
| || Cueball spinning in his chair.
|-
| || Cueball sitting on the desk, facing the laptop on the chair.
|-
| || The desk vacant with "Game Over" displayed if you use the emergency stop.
|-
| || Cueball sitting on the desk, with a sword leaning against the desk.
|-
| || Cueball and Ponytail swordfighting while the computer has an hourglass icon, referencing [[303: Compiling]].
|-
| || The room flooded 2/3 of the way up the desk. Cueball is still sitting with his laptop.
|-
| || The same flooding, with a miniature sailboat behind Cueball.
|-
| || The same flooding, with a cat face behind Cueball.
|-
| || The same flooding, with a shark fin on the far side of the desk, facing toward Cueball.
|-
| || Cueball kneeling on the chair, which is raised up higher than the desk, and leaning over to use the laptop
|-
| || Cueball sitting at the desk, which has been extended behind his laptop like a long meeting table.
|-
| || No Cueball, only the chair, desk, and laptop.
|-
| || Cueball using the laptop on his lap, with no desk.
|-
| || Cueball with a squirrel on his head.
|-
| || A squirrel sitting at the desk, seemingly using the laptop.
|-
| || Cueball standing on top of the laptop keyboard.
|-
| || Cueball sitting at the desk, wearing a wizard hat.
|-
| || Cueball sitting on the floor behind the desk.
|-
| [[File:3074_tentacles.png|100px]] || Cueball sitting in his chair, shielding his face from a tentacle coming from the computer screen.
|-
| [[File:3074_cat.png|50px]] || The cat that appears after returning to the comic window after leaving it idle for long period of time. It has a unique title text of ":3".
|}

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
:[Cueball sits at a desk in an office chair. He is typing on a computer.]
:[Gray message boxes with a small circled “x” at the top right corner are shown:]
:Happy April 1st (observed)!
:To celebrate, we were excited to introduce a new xkcd.com feature: push notifications for new comics!
:Unfortunately, this feature has gone horribly wrong.
:Until further notice, we are asking people ''NOT'' to sign up for new comic notifications.
:Frankly, we recommend not even clicking on any notifications to learn more.
:''Click this notification to learn more!'' (a circled arrow is shown)

:“Push notifications for new comics” sounds like a simple feature, right?
:There’s a nice API for browser notifications. xkcd updates three times a week.
:So you just send a notification for each update, right?
:That’s what we thought, too.
:''Click to continue!'' (a circled arrow is shown)

:[To the side of the comic frame is a big, horizontal hexagonal stop sign]
:Sign: Emergency STOP
:Below the sign: ''Halt ALL notifications and forget everything''
:The good news is that we did build a button to stop xkcd new comic notifications.
:You can press this button at any time and the system will stop sending you notifications.
:The nightmare will be over and the server will forget you ever existed.
:This part definitely works.
:''The rest of the system does NOT work.'' (a circled arrow is shown)

:We’re sorry.
:We don’t know how things went so wrong.
:The system is sending more than three notifications a week. A LOT more.
:We cannot recommend signing up for xkcd new comic notifications at this time.
:''Click here to ignore the warnings.'' (a circled arrow is shown)

:No, really.
:Our notification system may send a large number of very real system notifications.
:These may flood your browser, displace other notifications, and cause problems.
:<big>⚠️DO NOT ENABLE XKCD NEW COMIC NOTIFICATIONS⚠️</big>
:''Yeah, I get it, but I definitely want to enable xkcd new comic notifications.'' (a circled arrow is shown)

:Are you sure?
:''Yes!'' (a circled arrow is shown)
:Absolutely sure?
:''YES!!'' (a circled arrow is shown)
:To enable push notifications on mobile you need to add xkcd.com to your home screen.

:''Click here to subscribe to xkcd notifications''

:[Initial static image shows Cueball sat on an office chair at a desk using a laptop computer. A notification 'window' is speech-bubbled above the computer]
:[Grey notification box, header:] April 1st (Observed)
:[Notification box, further text:] Open xkcd.com to view.
:Laptop: [Warning sign.]

:[When viewed live, various xkcd-style popover notifications appear, each can be dismissed or (usually the last on every page) invited to press an 'onwards'-style button.]

:[First page of messages]
:Happy April 1st! To celebrate, we were excited to introduce a new xkcd.com feature: Push Notifications for new comics!
:Unfortunately, this feature has gone horribly wrong.
:Until further notice, we are asking people NOT to sign up for new comic notifications.
:Frankly, we recommend not even clicking on any notifications to learn more.
:[Notification with 'onwards button':] ''Click on this notification to learn more''

:[Upon choosing to continue, further messages appear, replacing any prior ones left open]
:"Push Notifications for new comics" sounds like a simple feature, right?
:There's a nice API for browser notifications, xkcd updates three times a week.
:So you just send a notification for each upafte, right?
:That's what we thought, too.
:[Notification with 'onwards button':] ''Click on this notification to continue''

:[Next set of popover messages]
:The good news is that we did build a button to STOP xkcd new comic notifications.
:You can press this button at any time and the system will stop sending you notifications.
:The nightmare will be over and the server will forget you ever existed.
:This part definitely works.
:[Notification with 'onwards':] ''The rest of the system does not work.''
:[To the right of the comic frame, a red, octagonal button has white text upon it:]Emergency Stop
:[Below the button is red text:] Halt all notifications and forget everything

:[Next set of popovers, "stop" button remains permanently so long as you continue]
:We're sorry.
:We didn't know how things went so wrong.
:The system is sending more than three notifications at this time.
:['Onwards' notification:] ''Click here to ignore the warnings''

:[Next set.]
:No, really.
:Our notification system may send a large amount of very real system notifications.
:These may flood your browser, displace other notifications, and cause problems.
:[Text bookended by warning triangles:] Do not enable xkcd new comic notifications
:['Onwards':] Yeah, I get it, but I definitely want to enable xkcd new comic notifications

:[Just two popovers, initially]
:Are you sure?
:['Onwards':] Yes
:[On clicking onwards, two more appear below]
:Absolutely sure?
:['Onwards':] Yes!!
:[On clicking, a further popover]
:[Red-tinted 'onwards'-style popover with warnings:] Click here to subscribe to xkcd notifications.

:[...something appeared then dissappeared...]
:[Genuine(?) browser dialogue activated:] xkcd.com wants to send you notifications. Block / Allow

:[If allowed, one more popover in the original style]
:Success!!
:[Below the Emergency Stop button, an oval gray button appears labeled in white:] Silence notifications at a cost
:[Below that, in grey text:]Temporarily pause your notifications at the cost of notifying two random people.

:[Further changes include the contents of the pane, whether Cueball is sat at the laptop, whether the laptop is larger, or a pot-plant, whether there are cats in the frame, outside the frame, sat on the Stop buttons, whether Cueball is sat on a large cat instead of an office chair...]
{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Interactive comics]]
[[Category:April fools' comics]]

Talk:1142: Coverage

2025-04-04T08:43:07Z

172.69.195.172:

Perfect explanation this time! [[Special:Contributions/83.81.90.213|83.81.90.213]] 07:48, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
:Why thank you! It's a great change from being flamed indirectly for some omission in my explanations. I usually don't quite get some of the comics myself, so I just create the explanation pages for all the new articles and let wiki magic fill in the blanks. [[User:Davidy22|Davidy22]][[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 11:36, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

I always thought that a Faraday Cagematch would be the perfect end to the Tesla/Edison feud. --[[User:Philo Pharynx|Philo Pharynx]] ([[User talk:Philo Pharynx|talk]]) 14:42, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
:Bazinga!--[[User:Joehammer79|Joehammer79]] ([[User talk:Joehammer79|talk]]) 14:44, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

You might want to mention that the "cage match" is a type of match in "professional wrestling" (the "sports entertainment" that you see on TV), not to be confused with the traditional sport of wrestling (the type you see in the Olympics). {{unsigned|174.1.228.168|10:16, 6 December 2012 (UTC)}}

I find myself thinking that the smack in the face could be in direct retaliation for the Faraday Cage/Cage Match play on words being so awful. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.195.172|172.69.195.172]] 08:43, 4 April 2025 (UTC)

Talk:3055: Giants

2025-02-26T11:23:04Z

172.69.195.172:

Anyone know why "the Man in the Moon" has square brackets around it? Stylistic choice, or clever reference? [[Special:Contributions/172.71.254.43|172.71.254.43]] 19:38, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

:I suspect it's to make it clear that it's all one block of text, otherwise it might be read as separate objects on each line. [[User:IntangibleMatter|IntangibleMatter]] ([[User talk:IntangibleMatter|talk]]) 20:01, 24 February 2025 (UTC)
::I thought that too but then Jolly Green should be in brackets as well. I think it's because Man in the Moon doesn't have "giant" after it. The rest all assume "giant" after (gas giant, etc.).[[Special:Contributions/162.158.63.81|162.158.63.81]] 20:07, 24 February 2025 (UTC)Pat
:::I think that the difference between these two cases is just a matter of available space. The space around "Jolly/Green" makes it clear that the two words go together, whereas "The/Man in/the Moon" would be crammed together even if the three lines were supposed to be distinct, unless the font was a lot smaller. The brackets remove that ambiguity. [[User:BunsenH|BunsenH]] ([[User talk:BunsenH|talk]]) 21:36, 24 February 2025 (UTC)
:Given how commonly this community makes up answers, and how very little information there is on this, I suspect the correct answer to this question to not emerge here, but maybe somebody can make an argument that is actually convincing. It's certainly notably different and I didn't think much of it until seeing it mentioned. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.63.28|162.158.63.28]] 20:33, 24 February 2025 (UTC)
:I think it's because unlike all the other entries in the diagram, it is not appropriate to append the word "Giant" to the end of it. Like, it's the full name of a particular giant, rather than a "type" of one as otherwise implied by the title of the chart. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.7.194|172.69.7.194]] 22:38, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

Alas, if only the Norse had referred to Ymir and his descendants as "Ice Giants" instead of "Frost Giants", we might have had another contender for that central space. [[User:MeZimm|MeZimm]] ([[User talk:MeZimm|talk]]) 20:35, 24 February 2025 (UTC)
:Oh, let's not get hung up on what things are correctly named – the renaming of the Iron Man to the Iron Giant has always seemed very clumsy, but, alas, seems to have stuck.[[User:Yorkshire Pudding|Yorkshire Pudding]] ([[User talk:Yorkshire Pudding|talk]]) 11:05, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

Been a while since Randall's enthusiasm for Buns (rabbits) made an appearance in the comic! [[Special:Contributions/172.70.130.216|172.70.130.216]] 05:36, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

Classifying the Atacama Giant and Cardiff Giant as 'Geological / Planetary' seems pretty dubious - requires an unusually broad interpretation of one or other of those terms.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.163.109|172.70.163.109]] 09:57, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
:I didn't see this when doing so, but the intro explanation's use of "geological" needed editing ('maybe-quoted') to encompass the MITM's more accurately ''selenological'' nature, and (being lunar) it also really isn't "planetary", either.
:Assuming that "planetary" is the fallback for rock-like stuff that isn't properly Earthly, it's a questionable fallback given that the Moon is... only a moon! At best, it's "a moon of a planet", but then the semantic alternatives are limited (a moon of a ''dwarf-planet'', is the only alternative I can currently think of, until we also see 'moons' of artificial constructs given a planet-like status).
:But I also can't think of a better reduction/refinement (for ourselves, or that Randall might have better used for his current self-selected set), so contented myself with employing minor punctuated vaguity. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.4|172.70.90.4]] 14:25, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
:: In planetary science, [https://www.planetary.org/worlds/what-is-a-planet the moon is a planet]. [[User:EebstertheGreat|EebstertheGreat]] ([[User talk:EebstertheGreat|talk]]) 03:47, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::: ...according to The Planetary Society, who ''of course'' want to keep their remit as wide as possible. ;) (But as even they acknowledge, right at the start of the article, it depends who you ask. And once you ask the IAU...) From the root 'wanderer', ''anything'' moving against the 'fixed' background of stars. Including any random Starlink that isn't sufficiently unreflective. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.195.172|172.69.195.172]] 11:23, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

Poor André is once again left out [[User:Pmeisel|Pmeisel]] ([[User talk:Pmeisel|talk]]) 14:11, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
: New York didn't get a mention either, even though [https://www.space.com/michael-strahan-blue-origin-ns-19-photos#:~:text=On%20Dec.,their%20epic%20mission%20in%20pictures.&text=The%20NS-19%20crew. at least one of them] has been to space.[[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.58|172.71.178.58]] 17:27, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

May iron giant be a reference to {{w|iron star|iron stars}} that may exist (if protons do not decay) c. 101500 years from now? [[Special:Contributions/172.71.194.113|172.71.194.113]] 15:47, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
: No, it's a reference to the character in the book and movie who came from and could fly in space. Thus he is both not real and (fictionally) in space. [[User:EebstertheGreat|EebstertheGreat]] ([[User talk:EebstertheGreat|talk]]) 03:49, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::"Iron star" is also used for a blue ''supergiant'' with FeII lines, with η Car being a possible example of ''that'' iron star. Those iron stars ''are'' real, ''are'' giants, and ''are'' in space. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.194.49|172.71.194.49]] 10:43, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
::Noting that the Iron Man/Giant was not in space for the overwhelming majority of his depiction on page (or film? ...never seen that), which would perhaps be the best measure of his (fictional) existence. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.195.172|172.69.195.172]] 11:23, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

Talk:3049: Incoming Asteroid

2025-02-11T21:14:37Z

172.69.195.172: adding comparison between the strip 3049 to 2878

Asteroids are surprisingly destructive even at small sizes - I remember reading somewhere that the Armageddon movie asteroid was supposed to be "the size of Arlington, Texas", but that it sounded too small so they changed it to "the size of Texas" which is a drastic size increase and also proportionally far more deadly. For scale, Arlington is 250 square km and Texas is 700 000 square km. The Chixulub asteroid that wiped out the dinosaurs was between 10 and 15 km across. If it was a perfect circle, it would have an area of between 79 and 176 sq km. Arlington would be 18 km across, still within "species" range, and Texas would be 944 km across, clearly in "new moon" territory. But it _sounds_ much cooler! [[User:Zakator|Zakator]] ([[User talk:Zakator|talk]]) 22:32, 10 February 2025 (UTC)
:And that's for asteroids with normal speed (for asteroid, which is still kinda fast). The level of danger asteroid means is proportional to kinetic energy, meaning proportional to mass and SQUARE of speed, so if it's faster, it gets to extinction level even when small ... -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 23:29, 10 February 2025 (UTC)
:: "for asteroids with normal speed" - which is generally orbital velocity. If much faster, it would have left the solar system by now. If much slower, it has fallen into the Sun already. All objects (even Teslas) at a given distance soon have similar velocities. --[[User:PRR|PRR]] ([[User talk:PRR|talk]]) 00:04, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
::: It could be going at ''a'' speed (similar to Earth, give or take, for the sake of being on an Earth-incident orbit) and yet have such different effects. If basically following the Earth (or leading it), it'll be relatively gentle, at least before you start considering the Earth's (and the asteroid's, in the event it's significantly large) gravity well pulling it. Well, 'gentle' in comparison to one doing the 'same speed' but in the anti-orbit, for a full head-on impact. Course, that's why we need to think of velocities, and in particular the relative ones. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.241.37|172.71.241.37]] 01:31, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Considering just two-body physics... Escape speed for the Sun at the distance of Earth's orbit is 42 km/s, so that's the upper limit anything is likely to be going (otherwise it's just got one shot at us). That would be something falling towards the Sun from a very large distance. If the asteroid is moving in the opposite direction as Earth, that gets added to Earth's orbital speed of 30 km/s, for a total of 72 km/s. On the other hand, Earth has an escape speed of 11 km/s at the surface, so that's the lower bound for an impact. A 6.5x factor on speed is about a 40x factor on impact energy. Which, I'm not sure exactly how that would scale devastation, but ... I'll take the low end for anything big, thanks. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.111.22|172.70.111.22]] 14:18, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

The 1m danger makes me think of the meteor impact that was caught on a home security camera last July in Prince Edward Island. But the Sky & Telescope article https://skyandtelescope.org/astronomy-news/hear-the-first-ever-recording-of-a-meteorite-slamming-into-the-ground/ says that it would have been only a 6-7 cm across. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 00:42, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

The sizes in the explanation are out of sync with the image. Has Randall updated it, or may it be location dependent? ~~Guest~~ 07:12, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
:I saw the comic before any explanation was put up and it was the same as it is now, all exactly powers of 10. But the labels aren't exactly at those spots, so people are probably estimating the exact point where the labels are at, though my interpretation would be that Randall meant for the labels to be attached to ranges rather than points. [[User:Tharkon|Tharkon]] ([[User talk:Tharkon|talk]]) 11:45, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
::Same here, all powers of 10. I don't think it makes any sense at all to guess at where on the axis the labels are meant to be when the labels themselves give an explicit number. The labels should probably be the ranges, eg "1cm to 10cm", "10cm to 1m" and so on.[[User:Mazz0|Mazz0]] ([[User talk:Mazz0|talk]]) 14:00, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
:::There are small markers between the labeled spots, so it's not unreasonable to estimate which marker the ellipsis points to. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 14:41, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

"Good news everyone! We were supposed to make a delivery to the planet Tweenis 12 but it's been completely destroyed!" [[Special:Contributions/162.158.94.203|162.158.94.203]] 11:24, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

It's not the first comic comparing our reaction to different scales of cosmic events, even though the asteroid "happiness level" does not peak like the supernova chart: https://xkcd.com/2878/

2922: Pub Trivia

2024-04-19T14:13:40Z

172.69.195.172: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 2922
| date = April 19, 2024
| title = Pub Trivia
| image = pub_trivia_2x.png
| imagesize = 422x666px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = Bonus question: Where is London located? (a) The British Isles (b) Great Britain and Northern Ireland (c) The UK (d) Europe (or 'the EU') (e) Greater London
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a TRIVIAL BOT - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

The comic shows Cueball reading off bad trivia questions which are either confusing or don't have an answer.
The caption states that this is because he was paid to sabotage other bars that offer trivia so that people will want to go to the one that hired him.

1. Which member of BTS has a birthday this year?

BTS is a K-Pop group. Every member would have a birthday in 1 year.

2. How many sides does a platonic solid have?

4, 6, 8, 12, or 20 in Euclidean 3-space

3. What is the smallest lake in the world?

Unknowable as there are many small bodies of water in the world, and determining which is the smallest while still being large enough to count as a lake is a complicated question.

4. Which Steven Spielberg movie features more shark attacks? Jaws (1875) or Lincoln (2012)

Jaws, as Lincoln has a surprising lack of shark attacks.

5. How many planets were there originally?

Question lacks context, since it doesn't define what originally means, and there is no way to know when humans first found out that the wandering stars were actually other worlds, or that Earth is a planet.

6. What NFL player has scored the most points outside of a game?

As points are not usually scored outside of games, this is a nonsense question.

7. The Wright brothers built the first airplane. Who built the last one?

Since airplanes are built continuously, there is no way to know who built the last one.

8. Is every even number greater than2 the sum of two primes?

This is [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldbach%27s_conjecture an open question in math].

9. Not counting Canberra, what city is the capitol of Australia?

Nonsense question, since each country only has one capitol (citation needed)

10. Who played the drums?

Lots of people, needs context.

The alt-text bonus question:

Bonus question: Where is London located? (a) The British Isles (b) Great Britain and Northern Ireland (c) The UK (d) Europe (or 'the EU') (e) Greater London

All choices are technically correct as they are all names for the same geographical area.


|}

This is apparently deliberate (at least on behalf of the organisers), perhaps to upset or otherwise impede groups of overconfident quizzers who would otherwise dominate any genuinely good quiz. -->

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

{{comic discussion}}

2611: Cutest-Sounding Scientific Effects

2024-04-17T15:17:49Z

172.69.195.172: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 2611
| date = April 25, 2022
| title = Cutest-Sounding Scientific Effects
| image = cutest_sounding_scientific_effects.png
| titletext = The Stroop-YORP number of a scientific paper is how many of the 16 finalist names (sans 'effect') it manages to casually sneak into the text.
}}

==Explanation==
[[Randall]] has compiled [[:Category:Tournament bracket|yet another]] {{w|Tournament bracket|single-elimination tournament bracket}} for a knock-out competition, by public vote, between 16 different scientific effect names that he seems to consider worthy of being cute-sounding.

As of the release day, he is determining the result in a [https://twitter.com/xkcd/status/1518701311763570689 series of Twitter polls]. These results are shown [[#Result of the Twitter polls|here]].

See [[#Effects|below]] for explanations for what each of the 16 effects are.

Several unrelated scientific effects were previously combined in [[1531: The BDLPSWDKS Effect]], which also included the Stroop effect (the last S).

In the title text, Randall coins the term "Stroop-YORP number" as a count of how many 'casual' references a future publication can sneak into it from the 16 finalist names for cutest effect. It specifies that it should be without the word effect after the words (sans 'effect').

Tongue-in-cheek 'counting scores' are familiar in the likes of the {{w|Erdős_number|Erdős}} and {{w|Bacon_number|Bacon}} numbers, both of which are referenced by [[599: Apocalypse]] (the latter only in the title text). In these cases the ideal is to get the ''lowest'' number, whereas here higher is better. The cross-field hybrid {{w|Erdős–Bacon number}} is one in which the desired score is the lowest sum of both values (neither being undefinable) by dint of having participated in both arenas of respective achievement, but not necessarily (or practically) in a single combined presentation.

For instance the Stroop-YORP number could be high for a wildlife paper. That could possibly use "butterfly" and "rabbit" (possibly needing the latter to be specifically 'cutaneous', to count), which may both be found in "little parks" with some "popcorn" seen littered around without too much "oddity"; and of course a (Dr.?) "fox" could be in the area, getting a score of 6. But other words may be a stretch, with an imaginative reference to a "woozle" possibly easier to employ than to evoke anything of the "nocebo".

On the other hand, for a space-science paper there may be more obvious (mis)uses for physics-related terms, and mentioning YORP might well be expected. But it may need creative thinking to introduce the rabbit or the more psychological idea of Stroopicity, etc, without reason to discuss the responses of animal or human payloads being sent there.

It is not actually obvious whether Randall intends the score to only be valid if the insertions are off-field and/or undetected, such as when someone is wagered that they can slip unrelated song lyrics or a 'hello' to {{w|Jason Isaacs}} into a public speech without the rest of the audience twigging.

A search of google scholar indicates many articles with a score of 2 (e.g. [https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/87559129.2012.714435 this paper], which refers to butterfly shaped popcorn), but 3 or more seems to not be attested.

==Effects==
;{{w|YORP effect}}: The YORP effect is the effect of sunlight on an asteroid with variations of shape and/or albedo, which can increase its rotation rate and/or modify its axis of rotation. It can cause objects to eventually spin apart or drastically change their orbit.
:It is an acronym of the names Yarkovsky, O’Keefe, Radzievskii and Paddack, who were instrumental in its discovery. More than a century ago, Yarkovsky determined that heat applied to a symmetrical rotating body would be asymmetrically re-emitted and apply a small but continuous thrust, and this was added to by considering the forces to non-symmetrical bodies.
;{{w|Nocebo effect}}: An effect in which a recipient of medication who believes that it will have negative side-effects is more likely to experience those negative side-effects, whether they can be really caused by the medication or not. Opposite of the {{w|placebo effect}}, which focuses on positive side-effects that arise beyond the true efficacy of a given treatment.
:''Nocēbō'' is Latin for “I shall harm”, coined to oppose ''placēbō'', “I shall please”.
;{{w|Woozle effect}}: If a study gets repeatedly cited and otherwise disseminated, then people will start to believe it regardless of whether it has any evidence behind it. And if there is not any evidence, it becomes an urban myth.
:Named after a Winnie-the-Pooh story in which Winnie-the-Pooh and Piglet try to catch an imaginary animal called a woozle, and accidentally follow their own tracks in circles.
:A similar effect was discussed in [[978: Citogenesis]], wherein a sourceless statement on Wikipedia can become apparently credible via simple repetition.
;{{w|Stroop effect}}: The Stroop effect (referenced in [[1531: The BDLPSWDKS Effect]]) is a psychological phenomenon in which it is easier to name the visual color of a word when the word refers to its own color, than when the word refers to a different color; i.e. the fact that saying that '''Red''' is red is easier than to say that '''Blue''' is green.
:Named after {{w|John Ridley Stroop}}.
;{{w|Pockels effect}}: A phenomenon where an electric field passed through a medium can cause the medium's refractive index to depend upon the polarization and propagation direction of the refracted light, a property known as {{w|birefringence}}.
:Named after {{w|Friedrich Carl Alwin Pockels}}.
;{{w|Cheerios effect}}: A phenomenon where objects floating in a liquid appear to attract or repel each other.
:Named after the cereal Cheerios, which are an everyday demonstration of this phenomenon because many eat Cheerios in a bowl of milk.{{citation needed}}
;{{w|Hot chocolate effect}}: A phenomenon where the sound created by tapping a cup of hot liquid rises in pitch as a soluble powder is added.
;{{w|Perky effect}}: An experiment in which participants were asked to visualize an object while staring at a screen on which the outline of that object was subtly projected. Participants believed the projected shape to be only a product of their imaginations.
:Named after {{w|Cheves Perky}}.
;{{w|Bouba/kiki effect}}: An observation that people, despite different native languages, will relatively consistently assign names with certain sounds to blobby or spiky shapes, suggesting the association of sound and shape is non-arbitrary. ''Bouba'' and ''kiki'' were two of the words used in the experiment.
;{{w|Cutaneous rabbit effect}}: A phenomenon where, when tapped on one part of the body in rapid succession and then switching to another, the subject feels the tapping at locations in between the two.
:For example, if rapidly tapping the wrist then switching to the elbow, the subject will subjectively feel as if they are being tapped at progressive intervals between the wrist and elbow, when they are not.
;[https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/smallfirmeffect.asp Small firm effect]: An economic theory that small firms usually perform better than larger ones
;{{w|Little–Parks effect}}: A phenomenon where a fluctuating magnetic field passed through a superconductor can slightly suppress its superconductivity, inducing small fluctuations in its electrical resistance.
:When juxtaposed against the "small firm effect", as in the bracket, one might get the impression that it is somehow related to urban architecture or civil engineering.
;{{w|Dr. Fox effect}}: A disputed theory that student evaluations of their teachers are likely unreliable, because they are largely based on the teacher's charisma instead of the quality of their content.
;{{w|Oddity effect}}: A theory that when fish assemble in shoals (large social groups), any that stand out appearance-wise will be attacked by a predator, explaining why shoals tend to have similar-looking members.
;{{w|Butterfly effect}}: The butterfly effect is the sensitivity of chaotic systems to small changes in initial conditions. The weather system of Earth is chaotic, and so an arbitrarily small change in air patterns (such as could be caused by the flapping of a butterfly's wing) could ultimately change the weather for the whole world.
;{{w|Popcorn effect}}: A phenomenon exhibited by crushed ore placed on a vibrating screen for separation in mineral processing, in which larger particles tend to bounce higher than smaller particles.

==Transcript==
:[A tournament bracket tree is shown with 16 scientific effect names, with 8 on the left and 8 on the right side. From both sides toward the middle the brackets reduce from eight to four, to two, then to one line where the latter join to a rectangle in the middle for the winners name of the final match. Above the bracket there is a title:]
:<big>Cutest-Sounding Scientific Effects</big>

:[Left side:]
:YORP effect
:Nocebo effect

:Woozle effect
:Stroop effect

:Pockels effect
:Cheerios effect

:Hot chocolate effect
:Perky effect

:[Right side:]
:Bouba/kiki effect
:Cutaneous rabbit effect

:Small firm effect
:Little Parks effect

:Dr. Fox effect
:Oddity effect

:Butterfly effect
:Popcorn effect

==Trivia==
* Randall has created [https://twitter.com/xkcd/status/1518701311763570689 Twitter polls] to determine the outcome of this version of his [[1819: Sweet 16|sweet 16]]:

===Result of the [https://twitter.com/xkcd/status/1518698708824727554 Twitter polls]===
====First wave====
The first wave ran from April 25, 2022 at 5:19pm ET to the next day at 5:42pm ET.
* [https://twitter.com/xkcd/status/1518701311763570689 '''YORP effect (67.7%)''' vs Nocebo effect (32.3%)], 8,996 votes
* [https://twitter.com/xkcd/status/1518702773075943425 '''Woozle effect (74.4%)''' vs Stroop effect (25.6%)], 8,517 votes
* [https://twitter.com/xkcd/status/1518704819720044544 Pockels effect (42.4%) vs '''Cheerios effect (57.6%)'''], 7,513 votes
* [https://twitter.com/xkcd/status/1518705352342228998 '''Hot chocolate effect (56.2%)''' vs Perky effect (43.8%)], 7,379 votes
* [https://twitter.com/xkcd/status/1518705724737662977 '''Bouba/kiki effect (64%)''' vs Cutaneous rabbit effect (36%)], 7,563 votes
* [https://twitter.com/xkcd/status/1518706168440541194 Small firm effect (18.4%) vs '''Little Parks effect (81.6%)'''], 7,209 votes
* [https://twitter.com/xkcd/status/1518706772999118848 '''Dr. Fox effect (67.5%)''' vs Oddity effect (32.5%)], 7,852 votes
* [https://twitter.com/xkcd/status/1518707180320481280 '''Butterfly effect (56.5%)''' vs Popcorn effect (43.4%)], 7,825 votes

====Second wave====
The second wave started on April 26, 2022 at 5:56pm ET and ended around 11:56am ET.
* [https://twitter.com/xkcd/status/1519073013781647365 YORP effect (35.7%) vs '''Woozle effect (64.3%)'''], 7,026 votes
* [https://twitter.com/xkcd/status/1519074868637147138 Cheerios effect (49.5%) vs '''Hot chocolate effect (50.5%)'''], 6,672 votes
* [https://twitter.com/xkcd/status/1519077131376074754 '''Bouba/Kiki effect (72.8%)''' vs Little parks effect (27.2%)], 7,466 votes
* [https://twitter.com/xkcd/status/1519079116993183749 Dr. Fox effect (47.9%) vs '''Butterfly effect (52.1%)'''], 6,752 votes

====Third wave====
The third wave started on April 27, 2022 at 6:54pm ET and ended around 12:54pm ET.
* [https://twitter.com/xkcd/status/1519450011674759169 '''Woozle effect (71.2%)''' vs Hot chocolate effect (28.8%)], 8,237 votes
* [https://twitter.com/xkcd/status/1519455938096373761 '''Bouba/Kiki effect (77.6%)''' vs Butterfly effect (22.4%)], 7,223 votes

====Fourth wave====
The fourth wave started on April 28, 2022 at 4:30pm ET and ended around 10:30pm ET.
* [https://twitter.com/xkcd/status/1519776107821740033 Woozle effect (46.1%) vs '''Bouba/Kiki effect (53.9%)'''], 10,774 votes

====Bonus wave====
* [https://twitter.com/xkcd/status/1520109683503161344 '''Bouba (57%)''' vs Kiki (43%)], 9,723 votes

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Science]]
[[Category:Scientific research]]
[[Category:Tournament bracket]]

Talk:2909: Moon Landing Mission Profiles

2024-04-16T13:26:25Z

172.69.195.172:

Direct assent was a common method in many sci-fi movies. Including the classic {{w|From the Earth to the Moon (film)|From the Earth to the Moon}} [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 19:18, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

It feels like it needs an addition of more detail from the planned Artemis mission. In several ways it's going to be a "multiple rockets, assembled in orbit" plan (if not Earth orbit, then Lunar), with SLS and Orion scheduled to be cooperating with the Lunar-Starship launch (later, maybe, other independently craft)... which is itself almost a "one big rocket" solution, sticky-taped onto the plan. That's with or without the addition of the dedicated and semi-manned Lunar Gateway moon-orbiting element. I mean, most of the prototypical Apollo-era plans (DA, EOR, LSR and LOR) had their own crazy bits to them, and the full Artemis premise definitely seems crazy as well, if only because the LOR version got chosen for Apollo and pretty much got proven to work. (Or worked enough to even get 13 back home safely!) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.254|172.70.85.254]] 21:04, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
:Which mission profile will the artemis missions use? --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.202.135|162.158.202.135]] 06:58, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
::From wikipedia:
:: Artemis 3 (2026) is planned to be the first crewed lunar landing. The mission depends on a support mission to place a Starship Human Landing System (HLS) in a near-rectilinear halo orbit (NRHO) of the Moon prior to the launch of SLS/Orion. After Starship HLS reaches NRHO, SLS/Orion will send the Orion spacecraft with a crew of four to rendezvous and dock with HLS. [...]
::...so it's a kind of Lunar Orbit Rendezvous With Multiple Launches (not sure what its official name is, probably something as pithy as "Skycrane" was). Certainly not unambiguously any one of the main types considered for Apollo/in this comic. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.194.225|172.69.194.225]] 09:17, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
::: So it's both an earth orbit rendezvous and a lunar orbit rendezvous? --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.94.201|162.158.94.201]] 07:15, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
:::: Depends on how you define the SpaceX contribution (in the [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Artemis_III_CONOPS.svg current plan].
::::*In Earth Orbit, there is due to be unmanned refuelling of the Lunar Starship from 'normal' Starships, which is a sort of EOR, I suppose.
::::**But the Apollo EOR would have been basicically building up small bits, assembling 'a Moon rocket' in space that could avoid the LOR rendezvousing but was too big to launch in one go. The Saturn V helped there, in becoming good enough at lifting to not ''need'' the EOR stage, along with other mission refinements.
::::*Lunar Starship and Orion capsule (and, later, other items, including the Lunar Gateway) meet up in Lunar Orbit ''prior'' to any landing, fulfiling a "multiple rocket LOR" hybrid, one could say.
::::**The equivalent phase for Apollo was the 'pointy bit' command module temporarily disconnecting from the lunar lander (stowed behind it in the same rocket) and reconnecting nose-to-nose (or nose to head?), but it wasn't really a full rendezvous, just a reconfiguration of bits already floating around together. And this happened on the way between Earth and Moon, anyway, so isn't in either Lunar ''or'' Earth orbit. Could have been either, but it just happens in a 'quiet' bit of the mission profile, and probably they also needed the TLI burn to happen before they started messing around 'unpacking' the LM from its shroud, etc.
::::*Lunar Starship then goes down to land on the Moon (hopefully) mirroring Apollo's LM separating from the CM
::::**But none of the plans ever refer to any ''undocking'' stages, by name. Even the Direct Launch approach would probably require disconecting from bits of the rocket stack that they'd discard, at various points, rather than the Single-Stage-To-Moon-And-Back of the Tintin rocket and other popular SF versions of the era.
::::*LS then LORs with Orion (again, hopefully!), as that Starship model isn't going to be useful in getting back down to Earth. It'll perhaps be left for use by the next Orion to arrive (and maybe they'll get more fuel to it), if everything goes to plan.
::::**This is the LOR bit that the used Apollo profile ''really'' refers to, because ascent-stage of the lander had to meet up again with the command module in order to return home. Again, this lander was not set up to get the crew back to Earth (no use carrying heat-shields/etc down to the Moon and back if you didn't have to...), though most bits of landers were either left on the Moon (descent stages) or crashed back into it (ascent stages, once the crew had transfered back), without any plans for re-use by later missions.
::::*Pretty much every plan (past and current) has ''whatever'' kind (and state) of vehicle that departs the Moon then coming straight back into the re-entry (though discarding the last bit of rocketry below the capsule might still be required).
::::**It's possible that future missions will add a post-landing EOR (or similar), perhaps so that Orion's successor can be a reusable ferry back and forth between Earth orbit (ISS/whatever) and Moon orbit (Lunar Gateway/etc) and not need the capsule heat-shield/parachutes, instead crews can hitch rides up/down on Crew Dragons or similar HLSs.
::::Perhaps let's call the Artemis plan something like Multiple Rocket Earth Orbit Refueling Lunar Orbit Rendezvous/Reusable Rockets (MREORLOR/RR, but only cats can pronounce that properly). [[Special:Contributions/172.70.160.166|172.70.160.166]] 11:43, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

I see Lunar Earth Rendezvous will be bad for Earth's climate, tides, stock markets and ecosystems. Has anyone considered the impact this will have on the trout population? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.111.48|172.70.111.48]] 00:02, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
:What is the deal with trout? I’ve seen trout population mentioned in 2 places online. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.3.44|172.68.3.44]] 17:42, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
:: from a quick google search on "Trout and the moon":
:: > Anglers often report that trout may be caught all night long on a bright moonlight night. It seems reasonable that when fish feed at night they may have a tendency to feed less than usual dur- ing the day, which in turn may affect the catch.
:: Also:
:: > The idea behind fishing by moon phases is that the bigger the tide, the more active the fish. The strongest tides happen twice a month: during a new moon, when the sun and moon are both pulling in the same direction, and during the full moon, they're pulling on either side of the planet. {{unsigned ip|162.158.154.170|21:07, 15 April 2024}}

The choice of Lunar Orbit Rendezvous wasn't easy for the Apollo planners. Thanks to John Houbolt, the "voice in the wilderness" as he called himself, NASA finally adopted LOR rather than Direct Ascent or Earth Orbit Rendezvous they were planning in the early 60's. [https://www.popsci.com/blog-network/vintage-space/remembering-john-houbolt-nasas-voice-wilderness/ Remembering John Houbolt, NASA’s Voice in the Wilderness] [[User:Orion205|Orion205]] ([[User talk:Orion205|talk]]) 01:09, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
:When you think about it, the complex (re)docking procedures for happen entirely beyond Earth orbit (for all Moon-bound missions). The uncovering of the LM and crew-connection made from the CM early in TLI, and the return of the ascent stage to rendezvous with the CM in lunar orbit.
:How tempting must it have been to just have a single, 'uncomplicated' lander that doesn't rely on potentially awkward coordination well beyond any conceivably timely 'rescue shot' from Earth (LEO construction variations might realistically be still somewhat inaccesable, at the time, but there might yet still have been a chance to do something with a handy 1B sitting on a pad just in case.)
:But it turned out Ok. Maybe better than Ok, as Aquarius (13's LM) was an important temporary 'lifeboat', whereas any single-craft-to-Moon solution with the same engineering failure might have left the crew with nowhere near as survivable a situation.
:As Eleven's initial landing maybe showed (had to choose another landing spot from the one initially aimed for), the Lunar Surface Rendezvous seems to me the trickiest 'rendezvous' variation. At best, the preparatory 'reception lander' might have needed to have been sent again, when the first one encountered the bad landing zone (either landed badly or landed okish but revealed awful conditions to send the manned expedition). At worst, the manned craft lands but not realistically close enough to perform the intended fuel transfer, and very little that they can do about it by then.
:So, looked at one way, it was a crazy decision. In another, it was just workable enough to avoid all the problems that the various other schemes had? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.43.225|172.69.43.225]] 09:01, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Randall's been thinking a lot about space recently. No complaints from me. [[User:MrCandela|MrCandela]] ([[User talk:MrCandela|talk]]) 02:08, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
: He's probably playing KSP2 :D [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 08:35, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Getting astronauts to the moon isn't hard. Getting them there (and back) in one piece is.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.76|141.101.98.76]] 10:18, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
:[[2906: Earth|Yes, Carl...]] ;) [[Special:Contributions/172.69.194.81|172.69.194.81]] 13:04, 21 March 2024 (UTC)