explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

Talk:2313: Wrong Times Table

2020-06-09T06:56:45Z

172.69.69.220:

I wonder if there is such a mathematical expression which follows the definition of "multiplication" as in advanced calculus which actually provides the results on the table; i.e, some sort of bijective homomorphism that maps v: V*V --> V

Such an illogical table. Smaller numbers multiply to larger answers than larger numbers? Even numbers multiply to odd numbers?! How?!?! What sort of illiterate alien declared this to be the multiplication table?! [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.101|108.162.221.101]] 20:54, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
:Feels like an element of logarithmic thinking, like the idea that the space between 1 and 2 is greater than between 99 and 100, or that 3 is halfway to nine. [[User:ancepsinfans|ancepsinfans]] 21:24, 2 June 2020 (MSK)

This is easily one of the worst XKCD comics, period. Not funny, nor clever. Just seems like noise. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.68.183|172.69.68.183]] 20:57, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
:I suspect Randall may have just been feeling random, perhaps after several months of mostly Coronavirus-related comics. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 21:13, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
::That's fair, I'm being a bit harsh, but this just comes across as exceptionally meaningless and contrived, so much so that I felt the need to come here and comment immediately for the first time ever [[Special:Contributions/172.69.71.56|172.69.71.56]] 21:18, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
:I relate to certain mathematical facts not sounding right, like how 54 intuitively feels like it's divisible by 4. Nonsensical, but makes sense anyway. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.233|162.158.62.233]] 21:42, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

This seems like the multiplication equivalent of looking at a word and thinking it is spelled incorrectly. Sometimes I look at a simple word like "fish" and think: "That can't be right." Sometimes multiplication can feel that way, particularly 7's because those were tricky for some reason. The alt text confirms fishiness with 7's [[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.173|108.162.246.173]] 21:09, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
:Is it weird that I ''don't'' get this? I have this sense of "that is obviously wrong" when it comes to multiplication of small numbers like these, even with sevens and eights. If I read that 7 * 8 = 54, my brain screams "NOOOOOOOOO IT IS 56 YOU IDIOT!". [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.101|108.162.221.101]] 21:14, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
::It's lucky for you! Careless errors [of all types] can be annoying, and sometimes difficult to locate... Some of us have ingrained this information better than others. (This comic seems less like a joke and more sharing a hindrance Randall suffers from when doing arithmetic. And speaking personally, I can certainly relate to that.)[[Special:Contributions/162.158.78.50|162.158.78.50]] 18:05, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
::I wouldn't say it's weird, but maybe you don't get it because you're better at the memorisation or multiplication that we were taught in school. Try spending a few hours working in base nine or base thirteen, you might see how you commonly make the same errors. I know that I have difficulty with multiplying even small numbers, so I take longer to do it so I infrequently make these common errors. But I do like to work in other bases occasionally so I can vaguely relate to the subject matter of this comic. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.41|162.158.74.41]] 18:20, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
::I never fully memorized the times tables, to this day (50+ years later) I use tricks... 7*6? Well, I know the 5's, and 7*5=35, so now add another seven.... 42? I've always preferred to understand how to get to an answer than to memorize the answer, for some reason. Stuff I use frequently or that are especially useful (i.e. 5's) I end up memorizing of course, but things like 7's not so much. I suspect Randall is the same way. [[User:N0lqu|-boB]] ([[User talk:N0lqu|talk]]) 16:49, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
:::In fact, your example, where 7*8 screams 56 to you? I used my method and, like Randall, kept coming up with 54. 8*5=40, plus two more sevens (14) = 54. Feels right, but for some reason it's not. Took some head scratching to realize... it should have been two more EIGHTS, not two more sevens. Here's where the memorization thing would have been better. [[User:N0lqu|-boB]] ([[User talk:N0lqu|talk]]) 16:55, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Well, 2,2 that's actually 2^3=8. 2,3 is addition instead of multiplication. 1,2 is division instead of multiplication. 1,1 is subtraction. 10,10 seems to be a visual gag, though most of the 10s row is either multiplication by 11 or 12... There's some logic to some of these, but it's different for each row, column, or cell. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.167|162.158.74.167]] 21:13, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
:Yeah, there is something going on. It looks like a lot of it is remembering the correct answer to a different problem. By my count 55 squares are the correct answer to a square next to it and 31 have a correct answer for somewhere else on the grid. Also, 2*2, 4*4 and 5*5 are double the correct answer.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.76|108.162.245.76]] 21:41, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

It's almost disappointing that he didn't hide one or two asymmetries in there just to throw us off! [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.114|108.162.216.114]] 22:04, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
:I think that was his nerd-snipe, there are no asymmetries (currently). [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.41|162.158.74.41]] 18:20, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

I get the idea that this is the sort of table you'd get if you tried to train an Adversarial AI from scratch to determine x*y purely by stochastic guessing and comparing to a co-evolving 'scorer' that also starts off naively but supports each answer according to the 'rightness' it thinks it has ''except'' for the real answer which is always hard-coded to be down-scored. (Also noting that DA reportedly came by his choice of 42 by asking people which numbers were 'funnier' than others, which can be said to be a similar kind of process but without the arrayed "original multiplication" element.) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.179|162.158.158.179]] 22:13, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

As someone who often confuses 7*8 as 54, I found the alt text very humorous. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.34.118|172.69.34.118]] 22:29, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

I'm disappointed to see that 6*9 isn't equal to 42. [[User:Probably not Douglas Hofstadter|Probably not Douglas Hofstadter]] ([[User talk:Probably not Douglas Hofstadter|talk]]) 23:01, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

This is just a collection of equations with the wrong answers. I'm not sure who finds this funny. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.96|108.162.219.96]] 00:33, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
:It's not funny per se, it's relatable.

https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1210:_I%27m_So_Random[[User:Overlord of oddities|Overlord of oddities]] ([[User talk:Overlord of oddities|talk]]) 01:16, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

I have asked [https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/q/205425/67157 a Code Golf Stack Exchange question] with the goal of producing the shortest program that computes this function. [[User:Aaron Rotenberg|Aaron Rotenberg]] ([[User talk:Aaron Rotenberg|talk]]) 02:29, 30 May 2020 (UTC) @Aaron I had a similar thought, but was going to settle for the generator function for the main diagonal. If we can come up with one, we should submit it to https://oeis.org/ [[User:Cellocgw|Cellocgw]] ([[User talk:Cellocgw|talk]]) 13:30, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

I'm disappointed that 17 does not show up in any product cell, seeing as I've known since at least 1970 that 17 is the world's most random number. <-- a fact proved for a limited case here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JPSJL7Kvus [[User:Cellocgw|Cellocgw]] ([[User talk:Cellocgw|talk]]) 13:35, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

I too was unimpressed with this... unitl I got to the alt text. I'm in my sixties now, and for some reason, 8*7 has ALWAYS been difficult for me. I find myself always doube-checking to make sure I did it right. And 6*7 gave me problems too, but I got over that a few decades ago. I wonder what it is about those that gave us trouble. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.75|162.158.62.75]] 14:35, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

I do not believe that the table was constructed rationally, but intuitively by Randall. He took the two factors (in both permutations) and thought, which resulting number he felt best about. It is more like a psychological experiment than a table constructed with a system or code in mind. Sebastian --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.89.193|162.158.89.193]] 16:27, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Am I the only one who reads the author's intention slightly differently? I don't think that he intended that these values feel more correct than the real multiplication table. Rather, I thought he meant that from all possible ''wrong'' values, these feel ''most'' correct to him. In this way, I at least could sympathise with many values given here. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.238.216|162.158.238.216]] 17:34, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
:Agreed--he doesn't feel that the answers are incorrect, but rather, if he were given the problem on a test, "True or False: One times two equals one half.", he'd have to think for a minute. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.78.50|162.158.78.50]] 18:08, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
::I just edited that (first) bit, myself, before seeing your comments. I hope this version is better for you (might need further editing later in the paragraph, but stil considering this). [[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.201|162.158.158.201]] 19:12, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

I don't know whether I am reading too much into this, but couldn't it be an allusion to all contemporary anti-science and anti-rational movements? We hear a lot of times from this kind of people that they do not need big professors to tell them what is true, because they now what "feels right" to them. What feels right to them may be just as wrong as this multiplication table, but that does not stop them to keep believing it. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.69.135|141.101.69.135]] 21:28, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

"...this probably doesn't mean anything." Douglas Adams himself confirmed that the 6*9 in base 13 was a coincidence. He said himself in a BBC interview, "I don't make jokes in base thirteen." --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.26|108.162.237.26]] 02:22, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

"The title text (referencing Randall's suspicion that 6x7=42 may be wrong) is an allusion to The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy," Are we sure that this is an allusion to HGG? Not everything that has 42 is an allusion to HHG, there's no mention of the ultimate question or answer, nothing but a comment that 6x7 doesn't feel like it should be 42. Seems pretty irrelevant to include it in the explanation.[[User:Argis13|Argis13]] ([[User talk:Argis13|talk]]) 23:22, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Oh, haven't had a "Randy, get out of my head" moment for a while. After the rhyme and reason of 5x5 and 6x6 the multiplication by 7 has always felt off to me, too.

All of use who spent a few hours trying to find a formula have been nerd-sniped. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.71.56|172.69.71.56]] 15:02, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Hmmm. I'm sure these some logic to these numbers, we just can't see it. I 'feel' they're not random. Anyway, who can get their one times table wrong ? Also, is there anything solid about the text being a H2G2 reference ? Other than the mention of 42 ? Does H2G2 mention 56 ? And why do the whole multiplications of 6's, 7's and 8's (yeh I know, errant apostrophe's but it feels better this way) get people (including me) all at {{w|all sixes and sevens|sixes and sevens}} (apparently worldwide - Chinese & Russians too). [[Special:Contributions/162.158.155.80|162.158.155.80]] 12:21, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

___
I immediately interpreted this comic as a social commentary about the increasingly subjective ("feeling"-based approach) our world leaders and their influencees have to well established fact. This may not be the author's intention but it left me feeling satirically satisfied.
[[Special:Contributions/172.69.68.57|172.69.68.57]] 05:30, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

2313: Wrong Times Table

2020-05-29T22:02:26Z

172.69.69.220: /* Explanation */ Not a real reference, maybe an allusion

{{comic
| number = 2313
| date = May 29, 2020
| title = Wrong Times Table
| image = wrong_times_table.png
| titletext = Deep in some corner of my heart, I suspect that real times tables are wrong about 6x7=42 and 8x7=56.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by 6x7. Please mention here why this explanation isn't complete. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
A "times table" (or {{w|multiplication table}}) is a table used to define multiplication between numbers. Typically, elementary school children are taught to memorize the table as part of learning arithmetic.

In this comic, [[Randall]] "feels" that some values in the table are incorrect and so he supplies his own alternate version of the times table, with incorrect values. It is unclear how his values are derived, as they don't follow a discernible pattern - some values are from adding the multiplicands together, or subtracting them, or dividing them, or adding or subtracting one from one or both the multiplicands before multiplying them (and then perhaps adding or subtracting one from the result), and others seem random. It is notable that some properties of mathematics are not followed, as sometimes smaller multiplicands multiply to a larger product than larger multiplicands, and sometimes two even multiplicands produce an odd product.

The times table is symmetric, indicating that Randall's form of multiplication is [[wikipedia:Commutative property|commutative]].

The title text (referencing Randall's suspicion that 6x7=42 may be wrong) may be an allusion to ''{{w|The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy}}'', in which the ultimate answer to life, the universe, and everything is said to be forty-two. However, this answer is meaningless without knowing the ultimate ''question'', and so a planet-sized computer is constructed to calculate the ultimate question, which later becomes Earth, but Earth is destroyed shortly before its calculation is complete. Arthur Dent, one of the last surviving humans, attempts to recreate the ultimate question (hoping it may be stored within himself somehow, as a remnant of Earth) by picking letter tiles from a bag, and produces the sentence "WHAT DO YOU GET IF YOU MULTIPLY SIX BY NINE". This leads him to remark "I always thought something was fundamentally wrong with the universe." (6x9 = 42 in base thirteen, but when asked about this, Douglas Adams replied, "I may be a sorry case, but I don't write jokes in base 13.") In this table, neither 6x7 nor 6x9 are said to result in 42, but 7x7.

The "correct" times table for the numbers from 1-10 is below:
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align: center;"
! ×
! scope="column" | 1 || 2 || 3 || 4 || 5 || 6 || 7 || 8 || 9 || 10
|-
! scope="row" | 1
| 1 || 2 || 3 || 4 || 5 || 6 || 7 || 8 || 9 || 10
|-
! scope="row" | 2
| 2 || 4 || 6 || 8 || 10 || 12 || 14 || 16 || 18 || 20
|-
! scope="row" | 3
| 3 || 6 || 9 || 12 || 15 || 18 || 21 || 24 || 27 || 30
|-
! scope="row" | 4
| 4 || 8 || 12 || 16 || 20 || 24 || 28 || 32 || 36 || 40
|-
! scope="row" | 5
| 5 || 10 || 15 || 20 || 25 || 30 || 35 || 40 || 45 || 50
|-
! scope="row" | 6
| 6 || 12 || 18 || 24 || 30 || 36 || 42 || 48 || 54 || 60
|-
! scope="row" | 7
| 7 || 14 || 21 || 28 || 35 || 42 || 49 || 56 || 63 || 70
|-
! scope="row" | 8
| 8 || 16 || 24 || 32 || 40 || 48 || 56 || 64 || 72 || 80
|-
! scope="row" | 9
| 9 || 18 || 27 || 36 || 45 || 54 || 63 || 72 || 81 || 90
|-
! scope="row" | 10
| 10 || 20 || 30 || 40 || 50 || 60 || 70 || 80 || 90 || 100
|}

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
:[Caption above table:]
:<big>Wrong Times Table</big>
:The incorrect answers that feel most right to me

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align: center;"
!
! scope="column" | 1 || 2 || 3 || 4 || 5 || 6 || 7 || 8 || 9 || 10
|-
! scope="row" | 1
| 0 || ½ || 4 || 5 || 6 || 7 || 8 || 9 || 10 || 9
|-
! scope="row" | 2
| ½ || 8 || 5 || 6 || 12 || 14 || 12 || 18 || 19 || 22
|-
! scope="row" | 3
| 4 || 5 || 10 || 16 || 13 || 12 || 24 || 32 || 21 || 33
|-
! scope="row" | 4
| 5 || 6 || 16 || 32 || 25 || 25|| 29 || 36 || 28 || 48
|-
! scope="row" | 5
| 6 || 12 || 13 || 25 || 50 || 24 || 40 || 45 || 40 || 60
|-
! scope="row" | 6
| 7 || 14 || 12 || 25 || 24 || 32 || 48 || 50 || 72 || 72
|-
! scope="row" | 7
| 8 || 12 || 24 || 29 || 40 || 48 || 42 || 54 || 60 || 84
|-
! scope="row" | 8
| 9 || 18 || 32 || 36 || 45 || 50 || 54 || 48 || 74 || 56
|-
! scope="row" | 9
| 10 || 19 || 21 || 28 || 40 || 72 || 60 || 74 || 72 || 81
|-
! scope="row" | 10
| 9 || 22 || 33|| 48 || 60 || 72 || 84 || 56 || 81 || 110
|}

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Math]]

2260: Reaction Maps

2020-01-27T21:35:39Z

172.69.69.220: /* Transcript */

{{comic
| number = 2260
| date = January 27, 2020
| title = Reaction Maps
| image = reaction_maps.png
| titletext = If Google Maps stops letting you navigate to (Clay County District) A in West Virginia, you can try Jump, OH -> Ina, IL -> Big Hole, TX.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a Google Maps Server. Please mention here why this explanation isn't complete. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

The {{w|Treaty of Edinburgh}} was a treaty drawn up in 1560, which falls during the {{w|Tudor period}} of the history of England, while a compact is another word for a treaty. A {{w|Honda Civic}} is a compact car with a {{w|coupé}} body model and only two doors. The joke is thus a pun on the similarity of the words "Tudor" and "two-door", as well as a pun on the words "treaty" and "compact."

The [https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Truly,+MT+59421/Saari,+L'Anse+Township,+MI+49946/Toulouse,+Kentucky/A,+Clay+County,+WV/Friendship,+South+Carolina/This+Way,+Lake+Jackson,+TX+77566/@37.8633069,-104.4114003,5z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m38!4m37!1m5!1m1!1s0x53424d6552eab029:0xb7fcd8937da3ec25!2m2!1d-111.4413578!2d47.3557881!1m5!1m1!1s0x4d50e1468af1ce9b:0xb02e7ce99f9e641a!2m2!1d-88.3092692!2d46.8784933!1m5!1m1!1s0x8844b40da22762bf:0xee4cd8dba67a2afa!2m2!1d-83.3269444!2d37.1766667!1m5!1m1!1s0x884943786da899b1:0x5eb17b45f77f3480!2m2!1d-81.0533854!2d38.5410076!1m5!1m1!1s0x88ffff04df8a3dc1:0x2e50cd1fdf10df52!2m2!1d-79.4353317!2d34.0168293!1m5!1m1!1s0x864043e6372e0009:0x1372621459655543!2m2!1d-95.4597276!2d29.0382495!3e1 list of map destinations], Truly, Saari, Toulouse, A, Friendship, This Way is a way of saying, "Truly sorry to lose a friendship this way".
The [https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Hope,+NY+12134/Yoe,+PA/Fallin+Lake,+Magnolia+Township,+AR/@38.2022776,-88.2430258,6z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m20!4m19!1m5!1m1!1s0x89df00206dc519a7:0x8c095186fc80dee1!2m2!1d-74.2431907!2d43.3036812!1m5!1m1!1s0x89c8886da851113b:0x96fa3e47edbd1953!2m2!1d-76.6369116!2d39.9089887!1m5!1m1!1s0x8633c43fa49e5997:0x864650e233fea97b!2m2!1d-93.3167015!2d33.2840166!3e1 list of map destinations], Hope, Yoe, Fallin Lake is a way of saying, "Hope you fall in [a] lake".

So the first person texts the car joke, and the second person gets mad and replies that their friendship is over.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
Texting Tip
________

Is your reaction too intense to be expressed in an emoji or gif?

Try using driving directions!

The extra research it requires shows how strongly you feel.

[Ponytail is texting Cueball]

You should name your new Honda Civic ''The Treaty of Edinburgh''

Because it's a tudor compact

Get it

[Cueball looks angry]

[Cueball sends Ponytail driving directions that go through Truly, Saari, Toulouse, A, Friendship, and This Way]

[Cueball sends Ponytail driving directions that go through Hope, Yoe, and Fallin Lake]

{{comic discussion}}

Talk:2008: Irony Definition

2020-01-11T08:43:13Z

172.69.69.220:

Adding to the irony are the complaints from overeducated drama fans criticizing common uses of the term, assuming that "dramatic irony" is the only valid definition. Search "alanis morissette ironic misuse" for lots of fun with semantics and pseudo-intellectualism. I suspect that Randall is poking fun at the critics, rather than those who misuse the term. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.142.89|172.68.142.89]] 17:56, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

* I agree it's poking fun at the critics. The explanation should include correct examples of irony that even non-USA pedantics agree meet the definition.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.82|108.162.216.82]] 19:03, 18 June 2018 (UTC)Pat

Should mention be made that a possible motivation of this comic is President Trump's misuse of the word "ironic" 11 days earlier in a tweet? [https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1004693718945984512]
[[User:Heshy|Heshy]] ([[User talk:Heshy|talk]]) 18:40, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
: Eleven days ago seems a bit distant to be an inspiration. It's not like this comic is infrequently updated.... [[Special:Contributions/172.68.59.30|172.68.59.30]] 23:51, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

If sarcasm is a type of irony, is this question ironic? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.82|162.158.126.82]] 20:19, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Since when is Canada not part of America? :) [[User:RandalSchwartz|RandalSchwartz]] ([[User talk:RandalSchwartz|talk]]) 02:09, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

;Incorrect interpretation
> The most common types of irony are sarcasm and paradox. Black Hat is using the latter

I think this interpretation misses the point. Whatever about sarcasm and paradox being examples of irony (I'm pretty sure sarcasm at least is not, paradox I'm not sure about either - irony is more about metacommentary than direct paradox), but Black Hat's statement isn't paradoxical anyway. Black Hat is using the term "irony" incorrectly, both in the comic and the title text. In the comic, be states that Cueball knows the definition of irony, implying that he, Black Hat does not. Cueball is angry that Black Hat is using "ironic" incorrectly.

Furthermore, the extra meta layer is that while Black Hat's statement is not ironic, the situation in the comic is ironic in itself: it's ironic that the Black Hat is choosing to use ironic in various statements even though he seems to imply that he knows full well that he does not know the definition of the word.

--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.38.4|162.158.38.4]] 06:45, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

I disagree with the paragraph 'Blackhat is deliberately using his ignorance of language to mock Cueball by stating that it is "ironic" that he is using the word "Irony" without knowing what it means, but is still the happy one. This is both the grammatically correct use of the word "Ironic" and arguably itself an ironic situation.' For one thing, if he's ignorant of the definition of Irony then he can't be deliberately using said ignorance to be ironic, but that's OK because he's not being ironic. There's nothing ironic about him being the happy one despite not knowing what irony means - I would imagine that's true of many people, whilst many irony pedants are unhappy. {{unsigned ip|162.158.155.206}}

The current explanation is incorrect. Irony can be defined as a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often amusing as a result. Therefore, Black Hat is using the word correctly in the comic, as Cueball's idea that being right will make him happy opposes the reality that by understanding what is correct he is only frustrated when people use the word incorrectly. In the Title Text, Black Hat uses the word incorrectly to further justify the point made above, that Cueball's expectations are subverted because knowledge only brings him frustration. {{unsigned ip|162.158.78.130}}
:I wouldn't say the explanation is absolutely correct, thus the incomplete-tag is still in there, but your definition isn't better than the current explanation. Irony is a statement, but an event can be ironic. Your third sentence overwhelms me and the title text is told by Cueball (Black Hat glares at him.) BTW: Please do not insert your comment into others and also do not forget to sign your post. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 20:01, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

;Probably the worst explanation here for ever
First I've moved this following sentences to this discussion (small comments by me in parentheses):
*The misuse of the word ironic when one means especially inconvenient is a common one, with a well-known example being Alanis Morissette's song "Ironic". (Not irony in many parts)
*This issue represents one that exists on a larger scale with so-called "Grammar Nazis" correcting grammar and word choice in ways that do not affect the overall meaning. (This not about Grammar Nazis)
*In the comic, Blackhat misuses the word ironic by saying that it's funny, because even though he didn't use a word correctly, he is not upset about it. (Slightly still in the explanation)
*The title text then continues the joke by misusing the word 'ironic' as if it were a feeling. (Cueball just misspells something)
Then I've written a first draft, please help. And one more: It's ''ironic'' that a German native speaker has to figure out how the humor at this comic works. I'm sure I don't cover all. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 22:28, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

;Major cleanup
Okay, I've pretty much reworked the page, hopefully in a satisfactory way. I think the incomplete tag can go pretty soon. --[[User:Sensorfire|Sensorfire]] ([[User talk:Sensorfire|talk]]) 18:10, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
:At the title text Cueball replies to Black Hat who glares at him as shown in the picture. I'm still convinced he says ''ironic'' when he means ''iconic''. In this interpretation the sentence "It makes me feel really ironic" makes much more sense because Cueball is annoyed by Black Hat pursuing him. And unless someone explains why this view is nonsense it should be added to the explanation. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 21:33, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
::Your view doesn't really make sense because it (1) doesn't really fit with the comic and (2) is a real stretch. As for the first point: the joke of the comic is that Black Hat is intentionally misusing the word "ironic" to annoy Cueball, who presumably has been pedantic about this. So it makes sense that this joke would be continued in the title text, with Black Hat misusing the word in an even more absurd way. As for the second point: Nobody uses the word "iconic" like that. It doesn't fit with the joke of the comic and it's a ridiculous usage that Cueball, presumably as an "ironic" pedant, wouldn't use. Furthermore, Cueball is shown in the comic to be upset and/or angry (with the little black line thing over his head). The word ''glare'' connotes staring at someone angrily, which Cueball would be at Black Hat for his crimes against the word "ironic", but Black Hat would not be angry at Cueball. He's just being his typical, sadist, classhole self. So, your view is totally ruled out by {{w|Occam's Razor}}, because it relies on a change in the joke, a character behaving uncharacteristically, and extremely unusual usage of 2 separate words. I'm sorry, Dgbrt, but your view really doesn't make sense. --[[User:Sensorfire|Sensorfire]] ([[User talk:Sensorfire|talk]]) 16:14, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
:::There are not always ''correct'' explanations. But there are no crimes in this comic, Black Hat is just annoying Cueball while looking at him and not vice versa. The phrase "stop glaring at me" is a meme which also should be explained. Nonetheless: Black Hat glares at Cueball, I can't see anything else in the picture. An alternative view at the explanation should be valid.
:::Maybe irrelevant but funny, the are glasses called [https://www.abbaopticalusa.com/catalog-1 Ironic Iconic]. I'm not a native English speaker so maybe there is something more I do miss.
:::BTW: I've moved the current title text section to the bottom. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 20:22, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
::::It's true that we can't always find the 100% correct explanation that captures exactly what Randall intended in every way. That said, I think this one is actually fairly clear-cut. In the comic, Black Hat is annoying Cueball by misusing the word "ironic". In the title text, then, it would make sense for this joke to continue. As to "crimes", there are no ''literal'' crimes in this comic. I was using an idiom there, though it's understandable if you didn't get that. As to who is looking at who, it's true that Black Hat appears to be looking at Cueball as they walk. However, he is not ''glaring''. The word "glare" in this context could only refer to the definition, "to stare with a fiercely or angrily piercing look" or similar. Black Hat isn't angry. He's having a great time bothering Cueball. Cueball is angry. It's entirely possible that between the comic and title text, Black Hat passed in front of Cueball, or that the comic is actually an angled view of BH and Cueball walking side-by-side, or even that Cueball just turned around to glare. I don't know that "stop glaring at me" is a meme; an internet search for the phrase found nothing particularly memetic. If you can provide a good alternative explanation, then feel free, but I don't think many editors would agree with the one you gave previously. --[[User:Sensorfire|Sensorfire]] ([[User talk:Sensorfire|talk]]) 14:10, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::Sadly no one else has an opinion here.
:::::Furthermore I've to apologize for not saying thanks to your major cleanup; I typically say thanks before I criticize minor parts. Sorry for that.
:::::But for the title text you still didn't convince me. Assuming that "Black Hat passed in front of Cueball" is a guess not shown or even hinted in the comic, meaning, this assumption has to be mentioned. Which still brings me to the view that Black Hat is looking at Cueball after he finished his talking, Cueball is irritated and annoyed and shouts back. But, gulled as he is, he used a phonetic similar word. But I assume you still fully disagree...
:::::--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 18:13, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::It's no problem at at all! The page badly needed a cleanup, and I had some time to kill. We're all just here to make the wiki better. ^_^
::::::But yes, I really do have to disagree with your interpretation of the title text. It's contingent on an odd use of the word "glare" and an even more odd usage (and misspelling/mispronunciation) of the word "iconic". I know you're not a native English speaker, but nobody I know who is one would ''ever'' say that someone glaring at them "makes me feel really iconic". Take the [https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/iconic Webster's definition of "iconic"]. None of these definitions are things that someone you know and are on a walk and in conversation with would feel if you glared at them. And again, how would this even continue the joke? I think your interpretation is oddly convoluted; it's certainly not something I would have ever thought of upon reading it, and I don't think most editors here would have, either.
::::::On the other hand, the interpretation that it is Black Hat speaking makes more sense because (1) it continues the joke that was made in the comic, (2) it is within character for Black Hat to continue pestering Cueball by misusing the word "ironic", (3) it better fits the definition of the word "glare" (as Cueball is shown to be angry, and BH is not), (4) the only odd word usage involved is that of the word "ironic", which, again, continues the established joke and is thus expected, and (5) the only real potential problem with it is easily resolved. It is true that Cueball appears to be in front of Black Hat, which would make it odd for him to be looking at Black Hat. But I offered 3 possibilities above that resolve this (Black Hat could have walked ahead, it could simply be an angled shot of them walking side-by-side, Cueball could have looked back at BH), none of which are particularly unparsimonious or unlikely.
::::::If we could get another editor to chime in, that would probably helpful. --[[User:Sensorfire|Sensorfire]] ([[User talk:Sensorfire|talk]]) 20:34, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::I'm not sure I qualify as another editor, since I just made my account to reply to this thread. Maybe I will do some good editing in the future. But I am a native english speaker, and I have to agree with Sensorfire: no one would use the word "iconic" the way Dgbrt has described. I would have have made this assumption in reading the comic and don't think anyone else I know would have made this assumption either, because it's not a normal usage of english. I ''do'' think people would use the word "ironic" the way Black Hat did (and mean to say "ironic"), as people use this word in all sorts of ways to mean all sorts of things, including to pester people who struggle with other people using words incorrectly, as it seems Black Hat is doing here. --[[User:Fivestones|Fivestones]] ([[User talk:Fivestones|talk]]) 16:26, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::::Thanks for your remarks and explanations. Maybe I should go back to school... Nahh, I don't believe my former English teachers would understand this comic at all... I'll remove the incomplete tag soon. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 18:06, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
Suggestion, couuld we add the Narration from the code to this page? Narration: The narrator stands on a beach at night, staring out across the moonlit ocean. 
Narrator: THE SEA ALWAYS MAKES ME REALIZE 
Narrator: HOW SMALL I REALLY AM. 
Narrator: I SHOULD GET ONE OF THOSE PUMPS. 
Tooltip: And then a second one, to drain the ocean. 
and PS I love ToolTip and wish we ccould use it always instead of "title text".[[Special:Contributions/172.68.54.166|172.68.54.166]] 08:46, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
:Your transcript belongs to this comic: [[450: The Sea]]. And we're using the notation "title text" since the very beginning here, you're a little bit late for this discussion. And in fact it's based on the HTML-attribute at the image-tag. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 18:06, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Maybe overthinking this one? In discussions, one would naturally expect someone who knows a words meaning (and is thus equipped to comprehend what it conveys in the discussion) to be happier than one who does not (and can thus only attempt to infer its meaning from context, or, if context provides no clarity, merely... wonder.) But in this particular case, Cueballs frustration with Black Hats ignorance is entirely due to his own knowledge of the words meaning, while Black Hats ignorance provides his bliss: The outcome is the opposite of what one would naturally expect from the given situation, and therefore ironic. On a deeper level, Cueball could argue this demonstrates Black Hat DOES, in fact, know ironys meaning and is simply PRETENDING ignorance deliberately and solely to frustrate Cueball (i.e. being his typical classhole self.) But Black Hat could then respond that it is possible (and common) to be unwittingly ironic, even about the very meaning of irony itself (which would be further evidence he knows ironys meaning full well, yet still not conclusive PROOF he does.) It is reminiscent of the Liar Paradox, with the added complication that stating a falsehood is not a lie unless the speaker knows the statement is false and intends it be perceived as true. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.69.220|172.69.69.220]] 08:43, 11 January 2020 (UTC)