explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

Talk:2846: Daylight Saving Choice

2023-10-26T16:27:35Z

172.70.100.194:

I instead suggest that we make the DST shift 12 hours. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.1.190|172.68.1.190]] 15:16, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

:I have better idea: What about observing the DST change in fall but ignoring the DST change in spring? -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 21:18, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

::Even better: 12 hours backwards shift in fall, no shift in spring. Sure, it would lead to confusion, but it’d also be really funny. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.58.135|172.68.58.135]] 04:59, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

The terrorist plot wasn't thwarted by this kind of proposal. It was just due to the fact that DST laws differ between countries. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 15:31, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

: The Palestinian terrorist plot on 5th September 1999 definitively was. One group of terrorists switched to ST as decided by authorities, while other refused to and used DST. [[User:Abukaj|Abukaj]] ([[User talk:Abukaj|talk]]) 16:36, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

When I read the comic, I applied it to this upcoming clock change which would turn the clocks back to "standard" time. Thus the ironic joke is that if you don't like daylight savings time then don't change your clocks, so you are then stuck in daylight savings time forever. [[User:Rtanenbaum|Rtanenbaum]] ([[User talk:Rtanenbaum|talk]]) 18:46, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
:This was also my initial (and continuing) impression... [[Special:Contributions/172.71.242.190|172.71.242.190]] 23:43, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
::Added a (larger than intended) paragraph to this end. On the presumption that, at each biannual clock-changing moment, the policy translates the current feelings of the person into whether they ''must'' add/remove an hour (even opposite to what they think they should do).
::If I had realised that it'd be so lengthy an 'explanation', before starting to edit, I'd have maybe added a Trivia-like section, or just inserted the ideas within it down here in Talk.
::I do believe that Black Hat's part in the announcement indicates an intentional multi-tiered chaos of this kind (rather than if a Cueball, where it might indeed be only "on/not-on DST" for the relevent half the year for single-order chaos). If anyone wishes to shift it out of the main Explain, or compress it, could they perhaps make sure that Black Hat's inherent disruptivity is still clearly mentioned there/here? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.42|172.70.86.42]] 11:20, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

== Average 39 minutes ==

While this figure makes sense (rather than 30 minutes) it was still slightly unexpected at first; as DST has a duration of 238 days, the average year-round time would be 238/365 hours ahead of Standard, or 39 minutes and 7.4 seconds. 
(Or, to factor in that a leap day occurs in 97 of every 400 years, 238/(365 ⁹⁷⁄₄₀₀) = 39 minutes and 5.8 seconds)

In fact, the original DST duration was set to actually be 6 months long (last Sunday of April to October), before being extended in 1987 and 2007 to reach its current 34 weeks.

[[User:SomeDee|SomeDee]] ([[User talk:SomeDee|talk]]) 15:23, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

I was wondering where that number came from... trust him to use the most absurd metric possible for averaging, instead of, for instance, the average deviation of sunrise, solar noon, or sunset... or even their earliest or latest times. - [[Special:Contributions/172.68.2.102|172.68.2.102]] 17:17, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

I haven't calculated for myself what US DST would actually average out at (presuming Randall is correct), but 'average year-round clock offset' for Europe (inc. UK, at least currently) would be different because it starts ''one week earlier'' (last Sunday in March, rather than first Sunday in April, if I remember the months right). One fifty-twoth of an hour (going straight to how the weightings change, rather than calculating the full averages in my head anew) is going to be slightly more than a minute of difference, so probably in the realms of UTC(+regional hourly shift)+40minutes. Maybe even +41 if it rounds off over into the ''next'' minute. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.242.175|172.71.242.175]] 22:15, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
:It also ends two weeks earlier, (Middle of October instead of first week of November), so I'm really not sure on the actual difference. I just know that it's a headache for a couple weeks on either end for multinational meetings. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.100.194|172.70.100.194]] 16:26, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

== Major health ==

> "''has been found to cause major health problems''"

Citation needed.

One reported factoid:
''"..a group of U.S. researchers ...determined that heart attack risk jumped 24 percent the Monday after switching over to daylight saving time. .....dropped 21 percent on the Tuesday after the fall time change."''
https://www.heart.org/en/news/2018/10/26/can-daylight-saving-time-hurt-the-heart-prepare-now-for-spring
24% in fall, 21% in spring, suggests 3% net, which is more likely margin-of-error than major-problem.

"has been suggested" or "controversial" but not "has been found".

:So it basically evens out? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.23.90|172.69.23.90]] 18:26, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

:Your link doesn't work. Also, does it means the heart attack risk is worse whole half year? -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 21:18, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia's article cites [https://web.archive.org/web/20140313140334/http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/11/131101-when-does-daylight-savings-time-end-november-3-science/ this National Geographic article] [[User:SomeoneIGuess|someone, i guess]] ([[User talk:SomeoneIGuess|talk]]) 20:35, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

== Personal Inclination ==

I haven't changed clocks for DST in years. That system is garbage; it doesn't even fall on obvious days. When someone says a clock is off, shrug & say "That's debateable. This one's right year-round, how often do you have to set yours?"
[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 17:36, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
: Huh? So you're an hour late or early for half the year? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.215.9|172.70.215.9]] 21:29, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
: What would be "obvious days"? The equinoces, I suppose would be the astronomical absolutes, but they vary by several (calendar) days, and does this mean that clocks change at their hour, minute and second, regardless of whether in the middle of a week ''and workday''..? Also, the benefit (or otherwise) of any given date changes by latitude. And on what sleep cycles (early mornings or late evenings) any given person has. Equinox-nailed switchovers (or even tied to month-endings, say March 31st 24:00 to September 30th 24:00) just don't help much more (maybe less) than current versions. Heck, it's arbitrary, as might be many other choices, but it seems to keep disruption to the minimum (during changeover), and if the redistribution of hours isn't to your liking (a farmer may get up at/before dawn ''every day'', regardless of what pesky clocks say, 'cos animals and crops don't 'adjust' by our method) then that's up to you. But I bet some things will change around you and you at least need to mentally adjust to what time everyone around you decides it is. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.232|172.70.85.232]] 23:58, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
:Clock time is itself arbitrary. Why 12 hours twice instead of, say, 10 hours for one cycle per solar day? The answer boils down to "In ancient times, it was easy to divide 12 into fractions in your head. Also, counting hours at night was harder (no sundials) and less important (because pre-electricity, most people just slept)." [[User:Nitpicking|Nitpicking]] ([[User talk:Nitpicking|talk]]) 03:28, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
::Easy in modern times, too, since 12, 24, and 60 are {{w|highly composite number}}s and 10 can't even divide into thirds or quarters… [[User talk:AgentMuffin|~AgentMuffin]] 04:25, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Talk:2846: Daylight Saving Choice

2023-10-26T16:26:54Z

172.70.100.194: /* Average 39 minutes */

I instead suggest that we make the DST shift 12 hours. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.1.190|172.68.1.190]] 15:16, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

:I have better idea: What about observing the DST change in fall but ignoring the DST change in spring? -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 21:18, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

::Even better: 12 hours backwards shift in fall, no shift in spring. Sure, it would lead to confusion, but it’d also be really funny. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.58.135|172.68.58.135]] 04:59, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

The terrorist plot wasn't thwarted by this kind of proposal. It was just due to the fact that DST laws differ between countries. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 15:31, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

: The Palestinian terrorist plot on 5th September 1999 definitively was. One group of terrorists switched to ST as decided by authorities, while other refused to and used DST. [[User:Abukaj|Abukaj]] ([[User talk:Abukaj|talk]]) 16:36, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

When I read the comic, I applied it to this upcoming clock change which would turn the clocks back to "standard" time. Thus the ironic joke is that if you don't like daylight savings time then don't change your clocks, so you are then stuck in daylight savings time forever. [[User:Rtanenbaum|Rtanenbaum]] ([[User talk:Rtanenbaum|talk]]) 18:46, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
:This was also my initial (and continuing) impression... [[Special:Contributions/172.71.242.190|172.71.242.190]] 23:43, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
::Added a (larger than intended) paragraph to this end. On the presumption that, at each biannual clock-changing moment, the policy translates the current feelings of the person into whether they ''must'' add/remove an hour (even opposite to what they think they should do).
::If I had realised that it'd be so lengthy an 'explanation', before starting to edit, I'd have maybe added a Trivia-like section, or just inserted the ideas within it down here in Talk.
::I do believe that Black Hat's part in the announcement indicates an intentional multi-tiered chaos of this kind (rather than if a Cueball, where it might indeed be only "on/not-on DST" for the relevent half the year for single-order chaos). If anyone wishes to shift it out of the main Explain, or compress it, could they perhaps make sure that Black Hat's inherent disruptivity is still clearly mentioned there/here? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.42|172.70.86.42]] 11:20, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

== Average 39 minutes ==

While this figure makes sense (rather than 30 minutes) it was still slightly unexpected at first; as DST has a duration of 238 days, the average year-round time would be 238/365 hours ahead of Standard, or 39 minutes and 7.4 seconds. 
(Or, to factor in that a leap day occurs in 97 of every 400 years, 238/(365 ⁹⁷⁄₄₀₀) = 39 minutes and 5.8 seconds)

In fact, the original DST duration was set to actually be 6 months long (last Sunday of April to October), before being extended in 1987 and 2007 to reach its current 34 weeks.

[[User:SomeDee|SomeDee]] ([[User talk:SomeDee|talk]]) 15:23, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

I was wondering where that number came from... trust him to use the most absurd metric possible for averaging, instead of, for instance, the average deviation of sunrise, solar noon, or sunset... or even their earliest or latest times. - [[Special:Contributions/172.68.2.102|172.68.2.102]] 17:17, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

I haven't calculated for myself what US DST would actually average out at (presuming Randall is correct), but 'average year-round clock offset' for Europe (inc. UK, at least currently) would be different because it starts ''one week earlier'' (last Sunday in March, rather than first Sunday in April, if I remember the months right). One fifty-twoth of an hour (going straight to how the weightings change, rather than calculating the full averages in my head anew) is going to be slightly more than a minute of difference, so probably in the realms of UTC(+regional hourly shift)+40minutes. Maybe even +41 if it rounds off over into the ''next'' minute. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.242.175|172.71.242.175]] 22:15, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
It also ends two weeks earlier, (Middle of October instead of first week of November), so I'm really not sure on the actual difference. I just know that it's a headache for a couple weeks on either end for multinational meetings. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.100.194|172.70.100.194]] 16:26, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

== Major health ==

> "''has been found to cause major health problems''"

Citation needed.

One reported factoid:
''"..a group of U.S. researchers ...determined that heart attack risk jumped 24 percent the Monday after switching over to daylight saving time. .....dropped 21 percent on the Tuesday after the fall time change."''
https://www.heart.org/en/news/2018/10/26/can-daylight-saving-time-hurt-the-heart-prepare-now-for-spring
24% in fall, 21% in spring, suggests 3% net, which is more likely margin-of-error than major-problem.

"has been suggested" or "controversial" but not "has been found".

:So it basically evens out? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.23.90|172.69.23.90]] 18:26, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

:Your link doesn't work. Also, does it means the heart attack risk is worse whole half year? -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 21:18, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia's article cites [https://web.archive.org/web/20140313140334/http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/11/131101-when-does-daylight-savings-time-end-november-3-science/ this National Geographic article] [[User:SomeoneIGuess|someone, i guess]] ([[User talk:SomeoneIGuess|talk]]) 20:35, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

== Personal Inclination ==

I haven't changed clocks for DST in years. That system is garbage; it doesn't even fall on obvious days. When someone says a clock is off, shrug & say "That's debateable. This one's right year-round, how often do you have to set yours?"
[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 17:36, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
: Huh? So you're an hour late or early for half the year? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.215.9|172.70.215.9]] 21:29, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
: What would be "obvious days"? The equinoces, I suppose would be the astronomical absolutes, but they vary by several (calendar) days, and does this mean that clocks change at their hour, minute and second, regardless of whether in the middle of a week ''and workday''..? Also, the benefit (or otherwise) of any given date changes by latitude. And on what sleep cycles (early mornings or late evenings) any given person has. Equinox-nailed switchovers (or even tied to month-endings, say March 31st 24:00 to September 30th 24:00) just don't help much more (maybe less) than current versions. Heck, it's arbitrary, as might be many other choices, but it seems to keep disruption to the minimum (during changeover), and if the redistribution of hours isn't to your liking (a farmer may get up at/before dawn ''every day'', regardless of what pesky clocks say, 'cos animals and crops don't 'adjust' by our method) then that's up to you. But I bet some things will change around you and you at least need to mentally adjust to what time everyone around you decides it is. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.232|172.70.85.232]] 23:58, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
:Clock time is itself arbitrary. Why 12 hours twice instead of, say, 10 hours for one cycle per solar day? The answer boils down to "In ancient times, it was easy to divide 12 into fractions in your head. Also, counting hours at night was harder (no sundials) and less important (because pre-electricity, most people just slept)." [[User:Nitpicking|Nitpicking]] ([[User talk:Nitpicking|talk]]) 03:28, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
::Easy in modern times, too, since 12, 24, and 60 are {{w|highly composite number}}s and 10 can't even divide into thirds or quarters… [[User talk:AgentMuffin|~AgentMuffin]] 04:25, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

2698: Bad Date

2022-11-15T01:03:21Z

172.70.100.194: Fixed spelling error

{{comic
| number = 2698
| date = November 14, 2022
| title = Bad Date
| image = bad_date_2x.png
| imagesize = 666x261px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = "Even split between us, this will pay way better than the Jumanji sponsorship I came into the date with."
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a PERSON CAPITALIZING ON HIS SOCIAL LIFE - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
This comic is a spoof of Internet {{w|Influencer marketing|influencers}}. These are people with large social media followings who mention products in their videos in exchange for payment from the companies that produce these products, as a form of advertising.

In the comic, Megan and Cueball are not intentionally making a video, but someone around them posted a video of their date, because they were having an argument about the movie {{w|Jumanji}}. Megan realized that they can capitalize on this by getting a sponsor.

The argument then shifts to whether they're going to sleep together after the date. Cueball says he won't go home with Megan because she doesn't have the [[2096|mattress brand sold by their sponsor]]. She responds by pointing out a feature of that brand: their same-day delivery policy. This argument could easily be a TV commercial for the mattress, though Cueball's ultimate retort suggests (whether he wants it to or not) that that there still won't be a "happy ever after" conclusion to this play-acting, either fictionally or once real life resumes.

The title text hints, however, that Megan was already before the date going to promote the {{w|Jumanji (franchise)|Jumanji franchise}}, for her own gain. Megan's realization that she could not discuss this subject since Cueball had not seen it leads to her initial reaction starting their date to be shared, but not for the reason she had anticipated. But then when she sees they are still going viral, she is ready to use this new situation to bring in a lot of "mattress money". And as it turns out even when splitting with Cueball she will earn more. Since Cueball came into the date to have a date, he will probably get even less happy with Megan. But maybe the money could be a consolation? Or maybe his harsh remark at the end is what he really means about her ways.

==Transcript==
:[Cueball and Megan are sitting at a table in a restaurant with their meals still on their plate and filled wine glasses. Megan hands her cellphone over the table to Cueball.]
:Megan: ''Psst -- this date is going so badly that the people around us are posting it live. ''
:Megan: ''Look.''

:[Zoom in just on Cueball in his chair. He is holding the cellphone while he sees a video. What the video shows is shown above him in a frame. The "video" window shows a scene from earlier in their date. And below the picture there is a title and below that an eye with the number of followers shown. In the scene they are sitting as in the first panel, but both has their arms raised. Cueball's arms towards Megan and she has her arms above her head. Small lines from above her head from where her speech line comes out indicates that she is agitated and speaks loudly.]
:Megan in video: Unbelievable - Have you even ''seen'' Jumanji?
:Video caption: Date disaster 252k following
:Cueball: ''Oh no.''

:[Zoom in on Megan in her chair.]
:Megan: ''But it's okay: I got us a sponsorship.''
:Megan: ''You just need to play along...''

:[Scene expands to include the two nearest people at the two nearby tables. Both are typing frantically at their phones, (indicated with vibration lines on either side of their phones), using both hands, to document the date disaster live. Ponytail is to the left of them with food on her plate and a glass of water on her table and Hairy is to the right with a wine glass on his table. Cueball has raised one hand with a finger pointing up. Megan points a finger towards Cueball but is looking down at her phone held up in the other hand, to check their following.]
:Cueball: I could '''''never''''' go home with someone with such bad taste in mattresses. I need the soft support of the ProFirm 3000.®
:Megan: Wait, I can order one! With same-day delivery, it can-
:Cueball: '''You had your chance.'''

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Hairy]]
[[Category:Romance]]
[[Category:Internet]]
[[Category:Social networking]]