explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

2728: Lane Change Highway

2023-01-24T21:20:08Z

172.70.210.145: /* Explanation */ redundant explanation

{{comic
| number = 2728
| date = January 23, 2023
| title = Lane Change Highway
| image = lane_change_highway_2x.png
| imagesize = 374x530px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = I just think lane markers should follow the local magnetic declination.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a CANDY CANE ROAD - Please continue to expand the description, add the title text. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
{{w|Highway}}s are large roads designated for high-speed traffic. Like in [[253: Highway Engineer Pranks]], [[Randall]] proposes an ineffective highway design, which reportedly got him fired.

Highways normally have several, but not a fixed number of lanes; more lanes may be included on parts of the highway with higher traffic flow, and the design decision can interact with entrances and exits to the highway. One common structure is to merge a lane from the right to the left after an entrance, to remove the extra lane created by the merge of the entry ramp. Drivers are expected to merge into one of the lanes further left before the lane on the right ends.

Here, Randall has designed a highway where the lanes are not aligned to the road, thus constantly expanding to the left and requiring merges from the right. This is highly impractical, as each individual lane merge is a difficult maneuver compared to normal driving; being forced to perform these near-constantly is a large hindrance at the least and a large danger at the most.

==Transcript==
:[In a white panel a black road starts at the bottom left and curves gently towards the right until the middle of the panel, where it begins curving slightly to the left ending in the top right corner. The road has space for four lanes divided by lane markers, but the markers does not follow the direction of the road but goes more from left to right than the road, even though they do follow the general curve of the road, but never the actual direction of the road. This results in all these lanes to end near the right edge of the road. Every time the lane gets too near the edge the lane lines stop and on the end of the lane there is a curving arrow pointing left. Below the arrows the word "Merge" is written. This happens seven times on this small patch of Highway. At the bottom and top there are the lane marker lines entering and exiting, so always there are four lanes. After the three starting at the bottom, seven new ones begin, the last just below the top, where the final merge arrow also is, stopping the last of the right lines from exiting at the top.]
:Merge
:Merge
:Merge
:Merge
:Merge
:Merge
:Merge

:[Caption below the panel:]
:I got fired from my traffic engineering job for building a highway where you could only travel by lane changes.

==Trivia==
* A faint grey outline is visible under the caption, as if text was rewritten over a semitransparent layer, which was never deleted.

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Engineering]]

2727: Runtime

2023-01-21T08:22:12Z

172.70.210.145: /* Explanation */ actual citation needed

{{comic
| number = 2727
| date = January 20, 2023
| title = Runtime
| image = runtime_2x.png
| imagesize = 399x389px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = At least there's a general understanding all around that Doctor Who is its own thing.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by EIGHT BAD MOVIES - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

The comic presents two separate conversations, which boil down to the same premise and yet differing conclusions. In one, a particular TV show is being watched, in the other a film franchise.

While it is finding its feet, a new season of a television show (perhaps commissioned, on the back of some perceived interest in the story it will tell, for a dozen or so episodes of around 50 minutes - i.e. about ten hours at a minimum) is not necessarily going to get everything right in the writing style, the slant it puts on the subject matter, the cast of characters or other production values. Or at least not for mass appeal to the everyman, for whom [[Cueball]] is the archetypal representative. Nevertheless, the series ''did'' get further seasons, and [[White Hat]] (the optimist, and clearly won over by the production) is on the way to successfully convincing Cueball to view the series, or perhaps to continue to watch it after becoming jaded by its early failure to live up to its promise. It sounds reasonable to Cueball, just from his friend's recommendation, to get over the hump and appreciate it "when it gets good".

A series of films, however, are seemingly a different matter. By substituting 10+ hours of filmed-for-television with something more cinematic, the prospect of getting over the exact same scale of 'hump' in a long-running set of sequels (eight films at a not unreasonable average length of 85 minutes each would ''also'' require ten hours of commitment), is not at all enticing.

The title text talks of the long-running British TV series that is Doctor Who. The original Doctor Who, running from 1963-1989 was extremely low budget, and is generally considered to be not as good as the revived series (2005-present), which has a much higher production budget and is typically much more popular with modern viewers (who mainly ignore the older episodes).{{acn}} The joke here appears to be that someone watching Doctor Who sequentially from the first season until the latest would have to watch 26 seasons (hundreds of episodes) before the series "gets good" (assuming the "good" point is the 2005 series revival. Thus Doctor Who is considered to be its own thing, and unlike other shows where the fans recommend you suffer through a poor first season to enjoy improvement in subsequent seasons, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whovians Whovians] typically recommend new fans to begin with the 2005 reboot (technically the 27th season).

There is also the wrinkle that anyone wishing to start with the original run would be out of luck, seeing as many early episodes - before the late-70s - were [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Who_missing_episodes lost forever]. The BBC didn't see any value in keeping them as they couldn't rerun them, so random episodes would be disposed of or recycled for various reasons, and those episodes are gone, making many stories incomplete. Some have been recovered through discovering some fan having recorded them, but most lost episodes remain lost.

It is vague about Randall's precise opinion, but even the most dedicated fan would acknowledge that it has had a varying quality/charm/consistency/etc, according to one's personal tastes for such things. Comparing the original run (pre-Millenium, featuring seven key actors sequentially taking on the title role, and another for a standalone TV-movie) with the revived series (continuing the pattern with a further seven title-actors, and the eighth already announced), and any number of 'show-runners' (producers, main writers, etc) is one possible point of contention, probably more suited to British viewers. Possibly, in Randall's case, it is just the (perceived) ups and downs in the more recent era, which has been more consistently screened in the US.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
:[Two situations are depicted between White Hat and Cueball.]
:[Situation 1:]
:White Hat: You should keep watching! After the first season it gets really good.
:Cueball: Oh yeah, I've heard that!
:[Situation 2:]
:White Hat: You should keep watching! After the first 8 movies, they get really good.
:Cueball: Haha, what? I'm not going to sit through '''''eight''''' bad movies!
:[Caption below the panel:]
:It's weird how it's way more normal and socially acceptable to suggest someone spend 10-15 hours watching something when it's TV rather than movies.

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring White Hat]]
[[Category:Fiction]]
[[Category:Doctor Who]]

Talk:2727: Runtime

2023-01-21T08:21:17Z

172.70.210.145: Respond

It has to be said that a first season of a series generally will be written ''as'' a whole season (give or take any pilot/feature-length-special that may be the heralding first episode). Whereas film sequences don't tend to be purposefully made/anticipated together (notable exceptions: Back To The Futures 2 & 3, the LOTR and (later) Hobbit trilogies, various sub-sets of Star Wars (the prequel and sequel trilogies, certainly, the OT's second and third conclusions to the story started with Ep4)). Sometimes it runs well enough to get up into high numbers of at least sufficiently similar-yet-innovating releases that satisfy the theme (the Fast And Furiouses... the whole Bond œuvre..?), though sometimes it might stutter (Highlander 2!) and may or may not actually recover. Either way, it risks becoming a made-for-TV-movie sinkhole (as Disney knows well enough), unless it was always intended to reproduce some previously successful serialisation (Tolkein's stuff, as already alluded to; J.K. Rowling's surprisingly popular product). I think, therefore that Cueball is right to more dread the effort of dealing with some multi-sequel monstrocity of a film-canon, compared to whatever degree of {{tvtropes|EarlyInstallmentWeirdness|First Season Disservice}} he has suffered or heard that he must suffer before the kinks are properly ironed out in seasons 2-6. (Then it goes funny for 7, 8 and most of 9, until the story arc evolves into something that gets it to series 20 before a bit of cancel/uncancel shenanigans plague the production, spin-offs (including a prequel series and/or an animated version) take over the franchise and relegate the old stars to cameo-actors, the franchise then gets a Series: The Movie! which either does surprisingly well or surprisingly manages to upset the whole diverse fanbase in loads of differing ways... or some variation on all that.)
 ...but, anyway, it's not surprising. Yet it ''does'' probably qualify as an interesting point that fully deserves to be highlit or else we might never have thought of it for ousrselves, in as many words. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.64|172.71.178.64]] 03:55, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

I don't think 8 moves are of about equal length to 1 season. I picked 8 random movies from the list of movies I'm planning to watch and it totaled 18¼ hours. Then looked at some series first seasons. The Mandalorian is 5½ hours, Wednesday is 6 hours, Friends is 6¼ hours, even an outlier like Dragon Ball Z is only 10½ hours. The premise of the comic probably still stands though, but can be explained by the fact that with a series it also gives the promise of more hours of good material. With movies if the first 8 are bad there might not be many good ones after that. [[User:Tharkon|Tharkon]] ([[User talk:Tharkon|talk]]) 04:13, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
:You picked some BAD examples, though... AFAIK, Mandalorian and Wednesday are straight-to-streaming shows. STS, specialty channel, and non-North American shows (British, Australian) have particularly short seasons of 6, 8, or 10 episodes. A standard season is between 22 and 26 episodes at the very outside, usually around 24. Also, such discussions don't generally happen about half hour sitcoms & cartoons like Friends or Dragon Ball Z, most shows are hour shows (44 minutes without ads instead of 22). Quick and dirty math - rounding to 20 and 40 minute episodes, or 3 per hour and 3 per 2 hours - means you picked a weirdly short season of Friends of 18.75 episodes, their 26 episode seasons (as I recall they tended to hit 26) would be nearly 9 hours usually. Hour-long shows, using the average 24 episodes, is 16 hours. A usual average movie length these days is 2h per (used to be 1.5 until I'd say the late 90s, movies could be as short as 1:15 and rarely hit 2, but SO MANY long movies in recent decades) means 8 movies ALSO averages about 16. The math works out if you use standard, middle of the road examples - no long movies like Titanic or short seasons like streaming shows. [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 07:26, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

The runtime of most movies is O(n), but the runtime of some TV shows is O(n log n) because you have to go back for context. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.2.114|162.158.2.114]] 04:24, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

I was surprised nobody noticed or made mention that with Doctor Who you CAN'T watch from the true beginning (not really) because of all the lost episodes from the 60s and 70s! So I added that to the explanation. I've collected every episode, but for those lost ones all I have is that they have the audio and some pictures so someone made a slideshow as a replacement, or they have the audio and someone animated a replacement (many of these replacements are shorter than an episode, though). And sometimes it isn't even full stories missing - as nearly every story spanned multiple episodes - so LOTS of stories aren't complete. So nobody can TRULY watch every episode from the beginning any more (I've done my best and got to season 3 before I couldn't find time any more). [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 08:07, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

Is "The original Doctor Who, running from 1963-1989 was extremely low budget, and is generally considered to be not as good as the revived series (2005-present), which has a much higher production budget and is typically much more popular with modern viewers (who mainly ignore the older episodes)" actually true? Most of the discussion I've seen is not particularly kind to the revival relative to they heyday of the third through seventh doctors. It seems like someone just made this up to fit the comic's underlying narrative. An actual citation is actually needed. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.145|172.70.210.145]] 08:21, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

1263: Reassuring

2023-01-02T00:06:40Z

172.70.210.145: /* Transcript */ ce

{{comic
| number = 1263
| date = September 11, 2013
| title = Reassuring
| image = reassuring.png
| titletext = 'At least humans are better at quietly amusing ourselves, oblivious to our pending obsolescence' thought the human, as a nearby Dell Inspiron contentedly displayed the same bouncing geometric shape screensaver it had been running for years.
}}

==Explanation==
''{{w|Go (game)|Go}}'' is an abstract strategy board game considered computationally difficult, compared to chess. Because of the size and number of possible combinations, computers don't have an easy way to exhaustively search for the best move. Still, {{w|Computer Go|they are getting better and better playing it}}. [[Megan]] suggests that computers may soon reach the level of being able to beat the best human players, an {{W|artificial intelligence}} milestone that has already been accomplished with other games. At the time of this comic, Go was one of the last games where a computer can still be beaten by top humans (see [[1002: Game AIs]]). However, in May 2017, Google's AI AlphaGo [http://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/google-ai-becomes-world-s-top-ranking-go-player-1.3097756 defeated the world's top human Go player]. This was referenced three months later in [[1875: Computers vs Humans]].

As a common human response, [[Cueball]] attempts to offer the consolation or defensive statement that humans remain better than computers at something else (see also [[894: Progeny]]). In this case, the first thing he thinks of is that humans are better at making such consoling statements. However, Megan disproves Cueball's statement by creating a script in the {{w| Python (programming language)|Python programming language}} to create an abundant supply of such statements. An irony here is that each of the statements the computer generates defends humans, not computers.

Another such statement is made in the title text, that humans are better at quietly amusing themselves, oblivious to our "pending obsolescence" - which may refer alternatively to our inevitable deaths, or to the comic's own topic of our being replaced and surpassed by computers. The title text then again suggests, however, that the human statement is not true, referring to an Inspiron model of {{w|Dell}} computer which "quietly amuses itself" by showing a geometric {{w|screensaver}} as it presumably one day will be obsolete and replaced by a newer computer.

The original purpose of screensaver programs was to prevent images or characters from being burned into the phosphor layer of the older CRT displays. In more modern displays, including newer CRTs (cca mid-90s or newer), this could be achieved by simply turning it off after some period of time but originally there was no way to turn the display off programmatically. Thus the screensaver itself is already obsolete.

Gwern Branwen has [https://www.gwern.net/GPT-3#why-deep-learning-will-never-truly-x used GPT-3 to generate reassuring parables].

==Transcript==
:[Megan is sitting at a computer, and Cueball is standing behind her.]
:Megan: Looks like computers will beat humans at '''Go''' pretty soon.
:Cueball: Wow.
:Cueball: That's the last of the big ones.
:Megan: Yeah.
:[Megan looks back over her shoulder at him.]
:Cueball: Well, at least humans are still better at, uh,
:Cueball: coming up with reassuring parables about things humans are better at?
:Megan: Hmm.
:[Megan types on her computer.]
:''type type''
:[She leans back over her chair again and addresses Cueball.]
:Megan: I made a Python script that generates thousands of reassuring parables per second.
:Cueball: ''Dammit.''
:Computer: Computers will never understand a sonnet computers will never enjoy a salad comp—

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Artificial Intelligence]]
[[Category:Board games]]

1263: Reassuring

2023-01-02T00:06:12Z

172.70.210.145: /* Transcript */ AI

2716: Game Night Ordering

2022-12-27T00:29:35Z

172.70.210.145: /* Explanation */ clearer possibly

{{comic
| number = 2716
| date = December 26, 2022
| title = Game Night Ordering
| image = game_night_ordering_2x.png
| imagesize = 293x471px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = One good trick, if you get called on a fake service, is to build a working version of it and mention it again the next week.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a BORED FOOD.NET DRIVER BETWEEN DELIVERIES. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

This comic is poking fun at the proliferation of apps and internet services such as for [https://builtin.com/consumer-tech/food-delivery-companies food delivery] and [https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/banking/best-ways-to-send-money money transfer]. The characters are discussing which to use during an evening of tabletop gaming. The group has a running competition to see who can mention fake apps or services without being called out.

[[Cueball]] mentions three food delivery services, {{w|Grubhub}}, {{w|DoorDash}}, and Food.net, and [[Ponytail]] asks him to reimburse her using {{w|Venmo}}, {{w|PayPal}}, or Yahoo Cash. Cueball expresses skepticism about Yahoo Cash, after which Ponytail admits it's a fake service and is thus obligated to pay for Cueball's meal. (Incidentally, Yahoo does provide a money transfer service to facilitate private party gambling on {{w|fantasy sports}}, called [https://sports.yahoo.com/wallet/dailyfantasy/referafriend/ Yahoo Fantasy Wallet], but it uses {{w|PayPal}}.) Food.net, which Cueball mentioned without being called out, is not a real service; https://food.net exists but is "not available for use," and is not related to food.

Based on Ponytail's offer, if someone is correctly called out then they apparently must pay for the player who caught them, but what happens when a player isn't caught (e.g. when Cueball mentioned Food.net) isn't clear. The rules might be similar to variants of the card game sometimes known as "{{w|Cheat (game)|Cheat}}," in which a successful bluff merely allows play to continue on until someone is caught bluffing or incorrectly accuses another player.

The title text offers a tip for winning the competition after being called out for mentioning a fake service: building a working version of it and then mentioning it again the next week.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[Cueball, Megan, and Ponytail are sitting at a table to order food. Cueball is on his phone, and Ponytail, sitting opposite, on her laptop.]
:Cueball: What should we use to order? Grubhub? DoorDash? Food.net?
:Ponytail: I'll do Grubhub; you can send me money. Do you do Venmo? Paypal? Yahoo Cash?
:Cueball: Yahoo Cash HAS to be fake.
:Ponytail: Yes. Dang. I'll get your share.
:[Caption below the panel:]
:Our game night has an ongoing competition to see who can mention the most fake apps and services without getting called on it.

{{comic discussion}}

2716: Game Night Ordering

2022-12-26T23:09:44Z

172.70.210.145: /* Explanation */ l.c.

{{comic
| number = 2716
| date = December 26, 2022
| title = Game Night Ordering
| image = game_night_ordering_2x.png
| imagesize = 293x471px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = One good trick, if you get called on a fake service, is to build a working version of it and mention it again the next week.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a BORED FOOD.NET DRIVER BETWEEN DELIVERIES. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

This comic is poking fun at the proliferation of apps and internet services such as for [https://builtin.com/consumer-tech/food-delivery-companies food delivery] and [https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/banking/best-ways-to-send-money money transfer]. The characters are discussing which to use after an evening of tabletop gaming. The group has a running competition to see who can mention the most fake apps and services without being called out.

[[Cueball]] mentions three food delivery services, {{w|Grubhub}}, {{w|DoorDash}}, and Food.net, and [[Ponytail]] asks him to reimburse her using {{w|Venmo}}, {{w|PayPal}}, or Yahoo Cash. Cueball expresses skepticism about Yahoo Cash, after which Ponytail admits it's a fake service and is thus obligated to pay for Cueball's meal. Food.net, which Cueball mentioned, is not a real service; https://food.net exists but is "not available for use," and is not related to food. Thus he was able to get a fake service past the other players. Based on Ponytail's offer, if someone is correctly called out then they apparently must pay for the player who caught them, but what happens when a player isn't caught (e.g. when Cueball mentioned Food.net) remains unknown.

The title text offers a tip for winning the competition after being called out for mentioning a fake service: building a working version of it and then mentioning it again the next week.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[Cueball, Megan, and Ponytail are sitting at a table to order food. Cueball is on his phone, and Ponytail, sitting opposite, on her laptop.]
:Cueball: What should we use to order? Grubhub? DoorDash? Food.net?
:Ponytail: I'll do Grubhub; you can send me money. Do you do Venmo? Paypal? Yahoo Cash?
:Cueball: Yahoo Cash HAS to be fake.
:Ponytail: Yes. Dang. I'll get your share.
:[Caption below the panel:]
:Our game night has an ongoing competition to see who can mention the most fake apps and services without getting called on it.

{{comic discussion}}

Talk:2712: Gravity

2022-12-20T10:12:17Z

172.70.210.145: /* no new page for 2713?? */ fixed now

this game is really hard...i got stuck on the sun, then tried again and got sucked into a black hole.[[User:(insert name here)|(insert name here)]] ([[User talk:(insert name here)|talk]]) 06:34, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Whatever image is supposed to be in the center isn't showing up for me! D: Tried on both Safari and Chrome but it gives me the little broken picture icon. Hopefully it's fixed soon! (The comic's been up for about 10 minutes going by when the bot updated this page.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.126.117|172.70.126.117]] 22:28, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

Is it me or are the planets way too close together, and if the gravity were real, they'd all smush together?

: The center image is trying to load this link, but there's nothing there: https://xkcd.com/tile/ship1/ship_gliding_2x.png. I hope that gets fixed soon. The "ship" seems to rotate a bit unpredictably over time. At first I thought it was responding to my mouse movements, but I don't think so anymore. [[User:Orion205|Orion205]] ([[User talk:Orion205|talk]]) 22:34, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
:: Still broken on the mobile site (Chrome, Android). I just see a rotating missing image box. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.134.133|172.71.134.133]] 11:39, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

: Ah, the center image is controlled by the javascript, of course: https://xkcd.com/2712/comic.js. So this is some sort of interactive comic? [[User:Orion205|Orion205]] ([[User talk:Orion205|talk]]) 22:36, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

: Okay, left/right arrow keys seem to control the rotation. I'll check back in later in hopes of seeing the ship so I have some idea what the point of it all is. [[User:Orion205|Orion205]] ([[User talk:Orion205|talk]]) 22:39, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

: And now it's working. You fly a little spaceship around the little planet. Luckily you have shields if you slam into the ground too hard. [[User:Orion205|Orion205]] ([[User talk:Orion205|talk]]) 22:43, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

: Catch the cannonball for a spaceship upgrade. Also, not so easy to find a stable orbit around this little planet. [[User:Orion205|Orion205]] ([[User talk:Orion205|talk]]) 22:49, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

Found another planet (has a reference to the "Tires" chapter in How To) with a cannonball, which turned me into an astronaut.

You can transform the ship into a different (seems faster to me) one by running into the last cannon ball.
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.241.249|108.162.241.249]]

Rough summary: The comic is an interactive space flight game, starting landed on an origin planet. The planet is static, and the player starts in a ship controlled by WASD or Directional keys. The ship can go up and down, and rotate left and right. Game simulates orbits and gravity, making navigation tricky. Around the player ship there are dots which indicate nearby planets - there are numurous planets, each with what seem to be drawings related to the What If book. Within the browser, planets are loaded in PNG format by chunk, names formatted as "planet_0_0" with numbers incrementing as grid co-ordinates. Planets and objects found: "origin" "europa", "road", "b612". NOTE: Several hazards exist, such as a field of black holes - if flown into, the ship can become stuck if let to be pulled close to the surface, locking in place. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.110.230|172.70.110.230]] 23:13, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

: Within browser dev console exists the objects "Ship" and "Comic", the latter containing a list of all objects and coordinates, as well as various setting for the game physics and settings. Comic contains the sub-object "Voyager", which contains the details and settings for the player ship, including location, speed, etc. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.110.230|172.70.110.230]] 23:13, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

:: There are 5 ship types in the game code, each with their own consumable transformative found in the world. The ship alternatives are (ship1, ship2, ship-tintin, ship-figure, ship-soccerball). These can be changed with console command [Comic.ship = "ship1"]. Note: At current, "ship-soccerball" returns an error and does not load correctly. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.110.230|172.70.110.230]] 23:13, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

:: The "ship.shields" is a boolean value that defaults to true, and when set to false, makes the game behave in a lunar lander mode (bad landing black screens the whole page). The "ship.engine" types I see in the code are "warp" (very fast speeds) and "infinite improbability drive" (teleports to 'improbable' places). Default engine is "standard", but it seems any value that is not the former two has the same effect. --[[Special:Contributions/172.70.254.165|172.70.254.165]] 23:32, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

: In addition to Europa, the space road, and B-612, there is the "Edge of the Universe" (complete with Milliways restaurant nearby), a... tree (which is extremely hard to land on), a planet populated by the characters from Dinosaur Comics (and the main cast of Jurassic Park), the USS Enterprice (NCC 1701-C), and likely quite a bit more. Orbital mechanics make it tough to land on the smaller targets. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.254.46|172.71.254.46]] 23:07, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

:: Plus what appears to be Earth, complete with the LHC. There's a 2nd "cannonball" there for an additional ship upgrade, but at the time I found it, that graphic was unavailable. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.126.232|172.70.126.232]] 23:15, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
:: "Edge of the Universe" is part of "Outside". There is a hidden tunnel from the main universe to the bubble universe at coordinates (7597,24327) point nose of ship at words "EDGE OF THE" and fire thrusters. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.79.160|162.158.79.160]] 03:59, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

: I went out a long ways away, and eventually found The Great Attractor. It attracts really hard. I couldn't leave the surface. (I wasn't able to leave the center of Europa either, though, so, not saying much.) There are also some terrifying black holes (a binary system?), though something's weird about their gravity; you kinda bounce off of them a quarter screen away or so? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.77|108.162.216.77]] 23:10, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
:: I *think* thats a wormhole, you go in one and then out the other. I got stuck right between them. Speaking of getting stuck, there is a bug where if you hit a planet with enough gravity fast enough, the ship is inside the planet. Holding W makes you go backwards (or at least towards the center maybe?) and you can get all the way to the other end of the planet where you slow down a lot, but can eventually leave. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.82.166|172.70.82.166]] 23:19, 16 December 2022 (UTC)Bumpf

::There's one planet that's supposed to be the "remnant of the sun", is that what you mean with The Great Attractor? (It has a bridge on it with a coin(?) blocking part of the way, and a space ship actively crashing into its surface, drawn as several frames.) You can leave that by skidding over the surface like a skipping stone to gather momentum - it's tricky, due to various obstacles, but possible! (It's possible you need two ship power-ups?! If they're indeed power-ups and not just aesthetic changes, I didn't pay attention.)

:::No, it's labeled "The Great Attractor". It's big and white and has strong gravity. Lemme see if I have a screenshot. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.25|108.162.216.25]] 00:20, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
:::Here: https://github.com/Erhannis/random_garbage/blob/main/Screenshot%20from%202022-12-16%2017-47-48.png [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.25|108.162.216.25]] 00:24, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

::Screenshot of [https://imgur.com/a/NZulBlb the Enterprise] and [https://imgur.com/2VSZYp7 Dinosaur Comics planet]. Sorry for the broken image in the middle, I picked up two powerups and [https://xkcd.com/2712/tile/ship-soccerball/ship_landing_down_2x.png my current ship image is broken]. -(pinkgothic) [[Special:Contributions/172.68.110.143|172.68.110.143]] 23:22, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
:::[https://i.imgur.com/fLU1cWy.png Dog Park planet] [[Special:Contributions/172.71.254.114|172.71.254.114]] 23:28, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

Using a tablet (no keyboard, but seems to respond to touch), controls are confusing. Presuming that touching bottom left activates left-rotate and touching bottom right does right-rotate (can't see the presumably white-lije controls over the white planet) but I can't get ''thrust'' anything but 'reverse' into the planet centre. No obvious top-edge hotspots, either. Maybe I need to do a "You will not go to space today" and then reverse ''upward''... BRB, after a bit more testing, though... [[Special:Contributions/172.69.79.185|172.69.79.185]] 23:39, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
:Ok, the next go went 'better'. The browser keeps wanting to load "simplified content", but if I ignore that I can get full-screen, at one point I changed rocket-type (no idea how, can't do it again) and I ''easily'' get off the planet (hard to thrust just enough to get to the Hooke comment/cannon), with plenty of targets coming in range (but cannot slow down enough to not have it glitch and rebuild a totally new set of targets that I never can reach). Will try desktop version when I'm next on a suitable one... Looks to be a lot of interesting content. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.30|162.158.74.30]] 23:53, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

Using the developer console, the ship can be teleported to different coordinates via console command [Comic.voyager.pos.x = 0, Comic.voyager.pos.y = -1461], provided here with start location coordinates. This can be used for manual navigation to known coordinates. List of locations per game code added below, append landing X,Y to each as determined. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.110.230|172.70.110.230]] 23:42, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

b612: [5280,-7601] dogplanet: [2598,-23168] earth: [33803,-32974] enterprise: [1898,-61215] europa: [24930,8022] goodhart: [-23372,5928] greatattractor: [-594782,248510] japanmoon: [x,y] maw1: [x,y] maw2: [x,y] maw3: [x,y] maw4: [x,y] maw5: [x,y] maw6: [x,y] maw7: [x,y] maw8: [x,y] maw9: [x,y] maw10: [x,y] maw11: [x,y] maw13: [x,y] maw14: [x,y] nojapan: [x,y] origin: [0, -1461] peeler: [x,y] pigeons: [x,y] present: [x,y] remnant: [x,y] roads: [x,y] soupiter: [x,y] steerswoman: [x,y] sun: [x,y]

Note: For ease of teleportation, reference the ''Comic.planetRects'' array and use the first two numbers as X,Y. This will get the ship close enough to the object to then land and determine a landed location, via ''Comic.voyager.pos''

In your developer console, enter <code>window.ship.engines = 'infinite improbability drive'</code> and pressing up will randomly teleport you to interesting places.
<code>window.ship.engines = 'warp'</code> will let you escape normally inescapable objects.

Unfortunately, the infinite improbability drive will sometimes result in an object's image and geometry failing to load. The same bug can occur with a manual teleportation too close to an object. For convenience, here are a list of coordinates which put you relatively close to various locations, but far enough away to trigger the object's loading:
'''Major Locations:''' origin: (0, -1500); dogplanet: (2480, -23484); earth: (28720, -36912); europa: (26360, 984); goodhart: (-26600, 2424); greatattractor: (-594000, 247952); qwantz: (22120, -51788); remnant: (39240, -9648); soupiter: (-16000, 16032); steerswoman: (-70140, 2952); sun: (-29900, -32352); Bubble Universe: (5000,21000);
'''Smaller Locations:''' b612: (5220, -8424); japanmoon: (-11860, 10576); nojapan: (-15360, 10676); enterprise: (2020, -61904); outside: (250,28500); peeler: (-18540, -2264); pigeons: (-18040, 3956); present: (45640, 36816); roads: (26480, 23500); light mode toggle: (1500,-200000)
'''Black Holes:''' maw1: (-63152, 17130); maw2: (-60422, 16638); maw3: (-55950, 15508); maw4: (-59092, 14918); maw5: (-59582, 14238); maw6: (-58656, 14126); maw7: (-59400, 13828); maw8: (-58330, 13296); maw9: (-61544, 12796); maw10: (-59032, 11618); maw11: (-58762, 11472); maw12: (-53664, 10832); maw13: (-63486, 8424); maw14: (-52142, 20624);

Also, I found the following javascript function helpful for teleporting around. <code>function tp(x,y){ Comic.voyager.pos.x = x; Comic.voyager.pos.y = y; Comic.voyager.pos.vx = 0; Comic.voyager.pos.vy = 0;}</code> --[[Special:Contributions/172.70.126.233|172.70.126.233]] 03:06, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

If anyone wants to download the planet images, they're at https://xkcd.com/2712/tile/<name>_i_j.png, for i,j = 0, 1, ..., going as high as needed for the planet size. For example, https://xkcd.com/2712/tile/origin_3_3.png gives the bottom-right part of the start planet.

; Proposal
It seems the most explanatory thing we can do is replace the blank starfield with the starting image screenshot, and label its four corners with their x and y coordiates, and then make a table of all the objects with their coordinates, a screenshot, and a description of their behaviors. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.204|172.70.206.204]] 23:55, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
: A map with insets would be better than coordinates since the frame rotates. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.158.231|172.71.158.231]] 00:17, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
:: Here are some overview images: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1UPJ1_4xNQbsHVP5FplrTaVJa3e6WddjG The Great Attractor is much farther out than most of the planets. So I've also included a more zoomed-in image that doesn't include it. --[[Special:Contributions/172.70.127.38|172.70.127.38]] 07:35, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Got images for all the locations: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1CVADHsRgBtDPYca-gdfVwNW_nEsrJ-zj?usp=share_link [[User:Clam|Clam]] ([[User talk:Clam|talk]]) 00:03, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Looks like I was beat to the punch, but here's another way to access the raw images (on a dark background): https://aeromancer.dev/xkcd_2712/ [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 01:15, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

I’ve been able to glitch into the center of planets, but the ones with lower gravity I can get out of. I did this unintentionally by going headfirst into one really fast.

[https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/11pP8VbYkJDDWUOIFhUHO_DZmEbd9_E56 Here's] a version of the images on the starfields! Figured it would be the closest thing. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.111.29|172.70.111.29]] 02:23, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

; Table system
I've added the graph from good'ol hoverboard. Here's the format to add stuff.
|-

|Title, perhaps in triple apostrophes if they're a major feature, not on top of another planet.

|Transcription for people talking in that area. Don't do this for planets.

|Coordinates. 172.70.126.233 has a comment on a ton of coordinates and locations which need to be added. I don't know how he does that science stuff, but use it!

|Is it a reference to What If 2? Put a Y here if so.

|Is it a reference to XKCD? Put a Y here if so.

|Is it a reference to a movie? Put a Y here if so.

|Is it a reference to something else? Put a Y here is so. Leave these empty if not.

|Put the explanation here.

Please help out on adding stuff! There's a lot! Remove the newlines from in between the lines. I had to add those for them to format right.
[[User:Eelitee|Eelitee]] ([[User talk:Eelitee|talk]]) 04:33, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

OHNO
172.70.126.233 coordinates for teleportation specifically. I didn't read it right and put them in... I'm going through the data dump to try and extract them. Sorry!!
[[User:Eelitee|Eelitee]] ([[User talk:Eelitee|talk]]) 04:37, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Alright, fixed. A few things I'm thinking about to do next, but I don't have time for:
1. Add gravitation attractions in a new column. They're all in the json dump, I suggest using a json viewer for more convenience. Or doing some coding?
2. Add item locations. This one is important, as items are a major feature.
3. Organize the items, either by alphabetical, or by distance from Earth. This might be hard...
4. Get details in! We need more information. This is the most important by far, get to work! haha.

GL, HF!

[[User:Eelitee|Eelitee]] ([[User talk:Eelitee|talk]]) 04:48, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

I'm was adding the "Y" tags for the different bodies, do we want to add a "Y" if there is any of that reference on the planet (for the planet row in the chart) or only add the Y on the specific comic fragments or POIs on the planet? On the one hand it seems like it would be helpful to see what kind of references are on a planet overall, but I also feel that it could quickly turn into every planet having every single box checked. Also, I feel we need a 2nd box for what if 1 vs what if 2, as well as TE and HT. I haven't explored the map very much yet, but if there are a lot of ST/SW/LR references they may need to be separated from movies, similar to the abbreviation system on hoverboard. I don't edit a lot and I have only edited "new" pages once or twice so if anyone has any advice or issues with what I have added feel free to add your opinions here. Thanks!

;Unlisted Planet
Hi all, first time poster so sorry if I'm formatting this wrong. I found a planet at (46070, 37936) which doesn't seem to be listed yet, and I didn't see it in the comics.js output or the google drive link from [[User:Clam|Clam]]. It's very small and has characters talking about the new book https://drive.google.com/file/d/19lfN8N06s18mKUhFkPcFddKYEXApAED4/view?usp=share_link Have we already accounted for this, and if not does anyone know where we might find a listing including this planet and possibly others like it? [[User:Jgendelgreen|Jgendelgreen]] ([[User talk:Jgendelgreen|talk]]) 06:07, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

No, you're doing alright. If you find something new, just add it to the list. Other people will correct it if it's wrong!
You can find a listing using the json dump that was posted underneath the list. I may have deleted the listing for that one accidentally... oops...
[[User:Eelitee|Eelitee]] ([[User talk:Eelitee|talk]]) 06:17, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Oh cool thanks! I think the one I found is "present"[[User:Jgendelgreen|Jgendelgreen]] ([[User talk:Jgendelgreen|talk]]) 06:23, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

I wish to note that I'm using Safari on an iPad, which usually can't touch the interactive comics (I know hoverboard was a whole lot of nothing), for this one I can turn the rockets on and off, that's it. Seems like my path is predetermined, on autopilot (turns here then there, first time in an S, with nothing in sight to be modifying my flight). The first time I was going pretty fast, rockets off, then I turned them back on right before I blasted past SOME planet, flitted by in a blink, so I'm hoping to find it again, but I have no control except Thrust or No Thrust. [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 07:12, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
:Check that, NOW if I tap the left side I get the right thruster and vice versa! Hey, I have control! [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 07:24, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
::Found Jurassic Park planet and Dog Park planet, then found the sun, saw SOMEBODY saying something but I skidded to a stop too far away, and no, escape is NOT possible. I'm in the default rocket and turning on the thrusters just gives a little hop, not enough to then tun on ONE thruster to actually change position. I am unquestionably STUCK, LOL! [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 07:42, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
:Does anyone know what [https://imgur.com/a/j7BAMrF this little island] is called? It's near the roads. It's been described as ''"A tree larger than the planet it's growing on"'' on the main page's table. -(pinkgothic) [[Special:Contributions/198.41.242.241|198.41.242.241]] 00:59, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
:: It's the "roads" tree planet, because the roads through portals need a center to show up as a point on the ship's mini-map system. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.205|172.70.214.205]] 08:58, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

;Cosmic topology?
Does space wrap around horizontally and vertically in a torus like the Atari ''Asteroids'' video game, or does it go on forever in all directions? If the former, how many times the area of the initial comic is it? [[Special:Contributions/172.71.154.159|172.71.154.159]] 07:33, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
: I've gotten to X = 1,000,000, no signs of wrapping around. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.189.113|172.70.189.113]] 22:52, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

;Game breaker
I found out that if run `ship.shields = false` and touch anything, the screen goes black forever.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.179.4|172.70.179.4]] 14:49, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

;Light mode

I don't see any mention yet of the "Light mode" button at X=1500, Y=-200000; it's clickable and inverts black and white for the comic. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.30.83|172.71.30.83]] 07:50, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
:I actually came across it a few days ago. I'm pretty sure I found it by holding down the thrusters from the starting position, but now that just sends me crashing into the USS Enterprise (and not even at the same angle every time, maybe due to lag) so either the position of something got changed or I'm remembering what I did wrong. [[User:SitkaFox|SitkaFox]] ([[User talk:SitkaFox|talk]]) 03:56, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

;More console shenanigans

Executing <code>window.python('import antigravity');</code> (referencing xkcd #353) in the console does what it says: gravity is reversed. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.30.83|172.71.30.83]] 07:50, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

;observations
this three-quarters planet seems to be impossible to get out of without the "warp" engines if you get in the center: https://i.imgur.com/tMchAa1.png

: Planet is not supposed to be three quarters, I'm guessing one of the tiles did not load for some reason. See [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wZSvRgB2dw03Md30PfDdSU03quygRVEw/view here]. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.35.69|172.70.35.69]] 18:08, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

i also got stuck in one planet by descending toward it very quickly https://i.imgur.com/9ilmtdK.png - in this state, descending and turning do nothing, but accelerating (pressing up) makes me slowly move downward and lets me turn very slowly

--[[Special:Contributions/172.70.114.7|172.70.114.7]] 15:01, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

also, i went toward this planet (downward) at high speed and became knit cap somehow https://i.imgur.com/JlRFuy4.png --[[Special:Contributions/172.70.230.160|172.70.230.160]] 15:16, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Instead of there being a wide "references" column with 4 sub-columns, I think it should be just a "references" column with what the reference is as the text, instead of it being a boolean. This also allows for more detail such as "What If 2, chapter 94: What if I made up a chapter name" or something like that [[Special:Contributions/172.71.22.22|172.71.22.22]] 15:46, 17 December 2022 (UTC)Bumpf

There is a planet at {x: 34704, y: -25501} with a space elevator attached to it. In that same planet, at {x: 31682, y: -34551}, there's a guy complaining about the framerate being "really bad out today"; the screen will stutter if you fly by him.

I think that the planet labeled "Earth" in the table is actually Mars. Apparently it has two asteroids orbiting it. [[User:N-eh|N-eh]] ([[User talk:N-eh|talk]]) 19:45, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

I managed to stitch the tiles for each location and therefore created a complete image of each of the 34 locations. Where can I upload this to? I uploaded the code here: https://github.com/roee30/xkcd-scripts
: Is it possible to make a google maps type zoomable version of your images like [http://xkcd-map.rent-a-geek.de/] is for [[1110: Click and Drag]]? [[Special:Contributions/172.71.166.123|172.71.166.123]] 22:54, 18 December 2022 (UTC)Bumpf

It already exists!
See : https://old.reddit.com/r/xkcd/comments/zo07ji/xkcd_2712_static_and_zoomable/ --[[Special:Contributions/172.70.242.39|172.70.242.39]] 22:02, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

== What if 2 planet ==

It's got a dinosaur being offered a hamburger, a person firing a cannon (one cannonball nearly goes into orbit) and if you can get yourself struck by one of the cannonballs the ship transforms.

I'm not sure if the transformed ship is BETTER, but it is different.

--[[Special:Contributions/172.70.131.52|172.70.131.52]] 17:19, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

== Underneath Europa's Crust ==

I managed to clip through the icy crust of Europa to the sea underneath (by flying at the planet really fast)... and there's stuff *down* here. Neat!

I'll update the table accordingly. [[User:TwilightWorlds|TwilightWorlds]] ([[User talk:TwilightWorlds|talk]]) 19:51, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

; I noticed some text that isn't written down on the transcript anywhere. Apologies if I'm doing something wrong, I've never contributed before. Here is the link to a screenshot of what I found. Not sure where it is, but hopefully it looks familiar. https://drive.google.com/file/d/11z1_mChMlWr2ZgJCksXEWiY17vosoMlI/view?usp=sharing

Maybe I'm crazy, but is it possible that the positions of some objects have been changed since the comic was posted? The other day, if I flew straight up from the starting point never disabling the engine, I'd get flung around by some gravity wells before being flung out in a direction that would, eventually, lead me right past the 'light mode' button. Today, however, I always end up crashing into the USS Enterprise, and to add to the weirdness, I don't even hit it at the same angle every time. Also, I hope I'm signing this right, it's my first post. [[User:SitkaFox|SitkaFox]] ([[User talk:SitkaFox|talk]]) 23:45, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

I noticed that the coordinates in the game code are not the same as the coordinates given by <code>[Comic.voyager.pos.x, Comic.voyager.pos.y]</code>. To convert between the two, multiply the x-coordinate by 2 and the y-coordinate by -2. [[User:Hdjensofjfnen|Hdjensofjfnen]] ([[User talk:Hdjensofjfnen|talk]]) 00:01, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
: of which one? voyager x pos = 2 * in game x pos? or in game x pos = 2 * voyager x pos?

== Stitched together image? ==

Would it be difficult to scrape the coords of everything and stitch it together into one large image/something with zoom-in and out a la those made for [[1110: Click and Drag]]?[[Special:Contributions/172.71.166.122|172.71.166.122]] 00:25, 18 December 2022 (UTC)Bumpf
: or maybe at least some zoom-out thing i can put into the console? [[Special:Contributions/172.71.30.64|172.71.30.64]] 00:35, 18 December 2022 (UTC)Bumpf
The pictures are tiles 1024*1024 px, file name as https://xkcd.com/2712/tile/origin_3_3.png, the last two digits varying from 0 to planet size. Done it for Origin but it seems I can't upload a file (?) [[User:Biem|Biem]] ([[User talk:Biem|talk]]) 08:09, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

Already working on this [[User:Majko|Majko]] ([[User talk:Majko|talk]]) 17:14, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

Done: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/12ZxoMn4Val_9ccJKKE7OMYkfSq54ectq?usp=sharing (turned out it would be a HUGE image so the planets are separate files). I leave adding it to the page to whoever has the permission to upload files here. [[User:Majko|Majko]] ([[User talk:Majko|talk]]) 19:24, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

Basic Zoomable Version here: https://old.reddit.com/r/xkcd/comments/zo07ji/xkcd_2712_static_and_zoomable/ --[[Special:Contributions/172.71.254.46|172.71.254.46]] 04:33, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

== Different coordinate systems ==

Coordinates in the game you use to teleport are 2 per pixel ([1000, 0] is 500 pixels from the origin). Coordinates in the json file are 1 per pixel. Should the coordinates in the page be adjusted to be in the "teleport coordinates"? [[User:Majko|Majko]] ([[User talk:Majko|talk]]) 17:14, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

== Navigation display ==

I created a simple “navigation panel” to show my current coordinates and velocity; write this into the developer console:
<pre>
document.getElementById('bottom').innerHTML += '<div id="coorddisplay" style="position:fixed;top:0;left:0;width:30em;height:2em;background:white;border:1px black solid"></div>';
setInterval(function() { document.getElementById('coorddisplay').innerText = `${Comic.voyager.pos.x.toFixed(2)}, ${Comic.voyager.pos.y.toFixed(2)}; ${Comic.voyager.pos.vx.toFixed(3)}, ${Comic.voyager.pos.vy.toFixed(3)}` }, 500)
</pre>
--[[User:Mormegil|Mormegil]] ([[User talk:Mormegil|talk]]) 09:00, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

I've expanded on Mormegil's idea to provide a distance to other planets and objects as well, including the light mode button!

<pre>

function round2(num) {
return Math.round(num * 100) / 100;
}
function distanceTo(ax, ay) {
return Math.sqrt(Math.pow(ax - pos.x,2) + Math.pow(ay - pos.y, 2))
}
function planetIsNearby(p) {
const [px,py] = p.loc()
d = distanceTo(px, py)
const isNearby = d < p.radius * 5;
return [d, isNearby]
}
function compareDistances(pd1, pd2) {
return pd1.d - pd2.d;
}
function objectIsNearby(o) {
d = distanceTo(o.x, o.y)
const isNearby = d < 250;
return [d, isNearby]
}

comic = window.Comic
voyager = comic.voyager
opts = voyager.opts
pos = voyager.pos
remainingObjects = [...opts.objects];

let planets = [
{"id":"b612","width":2048,"height":2048,"radius":82,"gravity":60,"x":5220,"y":-7400},
{"id":"dogplanet","width":2048,"height":2048,"radius":337,"gravity":600,"x":2480,"y":-22460},
{"id":"earth","width":16384,"height":16384,"radius":3275,"gravity":21000,"x":28720,"y":-28720},
{"id":"enterprise","width":2048,"height":2048,"radius":160,"gravity":200,"x":2020,"y":-60880},
{"id":"europa","width":8192,"height":8192,"radius":1625,"gravity":5000,"x":26360,"y":5080},
{"id":"goodhart","width":8192,"height":8192,"radius":1625,"gravity":9000,"x":-26600,"y":6520},
{"id":"greatattractor","width":4096,"height":4096,"radius":800,"gravity":450000,"x":-594000,"y":250000},
{"id":"japanmoon","width":2048,"height":2048,"radius":67,"gravity":50,"x":-11860,"y":11600},
{"id":"maw1","width":2048,"height":2048,"radius":18,"gravity":2000,"x":-63152,"y":18154},
{"id":"maw10","width":2048,"height":2048,"radius":15,"gravity":2000,"x":-59032,"y":12642},
{"id":"maw11","width":2048,"height":2048,"radius":12,"gravity":2000,"x":-58762,"y":12496},
{"id":"maw12","width":2048,"height":2048,"radius":18,"gravity":2000,"x":-53664,"y":11856},
{"id":"maw13","width":2048,"height":2048,"radius":18,"gravity":2000,"x":-63486,"y":9448},
{"id":"maw14","width":2048,"height":2048,"radius":18,"gravity":2000,"x":-52142,"y":21648},
{"id":"maw2","width":2048,"height":2048,"radius":18,"gravity":2000,"x":-60422,"y":17662},
{"id":"maw3","width":2048,"height":2048,"radius":18,"gravity":2000,"x":-55950,"y":16532},
{"id":"maw4","width":2048,"height":2048,"radius":18,"gravity":2000,"x":-59092,"y":15942},
{"id":"maw5","width":2048,"height":2048,"radius":18,"gravity":2000,"x":-59582,"y":15262},
{"id":"maw6","width":2048,"height":2048,"radius":18,"gravity":2000,"x":-58656,"y":15150},
{"id":"maw7","width":2048,"height":2048,"radius":18,"gravity":2000,"x":-59400,"y":14852},
{"id":"maw8","width":2048,"height":2048,"radius":18,"gravity":2000,"x":-58330,"y":14320},
{"id":"maw9","width":2048,"height":2048,"radius":18,"gravity":2000,"x":-61544,"y":13820},
{"id":"nojapan","width":2048,"height":2048,"radius":200,"gravity":80,"x":-15360,"y":11700},
{"id":"origin","width":4096,"height":4096,"radius":630,"gravity":2300,"x":0,"y":0},
{"id":"outside","width":16384,"height":16384,"radius":125,"gravity":200,"x":0,"y":29000},
{"id":"peeler","width":2048,"height":2048,"radius":40,"gravity":50,"x":-18540,"y":-1240},
{"id":"pigeons","width":2048,"height":2048,"radius":160,"gravity":100,"x":-18040,"y":4980},
{"id":"present","width":2048,"height":2048,"radius":195,"gravity":300,"x":45640,"y":37840},
{"id":"qwantz","width":4096,"height":4096,"radius":850,"gravity":1400,"x":22120,"y":-49740},
{"id":"remnant","width":4096,"height":4096,"radius":537,"gravity":9000,"x":39240,"y":-7600},
{"id":"roads","width":16384,"height":16384,"radius":30,"gravity":40,"x":26480,"y":23020},
{"id":"soupiter","width":4096,"height":4096,"radius":812,"gravity":1300,"x":-16000,"y":18080},
{"id":"steerswoman","width":4096,"height":4096,"radius":520,"gravity":600,"x":-70140,"y":5000},
{"id":"sun","width":16384,"height":16384,"radius":540,"gravity":9000,"x":-29900,"y":-24160}
]
for (const planet of planets) {
planet.loc = () => { return [planet.x, planet.y]};
}
remainingPlanets = [...planets];

comicElem = document.getElementById('comic');
posbox = document.createElement("pre");
posbox.id = 'posbox'
comicElem.after(posbox)

objectNames = ['tintin', 'figure','ship2', 'soccer', 'lightmode'];
i = 0;
for (const obj of opts.objects) {
obj.id = objectNames[i];
i += 1;
}

function decreaseStrongGravity() {
//If you get a breakpoint in onTick you should be able to see the closure variable
// Hn, and if you set:
// planets = Hn;
// In the Console while you are breakpointed there, then this will allow you to
// take off from any planet
for (const p of planets) {
if (p.gravity / (p.radius * p.radius) > 0.02) {
p.gravity = 0.02 * (p.radius * p.radius);
}
}
}

let intv = 0
if (intv !== 0) {
clearInterval(intv);
}
intv = setInterval(() => {
const playerPos = `${Math.round(pos.x / 100)}, ${Math.round(pos.y / 100)}`
const playerVel = `${round2(pos.vx)}, ${round2(pos.vy)}, ${pos.va}`
const planetDistances = [];
for (const planet of planets) {
const [d, isNearby] = planetIsNearby(planet);
if (isNearby) {
planetDistances.push({d, s:` - ${isNearby ? "NEARBY" : ""} ${planet.id}: ${Math.round(d / 100)}`});
}
}
for (const planet of remainingPlanets) {
const [d, isNearby] = planetIsNearby(planet);
if (!isNearby) {
planetDistances.push({d, s:` - ${isNearby ? "NEARBY" : ""} ${planet.id}: ${Math.round(d / 100)}`});
}
}
planetDistances.sort(compareDistances);
// If you're very close to a planet, take it off the list
remainingPlanets = remainingPlanets.filter(p => {const [d, isNearby] = planetIsNearby(p); return !isNearby;})

const objectDistances = [];

for (const obj of opts.objects) {
const [d, isNearby] = objectIsNearby(obj);
if (isNearby) {
objectDistances.push({d, s:` - ${isNearby ? "NEARBY" : ""} ${obj.id}: ${Math.round(d / 100)}`});
}
}
for (const obj of remainingObjects) {
const [d, isNearby] = objectIsNearby(obj);
if (!isNearby) {
objectDistances.push({d, s:` - ${isNearby ? "NEARBY" : ""} ${obj.id}: ${Math.round(d / 100)}`});
}
}
objectDistances.sort(compareDistances);
// If you're very close to a coin or the button, take it off the list
remainingObjects = remainingObjects.filter(p => {const [d, isNearby] = objectIsNearby(p); return !isNearby;})

posbox.innerHTML = `${playerPos}` + "\n" + `${playerVel}` + "\n" + planetDistances.map(pd => pd.s).join("\n")+ "\n" + objectDistances.map(pd => pd.s).join("\n");
}, 500);

</pre>

-- [[Special:Contributions/162.158.146.80|162.158.146.80]]

== Inspiration for Japan missing? ==

Could it be a reference to Japan being absent from maps edited by the PRC's government? For example, this PRC-sponsored video features a map in the intro where Japan is missing. https://youtu.be/e0oJtuljYRo [[User:Ck|Ck]] ([[User talk:Ck|talk]]) 12:58, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

Not just PRC maps. Missing island on stylized world maps are pretty common. See https://old.reddit.com/r/mapswithoutJapan/ and https://old.reddit.com/r/MapsWithoutNZ/ --[[Special:Contributions/172.70.131.103|172.70.131.103]] 15:01, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

This is no longer plausible when *all* the other, much smaller islands, like especially Corsica and fine detail in the Philippines, are all present and correctly shaped! [[User:Ck|Ck]] ([[User talk:Ck|talk]]) 15:46, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

Perhaps a stretch, but in the Webcomic Starslip Crisis, [https://starslip.krisstraub.com/20050802.shtml Japan successfully launched itself into space]. [[User:Nedlum|Nedlum]] ([[User talk:Nedlum|talk]]) 16:18, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

Apparently you have not read WhatIf 2. One of the questions is "What if Japan wasn't there" This is a reference to that. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.124|172.69.33.124]] 00:02, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

The above assertion is probably/certainly the reason but, going with the general note of missing islands, it's [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/3715512.stm not always ''islands'' that go inexplicably missing]... ;) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.31|141.101.99.31]] 01:41, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

== Black Hole Maw ==

Is the cluster of black holes, labeled "maw", possibly related to the Maw Cluster in Star Wars?[[User:Nedlum|Nedlum]] ([[User talk:Nedlum|talk]]) 17:00, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

In the cluster of the black holes there is a small white planet about the size of the spaceship, which does not appear to show any gravity. It can be found at [-60050, 16150]. --[[Special:Contributions/172.70.246.211|172.70.246.211]] 20:27, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

The "edge of the universe" planet is missing. Teleporting there with the console command teleports you a few seconds of flight between Soupiter and the Milliway Restaurant.

== Jurassic Park ninja ==
If you bump into the little dot next to the guy pushing a rock uphill, your spaceship turns into a little ninja guy. Not sure what the reference is.
: not Jurassic Park. It's on Goodhart. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.69.7|172.69.69.7]] 04:03, 20 December 2022 (UTC)Bumpf

https://xkcd.com/2713/ is up (Data Point).[[Special:Contributions/172.71.222.108|172.71.222.108]] 03:39, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

2712: Gravity

2022-12-17T20:45:26Z

172.70.210.145: Rename section

{{comic
| number = 2712
| date = December 16, 2022
| title = Gravity
| image = gravity_2x.png
| imagesize = 740x700px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = It's a long way down.
}}

*To experience the interactivity, visit the [http://xkcd.com/2712/ original comic].
==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by HOTBLACK DESIATO'S TAX RETURNS - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
In this interactive comic, the viewer pilots a small spaceship throughout a vast area in space. The viewer is capable of exploring various bodies and planets within the play area, many containing easter eggs alluding to What If? 2 and previous xkcd comics. The flight mechanics are largely, if not entirely, Newtonian, so the vessel is capable of using the gravity of planets to alter its trajectory or even enter orbit. The spaceship has several indicator circles around it which appear when a gravitational body comes into range, showing the direction towards their center of gravity.

The comic may not render properly on mobile devices, and it may require a keyboard to interact with. The arrow keys rotate the spaceship and accelerate it forward and backward.

After launching the spaceship, it is possible to catch glimpses (for the fraction of a second) of other celestial bodies than the spaceship, every 30 minutes or so, as long as the player keep pointing the nose of the spaceship towards the gravity indicators.

Throughout the play area are coins that change the spaceship into different rockets and non-space based vehicles, including humans.

The comic promotes Randall's new book [https://xkcd.com/what-if-2/ What If? 2], which was released in September and is available for purchase. Many of the planets contain references to various What If? articles.

The comic is similar to [[1608: Hoverboard]], which celebrated Thing Explainer instead.

===Celestial Bodies===

The following is an incomplete table of features:

{|class="wikitable sortable"
!
!
!
! colspan="4"|References
!
|-
! Description
! Transcript
! Tiles (X, Y)
! What If
! XKCD
! Movies
! Other
! Explanation
|-
|'''Starting planet'''
|
|(14360, 14360)
|
|
|
|
|The starting planet. The player begins on the launch pad in a landed position. Collecting the orbiting cannonball will transform you into a more advanced rocket.
|-
|'''Earth'''
|
|(27867,-35648)
|
|
|
|
|A planet with among other things; a crane dropping a comet onto a dinosaur, unusually high speed squirrels, meghan inviting cueball into a pool, a region where the frame rate is intentionally limited, a flagpole, a literal rabbithole referencing the figurativly speaking rabbit hole, someone aiming at a satellite with an arrow, a lake with an eel, the earth-moon firepole, a volcano, two figures being attacked by a third with a sword, two kids playing soccer (Catching the ball will turn the ship into a soccer ball), a frmer on a tractor being stuck in what seems elastic earth, a banana pile, meghan and cueball digging a hole (in the center of this planet is the "earth's core" referenced below, the niagra falls water being redirected into the LHC, Japan(?) leaving earth, a tue to the bottom of the ocean and a reference to everyoneorjustme.com
|-
|Earth's core
|
|
|
|
|
|
|[[Cueball]] and [[Megan]] floating in a small space in the center of the planet in inverted rotations.
|-
|'''Europa'''
|
|(13180, -2540)
|
|
|
|
|Europa, one of Jupiter's many moons (in real life). A broken, icy crust has a single path into its core.
|-
|Europa's crust
|"It's so unfair we don't get to compete in EuroVision."
"The region of the solar system where liquid water can exist on the surface is the habitable zone, and the region where it can exist beneath the surface of moons is the Eurozone."

"WHIRRRR"
|
|Y
|
|
|
|Europa's crust, with a single entrance into the core demarcated by an octopus leaving a hole.
Cueball states that Europa is in the Eurozone, a pun on the ''other'' Eurozone, with liquid underneath its surface.

A roomba whirs across the icy crust.

Cueball has a hairdryer and is melting the surface of the crust. A direct reference to [https://what-if.xkcd.com/35/ What If's Hairdryer].
|-
|Europa's core
|
|
|
|
|
|
|A watery ocean with octopi looking out into the great unknown using telescopes. This is a reference to octopus's intelligence here on earth! There's also a secret path leading to a book club, through the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald.
|-
|'''B-612'''
|"Asteroid deflection mission to earth. The package is delivered. Commencing planetary threat neutralization."
|(2610,3700)
|
|Y
|
|
|A reference to [https://xkcd.com/618/ Asteroid]. The little prince is having his asteroid blown up as it was heading towards Earth, apparently.
|-
|'''Dog park planet'''
|
|(1240, 11230)
|
|
|
|
|A planet with a dog park. Covered in dogs, along with dog walkers and some fences. There's a hole being dug by two dogs and a dog bone empty space in the center.
|-
|'''What If? 2 scenario planet'''
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|-
|'''The Sun'''
|
|(-14950, 12080)
|
|
|
|
|Difficult to escape from if you hit the core.
|-
|Sun's core
|
|
|Y
|
|
|
|Difficult to escape from. Can be escaped by rotating around the sun until an escape-like velocity could be reached.
|-
|'''Soupiter'''
|
|(-800, -9040)
|Y
|
|
|
|A planet made of soup, with a core. As commented by Cueball, noodle soup. Has several small versions of other planets floating around it.
|-
|'''Earth without Japan'''
|
|(-7680, -5850)
|Y
|
|
|
|Earth, except it's missing japan.
|-
|'''Just Japan'''
|
|
|Y
|
|
|
|
|-
|'''A blob labeled "Pigeons"'''
|
|(-9020, -2490)
|Y
|
|
|
|A reference to Chapter 6 of What If? 2, where it would take 1.6 x 10^25 pigeons to lift you and a chair up to the halfway point of Australia's Q1 skyscraper.
|-
|'''Starship Enterprise'''
|
|
|
|
|Y
|
|Star Trek reference
|-
|'''Dinosaur planet'''
|
| (20403,-49559)
|
|
|Y
|
|An homage to [https://www.qwantz.com/ Dinosaur Comics], a webcomic Randall has mentioned several times before. All the dinosaurs on the planet are black-and-white versions of the clip art dinosaurs in that comic. Also references the Jurassic Park movies, in which the long grass depicted is a plot point in later films.
|-
|'''What If? 1 scenario planet'''
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|-
|'''Cat blocking traffic flowing through portals'''
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|-
|'''Edge of the Universe'''
|
| ( 6081, 26138 )
|
|
|
|
|It looks like a planet labeled "edge of the universe". Outside the universe, so inside the "edge of the universe planet", is another universe, the bubble universe. Hidden entrance is between 10 and 11 'o clock.
|-
|'''A tree larger than the planet it's growing on'''
|
|
|
|Y
|
|
|May be a reference to [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/2:_Petit_Trees_(sketch) Petit Trees]. More probably, a reference to ''The Little Prince'', a french children's novel about a traveler from a distant asteroid. In the novel, baobab trees are a serious threat to the Prince's home asteroid, as they are so large that their roots would engulf the asteroid entirely. Randall has alluded to The Little Prince numerous times before, especially in what-if articles.
|-
|'''Milliways'''
|
|
|
|
|Y
|
|Hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy reference
|-
|'''The Great Attractor'''
|
|
|
|Y
|
|
|
|-
|'''Present'''
|"I didn't do any of my Christmas shopping yet because I was too busy drawing tiny planets."
"I'm done with my shopping! I got everyone What if? 2"

"...You got me my own book?"

"Yeah! I figured that since you wrote it, it must be right up your alley."

"It does make a good gift, though. You can get it at xkcd.com/whatif2"

"I got you this present!"

"Is it an angry bobcat?"

"It might not be."
|(22820,-18920)
|
|Y
|
|
|The XKCD cast react to giving each other What if 2? as a present. Gravity at the bottom of the missing quarter of the planet is inescapable. Black Hat gives Cueball a "gift" which he claims "might not be a bobcat", a reference to [[A-Minus-Minus]]
|-
|'''Black hole cluster'''
|
|
|
|
|
|
|A cluster of black holes with extremely high gravitational strength, set to the maximum of 2048. Not particularly easy to land on with multiple conflicting gravitational fields, but once landed on, rather difficult to escape.
|-
|'''Remnant'''
|"All right, that's close enough"
"Oh no"

"So don't delay, act now, supplies are running out"

"In 5 billion years, the Sun will run out of fuel and suffer gigennial burnout."

"The immense gravity of the sun's remnant means that this is the tallest possible skyscraper."
|(19620, 3800)
|
|
|
|
|A stellar remnant, with high gravity (making it difficult to escape, although it's possible to achieve escape velocity by flying sideways). Has various small landmarks, including a "skyscraper" and suspension bridge. There are bombs being dropped from above the planet, with one that seems to be sledding on the planet.
|-
|'''Steerswoman Planet'''
|"As a Steerswoman, I have to answer any question anyone asks me, or I'm expelled from the order."
"What's one question that you would be unwilling to answer?"
"Oh no."

"Handle this artifact with great care. It contains a magical wizard's potion which the ancients called 'trinitrotoluene'"
|
|
|
|
|
|A reference to the Steerswoman series of books by Rosemary Kirstein. Includes a number of references to the series, including a group of people observing a small object orbiting the planet.
|}

===Ships===
{|class="wikitable sortable"
|-
! Name
! Description
! Location
! Filename
! Image
|-
|Default
|The starting ship.
|
|ship2
|
|-
| Tintin
|
| On the starting planet, relatively easy to get
| ship-tintin
|
|-
| Figure
|Stick figure
|On Goodhart
|ship-figure
|
|-
| Soccer ball
| Soccer ball shaped ship
|
|ship-soccerball
|
|-
|Alternative Ship
|Slightly thicker version of default ship
|
|ship1
|}

==Data Dump==

extracted from a JSON blob near the bottom of <code>https://xkcd.com/2712/comic.js</code>.
I believe this to be all the data but i'm not sure. this should probably be on a different page but i'll leave that up to the smart people
<pre style="height:10em;overflow-y:scroll;">
{
"items": {
"coin-cannonball": {
"consumable": "yes",
"effect": "transformship|ship-tintin",
"image": "coin",
"loc": [
359,
-815
],
"size": [
40,
40
]
},
"coin-figure": {
"consumable": "yes",
"effect": "transformship|ship-figure",
"image": "figure",
"loc": [
-15050,
-2984
],
"size": [
40,
40
]
},
"coin-regular": {
"consumable": "yes",
"effect": "transformship|ship2",
"image": "regular",
"loc": [
-29976,
-8077
],
"size": [
40,
40
]
},
"coin-soccerball": {
"consumable": "yes",
"effect": "transformship|ship-soccer",
"image": "soccerball",
"loc": [
15293,
11140
],
"size": [
40,
40
]
}
},
"locations": {
"b612": {
"gravity": 60,
"height": 2048,
"loc": [
2610,
3700
],
"radius": 82,
"width": 2048
},
"dogplanet": {
"gravity": 300,
"height": 2048,
"loc": [
1240,
11230
],
"radius": 337,
"width": 2048
},
"earth": {
"gravity": 21000,
"height": 16384,
"loc": [
14360,
14360
],
"radius": 3275,
"width": 16384
},
"enterprise": {
"gravity": 200,
"height": 2048,
"loc": [
1010,
30440
],
"radius": 160,
"width": 2048
},
"europa": {
"gravity": 5000,
"height": 8192,
"loc": [
13180,
-2540
],
"radius": 1625,
"width": 8192
},
"goodhart": {
"gravity": 5000,
"height": 8192,
"loc": [
-13300,
-3260
],
"radius": 1625,
"width": 8192
},
"greatattractor": {
"gravity": 450000,
"height": 4096,
"loc": [
-297000,
-125000
],
"radius": 800,
"width": 4096
},
"japanmoon": {
"gravity": 50,
"height": 2048,
"loc": [
-5930,
-5800
],
"radius": 67,
"width": 2048
},
"maw1": {
"gravity": 2000,
"height": 2048,
"loc": [
-31576,
-9077
],
"radius": 18,
"width": 2048
},
"maw10": {
"gravity": 2000,
"height": 2048,
"loc": [
-29516,
-6321
],
"radius": 15,
"width": 2048
},
"maw11": {
"gravity": 2000,
"height": 2048,
"loc": [
-29381,
-6248
],
"radius": 12,
"width": 2048
},
"maw12": {
"gravity": 2000,
"height": 2048,
"loc": [
-26832,
-5928
],
"radius": 18,
"width": 2048
},
"maw13": {
"gravity": 2000,
"height": 2048,
"loc": [
-31743,
-4724
],
"radius": 18,
"width": 2048
},
"maw14": {
"gravity": 2000,
"height": 2048,
"loc": [
-26071,
-10824
],
"radius": 18,
"width": 2048
},
"maw2": {
"gravity": 2000,
"height": 2048,
"loc": [
-30211,
-8831
],
"radius": 18,
"width": 2048
},
"maw3": {
"gravity": 2000,
"height": 2048,
"loc": [
-27975,
-8266
],
"radius": 18,
"width": 2048
},
"maw4": {
"gravity": 2000,
"height": 2048,
"loc": [
-29546,
-7971
],
"radius": 18,
"width": 2048
},
"maw5": {
"gravity": 2000,
"height": 2048,
"loc": [
-29791,
-7631
],
"radius": 18,
"width": 2048
},
"maw6": {
"gravity": 2000,
"height": 2048,
"loc": [
-29328,
-7575
],
"radius": 18,
"width": 2048
},
"maw7": {
"gravity": 2000,
"height": 2048,
"loc": [
-29700,
-7426
],
"radius": 18,
"width": 2048
},
"maw8": {
"gravity": 2000,
"height": 2048,
"loc": [
-29165,
-7160
],
"radius": 18,
"width": 2048
},
"maw9": {
"gravity": 2000,
"height": 2048,
"loc": [
-30772,
-6910
],
"radius": 18,
"width": 2048
},
"nojapan": {
"gravity": 80,
"height": 2048,
"loc": [
-7680,
-5850
],
"radius": 200,
"width": 2048
},
"origin": {
"gravity": 1500,
"height": 4096,
"loc": [
0,
0
],
"radius": 630,
"width": 4096
},
"outside": {
"gravity": 200,
"height": 16384,
"loc": [
0,
-14500
],
"radius": 125,
"width": 16384
},
"peeler": {
"gravity": 50,
"height": 2048,
"loc": [
-9270,
620
],
"radius": 40,
"width": 2048
},
"pigeons": {
"gravity": 100,
"height": 2048,
"loc": [
-9020,
-2490
],
"radius": 160,
"width": 2048
},
"present": {
"gravity": 300,
"height": 2048,
"loc": [
22820,
-18920
],
"radius": 195,
"width": 2048
},
"qwantz": {
"gravity": 1400,
"height": 4096,
"loc": [
11060,
24870
],
"radius": 850,
"width": 4096
},
"remnant": {
"gravity": 9000,
"height": 4096,
"loc": [
19620,
3800
],
"radius": 537,
"width": 4096
},
"roads": {
"gravity": 40,
"height": 16384,
"loc": [
13240,
-11510
],
"radius": 30,
"width": 16384
},
"soupiter": {
"gravity": 1300,
"height": 4096,
"loc": [
-8000,
-9040
],
"radius": 812,
"width": 4096
},
"steerswoman": {
"gravity": 600,
"height": 4096,
"loc": [
-35070,
-2500
],
"radius": 520,
"width": 4096
},
"sun": {
"gravity": 9000,
"height": 16384,
"loc": [
-14950,
12080
],
"radius": 540,
"width": 16384
}
},
"player": {
"animation": "player.png",
"animcount": 4,
"startloc": [
0,
750
],
"targetheight": 59
},
"tile_height": 1024,
"tile_source": "tile",
"tile_width": 1024
}

</pre>

==Hacks==
'''Modes''' are activated by opening the Javascript Console (F12 [Or Command-Alt-I in most browsers under Mac OS X] to open Developer Tools, then Console tab) and writing corresponding commands. 
'''Click to expand:''' 

<div class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed leftAlign" style="width:100%">
 
*'''Googles:''' ''ze.googles()'' - returns a warning: "they do nothing!". This is a reference to Hoverboard, where ''ze.googles()'' would give you the ability to see false walls.
*'''Speedhack:''' ''ship.engines = "warp"'' - Speed hacking, sets speed to 1.4x. set to "standard" to reset to normal speed
*'''Chaos Mode''' ''ship.engines="infinite improbability drive" '' - Seems to randomly teleports the ship
*'''Insta Death''' ''ship.shields = false'' - Kill the player if they land on a planet, the code never sets it to false, so it seems to be always true.
*'''No Clip''' ''noclip = true'' - Enables noclip.
*'''Select ship''' ''Comic.ship = "ship-tintin"'' - Select ship (use filename from list of ships)
*'''Autorotate''' ''Comic.cameraRotation = false'' - View does not rotate with ship)
</div>
 

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

Welcome!

To celebrate the world of what if? 2, here is your very own planet to explore!

Give someone the science question-and-answer book what if? 2 for Christmas:
xkcd.com/whatif2

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Space]]
[[Category:Book promotion]]
[[Category:Interactive comics]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Black Hat]]
[[Category:Bobcats]]

2542: Daylight Calendar

2022-10-17T03:47:27Z

172.70.210.145: /* Transcript */ likely megan

{{comic
| number = 2542
| date = November 15, 2021
| title = Daylight Calendar
| image = daylight_calendar.png
| titletext = Could be worse. In some towns north of here, it's already December, and the 21st will last for nearly a week.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created at CINNAMON O'CLOCK - No direct explanation on how the 21 december for a week comes about in the title text. Only indirect from other parts of explanation. Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

At the time of this posting, the United States had ended {{w|daylight saving time}} (DST) recently, on November 7, and returned to standard time. Daylight saving time is a practice of setting clocks ahead by 1 hour during warmer months to effectively 'borrow' some of the typically unused early morning light and pass it down to the late evening where more people can make use of it. In the United States, daylight saving time starts on the second Sunday in March and ends on the first Sunday in November.

A result of ending of daylight saving time is the sun setting earlier than people are used to, as people have become acclimatised to the shifted clocks — though it does mean an 'extra' hour of light has returned to the seasonally redarkening mornings. The start of the comic may be the start of a typical comment about how the sun seems to set earlier than usual in November; which it does anyway (north of the equator) but the clock-shift makes it even more obvious.

In this comic, however, Randall turns the normal talk about DST on its head by devising a [[:Category:Calendar|calendar system]] where the dates "change" based on 12 hours of daylight. This causes shorter "days" in the summer months, which may get more than 12 hours of daylight in a "solar day" and longer "days" in the winter months which would have fewer hours of daylight in a "solar day". As mentioned in the title text, this change would be very pronounced near the poles, which may only get a few hours of daylight per 24 hours in the winter, but conversely may get 20 or more hours of daylight per 24 hours in the summer. Cueball says that he likes the new calendar system, as it gives him more "time" in the winter to complete work - if Cueball is given "3 days" to complete a task, each of those days could be longer than a typical 24 hours. However, this would be reversed in the summer, as each day would be shorter. Also, if this calendar system was in place, his boss could resolve this problem by just giving him 72 hours to complete his task instead of "3 days".

At temperate latitudes and above, as the calendar goes towards winter (for your hemisphere) the length of daylight per daily cycle shortens. Instead of having "long summer days" (i.e. periods of daylight) and shorter ones in the winter, but still the artificial pressures of a regulated 24-hour cycle to adhere to, the proposal seems to be that the date gets incremented whenever (and ''only'' when) twelve hours of daylight have passed.

In the summer, a day-count starting at sunrise could require a late-afternoon switch to 'tomorrow', which would in turn be switched earlier still the next day as it was already partly used up, with possibly two date-changes per astronomical day (early morning and mid-evening, for example). As winter draws on, not enough daylight will pass to guarantee a date-change in any single period. On the day of this comic's release - November 15, 2021 - Massachusetts, where Randall lives, gets ten hours and forty five minutes between {{w|civil twilight}}s. It is possible that the last day-mark was late during the previous daylight cycle and the next one won't be until early in the following one.

Depending on how exactly daylight is measured, we may have more "days" in a year than the usual 365, since refraction of light near the horizon means that the sun is visible slightly more than 50% of the year on average. This effect is strongest near the poles, since the sun spends more time near the horizon. In addition, due the Earth's elliptical orbit, more northerly parts of the Earth receive more sunlight than southerly parts. Combined, these effects mean that a year at the north pole is 381 "days", compared to 369 at the Equator.

Exactly how the time is marked is not fully explained. Starting each day-period at 00:00 would be easiest, but could be a psychological step too far. One possibility is to set a nominal 00:00 six hours before a day-change, in line with an 'idealised' twelve-hours-of-daylight day, but disregard hours 'belonging' to a prior daylight period. Then keep the clock running (throughout any intervening nights and into the next daylight as necessary) until the date clicks over and realigns as necessary. Clock times would not reach 23:59 for most of the summer, and could far exceed that in the winter. Megan's clock has reached 26:15, by this sunset, and may well be due to be far into the 30-hours range before more daylight and the moving on to the new date and reset time, if not beyond.

Beyond the arctic (and antarctic) circle, twelve hours of daylight would be accumulated up twice per traditional day, at times, while being effectively on hold for much of the other six months, depending upon actual latitude.

==Transcript==
:[Megan is looking down at her phone which she holds up in her hand, while Cueball stands next to her]:
:Megan: Ugh, I hate November. It's 26:15 and the sun is setting ''again!''
:Megan: 3-day days are the worst.
:Cueball: I like it. I know it's dark, but it's nice to have the extra time on deadlines.

:[Caption below the panel]:
:In our new calendar system, the date changes after every 12 hours of daylight, regardless of how long that takes.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Calendar]]
[[Category:Daylight saving time]]

2684: Road Space Comparison

2022-10-14T08:22:49Z

172.70.210.145: /* Explanation */ guys I just spent half an hour looking at human hamster wheel videos on YouTube and I can say that while a stunt professional could probably pull this off, I for one am not going to try it EVER

{{comic
| number = 2684
| date = October 12, 2022
| title = Road Space Comparison
| image = road_space_comparison_2x.png
| imagesize = 740x1157px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = I wonder how hard it would be to ride an electric scooter in a hamster ball.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a WALKABLE ELECTRIC HAMPSTER BALL ENJOYER - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
The comic is a parody of a common comparison done in arguments for walkable cities - the amount of usable space taken up by cars and car-centric infrastructure that could be eliminated for other useful public amenities. The first of these may be from 1965[https://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/collections/collections-online/posters/item/1983-4-7561].

The first 4 images are common, real-life comparisons involving people walking, people on bicycles, public transport, and cars, which distinctly show how cars take up significantly more space for the same number of people than the other methods of transport. However, from this point the comic becomes more and more absurd in its comparisons.

The 5th one shows 50 people on what may be a tandem bicycle (although seems more likely to actually be a string of {{w|trailer bike}}s, due to person-separation and being clearly non-rigid). This would obviously be impractical in a city due to the tandem's sheer length and would not be able to work with fewer people due to its sheer mass. The [https://www.active.com/articles/bicycle-built-for-52-pedals-into-guinness-book longest compound cycle] holds 52 people, while an actual tandem bicycle exists that has at least [https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/346988346267601955/ 35 seats].

The 6th one involves 20 people driving 40 cars, with each person driving 2 cars at a time by straddling them in the middle. Besides being unwieldy and impractical, it would also be extremely dangerous as the cars could go out of control at any time. Perhaps the cars would be a paired mix of left-hand-drive and right-hand-drive models, although with enough push-rods/levers (to also reach the traditional foot controls, and also gear sticks unless ''fully'' automatic) this might not be as important. However, even if the cars were perfectly safe to drive, it would be unsafe to drive them on most roads; roads with only one lane per direction are common, everywhere from city streets to exit ramps, and attempts to drive a pair of cars down such a road side by side are unlikely to end well.

(Of course, worse than any of these petty safety concerns is the fact that each person takes up twice as much road space, making most infrastructure a bit less efficient.)

The 7th one has 30 cars riding on 6 buses by stacking them on top of each other. Assuming the same people-per-car/bus from the earlier examples, this arrangement would have about 345 people riding on the same road! (Unless, of course, the buses are carrying 30 cars ''instead of'' their normal passengers.) In addition, people getting out of the cars when they reach their destination would be a problem for most cars in this arrangement due to them being stacked under other cars or surrounded by them. And as in the previous example, it would be impossible to safely drive anywhere without two clear lanes...and the body count would be considerably higher.

The 8th panel has 50 people in hamster balls. Randall has shown his interest in human sized [[:Category:Hamster Ball|hamster ball]] transportation before, and indeed this would be an enjoyable way to traverse a road, provided no other hamster balls try to drive into you and knock you off the road. The image shows 39 hamster balls, implying that roughly one in four has a passenger; under these constraints, they appear to be slightly more efficient than cars. Another explanation for 39 balls is that there are more hamster balls than are able to be shown on the road diagram.

The 9th panel has 40 tiny cars pulling a big one. Such feats of strengths are a common sight while setting world records, so maybe this is a world record attempt by the cars in question. It is unknown how many people fit in the big car; judging by its size, it likely fits more than a single bus and less than three.

The 10th panel is a 50 person variation on the classic {{w|wolf, goat and cabbage problem}} (which has also been [[2348: Boat Puzzle|referenced before]] by Randall) except this one involves 30 goats, 20 cabbages and 10 wolves trying to cross the now-flooded road with a single boat. It is not known how many people (or cabbages for that matter) the boat fits, but since humans significantly outnumber the goats, cabbages and wolves, it seems like a much simpler problem, though not necessarily without difficulty. It is, however, rather off that there is a conveniently placed dock at the edge of the water, implying that the road gets flooded often enough to warrant a permanent dock to be installed.

The initial bicycles and singular bus are actually (mostly) using the left-hand lane of the three shown, for whatever reason. This would not be unusual on British highways or {{w|Left- and right-hand traffic#Worldwide distribution by country|other countries}} using their system, whether the lanes seen are just one of the directional carriageways of a multi-lane split highway or the centre-lane is a gantry-signed {{w|Reversible lane|'tidal lane'}} of a fully two-way street. Though it is considered bad practice to ride bikes three-abreast and across lanes, and would (intentionally or otherwise) generally annoy motorists. Yet people who have to walk on a road (due to no footway) are advised to walk facing oncoming traffic (the right-hand side, in the same jurisdiction) and not bunched up. It would be interesting to know why Randall, much more familiar with US road conventions, would have offset these various road-users the way he did (rather than hogging the central lane, or across the ''entire'' highway width as he did with the other diagrams in the series).

The title text proposes a problem related to another alternative form of transport — the electric scooter. Randall wonders how well an electric scooter would function when run inside the hamster ball. While this could function like a spherical {{w|monowheel}}, it might also be very dangerous.

==Transcript==
:[Overhead views of ten segments of highway in two rows with a caption above. Each road segment has a caption and a different scenario.]
:Road Space Comparison

:[50 people in the bottom left of the highway, all fitting into a single lane and taking up about a fourth of the length of the road.]
:50 people walking

:[50 bike riders in the bottom left of the highway, extending about halfway up the road and spilling over slightly into the second-to-leftmost lane]
:50 people riding bikes

:[A single bus, fitting into roughly the same space as the 50 people from the first scenario]
:50 people riding a bus

:[33 cars, taking up the entire length of all three lanes]
:50 people in 33 cars

:[One long string of connected bike riders, curving slightly and extending down the entire length of the middle lane]
:50 people on one tandem bicicle

:[40 cars in pairs, each pair with a single person straddling the windows between them. They take up the entire highway segment and each pair extends partway from the outer lanes into the middle]
:20 people driving 40 cars

:[Six buses on the lines between lanes taking up the majority of the highway, 30 cars arranged in stacks across the top]
:30 cars riding on 6 buses

:[39 evenly-spaced hamster balls with a person inside each, taking up the majority of the highway except a space at the top]
:50 people in human-sized hamster balls

:[An oversized car taking up all three lanes at the bottom of the highway, with a pair of ropes and a beam attatched to the front bumper. The beam is attached to 40 miniature cars in front arranged into four lines]
:One giant car pulled by 40 tiny ones

:[The road is bisected by a large river taking up about half of its original area, with a dock and rowboat attatched to the lower shore. 50 people, 30 goats, 20 cabbages, and 10 wolves are in groups on the same side]
:50 people with 30 goats, 20 cabbages, and 10 wolves.

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Hamster Ball]]
[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Food]]
[[Category:Logic]]

Talk:2654: Chemtrails

2022-08-04T17:57:25Z

172.70.210.145: Response

Ants navigate by following trails of chemicals on the ground, so it is ''technically'' a correct description, but also lumps ant navigation entomologists with conspiracy nuts.--[[User:NyanSequitur|NyanSequitur]] ([[User talk:NyanSequitur|talk]]) 16:01, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
:The point is that scientists don't call these trails "chemtrails". Cueball has made that mistaken link. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 16:05, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
I must say that the title-text made me laugh out loud the most. (Also, though I'm sure there's no direct or even impliable link, made me fondly recall Aunt Hillary in {{w|Gödel, Escher, Bach}}, where she does not control or particularly care for her ants and they don't pull ''her'' strings in any way that they 'care' about.) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.250|162.158.158.250]] 16:26, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
:But doesn't the queen spread pheromones that control the whole population, and she is not outside thus not affected by the trails left by her workers. So it is not actually so with ants, wasps, bees and termites that they are actually mind controlled by chemicals released by their government? If I'm right the title text is completely wrong on all levels. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 07:33, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
::Obviously the queen can't be directly affected by signals left outside the nest, but equally, workers outside the nest can't be affected by signals from the queen (except inasmuch as they are mediated by other members of the colony). And the queen's behaviour can be modulated by pheromones released inside the nest - such as increasing or decreasing fertility, or changing the pheromones she releases in response. Ultimately, the queen, like any other ant, can only influence the behaviour of those around her, and only does so in response to signals she herself receives - not in some kind of command control, dictatorial way. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.5|172.70.85.5]] 09:07, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Can't quite remember which, but I think there was another comic formatted like this. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.254.165|172.70.254.165]] 17:46, 3 August 2022 (UTC)Nafedalbi
:It was [[2036:_Edgelord|2036, the one about graph theory Ph.Ds]]. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.178.103|172.70.178.103]] 18:00, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Does the caption have any relation to [[2609:_Entwives]]? I came to this explainxkcd page after reading the comic because I am not familiar with the word "entomologists". I hope somebody who knows the word can add a paragraph about the caption. --[[User:Batterystaple|Batterystaple]] ([[User talk:Batterystaple|talk]]) 07:30, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
:No, as you can see from the explanation entomologists is one who study insects and this word has been used before in xkcd for that meaning. Nothing to do with Ents. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 07:34, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Do we need new categories for ants and for chemtrails? I found three other with chemtrails, added to the explanation and I think there is a bunch of ants comics. Added one with an ant researcher as here. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 07:33, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Regarding [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2654:_Chemtrails&diff=291978&oldid=291977], there's no need for a trivia section, just put those four links in otherwise empty squarebrackets after the first sentence of that paragraph. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.88|172.70.211.88]] 11:21, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

"Whether ant-gland secretion signalling is Turing-equivalent was explored in Douglas Hofstadter's Gödel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid" and the Placebo video are trivia, but reasons explaining why the term may be annoying are speculation. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.223|172.69.33.223]] 11:37, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, there are three (possibly four) separate editorships that have tried to impose changes to the article in parallel, more or less. Individually quite sensible (I don't agree completely with all of them, but we're no hive-mind so of course I needn't!) but has created a strange flurry of upheavel. I'm certainly not fighting all my own hills. - Though note that I particularly dislike inexplicable bare-[]ed references in this context, especially if it results in <nowiki>[11][12][13][14]</nowiki> type reflinks interupting the flow. I'd rather like to make context-labelled inline links, as part of a proper sentence, for as many holdovers as we can anong those we end up with. But later, maybe. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.5|172.70.85.5]] 12:10, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
: Those [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2654:_Chemtrails&diff=291979&oldid=291978 trivial and speculative links to ant navigation] sources were silly. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 12:32, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
:: I thought so at first, but someone seemed determined that they'd return (from my excisement) so I did the Trivia thing on their behalf, which yet another person decided was a Speculation and then I observed a full-on-battle between multiple editorships. I'm not sure your removal (I assume, without yet checking you're referencing what I think you are) will stay removed. But not by my hand.
:: Incidentally: a number of times I see "grammar" as an edit summary when it's just a [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2654:_Chemtrails&oldid=292013 rephrasing between two different perfectly valid grammatical forms] (<- just the latest example of many, over the years, not at all picking on that as the 'worst'). Acceptable change, but wrong reasoning. Just sayin'... Not batting for either side on these debates, but can't help being a spectator. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.13|172.70.85.13]] 12:42, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

I want to discuss this, which I just removed from the Trivia section: "Chemical signalling for mind control is depicted in the ant-technology interaction speculative fiction-themed rock music video by the band ''Placebo'' entitled [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fISvc-yUU1A "Infrared."]" While the video is on-topic because it shows a technocratic, plutocratic, or oligarchical conspiracy being toppled by ants, does it depict any chemical signalling? There is a chemical ligand shown at one point, but is that part of a signalling process, an epigenetic effect (the ligand is shown attached to nucleic acid), some other physiological process such as a pharmaceutical study, or just an analytical study unrelated to the wealthy conspirators' propaganda efforts, which are shown as primarily electronic? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.185|172.70.214.185]] 12:43, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
:Yes, seemed a stretch of logic to me, just from the link description. Was going to view it – in case it was a Rick Roll or something – but others seemed to confirm it at least wasn't that as it got shuffled around in and out of various contexts. Shall I just say that it's potentially interesting but probably not requisite to understanding the comic, with so much more obvious Explanation stuff. I'm sure I'll enjoy watching it later. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.78|172.70.91.78]] 12:50, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
:: I put it back in its most recent form with a comment about this discussion. It's certainly on topic, but it's not necessarily about chemical signalling. Watch it with captions on mute if you find hard eurochem glam rock annoying. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.9|172.69.33.9]] 12:59, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
::: I restored the speculative trivia links, and removed the tentative comment. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.145|172.70.210.145]] 17:57, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

2654: Chemtrails

2022-08-04T12:24:42Z

172.70.210.145: /* Explanation */ grammar

{{comic
| number = 2654
| date = August 3, 2022
| title = Chemtrails
| image = chemtrails.png
| titletext = Ants have reverse chemtrails--regular citizens spraying chemicals everywhere they go to control the government.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by an INKJET PRINTER FILLED WITH PERFUME. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

{{w|Ant}}s, studied along with other insects by {{w|entomologist}}s, leave trails of signalling secretions such as {{w|pheromones}}, natural chemicals that they emit along the trail to and from food sources and other events. These chemical trails guide other ants in the colony to return to food, but are only informally refered to as chemtrails by biologists.

[[Cueball]] is intentionally conflating these with {{w|chemtrails}}, the subject of a conspiracy theory that the government controls the population by spraying toxic or mind-/body-transformative chemicals from high-flying aircraft. This myth may be partly based on the practice of {{w|cloud seeding}}, which uses chemical flares containing silver nitrate to attempt to increase precipitation,[https://www.vox.com/videos/23290459/cloud-seeding-manmade-rain-future-perfect] on studies of chemical mind control among ants,[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022191016301640] or both. Despite [[1677: Contrails|occasional conflation]], this is unrelated to "contrails," short for "condensation trails," which are cloud-like lines in the sky created by jet engines. Such linear cloud-formations only sometimes arise from temperature and pressure disturbances of the passing engines rather than any deliberate release, but are highly visible in the right conditions under flightpaths, and may have the appearance of "spraying" action. {{w|Nucleation#Examples of the nucleation of fluids (gases and liquids)|Vapor nucleation}} is central to both cloud seeding and contrails.

Chemical manipulation of unwitting people is not uncommon, as general mood-enhancing effects in specific locations,[https://www.businessnewsdaily.com/3469-smells-shoppers-spend-more.html] and doesn't involve high-altitude airplanes. There is very little evidence that sophisticated mind control posited by chemtrail conspiracists is possible, even after extensive research.[https://www.google.com/books/edition/Poisoner_in_Chief/U6iDDwAAQBAJ]

[[Ponytail]] studies chemically-mediated cooperative ant navigation. [[Cueball]] knows she will be annoyed when he tells her, "So, I hear you're really into chemtrails?" Indeed, he gets the reaction he hoped for when she objects strongly and rejects this with a loud, "'''No!!'''" The choice of terminology is often a sore spot for those who study a particular field in depth, for example that which occurs in discussions of "slave-making" in socially parasitic species.[https://evolve.community.uaf.edu/2015/04/23/emantcipation-when-captured-ants-rise-against-their-captors/] [[Randall]] writes in the caption that this sort of misuse is how to annoy people like Ponytail.

The title text contrasts individual ants instinctively deciding how the whole colony behaves by using chemicals to indicate routes to food or dangers to motivate the colony to react to their individual experiences, with the human fear of loss of personal independence by being regulated by otherwise disconnected ruling elites.

Ants are a recurring theme, as are those who study them. See for instance [[1610: Fire Ants]]. Chemtrails was also the subject of [[966: Jet Fuel]], [[1677: Contrails]], and were mentioned in [[1803: Location Reviews]]. This comic has a similar format to [[2036: Edgelord]]: a simple one-panel interaction consisting of a (likely deliberate) misuse of a term in regards to a professional's work, followed immediately by the professional's upset outburst, and Randall's caption spelling out "How to annoy" the professional. Both of these seems to be related to Randall's [[:Category:My Hobby|hobbies]], as this is something he seems to think about a lot — how to annoy specific groups of people, which is necessary information for minimizing overall annoyance production.{{cn}}

===Speculation===

Ponytail could be a professional entomologist who once worked with an editor who inserted the word "chemtrails" in one of her [https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00359-019-01363-z comparative physiology] or [https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10071-020-01354-7 ''Animal Cognition''] drafts competing before a peer review panel with papers by [https://bio.kuleuven.be/ento/pdfs/billen_procnev_2006_signal_variety.pdf Johan Bilen] of the Leuven University Zoological Institute and Harvard's [https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674045880 Rüdiger Wehner].

==Transcript==

:[Cueball stands talking to Ponytail, who has her arms raised and has small lines above her head to indicate annoyance.]
:Cueball: So, I hear you're really into chemtrails?
:Ponytail: '''''No!!'''''

:[Caption below the panel:]
:How to annoy entomologists who study ant navigation

==Trivia==

Chemical signalling for mind control is depicted in the ant-technology interaction speculative fiction-themed rock music video by the band ''Placebo'' entitled [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fISvc-yUU1A "Infrared."]

Whether ant gland secretion signalling is {{w|Turing completeness|Turing-equivalent}} was explored in Douglas Hofstadter's ''{{w|Gödel, Escher, Bach|Gödel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid}}''.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Biology]]
[[Category:Puns]]
[[Category:Conspiracy theory]]

2654: Chemtrails

2022-08-04T12:22:52Z

172.70.210.145: /* Explanation */ rescue good link from bad prose

{{comic
| number = 2654
| date = August 3, 2022
| title = Chemtrails
| image = chemtrails.png
| titletext = Ants have reverse chemtrails--regular citizens spraying chemicals everywhere they go to control the government.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by an INKJET PRINTER FILLED WITH PERFUME. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

{{w|Ant}}s, studied along with other insects by {{w|entomologist}}s, leave trails of signalling secretions such as {{w|pheromones}}, natural chemicals that they emit along the trail to and from food sources and other events. These chemical trails guide other ants in the colony to return to food, but are only informally refered to as chemtrails by biologists.

[[Cueball]] is intentionally conflating these with {{w|chemtrails}}, the subject of a conspiracy theory that the government controls the population by spraying toxic or mind-/body-transformative chemicals from high-flying aircraft. This myth may be partly based on the practice of {{w|cloud seeding}}, which uses chemical flares containing silver nitrate to attempt to increase precipitation,[https://www.vox.com/videos/23290459/cloud-seeding-manmade-rain-future-perfect] on studies of chemical mind control among ants,[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022191016301640] or both. Despite [[1677: Contrails|occasional conflation]], this is unrelated to "contrails," short for "condensation trails," which are cloud-like lines in the sky created by jet engines. Such linear cloud-formations only sometimes arise from temperature and pressure disturbances of the passing engines rather than any deliberate release, but are highly visible in the right conditions under flightpaths, and may have the appearance of "spraying" action. {{w|Nucleation#Examples of the nucleation of fluids (gases and liquids)|Vapor nucleation}} is central to both cloud seeding and contrails.

Chemical manipulation of unwitting people is not uncommon, as general mood-enhancing effects in specific locations,[https://www.businessnewsdaily.com/3469-smells-shoppers-spend-more.html] and doesn't involve high-altitude airplanes. There is very little evidence that sophisticated mind control posited by chemtrail conspiracists is possible, even after extensive research.[https://www.google.com/books/edition/Poisoner_in_Chief/U6iDDwAAQBAJ]

[[Ponytail]] studies chemically-mediated cooperative ant navigation. [[Cueball]] knows she will be annoyed when he tells her, "So, I hear you're really into chemtrails?" Indeed, he gets the reaction he hoped for when she objects strongly and rejects this with a loud, "'''No!!'''" The choice of terminology is often a sore spot for those who study a particular field in depth, for example that which occurs in discussions of "slave-making" socially parasitic species.[https://evolve.community.uaf.edu/2015/04/23/emantcipation-when-captured-ants-rise-against-their-captors/] [[Randall]] writes in the caption that this sort of misuse is how to annoy people like Ponytail.

The title text contrasts individual ants instinctively deciding how the whole colony behaves by using chemicals to indicate routes to food or dangers to motivate the colony to react to their individual experiences, with the human fear of loss of personal independence by being regulated by otherwise disconnected ruling elites.

Ants are a recurring theme, as are those who study them. See for instance [[1610: Fire Ants]]. Chemtrails was also the subject of [[966: Jet Fuel]], [[1677: Contrails]], and were mentioned in [[1803: Location Reviews]]. This comic has a similar format to [[2036: Edgelord]]: a simple one-panel interaction consisting of a (likely deliberate) misuse of a term in regards to a professional's work, followed immediately by the professional's upset outburst, and Randall's caption spelling out "How to annoy" the professional. Both of these seems to be related to Randall's [[:Category:My Hobby|hobbies]], as this is something he seems to think about a lot — how to annoy specific groups of people, which is necessary information for minimizing overall annoyance production.{{cn}}

===Speculation===

Ponytail could be a professional entomologist who once worked with an editor who inserted the word "chemtrails" in one of her [https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00359-019-01363-z comparative physiology] or [https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10071-020-01354-7 ''Animal Cognition''] drafts competing before a peer review panel with papers by [https://bio.kuleuven.be/ento/pdfs/billen_procnev_2006_signal_variety.pdf Johan Bilen] of the Leuven University Zoological Institute and Harvard's [https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674045880 Rüdiger Wehner].

==Transcript==

:[Cueball stands talking to Ponytail, who has her arms raised and has small lines above her head to indicate annoyance.]
:Cueball: So, I hear you're really into chemtrails?
:Ponytail: '''''No!!'''''

:[Caption below the panel:]
:How to annoy entomologists who study ant navigation

==Trivia==

Chemical signalling for mind control is depicted in the ant-technology interaction speculative fiction-themed rock music video by the band ''Placebo'' entitled [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fISvc-yUU1A "Infrared."]

Whether ant gland secretion signalling is {{w|Turing completeness|Turing-equivalent}} was explored in Douglas Hofstadter's ''{{w|Gödel, Escher, Bach|Gödel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid}}''.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Biology]]
[[Category:Puns]]
[[Category:Conspiracy theory]]

2654: Chemtrails

2022-08-04T11:14:13Z

172.70.210.145: /* Explanation */ copyedit

{{comic
| number = 2654
| date = August 3, 2022
| title = Chemtrails
| image = chemtrails.png
| titletext = Ants have reverse chemtrails--regular citizens spraying chemicals everywhere they go to control the government.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by an INKJET PRINTER FILLED WITH PERFUME. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

{{w|Ant}}s, studied along with other insects by {{w|entomologist}}s, leave trails of signalling secretions such as {{w|pheromones}}, natural chemicals that they emit along the trail to and from food sources and other events. These chemical trails guide other ants in the colony to return to food, but are not generally refered to as chemtrails by biologists except informally.

[[Cueball]] is intentionally conflating these with {{w|chemtrails}}, the subject of a conspiracy theory that the government controls the population by spraying toxic or mind-/body-transformative chemicals from high-flying aircraft. This myth may be partly based on the practice of {{w|cloud seeding}}, which uses chemical flares containing silver nitrate to attempt to increase precipitation,[https://www.vox.com/videos/23290459/cloud-seeding-manmade-rain-future-perfect] on studies of chemical mind control among ants,[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022191016301640] or both. Despite [[1677: Contrails|occasional conflation]], this is unrelated to "contrails", short for "condensation trails", which are cloud-like lines in the sky created by jet engines. Such linear cloud-formations arise from temperature and pressure disturbances of the passing engines rather than any deliberate release, but are highly visible in the right conditions to those who live under flightpaths, and may have the appearance of some active "spraying" action. Chemical manipulation of unwitting people is not uncommon, but is more a general mood-enhancing effect that works within a specific location[https://www.businessnewsdaily.com/3469-smells-shoppers-spend-more.html] and doesn't involve high-altitude airplanes. There is very little evidence that sophisticated mind control posited by chemtrail conspiracists is possible, even after extensive research.[https://www.google.com/books/edition/Poisoner_in_Chief/U6iDDwAAQBAJ]

[[Ponytail]] specifically studies ant navigation, conceivably as a professional entomologist who once worked with an editor who inserted the word "chemtrails" in one of her [https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00359-019-01363-z comparative physiology] or [https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10071-020-01354-7 ''Animal Cognition''] drafts competing before a peer review panel with papers by [https://bio.kuleuven.be/ento/pdfs/billen_procnev_2006_signal_variety.pdf Johan Bilen] of the Leuven University Zoological Institute and Harvard's [https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674045880 Rüdiger Wehner]. [[Cueball]] knows she will be annoyed when he tells her, "So, I hear you're really into chemtrails?" Indeed, he gets the reaction he hoped for when she objects strongly and rejects this with a loud, "'''No!!'''" Terminology is often a sore spot for those who study "slave-making" socially parasitic species.[https://evolve.community.uaf.edu/2015/04/23/emantcipation-when-captured-ants-rise-against-their-captors/] [[Randall]] writes in the caption that this is how to annoy people like Ponytail. Whether ant gland secretion signalling is {{w|Turing completeness|Turing-equivalent}} was explored in Douglas Hofstadter's ''{{w|Gödel, Escher, Bach|Gödel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid}}''.

The title text contrasts individual ants instinctively deciding how the whole colony behaves by using chemicals to indicate routes to food or dangers to motivate the colony to react to their individual experiences, with the human fear of loss of personal independence by being regulated by otherwise disconnected ruling elites, as depicted in the ant-technology interaction speculative fiction-themed rock music video by the band ''Placebo'' entitled [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fISvc-yUU1A "Infrared."]

Ants are a recurring theme, as are those who study them. See for instance [[1610: Fire Ants]]. Chemtrails was also the subject of [[966: Jet Fuel]], [[1677: Contrails]], and were mentioned in [[1803: Location Reviews]]. This comic has a similar format to [[2036: Edgelord]]: a simple one-panel interaction consisting of a (likely deliberate) misuse of a term in regards to a professional's work, followed immediately by the professional's upset outburst, and Randall's caption spelling out "How to annoy" the professional. Both of these seems to be related to Randall's [[:Category:My Hobby|hobbies]], as this is something he seems to think about a lot — how to annoy specific groups of people, which is necessary information for minimizing overall annoyance production.{{cn}}

==Transcript==
:[Cueball stands talking to Ponytail, who has her arms raised and has small lines above her head to indicate annoyance.]
:Cueball: So, I hear you're really into chemtrails?
:Ponytail: '''''No!!'''''

:[Caption below the panel:]
:How to annoy entomologists who study ant navigation

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Biology]]
[[Category:Puns]]
[[Category:Conspiracy theory]]

2654: Chemtrails

2022-08-04T11:12:53Z

172.70.210.145: /* Explanation */ sure

{{comic
| number = 2654
| date = August 3, 2022
| title = Chemtrails
| image = chemtrails.png
| titletext = Ants have reverse chemtrails--regular citizens spraying chemicals everywhere they go to control the government.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by an INKJET PRINTER FILLED WITH PERFUME. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

{{w|Ant}}s, studied along with other insects by {{w|entomologist}}s, leave trails of signalling secretions such as {{w|pheromones}}, natural chemicals that they emit along the trail to and from food sources and other events. These chemical trails guide other ants in the colony to return to food, but are not generally refered to as chemtrails by biologists except informally.

[[Cueball]] is intentionally conflating these with {{w|chemtrails}}, the subject of a conspiracy theory that the government controls the population by spraying toxic or mind-/body-transformative chemicals from high-flying aircraft. This myth may be partly based on the practice of {{w|cloud seeding}}, which uses chemical flares containing silver nitrate to attempt to increase precipitation,[https://www.vox.com/videos/23290459/cloud-seeding-manmade-rain-future-perfect] on studies of chemical mind control among ants,[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022191016301640] or both. Despite [[1677: Contrails|occasional conflation]], this is unrelated to "contrails", short for "condensation trails", which are cloud-like lines in the sky created by jet engines. Such linear cloud-formations arise from temperature and pressure disturbances of the passing engines rather than any deliberate release, but are highly visible (in the right cloud-free conditions that produce otherwise clear skies) to those who live under busy flightpaths, and may have the outwards appearance of some active "spraying" action.

Chemical manipulation of unwitting people is not uncommon, but is more a general mood-enhancing effect that works within a specific location[https://www.businessnewsdaily.com/3469-smells-shoppers-spend-more.html] and doesn't involve high-altitude airplanes. There is very little evidence that sophisticated mind control posited by chemtrail conspiracists is possible, even after extensive research.[https://www.google.com/books/edition/Poisoner_in_Chief/U6iDDwAAQBAJ]

[[Ponytail]] specifically studies ant navigation, conceivably as a professional entomologist who once worked with an editor who inserted the word "chemtrails" in one of her [https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00359-019-01363-z comparative physiology] or [https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10071-020-01354-7 ''Animal Cognition''] drafts competing before a peer review panel with papers by [https://bio.kuleuven.be/ento/pdfs/billen_procnev_2006_signal_variety.pdf Johan Bilen] of the Leuven University Zoological Institute and Harvard's [https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674045880 Rüdiger Wehner]. [[Cueball]] knows she will be annoyed when he tells her, "So, I hear you're really into chemtrails?" Indeed, he gets the reaction he hoped for when she objects strongly and rejects this with a loud, "'''No!!'''" Terminology is often a sore spot for those who study "slave-making" socially parasitic species.[https://evolve.community.uaf.edu/2015/04/23/emantcipation-when-captured-ants-rise-against-their-captors/] [[Randall]] writes in the caption that this is how to annoy people like Ponytail. Whether ant gland secretion signalling is {{w|Turing completeness|Turing-equivalent}} was explored in Douglas Hofstadter's ''{{w|Gödel, Escher, Bach|Gödel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid}}''.

The title text contrasts individual ants instinctively deciding how the whole colony behaves by using chemicals to indicate routes to food or dangers to motivate the colony to react to their individual experiences, with the human fear of loss of personal independence by being regulated by otherwise disconnected ruling elites, as depicted in the ant-technology interaction speculative fiction-themed rock music video by the band ''Placebo'' entitled [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fISvc-yUU1A "Infrared."]

Ants are a recurring theme, as are those who study them. See for instance [[1610: Fire Ants]]. Chemtrails was also the subject of [[966: Jet Fuel]], [[1677: Contrails]], and were mentioned in [[1803: Location Reviews]]. This comic has a similar format to [[2036: Edgelord]]: a simple one-panel interaction consisting of a (likely deliberate) misuse of a term in regards to a professional's work, followed immediately by the professional's upset outburst, and Randall's caption spelling out "How to annoy" the professional. Both of these seems to be related to Randall's [[:Category:My Hobby|hobbies]], as this is something he seems to think about a lot — how to annoy specific groups of people, which is necessary information for minimizing overall annoyance production.{{cn}}

==Transcript==
:[Cueball stands talking to Ponytail, who has her arms raised and has small lines above her head to indicate annoyance.]
:Cueball: So, I hear you're really into chemtrails?
:Ponytail: '''''No!!'''''

:[Caption below the panel:]
:How to annoy entomologists who study ant navigation

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Biology]]
[[Category:Puns]]
[[Category:Conspiracy theory]]

2654: Chemtrails

2022-08-04T10:06:40Z

172.70.210.145: /* Explanation */ copyedit

{{comic
| number = 2654
| date = August 3, 2022
| title = Chemtrails
| image = chemtrails.png
| titletext = Ants have reverse chemtrails--regular citizens spraying chemicals everywhere they go to control the government.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by an INKJET PRINTER FILLED WITH PERFUME. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

{{w|Ant}}s, studied along with other insects by {{w|entomologist}}s, leave trails of signalling secretions such as {{w|pheromones}}, natural chemicals that they emit along the trail to and from food sources and other events. These chemical trails guide other ants in the colony to return to food, but are not generally refered to as chemtrails by biologists except informally.

[[Cueball]] is intentionally conflating these with {{w|chemtrails}}, the subject of a conspiracy theory that the government controls the population by spraying toxic or mind-/body-transformative chemicals from high-flying aircraft. This myth may be based on the practice of {{w|cloud seeding}}, which uses chemical flares containing silver nitrate to increase precipitation up to 15%.[https://www.vox.com/videos/23290459/cloud-seeding-manmade-rain-future-perfect] Chemical manipulation of unwitting people is not uncommon, but usually doesn't involve airplanes.[https://www.businessnewsdaily.com/3469-smells-shoppers-spend-more.html] Please see also [[1677: Contrails]] — contrail is short for "condensation trail" which are cloud-like lines in the sky created by jet engines.

[[Ponytail]] specifically studies ant navigation, possibly as a professional entomologist who once worked with an editor who inserted the word "chemtrails" in one of her drafts entitled, "Navigation by trail gland secretion signalling: vocabulary and grammar," which unbeknownst to her at the time was competing before a peer review panel with another paper by a male rival such as [https://bio.kuleuven.be/ento/pdfs/billen_procnev_2006_signal_variety.pdf Johan Bilen] of the Leuven University Zoological Institute. [[Cueball]] knows she will be annoyed when he tells her "So, I hear you're really into chemtrails?" And he gets the reaction he hoped for when she objects strongly and rejects this with a loud '''No!!''' [[Randall]] then notes in the caption that this is how to annoy people like Ponytail. Whether ant gland secretion signalling is {{w|Turing completeness|Turing-equivalent}} was explored in Douglas Hofstadter's ''{{w|Gödel, Escher, Bach|Gödel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid}}''.

The title text contrasts individual ants instinctively deciding how the whole colony behaves by using chemicals to indicate routes to food or dangers to motivate the colony to react to their individual experiences, with the human fear of loss of personal independence by being regulated by otherwise disconnected ruling elites, as depicted in the ant-technology interaction speculative fiction-themed rock music video by the band ''Placebo'' entitled [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fISvc-yUU1A "Infrared."]

Ants are a recurring theme, as are those who study them. See for instance [[1610: Fire Ants]]. Chemtrails was also the subject of [[966: Jet Fuel]] and [[1677: Contrails]] and was mentioned in [[1803: Location Reviews]]. This comic has a similar format to [[2036: Edgelord]]: a simple one-panel interaction consisting of a (likely deliberate) misuse of a term in regards to a professional's work, followed immediately by the professional's upset outburst, and Randall's caption spelling out "How to annoy" the professional. Both of these seems to be related to Randall's [[:Category:My Hobby|hobbies]], as this is something he seems to think about a lot — how to annoy specific groups of people, which is necessary information for minimizing overall annoyance production.{{cn}}

==Transcript==
:[Cueball stands talking to Ponytail, who has her arms raised and has small lines above her head to indicate annoyance.]
:Cueball: So, I hear you're really into chemtrails?
:Ponytail: '''''No!!'''''

:[Caption below the panel:]
:How to annoy entomologists who study ant navigation

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Biology]]
[[Category:Puns]]
[[Category:Conspiracy theory]]

2654: Chemtrails

2022-08-04T09:04:09Z

172.70.210.145: /* Explanation */ traditional theory popular treatment

{{comic
| number = 2654
| date = August 3, 2022
| title = Chemtrails
| image = chemtrails.png
| titletext = Ants have reverse chemtrails--regular citizens spraying chemicals everywhere they go to control the government.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by an INKJET PRINTER FILLED WITH PERFUME. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

{{w|Ant}}s, studied along with other insects by {{w|entomologist}}s, leave trails of signalling secretions such as {{w|pheromones}}, natural chemicals that they emit along the trail to and from food sources and other events. These chemical trails guide other ants in the colony to return to food, but are not generally refered to as chemtrails by biologists except informally.

[[Cueball]] is intentionally conflating these with {{w|chemtrails}}, the subject of a conspiracy theory that the government controls the population by spraying toxic or mind-/body-transformative chemicals from high-flying aircraft. This myth may be based on the practice of {{w|cloud seeding}}, which uses chemical flares containing silver nitrate to increase precipitation up to 15%.[https://www.vox.com/videos/23290459/cloud-seeding-manmade-rain-future-perfect] Chemical manipulation of unwitting people is not uncommon, but usually doesn't involve airplanes.[https://www.businessnewsdaily.com/3469-smells-shoppers-spend-more.html] Please see also [[1677: Contrails]] — contrail is short for "condensation trail" which are cloud-like lines in the sky created by jet engines.

[[Ponytail]] specifically studies ant navigation, possibly as a professional entomologist who once worked with an editor who inserted the word "chemtrails" in one of her drafts entitled, "Navigation by trail gland secretion signalling: vocabulary and grammar," which unbeknownst to her at the time was competing before a peer review panel with another paper by a male rival such as [https://bio.kuleuven.be/ento/pdfs/billen_procnev_2006_signal_variety.pdf Johan Bilen] of the Leuven University Zoological Institute. [[Cueball]] knows she will be annoyed when he tells her "So, I hear you're really into chemtrails?" And he gets the reaction he hoped for when she objects strongly and rejects this with a loud '''No!!''' [[Randall]] then notes in the caption that this is how to annoy people like Ponytail. Whether ant gland secretion signalling is {{w|Turing equivalence|Turing-equivalent}} was explored inn Douglas Hofstadter's ''{{w|Gödel, Escher, Bach: an eternal golden braid}}''.

The title text contrasts that with the actual ants, where the individual insects instinctively decide how the whole colony behaves by using chemicals to indicate routes to food or dangers to motivate the colony to react to their individual experiences, the reverse of the human fear about personal independence being regulated by an otherwise disconnected ruling 'elite'.

Ants is a recurring theme, as well as those that study them, see for instance [[1610: Fire Ants]]. Chemtrails was also the subject of [[966: Jet Fuel]] and [[1677: Contrails]] and was mentioned in [[1803: Location Reviews]]. This comic has a similar format to [[2036: Edgelord]]: a simple one-panel interaction consisting of a (likely deliberate) misuse of a term in regards to a professional's work, followed immediately by the professional's upset outburst, and Randall's caption spelling out "How to annoy" the professional. Both of these seems to be related to Randall's [[:Category:My Hobby|hobbies]], as this is something he seems to think about a lot — how to annoy specific people.

==Transcript==
:[Cueball stands talking to Ponytail, who has her arms raised and has small lines above her head to indicate annoyance.]
:Cueball: So, I hear you're really into chemtrails?
:Ponytail: '''''No!!'''''

:[Caption below the panel:]
:How to annoy entomologists who study ant navigation

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Biology]]
[[Category:Puns]]
[[Category:Conspiracy theory]]

2654: Chemtrails

2022-08-04T08:59:12Z

172.70.210.145: /* Explanation */ explain joke

2654: Chemtrails

2022-08-04T08:22:32Z

172.70.210.145: /* Transcript */ cat

2653: Omnitaur

2022-08-03T03:20:41Z

172.70.210.145: /* Explanation */ paragraph

{{comic
| number = 2653
| date = August 1, 2022
| title = Omnitaur
| image = omnitaur.png
| titletext = "My parents were both omnitaurs, which is how I got interested in recombination," said the normal human.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by A CAPRIHIPPOLEOPISCITAUR TRAPPED IN A ZYGOTE'S BODY. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

Omnitaur is an {{w|anagram}} of {{w|minotaur}}, a mythical creature that was part man, part bull. "{{wiktionary|omni}}" is a prefix that means "all" that is, for instance, known from the word {{w|omnivore}}, meaning 'all eating' as compared to {{w|carnivore}} or {{w|herbivore}} — only eating meat or plant respectively. Given the combination of animals used to create the omnitaur, it could be expected that it was also an omnivore. "-Taur" often means "bull," but bit also appears in "{{w|centaur}}" via Latin from Greek ''kentauros,'' the name for a Thessalonian tribe of expert horsemen, meaning a different mythical creature which has the upper body of a human and the lower body and legs of a horse. Thus Randall is taking "-taur" to mean any creature made up of parts of different animals.

An "omnitaur" would suggest that it would encompass all real and mythical creatures, or perhaps some random assortment of such. In this instance, it appears to be a hybrid, or {{w|Chimera (genetics)|genetic chimera}}, combined from eleven different creatures: {{w|fish}}, {{w|lion}}, {{w|snake}}, {{w|shark}}, {{w|bull}}, {{w|dragon}} (a mythical and often chimeric creature in its own right), {{w|horse}}, {{w|leopard}}, {{w|Sheep|ram}} (male sheep), {{w|human}} and {{w|bird}}. Chimerism is not as uncommon at the genetic level, for example humans have about 145 genes (out of around 30,000) originating from bacteria, other single-celled organisms, and viruses.[https://www.science.org/content/article/humans-may-harbor-more-100-genes-other-organisms] {{w|Mitochondria}}, the powerhouse of the cell, were originally chimeric bacteria {{w|symbiosis|symbionts}}. But chimeras of larger organisms are rare, usually involving fraternal twins whose {{w|zygote}}s or {{w|embryo}}s combined, as in {{w|conjoined twins}} but resulting in less distinct {{w|phenotype|phenotypical}} expression. Artificial human chimeras with viruses, mice, pigs, and monkeys have been the subject of ethics controversies in recent years.[https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/aug/11/the-five-chimeras-human-monkey-hybrid-genetic][https://jme.bmj.com/content/45/7/440.abstract] [https://journals.biologists.com/dev/article/148/12/dev195792/269139/The-road-to-generating-transplantable-organs-from Interspecies blastocyst complementation,] used to create human chimera organs and cell lines in other animals, is usually limited to combining two organisms into one whose offspring are not hybridized if they are even viable, and usually without human germlines or reproductive organs (or human central nervous systems, assuaging a major ethical concern.)

The title text is a comment by a human whose parents were both omnitaurs. It would be funny that such parents would not produce offspring that was still omnitaur. It suggests that this may be the result of {{w|genetic recombination}}, which is the exchange of genetic material between different organisms leading to production of offspring with combinations of traits that differ from those found in either parent. In this case, seemingly, they inherited ''only'' the human elements of each parent, yet sufficient to develop into a whole human with no missing or chimeric elements. Both omnitaur parents likely had human germlines and compatible reproductive organs. Since the example depicted seems to be only 1/11 human, the odds of two parents as mentioned in the title text having fully human offspring would simplistically appear to be (1/11)11, or one chance in 285 billion. In reality, each physical part could not be the result of an equal recombinant genetic contribution, because the eleven animal chromosomes vary widely in number and size. Moreover, chimeras composed of multiple animals do not have chimeric children, because even with multiple sets of reproductive organs, the {{w|germline}}s are not combined.

===Phenotypical chimeras in folklore===

In addition to the minotaur and centaur, many other potential inspirations can be found in mythology, like the {{w|manticore}}, with a body of a lion and human face; a {{w|griffin}}, with a lion's body and a eagle's head; a {{w|mermaid}}, with a lower body of a fish and upper body of a human; a {{w|Hippocampus (mythology)|hippocampus}}, with the upper body of a horse and a lower body of a fish; a {{w|qilin}}, with a body that resembles both a horse and a dragon; or the mythological {{w|chimera (mythology)|chimera}}, for which the genetic chimera is named, which has lion, snake, and goat body parts. Ultimately, there are {{w|List of hybrid creatures in folklore|lots of hybrid creatures in mythology}} with {{w|phenotype}}s combined from multiple animals. Usually, genetic hybridization produces much more smoothly blended phenotypes instead of dividing the body into large distinctly chimeric regions, although {{w|Mosaic (genetics)|mosaicism}} of fur, skin or {{w|Heterochromia iridum|eyes}} can produce notable differences of hue or shade.

In {{w|C. S. Lewis}}' {{w|The Chronicles of Narnia}}, the {{w|Magical_creatures_in_The_Chronicles_of_Narnia#Centaurs|centaurs}} are described as eating two meals — a huge roast meal "to satisfy the man stomach," and a meal of grass, "to satisfy the horse stomach," making it take quite some time for them to eat every morning. Since the omnitaur also has herbivore and omnivore (as well as carnivore) parts, this could further support the supposition that it is an omnivore, and it may similarly need multiple stomachs for these multiple appetites. It is unclear how compatible the various diets of its components would be (not least because 'fish,' 'snake' and 'bird' are quite unspecific, and it's hard to know what a dragon would eat) but it would likely need several meals, taking even longer to eat than the Centaur (plus the bird beak may slow the process down quite a bit.) In any case, a chimera of both warm and cold-blooded organisms seems unlikely to be viable, even at the organ level, let alone with combined surface phenotypes.

The Chimera monster in {{w|Dungeons and Dragons}} is a "vile combination of goat, lion, and dragon, and features the heads of all three,"[https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/16823-chimera] with similar depictions being common across fantasy media. The Aztec god {{w|Quetzalcoatl}} ("the feathered serpent") inspired the {{w|Discworld}} god/demon Quezovercoatl ("the {{w|Boa (clothing accessory)|feathered boa}}") ...being an analogue and mish-mash of various South American cultural and wildlife totems and described more fully as "as half-man, half-chicken, half-jaguar, half-serpent, half-scorpion and half-mad (a total of three homicidal maniacs)" with the small disadvantage of manifesting as only six inches high and being stepped on.

While chimeras occur in fantasy fiction, they also occur in science fiction, for example as {{w|cyborg}}s. The famous ''{{w|The Restaurant at the End of the Universe}}'' sequel to Douglas Adams' ''The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy'', had a pig-like "Ameglian Major Cow" seemingly with the mind and vocal tract of a human so it could articulate how much it wanted to be eaten.

==Transcript==
:[A creature, the Omnitaur, is shown. It is a four legged animal divided into 11 segments, each segment is from a different animal. An arrow goes to each section from a label, most of the labels are above the animal, but the fourth and seventh segments labels are below the animal. The animal has a fish tail and cat like hind legs. The torso is divided into four segments, the first and last of these with scales, but only the last of these also with sharp scales at the top. The second torso segment is white and smooth, the third also white but with hair both above and below, those above merges with the sharp scales of the fourth torso segment. The front legs are horse like, the lower neck is from an animal with dark spots, the upper neck has rams horns, which goes over in the central part of a human head, with ears and hair (drawn like a real human, not like a xkcd stick figure) and finally the front of the face is a bird with its eyes and a beak shown. The labels are given here in the order of the segment of the animal from the back to the front (disregarding weather the label is written above or below the animal:]
:Fish
:Lion
:Snake
:Shark
:Bull
:Dragon
:Horse
:Leopard
:Ram
:Human
:Bird

:[Caption below the panel:]
:The Omnitaur

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Biology]]

Talk:2653: Omnitaur

2022-08-02T17:08:25Z

172.70.210.145: Preposition

Do people thing Omnitaur meant to be a anagram? It would make more sense to me suffix taken from minotaur and centaur etc. with the prefix omni meaning all.
[[User:Mouse|Mouse]] ([[User talk:Mouse|talk]]) Mousetail
:I don't think it is meant to be an anagram. Nevertheless it is one. But that's just my gut feeling. [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 07:07, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
::There are only those two taurs mentioned and there are many other creatures made from animals with different name. It has both human and bull in it (I know it has all the others as well), but to me it seems obvious that Randall is aware this is an anagram of Mino to Omni. And then of course it encompasses most other mythical creatures, given the meanin of Omni. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:16, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
:::True, surely he's aware of it. My point is: It's either an anagram that also happens to have the meaning "omni" or it has the meaning "omni" and also happens to be an anagram. My bet is on the latter. [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 10:42, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

I dread to think what this thing must look like internally. Especially when I remember the centaurs from C S Lewis' 'Narnia' stories, who are depicted eating two meals - a huge roast meal "to satisfy the man stomach" and a meal of grass "to satisfy the horse stomach". Bleagh.[[User:MarquisOfCarrabass|MarquisOfCarrabass]] ([[User talk:MarquisOfCarrabass|talk]]) 07:32, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
:Well it certainly is an Omnivore (does that mean eating only Omnitaurs then...? :-D ) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:16, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

If we take a looser definition of 'omnitaur' as meaning 'made of lots of different creatures' (in parallel to how 'omnivore' really means 'eats lots of different things' rather than literally 'eats everything', and in line with only 11 creatures being depicted), then arguably every creature is an omnitaur - it's just that most of them are special cases that happen to be made up of a lot of very similar creatures. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.77|172.70.162.77]] 09:15, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

1/121 seems nonsense to me. Assume this omnitaur has fairly standard genetics: 11 allele pairs for the several body parts with recessivity being random. All parts must have one human allele (which happens to be recessive), 1/11^10. The human allele must be picked, 1/2^11. More like a trillion chance... [[Special:Contributions/172.71.98.193|172.71.98.193]] 10:10, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
:I was just going to post a question: why not (1/11)11? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.43|172.70.214.43]] 10:20, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
:How on earth is that "standard"? [[User:Nitpicking|Nitpicking]] ([[User talk:Nitpicking|talk]]) 11:32, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
::Sitting in a rejected-edits file of mine (because I couldn't see how to make it good enough to escape a general nitpick... though not your presence in particular) is the following, that might have been superceded by the Speculations section that was added since:
:::''In order for two omnitaur genomes to contain the ''possibility'' of merging to create a full human, maybe the genetic material is not {{w|Ploidy#Diploid|diploid}}, but {{w|Polyploidy|undecaploid}} (at the very least), leading to each omnitaur to express their own individual and personal distribution of phenotypes from amongst the many heritable traits they have inherited. The reproductive compatibility of any two omnitaurs would be a crap-shoot and might influence what given 'monotaurism' might arise by chance.''
::...be a shame to waste it, but it doesn't really fit as is now, even if I 'correct' it. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.229.75|108.162.229.75]] 15:06, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Note: you can't call sharks "fish" without also calling humans, frogs, and eagles "fish" (if you're using the current taxonomic system based on cladistics). The cartilaginous fishes split from bony fishes long before the tetrapods like us split off from the lineage that became trout, flounder, and guppies. That is, a snake is much more closely related to a grouper than a shark is. [[User:Nitpicking|Nitpicking]] ([[User talk:Nitpicking|talk]]) 11:32, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
: [https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/california-court-ruling-bees-are-fish-bad-logic-good-humans-rcna32971 According to California courts, bees are fish.] (Spoiler: within the meaning of "Fish and Game" or something like that. Personally I think the judges were trolling because they could have more congruously gone with "game" because it was about honeybees which beekeepers obviously catch.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.95|172.70.206.95]] 13:42, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
:Fish are a paraphyletic group, but that doesn't make the group "wrong" by cladistics. Cladistics recognizes that its common for one branch of a group to go off and do something very divergent, and that the remaining members often have a lot of shared characteristics that make it useful to talk about them. For example, "stem mammals", which excludes actual mammals. Cladistics has stronger objections to polyphyly, which is grouping animals together that aren't a cladistic group with some very clear exceptions. It still recognizes the groups though, classifying them as polyphyletic groups. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.82.121|172.71.82.121]] 13:47, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
::^ This editor paraphyletizes. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.163|172.70.206.163]] 14:40, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

The speculation section needs a discussion of how living {{w|turducken}} could be engineered. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.88|172.70.211.88]] 11:44, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
:Being able to do that would be a great lab qual, but when the spacefairing dinosaurs find out we use them for the culinary arts, is there any hope for galactic peace? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.145|172.70.210.145]] 16:15, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

If HGTTG references are traditional here, ''The Restaurant at the End of the Universe'' had a pig with the mind and vocal tract of a human so it could articulate how much it wanted to be eaten. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 16:19, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

whose sona is this 🤨 --[[Special:Contributions/172.70.110.113|172.70.110.113]] 16:25, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
:Are you asking whether omnitaurs make good clerics in D&D? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.213|172.70.206.213]] 16:55, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
:: According to {{w|Sona (given name)}}, Sona is a feminine given name meaning gold or wisdom, but Google returns it as a Fortnight character. Unfortunately, we have evidence that the omnitaur could be hermaphroditic, so a full literature search may involve access to non-online resources, which I intend to enjoy. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.145|172.70.210.145]] 17:07, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Talk:2653: Omnitaur

2022-08-02T17:07:11Z

172.70.210.145: Reply

Do people thing Omnitaur meant to be a anagram? It would make more sense to me suffix taken from minotaur and centaur etc. with the prefix omni meaning all.
[[User:Mouse|Mouse]] ([[User talk:Mouse|talk]]) Mousetail
:I don't think it is meant to be an anagram. Nevertheless it is one. But that's just my gut feeling. [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 07:07, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
::There are only those two taurs mentioned and there are many other creatures made from animals with different name. It has both human and bull in it (I know it has all the others as well), but to me it seems obvious that Randall is aware this is an anagram of Mino to Omni. And then of course it encompasses most other mythical creatures, given the meanin of Omni. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:16, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
:::True, surely he's aware of it. My point is: It's either an anagram that also happens to have the meaning "omni" or it has the meaning "omni" and also happens to be an anagram. My bet is on the latter. [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 10:42, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

I dread to think what this thing must look like internally. Especially when I remember the centaurs from C S Lewis' 'Narnia' stories, who are depicted eating two meals - a huge roast meal "to satisfy the man stomach" and a meal of grass "to satisfy the horse stomach". Bleagh.[[User:MarquisOfCarrabass|MarquisOfCarrabass]] ([[User talk:MarquisOfCarrabass|talk]]) 07:32, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
:Well it certainly is an Omnivore (does that mean eating only Omnitaurs then...? :-D ) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:16, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

If we take a looser definition of 'omnitaur' as meaning 'made of lots of different creatures' (in parallel to how 'omnivore' really means 'eats lots of different things' rather than literally 'eats everything', and in line with only 11 creatures being depicted), then arguably every creature is an omnitaur - it's just that most of them are special cases that happen to be made up of a lot of very similar creatures. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.77|172.70.162.77]] 09:15, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

1/121 seems nonsense to me. Assume this omnitaur has fairly standard genetics: 11 allele pairs for the several body parts with recessivity being random. All parts must have one human allele (which happens to be recessive), 1/11^10. The human allele must be picked, 1/2^11. More like a trillion chance... [[Special:Contributions/172.71.98.193|172.71.98.193]] 10:10, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
:I was just going to post a question: why not (1/11)11? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.43|172.70.214.43]] 10:20, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
:How on earth is that "standard"? [[User:Nitpicking|Nitpicking]] ([[User talk:Nitpicking|talk]]) 11:32, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
::Sitting in a rejected-edits file of mine (because I couldn't see how to make it good enough to escape a general nitpick... though not your presence in particular) is the following, that might have been superceded by the Speculations section that was added since:
:::''In order for two omnitaur genomes to contain the ''possibility'' of merging to create a full human, maybe the genetic material is not {{w|Ploidy#Diploid|diploid}}, but {{w|Polyploidy|undecaploid}} (at the very least), leading to each omnitaur to express their own individual and personal distribution of phenotypes from amongst the many heritable traits they have inherited. The reproductive compatibility of any two omnitaurs would be a crap-shoot and might influence what given 'monotaurism' might arise by chance.''
::...be a shame to waste it, but it doesn't really fit as is now, even if I 'correct' it. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.229.75|108.162.229.75]] 15:06, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Note: you can't call sharks "fish" without also calling humans, frogs, and eagles "fish" (if you're using the current taxonomic system based on cladistics). The cartilaginous fishes split from bony fishes long before the tetrapods like us split off from the lineage that became trout, flounder, and guppies. That is, a snake is much more closely related to a grouper than a shark is. [[User:Nitpicking|Nitpicking]] ([[User talk:Nitpicking|talk]]) 11:32, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
: [https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/california-court-ruling-bees-are-fish-bad-logic-good-humans-rcna32971 According to California courts, bees are fish.] (Spoiler: within the meaning of "Fish and Game" or something like that. Personally I think the judges were trolling because they could have more congruously gone with "game" because it was about honeybees which beekeepers obviously catch.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.95|172.70.206.95]] 13:42, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
:Fish are a paraphyletic group, but that doesn't make the group "wrong" by cladistics. Cladistics recognizes that its common for one branch of a group to go off and do something very divergent, and that the remaining members often have a lot of shared characteristics that make it useful to talk about them. For example, "stem mammals", which excludes actual mammals. Cladistics has stronger objections to polyphyly, which is grouping animals together that aren't a cladistic group with some very clear exceptions. It still recognizes the groups though, classifying them as polyphyletic groups. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.82.121|172.71.82.121]] 13:47, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
::^ This editor paraphyletizes. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.163|172.70.206.163]] 14:40, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

The speculation section needs a discussion of how living {{w|turducken}} could be engineered. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.88|172.70.211.88]] 11:44, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
:Being able to do that would be a great lab qual, but when the spacefairing dinosaurs find out we use them for the culinary arts, is there any hope for galactic peace? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.145|172.70.210.145]] 16:15, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

If HGTTG references are traditional here, ''The Restaurant at the End of the Universe'' had a pig with the mind and vocal tract of a human so it could articulate how much it wanted to be eaten. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 16:19, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

whose sona is this 🤨 --[[Special:Contributions/172.70.110.113|172.70.110.113]] 16:25, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
:Are you asking whether omnitaurs make good clerics in D&D? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.213|172.70.206.213]] 16:55, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
:: According to {{w|Sona (given name)}}, Sona is a feminine given name meaning gold or wisdom, but Google returns it as a Fortnight character. Unfortunately, we have evidence that the omnitaur could be hermaphroditic, so a full literature search may involve access of non-online resources, which I intend to enjoy. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.145|172.70.210.145]] 17:07, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

2653: Omnitaur

2022-08-02T16:32:49Z

172.70.210.145: /* Speculative implications */ spelling

{{comic
| number = 2653
| date = August 1, 2022
| title = Omnitaur
| image = omnitaur.png
| titletext = "My parents were both omnitaurs, which is how I got interested in recombination," said the normal human.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by AN OMNITAUR ZYGOTE IN A FETUS'S BODY. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
Omnitaur is an {{w|anagram}} of {{w|minotaur}}, a mythical creature that was part man, part bull. "{{wiktionary|omni}}" is a prefix that means "all" that is, for instance, known from the word {{w|omnivore}}, meaning 'all eating' as compared to {{w|carnivore}} or {{w|herbivore}} — only eating meat or plant respectively. Given the combination of animals used to create the omnitaur, it could be expected that it was also an omnivore.

An "omnitaur" would suggest that it would encompass all real and mythical creatures, or perhaps some random assortment of such. In this instance, it appears to be a hybrid, or {{w|Chimera (genetics)|genetic chimera}}, combined from eleven different creatures: {{w|fish}}, {{w|lion}}, {{w|snake}}, {{w|shark}}, {{w|bull}}, {{w|dragon}} (a mythical creature in its own right), {{w|horse}}, {{w|leopard}}, {{w|Sheep|ram}} (male sheep), {{w|human}} and {{w|bird}}. Chimerism is not as uncommon at the genetic level, for example humans have about 145 genes (out of around 30,000) originating from bacteria, other single-celled organisms, and viruses.[https://www.science.org/content/article/humans-may-harbor-more-100-genes-other-organisms] {{w|Mitochondria}}, the powerhouse of the cell, were originally chimeric bacteria {{w|symbiosis|symbionts}}. But chimeras of larger organisms are rare, usually involving fraternal twins whose {{w|zygote}}s or {{w|embryo}}s combined, as in {{w|conjoined twins}} but resulting in less distinct {{w|phenotype|phenotypical}} expression. Artificial human chimeras with viruses, mice, pigs, and monkeys have been the subject of ethics controversies in recent years.[https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/aug/11/the-five-chimeras-human-monkey-hybrid-genetic][https://jme.bmj.com/content/45/7/440.abstract]

The title text is a comment by a human whose parents were both omnitaurs. It would be funny that such parents would not produce offspring that was still omnitaur. It suggests that this may be the result of {{w|genetic recombination}}, which is the exchange of genetic material between different organisms leading to production of offspring with combinations of traits that differ from those found in either parent. In this case, seemingly, they inherited ''only'' the human elements of each parent, yet sufficient to develop into a whole human with no missing or chimeric elements. Both omnitaur parents probably had human germlines and compatible reproductive organs

===Mythical phenotypical chimeras===

In addition to the minotaur, many other potential inspirations can be found in mythology, like the {{w|centaur}}, which has the upper body of a human and the lower body and legs of a horse; the {{w|manticore}}, with a body of a lion and human face; a {{w|griffin}}, with a lion's body and a eagle's head; a {{w|mermaid}}, with a lower body of a fish and upper body of a human; a {{w|Hippocampus (mythology)|hippocampus}}, with the upper body of a horse and a lower body of a fish; a {{w|qilin}}, with a body that resembles both a horse and a dragon; or the mythological {{w|chimera (mythology)|chimera}}, for which the genetic chimera is named, which has lion, snake, and goat body parts. Ultimately, there are {{w|List of hybrid creatures in folklore|lots of hybrid creatures in mythology}} with {{w|phenotype}}s combined from multiple animals. Usually, genetic hybridization produces much more smoothly blended phenotypes instead of dividing the body into large distinctly chimeric regions, although {{w|Mosaic (genetics)|mosaicism}} of fur, skin or {{w|Heterochromia iridum|eyes}} can produce notable differences of hue or shade.

===Speculative implications===

In {{w|C. S. Lewis}}' {{w|The Chronicles of Narnia}}, the {{w|Magical_creatures_in_The_Chronicles_of_Narnia#Centaurs|centaurs}} are described as eating two meals — a huge roast meal "to satisfy the man stomach," and a meal of grass, "to satisfy the horse stomach," making it take quite some time for them to eat every morning. Since the omnitaur also has herbivore and omnivore (as well as carnivore) parts, this could further support the supposition that it is an omnivore, and it may similarly need multiple stomachs for these multiple appetites. It is unclear how compatible the various diets of its components would be (not least because 'fish,' 'snake' and 'bird' are quite unspecific, and it's hard to know what a dragon would eat) but it would likely need several meals, taking even longer to eat than the Centaur (plus the bird beak may slow the process down quite a bit.) In any case, a chimera of both warm and cold-blooded organisms seems unlikely to be viable, even at the organ level, let alone with combined surface phenotypes.

While chimeras occur in fantasy fiction, they also occur in science fiction, for example as {{w|cyborg}}s. The famous ''{{w|The Restaurant at the End of the Universe}}'' sequel to Douglas Adams' ''The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy'', had a pig with the mind and vocal tract of a human so it could articulate how much it wanted to be eaten.

==== Title text suppositions ====

Since the example depicted seems to be only 1/11 human, the odds of two parents as mentioned in the title text having fully human offspring would simplistically appear to be (1/11)11, or one chance in 285 billion. In reality, each physical part could not be the result of an equal recombinant genetic contribution, because the eleven animal chromosomes vary widely in number and size. Moreover, chimeras composed of multiple animals do not have chimeric children, because even with multiple sets of reproductive organs, the {{w|germline}}s are not combined.
Therefore, both omnitaur parents likely had human germlines and compatible reproductive organs. [https://journals.biologists.com/dev/article/148/12/dev195792/269139/The-road-to-generating-transplantable-organs-from Interspecies blastocyst complementation,] used to create human chimera organs and cell lines in other animals, is usually limited to combining two organisms into one whose offspring are not hybridized if they are even viable, and usually without human germlines or reproductive organs (or human central nervous systems, assuaging a major ethical concern.)

==Transcript==
:[A creature, the Omnitaur, is shown. It is a four legged animal divided into 11 segments, each segment is from a different animal. An arrow goes to each section from a label, most of the labels are above the animal, but the fourth and seventh segments labels are below the animal. The animal has a fish tail and cat like hind legs. The torso is divided into four segments, the first and last of these with scales, but only the last of these also with sharp scales at the top. The second torso segment is white and smooth, the third also white but with hair both above and below, those above merges with the sharp scales of the fourth torso segment. The front legs are horse like, the lower neck is from an animal with dark spots, the upper neck has rams horns, which goes over in the central part of a human head, with ears and hair (drawn like a real human, not like a xkcd stick figure) and finally the front of the face is a bird with its eyes and a beak shown. The labels are given here in the order of the segment of the animal from the back to the front (disregarding weather the label is written above or below the animal:]
:Fish
:Lion
:Snake
:Shark
:Bull
:Dragon
:Horse
:Leopard
:Ram
:Human
:Bird

:[Caption below the panel:]
:The Omnitaur

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Biology]]

2653: Omnitaur

2022-08-02T16:31:51Z

172.70.210.145: /* Speculative implications */ paragraph

{{comic
| number = 2653
| date = August 1, 2022
| title = Omnitaur
| image = omnitaur.png
| titletext = "My parents were both omnitaurs, which is how I got interested in recombination," said the normal human.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by AN OMNITAUR ZYGOTE IN A FETUS'S BODY. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
Omnitaur is an {{w|anagram}} of {{w|minotaur}}, a mythical creature that was part man, part bull. "{{wiktionary|omni}}" is a prefix that means "all" that is, for instance, known from the word {{w|omnivore}}, meaning 'all eating' as compared to {{w|carnivore}} or {{w|herbivore}} — only eating meat or plant respectively. Given the combination of animals used to create the omnitaur, it could be expected that it was also an omnivore.

An "omnitaur" would suggest that it would encompass all real and mythical creatures, or perhaps some random assortment of such. In this instance, it appears to be a hybrid, or {{w|Chimera (genetics)|genetic chimera}}, combined from eleven different creatures: {{w|fish}}, {{w|lion}}, {{w|snake}}, {{w|shark}}, {{w|bull}}, {{w|dragon}} (a mythical creature in its own right), {{w|horse}}, {{w|leopard}}, {{w|Sheep|ram}} (male sheep), {{w|human}} and {{w|bird}}. Chimerism is not as uncommon at the genetic level, for example humans have about 145 genes (out of around 30,000) originating from bacteria, other single-celled organisms, and viruses.[https://www.science.org/content/article/humans-may-harbor-more-100-genes-other-organisms] {{w|Mitochondria}}, the powerhouse of the cell, were originally chimeric bacteria {{w|symbiosis|symbionts}}. But chimeras of larger organisms are rare, usually involving fraternal twins whose {{w|zygote}}s or {{w|embryo}}s combined, as in {{w|conjoined twins}} but resulting in less distinct {{w|phenotype|phenotypical}} expression. Artificial human chimeras with viruses, mice, pigs, and monkeys have been the subject of ethics controversies in recent years.[https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/aug/11/the-five-chimeras-human-monkey-hybrid-genetic][https://jme.bmj.com/content/45/7/440.abstract]

The title text is a comment by a human whose parents were both omnitaurs. It would be funny that such parents would not produce offspring that was still omnitaur. It suggests that this may be the result of {{w|genetic recombination}}, which is the exchange of genetic material between different organisms leading to production of offspring with combinations of traits that differ from those found in either parent. In this case, seemingly, they inherited ''only'' the human elements of each parent, yet sufficient to develop into a whole human with no missing or chimeric elements. Both omnitaur parents probably had human germlines and compatible reproductive organs

===Mythical phenotypical chimeras===

In addition to the minotaur, many other potential inspirations can be found in mythology, like the {{w|centaur}}, which has the upper body of a human and the lower body and legs of a horse; the {{w|manticore}}, with a body of a lion and human face; a {{w|griffin}}, with a lion's body and a eagle's head; a {{w|mermaid}}, with a lower body of a fish and upper body of a human; a {{w|Hippocampus (mythology)|hippocampus}}, with the upper body of a horse and a lower body of a fish; a {{w|qilin}}, with a body that resembles both a horse and a dragon; or the mythological {{w|chimera (mythology)|chimera}}, for which the genetic chimera is named, which has lion, snake, and goat body parts. Ultimately, there are {{w|List of hybrid creatures in folklore|lots of hybrid creatures in mythology}} with {{w|phenotype}}s combined from multiple animals. Usually, genetic hybridization produces much more smoothly blended phenotypes instead of dividing the body into large distinctly chimeric regions, although {{w|Mosaic (genetics)|mosaicism}} of fur, skin or {{w|Heterochromia iridum|eyes}} can produce notable differences of hue or shade.

===Speculative implications===

In {{w|C. S. Lewis}}' {{w|The Chronicles of Narnia}}, the {{w|Magical_creatures_in_The_Chronicles_of_Narnia#Centaurs|centaurs}} are described as eating two meals — a huge roast meal "to satisfy the man stomach," and a meal of grass, "to satisfy the horse stomach," making it take quite some time for them to eat every morning. Since the omnitaur also has herbivore and omnivore (as well as carnivore) parts, this could further support the supposition that it is an omnivore, and it may similarly need multiple stomachs for these multiple appetites. It is unclear how compatible the various diets of its components would be (not least because 'fish,' 'snake' and 'bird' are quite unspecific, and it's hard to know what a dragon would eat) but it would likely need several meals, taking even longer to eat than the Centaur (plus the bird beak may slow the process down quite a bit.) In any case, a chimera of both warm and cold-blooded organisms seems unlikely to be viable, even at the organ level, let alone with combined surface phenotypes.

While chimeras occur in fantasy fiction, they also occur in science fiction, for example as {{w|cyborg}}s. The famous ''{{w|Resturant at the End of the Universe}}'' sequel to Douglas Adams' ''The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy'', had a pig with the mind and vocal tract of a human so it could articulate how much it wanted to be eaten.

==== Title text suppositions ====

Since the example depicted seems to be only 1/11 human, the odds of two parents as mentioned in the title text having fully human offspring would simplistically appear to be (1/11)11, or one chance in 285 billion. In reality, each physical part could not be the result of an equal recombinant genetic contribution, because the eleven animal chromosomes vary widely in number and size. Moreover, chimeras composed of multiple animals do not have chimeric children, because even with multiple sets of reproductive organs, the {{w|germline}}s are not combined.
Therefore, both omnitaur parents likely had human germlines and compatible reproductive organs. [https://journals.biologists.com/dev/article/148/12/dev195792/269139/The-road-to-generating-transplantable-organs-from Interspecies blastocyst complementation,] used to create human chimera organs and cell lines in other animals, is usually limited to combining two organisms into one whose offspring are not hybridized if they are even viable, and usually without human germlines or reproductive organs (or human central nervous systems, assuaging a major ethical concern.)

==Transcript==
:[A creature, the Omnitaur, is shown. It is a four legged animal divided into 11 segments, each segment is from a different animal. An arrow goes to each section from a label, most of the labels are above the animal, but the fourth and seventh segments labels are below the animal. The animal has a fish tail and cat like hind legs. The torso is divided into four segments, the first and last of these with scales, but only the last of these also with sharp scales at the top. The second torso segment is white and smooth, the third also white but with hair both above and below, those above merges with the sharp scales of the fourth torso segment. The front legs are horse like, the lower neck is from an animal with dark spots, the upper neck has rams horns, which goes over in the central part of a human head, with ears and hair (drawn like a real human, not like a xkcd stick figure) and finally the front of the face is a bird with its eyes and a beak shown. The labels are given here in the order of the segment of the animal from the back to the front (disregarding weather the label is written above or below the animal:]
:Fish
:Lion
:Snake
:Shark
:Bull
:Dragon
:Horse
:Leopard
:Ram
:Human
:Bird

:[Caption below the panel:]
:The Omnitaur

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Biology]]

2653: Omnitaur

2022-08-02T16:31:14Z

172.70.210.145: /* Speculative implications */ grammar

{{comic
| number = 2653
| date = August 1, 2022
| title = Omnitaur
| image = omnitaur.png
| titletext = "My parents were both omnitaurs, which is how I got interested in recombination," said the normal human.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by AN OMNITAUR ZYGOTE IN A FETUS'S BODY. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
Omnitaur is an {{w|anagram}} of {{w|minotaur}}, a mythical creature that was part man, part bull. "{{wiktionary|omni}}" is a prefix that means "all" that is, for instance, known from the word {{w|omnivore}}, meaning 'all eating' as compared to {{w|carnivore}} or {{w|herbivore}} — only eating meat or plant respectively. Given the combination of animals used to create the omnitaur, it could be expected that it was also an omnivore.

An "omnitaur" would suggest that it would encompass all real and mythical creatures, or perhaps some random assortment of such. In this instance, it appears to be a hybrid, or {{w|Chimera (genetics)|genetic chimera}}, combined from eleven different creatures: {{w|fish}}, {{w|lion}}, {{w|snake}}, {{w|shark}}, {{w|bull}}, {{w|dragon}} (a mythical creature in its own right), {{w|horse}}, {{w|leopard}}, {{w|Sheep|ram}} (male sheep), {{w|human}} and {{w|bird}}. Chimerism is not as uncommon at the genetic level, for example humans have about 145 genes (out of around 30,000) originating from bacteria, other single-celled organisms, and viruses.[https://www.science.org/content/article/humans-may-harbor-more-100-genes-other-organisms] {{w|Mitochondria}}, the powerhouse of the cell, were originally chimeric bacteria {{w|symbiosis|symbionts}}. But chimeras of larger organisms are rare, usually involving fraternal twins whose {{w|zygote}}s or {{w|embryo}}s combined, as in {{w|conjoined twins}} but resulting in less distinct {{w|phenotype|phenotypical}} expression. Artificial human chimeras with viruses, mice, pigs, and monkeys have been the subject of ethics controversies in recent years.[https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/aug/11/the-five-chimeras-human-monkey-hybrid-genetic][https://jme.bmj.com/content/45/7/440.abstract]

The title text is a comment by a human whose parents were both omnitaurs. It would be funny that such parents would not produce offspring that was still omnitaur. It suggests that this may be the result of {{w|genetic recombination}}, which is the exchange of genetic material between different organisms leading to production of offspring with combinations of traits that differ from those found in either parent. In this case, seemingly, they inherited ''only'' the human elements of each parent, yet sufficient to develop into a whole human with no missing or chimeric elements. Both omnitaur parents probably had human germlines and compatible reproductive organs

===Mythical phenotypical chimeras===

In addition to the minotaur, many other potential inspirations can be found in mythology, like the {{w|centaur}}, which has the upper body of a human and the lower body and legs of a horse; the {{w|manticore}}, with a body of a lion and human face; a {{w|griffin}}, with a lion's body and a eagle's head; a {{w|mermaid}}, with a lower body of a fish and upper body of a human; a {{w|Hippocampus (mythology)|hippocampus}}, with the upper body of a horse and a lower body of a fish; a {{w|qilin}}, with a body that resembles both a horse and a dragon; or the mythological {{w|chimera (mythology)|chimera}}, for which the genetic chimera is named, which has lion, snake, and goat body parts. Ultimately, there are {{w|List of hybrid creatures in folklore|lots of hybrid creatures in mythology}} with {{w|phenotype}}s combined from multiple animals. Usually, genetic hybridization produces much more smoothly blended phenotypes instead of dividing the body into large distinctly chimeric regions, although {{w|Mosaic (genetics)|mosaicism}} of fur, skin or {{w|Heterochromia iridum|eyes}} can produce notable differences of hue or shade.

===Speculative implications===

In {{w|C. S. Lewis}}' {{w|The Chronicles of Narnia}}, the {{w|Magical_creatures_in_The_Chronicles_of_Narnia#Centaurs|centaurs}} are described as eating two meals — a huge roast meal "to satisfy the man stomach," and a meal of grass, "to satisfy the horse stomach," making it take quite some time for them to eat every morning. Since the omnitaur also has herbivore and omnivore (as well as carnivore) parts, this could further support the supposition that it is an omnivore, and it may similarly need multiple stomachs for these multiple appetites. It is unclear how compatible the various diets of its components would be (not least because 'fish,' 'snake' and 'bird' are quite unspecific, and it's hard to know what a dragon would eat) but it would likely need several meals, taking even longer to eat than the Centaur (plus the bird beak may slow the process down quite a bit.) In any case, a chimera of both warm and cold-blooded organisms seems unlikely to be viable, even at the organ level, let alone with combined surface phenotypes. While chimeras occur in fantasy fiction, they also occur in science fiction, for example as {{w|cyborg}}s.

The famous ''{{w|Resturant at the End of the Universe}}'' sequel to Douglas Adams' ''The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy'', had a pig with the mind and vocal tract of a human so it could articulate how much it wanted to be eaten.

==== Title text suppositions ====

Since the example depicted seems to be only 1/11 human, the odds of two parents as mentioned in the title text having fully human offspring would simplistically appear to be (1/11)11, or one chance in 285 billion. In reality, each physical part could not be the result of an equal recombinant genetic contribution, because the eleven animal chromosomes vary widely in number and size. Moreover, chimeras composed of multiple animals do not have chimeric children, because even with multiple sets of reproductive organs, the {{w|germline}}s are not combined.
Therefore, both omnitaur parents likely had human germlines and compatible reproductive organs. [https://journals.biologists.com/dev/article/148/12/dev195792/269139/The-road-to-generating-transplantable-organs-from Interspecies blastocyst complementation,] used to create human chimera organs and cell lines in other animals, is usually limited to combining two organisms into one whose offspring are not hybridized if they are even viable, and usually without human germlines or reproductive organs (or human central nervous systems, assuaging a major ethical concern.)

==Transcript==
:[A creature, the Omnitaur, is shown. It is a four legged animal divided into 11 segments, each segment is from a different animal. An arrow goes to each section from a label, most of the labels are above the animal, but the fourth and seventh segments labels are below the animal. The animal has a fish tail and cat like hind legs. The torso is divided into four segments, the first and last of these with scales, but only the last of these also with sharp scales at the top. The second torso segment is white and smooth, the third also white but with hair both above and below, those above merges with the sharp scales of the fourth torso segment. The front legs are horse like, the lower neck is from an animal with dark spots, the upper neck has rams horns, which goes over in the central part of a human head, with ears and hair (drawn like a real human, not like a xkcd stick figure) and finally the front of the face is a bird with its eyes and a beak shown. The labels are given here in the order of the segment of the animal from the back to the front (disregarding weather the label is written above or below the animal:]
:Fish
:Lion
:Snake
:Shark
:Bull
:Dragon
:Horse
:Leopard
:Ram
:Human
:Bird

:[Caption below the panel:]
:The Omnitaur

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Biology]]

2653: Omnitaur

2022-08-02T16:30:36Z

172.70.210.145: /* Explanation */ s' or s's?

{{comic
| number = 2653
| date = August 1, 2022
| title = Omnitaur
| image = omnitaur.png
| titletext = "My parents were both omnitaurs, which is how I got interested in recombination," said the normal human.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by AN OMNITAUR ZYGOTE IN A FETUS'S BODY. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
Omnitaur is an {{w|anagram}} of {{w|minotaur}}, a mythical creature that was part man, part bull. "{{wiktionary|omni}}" is a prefix that means "all" that is, for instance, known from the word {{w|omnivore}}, meaning 'all eating' as compared to {{w|carnivore}} or {{w|herbivore}} — only eating meat or plant respectively. Given the combination of animals used to create the omnitaur, it could be expected that it was also an omnivore.

An "omnitaur" would suggest that it would encompass all real and mythical creatures, or perhaps some random assortment of such. In this instance, it appears to be a hybrid, or {{w|Chimera (genetics)|genetic chimera}}, combined from eleven different creatures: {{w|fish}}, {{w|lion}}, {{w|snake}}, {{w|shark}}, {{w|bull}}, {{w|dragon}} (a mythical creature in its own right), {{w|horse}}, {{w|leopard}}, {{w|Sheep|ram}} (male sheep), {{w|human}} and {{w|bird}}. Chimerism is not as uncommon at the genetic level, for example humans have about 145 genes (out of around 30,000) originating from bacteria, other single-celled organisms, and viruses.[https://www.science.org/content/article/humans-may-harbor-more-100-genes-other-organisms] {{w|Mitochondria}}, the powerhouse of the cell, were originally chimeric bacteria {{w|symbiosis|symbionts}}. But chimeras of larger organisms are rare, usually involving fraternal twins whose {{w|zygote}}s or {{w|embryo}}s combined, as in {{w|conjoined twins}} but resulting in less distinct {{w|phenotype|phenotypical}} expression. Artificial human chimeras with viruses, mice, pigs, and monkeys have been the subject of ethics controversies in recent years.[https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/aug/11/the-five-chimeras-human-monkey-hybrid-genetic][https://jme.bmj.com/content/45/7/440.abstract]

The title text is a comment by a human whose parents were both omnitaurs. It would be funny that such parents would not produce offspring that was still omnitaur. It suggests that this may be the result of {{w|genetic recombination}}, which is the exchange of genetic material between different organisms leading to production of offspring with combinations of traits that differ from those found in either parent. In this case, seemingly, they inherited ''only'' the human elements of each parent, yet sufficient to develop into a whole human with no missing or chimeric elements. Both omnitaur parents probably had human germlines and compatible reproductive organs

===Mythical phenotypical chimeras===

In addition to the minotaur, many other potential inspirations can be found in mythology, like the {{w|centaur}}, which has the upper body of a human and the lower body and legs of a horse; the {{w|manticore}}, with a body of a lion and human face; a {{w|griffin}}, with a lion's body and a eagle's head; a {{w|mermaid}}, with a lower body of a fish and upper body of a human; a {{w|Hippocampus (mythology)|hippocampus}}, with the upper body of a horse and a lower body of a fish; a {{w|qilin}}, with a body that resembles both a horse and a dragon; or the mythological {{w|chimera (mythology)|chimera}}, for which the genetic chimera is named, which has lion, snake, and goat body parts. Ultimately, there are {{w|List of hybrid creatures in folklore|lots of hybrid creatures in mythology}} with {{w|phenotype}}s combined from multiple animals. Usually, genetic hybridization produces much more smoothly blended phenotypes instead of dividing the body into large distinctly chimeric regions, although {{w|Mosaic (genetics)|mosaicism}} of fur, skin or {{w|Heterochromia iridum|eyes}} can produce notable differences of hue or shade.

===Speculative implications===

In {{w|C. S. Lewis}}' {{w|The Chronicles of Narnia}}, the {{w|Magical_creatures_in_The_Chronicles_of_Narnia#Centaurs|centaurs}} are described as eating two meals — a huge roast meal "to satisfy the man stomach," and a meal of grass, "to satisfy the horse stomach," making it take quite some time for them to eat every morning. Since the omnitaur also has herbivore and omnivore (as well as carnivore) parts, this could further support the supposition that it is an omnivore, and it may similarly need multiple stomachs for these multiple appetites. It is unclear how compatible the various diets of its components would be (not least because 'fish,' 'snake' and 'bird' are quite unspecific, and it's hard to know what a dragon would eat) but it would likely need several meals, taking even longer to eat than the Centaur (plus the bird beak may slow the process down quite a bit.) In any case, a chimera of both warm and cold-blooded organisms seems unlikely to be viable, even at the organ level, let alone with combined surface phenotypes. While chimeras occur in fantasy fiction, they also occur in science fiction, for example as {{w|cyborg}}s.

In the famous ''{{w|Resturant at the End of the Universe}}'' sequel to Douglas Adams' ''The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy'', had a pig with the mind and vocal tract of a human so it could articulate how much it wanted to be eaten.

==== Title text suppositions ====

Since the example depicted seems to be only 1/11 human, the odds of two parents as mentioned in the title text having fully human offspring would simplistically appear to be (1/11)11, or one chance in 285 billion. In reality, each physical part could not be the result of an equal recombinant genetic contribution, because the eleven animal chromosomes vary widely in number and size. Moreover, chimeras composed of multiple animals do not have chimeric children, because even with multiple sets of reproductive organs, the {{w|germline}}s are not combined.
Therefore, both omnitaur parents likely had human germlines and compatible reproductive organs. [https://journals.biologists.com/dev/article/148/12/dev195792/269139/The-road-to-generating-transplantable-organs-from Interspecies blastocyst complementation,] used to create human chimera organs and cell lines in other animals, is usually limited to combining two organisms into one whose offspring are not hybridized if they are even viable, and usually without human germlines or reproductive organs (or human central nervous systems, assuaging a major ethical concern.)

==Transcript==
:[A creature, the Omnitaur, is shown. It is a four legged animal divided into 11 segments, each segment is from a different animal. An arrow goes to each section from a label, most of the labels are above the animal, but the fourth and seventh segments labels are below the animal. The animal has a fish tail and cat like hind legs. The torso is divided into four segments, the first and last of these with scales, but only the last of these also with sharp scales at the top. The second torso segment is white and smooth, the third also white but with hair both above and below, those above merges with the sharp scales of the fourth torso segment. The front legs are horse like, the lower neck is from an animal with dark spots, the upper neck has rams horns, which goes over in the central part of a human head, with ears and hair (drawn like a real human, not like a xkcd stick figure) and finally the front of the face is a bird with its eyes and a beak shown. The labels are given here in the order of the segment of the animal from the back to the front (disregarding weather the label is written above or below the animal:]
:Fish
:Lion
:Snake
:Shark
:Bull
:Dragon
:Horse
:Leopard
:Ram
:Human
:Bird

:[Caption below the panel:]
:The Omnitaur

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Biology]]

Talk:2653: Omnitaur

2022-08-02T16:26:28Z

172.70.210.145: Lowercase

Talk:2653: Omnitaur

2022-08-02T16:15:19Z

172.70.210.145: Posit

2653: Omnitaur

2022-08-02T12:36:08Z

172.70.210.145: /* Mythological phenotypical chimeras */ mythical

{{comic
| number = 2653
| date = August 1, 2022
| title = Omnitaur
| image = omnitaur.png
| titletext = "My parents were both omnitaurs, which is how I got interested in recombination," said the normal human.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by AN OMNITAUR ZYGOTE IN A FETUS'S BODY. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
Omnitaur is an {{w|anagram}} of {{w|minotaur}}, a mythical creature that was part man, part bull. "{{wiktionary|omni}}" is a prefix that means "all" that is, for instance, known from the word {{w|omnivore}}, meaning 'all eating' as compared to {{w|carnivore}} or {{w|herbivore}} (only eating meat or plant respectively.) Given the combination of animals used to create the omnitaur, it could be expected that it was also an omnivore.

An "omnitaur" would suggest that it would encompass all real and mythical creatures, or perhaps some random assortment of such. In this instance, it appears to be a hybrid, or {{w|Chimera (genetics)|genetic chimera}}, combined from eleven different creatures: {{w|fish}}, {{w|lion}}, {{w|snake}}, {{w|shark}}, {{w|bull}}, {{w|dragon}} (a mythical creature in its own right), {{w|horse}}, {{w|leopard}}, {{w|Sheep|ram}} (male sheep), {{w|human}} and {{w|bird}}. Chimerism is not as uncommon at the genetic level, for example humans have about 145 genes (out of around 30,000) originating from bacteria, other single-celled organisms, and viruses.[https://www.science.org/content/article/humans-may-harbor-more-100-genes-other-organisms] But chimeras of larger organisms are rare, usually involving fraternal twins whose {{w|zygote}}s or {{w|embryo}}s combined, as in {{w|conjoined twins}} but resulting in less distinct {{w|phenotype|phenotypical}} expression. Artificial human chimeras with viruses, mice, pigs, and monkeys have been the subject of ethics controversies in recent years.[https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/aug/11/the-five-chimeras-human-monkey-hybrid-genetic][https://jme.bmj.com/content/45/7/440.abstract]

The title text is a comment by a human whose parents were both omnitaurs. It would be strange that such parents would not produce offspring that was still omnitaur. It suggests that this may be the result of {{w|genetic recombination}}, which is the exchange of genetic material between different organisms leading to production of offspring with combinations of traits that differ from those found in either parent. In this case, seemingly, they inherited ''only'' the human elements of each parent, yet sufficient to develop into a whole human with no missing or chimeric elements. Since we don't understand omnitaur genetics, we can't evaluate whether that is even plausible.

===Mythical phenotypical chimeras===

In addition to the minotaur, many other potential inspirations can be found in mythology, like the {{w|centaur}}, which has the upper body of a human and the lower body and legs of a horse; the {{w|manticore}}, with a body of a lion and human face; a {{w|griffin}}, with a lion's body and a eagle's head; a {{w|mermaid}}, with a lower body of a fish and upper body of a human; a {{w|Hippocampus (mythology)|hippocampus}}, with the upper body of a horse and a lower body of a fish; a {{w|qilin}}, with a body that resembles both a horse and a dragon; or the mythological {{w|chimera (mythology)|chimera}}, for which the genetic chimera is named, which has lion, snake, and goat body parts. Ultimately, there are {{w|List of hybrid creatures in folklore|lots of hybrid creatures in mythology}} with {{w|phenotype}}s combined from multiple animals. Usually, genetic hybridization produces much more smoothly blended phenotypes instead of dividing the body into large distinctly chimeric regions, although {{w|Mosaic (genetics)|mosaicism}} of fur, skin or {{w|Heterochromia iridum|eyes}} can produce notable differences of hue or shade.

===Speculative implications===

In {{w|C. S. Lewis}}' {{w|The Chronicles of Narnia}}, the {{w|Magical_creatures_in_The_Chronicles_of_Narnia#Centaurs|centaurs}} are described as eating two meals — a huge roast meal "to satisfy the man stomach," and a meal of grass, "to satisfy the horse stomach," making it take quite some time for them to eat every morning. Since the omnitaur also has herbivore and omnivore (as well as carnivore) parts, this could further support the supposition that it is an omnivore, and it may similarly need multiple stomachs for these multiple appetites. It is unclear how compatible the various diets of its components would be (not least because 'fish,' 'snake' and 'bird' are quite unspecific, and it's hard to know what a dragon would eat) but it would likely need several meals, taking even longer to eat than the Centaur (plus the bird beak may slow the process down quite a bit.)

Since the example depicted seems to be only 1/11 human, the odds of two parents as mentioned in the title text getting a fully human offspring would simplistically appear to be (1/11)11, or one chance in 285 billion. In reality, each physical part could not be the result of an equal genetic contribution, because the eleven animal chromosomes vary widely in number and size. If omnitaur genetics were governed by such principles, it would be hard to explain how a creature consisting of 11 different animals came into existence in the first place.{{cn}} [https://journals.biologists.com/dev/article/148/12/dev195792/269139/The-road-to-generating-transplantable-organs-from Interspecies blastocyst complementation,] used to create human chimera organs and cell lines in other animals, is usually limited to combining two organisms into one whose offspring are not hybridized if they are even viable.

==Transcript==
:[A creature, the Omnitaur, is shown. It is a four legged animal divided into 11 segments, each segment is from a different animal. An arrow goes to each section from a label, most of the labels are above the animal, but the fourth and seventh segments labels are below the animal. The animal has a fish tail and cat like hind legs. The torso is divided into four segments, the first and last of these with scales, but only the last of these also with sharp scales at the top. The second torso segment is white and smooth, the third also white but with hair both above and below, those above merges with the sharp scales of the fourth torso segment. The front legs are horse like, the lower neck is from an animal with dark spots, the upper neck has rams horns, which goes over in the central part of a human head, with ears and hair (drawn like a real human, not like a xkcd stick figure) and finally the front of the face is a bird with its eyes and a beak shown. The labels are given here in the order of the segment of the animal from the back to the front (disregarding weather the label is written above or below the animal:]
:Fish
:Lion
:Snake
:Shark
:Bull
:Dragon
:Horse
:Leopard
:Ram
:Human
:Bird

:[Caption below the panel:]
:The Omnitaur

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Biology]]

2652: Proxy Variable

2022-08-02T12:34:07Z

172.70.210.145: /* Explanation */ traditional/legally safe way

{{comic
| number = 2652
| date = July 29, 2022
| title = Proxy Variable
| image = proxy_variable.png
| titletext = Our work has produced great answers. Now someone just needs to figure out which questions they go with.
}}

__NOTOC__

==Explanation==
In this comic, [[Hairy]] is discussing use of a proxy variable with [[Cueball]]. In statistics, a {{w|proxy variable}} is used as a stand-in for one or more other variables that are difficult to measure. In order to be useful as such, proxy variables must be correlated with what they are intended to represent. For example, a drug might aim to reduce deaths from a slow-acting disease. But testing if it reduces deaths might take many years, so researchers might test for a proxy outcome instead, like whether it results in loss of bone density or damage to cells. Physicians use blood pressure as one of many proxies for cardiovascular health.

Hairy is dismissing the question of whether they are studying the right variable as too expensive to answer. This is deeply ironic and thus satirical, because good {{w|experiment design}} requires sufficient attention to the robustness of all the involved parts of an experiment, even if the expense may be prohibitive. This comic might be referring to the recent discovery of [https://www.science.org/content/article/potential-fabrication-research-images-threatens-key-theory-alzheimers-disease nearly two decades] of allegedly fraudulent {{w|Alzheimer's disease}} research supporting a mistaken proxy hypothesis.

Choosing the wrong proxy variable might make the research misleading, irrelevant, or as the title text suggests, answer the wrong question. Separating correlation from {{w|Causality|causation}} is necessary when interpreting proxy variable results to make sure the question they answer is known. Mere correlation instead of {{w|Causal analysis|authentic causation}} yields weaker results. {{w|Exploratory causal analysis}} can assist with finding useful proxy variables, but is difficult for the layperson to interpret and can be misleading, because even if performed correctly, a {{w|combinatorial explosion}} of possible proxy variables can make traditional {{w|statistical significance}} analysis fail, requiring {{w|F-score}}s or similar measures. The history of pharmaceutical research is largely a graveyard of failed proxy hypotheses; that is one of the reasons for [https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/manage-recs/fdaaa experiment registration regulations.]

The title text's notion of having an answer without knowing the actual question could also be be a reference to the classic comedy science fiction novel {{w|The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy|The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy}}, where in one scene Earth turns out to be a supercomputer built for the purpose of figuring out the question for the answer "42."

=== Examples of noteworthy proxy variables ===

* Loss of bone density or damage to cells for toxicity
* Blood pressure for cardiovascular health
* Amyloid markers for Alzheimer's disease

* Local temperature for global warming severity
* GDP growth for development (demolishing a hospital adds to GDP but subtracts from development)
* Money supply size for price inflation (see e.g. the {{w|paradox of thrift}})
* {{W|Carbonic anhydrase}} expression for carbon sequestration
* Asphalt production for carbon sequestration
* Proportion renewable energy for carbon reduction (see {{w|Jevons paradox}})
* Dialytic {{w|desalination}} for carbon sequestration[https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B73LgocyHQnfV1Q4VE45RmFFeFlPSDlKalctVS1nRlYyY3lR/view?usp=sharing&resourcekey=0-3YeR9jAkROsI0YLf4_07GQ][https://drive.google.com/file/d/14igVdhaIhrbHVTN5lI3XfxgNWPsvjNa7]
* {{w|Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis}} application for mosquito abatement

==Transcript==
:[Cueball is looking at Hairy who points a pointer to a poster. On the poster there is a line graph at the top and below that a candlestick chart. The line graph appears to show a time series with a question mark inside a ellipsoid at the end of the curve. The candlestick chart shows a box-and-whiskers plot comparing two variables. There is no readable text except the question mark. Hairy's stick points just below the line chart.]
:Hairy: We want to study this variable, but it's too hard to observe.
:Poster: ?

:[In a slim panel only Hairy and the poster are shown. His pointer now points to the left variable in the box-and-whiskers plot,]
:Hairy: So we're studying this proxy variable.
:Poster: ?

:[Back to Cueball and Hairy with the poster out of frame. Hairy holds the pointer down by his side.]
:Cueball: Is it correlated with the other variable?
:Hairy: Look, we don't have the funding to answer every little question.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Hairy]]
[[Category:Science]]
[[Category:Line graphs]]
[[Category:Charts]]

2652: Proxy Variable

2022-08-02T12:33:20Z

172.70.210.145: /* Explanation */ the visual evidence is sadly quite compelling

{{comic
| number = 2652
| date = July 29, 2022
| title = Proxy Variable
| image = proxy_variable.png
| titletext = Our work has produced great answers. Now someone just needs to figure out which questions they go with.
}}

__NOTOC__

==Explanation==
In this comic, [[Hairy]] is discussing use of a proxy variable with [[Cueball]]. In statistics, a {{w|proxy variable}} is used as a stand-in for one or more other variables that are difficult to measure. In order to be useful as such, proxy variables must be correlated with what they are intended to represent. For example, a drug might aim to reduce deaths from a slow-acting disease. But testing if it reduces deaths might take many years, so researchers might test for a proxy outcome instead, like whether it results in loss of bone density or damage to cells. Physicians use blood pressure as one of many proxies for cardiovascular health.

Hairy is dismissing the question of whether they are studying the right variable as too expensive to answer. This is deeply ironic and thus satirical, because good {{w|experiment design}} requires sufficient attention to the robustness of all the involved parts of an experiment, even if the expense may be prohibitive. This comic might be referring to the recent discovery of [https://www.science.org/content/article/potential-fabrication-research-images-threatens-key-theory-alzheimers-disease nearly two decades] of likely fraudulent {{w|Alzheimer's disease}} research supporting a mistaken proxy hypothesis.

Choosing the wrong proxy variable might make the research misleading, irrelevant, or as the title text suggests, answer the wrong question. Separating correlation from {{w|Causality|causation}} is necessary when interpreting proxy variable results to make sure the question they answer is known. Mere correlation instead of {{w|Causal analysis|authentic causation}} yields weaker results. {{w|Exploratory causal analysis}} can assist with finding useful proxy variables, but is difficult for the layperson to interpret and can be misleading, because even if performed correctly, a {{w|combinatorial explosion}} of possible proxy variables can make traditional {{w|statistical significance}} analysis fail, requiring {{w|F-score}}s or similar measures. The history of pharmaceutical research is largely a graveyard of failed proxy hypotheses; that is one of the reasons for [https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/manage-recs/fdaaa experiment registration regulations.]

The title text's notion of having an answer without knowing the actual question could also be be a reference to the classic comedy science fiction novel {{w|The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy|The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy}}, where in one scene Earth turns out to be a supercomputer built for the purpose of figuring out the question for the answer "42."

=== Examples of noteworthy proxy variables ===

* Loss of bone density or damage to cells for toxicity
* Blood pressure for cardiovascular health
* Amyloid markers for Alzheimer's disease

* Local temperature for global warming severity
* GDP growth for development (demolishing a hospital adds to GDP but subtracts from development)
* Money supply size for price inflation (see e.g. the {{w|paradox of thrift}})
* {{W|Carbonic anhydrase}} expression for carbon sequestration
* Asphalt production for carbon sequestration
* Proportion renewable energy for carbon reduction (see {{w|Jevons paradox}})
* Dialytic {{w|desalination}} for carbon sequestration[https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B73LgocyHQnfV1Q4VE45RmFFeFlPSDlKalctVS1nRlYyY3lR/view?usp=sharing&resourcekey=0-3YeR9jAkROsI0YLf4_07GQ][https://drive.google.com/file/d/14igVdhaIhrbHVTN5lI3XfxgNWPsvjNa7]
* {{w|Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis}} application for mosquito abatement

==Transcript==
:[Cueball is looking at Hairy who points a pointer to a poster. On the poster there is a line graph at the top and below that a candlestick chart. The line graph appears to show a time series with a question mark inside a ellipsoid at the end of the curve. The candlestick chart shows a box-and-whiskers plot comparing two variables. There is no readable text except the question mark. Hairy's stick points just below the line chart.]
:Hairy: We want to study this variable, but it's too hard to observe.
:Poster: ?

:[In a slim panel only Hairy and the poster are shown. His pointer now points to the left variable in the box-and-whiskers plot,]
:Hairy: So we're studying this proxy variable.
:Poster: ?

:[Back to Cueball and Hairy with the poster out of frame. Hairy holds the pointer down by his side.]
:Cueball: Is it correlated with the other variable?
:Hairy: Look, we don't have the funding to answer every little question.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Hairy]]
[[Category:Science]]
[[Category:Line graphs]]
[[Category:Charts]]

2653: Omnitaur

2022-08-02T11:53:23Z

172.70.210.145: /* Explanation */ comparison to total number of genes

{{comic
| number = 2653
| date = August 1, 2022
| title = Omnitaur
| image = omnitaur.png
| titletext = "My parents were both omnitaurs, which is how I got interested in recombination," said the normal human.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by AN OMNITAUR ZYGOTE IN A FETUS'S BODY. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
Omnitaur is an {{w|anagram}} of {{w|minotaur}}, a mythical creature that was part man, part bull. "{{wiktionary|omni}}" is a prefix that means "all" that is, for instance, known from the word {{w|omnivore}}, meaning 'all eating' as compared to {{w|carnivore}} or {{w|herbivore}} (only eating meat or plant respectively). Given the combination of animals used to create the omnitaur, it could be expected that it was also an omnivore.

An "omnitaur" would suggest that it would encompass all real and mythical creatures, or perhaps some random assortment of such. In this instance, it appears to be a hybrid, or {{w|Chimera (genetics)|genetic chimera}}, combined from eleven different creatures: {{w|fish}}, {{w|lion}}, {{w|snake}}, {{w|shark}}, {{w|bull}}, {{w|dragon}} (a mythical creature in its own right), {{w|horse}}, {{w|leopard}}, {{w|Sheep|ram}} (male sheep), {{w|human}} and {{w|bird}}. Chimerism is not uncommon at the genetic level, for example humans have about 145 genes (out of around 30,000) originating from bacteria, other single-celled organisms, and viruses.[https://www.science.org/content/article/humans-may-harbor-more-100-genes-other-organisms] But chimeras of larger organisms are rare, usually involving fraternal twins whose {{w|zygote}}s or {{w|embryo}}s combined, as in {{w|conjoined twins}} but resulting in less distinct {{w|phenotype|phenotypical}} expression. Artificial human chimeras with viruses, mice, pigs, and monkeys have been the subject of ethics controversies in recent years.[https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/aug/11/the-five-chimeras-human-monkey-hybrid-genetic]

The title text is a comment by a human whose parents were both omnitaurs. It would be strange that such parents would not produce offspring that was still omnitaur. It suggests that this may be the result of {{w|genetic recombination}}, which is the exchange of genetic material between different organisms leading to production of offspring with combinations of traits that differ from those found in either parent. In this case, seemingly, they inherited ''only'' the human elements of each parent, yet sufficient to develop into a whole human with no missing or chimeric elements. Since we don't understand omnitaur genetics, we can't evaluate whether that is even plausible.

===Mythological phenotypical chimeras===

In addition to the minotaur, many other potential inspirations can be found in mythology, like the {{w|centaur}}, which has the upper body of a human and the lower body and legs of a horse; the {{w|manticore}}, with a body of a lion and human face; a {{w|griffin}}, with a lion's body and a eagle's head; a {{w|mermaid}}, with a lower body of a fish and upper body of a human; a {{w|Hippocampus (mythology)|hippocampus}}, with the upper body of a horse and a lower body of a fish; a {{w|qilin}}, with a body that resembles both a horse and a dragon; or the mythological {{w|chimera (mythology)|chimera}}, for which the genetic chimera is named, which has lion, snake, and goat body parts. Ultimately, there are {{w|List of hybrid creatures in folklore|lots of hybrid creatures in mythology}} with {{w|phenotype}}s combined from multiple animals. Usually, genetic hybridization produces much more smoothly blended phenotypes instead of dividing the body into large distinctly chimeric regions, although {{w|Mosaic (genetics)|mosaicism}} of fur, skin or {{w|Heterochromia iridum|eyes}} can produce notable differences of hue or shade.

===Speculative implications===

In {{w|C. S. Lewis}}' {{w|The Chronicles of Narnia}}, the {{w|Magical_creatures_in_The_Chronicles_of_Narnia#Centaurs|centaurs}} are described as eating two meals — a huge roast meal "to satisfy the man stomach," and a meal of grass, "to satisfy the horse stomach," making it take quite some time for them to eat every morning. Since the omnitaur also has herbivore and omnivore (as well as carnivore) parts, this could further support the supposition that it is an omnivore, and it may similarly need multiple stomachs for these multiple appetites. It is unclear how compatible the various diets of its components would be (not least because 'fish,' 'snake' and 'bird' are quite unspecific, and it's hard to know what a dragon would eat) but it would likely need several meals, taking even longer to eat than the Centaur (plus the bird beak may slow the process down quite a bit.)

Since the example depicted seems to be only 1/11 human, the odds of two parents as mentioned in the title text getting a fully human offspring would simplistically appear to be (1/11)11, or one chance in 285 billion. In reality, each physical part could not be the result of an equal genetic contribution, because the eleven animal chromosomes vary widely in number and size. If omnitaur genetics were governed by such principles, it would be hard to explain how a creature consisting of 11 different animals came into existence in the first place.{{cn}}

==Transcript==
:[A creature, the Omnitaur, is shown. It is a four legged animal divided into 11 segments, each segment is from a different animal. An arrow goes to each section from a label, most of the labels are above the animal, but the fourth and seventh segments labels are below the animal. The animal has a fish tail and cat like hind legs. The torso is divided into four segments, the first and last of these with scales, but only the last of these also with sharp scales at the top. The second torso segment is white and smooth, the third also white but with hair both above and below, those above merges with the sharp scales of the fourth torso segment. The front legs are horse like, the lower neck is from an animal with dark spots, the upper neck has rams horns, which goes over in the central part of a human head, with ears and hair (drawn like a real human, not like a xkcd stick figure) and finally the front of the face is a bird with its eyes and a beak shown. The labels are given here in the order of the segment of the animal from the back to the front (disregarding weather the label is written above or below the animal:]
:Fish
:Lion
:Snake
:Shark
:Bull
:Dragon
:Horse
:Leopard
:Ram
:Human
:Bird

:[Caption below the panel:]
:The Omnitaur

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Biology]]

2653: Omnitaur

2022-08-02T10:53:05Z

172.70.210.145: /* Explanation */ spelling

{{comic
| number = 2653
| date = August 1, 2022
| title = Omnitaur
| image = omnitaur.png
| titletext = "My parents were both omnitaurs, which is how I got interested in recombination," said the normal human.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by AN OMNITAUR-HUMAN HYBRID - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
Omnitaur is an {{w|anagram}} of {{w|minotaur}}, a mythical creature that was part man, part bull. "{{wiktionary|omni}}" is a prefix that means "all" that is, for instance, known from the word {{w|omnivore}}, meaning 'all eating' as compared to {{w|carnivore}} or {{w|herbivore}} (only eating meat or plant respectively). Given the combination of animals used to create the omnitaur, it could be expected that it was also an omnivore.

An "omnitaur" would suggest that it would encompass all real and mythical creatures, or perhaps some random assortment of such. In this instance, it appears to be a hybrid, or {{w|Chimera (genetics)|genetic chimera}}, combined from 11 different creatures: {{w|fish}}, {{w|lion}}, {{w|snake}}, {{w|shark}} (also a fish), {{w|bull}}, {{w|dragon}} (a mythical creature in its own right), {{w|horse}}, {{w|leopard}}, {{w|Sheep|ram}} (male sheep), {{w|human}} and {{w|bird}}. Chimerism is not uncommon at the genetic level, for example humans have about 145 genes originating from bacteria, other single-celled organisms, and viruses,[https://www.science.org/content/article/humans-may-harbor-more-100-genes-other-organisms] but chimeras of larger organisms are rare. Human chimeras with viruses, mice, pigs, monkeys, and other humans have been the subject of ethics controversies in recent years.[https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/aug/11/the-five-chimeras-human-monkey-hybrid-genetic]

The title text is a comment by a human whose parents were both omnitaurs. It would be strange that such parents would not produce offspring that was still omnitaur. It suggests that this may be the result of {{w|genetic recombination}}, which is the exchange of genetic material between different organisms leading to production of offspring with combinations of traits that differ from those found in either parent. In this case, seemingly, they inherited ''only'' the human elements of each parent, yet sufficient to develop into a whole human with no missing or chimeric elements. Since we don't understand omnitaur genetics, we can't evaluate whether that is even plausible.

===Mythological phenotypical chimeras===

In addition to the minotaur, many other potential inspirations can be found in mythology, like the {{w|centaur}}, which has the upper body of a human and the lower body and legs of a horse; the {{w|manticore}}, with a body of a lion and human face; a {{w|griffin}}, with a lion's body and a eagle's head; a {{w|mermaid}}, with a lower body of a fish and upper body of a human; a {{w|Hippocampus (mythology)|hippocampus}}, with the upper body of a horse and a lower body of a fish; a {{w|qilin}}, with a body that resembles both a horse and a dragon; or the mythological {{w|chimera (mythology)|chimera}}, for which the genetic chimera is named, which has lion, snake, and goat body parts. Ultimately, there are {{w|List of hybrid creatures in folklore|lots of hybrid creatures in mythology}} with {{w|phenotype}}s combined from multiple animals. Usually, genetic hybridization produces much more smoothly blended phenotypes instead of dividing the body into large distinctly chimeric regions.

===Speculative implications===

In {{w|C. S. Lewis}}' {{w|The Chronicles of Narnia}}, the {{w|Magical_creatures_in_The_Chronicles_of_Narnia#Centaurs|centaurs}} are depicted eating two meals - a huge roast meal "to satisfy the man stomach," and a meal of grass, "to satisfy the horse stomach," making it take quite some time for them to eat every morning. Since the omnitaur also has herbivore and omnivore (as well as carnivore) parts, this could further support the supposition that it is an omnivore, and it may similarly need multiple stomachs for these multiple appetites. It is unclear how compatible the various diets of its components would be (not least because 'fish,' 'snake' and 'bird' are quite unspecific, and it's hard to know what a dragon would eat) but it would likely need several meals, taking even longer to eat than the Centaur (plus the bird beak may slow the process down quite a bit.)

Since the example depicted seems to be only 1/11 human, the odds of two parents as mentioned in the title text getting a fully human offspring would simplistically appear to be (1/11)11, or one chance in 285 billion. In reality, each physical part could not be the result of an equal genetic contribution, because the eleven animal chromosomes vary widely in number and size. If omnitaur genetics were governed by such principles, it would be hard to explain how a creature consisting of 11 different animals came into existence in the first place.{{cn}}

==Transcript==
:[A creature, the Omnitaur, is shown. It is a four legged animal divided into 11 segments, each segment is from a different animal. An arrow goes to each section from a label, most of the labels are above the animal, but the fourth and seventh segments labels are below the animal. The animal has a fish tail and cat like hind legs. The torso is divided into four segments, the first and last of these with scales, but only the last of these also with sharp scales at the top. The second torso segment is white and smooth, the third also white but with hair both above and below, those above merges with the sharp scales of the fourth torso segment. The front legs are horse like, the lower neck is from an animal with dark spots, the upper neck has rams horns, which goes over in the central part of a human head, with ears and hair (drawn like a real human, not like a xkcd stick figure) and finally the front of the face is a bird with its eyes and a beak shown. The labels are given here in the order of the segment of the animal from the back to the front (disregarding weather the label is written above or below the animal:]
:Fish
:Lion
:Snake
:Shark
:Bull
:Dragon
:Horse
:Leopard
:Ram
:Human
:Bird

:[Caption below the panel:]
:The Omnitaur

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Biology]]

2653: Omnitaur

2022-08-02T10:51:34Z

172.70.210.145: Human chimeras

{{comic
| number = 2653
| date = August 1, 2022
| title = Omnitaur
| image = omnitaur.png
| titletext = "My parents were both omnitaurs, which is how I got interested in recombination," said the normal human.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by AN OMNITAUR-HUMAN HYBRID - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
Omnitaur is an {{w|anagram}} of {{w|minotaur}}, a mythical creature that was part man, part bull. "{{wiktionary|omni}}" is a prefix that means "all" that is, for instance, known from the word {{w|omnivore}}, meaning 'all eating' as compared to {{w|carnivore}} or {{w|herbivore}} (only eating meat or plant respectively). Given the combination of animals used to create the omnitaur, it could be expected that it was also an omnivore.

An "omnitaur" would suggest that it would encompass all real and mythical creatures, or perhaps some random assortment of such. In this instance, it appears to be a hybrid, or {{w|Chimera (genetics)|genetic chimera}}, combined from 11 different creatures: {{w|fish}}, {{w|lion}}, {{w|snake}}, {{w|shark}} (also a fish), {{w|bull}}, {{w|dragon}} (a mythical creature in its own right), {{w|horse}}, {{w|leopard}}, {{w|Sheep|ram}} (male sheep), {{w|human}} and {{w|bird}}. Chimerism is not uncommon at the genetic level, for example humans have about 145 genes originating from bacteria, other single-celled organisms, and viruses,[https://www.science.org/content/article/humans-may-harbor-more-100-genes-other-organisms] but chimeras of larger organisms are rare. Human chimeras with viruses, mice, pigs, monkeyes, and other humans have been the subject of ethics controversy in recent years.[https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/aug/11/the-five-chimeras-human-monkey-hybrid-genetic]

The title text is a comment by a human whose parents were both omnitaurs. It would be strange that such parents would not produce offspring that was still omnitaur. It suggests that this may be the result of {{w|genetic recombination}}, which is the exchange of genetic material between different organisms leading to production of offspring with combinations of traits that differ from those found in either parent. In this case, seemingly, they inherited ''only'' the human elements of each parent, yet sufficient to develop into a whole human with no missing or chimeric elements. Since we don't understand omnitaur genetics, we can't evaluate whether that is even plausible.

===Mythological phenotypical chimeras===

In addition to the minotaur, many other potential inspirations can be found in mythology, like the {{w|centaur}}, which has the upper body of a human and the lower body and legs of a horse; the {{w|manticore}}, with a body of a lion and human face; a {{w|griffin}}, with a lion's body and a eagle's head; a {{w|mermaid}}, with a lower body of a fish and upper body of a human; a {{w|Hippocampus (mythology)|hippocampus}}, with the upper body of a horse and a lower body of a fish; a {{w|qilin}}, with a body that resembles both a horse and a dragon; or the mythological {{w|chimera (mythology)|chimera}}, for which the genetic chimera is named, which has lion, snake, and goat body parts. Ultimately, there are {{w|List of hybrid creatures in folklore|lots of hybrid creatures in mythology}} with {{w|phenotype}}s combined from multiple animals. Usually, genetic hybridization produces much more smoothly blended phenotypes instead of dividing the body into large distinctly chimeric regions.

===Speculative implications===

In {{w|C. S. Lewis}}' {{w|The Chronicles of Narnia}}, the {{w|Magical_creatures_in_The_Chronicles_of_Narnia#Centaurs|centaurs}} are depicted eating two meals - a huge roast meal "to satisfy the man stomach," and a meal of grass, "to satisfy the horse stomach," making it take quite some time for them to eat every morning. Since the omnitaur also has herbivore and omnivore (as well as carnivore) parts, this could further support the supposition that it is an omnivore, and it may similarly need multiple stomachs for these multiple appetites. It is unclear how compatible the various diets of its components would be (not least because 'fish,' 'snake' and 'bird' are quite unspecific, and it's hard to know what a dragon would eat) but it would likely need several meals, taking even longer to eat than the Centaur (plus the bird beak may slow the process down quite a bit.)

Since the example depicted seems to be only 1/11 human, the odds of two parents as mentioned in the title text getting a fully human offspring would simplistically appear to be (1/11)11, or one chance in 285 billion. In reality, each physical part could not be the result of an equal genetic contribution, because the eleven animal chromosomes vary widely in number and size. If omnitaur genetics were governed by such principles, it would be hard to explain how a creature consisting of 11 different animals came into existence in the first place.{{cn}}

==Transcript==
:[A creature, the Omnitaur, is shown. It is a four legged animal divided into 11 segments, each segment is from a different animal. An arrow goes to each section from a label, most of the labels are above the animal, but the fourth and seventh segments labels are below the animal. The animal has a fish tail and cat like hind legs. The torso is divided into four segments, the first and last of these with scales, but only the last of these also with sharp scales at the top. The second torso segment is white and smooth, the third also white but with hair both above and below, those above merges with the sharp scales of the fourth torso segment. The front legs are horse like, the lower neck is from an animal with dark spots, the upper neck has rams horns, which goes over in the central part of a human head, with ears and hair (drawn like a real human, not like a xkcd stick figure) and finally the front of the face is a bird with its eyes and a beak shown. The labels are given here in the order of the segment of the animal from the back to the front (disregarding weather the label is written above or below the animal:]
:Fish
:Lion
:Snake
:Shark
:Bull
:Dragon
:Horse
:Leopard
:Ram
:Human
:Bird

:[Caption below the panel:]
:The Omnitaur

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Biology]]

2653: Omnitaur

2022-08-02T10:47:37Z

172.70.210.145: /* Explanation */ tighten prose

{{comic
| number = 2653
| date = August 1, 2022
| title = Omnitaur
| image = omnitaur.png
| titletext = "My parents were both omnitaurs, which is how I got interested in recombination," said the normal human.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by AN OMNITAUR-HUMAN HYBRID - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
Omnitaur is an {{w|anagram}} of {{w|minotaur}}, a mythical creature that was part man, part bull. "{{wiktionary|omni}}" is a prefix that means "all" that is, for instance, known from the word {{w|omnivore}}, meaning 'all eating' as compared to {{w|carnivore}} or {{w|herbivore}} (only eating meat or plant respectively). Given the combination of animals used to create the omnitaur, it could be expected that it was also an omnivore.

An "omnitaur" would suggest that it would encompass all real and mythical creatures, or perhaps some random assortment of such. In this instance, it appears to be a hybrid, or {{w|Chimera (genetics)|genetic chimera}}, combined from 11 different creatures: {{w|fish}}, {{w|lion}}, {{w|snake}}, {{w|shark}} (also a fish), {{w|bull}}, {{w|dragon}} (a mythical creature in its own right), {{w|horse}}, {{w|leopard}}, {{w|Sheep|ram}} (male sheep), {{w|human}} and {{w|bird}}. Chimerism is not uncommon at the genetic level, for example humans have about 145 genes originating from bacteria, other single-celled organisms, and viruses,[https://www.science.org/content/article/humans-may-harbor-more-100-genes-other-organisms] but chimeras of larger organisms are rare.

The title text is a comment by a human whose parents were both omnitaurs. It would be strange that such parents would not produce offspring that was still omnitaur. It suggests that this may be the result of {{w|genetic recombination}}, which is the exchange of genetic material between different organisms leading to production of offspring with combinations of traits that differ from those found in either parent. In this case, seemingly, they inherited ''only'' the human elements of each parent, yet sufficient to develop into a whole human with no missing or chimeric elements. Since we don't understand omnitaur genetics, we can't evaluate whether that is even plausible.

===Mythological phenotypical chimeras===

In addition to the minotaur, many other potential inspirations can be found in mythology, like the {{w|centaur}}, which has the upper body of a human and the lower body and legs of a horse; the {{w|manticore}}, with a body of a lion and human face; a {{w|griffin}}, with a lion's body and a eagle's head; a {{w|mermaid}}, with a lower body of a fish and upper body of a human; a {{w|Hippocampus (mythology)|hippocampus}}, with the upper body of a horse and a lower body of a fish; a {{w|qilin}}, with a body that resembles both a horse and a dragon; or the mythological {{w|chimera (mythology)|chimera}}, for which the genetic chimera is named, which has lion, snake, and goat body parts. Ultimately, there are {{w|List of hybrid creatures in folklore|lots of hybrid creatures in mythology}} with {{w|phenotype}}s combined from multiple animals. Usually, genetic hybridization produces much more smoothly blended phenotypes instead of dividing the body into large distinctly chimeric regions.

===Speculative implications===

In {{w|C. S. Lewis}}' {{w|The Chronicles of Narnia}}, the {{w|Magical_creatures_in_The_Chronicles_of_Narnia#Centaurs|centaurs}} are depicted eating two meals - a huge roast meal "to satisfy the man stomach," and a meal of grass, "to satisfy the horse stomach," making it take quite some time for them to eat every morning. Since the omnitaur also has herbivore and omnivore (as well as carnivore) parts, this could further support the supposition that it is an omnivore, and it may similarly need multiple stomachs for these multiple appetites. It is unclear how compatible the various diets of its components would be (not least because 'fish,' 'snake' and 'bird' are quite unspecific, and it's hard to know what a dragon would eat) but it would likely need several meals, taking even longer to eat than the Centaur (plus the bird beak may slow the process down quite a bit.)

Since the example depicted seems to be only 1/11 human, the odds of two parents as mentioned in the title text getting a fully human offspring would simplistically appear to be (1/11)11, or one chance in 285 billion. In reality, each physical part could not be the result of an equal genetic contribution, because the eleven animal chromosomes vary widely in number and size. If omnitaur genetics were governed by such principles, it would be hard to explain how a creature consisting of 11 different animals came into existence in the first place.{{cn}}

==Transcript==
:[A creature, the Omnitaur, is shown. It is a four legged animal divided into 11 segments, each segment is from a different animal. An arrow goes to each section from a label, most of the labels are above the animal, but the fourth and seventh segments labels are below the animal. The animal has a fish tail and cat like hind legs. The torso is divided into four segments, the first and last of these with scales, but only the last of these also with sharp scales at the top. The second torso segment is white and smooth, the third also white but with hair both above and below, those above merges with the sharp scales of the fourth torso segment. The front legs are horse like, the lower neck is from an animal with dark spots, the upper neck has rams horns, which goes over in the central part of a human head, with ears and hair (drawn like a real human, not like a xkcd stick figure) and finally the front of the face is a bird with its eyes and a beak shown. The labels are given here in the order of the segment of the animal from the back to the front (disregarding weather the label is written above or below the animal:]
:Fish
:Lion
:Snake
:Shark
:Bull
:Dragon
:Horse
:Leopard
:Ram
:Human
:Bird

:[Caption below the panel:]
:The Omnitaur

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Biology]]

2653: Omnitaur

2022-08-02T10:46:33Z

172.70.210.145: /* Explanation */ genome chimerism

{{comic
| number = 2653
| date = August 1, 2022
| title = Omnitaur
| image = omnitaur.png
| titletext = "My parents were both omnitaurs, which is how I got interested in recombination," said the normal human.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by AN OMNITAUR-HUMAN HYBRID - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
Omnitaur is an {{w|anagram}} of {{w|minotaur}}, a mythical creature that was part man, part bull. "{{wiktionary|omni}}" is a prefix that means "all" that is, for instance, known from the word {{w|omnivore}}, meaning 'all eating' as compared to {{w|carnivore}} or {{w|herbivore}} (only eating meat or plant respectively). Given the combination of animals used to create the omnitaur, it could be expected that it was also an omnivore.

An "omnitaur" would suggest that it would encompass all real and mythical creatures, or perhaps some random assortment of such. In this instance, it appears to be a hybrid, or {{w|Chimera (genetics)|genetic chimera}}, combined from 11 different creatures: {{w|fish}}, {{w|lion}}, {{w|snake}}, {{w|shark}} (also a fish), {{w|bull}}, {{w|dragon}} (a mythical creature in its own right), {{w|horse}}, {{w|leopard}}, {{w|Sheep|ram}} (male sheep), {{w|human}} and {{w|bird}}. Chimerism is not uncommon at the genetic level, for example the human genome may have 145 genes originating from bacteria, other single-celled organisms, and viruses,[https://www.science.org/content/article/humans-may-harbor-more-100-genes-other-organisms] but chimeras of larger organisms are rare.

The title text is a comment by a human whose parents were both omnitaurs. It would be strange that such parents would not produce offspring that was still omnitaur. It suggests that this may be the result of {{w|genetic recombination}}, which is the exchange of genetic material between different organisms leading to production of offspring with combinations of traits that differ from those found in either parent. In this case, seemingly, they inherited ''only'' the human elements of each parent, yet sufficient to develop into a whole human with no missing or chimeric elements. Since we don't understand omnitaur genetics, we can't evaluate whether that is even plausible.

===Mythological phenotypical chimeras===

In addition to the minotaur, many other potential inspirations can be found in mythology, like the {{w|centaur}}, which has the upper body of a human and the lower body and legs of a horse; the {{w|manticore}}, with a body of a lion and human face; a {{w|griffin}}, with a lion's body and a eagle's head; a {{w|mermaid}}, with a lower body of a fish and upper body of a human; a {{w|Hippocampus (mythology)|hippocampus}}, with the upper body of a horse and a lower body of a fish; a {{w|qilin}}, with a body that resembles both a horse and a dragon; or the mythological {{w|chimera (mythology)|chimera}}, for which the genetic chimera is named, which has lion, snake, and goat body parts. Ultimately, there are {{w|List of hybrid creatures in folklore|lots of hybrid creatures in mythology}} with {{w|phenotype}}s combined from multiple animals. Usually, genetic hybridization produces much more smoothly blended phenotypes instead of dividing the body into large distinctly chimeric regions.

===Speculative implications===

In {{w|C. S. Lewis}}' {{w|The Chronicles of Narnia}}, the {{w|Magical_creatures_in_The_Chronicles_of_Narnia#Centaurs|centaurs}} are depicted eating two meals - a huge roast meal "to satisfy the man stomach," and a meal of grass, "to satisfy the horse stomach," making it take quite some time for them to eat every morning. Since the omnitaur also has herbivore and omnivore (as well as carnivore) parts, this could further support the supposition that it is an omnivore, and it may similarly need multiple stomachs for these multiple appetites. It is unclear how compatible the various diets of its components would be (not least because 'fish,' 'snake' and 'bird' are quite unspecific, and it's hard to know what a dragon would eat) but it would likely need several meals, taking even longer to eat than the Centaur (plus the bird beak may slow the process down quite a bit.)

Since the example depicted seems to be only 1/11 human, the odds of two parents as mentioned in the title text getting a fully human offspring would simplistically appear to be (1/11)11, or one chance in 285 billion. In reality, each physical part could not be the result of an equal genetic contribution, because the eleven animal chromosomes vary widely in number and size. If omnitaur genetics were governed by such principles, it would be hard to explain how a creature consisting of 11 different animals came into existence in the first place.{{cn}}

==Transcript==
:[A creature, the Omnitaur, is shown. It is a four legged animal divided into 11 segments, each segment is from a different animal. An arrow goes to each section from a label, most of the labels are above the animal, but the fourth and seventh segments labels are below the animal. The animal has a fish tail and cat like hind legs. The torso is divided into four segments, the first and last of these with scales, but only the last of these also with sharp scales at the top. The second torso segment is white and smooth, the third also white but with hair both above and below, those above merges with the sharp scales of the fourth torso segment. The front legs are horse like, the lower neck is from an animal with dark spots, the upper neck has rams horns, which goes over in the central part of a human head, with ears and hair (drawn like a real human, not like a xkcd stick figure) and finally the front of the face is a bird with its eyes and a beak shown. The labels are given here in the order of the segment of the animal from the back to the front (disregarding weather the label is written above or below the animal:]
:Fish
:Lion
:Snake
:Shark
:Bull
:Dragon
:Horse
:Leopard
:Ram
:Human
:Bird

:[Caption below the panel:]
:The Omnitaur

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Biology]]

2653: Omnitaur

2022-08-02T10:09:36Z

172.70.210.145: /* Speculative implications */ punctuation

{{comic
| number = 2653
| date = August 1, 2022
| title = Omnitaur
| image = omnitaur.png
| titletext = "My parents were both omnitaurs, which is how I got interested in recombination," said the normal human.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by AN OMNITAUR-HUMAN HYBRID - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
Omnitaur is an {{w|anagram}} of {{w|minotaur}}, a mythical creature that was part man, part bull. "{{wiktionary|omni}}" is a prefix that means "all". The word is, for instance, known from the word {{w|omnivore}}, meaning 'all eating' as compared to {{w|carnivore}} or {{w|herbivore}} (only eating meat or plant respectively). Given the combination of animals used to create the omnitaur, it could be expected that it was also an omnivore.

An "omnitaur" would suggest that it would encompass all real and mythical creatures, or perhaps some random assortment of such. In this instance, it appears to be a hybrid, or {{w|Chimera (genetics)|genetic chimera}}, combined from 11 different creatures: {{w|fish}}, {{w|lion}}, {{w|snake}}, {{w|shark}} (also a fish), {{w|bull}}, {{w|dragon}} (a mythical creature in its own right), {{w|horse}}, {{w|leopard}}, {{w|Sheep|ram}} (male sheep), {{w|human}} and {{w|bird}}.

The title text is a comment by a human whose parents were both omnitaurs. It would be strange that such parents would not produce offspring that was still omnitaur. It suggests that this may be the result of {{w|genetic recombination}}, which is the exchange of genetic material between different organisms leading to production of offspring with combinations of traits that differ from those found in either parent. Since we don't understand omnitaur genetics, we can't evaluate whether that is plausible.

===Mythological phenotypical chimeras===

In addition to the minotaur, many other potential inspirations can be found in mythology, like the {{w|centaur}}, which has the upper body of a human and the lower body and legs of a horse; the {{w|manticore}}, with a body of a lion and human face; a {{w|griffin}}, with a lion's body and a eagle's head; a {{w|mermaid}}, with a lower body of a fish and upper body of a human; a {{w|Hippocampus (mythology)|hippocampus}}, with the upper body of a horse and a lower body of a fish; a {{w|qilin}}, with a body that resembles both a horse and a dragon; or the mythological {{w|chimera (mythology)|chimera}}, for which the genetic chimera is named, which has lion, snake, and goat body parts. Ultimately, there are {{w|List of hybrid creatures in folklore|lots of hybrid creatures in mythology}} with {{w|phenotype}}s combined from multiple animals. Usually, genetic hybridization produces much more smoothly blended phenotypes instead of dividing the body into large distinctly chimeric regions.

===Speculative implications===

In {{w|C. S. Lewis}}' {{w|The Chronicles of Narnia}}, the {{w|Magical_creatures_in_The_Chronicles_of_Narnia#Centaurs|centaurs}} are depicted eating two meals - a huge roast meal "to satisfy the man stomach," and a meal of grass, "to satisfy the horse stomach," making it take quite some time for them to eat every morning. Since the omnitaur also has herbivore and omnivore (as well as carnivore) parts, this could further support the supposition that it is an omnivore, and it may similarly need multiple stomachs for these multiple appetites. It is unclear how compatible the various diets of its components would be (not least because 'fish,' 'snake' and 'bird' are quite unspecific, and it's hard to know what a dragon would eat) but it would likely need several meals, taking even longer to eat than the Centaur (plus the bird beak may slow the process down quite a bit.)

Since the example depicted seems to be only 1/11 human, the odds of two parents as mentioned in the title text getting a fully human offspring would simplistically (assuming that each physical part is the result of an equal genetic contribution, which isn't really how genetics works) appear to be 1/11 × 1/11 = 1/121, or 0.83%, if it was simply a matter of such math. Of course if it worked like that, it would be hard to explain how a creature consisting of 11 different animals came into existence in the first place.{{cn}}

==Transcript==
:[A creature, the Omnitaur, is shown. It is a four legged animal divided into 11 segments, each segment is from a different animal. An arrow goes to each section from a label, most of the labels are above the animal, but the fourth and seventh segments labels are below the animal. The animal has a fish tail and cat like hind legs. The torso is divided into four segments, the first and last of these with scales, but only the last of these also with sharp scales at the top. The second torso segment is white and smooth, the third also white but with hair both above and below, those above merges with the sharp scales of the fourth torso segment. The front legs are horse like, the lower neck is from an animal with dark spots, the upper neck has rams horns, which goes over in the central part of a human head, with ears and hair (drawn like a real human, not like a xkcd stick figure) and finally the front of the face is a bird with its eyes and a beak shown. The labels are given here in the order of the segment of the animal from the back to the front (disregarding weather the label is written above or below the animal:]
:Fish
:Lion
:Snake
:Shark
:Bull
:Dragon
:Horse
:Leopard
:Ram
:Human
:Bird

:[Caption below the panel:]
:The Omnitaur

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Biology]]

2653: Omnitaur

2022-08-02T10:07:15Z

172.70.210.145: /* Mythological phenotypical chimeras */ explain better

{{comic
| number = 2653
| date = August 1, 2022
| title = Omnitaur
| image = omnitaur.png
| titletext = "My parents were both omnitaurs, which is how I got interested in recombination," said the normal human.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by AN OMNITAUR-HUMAN HYBRID - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
Omnitaur is an {{w|anagram}} of {{w|minotaur}}, a mythical creature that was part man, part bull. "{{wiktionary|omni}}" is a prefix that means "all". The word is, for instance, known from the word {{w|omnivore}}, meaning 'all eating' as compared to {{w|carnivore}} or {{w|herbivore}} (only eating meat or plant respectively). Given the combination of animals used to create the omnitaur, it could be expected that it was also an omnivore.

An "omnitaur" would suggest that it would encompass all real and mythical creatures, or perhaps some random assortment of such. In this instance, it appears to be a hybrid, or {{w|Chimera (genetics)|genetic chimera}}, combined from 11 different creatures: {{w|fish}}, {{w|lion}}, {{w|snake}}, {{w|shark}} (also a fish), {{w|bull}}, {{w|dragon}} (a mythical creature in its own right), {{w|horse}}, {{w|leopard}}, {{w|Sheep|ram}} (male sheep), {{w|human}} and {{w|bird}}.

The title text is a comment by a human whose parents were both omnitaurs. It would be strange that such parents would not produce offspring that was still omnitaur. It suggests that this may be the result of {{w|genetic recombination}}, which is the exchange of genetic material between different organisms leading to production of offspring with combinations of traits that differ from those found in either parent. Since we don't understand omnitaur genetics, we can't evaluate whether that is plausible.

===Mythological phenotypical chimeras===

In addition to the minotaur, many other potential inspirations can be found in mythology, like the {{w|centaur}}, which has the upper body of a human and the lower body and legs of a horse; the {{w|manticore}}, with a body of a lion and human face; a {{w|griffin}}, with a lion's body and a eagle's head; a {{w|mermaid}}, with a lower body of a fish and upper body of a human; a {{w|Hippocampus (mythology)|hippocampus}}, with the upper body of a horse and a lower body of a fish; a {{w|qilin}}, with a body that resembles both a horse and a dragon; or the mythological {{w|chimera (mythology)|chimera}}, for which the genetic chimera is named, which has lion, snake, and goat body parts. Ultimately, there are {{w|List of hybrid creatures in folklore|lots of hybrid creatures in mythology}} with {{w|phenotype}}s combined from multiple animals. Usually, genetic hybridization produces much more smoothly blended phenotypes instead of dividing the body into large distinctly chimeric regions.

===Speculative implications===

In {{w|C. S. Lewis}}' {{w|The Chronicles of Narnia}}, the {{w|Magical_creatures_in_The_Chronicles_of_Narnia#Centaurs|centaurs}} are depicted eating two meals - a huge roast meal "to satisfy the man stomach" and a meal of grass "to satisfy the horse stomach", making it take quite some time for them to eat every morning. Since the omnitaur also has herbivore and omnivore (as well as carnivore) parts, this could further support the supposition that it is an omnivore, and it may similarly need multiple stomachs for these multiple appetites. It is unclear how compatible the various diets of its components would be (not least because 'fish', 'snake' and 'bird' are quite unspecific, and it's hard to know what a dragon would eat), but it would likely need several meals, taking even longer to eat than the Centaur (plus the bird beak may slow the process down quite a bit).

Since the example depicted seems to be only 1/11 human, the odds of two parents as mentioned in the title text getting a fully human offspring would simplistically (assuming that each physical part is the result of an equal genetic contribution, which isn't really how genetics works) appear to be 1/11 × 1/11 = 1/121, or 0.83%, if it was simply a matter of such math. Of course if it worked like that, it would be hard to explain how a creature consisting of 11 different animals came into existence in the first place.{{cn}}

==Transcript==
:[A creature, the Omnitaur, is shown. It is a four legged animal divided into 11 segments, each segment is from a different animal. An arrow goes to each section from a label, most of the labels are above the animal, but the fourth and seventh segments labels are below the animal. The animal has a fish tail and cat like hind legs. The torso is divided into four segments, the first and last of these with scales, but only the last of these also with sharp scales at the top. The second torso segment is white and smooth, the third also white but with hair both above and below, those above merges with the sharp scales of the fourth torso segment. The front legs are horse like, the lower neck is from an animal with dark spots, the upper neck has rams horns, which goes over in the central part of a human head, with ears and hair (drawn like a real human, not like a xkcd stick figure) and finally the front of the face is a bird with its eyes and a beak shown. The labels are given here in the order of the segment of the animal from the back to the front (disregarding weather the label is written above or below the animal:]
:Fish
:Lion
:Snake
:Shark
:Bull
:Dragon
:Horse
:Leopard
:Ram
:Human
:Bird

:[Caption below the panel:]
:The Omnitaur

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Biology]]

2653: Omnitaur

2022-08-02T09:55:25Z

172.70.210.145: /* Mythological phenotypical chimeras */ better section title

{{comic
| number = 2653
| date = August 1, 2022
| title = Omnitaur
| image = omnitaur.png
| titletext = "My parents were both omnitaurs, which is how I got interested in recombination," said the normal human.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by AN OMNITAUR-HUMAN HYBRID - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
Omnitaur is an {{w|anagram}} of {{w|minotaur}}, a mythical creature that was part man, part bull. "{{wiktionary|omni}}" is a prefix that means "all". The word is, for instance, known from the word {{w|omnivore}}, meaning 'all eating' as compared to {{w|carnivore}} or {{w|herbivore}} (only eating meat or plant respectively). Given the combination of animals used to create the omnitaur, it could be expected that it was also an omnivore.

An "omnitaur" would suggest that it would encompass all real and mythical creatures, or perhaps some random assortment of such. In this instance, it appears to be a hybrid, or {{w|Chimera (genetics)|genetic chimera}}, combined from 11 different creatures: {{w|fish}}, {{w|lion}}, {{w|snake}}, {{w|shark}} (also a fish), {{w|bull}}, {{w|dragon}} (a mythical creature in its own right), {{w|horse}}, {{w|leopard}}, {{w|Sheep|ram}} (male sheep), {{w|human}} and {{w|bird}}.

The title text is a comment by a human whose parents were both omnitaurs. It would be strange that such parents would not produce offspring that was still omnitaur. It suggests that this may be the result of {{w|genetic recombination}}, which is the exchange of genetic material between different organisms leading to production of offspring with combinations of traits that differ from those found in either parent. Since we don't understand omnitaur genetics, we can't evaluate whether that is plausible.

===Mythological phenotypical chimeras===

In addition to the minotaur, many other potential inspirations can be found in mythology, like the {{w|centaur}}, which has the upper body of a human and the lower body and legs of a horse; the {{w|manticore}}, with a body of a lion and human face; a {{w|griffin}}, with a lion's body and a eagle's head; a {{w|mermaid}}, with a lower body of a fish and upper body of a human; a {{w|Hippocampus (mythology)|hippocampus}}, with the upper body of a horse and a lower body of a fish; a {{w|qilin}}, with a body that resembles both a horse and a dragon; or the mythological {{w|chimera (mythology)|chimera}}, for which the genetic chimera is named, which has lion, snake, and goat body parts. Ultimately, there are {{w|List of hybrid creatures in folklore|lots of hybrid creatures in mythology}}, so without word from [[Randall]] you're free to make your own conclusions.

===Speculative implications===

In {{w|C. S. Lewis}}' {{w|The Chronicles of Narnia}}, the {{w|Magical_creatures_in_The_Chronicles_of_Narnia#Centaurs|centaurs}} are depicted eating two meals - a huge roast meal "to satisfy the man stomach" and a meal of grass "to satisfy the horse stomach", making it take quite some time for them to eat every morning. Since the omnitaur also has herbivore and omnivore (as well as carnivore) parts, this could further support the supposition that it is an omnivore, and it may similarly need multiple stomachs for these multiple appetites. It is unclear how compatible the various diets of its components would be (not least because 'fish', 'snake' and 'bird' are quite unspecific, and it's hard to know what a dragon would eat), but it would likely need several meals, taking even longer to eat than the Centaur (plus the bird beak may slow the process down quite a bit).

Since the example depicted seems to be only 1/11 human, the odds of two parents as mentioned in the title text getting a fully human offspring would simplistically (assuming that each physical part is the result of an equal genetic contribution, which isn't really how genetics works) appear to be 1/11 x 1/11 = 1/121, if it was simply a matter of the math. Of course if it worked like that, it would be hard to explain how a creature consisting of 11 different animals came into existence in the first place.{{cn}}

==Transcript==
:[A creature, the Omnitaur, is shown. It is a four legged animal divided into 11 segments, each segment is from a different animal. An arrow goes to each section from a label, most of the labels are above the animal, but the fourth and seventh segments labels are below the animal. The animal has a fish tail and cat like hind legs. The torso is divided into four segments, the first and last of these with scales, but only the last of these also with sharp scales at the top. The second torso segment is white and smooth, the third also white but with hair both above and below, those above merges with the sharp scales of the fourth torso segment. The front legs are horse like, the lower neck is from an animal with dark spots, the upper neck has rams horns, which goes over in the central part of a human head, with ears and hair (drawn like a real human, not like a xkcd stick figure) and finally the front of the face is a bird with its eyes and a beak shown. The labels are given here in the order of the segment of the animal from the back to the front (disregarding weather the label is written above or below the animal:]
:Fish
:Lion
:Snake
:Shark
:Bull
:Dragon
:Horse
:Leopard
:Ram
:Human
:Bird

:[Caption below the panel:]
:The Omnitaur

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Biology]]

2653: Omnitaur

2022-08-02T03:53:15Z

172.70.210.145: /* Explanation */ link

{{comic
| number = 2653
| date = August 1, 2022
| title = Omnitaur
| image = omnitaur.png
| titletext = "My parents were both omnitaurs, which is how I got interested in recombination," said the normal human.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by AN OMNITAUR-HUMAN HYBRID - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

Omnitaur is an {{w|anagram}} of {{w|minotaur}}, a mythical creature that was part man, part bull. "{{wiktionary|omni}}" is a prefix that means "all".

An "omnitaur" appears to be a hybrid or {{w|Chimera (genetics)|chimera}} of 11 different creatures: a fish, lion, snake, shark, bull, dragon, horse, leopard, ram, human, and bird. This new creature may be inspired by the mythological {{w|centaur}}, which has the upper body of a human and the lower body and legs of a horse; or by the {{w|minotaur}}, which has the head and tail of a bull and the body of a man.

The title text references {{w|genetic recombination}}, claimed to describe how omnitaur parents could have ordinary human offspring. Since we don't understand omnitaur genetics, we can't evaluate whether that is a plausible claim.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Biology]]

Talk:2652: Proxy Variable

2022-08-01T16:44:10Z

172.70.210.145: Rm obsolete draft

Maybe Randall is commenting on this recent article [https://www.nature.com/articles/s43588-022-00281-6 Nature Computational Science: Automated discovery of fundamental variables hidden in experimental data]?
02:10, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
suggested by a proxy editor

Might be tangentially related to the alleged Alzheimer's disease drug Aduhelm, the anti-amyloid therapy, that did show some success in proxy variable (biomarker), but no success at all in curing the disease or its symptoms (no efficacy), but which got accepted with a huge amount of controversy by NDA (which disregarded its advisory committee’s recommendation against approving Aduhelm). --[[User:JakubNarebski|JakubNarebski]] ([[User talk:JakubNarebski|talk]]) 07:32, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
: More relevantly, it came out recently that [https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/7/22/2111914/-Two-decades-of-Alzheimer-s-research-may-be-based-on-deliberate-fraud-that-has-cost-millions-of-lives|the last ~decade and a half of Alzheimer's drug research] is based on monitoring effects in mice on a specific biomarker that ''may not actually exist in humans'', and the initial study was potentially fraudulent. Seems like a damn topical proxy variable to me. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.166.249|162.158.166.249]] 00:56, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
:"It’s not much of a stretch to suggest those amyloids are a primary cause of the associated memory loss and dementia," is the failed proxy hypothesis. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.163|172.69.33.163]] 02:47, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

I removed this paragraph:
:''Proxy variables are of interest to non-scientists as they provide a scientific way to indirectly monitor or improve the complex systems that affect their lives. For example, blood pressure is a causative factor for cardiovascular disease so it can be used as a proxy variable for healthy lifestyle. However, people need to remember that it isn't necessarily the proxy variable alone that is of concern. Atmospheric carbon dioxide is not the only gas released by humanity with global warming potential and other factors affect climate change; and it is not carbon dioxide but the impact of climate change that will cause major social, economic, cultural damage to the future of the planet. ''
because I want to discuss it. The first sentence needs a source, the second and third sentences claim blood pressure is used by non-scientists as a proxy for living a healthy lifestyle, which I'm not sure about on multiple levels, and the fourth and fifth sentences seem like PR for fossil fuel companies. #notallgreenhousegases Nevertheless, I feel as if there are likely one or two good ideas hidden in it. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.95|172.70.206.95]] 16:01, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:I feel like the author doesn't know the work climate scientists go to to avoid using greenhouse gas concentration as a proxy for global warming (all the models of atmospheric water and its forms.) For blood pressure, it's easier to see what was attempted to be gotten at. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 16:37, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::Yes: the ones who dangerously simplify the climate change to "we must stop produce carbon dioxide" are not scientists but politicians. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 16:53, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:Definitely. We don't even KNOW all factors affecting climate change. Still, the link between rising carbon dioxide and temperature looks much more solid that the link between money spent on fighting climate change and levels of carbon dioxide. ... Wait, you didn't wanted to talk about climate did you? :-) (For record, I always though there are much better reasons to stop using fossil fuels than fighting global warming. Recently, for example, the energetic security from geopolitically problematic regions came under lot of attention.) -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 16:46, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::I want to talk about climate. Do you think we will be able to transition to carbon neutral and negative technologies in time to avoid the {{w|Jevons paradox}}? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.185|172.70.214.185]] 17:00, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:::The Jevons Paradox exists if the only forces affecting the consumption of a resource are supply and demand. If you're asking about carbon-neutral/negative technological process making sustainable technologies profitable faster than fossil fuel profits grow, then no, there's no hope even before the Jevons Paradox is considered. But if other options are considered, the Jevons Paradox doesn't really apply. (To take an extreme example: It doesn't matter how fuel-efficient internal combustion engines get, they'll never be the preferred choice if their manufacture is banned.) [[User:GreatWyrmGold|GreatWyrmGold]] ([[User talk:GreatWyrmGold|talk]]) 18:14, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::Only carbon negative technology requires {{w|Carbon-burning_process|5×10^8 K or 50 keV and densities > 3×10^9 kg/m3}}. I think that in the moment we will be using THAT on industrial scale we would be quite desperate. Also, the amount of energy we will need is going to grow unless we reduce population a LOT (like, for example, if all ecological activists would do the carbon responsible thing and commit suicide). Also, more and more of that energy we will need will be specifically electrical energy. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 20:21, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:::We need to remove 38 gigatons per year, which is only 0.7 milligrams per square centimeter of ocean. Think of the mean depth of the ocean: that square centimeter is very tall. From that perspective, isn't this an easy biological solution? That's only 0.5 micrograms per minute, from the full depth of each square centimeter of ocean, right? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.43|172.70.214.43]] 20:47, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::::I'm not sure what is the "this" you talk about but it sounds you are only storing carbon, not removing it. BTW, one of best way to store carbon is to make more highways. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 23:07, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:::::Where on Earth would you ever want to build 38 gigatons of highways per year? By "this" I mean genetically modified {{w|phytoplankton}}; in particular modified by changes to {{w|carbonic anhydrase}} expression. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.81|172.70.214.81]] 23:13, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::::::Are there enough dissolved minerals in the ocean for that volume, assuming {{w|diatom}}s intended to sink to the seabed? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.134|172.70.211.134]] 09:35, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
::: The 'carbon responsible' thing to do would be for the 'ecological activists' to assassinate the people with the most polluting lifestyles, rather than committing suicide. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.147|172.70.162.147]] 08:47, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
:::: Only if this can be achieved with entirely renewable means... Or offset whatever part of their efforts (like launching the orbital solar reflector, then burning their target to a crisp) cannot be considered entirely unpolluting. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.221|172.70.85.221]] 09:06, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
:Everyone thinks this is about pharmacology, and maybe it is. But I've been taking economics courses this semester, so that's what I think of. "We can't measure this factor directly, so we made up a formula that should let us calculate it (if we've measured all relevant factors correctly and all our other assumptions and theories are valid)" is a pretty common thing in that field. [[User:GreatWyrmGold|GreatWyrmGold]] ([[User talk:GreatWyrmGold|talk]]) 18:14, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:: What's the best example, using GDP as a proxy for development? Or something current like using the money supply as a proxy for inflation? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.95|172.70.214.95]] 20:19, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

:This is the remainder from below, apparently objected to:
::''Proxy variables are of interest to non-scientists as they provide a way to indirectly monitor or improve the complex systems that affect their lives. For example, people use local temperature as a rough experiential proxy for the severity of global warming. Economists might mistake GDP for productive or useful development, or mistake the size of the {{w|money supply}} for {{w|price inflation}}. While correlated, the causation implied by such assumptions is very much in doubt, because the GDP increase of demolishing a hospital might conflict with the widespread understanding of development, and while the money supply size is a cause of inflation, there are many other causes.''
:But it's different from the original. Regardless of what my IP address may or may not suggest, I know the original objector to the earliest version does not object to this edited version, because that objector was and is me. However, I have not yet decided whether I think it should be in the explanation. I will let you know when it gets off the main page, like tomorrow, roughly in a day unless Monday morning continues its traditional trend of presenting unexpected immediate commitments. I have to run a long errand tomorrow so let's say Tuesdayish.
:My initial impulse is to add another paragraph from the climate discussion above, and propose it for a subsection or collapse box. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.81|172.70.214.81]] 14:35, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
::How about inserting: "The rate and conditions of {{w|carbonic anhydrase}} expression in genetically modified {{w|phytoplankton}}, such as {{w|diatom}}s intended to sink to the seabed, could be one of many partial proxies for carbon negative direct ocean removal. However, {{w|geoengineering}} success is difficult to measure, and harder to predict, because sometimes even small biological changes in one organism, like modulation of a gene, can have wide-ranging ecosystem effects."
::Not sure where the paragraph break should be. If two paragraphs, try appending a subsection; if one, try the collapse box before the first title text paragraph. If people could contribute other interesting examples of proxies for carbon removal (I remember reading about a desalination process?) that would be awesome. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.43|172.70.214.43]] 14:53, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
::: I'm not sure if you can use proportion of renewables, because of Jevons paradox. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 14:59, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
::: ... We could do {{w|Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis}} application rate as a proxy for {{w|mosquito abatement}} to carry the ecology theme. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.207.8|172.70.207.8]] 15:08, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

::: I have questions about the phytoplankton stuff. Is it true that completely carbon negative sequestration could be accomplished with 0.5 micrograms per minute (carbon or carbonate) for each square centimeter of ocean? How can the innoculator be sure the strain is viable but not destructive? Are there any {{w|synthetic biology}} proposals for new carbonate diatoms? Can you guarantee sufficient sinking buoyancy from carbonates alone, or is silicon necessary for sequestration? Won't ocean bottom-feeders or e.g. whales just eat the phytoplankton and return it to the ocean and atmosphere when they die? (There could be worse carbon removal solutions than those providing extra whale food, but I fear keeping it unpalatable to bottom-feeders would require making it hazardous for other ocean life. What was the desalination ocean carbon removal proposal?) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 15:47, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
:::: Desalination plus carbon capture: [https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B73LgocyHQnfV1Q4VE45RmFFeFlPSDlKalctVS1nRlYyY3lR/view?usp=sharing&resourcekey=0-3YeR9jAkROsI0YLf4_07GQ] or [https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B73LgocyHQnfQ0lKOTFuWElQaFk/view?usp=sharing&resourcekey=0-2_EmUy2f7XGIvs6hpeaJdg] or [https://drive.google.com/file/d/14igVdhaIhrbHVTN5lI3XfxgNWPsvjNa7] or [https://i.imgur.com/K6j87Lp.png] or [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1750583617304322]. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.9|172.69.33.9]] 16:33, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
::::: Is the amount desalinated a good proxy for the mass of carbon sequestered? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.34.50|172.69.34.50]] 19:44, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
::::: If you have to fund it by selling the captured carbonate as hydrocarbon fuel, then it's carbon neutral, not carbon negative. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 20:02, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

;this dude keeps spamming

Sorry for the mild crassness, especially as a new user, but some Nazi f*ck is vandalizing the page. May someone please ban them?{{unsigned ip|172.71.26.59|03:49, 30 July 2022}}

Nah, they're using multiple IPs. Someone could semi-protect it or something but there ain't any mods doing their job it seems.{{unsigned ip|172.70.147.47|03:55, 30 July 2022}}

Where are the mods, anyways?{{unsigned ip|172.71.82.65|03:59, 30 July 2022}}
:You can't always count on volunteer authorities. Even us lowly IP address editors can revert vandalism. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.199|172.69.33.199]] 04:09, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::Yeah nah, we need it semi-protected {{unsigned ip|162.158.162.199|04:13, 30 July 2022}}
::: Funny if that were the goal of the vandalism. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.95|172.70.206.95]] 16:03, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:::: One reason that I don't think it should be the go-to counter-vandalism approach being used. But not for me to say. Whilstsoever I'm capable of intervening ''at least'' as much as any vandal tries to, I support the mod actions (they are there, doing things, BTW).
:::: Without actually tolerating the vandal, we easily outnumber the person concerned (and the very few other spammers/bots that sneak through the clearly effective existing speedbumps) and this means that such nuisance edits are heavily mitigated. If you see the damaged bits then you're either a regular or a very unlucky occasional visitor.
:::: (This morning, I went to revert an ad-spam that I noted had been written over a page-redirect, to be told that someone else had just gotten there before me!)
:::: I've been on far more abused online resources, both web (early days, long before CAPTCHA technology) and elsewhere (having seen how Usenet was both before and after The Eternal September) and the interference here is extraordinarily given the generally open nature of the submission process.
:::: PS. Please do sign your posts ( with <code><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></code> ), if only for the timestamp that makes the to and fro of conversations more understandable... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.221|162.158.34.221]] 19:01, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:The rant gets replaced within two minutes of each revert. Presumably it's done by bot. We need a mod to take action. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.130.217|172.70.130.217]] 05:15, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
Article has been restored but some idiots keep spamming the page with random things. pls do something mods {{unsigned ip|172.70.147.47|03:59, 30 July 2022}}
:it's not "some idiots" it's all one person using different ips. he posted the exact same covid rant several times. i think he's schizophrenic or something and just really wants to be heard --[[Special:Contributions/172.69.69.40|172.69.69.40]] 04:39, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::But why here? Like, this is such a weird place to try and be heard, I'm sure even Reddit posts would have more visibility than edits to a webcomic wiki. [[User:NErDysprosium|NErDysprosium]] ([[User talk:NErDysprosium|talk]]) 06:06, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::: Don't underestimate the importance of the can't-get-jokes demographic for PSYOP recruitment. The invasion of Panama might not even have occurred if it weren't for people distracted by cartoons. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.185|172.69.33.185]] 17:16, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:As one of the admin I can say that I only come here when I have time. Also I'm not as technically skilled as some of the others. But we all just do this as a hobby. At least we are now some active admins, after several years with none... I was just made admin recently. But I can see that both Theusa and Davidy22 has been active, and that Theusa has made some changes to his bot so it also can revert spam. Hope that helps. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:57, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

[https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2652:_Proxy_Variable&diff=291433&oldid=291400 The protected version has much less text than the last non-vandalized version.] [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 20:02, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
: Re "The history of pharmaceutical research is largely a graveyard of failed proxy hypotheses." True, but someone should add that is the reason for experiment registration regulations. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.145|172.70.210.145]] 20:17, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:: I'm placing that version here, in hopes that it can be edited as a proxy for the protected version: [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.229|172.69.33.229]] 20:28, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
{{cot|Mostly approved (see above) non-vandalized version of the explanation, as further edited}}
[Superceded draft removed]
{{cob}}
:That such improvements are withheld from the main public view must feel like a victory for the vandal. Can autoconfimed users promote it? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.145|172.70.210.145]] 23:08, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::I have added the above except the "Proxy variables are of interest to non-scientists" part as there was someone explaining why this was removed above here. I will thus not be the one putting it back in.--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:57, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

Is anyone going to comment that all of us IP editors are listed by our CDN proxy address? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.123|172.69.33.123]] 20:44, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

Talk:2652: Proxy Variable

2022-07-30T23:09:34Z

172.70.210.145: Typo

Maybe Randall is commenting on this recent article [https://www.nature.com/articles/s43588-022-00281-6 Nature Computational Science: Automated discovery of fundamental variables hidden in experimental data]?
02:10, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
suggested by a proxy editor

Might be tangentially related to the alleged Alzheimer's disease drug Aduhelm, the anti-amyloid therapy, that did show some success in proxy variable (biomarker), but no success at all in curing the disease or its symptoms (no efficacy), but which got accepted with a huge amount of controversy by NDA (which disregarded its advisory committee’s recommendation against approving Aduhelm). --[[User:JakubNarebski|JakubNarebski]] ([[User talk:JakubNarebski|talk]]) 07:32, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

I removed this paragraph:
:''Proxy variables are of interest to non-scientists as they provide a scientific way to indirectly monitor or improve the complex systems that affect their lives. For example, blood pressure is a causative factor for cardiovascular disease so it can be used as a proxy variable for healthy lifestyle. However, people need to remember that it isn't necessarily the proxy variable alone that is of concern. Atmospheric carbon dioxide is not the only gas released by humanity with global warming potential and other factors affect climate change; and it is not carbon dioxide but the impact of climate change that will cause major social, economic, cultural damage to the future of the planet. ''
because I want to discuss it. The first sentence needs a source, the second and third sentences claim blood pressure is used by non-scientists as a proxy for living a healthy lifestyle, which I'm not sure about on multiple levels, and the fourth and fifth sentences seem like PR for fossil fuel companies. #notallgreenhousegases Nevertheless, I feel as if there are likely one or two good ideas hidden in it. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.95|172.70.206.95]] 16:01, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:I feel like the author doesn't know the work climate scientists go to to avoid using greenhouse gas concentration as a proxy for global warming (all the models of atmospheric water and its forms.) For blood pressure, it's easier to see what was attempted to be gotten at. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 16:37, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::Yes: the ones who dangerously simplify the climate change to "we must stop produce carbon dioxide" are not scientists but politicians. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 16:53, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:Definitely. We don't even KNOW all factors affecting climate change. Still, the link between rising carbon dioxide and temperature looks much more solid that the link between money spent on fighting climate change and levels of carbon dioxide. ... Wait, you didn't wanted to talk about climate did you? :-) (For record, I always though there are much better reasons to stop using fossil fuels than fighting global warming. Recently, for example, the energetic security from geopolitically problematic regions came under lot of attention.) -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 16:46, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::I want to talk about climate. Do you think we will be able to transition to carbon neutral and negative technologies in time to avoid the {{w|Jevons paradox}}? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.185|172.70.214.185]] 17:00, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:::The Jevons Paradox exists if the only forces affecting the consumption of a resource are supply and demand. If you're asking about carbon-neutral/negative technological process making sustainable technologies profitable faster than fossil fuel profits grow, then no, there's no hope even before the Jevons Paradox is considered. But if other options are considered, the Jevons Paradox doesn't really apply. (To take an extreme example: It doesn't matter how fuel-efficient internal combustion engines get, they'll never be the preferred choice if their manufacture is banned.) [[User:GreatWyrmGold|GreatWyrmGold]] ([[User talk:GreatWyrmGold|talk]]) 18:14, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::Only carbon negative technology requires {{w|Carbon-burning_process|5×10^8 K or 50 keV and densities > 3×10^9 kg/m3}}. I think that in the moment we will be using THAT on industrial scale we would be quite desperate. Also, the amount of energy we will need is going to grow unless we reduce population a LOT (like, for example, if all ecological activists would do the carbon responsible thing and commit suicide). Also, more and more of that energy we will need will be specifically electrical energy. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 20:21, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:::We need to remove 38 gigatons per year, which is only 0.7 milligrams per square centimeter of ocean. Think of the mean depth of the ocean: that square centimeter is very tall. From that perspective, isn't this an easy biological solution? That's only 0.5 micrograms per minute, from the full depth of each square centimeter of ocean, right? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.43|172.70.214.43]] 20:47, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::::I'm not sure what is the "this" you talk about but it sounds you are only storing carbon, not removing it. BTW, one of best way to store carbon is to make more highways. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 23:07, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

:Everyone thinks this is about pharmacology, and maybe it is. But I've been taking economics courses this semester, so that's what I think of. "We can't measure this factor directly, so we made up a formula that should let us calculate it (if we've measured all relevant factors correctly and all our other assumptions and theories are valid)" is a pretty common thing in that field. [[User:GreatWyrmGold|GreatWyrmGold]] ([[User talk:GreatWyrmGold|talk]]) 18:14, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:: What's the best example, using GDP as a proxy for development? Or something current like using the money supply as a proxy for inflation? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.95|172.70.214.95]] 20:19, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

== this dude keeps spamming ==

Sorry for the mild crassness, especially as a new user, but some Nazi f*ck is vandalizing the page. May someone please ban them?{{unsigned ip|172.71.26.59|03:49, 30 July 2022}}

Nah, they're using multiple IPs. Someone could semi-protect it or something but there ain't any mods doing their job it seems.{{unsigned ip|172.70.147.47|03:55, 30 July 2022}}

Where are the mods, anyways?{{unsigned ip|172.71.82.65|03:59, 30 July 2022}}
:You can't always count on volunteer authorities. Even us lowly IP address editors can revert vandalism. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.199|172.69.33.199]] 04:09, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::Yeah nah, we need it semi-protected {{unsigned ip|162.158.162.199|04:13, 30 July 2022}}
::: Funny if that were the goal of the vandalism. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.95|172.70.206.95]] 16:03, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:::: One reason that I don't think it should be the go-to counter-vandalism approach being used. But not for me to say. Whilstsoever I'm capable of intervening ''at least'' as much as any vandal tries to, I support the mod actions (they are there, doing things, BTW).
:::: Without actually tolerating the vandal, we easily outnumber the person concerned (and the very few other spammers/bots that sneak through the clearly effective existing speedbumps) and this means that such nuisance edits are heavily mitigated. If you see the damaged bits then you're either a regular or a very unlucky occasional visitor.
:::: (This morning, I went to revert an ad-spam that I noted had been written over a page-redirect, to be told that someone else had just gotten there before me!)
:::: I've been on far more abused online resources, both web (early days, long before CAPTCHA technology) and elsewhere (having seen how Usenet was both before and after The Eternal September) and the interference here is extraordinarily given the generally open nature of the submission process.
:::: PS. Please do sign your posts ( with <code><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></code> ), if only for the timestamp that makes the to and fro of conversations more understandable... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.221|162.158.34.221]] 19:01, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

:The rant gets replaced within two minutes of each revert. Presumably it's done by bot. We need a mod to take action. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.130.217|172.70.130.217]] 05:15, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
Article has been restored but some idiots keep spamming the page with random things. pls do something mods {{unsigned ip|172.70.147.47|03:59, 30 July 2022}}
:it's not "some idiots" it's all one person using different ips. he posted the exact same covid rant several times. i think he's schizophrenic or something and just really wants to be heard --[[Special:Contributions/172.69.69.40|172.69.69.40]] 04:39, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::But why here? Like, this is such a weird place to try and be heard, I'm sure even Reddit posts would have more visibility than edits to a webcomic wiki. [[User:NErDysprosium|NErDysprosium]] ([[User talk:NErDysprosium|talk]]) 06:06, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::: Don't underestimate the importance of the can't-get-jokes demographic for PSYOP recruitment. The invasion of Panama might not even have occurred if it weren't for people distracted by cartoons. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.185|172.69.33.185]] 17:16, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

[https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2652:_Proxy_Variable&diff=291433&oldid=291400 The protected version has much less text than the last non-vandalized version.] [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 20:02, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
: Re "The history of pharmaceutical research is largely a graveyard of failed proxy hypotheses." True, but someone should add that is the reason for experiment registration regulations. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.145|172.70.210.145]] 20:17, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:: I'm placing that version here, in hopes that it can be edited as a proxy for the protected version: [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.229|172.69.33.229]] 20:28, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
{{cot|Last non-vandalized version of the explanation, as further edited}}
In this comic, [[Hairy]] is discussing use of a proxy variable with [[Cueball]]. In statistics, a {{w|proxy variable}} is used as a stand-in for one or more other variables that are difficult to measure. In order to be useful as such, proxy variables must be correlated with what they are intended to represent. For example, a drug might aim to reduce deaths from a slow-acting disease. But testing if it reduces deaths might take many years, so researchers might test for a proxy outcome instead, like whether it results in loss of bone density or damage to cells. Physicians use blood pressure as one of many proxies for cardiovascular health.

Proxy variables are of interest to non-scientists as they provide a way to indirectly monitor or improve the complex systems that affect their lives. For example, people use local temperature as a rough experiential proxy for the severity of global warming. Economists might mistake GDP for productive or useful development, or mistake the size of the {{w|money supply}} for {{w|price inflation}}. While correlated, the causation implied by such assumptions is very much in doubt, because the GDP increase of demolishing a hospital might conflict with the widespread understanding of development, and while the money supply size is a cause of inflation, there are many other causes.

Hairy is dismissing the question of whether they are studying the right variable as too expensive to answer. This is deeply ironic and thus satirical, because good {{w|experiment design}} requires sufficient attention to the robustness of all the involved parts of an experiment, even if the expense may be prohibitive.

Choosing the wrong proxy variable might make the research misleading, irrelevant, or as the title text suggests, answer the wrong question. Separating correlation from {{w|Causality|causation}} is necessary when interpreting proxy variable results to make sure the question they answer is known. Mere correlation instead of {{w|Causal analysis|authentic causation}} yields weaker results. {{w|Exploratory causal analysis}} can assist with finding useful proxy variables, but is difficult for the layperson to interpret and can be misleading, because even if performed correctly, a {{w|combinatorial explosion}} of possible proxy variables can make traditional {{w|statistical significance}} analysis fail, requiring {{w|F-score}}s or similar measures. The history of pharmaceutical research is largely a graveyard of failed proxy hypotheses; that is one of the reasons for [https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/manage-recs/fdaaa experiment registration regulations.]

The title text's notion of having an answer without knowing the actual question could also be be a reference to the classic comedy science fiction novel {{w|The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy|The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy}}, where in one scene Earth turns out to be a supercomputer built for the purpose of figuring out the question for the answer "42."
{{cob}}
:That such improvements are withheld from the main public view must feel like a victory for the vandal. Can autoconfimed users promote it? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.145|172.70.210.145]] 23:08, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

Is anyone going to comment that all of us IP editors are listed by our CDN proxy address? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.123|172.69.33.123]] 20:44, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

Talk:2652: Proxy Variable

2022-07-30T23:08:31Z

172.70.210.145: /* this dude keeps spamming */ respond

Maybe Randall is commenting on this recent article [https://www.nature.com/articles/s43588-022-00281-6 Nature Computational Science: Automated discovery of fundamental variables hidden in experimental data]?
02:10, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
suggested by a proxy editor

Might be tangentially related to the alleged Alzheimer's disease drug Aduhelm, the anti-amyloid therapy, that did show some success in proxy variable (biomarker), but no success at all in curing the disease or its symptoms (no efficacy), but which got accepted with a huge amount of controversy by NDA (which disregarded its advisory committee’s recommendation against approving Aduhelm). --[[User:JakubNarebski|JakubNarebski]] ([[User talk:JakubNarebski|talk]]) 07:32, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

I removed this paragraph:
:''Proxy variables are of interest to non-scientists as they provide a scientific way to indirectly monitor or improve the complex systems that affect their lives. For example, blood pressure is a causative factor for cardiovascular disease so it can be used as a proxy variable for healthy lifestyle. However, people need to remember that it isn't necessarily the proxy variable alone that is of concern. Atmospheric carbon dioxide is not the only gas released by humanity with global warming potential and other factors affect climate change; and it is not carbon dioxide but the impact of climate change that will cause major social, economic, cultural damage to the future of the planet. ''
because I want to discuss it. The first sentence needs a source, the second and third sentences claim blood pressure is used by non-scientists as a proxy for living a healthy lifestyle, which I'm not sure about on multiple levels, and the fourth and fifth sentences seem like PR for fossil fuel companies. #notallgreenhousegases Nevertheless, I feel as if there are likely one or two good ideas hidden in it. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.95|172.70.206.95]] 16:01, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:I feel like the author doesn't know the work climate scientists go to to avoid using greenhouse gas concentration as a proxy for global warming (all the models of atmospheric water and its forms.) For blood pressure, it's easier to see what was attempted to be gotten at. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 16:37, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::Yes: the ones who dangerously simplify the climate change to "we must stop produce carbon dioxide" are not scientists but politicians. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 16:53, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:Definitely. We don't even KNOW all factors affecting climate change. Still, the link between rising carbon dioxide and temperature looks much more solid that the link between money spent on fighting climate change and levels of carbon dioxide. ... Wait, you didn't wanted to talk about climate did you? :-) (For record, I always though there are much better reasons to stop using fossil fuels than fighting global warming. Recently, for example, the energetic security from geopolitically problematic regions came under lot of attention.) -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 16:46, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::I want to talk about climate. Do you think we will be able to transition to carbon neutral and negative technologies in time to avoid the {{w|Jevons paradox}}? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.185|172.70.214.185]] 17:00, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:::The Jevons Paradox exists if the only forces affecting the consumption of a resource are supply and demand. If you're asking about carbon-neutral/negative technological process making sustainable technologies profitable faster than fossil fuel profits grow, then no, there's no hope even before the Jevons Paradox is considered. But if other options are considered, the Jevons Paradox doesn't really apply. (To take an extreme example: It doesn't matter how fuel-efficient internal combustion engines get, they'll never be the preferred choice if their manufacture is banned.) [[User:GreatWyrmGold|GreatWyrmGold]] ([[User talk:GreatWyrmGold|talk]]) 18:14, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::Only carbon negative technology requires {{w|Carbon-burning_process|5×10^8 K or 50 keV and densities > 3×10^9 kg/m3}}. I think that in the moment we will be using THAT on industrial scale we would be quite desperate. Also, the amount of energy we will need is going to grow unless we reduce population a LOT (like, for example, if all ecological activists would do the carbon responsible thing and commit suicide). Also, more and more of that energy we will need will be specifically electrical energy. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 20:21, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:::We need to remove 38 gigatons per year, which is only 0.7 milligrams per square centimeter of ocean. Think of the mean depth of the ocean: that square centimeter is very tall. From that perspective, isn't this an easy biological solution? That's only 0.5 micrograms per minute, from the full depth of each square centimeter of ocean, right? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.43|172.70.214.43]] 20:47, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::::I'm not sure what is the "this" you talk about but it sounds you are only storing carbon, not removing it. BTW, one of best way to store carbon is to make more highways. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 23:07, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

:Everyone thinks this is about pharmacology, and maybe it is. But I've been taking economics courses this semester, so that's what I think of. "We can't measure this factor directly, so we made up a formula that should let us calculate it (if we've measured all relevant factors correctly and all our other assumptions and theories are valid)" is a pretty common thing in that field. [[User:GreatWyrmGold|GreatWyrmGold]] ([[User talk:GreatWyrmGold|talk]]) 18:14, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:: What's the best example, using GDP as a proxy for development? Or something current like using the money supply as a proxy for inflation? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.95|172.70.214.95]] 20:19, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

== this dude keeps spamming ==

Sorry for the mild crassness, especially as a new user, but some Nazi f*ck is vandalizing the page. May someone please ban them?{{unsigned ip|172.71.26.59|03:49, 30 July 2022}}

Nah, they're using multiple IPs. Someone could semi-protect it or something but there ain't any mods doing their job it seems.{{unsigned ip|172.70.147.47|03:55, 30 July 2022}}

Where are the mods, anyways?{{unsigned ip|172.71.82.65|03:59, 30 July 2022}}
:You can't always count on volunteer authorities. Even us lowly IP address editors can revert vandalism. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.199|172.69.33.199]] 04:09, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::Yeah nah, we need it semi-protected {{unsigned ip|162.158.162.199|04:13, 30 July 2022}}
::: Funny if that were the goal of the vandalism. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.95|172.70.206.95]] 16:03, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:::: One reason that I don't think it should be the go-to counter-vandalism approach being used. But not for me to say. Whilstsoever I'm capable of intervening ''at least'' as much as any vandal tries to, I support the mod actions (they are there, doing things, BTW).
:::: Without actually tolerating the vandal, we easily outnumber the person concerned (and the very few other spammers/bots that sneak through the clearly effective existing speedbumps) and this means that such nuisance edits are heavily mitigated. If you see the damaged bits then you're either a regular or a very unlucky occasional visitor.
:::: (This morning, I went to revert an ad-spam that I noted had been written over a page-redirect, to be told that someone else had just gotten there before me!)
:::: I've been on far more abused online resources, both web (early days, long before CAPTCHA technology) and elsewhere (having seen how Usenet was both before and after The Eternal September) and the interference here is extraordinarily given the generally open nature of the submission process.
:::: PS. Please do sign your posts ( with <code><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></code> ), if only for the timestamp that makes the to and fro of conversations more understandable... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.221|162.158.34.221]] 19:01, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

:The rant gets replaced within two minutes of each revert. Presumably it's done by bot. We need a mod to take action. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.130.217|172.70.130.217]] 05:15, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
Article has been restored but some idiots keep spamming the page with random things. pls do something mods {{unsigned ip|172.70.147.47|03:59, 30 July 2022}}
:it's not "some idiots" it's all one person using different ips. he posted the exact same covid rant several times. i think he's schizophrenic or something and just really wants to be heard --[[Special:Contributions/172.69.69.40|172.69.69.40]] 04:39, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::But why here? Like, this is such a weird place to try and be heard, I'm sure even Reddit posts would have more visibility than edits to a webcomic wiki. [[User:NErDysprosium|NErDysprosium]] ([[User talk:NErDysprosium|talk]]) 06:06, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::: Don't underestimate the importance of the can't-get-jokes demographic for PSYOP recruitment. The invasion of Panama might not even have occurred if it weren't for people distracted by cartoons. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.185|172.69.33.185]] 17:16, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

[https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2652:_Proxy_Variable&diff=291433&oldid=291400 The protected version has much less text than the last non-vandalized version.] [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 20:02, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
: Re "The history of pharmaceutical research is largely a graveyard of failed proxy hypotheses." True, but someone should add that is the reason for experiment registration regulations. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.145|172.70.210.145]] 20:17, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:: I'm placing that version here, in hopes that it can be edited as a proxy for the protected version: [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.229|172.69.33.229]] 20:28, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
{{cot|Last non-vandalized version of the explanation, as further edited}}
In this comic, [[Hairy]] is discussing use of a proxy variable with [[Cueball]]. In statistics, a {{w|proxy variable}} is used as a stand-in for one or more other variables that are difficult to measure. In order to be useful as such, proxy variables must be correlated with what they are intended to represent. For example, a drug might aim to reduce deaths from a slow-acting disease. But testing if it reduces deaths might take many years, so researchers might test for a proxy outcome instead, like whether it results in loss of bone density or damage to cells. Physicians use blood pressure as one of many proxies for cardiovascular health.

Proxy variables are of interest to non-scientists as they provide a way to indirectly monitor or improve the complex systems that affect their lives. For example, people use local temperature as a rough experiential proxy for the severity of global warming. Economists might mistake GDP for productive or useful development, or mistake the size of the {{w|money supply}} for {{w|price inflation}}. While correlated, the causation implied by such assumptions is very much in doubt, because the GDP increase of demolishing a hospital might conflict with the widespread understanding of development, and while the money supply size is a cause of inflation, there are many other causes.

Hairy is dismissing the question of whether they are studying the right variable as too expensive to answer. This is deeply ironic and thus satirical, because good {{w|experiment design}} requires sufficient attention to the robustness of all the involved parts of an experiment, even if the expense may be prohibitive.

Choosing the wrong proxy variable might make the research misleading, irrelevant, or as the title text suggests, answer the wrong question. Separating correlation from {{w|Causality|causation}} is necessary when interpreting proxy variable results to make sure the question they answer is known. Mere correlation instead of {{w|Causal analysis|authentic causation}} yields weaker results. {{w|Exploratory causal analysis}} can assist with finding useful proxy variables, but is difficult for the layperson to interpret and can be misleading, because even if performed correctly, a {{w|combinatorial explosion}} of possible proxy variables can make traditional {{w|statistical significance}} analysis fail, requiring {{w|F-score}}s or similar measures. The history of pharmaceutical research is largely a graveyard of failed proxy hypotheses; that is one of the reasons for [https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/manage-recs/fdaaa experiment registration regulations.]

The title text's notion of having an answer without knowing the actual question could also be be a reference to the classic comedy science fiction novel {{w|The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy|The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy}}, where in one scene Earth turns out to be a supercomputer built for the purpose of figuring out the question for the answer "42."
{{cob}}
:That such I improvements are withheld from the main public view must feel like a victory for the vandal. Can autoconfimed users promote it? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.145|172.70.210.145]] 23:08, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

Is anyone going to comment that all of us IP editors are listed by our CDN proxy address? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.123|172.69.33.123]] 20:44, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

Talk:2652: Proxy Variable

2022-07-30T23:05:17Z

172.70.210.145: /* this dude keeps spamming */ plural

Maybe Randall is commenting on this recent article [https://www.nature.com/articles/s43588-022-00281-6 Nature Computational Science: Automated discovery of fundamental variables hidden in experimental data]?
02:10, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
suggested by a proxy editor

Might be tangentially related to the alleged Alzheimer's disease drug Aduhelm, the anti-amyloid therapy, that did show some success in proxy variable (biomarker), but no success at all in curing the disease or its symptoms (no efficacy), but which got accepted with a huge amount of controversy by NDA (which disregarded its advisory committee’s recommendation against approving Aduhelm). --[[User:JakubNarebski|JakubNarebski]] ([[User talk:JakubNarebski|talk]]) 07:32, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

I removed this paragraph:
:''Proxy variables are of interest to non-scientists as they provide a scientific way to indirectly monitor or improve the complex systems that affect their lives. For example, blood pressure is a causative factor for cardiovascular disease so it can be used as a proxy variable for healthy lifestyle. However, people need to remember that it isn't necessarily the proxy variable alone that is of concern. Atmospheric carbon dioxide is not the only gas released by humanity with global warming potential and other factors affect climate change; and it is not carbon dioxide but the impact of climate change that will cause major social, economic, cultural damage to the future of the planet. ''
because I want to discuss it. The first sentence needs a source, the second and third sentences claim blood pressure is used by non-scientists as a proxy for living a healthy lifestyle, which I'm not sure about on multiple levels, and the fourth and fifth sentences seem like PR for fossil fuel companies. #notallgreenhousegases Nevertheless, I feel as if there are likely one or two good ideas hidden in it. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.95|172.70.206.95]] 16:01, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:I feel like the author doesn't know the work climate scientists go to to avoid using greenhouse gas concentration as a proxy for global warming (all the models of atmospheric water and its forms.) For blood pressure, it's easier to see what was attempted to be gotten at. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 16:37, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::Yes: the ones who dangerously simplify the climate change to "we must stop produce carbon dioxide" are not scientists but politicians. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 16:53, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:Definitely. We don't even KNOW all factors affecting climate change. Still, the link between rising carbon dioxide and temperature looks much more solid that the link between money spent on fighting climate change and levels of carbon dioxide. ... Wait, you didn't wanted to talk about climate did you? :-) (For record, I always though there are much better reasons to stop using fossil fuels than fighting global warming. Recently, for example, the energetic security from geopolitically problematic regions came under lot of attention.) -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 16:46, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::I want to talk about climate. Do you think we will be able to transition to carbon neutral and negative technologies in time to avoid the {{w|Jevons paradox}}? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.185|172.70.214.185]] 17:00, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:::The Jevons Paradox exists if the only forces affecting the consumption of a resource are supply and demand. If you're asking about carbon-neutral/negative technological process making sustainable technologies profitable faster than fossil fuel profits grow, then no, there's no hope even before the Jevons Paradox is considered. But if other options are considered, the Jevons Paradox doesn't really apply. (To take an extreme example: It doesn't matter how fuel-efficient internal combustion engines get, they'll never be the preferred choice if their manufacture is banned.) [[User:GreatWyrmGold|GreatWyrmGold]] ([[User talk:GreatWyrmGold|talk]]) 18:14, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::Only carbon negative technology requires {{w|Carbon-burning_process|5×10^8 K or 50 keV and densities > 3×10^9 kg/m3}}. I think that in the moment we will be using THAT on industrial scale we would be quite desperate. Also, the amount of energy we will need is going to grow unless we reduce population a LOT (like, for example, if all ecological activists would do the carbon responsible thing and commit suicide). Also, more and more of that energy we will need will be specifically electrical energy. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 20:21, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:::We need to remove 38 gigatons per year, which is only 0.7 milligrams per square centimeter of ocean. Think of the mean depth of the ocean: that square centimeter is very tall. From that perspective, isn't this an easy biological solution? That's only 0.5 micrograms per minute, from the full depth of each square centimeter of ocean, right? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.43|172.70.214.43]] 20:47, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

:Everyone thinks this is about pharmacology, and maybe it is. But I've been taking economics courses this semester, so that's what I think of. "We can't measure this factor directly, so we made up a formula that should let us calculate it (if we've measured all relevant factors correctly and all our other assumptions and theories are valid)" is a pretty common thing in that field. [[User:GreatWyrmGold|GreatWyrmGold]] ([[User talk:GreatWyrmGold|talk]]) 18:14, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:: What's the best example, using GDP as a proxy for development? Or something current like using the money supply as a proxy for inflation? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.95|172.70.214.95]] 20:19, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

== this dude keeps spamming ==

Sorry for the mild crassness, especially as a new user, but some Nazi f*ck is vandalizing the page. May someone please ban them?{{unsigned ip|172.71.26.59|03:49, 30 July 2022}}

Nah, they're using multiple IPs. Someone could semi-protect it or something but there ain't any mods doing their job it seems.{{unsigned ip|172.70.147.47|03:55, 30 July 2022}}

Where are the mods, anyways?{{unsigned ip|172.71.82.65|03:59, 30 July 2022}}
:You can't always count on volunteer authorities. Even us lowly IP address editors can revert vandalism. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.199|172.69.33.199]] 04:09, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::Yeah nah, we need it semi-protected {{unsigned ip|162.158.162.199|04:13, 30 July 2022}}
::: Funny if that were the goal of the vandalism. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.95|172.70.206.95]] 16:03, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:::: One reason that I don't think it should be the go-to counter-vandalism approach being used. But not for me to say. Whilstsoever I'm capable of intervening ''at least'' as much as any vandal tries to, I support the mod actions (they are there, doing things, BTW).
:::: Without actually tolerating the vandal, we easily outnumber the person concerned (and the very few other spammers/bots that sneak through the clearly effective existing speedbumps) and this means that such nuisance edits are heavily mitigated. If you see the damaged bits then you're either a regular or a very unlucky occasional visitor.
:::: (This morning, I went to revert an ad-spam that I noted had been written over a page-redirect, to be told that someone else had just gotten there before me!)
:::: I've been on far more abused online resources, both web (early days, long before CAPTCHA technology) and elsewhere (having seen how Usenet was both before and after The Eternal September) and the interference here is extraordinarily given the generally open nature of the submission process.
:::: PS. Please do sign your posts ( with <code><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></code> ), if only for the timestamp that makes the to and fro of conversations more understandable... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.221|162.158.34.221]] 19:01, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

:The rant gets replaced within two minutes of each revert. Presumably it's done by bot. We need a mod to take action. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.130.217|172.70.130.217]] 05:15, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
Article has been restored but some idiots keep spamming the page with random things. pls do something mods {{unsigned ip|172.70.147.47|03:59, 30 July 2022}}
:it's not "some idiots" it's all one person using different ips. he posted the exact same covid rant several times. i think he's schizophrenic or something and just really wants to be heard --[[Special:Contributions/172.69.69.40|172.69.69.40]] 04:39, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::But why here? Like, this is such a weird place to try and be heard, I'm sure even Reddit posts would have more visibility than edits to a webcomic wiki. [[User:NErDysprosium|NErDysprosium]] ([[User talk:NErDysprosium|talk]]) 06:06, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::: Don't underestimate the importance of the can't-get-jokes demographic for PSYOP recruitment. The invasion of Panama might not even have occurred if it weren't for people distracted by cartoons. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.185|172.69.33.185]] 17:16, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

[https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2652:_Proxy_Variable&diff=291433&oldid=291400 The protected version has much less text than the last non-vandalized version.] [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 20:02, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
: Re "The history of pharmaceutical research is largely a graveyard of failed proxy hypotheses." True, but someone should add that is the reason for experiment registration regulations. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.145|172.70.210.145]] 20:17, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:: I'm placing that version here, in hopes that it can be edited as a proxy for the protected version: [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.229|172.69.33.229]] 20:28, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
{{cot|Last non-vandalized version of the explanation, as further edited}}
In this comic, [[Hairy]] is discussing use of a proxy variable with [[Cueball]]. In statistics, a {{w|proxy variable}} is used as a stand-in for one or more other variables that are difficult to measure. In order to be useful as such, proxy variables must be correlated with what they are intended to represent. For example, a drug might aim to reduce deaths from a slow-acting disease. But testing if it reduces deaths might take many years, so researchers might test for a proxy outcome instead, like whether it results in loss of bone density or damage to cells. Physicians use blood pressure as one of many proxies for cardiovascular health.

Proxy variables are of interest to non-scientists as they provide a way to indirectly monitor or improve the complex systems that affect their lives. For example, people use local temperature as a rough experiential proxy for the severity of global warming. Economists might mistake GDP for productive or useful development, or mistake the size of the {{w|money supply}} for {{w|price inflation}}. While correlated, the causation implied by such assumptions is very much in doubt, because the GDP increase of demolishing a hospital might conflict with the widespread understanding of development, and while the money supply size is a cause of inflation, there are many other causes.

Hairy is dismissing the question of whether they are studying the right variable as too expensive to answer. This is deeply ironic and thus satirical, because good {{w|experiment design}} requires sufficient attention to the robustness of all the involved parts of an experiment, even if the expense may be prohibitive.

Choosing the wrong proxy variable might make the research misleading, irrelevant, or as the title text suggests, answer the wrong question. Separating correlation from {{w|Causality|causation}} is necessary when interpreting proxy variable results to make sure the question they answer is known. Mere correlation instead of {{w|Causal analysis|authentic causation}} yields weaker results. {{w|Exploratory causal analysis}} can assist with finding useful proxy variables, but is difficult for the layperson to interpret and can be misleading, because even if performed correctly, a {{w|combinatorial explosion}} of possible proxy variables can make traditional {{w|statistical significance}} analysis fail, requiring {{w|F-score}}s or similar measures. The history of pharmaceutical research is largely a graveyard of failed proxy hypotheses; that is one of the reasons for [https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/manage-recs/fdaaa experiment registration regulations.]

The title text's notion of having an answer without knowing the actual question could also be be a reference to the classic comedy science fiction novel {{w|The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy|The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy}}, where in one scene Earth turns out to be a supercomputer built for the purpose of figuring out the question for the answer "42."
{{cob}}

Is anyone going to comment that all of us IP editors are listed by our CDN proxy address? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.123|172.69.33.123]] 20:44, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

Talk:2652: Proxy Variable

2022-07-30T20:17:28Z

172.70.210.145: Reply

Talk:2652: Proxy Variable

2022-07-30T02:10:21Z

172.70.210.145: An interesting sync to current science news?

2651: Air Gap

2022-07-30T01:06:08Z

172.70.210.145: /* Explanation */ tip-ically

{{comic
| number = 2651
| date = July 27, 2022
| title = Air Gap
| image = air_gap.png
| titletext = You can still do powerline networking, but the bitrate does drop a little depending on the lightbulb warmup and cooldown delay.
}}

__NOTOC__

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by an AIR GAP-PROTECTED BOT - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
This is another one of [[Randall|Randall's]] [[:Category:Tips|Tips]], this time an Energy Tip.

The comic [[#Context for understanding the conflation joke|conflates the concepts]] of computer network security and home electrical power safety to comical effect, resulting in a deeply impractical and ineffective proposed solution. In {{w|computer security}}, {{w|Air_gap_(networking)|air-gapping}} is a measure used to secure sensitive computers or networks of computers by isolating them from the broader internet, since computers are often breached through the internet.

[[Randall]] suggests increasing the security of your home power supply by air-gapping it, using the light from a powered lightbulb to power a solar panel which then supplies power to the home, such that there is no physical wired connection between your house and the public electricity network. This is a large and very inefficient version of an {{w|opto-isolator}}, but would protect equipment behind the solar panel from power surges such as lightning strikes (which in an improperly {{w|Ground (electricity)|grounded}} home could blow out the light bulb, but not so easily risk frying the equipment beyond the photovoltaic cell and its inverter). Due to its inefficiency, this approach would waste substantial amounts of energy. Optical power beaming is being investigated to recharge drones in flight.[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MI2ph9jptM]

The title text mentions that a computer can still be connected to the internet via the power supply by using {{w|powerline networking}}, but that the bandwidth would be reduced by the lightbulb's warmup and cooldown delay, which would reduce the signalling rate the lightbulb could accomplish to no more than hundreds of bits per second, if that, for incandescent bulbs. However, as the solar panel cannot emit signals, the unidirectional link would be useless for traditional networking, because essential requests and acknowledgments would be unable to travel from behind the solar panel to the lightbulb. Early {{w|communication satellite}} systems for data networking used high-bandwidth unidirectional {{w|downlink}}s paired with low bandwidth ground telephone lines for outbound transmission, but such network configurations remain very uncommon.{{cn}}

Randall's solution is of course a joke. But in reality he could have used {{w|isolation transformer}}s, which serve to allow the transfer of power via changing {{w|electromagnetic field}}s without an electrically conductive path. Most transformers, including "wall wart" power adapters, provide this form of isolation and protect devices from noise, voltage transients, most surges, and shock hazard, using fuses and other circuitry. They also limit powerline networking bandwidth by filtering out high frequencies.

The look and subject of this comic is reminiscent of the [[:Category:Cursed Connectors|Cursed Connectors]] series. But without the numbered cursed connector in the comic, this is not one of those connectors.

===Why this would be inefficient and impractical===
* Even energy-efficient LED lightbulbs are only about 35% efficient at turning electricity into light, with the rest emitted as heat.
* The air gap is inefficient at passing light from the bulb to the panel, causing some of the light from the lightbulb to be lost to places other than the solar panel, such as to the eye of the observer. A rough guess might be that in the configuration shown less than 60% of light produced will reach the panel, even assuming a perfect reflector.
* Solar panels are generally around 20% efficient at converting light into electricity, with claims at the world record from a single light source at around 40%.

All these efficiency-reducing factors, and others, multiply together. Therefore, only a small fraction of energy would be transmitted between the two ends of the air gap, making the circuit require much more electricity and be much less cost-efficient. For instance, the generous assumptions above lead to 96% of the power being lost.

The solution as illustrated shows a single apparently-normal lightbulb, which typically draw less than 250 watts of power. Given the above efficiency issues, it would provide less than a tenth as much power.

===How this could have a theoretical benefit===
* There are exotic situations where malware on a computer should not be able to communicate with the outside world. Electricity usage is a simple-to-use side channel which would be made much less practical by such a contraption.

===Context for understanding the conflation joke===
One relatively obscure way this comic is funny involves the relationship of the two concepts being conflated. {{w|Power analysis}} in computer security is a form of {{w|side-channel attack}} where the attacker observes and/or manipulates the power use by a device for some reason — for example, to gain insight into an otherwise protected process, or to exfiltrate information without having to use a monitored network connection. Power analysis in fire safety means measuring the {{w|power factor}}, watts, resistance, inductance, capacitance, volts, and amps of electrical circuits.

==Transcript==
:[A solar panel and a lamp are pictured together, with the lamp pointed at the solar panel, and electronic equipment connected to the solar panel. Lines point outward from the bulb, indicating that it is shining.]
:[Caption below the panel]
:Energy tip: Increase the security of your home power supply by installing an air gap.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Tips]]
[[Category:Computer security]]

Talk:2651: Air Gap

2022-07-30T01:01:32Z

172.70.210.145: Reply

Worth noting that this is a large and inefficient version of an [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opto-isolator opto-isolator] [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.79|108.162.221.79]] 05:37, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

: Incandescent light bulb (assuming it the lamp does not use LED in the shape of light bulb) is not only less efficient than diode, but also much slower to warm up and cool down - it usually is much more sensitive to rapid switching, and has shorter life counted in the number of on/off cycles. --[[User:JakubNarebski|JakubNarebski]] ([[User talk:JakubNarebski|talk]]) 07:45, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
:: There’s not even any indication that the bulb is shaped like an incandescent bulb. Only that the front of the light (either fixture or bulb) is a convex curve. For all we know that could be a lens or diffuser in front of a flat LED. Whoever wrote that needs to go back and walk, because the claim that an incandescent bulb is depicted is quite simply false.[[Special:Contributions/172.71.142.89|172.71.142.89]] 10:35, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
::: The warmup and cooldown delays mentioned in the title text must imply an incandescent bulb, mustn't they? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.145|172.70.210.145]] 03:29, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

: I don't think it's less or more efficient than an opto-isolator, it essentially ''is'' just an opto-isolator. But an opto-isolator isn't supposed to be energy efficient to begin with; it's only designed to transmit data between circuits, not power. So the output side only needs to generate enough voltage/current to change the state of a transistor, and the input side only needs to generate enough light for the output side to do that. The voltages and currents involved aren't comparable to power circuits. --[[User:NeatNit|NeatNit]] ([[User talk:NeatNit|talk]]) 08:14, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

: By the way, wikipedia links can be written like this: <code><nowiki>[[wikipedia:opto-isolator|]]</nowiki></code> result: [[wikipedia:opto-isolator|opto-isolator]] (the final <code>|</code> automatically gets expanded to the article title without the <code>wikipedia:</code> prefix). --[[User:NeatNit|NeatNit]] ([[User talk:NeatNit|talk]]) 08:26, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
::Or more often here on ExplainXkcd, <code><nowiki>{{w|article}}</nowiki></code> or <code><nowiki>{{w|article|anchor text}}</nowiki></code>. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.213|172.70.206.213]] 08:35, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

::: Yes, thanks :) although there is a tiiiiiny advantage to the direct link without the template (the way I said), <code><nowiki>[[wikipedia:Pipe (computing)|]]</nowiki></code> becomes [[wikipedia:Pipe (computing)|Pipe]] whereas <code><nowiki>{{w|Pipe (computing)}}</nowiki></code> becomes {{w|Pipe (computing)}}. The pipe trick strips out the disambiguation parts of the title according to [[Wikipedia:Help:Pipe trick|some rules]]. --[[User:NeatNit|NeatNit]] ([[User talk:NeatNit|talk]]) 12:30, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
:::: Why not <code><nowiki>{{w|Pipe (computing)|pipe}}</nowiki></code>? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.95|172.70.214.95]] 15:18, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
:::::Yes we always use the <code><nowiki>{{w|xkcd|xkcd comic}}</nowiki></code> format here on explain to make {{w|xkcd|xkcd comic}} these links. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:16, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

It is missing that air-gapping the power supply would protect your home from voltage surges in the power network caused by lightning strikes. Depending where the lightning hits the power network, there may be no fuses protecting your home or single fuses may fail to protect you. --[[Special:Contributions/172.70.246.115|172.70.246.115]] 07:57, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
:That is true. But the suggestion that this might have anything to do with general energy security (as is currently very prominent in the explanation) is entirely unconvincing to me.
::I also originally thought this was the main joke, until seeing the title text about bit rate. Certainly it's worth mentioning, even if this isn't the main joke, since it would actually work, with a wide enough gap, ideally with a vacuum in between.

Incandescent light bulbs convert most of their energy to infrared light. There are solar cells that work in this infrared spectrum, so this might not be all that inefficient as stated. This should in fact be a lot more efficient than any LED+visible spectrum based panel, as incandescent bulbs are very efficient in converting electricity into infrared light, much more than LEDs most likely will ever be.
The (mostly) omnidirectionality of the light source might be an even bigger loss, as most of the light (however efficient) does not even reach the panel.
And regarding sending data over this construct: As soon as there's a 0V state (which will be the case as soon as the transmission starts, due to some form of manchester coding, regardless of it being a 0 or 1 bit) the PC behind the solar panel would not only have a data transmission problem :)
(With incandescent bulb, that is. A LED 0V might be short enough for capacitors in the PC's power supply to buffer it, if it is only at 50%(+PSU conversion loss) load max, as manchester coded signals per definition have a duty cycle of 50% to keep the DC bias at 0V)
[[Special:Contributions/172.68.51.204|172.68.51.204]] 08:26, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

What is the highest wattage commercial opto-isolator, and how can I get one mounted from the ceiling in my bedroom? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.207.8|172.70.207.8]] 14:10, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
: Ordinary florescent bulbs or neon tubes are close, the electrical circuit being isolated to flow through a gas which only becomes ionized and thus conductive in a way which causes it to emit light. But the signal stays as electrical without any intervening photons. You probably don't want a laser BBQ on your bedroom ceiling, but then again, the military gear referred to below isn't commercial, as it would never pass laser safety certifications. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.145|172.70.210.145]] 01:01, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

I wonder if it's worth noting the significant understatement within the title text, where it says "the bitrate does drop a little" in contrast to the severe and drastic drop in bitrate that would actually occur, especially in light of today's typical Internet speeds. It might not be worth mentioning, but it struck me as a humorous understatement of the true impact. [[User:Ianrbibtitlht|Ianrbibtitlht]] ([[User talk:Ianrbibtitlht|talk]]) 14:25, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
:We don't know if the light bulb is incandescent or LED, so we can't describe the bandwidth drop other than in very general terms. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.88|172.70.211.88]] 15:34, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
:: It's safe to say the warmup and cooldown delays mentioned in the title text imply an incandescent bulb. Is there a standard or average response time for household bulb incandescent filaments? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.43|172.70.214.43]] 03:33, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
::: Maybe this helps? https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/5625426 [[Special:Contributions/172.70.142.21|172.70.142.21]] 06:51, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
:::: Yes! [https://tigerprints.clemson.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1961&context=all_theses Figure 1.10 seems to suggest that frequencies above 10 Hz are filtered,] and that seems consistent with Figure 3.14, in that recovery time is a tenth of a second (though drop-off "cooldown" time is much shorter.) So if I remember my {{w|Binary Golay code|modem math,}} even with the most sophisticated coding, anything more than 640 bits per second should be impossible. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.225|172.69.33.225]] 07:39, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
::::: 640 bits per second should be enough for anyone. But seriously, Fig. 1.10 shows a fall-off, not a sharp peak. How do you know there isn't an 8,192-dimensional analog to the {{w|Leech lattice}} which would allow kbps? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.199|172.69.33.199]] 22:56, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

I'm almost tempted to suggest that this should be an (honourary) addition to the Cursed Connectors comic-collection. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.94.187|172.71.94.187]] 14:56, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
:I agree that it reminds me of some of those. But it could never be added to the category, as it misses the cursed connector name and number. But I have added a mention of the similarity here above, and also mentioned it on the [[:Category:Cursed Connectors]] page. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:22, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
:It's a cursed ''dis''connector. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 15:24, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
::{{w|Dis (Divine Comedy)|Dis}}-connectors are always cursed! ;) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.95|162.158.159.95]] 17:11, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

Yes, solar panels can transform electrical into electromagnetic signals. It is more on the side of the incandescent bulb that the capability to receive and forward these signals is missing. My source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGUteH93xNo
[[User:Torge|Torge]] ([[User talk:Torge|talk]]) 15:11, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
: Interesting! [[Special:Contributions/172.70.142.21|172.70.142.21]] 06:51, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
: Good link for free electrons in the recent [[2649: Physics Cost-Saving Tips]]. For this comic, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WGKz2sUa0w Part 1] might be better.,[[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.245|172.69.33.245]] 00:46, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

Nobody caught on that powerline networking is about sending data through powerlines? or that a crude opto-isolation setup could effectively scrub it? Where my networking geeks at? I am disappoint [[Special:Contributions/172.69.71.51|172.69.71.51]] 15:19, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

An electrical engineer here: perhaps we should mention that the box pictured after the solar panel must be an inverter? The lightbulb/solar panel pair will be acting as a rectifier, putting out purely positive voltage, and to get back to AC to run appliances on there would need to be an inverter.
[[Special:Contributions/172.69.62.49|172.69.62.49]] 01:10, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
:Can you please help out with the argument about rectifier efficiency at [[2642]]? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.95|172.70.214.95]] 03:24, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

Most of the bulbs in my house (before compact flourescent and LED) were 75 Watt or 100 Watt. 50 Watt would be a very dim bulb.
: Mice wouldn't agree. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.43|172.70.214.43]] 05:05, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
::In Denmark 60 Watt was standard, with 100 and 150 possible in some lamps. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:22, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

There are actually usecases for optical power links. For example electric field probes use this: https://www.raditeq.com/products/electric-field-probes/
--[[User:Casandro|Casandro]] ([[User talk:Casandro|talk]]) 08:10, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
:Some drones can be recharged in the air by lasers, but that's a really obscure application only the military needs, and then only as a contingency backup in most cases, but there were flying demos by companies interested in the space over the past decade. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.88|172.70.211.88]] 22:09, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

I think it might be possible to construct a scenario where this could have some security benefit, albeit not one that justifies such poor efficiency. Suppose you have an embedded system running off USB power to perform some cryptographic task, but the USB port the cable's plugged into is under the control of an attacker who has it instrumented to sample the power consumption at a high frequency. He can perform {{w|power_analysis}} if the load changes based on the operations performed by your device, but the setup in the comic should prevent information from leaking upstream in this manner. [[User:D5xtgr|D5xtgr]] ([[User talk:D5xtgr|talk]]) 19:44, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

2651: Air Gap

2022-07-29T23:07:01Z

172.70.210.145: /* Explanation */ replace context

{{comic
| number = 2651
| date = July 27, 2022
| title = Air Gap
| image = air_gap.png
| titletext = You can still do powerline networking, but the bitrate does drop a little depending on the lightbulb warmup and cooldown delay.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by an AIR GAP-PROTECTED BOT - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
This is another one of [[Randall|Randall's]] [[:Category:Tips|Tips]], this time an Energy Tip.

The comic [[#Context for understanding the joke|conflates the concepts]] of computer network security and home electrical power safety to comical effect, resulting in a deeply impractical and ineffective proposed solution. In {{w|computer security}}, {{w|Air_gap_(networking)|air-gapping}} is a measure used to secure sensitive computers or networks of computers by isolating them from the broader internet, since computers are often breached through the internet.

[[Randall]] suggests increasing the security of your home power supply by air-gapping it, using the light from a powered lightbulb to power a solar panel which then supplies power to the home, such that there is no physical wired connection between your house and the public electricity network. This is a large and very inefficient version of an {{w|opto-isolator}}, but would protect equipment behind the solar panel from power surges such as lightning strikes (which in an improperly {{w|Ground (electricity)|grounded}} home could blow out the light bulb, but not so easily risk frying the equipment beyond the photovoltaic cell and its inverter). Due to its inefficiency, this approach would waste substantial amounts of energy.

The title text mentions that a computer can still be connected to the internet via the power supply by using {{w|powerline networking}}, but that the bandwidth would be reduced by the lightbulb's warmup and cooldown delay, which would reduce the signalling rate the lightbulb could accomplish to no more than hundreds of bits per second, if that, for incandescent bulbs. However, as the solar panel cannot emit signals, the unidirectional link would be useless for traditional networking, because essential requests and acknowledgments would be unable to travel from behind the solar panel to the lightbulb. Early {{w|communication satellite}} systems for data networking used high-bandwidth unidirectional {{w|downlink}}s paired with low bandwidth ground telephone lines for outbound transmission, but such network configurations remain very uncommon.{{cn}}

Randall's solution is of course a joke. But in reality he could have used {{w|isolation transformer}}s, which serve to allow the transfer of power via changing {{w|electromagnetic field}}s without an electrically conductive path. Most transformers, including "wall wart" power adapters, provide this form of isolation and protect devices from noise, voltage transients, most surges, and shock hazard, using fuses and other circuitry. They also limit powerline networking bandwidth by filtering out high frequencies.

The look and subject of this comic is reminiscent of the [[:Category:Cursed Connectors|Cursed Connectors]] series. But without the numbered cursed connector in the comic, this is not one of those connectors.

===Why this would be inefficient and impractical===
* Even energy-efficient LED lightbulbs are only about 35% efficient at turning electricity into light, with the rest emitted as heat.
* The air gap is inefficient at passing light from the bulb to the panel, causing some of the light from the lightbulb to be lost to places other than the solar panel, such as to the eye of the observer. A rough guess might be that in the configuration shown less than 60% of light produced will reach the panel, even assuming a perfect reflector.
* Solar panels are generally around 20% efficient at converting light into electricity, with claims at the world record from a single light source at around 40%.

All these efficiency-reducing factors, and others, multiply together. Therefore, only a small fraction of energy would be transmitted between the two ends of the air gap, making the circuit require much more electricity and be much less cost-efficient. For instance, the generous assumptions above lead to 96% of the power being lost.

The solution as illustrated shows a single apparently-normal lightbulb, the highest-powered of which usually draw under 250 watts of power. Given the above efficiency issues, it would provide less than a tenth as much power.

===How this could have a theoretical benefit===
* There are exotic situations where malware on a computer should not be able to communicate with the outside world. Electricity usage is a simple-to-use side channel which would be made much less practical by such a contraption. The power draw of the lamp would be independent of the power consumption of the device.{{Actual citation needed}}

===Context for understanding the conflation===
One relatively obscure way this comic is funny involves the relationship of the two concepts being conflated. {w|Power analysis}} in computer security is a form of {{w|side-channel attack}} where the attacker observes and/or manipulates the power use by a device for some reason — for example, to gain insight into an otherwise protected process, or to exfiltrate information without having to use a monitored network connection. Power analysis in fire safety means measuring the {{w|power factor}}, volts, and watts of electrical circuits.

==Transcript==
:[A solar panel and a lamp are pictured together, with the lamp pointed at the solar panel, and electronic equipment connected to the solar panel. Lines point outward from the bulb, indicating that it is shining.]
:[Caption below the panel]
:Energy tip: Increase the security of your home power supply by installing an air gap.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Tips]]
[[Category:Computer security]]