explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

Talk:3020: Infinite Armada Chess

2024-12-06T18:59:00Z

172.70.230.60:

Did I do well? Added a very very basic explanation. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.147.132|172.68.147.132]] 04:25, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Well, yes but I wonder if just one tiny fix is needed. If you replace the white side with a simplyfied artillery tower, you reinvented space invaders.{{unsigned ip|172.71.160.70|04:57, 5 December 2024 (UTC)}}

I was personally hoping for an explanation of the Infinite Armada thing, and I feel like a link to the TV Tropes page doesn't really. Explain that at all. So I would love a bit of an expansion on that part! Just want to be sure I didn't miss some reference or something. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.23.91|172.68.23.91]] 05:48, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
: Likewise. I get the comic, but I assumed the 'armada' part was a reference that I just did not get. But it seems it is just a word choice. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.102.105|172.71.102.105]] 09:39, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
:: The only "Infinite Armada" reference I can think of is ''[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Knights_of_the_Old_Republic Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic]'', which kind of makes sense because if you have a Star Forge to make chess pieces with, why wouldn't you make them all queens? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.167.159|162.158.167.159]] 18:47, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

I think that since the error was "out of bounds", not "out of memory", it's referring to indexing outside of the region of memory that the program allocated to deal with the board. This would happen since instead of addressing rank 1..8, you could address rank 9, 10, 0, or -1. Unless bounds checking is performed when converting the board coordinates into linear array indices, you'd get an out-of-bounds error (or worse, succeed in reading or modifying memory that you weren't intending to). --[[Special:Contributions/172.71.30.253|172.71.30.253]] 05:45, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
:It was "Out of Bounds memory access". That means it was trying to access a memory address that was out of the bounds of the computer, as if it were trying to access the ω-th index of the board array, which would put it out of the memory range of any computer [[User:Firestar233|guess who]] ([[User talk:Firestar233|if you want to]] | [[Special:Contributions/Firestar233|what i have done]]) 06:15, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
:: There is no hint that the bounds are those of the computer, the simplest explanation really is that the bounds are those of an array. The error message does come up. In addition, to try to access the memory at the ω-th index, you would need to construct the ω-th index itself first (which would fail or not terminate) [[User:Jmm|Jmm]] ([[User talk:Jmm|talk]]) 07:01, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
::: The specific message, "RuntimeError: Out of bounds memory access", is a WebGL error issuing from its WASM cross-platform browser implementation. This implies to me that an attempt to render an infinite chessboard failed in a fairly trivial way, because of a poor implementation. It's very unlikely that there had been a problem with the [https://github.com/official-stockfish/Stockfish/tree/master/src Stockfish playing algorithm] yet, which would have failed with a different message if it ran out of memory, such as "Killed", which is all that shells like Bash print when one of their job processes is killed by the kernel's OOM killer, or by anything else for that matter. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.215.21|172.70.215.21]] 12:58, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Is this a reference to [https://youtu.be/rav29N0-h2c infinite chess by Naviary?] [[User:HaruruChanDesu|HaruruChanDesu]] ([[User talk:HaruruChanDesu|talk]]) 11:21, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

"it does not really need to consider the infinitely many pieces" => a chess Engine would need to consider the infinitely many pieces (or have a way to abstract them), even if some pieces are currently stuck because the engine recursively evaluates moves and counter-moves (i.e. evaluates the game up to some depth).

Is the cardinality of the set of all the pieces smaller than the cardinality of the set of all possible moves? My gut instinct says yes but I don't have the energy to muck around and see if I can prove it. If I did try I think that matrix diagonalization would be the first thing I'd try. Anybody less lazy than me on this? --[[User:Tomb|Tomb]] ([[User talk:Tomb|talk]]) 21:30, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
: The number of games is at least Beth one (cardinality of the continuum so uncountable). After some preliminary moves you can have a black queen on an otherwise empty row and a white queen in the black pawn row. Now on pairs of moves the black queen moves in its row so its column mode four is a base four digit while the white queen moves up one row to give the digits position. So we can map real numbers uniquely into games.
: The number of pieces is obviously countable.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.230.60|172.70.230.60]] 18:59, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Can someone explain the linked joke with all the extra queens? I don't understand why it's a bad position. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.59.126|172.69.59.126]] 16:49, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
:Knight to d6. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.167.175|162.158.167.175]] 17:09, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
::...is checkmate by black. White can't capture the knight with either of the two queens that attack it because they're both pinned, by black's bishop and rook. (And we know it's black's turn to move because the colored squares indicate white just moved.) [[User:DKMell|DKMell]] ([[User talk:DKMell|talk]]) 17:54, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Expected some discussion here already on the best opening moves given a infinite board or at least the board depicted.
1. e3 e6 2. Qh5 seems a logical start, but not entirely sure what would happen after that?
Any ideas? [[User:Flekkie|Flekkie]] ([[User talk:Flekkie|talk]]) 22:56, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
:I think games will generally end in a draw by perpetual check that's something like:
:1. Qxd7+ Qxd7
:2. Qxd7+ (etc)
:It's tricky to prevent a player at a disadvantage from repeatedly sacrificing queens from further and further away down some file. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.54.138|172.68.54.138]] 02:43, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
::However, the rules of chess wouldn't cause this game to end in a draw since there are captures every turn, and captures reset the 50-move counter that triggers a draw. The players could agree to a draw - or perhaps the player at a disadvantage could hope to win by exhaustion, that is, by following this strategy indefinitely and hoping the other player collapses from weariness first. [[User:DKMell|DKMell]] ([[User talk:DKMell|talk]]) 03:27, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

;Hit me up when this becomes real.

I would like to try this out. [[User:CalibansCreations|'''<span style="color:#ff0000;">Caliban</span>''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 12:29, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
:It should be easy enough. You will rarely get the queens out in play from deep in the array. So maybe just put two chess boars together and put some placeholder in for queens in the extra fields. If ever a queen in the bottom row is moved, place extra queens that can now be moved into the 2-3 squares that would be outside the board...--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:39, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
:It might be something one could set up in Infinite Chess, although having limits on the chessboard may be difficult. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.150.67|172.68.150.67]] 14:01, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

: Here's a finite approximation in ChessCraft: https://www.chesscraft.ca/design?id=5KM4 [[User:Promethean|Promethean]] ([[User talk:Promethean|talk]]) 15:37, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

While I understand how to play chess, I don't get the bit about "having a bunch of queens doesn't go very well". At first glance, the linked chess layout looks pretty solid. Can someone please enlighten me? Also, what does the TV Tropes link about Title Drop have to do with Infinite Armada, aside from that being the title of the comic? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.230.77|172.70.230.77]] 13:10, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

:: ... Nd6. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.246|172.70.91.246]] 13:31, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

::: Ah, thanks. Moving the knight there puts the king in check, and moving either queen to take it exposes the king to the bishop or rook, so checkmate. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.63.38|162.158.63.38]] 15:05, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

::::You are assuming that the opponent makes no moves while you spend at least three moves advancing your knight. Looks like either side can draw by always moving the king backwards whenever a queen has moved and made a hole he can move to and otherwise trying to make a new, deeper hole. Eventually he gets so far back that any attack turns into an infinite sequence of queens taking each other, with the attacker only having file attacks while the defender can retake from a rank, file, or diagonal. Any time the attacker breaks off the infinite sequence of queens taking each other to set up something else, the defender takes advantage of the break to move the king deeper and put more queens in front of him or to create more empty spaces to sidestep into when attacked. To me, this looks like a certain draw. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.252|172.69.33.252]] 16:21, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

:::::They're talking about the linked layout at https://x.com/chesscom/status/1841540380363211164, not the layout in the comic. It only takes one move for the black knight to move to Nd6 and put the white king in checkmate. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.109.167|141.101.109.167]] 20:59, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

You might be able to get the developer of fairy stockfish ( https://fairy-stockfish.github.io/ ) to add this if you ask nicely. I have seen them add several reader requests. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.143|172.70.211.143]] 15:46, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Could this be a reference to the meme about "eating an infinite armada of pizza"? The wording seems too similar to be a coincidence. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.114.46|172.70.114.46]] 14:46, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Would this guarantee a draw between two competent players who'd played the variant before, or would there be more nuance to it than there appears to be?

Can someone explain the linked joke with all the extra queens? I don't understand why it's a bad position. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.59.125|172.69.59.125]] 16:48, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

The explanation of the linked joke is that the king appears safe at first glance, but in reality there is a simple move that wins the game for black. Moving the black knight to the top left corner of the queen square checks the king. The king cannot move to escape. Two queens are in position to take the knight and save the white king, but both of those moves expose the king to attack from other black pieces (the rook or the bishop).

Wow. Not only did White give Black a mate in one, they also blundered a mate in one. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.167.176|162.158.167.176]] 20:21, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Really? This comic specifically references some obscure roblox game with like 350k visits? That can't be right. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.154.247|172.71.154.247]] 02:31, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

This was the variant played at the chess tournament held at David Hilbert's Grand Hotel. You'd think they would have struggled to fit infinitely large boards in the conference room, but they just kept moving the tables until they had enough space. [[User:RegularSizedGuy|RegularSizedGuy]] ([[User talk:RegularSizedGuy|talk]]) 08:01, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Clarifying "Surprisingly little memory to analyze conventional Chess": Without trying to "golf" the memory requirements, a board can be represented in 64 bytes, a reversible move in three bytes (start square, end square, piece captured). 40 moves without a pawn move or a capture is a draw, so the search stack is less than 5,680 moves. Two copies of the board (current search position, a board for looking back for detecting repeated positions), a few pointers for searching for moves to try: 20K of memory is plenty to search the entire Chess tree. And a truly unimaginably huge finite amount of time. (Golfers, start your carts!) [[Special:Contributions/172.68.55.12|172.68.55.12]] 12:08, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Queen to A9.56x10^14 -[[User:Psychoticpotato|P?sych??otic?pot??at???o ]] ([[User talk:Psychoticpotato|talk]]) 13:47, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Seems like a trivial win for white? Start w/ scholar's mate 1. e5 ... 2. Qh6, and just keep throwing queens at the king. It's much easier for the infinite queens to attack than to block and defend. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.154.76|172.71.154.76]] 18:21, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

I cannot image this is not trying to reference https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSCNW1OCk_M , which recently resurfaced again.

2875: 2024

2024-01-02T09:18:45Z

172.70.230.60: Undo revision 331829 by 172.69.194.224 (talk)

<noinclude>:''This page refers to the comic named "2024". For comic #2024, see [[2024: Light Hacks]].''</noinclude>
{{comic
| number = 2875
| date = January 1, 2024
| title = 2024
| image = 2024_2x.png
| imagesize = 740x553px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = It wasn't originally constitutionally required, but presidents who served two terms have traditionally followed George Washington's example and gotten false teeth.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by OBAMA'S TEETH - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

In what starts off almost like a "[[:Category:Comics to make one feel old|doesn't time fly?]]" scene, the unstoppable progression of the calendar is observed, as [[Ponytail]] points out that it's now 2024. [[Cueball]], in response, notes that it is an election year, in this context a {{w|President of the United States#Election|US ''Presidential'' election}} year, which occurs every four years and has (in one form or other) since 1788. Ponytail then replies in some form of exasperated tone that they "keep on happening", which is true but (normally) unsurprising, even/especially with other major elections happening every two years, presumably not compared to how [https://www.bristol247.com/news-and-features/news/youre-joking-not-another-one/ some other democracies] might be less predictable/more frequent.

On top of this, Ponytail seems to have not been aware (or maybe has chosen to forget) the passing of two whole election cycles (and two newer incumbents) as the discussion focuses upon {{w|Barack Obama}}, the ''former'' US President. Ponytail seems to be quite behind the times as she asks if Obama is still president (he left office January 20th, 2017, which was 7 (!) years ago, a fact that Cueball cannot quite believe Ponytail is ignorant of). Ponytail states that she liked him, and wonders if he'll be up for taking on the position again. But Cueball states that he ''can't'' be made President again, having already served two terms, which Ponytail confirms by checking for herself the details of the {{w|Twenty-second Amendment to the United States Constitution}}.

The humor in the comic comes in the second half; Cueball and Ponytail discuss whether Obama is the same person (like the mythical {{w|Ship of Theseus}}, most of his constituent cells are frequently replaced), with Ponytail looking into the possibility of Obama's re-election based upon philosophical/biological technicalities (as applied to the Constitution's words), rather than as legal/political convention might normally suggest. But when even that approach is seen to be wanting, requiring a wait significantly exceeding 30 years, Ponytail suggests negating that issue by having all of Obama's teeth removed and replaced with false teeth.

In order to facilitate the latter goal, Ponytail announces her intention to consult a dentist and (for exact reasons that can only be guessed at) a lawyer. Seeing where her current misplaced, and {{w|Dunning–Kruger effect|less than informed}}, zeal might be leading her, Cueball gives his prediction that the probable {{w|Supreme Court of the United States|ultimate legal arbiters}} of her plan might be unanimous in rejecting its validity (if not dissuading its attempt). SCOTUS being unanimous on an issue is now a [https://www.scotusblog.com/2022/07/as-unanimity-declines-conservative-majoritys-power-runs-deeper-than-the-blockbuster-cases/ comparatively rare event].

The title text references {{w|George Washington's teeth|George Washington's (in)famous 'false teeth'}}. Washington's dentures are often falsely claimed to be made of wood; in truth they were ''real'' teeth procured from other sources. Regardless, this would have likely resolved the rather specific problems established in the philosophical conundrum, and the title text claims that other presidents used this plan to get around the Constitutional limitations concerned in case they wanted to serve more than two terms.

As already stated, however, no one has yet even ''needed'' to carry out this plan. Only one President has exceeded the limit; {{w|Franklin D. Roosevelt}} died in office during his ''fourth'' term, but he served prior to the 22nd Amendment and was thus unaffected by the rule, which was enacted six years after his death. (FDR did have a partial denture, but given that he retained some of his natural teeth, he did not engage in Ponytail's proposed scheme.) Presidents since then have definitely tried various schemes aimed at securing a second term, with both successes and failures, but nobody has yet planned ''this particular plan'' to achieve a third or beyond. Or at least one can assume that those that perhaps did (including, as noted, all those who were not yet 'required' to go to these lengths) failed to attain their goals for entirely different reasons.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[Ponytail and Cueball are walking.]
:Ponytail: So this is 2024.
:Cueball: Yup. Guess it's an election year now.
:Ponytail: Again? Man, those just keep happening, huh?

:[Ponytail and Cueball now standing.]
:Ponytail: Who's the president these days, anyway? Is it still Obama?
:Cueball: What? No? He hasn't been... How do you not...

:[Ponytail and Cueball still standing.]
:Ponytail: Darn, I liked him. Is he running this time?
:Cueball: No, he's not allowed to.
:Ponytail: He's not? Why?
:Cueball: Constitution.

:[Ponytail checks her smartphone.]
:Phone: ''Amendment 22''
:Phone: No person shall be elected to the office of the president more than twice
:Ponytail: What?? C'mon...

:[Ponytail talking to Cueball.]
:Ponytail: Don't all your cells get replaced every seven years, Ship of Theseus-style? Is he even the same person?
:Ponytail: Maybe "no person shall be elected more than twice" isn't a prohibition, it's more of an observation, like "you can't step in the same river twice."

:[Zoom in on Cueball.]
:Cueball: Isn't the cell thing a myth?
:Cueball: I think tooth enamel has a turnover half-life of 30+ years. His teeth molecules are probably the same.

:[Ponytail heads off with a finger raised.]
:Ponytail: So if Obama just gets false teeth, he can run again! I need to talk to a dentist and a lawyer!
:Cueball: The Supreme Court is about to vote 9-0 to block your number.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Elections]]
[[Category:Politics]]
[[Category:Biology]]