explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

2907: Schwa

2024-03-20T21:18:08Z

172.70.86.2: /* Explanation */ Added quotes. And it is *entirely possible* to say "cat" and "father" in local accents to me with the 'a's identical. (And the 'er' also: traditionally /kat/ + /ˈfaða/ in one town, /kæt/ + /ˈfæðæ/ in another.) Rare, perhaps?

{{comic
| number = 2907
| date = March 15, 2024
| title = Schwa
| image = schwa_2x.png
| imagesize = 301x389px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = Doug's cousin, the one from London, runs a Bumble love cult.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a ONE-VOWEL VOWEL ALIGNMENT CHART - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

English features a lot of {{w|Reduced vowel|vowel reduction}}, where vowels in unstressed syllables often become a short 'uh'-like sound called a {{w|schwa}} (ə). As [[Randall]] notes, this makes it by far the most common sound in English, and [[Randall]] makes the observational joke that one can learn the English language without learning any other vowel sounds, if one sticks to the right topics of conversation. He gives conversational examples which demonstrate exactly that, using words that contain ''only'' the schwa vowel -- accurate for US and UK dialects without the {{w|Phonological history of English close back vowels#STRUT–COMMA merger|STRUT-COMMA merger}}.

The humor lies in the unusal and impractical elements of this tip:
* It's ''impractical'', since limiting oneself to only words with schwa will exclude using many common words (like "no") and make for stilted speech (using "Nuh uh" every time instead).
* It's ''highly unusual'' for hyper-efficient language learning to focus on all words with a common vowel sound rather than, say, the 1,000 most common words. English learners learn between 14 and 20 vowel sounds - depending on the dialect - which are written with just six vowel letters (AEIOU and sometimes Y). For example, the 'a' in "cat" may not be the same 'a' in "father", depending on dialect.

Randall has had a longstanding interest in minimalist visions of English communication. He published a whole book, Thing Explainer, about explaining complex ideas — such as the Up-Goer 5 — using “only the ten hundred words people use the most often.”

The intended pronunciation of the conversation can be written in the {{w|International Phonetic Alphabet}} (while preserving punctuation marks) as:
:Megan: /wəts əp? wəz dəɡ ˈɡənə kəm? dəɡ ləvz brən{{w|Voiceless postalveolar affricate|t͡ʃ}}./
:Ponytail: /ˈnə{{w|Glottal stop|ʔ}}<nowiki />ə, dəɡz stək kəz əv ə ˈtən(ə)l əbˈstrək{{w|Voiceless postalveolar fricative|ʃ}}(ə)n. ə trək dəmpt ə tən əv ˈən{{w|Voiced palatal approximant|j}}(ə)nz./
:Megan: /ə{{w|Voiceless velar fricative|x}}./

The title text, in IPA, if only schwas were used:
:/dəgz ˈkəz(ə)n, {{w|Voiced dental fricative|ð}}<nowiki />ə wən frəm ˈlənd(ə)n, rənz ə ˈbəmb(ə)l ləv kəlt./

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
:[Megan, Cueball, and Ponytail stand in front of a dinner table, with Megan and Cueball facing Ponytail. Megan has her hand on the rightmost chair while Ponytail has her palm out.]
:Megan: What's up? Was Doug gonna come? Doug loves brunch.
:Ponytail: Nuh uh, Doug's stuck 'cause of a tunnel obstruction. A truck dumped a ton of onions.
:Megan: Ugh.

:[Caption below the panel:]
:The schwa is the most common vowel sound in English. In fact, if you stick to the right conversation topics, you can avoid learning any other ones.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Language]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]

Talk:2788: Musical Scales

2023-06-14T08:41:55Z

172.70.86.2:

The page says it was last edited about four hours from now. I'm wondering wether the lineage of in the hall... is worth mentioning. ie Grieg composed it for an Ibsen play. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.175.178|172.70.175.178]] 23:06, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
:(It's server time. Which is set as UTC. Currently matches central European summer time, I guess, but is one hour behind me (using BST in ordinary life), but matches me nicely when I'm back on GMT. If I read you right, I'm guessing you're on the US east-coast TZ (or equivalent, elsewhere in the Americas), and if you're on DST right now you'll find you have to mentally adjust by ''five'' whenever you're not. I imagine that logged-in people can configure dynamic time displays to local time (for themselves), but 'hard written records like on these signatures probably aren't converted 'live' (no good way to not mess up with false-changes/false-nonchanges) so there's probably no point doing that anyway. Just realise that you need to remember that it's an offset of four/five/whatever-it-might-be for your current time and place and rejoice that (with a spherical Earth, not somehow unified under one global political system that can tell all people to work with ever stranger hours of daylight, therefore with necessarily disjointed timezones) at least there's no possibility of falling off the 'edge' and perhaps into the jaws of the world-serpent. There are plenty of other problems, but not that! ...and no doubt there was discussion as to whether to align with Randall's habitual locale, instead, but more people know how to convert between their local UTC±whatever and straight UTC (or don't have to) than might be expected to reliably cross convert between two different ± values, correctly and accounting for whether either or both are DST at the moment. So I don't just say I'm happy with the situation because (for half a year) it matches my own TZ, I think it's just best all round. And doubtless various Europeans think so too (especially the other half of the year!). With apologies to Kiwis, Hawaiians and everyone else for the minor (but predictable) time-shifts they pretty kuch always have to consider, but still would even if you were happily aligned by circumstance... ;) ) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.220|141.101.98.220]] 09:42, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

::No, central European summer time is TWO hours away from UTC. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 20:06, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Now I have to re-listen to In the Hall…; I think there are some errors here.[[Special:Contributions/172.71.146.212|172.71.146.212]] 01:23, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Can someone make a midi of Hall of the Mountain King but with an exponential time scale to "compensate" for the log transform? I want to hear a version that both starts and ends at 200 bpm. Is there any music that actually uses mathematically varying tempos? [[User:Quantum7|Quantum7]] ([[User talk:Quantum7|talk]]) 06:35, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
: I can't make a midi but I can make an mp3: https://voca.ro/17QJDbYxNnlh [[User:Viliml|Viliml]] ([[User talk:Viliml|talk]]) 20:25, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Ein belegtes Brot mit Schinken, ein belegtes Brot mit Ei...(Germans will understand.) [[Special:Contributions/198.41.242.94|198.41.242.94]] 06:50, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
: das sind zwei belegte Brote, eins mit Schinken und eins mit Ei. [[User:Bischoff|Bischoff]] ([[User talk:Bischoff|talk]]) 07:28, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
:: But what does that have to do with dead pants?? [[Special:Contributions/172.71.26.254|172.71.26.254]] 13:36, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Why "mistakenly"? Sure there are some-half notes in there, but it's generally linear in the sense that every 7 steps correspond to a doubling of the frequency no matter where you start from {{unsigned ip|172.68.51.197|07:30, 13 June 2023}}
::For the line spacing it doesn't matter much. A true linear-scale staff which takes half-steps into account would have spacings of 0.9, 1.8, 4 and 8. The one glaring discrepancy is that on a true linear scale, the note E5 (659 Hz) would be closer to F5 (698 Hz) than to D5 (587 Hz). [[User:Rick4|Rick4]] ([[User talk:Rick4|talk]]) 14:29, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Most sheet music is not truly linear in time to begin with. It's pseudo-logarithmic but in the sense that the shorter notes (8ths and 16ths and heaven forbid 32nds for us da**ed drummers) are given MORE space relative to the (fixed) size of the note heads compared to quarter, half, and full notes. This then affects the on-page length of measures: measures with faster notes are longer (as measurable with a small ruler) than those with longer/slower notes, even though -- assuming a fixed tempo -- their play speed (time duration) stays the same. And then you get modifiers like "rit(ardando)", "rall(entando)", "accel(erando)", "piu mosso", "meno mosso", and the like which modify tempo and throw the whole page-space-to-time relation out the window as if the page of sheet music itself (or the audience) sped to near-light speeds. Randall's going off the deep end trying to make this insane notation fit into fixed science rules; best to leave it to us crazy musicians and just enjoy the music. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.65.46|172.69.65.46]] 10:44, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

"Randall seems to have mistakenly assumed" what? no, the entire point of the comic is that Randall knows standard staves do *not* represent a linear increase in frequency. A treble clef is centered on G4, which has a frequency of 392 Hz, F4 has a frequency of 349, and E4 has a frequency of 330. The drawn stave has one line between E4 and F4, corresponding to a jump of about 19 Hz. Two lines between F4 and G4, and we're assuming a linear scale, so that's about right to get to 392. The size of the games grows geometrically, as you expect. Again, this is the entire point of the comic.
:That's not what it says, though. It says he may have assumed it's a linear increase in *pitch*, and therefore a *exponential* increase in frequency.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.2|172.70.86.2]] 08:40, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Talk:2788: Musical Scales

2023-06-14T08:40:54Z

172.70.86.2:

The page says it was last edited about four hours from now. I'm wondering wether the lineage of in the hall... is worth mentioning. ie Grieg composed it for an Ibsen play. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.175.178|172.70.175.178]] 23:06, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
:(It's server time. Which is set as UTC. Currently matches central European summer time, I guess, but is one hour behind me (using BST in ordinary life), but matches me nicely when I'm back on GMT. If I read you right, I'm guessing you're on the US east-coast TZ (or equivalent, elsewhere in the Americas), and if you're on DST right now you'll find you have to mentally adjust by ''five'' whenever you're not. I imagine that logged-in people can configure dynamic time displays to local time (for themselves), but 'hard written records like on these signatures probably aren't converted 'live' (no good way to not mess up with false-changes/false-nonchanges) so there's probably no point doing that anyway. Just realise that you need to remember that it's an offset of four/five/whatever-it-might-be for your current time and place and rejoice that (with a spherical Earth, not somehow unified under one global political system that can tell all people to work with ever stranger hours of daylight, therefore with necessarily disjointed timezones) at least there's no possibility of falling off the 'edge' and perhaps into the jaws of the world-serpent. There are plenty of other problems, but not that! ...and no doubt there was discussion as to whether to align with Randall's habitual locale, instead, but more people know how to convert between their local UTC±whatever and straight UTC (or don't have to) than might be expected to reliably cross convert between two different ± values, correctly and accounting for whether either or both are DST at the moment. So I don't just say I'm happy with the situation because (for half a year) it matches my own TZ, I think it's just best all round. And doubtless various Europeans think so too (especially the other half of the year!). With apologies to Kiwis, Hawaiians and everyone else for the minor (but predictable) time-shifts they pretty kuch always have to consider, but still would even if you were happily aligned by circumstance... ;) ) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.220|141.101.98.220]] 09:42, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

::No, central European summer time is TWO hours away from UTC. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 20:06, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Now I have to re-listen to In the Hall…; I think there are some errors here.[[Special:Contributions/172.71.146.212|172.71.146.212]] 01:23, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Can someone make a midi of Hall of the Mountain King but with an exponential time scale to "compensate" for the log transform? I want to hear a version that both starts and ends at 200 bpm. Is there any music that actually uses mathematically varying tempos? [[User:Quantum7|Quantum7]] ([[User talk:Quantum7|talk]]) 06:35, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
: I can't make a midi but I can make an mp3: https://voca.ro/17QJDbYxNnlh [[User:Viliml|Viliml]] ([[User talk:Viliml|talk]]) 20:25, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Ein belegtes Brot mit Schinken, ein belegtes Brot mit Ei...(Germans will understand.) [[Special:Contributions/198.41.242.94|198.41.242.94]] 06:50, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
: das sind zwei belegte Brote, eins mit Schinken und eins mit Ei. [[User:Bischoff|Bischoff]] ([[User talk:Bischoff|talk]]) 07:28, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
:: But what does that have to do with dead pants?? [[Special:Contributions/172.71.26.254|172.71.26.254]] 13:36, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Why "mistakenly"? Sure there are some-half notes in there, but it's generally linear in the sense that every 7 steps correspond to a doubling of the frequency no matter where you start from {{unsigned ip|172.68.51.197|07:30, 13 June 2023}}
::For the line spacing it doesn't matter much. A true linear-scale staff which takes half-steps into account would have spacings of 0.9, 1.8, 4 and 8. The one glaring discrepancy is that on a true linear scale, the note E5 (659 Hz) would be closer to F5 (698 Hz) than to D5 (587 Hz). [[User:Rick4|Rick4]] ([[User talk:Rick4|talk]]) 14:29, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Most sheet music is not truly linear in time to begin with. It's pseudo-logarithmic but in the sense that the shorter notes (8ths and 16ths and heaven forbid 32nds for us da**ed drummers) are given MORE space relative to the (fixed) size of the note heads compared to quarter, half, and full notes. This then affects the on-page length of measures: measures with faster notes are longer (as measurable with a small ruler) than those with longer/slower notes, even though -- assuming a fixed tempo -- their play speed (time duration) stays the same. And then you get modifiers like "rit(ardando)", "rall(entando)", "accel(erando)", "piu mosso", "meno mosso", and the like which modify tempo and throw the whole page-space-to-time relation out the window as if the page of sheet music itself (or the audience) sped to near-light speeds. Randall's going off the deep end trying to make this insane notation fit into fixed science rules; best to leave it to us crazy musicians and just enjoy the music. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.65.46|172.69.65.46]] 10:44, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

"Randall seems to have mistakenly assumed" what? no, the entire point of the comic is that Randall knows standard staves do *not* represent a linear increase in frequency. A treble clef is centered on G4, which has a frequency of 392 Hz, F4 has a frequency of 349, and E4 has a frequency of 330. The drawn stave has one line between E4 and F4, corresponding to a jump of about 19 Hz. Two lines between F4 and G4, and we're assuming a linear scale, so that's about right to get to 392. The size of the games grows geometrically, as you expect. Again, this is the entire point of the comic.
:That's not what it says, though. It says he may have assumed it's a linear increase in *pitch*, and therefore a *logarithmic* increase in frequency.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.2|172.70.86.2]] 08:40, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

2783: Ruling Out

2023-06-05T16:40:37Z

172.70.86.2: /* Explanation */ ...in fact.

{{comic
| number = 2783
| date = May 31, 2023
| title = Ruling Out
| image = ruling_out_2x.png
| imagesize = 295x396px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = We were able to replicate and confirm prior authors' detection of a moon orbiting the Earth with high confidence.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a TECTONICALLY-ACTIVE BOT WITH SUBSURFACE OCEANS. Do NOT rule out this tag too soon.}}

Most science studies are intended to discover new knowledge. In astronomy, the goal is often to find different types of objects in space, or learn how astronomical objects are formed and behave. But often from studying things that exist, we also learn about limits of the kinds of things that ''can'' exist; when this happens, we say that we've "ruled out" the excluded phenomena.

[[Cueball]] lists five obviously impossible objects.{{Citation needed}}

* "Earthlike stars": A play on "Earth-like planets" which scientists are very interested in finding. The Earth is [https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/planets/earth/overview/ not a star], hence stars cannot be Earthlike.
: Searches for both {{w|List of potentially habitable exoplanets|Earth-like planets}} and {{w|Solar analog|Sun-like stars}} go unabated, with various near matches found.

* "Exoplanets in our solar system": {{w|Exoplanet}}s are by definition not in our solar system.
: Planets in our solar system (even {{w|Planets beyond Neptune|undiscovered ones}}) are unaffected, as is the {{w|List of exoplanet search projects|search for exoplanets}} around other stars, with conclusive evidence of both.

* "Habitable-zone quasars": {{w|Quasar}}s in the {{w|habitable zone}}s of stars are only theoretically feasible for relatively small {{w|black hole}}s with active {{w|accretion disk}}s in a star's habitable zone, visible from the Earth and brighter than the Sun, because of the technical criteria for classifying them in terms of their {{w|apparent magnitude}} relative to that of their galaxy.[https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/0004-637X/728/1/26] None such have ever been observed.{{fact}} While typical galaxies usually have only one quasar in their center, merging galaxies often have two far apart. Perhaps in 4-5 billion years, when the {{w|Andromeda Galaxy}} merges with our {{w|Milky Way}}, its [https://www.sci.news/astronomy/article00779.html microquasar] might qualify, but that is extremely unlikely.
:While not certain, habitable zones around some quasars have not been ruled out.[https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/1538-4357/ab1b2f/meta][https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1742-6596/2364/1/012057/meta]

* "Stars with subsurface oceans": Because the temperatures inside stars are higher than that which can support the existence of liquids as we understand them, stars cannot have subsurface oceans. After many billions of years, a {{w|white dwarf}} will cool to the point where it no longer emits significant heat or light, becoming a {{w|black dwarf}}, eventually cooling to the point where it might develop subsurface liquids.{{acn}} However, the universe is not old enough for any black dwarfs to exist yet,[https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1086/375341/pdf] and sufficiently cool black dwarfs might not even be considered stars, but rather {{w|rogue planet}}s.
: The possibility of subsurface oceans within various planets and moons is an {{w|Extraterrestrial liquid water|active subject of study}}, and was previously mentioned 10 comics ago in [[2773: Planetary Scientist]].

* "Tectonically active black holes": Black holes do not have {{w|tectonic plate}}s, so they cannot be tectonically active.
: There are theories that neutron stars can exhibit {{w|Quake (natural phenomenon)#Starquake|tectonic-like movements}} (as some of the more typical rocky bodies certainly do), but the physics of the 'inside' of a black hole are thought to involve {{w|Black hole#Singularity|strange physics}} incompatible with any form of geology, and cannot be observed anyway – it is believed that the only externally-observable properties of black holes are mass, electric charge, and angular momentum, poetically called the '{{w|no-hair theorem}}'.

The joke is that you don't actually have to study anything to come to these almost patently obvious conclusions. The counter-proposals would need far more effort to even justify them as valid theories, by common understanding, and greater still to try to observe any supporting proof.

Some studies are also done to confirm the results of previous studies, to ensure that the conclusions were not mistaken or a fluke. The title text describes a study that was done to confirm the existence of a moon orbiting Earth, even though any sighted person can walk outside and see the Moon, the existence of the Moon has been known for at least as long as humanity has existed, and the fact that it orbits the Earth has been assumed or known for upwards of 3,000 years. The ancient Greeks and Babylonians, for example, thought that the Moon orbited the Earth, though they lacked a detailed physical understanding of the system (they also believed, erroneously, that {{w|Geocentric model|everything else in the universe orbited the Earth too}}). {{w|Anaxagoras}} (c. 500–428 BC) is credited with the correct explanation of lunar eclipses, and reportedly was the first to explain that the Moon shines due to reflected light from the Sun. However, it was not until the work of {{w|Nicolaus Copernicus}} in the 16th century that a detailed and accurate model of the Moon's orbit around the Earth was developed. Regardless, at this stage, a study to confirm the validity of Copernican orbits would contribute nothing to the scientific process, much less a study confirming the mere existence of the Moon.

==Transcript==

:[Cueball is talking to Megan.]
:Cueball: So far our astronomy group has published studies ruling out the existence of Earthlike stars, exoplanets in our solar system, habitable-zone quasars, stars with subsurface oceans, and tectonically active black holes.

:[Caption below the panel:]
:Science got way easier when we realized you were allowed to do studies just to rule stuff out.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Astronomy]]
[[Category:Science]]

Talk:2782: Wikipedia Article Titles

2023-05-31T11:47:04Z

172.70.86.2: Whoops, my error.

Of course, I had to search for those keywords and found this: [https://www.playbill.com/article/bulletin-meryl-streep-in-talks-to-do-seagull-in-central-park-com-87578 Playbill: Bulletin: Meryl Streep in Talks to Do Seagull in Central Park]. Couldn't find anything about a Seagull *incident*, however. We may have to wait until the production has completed. [[User:Shamino|Shamino]] ([[User talk:Shamino|talk]]) 13:44, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
:Or doesn't happen at all. The incident might be a fight between Streep and someone involved in the production. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 14:07, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
::Whatever happens we need to somehow inject the name "Meyrl Street seagull incident" into the news coverage so that the Wikipedia article can be created. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.101|172.70.162.101]] 14:24, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

'''''Ah-HAH!''''' https://www.salon.com/2001/08/27/seagull/ "a 40-ish man was found dead in the bushes from a single gunshot wound near the Delacorte Theater in Central Park, just yards away from where Philip Seymour Hoffman offs himself with a single gunshot wound every night as Konstantin Gavrilovich in Anton Chekhov's ''The Seagull.''" (in which Streep was his co-star.) Thanks to ChatGPT-4's WebPilot plug-in, by the way. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.134.214|172.69.134.214]] 17:24, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Re the transcript: I don't think they're called checkmarks. Tick marks, maybe.
[[Special:Contributions/172.71.182.232|172.71.182.232]] 18:00, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
:{{done}} [[Special:Contributions/172.69.134.96|172.69.134.96]] 18:14, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
::Well, given that {{w|Check mark}} and (redirected there, anyway) {{w|Tick mark}} don't actually refer to those things, I changed the transcript to use the {{w|Graduation (scale)}} terminology as the best(?) of various such terms that I'd more happily use. Which probably is going to annoy someone else, so maybe expect it to change again... [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.179|172.70.162.179]] 20:36, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
:::I did not do this transcript, but I have used the tick marks in numerous transcripts using charts like this. I'm not native English speaker, and there have never been anyone changing it before, and seems like another user also believed tick mark could be used... So it would be nice to find out of it is actually normal to use tick marks for the "ticks" on a graph axis, else there will be 100 of transcripts to fix (as I have been involved in writing most of them). I have never head of the graduation scale terminology...--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 07:55, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
::::Quick serach came up with [https://grapherhelp.goldensoftware.com/Axes/Tick_Marks.htm this page] using tick marks as I have always done, first after the wiki article on check marks which I have never heard called tick marks before. I will correct back to tick marks --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 07:56, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
:::: Microsoft refers to them as Tick Marks - don't know whether or not that counts as supporting evidence.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.152|172.70.91.152]] 15:39, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
::::: (...not sure MS is an authority, but...) Personally, I read "tick" as a ✓. And "check" is either such a [[2445: Checkbox|tick]] or [[1448: Question|a cross]] (there's also one with a tick/cross ambiguity, prompting much speculation here about positive/nevative meaning, but I can't recall which that one is right now).
::::: I might accept a "tally" marker (vertically, across x-axis, it 'counts' similarly to "five-barred" tally-marks, without the barring). "Graduation" (Graduierung?) does mean both this and the event of graduating (or undertaking the Eksamen?), but has less semantic overlap than a two-stroke diagonal and a single-stroke perpendicular (both of which feature in various comics). I think I'd ignore/change prior "graph axis 'check/tick' marks", depending on context, but it ''would'' be better to be unambiguously a scale-marking and not a confirmatory "this exists" indicator. If the right word can be found. (Grad-mark? Unit-mark?) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.129|172.70.90.129]] 10:33, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
::::::just look at {{w|Hatch mark}} (which is what these are), first line claims they are also called Tick marks. The existing redirect is incorrect. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.70|108.162.245.70]] 10:49, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
:::::::Looks like that page also [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/1157853432 suffers from arguments about what means what], which I'm not at all inclined to get involved with myself. Hatching, to me is more strictly pen/pencil-line shading across an area, but that's just my understanding and it takes all sorts. (Also, you shaved off the datetime signature of the comment you replied to. Repairing that.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.2|172.70.86.2]] 11:45, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

"User disambiguation pages" also exist. See http:/ /esolangs.org/wiki/User_talk:XKCD_Wrong_Times_Table and http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/XKCD_Wrong_Times_Table_(disambiguation) . [[Special:Contributions/172.69.22.126|172.69.22.126]] 02:07, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
:Those pages are not on Explain xkcd, is this spam? --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 07:55, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
::The first link looks like perhaps unintentional spam. I'm delinking it. In any case, the message is unclear. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.166.175|162.158.166.175]] 08:34, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

I think that an important addition to the possible "incident" would be one where a seagull named Meryl Streep caused or was the victim of it. I'll let you work out how to word it. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.19.7|172.68.19.7]] 14:52, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
:I suppose it could also be some incident between a mononymous Meryl and a streep seagull, whatever that is, but it feels like we're stretching. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.247.43|172.69.247.43]] 21:15, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Talk:2782: Wikipedia Article Titles

2023-05-31T11:45:59Z

172.70.86.2:

Of course, I had to search for those keywords and found this: [https://www.playbill.com/article/bulletin-meryl-streep-in-talks-to-do-seagull-in-central-park-com-87578 Playbill: Bulletin: Meryl Streep in Talks to Do Seagull in Central Park]. Couldn't find anything about a Seagull *incident*, however. We may have to wait until the production has completed. [[User:Shamino|Shamino]] ([[User talk:Shamino|talk]]) 13:44, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
:Or doesn't happen at all. The incident might be a fight between Streep and someone involved in the production. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 14:07, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
::Whatever happens we need to somehow inject the name "Meyrl Street seagull incident" into the news coverage so that the Wikipedia article can be created. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.101|172.70.162.101]] 14:24, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

'''''Ah-HAH!''''' https://www.salon.com/2001/08/27/seagull/ "a 40-ish man was found dead in the bushes from a single gunshot wound near the Delacorte Theater in Central Park, just yards away from where Philip Seymour Hoffman offs himself with a single gunshot wound every night as Konstantin Gavrilovich in Anton Chekhov's ''The Seagull.''" (in which Streep was his co-star.) Thanks to ChatGPT-4's WebPilot plug-in, by the way. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.134.214|172.69.134.214]] 17:24, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Re the transcript: I don't think they're called checkmarks. Tick marks, maybe.
[[Special:Contributions/172.71.182.232|172.71.182.232]] 18:00, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
:{{done}} [[Special:Contributions/172.69.134.96|172.69.134.96]] 18:14, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
::Well, given that {{w|Check mark}} and (redirected there, anyway) {{w|Tick mark}} don't actually refer to those things, I changed the transcript to use the {{w|Graduation (scale)}} terminology as the best(?) of various such terms that I'd more happily use. Which probably is going to annoy someone else, so maybe expect it to change again... [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.179|172.70.162.179]] 20:36, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
:::I did not do this transcript, but I have used the tick marks in numerous transcripts using charts like this. I'm not native English speaker, and there have never been anyone changing it before, and seems like another user also believed tick mark could be used... So it would be nice to find out of it is actually normal to use tick marks for the "ticks" on a graph axis, else there will be 100 of transcripts to fix (as I have been involved in writing most of them). I have never head of the graduation scale terminology...--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 07:55, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
::::Quick serach came up with [https://grapherhelp.goldensoftware.com/Axes/Tick_Marks.htm this page] using tick marks as I have always done, first after the wiki article on check marks which I have never heard called tick marks before. I will correct back to tick marks --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 07:56, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
:::: Microsoft refers to them as Tick Marks - don't know whether or not that counts as supporting evidence.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.152|172.70.91.152]] 15:39, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
::::: (...not sure MS is an authority, but...) Personally, I read "tick" as a ✓. And "check" is either such a [[2445: Checkbox|tick]] or [[1448: Question|a cross]] (there's also one with a tick/cross ambiguity, prompting much speculation here about positive/nevative meaning, but I can't recall which that one is right now).
::::: I might accept a "tally" marker (vertically, across x-axis, it 'counts' similarly to "five-barred" tally-marks, without the barring). "Graduation" (Graduierung?) does mean both this and the event of graduating (or undertaking the Eksamen?), but has less semantic overlap than a two-stroke diagonal and a single-stroke perpendicular (both of which feature in various comics). I think I'd ignore/change prior "graph axis 'check/tick' marks", depending on context, but it ''would'' be better to be unambiguously a scale-marking and not a confirmatory "this exists" indicator. If the right word can be found. (Grad-mark? Unit-mark?) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.129|172.70.90.129]] 10:33, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
(UTC)
::::::just look at {{w|Hatch mark}} (which is what these are), first line claims they are also called Tick marks. The existing redirect is incorrect. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.70|108.162.245.70]] 10:49, 31 May 2023
:::::::Looks like that page also [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/1157853432 suffers from arguments about what means what], which I'm not at all inclined to get involved with myself. Hatching, to me is more strictly pen/pencil-line shading across an area, but that's just my understanding and it takes all sorts. (Also, you shaved off the datetime signature of the comment you replied to. Repairing that.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.2|172.70.86.2]] 11:45, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

"User disambiguation pages" also exist. See http:/ /esolangs.org/wiki/User_talk:XKCD_Wrong_Times_Table and http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/XKCD_Wrong_Times_Table_(disambiguation) . [[Special:Contributions/172.69.22.126|172.69.22.126]] 02:07, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
:Those pages are not on Explain xkcd, is this spam? --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 07:55, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
::The first link looks like perhaps unintentional spam. I'm delinking it. In any case, the message is unclear. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.166.175|162.158.166.175]] 08:34, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

I think that an important addition to the possible "incident" would be one where a seagull named Meryl Streep caused or was the victim of it. I'll let you work out how to word it. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.19.7|172.68.19.7]] 14:52, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
:I suppose it could also be some incident between a mononymous Meryl and a streep seagull, whatever that is, but it feels like we're stretching. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.247.43|172.69.247.43]] 21:15, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

2782: Wikipedia Article Titles

2023-05-29T20:18:00Z

172.70.86.2: /* Explanation */ It seemed to be missing a "why are we even discussing these subjects" intro, before we jump into Ms Streep's link/etc.

{{comic
| number = 2782
| date = May 29, 2023
| title = Wikipedia Article Titles
| image = wikipedia_article_titles_2x.png
| imagesize = 402x439px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = I would never stoop to vandalism, but I'm not above discreetly deleting the occasional 'this article contains excessive amounts of detail' tag.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by MERYL STREEP'S SECOND SEAGULL. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

This comic is a chart reflecting where various Wikipedia articles (real or imagined) might rank in how effectively they would act as {{w|clickbait}} to [[Randall]].

{{w|Meryl Streep}} is a famous and widely acclaimed American actress. Randall apparently has little interest in reading about her. He appears to have slightly more interest in reading about seagulls, which on Wikipedia redirect to the {{w|Gull}} article, because "seagull" is a common colloquial synonym. Two more units down from "seagull" on Randall's scale indicating his increasing interest level, he suggests that a hypothetical Wikipedia link to "Meryl Streep (seagull)", which according to {{w|Wikipedia:Article titles#Precision|Wikipedia article title conventions}} refers to a notable seagull named Meryl Streep, would be more interesting to him.

Streep was a lead actress in a 2001 {{w|Delacorte Theatre}} production of {{w|Anton Chekhov}}'s play, ''{{w|The Seagull}}''.[https://playbill.com/article/the-seagull-opens-its-wings-in-central-park-aug-12-com-98105] A further three units beyond is a hypothetical link to an article about a "Meryl Streep Seagull incident", which while probably not conforming to {{w|Wikipedia:Article titles#Descriptive title|Wikipedia's requirements for sufficiently descriptive article titles}}, might refer to a notable event which occurred during the production of the 2001 play. According to an [https://www.salon.com/2001/08/27/seagull/ August 27, 2001 article in ''Salon''], "a 40-ish man was found dead in the bushes from a single gunshot wound near the Delacorte Theater in Central Park, just yards away from where [Streep's co-star] {{w|Philip Seymour Hoffman}} offs himself with a single gunshot wound every night as Konstantin Gavrilovich in Anton Chekhov's ''The Seagull.''" However, there is no hint of any direct connection between Streep and the deceased, and absent any clear evidence reported in {{w|Wikipedia:Reliable sources#News organizations|reliable news sources}} indicating that there is, it is extremely unlikely that Wikipedia editors would create or allow an article with a title suggesting there may be, as that would violate their {{w|Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons|Biographies of living persons policy}}.

Alternatively, such an article could be about an incident in which a seagull notably caused Meryl Streep problems, a time when Meryl Streep notably caused problems for a seagull, both, or other variations occurring in multiple incidents, as the final imagined Wikipedia page is a {{w|Wikipedia:Disambiguation|disambiguation page}} on such topics, depicted as four units even more likely to be more quickly clicked. Disambiguation pages are only necessary when there are multiple notable articles of sufficiently similar names which must be listed with clarifying details to avoid confusion. However, the titles of disambiguation pages rarely appear in links, as you usually reach them as a result of a search for an ambiguous term such as "{{w|go}}".

The title text suggests that Randall is a Wikipedia {{w|Deletionism and inclusionism in Wikipedia|inclusionist}}, and as such is not above occasionally deleting editorial message boxes claiming that their article contains too much detail.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
:[Chart title:] Hypothetical Wikipedia article titles
:[Chart subtitle:] Ranked by how quickly I would click on them

:[A vertical axis with eleven evenly spaced positions marked along it, without units or magnitudes]
:[An abbreviated arrow to the left of the axis indicates that downwards is:] More quickly
:[Alongside the topmost tick mark:] Meryl Streep
:[Alongside 2nd tick mark:] Seagull
:[Alongside 4th tick mark:] Meryl Streep (seagull)
:[Alongside 7th tick mark:] Meryl Streep seagull incident
:[Alongside 11th, and final visible, tick mark:] Meryl Streep seagull incident (disambiguation)

{{comic discussion}}

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