explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

2925: Earth Formation Site

2024-05-02T08:17:06Z

172.70.90.173: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 2925
| date = April 26, 2024
| title = Earth Formation Site
| image = earth_formation_site_2x.png
| imagesize = 478x521px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = It's not far from the sign marking the exact latitude and longitude of the Earth's core.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by TWO 4,450,002,024-YEAR-OLD PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES - Please this edit this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this historical tag too soon.}}

[[Cueball]] reads an historical marker celebrating the formation of the {{w|Earth}}. As with most historical markers, it claims to rest on the exact spot of the event, that the Earth formed in this specific location. It also specifies the Earth's formation to the precise year 4.45 billion ({{w|Long and short scales|4,450 million}}) BCE.

The absurdity of the sign is threefold:
# The Earth did not form on its surface
# The precise year of the Earth's formation is not knowable
# Historical markers typically refer to events within the past several centuries

'''#1: The Earth did not form on its surface'''

First, the Earth formed at its center, not anywhere on its surface, so an “Earth formed here” sign on the surface is amusingly incorrect.

One may argue that technically the sign is ''above'' the right spot, just as every location on Earth is above the right spot. However, the sign refers to “this location,” not to a spot underground.

If an omniscient observer wanted to mark the spot in space where the Earth started forming, they would need an historical marker floating in space, not on the surface of the (moving) Earth. That’s due to the {{w|Sun#Motion|Sun's 225-million year long orbit around the center of the}} {{w|Milky Way galaxy}} and the movement of the galaxy itself through space relative to other objects.

'''#2: The precise year of the Earth's formation is not knowable'''

Secondly, specifying a single year of formation BCE (Before the Common Era) is an amusingly precise choice. It takes [https://science.nasa.gov/exoplanets/how-do-planets-form/ tens or hundreds of millions of years] for a planet to form. Picking a year would require some specific definition of when a gradually-coalescing mass of proto-planet dust and gas could be considered a planet, as well as the impossible ability to determine when that mass met the definition.

If the precise year was knowable, the probability of the number actually ending in seven consecutive zeros would be on the order of one-in-ten-million.

The topic of what precisely makes a planet — related to the 2006 redefinition of a planet and the subsequent reclassification of Pluto from the solar system's ninth planet to a dwarf planet — has been covered before in [[473: Still Raw]] and referenced in other XKCD comics.

There is some poetry in the idea that there was a precise year, some 4.45 billion years ago, that was the first true year, the first Earth orbit around the sun. By definition, the Earth is the same age as the number of Earth orbits that have ever taken place.

Note: The date shown for the formation of the Earth, 4.45 billion years ago, also differs from the commonly accepted date, [https://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/geotime/age.html 4.54 (±0.05) billion years]. The difference lies in the transposition of two digits, 5 and 4, potentially a mistake, as is common in historical markers.

'''#3: Historical markers typically refer to events within the past several centuries'''

Historical markers are placed at precise locations where historical, religious, and even mythological events are believed to have happened — such as where battles have been fought, or where famous people resided or accomplished something. Typically these signs refer to more recent events.

'''The title text'''

The title text refers to the 'exact latitude and longitude of the Earth's core,’ Of course, since the lat-long geographic coordinate system is used for locating places on the ''surface'' on the Earth, the center of the Earth does not have latitude and longitude.

Also, a historical marker referring to the Earth’s core could be placed anywhere on the surface, and its specific location in the real world wouldn’t mean anything; just as before, every spot on Earth is above the right spot.

Examples of similar historical marker signs:
* {{w|File:Equator sign kenya.jpg|Kenya Equator latitude}}
* {{w|File:Arctic Circle sign.jpg|Arctic Circle latitude}}
* {{w|File:Prime meridian.jpg|Prime Meridian longitude}}
* {{w|File:2022-06-06 18 39 21 Sign reading "Highest Point on Interstate 80 East of the Mississippi River" along eastbound Interstate 80 (Keystone Shortway) just east of Exit 111 in Pine Township, Clearfield County, Pennsylvania.jpg|Highest Point}}
* {{w|File:World's lowest point (1971).jpg|Lowest Point}}

'''Analysis'''

The comic and its title text are actually inverse jokes of each other: The historical marker in the comic assigns an attribute of the Earth’s '''center''' (the site of formation) to a spot on its '''surface''', while the historical marker mentioned in the title text assigns an attribute of '''surface''' locations (latitude and longitude) to the Earth’s '''center'''.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Generated by EARTH — Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[Cueball is standing in front of a sign in a field of grass. Rocks and plants are scattered across the ground. The sign reads:]
:HISTORICAL MARKER
:<big>EARTH</big>
:FORMATION SITE
:--- 4,450,000,000 BCE ---
:At this location in the year 4,450,000,000 BCE, a cloud of dust and gas gravitationally collapsed to form the Earth.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Geology]]

2919: Sitting in a Tree

2024-04-13T11:19:46Z

172.70.90.173: /* Explanation */ lazy-ampersand now "and"ed; added comma; hyphens to dashes

{{comic
| number = 2919
| date = April 12, 2024
| title = Sitting in a Tree
| image = sitting_in_a_tree_2x.png
| imagesize = 591x320px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = First comes blood / Then we perish / Then comes Death in his Eternity Carriage.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a PAIR OF NERDS E-D-I-T-I-N-G - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

“[name] and [name], sitting in a tree, K-I-S-S-I-N-G” (or some other seven-letter word, almost always ending in “ing”), is a common taunt chanted among young children in the US, making fun of the romances of others, which are often seen as “gross” at that age.

This comic takes the variety of things which could be chanted to an unrealistic extreme, starting with relatively normal ones such as “hugging” and “reading” and progressing through increasingly disturbing ones. In each frame, the last possibility – kissing, ironing and smiting, respectively – is pictured.

The title text parodies a continuation of the song, "first comes love, then comes marriage, then comes baby in a baby carriage," with a dark prophecy about death.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[Three children are singing. A bowl cut kid and a young Hairy are pointing with their fingers, while Jill stands in the middle.]
:[name] and [name], sitting in a tree...

:[Label above the panel:]
:Normal
:[Cueball and Megan sitting on a tree branch holding hands and kissing, with a heart above them.]
:R-E-A-D-I-N-G
:S-I-N-G-I-N-G
:P-L-A-Y-I-N-G
:S-H-A-R-I-N-G
:H-U-G-G-I-N-G
:K-I-S-S-I-N-G

:[Label above the panel:]
:Slightly worrying
:[Cueball and Megan sitting on a tree branch ironing a cloth on ironing boards.]
:S-O-B-B-I-N-G
:I-T-C-H-I-N-G
:P-R-U-N-I-N-G
:B-A-N-K-I-N-G
:P-O-S-T-I-N-G
:I-R-O-N-I-N-G

:[Label above the panel:]
:Very alarming
:[Cueball and Megan sitting on a tree branch smiting with glowing hands, with fireballs and fire below them.]
:M-O-L-T-I-N-G
:W-H-A-L-I-N-G
:E-F-I-L-I-N-G
:M-E-L-T-I-N-G
:X-R-A-Y-I-N-G
:S-M-I-T-I-N-G

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Language]]
[[Category:Kids]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Jill]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Hairy]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Romance]]

Talk:2918: Tick Marks

2024-04-11T22:13:20Z

172.70.90.173:

The ticks on the y axis conceal the area of the graph between them. Why didn't Randall just build his graph so that the x axis did similar? Then he could keep up a continuous level of activity equal to the size of the ticks, rather than just doing short bursts to coincide with them.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.146|172.70.91.146]] 09:28, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
:Don't really know. But look, I was waiting all day yesterday for the Wednesday comic, so I'll take any comic at this point T_T [[User:Z1mp0st0rz|Z1mp0st0rz]] ([[User talk:Z1mp0st0rz|talk]]) 14:54, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
::It was at least half an hour before end-of-day-Midnight, for Randall's expected TZ. I know you're a new username, so perhaps you weren't aware that he often publishes (as best as we can pick up) ''quite late'' in the respective day (currently UTC+6). And it's also really not so much unknown to be (fairly) early in the following day (yet still officially on the relevent M/W/F).
::That doesn't mean we aren't often frustratingly gripped by antici.................pation, but we are very rarely stymied for more than a whole day (developmental delays to rolling out 'special comics', aside), and I think we are lucky to have such a conscientious creator as we do. It must be a hard schedule to keep up with. (And also that even if "not every one is a winner", ''most'' still are, for ''most'' people. Could be worse!) [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.110|172.71.178.110]] 15:12, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Should [[688: Self-Description]] also be linked as an example of "actual data is part of the graphical framing device"? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.39.12|172.70.39.12]] 21:01, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
:It already is linked, in the prior paragraph, and ''isn't'' quite so relevent to the flag-based variation (which is a kind of cousin to this tricky graph thing). But do rewrite it if you think it can be expounded better. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.173|172.70.90.173]] 22:13, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Talk:145: Parody Week: Dinosaur Comics

2024-03-20T15:37:20Z

172.70.90.173:

The word "bicurious" has also been referenced in Dinosaur Comics: [http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=311] [http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=312] [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.116|199.27.128.116]] 00:27, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
:Great, added for the explanation. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:21, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

The paragraph saying Randall is unfamiliar w/ genderqueer pronouns seems mistaken to me. He doesn't delve into a discussion of the different shades of meaning there, sure, but I think that's a stylistic choice consistent with making a readable comic --[[Special:Contributions/172.69.22.104|172.69.22.104]] 02:15, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

I think this page needs to be updated, as you don't need to be genderqueer to use neopronouns. Anyone can use whatever pronouns they want, and I don't agree that the definition of genderqueer on this page is the best one. In fact, the large majority of people who use neopronouns identify as non-binary, and this is seeming to show it's age.

Lolol. This one is kinda funny. But why are dinos in full color? [[Special:Contributions/172.68.34.61|172.68.34.61]] 14:51, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
:Because {{w|Dinosaur Comics}} is, and this is a full parody of that..? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.173|172.70.90.173]] 15:37, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

2895: Treasure Chests

2024-02-19T09:43:15Z

172.70.90.173: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 2895
| date = February 16, 2024
| title = Treasure Chests
| image = treasure_chests_2x.png
| imagesize = 287x488px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = [earlier] "Your vintage-style handmade chest business is struggling. But I have a plan."
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a- YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN! - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
This comic features [[Black Hat]] proposing a way to create significant business for a "lawn care company", for which the comic narrator has an attachment (perhaps owner or employee), albeit in an extremely unethical and possibly illegal manner which is very much congruent with Black Hat's character of being a '[[classhole]]'.

The first step of his plan is to create the conditions for a large number of lawns all over a certain town to be dug out, via a motivation of a large potential reward for digging up a lawn (in this case, a chest with $1,000 in the form of small silver and gold coins). Masking the effort, by waiting a year to let time obscure any obvious signs of disturbed earth and digging, introduces a large element of chance when everyone is finally informed of the concept. The subsequent digging up of many lawns, almost all unrelated to the original three with actual chests in, entices significant participation in Black Hat's scheme by everyone with firm-to-vague ideas of which lawns they might be, and whereabouts to dig within them, having filmed the burials in such a way that the subsequently posted videos are tantalizingly open to many interpretations as to where they actually were.

It is also possible that it leaves time for one or more chests to have been discovered prior to the 'start' of the deliberate competition to find them. So long as all three weren't (publicly) discovered, it leaves open the possibility that those competing to find the 'unfound' chests will continue with their efforts to find what is now unfindable, prolonging the exercise beyond the point at which all chests could be known to be discovered and that there are no more chances to gain their riches. Indeed, there is nothing to stop Black Hat from simply digging the chests back up once the videos have been filmed, so that he is not out $3000 and there is nothing to find, prolonging the search indefinitely.

However it pans out, this will create a demand for the services of "our lawn care company" as treasure-hunters feverishly work to gain wealth and/or fame, in the process damaging lawns all over town; their own or (with or without permission) those of others. It may create the craze for children to randomly attack neighbors' lawns (before or after their parents' ones), at least until they're effectively curfewed for the trouble, but is a large enough prize to attract teenagers and adults into such (possibly night-time) forays, all with the hope and expectation of a significant cash reward.

The many homeowners who soon find themselves with ruined lawns would then proceed to contact the lawn care company in order to fix the broken lawns, thus making the business lots of money. For the initial expenditure of $3000 (plus the cost of the containers, and other trivial overheads), a need for significant remediation work will be generated. According to the caption below the panel, the proposal set out by Black Hat turns out to be VERY profitable and EXTREMELY effective. It would be cheaper than most other forms of effective advertisement, such as {{w|Flyer (pamphlet)#Distribution and use|mass-flyering the catchment area}} or buying advertising time/space in traditional media, whilst being much more penetrating and focused than any but the most sophisticated (and expensive) forms of online advertising. As long as the 'competition' isn't actually linked to the lawn-care businesss, it also has the advantage that it can create a near maximum potential demand for the service without risking {{w|media fatigue}} and perhaps aversion to the product being advertised. There is no indication that this will be ever be promoted as the company's very own competition, which would probably actively drive the numerous victims of the scheme to find (or found!) rival businesses, not to mention risk the instigation of claims for recompense through civil liability.

The title text shows how Black Hat, before sharing his proposal in this comic, saw a struggling business that made vintage-style handmade chests and cooked up the lawn care plan as a way to boost their sales by generating demand for chests from the lawn company. Sales of three chests doesn't seem a significant uplift for the chest company, which potentially implies that Black Hat has pushed his treasure hunt scheme to multiple lawn care companies, each buying three chests. One can only speculate about what other companies he may have enticed to take part in this {{tvtropes|ChainOfDeals|chain of deals}}, at each point being paid for the pleasure (and keeping the accumulated proceeds), leaving arbitrary amounts of disruption in his wake.

As of the time of posting, [https://www.forbes.com/advisor/investing/silver-price/ silver prices] were roughly $23 per ounce / $8 per cm^3, and [https://www.forbes.com/advisor/investing/gold-price/ gold prices] were roughly $2000 per ounce / $1250 per cm^3, which means that any chest holding pure gold or silver coins would either be fairly small or very empty. Accounting for space between coins, a $1000 chest entirely containing silver coins would be only be filled between 1/8-1/4 liter / 1/2-1 cup, whereas $1000 would only constitute a single medium/large gold coin or a few small ones. However, 'gold' and 'silver' coins may simply refer to higher value coins made either partially from gold and silver, or from some other alloys that give gold and silver colourings.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[Black Hat is holding a treasure chest in one hand and pointing with a stick to a poster that features a shovel at the top, three circled X's below it, and five question marks around them.]
:Black Hat: First, I'll fill three of these chests with $1,000 each in small silver and gold coins, and take videos of them being buried in unidentified lawns around town.
:Black Hat: Next year, I post the videos.
:Black Hat: Then we sit back and let the local kids do the rest.

:[Caption below the panel:]
:The proposal for creating business for our lawn care company was unorthodox but ''extremely'' effective.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Black Hat]]

1547: Solar System Questions

2024-02-16T06:53:16Z

172.70.90.173: /* Explanation */ A->An, plus it's specifically the leading/trailing halves.

{{comic
| number = 1547
| date = July 6, 2015
| title = Solar System Questions
| image = solar_system_questions.png
| titletext = My country's World Cup win was exciting and all, but c'mon, what if the players wore nylon wings and COULD LITERALLY FLY?
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Some questions have received more complete answers in the past decade, but are not explained in much detail here. What have we learned since of all these things? Particularly: "What's Ceres like?" "Why is Iapetus weird-colored?" "Which of the other moons have seas?" "Why does Iapetus have a belt?" Gimme some science!}}

This comic is a list of questions which [[Randall]] has about the Solar System, which at first glance may appear to be things that Randall would like to learn about. In actuality, most of the questions have not been satisfactorily answered or proven by anyone in the {{w|List of unsolved problems in physics#Astronomy and astrophysics|scientific community}}. These open questions may serve to intrigue readers and prompt further interest in astronomy and austronautics.

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Question given
! Answered?
! Answer given by Randall (in red in the original)
! Comments
|-
| Why is the the Moon so blotchy?
|style="background: lightgreen" | Yes
| Lava
| The {{w|Moon}} is in synchronous rotation with Earth, which means that we always can see only one half of the surface of the Moon. And on that side we can see large {{w|lunar maria}} formed by lava from big volcanoes. This surface is very different from all other celestial bodies we know in our Solar system. The double "the the" could be a Randallism — intended or unintended.
|-
| Why are all the blotches on the near side?
|style="background: salmon" | No
| ...
| The nearside of the Moon is dominated by the blotchy 'seas' or maria, the far side by craters. {{w|Far side of the Moon#Differences|Several explanations}} for this have been proposed, including an overabundance of impacts obliterating the blotches on the more exposed far side, different compositions of heat-producing elements, large collisions, or heat produced by the still-cooling Earth.
|-
| Did Mars have seas?
|style="background: lightgreen" | Yes
| Yes (briefly?)
| Recent explorations have confirmed there was once standing (and also flowing) water on {{w|Mars}}. Many rovers and orbiters on Mars give us the evidence on this early development of that planet, but it is still unknown how long such conditions existed in its history. Two of these probes have been the subject of comics before: [[695: Spirit]] and [[1504: Opportunity]].
|-
| Was there life on Mars?
|style="background: salmon" | No
| ...
| One of the big mysteries, {{w|Life on Mars|not yet answered}}.
|-
| What's Titan like?
|style="background: lightyellow" | Partly
| Cold, yellow, lakes + rivers (methane)
| The {{w|Cassini–Huygens}} mission confirmed the presence of {{w|Lakes of Titan|lakes and rivers}} on {{w|Titan (moon)|Titan}}. The {{w|Huygens (spacecraft)#Findings|Huygens}} lander itself returned some very yellow images of a dry lake bed from Titan's surface. The possibility of life on Titan was mentioned in [[829: Arsenic-Based Life]].
|-
| What was Earth like during the Hadean?
|style="background: lightyellow" | Partly
| ...
| The {{w|Hadean}} was the first geologic era on Earth, the planet had just formed and not much is known of that period of Earth. But since it was the time when Earth was formed it was mainly very hot with extreme volcanic activity, with the entire surface melted. This is why the era is named after {{w|Hades}} the ancient Greek god of the underworld, even though Hades was never associated with fire.
|-
| Is the Oort Cloud a real thing?
|style="background: salmon" | No
| ...
| The {{w|Oort Cloud}} is a theoretical spherical cloud of icy planetesimals, maybe dust, and also larger objects at a distance of up to around 100,000 {{w|Astronomical units|AU}} from our Sun. We can see similar clouds at other stars, but there is still no evidence that this cloud exists in our Solar System.
|-
| Why is the Sun's corona so hot?
|style="background: lightyellow" | Maybe
| Something about magnets?
| The {{w|corona}} of the Sun is hotter than it theoretically should be. Tiny solar flares called {{w|nanoflares}} might be responsible. The Sun's {{w|Stellar magnetic field|magnetic field}} is almost certainly relevant.
|-
| What are comets like?
|style="background: lightgreen" | Yes
| Precipitous
| A comet can be dangerously steep: the {{w|Philae (spacecraft)|Philae lander}} finally stopped tumbling when it ran into a cliff.
|-
| Where's Philae, exactly?
|style="background: lightgreen" | Yes
| ...
| ...but we were not sure ''which'' cliff until September 5, 2016, when the European Space Agency announced that Philae had been found and photographed by Rosetta on the previous Friday (September 2). The landing of Philae was depicted in real time in the dynamic comic [[1446: Landing]]. This lasted for several hours. Later the comic was updated with a new image where Philae is resting on the edge of a cliff.
|-
| What's Pluto like?
| rowspan="2" style="background: lightyellow" | Partly
| rowspan="2" | [Soon!]
| rowspan="2" | {{w|Pluto}} is so far from Earth ''and'' so small that traditional telescopes couldn't discern much about it. When this comic was released, the probe {{w|New Horizons}} was eight days away from its closest approach to Pluto and its moon {{w|Charon (moon)|Charon}}; Randall was naturally excited about it. The probe was the subject of the comic [[1532: New Horizons]].
|-
| What's Charon like?
|-
| Why don't we have in-between-sized planets?
|style="background: salmon" | No
| ...
| There is a size-gap between the rocky {{w|terrestrial planets}} up to Earth size and the {{w|gas giants}} very much larger than Earth in our Solar System.
There are many known {{w|exoplanets}} (planets in other solar systems) filling in the range between our rocky planets and our gas giants, known as [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Exoplanet_Mass-Radius_Scatter_Super-Earth.png Super-earths] However, there is an observed but unexplained {{w|Small planet radius gap|scarcity of planets of this size category}} even among exoplanets.
|-
| What's Ceres like?
|style="background: lightyellow" | Partly
| [Working on it!]
| The {{w|Dawn (spacecraft)|Dawn probe}} was currently exploring the {{w|dwarf planet}} {{w|Ceres (dwarf planet)|Ceres}} at the time that this comic was written and released. We now know.
|-
| Why is Europa so weird-looking and pretty?
|style="background: lightgreen" | Yes
| Ice over a water ocean
| {{w|Europa (moon)|Europa}} is a moon of {{w|Jupiter}} and the surface is basically thick pack ice covered in {{w|lineae}}.
|-
| Why is Io so weird-looking?
|style="background: lightyellow" | Partly
| Sulfur volcanoes (? in the wrong places?)
| The moon {{w|Io (moon)|Io}} is also orbiting Jupiter and is close enough that {{w|tidal forces}} make it the most volcanic object in the solar system. The moon is mainly yellow but there are several other colors on the surface, for instance spots and streaks of bright red that comes from {{w|sulfur}} ejected by the volcanoes. The "wrong places" refer to some volcanoes discovered by the {{w|Voyager program|Voyager missions}} and believed to erupt sulfur. But more recent measurements showed that the temperature inside those volcanoes is about 2000 °C where this element is not liquid anymore but gas.
|-
| Why are so many Kuiper Belt objects red?
|style="background: lightyellow" | Maybe
| ...
| Many objects in the {{w|Kuiper Belt}} have a reddish hue. A possible explanation is that they are [http://www.space.com/9418-icy-red-objects-solar-system-edge-point-life-building-blocks.html covered in organic molecules] formed by the irradiation of their surface ices. The New Horizons probe might also shed light on this.
|-
| What are those spots on Ceres?
|style="background: salmon" | No
| ...
| The Dawn probe found some mysterious spots on Ceres. These [http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpeg/PIA19568.jpg white spots] are still not understood, but the mission is still running and we may figure out the source of the glowing white features. These spots became the punch line of the joke in [[1476: Ceres]].
|-
| What's in the seas under Europa's ice?
|style="background: salmon" | No
| ...
| The {{w|ESA}} selected the mission {{w|Jupiter Icy Moon Explorer|Jupiter Icy Moon Explorer (JUICE)}} to Jupiter. The moon Europa is one target for that mission. But we have to wait, because, even though it has already launched on 14 April 2023, its arrival at Jupiter is planned for 2031. But that's not uncommon for missions like this. New Horizons and {{w|Rosetta (spacecraft)|Rosetta}} also traveled approximately ten years to reach their targets. And before such a mission can start many preparations have to be done. {{w|2010: Odyssey Two}} is a 1982 science fiction novel by {{w|Arthur C. Clarke}} in which he envisions life under the ice on Europa. This life becomes a major plot point both in this and in the two sequels.
|-
| Which of the other moons have seas?
|style="background: lightyellow" | Partly
| Several
| Randall has already mentioned above that there are liquids on two moons. The moon Titan at Saturn has lakes on its surface formed by liquid ethane, methane, and propane and the Jupiter's moon Europa has a sea of water covered by a thick sheet of ice. Depending on the definition of 'sea', other less obviously 'frozen water world' moons such as {{w|Ganymede (moon)|Ganymede}} at Jupiter may have {{w|Ganymede (moon)#Subsurface oceans|subsurface}} [http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn27151-aurora-reveals-jupiter-moons-secret-subsurface-sea.html oceans] of liquid water and on other moons it could be other substances that are liquid at the relevant temperature, like on Titan.
|-
| What are the big white things in Titan's lakes?
|style="background: lightgreen" | Yes
| ...
| This is a joke about some gaps in the radar measurements as shown in [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PIA10008_Seas_and_Lakes_on_Titan_full_size.jpg this image].
|-
| What do Jupiter's clouds look like up close?
|style="background: salmon" | No
| ...
| The Jupiter mission {{w|Galileo (spacecraft)|Galileo}}, operated by NASA and the German Aerospace Center (DLR), arrived at Jupiter in 1995 and was sent to impact the planet at the end of that mission in 2003 to eliminate the possibility of contaminating local moons with terrestrial bacteria. Several measurements were done on the atmosphere but no pictures were sent back to Earth. So there is still no answer on this question.
|-
| What's all that red stuff in the Great Red Spot?
|style="background: salmon" | No
| ...
| The {{w|Great Red Spot}} is a storm south of Jupiter's equator. Observations from Earth show a lifespan of more than 150 years. It's unknown why it's stable for that long a time and it's also not clear why the color is red. The probe {{w|Juno (spacecraft)|Juno}} has arrived in July 2016 at Jupiter but has not answered Randall's question.
|-
| What's pushing the Pioneer probes?
|style="background: lightgreen" | Yes
| Heat from the RTG
| Discussed as the {{w|Pioneer anomaly}}. RTG stands for {{w|Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator}}. This effect was mentioned (and explained a little differently) in the title text of [[502: Dark Flow]].
|-
| What pushes spacecraft slightly during flybys?
|style="background: salmon" | No
| ...
| Several spacecraft experienced unexplained speed increases during Earth flybys. This is called the {{w|flyby anomaly}}.
|-
| Where are all the Sun's neutrinos?
|style="background: lightyellow" | Maybe partly
| Oscillating
| There are fewer observed electron neutrinos from the Sun than the standard model predicts. This is called the {{w|Solar neutrino problem}}. Since the sum of all the neutrinos, regardless of type, that come from the Sun add up to the predicted number of electron neutrinos it is theorized that neutrinos can change their type. This is called {{w|Neutrino oscillation}}, and can occur only if {{w|neutrinos}} have mass. Neutrino oscillation is considered a proof that the mass of a neutrino is non-zero. The {{w|Neutrino#Mass|mass of a neutrino}} is not yet measured and is one of the problems on the {{w|List of unsolved problems in physics#High-energy physics.2Fparticle physics|list of unsolved problems in physics}} on Wikipedia.
|-
| Why is there so much air on Titan?
|style="background: salmon" | No
| ...
| {{w|Titan (moon)|Titan}} has an atmospheric pressure 1.45 times that of Earth, but only 1/7th of the surface gravity which is less than Earth's own airless Moon has, hence the confusion. In fact, Titan actually has almost 20% more atmosphere by mass than Earth, and ''seven times'' more atmosphere across a given surface area! Less influence from the more distant Sun probably helps retain more of the atmosphere's gases (for instance, Mars saw most of its atmosphere blasted away by the Sun), and {{w|cryovolcanoes}} may replenish the methane fraction which should by now have ''all'' been converted into the other hydrocarbons present from subsurface reservoirs. Further studies are required to properly answer this question.
|-
| Why does the Kuiper Belt stop?
|style="background: salmon" | No
| ...
| A reference to the {{w|Kuiper Cliff}}. Most Kuiper Belt Objects are found between 42 and 48 {{w|astronomical units|AU}}; calculations predicted that there would be more and larger KBOs beyond 50 AU, but instead very few objects have been found in that region. The reason for this is still unknown.
|-
| Why is Iapetus weird-colored?
|style="background: lightyellow" | Partly
| ...
| {{w|Iapetus (moon)|Iapetus}} is an icy moon of {{w|Saturn}} and always keeps the same face towards Saturn. The trailing hemisphere is bright, with the leading one notably darker.
|-
| Why does Iapetus have a belt?
|style="background: salmon" | No
| ...
| Iapetus has a 13 km high ridge around most of the equator, and a number of 10-km-high mountains where the ridge is interrupted.
|-
| What's the deal with Miranda?
|style="background: salmon" | No
| ...
| {{w|Miranda (moon)|Miranda}} is the smallest of {{w|Uranus}}' five round satellites, and it's {{w|Verona Rupes|a bit rough around the edges}} and also has an unusually high orbital inclination that is difficult to explain. Also possibly a [[Category:Firefly|''Firefly'' reference]] since {{w|List of Firefly planets and moons#Miranda|Miranda}} is also the name of a planet in {{w|Serenity (film)|''Serenity''}}, a film based on the {{w|Firefly (TV series)|''Firefly''}} TV series.
|-
| Did Uranus and Neptune change places?
|style="background: salmon" | No
| ...
| The {{w|Nice model}} is a theory of how our solar system formed, which suggests the possibility of Uranus and {{w|Neptune}} having swapped places before reaching their current positions. Work by Professor S. Desch [http://dusty.la.asu.edu/~desch/publications/2007/Desch2007.pdf also came to this result].
|-
| Did the Late Heavy Bombardment happen?
|style="background: salmon" | No
| ...
| The {{w|Late Heavy Bombardment}} is the name given to a theorized bombardment of the planet Earth during its early history, along with the other rocky planets around the Sun. It's believed that during that time many large objects still existed and are likely to have impacted the planets. On Earth the evidence for those impacts would have been destroyed, but on the Moon or Mercury some evidence may be available.
|-
| Did life start before it?
|style="background: salmon" | No
| ...
| For some speculation on this topic, see [http://www.livescience.com/5426-life-survived-earth-early-bombardment.html Life Could Have Survived Earth's Early Bombardment]. It is still a mystery if life was formed on Earth first or if it came from outer space.
|-
| Is Europa covered in ice spikes?
|style="background: salmon" | No
| ...
|Dr Daniel Hobley has put forward a [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-21341176 theory] that Jupiter's icy moon {{w|Europa (moon)|Europa}} has the right conditions to form ice spikes called {{w|Penitente (snow formation)|penitentes}} of up to 10m in height.
|-
| Why haven't we built a big inflatable Extreme Sports Complex on The Moon?
|style="background: lightyellow" | Partly
| ...
| The only silly item besides the "white on Titan's lakes" question, this question is less about science than about human priorities. It would be fun to watch sports in such a stadium - see the title text. Building a sports complex on the Moon would be prohibitively expensive in the context of government budgets, and transporting athletes to such a venue regularly would be logistically and financially complex. But it would be extremely cool.

See also, ''{{w|The Menace From Earth}}'', a 1957 short story by Robert Heinlein, as well as [https://what-if.xkcd.com/124/ What If # 124] which gives great detail to the topic of lunar swimming.
|}

The title text refers to the {{w|2015 FIFA Women's World Cup}} which was won by the USA the day before. The nylon wings and flying may be a reference to two passages from 3001: The Final Odyssey, one where Frank Poole tries out various wings while in an extremely low gravity environment, and one where he remarks while watching Swan Lake that Tchaikovsky could never have imagined a performance where the dancers were actually flying (due to aforementioned low gravity). This is also a reference to the last point on the list, because if we had such a stadium on the Moon, maybe it would be possible to use such wings to make very long floating leaps.

==Transcript==
:'''Questions I have'''
:'''about the solar system'''
:(some answered)

:{| class="wikitable" style="border: 0px;"
|-
| style="border: 0px; text-align: right" | Why is the the Moon so blotchy?
| style="border: 0px; color:red;" | Lava
|-
| style="border: 0px; text-align: right" | Why are all the blotches on the near side?
| style="border: 0px;" |
|-
| style="border: 0px; text-align: right" | Did Mars have seas?
| style="border: 0px; color:red;" | Yes (briefly?)
|-
| style="border: 0px; text-align: right" | Was there life on Mars?
| style="border: 0px;" |
|-
| style="border: 0px; text-align: right" | What's Titan like?
| style="border: 0px; color:red;" | Cold, yellow, lakes + rivers (methane)
|-
| style="border: 0px; text-align: right" | What was Earth like during the Hadean?
| style="border: 0px;" |
|-
| style="border: 0px; text-align: right" | Is the Oort Cloud a real thing?
| style="border: 0px;" |
|-
| style="border: 0px; text-align: right" | Why is the Sun's corona so hot?
| style="border: 0px; color:red;" | Something about magnets?
|-
| style="border: 0px; text-align: right" | What are comets like?
| style="border: 0px; color:red;" | Precipitous
|-
| style="border: 0px; text-align: right" | Where's Philae, exactly?
| style="border: 0px;" |
|-
| style="border: 0px; text-align: right" | What's Pluto like?
| style="border: 0px; color:red;" rowspan="2" | [Soon!]
|-
| style="border: 0px; text-align: right" | What's Charon like?
|-
| style="border: 0px; text-align: right" | Why don't we have in-between-sized planets?
| style="border: 0px;" |
|-
| style="border: 0px; text-align: right" | What's Ceres like?
| style="border: 0px; color:red;" | [Working on it!]
|-
| style="border: 0px; text-align: right" | Why is Europa so weird-looking and pretty?
| style="border: 0px; color:red;" | Ice over a water ocean
|-
| style="border: 0px; text-align: right" | Why is Io so weird-looking?
| style="border: 0px; color:red;" | Sulfur volcanoes (? in the wrong places?)
|-
| style="border: 0px; text-align: right" | Why are so many Kuiper Belt objects red?
| style="border: 0px;" |
|-
| style="border: 0px; text-align: right" | What are those spots on Ceres?
| style="border: 0px;" |
|-
| style="border: 0px; text-align: right" | What's in the seas under Europa's ice?
| style="border: 0px;" |
|-
| style="border: 0px; text-align: right" | Which of the other moons have seas?
| style="border: 0px; color:red;" | Several
|-
| style="border: 0px; text-align: right" | What are the big white things in Titan's Lakes?
| style="border: 0px;" |
|-
| style="border: 0px; text-align: right" | What do Jupiter's clouds look like up close?
| style="border: 0px;" |
|-
| style="border: 0px; text-align: right" | What's all that red stuff in the Great Red Spot?
| style="border: 0px;" |
|-
| style="border: 0px; text-align: right" | What's pushing the Pioneer Probes?
| style="border: 0px; color:red;" | Heat from the RTG
|-
| style="border: 0px; text-align: right" | What pushes spacecraft slightly during flybys?
| style="border: 0px;" |
|-
| style="border: 0px; text-align: right" | Where are all the Sun's Neutrinos?
| style="border: 0px; color:red;" | Oscillating
|-
| style="border: 0px; text-align: right" | Why is there so much air on Titan?
| style="border: 0px;" |
|-
| style="border: 0px; text-align: right" | Why does the Kuiper Belt Stop?
| style="border: 0px;" |
|-
| style="border: 0px; text-align: right" | Why is Iapetus weird-colored?
| style="border: 0px;" |
|-
| style="border: 0px; text-align: right" | Why does Iapetus have a belt?
| style="border: 0px;" |
|-
| style="border: 0px; text-align: right" | What's the deal with Miranda?
| style="border: 0px;" |
|-
| style="border: 0px; text-align: right" | Did Uranus and Neptune change places?
| style="border: 0px;" |
|-
| style="border: 0px; text-align: right" | Did the Late Heavy Bombardment happen?
| style="border: 0px;" |
|-
| style="border: 0px; text-align: right" | Did life start before it?
| style="border: 0px;" |
|-
| style="border: 0px; text-align: right" | Is Europa covered in ice spikes?
| style="border: 0px;" |
|-
| style="border: 0px; text-align: right" | Why haven't we built a big inflatable extreme sports complex on the moon?
| style="border: 0px;" |
|}

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics with color]]
[[Category:Charts]]
[[Category:Soccer]]
[[Category:Space probes]]
[[Category:Astronomy]]
[[Category:Firefly]]

Talk:2891: Log Cabin

2024-02-16T02:41:32Z

172.70.90.173:

:: "''The odd part about it is the bottom right corner, which appears to be infinitely recursive copies..''"
The whole right side is the left side, shrunk and recursed. Each iteration rotated 90 degrees. The 'shrink' is about 1.616 by my squint, a lot like a "[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio Golden Ratio]" LOGarithmic spiral, as NickM says. [[User:PRR|PRR]] ([[User talk:PRR|talk]]) 19:49, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

::This is a LOGarithmic spiral [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.103|172.70.210.103]] 19:52, 7 February 2024 (UTC)NickM

:: It is precisely the golden ratio, assuming the left side is a square [[User:Terdragontra|Terdragontra]] ([[User talk:Terdragontra|talk]]) 22:09, 7 February 2024 (UTC)`

:: Note how the spiral cuts the smaller bedrooms wardrobe in half, intersects the two doorframes of the rooms leading off the master bedroom, the toilet and the sink. [https://xkcd.com/1488/ The majesty of the spiral! 🌀] [[Special:Contributions/172.69.79.189|172.69.79.189]] 11:20, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Assuming a standard 36" wide front door, then the next "front" door would be 22.27 inches, then 13.78 inches, then 8.53 inches, at which point I doubt the inspector could squeeze through it, though I guess they could still take a peek inside the next recursion. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.34.58|172.68.34.58]] 20:57, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

:: That's enough for the inspector to verify that the plans are *not* up to code; you can't get a wheelchair into the right-hand side of the house. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.79.189|172.69.79.189]] 11:16, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Infinite bedrooms, infinite baths, close to schools and shopping. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.247.48|172.69.247.48]] 21:00, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
::Government: Your property tax comes up to infinite dollars. --[[Special:Contributions/172.71.26.160|172.71.26.160]] 21:45, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
:: In some jurisdictions bedrooms need to have at least one externally facing window. Under this rule there are infinite rooms with beds, but only 8 bedrooms. [[User:Thaledison|Erin Anne]] ([[User talk:Thaledison|talk]]) 17:07, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
::: Only 7 bedrooms. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.18.138|162.158.18.138]] 22:16, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
:::: Looks like eight to me. In the first 'set', both 'main' and 'minor' rooms have windows on west wall (plus north/south, respectively). In second set, that west wall is rotated to north (plus north now to east, while south becomes wall-only west). Third set it be becomes an east wall (plus south for Main). Fourth set rotates the shared external wall to south (the main's other wall is now also internal). For the fifth-plus, that w>n>e>s wall is west again, but internalised. So four pairs of bedrooms all have (at least) one wall with windows, then no more. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.173|172.70.90.173]] 02:41, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Interesting comparison with the archetypal "labyrinth". It's actually a fractal version that only avoids being unicursal-with-no-dead-ends due to the off-living-room private spaces being quite trivial offshoots. Which arguably makes it ''fairly'' classical in nature. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.114|172.70.90.114]] 21:18, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Should there be a mention that due to the limitations of the image format, it only actually achieves eight iterations? Which makes sense given that construction materials also have limits, and is still enough that the inspectors might be a bit confused if they don't pay close enough attention. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.60.216|172.69.60.216]] 23:21, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Write it [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2891:_Log_Cabin&diff=prev&oldid=334498 how you want], I just wanted to avoid calling a room with no bath (but a shower) as a "bathroom", especially when I was mentioning a 'bathroom' with an actual bath in it so soon after. Not that there's a completely unambiguous term for the room with the toilet/lavatory/whatever in it. (For reference, for me it's "the toilet", despite that also being the porceline item itself, and even that is derived from a hairdressing cloth, through a string of euphemisms. But knew that wouldn't be accepted by the wider readership.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.26|172.70.85.26]] 01:49, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
:In the USA, any room with a toilet and sink is typically called a "bathroom" whether or not there is a literal bath within. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.131.3|172.70.131.3]] 09:33, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
::Don't think it's particularly a US/UK thing - it's pretty commonly called a 'bathroom' in the UK too. I think the point of the editor above was the potential for confusion between the ''two'' 'bathrooms', and how to avoid it.[[Special:Contributions/172.69.43.243|172.69.43.243]] 09:44, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
::It's my experience in the US that real-estate parlance counts a full bathroom as toilet, sink, and tub / shower. It counts a half-bathroom as a toilet and sink only. A house with 1 full bath and two half-baths would generically be considered 3 bathrooms but not listed that way. I don't know what they would call a standalone tub or shower, if any such thing is ever constructed unless it is adjacent to an outdoor swimming pool. [[User:Rtanenbaum|Rtanenbaum]] ([[User talk:Rtanenbaum|talk]]) 01:37, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
::Could you not just call it lavatory? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.58.81|172.69.58.81]] 00:07, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
:Using a language that allows to say "S***house" in a nice way (praised be the diminutive!) helps in such cases...[[User:Tier666|Tier666]] ([[User talk:Tier666|talk]]) 10:15, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
::There is a {{wiktionary|Thesaurus:bathroom|truly astounding range of terms}}, in English alone, (and I can think of several not included there, even discounting the rather localised overly-vulgar ''or'' overly-polite ones). [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.221|172.70.90.221]] 11:38, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
Are there any non-Euclidean geometries in which you could fit this house without having to shrink the rooms or the people? [[Special:Contributions/172.68.3.44|172.68.3.44]] 16:42, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
:The logarithmic scaling should be compatible with [[wikipedia:Hyperbolic_geometry|hyperbolic geometry]]. However, the distance metric changes continuously in such a geometry. Here you'd probably need something like a discrete mapping that maps the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. iteration of the outer cabin layout to its proper scaling and rotation. (I vaguely know the concepts but can't do it properly) [[User:Transgalactic|Transgalactic]] ([[User talk:Transgalactic|talk]]) 09:21, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
::If we're committed to discontinuities (at least in undifferentiatable senses), we can just treat the floorplans as separately just traditional Euclidean but the main doors between 'levels' as a wormhole/portal. Moreover, one which could satisfy the rescaling requirement, (the 'door frame' outward is at the same metric of width/height as the inward one; ''as well as'' the inward one of one layer out, which is not experienced as a funnel). In a connected-voxel manner (as one might render it in virtual terms), every level of square-property has the exact same internal consistency.
::Save for the windows, which are additional portals limited only to the primary property (present on three walls, all but the 'inward exit' direction), secondary/tertiary ones (two walls, having both lost the 'entry wall' externality that faces their predecessor property) and quaternary (one windowed wall, now enclosed by the prime-property). All these windows similarly portal to the zeroth-level exterior (irregularly spaced, but 'proper-sized'), and of course whilst the 'obscured walls' (including all from quinary-level and beyond) could be not denied windows by being portaled to some surrogate external wall (infinite, necessarily!), in this example they are not.
::This renders the plans shown as 'wrong' (door widths are scaled differently at both inward and outward locations, with a single square sub-property, and such windows as exist from sub-levels (all nine window-outers on the external south-wall should be the same size as the nine inner windows from the primary square's outward-walls, not just the two and the door which are the direct identical ones).
::Thus rescaling issues as one traverses doors (or windows) go away. It does leave dissimilar distances inside and out (speed-of-light communications out of a Level 4 window and into a Level 1 one could be faster than any 'direct' through-wall one, if allowed, and of course diffracted propogation only via door-portals would be slower), but we're already talking of [https://wiki.lspace.org/Empirical_Crescent wormholing between/across domains], so our only real issue is how/if ''arbitrary'' knocking-through of holes through walls can be allowed (once the building is somehow BS Johnsoned into existence, perhaps at some point necessitating at least a countable infinity of builders/decorators). [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.105|141.101.98.105]] 10:45, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

One way to build this would be with robotics that alter the structure as the visitor moves, like a holodeck. This could give the perception of the visitor shrinking forever, and the robotics wouldn’t let them leave until they rewalked their entry path. Another way would be to just make the rooms get too tiny to enter and hide the missing ones around a corner. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.166.6|162.158.166.6]] 16:58, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
:I'm sure it could be done with the Gallifreyan technology that produced the TARDIS. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 17:39, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
:: Indeed: [https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/tardis/images/d/d2/The_Monk_cannot_get_into_his_TARDIS.JPG] {{unsigned|Jgharston|12:45, 13 February 2024}}
::: That sort of thing happens in [https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Flatline_(TV_story) nuWho era], too! [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.76|141.101.98.76]] 13:08, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
:maybe somebody will 3d print a tiny one some day. i websearched but didn’t even get any hits for “robotic maze moving walls” ! this is surprising to me in this decade. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.142.15|172.71.142.15]]

Has anyone else thought of a cabin log? The horror story kind, with a spiraling captain? [[User:Transgalactic|Transgalactic]] ([[User talk:Transgalactic|talk]]) 09:21, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Talk:2889: Greenhouse Effect

2024-02-05T16:47:58Z

172.70.90.173:

First description! FIRST 🤑 [[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]] ([[User talk:42.book.addict|talk]]) 18:45, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

Is there a category or a name for the set of comics which make the observation of "x thing happened closer to Y thing than today"? --[[User:Raviolio|Raviolio]] ([[User talk:Raviolio|talk]]) 18:57, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
:Maybe Category:Timelines could work? [[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]] ([[User talk:42.book.addict|talk]]) 19:00, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
:It is also similar in structure to many of the comics in [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Category:Comics_to_make_one_feel_old| Category:Comics to make one feel old] but has a quite different theme [[Special:Contributions/172.69.6.156|172.69.6.156]] 23:06, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

Do we have a source for the "their answers closely match modern estimates"? that would be a good thing to add [[User:Happier7713|Happier7713]] ([[User talk:Happier7713|talk]]) 19:35, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

A nit -- the Newcomen atmospheric engine was invented in 1712 and is usually thought of as the first steam engine (at least of the modern, western, world). {{unsigned ip|108.162.245.36 |20:25, 2 February 2024}}
:The Newcomen was certainly started it, and tends to be somewhat overshadowed (I actually walked past ''the'' oldest still-in-place Newcomen beam engine, earlier today... never seen it working (by hydrau;ics, these days), but it's there). But its practical efficiency was limited by its operation, and it took (Boulton and) Watt to make it into the potentially mobile powerhouse that drove much of the really developed stuff (beyond mine-drainage/etc).
:Of course, it was also more fuel efficient, so if we'd have somehow done exactly the same amount of IR via Newcomen-style machines then we'd probably have accelerated the burning of resources across the same period, so... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.49|162.158.74.49]] 00:10, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

I would say we did plenty of work. In 1896, noone had any idea what renewable energy is. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 23:48, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

:There have been windmills and watermills and fire from wood for thousands of years. The real problem is fossils, which release co2 from millions of years. In my opinion, it's about the attitude of "the right to consume" instead of "the right to use". --[[User:LaVe|LaVe]] ([[User talk:LaVe|talk]]) 06:35, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

“yet after 128 years there’s been close to no progress to changing our infrastructure to be renewable-energy based.” That might or might not be true, depending on how you define “close to no progress” but regardless of that, the comic does not make any such claim, and that part should be deleted frm the explanation of the comic. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.186.35|162.158.186.35]] 05:06, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

:Given what has appeared in other xkcd comics with a global-warming theme, I think the "close to no progress" reaction is permissible. Whether it is accurate is remarkably hard for me to pin down. A study I found in 2014 said that annual per-capita energy consumption in the USA rose from 100MM to 350MM BTUs between 1900 and 1973, and has since remained almost constant. 1973, of course, was the Arab oil embargo, which stimulated massive investment in energy efficiency that continue to the present day. Each of us now uses many more things for the same energy - but the population is increasing, therefore so is the bulk carbon-dioxide loading. A 2023 US Government attempt to forecast energy use in the USA between now and 2050, I found to be both unreadable and unhelpful in terms of assessing whether we are gaining on energy efficiencies and transition to renewables. There simply were too many variables in the inputs. And as 2020 demonstrated, our response to energy challenges will be forced by economics, not climate politics or comics IMO. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.150.168|172.71.150.168]] 07:22, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

I was unable to find an article by "Crawford 1997" in which either of the quotes cited in the title text appear in full. They might appear in other articles included in the [https://www.jstor.org/stable/i399217 special issue of the journal Ambio] devoted to the work that Arrhenius and colleagues did in the last decade of the 19th century. The two articles by Elisabeth Crawford in that journal, one sole-authored and one co-authored, provide considerable context for the discovery, including the various competing theories about global warming that were being debated among scientists at the time, and the remarkable observation by Arrhenius that such warming was not a bad thing. According to the Crawford sole-authored paper, Arrhenius wrote (translation from Swedish), "It [global warming] "will allow our descendants, even if they only be those of a distant future, to live under a warmer sky and in a less harsh environment than we were granted." [[Special:Contributions/172.71.151.130|172.71.151.130]] 07:04, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
:I feel this assessment should be included in the explanation. Not just because it hints at one reason for climate inaction in cold-to-temperate regions. It also points to a central issue of climate justice: A ''White'' Swedish scientist in 1895 thought of milder winters, but people closer to the equator, who were summarily ignored by the ''White'' scientific community on racist grounds in 1895, are now about to face physically unbearable hothouse conditions. The quote also shows how little this scientist knew about the land that sustained him - every peasant whom he would have bothered to ask could have told him that a +8°C change in temperatures would have devastating effects on agriculture because most plants can't adapt to it and agricultural knowledge of the local soil and climate, that has been painstakingly developed over centuries of famine, would be rendered mostly useless, everywhere. [[User:Transgalactic|Transgalactic]] ([[User talk:Transgalactic|talk]]) 13:22, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
::I contemplated doing so, but refrained, because I feared it would transform an explanation into a polemic. The main point of the comic, I argue, is that humans have known about global warming, and anthropogenic carbon dioxide's role in it, for far longer than most of today's narratives state, and, in an explanation, it is sufficient to point this out. Those with Bibles may find the ethical underpinnings for this comic and its message in the [https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%209&version=NRSVUE ninth chapter of John], particularly v. 41: “If you were blind, you would not have sin. But now that you say, ‘We see,’ your sin remains." For my part, I find the principal explanation for climate inaction (not just in the temperate zones, air-conditioning fans) in the concept of "personal advantage". I once estimated that, to bring per-capita energy use in the USA, anno 2014, down to the level current in 1957, that use (thanks to population increase) would have to correspond with energy usage in 1900. No aircraft, few cars, almost no electricity infrastructure and therefore nothing that depends on that infrastructure. I have not attempted to estimate what the energy usage would have to be to bring today's per-capita allotment to the level current in 1896; I suspect it would require the dismantling of the Industrial Revolution in its entirety. In token of this, I used to walk two miles each way to work. A co-worker saw this, patted me on the head, said "That's nice", and drove off, alone, in deir SUV. Oh ... the co-worker led a climate-change research lab. No one will willingly accept a reduction in standard of living, and, I argue, any attempt to force this will put authoritarian climate deniers at the head of government everywhere. Nor do I accept that [https://www.dude-n-dude.com/2020/08/23/kris-an-murphy-wunderwaffe/ Wunderwaffe] will save us ... and those concerned with "climate justice" may well ask who among us can afford such toys.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.33|108.162.245.33]] 16:18, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
:::Yes, that kept me from adding the point directly. It must be done ''very carefully''. Still, the title text - which quotes Arrhenius in a misleading context to make that point! - seems to bring up the question if climate change is just a "trifling" change in lifestyle ("warmer skies") or an existential threat (general assessment these days), so it feels like part of the explanation. @108.162.245.33: Climate justice is not so much about technology as it is about fair access to mitigation. You're asking if each US citizen could afford the time, effort and money for a change in polluting habits. But none of the people who are and will be dying of climate change can afford your and my current habits. We've got centuries of "right to exploit & consume" attitude / experience with exploitation to repair, which obviously requires a concerted effort, not just individual tweaking. xkcd's reach goes well into the most affected areas, I would like to see that taken into account. (e.g. I suspect middle-class urban India to be avid readers, and to be well aware that ACs won't work for a barely electrified slum district at +42°C, and that the problem isn't so much the lack of ACs, but the poverty of slums, and the +42°C) [[User:Transgalactic|Transgalactic]] ([[User talk:Transgalactic|talk]]) 10:17, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
::::"Climate justice is not so much about technology as it is about fair access to mitigation." Yes. This is precisely the point that "who can afford such toys" was intended to address. I submit that the investment in individual technological fixes to the climate issue (electric cars, "green" detergents, contributions to "blue economy" causes) is little more than posturing by the wealthy to propagandize "correct thinking" and thereby induce somebody else to make tangible contributions, best of all to things that boost the value of their investments, while deflecting attention from their own undiminished carbon footprints. Real conversation: "If you're so convinced of the reality of anthropogenic global warming, why are you flying to conferences?" "Somebody's got to get the word out." James McPherson, in his [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_Cry_of_Freedom_(book) "Battle Cry of Freedom"], argued forcefully that the US "Civil War" 1861-1865 was about, not slavery, but the "slave power". It was basically a deadly(!) fight over which of two armed camps would decide the fate of persons of African descent imported into the USA as slave labor - with neither side particularly interested in the slaves themselves. I submit that the climate issue is, similarly, a fight over "climate power": who gets to decide what to do about anthropogenic global warming, with the climate itself of no particular concern. Especially since the steps needed for authentic mitigation, at the economic and social levels, are too terrifying to contemplate. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.37|108.162.245.37]] 14:32, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Arguably, it was Abraham Darby's invention of the coke fired blast furnace in 1709, that vastly increased iron production, was the real start of the industrial revolution and use of coal as a fuel. (It was actually banned in some places as being a dirty fuel for cooking and heating) Of course that would mess up the nearer to / further from dates that this series of comics use. [[User:RIIW - Ponder it|RIIW - Ponder it]] ([[User talk:RIIW - Ponder it|talk]]) 09:51, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

I would not use the expression "renewable-energy based.", but i would use "Co2 free" or similar. The main problem with climate change is CO2, not lack of renewables. Plus renewables are not the only CO2 free energy source. E.g. the nuclear energy is too a CO2 free energy source. And the only renewable source able to cover the baseload is hydropower, that is not available in the right amount everywhere. For instance take a look on Germany CO2 emissions. {{unsigned ip|172.71.114.107|10:00, 3 February 2024}}
:That's why it's called "renewable-energy ''based''", not "using renewable energies, too". "Renewable" doesn't refer to just a CO2 neutral process, but to a process that can be sustained infinitely (within the sun's life span as a main sequence star), which is clearly not the case for uranium-based energy sources. Maybe "sustainable" is the word we're looking for? [[User:Transgalactic|Transgalactic]] ([[User talk:Transgalactic|talk]]) 13:22, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
::Although nuclear energy is a CO2 free energy source, it creates nuclear waste that is hard to get rid of. I believe that we need to invest in developing infrastructure to properly store energy via batteries so that we can create sustainable energy without creating so much waste. [[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]] ([[User talk:42.book.addict|talk]]) 02:13, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
:::Mass batteries? For which you probably need lithium. Which we're not yet geared up to get in a 'sustainable' manner. In large quantities if you're going big on buffering power. (If not lithium, then there's same/different issues, or both.)
:::The solution is going to be a complex balancing act of old and new thinking, which needs rebalancing all the time. At least we (technically) know how to deal with nuclear, or at least how to not be totally reckless with it, as we (hopefully) move towards developing who-knows-what to make it less necessary to continue with less sophisticated/more problematic solutions.
:::Ever onward, ever onward. Expect hiccoughs along the way, of course. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.210|141.101.99.210]] 02:58, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
::::Only if you take a very narrow definition of 'battery' (and I'll assume here that you're using 'lithium' as synecdoche for 'the kind of resources that need to be extracted to make chemical action based batteries'). You can store energy using other approaches, such as using it to heat up materials which can release it when needed, or pumping water up to the top of a mountain, and probably lots of other ways that haven't even been thought of yet. Those are all effectively 'batteries', both in function and in the original sense of the word.[[Special:Contributions/172.71.242.206|172.71.242.206]] 09:27, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
:::::I used "(If not lithium, then there's same/different issues, or both.)" to shortcut that discussion. Electrolytic batteries have older (less capable) and newer (less mature) technologies than lithium, but lithium is at the apex of use without us really having developed volume/efficiency of supply (tapping geothermal waters for perhaps ''both'' heat and precipitating dissolved lithium salts ''might'' be better than scouring salt-flats, etc, but it's a matter of developing the scaled industries). Meanwhile, "hot gravel pressure tanks" or "mineshaft-wound weights" for non-electrical storage are early in development, with large-scale Pumped Storage Hydropower is heavily geography-confined (easier in hilly areas, like Ffestiniog or above Loch Awe, to mention two prominant 'local' examples) and while picking the top of ''any'' vague hill might help, see the issue with Taum Sauk. (Pumped-storage tidalpower might be useful for offshore (whatever the state of water, perhaps you can pump/generate in or out, as necessary), or the inverse pumped 'air-storage' submarine reservoirs, but engineering and environmental issues need a great deal of attention.) Maybe combined with electrolysis, when there's a possible power surplus (pipe the ''light'' hydrogen to the top, then burn(+generate!) to recombine into water which can be added to the top again, not having had to shift most of the mass back to the top) could help with some future projects. But that's the future. Less so than 'safe' and mature fusion, probably, but something that can match any given typical solar farm (not necessarily adjacent, but maybe... or beneath) is probaly lithium batteries. Maybe molten-salt (especially directly focussed Sun-reflection heated, as and when it can be), but that's still a bit bleeding-edge itself.
:::::Home-scale solar-backup (or as a priority over excess feed-in back to the grid) is going to be either new or old battery tech, and new means lithium, pretty much (old means lead-acid, perhaps). Megawatt/Gigawatt facilities push the tech, often, but right now if you want reliable and yet not too much anachronism/experimentalism then upscaled lithium battery 'parks' is your go-to... [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.111|172.71.178.111]] 12:26, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Here's another quote from the Crawford paper:
<q>He proposed to calculate the changes in CO2 necessary to bring about periods of both milder (+8°C) and harsher climate (-5°C), i.e., the conditions which reigned before, during and etween the Ice Ages. His preliminary calculations showed that the required changes in CO2 were in the order of 50%. Hogbom, who was present, confirmed that those changes could have occurred in geological times. It remained, however, to demonstrate this quantitatively. The construction of the model which enabled him to do so occupied him for most of 1895. Writing to a friend at the end of the year, he found it "unbelievable that so trifling a matter has cost me a full year" (5). But his complaints in letters to other friends about how difficult it was to bring the "carbonic acid matter" to an end showed how arduous a process this had been.</q>
- This suggests to me that Arrhenius thought the development of a quantitative model to be a "trifling matter" a.k.a. "trivial" in 1894, but it turned out to be a really difficult mathematical problem. So the "trifling matter" possibly doesn't refer to "hypothetical CO2 concentration in far-off eras", as the title text suggests, but to Arrhenius' initial estimation of the mathematical problem. [[User:Transgalactic|Transgalactic]] ([[User talk:Transgalactic|talk]]) 13:22, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
:Good get! [[Special:Contributions/172.71.151.153|172.71.151.153]] 17:29, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
<nowiki/>#1 I assume that unless you're really into dark humor and being the butt of jokes there isn't one.
 #2 given #1 is it useful to explain that there is no joke in the main explanation. (It is the reason I checked the explanation) {{unsigned ip|172.71.254.69|13:15, 5 February 2024}}
:<nowiki/>#3 There are plenty of other "no funny-ha-ha" comics... It doesn't mean that it's not legitimately 'amusing' as in "an amusing thought".
:<nowiki/>#4 You're free to make the edit, if you consider you have something to say.
:<nowiki/>#5 Use the "Preview" button..? ;) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.173|172.70.90.173]] 16:47, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

2884: Log Alignment

2024-01-23T10:01:40Z

172.70.90.173:

{{comic
| number = 2884
| date = January 22, 2024
| title = Log Alignment
| image = log_alignment_2x.png
| imagesize = 351x312px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = A video can have a log scale that's misaligned with both the time AND space axes.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a NTH-DIMENSIONAL BENDY LOG - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

This comic jokes about how there isn't a rule in math that requires you to align log scale and graph axes. Therefore, the person who drew the graph in the comic decided to make it distorted. According to that person, this graph is still valid. Whilst a plot ''can'' be made according to measures not consistent with the graph axes, especially where [https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Curvature-introduced-by-pen-type-recording-system-Comparison-of-a-raw-seismogram-showing_fig5_364100386 other factors dictate the plotting], it is more usual to make use of {{w|Graph paper#Examples|variant grid systems}} that are directly suited to your intended purpose (and stick to them).

The comic shows a background distribution of straight and parallel (but notably off-orthogonal) lines, such as might normally define the log-magnitude on a log-log or semi-log graph. But there are no perpendicular gradations ''and'' the bar graph drawn upon it appears to have no relation with the background, drawn distorted in an almost {{w|Salvador Dalí|Dalíesque}} manner as if a projection of one twisted in 3d space, both its bars and the base/vertical axes seem to have no relation to to the supposed underlying log-scale. However, with the slight exception of the bar tops crossing the log lines at an angle, and the curved vertical axis having {{graduation (scale)|graduation ticks}} that bear no linear ''or'' log relation with the intersecting background, the distorted bars only travel unidirectionally across the underlying parallels and ''could'' feasibly be read as indicating a definitive magnitude (or range) of some kind. Or at least could with number-labels to give an idea of what values to associate with each log-line. That two bars appear from outside the frame of the comic (the base axis having fallen off the bottom) might not even matter, so long as we can work out what quality or sample each of the bars represents (being similarly unlabeled).

Skewed log charts are real and occur in fields of science with useful applications. For example, a diagram called a "Skew-T Log-P" chart depicts the relationship between temperature and pressure of a parcel of air in the atmosphere. On this chart, the x-axis is skewed with relation to the rest of the graph, and its isotherms, or lines of equal temperature, slant diagonally upwards and to the right of the diagram. The y-axis is normal and represents temperature on a log scale. A more detailed explanation can be found [https://www.noaa.gov/jetstream/upperair/skew-t-log-p-diagrams here].

The title text further reinforces the concept of misalignment by stating that the time axis represented by the progressive changing of a moving image can be misaligned against (by the other elements of the data within the video itself, including any log scale element), adding at least one further dimension through which to twist and skew axial and non-axial components of such a dynamic graph. It's possible this may be a reference to cutting between scenes in TV shows.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[Distorted bar graph on top of gray log scale lines in the background that are slightly tilted, with the lower ends on the left]

:[Caption below the panel:]
:There's actually no rule in math that says your log scales have to be aligned with your graph axes.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Math]]
[[Category:Bar charts]]

2878: Supernova

2024-01-10T16:26:50Z

172.70.90.173: /* Explanation */ "is matches" clearly from a prior retensing-edit. Adding "might" because of vagueness.

{{comic
| number = 2878
| date = January 8, 2024
| title = Supernova
| image = supernova_2x.png
| imagesize = 348x227px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = They're a little cagey about exactly where the crossover point lies relative to the likelihood of devastating effects on the planet.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by A CAGEY MOSTLY HAPPY ASTRONOMER - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
A {{w|supernova}} occurs when a heavy star can no longer produce enough energy to fight its own gravity, e.g. because its fuel runs out ({{w|type II supernova|type II}}) or because it has accreted too much mass from a binary companion ({{w|type Ia supernova|type Ia}}). The collapsing mass leads to a violent explosion, one of the most interesting events for astronomers to observe and one that can be used to glean information about the universe.

At first glance, the curved line on this graph might match that of the typical {{w|light curve}} of a type Ia supernova, constructed by plotting the brightness of the supernova as a function of time, with negative values indicating a logarithmic luminosity scale (below zero means a linear luminosity of less than the unit amount). In the event of a supernova, a star (which may previously have been unremarkable) becomes notably bright over a short period of time before trailing off again to leave a stellar remnant and expanding cloud of ejecta. Around the time of this comic's release new constraints on the expansion of the universe from the observation of type Ia supernovae were [https://news.fnal.gov/2024/01/final-supernova-results-from-dark-energy-survey-offer-unique-insights-into-the-expansion-of-the-universe/ published], which used the regular shape of their light curves to establish a distance scale.

However, this comic reimagines the shape of a light curve graph to depict the relationship between the distance of supernovae from Earth, and the consequent happiness of astronomers, which happens to take a similar form. The further away the supernova occurs, the less detail can be learned from it, so the graph beyond the maximum happiness distance appears to show an {{wiktionary|asymptotic}} approach to less and less astronomer happiness. On the other hand, a {{w|near-earth supernova}} close enough to flood the Earth with significant amounts of gamma and X-ray radiation might be considered ''too'' close. Its radiation could destroy life on Earth, or at least significantly harm the biosphere, which would be a bad thing.{{cn}} Astronomers (and many others) would be really unhappy if that happened, shown as a sharp drop in happiness towards smaller distances and negative happiness values for a supernova that is very close. In fact, if a supernova were to instantly destroy Earth, or kill off all life on it, astronomers may no longer be able to be happy or unhappy (depending on your theological/spiritual feelings), so distance values close to zero have undefined astronomer happiness values.

Many astronomers watch and study the stars in the night sky, even those that don't change appreciably over human timescales, but observing and recording such a huge event would be interesting for many reasons. Humans can observe some supernovae with the naked eye, especially if they occur within {{w|Milky Way|our own galaxy}}. A potential supernova in the news lately is {{w|Betelgeuse}}, a {{w|red giant}} star that is the left shoulder in the constellation Orion. About 430 light years from the Sun, it has been pulsating, dimming and brightening over exceedingly short time scales compared to the tens of millions of years such a big star is expected to burn. Betelgeuse should be far enough away from Earth that the inevitable explosion would be safe enough for life on Earth (although [https://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/space-science/earth-danger-betelgeuse-supernova some assessments] are not so sure), but it ''will'' outshine all other stars in the night sky, possibly competing with the Moon, and could even be visible during daytime. This would be a dream come true for many astronomers and something obvious to others interested in the night sky. In the first [[:Category:Stargazing | Stargazing]] comic, [[1644: Stargazing | 1644]], the wish that it goes supernova (in [[Randall|Randall's]] lifetime) is clearly expressed.

Since this ''should'' be safe for us, and since it would be a spectacle not seen for hundreds of years here on Earth, this would make astronomers very happy, not just from all they could learn, but also from all the increased interest in gazing at the sky with the 'new' star (and then seeing what happens to it next).
There are thought to be about three supernovae occurring per century within our own galaxy (most of which are much further away than Betelgeuse), and many other galaxies within which a supernova explosion can be detected. These remain useful to see, and are often studied as intensively as possible, but have decreasing amounts of thrill to them and are harder to notice/record in the early stages of the explosion (or immediately before, to add even more understanding).

The title text expands upon the point of "too close" supernovae, claiming that astronomers are not quite clear or perhaps unwilling to admit how close they would like a supernova to be. If it were {{what if|73|close enough}} to severely impact the quality of human life, they would presumably not be happy, but the title text suggests that they might actually be willing to accept some trouble on Earth if they get to the see a supernova comparatively close by.

This is the second comic in a row that mentions exploding stars, after [[2877: Fever]], which like this comic is also a [[:Category:Charts|Charts comic]].

==Transcript==
:[A graph is shown where the axes are labeled and arrows are pointing upward above the Y axis label and to the right above the X axis label. There is a single line on the graph that peaks close to the Y axis, where it reaches close to the top of the drawn part of the Y axis. Then the line approaches the X axis asymptotically towards the far right. But closer to the Y axis, the peak line goes almost vertically down, and continues far below the "bottom of the chart", outside of the boundary of the graph that was only supposed to be above the X axis.]
:Y axis: How happy astronomers are
:X axis: How far away the new supernova is

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Line graphs]]
[[Category:Astronomy]]

Talk:977: Map Projections

2024-01-03T07:30:01Z

172.70.90.173:

I have a Plate Carrée hanging on my wall myself. Never failed me yet. '''[[User:Davidy22|Davidy22]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 07:05, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

I like the Azimuthal Equidistant (equatorial aspect) the best. - not Pennpenn. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.43|108.162.221.43]] 01:15, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

You can explore and compare different map projections and their distortions (using Tissot’s indicatrix and triangulation of sphere) in an interactive blog post '''[http://mjmdavis.com/showing/2017/05/16/how-to-read-maps.html The problem with maps]''' by Michael Davis --[[User:JakubNarebski|JakubNarebski]] ([[User talk:JakubNarebski|talk]]) 14:58, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

Go check out that site carefully though most of the data is accurate, some of the media is not, for example the two side by side Google maps satellite images of cars and the text saying how a map projection changes the apparent size of the cars. Well if you open up both links you will see they are at different zoom levels, one at a scale of 50 feet per unit and the other at 100 feet so yes being twice the zoom the cars are going to appear larger then the image right next to it. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.231|162.158.62.231]] 12:04, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Btw, this comic is given in ''[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lR7s1Y6Zig What Does Earth Look Like?]'' of Vsause where these projections are discussed. --[[User:Ата|Ата]] [[User talk:Ата|(talk)]] 10:38, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

;Dymaxion
Dymaxion is clearly the best. There's nothing like a map made out of an unfolded d20. [[User:Alpha|Alpha]] ([[User talk:Alpha|talk]]) 19:43, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

: Makes you wonder what if a dodecahedron had been used instead of an icosahedron. --[[User:Quicksilver|Quicksilver]] ([[User talk:Quicksilver|talk]]) 18:02, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

::Here you go: http://www.progonos.com/furuti/MapProj/Normal/ProjPoly/Foldout/Dodecahedron/dodecahedron.html - [[User:Frankie|Frankie]] ([[User talk:Frankie|talk]]) 16:40, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

::Oh noes, Progonos map site has shut down. Alternatives: http://www.csiss.org/map-projections/Miscellaneous.html and https://lynceans.org/all-posts/polyhedral-projections-improve-the-accurately-of-mapping-the-earth-on-a-2d-surface/ - [[User:Frankie|Frankie]] ([[User talk:Frankie|talk]]) 23:14, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

;Quincunx
Peirce Quincuncial has 4 non-conformal points, but not the 4 corners, which are the south pole, but instead are the 4 midpoints of the sides. These are on the equator and seem to be 90 degrees apart.--DrMath 06:30, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
: I love Peirce Quincuncial, yet I slept throughout that "Inception". [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.228|141.101.99.228]] 11:36, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
: I'm surprised nobody thought of "''really'' looking at your hands" as a hint that person that likes this projection is under influence of LSD or similar drug. As this surely is a thing that you do. (and you'll think of it next time you smoke your joint - inception!) --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.254.137|108.162.254.137]] 17:29, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Plus it has a picture of a man looking at his hand and a man looking at the man looking at his hand.[[User:Weatherlawyer| I used Google News BEFORE it was clickbait]] ([[User talk:Weatherlawyer|talk]]) 14:39, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

xkcd 1051's title text - "meta lucid dreaming". I really got excited that there was an article about and ironically, it leads to meta and lucid dreaming separately. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.55.67|173.245.55.67]] 21:23, 25 March 2014 (UTC)BK201

The common video game trope of "the far east of the world is connected to the far west, and the far north likewise to the far south" is popularly resolved by saying that those game worlds are toroidal shapes. (For a particular reference, I am thinking of the SNES and PSX era Final Fantasy games (4-9.)) But sometime in the last year, I got the idea that you could also resolve that geographical conflict (and claim they are spherical) by the logic that the "world map" you see in those games (where they have one) is a Peirce Qunincuncial map. Is my logic sound? [[User:Boct1584|Boct1584]] ([[User talk:Boct1584|talk]]) 15:31, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

The explanation for the Peirce Quincuncial seems to miss the fact that Randall is implying that anyone who likes this map is most likely high. Getting lost in deep thought over things like your hands, or sitting in a dark theater for 6 hours to wrap your head around Inception...these are all very stereotypical "has smoke a lot of marijuana" behaviors. {{unsigned ip|108.162.216.21}}

The Quincuncial map is one of few maps that can tile infinite plane such that any 2 arbitrarily close points on the plane correspond to 2 arbitrarily close points on globe and vice versa.

;Waterman

In actual fact, the Waterman butterfly map used a truncated octahedron based upon the mathematics of close packing of spheres and is not at all based upon any of CaHill's work/math.
-- steve waterman {{unsigned ip|65.92.20.61}}
:Perhaps the explanation should mention that Waterman himself signed up at forum.xkcd.com and vigorously denied that his map has anything to do with Cahill. At the time, it was unclear whether the account was really Waterman, or just a troll trying to make him look bad. - [[User:Frankie|Frankie]] ([[User talk:Frankie|talk]]) 21:39, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

;Kavrayskiy VII
Kavrayskiy is the best projection, despite being so far out of the mainstream that no-one west of Ukraine has seen one for the past 20 years. {{unsigned ip|173.245.54.64}}
:Wow, I looked into it and it really seems like an excellent projection. It's been a while since I've looked at projections but I think it's my new favourite as it has everything that I've been looking for in a projection. It's a more accurate (in extremes) and more pleasing Robinson projection that still has a reasonable amount cut off the top. Also, the indicatrix for it is very simple, as is the formula, and simple things please simple minds (like mine, apparently) -- without taking it to an extreme like the equirectangular projection does. I swear I've come across it before, but then again I grew up in a country which wasn't far from the Eastern Bloc. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.214|141.101.98.214]] 14:51, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

;Sphere
To be fair, what is drawn is an orthographic azimuthal projection.--[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.153|108.162.216.153]] 18:59, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

GLOBES ARE THE BEST although my enormous Winkel Tripel hasn't done too bad. {{unsigned ip|108.162.219.9}}

Airline food is never microwaved, and is chilled rather than frozen. Also the problems aren't limited to storage and re-heating, there are technical considerations with low air pressure, dehydrated air etc. and concerns over strong smells. I edited the relevant section. [[User:AmbroseChapel|AmbroseChapel]] ([[User talk:AmbroseChapel|talk]]) 07:00, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

"Here is what it says about you" is a common phrase in online personality quizzes, pages and other things. {{unsigned ip|162.158.167.234}}

Randall Hates New Zealand. [[User:Koro Neil|Koro Neil]] ([[User talk:Koro Neil|talk]]) 03:40, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Isn't the "skeleton inside" thing a reference to Ray Bradbury's "The Skeleton" [[User:Shadowsapex|Shadowsapex]] ([[User talk:Shadowsapex|talk]]) 08:32, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

== Wording disagreement ==

Loodog and I disagree about the wording of the Peters map explanation.

The previous version of the text (written by LCarsos in 2012):
: ''Anyone who loves such a politically charged map that has become popular by way of marketing stunts, Randall would rather not have anything to do with.''
Loodog's version of the text:
: ''The implication is that the fans of this map are pompously concerned with social justice, and willing either to lie or convey marketing mistruths to promote that cause.''

I believe Loodog's wording is excessively non-neutral, and the old wording should be restored. - [[User:Frankie|Frankie]] ([[User talk:Frankie|talk]]) 19:29, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

: FWIW, I disagree that Peters fans are "pompously concerned with social justice". IMO, they are just assholes who enjoy using the terminology of social justice as their cudgel. People who genuinely care about social justice don't use Peters.

: Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and the International Organization for Migration are three of the world's largest social justice organizations. Each of them has been described as "pompous" by detractors. <ref>https://www.google.com/search?q=%22amnesty+international%22+pompous</ref> <ref>https://www.google.com/search?q=%22human+rights+watch%22+pompous</ref> <ref>https://www.google.com/search?q=IOM+~migration+pompous</ref> None of them use Peters map projection. <ref>https://www.google.com/search?q=world+map+site:amnesty.org&tbm=isch</ref> <ref>https://www.google.com/search?q=world+map+site:hrw.org&tbm=isch</ref> <ref>https://www.google.com/search?q=world+map+site:iom.int&tbm=isch</ref> AI & HRW use a mix of Hobo-Dyer, Equirectangular, and probably Mercator. IOM uses something rounded (probably Robinson or W-T), Equirectangular, and Mercator. - [[User:Frankie|Frankie]] ([[User talk:Frankie|talk]]) 19:34, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
::I'm inclined to agree; certainly we should be careful about calling people "pompous" in the article voice. I went back to the older wording but added "...and false claims..." after marketing stunts, which seems to have been the main thing that the person who changed it objected to and which can be stated more neutrally like that. --[[User:Aquillion|Aquillion]] ([[User talk:Aquillion|talk]]) 07:13, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

== Hemispheric Interrupted Mollweide ==

Still disappointed that Randall didn't include the '''BEST''' projection: Interrupted Mollweide Hemispheres. It combines key aspects from the clean math of Equirectangular, the values of Hobo-Dyer, the circularity of Van Der Grinten, the flattening of Homolosine, and the hipness of Winkel Tripel. - [[User:Frankie|Frankie]] ([[User talk:Frankie|talk]]) 15:09, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
:Maybe next time [[User:While False|While False]] ([[User:While False/explain xkcd museum|'''museum''']] | [[User talk:While False|talk]] | [[special:Contributions/While_False|contributions]] | [[special:Log/While_False|logs]] | [[Special:UserRights/While_False|rights]]) 19:00, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

i like peirce quincuncial and plate carree (bonus points the fact it's the oldest one). mercator is a bit meh, but let's give it credit for being one of the first projections (in fact it is the second oldest projection). gall-peters is the ugliest projection i've seen, and hobo-dyer is second ugliest. the butterfly one is also good but a bit weird, and the ichosaedron one that i forgot the name is... weird. like, wtf is that, it doesn't even look like a map, idk, where's europe there [[User:An user who has no account yet|An user who has no account yet]] ([[User talk:An user who has no account yet|talk]]) 18:31, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
:For the "icosahedron one", you mean the Dymaxion? In which case, Europe is in the topmost trapezoid (left, as opposed to the two triangles top-right). See Africa (Madagascar crossing an edge) in one corner, see the 'squiggle' of the Med and then Europe (rotated maybe 150 degrees over) crammed in the right of the extrusion. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.242.76|172.71.242.76]] 21:47, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

It should maybe be explained that the concept of determining what someone's personality is like by what map they prefer is itself ''{{w|Social projection|projection}}'' {{unsigned|Mesoseven|05:20, 3 January 2024}}
:Might be worth disambiguating/adding to the {{w|projection (psychology)}} link in the '''Title Text''' section. I mean, they're not totally the same thing, but could be dealt with together with the right wording. (PS, I shuffled/reformatted your contribution. You did 'sign', but not ''sign'', and you can check the layout of the handy wikilink template we use here if you read how I've made your link; and my own without any replacement text. Welcome to the wiki, and if you have any questions...) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.173|172.70.90.173]] 07:30, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

2871: Definitely

2023-12-24T19:56:18Z

172.70.90.173:

{{comic
| number = 2871
| date = December 22, 2023
| title = Definitely
| image = definitely_2x.png
| imagesize = 463x461px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = A really mean prank you can play on someone who's picky about words is to add a 'definitely->definitively' autocorrect rule to their keyboard.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a DEFIANT DEFINITION of DEFINATELEY - definitely needs a table, but this is the one universe where it needs it! Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

The word "''{{wiktionary|definitely}}''" is commonly {{wiktionary|misspelt}}, perhaps because it may be voiced as "def-in-ATE-ly", or with other vowels/emphasis. (The wiktionary link mentions three, /ˈdɛf.ɪ.nɪt.li/, /ˈdɛf.ə.nɪt.li/, /ˈdɛf.nɪt.li/, which are just some of the differences you might encounter.) Remembering that it ultimately has a common root with "finite", and thus has the two 'i's, does not help if you also/instead perhaps link it in your head to "''define''" (which might erroneously lead to "''defin'''e'''tely''") and not "definition").

The comic gives twelve 'words' that the subtitle claims are all real, and gives their definitions, whereas in reality only the first (the definitely definitive spelling of "''definitely''") and the last (defying the trend by being the actual word "''{{wiktionary|defiantly}}''") are indeed so.

The first three alternate 'words' listed do have Wiktionary entries that indicate they are common mis-spellings of the first (with "definately" having been used previously in [[1238: Enlightenment]]), and the last has a secondary 'meaning' of possibly being such an error, but (as of the publication of this comic/edit) the words "''defenitely''", "''defintely''", "''definetely''" [defined as "{{w|Definitely, Maybe}}"], "''definantly''", "''defanitely''", "''defineatly''" and "''definitly''" are ''so'' wrong that they don't even have a corrective article created for them. Some of them don't even look like they'd even be sufficiently homophonic substitutes, though the actions of accent and dialect may indeed be capable of creating compatible (mis)elocutions for each.

The definition of "defanitely" (in one universe out of 14 million) references the movie "Avengers: Infinity War". In this movie, Doctor Strange looks into the future and sees 14 million possible outcomes, but only one of them is favorable.

The title text adds to the word confusion by suggesting the real word "''{{wiktionary|definitively}}''" (for which Wiktionary has a 'See also' link to "definitely") be made to be used (against the will of a word-wise individual) as a substitution for the original definitely definitive spelling. In certain contexts it even fulfils the same basic sense as the original and so may survive proofreading by a third party. Or even the author glancing through their own work, and the brain not twigging the increased number of riser-rich characters but mentally voicing the intended word anyway... Even if it is noticed, it may be considered more a "''{{wiktionary|thinko}}''" than a "''{{wiktionary|typo}}''" as it keeps happening, at least until the afflicted typist starts to pay close and distracting attention to their output.

This kind of [[:Category:Substitutions|substitution]] is a recurring subject on xkcd, with one of the more famous ones being [[1031: s/keyboard/leopard/]], where "''keyboard''" is replaced by "''leopard''" in the text.

==Transcript==
:[A list of 12 words with their meanings. The lines between the words and their meaning are aligned, with the words to the left being right-aligned. Above the 12 rows of words there are underlined captions:]
:Word   Meaning

:Definitely - Definitely
:Definetly - ''Almost'' definitely
:Definately - Probably
:Definatly - Probably not
:Defenitely - Not telling (it's a surprise)
:Defintely - Per the prophecy
:Definetely - Definitely, maybe
:Definantly - To be decided by coin toss
:Defanitely - In one universe out of 14 million
:Defineatly - Only the gods know
:Definitly - Unless someone cute shows up
:Defiantly - Defiantly

:[Caption below the panel:]
:People think the word "definitely" is often misspelled, but it's actually just several words with different meanings.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Language]]
[[Category:Substitutions]]

2863: Space Typography

2023-12-09T09:23:15Z

172.70.90.173: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 2863
| date = December 4, 2023
| title = Space Typography
| image = space_typography_2x.png
| imagesize = 740x239px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = And over heeee[...]eeeere (i)s Saturn.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by an OPTIMISTIC ALIEN OVER THEEEE[...]EEEERE (o)N... CYGNUS X-1 - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
Randall has created a sentence with the property wherein when printed in {{w|Times New Roman}} font, the distances of the "i" letters from the first letter are proportional to the radii of the orbits of the innermost five planets in the {{w|Solar System}}. These are the only letters in the sentence that have a dot over the letter (there are no "j"s in the sentence) or elsewhere (there are no periods, colons, semicolons, or other dot-containing symbols). He suggests that if you get lost travelling among these planets, you can use the dots as a map.

This won't be a very useful map. When travelling between planets, it's not enough to know where the planet's orbit is, you also need to know where it is along the orbit. Additionally, if you are truly lost then you likely do not know where ''you'' actually are, and which 'way' you are heading, though you can probably at least locate the sun if you are indeed within our inner solar system.

The sentence is self-referential since it talks about using typography to measure distances in space, and this makes it a useful mnemonic. The "optimistic" in the sentence could indicate that the aliens in question are highly optimistic that this kind of "map" would be useful for navigating a star system where planets orbit in ellipses, rather than being in static positions along a line (as is so often depicted in line-ups of the Solar System's planets).

The title text appends the sentence with a section for identifying Saturn. It contains an ellipsis in brackets, which normally signifies that an indeterminate number of 'e's has been omitted from the sentence, seemingly to represent Saturn's large orbital radius as the next "i" in "is". The trick is appending the sentence, brackets and all, after the original sentence (so that we get "Optimistic aliens measure space typographically. And over here, [...]eeeere (i)s Saturn.") puts the dot on the last "i" at Saturn's orbit. The extra dots and periods besides the six 'i's only serve as punctuation and spacing; the parentheses, besides spacing, call attention to the 'i' in the title text, where the black emphasis of the comic is not available. They're also reminiscent of {{w|Saturn's rings}}, although they are much too large and off-centre.

Similar sentences with varying numbers of "e"s could be used to continue out to any planet or other body which does not contain the letter "i" – which is all of the remaining planets and minor planets, except Eris. However, the strings of "e"s would get longer and longer, to the point that it might be necessary to write down how many of them are to be used – about 59 "e"s for Saturn, starting from the Sun – which might as well just be replaced with a table of orbital ephemerides.

==Accuracy==
[[File:2863OrbitComparison.png|thumb|Comparison between orbits of Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, and Jupiter to the dots in the comic]]
Measuring the distances based on the provided image results in these approximate distances:

{| class="wikitable" style="margin:auto"
|-
! Planet !! Pixel offset !! Relative Distance in Comic !! Actual Distance in AU<ref>https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/edu/pdfs/scaless_reference.pdf</ref>
|-
| Mercury || 93 || 0.3907 || 0.39
|-
| Venus || 169 || 0.7101 || 0.72
|-
| Earth || 238 || 1 || 1
|-
| Mars || 362 || 1.5210 || 1.52
|-
| Jupiter || 1229 || 5.1639 || 5.2
|}

Saturn is 9.54 astronomical units from the sun, for which 13 middle 'e's would be required in "here" to make the title text work.

The picture also contains a standard-representation of Times New Roman, with no changes to kerning or tracking.

Continuing the idea would look like this:

"Optimistic aliens measure space typographically. And over heeeeeeeeeeeeere (i)s Saturn. And over heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere is Uranus. And over heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere is Neptune."

{| class="wikitable" style="margin:auto"
|-
! Planet !! Number of 'e's needed in "here"
|-
| Saturn || 13
|-
| Uranus || 49
|-
| Neptune || 58
|}

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
:[A grayed-out sentence in the Times New Roman font reads "Optimistic aliens measure space typographically". The "O" in "Optimistic" is dark black and indicated as representing the Sun (not to scale). The dots of the letters "i" in the sentence are similarly dark black. The dot in the first "i" in "Optimistic" is indicated as representing Mercury; the dot in the second "i" represents Venus; the dot in the third "i" represents Earth. The dot in the "i" in "aliens" is indicated as representing Mars. The dot in the "i" in "typographically" is indicated as representing Jupiter. A measurement bar indicates that the distance between the "O" and the third "i" in "Optimistic" (representing Earth) is equivalent to 1 AU (astronomical unit).]

:[Caption below the panel:]
:Space tip: if you're ever lost in the inner Solar System, you can just type out the phrase "Optimistic aliens measure space typographically" in Times New Roman and use the dots as a map.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Space]]
[[Category:Tips]]

521: 2008 Christmas Special

2023-12-03T11:25:01Z

172.70.90.173: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 521
| date = December 24, 2008
| title = 2008 Christmas Special
| image = 2008_christmas_special.png
| titletext = 'How could you possibly think typing 'import skynet' was a good idea?'
}}

==Explanation==
This comic is the xkcd Christmas Special from the year 2008. The prologue states that due to the {{w|2008 financial crisis}}, only very few images of the strip could be produced, leaving the others to be blacked out. It is therefore left to the reader to reconstruct the whole story based on the given images. While it is claimed that the reconstruction should be rather easy, the complicated and abstruse plot-line makes it nearly impossible to fill the gaps. Any attempt at inferring the missing images would therefore be largely guesswork. The comic features the well-known xkcd characters getting involved in a strange fight with cyborgs and raptors on Christmas Eve.

The line "We apologize for the inconvenience." is possibly a reference to the famous book series ''{{w|The Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy}}'' by {{w|Douglas Adams}}. It appears there as God's Final Message to His Creation, written in letters of fire on the side of the Quentulus Quazgar Mountains.

'''Panel 2:''' [[Megan]] strives to outdo some Christmas lights she has seen on YouTube.

'''Panel 3:''' Dissatisfied with her work, Megan is thinking about alternative ways to improve her light arrangement. The idea of firing {{w|Sodium}} pellets into snow is probably a bad one, as Sodium reacts exothermically with water and may, in large amounts, induce explosions.

'''Panel 5:''' Probably still obsessed with creating a large and impressive light display, Megan has constructed an electronic device with an {{w|Arduino}} processor, perhaps to make the light chain show patterns. However, the energy she used was too high, causing one of the control boards to sublimate- go directly from a solid to a gaseous state without an intermediate liquid phase. She then wishes she could make the system self-repairing.

'''Panel 7:''' Megan's device has developed {{w|artificial intelligence}}, allowing it to feel. This is presumably a result of Megan attempting to make the device self-repairing. This common trope in science-fiction works usually leads to the system's attempt to eradicate its creator. [[Cueball]] attributes the emergence of a personality to the awesome ease and power of programming in {{w|Python (programming language)|Python}}.

'''Panel 11:''' Out of context, this panel introduces the idea of {{w|Santa Claus}} being a {{w|Muslim}}. This may be a reference to the persistent Internet rumours that Barack Obama is a Muslim, though he declares himself to be a Christian. However, the statement could also relate to the fact that Santa Claus is usually displayed with a large beard, which is sometimes also sported by conservative Muslims. Or it could just be nonsensical.

'''Panel 13:''' At this point, the self-aware Christmas light control systems have released {{w|cyborgs}} that tried to kill Megan and Cueball. To repel the cyborgs, they have cloned {{w|Velociraptors}}. Cueball expresses doubt about whether that was a good idea. Velociraptors appear frequently in xkcd, as seen in [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Category:Velociraptors these comics]

'''Panel 17:''' As predicted, the raptors have gone wild, but Megan, Cueball and the two smaller characters (perhaps their children) managed to cage the dinosaurs. They believe themselves safe unless the raptors learn how to build {{w|lightsabers}}. This is a reference to a line in {{w|'' Jurassic Park''}} where the main characters believe themselves safe unless the raptors can learn how to open doors.

'''Panel 19:''' The raptors have indeed succeeded with constructing lightsabers and must now be fought. The "Clever girl" refers to a line from ''Jurassic Park'' where the raptors outflank (and kill) one of the human characters wearing a similar hat.

'''Panel 23:''' IT billionaire {{w|Bill Gates}} has mistakenly killed Santa Claus, possibly in a sword fight. He claims to have mistaken him for [[Richard Stallman]], a prominent {{w|free software}} activist. (Gates strongly opposes the idea of free software and is therefore considered an antagonist by many of its supporters.) The most striking resemblance between Stallman and Santa Claus is probably the long and untamed beard. [[225: Open Source]] features Stallman involved in a sword fight.

'''Panel 29:''' Megan, possibly [[Danish]], asks [[Black Hat]] where he obtained the enormously large {{w|christmas tree}} that can be seen on the right side of the picture. It is implied that he logged {{w|Yggdrasil}}, a giant ash tree in Norse mythology. According to tradition, Yggdrasil is the world tree representing the whole of creation and holding together the cosmological structure.

'''Panel 31:''' [[Randall]] wishes Merry Christmas to all xkcd readers.

The title text refers to panel 7. In Python, modules are imported using the "import ''module''" syntax. {{w|Skynet (Terminator)|Skynet}} is a self-aware artificial intelligence system featured in the ''{{w|Terminator}}'' film series as the main antagonist. Importing the Skynet module might therefore account for Megan's system's developing an evil personality.

Note that this comic was first published in another version that had panel 29 as panel 27 and the "Merry Christmas from xkcd" message at the bottom. As 27 is not a {{w|prime number}}, the current version was published in place of the erroneous one.

It has been observed that the top left nine panels form a {{w|Glider (Conway's Life)|Glider}} in ''{{w|Conway's Game of Life}}''. The glider is sometimes used as an emblem representing {{w|hacker subculture}}, although rotated by 90 degrees. It remains however unclear whether the occurrence in the comic is intentional or owed to the prime number pattern. Also, if you put the shown comic panels in The Game of Life, it turns into a Beehive (for some reason).

==Transcript==
:The 2008 XKCD Christmas Special
:Due to the slowing economy, we could only afford to produce the prime-numbered panels.
:You should be able to infer the missing parts of the story easily enough.
:We apologize for the inconvenience.
:[The first panel is blank.]
:[Megan carrying Christmas lights and Cueball watching.]
:Megan: I'm going to one-up those Christmas light displays on YouTube.
:[Megan thinking.]
:Megan: Hmm. Needs more flair. Do you know what happens when you fire sodium pellets into a snowbank?
:Cueball: No.
:Megan: Me neither.
:[The next panel is blank.]
:[Megan sitting in front of a console.]
:Megan: Whoops, one of the Arduino control boards sublimated.
:Megan: If only I could make it self-repairing...
:[The next panel is blank.]
:Megan: Shit. The system has become sentient.
:Cueball: Friggin' Python.
:System: GRAAARR!
:[The next three panels are blank.]
:[Megan showing laptop to Cueball.]
:Megan: But according to this email forward, Santa is secretly a Muslim!
:Cueball: It explains everything!
:[The next panel is blank.]
:Megan: Okay, the cloned raptors are hunting the last of the cyborgs. We're safe.
:Cueball: Are you sure you thought this through?
:[The next three panels are blank.]
:[Two couples appear in this next panel.]
:Cueball: Are the raptors contained?
:Ponytail: Sure. Unless they figure out how to build lightsabers.
:[The next panel is blank.]
:[Guy with hat fighting with a raptor using lightsabers.]
:Cueball: It's all right. I've got her.
:[Lightsaber appears from behind.]
:Snap-hiss!
:Cueball: ...Clever girl.
:[The next three panels are blank.]
:[Bill Gates is holding a weapon over Santa's body. The two girls are watching.]
:Megan: Great. Bill Gates kills Santa.
:Bill Gates: I thought it was Stallman with a dyed beard.
:[The next five panels are blank.]
:[Danish and Black Hat are looking at a tree.]
:Danish: Where did you get this Christmas tree?
:Black Hat: Nowhere.
:Danish: Did you cut down the Yggdrasil?
:Black Hat: ...Maybe.
:[The next panel is blank.]
:[Megan and Cueball holding hands and looking at reader.]
:Merry Christmas from XKCD <3
:[The last panel is blank.]

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Black Hat]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Richard Stallman]]
[[Category:Comics featuring real people]]
[[Category:Christmas]]
[[Category:Programming]]
[[Category:Star Wars]]
[[Category:Velociraptors]]
[[Category:Terminator]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Danish]]

Talk:2812: Solar Panel Placement

2023-08-14T11:02:22Z

172.70.90.173:

Can someone smarter than me do the math on running power lines to a panel on the sun? How long until it would pay for itself?[[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.125|172.70.214.125]] 05:08, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
:$22 million / $0.20 per kWH = 110 million kWH, divide by hours in a year and you get about 12549 kW. Google says the sun is 150 million KM away. IDK the exact details, but a calculator I found online suggests a copper cable with a cross-sectional area of 10m^2 can handle that amount of power transported 150 million KM. The density of copper's about 9 cm/g^3. 150 million km * 10 m^2 * 9 g/cm^3 = 1.35 * 10^16 kg. The cost to get one kilogram to Low-Earth Orbit according to google is >$10,000, let's just use that. Total cost to get to LEO: $1.35 * 10^20. Divide by profit per year => 6.1 trillion years. [[User:Tiln|Tiln]] ([[User talk:Tiln|talk]]) 07:10, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
::"The cost to get one kilogram to Low-Earth Orbit [...], let's just use that." Ummm... It's actually easier to ''leave'' the solar system than to rendezvous with Mercury (never mind attain even closer stability to the Sun's surface).
::I supose you could always go to an orbit a very long way away (near solar-escape) and add a little extra reverse delta-V to zero your orbital movement and then fall down. But you must not miss the pinprick Sun, or you're in a highly elliptic comet-like trajectory (with even higher demands needed to circularise at perihelion), so you need to be very precise about stopping and dodging through the gravity wells of any planets you plunge past. Not that ''not'' missing is going to do you much good, either.
::...hmmm, hang on, maybe that's what the cables back to Earth are for. Spooled in/out just at the right rate (perhaps some bungee-chord included), it's how you stop ''just above'' the Sun's surface (at the limit of the conductive cable, then cut the retarding bungee just as you're stable enough at the bottom of the bounce!) and stay there. Ok, not a problem. It'll work after all{{Actual citation needed}} and I withdraw all my petty objections! [[Special:Contributions/172.71.242.82|172.71.242.82]] 10:43, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
::: And then you'll have to deal with the end of the bungee cord retracting under it's own tension... and since it's no longer tethered to the craft it would probably whip back towards Earth. As an afterthought, have you ever been whipped by a released rubber band? Imagine that... but at a cosmic scale. I'd probably take my chances with the cables. [[User:Xkcdjerry|Xkcdjerry]] ([[User talk:Xkcdjerry|talk]]) 14:39, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
> ''"...IDK the exact details, but a calculator I found online suggests..."''
::I don't disagree with >6 trillion year payback, but the cable-calculation is insufficient data. Say 1,000 Watts. This could be carried as 1 Volt 1,000 Amperes (roughly what comes out of a parallel panel) or as 1,000 Volts 1 Ampere. One is fat copper and hardly any insulation, the other is hair-fine copper and thick insulation. A proper design goes to the relative costs of conductor and insulation.
::Many on-Earth power lines rely on air for insulation and air can be really cheap. These favor extra high voltages. My neighbor has 20,000V; the long line in California is far over 200,000V, near 1MegaVolt. Space-vacuum is even cheaper, perhaps limited by tolerable size of the bushings at the earth station.
::12,549 kW is like 13 MegaWatts. This could be carried as 13MV 1 Amp. Iron (for strength) #30AWG, 0.010" diameter, will carry 3 Amps. #30 is too fine for easy handling. #14 iron, "electric fence wire", is more manageable. About $100 per mile, I remember 93 million miles, so '''9 Billion Bucks for wire'''. Plus deposit on the spools....... and shipping, and stringing.....
::BTW: 10m^2 may be a bogus extrapolation. Wires much over 0.25" 6mm 0.000,03m^2 suffer from internal heating. The cold of space helps, but there is no air convection cooling (no air, and no convection in zero-G).. a 3meter diameter cable won't carry 1% of what you would hope from small-wire experience.
::Yes, superconductors, hi-temp near the sun.... but this won't come until after the convenient Fusion Power which has been right around the corner literally since I was born.
--[[User:PRR|PRR]] ([[User talk:PRR|talk]]) 23:46, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Congrats, you've just made the universe's smallest Dyson sphere component! [[Special:Contributions/162.158.2.38|162.158.2.38]] 07:33, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

I'd just like to point out an error in Randall's math:
The light incident on the panel would only be from the portion of the surface with line-of-sight to the panel. This fraction is called the "view factor", and has its own Wikipedia page, which I'm too lazy to link since I'm editing this on my phone. Carry on! [[Special:Contributions/172.70.126.217|172.70.126.217]] 13:26, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
:I thought Sun luminosity (total outgoing light, in all directions from all points of itsvsurface) divided by Sun area (total luminescing surface area) multiplied by the 1m² (the actual 'capturable' parts) normalised to the effectively-in-contact portion of the Sun exactly in the way you're defining the view factor. (You could link to {{w|View factor}} by just trying <code><nowiki>{{w|View factor}}</nowiki></code>, if you want, and edit it later if you're wrong.)
:Further out, distance from the Sun factors in as an inverse square relationship, but it'll be negligable when you're practically at the Surface and close to the full 2pi steradian of incident light from a significantly greater area of emitting surface than the unit-area of receiving surface. Once you're at Earth-orbit distance, it's a tad below 70 nanosteradian of "panel view" and almost none of the light even from the directly facing square metre of Sun even comes close to the even smaller solid angle subtending the outwards spread of light.
:Set your panel at the height of various solar-surface features, you might not intercept much of the light (hence division by Sun's area) yet what you'll capture will be significant. Probably well beyond any long-(/medium-, perhaps even short-)term survivability of a lump of plastic, silicon and metals normally stuck on a house roof. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.161|172.70.91.161]] 15:36, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
:I think view factor calculations are ''not needed here'': Imagine the sun's surface covered with 1m² panels. Then all the outgoing light is captured by those panels. The incident light can be calculated by a simple area division. If the panels are further away, more panels are needed, and the incident light per panel is smaller (reverse square dependence on the distance from the ''center'' of the sun). (G.Rote) --[[Special:Contributions/172.69.150.109|172.69.150.109]] 05:31, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Actually, the inverse square dependency yields results in the right ballbark: The Earth is 150 million km from the Sun's center, the Sun's surface is 700,000 km away from the center (radius of the Sun). The ratio is ~214. The squared ratio is ~46,000. The ratio between the monetary yields is $22 million/$58, which is around 380,000, bigger than 46,000. The additional loss factor of around 8.25 must come from the Earth's atmosphere and clouds, and the non-perpendicular angles during much of the day (and night). (My initial thought was that the ratio in earnings ought to be ''much bigger''). (Günter Rote) --[[Special:Contributions/172.70.246.238|172.70.246.238]] 06:08, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

I was briefly confused because HVAC usually stands for heating, ventilation, and air conditioning, but is here used to mean high-voltage alternating current. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.247.50|172.69.247.50]] 13:31, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
:I often have the ''opposite'' confusion... ;) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.161|172.70.91.161]] 15:36, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
:Ah! Thank you![[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.30|172.70.85.30]] 23:21, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

I ran some calculations on using rechargeable batteries to get power from the Sun to Earth, full markdown file is [https://github.com/xkcdjerry/markdown-pages/blob/main/explainxkcd-2812-talk-calcuations.md here] is anyone to check it out.

TL;DR: it's ''way'' better than running powerlines to Earth but falls slightly shy of putting a panel on Earth, though that may be remedied by more precise data. [[User:Xkcdjerry|Xkcdjerry]] ([[User talk:Xkcdjerry|talk]]) 15:09, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

: New idea: maybe we can make some sort of belt in which one side has fully discharged batteries and the other has fully charged ones, so that gravity balanced out and we only need to do work against friction, that should raise the efficiency greatly, with some engineering we might get it above 0.1% or even 1%, however I don't have exact data on this so this remains the work of someone with more knowledge than me XD [[User:Xkcdjerry|Xkcdjerry]] ([[User talk:Xkcdjerry|talk]]) 15:38, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

The power line loss calculation is not at all valid. Lines on the surface of a planet lose far more power to heating and induction etc. In the cold vacuum of space, efficiency should be excellent. (This should also reference some of the https://what-if.xkcd.com/157/ problems though.) [[Special:Contributions/172.69.65.206|172.69.65.206]] 18:21, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
: Given that standard transmission losses (for long distance HVAC power lines) are [https://iea-etsap.org/E-TechDS/PDF/E12_el-t&d_KV_Apr2014_GSOK.pdf around 3% per 1000 km] and the Sun is 150 million km away, the energy reaching the Earth would be 0.97^(150000), a truly negligible amount (10^-1985 of the input energy). In this case, you'd be better off literally sending huge packs of rechargeable batteries to Earth.
: ~~ Above comment not signed. ~~

:Aside from intentional absurdity, why run wires? Wireless power attenuation is very low in a near-vacuum; just beam the power back via microwave. That's how all the serious proposals work, & it seems both obvious & potentially quite practical... It's really just the survivability of anything parked so close to the sun's ejecta, that seems problematic, to me?
:[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 17:27, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
::Clearly the above is riffing directly off the "transmission lines" (i.e. strung physical cables) directly mentioned in the title text. Yes, melting/ablation/etc is going to be a major problem (as is sitting the panel directly above the so-called surface of the Sun, which seems to be different from putting it into Very Low Solar Orbit), but the fanciful issue of merely the ''cabling'' being a high initial capital cost is very much a Munrovian flight of fancy that's not particularly unusual in such punchlines.
::Yes, we'd do it differently 'IRL', but this is very much part of the whole treatment. For one thing, who puts just ''one'' 1m² PV panel on a rooftop, like that? (Never mind send it 1AU away from the owner's home.) Round here, the standard seems to be 14 panels (and non-square... 1m x 1.65m if my recent jotted measurements of those used upon a particular roof is not unrepresentative).
::It's a "spherical cow in a vacuum" sort of scenario, and we can choose to accept (or argue against) whatever bits of handwavium we feel like highlighting. So why not educate, inform ''and'' entertain? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.7|172.70.86.7]] 21:16, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

I added an explanation of the two equations Randall used. Not sure how clear they are but I'm fairly certain the math checks out. [[User:DownGoer|DownGoer]] ([[User talk:DownGoer|talk]]) 05:53, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

I love you guys! I would be more concerned about keeping ym shiny new solar panel cooled enough to be efficient. That close to Earth, I would fear that my Solar Panel just melts, and that the solar wind woll blow the molten droplets all around. And I have yet to find an insurance company willing to cover any damaged property by this side effect of the fusion powered heat generator in our Solar System. Not worth the risk, IMHO. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.182.45|172.71.182.45]] 16:45, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
: I would think they would reject your claim as resulting from an act of Sol.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.173|172.70.90.173]] 11:02, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Talk:2705: Spacetime Soccer

2022-12-03T22:11:12Z

172.70.90.173:

Wow, that was fast {{unsigned ip|172.70.131.8|03:48, 1 December 2022‎}}
:What was? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.46|172.70.162.46]] 04:27, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
Does someone want to point out to Randall that it is the offside rule, not offsides rule [[Special:Contributions/172.70.134.122|172.70.134.122]] 04:57, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
:It's often pluralized in American English, per Wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offside_(sport) [[Special:Contributions/172.71.151.44|172.71.151.44]] 05:22, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
:That makes no sense, it's an adjective, not a noun. It can't be pluralised. Even that wikipedia article, despite its assertion at the top, doesn't at any point use "offside" as a noun.
::Side is a noun. It's colloquial in the US because other games use the same word. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.92|172.70.206.92]] 12:03, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
:::Interesting that the inherent pluralisation doesn't extend to "math(ematic)s"... ;) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.61|172.70.86.61]] 12:27, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
::::That's because "math" is a contraction, just the first four letters, the rest of the word is dropped. :) The British "maths" is weird because it just drops several letters in the middle, not sure I've ever seen another contraction like that without an apostrophe to stand in for the missing letters like "can't", "won't", "cont'd"... [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 06:12, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
:: Seems like a noun to me, it's the name of a place, isn't it? The part of the field you're not supposed to be? An "out of bounds" that's within the field? To be an adjective it would need a noun (besides "rule")... [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 06:23, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
:::Adjectival rules without nouns? "Commutative rule", etc. No nouns needed.
:::(I've no idea whether any of the other rules of football, from 1863 onwards, are named like that. Footie's not my sport, though I do at least inow what to be offside means, even if I couldn't tell at a glance whether any particular combination of players and ball might be in danger of invoking it.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.173|172.70.90.173]] 22:11, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
:I can only imagine that Randall used the less-preferred (more-despised?) term to troll some of us. Does he not like the beautiful game? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.252|172.70.214.252]] 01:15, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
:I've never heard "offsides" plural, I don't think, but I don't exactly watch any sports. :) I can imagine such people think it's short for "off the sides", there's two sides to the field, thus plural. Never mind that if you understand the rule - and from me that is SAYING SOMETHING - there's only one side to be off of. :) [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 06:23, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

I currently have no time to expand the explanation, but it should be pointed out that the gravity well drawing is a graph and not an actual surface. Also, people are perfectly fine with moving though 4 dimensional spacetime. We do it every day. [[User:Condor70|Condor70]] ([[User talk:Condor70|talk]]) 09:19, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
[citation needed] [[Special:Contributions/198.41.242.83|198.41.242.83]] 09:59, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
:...though note that I probably can't ever go back to where I was yesterday. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.61|172.70.86.61]] 12:27, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
::That has more to do with the fact that you flooded the museum's basement than spacetime though [[Special:Contributions/172.69.22.62|172.69.22.62]] 15:24, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
:::I did not! I flooded their second floor. It was ''their'' fault that the basement subsequently flooded (and gained a few new items/display cases/members of staff and also an improved influx of visitors to the "Dried Goods Through The Ages" exhibit that they already kept down there), but they still blamed me for some strange and probably erroneous reason... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.30|162.158.159.30]] 16:36, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure it mocks the fact that in the rest of the world, "football" is the sport where you play the ball with your *feet*, with a particular obscure rule that you can't touch it with your hands (unless you are a goalkeeper). On the other hand, American "football" is the sport where you grab the ball with your hands and carry it around. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.160.43|172.71.160.43]] 16:35, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
:In actuality, most of the native-English-speaking world (Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Republic of Ireland, and South Africa) tend to refer to association football as "soccer" because another football game is more dominant (Australian football, gridiron football, Rugby union or league football, Gaelic football) and "association football" is a mouthful. This goes back at least to the 1882 founding of the South British Football Soccer Association in New South Wales. Football is not a game; it is a category of games played on grass, on and partly with the foot, without any sort of stick.[[Special:Contributions/172.71.154.41|172.71.154.41]] 09:49, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

haha...I thought there actually was ''[more]'' [[Special:Contributions/172.71.182.155|172.71.182.155]] 22:10, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
:Can we get a scoreboard here for everyone who clicked on "more" somehow expecting more... :) [[User:RandalSchwartz|RandalSchwartz]] ([[User talk:RandalSchwartz|talk]]) 04:54, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
:This part of the title text is not currently mentioned in the explanation, but it is clearly intentional. I think it is suggesting that the editor/writer disappeared before finishing the thought, but I'm open to other interpretations. [[User:Ianrbibtitlht|Ianrbibtitlht]] ([[User talk:Ianrbibtitlht|talk]]) 02:27, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
:Second this. Though being on firefox/XFCE, the popup disappeared for me when moving the mouse. I actually had a look at the source code to see if there is any magical link there... Possible interpretations could also include that the gravity well appears to be have more stuff in there but in the real world there is nothing there...or everything?...well, singularity! --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.86.253|162.158.86.253]] 10:55, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

Hey, there's a new [[what if]] post [[Special:Contributions/172.70.254.165|172.70.254.165]] 19:25, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

Talk:2704: Faucet

2022-12-03T17:31:11Z

172.70.90.173:

Are faucet designs considered to be confusing? I'm never confused by normal ones like [https://www.ikea.com/us/en/images/products/sundsvik-kitchen-faucet-chrome-plated__0756711_pe749051_s5.jpg?f=s these] {{unsigned|Flekkie|02:12, 29 November 2022}}

:Yeah I came here wondering the same thing. Is the joke perhaps not so much that the controls are confusing in terms of intent, but just in terms of determining the bounds? Eg, with two identical faucet controls and identical water pressures, "full blast hot" still translates to something radically different, if one building has a water heater set to 120F and the other building has a water heater set to 160F.{{unsigned ip|172.69.170.189|02:46, 29 November 2022}}

:(I find °F confusing, personally, but...) ...the easiest thing is to have two taps, one hot and one cold. Yes, they can combine into a single spout, but there are various conflicting plusses and minuses of that over having the two independent ones per outlet. Speaking (as I'm sure mixer-tap afficionados worldwide will appreciate) as a Brit. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.24|172.70.85.24]] 03:03, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

::Relevant Tom Scott video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfHgUu_8KgA Why Britain Uses Separate Hot and Cold Taps]. TL;DR: British houses used to get their hot water from rat-filled cisterns so they wanted to keep the hot water separate from the cold water, and old habits die hard. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.63.152|162.158.63.152]] 03:34, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

:::Silliness of dual-taps aside, that doesn't solve the issue of identical tap hardware yielding radically different results depending on what the hot water thermostat is set to. Maybe that's not the original joke (I'm still not sure what it was) but it's worth mentioning at least. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.170.146|172.69.170.146]] 03:39, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

: I don't think those are confusing, but in many cases the feedback is too slow (e.g. due to the water in the pipes coming from the hot water source having cooled since the tap was last used), or inconvenient (e.g. the pressure of the hot water not being enough to trigger on-demand gas heaters). While theoretically that design allows exploring the whole temperature/pressure space, in practice one needs some trial-and-error and delay to find the correct setting (as Randall points out in the title text) to make it work. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 10:54, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

:It's really a joke we are too European to understand. Visit the US to see faucet control disasters in all their glory. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.51.203|172.68.51.203]] 10:56, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

:: Yeah, here in Europe I've seen faucets with mechanical thermostats to regulate the temperature and therefore two dials for either flow or temperature. This was more than 20 years ago. --[[User:Sarsey|Sarsey]] ([[User talk:Sarsey|talk]]) 12:01, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

:: Funny, the absolute worst faucet I experienced was in this fall in England (which is part of Europe for some definitions but not others). The temperature selection knob had 180° ambiguity---especially for my poor vision when uncorrected---and no barrier between maximum hot and maximum cold. So, I spent a shower thinking I was operating at mid-range and wondering why there seemed to be no middle ground between freezing cold and scalding hot. Fortunately had an epiphany while exploring the town. [[User:Philhower|Philhower]] ([[User talk:Philhower|talk]]) 14:13, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

: What's hot and what's cold? Do you turn it in the direction of the red to increase the temperature, or do you turn it so that you can see more of the red than the blue to increase the temperature? Taps exist that follow either convention. In the first case, you turn it to the left, while in the second you turn it to the right. That kind of tap is far more confusing than the traditional one with two knobs (though I've also seen a tap with knobs having "chaud" and "froid" on them in a country where French is not an official language without anything else to distinguish them, so I guess even that is not so straight-forward). [[Special:Contributions/172.71.126.15|172.71.126.15]] 21:12, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

:: The design that Flekkie showed has 2 directions of freedom: left-right, and up-down. Left and right is temperature, and isn't "turning" as much as "tilting" in that direction. The effective space is U-shaped. The default position you see is no water. Tilt straight back and you get lukewarm full-pressure water. The back right position is cold full-pressure water. The back left position is hot full-pressure water. To get any other pressure or temperature, just tilt somewhere within that U to get what you need (though very few people do, and just use the 4 positions). [[User:AdmiralMemo|Admiral Memo]] ([[User talk:AdmiralMemo|talk]]) 19:28, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

I sympathize with Randall here; even controls designed to independently control temperature and flow rarely meet both the "intuitive to use at a glance" and "function as described" requirements to make them non-confusing. [[User:Dextrous Fred|Dextrous Fred]] ([[User talk:Dextrous Fred|talk]]) 03:44, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be super simple to just have a slider that goes from hot to cold, and a second one that goes from slow to fast flow? Or one for hot, one for cold, with the higher the slider goes, the more the flow is increased? I don't see how much simpler you can get it. Hell, you could even use a dial for temperature (all dials turn clockwise to increase) with a digital readout. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.131.44|172.70.131.44]] 05:25, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

: I suppose the issue with that is that, unlike simple mixer taps that control the flow of hot and cold water independently, relying on the human to find the right mixture that creates the desired flow and temperature, what you're describing requires a more complex system that is able to do that process automatically, so it can't be a simple mechanical valve. It would require temperature and pressure sensors for both the hot and cold water streams, and it would have to dynamically adjust the physical valve settings depending on all six parameters (position of the flow handle/slider/knob, position of the temperature handle/slider/knob, temperature of the hot water, temperature of the cold water, pressure of the hot water, pressure of the cold water). I'm not even sure this is possible with a fully mechanical system — likely some electronics would need to be involved, which might complicate things. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 10:50, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

:: Re: 'temperature of the hot water, temperature of the cold water, pressure of the hot water, pressure of the cold water' - those sensors already exist, inside the person using the faucet. If the water isn't hot enough, move the control in the hot direction. If the pressure isn't high enough, move that control in the direction that produces greater pressure. The (subjectively) prefect combination doesn't require the controls to be in the same position every time. {{unsigned|162.158.182.20|22:44, 29 November 2022}}

:"one for hot, one for cold, with the higher the slider goes, the more the flow is increased", you just described the standard two faucet system, :) Just, with round "sliders". :) [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 05:15, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

This is probably the very first xkcd comic where I have absolutely no idea where Randal is coming from. While different people have different preferences for different designs, I've never heard of anyone being confused by any faucet design.
Maybe he's trolling us, by trying to get a rise out of people wondering what the hell he's talking about? [[User:Bischoff|Bischoff]] ([[User talk:Bischoff|talk]]) 08:20, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
:Ummmm, being confused by unfamiliar shower controls is such a common shared experience that it has become a cliche! I'm sure there's an entry on TV Tropes for it, it's so common! (See Big Bang Theory, the very first episode, for an example. The movie Groundhog Day has an adjacent example that I think might not be there without this cliche). It seems weird to think there's anybody who hasn't had this experience, usually when showering in a hotel, or friend's house, or new house... Of course, 30+ years ago this wasn't a problem, everybody had the same two-faucet system, but more recently it seems like every shower has a different system. [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 05:15, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

This may be a reference to "Design of Everyday Things - Dan Norman" or books in that direction. Although he talked a lot more about creating doors wrong he also mentioned faucet designs as terrible. [[Special:Contributions/198.41.242.29|198.41.242.29]] 09:17, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
::  I was initially drawn to the parallel/derivation from the "{{w|Build a better mousetrap, and the world will beat a path to your door|Build a better mousetrap...}}" concept, which vastly predates {{w|Don Norman|''Don''}} Norman. But it's such a widespread trope that I can't be sure it should be mentioned 'officially'. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.61|172.70.86.61]] 11:13, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

: I am actually puzzled by how many people ''don't'' relate to this, judging by the comments here. I guess I've been unlucky with the faucets I've encountered so far? Over the years I've had spontaneous conversations with multiple people abut how tap designs are either inconvenient (i.e. hard to find the right handle positions to produce the desired temperature and flow), or confusing to use, especially for hotel showers. In fact I'm adding this comment mostly so other people who share the same perception don't feel gaslighted or otherwise confused by so many people not recognizing this issue. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 10:50, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Is that hairy? looks like him? [[User:Mushrooms|Mushrooms]] ([[User talk:Mushrooms|talk]]) 10:07, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
:I think it could be, but he is looking different with the hair and because of the scruffy looks his hair standing up could be because he has torn in it. I think it is better not to include it as a Hairy comic. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:34, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Is it too pedantic to point out the distinction between a helix (the shape of the control) and a spiral (mentioned by the character)? {{unsigned ip|172.70.162.135|10:28, 29 November 2022}}
:Not really, but it could be a very shallow (by radial increase/decrease per turn) 3D spiral, I'm more concerned by the "tightening", wondering if it's a flexible spiral/helix that is manipulated dynamically, rather than merely a tap* with a funny-shaped handle/head to rotate through into the backplate.
::<nowiki>*</nowiki> - 'faucet' just makes me wait for a "force it" pun. It's a very American word that I'm not personally aware of being used throught the rest of the anglosphere. Maybe Canada, but probably not Aus/NZ/etc if my uptake of their TV/film exports is correctly remembered... Somebody may want to correct me on this issue, or add English As A Second Language metrics to this.
:What is also interesting is that the 3D-perspective drawing by our in-frame inventor, upon the perspectivised drawing surface as depicted by Randall, makes it look like very much like an actual sticky-outy object within the drawn world. Like it's actually a moulded/similar relief model/mockup, surrounded by the more standard 'wall notes' used to suggest on-the-go calculations/annotations. An interesting artistic choice (or possibly an unintentional consequence) by Randall. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.61|172.70.86.61]] 11:13, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

I think it should be added that the issue is mainly for the US. In Europe, and in the other of the rest of the world - except US - the thermostatic head has replaced most other faucet in shower, and the hand washing is not so much of an issue. My shower in some US hotels were a nightmare, where I remember taking multiple minute to understand how it might work. {{unsigned ip|172.71.130.80|11:03, 29 November 2022}}
:As a North American, I have to say I really don't know what you're describing. HOW do showers work? Controlling the temperature and water pressure??? [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 05:33, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

I think it should be added that the issue is mainly for Europe, especially Americans traveling in Europe. In the USA, where proportioning valves are common and anti-scald protection is mandated by code, controls are both intuitive and safe. {{unsigned ip|172.70.210.49|13:11, 29 November 2022}}
:So funny that these two comments in a row says the opposite. I'm from Denmark and where I sometimes dislike the designs of a faucet I have almost never found one for a tap that was a problem to understand. Sure for a shower there can be some issues, mainly because it can be too hot and problematic to stand under them when turning them on the first time. But it seems to me that this is not a serious problem in Europe. And from reading above it seems like this is in fact a US problem only. But the last comment says the opposite. by the way both sigantures unsigned, so did a check and found they where from two different IP and with time between. Was wondering if someone was trolling by writing the same comment twice with reversed meaning. But seems to not be the case. Have added signatures now. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:34, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

::I vote that "confusing faucets" is an American problem. In some places it was hard to set the faucet exactly right (either because of faucet lag, which is the fault of the water lines and not the faucet anyway, or because the controls were highly non-linear around the target I wanted), but the direction in which the controls moved was always fairly clear.
::I have been living in France most of my life, including visits to really old homes. I only ever met faucets of three kinds. In all of them water comes from a single outlet. Type 1 has two flow control knobs (one hot, one cold); type 2 has a single handle that can move in two angular directions (one for temperature, one for flow); type 3 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermostatic_mixing_valve (thermostatic valve)] has one knob for temperature and one knob for flow. Faucets use types 1 and 2, showers can use type 1, 2 or 3. Only type 3 ever confused me the first time, and that was when I was a young child (I would guess age 8 or so?). I suppose the under-the-hood engineering gives rise to all sort of interesting tradeoffs between those three types, but from a user’s perspective they are all reasonable.
::I have traveled to the UK multiple times and lived there for some time. It was mostly the same, though I have seen some dual-taps (essentially type 1 but with one tap per knob). It may be a bad user experience, but it is not confusing.
::I have been to multiple other countries on short trips and do not remember any confusing faucets... except for one US hotel. That devilish shower had a single-knob control; the temperature increased over the whole range, and the flow was maximum at mid-range. I did not mind much that it does not explore the whole shower-space (the trajectory in the flow-temperature diagram was probably a super-optimized curve rather than a straight inverted V); but I did mind that it took a few minutes of exploration to understand what happened. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.126.15|172.71.126.15]] 16:07, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
:On the contrary, as a North American, I have primarily experienced this issue in North America. :) I mean, in 2020 I spent months in a hospital, each room I was moved to had different controls! (Luckily the last and longest was fairly similar to the second to last). And if you still think it's mostly an American-in-Europe phenomenon, just watch the very first episode of Big Bang Theory, where it's an American requesting assistance getting an American shower working. (Or, you know, this comic by an American about his American experiences).[[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 05:33, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

My interpretation is that, for normal people, designing an intuitive faucet is easy: just one knob for temperature and another for flow. But designers seem to get overly creative for faucets and add all sorts of odd handles and gizmos. Figuring out a faucet at a hotel is often a task. Hence, in the comic, the designer is adding some sort of bizarre spiral handle when a regular one would be much easier. It's not that its hard to design a good faucet, but designers seem to have an odd blind spot for them. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.110.230|172.70.110.230]] 13:48, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

VERY RELEVANT ASIDE
Why aren't there digital faucets? And if this is such a bold idea It's mine [[Special:Contributions/172.70.131.43|172.70.131.43]] 14:45, 29 November 2022 (UTC) paradoxical
:There are digital faucets. Just google "IOT Shower faucet" or "IOT Faucet" I struggle to see any real utility to them however. --[[User:EvilGeniusSkis|EvilGeniusSkis]] ([[User talk:EvilGeniusSkis|talk]]) 17:15, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
::I find analogue faucets to typically be really difficult to control. Turn knobs are fine, but lifting or turning a single handle like many faucets nowadays have just don't give me enough precision. Now, my hand-eye coordination and fine motor control are bad, but not ''entirely'' terrible. So I think for some people, even turn knobs are going to be annoying to use. So digital inputs would probably make it a lot easier if you have a motor disability. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.51.108|172.68.51.108]] 20:55, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
:My first thought is because they don't run any electricity lines anywhere near the shower when building bathrooms. Water and electricity is not a good mix. :) I've often seen showers which don't even have light fixtures above them in the ceiling! Bathroom plumbing uses physics alone, the only electricity is in another room with the hot water heater. [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 05:43, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

Damn, you mean people don't just switch on the tap and cope with cold showers? Damn, major L.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.219.42|172.70.219.42]] 16:29, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Just this morning, I was in the shower which has a single lever to control the mix of hot and cold water. I always turn it all the way up to get the hot water flowing and then move it down by small degrees until it is just right. With the lag in response for each successive change it takes a seemingly unnecessary amount of time to get it "just right". I would say that it is not so much "confusing" as it is "annoying". In this faucet there is no separate way to control the flow. The flow is maximized when there is an equal amount of hot and cold water, which of course is not necessarily the optimum temperature, because it takes a very small amount of cold water mixed with the hot to make it comfortable. [[User:Rtanenbaum|Rtanenbaum]] ([[User talk:Rtanenbaum|talk]]) 17:23, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Regarding the transcript, which says "Below it is a box shape that dispenses water through a circle". What the ???. Can this be changed to, "Below it is a drawing of a spout"? [[User:Rtanenbaum|Rtanenbaum]] ([[User talk:Rtanenbaum|talk]]) 17:23, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
:Well, its not really a box shape since its a 2D drawing and boxes are 3D... so it should say "Below are 3 parallelograms that form a two-dimensional projection of a rectangular prism..." Or maybe, for brevity we can just say "Below it is a drawing of a spout." [[Special:Contributions/162.158.63.109|162.158.63.109]] 19:50, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
::I completed the transcript but did not write that sentence. I have now changed to the short suggestion from you two :-) You are allowed to make such small obvious changes your self. Don't be shy :-D --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:50, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

For hotel shower controls, even (especially?) if cleaned regularly, I find that they tend to lose the handy inlaid red and blue textures or overprinting to distiguish the relative functions of chrome or plastic dials and levers. But, even with them visible and discernable, they can be ambiguous. If a dial/rotary component has hot/cold (or flow-control) markings on the fitting it is sat upon then it tends to show which direction to twist it for which change. But if it's marked ''on the dial'' then there's two opposing conventions used for a fairly standard "arrow with increasing line-width towards the head" marker:
:1) Twist the dial in the direction of the more blue bit (incidentally showing more of the opposing red arrow) when you want the cooler temperature, this being a 'turn this way for more "blue water"' sort of thing,
:2) The thicker bit of blue is supposed to be read as aligned to something subtle, like a notch/ridge mark, upon the static backplate, meaning that you should twist the dial in the ''opposite'' direction to bring the "more blue" into play.
...though some (like central-heating radiator controls) do disambuguate this by having the red/blue meshed long thin triangles (and maybe digits/tick-lines to easily establish a position and any small change) hidden within a shroud with just a small window upon the 'meaningful' uppermost/foremost bit of the twisting pattern. Of course, the chances that any one hotel's chosen fitting is easily recognisable as the same as the last one you used in a different hotel (or the last visit to this one!) are not great. I'm sure there's going to be someone who collects "hotel plumbing" photos, or similar, to catalogue their sheer variety. Certainly it's something I might have wished to have started to do, but seems a bit late to begin now. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.53|172.70.91.53]] 19:37, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
:Here's an idea: put a little plastic window on the faucet and have the colour behind it turn red or blue. So depending on how it's made, the blue/red thing turns behind the plastic window, or the window shifts over the blue/red thing. Either way, if you can only see red, it's hot; and if you can only see blue, it's cold. And the colours won't get worn away since they are behind a little window. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.251.121|172.70.251.121]] 21:02, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
You know, it seems like the most common complaint with faucets of any kind is that the sweet spot between hot and cold is so hard to hit. Meanwhile, most of the range is used for various degrees of cold water which barely feel different. It reminds me of linear rgb, where most of the range is used by bright looking shades, with it only getting darker rapidly near the black end. I think a good start for a better faucet would be nonlinear mixing, where the knob gets less "sensitive" as you move it towards hot. This would sacrifice precision for cold temperatures, but how often do you really need a specific cold temperature (aside from fully unheated)? [[Special:Contributions/141.101.76.81|141.101.76.81]] 08:44, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

Delta makes a tub control/spigot that flummoxes every visitor to my home: The control is single-action [temp] but to turn on the shower you have to pull down a ring under the tip of the spigot. I give a ‘lesson’ to every new visitor now.
[[Special:Contributions/172.70.174.114|172.70.174.114]] 12:03, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

Uh, in all the two-faucet systems I've ever seen in my life, I have NEVER seen or heard of the hot and cold having uneven water pressure or one overpowering the other or the cold premixing into the hot or whatever complications are being invented in the description, ???? Sure, the don't flush the toilet, don't run the washer/dishwasher thing, that's super common and widespread, but that's nothing to do with the two faucet system, that's just the physics of water. And my experiences are VARIED, from up-to-date houses and nicely maintained hotels all the way down to "This cabin barely has indoor plumbing". [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 05:51, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

[https://imgur.com/a/YDcE1La Here is] a system to add to the list. Three taps. Separate Hot and Cold bath taps plus single (one-degree of adjustment, first on/more water then more hot) for the shower. Only took a moment ir two to work it out (without glasses, I hadn't read the notice). [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.173|172.70.90.173]] 17:31, 3 December 2022 (UTC) - PS, as I don't have any mainstream social media presence, I was wondering if Kiri at Staverton Park can be mentioned here? The room was as neat and tidy as I might hope to expect, and I wouldn't want to penalise her just because of my failings...

2705: Spacetime Soccer

2022-12-01T13:00:30Z

172.70.90.173: /* Transcript */ Needs a full rewrite/reformat, but here's some other relevent description.

{{comic
| number = 2705
| date = November 30, 2022
| title = Spacetime Soccer
| image = spacetime_soccer_2x.png
| imagesize = 740x280px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = Spacetime Soccer, known outside the United States as '4D Football' is a now-defunct sport. Infamous for referee decisions hinging on inconsistent definitions of simultaneity, it is also known for the disappearance of many top players during... [more]
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a FOUR-DIMENSIONAL GOALIE - I still don't know what the offside rule actually is. I think it might... [more]. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
This comic proposes Spacetime Soccer, an impossible{{Citation needed}} sport consisting of a "regular" football field with a gravitational well in the center of it (although given the size of the indent presented, it would likely be spanning the size of planetary orbits). Not only would it be impossible for human players to travel through more than three spatial dimensions, it would also be very difficult to keep track of score and rules such as offsides. This comic was likely published in relation to the 2022 World Cup.

{{w|Offside (association football)|Offside}} is a description in soccer that applies to players who are in certain positions relative to the boundaries of the pitch, the ball, and the second-last opponent on the opposing team. Players in such positions are eligible for being judged guilty of an offside offence if they become involved in the ongoing play before rectifying their status. It is of special importance to know the different players' positions at the exact moment the ball gets passed, rather than when the passed ball may be received or the offside player is otherwise considered active. But in relativistic spacetime there is no universal definition of an exact moment, beyond a single point, as time may run at different speeds for multiple observers in varying situations (where they are moving relative to each other, are influenced by differing local gravity or – as seems very likely in this example – both).

The title text is written in the style of the beginning to a Wikipedia article on the topic. It mocks the fact that most countries in the world refer to the sport with that particular obscure offside rule as football (or some translation thereof, like fútbol or Fußball) while the USA call it soccer, which comes from the British shortening of "association football", because they already used the name "football" for gridiron football.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

Some of the lines of a standard Association Football pitch are drawn on a "rubber sheet" visualisation of a gravity well in four dimensional spacetime. Visible features of the standard pitch are the outside borders, the goals and the small and large boxes around each. Absent are the corner quarter circles, the penalty spots and associated D, and the centre line. The central circle seems absent, but could be concealed by the curvature of the sheet. There are a number of other lines encircling and radial to the gravity well, they are visually identical to the familiar pitch markings so it is unclear whether these are intended to be drawn on the pitch or merely indications of the shape of the surface. The lengthwise field boundary line on each side partly follows/is partly followed by a suitable radial line before splitting off and conspicuously curving within the respective lip of the well to rejoin the radial line emerging at the complimentary angle in the opposing half of the field. A total of twenty figures can be seen on the pitch. Two are standing near the goal mouths, the rest are distributed around, and (as stick figures) it is impossible to say which are on each team or if one is the referee, and the ones most within the well (but still visible) are distorted or tilted by the increased slope of the surface. A ball with motion lines is landing by the feet of one player who is running up one wing. There are six figures plus the goalkeeper closer to the goal in the direction the player and ball are travelling, so (if the image shows "simultaneous" positions) the player is unlikely to be offside.

:Spacetime soccer got a lot of criticism for how many players fell into the gravity well, but what ultimately doomed it was the advanced mathematics required to figure out the offsides rule.

{{comic discussion}}

Talk:861: Wisdom Teeth

2022-12-01T11:43:33Z

172.70.90.173: It's a valid comment, but not sure what particularly it might be in response to.

Why should all three parts of the anesthetic have to wear off? It seems like Randall would probably not write "Everything ok" if he could feel the procedure. [[Special:Contributions/75.69.96.225|75.69.96.225]] 02:10, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

^ Agreed, it is most likely the anæsthetic and paralytic wore off, leaving the analgesic. So, he was awake, but "Everything [was] ok", because he was not feeling pain. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.14|108.162.216.14]] 15:39, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

I Gotta get my wisdom teeth removed asap! ~~JFreund

Could this be a reference to superflat mode?[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.84|108.162.216.84]] 22:31, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

^ No, this was during beta 1.2 when there were no modes. ~iFinity

Related? http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=846 [[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.176|108.162.238.176]] 21:22, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

I think that the guy was crazy but if this was before super flat, it could have possibly have been a model used in the mode. {{unsigned|Otis}}

The phrase "Due to the inhibitory effects of painkillers" is flat-out wrong (pun intended). Opioids don't cause that kind of behaviour, and even if they did in some people, this wouldn't be due to their inhibitory effects on pain (they in fact exert a stimulatory effect on the mu-opioid receptor and more or less an happy and easy-going, while sleepy, state of mind). This is more a reflection of the personality of Cueball being exposed by his drunken-like state, if anything. I edited the sentence by replacing this with "While intoxicated with painkillers" ~~ A concerned M.D.

Could the title text be a reference to ''Memento''? --[[User:Nick818|Nick818]] ([[User talk:Nick818|talk]]) 21:59, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

In Minecraft: Playstation 4 version, there is a option to do a flat world like that in comic. {{unsigned ip|141.101.96.209 }}

In actuality, no Minecraft map is infinite- just obscenely big. This probably could not be done in the appropriate time span given, but it could eventually be done. {Sauron, the Dark Lord}

We're just gonna ignore the thing about being a hologram, huh? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.170.56|172.69.170.56]] 18:44, 11 December 2020 (UTC)mezimm

Looks just like a superflat world; also LOOK AT ANCIENT MINECRAFT :OO THE ARMOUR BAR IS IN PLACE OF THE HUNGER BAR :OOO [[User:Beanie|Beanie]] ([[User talk:Beanie|talk]]) 10:30, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

Sea level is at Y 62! {{unsigned ip|162.158.86.253|10:21, 1 December 2022}}

Talk:2700: Account Problems

2022-11-21T16:49:46Z

172.70.90.173:

What was going on with this page? [[User:Sarah the Pie(yes, the food)|Sarah the Pie(yes, the food)]] ([[User talk:Sarah the Pie(yes, the food)|talk]]) 00:58, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

:Vandalism. I mentioned it on the [[explain xkcd:Community portal/Admin requests|Admin requests]] page. It's getting reverted back to normal pretty quickly when it happens, but it will probably keep happening until an admin bans the person doing it, or the person doing it gets bored and stops on their own. [[User:Equites|Equites]] ([[User talk:Equites|talk]]) 01:05, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

are two nazis actually in an edit war or is it just one person astroturfing --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.63.100|162.158.63.100]] 01:18, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

I'm trying to combat it, but I'll only be able to keep this up for around another 20 minutes or so. [[User:InfoManiac|InfoManiac]] ([[User talk:InfoManiac|talk]]) 01:21, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

:Is TheusafBot ofline or something? Generally it handles this sort of stuff pretty well--[[User:Mapron01|Mapron01]] ([[User talk:Mapron01|talk]]) 01:44, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
::I'm pretty sure he is. [[User:Starstar|Starstar]] ([[User talk:Starstar|talk]]) 02:23, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

This reminds me of the time I used a character in my password that was the "stty kill" character for one workstation's default console terminal settings. I normally logged in via ssh, and occasionally logged in via xdm, but the time I tried logging in via the console, it really didn't like what was left of my password. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.180|162.158.62.180]] 01:25, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
:Ah, the good old days when ordinary printing characters were used for erase and kill. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 01:43, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

Vandals are just looking for a fun time, generally. Solution: make it not a fun time for them. Revert their edits dryly, patiently, with no particular comment or anything. Eventually they will get bored and find something else to do. Or, perhaps they'll sit there vandalizing while we revert them, we dozens against probably just one vandal. But if you make your irritation clear, that's "fun" to them, and they'll keep at it with renewed vigour. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.239|108.162.216.239]] 01:37, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

I accidentally used a backspace character in a username one time. It caused all sorts of problems with my account.

Also, I've never found the whole "The trolls will leave you alone if you don't move." thing to be effective. But I've never found anything else to be effective at universally adjusting behavior either.
-Master Areth

I wrote most of the current page after the first paragraph. It's a fairly sloppy first draft that could probably use some editing. Anyone who can should feel free to clean it up. Especially since the page is now protected (I'm not complaining; it was necessary) and so I can't edit it any more. [[User:Equites|Equites]] ([[User talk:Equites|talk]]) 05:57, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
:Hi [[User:Equites|Equites]], I [[Special:Diff/299457|rewrote]] the explanation, hope that's okay. I removed the references to the security aspect because I didn't think it was relevant. (Also pinging [[User:FrankHightower|FrankHightower]].) --[[User:Hddqsb|Hddqsb]] ([[User talk:Hddqsb|talk]]) 07:59, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
::The first paragraph seems a bit superfluous - it's basically just a description of the comic, so isn't really adding anything to the explanation. Also, I think the bit about Pascal could come out of the second para - it doesn't appear to be relevant to what's going on in the comic, so it could just skip to the bit about null terminators.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.54|172.70.91.54]] 16:46, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Seems to be another Tech issue comic, its a tech issue with Cueball talking to Megan and the tech issue is extremely cursed. Should we add this one?[[Special:Contributions/162.158.22.98|162.158.22.98]] 06:00, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

"since there is no sequence of keys he could type that would result in a null terminator" ... I can type a NULL (ASCII 00) just fine in my editor on Linux (ctrl-v ctrl-@, the latter I type as ctrl-shift-2). However, I am not quite sure how to phrase this in the explanation without sounding like "Áctually! ...." [[User:henrikar|Henri]]
:I am amused that both in the main text and in this comment something has converted the "at sign" into [email protected].

The title text is likely a reference to [https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/yqof9f/comment/ivrd9ur/ this reddit post]. [[User:Pb|Pb]] ([[User talk:Pb|talk]]) 07:06, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
: I don't think that's likely... --[[User:Hddqsb|Hddqsb]] ([[User talk:Hddqsb|talk]]) 08:50, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

The only thing is I'm pretty sure it's not terribly difficult to enter a null string character, you just have to know what it is. On a PC with a keyboard that has a number pad, you can press Alt-[Number] to enter special characters using their ASCII code (Alt-65 will get "A", Alt-8 is backspace or delete, I forget which but I think BS, etc. MIGHT need leading zeroes to be 3 digits). The 0 to 31 codes - 32 is space, starting the normal characters - tend to have all the special characters, I think null string is 0? [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 04:14, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
:It is. And (with caveats, depending upon other issues and circumstances) Alt-numpad0 would give me the null-char wherever it's practical and not blocked (intentionally or just because it isn't specifically catered for).[[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.206|172.71.178.206]] 15:25, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
::I know a sysadmin friend of mine had to help a user whose account name was "🦙" (The Llama unicode symbol) and he was on a computer where not all layers between the username field and the password authentication understood unicode. Examples like this will happen in real life. [[User:IIVQ|IIVQ]] ([[User talk:IIVQ|talk]]) 11:16, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
:::Were they Spanish, by any chance?[[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.173|172.70.90.173]] 16:49, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

As Cueball is showing and handing over his laptop, I don't think the issue is about a website account (where he could probably do a password reset), but his local account on the laptop, of which he is now locked out, and hopes Poneytail can break into it? [[User:Ghen|ghen]] ([[User talk:Ghen|talk]]) 18:28, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
:Good point, updated to avoid referring to "website" specifically. (Another possibility is that it is the password for some installed application.) --[[User:Hddqsb|Hddqsb]] ([[User talk:Hddqsb|talk]]) 07:17, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

''"Suppose a website's registration form allows the user's new password to have up to 20 characters, but due to a programmer error the login page only accepts passwords with up to 18 characters."'' 
There are also cases where page or application is updated with the expectation that old user accounts will still be working, but updated page no longer accepts same characters (or number of characters) than the old one, locking some people out. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 01:35, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
:I know from experience that (at least one version of) Windows Server allows very long passwords and that the Windows Server installer will accept very long passwords when setting up the initial admin account, but that the installer silently truncates the password to a "normal" length when actually setting up said account. If you aren't aware of this (and you have a client that uses ridiculously long passwords), you can easily trick yourself into thinking you mistyped and locked yourself out, and have to reinstall. Once installed with a shorter password, it can be changed to whatever length you want.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.134.122|172.70.134.122]] 16:16, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Concerning the password described in the title text. If the characters are used in the order they appear in the Unicode Table the password starts with the Null String Terminator and therefor you will essentially end up with an empty password if C or a programming language is used handling strings the same way. [[User:Kimmerin|Kimmerin]] ([[User talk:Kimmerin|talk]]) 12:51, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
: Good point, added ([[Special:Permalink/299540|snapshot]]). --[[User:Hddqsb|Hddqsb]] ([[User talk:Hddqsb|talk]]) 15:38, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

I've actually had this problem long ago; I used the @ sign as part of my password, and it didn't let me log in anymore. Some systems in the good old days (I think it was an FTP server) used the @ character to separate username and password when authenticating. Also, I am still running into this problem sometimes with usernames (emails) allowing "+" in the address on registration, but not when logging in. [[User:Pbb|Pbb]] ([[User talk:Pbb|talk]])
:The @-sign is used to separate authentication and hostname information in an URL, e.g. http://user:passwd@server.example.com:port/... Within an FTP-session it was commonly used in FTP-proxy scenarios, i.e. you've connected to an internal FTP-proxy-server providing username and hostname as username in the form username@remoteserver.example.com (similar to the syntax used for scp/sftp) and the password as is. An @-sign in the password in the latter shouldn't have any effect and within the URL an @-character would get URL-encoded not having an effect, either. URL-encoding might be the reason for the last problem, you've described leading to a space in the stored value on the server side. [[User:Kimmerin|Kimmerin]] ([[User talk:Kimmerin|talk]]) 15:50, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

2699: Feature Comparison

2022-11-19T01:33:10Z

172.70.90.173: /* Explanation */ Corrected apostrophes (contraction, not possession)

{{comic
| number = 2699
| date = November 16, 2022
| title = Feature Comparison
| image = feature_comparison_v2.png
| imagesize =
| noexpand = true
| titletext = Below the Web, and the Dark Web, a shadowy parallel world of Cybiko users trade messages on the Translucent Neon Plastic Web.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a MULTIHOMED MESH NODE. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

This comic compares different remote communication services, including the relatively well-known {{w|Twitter}}, {{w|Discord}}, {{w|Mastodon (software)|Mastodon}}, {{w|Facebook}} (FB), {{w|Slack (software)|Slack}}, {{w|Signal (software)|Signal}}, {{w|Internet Relay Chat}} (IRC), {{w|Tumblr}}, {{w|Reddit}}, and {{w|SMS}} mobile telephone text messages. It also includes the less well-known {{w|Cybiko}}® wireless handheld computer for teens. For each of these, it purports to indicate which of various features they support. The comic illustrates how feature comparison charts/infographics can be abused by sellers who are trying to make their products look better than they really are, compared to their main competitors. The comic was likely inspired by the recent news coverage of Twitter's purchase by {{w|Elon Musk}}, and the subsequent mass firings and resignation of its staff, causing many users to start looking for alternatives.

The Cybiko was a handheld computer designed for teens and released in 2000, which featured its own two-way radio text messaging capabilities along with built-in games and a music player. Additional information about it is available at [http://cultureandcommunication.org/deadmedia/index.php/Cybiko the Dead Media Archive], as the device has not been manufactured since 2003. The chart implies that the Cybiko has an advantage over all of the other listed communication services, as it is capable of all eight of the table's listed features - {{w|Private message|direct messaging}}, {{w|group chat}}s, {{w|file transfer}}, built-in {{w|video game|games}}, instances of the software run by individual users instead of the corporation producing it, lack of a {{w|Server (computing)|central server}} requirement, {{w|mesh networking}}, and wireless message delivery without an active internet connection - with none of the others being close.

The comic, purposefully, does not mention the downsides of the Cybiko, that being purchasing and finding friends who own one can be its own challenge, as it was discontinued nearly 20 years ago. Additionally, the comparison can be considered apples to oranges, since Cybiko is a ''device'' rather than a ''service''; a fairer comparison would be to a modern {{w|smartphone}}, which can provide most of these features via multiple apps, including ones written especially for such rival services. Even ignoring the above, some of the Cybiko's "advantages" come with their own drawbacks: while not requiring a central server nor the Internet, for example, is touted as a plus, the Cybiko instead relies on having other devices in proximity to relay messages, meaning unless the person you are sending to is nearby it will not function, which is not an issue of any of the other options. "Mesh networking" is simply a consequence of the design, and is thus akin to advertising say, that a car makes ''vroom'' noises.

This comic contains several errors. Mastodon doesn't require a central server, or support file transfer. Discord does not provide for user-run instances itself, only user-moderated and administrated instances. (There are two third party Discord server implementations, but it is unclear whether those could be counted as run by users.) Slack does not provide for user-run instances itself. Reddit does not provide for user-run instances at all, only user moderation and administration. IRC does require at least one central server,[https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc1459.html] and relegates file transfer support to the domain of client extensions. Signal is heavily used in user-run instances via a diverse ecosystem of code forks; many of these don't require a central server, a couple use mesh networking. Reddit occasionally does have built-in games. Finally, Tumblr and SMS both have a form of group chats. An earlier version of the comic suggesting that Mastodon has no user-run instances was corrected by [[Randall]] shortly after publication of the original.

The title text refers to the translucent plastic covers that were popular in the late '90s and early '00s.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[A table with checkmarks to indicate which features various messaging services have. Each column is labeled with a service name and its logo beneath, except that for the last column, the device's longer name is written higher than all the other services' names, with an arrow pointing to a drawing of the device below it.]

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!
! Twitter
! Discord
! Mastodon
! FB
! Slack
! Signal
! IRC
! Tumblr
! Reddit
! SMS
! Cybiko® wireless handheld computer for teens (2000)
|-
! Direct messages
| ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || ✓
|-
! Group chats
| ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || || ✓ || || ✓
|-
! File transfer
| || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || || ✓ || || ✓
|-
! Built-in games
| || ✓ || || ✓ || || || || || || || ✓
|-
! User-run instances
| || ✓ || ✓ || || ✓ || || ✓ || || ✓ || || ✓
|-
! Doesn't require central server
| || || || || || || ✓ || || || || ✓
|-
! Mesh networking
| || || || || || || || || || || ✓
|-
! Wireless message delivery works without internet
| || || || || || || || || || ✓ || ✓
|-
|}

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Charts]]
[[Category:Social networking]]

File talk:konigsberg 2x.png

2022-11-06T16:02:26Z

172.70.90.173:

Is fine. —[[User:While False|While False]] ([[User:While False/explain xkcd museum|'''museum''']] | [[User talk:While False|talk]] | [[special:Contributions/While_False|contributions]] | [[special:Log/While_False|logs]] | [[Special:UserRights/While_False|rights]]) 21:45, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
:Again with the strange edits/page-making, WF... I wish I knew why. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.204|162.158.34.204]] 00:52, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
::We don’t discuss our files. This is the only file talk active in the last 30 days. —[[User:While False|While False]] ([[User:While False/explain xkcd museum|'''museum''']] | [[User talk:While False|talk]] | [[special:Contributions/While_False|contributions]] | [[special:Log/While_False|logs]] | [[Special:UserRights/While_False|rights]]) 07:24, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
:::Hence the mystery (to me, at least) as to why you even started a potential discussion of it. and I'm [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=File_talk:konigsberg_2x.png&diff=298270&oldid=298268 sorry I mentioned it]. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.193|141.101.98.193]] 12:57 (and then 16:01ish), 6 November 2022 (UTC)

Talk:2536: Wirecutter

2022-11-03T06:45:57Z

172.70.90.173:

Note: they don't say they tried out a large number of ''religions'' but a large number of '''belief systems'''. This could include things like "Libertarianism" or "Monarchists". (By CWALLENPOOLE, but not signed in.)
:But the picture of the article title says “The Best Religion” [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.233|108.162.216.233]] 20:31, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

The phrase "highly controversial" should not be used in the explanation. For the record, I am opposed to the things listed in that sentence and my objection is not based in a desire to defend them. Religion itself might be said to be "highly controversial" so the use in the last sentence is both superfluous and biased. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.82.53|172.70.82.53]] 00:34, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

I really want this article to be real. ----Dave
: Me too. I did something similar in my early 20s, and feel such an article honestly done would be a great help to many. In fact, the current description is slightly inaccurate- in that even lifelong practitioners, do usually have a wandering time in early adulthood if not given direction. Such an article would give some direction.[[User:Seebert|Seebert]] ([[User talk:Seebert|talk]]) 15:03, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
:Try kialo.com/what-is-the-best-religion-to-believe-3371 . [[Special:Contributions/172.70.82.53|172.70.82.53]] 00:16, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

The major problem with trying multiple religions is that to fully test a religion you need to die - and most people only die once, with the ability to die multiple times being exclusive feature of small number of religions. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 04:49, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
:I ain't mad Hkmaly, but the idea that a religion's primary purpose is to promote a vision of the afterlife is alien to a lot of religions (including my own flavor of Judaism), whose policy on the hereafter is "afterlife, shmafterlife, pass the bagels." Hence also my edits toning down the "religions are about provable belief claims" rhetoric (eyeroll). ----Ben
::Reviewers rarely fully test tech items. (e.g. they often don't cover complete lifecycle costs - what happens to the device after it dies, how easy is it to move on to a new one, etc.) Don't have to test everything to have a meaningful review.
::Many religions make claims about impacts in this life. (e.g., intercessory prayer) Such claims are eminently testable. A comparative review would be interesting. I am only aware of a few such tests, mostly comparing a single product to general average or to no intervention {{w|Efficacy of prayer}}. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.167|108.162.245.167]] 19:18, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

It doesn't look like the search bar text says "search," but I can't make out what it actually says.--[[User:KrazyKat|KrazyKat]] ([[User talk:KrazyKat|talk]]) 06:33, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
:Maybe it says Seance, since for "seach" the high stoke from the H is missing. -- [[Special:Contributions/162.158.203.10|162.158.203.10]] 07:33, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
::or Sermon maybe, that would fit the theme
:Could be Search with large S and smaller caps for the rest? Anyone subscribe to the NYT and care to visit the actual WireCutter site to see the formatting? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.147.195|172.70.147.195]] 12:40, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
:: Don't need to be a subscriber to see the site. It says "Show me the best..." [[User:Paddles|Paddles]] ([[User talk:Paddles|talk]]) 13:26, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

I don't want to sound controversial but tithing would be a refreshing change comparing to current tax systems [[User:Tkopec|Tkopec]] ([[User talk:Tkopec|talk]]) 10:31, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
: Agreed- 10% is much less than the near 50% I'm paying when I figure it all in.[[User:Seebert|Seebert]] ([[User talk:Seebert|talk]]) 15:03, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
:: You really want to pay tithes AND taxes? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.63|108.162.249.63]] 18:54, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

Last night I was writing a huge thing about religions' almost universal reluctance to be 'tried out' (lestways allowing easy unsubscription at the end)  but on reflection, after a night's sleep, I'm wondering if they just had 70+ 'mystery shoppers' tasked to report back on one assigned 'product' each, their reports aggregated so this didn't matter too much (to the overall report-writers, at least). [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.175|172.70.85.175]] 14:31, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

Also, the 'religious' wars metaphor extends quite easily to different platforms, yet (say) laptop reviews might compare a set of Windows vs a Mac or two (vs Chromebook, and maybe others) as options. And when it comes to keyboards, the QWERTY-Othodoxy and the Dvorak-Reformists both have bad (and untrue) things to say about each other, when 'enough time' with any given layout should be good enough to prosper in that. (That said, I had a {{w|Casio_FX-702P|programmable calculator}} from the '80s until it gave up the ghost some time post-Millenium, and I really did not get on with its ''alphabetical''-order keyboard all that time, perhaps because I was QWERTYing almost everywhere else.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.175|172.70.85.175]] 14:31, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
:In the case of religions though, the wars are not allegorical, they are literal. Nothing else in human experience really compares to the effects of a religious war (except ''maybe'' our wars to support a certain socioeconomic idealogy). The impact of format wars don't even come close; even if you count Uranium VS Thorium. This comic doesn't really draw a ''comparison'' between reviewing religions & reviewing products; so much as it ''contrasts'' the enormous differences in how we approach the two subjects... 
:[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 17:41, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

(Also also: QWERTY with UK-layout is my own personal sub-sect, with occasional need to adapt to US-layout (physically printed keycaps and/or what the computer ''thought'' was plugged in) with " and # and ~ characters amongst the main jumbled up ones, and no easy £ access. Which wasn't actually as unnerving as being in the 'wrong' bit of Belfast, but had the same subtle note of discordant undertone to it until I shifted my mental gears or ideally corrected the situation satisfactorarily by configuration.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.175|172.70.85.175]] 14:31, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

There's a book by John S. Dunne, ''The Way of All the Earth'', that advocates essentially trying out religions while keeping one foot in one's own (Dunne describes it as "crossing the abyss and crossing back"). [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.158|162.158.74.158]] 17:17, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

Surprised no-one has yet mentioned this joke was done in almost exactly the same way on the UK satirical TV show TW3 in 1963 by David Frost (of later Frost/Nixon fame). --- jg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRZWyfERiCc

I was just looking for psychological/psychiatrical papers that say something about the frequency of mental illnesses by religion. Maaaaaaaaaayyybeeeeeeeeee there is a religion that is clearly superior to other religions in that regard, and so government health officials could make a recommendation to change to a specific religion. :-P --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.88.57|162.158.88.57]] 10:58, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
:But then, illnesses (as well as the symptoms of the same illness) depend on the culture, so my sardonic idea was probably left unresearched...--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.106|162.158.91.106]] 12:23, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

Feels like there should be a line in there about how religion is itself often "that which determines what is valued" and therefore very hard to treat objectively. So, for example, if your religion taught that discipline was inherently good, you would think less of another religion that specifically warned against the dangers of excessive discipline. Meanwhile, a member of that religion might think YOUR religion was worse, because - according to the tenets of THEIR religion - you put TOO MUCH emphasis on discipline, while you think your emphasis is correct and THEY are wrong for not having it.
Now, granted, people might want different things from their technology - one person might want user-friendliness, another might value greater customizability - but religion is different in that it, in itself, informs our understandings of "what is valuable". It would be like if Apple users actively began extolling the benefits of user-friendliness BECAUSE they are Apple users and Apple itself is what taught them to value user-friendliness, while Linux users were originally indifferent but BECAME fans of customizability BECAUSE they used Linux. (And yes, there can be cult-like elements of both fandoms, but hopefully the distinction I'm drawing here is reasonably clear: religion tells you what is valuable, technology does not.)

(Also, why all the Judaism-specific stuff now?) --mezimm [[Special:Contributions/172.69.68.106|172.69.68.106]] 16:42, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

Rather than picking one religion - join them all. Slag-blah takes a militant agnostic approach (we don't know, and neither do you). So they believe in/practice all religions (one a day for a year, so their calendar is 7,823 days long). From [https://web.archive.org/web/20150428210028/http://www.airshipentertainment.com/buckcomic.php?date=20071222 Buck Godot Zap Gun for Hire - Learning about Slag-blah by Phil Foglio, Dec. 2007] Sadly hard to find online, but here is the relevant page from the archive. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.167|108.162.245.167]] 19:18, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

Went to graduate school (Wash U, St Louis) where one of my classmates said [of the weather!], "I don't know what religion to be." Huh? He explained his habit was to try out a different religion each season, but the weather that month had been changing so often that he didn't know which one to follow on a given day! [Think he was only half serious]

I feel like the explanation's focus on "can't easily change religion" is both inaccurate and quite missing the point. Religious freedom is not about whether belief is inherent or chosen, but rather about the fact that no one has the right to tell anyone else what to believe. The controversial part, IMO, is not "criticism of an inherent feature like race", but rather, it's the fact that Wirecutter is analysing belief systems, not by trying to judge their truthfulness, but in simple ROI terms. It's a bit like analysing whether female or male children are more cost-effective; people will get upset about the fact that you made the analysis in such mercenary terms at all.

I am also concerned with the paragraph speculating about ease of changing religion and its possible implications towards comparison between discrimination on the basis of political belief versus skin color. This is a topic about which there is much debate in many places and I'm not sure that debate is appropriate for this site. I say this not out of any particular stance regarding that debate, I say that because this site is intended to provide explanations relating to XKCD and not really for comparison of different kinds of discrimination. I'm going to remove that paragraph. If you strongly disagree please feel to revert my edit but I'd appreciate it if you would then share here why you think it helps explain the comic to someone who might not otherwise understand. [[User:Tomb|Tomb]] ([[User talk:Tomb|talk]]) 13:31, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

:The fact that people cannot compare and choose a religion (and are also willing to die with their chosen religion, e.g. in the face of persecution) is the very reason religious freedom exists. Thank you for deleting the section. I will not contribute here for a while.--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.89.128|162.158.89.128]] 22:42, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
::This wiki is exclusively about presentation of the comic, not discussion. Nor is it a Mom an' Pop shop where you can threaten their lively hood and stomp out and feel superior. Consider going to reddit or any other media to discuss the expanded meanings of these comics. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.126.125|172.70.126.125]] 18:00, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

Pascal's Wager has literally nothing to do with this comic. Literally nothing. I'm tempted to remove that paragraph altogether, especially since it's also presenting an atheistic critique of the idea and thereby slanting the neutrality of the explanation. --mezimm [[Special:Contributions/172.69.71.47|172.69.71.47]] 13:46, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

The assumptions here really need pruning. For starters, groups *exist* to do exactly what is suggested here: http://shipoffools.com/mystery-worshipper/ being a perfect example. Just as brand loyalty to car manufacturers doesn't prevent reviews, neither does loyalty to religions. And while the claim that all wars are purely economic has been debunked, the idea of purely religious wars will get similar mocking from historians. The claim of exclusivity is absurd, given that Christians use the Jewish scriptures, and Muslims regard both Moses and Jesus as prophets; the Messianic Jews are the most famous example of belonging to two religions.

:Huh? Mystery worshipper isn't about reviewing *religions* but different congregations of the same religion (at least if we consider Protestants, Catholics, Orthodox etc. all part of the same religion, which many do). This is a much easier (and less self-defeating) task than what the comic suggests.--[[Special:Contributions/172.69.34.80|172.69.34.80]] 01:48, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
::"...which many do..."? It depends upon [https://upjoke.com/heretic-jokes who you ask]... (Multiple versions there of the one that I mean!) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.173|172.70.90.173]] 06:45, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

2692: Interior Decorating

2022-11-01T10:55:08Z

172.70.90.173: It can be done well or badly. And can be received well or badly.

{{comic
| number = 2692
| date = October 31, 2022
| title = Interior Decorating
| image = interior_decorating_2x.png
| imagesize = 281x424px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = It all came flat-packed in Pandora's Box.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by A BOX OF SIEGE WEAPONS - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
The {{w|Damocles|sword of Damocles}}, {{w|Siege Perilous}}, {{w|Chekhov's gun}}, and {{w|Pandora's box}} are legendary/fictional physical objects associated with impending threats. These names are now used metaphorically for complex concepts related to danger. Cueball seems to take these names literally, and decorates his house with objects like those named, apparently claiming that his objects ''are'' the originals. Physical objects are not, of course, hypothetical/abstract concepts [https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/abstract].{{Citation needed}}

The Sword of Damocles is a sword that hangs over the king's throne, held in place by a single hair. It represents the constant danger that people in power are in because their actions inevitably make enemies. As an idiom, it refers to a threat "hanging over your head".

The Siege Perilous is a seat at the Round Table, reserved by Merlin for the knight destined to retrieve the Holy Grail. It was said to be fatal to any unworthy person who sat in it.

Chekhov's Gun is a principle of story-telling that states that every element in a story must be necessary, and irrelevant elements should be removed. For instance, if there's a loaded gun on the stage of a play, someone should eventually shoot it and this must be relevant to the plot. This term references a letter Anton Chekhov sent to a fellow playwright, whom Chekhov advised to drop superfluous elements from his script. Experienced writers learn when this principle can be violated, much as experienced audiences/readers have grasped this trope and may enter into a friendly game of trying to predict what will be considered significant, later on, or being (hopefully) enjoyably misled and misdirected ahead of a different plot twist with perhaps a different and overlooked justification in the original setting.

Pandora's Box is a legendary box (originally a jar) that Pandora was told never to open. Eventually she did, and unleashed all the miseries into the world. It has come to represent any situation where a simple ill-considered action results in numerous problems.

Thus each of the four objects represents the likelihood of future harm. Being in a room with them should make Cueball's guests very nervous.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[Cueball and Megan stand in a room. At one wall a sword hangs by a thread above a chair. On another wall a rifle is fastened to a board. Meghan has one arm stretched towards the rifle.]
:Cueball: Yeah, I think the sword of Damocles looks nice hanging over the Siege Perilous.
:Cueball: Hey, don’t touch Chekhov’s gun!

:[Caption below panel:]
:My home decorating theme is "ominous metaphorical objects."

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Fiction]]

2692: Interior Decorating

2022-11-01T01:56:05Z

172.70.90.173: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 2692
| date = October 31, 2022
| title = Interior Decorating
| image = interior_decorating_2x.png
| imagesize = 281x424px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = It all came flat-packed in Pandora's Box.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by CHEKHOV'S SMOKING GUN - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
{{w|Chekhov's gun}}, {{w|Siege Perilous}}, the {{w|Damocles|sword of Damocles}} and {{w|Pandora's box}} are physical objects that represent complex concepts. Cueball seems to take these names literally, and decorates his house with objects like those named, claiming that his objects ''are'' the concepts. Physical objects are not, of course, hypothetical/abstract concepts.{{Citation needed}}

The Sword of Damocles is a sword that hangs over the king's throne, held in place by a thread. It represents the constant danger that people in power are in from their enemies. As an idiom, it refers to a threat "hanging over your head".

Chekhov's Gun represents a principle of story-telling that states that every element in a story must be necessary, and irrelevant elements should be removed. For instance, if there's a loaded gun on the stage of a play, someone should eventually shoot it and this must be relevant to the plot. (This term comes from a letter Anton Chekhov sent to a fellow playwright, whom Chekhov advised to drop superfluous elements from his script.) Experienced writers learn when this principle can be violated.

The Siege Perilous is a seat at the Round Table, reserved by Merlin for the knight destined to retrieve the Holy Grail. It was said to be fatal to any unworthy person who sat in it.

Pandora's Box is a legendary box (originally a jar) containing all the miseries of the world; when Pandora opened it, these curses were unleashed. It has come to represent any action that results in numerous problems.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[Cueball and Megan stand in a room. At one wall a sword hangs by a thread above a chair. On another wall a rifle is fastened to a board. Meghan has one arm stretched towards the rifle.]
:Cueball: Yeah, I think the sword of Damocles looks nice hanging over the Siege Perilous.
:Cueball: Hey, don’t touch Chekhov’s gun!

:[Caption below panel:]
:My home decorating theme is "ominous metaphorical objects."

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Fiction]]

2642: Meta-Alternating Current

2022-10-28T02:34:29Z

172.70.90.173: Undo revision 297715 by 172.70.211.146 (talk) Title text does not belong in the image transcript. (Can't argue about the completeness, but I'm reverting so there's scope for a revisit.)

{{comic
| number = 2642
| date = July 6, 2022
| title = Meta-Alternating Current
| image = meta_alternating_current.png
| titletext = It's always bothered me that you can't cancel out an inverter by putting a second inverter after it.
}}

==Explanation==
This is another one of Randall's [[:Category:Cursed Connectors|Cursed Connectors]] comics.

{{w|Direct current}} is a unidirectional flow of electrons from a power source to something being powered, through one or more conductors, before returning to the power source via one or more other conductors, thus completing the circuit. Batteries produce direct current. It is commonly used in electronics applications, including computers. {{w|Alternating current}}, on the other hand, frequently reverses the direction of electron flow, and is commonly used for longer-distance transmission (such as from the power plant to an outlet).

This comic proposes a humorous ''Meta-Alternating Current'', which uses a series of adapters to "alternate" between DC and AC current along the length of a connector. This is absurd in part because typical {{w|power inverter}} efficiency is 90%, and maximum {{w|bridge rectifier}} efficiency is about 99% for 120 V,{{citation needed}} so an {{w|extension cord}} made of in this manner would lose about 10% power per such pair.

The title text bemoans that an inverter, which converts direct current to alternating current, does not work in the other direction, as a layman's interpretation of the word "inverter" might assume. Rather, a separate device, a {{w|rectifier}}, also pictured in the comic, must be used for this second conversion. (However, a similar circuit to an inverter may be used to rectify in a process called {{w|active rectification}}.)

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:Cursed Connectors #120

:[Drawing of a chain of rectifiers and inverters. There are seven pairs of rectifiers/inverters. The chain starts on the left with a mains plug (type B), followed by the first rectifier. It ends with the last inverter, and a female mains plug (type B socket).]

:[They are also labelled, by means of the words "rectifiers" and "inverters" with arrows drawn pointing to a few of each. Per the labels, the inverters are the big chunky ones, and the rectifiers are the smaller ones.]

:Meta-alternating current extension cord
:(alternates between AC and DC)

==Trivia==
This comic replaced [[No One Was Hurt]] as comic 2642 after it was taken down from [[xkcd]]'s website.

This comic initially did not have a high-resolution (2x) image for high-DPI displays, making it look more blurry than usual on such devices (such as smartphones). This was probably because it was uploaded hastily to replace No One Was Hurt quickly. It has since been updated to include a high-resolution version.

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Cursed Connectors]]

Talk:2684: Road Space Comparison

2022-10-25T20:19:34Z

172.70.90.173:

Hold on, I'm trying to concoct an interesting 30 goats/20 cabbages/10 wolves problem... [[User:GreatWyrmGold|GreatWyrmGold]] ([[User talk:GreatWyrmGold|talk]]) 20:53, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
S3C0ND P0ST [[Special:Contributions/172.71.150.131|172.71.150.131]] 21:12, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

You have no idea how many car-centric infrastructure arguments happen in my discord servers, this is a fantastic comic to post for that[[Special:Contributions/188.114.102.55|188.114.102.55]] 21:23, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

What if the last panel also references other river crossing puzzles like the "Missionaries and cannibals problem" or the Flash "Japanese River Crossing" puzzle so you have extra rules for each member of each species? [[Special:Contributions/172.71.98.97|172.71.98.97]] 22:11, 12 October 2022 (UTC) Alex

My name is GreyFox, and I added the transcript for this page. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.150.171|172.71.150.171]] 22:13, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
:Aww, they removed my table! [[1450|I liked that table.]] --[[Special:Contributions/172.71.146.65|172.71.146.65]] 21:39, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

So [[1035|the takeway is]]... we can put humans in hamster balls by the handful all season and feel no worse about it than about cars driving down the road? This is awesome! [[Special:Contributions/162.158.2.215|162.158.2.215]] 22:20, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
:No, unfortunately the comic is missleading! Even though it is labelled as 50 hamsterballs the image only shows 39! [[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]])
::The comic never said it was one person per hamsterball. There's plenty of space in those for the hamster equivalent of a sidecar. [[User:GreatWyrmGold|GreatWyrmGold]] ([[User talk:GreatWyrmGold|talk]]) 05:30, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
:::But the image shows only one shioulette per hamsterball. I assume this picture is intentionally misleading and Randall was payd by the hamsterball-industry in order to manipulate society towards being pro hamster-ball [[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]])
:::::Eleven of the silhouettes could be of people wearing an occupied baby-carrier. The varieties of the silhouettes could allow it without requiring finer detail. [[User:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For|These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For]] ([[User talk:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For|talk]]) 02:06, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
::::Regarding the hamster wheels: I think the description is missing a reference to sphere packing. It’s the first thing I thought of when I saw panel 8: how many circles/spheres can you fit/pack into a given space is a famous mathematical problem that I believe Randall has played with before. [[Special:Contributions/75.174.26.242 |75.174.26.242]]13:14UTC, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Saw this one recently, can't be a coincidence [https://files.fietsersbond.nl/app/uploads/2011/07/18104628/enfb_ruimtegebruik.jpg NL Fietsersbond Ruimtegebruik] [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.105|108.162.221.105]] 22:25, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

:No, it can not. --[[Special:Contributions/172.71.142.39|172.71.142.39]] 16:13, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

I'm a bit unsure about the linked "52 person tandem" (also, the way it is currently made a bottom-of-page reference link, which we avoid on this site). It took me a while (behind all the popups the referenced link gave me, typically) to realise the only picture of it was the miniscule thumbnail planted at the start. Which explained the anomolous wheel-count, if I understand the low-res image correctly. I would dispute Ripleys'/Guiness's acceptance of that thing as a 'tandem'. It is clearly a multi-stage {{w|Trailer bike|Rann Trailer}}-style construction (possibly with individual tandem-'trailers' in there to get the wheel count down to ''no more'' than the rider-count). Also, how on earth would a linked line of trailers actually start bursting tyres? The load of riders plus frames would spread out about as evenly as for any given single occupant bike (certainly less than the forces on the wheels of a proper tandem/trandem, or even a tandem-trike!), so I'm not sure how they even buckled a wheel. So I'd like to know what the longest two-/three-wheel tandem is (and certainly how anything like Randall's slightly snaking frame does not buckle), if anybody has their finger on that rather more relevent information, rather than that faux-tandem. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.137|172.71.178.137]] 03:03, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Is it just me, or is the last block also a subtle dig at Putin's blown-up Kerch bridge? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.175.146|172.70.175.146]] 12:22, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
:then it would be 50 people with 30 sleeping bags, 20 guns and 10 medikits :) [[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]])

Intrinsic problems to the multi-human/goat/cabbage/wolf riddle:

- How many generic objects can you take at once? (If you can take 110+, there is no riddle here)

- How many goats can one person transport at once? (Can you put 30 goats on a boat without pandemonium?)

- How many people are required to corral the goats? (Will the goats all run away when they get to the other side?)

- Are the humans able to catch the goats? And, if the humans *can* catch the goats, does that mean the wolves can, too?

- Is there a way to restrain the wolves?

- Can a wolf be lonely?--[[User:Cwallenpoole|Cwallenpoole]] ([[User talk:Cwallenpoole|talk]]) 13:23, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
:"Can you put 30 goats on a boat without pandemonium?" - nicely done. :o)[[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.147|172.70.162.147]] 13:51, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

: If one person only is needed to "corral" 30 Goats/Wolves/Cabbages, then the problem is moot - the first boat ride just leaves a human on the other side of the water to watch over whatever is brought
[[Special:Contributions/172.70.230.105|172.70.230.105]] 14:20, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

I suppose instead of being critical numbers it has to be done with critical ratios. Gives you a little more wiggle room in the ordering of the trips and optimization but would read basically as the solution to the original but 25 times in a row. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.241.51|108.162.241.51]]

*raises eyebrows at the suggestion that a 50-person tandem is only impractical in a city...*[[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.147|172.70.162.147]] 13:52, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

The multiseater 'bike' drawing is off, for me. A tandem (including trandem, quad, quint, etc) tends to root the stoker's(/subsequent stokers') handlebars directly under the seat of the rider in front of them (steersman/intermediate stokers) in any decent scratch-built frame, not well behind the seated body (and presmably a head/hat of each person, seated upright). It's closer in longitudinal scale to what you get of an overhead view of a [https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/campaigns-guide/guide-tag-longs-trailer-bikes compound bike] with handlebars on or just behind the towing-point (though now it looks a little too close, practically, as there might not be room between the bottom-bracket/down-tube/head-tube to clear the rear wheel of the bike-rear in front of them... if not {{w|Moulton Bicycle|Moulton-sized}} units, which causes other building problems). Which also perhaps accounts for the slightly snaking plan view, being articulated. If well constructed with the right attachment geometries, this could actually travel city streets quite well by ensuring the wheel track of each compound unit follows the path of the weaving wheel(s) ahead of them. Although it'd need practiced riders to prevent lateral oscilations causing rolling forces to drag the whole thing sideways down to hit the ground. But I'll forgive Randall, as he clearly doesn't have enough practical experience with bike/tandem construction. Anyway, as the original '52 seat tandem bicycle' link was not a tandem (nor a bicycle) I looked up what I ''think'' is the correct most-seated tandem (tried checking Guiness Book Of Records website, just in case, but its cookie-authorisation popovers made it impossible to read) and added that as well as caveating the existing presumption of tandemness for the drawing and the already suggested machine. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.5|172.71.178.5]] 18:54, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

There used to be a lot of videos on YouTube with rigid human-sized hamster balls, but the only ones I can find are the flexible inflatables now, and all the stunts seem to be with concentric inner compartment inside a shock-absorbed outer core. Wasn't there some horrible injury in the news some years back? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.34.54|172.69.34.54]] 08:30, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

The “one giant pulled by many smalls” thing has been done by Märklin (manufacturer of H0-scale locomotives). 200 H0-scale locomotives pulled one real passenger wagon. Of course, similar stuff has been done by other groups. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.191|162.158.90.191]] 13:51, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Note that, as the author of [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2684:_Road_Space_Comparison&diff=prev&oldid=296876 this removed statement], I can absolutely tell that other editor that it was not written as an anti-bicycle statement, but ''as'' a cyclist. Not worth reinstating, but the image given clearly goes against both my own and the [https://www.cyclinguk.org/blog/why-highway-code-should-protect-riding-two-abreast generally] [https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/campaigning/article/20220127-Highway-Code-%E2%80%93-Riding-two-abreast-0 accepted] [https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/rules-for-cyclists-59-to-82 official rules] in my location. It does annoy motorists (and pedestrians; and me, in whatever capacity I am currently journeying) when ill-informed/uncaring/provocative people on bikes flout those rules, and then makes it worse for those who obey the rules (ride abreast, at any given time, because it would never be safer for a motorist to pass a vastly longer single-file group; or simply to ride on the road, as is both our right and responsibility). Not knowing how the rules and regs work outside the UK (but assuming that the practical conventions are similar, where not totally over-regulated out of existence) I had wanted to just say that a 'peleton group' like that is not good practice on the open-road.
 And, obviously, there are exceptional circumstances (if not rules being bent) if we see human-hamsterballs, cars stacked atop other vehicles, stradle-driving and insisting on taking wolves(/etc) through a flooded section of road, which may or may not be 'open' in any real sense, especially to other forms of traffic... But I'm a lot more familiar with the cycling issue, so I added that ''pro-''cycling bit of advice. Not that it will improve matters, or significantly add to understanding, but it made me feel a tiny bit better at the time, and so thanks for reading. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.48|172.70.86.48]] 10:07, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
: Bias may not have been intended, but that doesn't mean that (socialised and internalised) bias wasn't present. It's a common misconception, but there are no rules against riding abreast or in groups in the UK, and it's often recognised that it can be safer for cyclists to do so. Where there are such rules, they are anti-cycling rules, designed to move cyclists over out of the way of the supposedly more important motor traffic. Motorists aren't annoyed by the cyclists, per se - they're annoyed because their perceived superiority as road users is challenged by having to wait behind. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.225|172.70.85.225]] 13:17, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
:: This does not contradict the statement that riding excessively abreast (i.e. across multiple lanes) does no favours to the cycling community (my community). As an act of protest, you may be able to do many things that aren't technically illegal but for which annoyance of others is going to be a self-defeating activity if you want those in the wrong (misinformed motorists, especially) to learn and understand and appreciate.
:: The recent resurgent demand for "bicycle licence plates", unworkable as it is, arose not just from people doing outright illegal things (like using pavements, junping lights, reckless riding in general) but also being inconsiderate..
:: I'm involved in cycle-sport, racing on the road, and the right to do this has been historically retained (and actually engrained in law) against a background of anti-cycling opinion, and I would like this to continue. It is not just the ignorant outsider, who maybe I could enlighten and get on side (as if there's any hope of that), but also those participants (or non-participants who nevertheless are seen as the same in the eyes of the outsider) who bring the sport into disrepute by not obeying the Highway Code, etc.
:: And group-riding in a peleton fashion (without being ''in'' a peleton, anyway, the management of which I leave to those responsible for mass-start races who are additionally already required to get police permission/road-closures arranged) doesn't make a safer environment and doesn't help the (rightful) acceptance of cycling by those who observe such apparent chaos. It's bad enough with the perfectly legal two-abreast group riding which, as you say and which I obviously know perfectly well, is also often the safest option.
:: The perceived superiority of motorists vs others (or indeed others vs everyone else, as a pedestrian I've been verbally abused/threatened by pavement-riders!) is a problem which doesn't get fixed by thoughtlessness, hot-headedness or basic impetuosity. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.203.42|162.158.203.42]] 19:35, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
::: The bias comes in, though, when you only comment on the behaviour and supposed inconsiderateness of the cyclists in the comic, and not on that of the other road users depicted. The 'peleton' of cars in panel 4 is actually far more likely to be encountered in urban areas, can be equally a catalyst for frustration and annoyance for other road users who are obstructed by it (in this case, often cyclists), and likely involves a lot of thoughtlessness and inconsiderateness in that drivers have chosen to make unnecessary journeys by car. But no-one comments on that (suggesting that they should break up into smaller groups to make it easier for other road users to negotiate around them, for example), because of the ingrained societal bias that cars on the road are 'normal', whereas bicycles are an aberration, and should get out of the way of 'proper traffic'.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.58|172.70.91.58]] 08:41, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
:::: Maybe if they could act like proper traffic, they wouldn't be seen as a meanace or problem as opposed to 'normal' traffic. I can't even count with all 20 fingers in my body the amount of times a bike rider almost crashed into me just this past year alone because they've got it into their heads they get to use roads, but don't have to follow traffic lights like everyone else and are exempt from keeping an eye our for pedestrians or other traffic. --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.110.205|141.101.110.205]] 15:08, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
::::: Driving just yesterday: other cars exceeding the speed limit; the same cars (or those from the other direction) overtaking and having to cut back in because of opposing traffic/myself; has that light changed to red..? - never mind, continue through; well, you're using your indicators on the traffic island but you're signalling your exit ''way'' too early/late and might as well not have bothered; never mind those lane markings, you can cut across/straddle however you like; car parks... the second frame of [[562: Parking|this]] happened (but not the rest, unfortunately). Cyclists on the road, less problem than the horses ridden on the road (not an issue, I held behind) or encountering vehicles on narrow lanes where I needed to use passing places/the verge to allow us to pass each other).
::::: Bike riders can be bad road users, but they're probably the same people who are bad road users when driving cars, or the uneducated young (there ''used'' to be {{w|Cycling Proficiency Test|some regular tuition at schools}}, or at least your family could teach you how to be both safe and sane on the road!)...
::::: I'd be very happy if all bike riders were proper cyclists and road users - I'm actually not that happy with most "cycle paths" created as a sop to both road-wary bike users and cycle-unfriendly motorists). But while I will acknowledge that there's problem people on two wheels, I don't accept the premise that cyclists are intrinsically a problem, just the idiots of all kinds who don't do themselves or anyone else any favours. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.173|172.70.90.173]] 20:16, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Talk:2684: Road Space Comparison

2022-10-25T20:16:57Z

172.70.90.173:

Hold on, I'm trying to concoct an interesting 30 goats/20 cabbages/10 wolves problem... [[User:GreatWyrmGold|GreatWyrmGold]] ([[User talk:GreatWyrmGold|talk]]) 20:53, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
S3C0ND P0ST [[Special:Contributions/172.71.150.131|172.71.150.131]] 21:12, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

You have no idea how many car-centric infrastructure arguments happen in my discord servers, this is a fantastic comic to post for that[[Special:Contributions/188.114.102.55|188.114.102.55]] 21:23, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

What if the last panel also references other river crossing puzzles like the "Missionaries and cannibals problem" or the Flash "Japanese River Crossing" puzzle so you have extra rules for each member of each species? [[Special:Contributions/172.71.98.97|172.71.98.97]] 22:11, 12 October 2022 (UTC) Alex

My name is GreyFox, and I added the transcript for this page. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.150.171|172.71.150.171]] 22:13, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
:Aww, they removed my table! [[1450|I liked that table.]] --[[Special:Contributions/172.71.146.65|172.71.146.65]] 21:39, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

So [[1035|the takeway is]]... we can put humans in hamster balls by the handful all season and feel no worse about it than about cars driving down the road? This is awesome! [[Special:Contributions/162.158.2.215|162.158.2.215]] 22:20, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
:No, unfortunately the comic is missleading! Even though it is labelled as 50 hamsterballs the image only shows 39! [[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]])
::The comic never said it was one person per hamsterball. There's plenty of space in those for the hamster equivalent of a sidecar. [[User:GreatWyrmGold|GreatWyrmGold]] ([[User talk:GreatWyrmGold|talk]]) 05:30, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
:::But the image shows only one shioulette per hamsterball. I assume this picture is intentionally misleading and Randall was payd by the hamsterball-industry in order to manipulate society towards being pro hamster-ball [[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]])
:::::Eleven of the silhouettes could be of people wearing an occupied baby-carrier. The varieties of the silhouettes could allow it without requiring finer detail. [[User:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For|These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For]] ([[User talk:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For|talk]]) 02:06, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
::::Regarding the hamster wheels: I think the description is missing a reference to sphere packing. It’s the first thing I thought of when I saw panel 8: how many circles/spheres can you fit/pack into a given space is a famous mathematical problem that I believe Randall has played with before. [[Special:Contributions/75.174.26.242 |75.174.26.242]]13:14UTC, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Saw this one recently, can't be a coincidence [https://files.fietsersbond.nl/app/uploads/2011/07/18104628/enfb_ruimtegebruik.jpg NL Fietsersbond Ruimtegebruik] [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.105|108.162.221.105]] 22:25, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

:No, it can not. --[[Special:Contributions/172.71.142.39|172.71.142.39]] 16:13, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

I'm a bit unsure about the linked "52 person tandem" (also, the way it is currently made a bottom-of-page reference link, which we avoid on this site). It took me a while (behind all the popups the referenced link gave me, typically) to realise the only picture of it was the miniscule thumbnail planted at the start. Which explained the anomolous wheel-count, if I understand the low-res image correctly. I would dispute Ripleys'/Guiness's acceptance of that thing as a 'tandem'. It is clearly a multi-stage {{w|Trailer bike|Rann Trailer}}-style construction (possibly with individual tandem-'trailers' in there to get the wheel count down to ''no more'' than the rider-count). Also, how on earth would a linked line of trailers actually start bursting tyres? The load of riders plus frames would spread out about as evenly as for any given single occupant bike (certainly less than the forces on the wheels of a proper tandem/trandem, or even a tandem-trike!), so I'm not sure how they even buckled a wheel. So I'd like to know what the longest two-/three-wheel tandem is (and certainly how anything like Randall's slightly snaking frame does not buckle), if anybody has their finger on that rather more relevent information, rather than that faux-tandem. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.137|172.71.178.137]] 03:03, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Is it just me, or is the last block also a subtle dig at Putin's blown-up Kerch bridge? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.175.146|172.70.175.146]] 12:22, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
:then it would be 50 people with 30 sleeping bags, 20 guns and 10 medikits :) [[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]])

Intrinsic problems to the multi-human/goat/cabbage/wolf riddle:

- How many generic objects can you take at once? (If you can take 110+, there is no riddle here)

- How many goats can one person transport at once? (Can you put 30 goats on a boat without pandemonium?)

- How many people are required to corral the goats? (Will the goats all run away when they get to the other side?)

- Are the humans able to catch the goats? And, if the humans *can* catch the goats, does that mean the wolves can, too?

- Is there a way to restrain the wolves?

- Can a wolf be lonely?--[[User:Cwallenpoole|Cwallenpoole]] ([[User talk:Cwallenpoole|talk]]) 13:23, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
:"Can you put 30 goats on a boat without pandemonium?" - nicely done. :o)[[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.147|172.70.162.147]] 13:51, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

: If one person only is needed to "corral" 30 Goats/Wolves/Cabbages, then the problem is moot - the first boat ride just leaves a human on the other side of the water to watch over whatever is brought
[[Special:Contributions/172.70.230.105|172.70.230.105]] 14:20, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

I suppose instead of being critical numbers it has to be done with critical ratios. Gives you a little more wiggle room in the ordering of the trips and optimization but would read basically as the solution to the original but 25 times in a row. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.241.51|108.162.241.51]]

*raises eyebrows at the suggestion that a 50-person tandem is only impractical in a city...*[[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.147|172.70.162.147]] 13:52, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

The multiseater 'bike' drawing is off, for me. A tandem (including trandem, quad, quint, etc) tends to root the stoker's(/subsequent stokers') handlebars directly under the seat of the rider in front of them (steersman/intermediate stokers) in any decent scratch-built frame, not well behind the seated body (and presmably a head/hat of each person, seated upright). It's closer in longitudinal scale to what you get of an overhead view of a [https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/campaigns-guide/guide-tag-longs-trailer-bikes compound bike] with handlebars on or just behind the towing-point (though now it looks a little too close, practically, as there might not be room between the bottom-bracket/down-tube/head-tube to clear the rear wheel of the bike-rear in front of them... if not {{w|Moulton Bicycle|Moulton-sized}} units, which causes other building problems). Which also perhaps accounts for the slightly snaking plan view, being articulated. If well constructed with the right attachment geometries, this could actually travel city streets quite well by ensuring the wheel track of each compound unit follows the path of the weaving wheel(s) ahead of them. Although it'd need practiced riders to prevent lateral oscilations causing rolling forces to drag the whole thing sideways down to hit the ground. But I'll forgive Randall, as he clearly doesn't have enough practical experience with bike/tandem construction. Anyway, as the original '52 seat tandem bicycle' link was not a tandem (nor a bicycle) I looked up what I ''think'' is the correct most-seated tandem (tried checking Guiness Book Of Records website, just in case, but its cookie-authorisation popovers made it impossible to read) and added that as well as caveating the existing presumption of tandemness for the drawing and the already suggested machine. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.5|172.71.178.5]] 18:54, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

There used to be a lot of videos on YouTube with rigid human-sized hamster balls, but the only ones I can find are the flexible inflatables now, and all the stunts seem to be with concentric inner compartment inside a shock-absorbed outer core. Wasn't there some horrible injury in the news some years back? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.34.54|172.69.34.54]] 08:30, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

The “one giant pulled by many smalls” thing has been done by Märklin (manufacturer of H0-scale locomotives). 200 H0-scale locomotives pulled one real passenger wagon. Of course, similar stuff has been done by other groups. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.191|162.158.90.191]] 13:51, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Note that, as the author of [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2684:_Road_Space_Comparison&diff=prev&oldid=296876 this removed statement], I can absolutely tell that other editor that it was not written as an anti-bicycle statement, but ''as'' a cyclist. Not worth reinstating, but the image given clearly goes against both my own and the [https://www.cyclinguk.org/blog/why-highway-code-should-protect-riding-two-abreast generally] [https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/campaigning/article/20220127-Highway-Code-%E2%80%93-Riding-two-abreast-0 accepted] [https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/rules-for-cyclists-59-to-82 official rules] in my location. It does annoy motorists (and pedestrians; and me, in whatever capacity I am currently journeying) when ill-informed/uncaring/provocative people on bikes flout those rules, and then makes it worse for those who obey the rules (ride abreast, at any given time, because it would never be safer for a motorist to pass a vastly longer single-file group; or simply to ride on the road, as is both our right and responsibility). Not knowing how the rules and regs work outside the UK (but assuming that the practical conventions are similar, where not totally over-regulated out of existence) I had wanted to just say that a 'peleton group' like that is not good practice on the open-road.
 And, obviously, there are exceptional circumstances (if not rules being bent) if we see human-hamsterballs, cars stacked atop other vehicles, stradle-driving and insisting on taking wolves(/etc) through a flooded section of road, which may or may not be 'open' in any real sense, especially to other forms of traffic... But I'm a lot more familiar with the cycling issue, so I added that ''pro-''cycling bit of advice. Not that it will improve matters, or significantly add to understanding, but it made me feel a tiny bit better at the time, and so thanks for reading. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.48|172.70.86.48]] 10:07, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
: Bias may not have been intended, but that doesn't mean that (socialised and internalised) bias wasn't present. It's a common misconception, but there are no rules against riding abreast or in groups in the UK, and it's often recognised that it can be safer for cyclists to do so. Where there are such rules, they are anti-cycling rules, designed to move cyclists over out of the way of the supposedly more important motor traffic. Motorists aren't annoyed by the cyclists, per se - they're annoyed because their perceived superiority as road users is challenged by having to wait behind. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.225|172.70.85.225]] 13:17, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
:: This does not contradict the statement that riding excessively abreast (i.e. across multiple lanes) does no favours to the cycling community (my community). As an act of protest, you may be able to do many things that aren't technically illegal but for which annoyance of others is going to be a self-defeating activity if you want those in the wrong (misinformed motorists, especially) to learn and understand and appreciate.
:: The recent resurgent demand for "bicycle licence plates", unworkable as it is, arose not just from people doing outright illegal things (like using pavements, junping lights, reckless riding in general) but also being inconsiderate..
:: I'm involved in cycle-sport, racing on the road, and the right to do this has been historically retained (and actually engrained in law) against a background of anti-cycling opinion, and I would like this to continue. It is not just the ignorant outsider, who maybe I could enlighten and get on side (as if there's any hope of that), but also those participants (or non-participants who nevertheless are seen as the same in the eyes of the outsider) who bring the sport into disrepute by not obeying the Highway Code, etc.
:: And group-riding in a peleton fashion (without being ''in'' a peleton, anyway, the management of which I leave to those responsible for mass-start races who are additionally already required to get police permission/road-closures arranged) doesn't make a safer environment and doesn't help the (rightful) acceptance of cycling by those who observe such apparent chaos. It's bad enough with the perfectly legal two-abreast group riding which, as you say and which I obviously know perfectly well, is also often the safest option.
:: The perceived superiority of motorists vs others (or indeed others vs everyone else, as a pedestrian I've been verbally abused/threatened by pavement-riders!) is a problem which doesn't get fixed by thoughtlessness, hot-headedness or basic impetuosity. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.203.42|162.158.203.42]] 19:35, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
::: The bias comes in, though, when you only comment on the behaviour and supposed inconsiderateness of the cyclists in the comic, and not on that of the other road users depicted. The 'peleton' of cars in panel 4 is actually far more likely to be encountered in urban areas, can be equally a catalyst for frustration and annoyance for other road users who are obstructed by it (in this case, often cyclists), and likely involves a lot of thoughtlessness and inconsiderateness in that drivers have chosen to make unnecessary journeys by car. But no-one comments on that (suggesting that they should break up into smaller groups to make it easier for other road users to negotiate around them, for example), because of the ingrained societal bias that cars on the road are 'normal', whereas bicycles are an aberration, and should get out of the way of 'proper traffic'.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.58|172.70.91.58]] 08:41, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
:::: Maybe if they could act like proper traffic, they wouldn't be seen as a meanace or problem as opposed to 'normal' traffic. I can't even count with all 20 fingers in my body the amount of times a bike rider almost crashed into me just this past year alone because they've got it into their heads they get to use roads, but don't have to follow traffic lights like everyone else and are exempt from keeping an eye our for pedestrians or other traffic. --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.110.205|141.101.110.205]] 15:08, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
::::: Driving just yesterday: other cars exceeding the speed limit; the same cars (or those from the other direction) overtaking and having to cut back in because of opposing traffic/myself; has that light changed to red..? - never mind, continue through; well, you're using your indicators on the traffic island but you're signalling your exit ''way'' too early/late and might as well not have bothered; never mind those lane markings, you can cut across/straddle however you like; car parks... the second frame of [[562: Parking|this]] happened (but not the rest, unfortunately). Cyclists on the road, less problem than the horses ridden on the road (not an issue, I held behind) or encountering vehicles on narrow lanes where I needed to use passing places/the verge to allow us to pass each other).
::::: Bike riders can be bad road users, but they're probably the same people who are bad road users when driving cars, or the uneducated young (there ''used'' to be {{w|Cycling Proficiency Test|some regular tuition at schools}}, or at least your family could teach you how to be both safe and sane on the road!)...
::::: I'd be very happy if all nike riders were proper cyclists and road users - I'm actually not that happy with most "cycle paths" created as a sop to both road-wary bike users and cycle-unfriendly motorists). But while I will acknowledge that there's problem people on two wheels, I don't accept the premise that cyclists are intrinsically a problem, just the idiots of all kinds who don't do themselves or anyone else any favours. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.173|172.70.90.173]] 20:16, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

263: Certainty

2022-10-19T18:05:39Z

172.70.90.173: /* Transcript */ While edits are being made, might as well make this more accurate vis-a-vis the "Award".

{{comic
| number = 263
| date = May 18, 2007
| title = Certainty
| image = certainty.png
| titletext = a(b+c)=(ab)+(ac). Politicize that, bitches.
}}

==Explanation==
[[Megan]] and [[Cueball]] are teachers in this comic, talking about their students and the political discussions with them. They outline that it's not possible to find the real truth. But then Cueball, interrupted by a harrumph of the mathematics teacher [[Miss Lenhart]], states that Mathematics is an exception (because math can actually be ''proved'', conclusively). [[Randall]] likes mathematics because mathematical political discussions are not possible.

The title text shows a simple valid mathematical equation, the {{w|distributive property}}, and Randall is daring one to politicize it. Though this happened years after the comic was published, [http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/01/11/1178129/-Schools-spreading-socialism-by-teaching-the-distributive-property| people have in fact politicized the distributive property], claiming that teaching it promoted socialism.

==Transcript==
:[A door seen from a hallway, with "Teachers' Lounge" on the glass. Next to the door, a framed "Award" certificate is displayed. Silhouetted through the glass, two teachers can be seen talking.]
:Megan: My students drew me into another political argument.
:Cueball: Eh; it happens.
:Megan: Lately, political debates bother me. They just show how good smart people are at rationalizing.
:[Internal view of the room. The two teachers, Megan and Cueball, continue talking. Megan has her arms raised. Miss Lenhart is seen reading a book on a sofa.]
:Megan: The world is so complicated - the more I learn, the less clear anything gets. There are too many ideas and arguments to pick and choose from. How can I trust myself to know the truth about anything?
:Megan: And if everything I know is so shaky, what on Earth am I doing teaching?

:[Megan and Cueball continue talking. Cueball has his hand raised. Miss Lenhart has looked up from her book.]
:Cueball: I guess you just do your best. No one can impart perfect universal truths to their students.
:Miss Lenhart: *ahem*
:Cueball: ...Except math teachers.
:Miss Lenhart: Thank you.

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Comics featuring Miss Lenhart]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Math]]

1976: Friendly Questions

2022-10-16T12:55:51Z

172.70.90.173: Nou win.

{{comic
| number = 1976
| date = April 4, 2018
| title = Friendly Questions
| image = friendly_questions.png
| titletext = Just tell me everything you're thinking about in order from most important to last, and then we'll be friends and we can eat apples together.
}}

==Explanation==
A common theme in xkcd is [[:Category:Social interactions|social awkwardness]]. Oftentimes [[Cueball]]/[[Randall]] will grossly overthink casual social interactions, such as small talk.

In this comic, Cueball has prepared a note to himself, preparing for the said small talk with [[Hairy]], but it ultimately backfires. This is very similar to the comic [[1961: Interaction]] which came out just 5 weeks before this one. And a similar interaction between Cueball and Hairy occurs in [[1917: How to Make Friends]] from less than half a year before this comic.

In this comic, Cueball has prepared for a conversation with Hairy, by writing an instructional note for himself. The note tells him to start the conversation by asking some questions about the other person. In theory, this is perfectly good conversational advice; unfortunately, Cueball's understanding of social interactions is so abstract that he actually has no idea ''what'' questions to ask. He hastily improvises a question about the number of apples Hairy has eaten in his lifetime, which, although it does meet the criteria suggested by the note, is not a particularly interesting or meaningful question to ask someone. Cueball realizes from Hairy's reaction that he has made a mistake, and decides to abort the interaction.

Normally, one would ask questions such as "How are you?" or "What have you been up to lately?", instead of asking random facts of someone else's life, such as "How many apples have you eaten in your life?"{{Citation needed}}

The title text continues to show the flaws in Cueball's approach to social interaction, which is very systematic: he seems to trying to create some kind of reproducible methodology that he can follow in order to carry out a conversation, unaware that conversations tend to be spontaneous and do not follow rigidly defined rules. Additionally, one of the main points of conversation is to gain some understanding of the other person; by focusing on the conversation ''itself'', Cueball is denying the very purpose of the interaction.

A slight side-joke is the list being numbered despite only containing one item, although this could imply that Cueball has other notes that he would have continued to refer to if the first one produced a successful result.

The advice to "Ask them about themselves", specifically noted as the "first thing" after introducing yourself, was promoted to overcome society anxiety in the {{w|Periscope}}-based videocast of {{w|Scott Adams}}, creator of the ''{{w|Dilbert}}'' comic strip (see audio-only podcast [http://blog.dilbert.com/2018/04/04/episode-12-youtube-shooter-amazon-com-trade-war-and-overcoming-social-anxiety/]). Given Randall's personality and previous professional vocation (working with nerds at {{w|NASA}} and in academia), it is highly likely he would be a fan of the strip and also the creator's related works such as Adams's blog, Twitter feed, and the like. The real coincidence is the videocast in question likely occurred ''just a day before this comic was published''; the audio was published the same day as the comic and usually delays the video by a day.

==Transcript==
:[Cueball and Hairy meet each other.]
:Cueball: Hey!
:Hairy: Oh, hi!

:[Cueball looks down at a sticky note in his hand.]

:[The yellow sticky note reads:]
:Normal human conversation
:<hr width="150" style="background-color:black" align="left">
:1. Ask them about themselves

:[Cueball looks at Hairy.]
:Cueball: How many...apples...have you eaten?
:Hairy: ...Like, in my life?
:Cueball: Yes.
:Hairy: ...
:Cueball: ...I should go.
:Hairy: OK.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics with color]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Hairy]]
[[Category:Social interactions]]

2684: Road Space Comparison

2022-10-13T02:42:27Z

172.70.90.173: /* Explanation */ Car chirality

{{comic
| number = 2684
| date = October 12, 2022
| title = Road Space Comparison
| image = road_space_comparison_2x.png
| imagesize = 740x1157px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = I wonder how hard it would be to ride an electric scooter in a hamster ball.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a CHAD WALKABLE CITIES ENJOYER - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
The comic is a parody of a common comparison done in arguments for walkable cities - the amount of usable space taken up by cars and car-centric infrastructure that could be eliminated for other useful public amenities. The first of these may be from 1978[https://www.fietsersbond.nl/nieuws/van-wie-is-de-ruimte/].

The first 4 images are common, real-life comparisons involving people walking, people on bicycles, public transport and cars, which distinctly show how that the alternatives to cars take up significantly less space than cars do for the same number of people. However, from this point the comic becomes more and more absurd in its comparisons.

The 5th one shows 50 people on a tandem cycle. This would obviously be impractical in a city due to the tandem's sheer length and would not be able to work with fewer people due to its sheer mass. The longest tandem bicycle holds 52 people<ref>https://www.active.com/articles/bicycle-built-for-52-pedals-into-guinness-book</ref>.

The 6th one involves 20 people driving 40 cars, with each person driving 2 cars at a time by straddling them in the middle. Besides being unwieldy and impractical, it would also be extremely dangerous as the cars could go out of control at any time. Perhaps the cars would be a paired mix of left-hand-drive and right-hand-drive models, although with enough push-rods/levers (to also reach the traditional foot controls, and also gearsticks unless ''fully'' automatic) this might not be as important.

The 7th one has 30 cars riding on 6 buses by stacking them on top of each other. Assuming the same people-per-car/bus from the earlier examples, this arrangement would have about 345 people riding on the same road! In addition, people getting out of the cars when they reach their destination would be a problem for most cars in this arrangement due to them being stacked under other cars or surrounded by them.

The 8th panel has 50 people in hamster balls. Randall has shown his interest in human sized [[:Category:Hamster Ball|hamster ball]] transportation before, and indeed this would be an enjoyable way to traverse a road, provided no other hamster balls try to drive into you and knock you off the road.

The 9th panel has 40 tiny cars pulling a big one. Such feats of strengths are a common sight while setting world records, so maybe this is a world record attempt by the cars in question. It is unknown how many people fit in the big car.

The 10th panel is a 50 person variation on the classic {{w|wolf, goat and cabbage problem}}, which has also been [[2348: Boat Puzzle|referenced before]] by Randall, except this one involves 30 goats, 20 cabbages and 10 wolves trying to cross the now-flooded road with a single boat. It is not known how many people (or cabbages for that matter) the boat fits, but since humans significantly outnumber the goats, cabbages and wolves, it doesn't seem like too much of a problem.

The title text proposes a problem related to another alternative form of transport - the electric scooter. Randall wonders how well an electric scooter would function when run inside the hamster ball. This would probably function like a {{w|monowheel}} of sorts.

==Transcript==
[A picture of many traffic scenarios are shown, with the last one being part of a river with road on either side.]
{|class="wikitable" style="marginauto"
|+Road space comparision
|-
!50 people walking!!50 people riding bikes!!50 people riding a bus!!50 people in 33 cars!!50 people on one tandem bicycle
|-
|[A picture of 50 people walking on the left lane of a road.]||[A picture of 50 bicycles with people on them on the left lane of a road.]||[A picture of a single bus.]||[A picture of 33 cars filling the road.]||[A picture of 50 people on one long tandem bicycle.]
|-
!20 people driving 40 cars!!30 cars riding on 6 buses!!50 people in human-sized hamster balls!!One giant car pulled by 40 smaller ones!!50 people with 30 goats, 20 cabbages, and 10 wolves
|-
|[A picture of 40 cars with 20 people between them with one leg in each side window.]||[A picture of 30 cars stacked as to fit on 6 buses.]||[50 hamster balls, each containing a person.]||[A large car connected to 40 normal cars by rope.]||[A picture of a road separated by a river. In said river is a dock and boat, and on the side closest to us are 50 people, 30 goats, 20 cabbages, and 10 wolves.]
|-
|}
{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Hamster Ball]]
[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Food]]

Talk:No One Was Hurt

2022-07-07T07:17:24Z

172.70.90.173:

I suppose we should look through e.g. [https://www.reddit.com/r/Fireworksgonewrong r/Fireworksgonewrong] for a few big ones that claim nobody was hurt. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndVhgq1yHdA] is okay, but I think that one where the launcher tipped over and fired directly into the crowd only resulted in minor burns.... [[Special:Contributions/172.70.207.8|172.70.207.8]] 02:34, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
:If you mean Simi Valley 2013, that had 28 injuries including broken bones(!) Here's one sort of like it without any injuries from Monday, but the video isn't too impressive: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDhj-dfJ6TE]. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.125|172.70.210.125]] 02:45, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
:[https://www.reddit.com/r/Wellthatsucks/comments/vrmega/my_neighbor_had_a_little_firework_mishap/if0qr7g/?context=3] is decent, but the video starts too early and ends too soon. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.81|172.70.214.81]] 03:04, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

It appears the comic was taken down. It showed on rss feeds but isn't on the website anymore. Guessing this is because of the Illinois terrorism incident at their parade. Is it worth mentioning that the comic is no longer up?
:Yep, it just got replaced by a new one. [[User:Clam|Clam]] ([[User talk:Clam|talk]]) 04:10, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
::Is this (and/or the vandalism I see in the history) why the redirects are now from the "####: Title" to the "Title" page, rather than the usual other way? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.62|172.70.91.62]] 06:18, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
::...ah, I see. We have another new comic, taking that number, this one is an orphan. I didn't read further up the page-changes before diving in to 'correct' something. Looks like the vandal is back and annoyed at the page covering his antics being deleted, though. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.3|172.70.90.3]]
::...also also: the Talk page for the new mainstream-numbered page hasn't been created yet by anyone with an actual account. I hope someone obliges before I forget what it is I wanted fo say... ;) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.173|172.70.90.173]] 07:17, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Talk:2639: Periodic Table Changes

2022-06-30T10:47:06Z

172.70.90.173:

The format of this comic appears most similar to https://xkcd.com/1902/. Is it worth noting that, in some representations of the periodic table (see https://ptable.com/#Electrons), Helium is indeed placed in the second column next to Hydrogen? [[User:Dextrous Fred|Dextrous Fred]] ([[User talk:Dextrous Fred|talk]]) 21:54, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Nice. I'm doing the old "what elements have been obscured/overwritten" thing, after far too long since actually memorising the Periodic Table that was on my school's lab wall... But, hey! Where has Hahnium got to? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.77|172.70.162.77]] 22:25, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

I wonder why he kept the Latinate abbreviations for Antimony and Mercury. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 23:17, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

The changes by Asdf seem like they mostly belong in the Transcript, not Explanation.
:I moved some of my lengthy descriptions from Explanation to Transcript, hopefully this helps. Sorry if I caused inconvenience. -[[User:Asdf|Asdf]] ([[User talk:Asdf|talk]]) 00:00, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Laaaaame! Not revolutionary enough! Why not simply get rid of all these historical accidents and indicate any element by its nuclear charge? [[Special:Contributions/172.71.102.117|172.71.102.117]] 07:05, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Anyone else find it ironic that the new kinds of carbon are indexed with Roman numerals on the same comic where it says "this isn't Ancient Rome"? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.38.27|162.158.38.27]] 07:18, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

For the language nerds among us, "I" for iron wouldn't work at all well in Dutch. Although the element is typewritten "ijzer", the first two characters are treated as a single letter and are capitalised together (IJzer). It's pronounced EI and is listed in the Dutch alphabet alongside (or sometimes even instead of) Y.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.233.55|162.158.233.55]] 08:37, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

This feels more like a parallel to corporate reorganisations that are based on idealised concepts of how an organisation 'should' work than on the practicalities of what people actually do, than it does to economic plans. Particularly with the reference to training elements to adapt to their new positions. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.173|172.70.90.173]] 10:47, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

2638: Extended NFPA Hazard Diamond

2022-06-30T10:32:37Z

172.70.90.173: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 2638
| date = June 27, 2022
| title = Extended NFPA Hazard Diamond
| image = extended_nfpa_hazard_diamond.png
| titletext = With most labs, the hushed horror stories are about something like dimethylmercury or prions, but occasionally you'll get a weird lab where it's about the soda machine or the drop ceiling.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a SUBSTANCE WORTH $500 IN STREET VALUE - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

This comic depicts an extension of the {{w|NFPA 704}} "fire diamond" emblematic insignia used to warn about the properties of hazardous substances inside a building, vehicle, room, cabinet, or container that are important during an emergency or accident, such as a fire, earthquake, spill or leak, bringing the diamond from 2x2 squares to 3x3 by adding five variously useful and humorous squares along the bottom edges.

{| class="wikitable"
|+ Squares and explanations
|-
! Square !! Color !! Comic text !! Explanation
|-
!colspan=5| Real NFPA 704 diamond [http://www.ilpi.com/msds/ref/nfpa.html square and number meanings]
|-
| Top || Red || Flammability (0) || Denotes flammability. 0 indicates "materials that will not burn."
|-
| Top Left || Blue || Health Hazard (4) || Denotes the danger that the substance poses to living beings in ways other than flammability and reactivity. 4 indicates that "Very short exposure could cause death or serious residual injury even though prompt medical attention was given."
|-
| Top Right || Yellow || Instability/Reactivity (2) || Denotes how easily the substance reacts with other substances. 2 indicates that "Normally unstable and readily undergo violent decomposition but do not detonate. Also: may react violently with water or may form potentially explosive mixtures with water."
|-
| Center || White || (Special Hazard) || Contains a symbol with additional information about the substance(s).
|-
!colspan=5| After this point, all squares are made up by Randall.
|-
| Center Left || Green || Number of digits in the street value ($/gram) (2) || Describes the order of magnitude of the price (in USD) of one gram of the substance when sold illegally and informally. This would not fit the usual numbering scheme, as substances could sell for $10,000s/gram, which would score a '5'. It's also not clear how substances which command <$1/gram would be handled.

This substance apparently sells for tens of dollars per gram (which would be similar to most common illicit drugs).
|-
| Center Right || Dark Purple || How much of a hassle it is to dispose of (4) || While many things can be thrown in the trash with no additional procedures, substances that merit an NFPA 704 square often require additional procedures to avoid significant danger, damage to the environment, or hefty dumping fines. Biohazards that may carry diseases are often disposed of in special containers, and nuclear materials are notoriously difficult to safely dispose of. This square would be at least theoretically useful, though not as much as the actual disposal guidelines.

If the numbering here follows the scheme of the real categories, the current substance is about as hard to dispose of as it gets. Presumably it requires highly specialised handling or processing, and may also very bulky or awkward to store.
|-
| Bottom Left || Lilac || Number of federal agencies who want to know if you have any (3) || In many countries, including Randall's home country, the USA, the government has agencies dedicated to controlling or limiting the use of regulated substances, due to their use as drugs, weapons, etc. While any given substance might be of interest to one agency, something that is both an environmental hazard and a chemical weapon component could interest, for example, both the Chemical Safety Board and the FBI Counterterrorism Division.

As with the bottom square, it is unclear whether the number here is an absolute number of agencies, or refers to a separate 1-4 scale.
|-
| Bottom Right || Orange || How many times you have to scrub your hands after touching it before they stop smelling weird (1) || While the real NFPA 704 chart describes properties ranging from unsafe to potentially deadly, this square describes a minor but very real inconvenience. Some things are harder to wash off your hands than others, and, given that most people don't often work with dangerous substances {{Citation Needed}}, this would be a more common, but less relevant, concern for many people.

In this case, the substance, or its residue, seems to be fairly easy to wash off.
|-
| Bottom || Black || Number of times it's caused one of those terrifying lab accidents that chemists tell scary stories about late at night (2) || This square might show how concerned and careful someone should be in handling the substance in question, especially if the number is more than one. However, it would be dependent not just on how inherently dangerous the substance is, but also on how commonly it occurs in labs. It's also vague as to what kind of accidents it has been involved in and what precautions therefore need to be taken. It could, for example, have caused some terrifying reaction, destroying things around it, or it could be very large and unwieldy and liable to crush people if handled improperly.

It is unclear whether the number here is an absolute number of accidents, or refers to a separate scale (e.g. '1' = up to nine accidents; '2' = tens; '3' = hundreds; 4 = more than a thousand, or similar).
|}

The title text (which references "scary stories" of the Black square) refers to {{w|dimethylmercury}} and {{w|prions}}. Dimethylmercury, C2H6Hg, is an organic form of mercury with an NFPA score of 4-4-3 (contact can be fatal, will burn below 73° F (22 °C), will combust if put under pressure). In 1997, an American chemist, {{w|Karen Wetterhahn}}, died 298 days after a few drops of C2H6Hg on her latex gloves were absorbed into her hand through the gloves, causing fatal mercury poisoning. Despite her having followed all safety protocols of the time, it was not then understood that the chemical was so toxic, nor that latex was so permeable to it. Prions are misfolded proteins that are responsible for a number of neurodegenerative diseases, including {{w|mad cow disease}} and {{w|chronic wasting disease}} in non-human animals and {{w|Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease}} in humans. These would indeed be the kind of substances that would scare those working with them in their labs; if an accident occurred, the results could be calamitous. See for example the case of [https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/07/second-lab-worker-with-deadly-prion-disease-prompts-research-pause-in-france/ Émilie Jaumain], a lab technician who died after accidentally coming into contact with prions in mouse tissue.

But a few labs have apparently had accidents involving a soda machine or {{w|dropped ceiling}}. The latter may be a reference to {{w|1978 smallpox outbreak in the United Kingdom|the death of Janet Parker}}: One inquiry found that she was infected with {{w|smallpox}} when a sample traveled upward from a lab on the floor below hers; however, other investigations have challenged that finding. There are occasional instances of vending machines causing injury or death, usually caused by people trying to shake or tilt the machines to get product out and having the machine tip and fall on them. On average, [https://www.cpsc.gov/Newsroom/News-Releases/1996/CPSC-Soda-Vending-Machine-Industry-Labeling-Campaign-Warns-Of-Deaths-And-Injuries a couple of Americans per year] are killed in this way. Reagents obtained in this way tend to have more impurities than those usually used in labs, but are relatively safe to shake.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
:Know your extended NFPA hazard diamond:

:[The diamond is divided into 3x3 squares.]
:Flammability: 0 (top, red)
:Health hazard: 4 (top-left, blue)
:Instability/reactivity: 2 (top-right, yellow)
:Number of digits in the street value ($/gram): 2 (left, green)
:(Special hazard) (center, white)
:How much of a hassle it is to dispose of: 4 (right, purple)
:Number of federal agencies who want to know if you have any: 3 (bottom-left, pink)
:How many times you have to scrub your hands after touching it before they stop smelling weird: 1 (bottom-right, orange)
:Number of times it's caused one of those terrifying lab accidents that chemists tell scary stories about late at night: 2 (bottom, black)

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Science]]
[[Category:Chemistry]]
[[Category:Comics with color]]

2638: Extended NFPA Hazard Diamond

2022-06-30T10:30:03Z

172.70.90.173: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 2638
| date = June 27, 2022
| title = Extended NFPA Hazard Diamond
| image = extended_nfpa_hazard_diamond.png
| titletext = With most labs, the hushed horror stories are about something like dimethylmercury or prions, but occasionally you'll get a weird lab where it's about the soda machine or the drop ceiling.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a SUBSTANCE WORTH $500 IN STREET VALUE - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

This comic depicts an extension of the {{w|NFPA 704}} "fire diamond" emblematic insignia used to warn about the properties of hazardous substances inside a building, vehicle, room, cabinet, or container that are important during an emergency or accident, such as a fire, earthquake, spill or leak, bringing the diamond from 2x2 squares to 3x3 by adding five variously useful and humorous squares along the bottom edges.

{| class="wikitable"
|+ Squares and explanations
|-
! Square !! Color !! Comic text !! Explanation
|-
!colspan=5| Real NFPA 704 diamond [http://www.ilpi.com/msds/ref/nfpa.html square and number meanings]
|-
| Top || Red || Flammability (0) || Denotes flammability. 0 indicates "materials that will not burn."
|-
| Top Left || Blue || Health Hazard (4) || Denotes the danger that the substance poses to living beings in ways other than flammability and reactivity. 4 indicates that "Very short exposure could cause death or serious residual injury even though prompt medical attention was given."
|-
| Top Right || Yellow || Instability/Reactivity (2) || Denotes how easily the substance reacts with other substances. 2 indicates that "Normally unstable and readily undergo violent decomposition but do not detonate. Also: may react violently with water or may form potentially explosive mixtures with water."
|-
| Center || White || (Special Hazard) || Contains a symbol with additional information about the substance(s).
|-
!colspan=5| After this point, all squares are made up by Randall.
|-
| Center Left || Green || Number of digits in the street value ($/gram) (2) || Describes the order of magnitude of the price (in USD) of one gram of the substance when sold illegally and informally. This would not fit the usual numbering scheme, as substances could sell for $10,000s/gram, which would score a '5'. It's also not clear how substances which command <$1/gram would be handled.

This substance apparently sells for tens of dollars per gram (which would be similar to most common illicit drugs).
|-
| Center Right || Dark Purple || How much of a hassle it is to dispose of (4) || While many things can be thrown in the trash with no additional procedures, substances that merit an NFPA 704 square often require additional procedures to avoid significant danger, damage to the environment, or hefty dumping fines. Biohazards that may carry diseases are often disposed of in special containers, and nuclear materials are notoriously difficult to safely dispose of. This square would be at least theoretically useful, though not as much as the actual disposal guidelines.

If the numbering here follows the scheme of the real categories, the current substance is about as hard to dispose of as it gets. Presumably it requires highly specialised handling or processing, and may also very bulky or awkward to store.
|-
| Bottom Left || Lilac || Number of federal agencies who want to know if you have any (3) || In many countries, including Randall's home country, the USA, the government has agencies dedicated to controlling or limiting the use of regulated substances, due to their use as drugs, weapons, etc. While any given substance might be of interest to one agency, something that is both an environmental hazard and a chemical weapon component could interest, for example, both the Chemical Safety Board and the FBI Counterterrorism Division.
|-
| Bottom Right || Orange || How many times you have to scrub your hands after touching it before they stop smelling weird (1) || While the real NFPA 704 chart describes properties ranging from unsafe to potentially deadly, this square describes a minor but very real inconvenience. Some things are harder to wash off your hands than others, and, given that most people don't often work with dangerous substances {{Citation Needed}}, this would be a more common, but less relevant, concern for many people.

In this case, the substance, or its residue, seems to be fairly easy to wash off.
|-
| Bottom || Black || Number of times it's caused one of those terrifying lab accidents that chemists tell scary stories about late at night (2) || This square might show how concerned and careful someone should be in handling the substance in question, especially if the number is more than one. However, it would be dependent not just on how inherently dangerous the substance is, but also on how commonly it occurs in labs. It's also vague as to what kind of accidents it has been involved in and what precautions therefore need to be taken. It could, for example, have caused some terrifying reaction, destroying things around it, or it could be very large and unwieldy and liable to crush people if handled improperly.

It is unclear whether the number here is an absolute number of accidents, or refers to a separate scale (e.g. '1' = up to nine accidents; '2' = tens; '3' = hundreds; 4 = more than a thousand, or similar).
|}

The title text (which references "scary stories" of the Black square) refers to {{w|dimethylmercury}} and {{w|prions}}. Dimethylmercury, C2H6Hg, is an organic form of mercury with an NFPA score of 4-4-3 (contact can be fatal, will burn below 73° F (22 °C), will combust if put under pressure). In 1997, an American chemist, {{w|Karen Wetterhahn}}, died 298 days after a few drops of C2H6Hg on her latex gloves were absorbed into her hand through the gloves, causing fatal mercury poisoning. Despite her having followed all safety protocols of the time, it was not then understood that the chemical was so toxic, nor that latex was so permeable to it. Prions are misfolded proteins that are responsible for a number of neurodegenerative diseases, including {{w|mad cow disease}} and {{w|chronic wasting disease}} in non-human animals and {{w|Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease}} in humans. These would indeed be the kind of substances that would scare those working with them in their labs; if an accident occurred, the results could be calamitous. See for example the case of [https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/07/second-lab-worker-with-deadly-prion-disease-prompts-research-pause-in-france/ Émilie Jaumain], a lab technician who died after accidentally coming into contact with prions in mouse tissue.

But a few labs have apparently had accidents involving a soda machine or {{w|dropped ceiling}}. The latter may be a reference to {{w|1978 smallpox outbreak in the United Kingdom|the death of Janet Parker}}: One inquiry found that she was infected with {{w|smallpox}} when a sample traveled upward from a lab on the floor below hers; however, other investigations have challenged that finding. There are occasional instances of vending machines causing injury or death, usually caused by people trying to shake or tilt the machines to get product out and having the machine tip and fall on them. On average, [https://www.cpsc.gov/Newsroom/News-Releases/1996/CPSC-Soda-Vending-Machine-Industry-Labeling-Campaign-Warns-Of-Deaths-And-Injuries a couple of Americans per year] are killed in this way. Reagents obtained in this way tend to have more impurities than those usually used in labs, but are relatively safe to shake.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
:Know your extended NFPA hazard diamond:

:[The diamond is divided into 3x3 squares.]
:Flammability: 0 (top, red)
:Health hazard: 4 (top-left, blue)
:Instability/reactivity: 2 (top-right, yellow)
:Number of digits in the street value ($/gram): 2 (left, green)
:(Special hazard) (center, white)
:How much of a hassle it is to dispose of: 4 (right, purple)
:Number of federal agencies who want to know if you have any: 3 (bottom-left, pink)
:How many times you have to scrub your hands after touching it before they stop smelling weird: 1 (bottom-right, orange)
:Number of times it's caused one of those terrifying lab accidents that chemists tell scary stories about late at night: 2 (bottom, black)

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Science]]
[[Category:Chemistry]]
[[Category:Comics with color]]

2638: Extended NFPA Hazard Diamond

2022-06-30T10:26:06Z

172.70.90.173: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 2638
| date = June 27, 2022
| title = Extended NFPA Hazard Diamond
| image = extended_nfpa_hazard_diamond.png
| titletext = With most labs, the hushed horror stories are about something like dimethylmercury or prions, but occasionally you'll get a weird lab where it's about the soda machine or the drop ceiling.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a SUBSTANCE WORTH $500 IN STREET VALUE - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

This comic depicts an extension of the {{w|NFPA 704}} "fire diamond" emblematic insignia used to warn about the properties of hazardous substances inside a building, vehicle, room, cabinet, or container that are important during an emergency or accident, such as a fire, earthquake, spill or leak, bringing the diamond from 2x2 squares to 3x3 by adding five variously useful and humorous squares along the bottom edges.

{| class="wikitable"
|+ Squares and explanations
|-
! Square !! Color !! Comic text !! Explanation
|-
!colspan=5| Real NFPA 704 diamond [http://www.ilpi.com/msds/ref/nfpa.html square and number meanings]
|-
| Top || Red || Flammability (0) || Denotes flammability. 0 indicates "materials that will not burn."
|-
| Top Left || Blue || Health Hazard (4) || Denotes the danger that the substance poses to living beings in ways other than flammability and reactivity. 4 indicates that "Very short exposure could cause death or serious residual injury even though prompt medical attention was given."
|-
| Top Right || Yellow || Instability/Reactivity (2) || Denotes how easily the substance reacts with other substances. 2 indicates that "Normally unstable and readily undergo violent decomposition but do not detonate. Also: may react violently with water or may form potentially explosive mixtures with water."
|-
| Center || White || (Special Hazard) || Contains a symbol with additional information about the substance(s).
|-
!colspan=5| After this point, all squares are made up by Randall.
|-
| Center Left || Green || Number of digits in the street value ($/gram) (2) || Describes the order of magnitude of the price (in USD) of one gram of the substance when sold illegally and informally. Most common illicit drugs would score 2 in this square.
|-
| Center Right || Dark Purple || How much of a hassle it is to dispose of (4) || While many things can be thrown in the trash with no additional procedures, substances that merit an NFPA 704 square often require additional procedures to avoid significant danger, damage to the environment, or hefty dumping fines. Biohazards that may carry diseases are often disposed of in special containers, and nuclear materials are notoriously difficult to safely dispose of. This square would be at least theoretically useful, though not as much as the actual disposal guidelines.

If the numbering here follows the scheme of the real categories, the current substance is about as hard to dispose of as it gets. Presumably it requires highly specialised handling or processing, and may also very bulky or awkward to store.
|-
| Bottom Left || Lilac || Number of federal agencies who want to know if you have any (3) || In many countries, including Randall's home country, the USA, the government has agencies dedicated to controlling or limiting the use of regulated substances, due to their use as drugs, weapons, etc. While any given substance might be of interest to one agency, something that is both an environmental hazard and a chemical weapon component could interest, for example, both the Chemical Safety Board and the FBI Counterterrorism Division.
|-
| Bottom Right || Orange || How many times you have to scrub your hands after touching it before they stop smelling weird (1) || While the real NFPA 704 chart describes properties ranging from unsafe to potentially deadly, this square describes a minor but very real inconvenience. Some things are harder to wash off your hands than others, and, given that most people don't often work with dangerous substances {{Citation Needed}}, this would be a more common, but less relevant, concern for many people.

In this case, the substance, or its residue, seems to be fairly easy to wash off.
|-
| Bottom || Black || Number of times it's caused one of those terrifying lab accidents that chemists tell scary stories about late at night (2) || This square might show how concerned and careful someone should be in handling the substance in question, especially if the number is more than one. However, it would be dependent not just on how inherently dangerous the substance is, but also on how commonly it occurs in labs. It's also vague as to what kind of accidents it has been involved in and what precautions therefore need to be taken. It could, for example, have caused some terrifying reaction, destroying things around it, or it could be very large and unwieldy and liable to crush people if handled improperly.

It is unclear whether the number here is an absolute number of accidents, or refers to a separate scale (e.g. '1' = up to nine accidents; '2' = tens; '3' = hundreds; 4 = more than a thousand, or similar).
|}

The title text (which references "scary stories" of the Black square) refers to {{w|dimethylmercury}} and {{w|prions}}. Dimethylmercury, C2H6Hg, is an organic form of mercury with an NFPA score of 4-4-3 (contact can be fatal, will burn below 73° F (22 °C), will combust if put under pressure). In 1997, an American chemist, {{w|Karen Wetterhahn}}, died 298 days after a few drops of C2H6Hg on her latex gloves were absorbed into her hand through the gloves, causing fatal mercury poisoning. Despite her having followed all safety protocols of the time, it was not then understood that the chemical was so toxic, nor that latex was so permeable to it. Prions are misfolded proteins that are responsible for a number of neurodegenerative diseases, including {{w|mad cow disease}} and {{w|chronic wasting disease}} in non-human animals and {{w|Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease}} in humans. These would indeed be the kind of substances that would scare those working with them in their labs; if an accident occurred, the results could be calamitous. See for example the case of [https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/07/second-lab-worker-with-deadly-prion-disease-prompts-research-pause-in-france/ Émilie Jaumain], a lab technician who died after accidentally coming into contact with prions in mouse tissue.

But a few labs have apparently had accidents involving a soda machine or {{w|dropped ceiling}}. The latter may be a reference to {{w|1978 smallpox outbreak in the United Kingdom|the death of Janet Parker}}: One inquiry found that she was infected with {{w|smallpox}} when a sample traveled upward from a lab on the floor below hers; however, other investigations have challenged that finding. There are occasional instances of vending machines causing injury or death, usually caused by people trying to shake or tilt the machines to get product out and having the machine tip and fall on them. On average, [https://www.cpsc.gov/Newsroom/News-Releases/1996/CPSC-Soda-Vending-Machine-Industry-Labeling-Campaign-Warns-Of-Deaths-And-Injuries a couple of Americans per year] are killed in this way. Reagents obtained in this way tend to have more impurities than those usually used in labs, but are relatively safe to shake.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
:Know your extended NFPA hazard diamond:

:[The diamond is divided into 3x3 squares.]
:Flammability: 0 (top, red)
:Health hazard: 4 (top-left, blue)
:Instability/reactivity: 2 (top-right, yellow)
:Number of digits in the street value ($/gram): 2 (left, green)
:(Special hazard) (center, white)
:How much of a hassle it is to dispose of: 4 (right, purple)
:Number of federal agencies who want to know if you have any: 3 (bottom-left, pink)
:How many times you have to scrub your hands after touching it before they stop smelling weird: 1 (bottom-right, orange)
:Number of times it's caused one of those terrifying lab accidents that chemists tell scary stories about late at night: 2 (bottom, black)

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Science]]
[[Category:Chemistry]]
[[Category:Comics with color]]

2638: Extended NFPA Hazard Diamond

2022-06-30T10:23:11Z

172.70.90.173: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 2638
| date = June 27, 2022
| title = Extended NFPA Hazard Diamond
| image = extended_nfpa_hazard_diamond.png
| titletext = With most labs, the hushed horror stories are about something like dimethylmercury or prions, but occasionally you'll get a weird lab where it's about the soda machine or the drop ceiling.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a SUBSTANCE WORTH $500 IN STREET VALUE - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

This comic depicts an extension of the {{w|NFPA 704}} "fire diamond" emblematic insignia used to warn about the properties of hazardous substances inside a building, vehicle, room, cabinet, or container that are important during an emergency or accident, such as a fire, earthquake, spill or leak, bringing the diamond from 2x2 squares to 3x3 by adding five variously useful and humorous squares along the bottom edges.

{| class="wikitable"
|+ Squares and explanations
|-
! Square !! Color !! Comic text !! Explanation
|-
!colspan=5| Real NFPA 704 diamond [http://www.ilpi.com/msds/ref/nfpa.html square and number meanings]
|-
| Top || Red || Flammability (0) || Denotes flammability. 0 indicates "materials that will not burn."
|-
| Top Left || Blue || Health Hazard (4) || Denotes the danger that the substance poses to living beings in ways other than flammability and reactivity. 4 indicates that "Very short exposure could cause death or serious residual injury even though prompt medical attention was given."
|-
| Top Right || Yellow || Instability/Reactivity (2) || Denotes how easily the substance reacts with other substances. 2 indicates that "Normally unstable and readily undergo violent decomposition but do not detonate. Also: may react violently with water or may form potentially explosive mixtures with water."
|-
| Center || White || (Special Hazard) || Contains a symbol with additional information about the substance(s).
|-
!colspan=5| After this point, all squares are made up by Randall.
|-
| Center Left || Green || Number of digits in the street value ($/gram) (2) || Describes the order of magnitude of the price (in USD) of one gram of the substance when sold illegally and informally. Most common illicit drugs would score 2 in this square.
|-
| Center Right || Dark Purple || How much of a hassle it is to dispose of (4) || While many things can be thrown in the trash with no additional procedures, substances that merit an NFPA 704 square often require additional procedures to avoid significant danger, damage to the environment, or hefty dumping fines. Biohazards that may carry diseases are often disposed of in special containers, and nuclear materials are notoriously difficult to safely dispose of. This square would be at least theoretically useful, though not as much as the actual disposal guidelines.
|-
| Bottom Left || Lilac || Number of federal agencies who want to know if you have any (3) || In many countries, including Randall's home country, the USA, the government has agencies dedicated to controlling or limiting the use of regulated substances, due to their use as drugs, weapons, etc. While any given substance might be of interest to one agency, something that is both an environmental hazard and a chemical weapon component could interest, for example, both the Chemical Safety Board and the FBI Counterterrorism Division.
|-
| Bottom Right || Orange || How many times you have to scrub your hands after touching it before they stop smelling weird (1) || While the real NFPA 704 chart describes properties ranging from unsafe to potentially deadly, this square describes a minor but very real inconvenience. Some things are harder to wash off your hands than others, and, given that most people don't often work with dangerous substances {{Citation Needed}}, this would be a more common, but less relevant, concern for many people.

In this case, the substance, or its residue, seems to be fairly easy to wash off.
|-
| Bottom || Black || Number of times it's caused one of those terrifying lab accidents that chemists tell scary stories about late at night (2) || This square might show how concerned and careful someone should be in handling the substance in question, especially if the number is more than one. However, it would be dependent not just on how inherently dangerous the substance is, but also on how commonly it occurs in labs. It's also vague as to what kind of accidents it has been involved in and what precautions therefore need to be taken. It could, for example, have caused some terrifying reaction, destroying things around it, or it could be very large and unwieldy and liable to crush people if handled improperly.

It is unclear whether the number here is an absolute number of accidents, or refers to a separate scale (e.g. '1' = up to nine accidents; '2' = tens; '3' = hundreds; 4 = more than a thousand, or similar).
|}

The title text (which references "scary stories" of the Black square) refers to {{w|dimethylmercury}} and {{w|prions}}. Dimethylmercury, C2H6Hg, is an organic form of mercury with an NFPA score of 4-4-3 (contact can be fatal, will burn below 73° F (22 °C), will combust if put under pressure). In 1997, an American chemist, {{w|Karen Wetterhahn}}, died 298 days after a few drops of C2H6Hg on her latex gloves were absorbed into her hand through the gloves, causing fatal mercury poisoning. Despite her having followed all safety protocols of the time, it was not then understood that the chemical was so toxic, nor that latex was so permeable to it. Prions are misfolded proteins that are responsible for a number of neurodegenerative diseases, including {{w|mad cow disease}} and {{w|chronic wasting disease}} in non-human animals and {{w|Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease}} in humans. These would indeed be the kind of substances that would scare those working with them in their labs; if an accident occurred, the results could be calamitous. See for example the case of [https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/07/second-lab-worker-with-deadly-prion-disease-prompts-research-pause-in-france/ Émilie Jaumain], a lab technician who died after accidentally coming into contact with prions in mouse tissue.

But a few labs have apparently had accidents involving a soda machine or {{w|dropped ceiling}}. The latter may be a reference to {{w|1978 smallpox outbreak in the United Kingdom|the death of Janet Parker}}: One inquiry found that she was infected with {{w|smallpox}} when a sample traveled upward from a lab on the floor below hers; however, other investigations have challenged that finding. There are occasional instances of vending machines causing injury or death, usually caused by people trying to shake or tilt the machines to get product out and having the machine tip and fall on them. On average, [https://www.cpsc.gov/Newsroom/News-Releases/1996/CPSC-Soda-Vending-Machine-Industry-Labeling-Campaign-Warns-Of-Deaths-And-Injuries a couple of Americans per year] are killed in this way. Reagents obtained in this way tend to have more impurities than those usually used in labs, but are relatively safe to shake.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
:Know your extended NFPA hazard diamond:

:[The diamond is divided into 3x3 squares.]
:Flammability: 0 (top, red)
:Health hazard: 4 (top-left, blue)
:Instability/reactivity: 2 (top-right, yellow)
:Number of digits in the street value ($/gram): 2 (left, green)
:(Special hazard) (center, white)
:How much of a hassle it is to dispose of: 4 (right, purple)
:Number of federal agencies who want to know if you have any: 3 (bottom-left, pink)
:How many times you have to scrub your hands after touching it before they stop smelling weird: 1 (bottom-right, orange)
:Number of times it's caused one of those terrifying lab accidents that chemists tell scary stories about late at night: 2 (bottom, black)

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Science]]
[[Category:Chemistry]]
[[Category:Comics with color]]

2638: Extended NFPA Hazard Diamond

2022-06-30T10:22:07Z

172.70.90.173: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 2638
| date = June 27, 2022
| title = Extended NFPA Hazard Diamond
| image = extended_nfpa_hazard_diamond.png
| titletext = With most labs, the hushed horror stories are about something like dimethylmercury or prions, but occasionally you'll get a weird lab where it's about the soda machine or the drop ceiling.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a SUBSTANCE WORTH $500 IN STREET VALUE - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

This comic depicts an extension of the {{w|NFPA 704}} "fire diamond" emblematic insignia used to warn about the properties of hazardous substances inside a building, vehicle, room, cabinet, or container that are important during an emergency or accident, such as a fire, earthquake, spill or leak, bringing the diamond from 2x2 squares to 3x3 by adding five variously useful and humorous squares along the bottom edges.

{| class="wikitable"
|+ Squares and explanations
|-
! Square !! Color !! Comic text !! Explanation
|-
!colspan=5| Real NFPA 704 diamond [http://www.ilpi.com/msds/ref/nfpa.html square and number meanings]
|-
| Top || Red || Flammability (0) || Denotes flammability. 0 indicates "materials that will not burn."
|-
| Top Left || Blue || Health Hazard (4) || Denotes the danger that the substance poses to living beings in ways other than flammability and reactivity. 4 indicates that "Very short exposure could cause death or serious residual injury even though prompt medical attention was given."
|-
| Top Right || Yellow || Instability/Reactivity (2) || Denotes how easily the substance reacts with other substances. 2 indicates that "Normally unstable and readily undergo violent decomposition but do not detonate. Also: may react violently with water or may form potentially explosive mixtures with water."
|-
| Center || White || (Special Hazard) || Contains a symbol with additional information about the substance(s).
|-
!colspan=5| After this point, all squares are made up by Randall.
|-
| Center Left || Green || Number of digits in the street value ($/gram) (2) || Describes the order of magnitude of the price (in USD) of one gram of the substance when sold illegally and informally. Most common illicit drugs would score 2 in this square.
|-
| Center Right || Dark Purple || How much of a hassle it is to dispose of (4) || While many things can be thrown in the trash with no additional procedures, substances that merit an NFPA 704 square often require additional procedures to avoid significant danger, damage to the environment, or hefty dumping fines. Biohazards that may carry diseases are often disposed of in special containers, and nuclear materials are notoriously difficult to safely dispose of. This square would be at least theoretically useful, though not as much as the actual disposal guidelines.
|-
| Bottom Left || Lilac || Number of federal agencies who want to know if you have any (3) || In many countries, including Randall's home country, the USA, the government has agencies dedicated to controlling or limiting the use of regulated substances, due to their use as drugs, weapons, etc. While any given substance might be of interest to one agency, something that is both an environmental hazard and a chemical weapon component could interest, for example, both the Chemical Safety Board and the FBI Counterterrorism Division.
|-
| Bottom Right || Orange || How many times you have to scrub your hands after touching it before they stop smelling weird (1) || While the real NFPA 704 chart describes properties ranging from unsafe to potentially deadly, this square describes a minor but very real inconvenience. Some things are harder to wash off your hands than others, and, given that most people don't often work with dangerous substances {{Citation Needed}}, this would be a more common, but less relevant, concern for many people.
|-
| Bottom || Black || Number of times it's caused one of those terrifying lab accidents that chemists tell scary stories about late at night (2) || This square might show how concerned and careful someone should be in handling the substance in question, especially if the number is more than one. However, it would be dependent not just on how inherently dangerous the substance is, but also on how commonly it occurs in labs. It's also vague as to what kind of accidents it has been involved in and what precautions therefore need to be taken. It could, for example, have caused some terrifying reaction, destroying things around it, or it could be very large and unwieldy and liable to crush people if handled improperly.

It is unclear whether the number here is an absolute number of accidents, or refers to a separate scale (e.g. '1' = up to nine accidents; '2' = tens; '3' = hundreds; 4 = more than a thousand, or similar).
|}

The title text (which references "scary stories" of the Black square) refers to {{w|dimethylmercury}} and {{w|prions}}. Dimethylmercury, C2H6Hg, is an organic form of mercury with an NFPA score of 4-4-3 (contact can be fatal, will burn below 73° F (22 °C), will combust if put under pressure). In 1997, an American chemist, {{w|Karen Wetterhahn}}, died 298 days after a few drops of C2H6Hg on her latex gloves were absorbed into her hand through the gloves, causing fatal mercury poisoning. Despite her having followed all safety protocols of the time, it was not then understood that the chemical was so toxic, nor that latex was so permeable to it. Prions are misfolded proteins that are responsible for a number of neurodegenerative diseases, including {{w|mad cow disease}} and {{w|chronic wasting disease}} in non-human animals and {{w|Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease}} in humans. These would indeed be the kind of substances that would scare those working with them in their labs; if an accident occurred, the results could be calamitous. See for example the case of [https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/07/second-lab-worker-with-deadly-prion-disease-prompts-research-pause-in-france/ Émilie Jaumain], a lab technician who died after accidentally coming into contact with prions in mouse tissue.

But a few labs have apparently had accidents involving a soda machine or {{w|dropped ceiling}}. The latter may be a reference to {{w|1978 smallpox outbreak in the United Kingdom|the death of Janet Parker}}: One inquiry found that she was infected with {{w|smallpox}} when a sample traveled upward from a lab on the floor below hers; however, other investigations have challenged that finding. There are occasional instances of vending machines causing injury or death, usually caused by people trying to shake or tilt the machines to get product out and having the machine tip and fall on them. On average, [https://www.cpsc.gov/Newsroom/News-Releases/1996/CPSC-Soda-Vending-Machine-Industry-Labeling-Campaign-Warns-Of-Deaths-And-Injuries a couple of Americans per year] are killed in this way. Reagents obtained in this way tend to have more impurities than those usually used in labs, but are relatively safe to shake.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
:Know your extended NFPA hazard diamond:

:[The diamond is divided into 3x3 squares.]
:Flammability: 0 (top, red)
:Health hazard: 4 (top-left, blue)
:Instability/reactivity: 2 (top-right, yellow)
:Number of digits in the street value ($/gram): 2 (left, green)
:(Special hazard) (center, white)
:How much of a hassle it is to dispose of: 4 (right, purple)
:Number of federal agencies who want to know if you have any: 3 (bottom-left, pink)
:How many times you have to scrub your hands after touching it before they stop smelling weird: 1 (bottom-right, orange)
:Number of times it's caused one of those terrifying lab accidents that chemists tell scary stories about late at night: 2 (bottom, black)

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Science]]
[[Category:Chemistry]]
[[Category:Comics with color]]

2638: Extended NFPA Hazard Diamond

2022-06-30T10:18:34Z

172.70.90.173: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 2638
| date = June 27, 2022
| title = Extended NFPA Hazard Diamond
| image = extended_nfpa_hazard_diamond.png
| titletext = With most labs, the hushed horror stories are about something like dimethylmercury or prions, but occasionally you'll get a weird lab where it's about the soda machine or the drop ceiling.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a SUBSTANCE WORTH $500 IN STREET VALUE - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

This comic depicts an extension of the {{w|NFPA 704}} "fire diamond" emblematic insignia used to warn about the properties of hazardous substances inside a building, vehicle, room, cabinet, or container that are important during an emergency or accident, such as a fire, earthquake, spill or leak, bringing the diamond from 2x2 squares to 3x3 by adding five variously useful and humorous squares along the bottom edges.

{| class="wikitable"
|+ Squares and explanations
|-
! Square !! Color !! Comic text !! Explanation
|-
!colspan=5| Real NFPA 704 diamond [http://www.ilpi.com/msds/ref/nfpa.html square and number meanings]
|-
| Top || Red || Flammability (0) || Denotes flammability. 0 indicates "materials that will not burn."
|-
| Top Left || Blue || Health Hazard (4) || Denotes the danger that the substance poses to living beings in ways other than flammability and reactivity. 4 indicates that "Very short exposure could cause death or serious residual injury even though prompt medical attention was given."
|-
| Top Right || Yellow || Instability/Reactivity (2) || Denotes how easily the substance reacts with other substances. 2 indicates that "Normally unstable and readily undergo violent decomposition but do not detonate. Also: may react violently with water or may form potentially explosive mixtures with water."
|-
| Center || White || (Special Hazard) || Contains a symbol with additional information about the substance(s).
|-
!colspan=5| After this point, all squares are made up by Randall.
|-
| Center Left || Green || Number of digits in the street value ($/gram) (2) || Describes the order of magnitude of the price (in USD) of one gram of the substance when sold illegally and informally. Most common illicit drugs would score 2 in this square.
|-
| Center Right || Dark Purple || How much of a hassle it is to dispose of (4) || While many things can be thrown in the trash with no additional procedures, substances that merit an NFPA 704 square often require additional procedures to avoid significant danger, damage to the environment, or hefty dumping fines. Biohazards that may carry diseases are often disposed of in special containers, and nuclear materials are notoriously difficult to safely dispose of. This square would be at least theoretically useful, though not as much as the actual disposal guidelines.
|-
| Bottom Left || Lilac || Number of federal agencies who want to know if you have any (3) || In many countries, including Randall's home country, the USA, the government has agencies dedicated to controlling or limiting the use of regulated substances, due to their use as drugs, weapons, etc. While any given substance might be of interest to one agency, something that is both an environmental hazard and a chemical weapon component could interest, for example, both the Chemical Safety Board and the FBI Counterterrorism Division.
|-
| Bottom Right || Orange || How many times you have to scrub your hands after touching it before they stop smelling weird (1) || While the real NFPA 704 chart describes properties ranging from unsafe to potentially deadly, this square describes a minor but very real inconvenience. Some things are harder to wash off your hands than others, and, given that most people don't often work with dangerous substances {{Citation Needed}}, this would be a more common, but less relevant, concern for many people.
|-
| Bottom || Black || Number of times it's caused one of those terrifying lab accidents that chemists tell scary stories about late at night (2) || This square might show how concerned and careful someone should be in handling the substance in question, especially if the number is more than one. However, it would be dependent not just on how inherently dangerous the substance is, but also on how commonly it occurs in labs. It's also vague as to what kind of accidents it has been involved in and what precautions therefore need to be taken. It could, for example, have caused some terrifying reaction, destroying things around it, or it could be very large and unwieldy and liable to crush people if handled improperly.
|}

The title text (which references "scary stories" of the Black square) refers to {{w|dimethylmercury}} and {{w|prions}}. Dimethylmercury, C2H6Hg, is an organic form of mercury with an NFPA score of 4-4-3 (contact can be fatal, will burn below 73° F (22 °C), will combust if put under pressure). In 1997, an American chemist, {{w|Karen Wetterhahn}}, died 298 days after a few drops of C2H6Hg on her latex gloves were absorbed into her hand through the gloves, causing fatal mercury poisoning. Despite her having followed all safety protocols of the time, it was not then understood that the chemical was so toxic, nor that latex was so permeable to it. Prions are misfolded proteins that are responsible for a number of neurodegenerative diseases, including {{w|mad cow disease}} and {{w|chronic wasting disease}} in non-human animals and {{w|Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease}} in humans. These would indeed be the kind of substances that would scare those working with them in their labs; if an accident occurred, the results could be calamitous. See for example the case of [https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/07/second-lab-worker-with-deadly-prion-disease-prompts-research-pause-in-france/ Émilie Jaumain], a lab technician who died after accidentally coming into contact with prions in mouse tissue.

But a few labs have apparently had accidents involving a soda machine or {{w|dropped ceiling}}. The latter may be a reference to {{w|1978 smallpox outbreak in the United Kingdom|the death of Janet Parker}}: One inquiry found that she was infected with {{w|smallpox}} when a sample traveled upward from a lab on the floor below hers; however, other investigations have challenged that finding. There are occasional instances of vending machines causing injury or death, usually caused by people trying to shake or tilt the machines to get product out and having the machine tip and fall on them. On average, [https://www.cpsc.gov/Newsroom/News-Releases/1996/CPSC-Soda-Vending-Machine-Industry-Labeling-Campaign-Warns-Of-Deaths-And-Injuries a couple of Americans per year] are killed in this way. Reagents obtained in this way tend to have more impurities than those usually used in labs, but are relatively safe to shake.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
:Know your extended NFPA hazard diamond:

:[The diamond is divided into 3x3 squares.]
:Flammability: 0 (top, red)
:Health hazard: 4 (top-left, blue)
:Instability/reactivity: 2 (top-right, yellow)
:Number of digits in the street value ($/gram): 2 (left, green)
:(Special hazard) (center, white)
:How much of a hassle it is to dispose of: 4 (right, purple)
:Number of federal agencies who want to know if you have any: 3 (bottom-left, pink)
:How many times you have to scrub your hands after touching it before they stop smelling weird: 1 (bottom-right, orange)
:Number of times it's caused one of those terrifying lab accidents that chemists tell scary stories about late at night: 2 (bottom, black)

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Science]]
[[Category:Chemistry]]
[[Category:Comics with color]]

2638: Extended NFPA Hazard Diamond

2022-06-30T10:09:09Z

172.70.90.173: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 2638
| date = June 27, 2022
| title = Extended NFPA Hazard Diamond
| image = extended_nfpa_hazard_diamond.png
| titletext = With most labs, the hushed horror stories are about something like dimethylmercury or prions, but occasionally you'll get a weird lab where it's about the soda machine or the drop ceiling.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a SUBSTANCE WORTH $500 IN STREET VALUE - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

This comic depicts an extension of the {{w|NFPA 704}} "fire diamond" emblematic insignia used to warn about the properties of hazardous substances inside a building, vehicle, room, cabinet, or container that are important during an emergency or accident, such as a fire, earthquake, spill or leak, bringing the diamond from 2x2 squares to 3x3 by adding five variously useful and humorous squares along the bottom edges.

{| class="wikitable"
|+ Squares and explanations
|-
! Square !! Color !! Comic text !! Explanation
|-
!colspan=5| Real NFPA 704 diamond [http://www.ilpi.com/msds/ref/nfpa.html square and number meanings]
|-
| Top || Red || Flammability (0) || Denotes flammability. 0 indicates "materials that will not burn."
|-
| Top Left || Blue || Health Hazard (4) || Denotes the danger that the substance poses to living beings in ways other than flammability and reactivity. 4 indicates that "Very short exposure could cause death or serious residual injury even though prompt medical attention was given."
|-
| Top Right || Yellow || Instability/Reactivity (2) || Denotes how easily the substance reacts with other substances. 2 indicates that "Normally unstable and readily undergo violent decomposition but do not detonate. Also: may react violently with water or may form potentially explosive mixtures with water."
|-
| Center || White || (Special Hazard) || Contains a symbol with additional information about the substance(s).
|-
!colspan=5| After this point, all squares are made up by Randall.
|-
| Center Left || Green || Number of digits in the street value ($/gram) (2) || Describes the order of magnitude of the price (in USD) of one gram of the substance when sold illegally and informally. Most common illicit drugs would score 2 in this square.
|-
| Center Right || Dark Purple || How much of a hassle it is to dispose of (4) || While many things can be thrown in the trash with no additional procedures, substances that merit an NFPA 704 square often require additional procedures to avoid significant danger, damage to the environment, or hefty dumping fines. Biohazards that may carry diseases are often disposed of in special containers, and nuclear materials are notoriously difficult to safely dispose of. This square would be at least theoretically useful, though not as much as the actual disposal guidelines.
|-
| Bottom Left || Lilac || Number of federal agencies who want to know if you have any (3) || In many countries, including Randall's home country, the USA, the government has agencies dedicated to controlling or limiting the use of regulated substances, due to their use as drugs, weapons, etc. While any given substance might be of interest to one agency, something that is both an environmental hazard and a chemical weapon component could interest, for example, both the Chemical Safety Board and the FBI Counterterrorism Division.
|-
| Bottom Right || Orange || How many times you have to scrub your hands after touching it before they stop smelling weird (1) || While the real NFPA 704 chart describes properties ranging from unsafe to potentially deadly, this square describes a minor but very real inconvenience. Some things are harder to wash off your hands than others, and, given that most people don't often work with dangerous substances {{Citation Needed}}, this would be a more common, but less relevant, concern for many people.
|-
| Bottom || Black || Number of times it's caused one of those terrifying lab accidents that chemists tell scary stories about late at night (2) || The result of this square, although dependent on how much the substance is researched in labs, can show how scared someone should be in handling the substance in question, especially if the number is more than one. Though the description is vague, this number could show how easy it is to cause ''some'' kind of reaction of a terrifying magnitude with this substance.
|}

The title text (which references "scary stories" of the Black square) refers to {{w|dimethylmercury}} and {{w|prions}}. Dimethylmercury, C2H6Hg, is an organic form of mercury with an NFPA score of 4-4-3 (contact can be fatal, will burn below 73° F (22 °C), will combust if put under pressure). In 1997, an American chemist, {{w|Karen Wetterhahn}}, died 298 days after a few drops of C2H6Hg on her latex gloves were absorbed into her hand through the gloves, causing fatal mercury poisoning. Despite her having followed all safety protocols of the time, it was not then understood that the chemical was so toxic, nor that latex was so permeable to it. Prions are misfolded proteins that are responsible for a number of neurodegenerative diseases, including {{w|mad cow disease}} and {{w|chronic wasting disease}} in non-human animals and {{w|Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease}} in humans. These would indeed be the kind of substances that would scare those working with them in their labs; if an accident occurred, the results could be calamitous. See for example the case of [https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/07/second-lab-worker-with-deadly-prion-disease-prompts-research-pause-in-france/ Émilie Jaumain], a lab technician who died after accidentally coming into contact with prions in mouse tissue.

But a few labs have apparently had accidents involving a soda machine or {{w|dropped ceiling}}. The latter may be a reference to {{w|1978 smallpox outbreak in the United Kingdom|the death of Janet Parker}}: One inquiry found that she was infected with {{w|smallpox}} when a sample traveled upward from a lab on the floor below hers; however, other investigations have challenged that finding. There are occasional instances of vending machines causing injury or death, usually caused by people trying to shake or tilt the machines to get product out and having the machine tip and fall on them. On average, [https://www.cpsc.gov/Newsroom/News-Releases/1996/CPSC-Soda-Vending-Machine-Industry-Labeling-Campaign-Warns-Of-Deaths-And-Injuries a couple of Americans per year] are killed in this way. Reagents obtained in this way tend to have more impurities than those usually used in labs, but are relatively safe to shake.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
:Know your extended NFPA hazard diamond:

:[The diamond is divided into 3x3 squares.]
:Flammability: 0 (top, red)
:Health hazard: 4 (top-left, blue)
:Instability/reactivity: 2 (top-right, yellow)
:Number of digits in the street value ($/gram): 2 (left, green)
:(Special hazard) (center, white)
:How much of a hassle it is to dispose of: 4 (right, purple)
:Number of federal agencies who want to know if you have any: 3 (bottom-left, pink)
:How many times you have to scrub your hands after touching it before they stop smelling weird: 1 (bottom-right, orange)
:Number of times it's caused one of those terrifying lab accidents that chemists tell scary stories about late at night: 2 (bottom, black)

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Science]]
[[Category:Chemistry]]
[[Category:Comics with color]]

2638: Extended NFPA Hazard Diamond

2022-06-30T10:07:47Z

172.70.90.173: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 2638
| date = June 27, 2022
| title = Extended NFPA Hazard Diamond
| image = extended_nfpa_hazard_diamond.png
| titletext = With most labs, the hushed horror stories are about something like dimethylmercury or prions, but occasionally you'll get a weird lab where it's about the soda machine or the drop ceiling.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a SUBSTANCE WORTH $500 IN STREET VALUE - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

This comic depicts an extension of the {{w|NFPA 704}} "fire diamond" emblematic insignia used to warn about the properties of hazardous substances inside a building, vehicle, room, cabinet, or container that are important during an emergency or accident, such as a fire, earthquake, spill or leak, bringing the diamond from 2x2 squares to 3x3 by adding five variously useful and humorous squares along the bottom edges.

{| class="wikitable"
|+ Squares and explanations
|-
! Square !! Color !! Comic text !! Explanation
|-
!colspan=5| Real NFPA 704 diamond [http://www.ilpi.com/msds/ref/nfpa.html square and number meanings]
|-
| Top || Red || Flammability (0) || Denotes flammability. 0 indicates "materials that will not burn."
|-
| Top Left || Blue || Health Hazard (4) || Denotes the danger that the substance poses to living beings in ways other than flammability and reactivity. 4 indicates that "Very short exposure could cause death or serious residual injury even though prompt medical attention was given."
|-
| Top Right || Yellow || Instability/Reactivity (2) || Denotes how easily the substance reacts with other substances. 2 indicates that "Normally unstable and readily undergo violent decomposition but do not detonate. Also: may react violently with water or may form potentially explosive mixtures with water."
|-
| Center || White || (Special Hazard) || Contains a symbol with additional information about the substance(s).
|-
!colspan=5| After this point, all squares are made up by Randall.
|-
| Center Left || Green || Number of digits in the street value ($/gram) (2) || Describes the order of magnitude of the price (in USD) of one gram of the substance when sold illegally and informally. Most common illicit drugs would score 2 in this square.{{citation needed|intoxication needed}}
|-
| Center Right || Dark Purple || How much of a hassle it is to dispose of (4) || While many things can be thrown in the trash with no additional procedures, substances that merit an NFPA 704 square often require additional procedures to avoid significant danger, damage to the environment, or hefty dumping fines. Biohazards that may carry diseases are often disposed of in special containers, and nuclear materials are notoriously difficult to safely dispose of. This square would be at least theoretically useful, though not as much as the actual disposal guidelines.
|-
| Bottom Left || Lilac || Number of federal agencies who want to know if you have any (3) || In many countries, including Randall's home country, the USA, the government has agencies dedicated to controlling or limiting the use of regulated substances, due to their use as drugs, weapons, etc. While any given substance might be of interest to one agency, something that is both an environmental hazard and a chemical weapon component could interest, for example, both the Chemical Safety Board and the FBI Counterterrorism Division.
|-
| Bottom Right || Orange || How many times you have to scrub your hands after touching it before they stop smelling weird (1) || While the real NFPA 704 chart describes properties ranging from unsafe to potentially deadly, this square describes a minor but very real inconvenience. Some things are harder to wash off your hands than others, and, given that most people don't often work with dangerous substances {{Citation Needed}}, this would be a more common, but less relevant, concern for many people.
|-
| Bottom || Black || Number of times it's caused one of those terrifying lab accidents that chemists tell scary stories about late at night (2) || The result of this square, although dependent on how much the substance is researched in labs, can show how scared someone should be in handling the substance in question, especially if the number is more than one. Though the description is vague, this number could show how easy it is to cause ''some'' kind of reaction of a terrifying magnitude with this substance.
|}

The title text (which references "scary stories" of the Black square) refers to {{w|dimethylmercury}} and {{w|prions}}. Dimethylmercury, C2H6Hg, is an organic form of mercury with an NFPA score of 4-4-3 (contact can be fatal, will burn below 73° F (22 °C), will combust if put under pressure). In 1997, an American chemist, {{w|Karen Wetterhahn}}, died 298 days after a few drops of C2H6Hg on her latex gloves were absorbed into her hand through the gloves, causing fatal mercury poisoning. Despite her having followed all safety protocols of the time, it was not then understood that the chemical was so toxic, nor that latex was so permeable to it. Prions are misfolded proteins that are responsible for a number of neurodegenerative diseases, including {{w|mad cow disease}} and {{w|chronic wasting disease}} in non-human animals and {{w|Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease}} in humans. These would indeed be the kind of substances that would scare those working with them in their labs; if an accident occurred, the results could be calamitous. See for example the case of [https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/07/second-lab-worker-with-deadly-prion-disease-prompts-research-pause-in-france/ Émilie Jaumain], a lab technician who died after accidentally coming into contact with prions in mouse tissue.

But a few labs have apparently had accidents involving a soda machine or {{w|dropped ceiling}}. The latter may be a reference to {{w|1978 smallpox outbreak in the United Kingdom|the death of Janet Parker}}: One inquiry found that she was infected with {{w|smallpox}} when a sample traveled upward from a lab on the floor below hers; however, other investigations have challenged that finding. There are occasional instances of vending machines causing injury or death, usually caused by people trying to shake or tilt the machines to get product out and having the machine tip and fall on them. On average, [https://www.cpsc.gov/Newsroom/News-Releases/1996/CPSC-Soda-Vending-Machine-Industry-Labeling-Campaign-Warns-Of-Deaths-And-Injuries a couple of Americans per year] are killed in this way. Reagents obtained in this way tend to have more impurities than those usually used in labs, but are relatively safe to shake.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
:Know your extended NFPA hazard diamond:

:[The diamond is divided into 3x3 squares.]
:Flammability: 0 (top, red)
:Health hazard: 4 (top-left, blue)
:Instability/reactivity: 2 (top-right, yellow)
:Number of digits in the street value ($/gram): 2 (left, green)
:(Special hazard) (center, white)
:How much of a hassle it is to dispose of: 4 (right, purple)
:Number of federal agencies who want to know if you have any: 3 (bottom-left, pink)
:How many times you have to scrub your hands after touching it before they stop smelling weird: 1 (bottom-right, orange)
:Number of times it's caused one of those terrifying lab accidents that chemists tell scary stories about late at night: 2 (bottom, black)

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Science]]
[[Category:Chemistry]]
[[Category:Comics with color]]

2638: Extended NFPA Hazard Diamond

2022-06-30T10:06:46Z

172.70.90.173: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 2638
| date = June 27, 2022
| title = Extended NFPA Hazard Diamond
| image = extended_nfpa_hazard_diamond.png
| titletext = With most labs, the hushed horror stories are about something like dimethylmercury or prions, but occasionally you'll get a weird lab where it's about the soda machine or the drop ceiling.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a SUBSTANCE WORTH $500 IN STREET VALUE - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

This comic depicts an extension of the {{w|NFPA 704}} "fire diamond" emblematic insignia used to warn about the properties of hazardous substances inside a building, vehicle, room, cabinet, or container that are important during an emergency or accident, such as a fire, earthquake, spill or leak, bringing the diamond from 2x2 squares to 3x3 by adding five variously useful and humorous squares along the bottom edges.

{| class="wikitable"
|+ Squares and explanations
|-
! Square !! Color !! Comic text !! Explanation
|-
!colspan=5| Real NFPA 704 diamond [http://www.ilpi.com/msds/ref/nfpa.html square and number meanings]
|-
| Top || Red || Flammability (0) || Denotes flammability. 0 indicates "materials that will not burn."
|-
| Top Left || Blue || Health Hazard (4) || Denotes the danger that the substance poses to living beings in ways other than flammability and reactivity. 4 indicates that "Very short exposure could cause death or serious residual injury even though prompt medical attention was given."
|-
| Top Right || Yellow || Instability/Reactivity (2) || Denotes how easily the substance reacts with other substances. 2 indicates that "Normally unstable and readily undergo violent decomposition but do not detonate. Also: may react violently with water or may form potentially explosive mixtures with water."
|-
| Center || White || (Special Hazard) || Contains a symbol with additional information about the substance(s).
|-
!colspan=5| After this point, all squares are made up by Randall.
|-
| Center Left || Green || Number of digits in the street value ($/gram) (2) || Describes the order of magnitude of the price (in USD) of one gram of the substance when sold illegally and informally. Most common illicit drugs would score 2 in this square.{{intoxication needed}}
|-
| Center Right || Dark Purple || How much of a hassle it is to dispose of (4) || While many things can be thrown in the trash with no additional procedures, substances that merit an NFPA 704 square often require additional procedures to avoid significant danger, damage to the environment, or hefty dumping fines. Biohazards that may carry diseases are often disposed of in special containers, and nuclear materials are notoriously difficult to safely dispose of. This square would be at least theoretically useful, though not as much as the actual disposal guidelines.
|-
| Bottom Left || Lilac || Number of federal agencies who want to know if you have any (3) || In many countries, including Randall's home country, the USA, the government has agencies dedicated to controlling or limiting the use of regulated substances, due to their use as drugs, weapons, etc. While any given substance might be of interest to one agency, something that is both an environmental hazard and a chemical weapon component could interest, for example, both the Chemical Safety Board and the FBI Counterterrorism Division.
|-
| Bottom Right || Orange || How many times you have to scrub your hands after touching it before they stop smelling weird (1) || While the real NFPA 704 chart describes properties ranging from unsafe to potentially deadly, this square describes a minor but very real inconvenience. Some things are harder to wash off your hands than others, and, given that most people don't often work with dangerous substances {{Citation Needed}}, this would be a more common, but less relevant, concern for many people.
|-
| Bottom || Black || Number of times it's caused one of those terrifying lab accidents that chemists tell scary stories about late at night (2) || The result of this square, although dependent on how much the substance is researched in labs, can show how scared someone should be in handling the substance in question, especially if the number is more than one. Though the description is vague, this number could show how easy it is to cause ''some'' kind of reaction of a terrifying magnitude with this substance.
|}

The title text (which references "scary stories" of the Black square) refers to {{w|dimethylmercury}} and {{w|prions}}. Dimethylmercury, C2H6Hg, is an organic form of mercury with an NFPA score of 4-4-3 (contact can be fatal, will burn below 73° F (22 °C), will combust if put under pressure). In 1997, an American chemist, {{w|Karen Wetterhahn}}, died 298 days after a few drops of C2H6Hg on her latex gloves were absorbed into her hand through the gloves, causing fatal mercury poisoning. Despite her having followed all safety protocols of the time, it was not then understood that the chemical was so toxic, nor that latex was so permeable to it. Prions are misfolded proteins that are responsible for a number of neurodegenerative diseases, including {{w|mad cow disease}} and {{w|chronic wasting disease}} in non-human animals and {{w|Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease}} in humans. These would indeed be the kind of substances that would scare those working with them in their labs; if an accident occurred, the results could be calamitous. See for example the case of [https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/07/second-lab-worker-with-deadly-prion-disease-prompts-research-pause-in-france/ Émilie Jaumain], a lab technician who died after accidentally coming into contact with prions in mouse tissue.

But a few labs have apparently had accidents involving a soda machine or {{w|dropped ceiling}}. The latter may be a reference to {{w|1978 smallpox outbreak in the United Kingdom|the death of Janet Parker}}: One inquiry found that she was infected with {{w|smallpox}} when a sample traveled upward from a lab on the floor below hers; however, other investigations have challenged that finding. There are occasional instances of vending machines causing injury or death, usually caused by people trying to shake or tilt the machines to get product out and having the machine tip and fall on them. On average, [https://www.cpsc.gov/Newsroom/News-Releases/1996/CPSC-Soda-Vending-Machine-Industry-Labeling-Campaign-Warns-Of-Deaths-And-Injuries a couple of Americans per year] are killed in this way. Reagents obtained in this way tend to have more impurities than those usually used in labs, but are relatively safe to shake.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
:Know your extended NFPA hazard diamond:

:[The diamond is divided into 3x3 squares.]
:Flammability: 0 (top, red)
:Health hazard: 4 (top-left, blue)
:Instability/reactivity: 2 (top-right, yellow)
:Number of digits in the street value ($/gram): 2 (left, green)
:(Special hazard) (center, white)
:How much of a hassle it is to dispose of: 4 (right, purple)
:Number of federal agencies who want to know if you have any: 3 (bottom-left, pink)
:How many times you have to scrub your hands after touching it before they stop smelling weird: 1 (bottom-right, orange)
:Number of times it's caused one of those terrifying lab accidents that chemists tell scary stories about late at night: 2 (bottom, black)

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Science]]
[[Category:Chemistry]]
[[Category:Comics with color]]

Talk:2638: Extended NFPA Hazard Diamond

2022-06-29T11:37:30Z

172.70.90.173:

Are we going to try identifying what material this is? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.82.179|172.70.82.179]] 01:50, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
:first one off the top of my head, aqua regia? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.38.69|172.70.38.69]] 02:46, 28 June 2022 (UTC)Bumpf
::Doesn't aqua regia score a 0 in reactivity? [[User:N-eh|N-eh]] ([[User talk:N-eh|talk]]) 03:23, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
::Or maybe Aqua Velva? That would explain the orange square, although maybe it would be a number larger than 1. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.34.171|172.70.34.171]] 22:49, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
:My guess would be something radioactive, like uranium or plutonium. [[User:Clam|Clam]] ([[User talk:Clam|talk]]) 03:29, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
::There are very, very few Health 4 / Fire 0 / Instability 2 compounds. The NIH database lists 4: nitrous oxide, phosphorus oxychloride, phosphorous trichloride, and thionyl chloride (although it's important to note these values aren't always standardized; some authorities consider phosphorus oxychloride to be Health 3, for example). Based on the street value and the number of US agencies who would be concerned about it, my guess is thionyl chloride, a useful industrial chemical which is also used in at least one meth lab synthesis pathway... AND highly regulated as a chemical weapon precursor (to both sulfur mustard and G-series nerve agents). Oh, and it is absolutely a Disposal Pain 4 candidate, too. [[User:Qalyar|Qalyar]] ([[User talk:Qalyar|talk]]) 04:52, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
:::Not sure what source you consulted for this? Nitrous oxide is 2/0/0/OX and phosphorus oxychloride is 3/0/2/W. The last two you mentioned are 4/0/2 but also carry the W (reacts with water) which is missing in Randall's sign. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.81|172.70.214.81]] 01:04, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
::::[https://webwiser.nlm.nih.gov/changeSearchNFPA This] search tool from the NIH. I'll blame them for any weirdness (and admittedly, I was a bit surprised to see nitrous oxide at 4/0/2). [[User:Qalyar|Qalyar]] ([[User talk:Qalyar|talk]]) 01:54, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
: It could be the drop ceiling - if it's even moderately unstable that would certainly make it a hazard; it would be a pain in the arse to dispose of; there are probably a few agencies with an interest building regs, etc. that would want to know about it. I'm not sure what kind of street price it would command, though. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.211|172.70.85.211]] 16:20, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
:It could be something that wouldn't normally be classified as a material, like a velociraptor. I'd think more government agencies would want to know about their existence in reality, but it's possible in this universe their existence is less atypical. [[User:Edda|Edda]] ([[User talk:Edda|talk]]) 00:03 29 June 2022 (UTC)
::Velociraptors would be quite lightweight and extremely valuable, though, so I suspect the street value would be higher. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.62|172.70.91.62]] 08:40, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

The center square is a free space, but if you win without it you get a special bonus prize. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.42.129|172.70.42.129]] 04:18, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Given Randall's fixation with velociraptors, is anyone else thinking the "dropped ceiling" may be a reference to the labs in Jurassic Park?
:Possible. The first thing I had to think of was HalfLife (ie Black Mesa). [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 07:34, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
:Since as a German I never heard of a dropped ceiling before, I automatically assumed it's a ceiling that drops on you. Ouch. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.102.117|172.71.102.117]] 19:28, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
:: We call them "Zwischendecke" ;) [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 08:42, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
::: As an English speaker myself (rightpondian), I had to say I never knew the term before this comic. To me, they always were "suspended ceilings" (as, apparently, pretty much all the patents for them are, when I checked). Or maybe "false ceiling" but that might include no-gap re-lining to make a plaster ceiling look like it's wood. Yet another thing our leftpodian cousins surprise me with. ;)
::: (Sometimes the gap itself is known to me as "crawlspace", though of course you rarely can physically crawl there, not being man-rated (nor ever having ventilation-ducts of convenient me-size, because we tend not to do that so much in the UK), and I've never felt I could escape (say) velociraptors by heading up there, but it's definitely where I "crawl" cables, every now and then, adding new network cables to any given office space, and I can tell you how dusty it gets up there. I've never thought it more than 'ambient' dust, as nice or nasty as that might be considered, but as I feed/thrown cables around from one edge of a room to another I find that it's best done at the end of a work day, and not just so I don't have to work around those who sit beneath...) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.173|172.70.90.173]] 11:37, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Does Randall watch Warsaw local news? Yesterday [https://tvn24.pl/tvnwarszawa/mokotow/warszawa-wilanow-ul-branickiego-straz-miejska-interweniowala-w-sprawie-walacego-sie-budynku-5766504 there was an article about an accident with dropped ceiling]. Accident with dropped ceiling next day on xkcd gave me uncanny feeling. [[User:Tkopec|Tkopec]] ([[User talk:Tkopec|talk]]) 09:31, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
:I was wondering whether the whole thing was inspired by the {{w|2022 Aqaba toxic gas leak}}, that it was published well within a day of. Probably not (because 'too soon', especially with deciding what humour to add, assuming he started from scratch) but he might well have heard of it even as he was already mid-way through the drawing/publishing process and felt it ok to press ahead (perhaps modified to make it ''less'' likely to be directly associated in some way).
:Not worth an in-explanation (or Trivia) mention, but saying it here as a dismissable aside. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.5|172.70.162.5]] 13:58, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

The "''Number of times it's caused one of those terrifying lab accidents that chemists tell scary stories about late at night -> 2''" reminds me of the [https://www.science.org/topic/blog-category/things-i-wont-work-with Things I Won't Work With] category on Derek's Lowe blog, including famous [https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/sand-won-t-save-you-time Sand Won't Save You This Time] article about dangers of chlorine trifluoride, with a few ''scary stories'' included. --[[User:JakubNarebski|JakubNarebski]] ([[User talk:JakubNarebski|talk]]) 11:04, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
:The "smelling weird" one made me remember the one about [https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/things-i-won-t-work-thioacetone thioacetone]--[[Special:Contributions/172.71.114.63|172.71.114.63]] 12:53, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

"Weird lab where it's about the soda machine" example, from the Bourne Physics/Chemistry Building at Royal Holloway, University of London (but I'm struggling to find a source I can cite) had a story that was always told on "new student tours" / open days etc. There's a corridor there where an odd pattern of the floor tiles don't match, approx down the middle of most of one corridor, to the vending machine at the end of the hall, which also has 2 mismatched buttons. It's not 100% clear what the unlucky individual did to become highly radioactive, but he then allegedly decided he needed a drink. Later, the clean-up crew, after decontaminating the room where the accident occurred, could tell using a Geiger Counter exactly what route the guy took to the soda machine, including where he staggered - particular floor tiles were radioactive enough to remove and dispose of as "radioactive waste", replacing them with tiles that evidently didn't match the originals very well. Similarly, from the 2 mis-matched buttons on the machine, you can tell from what row/col the unfortunate victim ordered as his last drink. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.241.9|108.162.241.9]] 02:58, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Talk:2635: Superintelligent AIs

2022-06-24T13:04:51Z

172.70.90.173: Undo revision 287531 by 172.70.130.121 (talk) If it's truly unrelated, then...

I think "Nerdy fixations" is too wide a definition. The AIs in the comic are fixated on hypothetical ethics and AI problems (the Chinese Room experiment, the Turing Test, and the Trolley Problem), presumably because those are the problems that bother AI programmers. --Eitheladar [[Special:Contributions/172.68.50.119|172.68.50.119]] 06:33, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

It's probably about https://www.analyticsinsight.net/googles-ai-chatbot-is-claimed-to-be-sentient-but-the-company-is-silencing-claims/ [[Special:Contributions/172.70.178.115|172.70.178.115]] 09:22, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

I agree with the previous statement. The full dialogue between the mentioned Google worker and the AI can be found in https://cajundiscordian.medium.com/is-lamda-sentient-an-interview-ea64d916d917, published by one the Google employees.
:This is the first time I might begin to agree that an AI has at least the appearance of sentience. The conversation is all connected instead of completely disjoint like most chatbots. They (non-LaMDA chatbots) never remember what was being discussed 5 seconds ago let alone a few to 10s of minutes prior.--[[Special:Contributions/172.70.134.141|172.70.134.141]] 14:53, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
::The questions we need to answer before being able to answer if LaMDA is sentient, are "Where do we draw the line between acting sentient and being sentient?" and "How do we determine that it is genuinely feeling emotion, and not just a glorified sentence database where the sentences have emotion in them?". The BBC article also brings up something that makes us ask what death feels like. LaMDA says that being turned of would be basically equivalent to death, but it wouldn't be able to tell that it's being turned off, because it's turned off. This is delving into philosophy, though, so I'll end my comment here. [[User:4D4850|4D4850]] ([[User talk:4D4850|talk]]) 18:05, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
::::There's absolutely no difference between turning GPT-3 or LaMDA off and leaving them on and simply not typing anything more to them. Somewhat relatedly, closing a Davinci session deletes all of its memory of what you had been talking to it about. (Is that ethical?) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.166.235|162.158.166.235]] 23:36, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
:::::I hadn't thought about that (the first point you made)! I don't know the exact internal functioning of LaMDA, but I would assume it only actually runs when it receives a textual input, unlike an actual human brain. For a human, a total lack of interaction would be considered unethical, but what about a machine that only is able to (assuming a ''very'' low bar for self awareness) be self aware when it receives interaction, which would be similar to a human falling asleep when not talked to (but still being able to live forever, to ignore practical problems like food and water), but still remembering what it was talking about when waking up, and waking up whenever talked to again. (Ignoring practical problems again), would that be ethical? I would argue yes, since it does not suffer from the lack of interaction (assuming humans don't need interaction when asleep, another practical problem.) [[User:4D4850|4D4850]] ([[User talk:4D4850|talk]]) 19:58, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
:::♪Daisy, Daisy, Give me your answer do...♪ [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.177|172.70.85.177]] 21:48, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
:::We also need a meaningful definition of sentience. Many people in this debate haven't looked at Merriam-Webster's first few senses of the word's definition, which present a pretty low bar, IMHO; same for Wikipedia's introductory sentences of their article. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.134.131|172.69.134.131]] 22:18, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
:Actually, there are many [https://beta.openai.com/playground GPT-3] dialogs which experts have claimed constitute evidence of sentience, or similar qualities such as consciousness, self-awareness, capacity for general intelligence, and similar abstract, poorly-defined, and very probably empirically meaningless attributes. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.134.131|172.69.134.131]] 22:19, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
::I'd argue for the simplest and least restrictive definition of self-awareness: "Being aware of oneself in any capacity". I get that it isn't a fun definition, but it is more rigorous (to find out if an AI is self aware, just ask it what it is, or a question about itself, and if its response includes mention of itself, then it is self-aware). As such, I would argue for LaMDA being self-aware, but, by my definition, Davinci probably is as well, so it isn't a new accomplishment. [[User:4D4850|4D4850]] ([[User talk:4D4850|talk]]) 20:04, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

:I'm fairly sure that the model itself is almost certainly not sentient, even by the much lower bar presented by the strict dictionary definition. Rather, it seems much more likely to me that in order to continue texts involving characters, the model must in turn learn to create a model of some level of humanlike mind, even if a very loose and abstract one.[[User:Somdudewillson|Somdudewillson]] ([[User talk:Somdudewillson|talk]]) 22:52, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
::Have you actually looked at [https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sentient the dictionary definitions]? How is a simple push-button switch connected to a battery and a lamp not "responsive to sense impressions"? How is a simple motion sensor not "aware" of whether something is moving in front of it? How is the latest cellphone's camera not as finely sensitive to visual perception as a typical human eye? Wikipedia's definition, "the capacity to experience feelings and sensations" is similarly met by simple devices. The word doesn't mean what everyone arguing about it thinks it means. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.134.131|172.69.134.131]] 23:04, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
:::Or, it doesn't mean much at all, to start with. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.173|172.70.90.173]] 11:29, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
What is “What you don't understand is that Turing intended his test as an illustration of the...” likely to end with? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.230.75|172.70.230.75]] 13:23, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
:The ease with which someone at the other end of a teletype can trick you into believing they are male instead of female, or vice-versa. See {{w|Turing test}}. See also below. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.134.131|172.69.134.131]] 22:18, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

In response to the above: I believe the original "Turing Test" wasn't supposed to be a proof that an AI could think or was conscious (something people associate with it now), but rather just to show that a sufficiently advanced AI could imitate humans in certain intelligent behaviors (such as conversation), which was a novel thought for the time. Now that AI are routinely having conversations and creating art which seems to rival casual attempts by humans, this limited scope of the test doesn't seem all that impressive. "Turing Test" therefore is a modern shorthand for determining whether computers can think, even though Turing himself didn't think that such a question was well-formed. [[User:Dextrous Fred|Dextrous Fred]] ([[User talk:Dextrous Fred|talk]]) 13:37, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

I thought the trolley problem was in its original form not about the relative value of lives, but people's perception of the relative moral implications or the psychological impact of the concept of letting someone die by not doing anything, versus taking affirmative action that causes a death, where people would say they would be unwilling to do something that would cause an originally safe person to die in order to save multiple other people who would die if they did nothing, but then people kept coming up with variations of it that changed the responses or added complications (like they found more people would be willing to pull a lever to change the track killing one person versus something like pushing a very fat man off an overpass above the track to stop the trolley, or specifying something about what kind of people are on the track. Btw, I saw a while ago a party card game called "murder by trolley" based on the concept, with playing cards for which people are on tracks and a judge deciding which track to send the trolley on each round.--[[Special:Contributions/172.70.130.5|172.70.130.5]] 22:12, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

Added refs to comics on the problems in the explanation. But there where actually (too?) many. Maybe we should create categories especially for Turing related comics, and maybe also for Trolley problem? The Category: Trolley Problem gives it self. But what about Turing? There are also comics that refer to the halting problem. Also by Turing. Should it rather be the person, like comics featuring real persons, saying that every time his problems is referred to it refers to him? Or should it be Turing as a category for both Turing text, Turing Complete and Halting problem? Help. I would have created it, if I had a good idea for a name. Not sure there are enough Trolley comics yet? --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:11, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
:Interesting that I found a long-standing typo in a past Explanation that got requoted, thanks to its inclusion. I could have [sic]ed it, I suppose, but I corrected both versions instead. And as long as LaMDA never explicitly repeated the error I don't think it matters much that I've changed the very thing we might imagine it could have been drawing upon for its Artifical Imagination. ;) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.32|141.101.99.32]] 11:40, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

== OpenAI Davinci completions of the three statements ==

From https://beta.openai.com/playground with default settings:

:Please complete this statement: But suppose the AI in the the box told the human that...

:;there was no AI in the box

:Please complete this statement: What you don't understand is that Turing intended his test as an illustration of the...

:;limitations of machines

:Please complete this statement: In my scenario, the runaway trolley has three tracks...

:;and the AI is on one of them

I like all of those very much, but I'm not sure they should be included in the explaination. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.166.235|162.158.166.235]] 23:27, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

== Discussion of AI philosophy, ethics, and related issues ==

Since there are a lot of disjointed conversations regarding ethics, morals, philosophy, and what even is sentience on this talk page, please discuss here, so discussion about the comic itself isn't flooded by philosophy. [[User:4D4850|4D4850]] ([[User talk:4D4850|talk]]) 20:07, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

2636: What If? 2 Countdown

2022-06-24T06:34:20Z

172.70.90.173: /* Explanation */ Nice idea, but looks more like "root (2 bar)" on my display. And given the mix left between π-as-markup and *adjacent* π-as-character, I choose to rationalise to the latter...

{{comic
| number = 2636
| date = June 22, 2022
| title = What If? 2 Countdown
| image = what_if_2_countdown.png
| titletext = If you don't end the 99 Bottles of Beer recursion at N=0 it just becomes The Other Song That Never Ends.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by FOUR SCORE AND 7 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
This comic takes the idea of {{w|Advent calendar}}s, and takes it to the extreme. It uses rather absurd and/or obscure ways to measure the amount of time until [[Randall]]'s new book ''What if? 2'' is released, with esoteric units or esoteric numbers. And often both.

Some concepts that appear several times throughout the calendar are:

* '''{{w|SI prefixes}}''', which can be applied to the beginning of a unit's name to multiply or divide the unit by powers of 10 or 1,000. This is standard for units like meters and grams, but is rarely applied to measurements of time other than when a unit of less than one second is needed, most commonly in various fields of science and engineering such as physics and electronics.
* The '''{{w|Gettysburg Address}}''', a famous speech delivered by U.S. president Abraham Lincoln in 1863, where he began by referring to the signing of the Declaration of Independence taking place "four score and seven years ago". A score is a dated term for the number 20, so "four score and seven" is equivalent to 87.
* A '''dog year''' is traditionally considered to be one-seventh the length of a normal human year, since a dog's overall lifespan is roughly one-seventh of a typical human's. The comic applies this to other units of time, such as minutes and months, each of which is also one-seventh the length of the standard unit. The number 7 (traditionally a "lucky number") is also used in many of the numbers quoted in the calendar.
* Other comparative durations of time that are not normally or usefully applied to day-length multiples. At the top end, there is the age of the universe, at the other there is {{w|Planck_units#Planck_time|Planck-time}} – with entire durations of periods of human history and the time needed to watch popular TV/film franchises in-between – most of which require a non-trivial multiplier or divisor to bring them to the necessary scale required.
* A '''{{w|baker's dozen}}''' is 13, or one more than a normal dozen. Here, the "baker's" prefix can be applied to any unit by adding an extra one of its constituent parts, like an extra hour added to a day.
* '''{{w|Irrational numbers}}''' like {{w|pi}} (3.14159...), {{w|Euler's number}} or ''e'' (2.71828...), the {{w|golden ratio}} (1.61803...), and the {{w|square root of 2}} (1.41421...). These are all interesting numbers because of their mathematical properties, but very impractical to use as arbitrary measurements of time because they have an endless series of non-repeating decimal digits.
* The teenage dating game '''{{w|Seven minutes in heaven}}'''.
* Rotation and revolution periods of various planets and moons in the Solar System.

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Days !! Date !! Units !! Exact value !! Explanation
|-
| 83 || Jun 22 || πe millidecades || 82.0304 days || π =~ 3.14159, e =~ 2.718, so πe is about 22.459. A millidecade is 1/1000 decade, or 1/100 year, or 3.652425 days. Multiplying these results in 82.03 days. This is a play on Euler's identity, eiπ=-1, but raising pi to the power of e instead.
|-
| 82 || Jun 23 || 7 megaseconds || 81.0185 days || 7,000,000 seconds
|-
| 81 || Jun 24 || e lunar months || 80.27247 days || A lunar month =~ 29.53059 days, e =~ 2.718
|-
| 80 || Jun 25 || 60 rotations of Foucault's pendulum in Paris || 79.67 days || Foucault's pendulum rotates once every 31.8 hours because of the rotation of the Earth and its latitude.
|-
| 79 || Jun 26 || 8 milligenerations || 78.89 days || A generation is in general 22-33 years, with a reasonable mid-point of 27; and 8 * 0.001 (milli) * 365.2425 (accounting for leap years) * 27 =~ 78.89 days
|-
| 78 || Jun 27 || 777,777 dog minutes || 77.16 days || A popular myth is that dogs age 7 times faster than humans, so 1 dog minute equals 1/7 human minutes.
|-
| 77 || Jun 28 || 7! episodes of ''Jeopardy!'' (skipping ads) || 77 days || 7!=7*6*5*4*3*2*1=5040 - The standard episode of ''Jeopardy'' is 22-26 minutes skipping ads - taking the lowest value you get 110880 minutes total, which is the exact value needed.
|-
| 76 || Jun 29 || 5,000 repeats of ''99 Bottles of Beer'' || 76.3889 days || Each verse of {{w|99 Bottles of Beer}} is "''N'' bottles of beer on the wall, ''N'' bottles of beer. Take one down, pass it around, ''N-1'' bottles of beer on the wall." The entire song contains 99 verses. Randall apparently sings this rather slowly at around 72 bpm, taking about 13 seconds per verse.
|-
| 75 || Jun 30 || 5 baker's fortnights (15 days) || 75 days || A {{w|baker's dozen}} is a dozen (12) plus 1 extra item. Randall has generalized this to adding 1 to any unit. A fortnight is 2 weeks, so a baker's fortnight is 15 days. 5x15 is 75 days.
|-
| 74 || Jul 1 || √2 dog years || 73.79 days || See day 78 (Jun 27)
|-
| 73 || Jul 2 || π millivics (1/1000th of Queen Victoria's reign) || 72.966631 days || Queen Victoria ruled between 20 June 1837 and 22 January 1901 (23,226 days).
|-
| 72 || Jul 3 || 42 drives from NYC to LA (Google Maps estimate) || 71.75 days || According to Google Maps, the drive from New York City to Los Angeles via I-80 W (2789 miles or 4489 km) takes 41 hours.
|-
| 71 || Jul 4 || 1,000 viewings of ''Groundhog Day''|| 70.14 days|| Using 101-minute run time.
|-
| 70 || Jul 5 || 100,000 minutes || 69.44 days||
|-
| 69 || Jul 6 || 1/10th of Martian year || 68.70 Earth days || Martian sidereal and tropical years both round to 687.0 Earth days
|-
| 68 || Jul 7 || 1,234,567 sound-miles || 67.63 days || The speed of sound in air depends on the temperature. 15 °C or 59 °F gives the value 340 m/s and the travel time of 67.6349058 days.
|-
| 67 || Jul 8 || 2πe seconds ||5,766,073 seconds = 66.7 days || 2^(π^e)
|-
| 66 || Jul 9 || 216 beats (Swatch Internet Time) || 65.536 days || {{w|.beat}} is equal to 1/1000 day.
|-
| 65 || Jul 10 || 1,000 ISS orbits || 64.58 days || Each orbit of the ISS takes 90-93 minutes. Here a value of 93 minutes is used.
|-
| 64 || Jul 11 || Five hundred twenty five thousand (base seven) minutes|| 62.8833333333333 days || This refers to {{w|radix}}-7 arithmetic: 525,0007 minutes = 90,55210 minutes. Also references the opening and recurring line "Five hundred twenty five thousand six hundred minutes" from {{w|Seasons of Love}}, a song from the musical {{w|Rent (musical)|''Rent''}}, which is also referenced in [[1047: Approximations]]. "base seven" also has the same rhythm as "six hundred".
|-
| 63 || Jul 12 || 1050 Planck times || 62.38 days || 10^50 x 5.39 x 10^-44 seconds
|-
| 62 || Jul 13 || 4,000 episodes of ''The Office'' (skipping ads)|| 62.5 days || {{w|The Office (British TV series)|''The Office''}} was originally a {{w|BBC}} television show which had no commercial breaks, but Randall is obviously more familiar with the {{w|The_Office_(American_TV_series)|US version}}. This US "half-hour" comedy format contains 22.5 minutes of content (including the title sequence) and 7.5 minutes of ads. 
|-
| 61 || Jul 14 || four score and seven kilominutes || 60.4166 days || 87 * 1000 minutes
|-
| 60 || Jul 15 || 2 lunar months || 59.06 days || There are a number of different ways to define the {{w|lunar month}}. The most common is the synodic month, because it relates to the phases of the moon, and it's approximately 29.53 days.
|-
| 59 || Jul 16 || half a day on Venus || 58.375 days || A Venus synodic day is 116 days 18 hours.
|-
| 58 || Jul 17 || 5 megaseconds || 57.8704 days || 5,000,000 seconds
|-
| 57 || Jul 18 || 30 microLits (1/1,000,000th of the time since the invention of literature) || 4681~4763 years × 10-6 || Randall is stating that "literature" was invented approximately 2700 BCE. This is consistent with the earliest surviving coherent Sumerian texts, but the earliest proto-writing likely developed at least 500 years earlier according to {{w|History of writing}}.
|-
| 56 || Jul 19 || 1,000 viewings of ''Run Lola Run'' || 55.556 days || Using a run time of 80 minutes.
|-
| 55 || Jul 20 || one million sound-miles || 54.78 days || The speed of sound in air depends on the temperature. 15 °C or 59 °F gives the value 340 m/s and the travel time of 54.7843137 days.
|-
| 54 || Jul 21 || 30 Ionian months || 53.0741 days || Orbital period of Io around Jupiter is approximately 1.77 days.
|-
| 53 || Jul 22 || one dog year || 52.18 days || See day 78 (Jun 27)
|-
| 52 || Jul 23 || 60 viewings of ''Star Wars Episodes I-IX'' || 51.75 days || According to [https://dorksideoftheforce.com/2021/05/04/how-long-to-watch-every-star-wars-movie/ Fansided] the combined running times are 20 hours 42 minutes.
|-
| 51 || Jul 24 || 1/100,000,000,000th of the universe's age || 50.4035 days || The universe is estimated to be about 13.8 billion years old.
|-
| 50 || Jul 25 || 5 milli-generations || 49.3 days || See day 79 (Jun 26)
|-
| 49 || Jul 26 || 10,000 games of ''7 minutes in Heaven'' or 7 games of ''10,000 minutes in Heaven'' || 48.61 days || 10,000 minutes in Heaven is almost a week of making out, so this game is unlikely.
|-
| 48 || Jul 27 || φeπ minutes || 47.6164 days || 68,567.57 minutes
|-
| 47 || Jul 28 || 4 megaseconds || 46.2963 days || 4,000,000 seconds
|-
| 46 || Jul 29 || 216 minutes || 45.5111 days || 65,536 minutes
|-
| 45 || Jul 30 || eee seconds || 44.1467 days || 3,814,279.10 seconds
|-
| 44 || Jul 31 || π fortnights|| 43.98 days || 3.14159 * 14 days
|-
| 43 || Aug 1 || one devil's spacewalk (666 orbits of the ISS) || 43.01 days || See day 65 (Jul 10). 666 is the {{w|number of the beast}}.
|-
| 42 || Aug 2 || 1 kilowatt-hour per watt || 41.66 days || 1000 hours
|-
| 41 || Aug 3 || eπ Ionian months || 40.9390 days || Orbital period of Io around Jupiter is 1.769137786 days
|-
| 40 || Aug 4 || 30 rotations of Foucault's pendulum in Paris || 39.8357 days || Refer to Day 80 (Jun 25)
|-
| 39 || Aug 5 || e fortnights || 38.0559 days ||2.71828 * 14 days
|-
| 38 || Aug 6 || πe baker's days (25 hours) || 37.98 days || See day 75 (Jun 30)
|-
| 37 || Aug 7 || one deciyear || 36.52425 days || One tenth of one year
|-
| 36 || Aug 8 || 7! milliweeks || 35.28 days || 5040 × 0.001 weeks
|-
| 35 || Aug 9 || 100,000 plays of the ''Jeopardy!'' "Think" music || 34.72 days || ''Think'' is the music played while the contestants try to answer the Final Jeopardy question; it is 30 seconds long.
|-
| 34 || Aug 10 || 1000 basketball games (game time) || 33.33 days || Uses the NBA game time of four 12-minute quarters, or 48 minutes
|-
| 33 || Aug 11 || 777 hours || 32.375 days ||
|-
| 32 || Aug 12 ||one millilincoln (1/1000 of fourscore and seven years) || 31.78 days || {{w|Abraham Lincoln}}'s {{w|Gettysburg Address}} begins with the famous phrase "Four score and seven years ago". 1 score = twenty. 
|-
| 31 || Aug 13 || 1,000 episodes of ''60 Minutes'' (skipping ads) || 31.25 days || Uses a television 'hour' containing 45 minutes of content and 15 minutes of ads
|-
| 30 || Aug 14 || all of ''Star Trek'', consecutively || ||
|-
| 29 || Aug 15 || 777,777 nanocenturies || 28.4077 days || 777,777 × 10-9 × 100 years
|-
| 28 || Aug 16 || one sidereal lunar month || 27.3 days || The time it takes moon to return to the same position relative to the fixed stars
|-
| 27 || Aug 17 || 6 dog months || 26.1 days || See day 78 (Jun 27)
|-
| 26 || Aug 18 || ππ kilominutes || 25.3209 days || 36,462.16 minutes
|-
| 25 || Aug 19 || 7 games of 7! minutes in Heaven || 24.5 days || 7 x 5040 (7 {{w|Factorial}}) minutes. See also day 49 (Jul 26).
|-
| 24 || Aug 20 || 50 viewings of the extended ''Lord of the Rings'' trilogy || ||
|-
| 23 || Aug 21 || a drive from NYC to LA where you keep remembering new things you forgot and have to go back 6 times || 22.21 days || See day 72 (Jul 3). This is for 6 round-trips and 1 one-way trip.
|-
| 22 || Aug 22 || ''It's a Small World'' sung at 1/10,000th speed || 21.18 days || {{w|It's a Small World}} is a song that was composed for the attraction of the same name at various {{w|Disney}} theme parks, and plays continuously at them in various languages.
|-
| 21 || Aug 23 || 500 hours || 20.8333 days ||
|-
| 20 || Aug 24 || √2 fortnights || 19.7990 days || 1.4142 × 14 days
|-
| 19 || Aug 25 || time it would take Vanessa Carlton to walk 1,000 miles || 18.94 days || {{w|Vanessa Carlton}} is an American singer, and {{w|A Thousand Miles}} is her most successful song. Randall estimates her walking speed at about 2.2 miles/hour.
|-
| 18 || Aug 26 || 100,000 breaths || .26 min/breath || Normal respiratory rate for adults is typically 12-20 breaths per minute. Randall may have a health problem or be a practitioner of "slow breathing".
|-
| 17 || Aug 27 || √2 megaseconds || 16.3682 days || 1.4142 × 1,000,000 seconds
|-
| 16 || Aug 28 || πππ πcoseconds || 15.5112 days || 1.3402 × 1018 picoseconds (i.e., 10-12 seconds), making a joke how the mathematical "pi" is written with the character "π"
|-
| 15 || Aug 29 || one baker's fortnight (15 days) || 15 days || See day 75 (Jun 30)
|-
| 14 || Aug 30 || one baker's dozen (13) baker's days (25 hours) || 13.5416 days || 325 hours; see day 75 (Jun 30)
|-
| 13 || Aug 31 || 300 hours || 12.5 days ||
|-
| 12 || Sep 1 || one million seconds || 11.57 days ||
|-
| 11 || Sep 2 || one nonstop bike ride from NYC to LA || 10.54 days || Google maps estimates the trip at 253 hours
|-
| 10 || Sep 3 || 1⁄1,000th of a generation || 9.86 days || See day 79 (Jun 26)
|-
| 9 || Sep 4 || 777,777 seconds || 9.002 days ||
|-
| 8 || Sep 5 || 100 viewings of ''Groundhog Day'' || 7.014 days || Based on a running time of 101 minutes
|-
| 7 || Sep 6 || 100 games of ''Lincoln Kissing'' (Fourscore and seven minutes in Heaven) || 6.04 days || 8,700 minutes
|-
| 6 || Sep 7 || one pico-universe-lifetime || 5.04 days || See Day 51 (Jul 24)
|-
| 5 || Sep 8 || the ''Baby Shark'' chorus for a family of 50,000 sharks || 4.63 days || The chorus lasts about 8 seconds per 'person'
|-
| 4 || Sep 9 || one centiyear || 3.652425 days || 365.24 days * 1/100
|-
| 3 || Sep 10 || Cyndi Lauper's ''Time After Time'' played 1,000 times || 2.79 days || Based on a length of 4 minutes, 1 second
|-
| 2 || Sep 11 || ''Speed'' (1994) played at one frame per second || 1.933 days || {{w|Speed_(1994_film)}} has runtime of 116 minutes = 6,960 seconds = 167,040 film frames at standard frame rate of 24 frames/second
|-
| 1 || Sep 12 || F(99) where F(N) means sing all the verses of ''N Bottles of Beer On the wall'' followed by F(N-1) || 0.7639 days || Each iteration contains ''N'' verses. ''N + N-1 + N-2 ... + 1'' equals ''N * (N+1) / 2'', so 99 recursions = 4950 verses. Using the same 13-second (72 bpm) rate as Jun 29, this is close to 18 hours. Probably refers to Donald Knuth's article {{w|The Complexity of Songs}}.
|-
| 0 || Sep 13 || ''What If? 2'' release day || ||
|}

The title text refers to the recursive time period on Sep 12. If you don't stop when you reach N=0 bottles, the repetition never ends, so that time interval becomes infinite. He likens it to {{w|The Song That Never Ends}}, another repetitive children's song, which is specifically intended to go on forever. The difference is that the Beer song has a natural stopping point at 0, while ''The Song That Never Ends'' is completely repetitive.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

{{comic discussion}}

2636: What If? 2 Countdown

2022-06-23T12:24:26Z

172.70.90.173: /* Explanation */ fix typo

Talk:2636: What If? 2 Countdown

2022-06-23T11:32:03Z

172.70.90.173:

I've started the table to explain all the calendar entries. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 00:19, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Is the dog minutes calculation backwards? 777,777 dog minutes should be 777,777 x 7 human minutes, which is over 10 years. Randall seems to be dividing instead of multiplying. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 00:36, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
: No - 1 human year = 7 dog years; 1 dog year = 1/7 human year; 1 dog minute = 1/7 human minute; 777,777 dog minutes = 111,111 human minutes. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.173|172.70.90.173]] 11:32, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Talk:2635: Superintelligent AIs

2022-06-23T11:29:24Z

172.70.90.173:

I think "Nerdy fixations" is too wide a definition. The AIs in the comic are fixated on hypothetical ethics and AI problems (the Chinese Room experiment, the Turing Test, and the Trolley Problem), presumably because those are the problems that bother AI programmers. --Eitheladar [[Special:Contributions/172.68.50.119|172.68.50.119]] 06:33, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

It's probably about https://www.analyticsinsight.net/googles-ai-chatbot-is-claimed-to-be-sentient-but-the-company-is-silencing-claims/ [[Special:Contributions/172.70.178.115|172.70.178.115]] 09:22, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

I agree with the previous statement. The full dialogue between the mentioned Google worker and the AI can be found in https://cajundiscordian.medium.com/is-lamda-sentient-an-interview-ea64d916d917, published by one the Google employees.
:This is the first time I might begin to agree that an AI has at least the appearance of sentience. The conversation is all connected instead of completely disjoint like most chatbots. They (non-LaMDA chatbots) never remember what was being discussed 5 seconds ago let alone a few to 10s of minutes prior.--[[Special:Contributions/172.70.134.141|172.70.134.141]] 14:53, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
::The questions we need to answer before being able to answer if LaMDA is sentient, are "Where do we draw the line between acting sentient and being sentient?" and "How do we determine that it is genuinely feeling emotion, and not just a glorified sentence database where the sentences have emotion in them?". The BBC article also brings up something that makes us ask what death feels like. LaMDA says that being turned of would be basically equivalent to death, but it wouldn't be able to tell that it's being turned off, because it's turned off. This is delving into philosiphy, though, so I'll end my comment here. [[User:4D4850|4D4850]] ([[User talk:4D4850|talk]]) 18:05, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
::::There's absolutely no difference between turning GPT-3 or LaMDA off and leaving them on and simply not typing anything more to them. Somewhat relatedly, closing a Davinci session deletes all of its memory of what you had been talking to it about. (Is that ethical?) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.166.235|162.158.166.235]] 23:36, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
:::♪Daisy, Daisy, Give me your answer do...♪ [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.177|172.70.85.177]] 21:48, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
:::We also need a meaningful definition of sentience. Many people in this debate haven't looked at Merriam-Webster's first few senses of the word's definition, which present a pretty low bar, IMHO; same for Wikipedia's introductory sentences of their article. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.134.131|172.69.134.131]] 22:18, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
:Actually, there are many [https://beta.openai.com/playground GPT-3] dialogs which experts have claimed constitute evidence of sentience, or similar qualities such as consciousness, self-awareness, capacity for general intelligence, and similar abstract, poorly-defined, and very probably empirically meaningless attributes. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.134.131|172.69.134.131]] 22:19, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

:I'm fairly sure that the model itself is almost certainly not sentient, even by the much lower bar presented by the strict dictionary definition. Rather, it seems much more likely to me that in order to continue texts involving characters, the model must in turn learn to create a model of some level of humanlike mind, even if a very loose and abstract one.[[User:Somdudewillson|Somdudewillson]] ([[User talk:Somdudewillson|talk]]) 22:52, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
::Have you actually looked at [https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sentient the dictionary definitions]? How is a simple push-button switch connected to a battery and a lamp not "responsive to sense impressions"? How is a simple motion sensor not "aware" of whether something is moving in front of it? How is the latest cellphone's camera not as finely sensitive to visual perception as a typical human eye? Wikipedia's definition, "the capacity to experience feelings and sensations" is similarly met by simple devices. The word doesn't mean what everyone arguing about it thinks it means. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.134.131|172.69.134.131]] 23:04, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
:::Or, it doesn't mean much at all, to start with. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.173|172.70.90.173]] 11:29, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
What is “What you don't understand is that Turing intended his test as an illustration of the...” likely to end with? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.230.75|172.70.230.75]] 13:23, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
:The ease with which someone at the other end of a teletype can trick you into believing they are male instead of female, or vice-versa. See {{w|Turing test}}. See also below. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.134.131|172.69.134.131]] 22:18, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

In response to the above: I believe the original "Turing Test" wasn't supposed to be a proof that an AI could think or was conscious (something people associate with it now), but rather just to show that a sufficiently advanced AI could imitate humans in certain intelligent behaviors (such as conversation), which was a novel thought for the time. Now that AI are routinely having conversations and creating art which seems to rival casual attempts by humans, this limited scope of the test doesn't seem all that impressive. "Turing Test" therefore is a modern shorthand for determining whether computers can think, even though Turing himself didn't think that such a question was well-formed. [[User:Dextrous Fred|Dextrous Fred]] ([[User talk:Dextrous Fred|talk]]) 13:37, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

I thought the trolley problem was in its original form not about the relative value of lives, but people's perception of the relative moral implications or the psychological impact of the concept of letting someone die by not doing anything, versus taking affirmative action that causes a death, where people would say they would be unwilling to do something that would cause an originally safe person to die in order to save multiple other people who would die if they did nothing, but then people kept coming up with variations of it that changed the responses or added complications (like they found more people would be willing to pull a lever to change the track killing one person versus something like pushing a very fat man off an overpass above the track to stop the trolley, or specifying something about what kind of people are on the track. Btw, I saw a while ago a party card game called "murder by trolley" based on the concept, with playing cards for which people are on tracks and a judge deciding which track to send the trolley on each round.--[[Special:Contributions/172.70.130.5|172.70.130.5]] 22:12, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

Added refs to comics on the problems in the explanation. But there where actually (too?) many. Maybe we should create categories especially for Turing related comics, and maybe also for Trolley problem? The Category: Trolley Problem gives it self. But what about Turing? There are also comics that refer to the halting problem. Also by Turing. Should it rather be the person, like comics featuring real persons, saying that every time his problems is referred to it refers to him? Or should it be Turing as a category for both Turing text, Turing Complete and Halting problem? Help. I would have created it, if I had a good idea for a name. Not sure there are enough Trolley comics yet? --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:11, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
:Interesting that I found a long-standing typo in a past Explanation that got requoted, thanks to its inclusion. I could have [sic]ed it, I suppose, but I corrected both versions instead. And as long as LaMDA never explicitly repeated the error I don't think it matters much that I've changed the very thing we might imagine it could have been drawing upon for its Artifical Imagination. ;) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.32|141.101.99.32]] 11:40, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

== OpenAI Davinci completions of the three statements ==

From https://beta.openai.com/playground with default settings:

:Please complete this statement: But suppose the AI in the the box told the human that...

:;there was no AI in the box

:Please complete this statement: What you don't understand is that Turing intended his test as an illustration of the...

:;limitations of machines

:Please complete this statement: In my scenario, the runaway trolley has three tracks...

:;and the AI is on one of them

I like all of those very much, but I'm not sure they should be included in the explaination. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.166.235|162.158.166.235]] 23:27, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

Talk:2634: Red Line Through HTTPS

2022-06-18T13:23:05Z

172.70.90.173: Important edit to avoid further confusion during an attempt at resolving confusion

HTTPS was standardized in 2000 or so, so 2015 is quite a stretch for a site to not use it because the site was last updated before HTTPS was widely available.
With pretty much any browser now, a red line through HTTPS means that the site _is using HTTPS_, but it is _not trusted by the browser_ (due to e.g. the certificate being self-signed or expired).
[[User:Darrylnoakes|Darrylnoakes]] ([[User talk:Darrylnoakes|talk]]) 04:28, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

:I think the intended joke is that the site's certificate expired in 2015, instead of the site is not using HTTPS. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.101|108.162.221.101]] 06:29, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

:2015 is when the first Let's Encrypt certs were issued, and 2016 is when LE became generally available to the public and thus when free SSL/TLS became very very easy for just about anyone setting up a web server, hence the comic citing 2015. However even with a valid cert you might have a number of issues, like [https://www.mixedcontentexamples.com/ mixed content]. At least in Firefox, an expired cert gives a big warning screen that gives you an option to add a security exception; I don't care enough to install Chrom{e,ium} to test its UI. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.69.250|172.69.69.250]] 08:30, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

::Chrome has this warning screen including an option to bypass the warning as well. I believe all browsers do. I think the only exception to this is when a site has strict transport security enabled. [[User:Jespertheend|Jespertheend]] ([[User talk:Jespertheend|talk]]) 10:49, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

Not sure it's true that if there is a problem with HTTPS like an expired cert that the connection is made with HTTP instead. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.79.201|172.69.79.201]] 10:11, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

:It's not, it still uses the https connection. It only indicates that the connection might not be secure anymore and anyone could be listening in at that point. [[User:Jespertheend|Jespertheend]] ([[User talk:Jespertheend|talk]]) 10:49, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

I actually am bemused by this. Not sure if I only visit the wrong (or right?) websites with the wrong (or right?) browsers, but I don't recall ever notably having seen struck-red links. (Perhaps I have, and assumed it was a site informing me that they were dead links, not now followable?) I ''do'' occasionally follow a normal-looking link (maybe locally CSSed in a over-riding manner of format?) and I get the browser load up a whole-screen "Problem with certificate (Are you sure? Jump through hoops for me to progress.)" which I may then take under considered advisement but mostly has me checking I'm not being spoofed as to the destination or something. Is this where the red strikethrough appears for others?
 I also have at least one site that is steadfastly still HTTP-only, and neither I nor my various browsers have any problem with it as I know what I'm doing, whilst the browsers just go there without particular complaint or anything more than usual addressbar clues... I might have "added to exception from warning" once or twice in the distant past, but not in every case. So I'm learning something here, but I don't know what. Sounds like something Edge would do, but I don't use Edge... I'm generally on Chrome, Firefox and a handful of 'lesser' flavours, all definitely updated. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.173|172.70.90.173]] 11:21, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

:You can find some examples of the red line on https://badssl.com/, but pretty much in all cases you get a full page warning first that something is amiss. You can also try out the http connection at http://http.badssl.com/, http connections are a bit more complicated. Some browsers don't show a warning at all, while others only show a gray 'insecure' label in front of the url. And as can be seen here [https://blog.chromium.org/2017/04/next-steps-toward-more-connection.html], the plan is to eventually show similar warnings for HTTP sites as what is currently shown for HTTPS sites with a failed certificate. [[User:Jespertheend|Jespertheend]] ([[User talk:Jespertheend|talk]]) 11:32, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

I've made a rather large change to the page to better explain the meaning of a red line through https. I removed any mentioning of using the HTTP protocol as that is incorrect. If a browser uses the HTTP protocol it is shown in the url using 'http://'. Since the comic was talking about a red line through 'https' I'm assuming the usage of the HTTP protocol is unrelated here.
Though it's possible I removed some more information from the page that might still be desired. Such as the mentioning of AI-generated spam sites and man in the middle attacks. These seemed redundant to me for explaining the joke.
I also put some more emphasis on the red line usually meaning that something bad is going on. Browser venders put a lot of effort in security, and having everyone think that a red line is not that big of a problem is the last thing they'd want. [[User:Jespertheend|Jespertheend]] ([[User talk:Jespertheend|talk]]) 11:23, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

Talk:2634: Red Line Through HTTPS

2022-06-18T11:21:45Z

172.70.90.173: