explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

Talk:442: xkcd Loves the Discovery Channel

2025-05-09T10:35:19Z

172.71.26.100:

I think that panel 9 actually is meant to be Black Hat giving the child a present and the lines around the gift suggesting that there is something moving around inside (likely alive and agitated) for the child to open and be mauled/harmed by.
*The transcript comes from [[Randall]] himself, and it says he's taking the present away. [[User:Blaisepascal|Blaisepascal]] ([[User talk:Blaisepascal|talk]]) 10:14, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
:I was hoping it was a bobcat. [[Special:Contributions/76.106.251.87|76.106.251.87]] 19:05, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
:It definitely looks like its a present being taken away, and it fits the line better [[Special:Contributions/172.71.151.98|172.71.151.98]] 05:04, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Great! Now I have a targeted list of comics to add explanations for! [[User:Blaisepascal|Blaisepascal]] ([[User talk:Blaisepascal|talk]]) 10:14, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

To Dgbrt,
"Links do not belong to the transcript, this needs to be fixed."
I know I'm just a noob here, but if you're so sure of that, why didn't you remove them yourself? Isn't one of WikiMedia's pillars "Be Bold"? I personally see no problem, given the self-referential nature of this comic.
Anonymous 07:53, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

:This is not actually a WikiMedia site, but you're right that "Be Bold" is a wiki thing, in general. Nevertheless, in this case, the official transcript provided by Randall includes these references, so they might as well be wikilinked here. (In Dgbrt's defence, he (or she) may not have had the time to undo it himself (or herself).) [[User:Markhurd|Mark Hurd]] ([[User talk:Markhurd|talk]]) 12:12, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

::No time was in fact my first reason; but on the other hand I didn't want to remove links without an section at the explain section. The links are not from the original transcript, it does only mention the references, and this belongs to the explain. The transcript is a transcript, not more. (even no time today for me on this...) --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 22:26, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

:::A compelling argument. I'll take care of it. Anonymous. 18:18, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
::::Please remove next time only the links but not the text. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 22:23, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::Whoops. Sorry I misinterpreted. Anonymous 09:46, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

For panel 19, I have to point out: Everything r34 related isn't necessarily a reference to the comic about it. Just because it is related doesn't mean that he was specifically making a joke about a previous comic, as he is making a joke about r34 which he ALSO happened to make a joke about in another comic. If it referenced Wetriffs or something, THEN it would be a reference.
[[Special:Contributions/173.245.50.72|173.245.50.72]] 03:44, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

I love lamp. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.46|162.158.126.46]] 13:44, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

The Discovery Channel song is itself a parody of a traditional children's song:
I love the mountains
I love the rolling hills
I love the flowers
I love the daffodils
I love the fireside
When all the lights are low
Boom dee ah dah (Randall writes "boom de yada")
Boom dee ah dah ......... [[User:Jsharpminor|Jsharpminor]] ([[User talk:Jsharpminor|talk]]) 16:07, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

::the grey hollowhead victim, just standing there in 'how did you know about the outernet' {{unsigned ip|162.158.108.51|07:21, 9 May 2025}}

3083: Jupiter Core

2025-05-02T15:00:48Z

172.71.26.100: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 3083
| date = April 30, 2025
| title = Jupiter Core
| image = jupiter_core_2x.png
| imagesize = 581x443px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = Juno mission data suggests that Jupiter actually contains Matryoshka doll-style nested copies of every other planet in the Solar System.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|This page was created recently by A PLANET WITH FEELINGS. Don't remove this notice too soon.}}

{{w|Jupiter}} is the largest planet in the {{w|Solar System}}, the fifth planet from the Sun, and the closest-in {{w|gas giant}}. The core of the planet is hidden by an enormous gaseous atmosphere, and this comic lists a number of theories about the structure of that core. The first two are theories that are or have been held by reputable planetary scientists (they can be found in the Wikipedia entry), while the rest are ridiculous ideas from [[Randall]]'s mind.

; Diffuse mix of heavy elements and metallic hydrogen

: This is the current leading theory suggested by measurements taken by NASA's {{w|Juno (spacecraft)|Juno}} probe, a spacecraft orbiting Jupiter since 2016.

; Rocky core with metallic hydrogen mantle

: This was one of the leading proposals prior to the Juno mission.

; Valuable treasure

: Unidentifiable objects that may be gemstones or precious metals, surrounded by dollar signs. May be a reference to the occasionally proposed idea that gas giant cores might be composed of diamond. This idea was mentioned in Arthur C. Clarke's ''{{w|2010: Odyssey Two}}'', and in ''{{w|2061: Odyssey Three}}'' the diamond is found as it was ejected from Jupiter at the end of 2010.

; Emergency backup Earth

: This would be a copy of the Earth that can be put into place once we finish destroying our planet. In popular science Jupiter is often described as a "protector" of Earth since its large gravitational field attracts asteroids that could otherwise hit Earth. This is extending this take to the point where Jupiter has a backup planet in case it fails its mission at protecting the Earth. "Emergency Backup Earth" was previously proposed as an [[1253: Exoplanet Names|exoplanet name]], and as changed to a different exoplanet [[1555: Exoplanet Names 2|later]]. Jupiter's core is not an exoplanet — if anything, it would be a planet, since it is located inside the Solar system.

; Regular planet pretending to be a gas giant to avoid attention

: The joke here is that there is secretly a 'regular' planet (whatever that means — presumably relatively Earth-like) which is shy or secretive and does not want attention, so it pretends to be a gas giant by hiding inside Jupiter. Of course, planets are not shy in real life, as they do not have feelings.{{cn}} The planet inside of Jupiter appears to be Earth-like, and most likely has reasonably advanced life on it, since the large support structures and large surrounding structure itself must presumably have been built by somebody. They're probably quite annoyed at us, considering we've [[1727: Number of Computers|dropped several probes into Jupiter]].

: This might be a reference to [https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/At_Attin At Attin], a fictional planet in the {{w|Star Wars}} Cinematic Universe. At Attin is a planet that has an artificially created protective barrier designed to hide it from discovery, so as to conceal its production of [https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/At_Attin_Mint Republican credits]. The [https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Barrier barrier] makes the much smaller planet within look like a gas giant and has artificial electrical storms, produced by electrical mines, that destroy any unauthorized ships from approaching the inner planet. At Attin appears in the Star Wars show {{w|Star Wars: Skeleton Crew|Skeleton Crew}} which was released only a few months prior to this comic.

; Hard ball from avocado

: This theory proposes that Jupiter's core is a giant avocado pit, which is the large seed located in the center of an avocado. The outer layers of Jupiter also appear to be the flesh and skin of an avocado in the drawing, thereby creating a very, very large avocado. If the total mass of Jupiter were converted to avocados, as seen in the image, Jupiter would represent over 95 quadrillion years' worth of global avocado production as of 2023.

; Baby Jupiter, still gestating

: This theory proposes that Jupiter is a life form which reproduces by carrying a baby version of itself as its core. While this is obviously not the case, it could provide large hints as to how the solar system originated if true. This also prompts questions as to Jupiter's sex, whether it {{w|Asexual_reproduction|reproduces asexually}} and, if not, who the other parent is. Recursion also has interesting effects here, as the small Jupiter must also have a core — it's unclear whether this would contain an even tinier Jupiter, and so on.

:The "theories" of {{w|Immanuel Velikovsky}} propose that Venus came into existence as a cometary body somehow ejected from Jupiter. This body supposedly spent some time bouncing around the solar system by a mechanism similar to quantum mechanics, producing effects described in the Bible, before settling down into its current orbit. (None of this is consistent with our understanding of physics.) The Baby Jupiter shown in the comic might be "born" in a similar manner.

:This is also reminiscent of the {{w|Doctor Who}} episode ''{{w|Kill the Moon}}'', in which it transpires that Earth's moon is in fact a giant egg, and eventually hatches a space creature which, before flying away, lays a replacement egg/moon in its place.

; No core; flat Earth conspiracists are wrong about Earth but right about Jupiter

: {{w|Modern flat Earth beliefs|Flat Earth}} is a debunked conspiracy theory that the Earth is not actually spherical, but flat, with some believing that world leaders are actively trying to hide this fact from the general public. This version of Jupiter proposes that while Earth may not be flat, Jupiter is, thereby not having a core at all.
: While we see the Flat Jupiter from an angle in this depiction, clearly for it to ''look'' spherical from Earth the disc of Jupiter (with 'fake phases' and even carefully adjusted shadows from the Jovian moons) must more or less face the Earth for most of the time. It is not known what arrangements were made to get the illusion past those images supposedly sent back from the various spacecraft that were passing by, or actually orbiting, Jupiter.

; {{w|Matryoshka doll}} (title text)

: Since Jupiter is by far the largest planet of the solar system (and in fact larger by both mass and volume than all other Solar System planets combined), it could hypothetically contain all other planets nested inside one another. The order from largest to smallest would be Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Earth, Venus, Mars and Mercury.

==Transcript==

:Current leading theories for what's in the center of Jupiter:

:[Variations of Jupiter. All except for the last are illustrated with a quartered 'solid segment' of the planet's 'atmosphere' removed to reveal the core.]

:[Jupiter with liquid material at its core]
:Diffuse mix of heavy elements and metallic hydrogen

:[Jupiter with a rocky core]
:Rocky core with metallic, hydrogen mantle

:[Jupiter with a pile of coins for a core, multiple dollar signs being shown]
:Valuable treasure

:[Jupiter with Earth for a core]
:Emergency backup Earth

:[Hollow Jupiter with a rocky planet in the middle, the outer layer held in place by inner supports]
:Regular planet pretending to be a gas giant to avoid attention

:[Jupiter with a smooth ball for a core]
:Hard ball from avocado

:[Jupiter with a small version of Jupiter for a core]
:Baby Jupiter, still gestating

:[Jupiter as a flat circle, with nothing chopped off]
:No core; flat Earth conspiracists are wrong about Earth but right about Jupiter

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Astronomy]]
[[Category:Food]]
[[Category:Conspiracy theory]]

User talk:FaviFake

2025-04-29T10:31:37Z

172.71.26.100: /* i hope you Please Don't Delete User talk:物灵. */ ...I don't know what to say to this user, any more. But can't let it stay unsigned.

<big><big><big><big>Hey there, feel free to '''[https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=User_talk:FaviFake&action=edit&section=new send me a message]''' :)</big></big><div style="float:right;margin-left:10px;margin-bottom:10px;">__TOC__</div></big></big>

== Objects table ==
Thanks for replying. The current table in the main text looks good, but still it is a ''description'' or just ''enumeration'' of game objects, not an ''explanation'' (or in some cases: partly an explanation). Supposing we keep the current structure, it is possible to add explanations for the planet names in the '''Explanation''' column. For example, first sentence of the second paragraph is a good ''explanation'' for the Uzumaki planet's name. On the other hand, Andal has only a ''description'' (what it looks like and what features are present on the surface) and no ''explanation'' (that it refers to Animorphs series of books). There's also a question where one should put explanations of items and messages. Some do not need an explanation ('You found a stick'), but most do: what they mean and what they refer to, both in xkcd context (such as when there's a comic about the thing) and in general context. I hope you understand the difference between ''description'' and ''explanation''. Maybe there's also some misunderstanding resulting from a language barrier; English is not my native language.

What is also missing in the table are many structures or objects found on the planets and, most importantly, dialogues or monologous of the characters, which contain many puns and references, and also hints for the player. There's simply no place for them in the current structure. Making more columns may be messsy. That's why I proposed making several tables covering different aspects.

Please take my remarks as proposals to improve the structure and not as a criticism or request for you to make everything right and fill every cell of the table. I think we need to create a clear structure for everyone else to fill in with details; but also to provide good examples to follow.

Technical remarks:
* In my opinion, the filename column is not needed, it does not appear anywhere while playing, it's in source code only. Better remove it to have more horizontal space for the rest. The names given to the planets by the editors of the explanation page shown in the Description column are fine.
* Coordinates are also not useful for a regular player, who does not use some Javascript addition/cheats, maybe remove it as well; textual directions in '''Explanation''' column are sufficient.

-- [[User:Malgond|Malgond]] ([[User talk:Malgond|talk]]) 19:59, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
:> Thanks for replying. The current table in the main text looks good, but still it is a ''description'' or just ''enumeration'' of game objects, not an ''explanation'' (or in some cases: partly an explanation). Supposing we keep the current structure, it is possible to add explanations for the planet names in the '''Explanation''' column. For example, first sentence of the second paragraph is a good ''explanation'' for the Uzumaki planet's name. On the other hand, Andal has only a ''description'' (what it looks like and what features are present on the surface) and no ''explanation'' (that it refers to Animorphs series of books).
:Hey! Yeah, that's the state of the table ''right now'', and I 100% percent agree with everything you're saying here. All planets and items that need an explanation should be explained and not just described. I mostly just copied and pasted the "planet description/explanations" from the old list to the table: creating the table was way more painful than i thought. I was actually surprized to see that nobody explained what Andal referred to, but I don't know anything about it so more knowledgeable people will have to chip in on that

:>There's also a question where one should put explanations of items and messages. Some do not need an explanation ('You found a stick'), but most do: what they mean and what they refer to, both in xkcd context (such as when there's a comic about the thing) and in general context. I hope you understand the difference between ''description'' and ''explanation''.
:I do! And I wish other people could help here. I'm not sure if you've seen it, but this is the banner i put above the table:
----
'''ALL ITEM EXPLANATIONS NEED TO BE TRANSFERRED FROM THE OLD PLANET LIST TO THE NEW TABLE''' 
We are currently switching from a disorganized list (below, inside the green banner) to the new organized table, but the explanations for specific items are missing from the new table. Please help by copying the item explanations from the old list and adding them to the new table ''in this format:'' 
<code>The item message &ndash; <nowiki>''Where to find it &ndash; Explanation, such as references etc''</nowiki></code> 
Example: You found a cheese platter (Your tanks recharge faster) – ''Next to the cell tower – The cheese is a reference to [https://example.com 1234: Cheese]''
----
'''OTHER ISSUES:'''
* upgrades that end in "???" need to be replaced by the exact upgrade message shown to the user.
* the "Tiles (X, Y)" column for planet coordinates is empty

:As you can see, the explanations should be put right next to the items and messages. Unfortunately no one has started to add them to the table yet

:> Maybe there's also some misunderstanding resulting from a language barrier; English is not my native language.
:Your English is excellent :)

:> dialogues or monologous of the characters, which contain many puns and references, and also hints for the player. There's simply no place for them in the current structure. Making more columns may be messsy. That's why I proposed making several tables covering different aspects.
Almost all the dialogues are on the [[2765: Escape Speed/Transcript]] page, so I guess they should be added there. I don't know if they're already here, I haven't looked at it enough
:: The transcript is not the place for explanations. Puns and references shall be explained elsewhere. I continue working on the transcript but there's still quite a way to go. -- [[User:Malgond|Malgond]] ([[User talk:Malgond|talk]]) 5 May 2023

:> Please take my remarks as proposals to improve the structure and not as a criticism or request for you to make everything right and fill every cell of the table. I think we need to create a clear structure for everyone else to fill in with details; but also to provide good examples to follow.
:Yeah; i totally get everything you said. In my last reply I think I was a bit too rude for some reason, maybe it's because I just finished the table and was tired.

:>* In my opinion, the filename column is not needed, it does not appear anywhere while playing, it's in source code only. Better remove it to have more horizontal space for the rest. The names given to the planets by the editors of the explanation page shown in the Description column are fine.
:* Coordinates are also not useful for a regular player, who does not use some Javascript addition/cheats, maybe remove it as well; textual directions in '''Explanation''' column are sufficient.
I was heavily inspired by the table in the [[2712: Gravity]] explanation, which included these. I kind of agree that the filename could be removed, and the filenames could be added to the planet name or explanation, i didn't think about that. About the tiles, someone might use them someday, but if the column keeps remaining empty, i don't mind seeing it disappear

:I really liked your ideas, if you don't mind I'll copy and paste this discussion in the actual comic discussion page and see what others think --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 21:37, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

::Update: I found a way and added all the coordinates, and moved the planet filenames to the Planet Name column to make more space for the other columns :)

::: Hi, what about dividing planets and objects like in [[User:Malgond/Drafts/Escape_Speed|my experiment]]? There's plenty of horizontal space for explanations and the entries are quite compact vertically. I also think about color-coding the different Types of game objects. -- [[User:Malgond|Malgond]] ([[User talk:Malgond|talk]]) 5 May 2023

::::Hmm, I think it looks a little messy and maybe too complicated. Do any other comics have two different tables? Also, I'm personally not a fan of mixing items, landscapes, and people. I think most people reading the table are there to get an overview of the planets and what they contain. Do we really have to explain everything in such detail? [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 14:09, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

:::::We do not have to follow other explanations too closely, we could use a new form if it seems clearer and better. The current form has no place neither for explaining items nor for dialogues/monologues. More columns could be problematic (specifically in today's world of high and narrow screens of smartphones). Should we explain everything? Well, it us up to collective "us". Personally, I would like someone explain a few puns/dialogues I do not understand.
:::::For now, there's only a handful of people still interested in somehow finishing the explanation for this huge comic. Maybe if we two can agree on some format we could put it in discussion page and ask for votes. (Discussion needs a cleanup, BTW). -- [[User:Malgond|Malgond]] ([[User talk:Malgond|talk]]) 22:00, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

:::::Hey, I'm back. I see you're enhancing your example table, and iI was wondering, do you plan to move your edits to the actual article after you're done and use the test to see how the formatting looks? Isn't it easier to just add them to the main page directly? Just wondering. If you want I can help you port them over :)
:::::Keeping the contents of the table on your talk page and then porting them over afterwards could lead to a loss of information added after you started editing your user page [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 13:11, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

::::::I'm back too. Yes, I intend to put it in the main article, but I am a bit shy to replace a lot of your work; I've asked for opinions in the talk page. Let's see how it sorts out. Maybe someone has a still better idea. -- [[User:Malgond|Malgond]] ([[User talk:Malgond|talk]]) 21:50, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

::::::Oh. I think the structure of the current table in the article is better than the one you've been working on: for example, it's easier to sort for items, is more compact, and is just one. Why don't you just add a "transcript" column like the table on [[2712: Gravity]] to put what things and people say, and add the rest of the information on the respective columns? Personally, I think you're making it a little bit too complicated. [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:26, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

== Haltones ==

"They're not **predominantly** gray, the two main colors are just white and black. Sometimes he uses the gray color just like when he uses any other color" ... It didn't say that they were predominantly grey(/'gray'), any more than it said that they'd be predominently black (as [[:Category:Comics with inverted brightness]], often, in preference to white). The point being that even the most "black and white" images aren't monochrome, but have degrees of grey at the boundaries, with smoothly antialiased boundaries between the full black of the line (or filled area) and the full white of the background (or inverted detail). You'll see this if you zoom in, with your favourite image editor. And very often in images with a default RGB colourspace, even if the effective pallette employed covers just greyscale values. But greys actually do feature a lot, too (often the first choice of non-black-and-white, for slight lessening of prominence, as opposed to 'red pen' ''increased'' visibility). So it's technically inaccurate to describe them as pretty much monochrome. But how to convey this in <...counts...> less than 157ish words? [[Special:Contributions/172.71.242.173|172.71.242.173]] 16:35, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
:The wiki page says
::::"xkcd comics are usually plain, predominantly black-and-white line drawings, but sometimes they make use of hues beyond the usual monochrome colors, even if it is just red-penned annotations.
:I think it's enough, since, even if grey is more used than other non-monochrome colors, I don't believe it's so important that it needs to be included as a "third" main color. If Randall uses many bright colors, that he will obviously also use simpler hues of grey when needed. What do you think? [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 16:51, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
:Aside from the antialising edging gradient, I just used the Random Page link and landed on [[1301: File Extensions|something with functional greys]], [[734: Outbreak|an unusual use of 'Post-It' yellow]], an unremarkably "just black pen" comic and then [[1788: Barge|more functional grey]]. I'd argue against "monochrome" as a description, as clearly there is more than just #000000 and #FFFFFF, often enough, in an actual fill-colour/broad-brush context. Even if that's #808080 or another no-hue shade. (I was expecting to land on a "grey pen" comic to assess, after enough clicks but, having seen what I got in the random first handful, I saw no need to go on.)
:And "monochrome" can be/often is coloured. Sepia photographs or "night vision" green displays are perfect examples of monochrome (with or without halftones/dithering/whatever). As is [[267: Choices: Part 4]] (other Choices comics may be considered "duotone", in different ways).
:Maybe "...are often drawn as black shapes on white, or occasionally white shapes on a dark background, but may feature at least one additional highlighting shade or an even fuller colour pallette." Does that sufficiently cover that whole breadth of use? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.154|172.70.86.154]] 19:48, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

== Childish slang. ==

Agree with you on the recent change that you (generic 'you', not ''you'' 'you'!) sound infantile, any which way, upon use of the words mentioned. Which is how it was still said before the revert in that version of edit. But with <code>"pretty gay" and "retarded" are infantile and offensive slang for "foolish" or "contemptible"</code>, you miss the point. Foolishness is just one distant contender for what "pretty gay" is often intended to mean (even if not actually being used for someone/something 'effeminate'). And "retarded" is more in the whole "thick, stupid, dumb" line of insult than "contemptible" (which is more "horrible, dislikable, repulsive"..?).
 Personally, I also thought it better with not actually defining insults (correctly or otherwise), as it adds power to them. I can call someone a "numpty" in jest, for example, and colloquially that might be understood as the low-level insult (if that) which it is intended to be. But if I start to bandy around its {{wiktionary|numpty#Scots|dictionary definition}} then it becomes more of a seriously accusatory description.
 Just my opinion. Not really understanding the latest revert when it had seemed to be improved (if anything) in the version you reverted away. Just putting it there. I know you're doing a lot of editing (good stuff!) just wondering if you considered this one carefully enough in your obvious zeal. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.182.89|172.71.182.89]] 16:31, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
:Addendum. Meant to say, if you decide to undo/reform your own revert (I won't do it, but on the offchance you see my point), I'd have not said "''commonly'' used". They're used in slang, but I don't think we can say how frequently they pop up. They're "used in slang" (and also not in slang, or at least not insulting slang, where "gay" has a long history of just meaning "happy", whilst "retarded" is often to do with decceleration/minimised acceleration of physical systems) but I'm not sure they're no more than minority words in the whole world of such language. They depict a subset of insult-givers (like the character in the comic, for whom it adds a certain additional characterisation) amongst all the many and varied insult-givers, and Randall surely chose such semi-bowlderised terms to not have to write any of all the far worse words he might also have done. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.94.31|172.71.94.31]] 16:46, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

== IP page to delete ==

I didn't see your thinking about why the Deletion category was not needed there. And, believe me as an IP myself, I've never known anything useful being said on an IP's User or User Talk page. With that example not breaking the pattern any. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.131|172.70.85.131]] 00:41, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
:I just don't think there's a reason to delete it, it's useful to have a previous talk page if the IP continues to edit and people want to communicate with them [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 10:51, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
::"The IP" is whichever one of 'us' happens to land on that particular Cloudflare route.
::I'm not going to go back and find out which IP it represents, to check if it's in their current stock of connected gateways, but it might not be. Or it was even (depending on date) a pre-Cloudflare 'straight' access unproxied and thus no longer seen, even if the exact same editor on the exact same IP lucked on ''their'' initial gateway.
::Certainly it won't map to a meaningful 'user', chances may even be that it doesn't map to ''any'' user. IP-version User/User Talk pages are anachronisms pretty much as soon as they're created. Or before, if based upon trying to contact an author of an older edit. I was on 172.70.85.131, above, but who knows (before I submit it) what this reply's sign-off will say.
::And a one-shot editor may never ever see the results of any conversation that was tried to be started. Whereas I ''might'' see any response, anywhere, that contextually makes it plain that they're talking about an edit I once made.
::Honestly, I think it'd be worthwhile checking ''every'' IP-focussed namespace page and archiving anything truly interesting that found itself in there in some other central location then condemning them all to deletion. Maybe, if possible, prevent their creation too. But I don't have the ability to do anything (except sift through them for any of the very rare gems of quality, but I wouldn't be able to do anything about it from there on in, so...
::...not gonna do anything more about it (I can't, other than reinstate the To Be Deleted membership, whch I won't bother with), but I hope you understand my perspective on this. I've seen you become a very useful member of the community, who I generally respect for your input and tweaks to the site, and don't expect you to take instruction from li'l ol' me (not even working with an established identity). Just consider this as food for thought, and leave it at that if you wish. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.19|162.158.34.19]] 20:12, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

== RTL/LTR: "...but I think it refers to me" ==

Yeah, it does. The point being that we might not do anything about the smartarses who vandalise knowingly (and I don't see a problem with what you otherwise did), but when someone thinks ''they'' have unique and funny joke (along the lines of putting "Citation needed"s ''everywhere'') they might spot the comment and then realise how we've seen it all done before so refrain from the prank. I can't even recall how many times we have had to revert things, but best to put off the casual comedian, and it won't change the outcome either way for the dedicated vandal with their blood up and looking to cause trouble. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.107|141.101.98.107]] 20:00, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
:I guess you're right, I just thought it was very clear for everyone that rendering an entire article unreadable was an act of pure vandalism, but I guess an editor comment doesn't hurt. [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 10:53, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

== The reason "the image size wasn't there"? ==

...because it didn't need an image-size restriction, originally? Compare the [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/File:Miss_lenhart.png previous and current version sizes]. Nice to have a (''huge!'') high-res headshot, no doubt, but clearly that's why you found that it now needs artificially constraining... No actual mystery. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.63|172.70.85.63]] 17:16, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

:Yeah you're right, I just assumed every comic had the image size to be future-proof. The weird thing was that the "imagesize: " part was already there, but there was no value. Anyway, nothing important.

== I disagree with Oxford commas. ==

"For breakfast I had some bread, toast, and jam." - A legitimate(ish) case of ", and ". Or "I created the world, and saw that it was good." I otherwise prefer to suscribe to replacing all non-final conjunctions in sequence with commas but ''not'' adding one before the ultimate (remaining) conjunction. That's like having "Fish, and chips", where it isn't an actual afterthought. And best to rephrase or repunctuate (e.g. with super-listing semicolons to separate) if you have confusing comma-breakout clauses that ''so'' easily clash (or lead you down funny garden paths) with Oxford Commas. My opinion, but this is why syntax is clearer when leaving out OCs. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.93|172.70.85.93]] 13:59, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
:I just think it's better to use it everywhere to avoid any possible confusion. If we used it half the time, it would be inconsistent. But it's no big deal.
::Similarly, no big deal. Except that it ''looked'' like an error. You've done a lot of useful changes, recently... A ''lot''... Which is not a bad thing, I must add. Occasionally I've seen what (I thought!) you intended to say, and I've helped out with a misplaced word or two. And I honestly do not feel like OCs read correctly in many circumstances. How would you even OC something like "...you should paint it red, yellow or, maybe, orange"?
::The comma already does a lot of heavy lifting, four or five different uses can occur in the same sentence, with it commonly doing duty as a sub-clause parenthetical (except without the clear open/close distinction of an actual parenthetical) ''as well as'' conjunction-replacement within a list. You will find many instances of non-OCed lists on the site. In fact I find the "Please note that all contributions to explain xkcd..." bit, below this edit box, to be the exception and not the rule.
::Anyhoo... I 'corrected' an example, but did not re'correct' it once you made it obvious what rule you were working to. I think you're less right than me, naturally, even if I wouldn't say that you're more wrong. ;) But I thought I'd make you a brief note of my thoughts rather than edit-warring the issue. Less brief, now, but I hope you still take it in good humour. (Oh, yeah, I'm sort of Ok with Oxford Spelling, insofar as it's mostly what I use naturally. Except for the "-ize" bit. That and their Comma are totally against how I was taught at school, a number of decades ago. :P ) [[Special:Contributions/172.71.242.71|172.71.242.71]] 15:26, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
:::You really seem to care about this a lot more than I do, if you want feel free to revert my edit back. I'm not even sure why we're here talking about commas lol
:::I'm no expert and I just like commas. Thanks for checking my edits, I think I've seen a few of your corrections. I have a lot of free time at the moment and I seem to like fixing up unorganized things here --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 21:42, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

== Science Girl/Hairbun ==

You may have noted that several of the Talk pages attached to those you changed already had discussions about whether someone was Hairbun or (a possibly grown-up version of) Science Girl, and you had people like Kynde support the change ''to'' treating her as Science Girl. No skin off my nose, but I'm not sure your arguments are strong enough to support your broad sweep changes in that regard. I think I'd side with "bun with trailing hair" being SG (regardless of apparent age/maturity, as the description only really says ''usually'' a child, whether you take that as prescriptivist or descriptivist) but not enough that I'd reverse your considerable efforts in this matter. But on the off-chance that you hadn't noticed the prior discussions and conclusions, before making your own assessment. FYI, only. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.204|172.71.178.204]] 14:01, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

:I will properly reply to you tomorrow since it's midnight here. Btw thanks for letting me know these hyperlinks were rendered correctly, and for fixing my 1 typo <s>(after i corrected 100)</s>
::Guys, some things may be being taken too seriously. Assuming [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1608:_Hoverboard&diff=prev&oldid=317396 this was the 'one error'], yeah, the Pedant's Curse hits us all, that's the point. Easy to see how it was done (read as "a Category:Interactive..." rather than "an interactive", or whatever). Happens to the best of us, when concentrating on loads of other things. Not sure about the Jill thing, at all, myself, but that discussion is probably for soewhere else. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.79.158|172.69.79.158]] 22:22, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

:::Nonononono I wasn't serious when I thanked you about the typo, I was also just kidding. I was joking about how after I corrected a ton of typos I added one more.
:::On the main topic you brought up: I think Jill's main characteristics (I'll talk about why I renamed her) are that she is a child, she is usually interested in science, and has always one or two buns with trailing hair. [[Hairbun]] isn't as defined as Jill: she just has a bun. This is what the page [[Hairbun]] (written entirely by Kynde, I haven't reformatted to remove the bullet points yet), say about the bun:
----
:::*Her appearance, apart from her glasses, can also change.
:::**In 703: Honor Societies, 708: Sex Dice, 1511: Spice Girl, 1601: Isolation and in every instance in 1608: Hoverboard her hair looks somewhat different, curly and with some kind of ponytail, but since '''her main distinguishing characteristic is the hair bun''', these comics are included.
:::[...]
:::*There are some characters with hair buns that are not Hairbun:
:::**Since she is a grown woman, she should not be confused with Jill or any other small girls with hair bun like in 1584: Moments of Inspiration.
----
:::And on the Page for Jill, before I ever touched it, it said:
:::*As she is usually also clearly a child she usually cannot be confused with Hairbun
----
:::Kynde mentioned [[1511: Spice Girl]] and [[1601: Isolation]] as featuring Hairbun and not Jill, but they look exactly like a grown-up Jill. Plus, on the gallery section on [[Hairbun]] (I'm working on adding back a better one since the old one was kinda broken UPDATE 11:13, 8 July 2023 (UTC): Added the gallery back with vector images), this was the first picture of Hairbun:
:::[[File:Hair Bun Girl with curly hair and ponytail.png]]

:::So, to recap: Hairbun has always had a version with a bun with trailing hair, but it was inconsistent between comics, so I settled on Jill is a girl that always has trailing hair and Hairbun is an adult that sometimes has trailing hair.

:::On the topic of renaming Jill:
:::*I searched the wiki for Jill and found 3 discussions. One of them ended up "why world we even create a page for that girl, there aren't many comics featuring her.", but didn't criticize the name too much iirc
:::*We did the same thing for [[Danish]]. The only time she was given ''any'' name ("Danish in the sense of "darling" iirc), that was the name used.
:::*If we change our minds and Jill also becomes a woman, we don't have to remove the "girl" part.
:::*I'm not sure about this, but I think she's slowing being added more and more outside science comics.

:::Wow this was long --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 10:20, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

== In reply to [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2794:_Alphabet_Notes&curid=26437&diff=321127&oldid=320916 this query]... ==

There's {{w|Welsh orthography|the Welsh}}, at the very least! (Well, you did ask! Even if it's truly not so relevent. ;) ) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.159|172.70.86.159]] 11:29, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
:Lol. TIL! --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 20:13, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

== Plural animals ==

Following on from Ferret->Ferrets, what about the last remaining singular that is Category:Apatosaurus? (I must admit, all your edits/re-edits are making my head spin, as worthy as they often are, but this seems like the next logical step that I thought you might have done to finish that particular neatening job.) But I'll leave it up to you as to whether it's Apatosauruses, Apatosaurii or whatever else you might consider most appropriate... ;) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.98|172.70.85.98]] 10:15, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
:I actually thought about it, and I came to the conclusion that I don't know what the plural of that word is. Feel free to research if there's a "right" word and rename that category :)
:> (I must admit, all your edits/re-edits are making my head spin,
:Yeah I don't really organize everything I want to change beforehand, so whenever i notice a little thing is missing, I add it to every page that needs it. I guess it's easier to review my edits in bulk from a page's version history lol --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 10:53, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

== Username ==
I spotted a spam-like user named "Papyrus". [[User:ChristmasGospel|ChristmasGospel]] ([[User talk:ChristmasGospel|talk]]) 21:55, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
:Interesting, i edited that comic's page yesterday. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 07:49, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
== Community portal spam ==
The spammers seem to be deleting text from Community Portal. [[User:ConscriptGlossary|ConscriptGlossary]] ([[User talk:ConscriptGlossary|talk]]) 07:28, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
:Thanks, but I couldn't find any recent example concerning me. Do you mind giving an example? --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 07:49, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

== Possible Adminship? ==

Hi FaviFake, I’m Victoria. I’m planning on reaching out to Jeff via Twitter/X because there’s a long list of things that only he can do. You can see the list at my [[User:42.book.addict#To_Do_List_for_Jeff|user page]]. One of these tasks is promoting more admins. Seeing as you are quite active, and have done quite a lot of edits (top 10 in CS score-wow!), would you like to be mentioned in my message as a possible admin candidate? [[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]] ([[User talk:42.book.addict|talk]]) 17:21, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
: Oh hey, thanks for messaging me! I started caring a lot for this site about a year ago, went on a complete pause for a few months, and came back this week. You seem very active, love to see some new active users! I saw your message on the community portal saying you were trying to find a way to contact Jeff. That's actually something I've thought about doing for a long time but never actually tried since not even Davidy22 was able to contact him at one point iirc.
:Anyway, yes, I'd love to be an admin for this site since there are so many things I can't do as a user (i have my own to-do list, which includes 1) actually deleting pages in Pages to delete and 2) improving/fixing the comic templates and Main page).
: So yeah, I wish you good luck contacting him! My only advice is to use any possible way to (or to get someone else to) contact him without worrying too much about annoying him. His last contribution was more than a year ago, he can totally jump back in for a moment after being unreachable for so long. I really like your message, it's very well-written, now the hard part is getting it to him. Asking Davidy22 for his email address (or finding it online) sounds like a great idea to me. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 22:12, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

== Trivia below transcript ==
The FAQ page says that trivia is below transcript. I'm very sorry about this. [[User:ConscriptGlossary|ConscriptGlossary]] ([[User talk:ConscriptGlossary|talk]]) 00:41, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
:Nono don't be sorry, you're totally right! I came back here after months of being offline and forgot about the order! I realised my mistake yesterday but didn't have the time to go look for the article to revert my edit. Please revert it if you get the chance to do it before me. [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 04:53, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
::There, I should've fixed it now. I see you also reverted my edit, thanks! [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 04:59, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

== On the Ghosts in the NavPane ==

When I saw 42's inclusion of Ghosts in the Character NavPane, I was pondering asking for Demons and Aliens (the blob-monster types, or near variations, from both UFO-ish comics and far-future) to be added alongside.

But I agree with you that they're not ''really'' minor characters. Yet I think they (all of them) deserve a slot there, as they are as much a feature as the (Animals/)Squirrels section. Originally thought to suggest "Groups" (could include "Multiple Cueballs" and even "Children" for groups with otherwise un-IDed child characters), which you could still ''also'' add (but for human-character groups only), but now thinking "Other Beings" could hold Ghosts, Demons and Aliens (maybe "Future Beings" separate from the latter, or at least the differently-futuristic "Floating Orbs" as ''another'' other classification category in there). As a section between Real People and Animals, I thought, unless it's decided best to put them after Animals.

Food for thought, anyway. You (and 42, and maybe others) may have your own ideas on this, and I wouldn't (and can't) spring my own ideas upon you by suddenly just editing the appropriate source. It probably needs discussion. I nearly put my earlier thoughts in the Community Portal area, but as you're personally active on this at the moment I thought it might be easier for you to ponder if I finally commited it to writing just here. (Feel free to move this contrib/advertise it wider, if you see fit.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.62|172.70.91.62]] 14:19, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
:Just popping in to add my 2 cents-I wholeheartedly agree with the idea of having “other beings” in the navbox. '''[[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]][[User talk:42.book.addict|Talk to me!]]''' 16:02, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
::Hey there, thanks a lot for messaging me about this. I disagree with you for one specific reason: the navbox was initially supposed to catalogue the recurring characters in the comics which displayed more or less the same behaviours across comics, such as [[Black Hat]] and [[Beret Guy]]. It then expanded to include real people, such as politicians, which still remained the same characters across different comics. The animal section is different in that some of them are the same animals across comics (such as bobcats and red spiders, for example), but since we had to include them, we included EVERY animal, even when they were completely different every time, because it'd look weird if the only animals there were the specific ones i mentioned.
::If we included a section such as Other beings that includes ghosts, I believe it would be filled with characters that are not the same in every comic they appear in and the navbox would completely lose its intended purpose. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 18:13, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

== (Whoops, forgot a header!) ...FYC ==

If you agree with {{diff|356369|these additions/changes}}, with or without other adjustments, I was wondering if you'd like to do the respective changes to the Incomplete Article category page, as I find it's semi-protected and I'm thus locked out from the edits that I thought I might duplicate there too (in my IP state – yes, I know I could change this, but I'm happier just to leave it up to you/whoever). Anyway, for your consideration. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.202.75|162.158.202.75]] 17:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
: Done! Thanks. I removed a few technical details. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 07:24, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

==The [[What If? chapters|''What If?'' article index]] project==
''The messages regarding the [[What If? chapters|''What If?'' article index]] project have been moved to '''[[Talk:What If? chapters]]'''. To add a new topic regarding the index, [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:What_If?_chapters&action=edit&section=new click here].'' --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 09:15, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

== Removed "Discussion" super-header. ==

I had wondered, as (at that time) you hadn't bothered to remove any of the ''other'' equivalent super-headers. It looked a bit like an accidental select-and-cut, like sometimes editors do, given your actual edit was waaay down the other end of the page. (It was a bit too neat, not like the usual case of somehow snipping off just one of the "="s, make a =="header"== into a ="header="=, effectively, but I've also seen similarly unmessy accidents happen, so your decent tightening up of the whitespace could have just as easily been a part of the same misclicking.)

I did check the companion pages, and they were all happyily as they (once) were. Note that the extra level of header ''does'' have use for (e.g.) putting a similar level of header at the bottom to give Archive, FAQ, etc, sections (not part of the now-top-levelisted points), or even such that we can have "for <foo>, see <otherPortal#section>" to gather things up with less repeats. Not to have their own subheaders (unless they, too, get so large that we have to further split them!), but to be seperate-but-appended like a Transcript (and maybe Trivia) section, regardless of how subheadered an in-depth Explanation gets. If we ever get that (and, really, we could do with a ''lot'' of archival for most of the Community Pages, and maybe some FAQing, for which I ''might'' suggest a subheadering to easily scan for... e.g. ... the situation with the MathML that seems to get revisited more often than not), then we probably need the superheaders back, unless we put messy indented-bullet-trees (at the top? with or without "expand"-hiding?) ''only'' for non-discussion items.

Not that I totally agree that "1.<many...>" (and the occasional "1.<something>.<subsubitem>" was unreadable, either, but ''so long'' as we don't have a further main(ish) header, of equal import, then ''maybe'' it's ok to do it your way. Just it seemed like a big decision to make, to cut out all the (admitedly untaken) options out of the equation. ...And that is a summary of the mental arithmatic whizzing through my head when I had decided (on balance) that you'd probably just made an unknowing misedit that needed bringing back in line with the others. Just to explain the snap decision to undo your 'accident'. Not sure whether you'd been purposefully thinking about it for far longer, of course. Maybe even a couple of minutes! ;) [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.58|172.71.178.58]] 14:53, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

:I totally agree with everything you said! One day I noticed there was a useless superheader at the top which was making the TOC unnecessarily slightly harder to scan through. We should definitely bring it back if someone decides to organise the portals, but I figured since it was untouched for more than a decade, it's likely it won't happen in the near future. There was no need to explain the reasoning behind your revert, but I appreciate you reaching out! --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 16:06, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

==A simple Thank-you==
Thank you so much for expanding my knowledge of xkcd, the wiki, and wikis overall. That user page creation left a bit of a mark on me lol. I have found out that I have reached a high enough level to create user pages. I have created 2 user pages and 2 discussion pages for other worthy members of the community. Thank you for the very helpful advice, and thanks again for providing helpful information from the community. Sincerely, [[User:DollarStoreBa'al|DollarStoreBa'al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al|talk]]) 05:14, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
:No worries! I'm glad we have another active contributor <3   --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 16:09, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
::It's relevant to note that we only create User pages when people explicitly ask for them. On the other hand, '''User talk''' pages are created if you want to talk to that specific member privately. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 16:14, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

== Removing references to order of LiveJournal comics ==

[https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1%3A_Barrel_-_Part_1&type=revision&diff=320394&oldid=320342 But WHY?] 
I'm very unhappy to realize you have deleted my hard work giving people a possibility to click through the first comics in the order they where released on livejournal. I have not checked them all, but I'm not happy that it has been deleted and would like to get it back. Pleas try to explain why you found it a good idea to remove this info from so many comics! I'm quite upset about it at the moment. And since you removed it would like you to restore it if you cannot make me see why! Seems there is also more info I put in that have been deleted? :-( --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 19:31, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

:You are mistaken! I actually liked the idea of browsing the first comics in the original order ''so much'' that I moved it above the explanation! This means it's now much easier to browse them in the correct order, because the user is no longer required to scroll to the bottom of the page: the links are right below the comic.

:I did this for all the 50ish comics. I think you might also have missed the "Original title" and "Original caption" parts of these first comics. In every one of these comics, right under the title (above the image) there's an "Original title". Likewise, below every Title text there's now an "Original caption" part, which contains the LiveJournal caption. See for example comics [[4: Landscape (sketch)]] or [[8: Red spiders]]. I also added a link to the specific LiveJournal post both on the title and caption parts, so users can see them for themselves. Your hard work no longer sits in the hidden Trivia section, but is actually above everything else and easier to read and use!

:I do think it's still not perfect, especially part to browse the comics. I'd like to create a custom template with real buttons (not just links) and an actual explanation of the situation, or maybe integrate it directly into the {{tl|comic}} template. But still, a much better solution than putting everything in the last section! --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:47, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

::I'm sorry for the harsh words. Late that night I realized all my trivia info was deleted (did see the original title text was added), but did not realize that the info was relegated to a more prominent place. So I take back my comment, and instead now thank you for improving my work. Hope you accept this apology from a message written at a bad time. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:58, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

:::Of course! You were very polite. I'm glad you're still active in this wiki :) --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:16, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Me to, so there at least is one active admin. Sadly I'm not very good at the tech stuff a<nd also do not have time to look into all kinds of wiki policies... Glad there are others like you who lift the mantle on those parts. We really need a guy like Davidy... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:12, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

:::::UPDATE: I moved the sentences above the ==Explanation==, so it should now be clearer. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 18:01, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

== Jill's renaming ==

Hi FaviFake 
Just came around to think about the renaming og Science Girl, that I created, to Jill. I really do not like it, and we do not generally give generic figures a name, Megan and Danish the exceptions. And because she is in a comic based on a children song, the name is clearly from the song not because the generic Science Girl is called Jill. Jill is not even used in the comic, only in the title text. You wrote there where no less than three discussions regarding this name change, agreeing with you. But they are not on the talk page of Science Girls page. I'm seriously considering changing it back, so let me know where these discussions are located. I also think it was a mistake to call Danish, Danish, but it beats calling her Black Hats girlfriend. It was just a nickname he used, and they killed the witness as no one must know... But that was done way before I began editing this page. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 16:21, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

:Hey, thanks for your message! I'll respond tomorrow because I don't have time, but for now I just wanted to note somewhere (before I forget) that I looked though all 41 appearances and counted the times where science is the main theme of the comic. The result was that the majority of Jill appearences are not related to science. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 20:07, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

::Well I will have to check that but the first instance was included because it was a girl who where interested in science even though she doesn't look like ScienceGirl. And an adult version of her was included because it was science again. The question is of course if there are now a different girl... But I do not like the naming of her. We did refrain from naming Cueball Rob, and there was also someone who did not like Megan. But that I like now. I prefer keeping Danish, but do not like the reason why she got than name. And other generic characters have been given a name in some comics without we used this. And really feel it is wrong to name her after a children song just because she was in a comic about that song! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:26, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

{{Outdent|::}}
Hey.
And an adult version of her was included because it was science again.
I'm not entirely sure what you're referring to, but this would actually help my case! "Girl" implies she's either a teenager or a child. This means that, if you wanted to broaden her definition to also include "adult versions", you'd have to use another name. Science Woman? Science Female Charachter? I think Jill is better: it sounds like a name a child would have, but doesn't prevent us from giving the name Jill to adult versions. If we change our minds and Jill also becomes a woman, we don't have to remove the "girl" part.

We do not generally give '''generic figures''' a name
But I don't think she's a generic figure. In a bit more than a third of the comic appearences, she's specifically interested in science. This, to me, means she's likely the same person on most of the comics. SHe also has a similar behaviour.

Even if that weren't the case, we would still have to find a name for her that's generic enough, that represents her qualities, AND that's not a proper name. Or, we could just call her what Randall called her, "[[Jill]]". There is precendent on this wiki for giving a name to a character based solely on one instance, where the name wasn't even intended: that's [[Danish]]. Even more: Danish was used by Randall as an adjective, but here Randall gave us a proper name!

There where no less than three discussions regarding this name change, agreeing with you.
I didn't say they agreed with me. There was no consensus on all of them, iirc, mainly because few people partecipated. Yes, I remember they weren't on her talk page, which is weird, but they were somewhere else. I remember they were mostly even.

The first instance was included [...] even though she doesn't look like Science Girl
That specific comic is an exception, in all other comics she has a bun with trailing hair. Randall may have drawn a ponytail because of the limited space. Anyways, as I said, the majority of the comics featuring her aren't mainly about science. (Of course, almost all Randall comics relate to science, but I counted comics where it was intented.)

We did refrain from naming Cueball Rob
That's because there was consensus on the fact that Cueball is an everyman, while Rob is the same charachter.

And really feel it is wrong to name her after a children song just because she was in a comic about that song!
Well that's the only mention of her name we have, even if it's unrelated. I like that she was named after a nursery rhyme, it fits her character, since she's a child.

[...] I really do not like it, [...]

[...] I do not like the naming of her. [...]

[...] There was also someone who did not like Megan. But I like [Megan] now. [...]

[...] I really '''feel''' it is wrong to name her after a children song [...]
I'm starting to see a trend here. Do you think it could be possible you're against the name change because you simply... don’t like how it sounds? I didn't like how "Science Girl" sounded, but that's not why I changed her name...

--[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:34, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks for the reply. Sadly you could not show me any discussion about the name change. Only that you said there where. So that did not help. Yes maybe I used the same wording many time. Also not native English speaker so may have less options to express my meaning... What I do not like about Jill and using that comic to name her, is that I do not think that comic at all is representative of the character I had identified and named Science Girl. But I do agree that if there are several instances where she is represented as an adult it could be a problem. I only new her as adult in [[1520: Degree-Off]] and I can see this has been changes, although I believe this should be reverted as this is not hairbun bu Science Girl. I did not know it had been removed. In this [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1520:_Degree-Off&oldid=123879 version] she was named Science Girl] but it was removed without my knowing. And that she was an adult version was in this [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Jill&oldid=123921 version]. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 16:35, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
::Looking at comics now, and just found this one, without looking for Jill and saw her here: [[2747: Presents for Biologists]]. To me the important thing is the interest in science and that the hairbun is not tight but with strings of hair hanging loose. So maybe the explanation to Jill should be changed to a young woman, often a child with a loose hairbun, not to be3 confused with the generic every woman Hairbun... Then Degree-Off is also clearly Jill. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 17:56, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
{{Outdent|::}}
Also not native English speaker so may have less options to express my meaning
I'm also not a native speaker, I'm Italian! :D I wasn't pointing out your choice of words but rather what you were trying to say, which is (I think?) that you don't like the name. Anyways:

To me the important thing is the interest in science [...] So maybe the explanation to Jill should be changed to a young woman [...]
It seems your opinion has changed completely then! This is what [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Jill&oldid=123921 you wrote] about [[Hairbun]] before I joined this wiki:
''Since she [Hairbun] is a '''grown woman''', she should not be confused with Science Girl or any other '''small girls''' with hair bun like in [[1584: Moments of Inspiration]].''
According to this logic in this comic:
* [[1520: Degree-Off]] - taller than other woman and man, so a woman → '''not Jill'''
* [[2747: Presents for Biologists]] - as tall as other woman and man, so a woman → '''not Jill'''

Also, this would mean we'd have to rename Jill to someone else in a third or a fourth of her appearences.

But I do agree that if there are several instances where she is represented as an adult it could be a problem
I agree! If there's one thing that I think everyone can agreen on is that we shoudn't call a grown woman a "girl". And "Science Woman" sounds like a superhero.

So, to avoid naming Hairbun '''based on how she looks''' and Jill '''based on her displayed interest''' (I'll remind you, you said in Hairbun's page that this is Hairbun:)
[[File:Hair Bun Girl with curly hair and ponytail.png]]

...all i did was standardise the matter:
*'''Jill is a child OR girl that always has trailing hair''' (except 1 comic), and
*'''Hairbun is an adult that sometimes has trailing hair.'''

I think any other definition would be incredibly confusing. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 16:03, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
:Well I originally put in degree off as Science Girl as she both looked and behaved like Science Girl. So I may have changed my mind. Cannot find the picture you said that I said was Hairbun? Maybe it was from before I introduced Science Girl. I have created both of these characters and then others have changed the explanation and the name. I also called her [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Hairbun&oldid=88388 Hair Bun Girl], which I can now see it wrong since she was a woman, but again, not native English. Here is my first creation of [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Jill&oldid=123862 Science Girl]. There where more than a year between, so maybe I changed my mind regarding which could be hairbun in between? I'm certainly more interested in having those characters with hairbun and dangling hair to be another than normal hairbun now. And would today have collected those that looks like that together. Also there are many instances of Jill where she do not have a speaking part, thus saying she is always interested in science doesn't fit with how she is listed now... It is difficult. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:57, 2 April 2025 (UTC)

::Oh yeah that makes sense, I didn't consider the fact that Science Jirl was created possibly years after Hairbun. I'm not sure I understood your last sentence, about Jill not speaking? --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 14:26, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
:::I think only a year after. But still. I meant that there are several instances with Jill where she do not have a speaking part in the comic, and thus cannot be said to have a special interest in science or her sharp wit. So if science should be her main indicator then she has to say something. But I do not really know how to make this as best as it could be. (Science Jirl, Jirl a combination of Jill and Girl ;-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:46, 4 April 2025 (UTC)

::::It'd be so funny if we settled on Science Jirl haha. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:10, 4 April 2025 (UTC)

== As I can't edit it... ==

Regarding the Editor FAQ:
For headlines, you have to use wiki-style code. The simplest way is a preceding semicolon at the beginning of the line which causes the entire line to be rendered in bold.
...I might be tempted to say something like "This makes use of {{w|Help:Wikitext#Description_lists|Description List}} markup", given how there are circumstances when a ";something:fuller description of something" is also actually useful. And then go on to say something about how this is functionally simpler than the actual (sub-)header use of =s, ==s, ===s, etc, (which you'd be advised to check what 'level' of (sub-)header you're already working in and go for the next level on from that) and would the usually be recorded in a Table Of Contents of either the page concerned or any page which it is transcluded within.

Except that we're going into really ''technical'' territory with the latter bit. Generally, ==s are for Explanation, Transcript, Trivia headers in comics, you could say. (The reason being is that the Main Page has a single-= header under which the Latest Comic is transcluded and so ==s are best to be inherited as transient sub-headers - but you don't need to say that... it's just an obvious reasong behind the stylistic decision.) Headering a section other than these, in a comic (such as a place for a Table Of Things, or similar) would generally be ===ed (or, rarely, ====ed, as a sub-sub-header of the Explanation/whatever). It is best to avoid any ===+ing at all in the Comic Talk page because, if the Comic page itself gets a TOC (some do, most don't, but all ''potentially'' could) then the transcluded Discussion gets (probably!) inadvertently and improperly added in. (You can force a NOTOC, and some other tricks, but I've never been able to find a NOTOCIFTRANSCLUDED-like thing, not without peppering noinclude sections around section headers, which is... getting ''far'' too complicated.) So, just saying "Don't use '==...'s in Talk Pages, stick to ';'s..." (even without the reasoning) might be an advisable statement.

Yeah, I'm giving you a lot of stuff here (I think you know all of it, actually), hopefully you can tease out some of the bits actually useful to suggest in the FAQ. :P [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.164|172.68.205.164]] 21:52, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

Darnit, also meant to add that in the {{template|Citation needed}} explanation you wrote, could you change {{template|actual citation needed}} to {{template|Actual citation needed}}? The latter is the actual template, the former is just a redirect. No harm in ''using'' the redirect-needing ones (generally), but you might as well advertise the correct ones. Like you don't advertise {{template|cn}} or {{template|fact}} (both ->{{template|Citation needed}}, as are {{template|citation needed}}, {{template|Citation Needed}} and other case-accomadating variations), though people still are able to use them. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.164|172.68.205.164]] 21:58, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

:Sorry but you're gonna have to give me exactly what you want me to paste in the article, I haven't understood a word of what you said. I changed the actual cit needed thinghy--[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 09:45, 12 April 2025 (UTC)

==User page creation==
I just wanted to say thanks again for making my user page! --[[User:Xnerkcd|xnerkcd]] ([[User talk:Xnerkcd|talk]]) 17:38, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
:No worries! --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 18:22, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

==Admin==
What does an admin do? Are they just the people that can create pages?
:Not an admin, but they basically manage the wiki state-of-affairs and oversee day-to-day operation. Basically, a stepup from typical moderators. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.208.206|172.69.208.206]]
::I guess that's what they're ''supposed'' to do. Because of the status quo, they just sometimes pop back in and do stuff we can't. We can however create pages ourselves. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:46, 15 April 2025 (UTC)

== A Barnstar For You :3 ==

{| style="border: 1px solid {{{border|gray}}}; background-color: {{{color|#fdffe7}}};"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:top;" | {{#ifeq:{{{2|}}}|alt|[[File:Blueprint Barnstar 3.PNG|100px|border]]|[[File:Blueprint Barnstar 2.PNG|100px|border]]}}
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: bottom; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Template Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: top; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | Thanks for all of your work on improving the templates on here! '''[[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]][[User talk:42.book.addict|Talk to me!]]''' 20:01, 18 April 2025 (UTC)
|}
:Thanks so much! But [[User:Firestar233]] definitely deserves that award more than I do! He created the templates for the what if? index that are still incredibly useful! --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 20:31, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

==Restructuring [[Header text]] as a table==

"yeah, best not suggest that..." - 162.158.216.41

"Nobody is ever going to do that by hand." - FaviFake

Let's just say.... [[Countdown in header text]] was just a warm-up.

bet. [[User:DollarStoreBa'al|DollarStoreBa'al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al|talk]]) 21:00, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
:Oh jeez no way. No way man. That'd be incredible. And insane. hahaha
:But seriously, if you really want to do this, feel free to shoot me a message! [[Header text]] is a huge beast, and I think we could even redesign it completely like what if. Imagine a huge table, sortable by date, comic number, alphabetical order of header text, with a ton of templates to manage...
:Ok the last one isn't tempting. But seriously we could turn it into the most beautiful list of header texts the world has ever seen! I'm already excited! --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 21:12, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
::I already got the first header text done! The table idea sounds super fun though. I'm on board. [[User:DollarStoreBa'al|DollarStoreBa'al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al|talk]]) 21:16, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Shoot you were so fast i didn't even see it! Ok we need to seriously think about it now. A few questions come to mind:
:::#How many columns (date, ? What are all the possible things we can display in a useful way that are common to every header text?
:::##How do we handle the section titles? We should definitely use a template to keep the <nowiki>[[#Anchor links]]</nowiki>, but should we keep the ad-hoc section titles?
:::#How many tables? Two tables for comic specific and general changes, or just 1 mega table?
:::#We definitely need a template to mimic the all caps font that Randall uses. Ideas for what else it could do (like contain parts of the table code, color the cell background...)?
:::#Would it be useful if some columns were color-coded? Like on what if? ("back to standard text", "what if promotion", "xkcd store updates", ...)?
:::I have so many questions! If anyone who's reading or watchlisted this talk page wants to chime in and suggest anything at all please do! I'll go sleep now, I guess we'll organise tomorrow? --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 21:38, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

::::Sounds good. Date as a column probably won't work because of stuff like permanence. 'Timeframe'(e.g. temporary/permanent) could work though. I guess it could look something like this for comic-specific:
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Comic !! Timeframe !! Header text !! Explanation !! Purpose
|}
::::And this could be used for the global headers:
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Date !! Header text !! Explanation !! Purpose
|}

::::I think we should do two tables, with a small blurb before each one explaining what 'comic-specific' means. For the global header text, 'timeframe' could be replaced with 'date'. Color-sorting does sound good (that would be what the column 'purpose' does).
::::'comic' would just be like '2916: Machine'. 'Header text' is just what the text says. 'Explanation' is self-explanatory. 'Purpose' documents the reason.
::::For the color codes, we could do 'book promotion', 'Store updates', 'Credits' (e.g. The supporter credits on the April Fools' Comics), maybe fundraisers, he's done those.
::::I made a test table, with most of the wikitext taken from the what if chapters table and the help:table article on Wikipedia [[Testing area | here]]
::::Have a good night! [[User:DollarStoreBa'al|DollarStoreBa'al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al|talk]]) 22:23, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

::::Oh and also I got another one done heehee [[User:DollarStoreBa'al|DollarStoreBa'al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al|talk]]) 22:27, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

::::Nummer tree dun. I made a little test table so we can experiment with it without putting it on the actual page ([[Testing area | over here!]][[User:DollarStoreBa'al|DollarStoreBa'al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al|talk]]) 15:55, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

:::::Hey this is great! I'll reply tomorrow cuz I don't have time now but it seems to me you might be deleting some stuff that's actually worth keeping. For example, in [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Header_text&diff=next&oldid=374464 this] and [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Header_text&diff=prev&oldid=374464 this edit] I thought most of the info you removed could be useful. But as i said i don't have much time, I'll read and reply tomorrow. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 16:19, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::Yeah these columns sound good! We could also add "Comic" to the global one, to mark which comic was up when it changed. We should definitely use a template for Comic, so we can link to the explanation, create an automatic #Anchor link tag, and also link to xkcd.com to view the header. It could be the same template, and the first parameter switches between the "global header text" (1) and the "comic-specific header text" (2) modes.
::::::I'm however more and more concerned with the amout of time it would take to rewrite EVERYTHING. If the main goal is to make this easy to visualise and to sort, I think the best way to do it would be to fill these columns with the info, and keep the original text that Kynde wrote. We could simply erase all bullet points automatically and make it look like a normal paragraph, even if it isn't coherent. We will worry about that later, if we even manage to do the former. Does this sound good Dollar?
::::::I removed the rewritten ones and moved them to the testing page to avoid losing info. If we want to do what we did for what if?, we have to use another page until it's ready. I told Kynde about this page to let her know, since she's the main contributor on [[Header text]]. Here's what I imagine it could look like:

::::::This would be for '''comic-specific''':
{| class="sortable wikitable"
! rowspan="2" scope="col" data-sort-type=number | Comic
! rowspan="2" scope="col" class="unsortable" | Timeframe
! rowspan="2" scope="col" data-sort-type=text | Header text
! rowspan="2" scope="col" class="unsortable" | Explanation
! colspan="4"| Purpose
|-
! scope="col" data-sort-type=number | Book Promotion
! scope="col" data-sort-type=number | Store Promotion
! scope="col" data-sort-type=number | Credits
! scope="col" data-sort-type=number | Fundraiser
|-
| [[472: House of Pancakes]] {{xkcd|472|''(View the header text on xkcd.com)''}} || Permanent || (Today's comic is a parody of '''[https://www.amazon.com/House-Leaves-Mark-Z-Danielewski/dp/0375703764 House of Leaves]'''.) || This comic's header notes its status as a parody. Only on the days this comic was the newest was this header featured on the front page of xkcd for instance as seen here the day after release on [https://web.archive.org/web/20080906103932/http://www.xkcd.com/ 2008-09-06]. But it was only on this comic. The commercial for his new t-shirt was on all the other pages, also on [https://web.archive.org/web/20080906103932/http://www.xkcd.com/ 2008-09-06] and presumably returned to the front page with the next comic. But there is a gap in the archive after this comic.|| || || {{Yes}} ||
|}

::::::And this could be used for the '''global headers''':
This is for comic-specific:
{| class="sortable wikitable"
! rowspan="2" scope="col" class="unsortable" | Appeared on...
! rowspan="2" scope="col" data-sort-type=number | Comic
! rowspan="2" scope="col" data-sort-type=text | Header text
! rowspan="2" scope="col" class="unsortable" | Explanation
! colspan="4"| Purpose
|-
! scope="col" data-sort-type=number | Book Promotion
! scope="col" data-sort-type=number | Store Promotion
! scope="col" data-sort-type=number | Credits
! scope="col" data-sort-type=number | Fundraiser
|-
|| 01-01-2009 || {{xkcd|472|''View archived page of the header text''}} (This global header appeared while [[123: Example comic]] was up.) || Hey all, the new tshirts at the example [[Store|xkcd store]] are now available! || This comic's header notes its status as a parody. Only on the days this comic was the newest was this header featured on the front page of xkcd for instance as seen here the day after release on [https://web.archive.org/web/20080906103932/http://www.xkcd.com/ 2008-09-06]. But it was only on this comic. The commercial for his new t-shirt was on all the other pages, also on [https://web.archive.org/web/20080906103932/http://www.xkcd.com/ 2008-09-06] and presumably returned to the front page with the next comic. But there is a gap in the archive after this comic.|| || {{Yes}} || ||
|}

::::::The first 3 collumns (except Timeframe and Appeared on) would use a custom-made template which would only need (1) the number: Name of the comic and (2) the header text to make it look all caps. Thoughts?--[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:42, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

:::::::This looks great! Good job with the font, looks incredible! It does seem to me that maybe we could shorten the 'purpose' category into one column, with different fill colors for different purposes. That way, the cell would contain the purpose instead of the word 'yes'. Also, the purpose would be in the cell instead of the headers. The tables are super long, especially with global headers, so the purpose being there would prevent people from needing to scroll all the way to the top to figure out which category it is. [[User:DollarStoreBa'al|DollarStoreBa'al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al|talk]]) 15:55, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

::::::::Yeah you're right that'd be too long. But if we do that idk how people will be able to sort tha table? Is there a better way that keeps sorting and is compact? --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 17:08, 24 April 2025 (UTC)]

::::::::I wonder if there's a way to sort by color? That way they could sort by book promotion/store promotion etc. first? [[User:DollarStoreBa'al|DollarStoreBa'al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al|talk]]) 17:24, 24 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::You can't sort by non-content formatting of any kind ''per se'', but if you use [https://m.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Sortable_tables#Specifying_a_sort_key a data-sort-value=] alongside the cell's pre-content formatting, associated to it either by (careful) manual matching or by the same procedural method that procedurally set the background hue, then that column can be made to sort ''as if'' by colour. e.g., whatever makes a cell red also gives it <code>data-sort-value=0</code>, whatever makes it green gives <code>=1</code>, etc. (Though would be good to further refine the value, in such a case, to be integer+decimals, such that the decimals produce a further logical sorting ''within'' any given run of hue, if that is in any way more logical than not worrying about it.) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.130|141.101.99.130]] 17:58, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

::::::::Alternatively, we could make it so everything is shown in one unsortable column, but it could expand into multiple sortable columns like the graphs you made. I will also say that I absolutely suck at basi--[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 10:01, 25 April 2025 (UTC)cally any wikitext more advanced than creating a table. This is the reason it depends whether I do the repetitive work. [[User:DollarStoreBa'al|DollarStoreBa'al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al|talk]]) 17:28, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

::::::::I'm gonna start to bring explanations over and add them to the table on the sandbox page. The project continues! --[[User:DollarStoreBa'al |DollarStoreBa'al]][[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al | Converse]] 18:57, 24 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Oh ok you're just going for it! I wanted to make sure everything was ready and decided before starting, just so we don't have to lose our work if we change our minds later! For example, I'm not really sure what "permanent" and temporary means for the comic specific?
:::::::::Also, I thought of something for the sorting of purpose. We could use extremely narrow columns, just one letter, and also colorthe cell? And for clarity we could say "C<nowiki> </nowiki>R" instead of the full "credits" to avoid wasting space? Like the one in [[1608:_Hoverboard#Table_with_references]]? --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 20:53, 24 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::'Permanent' basically just means that the header text has always been there since the comic's release, while 'temporary' means that the header text was only up for a shorter period of time before being replaced by a typical header. I think the narrow columns are a good idea, but I don't really see where they would be used. --[[User:DollarStoreBa'al |DollarStoreBa'al]][[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al | Converse]][https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Special:Contributions/DollarStoreBa%27al My life choices] 03:38, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
{{Outdent|::::::::::}}
Hmm.

> ''Permanent' basically just means that the header text has always been there since the comic's release.

This i understand; makes sense! Maybe could be reworded.

> ''temporary' means that the header text was only up for a shorter period of time before being replaced by a typical header.

I'm not sure I understand this? Don't comic-specific header texts (let's call them CS from now on) never expire? I thought they overrode the global headers (GL).

Anyways, still awaiting input from Kynde on this. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 10:02, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

:Hi... Was alerted to this by FaviFake.
:Yes it is my baby, anything with the design of the xkcd page was made by me to begin with. And I have done a huge job finding the different regular header text in the archive.
:I do think a table could be good. However, the current version means you have a chance of jumping to a specific header just by looking in the TOC. A table would make this very difficult. Also there are quite a lot of info for some of these header text, and it could be hard to get into the table.
:I have also done quite a lot to make a transcript with descriptions of images etc. And would hate to see that go for a table. And it will fill quite a lot in the table.
:I certainly think the permanent header text should have their own section. Question is if they should have their own page. So there is Header Text (the current page) with a link to a new page with Permanent Header texts.
:Not sure there are many individual header text that was not permanent. So I think the permanent column is not needed, especially since I do not think we should mix the permanent with the real header text! But I still think a table of the permanent should have a date, the day they first appeared. And in a table this would be useful to sort in the order they came out.
:For the not permanent I think there should also be a end date. From date and end date. Maybe a duration calculated from this.
:Not quite sure what we would sort on... But if it should be sort-able, then the last column with purpose, could just be a single word, so you can sort on Store, Promotion, etc. Then it would only take up one short column.
:I'm not going to help with the actual work of moving to a table. But if you manage to do it in a smooth way that do not loose all the information I have gathered and the transcripts I have made, then go for it. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:47, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

::''(i wrote this response before Dollar and IP commented.)''
::Thank you!
::> ''The current version means you have a chance of jumping to a specific header just by looking in the TOC. A table would make this very difficult.
::This is true, but this can easily be fixed using a template. For example, if you go to [[What If? chapters#123]] right now, the link will bring you directly to the table row for #123, even though there isn't a heading! The same is true if you use the name of the article, like [[What If? chapters#Cassini]] brings you to "Cassini". The only downside is that we would have to manually keep the TOC up-to-date (or maybe there could be a way to automate that too? But i doubt it.)

::>'' I have also done quite a lot to make a transcript with descriptions of images etc. And would hate to see that go for a table.
::Yeah that would definitely not be removed. We can either add the transcript at the bottom of the explanation or make another column, it depends on how many headers have a transcript, I haven't looked.

::>'' I certainly think the permanent header text should have their own section.
::>'' I think the permanent column is not needed
::>'' But I still think a table of the permanent should have a date, the day they first appeared. And in a table this would be useful to sort in the order they came out.
::1: Agree, 2: agree, and 3: defintely! Luckily the way you formatted the dates (YYYY-MM-DD) is already perfect for sorting, and they're already hyperlinked too!
::> ''For the not permanent I think there should also be a end date. From date and end date. Maybe a duration calculated from this.
::Yeah I had forgotten about this! The <nowiki>{{date}}</nowiki> template could look something like this:
{| class="sortable wikitable"
!Date
|-
|From [https://web.archive.org/web/20140723180600/https://xkcd.com/ 2014-07-23] (during [[1398: Snake Facts]]) until [https://web.archive.org/web/20140901113916/https://xkcd.com/ 2014-09-01] (during [[1415: Ballooning]])
|}

::> ''But if it should be sort-able, then the last column with purpose, could just be a single word, so you can sort on Store, Promotion, etc. Then it would only take up one short column.
::Yeah you're right, I think we might end up going for this. As you said, we should give the explanation enough space.

::> ''But if you manage to do it in a smooth way that do not loose all the information I have gathered and the transcripts I have made, then go for it.
::Thank you! As I said previously, I wanted to shift the focus from removing the bullet points to reorganising the info and leaving the existing te there for now:
:::''"If the main goal is to make this easy to visualise and to sort, I think the best way to do it would be to fill these columns with the info, and keep the original text that Kynde wrote. We could simply erase all bullet points automatically and make it look like a normal paragraph, even if it isn't coherent. We will worry about that later, if we even manage to do the former."''

::So i guess this is the new proposed design?

:::::: '''Comic-specific''': ''(updated by FaviFake on 21:54, 25 April 2025 (UTC) with suggestion from Kynde below)''

{| class="sortable wikitable"
! scope="col" data-sort-type="number" |Date & Comic
! scope="col" data-sort-type="text" |Header text
! scope="col" class="unsortable" |Explanation
!Purpose
|-
|[https://web.archive.org/web/20080906103932/http://www.xkcd.com/ 2008-09-06]
[[472: House of Pancakes]]
{{xkcd|472|''(View the header text on xkcd.com)''}}
|(Today's comic is a parody of '''[https://www.amazon.com/House-Leaves-Mark-Z-Danielewski/dp/0375703764 House of Leaves]'''.)
|This comic's header notes its status as a parody. Only on the days this comic was the newest was this header featured on the front page of xkcd for instance as seen here the day after release on [https://web.archive.org/web/20080906103932/http://www.xkcd.com/ 2008-09-06]. But it was only on this comic. The commercial for his new t-shirt was on all the other pages, also on [https://web.archive.org/web/20080906103932/http://www.xkcd.com/ 2008-09-06] and presumably returned to the front page with the next comic. But there is a gap in the archive after this comic.
|style="background-color: #aa55a5;" | Credits
|}

:::::: '''Global headers''': ''(updated by FaviFake on 21:54, 25 April 2025 (UTC) with suggestion from Kynde below)''

{| class="sortable wikitable"
! Date & Comic
! scope="col" data-sort-type="text" |Header text
! scope="col" class="unsortable" |Explanation
! scope="col" data-sort-type="number" | Purpose
|-
|From [https://web.archive.org/web/20140723180600/https://xkcd.com/ 2014-07-23] {{nowrap|(during [[1398: Snake Facts]])}} until [https://web.archive.org/web/20140901113916/https://xkcd.com/ 2014-09-01] (during [[1415: Ballooning]])
|Hey all, the new tshirts at the example [[Store|xkcd store]] are now available!
|This comic's header notes its status as a parody. Only on the days this comic was the newest was this header featured on the front page of xkcd for instance as seen here the day after release on [https://web.archive.org/web/20080906103932/http://www.xkcd.com/ 2008-09-06]. But it was only on this comic. The commercial for his new t-shirt was on all the other pages, also on [https://web.archive.org/web/20080906103932/http://www.xkcd.com/ 2008-09-06] and presumably returned to the front page with the next comic. But there is a gap in the archive after this comic.
|style="background-color: #ccffcc;" |Store promotion
|}

::We could add a number column to show how many times it has changed?--[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 14:07, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
:::I reply here to the above. It is very difficult to find out what I was replying to if I put it in ath the end. The next message and many below written before this:
:::I like the idea from you table. But you missed the release date on the permanent. Still think that is important.
:::I was also thinking of two columns for start and end, but your idea my be fine. Could it be easy to add the number of days the header have been up then?
:::What will the number represent? We do not have the first, and we do not have the last... Unless it is automatic numbering, so the newest is number 1 and the rest gets higher automatic, like in a bullet list, I think it will make no sense?
:::My input to the above --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:27, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

::::Don't worry, this page is already a mess. Yes, I forgot the release date! I guess we'll put it above the comic in the column "Comic", since the order is the same if we sort by date or by comic number. I also thought about two columns for start and end, but I figured it wouldn't really make sense because the sorting would be the same. Plus, by using just one column we save horizontal space! We can definitely add the duration, that'll be another parameter in the template.
::::Yeah you have a good point, the number column wouldn't make sense. I removed it. But we might need another column: where do we put the current heading that appear in the TOC? Should we add another column? If so, where would we put that column? I hadn't thought about this. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 21:54, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Not always the same with number vs date, as at least one of the comics did not get the permanent text when released. But it may not be that important.
:::::Yes what to do for the heading I have given the different headers...? The number you suggested may not have worked, but in the header bullet lidt it is nice to be able to see there are 110 (3 of which are placeholders, so 107 changes documented) and also the number of permanent individial headers. (23). That info would be lost in a table. I think it is not possible to move into a table without loosing info. Also it will be much more difficult to add new info, as you have to edit the whole table, rater than now, just the post above or below the one you wish to enter a new header. It would be a massive page to edit. I know it is nice to be able to sort, but it will be difficult or even impossible for someone to add new thing to it... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 16:53, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

::::::Yes, as I said we would have to update the TOC manually, but it would still be these in some form. We would simply use # to create a numbered list, which would keep the number of total headers. So it wouldn't be lost. Also, editing the table wouldn't be that difficult in my opinion, you'd just have to fill the templates, something like this:

! Special 10th anniversary edition of WHAT IF? - preorder

| <nowiki>{{Date| 2024-05-15 | 2933: Elementary Physics Paths | 2024-10-15 | 2998: Ravioli-Shaped Objects}}</nowiki>

| {{Header text| Special 10th anniversary edition of WHAT IF?—revised and annotated with brand-new illustrations and answers to important questions. Preorder now!

| The first link goes to the page for the what if? book on xkcd and the other link is to the HarperCollins page for the 10th anniversary edition of the book, rest of the explanation...

|<nowiki> {{What If promotion}}</nowiki>

::::::Also, I just realised we could just put the title you gave in the very first column, before the date! --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 10:20, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

::You do have a good point there. Actually, all of these are good points. Maybe we could take out the 'timeframe' column for the CS table and replace it with 'start and end date' for the GL table. --[[User:DollarStoreBa'al |DollarStoreBa'al]][[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al | Converse]][https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Special:Contributions/DollarStoreBa%27al My life choices] 13:43, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

::Not that I'm taking any part in this conversion (excelt for giving ideas, when they occur to me), but how about: Table has one (small) column contents act as an #anchor-link to the appropriate extended header-defined information below. The beauty (YMMV) of the tabular/sortable overview being developed whilst retaining the table-incompatible "long descriptive" bits (perhaps with a similar back-anchor to the table-rows so that a minimal amount of table-worthy detail need be included in the long-header.
::And though that ''could'' be done with "[a], [b], [c]" or "[n1], [n2], [n3]" inbuilt wiki-references, I think maybe just plain <code><nowiki>[[#itemFoo|Foo]]</nowiki></code> sort of thing for the Comic or Purpose cell contents. If that works well within a collapsing text area, that might make it available (but not obtrusive to the casual view). Or perhaps send it to a <code>Header text/fuller descriptions]]</code>-ish new sub-page.
::This ''does'' mean a bit more to remember if updating with new instances (add 'line' to table ''and'' add at least a placeholder into the headered paragraphs, not just one or the other) but that much might be made more obvious as a reminder (to those who 'know') or a guide (to newer editors) by a commented out row+paragraph template at the end of each.
::Or is it unfair of me to complicate things further by essentially suggesting both approaches to be carried forward..? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.186|172.70.85.186]] 14:01, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

:::Sorry but I didn't understand any of that. What are you suggesting? For the missing TOC problem, I thought we would solve it by using a template to create an HTML anchor, and then manually creating the TOC. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 14:11, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Do you need it explained longer, or shorter..?
::::Trying (mostly) shorter: Retain "TOC"ed version (additional: though not ''necessarily'' still TOCed, could be redone as ";"ed, instead of "==...=="ed — we don't need any TOC list, 'cos the table will do that), but without most of the repeating short info you're putting into the table. Don't have huge "Details" column, just bare bones. But #anchor-link each entry to the longer-form original sections in their more prosaic forms. So you've a table that's not too busy, but all the hard-won case study info is also elsewhere, just not clogging up the table itself.
::::The rest of what I said was a lot of optional mini-variations of this general idea. Because TIMTOWTDI. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.34|141.101.98.34]] 16:32, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

::::: Now I understand! Usually a good way to read your comments is to just mentally remove all parenthesis, but it didn't work this time. I don't really think the text is so much that we have to link to it? The example above is the average length (is much shorter when you remove the bullet points), and it doesn't seem to take up much space.

::::: Sounds pretty good! I'm just going to continue getting more texts summarized and ported over to the sandbox, because I have no idea how to use wikitext more advanced than tables and <nowiki><nowiki></nowiki> and <nowiki></nowiki>. I am trying to learn <nowiki></nowiki> though. --[[User:DollarStoreBa'al |DollarStoreBa'al]][[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al | Converse]][https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Special:Contributions/DollarStoreBa%27al My life choices] 17:23, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

:::::: Wait, I thought we were ''not'' doing that? I wrote the message below and I thought you agreed, but I must've misread your response. Here's the relevant part:
::::::: ''"I'm however more and more concerned with the amout of time it would take to rewrite EVERYTHING. If the main goal is to make this easy to visualise and read (and to sort, as a bonus), I think the best way to do it would be to fill these columns with the info, and keep the original text that Kynde wrote. We could simply erase all bullet points automatically and make it look like a normal paragraph, even if it isn't coherent. We will worry about that later, if we even manage to do the former."
::::::In short, I think we would make the page much more useful if, instead of using grammatically correct sentences, we simply reorganised it and chenged how it looks. I think this is a huge enough task already, and I think it would benefit the wiki more than rewriting everything. Thoughts? --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 18:43, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::To be clear, I already have a perfectly good way of removing all bullet points in less than a minute. The downside is, of course, that the paragraphs would be impossible to read: not because the sentences aren't coherent but because they're not organised. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 18:45, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

{{Outdent|:::::::}}

{{Header text|I've created a template that makes any text look like a header text, to kickstart the project. It's called {{tl|Header text}}. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:45, 28 April 2025 (UTC)}}

== i hope you Please Don't Delete [[User talk:物灵]]. ==

He'll come back. {{unsigned|Translated ORK|09:56, 29 April 2025}}

Talk:3081: PhD Timeline

2025-04-28T08:27:45Z

172.71.26.100:

<noinclude>{{notice|This comic is about present-day politics and the {{w|Second presidency of Donald Trump|Trump administration}}. Additionally, the comic is about a controversial immigration-related action taken by said administration. Please {{w|WP:DFTT|don’t feed the trolls}}: don’t give recognition or respond to trolls or vandals. If you find vandalism, revert and move on. If the vandal is a registered user, {{w|WP:RBI|revert, block, and ignore}}. As with these contentious topics, please don't write in a biased and slanted manner. Always be considerate of the other side, don’t {{w|WP:CIVIL|attack people}}, and always {{w|WP:AGF|assume good faith}}. (In case you need assistance in blocking a vandal, message [[User talk:Kynde|Kynde]].)}}</noinclude>

What an age we live in... --[[User:DollarStoreBa'al |DollarStoreBa'al]][[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al | Converse]][https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Special:Contributions/DollarStoreBa%27al My life choices] 15:48, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
:[https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/25/politics/fbi-director-wisconsin-judge-arrested/index.html It only gets rougher... ] It's enough to radicalize a person. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.65.187|172.69.65.187]] 16:09, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
:When even Randall starts freaking out, it usually indicates the most entertaining timeline. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.245.161|162.158.245.161]] 00:58, 26 April 2025 (UTC)
:: I will only grant this only if we have a happy outcome for all the people already damaged by your current government. I look forward to Nazis getting punched and the Ark of the Covenant being opened [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 14:17, 26 April 2025 (UTC)
::: Pretty sure this ''is'' a happy outcome for everyone who voted for this. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.159.201|172.68.159.201]] 21:29, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Events like this are scary, and they're even scarier if you have a personal or geographic connection to them like Randall does. I can understand why he would feel frustrated about his inability to do something concrete, and if this comic raises awareness for the situation then it has done a good thing. Not sure why I thought this comment was necessary; maybe it's just a way of processing the emotions that the comic made me feel. [[User:Dextrous Fred|Dextrous Fred]] ([[User talk:Dextrous Fred|talk]]) 15:49, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
: Agree, those of us that are non-US look to the US to uphold human rights. Very sad. [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 14:17, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

I dont want to start an argument, but I am glad Randall Munroe is making a specific, reasonable point. A lot of times I see people saying either "there is no antisemitism on campus, nobody should ever get deported, ACTUAL terrorists should get green cards", and others say "EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME SHOULD GET DEPORTED, EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME IS A TERRORIST." I think both of them are extreme points obviously, and I am glad Randall is just taking the side, for now, of "this specific person did not violate their green card visa."
:''"...EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME IS A TERRORIST."'' That are literally the words that a Trump official was reported to have said. If you protest the actions they take against anyone they label as a terrorit, YOU will be treated as a supporter of terrorism. [[User:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For|These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For]] ([[User talk:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For|talk]]) 23:32, 26 April 2025 (UTC)
:Hi, expert-on-the-Öztürk-case but not-an-immigration-expert-really here. For clarity, Öztürk held an F-1 student visa but was not a lawful permanent resident (LPR) (green card holder), unlike the similar case of Mahmoud Khalil (Columbia university) who was a green card holder. And "green card visa" is not a thing, there's a "green card," which you cannot "violate" (although you could commit crimes that might have consequences for your LPR status), and you generally don't hear "violate their visa" although it's true that a visa is related to and may restrict that work you can do in the country. Regardless, no allegations have been made that Öztürk violated anything laws or rules or did anything other than lend her name to speech in a newspaper. [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 22:51, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
::Yes thank you johnhawkinson. I do not know the terminology. Ozturk did not, to my knowledge, violate any laws or rules. Thank you to the clarification.[[User:Tzelofachad|Tzelofachad]] ([[User talk:Tzelofachad|talk]]) 15:25, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
::as always, based randall, at least for now. [[User:Tzelofachad|Tzelofachad]] ([[User talk:Tzelofachad|talk]]) 16:04, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Did you mean "biased"? [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 16:31, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Did you mean "biased towards due process?" [[User:CharlesT|Nyrrix]] ([[User talk:CharlesT|talk]]) 16:51, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
::::It's probably "based", as that's a term that can either be used in support or mockery of a philosophical position (because of Poe's Law, hard to know which in most cases, including here). It's more usually used in 4chan-like responses (and I doubt Randall would be considered "based" in those other places) than hereabouts, so perhaps it needs some clarification for those not (or not enough) in that sort of crame of mind. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.94|141.101.99.94]] 17:06, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Yes I meant based. I know it is often used in a different space. I meant it in a [Satirical yet Agreeing while in a ironic mode of understanding that nothing is as it seems, but still definitely complimentary] mode. Basically, I agree with this and it is good[[User:Tzelofachad|Tzelofachad]] ([[User talk:Tzelofachad|talk]]) 15:25, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::Yes, Randall Munroe clearly only cares about this one incident because he does not at all care about politics. He's definitely not using this as an illustrative case on the countless other identical incidents happening under the Trump administration. /s /s /s /s /s. [[User:DrMeepster|'''Dr.'''Meepster]] (<[[User_talk:DrMeepster|chat]]> • <[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit}} reply]>) 16:53, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Yes, Randall is currently calling out this one incident, and while he is obviously also disagreeing with many other incidents that have happened and will happen, he is not overgeneralising any specific criticism to every case. For instance, if he said "nobody who was deported has done anything wrong" i would disagree. He said "Ozturk did not do anything wrong" which i agree with. Sorry for the misunderstanding![[User:Tzelofachad|Tzelofachad]] ([[User talk:Tzelofachad|talk]]) 15:25, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

I really hope this is one of those comics that does NOT stand the test of time. In other words, I hope the next generation of graduate students sees this and thinks "oh, that must've been written in 2025, we don't have to worry about those kinds of things anymore." Perhaps "hope" isn't the right word, it implies I have hope. Maybe "pray fervently" is the right phrase. Sigh. [[Special:Contributions/198.41.227.72|198.41.227.72]] 16:30, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
:Sure ... "Oh, that was before third world war, we don't have to worry about those kinds of things anymore." -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 00:08, 26 April 2025 (UTC)
:We can go back to considering how the Ph.D. became a participation trophy for the financial benefit of the awarding institution - and, in the sciences, a source of slave labor. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.146.61|172.71.146.61]] 01:51, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

How do we edit the Categories? This should have category Politics. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 16:31, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
:Usually, once at least one other category (not created from templates like {{template|comic}}) you can edit the page and see the other cat(s) at the bottom, beyond the comic-discussion template. Or edit the Transcript section (or any Trivia one, whatever's the last one) as that'll also have the tail-end of the page. So long as you know there's a category "Foo", you should be able to work out how to add "Category:Foo".
:But don't add Foo if it doesn't exist, hoping that someone will tire of the redlink that's created. You may be wrong about it needing to exist, or miss the ''actual'' "Category:comics featuring Foo", and unless someone is feeling generous it's possible that your edit just gets reverted as not properly researched, or checked... I ''think'' there actually is a Politics category, by that name, but I'm trying to answer the general question, not yet going out there to look it up for certain (at which point, I may have just added it myself, making it useless to have explained how you could 'easily' do it... At least in this instance).
:'''TL;DR;''', though, look at the source (wiki-edit) of another comic that is about Politics and is so categorised. Go all the way to bottom, and you'll see which 'tag' you might want to put at the bottom of this one. Should be obvious. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.94|141.101.99.94]] 17:06, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
::I think I've added that category now [[Special:Contributions/104.23.190.60|104.23.190.60]] 19:33, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

I'm so tired of this administration :( [[User:CharlesT|Nyrrix]] ([[User talk:CharlesT|talk]]) 16:49, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
:Are you a citizen of the USA? If so, are you dead? In exile? In jail? Have your assets been seized? No to these? Then this is your administration and mine. Own it, or act. "Tired" doesn't cut it. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.147.21|172.71.147.21]] 02:02, 26 April 2025 (UTC)
::Your point being...? [[User:GammaRaul|GammaRaul]] ([[User talk:GammaRaul|talk]]) 14:49, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

The comic on mobile has the title text has a youtube video URL, and if you click on the comic on desktop version, it links to the youtube video of the arrest. This isn't reflected in the description currently. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.126.121|172.70.126.121]] 16:51, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

The video URL is '''https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyypeEEOklM''' and appears to be "'''CBS Boston [282K subscribers]'''" so probably legit?
I will try to add the URL. --[[User:PRR|PRR]] ([[User talk:PRR|talk]]) 17:08, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
:For the sake of consistency, I copy-pasted the "note" from [[1723]] into this comic. '''I also think we should have a category and perhaps a template to make adding notes like this easier and more uniform.''' [[Special:Contributions/172.69.67.22|172.69.67.22]] 21:11, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
::''"I copy-pasted...."'' Thank you! --[[User:PRR|PRR]] ([[User talk:PRR|talk]]) 03:56, 26 April 2025 (UTC)
::Well, you can create it right now if you want! --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 22:08, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

Is this the first with an out of site link? {{unsigned}}
:No this happens often. For instance this comic {{xkcd|1723}}. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:09, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

Again, let's keep the explanation as neutral as possible. Facts only. [[User:Dogman15|Dogman15]] ([[User talk:Dogman15|talk]]) 18:49, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
:Dunlap's Laws. 1. Fact is solidified opinion. 2. Facts may weaken under extreme heat and pressure. 3. Truth is elastic. (Arthur Block's "Murphy's Laws", 1977.) - "Facts are elite, facts are fungible, facts are false. And once nothing is true, anything can be true." Alan Burdick, ''Trump vs Science'', New York ''Times'' Newsletter, 25 April 2025. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.22.41|172.68.22.41]] 02:10, 26 April 2025 (UTC)
: the problem is facts have a heavy anti trump bias. You CAN NOT state basic facts and not be against this regime [[Special:Contributions/162.158.112.187|162.158.112.187]] 00:05, 26 April 2025 (UTC)
:: I think it's important to emphasize that neutrality is simply a bias towards the truth rather than towards anything else. On a technical level, being unbiased precludes being neutral and being neutral precludes being unbiased, even if people mostly use the word "unbiased" in the same way as "neutral". In other words, bias isn't inherently a bad thing.[[Special:Contributions/172.71.102.219|172.71.102.219]] 00:48, 26 April 2025 (UTC)
:::"A bias towards the truth" is a bias towards what my homies and I declare to be correct - since 'absolute truth' does not exist, all 'truth' is relative, is what 'my homies and I declare to be correct'. This bias is not trivial, as you point out. Explanations on xkcd have striven to cover the "what, when, where, who, how" of the associated comic, and have striven to omit "what do we think about all this" except as is necessary to describe "what, when, where, who, how". The goal is laudable, but [''ahem''] difficult to manage when the topic is a lit match on a powder keg. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.143|108.162.245.143]] 02:34, 26 April 2025 (UTC)
:::: This "no absolute truth" false neutrality nonsense is a bad faith argument rooted in pop philosophy and obfuscating rhetoric intended to discredit the existence of inconvenient facts. There's a famous, if apocryphal, parable about the philosopher who tried to argue this sort of hogwash to the oncoming train that hit him. Gravity exists, the Earth is not flat, and the current administration is run by a bunch of idiotic narcissists actively harming people for personal profit. [[User:Scorpion451|Scorpion451]] ([[User talk:Scorpion451|talk]]) 04:23, 26 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::"To be properly neutral, you have to give all sides equal time and credence!" This turns out not to be the case. [[User:BunsenH|BunsenH]] ([[User talk:BunsenH|talk]]) 18:45, 26 April 2025 (UTC)
Of course, the bit I was correcting (with bad grammar, and lack of facts) got totally changed about before I tried to post it. "''For instance citizens usually {{w|Deportation of Americans from the United States|cannot be deported for any reason}} (only extradited, although the US typically refuses to comply with requests even from countries that freely extradite to it), and would instead be subject only to local legal penalties, but relatively minor allegations have resulted in visitors' extraditions.''" was what I wrote. Now, I ''think'' that was neutral enough, but it doesn't fit there now anyway. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.58.113|172.70.58.113]] 22:45, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

:Ack, I think I'm the one who changed it before you could. My bad. Anyway, seconded. Opinion on the conflict in Gaza itself is not needed in this explanation; the edit that suggested that the student could be materially linked to Hamas by providing a link to an opinion poll of how Palestinians feel about the Oct 7 attacks is, in my opinion, very disingenuous, especially considering Ozturk is not Palestinian but Turkish, making the cited data even more blatantly irrelevant than it already would have been. [[User:Psycherprince|Psycherprince]] ([[User talk:Psycherprince|talk]]) 23:05, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

This article could potentially be a reasonable place to try to establish a norm of separately including opposing sides of political topics (rather than the usual edit conflicts). [[Special:Contributions/172.70.110.176|172.70.110.176]] 00:35, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Step 6: Try not to lose your visa when traveling or studying abroad by being a nuisance, since visas (in any country) can be denied or revoked for virtually any reason. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.112.168|162.158.112.168]] 01:06, 26 April 2025 (UTC)
:Pray the leopards never eat your face.
::I'll bring decoy meat and try not to insult the cheetahs while visiting. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.112.186|162.158.112.186]] 01:45, 26 April 2025 (UTC)
:Do nothing whatsoever controversial, because you don't know who will be running things within a few years? Or what liberties they may take with due process or law? Certainly one wouldn't want to run afoul of officials who are, say, flat-Earthers, Biblical literalists, or holders of unusual views regarding medical practise. [[User:BunsenH|BunsenH]] ([[User talk:BunsenH|talk]]) 03:45, 26 April 2025 (UTC)
::There is no inalienable right to travel or study abroad, so doing anything "controversial" as a visitor definitely puts you at risk of "being shown the door", as Randall likes to put it. The van full of thugs was added just for drama, but underneath it's no different than being denied a visa for some social media post, which has been happening at least since Obama. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.159.201|172.68.159.201]] 21:29, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

::"...within a few years"? We have that today. [[User:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For|These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For]] ([[User talk:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For|talk]]) 23:32, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Hang on. Why does the [[explain xkcd:Editor FAQ]] say no references? We literally have reflist template and a bunch of pages with references. '''[[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]][[User talk:42.book.addict|Talk to me!]]''' 04:24, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

:I've never seen a page with references besides this one. I guess the template could be used for other things, but we don't use references in explanations. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 09:32, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
::They have been rare, they are (usually) eventually reworded to be 'inline onward references' (i.e. just 'standard' directly hyperlinked text, of whatever kind: [], [[]], {{template|w}}, etc), and I've done that myself on occasion There may even be some cases where the additional "ref"ness available from a ref-tag is more useful (e.g. multi-instance-same-ultimate-external-resource, or metadata).
::It is very true that we highly prefer not-a-Ref links (which editors used to other wikis might not appreciate), I'm uncomfortable with the idea that the reflist template is now quite so "you should ''not'' be seeing this!" in nature. Without actually lookingnat "Pages which use the reflist template"/whatever (I presume you did this?) I'm not sure whether there are any that I would retain, but there may be one or two that I'd be in no hurry to convert to the typical/desirable links instead. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.43.163|172.69.43.163]] 16:39, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. He will send in black ops instead." Good that I'm a German. Such stuff can't happen in Germany. Ever! ;-) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.172.244|162.158.172.244]] 11:08, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
:Germany would never deny a visa to an outspoken nazi sympathizer? They couldn't even bring themselves to grant asylum to Snowden because some free speech is just too costly, but that's not the same as a visa, I guess. Maybe he can still get a tourist visa for a quick trip from Moscow to Berlin, but the next trip would be to extradition prison. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.112.182|162.158.112.182]] 23:42, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

== Reason for detention ==

As it is now, the reason given for Özturk's detention is a half-truth. She was not detained because her visa was revoked. That would only prevent her from re-entering the US, if she left it. In contrast, Özturk's visa was revoked in secret, and she did not know about this until after she had been grabbed off the street and treated like a terrorist, or like a dissident in a South American regime.
https://oiss.washu.edu/visa-status-stamps/ says: "The visa stamp is solely for entering the U.S. You will need it again only when you leave the U.S. and intend to re-enter using that visa. It’s sometimes called an “entry visa,” which is different from “status,” a concept explained below. The visa stamp can expire at any time after your entry to the U.S. without affecting your non-immigrant status. If you leave the U.S. and your visa has expired, you will need to apply for a new visa in order to re-enter the U.S." — "Non-immigrant status (also referred to as “status” or “immigration status”) is a non-physical legal condition, granted by an official of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) when you are admitted into the U.S. at a port of entry. Once you obtain non-immigrant status, you must maintain that status throughout your stay in the U.S. unless you legally change to another status."
ExplainXKCD leaves unexplained whether Özturk's immigration status changed, and on what charges she was detained, or whether she was detained without a charge. It is unclear how her visa revocation is related to her arrest, as a visa revocation would not normally lead to an arrest (or does it?). If the ExplainXkCD's failure to explain the reason for Özturk's arrest is related to the US government's failure to explain the reason, then that should be made clear.
Or simply say, "we're not explaining it because politics, go read Wikipedia and educate yourself", but then explainxkcd should not suggest that the reason is the visa revocation. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.95.159|162.158.95.159]] 04:25, 26 April 2025 (UTC)
:I've added a brief note that ordinarily, visa revocation is not, in itself, grounds for detention. [[User:BunsenH|BunsenH]] ([[User talk:BunsenH|talk]]) 18:45, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Linked the Tufts Daily article she co-authored (which has been claimed to be related to her detention), but it would go better in the References section. Someone, please amend this? I'm too exhausted to do it properly right now. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.6.3|162.158.6.3]] 21:52, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

2100: Models of the Atom

2025-04-19T09:29:30Z

172.71.26.100: /* Explanation */ Redoing the potentially more ambiguous "non-hyphen"s

{{comic
| number = 2100
| date = January 18, 2019
| title = Models of the Atom
| image = models_of_the_atom.png
| titletext = J.J. Thompson won a Nobel Prize for his work in electricity in gases, but was unfairly passed over for his "An atom is plum pudding, and plum pudding is MADE of atoms! Duuuuude." theory.
}}

==Explanation==

This comic humorously describes the changing view of what an {{w|atom}} is. This has happened so much it seems that we never really knew what we are looking at, and there have been many competing theories aside from the mainstream ones we are taught in school. Randall lists major depictions in the history of our understanding of an atom, and adds a few humorous ones in to poke fun at how diverse, contentious, and in retrospect often foolhardy, this history has been.

;Small hard ball model
:The first model shown, in 1810, is said to be a "small hard ball model." Around this time, {{w|John Dalton}} published his textbook ''A New System of Chemical Philosophy'' which linked existing ideas of atomic theory and chemical reactivity to produce a combined {{w|law of multiple proportions}} which proposed that each chemical element is comprised of a single unique type of atom, and introduced the concept of {{w|Molecular mass|molecular weight}}. Dalton's theories form the basis of what is known today as {{w|stoichiometry}}, which underpins chemical reactivity. As atoms were considered at this time to be the smallest possible division of matter the scientific community thought of them as "hard round balls" of different sizes; thus the name described here. The "small hard ball" model is still commonly used when teaching and discussing chemical molecules which do not require the level of detail provided by more advanced models, with atoms represented as small, hard, round balls connected by sticks representing chemical bonds.

;Plum pudding model
:In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the study of these "atom" things faced a crisis: where would the newly discovered "{{w|electron}}s" go? In 1904, physicist {{w|J. J. Thomson}}, who discovered electrons, had an idea: maybe the electrons were small point charges moving around in a big mass of positive charge. This was the "{{w|plum pudding model}}", the second model on the comic, called this because people imagined the positively charged mass as a "{{w|Christmas pudding|plum pudding}}". (The title text references Thomson as well, along with the humorous observation that plum puddings themselves are made of atoms.) The problem with this approach is that same charges generally repel, resulting in the more mobile or unbalanced charges forming a surface shell around the others, attempting to escape, rather than being content to being randomly distributed among them.

;Tiny bird model
:There were many competing ideas in the formative years of what-are-atoms-made-of-ology; [[Randall]] makes up a 1907 "tiny bird model," which he suggests might have fit well in the relative chaos of the period. In this model, four birds surround the small hard ball at equal distances to one another. Two of them are singing and the other two are not and all birds are opposite to their identical bird. The non-singing birds balance the singing birds like electrons and protons. This model might be mocking the strange and sometimes illogical models that were presented for the shape of an atom.

;Rutherford model
:The tentative winner in the battle was the model of Thomson's student {{w|Ernest Rutherford}}, who discovered from electrostatic scattering experiments that the positive charge seemed to be concentrated in the center of the atom, and proposed his {{w|Rutherford model}}, or "planetary model", in 1911, where electrons orbit a very concentrated positive charge. This model has often been compared to the orbit of the planets around the sun, with the electrostatic attraction of the electrons and protons shaping the orbits, rather than gravity. This is the fourth model in the comic.

;Bohr model
:The Rutherford model could not explain the discrete spectral lines in absorption and emission spectra. It also did not explain why electrons did not spiral in to the nucleus. {{w|Niels Bohr}} patched the model up by proposing that electrons could only exist in distinct "energy levels" at discrete distances from the nucleus. The 1913 "{{w|Bohr model}}", the fifth model shown here, was part of beginning quantum mechanics. Physics behaves differently at the small scale of atoms than the large scales we are more familiar with.

;Nunchuck model
:Randall facetiously suggests a "{{w|Nunchaku|nunchuck}} model", the sixth model shown, of a packet of protons swinging a packet of electrons around. One can imagine a handle filled with electrons bonded by the strong nuclear force to a chain made of neutrons, bonded again by the strong nuclear force to a handle made of protons. The heavier protonic handle acts loosely as an orbital center as the electron-filled opposite handle swings wildly around it, attempting to resolve its electrostatic attraction within the restraints of its chain.

;Chadwick model
:The next refinement was in the structure of the nucleus. Note that at this time, nobody thought of splitting up the nucleus into {{w|proton}}s and {{w|neutron}}s. But pretty soon people noticed that protons and neutrons existed; {{w|James Chadwick}}, who discovered the neutron, figured that the atom had a nucleus of neutrons and protons, along with a bunch of electrons orbiting around it in a Bohrish manner. This is what the layman today often thinks of as an atom, and is the seventh model shown here.

;538 model
:The eighth model shown is a made up "538 model," in 2008. {{w|FiveThirtyEight}} is a statistical analysis website that gained fame in 2008 for predicting every race but 2 correctly in the {{w|2008 United States presidential election|US presidential election}} and predicting every state and Obama's win in the 2012 election. Unlike most other media and polling institutes it saw a rather high probability of 29% for Trump to win the 2016 election by summing up the uncertainties in all the battle states. It has since been known for making mathematical models for everything; the model jokingly suggests that 538 has modeled and presumably made predictions about the atom. The {{w|pie chart}} shows the statistical composition of neutrons, protons and electrons, 38%, 31%, and 31% respectively. This could either be the average of a massive body with several isotopes or represent gallium-69, the most abundant {{w|Isotopes of gallium|isotope of gallium}}, with 31 protons, 31 electrons and 38 neutrons. FiveThirtyEight has previously been mentioned in several xkcd comics, including in [[477: Typewriter]], [[500: Election]], [[635: Locke and Demosthenes]], [[1130: Poll Watching]], [[1779: 2017]], and [[2002: LeBron James and Stephen Curry]]. It's appropriate to list the 538 model as a precursor to the quantum model, as it is a step towards considering the likelihood of different quantities of subatomic particles to be in different volumes of space, rather than considering them as strictly kinematic particles. The comic moves this development into 2008 in support of this joke, when it was actually made much earlier.

;Quantum model
:But the Chadwick model is not what scientists endorse today. {{w|Maxwell's equations|The theory of electromagnetism}} says that accelerated charges, like the electrons circling, would lose energy emitted as electromagnetic waves and would quickly orbit into the nucleus. Bohr only postulated that this would not happen, but his model could not explain why. Another problem{{Citation needed}} is that atoms, even the hydrogen atom, are not flat - which they would be, if a single electron orbited in a circular or elliptical trajectory (the circular motion of charge results in a magnetic moment; Otto Stern and Walter Gerlach {{w|Stern–Gerlach experiment|showed}} that independent from the direction of the measurement the angular momentum — for certain elements — always has the maximum positive or negative value, i.e. not only the radius, but also the angular momentum is quantized - and never zero. You cannot 'look at' the atom from above and 'see' the orbital circle. It always 'seems', as if you 'looked' from the side and would measure the full magnetic dipole. Stern and Gerlach actually saw the spin of an electron of the silver atom instead of the angular momentum, which is according to quantum mechanics 0).

:Today (i.e. actually since 1926, 29 years after the discovery of the electron) physicists subscribe to a quantum model, which is the ninth model shown here. Instead of electrons with definite location and momentum (~speed), the parts of the atom are described by probability fields of possible locations and momentums. The changes in momentum probability normally cancel each other out, so there is no electromagnetic radiation.

;"Small hard ball surrounded by math" model
:Although the "quantum model" of today is already very abstract, the next model is postulated to get ''so abstract'' that it is just a "small hard ball surrounded by math". The last model shown is thus remarkably similar to the model we started out from, the "small hard ball model" (without the math).

:The picture for the "small ball surrounded by math" depicts a circle with several numbers around it. While the numbers seem to symbolize the "surrounding math" in a general sense, some of them suggest constants used in actual mathematical equations or other numbers related to the quantum model. The shapes and densities of the atomic orbitals are calculated with the {{w|Schrödinger equation}}, which is complex and difficult to solve. For this reason atoms are generally precisely considered in only very simple simulations, and the details of interactions of many atoms at large scales that form our daily lives are incredibly hard to precisely understand and predict on an atomic level. It comes down to "these roundish things we call atoms are moving around in these approximate ways obeying this complex equation with too many numbers involved in most situations to accurately model, so let's use a different, empirically derived formula that describes the behavior of the system in general."

:This model is probably a reference to the {{w|mathematical universe hypothesis}} and, as a striking case of [[2203: Prescience|prescience]], may be seen as a prediction of April 2020’s {{w|Stephen Wolfram#Wolfram Physics Project|Wolfram Physics Project}}.

==Transcript==
:[Year is underlined except Bohr model.]
:[Heading:]
:<big>Models of the Atom</big>
:over time

:[What follows is a progression of depictions of atoms.]

:[A ball.]
:1810
:Small hard ball model

:[A 'pudding' inside of which there are electrons.]
:1904
:Plum pudding model

:[A ball, with four birds perched on it and two of them singing.]
:1907
:Tiny bird model

:[A ball with electrons orbiting chaotically, in all directions, around it.]
:1911
:Rutherford model

:[A ball with electrons circling around it.]
:1913
:Bohr model

:[A nunchuck swinging, with the left stick filled with protons and the right stick filled with electrons.]
:1928
:Nunchuck model

:[A nucleus with protons and neutrons, with electrons circling around it like the Bohr model.]
:1932
:Chadwick model

:[A pie chart. 38% is allocated to neutrons, 31% to protons, and 31% to electrons.]
:2008
:538 model

:[A nucleus with clover-like orbitals around it and surrounded by two outer partly dashed circles.]
:Today
:Quantum model

:[A ball surrounded with numbers.]
:Future
:"Small hard ball surrounded by math" model

==Trivia==
In the title text, [[Randall]] referenced Thomson but misspelled it as "J.J. Thompson". In the comic image, he also seems to have forgotten to underline the year "1913". Neither of these mistakes have been fixed.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Charts]]
[[Category:Comics featuring real people]] 
[[Category:Physics]]
[[Category:Animals]] 
[[Category:Nobel Prize]]

1606: Five-Day Forecast

2025-03-23T21:30:49Z

172.71.26.100: Undo revision 369872 by 162.158.178.24 (talk) Undoing repeated Transcript.

{{comic
| number = 1606
| date = November 20, 2015
| title = Five-Day Forecast
| image = five_day_forecast.png
| titletext = You know what they say--if you don't like the weather here in the Solar System, just wait five billion years.
}}

==Explanation==
{{w|Weather forecasting}} is an extremely difficult task, even if it is only for five days. In numerical models, extremely small errors in initial values double roughly every five days for variables such as temperature and wind velocity. So most {{w|Meteorology#Meteorologists|meteorologists}} provide us with only a five-day forecast.

In this comic [[Randall]] takes this to the extreme by first showing a '''Five-Day Forecast''' and then progressing to five-month, year, million, billion and finally trillion-year forecasts, leading to {{tvtropes|WeirdWeather|weather patterns that we don't regularly see.}}

Since the first weather symbol is the same in all six rows, we can assume it indicates the weather today and not tomorrow, in a trillion years, etc. It is only in the second panel of each row that time has passed per the row's label. Consequently, the last column gives the predictions for four days, four months, ..., four trillion years from today.

When moving past the five-day prediction, the forecast is just a qualified guess based on the time of year. In a month it is Christmas as shown in the second panel of the second row. Then it is January and February so snow is likely, but certainly not something that happens on all days of a winter month.

Looking at the five-year forecast, guesses are made as to what the weather will be like at the same time of year. For these first three predictions the weather symbols are all of the same three types: Sun, clouds and some kind of {{w|precipitation}}, rain or snow, with the temperature ranging from 21 to 44 °F (-6.1 to 6.6 °C) - winter temperatures.

Then we go into the far future, jumping a million years from panel to panel. But still the weather symbols stay the same. In 3 million years, however, aliens (or advanced humans) attack with energy beams from {{w|flying saucers}}. They are gone a million years later. The temperature range remains the same across the panels except that it rises to 52 °F (11 °C), a possible reference to global warming, in one panel, and while the attack is going on it rises to 275 °F (135 °C).

Once we get to the billion-year mark it actually becomes more meaningful to try to predict the "weather", because now we reach the times when the {{w|Sun}} begins to change. Although the Sun will continue to burn hydrogen for about 5 billion years yet (while in its {{w|Sun#Main sequence|main sequence|}}), it will grow in diameter as it begins to exhaust its supply of fuel. The core will contract to increase the temperature, and the outer layer will then compensate by expanding slightly. This is what is indicated in panels two and three, where the color of the Sun changes towards red as the surface becomes cooler as it expands away from the center of the Sun. The temperature will rise on Earth as indicated in the panels (105 °F = 40.5 °C and 371 °F = 188 °C). The temperature will get hot enough in about [http://phys.org/news/2015-02-sun-wont-die-billion-years.html a billion years] that the Earth's oceans will boil away.

Once it {{w|Sun#After core hydrogen exhaustion|no longer has enough hydrogen}}, the Sun will expand into a {{w|red giant}}. This should not happen until around {{w|Sun#Composition|five billion years from now}}, but in the forecast it is indicated to happen in only three. Maybe this is Randall taking liberties to show what happens during this phase, which would not fit into a four-billion-year forecast. Alternatively it just indicates how uncertain these kinds of forecasts are, or a statement that we may not know for certain that it will take five not three billion years.

In any case, the fourth panel shows the temperature at Earth's position inside the red giant Sun. The color of the panel indicates that we are inside the Sun. The temperature is 71,488,106 degrees Fahrenheit (39,715,597 degrees Celsius). The current temperature of the center of the Sun is "only" 27 million degrees Fahrenheit (15 million degrees Celsius), and although that may rise by a factor of ten during {{w|Stellar nucleosynthesis|helium fusion}}, that will only be at the very core and not out in the solar atmosphere reaching out to Earth. Here the temperature would only be of the order of thousands of degrees Fahrenheit, since the Sun's outer temperature decreases as it increases its diameter. So this panel's temperature also makes little sense. It may involve some ambiguities regarding what the forecast means; the edge of the red giant Sun is predicted to be somewhere near the current orbit of Earth, but the position of the Earth could change. The most likely prediction at the moment is for Earth to move outward, but if the planet is engulfed by the Sun, it would spiral inward, and at some point fall apart. So in some sense "here" for the forecast could become a position deep inside the Sun, where core temperatures could reach 100 million Kelvin. The temperatures shown are unreasonably precise; they probably should have only two or at most three significant figures.

The red giant phase lasts only half a million years, so a billion years after the Sun has been a red giant its outer atmosphere will definitely have disappeared, leaving only a dim, cool {{w|white dwarf}} to cool down. Given Randall's version of this time schedule, then it will have had about a billion years to cool down, but would still likely be the brightest object in the sky as seen from where the Earth once was. It is not shown in the last panel, where we just see other stars of the Galaxy. The temperature is down to that of the {{w|Cosmic microwave background|background radiation}}. Today this radiation has a temperature of 2.72548 kelvin = -270.4245 °C = -454.7641 °F. That is a few degrees F colder than what is shown in the comic, which states the temperature is -452 °F = 4.26 kelvin. This higher temperature may have been chosen to reflect that even the light from other stars would increase the actual temperature.

In the last panel with trillions of years, we jump right past the Sun's red giant phase to a panel looking much like the one after five billion years with only other stars. Over the next three trillion years the stars become fewer and fewer and dimmer and dimmer as they run out of fuel and fewer new stars form. After four trillion years the background temperature decreases one degree to -453 °F as the universe keeps expanding and the wavelength of the radiation does the same, thus decreasing its temperature.

The title text is a play on comments referring to fast-changing weather on a more ordinary human timescale, such as Mark Twain's quip, "If you don't like the weather in New England now, just wait a few minutes."

A ten-day forecast was used in [[1245: 10-Day Forecast]]. In [[1379: 4.5 Degrees]], Randall looked at the weather over long periods of time as well. in [[1643: Degrees]] he addressed Celsius vs. Fahrenheit for measuring temperature.

===Image using Celsius===

There is a different user-made version for the picture, using [[3001|Celsius]] instead of Fahrenheit, [[:File:five_day_forecast_Celsius.png|in this image link]]. (For a version that also uses Kelvin, [[:File:five_day_forecast_Celsius+Kelvin.png|click here]].)

==Transcript==
:[A grid with six rows of five columns, where each row is labeled to the left. For each of the 30 squares a temperature is given in Fahrenheit at the top left. The rest of the square represents the weather as in a weather forecast (or some other relevant items for the comic), mainly in bright colors. Below are the six labels given above each of their five weather symbols with temperature given below these symbols description.]

:'''Your 5-day forecast'''
:[A bright yellow sun.]
:38°F
:[A grey cloud.]
:41°F
:[A grey cloud with six lines of blue raindrops below.]
:36°F
:[A grey cloud in front of a yellow sun.]
:40°F
:[A bright yellow sun.]
:44°F

:'''Your 5-month forecast'''
:[A bright yellow sun.]
:38°F
:[A green Christmas tree with red presents beneath it.]
:29°F
:[A grey cloud with four snowflakes below.]
:21°F
:[A grey cloud with four snowflakes below.]
:24°F
:[A grey cloud.]
:35°F

:'''Your 5-year forecast'''
:[A bright yellow sun.]
:38°F
:[A grey cloud.]
:25°F
:[A bright yellow sun.]
:36°F
:[A grey cloud with six lines of blue raindrops below.]
:37°F
:[A bright yellow sun.]
:41°F

:'''Your 5-million-year forecast'''
:[A bright yellow sun.]
:38°F
:[A bright yellow sun.]
:52°F
:[A grey cloud.]
:40°F
:[Two red flying saucers (with bright domes) are shooting energy beams downwards. One of the beams seems to impact with something at the bottom of the panel, which then explodes. Two plumes of smoke rises up from below, drifting to the right.]
:275°F
:[A grey cloud in front of a yellow sun.]
:40°F

:'''Your 5-billion-year forecast'''
:[A bright yellow sun.]
:38°F
:[A larger orange sun.]
:105°F
:[A very large red sun.]
:371°F
:[A pale yellow panel with no drawing.]
:71,488,106°F
:[A night sky with many bright stars.]
:-452°F

:'''Your 5-trillion-year forecast'''
:[A bright yellow sun.]
:38°F
:[A night sky with many bright stars.]
:-452°F
:[A night sky with many stars.]
:-452°F
:[A night sky with fewer not so bright stars.]
:-452°F
:[A night sky with few dim stars.]
:-453°F

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics with inverted brightness]]
[[Category:Comics with color]]
[[Category:Science]]
[[Category:Space]]
[[Category:Astronomy]]
[[Category:Weather]]
[[Category:Aliens]]

3065: Square Units

2025-03-21T09:44:41Z

172.71.26.100: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 3065
| date = March 19, 2025
| title = Square Units
| image = square_units_2x.png
| imagesize = 545x678px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = The biggest I've seen in a published source in the wild is an 80-fold error in a reported distance, which I think came from a series of at least three unit conversions and area/length misinterpretations.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a BUG IN A SQUARE AREA DEFOLIATION BOT - Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

In this comic, [[Megan]] is using her phone to read about an insect species that consumes (hyperbolically described as 'devours') one square inch of grass per day. As it is relayed through a chain of conversations, this measurement gets misinterpreted up to 12 times until [[Hairbun]] tells other people that it devours an area of grass equal to two times the land area of Australia per day, which is clearly impossible by one insect.{{citation needed}} This is similar to the premise of [[2585: Rounding]].

This gross error is the result of repeatedly misinterpreting the number of square units as the side length of a square, thus increasing the described area by the power of two. The chain also involves converting between {{w|imperial units}} and {{w|International System of Units|SI}} units, thus introducing smaller rounding errors, and frequently switching which measurement is "a single square with sides of a certain distance" and which is "the number of squares that are each of unit length". The upshot is that, while each statement has two (or more) roughly similar measurements of area, the chain of misunderstanding ends up escalating to ever larger relative expanses. The later participants in this chain also clearly forget to sanity-check their figures, blithely informing others that an individual insect is effectively consuming impossibly huge quantities of food, and travelling enormous linear distances every day to do so. In fact, assuming the insect can eat a 1 cm strip of grass per second, it would need to travel at (2,500 miles)2 / 1cm / 24 hours = 1.87×107 km/s, which is about 62 times the speed of light.

In the final frame, [[Blondie]] further misinterprets the comparative 'area of Australia' to mean the ''actual'' land mass of Australia, with the notional insect entirely defoliating the country twice a day, presumably of whatever had managed to grow within each 12 hour cycle. This would quickly kill off a large proportion of the vegetation, leading to a decreasing food supply for the insect.

The title text tells us that [[Randall]] once found an 80-fold error in a reported distance in a published source.

===Table of conversions===
{{note|Table is (or used to be) too wide. "Acre" starts to overlap normal page area, everything else is beyond it. Suggest perhaps three or four significant figures ''plus'' scientific exponentiation on all figures where this does not increase a cell's minimum required width? Also, should the table use something else than gain percentages (like multiplication factors instead)? P.S. Perhaps also explain the meanings behind the different colors?}}
{| class="wikitable"
! step !! percentage gain !! total percent of original area !! square inch !! square cm !! square foot !! acre !! square meters !! square kilometers !! square miles
|-
! 1
| N/A || 100% ||style="background-color:lightgreen;"| 1||style="background-color:red;"| 6.4516 || 0.006945 || 1.594e-7 || 0.0006451 || 6.451e-10 || 2.490e-10
|-
! 2
| -7% || 93% || 0.93 ||style="background-color:pink;"| 6 || 0.006458 || 1.482e-7 || 0.0006 || 6e-10 || 2.316e-10
|-
! 3
| +500% || 558% || 5.580 ||style="background-color:lightgreen;"| 36 (62)||0.03875 || 8.895e-7 || 0.0036 || 3.6e-9 || 1.39e-9
|-
! 4
| +3,500% || 20,090% || 200.9 ||style="background-color:lightgreen;"|1,296 (362) || style="background-color:red;"|1.395 || 3.202e-5 || 0.1296 || 1.296e-7 || 5.004e-8
|-
! 5
| -28.3% || 14,400% || 144 || style="background-color:red;"|929.03 || style="background-color:pink;"|1 || 2.296e-5 || 0.09290 || 9.290e-8 || 3.587e-8
|-
! 6
| -3.12% || 13,950% || 139.5 || style="background-color:pink;"|900|| 0.9688 || 2.224e-5 || 0.09 ||9e-8 || 3.475e-8
|-
! 7
| +89,900% || 12,555,025.1% || 125,550.251 || style="background-color:lightgreen;"|810,000 (9002)|| style="background-color:green;"|871.9||0.02002 || 81||8.1e-5 || 3.127e-5
|-
! 8
| +3.22% || 12,960,000% || 129,600 || 836,127||style="background-color:lightgreen;"| 900 (302) ||0.02066|| 83.61||8.361e-5 || 3.228e-5
|-
! 9
| +89,900% || 11,664,000,000% || 1.166e+8 || 7.525e+8 ||style="background-color:lightgreen;"| 810,000 (9002) || style="background-color:green;"|18.59|| 7.525e+4 || 0.07525 || 0.02905
|-
! 10
| +7.55% || 12,545,275,491% || 1.255e+8 || 8.094e+8|| 871,200||style="background-color:lightgreen;"| 20|| style="background-color:green;"|8.093e+5 || 0.08093 || 0.03125
|-
! 11
| +7,907,375% || 992,001,984,003,868% || 9.920e+12 || 6.4e+13|| 6.889e+13 || 1.581e+6 || style="background-color:lightgreen;"| 6.4e+9 (80,0002) || 6,400 ||2,471
|-
! 12
| +0% || 992,001,984,003,868% || 9.920e+12 || 6.4e+13|| 6.889e+13 || 1.581e+6 || 6.4e+9 || style="background-color:lightgreen;"|6,400 (802) ||style="background-color:green;"|2,471
|-
! 13
| +252,928% || 2,509,056,048,112,096,000% || 2.509e+16|| 1.618e+17 || 1.7424e+14|| 4.000e12 || 1.619e+13 || 1.618e+7 || style="background-color:lightgreen;"|6.250e+6 (2,5002)
|-
|}
The total area of Australia is 7,688,287 km² or 2,968,464 mi², making it the 6th largest country on Earth by area. A 2,500-mile square would actually be about 2.1 times greater than the land area of Australia, once again having a rounding error.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
:[Arrows point to each consecutive panel.]

:[Megan is looking at her phone, with Cueball standing next to her.]
:Megan: This newly-described insect can devour up to a square inch of grass per day.
:Cueball: Oh, neat.

:[Cueball is speaking to Ponytail.]
:Cueball: ...it eats a square inch, or 6 cm², of grass per day...

:[Ponytail is speaking to Hairy.]
:Ponytail: ...a 6-centimeter (2½ inch) square of grass, or 36 cm²...

:[Arrows now point to each consecutive conversion.]
:Written out of panel: ...a 36 centimeter square, or over a square foot...
:Written out of panel: ...a square foot, or 900 cm²...
:Written out of panel: ...a 900 cm (30 foot) square...
:Written out of panel: ...a 30 foot square of grass (900 square feet)...
:Written out of panel: ...a 900 foot square, or almost 20 acres...
:Written out of panel: ...20 acres (8 hectares, or 80,000 square meters)...
:Written out of panel: ...an 80,000 meter (80 km) square...
:Written out of panel: ...a square 80 km wide, or roughly 2,500 square miles...
:Written out of panel: ...a 2,500-mile square, or twice the land area of Australia, per day...

:[An arrow points from the last conversion to the last panel.]
:[Hairbun is looking at her phone, with White Hat, Danish and Blondie standing next to her.]
:Hairbun: Did you hear about this insect that defoliates the entire land area of Australia twice a day?
:White Hat: Gosh!
:Danish: Wow.
:Blondie: I hope at least it's contained there...

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Math]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Hairy]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Hairbun]]
[[Category:Comics featuring White Hat]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Danish]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Blondie]]

Talk:3063: Planet Definitions

2025-03-15T09:46:43Z

172.71.26.100:

The one currently posted has Pluto highlighted in the second box and not highlighted in the first box. Too hard to tell if it's trolling or a genuine mistake. :-D

:Apparently a mistake since it's fixed now. [[User:HughNo|HughNo]] ([[User talk:HughNo|talk]]) 19:59, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

And the first one also has a moon hilighted instead I think?? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.5|162.158.126.5]] 15:59, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

:Was about to write the same. The coloring in the first two lines arund Pluto seem wrong (or mistankingly switched). --[[Special:Contributions/172.71.222.246|172.71.222.246]] 16:17, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

This, this is the hill I will die on. I was radicalised by this paper: [https://arxiv.org/abs/2110.15285 Moons Are Planets: "Scientific Usefulness Versus Cultural Teleology in the Taxonomy of Planetary Science"]
In short; planets are what planetary scientists study. Round things with the *good stuff*: atmospheres, oceans, volcanoes (of lava or water ice) (see diagram page 53).
Pluto, Titan, Ceres, Io and Europa are all in the sweet spot where you're not so small you're just a lump of rocks who happen to be stuck together into a lump, and not so large you're just a mostly undifferentiated mass of fusing hydrogen/helium plasma.
And it's consistent with our pre-20th Century understanding of what a planet is, whereas the IAU definition is trying to preserve 19th Century astrology. An amazing read and a strong recommend for anyone who cares about this subject. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.79.138|172.69.79.138]] 16:45, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

Does this sort of count as pi-related for pi day? [[User:TomtheBuilder|TomtheBuilder]] ([[User talk:TomtheBuilder|talk]]) 17:04, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
:he doesn't do themed comics anymore 😔 [[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 17:12, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

:: Sure he does. [[2962]] and [[2969]] weren't too long ago. Seems like it, though. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.182.222|172.71.182.222]] 03:31, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

I was somewhat disappointed to get to the end of the table without seeing either an astrology or Sailor Moon joke. -- [[User:Angel|Angel]] ([[User talk:Angel|talk]]) 18:12, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

Is it possible that Uranus is marked under "Empiricist" because of the "Randall has seen Uranus" joke? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.42.178|172.70.42.178]] 18:38, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

The "{{w|Classical planet|Classical Planets}}" should be 7, including the Sun and the Moon.
:The average distance of the orbit of the Moon around the Earth must be slightly farther away than the orbit of the Sun around the Earth, since the Moon lags behind the Sun a little more each day, but the orbits must cross or we would never have a solar eclipse :P [[User:SammyChips|SammyChips]] ([[User talk:SammyChips|talk]]) 19:41, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

Wouldn't the Regolithic one depend on the exact definitions of "dirt", "ice", and "covered"? It seems that an argument could be made that the giant planets also count there but have a much thicker atmosphere on the outside, and disqualifying because of the atmosphere could exclude others like Earth depending on the exact threshold used. [[User:SammyChips|SammyChips]] ([[User talk:SammyChips|talk]]) 19:08, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

Has Randall not seen the sun before?
:I'm impressed that he has seen Uranus (unless that actually is a joke), especially if he saw it unaided (apparently it actually can be barely seen with the naked eye if the conditions are incredibly good). [[User:SammyChips|SammyChips]] ([[User talk:SammyChips|talk]]) 19:36, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
:Could the sun be classified as a "world"? --[[User:MothWaves|MothWaves]] ([[User talk:MothWaves|talk]]) 19:43, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
:I assumed he meant "seen directly with my eyes", so that a photograph would not count, but looking through a telescope during an astronomy night at the local University would count. And he hasn't looked *closely* at the Sun, because of the need for eye protection. [[User:JimJJewett|JimJJewett]] ([[User talk:JimJJewett|talk]]) 23:49, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

Technically, spacecraft have landed on Mercury, Jupiter, and Saturn. Just not in a survivable manner. [[User:Redacted II|Redacted II]] ([[User talk:Redacted II|talk]]) 19:37, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
:Have we really not sent anything directly into the Sun yet? [[User:JimJJewett|JimJJewett]] ([[User talk:JimJJewett|talk]]) 23:51, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
::The most "into the Sun" we've done is [https://science.nasa.gov/mission/parker-solar-probe/ the Parker Solar Probe], and it hasn't attempted to 'land' there (apart from that being effectively impossible, even beyond the likes of Cassini's final fall "onto" Saturn). It's also ''very hard'' to even send things into the Sun, because the direct method would need you to send a craft from Earth backwards at the same speed as the Earth orbits forwards (or very close to that), otherwise all you can do is fall ''past'' it and loop back up again. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.94|162.158.74.94]] 01:00, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

It looks like the Pluto error in Traditionalist and Modernist images were fixed. I now see Pluto highlighted in traditionalist and Pluto unhighlighted in Modern. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.7.91|172.68.7.91]] 19:44, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

indeed, it seems fine now, i removed my earlier comment--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.233.116|162.158.233.116]] 23:06, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

//Jean-Luc Margot wrote a serious planet definition proposal// in 2024 as a starting point for community conversations and welcomes feedback. In 2019 I wrote a small article myself on planet and moon classes simply by size. //Mondklassen "wwwahnsinn"// (in German).
[[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.108|162.158.159.108]] 19:49, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

I'm disputing that there has never been a formal definition of "planet" prior to 2006 - the ancient Greek definition of "wandering [relative to seemingly-fixed stars] points of light in the night sky" seems formal enough to me. I marked it {{tl|actual citation needed}}. [[Special:Contributions/198.41.227.73|198.41.227.73]] 19:52, 14 March 2025‎
: I've reworded the sentence to say "in modern times" so we aren't making unfounded and likely-incorrect claims about antiquity. [[Special:Contributions/198.41.227.73|198.41.227.73]] 21:19, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

Does anyone else strongly dislike the term '''natural satellite''' replacing ''moon''? Under the new nomenclature, only Earth's moon is 'the Moon'. All other moons are now merely natural satellites. Phobos, Deimos, Ganymede, are no longer considered moons. My biggest problem with the new definition is that planets themselves are natural satellites of stars. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.182.225|172.71.182.225]] 20:13, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

It seems likely that the Saturnian moon highlighted in the Maritime definition is Titan, since it has liquid seas and lakes on its surface. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.6.5|172.69.6.5]] 21:54, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
:I've noted in the Transcript that (despite apparently being ''identical'' pre-highlight drawings in all other ways, or at least very consistently reproduced), Saturn is given one moon ''most'' of the time, but two moons on occasion. Similarly, Uranus's moons (spread from upper-right to lower-left) do-or-do-not include the dot (in one case suffering a highlighting) moving across the face of the planet. From an analytical perspective, I'm wondering if Randall did indeed copypaste the 'normal' iillustration, but then have to manually add in "whoops, I forgot I need to highlight a further item thaat I haven't already drawn" into some of the established copies, touching up where necessary (and maybe where still not necessary too). ...But I'm not sure it matters what he did or did not do. It's just an observation about the result. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.79.190|172.69.79.190]] 23:03, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
:Yeah, Titan's present in all the diagrams, and a second moon of Saturn shows up when highlighting is necessary. The bonus "Marine Biologist" planet is clearly Enceladus, but the bonus "Judgemental" planet doesn't line up with it: presumably it's one of Saturn's other moons. Which one? My wild guess is Iapetus. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.150.27|172.68.150.27]] 01:48, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

Great explanation, thank you, but was it really necessary to include a snide dig at Baby Boomers? Not a BB myself - I'm gen X, if we're using those facile labels - but surely we don't need to encourage intergenerational resentment and conflict. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.174.116|172.68.174.116]] 03:22, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

I believe we're currently missing part of the joke in the mouseover text. Not only is Earth now a star because of human fusion, it's also no longer a planet, because, due to human satellites and spacecraft, it no longer clears its orbit.
[[Special:Contributions/198.41.227.42|198.41.227.42]] 06:20, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

As a historian, I strongly disagree with the snide definition of tradition. (No, not a BB.) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.212.132|162.158.212.132]] 07:40, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

Isn't the usual singular of criteria criterion? According to my dictionary, a criterium is a type of cycling race.--[[Special:Contributions/172.71.26.100|172.71.26.100]] 09:46, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

== Citations ==

I added a bunch of Wikipedia citations. I went by the WP rule (citation needed) of linking the first non-parenthesized instance of a word/phrase. That does make for some awkward things, like lists with only some of the items linked, and the {{w|natural satellite|moon}} link in a mention under '''Simplistic''' rather than on the more relevant '''Lunar'''.
–[[User:P1h3r1e3d13|P1h3r1e3d13]] ([[User talk:P1h3r1e3d13|talk]]) 22:34, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

'''Round vs Spheroidal'''
According to the "simplistic" definition, the rings themselves (also round) are separate planets. If the simplistic definition had merely been "spheroidal" rather than "round", they would not be. I'd love to see a version of the chart where Saturn is green, but the rings are white. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.99.166|172.71.99.166]] 23:36, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

3055: Giants

2025-02-25T16:53:32Z

172.71.26.100: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 3055
| date = February 24, 2025
| title = Giants
| image = giants_2x.png
| imagesize = 341x423px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = I can't get over the suspicion that all those viral pictures are photoshopped and 'Flemish' belongs in the lower right circle.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a MAMMAL GIANT - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

This comic is a {{w|Venn Diagram}} (a [[2721: Euler Diagrams|more exacting subset]] of {{w|Euler Diagram}}) grouping different things with "giant" in the name. The three categories are giants from space, 'geological' features called giants and giants who have been proven to be fictional. In the central overlap of all categories is a possible 'giant', fulfilling all groupings, but normally ''without'' the word "giant" in its name.

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Name !! Class !! Explanation
|-
| {{w|Red giant|Red Giant}} || Space || A type of large, relatively cool star.
|-
| {{w|Blue giant|Blue Giant}} || Space || An early type of large, relatively hot star.
|-
| Iron Giant || Space, Not Real || Title character from a {{w|The Iron Giant|1999 animated film}} and the {{w|The Iron Man (novel)|1968 children's book}} it was based on (written by English poet and author {{w|Ted Hughes}} and published outside the US as ''The Iron Man: A Children's Story in Five Nights'') : a robot from outer space.
|-
| {{w|Frost Giant (disambiguation)|Frost Giant}} || Not Real || Beings from Norse mythology, Frost Giants also appear in Marvel comic/film versions.
|-
| Jolly Green Giant || Not Real || A mascot for a {{w|Green Giant|brand of canned vegetables}}.
|-
| {{w|Cardiff Giant}} || Geologic/Planetary, Not Real || An 1869 archaeological hoax of a supposed petrified giant man.
|-
| {{w|Atacama Giant}} || Geologic/Planetary || A prehistoric {{w|geoglyph}}.
|-
| {{w|Paratethys#Salt Giants|Salt Giant}} || Geologic/Planetary || A huge salt deposit below the Mediterranean sea.
|-
| {{w|Gas giant|Gas Giant}} || Space, Geologic/Planetary || A large gaseous planet, like Jupiter or Saturn.
|-
| {{w|Ice giant|Ice Giant}} || Space, Geologic/Planetary || A relatively large icy planet, like Uranus or Neptune.
|-
| {{w|Man in the Moon|The Man In The Moon}} || Space, Geologic/Planetary, Not Real || A 'face' visible in the near side of the Moon, sometimes shown as a character in children's nursery rhymes. As a feature, it is real, but not a 'real' giant, only a {{w|pareidolia}}.
|-
| {{w|Flemish Giant rabbit|Flemish Giant}} (title text) || Real, but Randall suspects it belongs in Not Real || One of the largest breeds of domestic bun (about the same size as a {{w|Cocker Spaniel}} dog).

|}

This is one of many xkcd comics that include or reference Venn diagrams.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:Types of Giant

:[A Venn diagram with three categories: In space, Geologic/Planetary, Not real]
:[Only in "In space": Red, Blue]
:[Only in "Geologic/Planetary": Atacama, Salt]
:[Only in "Not read": Frost, Jolly green]
:[Both in "In space" and "Geologic/Planetary": Gas, Ice]
:[Both in "In space" and "Not real": Iron]
:[Both in "Geologic/Planetary" and Not real": Cardiff]
:[In all three: [The man in the Moon]]

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Charts]]
[[Category:Astronomy]]
[[Category:Puns]]
[[Category:Fiction]]
[[Category:Venn diagrams]]
[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Buns]]

User talk:Elektrizikekswerk

2025-02-05T21:12:15Z

172.71.26.100:

Hi,

I managed to remove your edit in Exoplanet Names 2 during an edit conflict. Sorry about that :( I went to paste your text back in, but somebody else has editted that entry since.
Your edit text is below, if you wish to integrate it into the explanation. --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 10:17, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

*As the title text a reference to [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/what_if%3F What if?]'s [http://www.what-if.xkcd.com/53/ 53], [http://www.what-if.xkcd.com/54/ 54] and comic [[1551: Pluto]]. Due to a drain in the Earth's ocean the Netherlands have not to worry about getting flooded, anymore and take the opportunity to conquer the world (including Antarctica becoming South Netherlands) in What if 53, Mars (New Netherlands) in What if 54, and a section of Pluto (again: New Netherlands) in comic 1551. This may also be a possible reference to [[1519: Venus]], but there seems to be no relation to the other conquests of the Netherlands.

Before I throw away the workings out I did, I changed the little calculator I did (for various hours-and-days-in-a-week combinations, in case it gave me anything surprising to report that I'd missed) to do hours-and-days-in-a-year. And did it with Julian years (365.25×24) because it was more accurate than using non-leaping years, but more useful than the hour-fractional Gregorian type. Anyway, I thought you might be interested....
*Factoring the whole hours gives 2*3²*487 (unpromising numbers, I know!), which gives twelve possible 'X hours in Y days' to make up a 'regular' J-Year. 487 18-hour days is by far the closest 'normal' cycle (the next longest day is 487 hours, and of course just 18 of them!). Of course, the daylights drift from solar-time even just looking at year-end (barring the additional Gregorian drift, it does of course repeat 'nicely' every four years).
*Giving it seconds of resolution gives us 180 options to evenly split a Julian Year into integer-seconds per day. 400 'days' of 78894 seconds (487 must feature somewhere in any factorisation!) or 360 days of 87660 on the other side of the 365.25×86400 (and not purely integered) 'normal'.
*And 365.2524 days (of 86400 seconds) isn't even an integer, so you'd need centisecond resolution (2⁷*3⁵*71*1429, giving 192 options and 324 or 384 as 'nearest to 'normal' numbers of days, and a headache when deciding how to allocate centiseconds within each day). Not so useful!
Assuming I copied the right details across (if I fell down, I'm going to assume its on the prime factors, perhaps missing one, or a bad copypasta at some point), but I'm deleting it all now anyway. Just FYI. For critique, if nothing else... :p [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.186|172.70.162.186]] 16:38, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
: Thanks for sharing :) [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 06:51, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

== You user page - is marked for deletion ==

Hi Elektrizikekswerk

Someone has marked your userpage for deletion. And I can see it was not you who created it in the first place. Would you like me to delete it, or would you rather write something in it? Or just remove the marked for deletion tag?

Regards the active admin
--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:25, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
: Hi! Why should it be deleted? Just remove the tag. Thanks! [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 13:28, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
::Sorry, that would be my fault. I was marking up a lot of user pages that various users had created just for the sake of not having a red link and marked your user page for deletion. Seeing as you want to keep it like that, I have removed the tag. '''[[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]][[User talk:42.book.addict|Talk to me!]]''' 17:33, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
::(Started writing this before 42 replied, but after they'd reverted to don't delete. Hen got dragged away before I could post. Still, might be useful to see what I'd put.) You can check its history, but:
::*It was created in the first place not by you or, seemingly, ''for'' you. If I remember correctly, it was during one of the "I don't like seeing red links" phases that occasionally logged-in users go through (see a signature link in a Talk page, create it so it's valid).
::*Then it was later marked for deletion by someone in a "let's try and clean up unused pages" phase, as you'd clearly had no vested interest in it.
::*Then later unmarked by someone in "why are there so many Pages To Delete?" phase, then ''that'' reversed by someone probably in a "nothing's lost if it is" phase.
::Not that it was in rapid danger of being actually deleted. But, if it had been, you could always have created it again, I'm guessing... As of now (not at all imminently deleted, but still 'empty'), I might suggest you think of something to say there. It would at least prevent further deletion-ping-pong happening! [[Special:Contributions/172.71.26.100|172.71.26.100]] 21:12, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

User talk:Firestar233

2025-01-07T16:00:16Z

172.71.26.100: /* Whaaaaaaaaa */

{{crickets}}

but nobody came

== User and User Talk pages for IPs ==

There really is no point to creating these for IP users (such as myself, yes), as they are not a practical/viable a means to contact a specific anonymous contributor, nor a useful 'home-page' for them to use.

Now, '42' is maybe a bit keen to tidy up, and found that you seem to be active (or at least responded to a notification about the change to your Watched page, yes?), so rightfuly that should be reversed (the merits of tagging to delete other named users will depend upon the users themselves, there are occasional spam-only (or failed spam-only!) contributors that were given User-space pages by well-meaning others, who neither know nor care). But setting IP-specific pages to delete is entirely justified. If there are any significant contributions to these, they could probably be copied somewhere else first (pages of the most significant ''named'' contributor?), yet I generally doubt that'll be a realistic consideration, overall. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.163.111|172.70.163.111]] 12:23, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
: If the pages were blank, then I might agree. I'm mostly undecided on deleting the IP addresses' user and talk pages, but ''registered'' users probably shouldn't have their pages be deleted even if they are blank. [[User:Firestar233|guess who]] ([[User talk:Firestar233|if you desire conversing]] | [[Special:Contributions/Firestar233|what i have done]]) 21:31, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
:: Some people, upon getting "page creation privileges" have tended to go around and "un-redtext" people's user-space pages (or even just make them for random users they've seen sign up that day - not realising that a vast majority of the [[Special:Log/newusers|new users]] are typically just attempts at auto-spamming that get stalled).
:: It's all a lot easier if the user concerned (the who gains the pages) hasn't made any actual editing, or whose only edits are discredited. Even if you delete them and it ''wasn't'' a totally abandoned (and never-used) account, just hadn't got around to doing anything for several years, it can be recreated as soon as the puzzled owner finds out. (Some users, recently coming into "page creation capability" have tended to try to de-RedText random contributors to article Talk pagesl; or even give [[Special:Log/newusers|recent new users]] their userspace-pages, despite most of those clearly being abortively created only for spamming purposes.)
:: I think there's a degree of consideration to take when there is some content. But what use does the content of [[User talk:108.162.212.48|a page such as this]] have? That'd be a decision I'd happily leave to the administrator who eventually decideds to ''look at'' the "please delete this page" tag. They can look at the contributors, what they contribute, decided whether to: a) actually delete it (and, if there's reason to, they can always 'undelete' it, but meanwhile it cleans up the openly visible site), or b) remove the tag themselves.
:: I don't think it's your job to remove "please delete" tagging from pages that you randomly find like that. If you know the user concerned, maybe. If you ''are'' the user yourself, especially. But all you're doing is leaving it in a state where someone can be equally certain that they should be tagged-to-delete (with exactly the same reasoning) and re-apply it. Mass-hot(un)catting doesn't make me think that you've even looked at the users (contributors, if any, whoever created the page in the first place, but also the 'owner', if they've ever been involved).
:: No, maybe it wasn't right '42' to mark your particular page, but... look at the actual history of pages like [[User:Danken]]. Created (probably) in error, marked for deletion when that was realised... Then you reverse that for what reason? (Not for the sake of the content.) Good intentions, yes, vs. an equal well-intent. And, personally, I'd side with (some of!) the things you untagged being more tag-worthy than not. Leaving it up to the admin(s) to work out as and when they get around to it. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.118|162.158.74.118]] 22:41, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

==Whaaaaaaaaa==
:Omg you know warriors and undertale!? {{unsigned|Definitely Bill Cipher|15:04, 7 January 2025}}

Talk:3020: Infinite Armada Chess

2024-12-09T15:30:40Z

172.71.26.100:

Did I do well? Added a very very basic explanation. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.147.132|172.68.147.132]] 04:25, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Well, yes but I wonder if just one tiny fix is needed. If you replace the white side with a simplyfied artillery tower, you reinvented space invaders.{{unsigned ip|172.71.160.70|04:57, 5 December 2024 (UTC)}}

I was personally hoping for an explanation of the Infinite Armada thing, and I feel like a link to the TV Tropes page doesn't really. Explain that at all. So I would love a bit of an expansion on that part! Just want to be sure I didn't miss some reference or something. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.23.91|172.68.23.91]] 05:48, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
: Likewise. I get the comic, but I assumed the 'armada' part was a reference that I just did not get. But it seems it is just a word choice. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.102.105|172.71.102.105]] 09:39, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
:: The only "Infinite Armada" reference I can think of is ''[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Knights_of_the_Old_Republic Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic]'', which kind of makes sense because if you have a Star Forge to make chess pieces with, why wouldn't you make them all queens? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.167.159|162.158.167.159]] 18:47, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

I think that since the error was "out of bounds", not "out of memory", it's referring to indexing outside of the region of memory that the program allocated to deal with the board. This would happen since instead of addressing rank 1..8, you could address rank 9, 10, 0, or -1. Unless bounds checking is performed when converting the board coordinates into linear array indices, you'd get an out-of-bounds error (or worse, succeed in reading or modifying memory that you weren't intending to). --[[Special:Contributions/172.71.30.253|172.71.30.253]] 05:45, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
:It was "Out of Bounds memory access". That means it was trying to access a memory address that was out of the bounds of the computer, as if it were trying to access the ω-th index of the board array, which would put it out of the memory range of any computer [[User:Firestar233|guess who]] ([[User talk:Firestar233|if you want to]] | [[Special:Contributions/Firestar233|what i have done]]) 06:15, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
:: There is no hint that the bounds are those of the computer, the simplest explanation really is that the bounds are those of an array. The error message does come up. In addition, to try to access the memory at the ω-th index, you would need to construct the ω-th index itself first (which would fail or not terminate) [[User:Jmm|Jmm]] ([[User talk:Jmm|talk]]) 07:01, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
::: The specific message, "RuntimeError: Out of bounds memory access", is a WebGL error issuing from its WASM cross-platform browser implementation. This implies to me that an attempt to render an infinite chessboard failed in a fairly trivial way, because of a poor implementation. It's very unlikely that there had been a problem with the [https://github.com/official-stockfish/Stockfish/tree/master/src Stockfish playing algorithm] yet, which would have failed with a different message if it ran out of memory, such as "Killed", which is all that shells like Bash print when one of their job processes is killed by the kernel's OOM killer, or by anything else for that matter. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.215.21|172.70.215.21]] 12:58, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
:: If it were trying to access an index that was out of the range of the array, then it would probably have mentioned an index somewhere in the message, like "Out of Bounds index". However, it says that the "memory address" was "Out of Bounds," implying that it tried to access a physical memory address that was out of bounds. Anyways, it wouldn't make sense to use an unmodified version of Stockfish that would still expect on 8 rows for a larger chess board, as it's not a close approximation to having an infinite number of queens. [[User:Firestar233|guess who]] ([[User talk:Firestar233|if you want to]] | [[Special:Contributions/Firestar233|what i have done]]) 20:30, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Is this a reference to [https://youtu.be/rav29N0-h2c infinite chess by Naviary?] [[User:HaruruChanDesu|HaruruChanDesu]] ([[User talk:HaruruChanDesu|talk]]) 11:21, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

"it does not really need to consider the infinitely many pieces" => a chess Engine would need to consider the infinitely many pieces (or have a way to abstract them), even if some pieces are currently stuck because the engine recursively evaluates moves and counter-moves (i.e. evaluates the game up to some depth).{{unsigned ip|162.158.95.184|13:44, 5 December (UTC)}}

Is the cardinality of the set of all the pieces smaller than the cardinality of the set of all possible moves? My gut instinct says yes but I don't have the energy to muck around and see if I can prove it. If I did try I think that matrix diagonalization would be the first thing I'd try. Anybody less lazy than me on this? --[[User:Tomb|Tomb]] ([[User talk:Tomb|talk]]) 21:30, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
: The number of games is at least Beth one (cardinality of the continuum so uncountable). After some preliminary moves you can have a black queen on an otherwise empty row and a white queen in the black pawn row. Now on pairs of moves the black queen moves in its row so its column mode four is a base four digit while the white queen moves up one row to give the digits position. So we can map real numbers uniquely into games.
: The number of pieces is obviously countable.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.230.60|172.70.230.60]] 18:59, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
:: Thanks! --[[User:Tomb|Tomb]] ([[User talk:Tomb|talk]]) 19:12, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Can someone explain the linked joke with all the extra queens? I don't understand why it's a bad position. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.59.126|172.69.59.126]] 16:49, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
:Knight to d6. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.167.175|162.158.167.175]] 17:09, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
::...is checkmate by black. White can't capture the knight with either of the two queens that attack it because they're both pinned, by black's bishop and rook. (And we know it's black's turn to move because the colored squares indicate white just moved.) [[User:DKMell|DKMell]] ([[User talk:DKMell|talk]]) 17:54, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Expected some discussion here already on the best opening moves given a infinite board or at least the board depicted.
1. e3 e6 2. Qh5 seems a logical start, but not entirely sure what would happen after that?
Any ideas? [[User:Flekkie|Flekkie]] ([[User talk:Flekkie|talk]]) 22:56, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
:I think games will generally end in a draw by perpetual check that's something like:
:1. Qxd7+ Qxd7
:2. Qxd7+ (etc)
:It's tricky to prevent a player at a disadvantage from repeatedly sacrificing queens from further and further away down some file. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.54.138|172.68.54.138]] 02:43, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
::However, the rules of chess wouldn't cause this game to end in a draw since there are captures every turn, and captures reset the 50-move counter that triggers a draw. The players could agree to a draw - or perhaps the player at a disadvantage could hope to win by exhaustion, that is, by following this strategy indefinitely and hoping the other player collapses from weariness first. [[User:DKMell|DKMell]] ([[User talk:DKMell|talk]]) 03:27, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

:::This assumes no chess clock. Alas, what I just wrote assumes a classic chess clock. Some games use time rules that require a modern electronic clock and add time every move, which in this case brings back the "recaptures go on forever" problem. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.207.149|172.70.207.149]] 11:49, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Hit me up when this becomes real. I would like to try this out. [[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 12:29, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
:It should be easy enough. You will rarely get the queens out in play from deep in the array. So maybe just put two chess boars together and put some placeholder in for queens in the extra fields. If ever a queen in the bottom row is moved, place extra queens that can now be moved into the 2-3 squares that would be outside the board...--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:39, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
:It might be something one could set up in Infinite Chess, although having limits on the chessboard may be difficult. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.150.67|172.68.150.67]] 14:01, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
: Here's a finite approximation in ChessCraft: https://www.chesscraft.ca/design?id=5KM4 [[User:Promethean|Promethean]] ([[User talk:Promethean|talk]]) 15:37, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

While I understand how to play chess, I don't get the bit about "having a bunch of queens doesn't go very well". At first glance, the linked chess layout looks pretty solid. Can someone please enlighten me? Also, what does the TV Tropes link about Title Drop have to do with Infinite Armada, aside from that being the title of the comic? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.230.77|172.70.230.77]] 13:10, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
: ... Nd6. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.246|172.70.91.246]] 13:31, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
:: Ah, thanks. Moving the knight there puts the king in check, and moving either queen to take it exposes the king to the bishop or rook, so checkmate. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.63.38|162.158.63.38]] 15:05, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
:::<s>You are assuming that the opponent makes no moves while you spend at least three moves advancing your knight. Looks like either side can draw by always moving the king backwards whenever a queen has moved and made a hole he can move to and otherwise trying to make a new, deeper hole. Eventually he gets so far back that any attack turns into an infinite sequence of queens taking each other, with the attacker only having file attacks while the defender can retake from a rank, file, or diagonal. Any time the attacker breaks off the infinite sequence of queens taking each other to set up something else, the defender takes advantage of the break to move the king deeper and put more queens in front of him or to create more empty spaces to sidestep into when attacked. To me, this looks like a certain draw.</s> [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.252|172.69.33.252]] 16:21, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
::::They're talking about the linked layout at https://x.com/chesscom/status/1841540380363211164, not the layout in the comic. It only takes one move for the black knight to move to Nd6 and put the white king in checkmate. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.109.167|141.101.109.167]] 20:59, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

You might be able to get the developer of fairy stockfish ( https://fairy-stockfish.github.io/ ) to add this if you ask nicely. I have seen them add several reader requests. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.143|172.70.211.143]] 15:46, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Could this be a reference to the meme about "eating an infinite armada of pizza"? The wording seems too similar to be a coincidence. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.114.46|172.70.114.46]] 14:46, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Would this guarantee a draw between two competent players who'd played the variant before, or would there be more nuance to it than there appears to be?

Can someone explain the linked joke with all the extra queens? I don't understand why it's a bad position. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.59.125|172.69.59.125]] 16:48, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
: The explanation of the linked joke is that the king appears safe at first glance, but in reality there is a simple move that wins the game for black. Moving the black knight to the top left corner of the queen square checks the king. The king cannot move to escape. Two queens are in position to take the knight and save the white king, but both of those moves expose the king to attack from other black pieces (the rook or the bishop).
:: Wow. Not only did White give Black a mate in one, they also blundered a mate in one. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.167.176|162.158.167.176]] 20:21, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Really? This comic specifically references some obscure roblox game with like 350k visits? That can't be right. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.154.247|172.71.154.247]] 02:31, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
:I agree, it seems out of character for Randall to use something like that as a punchline. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.166.18|172.71.166.18]] 14:01, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
::Referencing a [[861: Wisdom Teeth|geeky, obscure subculture computer game]] that isn't (yet!) particularly well known..? Nope. Can't at all think why he'd suddenly do that out of the blue, just as a Genius Bonus... /s [[Special:Contributions/172.71.26.100|172.71.26.100]] 15:30, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

This was the variant played at the chess tournament held at David Hilbert's Grand Hotel. You'd think they would have struggled to fit infinitely large boards in the conference room, but they just kept moving the tables until they had enough space. [[User:RegularSizedGuy|RegularSizedGuy]] ([[User talk:RegularSizedGuy|talk]]) 08:01, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Clarifying "Surprisingly little memory to analyze conventional Chess": Without trying to "golf" the memory requirements, a board can be represented in 64 bytes, a reversible move in three bytes (start square, end square, piece captured). 40 moves without a pawn move or a capture is a draw, so the search stack is less than 5,680 moves. Two copies of the board (current search position, a board for looking back for detecting repeated positions), a few pointers for searching for moves to try: 20K of memory is plenty to search the entire Chess tree. And a truly unimaginably huge finite amount of time. (Golfers, start your carts!) [[Special:Contributions/172.68.55.12|172.68.55.12]] 12:08, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Queen to A9.56x10^14 -[[User:Psychoticpotato|P?sych??otic?pot??at???o ]] ([[User talk:Psychoticpotato|talk]]) 13:47, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Seems like a trivial win for white? Start w/ scholar's mate 1. e5 ... 2. Qh6, and just keep throwing queens at the king. It's much easier for the infinite queens to attack than to block and defend. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.154.76|172.71.154.76]] 18:21, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
:The problem is 1. e5 h6 2. Qxh6 Rxh6, if you keep trying to win h6 you’ll run out of queens that can move diagonally and black has an infinite supply moving vertically. 2. Qg4 Ng6 3. Qce2 seem like the logical next three moves? Except now black has a free move and a knight out. So at least it doesn’t seem trivial. I do think these games will be shorter than regular chess if they lead to a result, because long series of moves will tend to release the infinite queens. {{unsigned|Geoffk01}} 23:13, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

I cannot image this is not trying to reference https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSCNW1OCk_M , which recently resurfaced again. {{unsigned ip|172.70.114.35|18:57, 6 December 2024 (UTC)}}

3011: Europa Clipper

2024-11-14T14:26:19Z

172.71.26.100: /* Explanation */ Get rid of the unwarranted assertion that Europa (moon) was named after Europe (continent). Removed the "France" bit as an unnecessary and distracting link in the chain. Raised the prominance of the moon-surface quote (though different).

{{comic
| number = 3011
| date = November 13, 2024
| title = Europa Clipper
| image = europa_clipper_2x.png
| imagesize = 333x356px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = They had BETTER make this a sample return mission.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a JOVIAN DESSERT. Please consider deleting this tag too soon, but refrain from doing so.}}

[[File:Animation of Europa Clipper trajectory around Jupiter.gif|thumb|right|The ''Europa Clipper's'' projected course around {{w|Jupiter}}, represented as the stationary green dot. In gold is Jupiter's moon {{w|Callisto (moon)|Callisto}}, in cyan is the moon {{w|Europa (moon)|Europa}} — the primary target of the spacecraft's study — and in orange-red is the innermost of Jupiter's four {{w|Galilean moons|"Galilean"}} moons, {{w|Io (moon)|Io}}. The spacecraft's track is shown in magenta. Jupiter's largest moon {{w|Ganymede (moon)|Ganymede}} and its second largest moon {{w|Titan (moon)|Titan}} are not shown, but their gravitational pull affects the ''Clipper's'' trajectory. A mission goal is to achieve a 6:1 {{w|orbital resonance}} with Europa by September 2034.[https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Martin-Ozimek/publication/383115312_AAS_24-433_Europa_Clipper_Mission_Analysis_Pump_Down_Trajectory_Design/links/66bcd845311cbb094938dbd6/AAS-24-433-Europa-Clipper-Mission-Analysis-Pump-Down-Trajectory-Design.pdf] ]]

The ''{{w|Europa Clipper}}'' space probe was launched from the {{w|Kennedy Space Center}} in Florida on October 14, 2024. It is expected to arrive at Jupiter and begin exploration of Jupiter's moons, particularly {{w|Europa (moon)|Europa}}, in April of 2030.

Europa is an icy moon. Water ice covers its surface. Beneath the ice, there is expected to be liquid water, which might contain living microbes.[https://europa.nasa.gov/why-europa/ingredients-for-life/] To sample this liquid, its crust (water ice) would need to be broken.

In the comic, Europa's surface ice is likened to the caramel crust on the dessert ''{{w|crème brûlée}}''. To eat this dessert, its crust is broken with a spoon. To eat this dessert, its crust is broken with a spoon. The dessert is believed to have been [https://archive.org/details/lagastronomieaug00sabb/page/272/mode/2up invented in Europe], which ultimately appears to share an [[1010: Etymology-Man|etymological root]] with the moon's name (and thus the subsequent spacecraft), by way of {{w|Europa (consort of Zeus)|greek mythology}}. Thus [[Randall]] suggests the spacecraft might encounter crème brûlée, and has thus been equipped with a spoon for the purpose of collecting samples, as spoons are the traditional {{w|tableware}} provided for eating such desserts. More directly, the {{w|Cassini-Huygens}} probe, after landing on the surface of Saturn's moon Titan in 2005, found that ''its'' surface had what was described as [https://www.sciencenews.org/article/world-unveiled-cr%C3%A8me-br%C3%BBl%C3%A9e-titan a "crème brûlée" consistency], although there are significant differences between the two moons.

No such spoon is present on the ''Europa Clipper.''{{cn}} Its course is designed to avoid contact with Europa so as to prevent {{w|Planetary protection|contamination by microorganisms from Earth}}. The spacecraft is, however, equipped with a magnetometer at the end of a 8.5 meter deployable boom. Deployable instruments on spacecraft have often failed to deploy correctly, so the successful deployment of any instrument is considered a cause for celebration.

The title text expands on the joke by stating that the spacecraft "had BETTER" return samples of Europa to Earth. However, the ''Europa Clipper'' is not a {{w|sample-return mission}}.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[A space probe with two rectangular solar panels, a circular dish of the front, and a very large spoon extending beneath, longer than the span of both solar panels]

:[Below the panel:]
:Good news: NASA's '''''Europa Clipper''''' is en route to Europa and has successfully deployed its crème brûlée spoon.

==Trivia==
The Clipper spacecraft was at one point to be developed alongside a lander, which was later dropped from being part of the same (or very closely partnered) mission. The latest version of the {{w|Europa Lander}} proposal is far behind the Clipper in implementation, not yet even being guaranteed funding.

Any actual sample return mission is currently far into the future of {{w|Ocean Worlds Exploration Program|the related plans for exploration}}, along with the possibility of digging deep enough into the ice to finally confirm or dismiss some of the more interesting theories about the world concerned.

In Arthur C Clarke's novel '''2010''', the monolith aliens tell humanity ''"All these worlds are yours - except Europa. Attempt no landing there."'' Contrary to the suggestion of the comic, no landing or any other interaction with the surface of Europa is planned.

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Space]]
[[Category:Space probes]]
[[Category:Food]]

Talk:132: Music Knowledge

2024-11-09T12:01:17Z

172.71.26.100:

It may be worth noting that much of Freezepop's popularity comes from one of the band members being the music director for Guitar Hero and related games and slipping in their own songs. This got them an audience way beyond most synthpop bands (and I'm sure endorsements by people like Randall didn't hurt).

Of course the rest of their popularity comes from the fact that they wrote great music, made cute videos, and put on a fun live show. And that synthpop is just better than whatever you listen to. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.255.69|162.158.255.69]] 23:37, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
:He's not endorsing them, he's saying the name because he doesn't know how else to respond to the character's comment.—[[User:Kazvorpal|Kazvorpal]] ([[User talk:Kazvorpal|talk]]) 01:57, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

Oh, please. Queen, Bowie, and Joan blow Freezepop out of the water

^agreed.

This comic reminded me of the "technical school mathematician incident" in China. The student's "math knowledge" (similar to the "music knowledge" in this comic) was questioned. [[User:ConscriptGlossary|ConscriptGlossary]] ([[User talk:ConscriptGlossary|talk]]) 11:34, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
:You sound like we should know all about this. Maybe I'm an exception, but I can only very roughly guess what you're alluding to. (I'm guessing you're in, or from, China and it was huge national news there?) [[Special:Contributions/172.71.26.61|172.71.26.61]] 14:01, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
::Just now I found that her name was blocked by the search engine. The student made a lot of mistakes in her handwriting. It's not blurry - it's ''clearly'' wrong. The latest piece of news about her came out on November 3. [[User:ConscriptGlossary|ConscriptGlossary]] ([[User talk:ConscriptGlossary|talk]]) 08:50, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
:::Yeah, I hear that there can be "keyword filtering" over there when deemed necessary. Of course, we're probably more likely to hear about naval. incidents (or at least more likely to see documented cases about which ships nudged which other ships, etc) or what's happening to certain ethnic minorities, than the kind of thing you must he refering to. (For the sake of not making it troublesome for you, I'll avoid mentioning directly the more specific names/places/dates that might trigger the Great Firewall and/or deplete your 'social credit' if you're not already taking precautions against such scrutiny.)
:::I did a ''bit'' of searching for stories about this kind of thing, but could only come up with more generic recent problems (e.g. withdrawl of Advanced Placement results, for whole swathes of students), on top of several years of similar concerns that the system wasn't really consistent/satisfactory in the 'oversees' academic world. Sometimes it was seen as the parents(/students) trying to dodge the system, sometimes it was a 'higher up' systemic misrepresentation (achievement targets and quotas trying to be met?). Obviously it won't be in isolation, and not be uniquely one thing (nor internationally the only such problem spot). And no wonder that a more specific case of cheating(?) just doesn't notably pop up on our radar, here. I'm sure it's a fun story, but we'll just have to use our imaginations! [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.39|172.70.162.39]] 11:39, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
:her initials are jp [[Special:Contributions/172.71.26.100|172.71.26.100]] 12:01, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Talk:2875: 2024

2024-01-02T20:52:36Z

172.71.26.100:

It [[wikipedia:List of presidents of the United States by age|appears]] that only three US presidents so far have lived for over 30 years since their last election: Herbert Hoover, Jimmy Carter, and (technically) George H.W. Bush. One other (John Adams) had made it to 29. In addition, Gerald Ford had lived for over 29 years after the end of his presidency (and over 30 years after its start) but had technically never been elected. Of course none of those five were two-term presidents so they in any case would not have been restricted from further election by the 22nd amendment (and John Adams additionally wasn't affected by it due to having died prior to its ratification). --[[Special:Contributions/172.70.200.134|172.70.200.134]] 22:42, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
:I don't think he's suggesting that 30 years is enough -- that's only when half the tooth cells have been replaced. So we have to resort to dentistry and replace all the teeth. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 00:10, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

I've just made some "content and flow" edits to bring the Explanation up to a reasonable spec of explanatoriaciousness (which I fully expect to be buffed up and/or trimmed by others). I didn't ''directly'' explain that SCOTUS has nine (or more!) voting members, but there's the link(s) I added where this gets fairly well qualified for the person who might need to know this, and I refrained from suggestion reasons why one or both of the more recent Presidents might be best 'forgotten' (depending upon a person's own considerations on each matter), etc... I actually think that if all nine SCOTUSii all decided in one direction on the issues of Obama's teeth then it would be because of ideologically opposing views lining up by pure accident (e.g. some see/do not see pulling teeth as a valid way of becoming President for a third term, the rest see/do not see the pulling of teeth from Obama as laudible but would expect the next step to fail to happen for entirely separate reasons). And if someone definitely knows if FDR wore dentures (or not), particularly in his last five or so years, then that can surely be inserted as a valid (counter-)justifying fact. Anyway, probably done with my own polishing. For the moment, certainly. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.194.243|172.69.194.243]] 03:34, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
:According to the book [https://www.google.com/books/edition/Party_Politics_in_the_Age_of_Roosevelt/NttsEAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22franklin+d+roosevelt%22+dentures&pg=PA148&printsec=frontcover Party Politics in the Age of Roosevelt] by Michael P. Riccards and Cheryl A. Flagg, FDR did have a ''partial'' denture to replace two of his front teeth, but that wouldn't satisfy Ponytail's plan. --[[Special:Contributions/172.70.127.40|172.70.127.40]] 04:13, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

I don't understand the reference to there being only 8 justices on the Supreme Court ... As far as I can tell, on January 1 2024 there are 9, unless I'm missing something? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Court_of_the_United_States [[User:ModelD|ModelD]] ([[User talk:ModelD|talk]]) 11:00, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
:What reference? It says 9 - [[Special:Contributions/172.70.130.153|172.70.130.153]] 19:16, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
::It said 8 in some previous versions, like [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2875:_2024&oldid=331841 this one] [[Special:Contributions/172.71.26.100|172.71.26.100]] 20:52, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Is it worth mentioning that Ponytail is being inconsistent? She wants Obama to be considered a new person due to cellular replacement, so he can be elected ... because she likes him, and recognizes the "new" Obama as still being the President she liked. [[User:Nitpicking|Nitpicking]] ([[User talk:Nitpicking|talk]])
:Tell you what it also blows out of the water, though..? Any hint of 'birther' complaints. (Also might well be how Arnie had become a POTUS, in the future-history of Demolition Man!) [[Special:Contributions/172.69.194.226|172.69.194.226]] 15:18, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
:It's not really inconsistent. What she liked about him weren't his cells, but the way he governed. And just as the Ship of Theseus sails just as well after you replace all its planks, Obama will behave similarly after replacing his cells and teeth. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 20:09, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Wow! a vandal! fun! [[User:SomeoneIGuess|someone, i guess]]([[User talk:SomeoneIGuess|talk i guess]]|[[Special:Contributions/SomeoneIGuess|le edit list]]) 16:45, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
:Persistent. I just reverted again. [[User:Nitpicking|Nitpicking]] ([[User talk:Nitpicking|talk]]) 17:17, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
::who on earth vandalizes a comic wiki [[User:SomeoneIGuess|someone, i guess]]([[User talk:SomeoneIGuess|talk i guess]]|[[Special:Contributions/SomeoneIGuess|le edit list]]) 17:25, 2 January 2024 (UTC)