explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

Talk:1002: Game AIs

2025-02-14T11:40:17Z

799571388:

Mornington Crescent would be impossible for a computer to play, let alone win... {{unsigned|188.29.119.251}}
It is unclear which side of the line jeopard fall upon. Why so close to the line I wonder. [[User:DruidDriver|DruidDriver]] ([[User talk:DruidDriver|talk]]) 01:04, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

: Because of {{w|Watson (computer)}}. (Anon) 13 August 2013{{unsigned ip|24.142.134.100}}

Could the "CounterStrike" be referring instead to the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-Strike computer game] which can have computer-controlled players? --[[Special:Contributions/131.187.75.20|131.187.75.20]] 15:49, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

:I agree, this is far more likely. [[Special:Contributions/100.40.49.22|100.40.49.22]] 10:21, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

On the old blog version of this article, a comment mentioned Ken tweeting his method right after this comic was posted. He joked that they would asphyxiate themselves to actually see heaven for seven minutes. I don't know how to search for tweets, or if they even save them after so much time, but I thought it should be noted. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.161|108.162.237.161]] 07:11, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

I disagree about the poker part. Reading someone's physical tells is just a small part of the game. Theoretically there is a Nash equilibrium for the game, the reason why it hasn't been found is that the amount of ways a deck can be shuffled is astronomical (even if you just count the cards that you use) and you also have to take into account the various betsizes. A near perfect solution for 2 player limit poker has been found by the Cepheus Poker Project: http://poker.srv.ualberta.ca/.

~ Could the description of tic-tac-toe link to xkcd 832 which explains the strategy? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.152.173|162.158.152.173]] 13:13, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

Saying that computers are very close to beating top humans as of January 2016 is misleading at best. There is not enough details in the BBC article, but it sounds like the Facebook program has about a 50% chance of beating 5-dan amateurs. In other words, it needs a 4-stone handicap (read: 4 free moves) to have a 50% chance to win against top-level amateurs, to say nothing about professionals. If a robotic team could have a 50% chance to beating Duke University at football (a skilled amateur team), would you say they were very close to being able to consistently beat the Patriots (a top-level professional)? If anything that underestimates the skill difference in Go, but the general point stands. {{unsigned ip|173.245.54.38}}
: How about bearing one of the top players five times in a row and being scheduled to play against the world champion in March? http://www.engadget.com/2016/01/27/google-s-ai-is-the-first-to-defeat-a-go-champion/ [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 06:18, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
::However DeepMind ranked AlphaGo close to Fan Hui 2P and the distributed version has being at the upper tier of Fan's level. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v529/n7587/fig_tab/nature16961_F4.html
::The official games were 5-0 however the unofficial were 3-2. Averaging to 8-2 in favor of AlphaGo.
::Looking at http://www.goratings.org/ Fan Hui is ranked 631, while Lee Sedol 9P, whom is playing in March, is in the top 5.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.218.47|108.162.218.47]] 06:12 5 February 2016 (UTC)
:::Original poster here (sorry, not sure how to sign). Okay, you all are right. Go AI has advanced a lot more than I had understood. I'm still curious how the game against Lee Sedol will go, but that that is even an interesting question shows how much Go AI has improved. {{unsigned ip|173.245.54.33}}

Google's Alpha Go won, 3 games to none! Mid March 2016[[User:Saspic45|Saspic45]] ([[User talk:Saspic45|talk]]) 03:06, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

Okay, for some reason they played all five games. Lee Sedol won game 4 as the computer triumphed 4-1.[[User:Saspic45|Saspic45]] ([[User talk:Saspic45|talk]]) 08:44, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Not shown in this comic: {{w|1000 Blank White Cards}}, and, even further down, {{w|Nomic}}. [[User:KangaroOS|Kangaro]][[User talk:KangaroOS|OS]] 01:22, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Is the transcript (currently in table format) accessible for blind users? Should it be? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.58.237|162.158.58.237]] 10:48, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

At the very least the transcript needs to be fixed so that it factually represents the comic. Jeopardy is in the wrong spot with just a quick glance which is all I have time for here at work. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.231|162.158.62.231]] 16:58, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

AlphaStar beat Mana pretty decisively, but it was cheating and Mana won the game where it wasn't, and it could only play on a certain map in Protoss vs Protoss. However, that was a while ago. Google dropped AlphaStar on ladder under barcode usernames, and it's been doing rather well... but Serral (one of the world's best players) recently beat it pretty decisively. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.211.244|172.68.211.244]] 01:49, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

:In case anyone is checking up on the AlphaStar thing: AlphaStar definitely plays at a high human level in Starcraft 2 now (2020), without doing much that seems 'humanly impossible' (ie, like cheating, as it did during the MaNa matchup), but it's in relatively limited maps, and it not only loses fairly regularly if not most of the time to top-ranked humans like Serral, it also loses to essentially random grab-bags of very good players like Lowko on occasion. Like, Lowko's much better than me but he's not tournament-level good and he beat it.
:Also, technically, AlphaStar isn't even *one* program. It's an ensemble of many programs, each one specific to a different SC2 race and specializing in different strategies. Maybe if there were a 'seamless' amalgam where it were 'choosing' a strategy it could be arguably one program, but it's literally a totally separately trained neural network for each 'agent'.
:Furthermore, when you watch it play sometimes it does extremely stupid things like trap its tanks in its own base. SC2 is, at least this year, still a human endeavor at high tiers. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.38.44|172.68.38.44]] 01:21, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Who is Ken Jennings?

I feel like it should be relatively easy to make a computer program that can learn the rules of Mao without knowing them to begin with. There has to be some feedback: a player gets penalties if he breaks the rules. This can be used to write a self-learning algorithm.
: The tricky part is that rules in Mao aren't limited to a function that states whether or not you can play a card based on the cards already played. Rules can be about how you play the card, how you sit, what you say, what you do if you play a certain card, etc. Rules can also apply out of turn. You could be required to do something in reaction to another player doing something (e.g. congratulate a player if they play a King), or penalised for e.g. speaking to the player whose turn it currently is. In order for a computer to compete successfully, it would need to ingest a lot of peripheral information and run some sophisticated learning that accounts for far more than simply the state of the cards. Particularly within a regular group of players, there are rules that will be reused a lot, e.g. certain cards acting as Uno special cards, but there is no guarantee these will appear and players can make up arbitrary rules. --Tom

Sorry, but I just undid a new editor's addition of the text (for Snakes And Ladders) of "except that as the game has to be played on software so that an AI can participate, a (pseudo)-random number generator takes the place of physical dice in dictating players' movement, making it no longer truly random. Also, while physical snakes-and-ladders boards are fixed in their design, the graphical representation of these boards can be altered at will." - Firstly because it was bullet-point-added, when it wasn't really supposed to be, but then I decided it needed much more editing than I thought worthwhile. To bullet my thoughts, though:
* See the Beer Pong example for "AI in reality",
* Even if there's not a robot arm shaking a physical dice (which is pseudorandom itself, at least in a Newtonian perspective, but tends to be Ok) as long as the supposed-PRNG is not controlled/filtered by the AI then it's perfectly valid for use,
* Machine-vision is a thing. I'm sure there's a trivial way to make a generalised board-image-decoder to get around the artistic differences (possibly even machine learning, to make actual use of the AI).
....The main issue is that solving all these 'problems' leaves little for the backend 'gameplay and strategy' AI to do, as it must just pursue the path to victory (or not) that the dice/whatever formulaically dictate. So I want to honour the edit by mentioning it, but ultimately decided it should be undone. Pending perhaps a different approach to it, if anyone decides I was not fair (or correct) in my decision to do it this way. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.147|172.70.162.147]] 13:09, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

If Snakes and Ladders and Seven Minutes in Heaven are mentioned, why not [[wikipedia:Game of Life|Game of Life]]? --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.132|162.158.159.132]] 17:24, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
:That's (as I suspected) a disambiguation page, making me still wonder whether you mean {{w|Conway's Game of Life}} (which is a bit open-ended) or ''{{w|The Game of Life}}'' (which, if I remember the gameplay well enough is basically going to be the same luck-based-'challenge' as Snakes And Ladders with an expanded set of thematic bells-and-whistles added).
:Such a confluence of names, however, makes me want to suggest {{w|Mastermind (board game)}} (well within 'solved' for just brute-force logic) or {{w|Mastermind (British game show)}} (you'd definitely need a Watson-level AI, though you probably you could zhoosh it up with a ChatGPT front-end). [[Special:Contributions/172.71.242.160|172.71.242.160]] 19:04, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

I'm a little late to say this, but '''Update for Go:''' In early 2023, Kellin Pelrine defeated KataGo and Leela Zero, not by being a top player, but by employing an unusual strategy that the AIs couldn't detect, even though most human players could. (Admittedly, the strategy itself was found by yet another AI). [https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/02/man-beats-machine-at-go-in-human-victory-over-ai/] [https://www.pcgamer.com/a-human-has-beat-an-ai-in-possibly-the-most-complex-board-game-ever/] [[User:Hhhguir|Hhhguir]] ([[User talk:Hhhguir|talk]]) 07:33, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

Update: Now 'AI' (well, LLM actually) learns to cheat playing chess [[User:799571388|799571388]] ([[User talk:799571388|talk]]) 11:40, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

Talk:3045: AlphaMove

2025-02-14T11:34:27Z

799571388:

Ask Tom Murphy VII to get on this [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.103|141.101.99.103]] 22:50, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

This has actually been done and tested against other strange algorithms:
https://youtu.be/DpXy041BIlA?t=729

I have attempted to run the proposed bot against itself — if I haven't made any errors, here are the resulting games:

Rounding down:
1. e4 e6 2. f3 f5 3. e5 g5 4. d4 d5 5. exd6 g4 6. d7+ Kf7 7. dxc8=N Ke8 8. fxg4 h6 9. gxf5 Kd7 10. g4 h5 11. fxe6+ Ke8 12. g5 Na6 13. h3 Nc5 14. h4 Ne7 15. Kd2 Ne4+ 16. Ke1 Nf5 17. g6 Nf6 18. g7 Ng3 19. gxf8=N Nge4 20. Ke2 Ng4 21. Kf3 Ngf2 22. Ke2 Nh3 23. Ke3 Nhf2 24. Nb6 Nh3 25. Na4 Nhf2 26. Nac3 Nxc3 27. Kxf2 Nxd1+ 28. Kf3 Qc8 29. c4 Ne3 30. Ke4 Nf5 31. Kd3 Ng3 32. e7 Nxh1 33. Kc2 Qb8 34. d5 Kxe7 35. d6+ Kf6 36. dxc7 Nf2 37. c8=R Ng4 38. Kd2 Nh2 39. Ke3 Ng4+ 40. Kd4 Nh2 41. Kd5 Nxf1 42. Nc3 Nh2 43. Nce2 Ng4 44. Nd4 Nh6 45. Nd7+ Kf7 46. Ndf3 Qd6+ 47. Ke4 Qd2 48. Nf8 Qd5+ 49. Ke3 Qd2+ 50. Ke4 Qd5+ 51. Ke3 Qd2+ 52. Ke4

Rounding up:
1. f3 f5 2. e4 f4 3. d4 e6 4. e5 g6 5. g3 fxg3 6. c3 g2 7. d5 gxf1=Q+ 8. Kxf1 exd5 9. Ke2 d6 10. Kd3 g5 11. Kd2 dxe5 12. Ke2 d4 13. Kd3 dxc3+ 14. Ke3 e4 15. Ne2 exf3 16. Ng1 f2 17. Nxc3 fxg1=N 18. Qc2 Kd7 19. Ne2 h6 20. Qa4+ Ke6 21. Qb3+ Ke7 22. Qb4+ Ke8 23. Qb5+ Kf7 24. Qa6 Kg7 25. Qa4 Kg6 26. Qb3 Kg7 27. Qb4 Kh7 28. Qb5 Kg7 29. Qa6 Nc6 30. Nxg1 Na5 31. Qb6 Kh7 32. Qb3 Kg6 33. Qb4 Kg7 34. Qb6 Kh7 35. Qb3 Kg6 36. Qb4 Kg7 37. Qb6

Rounding down code:
const { Chess } = require("chess.js");

const chess = new Chess();
while (!chess.isGameOver()) {
const moves = chess.moves();
moves.sort((a, b) => b.localeCompare(a));
const move = moves[Math.floor(moves.length / 2)];
chess.move(move);
}
console.log(chess.pgn());

To round up, swap the a and b in the sort function.

Both games end in a threefold repetition draw. The game with rounding down does, in fact, have 6 knights in it, so I believe he did code this to see what would happen.

[[User:Ohpointfive|Ohpointfive]] ([[User talk:Ohpointfive|talk]]) 22:52, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

To elaborate on the Tom VII point - this is the YouTube video that possibly inspired the comic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpXy041BIlA [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.179|141.101.98.179]] 22:55, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
:Specifically, it's the [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpXy041BIlA&t=1483 Arithmetic Player at 24:43] set to ½. [[User:ChaoticNeutralCzech|ChaoticNeutralCzech]] ([[User talk:ChaoticNeutralCzech|talk]]) 17:52, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

Unfortunately for white, it's mate in 1 with Bb4# [[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.124|162.158.90.124]] 23:25, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

Even if white makes a different move, its still forced mate in one. RIP XKCD Bot. [[User:Redacted II|Redacted II]] ([[User talk:Redacted II|talk]]) 00:53, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
:Well, for most options. Queen to a4 puts Black in check, forestalling an immediate move to mate White; capturing the knight de-threatens enough squares around the king that Black can't check next turn without leaving an escape route. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.176.28|172.70.176.28]] 17:45, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

<s>Although it wouldn't change the outcome much (either by changing black's move or white's general options), I'm currently not understanding why Kd4 isn't on the list of options at this point in time. So long since I played serious(ish) chess, and the only reason I could think of is that it's probibited by some strict ortbodox game rule recognising the ''potential'' moving of the knight out of the way (in the next white move-cycle). But I'd have treated that later option as forbidden, as a revealing-mate. But, as I said, it's been a while, so maybe I'm just blind to something like a sweeping bishop-range that disbars this (much as the near knight, bishop and pawn disbars four out of the five moves).</s> ...darn, it's just clicked. That's the AlphaMoved white-knight's destination (before that, the black queen was entirely covering that square, and double-teaming one of the adjacent black-knight covered squares), I'd been thinking that was the piece's origin (with the empty highlighted square as its destination) until I'd finally read the highlighted movelist item properly and deciphered it as Knight To King Two (done), not the (intention of) Knight To King's Bishop One. So ignore the above. Although, just to note, for the Black Queen to have even achieved that position would probably have required at least ''one'' normally-sacrificial exposure to the deadly white Q/B/R pieces guarding the obvious entry, give or take the algorithmic development of their (and the "gateway pawns"') current positions. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.104|141.101.99.104]] 02:00, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
:Follow-up... As far as the black queen is concerned, I suppose she could have done d6, (x?)g3 then f2, in-between the other black and white moves made, largely safe from the white 'defence'. Or to d4 then f2, if white Queen's Pawn was shielding still. (Appears to have been taken, but it would have been bold to have done that with the queen, for a normally immediate pawn-queen exhange!) A bolder/more opportunistic set of moves than I would have tried, either. Even (unknowingly) against AlphaMove, I'd have been wary of the unconventionally developing white disposition actually being an idiot-trap (and I'm really not that far off being an idiot, insofar as chess). [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.162|172.70.162.162]] 02:17, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

The explanation gives both O-O and 0-0 as notations for castling and then explains why 0-0 can never occur, even though O-O can be sorted pretty centrally. So, which is the correct notation? [[Special:Contributions/172.71.250.91|172.71.250.91]] 09:14, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
:According to the [https://ia802908.us.archive.org/26/items/pgn-standard-1994-03-12/PGN_standard_1994-03-12.txt pgn spec], section 8.2.3.3: they are capital Os and not zeros [[Special:Contributions/172.68.3.96|172.68.3.96]] 15:10, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure we're looking at a retrograde puzzle. [[User:Ohpointfive|Ohpointfive]] is onto something here, with the six knights on the board a strong indicator. The question is, of course, where is the joke? White plays Alphamove all along and must have started with e4 (rounding down) or f3 (rounding up). Both are consistent with the end position. So from my point of view, the joke is
* either that the "stronger engine" is not a strong engine at all but maybe the same algorithm, rounding up instead of down
* or that black doesn't win this position (in real chess, White is of course toast) because its algorithm is even worse
@Ohpointfive, could you run the two versions against each other? --[[User:Pganon|Pganon]] ([[User talk:Pganon|talk]]) 15:55, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

I created a playable version of this game in like 10 minutes using ChatGPT ;)

https://enn-nafnlaus.github.io/AlphaMove/alphamove.html

Git page here:

https://github.com/enn-nafnlaus/AlphaMove

-- [[User:Rei|Rei]] 17:52, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

I checked, castling and en passant both work. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.245.25|172.68.245.25]] 19:26, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

@Pganon certainly:
White rounding down vs. black rounding up:
1. e4 f5 2. f3 f4 3. d4 e6 4. e5 g6 5. d5 exd5 6. g3 fxg3 7. c4 g2 8. h3 gxf1=Q+ 9. Kd2 Kf7 10. Kc3 Ke8 11. Kc2 Kf7 12. Kb3 Ke8 13. Kc2 Kf7 14. Kb3 Ke8 15. Kc2
White rounding up vs. black rounding down:
1. f3 e6 2. e4 f5 3. e5 g5 4. d4 d5 5. f4 gxf4 6. h3 h5 7. h4 Kd7 8. Kd2 Kc6 9. Kd3 Kb6 10. Ke2 Kb5 11. Ke1+ Kb4 12. Ke2 Kb5 13. Ke1+ Kb4 14. Ke2 Kb5

The first game is quite exciting, with black at one point having a chance at checkmate in one, but alas too many available pawn moves drives the winning move Qxc4# far past the center of the list. The second game is much less exciting.

[[User:Ohpointfive|Ohpointfive]] ([[User talk:Ohpointfive|talk]]) 21:30, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

Here's a question: What is the quickest way to checkmate AlphaMove? Here's the quickest that I have found so far:
# f3 d5
# e4 d5xe4
# f4 e5
# g3 Bg4
# d4 Qxd4
# f5 e3
# f6 Qxd1#
Thus, we have mate in seven. This might be good to mention outside the comments section as a demonstration tha AlphaGo is not very good (not to mention failing to attack black's queen with a less valuable piece), but a quicker checkmate might be possible, in which case we should mention that instead.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.207.159|172.70.207.159]] 11:08, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

: Checkmating Alphamove is easy. Getting checkmated *by* Alphamove is challenging. You basically have to forget everything you know about normal chess. -- [[User:Rei|Rei]] ([[User talk:Rei|talk]]) 14:48, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

:: Fastest mate against Alphamove playing Black 3 moves (natural max), White 5 moves (exhaustive search), selfmate 9 moves - problem composers and mathematicians solve that in a jiffy. See here: https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/46651/fastest-win-against-xkcds-alphamove [[Special:Contributions/172.70.248.29|172.70.248.29]] 09:11, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

One possible move, Kd2, is missing! /[[Special:Contributions/141.101.76.164|141.101.76.164]] 17:41, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
:That can't be done. The Knight isn't between d2 and the Q@f2 at the point that the moves are being compiled. The Ne2 hasn't happened yet (we now see it, as having moved there, ''as a result'' of Ne2 being selected from the list, so ''next'' turn the King could move there, assuming the game isn't lost (or black decides to do something ''else'' which prevents it, for some strange reason). [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.25|162.158.74.25]] 18:47, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

I [https://lichess.org/analysis/r1b1k2r/1pp1nppp/8/p1b1p3/2PnpP1P/2K5/PP3q2/RNBQ1BNR_w_kq_-_0_1?color=white put the position before White's move into Lichess] and it says it's mate in 12 for Black.

On a related note, I'm also wondering how they got to the comic position in the first place. Anyone want to try constructing a proof game? [[User:Arcorann|Arcorann]] ([[User talk:Arcorann|talk]]) 03:30, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

A lot of the explanation is based on a round-up version of AlphaMove. It should round down for even lists like the title text says. The [https://enn-nafnlaus.github.io/AlphaMove/alphamove.html example implementation] is wrong too. The first move should be e4, not f3. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.187.55|162.158.187.55]] 07:25, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

If there ever was an explanation that needed to be broken up into three paragraphs and a Detail section, this is it. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.142.30|172.71.142.30]] 17:19, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

It is not mentioned what happens when there is a tie for the middle move (for an even number of possible moves). Is it then chosen "at random"? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.155.102|162.158.155.102]] 19:38, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
:The title text discusses it, so presumably that's the principle we should consider at play. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.6.110|162.158.6.110]] 21:23, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

Why is there still a pawn on a2? It would seem that a3 would be the first move, followed by a4. {{unsigned ip|172.69.135.191|23:20, 3 February 2025 (UTC)}}
: a3 would be the first ''in the list'' for the compilation of first move (then a4, then [b-h] x [2-3], then four "N"-moves. The middle of the list would therefore (depending upon round-up or round-down) "e4" or "f3". Assuming e4, the next white move list is going to be seven pawns that can move to self.3 or self.4, one that can move to self.5, with some B-moves between b4 and c3, a K-move, five N-moves and a number of Q-moves. pawn on a2 just doesn't get a look-in, move-wise, at least not until after a lot of moves (possibly designed by the opponent ''specifically' to remove moves from anything that isn't pawn-move from a2 to a3 or a4. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.33.252|162.158.33.252]] 15:48, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

What does this mean? The current explanation includes a paragraph starting with "The actual middle of the list might vary away from the usual alphabetic median if the moves (and the pieces removed by the opponent) are heavily biased to a particular subset of player-pieces." I can't make head or tail of this, but maybe that's just 'cause I'm dumb. Why would the middle of the list be different from the median? It should be re-worded to be clearer, or perhaps removed. [[User:DKMell|DKMell]] ([[User talk:DKMell|talk]]) 22:43, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
: As an example, when the King is in check, there are far fewer legal moves, but they might include (or be limited to) interposing with a bishop, so that a bishop actually does get moved. That differs from the _usual_ median, even though the median function is still being used. [[User:JimJJewett|JimJJewett]] ([[User talk:JimJJewett|talk]]) 06:56, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
: Several ways of reading "alphabetic median", one is that, in a-z, the m/n point is the median, or divide between the two halves. But of course not all letters are used (a-h as no-prefix pawn-destinations, B, K, N, Q, R as non-pawn prefices to destinations, a capturing pawn-move will start with x (of a-h and ''then'' an x, if needing disambiguationg, and then there's O-O and O-O-O). That's already overbalanced, so that 'g' is the 'middle' of the first-letters (unweighted by whatever actual opportunities, or lack of them, there are).
: But, in any given board position, the lower-case letters tend to be pawns with (initially) two possible moves, generally just one move, ''maybe'' up to four (a first-move pawn given 1/2-step forward options ''and'' given two different options to capture away from its current file, where near-neighbour pawns require the disambiguation to be used) A queen can (where not restrained, until (possible capturing whilst) hitting the edge-of-board) have 28 moves (seven positions front/back, seven left/right, similar on the two diagonals). Rooks and Bishops might have 14 move-to positions. The kNight might have up to 8 'landing spots'. Initially, apart from the kNight with two moves, they of course have no opportunity to do anything. As the game develops, though, whatever you prior preconceived 'median' might be, in the alphabetically-sorted list, the gaining (by gaining opportunity to move) eand losing (by a piece being capture) adjusts the move-state's 'middle' of all valid-moves up and down the alphabet. Probably never as far as an unambiguous pawn-capture, or a first-file pawn move (or disambiguated capture from that positions), but it'll change a lot.
: How to concisely explain this, I don't know. Especially as I'm just running off the various possibilities off the top of my head, and might have forgotten some of the 'algebraic' notation's subtleties. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.33.252|162.158.33.252]] 15:48, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

This comic reminds me of suckerpinch's "Elo World" video, where he made a whole bunch of similarly single-minded chess engines and ranked them against each other. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpXy041BIlA - If I recall correctly there was an alphabet-based one but it picked the first result rather than the middle result. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.23.136|172.68.23.136]] 01:01, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

Is there any series of moves to be checkmated by alphamove?[[User:799571388|799571388]] ([[User talk:799571388|talk]]) 11:34, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

Talk:3040: Chemical Formulas

2025-01-21T21:04:15Z

799571388:

I believe the diagram on the left incorrectly shows a double-bond between the carbon and the OH pair. -- [[User:Dtgriscom|Dtgriscom]] ([[User talk:Dtgriscom|talk]]) 03:13, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
:: ''"incorrectly shows a double-bond"'' This may be more correct (there are many ways to draw it):
:: https://www.shutterstock.com/image-vector/formic-acid-molecule-structure-260nw-1359283460.jpg [[User:PRR|PRR]] ([[User talk:PRR|talk]]) 03:42, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
:::what’s a double bond? '''[[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]][[User talk:42.book.addict|Talk to me!]]''' 04:25, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
:::: if a hydrogen atom had hands it would have one and could only hold other atoms with one hand. Some atoms have more than one hand and in the case of a double bond can hold another atom with two hands. I almost recall something about electron orbits and spaces. I hope this isn't to unhelpful.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.242.58|108.162.242.58]] 05:08, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::ohhhh, i think i get it now. thanks! '''[[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]][[User talk:42.book.addict|Talk to me!]]''' 05:19, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::For the molecules concerned (and ignoring some more exotic situations), you just need to know that;
::::::*Hydrogen should have only one bond in total (H-C... or H-O..., in whatever direction. An H-H would be H2, or hydrogen (probably!) gas unbonded to anything else).
::::::*Oxygen should have two bonds (...X-O-Y... as part of a link between X and Y, like the (acceptibly abbreviated) -OH ('hydroxy') group attached to a carbon; or ...C=O, as oxygen double-bonded to a carbon with those two bonds available). H-O-H would be water (H2O), O=O would be the pure oxygen molecule (O2).
::::::*Carbon has ''four'' bonds, which can be:
::::::**Four singles, often with alkane links, ...C-C... with three things (more carbons, hydrogens or hydroxys/etc) hanging off as well, as part of a hydrocarbon/similar, starting with CH4 which has ''only'' hydrogens hanging directly off the one and only carbon, longer chained alkanes string carbons together with two hydrogens off of each mid-carbon (in three-or-more chains) and a third completing each end.
::::::**Two singles and a double, like the ...C=O with two further off-shoots, or else an ...C=C... as an alkene link (with two things/continuations of carbon hanging off each of the ends of that carbon-pair),
::::::**''Two'' doubles (cumulenes, like ...C=C=C..., are rare, but O=C=O is the really common CO2/carbon dioxide molecule in its entirety), or
::::::**A single and a triple, typically back-to-back as alkynes, ...-C≡C-..., ''or'' something like -C≡N (nitrogen has exactly three bonds!) for a cyano-group, but it's often a strained group.
::::::**A quadruple-bond would be... beyond this basic overview.
::::::**(Benzene rings effectively have 1.5 shared links between the adjacent carbons, or alternating single/double three times round the six Carbon-Carbon links, leaving one "hang off" bond from each of them, without bothering which ring-bonds are single or double.)
::::::**(Graphene sheets effectively have three singles, plus "two halves" weakly bonding to adjacent graphene sheets, in actual graphite; or whatever else fun thing you're doing with graphene/nanotubes/buckyballs ''singly''...)
::::::If you check the "Hackoo", the C has ''five'' bonds (at least until and unless Randall corrects it!), the error most obviously (just from the above knowledge!) because the O in the -OH (i.e. -O-H) has three bonds (...C=O-H) where it should only have two (...C-O-H).
:::::::If I still had access to the university and its DFT calculator, I'd be tempted to do a run how stable the ion HC+=O=O+H would be (HCOOH with two electrons removed, charge at C and O), the only way to make sense of the formula. And write an April article for the regular column of the German Chemists Society Newsletter. Here is the data of the monocation: https://atct.anl.gov/Thermochemical%20Data/version%201.140/species/?species_number=731 ...wait, did I just nerdsnipe myself?[[Special:Contributions/172.71.148.103|172.71.148.103]] 08:48, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::It can perhaps be explained as an interestingly radical-enhanced number of bonds, though you'd notate it differently (in diagram ''and'' formula) and it wouldn't really be the ethanoic/formic acid that Cueball(/Randall) clearly intends it to be. Simple slip of the stylus, maybe, from someone more a physical scientist who [[520: Cuttlefish|isn't always affiliated to chemical sciences]], so may not have realised when glancing at the 'finished' comic. (Or it's yet another (too?) subtle dig at the Cueball character that he's set up to fail/be creatively-wrong.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.108|172.70.90.108]] 07:01, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

Similar to 2492 [[User:Chakra|Chakra]] ([[User talk:Chakra|talk]]) 03:18, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

My favorite hydrocarbons are C6H6 (Bouba) and C5H12 (Kiki) [[Special:Contributions/172.69.70.105|172.69.70.105]] 03:21, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

I assume 'Nackle' is NaCl (Sodium Chloride, aka salt) [[User:Pvnic|Pvnic]] ([[User talk:Pvnic|talk]]) 03:30, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
: for blood pressure reasons I use fake salt = potassium chloride. Note to self: don't say "please pass the kackle" because at best at best I'd get a funny look and a chicken nugget. (Thinking) Or do. Chicken nuggets are good.[[Special:Contributions/172.68.245.179|172.68.245.179]] 04:41, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
::Wouldn't that be more like "kickle" or "keckle"? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.212.173|162.158.212.173]] 07:10, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
And in the meta-humor department, the explanation message "Created by a BORON-OXYGEN-TANTALUM-URANIUM-TITANIUM-MOLYBDENUM-TITANIUM-CARBON-ALUMINUM-LITHIUM" abbreviates to "B O Ta U Ti Mo Ti C Al Li", or "BOT aUTiMoTiCaLLi". [[User:Jordan Brown|Jordan Brown]] ([[User talk:Jordan Brown|talk]]) 04:27, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
: OH! Thank you. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.245.179|172.68.245.179]] 04:41, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
:: In my family, we actually do (occasionally) call it "nackle", so I updated the explanation accordingly. [[User:Gbisaga|Gbisaga]] ([[User talk:Gbisaga|talk]]) 16:25, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

Guilty as charged! (And I got a Ph.D. in chemistry...) [[Special:Contributions/172.68.195.130|172.68.195.130]] 08:35, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

The 'put it on a plate' and 'take with a pinch of salt' stuff all seems a bit of a stretch.[[Special:Contributions/172.69.194.59|172.69.194.59]] 10:08, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
:I don't see any sign that anybody would anyone be literally requiring salt, so more probably is one or other figurative use. "Are you upset? I don't ''care'' you're upset. Pass the salt... Mmmmm..." from our Cueball or "Yeah, so I'm hearing what you're telling me, but I'm gonna ignore your inane mutterings, so pass the salt...". Or maybe from a similar sort of vein as "Are you salty about that? I think you're salty, boo-hoo!" sarcastic response. There are plenty of possible phrases using the substance in analogy, and I'm sure others could be imagined by anyone worth their salt. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.246|172.70.91.246]] 14:45, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

I wonder if this is inspired by people in Cyberpunk 2077 pronouncing CHOOH2 (the fuel cars are powered by in universe) as "chew two." [https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/CHOOH2#:~:text=CHOOH2%20is%20not%20actually%20the%20chemical%20formula%2C%20it%27s%20just%20a%20moniker%20for%20marketing%20purposes. Game wiki page.] [[Special:Contributions/172.69.22.31|172.69.22.31]] 17:50, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

Edible oil analysis is now like B-Box [[User:799571388|799571388]] ([[User talk:799571388|talk]]) 21:04, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

Talk:3014: Arizona Chess

2024-11-27T08:45:53Z

799571388:

I added a basic explanation, how did I do? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.115.129|172.70.115.129]] 14:56, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
:''pat pat'' Good job. [[User:Fephisto|Fephisto]] ([[User talk:Fephisto|talk]]) 15:28, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
I guess chess timers work based on the IERS. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.223.126|172.71.223.126]] 15:32, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
: See "{{w|Chess_clock|chess clocks}} don't work that way" comment, below. If they did, they would almost certainly reference {{w|Coordinated_Universal_Time|Zulu time}}, which doesn't recognize daylight saving or other local time adjustments. This would go badly for Cueball. Moreover, White Hat could be forgiven for thinking that he had won the game when the clock went "beep" in the third panel, because beeping/flag falling in a chess clock should signal end of match because Cueball's time had run out (the fourth panel asserts that Cueball's time did not, in fact, expire). A minor additional irregularity in what is already a seriously contrived situation. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.23.91|172.68.23.91]] 20:34, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
:: The "beep" is probably triggered by the clock falling back from DST rather than going to zero, since we can see in the 4th panel that there are more than 60 minutes left after the change.[[Special:Contributions/172.71.122.111|172.71.122.111]] 11:39, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
::: 'Zactly. But beeping for any reason other than flag-falling (time expired) would not be expected in a real-world (i.e., not an xkcd-world) chess clock. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.41.98|162.158.41.98]] 17:00, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
:'Real-world' chess clocks don't beep when the flag falls - so White Hat wouldn't think he had won the game when it beeps. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.150|172.68.205.150]] 12:04, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
:No, chess clocks don't work that way. They are simple timers that do not refer to actual time of day in any way, any more than a stopwatch does. Randall just made it work that way for the sake of the joke. {{unsigned ip|172.71.194.17|20:17, 20 November 2024}}
::Speaking from the experience of one in a sport where some are seeking to "improve" upon the use of a manual stopwatch/timer process with a computerised replacement (anything from a smartphone to a home-computer, often with a live online connection), I'm seeing several cases where time differences between equipment (e.g. GPS time vs. 'radio'/time-signal time) has caused confusion, never mind the possibility of random external events (...OS Update notifications, AV scans going active, etc) or other external interferences. In ways that would never happen to a dedicated timing device that's not even listening out for a national time-signal broadcast (which I know for certain can suffer from interference).
::Also, in case anybody is bothered, it's not really a "clock" if it doesn't have a bell (or bells), as per the German "Glocke"/French: "Cloche". Although possibly a single-match "chess clock" could have such a bell for an audible alert, as well as other mechanical 'flag' indicators. But, often, what most people might call a clock is perhaps more just a "timepiece". (Watches/stopwatches/timers/etc, is another matter of sub-distinction, which I try not to be too confusing, or even wrong, about.) [[Special:Contributions/172.69.194.226|172.69.194.226]] 00:53, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

If white hat had conserved 20 seconds through the course of the game, they would have won. Cueball must have been sweating if they were relying on this strategy. [[User:Radialsymmetry|Radialsymmetry]] ([[User talk:Radialsymmetry|talk]]) 15:35, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
:Cueball may have been deliberately letting the time run down on this move for quite a while, so that it would have greater effect when the change happened at almost the last second.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.126|172.70.85.126]] 12:21, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Here's one building that might qualify (it appears to be a shed or outbuilding belonging to a house in Mesquite, Nevada): https://www.google.com/maps/@36.808703609641505,-114.05009436731552,55m
 I believe that's the only one that straddles the Arizona border with a Pacific Time Zone state (California and Nevada), so (head-)canonically, that's where the comic is set. {{unsigned ip|172.69.6.190|17:15-26, 20 November 2024}}
: It could be in a temporary structure - a marquee or something.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.118|172.70.90.118]] 10:34, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
:This would also work on the Utah or New Mexico borders, since they fall back too. Or along the Navajo Nation border, which spans multiple states and observes DST in all of them. Though Cueball indicates he's not in Arizona. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.234|172.70.211.234]] 01:24, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Is the neighbouring state {Utah or New Mexico} or {Nevada or California}? I'm not from the US so I'm not sure how your rules work. 172.69.6.190 above seems to think it's the latter but aren't they both on Mountain Time before the clocks change? {{unsigned|Mtcv|08:57, 21 November 2024}}

One difference between the way parts of North America change time and the way parts of Europe do is that the various North American time zones fall back/jump forward at 2AM local time, while European time zones all change at the same instant (01:00 UTC/WET (02:00 CET, 03:00 EET). That means that the same "trick" could work by sitting on the line between any American time zones at the changeover, but not by sitting on the European lines. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.47.138|172.70.47.138]] 15:37, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
:In the US this would not work, since the time would be different over the time zone, and thus the chess clocks that are based on the actual time would run different before. In Arizona there are the situation that only the other state changes it's time. This would work for instance on the border to Nevada, where the two states have the same time in the summer as Nevada's timezone is one hour behind Arizona but then the same time during daylight saving time. Thus sitting in the border house on the Hoover dam it would be possible for the one on the west side to be in Nevada and the east side in Arizona. And when DTS stops, the one in Nevada would gain an hour, but not the one in Arizona. And before they would have had the same time. This would thus also work in Europe if one country did not use DTS and the other did along a time zone border. And this will only work when DTS ends. As it happens have only been in the US once, taking a course in Las Vegas. But on the one day off we took a road trip to Gran Canyon and passed Hoover Dam. And then we drove over a time zone line, the only time I have tried that... And then the time did not change due to the lack of DTS in Arizona... What a disappointment... :-) But the rest of the trip was great. Crazy places the dam and Gran Canyon. (As well as Las Vegas, living in a hotel on the Strip). Also just watched the TV series The Queens Gambit where chess timers are used extensively, and of course they do not work digitally. But I love one more of Randall's quibs against the stupidity of DTS. Can't wait till we stop with that stupidity. ;-) Great TV series by the way! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:42, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
:: I'd recommend reviewing what you just wrote. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.98.220|172.71.98.220]] 16:52, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
A related oddity occurs in the City of The Gold Coast, in Australia, which straddles the Queensland/New South Wales border. The border runs through a built up area, and as NSW has DST but Queensland does not, there are places that are, for one hour each year, in different years, despite being only a few metres apart. You can celebrate the New Year at a bar in Tweed Heads, then cross the road to a bar in Coolangatta, and celebrate the New Year all over again an hour later. I believe this is the only border in the world that runs through a built up area and has different timezones at New Year; New Year being in winter in the Northern Hemisphere means that such DST related anomolies are strictly a Southern Hemisphere phenomenon. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.64.206|172.68.64.206]] 00:09, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
: "''I believe this is the only border in the world that runs through a built up area''" Definitely possible. I couldn't inagine the difficulties of setting a lunch date with a group and having to confirm the timezone as well as the time, every single time. In most locations with cross-border cities, the smaller one is permitted to observe the time zone of the larger one, allowing Gary Indiana to watch Chicago television on "local time". Most of Mexico doesn't observe DST, except cities adjacent to US areas that do. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_Mexico#IANA_time_zone_database]. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.76.137|141.101.76.137]] 19:33, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

:check these two [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baarle-Nassau Dutch] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baarle-Hertog Belgian] towns. --[[Special:Contributions/172.69.225.154|172.69.225.154]] 00:32, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

:: All time should be LST (Local Solar Time). Occupy those smartphones with tasks that are actually useful, and keep AI so busy that it can't spare a thought to world domination. 👹 [[Special:Contributions/172.71.151.165|172.71.151.165]] 02:20, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

:: Me again. Yep, I'm aware of Baarle. It's clear from context that the person who mentioned Gold Coast was referring to ''time observance borders'', rather than ''jurisdictional borders''. Baarle is not relevant in this case, as both Belgium and the Netherlands both observe the same time zone and DST rules. {{unsigned ip|172.71.102.53|14:54, 22 November 2024}}

Should the comment about Hawaii be kept? It seems irrelevant. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.111.129|172.70.111.129]] 15:42, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
:removed [[user talk:lettherebedarklight|youtu.be/miLcaqq2Zpk]] 16:15, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Which songs would go well with this scene? His World comes to mind... [[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 17:13, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
:''...con Lentitud Poderosa'' right as the crazy part starts. 100%. -[[User:Psychoticpotato|P?sych??otic?pot??at???o ]] ([[User talk:Psychoticpotato|talk]]) 02:03, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Fun, incredibly niche point: the chess clock is not in the preferred location; from Black's perspective (hat guy), the clock is on the left, not the right. (6.4, https://www.scoutresources.org.uk/downloads/ideabase_chessrules.pdf ; not very authoritative URL, I know...) {{w|172.69.79.190|17:11, 21 November 2024}}
:According to the FIDE Laws of Chess (https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/E012023, Rule 6.5), placement of the chess clock is at the discretion of the arbiter, there isn't a 'preferred' location. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.179|172.68.205.179]] 12:10, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

anyone know what the chessboard would look like? [[Special:Contributions/172.71.194.94|172.71.194.94]] 17:25, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
:I might be going out on a limb here, but I'm guessing 32 black squares and 32 black squares next to each other, alternating across edges (but matching across corners) in an 8x8 grid... [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.35|172.70.162.35]] 22:48, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
: ... but seriously, folks, there's no telling what the game position is from the cartoon. If one takes the drawing at face value (dangerous, given its low resolution and angle of presentation), then it is White, not Black, who is up a piece (what piece cannot be determined). Inference that White Hat is Black is from the tallest pieces on the board (presumably the Kings) being Black on White Hat's side of the board, and White on Cueball's. Even that's chancy. The least risky guess is that both Queens are off the board. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.23.82|172.68.23.82]] 01:07, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

I added the reference to the '''Navajo Nation''', which arguably has four borders: Arizona, Utah, New Mexico, and an enclave with the Hopi Reservation. Arizona and the Hopi Reservation do not observe DST, while the other four entities do. See {{w|Time in Arizona}}. As such, people in the Navajo Nation can talk about their "Arizona Border". [[Special:Contributions/172.71.102.27|172.71.102.27]] 16:42, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

This may also be related to Magnus Carlsen arriving late for a match in World Blitz 2022. Youtube recommended to me a video about the match just a few days ago, it's most likely trending again now due to the upcoming championship. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.216.72|172.70.216.72]] 17:12, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

: There's an upcoming championship? With human players? Deep Blue beat Garry Kasparov {{w|Deep_Blue_(chess_computer)|twenty-eight years ago}}. I'm surprised anyone still bothers. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.42.158|162.158.42.158]] 20:07, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

What happens if White Hat's clock goes to 0 but he is still 1 pawn up? Does he win the game?[[Special:Contributions/141.101.69.128|141.101.69.128]] 18:17, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
: Nope. Dey could be one move from checkmate, but if dey doesn't make that move before the flag falls, dey loses. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.48|108.162.246.48]] 19:35, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Is anyone else getting "No, Mister Bond, I expect you to die" vibes (Comic [[123]]) from the final panel? [[Special:Contributions/172.71.103.171|172.71.103.171]] 01:49, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Now I guess Ding will defeat Gukesh by a score of 8:5.5 [[User:799571388|799571388]] ([[User talk:799571388|talk]]) 08:45, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Talk:3012: The Future of Orion

2024-11-21T07:59:09Z

799571388:

this is my second first comment. -[[User:Psychoticpotato|P?sych??otic?pot??at???o ]] ([[User talk:Psychoticpotato|talk]]) 17:47, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
:This is my first second comment. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.63.8|162.158.63.8]] 17:56, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
::I plead the third. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.136.188|172.69.136.188]] 19:57, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
:::you mean the fifth????? [[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 20:18, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
::::Probably not. I believe it's a perfectly legitimate request. If not because of the muddy boots, then because of the MRE wrappers they leave around (or don't put in the right recycling bin). [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.92|172.68.205.92]] 21:51, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
:::::This is my French: comment?[[Special:Contributions/172.69.194.226|172.69.194.226]] 13:26, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

okay we need to destroy the stars, any suggestions? [[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 19:02, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
:Don't worry, the [https://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=4264 insects] should take care of it. (If the rocks don't do it first) [[User:Trogdor147|Trogdor147]] ([[User_talk:Trogdor147|talk]]) 20:23, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Maybe add a reference to #1020? [[Special:Contributions/172.71.147.100|172.71.147.100]] 19:43, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

now instead of a hunter [[1020: Orion Nebula|with a dong]], its a dinosaur with diarrhea! [[User:Firestar233|guess who]] ([[User talk:Firestar233|if you want to]] | [[Special:Contributions/Firestar233|what i have done]]) 19:47, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

"There are no dinosaur constellations, because dinosaur fossils had not yet been discovered when constellations were first being named in around 3000 BCE." Faulty logic, compare: "There are no microscope constellations, because microscopes had not yet been discovered when constellations were first being named in around 3000 BCE." [[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.221|162.158.154.221]] 20:03, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
: {{w|Microscopium|link}}. Besides, weren't legends about dragons blamed on people finding dinosaur bones? -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 21:48, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

::Besides, Microscopium isn't even 300 years old, much less 5000 [[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.113|108.162.245.113]]

Has anyone figured out how far in the future Randall has projected the new star positions? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.135.5|172.69.135.5]] 21:04, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

There ARE dinosaur constellations, [[1211: Birds and Dinosaurs|nine of them in fact]]p [[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.113|108.162.245.113]]

Meh, dinosaurs. Where are the zombie constellations? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.109.77|172.69.109.77]] 08:54, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

My favorite part is that the dinosaur sill has a dong [[User:Apollo11|Apollo11]] ([[User talk:Apollo11|talk]]) 20:04, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
:If dinosaurs had penises, they would have usually been retracted within their cloaca (Alnilam) so North's ''T. rex'' is either excited to get with a female, or Orion's sword could instead be excrement being expelled. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.207.184|172.70.207.184]] 08:14, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

:: It's funny because one of the first attempts to depict dinosaurs in their natural environment - the painting "[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duria_Antiquior Duria Antiquior]" - had pooping dinosaurs. It was apparently both a reference to coprolites as well as simple scatological humour. --[[Special:Contributions/172.71.164.73|172.71.164.73]] 08:35, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Dinosaur Comics nearly always uses the same art in every strip, with the T-Rex in the same six poses. But the pose used in this XKCD strip isn't one of them. --[[Special:Contributions/172.71.254.101|172.71.254.101]] 18:05, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
:Yes-and-no. It seems to be a pretty much perfect (or even exact, I haven't dug down into it at the pixel level to check it's ''not'' just a very good Randall-redrawn version) mirror image of the [https://qwantz.com/ 'panel 6' pose]. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.58.5|172.70.58.5]] 19:33, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

When I was a kindergartner my parents had a mini wet bar inside a 1.5+ foot diameter star globe. I remember thinking how much higher quality my own drawings for class were than the really terrible stick figures formed by the lines of the constellations, and how poorly they matched their intended subjects. I still think about that when I see stick figure comics like XKCD. But as an adult I realize that their purpose wasn't art, it was mnemonic help for navigators, just like everyone in the northern hemisphere growing up away from city lights learns the big dipper instead of the Ursa bears, because it's easier to remember for finding the north star.

So, what I'm getting at is, maybe it would be a good idea to replace a bad constellation with the winner of a competition (including with the status quo) for something better every century or so. I'm not sure we really need to take proper motion into account for that though. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.132|108.162.245.132]] 02:56, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
: that competition gives the risk of a constellation named 'Starry McStarface.' {{unsigned ip|172.71.195.49|00:22, 19 November 2024}}
:: I would vote for that over Fornax the furnace or Caelum the chisel. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.23.92|172.68.23.92]] 10:21, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Should there be a Dinosaur Comics category? This one, 145, 1452, 1350, 2712, 2765, a few featuring Ryan North... [[Special:Contributions/108.162.241.175|108.162.241.175]] 17:48, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
The future of Orion: Released before the game totally finished, with lots of bugs, only one DLC. [[User:799571388|799571388]] ([[User talk:799571388|talk]]) 07:59, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Talk:2956: Number Line Branch

2024-07-16T07:41:29Z

799571388:

Is it significant that the branch point is close to the value of π? [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 20:28, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
:I was thinking the same thing, but decided it was probably nothing worth mentioning - probably just an arbitrary starting point. *Possibly* referencing the strange appearance of π but I doubt it. Anything can be significant if you believe hard enough, anyway.--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.60|162.158.158.60]] 20:30, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
: Keep in mind π isn't special. Most real numbers are like π. The rational numbers, and the roots of polynomials with rational coefficients (algebraic completion), are the aberration. --[[Special:Contributions/172.71.160.71|172.71.160.71]] 07:25, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

How does adding a new branch to a railway line reduce congestion? Isn't this more like a highway? [[Special:Contributions/141.101.105.47|141.101.105.47]] 23:30, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
:Read about the 2nd avenue subway. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.111.168|172.70.111.168]] 02:22, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

What is "thrembo"? [[User:AndroidTheLucario|Your favorite aura doggo]] ([[User talk:AndroidTheLucario|talk]]) 04:12, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
: I think the whole section can be removed. The point is to explain the comic, not to describe what is seen (unless it's relevant for the explanation, which, so far, seems not be the case). "Various symbols" should cover it. [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 06:35, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

The symbols seem well chosen TBH, I can totally see how they substitute for 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.146.32|162.158.146.32]] 14:42, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
:Except that, according to the title text, they should be 4, 8, 16, 32, 64. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.242.159|172.71.242.159]] 15:59, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
::I think that the express train travels on the regular number line, so I think the second branch parallels the regular number line. Thus, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. [[User:Sarah the Pie(yes, the food)|Sarah the Pie(yes, the food)]] ([[User talk:Sarah the Pie(yes, the food)|talk]]) 02:11, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Mathematicians been there, done that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-standard_model_of_arithmetic
Although a nonstandard model of the integers can't branch by Peano axioms. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.160.71|172.71.160.71]] 15:08, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
:Hold my beer! [Prompts Claude 3.5 Sonnet to create a non-standard model of arithmetic.]
::"Here is a non-standard model of arithmetic consistent with the Peano postulates:
::Axioms:
::
::∃0, ω : 0 ≠ ω
::∀x : S(x) = x + 1 if x ∈ ℕ; S(ω) = ω
::
::Theorems:
::T1. ∀n ∈ ℕ : n < ω
::T2. ∀n ∈ ℕ : n + ω = ω
::T3. ω + ω = ω
::
::Lemma:
::L1. ∀n ∈ ℕ : S(n) ≠ ω
::"Induction" Principle:
::For any property P, if P(0) ∧ P(ω) ∧ (∀x : P(x) → P(S(x))), then ∀x : P(x)
::
::Conclusions:
::C1. This model "satisfies" Peano axioms while introducing a non-standard element.
::C2. Arithmetic with ω leads to paradoxical results.
::C3. Use of this model may violate conservation of sanity."

:Oh, no! .... Tentacled one sleeps. Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu. Accept this new soul. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.103|172.70.210.103]] 03:24, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
:::That is just the ''[later edit:'' positive'']'' integers plus infinity, it should place you in the thrall of Asmodeus, not Cthulhu. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.42|108.162.245.42]]
::::The Russell-Riemann-Cantor diagonalization applies to integers with infinity, mapping each integer to a tentacle on an Eldritch manifold. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.53|172.70.210.53]] 03:59, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Personally I would have branched off between 9 and 10, and had single character symbols for 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, and 15 so that you could do base 16 without having to use letters. Randell just lacks vision. [[User:Andyd273|Andyd273]] ([[User talk:Andyd273|talk]]) 15:12, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
:Letters are single character symbols! I think he should extend the number line with all the letters, getting to 36 (z) before needing any new symbols[[User:PotatoGod|PotatoGod]] ([[User talk:PotatoGod|talk]]) 21:46, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

In my eyes they all seem like geometry or geometry-related symbols. A square, sideways pi, phi (the golden ratio), a spiral, and a triangle. That should probably be noted somewhere.--[[User:Rerere284|Rerere284]] ([[User talk:Rerere284|talk]]) 18:23, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
: I was thinking that the first symbol looks like a square too, so what is this stuff about a Brahmi letter instead of a square? How do we get that complicated with a square? [[User:Ianrbibtitlht|Ianrbibtitlht]] ([[User talk:Ianrbibtitlht|talk]]) 18:57, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

assuming particular mappings of the depicted symbols to phonemes, and saying "Putting these 5 phonemes together gives a word that sounds a bit like 'bisect,'" is absolutely a stretch and should be removed. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.208|162.158.159.208]] 22:20, 10 July 2024

I'm rather surprised that these mathematicians have decided to subdivide each integer by 8, instead of by 10, like good metricists.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.132|172.70.86.132]] 08:13, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

It looks to me that the split happens just beyond 3, probably at around 3.14156... [[User:Xplora1a|Xplora1a]] ([[User talk:Xplora1a|talk]]) 13:09, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

The new branch comes up between 3 and 4, which may reference The Secret Number, a sci-fi novel in which a mathematician find a number between 3 and 4. [[User:799571388|799571388]] ([[User talk:799571388|talk]]) 07:41, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

Talk:557: Students

2024-07-02T07:24:02Z

799571388:

The project dream is so true. To this day I have dreams where I signed up but didn't even attend a class that was necessary for graduation. I dream that I'll likely fail the course and need to attend one more semester. [[User:Cflare|Cflare]] ([[User talk:Cflare|talk]]) 17:15, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

There are studies that people successfully passing tests/exams have this dreams way more often. Often also something in the lines of every achievement after college would be nullified when it came out that the testresult was not correct. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.230.221|108.162.230.221]] 10:12, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

I had the dream of fighting the green ranger (The original one) in Crisco once, it was weird, and I do not know how or why I had that dream.
-Swaphero[[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.25|173.245.54.25]] 02:15, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

I graduated 15 years ago and I still have annoying dreams that I can't remember which locker was mine. - [[Special:Contributions/162.158.214.58|162.158.214.58]] 19:22, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

Same here. Graduated long ago, still have this nightmare from time to time. (not the "green monster" though) Why? Are we really part of a computer game? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.63.4|162.158.63.4]] 03:48, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

Yep, I have the same dream, graduated 8 years ago. I've self-diagnosed thi

I have this dream where I'm stranded on a random planet and start counting rocks and placing them in neat little piles. By the time I wake up, I've normally got over half a million rocks.
:How long do you sleep? --[[User:Jlc|Jlc]] ([[User talk:Jlc|talk]]) 02:54, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
::Most likely their brain skips placing most of the rocks, but they don't realise because it's a dream and dreams are weird{{Citation needed}}. [[User:Beanie|Beanie]] ([[User talk:Beanie|talk]]) 14:04, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
Yep, I have the same dream, at least 4-5 times a year, graduated 8 years ago. I've thought this has something to do with procrastinating and not dealing with something I feel like I should be dealing with (comes up more often when this is the case).--[[User:Iyhuvgug61|Iyhuvgug61]] ([[User talk:Iyhuvgug61|talk]]) 08:56, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

Such dreams have been bothering me for years, keeping reminding me the days I painfully struggled for graduation in university. [[User:799571388|799571388]] ([[User talk:799571388|talk]]) 07:24, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Talk:2936: Exponential Growth

2024-07-02T05:23:38Z

799571388:

If that's done by each of your moves being to add one (more) grain to the board, the game would last quite a while. Even with reduced time-limits on the game-clock. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.154|172.70.91.154]] 21:27, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Hmmm. Interesting. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.58.203|172.69.58.203]] 21:31, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

First transcript! Hope it's good.[[User:Danger Kitty|Danger Kitty]] ([[User talk:Danger Kitty|talk]]) 21:36, 22 May 2024‎ (you only <nowiki>~~~</nowiki>ed, it looks like...)

Total of 2^64 - 1 ≈ 1.8 x 10^19 grains of rice. If a grain of rice averages 30 mg, then that's 5.5 x 10^14 kg of rice. That's around the mass of Lake Erie. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.223.56|172.71.223.56]] 21:38, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

The legend about the chess board and doubling the grain placed on each square is researched here:
https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/5992/what-is-the-origin-of-the-wheat-and-chessboard-legend [[Special:Contributions/172.71.150.113|172.71.150.113]] 21:50, 22 May 2024 (UTC)~

The rice is on the side or the board is turned wrong. {{unsigned ip|172.70.115.17|23:13, 22 May 2024}}
:...not sure what you mean here. (Also, do sign your contributions.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.186|172.70.162.186]]
::The white square always goes on your right corner so this border is sideways (assuming we're looking at it head on, which seems likely) [[User:Apollo11|Apollo11]] ([[User talk:Apollo11|talk]]) 23:35, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
::a1 is a dark square, so wherever the one grain of rice is, it can't be a1. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.102.35|172.71.102.35]] 08:41, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
:::Either a8 or h1, which is SO annoying (most likley a mistake on Randall's part tho)[[User:Apollo11|Apollo11]] ([[User talk:Apollo11|talk]]) 15:35, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
With all those zeros in the values given for row eight i assume we are looking at the limitations of someones calculation skills/calculator... last I checked 5 was not a factor of any 2^n value? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.80.246|172.70.80.246]] 00:13, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
:: if you are referring to the final number (18,446,744,073,709,551,615), which is the only number divisible by 5, it is the total of all the squares, and equal to 2^64'''-1''' (checked in Wolfram|Alpha) [[User:Bilkie|Bilkie]] ([[User talk:Bilkie|talk]]) 19:45, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
:I think we don't need this part at all. If we really want to illustrate the numbers we could simply use the illustration from here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheat_and_chessboard_problem#Second_half_of_the_chessboard [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 07:15, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

That doesn't look like Hairy in the final panel. Is it a Kasparov caricature? [[User:Nitpicking|Nitpicking]] ([[User talk:Nitpicking|talk]]) 02:12, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
:I agree it is not the standard Hairy. Since this is Kasparovs gambit and Karpov tried to counter it, then it should be Karpov that walks out! Even though it is not Kasparaov but Black Hat that used the gambit. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:59, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
:Maybe it's the same Cueball from the first panel, but he's had to wait so long while Black Hat fetched all the rice that his hair grew out.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.160.249|172.70.160.249]] 13:32, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

I have to wonder if this comic is related to the Casablanca Chess Tournament that took place this past week, where 4 top-ranked players competed by playing a series of real historical games starting from the middle of each game. Magnus Carlsen won the tournament, which also included Hikaru Nakamura, Viswanathan Anand, and Bassem Amin. [[User:Ianrbibtitlht|Ianrbibtitlht]] ([[User talk:Ianrbibtitlht|talk]]) 04:38, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Russia pulling out of Black Sea agreement has been labelled "grain gambit" --[[Special:Contributions/172.71.131.158|172.71.131.158]] 06:36, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Trivia: 1. e2–e4 c7–c5 2. Sg1–f3 e7–e6 3. d2–d4 c5xd4 4. Sf3xd4 Sb8–c6 5. Sd4–b5 d7–d6 6. c2–c4 Sg8–f6 7. Sb1–c3 a7–a6 8. Sb5–a3 d6-d5!? is the Kasparov Gambit, see Wiki. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.160.30|172.71.160.30]] 08:56, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

This is a completely normal amount of rice. I eat this much grain daily. [[User:Psychoticpotato|Psychoticpotato]] ([[User talk:Psychoticpotato|talk]]) 13:21, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Counter with Tree countergambit. plant tree(1) seeds in the first square and tree(2) on the next square then tree(3) in the next square. Nobody has found out what happens afterwards. {{unsigned ip|172.70.131.212|14:25, 23 May 2024}}

So, out of curiosity, how many grains of rice can you actually fit on an average chess board square? Or maybe, how big would a chessboard have to be in order for the rice to fit on top of every square without overflowing? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.91.144|172.69.91.144]] 22:13, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
:Assuming that its a standard size and it can stack up around 10 cubic inches upwards about 4117267200 grains [[User:Apollo11|Apollo11]] ([[User talk:Apollo11|talk]]) 03:08, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

:Judging by [https://www.instructables.com/Chess-Board-Full-of-Rice-Exponential-Growth/ this], I reckon if you were really, really patient you might just about corral the 2048 on square 12 to stay within the bounds without additional housing, but you'd have no hope with the 13th.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.98|172.70.90.98]] 14:25, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

::This is super cool. And helpful. I got the density of rice from this and tried to calculate the size of a chess board that could contain the nine quintillion grains of rice on the last square. Assuming the rice forms a cone with a 30° slope, one would need a chess board roughly the size of Colombia (1073296km² for the whole board). Can anyone confirm?[[Special:Contributions/172.69.91.165|172.69.91.165]] 10:56, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
:::I covered Columbia in rice, and can confirm your hypothesis. Though a small amount spilled onto the streets of Tulcan, Ecuador. [[User:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For|These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For]] ([[User talk:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For|talk]]) 02:48, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
::::That's a neat trick. Especially as there are few {{w|Columbia#Places|Columbia}}s that are {{w|Colombia|adjacent to Ecuador}}... Probably why it hasn't made the news, with the geopolitical confusion as to what happened where. ;) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.31|172.70.85.31]] 08:59, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
::::: If you are willing to trust Google Maps, you can confirm that [https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Tulcan,+Ecuador/0.8140754,-77.6638233/@0.8185374,-77.7005492,14.25z/data=!4m9!4m8!1m5!1m1!1s0x8e2968bae7d5eb4d:0x2d2e73b19f33388d!2m2!1d-77.7165925!2d0.8150687!1m0!3e0?entry=ttu Tulcan, Ecuador is less than 10km from the border of Columbia]. [[User:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For|These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For]] ([[User talk:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For|talk]]) 02:39, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
:::::: That's Colombia, not Columbia, I think is the point. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.18|172.70.162.18]] 10:11, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Also, I noticed everyone here seems to have an ip in the 172.69.0.0 to 172.71.255.255 range, but I just checked and that's not even my ip address at the moment. What's that about? Does the wiki mask our actual ip addresses? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.90.110|172.69.90.110]] 22:29, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
:Not the wiki, but the gateways to the wiki that help with load-balancing and related connection issues. And you'll also see some IPs in the 141.x.y.z range, and others. I ''usually'' am in 171.[69-71].y.z range, but between one contribution another I might be anywhere.
:It's a known thing, for better or worse. Ultimately, there are behind-the-scenes details that would know the 'true' origin of everyone (give or take what load-balancing your own ISP also does at ''your'' side of the connection), but it's left obscured from our more plebian eyes.
:Getting a username will also remove the wider and more general geographic potshots someone can make a out your origin (the gateways seen to be used are likely to reveal ''at least'' your continent, if anyone's bothered), but I never saw the need.
:...now. I wonder under what range will the following put me..? => [[Special:Contributions/172.69.194.96|172.69.194.96]] 23:34, 23 May 2024 (UTC) 8) Postscript: I first quickly used Preview, and I actually got the 141.range, then posted for real and got the 172s. About ten seconds between the two 'postings'. Hah! [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.129|141.101.98.129]] 23:36, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

"If exponential growth is unrestricted, it will eventually grow beyond the constraints of anything that could plausibly be built to contain it." - Given that the increase in rice grains is, itself, not plausible, I see no reason why the growth in size of rice cookers needs to be plausible either.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.119|141.101.98.119]] 09:59, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
:I was tempted to add something about square/cube-law (not quite applicable, as there'll be a smidgen of cubing as you raise the square-area of container material, etc, but along tbose lines), but that of course makes the implausibility threshold of the cookers higher than the same threshold of rice (everything else being equal). So then you're on to the heat-penetration abilities (after a while, the outer rice is overcooked, when the innermost rice has barely felt the heat). And that leads me to believe that something like a {{w|rotary kiln}} design might be best adopted (external heat, internalised water delivery, properly tuned, and could even be effectively pressurised with the right cycling addons to either end) to just accept rice in at a constant rate and produce perfectly cooked rice at the commensurate output rate. Of course, exponential increase in feed would then require exponential increase in parallel rotary-cookers to handle it, but starting at an already more efficient/controllable mass-cooking process than merely upscaling a traditional pot-style cooker. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.242.220|172.71.242.220]] 11:09, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

This is easily defeated. Simply counter by placing one {{w|Fox_games#Fox_and_Geese|goose}} on the 64th square, two geese on the 63rd, and so on. They'll quickly deal with the rice situation.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.163.120|172.70.163.120]] 13:39, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
:But then you need to add an increasing number of foxes starting at the first square to deal with the geese.[[User:Mathmannix|Mathmannix]] ([[User talk:Mathmannix|talk]]) 19:27, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
::And good luck taking the whole setup across a river with just a small boat! [[Special:Contributions/172.69.79.165|172.69.79.165]] 22:43, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but assuming that the chess board is 20 inches square, the rice being stacked into a pyrimid 15 inches high, then it only works out to [https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=5.5+x+10%5E14+kg%2F%2820inches*20inches*15+inches*1%2F3%29 1.7x10^16 kg/m^3], which, according to Wolfram, is dwarfed by the density of a Neutron Star, much less a black hole. So is there some other reason the explanation claims it will become a black hole? Or was it just wrong [[User:Xkcdjerry|Xkcdjerry]] ([[User talk:Xkcdjerry|talk]]) 04:17, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

'If someone asking for too much wheat, hit him on the head with chessboard.'--Liu Qi, an emperor in Han dynasty, China [[User:799571388|799571388]] ([[User talk:799571388|talk]]) 05:23, 2 July 2024 (UTC)