explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

2435: Geothmetic Meandian

2025-10-22T07:20:01Z

82.132.236.174: /* Explanation */ Reclarified that it's actually the maxima/minima, being formatted, not just the second of each thing they alternate between. Realigned the table data, by fixed-width spacing, purely for source-viewing aesthetics!

{{comic
| number = 2435
| date = March 10, 2021
| title = Geothmetic Meandian
| image = geothmetic_meandian.png
| titletext = Pythagorean means are nice and all, but throwing the median in the pot is really what turns this into random forest statistics: applying every function you can think of, and then gradually dropping the ones that make the result worse.
}}
==Explanation==
This is another one of [[Randall|Randall's]] [[:Category:Tips|Tips]], this time a stats tip. This came as the first tip comic after the statistics tip in [[2400: Statistics]].

There are a number of different ways to identify the "{{w|average}}" value of a series of values, the most common unweighted methods being the {{w|median}} (take the central value from the ordered list of values if there are an odd number - or the value half-way between the two that straddle the divide between two halves if there are an even number) and the {{w|arithmetic mean}} (add all the numbers up, divide by the number of numbers). The {{w|geometric mean}} is less well-known but works similarly to the arithmetic mean. The geometric mean of ''n'' positive numbers is the ''n''th root of the product of those numbers. If all of the numbers in a sequence are identical, then its arithmetic mean, geometric mean and median will be identical, since they would all be equal to the common value of the terms of the sequence. However, if the sequence is not constant, then {{w|Inequality_of_arithmetic_and_geometric_means#Geometric_interpretation|the arithmetic mean will be greater than the geometric mean}}, and the median may be different than either of those means.

The geometric mean, arithmetic mean, and the {{w|harmonic mean}} (not shown) are collectively known as the {{w|Pythagorean means}}, as specific modes of a greater and more generalized mean formula that extends arbitrarily to various other possible nuances of mean-value rationisations (cubic, etc.).

{{w|Outlier}}s and internal biases within the original sample can make boiling down a set of values into a single 'average' sometimes overly biased by flaws in the data, with your choice of which method to use perhaps resulting in a value that is misleading, exaggerating or suppressing the significance of any blips.

In this depiction, the three named methods of averaging are embedded within a single function that produces a sequence of three values - one output for each of the methods. Being a series of values, Randall suggests that this is ideally suited to being ''itself'' subjected to the comparative 'averaging' method. Not just once, but as many times as it takes to narrow down to a sequence of three values that are very close to one another.

It can be shown that the xkcd value of 2.089 for GMDN(1,1,2,3,5) is validated:

{|-border =1 width=100% cellpadding=5 class="wikitable"
!
! Arithmetic mean
! Geometric mean
! Median
|-
! F1
| '''2.4''' || ''1.974350486'' || 2
|-
! F2
| '''2.124783495''' || 2.116192461 || ''2''
|-
! F3
| 2.080325319 || ''2.079536819'' || '''2.116192461'''
|-
! F4
| '''2.0920182''' || 2.091948605 || ''2.080325319''
|-
! F5
| 2.088097374 || ''2.088090133'' || '''2.091948605'''
|-
! F6
| '''2.089378704''' || 2.089377914 || ''2.088097374''
|-
! F7
| 2.088951331 || ''2.088951244'' || '''2.089377914'''
|-
! F8
| '''2.089093496''' || 2.089093487 || ''2.088951331''
|-
! F9
| 2.089046105 || ''2.089046103'' || '''2.089093487'''
|-
! F10
| '''2.089061898''' || 2.089061898 || ''2.089046105''
|}

Each row in this table shows the set Fn(..) composed of the average, geomean and median computed on the previous row, with the sequence {1,1,2,3,5} as the initial F0. While GMDN is not differentiable, due to the median, this can be interpreted as somewhat similar to a heat equation which approaches equilibrium through averaging. Interestingly, the maximum value (bolded in the table) alternates between the arithmetic average and the median, while the minimum value (italiticzed in the table) alternates between the geometric mean and the median. This observation holds for many inputs.

To not distract from the comedic effect, the definition of the GMDN in the comic is left as a simplified sketch. To make the definition mathematically rigorous the implied infinite limit in the second line can be made precise, for example, as the result of a {{w|fixed-point iteration}} via <code>G = lim_{k -> infinity} m_k </code> where <code>m_0 = F(x_1, x_2, ..., x_n)</code> and <code>m_{k+1} = F(m_k) for k > 0</code>. This definition is well-defined only if we can proof convergence to a fixpoint of F for a set of inputs. Indeed, convergence holds if all numbers are non-negative (see discussions for proof and more cases). Note that the above definition yields a three-dimensional fixpoint G. Because all fixpoints of F are of the form <code>G=(g, g, g)</code>, with elements that are all equal, we can define <code>GMDN(x_1, x_2, ..., x_n) = G_1</code>, as the first element of G. This formal definition avoids the inconsistency present in the comic's definition sketch where the function GMDN as defined in the second line has the same three-dimensional output as F, but GMDN in the last line is shown to produce a single real number rather than a vector and is thus missing a final operation of returning a single component. Note also that the comic's definition of the median as the (n+1)/2-th {{w|order statistic}}, i.e. the (n+1)/2-th smallest value, coincides with the more regularly used sample median only on lists of odd length. For lists of even length the sample median is usually defined as the (arithmetic) mean of the two middle values <code>X_{n/2}</code> and <code>X_{(n+2)/2}</code> instead. Indeed, for lists of even lengths <code>X_{(n+1)/2}</code> is not well-defined without adding a flooring operation as (n+1)/2 is not an integer.

The comment in the title text about suggests that this will save you the trouble of committing to the 'wrong' analysis as it gradually shaves down any 'outlier average' that is unduly affected by anomalies in the original inputs. It is a method without any danger of divergence of values, since all three averaging methods stay within the interval covering the input values (and two of them will stay strictly within that interval).

The title text may also be a sly reference to an actual mathematical theorem, namely that if one performs this procedure only using the arithmetic mean and the harmonic mean, the result will converge to the geometric mean. Randall suggests that the (non-Pythagorean) median, which does not have such good mathematical properties with relation to convergence, is, in fact, the secret sauce in his definition.

The question of being unsure of which mean to use is especially relevant for the arithmetic and harmonic means in following example.
* Cueball has some US Dollars and wishes to buy Euros. Suppose the bank will exchange US Dollars to Euros at a rate of €5 for $6 (about 0.83333€/$ or 1.20000$/€).
* Megan has some Euros and wishes to buy US Dollars. Suppose the bank will exchange Euros to US Dollars at a rate of $7 for €6 (about 0.85714€/$ or 1.16667$/€).
[[Cueball]] and [[Megan]] decide to complete the exchange between themselves in order to save the {{w|Bid-ask spread}} of the {{w|Exchange rate}} which is the cost the bank imposes on Cueball and Megan for its service as a {{w|Market maker}}.
* Cueball offers to split the difference by averaging the rates €5:$6 and €6:$7 yielding a rate of €71:$84 (about 0.84524€/$ or 1.18310$/€).
* Megan offers to split the difference by averaging the rates $6:€5 and $7:€6 yielding a rate of €60:$71 (about 0.84507€/$ or 1.18333$/€).
In one direction (€/$), Cueball is using the arithmetic mean but Megan is using the harmonic mean while in the other direction ($/€), Megan is using the arithmetic mean but Cueball is using the harmonic mean. This creates two new exchange rates which are closer than the orginal rates, but the new rates are still different for each other. Megan and Cueball can then iterate this process and the rates will converge to the geometric mean of the original rates, namely:
* sqrt((5/6)*(6/7)) = sqrt(5/7) = 0.84515€/$ or
* sqrt((6/5)*(7/6)) = sqrt(7/5) = 1.18322$/€.

There does exist an {{w|arithmetic-geometric mean}}, which is defined identically to this except with the arithmetic and geometric means, and sees some use in calculus. In some ways it's also philosophically similar to the {{w|truncated mean}} (extremities of the value range, e.g. the highest and lowest 10%s, are ignored as not acceptable and not counted) or {{w|Winsorized mean}} (instead of ignored, the values are readjusted to be the chosen floor/ceiling values that they lie beyond, to still effectively be counted as "edge" conditions), only with a strange dilution-and-compromise method rather than one where quantities can be culled or neutered just for being unexpectedly different from most of the other data.

The input sequence of numbers (1, 1, 2, 3, 5) chosen by Randall is also the opening of the {{w|Fibonacci sequence}}. This may have been selected because the Fibonacci sequence also has a convergent property: the ratio of two adjacent numbers in the sequence approaches the {{w|Golden ratio#Relationship to Fibonacci sequence|golden ratio}} as the length of the sequence approaches infinity.

Here is a table of averages classified by the various methods referenced:

{|border =1 width=100% cellpadding=5 class="wikitable"
|+ averages using various methods
! Method
! Value
! Formula
|-
! Arithmetic
| 2.4
| Add all numbers, then divide the sum by n, where n is the number of terms.
|-
! Geometric
| 1.9743504858348
| Multiply all numbers, then take the product's nth root, where n is the number of terms.
|-
! Median
| 2
| Find the term or terms which separate the upper half of the set from the lower set. If the set has an even number of terms, find the arithmetic mean of the middle two terms.
|-
! GMDN
| 2.089
| (see above)
|}

==Transcript==

F(x1,x2,...xn)=({x1+x2+...+xn/n [bracket: arithmetic mean]},{nx,x2...xn, [bracket: geometric mean]} {x n+1/2 [bracket: median]})

Gmdn(x1,x2,...xn)={F(F(F(...F(x1,x2,...xn)...)))[bracket: geothmetic meandian]}

Gmdn(1,1,2,3,5) [equals about sign] 2.089

Caption: Stats tip: If you aren't sure whether to use the mean, median, or geometric mean, just calculate all three, then repeat until it converges

==Trivia==
Geothm means "counting earths" (From Ancient Greek γεω- (geō-), combining form of γῆ (gê, “earth”) and ἀριθμός arithmos, 'counting'). Geothmetic means "art of Geothming" based on the etymology of Arithmetic (from Ancient Greek ἀριθμητική (τέχνη) (arithmētikḗ (tékhnē), “(art of) counting”). This is an exciting new terminology that is eminently suitable for modern cosmology & high energy physics - particularly when doing math on the multiverse. However, it is unlikely this etymology is related to the term "geothmetic meandian" as coined by Randall, as it can be more simply explained as a portmanteau of the three averages in its construction: '''geo'''metric mean, ari'''thmetic mean''', and me'''dian'''.

The following Python code (inefficiently) implements the above algorithm for a list of non-negative numbers:

<pre>
from functools import reduce

def f(*args):
args = sorted(args)
mean = sum(args) / len(args)
gmean = reduce(lambda x, y: x * y, args) ** (1 / len(args))
if len(args) % 2:
median = args[len(args) // 2]
else:
median = (args[len(args) // 2] + args[len(args) // 2 - 1]) / 2
return mean, gmean, median

max_iterations = 10
l = [1, 1, 2, 3, 5]
for iterations in range(max_iterations):
fst, *rest = l
if all((abs(r - fst) < 0.00000001 for r in rest)):
break
l = f(*l)
print(l[0], iterations)
</pre>
Here is a slightly more efficient version of the Python code:

<pre>
from scipy.stats.mstats import gmean
import numpy as np

def get_centers(a, tol=0.00001, print_rows = True):
a = np.array(a)
l_of_a = len(a)
if l_of_a == 1:
return a[0]
elif l_of_a > 2:
result = all(
(
np.abs(a[0] / a[1]) <= tol,
np.abs(a[0] / a[2]) <= tol,
np.abs(a[1] / a[2]) <= tol,
)
)
if result:
return a[0]
res = [np.mean(a), np.median(a), gmean(a)]

if print_rows:
print(res)
return get_centers(res, tol)

</pre>

And here is an implementation of the Gmdn function in R:

Gmdn <- function (..., threshold = 1E-6) {
# Function F(x) as defined in comic
f <- function (x) {
n <- length(x)
return(c(mean(x), prod(x)^(1/n), median(x)))
}
# Extract input vector from ... argument
x <- c(...)
# Iterate until the standard deviation of f(x) reaches a threshold
while (sd(x) > threshold) x <- f(x)
# Return the mean of the final triplet
return(mean(x))
}

{{comic discussion}}


[[Category:Math]]
[[Category:Statistics]]
[[Category:Portmanteau]]
[[Category:Tips]]

3157: Emperor Palpatine

2025-10-22T07:00:22Z

82.132.236.174: /* Trivia */ Added two further personal wikilinks (one, by necessity, being by proxy)

{{comic
| number = 3157
| date = October 20, 2025
| title = Emperor Palpatine
| image = emperor_palpatine_2x.png
| imagesize = 538x531px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = Many things about Star Wars were not well planned out, but having a 37-year-old in old-age makeup play the Emperor in Return of the Jedi was such an incredible call.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|What happened when Palpatine was a toddler (all I know is he wasn't a Jedi and discovered the dark side)? This page was created by A BOT OF UNCERTAIN AGE. Don't remove this notice too soon.}}
This comic about {{w|extrapolation}} tracks the age of the {{w|Star Wars}} character {{w|Palpatine}} against the age of the actor who played him.

The primary film series of the Star Wars franchise consists of three trilogies: the original trilogy (1977-1983, portraying from the immediate lead up to the Battle of Yavin until 4 <abbr title="years After the Battle of Yavin">ABY</abbr>), the prequel trilogy (1999-2005, portraying 32 <abbr title="years Before the Battle of Yavin">BBY</abbr> to 19 BBY), and the sequel trilogy (2015-2019, during 34-35 ABY). Palpatine is played by {{w|Ian McDiarmid}} in at least one film from each trilogy (and all three films of the prequel trilogy).

The character of Emperor Palpatine was briefly mentioned in the first {{w|Star Wars}} movie and appears briefly in {{w|The Empire Strikes Back}} (see the Trivia section below), but doesn't have significant screen time until {{w|Return of the Jedi}}, in 1983, which is when McDiarmid took on the role. He was presented as an elderly, withered, and physically decaying man, despite being played by an actor in his 30s. The character appears to be killed near the end of the film.

The prequels portray Palpatine's rise from Senator to Chancellor to Emperor. He was 55 when the first of the prequels was made, and used no obvious aging (or de-aging) makeup or other effects, implying that the Palpatine of this era was approximately the same age as the actor (which fits nicely with the established timeline of the universe).

{{w|The Rise of Skywalker}} was the third film of the sequel trilogy. Infamously, this film reveals that "somehow, Palpatine returned". This is somewhat vaguely explained by references to "dark signs, cloning, secrets only the Sith knew", echoing elements of the non-film fiction that had pre-existed the sequels but no longer considered official canon. McDiarmid, now in his 70s, played the role once again. While he appears at least as aged as the actor (and far more physically corrupted) the joke is that, if he was cloned, his new body had an "undefined age", but was presumably younger than Palpatine would have been had he survived beyond his previous appearances.

The title text suggests that the makers of Star Wars had planned this out from the beginning, and so deliberately chose a 37-year-old actor to play an elderly character, specifically so that he could continue to play the part throughout the entire film series. In fact, the long-term direction of the films was never so accurately anticipated, and the notion that the films would be made over the course of more than four decades was probably not ever predicted. The idea that casting was made on that assumption is unlikely in the extreme. The fact that the same actor was able to reprise his role over such a long period of time was almost certainly just a matter of luck, though Randall jokingly presents this as entirely intentional.

Putting all this together, [[Randall]] comes up with chart comparing the actor's age to that of the character, and concludes that they have an inverse relationship. Extrapolating this forward, he proposes that McDiarmid (81 years old, as of the publication of this strip) be brought back to play the Emperor as a toddler.

The joke, of course, is that this kind of extrapolation is ridiculous. In addition to the silliness of the subject matter, the data isn't used properly. Considering that there are only four good data points (plus a fifth where one of the dimensions is unclear, so is excluded), there are not really sufficient data points to make a proper extrapolation from here. Furthermore, three of the data points are clustered closely together, and by themselves represent a period where character-age and actor-age are effectively directly equivalent, reducing their usefulness as independent markers along the negative slope.

This comic continues a long theme of applying graphing and extrapolation poorly, and in situations where they're not appropriate, to show the kinds of ridiculous conclusions it can lead to. [[:Category:Extrapolation|See here for other examples]].

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Don't remove this notice too soon.}}
:[A scatter chart with the Y scale from 0 to 120 and X scale from 30 to 90. The X axis is labeled "Emperor Palpatine character age" and Y axis is labeled "Ian McDiarmid age during filming".]
:[Point labeled "Return of the Jedi"] X value = ~39, Y value = ~87
:[Point labeled "The Phantom Menace"] X value = ~50, Y value = ~52
:[Point labeled "Attack of the Clones"] X value = ~52, Y value = 61
:[Point labeled "Revenge of the Sith"] X value = ~60, Y value = ~62
:[Vertical line with gradient labeled "The Rise of Skywalker (cloned body, undefined age)". The gradient is darkest around the Y values from 40 to 50, and becomes lighter towards either extreme of the Y axis. It stops when it touches the black arrow mentioned later.] X value = ~75
:[Hollow circle with a dashed outline labeled "Now"] X value = ~81, Y value = ~4

:[A thick black arrow trending downwards from "Return of the Jedi" pointing near "The Phantom Menace", "Attack of the Clones", and "Revenge of the Sith". "The Phantom Menace" is below it and "Attack of the Clones" and "Revenge of the Sith" are above it.]
:[Another thick black arrow trending downwards from "The Phantom Menace" and nearby points to the "Now" circle.]

:[Caption beneath panel]
:To continue the trend, they should make a Star Wars movie where 81-year-old Ian McDiarmid plays the Emperor as a toddler.

==Trivia==
Not depicted upon the graph are Palpatine's prior actors, all from the original release of Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back, when Palpatine would have been 88. {{w|Marjorie Eaton}} (79) visually played the character in an uncredited role (unless it was the trial footage of Elaine Baker, instead, at the time 27 and married to {{w|Rick Baker|the film's makeup designer}}), with different heavy prosthetics to McDiarmid and supposedly superimposed with the eyes of a chimpanzee ({{w|Chimpanzee#Mortality and health|age unknown}}!), whilst {{w|Clive Revill}} (50) provided the voice. For the 2004 DVD release, the scene was entirely reshot with McDiarmid, who was 60 at the time ''and'' given a make-over to more closely match his own initial appearance in the followup film.

{{comic discussion}}<noinclude>
[[Category:Extrapolation]]
[[Category:Star Wars]]
[[Category:Scatter plots]]

3157: Emperor Palpatine

2025-10-22T06:48:20Z

82.132.236.174: /* Trivia */ Tweak

{{comic
| number = 3157
| date = October 20, 2025
| title = Emperor Palpatine
| image = emperor_palpatine_2x.png
| imagesize = 538x531px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = Many things about Star Wars were not well planned out, but having a 37-year-old in old-age makeup play the Emperor in Return of the Jedi was such an incredible call.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|What happened when Palpatine was a toddler (all I know is he wasn't a Jedi and discovered the dark side)? This page was created by A BOT OF UNCERTAIN AGE. Don't remove this notice too soon.}}
This comic about {{w|extrapolation}} tracks the age of the {{w|Star Wars}} character {{w|Palpatine}} against the age of the actor who played him.

The primary film series of the Star Wars franchise consists of three trilogies: the original trilogy (1977-1983, portraying from the immediate lead up to the Battle of Yavin until 4 <abbr title="years After the Battle of Yavin">ABY</abbr>), the prequel trilogy (1999-2005, portraying 32 <abbr title="years Before the Battle of Yavin">BBY</abbr> to 19 BBY), and the sequel trilogy (2015-2019, during 34-35 ABY). Palpatine is played by {{w|Ian McDiarmid}} in at least one film from each trilogy (and all three films of the prequel trilogy).

The character of Emperor Palpatine was briefly mentioned in the first {{w|Star Wars}} movie and appears briefly in {{w|The Empire Strikes Back}} (see the Trivia section below), but doesn't have significant screen time until {{w|Return of the Jedi}}, in 1983, which is when McDiarmid took on the role. He was presented as an elderly, withered, and physically decaying man, despite being played by an actor in his 30s. The character appears to be killed near the end of the film.

The prequels portray Palpatine's rise from Senator to Chancellor to Emperor. He was 55 when the first of the prequels was made, and used no obvious aging (or de-aging) makeup or other effects, implying that the Palpatine of this era was approximately the same age as the actor (which fits nicely with the established timeline of the universe).

{{w|The Rise of Skywalker}} was the third film of the sequel trilogy. Infamously, this film reveals that "somehow, Palpatine returned". This is somewhat vaguely explained by references to "dark signs, cloning, secrets only the Sith knew", echoing elements of the non-film fiction that had pre-existed the sequels but no longer considered official canon. McDiarmid, now in his 70s, played the role once again. While he appears at least as aged as the actor (and far more physically corrupted) the joke is that, if he was cloned, his new body had an "undefined age", but was presumably younger than Palpatine would have been had he survived beyond his previous appearances.

The title text suggests that the makers of Star Wars had planned this out from the beginning, and so deliberately chose a 37-year-old actor to play an elderly character, specifically so that he could continue to play the part throughout the entire film series. In fact, the long-term direction of the films was never so accurately anticipated, and the notion that the films would be made over the course of more than four decades was probably not ever predicted. The idea that casting was made on that assumption is unlikely in the extreme. The fact that the same actor was able to reprise his role over such a long period of time was almost certainly just a matter of luck, though Randall jokingly presents this as entirely intentional.

Putting all this together, [[Randall]] comes up with chart comparing the actor's age to that of the character, and concludes that they have an inverse relationship. Extrapolating this forward, he proposes that McDiarmid (81 years old, as of the publication of this strip) be brought back to play the Emperor as a toddler.

The joke, of course, is that this kind of extrapolation is ridiculous. In addition to the silliness of the subject matter, the data isn't used properly. Considering that there are only four good data points (plus a fifth where one of the dimensions is unclear, so is excluded), there are not really sufficient data points to make a proper extrapolation from here. Furthermore, three of the data points are clustered closely together, and by themselves represent a period where character-age and actor-age are effectively directly equivalent, reducing their usefulness as independent markers along the negative slope.

This comic continues a long theme of applying graphing and extrapolation poorly, and in situations where they're not appropriate, to show the kinds of ridiculous conclusions it can lead to. [[:Category:Extrapolation|See here for other examples]].

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Don't remove this notice too soon.}}
:[A scatter chart with the Y scale from 0 to 120 and X scale from 30 to 90. The X axis is labeled "Emperor Palpatine character age" and Y axis is labeled "Ian McDiarmid age during filming".]
:[Point labeled "Return of the Jedi"] X value = ~39, Y value = ~87
:[Point labeled "The Phantom Menace"] X value = ~50, Y value = ~52
:[Point labeled "Attack of the Clones"] X value = ~52, Y value = 61
:[Point labeled "Revenge of the Sith"] X value = ~60, Y value = ~62
:[Vertical line with gradient labeled "The Rise of Skywalker (cloned body, undefined age)". The gradient is darkest around the Y values from 40 to 50, and becomes lighter towards either extreme of the Y axis. It stops when it touches the black arrow mentioned later.] X value = ~75
:[Hollow circle with a dashed outline labeled "Now"] X value = ~81, Y value = ~4

:[A thick black arrow trending downwards from "Return of the Jedi" pointing near "The Phantom Menace", "Attack of the Clones", and "Revenge of the Sith". "The Phantom Menace" is below it and "Attack of the Clones" and "Revenge of the Sith" are above it.]
:[Another thick black arrow trending downwards from "The Phantom Menace" and nearby points to the "Now" circle.]

:[Caption beneath panel]
:To continue the trend, they should make a Star Wars movie where 81-year-old Ian McDiarmid plays the Emperor as a toddler.

==Trivia==
Not depicted upon the graph are Palpatine's prior actors, all from the original release of Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back, when Palpatine would have been 88. {{w|Marjorie Eaton}} (79) visually played the character in an uncredited role (unless it was the trial footage of Elaine Baker, instead, at the time 27 and married to the film's makeup designer), with different heavy prosthetics to McDiarmid and supposedly superimposed with the eyes of a chimpanzee ({{w|Chimpanzee#Mortality and health|age unknown}}!), whilst Clive Revill (50) provided the voice. For the 2004 DVD release, the scene was entirely reshot with McDiarmid, who was 60 at the time ''and'' given a make-over to more closely match his own initial appearance in the followup film.

{{comic discussion}}<noinclude>
[[Category:Extrapolation]]
[[Category:Star Wars]]
[[Category:Scatter plots]]

3157: Emperor Palpatine

2025-10-22T06:38:37Z

82.132.236.174: (Trivia follows Transcript) Various minor/medium/clarifying/expanding edits. Which I'm not sure will survive long, but well intended.

{{comic
| number = 3157
| date = October 20, 2025
| title = Emperor Palpatine
| image = emperor_palpatine_2x.png
| imagesize = 538x531px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = Many things about Star Wars were not well planned out, but having a 37-year-old in old-age makeup play the Emperor in Return of the Jedi was such an incredible call.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|What happened when Palpatine was a toddler (all I know is he wasn't a Jedi and discovered the dark side)? This page was created by A BOT OF UNCERTAIN AGE. Don't remove this notice too soon.}}
This comic about {{w|extrapolation}} tracks the age of the {{w|Star Wars}} character {{w|Palpatine}} against the age of the actor who played him.

The primary film series of the Star Wars franchise consists of three trilogies: the original trilogy (1977-1983, portraying from the immediate lead up to the Battle of Yavin until 4 <abbr title="years After the Battle of Yavin">ABY</abbr>), the prequel trilogy (1999-2005, portraying 32 <abbr title="years Before the Battle of Yavin">BBY</abbr> to 19 BBY), and the sequel trilogy (2015-2019, during 34-35 ABY). Palpatine is played by {{w|Ian McDiarmid}} in at least one film from each trilogy (and all three films of the prequel trilogy).

The character of Emperor Palpatine was briefly mentioned in the first {{w|Star Wars}} movie and appears briefly in {{w|The Empire Strikes Back}} (see the Trivia section below), but doesn't have significant screen time until {{w|Return of the Jedi}}, in 1983, which is when McDiarmid took on the role. He was presented as an elderly, withered, and physically decaying man, despite being played by an actor in his 30s. The character appears to be killed near the end of the film.

The prequels portray Palpatine's rise from Senator to Chancellor to Emperor. He was 55 when the first of the prequels was made, and used no obvious aging (or de-aging) makeup or other effects, implying that the Palpatine of this era was approximately the same age as the actor (which fits nicely with the established timeline of the universe).

{{w|The Rise of Skywalker}} was the third film of the sequel trilogy. Infamously, this film reveals that "somehow, Palpatine returned". This is somewhat vaguely explained by references to "dark signs, cloning, secrets only the Sith knew", echoing elements of the non-film fiction that had pre-existed the sequels but no longer considered official canon. McDiarmid, now in his 70s, played the role once again. While he appears at least as aged as the actor (and far more physically corrupted) the joke is that, if he was cloned, his new body had an "undefined age", but was presumably younger than Palpatine would have been had he survived beyond his previous appearances.

The title text suggests that the makers of Star Wars had planned this out from the beginning, and so deliberately chose a 37-year-old actor to play an elderly character, specifically so that he could continue to play the part throughout the entire film series. In fact, the long-term direction of the films was never so accurately anticipated, and the notion that the films would be made over the course of more than four decades was probably not ever predicted. The idea that casting was made on that assumption is unlikely in the extreme. The fact that the same actor was able to reprise his role over such a long period of time was almost certainly just a matter of luck, though Randall jokingly presents this as entirely intentional.

Putting all this together, [[Randall]] comes up with chart comparing the actor's age to that of the character, and concludes that they have an inverse relationship. Extrapolating this forward, he proposes that McDiarmid (81 years old, as of the publication of this strip) be brought back to play the Emperor as a toddler.

The joke, of course, is that this kind of extrapolation is ridiculous. In addition to the silliness of the subject matter, the data isn't used properly. Considering that there are only four good data points (plus a fifth where one of the dimensions is unclear, so is excluded), there are not really sufficient data points to make a proper extrapolation from here. Furthermore, three of the data points are clustered closely together, and by themselves represent a period where character-age and actor-age are effectively directly equivalent, reducing their usefulness as independent markers along the negative slope.

This comic continues a long theme of applying graphing and extrapolation poorly, and in situations where they're not appropriate, to show the kinds of ridiculous conclusions it can lead to. [[:Category:Extrapolation|See here for other examples]].

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Don't remove this notice too soon.}}
:[A scatter chart with the Y scale from 0 to 120 and X scale from 30 to 90. The X axis is labeled "Emperor Palpatine character age" and Y axis is labeled "Ian McDiarmid age during filming".]
:[Point labeled "Return of the Jedi"] X value = ~39, Y value = ~87
:[Point labeled "The Phantom Menace"] X value = ~50, Y value = ~52
:[Point labeled "Attack of the Clones"] X value = ~52, Y value = 61
:[Point labeled "Revenge of the Sith"] X value = ~60, Y value = ~62
:[Vertical line with gradient labeled "The Rise of Skywalker (cloned body, undefined age)". The gradient is darkest around the Y values from 40 to 50, and becomes lighter towards either extreme of the Y axis. It stops when it touches the black arrow mentioned later.] X value = ~75
:[Hollow circle with a dashed outline labeled "Now"] X value = ~81, Y value = ~4

:[A thick black arrow trending downwards from "Return of the Jedi" pointing near "The Phantom Menace", "Attack of the Clones", and "Revenge of the Sith". "The Phantom Menace" is below it and "Attack of the Clones" and "Revenge of the Sith" are above it.]
:[Another thick black arrow trending downwards from "The Phantom Menace" and nearby points to the "Now" circle.]

:[Caption beneath panel]
:To continue the trend, they should make a Star Wars movie where 81-year-old Ian McDiarmid plays the Emperor as a toddler.

==Trivia==
Not depicted upon the graph are Palpatine's prior actors, all from the original release of Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back, when Palpatine would have been 88. {{w|Marjorie Eaton}} (79) visually played the character in an uncredited role (unless it was the trial footage of Elaine Baker, instead, at the time 27 and married to the film's makeup designer), with similarly heavy prosthetics to McDiarmid and supposedly superimposed with the eyes of a chimpanzee ({{w|Chimpanzee#Mortality and health|age unknown}}!), whilst Clive Revill (50) provided the voice. For the 2004 DVD release, the scene was reshot with McDiarmid, who was 60 at the time.

{{comic discussion}}<noinclude>
[[Category:Extrapolation]]
[[Category:Star Wars]]
[[Category:Scatter plots]]

2862: Typical Seating Chart

2025-10-22T05:58:44Z

82.132.236.174: /* Explanation */ tyop

{{comic
| number = 2862
| date = December 1, 2023
| title = Typical Seating Chart
| image = typical_seating_chart_2x.png
| imagesize = 740x943px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = Now that airlines have started adding wheel locks to their drink carts, less than half of flights have one accidentally fall out through the hole.
}}

==Explanation==
This comic shows a seating chart for a 182-seat airplane (and its fighter escort) with several unusual features.

{|class = "wikitable"
! Label !! Location !! Notes
|-
|{{w|Cowcatcher}}
|Front of plane
|This looks like a {{w|Cowcatcher|train cowcatcher}}, a metal grate on the front of some trains, which is intended to ''deflect'' obstacles (including animals) rather than actually capture them. This one could help deflect livestock both on the ground (while taxiing) and perhaps also in the air (to "catch" flying cows, such as any that have decided to jump over the Moon).

A bit of trivia: in railroad parlance, the cowcatcher is known as a ''Pilot''.
|-
|Please only pick these seats if you're a pilot
|Cockpit
|These are the cockpit seats, typically saved for the airline's employee pilots. However it's possible the airline might have a system like in [[726: Seat Selection]], where a passenger can pick this seat.
|-
|Main stage
|rowspan="3"|{{w|First class (aviation)|First Class}}
|This plane is set up to hold a concert or other performance in flight.
|-
|Mosh pit
|A {{w|mosh pit}} is common in punk and heavy metal concert performances. Moshing during take-off, landing and (potentially) during periods of in-flight turbulence would not be very safe, but moshers (and any performers) would presumably also have a booked seat.
|-
|Various fancy classes
|Airlines make a point of distinguishing between their "fancy classes", such as First Class and Business Class, but this one humorously buckets them together. (This is the first actual seating type.)
|-
|Some airplane companies waste this space
|Wings
|Randall is making a joke about how an airplane’s wings could hypothetically be used as extra seating space, and how he is surprised that not many airlines are taking advantage of this. In reality the space inside the wings is minimal. It may hold fuel but there would be not the vertical room available, in most airframes, compared to the fuselage which can hold at least one floor of passengers as well as cargo/functional space below. The {{w|Junkers G.38}} was one airplane that had seating in the wing (and forward facing windows).
If the seating was on the surface of the wing, passengers would constantly feel the effects of wind. Additionally, airplane wings are designed to allow more air to flow over the top in order for the plane to stay up. If airline companies actually utilized this idea, the plane could not be able to fly so well due to the air-resistance (and resulting turbulence) from the seating and the passengers would be having a ''really'' inconvenient time.
|-
|Lookout
|End of wings
|A "lookout" is more common at the edges of things like army encampments or pirate ships, not planes. These passengers seem to look for any dangers – perhaps the pursuers mentioned in the description of the tail gunners.
|-
|Passenger has to pedal
|Propellers
|These passengers' responsibility is to pedal, turning propellers that inexplicably operate alongside the jet engines (which is very unusual, unlike engines that are {{w|turboprop}}, {{w|propfan}}, etc, which may have usefully integrated jet turbine and propeller technology in a single unit). It is not feasible for even two passengers to contribute sufficient power to make a significant difference to that already supplied by two jet engines. {{w|Human-powered aircraft|Pedal-powered planes}} do exist, although not in combination with jet engines. However, the "has to" might imply that they are providing a significant contribution to the thrust, which is unlikely with such a heavy aircraft already equipped with jet engines.
Alternatively, it is merely an ''obligation'' forced upon anyone who sits there, and that by taking such seats (perhaps at a reduced/negative seat-price) they ''must'' be willing to pedal as a token contribution when asked to, just as exit row seats can come with additional responsibilities to assist the aircrew in the case of an emergency. Or perhaps those seated there are even physically compelled to, as the freely rotating propeller turns the pedals, to which they are tightly strapped, rather than the other way round.
|-
|Hole for trash
|Middle of plane, just behind wings
|In reality, a big hole here would reduce cabin pressure and be a danger to people or things falling through the hole (such as drink carts as mentioned in the title text). Planes try to keep all trash on board until they land.

There have been reported incidents of waste (from bathrooms) falling from airplanes in the form of "{{w|Blue_ice_(aviation)|Blue Ice}}", though these are by accidental leaks rather than by design.
|-
|Sidecar
|Attached to left side of plane, behind wings
|Some vehicles like motorbikes have a sidecar, a small device attached to the main vehicle. An airplane sidecar would make it less stable unless accounted for in the initial design. The {{w|Rutan Boomerang}} and {{w|Blohm & Voss BV 141}} are notable exceptions, but their sidecars are not for passengers.
|-
|Extra middle seats
|Back of plane
|Here instead of having an aisle between three seats on the left and three on the right, the aisle separates one seat on the left and five on the right. Those five seats are an aisle seat, three middle seats and a window seat. This setup could actually exist, although it would be inconvenient to traverse. Middle seats are considered less desirable than aisle or window seats, so intentionally adding more is unusual. Those who might actually like this arrangement include larger families with small kids who wish to sit together, as well as solitary travelers who want a seat that's both an aisle and a window, with no one next to them.
|-
|Bumper car seating
|Just in front of tail
|These seats are presumably not attached to anything, instead able to move freely like bumper cars – not exactly a safe way to fly.{{citation needed}} Alternatively, the seats could simply be {{w|Bumper cars}}.
|-
|Penthouse
|Tail (rudder)
|A seat located in (or upon the front slope of) the vertical stabiliser, presumably higher than the rest of the seats. The tail of a plane does not usually have any seating, and airlines do not generally appreciate having passengers "higher than the pilot".

Some Etihad Airways planes actually have an apartment like cabin class called "the residence" that is sometimes called a penthouse by the media. That is located at the front of the plane, though, and it is unclear if this a reference to that.
|-
|Extra legroom
|Hanging off of front-left surface of the horizontal stabiliser
|A common complaint with airplane seating is the lack of legroom. These seats do not have this problem – in fact, they have the entire atmosphere as legroom. Loss of shoes and/or glasses or other loose clothing could be an issue, as these seats appear to be outside the protection of the pressure-controlled main cabin, so passengers would bear the brunt of the wind. Additionally, the experience would almost certainly be fatal, as shown by {{what if|64|this what if? article}}.
|-
|Fighter escort
|Separate, smaller plane
|A smaller fighter jet flying alongside the main plane, apparently with seating options for 14 passengers (most real military "fighter jets" only have one or two seats). A few seats are at the front of the fighter, which means that those passengers may have to operate the jet if it's not autonomous.

A fighter escort would more normally be deployed to escort a plane that was considered a potential target, but not usually as a simple extension of the main flight.
|-
|Tail gunners (Must protect plane from pursuers but earn extra miles)
|Tail (riding above the stabiliser)
|Rear-facing machine guns, or "Tail guns" were common in certain military aircraft during World War 2. People in these seats must protect the plane from any pursuers. The fact that these people are passengers is clear from the incentive of extra air miles. {{w|Frequent-flyer program|Frequent-flyer programs}} are a common system that airlines implement where passengers can receive special awards for flying often. It's not uncommon for different fare classes to earn different amounts of miles, but the difference is traditionally due to price or class, not because of in-flight services rendered.
|}

The total of 182 seats on the plane is a similar amount to a typically equipped Boeing 737-800, a very popular passenger plane. Up to 7,000 are in use around the world for short-range and mid-range flights. A typical Boeing 737-800 with 189 seats has a one-class layout in the configuration of two blocks (left and right) with each row of each block having three seats (left/middle/right). A bit simpler than what's seen here.

The presence of lookouts, tail gunners and a fighter escort suggests that this plane expects to be a target of air-to-air attacks, which suggests it may be carrying VIPs and flying over uncontrolled airspace with the possibility of attack.

The title text expands on the hole, suggesting that it was a common occurrence for drink carts to fall down the hole until they implemented wheel locks. The lack of wheel locks would make it easier for a cart to slide towards the hole.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:Typical Airliner Seating Chart

:[Labeled items of a plane from front to back:]
:[Front of plane:]
:Cowcatcher
:[Cockpit (2 seats):]
:Please only pick these seats if you're a pilot
:[First Class section (22 seats):]
:Main stage
:Mosh pit
:Various fancy classes
:[Wings (2 x 55 seats):]
:Some airplane companies waste this space
:[Ends of wings (2 x 1 seat):]
:Lookout
:[Propellers (2 x 1 seat):]
:Passenger has to pedal
:[Middle of plane, just behind wings:]
:Hole for trash
:[Left side of plane, behind wings (7 seats):]
:Sidecar
:[Back of plane (24 seats):]
:Extra middle seats
:[Just in front of tail (4 seats):]
:Bumper car seating
:[Tail (1 seat):]
:Penthouse
:[Hanging off of left side of tail (3 seats):]
:Extra legroom
:[Tail (4 seats):]
:Tail gunners (Must protect plane from pursuers but earn extra miles)

:[Separate, smaller plane to the right (14 seats):]
:Fighter escort

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Aviation]]

2862: Typical Seating Chart

2025-10-22T05:57:16Z

82.132.236.174: /* Explanation */ Was only going to correct the incorrectly quoted "must" to "has to", but added a few extra bits (with rearrangement) that occured to me.

{{comic
| number = 2862
| date = December 1, 2023
| title = Typical Seating Chart
| image = typical_seating_chart_2x.png
| imagesize = 740x943px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = Now that airlines have started adding wheel locks to their drink carts, less than half of flights have one accidentally fall out through the hole.
}}

==Explanation==
This comic shows a seating chart for a 182-seat airplane (and its fighter escort) with several unusual features.

{|class = "wikitable"
! Label !! Location !! Notes
|-
|{{w|Cowcatcher}}
|Front of plane
|This looks like a {{w|Cowcatcher|train cowcatcher}}, a metal grate on the front of some trains, which is intended to ''deflect'' obstacles (including animals) rather than actually capture them. This one could help deflect livestock both on the ground (while taxiing) and perhaps also in the air (to "catch" flying cows, such as any that have decided to jump over the Moon).

A bit of trivia: in railroad parlance, the cowcatcher is known as a ''Pilot''.
|-
|Please only pick these seats if you're a pilot
|Cockpit
|These are the cockpit seats, typically saved for the airline's employee pilots. However it's possible the airline might have a system like in [[726: Seat Selection]], where a passenger can pick this seat.
|-
|Main stage
|rowspan="3"|{{w|First class (aviation)|First Class}}
|This plane is set up to hold a concert or other performance in flight.
|-
|Mosh pit
|A {{w|mosh pit}} is common in punk and heavy metal concert performances. Moshing during take-off, landing and (potentially) during periods of in-flight turbulence would not be very safe, but moshers (and any performers) would presumably also have a booked seat.
|-
|Various fancy classes
|Airlines make a point of distinguishing between their "fancy classes", such as First Class and Business Class, but this one humorously buckets them together. (This is the first actual seating type.)
|-
|Some airplane companies waste this space
|Wings
|Randall is making a joke about how an airplane’s wings could hypothetically be used as extra seating space, and how he is surprised that not many airlines are taking advantage of this. In reality the space inside the wings is minimal. It may hold fuel but there would be not the vertical room available, in most airframes, compared to the fuselage which can hold at least one floor of passengers as well as cargo/functional space below. The {{w|Junkers G.38}} was one airplane that had seating in the wing (and forward facing windows).
If the seating was on the surface of the wing, passengers would constantly feel the effects of wind. Additionally, airplane wings are designed to allow more air to flow over the top in order for the plane to stay up. If airline companies actually utilized this idea, the plane could not be able to fly so well due to the air-resistance (and resulting turbulence) from the seating and the passengers would be having a ''really'' inconvenient time.
|-
|Lookout
|End of wings
|A "lookout" is more common at the edges of things like army encampments or pirate ships, not planes. These passengers seem to look for any dangers – perhaps the pursuers mentioned in the description of the tail gunners.
|-
|Passenger has to pedal
|Propellers
|These passengers' responsibility is to pedal, turning propellers that inexplicably operate alongside the jet engines (which is very unusual, unlike engines that are {{w|turboprop}}, {{w|propfan}}, etc, which may have usefully integrated jet turbine and propeller technology in a single unit). It is not feasible for even two passengers to contribute sufficient power to make a significant difference to that already supplied by two jet engines. {{w|Human-powered aircraft|Pedal-powered planes}} do exist, although not in combination with jet engines. However, the "has to" might imply that they are providing a significant contribution to the thrust, which is unlikely with such a heavy aircraft already equipped with jet engines.
Alternatively, it is merely an ''obligation'' forced upon anyone who sits there, and that by taking such seats (perhaps at a reduced/negative seat-price) they ''must'' be willing to pedal as a token contribution when asked to, just as exit row seats can come with additional responsibilities to assist the aircrew in the case of an emergency. Or perhaps those seates there are even physically compelled to, as the freely rotating propeller turns the pedals, to which they are tightly strapped, rather than the other way round.
|-
|Hole for trash
|Middle of plane, just behind wings
|In reality, a big hole here would reduce cabin pressure and be a danger to people or things falling through the hole (such as drink carts as mentioned in the title text). Planes try to keep all trash on board until they land.

There have been reported incidents of waste (from bathrooms) falling from airplanes in the form of "{{w|Blue_ice_(aviation)|Blue Ice}}", though these are by accidental leaks rather than by design.
|-
|Sidecar
|Attached to left side of plane, behind wings
|Some vehicles like motorbikes have a sidecar, a small device attached to the main vehicle. An airplane sidecar would make it less stable unless accounted for in the initial design. The {{w|Rutan Boomerang}} and {{w|Blohm & Voss BV 141}} are notable exceptions, but their sidecars are not for passengers.
|-
|Extra middle seats
|Back of plane
|Here instead of having an aisle between three seats on the left and three on the right, the aisle separates one seat on the left and five on the right. Those five seats are an aisle seat, three middle seats and a window seat. This setup could actually exist, although it would be inconvenient to traverse. Middle seats are considered less desirable than aisle or window seats, so intentionally adding more is unusual. Those who might actually like this arrangement include larger families with small kids who wish to sit together, as well as solitary travelers who want a seat that's both an aisle and a window, with no one next to them.
|-
|Bumper car seating
|Just in front of tail
|These seats are presumably not attached to anything, instead able to move freely like bumper cars – not exactly a safe way to fly.{{citation needed}} Alternatively, the seats could simply be {{w|Bumper cars}}.
|-
|Penthouse
|Tail (rudder)
|A seat located in (or upon the front slope of) the vertical stabiliser, presumably higher than the rest of the seats. The tail of a plane does not usually have any seating, and airlines do not generally appreciate having passengers "higher than the pilot".

Some Etihad Airways planes actually have an apartment like cabin class called "the residence" that is sometimes called a penthouse by the media. That is located at the front of the plane, though, and it is unclear if this a reference to that.
|-
|Extra legroom
|Hanging off of front-left surface of the horizontal stabiliser
|A common complaint with airplane seating is the lack of legroom. These seats do not have this problem – in fact, they have the entire atmosphere as legroom. Loss of shoes and/or glasses or other loose clothing could be an issue, as these seats appear to be outside the protection of the pressure-controlled main cabin, so passengers would bear the brunt of the wind. Additionally, the experience would almost certainly be fatal, as shown by {{what if|64|this what if? article}}.
|-
|Fighter escort
|Separate, smaller plane
|A smaller fighter jet flying alongside the main plane, apparently with seating options for 14 passengers (most real military "fighter jets" only have one or two seats). A few seats are at the front of the fighter, which means that those passengers may have to operate the jet if it's not autonomous.

A fighter escort would more normally be deployed to escort a plane that was considered a potential target, but not usually as a simple extension of the main flight.
|-
|Tail gunners (Must protect plane from pursuers but earn extra miles)
|Tail (riding above the stabiliser)
|Rear-facing machine guns, or "Tail guns" were common in certain military aircraft during World War 2. People in these seats must protect the plane from any pursuers. The fact that these people are passengers is clear from the incentive of extra air miles. {{w|Frequent-flyer program|Frequent-flyer programs}} are a common system that airlines implement where passengers can receive special awards for flying often. It's not uncommon for different fare classes to earn different amounts of miles, but the difference is traditionally due to price or class, not because of in-flight services rendered.
|}

The total of 182 seats on the plane is a similar amount to a typically equipped Boeing 737-800, a very popular passenger plane. Up to 7,000 are in use around the world for short-range and mid-range flights. A typical Boeing 737-800 with 189 seats has a one-class layout in the configuration of two blocks (left and right) with each row of each block having three seats (left/middle/right). A bit simpler than what's seen here.

The presence of lookouts, tail gunners and a fighter escort suggests that this plane expects to be a target of air-to-air attacks, which suggests it may be carrying VIPs and flying over uncontrolled airspace with the possibility of attack.

The title text expands on the hole, suggesting that it was a common occurrence for drink carts to fall down the hole until they implemented wheel locks. The lack of wheel locks would make it easier for a cart to slide towards the hole.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:Typical Airliner Seating Chart

:[Labeled items of a plane from front to back:]
:[Front of plane:]
:Cowcatcher
:[Cockpit (2 seats):]
:Please only pick these seats if you're a pilot
:[First Class section (22 seats):]
:Main stage
:Mosh pit
:Various fancy classes
:[Wings (2 x 55 seats):]
:Some airplane companies waste this space
:[Ends of wings (2 x 1 seat):]
:Lookout
:[Propellers (2 x 1 seat):]
:Passenger has to pedal
:[Middle of plane, just behind wings:]
:Hole for trash
:[Left side of plane, behind wings (7 seats):]
:Sidecar
:[Back of plane (24 seats):]
:Extra middle seats
:[Just in front of tail (4 seats):]
:Bumper car seating
:[Tail (1 seat):]
:Penthouse
:[Hanging off of left side of tail (3 seats):]
:Extra legroom
:[Tail (4 seats):]
:Tail gunners (Must protect plane from pursuers but earn extra miles)

:[Separate, smaller plane to the right (14 seats):]
:Fighter escort

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Aviation]]

Talk:3157: Emperor Palpatine

2025-10-21T21:39:02Z

82.132.236.174:

What happens when he is five years old in canon Star Wars [[User:Mathmaster|Mathmaster]] ([[User talk:Mathmaster|talk]])
:As a Youngling, he would obviously get a funny hat and a 'not quite so dangerous' training-lightsaber. At least for Jedi training, can't speak for Sith training, which probably goes with the exact opposite (funny shoes and a lightsaber that has no hilt?)... ;) 22:13, 20 October 2025 (UTC)

I don't think the title text is sarcastic. Making Palpatine look older in Return of the Jedi allowed the actor's age to be very precise for the character in the 3 subsequent movies (while allowing the same actor playing the character). --[[Special:Contributions/181.236.188.58|181.236.188.58]] 22:22, 20 October 2025 (UTC)

My first thought when reading the alt-text was of the reincarnated leader of the History Monks in the Discworld, analogous to the Dalai Lama. The memories and personallity of an old man, in the body of a toddler. The wise old man is normally in control, but sometimes the toddler takes over, leading to him wanting a biccie. {{unsigned ip|92.239.132.210|15:34, 21 October 2025}}

If he actually included a data point at Ian=74, Emperor=119 for Rise of Skywalker instead of just claiming "undefined", the trendline would have a positive slope...regardless of whether or not 119 is accurate, he clearly appears older than he does in Return of the Jedi, and even adding a point at (74, 89) would still result in a positive slope. However, I can get behind the idea of pretending Rise of Skywalker doesn't exist. [[Special:Contributions/136.226.154.60|136.226.154.60]] 16:24, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

Just by film chronology (because the EU and extended-EU already dealt with it, but has been largely decanonised since then), the true age of any particular Palpatine clone (there still may have been other extant ones, as well as such dead failures as might remain) is probably not much older than Jango's initial contribution to the Clone Trooper project, the same process being used (though not also on Kamino), and so roughly as old as Bobba Fett would be at that point (if surviving the Sarlak, etc), having had little to no 'aging up' treatment. Though ''with'' the aging up, effective developmental age is accelerated, and with both the hit'n'miss nature of the emperor-cloning process and the need of Exegol's caretakers to always try to keep a not-too-decrepit clone at hand to become a ready vessel for Sheev's spirit to occupy, his body's true age is probably quite young even if his apparent age is far older. And, in terms of psychological age, he's probably ''exactly'' as old as if he had not jumped-bodies, or maybe that minus any 'gap time' that his Sithish force-ghost might have had to have spent in some form of stasis as the transplantation process was being put into effect. [[Special:Contributions/82.132.236.174|82.132.236.174]] 21:39, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

3157: Emperor Palpatine

2025-10-21T21:11:54Z

82.132.236.174: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 3157
| date = October 20, 2025
| title = Emperor Palpatine
| image = emperor_palpatine_2x.png
| imagesize = 538x531px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = Many things about Star Wars were not well planned out, but having a 37-year-old in old-age makeup play the Emperor in Return of the Jedi was such an incredible call.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|This page was created by A BOT OF UNCERTAIN AGE. Don't remove this notice too soon.}}
This comic about {{w|extrapolation}} tracks the age of the {{w|Star Wars}} character {{w|Palpatine}} against the age of the actor who played him.

The primary film series of the Star Wars franchise consists of three trilogies: the original trilogy (1977-1983, portraying the immediate lead up to the Battle of Yavin until 4 <abbr title="years After the Battle of Yavin">ABY</abbr>), the prequel trilogy (1999-2005, portraying 32 <abbr title="years Before the Battle of Yavin">BBY</abbr> to 19 BBY), and the sequel trilogy (2015-2019, during 34-35 ABY). Palpatine is played by {{w|Ian McDiarmid}} in at least one film from each trilogy (and all three films of the prequel trilogy).

The character of Emperor Palpatine was briefly mentioned in the first {{w|Star Wars}} movie and appears briefly in {{w|The Empire Strikes Back}} (see the Trivia section below), but doesn't have significant screen time until {{w|Return of the Jedi}} in 1983, which is when McDiarmid took on the role. He was presented as an elderly, withered, and physically decaying man, despite being played by an actor in his 30s. The character is killed near the end of the film.

The prequels portray Palpatine's rise from Senator to Chancellor to Emperor. He was 55 when the first of the prequels was made, and used no obvious aging (or de-aging) makeup or other effects, implying that the Palpatine of this era was approximately the same age as the actor (which fits nicely with the timeline of the universe).

{{w|The Rise of Skywalker}} was the third film of the sequel trilogy. Infamously, this film reveals that "somehow, Palpatine returned". This is somewhat vaguely explained by references to "dark signs, cloning, secrets only the Sith knew". McDiarmid, now in his 70s, played the role once again. While he appears at least as aged as the actor (and far more physically corrupted) the joke is that, if he was cloned, his new body had an "undefined age", but was presumably younger than Palpatine would have been had he survived beyond his previous appearances.

The title text suggests that the makers of Star Wars had planned this out from the beginning, and so deliberately chose a 37-year-old actor to play an elderly character, specifically so that he could continue to play the part throughout the entire film series. In fact, the long-term direction of the films were never well-planned, and the notion that the films would be made over the course of more than 4 decades was probably not ever predicted. The idea that casting was made on that assumption is unlikely in the extreme. The fact that the same actor was able to reprise his role over such a long period of time was almost certainly just a matter of luck.

Putting all this together, [[Randall]] comes up with chart comparing the actor's age to that of the character, and concludes that they have an inverse relationship. Extrapolating this forward, he proposes that McDiarmid (81 years old, as of the publication of this strip) be brought back to play the Emperor as a toddler.

The joke, of course, is that this kind of extrapolation is ridiculous. In addition to the silliness of the subject matter, the data isn't used properly. Considering that there are only four good data points (plus a fifth where one of the dimensions is unclear, so should be excluded), there is not really sufficient data to make a proper extrapolation from here. Furthermore, three of the data points are clustered closely together, reducing their usefulness as independent markers.

This comic continues a long theme of applying graphing and extrapolation poorly, and in situations where they're not appropriate, to show the kinds of ridiculous conclusions it can lead to. [[:Category:Extrapolation|See here for other examples]]

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Don't remove this notice too soon.}}
[:A scatter chart with the y scale from 0 to 120 and x scale from 30 to 90]

[:X axis is labeled "Emperor Palpatine character age" and Y axis is labeled "Ian McDiarmid age during filming"]

[:Point labeled "Return of the Jedi"] x value = ~39, y value = ~87

[:Point labeled "The Phantom Menace"] x value = ~50, y value = ~52

[:Point labeled "Attack of the Clones"] x value = ~52, y value = 61

[:Point labeled "Revenge of the Sith"] x value = ~60, y value = ~62

[:Hollow circle with a dashed outline labeled "Now"] x value = ~81, y value = ~4

[:Vertical Line with gradient labeled "The Rise of Skywalker (cloned body, undefined age)". The gradient is darkest around the y values from 40 to 50, and becomes lighter towards either extreme of the y axis.] x value = ~75

[:A thick black arrow trending downwards from the "Return of the Jedi" point to "The Phantom Menace" and nearby points]

[:Another thick black arrow trending downwards from "The Phantom Menace" and nearby points to the "Now" circle]

[:caption beneath panel]

To continue the trend, they should make a star wars movie where 81-year-old Ian Mcdiarmid plays the emperor as a toddler.

==Trivia==
Not depicted upon the graph are Palpatine's prior actors from the original release of Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back, when Palpatine would have been 88. {{w|Marjorie Eaton}} (79) visually played the character (although some sources disagree, and have Elaine Baker, at the time 27 and married to the film's makeup designer, in the role), with similarly heavy prosthetics to McDiarmid, whilst Clive Revill (50) provided the voice. For the 2004 DVD release, the scene was reshot with McDiarmid, who was 60 at the time.

{{comic discussion}}<noinclude>
[[Category:Extrapolation]]
[[Category:Star Wars]]
[[Category:Scatter plots]]

Talk:3157: Emperor Palpatine

2025-10-21T16:08:19Z

82.132.236.174: *'accidentally' boinks you with a toy*

3157: Emperor Palpatine

2025-10-21T15:59:17Z

82.132.236.174: /* Explanation */

3157: Emperor Palpatine

2025-10-21T13:54:27Z

82.132.236.174: /* Trivia */

3157: Emperor Palpatine

2025-10-21T13:53:43Z

82.132.236.174: /* Transcript */

3157: Emperor Palpatine

2025-10-21T13:29:48Z

82.132.236.174: /* Explanation */

3157: Emperor Palpatine

2025-10-21T13:22:01Z

82.132.236.174: /* Explanation */ punc

Talk:1698: Theft Quadrants

2025-10-21T13:13:10Z

82.132.236.174:

Come to think of it, I haven't accidentally hit a porn site in years. Is Randall even referring to a real problem? Anyone remember whitehouse dot com? And for the record, kids, [http://purl.net/net/tbc/writing/xxx.htm don't do porn]. ''— [[User:Tbc|tbc]] ([[User talk:Tbc|talk]]) 12:27, 24 June 2016 (UTC)''

I think the sentences "It is hard to steal nuclear launch codes. And a good thing too since they could be used to start a nuclear war." are weird... to me on the first read it sounded like it is a good thing to steal them... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.85.63|162.158.85.63]]

What is it with Randall and stealing wienermobiles? [http://www.xkcd.com/935/ xkcd 935] [[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.62|173.245.52.62]] 15:12, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
:I added it to the explanation, thanks! [[User:Elipongo|Elipongo]] ([[User talk:Elipongo|talk]]) 16:16, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
:There's also a wienermobile in xkcd 1110 parked to the right of the Burj. [[Special:Contributions/198.41.239.33|198.41.239.33]] 11:03, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

A somewhat similar thing really happened in one of the URL shortening services in Taiwan. This case is not that the domain is stolen; the problem is that its database storing shortened URL mappings, because of some mis-operation in converting database data, is rolled back and some shortened URLs are "double-booked." According to the announcement of the service, this affects over 234 thousand entries in the database. This leads to PTT, the largest terminal-based bulletin board system in Taiwan, bans shortened URLs from this service. --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.222.40|108.162.222.40]] 20:21, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

''sites can be particularly vulnerable if they do not maintain their web site'' - what? You can have domain name without ANY web site at all. "lapse" likely refers to owners stopping paying. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 11:09, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

(Trying again... the CAPTCHA is glitching out on me.) "It is also hard to steal the {{w|Crown Jewels of the United Kingdom|Crown Jewels}}, since they are protected by a [http://yeomenoftheguard.com/Windsor%20Castle.jpg complex security system]." - The items that are the first linked items are not at the location the second link points to... [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.131|141.101.98.131]] 16:20, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

In line with the above comments: the whole section on the crown jewels and the wienermobile seem to miss the point and get hung up on very minor details. Stealing the crown jewels would make a few people fabulously rich, a few people significantly poorer (or jailed, or court-martialled, depending), but would hardly affect anyone else in real terms other than making millions of people - all around the world - very upset. Saying that ''Randall erroneously assumes'' that there would be little consequence to stealing the wienermobile is just silly: there is nothing erroneous about it since it could never have a material effect on more than a few individuals, and the possibility of someone being injured or killed during the robbery is irrelevant since it applies equally well to the nuclear or crown jewels options. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.229.44|108.162.229.44]] 16:12, 26 June 2016 (UTC)

In regards to stealing tinyurl.com, I don't think it would actually be that easy. In the title text Randall suggests picking up the domain name when it expires. Because some domains were stolen that way in the past, ICANN has changed the rules for the major top-level-domains, including .com. Now, after a domain name expires, the original register has a 45 day auto-renew grace period where they can re-register it without penalty. If they miss that period, they have an additional 30 day grace period where it can be re-registered with a penalty. The domain name stops working when it initially expires so it would be nearly impossible for a company like tinyurl to get to the end of both grace periods without noticing and fixing the problem. These new rules make it effectively impossible for an organization to lose its domain name by failing to renew on a timely basis. [https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/expired-2013-05-03-en Reference]

Since Randall only mentioned domain expiration as the way it might be stolen, it is unclear whether or not he was considering a more direct domain name hijacking. I'm less familiar with how easy domain hijacking might be but considering that their entire business depends on their domain name, I can't imagine it would actually be that easy.

Regarding the current explanation (and has been pointed out already), saying that "sites can be particularly vulnerable if they do not maintain their web site" is very wrong. This has nothing to do with maintaining a website, and only has to do with maintaining thei domain name. The website and domain name are two very different things, so this isn't just a matter of nitpicking. However, as I have explained above, the entire concept is no longer correct. There is now a grace period up to 75 days long for .com domains during which registrars are not allowed to sell the domain name to another third party. {{unsigned|Cmancone}}

It might be a lot easier than you think to steal the launch codes. For nearly 20 years the USA's launch code was 00000000. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.255.135|162.158.255.135]] 22:51, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

:Be honest: if you were to guess the launch codes, would you have guessed that? [[User:Phineas81707|Phineas81707]] ([[User talk:Phineas81707|talk]]) 14:11, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

This is a bit of a style guide comment: can we please leave the Citation Needed Joke out of "nuclear war is bad"? The joke worked in our explanation of [[180: Canada]] because it was related to the comic itself. Here, not so much. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.255.127|162.158.255.127]] 01:43, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

The description seems to assume that “printed publication” means “offline articles”. It also means “scientific article which passed peer-review”, hence a joke as serious scientific paper may be discredited as potentially redirecting to porn websites. Does anyone also share my interpretation? [[User:Greatfermat|Greatfermat]] ([[User talk:Greatfermat|talk]]) 16:14, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

https://tinyurl.com/Theft-Quadrants [[User:Opalzukor|Opalzukor]] ([[User talk:Opalzukor|talk]]) 15:31, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

Guise! It finally happened! It's getting patched rapidly. https://www.vice.com/en/article/qj8xz3/a-defunct-video-hosting-site-is-flooding-normal-websites-with-hardcore-porn [[Special:Contributions/172.70.82.142|172.70.82.142]] 02:04, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

I'm sceptical about just how bad stealing the launch codes would really be; there's a lot of procedure beyond just having the right codes, and they change them every day anyway so your window is really small. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.117.92|172.70.117.92]] 21:17, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

And there go the crown jewels. 2/4, let's see if we can... ok, well maybe not the launch codes, but who wants the Wienermobile? [[Special:Contributions/47.141.47.226|47.141.47.226]] 00:24, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
:You mean the {{w|2025 Louvre robbery|''French'' crown jewels}}, of course. Looks like they were far far easier to reach (and escape with) than they should have been. There are many 'crowns' (as are, or were) that have concomitant collections of '{{w|crown jewels}}', naturally, with varying individual risks of being stolen (or already have been). I suspect that Randall was nodding towards the specifically English/British/United Kingdom set, and it'll take more than a works-ladder, some tools and some reflective vests to get them. (Probably not even how various fictional {{w|List of Hustle episodes#Series 2 (2005)|heist-dramas}} imagine it, of course.) [[Special:Contributions/82.132.236.174|82.132.236.174]] 13:13, 21 October 2025 (UTC)