explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

Talk:2322: ISO Paper Size Golden Spiral

2020-06-30T15:32:24Z

BleepBox: I'm a graphic designer, but this doesn't annoy me.

It annoys me that the hover text says 11/8.5 = pi/4, when 8.5/11≈0.77272727272 and pi/4≈0.78539816339. Claiming 8.5/11 equals pi/4 would be a much more beleiveable lie. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.79.37|162.158.79.37]] 15:29, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
:The title text has since corrected this error![[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.170|108.162.219.170]] 07:14, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

The explanation says that the A series "side lengths shrink by a factor of the square root of two" but that's not true. The width of A(n+1) is half the length of A(n) as depicted. The sqrt(2) ratio referenced is between the length and width of any one piece of paper.[[Special:Contributions/172.69.62.124|172.69.62.124]] 15:35, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
:The side lengths do shrink by a factor of sqrt(2): the width of A(n) is sqrt(2) times the width of A(n+1), the length of A(n) is sqrt(2) times the length of A(n+1). Your statement that "the width of A(n+1) is half the length of A(n)" is also true, but it does not contradict that each step in the A-series shrinks the sides by a factor of sqrt(2). [[User:Zmatt|Zmatt]] ([[User talk:Zmatt|talk]]) 16:09, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Fixed it [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.61|162.158.74.61]] 15:43, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Hi ! How come 11/8.5 = Pi/4 ? First one is more thant 1, second one is less than one... Although Pi/4 and 8.5/11 (or the reverse) are pretty similar, as usual in "let's annoy mathematicians" Randall's style...

I think y’all just got nerd sniped by Randall’s title text.

https://xkcd.com/spiral/ --[[Special:Contributions/188.114.103.233|188.114.103.233]] 17:22, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

I understand why it annoys mathematicians (it's not the golden ratio), but why does it annoy graphics designers? Please add explanation!
::I suspect that what would annoy many (if not most) graphic designers (especially Americans) is the claim that the ISO standard for paper sizes (which is very rarely used in the US) is inherently and objectively beautiful, along with the implication that everyone should switch to using the international standard.
::The usual graphic for this is vertical and has the paper sizes getting smaller going towards the top left corner, not positioned in a spiral.
::More scientifically-minded designers would be just as annoyed as (most) mathematicians are by the persistent myth that there is something inherently beautiful about the "golden ratio" in the first place, but unfortunately they are probably not in the majority.[[Special:Contributions/172.69.50.76|172.69.50.76]] 17:50, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
::I'm a graphic designer, and this doesn't annoy me. Perhaps because I'm not particularly fond of the golden ratio. I can only speak for myself. [[User:BleepBox|BleepBox]] ([[User talk:BleepBox|talk]]) 15:32, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

It should be noted that the logarithmic spiral this comic implies it is would actually go outside the bounds of the paper. The leftmost point of the spiral would be about 6.4mm to the left of the left edge of the A1 sheet. [[User:Zmatt|Zmatt]] ([[User talk:Zmatt|talk]]) 18:39, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
:This drawing (as opposed to the singular mathematical formula behind the idealised spiral for the partitioning used) basically takes a simple quarter-oval across each distinct sheet size (with, as essentially mentioned elsewhere, the root(2) ratio between sides) alternating x/y and y/x as major and minor axes respectively. Even if it is not obviously discontinuous (x and y inflection transitions occur subtly) any derivative of the curve (as polar, say) would show jumps in gradient at each stage - probably an inclined-stepped/saw-toothy pattern whereas the true logarithmic line would demonstrate itself as a continuous function at any such level of derivation. The true spiral line followed from origin outwards would ''almost'' (not quite, because of the polar gradient) hit the 'outer edge' first in line with the ultimately recursive centre-point then withdraw again to hit the next transition slightly 'inward' of the next level out. The Golden Spiral approximation uses squares for each quarter, which therefore does not switch major and minor axes, but still changes the curve  and thus has the same not-quite-Golden nature. Although it's hard to describe, as you can see from my poor attempt that's probably inadvertently fallen foul of more specialised Pure Mathematics terminology due to the Pedant's Curse... ;) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.155.240|162.158.155.240]] 22:23, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Mathematicians get annoyed by the claim that the golden ratio is everywhere. I love Disney's "Donald in Mathmagic Land" but they make some outrageous claims about the golden ratio's place in art and architecture. BTW, the ISO system of paper sizes is awesome! You can photocopy two A4 pages side-by-side, reduced to fit exactly on a single A4 page.
:Also they get pi wrong. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.79.209|162.158.79.209]] 22:18, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

: I think you mean that half of A4 is A3 ;o) [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.248|108.162.249.248]] 05:02, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Isn't grade closer to degrees than to radians? [[User:Djbrasier|Djbrasier]] ([[User talk:Djbrasier|talk]]) 15:03, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
:It's two different things. The "[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grade_(slope) grade]" of a slope is just the rise divided by the run, commonly expressed as a precentage. It is not an angle measure but the tangent of an angle measure. It is commonly used in North America for surveying and engineering purposes. "[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gradian Gradian]" is a badly named angle measurement that, worse, is often referred to informally as "grade" from "centigrade".It is an angle measure, though a useless one: ten-ninths of the measure in degrees. The gradian is commonly used for surveying and engineering in some parts of Europe. The text in the current explanation confuses them, which is common due to the bad naming of the second measure. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.187.197|162.158.187.197]] 16:45, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

A friend of mine, attempting to do graphic design, once created an approximate golden spiral using the boxes diagram with quarter circles. He then laboriously produced a logo by making copies of the spiral and using pieces of it for each curve. I then informed him that all the curves in his image were just circular segments. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.69.44|172.69.69.44]] 16:36, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.216|108.162.216.216]] 15:21, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

The reason ISO paper sizes use an aspect ratio equal to the square root of two is that makes enlarging or reducing in copiers work better. With the US sizes, when you enlarge or reduce to the next standard size up or down, you have to choose between cutting off part of your original or leaving some blank space, because US standard paper sizes aren't the same shape.

It was done before photocopiers could do reduction or enlarging as cutting in half always produces the same shape of page.

[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.216|108.162.216.216]] 15:21, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

: I never knew this, but it is no surprise. :P [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.248|108.162.249.248]] 05:03, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

2326: Five Word Jargon

2020-06-30T15:14:33Z

BleepBox: The Title text does not mention using the phrases together in 'conversation', but refers to 'situations'. This comic is one such situation.

{{comic
| number = 2326
| date = June 29, 2020
| title = Five Word Jargon
| image = five_word_jargon.png
| titletext = My other (much harder) hobby is trying to engineer situations where I have an excuse to use more than one of them in short succession.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by BARYOGENESIS. Please mention here why this explanation isn't complete. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
Another comic in [[Randall]]'s [[: Category:My Hobby|My Hobby series]], this hobby involves "collecting" and presumably using five-words-long technical jargon. In the comic, [[White Hat]] uses one of the phrases when talking to [[Cueball]], causing Cueball to look up the jargon on his phone, or possibly record the words for future usage. Randall then proceeds to list 4 such phrases as a caption below the panel.

In the title text, Randall says that he has a second hobby to find or create situations to use ''multiple'' such phrases. It would seem difficult to combine the 4 listed phrases in a conversation, as they are from 4 separate fields (medicine, economics/statistics, biology, and physics/cosmology), but he has succeeded in using them close together in this comic.

===Technical jargon===
'''Transjugular intrahepatic portosystemic shunt placement''':
: A {{w|transjugular intrahepatic portosystemic shunt}} (TIPS) is "an artificial channel within the liver that connects the inflow portal vein and the outflow hepatic vein". It is used to treat various intestinal bleeding. This term can be found in this publication: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16850140/
:;transjugular
::the shunt is inserted via the jugular vein
:;intrahepatic
::within the liver
:;portosystemic
::blood is shunted from the portal vein (draining blood from the intestines to the liver) to the systemic circulation (returning blood from the liver to the heart)
:;shunt
::a tube within the body that bypasses the normal flow of something (whether a natural defect, or an artificial device)
:;placement
::the operation to insert it

'''Generalized autoregressive conditional heteroskedasticity model''':
: A {{w|Autoregressive conditional heteroskedasticity|generalized autoregressive conditional heteroskedasticity}} (GARCH) model is a statistical model for economic research. An autoregressive model of a time series is one that uses previous values of the time series to predict the next value. A conditional probability model is one that divides data into inputs and outputs and models the relation between them using a conditional probability distribution of the outputs given the inputs. A heteroskedastic distribution is one in which the variance (or standard deviation) of a random variable is not the same across all values of the variable. This phrase can be found in this publication: https://www.scirp.org/html/11-1241334_99870.htm

'''Unicellular diazotrophic cyanobacteria group A''':
: A {{w|unicellular}} {{w|diazotrophic}} {{w|cyanobacteria}} is a single-celled type of bacteria that is able to convert atmospheric nitrogen into a more usable form, and also generates oxygen through photosynthesis. "Group A" refers to the "first" group of several groups in a controlled experiment, or a scientific study. This term can be found in this publication: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4303622/

'''Anomalous electroweak sphaleron transition baryogenesis''':
: This is a term from {{w|Particle physics}}/{{w|cosmology}}. {{w|Baryon}}s are subatomic particles containing an odd number of quarks; protons and neutrons are the most familiar examples. {{w|Baryogenesis}} is the hypothetical physical process that took place during the early universe that produced more matter than antimatter in the observable universe (or it could be any process that produces baryons). {{w|Sphaleron}} is a static (time-independent) solution to the {{w|electroweak}} field equations of the Standard Model of particle physics, and is involved in certain hypothetical processes that change the number of baryons or {{w|leptons}} (e.g. forming baryons and removing leptons). It is believed that the electroweak interaction is responsible for baryogenesis, but that at the temperatures involved (~10<sup>15</sup> K), sphaleron interactions would wipe out any excess of baryons; therefore, for baryogenesis to "stick", it must have occurred at the ''transition'' out of the electroweak era...unless there were some kind of ''anomaly'' in the formation or interaction of sphalerons. Google reports no matches for the entire phrase in quotes, but shows about 70 results unquoted, indicating it finds only partial matches.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
:[White Hat is speaking to Cueball, who has his phone out, searching the phrase. White Hat has his palm raised.]
:White Hat: Yeah, I learned about it when I was researching anomalous electroweak sphaleron transition baryogenesis.
:Cueball: Cooool.
:Phone: ''A-N-O-M-''

:[Caption below the panel:]
:My Hobby: Collecting really satisfying-sounding five-word technical phrases.

:<u>Current favorites</u>
:<li>Transjugular intrahepatic portosystemic shunt placement
:<li>Generalized autoregressive conditional heteroskedasticity model
:<li>Unicellular diazotrophic cyanobacteria group A
:<li>Anomalous electroweak sphaleron transition baryogenesis

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:My Hobby]]
[[Category:Comics featuring White Hat]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Language]]
[[Category:Science]]
[[Category:Biology]]
[[Category:Physics]]
[[Category:Astronomy]]
[[Category:Statistics]]