explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

Talk:1521: Sword in the Stone

2015-05-06T21:37:15Z

BowtieMaster:

In Arthurian legend, whoever can remove the Sword in the Stone is the lawful king of England. Arthur is an orphan being raised in secret; he notices the sword, removes it, and is proclaimed king. The sword is sometimes identified as Excalibur, although in other versions Excalibur was acquired by King Arthur from the Lady of the Lake. The most familiar version of this story is ''The Sword in the Stone'' by T. H. White which is based on ''Le Mort d'Arthur'' by Sir Thomas Malory. Having a woman remove the sword would introduce difficulties. [[User:The Dining Logician|The Dining Logician]] ([[User talk:The Dining Logician|talk]]) 06:12, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Seriously? Megan being transgender is preposterous. The comic mentions a throne, not a king. The proposition that the character needs to be a man is far fetched and a bit sexist. The legend usually mentions a ruler, not a kind per se. Even if it were a king, that is a baseless statement. Legends are up to interpretation. If a woman pulls out a sword it is possible that she be crowned Queen without having a king. Case in point, Queen Elizabeth, Queen Victoria -of England; they both have seen the glory days of Britain. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.152|108.162.221.152]] 07:27, 6 May 2015 (UTC)BK201

: And there was {{w|Jadwiga of Poland}}, female who was crowned '''king'''. --[[User:JakubNarebski|JakubNarebski]] ([[User talk:JakubNarebski|talk]]) 07:33, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

: It's clearly Megan. Perhaps Aurthur has returned in female form (definitely not transgender), but it's unmistakably Megan. [[User:Djbrasier|Djbrasier]] ([[User talk:Djbrasier|talk]]) 13:01, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
::Agreed. Why should she even represent Arthur. Anyone who could take the sword out would get the throne. I think the explanation should say it is Megan and that she has taken the role Arthur had once. Also the idea that the new princess can get the throne even if she has younger brothers may be important here as written by another user below. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 16:01, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

In a visual novel, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saber_(Fate/stay_night) King Arthur is a girl]. --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.222.169|108.162.222.169]] 08:06, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Should be lawful king of Britain. King Arthur was fighting against the English. --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.66|141.101.98.66]] 08:30, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

If there were a real Arthur (dux bellorum or whatever) this is true, however in the legends things are much more complicated and inconsistent, so England is as good as anything else. -richardelguru

Minor point, but Vallum Aelium was built to control the Picti, the Scots of the Dál Riata came much later and Scotland (Rìoghachd na h-Alba) is traditionally founded in the late C9CE. -richardelguru

I doubt it's a coincidence that this comic was published the day before a UK general eating contest that is widely predicted to be heading for the most complicated hung parliament in history. The monarch is a purely ceremonial head of state in practically all respects, but does (in theory) have the responsibility to "ask" someone to form a government (in practice, the person asked is determined by who holds the parliamentary majority, but there are huge arguments raging about who will "legitimately" hold such a majority, the leader of the party with most seats or the leader who can rustle up the biggest coalition). [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.24|141.101.99.24]] 09:11, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

: I agree that this is a much more likely explanation for the timing of the comic. Don't have time to change the text myself right now ... --[[User:RenniePet|RenniePet]] ([[User talk:RenniePet|talk]]) 10:51, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

The punchline could also be about how it would be way too much hassle to try to lay claim to the throne in modern times, challenging the British royal family and all - Megan would probably be treated like a lunatic. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.88.223|141.101.88.223]] 11:19, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Arthur is a long haired boy [http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/lemondededisney/images/4/47/Moustique.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130715192648&path-prefix=fr], [http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51US9KARtXL._SY344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg]. The comic shows a boy, not a woman. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.201|108.162.221.201]] 12:56, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
: The original Arthur is certainly a boy, however this comic is in the xkcd universe and in modern times, so if it looks like Megan, it's Megan. There's nothing in the comic itself that hints at the gender of the character. [[User:N0lqu|-boB]] ([[User talk:N0lqu|talk]]) 14:43, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

I just thought that the joke was how distracting Wikipedia can be and that Megan/Arthur here gets addicted to reading Wikipedia articles of even the most obvious things in the least appropriate moment. "Oh cool, the throne of England? Isn't that that European country. Let's see how big it is. Oh, wow, 120,000 square kilometers. What's that in miles? Hmm, alright. Huh, kilometres is spelled like this according to the international spelling? What is that?" etc etc, you get the idea :p [[User:Maplestrip|Maplestrip]] ([[User talk:Maplestrip|talk]]) 12:59, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

: The title text would seem to go against that explanation.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.24|141.101.99.24]] 13:21, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

It's Megan. The new princess is the first woman who can inherent the throne without being leapfrogged by younger brothers. Before the Succession to the Crown Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succession_to_the_Crown_Act_2013) if Megan had pulled the sword out one of her brothers would have gotten to be King. (signed by jan) {{unsigned ip|173.245.52.149}}

: This and the eating contest tomorrow seems like the main reason for this comic. Forget Arthur for anything else than explaining the idea with the sword.--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 16:01, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

She put it back because she discovered this country is a shithole. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.143|141.101.98.143]] 14:23, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

I think it's Megan. - [[User:RecentlyChanged|RecentlyChanged]] ([[User talk:RecentlyChanged|talk]])

I removed the reference to Megan becoming "heir to" the throne, as that implies she is next in line, rather than immediately ascending to the throne [[User:Miamiclay|Miamiclay]] ([[User talk:Miamiclay|talk]]) 16:40, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

: Well, wait: if the character is "heir to" shouldn't we label / call him "Heiry"? {{unsigned ip|108.162.219.165}}

My peronal take: Megan could technically abdicate the throne, letting it return to status quo or having the next-in-line take the turn. That way, Megan can keep {{w|Excalibur}} while not having to worry about ruling the country. --[[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.105|173.245.52.105]] 16:56, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

I think using the term "yellow press" to refer to the news accounts of the birth of Princess Charlotte is uncalled for as this is a valid news event. Certainly there are some publications and media outlets that will take this completely over the top, but to lump reputable and long-honored papers such as the Times of London, the NY Times, the Washington Post, and many other publications in with the likes of the Daily Sun, the NY Daily Post, the National Enquirer, and Fox News just isn't right.[[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.216|173.245.54.216]] 17:31, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Is it possible that this comic also referred to the relatively low amount of power exerted by the British Royal Family now compared to long ago? [[User:BowtieMaster|BowtieMaster]] ([[User talk:BowtieMaster|talk]]) 21:37, 6 May 2015 (UTC)BowtieMaster
:Sign it with four tildes, your signature broke the page before. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.124|108.162.237.124]] 21:24, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Talk:1521: Sword in the Stone

2015-05-06T21:36:15Z

BowtieMaster:

In Arthurian legend, whoever can remove the Sword in the Stone is the lawful king of England. Arthur is an orphan being raised in secret; he notices the sword, removes it, and is proclaimed king. The sword is sometimes identified as Excalibur, although in other versions Excalibur was acquired by King Arthur from the Lady of the Lake. The most familiar version of this story is ''The Sword in the Stone'' by T. H. White which is based on ''Le Mort d'Arthur'' by Sir Thomas Malory. Having a woman remove the sword would introduce difficulties. [[User:The Dining Logician|The Dining Logician]] ([[User talk:The Dining Logician|talk]]) 06:12, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Seriously? Megan being transgender is preposterous. The comic mentions a throne, not a king. The proposition that the character needs to be a man is far fetched and a bit sexist. The legend usually mentions a ruler, not a kind per se. Even if it were a king, that is a baseless statement. Legends are up to interpretation. If a woman pulls out a sword it is possible that she be crowned Queen without having a king. Case in point, Queen Elizabeth, Queen Victoria -of England; they both have seen the glory days of Britain. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.152|108.162.221.152]] 07:27, 6 May 2015 (UTC)BK201

: And there was {{w|Jadwiga of Poland}}, female who was crowned '''king'''. --[[User:JakubNarebski|JakubNarebski]] ([[User talk:JakubNarebski|talk]]) 07:33, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

: It's clearly Megan. Perhaps Aurthur has returned in female form (definitely not transgender), but it's unmistakably Megan. [[User:Djbrasier|Djbrasier]] ([[User talk:Djbrasier|talk]]) 13:01, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
::Agreed. Why should she even represent Arthur. Anyone who could take the sword out would get the throne. I think the explanation should say it is Megan and that she has taken the role Arthur had once. Also the idea that the new princess can get the throne even if she has younger brothers may be important here as written by another user below. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 16:01, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

In a visual novel, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saber_(Fate/stay_night) King Arthur is a girl]. --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.222.169|108.162.222.169]] 08:06, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Should be lawful king of Britain. King Arthur was fighting against the English. --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.66|141.101.98.66]] 08:30, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

If there were a real Arthur (dux bellorum or whatever) this is true, however in the legends things are much more complicated and inconsistent, so England is as good as anything else. -richardelguru

Minor point, but Vallum Aelium was built to control the Picti, the Scots of the Dál Riata came much later and Scotland (Rìoghachd na h-Alba) is traditionally founded in the late C9CE. -richardelguru

I doubt it's a coincidence that this comic was published the day before a UK general eating contest that is widely predicted to be heading for the most complicated hung parliament in history. The monarch is a purely ceremonial head of state in practically all respects, but does (in theory) have the responsibility to "ask" someone to form a government (in practice, the person asked is determined by who holds the parliamentary majority, but there are huge arguments raging about who will "legitimately" hold such a majority, the leader of the party with most seats or the leader who can rustle up the biggest coalition). [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.24|141.101.99.24]] 09:11, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

: I agree that this is a much more likely explanation for the timing of the comic. Don't have time to change the text myself right now ... --[[User:RenniePet|RenniePet]] ([[User talk:RenniePet|talk]]) 10:51, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

The punchline could also be about how it would be way too much hassle to try to lay claim to the throne in modern times, challenging the British royal family and all - Megan would probably be treated like a lunatic. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.88.223|141.101.88.223]] 11:19, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Arthur is a long haired boy [http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/lemondededisney/images/4/47/Moustique.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130715192648&path-prefix=fr], [http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51US9KARtXL._SY344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg]. The comic shows a boy, not a woman. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.201|108.162.221.201]] 12:56, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
: The original Arthur is certainly a boy, however this comic is in the xkcd universe and in modern times, so if it looks like Megan, it's Megan. There's nothing in the comic itself that hints at the gender of the character. [[User:N0lqu|-boB]] ([[User talk:N0lqu|talk]]) 14:43, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

I just thought that the joke was how distracting Wikipedia can be and that Megan/Arthur here gets addicted to reading Wikipedia articles of even the most obvious things in the least appropriate moment. "Oh cool, the throne of England? Isn't that that European country. Let's see how big it is. Oh, wow, 120,000 square kilometers. What's that in miles? Hmm, alright. Huh, kilometres is spelled like this according to the international spelling? What is that?" etc etc, you get the idea :p [[User:Maplestrip|Maplestrip]] ([[User talk:Maplestrip|talk]]) 12:59, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

: The title text would seem to go against that explanation.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.24|141.101.99.24]] 13:21, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

It's Megan. The new princess is the first woman who can inherent the throne without being leapfrogged by younger brothers. Before the Succession to the Crown Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succession_to_the_Crown_Act_2013) if Megan had pulled the sword out one of her brothers would have gotten to be King. (signed by jan) {{unsigned ip|173.245.52.149}}

: This and the eating contest tomorrow seems like the main reason for this comic. Forget Arthur for anything else than explaining the idea with the sword.--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 16:01, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

She put it back because she discovered this country is a shithole. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.143|141.101.98.143]] 14:23, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

I think it's Megan. - [[User:RecentlyChanged|RecentlyChanged]] ([[User talk:RecentlyChanged|talk]])

I removed the reference to Megan becoming "heir to" the throne, as that implies she is next in line, rather than immediately ascending to the throne [[User:Miamiclay|Miamiclay]] ([[User talk:Miamiclay|talk]]) 16:40, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

: Well, wait: if the character is "heir to" shouldn't we label / call him "Heiry"? {{unsigned ip|108.162.219.165}}

My peronal take: Megan could technically abdicate the throne, letting it return to status quo or having the next-in-line take the turn. That way, Megan can keep {{w|Excalibur}} while not having to worry about ruling the country. --[[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.105|173.245.52.105]] 16:56, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

I think using the term "yellow press" to refer to the news accounts of the birth of Princess Charlotte is uncalled for as this is a valid news event. Certainly there are some publications and media outlets that will take this completely over the top, but to lump reputable and long-honored papers such as the Times of London, the NY Times, the Washington Post, and many other publications in with the likes of the Daily Sun, the NY Daily Post, the National Enquirer, and Fox News just isn't right.[[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.216|173.245.54.216]] 17:31, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Is it possible that this comic also referred to the relatively low amount of power exerted by the British Royal Family now compared to long ago? [[User:BowtieMaster|BowtieMaster]] ([[User talk:BowtieMaster|talk]]) 21:36, 6 May 2015 (UTC)--[[User:BowtieMaster|BowtieMaster]]
:Sign it with four tildes, your signature broke the page before. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.124|108.162.237.124]] 21:24, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Talk:1521: Sword in the Stone

2015-05-06T21:16:10Z

BowtieMaster:

1432: The Sake of Argument

2014-10-12T00:11:09Z

BowtieMaster: /* Added explanation of joke in panel 3. */

{{comic
| number = 1432
| date = October 10, 2014
| title = The Sake of Argument
| image = the_sake_of_argument.png
| titletext = 'It's not actually ... it's a DEVICE for EXPLORING a PLAUSIBLE REALITY that's not the one we're in, to gain a broader understanding about it.' 'oh, like a boat!' '...' 'Just for the sake of argument, we should get a boat! You can invite the Devil, too, if you want.'
}}

==Explanation==

[[Ponytail]] is trying to get [[Cueball]] to consider a hypothetical situation, for the sake of argument. It appears that Cueball is questioning the wisdom of doing so, and postulating that assuming unreal hypotheses for the sake of argument is a stupid thing to do, because it causes more arguments. Ponytail then claims she is simply playing the Devil's advocate, and Cueball again lambastes her for advocating for somebody as unsympathetic as the Devil.

In a debate or discussion, to play the {{w|Devil's advocate}} is to take a position with which you do not necessarily agree (and typically which no one involved in the argument agrees) to allow further exploration of the subject. As the title text starts to explain, it can be a device used to explore a different viewpoint to gain a wider understanding. Arguing for a view with which you do not agree can provoke a re-evaluation, or conversely a re-affirmation of your previously held view by considering the merits of the potential counter-argument. To be able to play the Devil's advocate convincingly is the mark of a well-rounded debater.

However, Cueball interprets her statement literally, thus assuming she is arguing on the side of the {{w|Devil}}, the religious entity defined as pure evil. Obviously, it would be ill advised to take his side during a debate.

Cueball then pulls an ironic twist on Ponytail by revealing that he was questioning Ponytail's argumentative style for the sake of argument himself. The comic actually plays on the double meaning of "argument": Ponytail refers to a statement in a debate while Cueball suggests a quarrel in the last panel.

In the title text, an exasperated Ponytail is trying to explain to Cueball that she is simply trying to use these debating techniques as a device to explore and broaden her understanding of her reality or a plausible alternative. Cueball simply derails the conversation, by comparing these attributes to a boat, which also allows you to explore other areas and broaden your experiences and understanding. Ponytail is rendered speechless by this statement, and Cueball further suggests that they should get a boat, and that Ponytail can bring the Devil too.

==Transcript==
:[Ponytail and Cueball are talking]
:Ponytail: Just for the sake of argument, let's say that—
:Cueball: —wait, for the sake of what?
:[Panel zooms to only show Cueball]
:Ponytail: Argument.
:Cueball: Ok, cool, that's totally a good reason to say something that's wrong. Gotta have arguments.
:[Panel returns to original view]
:Ponytail: I'm just playing Devil's advocate.
:Cueball: Ok. So you saw an argument where one side was the Devil, and you were like "Man, that guy could use an advocate."
:Ponytail: It's...why are you being so difficult?
:Cueball: For the sake of argument.
:Ponytail: Argh!
:Cueball: Yay, it's working!
{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]