explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

Talk:2287: Pathogen Resistance

2022-06-17T21:48:44Z

Davidgro:

Note that the title text says "not not" -- meaning we're both trapped in here together [[User:John.Adriaan|John.Adriaan]] ([[User talk:John.Adriaan|talk]]) 04:38, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:Randall fixed that. [[User:Jacky720|That's right, Jacky720 just signed this]] ([[User talk:Jacky720|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jacky720|contribs]]) 16:38, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Do bacteriophages "afflict" humanity? To my knowledge, they only infect bacteria and are even considered a possible future alternative to antibiotics by some. What is up with them being represented here? 09:12, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
: Yeah, bacteriophage is just wrong here, it's a generic virus. This type of virus is depicted on the bacteriophage wikipedia page but viruses that affect humans can have that shape also. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.51.94|172.68.51.94]]
: There are no known human viruses of that shape (source: I'm a biologist), so this seems like more of a mistake on Randall's side (albeit an odd one for him to make, so perhaps somehow deliberate?). [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.155|162.158.91.155]] 08:55, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
::But... if it affects bacteria and humen have many bacteria (and many/most of them useful) in them, shouldn't it affect the human then as well? indirectly? Source: I have very vague knowledge :D --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 09:06, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
::It may be deliberate in the sense that almost everyone will go "Oh, that's a virus!" when they see this shape, contrary to the other 2 which look more like big molecules or bacteria.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.111.7|162.158.111.7]] 09:20, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:: The bacteriophage point is now very nicely addressed in the explanation. Good job to all who contributed to that part! [[Special:Contributions/162.158.93.105|162.158.93.105]] 21:04, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Don’t worry, pathogens! All is not lost. There will always be some humans whose brains don’t work very well, who will buy into ideas like “vaccines cause autism”, or “faith healing”, or “natural remedies”, or “Trump is always right”. You’ll still have hosts. [[User:Tualha|Tualha]] ([[User talk:Tualha|talk]]) 07:27, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:That's right [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.158|108.162.216.158]] 13:13, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
::Not really "always". Those might eventually go extinct. Assuming this kind of stupidity is hereditary ... -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 22:17, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:::Arthur C. Clarke said decades ago "It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value." Likewise the hope the COVID-19 pandemic will eliminate people based on their unintelligent behavior is not proven. Based on limited data I am guessing the behavior of people around us affect our survival more then our own behavior.[[User:Godzilla|Godzilla]] ([[User talk:Godzilla|talk]]) 13:24, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
::::I'm not speaking about stupid people in general, but specifically about antivaxers. THOSE might be completely eradicated by some epidemic. Maybe not this one - definitely not before we find some vaccine for it (although, you know, there ARE some reports about TB vaccine having some effect) - but eventually ... hmmm ... actually, that would be quite effective pattern. Imagine some new patogen related to some we already vaccinate against but much more contagious. All people not vaccinated could be dead before we realize what they have in common and what allows the other to survive it. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 00:22, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

Bacteriophages only infect bacteria and some kinds of Archaea, not humans, so the explanation is slightly wrong. They are probably the prettiest and easiest to recognise viral shape though, which is why they are so commonly used in cartoons and illustrations.[[User:Phil|Phil]] ([[User talk:Phil|talk]]) 08:29, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:I am just as much a hobby-virologist as anybody else suddenly is, but I have no clue what you are talking about. I don't even know which of the 3 shapes you mean. So please edit the explanation yourself if you see, that it is wrong. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 08:37, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:: The narrator-virus in the middle of the three, that looks somewhat like a rotation of a mosquito, with a D20 on top. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacteriophage#/media/File:PhageExterior.svg Wikipedia diagram] [[Special:Contributions/141.101.69.13|141.101.69.13]] 12:17, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:::D20 systems have a lot to answer for. The original D6 Star Wars worked well enough, and now I learn the D20 version spread viruses! [[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.210|162.158.34.210]] 11:23, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

"They bought lots of pasta." More like they bought lots of toilet paper! Humans, when we think rationally, can make great things happen. Humans, when we panic, can make incredibly foolish decisions. [[User:Nutster|Nutster]] ([[User talk:Nutster|talk]]) 11:32, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:It's both. At least in the supermarkets close to my place (western Germany), pasta, toilet paper, rice, milk, flour, yeast are all common to be out of stock or almost out of stock and usually their shelfes have by now signs that they will only sell a certain amount of them to each customer. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 12:14, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
::Here in Italy toilet paper was never missing, whereas in some supermarket there was a pasta shortage (except for ''pennette lisce'', obviously, which nobody likes so they stayed on the shelves).
::--[[Special:Contributions/188.114.102.160|188.114.102.160]] 03:03, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

:Any chance this reveals Randall as a secret Pastafarian? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.46|162.158.34.46]] 13:23, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

Why does one of the voices say, "I hate lungs"? --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.62|108.162.216.62]] 13:08, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:Isn't it just a reference to Grouchy Smurf ? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.229.210|108.162.229.210]] 08:27, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
:To emphasize that they really do want to destroy those lungs. All good here. 13:13, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
::It actually doesn't make sense. Pathogens LOVE lungs - it's a great place for them to have party in. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 22:17, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:::I always imagined it was just a reiteration of a past conversation, to whit something like: "Not another lung? We never get to see anything else. Really, George, I don't know why you keep on booking the same old package deal ''every'' time we go abroad. You know, Janice's family always try something different. Instead of just flying in and sitting on the lung all the time they do exciting things like camping out on an interesting door handle then hitching rides on fingers into noses, or even dining out and taking a chance on an unwashed cup to introduce them to an interesting new throat..." [[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.210|162.158.34.210]] 11:23, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

This comic is a positive message giving good advice to people on how to beat the current COVID-19 spread. But the numbers clearly show it is not working (https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-52066105/coronavirus-us-death-rates-v-china-italy-and-south-Korea, and many other locations on the internet.) Continuing to believe this pandemic can be beat with only lock-downs, hand washing and telling people to not do things they do naturally without thinking, is the public health equivalent of engineering design with friction-less surfaces and mass-less pullies. We need solutions that understand human nature and tell people to do things they actually will do, not keep saying the same things over and over again despite experience screaming at us that people are not doing it. The 6 places that have controlled the outbreak (China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, South Korea and Japan) have used different methods of testing, tracing, isolating, restricting travel, etc., but the one thing they have in common is a large portion of the population is wearing masks in public. The 5 places with the largest uncontrolled outbreaks (USA (especially NYC) Italy, Spain, Germany and France) are all using the same lock down strategy and all have public health officials discouraging / preventing people from wearing masks in public. This should not be hard to figure out. And saying the limited supply of masks need to go to certain people, not working to increase the number of masks, is what failure looks like. {{unsigned|Godzilla}}
:You know that it's possible to make a mask from piece of fabric at home? It may not be as good as professional mask but would still provide some sort of protection. Also, the amount of masks will go up if China starts making them ... -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 22:17, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:Masks like the 1.2 million defective ones that a Chinese manufacturer sold to the Dutch government for the care workers? Or the simpler ones that Dutch experts say aren't effective because they're bound to be used incorrectly and thus give a false sense of security? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.54.219|172.69.54.219]] 18:09, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:In a situation like the current one it is wise even for expert epidemiologists, virologists and medical practitioners to be very careful in their assumptions, analyses and conclusions. For anyone with little or no expertise in those fields, that goes doubly so. Note, for instance, that the regions you name as having controlled the outbreak also have very different social customs from those you name as uncontrolled. To an Italian, the everyday way Asians (excuse the generalizations) interact with each other is pretty much equivalent to "social distancing". When you regularly shake hands or hug (and then touch your nose or eyes, which people do constantly and subconsciously), the mask is not protective. In other words, there are many factors beyond simply wearing masks that can explain the current differences in virus spread, if such differences are even real (the current numbers are heavily skewed by test availability and criteria for who gets tested). More generally, we currently simply do not have enough information to confidently answer all the questions about this disease and how we should best combat it. Thus, I would recommend using expressions such as "this should not be hard to figure out" sparingly, especially given the knowledge that many very smart and highly trained people are working on "figuring it out"... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.93.105|162.158.93.105]] 21:21, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
::I agree it's not so trivial to figure out, but also that we should both start wearing masks and stop with the shaking hands - both is easy enough to try. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 22:17, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:::"In a situation like the current one it is wise even for expert epidemiologists, virologists and medical practitioners to be very careful in their assumptions, analyses and conclusions. For anyone with little or no expertise in those fields, that goes doubly so. Note, for instance, that the regions you name as having controlled the outbreak also have very different social customs from those you name as uncontrolled. To an Italian, the everyday way Asians (excuse the generalizations) interact with each other is pretty much equivalent to "social distancing"."
These statements are true. It is also true the the 6 places that have controlled the outbreak the best have very different social customs from each other. Likewise with the 5 places where the outbreak is spreading the most; Germans generally do not behave in public like Italians, but both cultures are experiencing similar 2-3 day double rates.
"...given the knowledge that many very smart and highly trained people are working on "figuring it out"..." We all know countless examples in history of "very smart and highly trained people" being wrong for very long periods of time (no-such-things-as-germs, the-earth-is-the-center-of-the-universe, etc.) And the differences in the spread of this outbreak in different countries is not trivial; it is spreading 10s or 100s of time faster in some places then others. These differences are not being explained adequately by the "very smart and highly trained people". At some point we need to realize what we are being told does not match what we are seeing. When we do we will start solving the problem. [[User:Godzilla|Godzilla]] ([[User talk:Godzilla|talk]]) 13:24, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
:To summarize your argument: Because even experts *can* be wrong (true!) we should always critically evaluate any information we receive (fully agree!). If in doing so we recognize an apparently obvious and seemingly reasonable pattern, we should assume our conclusions are true (uh-oh) and the experts must be wrong (uuuh) and we should announce our truth on the internet while deriding others' efforts to handle the crisis (ouf). You may be right about the masks, you may not be right. Time and more research will surely tell. Either way, however, I hope you can appreciate why someone might take issue with your approach to the problem. Cheers! [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.101|162.158.91.101]] 12:43, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

(Hey, people have been putting replies to someone else's unsigned comment under my joke. Lemme just move mine down here. -Jacky720)
{|class="wikitable"
|
Pathogens: ''infect humans through day-to-day contact'' 
Humans: ''stop day-to-day contact'' 
Humans: Checkmate.
|}
[[User:Jacky720|That's right, Jacky720 just signed this]] ([[User talk:Jacky720|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jacky720|contribs]]) 16:38, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

:Coccus bacteria: It's not over, right? They can't sustain this. They must be bored and tired. 
:Coccus bacteria: Will they give up? 
:
:2 Years Later... 
:Yes, we absolutely gave up. Some parts of the population did so instantly, and are even doing things to assist the disease. It is never going to end now.
:--[[User:Davidgro|davidgro]] ([[User talk:Davidgro|talk]]) 21:44, 17 June 2022 (UTC) 

OK the news is saying the CDC is reconsidering their position on the public wearing masks. Note it is not you wearing a mask that protects you, but everyone else wearing one, including the people with the virus who do not show symptoms. The mask catches many of the droplets infected people exhale, sneeze or cough out. This reduces the amount of virus containing droplets in the air for you to breath in, reduces the virus on surfaces you touch and then bring to your face with your hand, etc.

Here is the one study on home made masks, finding them to be roughly 1/3 as effective as surgical masks: [https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/0921A05A69A9419C862FA2F35F819D55/S1935789313000438a.pdf/testing_the_efficacy_of_homemade_masks_would_they_protect_in_an_influenza_pandemic.pdf Testing the Efficacy of Homemade Masks]

Here is one of a few studies showing the public wearing masks is effective against the spread of the flu, colds, etc:
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6993921/pdf/CD006207.pdf Physical interventions to interrupt or reduce the spread of respiratory viruses]

Here is one (of many) source for making a mask: [https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2020/4/1/21203241/coronavirus-diy-face-mask-homemade-tutorials Everything you need to know about making your own face mask]

[[User:Godzilla|Godzilla]] ([[User talk:Godzilla|talk]]) 23:06, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

The text on xkcd.com just below the logo has been changed to read "Note: For technical reasons Wednesday's comic will be posted Thursday instead. Apologies for the delay!" Not sure if that's worth mentioning anywhere here, or on tomorrow's explanation once the Thursday comic goes up. [[User:Ijpete98|Ijpete98]] ([[User talk:Ijpete98|talk]]) 03:25, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
:We shouldn't rule out some type of April Fool's Day joke! [[User:Ianrbibtitlht|Ianrbibtitlht]] ([[User talk:Ianrbibtitlht|talk]]) 04:55, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
:: As far as I'm concerned, the question is whether he has something with elaborate Javascript that he's still working on lined up for slightly belated April Fool's, or is the delay itself the joke, in a way that might make more sense once we do see it? Time will tell. -- [[User:KarMann|KarMann]] ([[User talk:KarMann|talk]]) 11:10, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
:::He ended up postponing the April Fool's joke [[Garden]] for three days because it was too complex. SO sounds like it is this. Was wondering if he would do one after all these corona comics. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:15, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

Didn't rabies discover the solution to this? It affects the brain and causes changes in behavior that help it spread. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 16:29, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

I really wish I had ever been as optimistic about it as Randall here. Even more, I wish I had been wrong not to be.
--[[User:Davidgro|davidgro]] ([[User talk:Davidgro|talk]]) 21:48, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

Talk:2287: Pathogen Resistance

2022-06-17T21:44:19Z

Davidgro:

Talk:2249: I Love the 20s

2022-05-17T20:24:32Z

Davidgro: Update on how the 20s are going.

in gif diehard is a Christmas movie. There is no right or wrong answer.
But is White Hat right or wrong? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.197|162.158.91.197]] 19:00, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
:Both. It's the only way to settle this. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.63|173.245.54.63]] 19:13, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
::I think that he is right, but it’s like asking if diehard is a Christmas movie. There is no right or wrong answer.
:::Indeed, famed D.J. and space journalist [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZVOSZqth70 Scott Manley says it's a new decade in C but not in FORTRAN]. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.189.241|172.68.189.241]] 19:37, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
::::You mean it's already 21th century for FORTRAN? -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 23:33, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
::::But what decade is it in the {{w|Delisle scale}}? [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.250|141.101.98.250]] 20:35, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
I'm fairly certain Ponytail contradicts herself in panel 5. Arguing that decades are not cardinally numbered is arguing that the decade starts in 2021 (ordinal numbering.) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.34|162.158.126.34]] 21:20, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
:She doesn't: you're assuming there are only two options, but that's not the case. Decades (in the common "20s, 30s, 40s" form) are not technically numbered at all: they're named, it's just that those names are based on numbers.
:It's still a sequence, like names or dictionary entries being grouped into "As, Bs, Cs" and so on, though. (Is there a specific name for this type of sequence? If so, I don't know it.) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.107.144|141.101.107.144]] 23:03, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
::She (more likely Randall's slip of the pen) is still wrong: what she means is that they aren't ''ordinally'' numbered, which is the reason the other guy is wrong. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.179|162.158.158.179]] 08:23, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
Having had this conversation on WhatsApp, I have settled on an ingenious solution that works for me (on being told that "0" had not been invented in the year between -1 and +1") and explains why decades start with "10, 20...": As usually nowadays, the first decade was the Betaversion and so only ran from 1-9... {{unsigned ip|188.114.103.5|07:29, 2 January 2020 (UTC)}}
:Nobody really recognised the possibility of having/not having 0AD until c.525AD, anyway. (Sitting betwixt the nominal start of what became in our zero in 5thC and its eventual formalising in 7thC, over in India/etc.) If you ask me (and you aren't doing, I know!) I think they probably were envisaging an early version of 1s' Compliment, but knew it would be silly to have two separate numbers for the year ±0 and so fudged it entirely the other way. ;) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.9|162.158.158.9]] 11:37, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

Every year is a new decade. Just some of them overlap. The 203rd decade was from 2021 to 2030, while the '20s will run from 1920 to 1929. Both are legitimate decades. So id 1994-2003; it just doesn't have a convenient name to refer to it by. Heck, you don't even need a new year. 1981-12-03 to 1991-12-02 is the first decade of my life :) So if you want to celebrate the start of a new decade, you should celebrate ''every single day''. [[User:Angel|Angel]] ([[User talk:Angel|talk]]) 10:48, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
:By that logic, the 203rd decade started 203 planck lengths (or other smaller time units) after the big bang. Or was it 202 planck lenghts after? However I agree, that decades start and end all the time. The question is just, what day does the decade "the 20s" start. I'd say it started on January 1, 2020. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 11:23, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

There is an interesting theory that CULTURALLY, a new decade doesn't really start until year 2 or year 3 of said decade. So, what we traditionally envision as "the 80s" actually was typical for ca. 1983-1992, what we think of as "the 90s" actually happened between 1993 and 2002, and so on. It makes a lot of sense if you think of it (and if you listen to music or look at pictures of the time); mullets were still a thing in 1991, just as carrot pants were in 1981 and psychedelic music was in 1971. (It also works for centuries, but with a longer timespan, about 15 years. 1910 or 1911 feels a lot more 19th century than 20th century. In 1815, the Congress of Vienna was held, which ended the European Wars of the 18th century and laid the foundation for the nation states typical of the 19th century, and for a period of relative peace that enabled the Industrial Revolution. And so on.)--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.233|162.158.158.233]] 12:00, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
:I'd argue that this is just randomness. There is no reason, any trends should align to the way the years are set up. Of course noone says "hey, it's first January 2020, let's start a new style of dressing and listen to new music." But neither do they in 2022. However e.g. carrot pants were MOST popular, and on their peak of popularity in the 70s, and psychadelic music in the 60s, even though trends linger and resurface long after all the time. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 12:54, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
::Well, I'd already planned to use exclusive and entirely 2020s' slang and fashion from yesterday onwards. After a few false starts because nobody knew what I was vocing about, I'm now starting it ween and only going full-barbecue as I get past the prime snick of my voc, in empthy my viewclan viz my deltas and merj my vocstyel, all charged for the dec fronting up! Ten-four, me hearties? [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.40|141.101.98.40]] 16:20, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
: Except the 19th century started in 1789; cf. the long nineteenth century. I had never heard of a 1815 start for the nineteenth century before. The nineteenth century is 1789-1914, and the twentieth century started in 1914 and ended in 1991, with the fall of the Soviet Union. Looking at just American history, the nineteenth century obviously starts in 1776 and ends at the start or end of the Civil War, 1860ish. It's all arbitrary lines.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 02:35, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
::Do you have any source or examples from actual historians, using a definition of centuries based on events instead of 100-year periods following each other? Eras or Ages might be debatable and dependent on the spirit of a given time, events, rulers, etc. but I have never heard about centuries being defined that way. The 19th Century started either in 1800 or 1801 and lasted until 1899/1900. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 07:07, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
::: Cf [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_nineteenth_century The Long Nineteenth Century].--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 09:16, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
:::: Thanks. Interesting to read. I was not aware that this is a thing. However the wikipedia article explicitely calls "the long nineteenth century" a period, never a century (There is no sentence such as "the long nineteenth century is a century that [...]"). So I'd still say the 19th century started in 1800/1801, while the "long 19th century" started in 1750/1789. The Wikipedia article on {{w| century}} seems also to take centurys as literal 100 year periods: "A century is a period of 100 years. Centuries are numbered ordinally in English and many other languages."--[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 09:50, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

In the decades under discussion, VH1 and MTV were competing channels, not parent company - child company. (And MTV came first.) It's much more relevant to the explanation that VH1 was a music channel on cable TV than to explain who owns what now, three decades later. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.63.159|172.69.63.159]] 15:59, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

I find it surprising that Randall didn't reference ISO-8601 by way of Wikipedia, such as [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_zero#ISO_8601 in the Year Zero article], to make the argument that the first 10 years ran from 0-9 as "the standard". Though I suppose it is more entertaining/broadly targeted to reference pop. culture sources when labeling pop. culture trends. [[User:SensorSmith|SensorSmith]] ([[User talk:SensorSmith|talk]]) 16:12, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

Well I might be stepping into a minefield by saying this, but obviously both CNN and FOX had dedicated articles reporting this issue and, as expected, have slightly different stances on the answer. I wonder if Randall is aware of this.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/21/us/when-does-the-decade-end-begin-trnd/index.html
https://www.foxnews.com/us/does-2020-start-a-new-decade-or-not-everyone-has-an-opinion

I really get a feeling that there's an extra joke or nod somewhere in the title text that's not covered - anyone spent a little more time on that yet? or maybe have a little more? Despite the feeling, nothing is occurring to me :-( [[User:Brettpeirce|Brettpeirce]] ([[User talk:Brettpeirce|talk]]) 14:31, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

== Rewrite ==

I did a significant rewrite which captures most of what had been said, but tidies up and clarifies some points. I also removed some information that I felt wasn't relevant (eg. the trivia about Jesus' birth - while true and interesting, it isn't actually relevant to the comic or the explanation) - feel free to add anything back that you think should still be included for completeness.

Can I just say, though, that I am not a fan of this rambling style of recapping the comic blow-by-blow while explaining it? It seems to be a common style here but it makes the explanation ''significantly'' more difficult to follow. Here is an example of what I mean:

<blockquote>"At this point Megan stops their heated argument claiming she can resolve this. She then states that MC Hammer's song "U Can't Touch This", released in 1990, was featured in a 1990s-themed television show (I Love the '90s) instead of its 1980s-themed counterpart. Ponytail then claims that this settles the discussion. And White Hat throws in the towel stating that he accepts VH1's authority and lets Ponytail win."</blockquote>

Recapitulating the comic can sometimes be useful to give context to the explanation, but it gets difficult to follow when the text starts jumping back-and-forth between explaining things and simply stating things that are happening in the comic. In my rewrite, I have attempted to give a short recap at the very start of the explanation, to provide context; then, I have added explanations of the points raised by the comic. I still don't think it's the best way to go about it, but I think it's better. [[User:Hawthorn|Hawthorn]] ([[User talk:Hawthorn|talk]]) 14:20, 3 January 2020 (UTC)
: +1 - I really like your rewrite :) --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 14:25, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

I wonder that seemingly nobody noticed that Megan is doing the characteristic part of the song here: "Stop! Hammertime!" I'm not sure how to inlcude that into the explanation, though... [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 09:16, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
:Added :) [[User:Hawthorn|Hawthorn]] ([[User talk:Hawthorn|talk]]) 11:02, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
:: Cool, thanks :) [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 13:43, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

White Hat is engaging in '''hypercorrection''', one of the worst crimes of the pseudo-intellectual. They learn something but don't understand it, and then overcompensate by applying it too broadly. Grammar is one of their biggest failings. For example, you do ''not'' add -ly to every adjective that's simply placed near a verb. You feel bad, not badly. And while one does not end a clause with a preposition, "prepositions" like "in" and "with" are often not prepositions at all, but particles that serve a utility role and are valid at the end of a sentence. — [[User:Kazvorpal|Kazvorpal]] ([[User talk:Kazvorpal|talk]]) 16:51, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
:I have no idea what your comment invokes inside me. I feel badly. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 07:42, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

2 years later future context update: Nobody loves the 20s. And culturally (in the US) they started around 2020-03-20 when everything first locked down. [[User:Davidgro|davidgro]] ([[User talk:Davidgro|talk]]) 20:24, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

Talk:2238: Flu Shot

2021-04-15T18:14:14Z

Davidgro:

I don't know why, but the buttons above the comic are all outta wack on my phone. I don't know if they look bad on a desktop, and I don't know how to fix it, so if someone could figure that out, could they tell me so I can fix it in the future?--[[User:TaperingBirch|EightofspadeS]] ([[User talk:TaperingBirch|talk]]) 02:30, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
:ditto[[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.24|108.162.219.24]] 17:53, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
::The buttons have always displayed poorly on mobile for me: The text is cut off at the top of the button (at default text size, default zoom) & the buttons don't display all on one line. Looks that way across most, if not all, mobile devices I've used.
::[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 22:09, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
:::The buttons have only ever looked odd with this one comic for me, though. That must be a pain to have the buttons like that all of the time. --[[User:TaperingBirch|EightofspadeS]] ([[User talk:TaperingBirch|talk]]) 05:43, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
Is it really necessary to include mention of the "untreated/unfiltered probiotic" water fad? It doesn't really say anything about the content in the comic. [[User:Ianrbibtitlht|Ianrbibtitlht]] ([[User talk:Ianrbibtitlht|talk]]) 17:50, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
: I thought it might be relevant to mention why Megan might want to leave her water unboiled. --[[User:NotaBene|NotaBene]] ([[User talk:NotaBene|talk]]) 18:15, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
:: Well I thought it was because she thought she was immune from any contaminants, not that she thought it was healthier for her! lol [[User:Ianrbibtitlht|Ianrbibtitlht]] ([[User talk:Ianrbibtitlht|talk]]) 18:35, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
:::Ironically (relative to this comic, anyway) people who drink "raw" unpurified water are probably much more likely to _avoid_ vaccination. I do find the topic relevant enough to be worth mentioning, though.
:::[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 21:50, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
'Bitten by bats'.. From a future perspective, turns out the real problem is biting bats, or perhaps biting things that have bitten bats. [[User:Davidgro|davidgro]] ([[User talk:Davidgro|talk]]) 18:12, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Talk:2238: Flu Shot

2021-04-15T18:12:58Z

Davidgro:

I don't know why, but the buttons above the comic are all outta wack on my phone. I don't know if they look bad on a desktop, and I don't know how to fix it, so if someone could figure that out, could they tell me so I can fix it in the future?--[[User:TaperingBirch|EightofspadeS]] ([[User talk:TaperingBirch|talk]]) 02:30, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
:ditto[[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.24|108.162.219.24]] 17:53, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
::The buttons have always displayed poorly on mobile for me: The text is cut off at the top of the button (at default text size, default zoom) & the buttons don't display all on one line. Looks that way across most, if not all, mobile devices I've used.
::[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 22:09, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
:::The buttons have only ever looked odd with this one comic for me, though. That must be a pain to have the buttons like that all of the time. --[[User:TaperingBirch|EightofspadeS]] ([[User talk:TaperingBirch|talk]]) 05:43, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
Is it really necessary to include mention of the "untreated/unfiltered probiotic" water fad? It doesn't really say anything about the content in the comic. [[User:Ianrbibtitlht|Ianrbibtitlht]] ([[User talk:Ianrbibtitlht|talk]]) 17:50, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
: I thought it might be relevant to mention why Megan might want to leave her water unboiled. --[[User:NotaBene|NotaBene]] ([[User talk:NotaBene|talk]]) 18:15, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
:: Well I thought it was because she thought she was immune from any contaminants, not that she thought it was healthier for her! lol [[User:Ianrbibtitlht|Ianrbibtitlht]] ([[User talk:Ianrbibtitlht|talk]]) 18:35, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
:::Ironically (relative to this comic, anyway) people who drink "raw" unpurified water are probably much more likely to _avoid_ vaccination. I do find the topic relevant enough to be worth mentioning, though.
:::[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 21:50, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
'Bitten by bats'.. From a future prospective, turns out the real problem is biting bats, or perhaps biting things that have bitten bats. [[User:Davidgro|davidgro]] ([[User talk:Davidgro|talk]]) 18:12, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Talk:2224: Software Updates

2021-04-08T22:54:13Z

Davidgro:

Not related to this comic in particular, but the advertisements on this site have become a little (well, actually well past that) too obtrusive for use on a computer that won't let you install an ad blocker (like, uh, a managed Chromebook). Oh, imagine trying to use a computer that won't let you install something as necessary in 2019 as an ad blocker in 2019. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.59.42|172.68.59.42]] 01:11, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
:Yup. I've added the ongoing discussion to the bottom of this talk page. --[[User:NeatNit|NeatNit]] ([[User talk:NeatNit|talk]]) 12:03, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

Really? For me it's only a tiny rectangular ad in the bottom left when I disable my blocker. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.34.20|172.69.34.20]] 01:53, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
:I saw bunches of ads artificially injected in here between these comments last week, this week I see literally none, so I think whoever added them - so horribly intrusively that it sparked an ongoing discussion that transcended the separate comics - saw the complaints and turned them back off. [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]])

I bet that this is in reference to the removal of close other tabs from Chrome. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.37|173.245.54.37]] 03:23, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

: I doubt it. The feature is easily duplicated by simply tearing out the tab you want to keep and then closing the other window. I doubt that would be a dealbreaker. Plus, well, Chrome doesn't play nice with trying to stay on the older version. [[User:Trlkly|Trlkly]] ([[User talk:Trlkly|talk]]) 03:29, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
:: Yeah, there are far too many other examples of unwelcome changes to far too many pieces of software to think this is referring to this in particular.--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.166|162.158.75.166]] 10:35, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
::: However, there are quite lot of very unwelcomed changes specifically in major browsers ... Mozilla's decision to stop supporting original format of their extensions comes into mind ... -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 04:43, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

It's not so clear to me that SaaS requires the software to run in the Cloud. Adobe's Creative Cloud is argued to be Software as a Service, but the programs actually run on the local system. [[User:Trlkly|Trlkly]] ([[User talk:Trlkly|talk]]) 03:29, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

The definition in the Wikipedia article on SaaS includes that requirement. I would describe Adobe Creative Cloud more like the way its Wikipedia article does, as providing a combination of software applications delivered on a subscription model, mobile apps, and cloud services, with only the latter being the SaaS part. [[User:Bugstomper|Bugstomper]] ([[User talk:Bugstomper|talk]]) 03:51, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
:Yes, Photoshop is installed on my machine, and I can run it when I'm not connected to the Internet. Definitely not SaaS. SaaS doesn't have to be from the cloud, but it must be something served when you use it. — [[User:Kazvorpal|Kazvorpal]] ([[User talk:Kazvorpal|talk]]) 06:20, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

I think the explanation is probably misinterpreting the intent of the title text. Given the point of the main comic, rather than saying some have very fast ping times, I think it's saying they may have very slow ping time, on the order of months or years, between times when they decide to download an updated version. The explanation written here definitely feels off, as lots of software running doesn't involve even a local office server, but runs entirely on the computer in front of the user, and again it doesn't relate to the main comic.--[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.46|108.162.216.46]] 06:58, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
:I was going to say the same. Cloud software will include some frontend code to display data to the user; often some javascript in a webpage. I think the title text is treating 'regular' software as if the developers and their computers creating updates are the part which runs "in the cloud". In some cases, this might mean actually sending off for disks for an update (a 'ping time' in weeks), and the timeout before disconnection causes an error could be years or longer. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.77.50|141.101.77.50]] 09:22, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
:: The part about a "server in the same office" should just be removed. Software ''on your own computer'' is also running in the cloud - there's no fundamental difference between software running locally or remotely except for the connectivity issues (latency and packet loss etc.) in transferring the data. Your own computer is a "cloud server" with extremely fast (a few milliseconds) ping, whereas accessing a server on another continent may cause latency of a few hundred milliseconds (or more, if packet loss is bad enough) and this is what the "ping times vary a lot" line is referring to. I don't think it's referring to software updates. -- [[User:Pureawes0me|Pureawes0me]] ([[User talk:Pureawes0me|talk]]) 09:45, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
::: Again, that interpretation would be a lot more credible if the primary topic of the main comic wasn't about updating software with very long intervals in between. Making the point you are saying doesn't match at all, and isn't nearly as clever or entertaining of an observation. The very absurdity of claiming waiting weeks or months for a software update is a "ping time" (which is normally something measured in milliseconds) seems to match the typical kind of humor of this comic. Reminds me of that comic a bit ago with the fruit vending machine that required you to wait for a tree to grow.--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.166|162.158.75.166]] 10:35, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
::::It could refer to both. Therefore they vary a lot.

Oh, hey, that looks like my Android version (because Google apparently thinks no one would want to record their own calls). [[Special:Contributions/162.158.142.118|162.158.142.118]] 09:50, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
:Nor do they think people use background utilities like Google Translate or Join that read the clipboard, or automation to manage wifi connections... I am planning to not upgrade to Android 10+ until both my phone and its backup physically break and I have no other option. [[User:Davidgro|davidgro]] ([[User talk:Davidgro|talk]]) 22:54, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

Would just like to mention that the definition of 'software as a service' is actually that you pay for a subscription, that is a regular reoccurring fee. That's not usually the case. 17:28, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
:If you have to be compatible with other users and the file formats (or whatever) change, it could end up being a "regular recurring" fee for all practical purposes, paid at whatever interval your friends or colleagues allow before they expect you to have upgraded. [[User:Angel|Angel]] ([[User talk:Angel|talk]]) 18:14, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
::That would be an 'irregular' reoccurring fee, as opposed to a 'regular' one. A 'regular' one is one that's periodic and the period is the same each time. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.214.82|162.158.214.82]] 18:39, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

I am confused about the location of the label '''Newest version'''. Wouldn't the newest version be located at the highest line in the diagram? Unless the lines above "Newest version" are future versions? [[User:Rtanenbaum|Rtanenbaum]] ([[User talk:Rtanenbaum|talk]]) 18:02, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
:The arrow is pointing to the upper edge of the shaded region. The upper edge of that region represents the "newest version" at any moment in time, while the lower edge of the shaded region represents the oldest supported version. [[User:Angel|Angel]] ([[User talk:Angel|talk]]) 18:14, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
::Thanks, now it makes sense. It would be a little clearer if the arrow for Newest version was pointing to the upper horizontal line and the arrow for Oldest version was pointing to the lower horizontal line of the shaded area, instead of pointing to the vertical lines. To my interpretation, vertical lines mark points in time and horizontal lines mark versions. What do you think? [[User:Rtanenbaum|Rtanenbaum]] ([[User talk:Rtanenbaum|talk]]) 18:32, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
:::I think it is only because you saw it the wrong way to begin with. The arrow points to the two darker gray lines, surrounding the light gray area. The lines represents the newest version number existing and the oldest version number supported. It does not matter which part of the line that the arrows point to, as it is the entire line that is representing what the labels say. It is not where the arrow point to the lines that is important. As the label is for the entire line. This is unlike the two points marked with dots on the black line, which is a particular point in time. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:05, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Speaking of unsupported... Now that Apple is dumping all support for 32-bit apps, it's worse than just using an unsupported app: those of us with "legacy" 32-bit apps will have to run an unsupported '''Operating System''' that no doubt will not work with all sorts of upcoming apps. I don't even want to think about the number of apps that I will have to pay to upgrade to 64bit. [[User:Cellocgw|Cellocgw]] ([[User talk:Cellocgw|talk]]) 12:23, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

There is one app, that I think we can all agree is a blessing that it has gone away, '''Flash Player'''! Good riddance! [[User:Rtanenbaum|Rtanenbaum]] ([[User talk:Rtanenbaum|talk]]) 14:08, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
:No, we do not all agree. :) Also I won't consider it gone until sites stop using it, and I haven't seen that yet. [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 05:00, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

Funny, this comic so well encapsulates where I just got with iTunes. Except that "break" was intentional, LOL! Idiots split off Books and a few other things into separate apps, because of course people would rather have 10 programs clogging up their computers than just 1. Since I actually use the Books feature, to sync to my iPad, that's a deal breaker, no more updates for me. And "app" doesn't sound like something available for a Windows computer, just mobile devices and strangely Macs because Apple is a collection of weirdo idiots who've lost touch with the real world. LOL! [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 05:00, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

I'm not telling you whether this comment is being written on my Dell Latitude laptop (still running XP) or my Tab 3 (still running Android 4.4.2), but this comic relates to me in so many ways... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.175|162.158.154.175]] 00:07, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

My brother refused for years to update to IOS 7 on his iPad because he didn't like the new aesthetic. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.70.70|172.68.70.70]] 14:25, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

Interesting, I interpret the title text completely differently. I think Randall sees the "ping" from the SW manufacturer's perspective. In a client-installed software, the manufacturer still has the ability to force their updates upon the customers (by means of withdrawing support), but the "ping" (upgrade response from the customers) is heavily delayed. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.92.70|162.158.92.70]] 13:35, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

2048: Curve-Fitting

2018-09-22T00:08:24Z

Davidgro: /* Logarithmic */ Log 1 doesn't make sense. Log 2 is one of the common ones that I am sure was the intended value.

{{comic
| number = 2048
| date = September 19, 2018
| title = Curve-Fitting
| image = curve_fitting.png
| titletext = Cauchy-Lorentz: "Something alarmingly mathematical is happening, and you should probably pause to Google my name and check what field I originally worked in."
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Please edit the explanation below and only mention here why it isn't complete. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

An illustration of several plots of the same data with {{w|Curve fitting|curves fitted}} to the points, paired with conclusions that you might draw about the person who made them. This data, when plotted on an X/Y graph, looks somewhat random and there is a desire or need to determine some kind of pattern. With some kinds of data the pattern can be visually obvious, and perhaps a straight or diagonal line, represented by a simple mathematical formula, hits or comes very near hitting all the points. In other cases where it's not as intuitively obvious, one begins to look for more sophisticated mathematical formulas that appear to fit the data, in order to be able to extrapolate or interpolate other data that wasn't in the initial sampling.

When modeling such a problem statistically, it is common to search for trends, and fitted curves can help reveal these trends. Much of the work of a data scientist or statistician is knowing which fitting method to use for the data in question. Here we see various hypothetical scientists or statisticians each applying their own interpretations, and the comic mocks each of them for their various personal biases or other assorted excuses. In general, the researcher will specify the form of an equation for the line to be drawn, and an algorithm will produce the actual line.

Nonetheless scientists work much more seriously on the reliability of their assumptions by giving a value for the {{w|Standard deviation|standard deviation}} represented by the Greek letter sigma σ or the Latin letter s as a measure to quantify the amount of variation of the data points against the presented ''best fit''. If the σ-value isn't good enough an interpretation based on a specific fit wouldn't be accepted by the science community.

Since [[Randall]] gives no hint about the nature of the used data set - same in each graph - any fitting presented doesn't make any sense. The graphs could represent a star map, the votes for the latest elected presidents, or your recent invoices on power consumption. This comic just exaggerates various methods on interpreting data, but without the knowledge of the matter in the background nothing makes any sense.

===Linear===
[[File:Anscombe's quartet 3.svg|thumb|200px|Different data sets result in the same regression.]]
<math>f(x) = mx + b</math>

{{w|Linear regression}} is the most basic form of regression; it tries to find the straight line that best approximates the data. As it's the simplest, most widely taught form of regression, and in general derivable function are locally well approximated by a straight line, it's usually the first and most trivial attempt of fit.

The picture to the right shows how totally different data sets can result into the same line. It's obvious that some more basics about the nature of the data must be used to understand if this simple line really does make sense.

The comment below the graph ''"Hey, I did a regression."'' refers to the fact that this is just the easiest way of fitting data into a curve.

===Quadratic===
<math>f(x) = ax^2 + bx + c</math>

{{w|Polynomial regression|Quadratic fit}} (i.e. fitting a parabola through the data) is the lowest grade polynomial that can be used to fit data through a curved line; if the data exhibits clearly "curved" behavior (or if the experimenter feels that its growth should be more than linear), a parabola is often the first stab at fitting the data.

The comment below the graph ''"I wanted a curved line, so I made one with Math."'' suggests that a quadratic regression requires Math while the linear regression doesn't which is obviously not true.

===Logarithmic===
[[File:Logarithm_plots.png|thumb|200px|Common logarithm functions.]]
<math>f(x) = a\log_b(x) + c</math>

A {{w|Logarithm|logarithmic}} curve growths slower on higher values, but still grows without bound to infinity rather than approaching a horizontal asymptote. The small ''b'' in the formula represents the base which is in most cases 2, ''{{w|e (mathematical constant)|e}}'', or 10. If the data presumably does approach a horizontal asymptote then this fit isn't an effective method to explain the nature of the data.

The comment below the graph ''"Look, it's tapering off!"'' builds up the impression that the data diminishes while under this fit it's still growing to infinity, only much slower than a linear regression does.

===Exponential===
[[File:Exponential.svg|thumb|200px|Exponential growth (green) compared to other functions.]]
<math>f(x) = a\cdot b^x + c</math>

An {{w|Exponential growth|exponential curve}}, on the contrary, is typical of a phenomenon whose growth gets rapidly faster and faster - a common case is a process that generates stuff that contributes to the process itself, think bacteria growth or compound interest.

The logarithmic and exponential interpretations could very easily be fudged or engineered by a researcher with an agenda (such as by taking a misleading subset or even outright lying about the regression), which the comic mocks by juxtaposing them side-by-side on the same set of data.

The comment below the graph ''"Look, it's growing uncontrollably!"'' gives an other frivolous statement suggesting something like chaos. Also this even faster growth is well defined and has no asymptote at both axes.

===LOESS===
A {{w|Local regression|LOESS fit}} doesn't use a single formula to fit all the data, but approximates data points locally using different polynomials for each "zone" (weighting differently data points as they get further from it) and patching them together. As it has much more degrees of freedom compared to a single polynomial, it generally "fits better" to any data set, although it is generally impossible to derive any strong, "clean" mathematical correlation from it - it is just a nice smooth line that approximates well the data points, with a good degree of rejection from outliers.

The comment below the graph ''"I'm sophisticated, not like those bumbling polynomial people."'' emphasis this more complicated interpretation but without a simple mathematical description it's not much helpful to find academic descriptions on the underlying matter.

===Linear, No Slope===
<math>f(x) = c</math>

Apparently, the person making this line figured out pretty early on that their data analysis was turning into a scatter plot, and wanted to escape their personal stigma of scatter plots by drawing an obviously false regression line on top of it. Alternatively, they were hoping the data would be flat, and are trying to pretend that there's no real trend to the data by drawing a horizontal trend line.

The comment below the graph ''"I'm making a scatter plot but I don't want to."'' is probably done by a student who isn't happy with it's choice of field of study.

===Logistic===
[[File:Logistic-curve.svg|thumb|200px|A standard logistic function between the values ''0'' and ''1''.]]
The {{w|Logistic regression|logistic regression}} is taken when a variable can take binary results such as "0" and "1" or "old" and "young".

The curve provides a smooth, S-shaped transition curve between two flat intervals (like "0" and "1").

The comment below the graph ''"I need to connect these two lines, but my first idea didn't have enough Math."'' implys the experimenter just wants to find a mathematically-respectable way to link two flat lines.

===Confidence Interval===
Not a type of curve fitting, but a method of depicting the predictive power of a curve.

Providing a confidence interval over the graph shows the uncertainty of the acquired data, thus acknowledging the uncertain results of the experiment, and showing the will not to "cheat" with "easy" regression curves.

The comment below the graph ''"Listen, science is hard. But I'm a serious person doing my best."'' is just an honest statement about this uncertainty.

===Piecewise===
Mapping different curves to different segments of the data. This is a legitimate strategy, but the different segments should be meaningful, such as if they were pulled from different populations.

This kind of fit would arise naturally in a study based on a regression discontinuity design. For instance, if students who score below a certain cutoff must take remedial classes, the line for outcomes of those below the cutoff would reasonably be separate from the one for outcomes above the cutoff; the distance between the end of the two lines could be considered the effect of the treatment, under certain assumptions. This kind of study design is used to investigate causal theories, where mere correlation in observational data is not enough to prove anything. Thus, the associated text would be appropriate; there is a theory, and data that might prove the theory is hard to find.

One notable time this is used is when a researcher studying housing economics is trying to identify housing submarkets. The assumption is that if two proposed markets are truly different, they will be better described using two different regression functions than if one were to be used.

The additional curved lines visible in the graph are the kind of confidence intervals you'd get from a simple OLS regression if the standard assumptions were valid. In the case of two separate regressions, it would be surprising if all those assumptions (that is, i.i.d. Normal residuals around an underlying perfectly-linear function) were in fact valid for each part, especially if the slopes are not equal.

A classical example in physics are the different theories to explain the black body radiation at the end of the 19th century. The {{w|Wien approximation}} was good for small wavelengths while the {{w|Rayleigh–Jeans law}} worked for the larger scales (large wavelength means low frequency and thus low energy.) But there was a gap in the middle which was filled by the {{w|Planck's law}} in 1900.

The comment below the graph ''"I have a theory, and this is the only data I could find."'' is a bit ambiguous because there are many data points ignored. Without an explanation why only a subset of the data is used this isn't a useful interpretation at all.

===Connecting lines===
This is often used to smooth gaps in measurements. A simple example is the weather temperature which is often measured in distinct intervals. When the intervals are high enough it's safe to assume that the temperature didn't change that much between them and connecting the data points by lines doesn't distort the real situation in many cases.

The comment below the graph ''"I clicked 'Smooth Lines' in Excel."'' refers to the well known spreadsheet application from Microsoft. Like other spreadsheet applications it has the feature to visualize data from a table into a graph by many ways. The usage of the ''Smooth Lines'' feature here just sounds more like playing rather than investigating.

===Ad-Hoc Filter===
Drawing a bunch of different lines by hand, keeping in only the data points perceived as "good". Not really useful except for marketing purposes.

The comment below the graph ''"I had an idea for how to clean up the data. What do you think?"'' admits that in fact the data is whitewashed and tightly focused to a result the presenter wants to show.

===House of Cards===
Not a real method, but a common consequence of mis-application of statistical methods: a curve can be generated that fits the data extremely well, but immediately becomes absurd as soon as one glances outside the training data sample range, and your analysis comes crashing down "like a house of cards". This is a type of ''overfitting''. In other words, the model may do quite well for (approximately) {{w|Interpolation|interpolating}} between values in the sample range, but not extend at all well to {{w|Extrapolation|extrapolating}} values outside that range.

''Note:'' Exact polynomial fitting, a fit which gives the unique (n-1)-th degree polynomial through n points, often display this kind of behaviour.

Also a potential reference to the TV show, House of Cards ("WAIT NO, NO, DON'T EXTEND IT!").

The comment below the graph ''"As you can see, this model smoothly fits the- wait no no don't extend it AAAAAA!!"'' refers to a more or less well fitting to the data points but beyond the regression gets out of control.

===Cauchy-Lorentz (title text)===
{{w|Cauchy_distribution|Cauchy-Lorentz}} is a continuous probability distribution which does not have an expected value or a defined variance. This means that the law of large numbers does not hold and that estimating e.g. the sample mean will diverge (be all over the place) the more data points you have. Hence very troublesome (mathematically alarming).

Since so many different models can fit this data set at first glance, Randall may be making a point about how if a data set is sufficiently messy, you can read any trend you want into it, and the trend that is chosen may say more about the researcher than about the data. This is a similar sentiment to [[1725: Linear Regression]], which also pokes fun at dubious trend lines on scatterplots.

==Transcript==
:'''Curve-Fitting Methods'''
:and the messages they send

:[In a single frame twelve scatter plots with unlabeled x- and y-axes are shown. Each plot consists of the same data-set of approximately thirty points located all over the plot but slightly more distributed around the diagonal. Every plot shows in red a different fitting method which is labeled on top in gray.]

:[The first plot shows a line starting at the left bottom above the x-axis rising towards the points to the right.]
:Linear
:"Hey, I did a regression."

:[The second plot shows a curve falling slightly down and then rising up to the right.]
:Quadratic
:"I wanted a curved line, so I made one with Math."

:[At the third plot the curve starts near the left bottom and increases more and more less to the right.]
:Logarithmic
:"Look, it's tapering off!"

:[The fourth plot shows a curve starting near the left bottom and increases more and more steeper towards the right.]
:Exponential
:"Look, it's growing uncontrollably!"

:[The fifth plot uses a fitting to match many points. It starts at the left bottom, increases, then decreases, then rapidly increasing again, and finally reaching a plateau.]
:LOESS
:"I'm sophisticated, not like those bumbling polynomial people."

:[The sixth plot simply shows a line above but parallel to the x-axis.]
:Linear, no slope
:"I'm making a scatter plot but I don't want to."

:[At plot #7 starts at a plateau above the x-axis, then increases, and finally reaches a higher plateau.]
:Logistic
:"I need to connect these two lines, but my first idea didn't have enough Math."

:[Plot #8 shows two red lines embedding most points and the area between is painted as a red shadow.]
:Confidence interval
:"Listen, science is hard. But I'm a serious person doing my best."

:[Plot #9 shows two not connected lines, one at the lower left half, and one higher at the right. Both have smaller curved lines in light red above and below.]
:Piecewise
:"I have a theory, and this is the only data I could find."

:[The plot at the left bottom shows a line connecting all points from left to right, resulting in a curve going many times up and down.]
:Connecting lines
:"I clicked 'Smooth Lines' in Excel."

:[The next to last plot shows a echelon form, connecting a few real and some imaginary points.]
:Ad-Hoc filter
:"I had an idea for how to clean up the data. What do you think?"

:[The last plot shows a wave with increasing peak values. Finally the plot of the wave is continued beyond the x- and y-axis borders.]
:House of Cards
:"As you can see, this model smoothly fits the- ''wait no no don't extend it AAAAAA!!''"

==Trivia==
*This is the comic 2048, or 211. In addition to being the name of a popular app referenced in [[1344: Digits]], this is an extremely round number in binary (100,000,000,0002). [[1000: 1000 Comics]] pointed out that comic 1024 would be a round number, but there were not any comics noting 2048.

*This comic is similar to [[977: Map Projections]] which also uses a scientific method not commonly thought about by the general public to determine specific characteristics of one's personality and approach to science.

*Regressions have been the subject of several previous comics. [[1725: Linear Regression]] was about linear regressions on uncorrelated or poorly correlated data. [[1007: Sustainable]] and [[1204: Detail]] depict linear regressions on data that was actually logistic, leading to bizarre extrapolations. [[605: Extrapolating]] shows a line extrapolating from just two data points.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics with color]]
[[Category:Scatter plots]]
[[Category:Math]]
[[Category:Science]]

Talk:2009: Hertzsprung-Russell Diagram

2018-06-22T23:07:27Z

Davidgro: /* Missing Next and Last buttons? */ new section

How the heck is a lava cake more luminous than a campfire? {{unsigned ip|108.162.219.28}}
:It's Lava '''Lake''', as in a large puddle of lava.[[User:Cgrimes85|Cgrimes85]] ([[User talk:Cgrimes85|talk]]) 15:45, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
:: Now the real question is, Why isn't lava cake included on the diagram?!?! [[User:Veleek|Veleek]] ([[User talk:Veleek|talk]]) 23:54, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
::: It would be to the left and below the astronomer. While it is hotter, the cake is a better insulator than the human, so doesn't dump as mach heat, even though it is hotter. [[User:Nutster|Nutster]] ([[User talk:Nutster|talk]]) 13:15, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
:This is the best misreading that I've seen in a while! [[User:Quantum7|Quantum7]] ([[User talk:Quantum7|talk]]) 07:56, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

As it's a logarithmic scale, is it more correct to say the plot been expanded to 1 on both axes? [[User:Cgrimes85|Cgrimes85]] ([[User talk:Cgrimes85|talk]]) 15:47, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

It seems Randall thinks an astronomer is about as bright as a lightbulb, probably due to the Hertzsprung-Russell diagram itself! [[User:Ianrbibtitlht|Ianrbibtitlht]] ([[User talk:Ianrbibtitlht|talk]]) 15:52, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
:A daily food consumption of average human is about 100W when spread out over 24 hours
::It might actually be about that bright, but in the infrared spectrum. http://elte.prompt.hu/sites/default/files/tananyagok/InfraredAstronomy/ch01s04.html [[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.89|108.162.246.89]] 20:54, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
:But they are no where near as hot!
::You seem to overestimate the attractiveness of most lightbulbs. I've only seen a few that I would consider really hot.
[[Special:Contributions/172.69.198.10|172.69.198.10]] 20:57, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
:::And size; Remember that this type of chart is for comparing total luminosity to surface temperature, & although light bulbs get hot, they're usually nowhere near the surface area of an astronomer.[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 14:25, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

While wattage is used as an informal proxy for bulb brightness, there is not a 1-to-1 relationship between power consumption and light output. Incandescent bulbs in the United States were commonly labeled with both watts consumed and lumens output to aid consumers in choosing efficient bulbs.
:"Were"? When? These days the lamp itself usually only states volts & watts, & you're lucky if even the box states lumens. My personal least-favorite is "60w equivalent" with no color temperature & no luminosity listed.[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 14:25, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

{{w|Ivanpah Solar Power Facility|Ivanpah}} doesn't have a salt tank. Presumably he meant the boiler, and/or was confusing it with {{w|Crescent Dunes Solar Energy Project|Crescent Dunes}}.
[[User:Wwoods|Wwoods]] ([[User talk:Wwoods|talk]]) 17:29, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
:Thank you! That had me scratching my head. I bet he was thinking of Crescent Dunes. Should this be noted in the Explanation?[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 14:25, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

I understand the explanation, but what's the joke?

The title text says "The Hertzsprung-Russell diagram is located in its own lower right corner, unless you're viewing it on an unusually big screen." But it's clearly on the top left corner... Am I missing something? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.106|108.162.219.106]] 18:47, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

:Why would it be at the top left...? The diagram itself is not particularly luminous, so would not be at the top, and its apparent temperature is quite low, so it would not be on the left.

::The joke is that while these type of graphs are typically used for illustrating the output of stars in relation to their age; Randall has extended its range to apply it to planets, boats, whales, & astronomers. Most items in the lower right are neither very luminous (compared to the total luminosity of a star) nor very hot (as compared to a star) & certainly their output on either scale does not bear a reliable correlation to their age. Randall is once again weighing things with the wrong measuring stick, so to speak.[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 14:25, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

Why is a blue whale considered more luminous than a campfire? Blue whales don't generate any light.
:It would if your took it out of the water (to reduce convective losses), but it would emit in the infrared. The 78 kW cited here would equate to 588 million kcal of krill per year. That's in the ballpark of other estimates I found (e.g. 490 million[https://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/columns/straight-dope/article/13041278/straight-dope-does-the-average-american-use-more-energy-than]). I agree that this is one of the more surprising facts to find on this chart. --[[User:Quantum7|Quantum7]] ([[User talk:Quantum7|talk]]) 08:10, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
:: Size counts for a lot of that. By ounce, a campfire would be hotter, but these graphs go by total, not per-ton of mass.[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 14:25, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

In one of the interesting parts of this diagram not that many mundane objects (or at least smaller than earth objects) are much hotter than most stars (surface temperature)... Not mentioned now.--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:33, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
:I'm beginning to think the Explanation should highlight the fact that these graphs go by total output, not output per kilogram or anything relative like that. Body temperature of a blue-whale is almost certainly higher than the average temperature of a cruise ship, but a cruise ship is *much* bigger, thereby almost certainly outputting more heat. That said, I'm pretty sure these charts are only supposed to go by ''surface'' thermal output, which could throw a lot of these listings way off. Anyone know what the ''surface'' temperature of a blue-whale is? I've never seen one shown in infrared.[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 14:25, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

I think the current explanation is still taking some of the graph too literally, thereby missing some of the jokes. After all, Randall creates comics, sometimes using innuendo or subtlety to make a point. I still think some of the items on the graph are plotted using luminosity as a measure of "brightness" in the sense of smartness. No offense intended, but he must have had a reason for including France below the planets and the blue whale above the astronomer. Furthermore, the title text is likely talking about the actual HR diagram not being very "bright" in the same way the astronomer is in the lower-right corner of the graph, except when it is displayed on a jumbotron. If you're an astronomer, you might not like hearing this, but the meaning of the HR diagram is difficult to grasp correctly. To leave out any mention of smartness is likely missing the most significant jokes in the comic. Please feel free to disagree, but remember it's still just a comic! [[User:Ianrbibtitlht|Ianrbibtitlht]] ([[User talk:Ianrbibtitlht|talk]]) 00:37, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

: More specifically to my point, this part of the explanation
:: "the title text notes that the screen displaying the diagram would probably be plotted..."
: is not correct. The title text states the diagram itself would probably be plotted in the lower-right corner, not the screen displaying it - the screen was only related to the second part of the title text! This IS the primary joke in the comic and likely why Randall is making fun of it in the first place. This is also likely the reason for the astronomer to ALSO be plotted in this corner - I doubt that is just a coincidence. Maybe Randall was too subtle for his point to get through to readers! [[User:Ianrbibtitlht|Ianrbibtitlht]] ([[User talk:Ianrbibtitlht|talk]]) 04:37, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

: Just in case I'm also being too subtle, I think Randall is saying that the HR diagram is neat to look at (as in really cool) but also stupid (as in not very bright), putting it in the lower-right corner of itself (cool and dim)! There, I said it! [[User:Ianrbibtitlht|Ianrbibtitlht]] ([[User talk:Ianrbibtitlht|talk]]) 04:45, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

::I believe it is definitely about total luminosity & thermal output, ''not'' "brightness" as a measure of intelligence. France is below the planets because it has much less total surface area & thereby less luminosity than the planet itself. If the graph listed by average luminosity per square inch, France would be higher than Earth. There is no joke about intelligence here, only that total luminosity & total heat output are not reliably linked to the age of non-stellar scale objects.[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 14:25, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

:::I will concede on the question of intelligence related to objects on the diagram, as various comments have clarified each such object. Note that the detail on Venus needs to be fixed per another comment here suggesting it's not an error, and I'm pretty sure Randall meant Europa rather than mistyping Europe, so that should be removed from the explanation too. However, the title text explanation is still wrong - it is not about the display of the diagram but the diagram itself. This needs to be addressed! [[User:Ianrbibtitlht|Ianrbibtitlht]] ([[User talk:Ianrbibtitlht|talk]]) 01:44, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

How come this diagram says an LED bulb is hotter than a lightbulb, and both are hotter than a campfire? That doesn't seem right. [[User:YM Industries|YM Industries]] ([[User talk:YM Industries|talk]]) 01:49, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
:The confusion is coming from the fact that the arrow at the top is pointing toward lower temperatures. I'm not sure if this is intentional, or if it is a mistake, but seems to be confusing a lot of people (including myself until I read the actual numbers)[[User:Probably not Douglas Hofstadter|Probably not Douglas Hofstadter]] ([[User talk:Probably not Douglas Hofstadter|talk]]) 03:09, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
:: I noticed that the arrow was pointing in a confusing direction, but LED bulb is to the left of the campfire. The diagram clearly says it's hotter. I'm very confused by this comic. [[User:YM Industries|YM Industries]] ([[User talk:YM Industries|talk]]) 05:22, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

: The location of the LED and Lightbulb temperatures may be related to the actual light source points of these objects (diode junction and wire filament) rather than the outer shells that we can touch. I don't know enough about their internal temperatures to say for sure, but that might explain their positions. [[User:Ianrbibtitlht|Ianrbibtitlht]] ([[User talk:Ianrbibtitlht|talk]]) 05:05, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

:Worked it out, it's referring to the colour temperature. [[User:YM Industries|YM Industries]] ([[User talk:YM Industries|talk]]) 05:24, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
::Right. The color temperature of an LED bulb can be much higher than a blackbody of the same power and area because it emits in only a small spectral region.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.47|108.162.238.47]] 05:32, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
:::'''''A pun! That's another joke; Should definitely be noted in the transcript.''''' Also, if he ''were'' referring to internal temperatures, not surface temperatures, it would be the only place in this chart he seems to have done so. The other listings are consistent with surface temperatures, not average internal temps.[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 14:25, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure there shouldn't be a table in the transcript? I've moved it, but now the table needs to be filled and the transcript needs some work. [[User:Herobrine|Herobrine]] ([[User talk:Herobrine|talk]]) 03:10, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

Venus' temperature is correct. Randall is using planetary equilibrium temperature <ref>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_equilibrium_temperature</ref> [[User:Astronorn|Astronorn]] ([[User talk:Astronorn|talk]]) 04:56, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

Seriously, can we get a mention that this graph relates to ''total'' output by surface area, not relative output by mass or anything like that? Obviously per square inch, a campfire is much more luminous than a whale, but the whale gives off more radiation in total due to its greater surface area. The distinction seems to be a source of confusion to a lot of people.

The France entry might relate to the fact that our commune here in France (Pessac, 33) now turns off its streetlights between 0100-0500; and there are many communes that do the same or use more sophisticated schemes, like motion sensors or partial extinction, and turning off lighted signage for shops, etc.. [[User:BeeVee|BeeVee]] ([[User talk:BeeVee|talk]]) 14:48, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
:If so, '''that might be another joke''': If the graph went by lumens per area of surface, ''any'' marginally developed country would be shown ''higher'' (with more light output per area) than the Earth as a whole (yes, even countries turning off most of their lights at night), ''because'' '''''oceans'''''. On the other hand, with the graph the way it ''is'' shown, even comparing France to another region of roughly equal area & average reported surface temperature it would be difficult to discern whether its placement on this graph is any higher or lower due to switching the streetlights off at night; Most populous regions of comparable area are probably well within one order of magnitude in terms of light output (citation needed?), so any two comparable regions would be within about one pixel of each other. Listing France next to a comparable region doesn't help, but ''not listing anywhere else'' actually hints at the issue in question (turning off lights)!

== Missing Next and Last buttons? ==

As I type this, an entry for comic 2010 exists, but the Next and Last buttons on 2009 don't exist. I've refreshed a bunch and also confirmed in Incognito and a different browser. So not a cache issue on my end. [[User:Davidgro|davidgro]] ([[User talk:Davidgro|talk]]) 23:07, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

Talk:1964: Spatial Orientation

2018-03-27T01:12:04Z

Davidgro:

Dunno where to put this, but Captcha is giving a deprecation notice and asking to move to reCaptcha... [https://miguelpiedrafita.com/ Miguel Piedrafita] 17:46, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

Someone better make a pocket stonehenge now. [[User:Linker|Linker]] ([[User talk:Linker|talk]]) 17:42, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

: Aren't all those pocket whatsits running on silicon close enough?
: Gene Wirchenko genew@telus.net
: http://www.stonehengewatch.com/ Wonder if Randall saw this before the comic...[[User:Linker|Linker]] ([[User talk:Linker|talk]]) 14:16, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
: http://www.iankitching.me.uk/humour/hippo/henge.html - the pocket Stonehenge made me think of this! If you want the audio, listen to the first track of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usdf8UHL0vU . [[Special:Contributions/172.68.174.52|172.68.174.52]] 16:41, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

I would be remiss if I didn't mention that this comic was published two weeks before the vernal equinox [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.45|162.158.62.45]] 19:20, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

I started to nerd snipe myself as I tried to figure out that latitude/earth tilt thing. I have come to the conclusion that it depends on the time of year. He would be 39 degrees on the equinoxes, 16 degrees on the summer solstice, and 52 degrees on the winter solstice. I assume this is in relation to the solar system, but I know pretty much nothing about astrophysics, and I probably worded it all wrong in the first place.[[Special:Contributions/172.69.70.137|172.69.70.137]] 20:54, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
:I guess it mainly depends on the hour of the day: for example, at 12:00 solar time of the spring equinox day, the tilt would be 16 degrees ; but because of the Earth rotation, 12 hours later, it would be at 52 degrees (or 128 degrees)... [[Special:Contributions/172.68.46.143|172.68.46.143]]

Is there a category for overly thinking things? If not, should we create one? [[User:Herobrine|Herobrine]] ([[User talk:Herobrine|talk]]) 23:21, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
:I don't think there is a category, but there is a word; "nerd-sniping" [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.208|108.162.216.208]] 01:12, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
:Do you think [[1917: How to Make Friends|#1917]] would be relevant for this? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 12:03, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
:Yeah, someone (not me) should make one for it...[[User:Linker|Linker]] ([[User talk:Linker|talk]]) 14:13, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

;A couple of weeks ago
I was doing this to figure out my relative motion to the plane of the galactic (without the latitude with respect to the moon part, and lying in bed so I wouldn't fall over).[[User:Cutech|Cutech]] ([[User talk:Cutech|talk]]) 08:10, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

Perhaps Cueball needs to go live with the Kuuk Thaayorre people of Cape York in Northern Queensland. These folks don't use egocentric directions, but use cardinal dirctions for everything: "There's an ant on your southeast leg"... A good discussion is found at < https://www.edge.org/conversation/how-does-our-language-shape-the-way-we-think >. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.2.64|172.68.2.64]] 12:06, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

Hey, when you outright delete someone's contribution, it would be great if you'd include an explanation of the edit to help support the ego of the person who wrote it =) [[Special:Contributions/172.68.54.148|172.68.54.148]] 12:16, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

The description asserts that Cueball was overthinking his attempt to direct the out of frame person to the theatre, but that really depends on where the theatre is. If the theatre is not on Earth Cueball's reasoning could be considered relatively simplistic. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.43|162.158.154.43]] 15:54, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

Suppose we want to know what the angle is between Cueball and the solar plane on the day of the spring equinox, at the time when it is solar noon at the point on the equator directly south of Cueball. We can call this point on the equator A and call Cueball’s position C. By definition, the plane of the Earth’s orbit around the sun (which we are considering to be the same as the plane of the solar system) passes through the center of the Earth. It also, at this time, passes through point A. Now, there must be some point B that is the point on Earth’s surface that is closest to Cueball while lying on the solar plane. This point is NOT necessarily point A, which is the point on Earth’s surface that is the closest to Cueball while lying on the equatorial plane.

The angle between Cueball and the solar plane should basically equal the number of degrees between Cueball and point B. We can get a rough approximation for this using the Pythagorean theorem. The Pythagorean theorem is NOT valid on the surface of a sphere when dealing with large distances relative to the size of the sphere. That is, just because the shortest arc along the surface of the sphere from point A to point B on the sphere forms a right angle with the path from B to C at B, does NOT mean you can square the great circle distance from A to B and add it to the square of the great circle distance from B to C to get the great circle distance from A to C. Nonetheless, we can use the Pythagorean theorem to get a very rough approximation.

The “line segment” (actually an arc) along Earth’s surface between A and B lies along the solar plane, since A and B are both on the solar plane. Since shortest distances are found using a perpendicular, the arc from B to C is perpendicular to this. So, A, B, and C form a sort of right triangle on the surface of the Earth. The angle between AB and AC is equal to the Earth’s orbital tilt of about 23 degrees. The distance AC is 39 degrees (that is, 39/360 of the Earth’s circumference). Since AC is the hypotenuse, the cosine of 23.4 degrees must equal BC over AC, so BC equals cos(23.4 degrees) times 39. This yields 35.8 degrees, an approximation for the angle between Cueball and the solar plane. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.190|108.162.216.190]] 22:30, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

So, is the angle that Cueball is standing in the comic relative to the orientation of my monitor realistic for the angle that he's standing relative to Earth's orbital plane as described or not? [[User:Davidgro|davidgro]] ([[User talk:Davidgro|talk]]) 01:12, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

Talk:1867: Physics Confession

2017-07-28T23:55:17Z

Davidgro:

F1rst P0st http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/269:_TCMP [[Special:Contributions/172.68.141.190|172.68.141.190]] 07:54, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

Fuckin' ice skates, [https://youtu.be/_-agl0pOQfs?t=1m52s how do they work]? [[User:OldCorps|OldCorps]] ([[User talk:OldCorps|talk]]) 11:26, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

Any relation to #1489? They're both about things physicists don't understand. http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1489:_Fundamental_Forces {{unsigned ip|172.68.132.5}}

Explain physics: It's 'cause Randall's dumb. {{unsigned ip|141.101.104.47}}

;Explanation of skating
A lot of people both here and on Reddit seem to be talking about pressure of the skates reducing the melting point. Pressure of the skates can only reduce the melting point by about 0.5C, so this is clearly not sufficient to produce a layer of liquid below -0.5C. The more correct explanation is that there is an ever-present layer of liquid on the surface of most crystals, including ice - this is the best explanation that exists right now, and explains why ice skating stops being possible below around -30C (and is hard at intermediate temperatures). This is the explanation offered by most modern university courses on thermodynamics or materials science - here is an excerpt from a University of Cambridge materials science course: [https://imgur.com/a/8bZxG Excerpt] [[User:Jaredjeya|Jaredjeya]] ([[User talk:Jaredjeya|talk]]) 13:03, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

: I've just looked at the article linked in the explanation, whoever put it in didn't read the full article because it goes on to mention exactly this explanation. [[User:Jaredjeya|Jaredjeya]] ([[User talk:Jaredjeya|talk]]) 13:07, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
::Good ol' circular reasoning. [[User:OldCorps|OldCorps]] ([[User talk:OldCorps|talk]]) 15:48, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

"...ice skating stops being possible below around -30C". Not true. I've skated at -40C. It's effing stupid, risk of frostbite in minutes, but still works. (Living North of 60 for 4+ decades)
: -40C? Ha! Try -40F! [[User:Davidgro|davidgro]] ([[User talk:Davidgro|talk]]) 23:55, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

1864: City Nicknames

2017-07-19T22:15:37Z

Davidgro: /* Nicknames and Demonyms */ There's no one novel called "A Song of Ice and Fire", that's the whole series.

{{comic
| number = 1864
| date = July 17, 2017
| title = City Nicknames
| image = city_nicknames.png
| titletext = This place has so many demonyms. Northlanders. Fair Folk. Honey Barons. Lake Dwellers. Treasurers. Swamp Watchers. Dream Farmers. Wellfolk. Rockeaters. Forgotten Royals. Remote Clients. Barrow-Clerks. The People of Land and Sky.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|stub}}

Cities often have official or unofficial nicknames. For instance, {{w|St. Louis|St. Louis, Missouri}}, is known as "Gateway to the West" among several other nicknames. The nicknames typically invoke some historical or geographic feature of the city, but can sometime be opaque to those not familiar with the city. [https://www.into-asia.com/bangkok/introduction/fullname.php The full, formal name of Bangkok] includes a long list of superlatives translating as "The city of angels, the great city, the residence of the Emerald Buddha, the impregnable city (of Ayutthaya) of God Indra, the grand capital of the world endowed with nine precious gems, the happy city, abounding in an enormous Royal Palace that resembles the heavenly abode where reigns the reincarnated god, a city given by Indra and built by Vishnukarn."

Despite the skyline being clearly recognizable as St. Louis due to the {{w|Gateway Arch}}, [[Black Hat]] calls it New York City. However, the nickname he gives is neither a common New York nickname (such as "{{w|List of nicknames of New York City|The Big Apple}}") nor a St. Louis nickname. [[Megan]] tries to correct him, but it becomes clear that Black Hat is making up nicknames. Many of his suggestions are puns for real nicknames of other places.

The title text contains made up {{w|demonym}}s in the same pattern. A demonym is a word for the people who live in a particular place. They are typically derived from the name of the place (e.g. "St. Louisan" for people from St. Louis), but some regions have an {{w|Demonym#Informal|informal demonym}} that can be used colloquially by those familiar with the place to refer to its residents.

===Nicknames and Demonyms===

{| class=wikitable
! City nickname in comic
! Reference
! Explanation

|-
| The Hot Tamale
| {{w|Hot Tamales}}
| Possibly a reference to the term [http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=big%20enchilada big enchilada] (something of great importance). In the movie [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_Day_(1996_film) Independence Day], the phrase "Big Tamale" is used in a similar manner as "Big Enchilada" to describe the alien fighter held at Area 51.

|-
| The Winged City
| The Windy City
| Chicago. Possibly also [http://www.airport-technology.com/projects/incheon-international-airport/ Incheon International Airport (ICA/RKSI), South Korea]

|-
| The Gold Trombone
|
| Possibly a reference to the gold standard.

|-
| Castleopolis
| {{w|Cassopolis}}, or possibly Dictionopolis.
| Literally "Castle city." {{w|Polis}} (from the Greek πόλις for city) is commonly used as a suffix for city names, like {{w|Minneapolis}} or {{w|Alexandroupolis}}; {{w|Metropolis}} can either be a type of city, or one of the real or fictional cities bearing the name. Possibly a reference to The Phantom Tollbooth, which has both castles and cities named Dictionopolis and Digitopolis.

|-
| The Kissing Kingdom
| {{w|United Kingdom}}
| This would make a ''Very'' United Kingdom

|-
| Sandland
|
| {{w|Sandland}} is a village in northern Norway, most likely coincidentally.

|-
| The High Place
| {{w|Denver}}
|Denver is known as the Mile High City. Also, in English translations of the Old Testament, the Hebrew term במה (bamah, plural במות bamot) is rendered as "{{w|high place}}," and denotes a place of worship. In modern Jewish synagogues, the "High Place" (bimah) is the elevated platform from which the Torah is read. In Gene Wolfe's ''Free Live Free'', one character claims to come from the "High Place". The others consider this a metaphor, or simply a lie. Eventually this is discovered not to be the case.

|-
| Ol' Ironhook
| {{w|Old Ironsides}}
| Old Ironsides is a nickname for the USS Constitution (docked in Charlestown, MA). Ol' Ironhook may be a conflation of Old Ironsides (also a nickname for English Lord Protector Oliver Cromwell) with Old Hookey (a nickname for Arthur Wellesley, Duke of Wellington, English general and PM) or Old Kinderhook (a nickname for US President Martin Van Buren).
|-
| The Thousand Spires || The City of a Hundred Spires / City of Dreaming Spires|| Prague / Oxford
|-
| The Graveyard of Kings || The Graveyard of Champions / City of Kings || ''Graveyard'': Court 2 at Wimbledon, where former champions are often defeated (the playing environment is very different from Centre Court and Court One, which are larger and where games involving highly-ranked players are preferentially located). The comic was released one day after the 2017 Wimbledon Championships were finished. ''Kings'': Nickname of [[wikipedia:Lima|Lima, Peru]] and [[wikipedia:Palermo|Palermo, Sicily]]. The {{w|Valley of the Kings}} in Egypt is literally a graveyard of kings, namely the Pharaohs.
|-
| Bloomtown || [[wikipedia: Boomtown|Boomtown]] || Generic term for a town undergoing rapid growth. Used in the 2002 TV series of the same name as a nickname for Los Angeles. Might also be referring to [[wikipedia:Bloom County|Bloom County]], a comic by [[wikipedia:Berkeley Breathed|Berkeley Breathed]], or Dublin, as the setting for Ulysses by James Joyce.
|-
| Lantern City USA || {{w|Tree City USA}} || A designation supporting municipalities that showcase urban forestry, in connection with Arbor Day. Lantern city is a fictional, steam-punk serial.
|-
| The City of Many Daughters || {{w|City of Daughters}} || Might be a reference to {{w|City of Daughters}} album by [[wikipedia:Destroyer (band)|Destroyer]].
|-
| Big Mauve || [[wikipedia: Big_Red_(drink)|Big Red Soda]] || Big Red Soda. Big Red is also a chewing gum by Wrigley's. The Cornell teams are known as the [[wikipedia:Cornell Big Red|Big Red]] as is Western Kentucky's mascot [[wikipedia:Big Red (Western Kentucky University)|Big Red]]. The Dartmouth football team is the Big Green. IBM is sometimes known as Big Blue.
|-
| The Glass Cradle || [[wikipedia:The Glass Menagerie|The Glass Menagerie]] || A play by Tennessee Williams
|-
| The Road Source ||{{w|Rome}} || From the saying that {{w|All Roads Lead to Rome}}
|-
| London Prime || London || In the DC comics, to incorporate multiple continuties, there were multiple universes. London Prime would be "real London" on Earth Prime. Various cities named {{w|New London}} in the United States and elsewhere are imagined as London in alternate continuities. Alternatively in mathematics, a [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_(symbol)#Use_in_mathematics.2C_statistics.2C_and_science prime mark], x' can be the next iteration of variable x.
|-
| Hamtown || {{w|Boston}}, {{w|Hamburg}}, {{w|Toronto}} || Boston is known as [[wikipedia:Boston nicknames|beantown]], pork and beans are commonly cooked together (as in {{w|Boston baked beans}}), and ham is a form of pork. The German word ''Burg'' means castle or fort and is often used as suffix for town names. The origin of the prefix ''Ham'' is uncertain, but the food {{w|Hamburger}} derives from this city and ''Hamburger'' in German is the demonym of Hamburg. Toronto sometimes nicknamed Hogtown.
|-
| The Salad Bowl || || A theory of cultural integration in the US, one that stands in contrast to the older 'Melting Pot' theory. Could also refer to the [[wikipedia: Dust Bowl|Dust Bowl]]. Could also refer to Salinas, CA "Salad Bowl of the world"
|-
| God's Boudoir || God's Waiting Room || State of {{w|Florida}}, where many elderly retire then expire. As a ''{{w|boudoir}}'' is a room reserved for a female (host), this usage would implicate that either God is a woman, or that God frequents there often
|-
| The Glittering Swamp || [[wikipedia:Great Dismal Swamp|The Great Dismal Swamp ]], {{w|Washington, D.C.}} || A large swamp in Virginia and North Carolina. Also, the city of {{w|Washington, D.C.}} has often been referred to as a "swamp," owing partly to its past as a [http://networks.h-net.org/node/28441/pages/36129/swamps-and-city-washington malarial swamp].
|-
| The Steel Forest || The Concrete Jungle || The Concrete Jungle is a name often given to New York's Manhattan area. There was also a book and movie titled ''The Petrified Forest''.
|-
| The Mobius Strip || The Strip || The Strip is a shortened and commonly used name for the Las Vegas Strip, the main area of hotels and casinos in Las Vegas, Nevada. A {{w|Mobius strip}} is a one-sided piece of paper created by rotating the short edge of the strip 180 degrees and attaching it to the other short edge. The Vegas strip has more or less only one side as well.
|-
| The Land of Trains and Fog || || Britain was home to early developments in railroading, and some portions are known for fog and mists.
In the webcomic [[wikipedia:Homestuck | Homestuck]] many events take place on various planets named in the format "The Land of X and Y", e.g. "The Land of Light and Rain". A series of novels by George R.R. Martin, which was made into the ''Game of Thrones'' TV show, is called ''A Song of Ice and Fire''. The Grand Canyon is known as "The House of Stone and Light" by some native people'.
|-
| The Meeting Place || ||
|-
| The Dark Star || || ''Dark Star'' is a 1974 science fiction comedy film.
|-
| The Walled Garden || {{w|Walled garden (technology)}} || A walled garden is a virtual environment where the user can only view content that is published or permitted by the proprietor, e.g. AOL or Facebook. This could also be a reference to walled cities, e.g. from the Middle Ages, or the {{w|Kowloon Walled City}} in the modern era. ''The Secret Garden'' is a book by Frances Hodgson Burnett. Or possibly a reference to the {{w|Hanging Gardens of Babylon}}
|-
| Skin City || [[wikipedia:Sin City (description)|Sin City]] || Generic term for a city well known for gambling, drugs, or other vices. Also Las Vegas.
|-
| The Horse Rotary || || Horse and rotary are both types of clothes dryer. Might reference The Windy City, which would also likely be good for drying clothes.
|-
| Turkeytown || Turkeytown || A town in Lincoln County, Kentucky
|-
| The Naked Towers || || ''The Naked City'' was a television series. ''The Two Towers'' is a book by Tolkien, and ''Naked Lunch'' is a book by Burroughs
|-
| The Meta-City || Metacity || A term for a heterogenous, sprawling urban center with multiple dense centers, such as Tokyo or New York City. Metacity was also the window manager in the Linux GNOME 2 desktop.
|-
| The Urban Orb || || The screen name of a Let's Player on Youtube and Twitch. - Also maybe once more: Rome and the Rest of the world, as in the popes adress to the urbi (city: meaning rome ) and orbi (circle: meaning the world)
|-
| The City of Angles || City of Angels || Los Angeles. Also, the titular City of Angles in the web novel [http://stefangagne.com/cityofangles/ City of Angles]. There also exist several songs with that name, a few of them listed here: {{w|City of Angels}}.
|-
| The Big Wheel || [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0041179/ The Big Wheel] || A 1949 movie about a race car driver. Alternatively, a child's plastic tricycle with an oversized front wheel.
|-
| Bird City USA || || A program started by the Audubon Society.
|-
| The City of Seven Crowns || City of Seven Hills || Rome. Also occasionally refers to Moscow. The next nickname is likely a reference to the 'wrong' part of this nickname.
|-
| Hilltopia || The Hilltop || May be reference to The Hilltop in AMC's The Walking Dead
|-
| Bug City || || A nickname for the bug-infested Chicago in the roleplaying game Shadowrun. Also, a sourcebook for the game.
|-
| The Bottomless Cup || || There are many mentions of Bottomless Pits in stories. Additionally, restaurants offering unlimited refills on drinks may refer to this offer by terms like "Bottomless Soda."
|-
| Lorde's Fen || Lord's Fen || [[wikipedia:Lorde| Lorde]] is a musical artist from Herne Bay, New Zealand - an area near Waitemata Harbour. A [[wikipedia:Fen| fen]] is a type of wetland, which could loosely connect to Herne Bay.
|-
| The Last Town || || The third book in the Wayward Pines series.
|-
| The Empty Set || || The concert hall in the video game Transistor. In mathematics, the {{w|empty set}} refers to an unique set with no elements, often notated as "{}" or "∅".
|-
| Ghost Harbor || || The name for a brewing company in North Carolina.
|}

{| class=wikitable
! Demonym in comic
! Reference
! Explanation
|-
| Northlanders || {{w|Norsemen}} || Norsemen, literally men from the north, people from Scandinavia. Could also be a reference to highlanders, the people of the {{w|Scottish Highlands}}, with a similar demonym. The "High" in "Highlands" is a reference to the mountainous landscape, not the geographical position.
|-
| Fair Folk || {{w|Fairy}} || The fair folk is a name for fairies in folklore. The elves in ''The Lord of the Rings'' are referred to as the 'fair folk'.
|-
| Honey Barons || [[wikipedia: Robber_baron_(industrialist) | Robber Barons]], [[wikipedia: Honey_badger | Honey Badgers]], [[wikipedia: Honey bear| honey bear]] || Possibly a play on The Robber Barons, a group of powerful industrialists in the late 1800s known for questionable business ethics, and honey badgers, animals known for their tough skin, bad tempers, and tenacity. Honey bear is a name for a few types of bear, as well as kinkajous.
|-
| Lake Dwellers || The Hobbit || Most likely a reference the people of the Laketown in J.R.R.Tolkien's "The Hobbit"
|-
| Treasurers || || A {{w|treasurer}} is a person in charge of running the treasury of an organization, for example a governmental department. The Auditors were characters in Terry Pratchett's Discworld books who did the book-keeping for reality, and wanted to simplify the universe by destroying life.
|-
| Swamp Watchers || ||
|-
| Dream Farmers || The Dream Factory || Hollywood, California, in its role as the center of the American film industry.
|-
| Wellfolk || Werefolk || The were folk were people who could change into animals: e.g. werewolves.
|-
| Rockeaters || [[Wikipedia:List_of_The_Neverending_Story_characters#Pyornkrachzark_and_the_other_messengers| Rockbiter]] || In the ''Never Ending Story'', Pyornkrachzark, more commonly known as "Rock Biter" is a large creature made completely of stone, named due to their diet of rocks.
May also refer to {{w|Lotus-eaters}}; while these mythical people slept in narcotic apathy, rockeaters might have a tougher time.
|-
| Forgotten Royals || [[wikipedia:Forgotten Realms | Forgotten Realms]] || Royalty from Dungeons and Dragons (D&D) campaign setting
|-
| Remote Clients || [[wikipedia:Remote_computer|Remote client]] || In computing, a remote client is a program used to access a computer or service over a network.
|-
| Barrow-Clerks || [http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Barrow-wights Barrow-wights] || Wraith like creatures in ''The Lord of the Rings''. The hobbits come across them in the [http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Barrow-downs Barrow-downs].
Those who keep records of items deposited in a grave mound or barrow.
|-
| The People of Land and Sky || [[wikipedia:Sea_Peoples|Sea Peoples]] ||
|}

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
:[Black Hat, Megan, and Ponytail are standing on a hill overlooking a city. The Gateway Arch is visible, as well as a number of skyscrapers in the skyline.]
:Black Hat: Ah, New York. The Hot Tamale.
:Megan: This is St. Louis. Also, that's not–
:Black Hat: The Winged City. The Gold Trombone. Castleopolis.
:Megan: It's none of those.

:[Close-up of Black Hat]
:Black Hat: The Kissing Kingdom. Sandland. The High Place. Ol' Ironhook.
:Megan (off-panel): Still wrong.
:Black Hat: The Thousand Spires. The Graveyard of Kings. Bloomtown. Lantern City USA.
:Megan (off-panel): Please stop.

:[Black Hat, Megan, and Ponytail are walking]
:Black Hat: The City of Many Daughters. Big Mauve. The Glass Cradle. The Road Source. London Prime. Hamtown. The Salad Bowl. God's Boudoir. The Glittering Swamp. The Steel Forest. The Mobius Strip. The Land of Trains and Fog. The Meeting Place. The Dark Star. The Walled Garden. Skin City. The Horse Rotary. Turkeytown. The Naked Towers. The Meta-City. The Urban Orb. The City of Angles. The Big Wheel. Bird City USA. The City of Seven Crowns. Hilltopia. Bug City. The Bottomless Cup. [Text size getting smaller] Lorde's Fen. The Last Town. The Empty Set. Ghost Harbor.
:Megan: How long does this last?
:Ponytail: No city has ever let him stay long enough to find out.

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Comics featuring Black Hat]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]

1047: Approximations

2017-06-08T21:37:08Z

Davidgro: /* Explanation */ Removed incorrect "For".

{{comic
| number = 1047
| date = April 25, 2012
| title = Approximations
| image = approximations.png
| titletext = Two tips: 1) 8675309 is not just prime, it's a twin prime, and 2) if you ever find yourself raising log(anything)^e or taking the pi-th root of anything, set down the marker and back away from the whiteboard; something has gone horribly wrong.
}}

==Explanation==
This comic lists some approximations for numbers, most of them mathematical and physical constants, but some of them jokes and cultural references.

Approximations like these are sometimes used as {{w|mnemonic}}s by mathematicians and physicists, though most of Randall's approximations are too convoluted to be useful as mnemonics. Perhaps the best known mnemonic approximation (though not used here by Randall) is that "pi is approximately equal to 22/7". Randall does mention (and mock) the common mnemonic among physicists that the {{w|fine structure constant}} is approximately 1/137. Although Randall gives approximations for the number of seconds in a year, he does not mention the common physicist's mnemonic that it is "pi times 10^7," though he later added a statement to the top of the comic page addressing this point.

At the bottom of the comic are expressions involving {{w|transcendental numbers}} (namely pi and e) that are tantalizingly close to being exactly true but are not (indeed, they cannot be, due to the nature of transcendental numbers). Such near-equations were previously discussed in [[217: e to the pi Minus pi]]. One of the entries, though, is a "red herring" that is exactly true.

Randall says he compiled this table through "a mix of trial-and-error, ''{{w|Mathematica}}'', and Robert Munafo's [http://mrob.com/pub/ries/ Ries] tool. "Ries" is a "{{w|Closed-form expression#Conversion from numerical forms|reverse calculator}}" that forms equations matching a given number.

The world population estimate is still accurate as of March 29, 2017 (if you round). The estimate is 7.4 billion, and the population is 7.38 billion.

The first part of the title text notes that "Jenny's constant," which is actually a telephone number referenced in Tommy Tutone's 1982 song {{w|867-5309/Jenny}}, is not only prime but a {{w|twin prime}} because 8675311 is also a prime. Twin primes have always been a subject of interest, because they are comparatively rare, and because it is not yet known whether there are infinitely many of them. Twin primes were also referenced in [[1310: Goldbach Conjectures]].

The second part of the title text makes fun of the unusual mathematical operations contained in the comic. {{w|Pi}} is a useful number in many contexts, but it doesn't usually occur anywhere in an exponent. Even when it does, such as with complex numbers, taking the pi-th root is rarely helpful. Similarly, {{w|e (mathematical constant)|e}} typically appears in the basis of a power (forming the {{w|exponential function}}), not in the exponent. (This is later referenced in [http://what-if.xkcd.com/73/ Lethal Neutrinos]).

:{| class="wikitable"
|-
|align="center"|Thing to be approximated:
|align="center"|Formula proposed:
|align="center"|Resulting approximate value:
|align="center"|Correct value:
|align="center"|Discussion:
|-
|align="center"|One light-year(m)
|align="center"|998
|align="center"|9,227,446,944,279,201
|align="center"|9,460,730,472,580,800 (exact)
|align="left"|Based on 365.25 days per year (see below). 998 and 698 are sexual references.
|-
|align="center"|Earth Surface(m2)
|align="center"|698
|align="center"|513,798,374,428,641
|align="center"|5.10072*1014
|align="left"|998 and 698 are sexual references.
|-
|align="center"|Oceans' volume(m3)
|align="center"|919
|align="center"|1,350,851,717,672,992,089
|align="center"|1,332*1018
|align="left"|
|-
|align="center"|Seconds in a year
|align="center"|754
|align="center"|31,640,625
|align="center"|31,557,600 (Julian calendar), 31,556,952 (Gregorian calendar)
|align="left"|After this comic was released [[Randall]] got many responses by viewers. So he did add this statement to the top of the comic page:
"Lots of emails mention the physicist favorite, 1 year = pi x 107 seconds. 754 is a hair more accurate, but it's hard to top 3,141,592's elegance." Pi x 107 is nearly equal to 31,415,926.536, and 754 is exactly 31,640,625. Randall's elegance belongs to the number pi, but it should be multiplied by the factor of ten.

Using the traditional definitions that a second is 1/60th of a minute, a minute is 1/60th of an hour, and an hour is 1/24th of a day, a 365-day common year is exactly 31,536,000 seconds (the "''Rent'' method" approximation) and the 366-day leap year is 31,622,400 seconds. Until the calendar was reformed by Pope Gregory, there was one leap year in every four years, making the average year 365.25 days, or 31,557,600 seconds. On the current calendar system, there are only 97 leap years in every 400 years, making the average year 365.2425 days, or 31,556,952 seconds. In technical usage, a "second" is now defined based on physical constants, even though the length of a day varies inversely with the changing angular velocity of the earth. To keep the official time synchronized with the rotation of the earth, a "leap second" is occasionally added, resulting in a slightly longer year.
|-
|align="center"|Seconds in a year (''Rent'' method)
|align="center"|525,600 x 60
|align="center"|31,536,000
|align="center"|31,557,600 (Julian calendar), 31,556,952 (Gregorian calendar)
|align="left"|"Rent Method" refers to the song "Seasons of Love" from the musical "{{w|Rent (musical)|Rent}}." The song asks, "How do you measure a year?" One line says "525,600 minutes" while most of the rest of the song suggests the best way to measure a year is moments shared with a loved one.
|-
|align="center"|Age of the universe (seconds)
|align="center"|1515
|align="center"|437,893,890,380,859,375
|align="center"|4.354±0.012*1017 (best estimate; exact value unknown)
|align="left"|
|-
|align="center"|Planck's constant
|align="center"|1/(30πe)
|align="center"|6.68499014108082*10−34 (rounded)
|align="center"|6.62606957*10−34
|align="left"|Informally, the {{w|Planck constant}} is the smallest action possible in quantum mechanics.
|-
|align="center"|Fine structure constant
|align="center"|1/140
|align="center"|0.00714285
|align="center"|0.0072973525664 (accepted value as of 2014), close to 1/137
|align="left"|The {{w|fine structure constant}} indicates the strength of electromagnetism. It is unitless and around 0.007297, close to 1/137. At one point it was believed to be exactly the reciprocal of 137, and many people have tried to find a simple formula explaining this (with a pinch of {{w|numerology}} thrown in at times), including the infamous {{w|Arthur Eddington|Sir Arthur Adding-One}}.
|-
|align="center"|Fundamental charge
|align="center"|3/(14 * πππ)
|align="center"|1.59895121062716*10−19 (rounded)
|align="center"|1.602176565*10−19 (rounded)
|align="left"|This is the charge of the proton, symbolized "e" for electron (whose charge is actually -e. You can blame Benjamin Franklin [[567|for that]].)
|-
|align="center"|Telephone number for the White House Switchboard
|align="center"|1/ 
π√(e(1 + (e-1)√8))
|align="center"|.2024561414 (truncated)
|align="center"|2024561414
|align="left"|
|-
|align="center"|Jenny's Constant
|align="center"|(7(e/1 - 1/e) - 9) * π2
|align="center"|867.530901981685 (approximately)
|align="center"|8675309
|align="left"|"Jenny's constant" is actually a telephone number referenced in Tommy Tutone's 1982 song {{w|867-5309/Jenny}}. As mentioned in the title text, the number not only prime but a {{w|twin prime}} because 8675311 is also a prime.
|-
|align="center"|World Population Estimate (billions)
|align="center"|Equivalent to 6+((3/4 Year + 1/4 (Year mod 4) - 1499)/10) billion
|align="center"|2005 6.5
2006 6.6
2007 6.7
2008 6.7
2009 6.8
2010 6.9
2011 7
2012 7
2013 7.1
2014 7.2
2015 7.3
2016 7.3
2017 7.4
2018 7.5
2019 7.6
2020 7.6
2021 7.7
2022 7.8
2023 7.9
2024 7.9
2025 8
2026 8.1
2027 8.2
2028 8.2
2029 8.3
2030 8.4
2031 8.5
2032 8.5
|align="center"|
|align="left"|
|-
|align="center"|U.S. Population Estimate (millions)
|align="center"|Equivalent to 310+3*(Year - 2010) million
|align="center"|2000 280
2001 283
2002 286
2003 289
2004 292
2005 295
2006 298
2007 301
2008 304
2009 307
2010 310
2011 313
2012 316
2013 319
2014 322
2015 325
2016 328
2017 331
2018 334
2019 337
2020 340
2021 343
2022 346
2023 349
2024 352
2025 355
2026 358
2027 361
2028 364
2029 367
2030 370
2031 373
2032 376
|align="center"|
|align="left"|
|-
|align="center"|Electron rest energy
|align="center"|e/716 J
|align="center"|8.17948276564429*10−14
|align="center"|8.18710438*10−14 (rounded)
|align="left"|
|-
|align="center"|Light-year(miles)
|align="center"|2(42.42)
|align="center"|5884267614436.97 (rounded)
|align="center"|9460730472580800 (meters in a light-year, by definition) / 1609.344 (meters in a mile) = 8212439646337500/1397 (exact) = 5878625373183.61 (rounded)
|align="left"|{{w|42 (number)|42}} is, according to Douglas Adams' ''The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy'', the Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
|-
|align="center"|sin(60°) = √3/2
|align="center"|e/π
|align="center"|0.8652559794 (rounded)
|align="center"|0.8660254038 (rounded)
|align="left"|
|-
|align="center"|√3
|align="center"|2e/π
|align="center"|1.7305119589 (rounded)
|align="center"|1.7320508076 (rounded)
|align="left"|
|-
|align="center"|γ(Euler's gamma constant)
|align="center"|1/√3
|align="center"|0.5773502692 (rounded)
|align="center"|0.5772156649015328606065120900824024310421...
|align="left"|In {{w|mathematics}}, the {{w|Euler-Mascheroni constant}} (Euler gamma constant) is a mysterious number describing the relationship between the {{w|Harmonic series (mathematics)|harmonic series}} and the {{w|natural logarithm}}.
|-
|align="center"|Feet in a meter
|align="center"|5/(e√π)
|align="center"|3.2815481951
|align="center"|1/0.3048 (exact) = 3.280839895 (rounded)
|align="left"|
|-
|align="center"|√5
|align="center"|2/e + 3/2
|align="center"|2.2357588823 (rounded)
|align="center"|2.2360679775 (rounded)
|align="left"|
|-
|align="center"|Avogadro's number
|align="center"|69π√5
|align="center"|6.02191201246329*1023 (rounded)
|align="center"|6.02214129*1023 (rounded)
|align="left"|Also called a Mole for shorthand, this is (roughly) the number of individual atoms in twelve grams of pure Carbon. Used in basically every application of chemistry.
|-
|align="center"|Gravitational constant G
|align="center"|1 / e(pi - 1)(pi + 1)
|align="center"|6.67361106850561*10−11 (rounded)
|align="center"|6.67385*10−11 (rounded)
|align="left"|The universal {{w|gravitational constant}} G is equal to F*r2/Mm, where F is the gravitational force between two objects, r is the distance between them, and M and m are their masses.
|-
|align="center"|R (gas constant)
|align="center"|(e+1) √5
|align="center"|8.3143309279 (rounded)
|align="center"|8.3144622 (rounded)
|align="left"|The {{w|gas constant}} relates energy to temperature in physics, as well as a gas's volume, pressure, temperature and {{w|mole (unit)|molar amount}} (hence the name).
|-
|align="center"|Proton-electron mass ratio
|align="center"|6*π5
|align="center"|1836.1181087117 (rounded)
|align="center"|1836.15267246 (rounded)
|align="left"|
|-
|align="center"|Liters in a gallon (U.S. liquid gallon, defined by law as 231 cubic inches)
|align="center"|3 + π/4
|align="center"|3.7853981634 (rounded)
|align="center"|3.785411784 (exact)
|align="left"|
|-
|align="center"|''g''0 or ''g''n
|align="center"|6 + ln(45)
|align="center"|9.8066624898 (rounded)
|align="center"|9.80665 (standard)
|align="left"|Standard gravity, or standard acceleration due to free fall is the nominal gravitational acceleration of an object in a vacuum near the surface of the Earth. It is defined by standard as 9.80665 m/s2, which is exactly 35.30394 (km/h)/s (about 32.174 ft/s2, or 21.937 mph/s). This value was established by the 3rd CGPM (1901, CR 70) and used to define the standard weight of an object as the product of its mass and this nominal acceleration. The acceleration of a body near the surface of the Earth is due to the combined effects of gravity and centrifugal acceleration from rotation of the Earth (but which is small enough to be neglected for most purposes); the total (the apparent gravity) is about 0.5 percent greater at the poles than at the equator. Randall used a letter g without a suffix, which can also mean the local acceleration due to local gravity and centrifugal acceleration, which varies depending on one's position on Earth.
|-
|align="center"|Proton-electron mass ratio
|align="center"|(e8 - 10) / ϕ
|align="center"|1836.1530151398 (rounded)
|align="center"|1836.15267246 (rounded)
|align="left"|ϕ is the {{w|golden ratio}}, or (1 + √5)/2. It has many interesting geometrical properties.
|-
|align="center"|Ruby laser wavelength
|align="center"|1 / (12002)
|align="center"|0.00000069444
|align="center"|694.3 nm
|align="left"|The ruby laser wavelength varies because "ruby" is not clearly defined.
|-
|align="center"|Mean Earth Radius
|align="center"|(58)*6e
|align="center"|2343750e (exact), 6,370,973.035450887270375673760982 (6370 km, 973 m, 35 mm, 450 μm, 887 nm, 270 pm, 375 fm, 673 am, 760 zm, 982 ym) (rounded)
|align="center"|6,371,008.7 (International Union of Geodesy and Geophysics definition)
|align="left"|The {{w|Earth radius#mean radii|mean earth radius}} varies because there is not one single way to make a sphere out of the earth. Randall's value lies within the actual variation of Earth's radius. The International Union of Geodesy and Geophysics (IUGG) defines the mean radius as 2/3 of the equatorial radius (6,378,137.0 m) plus 1/3 of the polar radius (6,356,752.3 m).
|-
|align="center"|√2
|align="center"|3/5 + π/(7-π)
|align="center"|1.4142200581 (rounded)
|align="center"|1.4142135624 (rounded)
|align="left"|There are reoccurring math jokes along the lines of, "3/5 + π/(7 – π) – √2 = 0, but your calculator is probably not good enough to compute this correctly".
|-
|align="center"|cos(π/7) + cos(3π/7) + cos(5π/7)
|align="center"|1/2
|align="center"|0.5
|align="center"|0.5 (exact)
|align="left"|This is the exactly correct equation referred to in the note, "Pro tip - Not all of these are wrong", as shown below and also [http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/140388/how-can-one-prove-cos-pi-7-cos3-pi-7-cos5-pi-7-1-2 here]. If you're still confused, the functions use {{w|radians}}, not {{w|degrees (angle)|degrees}}.
|-
|align="center"|γ(Euler's gamma constant)
|align="center"|e/34 + e/5
|align="center"|0.5772154006 (rounded)
|align="center"|0.5772156649015328606065120900824024310421...
|align="left"|In {{w|mathematics}}, the {{w|Euler-Mascheroni constant}} (Euler gamma constant) is a mysterious number describing the relationship between the {{w|Harmonic series (mathematics)|harmonic series}} and the {{w|natural logarithm}}.
|-
|align="center"|√5
|align="center"|(13 + 4π) / (24 - 4π)
|align="center"|2.2360678094 (rounded)
|align="center"|2.2360679775 (rounded)
|align="left"|
|-
|align="center"|Σ 1/nn
|align="center"|ln(3)e
|align="center"|1.2912987577 (rounded)
|align="center"|1.2912859971 (rounded)
|align="left"|
|}

===Proof===

One of the "approximations" actually is precisely correct: cos(π/7) + cos(3π/7) + cos(5π/7) = 1/2. Here is a proof:

cos(π/7) + cos(3π/7) + cos(5π/7)

* Multiplying by 1 (or by a number divided by itself) leaves the equation unchanged.

= (cos(π/7) + cos(3π/7) + cos(5π/7)) (2sin(π/7)/(2sin(π/7)))

* The 2sin(π/7) on the top of the fraction is multiplied through the original equation.

= (2cos(π/7)sin(π/7) + 2cos(3π/7)sin(π/7) + 2cos(5π/7)sin(π/7))/(2sin(π/7))

* Use the trigonometric identity 2cos(A)sin(B)=sin(A+B)-sin(A-B) on the 2nd two terms ([2cos(3π/7)sin(π/7)] + {2cos(5π/7)sin(π/7)}) /(2sin(π/7))

= (2cos(π/7)sin(π/7) + [sin(3π/7+π/7) - sin(3π/7-π/7)] + {sin(5π/7+π/7) - sin(5π/7-π/7)}) (1/2sin(π/7)) 
= (2cos(π/7)sin(π/7) + [sin(4π/7) - sin(2π/7)] + {sin(6π/7) - sin(4π/7)})/(2sin(π/7))

* Use the trigonometric identity 2cos(A)sin(A) = sin(2A) on the first term (2cos(π/7)sin(π/7))

= (sin(2π/7) + [sin(4π/7) - sin(2π/7)] + {sin(6π/7) - sin(4π/7)}) (1/2sin(π/7)) 
= (sin(6π/7) + [sin(2π/7) - sin(2π/7)] + {sin(4π/7) - sin(4π/7)}) (1/2sin(π/7)) 
= (sin(6π/7))/(2sin(π/7))

* Note that 6π/7 = (7π - π)/7 = 7π/7 - π/7 = π - π/7.

= (sin(π - π/7))/(2sin(π/7))

*Since sines of supplementary angles are equal.

= (sin(π/7))/(2sin(π/7)) 
= (1/2) (sin(π/7)/sin(π/7)) 
= 1/2

==Transcript==
:'''A table of slightly wrong equations and identities useful for approximations and/or trolling teachers.'''
:(Found using a mix of trial-and-error, ''Mathematica'', and Robert Munafo's ''Ries'' tool.)
: All units are SI MKS unless otherwise noted.

:{| class="wikitable"
|-
|colspan="2" align="center" | Relation:
|align="center" | Accurate to within:
|-
|align="center" | One light-year(m)
|align="center" | 998
|align="center" | one part in 40
|-
|align="center" | Earth Surface(m2)
|align="center" | 698
|align="center" | one part in 130
|-
|align="center" | Oceans' volume(m3)
|align="center" | 919
|align="center" | one part in 70
|-
|align="center" | Seconds in a year
|align="center" | 754
|align="center" | one part in 400
|-
|align="center" | Seconds in a year (''Rent'' method)
|align="center" | 525,600 x 60
|align="center" | one part in 1400
|-
|align="center" | Age of the universe (seconds)
|align="center" | 1515
|align="center" | one part in 70
|-
|align="center" | Planck's constant
|align="center" | 1/(30πe)
|align="center" | one part in 110
|-
|align="center" | Fine structure constant
|align="center" | 1/140
|align="center" | [I've had enough of this 137 crap]
|-
|align="center" | Fundamental charge
|align="center" | 3/(14 * πππ)
|align="center" | one part in 500
|-
|align="center"|White House Switchboard
|colspan="2" align="center"|1/ 
π√(e(1 + (e-1)√8))
|-
|align="center"|Jenny's Constant
|colspan="2" align="center"|(7(e/1 - 1/e) - 9) * π2
|-
|colspan="3" align="center"|Intermission: World Population Estimate which should stay current for a decade or two: 
Take the last two digits of the current year

Example: 20[14]

Subtract the number of leap years since hurricane Katrina

Example: 14 (minus 2008 and 2012) is 12

Add a decimal point

Example: 1.2

Add 6

Example: 6 + 1.2

7.2 = World population in billions.

Version for US population:

Example: 20[14]

Subtract 10

Example: 4

Multiply by 3

Example: 12

Add 10

Example: 3[22] million
|-
|align="center"|Electron rest energy
|align="center"|e/716 J
|align="center"|one part in 1000
|-
|align="center"|Light-year(miles)
|align="center"|2(42.42)
|align="center"|one part in 1000
|-
|colspan="2" align="center"|sin(60°) = √3/2 = e/π
|align="center"|one part in 1000
|-
|colspan="2" align="center"|√3 = 2e/π
|align="center"|one part in 1000
|-
|align="center"|γ(Euler's gamma constant)
|align="center"|1/√3
|align="center"|one part in 4000
|-
|align="center"|Feet in a meter
|align="center"|5/(e√π)
|align="center"|one part in 4000
|-
|colspan="2" align="center"|√5 = 2/e + 3/2
|align="center"|one part in 7000
|-
|align="center"|Avogadro's number
|align="center"|69π√5
|align="center"|one part in 25,000
|-
|align="center"|Gravitational constant G
|align="center"|1 / e(pi - 1)(pi + 1)
|align="center"|one part in 25,000
|-
|align="center"|R (gas constant)
|align="center"|(e+1) √5
|align="center"|one part in 50,000
|-
|align="center"|Proton-electron mass ratio
|align="center"|6*π5
|align="center"|one part in 50,000
|-
|align="center"|Liters in a gallon
|align="center"|3 + π/4
|align="center"|one part in 500,000
|-
|align="center"|g
|align="center"|6 + ln(45)
|align="center"|one part in 750,000
|-
|align="center"|Proton-electron mass ratio
|align="center"|(e8 - 10) / ϕ
|align="center"|one part in 5,000,000
|-
|align="center"|Ruby laser wavelength
|align="center"|1 / (12002)
|align="center"|[within actual variation]
|-
|align="center"|Mean Earth Radius
|align="center"|(58)*6e
|align="center"|[within actual variation]
|-
|colspan="3" align="center"|Protip - not all of these are wrong:
|-
|colspan="2" align="center"|√2 = 3/5 + π/(7-π)
|align="center"|cos(π/7) + cos(3π/7) + cos(5π/7) = 1/2
|-
|align="center"|γ(Euler's gamma constant) = e/34 + e/5
|align="center"|√5 = (13 + 4π) / (24 - 4π)
|align="center"|Σ 1/nn = ln(3)e
|}

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Charts]]
[[Category:Math]]
[[Category:Physics]]
[[Category:Protip]]

Talk:1645: Toasts

2016-08-06T01:21:18Z

Davidgro:

Are we sure "single-payer" is not a typo, making it "single-player" to fit with "RealPlayer"? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.202.144|162.158.202.144]] 11:18, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
:That's what I thought as well. [[User:Maplestrip|Maplestrip]] ([[User talk:Maplestrip|talk]]) 11:19, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
::Yes it is not a typo as Single-payer refers to Single-payer healthcare as now explained above. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:27, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
:::Randall often corrects comic with errors, and if it had been an error he would probably also have spotted it by now, and it has not changed on xkcd. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:14, 22 February 2016 (UTC)--

: It seems correct. It is rather abstract, but I guess single-payer here is considered a good thing and RealPlayer a bad thing. Added to rime that a a different type of "player" might be what his single friends need.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.165|162.158.90.165]] 22:38, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

I'm fairly certain this comic is in reference to the "Fall Out Boy" song, entitled "Champagne For My Real Friends And Real Pain For My Sham Friends", from their 2005 album "From Under The Cork Tree"; though he could also be referencing Francis Bacon, Tom Waits, the television show Happy Days, the show One Tree Hill, or Spike Lee's "25th Hour". If you do a Google search for the phrase, it requires some exclusions (like -"fall out boy") to prevent that song from dominating the first page of results. It's one of their most famous titles.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.48|108.162.216.48]] 12:00, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
:Please just include links to these relevant songs etc. in the explanation. And thanks for the comment. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:27, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
::Turns out it was an old quote so not to this song but both are now mentioned in the explanation.--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:51, 21 February 2016 (UTC)


Quote from early explantion: White Hat thus wish that his real friends have access to free health care, and all his single friends will get RealPlayer. Maybe he wishes to impress these singles with a present and hope he gets lucky. (If it has been Hairy this would have seemed very likely… see 1178: Pickup Artists. White Hat has not previously displayed thse tendencies to clearly).
I doubt this. RealPlayer was a terrible piece of software nobody wanted and was often bundled with spyware (see wikipedia) {{unsigned ip|141.101.70.121}}
:Well I wrote it and disagree. Since it has been on the market for 10 years, and has just been updated, then it cannot be that terrible, and I cannot find what you say should be on Wikipedia to show that it should be bad still at present. But of course if it has just been upgraded to a new name, then giving the old app is not so hot. Has addressed this in the explanation. Aqlso please feel free to update something you find in error yourself ;-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:27, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
:: You wrote the source code for RealPlayer or the explantation here? If first you should know why it has such a bad reputation, if second: RealPlayer was some time ago bundled with spyware that sent unique ID's with other userdata to a server, also it had several other problems and is considered by several tech magazines as one of the worst software programs. It might not mention that in the english wikipedia but the german has a section for it. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/RealPlayer#Kritik To stay on topic: Maybe he wishes his single friends RealPlayer so they need his help to get the malware off their computers and he can impress them? Is way more probable from my experience. [[User:Bobylein|Bobylein]] ([[User talk:Bobylein|talk]]) 12:43, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
:::I wrote the explanation! And to stay in English for those who are not native Germans... we can also take the English wiki link to the {{w|RealPlayer#Reviews_and_critiques|critique}}! ;-) As I can read from that it was in 1999 and 2007 that it was bad, and as this is now 9 years ago at least, and they keep updating it, the errors may have been improved out? Why would anyone else continue to make it better or using it? But again feel free to update the explanation even more with these kinds of info. I still think it is not so bad to get a free app, unless it is the spy ware version. I expect this doesn't exist anymore, and it is not explicitly stated that he would give them that.--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:53, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
::::None of these negative interpretations of RealPlayer fit with White Hat's personality.--[[User:Nekoninda|Nekoninda]] 13:34, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
:::::There's more to realplayer than adware. Realaudio/realvideo were among the first streaming media formats on the internet. As such, it was used at that time by many adult-oriented sites offering streaming video. It is very possible that the single friends of White Hat might be interested by such media. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.49.25|173.245.49.25]] 13:04, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
::::::Guys, it's a porn joke... Guys?.. *headdesk* I love you guys [[User:Xerxesbeat|xerxesbeat]] ([[User talk:Xerxesbeat|talk]]) 20:00, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

This is the first comic with [[Hair Bun Girl]] since [[User:Jkshapiro|Jkshapiro]] proposed a name change to for instance Hairbun. I take this chance to get more comments on this subject by posting his note, that is now posted on her site: Should [[Hair Bun Girl]] be renamed to Hairbun? [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/explain_xkcd:Community_portal/Proposals#Rename_Hair_Bun_Girl See here]
--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:04, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

As a non-native speaker, when I first read it, I though "petty friends" could mean "pet animals" and "real coats" would then refer to them having real fur as coats - which is often an aspect animal friends don't like on certain rich people (wearing real fur coats), but completely normal for the animals itself.
Also "Realplayer", aside from its repuration as not-so-useable software, is used for video streaming, including on porn sites. So (male?) "single friends", being single, might have to resort using Realplayer/porn to satisfy their needs.
[[User:Zefiro|Zefiro]] ([[User talk:Zefiro|talk]]) 13:16, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

In regard to the second tile, I read it at first to mean that the girl's real friends are pseudopods and that all her human acquaintances are "pseudo-friends". This would be like a stereotypical "lab nerd". Doesn't track with any other slide, but I thought it might add to the conversation... {{unsigned ip|108.162.221.15}}

"Real bugs" for my "Lady Friends" - I took that as having sexual undertones. But maybe that was just me. --[[Special:Contributions/188.114.106.47|188.114.106.47]] 19:14, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

The last panel with Beret Guy might be a reference to any French expression using "faucon" ("hawk", sounds like "false cunt") and "vrai con" ("real cunt"). Sorry about the language by the way, but that's exactly what "con" mean, both literally and figuratively. A French equivalent to "Champagne for My Real Friends, Real Pain for My Sham Friends" would likely use those—although I can't think about a perfect one. It's usually along the lines "Quelle différence entre toi et un oiseau? Le faucon est un oiseau, toi t'es un vrai con." meaning "What's the difference between a bird and you? The hawk is a bird, you're a real cunt." Also, the current explanation seems really far-fetched to me. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.104.159|141.101.104.159]] 20:26, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
: Made the edit. Feel free to argue. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.104.159|141.101.104.159]] 03:47, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
::Firstly, I must disagree about "Fauxhawk", that "This '''IS'''" a reference to "faucon"/the french version of this phrase. I might go along with "might be". "Fauxhawk" is a word that really is used in the English language, for the described hairstyle. This connection seems only to be a mild coincidence, something better suited to a Trivia section (it DOES make for an interesting tidbit, but too obscure to be on purpose). Seems like a happy accident.

::Secondly, I remain unconvinced about "Single-Payer" not being a typo. Seems like a weird term, uncommon. Maybe this is just because I'm Canadian, maybe this term is very wide-spread to Americans, but due to American TV and content we DO hear a lot of American terms. If the intent was indeed to be "single-player", this could be a reference to how more and more video games these days focus on multiplayer/online play, many of which neglect the single-player content, to the point where it seems like the game makers are assuming nobody is interested. As such, this would mean wishing quality single-player gameplay for their real friends.

::Thirdly, about "pods". I understood it to mean "human container", like a stasis pod or escape pod (a common term for the spaceship equivalent of a lifeboat) Examples of such pods would include where Ripley "stored" herself at the end of Aliens, into the beginning of the next movie, or how baby Superman was transported to Earth. So, this person would be wishing these friends go into stasis, that their fake friends simply go away.

::And YAY! As of this comic I'm caught up, I've now read every xkcd starting from #1! :) - NiceGuy1[[Special:Contributions/198.41.235.215|198.41.235.215]] 07:36, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
:::The cunt reference is far-fetched. Have removed it. It off course remains here. Also: Yes it is not a typo as Single-payer refers to Single-payer healthcare as now explained above. (And also noted at the top of this discussion page)--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:51, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

Is it just me, or does the fact that several of the words also are the names of cocktails (Ladybug, Tumbleweed) have any significance? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.203.146|162.158.203.146]] 09:23, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
: My initial reaction to this thought was "no", seeing as those drinks aren't that widespread, for example I feel like I might have heard those cocktail names, but if so rarely and I've no idea as to their contents (i.e. as opposed to drinks like a Screwdriver, a Mimosa or a Black Russian, drinks which are rather universal, such that most adults probably know what's in them). However, on reflection, the original toast names a drink, toasts involve drinking, and both of those items - Ladybugs and Tumbleweeds - make for unpleasant gifts. So now I think this might be a genuine possibility. Does anybody know of any drinks sharing a name with any of the others? ("Single-payer" seems unlikely, but "Pseudopod" for example?) - NiceGuy1[[Special:Contributions/108.162.218.160|108.162.218.160]] 10:00, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
::I think that for some of the more strange thing to hand out to friends it makes sense that they refeer to the drinks as mentioned - there is even a beer called fauxhawks... I will add this to the explanation for those where there is a drink with that name. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:05, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

If a wiki mod/admin comes by there was a user who replaced the comments with spam. [[User:Codingale|Codingale]] ([[User talk:Codingale|talk]]) 13:43, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
:Noted and blocked. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 18:27, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
::I have found one other situation same user, who deleted entire [[1613]]. Have reverted the change.--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 18:55, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Shampoo for my real friends; real poo for my sham friends. {{unsigned ip|108.162.236.37}}

Shampoo in your wonder hair... {{unsigned ip|162.158.255.84}}

Are we sure that the title text isn't a reference to Plato's idealised metaphysical forms (which would include the Platonic solids), which stand in contrast to their imperfect instantiations in the real world? {{unsigned ip|141.101.70.20}}

ShamWows for my real friends; real shams for my WOW friends. {{unsigned ip|108.162.218.77}}

;psuedopods?

I rather get the feeling that the blond lady is into tentacle porn.
She wants her friends to be violated by them.... {{unsigned ip|198.41.235.11}}

Could 'real solids' refer to diet? When one has been sick, they are often on a liquid diet, and proceed to soft foods like gelatin desserts before moving back to 'real solids'. Given the number of drinks involved, this seems possible to me. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.43|173.245.54.43]] 22:20, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

I think it might be worth noting that dice for tabletop games (particularly role playing games such as D&D) tend to be shaped after the platonic solids. Perhaps Randall is suggesting a gaming session with his real friends. [[User:Davidgro|davidgro]] ([[User talk:Davidgro|talk]]) 01:21, 6 August 2016 (UTC)