explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

Talk:2071: Indirect Detection

2018-11-12T17:31:34Z

Jeudi Violist:

Genius reference in the title text to 'throwing shade', linking modern slang with something 2,400 years earlier! --[[User:OliReading|OliReading]] ([[User talk:OliReading|talk]]) 13:33, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
:Should I be concerned that I got the Plato reference from >2K years ago, but had to look up what "throwing shade" is? I feel so old now.[[User:Daemonik|Daemonik]] ([[User talk:Daemonik|talk]]) 15:26, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
::You're not the only one, if that makes you feel better![[Special:Contributions/162.158.94.32|162.158.94.32]] 16:51, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, first time entry editor, turned out I really couldn't add that much but I just really wanted to at least put this. I mean, what an awesome joke! [[User:Lheticus|Lheticus]] ([[User talk:Lheticus|talk]]) 13:50, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Remember that other comic strip where he was imagining a bad opinion, looked up to see if other people had it, and then preemptively writing online about how horrible an opinion it is? This could be a callback to it, except as viewed from somebody who is friends with the person writing about it. I'd mention this in the explanation part of this strip, except I can't remember which comic that comes from. Does anybody remember? Or even what the title was so I can search the title? [[User:Jeudi Violist|Jeudi Violist]] ([[User talk:Jeudi Violist|talk]]) 17:31, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

1985: Meteorologist

2018-04-26T01:46:39Z

Jeudi Violist: /* Explanation */ fixing up software developer section

{{comic
| number = 1985
| date = April 25, 2018
| title = Meteorologist
| image = meteorologist.png
| titletext = Hi, I'm your new meteorologist and a former software developer. Hey, when we say 12pm, does that mean the hour from 12pm to 1pm, or the hour centered on 12pm? Or is it a snapshot at 12:00 exactly? Because our 24-hour forecast has midnight at both ends, and I'm worried we have an off-by-one error.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by an OVERLY ANALYTICAL METEOROLOGIST. More on Cueballs 2nd panel. More on Blondie's linguistics. Explanation for {{w|dummy pronoun}}. Title text: What is "an {{w|off-by-one error}}"?. Wiki links. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

Although we’re constantly exposed to them, many (most?) people don’t understand the details of how to properly interpret weather forecasts. This comic takes this to the ridiculous extreme of the weather reporters themselves not understanding, and asking questions about it while on-air. It shows questions asked by three different people with different backgrounds: mathematics, linguistics, and (in the title text) software development. In addition, many terms and numbers used by weather forecasters have very technical definitions and usages; however, because they are used so commonly (whenever someone tells us the weather), it is easy to assume we understand what it means. This comic also points at this fact by asking clarifying questions about subjects that meteorologists know but the average person doesn't (such as the definition of "scattered showers" and how it's determined, what a "chance of rain" means, and so on).

The first meteorologist, [[Cueball]], has a background in pure math. His forecast states that each of the next five hours has a 20% chance of rain. It could be that rain was certain, but it would only last about an hour and will come within the next five hours. That would give 20% for rain in each hour but certainty of rain within those hours. This corresponds to his last question in the first panel.

But before that he focuses on probability when he asks if each hour is independent or correlated. If each hour were independent, there would have been a 67.232% chance to rain at least once. However, if the hours had been correlated, the chance would be less, since if it didn't rain in the first hour, it would decrease the chance of rain in the next hours. However, it would make it more likely of raining in all 5 hours, as it would be a .032% chance if it wasn't correlated. But if it was correlated, rain in the first hour would make it more likely to rain in the subsequent hours.

In the second panel he continues to discuss what scattered showers means. Like most of the other weather terms in this comic, the term "scattered showers" is one whose technical definition is largely unknown but appears simple enough that most people would assume they understand what it means. "Scattered" refers to when the rain covers roughly 30% to 50% of the area. To somebody who doesn't know this, like the first meteorologist, there's still the very valid question of how likely it is to rain in a specific spot, and how this is affected by the previous chance of rain. Not to mention, the percentage that defines "scattered showers" implicitly assumes a surface area that is accounted into the percent. Cueball rightly asks clarification on how large the location used to determine "scattered showers" is.

Finally in that panel Cueball begins to explain that he has asked the management about these things, but that they have stopped replying to his e-mails. At this point he spots the security guy coming over, and the screen goes black in to a technical difficulty screen that excuses this behavior to the viewers.

Questioning these things on air is likely confusing to the watchers, although they are all valid questions. But this may lose viewers and the news network is afraid of this. The technical difficulty panel further cements this, apologizing for hiring a person with a pure math background. Often seen as one that do not understand how to talk to regular people.

When they get back on air gain a new meteorologist, [[Blondie]], steps in. The management enquirers (on air) to make sure she is not also a mathematician. She states no, but tells that she has a linguistics degree, which the management thinks is fine, and thus believes they have prevented the problem with Cueball. However, this proves to be in vain, as Blondie goes into a tangent once more but from a linguistics standpoint, rather than a mathematical one, detailing the true meaning of the word "it" as referring to the weather. After one panel of this the management calls for security again.

In the title text, the news station has made the same error again, by this time hiring a software developer as the third meteorologist. This last person is stating concerns about the feasibility of the time system used to correlate to the weather patterns. Because it appears simple, many people would simply assume they understand what is being said when a meteorologist talks about "12pm" or "1pm". However, because software developers frequently have to deal with things such as specifying exactly what time-label means what, the new meteorologist begins to wonder wonder what time period is actually meant on a per-hour forecast. On such an hour forecast does 12pm refer to the hour from 12 to 1pm, from 11:30 to 12:30 or is it actually only to the weather precisely at 12:00 that is referred to? The software developer also worries about an off-by-one error, which is a common error in software development: when counting by 24 once every set period (for example), it is common to forget whether the count should stop at 23 or at 24, especially if the number 0 (midnight) is included. In the 24-hour forecast, that means there's 25 hours represented every day, and the software developer worries that these 25 hours might add up and, every progressive day, the forecast is one more hour off.

== Answering the Comic's Questions ==

Management would certainly answer the mathematician's questions! The questions themselves have been asked of meteorologists before, and NOAA has published relevant answers for [https://www.weather.gov/ffc/pop probability of precipitation], as well as [https://www.weather.gov/bgm/forecast_terms timing and the meanings of particular forecast words]. The naming is also addressed [https://www.weather.gov/media/ajk/brochures/ConvectivevsStratiform.pdf here].

Regarding probability of precipitation, NOAA forecasts give the probability that it will rain at all at any given point in an area. To rephrase it, it is the probability of rain occurring '''at all''' within a forecast area, multiplied by the percentage of area affected by the rain. The "forecast area" is a clearly defined area of land and can be seen in the map of any official National Weather Service forecast. [https://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=34.0732&lon=-118.3963 Here is an example].

Regarding the timing of the forecast, an hourly forecast gives the probability for each particular hour, stretching from the time listed to right before the next hour listed. So, the forecast for 12 PM describes the time period from 12 PM to 1 PM. The forecasts for individual hours can be correlated; for this reason, the NOAA generates forecasts that stretch over longer time periods, giving a useful estimate for that time range. Thus, the chance of rain for "Today" specifically means: what is the chance of it raining at any given location during any time between 6 AM and 6 PM?

Regarding phrases like "scattered showers", this specifically means a 25-54% probability of precipitation from convective cloud sources. Other phrases, and when they are used, are detailed in [https://www.weather.gov/media/ajk/brochures/ConvectivevsStratiform.pdf the chart at the end of this PDF].

So, to conclude:

* "How likely is it to rain this afternoon?" We don't know, you need to show the 12 PM - 6 PM forecast, not the hourly.
* "Is each hour independant? Correlated?" Hourly values are given for that hour only. They can be correlated, hence why they can't be used to calculate the answer to "How likely is it to rain this afternoon?"
* "Is rain guaranteed and we're just unsure of the timing?" It's not guaranteed for any individual spot or time. It's still probabilistic.
* "It says 'scattered showers.' Is this the chance of rain '''somewhere''' in your area?" Yes, it is, and it means the the rain will come from convective cloud sources with a probability of precipitation somewhere between 25 and 54%.
* "How big is your area?" It's detailed in the forecast the mathematician would be reading from.
* "What if you have two locations you're worried about?" You would check two separate forecasts, one for each area.
* "Hey, when we say 12pm, does that mean the hour from 12pm to 1pm, or the hour centered on 12pm? Or is it a snapshot at 12:00 exactly?" It means the hour from 12pm to 1pm.

==Transcript==

:[Cueball is presenting a weather forecast while seated with his arms resting on a table. The graphic to the left of Cueball shows five hours from 12pm to 4pm, each with a rainy cloud icon and the figure 20%. The "News 4 Weather" logo is shown on the bottom left.]
:Cueball: Our forecast says there's a 20% chance of rain for each of the next five hours.
:Cueball: How likely is it to rain this afternoon? It's a simple question, but I don't know the answer. Is each hour independent? Correlated? Or is rain guaranteed and we're just unsure of the timing?

:Cueball: It says "scattered showers." Is this the chance of rain '''''somewhere''''' in your area? How big is your area? What if you have two locations you're worried about?
:Cueball: I've asked management, but they've stopped answering my emails, so—hang on, the security guy is coming over.

:[A black screen is shown with white text:]
:''Technical Difficulties''
:—
:''We apologize for hiring a meteorologist with a pure math background.''
:—
:''We'll be back on the air shortly.''
:
:News 4

:[Cueball is replaced with Blondie.]
:Blondie: Sorry about that. Hi, I'm your new meteorologist.
:Off-panel voice: And you're not a mathematician, right?
:Blondie: No. I do have a linguistics degree.
:Off-panel voice: That's fine.

:Blondie: It might rain this afternoon.
:Blondie: But what is "it" here? Is it a true dummy pronoun, as in the phrase "It's too bad?" Or is the weather an entity?
:Blondie: Also, what if I say, "It's hot out, and getting bigger?"
:Off-panel voice: Security!

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Blondie]]
[[Category:News anchor]]

Talk:1985: Meteorologist

2018-04-26T01:41:58Z

Jeudi Violist: fixing

I’ve wondered about this (from both the math and software development perspectives anyway, not the linguist), so I look forward to seeing some actual answers as the explanation gets filled in :) [[User:PotatoGod|PotatoGod]] ([[User talk:PotatoGod|talk]]) 16:36, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
: The weather service has a [https://www.weather.gov/ffc/pop nice explanation] of this. After reading it you come away understanding that the percentage chance is... still almost impossible to discern :) {{unsigned ip|172.68.189.205}}

I really liked this one. I don't know why though. [[User:Linker|Linker]] ([[User talk:Linker|talk]]) 17:35, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

: Yep - all three of the 'experts' express problems that I have with every single weather forecast. It gets worse though. Our local TV station uses a rotating 3D graphic of downtown Austin where the shadows of the buildings flicker violently as it rotates - they've been doing this for YEARS. I'm a 3D computer graphics professional and I know PRECISELY why that is happening (they are rendering the back-faces of the building polygons in the shadow rendering pass instead of the front-faces...trust me on this one!)...I could fix the bug with ONE LINE OF CODE - and I bet I could find and fix it within 20 minutes if left alone with the source code. But when I call them and BEG to be allowed t...'''SECURITY!!!''' [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 17:36, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

; Randall
: wonders about something and puts it in an xkcd comic.
; Explainxkcd participants
: answer Randall's questions for him (and all of his readers).
—[[User:TobyBartels|TobyBartels]] ([[User talk:TobyBartels|talk]]) 20:52, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

Am I allowed to be slightly offended by the suggestion that "information being conveyed is to people, who would probably be able to interpret it easily"? Okay, I'm a software engineer, but even if I weren't I'd still not know whether the report system defines "12:00" as "in the period between 12:00 and 13:00" or "between 11:30 and 12:30". I usually wonder, but get so many variants of weather reports exposed to me that I can't be bothered to check which arbitrary decision any given one has made, and whether they all agree. A software engineer might instantly spot the ambiguity, but it affects everyone. [[User:Fluppeteer|Fluppeteer]] ([[User talk:Fluppeteer|talk]]) 23:58, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
:Clearly, what that sentence is trying to convey is that software developers are no longer considered "people" - since, you know, everyone knows that software developers have actually been replaced by robots. ;p
:I agree that that section is pretty poorly worded (in more ways than one) and was likely written by somebody quickly trying to get as much explanation out as possible so that future people could fix it. So, I'm going to see if I can fix that sentence and the surrounding section. [[User:Jeudi Violist|Jeudi Violist]] ([[User talk:Jeudi Violist|talk]]) 01:40, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

Talk:1985: Meteorologist

2018-04-26T01:40:01Z

Jeudi Violist:

I’ve wondered about this (from both the math and software development perspectives anyway, not the linguist), so I look forward to seeing some actual answers as the explanation gets filled in :) [[User:PotatoGod|PotatoGod]] ([[User talk:PotatoGod|talk]]) 16:36, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
: The weather service has a [https://www.weather.gov/ffc/pop nice explanation] of this. After reading it you come away understanding that the percentage chance is... still almost impossible to discern :) {{unsigned ip|172.68.189.205}}

I really liked this one. I don't know why though. [[User:Linker|Linker]] ([[User talk:Linker|talk]]) 17:35, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

: Yep - all three of the 'experts' express problems that I have with every single weather forecast. It gets worse though. Our local TV station uses a rotating 3D graphic of downtown Austin where the shadows of the buildings flicker violently as it rotates - they've been doing this for YEARS. I'm a 3D computer graphics professional and I know PRECISELY why that is happening (they are rendering the back-faces of the building polygons in the shadow rendering pass instead of the front-faces...trust me on this one!)...I could fix the bug with ONE LINE OF CODE - and I bet I could find and fix it within 20 minutes if left alone with the source code. But when I call them and BEG to be allowed t...'''SECURITY!!!''' [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 17:36, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

; Randall
: wonders about something and puts it in an xkcd comic.
; Explainxkcd participants
: answer Randall's questions for him (and all of his readers).
—[[User:TobyBartels|TobyBartels]] ([[User talk:TobyBartels|talk]]) 20:52, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

Am I allowed to be slightly offended by the suggestion that "information being conveyed is to people, who would probably be able to interpret it easily"? Okay, I'm a software engineer, but even if I weren't I'd still not know whether the report system defines "12:00" as "in the period between 12:00 and 13:00" or "between 11:30 and 12:30". I usually wonder, but get so many variants of weather reports exposed to me that I can't be bothered to check which arbitrary decision any given one has made, and whether they all agree. A software engineer might instantly spot the ambiguity, but it affects everyone. [[User:Fluppeteer|Fluppeteer]] ([[User talk:Fluppeteer|talk]]) 23:58, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
:Clearly, what that sentence is trying to convey is that software engineers are no longer considered "people" - since, you know, everyone knows that software engineers have actually been replaced by robots. ;p
:I agree that that section is pretty poorly worded and was likely written by somebody quickly trying to get as much explanation out as possible so that future people could fix it. So, I'm going to see if I can fix that sentence and the surrounding section. [[User:Jeudi Violist|Jeudi Violist]] ([[User talk:Jeudi Violist|talk]]) 01:40, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

1985: Meteorologist

2018-04-25T23:11:06Z

Jeudi Violist: /* Explanation */ Off-by-one Error

{{comic
| number = 1985
| date = April 25, 2018
| title = Meteorologist
| image = meteorologist.png
| titletext = Hi, I'm your new meteorologist and a former software developer. Hey, when we say 12pm, does that mean the hour from 12pm to 1pm, or the hour centered on 12pm? Or is it a snapshot at 12:00 exactly? Because our 24-hour forecast has midnight at both ends, and I'm worried we have an off-by-one error.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by an OVERLY ANALYTICAL METEOROLOGIST. More on Cueballs 2nd panel. More on Blondie's linguistics. Explanation for {{w|dummy pronoun}}. Title text: What is "an {{w|off-by-one error}}"?. Wiki links. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

Although we’re constantly exposed to them, many (most?) people don’t understand the details of how to properly interpret weather forecasts. This comic takes this to the ridiculous extreme of the weather reporters themselves not understanding, and asking questions about it while on-air. It shows questions asked by three different people with different backgrounds: mathematics, linguistics, and (in the title text) software development. In addition, many terms and numbers used by weather forecasters have very technical definitions and usages; however, because they are used so commonly (whenever someone tells us the weather), it is easy to assume we understand what it means. This comic also points at this fact by asking clarifying questions about subjects that meteorologists know but the average person doesn't (such as the definition of "scattered showers" and how it's determined, what a "chance of rain" means, and so on).

The first meteorologist, [[Cueball]], has a background in pure math. His forecast states that each of the next five hours has a 20% chance of rain. It could be that rain was certain, but it would only last about an hour and will come within the next five hours. That would give 20% for rain in each hour but certainty of rain within those hours. This corresponds to his last question in the first panel.

But before that he focuses on probability when he asks if each hour is independent or correlated. If each hour were independent, there would have been a 67.232% chance to rain at least once. However, if the hours had been correlated, the chance would be less, since if it didn't rain in the first hour, it would decrease the chance of rain in the next hours. However, it would make it more likely of raining in all 5 hours, as it would be a .032% chance if it wasn't correlated. But if it was correlated, rain in the first hour would make it more likely to rain in the subsequent hours.

In the second panel he continues to discuss what scattered showers means. Like most of the other weather terms in this comic, the term "scattered showers" is one whose technical definition is largely unknown but appears simple enough that most people would assume they understand what it means. "Scattered" refers to when the rain covers roughly 30% to 50% of the area. To somebody who doesn't know this, like the first meteorologist, there's still the very valid question of how likely it is to rain in a specific spot, and how this is affected by the previous chance of rain. Not to mention, the percentage that defines "scattered showers" implicitly assumes a surface area that is accounted into the percent. Cueball rightly asks clarification on how large the location used to determine "scattered showers" is.

Finally in that panel Cueball begins to explain that he has asked the management about these things, but that they have stopped replying to his e-mails. At this point he spots the security guy coming over, and the screen goes black in to a technical difficulty screen that excuses this behavior to the viewers.

Questioning these things on air is likely confusing to the watchers, although they are all valid questions. But this may lose viewers and the news network is afraid of this. The technical difficulty panel further cements this, apologizing for hiring a person with a pure math background. Often seen as one that do not understand how to talk to regular people.

When they get back on air gain a new meteorologist, [[Blondie]], steps in. The management enquirers (on air) to make sure she is not also a mathematician. She states no, but tells that she has a linguistics degree, which the management thinks is fine, and thus believes they have prevented the problem with Cueball. However, this proves to be in vain, as Blondie goes into a tangent once more but from a linguistics standpoint, rather than a mathematical one, detailing the true meaning of the word "it" as referring to the weather. After one panel of this the management calls for security again.

In the title text, the news station has made the same error again, by this time hiring a software developer as the third meteorologist. This last person is stating concerns about the feasibility of the time system used to correlate to the weather patterns. This, however, is of no concern; the information being conveyed is to people, who would probably be able to interpret it easily. But again the question is valid... On such an hour forecast does 12pm refer to the hour from 12 to 1pm, from 11:30 to 12:30 or is it actually only to the weather precisely at 12:00 that is referred to? The software developer also worries about an off-by-one error, which is a common error in software development: when counting by 24 once every set period (for example), it is common to forget whether the count should stop at 23 or at 24, especially if the number 0 (midnight) is included. In the 24-hour forecast, that means there's 25 hours represented every day, and the software developer worries that these 25 hours might add up and, every progressive day, the forecast is one more hour off.

== Answering the Comic's Questions ==

Management would certainly answer the mathematician's questions! The questions themselves have been asked of meteorologists before, and NOAA has published relevant answers for [https://www.weather.gov/ffc/pop probability of precipitation], as well as [https://www.weather.gov/bgm/forecast_terms timing and the meanings of particular forecast words]. The naming is also addressed [https://www.weather.gov/media/ajk/brochures/ConvectivevsStratiform.pdf here].

Regarding probability of precipitation, NOAA forecasts give the probability that it will rain at all at any given point in an area. To rephrase it, it is the probability of rain occurring '''at all''' within a forecast area, multiplied by the percentage of area affected by the rain. The "forecast area" is a clearly defined area of land and can be seen in the map of any official National Weather Service forecast. [https://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=34.0732&lon=-118.3963 Here is an example].

Regarding the timing of the forecast, an hourly forecast gives the probability for each particular hour, stretching from the time listed to right before the next hour listed. So, the forecast for 12 PM describes the time period from 12 PM to 1 PM. The forecasts for individual hours can be correlated; for this reason, the NOAA generates forecasts that stretch over longer time periods, giving a useful estimate for that time range. Thus, the chance of rain for "Today" specifically means: what is the chance of it raining at any given location during any time between 6 AM and 6 PM?

Regarding phrases like "scattered showers", this specifically means a 25-54% probability of precipitation from convective cloud sources. Other phrases, and when they are used, are detailed in [https://www.weather.gov/media/ajk/brochures/ConvectivevsStratiform.pdf the chart at the end of this PDF].

So, to conclude:

* "How likely is it to rain this afternoon?" We don't know, you need to show the 12 PM - 6 PM forecast, not the hourly.
* "Is each hour independant? Correlated?" Hourly values are given for that hour only. They can be correlated, hence why they can't be used to calculate the answer to "How likely is it to rain this afternoon?"
* "Is rain guaranteed and we're just unsure of the timing?" It's not guaranteed for any individual spot or time. It's still probabilistic.
* "It says 'scattered showers.' Is this the chance of rain '''somewhere''' in your area?" Yes, it is, and it means the the rain will come from convective cloud sources with a probability of precipitation somewhere between 25 and 54%.
* "How big is your area?" It's detailed in the forecast the mathematician would be reading from.
* "What if you have two locations you're worried about?" You would check two separate forecasts, one for each area.
* "Hey, when we say 12pm, does that mean the hour from 12pm to 1pm, or the hour centered on 12pm? Or is it a snapshot at 12:00 exactly?" It means the hour from 12pm to 1pm.

==Transcript==

:[Cueball is presenting a weather forecast while seated with his arms resting on a table. The graphic to the left of Cueball shows five hours from 12pm to 4pm, each with a rainy cloud icon and the figure 20%. The "News 4 Weather" logo is shown on the bottom left.]
:Cueball: Our forecast says there's a 20% chance of rain for each of the next five hours.
:Cueball: How likely is it to rain this afternoon? It's a simple question, but I don't know the answer. Is each hour independent? Correlated? Or is rain guaranteed and we're just unsure of the timing?

:Cueball: It says "scattered showers." Is this the chance of rain '''''somewhere''''' in your area? How big is your area? What if you have two locations you're worried about?
:Cueball: I've asked management, but they've stopped answering my emails, so—hang on, the security guy is coming over.

:[A black screen is shown with white text:]
:''Technical Difficulties''
:—
:''We apologize for hiring a meteorologist with a pure math background.''
:—
:''We'll be back on the air shortly.''
:
:News 4

:[Cueball is replaced with Blondie.]
:Blondie: Sorry about that. Hi, I'm your new meteorologist.
:Off-panel voice: And you're not a mathematician, right?
:Blondie: No. I do have a linguistics degree.
:Off-panel voice: That's fine.

:Blondie: It might rain this afternoon.
:Blondie: But what is "it" here? Is it a true dummy pronoun, as in the phrase "It's too bad?" Or is the weather an entity?
:Blondie: Also, what if I say, "It's hot out, and getting bigger?"
:Off-panel voice: Security!

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Blondie]]
[[Category:News anchor]]

1985: Meteorologist

2018-04-25T22:57:19Z

Jeudi Violist: /* Explanation */ minor correction

{{comic
| number = 1985
| date = April 25, 2018
| title = Meteorologist
| image = meteorologist.png
| titletext = Hi, I'm your new meteorologist and a former software developer. Hey, when we say 12pm, does that mean the hour from 12pm to 1pm, or the hour centered on 12pm? Or is it a snapshot at 12:00 exactly? Because our 24-hour forecast has midnight at both ends, and I'm worried we have an off-by-one error.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by an OVERLY ANALYTICAL METEOROLOGIST. More on Cueballs 2nd panel. More on Blondie's linguistics. Explanation for {{w|dummy pronoun}}. Title text: What is "an {{w|off-by-one error}}"?. Wiki links. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

Although we’re constantly exposed to them, many (most?) people don’t understand the details of how to properly interpret weather forecasts. This comic takes this to the ridiculous extreme of the weather reporters themselves not understanding, and asking questions about it while on-air. It shows questions asked by three different people with different backgrounds: mathematics, linguistics, and (in the title text) software development.

The first meteorologist, [[Cueball]], has a background in pure math. His forecast states that each of the next five hours has a 20% chance of rain. It could be that rain was certain, but it would only last about an hour and will come within the next five hours. That would give 20% for rain in each hour but certainty of rain within those hours. This corresponds to his last question in the first panel.

But before that he focuses on probability when he asks if each hour is independent or correlated. If each hour were independent, there would have been a 67.232% chance to rain at least once. However, if the hours had been correlated, the chance would be less, since if it didn't rain in the first hour, it would decrease the chance of rain in the next hours. However, it would make it more likely of raining in all 5 hours, as it would be a .032% chance if it wasn't correlated. But if it was correlated, rain in the first hour would make it more likely to rain in the subsequent hours.

In the second panel he continues to discuss what scattered showers means. Like most of the other weather terms in this comic, the term "scattered showers" is one whose technical definition is largely unknown but appears simple enough that most people would assume they understand what it means. "Scattered" refers to when the rain covers roughly 30% to 50% of the area. To somebody who doesn't know this, like the first meteorologist, there's still the very valid question of how likely it is to rain in a specific spot, and how this is affected by the previous chance of rain. Not to mention, the percentage that defines "scattered showers" implicitly assumes a surface area that is accounted into the percent. Cueball rightly asks clarification on how large the location used to determine "scattered showers" is.

Finally in that panel Cueball begins to explain that he has asked the management about these things, but that they have stopped replying to his e-mails. At this point he spots the security guy coming over, and the screen goes black in to a technical difficulty screen that excuses this behavior to the viewers.

Questioning these things on air is likely confusing to the watchers, although they are all valid questions. But this may lose viewers and the news network is afraid of this. The technical difficulty panel further cements this, apologizing for hiring a person with a pure math background. Often seen as one that do not understand how to talk to regular people.

When they get back on air gain a new meteorologist, [[Blondie]], steps in. The management enquirers (on air) to make sure she is not also a mathematician. She states no, but tells that she has a linguistics degree, which the management thinks is fine, and thus believes they have prevented the problem with Cueball. However, this proves to be in vain, as Blondie goes into a tangent once more but from a linguistics standpoint, rather than a mathematical one, detailing the true meaning of the word "it" as referring to the weather. After one panel of this the management calls for security again.

In the title text, the news station has made the same error again, by this time hiring a software developer as the third meteorologist. This last person is stating concerns about the feasibility of the time system used to correlate to the weather patterns. This, however, is of no concern; the information being conveyed is to people, who would probably be able to interpret it easily. But again the question is valid... On such an hour forecast does 12pm refer to the hour from 12 to 1pm, from 11:30 to 12:30 or is it actually only to the weather precisely at 12:00 that is referred to?

== Answering the Comic's Questions ==

Management would certainly answer the mathematician's questions! The questions themselves have been asked of meteorologists before, and NOAA has published relevant answers for [https://www.weather.gov/ffc/pop probability of precipitation], as well as [https://www.weather.gov/bgm/forecast_terms timing and the meanings of particular forecast words]. The naming is also addressed [https://www.weather.gov/media/ajk/brochures/ConvectivevsStratiform.pdf here].

Regarding probability of precipitation, NOAA forecasts give the probability that it will rain at all at any given point in an area. To rephrase it, it is the probability of rain occurring '''at all''' within a forecast area, multiplied by the percentage of area affected by the rain. The "forecast area" is a clearly defined area of land and can be seen in the map of any official National Weather Service forecast. [https://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=34.0732&lon=-118.3963 Here is an example].

Regarding the timing of the forecast, an hourly forecast gives the probability for each particular hour, stretching from the time listed to right before the next hour listed. So, the forecast for 12 PM describes the time period from 12 PM to 1 PM. The forecasts for individual hours can be correlated; for this reason, the NOAA generates forecasts that stretch over longer time periods, giving a useful estimate for that time range. Thus, the chance of rain for "Today" specifically means: what is the chance of it raining at any given location during any time between 6 AM and 6 PM?

Regarding phrases like "scattered showers", this specifically means a 25-54% probability of precipitation from convective cloud sources. Other phrases, and when they are used, are detailed in [https://www.weather.gov/media/ajk/brochures/ConvectivevsStratiform.pdf the chart at the end of this PDF].

So, to conclude:

* "How likely is it to rain this afternoon?" We don't know, you need to show the 12 PM - 6 PM forecast, not the hourly.
* "Is each hour independant? Correlated?" Hourly values are given for that hour only. They can be correlated, hence why they can't be used to calculate the answer to "How likely is it to rain this afternoon?"
* "Is rain guaranteed and we're just unsure of the timing?" It's not guaranteed for any individual spot or time. It's still probabilistic.
* "It says 'scattered showers.' Is this the chance of rain '''somewhere''' in your area?" Yes, it is, and it means the the rain will come from convective cloud sources with a probability of precipitation somewhere between 25 and 54%.
* "How big is your area?" It's detailed in the forecast the mathematician would be reading from.
* "What if you have two locations you're worried about?" You would check two separate forecasts, one for each area.
* "Hey, when we say 12pm, does that mean the hour from 12pm to 1pm, or the hour centered on 12pm? Or is it a snapshot at 12:00 exactly?" It means the hour from 12pm to 1pm.

==Transcript==

:[Cueball is presenting a weather forecast while seated with his arms resting on a table. The graphic to the left of Cueball shows five hours from 12pm to 4pm, each with a rainy cloud icon and the figure 20%. The "News 4 Weather" logo is shown on the bottom left.]
:Cueball: Our forecast says there's a 20% chance of rain for each of the next five hours.
:Cueball: How likely is it to rain this afternoon? It's a simple question, but I don't know the answer. Is each hour independent? Correlated? Or is rain guaranteed and we're just unsure of the timing?

:Cueball: It says "scattered showers." Is this the chance of rain '''''somewhere''''' in your area? How big is your area? What if you have two locations you're worried about?
:Cueball: I've asked management, but they've stopped answering my emails, so—hang on, the security guy is coming over.

:[A black screen is shown with white text:]
:''Technical Difficulties''
:—
:''We apologize for hiring a meteorologist with a pure math background.''
:—
:''We'll be back on the air shortly.''
:
:News 4

:[Cueball is replaced with Blondie.]
:Blondie: Sorry about that. Hi, I'm your new meteorologist.
:Off-panel voice: And you're not a mathematician, right?
:Blondie: No. I do have a linguistics degree.
:Off-panel voice: That's fine.

:Blondie: It might rain this afternoon.
:Blondie: But what is "it" here? Is it a true dummy pronoun, as in the phrase "It's too bad?" Or is the weather an entity?
:Blondie: Also, what if I say, "It's hot out, and getting bigger?"
:Off-panel voice: Security!

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Blondie]]
[[Category:News anchor]]

1985: Meteorologist

2018-04-25T22:56:21Z

Jeudi Violist: /* Explanation */ Scattered showers; saving page now in case somebody else wants to edit.

{{comic
| number = 1985
| date = April 25, 2018
| title = Meteorologist
| image = meteorologist.png
| titletext = Hi, I'm your new meteorologist and a former software developer. Hey, when we say 12pm, does that mean the hour from 12pm to 1pm, or the hour centered on 12pm? Or is it a snapshot at 12:00 exactly? Because our 24-hour forecast has midnight at both ends, and I'm worried we have an off-by-one error.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by an OVERLY ANALYTICAL METEOROLOGIST. More on Cueballs 2nd panel. More on Blondie's linguistics. Explanation for {{w|dummy pronoun}}. Title text: What is "an {{w|off-by-one error}}"?. Wiki links. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

Although we’re constantly exposed to them, many (most?) people don’t understand the details of how to properly interpret weather forecasts. This comic takes this to the ridiculous extreme of the weather reporters themselves not understanding, and asking questions about it while on-air. It shows questions asked by three different people with different backgrounds: mathematics, linguistics, and (in the title text) software development.

The first meteorologist, [[Cueball]], has a background in pure math. His forecast states that each of the next five hours has a 20% chance of rain. It could be that rain was certain, but it would only last about an hour and will come within the next five hours. That would give 20% for rain in each hour but certainty of rain within those hours. This corresponds to his last question in the first panel.

But before that he focuses on probability when he asks if each hour is independent or correlated. If each hour were independent, there would have been a 67.232% chance to rain at least once. However, if the hours had been correlated, the chance would be less, since if it didn't rain in the first hour, it would decrease the chance of rain in the next hours. However, it would make it more likely of raining in all 5 hours, as it would be a .032% chance if it wasn't correlated. But if it was correlated, rain in the first hour would make it more likely to rain in the subsequent hours.

In the second panel he continues to discuss what scattered showers means. Like most of the other weather terms in this comic, the term "scattered showers" is one whose technical definition is largely unknown but appears simple enough that most people would assume they understand what it means. "Scattered" refers to when the rain covers 30% to 50% of the area. To somebody who doesn't know this, like the first meteorologist, there's still the very valid question of how likely it is to rain in a specific spot, and how this is affected by the previous chance of rain. Not to mention, the percentage that defines "scattered showers" implicitly assumes a surface area that is accounted into the percent. Cueball rightly asks clarification on how large the location used to determine "scattered showers" is.

Finally in that panel Cueball begins to explain that he has asked the management about these things, but that they have stopped replying to his e-mails. At this point he spots the security guy coming over, and the screen goes black in to a technical difficulty screen that excuses this behavior to the viewers.

Questioning these things on air is likely confusing to the watchers, although they are all valid questions. But this may lose viewers and the news network is afraid of this. The technical difficulty panel further cements this, apologizing for hiring a person with a pure math background. Often seen as one that do not understand how to talk to regular people.

When they get back on air gain a new meteorologist, [[Blondie]], steps in. The management enquirers (on air) to make sure she is not also a mathematician. She states no, but tells that she has a linguistics degree, which the management thinks is fine, and thus believes they have prevented the problem with Cueball. However, this proves to be in vain, as Blondie goes into a tangent once more but from a linguistics standpoint, rather than a mathematical one, detailing the true meaning of the word "it" as referring to the weather. After one panel of this the management calls for security again.

In the title text, the news station has made the same error again, by this time hiring a software developer as the third meteorologist. This last person is stating concerns about the feasibility of the time system used to correlate to the weather patterns. This, however, is of no concern; the information being conveyed is to people, who would probably be able to interpret it easily. But again the question is valid... On such an hour forecast does 12pm refer to the hour from 12 to 1pm, from 11:30 to 12:30 or is it actually only to the weather precisely at 12:00 that is referred to?

== Answering the Comic's Questions ==

Management would certainly answer the mathematician's questions! The questions themselves have been asked of meteorologists before, and NOAA has published relevant answers for [https://www.weather.gov/ffc/pop probability of precipitation], as well as [https://www.weather.gov/bgm/forecast_terms timing and the meanings of particular forecast words]. The naming is also addressed [https://www.weather.gov/media/ajk/brochures/ConvectivevsStratiform.pdf here].

Regarding probability of precipitation, NOAA forecasts give the probability that it will rain at all at any given point in an area. To rephrase it, it is the probability of rain occurring '''at all''' within a forecast area, multiplied by the percentage of area affected by the rain. The "forecast area" is a clearly defined area of land and can be seen in the map of any official National Weather Service forecast. [https://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=34.0732&lon=-118.3963 Here is an example].

Regarding the timing of the forecast, an hourly forecast gives the probability for each particular hour, stretching from the time listed to right before the next hour listed. So, the forecast for 12 PM describes the time period from 12 PM to 1 PM. The forecasts for individual hours can be correlated; for this reason, the NOAA generates forecasts that stretch over longer time periods, giving a useful estimate for that time range. Thus, the chance of rain for "Today" specifically means: what is the chance of it raining at any given location during any time between 6 AM and 6 PM?

Regarding phrases like "scattered showers", this specifically means a 25-54% probability of precipitation from convective cloud sources. Other phrases, and when they are used, are detailed in [https://www.weather.gov/media/ajk/brochures/ConvectivevsStratiform.pdf the chart at the end of this PDF].

So, to conclude:

* "How likely is it to rain this afternoon?" We don't know, you need to show the 12 PM - 6 PM forecast, not the hourly.
* "Is each hour independant? Correlated?" Hourly values are given for that hour only. They can be correlated, hence why they can't be used to calculate the answer to "How likely is it to rain this afternoon?"
* "Is rain guaranteed and we're just unsure of the timing?" It's not guaranteed for any individual spot or time. It's still probabilistic.
* "It says 'scattered showers.' Is this the chance of rain '''somewhere''' in your area?" Yes, it is, and it means the the rain will come from convective cloud sources with a probability of precipitation somewhere between 25 and 54%.
* "How big is your area?" It's detailed in the forecast the mathematician would be reading from.
* "What if you have two locations you're worried about?" You would check two separate forecasts, one for each area.
* "Hey, when we say 12pm, does that mean the hour from 12pm to 1pm, or the hour centered on 12pm? Or is it a snapshot at 12:00 exactly?" It means the hour from 12pm to 1pm.

==Transcript==

:[Cueball is presenting a weather forecast while seated with his arms resting on a table. The graphic to the left of Cueball shows five hours from 12pm to 4pm, each with a rainy cloud icon and the figure 20%. The "News 4 Weather" logo is shown on the bottom left.]
:Cueball: Our forecast says there's a 20% chance of rain for each of the next five hours.
:Cueball: How likely is it to rain this afternoon? It's a simple question, but I don't know the answer. Is each hour independent? Correlated? Or is rain guaranteed and we're just unsure of the timing?

:Cueball: It says "scattered showers." Is this the chance of rain '''''somewhere''''' in your area? How big is your area? What if you have two locations you're worried about?
:Cueball: I've asked management, but they've stopped answering my emails, so—hang on, the security guy is coming over.

:[A black screen is shown with white text:]
:''Technical Difficulties''
:—
:''We apologize for hiring a meteorologist with a pure math background.''
:—
:''We'll be back on the air shortly.''
:
:News 4

:[Cueball is replaced with Blondie.]
:Blondie: Sorry about that. Hi, I'm your new meteorologist.
:Off-panel voice: And you're not a mathematician, right?
:Blondie: No. I do have a linguistics degree.
:Off-panel voice: That's fine.

:Blondie: It might rain this afternoon.
:Blondie: But what is "it" here? Is it a true dummy pronoun, as in the phrase "It's too bad?" Or is the weather an entity?
:Blondie: Also, what if I say, "It's hot out, and getting bigger?"
:Off-panel voice: Security!

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Blondie]]
[[Category:News anchor]]

1357: Free Speech

2018-04-25T22:46:41Z

Jeudi Violist: /* Explanation */ Clarified a sentence, making it more broadly applicable but also slightly changing the meaning

{{comic
| number = 1357
| date = April 18, 2014
| title = Free Speech
| image = free_speech.png
| titletext = I can't remember where I heard this, but someone once said that defending a position by citing free speech is sort of the ultimate concession; you're saying that the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it's not literally illegal to express.
}}

==Explanation==
Both on the Internet and in the physical world, people with unpopular or poorly thought out opinions may complain that their freedom of speech is being restricted because others express their distaste for those opinions. As a defense, these individuals may invoke the {{w|First Amendment to the United States Constitution}}, which provides, among other things, {{w|freedom of speech}} for any entity or person under legal jurisdiction of the U.S. More specifically, it states that "Congress shall make no law [...] abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press". Originally intended as a restriction on the powers of U.S. federal government, which the Constitution defines, structures, and delimits, over time the First Amendment, as well as several others, were "incorporated" via the {{w|Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution|Fourteenth Amendment}} to apply to state and local governments as well. This protection of free speech, however, does not extend to illegal activities (for example, the concept of a "clear and present danger"), and it does not compel others to listen to or acknowledge the speech. The intended targets of the speech may simply choose to stop listening, or to speak louder in protest.

An example of this is the incident involving the TV program ''{{w|Duck Dynasty}}'' in December 2013, in which television network {{w|A+E Networks}} [http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/12/18/duck-dynasty-robertson-phil/?hpt=hp_t2 suspended the host after he made homophobic remarks], causing some to comment that his rights had been infringed upon. Similarly in April 2014 [http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-26895858 controversy erupted when Brendan Eich was forced to resign] as CEO of {{w|Mozilla Corporation|Mozilla}} because it was revealed he had donated money to anti-gay marriage efforts in California. In actuality, the First Amendment was never meant to provide immunity from any and all consequences.

[[Cueball]], representing [[Randall]], is addressing anyone who has used this argument. As the comic says, just because you're legally allowed to say something doesn't mean that everyone is legally required to listen. It also does not mean that a commercial or social entity—such as a TV network, a website, or its community—is legally required to support you in spreading your message, even if it had supported you in the past. If someone says something which others find stupid or offensive, he or she should be ready to accept the consequences of others responses, regardless of who is right, or whose idea is more popular.

The title text points out the irony of anyone appealing to free speech as a defense for their argument or opinion. If the only thing that someone can say in support of an argument is effectively that it is not ''illegal'', then {{w|Damning with faint praise|they are severely undermining it}} by essentially admitting that they don't have any better defense for it.

It should be noted that the first panel of this comic conflates, under certain schools of thought about justice and rights, a right such as free speech and the legal protections of such. Many viewpoints consider rights to be granted by the government; others consider rights to be innate regardless of what the government does. The former is frequently reflected throughout governments in Europe while the latter is more common throughout the Americas. According to the former, the first panel is technically correct by definition, because the right of free speech is granted by the government's laws and, as such, can only affect the government's influence: thus, the 1st Amendment grants the right to free speech, which by definition cannot be restricted by congress. According to the latter, the first panel is strictly nonfactual because the 1st Amendment only recognizes that the right of free speech exists and, rather than delimiting the right, it instead proscribes the government's actions. However, between these two school of thought, the remaining panels aren't affected by whether or not the first panel is factual by definition.

==Transcript==
:Cueball: Public Service Announcement: The '''Right to Free Speech''' means the government can't arrest you for what you say.

:Cueball: It doesn't mean that anyone '''''else''''' has to listen to your bullshit, or host you while you share it.

:Cueball: The 1st amendment doesn't shield you from criticism or consequences.

:Cueball: If you're yelled at, boycotted, have your show canceled, or get banned from an Internet community, your free speech rights aren't being violated.

:Cueball: It's just that the people listening think you're an asshole,

:[A picture of a partially open door is displayed.]
:Cueball: And they're showing you the door.

==Trivia==
*One famous example of this is {{w|Schenck_v._United_States|Schenck v. United States}}, where the expression "{{w|shouting fire in a crowded theater}}" gave rise. The ruling went along with war hysteria to justify the conviction of peaceful protesters and had nothing to do with creating a dangerous situation or giving false information. Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes said in the ruling, "The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic." He later drastically revised his views and became a strong supporter of free speech.
*The {{w|Speakers' Corner}} at the Hyde Park in London is another example, everybody can hold a speech but there is no guarantee for a big auditorium.
*As currently construed by the courts, the First Amendment to the U. S. Constitution is not limited to preventing the government from arresting people. For example, the [http://www.scotusblog.com/2016/01/argument-preview-the-first-amendment-public-employment-and-misperceived-political-association/ SCOTUS Blog] notes that the government may not penalize employees, with some exceptions, on the basis of their political views.

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Politics]]

1357: Free Speech

2018-04-25T22:37:18Z

Jeudi Violist: /* Explanation */ correcting a minor thing

{{comic
| number = 1357
| date = April 18, 2014
| title = Free Speech
| image = free_speech.png
| titletext = I can't remember where I heard this, but someone once said that defending a position by citing free speech is sort of the ultimate concession; you're saying that the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it's not literally illegal to express.
}}

==Explanation==
Both on the Internet and in the physical world, people with unpopular or poorly thought out opinions may complain that their freedom of speech is being restricted because others express their distaste for those opinions. As a defense, these individuals may invoke the {{w|First Amendment to the United States Constitution}}, which provides, among other things, {{w|freedom of speech}} for any entity or person under legal jurisdiction of the U.S. More specifically, it states that "Congress shall make no law [...] abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press". Originally intended as a restriction on the powers of U.S. federal government, which the Constitution defines, structures, and delimits, over time the First Amendment, as well as several others, were "incorporated" via the {{w|Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution|Fourteenth Amendment}} to apply to state and local governments as well. This protection of free speech, however, does not extend to illegal activities (for example, the concept of a "clear and present danger"), and it does not compel others to listen to or acknowledge the speech. The intended targets of the speech may simply choose to stop listening, or to speak louder in protest.

An example of this is the incident involving the TV program ''{{w|Duck Dynasty}}'' in December 2013, in which television network {{w|A+E Networks}} [http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/12/18/duck-dynasty-robertson-phil/?hpt=hp_t2 suspended the host after he made homophobic remarks], causing some to comment that his rights had been infringed upon. Similarly in April 2014 [http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-26895858 controversy erupted when Brendan Eich was forced to resign] as CEO of {{w|Mozilla Corporation|Mozilla}} because it was revealed he had donated money to anti-gay marriage efforts in California. In actuality, the First Amendment was never meant to provide immunity from any and all consequences.

[[Cueball]], representing [[Randall]], is addressing anyone who has used this argument. As the comic says, just because you're legally allowed to say something doesn't mean that everyone is legally required to listen. It also does not mean that a commercial or social entity—such as a TV network, a website, or its community—is legally required to support you in spreading your message, even if it had supported you in the past. If someone says something which others find stupid or offensive, he or she should be ready to accept the consequences of others responses, regardless of who is right, or whose idea is more popular.

The title text points out the irony of anyone appealing to free speech as a defense for their argument or opinion. If the only thing that someone can say in support of an argument is effectively that it is not ''illegal'', then {{w|Damning with faint praise|they are severely undermining it}} by essentially admitting that they don't have any better defense for it.

It should be noted that the first panel of this comic conflates, under certain schools of thought about justice and rights, the right to free speech and the first amendment. Many viewpoints consider rights to be granted by the government; others consider rights to be innate regardless of what the government does. The former is frequently reflected throughout governments in Europe while the latter is more common throughout the Americas. According to the former, the first panel is technically correct by definition, because the right of free speech is granted by the government's laws and, as such, can only affect the government's influence: thus, the 1st Amendment grants the right to free speech, which by definition cannot be restricted by congress. According to the latter, the first panel is strictly nonfactual because the 1st Amendment only recognizes that the right of free speech exists and, rather than delimiting the right, it instead proscribes the government's actions. However, between these two school of thought, the remaining panels aren't affected by whether or not the first panel is factual by definition.

==Transcript==
:Cueball: Public Service Announcement: The '''Right to Free Speech''' means the government can't arrest you for what you say.

:Cueball: It doesn't mean that anyone '''''else''''' has to listen to your bullshit, or host you while you share it.

:Cueball: The 1st amendment doesn't shield you from criticism or consequences.

:Cueball: If you're yelled at, boycotted, have your show canceled, or get banned from an Internet community, your free speech rights aren't being violated.

:Cueball: It's just that the people listening think you're an asshole,

:[A picture of a partially open door is displayed.]
:Cueball: And they're showing you the door.

==Trivia==
*One famous example of this is {{w|Schenck_v._United_States|Schenck v. United States}}, where the expression "{{w|shouting fire in a crowded theater}}" gave rise. The ruling went along with war hysteria to justify the conviction of peaceful protesters and had nothing to do with creating a dangerous situation or giving false information. Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes said in the ruling, "The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic." He later drastically revised his views and became a strong supporter of free speech.
*The {{w|Speakers' Corner}} at the Hyde Park in London is another example, everybody can hold a speech but there is no guarantee for a big auditorium.
*As currently construed by the courts, the First Amendment to the U. S. Constitution is not limited to preventing the government from arresting people. For example, the [http://www.scotusblog.com/2016/01/argument-preview-the-first-amendment-public-employment-and-misperceived-political-association/ SCOTUS Blog] notes that the government may not penalize employees, with some exceptions, on the basis of their political views.

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Politics]]

1357: Free Speech

2018-04-25T22:35:17Z

Jeudi Violist: /* Explanation */ Common views of rights vs laws; Someone was talking to me about this earlier, so I decided to check this page to see if it was in included; It had been mentioned in the comment section but not in the comic description itself

{{comic
| number = 1357
| date = April 18, 2014
| title = Free Speech
| image = free_speech.png
| titletext = I can't remember where I heard this, but someone once said that defending a position by citing free speech is sort of the ultimate concession; you're saying that the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it's not literally illegal to express.
}}

==Explanation==
Both on the Internet and in the physical world, people with unpopular or poorly thought out opinions may complain that their freedom of speech is being restricted because others express their distaste for those opinions. As a defense, these individuals may invoke the {{w|First Amendment to the United States Constitution}}, which provides, among other things, {{w|freedom of speech}} for any entity or person under legal jurisdiction of the U.S. More specifically, it states that "Congress shall make no law [...] abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press". Originally intended as a restriction on the powers of U.S. federal government, which the Constitution defines, structures, and delimits, over time the First Amendment, as well as several others, were "incorporated" via the {{w|Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution|Fourteenth Amendment}} to apply to state and local governments as well. This protection of free speech, however, does not extend to illegal activities (for example, the concept of a "clear and present danger"), and it does not compel others to listen to or acknowledge the speech. The intended targets of the speech may simply choose to stop listening, or to speak louder in protest.

An example of this is the incident involving the TV program ''{{w|Duck Dynasty}}'' in December 2013, in which television network {{w|A+E Networks}} [http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/12/18/duck-dynasty-robertson-phil/?hpt=hp_t2 suspended the host after he made homophobic remarks], causing some to comment that his rights had been infringed upon. Similarly in April 2014 [http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-26895858 controversy erupted when Brendan Eich was forced to resign] as CEO of {{w|Mozilla Corporation|Mozilla}} because it was revealed he had donated money to anti-gay marriage efforts in California. In actuality, the First Amendment was never meant to provide immunity from any and all consequences.

[[Cueball]], representing [[Randall]], is addressing anyone who has used this argument. As the comic says, just because you're legally allowed to say something doesn't mean that everyone is legally required to listen. It also does not mean that a commercial or social entity—such as a TV network, a website, or its community—is legally required to support you in spreading your message, even if it had supported you in the past. If someone says something which others find stupid or offensive, he or she should be ready to accept the consequences of others responses, regardless of who is right, or whose idea is more popular.

The title text points out the irony of anyone appealing to free speech as a defense for their argument or opinion. If the only thing that someone can say in support of an argument is effectively that it is not ''illegal'', then {{w|Damning with faint praise|they are severely undermining it}} by essentially admitting that they don't have any better defense for it.

It should be noted that the first panel of this comic conflates, under certain schools of thought about justice and rights, the right to free speech and the first amendment. Many viewpoints consider rights to be granted by the government; others consider rights to be innate regardless of what the government does. The former is frequently reflected throughout governments in Europe while the latter is more common throughout the Americas. According to the former, the first panel is technically correct by definition, because the right of free speech is granted by the government's laws and, as such, can only affect the government's influence: thus, the 1st Amendment grants the right to free speech, which cannot be restricted by congress. According to the latter, the first panel is strictly nonfactual because the 1st Amendment only recognizes that the right of free speech exists and, rather than delimiting the right, it instead proscribes the government's actions. However, between these two school of thought, the remaining panels aren't affected by whether or not the first panel is factual by definition.

==Transcript==
:Cueball: Public Service Announcement: The '''Right to Free Speech''' means the government can't arrest you for what you say.

:Cueball: It doesn't mean that anyone '''''else''''' has to listen to your bullshit, or host you while you share it.

:Cueball: The 1st amendment doesn't shield you from criticism or consequences.

:Cueball: If you're yelled at, boycotted, have your show canceled, or get banned from an Internet community, your free speech rights aren't being violated.

:Cueball: It's just that the people listening think you're an asshole,

:[A picture of a partially open door is displayed.]
:Cueball: And they're showing you the door.

==Trivia==
*One famous example of this is {{w|Schenck_v._United_States|Schenck v. United States}}, where the expression "{{w|shouting fire in a crowded theater}}" gave rise. The ruling went along with war hysteria to justify the conviction of peaceful protesters and had nothing to do with creating a dangerous situation or giving false information. Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes said in the ruling, "The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic." He later drastically revised his views and became a strong supporter of free speech.
*The {{w|Speakers' Corner}} at the Hyde Park in London is another example, everybody can hold a speech but there is no guarantee for a big auditorium.
*As currently construed by the courts, the First Amendment to the U. S. Constitution is not limited to preventing the government from arresting people. For example, the [http://www.scotusblog.com/2016/01/argument-preview-the-first-amendment-public-employment-and-misperceived-political-association/ SCOTUS Blog] notes that the government may not penalize employees, with some exceptions, on the basis of their political views.

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Politics]]

Talk:1916: Temperature Preferences

2017-11-16T22:11:54Z

Jeudi Violist:

As someone who lives near San Fransisco, but has lived in multiple other climates, I can say, San Fransisco can be pretty cold during summer months (compared to normal summers), but is still moderate. If you truely hate heat though, avoid mid-September till November as that is our hottest time of year, since there is not as much fog then. Once November hits it pretty suddenly gets cold again though. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.189.187|172.68.189.187]] 06:08, 15 November 2017 (UTC)Rowan

This graph doesn't make any sense. In my experience, people who live in places with hot summers hate heat, and people who live in places with cold winters hate coldness. Everyone I've ever spoken from Perth basically constantly complains about the heat! Shouldn't the whole thing be flipped? [[User:Maplestrip|Maplestrip]] ([[User talk:Maplestrip|talk]]) 08:46, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
:I just now realized that it says "where ''to'' live," not "where you live." I take back this silly comment ^_^; My bad [[User:Maplestrip|Maplestrip]] ([[User talk:Maplestrip|talk]]) 09:00, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Why is there dirt in the middle of the picture? [[User:Fabian42|Fabian42]] ([[User talk:Fabian42|talk]]) 09:06, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
:It appears to be a faded-out image, probably some reference pic that Randall was using while drawing. Something similar appeared in [[1561: Water Phase Diagram#Original version|1561]], and was later removed. [[User:Peregrine|Peregrine]] ([[User talk:Peregrine|talk]]) 11:32, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Coming from Denmark I'm really dissapointed that he left out our capital, and the largest city in Scandinavia, Copenhagen, when he has both Oslo, Stockholm and .... Reykjavik... :-D But guess it should be placed near Oslo... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:54, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
:Within the mid-United States, Randall ignored Chicago entirely and highlighted Minneapolis. Since I'm originally from Minnesota, I appreciate that a LOT. (Chicago can keep their wind, those blowhards; if you want a humid summer, find a Minnesota lake for your vacation! Then enjoy the ice fishing in winter, too.) '''--BigMal''' // [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.184|108.162.216.184]] 15:16, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
::Denver isn't on here. We have over 230 temperate days per year; We get big snow sometimes, then it melts away within a day or two. I think it belongs somewhere directly below Paris? I wonder how we'd be positioned relative to Portland...
::There's no way Randall has spent any significant time near Lubbock Texas; It should be shown farther up & to the right, maybe a lot farther.
::[[Special:Contributions/172.68.58.59|172.68.58.59]] 02:46, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
:I'm disappointed he left out Hamburg, Germany (and instead included Berlin). Average high over the year in Hamburg is 13.2°C (highest average is 22.1°C and 22.2°C in July and August, respectively), average low over the year is 6.2°C (lowest average is -1.4°C in January). So, if you like mild winters as much as you like mild summers, you should live in Hamburg. --[[User:LordHorst|LordHorst]] ([[User talk:LordHorst|talk]]) 09:52, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

So I've added a table with one entry for you all to put in data. I don't know where to find humidex info but the average low temperatures should be easy enough to find on e.g. Wikipedia. --[[User:AnotherAnonymous|AnotherAnonymous]] ([[User talk:AnotherAnonymous|talk]]) 10:10, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
:I think I've sorted all the disambiguations out apart from Richmond. My instinct is to say it's Richmond, Virginia but now I've seen how many Richmonds there are I'm not so sure...--[[User:AnotherAnonymous|AnotherAnonymous]] ([[User talk:AnotherAnonymous|talk]]) 12:07, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

I think that "Altay" is more likely to be {{w|Altay City|Altay City, China}}, not {{w|Altai City|Altai City, Mongolia}}. The Wikipedia-preferred spellings are one piece of evidence, but more convincing is the position of "Altay" right '''above''' (i.e. winters warmer than) "Regina". If this is {{w|Regina, Saskatchewan}}, then its temperature profile (per Wikipedia) is very similar to the Chinese city.
* Jan average: Regina, −20.1 to −9.3°C, and Altay, −21 to −9.4°C (versus Altai, −24.8 to −10.4°C)... pretty close all around, but Altai is a little colder.
* Jul average: Regina, 11.9 to 25.8°C, and Altay, 15.1 to 28.2°C (versus Altai, 8.0 to 19.7°C)... Altay is warmer than Regina, whereas Altai is quite a bit colder.
* Annual average: Regina, −3.2 to 9.3°C, and Altay, −1.4 to 10.7°C (versus Altai, −7.98 to 5.03°C)... Altai is again noticeably colder.
(Oops, edit conflict with [[User:AnotherAnonymous|AnotherAnonymous]]. Before their edit—which points to Altay City, China—the table said it was unclear which was meant.)
-- [[User:Peregrine|Peregrine]] ([[User talk:Peregrine|talk]]) 12:18, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
:Yeah, sorry, I changed my mind, I can't remember why now... --[[User:AnotherAnonymous|AnotherAnonymous]] ([[User talk:AnotherAnonymous|talk]]) 13:28, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

So, the table lists temperatures for these cities from some unknown source(s), that may not be the same source(s) Randall used. I think the more interesting table would bte the table of X/y coordinates for each city from the comic. No? [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 15:01, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
: I disagree - we can see where they are on the comic, so that's not very interesting at all. This table puts some hard figures on the co-ordinates. (In most explanations when we 'estimate' co-ordinates, it's because there are no hard figures). By the way, the source I'm using for my figures is weatherbase.com as suggested in the transcript. I can't speak what others are using but maybe we should make this clearer. --[[User:AnotherAnonymous|AnotherAnonymous]] ([[User talk:AnotherAnonymous|talk]]) 16:05, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Chicago? Bottom right corner.
[[Special:Contributions/162.158.106.12|162.158.106.12]] 15:37, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
: Chicago averages around 12 days of 90+ and none over 100 per year (similar to New York) does not rank as being all that hot on a world scale [[User:Rtanenbaum|Rtanenbaum]] ([[User talk:Rtanenbaum|talk]]) 18:47, 15 November 2017 (UTC).
: Wherever Chicago should go (and it's definitely in the lower right quadrant), it's weird that Randall didn't put it there. It's the USA's third-largest city and by far the biggest metropolitan area in the Midwest. How did Minneapolis make the cut if Chicago didn't? (No offense, Minnesotans.) [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.250|108.162.216.250]] 23:33, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Added hottest month Humidex values for all cities that have temperature and dew point data, using equation from the Wikipedia page on Humidex.

My jimmies are really rustled by Randall using the puny american McMurdo station (record low of mere -51 centigrade) instead of the glorious russian Vostok station (record low -89 "steel shatters" centigrade).

------
As a resident of Oregon, I vote for Portland being Portland, OR. It is not only larger than Portland, Maine; it also more closely fits the mild climate that Randall seems to place it in on the graph. An early settler wrote two letters back east: The first, "Come live with me, there ain't no winter here", the second six months later "Nevermind, there ain't no summer either" [[User:Seebert|Seebert]] ([[User talk:Seebert|talk]]) 21:44, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

I'm not convinced by the Humidex numbers (or possibly the calculation) for London. It has the third highest value of 49.3, which according to the Wikipedia entry for Humidex, is "Dangerous; heat stroke quite possible". London can occasionally have some unpleasantly hot days in the summer, but generally (as the diagram implies) it's rarely too hot or too cold. --[[User:TimO|TimO]] ([[User talk:TimO|talk]]) 10:26, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
:You're right - I think someone got their numbers out of sync when they were typing them in, there were several in the wrong place. Fixed now --[[User:AnotherAnonymous|AnotherAnonymous]] ([[User talk:AnotherAnonymous|talk]]) 13:38, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

Is the Humidex right for Rio? It shows 48, but meaning it should have been one of the furthest to the right. But that's not where it was drawn.
:I don't know whether or not that's correct, but it could be: That is a known problem with Humidex (note: it was invented in Canada and has not been adopted in many southern countries where heat and humidity is much larger). See: [http://ptaff.ca/humidex/?lang=en_CA an argument about wind chill and Humidex]. That value seems to be correct, as calculated by [http://www.physlink.com/Reference/Weather.cfm this site]. However, maybe there's multiple different equations to compute Humidex? [[User:Jeudi Violist|Jeudi Violist]] ([[User talk:Jeudi Violist|talk]]) 22:05, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

== Temperatures ==

For the low/high temperatures, should it be the average temperature of the coldest/hottest months or the average low/high of the coldest/hottest months?
The two are not the same, and you can get both from weatherbase.com.
Some of the data is already messed up. I highly doubt that Raleigh is the hottest place on earth. AFAIK, people live there, but I don't think anyone could survive between 50C and 70C all year round...
--[[User:Dkasza|Dkasza]] ([[User talk:Dkasza|talk]]) 03:31, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
:Hi Dkasza, thanks for the comment. I think the point of the original comic is to compare how hot it typically gets in summer - so the average high for the hottest month - with how cold it gets in winter - so the average low for the coldest month. That's what I went with - I think the average temperature for the hottest month isn't the best because it doesn't tell you ''how hot it gets'' (and similarly for cold). As for Raleigh, I think the data you mention must have been changed because it looks reasonable now - perhaps someone originally but the Fahrenheit values in by mistake? I've entered most of the data myself, but feel free to correct any errors! --[[User:AnotherAnonymous|AnotherAnonymous]] ([[User talk:AnotherAnonymous|talk]]) 14:39, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

Talk:1916: Temperature Preferences

2017-11-16T22:10:59Z

Jeudi Violist:

As someone who lives near San Fransisco, but has lived in multiple other climates, I can say, San Fransisco can be pretty cold during summer months (compared to normal summers), but is still moderate. If you truely hate heat though, avoid mid-September till November as that is our hottest time of year, since there is not as much fog then. Once November hits it pretty suddenly gets cold again though. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.189.187|172.68.189.187]] 06:08, 15 November 2017 (UTC)Rowan

This graph doesn't make any sense. In my experience, people who live in places with hot summers hate heat, and people who live in places with cold winters hate coldness. Everyone I've ever spoken from Perth basically constantly complains about the heat! Shouldn't the whole thing be flipped? [[User:Maplestrip|Maplestrip]] ([[User talk:Maplestrip|talk]]) 08:46, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
:I just now realized that it says "where ''to'' live," not "where you live." I take back this silly comment ^_^; My bad [[User:Maplestrip|Maplestrip]] ([[User talk:Maplestrip|talk]]) 09:00, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Why is there dirt in the middle of the picture? [[User:Fabian42|Fabian42]] ([[User talk:Fabian42|talk]]) 09:06, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
:It appears to be a faded-out image, probably some reference pic that Randall was using while drawing. Something similar appeared in [[1561: Water Phase Diagram#Original version|1561]], and was later removed. [[User:Peregrine|Peregrine]] ([[User talk:Peregrine|talk]]) 11:32, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Coming from Denmark I'm really dissapointed that he left out our capital, and the largest city in Scandinavia, Copenhagen, when he has both Oslo, Stockholm and .... Reykjavik... :-D But guess it should be placed near Oslo... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:54, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
:Within the mid-United States, Randall ignored Chicago entirely and highlighted Minneapolis. Since I'm originally from Minnesota, I appreciate that a LOT. (Chicago can keep their wind, those blowhards; if you want a humid summer, find a Minnesota lake for your vacation! Then enjoy the ice fishing in winter, too.) '''--BigMal''' // [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.184|108.162.216.184]] 15:16, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
::Denver isn't on here. We have over 230 temperate days per year; We get big snow sometimes, then it melts away within a day or two. I think it belongs somewhere directly below Paris? I wonder how we'd be positioned relative to Portland...
::There's no way Randall has spent any significant time near Lubbock Texas; It should be shown farther up & to the right, maybe a lot farther.
::[[Special:Contributions/172.68.58.59|172.68.58.59]] 02:46, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
:I'm disappointed he left out Hamburg, Germany (and instead included Berlin). Average high over the year in Hamburg is 13.2°C (highest average is 22.1°C and 22.2°C in July and August, respectively), average low over the year is 6.2°C (lowest average is -1.4°C in January). So, if you like mild winters as much as you like mild summers, you should live in Hamburg. --[[User:LordHorst|LordHorst]] ([[User talk:LordHorst|talk]]) 09:52, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

So I've added a table with one entry for you all to put in data. I don't know where to find humidex info but the average low temperatures should be easy enough to find on e.g. Wikipedia. --[[User:AnotherAnonymous|AnotherAnonymous]] ([[User talk:AnotherAnonymous|talk]]) 10:10, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
:I think I've sorted all the disambiguations out apart from Richmond. My instinct is to say it's Richmond, Virginia but now I've seen how many Richmonds there are I'm not so sure...--[[User:AnotherAnonymous|AnotherAnonymous]] ([[User talk:AnotherAnonymous|talk]]) 12:07, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

I think that "Altay" is more likely to be {{w|Altay City|Altay City, China}}, not {{w|Altai City|Altai City, Mongolia}}. The Wikipedia-preferred spellings are one piece of evidence, but more convincing is the position of "Altay" right '''above''' (i.e. winters warmer than) "Regina". If this is {{w|Regina, Saskatchewan}}, then its temperature profile (per Wikipedia) is very similar to the Chinese city.
* Jan average: Regina, −20.1 to −9.3°C, and Altay, −21 to −9.4°C (versus Altai, −24.8 to −10.4°C)... pretty close all around, but Altai is a little colder.
* Jul average: Regina, 11.9 to 25.8°C, and Altay, 15.1 to 28.2°C (versus Altai, 8.0 to 19.7°C)... Altay is warmer than Regina, whereas Altai is quite a bit colder.
* Annual average: Regina, −3.2 to 9.3°C, and Altay, −1.4 to 10.7°C (versus Altai, −7.98 to 5.03°C)... Altai is again noticeably colder.
(Oops, edit conflict with [[User:AnotherAnonymous|AnotherAnonymous]]. Before their edit—which points to Altay City, China—the table said it was unclear which was meant.)
-- [[User:Peregrine|Peregrine]] ([[User talk:Peregrine|talk]]) 12:18, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
:Yeah, sorry, I changed my mind, I can't remember why now... --[[User:AnotherAnonymous|AnotherAnonymous]] ([[User talk:AnotherAnonymous|talk]]) 13:28, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

So, the table lists temperatures for these cities from some unknown source(s), that may not be the same source(s) Randall used. I think the more interesting table would bte the table of X/y coordinates for each city from the comic. No? [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 15:01, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
: I disagree - we can see where they are on the comic, so that's not very interesting at all. This table puts some hard figures on the co-ordinates. (In most explanations when we 'estimate' co-ordinates, it's because there are no hard figures). By the way, the source I'm using for my figures is weatherbase.com as suggested in the transcript. I can't speak what others are using but maybe we should make this clearer. --[[User:AnotherAnonymous|AnotherAnonymous]] ([[User talk:AnotherAnonymous|talk]]) 16:05, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Chicago? Bottom right corner.
[[Special:Contributions/162.158.106.12|162.158.106.12]] 15:37, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
: Chicago averages around 12 days of 90+ and none over 100 per year (similar to New York) does not rank as being all that hot on a world scale [[User:Rtanenbaum|Rtanenbaum]] ([[User talk:Rtanenbaum|talk]]) 18:47, 15 November 2017 (UTC).
: Wherever Chicago should go (and it's definitely in the lower right quadrant), it's weird that Randall didn't put it there. It's the USA's third-largest city and by far the biggest metropolitan area in the Midwest. How did Minneapolis make the cut if Chicago didn't? (No offense, Minnesotans.) [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.250|108.162.216.250]] 23:33, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Added hottest month Humidex values for all cities that have temperature and dew point data, using equation from the Wikipedia page on Humidex.

My jimmies are really rustled by Randall using the puny american McMurdo station (record low of mere -51 centigrade) instead of the glorious russian Vostok station (record low -89 "steel shatters" centigrade).

------
As a resident of Oregon, I vote for Portland being Portland, OR. It is not only larger than Portland, Maine; it also more closely fits the mild climate that Randall seems to place it in on the graph. An early settler wrote two letters back east: The first, "Come live with me, there ain't no winter here", the second six months later "Nevermind, there ain't no summer either" [[User:Seebert|Seebert]] ([[User talk:Seebert|talk]]) 21:44, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

I'm not convinced by the Humidex numbers (or possibly the calculation) for London. It has the third highest value of 49.3, which according to the Wikipedia entry for Humidex, is "Dangerous; heat stroke quite possible". London can occasionally have some unpleasantly hot days in the summer, but generally (as the diagram implies) it's rarely too hot or too cold. --[[User:TimO|TimO]] ([[User talk:TimO|talk]]) 10:26, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
:You're right - I think someone got their numbers out of sync when they were typing them in, there were several in the wrong place. Fixed now --[[User:AnotherAnonymous|AnotherAnonymous]] ([[User talk:AnotherAnonymous|talk]]) 13:38, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

Is the Humidex right for Rio? It shows 48, but meaning it should have been one of the furthest to the right. But that's not where it was drawn.
:I don't know whether or not that's correct, but it could be: That is a known problem with Humidex (note: it was invented in Canada and has not been adopted in many southern countries where heat and humidity is much larger). See: [http://ptaff.ca/humidex/?lang=en_CA an argument about wind chill and Humidex]. That value seems to be correct, as calculated by [http://www.physlink.com/Reference/Weather.cfm this site]. [[User:Jeudi Violist|Jeudi Violist]] ([[User talk:Jeudi Violist|talk]]) 22:05, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

== Temperatures ==

For the low/high temperatures, should it be the average temperature of the coldest/hottest months or the average low/high of the coldest/hottest months?
The two are not the same, and you can get both from weatherbase.com.
Some of the data is already messed up. I highly doubt that Raleigh is the hottest place on earth. AFAIK, people live there, but I don't think anyone could survive between 50C and 70C all year round...
--[[User:Dkasza|Dkasza]] ([[User talk:Dkasza|talk]]) 03:31, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
:Hi Dkasza, thanks for the comment. I think the point of the original comic is to compare how hot it typically gets in summer - so the average high for the hottest month - with how cold it gets in winter - so the average low for the coldest month. That's what I went with - I think the average temperature for the hottest month isn't the best because it doesn't tell you ''how hot it gets'' (and similarly for cold). As for Raleigh, I think the data you mention must have been changed because it looks reasonable now - perhaps someone originally but the Fahrenheit values in by mistake? I've entered most of the data myself, but feel free to correct any errors! --[[User:AnotherAnonymous|AnotherAnonymous]] ([[User talk:AnotherAnonymous|talk]]) 14:39, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

Talk:1916: Temperature Preferences

2017-11-16T22:05:23Z

Jeudi Violist:

As someone who lives near San Fransisco, but has lived in multiple other climates, I can say, San Fransisco can be pretty cold during summer months (compared to normal summers), but is still moderate. If you truely hate heat though, avoid mid-September till November as that is our hottest time of year, since there is not as much fog then. Once November hits it pretty suddenly gets cold again though. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.189.187|172.68.189.187]] 06:08, 15 November 2017 (UTC)Rowan

This graph doesn't make any sense. In my experience, people who live in places with hot summers hate heat, and people who live in places with cold winters hate coldness. Everyone I've ever spoken from Perth basically constantly complains about the heat! Shouldn't the whole thing be flipped? [[User:Maplestrip|Maplestrip]] ([[User talk:Maplestrip|talk]]) 08:46, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
:I just now realized that it says "where ''to'' live," not "where you live." I take back this silly comment ^_^; My bad [[User:Maplestrip|Maplestrip]] ([[User talk:Maplestrip|talk]]) 09:00, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Why is there dirt in the middle of the picture? [[User:Fabian42|Fabian42]] ([[User talk:Fabian42|talk]]) 09:06, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
:It appears to be a faded-out image, probably some reference pic that Randall was using while drawing. Something similar appeared in [[1561: Water Phase Diagram#Original version|1561]], and was later removed. [[User:Peregrine|Peregrine]] ([[User talk:Peregrine|talk]]) 11:32, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Coming from Denmark I'm really dissapointed that he left out our capital, and the largest city in Scandinavia, Copenhagen, when he has both Oslo, Stockholm and .... Reykjavik... :-D But guess it should be placed near Oslo... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:54, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
:Within the mid-United States, Randall ignored Chicago entirely and highlighted Minneapolis. Since I'm originally from Minnesota, I appreciate that a LOT. (Chicago can keep their wind, those blowhards; if you want a humid summer, find a Minnesota lake for your vacation! Then enjoy the ice fishing in winter, too.) '''--BigMal''' // [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.184|108.162.216.184]] 15:16, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
::Denver isn't on here. We have over 230 temperate days per year; We get big snow sometimes, then it melts away within a day or two. I think it belongs somewhere directly below Paris? I wonder how we'd be positioned relative to Portland...
::There's no way Randall has spent any significant time near Lubbock Texas; It should be shown farther up & to the right, maybe a lot farther.
::[[Special:Contributions/172.68.58.59|172.68.58.59]] 02:46, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
:I'm disappointed he left out Hamburg, Germany (and instead included Berlin). Average high over the year in Hamburg is 13.2°C (highest average is 22.1°C and 22.2°C in July and August, respectively), average low over the year is 6.2°C (lowest average is -1.4°C in January). So, if you like mild winters as much as you like mild summers, you should live in Hamburg. --[[User:LordHorst|LordHorst]] ([[User talk:LordHorst|talk]]) 09:52, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

So I've added a table with one entry for you all to put in data. I don't know where to find humidex info but the average low temperatures should be easy enough to find on e.g. Wikipedia. --[[User:AnotherAnonymous|AnotherAnonymous]] ([[User talk:AnotherAnonymous|talk]]) 10:10, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
:I think I've sorted all the disambiguations out apart from Richmond. My instinct is to say it's Richmond, Virginia but now I've seen how many Richmonds there are I'm not so sure...--[[User:AnotherAnonymous|AnotherAnonymous]] ([[User talk:AnotherAnonymous|talk]]) 12:07, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

I think that "Altay" is more likely to be {{w|Altay City|Altay City, China}}, not {{w|Altai City|Altai City, Mongolia}}. The Wikipedia-preferred spellings are one piece of evidence, but more convincing is the position of "Altay" right '''above''' (i.e. winters warmer than) "Regina". If this is {{w|Regina, Saskatchewan}}, then its temperature profile (per Wikipedia) is very similar to the Chinese city.
* Jan average: Regina, −20.1 to −9.3°C, and Altay, −21 to −9.4°C (versus Altai, −24.8 to −10.4°C)... pretty close all around, but Altai is a little colder.
* Jul average: Regina, 11.9 to 25.8°C, and Altay, 15.1 to 28.2°C (versus Altai, 8.0 to 19.7°C)... Altay is warmer than Regina, whereas Altai is quite a bit colder.
* Annual average: Regina, −3.2 to 9.3°C, and Altay, −1.4 to 10.7°C (versus Altai, −7.98 to 5.03°C)... Altai is again noticeably colder.
(Oops, edit conflict with [[User:AnotherAnonymous|AnotherAnonymous]]. Before their edit—which points to Altay City, China—the table said it was unclear which was meant.)
-- [[User:Peregrine|Peregrine]] ([[User talk:Peregrine|talk]]) 12:18, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
:Yeah, sorry, I changed my mind, I can't remember why now... --[[User:AnotherAnonymous|AnotherAnonymous]] ([[User talk:AnotherAnonymous|talk]]) 13:28, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

So, the table lists temperatures for these cities from some unknown source(s), that may not be the same source(s) Randall used. I think the more interesting table would bte the table of X/y coordinates for each city from the comic. No? [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 15:01, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
: I disagree - we can see where they are on the comic, so that's not very interesting at all. This table puts some hard figures on the co-ordinates. (In most explanations when we 'estimate' co-ordinates, it's because there are no hard figures). By the way, the source I'm using for my figures is weatherbase.com as suggested in the transcript. I can't speak what others are using but maybe we should make this clearer. --[[User:AnotherAnonymous|AnotherAnonymous]] ([[User talk:AnotherAnonymous|talk]]) 16:05, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Chicago? Bottom right corner.
[[Special:Contributions/162.158.106.12|162.158.106.12]] 15:37, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
: Chicago averages around 12 days of 90+ and none over 100 per year (similar to New York) does not rank as being all that hot on a world scale [[User:Rtanenbaum|Rtanenbaum]] ([[User talk:Rtanenbaum|talk]]) 18:47, 15 November 2017 (UTC).
: Wherever Chicago should go (and it's definitely in the lower right quadrant), it's weird that Randall didn't put it there. It's the USA's third-largest city and by far the biggest metropolitan area in the Midwest. How did Minneapolis make the cut if Chicago didn't? (No offense, Minnesotans.) [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.250|108.162.216.250]] 23:33, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Added hottest month Humidex values for all cities that have temperature and dew point data, using equation from the Wikipedia page on Humidex.

My jimmies are really rustled by Randall using the puny american McMurdo station (record low of mere -51 centigrade) instead of the glorious russian Vostok station (record low -89 "steel shatters" centigrade).

------
As a resident of Oregon, I vote for Portland being Portland, OR. It is not only larger than Portland, Maine; it also more closely fits the mild climate that Randall seems to place it in on the graph. An early settler wrote two letters back east: The first, "Come live with me, there ain't no winter here", the second six months later "Nevermind, there ain't no summer either" [[User:Seebert|Seebert]] ([[User talk:Seebert|talk]]) 21:44, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

I'm not convinced by the Humidex numbers (or possibly the calculation) for London. It has the third highest value of 49.3, which according to the Wikipedia entry for Humidex, is "Dangerous; heat stroke quite possible". London can occasionally have some unpleasantly hot days in the summer, but generally (as the diagram implies) it's rarely too hot or too cold. --[[User:TimO|TimO]] ([[User talk:TimO|talk]]) 10:26, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
:You're right - I think someone got their numbers out of sync when they were typing them in, there were several in the wrong place. Fixed now --[[User:AnotherAnonymous|AnotherAnonymous]] ([[User talk:AnotherAnonymous|talk]]) 13:38, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

Is the Humidex right for Rio? It shows 48, but meaning it should have been one of the furthest to the right. But that's not where it was drawn.
:I don't know whether or not that's correct, but it could be: That is a known problem with Humidex (note: it was invented in Canada and has not been adopted in many southern countries where heat and humidity is much larger). See: [http://ptaff.ca/humidex/?lang=en_CA an argument about wind chill and Humidex]. [[User:Jeudi Violist|Jeudi Violist]] ([[User talk:Jeudi Violist|talk]]) 22:05, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

== Temperatures ==

For the low/high temperatures, should it be the average temperature of the coldest/hottest months or the average low/high of the coldest/hottest months?
The two are not the same, and you can get both from weatherbase.com.
Some of the data is already messed up. I highly doubt that Raleigh is the hottest place on earth. AFAIK, people live there, but I don't think anyone could survive between 50C and 70C all year round...
--[[User:Dkasza|Dkasza]] ([[User talk:Dkasza|talk]]) 03:31, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
:Hi Dkasza, thanks for the comment. I think the point of the original comic is to compare how hot it typically gets in summer - so the average high for the hottest month - with how cold it gets in winter - so the average low for the coldest month. That's what I went with - I think the average temperature for the hottest month isn't the best because it doesn't tell you ''how hot it gets'' (and similarly for cold). As for Raleigh, I think the data you mention must have been changed because it looks reasonable now - perhaps someone originally but the Fahrenheit values in by mistake? I've entered most of the data myself, but feel free to correct any errors! --[[User:AnotherAnonymous|AnotherAnonymous]] ([[User talk:AnotherAnonymous|talk]]) 14:39, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

1916: Temperature Preferences

2017-11-16T02:32:13Z

Jeudi Violist: /* Explanation */ Also, Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paulo

{{comic
| number = 1916
| date = November 15, 2017
| title = Temperature Preferences
| image = temperature_preferences.png
| titletext = There's a supposed Mark Twain quote, "The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco." It isn't really by Mark Twain, but I don't know who said it—I just know they've never been to McMurdo Station.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Fill in the table using data from [http://weatherbase.com weatherbase.com] (Randall's source!). Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
This is a chart of major (and not-so-major) populated areas showing seasonal temperature patterns. The chart is a guide to where one might like to live depending on how much summer heat and winter cold they enjoy. There are four focused zones:

* Hate both cold and heat (eg. Quito, Addis Ababa)--Neither summers nor winters are too extreme
* Hate cold but love heat (eg. Rio, Bangkok, Manila)--Very hot in the summer; typically tropical regions
* Hate heat but love cold (eg. Moscow, Oslo)--Very cold in the winter; typically high latitudes
* Love both heat and cold (eg. Seoul, Beijing)--Both summers and winters are extreme

The summer heat axis is determined by {{w|humidex}}, a system that combines heat and humidity to generate an estimate of perceived "summer discomfort".

{| class="wikitable sortable"
! City
! Country
! Continent
! Average low in coldest month (°C)
! Average high in hottest month (°C)
! Hottest monthly average dew point (°C)
! Humidex
! Latitude
! Elevation (m)
|-
| {{w|Abakan}} || Russia || Asia || -22 || 26 || 13 || 28.8 || 53° 43′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Addis Ababa}} || Ethiopia || Africa || 10 || 22 || 11 || 23.8 || 9° 1′ N || 2355
|-
| {{w|Altay City|Altay}} || China || Asia || -22 || 27 || 8 || 27.4 || 47° 52′ N || 887
|-
| {{w|Athens}} || Greece || Europe || 7 || 31.8 || 14 || 35.2 || 37° 59′ N || 70
|-
| {{w|Atlanta}} || United States || North America || 1.3 || 31.7 || 20.1 || 39.4 || 33° 45′ N || 225
|-
| {{w|Baghdad}} || Iraq || Asia || 3 || 43 || 8 || 43.4 || 33° 20′ N || 34
|-
| {{w|Bangkok}} || Thailand || Asia || 21 || 34 || 24 || 45.3 || 13° 45′ N || 1.5
|-
| {{w|Barcelona}} || Spain || Europe || 4.4 || 28 || 18 || 34 || 41° 23′ N || 12
|-
| {{w|Beijing}} || China || Asia || -8 || 30 || 20 || 37.6 || 39° 55′ N || 43.5
|-
| {{w|Berlin}} || Germany || Europe || -3 || 22 || 11 || 23.8 || 53° 31′ N || 34
|-
| {{w|Blagoveshchensk}} || Russia || Asia || -26.2 || 27.3 || 16 || 31.9 || 50° 15′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Bogotá}} || Colombia || South America || 6 || 19 || 10 || 20.3 || 4° 42′ N || 2640
|-
| {{w|Boston}} || United States || North America || -5.4 || 27.6 || 16.3 || 32.4 || 42° 21′ N || 43
|-
| {{w|Brisbane}} || Australia || Oceania || 9 || 28 || 18 || 34 || 27° 28′ S || 28
|-
| {{w|Budapest}} || Hungary || Europe || -3 || 26 || 12 || 28.3 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Buenos Aires}} || Argentina || South America || 7.4 || 30.4 || 16 || 35 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Cairo}} || Egypt || Africa || 9 || 33 || 18 || 39 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Calgary}} || Canada || North America || -13.2 || 23.2 || 7 || 23.2 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Cape Town}} || South Africa || Africa || 8 || 25 || 15 || 29 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Casper, Wyoming|Casper}} || United States || North America || -10.3 || 31.2 || 6.8 || 31.1 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Chengdu}} || China || Asia || 2 || 28 || 22 || 37.3 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Dallas}} || United States || North America || 3 || 36 || 19.4 || 43.1 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Da Qaidam}} || China || Asia || -23 || 22 || -6 || 18.6 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Dar es Salaam}} || Tanzania || Africa || 19 || 31 || 23 || 41.3 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Washington, D.C.|DC}} || United States || North America || -1.9 || 31.3 || 19.1 || 38.1 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Delhi}} || India || Asia || 7.8 || 39.8 || 24 || 51.1 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Dhaka}} || Bangladesh || Asia || 12.7 || 33.7 || 25 || 46 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Dubai}} || United Arab Emirates || Asia || 14 || 39 || 23 || 49.3 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Dublin}} || Ireland || Europe || 2.3 || 19.5 || 11 || 21.3 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Duluth}} || United States || North America || -16.1 || 23.4 || 13.3 || 26.4 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Edinburgh}} || United Kingdom || Europe || 1.1 || 19.2 || 10 || 20.5 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|El Paso}} || United States || North America || -0.3 || 35.6 || 12.8 || 38.3 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Fairbanks}} || United States || North America || -27.2 || 22.6 || 9.8 || 23.8 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Fargo, North Dakota|Fargo}} || United States || North America || -17.7 || 28.1 || 15.1 || 32.1 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Flagstaff, Arizona|Flagstaff}} || United States || North America || -7.3 || 30.9 || 8.2 || 31.4 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Geneva}} || Switzerland || Europe || -1.3 || 26.5 || 12 || 28.8 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Guangzhou}} || China || Asia || 10 || 32 || 25 || 44.3 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Hailar District|Hailar}} || China || Asia || -32 || 25 || 13 || 27.8 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Halifax, Nova Scotia|Halifax}} || Canada || North America || -10 || 22 || 13 || 24.8 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Ho Chi Minh City}} || Vietnam || Asia || 22 || 33 || 23 || 43.3 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Hong Kong}} || China || Asia || 14 || 31 || 24 || 42.3 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Honolulu}} || United States || North America || 18.9 || 31.1 || 20.1 || 38.8 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Houston}} || United States || North America || 6.2 || 34.7 || 22.7 || 44.7 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Irkutsk}} || Russia || Asia || -22 || 24.8 || 12 || 27.1 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Istanbul}} || Turkey || Europe* || 2 || 27 || 16 || 31.6 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Jakarta}} || Indonesia || Asia || 23 || 31 || 23 || 41.3 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Jerusalem}} || Israel || Asia || 6.4 || 29.4 || 15 || 33.4 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Jinzhou}} || China || Asia || -12 || 27 || 20 || 34.6 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Kabul}} || Afghanistan || Asia || -5 || 31 || 8 || 31.4 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Kansas City}} || United States || North America || -6.9 || 31.3 || 19.6 || 38.5 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Karachi}} || Pakistan || Asia || 12 || 33 || 25 || 45.3 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Kiev}} || Ukraine || Europe || -9 || 23 || 12 || 25.3 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Kinshasa}} || Democratic Republic of Congo || Africa || 20 || 30 || 21 || 38.4 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Lagos}} || Nigeria || Africa || 23 || 30 || 23 || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Lahore}} || Pakistan || Asia || 8|| 38 || 24 || 40.3 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|London}} || United Kingdom || Europe || 1 || 22.9 || 12 || 49.3 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Los Angeles}} || United States || North America || 13 || 22 || 16.2 || 25.2 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Lubbock}} || United States || North America || -3.6 || 33.8 || 15.9 || 26.7 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Madrid}} || Spain || Europe || 2.6 || 31.2 || 11 || 38.3 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Manila}} || Philippines || Asia || 21 || 33 || 23 || 33 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|McMurdo Station|McMurdo}} || || Antarctica || -31 || -1 || -8 || 43.3 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Melbourne}} || Australia || Oceania || || || || -4.7 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Mexico City}} || Mexico || North America || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Miami}} || United States || North America || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Minneapolis}} || United States || North America || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Moscow}} || Russia || Europe || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Mumbai}} || India || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Nairobi}} || Kenya || Africa || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Needles, California|Needles}} || United States || North America || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Omaha}} || United States || North America || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Oslo}} || Norway || Europe || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Ottawa}} || Canada || North America || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Paris}} || France || Europe || 2.7 || 25.2 || 12 || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Perth}} || Australia || Oceania || || || || 27.5 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Portland, Oregon|Portland}} || United States || North America || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Pyongyang}} || North Korea || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Qiqihar}} || China || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Quito}} || Ecuador || South America || 9 || 20 || 9 || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Raleigh}} || United States || North America || || || || 20.8 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Regina, Saskatchewan|Regina}} || Canada || North America || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Reykjavik}} || Iceland || Europe || -2 || 12 || 7 || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Richmond, Virginia|Richmond}} || United States || North America || || || || 12 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Rio de Janeiro|Rio}} || Brazil || South America || 16.9 || 32.9 || 21 || 48 || 22° 49′ S || 6
|-
| {{w|Riyadh}} || Saudi Arabia || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Rome}} || Italy || Europe || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Sabha, Libya|Sabha}} || Libya || Africa || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|St. Louis|Saint Louis}} || United States || North America || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Salt Lake City}} || United States || North America || -5.8 || 33.7 || 7.7 || 38 || 40° 47′ N || 1286
|-
| {{w|San Francisco}} || United States || North America || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Santa Fe, New Mexico|Santa Fe}} || United States || North America || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Santiago}} || Chile || South America || 2.5 || 29.4 || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Sao Paulo}} || Brazil || South America || 12 || 28 || 18 || 39 || 23° 37′ S || 802
|-
| {{w|Sapporo}} || Japan || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Seoul}} || South Korea || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Shanghai}} || China || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Shenyang}} || China || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Singapore}} || Singapore || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Sioux Falls}} || United States || North America || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|St Petersburg}} || Russia || Europe|| || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Stockholm}} || Sweden || Europe || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Sydney}} || Australia || Oceania || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Tashkent}} || Uzbekistan || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Tehran}} || Iran || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Thunder Bay}} || Canada || North America || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Tokyo}} || Japan || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Tongliao}} || China || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Toronto}} || Canada || North America || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Turpan}} || China || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Ulaanbaatar}} || Mongolia || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Urumqi}} || China || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Vancouver}} || Canada || North America || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Vladivostok}} || Russia || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Volgograd}} || Russia || Europe|| || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Wellington}} || New Zealand || Oceania || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Wuhan}} || China || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Xi'an}} || China || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Yellowknife}} || Canada || North America || -29.5 || 21.3 || 7 || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Yumen City|Yumen}} || China || Asia || || || || 21.3 || ° ′ N ||
|-
|}
*Istanbul spans both Europe and Asia but its city center is located in Europe.

==Transcript==
:[A chart labeled:]
:<big>Where to live</big>
:based on your temperature preferences
:[In gray, the data source is mentioned below:]
:Climate data from [http://weatherbase.com weatherbase.com]

:[A chart with two lines with single arrows. Each arrow is labeled:]
:Y axis bottom: Cold winters
:X axis right: Hot/humid summers (measured via Humidex, which combines heat and dew point)

:[Near each of the corners of the chart there is a gray blob, labeled:]
:Top left: If you hate cold and heat
:Top right: If you hate cold and love heat
:Bottom left: If you love cold and hate heat
:Bottom right: If you love cold and heat

:[The following city names intersect with the top left blob [hate cold and heat] (in reading order):]
:Mexico City
:Quito
:Addis Ababa
:Bogotá
:San Francisco
:Wellington

:[The following city names intersect with the top right blob [hate cold and love heat] (in reading order):]
:Bangkok
:Ho Chi Minh City
:Manila
:Singapore
:Mumbai
:Jakarta
:Dar Es Salaam
:Honolulu
:Lagos
:Rio [de Janeiro]
:Dhaka
:Kinhasa
:Miami
:Karachi
:Dubai
:Cairo
:Hong Kong
:Delhi
:Riyadh
:Guangzhou
:Lahore
:Sabha
:Houston
:Needles
:El Paso
:Baghdad
:Dallas

:[The following city names intersect with the bottom left blob [love cold and hate heat] (in reading order):]
:Reykjavik (with arrow pointing left)
:Berlin
:Stockholm
:Oslo
:Calgary
:Halifax
:Daqaidam
:Kiev
:Casper
:Yumen
:St Petersburg
:Volgograd
:Moscow
:Ottawa
:Vladivostok
:Thunder Bay
:Duluth
:Urumqi
:Altay
:Regina
:Irkutsk
:Abakan
:Ulaanbaatar
:Blagoveshchensk (also on bottom right blob)
:Fairbanks
:McMurdo (with arrow pointing down-left)
:Yellowknife (with arrow pointing down)
:Hailar

:[The following city names intersect with the bottom right blob [love cold and heat] (in reading order):]
:[Washington] DC
:Shanghai
:Tehran
:Saint Louis
:New York
:Xi'An
:Salt Lake City
:Kansas City
:Beijing
:Seoul
:Sapporo
:Pyongyang
:Sioux Falls
:Turpan
:Jinzhou
:Minneapolis
:Shenyang
:Fargo
:Tongliao
:Qiqihar
:Blagoveshchensk (also on bottom left blob)

:[The following city names do not intersect with any blob (in reading order):]
:Nairobi
:São Paulo
:Brisbane
:Los Angeles
:Perth
:Cape Town
:Sydney
:Athens
:Santiago
:Barcelona
:Melbourne
:Rome
:Buenos Aires
:Jerusalem
:Atlanta
:Raleigh
:Madrid
:Chengdu
:Tokyo
:Dublin
:Portland
:Richmond
:London
:Istanbul
:Edinburgh
:Vancouver
:Paris
:Flagstaff
:Santa Fe
:Tashkent
:Wuhan
:Geneva
:Lubbock
:Boston
:Budapest
:Kabul
:Toronto
:Omaha

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Scatter plots]]

1916: Temperature Preferences

2017-11-16T02:13:27Z

Jeudi Violist: /* Explanation */ Added Salt Lake City

{{comic
| number = 1916
| date = November 15, 2017
| title = Temperature Preferences
| image = temperature_preferences.png
| titletext = There's a supposed Mark Twain quote, "The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco." It isn't really by Mark Twain, but I don't know who said it—I just know they've never been to McMurdo Station.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Fill in the table using data from [http://weatherbase.com weatherbase.com] (Randall's source!). Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
This is a chart of major (and not-so-major) populated areas showing seasonal temperature patterns. The chart is a guide to where one might like to live depending on how much summer heat and winter cold they enjoy. There are four focused zones:

* Hate both cold and heat (eg. Quito, Addis Ababa)--Neither summers nor winters are too extreme
* Hate cold but love heat (eg. Rio, Bangkok, Manila)--Very hot in the summer; typically tropical regions
* Hate heat but love cold (eg. Moscow, Oslo)--Very cold in the winter; typically high latitudes
* Love both heat and cold (eg. Seoul, Beijing)--Both summers and winters are extreme

The summer heat axis is determined by {{w|humidex}}, a system that combines heat and humidity to generate an estimate of perceived "summer discomfort".

{| class="wikitable sortable"
! City
! Country
! Continent
! Average low in coldest month (°C)
! Average high in hottest month (°C)
! Hottest monthly average dew point (°C)
! Humidex
! Latitude
! Elevation (m)
|-
| {{w|Abakan}} || Russia || Asia || -22 || 26 || 13 || 28.8 || 53° 43′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Addis Ababa}} || Ethiopia || Africa || 10 || 22 || 11 || 23.8 || 9° 1′ N || 2355
|-
| {{w|Altay City|Altay}} || China || Asia || -22 || 27 || 8 || 27.4 || 47° 52′ N || 887
|-
| {{w|Athens}} || Greece || Europe || 7 || 31.8 || 14 || 35.2 || 37° 59′ N || 70
|-
| {{w|Atlanta}} || United States || North America || 1.3 || 31.7 || 20.1 || 39.4 || 33° 45′ N || 225
|-
| {{w|Baghdad}} || Iraq || Asia || 3 || 43 || 8 || 43.4 || 33° 20′ N || 34
|-
| {{w|Bangkok}} || Thailand || Asia || 21 || 34 || 24 || 45.3 || 13° 45′ N || 1.5
|-
| {{w|Barcelona}} || Spain || Europe || 4.4 || 28 || 18 || 34 || 41° 23′ N || 12
|-
| {{w|Beijing}} || China || Asia || -8 || 30 || 20 || 37.6 || 39° 55′ N || 43.5
|-
| {{w|Berlin}} || Germany || Europe || -3 || 22 || 11 || 23.8 || 53° 31′ N || 34
|-
| {{w|Blagoveshchensk}} || Russia || Asia || -26.2 || 27.3 || 16 || 31.9 || 50° 15′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Bogotá}} || Colombia || South America || 6 || 19 || 10 || 20.3 || 4° 42′ N || 2640
|-
| {{w|Boston}} || United States || North America || -5.4 || 27.6 || 16.3 || 32.4 || 42° 21′ N || 43
|-
| {{w|Brisbane}} || Australia || Oceania || 9 || 28 || 18 || 34 || 27° 28′ S || 28
|-
| {{w|Budapest}} || Hungary || Europe || -3 || 26 || 12 || 28.3 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Buenos Aires}} || Argentina || South America || 7.4 || 30.4 || 16 || 35 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Cairo}} || Egypt || Africa || 9 || 33 || 18 || 39 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Calgary}} || Canada || North America || -13.2 || 23.2 || 7 || 23.2 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Cape Town}} || South Africa || Africa || 8 || 25 || 15 || 29 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Casper, Wyoming|Casper}} || United States || North America || -10.3 || 31.2 || 6.8 || 31.1 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Chengdu}} || China || Asia || 2 || 28 || 22 || 37.3 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Dallas}} || United States || North America || 3 || 36 || 19.4 || 43.1 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Da Qaidam}} || China || Asia || -23 || 22 || -6 || 18.6 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Dar es Salaam}} || Tanzania || Africa || 19 || 31 || 23 || 41.3 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Washington, D.C.|DC}} || United States || North America || -1.9 || 31.3 || 19.1 || 38.1 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Delhi}} || India || Asia || 7.8 || 39.8 || 24 || 51.1 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Dhaka}} || Bangladesh || Asia || 12.7 || 33.7 || 25 || 46 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Dubai}} || United Arab Emirates || Asia || 14 || 39 || 23 || 49.3 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Dublin}} || Ireland || Europe || 2.3 || 19.5 || 11 || 21.3 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Duluth}} || United States || North America || -16.1 || 23.4 || 13.3 || 26.4 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Edinburgh}} || United Kingdom || Europe || 1.1 || 19.2 || 10 || 20.5 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|El Paso}} || United States || North America || -0.3 || 35.6 || 12.8 || 38.3 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Fairbanks}} || United States || North America || -27.2 || 22.6 || 9.8 || 23.8 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Fargo, North Dakota|Fargo}} || United States || North America || -17.7 || 28.1 || 15.1 || 32.1 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Flagstaff, Arizona|Flagstaff}} || United States || North America || -7.3 || 30.9 || 8.2 || 31.4 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Geneva}} || Switzerland || Europe || -1.3 || 26.5 || 12 || 28.8 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Guangzhou}} || China || Asia || 10 || 32 || 25 || 44.3 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Hailar District|Hailar}} || China || Asia || -32 || 25 || 13 || 27.8 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Halifax, Nova Scotia|Halifax}} || Canada || North America || -10 || 22 || 13 || 24.8 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Ho Chi Minh City}} || Vietnam || Asia || 22 || 33 || 23 || 43.3 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Hong Kong}} || China || Asia || 14 || 31 || 24 || 42.3 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Honolulu}} || United States || North America || 18.9 || 31.1 || 20.1 || 38.8 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Houston}} || United States || North America || 6.2 || 34.7 || 22.7 || 44.7 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Irkutsk}} || Russia || Asia || -22 || 24.8 || 12 || 27.1 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Istanbul}} || Turkey || Europe* || 2 || 27 || 16 || 31.6 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Jakarta}} || Indonesia || Asia || 23 || 31 || 23 || 41.3 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Jerusalem}} || Israel || Asia || 6.4 || 29.4 || 15 || 33.4 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Jinzhou}} || China || Asia || -12 || 27 || 20 || 34.6 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Kabul}} || Afghanistan || Asia || -5 || 31 || 8 || 31.4 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Kansas City}} || United States || North America || -6.9 || 31.3 || 19.6 || 38.5 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Karachi}} || Pakistan || Asia || 12 || 33 || 25 || 45.3 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Kiev}} || Ukraine || Europe || -9 || 23 || 12 || 25.3 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Kinshasa}} || Democratic Republic of Congo || Africa || 20 || 30 || 21 || 38.4 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Lagos}} || Nigeria || Africa || 23 || 30 || 23 || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Lahore}} || Pakistan || Asia || 8|| 38 || 24 || 40.3 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|London}} || United Kingdom || Europe || 1 || 22.9 || 12 || 49.3 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Los Angeles}} || United States || North America || 13 || 22 || 16.2 || 25.2 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Lubbock}} || United States || North America || -3.6 || 33.8 || 15.9 || 26.7 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Madrid}} || Spain || Europe || 2.6 || 31.2 || 11 || 38.3 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Manila}} || Philippines || Asia || 21 || 33 || 23 || 33 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|McMurdo Station|McMurdo}} || || Antarctica || -31 || -1 || -8 || 43.3 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Melbourne}} || Australia || Oceania || || || || -4.7 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Mexico City}} || Mexico || North America || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Miami}} || United States || North America || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Minneapolis}} || United States || North America || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Moscow}} || Russia || Europe || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Mumbai}} || India || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Nairobi}} || Kenya || Africa || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Needles, California|Needles}} || United States || North America || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Omaha}} || United States || North America || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Oslo}} || Norway || Europe || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Ottawa}} || Canada || North America || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Paris}} || France || Europe || 2.7 || 25.2 || 12 || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Perth}} || Australia || Oceania || || || || 27.5 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Portland, Oregon|Portland}} || United States || North America || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Pyongyang}} || North Korea || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Qiqihar}} || China || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Quito}} || Ecuador || South America || 9 || 20 || 9 || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Raleigh}} || United States || North America || || || || 20.8 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Regina, Saskatchewan|Regina}} || Canada || North America || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Reykjavik}} || Iceland || Europe || -2 || 12 || 7 || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Richmond, Virginia|Richmond}} || United States || North America || || || || 12 || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Rio de Janeiro|Rio}} || Brazil || South America || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Riyadh}} || Saudi Arabia || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Rome}} || Italy || Europe || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Sabha, Libya|Sabha}} || Libya || Africa || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|St. Louis|Saint Louis}} || United States || North America || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Salt Lake City}} || United States || North America || -5.8 || 33.7 || 7.7 || 38 || 40° 47′ N || 1286
|-
| {{w|San Francisco}} || United States || North America || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Santa Fe, New Mexico|Santa Fe}} || United States || North America || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Santiago}} || Chile || South America || 2.5 || 29.4 || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Sao Paulo}} || Brazil || South America || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Sapporo}} || Japan || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Seoul}} || South Korea || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Shanghai}} || China || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Shenyang}} || China || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Singapore}} || Singapore || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Sioux Falls}} || United States || North America || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|St Petersburg}} || Russia || Europe|| || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Stockholm}} || Sweden || Europe || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Sydney}} || Australia || Oceania || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Tashkent}} || Uzbekistan || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Tehran}} || Iran || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Thunder Bay}} || Canada || North America || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Tokyo}} || Japan || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Tongliao}} || China || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Toronto}} || Canada || North America || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Turpan}} || China || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Ulaanbaatar}} || Mongolia || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Urumqi}} || China || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Vancouver}} || Canada || North America || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Vladivostok}} || Russia || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Volgograd}} || Russia || Europe|| || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Wellington}} || New Zealand || Oceania || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Wuhan}} || China || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Xi'an}} || China || Asia || || || || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Yellowknife}} || Canada || North America || -29.5 || 21.3 || 7 || || ° ′ N ||
|-
| {{w|Yumen City|Yumen}} || China || Asia || || || || 21.3 || ° ′ N ||
|-
|}
*Istanbul spans both Europe and Asia but its city center is located in Europe.

==Transcript==
:[A chart labeled:]
:<big>Where to live</big>
:based on your temperature preferences
:[In gray, the data source is mentioned below:]
:Climate data from [http://weatherbase.com weatherbase.com]

:[A chart with two lines with single arrows. Each arrow is labeled:]
:Y axis bottom: Cold winters
:X axis right: Hot/humid summers (measured via Humidex, which combines heat and dew point)

:[Near each of the corners of the chart there is a gray blob, labeled:]
:Top left: If you hate cold and heat
:Top right: If you hate cold and love heat
:Bottom left: If you love cold and hate heat
:Bottom right: If you love cold and heat

:[The following city names intersect with the top left blob [hate cold and heat] (in reading order):]
:Mexico City
:Quito
:Addis Ababa
:Bogotá
:San Francisco
:Wellington

:[The following city names intersect with the top right blob [hate cold and love heat] (in reading order):]
:Bangkok
:Ho Chi Minh City
:Manila
:Singapore
:Mumbai
:Jakarta
:Dar Es Salaam
:Honolulu
:Lagos
:Rio [de Janeiro]
:Dhaka
:Kinhasa
:Miami
:Karachi
:Dubai
:Cairo
:Hong Kong
:Delhi
:Riyadh
:Guangzhou
:Lahore
:Sabha
:Houston
:Needles
:El Paso
:Baghdad
:Dallas

:[The following city names intersect with the bottom left blob [love cold and hate heat] (in reading order):]
:Reykjavik (with arrow pointing left)
:Berlin
:Stockholm
:Oslo
:Calgary
:Halifax
:Daqaidam
:Kiev
:Casper
:Yumen
:St Petersburg
:Volgograd
:Moscow
:Ottawa
:Vladivostok
:Thunder Bay
:Duluth
:Urumqi
:Altay
:Regina
:Irkutsk
:Abakan
:Ulaanbaatar
:Blagoveshchensk (also on bottom right blob)
:Fairbanks
:McMurdo (with arrow pointing down-left)
:Yellowknife (with arrow pointing down)
:Hailar

:[The following city names intersect with the bottom right blob [love cold and heat] (in reading order):]
:[Washington] DC
:Shanghai
:Tehran
:Saint Louis
:New York
:Xi'An
:Salt Lake City
:Kansas City
:Beijing
:Seoul
:Sapporo
:Pyongyang
:Sioux Falls
:Turpan
:Jinzhou
:Minneapolis
:Shenyang
:Fargo
:Tongliao
:Qiqihar
:Blagoveshchensk (also on bottom left blob)

:[The following city names do not intersect with any blob (in reading order):]
:Nairobi
:São Paulo
:Brisbane
:Los Angeles
:Perth
:Cape Town
:Sydney
:Athens
:Santiago
:Barcelona
:Melbourne
:Rome
:Buenos Aires
:Jerusalem
:Atlanta
:Raleigh
:Madrid
:Chengdu
:Tokyo
:Dublin
:Portland
:Richmond
:London
:Istanbul
:Edinburgh
:Vancouver
:Paris
:Flagstaff
:Santa Fe
:Tashkent
:Wuhan
:Geneva
:Lubbock
:Boston
:Budapest
:Kabul
:Toronto
:Omaha

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Scatter plots]]

1756: I'm With Her

2016-11-07T18:45:38Z

Jeudi Violist: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 1756
| date = November 7, 2016
| title = I'm With Her
| image = im_with_her.png
| titletext = We can do this.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete| Just a stub! please add what you can!}}

[[Randall]] urges his viewership to vote, and states that he will vote for Hillary Rodham Clinton, the {{w|Democratic Party| democratic}} nominee in the 2016 United States Presidential . The "H" with an arrow is Clinton's campaign logo, and "I'm with her" is a slogan widely used by her supporters. He then lists tips to help you cast your vote, surprisingly using only real sites. This suggests he is invested in the election.
The [[Ponytail]] character seems to be Joanna from [[322: Pix Plz]], and the [[Cueball]] on the chair is from [[303: Compiling]]. The [[Hairbun]] sitting on the top-right part of the 'H' appears to be the 'Old Days' programmer from the previous comic, [[1755: Old Days]].

All the information on the bottom half of the comic includes sites, numbers, info, etc that will help US voters to vote, regardless of for whom they will vote for. Including this information helps voters because every election many voters don't vote because they feel they don't know how or that it isn't worth it. It seems like Randall doesn't want the US election to have some of the same problems that the Brexit vote had (where many voters opposed to exiting the EU didn't vote for one reason or another).

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Still nothing on the specific characters in the image.}}
Image of xkcd characters surrounding a large logo for the Hillary Clinton campaign.

Caption: We can do this.

How to help

Vote-- iwillvote.com

Get a ride to the polls-- drive2vote.org

If you're having problems voting-- 866-OUR-VOTE

Experimental social turnout project-- civicinnovation.com App Store: VoteWithMe

Reminder: If you're in line when the polls close, they have to let you vote

{{comic discussion}}

Talk:1756: I'm With Her

2016-11-07T18:39:52Z

Jeudi Violist:

The "I'm with her" and H with an arrow are CLEARLY the respective campaign slogan and campaign logo for Hillary Clinton, not some vagueness having to do with bringing a significant other. --[unsigned]
:I see it more as him endorsing voting regardless of who you vote for (as evidenced by half the comic is about "Here's how you vote" without any mention of candidates or issues) and the endorsing Clinton part is an add-on as if to say "This is how I'm voting; vote for her if you agree with me." [[User:Jeudi Violist|Jeudi Violist]] ([[User talk:Jeudi Violist|talk]]) 18:39, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

Has Randall endorsed a presidential candidate before? --[[User:Dfeuer|Dfeuer]] ([[User talk:Dfeuer|talk]]) 17:14, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
He supported Obama on his blog in '08, not in the comic though.

He could have said any number of clever things about the election, and all he did was put up a campaign sign. Disappointing. [[User:Gmcgath|Gmcgath]] ([[User talk:Gmcgath|talk]]) 17:37, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

what a cuck --[[Special:Contributions/172.68.51.63|172.68.51.63]] 17:45, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:: leaving aside the most ridiculous slur of the past few years, I don't know what else did you expect from Randall. I guess you must have stumbled upon this wiki by chance and have never heard of xkcd before.--[[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.130|141.101.98.130]] 17:59, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

This is the first time I still don't get the joke even after reading the explainxkcd page [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.123|108.162.219.123]] 18:09, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
== Bit disappointing... ==

I was hoping for a comic today. oh well. Interesting to see how he's planning to vote, though - it's a shame that there are no candidates this year in favor of strong encryption.

Funny how females outdo males in this 'comic' but in terms of frequency and of elevation. Oh well. xkcd has long been overrepresenting females, it was to be expected. <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>

Seriously? You're whinging 'what about the men?' in a geek web comic?! [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.212|108.162.215.212]] 18:21, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

The only disappointing this are comments like those two above. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.201.96|162.158.201.96]] 18:11, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

A little disappointing to have a normally lighthearted comic dive seriously into politics, if even for one strip. Not really a fan of either candidate, but would like to see stuff like this stay above the fray.
:Completely agreed. [[User:SeanAhern|SeanAhern]] ([[User talk:SeanAhern|talk]]) 18:27, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

435: Purity

2016-10-12T20:35:09Z

Jeudi Violist: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 435
| date = June 11, 2008
| title = Purity
| image = purity.png
| titletext = On the other hand, physicists like to say physics is to math as sex is to masturbation.
}}

==Explanation==
{{w|Mathematics}} is the abstract study of topics encompassing quantity, structure, space, change, and others. {{w|Physics}} is a natural science that involves the study of matter and its motion through space and time, along with related concepts such as energy and force. They do this using mathematics. {{w|Chemistry}} is the science of matter, especially its chemical reactions, but also its composition, structure and properties. That is, they study a subset of physics, using a subset of physics. {{w|Biology}} is the subset of chemistry that is concerned with the study of life and living organisms, including their structure, function, growth, origin, evolution, distribution, and taxonomy. {{w|Psychology}} is the study of mental functions and behaviors, why living things do what they do individually, which makes it a subset of Biology. {{w|Sociology}} is the study of society, or, the study of groups of people and their interactions, which sounds an awful lot like taking the skills of psychology and applying them to a large group of people.

This comic takes this logic to the extreme by ranking these six scientific fields, represented by a person on a chart of purity, saying that a field is 'more pure', which is interpreted as mattering more, than the fields derived from it. This is a topic often used in jokes between scientists of various fields as to who is more important. The physicist, [[Cueball]], of which everyone else's work is based upon, feels that he is at the top... but is ultimately upstaged by the mathematician, [[Blondie]], whose field is so pure that ultimately everything else could be seen as derived from it. After all, physics could not exist without math, thus ultimately everything can be expressed as a mathematical equation. Thus, the mathematician snobbishly says that she didn't even see any of the other fields standing so far over to the left on the graph. Alternatively she is not snobby - she is just so far detached from the real world - that she doesn't even understand that there could be a comparison between her field and other fields. That is if she even knows about these other fields (''what are you doing over there''...)

The title text points out that math all by itself is not connected to the real world and is only done for your own pleasure. Physics involves interactions with other objects and can create a result, but only by applying mathematics to the real world. This leads to a comparison between sex (physics) and masturbation (mathematics), implying that physics is applying mathematics, just like people having sex likely rely on experiences they have had while masturbating, i.e. sex as applied masturbation. (See also the title text of [[1158: Rubber Sheet]].) This also gives a new meaning to the physicist comment that it is nice to be on top!

In the main comic [[Randall]] clearly ranked mathematicians higher than physicist, but in the title text he turns this around, and notices that the physicist would then notices that mathematics is very pure, but believes that it is not very interesting without something real to apply it to.

Blondie appearing as the mathematician could mean she is supposed to represent [[Miss Lenhart]], but since Lenhart is defined as a teacher, which she can not clearly be said to be here, it is uncertain.

==Transcript==

:[Six characters are standing on a line with small ticks under each person. Above the two persons most central in the comic is an arrow pointing right. There are labels both above and below the arrow. Beneath each tick is a label. All the labels are listed here in order]
:<big>Fields</big> arranged by <big>purity</big>
:::More pure

:Sociologists
:Psychologists
:Biologists
:Chemists
:Physicists
:Mathematicians

:[Above each of the six tick there is a person. The last person to the right is the mathematician, she stands at the far right edge of the comic, with much further distance between her and the second last person going right. The first four spaces between the first five persons are of equal distance. Except for the least pure sociologist they all say something addressed to the less pure person(s) on their left. The first mute person above the Sociologists tick is Megan. The second person above the Psychologists tick is a bald man with glasses and goatee beard holding a book under one arm. The third person above the Biologists tick is a Cueball-like guy with a squirming octopus in his hand. The fourth person above the Chemists tick is Ponytail holding up a test tube with bubbles coming out of the top. The fifth person above the Physicists tick is Cueball standing with his hands in his sides. Farthest out the final and sixth person above the Mathematicians tick is Blondie. She waves to the other five.]

:Psychologist: Sociology is just applied psychology.

:Biologist: Psychology is just applied biology.

:Chemist: Biology is just applied chemistry

:Physicist: Which is just applied physics. It's nice to be on top.

:Mathematician: Oh, hey, I didn't see you guys all the way over there.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Charts]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Blondie]]
[[Category:Multiple Cueballs]]
[[Category:Science]]
[[Category:Psychology]]
[[Category:Biology]]
[[Category:Chemistry]]
[[Category:Physics]]
[[Category:Math]]
[[Category:Sex]]
[[Category:Rankings]]
[[Category:Animals]]

1741: Work

2016-10-07T20:06:32Z

Jeudi Violist: /* Individual design elements */ added source

{{comic
| number = 1741
| date = October 3, 2016
| title = Work
| image = work.png
| titletext = Despite it being imaginary, I already have SUCH a strong opinion on the cord-switch firing incident.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Citation for California in particular having more rules than other US states, both in the explanation and in the table.}}

This comic details a set of theoretical examples of how much work went into the design and manufacture of everyday objects. See explanation of [[#Individual design elements|individual design elements]] below.

The joke centers around the fact that most people in modern times are constantly surrounded with human-built objects, which we generally use without giving them much thought. [[Randall]] implies that he occasionally imagines what went into seemingly simple objects around him (in this case his desk and the water glass and the desk lamp on top of it), and finds it overwhelming. This is because there are so many built items around us, many of which are inexpensive and mass-produced, which nonetheless resulted from a great deal of human effort.

This is similar to the thesis of the classic essay ''[http://www.econlib.org/library/Essays/rdPncl1.html I, Pencil]'', except that while ''I, Pencil'' idealizes manufacture and commerce to argue for the free market and against regulation, the comic focuses on details that are far more human or based in bureaucratic or government red tape.

Presumably, this kind of realization is more likely for people who've worked in design and engineering, like Randall, because they have some insight into what's involved in bringing a product to market. Also people who sit around all day wondering what could be funny, like Randall, could also end up in such a thought spiral. The comment about California recalls is based on the tags on products that often state "This item has been known by the state of California to cause..."[http://oehha.ca.gov/proposition-65]

There's a double joke in the title as the first thing most people will think of, when seeing such a table with a typical desk lamp, is that this is a ''work desk'' rather than about all the '''work''' put into making the desk and lamp. The potential implication is that Randall is so distracted imagining the work that went into creating his workspace that he can't get his own work done, hence the title. (Interestingly, but without being related to this comic, the next comic was called [[1742: Will It Work|1742: Will It '''Work''']]).

The argument over putting the switch on the cord getting someone fired hits on another aspect of the design issue. Companies that design and manufacture goods will inevitably have human conflicts, where decisions will be argued over, and human personalities and office politics will impact the final design.

In the title text Randall states that this incidence is imaginary (based on his imagination) but still he has apparently come up with an entire fictional narrative about the conflict over whether to put the lamp's switch on the lamp body itself, or to attach it to the lamp's power cord. And now he has SUCH a strong opinion about the firing incident.

This may because he already had a strong opinion about who was right, which could make him angry if that person was the one getting fired. Randall's distaste for lamps where the switch is on the cord was mentioned in the title text of [[1036: Reviews]]. As the lamp on this desk is with the switch on the cord, and as it seems Randall really dislikes such lamps, this would make sense, as it would probably be the one wishing to put the switch on the body who were fired. Alternatively it could have been the one who put the switch on the wire that was fired later, when they got poor on-line reviews...

Using the lamp as shown on this desk would make it annoying with the switch on the cord, as it will be hard to reach under the table, when sitting at the desk. Often such lamps have the switch either at the main body or on the head of the lamp. That would make it easy to reach it while sitting at the desk.

A similar theme of the unseen contributions of engineers is found in [[277: Long Light]], including the title text: "You can look at practically any part of anything manmade around you and think 'some engineer was frustrated while designing this.' It's a little human connection." This fits in well with Randall's annoyance with a switch on the cord, as he might believe it was a frustrated engineer that is the cause of such an inconvenient placement of the switch.

===Individual design elements===
{| class="wikitable"
|+Individual Design Elements
!Description
!Explanation
|-
|An engineer worked late drawing this curve in AutoCAD || {{w|AutoCAD}} is a popular software package for doing computer-aided design. Curves in three dimensions are notable for being much more difficult than straight lines, and this curve in particular needs to be revolved around a line and the engineer would need to ensure it correctly interfaces with the remainder of the body.
|-
|Extra vents added to avoid California safety recall || Lamps can get very hot, especially if an {{w|incandescent bulb}} is installed, possibly causing injury if the shade is touched. Additional vents can improve air circulation, allowing the lamp to run cooler. The US state of {{w|California}} is known for its many safety regulations[http://oehha.ca.gov/proposition-65]. California is notable for having strict safety requirements for every product, to the point that Disneyland's front entrance is recently required to have a cancer warning [https://thebigdiseasey.wordpress.com/tag/disneyland/].
|-
|9 hours of meetings || Any product development requires several meetings about coordination for any aspect of the design, especially critical ones that can affect other subsystems in the device, such as the flexible stem in this lamp. Its size is affected by the wiring requirements, strength requirements, intersections with both the base and the lamp head. The material, properties, color, manufacturing process, and so on also have to be determined for something as simple as this.
|-
|Ongoing debate || Designers frequently disagree about what is important enough to be put on the label, where the label needs to be put, which laws apply, and so on.
|-
|Years-long negotiation with glass supplier || Many products have to go through many stages of negotiations before the company can have the required supplies to build the product. This is a commentary on how long it takes to negotiate with other supplier businesses about things that the average consumer sees trivial: it ''can'' take months or years when outsourcing to determine and contract which kind of glass, how much, what price, what happens when base materials change in price, what other kinds of glass are acceptable, what compounds are allowed around the glass during production, etc. etc.
|-
|4 hours of meetings || It takes several meetings for the design team to fully determine and justify what size is best for the market, and to relay this information to the rest of the company. Then, they receive feedback on what is or isn't acceptable, frequently by people who don't know exactly ''why'', so they have to return again for another meeting for further clarification.
|-
|Months of tip-over testing || The thicker the base of a glass is, the lower its center of gravity is, and the heavier it is. A balance between stability and ease of handling must be reached. In addition, testing generally takes longer than the consumer expects, and every variation must be tested to determine which one performs the most acceptably.
|-
|Wood source changed due to 20 year legal fight over logging in the Great Bear rainforest || The {{w|Great Bear Rainforest}} is a temperate rainforest on {{w|Vancouver Island}} in {{w|British Columbia}}, {{w|Canada}}. The government of British Columbia recently announced an agreement to {{w|Great Bear Rainforest|protect 85% of this forest}} from commercial logging.
|-
|Argument over putting switch on cord got someone fired || Some people are really passionate about how convenient minor features are, while other people see those features as useless or that they make the product worse. If the designers can't come to a compromise or a consensus, the disagreement will eventually escalate into an argument until the supervisor eventually figures the heated and passive-aggressive disagreements aren't worth the value of the passionate designers. Randall's distaste for lamps where the switch is on the cord has been mentioned in the title text of [[1036: Reviews]].
|}

==Transcript==
:[A table is shown with a glass of water to the left and a lamp standard type desk lamp on the right. There are nine labels in relation to different parts of these three items. For each label, one or two arrows points to the relevant part. Five labels are written above the table, two on the table and two below the table between the front legs. These last two labels are causing the table legs to the rear to disappear, and also cuts the lamp cord, going beneath the table, in two. Below each label will be written under a description of what they point to going in normal reading order from left to right, two lines above, one line on and one line below the table.]

:[Arrow points a line that follow the curve of the lamps shade:]
:An engineer worked late drawing this curve in AutoCAD

:[Arrow points to back of lamp shade just above the stem. The shade has four visible vents on the front. The part the arrow points to is not visible:]
:Extra vents added to avoid California safety recall

:[Arrow points to glass:]
:Years-long negotiation with glass supplier

:[A double arrow is placed above the center of the glass, ending on two lines above the edges of the glass:]
:4 hours of meetings

:[Two arrow points on either side of the lamp's stem:]
:9 hours of meetings

:[Two arrow, one pointing up at the bottom and the other down at the inside bottom of the glass:]
:Months of tip-over testing

:[An arrow points to the lamp information sticker on the bottom part of the lamps base. Unreadable text can be seen as thins lines on the sticker:]
:Ongoing debate

:[An arrow points to the front edge of the desk, ending in a starburst on the edge:]
:Wood source changed due to 20 year legal fight over logging in the Great Bear rainforest

:[Arrow points to the switch on the lamps cord which can be seen going over the right edge of the table and hanging down below the table. The switch can be seen just under the table edge:]
:Argument over putting switch on cord got someone fired

:[Caption under the panel:]
:Sometimes I get overwhelmed thinking about the amount of work that went into the ordinary objects around me.

{{comic discussion}}

Talk:1741: Work

2016-10-05T03:57:47Z

Jeudi Violist:

Whoa, I've never been early enough to beat the explanation before. {{unsigned ip|173.245.50.82}}
:To 173.245.50.82, please remember to sign your posts. --[[User:JayRulesXKCD|JayRulesXKCD]] ([[User talk:JayRulesXKCD|talk]]) 13:21, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

I wrote the transcript. Feel free to change it so it's not so bare and write the explanation. Thanks. --[[User:JayRulesXKCD|JayRulesXKCD]] ([[User talk:JayRulesXKCD|talk]]) 13:20, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
:Done ;-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:37, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

To prevent fire hazards, objects in California are not allowed to surpass a certain temperature, 140 °C if I'm correct . Can't find the actual law quick. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.114.230|162.158.114.230]] 18:01, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

I think Randall underestimates the problem. I used to work for the research arm of the electronics multinational, Philips. When a product design was "finished", it had to go to a special committee who decided where, exactly, on the product did the word "PHILIPS" and their little shield logo go - and (rarely) whether these things should be done in black or white. It was VERY frequently the case that the committee would take longer to come to a conclusion than the product took to design. [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 20:32, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

I often wonder about those tiny, cheap plastic toys that come in Xmas crackers (UK) or the 25 cent toy vending machines (USA). They are completely crappy things - but thinking that someone thought about what kind of toy should be made - then designed the shape of it, thought about the color of plastic to use, spent tens of thousands of dollars machining an injection mold for it - and STILL turned out a complete piece of junk...it's anyone's guess what effort that took. I know it costs around $40,000 to make a mold like that - but those toys look like someone who was being paid very, very little, spent no more than an afternoon designing each one! [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 20:32, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

What a coincidence. I just got out of my Product Development class. I remember having to deal with so many of these things that it's completely relatable. [[User:Jeudi Violist|Jeudi Violist]] ([[User talk:Jeudi Violist|talk]]) 21:17, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

Wow, that curve would be a bitch to draw in AutoCAD. I still shudder... [[User:Papayaman1000|Papayaman1000]] ([[User talk:Papayaman1000|talk]]) 21:22, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

If anything, I'll bet the timeframes listed are shorter than they really took (only months of tip-over tests? only 9 hours of meetings on the arm?? David Lang {{unsigned ip|173.245.48.105}}

I don't know anything about glass production, but is it true that "what compounds are allowed around the glass during production" matters? It sounds like those martini recipes where one waves a bottle of vermouth towards the glass. [[User:Miamiclay|Miamiclay]] ([[User talk:Miamiclay|talk]]) 05:47, 4 October 2016 (UTC)
:I'm no expert, but if impurities gets into the glass the color or refraction may change or the strength. And if it is a drinking glass there may be any kind of toxic products that may be used in creating window glass etc. that could not be allowed to enter the production. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:37, 4 October 2016 (UTC)
::I wouldn't call myself an expert on glass in cups, either, but I've learned about FDA guidelines, studied manufacturing processes, and visited a glass production company once. The FDA has [http://www.nytimes.com/1991/02/20/garden/fda-issues-warnings-on-using-lead-crystal.html issued a warning] on lead crystal glass cups, and lead has been found in regular glass, and as you said there are many contaminants that can be present during manufacturing from any material but if the material comes in contact with food or drink (such as cups) special care has to be taken to avoid those toxins. I am not 100% sure this is done with drinking glass, but it makes sense. Even if nobody cares about getting toxins in drinking glasses, this comic is about "imaging the work that went into design" and not "knowing exactly what went into design". [[User:Jeudi Violist|Jeudi Violist]] ([[User talk:Jeudi Violist|talk]]) 03:57, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

Randall may, indeed, be annoyed about the cord switch, but there is nothing in the comic or the title text to suggest that. He does, however, have a strong opinion on the "cord switch _firing_ incident". Perhaps that bit of the explanation should be amended? [[User:RoyT|RoyT]] ([[User talk:RoyT|talk]]) 06:48, 4 October 2016 (UTC)
:I think they say that because he implied in the title text of a previous comic that having the switch on the cord is worse than having your dog possessed by a demon. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.218.136|108.162.218.136]] 11:43, 4 October 2016 (UTC)
::Both are true. I have corrected the explanation to say that he is upset about the firing. And then by referring to the old comic makes sense of why he might have such a strong op--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:37, 4 October 2016 (UTC)inion.

Removed an abusive and trolling "disclaimer" asking us to evaluate our life choices and our support of the comic. Trolling is unwelcome. [[User:Enfield|Enfield]] ([[User talk:Enfield|talk]]) 17:41, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

I think about design a lot and however many hours are spent on some products it never ceases to amaze me how the primary feature can fail so terribly, like pouring a liquid without the liquid spilling. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.235|108.162.215.235]] 00:42, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

1741: Work

2016-10-05T03:44:19Z

Jeudi Violist: /* Individual Design Elements */

{{comic
| number = 1741
| date = October 3, 2016
| title = Work
| image = work.png
| titletext = Despite it being imaginary, I already have SUCH a strong opinion on the cord-switch firing incident.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Table still needs Wiki links.}}
This comic details a set of theoretical examples of how much work went into the design and manufacture of everyday objects. The joke centers around the fact that most people in modern times are constantly surrounded with human-built objects, which we generally use without giving them much thought. [[Randall]] implies that he occasionally imagines what went into seemingly simple objects around him (like water glasses and desk lamps), and finds it overwhelming. This is because there are so many built items around us, many of which are inexpensive and mass-produced, which nonetheless resulted from a great deal of human effort. (This is similar to the thesis of the classic essay ''[http://www.econlib.org/library/Essays/rdPncl1.html I, Pencil]'', except that while ''I, Pencil'' idealizes manufacture and commerce to argue for the free market and against regulation, the comic focuses on details that are far more human or based in bureaucratic or government red tape.) Presumably, this kind of realization is more likely for people who've worked in design and engineering, like Randall, because they have some insight into what's involved in bringing a product to market. Also people who sit around all day wondering what could be funny, like Randall, could also end up in such a thought spiral. The comment about California recalls is based on the tags on products that often state "This item has been known by the state of California to cause..."

There's a double joke in the title as the first thing most people will think of, when seeing such a table with a {{w|Balanced-arm lamp}}, is that this is a ''work desk'' rather than about all the '''work''' put into making the desk and lamp. The potential implication is that Randall is so distracted imagining the work that went into creating his workspace that he can't get his own work done, hence the title.

The argument over putting the switch on the cord getting someone fired hits on another aspect of the design issue. Companies that design and manufacture goods will inevitably have human conflicts, where decisions will be argued over, and human personalities and office politics will impact the final design.

In the title text Randall states that this incidence is imaginary (his imagination) but he has apparently come up with an entire fictional narrative about the conflict over whether to put the lamp's switch on the lamp body itself, or to attach it to the lamp's power cord. And now he has SUCH a strong opinion about the firing incident.

This may because he also has a strong opinion about who was right, which could make him angry if that person was the one getting fired. As the lamp on his desk is with the switch on the cord, and as it seems Randall really dislikes such lamps, this would make sense, as it would probably be the one wishing to put the switch on the body who were fired. Alternatively it could have been the one who put the switch on the wire that was fired later, when they got poor on-line reviews... Randall's distaste for lamps where the switch is on the cord is also mentioned in the title text of [[1036: Reviews]]. Using the lamp as shown on this desk would make it annoying with the switch on the cord, as it will be hard to reach under the table, when sitting at the desk. Often such lamps have the switch either at the main body or on the head of the lamp. That would make it easy to reach it while sitting at the desk.

A similar theme of the unseen contributions of engineers is found in [[277: Long Light]], including the title text: "You can look at practically any part of anything manmade around you and think 'some engineer was frustrated while designing this.' It's a little human connection." This fits in well with Randall's annoyance with a switch on the cord.

==Individual Design Elements==
{| class="wikitable"
|+Individual Design Elements
!Description
!Explanation
|-
|An engineer worked late drawing this curve in AutoCAD || AutoCAD is a popular software package for doing computer-aided design. Curves in three dimensions are notable for being much more difficult than straight lines, and this curve in particular needs to be revolved around a line and the engineer would need to ensure it correctly interfaces with the remainder of the body.
|-
|Extra vents added to avoid California safety recall || Lamps can get very hot, especially if an incandescent bulb is installed, possibly causing injury. Additional vents can improve air circulation, allowing the lamp to run cooler. The US state of California is known for its many safety regulations. California is notable for having strict safety requirements for every product, to the point that Disneyland's front entrance is recently required to have a cancer warning.
|-
|9 hours of meetings || Any product development requires several meetings about coordination for any aspect of the design, especially critical ones that can affect other subsystems in the device, such as the flexible stem in this lamp. Its size is affected by the wiring requirements, strength requirements, intersections with both the base and the lamp head. The material, properties, color, manufacturing process, and so on also have to be determined for something as simple as this.
|-
|Ongoing debate || Designers frequently disagree about what is important enough to be put on the label, where the label needs to be put, which laws apply, and so on.
|-
|Years-long negotiation with glass supplier || Many products have to go through many stages of negotiations before the company can have the required supplies to build the product. The joke here is that glass is a common material{{Citation needed}} and thus, no company should have had to spend years on something that trivial. Or, more likely, it's just a commentary on how long it takes to negotiate with other supplier businesses about things that the average consumer sees trivial: it ''can'' take months or years when outsourcing to determine and contract which kind of glass, how much, what price, what happens when base materials change in price, what other kinds of glass are acceptable, what compounds are allowed around the glass during production, &c &c.
|-
|4 hours of meetings || It takes several meetings for the design team to fully determine and justify what size is best for the market, and to relay this information to the rest of the company. Then, they receive feedback on what is or isn't acceptable, frequently by people who don't know exactly ''why'', so they have to return again for another meeting for further clarification.
|-
|Months of tip-over testing || The thicker the base of a glass is, the lower its center of gravity is, and the heavier it is. A balance between stability and ease of handling must be reached. In addition, testing generally takes longer than the consumer expects, and every variation must be tested to determine which one performs the most acceptably.
|-
|Wood source changed due to 20 year legal fight over logging in the Great Bear rainforest || The Great Bear rainforest is a temperate rainforest on Vancouver Island in British Columbia, Canada. The government of British Columbia recently announced an agreement to protect 85% of this forest from commercial logging.
|-
|Argument over putting switch on cord got someone fired || Some people are really passionate about how convenient minor features are, while other people see those features as useless or that they make the product worse. If the designers can't come to a compromise or a consensus, the disagreement will eventually escalate into an argument until the supervisor eventually figures the heated and passive-aggressive disagreements aren't worth the value of the passionate designers.
|}

==Transcript==
:[A table is shown with a glass of water to the left and a lamp standard type desk lamp on the right. There are nine labels in relation to different parts of these three items. For each label, one or two arrows points to the relevant part. Five labels are written above the table, two on the table and two below the table between the front legs. These last two labels are causing the table legs to the rear to disappear, and also cuts the lamp cord, going beneath the table, in two. Below each label will be written under a description of what they point to going in normal reading order from left to right, two lines above, one line on and one line below the table.]

:[Arrow points a line that follow the curve of the lamps shade:]
:An engineer worked late drawing this curve in AutoCAD

:[Arrow points to back of lamp shade just above the stem. The shade has four visible vents on the front. The part the arrow points to is not visible:]
:Extra vents added to avoid California safety recall

:[Arrow points to glass:]
:Years-long negotiation with glass supplier

:[A double arrow is placed above the center of the glass, ending on two lines above the edges of the glass:]
:4 hours of meetings

:[Two arrow points on either side of the lamp's stem:]
:9 hours of meetings

:[Two arrow, one pointing up at the bottom and the other down at the inside bottom of the glass:]
:Months of tip-over testing

:[An arrow points to the lamp information sticker on the bottom part of the lamps base. Unreadable text can be seen as thins lines on the sticker:]
:Ongoing debate

:[An arrow points to the front edge of the desk, ending in a starburst on the edge:]
:Wood source changed due to 20 year legal fight over logging in the Great Bear rainforest

:[Arrow points to the switch on the lamps cord which can be seen going over the right edge of the table and hanging down below the table. The switch can be seen just under the table edge:]
:Argument over putting switch on cord got someone fired

:[Caption under the panel:]
:Sometimes I get overwhelmed thinking about the amount of work that went into the ordinary objects around me.

{{comic discussion}}

1741: Work

2016-10-05T03:43:56Z

Jeudi Violist: /* Individual Design Elements */

{{comic
| number = 1741
| date = October 3, 2016
| title = Work
| image = work.png
| titletext = Despite it being imaginary, I already have SUCH a strong opinion on the cord-switch firing incident.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Table still needs Wiki links.}}
This comic details a set of theoretical examples of how much work went into the design and manufacture of everyday objects. The joke centers around the fact that most people in modern times are constantly surrounded with human-built objects, which we generally use without giving them much thought. [[Randall]] implies that he occasionally imagines what went into seemingly simple objects around him (like water glasses and desk lamps), and finds it overwhelming. This is because there are so many built items around us, many of which are inexpensive and mass-produced, which nonetheless resulted from a great deal of human effort. (This is similar to the thesis of the classic essay ''[http://www.econlib.org/library/Essays/rdPncl1.html I, Pencil]'', except that while ''I, Pencil'' idealizes manufacture and commerce to argue for the free market and against regulation, the comic focuses on details that are far more human or based in bureaucratic or government red tape.) Presumably, this kind of realization is more likely for people who've worked in design and engineering, like Randall, because they have some insight into what's involved in bringing a product to market. Also people who sit around all day wondering what could be funny, like Randall, could also end up in such a thought spiral. The comment about California recalls is based on the tags on products that often state "This item has been known by the state of California to cause..."

There's a double joke in the title as the first thing most people will think of, when seeing such a table with a {{w|Balanced-arm lamp}}, is that this is a ''work desk'' rather than about all the '''work''' put into making the desk and lamp. The potential implication is that Randall is so distracted imagining the work that went into creating his workspace that he can't get his own work done, hence the title.

The argument over putting the switch on the cord getting someone fired hits on another aspect of the design issue. Companies that design and manufacture goods will inevitably have human conflicts, where decisions will be argued over, and human personalities and office politics will impact the final design.

In the title text Randall states that this incidence is imaginary (his imagination) but he has apparently come up with an entire fictional narrative about the conflict over whether to put the lamp's switch on the lamp body itself, or to attach it to the lamp's power cord. And now he has SUCH a strong opinion about the firing incident.

This may because he also has a strong opinion about who was right, which could make him angry if that person was the one getting fired. As the lamp on his desk is with the switch on the cord, and as it seems Randall really dislikes such lamps, this would make sense, as it would probably be the one wishing to put the switch on the body who were fired. Alternatively it could have been the one who put the switch on the wire that was fired later, when they got poor on-line reviews... Randall's distaste for lamps where the switch is on the cord is also mentioned in the title text of [[1036: Reviews]]. Using the lamp as shown on this desk would make it annoying with the switch on the cord, as it will be hard to reach under the table, when sitting at the desk. Often such lamps have the switch either at the main body or on the head of the lamp. That would make it easy to reach it while sitting at the desk.

A similar theme of the unseen contributions of engineers is found in [[277: Long Light]], including the title text: "You can look at practically any part of anything manmade around you and think 'some engineer was frustrated while designing this.' It's a little human connection." This fits in well with Randall's annoyance with a switch on the cord.

==Individual Design Elements==
{| class="wikitable"
|+Individual Design Elements
!Description
!Explanation
|-
|An engineer worked late drawing this curve in AutoCAD || AutoCAD is a popular software package for doing computer-aided design. Curves in three dimensions are notable for being much more difficult than straight lines, and this curve in particular needs to be revolved around a line and the engineer would need to ensure it correctly interfaces.
|-
|Extra vents added to avoid California safety recall || Lamps can get very hot, especially if an incandescent bulb is installed, possibly causing injury. Additional vents can improve air circulation, allowing the lamp to run cooler. The US state of California is known for its many safety regulations. California is notable for having strict safety requirements for every product, to the point that Disneyland's front entrance is recently required to have a cancer warning.
|-
|9 hours of meetings || Any product development requires several meetings about coordination for any aspect of the design, especially critical ones that can affect other subsystems in the device, such as the flexible stem in this lamp. Its size is affected by the wiring requirements, strength requirements, intersections with both the base and the lamp head. The material, properties, color, manufacturing process, and so on also have to be determined for something as simple as this.
|-
|Ongoing debate || Designers frequently disagree about what is important enough to be put on the label, where the label needs to be put, which laws apply, and so on.
|-
|Years-long negotiation with glass supplier || Many products have to go through many stages of negotiations before the company can have the required supplies to build the product. The joke here is that glass is a common material{{Citation needed}} and thus, no company should have had to spend years on something that trivial. Or, more likely, it's just a commentary on how long it takes to negotiate with other supplier businesses about things that the average consumer sees trivial: it ''can'' take months or years when outsourcing to determine and contract which kind of glass, how much, what price, what happens when base materials change in price, what other kinds of glass are acceptable, what compounds are allowed around the glass during production, &c &c.
|-
|4 hours of meetings || It takes several meetings for the design team to fully determine and justify what size is best for the market, and to relay this information to the rest of the company. Then, they receive feedback on what is or isn't acceptable, frequently by people who don't know exactly ''why'', so they have to return again for another meeting for further clarification.
|-
|Months of tip-over testing || The thicker the base of a glass is, the lower its center of gravity is, and the heavier it is. A balance between stability and ease of handling must be reached. In addition, testing generally takes longer than the consumer expects, and every variation must be tested to determine which one performs the most acceptably.
|-
|Wood source changed due to 20 year legal fight over logging in the Great Bear rainforest || The Great Bear rainforest is a temperate rainforest on Vancouver Island in British Columbia, Canada. The government of British Columbia recently announced an agreement to protect 85% of this forest from commercial logging.
|-
|Argument over putting switch on cord got someone fired || Some people are really passionate about how convenient minor features are, while other people see those features as useless or that they make the product worse. If the designers can't come to a compromise or a consensus, the disagreement will eventually escalate into an argument until the supervisor eventually figures the heated and passive-aggressive disagreements aren't worth the value of the passionate designers.
|}

==Transcript==
:[A table is shown with a glass of water to the left and a lamp standard type desk lamp on the right. There are nine labels in relation to different parts of these three items. For each label, one or two arrows points to the relevant part. Five labels are written above the table, two on the table and two below the table between the front legs. These last two labels are causing the table legs to the rear to disappear, and also cuts the lamp cord, going beneath the table, in two. Below each label will be written under a description of what they point to going in normal reading order from left to right, two lines above, one line on and one line below the table.]

:[Arrow points a line that follow the curve of the lamps shade:]
:An engineer worked late drawing this curve in AutoCAD

:[Arrow points to back of lamp shade just above the stem. The shade has four visible vents on the front. The part the arrow points to is not visible:]
:Extra vents added to avoid California safety recall

:[Arrow points to glass:]
:Years-long negotiation with glass supplier

:[A double arrow is placed above the center of the glass, ending on two lines above the edges of the glass:]
:4 hours of meetings

:[Two arrow points on either side of the lamp's stem:]
:9 hours of meetings

:[Two arrow, one pointing up at the bottom and the other down at the inside bottom of the glass:]
:Months of tip-over testing

:[An arrow points to the lamp information sticker on the bottom part of the lamps base. Unreadable text can be seen as thins lines on the sticker:]
:Ongoing debate

:[An arrow points to the front edge of the desk, ending in a starburst on the edge:]
:Wood source changed due to 20 year legal fight over logging in the Great Bear rainforest

:[Arrow points to the switch on the lamps cord which can be seen going over the right edge of the table and hanging down below the table. The switch can be seen just under the table edge:]
:Argument over putting switch on cord got someone fired

:[Caption under the panel:]
:Sometimes I get overwhelmed thinking about the amount of work that went into the ordinary objects around me.

{{comic discussion}}

User:Jeudi Violist

2016-10-03T21:43:33Z

Jeudi Violist: Made this.

{{infobox
| bodyclass = vcard

| abovestyle = background-color:{{{bgcolour|#BCD4E6}}};
| aboveclass = fn
| above = {{{name|{{PAGENAME}}}}}

| labelstyle = line-height: 1.3em
| datastyle = line-height: 1.3em

| image = [http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii499/Mahonri_Violis/hats_zpstwnt6kco.png]
| caption = {{{caption|I'll make it an actual image and not a link to an image when I'm bored next}}}

| label1 = First appearance
| data1 = [[Main Page|Totes this page]]

| label2 = Favorite Comic
| data2 = [[Special:Random|This one]]

| label3 = Contribution score
| data3 = [[Special:ContributionScores|{{#cscore:Jeudi_Violist|score}}]]

| label4 = Pages edited
| data4 = [[Special:ContributionScores|{{#cscore:Jeudi_Violist|pages}}]]

| label5 = Changes made
| data5 = [[Special:ContributionScores|{{#cscore:Jeudi_Violist|changes}}]]
}}

Hey, look at you! You're here. Congratulations! Good job!

==Something About Myself==
*I'm studying medical device design in university. (Well. I'm a PhD student, and my degree will actually be in Mechanical Engineering, but...) Biomechanics is pretty cool; you should look into it.
*I've worked so far on several devices, but I can't talk about all of them. ;p Ever notice how the p in this font look weird? Anyway, in general, they've usually got to do with things like prostheses, implants, medical tools, x-ray machines, figure skating stuff, stovetop ovens, &c &c.

*I'm also a musician. I love me that dang Celtic music and them bluegrasses. Bossa nova is actually pretty lit, also. Not to mention blah blah blah, seriously I like them all so I could talk for hours about this.

*I do pretty much everything. If it's a thing, I do it. Fencing, Capoeira, mountain climbing, hiking, staring at the clouds, reading, writing, 'rithmatic, painting, translation, cursive, trying to transcribe things in languages I've never known, sports, wearing leather jackets, doing handstands and gymnastics, parkour, figure skating, climbing trees, mountain climbing, talking with people, dancing, breaking out into musicals at random, all the musics, anatomy, watching Disney movies, ... Literally, if it's a thing, then it's a thing.

*Apparently I'm a Slytherin, and an Aires, and of the Amnity faction, and a Thunderbird too. My patronus would be a stoat (which are literally the cutest ravenous bunny-eaters ever) and my wand would be a 12" Apple wood Unicorn-hair cored wand with slightly yielding flexibility. Also, I like the color green.

==Favorite Comics==
[[Special:Random|This one]] | [[Special:Random|This one also]] | [[Special:Random|That one]] | [[Special:Random|Maybe this one too]] | [[Special:Random|That one over there]] | [[Special:Random|This is also one]] | [[Special:Random|Prolly this one]] | [[Special:Random|I like this one]] | [[Special:Random|This one]] | [[Special:Random|You've got to check out this one]] | [[Special:Random|This one is pretty good]] | [[Special:Random|That one too]]

==External Links==
* Er...I got no sources, sorry.

Talk:1741: Work

2016-10-03T21:17:47Z

Jeudi Violist:

Whoa, I've never been early enough to beat the explanation before.
:To 173.245.50.82, please remember to sign your posts. --[[User:JayRulesXKCD|JayRulesXKCD]] ([[User talk:JayRulesXKCD|talk]]) 13:21, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

I wrote the transcript. Feel free to change it so it's not so bare and write the explanation. Thanks. --[[User:JayRulesXKCD|JayRulesXKCD]] ([[User talk:JayRulesXKCD|talk]]) 13:20, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

To prevent fire hazards, objects in California are not allowed to surpass a certain temperature, 140 °C if I'm correct . Can't find the actual law quick. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.114.230|162.158.114.230]] 18:01, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

I think Randall underestimates the problem. I used to work for the research arm of the electronics multinational, Philips. When a product design was "finished", it had to go to a special committee who decided where, exactly, on the product did the word "PHILIPS" and their little shield logo go - and (rarely) whether these things should be done in black or white. It was VERY frequently the case that the committee would take longer to come to a conclusion than the product took to design. [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 20:32, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

I often wonder about those tiny, cheap plastic toys that come in Xmas crackers (UK) or the 25 cent toy vending machines (USA). They are completely crappy things - but thinking that someone thought about what kind of toy should be made - then designed the shape of it, thought about the color of plastic to use, spent tens of thousands of dollars machining an injection mold for it - and STILL turned out a complete piece of junk...it's anyone's guess what effort that took. I know it costs around $40,000 to make a mold like that - but those toys look like someone who was being paid very, very little, spent no more than an afternoon designing each one! [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 20:32, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

What a coincidence. I just got out of my Product Development class. I remember having to deal with so many of these things that it's completely relatable. [[User:Jeudi Violist|Jeudi Violist]] ([[User talk:Jeudi Violist|talk]]) 21:17, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

1741: Work

2016-10-03T21:15:26Z

Jeudi Violist: /* Individual Design Elements */

{{comic
| number = 1741
| date = October 3, 2016
| title = Work
| image = work.png
| titletext = Despite it being imaginary, I already have SUCH a strong opinion on the cord-switch firing incident.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Table still needs to be filled out.}}
This comic details a set of theoretical examples of how much work went into the design and manufacture of everyday objects. The joke centers around the fact that most people in modern times are constantly surrounded with human-built objects, which we generally use without giving them much thought. [[Randall]] implies that he occasionally imagines what went into seemingly simple objects around him (like water glasses and desk lamps), and finds it overwhelming. This is because there are so many built items around us, many of which are inexpensive and mass-produced, which nonetheless resulted from a great deal of human effort. (This is similar to the thesis of the classic essay ''[http://www.econlib.org/library/Essays/rdPncl1.html I, Pencil]''). Presumably, this kind of realization is more likely for people who've worked in design and engineering, like Randall, because they have some insight into what's involved in bringing a product to market. Also people who sit around all day wondering what could be funny, like Randall, could also end up in such a thought spiral. The comment about California recalls is based on the tags on products that often state "This item has been known by the state of California to cause..."

There's a double joke in the title as the first thing most people will think of when seeing such a table with such a [[Balanced-arm lamp|lamp]], they will think of a work desk rather than the work put into making the desk and lamp. The potential implication is that Randall is so distracted imagining the work that went into creating his workspace that he can't get his own work done, hence the title.

The title text hits another aspect of the design issue. Companies that design and manufacture goods will inevitably have human conflicts, where decisions will be argued over, and human personalities and office politics will impact the final design. Randall has apparently come up with an entire fictional narrative about a conflict over whether to put the lamp's switch on the lamp body itself, or to attach it to the lamp's power cord, and developed a strong opinion about who was right, and is angry that the other part was fired, since he really seems to dislike lamps with the switch on the cord as in this comic. Randall's distaste for lamps where the switch is on the cord is also mentioned in the title text of [[1036: Reviews]].

A similar theme of the unseen contributions of engineers is found in [[277: Long Light]], including the title text: "You can look at practically any part of anything manmade around you and think 'some engineer was frustrated while designing this.' It's a little human connection." This fits in well with Randall's annoyance with a switch on the cord.

==Individual Design Elements==
{| class="wikitable"
|+Individual Design Elements
!Description
!Explanation
|-
|An engineer worked late drawing this curve in AutoCAD || AutoCAD is a popular software package for doing computer-aided design. Curves are notable for being much more difficult than straight lines.
|-
|Extra vents added to avoid California safety recall || Lamps can get very hot, especially if an incandescent bulb is installed, possibly causing injury. Additional vents can improve air circulation, allowing the lamp to run cooler. The US state of California is known for its many safety regulations. California is notable for having strict safety requirements for every product, to the point that Disneyland's front entrance is recently required to have a cancer warning.
|-
|9 hours of meetings || Any product development requires several meetings about coordination for any aspect of the design, especially critical ones that can affect other subsystems in the device, such as the flexible stem in this lamp. Its size is affected by the wiring requirements, strength requirements, intersections with both the base and the lamp head. The material, properties, color, manufacturing process, and so on also have to be determined for something as simple as this.
|-
|Ongoing debate || Designers frequently disagree about what is important enough to be put on the label, where the label needs to be put, which laws apply, and so on.
|-
|Years-long negotiation with glass supplier || Many products have to go through many stages of negotiations before the company can have the required supplies to build the product. The joke here is that glass is a common material{{Citation needed}} and thus, no company should have had to spend years on something that trivial. Or, more likely, it's just a commentary on how long it takes to negotiate with other supplier businesses about things that the average consumer sees trivial: it ''can'' take months or years when outsourcing to determine and contract which kind of glass, how much, what price, what happens when base materials change in price, what other kinds of glass are acceptable, what compounds are allowed around the glass during production, &c &c.
|-
|4 hours of meetings || It takes several meetings for the design team to fully determine and justify what size is best for the market, and to relay this information to the rest of the company. Then, they receive feedback on what is or isn't acceptable, frequently by people who don't know exactly ''why'', so they have to return again for another meeting for further clarification.
|-
|Months of tip-over testing || The thicker the base of a glass is, the lower its center of gravity is, and the heavier it is. A balance between stability and ease of handling must be reached. In addition, testing generally takes longer than the consumer expects, and every variation must be tested to determine which one performs the most acceptably.
|-
|Wood source changed due to 20 year legal fight over logging in the Great Bear rainforest || The Great Bear rainforest is a temperate rainforest on Vancouver Island in British Columbia, Canada. The government of British Columbia recently announced an agreement to protect 85% of this forest from commercial logging.
|-
|Argument over putting switch on cord got someone fired || Some people are really passionate about how convenient cord-switches are (or any other minor feature), while other people see those features as useless or that they make the product worse. If the designers can't come to a compromise or a consensus, the disagreement will eventually escalate into an argument until the supervisor eventually figures the heated and passive-aggressive disagreements aren't worth the value of the passionate designers.
|}

==Transcript==
:[A table is shown with a glass of water to the left and a lamp standard type desk lamp on the right. There are nine labels in relation to different parts of these three items. For each label, one or two arrows points to the relevant part. Five labels are written above the table, two on the table and two below the table between the front legs. These last two labels are causing the table legs to the rear to disappear, and also cuts the lamp cord, going beneath the table, in two. Below each label will be written under a description of what they point to going in normal reading order from left to right, two lines above, one line on and one line below the table.]

:[Arrow points a line that follow the curve of the lamps shade:]
:An engineer worked late drawing this curve in AutoCAD

:[Arrow points to back of lamp shade just above the stem. The shade has four visible vents on the front. The part the arrow points to is not visible:]
:Extra vents added to avoid California safety recall

:[Arrow points to glass:]
:Years-long negotiation with glass supplier

:[A double arrow is placed above the center of the glass, ending on two lines above the edges of the glass:]
:4 hours of meetings

:[Two arrow points on either side of the lamp's stem:]
:9 hours of meetings

:[Two arrow, one pointing up at the bottom and the other down at the inside bottom of the glass:]
:Months of tip-over testing

:[An arrow points to the lamp information sticker on the bottom part of the lamps base. Unreadable text can be seen as thins lines on the sticker:]
:Ongoing debate

:[An arrow points to the front edge of the desk, ending in a starburst on the edge:]
:Wood source changed due to 20 year legal fight over logging in the Great Bear rainforest

:[Arrow points to the switch on the lamps cord which can be seen going over the right edge of the table and hanging down below the table. The switch can be seen just under the table edge:]
:Argument over putting switch on cord got someone fired

:[Caption under the panel:]
:Sometimes I get overwhelmed thinking about the amount of work that went into the ordinary objects around me.

{{comic discussion}}

1741: Work

2016-10-03T21:13:06Z

Jeudi Violist: /* Individual Design Elements */

{{comic
| number = 1741
| date = October 3, 2016
| title = Work
| image = work.png
| titletext = Despite it being imaginary, I already have SUCH a strong opinion on the cord-switch firing incident.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Table still needs to be filled out.}}
This comic details a set of theoretical examples of how much work went into the design and manufacture of everyday objects. The joke centers around the fact that most people in modern times are constantly surrounded with human-built objects, which we generally use without giving them much thought. [[Randall]] implies that he occasionally imagines what went into seemingly simple objects around him (like water glasses and desk lamps), and finds it overwhelming. This is because there are so many built items around us, many of which are inexpensive and mass-produced, which nonetheless resulted from a great deal of human effort. (This is similar to the thesis of the classic essay ''[http://www.econlib.org/library/Essays/rdPncl1.html I, Pencil]''). Presumably, this kind of realization is more likely for people who've worked in design and engineering, like Randall, because they have some insight into what's involved in bringing a product to market. Also people who sit around all day wondering what could be funny, like Randall, could also end up in such a thought spiral. The comment about California recalls is based on the tags on products that often state "This item has been known by the state of California to cause..."

There's a double joke in the title as the first thing most people will think of when seeing such a table with such a [[Balanced-arm lamp|lamp]], they will think of a work desk rather than the work put into making the desk and lamp. The potential implication is that Randall is so distracted imagining the work that went into creating his workspace that he can't get his own work done, hence the title.

The title text hits another aspect of the design issue. Companies that design and manufacture goods will inevitably have human conflicts, where decisions will be argued over, and human personalities and office politics will impact the final design. Randall has apparently come up with an entire fictional narrative about a conflict over whether to put the lamp's switch on the lamp body itself, or to attach it to the lamp's power cord, and developed a strong opinion about who was right, and is angry that the other part was fired, since he really seems to dislike lamps with the switch on the cord as in this comic. Randall's distaste for lamps where the switch is on the cord is also mentioned in the title text of [[1036: Reviews]].

A similar theme of the unseen contributions of engineers is found in [[277: Long Light]], including the title text: "You can look at practically any part of anything manmade around you and think 'some engineer was frustrated while designing this.' It's a little human connection." This fits in well with Randall's annoyance with a switch on the cord.

==Individual Design Elements==
{| class="wikitable"
|+Individual Design Elements
!Description
!Explanation
|-
|An engineer worked late drawing this curve in AutoCAD || AutoCAD is a popular software package for doing computer-aided design. Curves are notable for being much more difficult than straight lines.
|-
|Extra vents added to avoid California safety recall || Lamps can get very hot, especially if an incandescent bulb is installed, possibly causing injury. Additional vents can improve air circulation, allowing the lamp to run cooler. The US state of California is known for its many safety regulations. California is notable for having strict safety requirements for every product, to the point that Disneyland's front entrance is recently required to have a cancer warning.
|-
|9 hours of meetings || Any product development requires several meetings about coordination for any aspect of the design, especially critical ones that can affect other subsystems in the device, such as the flexible stem in this lamp. Its size is affected by the wiring requirements, strength requirements, intersections with both the base and the lamp head. The material, properties, color, manufacturing process, and so on also have to be determined for something as simple as this.
|-
|Ongoing debate || Designers frequently disagree about what is important enough to be put on the label, where the label needs to be put, which laws apply, and so on.
|-
|Years-long negotiation with glass supplier || Many products have to go through many stages of negotiations before the company can have the required supplies to build the product. The joke here is that glass is a common material{{Citation needed}} and thus, no company should have had to spend years on something that trivial. Or, more likely, it's just a commentary on how long it takes to negotiate with other businesses about things that the average consumer sees trivial: it ''can'' take months or years when outsourcing to determine and contract which kind of glass, how much, what price, what happens when base materials change in price, what other kinds of glass are acceptable, what compounds are allowed around the glass during production, &c &c.
|-
|4 hours of meetings || It takes several meetings for the design team to fully determine and justify what size is best for the market, and to relay this information to the rest of the company. Then, they receive feedback on what is or isn't acceptable, frequently by people who don't know exactly ''why'', so they have to return again for another meeting for further clarification.
|-
|Months of tip-over testing || The thicker the base of a glass is, the lower its center of gravity is, and the heavier it is. A balance between stability and ease of handling must be reached..
|-
|Wood source changed due to 20 year legal fight over logging in the Great Bear rainforest || The Great Bear rainforest is a temperate rainforest on Vancouver Island in British Columbia, Canada. The government of British Columbia recently announced an agreement to protect 85% of this forest from commercial logging.
|-
|Argument over putting switch on cord got someone fired || Some people are really passionate about how convenient cord-switches are (or any other minor feature), while other people see those features as useless or that they make the product worse. If the designers can't come to a compromise or a consensus, the disagreement will eventually escalate into an argument until the supervisor eventually figures the heated and passive-aggressive disagreements aren't worth the value of the passionate designers.
|}

==Transcript==
:[A table is shown with a glass of water to the left and a lamp standard type desk lamp on the right. There are nine labels in relation to different parts of these three items. For each label, one or two arrows points to the relevant part. Five labels are written above the table, two on the table and two below the table between the front legs. These last two labels are causing the table legs to the rear to disappear, and also cuts the lamp cord, going beneath the table, in two. Below each label will be written under a description of what they point to going in normal reading order from left to right, two lines above, one line on and one line below the table.]

:[Arrow points a line that follow the curve of the lamps shade:]
:An engineer worked late drawing this curve in AutoCAD

:[Arrow points to back of lamp shade just above the stem. The shade has four visible vents on the front. The part the arrow points to is not visible:]
:Extra vents added to avoid California safety recall

:[Arrow points to glass:]
:Years-long negotiation with glass supplier

:[A double arrow is placed above the center of the glass, ending on two lines above the edges of the glass:]
:4 hours of meetings

:[Two arrow points on either side of the lamp's stem:]
:9 hours of meetings

:[Two arrow, one pointing up at the bottom and the other down at the inside bottom of the glass:]
:Months of tip-over testing

:[An arrow points to the lamp information sticker on the bottom part of the lamps base. Unreadable text can be seen as thins lines on the sticker:]
:Ongoing debate

:[An arrow points to the front edge of the desk, ending in a starburst on the edge:]
:Wood source changed due to 20 year legal fight over logging in the Great Bear rainforest

:[Arrow points to the switch on the lamps cord which can be seen going over the right edge of the table and hanging down below the table. The switch can be seen just under the table edge:]
:Argument over putting switch on cord got someone fired

:[Caption under the panel:]
:Sometimes I get overwhelmed thinking about the amount of work that went into the ordinary objects around me.

{{comic discussion}}

Talk:1721: Business Idea

2016-08-17T22:20:24Z

Jeudi Violist:

Fixed as of 11:35 UTC, the old comic is now named "'''My''' Business Idea" [[Special:Contributions/162.158.203.141|162.158.203.141]] 11:32, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
:Same person, just want to note the forum is a little behind. It was 11:35 according to Google, and the timestamp on the signature said 11:32. Posting this at 11:39 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.203.141|162.158.203.141]] 11:36, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
::ExplainXKCD is still showing the image for 827. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.62|173.245.52.62]] 14:02, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
:::As far as I can tell, everything's been fixed now. I removed the warning in the incomplete tag. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.218.107|108.162.218.107]] 15:07, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure there's been a naming overlap or something because https://xkcd.com/827/ and http://xkcd.com/1721/ are showing the same image
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.250.157|108.162.250.157]] 04:13, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

So when I first read the strip, I thought there was snakes coming out of that gas station. Then, I thought the business idea was to replace gas in cars with snakes. This happen to anyone else? [[User:Jeudi Violist|Jeudi Violist]] ([[User talk:Jeudi Violist|talk]]) 22:20, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

== Randall done goofed ==

He accidentally named TWO comics "Business Idea". This one and comic 827 (https://xkcd.com/827/). Because his comics are stored by name, not id, he has two "business_idea.png"s. The newer replaced the older one, but explain-xkcd has the original, probably due to the way either one is stored.
:I'm honestly surprised Randall would make a mistake like this. Like shouldn't he have a list and a script that automatically checks wether a title was already used? --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.133.66|162.158.133.66]] 09:25, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
::Or simply append/prepend the comic number to the image name, that way you can't have duplicates.

What should we do? Contact Randall? {{unsigned ip|108.162.219.10}}
:Check the fora. Let him know he broke 827(http://i.imgur.com/0LTTpmJ.png) if he doesn't know already. I'm too lazy. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.110|108.162.245.110]] 04:35, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
:Store it on the wiki as a jpeg and differentiate that way. --[[Special:Contributions/173.245.48.89|173.245.48.89]] 04:59, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

The older comic has now been renamed as "My Business Idea", and is back up again. [[User:Zorlax the Mighty|Zorlax the Mighty'); DROP TABLE users;--]] ([[User talk:Zorlax the Mighty|talk]]) 11:34, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

Great. I tried to fix the issue by renaming the old comic (both page and file), but it now has the old version cached and shows it on both comics' pages... --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 14:05, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

== Explanation for us users from countries with different fueling systems ==
In Germany and many other countries, the gas pumps actually have a separate hose per fuel type, so many fans of xkcd might not be able to understand this comic. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.83.162|162.158.83.162]] 05:18, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
: Yes, because many of us use Diesel, and you should not mix diesel and petrol. But it's no problem to mix small quantities of regular into premium or vice versa. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.86.161|162.158.86.161]] 09:06, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
:: Not just diesel and petrol - every kind of fuel sold (usually 4 per pump - petrol/diesel x premium/regular, sometimes fast diesel pump for trucks instead of diesel premium) has a separate hose and pistol in Poland. You choose the fuel by choosing the pistol. I'm guessing it's the same in a large part of Europe at least. It didn't even occur to me that it could be done differently. I honestly thought it was part of the joke - that Cueball doesn't even know that. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.86.119|162.158.86.119]] 10:07, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
::: I'm really surprised, too. How DOES a system work where the customer can presumably switch between the kinds of gas he fills in his tank? And where is such a system installed? The States, I suppose, but where else? For international readers, this should definitely be part of the explanation. Is there a convenient weblink that shows the differences between countries' gas stations, or a weblink that shows this unique setup that Randall takes for granted here? --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.83.72|162.158.83.72]] 10:50, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

== Beret Guy? ==
Is this Cueball, or Beret Guy with his hat off? [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 08:22, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
: Unlikely. Wasn't Beret Guy's hat stapled? --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.86.119|162.158.86.119]] 10:07, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
: If it was Beret Guy he most likely would have had (inexplicable) success with this idea. [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 10:13, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

== "Pay it forward" at Starbucks ==

This is actually about Starbucks, where customers - depending on the place, of course, as I've never seen it in Switzerland - are asked to pay some bucks for the next customer. You are expected to pay something "forward".

This idea originates from Italy, where you can buy a "caffè sospeso", a "suspended café". Somebody in need can walk up to the bar tender and ask for a free coffee. And yes, it disgusts me that this good idea was taken over by hipsters.--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.150.228|162.158.150.228]] 11:20, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

:I think you may be seeing something that is not in the comic. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.119|108.162.246.119]] 13:53, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

:I know what you're talking about, and it usually happens with one spontaneous and kind person starting a chain reaction, not corporate encouragement. This would both go against your statement and the comic itself (as they both suggest the company intervening).

== Fuel mixture quality ==

Knowing about the oil industry myself and how oil is transported... different qualities of oil are separated by having different densities, however, some mixture where the two products are touching is unavoidable.

This is relevant because the non-premium gas actually has a certain amount of premium mixed in, and that's why the octane rating is a minimum.

In other words, oil companies already account for the mixing of qualities.

Talk:1675: Message in a Bottle

2016-05-02T20:03:34Z

Jeudi Violist:

The title text reminds me of the song {{w|Message in a Bottle (song)|Message in a Bottle}} by Police. ;-) Maybe enough that it should be part of the explanation? [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:30, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

: Why not? Seems to fit the description. [[User:Jacoder23|Jacoder23]] ([[User talk:Jacoder23|talk]]) 14:07, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

It may be worth mentioning that in certain mailing lists or mass emails people use "reply all" to unsubscribe or otherwise request being removed from the recipients list of future messages; meaning everyone else's inbox gets clogged with unsubscribe requests even though the message only needed to go to the originator. (The best part is the people who reply all to tell the other people to stop using reply all.) [[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.242|108.162.237.242]] 14:14, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

Isn't there another xkcd comic involving messages in a bottle? I feel like this comic might be related to that one but I cannot find the other one. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.68.83|162.158.68.83]] 14:19, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

If we're talking about problems to do with reply to all and mailing list, this story is always a good read: https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/exchange/2004/04/08/me-too/ [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.54|141.101.98.54]] 14:22, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

Transcript: The curvy writing might also indicate that the paper was not kept perfectly dry inside the bottle. --[[Special:Contributions/198.41.242.240|198.41.242.240]] 15:39, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

The explanation of the main comic doesn't seem to provide much of an explanation. Here's how I read the comic:

: This comic is about how hard it is to unsubscribe from some email lists. 'Unsubscribe' links often don't work (perhaps intentionally). In desperation, someone has tried to send their 'unsubscribe' request in a bottle, hoping in vain that it will have its intended effect. Instead, Cueball receives it. The title-text slightly shifts the premise: now Cueball is the intended recipient, an incompetent email list operator who replies in the wrong way, triggering the problem described in the current title-text explanation. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.70.229|141.101.70.229]] 16:03, 2 May 2016 (UTC) Adam

So, quick story about me! I'm in charge of the email list and sending emails for the fencing club I'm in. I make sure to include a "click here to unsubscribe" link at the bottom of every email, as well as instructions on how to unsubscribe without using the link (because I'm using a Google Groups to manage the list). I've even tested the link several times with my own email. However, in spite of this, every couple weeks somebody sends a "reply all" Unsubscribe request from somebody who joined the email list before I was in charge of it. It gets pretty annoying, actually, since everybody ends up getting more of these "reply all" unsubscribe requests than actual emails from the club. Plus, it's easier for them to remove themselves from the email list than it is for me to remove them.
Most of the time, I just respond with an email from my own account (so there's no danger of accidentally replying to everyone) saying "Hey. If you look at the email, there's instructions on how to unsubscribe. If you can't figure out the instructions, here's my email (_________@___.__). Please tell me what's confusing about the instructions so I can improve them." I can relate to this comic, though. Pretty funny. End story time.
[[User:Jeudi Violist|Jeudi Violist]] ([[User talk:Jeudi Violist|talk]]) 20:03, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

Talk:1642: Gravitational Waves

2016-02-12T19:45:57Z

Jeudi Violist:

"Local group" refers to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Group. Lonely singles (black holes?) meeting on a galactic scale would produce another gravitational event. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.223|162.158.90.223]] 21:39, 11 February 2016 (UTC) Christoph Berg

Should we add a Trivia section regarding the fact that this comic was posted outside the normal M-W-F schedule? [[User:Edo|Edo]] ([[User talk:Edo|talk]]) 23:03, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Should there be some kind of mention of the possibility (or lack thereof) of artificial gravity waves being used for long-distance communicaiton? --[[User:Joshupetersen|Joshupetersen]] ([[User talk:Joshupetersen|talk]]) 23:41, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

I'm not sure everyone knows what the solar mass symbol looks like. [[User:Thaledison|Thaledison]] ([[User talk:Thaledison|talk]]) 23:51, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

I think the explanation needs a bit more on the analogy that humans rely heavily on electromagnetic waves for communication. It is reasonable to expect aliens to use gravitational waves for the same as the theoretical basis for encoding messages would likely not need to be change. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.221|162.158.91.221]] 08:29, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
: Please go ahead and edit it, I'm done for now. I've added lots of stuff. This is the first comic I've tried explaining in full, and it has become quite big. ;-) So far I was only doing small edits here and there... [[Special:Contributions/199.27.130.216|199.27.130.216]] 09:16, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
: EDIT - I added a sentence about it. Please do any further edits if you like... [[Special:Contributions/199.27.130.216|199.27.130.216]] 09:24, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
:I think this has something to do with [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Google_Wave |Google Wave] or am I overthinking it? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.180.125|162.158.180.125]] 12:11, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
Odd for a massive-object-related comic to not contain a your-mom-joke reference. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.75.221|141.101.75.221]] 12:09, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

"Black hole merger in Carina (30 M☉, 30 M☉)" refers to the public announcement of the [http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/12/science/ligo-gravitational-waves-black-holes-einstein.html?_r=0 first detection ever made of gravity waves] from the LIGO-VIRGO experiment. The announcement has been publicly done thursday 11 February 2016, the same day the drawing has been done. This is not a "Possibly legitimate result", but a scientifically proved legitimate result. The drawing has been done in honor to that major scientific first ever observation (which will probably lead to a Nobel Price). --[[Special:Contributions/173.245.49.24|173.245.49.24]] 15:04, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

"Zorlax is a kid's television gameshow, based on time travel", and "Formed billions of years ago in the earths core, cursed to be but a floating head, gifted with a knowledge of the ages and destined to be the master of time. He is '''the mighty... ZORLAX!'''" See [https://vimeo.com/7592641 here] and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdGGL0OrmFs here]. Maybe someone knows this kid's television gameshow. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 19:21, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

"One of the receivers is quite impressed with this and suggests that they have to reply to the spam just because the sender has made such an effort to send the message." This line: I actually interpreted the title text as worry rather than being impressed. If a cosmic being is moving around celestial bodies just to make a LinkedIn request and is making increasingly-intense messages, it might be best for the safety of whatever to prevent it from escalating any further. Am I the only one who understood it this way? [[User:Jeudi Violist|Jeudi Violist]] ([[User talk:Jeudi Violist|talk]]) 19:45, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Talk:1639: To Taste

2016-02-06T00:34:04Z

Jeudi Violist:

Seasoning is not an intermediate process which can't be repaired/re-done. you're left with an edible dish before and after. You add seasoning in small incremental steps, and the quality of the dish, or appropriateness of the taste improves monotonically, and additively. On the other hand, baking something for 5 minutes, and then another 5 minutes isn't the same as baking it for 10 minutes. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.49.78|162.158.49.78]] 09:54, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
: Yeah, but a beginner should be given an idea of what a basic incremental step is supposed to be, based on the number of servings in the recipe. One pinch? One (tea/table)spoon? One cup? One jug? One crate? - [[Special:Contributions/141.101.70.23|141.101.70.23]] 11:38, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
: Usually when it's said ''to taste'', which I guess corresponds to the Italian ''quanto basta'', it's referring to small amounts, so a beginner could just add a pinch per time until he finds the flavor is good. Whenever it's unnecessary, recipes shouldn't be specific; you don't have to grill a steak for exactly 5 or 10 minutes, just until it has the color and looks of a steak you think you may like; if you boil pasta, you taste a bit once a minute until the texture is good. --[[Special:Contributions/188.114.102.249|188.114.102.249]] 12:25, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
::: The joke is that this kind of knowledge is implied in recipes, it isn't spelled out. Which can be a problem for beginners. And good luck trying that approach when baking spiced bread. Or manufacturing soufflé. ;) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.114.138|162.158.114.138]] 13:15, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
::: Luckily, there are pastas which specify how long you are supposed to cook them on the package. Especially useful in case of those "fast" ones. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 13:57, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
: "Appropriateness" increases "monotonically" ... until it decreases again. :D [[Special:Contributions/162.158.114.138|162.158.114.138]] 13:15, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
: Try preparing two slow cook dishes but in one add all the seasoning at the end before serving. You will now know that seasoning can be very integral to the process and if added in wrong quantities at the wrong time can ruin a dish.--[[User:R0hrshach|R0hrshach]] ([[User talk:R0hrshach|talk]]) 17:11, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
: '''''De gustibus non disputandum est.''''' — [[RAGBRAIvet]]

I can't tell if Randall is reading too many cookbooks or if he just has... Too many cooks[[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.54|108.162.221.54]] 13:46, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

Maybe he obtained enough sugar so his sample size would be sufficient for scientific experimentation on what to taste means.[[User:Thaledison|Thaledison]] ([[User talk:Thaledison|talk]]) 14:02, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

In my experience, the instructions "add _____ to taste" usually are referring to salt, not sugar. And from comic #1637, we all know Cueball has access to virtually an unlimited quantity of salt! [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.252|173.245.54.252]] 14:55, 5 February 2016 (UTC)Sam

Why is he bringing in the sugar backwards? Perhaps he doesn't know how to properly use a dolly?
[[User:Bsellnow|Bsellnow]] ([[User talk:Bsellnow|talk]]) 19:37, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
:Maybe he just came up the stairs? There's loads of houses that have stairs (or, frequently, a single stair) between the kitchen and the back porch/food storage area/front porch/garage/attic/wherever else you'll get sugar from. Plus, since the sugar was stacked so high it was leaning against his face, there's no way he'd be able to see if he was walking forwards. I think, really, his biggest sin is that he stacked the boxes to an unsafe level. [[User:Jeudi Violist|Jeudi Violist]] ([[User talk:Jeudi Violist|talk]]) 00:34, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

Talk:1609: Food Combinations

2015-11-30T07:17:37Z

Jeudi Violist: I forgot to mention something.

I tried this on a friend and after three tries she said, you just mentioned all my favorite food items. So... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:27, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

You know what's really good? Ice cream on pizza. [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 15:23, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
:That's a popular summer snack in Tasmania. [[Special:Contributions/198.41.238.32|198.41.238.32]] 08:02, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

So nobody puts sour cream on pancakes??? {{unsigned ip|173.245.54.14}}

Joey agrees with that - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSFgDZJVYbo [[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.139|162.158.34.139]] 15:40, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
:Thanks I was just thinking of that episode when seeing this comic. Think it deserves a place in the explanation. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:06, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Well, I made a first-hack attempt, with terrible grammar and no appropriate citations. Please don't be too harsh! [[Special:Contributions/199.27.129.83|199.27.129.83]] 16:14, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Most of the combinations involving the dairy items are disgusting. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.9|108.162.216.9]] 19:29, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

If you think sour cream and pancakes is not a traditional combination, you've never been to Russia. We put sour cream in a lot of things, really, but pancakes especially. That applies almost as well to sour cream and ketchup (though that is just a pair of commonly combined condiments, not a food item in itself). I do, however, agree with the commentor above (even regarding sour cream). Incidentally, I had to google "relish" - apparently it's a general term for a big variety of chopped-vegetable items. The Russian name for one particularly common type literally translates as "eggplant caviar". Goes nicely with ham, is applied to pancakes occasionally. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.180.191|162.158.180.191]] 20:51, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
:FYI, pickle (that is to say, pickled cucumber) relish is generally what people from the US mean when referring to relish. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.59|108.162.216.59]] 05:05, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

It will be interesting to see if all items will be checked of eventually when people from many different countries comes by? I checked of pancakes and ice cream. I put ice in almost every time I make sweet pancakes. Yummy. But we also have "food" pancakes (not sweat) with meat in them. And I'm note talking about tortillas or burrito pancakes. Made exactly like normal sweet pancakes without sugar and with salt. In The Netherlands they have pancake houses where the toppings is more like that of a pizza, and then after wards they drop on some kind of syrup... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:06, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Avocado and ice cream is traditional? Really? I mean, the novelty ice cream places (bacon ice cream, beer ice cream, Tabasco ice cream, you know the drill), sure, but where is that a traditional pairing? ... However, I'm putting in another vote for sour cream with pancakes. Especially if you consider crêpes and associated acts as in the pancake category, so there's the whole world of savory pancakes out there. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.7|108.162.221.7]] 04:16, 28 November 2015 (UTC)MR
:I have removed avocado and ice cream. That cannot be thought of as traditional even if someone actually likes it. I do not know if you could think of pancakes and sour cream as traditional. But again if you think of them both as sweat and food pancakes (as already is the case, then maybe...) I will not list it though as I do not feel it is traditional. But I would also not delete it if anyone else feels it is. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 10:41, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
:Sorry, that was me. Wasn't aware that this had to be exclusively limited to food items from the US, but anyway was thinking about the avocado icecream here (taluwang.com.my). It's quite popular where I come from and quite delicious, actually. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.153.137|162.158.153.137]] 14:13, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
:Avocado ice cream is also eaten occasionally in Brazil. Admittedly, Brazil isn't the United States. However, a simple Google Search of "Avocado Ice Cream" brings up dozens of very different recipes (including an avocado coconut ice cream that I really have to try). In addition, the table of traditional pairings says "it should mainly be combinations that are common in the US". If it said "combinations exclusively in the US" then I could see justifiably removing Avocado Ice Cream. However, since there are multiple countries that it is both popular and commonly eaten ''and'' literally millions of hits show up in English if you search it in Google, I would say that it counts. (That's not even including the smoothies and shakes that include avocado and ice cream). [[User:Jeudi Violist|Jeudi Violist]] ([[User talk:Jeudi Violist|talk]]) 07:13, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

At least five of those alleged "individually good" so-called "foods" - relish, ketchup, cheese, sour cream, and avocado - are absolutely disgusting and would destroy any food value of things they came in contact with. YMMV.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.33|108.162.221.33]] 09:46, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
:Well I also do not like avocado or sour cream and neither most forms of eggs plus only a few kind of cheese. But I know that many people really love these items, and that would not make it a bad combination to put sour cream and avocado together. I just would not wish to eat it for my personal taste. That I do not like it, does not make it disgusting. But I would be sorry if someone tried to make me eat it. But not get disgusted because other people eat it in front of me. Disgusting things are something like rat or excrements... ;-) And this has to be taken into account before anyone changes the table above. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 10:37, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

There's some "almost something I've seen" combinations, in the above. For example, while I've never had Ham And Avocado, Ham And Pineapple is not uncommon. (Of course, now we're also into neighbouring territory of "does pineapple belong on a pizza?" ;) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.152.227|162.158.152.227]] 16:39, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Err, what? Ketchup flavored chips hard to come by in the US? I've yet to see a single supermarket that didn't have a large quantity of Herr's Ketchup Chips. And I live in the american Northeast.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.59|108.162.216.59]] 05:00, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

"Pairings" is itself a bit ambiguous, but I'd vote that none of cupcakes/sour cream, pancakes/cheese nor eggs/ relish are traditional pairings. Pancakes with sour cream may well edge in as blinis, but only by counting blinis (and crepes?) within pancakes. Some others are perhaps a little more likely, but still would not make my personal cut as a traditional pairing -- ice cream/ hot chocolate & ham/relish would fail, and if we count hot chocolate/pancakes as OK because they may both be part of a breakfast, then why not hot chocolate/eggs? [[User:Miamiclay|Miamiclay]] ([[User talk:Miamiclay|talk]]) 20:40, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

In my experience, all combinations of individually-good foods are only bad if you go into it expecting them to be. Speaking of which, I highly recommend putting creamy peanut butter and slices of banana on a burger.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.60|108.162.216.60]] 05:21, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Talk:1609: Food Combinations

2015-11-30T07:15:48Z

Jeudi Violist: grammar

I tried this on a friend and after three tries she said, you just mentioned all my favorite food items. So... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:27, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

You know what's really good? Ice cream on pizza. [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 15:23, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
:That's a popular summer snack in Tasmania. [[Special:Contributions/198.41.238.32|198.41.238.32]] 08:02, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

So nobody puts sour cream on pancakes??? {{unsigned ip|173.245.54.14}}

Joey agrees with that - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSFgDZJVYbo [[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.139|162.158.34.139]] 15:40, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
:Thanks I was just thinking of that episode when seeing this comic. Think it deserves a place in the explanation. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:06, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Well, I made a first-hack attempt, with terrible grammar and no appropriate citations. Please don't be too harsh! [[Special:Contributions/199.27.129.83|199.27.129.83]] 16:14, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Most of the combinations involving the dairy items are disgusting. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.9|108.162.216.9]] 19:29, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

If you think sour cream and pancakes is not a traditional combination, you've never been to Russia. We put sour cream in a lot of things, really, but pancakes especially. That applies almost as well to sour cream and ketchup (though that is just a pair of commonly combined condiments, not a food item in itself). I do, however, agree with the commentor above (even regarding sour cream). Incidentally, I had to google "relish" - apparently it's a general term for a big variety of chopped-vegetable items. The Russian name for one particularly common type literally translates as "eggplant caviar". Goes nicely with ham, is applied to pancakes occasionally. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.180.191|162.158.180.191]] 20:51, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
:FYI, pickle (that is to say, pickled cucumber) relish is generally what people from the US mean when referring to relish. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.59|108.162.216.59]] 05:05, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

It will be interesting to see if all items will be checked of eventually when people from many different countries comes by? I checked of pancakes and ice cream. I put ice in almost every time I make sweet pancakes. Yummy. But we also have "food" pancakes (not sweat) with meat in them. And I'm note talking about tortillas or burrito pancakes. Made exactly like normal sweet pancakes without sugar and with salt. In The Netherlands they have pancake houses where the toppings is more like that of a pizza, and then after wards they drop on some kind of syrup... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:06, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Avocado and ice cream is traditional? Really? I mean, the novelty ice cream places (bacon ice cream, beer ice cream, Tabasco ice cream, you know the drill), sure, but where is that a traditional pairing? ... However, I'm putting in another vote for sour cream with pancakes. Especially if you consider crêpes and associated acts as in the pancake category, so there's the whole world of savory pancakes out there. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.7|108.162.221.7]] 04:16, 28 November 2015 (UTC)MR
:I have removed avocado and ice cream. That cannot be thought of as traditional even if someone actually likes it. I do not know if you could think of pancakes and sour cream as traditional. But again if you think of them both as sweat and food pancakes (as already is the case, then maybe...) I will not list it though as I do not feel it is traditional. But I would also not delete it if anyone else feels it is. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 10:41, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
:Sorry, that was me. Wasn't aware that this had to be exclusively limited to food items from the US, but anyway was thinking about the avocado icecream here (taluwang.com.my). It's quite popular where I come from and quite delicious, actually. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.153.137|162.158.153.137]] 14:13, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
:Avocado ice cream is also eaten occasionally in Brazil. Admittedly, Brazil isn't the United States. However, a simple Google Search of "Avocado Ice Cream" brings up dozens of very different recipes (including an avocado coconut ice cream that I really have to try). In addition, the table of traditional pairings says "it should mainly be combinations that are common in the US". If it said "combinations exclusively in the US" then I could see justifiably removing Avocado Ice Cream. However, since there are multiple countries that it is both popular and commonly eaten ''and'' literally millions of hits show up in English if you search it in Google, I would say that it counts. [[User:Jeudi Violist|Jeudi Violist]] ([[User talk:Jeudi Violist|talk]]) 07:13, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

At least five of those alleged "individually good" so-called "foods" - relish, ketchup, cheese, sour cream, and avocado - are absolutely disgusting and would destroy any food value of things they came in contact with. YMMV.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.33|108.162.221.33]] 09:46, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
:Well I also do not like avocado or sour cream and neither most forms of eggs plus only a few kind of cheese. But I know that many people really love these items, and that would not make it a bad combination to put sour cream and avocado together. I just would not wish to eat it for my personal taste. That I do not like it, does not make it disgusting. But I would be sorry if someone tried to make me eat it. But not get disgusted because other people eat it in front of me. Disgusting things are something like rat or excrements... ;-) And this has to be taken into account before anyone changes the table above. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 10:37, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

There's some "almost something I've seen" combinations, in the above. For example, while I've never had Ham And Avocado, Ham And Pineapple is not uncommon. (Of course, now we're also into neighbouring territory of "does pineapple belong on a pizza?" ;) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.152.227|162.158.152.227]] 16:39, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Err, what? Ketchup flavored chips hard to come by in the US? I've yet to see a single supermarket that didn't have a large quantity of Herr's Ketchup Chips. And I live in the american Northeast.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.59|108.162.216.59]] 05:00, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

"Pairings" is itself a bit ambiguous, but I'd vote that none of cupcakes/sour cream, pancakes/cheese nor eggs/ relish are traditional pairings. Pancakes with sour cream may well edge in as blinis, but only by counting blinis (and crepes?) within pancakes. Some others are perhaps a little more likely, but still would not make my personal cut as a traditional pairing -- ice cream/ hot chocolate & ham/relish would fail, and if we count hot chocolate/pancakes as OK because they may both be part of a breakfast, then why not hot chocolate/eggs? [[User:Miamiclay|Miamiclay]] ([[User talk:Miamiclay|talk]]) 20:40, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

In my experience, all combinations of individually-good foods are only bad if you go into it expecting them to be. Speaking of which, I highly recommend putting creamy peanut butter and slices of banana on a burger.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.60|108.162.216.60]] 05:21, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Talk:1609: Food Combinations

2015-11-30T07:14:53Z

Jeudi Violist:

I tried this on a friend and after three tries she said, you just mentioned all my favorite food items. So... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:27, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

You know what's really good? Ice cream on pizza. [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 15:23, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
:That's a popular summer snack in Tasmania. [[Special:Contributions/198.41.238.32|198.41.238.32]] 08:02, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

So nobody puts sour cream on pancakes??? {{unsigned ip|173.245.54.14}}

Joey agrees with that - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSFgDZJVYbo [[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.139|162.158.34.139]] 15:40, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
:Thanks I was just thinking of that episode when seeing this comic. Think it deserves a place in the explanation. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:06, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Well, I made a first-hack attempt, with terrible grammar and no appropriate citations. Please don't be too harsh! [[Special:Contributions/199.27.129.83|199.27.129.83]] 16:14, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Most of the combinations involving the dairy items are disgusting. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.9|108.162.216.9]] 19:29, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

If you think sour cream and pancakes is not a traditional combination, you've never been to Russia. We put sour cream in a lot of things, really, but pancakes especially. That applies almost as well to sour cream and ketchup (though that is just a pair of commonly combined condiments, not a food item in itself). I do, however, agree with the commentor above (even regarding sour cream). Incidentally, I had to google "relish" - apparently it's a general term for a big variety of chopped-vegetable items. The Russian name for one particularly common type literally translates as "eggplant caviar". Goes nicely with ham, is applied to pancakes occasionally. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.180.191|162.158.180.191]] 20:51, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
:FYI, pickle (that is to say, pickled cucumber) relish is generally what people from the US mean when referring to relish. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.59|108.162.216.59]] 05:05, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

It will be interesting to see if all items will be checked of eventually when people from many different countries comes by? I checked of pancakes and ice cream. I put ice in almost every time I make sweet pancakes. Yummy. But we also have "food" pancakes (not sweat) with meat in them. And I'm note talking about tortillas or burrito pancakes. Made exactly like normal sweet pancakes without sugar and with salt. In The Netherlands they have pancake houses where the toppings is more like that of a pizza, and then after wards they drop on some kind of syrup... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:06, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Avocado and ice cream is traditional? Really? I mean, the novelty ice cream places (bacon ice cream, beer ice cream, Tabasco ice cream, you know the drill), sure, but where is that a traditional pairing? ... However, I'm putting in another vote for sour cream with pancakes. Especially if you consider crêpes and associated acts as in the pancake category, so there's the whole world of savory pancakes out there. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.7|108.162.221.7]] 04:16, 28 November 2015 (UTC)MR
:I have removed avocado and ice cream. That cannot be thought of as traditional even if someone actually likes it. I do not know if you could think of pancakes and sour cream as traditional. But again if you think of them both as sweat and food pancakes (as already is the case, then maybe...) I will not list it though as I do not feel it is traditional. But I would also not delete it if anyone else feels it is. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 10:41, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
:Sorry, that was me. Wasn't aware that this had to be exclusively limited to food items from the US, but anyway was thinking about the avocado icecream here (taluwang.com.my). It's quite popular where I come from and quite delicious, actually. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.153.137|162.158.153.137]] 14:13, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
:Avocado ice cream is also eaten occasionally in Brazil. Admittedly, Brazil isn't the United States. However, a simple Google Search of "Avocado Ice Cream" brings up dozens of very different recipes (including an avocado coconut ice cream that I really have to try). In addition, the table of traditional pairings says "it should mainly be combinations that are common in the US". If it said "combinations exclusively in the US" then I could see removing justifiably Avocado Ice Cream. However, since there are multiple countries that it is both popular and commonly eaten ''and'' literally millions of hits show up in English if you search it in Google, I would say that it counts. [[User:Jeudi Violist|Jeudi Violist]] ([[User talk:Jeudi Violist|talk]]) 07:13, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

At least five of those alleged "individually good" so-called "foods" - relish, ketchup, cheese, sour cream, and avocado - are absolutely disgusting and would destroy any food value of things they came in contact with. YMMV.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.33|108.162.221.33]] 09:46, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
:Well I also do not like avocado or sour cream and neither most forms of eggs plus only a few kind of cheese. But I know that many people really love these items, and that would not make it a bad combination to put sour cream and avocado together. I just would not wish to eat it for my personal taste. That I do not like it, does not make it disgusting. But I would be sorry if someone tried to make me eat it. But not get disgusted because other people eat it in front of me. Disgusting things are something like rat or excrements... ;-) And this has to be taken into account before anyone changes the table above. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 10:37, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

There's some "almost something I've seen" combinations, in the above. For example, while I've never had Ham And Avocado, Ham And Pineapple is not uncommon. (Of course, now we're also into neighbouring territory of "does pineapple belong on a pizza?" ;) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.152.227|162.158.152.227]] 16:39, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Err, what? Ketchup flavored chips hard to come by in the US? I've yet to see a single supermarket that didn't have a large quantity of Herr's Ketchup Chips. And I live in the american Northeast.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.59|108.162.216.59]] 05:00, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

"Pairings" is itself a bit ambiguous, but I'd vote that none of cupcakes/sour cream, pancakes/cheese nor eggs/ relish are traditional pairings. Pancakes with sour cream may well edge in as blinis, but only by counting blinis (and crepes?) within pancakes. Some others are perhaps a little more likely, but still would not make my personal cut as a traditional pairing -- ice cream/ hot chocolate & ham/relish would fail, and if we count hot chocolate/pancakes as OK because they may both be part of a breakfast, then why not hot chocolate/eggs? [[User:Miamiclay|Miamiclay]] ([[User talk:Miamiclay|talk]]) 20:40, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

In my experience, all combinations of individually-good foods are only bad if you go into it expecting them to be. Speaking of which, I highly recommend putting creamy peanut butter and slices of banana on a burger.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.60|108.162.216.60]] 05:21, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Talk:1609: Food Combinations

2015-11-30T07:13:15Z

Jeudi Violist: More on Avocado Ice Cream

I tried this on a friend and after three tries she said, you just mentioned all my favorite food items. So... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:27, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

You know what's really good? Ice cream on pizza. [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 15:23, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
:That's a popular summer snack in Tasmania. [[Special:Contributions/198.41.238.32|198.41.238.32]] 08:02, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

So nobody puts sour cream on pancakes??? {{unsigned ip|173.245.54.14}}

Joey agrees with that - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSFgDZJVYbo [[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.139|162.158.34.139]] 15:40, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
:Thanks I was just thinking of that episode when seeing this comic. Think it deserves a place in the explanation. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:06, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Well, I made a first-hack attempt, with terrible grammar and no appropriate citations. Please don't be too harsh! [[Special:Contributions/199.27.129.83|199.27.129.83]] 16:14, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Most of the combinations involving the dairy items are disgusting. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.9|108.162.216.9]] 19:29, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

If you think sour cream and pancakes is not a traditional combination, you've never been to Russia. We put sour cream in a lot of things, really, but pancakes especially. That applies almost as well to sour cream and ketchup (though that is just a pair of commonly combined condiments, not a food item in itself). I do, however, agree with the commentor above (even regarding sour cream). Incidentally, I had to google "relish" - apparently it's a general term for a big variety of chopped-vegetable items. The Russian name for one particularly common type literally translates as "eggplant caviar". Goes nicely with ham, is applied to pancakes occasionally. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.180.191|162.158.180.191]] 20:51, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
:FYI, pickle (that is to say, pickled cucumber) relish is generally what people from the US mean when referring to relish. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.59|108.162.216.59]] 05:05, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

It will be interesting to see if all items will be checked of eventually when people from many different countries comes by? I checked of pancakes and ice cream. I put ice in almost every time I make sweet pancakes. Yummy. But we also have "food" pancakes (not sweat) with meat in them. And I'm note talking about tortillas or burrito pancakes. Made exactly like normal sweet pancakes without sugar and with salt. In The Netherlands they have pancake houses where the toppings is more like that of a pizza, and then after wards they drop on some kind of syrup... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:06, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Avocado and ice cream is traditional? Really? I mean, the novelty ice cream places (bacon ice cream, beer ice cream, Tabasco ice cream, you know the drill), sure, but where is that a traditional pairing? ... However, I'm putting in another vote for sour cream with pancakes. Especially if you consider crêpes and associated acts as in the pancake category, so there's the whole world of savory pancakes out there. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.7|108.162.221.7]] 04:16, 28 November 2015 (UTC)MR
:I have removed avocado and ice cream. That cannot be thought of as traditional even if someone actually likes it. I do not know if you could think of pancakes and sour cream as traditional. But again if you think of them both as sweat and food pancakes (as already is the case, then maybe...) I will not list it though as I do not feel it is traditional. But I would also not delete it if anyone else feels it is. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 10:41, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
:Sorry, that was me. Wasn't aware that this had to be exclusively limited to food items from the US, but anyway was thinking about the avocado icecream here (taluwang.com.my). It's quite popular where I come from and quite delicious, actually. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.153.137|162.158.153.137]] 14:13, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
:Avocado ice cream is also eaten occasionally in Brazil. Admittedly, Brazil isn't the United States. However, a simple Google Search of "Avocado Ice Cream" brings up dozens of recipes (including an avocado coconut ice cream that I really have to try). In addition, the table of traditional pairings says "it should mainly be combinations that are common in the US". If it said "combinations exclusively in the US" then I could see removing Avocado Ice Cream. However, since there are multiple countries that it is both popular and commonly eaten ''and'' literally millions of recipes show up in English if you search it in Google, I would say that it counts. [[User:Jeudi Violist|Jeudi Violist]] ([[User talk:Jeudi Violist|talk]]) 07:13, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

At least five of those alleged "individually good" so-called "foods" - relish, ketchup, cheese, sour cream, and avocado - are absolutely disgusting and would destroy any food value of things they came in contact with. YMMV.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.33|108.162.221.33]] 09:46, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
:Well I also do not like avocado or sour cream and neither most forms of eggs plus only a few kind of cheese. But I know that many people really love these items, and that would not make it a bad combination to put sour cream and avocado together. I just would not wish to eat it for my personal taste. That I do not like it, does not make it disgusting. But I would be sorry if someone tried to make me eat it. But not get disgusted because other people eat it in front of me. Disgusting things are something like rat or excrements... ;-) And this has to be taken into account before anyone changes the table above. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 10:37, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

There's some "almost something I've seen" combinations, in the above. For example, while I've never had Ham And Avocado, Ham And Pineapple is not uncommon. (Of course, now we're also into neighbouring territory of "does pineapple belong on a pizza?" ;) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.152.227|162.158.152.227]] 16:39, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Err, what? Ketchup flavored chips hard to come by in the US? I've yet to see a single supermarket that didn't have a large quantity of Herr's Ketchup Chips. And I live in the american Northeast.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.59|108.162.216.59]] 05:00, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

"Pairings" is itself a bit ambiguous, but I'd vote that none of cupcakes/sour cream, pancakes/cheese nor eggs/ relish are traditional pairings. Pancakes with sour cream may well edge in as blinis, but only by counting blinis (and crepes?) within pancakes. Some others are perhaps a little more likely, but still would not make my personal cut as a traditional pairing -- ice cream/ hot chocolate & ham/relish would fail, and if we count hot chocolate/pancakes as OK because they may both be part of a breakfast, then why not hot chocolate/eggs? [[User:Miamiclay|Miamiclay]] ([[User talk:Miamiclay|talk]]) 20:40, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

In my experience, all combinations of individually-good foods are only bad if you go into it expecting them to be. Speaking of which, I highly recommend putting creamy peanut butter and slices of banana on a burger.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.60|108.162.216.60]] 05:21, 30 November 2015 (UTC)