explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

3184: Funny Numbers

2025-12-31T08:34:54Z

JimJJewett: $420million for road repairs in Michigan budget. This might be too prominent for a detail ...

{{comic
| number = 3184
| date = December 22, 2025
| title = Funny Numbers
| image = funny_numbers_2x.png
| imagesize = 360x453px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = In 1899, people were walking around shouting '23' at each other and laughing, and confused reporters were writing articles trying to figure out what it meant.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|This page was created by the square root of -2. Don't remove this notice too soon.}}
This comic refers to the recent meme {{w|6-7 meme|"6-7"}}, often accompanied by moving your hands up and down. This meme is often referenced in physical space, primarily among the younger generation, often to the great annoyance of their elders.

Like many youth trends, this habit is often looked down upon by adults, who may see it as anything from an irritating fad to a symptom of social and intellectual decay. This strip takes exactly the opposite tack, depicting a Mathematical Society (apparently composed entirely of adults) noting this trend with no hint of condemnation. Rather, their attitude seems indulgent and nostalgic. The strip references a long history of young people adopting specific numbers as slang, often for quasi-arbitrary reasons, and treats this latest meme as simply a continuation of that history. Seen from that perspective, the trend seems like something that the different generations have in common, with one researcher fondly saying that she's "glad they're still doing that".

The numbers listed are:
{| class="wikitable sortable"
!Number!!Adopted?!!class="unsortable"|Explanation
|-
|data-sort-value="23"|23 (skidoo!)||data-sort-value="1899"|around 1899||The number relates to leaving quickly (a suggestion to go away), for indeterminate reasons.
{{w|23 skidoo|It was a death row prisoner's number}} in a then-new stage play based on ''A Tale of Two Cities'' by Charles Dickens, but it's unclear whether that was the source of the slang. Soon after its coining, it was popularly combined with a term of similar use to become the phrase "{{w|23 skidoo}}".

23 gained some popularity again in the 1970s via the {{w|23 enigma}}, the suggestion that the number appears unusually often in significant contexts. This was first noticed by William S. Burroughs, and spread by Robert Anton Wilson and Robert Shea's book ''The Illuminatus! Trilogy'', and by ''Principia Discordia''.
|-
|42||1978||A number made popular by {{w|The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy}}, a radio play and book by Douglas Adams.
These works include a plot where a supercomputer is designed to answer {{w|Phrases from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy#The Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything is 42|"the ultimate question of life, the universe and everything"}} and (after a great deal of calculation) reports that the answer is "forty-two" (the joke being that the answer is useless because we don't understand the question). This number became a reference among fans of the series, and passed into more common usage.
|-
|69||data-sort-value="1795"|1790s?||Refers to {{w|69 (sex position)|the act of mutual oral sex}}, because the two digits (identical but inversely rotated) are reminiscent of two people in that sexual position.
This usage dates back at least as far as the eighteenth century (though the act itself is far older). The earliest known use was in French: "faire soixante-neuf", and it passed into English usage in the 1880s. It's not clear when the number began to be commonly referenced by young people, though it was arguably gained particular popularity due to a reference in {{w|Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure}} (1989).
|-
|420||1971||This number (originally the time "4:20 pm", and later connected to April the 20th) has become {{w|420 (cannabis culture)|slang}} for smoking {{w|marijuana}}.
Randall previously made reference to this number in [[2153: Effects of High Altitude]]. Michigan's 2026 budget assumes the increased tax on marijuana will raise precisely $420 million for road repairs.
|-
|1,337||data-sort-value="1985"|1980s?||"{{w|Leet}}-speak" is a form of textual obfuscation using an alternative orthography (various character substitutions and phonetic shifts) to 'spell' words. This particular type of orthography initially became popular among young computer hackers ("leet" being slang for "elite").
"1337" is the usual way to represent the term "LEET" ("1" is commonly a lower-case "L", "3"s are often used as "E"s – see 58,008's calculator-speak examples – and "7" closely resembles a "T"). (i.e. the self-description of the in-group who are using this system).
Randall has previously referred to 1337 in the [[:Category:1337|1337]] series and in [[1337: Hack]].
|-
|58,008||data-sort-value="1975"|1970s?||The number "58008" {{w|Calculator spelling|when typed into a seven-segment display and inverted}}, spells "BOOBS". There is also a longer version "5318008" which spells "BOOBIES". When calculators with these displays became common in schools in the 1980s, young people (particularly young men) took delight in this discovery, and in the fact that they could use an apparently inscrutable number as a salacious reference.
|-
|data-sort-value="67"|6 7||2025||{{w|6-7 meme|This meme}} originated from the song "Doot Doot" by Skrilla and quickly became an in-crowd joke, together with hand actions, among many young people.
The meme quickly became sufficiently divorced from its original meaning that even many people referencing it didn't know its origins, leading to many people seeing it as [https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/67-meme fundamentally meaningless], though that hasn't stopped people from trying to assign a meaning to it.

{{w|At sixes and sevens}} is a possibly unrelated expression meaning a condition of confusion or disarray.
|}

The title text claims that the media reaction to "23-skiddoo" around the turn of the 20th century (''one'' of the oldest terms, ''possibly'' the first noted by the mathematicians of that day) was very similar to the current media reaction to "6 7". This highlights a perennial historical cycle of youth culture being confusing to the old; with the young generation growing old and, in turn, being confused by a new generation of youth culture.

Other cartoons featuring lists of symbolic numbers include [[487: Numerical Sex Positions]]. The trend of new manifestations of long-running phenomena being treated as signs of social decay is referenced in [[1227: The Pace of Modern Life]].

==Transcript==
:[A banner is hanging from the ceiling with a large line of text above a smaller one:]
:<big>Mathematical society</big>
:2025 meeting

:[Below the banner there are four people, three of them are standing close together to the left with Hairbun leftmost addressing Cueball and Megan who is looking at her. Ponytail is standing to the far right next to a whiteboard, and is using a marker to circle round the last of several items on the board.]
:Hairbun: Any other new developments from the year to cover before we wrap?
:Cueball: Oh, the teens picked a new funny number.
:Megan: Aww, I'm glad to hear they're still doing that.
:Ponytail: I'll add it to the list.

:[The board generally contains two columns of numbers, the first row having text after its number, thus across both columns. The last pair of digits is the new 'number' circled round by Ponytail. From top, in reading order, they are:]
:23 (skidoo!)
:42    1,337
:69    58,008
:420   6 7

{{comic discussion}}<noinclude>
[[Category: Comics featuring Hairbun]]
[[Category: Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category: Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category: Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category: Math]]
[[Category: Language]]

Talk:3090: Sail Physics

2025-05-18T06:41:01Z

JimJJewett: answered Qs about why the typical explanation is "wrong", and whether such sailboats exist

After the last step, the sailors would then need to ground the boat to avoid being pushed in a circle, wouldn't they? [[User:Sophon|Sophon]] ([[User talk:Sophon|talk]]) 20:47, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

Note that for eastward wind, the boat will be propelled upwards, while the opposite is true for westward winds. This provides a basis for the functioning of airships and planes (Helicopters are more complicated, and additionally rely on their own magnetic fields) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.217.45|162.158.217.45]] 21:21, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
: Hence why you should always touch an earthing rod before approaching a helicopter, to avoid the magnetism pulling you into their rotors. [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 03:11, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

Is this actually wrong? Wouldn't it still be ''a'' force on a sailboat, even if it's not the strongest? [[User:Smurfton|Smurfton]] ([[User talk:Smurfton|talk]]) 22:20, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

: I added some explaination on direction and magnitude of the lorentz force, maybe that will help - sga {{unsigned ip|172.68.234.227|22:33, 16 May 2025 (UTC)}}

The explanation states that of the four forces, only the electromagnetic force operates at the macro level. This is incorrect, as gravity is also directly observable by humans. There should also probably be a link to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airfoil to provide an explanation for how sails actually allow a boat to sail upwind. I recommend removing the remark about the poles potentially flipping in the future, as this is irrelevant. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.55.124|172.68.55.124]] 23:52, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

: What i meant was, for 2 objects at scales of humans =, maybe did not prase it well. In this case, it is the wind and the sail. Wind does not have a "mass" (the atoms most certainly do, but) we essentially have a pressure force, or momentum of wind, where instead of using the energy of atoms (and hence the mass) as given by kinetic theory is not used (that is random (as given by boltzman maxwell statistics)) and uniform (in the sense that for any direction, number of particles going against and towards is equal) and what we have is just pressure applied by a effective "group velocity" of the wind atoms. The gravity interaction between wind and boat, or the local waves and boat is negligible, and planetary gravity is not considered because that is not relavant for in plane motion. the pole fillping was added just for future proofing the article. I am sorry for the puns. I have rewwritten some parts, and reduced the part about pole flipping, and also added the average case scenario for the force, hope it is better now. - sga {{unsigned ip|172.70.143.75|02:37+, 17 May 2025}}
::That is one huge rambling paragraph, if it's (mostly) yours. I'm no stranger to ''writing'' huge rambling paragraphs, myself, but I gave up only a little way in on trying to make it read better. Grammatically, prosaically and with relevence.
::May I suggest that each 'frame' is treated to its own (shorter) paragraph, explaining what effect it tries to convey, what logic it individually tries to follow, but where it fails and what actual forces dominate a true example. (e.g. the hull-shape, including keel, helping convert roughly lateral sideways forces into forward ones against the water; those lateral ones having already been a conversion of largely head-on winds in the first place, thus two "almost up to 90 degree" redirections of force allow ''very nearly'' a 180-degree reversal of wind-blown movement. Feel free to discuss the comparisons and differences between 'flappy sail', though blown taught by the air, and an 'upright aircraft wing' solid design. ...See, told you I could ramble, but someone can surely do better at segmenting and summarising the basics of this.) [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.32|172.71.178.32]] 08:32, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

This is super embarrassing to admit, but I came here to verify whether this was a serious thing or not. I had no idea how a sailboat sails against the wind. [[User:Catgofire|Catgofire]] ([[User talk:Catgofire|talk]]) 23:58, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
:You aren't alone - I think I was an adult before I understood tacking in the sailboat sense of the word. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.174.127|162.158.174.127]] 02:45, 17 May 2025 (UTC)
: I'm wanting to add in some wisdom about "science-y" explanations that appear to be sensible but are completely wrong, segueing into how generative language models appear to be far more reliable than they are. However this margin is too narrow [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 03:09, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

I've been really annoyed with ExplainXKCD in the last few months ever since the initial posting has always been LLM generated. It requires more brain power to make sense of AI slop and edit it, than to contribute to a blank page. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.162.103|162.158.162.103]] {{unsigned ip|162.158.162.103|15:44, 17 May 2025|...yes, probably signed with just three tildes, by accident, but the intended message is the same...}}
:I don't think that LLM has been used for the most troublesome bits. LLMs can 'hallucinate', but tend (unless ''specifically'' asked) to make a lot more grammatical sense if you don't look too much further. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.33.240|162.158.33.240]] 18:29, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

Any chance we can add an explanation of how it *actually* works? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.216.174|162.158.216.174]] 10:03, 17 May 2025 (UTC)
:Through judicious angling of sail, wind (from any direction other than fully head-on) is deflected(/uses 'wing-effect') to create a force, trying to push the boat, that might be mostly sideways but also a bit forward. Because of the shape of the hull, any sideways force is resisted by the water, reinforcing the remaining forward component which the hull is far more ready to take advantage of. Enough sail (and enough stability to resist rolling) gives a large amount of movement towards, but not ''exactly'' towards, the wind. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.224.72|172.69.224.72]] 10:41, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

The joke is that the most commonly used explanation for why flow over a foil generates lift - particles going one way have a longer way to travel than the other, which generates a difference in speed and therefore a pressure differential - is wrong. {{unsigned ip|172.69.109.91|10:36, 17 May 2025}}
:What is wrong with the explanation which you say is wrong? What is the more correct explanation? [[Special:Contributions/172.71.150.33|172.71.150.33]] 20:28, 17 May 2025 (UTC)
::That explanation usually implies/assumes that the portion of air going above the wing and the portion going below have to arrive at the other edge of the wing at the same time. So if a particle that happened to go underneath took exactly x seconds, then an identical particle that happened to go over would also take exactly x seconds. This turns out not to be true. It ''is'' true that (most wing-generated) lift comes from a pressure differential, and it is generally true enough most of the time that most (not all) of that pressure differential is tied to an airstream speed differential. (I say "tied to" because I am not in the mood to argue about how the causality runs.) [[User:JimJJewett|JimJJewett]] ([[User talk:JimJJewett|talk]]) 06:41, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

The picture seems to show an axis of rotation (the mast) for the sail being on the end of the sail. Is that correct for a certain class of sailing vessel?~~ {{unsigned ip|162.158.146.128|15:57, 17 May 2025}}
:Yes. Though offhand, I can't think of a ''good'' sailboat ''with only 1 sail'' where it was true beyond a first approximation. [[User:JimJJewett|JimJJewett]] ([[User talk:JimJJewett|talk]]) 06:41, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

Currently the explanation says "most interaction of physical things at macro scale (humans and boat sized objects) are electromagnetic in nature" I have certainly read that, and have seen examples of electromagnetic interactions between atoms. However, I also encounter explanations that describe interactions in terms of Pauli exclusion principle (see for instance {{w|Contact force}}). This makes me question the view presented in the first sentence. Since my physics is a bit rusty I haven't tried to fix it, but I think it may need clarification. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.150.33|172.71.150.33]] 20:28, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

I split up the example calculating Lorentz force on a boat. It still needs some work (I was just untangling it so I could see what it said).
The paragraph about one coulomb of charge I left as is - it needs untangling, so be bold.
In the example - somebody should recheck the math (I just copied what there, but in changing units to be more familiar, like km/h, I might have introduced errors). I also changed the field strength to the right order of magnitude for Earth's surface, and multiplied the wind speed by 10 to compensate.
As best I can figure the numbers for the example may have been chosen to get a force of 1 Newton. (I can't see any other reason for the ludicrous wind speed of thousands of km/h.) Might be better example to use a reasonable wind speed (e.g. dial it back to hurricane force) and a reasonable charge (something like what you could accumulate with an automobile, or when you zap yourself after getting out of a car seat) wind up with an even more negligible force. Then we could dispense with the paragraph explaining why 1 Coulomb is silly. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.151.93|172.71.151.93]] 22:15, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

:If anybody wants to restore parts of it or play with it, the version with the calculation of Lorentz forces is here [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=3090:_Sail_Physics&oldid=378099] I thought it somewhat interesting just as physics problem to show what the effect was.
:I got curious about how much charge is involved when one zaps oneself on a car seat. A lighting bolt is a few coulombs. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.142.188|172.71.142.188]] 23:40, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

Extreme apologies to an(other) IP editor who may have made several possibly great improvements to the article. I had ''so'' many problems with what was already there that I did a massive rewrite and set things up so differently that I'm not sure that (at a very long glance, but maybe not as long as it diserves) much of that effort is really worth feeding back in. Or even capable of being. Obviously, it's up to the rest of the you (including the person/people I overrode) to make your own judgement about that. I will also go back in to carefully check what I may have desecrated. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.68|162.158.74.68]] 22:37, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

:No problem. I remade a few tweaks. The calculation is linked above is anybody wants to restore part of it. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.142.188|172.71.142.188]] 23:40, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

Talking of multiple sails (as the explanation does, at least right now), I'm reminded of a children's SF-based book I read when I was... well, a child. It was set on a (mostly) waterworld, as I recall, that had ''multiple'' suns (in orbit around ''it''..? ...already we can be sure it was probably not the hardest of hard-SF settings, of course). The boats/skiffs/whatever had multiple sails to move around. Multiple ''solar sails''. Depending upon which ones were deployed (kite-surfing-like), they'd get pushed (and you'd get pulled) by the ''sun that they were for''. So if you wanted to go <- thataway, deploy one particular sail, or thataway -> deploy another instead. As if solar sails even work that way. (Or even would work that way ''as effectively'' as a kite might in the... I presume there was an atmosphere... if there wasn't, then that'd explain the need for no-air sail-like solution, but raise significant other questions ...though clearly could not raise kites.) I may have misremembered some of the details, even perhaps some of the 'wrongness', but... I definitely remember I had to suspend quite a lot of disbelief (don't ask me from which sun it is hung!) when I read that. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.187|172.68.205.187]] 23:25, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

I was just looking at some things about solar sails and similar. This comic got me curious about:
Whether one could use a solar sail to sail "upwind"? -- you can - thanks to gravity and orbital mechanics. e.g., Sail in direction of your orbit - shifts apogee out, perigee in.
Whether you could build a {{w|magnetic sail))? -- yes - doesn't work quite like the one in the comic (sun provides wind of particles, sail is magnet to redirect them).
There is also a version of solar sail using electric fields to redirect charged particles.
One question I haven't found anything about is do solar sails (conventional ones, not electric) accumulate charge, and what effects that might have.
I just mention here in case anybody thinks way makes sense in comic explanation. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.142.188|172.71.142.188]] 23:40, 17 May 2025 (UTC)
:Well, if you send charge along a long conductor (which might be what you do if you're sending/receiving the sail-charge through the thing that the sail is attached to the payload with), ''and'' pass through any magnetic fields (planetary, solar... galactic?) then you're into the territory of the {{w|Electrodynamic tether}} as ''also'' useful for propulsion. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.187|172.68.205.187]] 00:24, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

Related to the question of how sails might work (against the wind), and the relationship to wing effects, I'm reminded of how a {{w|Cabin Pressure (radio series)|comedy radio sitcom}} dealt with the wings thing. In case it's not quickly obvious (and with some non-obvious info added), characters are Arthur ('simple' but questioning Air Steward), Carolyn (his mother, bossy owner of the airplane and chief Air Steward/everything else that's not actually flying), Martin (chief pilot/captain, knowledgable but inexperienced) and Douglas (second in command, but senior in years and experience and 'street smart'/air-smart to the point of (usually well-deserved) smugness).

{{cot|Excerpt dialogues from Cabin Pressure, series(/season) 1, episode 1}}
:[Arthur:] No, never! It’s just always exciting! That amazing moment when twelve tons of metal leaves the earth – and no-one knows why!
:[Carolyn:] Yes, we do.
:[Arthur:] Yeah, but ...you know, not really. I mean, we know you need wings and engines and a ...sticky-up bit on the end for some reason, but it’s not like we actually know why a plane stays in the air.
:[Carolyn:] No, no, Arthur, we really do. We-we do, we do know that.
:[Arthur:] Oh! How, then?
:[Carolyn:] Well ...er, because...
:[...some minor diversionary tactics break the conversation all too briefly...]
:[Carolyn:] Because there are four forces acting on the plane, and so long as two of them are bigger than the other two, the plane flies.
:[Arthur:] ...Mum, I don’t mind that no-one knows.
:[Carolyn:] But we do! We do! That’s it! What I said: that’s how.
:[Arthur:] Well, what are the four forces, then?
:[Carolyn:] Yes! Well, I will tell you what they are. Lift ...weight ...er...
:[Arthur:] Up and down?
:[Carolyn:] No, no, no, no, no. Tho-Those are up and down. No, it’s lift, weight...
:[Arthur:] Left and right.
:[Carolyn:] No, no, no, no. Lift, weight...
:[Arthur:] En...gines?
:[Carolyn:] No, no ...well, yes, yes, yes, sort of. Um, thrust, thrust. Lift, weight, thrust and...
:[Arthur:] Time.
:[Carolyn:] Drag. Lift, weight, thrust and drag. So, the weight and drag are overcome because the engines give the plane thrust, and the wings give it lift. And that’s how a plane flies.
:[Arthur:] How do the wings give it lift?
:[Carolyn:] What?
:[Arthur:] The wings are really heavy. How does bolting two ginormous lumps of metal to a ginormous lump of metal give it lift?
:[Carolyn:] Well, because they are wings. Well, they’re like birds’ wings.
:[Arthur:] Yeah, but birds’ wings flap. Ours don’t flap. They’ve got flaps, but I once watched the flaps all the way to Stockholm and, take it from me, they are seriously mis-named. So-so why does having wings make a plane leave the runway?
:[conveniently timed distraction occurs to take Carolyn away...]
:[Arthur:] Yeah, but how do the wings...
:[...letting the conversation and action move on, until...]

:[Douglas:] And now it’s back to the boring old plane flying.
:[Arthur:] Oh, yes. About that. Um, I wanted to ask you something, Skipper. Mum was telling me this morning that planes fly because they’ve got wings.
:[Douglas:] Is there anything that woman doesn’t know?
:[Arthur:] But she didn’t really explain – why do wings lift us up?
:[Douglas:] Ah, well. Essentially...
:[Martin:] Uh, Douglas, he asked me. Listen carefully, Arthur. The wing is curved on top but flat on the bottom. When it meets the air, it splits it in two. The air that goes over the top has further to go, so it has to go faster to keep up with the air underneath. That reduces the pressure above the wing, giving us lift.
:[Arthur:] Ah, fantastic! Thanks, Skipper! I totally get it now.
:[Martin:] You’re welcome.
:[Arthur:] Except ...why does it have to?
:[Martin:] Why does what what?
:[Arthur:] Why does the air on the top have to keep up with the air on the bottom? Why don’t they just split up?
:[pause]
:[Douglas:] ...for the sake of the kids?
:[action moves on again, until...]

:[...they need to distract Arthur from ''something else'']
:[Douglas:] Arthur, you were asking why the air over the wing has to keep up with the air underneath.
:[Arthur:] Ooh, yes. Do you know?
:[Douglas:] Indeed I do. Attend: the air is not passing over the wing; the wing is passing through the air, so the curved upper side stretches the air forced over it apart, reducing pressure, producing lift. The lift pushes up; the weight pushes down – so as long as the lift is more than the weight, up we go. And that, my friend, is how an aeroplane flies.
:[Arthur:] Got it! Right, yes! Cracking! I completely get it now.
:[Douglas:] Good. You see, it’s actually quite easy to grasp when it’s explained properly by someone who understands...
:[Arthur:] So that’s why planes can’t fly upside down.
:[Douglas:] Er, yes they can.
:[Arthur:] Can they?
:[Douglas:] Well, of course they can. Haven’t you seen the Red Arrows?
:[Arthur:] But ...doesn’t that mean the curved side of the wing is on the bottom, so the lift is pushing down as well as the weight? How does that work?
:[Martin:] Yes, Douglas. How does that work?
:[Douglas:] Well, Arthur, there’s a very simple explanation; but just to finish what we were saying, Martin...
[...the ''something else'' is raised as a distraction from the question]
:[Douglas:] No-one wants to hear the explanation. What a shame.
{{cob}}
...just thought anyone who hadn't heard this (or had, but liked the comedy involved) might like to read it. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.187|172.68.205.187]] 00:24, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

Talk:3082: Chess Position

2025-05-04T15:33:46Z

JimJJewett: recognizing a good joke

This is very nearly the core plot conceit of the movie ''Π'' (1998). [[Special:Contributions/172.70.130.190|172.70.130.190]] 22:36, 28 April 2025 (UTC)
:I believe you want lower-case Pi: π not Π. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi_(film) --[[User:PRR|PRR]] ([[User talk:PRR|talk]]) 22:54, 28 April 2025 (UTC)
::Unless they're talking about an obscure spinoff where the protagonist becomes weirdly obsessed with the products of sequences of numbers. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.195.180|172.69.195.180]] 14:47, 29 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Which, for xkcd, is ... indeed plausible.

Does anybody know whether Randall has taken up chess as a hobby? 5 of the 82 comics in the 3000s have been related to chess and only 2 in the 2000s were. If so, this should be included in the explanation. [[User:BobcatInABox|BobcatInABox]] ([[User talk:BobcatInABox|talk]]) 23:11, 28 April 2025 (UTC)
:3000s? [[Special:Contributions/172.71.190.236|172.71.190.236]] 23:40, 28 April 2025 (UTC)
:Oh right comic number not decade/millennium. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.43.157|172.70.43.157]] 23:41, 28 April 2025 (UTC)
:Wouldn't surprise me, there's a three year gap in between chess comics 2465 (May 2021) and 2936 (May 2024), then the aforementioned 5 in 5 months. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.114.251|172.70.114.251]] 00:46, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

I really suspect that the full explanation has something to do with this: https://www.kasparov.com/the-implacable-logic-of-the-vortex-of-history/ [[Special:Contributions/172.68.7.206|172.68.7.206]] 23:34, 28 April 2025 (UTC) Dan
: Doubtful, that article was written in 2013, and it is unlikely that Randall came upon it just now to make this comic. Vortex is a general term for something that sucks you in. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.66|172.70.214.66]] 00:38, 29 April 2025 (UTC)
: Quite possible, since simple web search on Garry Kasparov reveals the aforementioned article about Kasparov's theories of the "vortex of history'. And there is a PlayStation game called "Virtual Kasparov" which is reviewed on the PlayStation review site [https://www.gamevortex.com/psillustrated/soft_rev.php/748 Virtual Kasparov on GameVortex.com]. So, there are at least two places where Kasparov and the word vortex are connected. The term "vortex" would be very tempting for Randall to exploit for comic effect. [[User:Rtanenbaum|Rtanenbaum]] ([[User talk:Rtanenbaum|talk]]) 16:15, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

I sure hope that it stays as not a real thing [[User:Commercialegg|Commercialegg]] ([[User talk:Commercialegg|talk]]) 01:32, 29 April 2025 (UTC)
: It might not be, but it's easy enough to make: Train an adversarial network on human chess games. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.22.41|172.68.22.41]] 04:56, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

The part about losing the ability to play chess even after building a resistance feels familiar. Isn't that how the Elder Scrolls worked in Skyrim, at least. Even highly trained sages would lose the ability to see for a time after reading an Elder Scroll. And the Oblivion remaster just released the other day... --[[User:Ragashingo|Ragashingo]] ([[User talk:Ragashingo|talk]]) 01:54, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

This comic has serious classic SCP energy. I feel like I'd read about this in an old Series I - II article, back when it was still good. [[User:Pie Guy|Pie Guy]] ([[User talk:Pie Guy|talk]]) 18:01, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

----
Cf Von Goom's Gambit by [Victor Contoski](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Contoski) published in The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction, December 1966:

And what of Von Goom's Gambit? Chess is a game of logic. Thirty-two pieces move on a board of sixty-four squares, colored alternately dark and light. As they move they form patterns. Some of these patterns are pleasing to the logical mind of man, and some are not. They show what man is capable of and what is beyond his Take any position of the pieces on the chessboard. Usually it tells of the logical or semi-logical plans of the players, their strategy in playing for a win or a draw, and their personalities. If you see a pattern from the King s Gambit Accepted, you know that both players are tacticians, that the fight will be brief but fierce...
Now suppose someone discovers by accident or design a pattern on the chessboard that is more than displeasing, an alien pattern that tells unspeakable things about the mind of the player, man in general and the order of the universe. Suppose no normal man can look at such a pattern and remain normal. Surely such a pattern must have been formed by Von Goom’s Gambit.

I wish the story could end here, but I fear it will not end for a long time. History has shown that discoveries cannot be unmade. Two months ago in Camden, New Jersey, a forty-tliree year old man was found turned to stone staring at a position on a chessboard... {{unsigned ip|162.158.217.38|05:22, 29 April 2025}}

: ''"Cf Von Goom's Gambit"'' https://archive.org/details/Fantasy_Science_Fiction_v031n06_1966-12_PDF/page/n63/mode/2up?view=theater --[[User:PRR|PRR]] ([[User talk:PRR|talk]]) 17:46, 29 April 2025 (UTC)
----

<q>When you stare into the vortex, the vortex also stares into you</q>, a famous quote from Kasparov. [[User:Ralfoide|Ralfoide]] ([[User talk:Ralfoide|talk]]) 17:49, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

If I may, can we find a position that would match Cueball's description? Where he states "every move attacked every piece, yet every piece was also protected,"? That would be cool. {{unsigned ip|172.69.33.220|20:26, 29 April 2025}}

Why is karpov mentioned in the explanation? I assume more chess comics as chess has grown in popularity to answer the above question. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.160|172.70.91.160]] 22:19, 29 April 2025 (UTC)
:I think the Karpov part was copied and pasted from the explanation for xkcd:2936. I will delete it unless someone objects [[Special:Contributions/172.69.23.211|172.69.23.211]] 00:40, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

I somehow expected this to be a political comic[[Special:Contributions/162.158.166.252|162.158.166.252]] 03:11, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

I don't play video games, but I'm pretty sure that this refers to the weird glitches in video games you can get into by choosing wrong moves at just the right point in the game. Players sometimes actively seek out, even if you can't play the game properly from inside the glitch. Of course the idea of entering a glitch while playing a real-life chess game is absurd, but in video games these errors are hard to prevent because it's so easy to overlook some rare but possible situations players could get into. See also [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GoodBadBugs] [[User:Franziska|Franziska]] ([[User talk:Franziska|talk]]) 10:51, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

This feels like it would open into the House of Leaves. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.130.177|172.70.130.177]]

Might've been romanticizing disregard for the meta. ''"It's funner to not keep score"'' thinking. Heavy ''"I don't want to play chess anymore"'' it's-better-than-chess romanticizing. --[[Special:Contributions/172.68.35.116|172.68.35.116]] 14:24, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

"The fact that an apparent distortion in the fabric of space can be countered with a single pawn just adds to the absurdity of the situation." - I'm fairly certain the idea is not that this chess position alters reality somehow, but that it is cognitohazardous - i.e. perceiving this particular board configuration interacts with the brain's learned pattern recognition for chess in a deleterious way. An 'adversarial example' for a human brain instead of a neural network. [[User:Somdudewillson|Somdudewillson]] ([[User talk:Somdudewillson|talk]]) 19:11, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

This reminds me of a story I heard about Kasparov, please feel free to fact check.
Kasparov was playing Deep Blue, the top chess playing computer at the time. Apparently, Deep Blue had a glitch, and made a legal but unreasonable move. Kasparov did not know it was a computer mistake, and looked for meaning in the move. Unable to find a reason behind the move, Kasparov was "thrown off his game" suspecting that the computer was trying something he could not figure out. This lead to a stalemate in that game, and ended up being the turning point between the matches between Kasparov and Deep Blue. {{unsigned ip|104.23.190.20|18:43, 1 May 2025}}

explain xkcd:Community portal/Proposals

2025-04-14T20:40:40Z

JimJJewett: /* Captcha repeat */ new section

<noinclude>{{Community links}}

{|-
|valign="top" width="100%"|[[File:Crystal Clear app ktip.png|left|120px]] <big><big>Proposals</big></big>

Place for ideas and suggestions to improve the wiki's design and organization on general issues can be incubated for later submission for consensus discussion. Be sure to check whether your proposal has already been submitted. {{AddNewSection|Page=Explain XKCD:Community portal/Proposals|Text=(+post)}}
|}</noinclude>

== XKCD Store link ==

I think there should be a link to the XKCD store on the left-hand navigation bar, just under "Main page". We don't want to inadvertently cost Mr Munroe money and force him back to his day job instead of drawing more XKCD :-) --[[User:SurturZ|SurturZ]] ([[User talk:SurturZ|talk]]) 20:23, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
:I don't see a prominent store link on the blog, so I'll wait for Jeff's input before adding that one. If we do add it, should we phrase the link "XKCD store"? --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 20:27, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
::[http://store.xkcd.com] - I'm cool with it, but maybe we put links to both xkcd and the xkcd store on the left, would be weird just to have the store link right? --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 20:01, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
:::Heh, yeah. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 20:12, 3 August 2012 (EDT)

Moved from [[Talk:Main Page]]. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 00:42, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

I added both. I'm not quite sure about their placement, though - having them beneath the "Community portal" makes logical sense but doesn't look that great. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 01:42, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

:I don't think the store link should be that prominently displayed. The sidebar is important real estate, and we should put only the most essential links there. There's no reason we'd need have the XKCD store link readily available on every page. I suggest removing it from there and adding it somewhere on the wiki (we could have a page about it, for example, and place it in the [[:category:meta|meta]] category). --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 12:36, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

:: Good call, Waldir - I agree. Seems a little ostentatious over there. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 12:13, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

:::Ok, I'll remove it then. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 14:12, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

== Centralize discussion? ==

There seem to be three main places for discussion about the wiki, and we need to centralize these so people can all be in sync and prevent having a mess nobody can navigate. I suggesting redirecting this page (talk:Main Page) to the [[Explain XKCD:Community portal|Community portal]], and add a large notice to Jeff's talk page also suggesting using the Community portal instead. Current discussions can be moved there. What do you think? --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 16:07, 3 August 2012 (EDT)

:Seems a good idea to me. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 17:00, 3 August 2012 (EDT)

::There are some suggestions on how to organize the community portal [[#Separate discussion page(s)|here]] (basically using subpages for different purposes, similar to Wikipedia's various Village pumps). Please comment :) --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 17:04, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
:: I agree - my talk page is probably not the best place for general wiki discussion, this is better, but best to keep everything together! --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 20:10, 3 August 2012 (EDT)

:::I'm importing [[wikipedia:Template:Village pump]] to set something like that up. I'll put a working draft in place, feel free to modify as needed, ofc. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 21:24, 3 August 2012 (EDT)

Moved from [[Talk:Main Page]]. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 00:46, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

== Site logo ==

''Summary of current proposals:''
{| class="wikitable"
|-
| [[File:Wiki.png | 166px | center | middle ]]
| [[File:Wiki high res.png | 166px | center | middle ]]
| [[File:Explain xkcd.png | 166px | center | middle ]]
| [[File:Explain xkcd2.png | 166px | center | middle ]]
|-
| [[File:Wiki2.png | 166px | center | middle ]]
| [[File:Wiki3.png | 166px | center | middle ]]
| [[File:Wiki4.png | 166px | center | middle ]]
| [[File:Explainxkcd-concept.PNG | 166px | center | middle ]]

|}

----
The main image (top left of the wiki) is not the best image ever. You really need to update it.

Maybe:
[[File:Wiki.png]]

Just an idea, because that text looks weird, or at least please add a transparent background instead of white for the logo (and center the text). --[[User:Grep|Grep]] ([[User talk:Grep|talk]]) 21:39, 1 August 2012 (EDT)

: I like it. What does everyone else think? (PS - don't forget to sign your entries on this page!) --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 21:18, 1 August 2012 (EDT)
: I could go with that. Had been kicking around some ideas, and if I had any artistic aptitude, it might have looked very much like that: the black-hat retort; alternately: the lowercase blue '''xkcd''' that RM uses (sans comic figure watermark) with a "Explain" in a hand-written typeface in some other color splashed across the top left part of those letters. And yes, definitely with transparency. Just thoughts... ultimately, whatever the consensus is... [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 01:51, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
:: Something like one of the following?
::[[File:Wiki2.png]][[File:Wiki3.png]][[File:Wiki4.png]]
:: --[[User:Grep|Grep]] ([[User talk:Grep|talk]]) 12:40, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
:I like that first one - [[:File:wiki.png]]. And perhaps use that same text for the [[#Robots.txt|Tagline]]? --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 19:50, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
:Yeah, the first one captures what I was thinking. I thought I'd download it to tweak it a bit, and quickly proved to myself how unartistic I am. I was thinking the xkcd pretty much overwhelming the bottom (touching all three sides) and the explain (first typeface) in tight, maybe at a 5 degree angle over the x and k. Of course envisioning it is one thing, realizing it another (it may be totally unrealistic...) but I toss that out for further consideration. -- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 00:25, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
::Hmmm, rereading Philosopher's comment, I think he and I may have been talking about two different images. Ooops. Anyway, was just chatting with a buddy who is more artistic than I am, and he created this mashup. He suggested: "Establish some vocabulary. First, xkcd needs to be bigger; it defies describing, and refuses to be pidgeon-holed into a box, so the xkcd needs to be so big that it doesn't fit entirely in-frame ... the Explain part has got to be casual, to represent the wiki and informal nature of contributing to it, and you gotta have it in close, because the contributors are going to get as close as they can to the truth. And keep it simple." (I broke with that, and tried to add the black hat; in doing so, I think I trashed transparency, tough) Anybody think that's worth taking a run with it? -- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 01:04, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
[[File:Explainxkcd-concept.PNG]]
<pre>
y
o
u
'
w r
ei e
xkcd
piau
l um
a sb
i e
n
</pre>

Moved from [[User talk:Jeff]]. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 00:37, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

I prefer the first option ([[:file:wiki.png]]). At the size the logo is meant to be, it's perfectly readable; furthermore, it's visually pleasant and it conveys the meaning well. We'll need it to be transparent, and editing the file at the current size produces sub-optimal results. [[User:Grep|Grep]], could you please generate a transparent version of it and reupload it to overwrite the current image? --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 05:14, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
:Slight problem. I don't have the original "it's cause your dumb," I just copied it from explainxkcd.com header, and trying to remove the whitespace myself makes, well, suboptimal results. The font used was Heiti SC/TC, if you or anybody else wants to make it themselves. Also, maybe using #6e7b91 for the XKCD or something... it's the color RM uses on the home page.
:: I have uploaded a high res version of [[:File:Wiki.png]]. Not exactly the same, but similar. I used FreeSans and a xkcd font I found at the xkcd forum. I still have the SVG version.--[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 10:57, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

[[File:Explain xkcd.png | 166px ]] or [[File:Explain xkcd2.png | 166px ]]

I suggest the two above this comment. Both of these are designs be me. The first one has a nice xkcd logo-text that features many of the main characters. I personally think that it looks better aesthetically. The second one is a globe that is kind of a nod to wikipedia. The ballon is there because that seems to be an often reappearing theme in xkcd. Now I really need to make a note of this, but xkcd should be in lower case letters unless it begins a sentence. This error exists almost everywhere on this wiki, but we should try to keep it out of the logo (http://xkcd.com/about/ for proof). Also I think that the logos that just say "explain xkcd" are too simple and kind of borring. The use of both black and blue additionally bothers me. [[User:Alek2407|Alek2407]] ([[User talk:Alek2407|talk]]) 07:37, 5 August 2012 (EDT)

:I agree. I like the first one best, but [[Megan]]'s hair could be tweaked a little because it doesn't look a lot like her right now. Do you think you could do that? --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 08:31, 5 August 2012 (EDT)

:: [[File:Explain xkcd revised.png]] [[User:Alek2407|Alek2407]] ([[User talk:Alek2407|talk]]) 06:56, 6 August 2012 (EDT)

::: That's perfect :D I vote for this one. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 07:12, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
:::: By the way: could you make the background transparent instead of white? --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 07:12, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
::::: {{done}} We have a winner. Alek2407 - I'll leave a message on your contact page, but please email that logo to me with a transparent background. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 15:31, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
::::::Sent. 16:42, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
:::::::I've rescaled the image (poorly) and i have asked Alek for a smaller version. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 03:25, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
::::::::Remember it needs to be transparent as well. Also, I point you again to the suggestions I made [[#Naming conventions|below]] regarding how to properly setup the site logo. Replacing the image server-side is actually [[mw:Manual:FAQ#How do I change the logo?|recommended against by MediaWiki]] documentation. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 10:51, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
::::::::: Thanks Waldir, I'm going to have Alek keep it transparent (MS Paint is all I have and it kills transparency... ugh) and when he gets me the final one, I'll change the field and not just replace the wiki.png directly. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 12:25, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
:::::::::: +1 for MS Paint :) Brings me good memories... --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 18:37, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

I've always loved the "It's cause you're dumb" motto of the Explain xkcd blog, which furthermore is (to my knowledge) original to this website, so I strongly recommend a variant of [[:file:wiki.png]] for the logo. "explain xkcd" (and probably "the wiki" as well) should, I believe, be written with the very same typeface and case (ie full lowercase) than in [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wp-content/themes/lightword/images/header-image.png the header image] displayed on top of http://explainxkcd.com. - [[User:Cos|Cos]] ([[User talk:Cos|talk]]) 12:31, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

I wasn't sure if Alek was going to do this or not, so I made a transparent copy of the logo and resized it to the optimal 135x135 pixels myself. [http://i.imgur.com/FY9Bi.png Here] it is (aaaand, another captcha!). {{User:Omega/sig}} 09:50, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

:Thanks. I uploaded the image as a new version of [[:File:Logo.png]], so when Jeff does the [[#Naming conventions|configuration changes]], the site logo should be automatically updated. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 11:34, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

== Naming conventions ==

Wanted to start a discussion here on naming conventions, and two items come to mind:
# The name of Randall's site: XKCD or xkcd or Xkcd? I noticed that there, it's always written lowercase, when shown in uppercase, it's because it's in a small-caps or all-caps typeface. Should we follow suit?
# What is the name of this site? Explain XKCD, or ... ? Ultimately, I think this is Jeff's call, but I'm guessing the outcome may hinge on how we address the first question.
Should we normalize the references here to some convention, or leave the matter alone? I know that personally, I've always been writing lowercase xkcd, and usually using <nowiki>{{xkcd}}</nowiki> to link to the site (as in {{xkcd}}) to maximize links back to the site. Thotz? == [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 22:08, 5 August 2012 (EDT)

:For 1, I think there is no discussion needed, Randall makes this clear here: [http://xkcd.com/about/ How do I write "xkcd"?]. I already started changing some of the instances of all caps XKCD into lowercase xkcd on the wiki, but there are some places (such as in the logo, in the Explain XKCD namespace name, etc) that will require server access to fix. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 05:16, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
:Regarding 2, I was wondering the same when I started lowercasing xkcd. "Explain XKCD" makes more sense when xkcd is capitalized, but it looks a little weird IMO as "Explain xkcd". Maybe "explainxkcd"? "explain xkcd"? Or just ignore the initial strangeness and stay with "Explain xkcd"? --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 05:16, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
:
::I'm 100% with the lowercase conversion of XKCD everywhere, per Randall's explanation (indicated by [[User:Waldir|Waldir]]). Places where something needs to be done:
::* logo
::* "Explain XKCD" namespace (this could be tricky)
::* site name (the thing that <code><nowiki>{{SITENAME}}</nowiki></code> produces ; appears everywhere, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgSitename )
::* and of course, in the content text (see [[Special:WhatLinksHere/XKCD]] for instance)
::[[User:Cos|Cos]] ([[User talk:Cos|talk]]) 12:19, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

::: Just to give credit where it's due, it was [[User:Alek2407|Alek2407]] who first raised this problem, [[#Site logo|above]] :)
::: That said, for the namespace change it would be trickier for any of the other default namespaces, but the project namespace can be easily configured by setting <code>$wgMetaNamespace = "Explain xkcd";</code> in LocalSettings.php. The sitename can likewise be changed by changing, as you mentioned yourself, <code>$wgSitename</code>. It seems there is a consensus so I'll warn Jeff to take a look at that.
::: The logo definition should be changed from <code>$wgLogo = "$wgStylePath/common/images/wiki.png";</code> to <code>$wgLogo = "$wgUploadPath/c/c9/Logo.png"</code>. I've uploaded the current logo to [[:File:Logo.png]] (note: even though it is saved with a png extension at http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/skins/common/images/wiki.png, it was actually a jpg file!), and protected the image, so afterwards when we decide on a logo (and should we ever need to make adjustments to it), we can simply upload a new version of that file without needing Jeff to change things server-side. I'll also ask Jeff to perform this change. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 15:15, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
:::: This is all phenomenal. I'm down with "explain xkcd". I'll perform the server-side changes tonight. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 15:44, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
::::: Also, looks like you found out my leet jpg -> png converter aka renaming the file extension! --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 15:48, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
:::::: {{=P}} --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 16:57, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

== Spampage Rampage ==
Hail fellow admins, Jeff, distinguished editors all,

We've just been through a second spike of spam, (the first being around the 1110 Click and Drag comic) so as your friendly Angel of Death to such spammery, I'd like to open the floor to discussion on strategies to deal with the issue.

Personally, I don't mind the role of grim reaper for these miscreants, but I'd also prefer that it doesn't grow in magnitude; of late, I find myself almost exclusively dealing with the matter, leaving little enough time to enjoy the site, let alone contributing to it. Anything we can do to keep things under control would be appreciated.

So far, the spam comes in these flavors:
* One-timers. New users that create their own user page, oddly alike (couldn't be a spam-bot, eh?) always linking to "their" website. By far the biggest percentage of time the scythe falls, it falls on these.
** Two-timers. A variant of above, except they create one or two additional pages, typically the user's talk page, or a page same as the username, but not in the user namespace. Here too, quickly dispatched across the Styx.
* IPersonators: IP users that create faux user (and other) pages. Second largest group, though this trend has been growing, especially during this recent onslaught.
** A particularly insidious variant: IPersonators creating or modifying a real users' page. I've been pretty careful, so far, to track down the author, and block ''them'' (as opposed to assuming author = user) but I can see how this flavor of spam risks accidental blocking of legit contributors, which would be doubleplusungood.
* Jibberish vandal: Somebody creating content that isn't spam, but just repeated ''asdf'' or ''ghjkl'' content. Treated as above, though I don't call this spam in the logs. My guess is that this is a spam-bot under development. Fairly infrequent, and addressed using techniques as for above.

There are a few other one-off types, too, which I won't bother elaborating here.

So, the open-ended question stands: What do we do?

# There has been a suggestion to block IP-only contributors (ie must log in) ... perhaps only on an as-needed basis.
# Another thought would be to (by some as-yet unspecified means) prevent the creation, or cause the timely deletion, of user pages by other than said user.)
# Restricting external links (by a similarly as-yet-unspecified means) either to a specified approved white-list, or by a specified set of contributors (must have made more than n edits, for example.)
# Other thoughts? Let the discussion unfold...

No solution is likely to be perfect; this is a matter of raising the bar to where whatever processed meat can crest over it can be most easily managed... all without being so draconian that we compromise the appeal of the site.

All said, I have no problems with the grim reaper enterprise, but would like to spend more time in the [[User:IronyChef/TestKitchen|kitchen]], and less in the [[Special:Log/block|dumpster]].

A little postscript to put the issue into perspective: the ''top four contributors'', (as per Active Users as I write this) are as follows:
* Lcarsos [169 edits in the last 30 days]
* Davidy22 [282 edits in the last 30 days]
* Bpothier [298 edits in the last 30 days]
* IronyChef [433 edits in the last 30 days]
I can tell you that of my four-hundred plus edits, only about a dozen have not been spam related. Lcarsos and Davidy22 are two ace spam-seeking deputies, so a large part of their edits involve tagging pages with the spam template, not (as I'm sure they'd prefer) actually chiming in on matters xkcd. The rest of the field: not even close in terms of edit magnitude. -- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 15:30, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

:I was going to suggest a range block, but the IP addresses com from everywhere. The only pattern I can see is in the 83.<25 range. We could also change the captcha to cut into the bots for a little while. Another suggestion would be to create every explanation page, then mark the unfinished ones with the <nowiki>{{stub}}</nowiki> template, if that exists in this wiki. Then we can block anonymous page creation without having to worry about stopping anonymous users from creating new explanations. We'll have to make a few modifications to the site, to instruct users on how to find pages in need of explanations, but it'll kill all the userpage and self-help spambots. We can figure out how to deal with vandalism later - I would recommend implementing wikipedia's cluebot to automagically roll back page clearing and the like. [[User:Davidy22|Davidy22]] ([[User talk:Davidy22|talk]]) 23:16, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

:Also, we can semi-protect important pages like categories and templates. Chances are, anonymous users aren't familiar enough with wikis to be handling those anyways, and wiki veteran anonymous users will probably make an account. [[User:Davidy22|Davidy22]] ([[User talk:Davidy22|talk]]) 09:30, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

... ''Madame la Guillotine'' has been busy, dealing with no less than four dozen spammified pages and their attendant contributors in the last hour, to address a third spike in spam. Our hyper-contributing editors have been helping identify these malefactors, so the process has been fairly straight-forward on my part, but it's awfully quiet here....

The top five contributors, as of this writing, are:
* Divad27182 [133 edits in the last 30 days]
* Davidy22 [202 edits in the last 30 days]
* Lcarsos [207 edits in the last 30 days]
* Bpothier [267 edits in the last 30 days]
* IronyChef [537 edits in the last 30 days]

Number six is comes in at less than half of Divad's, and the curve decays precipitiously from there... so this is becoming a call to arms for admins to convene and discuss, ''or'' Jeff to anoint other, more active contributors, admin status.

Thoughts?

-- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 06:02, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

:Would it be possible to volunteer to be another admin to move some of the load off of IronyChef? It feels slightly cruel and unusual for him to be the only active admin, and thus ad-hoc in charge of keeping the engines running. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 06:16, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

::Another admin is definitely needed, given the volume of spam. It'd be nice if we could [[Special:UnusedTemplates|clean]] [[Special:UnusedFiles|out]] the attic too. Shall we hold a vote? [[User:Davidy22|Davidy22]][[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>(talk)</tt>]] 06:41, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

::I only have sporadic time to do edits, so I'd likely not be an ideal choice if there can be only 1 more... --[[User:Bpothier|B. P.]] ([[User talk:Bpothier|talk]]) 07:19, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

::: This is yet again great. I'm researching SPAM prevention tools in use on other wikis. Let me know if you have something you think will work. Also, Lcarsos, you are up. Best new admin I can think of. I'm not afraid to add other admins if some (including myself) are less active. Other candidates can be submitted here. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 17:53, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

::::I'm immensely honored that you trust me that much. Thank you, I'll work hard to better the wiki. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 18:00, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

== Tagline ==

I haven't created [[MediaWiki:Tagline]] yet, but we need to think about what to put there. That's the familiar "From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia." over at Wikipedia - it appears right under the title of each page. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 10:39, 1 August 2012 (EDT)
 Moved from [[Explain XKCD:Community portal]] --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 00:09, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

:I think it's pretty obvious we should keep the "It's cause you're dumb." :) --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 13:20, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

:: Well, since there haven't been any objections, I went ahead and added it: [[Mediawiki:Tagline]]. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 18:46, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

== Separate discussion page(s) ==

I think we should create a separate Discuss the wiki page, so that each discussion can go under its own header. I'd suggest setting up a todo list where people can help out. I'd start with a suggestion:
: We should be using [[mw:Manual:Short URL|cleaner urls]]. Maybe [http://shorturls.redwerks.org/ this tool] can help setting that up. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 05:46, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
:: Whatever we do decide, I've created <nowiki>{{xkcd}}</nowiki> and <nowiki>{{explain}}</nowiki> templates to create links to the xkcd site and other explanations here on this site; that should factor at least those sites (nice central administration) as well as helping us categorize pages that use them. Was thinking of also <nowiki>{{wiki}}</nowiki> for the same benefit, even if there's already a prefix built into mediawiki... the only drawback is the bias toward the en side... [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 10:31, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
:::I'm liking the idea of creating a Discuss the wiki page - I'll start one if someone doesn't/hasn't beat me to it and add it to the sidebar. I'd asked for better URLs at [[User talk:Jeff#Robots.txt]], though I didn't know what they were called. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 17:17, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
::::I also like the idea of the {{tl|xkcd}} tags. On a related note, I've [[Special:Import|imported]] {{tl|tl}}. :-) <s> I also realize we don't have a secure server here, but I'd support the best practice of beginning URLs with protocol-relative links ( // instead of http:// or https:// ) anyway, especially since the xkcd website ''itself'' appears to be https-compatible.</s>Nevermind, it doesn't seem to be. So I guess it doesn't matter. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 22:40, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
::: Maybe we can create a subpage of the community portal for the wiki discussion. What do you think? --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 04:32, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
:::: Also one for editing coordination (see [[User:SurturZ/sandbox]] for instance), another for mediawiki assistance (requests to admins perhaps on the same page, or on a separate one). Any other ideas? --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 04:41, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
Moved from [[Explain XKCD:Community portal]], may need to be broken out into new headers or sub-headers. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 00:12, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

Great job on creating the subpages! I think the subpages can be made more intuitive for newcomers, though. Here are my subbestions:
* merge "/Design" and "/Proposals" into '''"/Discuss the wiki"''' or "/Improve the wiki" or something to that effect.
* rename "/Technical" into '''"/Tecnical assistance"''' so it is clear that it should be used for one-off issues rather than coordination of wiki-wide changes (which should go in the section above)
* merge the "/Administrator's noticeboard" above? That would reinforce that adminship is nothing but a set of technical tools to assist the wiki
* New '''"/Editing coordination"''' subpage for organizing what to do, maintenance, keeping a TODO list for newcomers to tackle, etc -- essentially like WikiProjects work at Wikipedia.
--[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 04:35, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

:As I see this, it would involve mostly just renaming pages. I don't particularly care what the names are, so I won't comment on that.
:*I'd like to keep /Administrator's noticeboard for the time being. The primary advantage of this is that administrators can watchlist this and things which need the tools are less likely to get lost in discussion. It can always be deprecated afterwards if it isn't being used enough.
:*I'd sort of seen /Design as doing what you're proposing for /Editing coordination, though I didn't explain it as well.
:--''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 18:43, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
:: Ok, I get what you mean with the Admin page. I don't think this wiki is going to be that busy to warrant a separate page, though. But for now, let's at least simplify the name? "Admin requests", for instance :)
:: And yeah, Design isn't really a good name for content-related coordination. What I'm suggesting here is to have one page for meta (wiki-related) discussion, and another for content-related discussion. Does that make sense? And what name do you think would be good for the former rather than the current, too generic imo, "Proposals"? --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 19:20, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

:::"Discuss the wiki" sounds good to me, as does "Admin requests." Or whatever, I guess. ;-) I may not be online much for the next few days (or much this evening), so go ahead and change it how you think it should be, I guess. Having stable discussion pages sooner than later would be good. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 01:48, 6 August 2012 (EDT)

:::: Ok I changed the admin page name, and merged "design" and "proposals", but for now I left it named "Proposals". I'm not quite confident about the clarity of "Discuss the wiki"... I'll wait until others comment here. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 14:06, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

::::: I'm not seeing any further discussion and it's been a few days since the move, so I'm clearing the sitenotice. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 02:38, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

== Automatic Import ==

Hi

I created a draft for the comic pages. It's still work in progress, but I'd like to retrieve feedback.

Also, maybe we could autmatically import comics using the JSON data Randall gives us ([http://xkcd.com/614/info.0.json]). This way, we could also include transcripts. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 15:23, 1 August 2012 (EDT)
: Hm, I should add a link to my draft: [[User:SlashMe/Testpage]] ;-) --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 06:54, 2 August 2012 (EDT)

I updated the page, including links to the next/previous comic similar to [[Template:ComicHeader]]. I used comic 472, because it has a lot of metadata (link, news, HTML title, etc.). --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 07:32, 2 August 2012 (EDT)

Just to remind everyone, I'd be ready to import the comics, but I don't want to until I got more feedback. Please have a look at [[User:SlashMe/Testpage]] and tell me your opinion. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 06:02, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
: I think your test page looks great. I'm a big fan of it. Any way to fit the text in the text box rather than having it run all the way to the right? --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 18:19, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
:: I just made a change concerning line breaks, at least it works in Firefox and Chrome. Could somebody please test it in different versions of Internet Explorer?
:: If you agree, I would start uploading tomorrow. I'll send you a mail. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 18:31, 3 August 2012 (EDT)

Moved from [[User talk:Jeff]]. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 00:38, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

The discussion is now at [[Explain XKCD:Community_portal/Design#Header template]]. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 04:20, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

== Displaying Comics {{done|Closed}}==

For the home page, I think the comic and explanation should be displayed instead of a link to the comic.

For reasons unknown to me, I decided to create [[Template:Comicbox]] and [[Template:Comicbox2]]. Looks nice, as long as you use the correct one for the comic.

Go to [[User:Grep/comicbox]] and [[User:Grep/comicbox2]] for examples. --[[User:Grep|grep]]:[[User_talk:Grep|talk]]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=p&f=ex_grep applaud]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=c&f=ex_grep smite]
:Those're wonderful! And should probably be on the main page. If you wanted, we could probably incorporate them (and maybe a third?) into a single template with a "square/vertical or horizontal" switch. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 21:36, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
::Also, you used "comicbox" for the class. Is that a class that's defined somewhere? (And if so, where?) --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 21:36, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
:::Good point. Removed. And merging them sounds wonderful. --[[User:Grep|grep]]:[[User_talk:Grep|talk]]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=p&f=ex_grep applaud]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=c&f=ex_grep smite]
::::Maybe merging them into [[Template:comicbox]]? --[[User:Grep|grep]]:[[User_talk:Grep|talk]]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=p&f=ex_grep applaud]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=c&f=ex_grep smite]
:::::I think classes are defined at [[MediaWiki:Common.css]], so if you really wanted to define the class.... And [[Template:Comicbox]] would probably be best. Did you want to merge them or should I take a look at it? --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 22:25, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
::::::ParserFunctions and any sort of non-XMLish markup is weird. I would rather you look at it. --[[User:Grep|grep]]:[[User_talk:Grep|talk]]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=p&f=ex_grep applaud]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=c&f=ex_grep smite]
:::::::Okay, I've moved your templates to {{tl|Comicbox square or vertical}} and {{tl|Comicbox horizontal}} so I can work on {{tl|Comicbox}} as the main one. It may take a while - I like to think of myself as a "[[wikipedia:Category:User template coder|master of all known wikimarkup]]," but I don't actually use those skills that often. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 23:08, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
::::::::Thanks. --[[User:Grep|grep]]:[[User_talk:Grep|talk]]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=p&f=ex_grep applaud]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=c&f=ex_grep smite]
:::::::::I've made it at {{tl|Comicbox}}. This actually leaves {{tl|Comicbox square or vertical}} and {{tl|Comicbox horizontal}} unused, though I credited you (and them) in a comment at the top of the template. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 00:21, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
::::::::::I think that the explanation should be on the right because it just looks weird as is... --[[User:Grep|grep]]:[[User_talk:Grep|talk]]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=p&f=ex_grep applaud]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=c&f=ex_grep smite]
{{outdent}} Sure. But right now they both look like they're on the bottom? --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 20:02, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
:{{done|Fixed}} --[[User:Grep|grep]]:[[User_talk:Grep|talk]]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=p&f=ex_grep applaud]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=c&f=ex_grep smite]

===Sans-serif typeface {{done|Closed}}===
::::::::I like these, too, but the roman typeface... how do folks feel about sticking with a sans-serif typeface throughout the site? [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 00:13, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
:::::::::We should be able to change that wiki-wide through [[MediaWiki:Common.css]], I think. Unfortunately, I don't know enough CSS to do it. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 00:23, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
:::::::::: I believe sans serif is already the default wiki-wide. Those specific instances were deliberately coded to use a serif font. It's just a matter of removing <code>font-family: 'Times New Roman';</code> from the template. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 17:01, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
::::::::::: Oh, I'd missed that. I removed it. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 22:14, 3 August 2012 (EDT)

Moved from [[User talk:Jeff]]. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 00:37, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

== 'Explanation' rather than 'Description' ==

Can I suggest we use the heading "Explanation" rather than "Description" on the comic pages, since that fits with the name of the wiki? --[[User:SurturZ|SurturZ]] ([[User talk:SurturZ|talk]]) 09:20, 5 August 2012 (EDT)
:Agreed. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 14:27, 5 August 2012 (EDT)
::Seconded [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 14:04, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

== Randall in Comics ==

In comic 541 (TED Talk), Randall uses a Cueball character to refer to himself. How should this be included in the Wiki? Cited: http://xkcd.com/541/ AWiseGuy (talk) 21:50, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

:I think, since he also seems to appear as himself in [[1057: Klout]] it would be appropriate to create a [[:Category:Comics featuring Randall Munroe]] and parent it to [[:Category:Comics featuring real people]]. I'll let you do that. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 22:51, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

== Add explanations for what-if.xkcd.com ==
A new [http://what-if.xkcd.com sub-site] from Randall calls for new explanations.
This might not need quite as much explaining, but it is worthy of reference anyway.
--[[User:Divad27182|Divad27182]] ([[User talk:Divad27182|talk]]) 16:01, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

:I think Randall actually does quite a good job of explaining everything in what-if. If we had a go at it, it would pretty much just be a page with a link to general and special relativity pages of wikipedia. Other than that, he provides links for almost everything he discusses. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 18:21, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

:But we may want to discuss his topics among ourselves. I am reading the lightning topic today, and wishing I could comment on it or add fragments of my own experience to it.[[User:Noni Mausa|Noni Mausa]] ([[User talk:Noni Mausa|talk]]) 11:32, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
:
::...then you have http://forums.xkcd.com, made exactly for that purpose; in particular: [http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=94449 xkcd • View topic - What-if 0016: Lightning].
::Don't want to seem unfriendly here, I'm not trying to "get you out of here", it's just that if you want to ''discuss his topics'', ''comment on it or add fragments of your own experience to it'', then I believe that would be the best place for you to do so; and where you could find other people to share it, as well.
::[[User:Cos|Cos]] ([[User talk:Cos|talk]]) 17:38, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
:: Thanks, I will go have a look. I'm somewhat of a newbie, quod erat demonstrandum.[[User:Noni Mausa|Noni Mausa]] ([[User talk:Noni Mausa|talk]]) 02:37, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

== Explain other webcomics too? ==

How about we explain other webcomics too, e.g. Penny Arcade? --[[User:SurturZ|SurturZ]] ([[User talk:SurturZ|talk]]) 02:36, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
:Good god, no. We've barely even finished xkcd. All these explanations pages still need a lick of polish, and there's still heaps of red links in the list of all comics page. Also, the wiki's called explainxkcd. [[User:Davidy22|Davidy22]][[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 02:38, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

== Redirect main-page of explainxkcd.com ==

I mentioned this on the old site, but I guess this is a better place. The first page most people will get to is still the main explainxkcd.com page. With no more updates there it looks at first glance like a dead place, and when I out of habit go there, I still get an instinctive feeling that the site is dead because the first place I am send is a dead place. PLEASE redirect the main-page to this wiki, since this is the place that is still alive. [[User:Carewolf|Carewolf]] ([[User talk:Carewolf|talk]]) 14:40, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
: Good idea. Will work on that soon. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 17:49, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

== "Random comic?" ==

Not to clutter the sidebar, but what would you say to adding a "Random comic" right under "Random page", linking to [//dynamic.xkcd.com/random/comic/ //dynamic.xkcd.com/random/comic/] ? --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 01:46, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
:Naw, xkcd already has a random comic. I think we should have a ''random explanation''. ;-) All kidding aside, I was wondering: generating a random member of a category...? Has that improved since the early days when I tried to do something like that. -- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 03:19, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
::Hi. For how to do this, we could install the [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Random_In_Category Random In Category] Mediawiki extension, which would allow us to use <nowiki>[[Special:RandomInCategory/Comics]]</nowiki> to point to any random explanation. {{User:Omega/sig}} 22:42, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
::: Or we could move the comics into a Comic namespace, and use Special:Random/comic (See for instance [[Special:Random/template]]). This doesn't require any server-side changes. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 23:58, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

== Header template ==

Hi, I've created a template called [[Template:ComicHeader]], which might make things easier when creating comic pages (and also provide better consistency between the pages). I've used it on the [[Internal monologue]] page, to display the comic number and the date it was published. The template also adds the page to the [[:Category:Comics|Comics]] category.

You just need to add:
<pre>{{ComicHeader|1089|August 1, 2012}}</pre>
…to the start of the page (replacing the comic number and date).

I'll try to make the template look a bit nicer, but the great thing about templates of course, is that once they're updated, the changes are reflected on all the pages that include that template. --[[User:Yirba|Yirba]] ([[User talk:Yirba|talk]]) 18:46, 1 August 2012 (EDT)

:By the way, I'm thinking of maybe programming something that would allow you to easily import the comic image and alt text from xkcd without having to upload the images manually and the like. You'd just have to host a single PHP file on your server and make a few changes to the MediaWiki configuration. Of course, you'd be able to see source code and everything to make sure I'm not trying to do something fishy. :-P Let me know what you think. :-) --[[User:Yirba|Yirba]] ([[User talk:Yirba|talk]]) 18:54, 1 August 2012 (EDT)
::Yirba - I like the idea. My email is explain@explainxkcd.com - send me what you put together and we can sort it out. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 19:37, 1 August 2012 (EDT)
::Ditto on the Template. Up-vote. Any thought on harvesting the pre-wiki content from ExplainXKCD with some sort of a Python, Perl, or PHP script? (That sounds more like a 'bot than something that would have to be hosted, though.) [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 01:52, 2 August 2012 (EDT)

::: I was thinking of putting it into a infobox, please [[#Idea|see above]]. I also intended to automatically extract data from xkcd, which would lack descriptions, but at least we would have data like title, image and transcripts. Also, there are some other data like links (e.g. 832), news (which are displayed in xkcd's header, e.g. 739) and titles which contain HTML (259 and 472). I also extracted all those data. When we agree on a page layout, I could begin programming a bot. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 06:54, 2 August 2012 (EDT)

::::Hmmm… an infobox may be a good idea. And a bot that imports data from xkcd might be handy. Anyway, here's something I programmed that would allow for access to the xkcd API from the wiki itself. Essentially, you'd put this xkcdinfo.php ([http://gist.github.com/3239432 source], [http://github.com/downloads/Yirba/yirba.github.com/xkcdinfo.php download]) file somewhere on the server (e.g. at http://www.explainxkcd.com/xkcdinfo.php) and [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Interwiki#Adding_a_new_website_for_interwiki_linking include it in MediaWiki's interwiki table] (ensuring iw_trans == 1):
<pre>INSERT INTO interwiki (iw_prefix, iw_url, iw_local, iw_trans) VALUES ('xkcdinfo', 'http://www.explainxkcd.com/xkcdinfo.php?input=$1', 0, 1);</pre>
::::After [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgEnableScaryTranscluding enabling scary transclusion] in LocalSettings.php, you'd then be able to send queries to the xkcd JSON API via this file. In other words, <code><nowiki>{{xkcdinfo:32-title}}</nowiki></code> would make comic 32's title appear. <code><nowiki>{{xkcdinfo:55-alt}}</nowiki></code> would make comic 55's image text appear. I've also set it so you could enter <code><nowiki>{{xkcdinfo:100-embed}}</nowiki></code>, and it would make the comic 100 image appear on the wiki page. Feel free to use it however you want (if at all), and modify the code should you wish. (Hint: Using the number 0 for the comic number will query the most recent comic, so <code><nowiki>{{xkcdinfo:0-num}}</nowiki></code> will return the current comic number. Also, adding "raw:" before "xkcdinfo:" might be more useful in some instances. E.g.: <code><nowiki>{{raw:xkcdinfo:555-title}}</nowiki></code>)--[[User:Yirba|Yirba]] ([[User talk:Yirba|talk]]) 14:50, 2 August 2012 (EDT)

::::: Nice idea, altough this would mean to load all data from xkcd whenever a page is <del>viewed</del><ins>edited</ins> (I think this is the way MediaWiki caches the data). This is a lot of traffic for little data. I'd say to include the metadata statically, but linking the external image seems a good thing to me. Again, it'd be great if you gave me feedback for [[User:SlashMe/Testpage|my idea]]. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 15:54, 2 August 2012 (EDT)

::::::Yes, the data would be loaded from xkcd for each edit. You can, however, substitute (subst) the template for data that is unlikely to change. And therefore the data would indeed be stored statically. I like the layout you've come up with. It could perhaps do with a bit of tweaking here and there, but the general idea is good. --[[User:Yirba|Yirba]] ([[User talk:Yirba|talk]]) 17:16, 2 August 2012 (EDT)

::::::: What kind of tweaking do you mean? I know the code is a bit messy, if you have a better idea, please tell me (or do it yourself - hey, it's a wiki!). The CSS should be placed in an external file, but for now, it's ok. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 17:51, 2 August 2012 (EDT)

Looks like there is another/newer template called [[Template:Comic]] that includes prev/next buttons as well.
You add it with:
<pre>{{comic
| number = 1
| date = September 30, 2005
| title = {{PAGENAME}}
| image = barrel_cropped_(1).jpg
| imagesize =
| alttext = Don't we all.
}}

Moved from [[User talk:Jeff]]. --~~~~
==Description==
xxxxxxxxxxx
</pre>
No need to include the alt text separately, as the template does it for you. It also includes the comic category, but only if the first 4 fields are filled out.
--[[User:Bpothier|B. P.]] ([[User talk:Bpothier|talk]]) 18:47, 3 August 2012 (EDT)

: Yes, but that is not necessarily an advantage. My template only creates the infobox, so you are still able to create an introductory text or other sections, for special comics that need a more detailed description. I can also add categories if needed. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 19:02, 3 August 2012 (EDT)

::I think it is a major advantage to make the thing easier to use and more consistant site-wide.

::As the creator of the new one, I'm obviously biased, but I created it because I think it's better. Not putting your work down, it was a great piece of code that I put to work in my template. But I think if there's need for pre-text of any kind (not sure there is, as the articles probably should all open with the comic itself as presented on XKCD), a pre-comment can be added into the template, but I'm not sure what that would be. Perhaps there would be a requirement for special circumstances like the comic a few weeks ago where there were a million iterations depending on locality, browser, etc. But that's the rarity. I think the new one simplifies it for users. They need only one template to post the comic, alt text title and nav buttons. What could be easier? [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 19:08, 3 August 2012 (EDT)

::: As the creator of the other one, I'm equally biased. What about a "main template", which then calls one or two other templates (e.g. one for the infobox, another for image and alt text? For most comics, this main template could be used, but if absolutely needed, it would still be possible to use the underlying templates with custom sections/text. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 19:15, 3 August 2012 (EDT)

::::I just now saw your request for feedback on your new comic page with the sidebar. I honestly am not sure which format is better. I kind of like my format for the fact that it basically presents the comic as it was originally posted, but your infobox does provide some additional stuff like 3D link (not sure what "news" is, of where the "link" comes from but...) Perhaps we could integrate the two. I like that the comic is visble right away on my template, but on your page it's down below the first header. I don't think the comic itself needs an "image" heading. No disrespect, but I think your sidebar, esp. because of the "news" field is a bit chunky - too wide for most of its content.

::::I think we could easily add things like a "3d" link into {{tl|comic}} as part of the next/prev bar where a "3D" field in the template is non-blank. Similarly, original title could read something like (Originally titled: xxxxx) below the primary title in a smaller font. Other than the "link" and "news" fields (which again, I'm not sure what they are), I think that would inclde all the same info as your infobox into my template. Thoughts?

::::As to your other comment about compartmentalizing the template, I have nothing against that, but which parts of the template would you want to be able to use separately (and can you suggest an example where that might be necessary?) Subdividing the template can always be done later if it becomes needed; just trying to get an idea of what you have in mind by compartmentalizing it. Cheers [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 19:43, 3 August 2012 (EDT)

Moved from [[User talk:Jeff]]. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 00:37, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

{{outdent|::::}}

''Suggestion:''

* I will start by uploading all images. This will take some time and has no points to discuss. (If it has, tell me.) At a later point, maybe we could link them directly from xkcd.com.
* For the comic pages: Let's say we'll use {{tl|Comic}}. I'll change the arguments of the template to be more like my {{tl|Infobox comic}}, see [[Template:Infobox comic#Arguments|documentation]]. I'll keep the ''alttext'' argument, but make ''image'' optional (file name should be guessed from the title). Do we really need ''imagesize''?
* {{tl|Comic}} would then call some further templates, passing the appropriate arguments. This way, we are able to use custom sections/text if needed for special comics (like [http://xkcd.com/1037/ Umwelt]) by using these templates instead of the all-in-one {{tl|Comic}}.
* Since we have one template doing all the work, we can easily change the page layout even after the import. (We should only keep track of the pages that don't use {{tl|Comic}}, using a hidden category)
* For consistency, I would move all existing pages out of the way and re-create them. The moved pages could be collected by adding them to a category like [[:Category:legacy pages]], so they should easily be found. Descriptions should be moved to the new pages, afterwards the legacy pages can be deleted.

This way, I can import all comics, but we would still be able to change the layout afterwards. My 2ct concerning page layout:
* <del>'''Use comic titles as page names.'''</del><ins>(See below)</ins> The title should be prominent, the number will be in the infobox.
* I'll remove ''Original title'', ''news'' and ''link'' from the infobox and move them to a section after the description. (For details, see [[Template:Infobox_comic#Documentation|here]])
* suggested layout:
<pre>
=====page title=====
+--------------------+ +---------+
| | | infobox |
| image | | text |
|(no section heading)| | |
| | | |
| | +---------+
+--------------------+
==alt==
text
==description==
text
==transcript==
text
==original title, news and link== (if available)
text
</pre>

Still open for opinions.--[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 04:13, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

:It might make more sense to use the comic number as the page title, and then use [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgAllowDisplayTitle DISPLAYTITLE] to make the comic title appear in place of the number. Just putting that out as another possibility. --[[User:Yirba|Yirba]] ([[User talk:Yirba|talk]]) 09:49, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
::Good point, I agree. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 09:54, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

If anyone wants to use it, I've written a bot [http://pastebin.com/5F877BHE] that can upload images, create redirect pages, and create comic pages. You can change the format it uses for the comic page if you have some knowledge of python. To use it, look at [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Pywikipediabot/Quick_Start_Guide]. --[[User:Cyanfish|Cyanfish]] ([[User talk:Cyanfish|talk]]) 10:56, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
:Sorry, I was faster. I'm using [http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/mwclient/ mwclient], and I already uploaded all images. I could also create pages and redirects, but I'm waiting until we have a consent. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 11:02, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

::A few thoughts: if you start uploading images, but don't create the comic pages with them, a user going to create a new comic page isn't going to know whether or not the comic image has already been uploaded. This could be confusing. Hopefully the uploads are going to be named the same as the original images? (when I do upload, I actually just paste the URL in my "browse" box and upload directly from my browsers cache that way so it works out), but I just want to avoid duplicating images on the server as well as wasting time by trying to upload something that's already there.

::As to the page layout, I'm still of the view that the transcript should be in a collapsed frame so that it doesn't take up half the article. I don't honestly think that most people are coming to read the transcript. I could be wrong tho. Open to opinions on that. Otherwise, I do like transcript AFTER The explanation (also, the heading "explanation" vs. "description" as mentioned in another discussion in the portal. [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 14:09, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

:::PS: We definately need imagesize. It defaults to full size, but I think we definately need the optional argument for large comics. Remembering that this is a wiki to explain the comics, there are many large comics that ought to be restricted to a smaller size for the page (they can be clicked to enlarge - the template automatically creates a "click to enlarge" link if imagesize is used). I have generally been using a 375 or 400px size for keeping larger comics managable, but sometimes it's a comic-dependant decision. Also, notwithstanding my comment on another thread, even though I agree that the xkcd commentary is actually "title text", just as a side note, I've just noticed that the transcripts for older comics actually do call it "alt text") [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 15:40, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
:::: As long as no one has any objections, this header looks awesome (with ImageSize as TheHYPO suggested), so feel free to work on the importation functionality. Let me know if you need anything from me in order to import from the Wordpress side of things. If we start talking importation, lets move that conversation under a different header. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 15:56, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

=== Date format ===

I suggest to enter the date as YYYY-MM-DD and using <nowiki>{{#dateformat: {{date}}}</nowiki> in {{tl|comic}}. This way, the date should be displayed using the personal preferences (see [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-datetime]]). Does anyone disagree? --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 20:42, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

== comic header ==

Jeff, further to your previous conversation on the comic header, I've significantly rewritten Yirba's template (thanks to Yirba for the hard work. His navigation bar was very useful) and I've created a new template of {{tl|comic}}. An example of the comic in use can be seen at [[T-shirts]]. I started a discussion on the main page discussion board, but I thought if I pointed it out to you and you like it, it can start going in the rotation for new comics.

I actually now see that Grep did a template up with intent (I think) to use for the main page. Had I known that when I started, I would have probably based my template off of his, because it looks nice, but either way, mine is intended for the actual articles. [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 14:46, 3 August 2012 (EDT)

:Again, may I link to <del>[[User talk:Jeff#Automatic Import|my request for feedback]]</del>? --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 15:52, 3 August 2012 (EDT)

The discussion is now at [[Explain XKCD:Community_portal/Design#Header template]]. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 04:17, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

Moved from [[User talk:Jeff]]. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 00:37, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

== Bylines ==
In the migration from blog to wiki, I noticed a few things:
# Visitors still seem to assume there's a single, ''invisible other'' that provides the explanations; this might be a carryover from the blog days when Jeff was the author of that content, or it may be newcomers not familiar with the license-to-create a wiki offers. You see it in comments that call out corrections, without the corrections actually being made to the explanations. Usually a more savvy editor swings in, makes the fix, and chimes in on the comments.
# There's no visual cue on the page itself to disabuse a novice of that fact. Sure, wikiphiles will check the history; but aside from that the novice has is left in the dark, and certainly isn't led to the conclusion that they, too, can contribute to the explanation.
To that end, I was wondering: why not put a {{tl|byline}} on each explanation, and give credit where credit is due? I know Waldir wanted to "gamify" the wiki a bit. I don't know that I'd go ''that'' far, but putting bylines does kill a few birds by raising awareness of the democratic approach to explanations, and giving kudos to the contributor(s). I've prototyped it (and of course, it's subject to revision) but here's how it would work:
* '''<nowiki>{{byline|you}}</nowiki>''' produces {{byline|you}}
* '''<nowiki>{{byline|you|me}}</nowiki>''' produces {{byline|you|me}}
* '''<nowiki>{{byline|you|me|someone else}}</nowiki>''' produces {{byline|you|me|someone else}}
* More concretely, '''<nowiki>{{byline|Jeff|Waldir|IronyChef|Blaisepascal}}</nowiki>''' produces {{byline|Jeff|Waldir|IronyChef|Blaisepascal}}
(in general, the parameters are the usernames, up to about 5 or six contributors, for now.) Was thinking about having the content be automatically turned into wiki-links, but left that out while we think it over. Thotz? -- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 04:22, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
:: How would we indicate who is in the byline? The person who created the page? The person who edited the most characters? Would it be a combination of all the names? --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 14:32, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
:::I have to say, it sounds contrary to the whole wiki premise. I agree with you that there does seem to be a bit of a learning curve here, but I don't know if "crediting" the explanations is the right solution. How much editing does one have to do to get credit on an article? You might get people who want to edit just to get credits, and credits over time could get relatively lengthy. [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 14:41, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

== Template improvement suggestion ==

Can I suggest that we work on improving {{tl|ComicHeader}} - I wish I had time to do it myself and then edit all the comic pages, but I would suggest the best way might be to start a new template (perhaps design it a bit more like an infobox) and start converting the old pages over to new ones.

The feature I think should be added is that, where the template currently includes teh comic number and date, and creates the nav header, the template really ought to include the image name, and the alt text. In that way, the template can produce the entire part of the article that displays the comic and its alt text (and the alt text, as mentioned, could be more like a caption, instead of just looking like a generic section of the article - it's part of the comic, it shouldn't look like part of the article on this site (no offence, Jeff, but that's one thing I always didn't like about explain XKCD - the image text should be bold or underlined or italics or something to signify that it's part of the comic and not the explanation.

I'll see if I can work on a prototype. [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 12:29, 3 August 2012 (EDT)

:What does everyone thing of this as a better layout? [[Blown Apart]] [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 13:09, 3 August 2012 (EDT)

::May I link to <del>[[User talk:Jeff#Automatic Import|my request for feedback]]</del>? --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 15:52, 3 August 2012 (EDT)

Moved from [[Talk:Main Page]]. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 00:44, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

The discussion is now at [[#Header template]]. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 04:17, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

== Transcripts ==

Do we need to add a whole section on "Transcript" for each comic? That could get very long for some comics, and basically pushes the explanations down further (which is what people generally come to explainxkcd for). If anything, perhaps the transcripts could be in a minimizable box like some navboxes do on wikipedia? I don't see a majority of users coming to read the transcripts... [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 19:15, 3 August 2012 (EDT)

: What about putting the transcripts at the bottom of the page?
: BTW: If you agree, this discussion should be moved to [[Explain XKCD:Community portal]], as [[User:Waldir|Waldir]] suggested. At least for new discussions. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 19:19, 3 August 2012 (EDT)

::No problem there. Feel free to move it. [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 19:29, 3 August 2012 (EDT)

:::How about having it be collapsed, with the option to expand it (TOC-like)? -- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 04:25, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Moved from [[Talk:Main Page]]. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 00:47, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

The discussion is now at [[#Header template]]. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 04:18, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

== Adding a new comic ==

This is the process I use to add a new comic. YMMV... Feel free to update this as/if needed to provide some consistency...--[[User:Bpothier|B. P.]] ([[User talk:Bpothier|talk]]) 19:22, 3 August 2012 (EDT)

I start by uploading the image using the name from [[XKCD]]'s page.

I create the new page using the comic number(not the name), e.g. "http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1"

I (currently) insert using the "Comic" template:
<pre>
{{comic
| number = 1
| date = September 30, 2005
| title = {{PAGENAME}}
| image = barrel_cropped_(1).jpg
| imagesize =
| alttext = Don't we all.
}}
==Transcript==
This is the transcript from xkcd
==Description==
Wow what a cool comic!
</pre>

I "Show preview" to ensure the image shows up and everything looks good.

I "Save page".

I click the "move" link on the down-arrow drop-down menu to the right of "View history" (at top of page).

I rename the page from "1" to the page title from [[XKCD]].

This will automatically create a redirect from "1" to the correct page name without having to do it manually.
--[[User:Bpothier|B. P.]] ([[User talk:Bpothier|talk]]) 19:22, 3 August 2012 (EDT)

:Please, have a break here. When we agree on a page layout, I can do this automatically. I repeat, when we agree on the layout (which should also include the direction of the redirects) --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 19:25, 3 August 2012 (EDT)

Moved from [[Talk:Main Page]]. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 00:47, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

The discussion concerning the layout is at [[Explain XKCD:Community_portal/Design#Header template]]. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 04:18, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

== styling of xkcd links ==

I added code to the end of [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] to style links to the xkcd website as http://xkcd.com rather than the regular external link format, http://example.com. What do you guys think? --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 05:06, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
:I like it generally. Is there a way to force it to not display on individual pages, though? I don't think we should have it at [[Explain XKCD:Copyrights]], {{tl|XKCD file}}, or {{tl|XKCD file derived}}, as they are more serious. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 16:27, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
::Sure. I've disabled it on those pages, feel free to add more as you see fit. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 17:22, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
:::Thanks! --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 18:34, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
:I like the idea of the graphic, too, but wonder if it could be muted a bit (medium gray vs black) so it recedes a bit into the background; the classic graphic is a very light blue for that reason, too. (Oh, and a minor quibble... overheard: "who is that short, bearded dude?" "Oh! That's megan?") ... I don't know how we could update it, and maybe it'll be less of an issue when muted... Thotz? -- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 14:16, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
::The image can be updated by uploading new versions of [[File:xkcd favicon.png]]. It doesn't need to be the xkcd.com favicon; in fact, it would be good if we could make it even smaller (e.g. just cueball's head, or simply "xkcd" in the typical handwritten font, etc). Making it dimmer also seems like a good idea, btw. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 19:38, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

== Allow external inline images ==

Hi. I'd like to propose that we set [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgAllowExternalImages $wgAllowExternalImages] to true '''or''' add <tt>xkcd.com</tt> and some image hosting sites (such as <tt>imgur.com</tt>) to [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgAllowExternalImagesFrom $wgAllowExternalImagesFrom]. If the former is set to true, external images will be allowed from any host, whereas if the former is kept as false but we add some sites to the latter (obviously adding xkcd's site itself seems to be the logical choice), then only images that are from whitelisted sites can appear as inline images. What this does is it allows external images to be displayed as an actual image, rather than just a link (note that sites not in the whitelist will still appear as just the link). Why? Because there's no way to display images without uploading them. Obviously some editors may wish to use images for non-wiki purposes, such as proposing alternative logos or for their userspace, in which case uploading the images to this site isn't entirely practical. Allowing externally hosted images to be displayed will alleviate that problem.

Yes, there is the risk of... less appropriate images being displayed, however, I consider that being a null argument, as editors could just as easily upload the image here and link it as an internal image. As well, using the whitelist alternative would limit the image to being posted from a trusted site, such as imgur. Finally, if worries about nude photos being posted is really a concern (seriously, what's stopping an editor from just uploading said image here? Nothing.), it's possible to only whitelist sites which don't permit nude images from being hosted on their site (such as <tt>imageshack.us</tt>), although I think that's a bit extreme (especially considering that imgur is hands down the most popular image host these days). {{User:Omega/sig}} 07:52, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

:I really don't see a compelling reason to have this. It's not about improper images or anything. (Note that we already have access to all images in [[commons:|Wikimedia Commons]], by the way, which has a large variety of images and other media, with the added benefit that we're sure they can be reused without licensing concerns). A specific whitelist could be interesting (e.g. we could hotlink the images from xkcd), but having the images here allows us to do neat things like categorizing them by topic, size, etc. Also, images like logo proposals, etc. do benefit from being uploaded here (for historical interest, for a guarantee that they won't be deleted wherever they're hosted, for better control regarding how they're displayed, etc.) --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 19:27, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

== Latest comic handling ==

Currently the latest comic is handled automatically by the {{tl|LATESTCOMIC}} template, which tests the existence of pages like 1092, 1093 (supposed to be redirects to the corresponding comics), to see which is the highest-number existing page, and consider it the latest comic.

That way we can have the latest comic automatically transcluded on the main page.

But we cannot have, with that system, an automatic "Edit" link (to edit the latest comic) on the main page, nor can we have automatically the comments associated with that latest comic. The former was {{diff|5587|changed to a "Go to this comic" link}}, and the latter was {{diff|4940|removed}}. I think both of them are really useful things to have on the main page.

I've been thinking a little bit about this, and in the end I suggest that we handle manually the latest comic :
* There would be a single {{tl|latest comic}} template, which would have to be updated manually to return the full title of the latest comic's page (such as "1092: Michael Phelps").
* Next to the "Latest comic" header, on the front page, would be appended a "[update]" link, to a page explaining that to insert the new latest comic in the wiki: one needs to 1/ create a page titled "<number>: <title>" and 2/ update the {{tl|latest comic}} template with the new title.
* The "Edit this explanation" link could be put back on the main page, using something like <code><nowiki>[{{fullurl:{{latest comic}}|action=edit}} '''Edit this explanation''']</nowiki></code>. And I firmly believe that link is important. ({{diff|5598|*this*}} for instance is exactly what I'm talking about)
* The comments to the latest comic could be appended under the latest comic's transclusion, with something like <code><nowiki>{{ {{TALKPAGENAME: {{latest comic}} }} }}</nowiki></code>. They could be in a collapsible area if they take too much space. Same here than about the edit link, I believe that's really important to impel/motivate readers to leave their comments as well.
* Finally, when only the number is needed (such as in the computation of the number of missing explanations), this could be done via another template (for instance {{tl|latest comic number}}), automatic this time, which would replace the current {{tl|LATESTCOMIC}} by extracting the value out of {{tl|latest comic}} (with something like <code><nowiki>{{#explode:{{latest comic}}|:}}</nowiki></code>).

So, yes there would be a value to update manually, but that's not really much and if it's part of a process I don't think that would be a big drawback, and on the other hand I think it would be less error-prone than an automatic calculation, and allow more useful things. And make less use of redirects as well. Furthermore, the current {{tl|LATESTCOMIC}}, used quite a lot (in the sidebar, so in every page actually), makes heavy use of the <code><nowiki>{{#ifexist:...}}</nowiki></code> parser function, [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions##ifexist|qualified as "expensive"]], so even though it may not be a big deal it could be a better option to try to avoid that...

What do you think?

[[User:Cos|Cos]] ([[User talk:Cos|talk]]) 16:53, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
:Quick interjection in the middle of this larger posting, but I've been playing around with a template that should radically simplify the exhaustive and expensive logic used by {{tl|LATESTCOMIC}} by using date math. It's been simmering in my test kitchen, and I'm fairly sure it's robust enough to roll out... just one thing: it would be much more efficient if we had the Variables extension (ie, ADMIN REQUEST) else there would be a lot of duplicate recalculation of the date. Not terrible, but not as good as it could be. See {{tl|LatestComicOnDate}} and the associated talk page for the guts of it. -- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 04:14, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

:A few considerations:
:* We can instead add the edit link directly to the comic page. It could be generated by the {{tl|comic}} template, which already has to be provided with both the number and the title of the comic (in fact those could even be automatically extracted from the page title with some [[mw:Extension:StringFunctions|string parsing functions]] or {{w|Template:Str number/trim|clever}} {{w|Template:Remove first word|templates}}). This should solve the "edit this comic" link issue.
:* Actually, the discussion part was hidden from the main page on purpose (although for a different reason: it was transcluding the main page's own talk page instead). I am not sure it's a good idea to include it in the main page as it could clutter it, but I can understand the point of putting it there. I would suggest perhaps including it directly rather than inside the {{tl|comic discussion}} box, as that would create a box on a box layout that I don't think would look too good. Note that there is no problem with needing the pagename here, since we can transclude a redirect (the same way the actual comic page is transcluded using only the number, which is a redirect).
:* I did see that edit and was thinking that we could probably display a custom info message whenever someone attempts to edit main page, so they'll know they ''can'' edit the actual comic page. I'll add that to my todo list.
:* Mediawiki itself will tell us when a potentially expensive parser function is being used too much, by placing the corresponding page in [[:Category:Pages with too many expensive parser function calls]]. So we don't need to be concerned with {{w|premature optimization}} :)
:--[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 19:16, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

::The edit link can be displayed, specifically on the main page, by the {{tl|comic}} template, that is true; it just seems wrong to me however, it's not his job to do so...
::As for the comments, they cannot be displayed by the template (unless we put them before the explanation), so we still don't have a solution for them; and I still believe they would be very useful on the main page, very appealing for readers to come and comment as well.
::So, problem still not solved I would say... - [[User:Cos|Cos]] ([[User talk:Cos|talk]]) 16:27, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

::: I don't see the problem with {{tl|comic}} displaying the edit link on the main page, especially since you consider using it to display the discussion as well (which, I agree, unfortunately isn't possible)
::: I added the discussion to the main page. It will depend on a redirect being created for the talk page as well every time a new comic is released, but it doesn't make it any harder. Compare:
:::# Create comic page at <nowiki>[[123: title]]</nowiki>
:::# Update <nowiki>{{latest comic}}</nowiki>
:::# Redirect <nowiki>[[123]] to [[123: title]]</nowiki> (it's necessary to allow people to get to the comic with only the number)
:::with:
:::# Create comic page at <nowiki>[[123: title]]</nowiki>
:::# Redirect <nowiki>[[123]] to [[123: title]]</nowiki>
:::# Redirect <nowiki>[[Talk:123]] to [[Talk:123: title]]</nowiki>
:::Therefore, I don't see a strong case for creating the <nowiki>{{latest comic}}</nowiki> template. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 20:31, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
:::
::::You're right, the two systems are equivalent in use; but then is there a strong case to keep the current one against using the one I suggested?
::::Currently we cannot get an "add a comment" link on the main page, and to put the "edit this explanation" banner below the explanation one has to put it on the comic page (and manually remove it once the comic is not the latest any more). And when there is no comments yet, the main page displays a weird red link (transclusion of the redirect page to a non-existant page) instead of displaying (for instance) a nice "''No comments yet''".
::::True, the {{tl|comic}} template could be used to, specifically on the main page, display something like "view page - edit - add a comment" on top-right, but that doesn't solve all these issues, and then the links wouldn't be at their ideal place. And one could argue that all the features I'm speaking about are not absolutely necessary, but I still think it would be better at least.
::::All in all, I can live with the current system, but I still believe a manually updated <nowiki>{{latest comic}}</nowiki> would allow, without cost, to set a better layout of content, navigation links and edit/comment links.
::::[[User:Cos|Cos]] ([[User talk:Cos|talk]]) 16:46, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
::::
:::*I am in agreement that the goal should be to have the ability to comment directly onto the main page for the current comic.
::::Can all pages be formatted to look like the main page (ie header with number of comics explained/remaining and the 3 paragraphs at the end describing the site).
::::If this could be done (I don't think it would clutter the site as these take up very little space even on the main page), then could we just redirect the main page to the comic with the highest number? The function of the main page would not change as a new user would still see all information currently available on the main page, but it would have the added benefit of sending visitors to the desired location (the fully functional current comic page).
::::[[User:Shine|Shine]] ([[User talk:Shine|talk]]) 17:23, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

== How to reference strips? ==

I think we need to agree on a citation style for strips in plain prose. I.e. If the [[Black Hat]] article says "Black Hat first appears in ________", how are we filling that blank? In this case, the blank is [[29: Hitler]]. As I understand it, proper style for an "episode" name typically is quotes, so the stip is "Hitler". But there's still various options:

# "[[29: Hitler|Hitler]]" [quotes not linked]
# [[29: Hitler|"Hitler"]] [quotes linked]
# [[29: Hitler|Comic #29]]
# [[29: Hitler|#29]]
# [[29: Hitler]]
# "[[29: Hitler|Hitler]]" (29)
# "[[29: Hitler|Hitler]]" (#29)

etc.

Anyone have any opinions? [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 21:38, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

: Option 5. above seems the simplest, yet readable and informative. At most I'd prepend a # sign, like so: #[[29: Hitler]]. Being a link should be enough to differentiate it from the rest of the text (without needing quote signs). Alternatively, #7 also may be an acceptable option, but we'd need a template to make sure the formatting is maintained in all such references... I don't think it's worth the extra complexity. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 23:54, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
:: Whatever we decide, let's encode it into the <nowiki>{{xkcd}}</nowiki> and/or <nowiki>{{explain}}</nowiki> templates, and just agree to use those templates. That allows central administration of the stylistic issues and gives editors a simple rule to follow. Minor tweaks to either would afford that flexibility. Right now, they generate the links {{xkcd|29}} and {{explain|29}} respectively, though the latter can be {{explain|29: Hitler}} without much fuss. -- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 05:58, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
::: I support modifying the <nowiki>{{explain}}</nowiki> template to be along the lines of proposal number five. {{User:Omega/sig}} 09:20, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
:::: Five. yes. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 18:15, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

== Sidebar icons ==

Hi all. I hope you'll forgive my enthusiasm but I went ahead and implemented an icon theme for the sidebar (as well as more spacing between the links, for extra breathing room). What do you guys think of it? --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 21:45, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
:I like it, but I'm not sure where you added them. Was that on a MediaWiki: page or one of the .css pages? --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 01:39, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
::Both :) [[Mediawiki:Common.css]] --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 09:07, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

== Cueball/Rob ==

I noticed someone edited the character template to add an article for "[[Rob]]". I thought this might have just been a vandal edit, but I googled 'xkcd Rob' and discovered that indeed, a Cueball chracter has been referenced as Rob in several strips. Is there a reason Cueball hasn't been designated officially "Rob" just as [[Megan]] has been designated Megan by being named in a few strips? Do we have reason to believe that other Cueballs are non-Rob characters? PS: this might not be the right place for this discussion, but I'm not sure if anyone is reading article discussion pages at this point yet, and I thought that the name of the primary character might be a notable issue of discussion [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 14:07, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
:: I'm unclear on this as well. Cueball was just a name made up (I think here on this site) for the main character of the comic. Are there separate characters for Cueball and Rob? I'm not sure. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 15:52, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
:::I know that "Cueball" has now been severely grandfathered in, but I think we have to consider moving [[Cueball]] over to [[Rob]] and basically considering the Cueball character to be "Rob", in the same way as Megan, unless it's clear that the character isn't Rob, since Cueball, as noted, is not an official title. I'm somewhat leaning in this direction.

:::I do see some leakage of the term "Cueball" into other sites via a google search including xkcd forums. In the alternatively, I would suggest mentioning in the Cueball article that he has been referred to as "Rod" in some comics, but due to his lack of distinguishing physical traits, it is not always clear if a comic is depicting Rod, or a different character. [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]])
::::I have to agree with this. When I first heard about the page on "Rob", I was a bit skeptical, as I couldn't recall hearing the name before and the page was ridiculous at the time. However, after looking him up to try and verify the page, I found a number of "Cueball" characters that were referred to as "Rob", officially (and even an instance where the transcript referred to the character as "Rob" when the comic didn't mention a name). TL; DR: The character we've all called "Cueball" seems to be more properly known as "Rob". {{User:Omega/sig}} 22:46, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
:::::{{explain|285|Citation needed...}} I, for one, would oppose the migration away from Cueball.
:::::# {{w|xkcd|Wikipedia}} has been silent on the matter, giving no more credibility to the apellation than Cueball.
:::::# Transcripts in xkcd typically (granted, with a few exceptions) refer to the various stick figures as Person 1, etc. Frequently, there are several stick figures, all essentially the same generic stick-figure shape. Rob is a specific proper noun, and it would be silly to suggest that each stick figure is named Rob. Cueball, on the other hand, while filling the role of a proper noun, is still generic enough to suggest the any-man nature of the figures. It is descriptive more than nominative.
:::::# Local color. That's part of what distinguishes this site from others, and part of why I've been coming back. I for one would be sad to see that replaced with MacDonalds-like sameness. I ''might'' reconsider if RM's About page definitively said "his name is Rob"... but only reluctantly.
:::::So -1 on the proposition to migrate away from Cueball. -- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 04:55, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

::::::To respond to your points, #1, Wikipedia is not official or a primary source; it's a community edit encyclopedia like this one. If you'd like me to go over there and reference "Rob", then all of a sudden Wikipedia will say Rob. Wikipedia isn't the source of credibility for xkcd imo. #2 is interesting, and I take it as a fair point (I'm not suggesting that in every case we see a Cueball it is the same character) but my interest here is consistency. Megan appears in many comic strips where she is listed as "person 2" in the transcript, such as [[1084]]. Should she be given a generic name other than where she is named (Cuebelle?) Similarly for #3, Megan is not refernced on the xkcd About page; it's about consistency. I understand color and such, but to an extent, when you take something that's a blog and turn it into a wiki style pseudo-encyclopedia, one of the casualties sometimes is color. It became inappropriate to use phrases like "I think" in explanations just because of the way the articles are perceived. In the same way, consistency is something that I think is important when going to this style format. [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 14:26, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
::::::::::Just want to insert here that I laughed at "Cubelle" above, but though I enjoyed it, I'd have to say the visual similarity to Cueball would likely cause confusion. Props for the suggestion, though.--[[User:DanB|DanB]] ([[User talk:DanB|talk]]) 18:51, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
:::::::* Agreed that Wikipedia is not official or primary, but it is ''de-facto'' (it's likely more linked-to than even xkcd.com is on this site, for some reason.) That standing gives it a level of authority no other site has except the source itself. And agreed, one could very easily go and add Rob, or Cueball, or some other designation to the character(s). But nobody to date has (or, if they have, it may very likely have been reverted, being subject to that evolutionary force Wikipedia in aggregate exerts on subjects there, on needing to be noteworthy.) So while not an absolute authority, it caries a gravitas that other than xkcd itself, no other site really posesses on the matter, and so far, it (the collective body of contributors) has not deemed it important to settle the matter.
:::::::* I'm also not altogether convinced that, in transmogrification from blog to wiki, it necessarily follows that we must become more Wiki''pedia''-like. The medium has afforded a democratization of information here, but not a requirement that information lose its local flavor to become some dessicated academic dissertation. "I think" is, in my opinion, as valid here as it always was, and mediawiki doesn't necessarily impose otherwise.
:::::::* As for consistency, it serves its purpose, but generally I'm not one to be ruled by hobgoblins.
:::::::Anyway, the foregoing being only my opinion, and having express it, I leave it at that. Other minds may differ. -- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 02:30, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
::::::::It seems to me that this discussion has moved away from Cueball/Rob, and perhaps is deserving of it's own section now. When this site was a blog, and not a wiki, there was a clear separation between Jeff's explanations in the main body of the post, and the comments below. For the most part, Jeff wrote in an "editorial voice", and I don't recall a lot of "I think", "In my opinion", etc in the main posting (there was an occasional "I don't get this, can anyone explain it?", but that's clearly different). I know, at least, I've tried to maintain that color here: in the main page, editorial voice; in the discussion section (included at the bottom of every page, usually), personal voice. I think that works well. In my opinion, I think that "I think" and "In my opinion" have no place where it's not clear who the speaker is. The main pages are group edited, and have no identified speaker, so I wouldn't put it there. [[User:Blaisepascal|Blaisepascal]] ([[User talk:Blaisepascal|talk]]) 02:53, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
:::::::::I concur that Wikipedia has ''some'' gravitas over any other site, and there is a reason it has links here (it is easier to link to an existing encyclopedia article on {{w|quantum physics}} than to start from scratch explaining it here. But in the same way that this may soon be a "wikipedia" for all things xkcd, that still doesn't make explainxkcd official. It may be considered a more reliable source of information than some random blogger, but that doesn't make it an official source. Wikipedia, notably, doesn't call Cueball anything. If it called him Cueball, that would be one thing - the name would have pervaded culture outside this website; but Wikipedia takes no position; I don't see how we can take Wikipedia's failure to reference the character at all and use this as a rationale to make any decision on this site one way or another.
:::::::::I will respond to BlaisePascal's editorial voice comment in a new section [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 15:40, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

== Default color? ==

Frankly, I'm not even sure this is an issue on the wiki's end vs. the browser's default, but I've noticed this with other wiki-based software. With the default of Blue links and Purple visited links, I've been noticing a lot lately that the Purple visited links are not really standing out from the otherwise black text. Not sure why this is. Is anyone else noticing this? I'm having a hard time finding wikilinks in text that I've already visited. Perhaps it's just me. [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 14:37, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

: As a color blind user of explainxkcd, I'd like to put in a vote to up the contrast between visited and not links on the wiki. It doesn't need to be much, but more than it is now would be infinitely helpful. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 21:21, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

::Has this gone anywhere? I still find it hard to see the visited links (they now simply look like the rest of the text). And the unvisited links are hard to focus on. I'm not sure I can explain it any better. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 20:25, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

== Comments ==

Please let me know where the comments are for the latest comic. If
I'm not the only one who can't find them, can there be a link next to the comic?

== Editorial Voice ==

:''This section is split off in response to a comment by [[user:Blaisepascal]] in the Cueball/Rob discussion above.
I concur with Blaisepascal on the editorial voice issue. "first person" has no place in a wiki, as there is no single editor to be "I". I have a recollection that when the wiki started, Jeff said something about how in moving to a wiki, he had attempted to edit most of the explanations that has been moved over to remove most of the first-person references, but he invited others to continue this where he missed them. I can't, however, find this reference anywhere anymore. Assuming I am not making this up in my own mind, it's Jeff's site, so I think his style wishes are paramount.

I agree that most of the personal references on explainxkcd are things like "let's see if I get this right" or "Did I miss something?" or general bloggish comments like sorry I'm late to post; but there are other posts such as [http://www.explainxkcd.com/2010/10/18/connected/ this one] in which part of Jeff's post was: "''This is another one of those xkcd's that I classify as "emo". [...] Since there is nothing to explain here, [...] I'll wait for the next comic that makes a joke about Lord of the Rings and wormholes or something''" when moved over here.

The wiki format changes the nature of the explanations. It makes them no longer one person's opinion on the meaning of a comic. It is now a wiki where members of the public will aim to have a complete and accurate explanation built from many editors' thoughts and corrections. I don't think the articles need have encyclopedic definity. I have no issue with phrases like "it appears" or "it may be" where something is ambiguous, but "I think" or "I did a Google search" are not wikipropriate. [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 15:44, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

:For the most part I completely agree. But I think that the explanations should not be boring. Even without personal pronouns, many of them have a congenial tone, not an overbearing one.

:For example, when I brought over [[1030: Keyed]], I took out the personal pronouns, but I left in the comment "Oh Beret Guy, never change." I started coming to the site, in part, because of the tone. I think that that should be preserved despite the inherent non-oneness of the wiki. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 22:08, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

:: But the tone should not reflect individuals' tastes. Let the reader decide. --[[User:Smartin|Smartin]] ([[User talk:Smartin|talk]]) 04:47, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

== Discussion comments link? ==

*Does anyone else think that the {{tl|comic discussion}} template should have an argument added for some way to display a link to the comments section of the original blog posts for older comics? [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 15:48, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
**I'm not sure that it would always be clear what the comments are referring to since the explanation may differ from the original.-[[User:Shine|Shine]] ([[User talk:Shine|talk]]) 21:21, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
***I hear you, and that's a valid point; but it seems a shame to just discard the upwards of a hundred comments that sometimes took place on the old blog. I guess it also matters whether [[User:Jeff]] intends to delete the blog version at some point given the wiki. If it is going to stay up, why not link to the archived comments? The original blog post would be viewable there as well, if there were any differences relevant to those comments. [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 14:03, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
*I would, however, like something to be done about the issue of new users finding the discussion section from the explain wiki main page. A suggestion I saw recently on the old site by rewq^ suggesting changing 'go to this comic' to 'comments' would solve the problem. I think it could also be changed to 'go to comments' - [[User:Shine|Shine]] ([[User talk:Shine|talk]]) 21:21, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

That's an inventive answer to an intesreting question

== LiveJournal content ==

I've noticed that people are putting content from Randall's LiveJournal account into comic articles here, which I think is good. But I'd like to make some style suggestions around that.

Let's look at {{explain|42}}. Now, until someone explicitly pointed it out, I had no idea xkcd started on a LiveJournal account, so comments like "Original quote" or "Original comment" or "Original title" were confusing to me. I had no idea the source of this information. Now that I know better, my suggestions are as follows:

# These shouldn't be listed as "trivia". This is official content. I would suggest perhaps this be included in a "Background" section with any other background info on the comic (e.g. for some recent comics, it might reference Randall's fiancée's health issues for relevant comics).
# This "Background" section contains official content and more official than the "Explanation". The Background section should therefore go first.
# The section should be written in prose, not point form. My sample replacement for the above article would be "this comic was originally posted on Randall's LiveJournal account with the comment "''No laughing, 'less you want some of this too! *hefts golf club menacingly*''". Randall listed his mood at the time as "sick". The comic was actually the Xth comic posted on the LiveJournal account, and was included out-of-order when it was numbered as part of ''xkcd''.
# I think [[LiveJournal]] should have a brief article about the original LJ account.
# I note that on other wiki's including, for example [http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Family_(episode) Memory alpha (example)] and on Wikipedia, they often have boxes showing the 'previous'/'next' things on a list (prev/next songs to hit #1 on different music charts, or prev/next tv episodes produced vs. aired). Should we give thought to creating a short sub-list of the Order comics were actually posted on the Livejournal so you can prev/next through that list?

Thoughts? [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 22:17, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

:I added most of the LJ related "Trivia" just to get it into the wiki. I think expanding it would be nice, but I'm a bit lazy :) I did add a new category for the LJ posts, so they should be easier to find. There are still a few that do not (that I can find) appear in LJ, so I left as "undated" - but added the undated category that someone else had created. I was also considering creating a list ordered by LJ posting order on the LJ category page (to be created) to at least preserve some of the nostalgia. Is there another pre-xkcd site besides LJ that posts might have appeared in? Or are these "undated" posts possibly others that were just lumped into the "early posts" on xkcd? --[[User:Bpothier|B. P.]] ([[User talk:Bpothier|talk]]) 21:05, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

::There are three undated comics that I found (and I noted them on the "big board" of all comics at [[list of all comics]]. If no one disagrees, I will start moving sections when I have time and creating any new sections as "Background" rather than "Trivia" where the sections relate to the history or backstory of the comic itself. [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 16:04, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
:::The three undated comics do not appear on LiveJournal, just on the xkcd.com site. Given that (a) all of the comics on LJ from before 2006-1-1 are dated 2006-1-1 on xkcd, (b) all the ones after are dated with the same dates as on LJ, and (c) the three undated comics appear in the middle of the pre-2006 comics on LJ, I suspect that [[Randall]] posted them to the xkcd site first, and as part of a batch of comics he posted to bootstrap the site. So it's entirely likely that the 2006-1-1 date is accurate. [[User:Blaisepascal|Blaisepascal]] ([[User talk:Blaisepascal|talk]]) 16:18, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

I added, in the "Trivia" section, a "thread" tying all the LJ comics together, in order. In doing so, I also added the half-dozen or so LJ comics not yet added. [[User:Blaisepascal|Blaisepascal]] ([[User talk:Blaisepascal|talk]]) 16:18, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

== Programmatically Accessing Comics ==

I think there should be a way for other websites to view* explanations, (discussions?), etc programmatically.

This could be used for the [http://explainxkcd.com front page], or a website wanting to show an explanation of a comic that is always up-to-date and correct, etc.

<nowiki>*</nowiki> I wrote view, but it could also be edit.

--[[User:Grep|grep]]:[[User_talk:Grep|talk]]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=p&f=ex_grep applaud]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=c&f=ex_grep smite]

:This could be done with json responses to individual pages including the current explanation for that comic. Similar to how the xkcd json api works now. I don't know if that is feasible in php though. I'm currently on a RoR craze though, so maybe there's an easier and less over-engineered solution I don't know about. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 17:18, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
::A cheap way out would be to have PHP page access the SQL DB and yank the necessary text from there. This could be useful for a naitive mobile app. Also, this site needs a mobile version. --[[User:Grep|grep]]:[[User_talk:Grep|talk]]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=p&f=ex_grep applaud]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=c&f=ex_grep smite]

== New Edit Explanation Image/Link (Introduced 9/22/12) ==

Some initial thoughts.
*Will this be a permanent part of each comic? I would not be in favor of each comic in the archives having this disclaimer/large repetitive image as part of the explanation. Instead, can this just be part of the most recent comic?
*The other issue I have is that main page now has one direct link to editing the explanation (the thing least done by users) and none to editing discussion/adding comments (the thing most done by users). I see that the talk page is now displayed on the main page, which I think is a good thing, but I hope that someone can also get the 'add a comment' link on the main page as well.
*In the end I feel there should be links for editing the explanation and adding comments/discussion on the main page and that these links should be proportional in size to their traffic by users (re the link for adding to the discussion should be equal to or larger than the link for the explanation).
--[[User:Shine|Shine]] ([[User talk:Shine|talk]]) 14:26, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

:A few pointers about that:
:* I introduced the "edit explanation" image/link below the explanation I gave for today's comic, mainly because I felt what I had written ''was'' indeed incomplete (I was lacking an explanation for the "[has only one review]" part and for the title text). So in a way that was some sort of calling for help with the explanation. And once done I thought it was a good idea to have a highly visible "edit" link for the latest comic explanation on the main page (''"so that people seeing something they could add would feel invited to do so (wiki style). In my opinion this would be a good way to improve the quality of the user-generated explanations"'', as I said [[Talk:Main Page#Direct link to latest comic|here]]).
:* Later on, I added the "may be incorrect" notion in the banner, because I saw that people having different explanations only mentioned them in the comments, instead of editing my explanation (which after all could be wrong). So I fear there's some sort of "we don't touch what has been done" effect, where the first explanation given will be more likely to stick and not be corrected by readers who are not used to the idea that they can edit it (actually, if someone has a better explanation than the one I put, I'd be happy to see it corrected!).
:* That edit banner should not be a permanent part of each comic. My opinion is that it should stay on the latest comic's page (even when the explanation could be considered complete) until there is a new comic, in order to invite as much people as possible to share their explanation; and it should also, of course, be on the comic pages for which the explanation is considered incomplete, for instance [[51: Malaria|this]] (empty) or [[46: Secrets|that]] (partial only).
:* It would be nice indeed to have also, on the main page, a direct link to add a comment (exactly like the one on [[1098: Star Ratings|the comic page]]), but that is currently not feasible automatically. This is one of the reasons why I suggested an other way to handle the latest comic (see [[#Latest comic handling]] above), which I actually still think would be better, and in particular which would allow to do all that (including the edit banner) nicely automatically from the main page.
:[[User:Cos|Cos]] ([[User talk:Cos|talk]]) 15:20, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

==Notice templates==
I would like to suggest a template for a notice saying "this page requires copy editing," and one saying "this page may be unclear in its meaning," or something of the sort for each. the comic posted on 8/22/12 could use both of these. (unsigned comment by [[User:Dave|Dave]] 19:11, 23 August 2012‎ )

:I agree. I discussed this matter with [[User:Blaisepascal]] in respect of his template {{tl|incomplete}} on its talk page. I have updated that template to {{tl|Incomplete/beta1}} and created {{tl|ambox}} as a generic message box ''xkcd''-style where other message templates can be created and color coded like on wikipedia, such as the ones you suggest.

:Unfortunately, because of the image scaling issues, the ambox template displays two broken images at the moment which we agreed shouldn't replace the existing template until the images are unbroken. I'm not sure anyone is working on the image scaling problem, is one of the issues. In any event, I also don't see the point in creating other notice templates until the issue is fixed and we can use the standardized template. I'm really hoping someone is working on the image scaling problem... [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 16:36, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

:: I changed the template to use the {{tl|notice}} template that is already being used in several places. I'll delete {{tl|ambox}} as it's redundant, but the styling of {{tl|notice}} can be changed if such is desired. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 02:40, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

== Denoting comic "series" ==

There are several "series" of comics. Is there a better/prefered way of notating these? Currently I have been creating a "Category:Series Name", e.g. (not all of these exist yet)
* [Category:Comics featuring Barrel Boy](1-5) (Should this be just "Barrel Boy"?)
* [Category:Journal](1-5)
* [Category:The Race](1-5)
* [Category:My Hobby](random)
* [Category:1337](1-5)
* [Category:Choices](1-5)
* [Category:Parody Week](5 in this "series", but others fit the genre)
* [Category:Red Spiders](4 in this "genre", 2 explicitly numbered)
* [Category:Secretary](1-5)
* [Category:Five-Minute Comics](1-3)
* [Category: Guest Week](5 comics, but not exactly a "series").

I usually also create a REDIRECT of "Series Name" to "Category: Series Name"(breaks for "Journal", as it is also a comic title.
Should we have another meta-category for series comics? What about a [Series:Series Name] "category"? or does that break wiki? --[[User:Bpothier|B. P.]] ([[User talk:Bpothier|talk]]) 23:33, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

== Categories for Proposals Page ==

Maybe just simply two categories, resolved and unresolved? --[[User:Grep|grep]]:[[User_talk:Grep|talk]]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=p&f=ex_grep applaud]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=c&f=ex_grep smite]

Or stickers that say Open/Closed. --[[User:Grep|grep]]:[[User_talk:Grep|talk]]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=p&f=ex_grep applaud]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=c&f=ex_grep smite]

== Moving the Wiki {{done|Closed}}==

What if explainxkcd.com/wiki was move to explainxkcd.com and explainxkcd.com would be moved to explainxkcd.com/blog? --[[User:Grep|grep]]:[[User_talk:Grep|talk]]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=p&f=ex_grep applaud]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=c&f=ex_grep smite]

+1 (44)

-1 (0)

: That's my plan long term. That might make a lot of things like shortURL possible. Just have to get some time to get it sorted out. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 19:58, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
<hr />
Sorry if your votes don't appear immediately. I will have them update automatically soon. Hopefully. And if you clicked my signature wanting to +1 this page, sorry for the confusion. DanB and Lcarsos, your +1's have been added to the count. --[[User:Grep|grep]]:[[User_talk:Grep|talk]]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=p&f=ex_grep applaud]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=c&f=ex_grep smite]
:+1 from me. --[[User:DanB|DanB]] ([[User talk:DanB|talk]]) 14:36, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
:+1 as well. I keep hitting the blog when I mean to go to the wiki. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 15:00, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

== Chart type comics ==

Some comics (circuit diagram, US states,eyes sights, among others) are in a characteristic chart format- where it is all based around a chart of some kind or the other. Should we have a separate template for them, for the type of comics?

And somebody should actually create all the pages in the required format without explanations, so that other users can fill on the explanation. I can give explanations, but need somebody to make the pages first

[[User:TheOriginalSoni|TheOriginalSoni]] ([[User talk:TheOriginalSoni|talk]]) 17:05, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

:All the images have been uploaded, and a template exists at [[User:Blaisepascal/newcomictemplate]] that can be copied/pasted into a new comic page that just needs to be filled in. [[User:Lcarsos]] has written a [[User:Lcarsos#Ruby_importer_script|Ruby importer script]] that will create an almost-ready-to-upload page for you. All you need to do is fill in the explanation, proof-read, and add useful Wiki links. You don't need special privileges to create new pages.
:Personally, I find comic pages devoid of explanation counter to the intent of this site, and I try not to create them. If I put up a page, I try to make sure it has an explanation. [[User:Blaisepascal|Blaisepascal]] ([[User talk:Blaisepascal|talk]]) 18:22, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

:I agree with Blaisepascal. If a comic does not have an explanation its page should not exist so that it is easy to tell how much work there is left to be done. If suddenly all the pages are created, but none of them have explanations, a passing user won't know that there is still work to be done, and potentially won't pitch in to help complete the site.
:As far as charts go, be sure to tag them with [[:Category:Charts]] and I like to change the transcript into a wiki table format. Of course, if the page doesn't have a transcript section then be sure you get the transcript from xkcd's json api (There is information about how to work it in [[explain xkcd:Community portal/Coordination#Issue dates]], as well as my [[User:Lcarsos#Ruby Importer scipt|Ruby script]] pulls in the transcript if it exists. You're still on your own to get the explanation from the blog (I'm working on that)).
:[[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 18:57, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

== New Categories ==
(cut from Chart Type Comics section above, as seems new topic) [[User:Blaisepascal|Blaisepascal]] ([[User talk:Blaisepascal|talk]]) 00:14, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Ok. Also, add a new section for proposing templates. We can have a very varied range of templates, like 'Comics with Black Hat', 'Comics with Raptor reference' etc... That will provide a useful ground for comparision of the most common themes [[User:TheOriginalSoni|TheOriginalSoni]] ([[User talk:TheOriginalSoni|talk]]) 16:44, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
:From context, I assume that by "templates", you mean "categories"? [[User:Blaisepascal|Blaisepascal]] ([[User talk:Blaisepascal|talk]]) 18:00, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

:I think you'd benefit from taking a gander at [[:Category:Comics by featured characters]] and [[:Category:Comics by topic]]. I think we're still debating what to do about comics with actual people in them. But that will get you a good start. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 21:55, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

:: I'd be okay with creating a [[:Category:Comics featuring real people]] and including sub-categories for Cory Doctorow, the Firefly cast, RMS, Ron Paul, and other recurring real-life people.
:: But then, my general philosophy is more links, more pages, more explanation the better. One-shot fictional characters (like ponytail-Sarah in [[84: National Language]]) probably don't need their own category/page, though.[[User:Blaisepascal|Blaisepascal]] ([[User talk:Blaisepascal|talk]]) 02:06, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

:::I really like that idea. I too am of the more categories tribe, but I prefer them to be properly nested. I want to try my hand at creating categories let me see if I can do this. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 00:54, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

::::Okay, the beginnings are in place. Though I used [[:Category:Comics featuring real people]] as most comics that reference these people, in fact, feature them. I've also created a [[Playpen balls]] category under [[:Category:Comics by topic]] as it seems to me that it's referenced enough that it's necessary.

::::Question: Should we mirror Featured Characters by also having a page for each character and a Category:Real people, or will the Category pages be good enough?

::::The categories are going to get/are getting crowded with all the categories, is there a better way to represent them rather than a list? I'm thinking something that looks like [[:Template:navbox-characters]] except it needs to maintain the link on highlighted items, and it needs to be capable of multiple highlights. I think it would need sections for Featured Characters, Real people, Series (Barrel boy, Secretary, The Race), and Recurring Topics. What I mean by multiple highlights is, if they exist in that comic, i.e. if a comic features Black Hat, Cueball, Cory Doctorow, and Playpen balls, all of those should be highlighted.

::::[[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 02:37, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

It looks like a good time to resurrect this topic. So, If you are going to categorize pages into a category that doesn't exist yet. MAKE SURE that you create the category page, don't just let it be a red link. That looks so sloppy. While on the subject of sloppy, Alphabetize by type the categories on the comic page. I go: Main characters, minor characters, real people, topics, series.

My personal requirements for making a category:
*For new topics
**For new topics, must be the central topic of ''at least'' two comics, with a few more tangentially related.
**It should be something that someone reads and goes "I wonder if there are more comics about this?" It is not simply creating a tag cloud for a post on a blog. That metaphor is gone. These are categories, like sections in an index to a book, or rather an ''encyclopedia''.
**A perfect example of this is [[User:Bpothier|Bpothier]]'s introduction of [[:Category:Comics with color]]. I've often wanted a list of all xkcds to date that have color on them. You'll know you've hit on something when another editor starts going through the pages and adding them to the new category.
*For new recurring characters
**They must recur. This seems obvious, but Adrian Lamo (for example, {{Wiktionary|AFAIK}}), only appears in [[1337: Part 3]]. This is a useless category if there are no other comics he appears in. It only goes to clutter up other, well populated categories.
*For other new categories
**You better have a damn solid case for why you have added a category that wasn't a sub-category of [[:Category:Comics by topic]] or [[:Category:Comic series]]. ''And if you do'', '''be polite''' and present it on the community portal so that the circling editors don't come in like brain-dead vultures to tear apart and re-parent your new category.

It is brain dead easy to create a page (spam bots do it all the time). It is much more complicated to get a page deleted by an admin once it has been created. You can tag it [[:Category:Pages to delete]], but non-spam pages marked this aren't often cleaned out. What I'm trying to say here is, be judicious in picking the names of pages you want to create. It's a pain to have to move Comics featuring Barrel Boy into a [[Barrel]] category.

Also, categorizing a page as something because of the explanation is not ok. These categories are here to group comics together, not as a general tag cloud for the wiki.

'''TL;DR:''' When creating a new category, create the goddamn category page (red links icky) and have ''at least'' 2 pages in the category. For big changes come here and ask first. [http://dontbeadickday.com/ Wil Wheaton says: "Don't be a dick!"]

Questions, comments, improvements, pies to the face accepted. Being-non-useful/criticism-with-intent-to-destroy is rude.

[[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 21:28, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

:No, Lcarsos, don't hold back; please tell us what you really think! ;-) All kidding aside, these suggestions seem really pretty good. There may be some subjectivity in terms of what constitutes contributing to a tag cloud vs the categorization you mention here. But as you point out, that understanding is likely to evolve: if one creates a category that somebody else runs with it, that's a pretty good indicator. I'm glad this categorization has been going on as it has; were it not for my ''de facto'' role as ''Grim Spammer-Reaper'' I'd be in there helping sort and categorize 'em all, too. So huge thanks! -- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 05:45, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

::Just to clarify, I assume what you mean by "''Alphabetize by type the categories on the comic page. I go: Main characters, minor characters, real people, topics, series.''" is that one should ''group'' categories by type, and then alphabetize within them? If that's the case, I don't see any major issue with that; that said, I tend to add categories by deemed 'importance', i.e. I would add comics featuring Cueball before comics featuring Black Hat or Beret Guy just because Cueball is the central character in the series. Similarly, I would also reorder so that "series" comes before topic, if not before characters as well. The first category a "My Hobby" comic comes into, in my mind, is the "My Hobby" category. Only then is it a comic that happens to feature Cueball, or happens to be on the topic of computers. That's my personal view of it. The only reason I would keep characters first is because it's the most common category type a comic will fall into. [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 14:26, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

== Characters appearing only by name. ==

I've noticed that in several comics, known and named characters appear by name only without any physical appearance. Off the top of my head, I can think of Miss Lenhart (who actually appears twice by name before making her first real appearance: http://xkcd.com/135/ and in http://xkcd.com/416/) and Rob in comic 1102. I think these should be included as appearances, or under some other related but separate category, because they do provide character development. Thoughts on this? [[User:AWiseGuy|AWiseGuy]] ([[User talk:AWiseGuy|talk]]) 19:51, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

:I consider references to be apperances. Anyone interested in reading all comics relating to that character or looking for a specific comic featuring that character might be remmebering one where it was a mention by name, not by apperance, and they should be included in the categories for ease of reference, IMO. [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 20:13, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

There's also Cory Doctorow, and I personally would like to know more about him. I came to explainxkcd to find out who he is, and he's not even mentioned. So he should be added to this list of characters by name.{{unsigned|‎205.189.255.122}}

== Also explain cartoons from the XKCD book? ==

Hi!
As many of you surely know, many comics from the main site were featured in the book xkcd: volume 0. Some of them where altered or had extra explanations. Moreover, there where quite a few riddles and new comics in the book, which should be explained here, too. The forums did a great job on solving the great big riddles which lead to the legendary "official" XKCD-meetup with Randall. --[[Special:Contributions/137.193.213.160|137.193.213.160]] 09:37, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
:Oops, for got to log in, this suggestion came from me: [[User:Gefrierbrand|Gefrierbrand]] ([[User talk:Gefrierbrand|talk]]) 09:48, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

== Just add 'explain' before the 'xkcd.com' ==

You know how you there are services like [http://www.youtuberepeat.com YouTube Repeat] which let you go to the corresponding part of their site by just adding `repeat` before the `.com` of the YouTube video URL?

Likewise, let us just add `explain` before the `xkcd.com` part in any comic URL and let it redirect us to the appropriate wiki post. For example: `explainxkcd.com/1000` would redirect to `http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1000`. I think since the site is based on PHP, it'd be very easy to just send a 301 Redirect header along.

This will be of immense comfort and will probably see me and others using ExplainXKCD.com a lot mre ! Happy reading :)

{{unsigned|YatharthROCK|15:17, 16 September 2012}}

:In a way, that's the plan... per [[#Moving the Wiki ✓ Closed|#Moving the Wiki]] above, the `/wiki` part would disappear, and with shortURL at the same time (mentioned there and at other places as well), the `index.php?title=` would disappear as well. Therefore, explainxkcd.com/1000 would get you the [[1000]] page, which itself redirects to the explanation of the comic ([[1000: 1000 Comics]]). So I guess the only issue is: when will this be done?... - [[User:Cos|Cos]] ([[User talk:Cos|talk]]) 10:38, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
:: I'd LOVE this working. I've worked on this a bunch and only succeeded in bricking the site. If anyone has any advice, I'd love the help. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 18:04, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

:::I don't think that there is a wiki way to do this, as I've never set up mediawiki before (I should get around to it though). But from 10,000 feet it appears to me that all of the wiki software lives inside a /wiki/ directory on the server, and the blog lives in the root directory. Currently, all of mediawiki's pages are being generated by being passed GET variables, and all of WordPress' pages are being generated by its use of mod_rewrite (why the difference, I don't know. I've never set up mediawiki, and thus never had to try to get mod_rewrite working for it). This is a problem, because any url sent to the server such as explainxkcd.com/1000 is causing the server to look for a directory named 1000, and when it doesn't find it, it invokes mod_rewrite and passes 1000 to the index.php of the root directory as a search term, which activates WordPress which searches for any entries dated in the year 1000 (Wordpress treats the first "directory" as the year), naturally none exist so WordPress generates a 404 error.

:::While the blog exists, I think the only way to do this would be to write a .htaccess that conditionally reroutes directory misses to /wiki/ so something like explainxkcd.com/1000 would be sent to explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1000 but explainxkcd.com/2012/04 would still be sent to WordPress to find entries posted in April 2012.

:::As soon as we can get rid of the blog (which is not yet, because there are a lot of explanations still there that haven't been migrated over) the logic that has to be in the .htaccess becomes much simpler. Anything gets redirected to explainxkcd.com/wiki/. I say anything, and I mean anything because URI requests for anything under explainxkcd.com/wiki/ apache will find the /wiki/ directory and pass everything into there (mod_rewrite or as it currently is) and anything not matchin the /wiki/ directory can be 302'd into /wiki/ for the wiki to find it.

:::I hope that makes sense. If that's too long, let me sum up. '''TL;DR:''' Not very feasible until all explanations in the blog are in the wiki and we can get rid of WordPress.

:::--[[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 18:52, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
::: Yup - I certainly would be using htaccess file and that's the approach that has NOT worked in the past. It is possible it needs some tweaking so that it works for the wiki. I'm not sure. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 19:09, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
:::: What if you had a script to make a redirect file to the wiki with that comic. So it would make a file 1, 2, ..., 473, ..., etc. Each file (eg 1111) would redirect to /wiki/index.php?title=1111. Then when a better solution is invented, a simple regex ([0-9]+\.php or [0-9]+\.html) would remove all the unnecessary files. --[[User:Grep|grep]]:[[User_talk:Grep|talk]] 15:04, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi, joining the conversation: Could we perhaps also ask the original administrator of explainxkcd to redirect the address of his site here? It'll be easier to get here and it might generate more traffic as well. --[[User:Castriff|Jimmy C]] ([[User talk:Castriff|talk]]) 01:48, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

:The person you would want to talk about that is Jeff. The very same Jeff that started, and is bureaucrat of this wiki. So, read the conversation that happened above, and you'll see some of the technical reasons why this hasn't happened yet. And again, I ask that you please comment in chronological order, and that you don't add your comment in a place that it disrupts all of the nested conversation that's already happened. There was an entire comment thread that you put your new comment in the middle of. It was hard to tell if you wanted to reply to this section's OP or anyone else in that thread. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]]_a ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 08:22, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

== News Links ==
Certain pages have custom news links.
Many use the generic news link, which these days refers to what-if.xkcd.com.
Template "comic" should probably explcitly support and display custom news.
(An effort should be made at times to scan for updated news.)
--[[User:Divad27182|Divad27182]] ([[User talk:Divad27182|talk]]) 16:01, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
: And, of course, there should be a category for anything with custom news. --[[User:Divad27182|Divad27182]] ([[User talk:Divad27182|talk]]) 16:05, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

== New List requests ==

List of comics related to cancer -
(Umwelt, 818,828,836,925,931,933)

[Keep on adding new requests below this]
[[User:TheOriginalSoni|TheOriginalSoni]] ([[User talk:TheOriginalSoni|talk]]) 18:24, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
: Good suggestion. One observation... this is essentially a democratic institution, so feel free to put the catagory tags on each of these pages and get those editorial props due to you for recommending the category. I'm guessing <nowiki>[[Category:Cancer]]</nowiki> should be a good start. -- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 23:06, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

== Disambiguation ==

Ok, I think we need to start considering disambiguation pages.

Off the top of my head there's
*[[17: What If]] and [[what if?]]
*[[786: Exoplanets]] and [[1071: Exoplanets]]

If you search "what if" the redirect takes you to the [[17: What If]]. I've added a note to that page that links to [[what if?]].

[[Exoplanets]] (the title redirect) is an informal disambiguation page. But, neither comic links to the other one in case someone clicks links and gets to the wrong page.

In terms of notes on pages that there is a disambiguation page that they might be looking for, I think that the note should be made under the comic template so that people clicking the next/previous links don't have to move their cursor (I find nothing more infuriating than having a next/previous link move around as I'm browsing a website).

Anyone else? Thoughts? [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 15:42, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

== RSS Feed ==

We need a new RSS feed so people using news readers can easily be notified of new comics. {{unsigned|67.186.234.12}}

:First and foremost, a disambiguation: '''We are not xkcd'''. We are a group of people who love xkcd and sometimes a joke goes over our head, and we'd go into fits of OCD rage if we don't understand every joke in xkcd.

:If you want to read xkcd, subscribe to the RSS feed that [[Randall]] provides. [http://xkcd.com/rss.xml here's a link] A new xkcd is posted at midnight eastern (US East coast) of every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.

:We are just here for the explanation, which is community based. It takes quite a few edits from many people before an explanation is really explained-to-death and every joke found and beaten with a club to extract maximum joke-explanation value. But there's usually a fairly substantial effort at an explanation by noon eastern. That's about the best we can offer you.

:--[[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 06:19, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

== Comic Difficulty score ==

We should add a difficulty score to each page. Each XKCD comic could be awarded a score based on the number of people that have to visit explainxkcd.com on the day a comic is posted and a couple days after. Inspired by comic: http://www.xkcd.com/1137/

Jim

:That is a cool idea! --[[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 22:06, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

== Contributions and revert buttons ==

The main vandalism comes from IP adresses, and one IP may attack more than one page when it logs on. So its best to have a contributions link show up beside user page and talk page for every page history and signature; and wherever else it is used that way.

Also a quick way to deal with vandalism is to have two buttons on the show history page-
1. Revert this edit [undo] (for all, including IP users, not just normal users)
2. Revert to this edit (Just beside every edit on the edit history)

These two buttons (links, whatever u call them) will make it much more efficient for vandal-reverters to tackle them down.

[[User:TheOriginalSoni|TheOriginalSoni]] ([[User talk:TheOriginalSoni|talk]]) 20:08, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Oh and an easy template to keep tagging vandals, and vandalism affected articles, as well as a quick way to say that whatever we are doing is editing vandalism. I truly would not want to press any more than 4 buttons/clicks ideally on one page when I am trying to revert edits.

The tagging vandals and vandalism affected pages will help admins keep fast track of whos the worst vandal and block that range of IPs from editing (except to submit edit request to admins) and which are worst affected pages (to protect them) [[User:TheOriginalSoni|TheOriginalSoni]] ([[User talk:TheOriginalSoni|talk]]) 20:15, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

== Subsection for title text explanation ==

Hey! On trial I created subsections for some longer explanations of the title text on some pages, like this: [[804: Pumpkin Carving#Explanation]]. Do you think that is helpful? – [[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 22:22, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
:Good idea. In some cases it might be the best choice. I just did that on [[1074: Moon Landing]] too :) --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 19:01, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

:Making a special sub-section for the title text only makes sense for large explanations. Explanations that are maybe only 2-3 scrappy paragraphs, and then an explanation of the title text, is not so dense that it is hard to find it. I like this as an idea, but I think that only the really large explanations should have the subsection. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]]_a ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 16:34, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

== Whatever Happened to the Template? & Transcript Redirect ==

I've been using the template whenever I make a new page for an explanation, but I think it's been gone for a couple of weeks now. Does anyone think they could possibly resurrect it? I'm just here to explain, I'm really not a pro with the technical details, so please bear with me.

Also, I got to thinking: In the List of All Comics, there are redirects for the Number, the Title, and the Talk pages, but has anyone thought about making a redirect for the transcript? I'm pushing for transcript help in a bunch of different areas mostly because I think people have been filling it in themselves without going to the site.
--[[User:Castriff|Jimmy C]] ([[User talk:Castriff|talk]]) 02:07, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

== Add unexplained strips ==
At the moment, browsing through the explanations using the previous and next buttons is interrupted whenever there's an explanation missing.

I think adding a page with the strip fr all of those with a short message like "no one has explained this yet, want to give it a shot?" would make the wiki easier to browse through and will get more strips explained faster.

:I don't think that would happen. If suddenly it was much easier for people to skip over pages that had no explanation, I think they would do exactly that, skip right over it. On the same side of that coin, If suddenly there are no longer any red links on the [[List of all comics]] then everyone perusing that page assumes that all the comics have been explained and don't need to contribute any more. It's astonishing how quickly an [[589: Designated Drivers|embedded]] red link gets an explanation page created simply to get rid of the red link.

:Secondarily, ''many'' of the pages created recently aren't being created with their numerical and titular redirects. Without the numerical redirect, the comic template can't find that there is a previous/next comic to link to. Every once in a while somebody will go through and try to notice all the pages that don't have their redirects created but it's an unscientific process that only happens occasionally. If we could get every joe blow that comes in and vomits up a poorly done explanation to create the redirects I wouldn't be quite as annoyed at their lack of show-don't-tell-manship. But, since they can't be bothered to put the date in the comic template, I doubt we'll ever get people to create the redirects.

:'''TL;DR:''' No more red links, no more work gets done on the back catalog.

:--[[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]]_a ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 14:28, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

== xplainkcd.com ==

When I first saw this site I thought it should definitely be at xplainkcd.com or at least redirect from that url {{unsigned|115.166.22.158|12:45, 3 January 2013 (UTC)}}

: I like that idea! --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 13:28, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

:Yeah! If it's possible, it would be cool! At least as a redirect. -- [[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 15:46, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

:Not technically the same thing, but I just took [http://expxkcd.com http://expxkcd.com]. More explanation <del>is</del> was given on the website itself. {{User:Grep/signature|05:10, 29 March 2014}}
::We do that with explainxkcd.com as well, but yay shorter URLs! Mind if I use that for our social media links? '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 06:45, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
:::I had no idea that you did that, but sure, go ahead! If you want, I can change any DNS records if you wish to have it go directly to you guys. {{User:Grep/signature|07:16, 29 March 2014}}
:::In case you were wondering, I just did the following: <code>^/([0-9]+)(/large)?/?$</code> {{User:Grep/signature|07:25, 29 March 2014}}
::::Hrm. We're just matching with <code>^(\d+)/?$</code>. You can keep ownership of the URL if you want, unless you have traffic concerns or whatever and you want us to handle it, which we're very capable of doing. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 08:47, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

I have made http://www.xkcd.ga and http://www.xkcd.tk both forward to http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page. Is this ok? [[User:17jiangz1|17jiangz1]] ([[User talk:17jiangz1|talk]]) 08:49, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

== Section style and usage ==

I am new here and I'm trying to get up to speed with the culture. I have a few questions about how and where to use sections (== this ==). I am more willing to go with (and enforce) whatever norms there are here, but I have not seen them actually discussed.

# '''Is it OK to create sections in Discussion pages?''' I have been told no, but there are many examples extant of this usage in this Wiki and indeed in Wikipedia.
# '''Section title case''' [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Capital_letters#Acronyms Wikipedia's style guide] recommends sentence case, not title case. There are many title cased section headers here.
# '''Links''' I do not have a reference for this but it seems to me putting links in section code (== [[<nowiki>this</nowiki>]] == ) is bad form.

Last note -- it's understood if these bylaws have not yet been written. I can see that a few of you have made a huge personal investment to make this Wiki what it is today, and that is a credit to you all -- this is awesome! As a long-time aficionado of xkcd I applaud your work and look forward to further collaboration.
--[[User:Smartin|Smartin]] ([[User talk:Smartin|talk]]) 04:15, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

:As a general rule, we stick to the standard format that existing pages follow, with an optional trivia section below the transcript. Some zealous editors like to add other sections though, which tend to be for the most part unneeded or redundant. If something you want to add doesn't help to explain the comic in some way, but the inclusion of which would somehow still add to the page, *and* it doesn't fall under the trivia category, a new section is warranted. This isn't the case most of the time though, so editors usually fold the content of extraneous sections into "Explanation" or "Trivia." We have no policy on links in titles, and they're allowed so long as they are appropriate; the link is useful and can't be folded into the section itself. And we use title case for titles cuz it just makes sense. '''[[User:Davidy22|Davidy22]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 05:08, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

:We generally do not (or at least, discourage) use sections on the talk/discussion pages for explanation pages. This is purely for looks. The comic discussion section of the explanation page looks/feels wrong if there are level 2 section breaks in the transclusion. Also, if the [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Table_of_contents Table of Contents] starts showing up on a page, such as on [[Click and Drag]] the sections created on the talk page also show up in the TOC. This gets confusing, and this is why we prefer not to use them on explanation talk pages. Everywhere else we follow standard wiki format and do use sections on the discussion pages.

:Personally, I think that links in section titles looks wrong, but I choose not to be the dictator of style in this matter. :p

:Please feel free to make edits. The worst that happens is someone reverts your edit. If it's a big enough issue and/or you don't seem to be learning from what people are fixing about your edits someone will leave a comment on your talk page. That's it. We might leave a nasty-gram in the edit summary, but oh well. We only ban for malicious intent. Honestly working to better the wiki is good, even if sometimes we grumble about it.

:--[[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]]_a ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 07:00, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

::Oh, I just looked at your talk page. I completely forgot that that happened. Don't worry about it. Learning the ropes is part of the experience. Do make edits, and if they're wrong, we'll nudge you in the right direction. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]]_a ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 07:18, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

I have been moving some trivia sections to directly below the explanation, in order to make it more consistent, and easier to survey and maintain. Often the dividing line between trivia and explanation is not entirely clear, and in articles without a trivia section the end of the explanation very often contains trivia-like information. (e.g. [[1155: Kolmogorov Directions]]) -- [[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 10:13, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
===Title case doesn't make any sense===
At first sight title case in titles just makes sense. However title case '''never''' makes sense. It's worse than all caps. Besides, only Americans and children like title case. [[Special:Contributions/190.96.48.48|190.96.48.48]] 20:04, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

==New character==
As per [[Talk:1178: Pickup Artists]], the character with hair has appeared in quite a few comics now, and he's starting to become a recurring character. Shall we go ahead with inaugurating him into our list of regular characters, and what name shall we assign him? Current candidate names include Hairy and Harry. Anyone? '''[[User:Davidy22|Davidy²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 00:07, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

: I like Harry :) --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 01:04, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
::Cos made a point in the discussion on [[Talk:1178: Pickup Artists]] that Hairy is directly descriptive, whereas Harry is not obvious to visitors. On the other hand, not all names are descriptive ([[Danish]]) and I think this wiki is entitled to create some xkcd-in-culture, and not just describe. And Harry is quite funny.
::I wonder: has [[Randall]] ever called him anything at all in the transcript? –[[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 21:52, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
:::Well, he's not named in a any official transcripts, but he's already called Harry in quite a few comic explanations. Then again, I do like having a more descriptive name for him. Shall we hold this up to a vote? '''[[User:Davidy22|Davidy²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 23:29, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
::::I think we should wait a little for a few more viewpoints to crop up. Also, can someone link to some more comics he's been featured in? I've got [[1028: Communication]], [[1027: Pickup Artist]] and [[1178: Pickup Artists]]. –[[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 23:41, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
:::::I actually like what that anon said: ''Curly''. Second choice: Hairy (being descriptive, a la Black Hat, Beret, Cueball, etc.) While there's talk about in-culture, we've done that with the names Cueball, Beret, etc. It's my opinion that the only names that should be "real" proper names are those that are named in the comic. Megan, Miss Lenhart, etc. Danish (as is discussed below) isn't truly a proper name, but you could argue it's a meta-description (one attributed by Black hat.) So that's my vote: yes for '''Curly''' or '''Hairy''', no for Harry. [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 05:21, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
:::That's right, [[Danish]] is not descriptive, but 1/ that name was suggested because the character [[515: No One Must Know|was called that way in the comic]], which is a tiny bit like a name given by the author (at least more than Harry which we have completely made up), and 2/ in that case it's hard to find a descriptive term: use something that revolves around her black hair (her only descriptive feature), and you easily mix up with [[Megan]]; the only graphical difference is that her hair is ''long'', but what kind of name can you make out of that?
:::For this new character, I suggest Hairy because it comes as the easy solution with every advantage: descriptive, easy to understand, and it's not ugly... I actually see no reason to resort to a made-up name like Harry.
:::[[User:Cos|Cos]] ([[User talk:Cos|talk]]) 22:29, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

: '''Alright. So the discussion's been had, and the most oft recommended name appears to be Hairy. All in favor, say aye. If more than 1/3 of editors agree and we have more than 6 votes, Hairy it is.''' '''[[User:Davidy22|Davidy²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 05:58, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
:# '''Aye''' '''[[User:Davidy22|Davidy²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 05:58, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
:# '''Aye''' [[User:Guru-45|Guru-45]] ([[User talk:Guru-45|talk]]) 06:14, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
:# '''Aye''' to Hairy. [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 15:43, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
:# '''Aye'''. Harry would be a nice nod to the fact that he's actually hairy, but indeed it's better to avoid inside jokes. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 17:05, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
:# '''Aye'''. I'm convinced! –[[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 17:52, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
:# '''Aye'''. Hairy. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]]_a ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 20:52, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
::Hooray! We now have a [[:Category:Comics featuring Hairy]], with four pages already! Does anyone feel compelled to create "[[Hairy]]", with a brief description and a nice profile pic like the other characters? –[[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 22:58, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

== Ambiguous characters ==

I've been thinking about the problem of the ambiguity of characters. "Is this really Cueball even though he has an eye and half a nose?", "This is very likely ''not'' x." "Darnit, these arn't Cueballs, these are Randall and his friends!", and so on. The character ambiguity is standard for xkcd (not less so in the early ones), and comes from the very loose or "free" way Randall uses his characters to be whatever he needs at the moment. It's simply often impossible for us to know whether he had e.g. "Cueball" or himself in mind, when drawing a particular comic (and I'd say: probably often both).

I want to suggest that we in general have a likewise rather loose policy towards including characters in the categories for the comics. So that reasonably ambiguous cases should be included in e.g. (does she have a ponytail?) This is not because I believe this or that to really be this or that; I just don't believe in objective truth (here!). I feel that when doing research :) on a character, the borderline cases are often the most interesting ones, and you want to be able to find them through the "Comics featuring miss x"!

I came to think this through now, when I wanted to (and did) list two comics with [[Miss Lenhart]] (?) where she was drawn but not named. Any thoughts on this in general? Other case studies? –[[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 21:17, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
:My take has always been that [[Cueball]], for example, has not been a specific character. There is not ''a'' cueball, per se, distinct from any other cueball... indeed, there are several comics with several cueballs in-frame, and that is the point. I see the cueball character as a wildcard character (pun intended) ready to stand in for anybody (and ''not'' necessarily just Randall; I think those readers who suggest "this ''is'' Randall" are missing the point; he's way more META than that...) [[Megan]], while slightly less generic, still remains the female wild-card significant-other, while Curls seems to be a not-significant-other female used to illustrate a relationship that is transient. Other characters come and go, and when it's important to visually distinguish them from others in the frame, they're given additional characteristics, to wit [[Hairy]], [[Ponytail]], etc.
:Unfortunately, that viewpoint is not commonly held, so I daresay I'm in the minority here.
:-- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 14:18, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

== Note at the top, about the server error ==

:''This thread was moved to [[MediaWiki talk:Sitenotice]]''

== I've removed "add a comment!" from Discussion heading ==

This does move it to above the line, and the rule stops early. Undo my change if that's more bothering than when the TOC is displayed as "add a comment!Discussion"...

I don't know how to automatically treat level 2 headers as level 3. That may be why Discussion was a level 1 heading earlier.
[[User:Markhurd|Mark Hurd]] ([[User talk:Markhurd|talk]]) 11:16, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
:Actually I now noticed there was a short edit war at {{tl|comic discussion}} over whether it should be a level 1 heading, just for this reason. [[User:Waldir]] seems to have conceeded... [[User:Markhurd|Mark Hurd]] ([[User talk:Markhurd|talk]]) 11:25, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

:: No edit war, hence no (intentional) concession. I reverted a change once, and didn't notice the change being re-implemented by another user. In any case, it is irrelevant now since we actively discourage using headers in talk pages precisely so that they don't display in the TOC for the main comic page, where the discussion page is transcluded to (see the discussion [[#Section style and usage|above]]). This might not scale well for comics that generate lots of discussion. It might be worth discussing our customs (and perhaps write them down somewhere) before performing such changes. What do others think? --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 11:49, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

== Time: The Table ==

Right now on the page [[1190: Time]], we have a whole bunch of tables in the form image-time-hash. The tables take up heaps of vertical space and all have to be collapsed to even be remotely traversible. I propose that we aggregate all the images into one table after Time ends, like so:

{| class="wikitable plainlinks table-padding"
|-
!Image
!Time
!Image
!Time
!Image
!Time
!Image
!Time
|-
|[[Media:time.png|00:00]]||01/00:00||[[Media:time.png|10:00]]||01/10:00||[[Media:time.png|20:00]]||01/20:00||[[Media:time.png|30:00]]||AND MOAR SAMPLE DATAS
|-
|[[Media:time.png|00:30]]||01/00:30||[[Media:time.png|10:30]]||01/10:30||[[Media:time.png|20:30]]||01/20:30||[[Media:time.png|30:30]]||AND MOAR SAMPLE DATAS
|}

The hash values aren't really a part of the comic, they're gibberish for the most part and they take up space that could be used to compact the table, as shown above. Even if we are conservative and make the table only five columns wide to account for smaller screens, we've divided scrolling time by five and eliminated much of the need for annoying collapsed tables and section headers for each day. Constructing the table shouldn't be particularly hard either, as all our current data is in nice regular tables with clear patterns that are easy enough to parse through.

I'm putting this here because the organization of the frame entries would be unintuitive and difficult to change from the edit window, which would make it a poor choice when we're still expanding it and don't even know how long the comic will continue for. It's merely a space-saving trick for after we're sure that the comic is over. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 09:26, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

:Oh and it'd be really nice if other people could also upload images if you're awake and a new one rolls by. There's gaps in the image record every time I wake up, and I dun likey. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 11:34, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
:Good work so far; go ahead make it better! :) –[[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 08:34, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

==Featured Explanation, and Archival?==

* Wikipedia has featured content. Now that we are close to reaching the goal of all comics explained, I think it makes more sense to have a "featured explanation" which would serve as a sort of a marker for a complete and good explanation. Many comics, and almost all charts are not fully explained/not a good quality explanation.

* We should set up archival of discussion of the most discussed pages, like this one. Its not very pleasing to see comments from July 2012 still lying around here. It becomes hectic at some point.

Just my 2 cents, feel free to discuss. Cheers,
[[Special:Contributions/117.194.88.180|117.194.88.180]] 13:36, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

:We dedicate this wiki to explaining xkcd, and we do actually have a featured comic feature; it changes every week on Monday, Wednesday and Friday, and we usually manage to fill out the explanation for it within an hour or so of it going up. The most recent comic tends to be the one that most people visiting the wiki care about, so we give it prime space on the front page so they can find it easily. xkcd updates frequently enough that there isn't really that big of a time window for us to feature an article on our front page. Also, we're a volunteer project with quite a bit less manpower than Wikipedia.
:We do need to archive talk pages though. Some of these are getting ridiculously long. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 14:04, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
::I agree with Davidy22. Archiving topics can be done by anyone, by moving resolved threads to the portal section's corresponding [[explain xkcd talk:Community portal/Proposals|talk page]]. We could start with the threads marked "✓ Closed". [[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 17:42, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

:: The reason I asked for a "featured explanation" was because many of the comic explanations we currently have are sub-par, and we're almost at our initial goal of explaining all comics. A "featured explanation" would drive our editors towards the goal of having complete and good explanation towards all comics, and would allow us to know which explanations need elaboration.
:: P.S. My definition of complete explanation would be - To have a good explanation, To have all categories relevant, To link to any comics related and To explain any technical portions of the comic.
:: [[Special:Contributions/117.194.82.49|117.194.82.49]] 07:45, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
:::That message on the front page is going to link to all the pages marked by the incomplete template. If you find an unsatisfactory explanation, please mark it with <nowiki>{{incomplete}}</nowiki> '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 07:54, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
:::: By my definition, I think all comics will be incomplete. An incomplete template will be focused more towards improving the worst explanations, while a featured one will be to improve the best ones. Since we already have the former, we should focus on the latter. Just my 2 cents. [[Special:Contributions/117.194.85.82|117.194.85.82]] 06:55, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

== Split the list of all comics ==

[[List of all comics]] is getting larger and larger, which makes it hard to read and hard to edit. How about splitting into parts, say [[List of all comics/1-1000]], [[List of all comics/1001-2000]], etc., or something to that effect? --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 17:39, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

: Done. [[Special:Contributions/117.194.88.176|117.194.88.176]] 10:03, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
::Great job, thanks! [[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 11:09, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
:::And I've added back [[List of all comics (full)]], which allows, for example, listing all comics by alphabetical order.[[User:Markhurd|Mark Hurd]] ([[User talk:Markhurd|talk]]) 17:29, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

== Sidebar ads ==

''Moved from [[Talk:Main Page]] –– [[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 08:06, 4 May 2013 (UTC)''

Are they generating significant money? The ones I see are pretty sleazy looking and/or scammy - "Power Companies Hate this Device! - click here to break the laws of thermodynamics!" and "Debt relief program click here to lose more money". How much money are they generating? Can you set any selections to remove the sleazy ads? [[User:J-beda|J-beda]] ([[User talk:J-beda|talk]]) 18:30, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
:Do we have sleazy sidebar ads? Since when? Thanks Google Chrome and AdBlock, I had no idea! –[[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 07:47, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
::People give 20$ a pop to get a bunch of clicks on explainxkcd, and Jeff uses that money to buy a faster server with a hard drive that doesn't have less space than a public toilet with an elephant in it. It'd be really nice if you didn't turn on adblock, the money is appreciated. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 08:47, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
:::It's a question of me not turning it off specifically every time I visit this site. More importantly, I do think people would be more likely to click the "donate" if it weren't irrelevant ads around it. –[[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 19:29, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
:::Generating money is a great thing. Getting "20$ a pop to get a bunch of clicks" is a bit unclear. Do the ads only generate revenue when clicked on? So EXKCD only gets money when someone actually falls for the sleazy ads? I know lots of people do not like Google - but at least their adsense stuff is relevant to the content of the website, which might generate some legitimate traffic for a legitimate advertiser.... [[User:J-beda|J-beda]] ([[User talk:J-beda|talk]]) 11:48, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
::::Welllll, I didn't pick the ad supplier. You could bring it up with [[User talk:Jeff|Jeff]] if you want, I think he picked the ad provider on basis of which one had a mediawiki plugin or something. If you can link Jeff to a quick and easy way to put adsense on mediawiki, he should change it quickly enough. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 14:21, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
:::::And I also gather then that they are only a temporary thing? -- [[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 08:27, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
::::::Until we can buy a server that doesn't poop itself every time a new comic is released, the ads are staying. If you want them to go away sooner, throw more money at Jeff. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 09:25, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
::::::: The ads are crap. For sure. Wish I didn't have to run them, but I don't trust donations alone to hold up continually some better hosting. The ads really don't bring in that much $$$. I had google adsense before, but Google shutdown my adsense account for unnamed reason after 1 week. This new ad service is way sketchier. If you all think they don't have a place here, I'll ax 'em. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 16:02, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
::::::: Thanks for the info Jeff. How much ad money are we talking about? Is it calculated on how many ads are displayed or how many are clicked-through? How close to the goal is the server fund? How about a Kickstarter campaign for the server? $10 gets your name on a thankyou webpage or something like that. [[User:J-beda|J-beda]] ([[User talk:J-beda|talk]]) 17:32, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
:::::::: It ain't much, last I looked it was $2 or $3 in 2 weeks. I believe it is based on clicks, it is not nearly as clear as Google adsense. I'm not really interested in doing a Kickstarter. I think the donations will cover the initial start up, I just want to be able to cover the monthly costs as well. A few things are still up in the air. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 16:24, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
:::::::::Can you find a way to show the donations and ad income on the site, to make it transparent? ––[[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 15:30, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
::::::::: How about a donation amount that you'll take to turn it (the annoying unethical scummy ads) off for a year? Give me a dollar value and I might step up for the good of us all! [[User:J-beda|J-beda]] ([[User talk:J-beda|talk]]) 16:28, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
Since Project wonderful shut down, I block ads even on explainxkcd. The adds are simple and not colourful, which I like, but being part of Google Adsense I block them for keeping my my privacy. I am sad to do this but until there is another, better way to serve them, I have to.

== Economic transparency ==

I think this is very important: How can we make the donations and ad-income transparent, so that we all can see when and how much money is coming in, and how far we are from reaching our goal? – [[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 00:35, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
: Sounds fine to me, I think I can put something together. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 15:52, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
::Hi, may I bump this issue? Or maybe you have done something, and I missed it? Anyway, I would still appreciate it! –[[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 17:43, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
:::Numberssss. I'll get on with it, just need less homework and a few more numbers. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 07:54, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

I would like to respectfully file a complain. I find the banner advertisement of background checks distasteful. [[User:Benjaminikuta|Benjaminikuta]] ([[User talk:Benjaminikuta|talk]]) 05:10, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
: Hey [[User:Benjaminikuta|Benjaminikuta]] - I am the one who approved those ads. But, since you have filed a complaint about them, I have gone ahead and removed them. Thanks. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 12:52, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

I thank you. [[User:Benjaminikuta|Benjaminikuta]] ([[User talk:Benjaminikuta|talk]]) 03:36, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

== Using <nowiki><nowiki></nowiki></nowiki> in transcripts to improve accuracy ==

In the transcripts, <nowiki>[[lines]]</nowiki> are being changed to [lines] in order to avoid auto-linking. Why not just surround these with <nowiki><nowiki></nowiki></nowiki> tags and avoid the problem entirely? --[[User:Epauley|Epauley]] ([[User talk:Epauley|talk]]) 04:18, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
:Because it takes less time to type and single brackets are just as readable as double brackets to visitors. It's also a bit more readable in the editor. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 09:55, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

== Strip Title ==

For someone who commonly browses explainxkcd in place of xkcd, and hence often see the strips for the first time here rather than the parent site, I find it somewhat odd that the 'Title Text' is so poorly displayed given how critical it can be to the strip.

I propose that, while retaining the given name (perhaps moving it top left), the title text be enlarged and relocated to being over the strip as originally intended. {{unsigned ip|175.41.133.18}}
:The title text is placed very well at bottom of the image.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 07:20, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

:I would have to agree with Dgbrt, it's placed nicely at the bottom, and there is no need for it to be moved. My reasoning is that you never actually read the title text first, you read it last. Making it <code>text-align: left;</code> does not make sense, because the image is centered (just like on xkcd.com). I also believe that there is no need for it to be re-sized, mainly due to the fact that it is slightly larger than the title text (for me, at least). {{User:Grep/signature|05:18, 08 September 2013}}

:Plus, if you hover over the image, it's the same as on xkcd.com {{User:Grep/signature|06:13, 08 September 2013}}

:I also agree with Dgbrt and Grep. The title text is kind of a bonus and should not be emphasized more than on the original page. On the original site you only see it before the image, if you have very slow internet access (or very fast eyes) --[[User:Chtz|Chtz]] ([[User talk:Chtz|talk]]) 08:06, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

== Sections in talk pages ==

Is there a reason why there are no sections in talk pages? It is not a very big deal, but especially for longer talk pages it would make editing be much handier, especially when using the preview function (not having to find the section every time). Also it automatically adds a description to the history (thus makes it more easy to look for certain edits, or decide by just looking at the [[Special:RecentChanges]], if a comment should concern you. --[[User:Chtz|Chtz]] ([[User talk:Chtz|talk]]) 08:01, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
:When discussion pages are transcluded by the comic discussion template, section headers carry over from talk pages and bad things happen. Using ; to denote headers instead of equals signs works well, and doesn't share transclusion pain. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 08:04, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

== references ==

Any chance we can add [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Cite/Cite.php cite.php] to this wiki? Most pages don't need it, but some comics take on a life of their own and being able to add reference tags would be really helpful for those. [[User:LadyMondegreen|LadyMondegreen]] ([[User talk:LadyMondegreen|talk]]) 01:33, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
: Cite has been added to the wiki. Thanks for the suggestion! --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 01:35, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

== Stylized writing ==

I understand that this wiki isn't as formal as wikipedia or sites like that but it seems that there are a few questionable practices:

1. The use of questions - when a non-rhetorical or unnecessary question is entered into the explanation.

2. Extremely painted/biased view points - when there is obvious bias in the tone of the explanation of the contributor, in other
words; a lack of neutrality.

3. Extreme repetition/rehashing - the explanation restates things and makes for a long and tedious read when a more straight-forward explanation is possible and clearer.

4. The general informality - "This one's an easy one" "This is simple" "this one's straightforward" "You're an idiot for not understanding this one" etc.

5. Many other practices that make the explanation hard to read, difficult to understand, or plain ugly.

I know that there are disparaging view points on how a comic should be explained, but please let's clean up the site a bit, acknowledge each view point and report on all of them and then tighten up the sloppy writing. Carry out arguments in the talk section, not the explanation. Perhaps we could first try to say the majority view point on the interpretation and then write the alternate explanations, of course this would bring up the debate on which is the majority explanation. Either way, more complete, logical explanations should be given more credence. --[[User:Lackadaisical|Lackadaisical]] ([[User talk:Lackadaisical|talk]]) 00:25, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

:I agree with 2-5. 1, on the other hand, is sometimes useful and can contribute the to explanation, although 1 is still a very good point. I would say that you should edit it to have "arguments in the talk" be a 6th point as well. Unfortunately, though, we are not all logical, comic-understanding machines here, so minor deviations of these rules are still to be expected. But I think that overall, these are good rules, even if 2/3 are sort of part of 5.
:[[User:Lackadaisical|Lackadaisical]], please sign your post with <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>{{User:Grep/signature|23:55, 22 October 2013}}

:I understand the use of questions in certain parts. And it was probably better to put the others as sub-categories to five but I wanted to show some common things that can be easily fixed. I know that some explanations require a lot of text and extensive research because of the abstract subjects Randall deals with and that it's difficult to be completely standardized but I think it would be good for us to try to come up with some general things to try to avoid to help the explanations "flow" --[[User:Lackadaisical|Lackadaisical]] ([[User talk:Lackadaisical|talk]]) 00:25, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
::Most of that isn't intentional, it's just an awful lot of labor to copy check all the explanations. I've been going through all the current articles and fixing consistency issues, the worst being wrong transcript/title text/dates and the most benign being wikilinks, spelling and trailing spaces. I'm at 682 so far, but my next pass will be on actual language and content, and it'll probably take longer. It takes a while though, and you can totally work on improving language in articles if you want to. Some explanations were pulled from the old blog, some were written and just got lost in the changelog. Copy editing everything we have so far is a very labor-intensive job, and the only way to really deal with it is to knuckle down and do it, or form a wikiproject and hope to heaven that visitors feel charitable enough to join in on it. I'd *probably* push to finish up all our incomplete articles first though, just because that's more directly related to the purpose of the site; tone and style probably comes second to having correct explanations. That doesn't mean you can't do it yourself, it's just that I'll probably only dedicate the subheader on the main page to one project at a time and our current biggest bugbear hasn't been solved yet. I could put up a sitenotice to see if that speeds the process up any. I'll do that when I get back home. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 03:31, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

== Easy redirect to comic? ==

I've been thinking, and there is one thing that would make navigating to the explained comics easier. My method of browsing is I'll see the comic on xkcd.com first, and if there is something curious about it that I don't quite understand, I'll come here. Sometimes it can be a bit troublesome, going to the homepage and then navigatiing to the right comic. Not too bad, but I'd like an easy way to go direct. So I was thinking, what if you had a redirect such that if you typed in, for example, www.explainxkcd.com/505, you would get redirected to http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=505:_A_Bunch_of_Rocks. That would mean that you could get to the comic just from adding an "explain" to the start of the xkcd.com URL. I don't know if that is at all possible, but it would be pretty handy if it happened. Thoughts?
[[User:Alcatraz ii|Alcatraz ii]] ([[User talk:Alcatraz ii|talk]]) 03:01, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
:[http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=explain_xkcd:Community_portal/Technical#Redirect_from_explainxkcd.com.2F1234 That's actually already on the to-do list.] I'm testing it right now and we should have it up soon. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 04:02, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
:: Awesome :) [[User:Alcatraz ii|Alcatraz ii]] ([[User talk:Alcatraz ii|talk]]) 03:26, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
:::Whoop, forgot to mark this as complete. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 04:37, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
:::: Done! Copy this and drag it to your bookmarks bar: |javascript: var url = document.URL; document.location = url.replace('xkcd.com','explainxkcd.com');| {{unsigned ip|173.245.52.29}}
:::::The feature requested here has also long since been implemented. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 22:20, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

== Increase support via prominent display of copyright and license for text submitted to explainxkcd ==

XKCD itself is rather liberally licensed, and gets lots of good will from that. As it says on the bottom of every page "This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 2.5 License." For details see [http://xkcd.com/license.html xkcd - A Webcomic - License].

But I found nothing on most pages of explainxkcd about copyright or licensing, and it discouraged me from contributing or donating. Finally, as I was writing this proposal up, I found a link on the editing page here: [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=explain_xkcd:Copyrights explain xkcd:Copyrights - explain xkcd] saying that "''The Explain XKCD wiki is generally licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 license (CC-BY-SA-3.0)''". That notice should be more prominent on the site, with at least a link on each page. [[User:Nealmcb|Nealmcb]] ([[User talk:Nealmcb|talk]]) 15:27, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
:This should be mentioned at the main page, including a reference to the xkcd origin.
:BTW: NO DOUBLE SPACES after a sentence. Are you US guys still using a typewriter? It's not rendered at a web page and stupid like Gallons, Miles, Foots, and much more unique US behaviours. But that's just a joke beside.
:The licence hint is much more important, you are just correct.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 21:12, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
::Added a creative commons icon to the footer of the page, next to the powered by mediawiki button. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 22:16, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

== New Comics Bot ==

Would there be need for such a thing?
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.231.52|108.162.231.52]] Synthetica
:Nice idea, I never thought about that before. I will do some tests on existing comics to check if this could reduce the current number of error posts for a new article. When that is ready and working I will talk to some admins. My bot account [[User:DgbrtBOT|DgbrtBOT]] was originally intended for [[1190: Time]] picture uploads, but I never have used it because Time was over. Creating the new pages should be easy in general, avoiding errors will cost some more work. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 20:31, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
::If you can get dgbrtBOT to do that, that'd help us an awful lot. It'd allow us to get rid of the ifexist cases in template:LATESTCOMIC as well, since the bot could change automatically that whenever a new comic goes up. It'll also help us get new comics down almost the moment they pop up, since the bot could sample several times a minute until a comic is posted. So long as it gets the general pattern right so that we have a correct page set up, we're good. An admin can come in sometime later to clean up categories and image urls and other piddly easy-to-fix details. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 20:54, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
:::I will work on this next weekend, just local scripts and no updates here. I also will talk about my results before any automatic updates will be activated. My first focus is on creating the new pages in the general pattern, LATESTCOMIC and also the page "All comics" are maybe a bonus later. And of course all my scripts will be open source.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 21:44, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
::::The first version is ready and I will test it at my local wiki. If everything goes well I could activate it for Wednesday (2013-11-13). LATESTCOMIC and "All comics" are on my roadmap, but first I want produce correct new pages here. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 20:00, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
:::::Righty ho. Here goes. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 20:36, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
Even when my automatic local wiki test did fail today, just a damn wrong password, I will activate the bot here for Wednesday. It will only run from 4:00 PM until 8:00 PM UTC. You will not see my possible updates at [[Special:RecentChanges]] unless you click ''Show bots'' at the top of that page. LATESTCOMIC and "All comics" are not covered, but this is at my TODO list until this test will be successful. Give me a '''GO''' or '''NO-GO''' for this test.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 21:49, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
:Easily a GO, I'll be ready to clean up if anything goes wrong. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 22:08, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
::So be ready on Wednesday for the clean up. My worst case is ''it simply does not work'', second worse scenario is still that I could delete some contend already posted here, but I'm trying to avoid this. ''Huston'', the countdown clock is counting. I'm joking about this because I really want to be confident about this ''BOT'' or ROBOT or uncontrolled action here.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 00:28, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
:::The bot can't do anything that I can't reverse. I can even restore a backup from an hour before the bot's edits if it manages to break the database. How quickly does it poll xkcd, by the way? '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 07:53, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

First live test here (comic 1289). Please delete this page: [[Simple_Answers:_1289]]. Since my local wiki did not provide this templates I could not see this error before. In general the bot will update pages differ to any existing pages, but when it is not changed no update will happen. I'm fixing this errors at my script and do a second test here soon. I want to see it's producing correct pages until the bot will do it's work when I'm sleeping.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 22:31, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
:Ok, test are done here, BOT is scheduled for the next update. Polling is every five minutes on Mon, Wed, and Fri from 04:00 until 08:00 UTC. Let's see how it will work.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 23:08, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
::Couldja ramp that up to once/twice a minute, push the start time back by an hour, and the end time by a few hours? Also, is it possible to terminate it once it finds a comic for a certain day? '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 01:45, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
:::It worked! Though it posted the comic 5 minutes past post time. We has technology now, we can afford to poll faster and closer, yeah? '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 05:32, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
Uhh, it worked... I will increase the polls when I'm more confident about the release times. Today it was approx. 05:00 UTC (GMT) or 01:00 EST (Randall's time zone). Looks like he is still at daylight saving time, would have been 00:00 EDT. The polls will be increased to one minute when I'm sure about the Standard Release Time (SRT). Next steps for the next update on Friday are:
:The "All comics" page.
:The LATESTCOMIC template.
--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 19:54, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
:The LATESTCOMIC template is included for the next run, it just simply has to return a number. But it's still the most critical part because if it does not work the Main Page is broken. I will change this to a better solution using that IFEXIST syntax soon. The list of all comics is still at my ToDo list. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 22:06, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
::The desired content of the LATESTCOMIC template should be just the comic number. If we can get out of having to poll multiple IFEXIST statements to find the latest comic, that would be a fantastic boon to our server performance. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 04:43, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
:::OK, it did work today so I will not change this. Next step is the list for all comics.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 11:10, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
Next run will include an update on the "All comics" page. I'm crossing my fingers. When this update is also successful I will document my Bot at the Bot user page [[User:DgbrtBOT]]. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 22:15, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
:Oh, I forgot this detail: The bot is starting at 00:00 EST (RLT - Randall local time), which is 04:00 UTC and 05:00 MET for me. It polls every 5 minutes until 23:55 MET (22:55 UTC, 18:55 RLT) the main page until a new comic is found. I do not poll the comic number because I want to avoid 404 message logs at the servers.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 22:30, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
:Something went wrong there. That's gonna need fixing. I am enjoying the looks of the apparently faster polling though. Maybe you could also set the start time to 00:00:05 EST to catch the on-time xkcd releases within ten seconds? '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 05:33, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
::Uh, what a mess. I will do some more tests at my local wiki. At the next time I will do a check against the number from the LATESTCOMIC template, only the next number will be processed. The test against my local history did fail because of some cleanups after testings.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 08:18, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
:::I don't like mess. So the BOT got many more checks before posting here but the bot was starting at 05:00 local time for me. I'm really asleep at that time. The mess here was covered, but I do need another GO for the next attempt. Otherwise I will just do a test to my local wiki.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 22:35, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
No GO so far, my next test will run only at my local wiki.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 21:16, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
:My script is here: [https://github.com/dgbrt/explainXKCD_update explainXKCD_update]. At my current test "explainxkcd.com" is commented out and "localhost" is active. Since I don't like mess and the bot does act while I am sleeping the next update must be done manually here. I'm hoping the bot will be ready for the next update on Friday.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 22:15, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
::Bot is ready for Friday, everything went smooth at my last local test today. The bot did find the latest comic at 04:05 UTC and all essential pages were properly created. So I will activate it for this site again. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 21:57, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
Bot did work as expected. So I name it release 1.1337, the next planed release will be 2.1337 (beta) because of this two issues:
*"Include any categories below this line." will be removed because it doesn't make any sense any more.
*BETA: I want to use the full template features at [[List of all comics]], just ensuring that the pictures are working properly. No need for this at the most comics, but the BOT doesn't cover all possibilities on corrupt file names like we have had in "Pi vs. Tau". The picture was without that dot. My bot just shows the real link it did upload here.
I'm pretty sure we will have some issues on this bot, but for general pages it should work. So the bot will be active on Mon,Wed,Fri from 0:00 EST (or EDT) every five minutes until it did found a new comic, on success the bot does not poll any more.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 21:51, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
:Aww, it's a bot. It doesn't need to rest or take time off to do other stuff. It can totally poll once or more times per minute. Also, if you set the start time to a few seconds after midnight, Randall time, when he uploads a comic on-time, you'll get it within a few seconds as opposed to having to wait for the next polling. As for the image names, maybe you could convert spaces in the comic name to underscores, compare the two comic names you have and use that to decide which version of the template to use? '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 23:08, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
::I have to avoid that the bot is running twice, Internet Timeouts and more. And the comics are also published later sometimes. Look at my release [https://github.com/dgbrt/explainXKCD_update 1.1337], release 2.1337 will be later, Maybe I should start at 2 minutes after 0:00, but let's see right now how the bot does work. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 00:38, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
Uhh, what a huge discussion here. The bot will get a major update soon: Scheduler does start it once and until a comic is found and uploaded it here or an other limit is reached (maybe the end of the day) the bot will poll by a small delay. But every poll is still an entire download from the main page, When a new comic is found bot stops.
:Why, you could use http://xkcd.com/info.0.json, right?[[Special:Contributions/108.162.231.52|108.162.231.52]] 07:38, 2 December 2013 (UTC)Synthetica
::The BOT performs perfect and I prefer to analyze the original page. A title text like the one from today (a text showing a link) will be covered in the future.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 10:35, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
A great enhancement would be also covering a new comic like 1190 Time was. I'm looking forward on this, some ideas, it does require a complete analyse of the page and then finding some strange content.
--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 23:05, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

== Require description for 'incomplete' tags ==
I've been trying to fix some of the incompletes, but several explanation pages I've come across are tagged incomplete without any reason given. The reason should be a required part of the tag. --[[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.223|173.245.52.223]] 03:35, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
:This incomplete tags are just older than the recent change of that template. Current adds require a description, but it's not easy to figure out all that old reasons. If someone does find a reason, please just add it. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 20:22, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
:I agree! Incomplete tags should require a reason! [[User:PDesbeginner|PDesbeginner]] ([[User talk:PDesbeginner|talk]]) 03:51, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

== Should there be a subwiki to cover the shop links that appear above the comic? ==

The current one (as of writing) is [http://imgs.xkcd.com/store_news/store_gd_b11_1ze4.png] but this is a different than the usual, and there was also a third in between these.
[[User:Rsranger65|Rsranger65]] ([[User talk:Rsranger65|talk]]) 06:00, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
:Those are very ephemeral. They aren't going to exist for very long, I don't know how valuable it would be to archive that stuff. We could probably do it, but having to figure out another naming convention and all for advertisements doesn't appeal to me at the current moment. If you can flesh it out, I'd love to see how you think we should do it. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 07:24, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

== New Character ==

OK, I think we need a name for the character with a goatee and glasses in comics [[435: Purity]], [[796: Bad Ex]] and [[964: Dorm Poster]] as well as possibly others. Edit: oh and I suggest Goatee and Glasses Guy, but I'm open for suggestions Edit 2: also in [[826: Guest Week: Zach Weiner (SMBC)]] Halfhat {{unsigned|Halfhat}}
edit 3: Another sighting [[954: Chin-Up Bar]] [[User:Halfhat|Halfhat]] ([[User talk:Halfhat|talk]]) 16:57, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
: In the transcript, he is called "Person with Glasses and a Goatee" --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 15:39, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
:: "Glasses Guy", "Goatee Guy" are both probably descriptive enough! --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 15:41, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

== What If Comics ==

Hi, I was thinking, maybe at some point we should do the comics in the ''What If?'' section, like [http://what-if.xkcd.com/imgs/a/36/cornstarch_bitcoins.png this one.] [[User:Halfhat|Halfhat]] ([[User talk:Halfhat|talk]]) 20:01, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
: Start creating the pages for them! --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 15:36, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
: I think I can start creating one or two pages for What If, if that helps... [[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 16:14, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
:: If nobody has any problem with it, I'm gonna give it a try later. :) [[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 13:14, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
:::I thought they were already pretty self-explanatory though. Also, how are we gonna organize and present them? '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 16:31, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
::::I totally agree with David: Read the entire What-If page and follow the links provided by Randall. No one of us can do that better in depth. But an overview page for this site is maybe not a bad idea, we just need a proper link here — a link at the main menu on the left. Translations to other languages are just another issue. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 22:37, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
:::::Yes, I was thinking of an overview, summarizing the contents and discoveries of each what if page. Not to mention, we could also organize what if pages by categories, such as physics/love.
:::::Would you like me to post here an example of what I would write? That way we can decide if it's worthy of creating an actual page. [[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 12:53, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
:Adding pages for What If? posts would be very helpful. Although the articles themselves are obviously self-explanatory, there are almost as many subtle references, running gags, and in-jokes in What If? posts these days as in the comics themselves.
I often visit explain xkcd when I feel like I'm missing an inside joke or a pop culture reference in a comic, and it would be very helpful to many people (especially those from other cultures/subcultures) to have the same service.
For example, today's What If? contains multiple allusions to the Superman Movie, a running Citation Needed joke, and a whole comic that is a not-so-subtle dig at Elon Musk and the Hyperloop. It would be awesome if the community here at explainxkcd could tackle stuff like that.
Anonymous 20:05, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

I agree. I don't understand the mouseover text on the first image in "Snow Removal", for example. [[User:Benjaminikuta|Benjaminikuta]] ([[User talk:Benjaminikuta|talk]]) 22:57, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

I can't agree more. As a fan of What if books, I think this website should add a "what if book comics" section, therefore there would be a larger number of comics to explore.[[User:I HAVE NO NAME|I HAVE NO NAME]] ([[User talk:I HAVE NO NAME|talk]]) 10:59, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
:As in what you can find under [[What If (disambiguation)]], do you mean? Note that you're replying to comments more than nine years old. (And eating up your meagre VPN quota to do so, you say elsewhere...) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.27|172.70.91.27]] 11:13, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

== Transcripts ==

The whole point of the transcripts is to have those who are unable to view images to still be able to read the comic, right?

Then why is it required to stick to strictly official transcripts, where sometimes rewriting them slightly would make them flow better or otherwise get the ideas across better? I've tried rewriting a few, but they get reverted. I think that having easier-to-understand transcripts would be more important than strictly following official transcripts; what do you think? (For a few examples, see [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=207:_What_xkcd_Means&diff=60061&oldid=57400 this edit] and [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=995%3A_Coinstar&diff=59862&oldid=57316 this edit]. [[User:Zowayix|Zowayix]] ([[User talk:Zowayix|talk]]) 17:38, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
:We use the original transcript to try and deduce original author intent if it's unclear from the image. I remember one comic where Beret Guy was off in the distance and it was difficult to distinguish him from the image, but the official transcript said it was him. We don't stick to the original transcript if it's obviously wrong, or it has typographical errors: see [[Laser Scope]]. Those edits seem to be mainly targeted at language and clarity, and should be fine. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 23:06, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
::Would it be helpful to have another (optional) section for expanding on the official transcripts? I too think it could be helpful, especially for complex images (such as 1079/United Shapes [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1079]). Or does supplemental description belong in the Explanation sections? Cheers. [[User:Karenb|Karenb]] ([[User talk:Karenb|talk]]) 23:00, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
:::Naaah, how many people even know there's an original transcript? If the original is wrong, change it. If your additions begin to verge on explanatory, move eet to the trivia/explanation sections. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 00:52, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

== "Characters in this Comic" section ==

Should there be a "Characters in this Comic" section in each comic explanation? (I feel like this should be longer but don't have anything else to say.) [[User:Z|Z]] ([[User talk:Z|talk]]) 23:33, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

:There is a Category section at the bottom of each comic. Just scroll down and you will see any character belonging to a specific comic. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 21:50, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

== Adding the Radiation chart from XKCD ==

Hi
As there are already other comics with explanations even though they are not part of the number system.
This one does not seem to have any yet:
http://xkcd.com/radiation/
And as it is very alike the Money strip (the unexplained of the week) so I think it should be explained as well.
If you agree please add it as I'm not sure how to do that.

Best regards
:[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 18:47, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

== Reddit comments? ==

There should be a link in each comics explanation page somewhere linking to the comment section for the relevant comic on /r/xkcdcomic or reddit.
:The reddit comments page isn't ''that'' close to what we do though. If this is more popular, we'll do it, though there'll need to be a fair bit of post-hoc editing since I don't think there's a standard URL scheme for all the past comics. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 03:15, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
:I just came here to ask if we could do this, but I looked into it and it wouldn't be simple. Could we write a bot to run on the xkcd subreddit to post the link here? --[[User:Eluvatar|Eluvatar]] ([[User talk:Eluvatar|talk]]) 05:53, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

== Not insulting new users ==

I am writing a response to a vulnerability assessment. I have included a link to http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/936 noting that it contains a good explanation of the relative security of passwords vs passphrases. I just noticed that the top of that page contains "Explain xkcd: It's 'cause you're dumb." Looks like I'll have to find a different site to link to. --[[User:Pascal|Pascal]] ([[User talk:Pascal|talk]]) 17:33, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
:I agree. While I'm sure it can seem cute or funny in various circles, that text has always seemed immature and inappropriate to me, and I'm sure to many folks we'd like to invite to the site. I suggest that it be changed. [[User:Nealmcb|Nealmcb]] ([[User talk:Nealmcb|talk]]) 19:52, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

:The XKCD http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/936 suggestion for password is actually not that good. [http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/62832/is-the-oft-cited-xkcd-scheme-no-longer-good-advice read here] for some more discussion. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.253.6|162.158.253.6]] 23:49, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

:I also agree. I'm not here because I'm stupid, I'm here because I don't know something and I'm hoping this site can help. It's off putting to have that text there, and there's no benefit to it. What about just repeating the thing at the top of XKCD.com: "Romance, Sarcasm, Math, and Language: Explained"?

:I agree, and there is actually a very long talk page started about this subject in the miscellaneous section. Eventually people voted to keep it, but the main argument on that side was that that was the way things had always been. I am fairly new to the site (this is actually my first post on it), so I don't know how these things work, but I do think that that should be changed. There were actually a large number of good proposals for replacements with the other one, and I thought it would be funny if there was a randomly selected character every time you loaded a page, with each character having their own tagline. Is there any way to try to get this changed again?[[Special:Contributions/172.68.78.52|172.68.78.52]]

:Another vote for changing it. I like the idea of rotating through a number of taglines. The world already has too many people who habitually verbally reinforce the idea they aren't smart, why try to convince them they're right about themselves when they might otherwise be experiencing curiosity? (Related: Carol Dweck) ''Edit: [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/explain_xkcd:Community_portal/Miscellaneous#Sightless_readers_offended_by_the_.22It.27s_.27cause_you.27re_dumb.22_tagline. link to prior conversation]'' [[Special:Contributions/172.69.35.37|172.69.35.37]] 10:56, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

:Concur. When I link to xkcd comics, I also add a link to the equivalent page here for screenreader users. While I try to link to the transcript sections specifically, I sometimes forget or typo it, and people may check the rest of the page anyway. What are the rules for decisions here? [[Special:Contributions/141.101.68.7|141.101.68.7]] 22:14, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

:I disagree, it's a tagline and obviously just a light jibe, no reason to change it. However the main reason I'm commenting is to point out that hundreds of other users saw this proposal and didn't reply so even if there's concurrence among the minority who respond to the proposal it doesn't mean that the proposal has wide support and should be implemented --[[User:Lackadaisical|Lackadaisical]] ([[User talk:Lackadaisical|talk]])

:I think it would be a good idea to have the tagline link to a page explaining it, or is that a little [[1447: Meta-Analysis|too meta]]? It'd be useful to help newbies understand the phrase, at least. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.212|108.162.246.212]] 22:56, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

:I think it should be changed to something nice. [[User:While False|While False]] ([[User talk:While False|speak]]) 16:30, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

:The [[Black Hat]] image is blurry. [[User:ClassicalGames|ClassicalGames]] ([[User talk:ClassicalGames|talk]]) 08:54, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

:Change it or just delete it (do you really need a tagline?). It is not in line with the spirit of the XKCD jokes (it is not smart sarcasm, it is first-grade humour) and it is unnecessarily mean. Does it even come from a real XKCD comic? I could not find any reference. If not, I also find it disrespectful to use one of Randall Munroe's characters in this way. I understand that the team that runs this wiki wants to keep it as it is for historical reasons. Any other arguments like "not everyone who comes to this web site complains, then most people are fine with it" or "we need consensus to change it (is it the ONU?)" sound pretentious. To me it is like finding a goatse on the front page. It's ugly, but it is not a problem as long as I get the information I need and leave. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.242.54|172.71.242.54]] 23:09, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

== RSS feed ==

Is there an RSS feed (or some equivalent) of Explain XKCD available? It's helpful for those using feed readers, and superior to the primary XKCD RSS since there are explanations and the mouse over text is transcribed for the lazy. Thanks [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.154|108.162.219.154]] 08:24, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
:[http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Special:NewPages&feed=atom&hideredirs=1&limit=90&offset=&namespace=0&username=&feed=&tagfilter= Why yes, we do!] It's the regular new pages log that all wikis have. It's a little ugly at the moment, and sometimes junk gets in there when a bot chucks spam at us, so a nicer feed is in the works, but the linked one should do you excellently for now. When the nice one is done, you'll see it in the sidebar below the "Help" button. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 11:31, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

== Navigation Pane Link - Categories ==

How about having a link to the "Special:Categories" page in the navigation pane?

A fair amount of effort has gone into categorising the comics, and at the moment it isn't particularly obvious how to browse by category. Is this worth doing?{{unsigned|Pudder}}
:Space on the sidebar is on a premium. I dunno, I'd probably be against it, but I want to hear what other admins say as well. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 16:45, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

== Alternate realities what if would benefit from a wiki entry ==

The what if entry from the end of November 2014 providing excerpts from alternate reality what ifs would benefit from an explain page.
I suspect these may have been typos that have been made into jokes, but some of the humor might not be apparent to all.
I doubt I have access (or maybe know how) to set it up myself.

Cheers {{unsigned ip|199.27.133.42}}

: Made it. Check out [[What If: 120: Alternate Universe What Ifs]]. [[User:17jiangz1|17jiangz1]] ([[User talk:17jiangz1|talk]]) 09:10, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
::We don't actually have a structure for what if pages in general, so I'll have to take that down, but when we do we can make pages for every what if. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 09:57, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

== Secondary URLs? ==

I have made http://www.xkcd.ga and http://www.xkcd.tk both forward to http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page. Is this ok? [[User:17jiangz1|17jiangz1]] ([[User talk:17jiangz1|talk]]) 08:50, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
:While we probably won't advertise them because we can't guarantee the uptime of third-party URLs, and they add an additional redirect layer and lack our shortened URL features, you're free to purchase and link URLs to us independently. We are not owned by Randall and as such cannot claim to actually be xkcd, so I'm not hugely comfortable with you using the plain name "xkcd" to link to us; a url in the format http://www.xkcd.[TLD] should by rights link to the main xkcd site, but no trademark claim has been made or likely will be made, so you should be fine with doing whatever you want to do with URL redirects '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 09:57, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

== LaTeX (Or MathML, TeX) support? ==

[[1489:_Fundamental_Forces|In the most recent comic at the time of posting]], there was use of formulae, being: Fgravity = G m1m2/d2 Fstatic = Ke q1q2/d2 
There are probably many more comics using formulae that cannot be rendered properly without the use of LaTeX or something. The [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Displaying_a_formula help page on Wikipedia] says that the following should work: <math>F_{gravity}=G\frac{m_1m_2}{d^2}</math> <math>F_{static}=K_e\frac{q_1q_2}{d^2}</math>
Provided that one has to set <source lang="php" enclose="none">$wgUseTeX = true;</source> in [[mw:Manual:LocalSettings.php|LocalSettings.php]]. Is there any reason for this to be disabled? If there is, is there any alternative? —[[Special:Contributions/141.101.106.95|141.101.106.95]] 21:18, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

:The wgUseTeX flag was deprecated in mediawiki 1.18 in a move to simplify base mediawiki and move niche features into seperate plugins. I vaguely remember this being requested in the past, can't find any evidence of me implementing it. I'll try it now, see what stopped me last time. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 01:12, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
:Ah, there's a bit of configuration work to it and I was busy at the time probably. I'll put it on the growing to do list on my userpage. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 01:20, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
This problem is '''solved'''. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 12:03, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

== Merge Cueball & Rob ==

At the risk of posting this idea too many places and annoying everyone, I would like to propose that we consider merging [[Cueball]] and [[Rob]] and redirecting Cueball to Rob, much as [[Cutie]] now redirects to [[Megan]]. The most common name given for a Cueball-like character in the strip is "Rob". Like Megan, he is not always named. Also, like Megan, Rob tends to have distinct characteristics such as being a nerdy alter-ego to Randall (e.g. [[1168: tar]]) just as Megan often is the appearance given to comic representations of Randall's wife (see [[1141: Two Years]], before hair loss). Megan and Cueball appear to have a relationship (e.g. [[159: Boombox]]) and Megan clearly hangs out with Rob in ways not inconsistent with adventurous couples (e.g. [[782: Desecration]]). Finally, comics that feature both [[Black Hat]] and "Cueball" seem to depict them as friends and possibly roommates. However, we learn in [[1102: Fastest-Growing]] that Black Hat's roommate is named "Rob".

In short, I believe if [[159: Boombox]] had called "Cueball" "Rob" we would've rewritten both Cutie and Cueball to redirect there. Because we learned that "Cueball's" name is actually Rob much later (I think the earliest occurrences are [[647: Scary]], and [[716: Time Machine]]; the first time he is seen with Megan in a capacity that might indicate a relationship is [[782: Desecration]]). [[User:Djbrasier|Djbrasier]] ([[User talk:Djbrasier|talk]]) 19:05, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

:As I answered your comment on [[1496: Art Project]] Rob is [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Category:Comics_featuring_Rob already listed] as part of the category for Comics featuring Cueball: and this is listed as the first entry when going to the page for [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Category:Comics_featuring_Cueball Category:Comics featuring Cueball]. Cueball is such an integral part of explain xkcd that I do not think any other users wish to change. Also the 9 incidences with Rob is maybe a specific person and at the time Randall did not think to give him any features. Also Cueballs have no specific behavior as you allude to. Neither has Megan. You can always find several Cueballs and Megans that behave a certain way. But then you can find many other comics where they behave the opposite way. Thus Rob and Cueball should not be merged. Also there are several comics with more than one Cueball. And here we have this problem: It is typically the first who writes the transcript who decides who of the Cueballs (or Megans) he feels represents the "real" Cueball. However, there is no real behavior of Cueball. So who should decide. I could change all these transcripts so it becomes the other character who becomes Cueball, because I think that the first transcriber did it wrong. And this is why in a comic with more than one Cueball (where neither is called Rob or the like) neither of the two should be called Cueball. It would still be in the category with Cueball, because that is just comics with a Cueball like character no matter how many. But they cannot be named Cueball and friend or Rob and friend (unless Rob's name is mentioned!) They could be called Cueball 1 and Cueball 2, but then guy or man would be better. I know several places have comics with two Cueballs where someone has designated one of them Cueball and the other friend of foe etc. But this should be corrected so none of these are called Cueball. Same should go for more than one Megan. But this is very rare, and I have only found one other than ''Art project'' and here only one Megan had any lines. The problem with different opinions on which Cueball is which came for the first time up with Megan in ''Art project'': The two Megan-like characters was first named (left to right) Megan and Danish. Then unidentified girl and Megan. Then Megan and unidentified girl, then two Megan like girls with short and long hair and finally you reverted it to my first change away from Danish to unidentified girl and Megan. (I can live with that as there is difference in hair length and behavior). But as far as I see it Cueball is not Rob as well as Megan should have continued to be called Cutie (but I would not like to change that now, as I have grown fond of Megan). But at the time the change was done I believe it was wrong. The same fondness for the name Cueball also makes me sure that no one else would wish to call him Rob, even if that is as much his name as Megan is Cuties... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:57, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

::My argument is that it is inertia and sentiment ("fond of Megan") that prevents an objective, equal treatment here. [[User:Djbrasier|Djbrasier]] ([[User talk:Djbrasier|talk]]) 22:47, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

::Also, regarding the analogy made above to Danish. I am fine with a nickname when Randall hasn't named a character. So she was "unidentified girl" and then became "Danish". But, when we named her "Danish", we went back to "Journal 1" and other places and renamed her. My proposal is that we should go back through and rename "Cueball" as "Rob". Alternatively, we should reinstate "Cutie" for cases in which it is not clear that a character is "Megan" per se, but just Megan in her "everywoman" capacity. [[User:Djbrasier|Djbrasier]] ([[User talk:Djbrasier|talk]]) 00:00, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure how to post a poll, but I see the following options:

1) Status quo: Cueball for all unidentified males without distinct characteristics (e.g. hats), Megan for all shoulder-length brunettes. Rob only for named Cueballs. Multiple Cueballs in a comic mean one is named Cueball and others get named "Friend", etc.

2) Symmetry 1: Cueball/Rob stays as is. Unnamed brunettes get named "Cutie". "Megan" like "Rob" is reserved for comics in which a name is used.

3) Symmetry 2: Megan stays as is. Rob is the default for indistinct males. "Cueball" page redirects to "Rob" (as "Cutie" now redirect to "Megan").

4) Expunge all Cueballs from multi-Cueball comics: Basically the status quo, except that in comics with multiple Cueballs none are named "Cueball" and are just all given names "Man 1", "Man 2", etc.

I am ambivalent regarding options 2 or 3. I could live with 1 if there is consensus for it, but I don't like it. 4 is a disaster in my mind and gains nothing. [[User:Djbrasier|Djbrasier]] ([[User talk:Djbrasier|talk]]) 22:47, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

:We are probably the only one who reads these post...? But anyway as is clear I'm for 4. Which has been used several places already.´I can live with 1. I think 2 and 3 are disasters. Also it would be completely confusing for those who have used this page for many years. Why do you bring this up now? Is it because of the multiple Megan comics, or have you just signed up here, and dislike that it doesn't follow the rules you would have expected?--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:19, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
::I suggest instead that we create a category for multiple Cueballs, so it is easy to explain why the Cueball is not a specific character, and thus can never be Rob (except when it is clear from the text), or be expected to behave a certain way. And in reverse we make a Named Megan category so it is easy to find the few (three?) where she has been named. This by the way has nothing to do with the other suggestions, so I might just do that to get an overview. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:19, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
::: It seems more consistent to me to use [[Cutie]] for all unnamed "Megans" and reserve "Megan" for named comics. Thus, Rob is '''a''' Cueball and Megan is '''a''' Cutie. [[User:Djbrasier|Djbrasier]] ([[User talk:Djbrasier|talk]]) 13:30, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

::::I've read through some of your discussions (Here, Kynde's talk page, Art Project discussion), and thought I might put my thoughts forwards. Essentially we have three questions here:
::::1) Should we merge Cueball and Rob, and rename all Cueballs as Rob?
::::2) Should we rename all Megans as Cutie, except where she is explicitly named?
::::3) Once questions 1 & 2 are answered, what do we do where the 'same' character appears multiple times in one comic?

::::*I understand the objective argument for renaming Cueball to Rob, however I'm unconvinced of the importance of being entirely objective, and I can't imagine Cueball being renamed to anything other than Cueball.
::::*I think its fairly clear where the Cueball label has come from, even if it might not be immediately obvious to some. Even if readers don't make the link between Cueball's head and a cue-ball, it is quite a generic label, which I think fits well with the transient every-man nature of Cueball's usage.
::::*There is something far more specific about the name Rob, which suggests that he is the same character every time. The origin of the name isn't obvious, which I think would be likely to cause confusion.
::::This brings me to conclude that for me, the answer to Q1 has to be that Cueball should stay as Cueball, unless explicitly named something else.

::::The question of changing Megan to Cutie is one where I am less confident. Following the arguments I've made above, the outcome has to be that we rename to Cutie unless specifically named Megan, however I am not entirely convinced. The name Megan has a history, there are surely lots of people who now know her as Megan, what do we really stand to gain from all the work of changing to Cutie? I would also suggest that the name Cutie may not be accepted well by those with strong feminist views.

::::As far as multi-character comics, I don't have time right now, but I will come back later and add my thoughts. Now that we've only got a few incomplete comics, we've had to resort to discussing renaming characters!--[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 15:07, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
:::::I agree with the reasons for keeping Cueball and Megan. And also that Cutie is such a loaded word, that it should never have been used anyway. This I did not immediately think about, but Cutie sounds like something from either a porn movie, or else a Bond Babe... Like the phrase from one of those movies: "Hello, I'm Plenty..." Then we should have to find a third name. And everyone here knows her as Megan. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:24, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
::::::I have created the [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Category:Multiple_Cueballs Category:Multiple Cueballs] to locate them and to show how often there are more than one. Feel free to add any I haven't found yet. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:45, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

I think Rob is Black Hat's roommate and Megan's boyfriend/partner/husband (see above). The "Cueball" in comics such as [[159: Boombox]] and [[542: Cover-Up]] should, in my view, be renamed "Rob", even though he is not explicitly called that in those comics. Most other "Cueball" comics can stay unchanged. [[User:Djbrasier|Djbrasier]] ([[User talk:Djbrasier|talk]]) 00:43, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
:I have left my reason to disagree also with this on the two comics talk page. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:24, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

In my opinion, it is quite clear that [[Randall]] has chosen to name the main male protagonist [[Rob]], for the few occasions where he needs characters to call upon each other, in the same way as he has chosen [[Megan]] for the main female protagonist. We should therefore try to overcome our nostalgia, follow Randall, and call the common male protagonist Rob. The problem with multiple cueballs can most often be resolved by identifying the protagonist, from the first-person narration or the general perspective. Thus, in [[525: I Know You're Listening]] Rob is the comic's "I", to the left. In [[1110: Click and Drag]], Rob is obviously flying with a balloon. In [[610: Sheeple]] Rob is arguably the guy in the foreground facing us. Non-Rob "cueballs" we could refer to as "friend" "man", etc. In this way roughly half of the "multiple cueballs" would be resolved. I think I can live with a few unclear cases, like [[220: Philosophy]]. [[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 12:22, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

:A featureless character has been ''specifically'' named Rob in 9 comics, compared with 968 'Comics featuring Cueball'. I believe it is fundamentally flawed to assert that because a featureless character is named Rob in less than 1% of appearances, that all featureless characters should therefore be assumed to be Rob. As I've discussed above, I think that Rob strongly implies a specific person, whereas Cueball is a vague 'everyman' character. I feel it would be a huge error to change all Cueballs to Robs.--[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 17:37, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

::The problem with that logic is that "Megan" is only named in a small number of comics (fewer that "Rob"). So we should have a different name for an unnamed generic female. [[Cutie]] is fine, but if people perceive that as sexist, then another name, maybe "Cuegirl" or "Brunette" would work. (Side note: I doubt "Cutie" would be perceived as sexist and there's history there.) What I '''do''' find sexist is the fact that there is asymmetry between male and female "everyperson"s. In sum, I would say there is at less evidence to support naming Megan-everywoman "Megan" in all cases as there is to name Rob-everyman (here called "Cueball") "Rob" in all cases. Asymmetry here ignores the fact that Randall clearly intends his name to be "Rob" and also that we are using a proper name for everywoman but a contrived name for everyman, while creating an artificial distinction between Rob and Cueball and smearing out any possible distinction between Megan-everywoman and Megan-properName. [[User:Djbrasier|Djbrasier]] ([[User talk:Djbrasier|talk]]) 13:18, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

:::As I put in my earlier comment (see above), I do agree that the logical conclusion is that Megan should no longer be named Megan, and should have an equivalent generic name. As an aside, I'm quite partial to your suggestion of Cuegirl. I disagree with your assertion that "Randall clearly intends his name to be Rob", and I think that is the central point of this discussion. I don't believe that there is anywhere near enough evidence to assign a specific name to what I believe is a generic character. If we want to go for formal logic, consider the syllogism "Some non descipt characters are called Rob, there are many non-descript characters, therfore all non-descript characters are called Rob". The conclusion simply does not follow. --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 14:22, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

::::Great, I vote for Cuegirl & Cueball :: Megan & Rob! [[User:Djbrasier|Djbrasier]] ([[User talk:Djbrasier|talk]]) 01:31, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

I agree with Djbrasier's and St.nerol's arguments, and I too feel that the arguments against dealing with this in an objective, symmetrical and logical way seem mostly based on nostalgia. Either we agree that a few named instances of the everywoman are sufficient to generalize to the (vastly more numerous) unnamed instances, and apply the same standard to the everyman, which is only consistent (and even more justified in the case of Rob since he is named in more comics than Megan), or we decide that the extrapolation is unjustified and we revert the Cutie-->Megan merge. The alternative --having double standards and deciding things based on historical baggage and emotional attachment rather than rationality-- makes no sense for followers of the comic that ''literally invented'' nerd-sniping!

I'd also add that, as a non-native speaker, "cueball" doesn't ring any immediate bells unless the connection to cue balls is pointed out explicitly -- so actually Rob works even better as a generic name than Cueball. We have already [[#New character|agreed previously]] that clarity is better than cleverness when we named [[Hairy]], forgoing the less obvious alliteration "Harry", so I vote we use the name Randall ''actually'' gave us, let go of our attachments to a creation he never endorsed, and honor our collective nerdiness by doing the logical thing: apply our standards uniformly and adopt Rob the same way we adopted Megan. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 06:09, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

:I've already put my thoughts forward above, so I won't repeat the same ground I've covered, other than to say I believe it would be a mistake to turn all Cueballs into Robs. While I will admit to having some nostalgia for the name Cueball, that isn't a major facet of my argument. I believe that any generic name is better than a specific name. Call them Stickboy & Stickgirl if you want! I know there are a fairly significant number of contributors and visitors who do not have English as their first language, but I don't believe that is a reason to choose a specific name, rather than a generic name, even if the origin of the latter isn't immediately obvious to all. It would be interesting to know whether each of us sees Cueball as always being the same person, or Cueball *is* Randall, or Cueball is just a changeable everyman.

:To me, he is a changeable everyman, who I guess may represent or be based on: Randall, his friends, family or acquaintances, famous people, someone he saw in the street, or a completely made up character used to fill a specific role in the comic. The reason I argue againt merging Rob & Cueball is that the Cueball I see is this morphing and fluid character, and to use a specific name to tie him down to being the same character all the time runs completely counter to that. --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 08:31, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

:: Understood, and sorry for mischaracterizing your argument (the nostalgia part does cloud the discussion though). I suppose I would be somewhat ambivalent to either have Rob+Megan, or Cueball+Cutie -- Cuegirl doesn't work because she has hair :) --, in the interests of reason and symmetry. But I lean slightly towards Rob+Megan because those are names Randall actually gave us, while anything else is our own invention and thus has no claim to legitimacy other than popular support.
:: Particularly, while I understand your concern about shoehorning the various personality traits the Cueballs show in different comics into a single persona, that doesn't seem to have been a problem for Megan -- not to mention real people ''are'' indeed complex and multi-faceted beings (or "morphing and fluid", to use your terms) rather than one-dimensional caricatures. Heck, even Black Hat has his romantic side! :) So in light of that, I don't think we have to worry about ruining Cueball by naming him Rob -- if anything, that'd add more depth to him as a character! --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 16:35, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
:::I'm still very much against changing things here. Call it nostalgia, but there are many users who will never read these arguments, who one day comes back and cannot find Megan or Cueball, and will ask who the heck are Cuegirl/Cutie. I'm completely with Pudder on the problem with giving Cueball the name Rob. It just doesn't make sense. I agree that we have a inconsistency with Megan. But then everyone who uses this page a few times, becomes familiar with that name. However the main problem with all your great ideas is this. Who should correct the either 984 pages where Cueball is mentioned because he is a part of it (and all the other pages relevant to him or where he is exactly mentioned because he isn't part of the comic) and/or who should do the same for 487 comics (plus loose pages) for Megan. Unless those in favor for changing the names will do this, then the discussion is moot. It is already clearly stated in the relevant pages that these two characters are generic and that they have been named but a few times. So what more can we do unless someone is willing to use several days to change this back. I sincerely doubt you can keep the correct syntax if you just try a brute force replacement? There are so many interconnecting links etc. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:21, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

I completely disagree with merging Cueball and Rob. Rob has [[276|Emily]] and [[632|Lisa]] as girlfriends, and Cueball has Megan. Rob also lives a more action-filled and stereotypical life compared to Cueball. --[[User:Youforgotthisthing|Youforgotthisthing]] ([[User talk:Youforgotthisthing|talk]]) 13:14, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

I think the main stances here are clear:
* Keep as is
* Rename Cuball to Rob
* Change Megan back to Cutie/Cuegirl
Since keeping it status quo wouldn't change anything and is asymmetrical, I'll go over the others:
* Rename Cueball to Rob - Arguments:
** Randall gave him this name;
** It would offer symmetry to Megan;
** If the Cutie -> Megan logic is to be followed (as she was changed once named in the comics) then Cueball should be Rob;
** Even though cueball is a generic everyman name, Rob seems more like a name you could give anyone and would be more recognizable to non-native English speakers.
* Change Megan back to Cutie/Cuegirl - Arguments:
** It would cause symmetry again, letting her have an everywoman name;
** Nostalgia for Cueball;
** Megan is not always the same character, so she should not always have the name Megan

I happen to agree with the idea of merging Cueball and Rob, but I'm not closed to the idea of Cutie/Cuegirl. The main problem is that these characters are typically interchangeable everymen/everywomen and there can be more than one in a comic. So another question is what we should do for multiple Cueballs/Robs. In my opinion, we should have all the comics with more than one depict them as Man 1, Man 2, etc. --[[User:Sensorfire|Sensorfire]] ([[User talk:Sensorfire|talk]]) 17:04, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
:Well I disagree. The users are used to refeer to these characters now by these names. It is also impractical to try to change them all. Megan is rarely twice in a comic. Maybe she is more the same like Black Hat is. But it is made clear that they are not the same in every comic in their pages. If there are muliple Cueballs but one is the main protagonist then he us cueball. If none can be singled out then Cueball like guy to the left/right can be used. I have done that for tbose cases I have found so far ([[:Category:Multiple_Cueballs|49 today]]).--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:58, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Well, somebody pointed out that the title text of [[1783: Emails]] suggests that the Cueball in the comic is most certainly not Rob, and calling the main comic character 'Man 1' as above would be silly. And on top of all this, 'Cueball' occurs so much we would probably need to take a regex to every explanation in [[:Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]. [[User:Jacky720|That's right, Jacky720 just signed this]] ([[User talk:Jacky720|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jacky720|contribs]]) 14:50, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

Why hasn't anyone thought of the name "Hairball"? {{unsigned ip|172.68.189.187}}
:Please don't forget to sign your posts. And everybody should read this first: [[Characters]] and [[Rob]]. For short: Rob is a named Cueball. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 11:57, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

== How to fit explanations of new classes of xkcd-related mysteries into the site: what-if, t-shirts, posters, special comics etc. ==

I suggest that the [http://explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/explain_xkcd:About explain xkcd] page should explain how this site is laid out, and what sorts of things are explained here besides the online numbered xkcd comics that come out three times a week.

For example, there is the [[A Smarter Planet]] series, and there are ideas for explaining some of the [http://what-if.xkcd.com/ What-If] series. I'd like to add my explanation of the [https://gist.github.com/nealmcb/398af29a72f7b3efc202 XKCD Greek t-shirt, with mathematical, scientific and engineering uses for greek letters] and perhaps some other t-shirts, posters and the like.

But I can't even figure out how to find non-numbered-comic-explanations, without going thru the entire [[Special:AllPages]] listing, which includes a huge set of unnumbered aliases as well as the numbered ones.

I've taken a stab towards that by editing the About page to point to some categories (and to start with a little overview), but since I'm just poking around, I might have missed some things. [[User:Nealmcb|Nealmcb]] ([[User talk:Nealmcb|talk]]) 19:40, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

== Link to "Special pages" on main page ==

I think there should be a link to [[Special:SpecialPages]] on the main-page--[[User:17jiangz1|17jiangz1]] ([[User talk:17jiangz1|talk]]) 11:55, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
:Special pages is a default feature in every mediawiki installation. It's also in the sidebar of every page, and it's not relevant to xkcd. Why does it merit space on the main page? '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 18:56, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

== Science comic ==

Should the Science Magazine comic be added? http://m.sciencemag.org/content/342/6154/58.full [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 03:14, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
:I think that would be a great idea. Could there be other copyright rules when the comic has been published on Science? It there anyway to find out if Randall also has a link to it from (or has it on) xkcd? As he has done with the other [[:Category:Extra_Comics|Extra_Comics]]. And how do we create such a page, if there can be no link directly to xkcd (at the top of the comic)? --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:24, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

== "what if?" section? ==

I would like to start a new "what if?" section explaining and discussing what if pages.--[[User:17jiangz1|17jiangz1]] ([[User talk:17jiangz1|talk]]) 06:08, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
:Why does it need to exist? The main xkcd comic needs it, because Randall tends to be obtuse at times, but the what if articles are sourced and written out already. Supposedly, they're already explanations to questions sent in to Randall. Why do we need to explain explanations? '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 06:29, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
::Explaining them indeed seems unnecessary, but we could certainly catalog and summarize them. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 16:38, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
::The images on what if? also have title texts that could further be explained, and we could organize what if pages by categories, as well as provide summaries. There are also subtle references, running gags, and in-jokes in What If? that should be explained.--[[User:17jiangz1|17jiangz1]] ([[User talk:17jiangz1|talk]]) 08:44, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
::This https://what-if.xkcd.com/120/ is a example of a what if that could do with some explanations.--[[User:17jiangz1|17jiangz1]] ([[User talk:17jiangz1|talk]]) 08:47, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
:::That's one of 135 what-ifs, and it's entirely self referential and can be figured out by reading the rest of the archive. The substance of the majority of pages is going to be incredibly thin, Randall doesn't tend to leave much for explanation. Comics that are simple one-shot images are our least used pages for good reason, and the what-if images pretty much all fall into that category, or are used to illustrate Randall's point that he makes in the immediately preceding paragraph. We could archive/catalog all the what-if pages and be a second archive button for the series, though there's a little less value to that than the archiving we did for [[Time]] and [[Externalities]] because there's already an archive along the same lines on the main site. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 19:14, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
::::I think the main value we could add is a summary (TL;DR style) of each entry, in a short Q&A format. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 12:13, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
If we are going forward with this, is there anyway to find the date in which the what if was first published?--[[User:17jiangz1|17jiangz1]] ([[User talk:17jiangz1|talk]]) 09:01, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
:At the bottom of the page, there's an archive button. Click that. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 19:14, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
Well, fact is, the [[what if?]] page is much, '''much''' larger now. [[User:Nk22|Nk22]] ([[User talk:Nk22|talk]]) 11:52, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
:Thank you, Nk22! I've added a link from the [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/explain_xkcd About explain xkcd] page. {{unsigned|Nealmcb}}

== Userscript ==

Hello there, just wrote a simple userscript that adds an 'Explain' button to the original xkcd.com

https://gist.github.com/magazov/934de662d60c9fb5fea9

You can run it via Greasemonkey, Tampermonkey and other similar plugins :)

[[Image:Screen_Shot_xkcd_button.png]]
{{unsigned|Magazovski}}

:Yeah, there's a few of these floating around. In the future, could you use an imgur link instead of uploading stuff like that to the wiki? Thanks. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 18:02, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

::So maybe explainxkcd should host & maintain one of them? --[[User:Magazovski|Magazovski]] ([[User talk:Magazovski|talk]]) 09:30, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
:::Why would we host an image hosting site? '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 23:17, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
::::He means we could host and maintain a userscript to help our fans get here from xkcd.... [[User:Nealmcb|Nealmcb]] ([[User talk:Nealmcb|talk]]) 14:36, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
:::::Hum, that's not a bad idea. I'll put it on the list of things to do. Although, if they're already here, why do they need a userscript to help them get here? '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 00:34, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
::::::For people who mainly view the comics through the official site, but sometimes need an explanation of the comic. --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 09:23, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
:::::I've started collecting helpful tools like these on a [[Browser helpers|new page]], to hopefully make them easier for others to find. – [[User:Yfmcpxpj|Yfmcpxpj]] ([[User talk:Yfmcpxpj|talk]]) 00:29, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

== Updating the incomplete comic of the day ==

Currently, I think the incomplete comic of the day should be changed more often (i.e. daily), since the incomplete comics are piling up, and most users aren't seeing the notice, as it is dismissible.--[[User:17jiangz1|17jiangz1]] ([[User talk:17jiangz1|talk]]) 11:40, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

:While I agree that the comic of the day could be changed more often, I wouldn't say that the incomplete comics are ''piling up''. Over the months I've been active here, the number of incomplete comics had fallen considerably. In fact if you check the comics which are still marked as incomplete, most of them are one where a significant effort would be required to complete them. For example the large comics (Money, Time, Congress) or dynamic comics (Externalities, Click & Drag, Pixels). --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 15:32, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
::Yeah. Of the 15 incomplete "pages," only 10 of them are actual comics that need the attention, and the full count is still dropping. I've been keeping it on single comics as of late because the remaining actual incomplete comics have been cycled through ~3 times already, with no significant effort made on them, because they're such monumental pieces of work. Making the message dismissable is by design, we are a service first and foremost, we're not trying that hard to make visitors do our work for us. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 23:17, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

== Infrequently recurring minor charachters ==

Should we just group all of the characters that are not of enough significance to warrant their own character page into a single page (i.e. [[Other Minor Characters]])? --{{User:17jiangz1/signature|02:58, 09 May 2015}}
:See comic [[1000]] for a sample of what this entails. Also, what value to we stand to provide by cataloging every unique character that has appeared in xkcd? Does it help us explain the comics any better? '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 11:32, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

== Comic page creation ==

Is comic page creation not automated? If it isn't, then [[Help talk:How to add a new comic explanation]] should be created.--{{User:17jiangz1/signature|14:19, 26 May 2015}} 14:19, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

:Comic explanation was, at one point, automated. However, the bot ran on a schedule, and so sometimes there would be a few hours between a new comic being posted and the page getting created. Some editors just can't wait that long, so they do the bot's work before the bot even gets going. I agree that this page should be created and be kept up to date. Historically no one has read any of the help pages I've written. ;p [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]]_a ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 17:42, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

:However, I think that the page should be [[Help:Comic Explanation Page Creation]]. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]]_a ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 17:43, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

== Re-proposing merging Cueball and Rob ==

Okay, so this was previously [[http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/explain_xkcd:Community_portal/Proposals#Merge_Cueball_.26_Rob discussed] but I felt that it was worth bringing up again. Really, at this point, there's no logical reason why the two should not be merged, or Megan and Cutie should be un-merged. Rob and Cueball clearly seem to be the same person, at least when cueball appears as a specific character. In the instances where there are multiple Cueballs, we should just refer to them as Man 1, Man 2, and so on. Can we get a vote or something this time? Yes, I understand that Cueball isn't always the same character. But neither is [[Megan]], and yet we always refer to the short black haired girl (formerly [[Cutie]]) as Megan. If that logic applies to her, it applies to Rob. It's pretty clear that Randall intended to name the character Rob, as most named Cueballs are named Rob and not Fred or something.

In short: Please don't bring nostalgia into this, it's really not relevant. Changing Cueball to Rob or Megan back to Cutie (or Cuegirl?) would have symmetry and make sense. {{unsigned ip|Sensorfire}}
:I'm ok with dumping a marginal character page that only served to add confusion to character identification in new comics, but this was a subject of contention before so we probably need to see more of people's thoughts first. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 01:03, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

:I agree: let's list the arguments for both sides, ensure that everyone agrees with the objectiveness of that listing, and then vote. If there's support for this plan, and nobody does it first, I'll take a stab at producing a first draft of the summary. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 23:57, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

:Randall is currently on a booktour. So, how about, instead of us (without the ability to read minds) arguing about his intention or who is/isn't the same character, someone go see him and ask? Then we'll know with absolute 100% certainty. [[User:WaltG123|WaltG123]] ([[User talk:WaltG123|talk]]) 04:49, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
::Randall never called either character Cueball and Cutie so of course this is not his names. Asking him would make no meaning at all. For any user of xkcd it will create lots of confusion to change the names of Megan and Cueball now. Regarding Rob he is already listed as Cueball in his category. And Cueballs have been called other names several times. Rob is just the only one that has been used a few times. I agree that it may have been wrong to call her Megan, (the name has been used like three times?) Similar it is just as wrong to call Black Hat's girlfriend [[Danish]], a nick name used once. But it is actually very nice to have a real name or at least useful name when speaking of characters. And it has also been mentioned that Cutie could be perused as a sexist name, so we should not move back to that. Well recently even [[Hairbun]] has her name changed from Hairbun girl since a user thought that was a problem given it most often was a grown woman. So I think we should stick to the solution of the previous debate and leave Cueball, Rob and Megan alone as they are! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:56, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

== Adjective phrases ==

Overwhelmed with the need to be picayune, I am compelled to point out that on the homepage there is the sentence that begins "There are a lot of comics that don't have set in stone explanations..." This sentence contains a adjective phrase which should be hyphenated thus: "set-in-stone"

Please pretend that I have said something witty here, as I am too tired to think of anything funny. {{unsigned|Gamewriter}}
:Is it actually grammatically wrong in it's current state? Huh. I guess I'll change it. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 20:42, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

::This is long after the fact, but I'll throw my two cents in on Davidy22's question. Yes, it is wrong. If the 'set in stone' phrase were after the word explanations ("explanations set in stone") it would not require hyphens, but used as an adjective before the noun ("set-in-stone explanations") it requires them. D Miller [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.41|108.162.221.41]] 18:26, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

== Update MediaWiki ==

You are currently using MediaWiki 1.19.17. It's ''really'' outdated. Maybe update to 1.26.2, the current recommended stable version? There is an [[mw:Manual:Upgrading|official guide]] for that. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.80.77|141.101.80.77]] 12:03, 24 January 2016 (UTC) (PS my IP address is wrong it's not what you think it is)

== Rename Hair Bun Girl ==

The character [[Hair Bun Girl]] was named in April 2015. There wasn't any discussion of the name at the time, so I'd like to open that discussion now please.

At present we have several other characters named after distinctive visual features: [[Ponytail]], [[Black Hat]], [[White Hat]], [[Beret Guy]], and arguably [[Hairy]] and [[Cueball]]. In all but one of those cases, the name matches the distinctive feature itself, without the addition of "guy", "girl", etc. Given the number of comics that Beret Guy is in it's probably too late to modify his name, but it's not too late for Hair Bun Girl.

Besides the consistency issue, there's also the inaccuracy of referring to a grown woman with the term "girl", particularly when the character has been presented as older than [[Megan]]. I'd really like to fix this while her number of appearances is still manageable.

The name "Hairbun" has been proposed and I think that matches really nicely with Ponytail in particular.

[[User:Jkshapiro|Jkshapiro]] ([[User talk:Jkshapiro|talk]]) 04:23, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
:As the "guy" who created the Hair Bun Girl characther, I have no objection to changing the name. I did not think about the issue with girl/woman, probably because I'm not native English speaker. (And with the Beret Guy as an example). Jkshapiro was so kind as to [[User_talk:Kynde#Hair_Bun_.22Girl.22|ask my opinion]] before starting this discussion. At first I thought that ''Hairbun'' was a little weird, but then again so is Ponytail in this context. So I '''support''' the change to '''Hairbun'''! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:06, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

I vote '''change''' Hair Bun to Hairbun and '''keep''' girl. [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 21:02, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

OK, I'm going ahead. [[User:Jkshapiro|Jkshapiro]] ([[User talk:Jkshapiro|talk]]) 02:47, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
:Well as I said I would not mind, but you cannot say you got any other to agree with you on this though. Mimek wished to keep girl... It will be a huge job to get all the instances correct, also be careful no to change those places where the talk is of a girl who has a hair bun. You cannot just change all placed with hair bun girl to Hairbun, in case is actually says the hair bun girl about a small girl who has a hair bun! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:59, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
::Seems no one cares, so I will remove the notes now. Great job Jkshapiro with changing the names. I like the new name now :-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 22:35, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

== Mobile friendly website ==

Can we get a mobile friendly version of the wiki? If we already have one, what about forwarding the main site to it when viewed on a phone? [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 20:59, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

Ditto. And/or an app. I would like to be able to keep track of which comics/explanations I have read. [[User:Calion|Calion]] ([[User talk:Calion|talk]]) 13:36, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

Install [https://m.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:MobileFrontend the MobileFrontend-extension] on the wiki. Or is it more complicated than that? [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/User:Dgbrt Dgbrt] mentions "working on a real mobile version" below, under [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/explain_xkcd:Community_portal/Proposals#Tables_vs_bold_text Tables vs bold text] [[User:Coverbe|Coverbe]] ([[User talk:Coverbe|talk]]) 15:56, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

== New categories ==

I think there may be a need to propose a standard way to decide on categories: what new ones are needed, what are the prerequisites for creating a new category, how to maintain new categories and make sure they are actually used when they apply etc. For now I have gathered all previous discussions about new categories under this section. -- [[User:Malgond|Malgond]] ([[User talk:Malgond|talk]]) 13:39, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
:I think that whenever there are more than 4-5 comics that you wish to refer to in a given explanation because they are of the same topic as the current comic, then having a category is much to prefer rather than listing 5, 6 or 7 comics. I have made several categories for these instances, for instance for sport including the most used sports. At the time being I keep them up to date. One of the things this site does so well is giving you an easy way to find a specific comic even though you cannot remember the title of any precise quotes etc. If you just have an idea of what the topic was you might find it based on the categories. In this way I do not think we can have too many categories. As long as they describe a recurring subject. Only fault is that there seems to be no way to search for a comic based on more than one category? That would be great. In some cases even only 3 comics in a category can make sense. For instance I would be sorry to see this one go [[:Category:Puts on sunglasses]] (and I did not make it!) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:09, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
::For instance I have long wished for categories that covered all the space probe related comics, particularly all those referencing the Mars rovers. So today I made them with 16 and 9 comics in them already. [[:Category:Space probes]] [[:Category:Mars rovers]]. I hope people will generally think this was a great idea! :-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:42, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
:::And [[:Category:The Lion King]]... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:47, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

There are a lot of category creation proposals scattered everywhere. This concentrated proposal list is really hard to find. [[User:ClassicalGames|ClassicalGames]] ([[User talk:ClassicalGames|talk]]) 08:54, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

=== Category: Protip ===

Anyone for adding ''Protip'' as a [[:Category:Comic series|Comic series]]. I have found five so far: [[653]], [[711]], [[1022]], [[1047]] and [[1156]]. (There are also a few comics with a protip title text.) -- [[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 10:25, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

:I think that qualifies as a recurring topic (thus worthy of a category), but not as a series, where you can see a clear sequence. In fact, [[:Category:My Hobby|My Hobby]] has the same limitation, for what I suggest it to be removed from [[:Category:Comic series]]. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 11:42, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

::Seconded. Looks general and common enough to be a category. '''[[User:Davidy22|Davidy22]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 14:57, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

:::Okay, great! Do you think that the ones with a "protip:" title text should be included? Besides, I think I might be the one responsiple for moving My Hobby from [[:Category:Comics by topic|Comics by topic]] to Comic series. I felt that all the My Hobby comics were about different topics, but maybe i've got to narrow an interpretation of the word "topic". -- [[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 15:31, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

:::: Can you link to the protip-in-title-text comics?
:::: As for My Hobby, note that categories aren't mutually exclusive. They can be in the "my hobby" topic, and each of them further categorized as appropriate: music, math, etc. Makes sense? --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 03:45, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
:::: I just searched for protip in the xkcd search bar. Here: [[1084]], [[427]]. And yes, makes sense. I've moved My Hobby back to "by topic". -- [[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 12:06, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

=== Category: Sports ===

How about creating a new "Sports" category? [[User:Ekedolphin|Ekedolphin]] ([[User talk:Ekedolphin|talk]]) 15:31, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
:Well, maybe. Everyone aren't so keen on new categories here. Which comics are you thinking of, for a start? –[[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 20:32, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
::We definitely need to reach an agreement as a community on when to create new categories. Something simple like a minimum of 3 (or, say, 5) existing comics. Since we're already at the proposals' portal... what do you guys think about that? --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 21:44, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
:::My opinion: Five would be enough to qualify. [[User:Ekedolphin|Ekedolphin]] ([[User talk:Ekedolphin|talk]]) 09:31, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
::::I vote for four. But it should also be a reasonable thing to categorize, like sports, not like "sports with Cueball containing at least three anagram words". Wich sholdn't be a problem. :) But the best name choice could be tricky sometimes. e.g. "Film & television", Film & TV", "Film", "Films", or "Movies"? –[[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 12:59, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
:::
::::Agreed, five should be enough to create the category without having to discuss it. - [[User:Cos|Cos]] ([[User talk:Cos|talk]]) 00:50, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
: OK, let's start with [[588: Pep Rally|588]], [[1092: Michael Phelps|1092]], [[904: Sports|904]] and [[1107: Sports Cheat Sheet|1107]]. Should be able to find a few more. [[User:Ekedolphin|Ekedolphin]] ([[User talk:Ekedolphin|talk]]) 05:00, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
::Yeah, it's a broad subject so there are probably several more. -[[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 12:59, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
:::I found another one, sort of, in [[929]] (although it hasn't been explained yet). Should I get the ball rolling (no pun intended) on setting up the category? Don't wanna do it unilaterally and get yelled at. ;) [[User:Ekedolphin|Ekedolphin]] ([[User talk:Ekedolphin|talk]]) 06:18, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
::::I think you should. On a wiki, getting stuck in discussions which die without a conclusion, to the point that motivated people give up without having done anything, is definitely counter-productive, and phrases like [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Be bold|Wikipedia:Be bold]] are here to remind us of that. Seems like people agreed that you ''could'', and after a while nobody said that you ''shouldn't'', so I'd say do it. - [[User:Cos|Cos]] ([[User talk:Cos|talk]]) 00:50, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
:I did it without looking here first, because it was obvious there were many [[:Category:Sport|sport comics]]. I have even created four under categories (only one was there before, Chess). There are 10 comics at present that are related to other sports than the five under categories. And given the way Randall thinks about sport (not very much) he still has plenty of comics about the subject. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 07:33, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

=== Category: Sex ===

I think we should also create a Sex category. There's no ''doubt'' we can find more than three examples. I'll start looking for them and post the ones I find in here; again, I don't wanna create a large category by myself without community consent. [[User:Ekedolphin|Ekedolphin]] ([[User talk:Ekedolphin|talk]]) 09:20, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
*OK, the ones for Category: Sex that I've found so far are [[443]], [[219]], [[550]], [[1026]], [[575]], [[468]], [[592]], [[320]], [[1101]], [[417]], [[713]], [[672]], [[230]], [[436]], [[940]], [[532]], [[649]], [[176]], [[1006]], [[596]] and [[717]], and I'm sure there are many more. Should we create this category? [[User:Ekedolphin|Ekedolphin]] ([[User talk:Ekedolphin|talk]]) 23:17, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

:Same as [[#Category: Sports|above]], do it. Oh, already did; well, all the better. - [[User:Cos|Cos]] ([[User talk:Cos|talk]]) 00:53, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

=== Category: Flowcharts ===

Hello, the line "Randall has made use of flowcharts before." in today's comic explanation made me want a [[:Category:Flowcharts|flowcharts category]] to navigate into...

As it didn't exist, I proceeded to create it, but as the log says, [[User:lcarsos|lcarsos]] deleted such a category in November, saying ''"Insufficient differentiation from Category:Comics with charts, diluting the depth of comics tagged charts"''.

I don't agree with that, and I think we could profit from such a subcategory. I found those pages fitting it:
* [[94: Profile Creation Flowchart]]
* [[210: 90's Flowchart]]
* [[488: Steal This Comic]]
* [[627: Tech Support Cheat Sheet]]
* [[844: Good Code]]
* [[851: Na]]
* [[854: Learning to Cook]]
* [[1195: Flowchart]]

So? - [[User:Cos|Cos]] ([[User talk:Cos|talk]]) 10:59, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
:Weell if you're willing to take charge of the category and personally make sure it's added to all relevant comic explanations, go ahead. The usual objection to making new categories is that we admins can't remember all the categories when we're reviewing new explanations, but it's K if you're willing to take up that responsibility yourself. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 11:17, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
:
:: OK. I did it without waiting for further replies, because I think it will be especially profitable today (to viewers).
:: It doesn't seem a big issue to me if the correct category is not added when a new explanation is made: a passing editor will do it later on... But hey, I'm OK with taking special care of adding pages to this category.
:: [[User:Cos|Cos]] ([[User talk:Cos|talk]]) 12:28, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

::: I just want to add that Cos' view is indeed the appropriate way to work in wikis: there is no concept of a single author for a page, category, or piece of text, and the workload is meant to be distributed among several editors: it is not necessary that any single editor remembers all existing categories, or knows the wiki markup by heart, or knows how to work with all the features of mediawiki, etc. The reason why wikis can be edited by anyone is precisely a recognition that there *will* be errors and any page can be improved somehow. That reasoning against categories should, IMO, be abandoned, or at most only kept as the opinion of some editors. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 22:00, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Isnt there a page which lists all the categories? If not, there should be one, and it should be accessible to all. Such a page could be useful when trying to quick-add categories to comics. [[Special:Contributions/117.194.83.155|117.194.83.155]] 13:43, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
:Yes, there is. [[Special:Categories]]. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 14:07, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
::Of course, there's a gazillion of 'em, over several pages, so I understand any reluctance to add new categories (having just suggested a new one myself which I feel is justified, but knowing that the upkeep needed may be the key point of contention so remaining philosophical about it).
::A solution perhaps to carry over from another locale that I frequent is to have a "Categories of Character" page, a "Categories of Object" one, perhaps "Categories of Event", and a "Categories of Publication". For each new comic someone can easily check the shorter Character categories list against those present, the Object list against itemsin use, Events, etc, and of course the Publication one has the "Tuesday Comic"/equivalent, and other date-based ones (although isn't that automatic from templated creation? ...never added a comic, but would imagine it is). After that it's a trawl through the miscelania categories (perhaps a meta-category just for them?). But, yeah, a lot of work to set up. Wouldn't wish it on anyone who wasn't already willing to do it, and I remain an anon-IP person right now so can hardly commit ''myself'' as volunteer maintainer of this. [[Special:Contributions/178.98.31.27|178.98.31.27]] 17:20, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

=== Category: (Barred/banned from?) Conferences ===

I come here after realising I erroneously posted (in reply) to the Main page Talk, being anonymous (or at least IP-only) and without a list of qualifying articles to support me, just yet, but still wish to put forward the above category before I forget. There's no apparent equivalent, that I found, but it's definitely a recurring meme. I should be back (named or otherwise) with my suggested list of members, if someone else doesn't get there first, but I thought I'd start with the placemarker. [[Special:Contributions/178.98.31.27|178.98.31.27]] 16:41, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
:Ok, so I got the bee in my bonnet and spent a few minutes actually looking into this. Revising "Barred from Conferences" (actually more often "Banned" or even "Thrown out of"/equivalent) to just "Conferences", the subset of comics that I can easily find that are involved is *[[153]], *[[177]], *[[365]], *[[410]], *[[463]], *[[541]], [[545]], [[685]], [[829]] and [[867]], but I'm sure there are more recent ones that I didn't spot/recall. One alternative title to "Conferences" is "Presentations", and I'm sure if I'd searched for that I'd have found more potential candidates (less some that might ''exit'' the renamed category). The asterisked ones ''do'' deal with being barred/banned/thrown out/etc, making it still a suitable category in its own right, IMO, but I'll leave it up to your combined musings to decide. [[Special:Contributions/178.98.31.27|178.98.31.27]] 17:07, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
::I add [[690]] to the list. --[[User:Chtz|Chtz]] ([[User talk:Chtz|talk]]) 08:12, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

::: Great suggestions! I created [[:Category:Public speaking]] and [[:Category:Banned from conferences]]. I also added [[Wikipedian Protester]] to the mix, of course :) --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 21:59, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

=== Category: Wishes ===

[http://explainxkcd.com/1391/ Several] [http://explainxkcd.com/1086/ comics] [http://explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/152:_Hamster_Ball now] [http://xkcd.com/879/ exist] that talk about wishes - probably more. Should there be a category for this? [[User:Z|Z]] ([[User talk:Z|talk]]) 23:22, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
:Doesn't seem significant enough. If you promise to maintain the category you can make it yourself, although it will be cleared out if it gets neglected as new comics are released. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 15:20, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

=== Category: Artificial Intelligence ===

Hello world.

There are a handful of comics involving Ai - [[1540]], [[1530]], [[1450]] and [[948]] for instance - and maybe it's an idea to give them their own category {{unsigned|Nk22}}

:The usual objection to new categories is that they get abandoned and are too narrow for other people to think of picking them up. If you're going to own it and update it with new comics, you can make it. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 21:01, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

=== Category: Size Comparisons ===
There are numerous comics comparing sizes of things. I can't get a list right now, but off the top of my head, radiation dosages, money, today's comic, and space shuttles in horses. [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 19:23, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

=== New character category for blonde woman news reporter (from 1699) ===

From today's comic [[1699: Local News]] I just got the idea that there may be needing a new category for either blonde woman and/or comics with news reports. I posted this [[Talk:1699:_Local_News#New_character_category|post]], in the talk page of that comic. Any comments, and if agreeing that there might be one or two different character categories needed then please suggest what they should be called. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:00, 27 June 2016 (UTC)
:Agree with Blondie as new character name and with adding a category for news reports. [[User:Jkshapiro|Jkshapiro]] ([[User talk:Jkshapiro|talk]]) 00:47, 28 June 2016 (UTC)
:Agree with new character category for Blondie --[[User:Lackadaisical|Lackadaisical]] ([[User talk:Lackadaisical|talk]]) 12:38, 28 June 2016 (UTC)
:: Thanks for the replies. Could be nice with a few more chipping in. One issue I just found is [[Miss Lenhart]] and ambiguous situations like in comic [[59: Graduation]], where I would remove the miss reference. But then miss would be a sub category of Blondie (or Blonde? which Randall cals the girl in 59) as [[Rob]] is for [[Cueball]]... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:07, 9 July 2016 (UTC)
:: I think blondie is fine for a name. Miss Lenhart is another character who uses a similar design so I think treating her like Rob is perfectly acceptable. The only thing more I think we should discuss is the role blondie plays in most of the comics (Like how cueball is an everyman, whitehat is often a strawman, Blackhat is blackhat etc.) [[User:Lackadaisical|Lackadaisical]] ([[User talk:Lackadaisical|talk]]) 12:04, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
:::There are also these two that looks like Blondie: [[Mrs. Roberts]] or her daughter [[Elaine Roberts]]. I think this is part of why no one has made the category, as there are already three named women with the same hair. But there are so many other comics with this kind of woman, that I think she should be created. I hope I will get the time, but if anyone has any other ideas than just calling them "Blondie" and letting the other three be an subcategory like Rob is of Cueball then say so now before anyone creates Blondie. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 11:19, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
:::Agree with new character category and characters with the same appearance as sub-categories [[User:Lackadaisical|Lackadaisical]] ([[User talk:Lackadaisical|talk]]) 18:04, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

Based on the discussion she is now called [[Blondie]] --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 07:27, 10 September 2016 (UTC)
 And now there is also a [[:Category:News anchor]] with 15 entries already. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 10:22, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

=== Business Plan category ===

I propose renaming [[:Category:Beret Guy's Business]] into Business Plans, and adding it to [[1721: Business Idea]] [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 08:15, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
::(Note I added a ":" to your category link to show the link instead of adding this page to the category. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 10:43, 10 September 2016 (UTC))
:No of course not, that comic is about [[Cueball]]. This is Beret Guy's business we are talking about here. This category is not about business idea but about what [[Beret Guy]] does just like the page with [[:Category:Strange powers of Beret Guy]]. Both are used in the explanation of who he is. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 10:43, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

=== Category for The Little Prince? ===

How many comics need to feature/mention a certain thing before we need a category? I think there are enough featuring the Little Prince to deserve a Category of its own. {{unsigned|AmbroseChapel|06:57, 29 September 2017 (UTC)}}

===Category: Katamari Damacy ===

There are quite a few comics about this game. [[User:DPS2004|DPS2004]] ([[User talk:DPS2004|talk]])

=== "Multiple Megan-like characters" category ===

Since there are more than one Megan-like characters appear in the same panel of at least seven comics, I propose to create the "Multiple Megan-like characters" category. --[[User:Soumya-8974|Soumya-8974]] ([[User talk:Soumya-8974|talk]]) 07:04, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

=== Category: Mycology ===

6 comics so far reference mycology/mushrooms. I might be a bit biased, but there's other categories like butterfly nets that have the same amount of comics. Also, destroying angels are a huge part of the What-If chapter (book-exclusive) about losing your DNA. It should probably be a subcategory under Biology.

Here is the list (what I found so far at least):

[[2307]] - fungi on the chart

[[2246]] - fungi in the title text

[[1991]] - mycology is a subject on the chart

[[1904]] - see above

[[1749]] - comic is about mushrooms

[[1664]] - comic is about mycology [[User:Mushrooms|Mushrooms]] ([[User talk:Mushrooms|talk]]) 07:23, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
:Eh sure if you're keen enough on it '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 08:30, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

=== Discord category ===
Do we need categories for comics that mention various popular social media clients, such as Google and Discord? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.134.98|172.69.134.98]] 03:29, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
:If there are a group of them, then list them, then they can be added. I can think of a couple of Google-related ones (well, Google search-page, not whatever Alphabet is currently doing insofar as social media), but don't have their names/numbers in my head right now. Do the search and list them here for someone to catalogue up?
:I'm not sure there are specific Discord mentions. Noting that just because some unidentified headshot dialogue/notification looks Discordish, it doesn't make it a mention. Too much cross-pollination of appearance. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.252|172.70.90.252]] 09:56, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

=== Category: Versions ===

I've noticed that a recurring subject in xkcd is comics which list versions of a real thing, only some of which are real. Closer to the end of the list, the versions get more and more crazy.

Here are some examples I've found:
* [[2719: Hydrogen Isotopes]]
* [[2172: Lunar Cycles]]
* [[2860: Decay Modes]]
* [[2369: All-in-One]]
* [[2924: Pendulum Types]]
* [[2614: 2]]
* [[2816: Types of Solar Eclipse]]

Let me know if you have any objections or suggestions for this category. Thanks! [[User:PDesbeginner|PDesbeginner]] ([[User talk:PDesbeginner|talk]]) 14:30, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

Another example: [[2848: Breaker Box]]

=== Category: Ghosts ===

I've also noticed several comics featuring ghosts, but not Ghostbusters. These could become a category, and maybe Ghostbusters could become a sub-category of it.

Here are some examples:
* [[1108: Cautionary Ghost]]
* [[2836: A Halloween Carol]]
* [[1393: Timeghost]]

Let me know if you have any objections or suggestions for this category. Thanks! [[User:PDesbeginner|PDesbeginner]] ([[User talk:PDesbeginner|talk]]) 16:49, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

::Nice proposal. I'd proposed a category "infernal" for all things demonic and hell-related (some demon strips are not in hell; some hell strips do not have demons). There is already a "religion" category. Could we maybe shift them all to a "supernatural/mythological" category and then allow for subcategories? {{unsigned ip|172.71.90.85|21:12, 5 November 2024}}

::Great suggestion! Perhaps "Infernal" could be a subcategory of both "Supernatural/Mythological" and "Religion"? [[User:PDesbeginner|PDesbeginner]] ([[User talk:PDesbeginner|talk]]) 19:26, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
::Hang on, it seems that someone else has already created [[:Category:Ghosts]]. [[User:PDesbeginner|PDesbeginner]] ([[User talk:PDesbeginner|talk]]) 20:34, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

=== Category: Comics with Hidden Images ===

There are a couple of comics I've read that have hidden images in them. They are [[1000: 1000 Comics]] and [[1213: Combination Vision Test]]. This might seem small, but I think it should be a category. [[User:PDesbeginner|PDesbeginner]] ([[User talk:PDesbeginner|talk]]) 20:20, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

=== Category: Crystal spheres ===

Three comics that I have read ([[2121: Light Pollution]], [[2765: Escape Speed]], and [[1189: Voyager 1]]) mention or include crystal spheres. [[User:PDesbeginner|PDesbeginner]] ([[User talk:PDesbeginner|talk]]) 16:50, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

=== "I Got Fired From"-type category ===
I think that to improve this website, you should add a category that contains only the i got fired from the <x> because i did <y>.

does this exist already or did someone already propose this idea? Im pretty new to this website, so can someone pls tell me?

thank you {{unsigned|I HAVE NO NAME2|07:17, 21 August 2024 (UTC)}}
:It has been suggested, but doesn't hurt to propose it (properly!) somewhere like here. It helps if you state the candidate articles for which it would initially be used. (I'm aware of two, but having a third or more would be useful - very easily to draw an arbitrary line through any two points, without there being any actual real trend between those points or any other points to match that line.)
:And welcome. You're new and have been adding minor comments to many article Talk pages, I notice (as well as other edits). Do note that it really doesn't need you to 'tag' every page you read, but it looks like your heart is in the right place and so if you perhaps ease yourself more into the wiki I'm sure you'll make further valuable contributions. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.35|172.70.90.35]] 10:37, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
:(Addendum - did not realise you were using [[User:I HAVE NO NAME2]], not [[User:I HAVE NO NAME]] just now when I corrected your contribution. If you're the same person, then my comments stand but you are going to create confusion. But still all the best to you. If you're ''not'' the same person, the general sentiment still applies.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.62|172.70.91.62]] 10:55, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

=== News Category ===

I propose that we add a News category, as proposed by user Ok123. There’s a news anchor category, but we can put news anchor under this category and include comics about newspapers, such as [[750: Book Burning]] and [[1062: Budget News]] [[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]] ([[User talk:42.book.addict|talk]]) 20:53, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

=== Category: Thought Experiments ===

I'd like a category for CLASSICAL thought experiments, including {{w|Schrödinger's cat}}, {{w|Maxwell's Demon}}, and the {{w|Trolley Problem}}. A good list of examples is available halfway down the Wiki article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_experiment#Examples . I'm highlighting "classical" because enough of the XKCD strips could constitute original thought experiments in their own right. I'll start searching now and will post a list of a few qualifying comics shortly. Sorry about the IP address. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.103.68|172.71.103.68]] 18:48, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
:[[45]], [[1016]], [[857]], [[384]], [[1233]], [[1465]]. [[1925]], [[1938]], [[3006]]... (Just based on a quick search. There are loads more. Bonus points for the term "Gedankedank"). {{unsigned ip|172.71.98.42|18:57, 3 November 2024 (UTC)}}

== Adding Ratings for Explanations ==

I found [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1652 today's explanation] excellently written however that is not always the case. Frequently explanations are walk through of the conversation that are too wordy without any succinct explanation of why or how a strip is funny -- while many of those low quality explanations are not strictly "incomplete" they could benefit from a careful rewrite. I was wondering if we should add a rating tool such as " ''Was this explanation helpful? yes/no'' " so as to identify explanation that could benefit from improvement without having to be tagged as "incomplete". [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 17:57, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
:We have a rather prominent discussion page for feedback, do we really need an additional add-on for this? I did a little research and found that other wikis use [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Semantic_Rating semantic rating] and [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ArticleRatings article ratings], which I can install if enough other users want it. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 05:54, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

== New Speculation Sections ==

I often see a lot of speculation and conjecture within the explanation of the comic itself. I don't think it has any place in the explanation but I know many editors enjoy speculating and interpreting the comic and the meaning behind it so I've decided to start this discussion on whether we should provide a section where we can provide different speculations.

What I am thinking would not be like the discussion page, where comments are made and discussed, but an edited and reviewed section which outlines different speculations and interpretations of the comics themselves and perhaps even the author's intent.

Of course tone and presentation should be held to the same standards of the comic explanation but I think this would be a good way to better organize a review of the comic.

I have been away too long to remember if there are any comic explanations with something like this so I have no idea how well it would work.

As an example;

This part from comic 1642: [[Gravitational Waves]]

" It seems that Randall knew in advance about this announcement because this comic was published on a Thursday, not following the normal publish schedule, to coincide with the announcement "

Is well supported, and rather likely correct, conjecture which belongs in the body of the explanation because not only is it backed by strong evidence but it provides background on the comic and the time in which the comic was released and aids in understanding the comic itself.

However, this part from comic 478: [[The Staple Madness]]

"From just reading the comic by itself, one may presume that in the last panel, Cueball has been stapled to the ceiling (as obvious evidence to Megan that Beret Guy has indeed been abusing her staple gun). According to the comic's official transcript, however, it is in fact God who is speaking."

Is almost as equally well supported and certainly a valid interpretation of simply the comic. It is only refuted by the official transcript. I believe it is important to acknowledge and may even be a more humorous interpretation than the one which is provided by the official transcript.

If we added a speculation section (or something of the sort) then we would have a place to talk about this interpretation more freely and expound upon it more.

[[User:Lackadaisical|Lackadaisical]] ([[User talk:Lackadaisical|talk]]) 15:16, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
: Problem is the whole "explanation" is actually conjecture. None of us the author, we're all just guessing. [[User:Jkshapiro|Jkshapiro]] ([[User talk:Jkshapiro|talk]]) 15:23, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

: Many of the current explanations are conjecture, that's true but not every explanation. Providing information on the science or mathematics behind a particular comic is not conjecture. Stating whether the author intended to belittle the field or state that one field is superior over another (unless fairly explicitly stated) is. And there are many things which can be inferred without being simple speculation. Not every comic would need a section like this, and not every comic needs a trivia section, and I'm not ready to start adding this proposed section myself. But I think it should be considered. [[User:Lackadaisical|Lackadaisical]] ([[User talk:Lackadaisical|talk]]) 15:35, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
::The intention of the discussion pages was to serve as a place for people to put their conjecture and reaching interpretations of the comics. They're presented alongside the explanation to make people's interpretations more readily visible. Some people may have trouble distinguishing an ungrounded interpretation of a comic from an explanation of it, and they will insert weak text into explanations. If you find something you disagree with, feel free to bring it up in the discussion section and edit it out of the explanation liberally '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 06:17, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

== Unixkcd ==

Hello everyone. I was just wondering: is there anything on http://uni.xkcd.com/. Because I was just looking and the only thing I found on Unixkcd is a mention of a bug in [[1350]]. There is not even a mention on the April fools article.
:There's nothing on this site, there's a couple of novel tidbits on the xkcd site that are at best tangentially related to the comic, as Randall originally intended to make xkcd.com his personal site for hosting his own projects. That particular one doesn't show up in any comics. Also, proposals might not be the best place to put this. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 08:46, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
::I added the unixckd information to [[721: Flatland]]. According to [https://vimeo.com/78912850 Randalls Øredev 2013 talk] unixkcd was the April Fools' prank for April 1st 2010. [[User:Condor70|Condor70]] ([[User talk:Condor70|talk]]) 09:00, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

== fix a page ==

The page Comics featuring Summer Glau is missing:
https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/526:_Converting_to_Metric {{unsigned ip|108.162.241.130}}
:Done. In the future, you can add categories yourself, just scroll to the bottom and follow the template the others go by. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 03:56, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

== New xkcd book out. ==

Any chance of posting a section of explanation pages for the cartoons in the new xkcd book, hopefully explaining some of the cryptic red notes? Thanks! {{unsigned ip|199.27.133.102}}

== Comics with header text ==

Several comic have some header text, such as [[851]] or [[1052]]. Shouldn't there be a category for them or something? I think it is quite a notable feature. [[User:Jaalenja|Jaalenja]] ([[User talk:Jaalenja|talk]]) 15:23, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
:I feel like it's not a particularly defining feature, it feels like making a category for comics that have frames with no borders or something, it's just a technique Randall uses. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 07:35, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
::To me it feels more like a second title text. It is not technically part of the comic itself, but is a separate piece of information included with it on the xkcd website. There is a category for comics without title text, this is the same, only reverse, in my humble opinion [[User:Jaalenja|Jaalenja]] ([[User talk:Jaalenja|talk]]) 07:13, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

== purpose of detailed transcripts ==

There are two styles of comic descriptions in the transcripts. Some
are fairly terse, giving only the information required to understand
the comic (e.g. "Cueball is talking to Megan, who looks excited").
Others give lots of graphic details, as if one should be able to
reconstruct the picture from the description (e.g. "Cueball, on the
left, is talking to Megan, on the right. His left hand is pointing to
her. Megan's arms are raised above her head and her excitement is
shown by short lines around her head..." and so on). The former style
used to be the norm, the latter has become increasingly
common in recent months.

Being visually impaired, I am extremely pleased with the terse style
of transcript, and have no interest in the verbose style. To me it is
useless and sometimes fairly annoying. Of course, this is a community
and I can happily live with it if others find it useful.

So, I'd like to know who needs detailed, graphical transcripts, and
for what purpose? Were they requested by some users, or did those
writing transcripts just decide to adopt this new style? If there is
a clearly identified reason for describing pictures in detail, fine.
If not, I vote for switching back to the old, terse style.

Zetfr 14:10, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

:Sorry we did not see this at the time. As we can see you finally found ears for you comment after [[1798]] and a new discussion has begun on [[User_talk:Kynde#Transcript_TLDR.3B|my user page]]. (Should probably have been here?) But anyway I'm responsible for your problems, and I will try to write less in the transcript and add "other important" either below in the trivia or below the main comic (as maybe - Detailed image description...) It was meant as a way to search for any thing in the comic if you needed it. I guess most people do not read the transcript, so of course annoying if it is not useful for those who always need to read it. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 16:21, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

== Rename Science Girl "Jill" ==

Following the Precedent of "[[Megan]]" and "[[Danish]]" (but oddly enough not [[Rob]]), I propose that we rename [[Science Girl]] Jill, as per [[1662]]. This could serve to give her an easier name and to use in cases where the character doesn't have a connection with science but seems to be the same girl. [[User:Sensorfire|Sensorfire]] ([[User talk:Sensorfire|talk]]) 18:19, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
:The only time she's called Jill is in Jack and Jill comics (of course), and the only reason you'd want to do that is since [[Randall]] displays them similarly. In some cases Science Girl is even clearly older. We might do that if there was a [[Child-Blackhaired-Ponytail]] character, but these characters are always either Science Girl or Jill. Also, Jill has very, very few appearances anyway. [[User:Jacky720|Jacky720]] ([[User talk:Jacky720|talk]]) 21:37, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

== Make an official transcript site ==
I've already taken the liberty of making {{template|transcript}}, and think we, together, can do better- which is why I'm implementing [https://jackm.000webhost.com/transcript.html this site], in order to display the official transcript in its intended format. However, it is bugged, and could do better if moved to explain xkcd. Is anyone in on this? [[User:Jacky720|Jacky720]] ([[User talk:Jacky720|talk]]) 21:36, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
:The transcript site doesn't seem to be accessible. Is the project dead? If it's not I can try to help. [[User:Errpell|Errpell]] ([[User talk:Errpell|talk]]) 21:06, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

== HTTPS Links Back to XKCD Interfere with Random Button ==

The Links back to the comics that are present just above the comic itself on the wiki pages (and adjacent to the next and previous links) provides an HTTPS link back to XKCD. However, this interferes with users who want to click that link, and then click `random` - because `c.xkcd.com` does NOT support HTTPS, and thus clicking 'random' after returning to xkcd from explainxkcd does not work. These links should be switched back to HTTP.

--[[User:9000 volts|9000 volts]] ([[User talk:9000 volts|talk]]) 21:15, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

== Rearrange for our visually impaired friends. ==

I have a great friend who is blind and he uses this site to "read" XKCD so we can talk about it. However, there are two things that he finds frustrating. The first, while it means no harm and most readers gloss over it, when listening to the content of the page every day it can become demeaning to hear "it's because you're dumb" every time. I certainly agree, I use explain XKCD because I am significantly dumb-er than Randall, but my friend uses it because he's blind. This is not that big of a deal, but a friendly suggestion.

The second suggestion is to move the transcript section to the top before the explanation so as not to spoil the content of the comic with user explanation right away--in the case that those listening to the article are in fact smart enough to get the joke before needing an explanation.

Thanks for your consideration.

== Incomplete in spotlight ==

The incomplete comic in spotlight should be changed more often, the current one is not even incomplete. [[User:Dontknow|Dontknow]] ([[User talk:Dontknow|talk]]) 16:52, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

== Duplicate Navigation tools at bottom of page (please!) ==

I'm enjoying revisiting xkcd canon through the lens of Explain, but frustrated that after studiously reading through the explanation and discussion, I have to scroll back up to the top to get to the Next button.
What would the harm be in duplicating the buttons at the foot of each page?
Thanks for considering this.
Regards

That would be nice, would help a lot. Also, please sign your comments with four tildes. [[User:Dontknow|Dontknow]] ([[User talk:Dontknow|talk]]) 19:46, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

I really would like this. And it seems simple enough to add, without seriously degrading the existing interface.
[[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.230|162.158.154.230]] 05:13, 10 January 2024 (UTC)Murray/NJ

== JSON endpoint ==
There is a [http://www.xkcd.com/info.0.json endpoint] to retrieve information about the comics on the xkcd website. However the info there is not complete, specially when it comes to the transcripts. explainxkcd should provide a similar interface. It would be very useful specially for bots/scripts. The commmunity could help completing the information on the xkcd website and/or provide a new interface. The transcript are already retrieved from this website and a copy can be found [https://github.com/nhatzHK/randi/blob/master/json/xkcd.references.json here]. If there isn't already a complete file or databse with all the information, this file could help building it. However, this document has been compiled by scraping the html of explainxkcd, so there's some errors in it. These errors can be avoid with a clear and easy to access interface like JSON, similar to what is available on the xkcd website. [[User:Errpell|Errpell]] ([[User talk:Errpell|talk]]) 20:43, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
:Maybe there is a mediawiki addon to support a JSON file. Any ideas? --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 19:08, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

== Suggestion for small improvement to interface ==
Am I the only one that wishes the Previous / Next buttons were repeated at the bottom of the page? After reading the explanation, I often want to go to the next one in sequence.
(Obviously, I don't check this wiki every day :)
Scrolling back to the top isn't hard, but having the buttons near the bottom would make navigation easier.

Hope you agree!
Murray in NJ

PS: Aha! I see others have suggested the same thing :) {{unsigned ip|162.158.75.232}}
:This was also mentioned before. I don't agree because the layout is based on the original xkcd site. '''Protip''': Do not "scroll back", just use your keyboard. The magic key is called "Home". --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 19:14, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

== mediawiki things ==

could admin please update to the latest version of mediawiki and add the [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Skin:Timeless?useskin=timeless timeless skin], thx. also would help if you added <code>line-height: 1.5em</code> to the edit box (<code>#wpTextbox1</code>) while making it taller to compensate, or added the 2010 code editor to aid readability. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.92.4|162.158.92.4]] 11:50, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

== The state of "incomplete" explanations and an unified policy ==

Hello, everybody. Recently I went through the "incomplete" explanations and I saw several problems... I think I better split this into sections.

'''1) Many seemingly old and complete explanations are marked either with various creative variations of the auto-generated tag or something along the lines of "rough draft".''' I have personally removed several incomplete tags during the last days, sometimes adding few information before doing so, but usually not. But there are so many of them and it just would not feel right to take it upon myself to reap them all, so, if anyone can spare a few minutes to quickly scan them and remove (or update, in some cases) the tags, it would be nice. Here is a list of explanations with this particular problem, for convenience: [[1874]], [[1906]], [[1908]], [[1912]], [[1915]], [[1919]], [[1925]], [[1926]], [[1929]], [[1930]], [[1937]]

1940 and 1941 also seem complete IMO, but given how recent they are, they could be given some time.

'''2) Some incomplete tags seem like abuse of the feature.''' [[1909]] is probably the best example of this. Table might be nice, but it is not necessary to explain the comic, it would be just "gilding". There is nothing wrong about perfecting complete articles, but marking an article incomplete because someone got an idea how it could be done (and is too lazy to do it themselves) should be discouraged IMO. Other examples: [[1904]] - here I actually disagree with the proposal - why should information that does not represent percentages be represented using them? - but that's my personal view. [[1895]] - this one is asking for further perfection of a perfective information. [[1688]] - a '''huge''' example, asks for something that would require quite a lot of effort without helping anyone understand the comic, a cool project, but not needed for the article to be complete. [[1701]] - I really don't think this is necessary and the explanation is already twice the size I'd expect for such simple comic (*obligatory personal opinion disclaimer*).

'''3) Some tags are just... vague.''' [[1856]] and [[1733]]. "Someone could maybe improve this" applies to pretty much everything in the universe, sorry.

'''4) A policy proposal.''' Here comes the second half of the topic title. There appear to be two conflicting schools of thoughts among editors. Some seem to prefer long, meticulously detailed explanations. Others, including myself, prefer short and concise explanations. On more than one occasion, this has led to mess, so I think there should be some official policies about what kind of information should be considered considered necessary, useful, and superfluous. Obviously, every comic is different, and defining hard rules for this is impossible, so maybe "guideline" is a better word than "policy" here. Here are some suggestions about what this guideline could contain (please, take this as a "sub-suggestion", if a guideline gets accepted, but will end up containing nothing out of this, I will still be happy):

* NECESSARY: named people, groups, organizations, websites, works of art, geographic locations etc. should be briefly introduced, unless they can be presumed to be universally known (e.g. Google, Shakespeare, New York). Obscure words should be defined. Scientific and technical terms should be explained.
* SUPERFLUOUS: recursive explanations - an explanation that mentions concepts that themselves need explaining, but were not relevant to the comic itself.

I guess that's it. Maybe a little disclaimer that I don't have much time now, so I may not be here to further lead this discussion. Maybe I should have waited with posting this when I do have time, but that may not be for a long time, so for what it's worth, here it is.
--[[User:Jaalenja|Jaalenja]] ([[User talk:Jaalenja|talk]]) 12:16, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

:Your "policy (or guideline) proposal" is that what's widely excepted here. There are some overwhelming explanations and you are welcome to help on more precise writings. But in general there is no censorship here, less important content may be moved to a trivia section below the transcript. Irrelevant content (who decides that?) may be moved to the talk page with a given reason. I'm also a fan of "short and concise explanations" but who will judge what this really is? Further more I really dislike many of those tables, it's bad layout. But changing this takes a lot of work. [[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 13:51, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

::The main reason why I want there to be an official policy is so the process of marking explanations as complete can be more straightforward. There would be a community-approved list of things an explanation needs to contain, if an explanation has all that, it is complete. Of course there would still be lot of room for interpretation because every comic is different and coming up with rules that fit all is impossible, but I believe this could still be a massive improvement over the current state.
::Also, '''please''', when I say something is merely a sub-suggestion, I mean it. Your reply gives me the feeling you understood my proposal as something along the lines of "We should make it an official policy that explanations should look like this:", whereas it was more along the lines of "There should be an official policy about what explanations should contain. Here is an example of what such policy could maybe look like:" [[User:Jaalenja|Jaalenja]] ([[User talk:Jaalenja|talk]]) 06:49, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
:::In general I don't think this is a big issue. The vast majority (99%) of the comics is ''not'' marked as incomplete and those you are citing here should be discussed at the corresponding talk pages. Thus I don't see a ''massive improvement'' anyway.
:::However we can enhance the proper section at the [[explain xkcd:Editor FAQ|Editor FAQ]] by one or two concise sentences. But when you say ''"There should be..."'' nothing would happen; that's why I say: ''"We should make it"''. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 09:36, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

== Tables vs bold text ==

There are many, many, many comics with several things mentioned in the comic that need to be individually explained, and there are two ways we can do it, one being tables (for example: [[1930: Calendar Facts]]), the other being using bold text to separate paragraphs into sections (for example: [[1972: Autogyros]]). The thing is for the most cases, it seems like we should be using tables, but then using bold text to seperate paragraphs looks better, and is also easier... So when should we use tables, and when bold text? [[User:Herobrine|Herobrine]] ([[User talk:Herobrine|talk]]) 12:20, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
:IMHO we have far too much tables - a structured floating text is much easier to read. Consider this:
:*A ''List of all planets in our solar'' system with a few columns for distance (in km, mi, and AU), size, and temperature. That's a classical table.
:*The table in [[1930: Calendar Facts]] contains far too much text in many cells. Try to read this on a smartphone. And furthermore on my ''Google Chrome for Android'' all the tables from this comic are not shown at all when using the ''Simplified View''.
:*Or compare this: [[1363: xkcd Phone]] and [[1549: xkcd Phone 3]]. I prefer the floating text and even more when I'm using a mobile device.
:But that's only my opinion.
:Nevertheless I'm also working on a real mobile version of this Wiki (similar to Wikipedia) and that will require some restrictions to the layout to get it properly rendered. But this will not happen before the FIFA World Cup 2018 is over ;) --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 13:17, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
::Agreed. Narrow columns with simple facts are ok, but longer text should not be put in a table. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 10:15, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
::: I second this. [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 11:22, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
::::Please check also this new [[explain xkcd:Editor FAQ|Editor FAQ]] and the belonging talk page. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 13:04, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
::Any updates? (Why) is it not just a matter of installing [https://m.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:MobileFrontend the MobileFrontend-extension]? :) (See also above: [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/explain_xkcd:Community_portal/Proposals#Mobile_friendly_website Mobile friendly website]) [[User:Coverbe|Coverbe]] ([[User talk:Coverbe|talk]]) 16:01, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

== Add the comic to the edit page ==

While editing the explanation, it would be nice to be able to see the comic on that same page, especially for the transcript. (it's difficult for mobile editors to see two pages at once)
:Please sign your comments, and that’s not possible from what I know, considering how this website is set up. (I can still edit fine on mobile) [[User:Netherin5|Netherin5]] ([[User talk:Netherin5|talk]]) 13:49, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

== Dark theme/night mode ==

Should I explain this?

It's for all of us who edit the wiki at 1am and like our retinas.

Firefox has a [https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/dark-theme-enhanced/?src=recommended Dark Theme Extension], and it looks pretty good on the Wiki. [https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/dark-theme-for-google-chr/annfbnbieaamhaimclajlajpijgkdblo Chrome does too], but I haven't tried it out.

== Change dates to match ISO 8601. ==

Can we change the timestamps to match [[1179: ISO 8601]]? I'm surprised this hasn't been suggested earlier [[User:9yz|9yz]] ([[User talk:9yz|talk]]) 20:33, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

== Add bookmark ==

I have used some simple javascript to create a bookmarklet that automatically opens the wiki-page of the xkcd page that you are reading. I would like to provide it on the wiki. It works as follows.

1. Make a bookmark, give it a recognizable name.
2. For the url, enter the following: javascript: document.location = document.URL.replace('xkcd.com','explainxkcd.com');
3. Create the bookmark. To use it, open any xkcd page and click it to go to the corresponding wiki page.

Thanks for considering.
[[User:Kwonunn|Kwonunn]] ([[User talk:Kwonunn|talk]]) 18:27, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

:Thanks Kwonunn! I've started collecting these helpful tools on a [[Browser helpers|new page]], to hopefully make them easier for others to find. – [[User:Yfmcpxpj|Yfmcpxpj]] ([[User talk:Yfmcpxpj|talk]]) 01:30, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

== Regarding using facebook like and google captcha - Privacy concerns ==

Considering that they track users across various sites, it is not in the best interests of the users' privacy.

https://complianz.io/google-recaptcha-and-the-gdpr-a-possible-conflict/ - This article explains the issues better than I can.

Especially the users who use VPNs affected more - it takes noticeably longer and more tries to pass the google captcha. Preventing/dis-incentivizing new contributors from behind a VPN. There is anecdotal evidence (in the form of reddit posts) that google captcha discriminates firefox users and allow chrome users to get simpler challenges or none at all.

The Facebook like button is an iframe. Users visiting this page(s) have not explicitly consented to being tracked by facebook and google.

I am speculating here, but from the amount of data these two items are gathering, it seems possible to de-anonymize the users who are behind a vpn. I don't trust either of these companies to not grab the free data. In the article listed above, it seems captcha alone can capture a screenshot of the pages without users' (explicit) consent. I haven't read through all the privacy and terms.

Captcha is necessary for avoiding spam. There are alternatives. Anything but google one should suffice. Regarding the facebook like button, I think that should be replaced by a link to the facebook page. {{unsigned ip|172.68.38.88}}
:I think this can be done only by admins, who are currently absent from this wiki. However regarding the Captcha, there is an easy fix: Register here, and log into your account (an one-time e-mail address is sufficient, if you are worried about your privacy). Also please sign your comments to talk pages and other discussions (such as this) - It will not show the IP related to you/your VPN, but one from cloudfare, so it will also not hurt your privacy, but automatically put a timestamp, etc.

:A different CAPTCHA is definitely needed. In my harded version of Firefox Google ReCAPTCHAs won't even work, so I need to open a different profile to edit Explain xkcd. [[User:CyanDinosaurDuck|CyanDinosaurDuck]] ([[User talk:CyanDinosaurDuck|talk]]) 22:21, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

== Removing unnecessary 3-comic categories? ==

I count eight categories on explainxkcd that satisfy the following properties: 1. They have only three comics in them. 2. They aren't really a comic series; they just feature or reference a comic theme. 3. They aren't Featuring some person or character. In short, they seem to have no real reason to exist. (They're [[:Category:Spice_Girls|t]][[:Category:Wind_turbine|h]]e[[:Category:Ender%27s_Game|s]]o[[:Category:FernGully|n]][[:Category:Giraffes|e]]s.) So my proposal: remove them. -[[User:Account|Account]] ([[User talk:Account|talk]]) 20:37, 9 November 2019 (UTC)
:In addition, there are [[:Category:Sketches|t]][[:Category:BSD|h]][[:Category:Emacs|i]][[:Category:Identity_Theft|r]][[:Category:Katamari_Damacy|t]][[:Category:Super_Bowl|e]][[:Category:The_Matrix|e]][[:Category:Tournament_bracket|n]][[:Category:Traffic_light| ]][[:Category:Trebuchet|m]][[:Category:Wingsuit|o]][[:Category:Euler_diagrams|r]][[:Category:Pedantic|e]] four-comic categories that also seem rather in need of deletion.
:: Shouldn't the community at least have some time to expand on these categories, in case they're currently incomplete? For example, [[:Category:The Matrix]] is on your list and now contains 7 strips, and [[:Category:Tournament bracket]] got its 5th entry after your post. Even if they're not, a theme category can save some typing in the search box (and is probably also cheaper in terms of server resources than all the searches it'll eliminate). [[User:Promethean|Promethean]] ([[User talk:Promethean|talk]]) 22:43, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
:::So what do you think the limit should be for categories? Should we create a category when two comics mention the same topic? Three? --[[User:Account|Account]] ([[User talk:Account|talk]]) 16:28, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
::::Three seems reasonable to me, and I could see a case being made for two. Categories aren't expensive. [[User:Promethean|Promethean]] ([[User talk:Promethean|talk]]) 00:17, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

== New transcript ==

The transcripts in the comic pages are quite inconsistent, especially in the brackets where you have to describe what happens in the panels. If I understand correctly, the transcripts are for people to copy the text in the comic without having to type them out. If that's the case, then I think propose a new transcript. This transcript should have the comic with the words erased, and then the copy-pasteable words on top of that. Such a transcript would have no room for error, which would let anyone contribute to a seamless transcript.
:The aim of the transcript is to provide a text-only version of the comic that would allow someone who is visually impaired to use a text-to-speech converter to understand the comic and also in a machine readable format for searching (see the [[explain_xkcd:Editor_FAQ#What_is_the_format_of_the_transcript_section?|Editor FAQ]]). Anything using mark-up, images or anything other than plain text will interfere with this and so should be avoided in the transcript. [[User:A(l)Chemist|AlChemist]] ([[User talk:A(l)Chemist|talk]]) 18:22, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

== Add title text and heading to transcript section ==

It has always bothered me that the transcript did not include the title text since it contributes so much to the humor of the comics. Also, it looks to me like the comic heading is sometimes included as part of the transcript and sometimes left out. I checked the previous proposals and did not see any discussion of these issues. Please consider having a policy going forward of including the heading and the title text within the transcript. [[User:Rtanenbaum|Rtanenbaum]] ([[User talk:Rtanenbaum|talk]]) 22:43, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
:To my understanding (and also others, see discussion directly above) one of the main points of the transcript is to make the comics searchable, the other is, to make it readable when images are not an option. In both cases the comic's name and the title text mentioned above and below the image should be sufficient. I personally think this convention is fine. [[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 08:28, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

::Pardon me -- (and, '''<big>''thanks'' for your patience</big>''') -- if this is too off-topic (/slash "boring") or [[wikt:TMI|TMI]] (see {{w|Information overload#Web accuracy}} e.g.), '''...OR''' if this should have been posted elsewhere ...instead of here.

::IMHO the term '''"title text"''' is a misnomer. I think the term is used to refer to the little (or, '''BIG!''') pop-up -- (kinda like what is sometimes called a <code>"tooltip"</code>, but ... aren't those usually pretty '''small?''') -- that appears when one "hovers" his mouse [pointer] over an XKCD cartoon. ...at least, according to '''the "Talk:" page section''' [[Template talk:comic#The template field called .22titletext.22]] which was added almost 3 years ago. I think that calling it a <code>"BONUS text"</code> would be even better than calling it a "caption". However, [to me], '''either one''' of those terms would make sense ''WAY'' more than calling it a '''"title text"''' ... for reasons which are stated in the [Template] "Talk:" page section mentioned (and ... '''LINKED TO''') above. '''<big>Any Comments? . . ''' *** Thanks! *** for listening!</big> --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz|talk]]) 08:57, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

:::Hi Mike, I see your point, and yes, something like "bonus text" might be a bit more descriptive. But FWIW, I think the reason it's called "title text" is because that's the text that appears in the <code>[https://www.w3schools.com/tags/att_global_title.asp title]</code> attribute of the HTML <code>[https://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_img.asp <img>]</code> tag of the comic's image on the xkcd.com site. For example, at https://xkcd.com/2364/, the code for the comic image looks like this:
<pre>
<img src="//imgs.xkcd.com/comics/parity_conservation.png"
title="Bloody Mary is made of antimatter. It explains so much."
alt="Parity Conservation"
srcset="//imgs.xkcd.com/comics/parity_conservation_2x.png 2x">
</pre>
:::In there, you can see the title text as <code>title="Bloody Mary is made of antimatter. It explains so much."</code> See [[title text|here]] for more explanation about that, and some discussions about it [[explain xkcd:Community portal/Miscellaneous#Common mistake|here]]. – [[User:Yfmcpxpj|Yfmcpxpj]] ([[User talk:Yfmcpxpj|talk]]) 03:11, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

== Wikipedia links. ==

I think the links to Wikipedia should have symbols, so it's not confusing which ones lead to other comic pages.

== It's time to remove the HTTPS lock icon ==

Explainxkcd should do the same thing that browser makers have done: treat HTTPS as the modern standard, and mark HTTP as the deviation instead.

Here are appropriate replacement icons:
* https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Unlock_Icon_Red_(32_bit).png
* https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Unlock_Icon_Red_(4_bit).gif
- [[User:Frankie|Frankie]] ([[User talk:Frankie|talk]]) 12:49, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

== New page for Randall's regular column in the New York Times ==
Randall Munroe has been writing and illustrating a monthly science column in the New York Times. I suggest a page in this Wiki, indexing those columns. For some reason the New York Times itself does not provide such an index. If they ever do add one, we would still have a topic article here, similar to the one we have for the What If blog, that could link to their index. --[[User:JohnB|JohnB]] ([[User talk:JohnB|talk]]) 00:47, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
------
=== New York Times column: Good Question ===

'''Good Question''' is a more-or-less monthly column written and illustrated by '''[[Randall|Randall Munroe]]''' in the '''[https://www.nytimes.com/section/science Science section of the New York Times]''', beginning in November 2019. The columns give serious answers to science questions, in Munroe's inimitable style.

The New York Times website ordinarily requires registration, and its content is always protected by copyright. Most particularly it is ''not'' under [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/2.5/ Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 2.5 License] the way [[xkcd]] is. The good news: anyone can register for a free digital subscription to the New York Times, with access to 'recent' Science articles among some others, but outside of that only five articles per month. See [https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/info/help/freesearch.html Free Articles].

Unlike for many of their other regular columnists, the New York Times does not provide a clickable link either on the byline '''Randall Munroe''' or on the column title '''Good Question'''. The following tables are intended to correct that omission.

{| class="wikitable"
|+ New York Times columns ''by'' Randall Munroe
! Column !! Headline !! Byline !! Date
|-
! SCIENCE
| [https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/13/science/what-makes-a-red-sky-at-night-and-at-morning.html What Makes a Red Sky at Night (and at Morning)]
| Randall Munroe
| Aug. 13, 2019
|-
! GOOD QUESTION
| [https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/12/science/randall-munroe-moon.html If I Touched the Moon, What Would It Feel Like?]
| Randall Munroe
| Nov. 12, 2019
|-
! GOOD QUESTION
| [https://nytimes.com/2019/12/10/science/earth-size-mass.html Is Earth Getting Bigger Over Time?]
| Randall Munroe
| Dec. 10, 2019
|-
! GOOD QUESTION
| [https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/21/science/human-running-speed-quadruped.html How Fast Can a Human Run?]
| Randall Munroe
| Jan. 21, 2020 / Feb. 7, 2020
|-
! GOOD QUESTION
| [https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/17/science/worst-odor-smell-thioacetone.html What’s the World’s Worst Smell?]
| Randall Munroe
| Feb. 17, 2020 / Feb. 26, 2020
|-
! GOOD QUESTION
| [https://nytimes.com/2020/03/10/science/question-randall-munroe-bobsled-gravity.html What if Galileo Had Dropped Bobsleds From the Tower of Pisa?]
| Randall Munroe
| March 10, 2020
|-
! GOOD QUESTION
| [https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/07/science/pulsar-xkcd-munroe-stars.html How’s the View From a Spinning Star?]
| Randall Munroe
| April 7, 2020
|-
! GOOD QUESTION
| [https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/11/science/traffic-barrier-rice-krispies.html What’s the Sweetest, Crispiest Way to Stay Safe in a Car Crash?]
| Randall Munroe
| May 11, 2020
|-
! GOOD QUESTION
| [https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/09/science/randall-munroe-question-eggs.html Can You Boil an Egg Too Long?]
| Randall Munroe
| June 9, 2020
|-
! GOOD QUESTION
| [https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/science/neutrinos-snowball-randall-munroe.html Could You Make a Snowball of Neutrinos?]
| Randall Munroe
| July 7, 2020
|}

{| class="wikitable"
|+ New York Times columns ''about'' Randall Munroe
! Column !! Headline !! Byline !! Date
|-
! LINK BY LINK
| [https://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/26/business/media/26link.html This Is Funny Only if You Know Unix]
| Noam Cohen
| May 26, 2008
|-
! BITS
| [https://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/14/techs-favorite-cartoonist-enters-mainstream-publishing/ Tech’s Favorite Cartoonist Enters Mainstream Publishing]
| Noam Cohen
| March 14, 2014
|-
! SCIENCE
| [https://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/04/science/randall-munroe-the-creator-of-xkcd-explains-complexity-through-absurdity.html He’s Glad You Asked]
| Kenneth Chang
| Nov. 3, 2014
|-
! BOOKS
| [https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/24/books/randall-munroe-explains-it-all-for-us.html Randall Munroe Explains It All for Us]
| Alexandra Alter
| Nov. 23, 2015
|-
! SCIENCE
| [https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/22/science/randall-munroe-xkcd-science-textbook.html Randall Munroe, XKCD Creator, Goes Back to High School]
| Kenneth Chang
| March 21, 2016
|-
! SCIENCE
| [https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/03/18/science/document-Munroepages.html Randall Munroe of ‘XKCD’ Explains the Human Body, Elevators and the Saturn 5]
| (Actual pages from '''{{w|Thing_Explainer|Thing Explainer}}''')
| March 21, 2016
|}
------

: Looks goods to me, you should probably make that an article of its own, maybe [[New York Times: Good Question]]? --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 22:58, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

: {{notice|I went and added the page, here: [[New York Times: Good Question]] --[[User:JohnB|JohnB]] ([[User talk:JohnB|talk]]) 02:42, 11 July 2020 (UTC)}}

== Bring back the {{rw}} template! please ==

Can someone restore the <nowiki>{{rw}}</nowiki> template? I insist on its existence. I further assure that it will be of much use. It was deleted by an admin. — [[User:Sqrt-1|The 𝗦𝗾𝗿𝘁-𝟭]] [[User talk:Sqrt-1|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Sqrt-1|stalk]] 06:10, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
:nm, did it myself. — [[User:Sqrt-1|The 𝗦𝗾𝗿𝘁-𝟭]] [[User talk:Sqrt-1|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Sqrt-1|stalk]] 04:15, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

== Link to high-resolution images? ==

The wiki includes the "standard" resolution images, but would it be worth adding a link to the higher-resolution image on each page? It appears that this could be automated in at least a strong majority of cases: if the standard image is ''xyzzy.png'', the hi-res one is ''xyzzy'''_2x'''.png'' . [[User:BunsenH|BunsenH]] ([[User talk:BunsenH|talk]]) 22:10, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
:Please stop adding this to the explanations. This is not needed. [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:56, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
::The high-resolution image was quite useful in parsing the "Amelia's Farm Fresh Cookies" comic. I'm not convinced that the hi-res images are commonly known. I've been reading xkcd for about 7 years and hadn't heard about them until I stumbled across a mention of them in one of the Discussions here. What is the harm in having a one-line ''link'' here? -- not, I emphasize, the actual image, which would take up a great deal of space. [[User:BunsenH|BunsenH]] ([[User talk:BunsenH|talk]]) 17:00, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
:::I didn't know about the high-resolution images either. While it might be a bit repetitive to add a full sentence to every comic's explanation, I agree that having ''some'' easy way to link to the hi-res image on xkcd.com could be handy. For example, maybe a "hi-res" or "2x" button before the "Next >" button above the comic in [[Template:comic]]? That's a bit extreme, but I added an example template, derived from the existing [[Template:comic]], to demonstrate how that could work:
:::* Template: [[User:Yfmcpxpj/Template:comic 2x test]]
:::* Demo: [[User:Yfmcpxpj/Sandbox#2x comic template test]]
:::With those changes to the template, for all comics as of [[1084]] the "2x" button would automatically appear. (No need to go back and change all comics.) This assumes the images hosted on explainxkcd generally have the same filename as on xkcd.com, but there are optional parameters to override the filename or omit the "2x" button altogether for specific exceptions. I'm not suggesting we actually go ahead and implement this; but if there was enough interest, an admin would be needed anyway, to make the changes within [[Template:comic]], which is currently protected. – [[User:Yfmcpxpj|Yfmcpxpj]] ([[User talk:Yfmcpxpj|talk]]) 23:25, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
::::FWIW, I like this. [[User:BunsenH|BunsenH]] ([[User talk:BunsenH|talk]]) 20:25, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
:::::My proposal is that a bot should add it automatically to the description of each comic image when available so that it does not take up space anywhere and is easily accessible. — [[User:Sqrt-1|The 𝗦𝗾𝗿𝘁-𝟭]] [[User talk:Sqrt-1|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Sqrt-1|stalk]] 13:49, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

== Proposal to replace the top section with this... ==

I have come up with a new design for the top section of all community portals...
It’s located here... https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=explain_xkcd:Sandbox&oldid=199882 — [[User:Sqrt-1|The 𝗦𝗾𝗿𝘁-𝟭]] [[User talk:Sqrt-1|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Sqrt-1|stalk]] 14:15, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
<hr/>
{|-
|valign="top" width="80%"|[[File:Crystal Clear app ktip.png|left|120px]] <big><big>Proposals</big></big>

Ideas to improve the wiki's design and organization can be added here. {{AddNewSection|Page=Explain XKCD:Community portal/Proposals|Text=(+post)}}

|valign="top" xalign="right" width="100%"|[[File:Crystal Clear app package settings blue.png|50px|link=https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/explain_xkcd:Community_portal/Technical]][[File:Crystal Clear teamwork.png|50px|link=https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/explain_xkcd:Community_portal/Coordination]][[File:Mop.svg|50px|link=https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/explain_xkcd:Community_portal/Admin_requests]][[File:Internet-group-chat.svg|50px|link=https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/explain_xkcd:Community_portal/Miscellaneous]]
|}

== I made a template for welcoming new users. ==

{{Welcome}}
<hr/>
Any ideas? Suggestions? Objections? — [[User:Sqrt-1|The 𝗦𝗾𝗿𝘁-𝟭]] [[User talk:Sqrt-1|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Sqrt-1|stalk]] 16:35, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
: this is now in at the top of the Main Page --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 16:38, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
::Why? This looks like a template intended for (newly created) UserPages. And it replaces interesting data from the frontpage with something not useful for casual visitors (or even non-casual lurkers). I'd undo this change in an instant if I had authority to do so. ((The template looks good, to clarify, just obviously not intended to be in that location.)) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.76.154|141.101.76.154]] 01:36, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
:::[[User: Jeff|Jeff]] is the owner of explainxkcd you dingus. [[User:Beanie|Beanie]] [[User talk:Beanie|talk]] 13:46, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

== comic groups ==

i think we should have a tech problems list of comics ( as there are quite a few)
:We already have a category for it. [[:Category:Cueball_Computer_Problems]]. — [[User:Sqrt-1|The 𝗦𝗾𝗿𝘁-𝟭]] [[User talk:Sqrt-1|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Sqrt-1|stalk]] 13:44, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

== Archiving interactive comics? ==

Has the possibility of archiving interactive comics been discussed? Of course, users can view them on the original website, but it’d be nice to have a working backup of sorts, especially considering some of the interactive comics haven’t aged too well in terms of compatibility or support (e.g. Umwelt displays a blank page for me.)

It probably wouldn’t be possible to do so directly from mediawiki, but I’d be happy to experiment with cloning a few of them on another server, or as simple PHP pages that could be embedded, if it would help. Most of the interactive comics appear to be implemented mostly in client side JS anyways, so replicating them shouldn’t be too bad.

[[User:Tague|Tague]] ([[User talk:Tague|talk]]) 13:12, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

== Replace head shots of characters in the wiki with these new and high quality head shots! ==

https://www.reddit.com/r/xkcd/comments/n2u28r/i_took_head_shots_of_the_reccuring_characters_and/

These are not only upscaled, but are all squares and have all the features of the characters. — [[User:Sqrt-1|The 𝗦𝗾𝗿𝘁-𝟭]] [[User talk:Sqrt-1|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Sqrt-1|stalk]] 03:33, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
:I think you should do it (because higher quality = better) :] [[User:Beanie|Beanie]] [[User talk:Beanie|talk]] 13:42, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
::There seemed to be no objections, so I went ahead and did it. — [[User:Sqrt-1|The 𝗦𝗾𝗿𝘁-𝟭]] [[User talk:Sqrt-1|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Sqrt-1|stalk]] 12:40, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

== Cleaning up [[Special:WantedTemplates|Special: Wanted Templates]] ==

I decided to take a look at the list of wanted templates. Imagine my surprise when I see that a lot of the templates wanted were mis-capitalizations or misspellings of existing templates. I hereby request permission to create redirect pages for some of the most popular errors.
I intend to do five, wait a week, and do another five as to not spam the wiki. I will not begin for a week, at which point I will only proceed if nobody has said no OR a moderator has said yes. May I proceed? [[User talk:Quillathe Siannodel|{)|(}]][[User:Quillathe_Siannodel|Quill]][[Special:Contributions/Quillathe_Siannodel|{)|(}]] 11:34, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

== Knit Cap ==
Sometimes Knit cap has long hair, sometimes short. Is Knit Cap meant to be a male character that sometimes has long hair, or is Knit Cap sometimes female? I want to clear this up before I finish editing [[1350: Lorenz]]. [[User:Beanie|Beanie]] [[User talk:Beanie|talk]] 13:40, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
:Hm, in the 'Enemy Pikachu used theft' scene in [[1350: Lorenz]], Knit Cap's hair looks merely slightly unkempt. From this, I will assume that Knit Cap just sometimes has long hair and is always male. [[User:Beanie|Beanie]] [[User talk:Beanie|talk]] 13:10, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
::Ok, the official transcripts say that Knit Cap is 'A guy in a knit cap'. I will take that to mean that Knit Cap is definitely male.

== We still need to complete some explanations like this one: ==

I think should change the banner shown at the top of every page to show a comic that is still incomplete, like Hoverboard or something. [[User:Sure|Sure]] ([[User talk:Sure|talk]]) 21:32, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

== Update MediaWiki ==
explainxkcd is running MediaWiki 1.30.0, which reached end-of-life in June 2019. There are likely security issues because of this, so please update MediaWiki to the latest version (or LTS) using the instructions here https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Upgrading [[User:Cam1170|Cam1170]] ([[User talk:Cam1170|talk]]) 19:41, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
:It seems like the mysql is too outdated for the upgrade [[User:Starstar|Starstar]] ([[User talk:Starstar|talk]]) 17:37, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
::Upgrade MySQL then[[User:Aaron Liu|Aaron Liu]] ([[User talk:Aaron Liu|talk]]) 03:16, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
Does anybody know how to contact an admin for this? I have no clue. [[User:Cam1170|Cam1170]] ([[User talk:Cam1170|talk]]) 03:25, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

== Allow Users to Edit their own talk page if not auto confimed ==

I can edit this page, but I can't create my own talk page! [[User:Starstar|Starstar]] ([[User talk:Starstar|talk]]) 17:34, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

== Upgrade Icons ==

The icons look quite old fashion (the ones on the sidebar and the ones above the editing text area), could they be replaced? [[User:Starstar|Starstar]] ([[User talk:Starstar|talk]]) 23:07, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
:They probably could be, but changing icons the moment they're not absolutely cutting-edge just means using new icons that are as easily edged-out (as tastes change yet again), meanwhile annoying those who prefered the first set and rather wouldn't see a revolving door of ever-evolving aesthetics.
:If I had a vote, I'd say keep the simple glyphs we're used to. If any are not totally obvious (perhaps some would not be, without the text captions) consider revising, but I think you'll get less agreement on what new images to use than that which would advocate the retention of the current ones.
:Alternately, it would definitely be on-theme to find Randall-drawn illustrations to replace them all. But the constraints of adapting (say) any particular stick-figure-world depiction of randonmess to ''meaningfully'' replace the current Random Page icon (at the same scale!) might be less than optimal.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.57|172.70.162.57]] 01:08, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

== Make searchbar not case-sensitive ==

The way the search bar is currently set, it only suggests comic links when what is being typed is capitalized ("Assigning Numbers" rather than "assigning numbers" for instance). Would be nice if we could make it not case-sensitive :D [[User:Char Latte49|Wielder of the Staple Gun]] ([[User talk:Char Latte49|talk]]) 02:48, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
:Good idea. [[User:Marethyu|⟨Winter is coming⟩ Marethyu]] ([[User talk:Marethyu|talk]]) 17:46, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

== Do not allow ordinary users to edit redirects that are just numbers ==

This overrides the default page you're sent to when you check a comic; e.g. recently a vandal edited the page entitled "2614" so it overrode the actual page, [[2614: 2]] on the main page.
:The problem would be when creating a new page and the overrides are needed... [[User:Marethyu|⟨Winter is coming⟩ Marethyu]] ([[User talk:Marethyu|talk]]) 17:48, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

== ExplainXKCD discord (or other platform)? ==

I'm just saying if we had instant messages, pings etc. there would be a lot faster reaction to vandals.
The community portal is hard to get attention from and comments are all very well and good but conversations on Discord could get very quick response, and people could request edits, organise page re-writing etc.
Idk if we can get "official" backing by anyone high up but we could make one anyways?
:The problem with platforms like Discord or others is that we can't guarantee that everyone has access to them; on the wiki, anyone can edit, while some people may not have access to discord or such. A possible solution would be having a sort of service built into the wiki, but not sure how that might be done. Besides, this is a wiki, not an xkcd chat site. This is a good idea, though. [[User:Marethyu|⟨Winter is coming⟩ Marethyu]] ([[User talk:Marethyu|talk]]) 17:43, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
::Anyone can create a discord account like anyone can create an account on this wiki. You don't even need a dedicated client/app as it can run in browser. Just like the wiki. Just my two cents. [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 11:28, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
:::Some user may not wish anyone to be able to contact them outside this wiki. You do not need an acount to edit this wiki... [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 17:14, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

== So, I got a question about transcripts. ==

A lot of comics show links (e.g.: all the ones with a drawing of wikipedia on it), and the transcripts don't really have a standard. In the transcript, should it be an actual link or just blue text or what? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.79.52|162.158.79.52]] 15:03, 2 June 2022 (UTC)Bumpf
:I'd say that if the linked thing (presuming it's a real linkable target!) is linked in the Explanation, it doesn't need to be (re)linked in the ostensibly flat-and-descriptive Transcript.
:And I know that some Transcripts are hypertext formatted to emulate the thing they are transcribed from (whether bolded, enbiggened, sub-/superscripted and and/or given the hue) but maybe ''primarily'' the "<code>[:Text that describes the text]</code>" should be explaining the details, in case the screen-reader (or text-searching algorithm grepping the Transcript text for "green text" or "superscript" instances can't quite work it out from the various style-tags that can be applied to that effect in so many an various ways.
:But this is IMO, I don't know if there's a specific policy about it, but it is how I've seen it vaguely applied... Not everywhere quite so consistently, though. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.128|172.70.91.128]] 20:28, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
::We try to keep links and explanations out of the transcript. The link and the explanation goes in the explanation section above. [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 17:12, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

== Use 2X Images ==

Apparently xkcd.com provides double-sized versions of almost every comic if you add '''_2x''' to the end of the image name. For instance,

https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/watches.png

https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/watches_2x.png

Since we are in 2022 and computers can load high-resolution images just fine, and they are easier to read, I propose that this website should use the provided double-sized images. Really, I think Randall ought to be doing this himself as well. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.18.107|172.68.18.107]] 12:22, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

:While I agree with using the higher quality images which are default on xkcd.com for many people, there has been [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/explain_xkcd:Community_portal/Proposals#Link_to_high-resolution_images.3F discussion] about this issue already. At the moment, the consensus seems to be to continue using the 'standard' size to 'use less space,' and instead link to the higher quality image on the image page. —[[User:Theusaf|theusaf]] ([[User talk:Theusaf|talk]]) 14:35, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

::I think I may have mentioned it on that link (or similar), but often when the 2x image is used (or even an unwise too wide image/unbreakable-line-of-content) the explainxkcd site cannot sensibly handle it and it forces the default 'page width' of stuff into a zoomed out narrower column to the left (including the margin-line normally inset a dozen or so pixels in from the right) so that browser-window can display the whole of this wide element.
::While "saving space" does apply to server resources and viewer download bandwidth/quotas (e.g.[https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/unreliable_connection.png 53kb] vs [https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/unreliable_connection_2x.png 109kb]) may seem insignificant, screen-space can be badly hit by this.
::The motherlode xkcd site has code behind it to (usually?) serve the right image for the right displays, but explainxkcd isn't currently equipped to do the same choose-and-provide (which would need ''both'' images uploaded to it and a revised {{template|comic}} implementation, once we work out the method it could use). And I've never seen any case where the 'low quality' comic is conversely too small and narrow to appreciate (though occasionally the larger one reveals minor drawing details that have been obscured by the downscaling), just when the _2x one makes everything ''else'' too small.
::...this may not apply to everyone's browser implementation, but it definitely happens, and consistently, on my usual Chrome and/or Firefox on Windows and/or Android platforms (according to which system I happen to be on at the time). [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.147|172.70.162.147]] 21:20, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
:::ExplainXKCD actually does have the capability to do this. For example, see [[1079:_United_Shapes]]. It generates multiple images, automatically choosing one based on screen size (similar to how xkcd.com does it). The bot could use the `imagesize` parameter to keep the image within the page's width by using the 'standard' image size. This does add a button labeled "click to enlarge," but if that is annoying, the comic template can be modified to hide that button if specified.
:::Here is what it might look like:
:::{{cot}}
{{User:Theusaf/Template:comic_2x
| number = 2647
| date = July 18, 2022
| title = Capri Suns
| image = capri_suns_2x.png
| titletext = [As security is dragging me away] "Come on, at least I didn't make the mistake in the other direction!"
| imagesize = 315x317px
| noexpand = true
}}
{{cob}}
:::which is clearer than the original comic page and the same size. —[[User:Theusaf|theusaf]] ([[User talk:Theusaf|talk]]) 05:20, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
::::As specificaly implemented above, I certainly see no immediate problem (need to check across machines/devices), but I suspect that part of the mechanism here is the "imagesize = 315x317px", which seems like it would need (albeit by the page-create bot, algorithm8cally) to be tailored to the 'input' image, not always in this ratio). I'm not technically conversant with the nature of your back-end scripting and doubtless it's all possible (scripts can do almost anything... once you know that they (may) need to do them and rewritten them to catch all the contingencies ;) ), but I don't know know if that's something you've accounted for (e.g. test with a three/four-panel wide comic, or the Earth Temperature Timeline or whatever, and see if it can facilitate them all nicely). Not to mention that if theusafBOT goes offline, the manual-add instructions (as used prior to your replacing the prior functioning bot, for which I thank you) also need this extra step of user involvement to be done, whereas usually the fallback manual method needed little thought in this direction (or indeed however much carbon or silicon there is in the 'brain' involved) except for exceptional circumstances or those rare prior slip-ups by Randall.
::::I'm just going through the first obvious issue (to me), didn't mean to concentrate so many words on just this before even checking everything else! [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.80|172.70.91.80]] 09:15, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
:::::Basically, on the backend, the bot will fetch both the small and the large images, and measure the size of the small image, which is what it will use for the <code>imagesize</code>. I have actually used this system in the past for this bot, but was told to revert it due to the "click comic to enlarge" text. As for if the bot goes offline, there is no problem with falling back to the small image, and if editors want to, I can also provide instructions for using the large image. I'm mostly just waiting to see what others think about this. Are there any other problems to consider? —[[User:Theusaf|theusaf]] ([[User talk:Theusaf|talk]]) 14:44, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

== I'm making an App that collects web comics ==

My original idea was to use the rss feed present on xkcd, and other webcomic websites, but now im starting to wonder if there was a way to make a better service, that allowed users to maybe look at older comics, and explanations and such as well, and thats how i happened to come across explainxkcd.com. The RSS Feed for this website, would be pretty helpful, if it were like reddit's but apparently, the rss feed is only maintained for the home page. I was wondering if you guys provided that data through an API or something? Also are there wikis for other famous comics like this one? Any other suggestions and ideas for the app are welcome 🙌🙌.

== Comics edited after their publication ==

many more comics have been changed than are in Category:Comics edited after their publication ! please add them (i already have done two i remember off the top of my head) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.134.223|172.70.134.223]] 12:56, 7 October 2022 (UTC)Bumpf

== What if 2 book page creation ==
What if 2 has come out, but I don't know which page is to be created. There is already a comic under the same name. [[User:ClassicalGames|ClassicalGames]] ([[User talk:ClassicalGames|talk]]) 08:54, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

== Default to 3 Section Headings for Each Explanation: Non-Obvious Info, Recap, and Background Trivia ==

This is a proposal that all new comic explanations should, by default, have 3 Sections:

'''I. Explanation of the Non-Obvious''' (an actual explanation of the non-obvious elements of the comic for the average reader who might not understand the references/joke/relevant science)

'''II. Full Recap'''

'''III. Background Trivia'''

Most of us can agree that Category I is where the value of this website shines.

But today, all 3 of these categories of explanation are typically merged together, making it hard to find the Category I nuggets of goodness.

If we make these 3 section headings the default on every comic explanation, then this default will helpfully nudge editors to put the juiciest stuff up top, and not to clutter that section up with fluff or trivia.

——

As an example, take the recent comic #2878 about Astronomer Happiness and Supernova distance.

The main thing a lay reader would want to know — the Category I information — is…

..That the shape of the graph is probably a clever reference to a Light Curve, a type of supernova graph

..why astronomers like it when a supernova is close, and what happens when it gets too close

Everything else in the (currently) very wordy explanation gets in the way of the lay reader finding out these two things. It’s a bunch of Category II and Category III info that makes it hard to tease out the Category I info. It’s not BAD information, but it’s sandpaper. It’s friction slowing down the average reader.

Obviously I could go in and edit this particular comic, and I often do this kind of edit, but I think this issue pops up for most explanations, so I think changing the standard default interface will help everyone put their contribution into the right section.

In sum, my proposal would elevate Category I info to the top of each explanation, so instead of full recaps, we get right into the explanation that is going to be most efficiently illuminating for the average, non-expert reader, answering the most common questions.

[[User:Laser813|Laser813]] ([[User talk:Laser813|talk]]) 10:50, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
:In general (if I get dibs on the edit, or think I can legitimately re-edit/rearrange), I do try to go for "hook, line, sinker" format (i.e. establish the basics, relate that to what the comic shows, move on to any relevent speculations/extrapolations), very like your setup. Though it is often ''much'' too complicated (multi-layered, cross-disciplinary, etc, so that maybe it has to be interwoven 'mini explanations' per tabulated item) so I'm not sure how easy it would be to enforce a strict structure. I think there's merit to the principle, though. Assuming we can all agree what each comic needs focus on (apply that problem to the following proposal too!), as I've occasionally inserted a sort of "first you need to know <subject>" into an established cold-start explanation ("you see <foo>" only for a later editor to consider it more an afterthought and shuffle it to later ("you see <foo>" ... "<foo> is part of <subject>"), or variations on such layouts. Especially as different people have different ideas as to what's obvious/can be keyword-wikilinked and what needs more waffle to properly enlighten readers.
:Also, prosaic variation is a good thing. Too formulaic and it could be (whilst accurate) considered too robotic, so some leaway should really always be allowed as we collectively bash together a community interpretation and elaboration. Within communal guidelines, clearly. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.194.203|172.69.194.203]] 15:53, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

== FAQ Style Editing should be the norm ==

Simply, we should experiment with more FAQ-style explanations.

We think of the top questions that the average reader might have about a comic, and we use those as bolded headers to explain the most curious/confusing/subtle/sciency parts of the comic.

The structure would be this (using a recent comic as an example)…

'''Q: Why did Randall use this shape of graph?'''
A: It’s likely a clever reference to a Light Curve, a similarly shaped graph in the study of supernovae that…

'''Q: Why do astronomers prefer it when supernovae are closer?'''
A: It makes it easier to glean information because…

[[User:Laser813|Laser813]] ([[User talk:Laser813|talk]]) 10:50, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

== sidebar revamp ==
I think that the sidebar looks plain and it should have a new design. It could be voted on by users [[User:Moderator|Moderator]] ([[User talk:Moderator|talk]]) 02:16, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
:In leiu of you telling us what you think would be better, my starting vote is that I'm perfectly happy with that 'plain'. If it has the links I might need, why does it need a reskin? Or, worse, a functional revamp which probably removes the easy to use bits I was using already.
:...could you do a mock-up screenshot (or render equivalents directly in markup) of before/after side by side, at least? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.194.120|172.69.194.120]] 03:11, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

My biggest problem is it doesn’t scroll down with you which can be a big pain [[User:Moderator|Moderator]] ([[User talk:Moderator|talk]]) 01:43, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
:Don't know about anyone else, but (when not on a desktop) I read this on a tablet, in landscape, with the effective window quite short (ratio of 1:2 with width, approaching 1:3.5 with already narrowed onscreen keyboard popped up) and if I'm scrolled to the top I see nothing beyond Browse Comics.
:If we assume separate scroll-control on the sidebar, setting Main Page at the top of browser pane gives What Links Here at the bottom. Now, I rarely use the next three links (or at least reach those pages using them), and separate scrolling wouldn't stop me even seeing the even lower Ad bit (but it ''would'' defeat the entire purpose of the Ad, in that position, whether or not I bother to notice it these days).
:So whatever missing about you propose, I'm betting it would impact me. Perhaps not negatively, but I've seen enough awful assumptions about my screen-area in the name of scroll-free design. Including the "give us permission (or not) to give you cookies" popovers where it appears the actual buttons to confirm (or deny, or go somewhere to review and customise, if they have that option) are beyond the bottom of my screen. I can temporarily rotate the screen, of course, but often I just back out and don't bother in those cases. I wouldn't be reticent to rotate this site, on occasion, but ''I'd really rather not have to'', if I can be so selfish and stick-in-the-mud, because websites just are not good to use (even temporarily) in narrow-portait mode. (What's worse is the websites that detect I'm on a mobile platform and redesign styles/placements on-the-fly to 'fit portrait view', assuming a vertical smartphone, ''regardless'' of my actual viewport orientation, etc.)
:So, please, a hard no from me. Notwithstanding that just as solidly "always browse in portrait" people might be overjoyed at changes that would give ''them'' a better site design. But that's a tricky circle to square (or letterbox!), and not what you were suggesting anyway (now we know what it is). I just want to plea that any changes be made with a very good idea of all the knock-on effects of 'improving' certain edge-cases, especially when it comes to yet other edge-cases. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.23|172.70.85.23]] 10:29, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
==New Logo and Banner Proposals==
:I have new logo and banner proposals for this site.
:They're made on Scratch, an all-ages block-based programming language, and are in the style of Right Click.
:Here they are!
:Logo proposal: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Logo_proposal_for_explain_xkcd.png
:Banner proposal: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Banner_proposal_for_explain_xkcd.png {{unsigned ip|172.69.71.37|01:54, 19 February 2024}}
::I can't see the xkcdicity of the logo, really. The banner is certainly flavourful in the right way (does it scale down well? ...is that what your use of Scratch is for, as opposed to standard static Photoshop/GIMP image editing?), but not sure it'll work better for the current top-left-of-page xkcd (with three xkcd figurses idling away, sat on the letters).
::Decent concept art for something else related, certainly. I could believe it was a Randall's-own interactive comic front-end of some kind (which would make sense of the "play button" that is the "►"-bit). Given that it's now in a programming system already, have you tried making a drag'n'click game of the idea of linking/looping the blue-trail, and animating the hanging-on characters? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.29|172.70.90.29]] 13:34, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
:::It's an arrow, not a play button. Get it right. {{unsigned ip|172.69.71.72|01:05, 20 February 2024}}
::::Hold your horses... I was just trying to find a good reason for the whatever-it-is triangle to be there (gave the example of a 'play' button in my speculated usefulness of it). And it isn't really obviously any more of an arrow (c.f. "→"), either. I like your(?) banner's use of xkcd-figures, just not sure where the logo exhibits any form of being xkcd-related, except by the literal reading of it.
::::Perhaps if it were "xkcd font" (i.e. artfully composited from actual samples of Randall's ALLCAPS comic-writing) then it wouldn't matter so much, but I just wouldn't say it was any more on-brand than the current logo/etc. This being intended as constructive criticism, I hope you understand. And there's more opinions than mine, so maybe I've indeed just missed some point that ''everyone else'' (especially named-users) have already realised. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.5|172.70.86.5]] 02:33, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

== Regarding precision in the Unexplained popup ==

Would it be possible to add an extra decimal point for the sake of precision? Currently, it shows that 0% of comics are unexplained, which is (as of 13:21 UTC on March 27, 2024) incorrect. It's a small thing, but it's rather annoying. {{unsigned ip|162.158.158.233|13:23, 27 March 2024}}
:With the current 2911 comics (give or take #404), 0.1% would be slightly under 3 comics. You'd need at least three before 0.1% appeared instead of the equally unuseful 0.0%.
:I'm of the "at least give everyone a week before you unilaterally declare it 'done'..." camp, so right now ''just'' the latest M/W/F comic incomplete would hover at a token 0.1%.
:(Actually, from two (0.06...% rounded up) to 4 (0.13...% rounded down. The good news is that it'll be almost seven years until two-rounded-up is insufficient, but also up to six-rounded-down is now "0.1%", if I've not goofed the carries/etc.)
:If going to the trouble of editing it to 1DP, make it 2DP with ''exactly'' the same editing effort..?
<blockquote>
<center>
''Welcome to the '''explain [[xkcd]]''' wiki!'' 
We have an explanation for all [[:Category:All comics|'''{{#expr:{{PAGESINCAT:All comics|R}}-1}}''' xkcd comics]],

and only {{PAGESINCAT:Incomplete explanations|R}}
({{#expr: {{PAGESINCAT:Incomplete explanations|R}} / {{LATESTCOMIC}} * 100 round 2}}%) [[:Category:Incomplete explanations|are incomplete]]. Help us finish them!
</center>
</blockquote>
:(As of time of posting, the above says "only 2 (0.07%)". From 0.0687049...% rounded up to 2DP.)
:Though given that we're only going to go into the future,{{Citation needed}} I suggest we can state the flat-out number. It's not now really going to be as scarily huge as it might have been, as the actual percentage becomes generally less significant.
:And, for niceness, give it a grammatically/factually agreeable form:
<blockquote>
;General form:
:<code><nowiki>... and {{#ifeq:  | 0 | no |  }} comic{{#ifeq:  | 1 | | s }} [[:Category:Incomplete explanations|{{#ifeq:  | 1 | is | are }} incomplete]]. ...</nowiki></code>
;Zero cases (hardcoded):
:... and {{#ifeq: 0 | 0 | no |  }} comic{{#ifeq: 0 | 1 | | s }} [[:Category:Incomplete explanations|{{#ifeq: 0 | 1 | is | are }} incomplete]]. ...
;One case (hardcoded):
:... and {{#ifeq: 1 | 0 | no | 1 }} comic{{#ifeq: 1 | 1 | | s }} [[:Category:Incomplete explanations|{{#ifeq: 1 | 1 | is | are }} incomplete]]. ...
;Multiple cases (hardcoded):
:... and {{#ifeq: 42 | 0 | no | 42 }} comic{{#ifeq: 42 | 1 | | s }} [[:Category:Incomplete explanations|{{#ifeq: 42 | 1 | is | are }} incomplete]]. ...
;Current cases (dynamic):
:... and {{#ifeq: {{PAGESINCAT:Incomplete explanations|R}} | 0 | none | {{PAGESINCAT:Incomplete explanations|R}} }} comic{{#ifeq: {{PAGESINCAT:Incomplete explanations|R}} | 1 | | s }} [[:Category:Incomplete explanations|{{#ifeq: {{PAGESINCAT:Incomplete explanations|R}} | 1 | is | are }} incomplete]]. ...
</blockquote>
:...easy to replicate to get "Help us finish them!" to change (upon a zero-test truth) to "But they all might be improvable!". Or change the :Cat:Link to not even be a link when zero, with alternate phrasing dodged over to in order to avoid "no comics are incomplete" in other ways.
:I wrote the above for minimal nesting of overlapping conditions. You might prefer just to go with <code><nowiki>{{#ifeq: <count> | 0 | <whole "zero cases" version> | {{#ifeq: <count> | 1 | <whole "single case" version> | <whole "plurality of cases" version> }} }}</nowiki></code> - both approaches involve repetitions, but maybe this other one can be given a ''degree'' of wikimarkup-readability within each case, to take pity on future editors. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.160.166|172.70.160.166]] 16:02, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

== Hear me out: What If? discussion page. ==

That's it. That's my idea. Go crazy, everyone. [[User:Psychoticpotato|Psychoticpotato]] ([[User talk:Psychoticpotato|talk]]) 14:05, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
:Yup, I've been thinking the same thing. I would like a page on each What If entry. [[User:Maplestrip|Maplestrip]] ([[User talk:Maplestrip|talk]]) 07:42, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
::I've thought about this, over the years. Having 'a page' (rather than the summary table, in the [[what if? (blog)|overview page]], etc) does sound more completist than what we currently have but I then tend to hit the main ontological problem...
::In the What-Ifs, Randall takes a 'simple' question and then ''explains'' the consequences. At length. A 'comic page' structure (starting with how we'd deal with the multiple midpoint images, so we would stray far from using the {{template|comic}} introduction) that followed the header(image,etc)/explanation/transcript/(trivia)/included-comments format would be silly and have many parts inappropriate. Remove the Transcript, for starters. ''Or'' need a mini-Transcript for each 'illustrative' image. (e.g. ":[Black Hat:] What if we tried more power?", several times.)
::Is there an actual need to ''explain Randall's explanation..''? Because that's the only thing 'we' can do. Which is rather silly, and seems like it would take a small (entertainingly rambling) essay and expand it into a large (pedantically rambling) one.
::Or else we just straight-copy the What-If over here as a 'backup'-blag? Allowable, but not exactly a USP, there'll be Internet Archive and personal copies, should things go bad at Randall's end. Not really a noble-cause.
::My suggestion, as to how to cover the remaining "explanation gap" and provide a useful 'service' that's worthwhile maintaining, is ''maybe'' two What If? (Blag) sub-pages:
::#A place to collate all inter-text images (and hover-/title-texts), and Transcript them, for easy searching.
::#*e.g. when you know you want to refer to the "bomb to the eyeball" one (internally or for something external) but think you might not realise where you need to go to (the supernova neutrinos one!) just by scrolling a bare comic list.
::#*Or you'd like to see, at a glance, how many different places the Black Hat Try More Power running joke occurs.
::#*Even if you don't want to open the page itself (160+ 'comics' with say 5 images each, is an 800ish-image page, less rationalising 'repeats' to a single entry), it should at least give you a search result for "dry waterfall" that points you in the direction of the "Niagra Straw" one (and maybe others?).
::#*I could see these being brief Image/Titletext/Transcript/(optional explanatory context), but not enough material to make them separate comic-style-pages in their own right, right?
::#Something of the same 'collation page mechanism' for all those superscript-popup-'footnote' bits. Though I admit I'm not entirely sure for what purpose except that it just ''seems'' like a good "collection page" to maintain. Perhaps to offer updated onward-links if any of the originals suffer link-rot? (But then, that fate can occur to all non-popupped links, so maybe I've chosen the wrong thing to highlight.)
::...the question is, what do you want from it. Bear in mind that if you can creae pages here then you can set up what ''you'' think you'd like to see (e.g. for What-If#1, for starters) then get the community to assess it. Do it as a sub-page to your Userspace, maybe, as proof-of-concept.
::Just because it's not been seen as necessary so far, doesn't mean it's not necessary. I've thought about it a lot (not thst I'm in a position to inplement anything), but I've only decided that I don't see a need for a straight copy (others' views may differ on that) and not enough reason to pester for ''my'' 'ideas' to be fulfilled. But I aint 'in charge' here, and happily so. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.194.100|172.69.194.100]] 11:29, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
:::You make a fair point. He did already explain in great detail what would happen if [x] scenario happened. It just seems like it would be nice to have a page exclusively for discussing all the ''What If'' articles. [[User:Psychoticpotato|Psychoticpotato]] ([[User talk:Psychoticpotato|talk]]) 20:49, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
::::People just need to make a draft or two and see what happens. Be sure to link a draft here if one is created, I would like to help on it. "I want to learn more and explore this scenario further" is a valid feeling to have. [[User:Maplestrip|Maplestrip]] ([[User talk:Maplestrip|talk]]) 07:34, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

== Randall-ify the Captcha ==

Let's have some fun: Is it feasible to replace the Captcha with something "xkcd-ish" like "click on Randall's work" with a mix of XKCD stuff and generic pictures. If not, how about a replacing it with a quiz like "which of the following IS [or IS NOT] xkcd character" with one obvious correct answer. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.26.75|172.68.26.75]] 16:11, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
:are YOU able to create a CAPTCHA from scratch? [[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]] ([[User talk:42.book.addict|talk]]) 15:59, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
::Choose any images that contain user-made CAPTCHAs from the following selection. [[User:Psychoticpotato|Psychoticpotato]] ([[User talk:Psychoticpotato|talk]]) 21:22, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

== Incomplete Tag Vote ==

I think each comic's discussion page should have a section to vote on whether the explanation is complete or not. How long do you think the voting period should be?[[User:PDesbeginner|PDesbeginner]] ([[User talk:PDesbeginner|talk]]) 03:42, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
:Rather than a voting period, I think it would be ideal if people could "vote" on the completeness of an article at any time. As I go through all the old pages, I come across lots of pages that feel a little bit incomplete. It would be nice if we had a measurement of completion that wasn't binary. [[User:Maplestrip|Maplestrip]] ([[User talk:Maplestrip|talk]]) 10:16, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
::Feel free to add the incomplete tag again. But don't forget to mention WHY (either in the tag or the discussion or both) you think it's incomplete. :) The tag is mainly there so you can have a list of "incomplete" comics. A comic is either on that list or it isn't. This is pretty much binary. As for voting: If I think an explanation is complete and it bothers me that it's flagged as not I generally juts make a comment in the discussion asking if someone has still something to add or actually knows WHY it's still incomplete. If there's no response after a few days I delete the tag. There's no need to make a voting out of this. And if somone strongly disagrees to you there's always the "Undo"-link ;) [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 11:09, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
:::Sometimes I just feel "this could use more detail," without specifically knowing what the detail would look like. This can be a problem when it's about explaining complicated science: the "completion" of a description of quantum mechanics that is readable by a novice, is very subjective. I am realizing the problem with the persistent voting idea tho: many people will vote something as "incomplete" but wouldn't come back to check on it later. [[User:Maplestrip|Maplestrip]] ([[User talk:Maplestrip|talk]]) 12:08, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
::::I'm more in the "less is more" camp. Most of my recent contributions to this wiki were deleting parts of bloated explanations: You don't need to explain quantum mechanics unless it's absolutely crucial for understanding the respective comic. Of course, if you are an expert in any given field, [[2501|it's hard to tell]] whether or not the current explanation is sufficient for a layperson and most contributors tend to write "too much". Which is totally fine. People like me take care of the "too much". ;) So, if you are an expert in quantum mechanics ignore "completed" comics about quantum mechanics. Surely you could contribute a lot to it but chances are high that most of it is unnecessary for the comic. Instead ask yourself if you need more information to understand that comic about biology. And if you do, add an incomplete and ask for that information ;) [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 12:31, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
:I've been here a long time, effectively back to when there were ''missing'' explanations (other than the "too new to have the barebones put in" ones, these days only seen when the current BOT is tardy or offline for some reason), and I've seen the Incomplete template change from the useful 'infill marker' to become a regular joke-tag of a similar nature to the Citation Needed. Yes, I agree that both of these (and the Because You're Dumb" tag) are perhaps a bit confusing for new users (like the one who badly edited out a link, just now, apparently thinking it was spam, because of the way it mentioned viagra), but I have grown to see them as community in-jokes (of various degrees of subtlety) that many people seem to appreciate under their current incarnations.
:We've recently removed the Main Page's more literal "there are # incomplete articles" announcement, which leaves the purpose of ''more accurately'' using the Incomplete tag a little less important. Apart from letting us dive into the (purported) list of Incomplete Explanations, one of the main ''serious'' purposes of the Incomplete tag is removed, leaving the now consistently employed purpose of doing a "Created by a THING OTHER THAN THE BOT" joke much more prominent.
:Really, all articles are potentially incomplete, still. Some more than others. Something big, like Hoverboard or Gravity, might truly have easter-eggs or subtle details as yet not properly commented upon, but there have been edits to ''double-digit'' comics recently which might be considered improvements. As such, there are really only two 'sensible' direct courses of action:
:#Completely remove the Incomplete tag, from use, as all pages are only ever as complete as the eye of any particular beholder, and the more recent pages are ''obviously'' incomplete by their being barely 15 minutes (or a day, or ''maybe'' a week) old. Or being so huge (or Time-like!) that they clearly still haven't been 'completely' documented. Maybe the BOT can add a Created By The Bot tag that gets wiped out by the first serious attempt at human editing, but if we wish to lose this part of our site culture so readily then why ever have it at all? A wikivote system is not really that accurate under these circumstances, for a number of reasons that I needn't explain, so go straight to assuming that any such 'vote' would pass, right from the off...
:#Embrace it for its THING OTHER THAN A BOT usage, alone. Don't be so eager to remove them just because you have no personal changes you'd wish to see. (Votes or not, there could always be another editor along in a minute who has, unlike the rest of you, picked up on an obscure visual pun rendered in what turns out to be hieroglyphs, or similar.) If we have to cull them (not a given!), then let it be an unstated rule (or a stated one?) that if there are more than (e.g.) half a dozen then the 'least amusing' may be removed by the first editor who wishes to express a critical opinion. Just the one at a time. No reinstating, no resurrection, no adding to old articles that never ever had a 'joke Incomplete' before, no entirely new joke (but you can refine what's there, to a degree), just a rolling (and not necessarily consecutive!) set of the "finest natjve explainxkcd wit". Or at least the least objectionable surviving examples of same.
:As a practical guide, the "reason why you think it is Incomplete element" could be entirely served by in-line tags (the "What?" and "Why?" and "Date?" things you might see elsewhere). Perhaps we could even do ''both'' things by instead having a "Complete" tag ''explicitly'' for BOT-REPLACEMENT-type tomfoolery (and tongue-in-cheekness about Completion, as we might currently be about Incometeness) from the off. That might confuse the newbods, of course. At least until it doesn't, and then they're not newbods anymore...
:The companion tag, for Incomplete Transcript, is presumably going to serve as it currently does (as a still serious hint as to actual Incompleteness), albeit that I've noticed a trend for the first editor of a brand new published comic to (possibly ''after'' doing the BOT-replacement joke, or after the editor who did ''only'' that) go straight in and enTranscript it (to varying degrees of accuracy and completion), whether or not they also then remove that specific tag-template at the same time. It seems that some people are more comfortable at providing a ''Transcript''ion-service than they are at establishing even the seed of an Explanation. (Or they only have enough time to do the latter, to the level of detail they wish to achieve in the moment open to them.)
:This is, of course, a cultural issue. All the above (from me) is just my own perception of practical aspects, notwithstanding those opinions already expressed before that (and elsewhere). I don't speak for everyone. And, as a perpetual IP, technically I should say that I don't speak for ''anyone'', either... [[Special:Contributions/172.70.160.140|172.70.160.140]] 14:21, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

::I like the idea of removing the Incomplete tag. What do you think? [[User:PDesbeginner|PDesbeginner]] ([[User talk:PDesbeginner|talk]]) 14:57, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
::I greatly approve of a {{what}} tag, as a Wikipedian that's actually really funny. I would want to keep the Incomplete tag, as I think it has purpose, even if it no longer represents a goal to achieve. I think this website will never reach 100.00% completeness and that is good, actually. [[User:Maplestrip|Maplestrip]] ([[User talk:Maplestrip|talk]]) 14:05, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
::Okay. If someone wants to they can just ignore the incomplete tags. [[User:PDesbeginner|PDesbeginner]] ([[User talk:PDesbeginner|talk]]) 14:37, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

== "As of <now>"... ==

What would be rather useful is an <code><nowiki>{{As of now}}</nowiki></code> template (or similar wording, and perhaps an "as of now"-cased alternative for use mid-sentence). There are many articles that will have words along the lines of "this has not yet happened, as of August 2024" or "this situation is continuing, as of August 2024". Every now and then, someone will come across one of these with an older date (perhaps only just out of date, perhaps years old) and [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1858:_4th_of_July&curid=20285&diff=348082&oldid=315524 edit it accordingly]. You could also seek them all out, deliberately, with a bit of effort in the search-bar.

(Note that "as of" does not ''always'' need updating, there are non-dated examples such as in [[1074: Moon Landing#Trivia]], static transcript versions, like [[1071: Exoplanets#Transcript]] and other instances where the text "as of", with or without a date, really does not need to be changed... but sometimes is anyway by a well-meaning passer-by.)

Sometimes, this can be done along with another useful edit/update/revision that is spotted, or is just one of the revisions that some other need for change conveniently allows. But it seems a bit vague to rely upon occasional attention. Instead the template will implement something like "<code><nowiki>As of {{Monthyear}}</nowiki></code>" (here having to use <code><nowiki>{{#time:F Y}}</nowiki></code>, ..."As of {{#time:F Y}}"...), though there's the possibility that a parameter-mediated switch can let it alternatively become a to-the-day-level format option (at which point you could even implement/calcuate something like {{template|Yesterday}} would be) or just to the year-level. (Or add {{template|As of this year}}, {{template|As of this month}} and {{template|As of this day}} separately.)

This would negate the need to ''just'' poke and prod any article that happened to 'need' updating every month (or year, or possible day). And to deal with the possibility that some of these cases might actually need to be edited because "as of" does ''not'' now apply, include within it a {{:Category:As of}} membership, letting anyone who is interested keep an eye on these aggregated 'As of's, ready to jump in there and change it to some straight up "Up until <fixed date>" equivalent should any one of them actually no longer apply.

...obviously, I can't even begin to create the template page required, but I'd be happy to work on the exact wikimedia code required if anyone thinks it needs anything but the most basic transcluded formatting and doesn't know how. Open to discussion, and I'll tag on more if I happen to see that discussion developing. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.186|172.70.162.186]] 18:04, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
:As an addendum/change to my above suggestion, considering a simpler {{template|as of}} (and {{template|As of}}) which does ''no'' automagical continuous updating (just gives the "as of" literal on its own), but still guarantees "Category:As of" membership, so that it doesn't actively give wrong (new) date+circumstance relationships in the likes of [[1047: Approximations]]. In that, the several mentions of populations can safely stay as old years until someone rewrites the proposed value and assessment as well, but it still could be a task to pursue every new year after checking the Cat for likely comics needing a quick check'n'edit.

== “Grammar Bot” ==
I’m working on a python based bot written with the Pywiki library that aims to use the replace.py scripts to fix simple grammatical mistakes, e.g. correcting Citation needed placements, cleaning up extra spaces, etc. I will be posting the code in a few weeks after I finish it (I’m a bit busy at the moment with school and orchestra) so the entire community can view it. Any thoughts on the idea? Thanks. [[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]] ([[User talk:42.book.addict|talk]]) 21:05, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
:First thoughts are that there are going to be so many exceptions. I definitely agree with the idea of {{template|Citation needed}}s being made consistent (if only it weren't sometimes complicated{{Citation needed}}), as well as that of mysterious extra spaces. But that's not really grammatical. Punctuation, in the first case. I fear a full (or even fragmentary) grammar-checker is going to be complicated and give many false positives.
:At least at first, perhaps have it ''report'' what it thinks it has found. You may discover definite times that it isn't necessary and it would indeed create new errors.
:At the very least, run it with two checklists: One to do an automatic replace.py and one to just report. Start with the first list empty. Introduce potential ones to the latter, review all the reports carefully, ''then'' move any sensible-looking ones to former.
:And have it not fighting other bots (particularly theusafBOT), perhaps selected users (e.g. the likes of Kynde, and of course yourself) or indeed itself (if it makes a change that might inadvertently trigger another 'check') by excluding such changes for a recheck/rechange. Keep a record of what it changed, so that if anybody reverts/recorrects something that seems to have gone wrong it doesn't force it 'wrong' again. At the simplest, give a whole page a decent time-out and/or number of subsequent limits before it ''considers'' a new change. Implement from the start the option of a 'whitelist' (of pages it can ignore) or 'blacklist' (of rules it shouldn't apply, or at least actively apply, to a given page), so you can quickly manually add a throttle-down by simple config-file rather than have to add in a code-kludge when something obviously (in hindsight!) needs correcting about the way it works. And also maybe throttle it to have no more than one bot-edit per hour (while starting from scratch) to not swamp the system and give the rest of us time to assess any errors it has made (and its successes!) - you can unstick that throttle later, when you consider it tested with all its backlog of microcorrections.
:...there are a few other guidelines I would suggest, but the cautiousness already present in the above approaches might mean that they are left as not so important. Just consider what ''could'' go wrong before unleashing it on our world.
:And all power to your elbow, it is of course something we all might have considered (I know I have... not that I have the login for it, but what really stopped me was knowing how badly I could mess it up by getting just one detail wrong if I tried it).
:Among changes/alerts I would have it make would be cases of {{template|cn}}, {{template|citation needed}}, etc, instead of the 'main' template. Plus []-links to either wikipedia pages (most of them should be {{template|w}}-templated) or explainxkcd.com pages (most of them should be [[]]ed), although there are even then some exceptions. It'd also be nice if it can identify all Talk (and Community Portal) contributions that were not signed (more complex, as some may be after the fact, or have been after several years and further editings). I know how I'd do all this, or think I do (only upon starting to do it can I be sure I've actually theorised it correctly!), but I mention this mostly to point out how ''you'' might want to cautiously implement ''your'' ideas. HTH. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.15|172.70.86.15]] 00:07, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
::you have made plenty of wonderful points that I clearly have not thought about-quite the critical oversight on my part. Is anyone interested in collaborating? I don’t think that my skills are good enough to satisfy all of those points. [[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]] ([[User talk:42.book.addict|talk]]) 01:06, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
:::hello? Anybody? Please help… [[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]] ([[User talk:42.book.addict|talk]]) 17:38, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
::::I believe this would be a great idea and also an incredibly complicated feat. Randall is no stranger to using weird punctuation in comics or misspelled words. I think it would be neat if it weren't automated and just reported errors it found so we could manually fix them, which would make its development much easier, but at that point it's very similar to a series of search queries for misspelled words, which we can already do. I have no coding skills so I'm not going to be of help. [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 17:33, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
;Update
I have found a solution to fix most grammatical mistakes, I just need to make sure that it doesn’t correct character names like “Cueball”, not edit war with other bots, come up with a system to log the edits it makes so that it doesn’t revert again, and fix Citation needed templates. I already know how to make sure that it asks me before editing, so I want to create an account to test it out. Does anybody have ideas on what to name the bot? I don’t want to call it 42.book.addictBOT, since the username would be a bit clunky. ToriBOT could work, but I’m also open to any other names. Feel free to reply to this or reply to me on my talk page! '''[[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]][[User talk:42.book.addict|Talk to me!]]''' 20:30, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

== "dark mode" ==
add dark mode [[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 09:54, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
:See [[User:Certified nqh/common.css]] or copy/paste my old [[User:42.book.addict/common.css|common.css]] page history into your common.css page: -42.book.addict [[Special:Contributions/172.69.134.208|172.69.134.208]] 16:10, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
::ha, thx tori, nqh's common.css works like a charm :) [[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 08:51, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

== reddit ==
Add reddit- Anonymous {{unsigned ip|172.71.214.80|08:31, 21 November 2024}}
:You probably need to explain what you mean by that. Add reddit discussions to here? Add this site to reddit? Add some simple link to one from the other? Something else? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.163|172.70.162.163]] 13:02, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
::>Add some simple link to one from the other?
::I have no idea what they meant either, but I hadn't thought of this! I could see the addition of a simple link to the comic template, like "https://reddit.com/r/xkcd/comments/{{PAGETITLE}" or "https://reddit.com/r/xkcd/search/?q={{PAGETITLE}"
::I don't partecipate much in the r/xkcd subreddit, so i'm not sure if they have structured post titles or even if they posted all the comics, or if it's automated, but I think this could be cool! Some people will likely come from Reddit, so it would be a straightforward way for them to go back. Thoughts? {{unsigned|FaviFake|16:55, 11 January 2025}}
== viewer ==
i propose to add random page to comic viewer {{unsigned ip|172.71.150.14|00:17, 25 February 2025}}
:There's already a "Random Page" link.
:If you mean (it's ambiguous!) a "Random Comic Page" link, then I'm not sure it's needed. There are so many "Comic pages" that it's a fairly good chance that you'll land on one of them for any given click, much more chance within two clicks. The likelihood of not getting a comic within ''three'' clicks will be tiny. Another way to do it is to just use the xkcd.com "Random" button, then (whichever comic you land on, which will be any but [[404]]), change the "xkcd.com" bit of the URL to "expxkcd.com" and... you end up here.
:If none of that really does what you want (especially if you mean something completely different from what I read it as), some more explanation would probably be appreciated. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.79.164|172.69.79.164]] 01:02, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
:If you want to make sure to land on all comics, you can go to "Special pages" on the sidebar, scroll down to "Random page in category", and enter "All comics". As far as I'm aware, there isn't really a way to automate this, so you have to keep inputting it manually. [[User:Firestar233|guess who]] ([[User talk:Firestar233|if you desire conversing]] | [[Special:Contributions/Firestar233|what i have done]]) 06:38, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
::I think they meant a button on the {{tl|comic}} template. Would it be technically possible to make it such that it works exacly like the one on the official site? --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 17:47, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
:::It ''should'' be a matter of using [[Special:RandomInCategory/All Comics]], I think, but doesn't seem to work when I try that exact attempt. Perhaps mediawiki or the mediawiki extension is not updated enough, or else I'm getting my wikisyntax slightly wrong.
:::Functionally, though, where the website has its Random button, we have our "go to the xkcd.com original", so more thought is needed before we just "add a button". If we do, we want it where the 'mothership' website does, but we still ought to have our details-and-link-to-original given, and I like it as a (faux) button.
::: Perhaps the {{template|comic}}, where it currently has header 'buttons':
[|<<] [Prev] [#9876 (Grune 32, 2525)] [Next] [>>|]
::: Needs to be changed to maybe:
[ #9876 (Grune 32, 2525) ]
[|<<] [Prev] [Random] [Next] [>>|]
:::...or equivalent. Haven't checked, but if it's a one-line table, can be easily made into a two-line one with colspan=3 (or 5?) in the right bit. If it's just centred, then it should come out Ok, in a simple way. But I'm not too keen on that change, really, and you'd need to actually have the Random->Comic link working first, ''anyway''. So I'm giving you my opinions and (slightly lacking) knowledge, in case that can at least make for the better outcome than either nothing (though not sure that's bad!) or some half-hearted ideas from elsewhere. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.116|172.70.86.116]] 21:52, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
:::: Unless someone can figure out the requests made by the random in category, a workaround could be to use a (pseudo)random number generator (mediawiki has a [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Template:Random_number template] on their website) to get a random number in the range of 1 - {{template|LATESTCOMIC}} and put in a link to that comic number using <nowiki>[[number]]</nowiki>.
:::: Note: There already is a "Random" template, but it was just using random page and was blanked by the person who made it [[User:Firestar233|guess who]] ([[User talk:Firestar233|if you desire conversing]] | [[Special:Contributions/Firestar233|what i have done]]) 03:50, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

== Misc pages ==
I would like to propose the creation of an additional category for "miscellaneous pages" that aren't really comics, and which generally have a URL slug that's an English word or phrase instead of a number. This includes xkcd.com/YES and xkcd.com/NO, both of which currently have articles. It also includes:
* http://xkcd.com/nakedpictures
* http://xkcd.com/spiral
* http://xkcd.com/burlap
* http://xkcd.com/simplewriter
* http://xkcd.com/tree_prank
* http://xkcd.com/blue_eyes (and xkcd.com/solution)
* http://xkcd.com/morphs (archive only)
* http://xkcd.com/chesscoaster
* http://xkcd.com/kite
* http://xkcd.com/dot

...and others as they are found or recovered.

If only we could access the forum thread mentioned on the YES and NO pages! I was able to find a link to the thread here, but it's inaccessible. A
It's the one labeled "Hidden pages on xkcd": https://web.archive.org/web/20170927200737/http://forums.xkcd.com/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=973b8a1dcd0a727a9177aa757108d4f6&start=250

I was able to find the pages above via Reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/xkcd/comments/gixd96/what_are_all_the_hidden_pages_on_xkcd_that_you/
https://www.reddit.com/r/xkcd/comments/35whzf/what/

[[User:Rumbling7145|Rumbling7145]] ([[User talk:Rumbling7145|talk]]) 00:16, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

===More pages found===
<div id="List of pages"></div>
Update: I got into the forum page! https://web.archive.org/web/20151206001238/http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=110093

We can now add these pages to the list:
* http://xkcd.com/election (archive only)
* http://xkcd.com/event (blank)
* http://xkcd.com/now (redirect to 1335)
* http://xkcd.com/plus
* http://xkcd.com/sub (archive only)
* http://xkcd.com/temp (archive only)
* http://xkcd.com/test (appears identical to regular site)
* http://xkcd.com/time (redirect to 1190)
* http://xkcd.com/twitter (archive only)

... and also
* http://xkcd.com/cyborg.txt
* http://xkcd.com/channel.html (archive only)
* http://xkcd.com/channel.txt (archive only)
* http://xkcd.com/me.txt (archive only)
* http://xkcd.com/why.txt (archive only)
[[User:Rumbling7145|Rumbling7145]] ([[User talk:Rumbling7145|talk]]) 23:37, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

:We now have everything we need, except the management questions above! --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:42, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

:Oh and there's also
*http://xkcd.com/bitcoin
:which we have dissected on the page [[Bitcoin address]] (very interesting read!), which is inside [[:Category:Design of xkcd.com]]. Should we use that category instead? --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 16:25, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

:Found another one!
*http://holistic.xkcd.com ([https://web.archive.org/web/20120318153220/https://holistic.xkcd.com/ archive link])
:--[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:55, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

*https://web.archive.org/web/20120127051815/https://aram.xkcd.com/

:might as well add this [[user talk:lett‪herebedarklight]] 14:33, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks! I removed the first one bc it was a duplicate and moved your message. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 16:01, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
* https://xkcd.com/verizon/ [[user talk:lett‪herebedarklight]] 04:05, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
* https://web.archive.org/web/20120321204721/http://mail.xkcd.com/ [[user talk:lett‪herebedarklight]] 04:14, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
* there was a /personal folder on xkcd, but it's been entirely wiped https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://xkcd.com/personal/* [[user talk:lett‪herebedarklight]] 04:20, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
* https://xkcd.com/color/rgb/
* https://xkcd.com/color/rgb.txt

===Other===
/test appears as a 404 for me.
[[User:Wobcomic|Wobcomic]] ([[User talk:Wobcomic|talk]]) 20:08, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
:Same! Someone should check how it looked in the archive --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 13:09, 15 March 2025 (UTC)
Made page for [[Dot]]. 🥰 [[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 19:30, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

===Problems===
This is great! I think we should first create an article for each of them, and after we have a few articles then we can start to figure out a good name for the category and answer some questions, like:
*Would [[Blue Eyes]] need to be removed from extra comics?
**To do that, we would have to ask an admin to edit the {{tl|comic}} template to allow us to do that.
*Should we add a new parameter to the template for these non-comics?
*Where should the new category be categorised?
*What name should we use for pages that don't have a name, like xkcd.com/dot? (that one is just titled "xkcd.com/dot", unlike pages like Blue Eyes and [[YES]]. Would it become "dot", "Dot", something else?)

I love the idea! I currently don't have time, but I will create these pages eventually. If anyone else wants to chime in, please do! --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 16:11, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

:"Unnumbered publications", or similar, could cover ''anything'' that wasn't xkcd.com/<digits>. Wouldn't cover replacements ([[2642: No One Was Hurt]] was originally 2642, for example), but that's a different class from deliberately off-series items. Also, given that often they are entirely non-image (the Yes and No), or straight text and multi-image (as per Blue Eyes, or other articles with a WhatIf-ish feel to them), I think calling them "comic"s is stretching the term.
:Though "miscellaneous pages" sort of covers this, I've a feeling that there's at least one... 'entity'... that is built upon multiple actual 'pages', but the list of candidates above doesn't contain any that look like they're what I'm vaguely thinking of. (Neither was it anything like the xkcd survey, or other interactive (numbered) comics, but maybe I'll bring it back to mind sooner rather than later.)
:As to the use of {{template|comic}}, I think we could spring to a (modified, 'inspired-by') template specifically for all these no-number/off-sequence explanation headers. Either explicit "prev=" and "next=" (per comic, ''could'' get quite mixed up if not kept uncontradictory) or a "position=" which could help maintain a list (and, from that, an auto-generated first/prev/next/last 'page ring') without having to subvert expectations of fitting in with the normal [[Template:LATESTCOMIC]] system.
:With the Comic template already equipped to deal with "no-number 'comics'", there wouldn't (in the first instance) be much work needed to "decomic" the new copy, with the exact method of resequencing (if desired) as a parallel series being the biggest question. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.49|172.70.85.49]] 17:20, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

::I have no idea what the last sentence (and a few others) mean(s), but I like the idea of a new template! However, I don't think we should call the category "Unnumbered publications". Isn't that just [[:Category:Extra comics]] but without DSU and No one was hurt? We should establish a criterion to add pages to this category and then figure out a name i think. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:42, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

====What do we name them?====
On this subject, is there any reason why it's [[YES]] and [[NO]] (currently the valid links) rather than [[Yes]] and [[No]] / [[yes]] and [[no]] (currently invalid links)? And I don't mean "why aren't there redirects?", which I don't even think is the right way of resolving this, but what was the thinking? (Which then didn't result in [[DOT]], etc, so there's ''definitely'' some inconsistency, one way or another.) [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.92|172.68.205.92]] 21:54, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

:I don't see any inconsistencies. The page for yes is titled (and I mean "the name of the browser tab is") "YES" by Randall, same for NO. Instead, the page for [[Dot]] is called "xkcd.com/dot/". We could use that, but that's likely not what Randall intended and might have been a coding oversight. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 16:01, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

== Captcha repeat ==

When you've finished editing, there is an "I'm not a robot" CAPTCHA.

But if you preview the changes before saving, that gets reset, so you can't just say "yup, looks good, go ahead and publish this change."

How hard would it be to make the CAPTCHA sticky, so that it doesn't need an extra interaction/mouse movement after previewing?

Or, alternatively, to not display either the CAPTCHA or the Save Changes until after a preview.

3074: Push Notifications

2025-04-14T18:47:01Z

JimJJewett: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 3074
| date = April 9, 2025
| title = Push Notifications
| image = push_notifications_2x.png
| imagesize = 277x347px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = NOTIFICATION: Now dismissing a head of the Notification Hydra… NOTIFICATION: Success! You have dismissed a head of the Notification Hydra! Different title text: :3
}}
To experience the interactivity of the game, visit the {{xkcd|3074|original comic}}.

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|
*The transcripts for the additional [[#Comic images]] are not detailed enough!

*The current explanation is too messy (unrelated paragraphs and too many bullet points). If needed, reorganise it, use tables, or divide it into subsections. Also, the explanation for the title text is too far down, make it more prominent.

*The gallery is missing many image links! Links to all images are on the index.js at ''https://xkcd.com/3074/marconi/static/js/index.js?v{{=}}1''. You can easily identify them, they look like this: '''static/xyz.png'''
**Since [https://xkcd.com/3074/marconi/static/js/index.js?v{{=}}1 that same link] contains all the comic pictures, ''including each notification'', we might as well use them to showcase the normal onboarding flow. Upload the notification pictures in order (take them from [https://xkcd.com/3074/marconi/static/js/index.js?v{{=}}1 here], by using Ctrl+F to search for "static/" and then pasting into the URL), and create a new section for them! (Make sure to download the bigger version, labelled "4x" instead of "2x"!)}}
[[File:zoom_turtle.png|thumb|500px|The turtle that appears when graphing the coordinates from the [[3074: Push Notifications/Table of Notifications#Zoom notifications|zoom notifications]].]]This interactive comic is the 15th [[:Category:April fools' comics|April Fools' Day]] comic released by Randall, just over a week late. It uses {{w|push notifications}} to change the comic image over time and make other statements.

Upon viewing the comic for the first time, a sequence of notifications will be rendered over the comic itself. The notifications have a fade-in animation and appear one after another. The sequence is divided into several "groups" of notifications, each containing up to 4 regular notifications and an interactable button, which has a circled arrow icon to the right as well as a different text color. Clicking the arrow removes all notifications on screen and proceeds the sequence to the next group.

At the end of the sequence, a red-background option to sign up for xkcd notifications is presented. This part differs depending on if the user is "playing" from a mobile or desktop browser.

* On desktop, clicking this will result in the browser prompting the user to allow or block xkcd.com's request to send push notifications. By allowing, the game begins. If blocked, the comic shows a message "An actual error occurred {{nowrap|:(}}", and the laptop bursts into flames (see the image in the [[#Comic images|table below]]). It also blows up in response to any other browser error, such as a 500 Internal Server Error, which is reported to happen if you click the pause button too quickly.{{Actual citation needed}}

* On mobile, a new on-screen notification will show up, telling the user to add xkcd.com to their home screen in order for it to send push notifications on mobile. Upon doing so and opening the webpage from the home screen, the system will prompt the user to allow or block push notifications from this webpage. The outcomes of allowing and denying are the same as on desktop.

Once the game begins, you are provided with two buttons: one labeled "Emergency Stop", and one labeled "Silence notifications at a cost". Clicking the "Emergency Stop" button allows you to either restart the full game or to subscribe just to thrice-weekly notifications for new xkcd comics, while the second button will silence notifications at the cost of notifying two random people.

The title text references the {{w|Lernaean Hydra}}, a multi-headed serpent-like monster from Greek mythology; the Greek hero {{w|Heracles}} was tasked with slaying the Hydra as {{w|Labours_of_Hercules#Second:_Lernaean_Hydra|the second of his twelve labours}}. When he cut off one of its heads, however, two heads would grow in its place, resulting in more heads than before; Heracles soon realized he could not kill the Hydra in this fashion. It describes a similar situation with the "Notification Hydra": a push notification "head" of the Notification Hydra was dismissed, which subsequently spawned two more push notification heads providing updates about the status of the dismissal. If one of these new notifications were to be dismissed, it would again spawn another set of the same two push notification heads; thus, the Notification Hydra is unkillable in a manner similar to the original.

The subdirectory where the images and scripts for this comic are stored is titled 'marconi,' which is likely a reference to the Italian engineer and inventor of the same name, {{w|Guglielmo Marconi}}, who is credited with inventing the radio, and did much work in the field of early communication systems.

Up to 7 clickable cats periodically spawn at predetermined positions around the page, including one on the edge of the Emergency Stop button.

For a table of all notification messages, see [[3074: Push Notifications/Table of Notifications]].

A general list of notification types include:
* A few starter notifications about this comic, the successful sending of a notification of this comic, and the lack of another comic.

* An announcement that an old comic was posted, specifying a (seemingly) random comic and its publication date. The publication date seems to be shown in a random {{w|Calendar date|calendar date format}}.

* A word game where a first notification asks you to type a word, with further notifications to be sent whenever someone chooses the same word as you.
** The word can be chosen by clicking on the first notification, which lands you in the comic page. The comic pane will be changed to a comic-style input dialogue with a space for the word and a submit button. Upon providing a word, a notification informs you that you will then receive notifications (of the form "Someone else has selected the word <Your Word>!"), and that your choice is permanent and cannot be changed. You can also submit a blank text field, thus receiving "Someone else has selected the word !" notifications.

* A "streak" notification counting the number of times you've clicked it. The message changes first every 10 clicks, then every 50 clicks (after 100) and then at increasing intervals. After every 50 clicks there is an offer to make future clicks count twice, making this a simple version of {{w|Cookie Clicker}}. If you choose to accept the offer by clicking on it, it will reset your clicks back to zero but makes all future clicks count double of the current click rate; you can also reject the offer by continuing to click on the click counter message. There are occasionally notifications encouraging you to keep clicking and "extend your streak," tempting you with "a free click to keep you going". After 400 clicks it will reset your clicks back to zero but makes all future clicks count four times.
** Early notifications encourage further clicking.
** Approaching a hundred, the messages grow more concerned and later start warning that the server will crash or has crashed.
** Above 750: "Are you just doing this to annoy me?"
** 1000-2000: "You're just doing this to annoy you?"
** Above 2000: "I guess it worked"
** Above 1000000: "Wow, you're really into this"

* A "have you seen my cat?" notification which causes all the cats to spawn when clicked.

* Cat fact notifications that appear when a cat is clicked, in reference to [https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/owx3v/so_my_little_cousin_posted_on_fb_that_he_was/ this exchange].

* Various "Erroneous Alerts" with a warning triangle {{w|emoji}} (⚠ U+26A0), some with just flavor text, some corresponding to changes in the comic image.

* "Zoom notifications" including numeric coordinates, sometimes prefixed with "oh look!"; plotting these coordinates creates an image that appears to be a turtle, which could be a reference to [[1416: Pixels]].

* "Constant reminders" with references to mathematical, physical, or some other constants. The constant values are stated to be "at the tone", likely in reference to {{w|Speaking clock|time-of-day phone services}}, which are live or recorded human voice services that tell you the exact time "at the third stroke" over the phone. (In at least some portions of the USA, the wording did use "tone" rather than "strike." For example, "At the tone, the time will be 2:32pm, and 10 seconds ... (beep)")

* A notification that offers to provide weather alerts for your location, which leads into a series of notifications asking whether you live in a named city. If none of the cities that it knows are selected, your location is set to the summit of {{w|Mount Washington}}.

* When the time is near a full hour or half-hour, that the current time is five o'clock.

* An invitation to subscribe to the "What if?" YouTube channel

* A notification with the heading "System Log" that reads (INFO): A user has paused notifications
** This notification presumably appears when a random user has pressed the "Silence notifications at a cost" button.

* A reminder to comment and subscribe. When click on it will redirect to one of various Wikipedia pages, including: {{w|Talk:Mathematics}}, {{w|Talk:Romance}}, {{w|Talk:Language}}, {{w|Talk:Alarm_fatigue}}, {{w|Talk:Boneless}}, {{w|Talk:Sitting}}, {{w|Category talk:Unix text editors}}, {{w|Talk:Robot}}, {{w|Talk:Jamming avoidance response}}, {{w|Talk:Squircle}}, {{w|Talk:Like}}, {{w|Talk:Drafting linen}}, {{w|Talk:Hot dog}}, {{w|Talk:Goomba}}, {{w|Talk:Tidal locking}}, {{w|Talk:Multiple unit}}, {{w|Talk:Flag semaphore}}, {{w|Talk:Stoating}}, {{w|Talk:Roseate_spoonbill}}, {{w|Talk:Teleportation}}, {{w|Talk:List of dumplings}}, {{w|Talk:List of hat styles}}, {{w|Talk:Cats and the Internet}}, {{w|Talk:Laminar flow}}, {{w|Talk:Time management}}, {{w|Talk:Hole}}, {{w|Talk:Spot welding}}, {{w|Talk:Myst}}, {{w|Talk:Agriculture in ants}}, {{w|Talk:East}}, {{w|Talk:Smoot}}.

* A "{{w|Carriage return|Carriage Return}} Line Feed", referencing the Windows standard of storing line returns as a carriage return character followed by a line feed (newline) character. However, the xkcd Carriage Return Line Feed is instead a news feed concerning the next stop on a supposed "Carriage Return Line" of a train system. The announcements are all related to stations on the {{w|London Underground}}, including the use of the phrase "{{w|Mind the gap}}".

===Comic images===
{|class="wikitable"
!Image
!Transcript and explanation
|-

| [[File:3074_normal.png|240px]]
| Cueball sitting at his desk, with his laptop.

|-
| [[File:3074_big_laptop.png|240px]]
| Cueball sitting at his desk, with a very large laptop.

|-
| [[File:3074_plant_small.png|240px]]
| Cueball sitting at his desk, with a small potted plant.

|-
| [[File:3074_pot_squirrel.png|240px]]
| Cueball sitting at his desk, with a squirrel in the pot.

|-
| [[File:3074_plant_big.png|240px]]
| Cueball sitting at his desk, with a much larger plant that has clearly outgrown the pot, at least vertically.

|-
| [[File:3074_big_plant_cat_A.png|240px]]
| Cueball sitting at his desk with the larger plant, with a cat on one of the branches.

|-
| [[File:3074_big_plant_cat_B.png|240px]]
| A second image of Cueball sitting at his desk with the larger plant with a cat on one of the branches, but in a different spot.

|-
| [[File:3074 Desk with Cat Foreground.png|240px]]
| Cueball sitting at his desk, with a cat in the foreground near the point of view.

|-
| [[File:3074_cat_chair.png|240px]]
| Cueball sitting at his desk, his chair replaced with a large cat.

|-
| [[File:3074_computer_fire.png|240px]]
| Cueball sitting farther back from his desk, with the laptop on the desk on fire. This image only appears if [https://xkcd.com xkcd.com] is denied the permission to send notifications (see the [[#Explanation|explanation above]]).

|-
| [[File:3074_float.png|240px]]
| Cueball, the desk, and the laptop floating in the air.

|-
| [[File:3074_spin.png|240px]]
| Cueball spinning in his chair.

|-
| [[File:3074_desk_sit.png|240px]]
| Cueball sitting on the desk, facing the laptop on the chair.

|-
| [[File:3074_gameover.png|240px]]
| The desk vacant with "Game Over" displayed if you use the emergency stop.

|-
| [[File:3074_sword.png|240px]]
| Cueball sitting at his desk, with a laptop on the desk, and a sword leaning against the desk on the other side.

|-
| [[File:3074_swordfight.png|240px]]
| Cueball and Ponytail swordfighting while the computer has an hourglass icon, referencing [[303: Compiling]].

|-
| [[File:3074_flooding.png|240px]]
| The room flooded 2/3 of the way up the desk. Cueball is still sitting with his laptop.

|-
| [[File:3074_sailboat.png|240px]]
| The same flooding, with a miniature sailboat behind Cueball.

|-
| [[File:3074_flooding_cat.png|240px]]
| The same flooding, with a cat face behind Cueball.

|-
| [[File:3074_Flooded_Shark_Fin.png|240px]]
| The same flooding, with a shark fin on the far side of the desk, facing toward Cueball.

|-
| [[File:3074_longtable.png|240px]]
| Cueball sitting at the desk, which has been extended behind his laptop like a long meeting table.

|-
| [[File:3074_nocueball.png|240px]]
| No Cueball, only the chair, desk, and laptop.

|-
| [[File:3074_nodesk.png|240px]]
| Cueball using the laptop on his lap, with no desk.

|-
| [[File:3074_squirrel_on_head.png|240px]]
| Cueball with a squirrel on his head.

|-
| [[File:3074_squirrel.png|240px]]
| A squirrel sitting at the desk, seemingly using the laptop.

|-
| [[File:3074_standing.png|240px]]
| Cueball standing on top of the laptop keyboard.

|-
| [[File:gallery_placeholder.png|240px]]
| Cueball sitting at the desk, wearing a wizard hat.

|-
| [[File:3074_floor.png|240px]]
| Cueball sitting on the floor behind the desk.

|-
| [[File:3074_tentacles.png|240px]]
| Cueball sitting in his chair, shielding his face from a tentacle coming from the computer screen.

|-
| [[File:3074_tall_chair.png|240px]]
| Cueball sitting at his desk, typing on his laptop, while in an oversized office chair – likely a reference to [[2144: Adjusting a Chair]].

|-
| [[File:3074_cat.png|240px]]
| The cat that appears after returning to the comic window after leaving it idle for long period of time. It has a unique title text of ":3".
|}

[[Category:Math]]

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Need to finish the transcript in the table ABOVE, it's not detailed enough.}}
:[Cueball sits at a desk in an office chair. He is typing on a computer.]
:[Gray message boxes with a small circled “x” at the top right corner are shown:]
:Happy April 1st (observed)!
:To celebrate, we were excited to introduce a new xkcd.com feature: push notifications for new comics!
:Unfortunately, this feature has gone horribly wrong.
:Until further notice, we are asking people ''NOT'' to sign up for new comic notifications.
:Frankly, we recommend not even clicking on any notifications to learn more.
:''Click this notification to learn more!'' (a circled arrow is shown)

:“Push notifications for new comics” sounds like a simple feature, right?
:There’s a nice API for browser notifications. xkcd updates three times a week.
:So you just send a notification for each update, right?
:That’s what we thought, too.
:''Click to continue!'' (a circled arrow is shown)

:[To the side of the comic frame is a big, horizontal hexagonal stop sign]
:Sign: Emergency STOP
:Below the sign: ''Halt ALL notifications and forget everything''
:The good news is that we did build a button to stop xkcd new comic notifications.
:You can press this button at any time and the system will stop sending you notifications.
:The nightmare will be over and the server will forget you ever existed.
:This part definitely works.
:''The rest of the system does NOT work.'' (a circled arrow is shown)

:We’re sorry.
:We don’t know how things went so wrong.
:The system is sending more than three notifications a week. A LOT more.
:We cannot recommend signing up for xkcd new comic notifications at this time.
:''Click here to ignore the warnings.'' (a circled arrow is shown)

:No, really.
:Our notification system may send a large number of very real system notifications.
:These may flood your browser, displace other notifications, and cause problems.
:<big>⚠️DO NOT ENABLE XKCD NEW COMIC NOTIFICATIONS⚠️</big>
:''Yeah, I get it, but I definitely want to enable xkcd new comic notifications.'' (a circled arrow is shown)

:Are you sure?
:''Yes!'' (a circled arrow is shown)
:Absolutely sure?
:''YES!!'' (a circled arrow is shown)
:To enable push notifications on mobile you need to add xkcd.com to your home screen.

:''Click here to subscribe to xkcd notifications''

:[Initial static image shows Cueball sat on an office chair at a desk using a laptop computer. A notification 'window' is speech-bubbled above the computer]
:[Grey notification box, header:] April 1st (Observed)
:[Notification box, further text:] Open xkcd.com to view.
:Laptop: [Warning sign.]

:[When viewed live, various xkcd-style popover notifications appear, each can be dismissed or (usually the last on every page) invited to press an 'onwards'-style button.]

:[First page of messages]
:Happy April 1st! To celebrate, we were excited to introduce a new xkcd.com feature: Push Notifications for new comics!
:Unfortunately, this feature has gone horribly wrong.
:Until further notice, we are asking people NOT to sign up for new comic notifications.
:Frankly, we recommend not even clicking on any notifications to learn more.
:[Notification with 'onwards button':] ''Click on this notification to learn more''

:[Upon choosing to continue, further messages appear, replacing any prior ones left open]
:"Push Notifications for new comics" sounds like a simple feature, right?
:There's a nice API for browser notifications, xkcd updates three times a week.
:So you just send a notification for each upafte, right?
:That's what we thought, too.
:[Notification with 'onwards button':] ''Click on this notification to continue''

:[Next set of popover messages]
:The good news is that we did build a button to STOP xkcd new comic notifications.
:You can press this button at any time and the system will stop sending you notifications.
:The nightmare will be over and the server will forget you ever existed.
:This part definitely works.
:[Notification with 'onwards':] ''The rest of the system does not work.''
:[To the right of the comic frame, a red, octagonal button has white text upon it:]Emergency Stop
:[Below the button is red text:] Halt all notifications and forget everything

:[Next set of popovers, "stop" button remains permanently so long as you continue]
:We're sorry.
:We didn't know how things went so wrong.
:The system is sending more than three notifications at this time.
:['Onwards' notification:] ''Click here to ignore the warnings''

:[Next set.]
:No, really.
:Our notification system may send a large amount of very real system notifications.
:These may flood your browser, displace other notifications, and cause problems.
:[Text bookended by warning triangles:] Do not enable xkcd new comic notifications
:['Onwards':] Yeah, I get it, but I definitely want to enable xkcd new comic notifications

:[Just two popovers, initially]
:Are you sure?
:['Onwards':] Yes
:[On clicking onwards, two more appear below]
:Absolutely sure?
:['Onwards':] Yes!!
:[On clicking, a further popover]
:[Red-tinted 'onwards'-style popover with warnings:] Click here to subscribe to xkcd notifications.

:[...something appeared then dissappeared...]
:[Genuine(?) browser dialogue activated:] xkcd.com wants to send you notifications. Block / Allow

:[If allowed, one more popover in the original style]
:Success!!
:[Below the Emergency Stop button, an oval gray button appears labeled in white:] Silence notifications at a cost
:[Below that, in grey text:]Temporarily pause your notifications at the cost of notifying two random people.

:[Further changes include the contents of the comic. The transcript for these changes is available on the [[#Comic images|Comic images section]].]

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Interactive comics]]
[[Category:April fools' comics]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Squirrels]]
[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Cats]]
[[Category:Computers]]

Talk:3075: Anachronym Challenge

2025-04-14T18:09:41Z

JimJJewett: /* silverware made of silver */

Shouldn't "Anachronym" be "Anachronism"? The listed items aren't archaic acronyms. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.63.83|162.158.63.83]] 17:30, 11 April 2025 (UTC)
:No, "-nym" means name, so this is names that are outdated [[Special:Contributions/104.23.190.60|104.23.190.60]] 17:36, 11 April 2025 (UTC)
:: (The OP) Ah, I see now. An anachronym is a term used in an anachronistic way (like tin foil which isn't made of tin anymore), where an anacronym is an word that started as an acronym but is now treated as a word (people no longer think of it as an acronym). Neither term being in common parlance, and being only one letter different, my search for a definition got them confused.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.35.94|172.70.35.94]] 00:20, 12 April 2025 (UTC)

I'm not sure why he should be paying with paper money. He can easily pay by credit card ... using virtual debit card on his phone. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 17:46, 11 April 2025 (UTC)
: Paper money might not be made from paper anymore - at least, it isn't in NZ, where I live. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.0.130|172.69.0.130]] 17:53, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

::I think “paper money” is about paper no longer being made from papyrus. US bank notes are printed on rag paper, which is indeed a kind of paper despite containing little or no wood pulp.--[[User:Seakingsoyuz|Seakingsoyuz]] ([[User talk:Seakingsoyuz|talk]]) 18:20, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

:::Agreed. Rag paper is not just "a kind of paper", it's the original kind of paper (papyrus is not paper in any usual sense, because it is not made from pulped fibers). When paper was invented in China, it was made from rag fibers, and it was still made like that when it was first produced in Europe.

:: I don't think 'paper money' should be designated as being made of paper here. Everyone knows that paper money doesn't feel or act like paper. It's incredibly hard to rip. [[User:DollarStoreBa'al|DollarStoreBa'al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al|talk]]) 18:27, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

::: Being Canadian, I thought the reference here was to what's described at Wikipedia as [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymer_banknote Polymer banknotes]. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.127.25|162.158.127.25]] 18:28, 12 April 2025 (UTC)

:The "card" in credit card seems to come from Latin and Greek for a piece of paper or papyrus. So a credit card, now made of plastic, metal, semiconductors, etc. might be considered an anachronym. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.41.95|162.158.41.95]] 19:20, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

Adults who "enjoy" rubber ducks include programmers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_duck_debugging [[Special:Contributions/172.71.95.27|172.71.95.27]] 18:40, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

The word money came from words that meant coin. The word coin evidently came from wedge shaped. Not quite anachronym, though somewhat anachronism. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.41.95|162.158.41.95]] 19:11, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

Surprised "lead pencil" didn't make the list [[Special:Contributions/172.68.12.109|172.68.12.109]] 19:13, 11 April 2025 (UTC)
:Not quite the same category. The core of wooden pencils never contained lead, that was always a misnomer by people who didn't know it was actually carbon. [[User:ChaoticNeutralCzech|ChaoticNeutralCzech]] ([[User talk:ChaoticNeutralCzech|talk]]) 08:07, 14 April 2025 (UTC)

Duck Tape is no longer made from ducks! [[User:IIVQ|IIVQ]] ([[User talk:IIVQ|talk]]) 19:30, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

:It Actually got its name from being made from "duck fabric," a kind of heavy very tightly woven cotton fabric. Then there was confusion by a brand putting a picture of a duck on the label, and people using it to join segments of heating ducts together, making people falsely think it was originally called "duct tape," with duck being a fanciful brand name. Originally though it was developed for the military in WW1 to seal ammunition boxes in a waterproof way, but due to widespread improvised uses by soldiers, post war they decided to market it to civilians.--[[Special:Contributions/172.71.255.102|172.71.255.102]] 17:11, 14 April 2025 (UTC)

"digital money" shouldn't be listed as what "paper money" is actually made out of. Nobody would say "I'm paying with paper money" if they are paying with some digital currency. The anachronism is "paper money" being actually made of linen or whatever hi-tech fibers. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.254.211|172.70.254.211]] 19:49, 11 April 2025 (UTC) anonymous user
:Not even ''fibers''. Sheet-polymers (with loads of complex embedded and pressed-in features) are becoming the new go-to for banknotes, in a number of countries. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.135|172.68.205.135]] 23:24, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

My wife suggests that this is much easier if you are tech shopping: Apple, Mouse, Spam, Phish, Cookies.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.78.225|162.158.78.225]] 20:03, 11 April 2025 (UTC)
:"Click mouse to accept cookie" meme - featuring rodent and confection. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/06/e6/7d/06e67d6ee5a2afa112bf548463e97125.jpg [[Special:Contributions/172.70.35.94|172.70.35.94]] 00:20, 12 April 2025 (UTC)
:That's not in the same category since computer mice were never ''made of'' actual mice. Anyway, I'm sure there are some examples in tech: '''compressed air''' (gas duster) cans do not actually contain nitrogen or oxygen but a mixture of hydrocarbon gases that can be liquified at pressures obtainable in a cheap can to drastically increase the volume ratio, but I can imagine people might have used actual pressurized air containers for dusting at some point (though likely not commercially). [[User:ChaoticNeutralCzech|ChaoticNeutralCzech]] ([[User talk:ChaoticNeutralCzech|talk]]) 08:07, 14 April 2025 (UTC)

Not sure why "sidewalk chalk" on there and who decides that calcium carbonate is allowed to be called chalk, but calcium sulphate is not. --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.196|108.162.216.196]] 05:25, 12 April 2025 (UTC)
:I came here wondering why it was on the list, but for a different reason: It's never been made from sidewalks. Yes, I actually needed to read the list to clear up the misconception. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.127.25|162.158.127.25]] 18:28, 12 April 2025 (UTC)
::Because, other than the use we give it as "thing you write on blackboards with", chalk is originally a stone made of relatively loose calciulm carbonate (limestone mostly made from foraminifers), which is what was used to write on slate blackboards before we started making them out of pressed gypsum. --[[Special:Contributions/172.64.238.130|172.64.238.130]]

You can still buy solid cast-iron irons. Although I doubt anyone actually uses them for smoothing clothes, more for decoration. [[User:SDSpivey|SDSpivey]] ([[User talk:SDSpivey|talk]]) 16:23, 14 April 2025 (UTC)

== Steel ==

{{w|Stainless steel}} ''does'' contain Fe, so "iron" ain't ''that'' "wrong". [[Special:Contributions/172.70.35.95|172.70.35.95]] 05:48, 12 April 2025 (UTC)
:We have long made a distinction between "iron" and "steel", not to mention that, while stainless steel has about 1% carbon by weight (give or take: sometime more, sometimes less), since carbon is over 4 times lighter than iron, that makes about 4% (and up to 10%) of the atoms carbon, not to mention that, to be stainless, it has to either have a by weight composition of either over 10% chromium or over 8% nickel, which are almost the same weight as iron (a difference of around 5%, lower for chromium, higher for nickel). Given that the average stainless steel has a 18% by weight of chromium, adding that with the carbon means that only 3 out of 4 atoms are iron, and if you have copper and tin or copper and tin in that same ratio, it would long have surpassed the line to be called "bronze" or "brass", respectively. "Having iron atoms" is not the same as "made of iron", mainly when it originally was indeed made out of (wrought) iron. --[[Special:Contributions/188.114.111.245|188.114.111.245]]
::99% is a way higher percentage than say, the amount of nickel in nickels ($0.05 coins): 25% ({{w|Nickel (United States coin)|US}}) or 2% ({{w|Nickel (Canadian coin)|Canadian}}). The latter might qualify for this list because it actually used to be made of near-pure nickel, while the US coin's composition never changed since the first (1866) version that became known as the "nickel". [[User:ChaoticNeutralCzech|ChaoticNeutralCzech]] ([[User talk:ChaoticNeutralCzech|talk]]) 11:48, 14 April 2025 (UTC)

Steel (stainless or otherwise) does not occur naturally. It has to be made. By humans. Out of iron. So in this case 'having iron atoms' DOES mean 'made of (as a synonym of 'from') iron'. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.129|172.70.86.129]] 04:11, 14 April 2025 (UTC)

::Bronze contains mostly copper. So I assume you would call it copper, too. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.130.67|162.158.130.67]] 11:15, 14 April 2025 (UTC)

"Cutlery" specifically refers to metallic implements with a cutting edge. Knives, scissors, and swords are cutlery; Spoons and forks are not cutlery. Table knives, forks, and spoons, collectively are "flatware". [[Special:Contributions/162.158.164.155|162.158.164.155]] 10:01, 12 April 2025 (UTC)
:I was really hoping to re-edit that element, anyway. The comic says "silverware" which can relate to cutlery/other food-implements or to the plates or candlesticks or even ''trophies''. Someone assumed that meant cutlery(+dining implements in general). As well as other improvable writing about the assumption they went with. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.58.49|172.70.58.49]] 22:58, 12 April 2025 (UTC)

I assume the confusion comes from the respecive British and American terms for a collection of forks, knives, and spoons. British English calls these things "cutlery" even if they don't have a cutting edge. American English commonly refers to these as "silverware," especially when made with stainless steel, although I have also heard the term "plastic silverware" or "wooden silverware" when "flatware" would probably have been a more accurate generic term. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.163.35|172.70.163.35]] 18:09, 13 April 2025 (UTC) (an American expat)

== Paper ==

I just want to point out that paper made from cotton fibers instead of wood pulp ''is still paper''. You can buy it in the store. There are non-paper banknotes now, but not in the U.S., and I'd be surprised if polymer banknotes were ever called "paper money". [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] ([[User talk:LtPowers|talk]]) 12:35, 12 April 2025 (UTC)
:Be surprised. That's what they're usually called in Canada. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.127.164|162.158.127.164]] 18:29, 12 April 2025 (UTC)
::And anywhere with polymer bills. "Paper money" = bills. Still, it's true that cotton-linen paper is still paper, so is hemp paper and any other paper made from cellulose fibers (paper can be categorized by cellulose source, average fiber length, thickness, impurities and papermaking method). You can even make paper out of old clothes made from vegetable textiles (like blue jeans, cotton T-shirts or hemp pants). As a weird side note, there are non-cellulose papers, like silk paper, but they are made in the same way as regular paper (which is not how plymer bills are made, to my understanding)--[[Special:Contributions/188.114.111.245|188.114.111.245]]
:::Yeah, I've always heard of it as "paper money" --[[User:Xnerkcd|xnerkcd]] ([[User talk:Xnerkcd|talk]]) 07:10, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

== silverware made of silver ==

When I typed started typing "silverware made" into Google, it suggested "silverware real silver", which brought up a very ad-heavy results page. A few of them were re-selling vintage silverware, but most seemed to be offering "new" designs. I had to scroll down several pages before I found stuff that looked even like a catalog, rather than an ad for one particular possible purchase.

But since it seems like a competitive market, and I wasn't patient enough to look for an informational marketing page, I don't feel comfortable picking one (or several) particular ads as the citation.

Perhaps someone else does. Or perhaps a screenshot archived somewhere. [[User:JimJJewett|JimJJewett]] ([[User talk:JimJJewett|talk]]) 18:09, 14 April 2025 (UTC)

Talk:3075: Anachronym Challenge

2025-04-14T18:08:04Z

JimJJewett: /* silverware made of silver */ new section

3063: Planet Definitions

2025-03-14T23:57:54Z

JimJJewett: /* Explanation */ grammar nit

{{comic
| number = 3063
| date = March 14, 2025
| title = Planet Definitions
| image = planet_definitions_2x.png
| imagesize = 653x1435px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = Under the 'has cleared its orbital neighborhood' and 'fuses hydrogen into helium' definitions, thanks to human activities Earth technically no longer qualifies as a planet but DOES count as a star.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|The explanation is too short.}}

This comic addresses the {{w|IAU definition of planet|controversy of whether of Pluto is a planet}} and gives many other humorous definitions, most of them fairly nonsensical, of what a planet could be.

;Traditionalist: {{w|Pluto}} is a planet (9 planets)
:In modern times, there was {{w|IAU definition of planet#Background|no formal definition of a "planet"}} prior to 2006. However, it was generally accepted as a colloquialism that there were nine planets around the {{w|Sun}}, Pluto included. As more sophisticated methods of mapping the {{w|Solar System}} were developed and {{w|Eris (dwarf planet)|Eris}} was discovered to be even more massive than Pluto, it became clear to astronomers that a more standardized definition was needed. In 2006 the International Astronomical Union (IAU) published their formal redefinition of a "planet" to require a planet to be gravitationally dominant within its orbit, disqualifying Pluto (and Eris) which is now considered a "dwarf planet." This has been subject to push back from countless people, including [https://arxiv.org/abs/2110.15285 some planetary scientists], but in numbers mostly nostalgic laypeople dissatisfied with Pluto being "demoted" or otherwise relegated.
;Modern: Pluto is not a planet (8 planets)
:When the IAU redefined what a planet is in 2006, Pluto no longer qualifies as a planet. (since it wasn't able to clear its neighborhood around its orbit) Using the modern definition of a planet, only eight celestial objects qualified.
;Expansive: Dwarf planets are planets (17+ planets)
:It is likely that since the term "dwarf planet" contained "planet" in its name, Randall considered those as also planets under this category.
:It is also likely that the number of planets includes the ones that are considered planets and the ones that are considered to have compacted into fully solid bodies, {{w|Dwarf planet#Most likely dwarf planets| as defined by Grundy ''et al.'',}} those being {{w|Ceres (dwarf planet)|Ceres}}, Pluto, Eris, {{w|Makemake}}, {{w|Gonggong (dwarf planet)|Gonggong}}, {{w|Quaoar}}, {{w|Orcus (dwarf planet|Orcus}} and {{w|Sedna (dwarf planet)|Sedna}}.
;Ultratraditionalist: Only the classical planets are planets (5 planets)
:The {{w|classical planets}} are objects found and considered by the Greek astronomers in classical antiquity to be considered planets. Their definition of "planet" considered visible objects that move across the sky relative to the fixed stars. There are seven classical planets, but if one were to only consider the ones that fall under the IAU's definition of a planet (this being ''less'' traditional), then there would only be five. (The Sun and the {{w|Moon}} would be disqualified)
;Condescending: Only giant planets are planets; the rest are big {{w|asteroid}}s (4 planets)
:This definition may refer to the {{w|giant planets}}, planets much larger than the {{w|Earth}}. Only the four outer planets fall under this definition.
;Simplistic: Anything gravitationally round is a planet (37+ planets)
:Using the Wikipedia {{w|list of gravitationally rounded objects of the Solar System}}, there are 37 objects listed. That includes the Sun, 7 planets, 10 dwarf planets and 19 {{w|Natural satellite|moon}}s.
;Grounded: Only objects a spaceship has landed on are planets (10 planets)
:This list includes objects in the Solar System that a spacecraft has {{w|List of landings on extraterrestrial bodies| performed a soft landing on}}. The list includes {{w|Venus}}, Earth, {{w|Mars}}, the Moon, {{w|Titan (moon)|Titan}}, {{w|433 Eros|Eros}}, {{w|25143 Itokawa|Itokawa}}, {{w|162173 Ryugu|Ryugu}} and {{w|101955 Bennu|Bennu}}. Notably, {{w|comet}} landings are not included in the list.
;Regolithic: Anything covered in dirt and ice and stuff is a planet (infinite)
:This list excludes the {{w|Gas Giant}}s and the {{w|Ice Giant}}s. The list would likely include dwarf planets, asteroids, moons and comets.
;Lunar: You can't be a planet if you don't have a moon (12+ objects)
:Only some objects in the solar system have known and acknowledged moons orbiting them. The value given may be {{w|List of natural satellites| the number of planets and dwarf planets}} that have moons, when excluding {{w|Haumea}} for not reaching {{w|hydrostatic equilibrium}} despite having moons. The Sun is excluded because its satellites are not moons, because ... oh, look, a Squirrel!
;Solipsistic: Earth is the only planet (1 planet)
:{{w|Solipsism}} is the idea that only one's own mind is sure to exist. Randall extrapolated this idea to mean that only one's own planet that they are standing on is sure to exist.
;Judgemental: Only the prettiest ones are planets (6 planets)
:This list is likely formulated from Randall's own perception of the prettiest planets in the Solar System. There is a common misconception that {{w|Neptune}} has a deep, dark blue color while in reality it is similar to {{w|Uranus}}'s pale, greenish-blue color, making it look less pretty.
;Empiricist: Only worlds that I, author of this table, have personally seen are planets (12 planets)
:This list may refer to the celestial objects in the Solar System that have been made visible at night, probably using with an optical telescope (a hobbyist one, perhaps Randall's, or from time borrowed on a major institutional installation). Jupiter's {{w|Galilean moons|four largest moons}} are technically visible but hard to distinguish due to Jupiter's brightness, while Neptune is too faint to see with a naked eye. Apparently Randall has also seen Uranus. This is fairly rare, since it usually requires a telescope pointed in just the right direction. Technically [https://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/advice/skills/how-see-uranus-in-night-sky Uranus ''is'' visible to the naked eye] under the very best viewing conditions, but these conditions are rare and it again requires knowing exactly where to look.
;Marine biologist: Only objects with oceans are planets (6+ planets)
:This list includes Earth, {{w|Europa (moon)|Europa}}, {{w|Ganymede (moon)|Ganymede}}, {{w|Callisto (moon)|Callisto}} and {{w|Enceladus}}.
;Maritime: Only objects with ''surface'' oceans are planets (2 planets)
:As of the time of posting of this comic, only Earth has been proven to have a surface ocean. However, other objects in the Solar System could have a surface ocean, those being Enceladus and Europa; it is unclear which {{w|Moons of Saturn|Saturnian moon}} falls into this category as Europa (a Jovian moon) is excluded despite having cryogeysers similar to Enceladus.
;Universalist: They're all planets (infinite)
:This list claims that all objects are planets.
;Existantialist: What if {{w|outer space|space}} ''itself'' is a planet??? (Duude)
:This list is different from the list above as it claims that all of space, rather than only the objects existing in space, are planets. The interjection ''Duude'' expresses one's amazement at this 'revelation' and replaces the number count.
;Spiteful: ''Only'' Pluto is a planet (1 planet)
:This list is a malicious play on the demotion of Pluto by demoting all other planets except Pluto instead, leaving Pluto as the only planet in the Solar System.
;(title text) {{w|Star}}: Earth is a star (2 stars)
:In May 1934, Mark Oliphant, Paul Harteck and Ernest Rutherford at the Cavendish Laboratory, published an intentional deuterium fusion experiment, and made the discovery of both tritium and helium-3. This is widely considered the first experimental demonstration of fusion. Randall considers that this makes Earth fall into the category of a star due to the human-induced ability for Earth to fuse hydrogen into helium using nuclear fusion.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
:[A table with 3 columns, the headers labelled "Definition", "# of planets", and "Solar system" and 17 rows.]
:[In each row, the first column has a single word, in bold, and a descriptive sentence, the second column has a digit or other 'value', the third column is a drawing of the Solar system, featuring various bodies and a selection of moons: The Sun, Mercury, Venuse, Earth + The Moon, Mars + two moons (Phobos and Deimos), a small selection of Asteroid Belt bodies (Ceres and other smaller examples), Jupitor + four moons (likely Io, Europa, Ganymede, and Callisto), a ringed Saturn + usually one moon (probably Titan) or two (Enceladus?), Uranus + four or five moons (likely to be Miranda, Ariel, Umbriel, Titania, and Oberon, but one of these over the face of Uranus only in some versions of the image), Neptune + one moon (probably Triton), Pluto + one moon (Charon), four more plutoid/Kuiper Belt objeccts (probably Haumea, Makemake, Gonggong and Eris, in distance order), the first two of them with distinct moons indicated (entirely dependent upon which main objects they are).]
:[Each row's illustrated solar system has indivudal combinations of green highlights applied to the otherwise repeated diagram.]
:[Row 1: Definition:] Traditionalist: Pluto is a planet [Number:] 9 [Highlit: Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto]
:[Row 2: Definition:] Modern: Pluto is not a planet [Number:] 8 [Highlit: Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune]
:[Row 3: Definition:] Expansive: Dwarf planets are planets [Number:] 17+ [Highlit: Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Ceres (in Asteroid Belt), Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto and the further main bodies]
:[Row 4: Definition:] Ultratraditionalist: Only the classical planets are planets [Number:] 5 [Highlit: Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn]
:[Row 5: Definition:] Condescending: Only giant planets are planets; the rest are big asteroids. [Number:] 4 [Highlit: Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune]
:[Row 6: Definition:] Simplistic: Anything gravitationally round is a planet [Number:] 37+ [Highlit: The Sun, Mercury, Venus, Earth, The Moon, Mars, Ceres (without other asteroids), Jupiter + moons, Saturn and Titan, Uranus and its moons, Neptune and its moon, Pluto and the four further dwarf planets]
:[Row 7: Definition:] Grounded: Only objects a spaceship has landed on are planets [Number:] 10 [Highlit: Venus, Earth, The Moon, Mars, five (non-Ceriese) asteroids and Titan]
:[Row 8: Definition:] Regolithic: Anything covered in dirt and ice and stuff is a planet [Number:] [infinity symbol] [Highlit: Mercury, Venus, Earth, The Moon, Mars, Ceres and across all other asteroids from the Asteroid Belt, the moons of Jupiter, the moon(!) of Saturn, the moons of Uranus, the moon of Neptune, Pluto and Charon, all remaining dwarf planets and their moons]
:[Row 9: Definition:] Lunar: You can't be a planet if you don't have a moon [Number:] 12+ [Highlit: Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto and three(!) of the other dwarf planets in the Kuiper belt]
:[Row 10: Definition:] Solipsitic: Earth is the only planet [Number:] 1 [Highlit: The Earth]
:[Row 11: Definition:] Judgemental: Only the prettiest ones are planets [Number:] 6 [Highlit: The Earth, Jupiter and one of its moons (not identified), Saturn, one of ''two'' Saturnian moons in this image and Pluto]
:[Row 12: Definition:] Empiricist: Only worlds that I, author of this table, have personally seen are planets [Number:] 12 [Highlit: Mercury, Venus, The Earth, The Moon, Mars Jupiter and its four moons, Saturn and Uranus]
:[Row 13: Definition:] Marine biologist: Only objects with oceans are planets [Number:] 6+ [Highlit: The Earth, three Jovian moons, the two illustrated Saturnian moons]
:[Row 14: Definition:] Maritime: Only objects with [next word in italics] surface oceans are planets [Number:] 2 [Highlit: The Earth and Titan]
:[Row 15: Definition:] Universalist: They're all planets [Number:] [infinity symbol] [Highlit: All drawn objects, including The Sun and all moons]
:[Row 16: Definition:] Existantialist: What if space [next word in italics] itself is a planet??? [Word, in italics:] Duude [Highlit: The whole third column cell]
:[Row 17: Definition:] Spiteful: [next word in italics] Only Pluto is a planet [Number:] 1 [Highlit: Pluto]

==Trivia==
*The 'Judgemental' definition has 7 colored objects instead of the labelled 6.
*[https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/archive/6/66/20250314195557%21planet_definitions_2x.png The initially released version of the comic] had two errors that were later fixed:
**The 'Traditionalist' definition had Neptune's satellite {{w|Triton (moon)|Triton}} colored instead of Pluto.
**The 'Modern' definition had Pluto colored as a 9th planet. It appears that the images for 'Traditionalist' and 'Modern' were swapped.
{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics with color]]
[[Category:Charts]]
[[Category:Astronomy]]
[[Category:Space]]
[[Category:Philosophy]]

3063: Planet Definitions

2025-03-14T23:56:26Z

JimJJewett: /* Explanation */ Why The Sun has no Moons

{{comic
| number = 3063
| date = March 14, 2025
| title = Planet Definitions
| image = planet_definitions_2x.png
| imagesize = 653x1435px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = Under the 'has cleared its orbital neighborhood' and 'fuses hydrogen into helium' definitions, thanks to human activities Earth technically no longer qualifies as a planet but DOES count as a star.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|The explanation is too short.}}

This comic addresses the {{w|IAU definition of planet|controversy of whether of Pluto is a planet}} and gives many other humorous definitions, most of them fairly nonsensical, of what a planet could be.

;Traditionalist: {{w|Pluto}} is a planet (9 planets)
:In modern times, there was {{w|IAU definition of planet#Background|no formal definition of a "planet"}} prior to 2006. However, it was generally accepted as a colloquialism there were nine planets around the {{w|Sun}}, Pluto included. As more sophisticated methods of mapping the {{w|Solar System}} were developed and {{w|Eris (dwarf planet)|Eris}} was discovered to be even more massive than Pluto, it became clear to astronomers that a more standardized definition was needed. In 2006 the International Astronomical Union (IAU) published their formal redefinition of a "planet" to require a planet to be gravitationally dominant within its orbit, disqualifying Pluto (and Eris) which is now considered a "dwarf planet." This has been subject to push back from countless people, including [https://arxiv.org/abs/2110.15285 some planetary scientists], but in numbers mostly nostalgic laypeople dissatisfied with Pluto being "demoted" or otherwise relegated.
;Modern: Pluto is not a planet (8 planets)
:When the IAU redefined what a planet is in 2006, Pluto no longer qualifies as a planet. (since it wasn't able to clear its neighborhood around its orbit) Using the modern definition of a planet, only eight celestial objects qualified.
;Expansive: Dwarf planets are planets (17+ planets)
:It is likely that since the term "dwarf planet" contained "planet" in its name, Randall considered those as also planets under this category.
:It is also likely that the number of planets includes the ones that are considered planets and the ones that are considered to have compacted into fully solid bodies, {{w|Dwarf planet#Most likely dwarf planets| as defined by Grundy ''et al.'',}} those being {{w|Ceres (dwarf planet)|Ceres}}, Pluto, Eris, {{w|Makemake}}, {{w|Gonggong (dwarf planet)|Gonggong}}, {{w|Quaoar}}, {{w|Orcus (dwarf planet|Orcus}} and {{w|Sedna (dwarf planet)|Sedna}}.
;Ultratraditionalist: Only the classical planets are planets (5 planets)
:The {{w|classical planets}} are objects found and considered by the Greek astronomers in classical antiquity to be considered planets. Their definition of "planet" considered visible objects that move across the sky relative to the fixed stars. There are seven classical planets, but if one were to only consider the ones that fall under the IAU's definition of a planet (this being ''less'' traditional), then there would only be five. (The Sun and the {{w|Moon}} would be disqualified)
;Condescending: Only giant planets are planets; the rest are big {{w|asteroid}}s (4 planets)
:This definition may refer to the {{w|giant planets}}, planets much larger than the {{w|Earth}}. Only the four outer planets fall under this definition.
;Simplistic: Anything gravitationally round is a planet (37+ planets)
:Using the Wikipedia {{w|list of gravitationally rounded objects of the Solar System}}, there are 37 objects listed. That includes the Sun, 7 planets, 10 dwarf planets and 19 {{w|Natural satellite|moon}}s.
;Grounded: Only objects a spaceship has landed on are planets (10 planets)
:This list includes objects in the Solar System that a spacecraft has {{w|List of landings on extraterrestrial bodies| performed a soft landing on}}. The list includes {{w|Venus}}, Earth, {{w|Mars}}, the Moon, {{w|Titan (moon)|Titan}}, {{w|433 Eros|Eros}}, {{w|25143 Itokawa|Itokawa}}, {{w|162173 Ryugu|Ryugu}} and {{w|101955 Bennu|Bennu}}. Notably, {{w|comet}} landings are not included in the list.
;Regolithic: Anything covered in dirt and ice and stuff is a planet (infinite)
:This list excludes the {{w|Gas Giant}}s and the {{w|Ice Giant}}s. The list would likely include dwarf planets, asteroids, moons and comets.
;Lunar: You can't be a planet if you don't have a moon (12+ objects)
:Only some objects in the solar system have known and acknowledged moons orbiting them. The value given may be {{w|List of natural satellites| the number of planets and dwarf planets}} that have moons, when excluding {{w|Haumea}} for not reaching {{w|hydrostatic equilibrium}} despite having moons. The Sun is excluded because its satellites are not moons, because ... oh, look, a Squirrel!
;Solipsistic: Earth is the only planet (1 planet)
:{{w|Solipsism}} is the idea that only one's own mind is sure to exist. Randall extrapolated this idea to mean that only one's own planet that they are standing on is sure to exist.
;Judgemental: Only the prettiest ones are planets (6 planets)
:This list is likely formulated from Randall's own perception of the prettiest planets in the Solar System. There is a common misconception that {{w|Neptune}} has a deep, dark blue color while in reality it is similar to {{w|Uranus}}'s pale, greenish-blue color, making it look less pretty.
;Empiricist: Only worlds that I, author of this table, have personally seen are planets (12 planets)
:This list may refer to the celestial objects in the Solar System that have been made visible at night, probably using with an optical telescope (a hobbyist one, perhaps Randall's, or from time borrowed on a major institutional installation). Jupiter's {{w|Galilean moons|four largest moons}} are technically visible but hard to distinguish due to Jupiter's brightness, while Neptune is too faint to see with a naked eye. Apparently Randall has also seen Uranus. This is fairly rare, since it usually requires a telescope pointed in just the right direction. Technically [https://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/advice/skills/how-see-uranus-in-night-sky Uranus ''is'' visible to the naked eye] under the very best viewing conditions, but these conditions are rare and it again requires knowing exactly where to look.
;Marine biologist: Only objects with oceans are planets (6+ planets)
:This list includes Earth, {{w|Europa (moon)|Europa}}, {{w|Ganymede (moon)|Ganymede}}, {{w|Callisto (moon)|Callisto}} and {{w|Enceladus}}.
;Maritime: Only objects with ''surface'' oceans are planets (2 planets)
:As of the time of posting of this comic, only Earth has been proven to have a surface ocean. However, other objects in the Solar System could have a surface ocean, those being Enceladus and Europa; it is unclear which {{w|Moons of Saturn|Saturnian moon}} falls into this category as Europa (a Jovian moon) is excluded despite having cryogeysers similar to Enceladus.
;Universalist: They're all planets (infinite)
:This list claims that all objects are planets.
;Existantialist: What if {{w|outer space|space}} ''itself'' is a planet??? (Duude)
:This list is different from the list above as it claims that all of space, rather than only the objects existing in space, are planets. The interjection ''Duude'' expresses one's amazement at this 'revelation' and replaces the number count.
;Spiteful: ''Only'' Pluto is a planet (1 planet)
:This list is a malicious play on the demotion of Pluto by demoting all other planets except Pluto instead, leaving Pluto as the only planet in the Solar System.
;(title text) {{w|Star}}: Earth is a star (2 stars)
:In May 1934, Mark Oliphant, Paul Harteck and Ernest Rutherford at the Cavendish Laboratory, published an intentional deuterium fusion experiment, and made the discovery of both tritium and helium-3. This is widely considered the first experimental demonstration of fusion. Randall considers that this makes Earth fall into the category of a star due to the human-induced ability for Earth to fuse hydrogen into helium using nuclear fusion.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
:[A table with 3 columns, the headers labelled "Definition", "# of planets", and "Solar system" and 17 rows.]
:[In each row, the first column has a single word, in bold, and a descriptive sentence, the second column has a digit or other 'value', the third column is a drawing of the Solar system, featuring various bodies and a selection of moons: The Sun, Mercury, Venuse, Earth + The Moon, Mars + two moons (Phobos and Deimos), a small selection of Asteroid Belt bodies (Ceres and other smaller examples), Jupitor + four moons (likely Io, Europa, Ganymede, and Callisto), a ringed Saturn + usually one moon (probably Titan) or two (Enceladus?), Uranus + four or five moons (likely to be Miranda, Ariel, Umbriel, Titania, and Oberon, but one of these over the face of Uranus only in some versions of the image), Neptune + one moon (probably Triton), Pluto + one moon (Charon), four more plutoid/Kuiper Belt objeccts (probably Haumea, Makemake, Gonggong and Eris, in distance order), the first two of them with distinct moons indicated (entirely dependent upon which main objects they are).]
:[Each row's illustrated solar system has indivudal combinations of green highlights applied to the otherwise repeated diagram.]
:[Row 1: Definition:] Traditionalist: Pluto is a planet [Number:] 9 [Highlit: Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto]
:[Row 2: Definition:] Modern: Pluto is not a planet [Number:] 8 [Highlit: Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune]
:[Row 3: Definition:] Expansive: Dwarf planets are planets [Number:] 17+ [Highlit: Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Ceres (in Asteroid Belt), Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto and the further main bodies]
:[Row 4: Definition:] Ultratraditionalist: Only the classical planets are planets [Number:] 5 [Highlit: Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn]
:[Row 5: Definition:] Condescending: Only giant planets are planets; the rest are big asteroids. [Number:] 4 [Highlit: Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune]
:[Row 6: Definition:] Simplistic: Anything gravitationally round is a planet [Number:] 37+ [Highlit: The Sun, Mercury, Venus, Earth, The Moon, Mars, Ceres (without other asteroids), Jupiter + moons, Saturn and Titan, Uranus and its moons, Neptune and its moon, Pluto and the four further dwarf planets]
:[Row 7: Definition:] Grounded: Only objects a spaceship has landed on are planets [Number:] 10 [Highlit: Venus, Earth, The Moon, Mars, five (non-Ceriese) asteroids and Titan]
:[Row 8: Definition:] Regolithic: Anything covered in dirt and ice and stuff is a planet [Number:] [infinity symbol] [Highlit: Mercury, Venus, Earth, The Moon, Mars, Ceres and across all other asteroids from the Asteroid Belt, the moons of Jupiter, the moon(!) of Saturn, the moons of Uranus, the moon of Neptune, Pluto and Charon, all remaining dwarf planets and their moons]
:[Row 9: Definition:] Lunar: You can't be a planet if you don't have a moon [Number:] 12+ [Highlit: Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto and three(!) of the other dwarf planets in the Kuiper belt]
:[Row 10: Definition:] Solipsitic: Earth is the only planet [Number:] 1 [Highlit: The Earth]
:[Row 11: Definition:] Judgemental: Only the prettiest ones are planets [Number:] 6 [Highlit: The Earth, Jupiter and one of its moons (not identified), Saturn, one of ''two'' Saturnian moons in this image and Pluto]
:[Row 12: Definition:] Empiricist: Only worlds that I, author of this table, have personally seen are planets [Number:] 12 [Highlit: Mercury, Venus, The Earth, The Moon, Mars Jupiter and its four moons, Saturn and Uranus]
:[Row 13: Definition:] Marine biologist: Only objects with oceans are planets [Number:] 6+ [Highlit: The Earth, three Jovian moons, the two illustrated Saturnian moons]
:[Row 14: Definition:] Maritime: Only objects with [next word in italics] surface oceans are planets [Number:] 2 [Highlit: The Earth and Titan]
:[Row 15: Definition:] Universalist: They're all planets [Number:] [infinity symbol] [Highlit: All drawn objects, including The Sun and all moons]
:[Row 16: Definition:] Existantialist: What if space [next word in italics] itself is a planet??? [Word, in italics:] Duude [Highlit: The whole third column cell]
:[Row 17: Definition:] Spiteful: [next word in italics] Only Pluto is a planet [Number:] 1 [Highlit: Pluto]

==Trivia==
*The 'Judgemental' definition has 7 colored objects instead of the labelled 6.
*[https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/archive/6/66/20250314195557%21planet_definitions_2x.png The initially released version of the comic] had two errors that were later fixed:
**The 'Traditionalist' definition had Neptune's satellite {{w|Triton (moon)|Triton}} colored instead of Pluto.
**The 'Modern' definition had Pluto colored as a 9th planet. It appears that the images for 'Traditionalist' and 'Modern' were swapped.
{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics with color]]
[[Category:Charts]]
[[Category:Astronomy]]
[[Category:Space]]
[[Category:Philosophy]]

Talk:3063: Planet Definitions

2025-03-14T23:51:07Z

JimJJewett: Have we launched anything into the Sun yet?

The one currently posted has Pluto highlighted in the second box and not highlighted in the first box. Too hard to tell if it's trolling or a genuine mistake. :-D

:Apparently a mistake since it's fixed now. [[User:HughNo|HughNo]] ([[User talk:HughNo|talk]]) 19:59, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

And the first one also has a moon hilighted instead I think?? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.5|162.158.126.5]] 15:59, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

:Was about to write the same. The coloring in the first two lines arund Pluto seem wrong (or mistankingly switched). --[[Special:Contributions/172.71.222.246|172.71.222.246]] 16:17, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

This, this is the hill I will die on. I was radicalised by this paper: [https://arxiv.org/abs/2110.15285 Moons Are Planets: "Scientific Usefulness Versus Cultural Teleology in the Taxonomy of Planetary Science"]
In short; planets are what planetary scientists study. Round things with the *good stuff*: atmospheres, oceans, volcanoes (of lava or water ice) (see diagram page 53).
Pluto, Titan, Ceres, Io and Europa are all in the sweet spot where you're not so small you're just a lump of rocks who happen to be stuck together into a lump, and not so large you're just a mostly undifferentiated mass of fusing hydrogen/helium plasma.
And it's consistent with our pre-20th Century understanding of what a planet is, whereas the IAU definition is trying to preserve 19th Century astrology. An amazing read and a strong recommend for anyone who cares about this subject. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.79.138|172.69.79.138]] 16:45, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

Does this sort of count as pi-related for pi day? [[User:TomtheBuilder|TomtheBuilder]] ([[User talk:TomtheBuilder|talk]]) 17:04, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
:he doesn't do themed comics anymore 😔 [[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 17:12, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

I was somewhat disappointed to get to the end of the table without seeing either an astrology or Sailor Moon joke. -- [[User:Angel|Angel]] ([[User talk:Angel|talk]]) 18:12, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

Is it possible that Uranus is marked under "Empiricist" because of the "Randall has seen Uranus" joke? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.42.178|172.70.42.178]] 18:38, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

The "{{w|Classical planet|Classical Planets}}" should be 7, including the Sun and the Moon.
:The average distance of the orbit of the Moon around the Earth must be slightly farther away than the orbit of the Sun around the Earth, since the Moon lags behind the Sun a little more each day, but the orbits must cross or we would never have a solar eclipse :P [[User:SammyChips|SammyChips]] ([[User talk:SammyChips|talk]]) 19:41, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

Wouldn't the Regolithic one depend on the exact definitions of "dirt", "ice", and "covered"? It seems that an argument could be made that the giant planets also count there but have a much thicker atmosphere on the outside, and disqualifying because of the atmosphere could exclude others like Earth depending on the exact threshold used. [[User:SammyChips|SammyChips]] ([[User talk:SammyChips|talk]]) 19:08, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

Has Randall not seen the sun before?
:I'm impressed that he has seen Uranus (unless that actually is a joke), especially if he saw it unaided (apparently it actually can be barely seen with the naked eye if the conditions are incredibly good). [[User:SammyChips|SammyChips]] ([[User talk:SammyChips|talk]]) 19:36, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
:Could the sun be classified as a "world"? --[[User:MothWaves|MothWaves]] ([[User talk:MothWaves|talk]]) 19:43, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
:I assumed he meant "seen directly with my eyes", so that a photograph would not count, but looking through a telescope during an astronomy night at the local University would count. And he hasn't looked *closely* at the Sun, because of the need for eye protection. [[User:JimJJewett|JimJJewett]] ([[User talk:JimJJewett|talk]]) 23:49, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

Technically, spacecraft have landed on Mercury, Jupiter, and Saturn. Just not in a survivable manner. [[User:Redacted II|Redacted II]] ([[User talk:Redacted II|talk]]) 19:37, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
:Have we really not sent anything directly into the Sun yet? [[User:JimJJewett|JimJJewett]] ([[User talk:JimJJewett|talk]]) 23:51, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

It looks like the Pluto error in Traditionalist and Modernist images were fixed. I now see Pluto highlighted in traditionalist and Pluto unhighlighted in Modern. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.7.91|172.68.7.91]] 19:44, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

indeed, it seems fine now, i removed my earlier comment--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.233.116|162.158.233.116]] 23:06, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

//Jean-Luc Margot wrote a serious planet definition proposal// in 2024 as a starting point for community conversations and welcomes feedback. In 2019 I wrote a small article myself on planet and moon classes simply by size. //Mondklassen "wwwahnsinn"// (in German).
[[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.108|162.158.159.108]] 19:49, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

I'm disputing that there has never been a formal definition of "planet" prior to 2006 - the ancient Greek definition of "wandering [relative to seemingly-fixed stars] points of light in the night sky" seems formal enough to me. I marked it {{tl|actual citation needed}}. [[Special:Contributions/198.41.227.73|198.41.227.73]] 19:52, 14 March 2025‎
: I've reworded the sentence to say "in modern times" so we aren't making unfounded and likely-incorrect claims about antiquity. [[Special:Contributions/198.41.227.73|198.41.227.73]] 21:19, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

Does anyone else strongly dislike the term '''natural satellite''' replacing ''moon''? Under the new nomenclature, only Earth's moon is 'the Moon'. All other moons are now merely natural satellites. Phobos, Deimos, Ganymede, are no longer considered moons. My biggest problem with the new definition is that planets themselves are natural satellites of stars. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.182.225|172.71.182.225]] 20:13, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

It seems likely that the Saturnian moon highlighted in the Maritime definition is Titan, since it has liquid seas and lakes on its surface. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.6.5|172.69.6.5]] 21:54, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
:I've noted in the Transcript that (despite apparently being ''identical'' pre-highlight drawings in all other ways, or at least very consistently reproduced), Saturn is given one moon ''most'' of the time, but two moons on occasion. Similarly, Uranus's moons (spread from upper-right to lower-left) do-or-do-not include the dot (in one case suffering a highlighting) moving across the face of the planet. From an analytical perspective, I'm wondering if Randall did indeed copypaste the 'normal' iillustration, but then have to manually add in "whoops, I forgot I need to highlight a further item thaat I haven't already drawn" into some of the established copies, touching up where necessary (and maybe where still not necessary too). ...But I'm not sure it matters what he did or did not do. It's just an observation about the result. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.79.190|172.69.79.190]] 23:03, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

== Citations ==

I added a bunch of Wikipedia citations. I went by the WP rule (citation needed) of linking the first non-parenthesized instance of a word/phrase. That does make for some awkward things, like lists with only some of the items linked, and the {{w|natural satellite|moon}} link in a mention under '''Simplistic''' rather than on the more relevant '''Lunar'''.
–[[User:P1h3r1e3d13|P1h3r1e3d13]] ([[User talk:P1h3r1e3d13|talk]]) 22:34, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

'''Round vs Spheroidal'''
According to the "simplistic" definition, the rings themselves (also round) are separate planets. If the simplistic definition had merely been "spheroidal" rather than "round", they would not be. I'd love to see a version of the chart where Saturn is green, but the rings are white. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.99.166|172.71.99.166]] 23:36, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

Talk:3063: Planet Definitions

2025-03-14T23:49:24Z

JimJJewett: What has Randall seen?

The one currently posted has Pluto highlighted in the second box and not highlighted in the first box. Too hard to tell if it's trolling or a genuine mistake. :-D

:Apparently a mistake since it's fixed now. [[User:HughNo|HughNo]] ([[User talk:HughNo|talk]]) 19:59, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

And the first one also has a moon hilighted instead I think?? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.5|162.158.126.5]] 15:59, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

:Was about to write the same. The coloring in the first two lines arund Pluto seem wrong (or mistankingly switched). --[[Special:Contributions/172.71.222.246|172.71.222.246]] 16:17, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

This, this is the hill I will die on. I was radicalised by this paper: [https://arxiv.org/abs/2110.15285 Moons Are Planets: "Scientific Usefulness Versus Cultural Teleology in the Taxonomy of Planetary Science"]
In short; planets are what planetary scientists study. Round things with the *good stuff*: atmospheres, oceans, volcanoes (of lava or water ice) (see diagram page 53).
Pluto, Titan, Ceres, Io and Europa are all in the sweet spot where you're not so small you're just a lump of rocks who happen to be stuck together into a lump, and not so large you're just a mostly undifferentiated mass of fusing hydrogen/helium plasma.
And it's consistent with our pre-20th Century understanding of what a planet is, whereas the IAU definition is trying to preserve 19th Century astrology. An amazing read and a strong recommend for anyone who cares about this subject. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.79.138|172.69.79.138]] 16:45, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

Does this sort of count as pi-related for pi day? [[User:TomtheBuilder|TomtheBuilder]] ([[User talk:TomtheBuilder|talk]]) 17:04, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
:he doesn't do themed comics anymore 😔 [[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 17:12, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

I was somewhat disappointed to get to the end of the table without seeing either an astrology or Sailor Moon joke. -- [[User:Angel|Angel]] ([[User talk:Angel|talk]]) 18:12, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

Is it possible that Uranus is marked under "Empiricist" because of the "Randall has seen Uranus" joke? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.42.178|172.70.42.178]] 18:38, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

The "{{w|Classical planet|Classical Planets}}" should be 7, including the Sun and the Moon.
:The average distance of the orbit of the Moon around the Earth must be slightly farther away than the orbit of the Sun around the Earth, since the Moon lags behind the Sun a little more each day, but the orbits must cross or we would never have a solar eclipse :P [[User:SammyChips|SammyChips]] ([[User talk:SammyChips|talk]]) 19:41, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

Wouldn't the Regolithic one depend on the exact definitions of "dirt", "ice", and "covered"? It seems that an argument could be made that the giant planets also count there but have a much thicker atmosphere on the outside, and disqualifying because of the atmosphere could exclude others like Earth depending on the exact threshold used. [[User:SammyChips|SammyChips]] ([[User talk:SammyChips|talk]]) 19:08, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

Has Randall not seen the sun before?
:I'm impressed that he has seen Uranus (unless that actually is a joke), especially if he saw it unaided (apparently it actually can be barely seen with the naked eye if the conditions are incredibly good). [[User:SammyChips|SammyChips]] ([[User talk:SammyChips|talk]]) 19:36, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
:Could the sun be classified as a "world"? --[[User:MothWaves|MothWaves]] ([[User talk:MothWaves|talk]]) 19:43, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
:I assumed he meant "seen directly with my eyes", so that a photograph would not count, but looking through a telescope during an astronomy night at the local University would count. And he hasn't looked *closely* at the Sun, because of the need for eye protection. [[User:JimJJewett|JimJJewett]] ([[User talk:JimJJewett|talk]]) 23:49, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

Technically, spacecraft have landed on Mercury, Jupiter, and Saturn. Just not in a survivable manner. [[User:Redacted II|Redacted II]] ([[User talk:Redacted II|talk]]) 19:37, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

It looks like the Pluto error in Traditionalist and Modernist images were fixed. I now see Pluto highlighted in traditionalist and Pluto unhighlighted in Modern. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.7.91|172.68.7.91]] 19:44, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

indeed, it seems fine now, i removed my earlier comment--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.233.116|162.158.233.116]] 23:06, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

//Jean-Luc Margot wrote a serious planet definition proposal// in 2024 as a starting point for community conversations and welcomes feedback. In 2019 I wrote a small article myself on planet and moon classes simply by size. //Mondklassen "wwwahnsinn"// (in German).
[[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.108|162.158.159.108]] 19:49, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

I'm disputing that there has never been a formal definition of "planet" prior to 2006 - the ancient Greek definition of "wandering [relative to seemingly-fixed stars] points of light in the night sky" seems formal enough to me. I marked it {{tl|actual citation needed}}. [[Special:Contributions/198.41.227.73|198.41.227.73]] 19:52, 14 March 2025‎
: I've reworded the sentence to say "in modern times" so we aren't making unfounded and likely-incorrect claims about antiquity. [[Special:Contributions/198.41.227.73|198.41.227.73]] 21:19, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

Does anyone else strongly dislike the term '''natural satellite''' replacing ''moon''? Under the new nomenclature, only Earth's moon is 'the Moon'. All other moons are now merely natural satellites. Phobos, Deimos, Ganymede, are no longer considered moons. My biggest problem with the new definition is that planets themselves are natural satellites of stars. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.182.225|172.71.182.225]] 20:13, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

It seems likely that the Saturnian moon highlighted in the Maritime definition is Titan, since it has liquid seas and lakes on its surface. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.6.5|172.69.6.5]] 21:54, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
:I've noted in the Transcript that (despite apparently being ''identical'' pre-highlight drawings in all other ways, or at least very consistently reproduced), Saturn is given one moon ''most'' of the time, but two moons on occasion. Similarly, Uranus's moons (spread from upper-right to lower-left) do-or-do-not include the dot (in one case suffering a highlighting) moving across the face of the planet. From an analytical perspective, I'm wondering if Randall did indeed copypaste the 'normal' iillustration, but then have to manually add in "whoops, I forgot I need to highlight a further item thaat I haven't already drawn" into some of the established copies, touching up where necessary (and maybe where still not necessary too). ...But I'm not sure it matters what he did or did not do. It's just an observation about the result. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.79.190|172.69.79.190]] 23:03, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

== Citations ==

I added a bunch of Wikipedia citations. I went by the WP rule (citation needed) of linking the first non-parenthesized instance of a word/phrase. That does make for some awkward things, like lists with only some of the items linked, and the {{w|natural satellite|moon}} link in a mention under '''Simplistic''' rather than on the more relevant '''Lunar'''.
–[[User:P1h3r1e3d13|P1h3r1e3d13]] ([[User talk:P1h3r1e3d13|talk]]) 22:34, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

'''Round vs Spheroidal'''
According to the "simplistic" definition, the rings themselves (also round) are separate planets. If the simplistic definition had merely been "spheroidal" rather than "round", they would not be. I'd love to see a version of the chart where Saturn is green, but the rings are white. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.99.166|172.71.99.166]] 23:36, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

3058: Tall Structures

2025-03-09T19:49:41Z

JimJJewett: /* Explanation */ how much yarn

{{comic
| number = 3058
| date = March 3, 2025
| title = Tall Structures
| image = tall_structures_2x.png
| imagesize = 740x430px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = Briefly set a new record for tallest human-made structure by getting my knit sweater snagged on the skydiving plane door as I jumped and not noticing until I'd landed.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete}}

This is a comparison of various tall buildings and other structures, ranging from the largest {{w|pyramid of Giza}} to the {{w|Burj Khalifa}}, sorted by increasing height. It mimics common illustrations of successive tallest buildings/structures in the world through time, or the current 'top few' examples, but instead represents an idiosyncratic selection. The pyramid of Giza was the tallest structure in the ancient world, and the Burj Khalifa is broadly acknowledged as the tallest building in the world.

When comparing the {{w|List of tallest buildings and structures#History|tallest structures}} of various types, the question of definitions often becomes important. Some define the heights of buildings to their highest occupied floor, while others (including all permanent structures) may include merely-aesthetic spires or have arbitrary installations of antennae on top of the building (which may comprise a significant portion of the building's height). Potentially ''all'' of an uninhabited and sealed pyramid could be considered structure alone, with any of its internal voids left unusable, practically inaccessible and definitely beyond sight.

There's also the question of whether structures need to be self-supporting to be counted, since structures such as antennae may be extremely tall but only stay up with the help of {{w|guy-wires}}. In this comic, [[Randall]] seems to take the broadest possible definition, apparently defining a "structure" as any artificial construct with continuous extent from the ground to its height. The comic then demonstrates how ludicrous such a broad definition becomes, by portraying a "random {{w|aerostat}}", tethered to the ground by a long cable, which is by far the tallest structure on the chart, significantly exceeding the height of the Burj Khalifa.

An aerostat is a lighter-than-air aircraft that can be tethered to the ground. A {{w|kite balloon}} (or {{w|kytoon}}) is a variant of the aerostat where the balloon body includes a lifting-body or kite design for additional lift. It is more stable than a balloon in winds and tends to hold its position above the tether. This is the main joke of the comic, since as long as it is tethered to the ground and is higher than the Burj Khalifa, it could be considered the tallest man-made structure. Since aerostats (and similar tethered flying objects) are generally not counted as "structures", this points out that, without agreed-upon and restrictive definitions, the question of what's tallest quickly becomes meaningless. There is a {{w|Compliant tower|class of structures}}, typically seen in oil platforms, that are "medium supported" and that use buoyancy to stand 'tall' above their anchored deep-sea end in an otherwise freestanding manner; there are clear parallels to the concept of a tethered balloon, and {{w|Petronius (oil platform)|one such structure}} had indeed been touted by some as the "tallest free-standing structure" up until the Burj Khalifa physically surpassed it.

The comic doesn't accurately depict the world record for how high tethered aerostats can actually fly (4880 meters, achieved on 23 September 2014, close to 6 times the height of Burj Khalifa), which would either dwarf the other buildings or make the comic very tall, but since it is just some random aerostat flying at that time that is shown, this may be at a much lower height.

The title text takes this point even further, claiming that Randall once skydived out of an airplane wearing a knit sweater, which caught on the airplane door, and presumably unraveled as he descended. The implication being that the yarn unraveled without breaking during his entire descent. When he reached the ground, the long thread presumably extended from his body up to the plane (typically 2,400–4,300 m, or 8,000–14,000 feet, above the ground). For the tiny moment between when he hit the ground and when the thread snapped or came loose (since the plane would still be moving), this would "briefly" form a structure, under the broadest possible definition, and would therefore set a new record. This is obviously not realistically feasible. Even if a thread could remain intact and connected under such circumstances, most knit tops don't have nearly enough thread to reach that kind of height. Unless, of course, you chose to ignore the implicit requirement that one end be anchored to the Earth ... or jumped from a plausible but unusually low height, on a day without particularly formidable aerostat competition.<ref>https://www.interweave.com/article/knitting-feature/how-much-yarn-do-i-need/</ref>

===Table of structures in the comic===

{| class="wikitable sortable"
|-
! Name !! Height !! Tallest structure !! Explanation
|-
| {{w|Great Pyramid of Giza|The Great Pyramid}} (Giza) || 137 m (449.5 ft) || style="text-align:center" data-sort-value="-2570" | c. 2570 BCE–1311 CE || A famous pyramid built c. 2570 BC
|-
| {{w|The Shard}} (London) || 309.6 m (1,016 ft) || style="text-align:center" | – || A skyscraper with steeply angled sides, the tallest 'habitable freestanding structure' in the UK.
|-
| The {{w|Eiffel Tower}} (Paris) || 330 m (1,083 ft) || style="text-align:center" | 1889–1930 || A wrought-iron lattice tower named after its designer, Gustave Eiffel
|-
| The {{w|Empire State Building}} (New York) || 443.2 m (1,454 ft) || style="text-align:center" | 1931–1967 || An art-deco office tower often seen in media
|-
| The {{w|CN Tower}} (Toronto) || 553.3 m (1,815 ft) || style="text-align:center" | 1975–2007 || A communication and observation tower in Canada
|-
| {{w|The Clock Towers}} (Mecca) || 601 m (1,972 ft) || style="text-align:center" | – || A hotel complex featuring the largest clock in the world
|-
| {{w|KRDK-TV mast}} (North Dakota) || 630 m (2,060 ft) || style="text-align:center" | – || Current tallest structure in the United States ({{w|KVLY-TV mast
}} was previously taller)
|-
| {{w|Shanghai Tower}} (Shanghai) || 632 m (2,073 ft) || style="text-align:center" | – || Tallest skyscraper in China
|-
| {{w|Tokyo Skytree}} (Tokyo) || 634.0 m (2,080 ft) || style="text-align:center" | – || Tallest tower in the world
|-
| {{w|Merdeka 118}} (Kuala Lumpur) || 678.9 m (2,227 ft) || style="text-align:center" | – || A skyscraper with diamond-shaped facades
|-
| {{w|Burj Khalifa}} (Dubai) || 828 m (2,717 ft) || style="text-align:center" | 2007–present || Tallest structure in the world
|-
| Some random {{w|aerostat}} that happens to be operating today || ~1,280 m (4,200 ft) (Depicted) {{w|Tethered Aerostat Radar System#System|~4,600 m (15,000 ft)}} (Actual) || style="text-align:center" | Varies || The main joke in the comic
|}

==Transcript==

:[Labels below structures shown in a black silhouette, from left to right, shortest to tallest:]
:The Great Pyramid (Giza)
:The Shard (London)
:The Eiffel Tower (Paris)
:The Empire State Building (New York)
:The CN Tower (Toronto)
:The Clock Towers (Mecca)
:KRDK-TV Mast (North Dakota)
:Shanghai Tower
:Tokyo Skytree
:Merdeka 118 (Kuala Lumpur)
:Burj Khalifa (Dubai)
:Some random aerostat that happens to be operating today

:[Caption below the panel:]
:The Burj Khalifa is the world's tallest artificial structure, but only on days when no one is flying a high-altitude kite balloon aerostat.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Aviation]]

Talk:3045: AlphaMove

2025-02-04T06:56:44Z

JimJJewett: /* What does this mean? */ unusual median because of data, not function redefinition

Ask Tom Murphy VII to get on this [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.103|141.101.99.103]] 22:50, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

This has actually been done and tested against other strange algorithms:
https://youtu.be/DpXy041BIlA?t=729

I have attempted to run the proposed bot against itself — if I haven't made any errors, here are the resulting games:

Rounding down:
1. e4 e6 2. f3 f5 3. e5 g5 4. d4 d5 5. exd6 g4 6. d7+ Kf7 7. dxc8=N Ke8 8. fxg4 h6 9. gxf5 Kd7 10. g4 h5 11. fxe6+ Ke8 12. g5 Na6 13. h3 Nc5 14. h4 Ne7 15. Kd2 Ne4+ 16. Ke1 Nf5 17. g6 Nf6 18. g7 Ng3 19. gxf8=N Nge4 20. Ke2 Ng4 21. Kf3 Ngf2 22. Ke2 Nh3 23. Ke3 Nhf2 24. Nb6 Nh3 25. Na4 Nhf2 26. Nac3 Nxc3 27. Kxf2 Nxd1+ 28. Kf3 Qc8 29. c4 Ne3 30. Ke4 Nf5 31. Kd3 Ng3 32. e7 Nxh1 33. Kc2 Qb8 34. d5 Kxe7 35. d6+ Kf6 36. dxc7 Nf2 37. c8=R Ng4 38. Kd2 Nh2 39. Ke3 Ng4+ 40. Kd4 Nh2 41. Kd5 Nxf1 42. Nc3 Nh2 43. Nce2 Ng4 44. Nd4 Nh6 45. Nd7+ Kf7 46. Ndf3 Qd6+ 47. Ke4 Qd2 48. Nf8 Qd5+ 49. Ke3 Qd2+ 50. Ke4 Qd5+ 51. Ke3 Qd2+ 52. Ke4

Rounding up:
1. f3 f5 2. e4 f4 3. d4 e6 4. e5 g6 5. g3 fxg3 6. c3 g2 7. d5 gxf1=Q+ 8. Kxf1 exd5 9. Ke2 d6 10. Kd3 g5 11. Kd2 dxe5 12. Ke2 d4 13. Kd3 dxc3+ 14. Ke3 e4 15. Ne2 exf3 16. Ng1 f2 17. Nxc3 fxg1=N 18. Qc2 Kd7 19. Ne2 h6 20. Qa4+ Ke6 21. Qb3+ Ke7 22. Qb4+ Ke8 23. Qb5+ Kf7 24. Qa6 Kg7 25. Qa4 Kg6 26. Qb3 Kg7 27. Qb4 Kh7 28. Qb5 Kg7 29. Qa6 Nc6 30. Nxg1 Na5 31. Qb6 Kh7 32. Qb3 Kg6 33. Qb4 Kg7 34. Qb6 Kh7 35. Qb3 Kg6 36. Qb4 Kg7 37. Qb6

Rounding down code:
const { Chess } = require("chess.js");

const chess = new Chess();
while (!chess.isGameOver()) {
const moves = chess.moves();
moves.sort((a, b) => b.localeCompare(a));
const move = moves[Math.floor(moves.length / 2)];
chess.move(move);
}
console.log(chess.pgn());

To round up, swap the a and b in the sort function.

Both games end in a threefold repetition draw. The game with rounding down does, in fact, have 6 knights in it, so I believe he did code this to see what would happen.

[[User:Ohpointfive|Ohpointfive]] ([[User talk:Ohpointfive|talk]]) 22:52, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

To elaborate on the Tom VII point - this is the YouTube video that possibly inspired the comic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpXy041BIlA

[[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.179|141.101.98.179]] 22:55, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
:Specifically, it's the [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpXy041BIlA&t=1483 Arithmetic Player at 24:43] set to ½. [[User:ChaoticNeutralCzech|ChaoticNeutralCzech]] ([[User talk:ChaoticNeutralCzech|talk]]) 17:52, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

Unfortunately for white, it's mate in 1 with Bb4# [[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.124|162.158.90.124]] 23:25, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

Even if white makes a different move, its still forced mate in one. RIP XKCD Bot. [[User:Redacted II|Redacted II]] ([[User talk:Redacted II|talk]]) 00:53, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
:Well, for most options. Queen to a4 puts Black in check, forestalling an immediate move to mate White; capturing the knight de-threatens enough squares around the king that Black can't check next turn without leaving an escape route. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.176.28|172.70.176.28]] 17:45, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

<s>Although it wouldn't change the outcome much (either by changing black's move or white's general options), I'm currently not understanding why Kd4 isn't on the list of options at this point in time. So long since I played serious(ish) chess, and the only reason I could think of is that it's probibited by some strict ortbodox game rule recognising the ''potential'' moving of the knight out of the way (in the next white move-cycle). But I'd have treated that later option as forbidden, as a revealing-mate. But, as I said, it's been a while, so maybe I'm just blind to something like a sweeping bishop-range that disbars this (much as the near knight, bishop and pawn disbars four out of the five moves).</s> ...darn, it's just clicked. That's the AlphaMoved white-knight's destination (before that, the black queen was entirely covering that square, and double-teaming one of the adjacent black-knight covered squares), I'd been thinking that was the piece's origin (with the empty highlighted square as its destination) until I'd finally read the highlighted movelist item properly and deciphered it as Knight To King Two (done), not the (intention of) Knight To King's Bishop One. So ignore the above. Although, just to note, for the Black Queen to have even achieved that position would probably have required at least ''one'' normally-sacrificial exposure to the deadly white Q/B/R pieces guarding the obvious entry, give or take the algorithmic development of their (and the "gateway pawns"') current positions. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.104|141.101.99.104]] 02:00, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
:Follow-up... As far as the black queen is concerned, I suppose she could have done d6, (x?)g3 then f2, in-between the other black and white moves made, largely safe from the white 'defence'. Or to d4 then f2, if white Queen's Pawn was shielding still. (Appears to have been taken, but it would have been bold to have done that with the queen, for a normally immediate pawn-queen exhange!) A bolder/more opportunistic set of moves than I would have tried, either. Even (unknowingly) against AlphaMove, I'd have been wary of the unconventionally developing white disposition actually being an idiot-trap (and I'm really not that far off being an idiot, insofar as chess). [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.162|172.70.162.162]] 02:17, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

The explanation gives both O-O and 0-0 as notations for castling and then explains why 0-0 can never occur, even though O-O can be sorted pretty centrally. So, which is the correct notation? [[Special:Contributions/172.71.250.91|172.71.250.91]] 09:14, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
:According to the [https://ia802908.us.archive.org/26/items/pgn-standard-1994-03-12/PGN_standard_1994-03-12.txt pgn spec], section 8.2.3.3: they are capital Os and not zeros [[Special:Contributions/172.68.3.96|172.68.3.96]] 15:10, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure we're looking at a retrograde puzzle. [[User:Ohpointfive|Ohpointfive]] is onto something here, with the six knights on the board a strong indicator. The question is, of course, where is the joke? White plays Alphamove all along and must have started with e4 (rounding down) or f3 (rounding up). Both are consistent with the end position. So from my point of view, the joke is
* either that the "stronger engine" is not a strong engine at all but maybe the same algorithm, rounding up instead of down
* or that black doesn't win this position (in real chess, White is of course toast) because its algorithm is even worse
@Ohpointfive, could you run the two versions against each other? --[[User:Pganon|Pganon]] ([[User talk:Pganon|talk]]) 15:55, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

I created a playable version of this game in like 10 minutes using ChatGPT ;)

https://enn-nafnlaus.github.io/AlphaMove/alphamove.html

Git page here:

https://github.com/enn-nafnlaus/AlphaMove

-- [[User:Rei|Rei]] 17:52, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

I checked, castling and en passant both work. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.245.25|172.68.245.25]] 19:26, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

@Pganon certainly:
White rounding down vs. black rounding up:
1. e4 f5 2. f3 f4 3. d4 e6 4. e5 g6 5. d5 exd5 6. g3 fxg3 7. c4 g2 8. h3 gxf1=Q+ 9. Kd2 Kf7 10. Kc3 Ke8 11. Kc2 Kf7 12. Kb3 Ke8 13. Kc2 Kf7 14. Kb3 Ke8 15. Kc2
White rounding up vs. black rounding down:
1. f3 e6 2. e4 f5 3. e5 g5 4. d4 d5 5. f4 gxf4 6. h3 h5 7. h4 Kd7 8. Kd2 Kc6 9. Kd3 Kb6 10. Ke2 Kb5 11. Ke1+ Kb4 12. Ke2 Kb5 13. Ke1+ Kb4 14. Ke2 Kb5

The first game is quite exciting, with black at one point having a chance at checkmate in one, but alas too many available pawn moves drives the winning move Qxc4# far past the center of the list. The second game is much less exciting.

[[User:Ohpointfive|Ohpointfive]] ([[User talk:Ohpointfive|talk]]) 21:30, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

Here's a question: What is the quickest way to checkmate AlphaMove? Here's the quickest that I have found so far:
# f3 d5
# e4 d5xe4
# f4 e5
# g3 Bg4
# d4 Qxd4
# f5 e3
# f6 Qxd1#
Thus, we have mate in seven. This might be good to mention outside the comments section as a demonstration tha AlphaGo is not very good (not to mention failing to attack black's queen with a less valuable piece), but a quicker checkmate might be possible, in which case we should mention that instead.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.207.159|172.70.207.159]] 11:08, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

: Checkmating Alphamove is easy. Getting checkmated *by* Alphamove is challenging. You basically have to forget everything you know about normal chess. -- [[User:Rei|Rei]] ([[User talk:Rei|talk]]) 14:48, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

:: Fastest mate against Alphamove playing Black 3 moves (natural max), White 5 moves (exhaustive search), selfmate 9 moves - problem composers and mathematicians solve that in a jiffy. See here: https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/46651/fastest-win-against-xkcds-alphamove [[Special:Contributions/172.70.248.29|172.70.248.29]] 09:11, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

One possible move, Kd2, is missing! /[[Special:Contributions/141.101.76.164|141.101.76.164]] 17:41, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
:That can't be done. The Knight isn't between d2 and the Q@f2 at the point that the moves are being compiled. The Ne2 hasn't happened yet (we now see it, as having moved there, ''as a result'' of Ne2 being selected from the list, so ''next'' turn the King could move there, assuming the game isn't lost (or black decides to do something ''else'' which prevents it, for some strange reason). [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.25|162.158.74.25]] 18:47, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

I [https://lichess.org/analysis/r1b1k2r/1pp1nppp/8/p1b1p3/2PnpP1P/2K5/PP3q2/RNBQ1BNR_w_kq_-_0_1?color=white put the position before White's move into Lichess] and it says it's mate in 12 for Black.

On a related note, I'm also wondering how they got to the comic position in the first place. Anyone want to try constructing a proof game? [[User:Arcorann|Arcorann]] ([[User talk:Arcorann|talk]]) 03:30, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

A lot of the explanation is based on a round-up version of AlphaMove. It should round down for even lists like the title text says. The [https://enn-nafnlaus.github.io/AlphaMove/alphamove.html example implementation] is wrong too. The first move should be e4, not f3. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.187.55|162.158.187.55]] 07:25, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

If there ever was an explanation that needed to be broken up into three paragraphs and a Detail section, this is it. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.142.30|172.71.142.30]] 17:19, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

It is not mentioned what happens when there is a tie for the middle move (for an even number of possible moves). Is it then chosen "at random"? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.155.102|162.158.155.102]] 19:38, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
:The title text discusses it, so presumably that's the principle we should consider at play. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.6.110|162.158.6.110]] 21:23, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

Why is there still a pawn on a2? It would seem that a3 would be the first move, followed by a4. {{unsigned ip|172.69.135.191|23:20, 3 February 2025 (UTC)}}

=== What does this mean? ===
The current explanation includes a paragraph starting with "The actual middle of the list might vary away from the usual alphabetic median if the moves (and the pieces removed by the opponent) are heavily biased to a particular subset of player-pieces." I can't make head or tail of this, but maybe that's just 'cause I'm dumb. Why would the middle of the list be different from the median? It should be re-worded to be clearer, or perhaps removed. [[User:DKMell|DKMell]] ([[User talk:DKMell|talk]]) 22:43, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

As an example, when the King is in check, there are far fewer legal moves, but they might include (or be limited to) interposing with a bishop, so that a bishop actually does get moved. That differs from the _usual_ median, even though the median function is still being used.
[[User:JimJJewett|JimJJewett]] ([[User talk:JimJJewett|talk]]) 06:56, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

Talk:2003: Presidential Succession

2024-12-05T08:37:31Z

JimJJewett: Cruz/McCain natural-born

Aw, but what about Morgan Freeman? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.11|108.162.221.11]] 04:43, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
:And Kiefer -designated survivor- Sutherland?[[Special:Contributions/141.101.104.83|141.101.104.83]] 08:24, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
:Morgan Freeman> "I do solemnly swear / that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States..." [[User:Linker|Linker]] ([[User talk:Linker|talk]]) 12:39, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Academy awards have been won by actors playing kings / queens - of England, the United Kingdom and Siam - Princes - of Denmark - and Prime Ministers of Great Britain and even the President of the Uniter States / Member of the house of Representatives, but I do not believe it has been won by an actor playing a state govenor. Mind you it is not clear if an actor playing a prison govenor, would count. [[User:Arachrah|Arachrah]] ([[User talk:Arachrah|talk]]) 11:30, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
: Broderick Crawford, actually. I've added him. To the best of my ability to determine, the opposite group (Governors Award recipients who have played characters named Oscar) appears to be an empty set. I'll note that I don't have a really comprehensive filmography for {{w|Jean-Claude Carrière}}, but I consider it fairly unlikely that he ever played a character by that name. [[User:Squeamish Ossifrage|Squeamish Ossifrage]] ([[User talk:Squeamish Ossifrage|talk]]) 16:08, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Bill Pullman's eldest daughter Maesa is a film composer with an IMDB page in her own right. [[User:Arachrah|Arachrah]] ([[User talk:Arachrah|talk]]) 11:30, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
:With Maesa having already been added (turned 35 last year), addded second child (not sure of exact DOB, but he was born the right year to be now 35) and added the third (commented, so hidden) ready for his own eventual 2028 inclusion. Have not checked for possible residency disqualifications/delays. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.30|141.101.99.30]] 17:44, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

Top 5 US astronauts? I only count three. Who are the other two? [[Special:Contributions/172.68.150.76|172.68.150.76]] 12:15, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

As of September 3, 2017, the 5 US astronauts with the most total time in space are Peggy Whitson (665 days), Jeff Williams (534), Scott Kelly (520), Mike Fincke (382), and Mike Foale (374), according to https://www.nasa.gov/feature/nasa-station-astronaut-record-holders. Michael Lopez-Alegria has the second-most time in space for a single spaceflight (215 days, compared to Scott Kelly, 340). [[User:The Dining Logician|The Dining Logician]] ([[User talk:The Dining Logician|talk]]) 12:59, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Mike Foale was born in Louth - so ineligible. Michael Lopez-Alegria was born in Spain ditto [[User:Arachrah|Arachrah]] ([[User talk:Arachrah|talk]]) 15:26, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
:Foale was born to an American mother and should hence be a natural-born American. --[[User:Ycthiognass|Ycthiognass]] ([[User talk:Ycthiognass|talk]]) 09:40, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
::There is actually legal question about whether someone born on foreign soil to US citizens count as "natural-born" (or whether courts would just say it's a political question and pass the buck to Congress), though I will add Foale back to the list. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.207|162.158.62.207]] 14:04, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

The non-US-citizen-being-in-line-for-the-Presidency thing has already been cleared up IRL - several Presidential cabinets have had non-natural-born-US citizens on them (current Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao was born in Taiwan; in the past Madeline Albright was born in the then-Czechoslovakia). All the serious succession lists I've ever seen just list them and skip over them. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.51|162.158.62.51]] 13:19, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

How do we decide who gets a bye in the jousting tournament? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.147|162.158.74.147]] 13:30, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
:Random draw, probably. There's no jousting rankings AFAIK to enable any kind of seeding like in tennis. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.51|162.158.62.51]] 15:16, 6 June 2018 (UTC) There is a USA chapter of the International Jousting Association. I didn't spend enough time to track down a rankings list, but there are 3 levels of competition, which would be a start in seeding. To further seed I'd suggest using the Europa Tiebreaker.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.15|162.158.62.15]] 18:14, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Anyone with a jousting ranking would not need a bye. [[User:Arachrah|Arachrah]] ([[User talk:Arachrah|talk]]) 15:26, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Anyone else think it's interesting that Kate gets a "if available" but Tom Hanks doesn't? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.62.184|172.69.62.184]] 16:23, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
: Also, why doesn't Tom Hanks kids get to be in line, like Bill Pulman's? Colin Hanks is old enough. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.122.210|162.158.122.210]] 03:59, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

I assume, but am too lazy to do all the maths, that the person born closest to Europa would be the one closest in time to the point Sun Earth and Jupiter are in line.
I found a table of opposition distances here: http://www.ianridpath.com/jupiter.htm
[[User:Arachrah|Arachrah]] ([[User talk:Arachrah|talk]]) 18:26, 6 June 2018 (UTC)That would seem to be the overwhelmingly dominant factor, the only other factors would be which side of the Earth someone is born on (up to 7915miles difference, or about 7 minutes of the Earth's orbit), and Elevation/Altitude,since as of yet no one has been born in space(citation required), this factor is trivial, equivalent to less than 1 second of Earth's orbit.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.15|162.158.62.15]] 18:14, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

All of this talk about ''where'' people were born is very misleading. The general opinion is that you have to have been a citizen from birth, not born in the U.S. (or a U.S. territory or whatever). Ted Cruz was born in Canada, but he would have been eligible had he won the nomination and the election. See http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/mar/26/ted-cruz-born-canada-eligible-run-president-update/ for discussion. —[[User:TobyBartels|TobyBartels]] ([[User talk:TobyBartels|talk]]) 20:56, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
*Even that page doesn't say Cruz is eligible; it says that the question hasn't been settled by the Courts, but that they would *probably* try to avoid deciding. (Normally, they throw the suits out for lack of standing.) McCain had a much stronger claim (his Father was also a US citizen, and he was born on a US military base, which for some purposes is treated as US territory), but the actual resolution clearing it up was ... a special law getting passed that applied only to him. [[User:JimJJewett|JimJJewett]] ([[User talk:JimJJewett|talk]]) 08:37, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
*Yes, Kate Brown (governor of Oregon) should be restored to Randall's line of succession, because she was born in Spain while her father was serving in the U.S. Air Force. Presumably she's a U.S. citizen by birth and thus eligible for the presidency. --[[Special:Contributions/172.68.150.52|172.68.150.52]] 22:44, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
** Added her. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foreign-born_United_States_politicians#Governors This page says she's a natural-born citizen]. --[[User:Ycthiognass|Ycthiognass]] ([[User talk:Ycthiognass|talk]]) 08:49, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

I read #7 being that we would have 5 people as co-president. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.122.210|162.158.122.210]] 03:59, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
:Would that also hold for other entries where multiple people are listed (e.g., multiple league MVPs meet the criteria)? Also, there is the "ties broken by born closest to Europa" title text. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.207|162.158.62.207]] 13:31, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

For the 'List of Specific Individuals', should it be maintained by who currently holds those positions, or left as who held them when the comic was posted? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.70.71|172.69.70.71]] 12:14, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
:If you want to come back and update the line as things change in the weeks, months, and years ahead, you're welcome to do so. If you do, I would recommend that both lists (the one accurate as of comic publishing and the one "updated") be maintained, perhaps as one table for fun comparison (adding blank spots as necessary if a current spot falls out of eligibility or a new one becomes eligible for whatever reason. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.207|162.158.62.207]] 13:29, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Tom Hanks is probably a reference to the June 4 Last Week Tonight episode, see http://time.com/5298479/john-oliver-last-week-tonight-guardianship/ {{unsigned ip|162.158.123.85}}

Oh! Question regarding Serena Williams - does it count if her latest match was in a ''doubles'' tournament? She pretty much always teams up with sister Venus in doubles. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.207|162.158.62.207]] 14:52, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Anyone else curious about the apostrophe in "Governor's award"? The current notes imply that it is simply a mistake in "Governors Awards" (the Academy Awards similar to the Oscars), but Governor's awards (i.e., an award by a state Governor) for other areas are quite common (e.g. Clemson University Governor's Award for Excellence in Science and Pennsylvania's Governor's Award for the Arts). Rearranging Oscar and governor from the preceding criterion certainly makes sense, but wild speculation is always more fun... {{unsigned ip|172.68.211.28}}

1933: Santa Facts mentioned Santa being 9th in the presidential line of succession. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.111.7|162.158.111.7]] 08:56, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

To me, #17 (Pullman '''and''' his descendants) seems to imply that we'd abolish the 4-year term and be presided by the Pullman clan for as long as there are eligible successors. #18 might imply that too. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.21|162.158.74.21]] 20:14, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
:Presidential elections are mandated in the Constitution every four years - Bill or any of his descendants, or any qualifying member of the UK royal line of succession, would only serve until the current term ends. (Whether a crisis that knocked so many people ahead of them out of the line would allow a reputable and accepted election is another story.) [[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.139|173.245.52.139]] 15:37, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

I note that if Donald Trump wasn't already holding the office of President, he could only qualify from positions 7 and 20 on Randall's list. And not at all from the actual list. [[User:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For|These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For]] ([[User talk:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For|talk]]) 01:09, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
:He wouldn't have been the only one - Obama's and JFK's previous job title before becoming President was US Senator, and Eisenhower was President of Columbia University. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.139|173.245.52.139]] 15:37, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

There are two problems with this explanation:
The line of succession applies only when the office of president becomes vacant. If the president is incapacitated, the vice president acts as president. If that office is vacant, or the vice precident is also incapacitated, the US will have to do without a president.

The constitution places no restrictions on who can act as president. The current law of succession stipulates that only those elegible to become president can act as president, the constitution does not.
--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.134.154|162.158.134.154]] 08:30, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
:Point 1, the office of President may be vacant but the powers of the Acting President execute the same by whomever the line falls to, and in times of crisis people will nearly certainly just consider them the new President (conflicting claims aside). Point 2 is just false - Article 2 of the Constitution stipulates natural-born citizen at 35 years old and having lived in the US for the last 14 years. Unless you're arguing that "President" and "Acting President" aren't the same? That sure as hell didn't stop John Tyler from refusing to acknowledge anyone who didn't acknowledge him as the new President after William Henry Harrison died a month into his term. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.139|173.245.52.139]] 15:17, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
::Point2: That is exactly what I am saying. Only the vice president can succeed to the presidency. The others would execute the powers of the president. What would most likely happen is that the acting president would appoint a vice president, who would succeed immediately when approved by congress.--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.134.34|162.158.134.34]] 07:50, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
::Point 1: There would be no acting president. Only the vice president can become acting president when the president is incapacitated. This and the office of president being vacant are covered in entirely separate parts of the constitution. The line of succession applies only in the latter case.
::Point 2: That was established in congressional legislation. Only the Vice President can become President when the President is incapcaitated, the rest act using the powers of the president but are not themselves the president.

;The Queen
Shouldn't the Queen come before Charles of Windsor? She is 0th in the British succession line. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.27.246|172.68.27.246]] 20:48, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
::It would violate Royal Oath. [[User:Erkinalp|Erkinalp]] ([[User talk:Erkinalp|talk]]) 13:53, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Since jousting can be a lethal sport (especially if you don't know what you're doing, or like, not wearing armor), I'm left to wonder if part of the whole single-elimination aspect of the competition, where EVERY American is participating, is basically a strategy to literally eliminate everyone there is to be subject to the government's rule (literally eliminate every citizen so the last one left alive is left to be in charge sort of thing) - [[User:Brettpeirce|Brettpeirce]] ([[User talk:Brettpeirce|talk]]) 18:10, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

[[Special:Contributions/172.69.135.184|172.69.135.184]] 07:43, 27 February 2019 (UTC) Foresee a problem with the Billboard Year End chart-toppers: What if a band has anonymous or pseudonymous members and/or deliberately avoids letting one of them assume leadership?
What about the MVPs, should the awards not be given prior to the line of succession reaching them?

;Updates to List of Individuals

Note that this list is supposed to be '''as of the date of the comic''' and should not be updated with changes due to events after that date. [[User:Ianrbibtitlht|Ianrbibtitlht]] ([[User talk:Ianrbibtitlht|talk]]) 17:31, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

I challenge the idea that a version of a legend can be "incorrect". [[User:Nitpicking|Nitpicking]] ([[User talk:Nitpicking|talk]]) 15:22, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
:It's downright factually wrong enough. As a Briton (perhaps, if not a colonial Roman left-over of some kind, the exact details obscured by time and creative reimagining/conflation from the mists of time being several centuries thick by the time he was extensively "chronicled") he was likely a key figure ''opposing'' the arriving Anglo-Saxons of his time, so to be king of the later-constituted "England"/land-of-the-Angles (which was not even a practical neologism, during his supposed reign, across his supposed realm) is an inconsistency that can't even be logically explained by mystical happenings like however such a warrior gets to wield a wet woman's weapon. The celtic fringes (leastwise the P-Celtic bits, on this main island of ours) have far more claim to him than those who eventually spread out from Norfolk/Suffolk/etc and nudged/subsumed them into their current pockets, never mind the post-Hastings mix of transplanted vikings who took over that ruling mantle and went on to shape and solidify the current form of the home-nations. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.35|172.70.90.35]] 19:21, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

The "natural born citizen" might exclude additional members of the British line of succession. Being born in the US doesn't count if your parents were here on a diplomatic passport, and some of them might well have such a passport. Though I'm sure there are (or would be invented) additional subtleties about which passport applied, just as there are to allow the (then-heir to the (Dutch?)) monarch to fly an airplane without it being a state visit. [[User:JimJJewett|JimJJewett]] ([[User talk:JimJJewett|talk]]) 08:23, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Talk:2003: Presidential Succession

2024-12-05T08:23:25Z

JimJJewett: natural-born vs diplomats

Aw, but what about Morgan Freeman? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.11|108.162.221.11]] 04:43, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
:And Kiefer -designated survivor- Sutherland?[[Special:Contributions/141.101.104.83|141.101.104.83]] 08:24, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
:Morgan Freeman> "I do solemnly swear / that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States..." [[User:Linker|Linker]] ([[User talk:Linker|talk]]) 12:39, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Academy awards have been won by actors playing kings / queens - of England, the United Kingdom and Siam - Princes - of Denmark - and Prime Ministers of Great Britain and even the President of the Uniter States / Member of the house of Representatives, but I do not believe it has been won by an actor playing a state govenor. Mind you it is not clear if an actor playing a prison govenor, would count. [[User:Arachrah|Arachrah]] ([[User talk:Arachrah|talk]]) 11:30, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
: Broderick Crawford, actually. I've added him. To the best of my ability to determine, the opposite group (Governors Award recipients who have played characters named Oscar) appears to be an empty set. I'll note that I don't have a really comprehensive filmography for {{w|Jean-Claude Carrière}}, but I consider it fairly unlikely that he ever played a character by that name. [[User:Squeamish Ossifrage|Squeamish Ossifrage]] ([[User talk:Squeamish Ossifrage|talk]]) 16:08, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Bill Pullman's eldest daughter Maesa is a film composer with an IMDB page in her own right. [[User:Arachrah|Arachrah]] ([[User talk:Arachrah|talk]]) 11:30, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
:With Maesa having already been added (turned 35 last year), addded second child (not sure of exact DOB, but he was born the right year to be now 35) and added the third (commented, so hidden) ready for his own eventual 2028 inclusion. Have not checked for possible residency disqualifications/delays. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.30|141.101.99.30]] 17:44, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

Top 5 US astronauts? I only count three. Who are the other two? [[Special:Contributions/172.68.150.76|172.68.150.76]] 12:15, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

As of September 3, 2017, the 5 US astronauts with the most total time in space are Peggy Whitson (665 days), Jeff Williams (534), Scott Kelly (520), Mike Fincke (382), and Mike Foale (374), according to https://www.nasa.gov/feature/nasa-station-astronaut-record-holders. Michael Lopez-Alegria has the second-most time in space for a single spaceflight (215 days, compared to Scott Kelly, 340). [[User:The Dining Logician|The Dining Logician]] ([[User talk:The Dining Logician|talk]]) 12:59, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Mike Foale was born in Louth - so ineligible. Michael Lopez-Alegria was born in Spain ditto [[User:Arachrah|Arachrah]] ([[User talk:Arachrah|talk]]) 15:26, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
:Foale was born to an American mother and should hence be a natural-born American. --[[User:Ycthiognass|Ycthiognass]] ([[User talk:Ycthiognass|talk]]) 09:40, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
::There is actually legal question about whether someone born on foreign soil to US citizens count as "natural-born" (or whether courts would just say it's a political question and pass the buck to Congress), though I will add Foale back to the list. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.207|162.158.62.207]] 14:04, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

The non-US-citizen-being-in-line-for-the-Presidency thing has already been cleared up IRL - several Presidential cabinets have had non-natural-born-US citizens on them (current Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao was born in Taiwan; in the past Madeline Albright was born in the then-Czechoslovakia). All the serious succession lists I've ever seen just list them and skip over them. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.51|162.158.62.51]] 13:19, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

How do we decide who gets a bye in the jousting tournament? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.147|162.158.74.147]] 13:30, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
:Random draw, probably. There's no jousting rankings AFAIK to enable any kind of seeding like in tennis. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.51|162.158.62.51]] 15:16, 6 June 2018 (UTC) There is a USA chapter of the International Jousting Association. I didn't spend enough time to track down a rankings list, but there are 3 levels of competition, which would be a start in seeding. To further seed I'd suggest using the Europa Tiebreaker.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.15|162.158.62.15]] 18:14, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Anyone with a jousting ranking would not need a bye. [[User:Arachrah|Arachrah]] ([[User talk:Arachrah|talk]]) 15:26, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Anyone else think it's interesting that Kate gets a "if available" but Tom Hanks doesn't? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.62.184|172.69.62.184]] 16:23, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
: Also, why doesn't Tom Hanks kids get to be in line, like Bill Pulman's? Colin Hanks is old enough. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.122.210|162.158.122.210]] 03:59, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

I assume, but am too lazy to do all the maths, that the person born closest to Europa would be the one closest in time to the point Sun Earth and Jupiter are in line.
I found a table of opposition distances here: http://www.ianridpath.com/jupiter.htm
[[User:Arachrah|Arachrah]] ([[User talk:Arachrah|talk]]) 18:26, 6 June 2018 (UTC)That would seem to be the overwhelmingly dominant factor, the only other factors would be which side of the Earth someone is born on (up to 7915miles difference, or about 7 minutes of the Earth's orbit), and Elevation/Altitude,since as of yet no one has been born in space(citation required), this factor is trivial, equivalent to less than 1 second of Earth's orbit.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.15|162.158.62.15]] 18:14, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

All of this talk about ''where'' people were born is very misleading. The general opinion is that you have to have been a citizen from birth, not born in the U.S. (or a U.S. territory or whatever). Ted Cruz was born in Canada, but he would have been eligible had he won the nomination and the election. See http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/mar/26/ted-cruz-born-canada-eligible-run-president-update/ for discussion. —[[User:TobyBartels|TobyBartels]] ([[User talk:TobyBartels|talk]]) 20:56, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
*Yes, Kate Brown (governor of Oregon) should be restored to Randall's line of succession, because she was born in Spain while her father was serving in the U.S. Air Force. Presumably she's a U.S. citizen by birth and thus eligible for the presidency. --[[Special:Contributions/172.68.150.52|172.68.150.52]] 22:44, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
** Added her. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foreign-born_United_States_politicians#Governors This page says she's a natural-born citizen]. --[[User:Ycthiognass|Ycthiognass]] ([[User talk:Ycthiognass|talk]]) 08:49, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

I read #7 being that we would have 5 people as co-president. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.122.210|162.158.122.210]] 03:59, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
:Would that also hold for other entries where multiple people are listed (e.g., multiple league MVPs meet the criteria)? Also, there is the "ties broken by born closest to Europa" title text. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.207|162.158.62.207]] 13:31, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

For the 'List of Specific Individuals', should it be maintained by who currently holds those positions, or left as who held them when the comic was posted? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.70.71|172.69.70.71]] 12:14, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
:If you want to come back and update the line as things change in the weeks, months, and years ahead, you're welcome to do so. If you do, I would recommend that both lists (the one accurate as of comic publishing and the one "updated") be maintained, perhaps as one table for fun comparison (adding blank spots as necessary if a current spot falls out of eligibility or a new one becomes eligible for whatever reason. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.207|162.158.62.207]] 13:29, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Tom Hanks is probably a reference to the June 4 Last Week Tonight episode, see http://time.com/5298479/john-oliver-last-week-tonight-guardianship/ {{unsigned ip|162.158.123.85}}

Oh! Question regarding Serena Williams - does it count if her latest match was in a ''doubles'' tournament? She pretty much always teams up with sister Venus in doubles. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.207|162.158.62.207]] 14:52, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Anyone else curious about the apostrophe in "Governor's award"? The current notes imply that it is simply a mistake in "Governors Awards" (the Academy Awards similar to the Oscars), but Governor's awards (i.e., an award by a state Governor) for other areas are quite common (e.g. Clemson University Governor's Award for Excellence in Science and Pennsylvania's Governor's Award for the Arts). Rearranging Oscar and governor from the preceding criterion certainly makes sense, but wild speculation is always more fun... {{unsigned ip|172.68.211.28}}

1933: Santa Facts mentioned Santa being 9th in the presidential line of succession. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.111.7|162.158.111.7]] 08:56, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

To me, #17 (Pullman '''and''' his descendants) seems to imply that we'd abolish the 4-year term and be presided by the Pullman clan for as long as there are eligible successors. #18 might imply that too. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.21|162.158.74.21]] 20:14, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
:Presidential elections are mandated in the Constitution every four years - Bill or any of his descendants, or any qualifying member of the UK royal line of succession, would only serve until the current term ends. (Whether a crisis that knocked so many people ahead of them out of the line would allow a reputable and accepted election is another story.) [[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.139|173.245.52.139]] 15:37, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

I note that if Donald Trump wasn't already holding the office of President, he could only qualify from positions 7 and 20 on Randall's list. And not at all from the actual list. [[User:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For|These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For]] ([[User talk:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For|talk]]) 01:09, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
:He wouldn't have been the only one - Obama's and JFK's previous job title before becoming President was US Senator, and Eisenhower was President of Columbia University. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.139|173.245.52.139]] 15:37, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

There are two problems with this explanation:
The line of succession applies only when the office of president becomes vacant. If the president is incapacitated, the vice president acts as president. If that office is vacant, or the vice precident is also incapacitated, the US will have to do without a president.

The constitution places no restrictions on who can act as president. The current law of succession stipulates that only those elegible to become president can act as president, the constitution does not.
--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.134.154|162.158.134.154]] 08:30, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
:Point 1, the office of President may be vacant but the powers of the Acting President execute the same by whomever the line falls to, and in times of crisis people will nearly certainly just consider them the new President (conflicting claims aside). Point 2 is just false - Article 2 of the Constitution stipulates natural-born citizen at 35 years old and having lived in the US for the last 14 years. Unless you're arguing that "President" and "Acting President" aren't the same? That sure as hell didn't stop John Tyler from refusing to acknowledge anyone who didn't acknowledge him as the new President after William Henry Harrison died a month into his term. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.139|173.245.52.139]] 15:17, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
::Point2: That is exactly what I am saying. Only the vice president can succeed to the presidency. The others would execute the powers of the president. What would most likely happen is that the acting president would appoint a vice president, who would succeed immediately when approved by congress.--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.134.34|162.158.134.34]] 07:50, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
::Point 1: There would be no acting president. Only the vice president can become acting president when the president is incapacitated. This and the office of president being vacant are covered in entirely separate parts of the constitution. The line of succession applies only in the latter case.
::Point 2: That was established in congressional legislation. Only the Vice President can become President when the President is incapcaitated, the rest act using the powers of the president but are not themselves the president.

;The Queen
Shouldn't the Queen come before Charles of Windsor? She is 0th in the British succession line. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.27.246|172.68.27.246]] 20:48, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
::It would violate Royal Oath. [[User:Erkinalp|Erkinalp]] ([[User talk:Erkinalp|talk]]) 13:53, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Since jousting can be a lethal sport (especially if you don't know what you're doing, or like, not wearing armor), I'm left to wonder if part of the whole single-elimination aspect of the competition, where EVERY American is participating, is basically a strategy to literally eliminate everyone there is to be subject to the government's rule (literally eliminate every citizen so the last one left alive is left to be in charge sort of thing) - [[User:Brettpeirce|Brettpeirce]] ([[User talk:Brettpeirce|talk]]) 18:10, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

[[Special:Contributions/172.69.135.184|172.69.135.184]] 07:43, 27 February 2019 (UTC) Foresee a problem with the Billboard Year End chart-toppers: What if a band has anonymous or pseudonymous members and/or deliberately avoids letting one of them assume leadership?
What about the MVPs, should the awards not be given prior to the line of succession reaching them?

;Updates to List of Individuals

Note that this list is supposed to be '''as of the date of the comic''' and should not be updated with changes due to events after that date. [[User:Ianrbibtitlht|Ianrbibtitlht]] ([[User talk:Ianrbibtitlht|talk]]) 17:31, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

I challenge the idea that a version of a legend can be "incorrect". [[User:Nitpicking|Nitpicking]] ([[User talk:Nitpicking|talk]]) 15:22, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
:It's downright factually wrong enough. As a Briton (perhaps, if not a colonial Roman left-over of some kind, the exact details obscured by time and creative reimagining/conflation from the mists of time being several centuries thick by the time he was extensively "chronicled") he was likely a key figure ''opposing'' the arriving Anglo-Saxons of his time, so to be king of the later-constituted "England"/land-of-the-Angles (which was not even a practical neologism, during his supposed reign, across his supposed realm) is an inconsistency that can't even be logically explained by mystical happenings like however such a warrior gets to wield a wet woman's weapon. The celtic fringes (leastwise the P-Celtic bits, on this main island of ours) have far more claim to him than those who eventually spread out from Norfolk/Suffolk/etc and nudged/subsumed them into their current pockets, never mind the post-Hastings mix of transplanted vikings who took over that ruling mantle and went on to shape and solidify the current form of the home-nations. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.35|172.70.90.35]] 19:21, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

The "natural born citizen" might exclude additional members of the British line of succession. Being born in the US doesn't count if your parents were here on a diplomatic passport, and some of them might well have such a passport. Though I'm sure there are (or would be invented) additional subtleties about which passport applied, just as there are to allow the (then-heir to the (Dutch?)) monarch to fly an airplane without it being a state visit. [[User:JimJJewett|JimJJewett]] ([[User talk:JimJJewett|talk]]) 08:23, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Talk:3015: D&D Combinatorics

2024-12-05T07:45:26Z

JimJJewett: Why the m of n might be hard to do with physical chests

The bot originally created this page as “D Combinatorics”. I renamed it to the correct title and tried to get as many of the references as possible (including a few redirects). [[User:JBYoshi|JBYoshi]] ([[User talk:JBYoshi|talk]]) 00:54, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

:The title in the Atom feed (which I'm assuming the bot consumes) is "D Combinatorics". I'm guessing something in Randall's pipeline didn't like the ampersand. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.160|162.158.154.160]] 01:41, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

::Yup, if you look at [https://xkcd.com/3015/info.0.json 3015's JSON] you see that <code>title</code> and <code>safe_title</code> differ, and if you look at the HTML page source you'll see '''3''' different things: <code><title>xkcd: D Combinatorics</title></code>, <code><meta property="og:title" content="D&amp;D Combinatorics"></code>, and <code><div id="ctitle">D&D Combinatorics</div></code>! So probably what happened is Randall entered D&D but was supposed to enter D&amp;D, and the openGraph tags adder code, having to be HTML-aware, decoded & normalized D&D as HTML would, but the other parts of the pipeline just ate it for some reason. {{unsigned ip|172.69.65.224|06:09, 23 November 2024}}

::: The problem now is that the feed doesn't validate (because it contains a bare &) and it's also not updating (maybe because of the previous problem). --[[Special:Contributions/172.71.119.13|172.71.119.13]] 11:10, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

What are the odds of rolling 16 or higher on 3D6+D4? 3D6 average 10.5, D4 average is 2.5, total average should be 13. I do not know how to proceed from here. {{unsigned ip|172.71.147.206|01:14, 23 November 2024}}
:By raw combinatorics: 71 + 52 + 34 + 20 + 10 + 4 + 1 ways to get each of 16 - 22 respectively, for a total of 192, out of 4(6^3) = 864 total. 192/864 simplifies to exactly 2/9. I have no idea how Randall found this; if anyone has an idea, please let me know. [[User:Kaisheng21|Kaisheng21]] ([[User talk:Kaisheng21|talk]]) 01:33, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
::I used some simple python code to loop over every dice and confirm and it's 2/9 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.111|162.158.158.111]] 12:11, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
::I suspect there is no better way of doing it than looping over the dice. As to how Randall discovered it, it was obvious that at least 2d6 would be needed (since d6 is the only D&D dice that has a multiple of 3 sides), and after that my guess is Randall used a combination of a python script and some experimentation to land on the correct choice of dice. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.56|172.70.162.56]] 14:15, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

It seems like we edited the transcript at the same time. The odds of rolling 16 or higher in this situation seem to be 2/9? [[User:Darkmatterisntsquirrels|Darkmatterisntsquirrels]] ([[User talk:Darkmatterisntsquirrels|talk]]) 01:29, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

: There are 864 possible rolls (6 * 6 * 6 * 4). If you enumerate all of the rolls you will find that 192 are 16 or higher. 192/864 = 2/9, the value from the explanation. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.54.139|172.68.54.139]] 01:41, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

I added a table of outcomes to clarify how it works out to 2/9, anyone know how to make it pretty? -- Laurence Cheers {{unsigned ip|172.71.150.247|02:03, 24 November 2024}}

A much simpler approach: Roll two six sided dice and sum the result. You are successful if the result is 5 or 9. That happens 8 times out of 36. 8/36 = 2/9. (Or successful if the sum is 4 or 6, or 2 or 7, or 2,3,4 or 11, or several other combinations.) [[Special:Contributions/172.68.54.139|172.68.54.139]] 01:41, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
:Clever, but dice rolls in D&D involving summing all the dice, applying modifiers, if any, and then comparing to one or more threshold values. Your method makes it very difficult to apply modifiers. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.41.8|162.158.41.8]] 02:49, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
::I think you misunderstand the problem here. This is not skill, no modifiers apply, it's purely probability [[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.111|162.158.158.111]] 12:11, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Minor quibble, arrows aren't fired (unless they're flaming or self-propelled, perhaps), they are shot. (Shotguns are fired of course.) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.41.73|162.158.41.73]] 02:52, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
:Arrows are "loosed", even more accurately. At least to avoid the confusion from how so many things may be shot, or ''a'' shot. (Many different nouns, from a physical measure of liquer/coffee/vaccine to a projectile, or an even abstract fundemental of chance; and, as verb, projectiles perhps may be shot, then so may their targets.) [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.178|172.68.205.178]] 14:32, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
:Well, lets not quarrel over it.[[Special:Contributions/172.71.103.67|172.71.103.67]] 14:37, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
:Too many barbed comments, and I'd be all of a quiver... [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.153|141.101.99.153]] 14:51, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Rolling 22 or lower on percentile dice (or, equivalently, 79 or higher) is close enough, and easier to come up with. (Give or take whether 00 is treated as 100 or zero.) Or directly represent the action: roll a d10. If it's 1-5, you lose. If it's 6-10, roll again; if it's 1-5 you lose, 6-9 you win, 10 roll again. (Modify slightly if you want to distinguish the case of grabbing *two* cursed arrows.) [[User:Jordan Brown|Jordan Brown]] ([[User talk:Jordan Brown|talk]]) 03:26, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Alternative exact solution for getting this probability using dice: Roll: 1d8, 2d6, 1d4 succeed on 19 or higher.{{unsigned ip|172.68.55.11|03:54, 23 November 2024}}

I couldn’t remember the formula for binomial coefficients (“n choose k”), but there’s an easy way to calculate that the probability of drawing no cursed arrows is 2/9 without that formula. You just need to multiply the probabilities that each of the arrows drawn is not cursed. Since only two arrows are drawn, you only have to multiply two numbers.

The probability that the first arrow is not cursed is 5/10 – there are 5 non-cursed arrows and 5 cursed arrows out of 10 total. After taking out one non-cursed arrow, there are 4 non-cursed arrows and 5 cursed arrows out of 9 total, so the probability that the second arrow is not cursed is 4/9. Multiplying the two probabilities, the probability of drawing two non-cursed arrows is (4*5)/(10*9) = 20/90 = 2/9.

I was considering writing this observation in the Explanation section of the page, but I’m not if it belongs there. This solution avoids using formulas from combinatorics, so it might not be connected enough to the comic.—[[User:Roryokane|Roryokane]] ([[User talk:Roryokane|talk]]) 06:02, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

My simple-minded approach:
* Roll d10 once for your first arrow: if 1 to 5, the arrow is cursed, otherwise not;
* Roll d10 again for your second arrow: same rules, but repeat until you have a different number from the first one (so d10 is in fact only a d9 this time)
* I won't calculate probabilities – these are your arrows, live with it ;-) [[Special:Contributions/172.69.109.51|172.69.109.51]] 07:33, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
:That has the benefit (over 3d6+1d4) of telling you which arrow(s) (if either) was cursed. [[User:RegularSizedGuy|RegularSizedGuy]] ([[User talk:RegularSizedGuy|talk]]) 07:52, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
::Also tells you how many cursed arrows are left, which is useful if the next player wants to take their chances with them too.[[Special:Contributions/172.71.103.68|172.71.103.68]] 14:40, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
:If you don't like re-rolls, you can make d9 out of 2d3. Nine possibilities, so just assign one of them (perhaps by rolling them one at a time) to be the more significant digit. Don't have a d3 handy? Use d6 and modulo off the extra! (1=1, 2=2, 3=3, 4=1, 5=2, 6=3) [[Special:Contributions/172.68.150.91|172.68.150.91]] 05:59, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

There seems to be doubt that a "N locks and M keys to unlock them" system could be easily accomplished. I think it could be trivial, with strategically interlocking locked-restraints. A chain formed of bike-locks can give a larger locked loop that can be unlocked by just unlocking any ''single'' one of the constituent locks, leaving the other locked loops to not matter (or you could also try the {{w|Borromean rings}} system, whereby it is again secure against itself, until just one ring is opened up to reveal that the rest now ''aren't even locked at all''...). With almost arbitrary ability to cross-link (or, if you will, repeated/alternating-reflected Borromean triplet connections), you can extend the requirements to more than one unlocking being required (by looping chain elements to mre than just the 'adjacent' loops, sideways onto a parallel meta-loop or up/down the chain, all you might do is allow some slack (could be sufficient to get a thing held directly closed by the taut loop-of-loops, but not enough if the passage of the loop through a hasp/sneck actually prevents the otherwise free movement of the final slide-to-unlock action to occur), but a second (or third, or fourth) unlocking can be required to open-end the whole metaloop of locks. At the top end, M=N solutions are also trivial (e.g. two keys, two locks popularly of safety deposit boxes or [[2677: Two Key System|other things]]). Which is not to say that a specific M-of-N puzzle (where 1<M<N) might not need a ''little'' bit of thought to actually design and implement, but there's no obvious reason why all such combinations shouldn't be nicely doable. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.79.165|172.69.79.165]] 14:56, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
:Can we first confirm that the M-of-N Encryption was what Randall was referencing in the first place? [[Special:Contributions/172.71.154.140|172.71.154.140]] 03:17, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
::No, first confirm that this is what the explanation treats as what Randall was referencing. As it was, "complicated lock mechanics" and/or "magic" were suggested as the only ways of doing this, when this (or what we thought this was) just needs a little thought and N bike-locks suitably entangled. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.58.45|172.70.58.45]] 13:17, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
:I'm glad someone else chimed in on this, because it is definitely ''not'' difficult to require unlocking of multiple discrete locks! I can't even figure out why one might think it would be? [[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 15:55, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
::I had assumed that the locks were built into the chests (as they sometimes are), and that the chests were physically separated. Using m of n keys on a single chest would merely be complicated, but wouldn't really fulfill the description. Leaving the chests unlocked, but tightly wrapped in a locked chain would be more like drawers of a single "chest". I instead assumed that each of m chests had to be individually opened with its own proper key, but you had n chests to choose from. It was unspecified what would happen if you tried pairing a chest to the wrong key; perhaps both the key and the chest would be disabled (melted/stuck/burned/teleported). (And yes, needing only a subset of the chests, but any sufficiently large subset will do, is a semi-standard class of problem; a search for Byzantine Generals or PAXOS algorithm will get you started.) [[User:JimJJewett|JimJJewett]] ([[User talk:JimJJewett|talk]]) 07:45, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

"other polyhedral dice, with the number of faces denoted by dX (e.g., d10 is a 10-sided die, with numbers from 1 to 10 on it)." - the d10 may be a poor choice as exemplar here; Back in the last century, when I was playing D&D, d10 were typically (and uniquely) numbered 0-9, not 1-10. This may no longer be the case, and I may be showing my age, but if it is still the norm, the d8 or d20 might be a better choice of example. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.210.6|172.68.210.6]] 02:40, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
:Typically, I've only seen 0-9 d10s, as part of a "d100" dice pair, with one reading 0-9 & the other reading 0⁰-9⁰... Single d10, mostly seem to come in 1-10? Maybe it depends which reseller one shops at... [[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 15:49, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
::They are usually numbered 0-9, but the 0 represents 10, since writing 10 would require that face to have a different font size. It is still a d10, since the die has ten sides, and still cannot roll at 0. The d100 variant does the same thing with 100, but for the added reason that the 00 face actually does mean 0 when the other die rolls a 1-9. This is the convention, so a die that actually writes 10 on it instead of 0 will be rare. [[User:Stardragon|Stardragon]] ([[User talk:Stardragon|talk]]) 23:14, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

You've all been nerd-sniped. [[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 10:53, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Combinatorics degree? Does such a degree really exist? --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.130.37|162.158.130.37]] 17:19, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
:There are degrees for all kinds of things. A quick search reveals a number of "Combinatorics" or "Combinatorics and <Foo>" (e.g. "Optimisation") degrees. Some of them are marked as Masters degrees, and I haven't dug into the others to see if there are any 'pure' undergraduate ones (apart from anything else, I know there are crucial differences between the structures and scopes of UK and US 'degree courses' to consider, in particular), but there seems to be representation on both sides of the Atlantic (and elsewhere, e.g. Oceana).
:At the very least, it could be a selected specialised segment of an even wider mathematical degree course, or a cross-disciplinary one (like my own, which was part under Physics and part under Computing, but could have included a Stats-based element). [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.49|162.158.74.49]] 19:07, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
::So "Combinatorics and <Foo>" would be meta-combinatorics, since it is combining something with something else. :) [[User:RandalSchwartz|RandalSchwartz]] ([[User talk:RandalSchwartz|talk]]) 20:19, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
:::I shall do my degree in "Combinatorics, Selectivity, Comparison, Decision Making and/or Cross-Designation (Choose Any Three)"... [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.5|172.70.90.5]] 21:28, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm trying this on my DM. -[[User:Psychoticpotato|P?sych??otic?pot??at???o ]] ([[User talk:Psychoticpotato|talk]]) 15:11, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Can someone put into the Explanation the current details regarding the nature of cursed arrows, in whatever edition of DnD we're currently up to. (8th? I've lost track.) In different DnD-like media, I know that it can act somewhat negatively (reduces aim accuracy) or even outright problematic (it curses the person loosing the projectile; or even renders the bow otherwise useless, as analogue to a cursed weapon), or else reduces/inverts the damage (breaks easier, or essentially acts like a thrown beneficial potion to increase health/strength/stamina/etc of the target). I assume that it one of these, from the assumption that the player desires a "good enough" roll to avoid. On the other hand, cursed projectiles could be treated akin to poisoned arrows or vengeful weapons in doing more, better or more targeted damage (in which case it's a powerful aid, the archer is instead taking a chance of using up a stock of 'special arrows', perhaps in line with not knowing whether their foe ''needs'' that extra degree of offensive power). But, at least from the explaining text's approach to dice-roll results, that doesn't exactly mesh with the typical "higher is better" rolling mantra. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.129|172.70.86.129]] 22:43, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't think making an M-of-N mechanism with physical locks would be "extremely cumbersome". For example you could have a bolt that must be drawn back to open the mechanism, with several padlocks over it, where the shackle of each padlock blocks the motion of the bolt, such that the distance you can draw the bolt is proportional to how many padlocks are removed. Removing any m of the n padlocks gives you enough range of motion to open the mechanism.
[[Special:Contributions/172.71.154.224|172.71.154.224]] 23:17, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

A DM with a degree in Combinatorics would be unlikely to find this annoying.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.245|162.158.62.245]] 05:30, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

With up to three D&D dice, it is impossible to achieve 2/9 exactly. The closest you can get is with d6 + 2d10x10 >= 146 (where d10x10 denotes the tens die, ranging from 10 to 100) yielding a probability of 133/600 = 0.2216667. [[User:Vandof|Vandof]] ([[User talk:Vandof|talk]]) 06:27, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

With four D&D dice, 2d6 + d8 + d10 >= 21 and d10 + 2d12 + d20 >= 36 are alternate solutions. The former is more feasible than 3d6 + d4 for those who don't have three d6's. [[User:Vandof|Vandof]] ([[User talk:Vandof|talk]]) 06:49, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

You can do it with two dice, although not by summation. Roll 2d3; if 1,1, or 3,3 pass, else fail. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.167.88|162.158.167.88]] 19:41, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Could someone explain option 6, multiplying two six-sided dice, with a threshold of > 20? I think 66, 65, 64, 56, 55, and 46 all work, making it ... equivalent to 1D6.
[[User:JimJJewett|JimJJewett]] ([[User talk:JimJJewett|talk]]) 07:25, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Talk:3015: D&D Combinatorics

2024-12-05T07:25:27Z

JimJJewett: Question one of the alternative rolling methods

The bot originally created this page as “D Combinatorics”. I renamed it to the correct title and tried to get as many of the references as possible (including a few redirects). [[User:JBYoshi|JBYoshi]] ([[User talk:JBYoshi|talk]]) 00:54, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

:The title in the Atom feed (which I'm assuming the bot consumes) is "D Combinatorics". I'm guessing something in Randall's pipeline didn't like the ampersand. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.160|162.158.154.160]] 01:41, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

::Yup, if you look at [https://xkcd.com/3015/info.0.json 3015's JSON] you see that <code>title</code> and <code>safe_title</code> differ, and if you look at the HTML page source you'll see '''3''' different things: <code><title>xkcd: D Combinatorics</title></code>, <code><meta property="og:title" content="D&amp;D Combinatorics"></code>, and <code><div id="ctitle">D&D Combinatorics</div></code>! So probably what happened is Randall entered D&D but was supposed to enter D&amp;D, and the openGraph tags adder code, having to be HTML-aware, decoded & normalized D&D as HTML would, but the other parts of the pipeline just ate it for some reason. {{unsigned ip|172.69.65.224|06:09, 23 November 2024}}

::: The problem now is that the feed doesn't validate (because it contains a bare &) and it's also not updating (maybe because of the previous problem). --[[Special:Contributions/172.71.119.13|172.71.119.13]] 11:10, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

What are the odds of rolling 16 or higher on 3D6+D4? 3D6 average 10.5, D4 average is 2.5, total average should be 13. I do not know how to proceed from here. {{unsigned ip|172.71.147.206|01:14, 23 November 2024}}
:By raw combinatorics: 71 + 52 + 34 + 20 + 10 + 4 + 1 ways to get each of 16 - 22 respectively, for a total of 192, out of 4(6^3) = 864 total. 192/864 simplifies to exactly 2/9. I have no idea how Randall found this; if anyone has an idea, please let me know. [[User:Kaisheng21|Kaisheng21]] ([[User talk:Kaisheng21|talk]]) 01:33, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
::I used some simple python code to loop over every dice and confirm and it's 2/9 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.111|162.158.158.111]] 12:11, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
::I suspect there is no better way of doing it than looping over the dice. As to how Randall discovered it, it was obvious that at least 2d6 would be needed (since d6 is the only D&D dice that has a multiple of 3 sides), and after that my guess is Randall used a combination of a python script and some experimentation to land on the correct choice of dice. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.56|172.70.162.56]] 14:15, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

It seems like we edited the transcript at the same time. The odds of rolling 16 or higher in this situation seem to be 2/9? [[User:Darkmatterisntsquirrels|Darkmatterisntsquirrels]] ([[User talk:Darkmatterisntsquirrels|talk]]) 01:29, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

: There are 864 possible rolls (6 * 6 * 6 * 4). If you enumerate all of the rolls you will find that 192 are 16 or higher. 192/864 = 2/9, the value from the explanation. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.54.139|172.68.54.139]] 01:41, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

I added a table of outcomes to clarify how it works out to 2/9, anyone know how to make it pretty? -- Laurence Cheers {{unsigned ip|172.71.150.247|02:03, 24 November 2024}}

A much simpler approach: Roll two six sided dice and sum the result. You are successful if the result is 5 or 9. That happens 8 times out of 36. 8/36 = 2/9. (Or successful if the sum is 4 or 6, or 2 or 7, or 2,3,4 or 11, or several other combinations.) [[Special:Contributions/172.68.54.139|172.68.54.139]] 01:41, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
:Clever, but dice rolls in D&D involving summing all the dice, applying modifiers, if any, and then comparing to one or more threshold values. Your method makes it very difficult to apply modifiers. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.41.8|162.158.41.8]] 02:49, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
::I think you misunderstand the problem here. This is not skill, no modifiers apply, it's purely probability [[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.111|162.158.158.111]] 12:11, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Minor quibble, arrows aren't fired (unless they're flaming or self-propelled, perhaps), they are shot. (Shotguns are fired of course.) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.41.73|162.158.41.73]] 02:52, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
:Arrows are "loosed", even more accurately. At least to avoid the confusion from how so many things may be shot, or ''a'' shot. (Many different nouns, from a physical measure of liquer/coffee/vaccine to a projectile, or an even abstract fundemental of chance; and, as verb, projectiles perhps may be shot, then so may their targets.) [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.178|172.68.205.178]] 14:32, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
:Well, lets not quarrel over it.[[Special:Contributions/172.71.103.67|172.71.103.67]] 14:37, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
:Too many barbed comments, and I'd be all of a quiver... [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.153|141.101.99.153]] 14:51, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Rolling 22 or lower on percentile dice (or, equivalently, 79 or higher) is close enough, and easier to come up with. (Give or take whether 00 is treated as 100 or zero.) Or directly represent the action: roll a d10. If it's 1-5, you lose. If it's 6-10, roll again; if it's 1-5 you lose, 6-9 you win, 10 roll again. (Modify slightly if you want to distinguish the case of grabbing *two* cursed arrows.) [[User:Jordan Brown|Jordan Brown]] ([[User talk:Jordan Brown|talk]]) 03:26, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Alternative exact solution for getting this probability using dice: Roll: 1d8, 2d6, 1d4 succeed on 19 or higher.{{unsigned ip|172.68.55.11|03:54, 23 November 2024}}

I couldn’t remember the formula for binomial coefficients (“n choose k”), but there’s an easy way to calculate that the probability of drawing no cursed arrows is 2/9 without that formula. You just need to multiply the probabilities that each of the arrows drawn is not cursed. Since only two arrows are drawn, you only have to multiply two numbers.

The probability that the first arrow is not cursed is 5/10 – there are 5 non-cursed arrows and 5 cursed arrows out of 10 total. After taking out one non-cursed arrow, there are 4 non-cursed arrows and 5 cursed arrows out of 9 total, so the probability that the second arrow is not cursed is 4/9. Multiplying the two probabilities, the probability of drawing two non-cursed arrows is (4*5)/(10*9) = 20/90 = 2/9.

I was considering writing this observation in the Explanation section of the page, but I’m not if it belongs there. This solution avoids using formulas from combinatorics, so it might not be connected enough to the comic.—[[User:Roryokane|Roryokane]] ([[User talk:Roryokane|talk]]) 06:02, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

My simple-minded approach:
* Roll d10 once for your first arrow: if 1 to 5, the arrow is cursed, otherwise not;
* Roll d10 again for your second arrow: same rules, but repeat until you have a different number from the first one (so d10 is in fact only a d9 this time)
* I won't calculate probabilities – these are your arrows, live with it ;-) [[Special:Contributions/172.69.109.51|172.69.109.51]] 07:33, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
:That has the benefit (over 3d6+1d4) of telling you which arrow(s) (if either) was cursed. [[User:RegularSizedGuy|RegularSizedGuy]] ([[User talk:RegularSizedGuy|talk]]) 07:52, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
::Also tells you how many cursed arrows are left, which is useful if the next player wants to take their chances with them too.[[Special:Contributions/172.71.103.68|172.71.103.68]] 14:40, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
:If you don't like re-rolls, you can make d9 out of 2d3. Nine possibilities, so just assign one of them (perhaps by rolling them one at a time) to be the more significant digit. Don't have a d3 handy? Use d6 and modulo off the extra! (1=1, 2=2, 3=3, 4=1, 5=2, 6=3) [[Special:Contributions/172.68.150.91|172.68.150.91]] 05:59, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

There seems to be doubt that a "N locks and M keys to unlock them" system could be easily accomplished. I think it could be trivial, with strategically interlocking locked-restraints. A chain formed of bike-locks can give a larger locked loop that can be unlocked by just unlocking any ''single'' one of the constituent locks, leaving the other locked loops to not matter (or you could also try the {{w|Borromean rings}} system, whereby it is again secure against itself, until just one ring is opened up to reveal that the rest now ''aren't even locked at all''...). With almost arbitrary ability to cross-link (or, if you will, repeated/alternating-reflected Borromean triplet connections), you can extend the requirements to more than one unlocking being required (by looping chain elements to mre than just the 'adjacent' loops, sideways onto a parallel meta-loop or up/down the chain, all you might do is allow some slack (could be sufficient to get a thing held directly closed by the taut loop-of-loops, but not enough if the passage of the loop through a hasp/sneck actually prevents the otherwise free movement of the final slide-to-unlock action to occur), but a second (or third, or fourth) unlocking can be required to open-end the whole metaloop of locks. At the top end, M=N solutions are also trivial (e.g. two keys, two locks popularly of safety deposit boxes or [[2677: Two Key System|other things]]). Which is not to say that a specific M-of-N puzzle (where 1<M<N) might not need a ''little'' bit of thought to actually design and implement, but there's no obvious reason why all such combinations shouldn't be nicely doable. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.79.165|172.69.79.165]] 14:56, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
:Can we first confirm that the M-of-N Encryption was what Randall was referencing in the first place? [[Special:Contributions/172.71.154.140|172.71.154.140]] 03:17, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
::No, first confirm that this is what the explanation treats as what Randall was referencing. As it was, "complicated lock mechanics" and/or "magic" were suggested as the only ways of doing this, when this (or what we thought this was) just needs a little thought and N bike-locks suitably entangled. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.58.45|172.70.58.45]] 13:17, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
:I'm glad someone else chimed in on this, because it is definitely ''not'' difficult to require unlocking of multiple discrete locks! I can't even figure out why one might think it would be? [[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 15:55, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

"other polyhedral dice, with the number of faces denoted by dX (e.g., d10 is a 10-sided die, with numbers from 1 to 10 on it)." - the d10 may be a poor choice as exemplar here; Back in the last century, when I was playing D&D, d10 were typically (and uniquely) numbered 0-9, not 1-10. This may no longer be the case, and I may be showing my age, but if it is still the norm, the d8 or d20 might be a better choice of example. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.210.6|172.68.210.6]] 02:40, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
:Typically, I've only seen 0-9 d10s, as part of a "d100" dice pair, with one reading 0-9 & the other reading 0⁰-9⁰... Single d10, mostly seem to come in 1-10? Maybe it depends which reseller one shops at... [[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 15:49, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
::They are usually numbered 0-9, but the 0 represents 10, since writing 10 would require that face to have a different font size. It is still a d10, since the die has ten sides, and still cannot roll at 0. The d100 variant does the same thing with 100, but for the added reason that the 00 face actually does mean 0 when the other die rolls a 1-9. This is the convention, so a die that actually writes 10 on it instead of 0 will be rare. [[User:Stardragon|Stardragon]] ([[User talk:Stardragon|talk]]) 23:14, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

You've all been nerd-sniped. [[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 10:53, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Combinatorics degree? Does such a degree really exist? --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.130.37|162.158.130.37]] 17:19, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
:There are degrees for all kinds of things. A quick search reveals a number of "Combinatorics" or "Combinatorics and <Foo>" (e.g. "Optimisation") degrees. Some of them are marked as Masters degrees, and I haven't dug into the others to see if there are any 'pure' undergraduate ones (apart from anything else, I know there are crucial differences between the structures and scopes of UK and US 'degree courses' to consider, in particular), but there seems to be representation on both sides of the Atlantic (and elsewhere, e.g. Oceana).
:At the very least, it could be a selected specialised segment of an even wider mathematical degree course, or a cross-disciplinary one (like my own, which was part under Physics and part under Computing, but could have included a Stats-based element). [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.49|162.158.74.49]] 19:07, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
::So "Combinatorics and <Foo>" would be meta-combinatorics, since it is combining something with something else. :) [[User:RandalSchwartz|RandalSchwartz]] ([[User talk:RandalSchwartz|talk]]) 20:19, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
:::I shall do my degree in "Combinatorics, Selectivity, Comparison, Decision Making and/or Cross-Designation (Choose Any Three)"... [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.5|172.70.90.5]] 21:28, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm trying this on my DM. -[[User:Psychoticpotato|P?sych??otic?pot??at???o ]] ([[User talk:Psychoticpotato|talk]]) 15:11, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Can someone put into the Explanation the current details regarding the nature of cursed arrows, in whatever edition of DnD we're currently up to. (8th? I've lost track.) In different DnD-like media, I know that it can act somewhat negatively (reduces aim accuracy) or even outright problematic (it curses the person loosing the projectile; or even renders the bow otherwise useless, as analogue to a cursed weapon), or else reduces/inverts the damage (breaks easier, or essentially acts like a thrown beneficial potion to increase health/strength/stamina/etc of the target). I assume that it one of these, from the assumption that the player desires a "good enough" roll to avoid. On the other hand, cursed projectiles could be treated akin to poisoned arrows or vengeful weapons in doing more, better or more targeted damage (in which case it's a powerful aid, the archer is instead taking a chance of using up a stock of 'special arrows', perhaps in line with not knowing whether their foe ''needs'' that extra degree of offensive power). But, at least from the explaining text's approach to dice-roll results, that doesn't exactly mesh with the typical "higher is better" rolling mantra. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.129|172.70.86.129]] 22:43, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't think making an M-of-N mechanism with physical locks would be "extremely cumbersome". For example you could have a bolt that must be drawn back to open the mechanism, with several padlocks over it, where the shackle of each padlock blocks the motion of the bolt, such that the distance you can draw the bolt is proportional to how many padlocks are removed. Removing any m of the n padlocks gives you enough range of motion to open the mechanism.
[[Special:Contributions/172.71.154.224|172.71.154.224]] 23:17, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

A DM with a degree in Combinatorics would be unlikely to find this annoying.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.245|162.158.62.245]] 05:30, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

With up to three D&D dice, it is impossible to achieve 2/9 exactly. The closest you can get is with d6 + 2d10x10 >= 146 (where d10x10 denotes the tens die, ranging from 10 to 100) yielding a probability of 133/600 = 0.2216667. [[User:Vandof|Vandof]] ([[User talk:Vandof|talk]]) 06:27, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

With four D&D dice, 2d6 + d8 + d10 >= 21 and d10 + 2d12 + d20 >= 36 are alternate solutions. The former is more feasible than 3d6 + d4 for those who don't have three d6's. [[User:Vandof|Vandof]] ([[User talk:Vandof|talk]]) 06:49, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

You can do it with two dice, although not by summation. Roll 2d3; if 1,1, or 3,3 pass, else fail. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.167.88|162.158.167.88]] 19:41, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Could someone explain option 6, multiplying two six-sided dice, with a threshold of > 20? I think 66, 65, 64, 56, 55, and 46 all work, making it ... equivalent to 1D6.
[[User:JimJJewett|JimJJewett]] ([[User talk:JimJJewett|talk]]) 07:25, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Talk:2995: University Commas

2024-10-12T02:34:45Z

JimJJewett: comment reply on subordinate clause example

As Wikipedia notes, the {{w|Harvard comma}} is actually a thing, and synonymous with the Oxford comma. It's hard to understand whether Randall was just ignoring that.
It's interesting to also look at how the various commas are meaningful. For instance, the Yale comma here appears to be just plain ungrammatical, you'd never put a comma between a verb and a its direct object; similarly the Cambridge comma and Princeton commas are ungrammatical, you'd never put one after the word "and." The Stanford comma is unambiguously normal and it's not clear how you could have such a list without it (absent replacement with a [Stanford?] semicolon). The Columbia comma is being used to separate "mac and cheese" into "mac, and[,] cheese" which changes the semantic meaning (arguably into something meaningless, but maybe we're listing Apple Computers or even Macintosh apple fruit abbreviated). The MIT comma is a cute programming joke for multiline lists. Maybe there are hidden trick meanings (like MIT) I'm missing. [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 23:03, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
:On their own, few of them are intrinsically bad, in the right context.
:*"Please, buy" - valid comma. Prefixed subclause (general plea).
:*"Please buy, apples" - valid comma (more specific plea).
:*"apples, mac" - valid comma (list-type).
:*"mac, and" - valid comma (potentially a conjunctive sub-clause).
:*"mac and, cheese" - valid comma (potentially a post-conjunctive sub-clause).
:*"and cheese, milk" - valid comma (follow-up sub-clause).
:*"cheese, milk, and" - Oxford comma. (Thus invalid, by default. IMO.)
:*"milk and, bread." - ...would be valid, as above, except for the sentence ending.
:*"and bread,." - Ok. Definitely the worst. (Except for the Oxford Comma, which is still worserer!)
:Obviously, combinations of them (or counterpart lack of them, in some cases) can clash badly. Some can work well together, but using ()s, ;s or feetnete* is often better than diving in and out of sub-clauses in the midst of a comma-bound list and potentially making it ambiguous whether you're diving in/out of a clarifying aside or replacing a non-terminating conjunction or perhaps one of the other usages to which a comma might apply.
:* Or just generally rewriting a multi-clausal sentence completely! [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.22|172.70.86.22]] 23:30, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::Sorry, no: "and," is bad grammar, except when illustrating a dramatic (but grammatically wrong) verbal pause; ", and" is fine for noting a pause used to divide a list, but it's best to use semicolons in a divided list. IE: "milk; bread; mac and cheese; blood, sweat, and tears". (Again, "blood, sweat and tears", would be atypical cadence if spoken aloud; therefore, the comma.) I don't care what style guides say, only what works well.
::[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 15:11, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
:::What's grammatically wrong about something like "I drink beer and, on occasion, cider"?

Thank you for the "and, on occasion, beer and cider" example. Looking only at the given sentence about a shopping list, I wondered if the subordinate clause suggestion was edit-mangle or a very strange dialect difference. [[User:JimJJewett|JimJJewett]] ([[User talk:JimJJewett|talk]]) 02:34, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

:::Also, the cadence of "blood, sweat and tears" has nothing to do with the commas you give it. This isn't a case of marking verbal ticks, with... uh... transcribed notation. Either for official recording purposes or in the pre-scripting of speech for later performance. One is free to nuance the phrase how you want, with or without OC. The main issue about the OC is whether a list (of ''more'' than two items) should have each (non-final) element followed by a comma? Or are commas placeholders only for the "and"/"or"s that are omited? (And my opinion is that it is the latter, all else being equal. I apply that to semicolon-separated lists, insofar as I won't end with "...; penultimate item; '''and'' last item", but prefer to omit the '''and''' (or '''or'' ), casting whether it's a list of options or an accumulation by the introductory/follow-up contextualisation of that list.)
:::But, whichever standard you prefer, there will be cases where it reads wrongly to others. If you're lucky enough to spot it, then you can look to what you can do to adjust the sentence to remove ambiguity. This does not normally mean adding in any old commas where,,,,, you think a Pinter Pause is needed. (Maybe an ellipsis, in normal writing.) The fact that a grammatical comma may be where a spoken pause may crop up is not because the comma causes the pause. The verbal pause is (if not garbled out) caused by the same understanding of how clauses/etc require intoning under the circumstances.
:::But it is a rhetorical choice as to whether to intone "blood..., sweat... and tears" or "blood, sweat and... tears" or any number of other pausing strategies, as it is how you faithfully transcribe what has already been intoned. When merely listing these in text, your chosen style of grammar is the master. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.160.134|172.70.160.134]] 19:44, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

::Commas can go in a number of places in lists, and, occasionally, after the word "and". [[User:BunsenH|BunsenH]] ([[User talk:BunsenH|talk]]) 23:34, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::Potentially, anything is possible... I can see how a sentence like "Please buy apples, mac and cheese, milk, and, bread being out of stock, oats" would work, but I really don't see how the commas after "and" could work ''in this sentence''. [[User:Transgalactic|Transgalactic]] ([[User talk:Transgalactic|talk]]) 08:34, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

If each item in a list shall be followed by a comma then the MIT comma is quite proper. SDT [[Special:Contributions/172.68.245.206|172.68.245.206]] 05:11, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

The UCLA comma may refer to the 8 clap, a chant at UCLA which is begins with a string of 8 claps. {{unsigned ip|172.68.205.178|07:33, 8 October 2024}}

I thought the UCLA & Michigan commas referred to quotes within citations. This isn't uncommon in literary studies, where you quote articles quoting books. Depending on your quotation style, this can result in a long string of 3-4 "commas" (as in: short lines in punctuation marks). If you place the quote between actual commas, make that 4-5. [[User:Transgalactic|Transgalactic]] ([[User talk:Transgalactic|talk]]) 08:34, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

I think the tirade against the Oxford comma in the article is not relevant for understanding the comic. "'To my mother, Ayn Rand and God' does not" is not saying that Ayn Rand is the mother. To express that one should write "To my mother, Ayn Rand, and to God". Thus the ambiguity can be resolved. I believe one of the editors is mixing in their personal taste here. --[[Special:Contributions/172.71.160.71|172.71.160.71]] 09:03, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:Tirade? Hardly. It explains when it doesn't help (and when it might).
:And I think you misread. "'To my mother, Ayn Rand and God' does not" indeed does not say that Ayn Rand is the mother. In fact it ''explicitly'' says that "'To my mother, Ayn Rand and God'"... erm... does ''not'' say the thing that 'To my mother, Ayn Rand, and God' ''potentially'' does. (See table below.)
:The choice of how to disambiguate "my mother, who is Ayn Rand", as a concept, is another thing and has multiple options. Disambiguating in the direction of a simple list is the contention surrounding the Oxford(/Serial) Comma itself (it is, by definition, being used in the list format), given that some circumstances are most helped by it and others are most helped by its absence. If you're strongly for the OC, you'll hopefully rewrite problematic OCed formulations so that you can use it. If you're strongly against it you should change problamatic non-OCed versions so that you can better go without one. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.128|172.70.85.128]] 10:21, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Inspired (a bit) by the Three Laws permutation table, a set of possible ambiguations from the straight list...
{| class="wikitable"
!A !!B !!C !!"A, B and C" !!"A, B, and C"
|-
|my parents||Ayn Rand||God||"my parents (who are Ayn Rand and God)"||''list only''*
|-
|my parents||God||Ayn Rand||"my parents (who are God and Ayn Rand)"||''list only''*
|-
|Ayn Rand||my parents||God||''list only''* ||''list only''*
|-
|Ayn Rand||God||my parents||''list only''* ||"Ayn Rand (who is God), and my parents"
|-
|God||my parents||Ayn Rand||''list only''* ||''list only''*
|-
|God||Ayn Rand||my parents||''list only''* ||"God (who is Ayn Rand), and my parents"
|}
:-* - Assuming no other "All You Zombies" and/or divine incarnation scenarios.
:...maybe it's too early in the morning, but I'm sure I'm missing other ambiguities I've commented on before. (Without necesarily going into the asterisked territories.) Anyone want to amend this? [[Special:Contributions/172.68.186.105|172.68.186.105]] 09:56, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::Love it! [[User:Transgalactic|Transgalactic]] ([[User talk:Transgalactic|talk]]) 10:14, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::There's additional potential ambiguity if you go with the singular "my mother" as opposed to the plural "my parents". "My mother, Ayn Rand, and God" (with the Oxford comma) could be listing 2 separate entities while indicating that my mother is Ayn Rand, or could be listing 3 separate entities. "My mother, Ayn Rand and God" (without the Oxford comma) could be referring to a single entity while indicating that my mother is both Ayn Rand and God, or listing 3 separate entities. (In a phrase like, "My mother, Ayn Rand and God, gave it to me," the comma after God indicates that it's one entity, but you lose that clarity with "It was given to me by my mother, Ayn Rand and God." [[Special:Contributions/172.68.70.66|172.68.70.66]] 14:25, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::What if my mother, Ayn Rand, and God are actually the trinity?[[Special:Contributions/172.69.195.87|172.69.195.87]] 08:23, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
::::I myself, was fully expecting one of the examples given, to be: "To my God and mother, Ayn Rand". [[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 15:15, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

I realize that this comic focuses on University commas, however I feel that some mention should be made about the Walken Comma and the Shatner Comma! [[Special:Contributions/172.70.114.103|172.70.114.103]] 10:57, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:What, do you,    mean by,   that? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.195.106|172.69.195.106]] 13:29, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::Here's the explanation: [https://www.joeydevilla.com/2015/06/26/a-visual-guide-to-the-different-comma-styles/ Walken and Shatner Commas] [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.228|162.158.62.228]] 11:43, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

{{w|Mac and cheese}} is probably not well-known outside the US (especially not under that name). --[[Special:Contributions/172.71.160.115|172.71.160.115]] 13:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:As usual, the Brits don't know how to name food. "Macaroni cheese" sounds like the macaroni is made of cheese. But I added an explanation and link to the Wikipedia page. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 14:30, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::Don't be silly, that would clearly be named "cheese macaroni". Macaroni cheese is clearly cheese for macaroni, and it's simply polite to serve macaroni to have it with as well. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.151.114|172.71.151.114]] 14:39, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::: By the logic of your second interpretation, "cheese macaroni" is clearly macaroni for cheese. The lexical existence of this separate form of macaroni begs the question: what kind of macaroni goes best with macaroni cheese? The plain kind or cheese macaroni? The answer is neither! The best kind of macaroni to serve with macaroni cheese is clearly macaroni-cheese macaroni. But then what kind of cheese goes best with that? None other than (macaroni cheese)-macaroni cheese, which in turn is best served with ((macaroni cheese) macaroni)-cheese macaroni. This interleaving of macaroni and cheese never ends, meaning that no matter where you choose to stop, you will always end up with a sub-optimal pairing. So it's best to just not eat any form of cheese with any form of macaroni, to avoid disappointment. As an aside, the logic of your first interpretation implies that "macaroni cheese" is actually cheese that's made of macaroni. [[User:MelodiousThunk|MelodiousThunk]] ([[User talk:MelodiousThunk|talk]]) 12:48, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
::As opposed to 'mac and cheese', which sounds like a particularly unappetising dish made using a waterproof coat.[[Special:Contributions/172.68.186.92|172.68.186.92]] 15:43, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
::::Oddly, US English goes the other way with "grilled cheese", neglecting to mention that the cheese should be placed between slices of bread before grilling; in British English, it would generally be called a "cheese toastie". (Until looking it up, I was under the mistaken belief that it was a name for what we would call "cheese on toast", which also involves grilling the cheese, on the toast.) - [[User:IMSoP|IMSoP]] ([[User talk:IMSoP|talk]]) 21:16, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
:'Mac & cheese' is, sadly, probably more common in the UK now than the proper 'macaroni cheese'.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.47|141.101.99.47]] 08:25, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

I'm not opposed to the added red text in the Notation column, but it needs to be explained in the Explanation column. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.8|162.158.90.8]] 00:18, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Could this, at least in part, be about typography, not grammar and style? The depicted commas are not all the same. [[User:Divad27182|Divad27182]] ([[User talk:Divad27182|talk]]) 10:42, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Specifically, MIT is the home of the Rust language, which prominently uses trailing commas after the last item in a list as a matter of programming style.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.211|172.70.214.211]]

ABAP uses dots as end-of-command delimiters. {{unsigned ip|162.158.202.92|06:13, 11 October 2024}}

== ! UNRESOLVED VERSION CONFLICT ! ==
There has been a problem with different versions. I shifted a paragraph, but the [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2995:_University_Commas&oldid=352624 version that got saved] had 1615 characters less than before. A whole lot of rambling had been removed from the explanation, but there was no version conflict warning and no other saved revision in the [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2995:_University_Commas&action=history revision history]. I didn't want to take credit for the changes, though I appreciated them, so I undid my edit, then redid my shift of paragraphs, and hoped that the other editor would reconcile the versions. That didn't happen. I'm writing this note to draw attention to the "lost edit". [[User:Transgalactic|Transgalactic]] ([[User talk:Transgalactic|talk]]) 18:28, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

2995: University Commas

2024-10-12T02:13:42Z

JimJJewett: /* Explanation */ slightly better punctuation

{{comic
| number = 2995
| date = October 7, 2024
| title = University Commas
| image = university_commas_2x.png
| imagesize = 580x273px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = The distinctive 'UCLA comma' and 'Michigan comma' are a long string of commas at the start and end of the sentence respectively.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a STANFORD SEMICOLON - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

The use of commas in the English language is {{w|Comma#Uses in English|famously disputed}}, most relevantly among publishers and academics. This comic imagines that all possible (and some improbable) comma positions in an example sentence are associated with different universities. This applies to commas which should ''always'' be present in a list, optional commas elsewhere in the sentence (which have nothing to do with a list, such as after the word "please") and blatantly erroneous commas (which should ''never'' be present in a sentence, e.g. immediately prior to the {{w|full stop}}/period).

The Oxford comma (a.k.a. {{w|serial comma}} or, despite how this comic represents it, the ''actual'' Harvard comma) is a comma between the penultimate item in a list and its conjunction (typically ''and'' or ''or''), to echo all the commas (at least one) that act as {{w|Comma#List separator and the serial (Oxford) comma|placeholders for the conjunction}} in-between all prior members of the list. For instance, you might write "red, white, and blue" (with the Oxford comma) or "red, white and blue" (without it). Some style guides, such as ''{{w|The Oxford Style Manual}}'' published by {{w|Oxford University Press}}, (unsurprisingly) recommend using it, while other similarly authoritative guides recommend against it. Though even those with either recommendation may suggest its (non-)use in situations where this avoids an ambiguity arising from the normally recommended choice.

One {{w|Serial comma#Ambiguity|common example}} showing the need for an Oxford comma is "To my parents, Ayn Rand''',''' and God". Without the comma (as in: "To my parents, Ayn Rand and God"), it may read that the author's parents are Ayn Rand and God. If such confusion is to be avoided, reordering the list is a common way to avoid ambiguity, for example, "To Ayn Rand, God and my parents" is one such reordering. However, the use of an Oxford comma in this version might imply the deification of Ayn Rand. Conversely, if the sentence was instead to be "To my mother, Ayn Rand, and God", with such a comma, there arises the possibility of an assertion that one's mother is Ayn Rand, whereas "To my mother, Ayn Rand and God" does not let one fall into that trap.

{{w|Macaroni and cheese}} (often shortened to "Mac and cheese" in the US and Canada) should be considered a single item in a list like this. When just two items are joined together, e.g. to name a compound food such as "peanut butter and jelly", "fish and chips" or "steak and eggs", a comma isn't placed before "and". It is in the use of such compounded items, as a singular list item, where some confusion can arise. Alternate forms ("fish'n'chips", "PB&J") can put emphasis upon the low-level linking of the components, the outer list can be rewritten (e.g. with semicolon separation) or the reader can be left to logically assume where such a commonly encountered pairing is not part of the wider list. A difference in conjunction can also help to clarify, as in "A good choice of breakfast is ham and eggs, sausage and eggs or sausage and beans, but not ham and beans", which is ''unlikely'' to be accidentally misunderstood (including as options such as "sausage + (eggs or additional sausage) + beans" or "sausage + ('non-ham' beans) + further beans").

In the most common interpretation the example sentence reads (with proper punctuation and bracketed Oxford comma): "Please buy apples, mac and cheese, milk[,] and bread."

However, most of the commas are possible punctuation marks in a specific pragmatic reading of the sentence:

{| class="wikitable" style="margin:auto"
|-
! Comma name !! Notation !! Explanation
|-
| Harvard comma || Please, buy apples, mac and cheese, milk[,] and bread. || Emphatic plea, marked by a sub-clause separator. (Note that "Harvard comma" is already a common synonym for the Oxford comma, in its context.)
{{w|Harvard University}} is one of eight {{w|Ivy League}} universities in the United States.
|-
| Yale comma || Please buy, apples, mac and cheese, milk[,] and bread. || A merchant's plea to their customer, marked by a sub-clause separator. This makes the sentence a sentence fragment but this is not uncommon in speech. One use of a comma is to indicate a pause in speech — as it would here — though more formal writing would typically used a more specific punctuation mark, such as a colon. The implication may be that the list of items are those for sale or that there is a promotion around those items specifically.
{{w|Yale University}} is one of eight Ivy League universities in the United States.
|-
| Stanford comma || Please buy apples, mac and cheese, milk[,] and bread. || Mandatory separator in a list.
{{w|Stanford University}} is one of the prominent universities in the United States. It is located in Silicon Valley, a short distance from the headquarters of {{w|Apple Inc.}} The Stanford comma between "apples" and "mac" is probably necessary there to distinguish discussions of the food products from discussion of the computer products.
|-
| Columbia comma || Please buy apples, mac, and cheese, milk[,] and bread. || A plea to buy apples, cheese, milk and bread, directed at a person called Mac, whose name is stylized as "mac".

Alternatively, a plea to buy apples, a raincoat, cheese, milk[,] and bread. The first 'and' would then be superfluous, but this could reflect the speaker adding the last two items in the moment to an initial request for the first three.

{{w|Columbia University}} is one of eight Ivy League universities in the United States.
|-
| Cambridge comma || (Please buy apples, mac, and, cheese being unavailable, milk[,] and bread.) || Valid with a qualifying sub-clause; invalid in the example sentence. Also requires "mac" to be an item of its own, not a part of "mac and cheese".
The {{w|University of Cambridge}} is one of the two eponymous {{w|Oxbridge}} universities in the United Kingdom. Not to be confused with {{w|Cambridge, Massachusetts#Higher education|other establishments}} in (or originally in) Cambridge, Massachusetts.
|-
| Cornell comma || Please buy apples, mac and cheese, milk[,] and bread. || Mandatory separator in a list.
{{w|Cornell University}} is one of eight Ivy League universities in the United States. It has {{w|Cornell Dairy|its own dairy farm}}, which is why the Cornell comma is placed between dairy products, "cheese" and "milk".
|-
| Oxford comma || Please buy apples, mac and cheese, milk, and bread. || The {{w|Oxford comma}}, as discussed above, is a comma often used in lists (with more than two elements) to further separate the last two elements and thus attempt to avoid ambiguity. In this case, it is unlikely that there would be confusion as to how to interpret the given list, with or without this comma.
The {{w|University of Oxford}} is the other eponymous Oxbridge university in the United Kingdom.
|-
| Princeton comma || (Please buy apples, mac and cheese, milk[,] and, bread being out of stock, oats.) || Valid with a qualifying sub-clause; invalid in the example sentence.
{{w|Princeton University}} is one of eight Ivy League universities in the United States.
|-
| MIT comma || (Please, buy, apples, mac, and, cheese, milk, and, bread,.) || Possible reference to [https://stackoverflow.com/questions/11597901/why-are-trailing-commas-allowed-in-a-list trailing commas sometimes used in programming], which would be associated with a university highly specialized in technology. If each of these words were identifiers, then including all commas would be a valid way to express a list in some languages (though using a period to indicate the end of a list is uncommon). Specifically, MIT is home to the Rust programming language, which uses trailing commas for the last item of a list as a matter of programming style.
The {{w|Massachusetts Institute of Technology}} is one of the prominent universities in the United States.
|-
| UCLA/Michigan comma(s) || (,,,…,,,Please, buy, apples, mac, and, cheese, milk, and, bread,.,,,…,,,) || '''Title text proposal''', each establishment being perhaps responsible for both or either sets of commas. Can perhaps relate to rather specific quotation or quote-separation contexts not in common use.
The {{w|University of California, Los Angeles}} and the {{w|University of Michigan}} are two more well known universities in the United States.
|}

Depending upon who you talk to, the two establishments referenced by the title text may not be considered quite as prominent or outstanding as the Ivy League universities, or others mentioned here, hence their relegation to title text punchline. But (actual Ivy Leaguers) {{w|Brown University}}, {{w|Dartmouth College}} and the {{w|University of Pennsylvania}} were not referenced at all, for one reason or another; for example, the very idea of a "Brown comma" might more readily resonate with the concept of the {{w|Brown note}}.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[A sentence is written in greyed-out text, with the commas in black and each labeled with an arrow.]
:Please''',''' buy''',''' apples''',''' mac''',''' and''',''' cheese''',''' milk''',''' and''',''' bread''','''.

:[The labels are as follows, in order from left to right:]
:Harvard comma
:Yale comma
:Stanford comma
:Columbia comma
:Cambridge comma
:Cornell comma
:Oxford comma
:Princeton comma
:MIT comma

:[Caption below the panel:]
:The Oxford one is the most famous, but many major universities have their own comma.

==Trivia==
[[Randall]] appears to be a fairly regular user of the Serial/Oxford Comma himself, with the most recent example being in the title text of [[2985: Craters]]. This is clearly out of habit or preference, as it is not required for clarification purposes. Yet it seems he also appreciates the conflicting viewpoints inherent to such a style opinion. He later completely avoided the use of list-commas in a (three-part) list within the comic text of the successive [[2986: Every Scientific Field]], possibly for rhetorical reasons.

This very wiki currently reminds anyone editing a page that their contributions "may be edited, altered, or removed", which is also not a syntactical necessity beyond adherence to the Oxford styling. Later, in the same paragraph of text, it also uses structure of "…, or … or …", but for different grammatical reasons that are unrelated to serial/list commas.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics with lowercase text]]
[[Category:Language]]
[[Category:Food]]

2995: University Commas

2024-10-12T02:11:21Z

JimJJewett: /* Explanation */ The "buy," comma is a pause

{{comic
| number = 2995
| date = October 7, 2024
| title = University Commas
| image = university_commas_2x.png
| imagesize = 580x273px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = The distinctive 'UCLA comma' and 'Michigan comma' are a long string of commas at the start and end of the sentence respectively.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a STANFORD SEMICOLON - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

The use of commas in the English language is {{w|Comma#Uses in English|famously disputed}}, most relevantly among publishers and academics. This comic imagines that all possible (and some improbable) comma positions in an example sentence are associated with different universities. This applies to commas which should ''always'' be present in a list, optional commas elsewhere in the sentence (which have nothing to do with a list, such as after the word "please") and blatantly erroneous commas (which should ''never'' be present in a sentence, e.g. immediately prior to the {{w|full stop}}/period).

The Oxford comma (a.k.a. {{w|serial comma}} or, despite how this comic represents it, the ''actual'' Harvard comma) is a comma between the penultimate item in a list and its conjunction (typically ''and'' or ''or''), to echo all the commas (at least one) that act as {{w|Comma#List separator and the serial (Oxford) comma|placeholders for the conjunction}} in-between all prior members of the list. For instance, you might write "red, white, and blue" (with the Oxford comma) or "red, white and blue" (without it). Some style guides, such as ''{{w|The Oxford Style Manual}}'' published by {{w|Oxford University Press}}, (unsurprisingly) recommend using it, while other similarly authoritative guides recommend against it. Though even those with either recommendation may suggest its (non-)use in situations where this avoids an ambiguity arising from the normally recommended choice.

One {{w|Serial comma#Ambiguity|common example}} showing the need for an Oxford comma is "To my parents, Ayn Rand''',''' and God". Without the comma (as in: "To my parents, Ayn Rand and God"), it may read that the author's parents are Ayn Rand and God. If such confusion is to be avoided, reordering the list is a common way to avoid ambiguity, for example, "To Ayn Rand, God and my parents" is one such reordering. However, the use of an Oxford comma in this version might imply the deification of Ayn Rand. Conversely, if the sentence was instead to be "To my mother, Ayn Rand, and God", with such a comma, there arises the possibility of an assertion that one's mother is Ayn Rand, whereas "To my mother, Ayn Rand and God" does not let one fall into that trap.

{{w|Macaroni and cheese}} (often shortened to "Mac and cheese" in the US and Canada) should be considered a single item in a list like this. When just two items are joined together, e.g. to name a compound food such as "peanut butter and jelly", "fish and chips" or "steak and eggs", a comma isn't placed before "and". It is in the use of such compounded items, as a singular list item, where some confusion can arise. Alternate forms ("fish'n'chips", "PB&J") can put emphasis upon the low-level linking of the components, the outer list can be rewritten (e.g. with semicolon separation) or the reader can be left to logically assume where such a commonly encountered pairing is not part of the wider list. A difference in conjunction can also help to clarify, as in "A good choice of breakfast is ham and eggs, sausage and eggs or sausage and beans, but not ham and beans", which is ''unlikely'' to be accidentally misunderstood (including as options such as "sausage + (eggs or additional sausage) + beans" or "sausage + ('non-ham' beans) + further beans").

In the most common interpretation the example sentence reads (with proper punctuation and bracketed Oxford comma): "Please buy apples, mac and cheese, milk[,] and bread."

However, most of the commas are possible punctuation marks in a specific pragmatic reading of the sentence:

{| class="wikitable" style="margin:auto"
|-
! Comma name !! Notation !! Explanation
|-
| Harvard comma || Please, buy apples, mac and cheese, milk[,] and bread. || Emphatic plea, marked by a sub-clause separator. (Note that "Harvard comma" is already a common synonym for the Oxford comma, in its context.)
{{w|Harvard University}} is one of eight {{w|Ivy League}} universities in the United States.
|-
| Yale comma || Please buy, apples, mac and cheese, milk[,] and bread. || A merchant's plea to their customer, marked by a sub-clause separator. This makes the sentence a sentence fragment but this is not uncommon in speech. One use of a comma is to indicate a pause in speech -- as it would here, though more formal writing would typically used a more specific punctuation mark, such as a colon. The implication may be that the list of items are those for sale or that there is a promotion around those items specifically.
{{w|Yale University}} is one of eight Ivy League universities in the United States.
|-
| Stanford comma || Please buy apples, mac and cheese, milk[,] and bread. || Mandatory separator in a list.
{{w|Stanford University}} is one of the prominent universities in the United States. It is located in Silicon Valley, a short distance from the headquarters of {{w|Apple Inc.}} The Stanford comma between "apples" and "mac" is probably necessary there to distinguish discussions of the food products from discussion of the computer products.
|-
| Columbia comma || Please buy apples, mac, and cheese, milk[,] and bread. || A plea to buy apples, cheese, milk and bread, directed at a person called Mac, whose name is stylized as "mac".

Alternatively, a plea to buy apples, a raincoat, cheese, milk[,] and bread. The first 'and' would then be superfluous, but this could reflect the speaker adding the last two items in the moment to an initial request for the first three.

{{w|Columbia University}} is one of eight Ivy League universities in the United States.
|-
| Cambridge comma || (Please buy apples, mac, and, cheese being unavailable, milk[,] and bread.) || Valid with a qualifying sub-clause; invalid in the example sentence. Also requires "mac" to be an item of its own, not a part of "mac and cheese".
The {{w|University of Cambridge}} is one of the two eponymous {{w|Oxbridge}} universities in the United Kingdom. Not to be confused with {{w|Cambridge, Massachusetts#Higher education|other establishments}} in (or originally in) Cambridge, Massachusetts.
|-
| Cornell comma || Please buy apples, mac and cheese, milk[,] and bread. || Mandatory separator in a list.
{{w|Cornell University}} is one of eight Ivy League universities in the United States. It has {{w|Cornell Dairy|its own dairy farm}}, which is why the Cornell comma is placed between dairy products, "cheese" and "milk".
|-
| Oxford comma || Please buy apples, mac and cheese, milk, and bread. || The {{w|Oxford comma}}, as discussed above, is a comma often used in lists (with more than two elements) to further separate the last two elements and thus attempt to avoid ambiguity. In this case, it is unlikely that there would be confusion as to how to interpret the given list, with or without this comma.
The {{w|University of Oxford}} is the other eponymous Oxbridge university in the United Kingdom.
|-
| Princeton comma || (Please buy apples, mac and cheese, milk[,] and, bread being out of stock, oats.) || Valid with a qualifying sub-clause; invalid in the example sentence.
{{w|Princeton University}} is one of eight Ivy League universities in the United States.
|-
| MIT comma || (Please, buy, apples, mac, and, cheese, milk, and, bread,.) || Possible reference to [https://stackoverflow.com/questions/11597901/why-are-trailing-commas-allowed-in-a-list trailing commas sometimes used in programming], which would be associated with a university highly specialized in technology. If each of these words were identifiers, then including all commas would be a valid way to express a list in some languages (though using a period to indicate the end of a list is uncommon). Specifically, MIT is home to the Rust programming language, which uses trailing commas for the last item of a list as a matter of programming style.
The {{w|Massachusetts Institute of Technology}} is one of the prominent universities in the United States.
|-
| UCLA/Michigan comma(s) || (,,,…,,,Please, buy, apples, mac, and, cheese, milk, and, bread,.,,,…,,,) || '''Title text proposal''', each establishment being perhaps responsible for both or either sets of commas. Can perhaps relate to rather specific quotation or quote-separation contexts not in common use.
The {{w|University of California, Los Angeles}} and the {{w|University of Michigan}} are two more well known universities in the United States.
|}

Depending upon who you talk to, the two establishments referenced by the title text may not be considered quite as prominent or outstanding as the Ivy League universities, or others mentioned here, hence their relegation to title text punchline. But (actual Ivy Leaguers) {{w|Brown University}}, {{w|Dartmouth College}} and the {{w|University of Pennsylvania}} were not referenced at all, for one reason or another; for example, the very idea of a "Brown comma" might more readily resonate with the concept of the {{w|Brown note}}.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[A sentence is written in greyed-out text, with the commas in black and each labeled with an arrow.]
:Please''',''' buy''',''' apples''',''' mac''',''' and''',''' cheese''',''' milk''',''' and''',''' bread''','''.

:[The labels are as follows, in order from left to right:]
:Harvard comma
:Yale comma
:Stanford comma
:Columbia comma
:Cambridge comma
:Cornell comma
:Oxford comma
:Princeton comma
:MIT comma

:[Caption below the panel:]
:The Oxford one is the most famous, but many major universities have their own comma.

==Trivia==
[[Randall]] appears to be a fairly regular user of the Serial/Oxford Comma himself, with the most recent example being in the title text of [[2985: Craters]]. This is clearly out of habit or preference, as it is not required for clarification purposes. Yet it seems he also appreciates the conflicting viewpoints inherent to such a style opinion. He later completely avoided the use of list-commas in a (three-part) list within the comic text of the successive [[2986: Every Scientific Field]], possibly for rhetorical reasons.

This very wiki currently reminds anyone editing a page that their contributions "may be edited, altered, or removed", which is also not a syntactical necessity beyond adherence to the Oxford styling. Later, in the same paragraph of text, it also uses structure of "…, or … or …", but for different grammatical reasons that are unrelated to serial/list commas.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics with lowercase text]]
[[Category:Language]]
[[Category:Food]]

2989: Physics Lab Thermostat

2024-09-25T14:44:28Z

JimJJewett: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 2989
| date = September 23, 2024
| title = Physics Lab Thermostat
| image = physics_lab_thermostat_2x.png
| imagesize = 264x296px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = Hopefully the HVAC people set it to only affect the AIR in the room.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a BOLTZMANN BRAIN - Given the calculations mentioned in the comment, it would seem that the thermostat works normally in the way that turning it clockwise will increase the temperature. This should be mentioned and some kind of calculation like the one mentioned in comments section could be added for clarity/reference. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

A thermostat is often used to regulate the operation of heating and/or cooling for a room. This may take the form of a simple dial, graduated by desired temperature values typically marked Celsius or Fahrenheit, depending upon {{w|Fahrenheit#Usage|location}}. (But see [[2292: Thermometer]]) Typically a person is expected to know what sort of temperature they will find comfortable, to have heating/cooling effects kick in as the wall-device detects a temperature more than a certain amount below/above that ideal. The basic design of a physical wall-mounted dial might relate the relative position of the dial against the current state of a {{w|Bimetallic strip#Thermostats|bimetallic coil}}, switching {{w|Bang–bang control|on or off}} the relevant systems once conditions locally drift away from the chosen ideal.

In this comic, the thermostat is installed in a physics lab, with those that work there clearly being expected to be familiar with the {{w|Boltzmann constant}}, a more fundamental method of measuring temperature which relates the average kinetic energy of a particle in a gas with the temperature of that gas. The Boltzmann constant is defined as 1.380649 × 10-23 J/K (joules per kelvin), a value that's used in the definition of {{w|SI base units}}.

Thus Randall imagines a physics lab having a dial that can alter the constant between 1.418 x 10-23 J/K and 1.351 x 10-23 J/K. If the average kinetic energy of gas particles remains constant when moving the dial, then changing the Boltzmann constant would change how this average energy is measured in {{w|kelvin}} (and therefore {{w|Conversion of scales of temperature#Comparison of temperature scales|any other measure}} of temperature), thus "changing the temperature". The equation is E=''k''T where ''k'' is the Boltzmann constant. Notice that if E is the same, lowering ''k'' implies a raised T, so the thermostat 'works' as intended. The effective range of the thermostat, presuming it is set to "room temperature" of 23°C (73°F), runs from 15°C to 29°C (59°F to 85°F).

You can build this "thermostat" in real life and use it to "control the temperature" of the room, even if you just craft it out of two pieces of cardboard. Assume you want a nice and warm room temperature of 300 K (about 27°C or 80°F). Rather than controlling the nature of the airflow into the lab (or convection heaters/coolers around it), or indeed having any effect on anything, it sets the definition of "1 kelvin" to a value between "each degree of freedom of every molecule has on average 1.418 x 10-23 J" and "each degree of freedom of every molecule has on average 1.351 x 10-23 J" that would correspond to the current warmth in the room being 300 K. With less energy needed for each kelvin, you have more of them. 

There have previously been control panels for properties of the universe in [[1620: Christmas Settings]] and [[1763: Catcalling]].

Because the Boltzmann constant is primarily concerned with the nature of temperature within a gas, the title text expresses concern that it might not only be applied to the air (hence the capital letters) in the room. Aside from the possibility that those responsible for the {{w|heating, ventilation, and air conditioning}} (HVAC) of the room could perhaps directly enhance or suppress the temperature in all the solids and liquids within the room, in unknown and not necessarily desirable ways, there may also be a secondary joke in which {{w|high voltage}} forms of {{w|alternating current}} (also referred to as HVAC) are influenced, in the related but distinct use of the measure for '{{w|Boltzmann constant#Thermal voltage|thermal voltage}}'.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[A black circular dial is shown with a white indicator line at the upper right. The label above the dial, enclosed in a rectangular box, says:]
:Local Boltzmann Constant
:[The two extremes of the dial are labeled as follows, the first value on the left and the second value on the right:]
:1.418×10-23 J/K
:1.351×10-23 J/K
:[The indicator line is pointing to a position on the dial somewhere around 1.375×10-23 J/K (between the 12th and 13th large ticks clockwise out of 19 total).]
:[Caption below the panel:]
:Physics Lab Thermostat

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Physics]]

2989: Physics Lab Thermostat

2024-09-25T14:42:00Z

JimJJewett:

{{comic
| number = 2989
| date = September 23, 2024
| title = Physics Lab Thermostat
| image = physics_lab_thermostat_2x.png
| imagesize = 264x296px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = Hopefully the HVAC people set it to only affect the AIR in the room.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a BOLTZMANN BRAIN - Given the calculations mentioned in the comment, it would seem that the thermostat works normally in the way that turning it clockwise will increase the temperature. This should be mentioned and some kind of calculation like the one mentioned in comments section could be added for clarity/reference. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

A thermostat is often used to regulate the operation of heating and/or cooling for a room. This may take the form of a simple dial, graduated by desired temperature values typically marked Celsius or Fahrenheit, depending upon {{w|Fahrenheit#Usage|location}}. Typically a person is expected to know what sort of temperature they will find comfortable, to have heating/cooling effects kick in as the wall-device detects a temperature more than a certain amount below/above that ideal. The basic design of a physical wall-mounted dial might relate the relative position of the dial against the current state of a {{w|Bimetallic strip#Thermostats|bimetallic coil}}, switching {{w|Bang–bang control|on or off}} the relevant systems once conditions locally drift away from the chosen ideal.

In this comic, the thermostat is installed in a physics lab, with those that work there clearly being expected to be familiar with the {{w|Boltzmann constant}}, a more fundamental method of measuring temperature which relates the average kinetic energy of a particle in a gas with the temperature of that gas. The Boltzmann constant is defined as 1.380649 × 10-23 J/K (joules per kelvin), a value that's used in the definition of {{w|SI base units}}.

Thus Randall imagines a physics lab having a dial that can alter the constant between 1.418 x 10-23 J/K and 1.351 x 10-23 J/K. If the average kinetic energy of gas particles remains constant when moving the dial, then changing the Boltzmann constant would change how this average energy is measured in {{w|kelvin}} (and therefore {{w|Conversion of scales of temperature#Comparison of temperature scales|any other measure}} of temperature), thus "changing the temperature". The equation is E=''k''T where ''k'' is the Boltzmann constant. Notice that if E is the same, lowering ''k'' implies a raised T, so the thermostat 'works' as intended. The effective range of the thermostat, presuming it is set to "room temperature" of 23°C (73°F), runs from 15°C to 29°C (59°F to 85°F).

You can build this "thermostat" in real life and use it to "control the temperature" of the room, even if you just craft it out of two pieces of cardboard. Assume you want a nice and warm room temperature of 300 K (about 27°C or 80°F). Rather than controlling the nature of the airflow into the lab (or convection heaters/coolers around it), or indeed having any effect on anything, it sets the definition of "1 kelvin" to a value between "each degree of freedom of every molecule has on average 1.418 x 10-23 J" and "each degree of freedom of every molecule has on average 1.351 x 10-23 J" that would correspond to the current warmth in the room being 300 K. With less energy needed for each kelvin, you have more of them. 

There have previously been control panels for properties of the universe in [[1620: Christmas Settings]] and [[1763: Catcalling]].

Because the Boltzmann constant is primarily concerned with the nature of temperature within a gas, the title text expresses concern that it might not only be applied to the air (hence the capital letters) in the room. Aside from the possibility that those responsible for the {{w|heating, ventilation, and air conditioning}} (HVAC) of the room could perhaps directly enhance or suppress the temperature in all the solids and liquids within the room, in unknown and not necessarily desirable ways, there may also be a secondary joke in which {{w|high voltage}} forms of {{w|alternating current}} (also referred to as HVAC) are influenced, in the related but distinct use of the measure for '{{w|Boltzmann constant#Thermal voltage|thermal voltage}}'.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[A black circular dial is shown with a white indicator line at the upper right. The label above the dial, enclosed in a rectangular box, says:]
:Local Boltzmann Constant
:[The two extremes of the dial are labeled as follows, the first value on the left and the second value on the right:]
:1.418×10-23 J/K
:1.351×10-23 J/K
:[The indicator line is pointing to a position on the dial somewhere around 1.375×10-23 J/K (between the 12th and 13th large ticks clockwise out of 19 total).]
:[Caption below the panel:]
:Physics Lab Thermostat

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Physics]]

2636: What If? 2 Countdown

2022-06-25T02:40:26Z

JimJJewett: simplify 777...

{{comic
| number = 2636
| date = June 22, 2022
| title = What If? 2 Countdown
| image = what_if_2_countdown.png
| titletext = If you don't end the 99 Bottles of Beer recursion at N=0 it just becomes The Other Song That Never Ends.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by FOUR SCORE AND 7 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
This comic takes the idea of {{w|advent calendar}}s to the extreme. It uses absurd and obscure ways to measure the amount of time until [[Randall]]'s new book [https://xkcd.com/whatif2 ''What if? 2''] is released, with esoteric units and esoteric numbers.

Some concepts that appear multiple times throughout the calendar are:

* '''{{w|SI prefixes}}''', which can be applied to the beginning of a unit's name to multiply or divide the unit by powers of 10 or 1,000. This is standard for units like meters and grams, but is rarely applied to measurements of time other than when a unit of less than one second is needed, most commonly in various fields of science and engineering such as physics and electronics.
* The '''{{w|Gettysburg Address}}''', a famous speech delivered by U.S. president Abraham Lincoln in 1863, where he began by referring to the signing of the Declaration of Independence taking place "four score and seven years ago". A score is a dated term for the number 20, so "four score and seven" is equivalent to 87.
* A '''dog year''' is traditionally considered to be one-seventh the length of a normal human year, since a dog's overall lifespan is roughly one-seventh of a typical human's. The comic applies this to other units of time, such as minutes and months, each of which is also one-seventh the length of the standard unit. The number 7 (traditionally a "lucky number") is also used in many of the numbers quoted in the calendar.
* Other comparative durations of time that are not normally or usefully applied to day-length multiples. At the top end, there is the age of the universe, at the other there is {{w|Planck units#Planck time|Planck-time}} – with entire durations of periods of human history and the time needed to watch popular TV/film franchises in-between – most of which require a non-trivial multiplier or divisor to bring them to the necessary scale required.
* A '''{{w|baker's dozen}}''' is 13, or one more than a normal dozen. Here, the "baker's" prefix can be applied to any unit by adding an extra one of its constituent parts, like an extra hour added to a day.
* '''{{w|Irrational numbers}}''' like {{w|pi}} (3.14159...), {{w|Euler's number}} or ''e'' (2.71828...), the {{w|golden ratio}} (1.61803...), and the {{w|square root of 2}} (1.41421...). These are all interesting numbers because of their mathematical properties, but very impractical to use as arbitrary measurements of time because they have an endless series of non-repeating decimal digits.
* The teenage dating game '''{{w|Seven minutes in heaven}}'''.
* Rotation and revolution periods of various planets and moons in the Solar System.

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! style="text-align:center;" | Days left !! Date !! Duration specified !! Duration in days !! Explanation
|-
| 83 || Jun 22 || πe millidecades || 82.03 days || π ≈ 3.14159, ''e'' ≈ 2.718, so πe is about 22.459. A millidecade is 1/1000 decade, or 1/100 year, or 3.652425 days. Multiplying these results in 82.03 days. This is a play on {{w|Euler's identity}}, eiπ=-1, but raising pi to the power of ''e'' instead.
|-
| 82 || Jun 23 || 7 megaseconds || 81.02 days || 7,000,000 seconds
|-
| 81 || Jun 24 || ''e'' lunar months || 80.27 days || A lunar month ≈ 29.53059 days, ''e'' ≈ 2.718
|-
| 80 || Jun 25 || 60 rotations of Foucault's pendulum in Paris || 79.67 days || {{w|Foucault's pendulum}} demonstrates Earth's revolution, with the one at the latitude of Paris completing a full rotation every 31.8 hours.
|-
| 79 || Jun 26 || 8 milligenerations || 78.89 days || A generation is in general 22-33 years, with a reasonable mid-point of 27; and 8 x 0.001 (milli) x 365.2425 (accounting for leap years) x 27 ≈ 78.89 days
|-
| 78 || Jun 27 || 777,777 dog minutes || 77.16 days || A popular myth is that dogs age 7 times faster than humans, so 1 dog minute equals 1/7 human minutes.
|-
| 77 || Jun 28 || 7! episodes of ''Jeopardy!'' (skipping ads) || 77+ days || 7! = 7x6x5x4x3x2x1 = 5040. The standard episode of ''Jeopardy'' is 22-26 minutes, skipping ads. At 22 minutes each, the total is 110,880 minutes, or exactly 77 days.
|-
| 76 || Jun 29 || 5,000 repeats of ''99 Bottles of Beer'' || 76.39 days || Each verse of {{w|99 Bottles of Beer}} is "''N'' bottles of beer on the wall, ''N'' bottles of beer. Take one down, pass it around, ''N-1'' bottles of beer on the wall." The entire song contains 99 verses. Randall apparently sings this rather slowly at around 72 bpm, taking about 13 seconds per verse.
|-
| 75 || Jun 30 || 5 baker's fortnights || 75 days || A {{w|baker's dozen}} is a dozen (12) plus 1 extra item. Randall has generalized this to adding 1 to any unit. A fortnight is 2 weeks, so a baker's fortnight is 15 days. 5x15 is 75 days.
|-
| 74 || Jul 1 || √2 dog years || 73.79 days || See day 78 (Jun 27)
|-
| 73 || Jul 2 || π millivics (1/1000th of Queen Victoria's reign) || 72.97 days || {{w|Queen Victoria}} ruled between 20 June 1837 and 22 January 1901 (23,226 days).
|-
| 72 || Jul 3 || 42 drives from NYC to LA (Google Maps estimate) || 71.75 days || According to Google Maps, the drive from New York City to Los Angeles via I-80 W (2789 miles or 4489 km) takes 41 hours.
|-
| 71 || Jul 4 || 1,000 viewings of ''Groundhog Day''|| 70.14 days || Using {{w|Groundhog Day (film)|Groundhog Day's}} 101-minute run time.
|-
| 70 || Jul 5 || 100,000 minutes || 69.44 days || 1,440 minutes per day
|-
| 69 || Jul 6 || 1/10th of Martian year || 68.70 Earth days || Martian sidereal and tropical years both round to 687.0 Earth days
|-
| 68 || Jul 7 || 1,234,567 sound-miles || 67.63 days || The speed of sound in air depends on the temperature. 15 °C or 59 °F gives the value 340 m/s and the travel time of 67.6349058 days.
|-
| 67 || Jul 8 || 2πe seconds || 66.74 days || 2^(π^e) = 5,766,073 seconds
|-
| 66 || Jul 9 || 216 beats (Swatch Internet Time) || 65.54 days || A "{{w|.beat}}" is equal to 1/1000 day.
|-
| 65 || Jul 10 || 1,000 ISS orbits || 64.58 days || Each orbit of the ISS takes 90-93 minutes. Here a value of 93 minutes is used.
|-
| 64 || Jul 11 || 🎵🎶🎵 Five hundred twenty five thousand (base seven) minutes|| 62.88 days || This refers to {{w|radix}}-7 arithmetic: 525,0007 minutes = 90,55210 minutes. Also references the opening and recurring line "Five hundred twenty five thousand six hundred minutes" from {{w|Seasons of Love}}, a song from the musical {{w|Rent (musical)|''Rent''}}, which is also referenced in [[1047: Approximations]]. "Base seven" has the same rhythm as "six hundred".
|-
| 63 || Jul 12 || 1050 Planck times || 62.38 days || 10^50 x 5.39 x 10^-44 seconds
|-
| 62 || Jul 13 || 4,000 episodes of ''The Office'' (skipping ads)|| 62.50 days || {{w|The Office (British TV series)|''The Office''}} was originally a {{w|BBC}} television show which had no commercial breaks, so Randall must be referring to the later {{w|The Office (American TV series)|US version}}. This US "half-hour" comedy format contains 22.5 minutes of content (including the title sequence) and 7.5 minutes of ads. There are only 201 distinct episodes of the US version, so watching 4,000 episodes would require a lot of re-watching. 
|-
| 61 || Jul 14 || Four score and seven kilominutes || 60.42 days || 87 x 1000 minutes
|-
| 60 || Jul 15 || 2 lunar months || 59.06 days || There are a number of different ways to define the {{w|lunar month}}. The most common is the synodic month, because it relates to the phases of the moon, and it's approximately 29.53 days.
|-
| 59 || Jul 16 || Half a day on Venus || 58.38 Earth days || A Venus synodic day is 116 days 18 hours.
|-
| 58 || Jul 17 || 5 megaseconds || 57.87 days || 5,000,000 seconds
|-
| 57 || Jul 18 || 30 microLits (1/1,000,000th of the time since the invention of literature) || 57.21 days || 5222 years × 30 × 10-6. 3200 BCE is the approximate date of pre-Sumerian proto-writing as given in {{w|History of writing|Wikipedia's article on the history of writing}}.
|-
| 56 || Jul 19 || 1,000 viewings of ''Run Lola Run'' || 55.57 days || Using {{w|Run Lola Run|the movie's}} run time of 80 minutes.
|-
| 55 || Jul 20 || One million sound-miles || 54.78 days || The speed of sound in air depends on the temperature. 15 °C or 59 °F gives the value 340 m/s and the travel time of 54.7843137 days.
|-
| 54 || Jul 21 || 30 Ionian months || 53.07 Earth days || Orbital period of Io around Jupiter is approximately 1.77 days.
|-
| 53 || Jul 22 || One dog year || 52.18 days || See day 78 (Jun 27)
|-
| 52 || Jul 23 || 60 viewings of ''Star Wars Episodes I-IX'' || 51.75 days || According to [https://dorksideoftheforce.com/2021/05/04/how-long-to-watch-every-star-wars-movie/ Fansided] the combined running times are 20 hours 42 minutes.
|-
| 51 || Jul 24 || 1/100,000,000,000th of the universe's age || 50.40 days || The universe is estimated to be about 13.8 billion years old.
|-
| 50 || Jul 25 || 5 milli-generations || 49.3 days || See day 79 (Jun 26)
|-
| 49 || Jul 26 || 10,000 games of ''7 minutes in Heaven'' or 7 games of ''10,000 minutes in Heaven'' || 48.61 days || {{w|Seven minutes in heaven}} is an Anglo-culture teenager game, occuring in several movies. 10,000 minutes in Heaven is almost a week of making out (or doing whatever in a broom closet), so this game is unlikely.{{citation needed}}
|-
| 48 || Jul 27 || φeπ minutes || 47.62 days || 68,567.57 minutes
|-
| 47 || Jul 28 || 4 megaseconds || 46.30 days || 4,000,000 seconds
|-
| 46 || Jul 29 || 216 minutes || 45.51 days || 65,536 minutes
|-
| 45 || Jul 30 || eee seconds || 44.15 days || 3,814,279.10 seconds
|-
| 44 || Jul 31 || π fortnights|| 43.98 days || 3.14159 x 14 days
|-
| 43 || Aug 1 || One devil's spacewalk (666 orbits of the ISS) || 43.01 days || See day 65 (Jul 10). 666 is the {{w|number of the beast}}.
|-
| 42 || Aug 2 || 1 kilowatt-hour per watt || 41.66 days || 1000 hours
|-
| 41 || Aug 3 || eπ Ionian months || 40.94 Earth days || Orbital period of Io around Jupiter is 1.769137786 days
|-
| 40 || Aug 4 || 30 rotations of Foucault's pendulum in Paris || 39.84 days || Refer to Day 80 (Jun 25)
|-
| 39 || Aug 5 || ''e'' fortnights || 38.06 days ||2.71828 x 14 days
|-
| 38 || Aug 6 || πe baker's days (25 hours) || 37.98 days || See day 75 (Jun 30)
|-
| 37 || Aug 7 || One deciyear || 36.52 days || One tenth of one year
|-
| 36 || Aug 8 || 7! milliweeks || 35.28 days || 5040 × 0.001 weeks
|-
| 35 || Aug 9 || 100,000 plays of the ''Jeopardy!'' "Think" music || 34.72 days || ''Think'' is the music played while the contestants try to answer the Final Jeopardy question; it is 30 seconds long.
|-
| 34 || Aug 10 || 1000 basketball games (game time) || 33.33 days || Uses the NBA game time of four 12-minute quarters, or 48 minutes
|-
| 33 || Aug 11 || 777 hours || 32.38 days || 24 hours per day
|-
| 32 || Aug 12 || One millilincoln (1/1000 of fourscore and seven years) || 31.78 days || {{w|Abraham Lincoln}}'s {{w|Gettysburg Address}} begins with the famous phrase "Four score and seven years ago". 1 score = twenty. 
|-
| 31 || Aug 13 || 1,000 episodes of ''60 Minutes'' (skipping ads) || 31.25 days || Uses a television 'hour' containing 45 minutes of content and 15 minutes of ads
|-
| 30 || Aug 14 || All of ''Star Trek'', consecutively || 27.16* days || As per [https://redshirtsalwaysdie.com/2021/01/22/take-far-longer-watch-star-trek-think/ RedShirtsAlwaysDie.com] of January 22, 2021. *Note well: dozens of additional ''Star Trek'' franchise episodes have been produced since, and more are presently scheduled to be released through June, July, and August, so this value is somewhat indeterminate over the scope of the countdown.
|-
| 29 || Aug 15 || 777,777 nanocenturies || 28.41 days || 777,777 × 10-9 × 100 years. So 777,777 × 10-7, which uses 7 '7' characters.
|-
| 28 || Aug 16 || One sidereal lunar month || 27.3 days || The time it takes moon to return to the same position relative to the fixed stars
|-
| 27 || Aug 17 || 6 dog months || 26.1 days || See day 78 (Jun 27)
|-
| 26 || Aug 18 || ππ kilominutes || 25.32 days || 36,462.16 minutes
|-
| 25 || Aug 19 || 7 games of 7! minutes in Heaven || 24.5 days || 7 x 5040 (7 {{w|Factorial}}) minutes. See also day 49 (Jul 26).
|-
| 24 || Aug 20 || 50 viewings of the extended ''Lord of the Rings'' trilogy || 23.82 days || ''The Fellowship of the Ring'' extended version is 208 minutes, ''The Two Towers'' is 226 minutes, and ''The Return of the King'' is 252 minutes for its e.v., according to [https://fictionhorizon.com/how-long-are-all-the-lord-of-the-rings-and-the-hobbit-movies-combined/ FictionHorizon.com]
|-
| 23 || Aug 21 || A drive from NYC to LA where you keep remembering new things you forgot and have to go back 6 times || 22.21 days || See day 72 (Jul 3). This is for 6 round-trips and 1 one-way trip.
|-
| 22 || style="white-space:nowrap;" | Aug 22 || ''It's a Small World'' sung at 1/10,000th speed || 21.18 days || {{w|It's a Small World}} is a song that was composed for the attraction of the same name at various {{w|Disney}} theme parks, and plays continuously at them in various languages. The song lasts 12–15 minutes, depending on the language.
|-
| 21 || Aug 23 || 500 hours || 20.83 days || 24 hours per day
|-
| 20 || Aug 24 || √2 fortnights || 19.80 days || 1.4142 × 14 days
|-
| 19 || Aug 25 || Time it would take Vanessa Carlton to walk 1,000 miles || 18.94 days || {{w|Vanessa Carlton}} is an American singer, and {{w|A Thousand Miles}} is her most successful song. Randall estimates her walking speed at about 2.2 miles/hour.
|-
| 18 || Aug 26 || 100,000 breaths || 15 seconds per breath for 17 days* || The normal respiratory rate for adults is *typically 12-20 breaths per minute, or about 3-4 seconds each. Randall may be a practitioner of "[https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2018.00353/full slow breathing.]"
|-
| 17 || Aug 27 || √2 megaseconds || 16.37 days || 1.4142 × 1,000,000 seconds
|-
| 16 || Aug 28 || πππ πcoseconds || 15.51 days || 1.3402 × 1018 picoseconds (i.e., 10-12 seconds), making a joke how the mathematical "pi" is written with the character "π"
|-
| 15 || Aug 29 || One baker's fortnight (15 days) || 15 days || See day 75 (Jun 30)
|-
| 14 || Aug 30 || One baker's dozen (13) baker's days (25 hours) || 13.54 days || 325 hours; see day 75 (Jun 30)
|-
| 13 || Aug 31 || 300 hours || 12.5 days || 0.041678 days per hour
|-
| 12 || Sep 1 || One million seconds || 11.57 days || 86,400 seconds per day
|-
| 11 || Sep 2 || One nonstop bike ride from NYC to LA || 10.54 days || Google maps estimates the trip at 253 hours
|-
| 10 || Sep 3 || 1⁄1,000th of a generation || 9.86 days || See day 79 (Jun 26)
|-
| 9 || Sep 4 || 777,777 seconds || 9.002 days || 1.15741×10-5 days per second
|-
| 8 || Sep 5 || 100 viewings of ''Groundhog Day'' || 7.01 days || See Day 71 (Jul 4).
|-
| 7 || Sep 6 || 100 games of ''Lincoln Kissing'' (Fourscore and seven minutes in Heaven) || 6.04 days || 8,700 minutes
|-
| 6 || Sep 7 || One pico-universe-lifetime || 5.04 days || See Day 51 (Jul 24)
|-
| 5 || Sep 8 || The ''Baby Shark'' chorus for a family of 50,000 sharks || 4.63 days || The chorus lasts about 8 seconds per 'person'
|-
| 4 || Sep 9 || One centiyear || 3.65 days || 365.24 days/100
|-
| 3 || Sep 10 || Cyndi Lauper's ''Time After Time'' played 1,000 times || 2.79 days || Based on a length of 4 minutes, 1 second
|-
| 2 || Sep 11 || ''Speed'' (1994) played at one frame per second || 1.9 days || {{w|Speed (1994 film)}} has runtime of 116 minutes = 6,960 seconds = 167,040 film frames at standard frame rate of 24 frames/second
|-
| 1 || Sep 12 || F(99) where F(N) means sing all the verses of ''N Bottles of Beer On the wall'' followed by F(N-1) || 0.76 days || Each iteration contains ''N'' verses. ''N + N-1 + N-2 ... + 1'' equals ''N * (N+1) / 2'', so 99 recursions = 4950 verses. Using the same 13-second (72 bpm) rate as Jun 29, this is close to 18 hours. Probably refers to Donald Knuth's article {{w|The Complexity of Songs}}.
|-
| 0 || Sep 13 || ''What If? 2'' release day || N/A ||
|}

The title text refers to the recursive time period on Sep 12. If you don't stop when you reach N=0 bottles, the repetition never ends, so that time interval becomes infinite. He likens it to {{w|The Song That Never Ends}}, another repetitive children's song, which is specifically intended to go on forever. The difference is that the Beer song has a natural stopping point at 0, while ''The Song That Never Ends'' is completely repetitive.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

Large heading: Countdown to ''What if? 2''

Subheading: (Preorder at [https://xkcd.com/whatif2 xkcd.com/whatif2] to get it at the end of the countdown)

Remainder of comic is a calendar with the date in one corner of each day's box.

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Date !! Description
|-
| Jun 22 || πe millidecades
|-
| Jun 23 || 7 megaseconds
|-
| Jun 24 || e lunar months
|-
| Jun 25 || 60 rotations of Foucault's pendulum in Paris
|-
| Jun 26 || 8 milligenerations
|-
| Jun 27 || 777,777 dog minutes
|-
| Jun 28 || 7! episodes of ''Jeopardy!'' (skipping ads)
|-
| Jun 29 || 5,000 repeats of ''99 Bottles of Beer''
|-
| Jun 30 || 5 baker's fortnights (15 days)
|-
| Jul 1 || √2 dog years
|-
| Jul 2 || π millivics (1/1000th of Queen Victoria's reign)
|-
| Jul 3 || 42 drives from NYC to LA (Google Maps estimate)
|-
| Jul 4 || 1,000 viewings of ''Groundhog Day''
|-
| Jul 5 || 100,000 minutes
|-
| Jul 6 || 1/10th of Martian year
|-
| Jul 7 || 1,234,567 sound-miles
|-
| Jul 8 || 2πe seconds
|-
| Jul 9 || 216 beats (Swatch Internet Time)
|-
| Jul 10 || 1,000 ISS orbits
|-
| Jul 11 || 🎵🎶🎵 Five hundred twenty five thousand (base seven) minutes
|-
| Jul 12 || 1050 Planck times
|-
| Jul 13 || 4,000 episodes of ''The Office'' (skipping ads)
|-
| Jul 14 || Four score and seven kilominutes
|-
| Jul 15 || 2 lunar months
|-
| Jul 16 || Half a day on Venus
|-
| Jul 17 || 5 megaseconds
|-
| Jul 18 || 30 microLits (1/1,000,000th of the time since the invention of literature)
|-
| Jul 19 || 1,000 viewings of ''Run Lola Run''
|-
| Jul 20 || One million sound-miles
|-
| Jul 21 || 30 Ionian months
|-
| Jul 22 || One dog year
|-
| Jul 23 || 60 viewings of ''Star Wars Episodes I-IX''
|-
| Jul 24 || 1/100,000,000,000th of the universe's age
|-
| Jul 25 || 5 milli-generations
|-
| Jul 26 || 10,000 games of ''7 minutes in Heaven'' or 7 games of ''10,000 minutes in Heaven''
|-
| Jul 27 || φeπ minutes
|-
| Jul 28 || 4 megaseconds
|-
| Jul 29 || 216 minutes
|-
| Jul 30 || eee seconds
|-
| Jul 31 || π fortnights
|-
| Aug 1 || one devil's spacewalk (666 orbits of the ISS)
|-
| Aug 2 || 1 kilowatt-hour per watt
|-
| Aug 3 || eπ Ionian months
|-
| Aug 4 || 30 rotations of Foucault's pendulum in Paris
|-
| Aug 5 || e fortnights
|-
| Aug 6 || πe baker's days (25 hours)
|-
| Aug 7 || one deciyear
|-
| Aug 8 || 7! milliweeks
|-
| Aug 9 || 100,000 plays of the ''Jeopardy!'' "Think" music
|-
| Aug 10 || 1000 basketball games (game time)
|-
| Aug 11 || 777 hours
|-
| Aug 12 || one millilincoln (1/1000 of fourscore and seven years)
|-
| Aug 13 || 1,000 episodes of ''60 Minutes'' (skipping ads)
|-
| Aug 14 || All of ''Star Trek'', consecutively
|-
| Aug 15 || 777,777 nanocenturies
|-
| Aug 16 || one sidereal lunar month
|-
| Aug 17 || 6 dog months
|-
| Aug 18 || ππ kilominutes
|-
| Aug 19 || 7 games of ''7! minutes in Heaven''
|-
| Aug 20 || 50 viewings of the extended ''Lord of the Rings'' trilogy
|-
| Aug 21 || A drive from NYC to LA where you keep remembering new things you forgot and have to go back 6 times
|-
| Aug 22 || ''It's a Small World'' sung at 1/10,000th speed
|-
| Aug 23 || 500 hours
|-
| Aug 24 || √2 fortnights
|-
| Aug 25 || Time it would take Vanessa Carlton to walk 1,000 miles
|-
| Aug 26 || 100,000 breaths
|-
| Aug 27 || √2 megaseconds
|-
| Aug 28 || πππ πcoseconds
|-
| Aug 29 || One baker's fortnight (15 days)
|-
| Aug 30 || One baker's dozen (13) baker's days (25 hours)
|-
| Aug 31 || 300 hours
|-
| Sep 1 || One million seconds
|-
| Sep 2 || One nonstop bike ride from NYC to LA
|-
| Sep 3 || 1⁄1,000th of a generation
|-
| Sep 4 || 777,777 seconds
|-
| Sep 5 || 100 viewings of ''Groundhog Day''
|-
| Sep 6 || 100 games of ''Lincoln Kissing'' (Fourscore and seven minutes in Heaven)
|-
| Sep 7 || One pico-universe-lifetime
|-
| Sep 8 || The ''Baby Shark'' chorus for a family of 50,000 sharks
|-
| Sep 9 || One centiyear
|-
| Sep 10 || Cyndi Lauper's ''Time After Time'' played 1,000 times
|-
| Sep 11 || ''Speed'' (1994) played at one frame per second
|-
| Sep 12 || F(99) where F(N) means sing all the verses of ''N Bottles of Beer On the wall'' followed by F(N-1)
|-
| Sep 13 || ''What If? 2'' release day
|}
{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Book promotion]]
[[Category:Comics featuring real people]]
[[Category:Songs]]
[[Category:Animals]]

2399: 2020 Election Map

2020-12-17T18:32:16Z

JimJJewett: /* Explanation */ Michigan rounding

{{comic
| number = 2399
| date = December 16, 2020
| title = 2020 Election Map
| image = 2020_election_map.png
| titletext = There are more Trump voters in California than Texas, more Biden voters in Texas than New York, more Trump voters in New York than Ohio, more Biden voters in Ohio than Massachusetts, more Trump voters in Massachusetts than Mississippi, and more Biden voters in Mississippi than Vermont.
}}

*A [https://xkcd.com/2399/large/ larger version] of this image can be found by clicking the image at xkcd.com - the comic's page can also be accessed by clicking on the comic number above.

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a BIDEN VOTER IN OHIO. Please mention here why this explanation isn't complete. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
This is a sequel to an earlier comic, [[1939: 2016 Election Map]]. The United States elects its president not directly by popular vote but by an Electoral College composed of a number of electors, partially proportional to population, from each state. Presently, a "winner-take-all" system is used in most states: the winner of the popular vote in each state receives all of the electoral votes for that state. Though, strictly speaking, the electors are not required to cast their ballots according to this system, many states impose penalties on them if they don't. Technically, the popular vote in each state is to elect a slate of electors who in turn elect the President.

Many electoral results map color the states a solid color, indicating which state won the electoral votes, but this may not be representative of the population size of the state, or the number of voters. (The exceptions are the states of Maine and Nebraska, which award only 2 electoral votes to the statewide winner, and 1 to the winner of each congressional district. For example, while Biden won Maine statewide, he only got 3 out of its 4 electoral votes, as Trump got more votes in the 2nd district.)

Randall has also made some attempt to distribute the Cueball icons within a state in a manner similar to how the actual votes were distributed, but this is subject to even more difficulties than "while keeping national totals correct". For example, Michigan's Upper Peninsula has 3% of the Michigan's population, which isn't enough for a Cueball, so it is drawn empty. On the other hand, Western Massachusetts is drawn crowded because the entire area of Massachusetts is needed to fit enough Cueballs on the map. Similarly, Michigan should have had a 10th (or even 11th) red Cueball, and didn't have nearly enough "other" voters for a green Cueball, but the Green Cueballs have to be allocated *somewhere*, and Michigan is big enough to be less unreasonable than Wyoming.

Other maps used to demonstrate that "corn doesn't vote, people vote" (or similar rebuttals, referring to non-voting 'open space') include maps distorting the otherwise recognisable geography to make areas strictly proportional to the populations (or registered voters, actual voters or majority gap) within them. As an example, Los Angeles County, alone, is more populous than each of the states except for the nine most populous (even if you deprived California of it, for the duration) - or all of the ten least populous (plus DC) added together. Alaska, the largest state but with one of the fewest inhabitants, could be split and yet both halves each still cover more land area than Texas (and potentially both Alaskas now ranked firmly at the bottom of the population table).

Another mapping solution used by commentators was to use coloured circles sized to represent the quantities of voters (or majorities) that do something very similar to Randall's map by showing vast areas with small and sparse splotches of hue and other areas packed tightly with the local 'flavour' of votes.

The title text compares different voter pools in terms of absolute size. Unexpected truths - e.g., "There are more Trump voters in California than Texas" - can be explained by differences in population size. California (which was won by Biden) has a larger population than Texas (which was won by Trump), which has a higher population than New York (won by Biden), and so on. For example, Trump received over 6 million votes in California (though Biden received 11 million votes in winning the state) compared to 5.9 million votes received by Trump in Texas.

{| class="wikitable"
!|
!colspan="2"|Biden/Harris
!colspan="2"|Trump/Pence
!rowspan="2"|Total
Votes
|-
!|State
!|Votes
!|Perc
!|Votes
!|Perc
|-
|California
|style="text-align: right;"|11,110,250
|style="text-align: right;"|63.48%
|style="text-align: right;"|6,006,429
|style="text-align: right;"|34.32%
|style="text-align: right;"|17,500,881
|-
|Texas
|style="text-align: right;"|5,259,126
|style="text-align: right;"|46.48%
|style="text-align: right;"|5,890,347
|style="text-align: right;"|52.06%
|style="text-align: right;"|11,315,056
|-
|New York
|style="text-align: right;"|5,230,985
|style="text-align: right;"|60.86%
|style="text-align: right;"|3,244,798
|style="text-align: right;"|37.75%
|style="text-align: right;"|8,594,826
|-
|Ohio
|style="text-align: right;"|2,679,165
|style="text-align: right;"|45.24%
|style="text-align: right;"|3,154,834
|style="text-align: right;"|53.27%
|style="text-align: right;"|5,922,202
|-
|Massachusetts
|style="text-align: right;"|2,382,202
|style="text-align: right;"|65.60%
|style="text-align: right;"|1,167,202
|style="text-align: right;"|32.14%
|style="text-align: right;"|3,631,402
|-
|Mississippi
|style="text-align: right;"|539,508
|style="text-align: right;"|41.06%
|style="text-align: right;"|756,789
|style="text-align: right;"|57.60%
|style="text-align: right;"|1,313,894
|-
|Vermont
|style="text-align: right;"|242,820
|style="text-align: right;"|66.09%
|style="text-align: right;"|112,704
|style="text-align: right;"|30.67%
|style="text-align: right;"|367,428
|}
{{w|2020_United_States_presidential_election#Results_by_state|Source}}

The following table lists the number of 250,000-vote markers in the map by candidate and state, and compares this with the actual number of votes. {{w|2020_United_States_presidential_election#Results_by_state|Source}}
{| class="wikitable"
!|
!colspan="3"|Biden/Harris
!colspan="3"|Trump/Pence
!colspan="3"|Others
!colspan="3"|Total
|-
!|State
!|Markers
!|Votes
!|Actual votes
!|Markers
!|Votes
!|Actual votes
!|Markers
!|Votes
!|Actual votes
!|Markers
!|Votes
!|Actual votes
|-
|Alabama (AL)
|style="text-align: right;"|3
|style="text-align: right;"|750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|849,624
|style="text-align: right;"|6
|style="text-align: right;"|1,500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,441,170
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|32,488
|style="text-align: right;"|9
|style="text-align: right;"|2,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|2,323,282
|-
|Alaska (AK)
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|153,778
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|189,951
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|15,801
|style="text-align: right;"|2
|style="text-align: right;"|500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|359,530
|-
|Arizona (AZ)
|style="text-align: right;"|7
|style="text-align: right;"|1,750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,672,143
|style="text-align: right;"|7
|style="text-align: right;"|1,750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,661,686
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|53,497
|style="text-align: right;"|14
|style="text-align: right;"|3,500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|3,387,326
|-
|Arkansas (AR)
|style="text-align: right;"|2
|style="text-align: right;"|500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|423,932
|style="text-align: right;"|3
|style="text-align: right;"|750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|760,647
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|34490
|style="text-align: right;"|5
|style="text-align: right;"|1,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,219,069
|-
|California (CA)
|style="text-align: right;"|44
|style="text-align: right;"|11,000,000
|style="text-align: right;"|11,110,250
|style="text-align: right;"|24
|style="text-align: right;"|6,006,429
|style="text-align: right;"|6,000,000
|style="text-align: right;"|2
|style="text-align: right;"|500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|384,202
|style="text-align: right;"|70
|style="text-align: right;"|17,500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|17,500,881
|-
|Colorado (CO)
|style="text-align: right;"|7
|style="text-align: right;"|1,750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,804,352
|style="text-align: right;"|5
|style="text-align: right;"|1,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,364,607
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|88,021
|style="text-align: right;"|13
|style="text-align: right;"|3,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|3,256,980
|-
|Connecticut (CT)
|style="text-align: right;"|4.5
|style="text-align: right;"|1,125,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,080,680
|style="text-align: right;"|3
|style="text-align: right;"|750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|715,291
|style="text-align: right;"|0.5
|style="text-align: right;"|125,000
|style="text-align: right;"|28,309
|style="text-align: right;"|8
|style="text-align: right;"|2,000,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,824,280
|-
|Delaware (DE)
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|296,268
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|200,603
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|7,475
|style="text-align: right;"|2
|style="text-align: right;"|500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|504,346
|-
|District of Columbia (DC)
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|317,323
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|18,586
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|8,447
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|344,356
|-
|Florida (FL)
|style="text-align: right;"|21
|style="text-align: right;"|5,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|5,297,045
|style="text-align: right;"|23
|style="text-align: right;"|5,750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|5,668,731
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|101,680
|style="text-align: right;"|45
|style="text-align: right;"|11,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|11,067,456
|-
|Georgia (GA)
|style="text-align: right;"|10
|style="text-align: right;"|2,500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|2,473,633
|style="text-align: right;"|10
|style="text-align: right;"|2,500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|2,461,854
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|62,229
|style="text-align: right;"|20
|style="text-align: right;"|5,000,000
|style="text-align: right;"|4,997,716
|-
|Hawaii (HI)
|style="text-align: right;"|2
|style="text-align: right;"|500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|366,130
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|196,864
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|11,475
|style="text-align: right;"|3
|style="text-align: right;"|750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|574,469
|-
|Idaho (ID)
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|287,021
|style="text-align: right;"|2
|style="text-align: right;"|500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|554,119
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|26,874
|style="text-align: right;"|3
|style="text-align: right;"|750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|868,014
|-
|Illinois (IL)
|style="text-align: right;"|14
|style="text-align: right;"|3,500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|3,471,915
|style="text-align: right;"|10
|style="text-align: right;"|2,500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|2,446,891
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|114,938
|style="text-align: right;"|25
|style="text-align: right;"|6,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|6,033,744
|-
|Indiana (IN)
|style="text-align: right;"|5
|style="text-align: right;"|1,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,242,416
|style="text-align: right;"|7
|style="text-align: right;"|1,750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,729,519
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|61,183
|style="text-align: right;"|12
|style="text-align: right;"|3,000,000
|style="text-align: right;"|3,033,118
|-
|Iowa (IA)
|style="text-align: right;"|3
|style="text-align: right;"|750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|759,061
|style="text-align: right;"|4
|style="text-align: right;"|1,000,000
|style="text-align: right;"|897,672
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|34,138
|style="text-align: right;"|7
|style="text-align: right;"|1,750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,690,871
|-
|Kansas (KS)
|style="text-align: right;"|2
|style="text-align: right;"|500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|570,323
|style="text-align: right;"|3
|style="text-align: right;"|750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|771,406
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|30,574
|style="text-align: right;"|5
|style="text-align: right;"|1,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,372,303
|-
|Kentucky (KY)
|style="text-align: right;"|3
|style="text-align: right;"|750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|772,474
|style="text-align: right;"|6
|style="text-align: right;"|1,500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,326,646
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|37,648
|style="text-align: right;"|9
|style="text-align: right;"|2,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|2,136,768
|-
|Louisiana (LA)
|style="text-align: right;"|4
|style="text-align: right;"|1,000,000
|style="text-align: right;"|856,034
|style="text-align: right;"|5
|style="text-align: right;"|1,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,255,776
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|36,252
|style="text-align: right;"|9
|style="text-align: right;"|2,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|2,148,062
|-
|Maine (ME)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Maryland (MD)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Massachusetts (MA)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Michigan (MI)
|style="text-align: right;"|11
|style="text-align: right;"|2,750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|2,804,040
|style="text-align: right;"|9
|style="text-align: right;"|2,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|2,649,852
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|85,410
|style="text-align: right;"|21
|style="text-align: right;"|5,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|5,539,302
|-
|Minnesota (MN)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Mississippi (MS)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Missouri (MO)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Montana (MT)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Nebraska (NE)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Nevada (NV)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|New Hampshire (NH)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|New Jersey (NJ)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|New Mexico (NM)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|New York (NY)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|North Carolina (NC)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|North Dakota (ND)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Ohio (OH)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Oklahoma (OK)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Oregon (OR)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Pennsylvania (PA)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Rhode Island (RI)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|South Carolina (SC)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|South Dakota (SD)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Tennessee (TN)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Texas (TX)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Utah (UT)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Vermont (VT)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Virginia (VA)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Washington (WA)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|West Virginia (WV)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Wisconsin (WI)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Wyoming (WY)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Total
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|}

==Transcript==

:2020 Election Map
:[One stick figure in a black circle] = 250,000 votes
:[Stick figure in a blue circle] Biden
:[Stick figure in a red circle] Trump
:[Stick figure in a green circle] Other
:Votes are distributed by state as accurately as possible while keeping national totals correct.
:Location within each state is approximate.
:[Blue, red, and green circles are distributed across a map of the United States.]

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Politics]]
[[Category:Elections]]
[[Category:Comics with color]]
[[Category:Large drawings]]
[[Category:Comics featuring politicians]]
[[Category:Maps]]

2399: 2020 Election Map

2020-12-17T18:29:40Z

JimJJewett: /* Explanation */ Michigan UP clarification

{{comic
| number = 2399
| date = December 16, 2020
| title = 2020 Election Map
| image = 2020_election_map.png
| titletext = There are more Trump voters in California than Texas, more Biden voters in Texas than New York, more Trump voters in New York than Ohio, more Biden voters in Ohio than Massachusetts, more Trump voters in Massachusetts than Mississippi, and more Biden voters in Mississippi than Vermont.
}}

*A [https://xkcd.com/2399/large/ larger version] of this image can be found by clicking the image at xkcd.com - the comic's page can also be accessed by clicking on the comic number above.

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a BIDEN VOTER IN OHIO. Please mention here why this explanation isn't complete. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
This is a sequel to an earlier comic, [[1939: 2016 Election Map]]. The United States elects its president not directly by popular vote but by an Electoral College composed of a number of electors, partially proportional to population, from each state. Presently, a "winner-take-all" system is used in most states: the winner of the popular vote in each state receives all of the electoral votes for that state. Though, strictly speaking, the electors are not required to cast their ballots according to this system, many states impose penalties on them if they don't. Technically, the popular vote in each state is to elect a slate of electors who in turn elect the President.

Many electoral results map color the states a solid color, indicating which state won the electoral votes, but this may not be representative of the population size of the state, or the number of voters. (The exceptions are the states of Maine and Nebraska, which award only 2 electoral votes to the statewide winner, and 1 to the winner of each congressional district. For example, while Biden won Maine statewide, he only got 3 out of its 4 electoral votes, as Trump got more votes in the 2nd district.)

Randall has also made some attempt to distribute the Cueball icons within a state in a manner similar to how the actual votes were distributed, but this is subject to even more difficulties than "while keeping national totals correct". For example, Michigan's Upper Peninsula has 3% of the Michigan's population, which isn't enough for a Cueball, so it is drawn empty. On the other hand, Western Massachusetts is drawn crowded because the entire area of Massachusetts is needed to fit enough Cueballs on the map. Similarly, Michigan should have had a 10th red Cueball, and didn't have nearly enough "other" voters for a green Cueball, but the Green Cueballs have to be allocated *somewhere*, and Michigan is big enough to be less unreasonable than Wyoming.

Other maps used to demonstrate that "corn doesn't vote, people vote" (or similar rebuttals, referring to non-voting 'open space') include maps distorting the otherwise recognisable geography to make areas strictly proportional to the populations (or registered voters, actual voters or majority gap) within them. As an example, Los Angeles County, alone, is more populous than each of the states except for the nine most populous (even if you deprived California of it, for the duration) - or all of the ten least populous (plus DC) added together. Alaska, the largest state but with one of the fewest inhabitants, could be split and yet both halves each still cover more land area than Texas (and potentially both Alaskas now ranked firmly at the bottom of the population table).

Another mapping solution used by commentators was to use coloured circles sized to represent the quantities of voters (or majorities) that do something very similar to Randall's map by showing vast areas with small and sparse splotches of hue and other areas packed tightly with the local 'flavour' of votes.

The title text compares different voter pools in terms of absolute size. Unexpected truths - e.g., "There are more Trump voters in California than Texas" - can be explained by differences in population size. California (which was won by Biden) has a larger population than Texas (which was won by Trump), which has a higher population than New York (won by Biden), and so on. For example, Trump received over 6 million votes in California (though Biden received 11 million votes in winning the state) compared to 5.9 million votes received by Trump in Texas.

{| class="wikitable"
!|
!colspan="2"|Biden/Harris
!colspan="2"|Trump/Pence
!rowspan="2"|Total
Votes
|-
!|State
!|Votes
!|Perc
!|Votes
!|Perc
|-
|California
|style="text-align: right;"|11,110,250
|style="text-align: right;"|63.48%
|style="text-align: right;"|6,006,429
|style="text-align: right;"|34.32%
|style="text-align: right;"|17,500,881
|-
|Texas
|style="text-align: right;"|5,259,126
|style="text-align: right;"|46.48%
|style="text-align: right;"|5,890,347
|style="text-align: right;"|52.06%
|style="text-align: right;"|11,315,056
|-
|New York
|style="text-align: right;"|5,230,985
|style="text-align: right;"|60.86%
|style="text-align: right;"|3,244,798
|style="text-align: right;"|37.75%
|style="text-align: right;"|8,594,826
|-
|Ohio
|style="text-align: right;"|2,679,165
|style="text-align: right;"|45.24%
|style="text-align: right;"|3,154,834
|style="text-align: right;"|53.27%
|style="text-align: right;"|5,922,202
|-
|Massachusetts
|style="text-align: right;"|2,382,202
|style="text-align: right;"|65.60%
|style="text-align: right;"|1,167,202
|style="text-align: right;"|32.14%
|style="text-align: right;"|3,631,402
|-
|Mississippi
|style="text-align: right;"|539,508
|style="text-align: right;"|41.06%
|style="text-align: right;"|756,789
|style="text-align: right;"|57.60%
|style="text-align: right;"|1,313,894
|-
|Vermont
|style="text-align: right;"|242,820
|style="text-align: right;"|66.09%
|style="text-align: right;"|112,704
|style="text-align: right;"|30.67%
|style="text-align: right;"|367,428
|}
{{w|2020_United_States_presidential_election#Results_by_state|Source}}

The following table lists the number of 250,000-vote markers in the map by candidate and state, and compares this with the actual number of votes. {{w|2020_United_States_presidential_election#Results_by_state|Source}}
{| class="wikitable"
!|
!colspan="3"|Biden/Harris
!colspan="3"|Trump/Pence
!colspan="3"|Others
!colspan="3"|Total
|-
!|State
!|Markers
!|Votes
!|Actual votes
!|Markers
!|Votes
!|Actual votes
!|Markers
!|Votes
!|Actual votes
!|Markers
!|Votes
!|Actual votes
|-
|Alabama (AL)
|style="text-align: right;"|3
|style="text-align: right;"|750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|849,624
|style="text-align: right;"|6
|style="text-align: right;"|1,500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,441,170
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|32,488
|style="text-align: right;"|9
|style="text-align: right;"|2,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|2,323,282
|-
|Alaska (AK)
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|153,778
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|189,951
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|15,801
|style="text-align: right;"|2
|style="text-align: right;"|500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|359,530
|-
|Arizona (AZ)
|style="text-align: right;"|7
|style="text-align: right;"|1,750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,672,143
|style="text-align: right;"|7
|style="text-align: right;"|1,750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,661,686
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|53,497
|style="text-align: right;"|14
|style="text-align: right;"|3,500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|3,387,326
|-
|Arkansas (AR)
|style="text-align: right;"|2
|style="text-align: right;"|500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|423,932
|style="text-align: right;"|3
|style="text-align: right;"|750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|760,647
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|34490
|style="text-align: right;"|5
|style="text-align: right;"|1,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,219,069
|-
|California (CA)
|style="text-align: right;"|44
|style="text-align: right;"|11,000,000
|style="text-align: right;"|11,110,250
|style="text-align: right;"|24
|style="text-align: right;"|6,006,429
|style="text-align: right;"|6,000,000
|style="text-align: right;"|2
|style="text-align: right;"|500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|384,202
|style="text-align: right;"|70
|style="text-align: right;"|17,500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|17,500,881
|-
|Colorado (CO)
|style="text-align: right;"|7
|style="text-align: right;"|1,750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,804,352
|style="text-align: right;"|5
|style="text-align: right;"|1,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,364,607
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|88,021
|style="text-align: right;"|13
|style="text-align: right;"|3,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|3,256,980
|-
|Connecticut (CT)
|style="text-align: right;"|4.5
|style="text-align: right;"|1,125,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,080,680
|style="text-align: right;"|3
|style="text-align: right;"|750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|715,291
|style="text-align: right;"|0.5
|style="text-align: right;"|125,000
|style="text-align: right;"|28,309
|style="text-align: right;"|8
|style="text-align: right;"|2,000,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,824,280
|-
|Delaware (DE)
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|296,268
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|200,603
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|7,475
|style="text-align: right;"|2
|style="text-align: right;"|500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|504,346
|-
|District of Columbia (DC)
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|317,323
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|18,586
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|8,447
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|344,356
|-
|Florida (FL)
|style="text-align: right;"|21
|style="text-align: right;"|5,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|5,297,045
|style="text-align: right;"|23
|style="text-align: right;"|5,750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|5,668,731
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|101,680
|style="text-align: right;"|45
|style="text-align: right;"|11,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|11,067,456
|-
|Georgia (GA)
|style="text-align: right;"|10
|style="text-align: right;"|2,500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|2,473,633
|style="text-align: right;"|10
|style="text-align: right;"|2,500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|2,461,854
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|62,229
|style="text-align: right;"|20
|style="text-align: right;"|5,000,000
|style="text-align: right;"|4,997,716
|-
|Hawaii (HI)
|style="text-align: right;"|2
|style="text-align: right;"|500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|366,130
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|196,864
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|11,475
|style="text-align: right;"|3
|style="text-align: right;"|750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|574,469
|-
|Idaho (ID)
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|287,021
|style="text-align: right;"|2
|style="text-align: right;"|500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|554,119
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|26,874
|style="text-align: right;"|3
|style="text-align: right;"|750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|868,014
|-
|Illinois (IL)
|style="text-align: right;"|14
|style="text-align: right;"|3,500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|3,471,915
|style="text-align: right;"|10
|style="text-align: right;"|2,500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|2,446,891
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|114,938
|style="text-align: right;"|25
|style="text-align: right;"|6,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|6,033,744
|-
|Indiana (IN)
|style="text-align: right;"|5
|style="text-align: right;"|1,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,242,416
|style="text-align: right;"|7
|style="text-align: right;"|1,750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,729,519
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|61,183
|style="text-align: right;"|12
|style="text-align: right;"|3,000,000
|style="text-align: right;"|3,033,118
|-
|Iowa (IA)
|style="text-align: right;"|3
|style="text-align: right;"|750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|759,061
|style="text-align: right;"|4
|style="text-align: right;"|1,000,000
|style="text-align: right;"|897,672
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|34,138
|style="text-align: right;"|7
|style="text-align: right;"|1,750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,690,871
|-
|Kansas (KS)
|style="text-align: right;"|2
|style="text-align: right;"|500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|570,323
|style="text-align: right;"|3
|style="text-align: right;"|750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|771,406
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|30,574
|style="text-align: right;"|5
|style="text-align: right;"|1,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,372,303
|-
|Kentucky (KY)
|style="text-align: right;"|3
|style="text-align: right;"|750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|772,474
|style="text-align: right;"|6
|style="text-align: right;"|1,500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,326,646
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|37,648
|style="text-align: right;"|9
|style="text-align: right;"|2,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|2,136,768
|-
|Louisiana (LA)
|style="text-align: right;"|4
|style="text-align: right;"|1,000,000
|style="text-align: right;"|856,034
|style="text-align: right;"|5
|style="text-align: right;"|1,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,255,776
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|36,252
|style="text-align: right;"|9
|style="text-align: right;"|2,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|2,148,062
|-
|Maine (ME)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Maryland (MD)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Massachusetts (MA)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Michigan (MI)
|style="text-align: right;"|11
|style="text-align: right;"|2,750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|2,804,040
|style="text-align: right;"|9
|style="text-align: right;"|2,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|2,649,852
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|85,410
|style="text-align: right;"|21
|style="text-align: right;"|5,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|5,539,302
|-
|Minnesota (MN)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Mississippi (MS)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Missouri (MO)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Montana (MT)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Nebraska (NE)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Nevada (NV)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|New Hampshire (NH)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|New Jersey (NJ)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|New Mexico (NM)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|New York (NY)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|North Carolina (NC)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|North Dakota (ND)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Ohio (OH)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Oklahoma (OK)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Oregon (OR)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Pennsylvania (PA)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Rhode Island (RI)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|South Carolina (SC)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|South Dakota (SD)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Tennessee (TN)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Texas (TX)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Utah (UT)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Vermont (VT)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Virginia (VA)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Washington (WA)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|West Virginia (WV)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Wisconsin (WI)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Wyoming (WY)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Total
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|}

==Transcript==

:2020 Election Map
:[One stick figure in a black circle] = 250,000 votes
:[Stick figure in a blue circle] Biden
:[Stick figure in a red circle] Trump
:[Stick figure in a green circle] Other
:Votes are distributed by state as accurately as possible while keeping national totals correct.
:Location within each state is approximate.
:[Blue, red, and green circles are distributed across a map of the United States.]

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Politics]]
[[Category:Elections]]
[[Category:Comics with color]]
[[Category:Large drawings]]
[[Category:Comics featuring politicians]]
[[Category:Maps]]

2399: 2020 Election Map

2020-12-17T18:23:49Z

JimJJewett: /* Explanation */ mention the within-state distribution

{{comic
| number = 2399
| date = December 16, 2020
| title = 2020 Election Map
| image = 2020_election_map.png
| titletext = There are more Trump voters in California than Texas, more Biden voters in Texas than New York, more Trump voters in New York than Ohio, more Biden voters in Ohio than Massachusetts, more Trump voters in Massachusetts than Mississippi, and more Biden voters in Mississippi than Vermont.
}}

*A [https://xkcd.com/2399/large/ larger version] of this image can be found by clicking the image at xkcd.com - the comic's page can also be accessed by clicking on the comic number above.

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a BIDEN VOTER IN OHIO. Please mention here why this explanation isn't complete. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
This is a sequel to an earlier comic, [[1939: 2016 Election Map]]. The United States elects its president not directly by popular vote but by an Electoral College composed of a number of electors, partially proportional to population, from each state. Presently, a "winner-take-all" system is used in most states: the winner of the popular vote in each state receives all of the electoral votes for that state. Though, strictly speaking, the electors are not required to cast their ballots according to this system, many states impose penalties on them if they don't. Technically, the popular vote in each state is to elect a slate of electors who in turn elect the President.

Many electoral results map color the states a solid color, indicating which state won the electoral votes, but this may not be representative of the population size of the state, or the number of voters. (The exceptions are the states of Maine and Nebraska, which award only 2 electoral votes to the statewide winner, and 1 to the winner of each congressional district. For example, while Biden won Maine statewide, he only got 3 out of its 4 electoral votes, as Trump got more votes in the 2nd district.)

Randall has also made some attempt to distribute the Cueball icons within a state in a manner similar to how the actual votes were distributed, but this is subject to even more difficulties than "while keeping national totals correct". For example, Michigan's Upper Peninsula has 3% of the Michigan's population, which isn't enough for a Cueball, but Western Massachusetts is full because the entire area of Massachusetts is needed to fit enough Cueballs on the map. Similarly, Michigan should have had a 10th red Cueball, and didn't have nearly enough "other" voters for a green Cueball, but the Green Cueballs have to be allocated *somewhere*, and Michigan is big enough to be less unreasonable than Wyoming.

Other maps used to demonstrate that "corn doesn't vote, people vote" (or similar rebuttals, referring to non-voting 'open space') include maps distorting the otherwise recognisable geography to make areas strictly proportional to the populations (or registered voters, actual voters or majority gap) within them. As an example, Los Angeles County, alone, is more populous than each of the states except for the nine most populous (even if you deprived California of it, for the duration) - or all of the ten least populous (plus DC) added together. Alaska, the largest state but with one of the fewest inhabitants, could be split and yet both halves each still cover more land area than Texas (and potentially both Alaskas now ranked firmly at the bottom of the population table).

Another mapping solution used by commentators was to use coloured circles sized to represent the quantities of voters (or majorities) that do something very similar to Randall's map by showing vast areas with small and sparse splotches of hue and other areas packed tightly with the local 'flavour' of votes.

The title text compares different voter pools in terms of absolute size. Unexpected truths - e.g., "There are more Trump voters in California than Texas" - can be explained by differences in population size. California (which was won by Biden) has a larger population than Texas (which was won by Trump), which has a higher population than New York (won by Biden), and so on. For example, Trump received over 6 million votes in California (though Biden received 11 million votes in winning the state) compared to 5.9 million votes received by Trump in Texas.

{| class="wikitable"
!|
!colspan="2"|Biden/Harris
!colspan="2"|Trump/Pence
!rowspan="2"|Total
Votes
|-
!|State
!|Votes
!|Perc
!|Votes
!|Perc
|-
|California
|style="text-align: right;"|11,110,250
|style="text-align: right;"|63.48%
|style="text-align: right;"|6,006,429
|style="text-align: right;"|34.32%
|style="text-align: right;"|17,500,881
|-
|Texas
|style="text-align: right;"|5,259,126
|style="text-align: right;"|46.48%
|style="text-align: right;"|5,890,347
|style="text-align: right;"|52.06%
|style="text-align: right;"|11,315,056
|-
|New York
|style="text-align: right;"|5,230,985
|style="text-align: right;"|60.86%
|style="text-align: right;"|3,244,798
|style="text-align: right;"|37.75%
|style="text-align: right;"|8,594,826
|-
|Ohio
|style="text-align: right;"|2,679,165
|style="text-align: right;"|45.24%
|style="text-align: right;"|3,154,834
|style="text-align: right;"|53.27%
|style="text-align: right;"|5,922,202
|-
|Massachusetts
|style="text-align: right;"|2,382,202
|style="text-align: right;"|65.60%
|style="text-align: right;"|1,167,202
|style="text-align: right;"|32.14%
|style="text-align: right;"|3,631,402
|-
|Mississippi
|style="text-align: right;"|539,508
|style="text-align: right;"|41.06%
|style="text-align: right;"|756,789
|style="text-align: right;"|57.60%
|style="text-align: right;"|1,313,894
|-
|Vermont
|style="text-align: right;"|242,820
|style="text-align: right;"|66.09%
|style="text-align: right;"|112,704
|style="text-align: right;"|30.67%
|style="text-align: right;"|367,428
|}
{{w|2020_United_States_presidential_election#Results_by_state|Source}}

The following table lists the number of 250,000-vote markers in the map by candidate and state, and compares this with the actual number of votes. {{w|2020_United_States_presidential_election#Results_by_state|Source}}
{| class="wikitable"
!|
!colspan="3"|Biden/Harris
!colspan="3"|Trump/Pence
!colspan="3"|Others
!colspan="3"|Total
|-
!|State
!|Markers
!|Votes
!|Actual votes
!|Markers
!|Votes
!|Actual votes
!|Markers
!|Votes
!|Actual votes
!|Markers
!|Votes
!|Actual votes
|-
|Alabama (AL)
|style="text-align: right;"|3
|style="text-align: right;"|750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|849,624
|style="text-align: right;"|6
|style="text-align: right;"|1,500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,441,170
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|32,488
|style="text-align: right;"|9
|style="text-align: right;"|2,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|2,323,282
|-
|Alaska (AK)
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|153,778
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|189,951
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|15,801
|style="text-align: right;"|2
|style="text-align: right;"|500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|359,530
|-
|Arizona (AZ)
|style="text-align: right;"|7
|style="text-align: right;"|1,750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,672,143
|style="text-align: right;"|7
|style="text-align: right;"|1,750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,661,686
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|53,497
|style="text-align: right;"|14
|style="text-align: right;"|3,500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|3,387,326
|-
|Arkansas (AR)
|style="text-align: right;"|2
|style="text-align: right;"|500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|423,932
|style="text-align: right;"|3
|style="text-align: right;"|750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|760,647
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|34490
|style="text-align: right;"|5
|style="text-align: right;"|1,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,219,069
|-
|California (CA)
|style="text-align: right;"|44
|style="text-align: right;"|11,000,000
|style="text-align: right;"|11,110,250
|style="text-align: right;"|24
|style="text-align: right;"|6,006,429
|style="text-align: right;"|6,000,000
|style="text-align: right;"|2
|style="text-align: right;"|500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|384,202
|style="text-align: right;"|70
|style="text-align: right;"|17,500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|17,500,881
|-
|Colorado (CO)
|style="text-align: right;"|7
|style="text-align: right;"|1,750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,804,352
|style="text-align: right;"|5
|style="text-align: right;"|1,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,364,607
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|88,021
|style="text-align: right;"|13
|style="text-align: right;"|3,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|3,256,980
|-
|Connecticut (CT)
|style="text-align: right;"|4.5
|style="text-align: right;"|1,125,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,080,680
|style="text-align: right;"|3
|style="text-align: right;"|750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|715,291
|style="text-align: right;"|0.5
|style="text-align: right;"|125,000
|style="text-align: right;"|28,309
|style="text-align: right;"|8
|style="text-align: right;"|2,000,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,824,280
|-
|Delaware (DE)
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|296,268
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|200,603
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|7,475
|style="text-align: right;"|2
|style="text-align: right;"|500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|504,346
|-
|District of Columbia (DC)
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|317,323
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|18,586
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|8,447
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|344,356
|-
|Florida (FL)
|style="text-align: right;"|21
|style="text-align: right;"|5,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|5,297,045
|style="text-align: right;"|23
|style="text-align: right;"|5,750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|5,668,731
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|101,680
|style="text-align: right;"|45
|style="text-align: right;"|11,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|11,067,456
|-
|Georgia (GA)
|style="text-align: right;"|10
|style="text-align: right;"|2,500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|2,473,633
|style="text-align: right;"|10
|style="text-align: right;"|2,500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|2,461,854
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|62,229
|style="text-align: right;"|20
|style="text-align: right;"|5,000,000
|style="text-align: right;"|4,997,716
|-
|Hawaii (HI)
|style="text-align: right;"|2
|style="text-align: right;"|500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|366,130
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|196,864
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|11,475
|style="text-align: right;"|3
|style="text-align: right;"|750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|574,469
|-
|Idaho (ID)
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|287,021
|style="text-align: right;"|2
|style="text-align: right;"|500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|554,119
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|26,874
|style="text-align: right;"|3
|style="text-align: right;"|750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|868,014
|-
|Illinois (IL)
|style="text-align: right;"|14
|style="text-align: right;"|3,500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|3,471,915
|style="text-align: right;"|10
|style="text-align: right;"|2,500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|2,446,891
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|114,938
|style="text-align: right;"|25
|style="text-align: right;"|6,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|6,033,744
|-
|Indiana (IN)
|style="text-align: right;"|5
|style="text-align: right;"|1,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,242,416
|style="text-align: right;"|7
|style="text-align: right;"|1,750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,729,519
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|61,183
|style="text-align: right;"|12
|style="text-align: right;"|3,000,000
|style="text-align: right;"|3,033,118
|-
|Iowa (IA)
|style="text-align: right;"|3
|style="text-align: right;"|750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|759,061
|style="text-align: right;"|4
|style="text-align: right;"|1,000,000
|style="text-align: right;"|897,672
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|34,138
|style="text-align: right;"|7
|style="text-align: right;"|1,750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,690,871
|-
|Kansas (KS)
|style="text-align: right;"|2
|style="text-align: right;"|500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|570,323
|style="text-align: right;"|3
|style="text-align: right;"|750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|771,406
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|30,574
|style="text-align: right;"|5
|style="text-align: right;"|1,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,372,303
|-
|Kentucky (KY)
|style="text-align: right;"|3
|style="text-align: right;"|750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|772,474
|style="text-align: right;"|6
|style="text-align: right;"|1,500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,326,646
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|37,648
|style="text-align: right;"|9
|style="text-align: right;"|2,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|2,136,768
|-
|Louisiana (LA)
|style="text-align: right;"|4
|style="text-align: right;"|1,000,000
|style="text-align: right;"|856,034
|style="text-align: right;"|5
|style="text-align: right;"|1,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,255,776
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|36,252
|style="text-align: right;"|9
|style="text-align: right;"|2,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|2,148,062
|-
|Maine (ME)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Maryland (MD)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Massachusetts (MA)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Michigan (MI)
|style="text-align: right;"|11
|style="text-align: right;"|2,750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|2,804,040
|style="text-align: right;"|9
|style="text-align: right;"|2,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|2,649,852
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|85,410
|style="text-align: right;"|21
|style="text-align: right;"|5,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|5,539,302
|-
|Minnesota (MN)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Mississippi (MS)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Missouri (MO)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Montana (MT)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Nebraska (NE)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Nevada (NV)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|New Hampshire (NH)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|New Jersey (NJ)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|New Mexico (NM)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|New York (NY)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|North Carolina (NC)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|North Dakota (ND)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Ohio (OH)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Oklahoma (OK)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Oregon (OR)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Pennsylvania (PA)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Rhode Island (RI)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|South Carolina (SC)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|South Dakota (SD)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Tennessee (TN)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Texas (TX)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Utah (UT)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Vermont (VT)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Virginia (VA)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Washington (WA)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|West Virginia (WV)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Wisconsin (WI)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Wyoming (WY)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Total
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|}

==Transcript==

:2020 Election Map
:[One stick figure in a black circle] = 250,000 votes
:[Stick figure in a blue circle] Biden
:[Stick figure in a red circle] Trump
:[Stick figure in a green circle] Other
:Votes are distributed by state as accurately as possible while keeping national totals correct.
:Location within each state is approximate.
:[Blue, red, and green circles are distributed across a map of the United States.]

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Politics]]
[[Category:Elections]]
[[Category:Comics with color]]
[[Category:Large drawings]]
[[Category:Comics featuring politicians]]
[[Category:Maps]]

2399: 2020 Election Map

2020-12-17T18:04:46Z

JimJJewett: /* Explanation */ added Michigan data to the table. someone else can be completist.

{{comic
| number = 2399
| date = December 16, 2020
| title = 2020 Election Map
| image = 2020_election_map.png
| titletext = There are more Trump voters in California than Texas, more Biden voters in Texas than New York, more Trump voters in New York than Ohio, more Biden voters in Ohio than Massachusetts, more Trump voters in Massachusetts than Mississippi, and more Biden voters in Mississippi than Vermont.
}}

*A [https://xkcd.com/2399/large/ larger version] of this image can be found by clicking the image at xkcd.com - the comic's page can also be accessed by clicking on the comic number above.

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a BIDEN VOTER IN OHIO. Please mention here why this explanation isn't complete. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
This is a sequel to an earlier comic, [[1939: 2016 Election Map]]. The United States elects its president not directly by popular vote but by an Electoral College composed of a number of electors, partially proportional to population, from each state. Presently, a "winner-take-all" system is used in most states: the winner of the popular vote in each state receives all of the electoral votes for that state. Though, strictly speaking, the electors are not required to cast their ballots according to this system, many states impose penalties on them if they don't. Technically, the popular vote in each state is to elect a slate of electors who in turn elect the President.

Many electoral results map color the states a solid color, indicating which state won the electoral votes, but this may not be representative of the population size of the state, or the number of voters. Furthermore, the states of Maine and Nebraska do not have a pure winner-takes-all system, but instead two of each state's electors vote for whoever won the statewide vote, and there is also one elector each assigned to a specific district's count. For example, while Biden won Maine statewide, he only got 3 out of its 4 votes, as the elector representing its second district voted for Trump, as expected.

Other maps used to demonstrate that "corn doesn't vote, people vote" (or similar rebuttals, referring to non-voting 'open space') include maps distorting the otherwise recognisable geography to make areas strictly proportional to the populations (or registered voters, actual voters or majority gap) within them. As an example, Los Angeles County, alone, is more populous than each of the states except for the nine most populous (even if you deprived California of it, for the duration) - or all of the ten least populous (plus DC) added together. Alaska, the largest state but with one of the fewest inhabitants, could be split and yet both halves each still cover more land area than Texas (and potentially both Alaskas now ranked firmly at the bottom of the population table).

Another mapping solution used by commentators was to use coloured circles sized to represent the quantities of voters (or majorities) that do something very similar to Randall's map by showing vast areas with small and sparse splotches of hue and other areas packed tightly with the local 'flavour' of votes.

The title text compares different voter pools in terms of absolute size. Unexpected truths - e.g., "There are more Trump voters in California than Texas" - can be explained by differences in population size. California (which was won by Biden) has a larger population than Texas (which was won by Trump), which has a higher population than New York (won by Biden), and so on. For example, Trump received over 6 million votes in California (though Biden received 11 million votes in winning the state) compared to 5.9 million votes received by Trump in Texas.

{| class="wikitable"
!|
!colspan="2"|Biden/Harris
!colspan="2"|Trump/Pence
!rowspan="2"|Total
Votes
|-
!|State
!|Votes
!|Perc
!|Votes
!|Perc
|-
|California
|style="text-align: right;"|11,110,250
|style="text-align: right;"|63.48%
|style="text-align: right;"|6,006,429
|style="text-align: right;"|34.32%
|style="text-align: right;"|17,500,881
|-
|Texas
|style="text-align: right;"|5,259,126
|style="text-align: right;"|46.48%
|style="text-align: right;"|5,890,347
|style="text-align: right;"|52.06%
|style="text-align: right;"|11,315,056
|-
|New York
|style="text-align: right;"|5,230,985
|style="text-align: right;"|60.86%
|style="text-align: right;"|3,244,798
|style="text-align: right;"|37.75%
|style="text-align: right;"|8,594,826
|-
|Ohio
|style="text-align: right;"|2,679,165
|style="text-align: right;"|45.24%
|style="text-align: right;"|3,154,834
|style="text-align: right;"|53.27%
|style="text-align: right;"|5,922,202
|-
|Massachusetts
|style="text-align: right;"|2,382,202
|style="text-align: right;"|65.60%
|style="text-align: right;"|1,167,202
|style="text-align: right;"|32.14%
|style="text-align: right;"|3,631,402
|-
|Mississippi
|style="text-align: right;"|539,508
|style="text-align: right;"|41.06%
|style="text-align: right;"|756,789
|style="text-align: right;"|57.60%
|style="text-align: right;"|1,313,894
|-
|Vermont
|style="text-align: right;"|242,820
|style="text-align: right;"|66.09%
|style="text-align: right;"|112,704
|style="text-align: right;"|30.67%
|style="text-align: right;"|367,428
|}
{{w|2020_United_States_presidential_election#Results_by_state|Source}}

The following table lists the number of 250,000-vote markers in the map by candidate and state, and compares this with the actual number of votes. {{w|2020_United_States_presidential_election#Results_by_state|Source}}
{| class="wikitable"
!|
!colspan="3"|Biden/Harris
!colspan="3"|Trump/Pence
!colspan="3"|Others
!colspan="3"|Total
|-
!|State
!|Markers
!|Votes
!|Actual votes
!|Markers
!|Votes
!|Actual votes
!|Markers
!|Votes
!|Actual votes
!|Markers
!|Votes
!|Actual votes
|-
|Alabama (AL)
|style="text-align: right;"|3
|style="text-align: right;"|750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|849,624
|style="text-align: right;"|6
|style="text-align: right;"|1,500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,441,170
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|32,488
|style="text-align: right;"|9
|style="text-align: right;"|2,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|2,323,282
|-
|Alaska (AK)
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|153,778
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|189,951
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|15,801
|style="text-align: right;"|2
|style="text-align: right;"|500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|359,530
|-
|Arizona (AZ)
|style="text-align: right;"|7
|style="text-align: right;"|1,750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,672,143
|style="text-align: right;"|7
|style="text-align: right;"|1,750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,661,686
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|53,497
|style="text-align: right;"|14
|style="text-align: right;"|3,500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|3,387,326
|-
|Arkansas (AR)
|style="text-align: right;"|2
|style="text-align: right;"|500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|423,932
|style="text-align: right;"|3
|style="text-align: right;"|750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|760,647
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|34490
|style="text-align: right;"|5
|style="text-align: right;"|1,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,219,069
|-
|California (CA)
|style="text-align: right;"|44
|style="text-align: right;"|11,000,000
|style="text-align: right;"|11,110,250
|style="text-align: right;"|24
|style="text-align: right;"|6,006,429
|style="text-align: right;"|6,000,000
|style="text-align: right;"|2
|style="text-align: right;"|500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|384,202
|style="text-align: right;"|70
|style="text-align: right;"|17,500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|17,500,881
|-
|Colorado (CO)
|style="text-align: right;"|7
|style="text-align: right;"|1,750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,804,352
|style="text-align: right;"|5
|style="text-align: right;"|1,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,364,607
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|88,021
|style="text-align: right;"|13
|style="text-align: right;"|3,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|3,256,980
|-
|Connecticut (CT)
|style="text-align: right;"|4.5
|style="text-align: right;"|1,125,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,080,680
|style="text-align: right;"|3
|style="text-align: right;"|750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|715,291
|style="text-align: right;"|0.5
|style="text-align: right;"|125,000
|style="text-align: right;"|28,309
|style="text-align: right;"|8
|style="text-align: right;"|2,000,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,824,280
|-
|Delaware (DE)
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|296,268
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|200,603
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|7,475
|style="text-align: right;"|2
|style="text-align: right;"|500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|504,346
|-
|District of Columbia (DC)
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|317,323
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|18,586
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|8,447
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|344,356
|-
|Florida (FL)
|style="text-align: right;"|21
|style="text-align: right;"|5,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|5,297,045
|style="text-align: right;"|23
|style="text-align: right;"|5,750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|5,668,731
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|101,680
|style="text-align: right;"|45
|style="text-align: right;"|11,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|11,067,456
|-
|Georgia (GA)
|style="text-align: right;"|10
|style="text-align: right;"|2,500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|2,473,633
|style="text-align: right;"|10
|style="text-align: right;"|2,500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|2,461,854
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|62,229
|style="text-align: right;"|20
|style="text-align: right;"|5,000,000
|style="text-align: right;"|4,997,716
|-
|Hawaii (HI)
|style="text-align: right;"|2
|style="text-align: right;"|500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|366,130
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|196,864
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|11,475
|style="text-align: right;"|3
|style="text-align: right;"|750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|574,469
|-
|Idaho (ID)
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|287,021
|style="text-align: right;"|2
|style="text-align: right;"|500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|554,119
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|26,874
|style="text-align: right;"|3
|style="text-align: right;"|750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|868,014
|-
|Illinois (IL)
|style="text-align: right;"|14
|style="text-align: right;"|3,500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|3,471,915
|style="text-align: right;"|10
|style="text-align: right;"|2,500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|2,446,891
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|114,938
|style="text-align: right;"|25
|style="text-align: right;"|6,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|6,033,744
|-
|Indiana (IN)
|style="text-align: right;"|5
|style="text-align: right;"|1,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,242,416
|style="text-align: right;"|7
|style="text-align: right;"|1,750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,729,519
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|61,183
|style="text-align: right;"|12
|style="text-align: right;"|3,000,000
|style="text-align: right;"|3,033,118
|-
|Iowa (IA)
|style="text-align: right;"|3
|style="text-align: right;"|750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|759,061
|style="text-align: right;"|4
|style="text-align: right;"|1,000,000
|style="text-align: right;"|897,672
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|34,138
|style="text-align: right;"|7
|style="text-align: right;"|1,750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,690,871
|-
|Kansas (KS)
|style="text-align: right;"|2
|style="text-align: right;"|500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|570,323
|style="text-align: right;"|3
|style="text-align: right;"|750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|771,406
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|30,574
|style="text-align: right;"|5
|style="text-align: right;"|1,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,372,303
|-
|Kentucky (KY)
|style="text-align: right;"|3
|style="text-align: right;"|750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|772,474
|style="text-align: right;"|6
|style="text-align: right;"|1,500,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,326,646
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|37,648
|style="text-align: right;"|9
|style="text-align: right;"|2,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|2,136,768
|-
|Louisiana (LA)
|style="text-align: right;"|4
|style="text-align: right;"|1,000,000
|style="text-align: right;"|856,034
|style="text-align: right;"|5
|style="text-align: right;"|1,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|1,255,776
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|0
|style="text-align: right;"|36,252
|style="text-align: right;"|9
|style="text-align: right;"|2,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|2,148,062
|-
|Maine (ME)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Maryland (MD)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Massachusetts (MA)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Michigan (MI)
|style="text-align: right;"|11
|style="text-align: right;"|2,750,000
|style="text-align: right;"|2,804,040
|style="text-align: right;"|9
|style="text-align: right;"|2,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|2,649,852
|style="text-align: right;"|1
|style="text-align: right;"|250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|85,410
|style="text-align: right;"|21
|style="text-align: right;"|5,250,000
|style="text-align: right;"|5,539,302
|-
|Minnesota (MN)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Mississippi (MS)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Missouri (MO)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Montana (MT)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Nebraska (NE)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Nevada (NV)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|New Hampshire (NH)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|New Jersey (NJ)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
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|style="text-align: right;"|
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|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|New Mexico (NM)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|New York (NY)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|North Carolina (NC)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
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|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|North Dakota (ND)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Ohio (OH)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
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|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
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|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Oklahoma (OK)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Oregon (OR)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Pennsylvania (PA)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Rhode Island (RI)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|South Carolina (SC)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|South Dakota (SD)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Tennessee (TN)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Texas (TX)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Utah (UT)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Vermont (VT)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Virginia (VA)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Washington (WA)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|West Virginia (WV)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Wisconsin (WI)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Wyoming (WY)
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
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|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|-
|Total
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
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|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|style="text-align: right;"|
|}

==Transcript==

:2020 Election Map
:[One stick figure in a black circle] = 250,000 votes
:[Stick figure in a blue circle] Biden
:[Stick figure in a red circle] Trump
:[Stick figure in a green circle] Other
:Votes are distributed by state as accurately as possible while keeping national totals correct.
:Location within each state is approximate.
:[Blue, red, and green circles are distributed across a map of the United States.]

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Politics]]
[[Category:Elections]]
[[Category:Comics with color]]
[[Category:Large drawings]]
[[Category:Comics featuring politicians]]
[[Category:Maps]]

2381: The True Name of the Bear

2020-11-04T19:29:21Z

JimJJewett: /* Explanation */ note that the comic came true

{{comic
| number = 2381
| date = November 4, 2020
| title = The True Name of the Bear
| image = the_true_name_of_the_bear.png
| titletext = Thank you to Gretchen McCulloch for fielding this question, and sorry that as a result the world's foremost internet linguist has been devoured by the brown one. She will be missed.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by THE BEAR WHO MUST NOT BE NAMED. Sir, madam, or variation thereupon under the username Gbisaga, your linguistic speculations are honestly interesting. However, they’re original research. Please find a citation. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

The Canadian Internet linguist {{w|Gretchen McCulloch}} [https://twitter.com/gretchenamcc/status/1113195661275611137 tweeted] about [https://www.charlierussellbears.com/LinguisticArchaeology.html the theory] that the word for bear became taboo in some branches of Indoeuropean languages - notably the Germanic one - and it was replaced by euphemisms. In the Germanic branch, the euphemism may have been like "the brown one" and words for bear derive from words for "brown".

The Indoeuropean root for bear is *rkto-, which has been inferred from languages that use words derived from it. In the comic, Gretchen McCulloch applies {{w|Sound change|sound shifting}} laws to it to guess how it would have evolved into English, but pronouncing it seems to actually summon a bear, showing that abandoning that word was a fairly wise move for the Germanic language family. Interestingly enough, the hypothesized word “arth” is the same as the Welsh and Cornish for the word “bear.” Welsh belongs to the Celtic language family, which is one of the Indoeuropean branches that still uses a word derived from *rkto-, as the Italic (Romance), Greek and Indoarian (Sanscrit) branches do, while Germanic, Slavic and Baltic branches abandoned it for different euphemisms.

However, there seems to be a consistency problem with the comic. If saying the "true" name (or any name derived from that name) summons the bear, how is it that the Welsh and most Romance language speakers (e.g. Italians saying Orso, Spaniards saying Oso, etc) get away without being constantly mauled? The only explanations might be if the bears only respond to certain languages, but that seems unlikely since the languages that the bears would be prompted by would have developed thousands of years apart in time. An arcane form of {{w|geofencing}}, and/or a {{w|geas}} firmly tied to some prior mystically-established meta-contextualising, might limit such otherworldly 'magic' and explain why more mundane science and logic is usually unworried by these kinds of phenomena being inadvertently triggered.

Use of true names appears to be [[1013: Wake Up Sheeple|highly effective in the xkcd universe, rather like a fairy tale.]]

Internet Linguist Gretchen McCulloch (or her ghost) certainly found it effective, but https://twitter.com/GretchenAMcC/status/1324044826145378304 may reflect her extreme susceptibility to internet leakage.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[Megan walks in front the left, looking down at her phone. Cueball and Ponytail are standing next to each other.]
:Megan: Wow - according to the internet, we don't know the true name of the bear.
:Cueball: What?

:[Gretchen comes on-panel from the right.]
:Megan: Apparently there was a superstition that saying its name would summon it. "Bear" and "bruin" mean "the brown one." Its actual name has been lost.
:Cueball: Wow.
:Ponytail: Gretchen, is this for real?

:[Zoom-in on Gretchen.]
:Gretchen: Well, sort of
:Gretchen: The Proto-Indo-European root was *rkto-
:Gretchen: It was lost in the Germanic languages like English, but survived elsewhere, e.g. Greek "arktos" and Latin "ursus"

:[Back to the second panel, with Megan holding her phone down, Ponytail with her hands in the air, and Gretchen with his hand on his chin.]
:Megan: So could we figure out what the word would have been in English?
:Gretchen: Hmm. I mean, we'll never know, but given Germanic sound shifts, a reasonable guess might be "arth"?
:Ponytail: ''No!!''

:[The panel zooms in again to Gretchen.]
:Ponytail (off-panel): ''Stop! AAAAA!''
:Gretchen: What??
:Ponytail (off-panel): Don't ''say'' it!

:[Ponytail is holding her palms out. Megan is no longer in the panel.]
:Ponytail: What have you ''done''?
:Off-panel noise: <big>'''''ROAR'''''</big>
:Gretchen: Oh
:Gretchen: Oh no

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Comics featuring real people]]
[[Category:Language]]
[[Category:Animals]]

2379: Probability Comparisons

2020-11-01T06:34:48Z

JimJJewett: /* Table */ note earthquake vs california earthquake

{{comic
| number = 2379
| date = October 30, 2020
| title = Probability Comparisons
| image = probability comparisons new.png
| titletext = Call me, MAYBE.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by LEBRON JAMES THROWING M&Ms AT A KEYBOARD. The table for the explanations of the chances isn't complete, nor is the transcript. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

This is a list of probabilities for different events. There are numerous recurring themes, of which the most common are free throws (13 entries), birthdays (12), dice (12, split about evenly between d6 and d20 types), M&M candies (11), playing cards (9), NBA basketball mid-game victory predictions (9), Scrabble tiles (7), coins (7), white Christmases (7), and the NBA players Stephen Curry and LeBron James (7 each).

Themes are variously repeated and combined, for humorous effect. For instance, there are entries for both the probability that St. Louis will have a white Christmas (21%) and that it will not (79%). Also given is the 40% probability that a random Scrabble tile will contain a letter from the name "Steph Curry".

There are 80 items in the list, the last two of which devolve into absurdity - perhaps from the stress of preparing the other 78 entries.

The list may be an attempt to better understand probabilistic election forecasts for the {{w|2020 United States presidential election}} which was four days away at the time this comic was published, and had also been aluded to in [[2370: Prediction]] and [[2371: Election Screen Time]]. Statistician and psephologist {{w|Nate Silver}} is referenced in one of the list items. On the date this cartoon was published, Nate Silver's website FiveThirtyEight.com was publishing forecast probabilities of Donald Trump and Joe Biden winning the US Presidential election. [[https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/]]. On 31 October 2020, the forecast described the chances of Donald Trump winning as "roughly the same as the chance that it’s raining in downtown Los Angeles. It does rain there. (Downtown L.A. has about 36 rainy days per year, or about a 1-in-10 shot of a rainy day.)" A day previously, when the chances were 12%, the website had also described Trump's chances of winning as "slightly less than a six sided die rolling a 1".

The probabilities are calculated from [https://xkcd.com/2379/sources/ these sources], as mentioned in the bottom left corner.

The title text refers to the song "{{w|Call Me Maybe}}" by Carly Rae Jepsen (cited twice in the list). "MAYBE" is emphasized, perhaps because the probability of getting her phone number correct, as in the last item in the list, is very low. The capitalization could also be a reference to Scrabble tiles, as was previously mentioned in association with Carly Rae Jepsen.

==Table==
{| class="wikitable sortable"
! Odds
! Text
! Explanation
|-
| 0.01%
| You guess the last four digits of someone's {{w|Social Security Number}} on the first try
| There are 10 digits in a {{w|Social Security Number}}, but the last four are commonly used as an identity verification factor. (1/10)4 = 0.0001, or 0.01%
|-
| 0.1%
| Three randomly chosen people are all left-handed
| The chances of having left-{{w|handedness}} is about [https://www.healthline.com/health/left-handers-and-health-risk 10%], and 10%3 = 0.1%.
|-
| rowspan="2" | 0.2%
| You draw 2 random {{w|Scrabble}} tiles and get M and M
| This appears to be an error. Under standard English {{w|Scrabble letter distribution}} there are 100 tiles of which 2 are M. This would give a probability of randomly drawing M and M as 2/100 × 1/99 ≈ 0.02%. However, other language editions of Scrabble have different letter distributions, some of which could allow this to be true.
|-
| You draw 3 random {{w|M&Ms}} and they're all red
| According to Randall's source, the proportion of reds is 13%.<ref>M&Ms color proportion 13% red 13% brown 14% yellow 16% green 20% orange 24% blue</ref> 0.13^3 ≈ 0.22%.
|-
| 0.3%
| You guess someone's birthday in one try.
| 1/365 ≈ 0.27%. Taking into account that a person might have been born February 29, the probability with a random guess is slightly lower. If the guesser knows on which days there are slightly more births (for example, early October, believed to be because of conceptions occurring on the evening of December 31) and which days there are slightly fewer (for examples, holidays on which a planned, pre-scheduled C-section is unlikely to be held), then the probability is slightly higher.
|-
| rowspan="2" | 0.5%
| An {{w|NBA}} team down by 30 at halftime wins
|
|-
| You get 4 M&Ms and they're all brown or yellow
| Depending on the source of one's M&Ms in the U.S., the proportion of them that is brown or yellow is either 0.25 or 0.259 . 0.25^4≈ 0.39%; 0.259^4 ≈ 0.45% .
|-
| rowspan="2" | 1%
| {{w|Steph Curry}} gets two free throws and misses both
| Curry is a 91% career free throw shooter, so the percentage of missing 1 FT is about 9%. The chance of missing 2 FTs is about 0.8% ≈ 1%.
|-
|{{w|LeBron James}} guesses your birthday, if each guess costs one free throw and he loses if he misses
|
|-
| rowspan="2" | 1.5%
| You get two M&Ms and they're both red
| According to Randall's sources, the probability of a red M&M is about 13%, so the probability of 2 M&Ms being red is (13%)^2 ≈ 1.69%.
|-
| You share a birthday with a {{w|Backstreet Boys|Backstreet Boy}}
|Each of the five Backstreet Boys has a different birthday, so the odds that you share a birthday with one is 5/365.25 ≈ 1.3% .
|-
| 2%
| You guess someone's card on the first try
| There are 52 cards in a normal deck of cards (excluding jokers), so the probability is 1/52, which is approximately 0.019 (1.9%).
|-
| rowspan="2"| 3%
| You guess 5 coin tosses and get them all right
| The chance of correctly predicting a coin toss is 0.5. The chance of predicting 5 in a row is 0.5^5, or 3.125%.
|-
| Steph Curry wins that birthday free throw game
|
|-
| rowspan="3"| 4%
| You sweep a 3-game {{w|rock paper scissors}} series
| Picking randomly, you have a 1 in 3 chance of beating an opponent on the first try. (1/3)3 = 1/27 ≈ 4% .
|-
| {{w|Portland, Oregon}} has a {{w|White Christmas (weather)|white Christmas}}
| According to Randall's source (from the ''Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society''), the probability of snow cover in Portland is 4%.
|-
| You share a birthday with two {{w|US Senator}}s
| At the time this comic was published, 9 days were birthdays for more than one Senator.<ref>Rand Paul (R-KY) and John Thune (R-SD) were both born January 7. 
Patrick Leahy (D-VT) and Angus King (I-MN) were both born March 31. 
Jim Risch (R-ID), Ron Wyden (D-OR) and David Vitter (R-LA) were all born May 3. 
Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) and Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) were both born June 22. 
Bob Corker (R-TN) and Joe Manchin (D-WV) were both born August 24. 
Bill Nelson (D-FL) and Joe Donnelly (D-IA) were both born September 29. 
Mike Rounds (R-SD) and Jeff Merkley (D-OR) were both born October 24. 
Pat Toomey (R-PA) and Jim Inhofe (R-OK) were both born November 17. 
John Boozman (R-AR) and David Perdue (R-GA) were both born December 10.</ref>
|-
| rowspan="2"| 5%
| An NBA team down 20 at halftime wins
|
|-
| You roll a natural 20
| A natural 20 indicates a critical hit in the {{w|Dungeons & Dragons}} role playing game. "Natural" means that it is the number showing when rolling a d20 (a 20-sided die), as opposed to an overall total of 20 when counting the die roll plus modifiers. There are twenty sides to a d20 die. 1/20 = 0.05 = 5%
|-
| 6%
| You correctly guess someone's card given 3 tries
| Picking a random card within 3 times gives 1 - (51/52)(50/51)(49/50) ≈ 6% .
|-
| 7%
| LeBron James gets two free throws and misses both
| James' career FT percentage is 73%, so the probability of a miss is 27%. The probability of 2 misses is (27%)^2, which is about 7%.
|-
| 8%
| You correctly guess someone's card given 4 tries
| Assuming you guess four different cards, 4/52 = 0.0769 ≈ 8% .
|-
| 9%
| Steph Curry misses a free throw
| Curry's career free throw percentage is 91%, so the probability of a miss is 9%.
|-
| rowspan="2"|10%
| You draw 5 cards and get the Ace of Spades
| There are 52 cards in a normal deck of cards (excluding jokers), and the Ace of Spades is one of them. The chances of getting the card is 1 - 51/52 * 50/51 * 49/50 * 48/49 * 47/48 which is approximately 0.096, which rounds to the given 10%. 
|-
| There's a {{w|Moment magnitude scale|magnitude}} 8+ earthquake in the next month
| Note that, unlike other earthquake examples, this does not specify where the earthquake occurs.
|-
| 11%
| You sweep a 2-game rock paper scissors series
| You have a 1/3 chance of winning the first comparison, and a 1/3 chance of winning the second. (1/3) * (1/3) = 1/9 ~ 0.11 = 11% .
|-
| rowspan="3"|12%
| A randomly-chosen American lives in {{w|California}}
| California is the most populous state in the US. Out of the approximately 328.2 million Americans (as of 2019), 39.51 million live in California. This means that a randomly chosen American has about a 39.51/328.2 ≈ 10.33% of living in California. Due to population change and rounding based on different sources, this could be pushed to 12%.
|-
| You correctly guess someone's card given 6 tries
| Assuming you don't repeat previous wrong guess, the probability is 6/52=3/26 = ~11.54%
|-
| You share a birthday with a {{w|US President}}
| Presidents {{w|James Polk}} and {{w|Warren Harding}} share a birthday, and are the only presidents so far (in 2020) to do so. Additionally, {{w|Grover Cleveland}} served two non-consecutive terms and is counted twice (as the 22nd and 24th presidents). He therefore shares a birthday with himself. With 43 distinct birthdays, the odds of sharing a birthday are 43/365 ≈ 12%. (This does not consider February 29 or that more births occur on some days than others.)
|-
| rowspan="3"|13%
| A {{w|Dice#Polyhedral_dice|d6}} beats a {{w|Dice#Polyhedral_dice|d20}}
| The odds of a d6 beating a d20 are (0 + 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5)/(120) = 0.125 ≈ 13% .
|-
| An NBA team down 10 going into the 4th quarter wins
|
|-
| You pull one M&M from a bag and it's red
| According to Randall's source, the probability of a red M&M is 13%.
|-
| 14%
| A randomly drawn scrabble tile beats a D6 die roll
| {{w|Scrabble}} is a game in which you place lettered tiles to form words. Most of the scores per letter are 1, making it rare to beat a d6. The odds are (70/100)(0) + (7/100)(1/6) + (8/100)(2/6) + (10/100)(3/6) + (1/100)(4/6) + (4/100)(6/6) ≈ 14%.
|-
| 15%
| You roll a D20 and get at least 18
| The set of "at least 18" on a d20 is 18, 19, and 20. The odds of rolling one of these is 3/20 = 15% .
|-
| 16%
| Steph Curry gets two free throws but makes only one
|
|-
| 17%
| You roll a D6 die and get a 6
| The odds are 1/6 ≈ 17% .
|-
| 18%
| A D6 beats or ties a D20
| The odds are (1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6)/(120) = 17.5% .
|-
| 19%
| At least one person in a random pair is left-handed
| The chances of being left handed is about 10%, so the probability of both people in the pair not being left-handed is 0.92=0.81, and 1-0.81=0.19.
|-
| 20%
| You get a dozen M&Ms and none of them are brown
|
|-
| 21%
| {{w|St. Louis}} has a white Christmas
| According to Randall's source, the probability of snow cover in St. Louis is 21%.
|-
| 22%
| An NBA team wins when they're down 10 at halftime
|
|-
| rowspan="2"| 23%
| You get an M&M and it's blue
| According to Randall's source, the "test probability" of a blue M&M is 24%.
|-
| You share a birthday with a US senator
| There are 100 Senators, but 19 Senators share 9 birthdays and 81 Senators have unique birthdays, so there are a total of 90 days of the year that are the birthday of a Senator.
|-
| 24%
| You correctly guess that someone was born in the winter
| The winter lasts ~24% of the year, so ~24% of birthdays are in the winter.
|-
| rowspan="2"| 25%
| You correctly guess that someone was born in the fall
| The fall lasts ~25% of the year, so ~25% of birthdays are in the fall. This statement would also have been true for spring.
|-
| You roll two plain M&Ms and get M and M.
| An M&M can land on one of two sides, one with an M and one without. The odds of "rolling" two Ms is 1/4 = 25%. The term "rolling" is used jokingly in reference to the d6s and d20s above, suggesting that an M&M is a standard d2; this becomes especially true once you consider that a more accurate reference would have been two a coin, not a die.
|-
| 26%
| You correctly guess someone was born in the summer
| The summer lasts ~26% of the year, so ~26% of birthdays are in the summer.
|-
| 27%
| LeBron James misses a free throw
| James' career FT percentage is 73%, so the probability of missing is 27%.
|-
| 32%
| {{w|Pittsburgh}} has a white Christmas
| According to Randall's source, the probability of snow cover in Pittsburgh is 32%.
|-
| rowspan="3"| 33%
| A randomly chosen Star Wars movie (Episodes I-IX) has "of the" in the title
| Episodes II (Attack of the Clones), III (Revenge of the Sith), and VI (Return of the Jedi) are the movies. This gives the odds of 3/9 ≈ 33% .
|-
| You win the Monty Hall sports car by picking a door and refusing to switch
| The {{w|Monty Hall problem}} is a counterintuitive logic problem, in which you pick one of three doors at random. One of the doors has a car behind it, so the odds that you picked the door are 1/3 ≈ 33%. Thus, by not switching doors, your odds remain the same. The Monty Hall problem has previously appeared in [[1282: Monty Hall]] and [[1492: Dress Color]].
|-
| You win rock paper scissors by picking randomly
| The odds of beating an opponent on the first try by picking randomly is 1/3 ≈ 33% .
|-
| 34%
| You draw five cards and get an ace
| The odds are 1 - (48/52)(47/51)(46/50)(45/49)(44/48) ≈ 34% .
|-
| 35%
| A random Scrabble tile is one of the letters in "random"
| The odds of drawing a letter in "random" are (6 + 9 + 6 + 4 + 8 + 2)/100 = 35% .
|-
| 39%
| LeBron James gets two free throws but misses one
|
|-
| 40%
| A random Scrabble tile is a letter in "Steph Curry"
| The odds of drawing a letter in "Steph Curry" are (4 + 6 + 12 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 4 + 6 + 2)/100 = 40% .
|-
| 46%
| There's a magnitude 7 quake in LA within 30 years
|
|-
| rowspan="2"|48%
| {{w|Milwaukee}} has a white Christmas
| According to Randall's source, the probability of snow cover in Milwaukee is 48%.
|-
| A random Scrabble tile is a letter in Carly Rae Jepsen
| The odds of a Scrabble tile being in her name are (2 + 9 + 6 + 4 + 2 + 12 + 1 + 2 + 4 + 6)/100 = 48% .
|-
| 50%
| You get heads in a coin toss
| There are two options in a coin toss, heads or tails, so the odds of getting heads is 50% (1/2).
|-
| 53%
| {{w|Salt Lake City}} has a white Christmas
| According to Randall's source, the probability of snow cover in Salt Lake City is 53%.
|-
| 54%
| LeBron James gets two free throws and makes both
| James' career FT percentage is 73%, so the probability of making 2 FT is (73%)^2 = 53.9%.
|-
| 58%
| A random Scrabble tile is a letter in "Nate Silver"
| {{w|Nate Silver}} is a recurring person on xkcd. The odds of a Scrabble tile being in his name are (6 + 9 + 6 + 12 + 4 + 9 + 4 + 2 + 6)/100 = 58% .
|-
| 60%
| You get two M&Ms and neither is blue
|
|-
| 65%
| {{w|Burlington, Vermont}} has a white Christmas
| According to Randall's source, the probability of snow cover in Burlington is 65%.
|-
| 66%
| A randomly chosen movie from the main Lord of the Rings trilogy has “of the” in the title twice
| The titles are:
* ''The Lord '''of the''' Rings: The Fellowship '''of the''' Ring''
* ''The Lord '''of the''' Rings: The Two Towers''
* ''The Lord '''of the''' Rings: The Return '''of the''' King''
All of them have “of the” at least once, in “The Lord of the Rings”, but only the first and third have it twice, and 2/3 ≈ 66%. This number typically rounds up to 67% , however, and it is unclear why it is not, given that the same reduced fraction is written in the 67% category below.
|-
| 67%
| You roll at least a 3 with a d6
| The set of "at least 3" on a d6 refers to 3, 4, 5, and 6. The odds are 4/6 ≈ 67%.
|-
| 71%
| A random Scrabble tile beats a random dice roll
| This is a typo, as the correct probability is at the 14% entry. A random (d6) die roll beats a random Scrabble tile 71% of the time. [[Randall]] probably meant to write '''A random d6 dice roll''' beats '''a random Scrabble tile'''.
|-
| 73%
| LeBron James makes a free throw
| This is James' career FT percentage, 73%.
|-
| 75%
| You drop two M&Ms and one of them ends with the "M" up so it's clear they're not Skittles
| The odds of at least one 'M' showing up is 1 - (1/4) = 75% . The reference to {{w|Skittles}} is that the two candies look similar to one another, and Randall has probably bit into a Skittle thinking it was an M&M, or vice versa. This trick might prevent that from happening in the future.
|-
| 76%
| You get two M&Ms and neither is red
|
|-
| 77%
| You get an an M&M and it's not blue
|
|-
| 78%
| An NBA team wins when they're up 10 at halftime
|
|-
| 79%
| St. Louis doesn't have a white Christmas
| According to Randall's source, the probability of snow cover in St. Louis is 21%, thus the probability of ''no'' snow cover is 79%.

|-
| 81%
| Two random people are both right-handed
| The probability of 1 person being right-handed is about 90%, thus the probability of 2 right handers is (90%)^2 = 81%.
|-
| 83%
| Steph Curry gets two free throws and makes both
| Curry's career FT percentage is 91%, so the probability of making 2 FTs is (91%)^2 = 82.81%.
|-
| 85%
| You roll a d20 and get at least a 4
| The set "at least 4" on a d20 refers to 4, 5, 6... 18, 19, 20. The odds of this are 17/20 = 85% .
|-
| rowspan="2"| 87%
| An NBA team up by 10 going into the 4th quarter wins
|
|-
| Someone fails to guess your card given 7 tries
|Assuming they guess seven different cards, there are 45 unguessed cards left. 45/52 = 0.865384615 ~ 86.5%
|-
| 88%
| A randomly chosen American lives outside California
| This is the opposite of the previous California probability. As the probability of an American living in California is 12%, the opposite would be 88%.
|-
| 89%
| You roll a 3 or higher given two tries
| The probability of rolling a 3 or higher (on a 6-sided die) is 66%, so the percentage of rolling a 3 or higher given 2 tries is 1 - (1-.66)^2 = 89%.
|-
| 90%
| Someone fails to guess your card given 5 tries
| Assuming they guess five different cards, there are 47 unguessed cards left. 47/52 = 0.90385 ~ 90%
|-
| rowspan="2"| 91%
| You incorrectly guess that someone was born in August
| If the odds of someone being born in August are ~9% , then the odds that a person was not born in August are ~91%. (In an average month, 8 1/3% of the population was born. August has an above average number of days, but still only about 8.5% of the year is in August.)
|-
| Steph Curry makes a free throw
| This is Curry's career FT percentage, 91%.
|-
| 92%
| You guess someone's birth month at random and are wrong
| On average, a month lasts 8 1/3% of the year. Thus, if you were to guess someone's birth month at random, you would be wrong 91 2/3% of the time.
|-
| 93%
| Lebron James makes a free throw given two tries
| James' career FT percentage is 73%, so the percentage of his making at least 1 FT given 2 tries is 1 - (1-.73)^2 = 93%.
|-
| 94%
| Someone fails to guess your card given 3 tries
| The odds of this happening are (51/52)(50/51)(49/50) ≈ 94% .
|-
| 95%
| An NBA team wins when they're up 20 at halftime
|
|-
| 96%
| Someone fails to guess your card given 2 tries
| The odds of this happening are (51/52)(50/51) ≈ 96% .
|-
| 97%
| You try to guess 5 coin tosses and fail
| The odds of this happening are 1 - (1/2)5 ≈ 97% .
|-
| 98%
| You incorrectly guess someone's birthday is this week
| The odds of this happening are about 51/52 ≈ 98%. (This depends on the week; there are more births in early October and fewer in holiday weeks.)
|-
| 98.5%
| An NBA team up 15 points with 8 minutes left wins
|
|-
| 99%
| Steph Curry makes a free throw given two tries
| James' career FT percentage is 91%, so the percentage of his making at least 1 FT given 2 tries is 1 - (1-.91)^2 = 99%.
|-
| 99.5%
| An NBA team that's up by 30 points at halftime wins
|
|-
| 99.7%
| You guess someone's birthday at random and are wrong
| The odds of this are 364/365 ≈ 99.7%.
|-
| 99.8%
| There's not a {{w|Moment magnitude scale|magnitude}} 8 quake in {{w|California}} next year
|
|-
| 99.9%
| A random group of three people contains a right-hander
| About 90% of people are right-handed, so the percentage of at least 1 right-hander in a group of 3 is 1 - (1-.9)^3 = 99.9%.
|-
| 99.99%
| You incorrectly guess the last four digits of someone's social security number
| There are 10 digits in a Social Security Number, but the last four are commonly used as an identity verification factor. The odds of this are 1 - (1/10)4 = 99.99% .
|-
| 99.9999999999999995%
| You pick up a phone, dial a random 10-digit number, and say 'Hello Barack Obama, there's just been a {{w|Moment magnitude scale|magnitude}} 8 earthquake in {{w|California}}!" and are wrong
| In order to get this ''right,'' three things, two highly improbable, would have to happen simultaneously. First you would have to guess one of Barack Obama's phone numbers. (In the United States, where Obama lives and has his office, a '10-digit number' consists of a three digit 'area code' (analagous to a city code in international calling) and a 7-digit local number. Although 1 is the country code for the U.S., it is not counted as one of the 10 digits.) A few of the digits ''could'' be worked out logically - for example, by looking up the area code for the city where he lives or has a home or office, but the text specifies that the entire number is random.) Second, you would have to call that number when there has just been a magnitude 8 earthquake in California (the time interval isn't given, however). Third, he would have to answer the call personally (as opposed to letting a cell phone call go to voice mail, or his secretary, wife, etc., answering his office or home phone).
|-
| 0.00000001%
| You add "Hang on, this is big — I'm going to loop in Carly Rae Jepsen", dial another random 10-digit number, and she picks up
| The odds of a random number being hers would be 1 - (1/10)10 = 0.00000001% if she had only one phone number. However, that is not the probability that "she picks up", because, like Obama, she might either have more than one phone number (increasing the probability) or be letting calls from unknown callers go to voice mail (making the probability zero).
|}

===References===
{{#tag:references}}

==Trivia==
In the original comic, "outside" in the 88% probability section is spelled incorrectly as "outide". In addition, the 39% section had "two free throw" instead of "throws".

The (seemingly unimportant) odds of LeBron James' versus Stephen Curry's free throws and names in Scrabble refer to [[2002: LeBron James and Stephen Curry]].

==Transcript==
<big>Probability Comparisons</big>

0.01% You guess the last four digits of someone's social security number on the first try

0.1% Three randomly chosen people are all left-handed

0.2% You draw 2 random Scrabble tiles and get M and M

You draw 3 random M&Ms and they're all red

0.3% You guess someone's birthday in one try.

0.5% An NBA team down by 30 at halftime wins

You get 4 M&Ms and they're all brown or yellow

1% Steph Curry gets two free throws and misses both

LeBron James guesses your birthday, if each guess costs one free throw and he loses if he misses

1.5% You get two M&Ms and they're both red

You share a birthday with a Backstreet Boy

2% You guess someone's card on the first try

3% You guess 5 coin tosses and get them all right

Steph Curry wins that birthday free throw game

4% You sweep a 3-game rock paper scissors series

Portland, Oregon has a white Christmas

You share a birthday with two US Senators

5% An NBA team down 20 at halftime wins

You roll a natural 20

6% You correctly guess someone's card given 3 tries

7% LeBron James gets two free throws and misses both

8% You correctly guess someone's card given 4 tries

9% Steph Curry misses a free throw

10% You draw 5 cards and get the Ace of Spades

There's a magnitude 8+ earthquake in the next month

11% You sweep a 2-game rock paper scissors series

12% A randomly-chosen American lives in California

You correctly guess someone's card given 6 tries

You share a birthday with a US President

13% A d6 beats a d20

An NBA team down 10 going into the 4th quarter wins

You pull one M&M from a bag and it's red

14% A randomly drawn scrabble tile beats a d6 die roll

15% You roll a d20 and get at least 18

16% Steph Curry gets two free throws but makes only one

17% You roll a d6 die and get a 6

18% A d6 beats or ties a d20

19% At least one person in a random pair is left-handed

20% You get a dozen M&Ms and none of them are brown

21% St. Louis has a white Christmas

22% An NBA team wins when they're down 10 at halftime

23% You get an M&M and it's blue

You share a birthday with a US senator

24% You correctly guess that someone was born in the winter

25% You correctly guess that someone was born in the fall

You roll two plain M&Ms and get M and M.

26% You correctly guess someone was born in the summer

27% LeBron James misses a free throw

32% Pittsburgh has a white Christmas

33% A randomly chosen Star Wars movie (Episodes I-IX) has "of the" in the title

You win the Monty Hall sports car by picking a door and refusing to switch

You win rock paper scissors by picking randomly

34% You draw five cards and get an ace

35% A random Scrabble tile is one of the letters in "random"

39% LeBron James gets two free throws but misses one

40% A random Scrabble tile is a letter in "Steph Curry"

46% There's a magnitude 7 quake in LA within 30 years

48% Milwaukee has a white Christmas

A random Scrabble tile is a letter in Carly Rae Jepsen

50% You get heads in a coin toss

53% Salt Lake City has a white Christmas

54% LeBron James gets two free throws and makes both

58% A random Scrabble tile is a letter in "Nate Silver"

60% You get two M&Ms and neither is blue

65% Burlington, Vermont has a white Christmas

66% A randomly chosen movie from the main Lord of the Rings trilogy has “of the” in the title twice

67% You roll at least a 3 with a d6

71% A random Scrabble tile beats a random dice roll

73% LeBron James makes a free throw

75% You drop two M&Ms and one of them ends with the "M" up so it's clear they're not Skittles

76% You get two M&Ms and neither is red

77% You get an an M&M and it's not blue

78% An NBA team wins when they're up 10 at halftime

79% St. Louis doesn't have a white Christmas

81% Two random people are both right-handed

83% Steph Curry gets two free throws and makes both

85% You roll a d20 and get at least a 4

87% An NBA team up by 10 going into the 4th quarter wins

Someone fails to guess your card given 7 tries

88% A randomly chosen American lives outside California

89% You roll a 3 or higher given two tries

90% Someone fails to guess your card given 5 tries

91% You incorrectly guess that someone was born in August

Steph Curry makes a free throw

92% You guess someone's birth month at random and are wrong

93% Lebron James makes a free throw given two tries

94% Someone fails to guess your card given 3 tries

95% An NBA team wins when they're up 20 at halftime

96% Someone fails to guess your card given 2 tries

97% You try to guess 5 coin tosses and fail

98% You incorrectly guess someone's birthday is this week

98.5% An NBA team up 15 points with 8 minutes left wins

99% Steph Curry makes a free throw given two tries

99.5% An NBA team that's up by 30 points at halftime wins

99.7% You guess someone's birthday at random and are wrong

99.8% There's not a magnitude 8 quake in California next year

99.9% A random group of three people contains a right-hander

99.99% You incorrectly guess the last four digits of someone's social security number

99.9999999999999995% You pick up a phone, dial a random 10-digit number, and say 'Hello Barack Obama, there's just been a magnitude 8 earthquake in California!" and are wrong

0.00000001% You add "Hang on, this is big — I'm going to loop in Carly Rae Jepsen", dial another random 10-digit number, and she picks up

Sources: https://xkcd.com/2379/sources/

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Statistics]]
[[Category:Comics featuring real people]]
[[Category:Comics featuring politicians]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Nate Silver]]
[[Category:Basketball]]
[[Category:Christmas]]
[[Category:Food]]

2379: Probability Comparisons

2020-11-01T06:31:57Z

JimJJewett: /* Table */ clip the empty extra boxes on some rows

{{comic
| number = 2379
| date = October 30, 2020
| title = Probability Comparisons
| image = probability comparisons new.png
| titletext = Call me, MAYBE.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by LEBRON JAMES THROWING M&Ms AT A KEYBOARD. The table for the explanations of the chances isn't complete, nor is the transcript. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

This is a list of probabilities for different events. There are numerous recurring themes, of which the most common are free throws (13 entries), birthdays (12), dice (12, split about evenly between d6 and d20 types), M&M candies (11), playing cards (9), NBA basketball mid-game victory predictions (9), Scrabble tiles (7), coins (7), white Christmases (7), and the NBA players Stephen Curry and LeBron James (7 each).

Themes are variously repeated and combined, for humorous effect. For instance, there are entries for both the probability that St. Louis will have a white Christmas (21%) and that it will not (79%). Also given is the 40% probability that a random Scrabble tile will contain a letter from the name "Steph Curry".

There are 80 items in the list, the last two of which devolve into absurdity - perhaps from the stress of preparing the other 78 entries.

The list may be an attempt to better understand probabilistic election forecasts for the {{w|2020 United States presidential election}} which was four days away at the time this comic was published, and had also been aluded to in [[2370: Prediction]] and [[2371: Election Screen Time]]. Statistician and psephologist {{w|Nate Silver}} is referenced in one of the list items. On the date this cartoon was published, Nate Silver's website FiveThirtyEight.com was publishing forecast probabilities of Donald Trump and Joe Biden winning the US Presidential election. [[https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/]]. On 31 October 2020, the forecast described the chances of Donald Trump winning as "roughly the same as the chance that it’s raining in downtown Los Angeles. It does rain there. (Downtown L.A. has about 36 rainy days per year, or about a 1-in-10 shot of a rainy day.)" A day previously, when the chances were 12%, the website had also described Trump's chances of winning as "slightly less than a six sided die rolling a 1".

The probabilities are calculated from [https://xkcd.com/2379/sources/ these sources], as mentioned in the bottom left corner.

The title text refers to the song "{{w|Call Me Maybe}}" by Carly Rae Jepsen (cited twice in the list). "MAYBE" is emphasized, perhaps because the probability of getting her phone number correct, as in the last item in the list, is very low. The capitalization could also be a reference to Scrabble tiles, as was previously mentioned in association with Carly Rae Jepsen.

==Table==
{| class="wikitable sortable"
! Odds
! Text
! Explanation
|-
| 0.01%
| You guess the last four digits of someone's {{w|Social Security Number}} on the first try
| There are 10 digits in a {{w|Social Security Number}}, but the last four are commonly used as an identity verification factor. (1/10)4 = 0.0001, or 0.01%
|-
| 0.1%
| Three randomly chosen people are all left-handed
| The chances of having left-{{w|handedness}} is about [https://www.healthline.com/health/left-handers-and-health-risk 10%], and 10%3 = 0.1%.
|-
| rowspan="2" | 0.2%
| You draw 2 random {{w|Scrabble}} tiles and get M and M
| This appears to be an error. Under standard English {{w|Scrabble letter distribution}} there are 100 tiles of which 2 are M. This would give a probability of randomly drawing M and M as 2/100 × 1/99 ≈ 0.02%. However, other language editions of Scrabble have different letter distributions, some of which could allow this to be true.
|-
| You draw 3 random {{w|M&Ms}} and they're all red
| According to Randall's source, the proportion of reds is 13%.<ref>M&Ms color proportion 13% red 13% brown 14% yellow 16% green 20% orange 24% blue</ref> 0.13^3 ≈ 0.22%.
|-
| 0.3%
| You guess someone's birthday in one try.
| 1/365 ≈ 0.27%. Taking into account that a person might have been born February 29, the probability with a random guess is slightly lower. If the guesser knows on which days there are slightly more births (for example, early October, believed to be because of conceptions occurring on the evening of December 31) and which days there are slightly fewer (for examples, holidays on which a planned, pre-scheduled C-section is unlikely to be held), then the probability is slightly higher.
|-
| rowspan="2" | 0.5%
| An {{w|NBA}} team down by 30 at halftime wins
|
|-
| You get 4 M&Ms and they're all brown or yellow
| Depending on the source of one's M&Ms in the U.S., the proportion of them that is brown or yellow is either 0.25 or 0.259 . 0.25^4≈ 0.39%; 0.259^4 ≈ 0.45% .
|-
| rowspan="2" | 1%
| {{w|Steph Curry}} gets two free throws and misses both
| Curry is a 91% career free throw shooter, so the percentage of missing 1 FT is about 9%. The chance of missing 2 FTs is about 0.8% ≈ 1%.
|-
|{{w|LeBron James}} guesses your birthday, if each guess costs one free throw and he loses if he misses
|
|-
| rowspan="2" | 1.5%
| You get two M&Ms and they're both red
| According to Randall's sources, the probability of a red M&M is about 13%, so the probability of 2 M&Ms being red is (13%)^2 ≈ 1.69%.
|-
| You share a birthday with a {{w|Backstreet Boys|Backstreet Boy}}
|Each of the five Backstreet Boys has a different birthday, so the odds that you share a birthday with one is 5/365.25 ≈ 1.3% .
|-
| 2%
| You guess someone's card on the first try
| There are 52 cards in a normal deck of cards (excluding jokers), so the probability is 1/52, which is approximately 0.019 (1.9%).
|-
| rowspan="2"| 3%
| You guess 5 coin tosses and get them all right
| The chance of correctly predicting a coin toss is 0.5. The chance of predicting 5 in a row is 0.5^5, or 3.125%.
|-
| Steph Curry wins that birthday free throw game
|
|-
| rowspan="3"| 4%
| You sweep a 3-game {{w|rock paper scissors}} series
| Picking randomly, you have a 1 in 3 chance of beating an opponent on the first try. (1/3)3 = 1/27 ≈ 4% .
|-
| {{w|Portland, Oregon}} has a {{w|White Christmas (weather)|white Christmas}}
| According to Randall's source (from the ''Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society''), the probability of snow cover in Portland is 4%.
|-
| You share a birthday with two {{w|US Senator}}s
| At the time this comic was published, 9 days were birthdays for more than one Senator.<ref>Rand Paul (R-KY) and John Thune (R-SD) were both born January 7. 
Patrick Leahy (D-VT) and Angus King (I-MN) were both born March 31. 
Jim Risch (R-ID), Ron Wyden (D-OR) and David Vitter (R-LA) were all born May 3. 
Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) and Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) were both born June 22. 
Bob Corker (R-TN) and Joe Manchin (D-WV) were both born August 24. 
Bill Nelson (D-FL) and Joe Donnelly (D-IA) were both born September 29. 
Mike Rounds (R-SD) and Jeff Merkley (D-OR) were both born October 24. 
Pat Toomey (R-PA) and Jim Inhofe (R-OK) were both born November 17. 
John Boozman (R-AR) and David Perdue (R-GA) were both born December 10.</ref>
|-
| rowspan="2"| 5%
| An NBA team down 20 at halftime wins
|
|-
| You roll a natural 20
| A natural 20 indicates a critical hit in the {{w|Dungeons & Dragons}} role playing game. "Natural" means that it is the number showing when rolling a d20 (a 20-sided die), as opposed to an overall total of 20 when counting the die roll plus modifiers. There are twenty sides to a d20 die. 1/20 = 0.05 = 5%
|-
| 6%
| You correctly guess someone's card given 3 tries
| Picking a random card within 3 times gives 1 - (51/52)(50/51)(49/50) ≈ 6% .
|-
| 7%
| LeBron James gets two free throws and misses both
| James' career FT percentage is 73%, so the probability of a miss is 27%. The probability of 2 misses is (27%)^2, which is about 7%.
|-
| 8%
| You correctly guess someone's card given 4 tries
| Assuming you guess four different cards, 4/52 = 0.0769 ≈ 8% .
|-
| 9%
| Steph Curry misses a free throw
| Curry's career free throw percentage is 91%, so the probability of a miss is 9%.
|-
| rowspan="2"|10%
| You draw 5 cards and get the Ace of Spades
| There are 52 cards in a normal deck of cards (excluding jokers), and the Ace of Spades is one of them. The chances of getting the card is 1 - 51/52 * 50/51 * 49/50 * 48/49 * 47/48 which is approximately 0.096, which rounds to the given 10%. 
|-
| There's a {{w|Moment magnitude scale|magnitude}} 8+ earthquake in the next month
|-
| 11%
| You sweep a 2-game rock paper scissors series
| You have a 1/3 chance of winning the first comparison, and a 1/3 chance of winning the second. (1/3) * (1/3) = 1/9 ~ 0.11 = 11% .
|-
| rowspan="3"|12%
| A randomly-chosen American lives in {{w|California}}
| California is the most populous state in the US. Out of the approximately 328.2 million Americans (as of 2019), 39.51 million live in California. This means that a randomly chosen American has about a 39.51/328.2 ≈ 10.33% of living in California. Due to population change and rounding based on different sources, this could be pushed to 12%.
|-
| You correctly guess someone's card given 6 tries
| Assuming you don't repeat previous wrong guess, the probability is 6/52=3/26 = ~11.54%
|-
| You share a birthday with a {{w|US President}}
| Presidents {{w|James Polk}} and {{w|Warren Harding}} share a birthday, and are the only presidents so far (in 2020) to do so. Additionally, {{w|Grover Cleveland}} served two non-consecutive terms and is counted twice (as the 22nd and 24th presidents). He therefore shares a birthday with himself. With 43 distinct birthdays, the odds of sharing a birthday are 43/365 ≈ 12%. (This does not consider February 29 or that more births occur on some days than others.)
|-
| rowspan="3"|13%
| A {{w|Dice#Polyhedral_dice|d6}} beats a {{w|Dice#Polyhedral_dice|d20}}
| The odds of a d6 beating a d20 are (0 + 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5)/(120) = 0.125 ≈ 13% .
|-
| An NBA team down 10 going into the 4th quarter wins
|
|-
| You pull one M&M from a bag and it's red
| According to Randall's source, the probability of a red M&M is 13%.
|-
| 14%
| A randomly drawn scrabble tile beats a D6 die roll
| {{w|Scrabble}} is a game in which you place lettered tiles to form words. Most of the scores per letter are 1, making it rare to beat a d6. The odds are (70/100)(0) + (7/100)(1/6) + (8/100)(2/6) + (10/100)(3/6) + (1/100)(4/6) + (4/100)(6/6) ≈ 14%.
|-
| 15%
| You roll a D20 and get at least 18
| The set of "at least 18" on a d20 is 18, 19, and 20. The odds of rolling one of these is 3/20 = 15% .
|-
| 16%
| Steph Curry gets two free throws but makes only one
|
|-
| 17%
| You roll a D6 die and get a 6
| The odds are 1/6 ≈ 17% .
|-
| 18%
| A D6 beats or ties a D20
| The odds are (1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6)/(120) = 17.5% .
|-
| 19%
| At least one person in a random pair is left-handed
| The chances of being left handed is about 10%, so the probability of both people in the pair not being left-handed is 0.92=0.81, and 1-0.81=0.19.
|-
| 20%
| You get a dozen M&Ms and none of them are brown
|
|-
| 21%
| {{w|St. Louis}} has a white Christmas
| According to Randall's source, the probability of snow cover in St. Louis is 21%.
|-
| 22%
| An NBA team wins when they're down 10 at halftime
|
|-
| rowspan="2"| 23%
| You get an M&M and it's blue
| According to Randall's source, the "test probability" of a blue M&M is 24%.
|-
| You share a birthday with a US senator
| There are 100 Senators, but 19 Senators share 9 birthdays and 81 Senators have unique birthdays, so there are a total of 90 days of the year that are the birthday of a Senator.
|-
| 24%
| You correctly guess that someone was born in the winter
| The winter lasts ~24% of the year, so ~24% of birthdays are in the winter.
|-
| rowspan="2"| 25%
| You correctly guess that someone was born in the fall
| The fall lasts ~25% of the year, so ~25% of birthdays are in the fall. This statement would also have been true for spring.
|-
| You roll two plain M&Ms and get M and M.
| An M&M can land on one of two sides, one with an M and one without. The odds of "rolling" two Ms is 1/4 = 25%. The term "rolling" is used jokingly in reference to the d6s and d20s above, suggesting that an M&M is a standard d2; this becomes especially true once you consider that a more accurate reference would have been two a coin, not a die.
|-
| 26%
| You correctly guess someone was born in the summer
| The summer lasts ~26% of the year, so ~26% of birthdays are in the summer.
|-
| 27%
| LeBron James misses a free throw
| James' career FT percentage is 73%, so the probability of missing is 27%.
|-
| 32%
| {{w|Pittsburgh}} has a white Christmas
| According to Randall's source, the probability of snow cover in Pittsburgh is 32%.
|-
| rowspan="3"| 33%
| A randomly chosen Star Wars movie (Episodes I-IX) has "of the" in the title
| Episodes II (Attack of the Clones), III (Revenge of the Sith), and VI (Return of the Jedi) are the movies. This gives the odds of 3/9 ≈ 33% .
|-
| You win the Monty Hall sports car by picking a door and refusing to switch
| The {{w|Monty Hall problem}} is a counterintuitive logic problem, in which you pick one of three doors at random. One of the doors has a car behind it, so the odds that you picked the door are 1/3 ≈ 33%. Thus, by not switching doors, your odds remain the same. The Monty Hall problem has previously appeared in [[1282: Monty Hall]] and [[1492: Dress Color]].
|-
| You win rock paper scissors by picking randomly
| The odds of beating an opponent on the first try by picking randomly is 1/3 ≈ 33% .
|-
| 34%
| You draw five cards and get an ace
| The odds are 1 - (48/52)(47/51)(46/50)(45/49)(44/48) ≈ 34% .
|-
| 35%
| A random Scrabble tile is one of the letters in "random"
| The odds of drawing a letter in "random" are (6 + 9 + 6 + 4 + 8 + 2)/100 = 35% .
|-
| 39%
| LeBron James gets two free throws but misses one
|
|-
| 40%
| A random Scrabble tile is a letter in "Steph Curry"
| The odds of drawing a letter in "Steph Curry" are (4 + 6 + 12 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 4 + 6 + 2)/100 = 40% .
|-
| 46%
| There's a magnitude 7 quake in LA within 30 years
|
|-
| rowspan="2"|48%
| {{w|Milwaukee}} has a white Christmas
| According to Randall's source, the probability of snow cover in Milwaukee is 48%.
|-
| A random Scrabble tile is a letter in Carly Rae Jepsen
| The odds of a Scrabble tile being in her name are (2 + 9 + 6 + 4 + 2 + 12 + 1 + 2 + 4 + 6)/100 = 48% .
|-
| 50%
| You get heads in a coin toss
| There are two options in a coin toss, heads or tails, so the odds of getting heads is 50% (1/2).
|-
| 53%
| {{w|Salt Lake City}} has a white Christmas
| According to Randall's source, the probability of snow cover in Salt Lake City is 53%.
|-
| 54%
| LeBron James gets two free throws and makes both
| James' career FT percentage is 73%, so the probability of making 2 FT is (73%)^2 = 53.9%.
|-
| 58%
| A random Scrabble tile is a letter in "Nate Silver"
| {{w|Nate Silver}} is a recurring person on xkcd. The odds of a Scrabble tile being in his name are (6 + 9 + 6 + 12 + 4 + 9 + 4 + 2 + 6)/100 = 58% .
|-
| 60%
| You get two M&Ms and neither is blue
|
|-
| 65%
| {{w|Burlington, Vermont}} has a white Christmas
| According to Randall's source, the probability of snow cover in Burlington is 65%.
|-
| 66%
| A randomly chosen movie from the main Lord of the Rings trilogy has “of the” in the title twice
| The titles are:
* ''The Lord '''of the''' Rings: The Fellowship '''of the''' Ring''
* ''The Lord '''of the''' Rings: The Two Towers''
* ''The Lord '''of the''' Rings: The Return '''of the''' King''
All of them have “of the” at least once, in “The Lord of the Rings”, but only the first and third have it twice, and 2/3 ≈ 66%. This number typically rounds up to 67% , however, and it is unclear why it is not, given that the same reduced fraction is written in the 67% category below.
|-
| 67%
| You roll at least a 3 with a d6
| The set of "at least 3" on a d6 refers to 3, 4, 5, and 6. The odds are 4/6 ≈ 67%.
|-
| 71%
| A random Scrabble tile beats a random dice roll
| This is a typo, as the correct probability is at the 14% entry. A random (d6) die roll beats a random Scrabble tile 71% of the time. [[Randall]] probably meant to write '''A random d6 dice roll''' beats '''a random Scrabble tile'''.
|-
| 73%
| LeBron James makes a free throw
| This is James' career FT percentage, 73%.
|-
| 75%
| You drop two M&Ms and one of them ends with the "M" up so it's clear they're not Skittles
| The odds of at least one 'M' showing up is 1 - (1/4) = 75% . The reference to {{w|Skittles}} is that the two candies look similar to one another, and Randall has probably bit into a Skittle thinking it was an M&M, or vice versa. This trick might prevent that from happening in the future.
|-
| 76%
| You get two M&Ms and neither is red
|
|-
| 77%
| You get an an M&M and it's not blue
|
|-
| 78%
| An NBA team wins when they're up 10 at halftime
|
|-
| 79%
| St. Louis doesn't have a white Christmas
| According to Randall's source, the probability of snow cover in St. Louis is 21%, thus the probability of ''no'' snow cover is 79%.

|-
| 81%
| Two random people are both right-handed
| The probability of 1 person being right-handed is about 90%, thus the probability of 2 right handers is (90%)^2 = 81%.
|-
| 83%
| Steph Curry gets two free throws and makes both
| Curry's career FT percentage is 91%, so the probability of making 2 FTs is (91%)^2 = 82.81%.
|-
| 85%
| You roll a d20 and get at least a 4
| The set "at least 4" on a d20 refers to 4, 5, 6... 18, 19, 20. The odds of this are 17/20 = 85% .
|-
| rowspan="2"| 87%
| An NBA team up by 10 going into the 4th quarter wins
|
|-
| Someone fails to guess your card given 7 tries
|Assuming they guess seven different cards, there are 45 unguessed cards left. 45/52 = 0.865384615 ~ 86.5%
|-
| 88%
| A randomly chosen American lives outside California
| This is the opposite of the previous California probability. As the probability of an American living in California is 12%, the opposite would be 88%.
|-
| 89%
| You roll a 3 or higher given two tries
| The probability of rolling a 3 or higher (on a 6-sided die) is 66%, so the percentage of rolling a 3 or higher given 2 tries is 1 - (1-.66)^2 = 89%.
|-
| 90%
| Someone fails to guess your card given 5 tries
| Assuming they guess five different cards, there are 47 unguessed cards left. 47/52 = 0.90385 ~ 90%
|-
| rowspan="2"| 91%
| You incorrectly guess that someone was born in August
| If the odds of someone being born in August are ~9% , then the odds that a person was not born in August are ~91%. (In an average month, 8 1/3% of the population was born. August has an above average number of days, but still only about 8.5% of the year is in August.)
|-
| Steph Curry makes a free throw
| This is Curry's career FT percentage, 91%.
|-
| 92%
| You guess someone's birth month at random and are wrong
| On average, a month lasts 8 1/3% of the year. Thus, if you were to guess someone's birth month at random, you would be wrong 91 2/3% of the time.
|-
| 93%
| Lebron James makes a free throw given two tries
| James' career FT percentage is 73%, so the percentage of his making at least 1 FT given 2 tries is 1 - (1-.73)^2 = 93%.
|-
| 94%
| Someone fails to guess your card given 3 tries
| The odds of this happening are (51/52)(50/51)(49/50) ≈ 94% .
|-
| 95%
| An NBA team wins when they're up 20 at halftime
|
|-
| 96%
| Someone fails to guess your card given 2 tries
| The odds of this happening are (51/52)(50/51) ≈ 96% .
|-
| 97%
| You try to guess 5 coin tosses and fail
| The odds of this happening are 1 - (1/2)5 ≈ 97% .
|-
| 98%
| You incorrectly guess someone's birthday is this week
| The odds of this happening are about 51/52 ≈ 98%. (This depends on the week; there are more births in early October and fewer in holiday weeks.)
|-
| 98.5%
| An NBA team up 15 points with 8 minutes left wins
|
|-
| 99%
| Steph Curry makes a free throw given two tries
| James' career FT percentage is 91%, so the percentage of his making at least 1 FT given 2 tries is 1 - (1-.91)^2 = 99%.
|-
| 99.5%
| An NBA team that's up by 30 points at halftime wins
|
|-
| 99.7%
| You guess someone's birthday at random and are wrong
| The odds of this are 364/365 ≈ 99.7%.
|-
| 99.8%
| There's not a {{w|Moment magnitude scale|magnitude}} 8 quake in {{w|California}} next year
|
|-
| 99.9%
| A random group of three people contains a right-hander
| About 90% of people are right-handed, so the percentage of at least 1 right-hander in a group of 3 is 1 - (1-.9)^3 = 99.9%.
|-
| 99.99%
| You incorrectly guess the last four digits of someone's social security number
| There are 10 digits in a Social Security Number, but the last four are commonly used as an identity verification factor. The odds of this are 1 - (1/10)4 = 99.99% .
|-
| 99.9999999999999995%
| You pick up a phone, dial a random 10-digit number, and say 'Hello Barack Obama, there's just been a {{w|Moment magnitude scale|magnitude}} 8 earthquake in {{w|California}}!" and are wrong
| In order to get this ''right,'' three things, two highly improbable, would have to happen simultaneously. First you would have to guess one of Barack Obama's phone numbers. (In the United States, where Obama lives and has his office, a '10-digit number' consists of a three digit 'area code' (analagous to a city code in international calling) and a 7-digit local number. Although 1 is the country code for the U.S., it is not counted as one of the 10 digits.) A few of the digits ''could'' be worked out logically - for example, by looking up the area code for the city where he lives or has a home or office, but the text specifies that the entire number is random.) Second, you would have to call that number when there has just been a magnitude 8 earthquake in California (the time interval isn't given, however). Third, he would have to answer the call personally (as opposed to letting a cell phone call go to voice mail, or his secretary, wife, etc., answering his office or home phone).
|-
| 0.00000001%
| You add "Hang on, this is big — I'm going to loop in Carly Rae Jepsen", dial another random 10-digit number, and she picks up
| The odds of a random number being hers would be 1 - (1/10)10 = 0.00000001% if she had only one phone number. However, that is not the probability that "she picks up", because, like Obama, she might either have more than one phone number (increasing the probability) or be letting calls from unknown callers go to voice mail (making the probability zero).
|}

===References===
{{#tag:references}}

==Trivia==
In the original comic, "outside" in the 88% probability section is spelled incorrectly as "outide". In addition, the 39% section had "two free throw" instead of "throws".

The (seemingly unimportant) odds of LeBron James' versus Stephen Curry's free throws and names in Scrabble refer to [[2002: LeBron James and Stephen Curry]].

==Transcript==
<big>Probability Comparisons</big>

0.01% You guess the last four digits of someone's social security number on the first try

0.1% Three randomly chosen people are all left-handed

0.2% You draw 2 random Scrabble tiles and get M and M

You draw 3 random M&Ms and they're all red

0.3% You guess someone's birthday in one try.

0.5% An NBA team down by 30 at halftime wins

You get 4 M&Ms and they're all brown or yellow

1% Steph Curry gets two free throws and misses both

LeBron James guesses your birthday, if each guess costs one free throw and he loses if he misses

1.5% You get two M&Ms and they're both red

You share a birthday with a Backstreet Boy

2% You guess someone's card on the first try

3% You guess 5 coin tosses and get them all right

Steph Curry wins that birthday free throw game

4% You sweep a 3-game rock paper scissors series

Portland, Oregon has a white Christmas

You share a birthday with two US Senators

5% An NBA team down 20 at halftime wins

You roll a natural 20

6% You correctly guess someone's card given 3 tries

7% LeBron James gets two free throws and misses both

8% You correctly guess someone's card given 4 tries

9% Steph Curry misses a free throw

10% You draw 5 cards and get the Ace of Spades

There's a magnitude 8+ earthquake in the next month

11% You sweep a 2-game rock paper scissors series

12% A randomly-chosen American lives in California

You correctly guess someone's card given 6 tries

You share a birthday with a US President

13% A d6 beats a d20

An NBA team down 10 going into the 4th quarter wins

You pull one M&M from a bag and it's red

14% A randomly drawn scrabble tile beats a d6 die roll

15% You roll a d20 and get at least 18

16% Steph Curry gets two free throws but makes only one

17% You roll a d6 die and get a 6

18% A d6 beats or ties a d20

19% At least one person in a random pair is left-handed

20% You get a dozen M&Ms and none of them are brown

21% St. Louis has a white Christmas

22% An NBA team wins when they're down 10 at halftime

23% You get an M&M and it's blue

You share a birthday with a US senator

24% You correctly guess that someone was born in the winter

25% You correctly guess that someone was born in the fall

You roll two plain M&Ms and get M and M.

26% You correctly guess someone was born in the summer

27% LeBron James misses a free throw

32% Pittsburgh has a white Christmas

33% A randomly chosen Star Wars movie (Episodes I-IX) has "of the" in the title

You win the Monty Hall sports car by picking a door and refusing to switch

You win rock paper scissors by picking randomly

34% You draw five cards and get an ace

35% A random Scrabble tile is one of the letters in "random"

39% LeBron James gets two free throws but misses one

40% A random Scrabble tile is a letter in "Steph Curry"

46% There's a magnitude 7 quake in LA within 30 years

48% Milwaukee has a white Christmas

A random Scrabble tile is a letter in Carly Rae Jepsen

50% You get heads in a coin toss

53% Salt Lake City has a white Christmas

54% LeBron James gets two free throws and makes both

58% A random Scrabble tile is a letter in "Nate Silver"

60% You get two M&Ms and neither is blue

65% Burlington, Vermont has a white Christmas

66% A randomly chosen movie from the main Lord of the Rings trilogy has “of the” in the title twice

67% You roll at least a 3 with a d6

71% A random Scrabble tile beats a random dice roll

73% LeBron James makes a free throw

75% You drop two M&Ms and one of them ends with the "M" up so it's clear they're not Skittles

76% You get two M&Ms and neither is red

77% You get an an M&M and it's not blue

78% An NBA team wins when they're up 10 at halftime

79% St. Louis doesn't have a white Christmas

81% Two random people are both right-handed

83% Steph Curry gets two free throws and makes both

85% You roll a d20 and get at least a 4

87% An NBA team up by 10 going into the 4th quarter wins

Someone fails to guess your card given 7 tries

88% A randomly chosen American lives outside California

89% You roll a 3 or higher given two tries

90% Someone fails to guess your card given 5 tries

91% You incorrectly guess that someone was born in August

Steph Curry makes a free throw

92% You guess someone's birth month at random and are wrong

93% Lebron James makes a free throw given two tries

94% Someone fails to guess your card given 3 tries

95% An NBA team wins when they're up 20 at halftime

96% Someone fails to guess your card given 2 tries

97% You try to guess 5 coin tosses and fail

98% You incorrectly guess someone's birthday is this week

98.5% An NBA team up 15 points with 8 minutes left wins

99% Steph Curry makes a free throw given two tries

99.5% An NBA team that's up by 30 points at halftime wins

99.7% You guess someone's birthday at random and are wrong

99.8% There's not a magnitude 8 quake in California next year

99.9% A random group of three people contains a right-hander

99.99% You incorrectly guess the last four digits of someone's social security number

99.9999999999999995% You pick up a phone, dial a random 10-digit number, and say 'Hello Barack Obama, there's just been a magnitude 8 earthquake in California!" and are wrong

0.00000001% You add "Hang on, this is big — I'm going to loop in Carly Rae Jepsen", dial another random 10-digit number, and she picks up

Sources: https://xkcd.com/2379/sources/

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Statistics]]
[[Category:Comics featuring real people]]
[[Category:Comics featuring politicians]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Nate Silver]]
[[Category:Basketball]]
[[Category:Christmas]]
[[Category:Food]]

2377: xkcd Phone 12

2020-10-27T17:55:03Z

JimJJewett: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 2377
| date = October 26, 2020
| title = xkcd Phone 12
| image = xkcd_phone_12.png
| titletext = New phone OS features: Infinite customization (home screen icons no longer snap to grid), dark mode (disables screen), screaming mode (self-explanatory), and coherent ultracapacitor-pumped emission (please let us know what this setting does; we've been afraid to try it).
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a PERSON NAMED MAX. Closed timelike curves need more explanation. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

This is the "12th" (actually the 8th) in the ongoing [[:Category:xkcd Phones|xkcd Phone]] series in which Randall explains his new joke phone designs with many strange and useless features. It is also a reference to the recently released {{w|iPhone 12}}. However, there have only been 8 comics released, with the previous two being [[2000: xkcd Phone 2000]] and [[1889: xkcd Phone 6]].

The note about the xkcd Phone 12 and the xkcd Phone 12 Max (only for people named Max) is a joke about the different models of iPhone 12: iPhone 12, iPhone 12 Mini, iPhone 12 Pro and iPhone 12 Pro Max. The xkcd Phone 12 Max would be expected to have a larger screen, but it seems that this phone is also only for people with the name Max. If the phones are respectively placed, Max's (Maxes'?) phone is the smaller of the two models.

The slogan '"The only phone you'll ever own"' could be interpreted as something of a threat, which is believable given some of the purported features. The slogan has the "registered trademark" symbol, with that symbol supposedly itself trademarked, which is highly unlikely.

Multiple unusual and comedic features are labelled on the phone, detailed below:

* '''Full drivetrain warranty''' - A common warranty feature for automobiles--see {{w|drivetrain}}. As a side note, the phone here would be cheaping out on the warranty if it were a car; a "drivetrain" warranty covers everything ''except'' the engine; only if it was a "{{w|powertrain}}" warranty would it cover the engine. A phone typically has none of these things, although this one seemingly does.
* '''Coated for easy swallowing''' - A common feature on solid medicines meant to be taken orally. Phones do not belong in the set of edible objects, much less orally-taken medicines{{Citation needed}}. Since some parents of young children let them teethe on their phones, this would be an undesirable feature. There may be a pun here, based on the larger smartphones being practically the same as the more {{w|Tablet_computer|minimal portable computers}}.
* '''Surgical-grade apps''' - "Surgical-grade steel" is sometime used as a selling point indicating quality materials. This feature suggests that the apps themselves are made from high-quality material, although this is absurd because an app is (as the name suggests) a software application, not any physical object that could be reasonably defined as 'surgical-grade' or not. Note that both hardware and software can be certified for {{w|Safety-critical_system|safety-critical applications}}.
* '''Built-in 600 lb magnet for magnet fishing''' - {{w|Magnet fishing}} is an activity for searching for objects that can be pulled in by a strong magnet. A 600 pound magnet can lift a 600 pound (272kg) object (at Earth's surface). This would tend to make the phone stick to any iron or steel objects (such as refrigerators) and be impossible to remove with human strength, and only the strongest humans could pick up the phone even if it were properly insulated. It would also be impossible to separate two phones without destroying one of them if the interlocking feature were used. This feature would also erase any credit cards the owner puts in the vicinity of the phone, meaning this phone could not be put in one's pocket with a wallet.
* '''Oral-B partnership: hold phone against teeth to ultrasonically remove plaque''' - This is a reference to {{w|ultrasonic toothbrush}}es. {{w|Oral-B}} does not produce any ultrasonic toothbrushes, but does produce ''{{w|sonic toothbrush}}es.'' There is a logical connection between electric toothbrushes and smartphones, namely they are both electronic and both vibrate; however, most phones cannot perform dentistry autonomously{{Citation needed}}.
* '''40 mL emergency water supply''' - 40 milliliters is equal to 40 cubic centimeters. For comparison, the iPhone 11 Pro Max's volume is just shy of 100 cubic centimeters; if the Phone 12 Max is similarly sized, then the water supply would take up over 40% of its total volume. In this day and age, many phones are water-resistant to some degree; nevertheless, shipping a phone with an interior consisting of a 3:2 ratio of electronics-to-water will surely lead to many short-circuited, inoperable phones. Furthermore, {{w|survival kit}}s often come with pouches that can hold several litres of water, in case of emergency. Because people typically take their phones with them everywhere they go, storing a survival kit inside the phone would be a life-saving feature. Unfortunately, 40cc of water is not enough to stave off thirst for a meaningful amount of time, extinguish a flame much larger than a candle's, or deal with most other situations which would constitute an emergency. Unless you are suitably proficient at {{w|Katara_(Avatar:_The_Last_Airbender)#Waterbending|waterbending}}, this feature is useless for its intended function.
* '''Security feature: unmarked side buttons''' - Some vendors (particularly car dealers) try to explain away horrible User Interface functions as "Security Features". Technically, if no one (including the owner) can use it, it is secure... Some modern phones have unmarked side buttons, so the secureness of this feature is doubtful. This phone is likely to have trillions of buttons though, just to confuse the user. No buttons are visible which could indicate the side of the phone functions is touch sensitive and the buttons are not only unlabeled but not visible.
* '''3,000,000-volt arc allows wireless charging from a range of up to 36 inches''' - {{w|Inductive charging|Induction charging}} is a method that a number of modern phones advertise, allowing power to (inefficiently but 'conveniently') transfer into a device from a mains charging station or another device's battery without the need for plugging in cables. It transfers energy between safely tuned coils, that do not touch, though typically the case of one device must remain placed directly upon the other for the optimal transfer of charge between them. {{w|Electrical_injury#Lethality|Shocks of 11,000 volts are usually lethal}}, so 3,000,000 volts of 'pure' electricity (possibly from a complete {{w|Tesla coil}} assemblage) is pretty much guaranteed to kill you. Worse still, it would render the phone unusable due to the high voltage emitted to any object or bodypart within its large range. The {{w|Electrical breakdown}} voltage of air is approximately 3 kV / mm, which would allow a 3 MV potential to jump a distance of 100 cm. 36 inches (91 cm), however, is within reach of a simple extension cord.
* '''99.9% BPA- and hands- free''' - {{w|Bisphenol A}} (or BPA) is a compound that is used in making plastics. BPA has been found to exhibit hormone-like properties, so there is a movement to produce BPA-free plastics using alternative bisphenols. {{w|Hands-free}} describes using the device "without hands", e.g. using voice commands. This is important when using a device while driving. These are 2 unrelated ideas, which use the suffix "free" in different meanings ("BPA-free" means "containing no BPA", while "hands-free" means "your hands are left free"). The construction "NOUN- and NOUN-ADJ" is normally only used with the meaning of "ADJ" repeated for both nouns, implying that this phone "contains no hands" (or possibly "your BPA is left free"). The "percentage free" description is also a standard form of advertising {{w|weasel word}}s. A food might be described as "90% fat-free" with the heavy implication that it has a tenth of the usual fat content, but likely really means "10% of the product is pure fat" (typically by weight or maybe pre-cooked volume) compared with perhaps 15% in the typical non-'fat-free' recipe. 0.1% of BPA is not an insignificant quantity given its possible effects, and is likely to be a higher leachable content if it is all concentrated in external trimmings. It is unclear what a tenth of a percent of a hand needs to do, to operate the device, but it does also mean that it is not as completely hands-free as implied. Or else it ''also'' implies a trace ingredient in the manufacturing process that should still concern you.
* '''Extended release charge cable''' - Electronics manufacturers support standards to reduce time to fully recharge, e.g. Qualcomm {{w|Quick Charge}} standard. This is a reference to "extended release" medication. It's unclear what purpose would be served by charging a phone slower than normal.
* '''Closed timelike curves''' - This label is applied to the curved corner of the phone. Randall may be making a visual joke by referring to the corner of the phone by a very complex relativistic concept. Given that {{w|Closed timelike curves}} are usually associated with solutions to general relativity that allow for time travel...
* '''Fits in standard shipping container''' - An {{w|intermodal shipping container}} is large enough to fit automobiles, raising the question of just how big this xkcd phone is.
* '''Interlocking, stackable''' - A quality of, among other things, LEGO bricks. Probably a bad idea to use this feature, given how close the phone is to critical mass.
* '''Nintendo partnership: GameBoy Printer compatibility''' - The {{w|Game Boy Printer}} was a thermal paper printer originally paired with the Game Boy Camera. This device was released in 1998 and discontinued in 2003, so this partnership would be obsolete.
* '''Sustain pedal''' - A {{w|sustain pedal}} is commonly associated with a digital keyboard or piano; it lets the note continue sounding when the key is released. It's unclear what purpose it would serve in a phone, although it might be used for the screaming mode in the title text.
* '''CDC partnership: when in an indoor space with too many people, phone begins playing "We Like To Party! (The Vengabus)" at slowly increasing volume until everyone leaves''' - An allusion to the COVID-19 pandemic. In [[2284: Sabotage]], Randall "promised" to bring an annoying karaoke song to a party to hopefully discourage people from attending, but this phone will apparently do so automatically. "{{w|We Like to Party! (Vengaboys song)|We Like To Party! (The Vengabus)}}" is a 1998 Eurodance/techno hit by the Vengaboys, and is perhaps most familiar to Americans from a series of {{w|Six Flags}} ads.
* '''Sacrificial anode''' - Useful if something metal will be in a wet environment for a long time. Commonly used on bridges and boats, but it may be a 'feature' of this phone because of its built-in water reservoir. The {{w|sacrificial anode}} is made of a material with higher redox potential (typically zinc), and will corrode faster than the (more valuable) metal object it's attached to. It's unclear if the phone HAS a sacrificial anode or IS a sacrificial anode.
* '''Tactical helium reserve''' - Since 1925, the United States has had a {{w|National Helium Reserve|strategic helium reserve}}. Helium is very rare on earth and has important scientific and military uses, so it’s important to have a supply in case supplies disappear. But here we have a tactical helium reserve, which suggests it's smaller and focused on shorter-term goals. Compare {{w|strategic bombing}} focused on destroying entire cities or countries and {{w|tactical bombing}} aimed at destroying individual targets or military units. Helium also has the property of being lighter than air, so if this reserve is large enough, the phone could float away if let go. However, this is unlikely, as the phone boasts other, heavy components such as large magnets and a critical mass of fissile material.
* '''50% below critical mass (2x safety factor)''' - Indicates the phone contains fissile material. This "2x safety factor" means that if you put 2 phones next to each other, or put one phone next to a {{w|neutron reflector}}, you would have a {{w|criticality accident}}, which may explain why you would not own another phone after this one. A phone with this much fissile material would pose a radiation hazard. The "2x safety factor" claim may be related to physicist {{w|Richard Feynman|Richard Feynman's}} famous criticism of NASA in the {{w|Rogers Commission}} report on the space shuttle Challenger disaster. Feynman found that when he confronted NASA engineers with a part worn one third of the way through, which was not supposed to be worn through at all, the engineers claimed that this demonstrated a 3x safety factor rather than a failure of the part.
* '''Shake for factory reset''' - A {{w|factory reset}} is often possible on electronic devices, and is usually accomplished either by pressing a button that is often well-protected against accidental contact, for an extended period or closing an electrical bridge. This one works like an {{w|Etch A Sketch|Etch-a-Sketch}}, which would not be preferred, as [http://www.ahajokes.com/com045.html slight disturbances] could easily cause massive losses of data.
* '''Norton MacAfee protection: if you're ever attacked by John MacAfee, Peter Norton will come out of retirement to defend you'''. {{w|Norton (software)|Norton}} and {{w|McAfee}} (note spelling!) are competing software security companies. This "protection" combines the two of them and claims that Norton (the person) will defend you if McAfee (the person) attacks you. May have been inspired by [https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/06/business/mcafee-arrested-tax-evasion.html John McAfee's recent arrest] which brought attention to the allegation that he had hired a hit man to kill his neighbor in Belize in 2012.

The title text mentions xkcd phone OS updates, including:
* '''Infinite customization (home screen icons no longer snap to grid)''' - Whether on-screen icons snap to a grid is a very minor aspect of customization. Not having it would be the ultimate bane of anyone with {{w|obsessive-compulsive disorder}}, as it would make it very difficult to get icons exactly lined up vertically and horizontally.
* '''Dark mode (disables screen)''' - Dark mode is a popular feature on websites/apps with light backgrounds like Twitter and Reddit, changing the background to a dark color to help late-night users sleep better. Disabling the screen would not be a pleasant surprise when a user goes to turn on beloved dark mode. May be impossible to turn off if the screen is no longer touch sensitive when darkened unless the unmarked buttons can be used to disable it. Also a possible reason to want to use the shake-activated factory reset.
* '''Screaming mode (self-explanatory)''' - The phone screams. Reference to the screaming-while-falling [[1363: xkcd Phone|xkcd Phone 1]].
* '''Coherent ultracapacitor-pumped emission (please let us know what this setting does; we've been afraid to try it)''' - This mysterious feature has a terrifying name, with even the developers refusing to test it out. This option would probably be very easy to accidentally tap, given the style of every xkcd Phone ever. Possibly activated with one of the unlabeled buttons making it even more dangerous. Coherent and Emission are associated with laser devices and the use of a laser could justify the helium reserve, and the Ultracapacitor implies a high energy throughput. Raises the question of who designs the phone if the people marketing it don't know what it does.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

* Full drivetrain warranty
* Coated for easy swallowing
* Surgical-grade apps
* Built-in 600 lb magnet for magnet fishing
* Oral-B partnership: hold phone against teeth to ultrasonically remove plaque
* 40 mL emergency water supply
* Security feature: unmarked side buttons
* 3,000,000-volt arc allows wireless charging from a range of up to 36 inches
* 99.9% BPA- and hands- free
* Extended release charge cable
* Closed timelike curves
* Fits in standard shipping container
* Interlocking, stackable
* Nintendo partnership: GameBoy Printer compatibility
* Sustain Pedal
* CDC partnership: when in an indoor space with too many people, phone begins playing "We Like To Party! (The Vengabus)" at slowly increasing volume until everyone leaves
* Sacrificial anode
* Tactical helium reserve
* 50% below critical mass (2x safety factor)
* Shake for factory reset
* Norton MacAfee protection: if you're ever attacked by John MacAfee, Peter Norton will come out of retirement to defend you

The xkcd Phone 12* and 12 Max**

<nowiki>*Standard</nowiki> **For people named Max

"The only phone you'll ever own"®™

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:xkcd Phones]]
[[Category:Comics sharing name|xkcd Phones]]

2377: xkcd Phone 12

2020-10-27T17:54:07Z

JimJJewett: "security feature"

{{comic
| number = 2377
| date = October 26, 2020
| title = xkcd Phone 12
| image = xkcd_phone_12.png
| titletext = New phone OS features: Infinite customization (home screen icons no longer snap to grid), dark mode (disables screen), screaming mode (self-explanatory), and coherent ultracapacitor-pumped emission (please let us know what this setting does; we've been afraid to try it).
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a PERSON NAMED MAX. Closed timelike curves need more explanation. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

This is the "12th" (actually the 8th) in the ongoing [[:Category:xkcd Phones|xkcd Phone]] series in which Randall explains his new joke phone designs with many strange and useless features. It is also a reference to the recently released {{w|iPhone 12}}. However, there have only been 8 comics released, with the previous two being [[2000: xkcd Phone 2000]] and [[1889: xkcd Phone 6]].

The note about the xkcd Phone 12 and the xkcd Phone 12 Max (only for people named Max) is a joke about the different models of iPhone 12: iPhone 12, iPhone 12 Mini, iPhone 12 Pro and iPhone 12 Pro Max. The xkcd Phone 12 Max would be expected to have a larger screen, but it seems that this phone is also only for people with the name Max. If the phones are respectively placed, Max's (Maxes'?) phone is the smaller of the two models.

The slogan '"The only phone you'll ever own"' could be interpreted as something of a threat, which is believable given some of the purported features. The slogan has the "registered trademark" symbol, with that symbol supposedly itself trademarked, which is highly unlikely.

Multiple unusual and comedic features are labelled on the phone, detailed below:

* '''Full drivetrain warranty''' - A common warranty feature for automobiles--see {{w|drivetrain}}. As a side note, the phone here would be cheaping out on the warranty if it were a car; a "drivetrain" warranty covers everything ''except'' the engine; only if it was a "{{w|powertrain}}" warranty would it cover the engine. A phone typically has none of these things, although this one seemingly does.
* '''Coated for easy swallowing''' - A common feature on solid medicines meant to be taken orally. Phones do not belong in the set of edible objects, much less orally-taken medicines{{Citation needed}}. Since some parents of young children let them teethe on their phones, this would be an undesirable feature. There may be a pun here, based on the larger smartphones being practically the same as the more {{w|Tablet_computer|minimal portable computers}}.
* '''Surgical-grade apps''' - "Surgical-grade steel" is sometime used as a selling point indicating quality materials. This feature suggests that the apps themselves are made from high-quality material, although this is absurd because an app is (as the name suggests) a software application, not any physical object that could be reasonably defined as 'surgical-grade' or not. Note that both hardware and software can be certified for {{w|Safety-critical_system|safety-critical applications}}.
* '''Built-in 600 lb magnet for magnet fishing''' - {{w|Magnet fishing}} is an activity for searching for objects that can be pulled in by a strong magnet. A 600 pound magnet can lift a 600 pound (272kg) object (at Earth's surface). This would tend to make the phone stick to any iron or steel objects (such as refrigerators) and be impossible to remove with human strength, and only the strongest humans could pick up the phone even if it were properly insulated. It would also be impossible to separate two phones without destroying one of them if the interlocking feature were used. This feature would also erase any credit cards the owner puts in the vicinity of the phone, meaning this phone could not be put in one's pocket with a wallet.
* '''Oral-B partnership: hold phone against teeth to ultrasonically remove plaque''' - This is a reference to {{w|ultrasonic toothbrush}}es. {{w|Oral-B}} does not produce any ultrasonic toothbrushes, but does produce ''{{w|sonic toothbrush}}es.'' There is a logical connection between electric toothbrushes and smartphones, namely they are both electronic and both vibrate; however, most phones cannot perform dentistry autonomously{{Citation needed}}.
* '''40 mL emergency water supply''' - 40 milliliters is equal to 40 cubic centimeters. For comparison, the iPhone 11 Pro Max's volume is just shy of 100 cubic centimeters; if the Phone 12 Max is similarly sized, then the water supply would take up over 40% of its total volume. In this day and age, many phones are water-resistant to some degree; nevertheless, shipping a phone with an interior consisting of a 3:2 ratio of electronics-to-water will surely lead to many short-circuited, inoperable phones. Furthermore, {{w|survival kit}}s often come with pouches that can hold several litres of water, in case of emergency. Because people typically take their phones with them everywhere they go, storing a survival kit inside the phone would be a life-saving feature. Unfortunately, 40cc of water is not enough to stave off thirst for a meaningful amount of time, extinguish a flame much larger than a candle's, or deal with most other situations which would constitute an emergency. Unless you are suitably proficient at {{w|Katara_(Avatar:_The_Last_Airbender)#Waterbending|waterbending}}, this feature is useless for its intended function.
* '''Security feature: unmarked side buttons''' - Some vendors (particularly car dealers) try to explain away horrible User Interface functions as "Security Features". Technically, if no one (including the owner) can use it, it is secure...
Some modern phones have unmarked side buttons, so the secureness of this feature is doubtful. This phone is likely to have trillions of buttons though, just to confuse the user. No buttons are visible which could indicate the side of the phone functions is touch sensitive and the buttons are not only unlabeled but not visible.
* '''3,000,000-volt arc allows wireless charging from a range of up to 36 inches''' - {{w|Inductive charging|Induction charging}} is a method that a number of modern phones advertise, allowing power to (inefficiently but 'conveniently') transfer into a device from a mains charging station or another device's battery without the need for plugging in cables. It transfers energy between safely tuned coils, that do not touch, though typically the case of one device must remain placed directly upon the other for the optimal transfer of charge between them. {{w|Electrical_injury#Lethality|Shocks of 11,000 volts are usually lethal}}, so 3,000,000 volts of 'pure' electricity (possibly from a complete {{w|Tesla coil}} assemblage) is pretty much guaranteed to kill you. Worse still, it would render the phone unusable due to the high voltage emitted to any object or bodypart within its large range. The {{w|Electrical breakdown}} voltage of air is approximately 3 kV / mm, which would allow a 3 MV potential to jump a distance of 100 cm. 36 inches (91 cm), however, is within reach of a simple extension cord.
* '''99.9% BPA- and hands- free''' - {{w|Bisphenol A}} (or BPA) is a compound that is used in making plastics. BPA has been found to exhibit hormone-like properties, so there is a movement to produce BPA-free plastics using alternative bisphenols. {{w|Hands-free}} describes using the device "without hands", e.g. using voice commands. This is important when using a device while driving. These are 2 unrelated ideas, which use the suffix "free" in different meanings ("BPA-free" means "containing no BPA", while "hands-free" means "your hands are left free"). The construction "NOUN- and NOUN-ADJ" is normally only used with the meaning of "ADJ" repeated for both nouns, implying that this phone "contains no hands" (or possibly "your BPA is left free"). The "percentage free" description is also a standard form of advertising {{w|weasel word}}s. A food might be described as "90% fat-free" with the heavy implication that it has a tenth of the usual fat content, but likely really means "10% of the product is pure fat" (typically by weight or maybe pre-cooked volume) compared with perhaps 15% in the typical non-'fat-free' recipe. 0.1% of BPA is not an insignificant quantity given its possible effects, and is likely to be a higher leachable content if it is all concentrated in external trimmings. It is unclear what a tenth of a percent of a hand needs to do, to operate the device, but it does also mean that it is not as completely hands-free as implied. Or else it ''also'' implies a trace ingredient in the manufacturing process that should still concern you.
* '''Extended release charge cable''' - Electronics manufacturers support standards to reduce time to fully recharge, e.g. Qualcomm {{w|Quick Charge}} standard. This is a reference to "extended release" medication. It's unclear what purpose would be served by charging a phone slower than normal.
* '''Closed timelike curves''' - This label is applied to the curved corner of the phone. Randall may be making a visual joke by referring to the corner of the phone by a very complex relativistic concept. Given that {{w|Closed timelike curves}} are usually associated with solutions to general relativity that allow for time travel...
* '''Fits in standard shipping container''' - An {{w|intermodal shipping container}} is large enough to fit automobiles, raising the question of just how big this xkcd phone is.
* '''Interlocking, stackable''' - A quality of, among other things, LEGO bricks. Probably a bad idea to use this feature, given how close the phone is to critical mass.
* '''Nintendo partnership: GameBoy Printer compatibility''' - The {{w|Game Boy Printer}} was a thermal paper printer originally paired with the Game Boy Camera. This device was released in 1998 and discontinued in 2003, so this partnership would be obsolete.
* '''Sustain pedal''' - A {{w|sustain pedal}} is commonly associated with a digital keyboard or piano; it lets the note continue sounding when the key is released. It's unclear what purpose it would serve in a phone, although it might be used for the screaming mode in the title text.
* '''CDC partnership: when in an indoor space with too many people, phone begins playing "We Like To Party! (The Vengabus)" at slowly increasing volume until everyone leaves''' - An allusion to the COVID-19 pandemic. In [[2284: Sabotage]], Randall "promised" to bring an annoying karaoke song to a party to hopefully discourage people from attending, but this phone will apparently do so automatically. "{{w|We Like to Party! (Vengaboys song)|We Like To Party! (The Vengabus)}}" is a 1998 Eurodance/techno hit by the Vengaboys, and is perhaps most familiar to Americans from a series of {{w|Six Flags}} ads.
* '''Sacrificial anode''' - Useful if something metal will be in a wet environment for a long time. Commonly used on bridges and boats, but it may be a 'feature' of this phone because of its built-in water reservoir. The {{w|sacrificial anode}} is made of a material with higher redox potential (typically zinc), and will corrode faster than the (more valuable) metal object it's attached to. It's unclear if the phone HAS a sacrificial anode or IS a sacrificial anode.
* '''Tactical helium reserve''' - Since 1925, the United States has had a {{w|National Helium Reserve|strategic helium reserve}}. Helium is very rare on earth and has important scientific and military uses, so it’s important to have a supply in case supplies disappear. But here we have a tactical helium reserve, which suggests it's smaller and focused on shorter-term goals. Compare {{w|strategic bombing}} focused on destroying entire cities or countries and {{w|tactical bombing}} aimed at destroying individual targets or military units. Helium also has the property of being lighter than air, so if this reserve is large enough, the phone could float away if let go. However, this is unlikely, as the phone boasts other, heavy components such as large magnets and a critical mass of fissile material.
* '''50% below critical mass (2x safety factor)''' - Indicates the phone contains fissile material. This "2x safety factor" means that if you put 2 phones next to each other, or put one phone next to a {{w|neutron reflector}}, you would have a {{w|criticality accident}}, which may explain why you would not own another phone after this one. A phone with this much fissile material would pose a radiation hazard. The "2x safety factor" claim may be related to physicist {{w|Richard Feynman|Richard Feynman's}} famous criticism of NASA in the {{w|Rogers Commission}} report on the space shuttle Challenger disaster. Feynman found that when he confronted NASA engineers with a part worn one third of the way through, which was not supposed to be worn through at all, the engineers claimed that this demonstrated a 3x safety factor rather than a failure of the part.
* '''Shake for factory reset''' - A {{w|factory reset}} is often possible on electronic devices, and is usually accomplished either by pressing a button that is often well-protected against accidental contact, for an extended period or closing an electrical bridge. This one works like an {{w|Etch A Sketch|Etch-a-Sketch}}, which would not be preferred, as [http://www.ahajokes.com/com045.html slight disturbances] could easily cause massive losses of data.
* '''Norton MacAfee protection: if you're ever attacked by John MacAfee, Peter Norton will come out of retirement to defend you'''. {{w|Norton (software)|Norton}} and {{w|McAfee}} (note spelling!) are competing software security companies. This "protection" combines the two of them and claims that Norton (the person) will defend you if McAfee (the person) attacks you. May have been inspired by [https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/06/business/mcafee-arrested-tax-evasion.html John McAfee's recent arrest] which brought attention to the allegation that he had hired a hit man to kill his neighbor in Belize in 2012.

The title text mentions xkcd phone OS updates, including:
* '''Infinite customization (home screen icons no longer snap to grid)''' - Whether on-screen icons snap to a grid is a very minor aspect of customization. Not having it would be the ultimate bane of anyone with {{w|obsessive-compulsive disorder}}, as it would make it very difficult to get icons exactly lined up vertically and horizontally.
* '''Dark mode (disables screen)''' - Dark mode is a popular feature on websites/apps with light backgrounds like Twitter and Reddit, changing the background to a dark color to help late-night users sleep better. Disabling the screen would not be a pleasant surprise when a user goes to turn on beloved dark mode. May be impossible to turn off if the screen is no longer touch sensitive when darkened unless the unmarked buttons can be used to disable it. Also a possible reason to want to use the shake-activated factory reset.
* '''Screaming mode (self-explanatory)''' - The phone screams. Reference to the screaming-while-falling [[1363: xkcd Phone|xkcd Phone 1]].
* '''Coherent ultracapacitor-pumped emission (please let us know what this setting does; we've been afraid to try it)''' - This mysterious feature has a terrifying name, with even the developers refusing to test it out. This option would probably be very easy to accidentally tap, given the style of every xkcd Phone ever. Possibly activated with one of the unlabeled buttons making it even more dangerous. Coherent and Emission are associated with laser devices and the use of a laser could justify the helium reserve, and the Ultracapacitor implies a high energy throughput. Raises the question of who designs the phone if the people marketing it don't know what it does.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

* Full drivetrain warranty
* Coated for easy swallowing
* Surgical-grade apps
* Built-in 600 lb magnet for magnet fishing
* Oral-B partnership: hold phone against teeth to ultrasonically remove plaque
* 40 mL emergency water supply
* Security feature: unmarked side buttons
* 3,000,000-volt arc allows wireless charging from a range of up to 36 inches
* 99.9% BPA- and hands- free
* Extended release charge cable
* Closed timelike curves
* Fits in standard shipping container
* Interlocking, stackable
* Nintendo partnership: GameBoy Printer compatibility
* Sustain Pedal
* CDC partnership: when in an indoor space with too many people, phone begins playing "We Like To Party! (The Vengabus)" at slowly increasing volume until everyone leaves
* Sacrificial anode
* Tactical helium reserve
* 50% below critical mass (2x safety factor)
* Shake for factory reset
* Norton MacAfee protection: if you're ever attacked by John MacAfee, Peter Norton will come out of retirement to defend you

The xkcd Phone 12* and 12 Max**

<nowiki>*Standard</nowiki> **For people named Max

"The only phone you'll ever own"®™

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:xkcd Phones]]
[[Category:Comics sharing name|xkcd Phones]]

2372: Dialect Quiz

2020-10-15T18:50:53Z

JimJJewett: /* Explanation */ paragraph break

{{comic
| number = 2372
| date = October 14, 2020
| title = Dialect Quiz
| image = dialect_quiz.png
| titletext = Do you make a distinction between shallots, scallops, and scallions? If you use all three words, do they all have different meanings, all the same, or are two the same and one different?
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a LIGHTBULB EATER. Please mention here why this explanation isn't complete. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

This comic is a parody of online quizzes that offer to compare the user's dialect of American English with others around the country. These quizzes generally contain questions about word usage, names for certain objects, and pronunciations that vary between different regions of the US. There are also quizzes about broader English dialects, but this comic focuses on commonly cited differences between American dialects.

The earliest quiz of this type to be widely disseminated online was the [http://dialect.redlog.net/ Harvard Dialect Survey], conducted in the early 2000s by Bert Vaux and Scott Golder. The survey created maps of the distribution of various word usage (such as pop/soda/Coke for a fizzy drink) and was a relatively early example of widely shared Internet "viral" content. In 2013, Josh Katz of the New York Times created [https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/upshot/dialect-quiz-map.html a new version] based on the Harvard survey, which became the Times' [https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/01/-em-the-new-york-times-em-most-popular-story-of-2013-was-not-an-article/283167/ most popular content of 2013] and spread the idea to many more people. Many of the questions in this comic directly derive from entries in those surveys.

Randall's previous two comics have been about election predictions, leading up to the 2020 US General Presidential Election. A prominent predictor of the election results is Nate Silver, who runs the FiveThirtyEight website. [https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1315348221565206530 @NateSilver538 posted his results] of taking the New York Times version of the survey on October 11, 2020... just three days before this comic was posted. [[2371: Election Screen Time]] specifically suggests that Randall may be spending too much time obsessing over new posts and content from the election predictors. It's coincidental, but likely, that Nate Silver's tweet inspired Randall's post: he was reminded of the 2013 feature from the Times.

{| border =1 width=100% cellpadding=5 class="wikitable"
! # !! Question !! Answers !! Explanation
|-
! 1
| How do you address a group of two or more people?
|
* A) You
* B) Y'all
* C) I have not been around two or more people for so long that I can't remember
| Reference to the first question of the Times quiz: "How would you address {{w|You#Informal_plural_forms|a group of two or more people}}?" (with options including "you all", "you guys", "y'all", etc.). Option C may reference the significant decrease in human interaction and social contact during the COVID-19 pandemic. Alternatively, it may suggest that some xkcd readers are particularly introverted.
|-
! 2
| How do you pronounce "Penelope"?
|
* A) Rhymes with "Antelope"
* B) Rhymes with "Develop"
| Both the options for this are wrong, making it the first of many quiz questions it is impossible to answer correctly.

Neither Option A's "PEN-e-lohp" /ˈpɛnɪˌloʊp/ and Option B's "pe-NELL-up" /pɪˈnɛləp/ are a typical pronunciation of this name (beyond mispronunciations). In English, the only correct way to pronounce this name is "pe-NELL-o-pee" /pəˈnɛləpi/, which is not listed. (Penelope is a proper name, but usually encountered in literature rather than as the name of a neighbor, and is therefore less subject to dialect shifts.)
|-
! 3
| What do you call the scientific field that studies the stars?
|
* A) Astrology
* B) Agronomy
* C) Cosmetology
| The actual answer is {{w|Astronomy}}, which is not listed. {{w|Astrology}} is the pseudo-scientific "study" of the influence of the stars and planets on our lives, including horoscopes (often confused with Astronomy due to its similar name), {{w|Agronomy}} ''is'' scientific but instead studies agriculture, and {{w|Cosmetology}} is the study of cosmetics and makeup (with a name close to {{w|Cosmology}}, a branch of Astronomy). The last may also be referring to the (occasionally makeup-heavy) faces of movie and television "stars".
|-
! 4
| How do you pronounce "genre"?
|
* A) Gone-ra
* B) Juh-neer
* C) Jen-er-uh
| Reference to a question found on some quizzes: "How do you pronounce ''genre''? ZHAHN-ruh, or JAHN-ruh?"

A majority of (American) English speakers pronounce "genre" as either "'''ZH'''AHN-ruh" /ˈʒɑnrə/ (beginning with the "zh" sound found in "trea'''s'''ure") or "'''J'''AHN-ruh" /ˈdʒɑnrə/ (beginning with the "j" sound in "justice"). Neither of these are listed, and none of the quiz's pronunciation options are common. However, they are close to other words: ''GONE-ra'' /ˈgɑnrə/ sounds like {{w|gonorrhea}} /ˌgɑnəˈriə/, ''juh-NEER'' /dʒəˈnɪər/ is the way the second and third syllables of ''engineer'' are are pronounced, and ''JEN-er-uh'' /ˈdʒɛnərə/ is a word (genera), the plural of {{w|genus}}.
|-
! 5
| You pronounce "Google" with a high-pitched yelp on the...
|
* A) First syllable
* B) Second syllable
| Reference to general questions regarding differences in pronunciation of words. "Google" is not generally pronounced with a high-pitched yelp on either syllable.{{Citation needed}} {{w|Yahoo!}}, on the other hand, has advertised its services with a [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm5FE0x9eY0 high-pitched yodeling jingle], with the high-pitched yelp on the second syllable (as opposed to {{w|Goofy}}'s [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-70mtXw35c iconic holler], with the high yelp on the first syllable).
|-
! 6
| What do you call the thing on the wall at school that you drink water from?
|
* A) Gutter pipe
* B) Drainpipe
| Reference to a quiz question in the Harvard and Times quizzes, "What do you call the thing from which you might drink water in a school?" Answers included "drinking fountain", "water fountain", and "bubbler". However, the question in this comic implies that school children (or at least the quiz maker) drink out of {{w|Rain gutter|gutter pipes}} or drain pipes, which are used to collect rainwater and/or {{w|sewage|should absolutely not be drunk from.}}
|-
! 7
| How do you pronounce the name for a short silent video file?
|
* A) Animated give
* B) Animated gift
| Reference to the "{{w|Gif}}" pronunciation debate, with people split between pronouncing it "gif" (with the hard G sound in "graphics") or "jif" (with the soft G sound in "giraffe"). Both options presented in this quiz use the hard G sound, but neither option uses the commonly-agreed on pronunciation for the ending of the word, “if”.
|-
! 8
| What do you call the baseball-sized garden bugs that, when poked, glow brightly and emit a warbling scream?
|
* A) What?
* B) Lawn buddies
| Reference to a question in the Harvard and Times quizzes: "What do you call the {{w|Armadillidiidae|small gray bug}} that curls up into a ball when it’s touched?" (options include "roly-poly," "pill-bug", "potato bug", "doodle bug", etc.). Another question common to these sorts of quizzes regards the {{w|Firefly|Lampyridae}} family of bioluminescent insects, variously called "fireflies," "glowworms," or "lightning bugs" (although these insects emit their light spontaneously, as a mating signal, and not in response to external stimuli such as being poked). However, there are no common "baseball-sized garden bugs," let alone bioluminescent ones that emit a warbling scream,{{Citation needed}} though a {{w|Madagascar_hissing_cockroach|cockroach}} that can approach this size does famously make a loud noise. May also be a reference to what "potato bug" means to people in the eastern part of the United States and {{w|Jerusalem cricket|what it means}} to people in the western part of the United States.
|-
! 9
| What do you call the misleading lines painted by disgruntled highway workers to trick cars into driving off the road?
|
* A) Prank lines
* B) Devil's Marks
* C) Fool-me lines
* D) Fauxguides
* E) Delaware lines
| Reference to the fact that some quiz questions ask about road features, such as "verge/berm/parking strip/curb strip" and "roundabout/traffic circle". However, these particular road lines, if they have ever been made, aren't common enough to warrant different names. The Delaware Line was a formation within the Continental Army. May also just be a dig at Delaware.

Misleading lines on the road were also mentioned in [[1958: Self-Driving Issues]].
|-
! 10
| What do you call the blue-green planet in the outer Solar System?
|
* A) Uranus
* B) Neptune
| This question references the two common pronunciations of Uranus: "YURR-ə-nəss" and "yoo-RAY-nəss" (which sounds like the phrase "{{tvtropes|UranusIsShowing|Your anus}}", a favorite joke of little kids). The original pronunciation is "oo-ra-noos", both u's pronounced the same way, but this is not a common pronunciation among the general public. It also references the fact that Uranus and Neptune are both blue-ish colored planets in the outer solar system and are often confused by people who don't know much about them. Uranus is closer to being the correct answer - it could plausibly be described as cyan, a color intermediate between blue and green - while Neptune is a deep, unambiguous blue.
|-
! 11
| What do you call this tool?
[[File:CloveHammer.png|150px]] (image of a claw hammer)
|
* A) Banger
* B) Nail axe
* C) Wood mage wand
* D) I'm familiar with this tool but have no specific word for it
* E) I have never seen it before
| The only name most people would ever call this tool is a "hammer".

The last two options reference options in many quiz questions along the lines of "I'm familiar with this but have no specific word for it" and "I am not familiar with this" (such as on the pill-bug/roly-poly question on the real quiz). These may appear as options to questions that ask about something that might not exist everywhere, or something which many may not have a word for (for example, some areas of the United States have a name for "sunshowers," while most don't). However, it's a bit absurd for these options to be present for this question (and this question alone), as most users would be expected to know what a hammer is. This also serves as a bit of reverse perspective on "When the only the only tool you have is a hammer ..."
|-
! 12
| What do you call a long sandwich with meats and lettuce and stuff?
|
* A) A long sandwich with meats and lettuce and stuff
* B) A longwich
* C) A salad hot dog
| Reference to a common dialect quiz question: "What do you call a {{w|Submarine sandwich|long sandwich}}?" with options typically including "sub", "hoagie", "hero", etc.

The hot dog answer could refer to the common online discussion: "Is a hot dog a sandwich?"
|-
! 13
| What do you call the scaly many-legged animal often found in attics?
|
* A) Lightbulb eater
* B) I have no special name for them
* C) I've never looked in my attic
| Another reference to the frequent appearance of quiz questions asking what users call various creepy crawlies.

{{w|Millipedes}} best fit the description. They have many legs, though rarely if ever a thousand of them, as their name (from the Greek for "thousand feet") suggests. The hard rings that separate an individual's body into segments give the animal a scaly appearance. And of the thousands of species, only a few have common names, hence "no special name for them". The reference to "lightbulb eater" is obscure, but may refer to the tendency of millipedes to congregate in large numbers in dark crevices. Perhaps Randall found some in empty (no bulb) light fixtures in his attic.

Or maybe it is just the sort of spooky monster that lives in the dark and makes you afraid to check the attic (or basement).
|-
! 14
| What do you say when someone around you sneezes?
|
* A) "What was that?"
* B) "Oh, wow."
* C) [Quietly] "Yikes."
| Reference to a question on some quizzes about which of several words/phrases you say in response to a sneeze, with usual answers including "bless you", "God bless you", and "{{w|Gesundheit}}" (from the German word for 'health').

This question may also be referencing the {{w|COVID-19 pandemic}} in answer C (and possibly answer B). Sneezing isn't a primary symptom of COVID-19, but most people are hyper-aware of possibly contracting the disease from the people around them so sneezes are treated with suspicion and it's seen as rude to sneeze openly.

It is also possible that a person who has been able to catch a sneeze-producing condition has also caught COVID-19 and, while the sneeze itself isn't ''caused'' by it, the air and various airway fluids so forcefully projected are a possible infective vector with that little extra frisson of concern, given the current situation.
|-
! Title Text
| colspan=2 | Do you make a distinction between shallots, scallops, and scallions? If you use all three words, do they all have different meanings, all the same, or are two the same and one different?
| Phrased similarly to questions like, on the Times quiz, "How do you pronounce the words Mary, merry, and marry?" Options included "all three are pronounced the same", "all three are pronounced differently," or all three combinations of two being the same and one different. Refers to the naming confusion around {{w|scallions}} and {{w|shallots}} - also known as 'eschalots' - but with the unrelated but similar-sounding {{w|scallops}} substituted in the middle.

'Shallots', 'scallions' and 'eschalots' are names used in different dialects, for various species and cultivars of onion used in cooking, either as a small bulb (especially [[wikipedia:shallot|Allium cepa var. Aggregatum]]) or as a green leaf (especially [[wikipedia:Allium_fistulosum|Allium fistulosum]]). In many dialects, the green leaf type is called a 'scallion' and the bulb a 'shallot'. In at least one dialect (NSW Australia) the green leaf type is called a 'shallot' and the bulb an 'eschalot'. This causes confusion in recipes posted online. The word 'shallot' is also pronounced with emphasis on either the first or second syllable, as refered to in question 5. Despite the answer options offered, there is no evidence of dialects which use all three terms, or where 'shallot' and 'scallion' are interchangeable.

{{w|Scallops}} are invertebrate marine animals similar to oysters and clams, frequently harvested for food. In some regions of the UK and Australia potato {{w|fritters}} are also called 'scallops'. The word 'scallop' itself can be pronounced either as /ˈskɒləp/ or /ˈskæləp/, and its spelling has varied over time in a similar way to that of 'shallot'. However, these are difficult to confuse with shallots or scallions.
|}

==Transcript==

[Box with title at the top]
:<big>Dialect Quiz</big>
[Smaller subtitle underneath]
:Compare answers with your friends!

[Quiz is divided into two columns. Answers to questions are indicated by a letter followed by a closed parentheses, such as A). These letters are greyed out]

[Column 1:]
 
How do you address a group of two or more people?
:A) You
:B) Y'all
:C) I have not been around two or more people for so long that I can't remember

How do you pronounce "Penelope"?
:A) Rhymes with "Antelope"
:B) Rhymes with "Develop"

What do you call the scientific field that studies the stars?
:A) Astrology
:B) Agronomy
:C) Cosmetology

How do you pronounce "genre"?
:A) Gone-ra
:B) Juh-neer
:C) Jen-er-uh

You pronounce "Google" with a high-pitched yelp on the...
:A) First syllable
:B) Second syllable

What do you call the thing on the wall at school that you drink water from?
:A) Gutter pipe
:B) Drainpipe

How do you pronounce the name for a short silent video file?
:A) Animated give
:B) Animated gift

What do you call the baseball-sized garden bugs that, when poked, glow brightly and emit a warbling scream?
:A) What?
:B) Lawn buddies

[Column 2:]
 
What do you call the misleading lines painted by disgruntled highway workers to trick cars into driving off the road?
:A) Prank lines
:B) Devil's Marks
:C) Fool-me lines
:D) Fauxguides
:E) Delaware lines

What do you call the blue-green planet in the outer Solar System?
:A) Uranus
:B) Neptune

What do you call this tool?
 
[Image of a claw hammer]
:A) Banger
:B) Nail axe
:C) Wood mage wand
:D) I'm familiar with this tool but have no specific word for it
:E) I have never seen it before

What do you call a long sandwich with meats and lettuce and stuff?
:A) A long sandwich with meats and lettuce and stuff
:B) A longwich
:C) A salad hot dog

What do you call the scaly many-legged animal often found in attics?
:A) Lightbulb eater
:B) I have no special name for them
:C) I've never looked in my attic

What do you say when someone around you sneezes?
:A) "What was that?"
:B) "Oh, wow."
:C) [Quietly] "Yikes."

==Trivia==

*The xkcd Twitter account posted a [https://twitter.com/xkcd/status/1316484953480323072 series of Twitter polls] asking the questions in this comic.
*Shallots, scallops, and scallions ran against each other in [[1529: Bracket]]

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Language]]
[[Category:COVID-19]]

2372: Dialect Quiz

2020-10-15T18:49:33Z

JimJJewett: /* Explanation */ spooky monster

{{comic
| number = 2372
| date = October 14, 2020
| title = Dialect Quiz
| image = dialect_quiz.png
| titletext = Do you make a distinction between shallots, scallops, and scallions? If you use all three words, do they all have different meanings, all the same, or are two the same and one different?
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a LIGHTBULB EATER. Please mention here why this explanation isn't complete. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

This comic is a parody of online quizzes that offer to compare the user's dialect of American English with others around the country. These quizzes generally contain questions about word usage, names for certain objects, and pronunciations that vary between different regions of the US. There are also quizzes about broader English dialects, but this comic focuses on commonly cited differences between American dialects.

The earliest quiz of this type to be widely disseminated online was the [http://dialect.redlog.net/ Harvard Dialect Survey], conducted in the early 2000s by Bert Vaux and Scott Golder. The survey created maps of the distribution of various word usage (such as pop/soda/Coke for a fizzy drink) and was a relatively early example of widely shared Internet "viral" content. In 2013, Josh Katz of the New York Times created [https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/upshot/dialect-quiz-map.html a new version] based on the Harvard survey, which became the Times' [https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/01/-em-the-new-york-times-em-most-popular-story-of-2013-was-not-an-article/283167/ most popular content of 2013] and spread the idea to many more people. Many of the questions in this comic directly derive from entries in those surveys.

Randall's previous two comics have been about election predictions, leading up to the 2020 US General Presidential Election. A prominent predictor of the election results is Nate Silver, who runs the FiveThirtyEight website. [https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1315348221565206530 @NateSilver538 posted his results] of taking the New York Times version of the survey on October 11, 2020... just three days before this comic was posted. [[2371: Election Screen Time]] specifically suggests that Randall may be spending too much time obsessing over new posts and content from the election predictors. It's coincidental, but likely, that Nate Silver's tweet inspired Randall's post: he was reminded of the 2013 feature from the Times.

{| border =1 width=100% cellpadding=5 class="wikitable"
! # !! Question !! Answers !! Explanation
|-
! 1
| How do you address a group of two or more people?
|
* A) You
* B) Y'all
* C) I have not been around two or more people for so long that I can't remember
| Reference to the first question of the Times quiz: "How would you address {{w|You#Informal_plural_forms|a group of two or more people}}?" (with options including "you all", "you guys", "y'all", etc.). Option C may reference the significant decrease in human interaction and social contact during the COVID-19 pandemic. Alternatively, it may suggest that some xkcd readers are particularly introverted.
|-
! 2
| How do you pronounce "Penelope"?
|
* A) Rhymes with "Antelope"
* B) Rhymes with "Develop"
| Both the options for this are wrong, making it the first of many quiz questions it is impossible to answer correctly.

Neither Option A's "PEN-e-lohp" /ˈpɛnɪˌloʊp/ and Option B's "pe-NELL-up" /pɪˈnɛləp/ are a typical pronunciation of this name (beyond mispronunciations). In English, the only correct way to pronounce this name is "pe-NELL-o-pee" /pəˈnɛləpi/, which is not listed. (Penelope is a proper name, but usually encountered in literature rather than as the name of a neighbor, and is therefore less subject to dialect shifts.)
|-
! 3
| What do you call the scientific field that studies the stars?
|
* A) Astrology
* B) Agronomy
* C) Cosmetology
| The actual answer is {{w|Astronomy}}, which is not listed. {{w|Astrology}} is the pseudo-scientific "study" of the influence of the stars and planets on our lives, including horoscopes (often confused with Astronomy due to its similar name), {{w|Agronomy}} ''is'' scientific but instead studies agriculture, and {{w|Cosmetology}} is the study of cosmetics and makeup (with a name close to {{w|Cosmology}}, a branch of Astronomy). The last may also be referring to the (occasionally makeup-heavy) faces of movie and television "stars".
|-
! 4
| How do you pronounce "genre"?
|
* A) Gone-ra
* B) Juh-neer
* C) Jen-er-uh
| Reference to a question found on some quizzes: "How do you pronounce ''genre''? ZHAHN-ruh, or JAHN-ruh?"

A majority of (American) English speakers pronounce "genre" as either "'''ZH'''AHN-ruh" /ˈʒɑnrə/ (beginning with the "zh" sound found in "trea'''s'''ure") or "'''J'''AHN-ruh" /ˈdʒɑnrə/ (beginning with the "j" sound in "justice"). Neither of these are listed, and none of the quiz's pronunciation options are common. However, they are close to other words: ''GONE-ra'' /ˈgɑnrə/ sounds like {{w|gonorrhea}} /ˌgɑnəˈriə/, ''juh-NEER'' /dʒəˈnɪər/ is the way the second and third syllables of ''engineer'' are are pronounced, and ''JEN-er-uh'' /ˈdʒɛnərə/ is a word (genera), the plural of {{w|genus}}.
|-
! 5
| You pronounce "Google" with a high-pitched yelp on the...
|
* A) First syllable
* B) Second syllable
| Reference to general questions regarding differences in pronunciation of words. "Google" is not generally pronounced with a high-pitched yelp on either syllable.{{Citation needed}} {{w|Yahoo!}}, on the other hand, has advertised its services with a [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm5FE0x9eY0 high-pitched yodeling jingle], with the high-pitched yelp on the second syllable (as opposed to {{w|Goofy}}'s [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-70mtXw35c iconic holler], with the high yelp on the first syllable).
|-
! 6
| What do you call the thing on the wall at school that you drink water from?
|
* A) Gutter pipe
* B) Drainpipe
| Reference to a quiz question in the Harvard and Times quizzes, "What do you call the thing from which you might drink water in a school?" Answers included "drinking fountain", "water fountain", and "bubbler". However, the question in this comic implies that school children (or at least the quiz maker) drink out of {{w|Rain gutter|gutter pipes}} or drain pipes, which are used to collect rainwater and/or {{w|sewage|should absolutely not be drunk from.}}
|-
! 7
| How do you pronounce the name for a short silent video file?
|
* A) Animated give
* B) Animated gift
| Reference to the "{{w|Gif}}" pronunciation debate, with people split between pronouncing it "gif" (with the hard G sound in "graphics") or "jif" (with the soft G sound in "giraffe"). Both options presented in this quiz use the hard G sound, but neither option uses the commonly-agreed on pronunciation for the ending of the word, “if”.
|-
! 8
| What do you call the baseball-sized garden bugs that, when poked, glow brightly and emit a warbling scream?
|
* A) What?
* B) Lawn buddies
| Reference to a question in the Harvard and Times quizzes: "What do you call the {{w|Armadillidiidae|small gray bug}} that curls up into a ball when it’s touched?" (options include "roly-poly," "pill-bug", "potato bug", "doodle bug", etc.). Another question common to these sorts of quizzes regards the {{w|Firefly|Lampyridae}} family of bioluminescent insects, variously called "fireflies," "glowworms," or "lightning bugs" (although these insects emit their light spontaneously, as a mating signal, and not in response to external stimuli such as being poked). However, there are no common "baseball-sized garden bugs," let alone bioluminescent ones that emit a warbling scream,{{Citation needed}} though a {{w|Madagascar_hissing_cockroach|cockroach}} that can approach this size does famously make a loud noise. May also be a reference to what "potato bug" means to people in the eastern part of the United States and {{w|Jerusalem cricket|what it means}} to people in the western part of the United States.
|-
! 9
| What do you call the misleading lines painted by disgruntled highway workers to trick cars into driving off the road?
|
* A) Prank lines
* B) Devil's Marks
* C) Fool-me lines
* D) Fauxguides
* E) Delaware lines
| Reference to the fact that some quiz questions ask about road features, such as "verge/berm/parking strip/curb strip" and "roundabout/traffic circle". However, these particular road lines, if they have ever been made, aren't common enough to warrant different names. The Delaware Line was a formation within the Continental Army. May also just be a dig at Delaware.

Misleading lines on the road were also mentioned in [[1958: Self-Driving Issues]].
|-
! 10
| What do you call the blue-green planet in the outer Solar System?
|
* A) Uranus
* B) Neptune
| This question references the two common pronunciations of Uranus: "YURR-ə-nəss" and "yoo-RAY-nəss" (which sounds like the phrase "{{tvtropes|UranusIsShowing|Your anus}}", a favorite joke of little kids). The original pronunciation is "oo-ra-noos", both u's pronounced the same way, but this is not a common pronunciation among the general public. It also references the fact that Uranus and Neptune are both blue-ish colored planets in the outer solar system and are often confused by people who don't know much about them. Uranus is closer to being the correct answer - it could plausibly be described as cyan, a color intermediate between blue and green - while Neptune is a deep, unambiguous blue.
|-
! 11
| What do you call this tool?
[[File:CloveHammer.png|150px]] (image of a claw hammer)
|
* A) Banger
* B) Nail axe
* C) Wood mage wand
* D) I'm familiar with this tool but have no specific word for it
* E) I have never seen it before
| The only name most people would ever call this tool is a "hammer".

The last two options reference options in many quiz questions along the lines of "I'm familiar with this but have no specific word for it" and "I am not familiar with this" (such as on the pill-bug/roly-poly question on the real quiz). These may appear as options to questions that ask about something that might not exist everywhere, or something which many may not have a word for (for example, some areas of the United States have a name for "sunshowers," while most don't). However, it's a bit absurd for these options to be present for this question (and this question alone), as most users would be expected to know what a hammer is. This also serves as a bit of reverse perspective on "When the only the only tool you have is a hammer ..."
|-
! 12
| What do you call a long sandwich with meats and lettuce and stuff?
|
* A) A long sandwich with meats and lettuce and stuff
* B) A longwich
* C) A salad hot dog
| Reference to a common dialect quiz question: "What do you call a {{w|Submarine sandwich|long sandwich}}?" with options typically including "sub", "hoagie", "hero", etc.

The hot dog answer could refer to the common online discussion: "Is a hot dog a sandwich?"
|-
! 13
| What do you call the scaly many-legged animal often found in attics?
|
* A) Lightbulb eater
* B) I have no special name for them
* C) I've never looked in my attic
| Another reference to the frequent appearance of quiz questions asking what users call various creepy crawlies.

{{w|Millipedes}} best fit the description. They have many legs, though rarely if ever a thousand of them, as their name (from the Greek for "thousand feet") suggests. The hard rings that separate an individual's body into segments give the animal a scaly appearance. And of the thousands of species, only a few have common names, hence "no special name for them". The reference to "lightbulb eater" is obscure, but may refer to the tendency of millipedes to congregate in large numbers in dark crevices. Perhaps Randall found some in empty (no bulb) light fixtures in his attic. Or maybe it is just the sort of spooky monster that lives in the dark and makes you afraid to check the attic (or basement).
|-
! 14
| What do you say when someone around you sneezes?
|
* A) "What was that?"
* B) "Oh, wow."
* C) [Quietly] "Yikes."
| Reference to a question on some quizzes about which of several words/phrases you say in response to a sneeze, with usual answers including "bless you", "God bless you", and "{{w|Gesundheit}}" (from the German word for 'health').

This question may also be referencing the {{w|COVID-19 pandemic}} in answer C (and possibly answer B). Sneezing isn't a primary symptom of COVID-19, but most people are hyper-aware of possibly contracting the disease from the people around them so sneezes are treated with suspicion and it's seen as rude to sneeze openly.

It is also possible that a person who has been able to catch a sneeze-producing condition has also caught COVID-19 and, while the sneeze itself isn't ''caused'' by it, the air and various airway fluids so forcefully projected are a possible infective vector with that little extra frisson of concern, given the current situation.
|-
! Title Text
| colspan=2 | Do you make a distinction between shallots, scallops, and scallions? If you use all three words, do they all have different meanings, all the same, or are two the same and one different?
| Phrased similarly to questions like, on the Times quiz, "How do you pronounce the words Mary, merry, and marry?" Options included "all three are pronounced the same", "all three are pronounced differently," or all three combinations of two being the same and one different. Refers to the naming confusion around {{w|scallions}} and {{w|shallots}} - also known as 'eschalots' - but with the unrelated but similar-sounding {{w|scallops}} substituted in the middle.

'Shallots', 'scallions' and 'eschalots' are names used in different dialects, for various species and cultivars of onion used in cooking, either as a small bulb (especially [[wikipedia:shallot|Allium cepa var. Aggregatum]]) or as a green leaf (especially [[wikipedia:Allium_fistulosum|Allium fistulosum]]). In many dialects, the green leaf type is called a 'scallion' and the bulb a 'shallot'. In at least one dialect (NSW Australia) the green leaf type is called a 'shallot' and the bulb an 'eschalot'. This causes confusion in recipes posted online. The word 'shallot' is also pronounced with emphasis on either the first or second syllable, as refered to in question 5. Despite the answer options offered, there is no evidence of dialects which use all three terms, or where 'shallot' and 'scallion' are interchangeable.

{{w|Scallops}} are invertebrate marine animals similar to oysters and clams, frequently harvested for food. In some regions of the UK and Australia potato {{w|fritters}} are also called 'scallops'. The word 'scallop' itself can be pronounced either as /ˈskɒləp/ or /ˈskæləp/, and its spelling has varied over time in a similar way to that of 'shallot'. However, these are difficult to confuse with shallots or scallions.
|}

==Transcript==

[Box with title at the top]
:<big>Dialect Quiz</big>
[Smaller subtitle underneath]
:Compare answers with your friends!

[Quiz is divided into two columns. Answers to questions are indicated by a letter followed by a closed parentheses, such as A). These letters are greyed out]

[Column 1:]
 
How do you address a group of two or more people?
:A) You
:B) Y'all
:C) I have not been around two or more people for so long that I can't remember

How do you pronounce "Penelope"?
:A) Rhymes with "Antelope"
:B) Rhymes with "Develop"

What do you call the scientific field that studies the stars?
:A) Astrology
:B) Agronomy
:C) Cosmetology

How do you pronounce "genre"?
:A) Gone-ra
:B) Juh-neer
:C) Jen-er-uh

You pronounce "Google" with a high-pitched yelp on the...
:A) First syllable
:B) Second syllable

What do you call the thing on the wall at school that you drink water from?
:A) Gutter pipe
:B) Drainpipe

How do you pronounce the name for a short silent video file?
:A) Animated give
:B) Animated gift

What do you call the baseball-sized garden bugs that, when poked, glow brightly and emit a warbling scream?
:A) What?
:B) Lawn buddies

[Column 2:]
 
What do you call the misleading lines painted by disgruntled highway workers to trick cars into driving off the road?
:A) Prank lines
:B) Devil's Marks
:C) Fool-me lines
:D) Fauxguides
:E) Delaware lines

What do you call the blue-green planet in the outer Solar System?
:A) Uranus
:B) Neptune

What do you call this tool?
 
[Image of a claw hammer]
:A) Banger
:B) Nail axe
:C) Wood mage wand
:D) I'm familiar with this tool but have no specific word for it
:E) I have never seen it before

What do you call a long sandwich with meats and lettuce and stuff?
:A) A long sandwich with meats and lettuce and stuff
:B) A longwich
:C) A salad hot dog

What do you call the scaly many-legged animal often found in attics?
:A) Lightbulb eater
:B) I have no special name for them
:C) I've never looked in my attic

What do you say when someone around you sneezes?
:A) "What was that?"
:B) "Oh, wow."
:C) [Quietly] "Yikes."

==Trivia==

*The xkcd Twitter account posted a [https://twitter.com/xkcd/status/1316484953480323072 series of Twitter polls] asking the questions in this comic.
*Shallots, scallops, and scallions ran against each other in [[1529: Bracket]]

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Language]]
[[Category:COVID-19]]

2372: Dialect Quiz

2020-10-15T18:47:14Z

JimJJewett: hammer

{{comic
| number = 2372
| date = October 14, 2020
| title = Dialect Quiz
| image = dialect_quiz.png
| titletext = Do you make a distinction between shallots, scallops, and scallions? If you use all three words, do they all have different meanings, all the same, or are two the same and one different?
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a LIGHTBULB EATER. Please mention here why this explanation isn't complete. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

This comic is a parody of online quizzes that offer to compare the user's dialect of American English with others around the country. These quizzes generally contain questions about word usage, names for certain objects, and pronunciations that vary between different regions of the US. There are also quizzes about broader English dialects, but this comic focuses on commonly cited differences between American dialects.

The earliest quiz of this type to be widely disseminated online was the [http://dialect.redlog.net/ Harvard Dialect Survey], conducted in the early 2000s by Bert Vaux and Scott Golder. The survey created maps of the distribution of various word usage (such as pop/soda/Coke for a fizzy drink) and was a relatively early example of widely shared Internet "viral" content. In 2013, Josh Katz of the New York Times created [https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/upshot/dialect-quiz-map.html a new version] based on the Harvard survey, which became the Times' [https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/01/-em-the-new-york-times-em-most-popular-story-of-2013-was-not-an-article/283167/ most popular content of 2013] and spread the idea to many more people. Many of the questions in this comic directly derive from entries in those surveys.

Randall's previous two comics have been about election predictions, leading up to the 2020 US General Presidential Election. A prominent predictor of the election results is Nate Silver, who runs the FiveThirtyEight website. [https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1315348221565206530 @NateSilver538 posted his results] of taking the New York Times version of the survey on October 11, 2020... just three days before this comic was posted. [[2371: Election Screen Time]] specifically suggests that Randall may be spending too much time obsessing over new posts and content from the election predictors. It's coincidental, but likely, that Nate Silver's tweet inspired Randall's post: he was reminded of the 2013 feature from the Times.

{| border =1 width=100% cellpadding=5 class="wikitable"
! # !! Question !! Answers !! Explanation
|-
! 1
| How do you address a group of two or more people?
|
* A) You
* B) Y'all
* C) I have not been around two or more people for so long that I can't remember
| Reference to the first question of the Times quiz: "How would you address {{w|You#Informal_plural_forms|a group of two or more people}}?" (with options including "you all", "you guys", "y'all", etc.). Option C may reference the significant decrease in human interaction and social contact during the COVID-19 pandemic. Alternatively, it may suggest that some xkcd readers are particularly introverted.
|-
! 2
| How do you pronounce "Penelope"?
|
* A) Rhymes with "Antelope"
* B) Rhymes with "Develop"
| Both the options for this are wrong, making it the first of many quiz questions it is impossible to answer correctly.

Neither Option A's "PEN-e-lohp" /ˈpɛnɪˌloʊp/ and Option B's "pe-NELL-up" /pɪˈnɛləp/ are a typical pronunciation of this name (beyond mispronunciations). In English, the only correct way to pronounce this name is "pe-NELL-o-pee" /pəˈnɛləpi/, which is not listed. (Penelope is a proper name, but usually encountered in literature rather than as the name of a neighbor, and is therefore less subject to dialect shifts.)
|-
! 3
| What do you call the scientific field that studies the stars?
|
* A) Astrology
* B) Agronomy
* C) Cosmetology
| The actual answer is {{w|Astronomy}}, which is not listed. {{w|Astrology}} is the pseudo-scientific "study" of the influence of the stars and planets on our lives, including horoscopes (often confused with Astronomy due to its similar name), {{w|Agronomy}} ''is'' scientific but instead studies agriculture, and {{w|Cosmetology}} is the study of cosmetics and makeup (with a name close to {{w|Cosmology}}, a branch of Astronomy). The last may also be referring to the (occasionally makeup-heavy) faces of movie and television "stars".
|-
! 4
| How do you pronounce "genre"?
|
* A) Gone-ra
* B) Juh-neer
* C) Jen-er-uh
| Reference to a question found on some quizzes: "How do you pronounce ''genre''? ZHAHN-ruh, or JAHN-ruh?"

A majority of (American) English speakers pronounce "genre" as either "'''ZH'''AHN-ruh" /ˈʒɑnrə/ (beginning with the "zh" sound found in "trea'''s'''ure") or "'''J'''AHN-ruh" /ˈdʒɑnrə/ (beginning with the "j" sound in "justice"). Neither of these are listed, and none of the quiz's pronunciation options are common. However, they are close to other words: ''GONE-ra'' /ˈgɑnrə/ sounds like {{w|gonorrhea}} /ˌgɑnəˈriə/, ''juh-NEER'' /dʒəˈnɪər/ is the way the second and third syllables of ''engineer'' are are pronounced, and ''JEN-er-uh'' /ˈdʒɛnərə/ is a word (genera), the plural of {{w|genus}}.
|-
! 5
| You pronounce "Google" with a high-pitched yelp on the...
|
* A) First syllable
* B) Second syllable
| Reference to general questions regarding differences in pronunciation of words. "Google" is not generally pronounced with a high-pitched yelp on either syllable.{{Citation needed}} {{w|Yahoo!}}, on the other hand, has advertised its services with a [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm5FE0x9eY0 high-pitched yodeling jingle], with the high-pitched yelp on the second syllable (as opposed to {{w|Goofy}}'s [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-70mtXw35c iconic holler], with the high yelp on the first syllable).
|-
! 6
| What do you call the thing on the wall at school that you drink water from?
|
* A) Gutter pipe
* B) Drainpipe
| Reference to a quiz question in the Harvard and Times quizzes, "What do you call the thing from which you might drink water in a school?" Answers included "drinking fountain", "water fountain", and "bubbler". However, the question in this comic implies that school children (or at least the quiz maker) drink out of {{w|Rain gutter|gutter pipes}} or drain pipes, which are used to collect rainwater and/or {{w|sewage|should absolutely not be drunk from.}}
|-
! 7
| How do you pronounce the name for a short silent video file?
|
* A) Animated give
* B) Animated gift
| Reference to the "{{w|Gif}}" pronunciation debate, with people split between pronouncing it "gif" (with the hard G sound in "graphics") or "jif" (with the soft G sound in "giraffe"). Both options presented in this quiz use the hard G sound, but neither option uses the commonly-agreed on pronunciation for the ending of the word, “if”.
|-
! 8
| What do you call the baseball-sized garden bugs that, when poked, glow brightly and emit a warbling scream?
|
* A) What?
* B) Lawn buddies
| Reference to a question in the Harvard and Times quizzes: "What do you call the {{w|Armadillidiidae|small gray bug}} that curls up into a ball when it’s touched?" (options include "roly-poly," "pill-bug", "potato bug", "doodle bug", etc.). Another question common to these sorts of quizzes regards the {{w|Firefly|Lampyridae}} family of bioluminescent insects, variously called "fireflies," "glowworms," or "lightning bugs" (although these insects emit their light spontaneously, as a mating signal, and not in response to external stimuli such as being poked). However, there are no common "baseball-sized garden bugs," let alone bioluminescent ones that emit a warbling scream,{{Citation needed}} though a {{w|Madagascar_hissing_cockroach|cockroach}} that can approach this size does famously make a loud noise. May also be a reference to what "potato bug" means to people in the eastern part of the United States and {{w|Jerusalem cricket|what it means}} to people in the western part of the United States.
|-
! 9
| What do you call the misleading lines painted by disgruntled highway workers to trick cars into driving off the road?
|
* A) Prank lines
* B) Devil's Marks
* C) Fool-me lines
* D) Fauxguides
* E) Delaware lines
| Reference to the fact that some quiz questions ask about road features, such as "verge/berm/parking strip/curb strip" and "roundabout/traffic circle". However, these particular road lines, if they have ever been made, aren't common enough to warrant different names. The Delaware Line was a formation within the Continental Army. May also just be a dig at Delaware.

Misleading lines on the road were also mentioned in [[1958: Self-Driving Issues]].
|-
! 10
| What do you call the blue-green planet in the outer Solar System?
|
* A) Uranus
* B) Neptune
| This question references the two common pronunciations of Uranus: "YURR-ə-nəss" and "yoo-RAY-nəss" (which sounds like the phrase "{{tvtropes|UranusIsShowing|Your anus}}", a favorite joke of little kids). The original pronunciation is "oo-ra-noos", both u's pronounced the same way, but this is not a common pronunciation among the general public. It also references the fact that Uranus and Neptune are both blue-ish colored planets in the outer solar system and are often confused by people who don't know much about them. Uranus is closer to being the correct answer - it could plausibly be described as cyan, a color intermediate between blue and green - while Neptune is a deep, unambiguous blue.
|-
! 11
| What do you call this tool?
[[File:CloveHammer.png|150px]] (image of a claw hammer)
|
* A) Banger
* B) Nail axe
* C) Wood mage wand
* D) I'm familiar with this tool but have no specific word for it
* E) I have never seen it before
| The only name most people would ever call this tool is a "hammer".

The last two options reference options in many quiz questions along the lines of "I'm familiar with this but have no specific word for it" and "I am not familiar with this" (such as on the pill-bug/roly-poly question on the real quiz). These may appear as options to questions that ask about something that might not exist everywhere, or something which many may not have a word for (for example, some areas of the United States have a name for "sunshowers," while most don't). However, it's a bit absurd for these options to be present for this question (and this question alone), as most users would be expected to know what a hammer is. This also serves as a bit of reverse perspective on "When the only the only tool you have is a hammer ..."
|-
! 12
| What do you call a long sandwich with meats and lettuce and stuff?
|
* A) A long sandwich with meats and lettuce and stuff
* B) A longwich
* C) A salad hot dog
| Reference to a common dialect quiz question: "What do you call a {{w|Submarine sandwich|long sandwich}}?" with options typically including "sub", "hoagie", "hero", etc.

The hot dog answer could refer to the common online discussion: "Is a hot dog a sandwich?"
|-
! 13
| What do you call the scaly many-legged animal often found in attics?
|
* A) Lightbulb eater
* B) I have no special name for them
* C) I've never looked in my attic
| Another reference to the frequent appearance of quiz questions asking what users call various creepy crawlies.

{{w|Millipedes}} best fit the description. They have many legs, though rarely if ever a thousand of them, as their name (from the Greek for "thousand feet") suggests. The hard rings that separate an individual's body into segments give the animal a scaly appearance. And of the thousands of species, only a few have common names, hence "no special name for them". The reference to "lightbulb eater" is obscure, but may refer to the tendency of millipedes to congregate in large numbers in dark crevices. Perhaps Randall found some in empty (no bulb) light fixtures in his attic.
|-
! 14
| What do you say when someone around you sneezes?
|
* A) "What was that?"
* B) "Oh, wow."
* C) [Quietly] "Yikes."
| Reference to a question on some quizzes about which of several words/phrases you say in response to a sneeze, with usual answers including "bless you", "God bless you", and "{{w|Gesundheit}}" (from the German word for 'health').

This question may also be referencing the {{w|COVID-19 pandemic}} in answer C (and possibly answer B). Sneezing isn't a primary symptom of COVID-19, but most people are hyper-aware of possibly contracting the disease from the people around them so sneezes are treated with suspicion and it's seen as rude to sneeze openly.

It is also possible that a person who has been able to catch a sneeze-producing condition has also caught COVID-19 and, while the sneeze itself isn't ''caused'' by it, the air and various airway fluids so forcefully projected are a possible infective vector with that little extra frisson of concern, given the current situation.
|-
! Title Text
| colspan=2 | Do you make a distinction between shallots, scallops, and scallions? If you use all three words, do they all have different meanings, all the same, or are two the same and one different?
| Phrased similarly to questions like, on the Times quiz, "How do you pronounce the words Mary, merry, and marry?" Options included "all three are pronounced the same", "all three are pronounced differently," or all three combinations of two being the same and one different. Refers to the naming confusion around {{w|scallions}} and {{w|shallots}} - also known as 'eschalots' - but with the unrelated but similar-sounding {{w|scallops}} substituted in the middle.

'Shallots', 'scallions' and 'eschalots' are names used in different dialects, for various species and cultivars of onion used in cooking, either as a small bulb (especially [[wikipedia:shallot|Allium cepa var. Aggregatum]]) or as a green leaf (especially [[wikipedia:Allium_fistulosum|Allium fistulosum]]). In many dialects, the green leaf type is called a 'scallion' and the bulb a 'shallot'. In at least one dialect (NSW Australia) the green leaf type is called a 'shallot' and the bulb an 'eschalot'. This causes confusion in recipes posted online. The word 'shallot' is also pronounced with emphasis on either the first or second syllable, as refered to in question 5. Despite the answer options offered, there is no evidence of dialects which use all three terms, or where 'shallot' and 'scallion' are interchangeable.

{{w|Scallops}} are invertebrate marine animals similar to oysters and clams, frequently harvested for food. In some regions of the UK and Australia potato {{w|fritters}} are also called 'scallops'. The word 'scallop' itself can be pronounced either as /ˈskɒləp/ or /ˈskæləp/, and its spelling has varied over time in a similar way to that of 'shallot'. However, these are difficult to confuse with shallots or scallions.
|}

==Transcript==

[Box with title at the top]
:<big>Dialect Quiz</big>
[Smaller subtitle underneath]
:Compare answers with your friends!

[Quiz is divided into two columns. Answers to questions are indicated by a letter followed by a closed parentheses, such as A). These letters are greyed out]

[Column 1:]
 
How do you address a group of two or more people?
:A) You
:B) Y'all
:C) I have not been around two or more people for so long that I can't remember

How do you pronounce "Penelope"?
:A) Rhymes with "Antelope"
:B) Rhymes with "Develop"

What do you call the scientific field that studies the stars?
:A) Astrology
:B) Agronomy
:C) Cosmetology

How do you pronounce "genre"?
:A) Gone-ra
:B) Juh-neer
:C) Jen-er-uh

You pronounce "Google" with a high-pitched yelp on the...
:A) First syllable
:B) Second syllable

What do you call the thing on the wall at school that you drink water from?
:A) Gutter pipe
:B) Drainpipe

How do you pronounce the name for a short silent video file?
:A) Animated give
:B) Animated gift

What do you call the baseball-sized garden bugs that, when poked, glow brightly and emit a warbling scream?
:A) What?
:B) Lawn buddies

[Column 2:]
 
What do you call the misleading lines painted by disgruntled highway workers to trick cars into driving off the road?
:A) Prank lines
:B) Devil's Marks
:C) Fool-me lines
:D) Fauxguides
:E) Delaware lines

What do you call the blue-green planet in the outer Solar System?
:A) Uranus
:B) Neptune

What do you call this tool?
 
[Image of a claw hammer]
:A) Banger
:B) Nail axe
:C) Wood mage wand
:D) I'm familiar with this tool but have no specific word for it
:E) I have never seen it before

What do you call a long sandwich with meats and lettuce and stuff?
:A) A long sandwich with meats and lettuce and stuff
:B) A longwich
:C) A salad hot dog

What do you call the scaly many-legged animal often found in attics?
:A) Lightbulb eater
:B) I have no special name for them
:C) I've never looked in my attic

What do you say when someone around you sneezes?
:A) "What was that?"
:B) "Oh, wow."
:C) [Quietly] "Yikes."

==Trivia==

*The xkcd Twitter account posted a [https://twitter.com/xkcd/status/1316484953480323072 series of Twitter polls] asking the questions in this comic.
*Shallots, scallops, and scallions ran against each other in [[1529: Bracket]]

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Language]]
[[Category:COVID-19]]

2372: Dialect Quiz

2020-10-15T18:38:02Z

JimJJewett: /* Explanation */ Penelope

{{comic
| number = 2372
| date = October 14, 2020
| title = Dialect Quiz
| image = dialect_quiz.png
| titletext = Do you make a distinction between shallots, scallops, and scallions? If you use all three words, do they all have different meanings, all the same, or are two the same and one different?
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a LIGHTBULB EATER. Please mention here why this explanation isn't complete. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

This comic is a parody of online quizzes that offer to compare the user's dialect of American English with others around the country. These quizzes generally contain questions about word usage, names for certain objects, and pronunciations that vary between different regions of the US. There are also quizzes about broader English dialects, but this comic focuses on commonly cited differences between American dialects.

The earliest quiz of this type to be widely disseminated online was the [http://dialect.redlog.net/ Harvard Dialect Survey], conducted in the early 2000s by Bert Vaux and Scott Golder. The survey created maps of the distribution of various word usage (such as pop/soda/Coke for a fizzy drink) and was a relatively early example of widely shared Internet "viral" content. In 2013, Josh Katz of the New York Times created [https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/upshot/dialect-quiz-map.html a new version] based on the Harvard survey, which became the Times' [https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/01/-em-the-new-york-times-em-most-popular-story-of-2013-was-not-an-article/283167/ most popular content of 2013] and spread the idea to many more people. Many of the questions in this comic directly derive from entries in those surveys.

Randall's previous two comics have been about election predictions, leading up to the 2020 US General Presidential Election. A prominent predictor of the election results is Nate Silver, who runs the FiveThirtyEight website. [https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1315348221565206530 @NateSilver538 posted his results] of taking the New York Times version of the survey on October 11, 2020... just three days before this comic was posted. [[2371: Election Screen Time]] specifically suggests that Randall may be spending too much time obsessing over new posts and content from the election predictors. It's coincidental, but likely, that Nate Silver's tweet inspired Randall's post: he was reminded of the 2013 feature from the Times.

{| border =1 width=100% cellpadding=5 class="wikitable"
! # !! Question !! Answers !! Explanation
|-
! 1
| How do you address a group of two or more people?
|
* A) You
* B) Y'all
* C) I have not been around two or more people for so long that I can't remember
| Reference to the first question of the Times quiz: "How would you address {{w|You#Informal_plural_forms|a group of two or more people}}?" (with options including "you all", "you guys", "y'all", etc.). Option C may reference the significant decrease in human interaction and social contact during the COVID-19 pandemic. Alternatively, it may suggest that some xkcd readers are particularly introverted.
|-
! 2
| How do you pronounce "Penelope"?
|
* A) Rhymes with "Antelope"
* B) Rhymes with "Develop"
| Both the options for this are wrong, making it the first of many quiz questions it is impossible to answer correctly.

Neither Option A's "PEN-e-lohp" /ˈpɛnɪˌloʊp/ and Option B's "pe-NELL-up" /pɪˈnɛləp/ are a typical pronunciation of this name (beyond mispronunciations). In English, the only correct way to pronounce this name is "pe-NELL-o-pee" /pəˈnɛləpi/, which is not listed. (Penelope is a proper name, but usually encountered in literature rather than as the name of a neighbor, and is therefore less subject to dialect shifts.)
|-
! 3
| What do you call the scientific field that studies the stars?
|
* A) Astrology
* B) Agronomy
* C) Cosmetology
| The actual answer is {{w|Astronomy}}, which is not listed. {{w|Astrology}} is the pseudo-scientific "study" of the influence of the stars and planets on our lives, including horoscopes (often confused with Astronomy due to its similar name), {{w|Agronomy}} ''is'' scientific but instead studies agriculture, and {{w|Cosmetology}} is the study of cosmetics and makeup (with a name close to {{w|Cosmology}}, a branch of Astronomy). The last may also be referring to the (occasionally makeup-heavy) faces of movie and television "stars".
|-
! 4
| How do you pronounce "genre"?
|
* A) Gone-ra
* B) Juh-neer
* C) Jen-er-uh
| Reference to a question found on some quizzes: "How do you pronounce ''genre''? ZHAHN-ruh, or JAHN-ruh?"

A majority of (American) English speakers pronounce "genre" as either "'''ZH'''AHN-ruh" (beginning with the "zh" sound found in "trea'''s'''ure") or "'''J'''AHN-ruh" (beginning with the "j" sound in "justice"). Neither of these are listed, and none of the quiz's pronunciation options are common. However, they are close to other words: ''Gone-ra'' sounds like {{w|gonorrhea}}, ''Juh-neer'' is the way the second and third syllables of ''engineer'' are are pronounced, and ''Jen-er-uh'' is a word (genera), the plural of {{w|genus}}.
|-
! 5
| You pronounce "Google" with a high-pitched yelp on the...
|
* A) First syllable
* B) Second syllable
| Reference to general questions regarding differences in pronunciation of words. "Google" is not generally pronounced with a high-pitched yelp on either syllable.{{Citation needed}} {{w|Yahoo!}}, on the other hand, has advertised its services with a [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm5FE0x9eY0 high-pitched yodeling jingle], with the high-pitched yelp on the second syllable (as opposed to {{w|Goofy}}'s [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-70mtXw35c iconic holler], with the high yelp on the first syllable).
|-
! 6
| What do you call the thing on the wall at school that you drink water from?
|
* A) Gutter pipe
* B) Drainpipe
| Reference to a quiz question in the Harvard and Times quizzes, "What do you call the thing from which you might drink water in a school?" Answers included "drinking fountain", "water fountain", and "bubbler". However, the question in this comic implies that school children (or at least the quiz maker) drink out of {{w|Rain gutter|gutter pipes}} or drain pipes, which are used to collect rainwater and/or {{w|sewage|should absolutely not be drunk from.}}
|-
! 7
| How do you pronounce the name for a short silent video file?
|
* A) Animated give
* B) Animated gift
| Reference to the "{{w|Gif}}" pronunciation debate, with people split between pronouncing it "gif" (with the hard G sound in "graphics") or "jif" (with the soft G sound in "giraffe"). Both options presented in this quiz use the hard G sound, but neither option uses the commonly-agreed on pronunciation for the ending of the word, “if”.
|-
! 8
| What do you call the baseball-sized garden bugs that, when poked, glow brightly and emit a warbling scream?
|
* A) What?
* B) Lawn buddies
| Reference to a question in the Harvard and Times quizzes: "What do you call the {{w|Armadillidiidae|small gray bug}} that curls up into a ball when it’s touched?" (options include "roly-poly," "pill-bug", "potato bug", "doodle bug", etc.). Another question common to these sorts of quizzes regards the {{w|Firefly|Lampyridae}} family of bioluminescent insects, variously called "fireflies," "glowworms," or "lightning bugs" (although these insects emit their light spontaneously, as a mating signal, and not in response to external stimuli such as being poked). However, there are no common "baseball-sized garden bugs," let alone bioluminescent ones that emit a warbling scream,{{Citation needed}} though a {{w|Madagascar_hissing_cockroach|cockroach}} that can approach this size does famously make a loud noise. May also be a reference to what "potato bug" means to people in the eastern part of the United States and {{w|Jerusalem cricket|what it means}} to people in the western part of the United States.
|-
! 9
| What do you call the misleading lines painted by disgruntled highway workers to trick cars into driving off the road?
|
* A) Prank lines
* B) Devil's Marks
* C) Fool-me lines
* D) Fauxguides
* E) Delaware lines
| Reference to the fact that some quiz questions ask about road features, such as "verge/berm/parking strip/curb strip" and "roundabout/traffic circle". However, these particular road lines, if they have ever been made, aren't common enough to warrant different names. The Delaware Line was a formation within the Continental Army. May also just be a dig at Delaware.

Misleading lines on the road were also mentioned in [[1958: Self-Driving Issues]].
|-
! 10
| What do you call the blue-green planet in the outer Solar System?
|
* A) Uranus
* B) Neptune
| This question references the two common pronunciations of Uranus: "YURR-ə-nəss" and "yoo-RAY-nəss" (which sounds like the phrase "{{tvtropes|UranusIsShowing|Your anus}}", a favorite joke of little kids). The original pronunciation is "oo-ra-noos", both u's pronounced the same way, but this is not a common pronunciation among the general public. It also references the fact that Uranus and Neptune are both blue-ish colored planets in the outer solar system and are often confused by people who don't know much about them. Uranus is closer to being the correct answer - it could plausibly be described as cyan, a color intermediate between blue and green - while Neptune is a deep, unambiguous blue.
|-
! 11
| What do you call this tool?
[[File:CloveHammer.png|150px]] (image of a claw hammer)
|
* A) Banger
* B) Nail axe
* C) Wood mage wand
* D) I'm familiar with this tool but have no specific word for it
* E) I have never seen it before
| The only name most people would ever call this tool is a "hammer".

The last two options reference options in many quiz questions along the lines of "I'm familiar with this but have no specific word for it" and "I am not familiar with this" (such as on the pill-bug/roly-poly question on the real quiz). These may appear as options to questions that ask about something that might not exist everywhere, or something which many may not have a word for (for example, some areas of the United States have a name for "sunshowers," while most don't). However, it's a bit absurd for these options to be present for this question (and this question alone), as most users would be expected to know what a hammer is.
|-
! 12
| What do you call a long sandwich with meats and lettuce and stuff?
|
* A) A long sandwich with meats and lettuce and stuff
* B) A longwich
* C) A salad hot dog
| Reference to a common dialect quiz question: "What do you call a {{w|Submarine sandwich|long sandwich}}?" with options typically including "sub", "hoagie", "hero", etc.

The hot dog answer could refer to the common online discussion: "Is a hot dog a sandwich?"
|-
! 13
| What do you call the scaly many-legged animal often found in attics?
|
* A) Lightbulb eater
* B) I have no special name for them
* C) I've never looked in my attic
| Another reference to the frequent appearance of quiz questions asking what users call various creepy crawlies.

{{w|Millipedes}} best fit the description. They have many legs, though rarely if ever a thousand of them, as their name (from the Greek for "thousand feet") suggests. The hard rings that separate an individual's body into segments give the animal a scaly appearance. And of the thousands of species, only a few have common names, hence "no special name for them". The reference to "lightbulb eater" is obscure, but may refer to the tendency of millipedes to congregate in large numbers in dark crevices. Perhaps Randall found some in empty (no bulb) light fixtures in his attic.
|-
! 14
| What do you say when someone around you sneezes?
|
* A) "What was that?"
* B) "Oh, wow."
* C) [Quietly] "Yikes."
| Reference to a question on some quizzes about which of several words/phrases you say in response to a sneeze, with usual answers including "bless you", "God bless you", and "{{w|Gesundheit}}" (from the German word for 'health').

This question may also be referencing the {{w|COVID-19 pandemic}} in answer C (and possibly answer B). Sneezing isn't a primary symptom of COVID-19, but most people are hyper-aware of possibly contracting the disease from the people around them so sneezes are treated with suspicion and it's seen as rude to sneeze openly.

It is also possible that a person who has been able to catch a sneeze-producing condition has also caught COVID-19 and, while the sneeze itself isn't ''caused'' by it, the air and various airway fluids so forcefully projected are a possible infective vector with that little extra frisson of concern, given the current situation.
|-
! Title Text
| colspan=2 | Do you make a distinction between shallots, scallops, and scallions? If you use all three words, do they all have different meanings, all the same, or are two the same and one different?
| Phrased similarly to questions like, on the Times quiz, "How do you pronounce the words Mary, merry, and marry?" Options included "all three are pronounced the same", "all three are pronounced differently," or all three combinations of two being the same and one different. Refers to the naming confusion around {{w|scallions}} and {{w|shallots}} - also known as 'eschalots' - but with the unrelated but similar-sounding {{w|scallops}} substituted in the middle.

'Shallots', 'scallions' and 'eschalots' are names used in different dialects, for various species and cultivars of onion used in cooking, either as a small bulb (especially [[wikipedia:shallot|Allium cepa var. Aggregatum]]) or as a green leaf (especially [[wikipedia:Allium_fistulosum|Allium fistulosum]]). In many dialects, the green leaf type is called a 'scallion' and the bulb a 'shallot'. In at least one dialect (NSW Australia) the green leaf type is called a 'shallot' and the bulb an 'eschalot'. This causes confusion in recipes posted online. The word 'shallot' is also pronounced with emphasis on either the first or second syllable, as refered to in question 5. Despite the answer options offered, there is no evidence of dialects which use all three terms, or where 'shallot' and 'scallion' are interchangeable.

{{w|Scallops}} are invertebrate marine animals similar to oysters and clams, frequently harvested for food. In some regions of the UK and Australia potato {{w|fritters}} are also called 'scallops'. The word 'scallop' itself can be pronounced either as /ˈskɒləp/ or /ˈskæləp/, and its spelling has varied over time in a similar way to that of 'shallot'. However, these are difficult to confuse with shallots or scallions.
|}

==Transcript==

[Box with title at the top]
:<big>Dialect Quiz</big>
[Smaller subtitle underneath]
:Compare answers with your friends!

[Quiz is divided into two columns. Answers to questions are indicated by a letter followed by a closed parentheses, such as A). These letters are greyed out]

[Column 1:]
 
How do you address a group of two or more people?
:A) You
:B) Y'all
:C) I have not been around two or more people for so long that I can't remember

How do you pronounce "Penelope"?
:A) Rhymes with "Antelope"
:B) Rhymes with "Develop"

What do you call the scientific field that studies the stars?
:A) Astrology
:B) Agronomy
:C) Cosmetology

How do you pronounce "genre"?
:A) Gone-ra
:B) Juh-neer
:C) Jen-er-uh

You pronounce "Google" with a high-pitched yelp on the...
:A) First syllable
:B) Second syllable

What do you call the thing on the wall at school that you drink water from?
:A) Gutter pipe
:B) Drainpipe

How do you pronounce the name for a short silent video file?
:A) Animated give
:B) Animated gift

What do you call the baseball-sized garden bugs that, when poked, glow brightly and emit a warbling scream?
:A) What?
:B) Lawn buddies

[Column 2:]
 
What do you call the misleading lines painted by disgruntled highway workers to trick cars into driving off the road?
:A) Prank lines
:B) Devil's Marks
:C) Fool-me lines
:D) Fauxguides
:E) Delaware lines

What do you call the blue-green planet in the outer Solar System?
:A) Uranus
:B) Neptune

What do you call this tool?
 
[Image of a claw hammer]
:A) Banger
:B) Nail axe
:C) Wood mage wand
:D) I'm familiar with this tool but have no specific word for it
:E) I have never seen it before

What do you call a long sandwich with meats and lettuce and stuff?
:A) A long sandwich with meats and lettuce and stuff
:B) A longwich
:C) A salad hot dog

What do you call the scaly many-legged animal often found in attics?
:A) Lightbulb eater
:B) I have no special name for them
:C) I've never looked in my attic

What do you say when someone around you sneezes?
:A) "What was that?"
:B) "Oh, wow."
:C) [Quietly] "Yikes."

==Trivia==

*The xkcd Twitter account posted a [https://twitter.com/xkcd/status/1316484953480323072 series of Twitter polls] asking the questions in this comic.
*Shallots, scallops, and scallions ran against each other in [[1529: Bracket]]

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Language]]
[[Category:COVID-19]]

2372: Dialect Quiz

2020-10-15T18:35:18Z

JimJJewett: 2 or more people a crowd even before covid

{{comic
| number = 2372
| date = October 14, 2020
| title = Dialect Quiz
| image = dialect_quiz.png
| titletext = Do you make a distinction between shallots, scallops, and scallions? If you use all three words, do they all have different meanings, all the same, or are two the same and one different?
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a LIGHTBULB EATER. Please mention here why this explanation isn't complete. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

This comic is a parody of online quizzes that offer to compare the user's dialect of American English with others around the country. These quizzes generally contain questions about word usage, names for certain objects, and pronunciations that vary between different regions of the US. There are also quizzes about broader English dialects, but this comic focuses on commonly cited differences between American dialects.

The earliest quiz of this type to be widely disseminated online was the [http://dialect.redlog.net/ Harvard Dialect Survey], conducted in the early 2000s by Bert Vaux and Scott Golder. The survey created maps of the distribution of various word usage (such as pop/soda/Coke for a fizzy drink) and was a relatively early example of widely shared Internet "viral" content. In 2013, Josh Katz of the New York Times created [https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/upshot/dialect-quiz-map.html a new version] based on the Harvard survey, which became the Times' [https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/01/-em-the-new-york-times-em-most-popular-story-of-2013-was-not-an-article/283167/ most popular content of 2013] and spread the idea to many more people. Many of the questions in this comic directly derive from entries in those surveys.

Randall's previous two comics have been about election predictions, leading up to the 2020 US General Presidential Election. A prominent predictor of the election results is Nate Silver, who runs the FiveThirtyEight website. [https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1315348221565206530 @NateSilver538 posted his results] of taking the New York Times version of the survey on October 11, 2020... just three days before this comic was posted. [[2371: Election Screen Time]] specifically suggests that Randall may be spending too much time obsessing over new posts and content from the election predictors. It's coincidental, but likely, that Nate Silver's tweet inspired Randall's post: he was reminded of the 2013 feature from the Times.

{| border =1 width=100% cellpadding=5 class="wikitable"
! # !! Question !! Answers !! Explanation
|-
! 1
| How do you address a group of two or more people?
|
* A) You
* B) Y'all
* C) I have not been around two or more people for so long that I can't remember
| Reference to the first question of the Times quiz: "How would you address {{w|You#Informal_plural_forms|a group of two or more people}}?" (with options including "you all", "you guys", "y'all", etc.). Option C may reference the significant decrease in human interaction and social contact during the COVID-19 pandemic. Alternatively, it may suggest that some xkcd readers are particularly introverted.
|-
! 2
| How do you pronounce "Penelope"?
|
* A) Rhymes with "Antelope"
* B) Rhymes with "Develop"
| Both the options for this are wrong, making it the first of many quiz questions it is impossible to answer correctly.

Neither Option A's "PEN-e-lohp" /ˈpɛnɪˌloʊp/ and Option B's "pe-NELL-up" /pɪˈnɛləp/ are a typical pronunciation of this name (beyond mispronunciations). In English, the only correct way to pronounce this name is "pe-NELL-o-pee" /pəˈnɛləpi/, which is not listed.
|-
! 3
| What do you call the scientific field that studies the stars?
|
* A) Astrology
* B) Agronomy
* C) Cosmetology
| The actual answer is {{w|Astronomy}}, which is not listed. {{w|Astrology}} is the pseudo-scientific "study" of the influence of the stars and planets on our lives, including horoscopes (often confused with Astronomy due to its similar name), {{w|Agronomy}} ''is'' scientific but instead studies agriculture, and {{w|Cosmetology}} is the study of cosmetics and makeup (with a name close to {{w|Cosmology}}, a branch of Astronomy). The last may also be referring to the (occasionally makeup-heavy) faces of movie and television "stars".
|-
! 4
| How do you pronounce "genre"?
|
* A) Gone-ra
* B) Juh-neer
* C) Jen-er-uh
| Reference to a question found on some quizzes: "How do you pronounce ''genre''? ZHAHN-ruh, or JAHN-ruh?"

A majority of (American) English speakers pronounce "genre" as either "'''ZH'''AHN-ruh" (beginning with the "zh" sound found in "trea'''s'''ure") or "'''J'''AHN-ruh" (beginning with the "j" sound in "justice"). Neither of these are listed, and none of the quiz's pronunciation options are common. However, they are close to other words: ''Gone-ra'' sounds like {{w|gonorrhea}}, ''Juh-neer'' is the way the second and third syllables of ''engineer'' are are pronounced, and ''Jen-er-uh'' is a word (genera), the plural of {{w|genus}}.
|-
! 5
| You pronounce "Google" with a high-pitched yelp on the...
|
* A) First syllable
* B) Second syllable
| Reference to general questions regarding differences in pronunciation of words. "Google" is not generally pronounced with a high-pitched yelp on either syllable.{{Citation needed}} {{w|Yahoo!}}, on the other hand, has advertised its services with a [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm5FE0x9eY0 high-pitched yodeling jingle], with the high-pitched yelp on the second syllable (as opposed to {{w|Goofy}}'s [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-70mtXw35c iconic holler], with the high yelp on the first syllable).
|-
! 6
| What do you call the thing on the wall at school that you drink water from?
|
* A) Gutter pipe
* B) Drainpipe
| Reference to a quiz question in the Harvard and Times quizzes, "What do you call the thing from which you might drink water in a school?" Answers included "drinking fountain", "water fountain", and "bubbler". However, the question in this comic implies that school children (or at least the quiz maker) drink out of {{w|Rain gutter|gutter pipes}} or drain pipes, which are used to collect rainwater and/or {{w|sewage|should absolutely not be drunk from.}}
|-
! 7
| How do you pronounce the name for a short silent video file?
|
* A) Animated give
* B) Animated gift
| Reference to the "{{w|Gif}}" pronunciation debate, with people split between pronouncing it "gif" (with the hard G sound in "graphics") or "jif" (with the soft G sound in "giraffe"). Both options presented in this quiz use the hard G sound, but neither option uses the commonly-agreed on pronunciation for the ending of the word, “if”.
|-
! 8
| What do you call the baseball-sized garden bugs that, when poked, glow brightly and emit a warbling scream?
|
* A) What?
* B) Lawn buddies
| Reference to a question in the Harvard and Times quizzes: "What do you call the {{w|Armadillidiidae|small gray bug}} that curls up into a ball when it’s touched?" (options include "roly-poly," "pill-bug", "potato bug", "doodle bug", etc.). Another question common to these sorts of quizzes regards the {{w|Firefly|Lampyridae}} family of bioluminescent insects, variously called "fireflies," "glowworms," or "lightning bugs" (although these insects emit their light spontaneously, as a mating signal, and not in response to external stimuli such as being poked). However, there are no common "baseball-sized garden bugs," let alone bioluminescent ones that emit a warbling scream,{{Citation needed}} though a {{w|Madagascar_hissing_cockroach|cockroach}} that can approach this size does famously make a loud noise. May also be a reference to what "potato bug" means to people in the eastern part of the United States and {{w|Jerusalem cricket|what it means}} to people in the western part of the United States.
|-
! 9
| What do you call the misleading lines painted by disgruntled highway workers to trick cars into driving off the road?
|
* A) Prank lines
* B) Devil's Marks
* C) Fool-me lines
* D) Fauxguides
* E) Delaware lines
| Reference to the fact that some quiz questions ask about road features, such as "verge/berm/parking strip/curb strip" and "roundabout/traffic circle". However, these particular road lines, if they have ever been made, aren't common enough to warrant different names. The Delaware Line was a formation within the Continental Army. May also just be a dig at Delaware.

Misleading lines on the road were also mentioned in [[1958: Self-Driving Issues]].
|-
! 10
| What do you call the blue-green planet in the outer Solar System?
|
* A) Uranus
* B) Neptune
| This question references the two common pronunciations of Uranus: "YURR-ə-nəss" and "yoo-RAY-nəss" (which sounds like the phrase "{{tvtropes|UranusIsShowing|Your anus}}", a favorite joke of little kids). The original pronunciation is "oo-ra-noos", both u's pronounced the same way, but this is not a common pronunciation among the general public. It also references the fact that Uranus and Neptune are both blue-ish colored planets in the outer solar system and are often confused by people who don't know much about them. Uranus is closer to being the correct answer - it could plausibly be described as cyan, a color intermediate between blue and green - while Neptune is a deep, unambiguous blue.
|-
! 11
| What do you call this tool?
[[File:CloveHammer.png|150px]] (image of a claw hammer)
|
* A) Banger
* B) Nail axe
* C) Wood mage wand
* D) I'm familiar with this tool but have no specific word for it
* E) I have never seen it before
| The only name most people would ever call this tool is a "hammer".

The last two options reference options in many quiz questions along the lines of "I'm familiar with this but have no specific word for it" and "I am not familiar with this" (such as on the pill-bug/roly-poly question on the real quiz). These may appear as options to questions that ask about something that might not exist everywhere, or something which many may not have a word for (for example, some areas of the United States have a name for "sunshowers," while most don't). However, it's a bit absurd for these options to be present for this question (and this question alone), as most users would be expected to know what a hammer is.
|-
! 12
| What do you call a long sandwich with meats and lettuce and stuff?
|
* A) A long sandwich with meats and lettuce and stuff
* B) A longwich
* C) A salad hot dog
| Reference to a common dialect quiz question: "What do you call a {{w|Submarine sandwich|long sandwich}}?" with options typically including "sub", "hoagie", "hero", etc.

The hot dog answer could refer to the common online discussion: "Is a hot dog a sandwich?"
|-
! 13
| What do you call the scaly many-legged animal often found in attics?
|
* A) Lightbulb eater
* B) I have no special name for them
* C) I've never looked in my attic
| Another reference to the frequent appearance of quiz questions asking what users call various creepy crawlies.

{{w|Millipedes}} best fit the description. They have many legs, though rarely if ever a thousand of them, as their name (from the Greek for "thousand feet") suggests. The hard rings that separate an individual's body into segments give the animal a scaly appearance. And of the thousands of species, only a few have common names, hence "no special name for them". The reference to "lightbulb eater" is obscure, but may refer to the tendency of millipedes to congregate in large numbers in dark crevices. Perhaps Randall found some in empty (no bulb) light fixtures in his attic.
|-
! 14
| What do you say when someone around you sneezes?
|
* A) "What was that?"
* B) "Oh, wow."
* C) [Quietly] "Yikes."
| Reference to a question on some quizzes about which of several words/phrases you say in response to a sneeze, with usual answers including "bless you", "God bless you", and "{{w|Gesundheit}}" (from the German word for 'health').

This question may also be referencing the {{w|COVID-19 pandemic}} in answer C (and possibly answer B). Sneezing isn't a primary symptom of COVID-19, but most people are hyper-aware of possibly contracting the disease from the people around them so sneezes are treated with suspicion and it's seen as rude to sneeze openly.

It is also possible that a person who has been able to catch a sneeze-producing condition has also caught COVID-19 and, while the sneeze itself isn't ''caused'' by it, the air and various airway fluids so forcefully projected are a possible infective vector with that little extra frisson of concern, given the current situation.
|-
! Title Text
| colspan=2 | Do you make a distinction between shallots, scallops, and scallions? If you use all three words, do they all have different meanings, all the same, or are two the same and one different?
| Phrased similarly to questions like, on the Times quiz, "How do you pronounce the words Mary, merry, and marry?" Options included "all three are pronounced the same", "all three are pronounced differently," or all three combinations of two being the same and one different. Refers to the naming confusion around {{w|scallions}} and {{w|shallots}} - also known as 'eschalots' - but with the unrelated but similar-sounding {{w|scallops}} substituted in the middle.

'Shallots', 'scallions' and 'eschalots' are names used in different dialects, for various species and cultivars of onion used in cooking, either as a small bulb (especially [[wikipedia:shallot|Allium cepa var. Aggregatum]]) or as a green leaf (especially [[wikipedia:Allium_fistulosum|Allium fistulosum]]). In many dialects, the green leaf type is called a 'scallion' and the bulb a 'shallot'. In at least one dialect (NSW Australia) the green leaf type is called a 'shallot' and the bulb an 'eschalot'. This causes confusion in recipes posted online. The word 'shallot' is also pronounced with emphasis on either the first or second syllable, as refered to in question 5. Despite the answer options offered, there is no evidence of dialects which use all three terms, or where 'shallot' and 'scallion' are interchangeable.

{{w|Scallops}} are invertebrate marine animals similar to oysters and clams, frequently harvested for food. In some regions of the UK and Australia potato {{w|fritters}} are also called 'scallops'. The word 'scallop' itself can be pronounced either as /ˈskɒləp/ or /ˈskæləp/, and its spelling has varied over time in a similar way to that of 'shallot'. However, these are difficult to confuse with shallots or scallions.
|}

==Transcript==

[Box with title at the top]
:<big>Dialect Quiz</big>
[Smaller subtitle underneath]
:Compare answers with your friends!

[Quiz is divided into two columns. Answers to questions are indicated by a letter followed by a closed parentheses, such as A). These letters are greyed out]

[Column 1:]
 
How do you address a group of two or more people?
:A) You
:B) Y'all
:C) I have not been around two or more people for so long that I can't remember

How do you pronounce "Penelope"?
:A) Rhymes with "Antelope"
:B) Rhymes with "Develop"

What do you call the scientific field that studies the stars?
:A) Astrology
:B) Agronomy
:C) Cosmetology

How do you pronounce "genre"?
:A) Gone-ra
:B) Juh-neer
:C) Jen-er-uh

You pronounce "Google" with a high-pitched yelp on the...
:A) First syllable
:B) Second syllable

What do you call the thing on the wall at school that you drink water from?
:A) Gutter pipe
:B) Drainpipe

How do you pronounce the name for a short silent video file?
:A) Animated give
:B) Animated gift

What do you call the baseball-sized garden bugs that, when poked, glow brightly and emit a warbling scream?
:A) What?
:B) Lawn buddies

[Column 2:]
 
What do you call the misleading lines painted by disgruntled highway workers to trick cars into driving off the road?
:A) Prank lines
:B) Devil's Marks
:C) Fool-me lines
:D) Fauxguides
:E) Delaware lines

What do you call the blue-green planet in the outer Solar System?
:A) Uranus
:B) Neptune

What do you call this tool?
 
[Image of a claw hammer]
:A) Banger
:B) Nail axe
:C) Wood mage wand
:D) I'm familiar with this tool but have no specific word for it
:E) I have never seen it before

What do you call a long sandwich with meats and lettuce and stuff?
:A) A long sandwich with meats and lettuce and stuff
:B) A longwich
:C) A salad hot dog

What do you call the scaly many-legged animal often found in attics?
:A) Lightbulb eater
:B) I have no special name for them
:C) I've never looked in my attic

What do you say when someone around you sneezes?
:A) "What was that?"
:B) "Oh, wow."
:C) [Quietly] "Yikes."

==Trivia==

*The xkcd Twitter account posted a [https://twitter.com/xkcd/status/1316484953480323072 series of Twitter polls] asking the questions in this comic.
*Shallots, scallops, and scallions ran against each other in [[1529: Bracket]]

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Language]]
[[Category:COVID-19]]

1417: Seven

2014-09-05T19:08:13Z

JimJJewett: /* Comic list */

{{comic
| number = 1417
| date = September 5, 2014
| title = Seven
| image = seven.png
| titletext = The days of the week are Monday, Arctic, Wellsley, Green, Electra, Synergize, and the Seventh Seal.
}}

==Explanation==
In this comic, [[Cueball]] (or perhaps [[Randall]]) says he can't distinguish between sets that have exactly seven objects. This leads him to exchange the items in the sets without noticing, to the point where, when attempting to list a single set, each item mentioned actually belongs to a different set.

This is shown in the comic when Cueball tries to enumerate the seven dwarfs from ''{{w|Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937 film)|Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs}} (a task some people might find difficult, although they would not just chose words from other sets of seven to fill in the gaps...)

The title text also makes it clear that even a simple set of seven items, like the days of the week, also goes completely wrong.

The comic is a reference to the oldest {{w|Set-theoretic_definition_of_natural_numbers#Oldest_definition|set-theoretic definition of the natural numbers}} in which for each natural number, an equivalence class is defined over all sets which contain the same number of items. As Cueball is known for mathematical thinking he could be presumed to have taken the underlying equivalence relation to heart, and (over)applying it to real life, genuinely judges sets to be identical if they both contain N objects.

The number seven being the number for when sets become indistinguishable is possibly a reference to {{w|The_Magical_Number_Seven,_Plus_or_Minus_Two|Miller's law}}; however, this refers to elements within the same set becoming indistinguishable, rather than indistinguishability of different sets of the same size, as the original tests involved either distinguishing between the items or repeating them back in the correct order.

===Comic list===
For each of the seven lists below, the relevant item's traditional position on its own list of seven is equal to its position on the list in the comic. So, since "phylum" is the second major taxonomic rank, "phylum" is the second item on the list in the comic.

The seven "dwarfs" mentioned and their relevant sets of seven are (each item's position in its set is written in brackets before the item):
# Disney's Dwarfs from the movie ''{{w|Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937 film)|Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs}}''): (1) '''Sneezy''', Dopey, Bashful, Sleepy, Grumpy, Happy and Doc
# Major {{w|taxonomic ranks}}: kingdom, (2) '''phylum''', class, order, family, genus and species
# Continents: Asia, Africa, (3) '''Europe''', North America, South America, Australia and Antarctica
# {{w|Seven deadly sins|Deadly sins}}: lust, gluttony, greed, (4) '''sloth''', wrath, envy and pride
# {{w|Seven-layer dip|Seven Layer Dip (recipe)}}: refried beans, cheese, ground beef, sour cream, (5) '''guacamole''', salsa and chopped black olives/chopped tomatoes/chopped green onions
# Layers of the {{w|OSI model|Open System Interconnection (OSI) data transmission model}}: application, presentation, session, transport, network, (6) '''data link''' and physical
# {{w|Wonders of the World|Wonders of the Ancient World}}: Great Pyramid of Giza, Hanging Gardens of Babylon, Statue of Zeus at Olympia, Temple of Artemis at Ephesus, Mausoleum at Halicarnassus, Lighthouse of Alexandria and (7) '''Colossus of Rhodes'''

===Title text list===
The title text extends this saying he also does the same with the set of the seven days of the week. However, the lists found so far (here below) does not follow the same pattern as the dwarfs. The item number does not fit with that of our lists. So where no. 4 spectral colour has Green as no. 4 in the list, this is not the case with no. 5 on the list the Pleiades - here Electra is mentioned as no. 2 in {{W|Pleiades_(Greek_mythology)#The_Seven_Sisters|the wikipedia list}}. (However, this could maybe be discussed?) There is, however, reason to belive we do not yet have the complete understanding of the comic.

The sets Cueball's "days of the week" come from are (the relevant items number in the set is written in brackets before the item):
# {{w|Days of the week}}: (1) '''Monday''', Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday
# {{w|Seven_Seas#Modern|The Seven Seas (modern version)}}: Pacific, Atlantic, Indian, (4?) '''Arctic''', Mediterranean, Caribbean, and the Gulf of Mexico.
## This could also be a reference to {{w|Climate zones}}. See [[#Trivia|Trivia]].
## This could also be a reference to {{w|Continents}}. See [[#Trivia|Trivia]].
# {{w|Seven Sisters (colleges)|Seven Sisters}}, historically women's colleges in U.S.: Mount Holyoke, Vassar, (3) '''Wellesley''', Smith, Radcliffe, Bryn Mawr and Barnard
# Traditional {{w|spectral color}}s: red, orange, yellow, (4) '''green''', blue, indigo and violet
## However {{w|Indigo#Classification_as_a_spectral_color|indigo is stuck in}} by {{w|Isaac Newton}}. See [[#Trivia|Trivia]].
# {{w|Pleiades (mythology)|Pleiades}}, Seven Sisters, nymphs and daughters of Atlas and Pleone in Greek mythology: Maia, (2?) '''Electra''', Taygete, Alcyone, Celaeno, Sterope and Merope
# ''{{w|The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People}}'' by Dr. Stephen R. Covey: Be proactive, Begin with the end in mind, Put first things first, Think win-win, Seek first to understand and then to be understood, (6) '''Synergize''' and Sharpen the saw
# {{w|Seven_Seals|Seals}} in the Book of Revelation in the New Testament: First seal, Second seal, Third seal, Fourth seal, Fifth seal, Sixth seal and (7) '''Seventh seal'''
## Although '''very''' unlikely, ''The Seventh Seal'' could also refer to the 1957 film by {{w|Ingmar Bergman}}. See [[#Trivia|Trivia]].

==Transcript==
: [Megan and Cueball are talking]
: Megan: Can you name all the dwarves from Snow White?
: Cueball: Sure, there's, um...
: Cueball's thoughts: Sneezy, phylum, Europe, sloth, guacamole, data link, Colossus of Rhodes
: Caption: I have this problem where all sets of seven things are indistinguishable to me.

==Trivia==
*Arctic (no. 2 on the title text list) could also be a reference to {{w|Climate zones|climate zones}}: '''Arctic''', North Temperate, Northern Subtropical, Tropical, Southern Subtropical, South Temperate and Antarctic.
** There are however usually only five mentioned according to the {{w|Köppen climate classification}}. They are: Tropical, Dry, Temperate, Continental and Polar climate.
** There are seven continents of the world. Africa, Antarctica (2), Asia, Australia, Europe, North America, South America. Since the picture of the 2nd dwarf is not a dwarf, but resembles another cartoon character "Fievel", the second item in the hover list "Arctic" was a purposeful mistake as well.
*Concerning the seven colour of the spectrum (no. 4 on the title text list) {{w|Indigo#Classification_as_a_spectral_color|indigo is stuck in}} by {{w|Isaac Newton}} to add up to the seven notes in the {{w|Scale_(music)#Western_music|Western musical scale}}
** It should be noted that {{w|Indigo#Classification as a spectral color|Newton probably meant}} the colours {{w|cyan}} and {{w|blue}} as we think of it today, rather than blue and {{w|indigo}}.
** Also note that in a {{w|rainbow}} you usually {{w|Rainbow#Number_of_colours_in_spectrum_or_rainbow|cannot distinguish more than six colours}} with cyan melting in with green and blue and the same for indigo with blue and violet.
** These are also the traditional seven artists' pigments, {{w|Roy_G._Biv|with the accompanying mnemonic "Roy G. Biv"}}. Indigo dye is a widely known and readily available colouring agent. The ongoing ubiquity of the ''pigment'' (think denim) gives it a unique prominence in spite of its uncertain status as a spectral colour.
*Although '''very''' unlikely, ''The Seventh Seal'' (no. 7 on the title text list) could also refer to the 1957 film by Ingmar Bergman.
**This was Bergman's seventh film with an English title beginning with the letter ‘S’ (ignoring articles). ''A Ship Bound for India'', ''Summer Interlude'', ''Secrets of Women'', ''Summer with Monika'', ''Sawdust and Tinsel'', ''Smiles of a Summer Night'', '''''The Seventh Seal'''''.
**Similary ''The Seventh Seal'' is also the seventh Bergman film whose Swedish title starts with ‘S’, although the list has some different members. ''Skepp till Indialand'', ''Sånt händer inte här'', ''Sommarlek'', ''Sommaren med Monika'', ''Sommarnattens leende'', ''Sista paret ut'', '''''Det sjunde inseglet'''''.
**''The Seventh Seal'' was also one of seven Bergman films submitted by Sweden for the Academy Award for Best Foreign Language Film during the 1950s and 1960s. '''The Seventh Seal''', ''The Magician'', ''The Virgin Spring'', ''Through a Glass Darkly'', ''The Silence'', ''Persona'', ''Shame''.

{{comic discussion}}

1417: Seven

2014-09-05T19:06:14Z

JimJJewett: /* Explanation */ clarify Miller's law from the previous clarification

{{comic
| number = 1417
| date = September 5, 2014
| title = Seven
| image = seven.png
| titletext = The days of the week are Monday, Arctic, Wellsley, Green, Electra, Synergize, and the Seventh Seal.
}}

==Explanation==
In this comic, [[Cueball]] (or perhaps [[Randall]]) says he can't distinguish between sets that have exactly seven objects. This leads him to exchange the items in the sets without noticing, to the point where, when attempting to list a single set, each item mentioned actually belongs to a different set.

This is shown in the comic when Cueball tries to enumerate the seven dwarfs from ''{{w|Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937 film)|Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs}} (a task some people might find difficult, although they would not just chose words from other sets of seven to fill in the gaps...)

The title text also makes it clear that even a simple set of seven items, like the days of the week, also goes completely wrong.

The comic is a reference to the oldest {{w|Set-theoretic_definition_of_natural_numbers#Oldest_definition|set-theoretic definition of the natural numbers}} in which for each natural number, an equivalence class is defined over all sets which contain the same number of items. As Cueball is known for mathematical thinking he could be presumed to have taken the underlying equivalence relation to heart, and (over)applying it to real life, genuinely judges sets to be identical if they both contain N objects.

The number seven being the number for when sets become indistinguishable is possibly a reference to {{w|The_Magical_Number_Seven,_Plus_or_Minus_Two|Miller's law}}; however, this refers to elements within the same set becoming indistinguishable, rather than indistinguishability of different sets of the same size, as the original tests involved either distinguishing between the items or repeating them back in the correct order.

===Comic list===
For each of the seven lists below, the relevant item's position on its own list of seven is equal to its position on the list in the comic. So, since "phylum" is the second major taxonomic rank, "phylum" is the second item on the list in the comic.

The seven "dwarfs" mentioned and their relevant sets of seven are (each item's position in its set is written in brackets before the item):
# Disney's Dwarfs from the movie ''{{w|Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937 film)|Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs}}''): (1) '''Sneezy''', Dopey, Bashful, Sleepy, Grumpy, Happy and Doc
# Major {{w|taxonomic ranks}}: kingdom, (2) '''phylum''', class, order, family, genus and species
# Continents: Asia, Africa, (3) '''Europe''', North America, South America, Australia and Antarctica
# {{w|Seven deadly sins|Deadly sins}}: lust, gluttony, greed, (4) '''sloth''', wrath, envy and pride
# {{w|Seven-layer dip|Seven Layer Dip (recipe)}}: refried beans, cheese, ground beef, sour cream, (5) '''guacamole''', salsa and chopped black olives/chopped tomatoes/chopped green onions
# Layers of the {{w|OSI model|Open System Interconnection (OSI) data transmission model}}: application, presentation, session, transport, network, (6) '''data link''' and physical
# {{w|Wonders of the World|Wonders of the Ancient World}}: Great Pyramid of Giza, Hanging Gardens of Babylon, Statue of Zeus at Olympia, Temple of Artemis at Ephesus, Mausoleum at Halicarnassus, Lighthouse of Alexandria and (7) '''Colossus of Rhodes'''

===Title text list===
The title text extends this saying he also does the same with the set of the seven days of the week. However, the lists found so far (here below) does not follow the same pattern as the dwarfs. The item number does not fit with that of our lists. So where no. 4 spectral colour has Green as no. 4 in the list, this is not the case with no. 5 on the list the Pleiades - here Electra is mentioned as no. 2 in {{W|Pleiades_(Greek_mythology)#The_Seven_Sisters|the wikipedia list}}. (However, this could maybe be discussed?) There is, however, reason to belive we do not yet have the complete understanding of the comic.

The sets Cueball's "days of the week" come from are (the relevant items number in the set is written in brackets before the item):
# {{w|Days of the week}}: (1) '''Monday''', Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday
# {{w|Seven_Seas#Modern|The Seven Seas (modern version)}}: Pacific, Atlantic, Indian, (4?) '''Arctic''', Mediterranean, Caribbean, and the Gulf of Mexico.
## This could also be a reference to {{w|Climate zones}}. See [[#Trivia|Trivia]].
## This could also be a reference to {{w|Continents}}. See [[#Trivia|Trivia]].
# {{w|Seven Sisters (colleges)|Seven Sisters}}, historically women's colleges in U.S.: Mount Holyoke, Vassar, (3) '''Wellesley''', Smith, Radcliffe, Bryn Mawr and Barnard
# Traditional {{w|spectral color}}s: red, orange, yellow, (4) '''green''', blue, indigo and violet
## However {{w|Indigo#Classification_as_a_spectral_color|indigo is stuck in}} by {{w|Isaac Newton}}. See [[#Trivia|Trivia]].
# {{w|Pleiades (mythology)|Pleiades}}, Seven Sisters, nymphs and daughters of Atlas and Pleone in Greek mythology: Maia, (2?) '''Electra''', Taygete, Alcyone, Celaeno, Sterope and Merope
# ''{{w|The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People}}'' by Dr. Stephen R. Covey: Be proactive, Begin with the end in mind, Put first things first, Think win-win, Seek first to understand and then to be understood, (6) '''Synergize''' and Sharpen the saw
# {{w|Seven_Seals|Seals}} in the Book of Revelation in the New Testament: First seal, Second seal, Third seal, Fourth seal, Fifth seal, Sixth seal and (7) '''Seventh seal'''
## Although '''very''' unlikely, ''The Seventh Seal'' could also refer to the 1957 film by {{w|Ingmar Bergman}}. See [[#Trivia|Trivia]].

==Transcript==
: [Megan and Cueball are talking]
: Megan: Can you name all the dwarves from Snow White?
: Cueball: Sure, there's, um...
: Cueball's thoughts: Sneezy, phylum, Europe, sloth, guacamole, data link, Colossus of Rhodes
: Caption: I have this problem where all sets of seven things are indistinguishable to me.

==Trivia==
*Arctic (no. 2 on the title text list) could also be a reference to {{w|Climate zones|climate zones}}: '''Arctic''', North Temperate, Northern Subtropical, Tropical, Southern Subtropical, South Temperate and Antarctic.
** There are however usually only five mentioned according to the {{w|Köppen climate classification}}. They are: Tropical, Dry, Temperate, Continental and Polar climate.
** There are seven continents of the world. Africa, Antarctica (2), Asia, Australia, Europe, North America, South America. Since the picture of the 2nd dwarf is not a dwarf, but resembles another cartoon character "Fievel", the second item in the hover list "Arctic" was a purposeful mistake as well.
*Concerning the seven colour of the spectrum (no. 4 on the title text list) {{w|Indigo#Classification_as_a_spectral_color|indigo is stuck in}} by {{w|Isaac Newton}} to add up to the seven notes in the {{w|Scale_(music)#Western_music|Western musical scale}}
** It should be noted that {{w|Indigo#Classification as a spectral color|Newton probably meant}} the colours {{w|cyan}} and {{w|blue}} as we think of it today, rather than blue and {{w|indigo}}.
** Also note that in a {{w|rainbow}} you usually {{w|Rainbow#Number_of_colours_in_spectrum_or_rainbow|cannot distinguish more than six colours}} with cyan melting in with green and blue and the same for indigo with blue and violet.
** These are also the traditional seven artists' pigments, {{w|Roy_G._Biv|with the accompanying mnemonic "Roy G. Biv"}}. Indigo dye is a widely known and readily available colouring agent. The ongoing ubiquity of the ''pigment'' (think denim) gives it a unique prominence in spite of its uncertain status as a spectral colour.
*Although '''very''' unlikely, ''The Seventh Seal'' (no. 7 on the title text list) could also refer to the 1957 film by Ingmar Bergman.
**This was Bergman's seventh film with an English title beginning with the letter ‘S’ (ignoring articles). ''A Ship Bound for India'', ''Summer Interlude'', ''Secrets of Women'', ''Summer with Monika'', ''Sawdust and Tinsel'', ''Smiles of a Summer Night'', '''''The Seventh Seal'''''.
**Similary ''The Seventh Seal'' is also the seventh Bergman film whose Swedish title starts with ‘S’, although the list has some different members. ''Skepp till Indialand'', ''Sånt händer inte här'', ''Sommarlek'', ''Sommaren med Monika'', ''Sommarnattens leende'', ''Sista paret ut'', '''''Det sjunde inseglet'''''.
**''The Seventh Seal'' was also one of seven Bergman films submitted by Sweden for the Academy Award for Best Foreign Language Film during the 1950s and 1960s. '''The Seventh Seal''', ''The Magician'', ''The Virgin Spring'', ''Through a Glass Darkly'', ''The Silence'', ''Persona'', ''Shame''.

{{comic discussion}}