explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

Talk:2381: The True Name of the Bear

2021-06-22T03:51:51Z

Koro Neil: What are these warnings warning us not to do, or telling us to do?

This one is ridiculously early. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.22.120|172.69.22.120]] 05:22, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

Let’s try this again, hopefully won’t get stepped on this time... I know I’ve seen Gretchen on various YouTube channels but is she really “the world's foremost internet linguist” as Randal claims?[[Special:Contributions/162.158.79.87|162.158.79.87]] 05:29, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
:Probably as a linguist studying internet culture, which she is indeed one of the most famous in that area. Most popular linguist on the internet? It's everyone's guess.
:From Randall Munroe to Tom Scott... how much more proof do you need? Or is it a conspiracy theory waiting to happen? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.143|162.158.74.143]] 16:34, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
Well, after being mentioned by Randall she totally might become the most known one.

"Arth" is Welsh for bear.
:Sounds rather close to the French "[https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ours#French ours]" (which derives from Latin and whose pronunciation has virtually nothing in common with the English word of the same spelling).--[[Special:Contributions/141.101.69.29|141.101.69.29]] 15:24, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Hence King Arthur [[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.183|162.158.158.183]] 20:22, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Hmm... I find Ponytail's behaviour strange. At first she asks for explanation/verification of Megan's claim and when she recieves it she yells "NO!" as if she already knew it would be true... [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 09:14, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
:She gets confirmation that the name is lost in panel 3 (and assumes it also confirms the summoning part). So she indeed knew by panel 4.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.68.66|141.101.68.66]] 10:51, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
:: Why isn't the bear's name summoning it after its name being said out loud in panel 3, though? Or is the name only "true" in English (in which the name didn't exist until Gretchen reconstructed it)? Doesn't make sense. /edit: I know we are talking about myths and superstition here and thus it might be all somewhat hazy but this comic is imho not self-consistent. I'm not used to inconsistent comics on XKCD (unless it's done on purpose for humorous effect which in this case seems not to be true). Thus my irritation. [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 11:13, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
:::They are clearly in England (or the Anglosphere in general, though English isn't the official language in the US, merely customary) and by the Rules Of Summoning an English/etc 'bear' ''must'' only respond to the locality-sanctioned word (said with intent, not a coincidentally homophonic collection of syllables, not saying the exact same word but in the sense of being actually quoting a different language that uses the same word).
:::I theorise that the Welsh are saying ''their'' bear-name in slightly the wrong accent for being useful to summon a Welsh bear (maybe it should be more "Ardd"?) due to excessive Anglicisation. Or the Celtic way of not-saying-the-true-Celtic-word is to habitually say the Anglic one, which thus does not count. Or the Welsh bears are just confused by the current trend for dual-language signage and expect/require both. (Welsh then English in one half of the country, English followed by Welsh in the other part of the nation.) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.208|141.101.98.208]] 12:55, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
:::If we're worried about consistency here, how is it that all the Romance language speakers (e.g. Orso for Italians, Oso for Spaniards, etc) get away without being constantly mauled? Perhaps it's only the *true* name of the bear, -rkto, that summons the animal. I suppose that would give an explanation of why we don't see any Indo-European speakers around nowadays... [[User:Gbisaga|Gbisaga]] ([[User talk:Gbisaga|talk]]) 13:37, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
:::*NOTE* I've added an explanation that attempts to summarize this consistency discussion. But somebody reverted it. Why? It doesn't seem out of line, compared to a lot of what I read on explainxkcd. [[User:Gbisaga|Gbisaga]] ([[User talk:Gbisaga|talk]]) 14:29, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

:: It need not be so complicated. Perhaps there is only 1 ur-bear (ha ha) that can teleport when it hears the magic word. If the magic word is said many times every day in Wales, that ur-bear would be exhausted by teleportation and only rarely does saying the name cause it to do so. Whereas in English, the first time in years it has been summoned is in this comic, so of course it comes. [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 19:54, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
: Or simply the summoning only works when the true name is said in the currently spoken language (English), not as a foreign word. And consistency on how it works or doesn't work in other languages is really really overthinking, as this comics is not about other languages and says nothing on summoning technicalities.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.68.66|141.101.68.66]] 00:53, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
:: How does the bear know which language is spoken, though... Besides, I'm not sure if this is overthinking if it's basically the first thought I had regarding this comic. [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 12:34, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Fascinating! In Russian, the word for bear is also euphemistic, pronounced as ''medved'', which roughly means "knowledgeable about honey". But until today, I thought that something like "ber" is in fact its true name. Turns out it's not even that. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.238.236|162.158.238.236]] 14:02, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
: Actually, ''medved'' is 'honey-eater', see these two links (in Russian) https://pikabu.ru/story/kto_krayniy_za_medvedem_fenomen_tabu_v_lingvistike_5812897 and https://pikabu.ru/story/kak_rabotaet_istoricheskaya_lingvistika2_v_berloge_yetimologa_5817400 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.183.205|162.158.183.205]] 16:14, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
::Accurate! [[User:Lettherebedarklight|aoijgpisbHtejsykl7ekderhtsjk6r64os4kys\\\[]jsrtjgdrghtvgwrhtejyku5dli6;78t7l6rk5j4h|||||#Rty-----WWWWWWfflfllfllfllfeogk0q9wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww4-cv;c;;c;c[;]z\]d;v[\]????????OH GOD IT'S CRASIHNG MY PC��]] ([[User talk:Lettherebedarklight|talk]]) 06:40, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
::: Being Russian, I van tell that "med" part means honey, but "ved" part is arhaic word for "know" (compare to "vedma" - witch - "woman, who knows things"). And ''medved'' is a next generation of euphemism - in old slavic bear's name was "ber" (Russian "berloga" - bear's lair) and it is now considered "true name".
:I've just been down a Wikipedia rabbit-hole, because of this information, to try to work out why I don't remember it being reported that Medvedev had resigned and replaced by Mishustin. (Or replaced ''with'' him, wherever he emerged from, ''by'' Putin, to be strictly accurate.). Probably we were more concerned about the Constitutional changes, then 'other things' hit the headlines. Not comic-related, but thank you for enlightening me on both linguistic and (as a side-effect) political subjects. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.26|162.158.158.26]] 16:39, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

: What were the linguistic speculations that the header mentioned? Even if there's no source, they shouldn't be removed.

I thought the reconstruction was *rtkos, not *rktos? Wikipedia agrees: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/h₂ŕ̥tḱos [[Special:Contributions/162.158.183.205|162.158.183.205]] 16:14, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
: You’re absolutely correct. Not only is the thorn cluster backwards according to the most commonly accepted reconstruction, it also has the wrong velar (should be *k̑, not *k), AND the laryngeal is missing. The syllabicity marker on the *r is also missing, though the nature of the right-to-left syllabification rule means that the *r would at least automatically be syllabified anyway. This was the main thing that really bothered me about this comic, along with the fact that the expected English form would absolutely not be ''**arth'', but ''*urth'' (or perhaps just ''*ur'' (OE ''*urh-'').
: So yes, there’s an awful lot wrong with the actual linguistics in this one. Which is very disappointing. :-( [[Special:Contributions/162.158.134.40|162.158.134.40]] 09:40, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

I bet a dollar that the long-lost English word for "bear" was "Voldemort". [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.242|108.162.215.242]] 01:03, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

: Oh-oh. You said it. This is why you need to create an account - you don't want people randomly summoning you by your true name "Mr/Ms 108.162.215.242" !! [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 17:48, 5 November 2020 (UTC) (Not my real name which is...oh wait...nearly got me there!)

In Finnish bear is karhu, which is also an euphemistic word meaning "the rough one". There are many other words for bear as well, such as kontio (one that walks slowly), nalle ("bear" in Swedish), mesikämmen (the nectar palm), metsän kuningas (the king of the forest), kouko/kouvo (some kind of ghost?), otava (this one would take way too long to explain) and finally oksi/ohto/otso, which likely is the true name. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.238.239|162.158.238.239]] 11:46, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

A safe name to avoid the name of something dangerous is known as [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noa-name noa-name] [https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/noa (further reference)]. You find it also for the wolf, devil, god, leprechauns etc. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.215|162.158.154.215]] 20:51, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

The etymological joke might be on the comic writer - hrtkos might be itself a euphemism, cognate with a word in Sanskrit that meant "destroyer" - possibly "hive destroyer."
"''there is also a suggestion that the original PIE word for bear, *rkso- (or its variants) is itself descriptive, meaning "destroyer (perhaps of beehives)", because a cognate word in Sanskrit is "rakshas", meaning "harm, injury''""
Who really knows? Same source identifies the name in Lithuanian as a different euphemism - "the shaggy one." And wonders about a German, a Slav, and a Balt arguing about the best circumlocution while being careful not to slip up and make themselves an xkcd punchline. Anyway, it's a fun read: [https://charlierussellbears.com/LinguisticArchaeology.html] [[User:Jd2718|Jd2718]] ([[User talk:Jd2718|talk]]) 22:52, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

I wonder if the fact that the brown bear (aka grizzly) has been disappearing from most of North-America as the Germanic languages expanded there, could be cited as (weak) evidence that the euphemism actually prevents bears from appearing.--[[User:Pere prlpz|Pere prlpz]] ([[User talk:Pere prlpz|talk]]) 13:12, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

This has mainly to do with what's called taboo in linguistics and often doesn't only mean the use of an euphemism for a word, but also the complete disappearance of any reletad worlds, or in some cases even worlds that sound vaguely similar. A commonly reported modern example is the presence of at least ten different terms to refer to the restroom in english, where there isn't really (as far as I know) a fear of summoning anything. On the other hand magical thinking was probably more common and bears where a real treath. The commonly given explanation for this phenomenon is inevitably simplicistic, and arguably less funny as it could be a comparable explanation about toilets. I find the slavic euphemism more funny, but germanic languages are considered the kentum languages most close to satem ones and the significance of this distinction is somewhat disputed, so this may actually have a great importance (I really hope some day the same could be said about water closets).

It's worth mentioning that this is the same joke as the "Wake up sheeple!" one.

In David Anthony - The Horse The Wheel and Language (2007) page 24 it's mentioned that speakers of the Proto-Indo-European (PIE) language probably avoided speaking the name of the bear for ritual reasons

Some links marked with the padlock symbol have a hovertext saying, "Warning: TV Tropes. See comic 609." I've seen this in other pages here. It's not clear to me what our reaction is supposed to be to these. Is it telling us that the link is unsafe to click on? (If that were meant, why not just remove the link?) Or is it telling us to click on the link to see what the warning actually is? [[User:Koro Neil|Koro Neil]] ([[User talk:Koro Neil|talk]]) 03:51, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

Talk:2381: The True Name of the Bear

2021-06-22T03:50:49Z

Koro Neil: What are these warnings warning us not to do, or telling us to do?

This one is ridiculously early. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.22.120|172.69.22.120]] 05:22, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

Let’s try this again, hopefully won’t get stepped on this time... I know I’ve seen Gretchen on various YouTube channels but is she really “the world's foremost internet linguist” as Randal claims?[[Special:Contributions/162.158.79.87|162.158.79.87]] 05:29, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
:Probably as a linguist studying internet culture, which she is indeed one of the most famous in that area. Most popular linguist on the internet? It's everyone's guess.
:From Randall Munroe to Tom Scott... how much more proof do you need? Or is it a conspiracy theory waiting to happen? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.143|162.158.74.143]] 16:34, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
Well, after being mentioned by Randall she totally might become the most known one.

"Arth" is Welsh for bear.
:Sounds rather close to the French "[https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ours#French ours]" (which derives from Latin and whose pronunciation has virtually nothing in common with the English word of the same spelling).--[[Special:Contributions/141.101.69.29|141.101.69.29]] 15:24, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Hence King Arthur [[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.183|162.158.158.183]] 20:22, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Hmm... I find Ponytail's behaviour strange. At first she asks for explanation/verification of Megan's claim and when she recieves it she yells "NO!" as if she already knew it would be true... [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 09:14, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
:She gets confirmation that the name is lost in panel 3 (and assumes it also confirms the summoning part). So she indeed knew by panel 4.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.68.66|141.101.68.66]] 10:51, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
:: Why isn't the bear's name summoning it after its name being said out loud in panel 3, though? Or is the name only "true" in English (in which the name didn't exist until Gretchen reconstructed it)? Doesn't make sense. /edit: I know we are talking about myths and superstition here and thus it might be all somewhat hazy but this comic is imho not self-consistent. I'm not used to inconsistent comics on XKCD (unless it's done on purpose for humorous effect which in this case seems not to be true). Thus my irritation. [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 11:13, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
:::They are clearly in England (or the Anglosphere in general, though English isn't the official language in the US, merely customary) and by the Rules Of Summoning an English/etc 'bear' ''must'' only respond to the locality-sanctioned word (said with intent, not a coincidentally homophonic collection of syllables, not saying the exact same word but in the sense of being actually quoting a different language that uses the same word).
:::I theorise that the Welsh are saying ''their'' bear-name in slightly the wrong accent for being useful to summon a Welsh bear (maybe it should be more "Ardd"?) due to excessive Anglicisation. Or the Celtic way of not-saying-the-true-Celtic-word is to habitually say the Anglic one, which thus does not count. Or the Welsh bears are just confused by the current trend for dual-language signage and expect/require both. (Welsh then English in one half of the country, English followed by Welsh in the other part of the nation.) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.208|141.101.98.208]] 12:55, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
:::If we're worried about consistency here, how is it that all the Romance language speakers (e.g. Orso for Italians, Oso for Spaniards, etc) get away without being constantly mauled? Perhaps it's only the *true* name of the bear, -rkto, that summons the animal. I suppose that would give an explanation of why we don't see any Indo-European speakers around nowadays... [[User:Gbisaga|Gbisaga]] ([[User talk:Gbisaga|talk]]) 13:37, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
:::*NOTE* I've added an explanation that attempts to summarize this consistency discussion. But somebody reverted it. Why? It doesn't seem out of line, compared to a lot of what I read on explainxkcd. [[User:Gbisaga|Gbisaga]] ([[User talk:Gbisaga|talk]]) 14:29, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

:: It need not be so complicated. Perhaps there is only 1 ur-bear (ha ha) that can teleport when it hears the magic word. If the magic word is said many times every day in Wales, that ur-bear would be exhausted by teleportation and only rarely does saying the name cause it to do so. Whereas in English, the first time in years it has been summoned is in this comic, so of course it comes. [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 19:54, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
: Or simply the summoning only works when the true name is said in the currently spoken language (English), not as a foreign word. And consistency on how it works or doesn't work in other languages is really really overthinking, as this comics is not about other languages and says nothing on summoning technicalities.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.68.66|141.101.68.66]] 00:53, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
:: How does the bear know which language is spoken, though... Besides, I'm not sure if this is overthinking if it's basically the first thought I had regarding this comic. [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 12:34, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Fascinating! In Russian, the word for bear is also euphemistic, pronounced as ''medved'', which roughly means "knowledgeable about honey". But until today, I thought that something like "ber" is in fact its true name. Turns out it's not even that. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.238.236|162.158.238.236]] 14:02, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
: Actually, ''medved'' is 'honey-eater', see these two links (in Russian) https://pikabu.ru/story/kto_krayniy_za_medvedem_fenomen_tabu_v_lingvistike_5812897 and https://pikabu.ru/story/kak_rabotaet_istoricheskaya_lingvistika2_v_berloge_yetimologa_5817400 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.183.205|162.158.183.205]] 16:14, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
::Accurate! [[User:Lettherebedarklight|aoijgpisbHtejsykl7ekderhtsjk6r64os4kys\\\[]jsrtjgdrghtvgwrhtejyku5dli6;78t7l6rk5j4h|||||#Rty-----WWWWWWfflfllfllfllfeogk0q9wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww4-cv;c;;c;c[;]z\]d;v[\]????????OH GOD IT'S CRASIHNG MY PC��]] ([[User talk:Lettherebedarklight|talk]]) 06:40, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
::: Being Russian, I van tell that "med" part means honey, but "ved" part is arhaic word for "know" (compare to "vedma" - witch - "woman, who knows things"). And ''medved'' is a next generation of euphemism - in old slavic bear's name was "ber" (Russian "berloga" - bear's lair) and it is now considered "true name".
:I've just been down a Wikipedia rabbit-hole, because of this information, to try to work out why I don't remember it being reported that Medvedev had resigned and replaced by Mishustin. (Or replaced ''with'' him, wherever he emerged from, ''by'' Putin, to be strictly accurate.). Probably we were more concerned about the Constitutional changes, then 'other things' hit the headlines. Not comic-related, but thank you for enlightening me on both linguistic and (as a side-effect) political subjects. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.26|162.158.158.26]] 16:39, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

: What were the linguistic speculations that the header mentioned? Even if there's no source, they shouldn't be removed.

I thought the reconstruction was *rtkos, not *rktos? Wikipedia agrees: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/h₂ŕ̥tḱos [[Special:Contributions/162.158.183.205|162.158.183.205]] 16:14, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
: You’re absolutely correct. Not only is the thorn cluster backwards according to the most commonly accepted reconstruction, it also has the wrong velar (should be *k̑, not *k), AND the laryngeal is missing. The syllabicity marker on the *r is also missing, though the nature of the right-to-left syllabification rule means that the *r would at least automatically be syllabified anyway. This was the main thing that really bothered me about this comic, along with the fact that the expected English form would absolutely not be ''**arth'', but ''*urth'' (or perhaps just ''*ur'' (OE ''*urh-'').
: So yes, there’s an awful lot wrong with the actual linguistics in this one. Which is very disappointing. :-( [[Special:Contributions/162.158.134.40|162.158.134.40]] 09:40, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

I bet a dollar that the long-lost English word for "bear" was "Voldemort". [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.242|108.162.215.242]] 01:03, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

: Oh-oh. You said it. This is why you need to create an account - you don't want people randomly summoning you by your true name "Mr/Ms 108.162.215.242" !! [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 17:48, 5 November 2020 (UTC) (Not my real name which is...oh wait...nearly got me there!)

In Finnish bear is karhu, which is also an euphemistic word meaning "the rough one". There are many other words for bear as well, such as kontio (one that walks slowly), nalle ("bear" in Swedish), mesikämmen (the nectar palm), metsän kuningas (the king of the forest), kouko/kouvo (some kind of ghost?), otava (this one would take way too long to explain) and finally oksi/ohto/otso, which likely is the true name. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.238.239|162.158.238.239]] 11:46, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

A safe name to avoid the name of something dangerous is known as [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noa-name noa-name] [https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/noa (further reference)]. You find it also for the wolf, devil, god, leprechauns etc. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.215|162.158.154.215]] 20:51, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

The etymological joke might be on the comic writer - hrtkos might be itself a euphemism, cognate with a word in Sanskrit that meant "destroyer" - possibly "hive destroyer."
"''there is also a suggestion that the original PIE word for bear, *rkso- (or its variants) is itself descriptive, meaning "destroyer (perhaps of beehives)", because a cognate word in Sanskrit is "rakshas", meaning "harm, injury''""
Who really knows? Same source identifies the name in Lithuanian as a different euphemism - "the shaggy one." And wonders about a German, a Slav, and a Balt arguing about the best circumlocution while being careful not to slip up and make themselves an xkcd punchline. Anyway, it's a fun read: [https://charlierussellbears.com/LinguisticArchaeology.html] [[User:Jd2718|Jd2718]] ([[User talk:Jd2718|talk]]) 22:52, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

I wonder if the fact that the brown bear (aka grizzly) has been disappearing from most of North-America as the Germanic languages expanded there, could be cited as (weak) evidence that the euphemism actually prevents bears from appearing.--[[User:Pere prlpz|Pere prlpz]] ([[User talk:Pere prlpz|talk]]) 13:12, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

This has mainly to do with what's called taboo in linguistics and often doesn't only mean the use of an euphemism for a word, but also the complete disappearance of any reletad worlds, or in some cases even worlds that sound vaguely similar. A commonly reported modern example is the presence of at least ten different terms to refer to the restroom in english, where there isn't really (as far as I know) a fear of summoning anything. On the other hand magical thinking was probably more common and bears where a real treath. The commonly given explanation for this phenomenon is inevitably simplicistic, and arguably less funny as it could be a comparable explanation about toilets. I find the slavic euphemism more funny, but germanic languages are considered the kentum languages most close to satem ones and the significance of this distinction is somewhat disputed, so this may actually have a great importance (I really hope some day the same could be said about water closets).

It's worth mentioning that this is the same joke as the "Wake up sheeple!" one.

In David Anthony - The Horse The Wheel and Language (2007) page 24 it's mentioned that speakers of the Proto-Indo-European (PIE) language probably avoided speaking the name of the bear for ritual reasons

Some inks marked with the padlock symbol have a hovertext saying, "Warning: TV Tropes. See comic 609." I've seen this in other pages here. It's not clear to me what our reaction is supposed to be to these. Is it telling us that the link is unsafe to click on? (If that were meant, why not just remove the link?) Or is it telling us to click on the link to see what the warning actually is? [[User:Koro Neil|Koro Neil]] ([[User talk:Koro Neil|talk]]) 03:50, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

Talk:1104: Feathers

2021-06-21T22:26:40Z

Koro Neil: Click fail

Okay, this is seriously messing with my world. T-Rex covered in downy goodness? I mean it explains a lot, like how they were able to survive in Northern Climes, but, I don't know...--[[User:Grate314|grate314]] ([[User talk:Grate314|talk]]) 12:38, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
:Lets put it this way, would it be any less intimidating if it were chasing you? -Pennpenn [[Special:Contributions/108.162.250.162|108.162.250.162]] 04:08, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

If anyone wanted to look at it, here's a link to the article mentioned

<strike>http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0007999</strike>

I think the linked article is the wrong one. First, it was published in 2009, not 2012. And second, it's talking about raptors (eagles), not (veloci)raptors (dinosaurs).
<strike>Oddly, it ''is'' talking about raptors (eagles) restraining prey, so maybe Randal made the mistake?</strike> No, the picture's caption clearly references another article. I'm having a hard time tracking it down. [[Special:Contributions/96.43.65.242|96.43.65.242]] 21:01, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

"Correct" article is: http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0028964 - "Full" citation is: Citation: Fowler DW, Freedman EA, Scannella JB, Kambic RE (2011) The Predatory Ecology of Deinonychus and the Origin of Flapping in Birds. PLoS ONE 6(12): e28964. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0028964 --[[User:Bpothier|B. P.]] ([[User talk:Bpothier|talk]]) 21:35, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

That citation I do not think is the correct, article it goes to is not matching up fully, this link was published in December 2011 though the rest of the citation appears to be correct.

[[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.159|162.158.62.159]] 12:22, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

''Jurassic Park'' was not incorrect in the size of the raptors; it was incorrect in the *name* of them! The so-called ''velociraptors'' in the movie were actually Deinonychus, which did grow to about that size and had the same shape and form as the smaller velociraptor. {{unsigned ip|108.162.216.87}}
:There is no mention of velociraptors at this comic or explain. I have changed the category to dinosaurs. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 20:33, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

The video link seems to be DEAD. If anyone has the video or knows where it can be found, please... {{unsigned ip|141.101.79.139}}

I think it's worth mentioning that the last part of the title text "And there's more of it every day!" is a fun way of stating that the history we can study becomes longer and therefore more interesting every day simply because every day another 24 hours is "added" to history. {{unsigned ip|162.158.90.210}}

The video is no longer available, should we mention this in the explanation? [[User:Argis13|Argis13]] ([[User talk:Argis13|talk]]) 01:54, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
:The Explanation literally reads: "This video is now defunct, but you can still access it via the Wayback Machine." --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 09:27, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

I clicked on the original comic, and got taken to YouTube, where I got the message ''Video unavailable''. Whether it's inaccessible to everyone, or just where I live (New Zealand), I don't know. [[User:Koro Neil|Koro Neil]] ([[User talk:Koro Neil|talk]]) 22:26, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

Talk:842: Mark

2021-06-21T22:11:37Z

Koro Neil: Legpull?

The title "Mark" referring to both the mark on his arm, and the fact that he is a "mark" -- a victim of a prank or confidence scheme. [[Special:Contributions/75.103.23.206|75.103.23.206]] 22:18, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Hey, I'm part of this club too! Been burning down houses and killing people for years now. ~JFreund

I guess this gives us a pretty good approximation of Cueball's age. He's probably 30-33 years old. [[User:Jake|Jake]] ([[User talk:Jake|talk]]) 14:28, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

[[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.176|199.27.128.176]] 08:26, 6 February 2015 (UTC) In other words, never, ever let Cueball play Hotline Miami.
:To the sane person this is absurd.{{Citation needed}}

The explanation doesn't clearly say that the actual mark is simply: "Pen15" (even though it becomes clear after reading the explanation, for the record: this joke is new to me, I've never been invited to that club :-) {{unsigned ip|162.158.90.194}}

This comic reminds me of the novel [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Darkroom_of_Damocles The Darkroom of Damocles], in which someone during WWII believes he is recruited into the resistance, and performs several missions, but his recruiter disappears after the war, and he is arrested for collaboration. One interpretation of the novel is that the main character has made everything up or is delusional, similar to how Cueball is delusional about having entered some secret organization. - [[User:Redmess|Redmess]] ([[User talk:Redmess|talk]]) 19:30, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

Is it possible that Cueball is pulling Science Girl's leg? This looks like the sort of response Calvin sometimes gets from his dad. [[User:Koro Neil|Koro Neil]] ([[User talk:Koro Neil|talk]]) 22:11, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

Jill

2021-06-21T22:02:33Z

Koro Neil: tidy up

{{Infobox character
| image = Science_Girl.png
| imagesize =
| caption = Science Girl as seen in [[1611: Baking Soda and Vinegar]]
| first_appearance = [[585: Outreach]]
}}
'''Science Girl''' is a [[stick figure]] character in [[xkcd]].

She became the first child to have her own character category, and she is usually distinguished by being clearly a child (in terms of her behavior or in comparison to the size of the adults around her). Her hair is typically set in a hair bun, but compared to [[Hairbun]] it is looser, she may have curlier hair, and typically there is a string of hair hanging down her back from the hair bun. Her hair styles vary, however, with [[1058: Old-Timers|two buns]] or no buns but a [[585: Outreach|ponytail]]. As she is usually also clearly a child she usually cannot be confused with Hairbun in most contexts.

==Characteristics==
Science Girl is a minor character in xkcd, but there are several comics where she is the main protagonist (or antagonist in some cases).

She has a marked interest in science, and is typically more knowledgeable about the subject at hand than the adults around her, which may lead to embarrassment, enlightenment or in some cases dangerous situations, depending on how obtuse or condescending the adults around her behave.

She is not necessarily the same character from comic to comic, but she does represent the general kid interested in science and intellectual rigor. In [[1860: Communicating]], she appears as Alice in Wonderland and takes advantage of Humpty Dumpty's famously illogical dicta on linguistic pragmatics. In this and other examples, her attitude often makes people uncomfortable, especially adults. These personality features distinguish her from an everywoman character like [[Hairbun]], but although Science Girl often causes consternation, she not generically evil like [[Black Hat]], and thus in no way would she represent a young version of [[Danish]].

One of her largest parts is in [[1611: Baking Soda and Vinegar]] (see her character image), which is one of those that becomes dangerous for the obtuse adults. She is also ready to commit crime, even though she knows about environmental issues in [[1659: Tire Swing]] (the only comic with her so far where there are no adults, but it is clear that she is a girl), where she, along with another girl, steal the tires off a man's car, and then fight him. But she may also just induce new interest for science in [[Megan]] as in [[1104: Feathers]], or just display general interest in science as in [[1352: Cosmologist on a Tire Swing]] or the first comic (found so far) with her [[585: Outreach]] (where she only had a ponytail). It was also in this first appearance we learn why she wants to become a scientist.

In three cases she is depicted as a young '''adult woman'''. These are in [[1520: Degree-Off]], where the hair and behavior fit perfectly with a grown up Science Girl, [[1737: Datacenter Scale]], where she appears to be running a data center, and [[2344: 26-Second Pulse]], where she is giving a lecture on an unexplained seismological signal.
*There are other comics with women looking like this, but in those instances there is no scientific context that could relate to science girls so they have been listed as Hairbun for now:
**[[703: Honor Societies]]
**[[708: Sex Dice]]
**[[1601: Isolation]]
**[[1608: Hoverboard]] in every instance.
*Maybe this will be changed later, when the community has had a chance to look into this new character.

==Gallery==
Since Science Girl is depicted in different ways so here is a gallery of some of these different appearances, her first appearance, her standard appearance, two buns and adult:

[[File:Science Girl with ponytail 585.png]][[File:Science_Girl.png]] [[File:Science Girl with two hair buns 1058.png]] [[File:Hair Bun Girl with curly hair and ponytail biologist.png]]

==See also==
*[[:Category:Comics featuring Science Girl|Comics featuring Science Girl]]

{{navbox-characters}}

Talk:977: Map Projections

2019-01-07T03:40:47Z

Koro Neil: Signature

I have a Plate Carrée hanging on my wall myself. Never failed me yet. '''[[User:Davidy22|Davidy22]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 07:05, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

I like the Azimuthal Equidistant (equatorial aspect) the best. - not Pennpenn. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.43|108.162.221.43]] 01:15, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

You can explore and compare different map projections and their distortions (using Tissot’s indicatrix and triangulation of sphere) in an interactive blog post '''[http://mjmdavis.com/showing/2017/05/16/how-to-read-maps.html The problem with maps]''' by Michael Davis --[[User:JakubNarebski|JakubNarebski]] ([[User talk:JakubNarebski|talk]]) 14:58, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

Go check out that site carefully though most of the data is accurate, some of the media is not, for example the two side by side Google maps satellite images of cars and the text saying how a map projection changes the apparent size of the cars. Well if you open up both links you will see they are at different zoom levels, one at a scale of 50 feet per unit and the other at 100 feet so yes being twice the zoom the cars are going to appear larger then the image right next to it. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.231|162.158.62.231]] 12:04, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Btw, this comic is given in ''[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lR7s1Y6Zig What Does Earth Look Like?]'' of Vsause where these projections are discussed. --[[User:Ата|Ата]] [[User talk:Ата|(talk)]] 10:38, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

;Dymaxion
Dymaxion is clearly the best. There's nothing like a map made out of an unfolded d20. [[User:Alpha|Alpha]] ([[User talk:Alpha|talk]]) 19:43, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

: Makes you wonder what if a dodecahedron had been used instead of an icosahedron. --[[User:Quicksilver|Quicksilver]] ([[User talk:Quicksilver|talk]]) 18:02, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

::Here you go: http://www.progonos.com/furuti/MapProj/Normal/ProjPoly/Foldout/Dodecahedron/dodecahedron.html - [[User:Frankie|Frankie]] ([[User talk:Frankie|talk]]) 16:40, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

;Quincunx
Peirce Quincuncial has 4 non-conformal points, but not the 4 corners, which are the south pole, but instead are the 4 midpoints of the sides. These are on the equator and seem to be 90 degrees apart.--DrMath 06:30, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
: I love Peirce Quincuncial, yet I slept throughout that "Inception". [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.228|141.101.99.228]] 11:36, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
: I'm surprised nobody thought of "''really'' looking at your hands" as a hint that person that likes this projection is under influence of LSD or similar drug. As this surely is a thing that you do. (and you'll think of it next time you smoke your joint - inception!) --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.254.137|108.162.254.137]] 17:29, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Plus it has a picture of a man looking at his hand and a man looking at the man looking at his hand.[[User:Weatherlawyer| I used Google News BEFORE it was clickbait]] ([[User talk:Weatherlawyer|talk]]) 14:39, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

xkcd 1051's title text - "meta lucid dreaming". I really got excited that there was an article about and ironically, it leads to meta and lucid dreaming separately. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.55.67|173.245.55.67]] 21:23, 25 March 2014 (UTC)BK201

The common video game trope of "the far east of the world is connected to the far west, and the far north likewise to the far south" is popularly resolved by saying that those game worlds are toroidal shapes. (For a particular reference, I am thinking of the SNES and PSX era Final Fantasy games (4-9.)) But sometime in the last year, I got the idea that you could also resolve that geographical conflict (and claim they are spherical) by the logic that the "world map" you see in those games (where they have one) is a Peirce Qunincuncial map. Is my logic sound? [[User:Boct1584|Boct1584]] ([[User talk:Boct1584|talk]]) 15:31, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

The explanation for the Peirce Quincuncial seems to miss the fact that Randall is implying that anyone who likes this map is most likely high. Getting lost in deep thought over things like your hands, or sitting in a dark theater for 6 hours to wrap your head around Inception...these are all very stereotypical "has smoke a lot of marijuana" behaviors. {{unsigned ip|108.162.216.21}}

The Quincuncial map is one of few maps that can tile infinite plane such that any 2 arbitrarily close points on the plane correspond to 2 arbitrarily close points on globe and vice versa.

;Waterman

In actual fact, the Waterman butterfly map used a truncated octahedron based upon the mathematics of close packing of spheres and is not at all based upon any of CaHill's work/math.
-- steve waterman {{unsigned ip|65.92.20.61}}
:Perhaps the explanation should mention that Waterman himself signed up at forum.xkcd.com and vigorously denied that his map has anything to do with Cahill. At the time, it was unclear whether the account was really Waterman, or just a troll trying to make him look bad. - [[User:Frankie|Frankie]] ([[User talk:Frankie|talk]]) 21:39, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

;Kavrayskiy VII
Kavrayskiy is the best projection, despite being so far out of the mainstream that no-one west of Ukraine has seen one for the past 20 years. {{unsigned ip|173.245.54.64}}
:Wow, I looked into it and it really seems like an excellent projection. It's been a while since I've looked at projections but I think it's my new favourite as it has everything that I've been looking for in a projection. It's a more accurate (in extremes) and more pleasing Robinson projection that still has a reasonable amount cut off the top. Also, the indicatrix for it is very simple, as is the formula, and simple things please simple minds (like mine, apparently) -- without taking it to an extreme like the equirectangular projection does. I swear I've come across it before, but then again I grew up in a country which wasn't far from the Eastern Bloc. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.214|141.101.98.214]] 14:51, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

;Sphere
To be fair, what is drawn is an orthographic azimuthal projection.--[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.153|108.162.216.153]] 18:59, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

GLOBES ARE THE BEST although my enormous Winkel Tripel hasn't done too bad. {{unsigned ip|108.162.219.9}}

Airline food is never microwaved, and is chilled rather than frozen. Also the problems aren't limited to storage and re-heating, there are technical considerations with low air pressure, dehydrated air etc. and concerns over strong smells. I edited the relevant section. [[User:AmbroseChapel|AmbroseChapel]] ([[User talk:AmbroseChapel|talk]]) 07:00, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

"Here is what it says about you" is a common phrase in online personality quizzes, pages and other things. {{unsigned ip|162.158.167.234}}

Randall Hates New Zealand. [[User:Koro Neil|Koro Neil]] ([[User talk:Koro Neil|talk]]) 03:40, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Talk:977: Map Projections

2019-01-07T03:38:27Z

Koro Neil: The Waterman Butterfly sucks completely

Talk:917: Hofstadter

2018-12-28T01:44:11Z

Koro Neil:

I bet Randall felt so clever when he came up with that acronym. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 01:24, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

IMO he had every right to. {{unsigned ip|‎79.114.62.187}}

Is it worth mentioning that Is Meta is an acronym for "I'm," the first word of the acronym? That seems like it would be in the spirit of Hofstadter and "meta," especially since Hofstadter talks a lot about the meaning of "I" in his books. --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.117|108.162.237.117]] 04:28, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Would "this acronym" imply that the sentence itself is an acronym for something much larger? A biography, perhaps? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.218|108.162.237.218]] 14:48, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

The acronym of the title text is "tit riots (r)j". I'm fairly sure this doesn't really mean anything, but "tit riots" just made me giggle. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.70.21|141.101.70.21]] 11:41, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Should it read “I'm so meta, even this acrostic”? Or did Randall eschew correctness in favor of more readers knowing what the comic's words meant? [[User:YatharthROCK|YatharthROCK]] ([[User talk:YatharthROCK|talk]]) 22:25, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

The explanation is factually incorrect... the prefix "meta" comes from the (ancient) Greek preposition "meta" which doesn't mean "beyond" or "out of" but merely "after". It came to mean, as a prefix, "beyond" or "reflexive", in modern european languages, via the latin neologism "metaphysica", supposed to be a translitteration of the title of Aristotle's collection of essays. This mysterious title was given by their first editor, living centuries after Aristotle, and was "ta meta ta physica", that is to say something like : "those [the books] after those regarding nature". As those mysteriously titled books concerned the general principles of reality, (including famously the "god", the divine principle of nature"), the title came wrongly to be understood as meaning "beyond nature". Eventually, the "metaphysics" of something came to be understood as dealing with the principles "beyond" a given domain, hence "meta-studies" or "meta-psychology", etc. It is, however, a mistake made since centuries... --[[User:Antinomiste|Antinomiste]] ([[User talk:Antinomiste|talk]]) 19:31, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

The last panel's boustrophedon acronym. "Woah I Think He / Nailed It" is an acronym for "Within", if you read in boustrophedon. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.104.221|141.101.104.221]]

This is even cleverer than I think it is. [[User:Koro Neil|Koro Neil]] ([[User talk:Koro Neil|talk]]) 01:44, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

Talk:917: Hofstadter

2018-12-28T01:43:50Z

Koro Neil:

Talk:133: The Raven

2018-12-27T21:17:39Z

Koro Neil:

[[User:Rikthoff|Rikthoff]] ([[User talk:Rikthoff|talk]]) Date is definitely incorrect. Could someone fix that?

I must admit curiosity as to how you equated "rapping on a door" with "rape". "Rapping" as used in the poem means exactly what it says; to tap on the door. Electric doorbells didn't exist in the 1800s and people would announce their presence at your door by knocking (rapping) on it. It has nothing to do with rape.
:Agreed, and fixed. The original posting made the incorrect association of ''rapping'' (to knock or strike) with ''rape'' (originally to sieze or carry away, in addition to its more contemporary meaning) which was incorrectly described as "too force open"... but that's the nature of wikis: we all can post, and we all can correct. Thanks for pointing it out. -- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 14:26, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Should it be mentioned that the actual poem says "as '''of''' someone gently rapping" rather than "as if"? -- [[Special:Contributions/141.101.104.25|141.101.104.25]] 22:33, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
: I was about to say the same thing. A rare, uncorrected Randall error probably bears comment. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.175|108.162.237.175]]

Is there any possible connection between the fact that in the original it was a raven, and now it's a white rapper, instead of a black one? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.218.118|108.162.218.118]] 05:17, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

Should have been "as '''of''' someone gently rapping." [[User:Koro Neil|Koro Neil]] ([[User talk:Koro Neil|talk]]) 21:17, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

Talk:199: Right-Hand Rule

2018-12-27T06:10:41Z

Koro Neil:

There's also the right hand rule on urban dictionary, although it's applied slightly differently, and it only has one input parameter. [[User:Davidy22|Davidy22]] ([[User talk:Davidy22|talk]]) 03:44, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

I expanded the explanation to cover the erection joke. [[Special:Contributions/184.66.160.91|184.66.160.91]] 02:12, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Can anyone explain "Girls on Girls in Tightly Closed Nonorientable Spaces"? What is that, lesbians in a box? What is a nonorientable space? [[User:Swordsmith|Swordsmith]] ([[User talk:Swordsmith|talk]]) 02:14, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

A non orientable space is, IIRC, a shape like a Möbius strip, in which has a sort of topological " handedness." Or maybe that's an orientable space. I'm pretty sure it's non orientable.

As far as noneuclidean porn goes though, I have a fetish for fractals. Just pull up a sexy fractal zoom and we're good to go. But I'm cisfemale. No dick. X'D [[User:International Space Station|International Space Station]] ([[User talk:International Space Station|talk]]) 09:18, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

It turns into a cat for me {{unsigned ip|108.162.218.166}}

"Cross product", huh? [[User:Koro Neil|Koro Neil]] ([[User talk:Koro Neil|talk]]) 06:10, 27 December 2018 (UTC)