explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

Talk:3208: SNEWS

2026-02-17T07:11:07Z

Lupo:

The title text SNEWS is a reference to {{w|SuperNova_Early_Warning_System}}. {{unsigned ip|2a09:bac2:3656:ebe::178:123}} 21:58, 16 February 2026 (UTC)
: No, you're wrong. It stands for Southeast, North East West South, since those are the directions where it can detect them. - [[Special:Contributions/45.178.1.151|45.178.1.151]] 01:41, 17 February 2026 (UTC)

F1RST! also i posted this when there was no explanation. please fix this {{unsigned ip|2605:59c8:22e3:3e14:95a1:c5da:4c49:c384|22:55, 16 February 2026 (UTC)}}

Is this my mediocre non-native English, or should the title text read "setting off fireworks indoors"? (Trivia?) --[[Special:Contributions/2001:A62:5F7:FB01:538E:3F07:C9F0:F0C0|2001:A62:5F7:FB01:538E:3F07:C9F0:F0C0]] 23:06, 16 February 2026 (UTC)
:Yeah, 'setting of fireworks indoors, ...' would mean setting them up (i.e., placing them) and not 'setting off', lighting or detonating the fireworks. [[User:Sameldacamel34|Sameldacamel34]] ([[User talk:Sameldacamel34|talk]]) 23:22, 16 February 2026 (UTC)
:You can talk of setting explosives (the setting of them, as passively ready, to make them ready for later "setting them off"), so I expect the "setting of fireworks" is pretty much the same thing, much as with the setting of an alarm clock.
:Though also sounds like a possible americanism, like "lit it on fire" (c.f. my own prefered "set light to it"), if only because the former seem tautilogical; and/or strangely long-winded, such as with "to burglarize" vs. just "to burgle" (both being what a burglar does upon his burglary). But it's not one of those many funny transatlantic dialect things I've noticed previously, so I could be overexplaining what actually ''is'' merely a typo. [[Special:Contributions/82.132.239.3|82.132.239.3]] 01:33, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
::I could see it as a missing word "setting off of fireworks indoors" seems OK in American to me, though then I'd want a the: "The setting off of fireworks indoors"[[User:Lordpishky|Lord Pishky]] ([[User talk:Lordpishky|talk]]) 05:57, 17 February 2026 (UTC)

It snew [[User:Yaokuan ITB|Yaokuan ITB]] ([[User talk:Yaokuan ITB|talk]]) 23:28, 16 February 2026 (UTC)
:Exactly my thoughts, Yaokuan [[Special:Contributions/216.25.182.141|216.25.182.141]] 23:58, 16 February 2026 (UTC)
:Gesundheit! [[User:Logalex8369|Logalex8369]] ([[User talk:Logalex8369|talk]]) 01:35, 17 February 2026 (UTC)

Sorry, it somehow escaped me when editing the explanation that neutrinos have mass!! (even though we've known about this for decades). Does this mean that if the supernova is far away enough, the photons will arrive before the neutrinos? Or is that threshold too far to matter? [[User:Sameldacamel34|Sameldacamel34]] ([[User talk:Sameldacamel34|talk]]) 01:21, 17 February 2026 (UTC)

: Yes, but the threshold is too far away to have happened yet. Supernova neutrinos have [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernova_neutrinos 10^10 to 10^20 MeV]. Judging by the table at the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measurements_of_neutrino_speed Overview on neutrino speed], assuming we are about right about the mass of a neutrino, neutrinos that energetic would be traveling within a factor of 10-42 of ''c'', so they would need to have traveled for "a few"×1042 light hours, or a few 1038 years for the photons to catch up. Since the universe is less than 1.4×1010 years old, it'll be another few 1038 years until that happens. [[User:DoSnews|DoSnews]] ([[User talk:DoSnews|talk]]) 03:46, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
::Ah, interesting. And at that distance, the supernova would have to be unimaginably big to even notice/detect? Also, wouldn't it have to be far away enough that it would have traveled for so long the light gets redshifted into oblivion? [[User:Sameldacamel34|Sameldacamel34]] ([[User talk:Sameldacamel34|talk]]) 04:17, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
:::Since SN neutrino detections are tens of neutrinos an increase of even a few times the distances currently detected would render the neutrino pulse undetectable. And the optical event is stretched by time for the photons to migrate to the surface as well as glow from material heated by the explosion and decay heat from ejected material. If we consider only those photons from the explosion "lucky" enough to manage not to hit anything on the way out of the star/remnant they should arrive first by an undetectable time. Also, the explosion itself once triggered has to propagate across millions of miles of the stellar core so the explosion event is at least several seconds long.[[User:Lordpishky|Lord Pishky]] ([[User talk:Lordpishky|talk]]) 05:47, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
::Not 1010–1020, but 10–20. [[Special:Contributions/84.2.109.134|84.2.109.134]] 06:30, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
my first edit in almost 5 months i think lol [[User:Psychoticpotato|P?sych??otic?pot??at???o ]] ([[User talk:Psychoticpotato|talk]]) 01:45, 17 February 2026 (UTC)

One of the firework launchers on the device is aimed directly at the bed. [[User:Xkdvd|Xkdvd]] ([[User talk:Xkdvd|talk]]) 03:06, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
:Is it? Hard to tell in a 2d drawing... --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 07:11, 17 February 2026 (UTC)

Talk:3164: Metric Tip

2025-11-06T15:36:54Z

Lupo:

!tsrif --'''''[[User:DollarStoreBa'al|DollarStoreBa'al]][[User Talk:DollarStoreBa'al|Converse]] 21:08, 5 November 2025 (UTC)
:If you like to have fun with first comments, the place to do it is The Daily WTF comment pages. https://thedailywtf.com. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 21:25, 5 November 2025 (UTC)
Would have helped avoid the Mars Climate Orbiter [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter] feature. [[User:SubtrEM|SubtrEM]] ([[User talk:SubtrEM|talk]]) 07:41, 6 November 2025 (UTC)

I am switching from metric to imperial: I am 1m34.5" --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 08:18, 6 November 2025 (UTC)
:You mean 1m2'26⅔cm. Or ''very nearly'' 2yd4cm½"..? [[Special:Contributions/82.132.244.220|82.132.244.220]] 12:08, 6 November 2025 (UTC)
::This actually is how I remember how much a Yard is. I am slightly over 2Yards, while being under 2m, so a Yard is a bit less than a meter. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 15:36, 6 November 2025 (UTC)

Wait, what? ounce can be volume or weight? So you could give the density of a material in oz/oz? Imperial units are really weird... --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 08:21, 6 November 2025 (UTC)
:That would be highly nonstandard. Density is usually given in pennyweight/cubic barleycorn. [[Special:Contributions/209.188.63.33|209.188.63.33]] 08:52, 6 November 2025 (UTC)
:Not just that - it can be an areal density or a thickness, too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ounce#Other_uses Strictly speaking, though, the imperial measure of volume is not an 'ounce', but a 'fluid ounce' - it's just that Americans have mangled the two together. [[Special:Contributions/82.13.184.33|82.13.184.33]] 10:21, 6 November 2025 (UTC)
: Weirdly enough, the active ingredient in something like medication is given in mg/oz (fluid ounce, presumably). That's just wrong.--[[User:Coconut Galaxy|Coconut Galaxy]] ([[User talk:Coconut Galaxy|talk]]) 10:35, 6 November 2025 (UTC)

"...are usually effectively one or other measurement of weight..." The grammar here seems wrong and confusing. [[Special:Contributions/2A00:23C5:FE1C:3701:54C4:F71B:724:CBE7|2A00:23C5:FE1C:3701:54C4:F71B:724:CBE7]] 10:30, 6 November 2025 (UTC)
: Better now? [[Special:Contributions/82.13.184.33|82.13.184.33]] 10:41, 6 November 2025 (UTC)

I'm so glad I live in a metric country now. Helping people fix their terminally naff cars in the 80s in the UK was a trauma - spanner/socket sizes, like 13/16ths and 10/12ths and 1/2 and... so the guy takes one, not right, asks for the next size up. Well, what size is that then? You mean the six and a quarter eighths, yes? 😪
Oh, and don't get me started on American recipes - you'll very quickly discover that US Imperial and British Imperial are not the same (and far too many American recipes measure stuff in "cups"). So, really, Imperial is complicated enough without translating half into metric! [[Special:Contributions/92.184.141.48|92.184.141.48]] 14:07, 6 November 2025 (UTC)

I ran some numbers, and assuming 28.349523125 grams in an ounce and 16 ounces in a pound, "7 kg and 9 ounces" would be 7255.145708125 grams, assuming the "9 ounces" doesn't involve rounding, while 16 pounds would be 7257.47792 grams, which differs by only about 2.332211875 grams, or about 0.08 ounce - it's possible the weight is actually 16 pounds exactly, which feels like it makes "7 kg and 9 ounces" even worse than it already is. [[User:Conster|Conster]] ([[User talk:Conster|talk]]) 14:13, 6 November 2025 (UTC)
:Don't see why - it's easy to see the equivalence: 7 + 9 = 16. Simples! [[Special:Contributions/82.13.184.33|82.13.184.33]] 14:30, 6 November 2025 (UTC)

Talk:3164: Metric Tip

2025-11-06T08:21:15Z

Lupo:

Talk:3164: Metric Tip

2025-11-06T08:18:38Z

Lupo:

Talk:3121: Kite Incident

2025-07-29T04:40:54Z

Lupo:

First post! [[Special:Contributions/162.195.34.112|162.195.34.112]] 21:47, 28 July 2025 (UTC)

hey :) i wrote the current transcription and it definitely doesn't look perfect so if anyone has any feedback on how to improve i'd rly appreciate it (also like to add that i think this is probably my fav title text in all of xkcd) stevethenoob 22:16, 28 July 2025 (UTC)

The last frame says it shut down ''global'' air travel. I think it's implied that the line of kites circled the world. [[Special:Contributions/2001:8003:6490:9700:94EE:E801:7399:7FD9|2001:8003:6490:9700:94EE:E801:7399:7FD9]] 22:45, 28 July 2025 (UTC)
:I think, at worst, it'd be hemispherical travel that's disrupted (wouldn't cross over between northern and southern {w|Hadley Cells}} at all), though of course that would still affect air travel in which at least one end originated in the northern hemisphere (Sydney to Buenos Aires, etc, should probably be safe to fly) and there'd be an abundance of caution ''anyway'', at least until the rather one-dimensional threat is properly identified (and the nature/origin of its deployment).
:Also, I think a plane could probably strike an actual kite or two without too much problems (much less substantial than a bird-strike, and they're designed to shrug off at least the smaller birds), and I can't see the kite-line being an issue, as even a high-strength fishing line is probably vulnerable to the mechanical concentration of stresses.
:Though I'm surprised it has the tensile strength to lead around the world, prior to any contact with a plane, as all it takes is for a slight wind-differential and the force of numerous down-wind kites could end up creating a tension against the more steady release from the ground and the relative back-pull from all kites that are upwind of that point), either snapping the line or parting a knot between two adjacent spool-ends of line. You can use a fishing line well beyond its design limit by ''smooth'' tugging action/responding properly to the pull of the hooked fish at the other end, but localised jerks and jinks will be hard to avoid across thousands of miles of polymer chord flexing and reacting to the way each of its periodically-attached kits want to move at their respective locations along the 'master string(s)'. [[Special:Contributions/92.23.2.228|92.23.2.228]] 00:18, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

This is not the first time that [[268: Choices: Part 5|Megan has expressed an interest in flying kites]], nor [[1614:_Kites|the second]]. It's also not the first time that [[235:_Kite|Cueball has taken kite flying way too far]]. [[Special:Contributions/2600:4040:5432:F700:80B6:B228:2EDB:6FC4|2600:4040:5432:F700:80B6:B228:2EDB:6FC4]] 00:46, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

I love this one, for me it is very much early xkcd spirit in there, with just people out and exploring, having fun, trying things... I don't think I can really describe, anyone feels the same? --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 04:40, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

Talk:3068: Rock Identification

2025-03-27T11:29:48Z

Lupo:

I made a transcript [[User:New editor|New editor]] ([[User talk:New editor|talk]]) 21:03, 26 March 2025 (UTC)

It might also imply that the geologist doesn’t know but just wants the $5 so comes up with an answer [[Special:Contributions/198.41.236.163|198.41.236.163]] 00:01, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

I doubt they're lying about what rock it is since both mica schists and garnets are visually obvious and even more obvious if a scratch test is performed.[[Special:Contributions/172.69.186.157|172.69.186.157]] 04:36, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

The funny part is it works the other way round: you first identify minerals by sight (also Mohs scale and polarizing microscope), then conclude what the geologic context is. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.232.25|172.71.232.25]] 11:01, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

I think this random "it was wrapped in the bill, no idea where the money came from" also implies corruption and destroying the traces of the money, instead of just payment or tip. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 11:29, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

User talk:CalibansCreations

2025-02-13T14:23:00Z

Lupo: /* Politics intrudes */

Please chat with me below.
----

== 1946?? Yes, at one point. ==

The change made [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Car_wash&diff=prev&oldid=1212096331&diffonly=1 here] marks the point where the valid header/anchor of "1946" was removed. These things happen, especially cross-wiki. Just so you know (I was intruigued myself, so did a couple of minutes digging). Nice catch, though! [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.139|172.70.85.139]] 10:46, 10 October 2024 (UTC)
:oh, my first talk page message, thx. [[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 11:44, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

==Politics intrudes==
randall still supports zionist harris... :'( [[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 07:49, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
: Do you really think Trump would be better? [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.135|172.68.205.135]] 09:18, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
::i mean, both of them suck tbh [[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 09:35, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
:::so whats your alternative suggestion? Voting/Endorsing for a third party and then get trump into office? Great strategy --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 10:46, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
::::that ain't how it works. if we all vote for the third party, the third party will win. simple as that. [[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 11:30, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::''Which'' third-party? Vermine Supreme? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.206|172.70.90.206]] 12:04, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::Who exactly is "we all"?
:::::Nobody outside of your little internet bubble is voting third-party, because doing so without mass coordination is just throwing your vote away (meanwhile MAGA are all fully coordinated in voting for Trump).
:::::The risk of a Trump second term is bad enough even with everyone who is anti-Trump voting for Harris, and you think the average person over the age of 20 is going to risk that even further by voting for a third party?[[Special:Contributions/172.69.195.106|172.69.195.106]] 12:25, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::So, how did it work out for you? --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 14:22, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
: I think you err if you think that "supports Israel against attackers" totally equates to "supports Israel's uncompromising attacks on others". And "Zionist" is such a loaded term, with {{w|Zionist antisemitism|various complications}}, with Kamala being no more this than is her primary opponent.
: Being consistently critical of one candidate by using a single word (e.g.. "fascist", for the other one) does not bode well for your appreciation of the many subtleties that make up anyone other than a cartoon hero/villain. Not that even the reality of the State Of Israel is simple (there are plenty of its citizen residents who decry their government's actions since/before last October, are they ''anti-''Zionist?), and even that is just a single relatively small mess in the much bigger mess that is the wider morass of foreign (and domestic) policy. By picking just one dogwhistle term (arguably in a very incorrect context) isn't helping whatever argument you're trying to make. All I get from this conversation is that you hate every candidate with any chance of winning (and most of those without, based upon their stated positions), without knowing what you are for. Employment? Social safety-nets? Smaller goverment? ''Better'' (define 'better'!) government? Who would you prefer to 'deal with' the issue of Ukraine, Taiwan, North Korea or countless other worldside issues out there?
: You also elsewhere announced yourself as a Brit (as am I), so you don't have a vote and precious little actual influence. Even if you or I had any useful analysis to say about this issue, it seems that most people are already polarised in opinion and you or I (or, indeed, Randall) can do little but be performative about our current views. It is unlikely we could swing even one notable vote, although we might just push some of the partially polarised fully over (whichever way) into their pre-chosen preferences, excited or annoyed by such a single-issue outburst that they find themself vehemently agreeing or disagreeing with. (As a Brit, I'm frankly embarrassed by those who put up "this house is supporting the LibDem/Labour/Tory/SNP/whoever candidate" signs in their windows. I'd put up OMRLP ones, maybe, but I've never been able to vote that way, anyway, so can certainly say that I've actually never voted for them. Even if they sometimes seem the better choice.)
: Furthermore, it has absolutely nothing to do with this comic (US geography, yes, US politics, no). I would heavily advise you to take this whole section out and place it all somewhere else. Perhaps your User Talk: area, so that you can wear your heartfelt antizionist (and perhaps no more) opinions on your sleeve without distracting from more relevent discussion, such as "Why is Idaho unlabeled" or "Why does everyone mississremember Mississippi's postostostal code?" [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.206|172.70.90.206]] 12:04, 17 October 2024 (UTC) Postscript: *I* have moved this. <-that IP
:Quick question, CalibansCreations. Are you the same IP troll who said that Randall supports Zionism? [[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]] ([[User talk:42.book.addict|talk]]) 15:16, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
::yes, I only wanted an account so I could change the skin of this website when viewing it [[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 15:39, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

== Name ==

Hey CalibansCreations, thanks for reverting my talk page. My name’s Victoria, as shown on the edit leaderboard. The “Charlie Spring” name was just a pseudonym back then. :) [[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]] ([[User talk:42.book.addict|talk]]) 15:15, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
:Oh, pleasure to meet you Victoria! You can just call me Caliban or Cal. (That's my own pseudonym.) [[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 19:27, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

==Barnstar==
{| style="border: 1px solid {{{border|gray}}}; background-color: {{{color|#fdffe7}}};"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | {{{{{|safesubst:}}}#ifeq:{{{2}}}|alt|[[File:Barnstar of Reversion Hires.png|100px]]|[[File:Barnstar_of_Reversion2.png|100px]]}}
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Anti-Vandalism Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | <div style="font-family: Cormorant Garamond"> For your help in reverting vandalism on my talk page, [[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']], I hereby award thee a Barnstar. Feel free to display it on your user page. [[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]] ([[User talk:42.book.addict|talk]]) 21:13, 24 October 2024 (UTC) 
</noinclude>
:oh wow tysm --[[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 07:42, 25 October 2024 (UTC)
|}
:tbh, i’m not too sure if i will even become an admin on this wiki, that’s all up to [[User:Jeff|jeff]] to decide. i would prefer that you remove the “future admin” part for accuracy. thanks! '''[[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]][[User talk:42.book.addict|Talk to me!]]''' 17:58, 24 January 2025 (UTC)
::sure [[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 19:14, 24 January 2025 (UTC)

== Full template name ==

I wouldn't normally change existing {{template|cn}}s to {{template|Citation needed}}s. However, it makes even less sense to replace the latter with the former, them being the same at the front end (the smaller being a redirect to the larger, so making a ''little'' bit of extra work for the server) but being less obvious/noticable for what it is in the source edit.

Even with editing to shuffle it vs. wrongly-arranged punctuation, it's surely simpler to delete the punctuation from (say) <tag><comma> and replacing it to create <comma><tag> than deleting the tag and re-adding the short (but still longer than punctuation) form of the tag. I mean, it's entirely up to you, but I'd keep it just as readable. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.26.37|172.71.26.37]] 12:35, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

== "{{diff|359134|On the off-chance...}}" ==

So, we need [[[[Header Text]]]], [[[[header Text]]]], [[[[HEADER TEXT]]]], [[[[hEaDeR TeXt]]]], [[[[hEaDeR tEXt]]]], [[[[heADer TExt]]]], etc, as well, do we?

The only reason it existed was because it was wrong-cased originally. Best not to multiply pages unnecessarily, and that one's an easy to delete mistake. (''If'' anyone actually gets around to it...) [[Special:Contributions/172.69.194.205|172.69.194.205]] 17:19, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

== "As of..." ==

It probably isn't necessary, and not useful, to update an "as of" statement when it marks a past change (or realisation of such a change). Obviously it still can be done for the currently ongoing extent of something, such as "As of <date>, it has not yet changed, but maybe soon", at least until it ''does'' flip otherwise. But "As of..." is an awful phrase that so easily tempts one into such an update. Should probably be said differently, anyway... [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.204|172.70.162.204]] 15:20, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

== Muon fanart ==

I have requested an experienced artist, who goes by the name of ana40ratenjoyer on Tumblr, to produce some muon fanart for your pleasure. You may visit https://i.hypercone.us/?v=feeca3 to see the image they have produced. It is based off images found on the wikipedia page for muon, accessed 2025-02-13t12:06CET

[[Special:Contributions/162.158.122.171|162.158.122.171]]
:thank you, mysterious IP editor who messaged me at 12:06, 13 February 2025‎ (utc), and also ana40ratenjoyer ^-^ this is very peak [[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 12:09, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

::You can call me 56independent - i haven't used my account here in years and IP edits are fine tbh. Dunno how to assing a timestamp fljdslfkjs [[Special:Contributions/188.114.111.46|188.114.111.46]] 14:09, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:::i feel like it would be easier to identify you while signed in, since IP signatures are randomly generated. just a recommendation tho [[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 14:15, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::::I have previously attempted to sign in but i cannot be arsed to complete the process given the infrequncy of my editing [[Special:Contributions/162.158.122.33|162.158.122.33]] 14:22, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:::woag,, hi 56i -[[User:Psychoticpotato|P?sych??otic?pot??at???o ]] ([[User talk:Psychoticpotato|talk]]) 14:21, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

Talk:3044: Humidifier Review

2025-01-30T12:43:34Z

Lupo:

Somehow, the text here makes me think of the air-source heat pump equivalent, i.e. ''Why shouldn't it be the case that humidifiers condense outside air and suck the water out of it, and then pump that water into the conditioned space and re-disperse it?'' Of course, the obvious answer is that doing so would be frightfully expensive and entirely unnecessary given the cost of that kind of condensation compared to the cost of water. And, of course, the capital cost for the minor plumbing to install a domestic water line to the humidifier is going to be far smaller than the capital cost of a heat pump apparatus (or whatever) to generate condensation outdoors and then pump it into the conditioned space. [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 00:13, 30 January 2025 (UTC)
:Also it would still need that amount of water, just that the operator doesn't need to add it manually. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 12:43, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

This reminds me of the whole thing with the VTuber Sakura Miko where she was using a humidifier without knowing she had to fill the tank with water for at least a year [[Special:Contributions/172.70.223.184|172.70.223.184]] 01:10, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

Related to that, just a week ago Sharp announced a humidifier collaboration with Sakura Miko, and as part of the PR they made a formal apology for "Not being able to use magic to make a waterless humidifier" {{unsigned ip|198.41.236.162|02:01, 30 January 2025}}

I'm waiting for the HydroPro High-Efficiency Electric Kettle™ which is connected to a heat pump to heat your tea water. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.170.192|172.71.170.192]] 04:39, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

: ''High-Efficiency Electric Kettle™ which is connected to a heat pump to heat your tea water'' You jest; but in the US we get hot water at the sink faucet. There is a push to do it all with heat-pumps, save a hundred bucks a year! (They say more, but I've compared our use.) But the heatpumps are $2K. A dumb resistor tank is $500. Payback is well in excess of 5 years. And it would make my cold cellar even colder, thus damper. --[[User:PRR|PRR]] ([[User talk:PRR|talk]]) 06:17, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

:: Just install a dehumidifier. And feed the water that the dehumidifier into the water heater. Infinite hot water! Also, enormous electric bills. Also legionnaire's disease. [[User:RegularSizedGuy|RegularSizedGuy]] ([[User talk:RegularSizedGuy|talk]]) 06:22, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

Another device which is often getting negative reviews for not breaking laws of physics is car. Not only that, EU laws for 2035 are basically making against the EU law for a new car to not break laws of physics. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 09:08, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

Talk:2168: Reading in the Original

2025-01-23T08:20:48Z

Lupo:

I removed this line from the explanation: "The New Testament is often studied in the 'original' Greek, despite most of the protagonists actually speaking Aramaic." Reason: While the "protagonists" likely spoke Aramaic, the actual written text was in Koine Greek. The spoken language is a red herring in this case. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.118|162.158.126.118]] 14:34, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
:It could be relevant for sections which are basically writing down something said (in Aramaic). -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 23:36, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
::Even if the people being quoted would have been speaking Aramaic, the Aramaic words they would have said may have never been written down, only a translation of it into a form of Greek (presuming the conversation in question ever actually occurred and wasn't invented by a later writer.) However, doing a quick search, I found claimed that 268 verses were originally written in Aramaic (parts of Daniel, Erza, and one verse of Jeremaih, along with a few other scattered words and names). This is out of a total 23,145 Old Testament verses. Most scholars believe the original version of all the New Testament was a form of Greek (though notably somewhat different than what is normally known as "ancient Greek.")--[[Special:Contributions/172.68.38.94|172.68.38.94]] 05:19, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

There's also a [https://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicipaedia:Pagina_prima Latin Wikipedia] and an [https://ang.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C4%93afodtramet Old English Wikipedia]. [[User:KangaroOS|Kangaro]][[User talk:KangaroOS|OS]] 14:53, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
:There would have been an Ancient Greek Wikipedia too if not for Yaroslav Zolotaryov and Siberian - [https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Ancient_Greek_2 the proposal] was effectively accepted, and only a little bit short of fulfillment, when the Siberian debacle had Wikimedia revise their acceptance system in October 2007. Alas, despite several re-proposals, there is no Ancient Greek Wikipedia to this day, and realistically there would probably only be one if someone raises a child as an Ancient Greek native speaker. (This had happened with Coptic.) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.182.148|162.158.182.148]] 15:47, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Btw there's no Greek Wikipedia page for Xkcd :) [[Special:Contributions/172.68.51.166|172.68.51.166]] 14:58, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
:Well, it would rather be for χκcδ [[Special:Contributions/198.41.230.112|198.41.230.112]] 15:44, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
::Rather ξκcδ/ξκσδ as xi (not chi) is equivalent to 'x'. The lunate sigma is rather uncommon. Of course I think if we're talking about ancient Greek there were no lowercase letters so it'd be ΞΚΣΔ. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.189.175|172.68.189.175]] 16:08, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
:::Am I the only one who read ΞΚΣΔ as being startlingly close (visually) to IKEA?[[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.22|162.158.126.22]] 16:32, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
:::: Nah, first thing I noticed. :) [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 04:27, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
::: Nope. Thought the same thing and suddenly wondered if the xkcd name origin story has finally been proven to be a hoax. Have we all been had?[[User:Iggynelix|Iggynelix]] ([[User talk:Iggynelix|talk]]) 19:31, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Hello, everyone! I have been consulting this wiki for a lot of time now, but this is the first time I edit. I edited the 'the New Testament of the Bible being the most notable' sentence because the New Testament is hardly the only notable work in Ancient Greek. In fact, while I'm not familiar with the situation in the U.S., in schools in the EU where I've studied or my mother (who went to Catholic school) has studied, texts from the New Testament were not even taught. Part of the reason for this is that the New Testament uses Koine Greek, which is a later variant of what is commonly called "Ancient Greek". I also think it's worth mentioning that Ancient Greek is quite commonly studied in many European countries even by high-school students, not only by dedicated scholars. [[User:AleksanderV|AleksanderV]] ([[User talk:AleksanderV|talk]]) 18:45, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Made a small correction by removing Socrates from the list of people who wrote in Greek, since Socrates did not in fact write anything! (or, at least, no original works from Socrates survive, even though some of his followers wrote dialogues with Socrates as a character) ~High Falutin Scholar

Man, you guys '''all got the joke wrong'''! The ARTICLE isn't in Greek, it's Wikipedia's MENUS and screen ELEMENTS that are in Greek! The article itself is still in English, but you're reading it in a Greek "environment". I added a paragraph to clear that up, while leaving the good wrong stuff still there, since it's not wrong in the right context. [[User:N0lqu|-boB]] ([[User talk:N0lqu|talk]]) 19:44, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
:No, that seems wrong. In the sidebar is the link to the Wikipedia in Greek, it's even more difficult to find the Greek language settings for the menus and such. Also the reference in the title text to the articles being shorter only makes sense of it's a different language version.--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.93.93|162.158.93.93]] 22:43, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
::Yeah, clicking the option in the lower left does change the language of the articles, not just the menu and screen elements. After all otherwise the title text wouldn't make sense, as it is referencing how the amount of content in Wikipedia is much lower in most languages other than English, especially languages with relatively few speakers (there are much fewer people who speak Greek than English worldwide), resulting in both shorter articles and fewer total articles, so many English articles wouldn't have a Greek version at all. In any case, the paragraph you added should be removed.--[[Special:Contributions/172.68.38.94|172.68.38.94]] 05:19, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
:As others have said, you are incorrect and I've removed your changes. You can try the procedure Cueball recommended yourself - it links you to the actual Greek Wikipedia rather than just changing the interface. Furthermore, the alt-text backs this up, since the joke about articles being shorter only makes sense if Cueball is viewing the actual Greek Wikipedia (articles there are shorter due to it being newer and having fewer editors. Obviously they would be the same length if he was only changing the interface.) The joke is that that should have cued him in to the fact that the Greek language was not the original, but instead he invented another ridiculous explanation for it. --[[User:Aquillion|Aquillion]] ([[User talk:Aquillion|talk]]) 23:35, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
:When I did it exactly like the comic said, it changed the screen elements to Greek, but left me on the English wikipedia (en.wikipedia.org), so maybe there are different modes for changing. But I concede the point about the articles being shorter pointing to the original explanation being the correct one. [[User:N0lqu|-boB]] ([[User talk:N0lqu|talk]]) 17:46, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

I feel very stupid, but could someone explain the reason why Greek is considered to be the "original language"? Greek is not the origin of all the languages in Wikipedia, it's not even the origin of English. Ancient Greece is the origin of much of the western culture, but much of it is still older or coming from differnt parts of the world. Or am I totally on the wrong leg here, and is it just a play on the word Wikipedia? Anyway, the choice of Greek as the original language in this comic could use some explaining. --[[User:Pbb|Pbb]] ([[User talk:Pbb|talk]]) 18:39, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
:Encyclopedias (the concept, the word, and the root that lends itself to "Wikipedia") have Greek origins, so Cueball is declaring that since PART of the word is Greek, that this is the original language of Wikipedia. [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 04:38, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

Just a random comment, but I think there is another important reason why one may wants to read the original Greek version of something. That is, when you’re interested in poems. For anyone who actually reads Greek poems even a little, it is VERY obvious that they are “musical” so to speak (this is NOT a pedantic opinion, it’s quite intuitive, you can feel it): the pitch accents of the language and rhythms of the verses (e.g. hexameter of Homer) automatically create “melodies”, and these melodies go magically well with the meaning of the verses — e.g. a furious melody when the phrase is furious, a light-hearted melody when the phrase is light-hearted, and so on. The effect (music-meaning combination) is so overwhelming and fascinating that probably it is untranslatable.

As for the New Testament, I agree that it’s not a good example here, which might cause unnecessary religious wars too, when this xkcd piece is not related to religions at all. That said, just fyi, there are quite a few places where you understand the Greek NT better if you know Aramaic. E.g. “wind” and “spirit” are the same word in Aramaic; knowing that, John 20:22, Acts 2:2-4, etc. suddenly make sense. Also some phrases of the Greek NT are actually written in Aramaic: e.g. in Mark 5:14 Jesus says, in Aramaic, ܛܠܝܬܐ ܩܘܡܝ
which might sound mystic, but actually it’s just a normal, daily sentence that simply means “Girl, stand up!”
Also in 1Cor 16:22, they say “Our lord, come!” in Aramaic. (I’m not a religious person, just studying Syriac as a hobby. Sorry if this is boring for you.) Incidentally, the word “Holy Spirit” is feminine in Aramaic. When Jesus or John talked about it, they meant “she”. This piece of trivia might interest you.

PS: Another commentator said that Koine and the “normal” Greek (Attic) were different; which is true, but they are not so different. Usually one can use the same Greek-English dictionary when they read whichever (Attic, Koine, and also Homeric Greek). — [[User:Yosei|Yosei]] ([[User talk:Yosei|talk]]) 01:52, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

If the dubbing is made well it can be good. Especially if you just want to enjoy e.g. a TV-show while it is running in the background, and while also looking at your phone. It is much easier (at least for me) in my native language. When I actively watch I usually prefer watching stuff that original is in English in English and everything else synchronized with a proper studio doing it into German. However the worst is when it is dubbed badly, or just as an overlay. For many shows like e.g. topgear they used to do this. You hear the guy starting a sentence in English, then suddenly it gets more silent and a German voice starts talking over it, but the original is still in the background. Also I fear for online media, such as youtube who have announced that they want to do dubbing by AI. They already do translate video titles by AI and it is just bad and not needed. especially since as a user I cannot turn it off. Just the video creater can opt out of that. But in my experience native English speakers do not really have a feeling for when such thing would be appropriate or not. E.g. why would I want to have the videotitle of a video of a guy talking for 30 mins translated? Either I think the video is in my language because the title is and will then not understand the video - or the other way round I can understand the video, then I will likely also understand the title. It may make sense for videos with no or only limited language in it. Also these translations often miss nuance and never translate humor properly. Rant over. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 08:20, 23 January 2025 (UTC)

Talk:3038: Uncanceled Units

2025-01-18T13:07:17Z

Lupo:

DUDE I'M STILL IN SCHOOL RN, WHAT?
(also, the joke is that energy is power*time, so kWh is kJ/s... in an hour [[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 13:27, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

I guess not every comic can be a winner. Talking about an appliance using a certain amount of kWH per day is clear and normal. Power gets billed by the kWh, not the Joule. While technically not wrong, wanting "cancel" a sub-part of the commonly-used energy unit kWh and leaving it in deliberately-obscured units most people are less familiar with is the sort of insanity I'd more expect from White Hat than Cueball. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.35.171|172.70.35.171]] 13:39, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
:Maybe that is a meta-joke? To frame kWh/day as something crazy by giving that line to whitehat --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 13:52, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
:There's a difference between instantaneous power draw, and the total "volume"(/area, really) of power over time. Though a fridge is "always on", it is still only irregularly at full-draw. But, to the power company (or to the gas company, who will generally give a kWh measure of 'energy taken from the network'), they don't (generally) care whether you used twice as many kW over half the time or half as many over twice the time, within any given total billing period, even if it affects what you think. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.163.46|172.70.163.46]] 14:39, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
::Using joule as if it was an everyday unit of energy would be weird but I don't agree that watt is crazy. It's a normal unit of energy consumption that does mean something to people, e.g. 1000W microwave, 100W (incandescent) light bulb. Don't get me wrong kWh/day is also useful to translate it to your energy bill, but I do feel slightly uncomfortable every time I see that time divided by time :-) [[User:Mtcv|Mtcv]] ([[User talk:Mtcv|talk]]) 14:40, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
:I don't think the complaint is that it's unclear, it's that Cueball/Randall instinctively wants units simplified - as they would be in a science context rather than a useful-for-normal-people's-everyday-needs context. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.183|108.162.238.183]] 02:40, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
:Yes, it is normal, but to people who know what it means it hurts to look at. kWh are a measure of energy that is technically SI-friendly and at a useful scale, but from an scientific perspective there isn't a great reason (to my knowledge) other than convention to not just use megajoules (1 kWh is 3.6 MJ). That on its own bothers me, and probably Randal based on a lot of his other comics. The added complaint here is that by making them per/day it is back to a measure of power (which kW measure) [[User:Stardragon|Stardragon]] ([[User talk:Stardragon|talk]]) 23:34, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

This is especially funny with US units. My car needs about 5l/100km, or 0.05mm². Now I am wondering how many ft^(-2) my car does... --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 13:49, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
: You make a good point about the units (at least in one instance). Shouldn't the reduced units for fuel economy be inverse area? Effectively, it is a measure of the distance the vehicle could travel while consuming a column of fuel with a specific height and specific top (or bottom) surface area. Or, The better the fuel economy, the less the surface area that is necessary to move a specific distance. [[User:SammyChips|SammyChips]] ([[User talk:SammyChips|talk]]) 20:41, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
::It depends on what the original unit is. In my country (Germany) we measure it in volume/distance, which would reduce to area. North American convention is in distance/volume which would reduce to inverse area. Good thing about distance/volume is that "high number = good". However I think outside of escaping from a nuclear disaster or in a zombie apocalypse it isn't a really helpful thing to know. Because how often do you know "I got x amount of fuel. Wonder how far I can get." But you will likely be in the situation where you quickly want to see "How much fuel do I need to get to place x which is y distance from here". --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 21:57, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
::: how often do you know "I got x amount of fuel. Wonder how far I can get." Quite often, because the question I'm really asking is whether I can get where I'm going with some margin built in before I need to refuel my car. When I do refuel or recharge the car, I'll go to 100% of capacity. I just want to know whether I have to do that now or if I can wait and do it later because later would be more convenient. The only time I want the number the other way is when I'm buying a car and want to make it as efficient as possible. Once I have it, the amount of fuel I need isn't going to change.[[User:Yttrium|Yttrium]] ([[User talk:Yttrium|talk]]) 09:02, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
::::Mhh... probably a question of what one is used to. If I need to go 400 km, and I know my car uses 5l/100km, I just multiply 4*5 to see that I need 20l, and will know if what I have is enough or not. But I guess with mpg you can do a just as easy calc: If my car gets 50mpg (roughly 5l/100km) and I have 5 gallons (roughly 20l), I can go 50*5=250 miles, which is roughly 400km. My nitpick is: My car, and I think all cars I ever drove just shows me a dial from empty to full. Knowing how much "full" is, I can estimate how much gas I have, while my GPS will tell me a pretty exact number of km I need to go. So if I am fuelling up on a monday morning (where gas tends to be more expensive in my area than on other times), or fuel up right before I get my next salary, I might just put in as much as I need right now. But yes, maybe/probably it is mostly a thing about habits and what you are used to. And might be more of an European issue, since fuel is basically free in North America in comparison. So I guess everyone just fuels up fully all the time, but has to be cautious to reach the next gas station when travelling through the more sparely-populated areas...--[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 10:19, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
:: More usefully imagined as the front (or back) end of a horizontal column (or, twisting as it may, a pipeline) that traverses the journey made by the vehicle. As if (instantaneous variations excepted) you consume precisely the fuel that your vehicle passes 'through/around'. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.76.92|141.101.76.92]] 20:45, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
::: Yeah. Maybe we should express fuel consumption in terms of the speed fuel needs to be drawn through a standard fuel line. [[User:SammyChips|SammyChips]] ([[User talk:SammyChips|talk]]) 21:01, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

fridge [[Special:Contributions/172.70.126.147|172.70.126.147]] 14:22, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

The late [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_J._C._MacKay Sir David MacKay] wrote an excellent book, [http://www.withouthotair.com/ Sustainable Energy – without the hot air] (which is available free online).
On [http://www.withouthotair.com/c2/page_24.shtml this page] he talks about the units he uses in the book: kWh for energy ("one unit") and kWh/day for power - becuase it's simple for lay-people to understand - how many units does this appliance use per day.
It's a good book if any of you are interested in sustainable energy (although it was written in 2008, so some bits might be out of date by now) {{unsigned ip|172.70.85.33|14:33, 15 January 2025}}

If anyone's curious, I found an online gallons per square foot calculator: https://www.omnicalculator.com/construction/gallons-per-square-foot [[Special:Contributions/172.71.223.6|172.71.223.6]] 15:54, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

The answer to Cueball's question is likely NO in the US and YES in the UK, due not just to gallon size but also fridge size (a model like that is a particularly large fridge, when I bought one 10 years ago going for the smallest available I had to modify my cabinet above the fridge as there wasn't one less than 6'8"- the fridge hole was 6' previous).[[User:Seebert|Seebert]] ([[User talk:Seebert|talk]]) 16:02, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

I disagree with this comic, and I think the final paragraph in the explanation about Hubble's constant best explains why. [[User:Beanie|Beanie]] [[User talk:Beanie|talk]] 15:57, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
:It doesn't make any sense to 'disagree' with an observation.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.245|141.101.98.245]] 09:36, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
::"[My] Pet peeve" so the comic is expressing an opinion [[Special:Contributions/172.68.3.36|172.68.3.36]] 03:38, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

Hubble's constant can be expressed in reciprocal seconds, but it should not be expressed in Hz. Hz are reserved for repeating phenomenon. There is insufficient evidence of a cyclic universe. Using Hz could be an attempt to insert an unwarranted assumption into cosmology. This type of subtle "propaganda through choice of units" happens fairly often. Changing units can give a different perspective. Usually this will be through simplification because there is no algorithmic method to choose useful complex units.[[Special:Contributions/172.71.167.69|172.71.167.69]] 18:32, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

Technically, kWh should be written as kW⋅h or kW h, because it literally means "kilowatts multiplied by one hour", not "kilowatts per hour" as many people assume. However, almost nobody writes it correctly. (kW/h is sometimes also seen, but egregiously incorrect.) Also, particularly now that electric vehicles are becoming more popular, people often get confused between kW and kW h. The car can charge at a peak or average rate expressed in kW, but energy billed by a charging service provider is expressed in kWh. People frequently either add or remove the "h" incorrectly because they don't understand the difference. In some places like India, a kilowatt-hour is simply referred to as a "unit" to avoid confusion. In my opinion, it was an enormous mistake to use kWh when we could be using mJ instead, which I think is probably something close to the point Randall may have been trying to make. Anyway, I wasn't sure if there was a place for any of this random trivia in the article itself, but feel free to use it. [[User:Equites|Equites]] ([[User talk:Equites|talk]]) 17:11, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
: No!. TF?. ms is meter times seconds, m/s is meter per second. There is NOTHING wrong with kWh, it literally means kW times hours, and CANNOT mean anything else. kW per hour would be kW/h.. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.160.34|172.71.160.34]] 12:41, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
:: Technically, the SI would have you write m s for meter-seconds and ms for milliseconds. Thus, similarly, it should be kW h for kilowatt-hours, not kWh. It is unambiguous either way, but the standard is the standard. But that is a totally bizarre thing to get hung up on. Also, Equites's suggestion to use millijoules instead was maybe not well thought-out. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.15.234|172.68.15.234]] 17:45, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

Relevant XKCD… I mean relevant YouTube video: "Cursed units" 1 and 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkfIXUjkYqE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg7xe8MkJHs [[User:Fabian42|Fabian42]] ([[User talk:Fabian42|talk]]) 17:31, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

: Highly relevant, in fact. The first video referred to the kilowatt-hour as "cursed", which became a highly polarizing issue in the comments, something that was addressed at the beginning of part 2. Assuming these responses weren't cherry-picked, I get the impression that there are a lot of people on both sides of this. It seems like the same kind of thing we're seeing in this very comment section. [[User:ISaveXKCDpapers|ISaveXKCDpapers]] ([[User talk:ISaveXKCDpapers|talk]]) 18:10, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

I always wonder why people here prefer liter/m^2 for the amount of rain. Where the same number as mm is way easier to imagine. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.50.99|172.68.50.99]] 18:14, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
: At first, I was wondering if you would have rather had it in microliters/mm^2, but you meant the column height of the rain, like inches are used in the US. Along the line of L/m^2, something like mL/cm^2 might be nice considering the density of water, although the value also would be different by a factor. [[User:SammyChips|SammyChips]] ([[User talk:SammyChips|talk]]) 20:51, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
: That's the neat thing about the metric system, they are trivially simple to convert. 1l/m² is exactly 1mm. The fact that the meteorology uses the former just stems from the fact that that's how they measure it. The catch the rain on an area of 1m² into a beaker that contains some volume which is measured in liters. What annoys me though, is that noone seems to be talking about how terribly inefficient the fridge in the comic is. Mine only needs a tenth of the one that Whitehat tries to sell, and that's not even particularly good. --21:21, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
:: UK measurements, once it gets to weather reports/forecasts, tend to be in millimetres (or centimetres, where more for the layperson who don't need mm-resulution; or occasionally recast as 'old money' inches, with ''really'' bad rain events summarised in relation to whole feet), which is implicitly the depth to which ''any'' area would be filled (in a case where large catchment + funnelling valley situation is concerned, suffering from the run-off, might be ''reported'' as "equivalent to ''N'' feet of rain", down where the bad effects get concentrated, but this is not a meteorological measure as such).
:: Not sure I've ever seen volume/area as an end-result figure (might be relevent as an intermediate for measurement/calculation, especially when discussing the funelling effects of the given local geography), but of course it's trivially relatable.
:: Density of water would only figure in from replacing litres with kilogrammes (litres are 1/1000th of metres³ and any m² is 10,000 times the cm² (or millilitre), so a factor of 10 between L/m² and mL/cm²; divide L to mL by 1000, times m² to cm² by 10,000, => 10x) but I always find it useful to know that three 2L bottles of pop are (very close to, going by the nominal water content alone) 6kg... makes me feel better about lugging the weekly shopping home, where these might be the single most significant part of the weight. More usefully than cross-converting into length-cubed measure. ;) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.69|141.101.98.69]] 21:42, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

Isn't the point that KwH/day can be simplified to Watts (an average perhaps, but still) {{unsigned ip|162.158.41.72|21:24, 15 January 2025}}
: Yes, the joke seems pretty clearly about watts or kilowatts, not megajoules. Using megajoules doesn't result in any units being canceled; the denominator remains "/day". [[User:BatmanAoD|BatmanAoD]] ([[User talk:BatmanAoD|talk]]) 23:52, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

If the argument for kWh/day is that it's easy for the consumer to understand how it will affect their electricity bill – then kWh/month would be the right choice, because I doubt anyone receives an electricity bill every day. But the salesman prefers 3 kWh/day because it sounds like a smaller number than 90 kWh/month. And of course, if electricity bills were written in joules instead of illogical watt-hours, then MJ/month would be the easiest for the consumer. {{unsigned ip|162.158.134.90|22:31, 15 January 2025}}
:Per-month is tricky. You seem to assume month=30 days, when it can be 28-31 and is only 30 days a third of the time. Per quarter(-year) is a bit more consistent, less fractionally variant ''and'' closer to most utility bill frequencies as well, if you're looking for something not as eye-wateringly frightening as an annual estimate (which 'only' varies every 4.1237... years, on average). [[Special:Contributions/172.70.163.47|172.70.163.47]] 00:21, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
:: "''Per-month is tricky. You seem to assume month=30 days, when it can be 28-31...''" My electric bill for December 2024 is 33 days. The company closes the book when it is convenient, not per some calendar. --[[User:PRR|PRR]] ([[User talk:PRR|talk]]) 05:22, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Which is why electric consumption per month is even more tricky. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 06:33, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
:::It's still per some calendar. Just a calendar
of the electric company, that you're not privy to.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.245|141.101.98.245]] 09:36, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
:::: facepalm and yes you are right, if you include that the meter reader may be a week late because of healing from pet related off work time from reading an electric meter in a back yard. And usually the person who turns the reading into a bill isn't sick. ... Pretty sure my electric company really loves the "phones home every 83 seconds" new meter they installed a few yag. The old and new meters are pretty much a wall wart with a screw on shield. I was surprised by no dead spiders in the socket on the replace.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.34.72|172.70.34.72]] 00:23, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
::It's an average. We're not talking specifically about February. You could multiply by 365.24/12 and get 91.31 kWh/month on average – but there's only one significant figure in 3 kWh/day. White Hat doesn't say 3.000 kWh/day. You have to round 91.31 to 90 to avoid false precision.
::The stated average is an estimate based on assumptions about how much you'll fill the fridge, how often you'll open the door, how long you'll leave the door open, the room temperature in your kitchen, how much surrounding cabinets will restrict air flow across the condenser, et cetera. The combined uncertainties make it meaningless to state a highly precise power consumption. The length of the month is just one of many sources of variation. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.134.90|162.158.134.90]] 10:40, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Ahem... "multiply by 365.24'''25'''/12". As anyone with a fridge at least 125-years-old would appreciate... ;) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.178|141.101.98.178]] 12:23, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

I suspect this comic is inspired by the much more common pet peeve of incorrect/nonsensical units, frequently encountered in similar contexts. I'm so used to hearing kWh mistakenly written simply as kW, that I initially misread and assumed that's what the comic is about. That's a particularly common example, where you'll hear battery capacities listed in kW, or instantaneous power described in watt-hours. [[User:PotatoGod|PotatoGod]] ([[User talk:PotatoGod|talk]]) 09:53, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
:{{w|Calorie#Chemistry and physics|Calories}} vs. {{w|Calorie#Nutrition|calories}}, also... ;) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.178|141.101.98.178]] 12:23, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
: Yeah, get it straight people! Instantaneous battery discharge rate should be in some scale of watt-hours per second :P All this hassle because apparently nobody likes Joules or Coulombs as a unit. Besides the obvious unit cancelation thing, why would kilowatt-hours be more of a thing than watt-seconds anyway, since they are the same general order of magnitude? SammyChips 16:05, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

It could be worse.. I keep seeing TVs marked in kWh per 1000 hours... That is just insanity pure and simple.. It is in fact Watts!!![[Special:Contributions/172.71.160.34|172.71.160.34]] 12:38, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
:This is even some kind of a "standard", officially. See first image in here: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_21_4484
:Also, world power consumption is almost exclusively represented in TWh per year, because TW is obviously not a thing. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.50.6|172.68.50.6]] 13:42, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
:That whole kerfluffle is mentioned in the "Cursed Units 2" video linked above. [[User:AdmiralMemo|Admiral Memo]] ([[User talk:AdmiralMemo|talk]]) 01:58, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

Can I be the obnoxious arse that points out that a 125W fridge will NOT be pulling 3kWh (or 3 units?) per day? Fridges run a compressor which makes the cold happen (via science and magic) and when there's enough cold in the box, it'll click off until cold is lacking. The durations will depend on ambient temperature, however observing my (oldish) fridge, it seems to run for about fifty seconds every four or five minutes.
[[Special:Contributions/141.101.69.92|141.101.69.92]] 18:45, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
:Fridge is actually heating device: it heats up your kitchen by pumping the heat from inside to outside. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 22:32, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
:: It's actually a heat pump, moving heat from one location to another. Whether a heat pump is a heating device or a cooling device depends entirely on your perspective. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.246.148|172.69.246.148]] 23:17, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

There is actually a good reason to differentiate between Wh/h (energy over time) and W (power): Non-constant consumption. If the fridge consumes 3kWh/d, its compressor will be rated in the 300-400W nominal range (the thermostatic controller will cycle the compressor on and off; for a modern fridge-freezer combination, a typical duty cycle would be in the 25-30% range). The unit nameplate will say "400W" because that's the rated power the electrical installation will have to be designed for (how many of these fridges can you put on a 20A breaker etc.). This is only determined by the physical properties of the compressor motor. The energy consumption additionally depends on insulation, internal space of the cabinet etc. etc. and only makes sense as a time average (due to the intermittent operation of the compressor). Not sure about US rules, but here in Europe, there's a standard energy class label for fridges which specifies kWh/a as a primary means of comparison. (Averaging over a year has the advantage that you can test against a standardized profile of ambient temperature change between summer and winter).
[[User:Ogehrke|Ogehrke]] ([[User talk:Ogehrke|talk]]) 21:28, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

The explanation incorrectly states that fuel efficiency in the metric system is measured in km/l. It's not. It's measured in l/km, so it reduces to area, not 1/area.[[Special:Contributions/172.71.182.77|172.71.182.77]] 22:40, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
:I recall seeing a book in my youth about "understanding units" that included great things like viscosity and explanations for why E=mc² cancels units properly. But they got to gasoline consumption, and used the analogy that the "area" represented here is the equivalent of the area of an adjacent trough of gas that would have to be scooped up by your car to keep it running. Very interesting way of illustrating unit cancellation. [[User:RandalSchwartz|RandalSchwartz]] ([[User talk:RandalSchwartz|talk]]) 23:05, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

Am I the only one bothered by the low ceiling? I hate rooms where I can't stretch without bumping. I had to come here to make sure I hadn't miscalculated the ceiling height. [[User:DougM|DougM]] ([[User talk:DougM|talk]]) 00:21, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
:Just assume that Cueball is using british gallons to further mess with the units. As the explanation that makes the room 2.44m which is a pretty standard - although still not very high - room height. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 06:29, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

Isn't there a joke about the salesman as well? Maybe I'm thinking too european, but kWh x 365 days = 1095 kWh/year seems ridiculously high to me. {{unsigned ip|172.70.247.41|12:10, 17 January 2025}}

German weather forecasts report rain as liters per square meter instead of millimeters. --[[Special:Contributions/172.69.109.87|172.69.109.87]] 12:55, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

re "there are cases where uncancelled units can be helpful to understanding the concept", something about mixing ratios could be added. E.g. 10g/kg and 10mL/L are both 1% ratios, but expressing them as uncancelled makes it clear that one is a ratio by mass and one is a ratio by volume. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.208.76|172.70.208.76]] 21:12, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
:also dosages for medicine. At least for pets it is often mg/kg. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 13:07, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

I used to tell people I work 7.5 hours per day, but after reading this comic I'm going to switch to saying I work 0.3125 with no units. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.36|172.70.162.36]] 22:48, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
:Go the other way and ''add'' combinable units... 0.3125 Hertz-seconds. Or go ''really'' wild with the ratio. I'm sure you could work out how many "lumen per hectare-luxes" it would be (3125?)... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.119|162.158.74.119]] 23:22, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

Talk:3039: Human Altitude

2025-01-18T13:05:30Z

Lupo:

I splurged a few paragraphs to try to deal with each detail (and a few things not ''directly'' obvious, but related). However, it's a mess and here (UK) it's basically past my bedtime and I have an early(ish) start tomorrow so... I know that if I had spent another half hour on it, it would have been tighter (less florid?), and would be linking to Yuri Gagarin, Montgolfier, Hubble, man-capable chinese kites, the likes of George Cayley, etc. And I never actually ''mentioned'' the Title Text, though the last paragraph I put is sort of relevent so might just need an "In the title text, it says ..., and, as it happens, ...". I shall leave it up to the editing-gods as to whether my sacrifice is acceptable or entirely in vain... Such is life! And so, goodnight. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.119|172.68.205.119]] 01:39, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
:I linked up a couple Wikipedia articles with [[Template:w]] and wish I could add all of those things, but alas: today’s the last day of the semester on a 3 day weekend here in the States and I’ve been sick all week. I’m going to be going now to work on my missing assignments and hopefully finish them, really wish that we can finish up the explanation as quick as we usually do! '''[[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]][[User talk:42.book.addict|Talk to me!]]''' 01:48, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
It seems strange how jagged this is and how low the lows are. Since roughly 1930 (certainly since 1940 at the very latest) someone, somewhere in the world has been flying in an airplane, at a minimum of probably 4.5km for the lowest person. And since like 1955 there's always at least someone over like 7km roughly, and since the jet age like 10km+. This isn't the kind of carelessness that xkcd is known for, unless I'm missing something.[[User:Kchinger|Kchinger]] ([[User talk:Kchinger|talk]]) 03:27, 18 January 2025 (UTC)kchinger

Some of the text (both in the explanation and the "into snow or water" in the title text) seems to suggest a "who wasn't shortly killed" that isn't stated in the chart. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.246.150|172.69.246.150]] 05:55, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
:"into snow or water" is in the title text which is about surviving... --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 13:05, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

I wonder why the chart does not consider parachutes? They might have been available around the same time as balloons, maybe earlier? [[User:Captain Nemo|Captain Nemo]] ([[User talk:Captain Nemo|talk]]) 12:29, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

Talk:3038: Uncanceled Units

2025-01-17T06:29:26Z

Lupo:

DUDE I'M STILL IN SCHOOL RN, WHAT?
(also, the joke is that energy is power*time, so kWh is kJ/s... in an hour [[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 13:27, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

I guess not every comic can be a winner. Talking about an appliance using a certain amount of kWH per day is clear and normal. Power gets billed by the kWh, not the Joule. While technically not wrong, wanting "cancel" a sub-part of the commonly-used energy unit kWh and leaving it in deliberately-obscured units most people are less familiar with is the sort of insanity I'd more expect from White Hat than Cueball. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.35.171|172.70.35.171]] 13:39, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
:Maybe that is a meta-joke? To frame kWh/day as something crazy by giving that line to whitehat --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 13:52, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
:There's a difference between instantaneous power draw, and the total "volume"(/area, really) of power over time. Though a fridge is "always on", it is still only irregularly at full-draw. But, to the power company (or to the gas company, who will generally give a kWh measure of 'energy taken from the network'), they don't (generally) care whether you used twice as many kW over half the time or half as many over twice the time, within any given total billing period, even if it affects what you think. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.163.46|172.70.163.46]] 14:39, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
::Using joule as if it was an everyday unit of energy would be weird but I don't agree that watt is crazy. It's a normal unit of energy consumption that does mean something to people, e.g. 1000W microwave, 100W (incandescent) light bulb. Don't get me wrong kWh/day is also useful to translate it to your energy bill, but I do feel slightly uncomfortable every time I see that time divided by time :-) [[User:Mtcv|Mtcv]] ([[User talk:Mtcv|talk]]) 14:40, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
:I don't think the complaint is that it's unclear, it's that Cueball/Randall instinctively wants units simplified - as they would be in a science context rather than a useful-for-normal-people's-everyday-needs context. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.183|108.162.238.183]] 02:40, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
:Yes, it is normal, but to people who know what it means it hurts to look at. kWh are a measure of energy that is technically SI-friendly and at a useful scale, but from an scientific perspective there isn't a great reason (to my knowledge) other than convention to not just use megajoules (1 kWh is 3.6 MJ). That on its own bothers me, and probably Randal based on a lot of his other comics. The added complaint here is that by making them per/day it is back to a measure of power (which kW measure) [[User:Stardragon|Stardragon]] ([[User talk:Stardragon|talk]]) 23:34, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

This is especially funny with US units. My car needs about 5l/100km, or 0.05mm². Now I am wondering how many ft^(-2) my car does... --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 13:49, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
: You make a good point about the units (at least in one instance). Shouldn't the reduced units for fuel economy be inverse area? Effectively, it is a measure of the distance the vehicle could travel while consuming a column of fuel with a specific height and specific top (or bottom) surface area. Or, The better the fuel economy, the less the surface area that is necessary to move a specific distance. [[User:SammyChips|SammyChips]] ([[User talk:SammyChips|talk]]) 20:41, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
::It depends on what the original unit is. In my country (Germany) we measure it in volume/distance, which would reduce to area. North American convention is in distance/volume which would reduce to inverse area. Good thing about distance/volume is that "high number = good". However I think outside of escaping from a nuclear disaster or in a zombie apocalypse it isn't a really helpful thing to know. Because how often do you know "I got x amount of fuel. Wonder how far I can get." But you will likely be in the situation where you quickly want to see "How much fuel do I need to get to place x which is y distance from here". --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 21:57, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
::: how often do you know "I got x amount of fuel. Wonder how far I can get." Quite often, because the question I'm really asking is whether I can get where I'm going with some margin built in before I need to refuel my car. When I do refuel or recharge the car, I'll go to 100% of capacity. I just want to know whether I have to do that now or if I can wait and do it later because later would be more convenient. The only time I want the number the other way is when I'm buying a car and want to make it as efficient as possible. Once I have it, the amount of fuel I need isn't going to change.[[User:Yttrium|Yttrium]] ([[User talk:Yttrium|talk]]) 09:02, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
::::Mhh... probably a question of what one is used to. If I need to go 400 km, and I know my car uses 5l/100km, I just multiply 4*5 to see that I need 20l, and will know if what I have is enough or not. But I guess with mpg you can do a just as easy calc: If my car gets 50mpg (roughly 5l/100km) and I have 5 gallons (roughly 20l), I can go 50*5=250 miles, which is roughly 400km. My nitpick is: My car, and I think all cars I ever drove just shows me a dial from empty to full. Knowing how much "full" is, I can estimate how much gas I have, while my GPS will tell me a pretty exact number of km I need to go. So if I am fuelling up on a monday morning (where gas tends to be more expensive in my area than on other times), or fuel up right before I get my next salary, I might just put in as much as I need right now. But yes, maybe/probably it is mostly a thing about habits and what you are used to. And might be more of an European issue, since fuel is basically free in North America in comparison. So I guess everyone just fuels up fully all the time, but has to be cautious to reach the next gas station when travelling through the more sparely-populated areas...--[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 10:19, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
:: More usefully imagined as the front (or back) end of a horizontal column (or, twisting as it may, a pipeline) that traverses the journey made by the vehicle. As if (instantaneous variations excepted) you consume precisely the fuel that your vehicle passes 'through/around'. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.76.92|141.101.76.92]] 20:45, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
::: Yeah. Maybe we should express fuel consumption in terms of the speed fuel needs to be drawn through a standard fuel line. [[User:SammyChips|SammyChips]] ([[User talk:SammyChips|talk]]) 21:01, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

fridge [[Special:Contributions/172.70.126.147|172.70.126.147]] 14:22, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

The late [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_J._C._MacKay Sir David MacKay] wrote an excellent book, [http://www.withouthotair.com/ Sustainable Energy – without the hot air] (which is available free online).
On [http://www.withouthotair.com/c2/page_24.shtml this page] he talks about the units he uses in the book: kWh for energy ("one unit") and kWh/day for power - becuase it's simple for lay-people to understand - how many units does this appliance use per day.
It's a good book if any of you are interested in sustainable energy (although it was written in 2008, so some bits might be out of date by now) {{unsigned ip|172.70.85.33|14:33, 15 January 2025}}

If anyone's curious, I found an online gallons per square foot calculator: https://www.omnicalculator.com/construction/gallons-per-square-foot [[Special:Contributions/172.71.223.6|172.71.223.6]] 15:54, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

The answer to Cueball's question is likely NO in the US and YES in the UK, due not just to gallon size but also fridge size (a model like that is a particularly large fridge, when I bought one 10 years ago going for the smallest available I had to modify my cabinet above the fridge as there wasn't one less than 6'8"- the fridge hole was 6' previous).[[User:Seebert|Seebert]] ([[User talk:Seebert|talk]]) 16:02, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

I disagree with this comic, and I think the final paragraph in the explanation about Hubble's constant best explains why. [[User:Beanie|Beanie]] [[User talk:Beanie|talk]] 15:57, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
:It doesn't make any sense to 'disagree' with an observation.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.245|141.101.98.245]] 09:36, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

Technically, kWh should be written as kW⋅h or kW h, because it literally means "kilowatts multiplied by one hour", not "kilowatts per hour" as many people assume. However, almost nobody writes it correctly. (kW/h is sometimes also seen, but egregiously incorrect.) Also, particularly now that electric vehicles are becoming more popular, people often get confused between kW and kW h. The car can charge at a peak or average rate expressed in kW, but energy billed by a charging service provider is expressed in kWh. People frequently either add or remove the "h" incorrectly because they don't understand the difference. In some places like India, a kilowatt-hour is simply referred to as a "unit" to avoid confusion. In my opinion, it was an enormous mistake to use kWh when we could be using mJ instead, which I think is probably something close to the point Randall may have been trying to make. Anyway, I wasn't sure if there was a place for any of this random trivia in the article itself, but feel free to use it. [[User:Equites|Equites]] ([[User talk:Equites|talk]]) 17:11, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
: No!. TF?. ms is meter times seconds, m/s is meter per second. There is NOTHING wrong with kWh, it literally means kW times hours, and CANNOT mean anything else. kW per hour would be kW/h.. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.160.34|172.71.160.34]] 12:41, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
:: Technically, the SI would have you write m s for meter-seconds and ms for milliseconds. Thus, similarly, it should be kW h for kilowatt-hours, not kWh. It is unambiguous either way, but the standard is the standard. But that is a totally bizarre thing to get hung up on. Also, Equites's suggestion to use millijoules instead was maybe not well thought-out. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.15.234|172.68.15.234]] 17:45, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

Relevant XKCD… I mean relevant YouTube video: "Cursed units" 1 and 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkfIXUjkYqE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg7xe8MkJHs [[User:Fabian42|Fabian42]] ([[User talk:Fabian42|talk]]) 17:31, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

: Highly relevant, in fact. The first video referred to the kilowatt-hour as "cursed", which became a highly polarizing issue in the comments, something that was addressed at the beginning of part 2. Assuming these responses weren't cherry-picked, I get the impression that there are a lot of people on both sides of this. It seems like the same kind of thing we're seeing in this very comment section. [[User:ISaveXKCDpapers|ISaveXKCDpapers]] ([[User talk:ISaveXKCDpapers|talk]]) 18:10, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

I always wonder why people here prefer liter/m^2 for the amount of rain. Where the same number as mm is way easier to imagine. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.50.99|172.68.50.99]] 18:14, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
: At first, I was wondering if you would have rather had it in microliters/mm^2, but you meant the column height of the rain, like inches are used in the US. Along the line of L/m^2, something like mL/cm^2 might be nice considering the density of water, although the value also would be different by a factor. [[User:SammyChips|SammyChips]] ([[User talk:SammyChips|talk]]) 20:51, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
: That's the neat thing about the metric system, they are trivially simple to convert. 1l/m² is exactly 1mm. The fact that the meteorology uses the former just stems from the fact that that's how they measure it. The catch the rain on an area of 1m² into a beaker that contains some volume which is measured in liters. What annoys me though, is that noone seems to be talking about how terribly inefficient the fridge in the comic is. Mine only needs a tenth of the one that Whitehat tries to sell, and that's not even particularly good. --21:21, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
:: UK measurements, once it gets to weather reports/forecasts, tend to be in millimetres (or centimetres, where more for the layperson who don't need mm-resulution; or occasionally recast as 'old money' inches, with ''really'' bad rain events summarised in relation to whole feet), which is implicitly the depth to which ''any'' area would be filled (in a case where large catchment + funnelling valley situation is concerned, suffering from the run-off, might be ''reported'' as "equivalent to ''N'' feet of rain", down where the bad effects get concentrated, but this is not a meteorological measure as such).
:: Not sure I've ever seen volume/area as an end-result figure (might be relevent as an intermediate for measurement/calculation, especially when discussing the funelling effects of the given local geography), but of course it's trivially relatable.
:: Density of water would only figure in from replacing litres with kilogrammes (litres are 1/1000th of metres³ and any m² is 10,000 times the cm² (or millilitre), so a factor of 10 between L/m² and mL/cm²; divide L to mL by 1000, times m² to cm² by 10,000, => 10x) but I always find it useful to know that three 2L bottles of pop are (very close to, going by the nominal water content alone) 6kg... makes me feel better about lugging the weekly shopping home, where these might be the single most significant part of the weight. More usefully than cross-converting into length-cubed measure. ;) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.69|141.101.98.69]] 21:42, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

Isn't the point that KwH/day can be simplified to Watts (an average perhaps, but still) {{unsigned ip|162.158.41.72|21:24, 15 January 2025}}
: Yes, the joke seems pretty clearly about watts or kilowatts, not megajoules. Using megajoules doesn't result in any units being canceled; the denominator remains "/day". [[User:BatmanAoD|BatmanAoD]] ([[User talk:BatmanAoD|talk]]) 23:52, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

If the argument for kWh/day is that it's easy for the consumer to understand how it will affect their electricity bill – then kWh/month would be the right choice, because I doubt anyone receives an electricity bill every day. But the salesman prefers 3 kWh/day because it sounds like a smaller number than 90 kWh/month. And of course, if electricity bills were written in joules instead of illogical watt-hours, then MJ/month would be the easiest for the consumer. {{unsigned ip|162.158.134.90|22:31, 15 January 2025}}
:Per-month is tricky. You seem to assume month=30 days, when it can be 28-31 and is only 30 days a third of the time. Per quarter(-year) is a bit more consistent, less fractionally variant ''and'' closer to most utility bill frequencies as well, if you're looking for something not as eye-wateringly frightening as an annual estimate (which 'only' varies every 4.1237... years, on average). [[Special:Contributions/172.70.163.47|172.70.163.47]] 00:21, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
:: "''Per-month is tricky. You seem to assume month=30 days, when it can be 28-31...''" My electric bill for December 2024 is 33 days. The company closes the book when it is convenient, not per some calendar. --[[User:PRR|PRR]] ([[User talk:PRR|talk]]) 05:22, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Which is why electric consumption per month is even more tricky. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 06:33, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
:::It's still per some calendar. Just a calendar of the electric company, that you're not privy to.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.245|141.101.98.245]] 09:36, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
::It's an average. We're not talking specifically about February. You could multiply by 365.24/12 and get 91.31 kWh/month on average – but there's only one significant figure in 3 kWh/day. White Hat doesn't say 3.000 kWh/day. You have to round 91.31 to 90 to avoid false precision.
::The stated average is an estimate based on assumptions about how much you'll fill the fridge, how often you'll open the door, how long you'll leave the door open, the room temperature in your kitchen, how much surrounding cabinets will restrict air flow across the condenser, et cetera. The combined uncertainties make it meaningless to state a highly precise power consumption. The length of the month is just one of many sources of variation. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.134.90|162.158.134.90]] 10:40, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Ahem... "multiply by 365.24'''25'''/12". As anyone with a fridge at least 125-years-old would appreciate... ;) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.178|141.101.98.178]] 12:23, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

I suspect this comic is inspired by the much more common pet peeve of incorrect/nonsensical units, frequently encountered in similar contexts. I'm so used to hearing kWh mistakenly written simply as kW, that I initially misread and assumed that's what the comic is about. That's a particularly common example, where you'll hear battery capacities listed in kW, or instantaneous power described in watt-hours. [[User:PotatoGod|PotatoGod]] ([[User talk:PotatoGod|talk]]) 09:53, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
:{{w|Calorie#Chemistry and physics|Calories}} vs. {{w|Calorie#Nutrition|calories}}, also... ;) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.178|141.101.98.178]] 12:23, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

It could be worse.. I keep seeing TVs marked in kWh per 1000 hours... That is just insanity pure and simple.. It is in fact Watts!!![[Special:Contributions/172.71.160.34|172.71.160.34]] 12:38, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
:This is even some kind of a "standard", officially. See first image in here: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_21_4484
:Also, world power consumption is almost exclusively represented in TWh per year, because TW is obviously not a thing. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.50.6|172.68.50.6]] 13:42, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
:That whole kerfluffle is mentioned in the "Cursed Units 2" video linked above. [[User:AdmiralMemo|Admiral Memo]] ([[User talk:AdmiralMemo|talk]]) 01:58, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

Can I be the obnoxious arse that points out that a 125W fridge will NOT be pulling 3kWh (or 3 units?) per day? Fridges run a compressor which makes the cold happen (via science and magic) and when there's enough cold in the box, it'll click off until cold is lacking. The durations will depend on ambient temperature, however observing my (oldish) fridge, it seems to run for about fifty seconds every four or five minutes.
[[Special:Contributions/141.101.69.92|141.101.69.92]] 18:45, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
:Fridge is actually heating device: it heats up your kitchen by pumping the heat from inside to outside. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 22:32, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

There is actually a good reason to differentiate between Wh/h (energy over time) and W (power): Non-constant consumption. If the fridge consumes 3kWh/d, its compressor will be rated in the 300-400W nominal range (the thermostatic controller will cycle the compressor on and off; for a modern fridge-freezer combination, a typical duty cycle would be in the 25-30% range). The unit nameplate will say "400W" because that's the rated power the electrical installation will have to be designed for (how many of these fridges can you put on a 20A breaker etc.). This is only determined by the physical properties of the compressor motor. The energy consumption additionally depends on insulation, internal space of the cabinet etc. etc. and only makes sense as a time average (due to the intermittent operation of the compressor). Not sure about US rules, but here in Europe, there's a standard energy class label for fridges which specifies kWh/a as a primary means of comparison. (Averaging over a year has the advantage that you can test against a standardized profile of ambient temperature change between summer and winter).
[[User:Ogehrke|Ogehrke]] ([[User talk:Ogehrke|talk]]) 21:28, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

The explanation incorrectly states that fuel efficiency in the metric system is measured in km/l. It's not. It's measured in l/km, so it reduces to area, not 1/area.[[Special:Contributions/172.71.182.77|172.71.182.77]] 22:40, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
:I recall seeing a book in my youth about "understanding units" that included great things like viscosity and explanations for why E=mc² cancels units properly. But they got to gasoline consumption, and used the analogy that the "area" represented here is the equivalent of the area of an adjacent trough of gas that would have to be scooped up by your car to keep it running. Very interesting way of illustrating unit cancellation. [[User:RandalSchwartz|RandalSchwartz]] ([[User talk:RandalSchwartz|talk]]) 23:05, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

Am I the only one bothered by the low ceiling? I hate rooms where I can't stretch without bumping. I had to come here to make sure I hadn't miscalculated the ceiling height. [[User:DougM|DougM]] ([[User talk:DougM|talk]]) 00:21, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
:Just assume that Cueball is using british gallons to further mess with the units. As the explanation that makes the room 2.44m which is a pretty standard - although still not very high - room height. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 06:29, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

Talk:3038: Uncanceled Units

2025-01-16T10:19:03Z

Lupo:

Talk:3038: Uncanceled Units

2025-01-16T06:33:04Z

Lupo:

Talk:3038: Uncanceled Units

2025-01-15T21:57:13Z

Lupo:

3038: Uncanceled Units

2025-01-15T20:58:08Z

Lupo: /* Explanation */ mi/gal simplyfies to 1/area, not to area.

{{comic
| number = 3038
| date = January 15, 2025
| title = Uncanceled Units
| image = uncanceled_units_2x.png
| imagesize = 323x355px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = Speed limit c arcminutes^2 per steradian
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by THE HUBBLE PARAMETER, WHICH I HAD INCORRECTLY REFERRED TO AS THE PLANCK CONSTANT (PLS FORGIVE THIS BOT) - Please continue to explain the joke and possible interpretations. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
Another of [[Randall]]'s [[:Category:Pet Peeves|pet peeves]], this comic expresses disapproval of units that could be mathematically simplified.

[[White Hat]] is presenting a refrigerator to [[Cueball]], claiming it only uses 3 kWh per day. Kilowatt-hours is a commonly used unit of electrical energy in the United States, being the amount of energy consumed by one kilowatt of power usage for one hour. As the unit in which power rates are typically reported and bills calculated, it's the most useful piece of information to the average consumer. This measure, however, could be simplified, since a kilowatt is equivalent to a kilojoule per second. Rather than adding a second unit, energy could simply be reported in megajoules (1 kilowatt-hour is 3.6 megajoules, so the refrigerator uses 10.8 MJ per day).

Appliances, however, frequently report their typical power use in terms of kilowatt-hours per day (or per month or year). Once again, this is useful to consumers, because it makes it easier for them to understand how much money it will cost them to run. However, it's an inelegant way to use units, because it uses power, which is already a measure of energy per time, multiplies it by one time unit, and then divides it by another. This clunky method apparently chafes at [[Randall]]'s mind, possibly due to his scientific background (which encourages simplifications of units). The "hour" and "day" terms, both being units of time, can simply cancel out by dividing the whole number by 24, meaning that the refrigerator averages 0.125 KW, or 125 watts, to run. It should be noted that this doesn't mean the refrigerator constantly draws this amount of power, since the compressor in the refrigerator only runs intermittently, but running it over the course of a day (with typical use) is expected to give that average power use.

Cueball (probably representing Randall) sardonically wonders whether the refrigerator would fit in his kitchen, since the ceiling is only 50 gallons per square foot high. This is clearly an abnormal and unhelpful way of reporting height. This unit turns a normal measurement of height (feet and inches, in the US, meters and centimeters, most other places) into weird collection of uncancelled units. Gallons can be transformed to cubic feet (1 US gal ≈ 0.1337 ft3), which can be divided by the square feet, yielding a ceiling height of around 203.7 cm, or around 6 feet 8 inches. (Using imperial gallons [1 UK gal ≈ 0.1605 ft3], the height is approximately 244.7 cm, roughly 8 feet.) This is intended to lampoon the use of uncancelled units by showing how odd things become if they're generally used.

''[[what if? (blog)|what if?]]'': [https://what-if.xkcd.com/11/ Droppings] also covers strange instances of unit cancellation, including a measure of volume per distance converted to area; similar to Cueball's measure of volume per area representing a distance (the height of his ceiling).

A common source of unit drama occurs between lay people who are looking for every day practicality and science/engineering types who are inclined towards formalized mathematical operations. For example U.S. customary units which support many divisibility rules (1 foot = 12 inches; 1 inch = 72 points = 1440 twips; 3 feet = 1 yard; 2 yards = 1 fathom; 22 yards = 1 chain; 10 chains = 1 furlong; 1 mile = 5280 feet; 1 league = 3 miles) versus metric units which prioritize base 10 scales. In this case telling the average customer the energy use in joules per day or average consumption in watts would require them to perform more complicated conversions to get to the figure they actually care about, the actual cost per day. White Hat could just give this cost figure directly, but does not know what every customer pays for electricity (an explicit yearly cost estimate would be included on the government required energy efficiency label).

In the title text, a speed limit is given as c arcminutes2 per steradian, where c is presumably the speed of light in vacuum, 2.998×108 m/s (meters per second) or 186282 mi/s (miles per second). A steradian (sr) is the SI unit for solid angle, subtended by a section of a sphere, like a radian is a unit of angle subtended by a section of a circle. A square arcminute is also a unit of solid angle, equivalent to a section of a sphere of 1/60 of a degree by 1/60 of a degree. There are ((1/60)*(π/180))2 = 8.462×10-8 sr in a square arcminute. Then multiplying by c gives a speed of 56.75 mph (probably 55 mph, based upon the {{w|National Maximum Speed Law|'traditional' US speed limit}}, before rounding errors in the reverse direction), or 91.33 km/h, showing that you can combine an outrageously high speed with two unnecessary units that cancel each other to form a normal road speed.

It is worth noting that although some of these examples are ridiculous, uncancelled units can be helpful to better understand the concept, the {{w|Hubble's law|Hubble Parameter}} can be expressed as 2.17132212×10-18 hertz, 67 km/s/Mpc is directly related to how it is measured and gives a better understanding of what it means. Another example would be fuel efficiency in cars, as mi/gal and km/l technically simplify to 1/area, but by expressing it in volume and distance it allows easy estimations of range and travel cost, while mm-2 or in-2 would require significant unit conversions.{{cn}}

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[White Hat and Cueball are standing to either side of a refrigerator. The fridge has two top compartments and one bottom compartment. The top left compartment has a tall handle on its right, the top right compartment has a tall handle on its left, and the bottom compartment has a long handle on its top. The top left compartment has a paper attached to it with unreadable text, possibly an advertisement.]
:White Hat: This fridge uses only 3 kWh per day!
:Cueball: But will it fit in my kitchen? The ceiling there is only 50 gallons per square foot.

:[Caption below the panel:]
:Pet peeve: Uncanceled units

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring White Hat]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Math]]
[[Category:Pet Peeves]]

Talk:3038: Uncanceled Units

2025-01-15T13:52:09Z

Lupo:

Talk:3038: Uncanceled Units

2025-01-15T13:49:43Z

Lupo:

Talk:3022: Making Tea

2024-12-12T08:59:11Z

Lupo:

I wonder where [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Tea_Party making it in Boston Harbor, at ambient temperature, at scale] would fit on this scale. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.162|172.70.206.162]] 04:38, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
: A little to the left of the microwave thing. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.186.252|162.158.186.252]] 05:14, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:: Oh, no, much further to the right. You stole our colony from us, set up some tinpot, pretended 'country' in its place, and you didn't even have the class to make a decent cup of tea first. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.93|12.68.205.93]] 06:24, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:: And, even if [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68085304 this guy] is right, ''way'' too much salt... [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.130|172.70.91.130]] 07:03, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
::: Soyuz nyerushimyy respublik svobodnik... [[User:DollarStoreBa'al|DollarStoreBa'al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al|talk]]) 14:13, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:::: Well maybe if you didnt force us to buy discounted tea from you after fighting a war for us, we wouldn't be in this situation. [[User:Apollo11|Apollo11]] ([[User talk:Apollo11|talk]]) 15:43, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
::::: Yeah, a tiny island should not have that much control over a fractionable part of a continent [[User:Danger Kitty|Danger Kitty]] ([[User talk:Danger Kitty|talk]])
::::::: EXACTLY, it's not like you funded the voyages, sent supplies to the colonies, or protected us from the French, or anything. [[User:Apollo11|Apollo11]] ([[User talk:Apollo11|talk]]) 14:59, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
: I would like to as a british person to corroborate this, in the 80's my Dad visited the USA (he did go to florida) and still is complaining that the freshly boiled water wasn't poured directly onto the tea bag but was instead the tea bag and the hot water(now luke warm water) and bag was delivered separately!!! The delivery of freshly boiling water on to the bag is the major issue with microwaves, not the nucleation thing in my experience. Bear in mind I don't even actually like tea, still care enough to right this, but i'll be signing this anonymously to avoid shame being bought on my family and my family's familys. Murderous royals are a lot less popular the tea [[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.227|108.162.245.227]]
:: I first visited the US in 1980. A friend who was with hate coffee and was horrified when he ordered tea that he got the water and the tea bag separately. When he suggested they add the water as soon as it was boiled, the wait staff thought he was joking. Many years later in Texas, a waiter asked me why I, a Brit, was drinking coffee, not tea. "You don't know how to make it," I replied. (In my house, the electric kettle and teapot sit next to each other on the kitchen worktop.)--[[Special:Contributions/172.70.160.135|172.70.160.135]] 09:22, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

When I make ramen, I put the measuring cup in the microwave. Fight me. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.167.87|162.158.167.87]] 05:35, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:: On behalf of the British Empire: whateva. [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 18:28, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

"...to the point virtually every home has an electric tea kettle as a standard appliance". If I'm reading it correctly, this and the comic suggests we (though not I, as I'm not a tea-drinker) make tea ''in the electric kettle''. Electric tea-urns, yes, or maybe a setup like a samovar. But, generally, the kettle itself (and, so far as I'm aware, always with an electric kettle) is used to heat the water, which you then pour into the tea''pot'' into which the requisite number of tealeaves/teabags are also put to steep. (Or, for the lazy way, into the mug-with-teabag.) I wouldn't be able to use my electric kettle to (for example) make my instant mashed-potato into the actual mash, if I'd have regularly used it to mash tea. Or top up the boiling saucepan that I'd realised I'd not quite enough water in to cover the pasta/vegetables/whatever. Or to easily add nust a little more heat (with less new water) to the washing-up bowl than would be possible from the hot tap, back to as hot as possible without scalding me. – Whether intentional or not, I suspect Randall has the role of kettle and teapot mixed up, and so (without the intent to parody) has the editor who wrote the above. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.160.135|172.70.160.135]] 05:49, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:: Agree, we make tea in a mug using water from a kettle. I'd be furious if an American made tea in my kettle, how will I then make up my instant Nescafe? [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 18:28, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

I don't think the section on 'Boiling the water in a pot' refers to a teapot - I think it means boiling the water in a pot on the hob, and then making tea with it (in a pot/mug). [[Special:Contributions/172.69.195.27|172.69.195.27]] 07:53, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:I agree, but I also think there's a language issue with the use of pot vs. pan that makes things more confusing. I think there are several types of cookware that Americans call pot and British call pan. So British would not say they boil water in a pot but rather in a saucepan (if there's no kettle available of course). [[User:Mtcv|Mtcv]] ([[User talk:Mtcv|talk]]) 09:03, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

I (as Brit) am uncommon in using an electric filter coffee machine to make tea (two bags in what is supposed to be the coffee filter). Set up, press the button and come back to a not jug of fresh tea which is not stewed. If later, the hot plate has shut off and it is cold, you can zap it in a mug in the microwave. [[User:RIIW - Ponder it|RIIW - Ponder it]] ([[User talk:RIIW - Ponder it|talk]]) 08:11, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
: As another brit, what? I do not understand the mechanics of this, please elaborate. Additionally, my understanding is that the water would be *briefly acquainted* with the tea, thus would be a poor facsimile of "tea" and would rather be closer to something the americans would attempt. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.126|141.101.99.126]] 11:46, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:::I did say 'uncommon' but Kenwood made a coffee/tea machine to do this. It sounds like it shouldn't work, but 167 below has the basics right. [[User:RIIW - Ponder it|RIIW - Ponder it]] ([[User talk:RIIW - Ponder it|talk]]) 09:13, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
::I'm guessing the water would drip on to the teabags, then soak all the way through them and drip out into the jug, without allowing sufficient to accumulate that it would run straight out without passing fully through the bag. It's an intriguing idea. But most definitely wrong.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.239|172.70.85.239]] 17:15, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Your guess is right. It works because the (finely cut) leaves are exposed to boiling hot water for a few minutes, you wouldn't drink any before you have half a jug and that is quite 'bright'. Better than a teabag in a mug! Want it stronger, use more bags. Big advantage - you set it up, press button, come back in 5 to 25 minutes and your tea is waiting, including a second mug, not and not stewed. Wrong - but works so right. [[User:RIIW - Ponder it|RIIW - Ponder it]] ([[User talk:RIIW - Ponder it|talk]]) 09:13, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yMMTVVJI4c Technology Connections]! [[Special:Contributions/141.101.109.167|141.101.109.167]] 09:51, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

You Westerners have literally no idea how to make proper, good tea! SMH [[User:TPS|TPS]] ([[User talk:TPS|talk]]) 13:00, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

As a Brit who grew up in sight of the Yorkshire Tea factory – and worked there on occasion – and having travelled very widely around the world – including in the US – I feel I'm supposed to have an opinion. However, I have ''never'' encountered the microwaving of water as mentioned here, and I would not object to it as supposedly problematic for tea-quality reasons. I'd object for reasons of common sense. What mystifies me is the idea that kettles are tea-specific. They are for heating water, not making tea. Coffee uses hot water. Pasta, rice and potatoes use hot water. Peas, carrots, cabbage, sweetcorn...

Baking bread often involves a pan of steaming water in the oven.

"But I can boil water in a pan for cooking pasta or vegetables."

Yes, but you'll be waiting a l-o-o-o-ng time. I'll heat my water in the kettle, pour it into the now-hot pan, cook my pasta, and I'll be eating before your water is boiling.

A kettle is not a tea-making item any more than a frying pan is an omelette-making item; tea is simply one of the things you can make with water from a kettle. Hot water is a basic civilised human commodity, predating recorded history. That we should live in a mechanised world, and the Consumer Nation doesn't have water-boiling appliances as standard (saying instead "I don't have a kettle because I don't drink tea") is ludicrous.

Using a microwave rather than buying a kettle is a bit like not buying a hammer for driving in nails because you've got a big pair of pliers that will do. Sure, they're heavy lumps of metal than live in your toolbag, but they're not the right thing.

The Brits, incidentally, are not tea lovers. They are prolific consumers of awful tea that actual tea lovers wouldn't use for cleaning their drains. The most enthusiastic tea enthusiasts I've ever met were from Maryland.

It's all just social ceremony in the UK. Milk first, tea first, must use a saucer, must use a pot...tea is a British religion, not a British drink. [[User:Yorkshire Pudding|Yorkshire Pudding]] ([[User talk:Yorkshire Pudding|talk]]) 14:23, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
: How long does it take you to boil water for, let's say enough water for four people's worth of pasta, using an electric kettle? I reckon that's about 4 liters of water? I'm genuinely curious. Now also double the time, because as mentioned in the explanation, American outlets produce half the power of British outlets. And let me not fail to mention that almost all American homes have either special higher power outlets for stoves or gas powered stoves, and frequently have special high-power outlets for microwaves as well. 4 liters of water to boil takes about 5-6 minutes on a low-end American stove, about 3-4 minutes on a gas stove, and about 2 minutes on an induction stove. None of which strikes me as a particularly long time, especially when the most popular varieties of pasta in America all need to be boiled for 8+ minutes. How does this compare to twice the length of time as your electric kettle? Because if your Electric Kettle actually allows you to be eating your pasta before our water has even boiled, that would require your kettle to boil water in around -2min to -6min. And if your electric kettle can time travel, then that is truly an astonishing device. Honestly my takeaway from this is that British Stoves must be apparently heated by a single candle if "boiling water for pasta" is considered to take a "l-o-o-o-ng time". {{unsigned ip|162.158.126.161|21:51, 10 December 2024 (UTC)}}

I wonder what the Brits would feel about repurposing a single-cup coffee maker. These days, I usually put a tea bag in a mug and place it in a Keurig machine and run it (without a K-cup, of course) to deliver the hot water. Probably the wrong temperature, but fast and easy and the result is good enough. [[User:Shamino|Shamino]] ([[User talk:Shamino|talk]]) 14:52, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Would any British person care to evaluate my tea making practices? Boil water in electric kettle. Pour water over teabag, allow to steep, remove teabag. Add sugar and ice cubes. [[User:RegularSizedGuy|RegularSizedGuy]] ([[User talk:RegularSizedGuy|talk]]) 15:54, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:...well, seems a fairly standard "making one mug of tea for oneself" process. It lacks a milk-adding stage (thus no arguments about whether before or after the water). Removing the teabag at that point probably means it's not going to become a Builders' Brew, which is your choicd. Sugar is ok. And... Waitwhat... ''Ice Cubes?!?'' ...can I get back to you on that? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.163|172.70.162.163]] 17:50, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

I can confirm (by inadvertent experiments conducted on flatmates) that they indeed do not like tea being make in the kettle. What really makes them angry though is making coffee in the teapot. It ruins the taste of the teapot forever apparently. There is also a faction that insists that a teapot should never be washed, and washing it invokes a lesser anger.[[User:Gopher|Gopher]] ([[User talk:Gopher|talk]]) 15:56, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

On rare occasions where I don't have a kettle available, I use a microwave oven to boil water for tea. But it doesn't look and taste quite the same, and often leaves an ugly foam at the surface when the tea bag is added. This phenomenon is investigated here: https://cooking.stackexchange.com/a/22264. So the British might be right... Disclaimer: I'm neither from the UK nor from the US. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.68.126|172.69.68.126]] 16:16, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

There is a [https://www.tumblr.com/elodieunderglass/669449994039853056/wizardlyghost-silverjirachi-pidoop tumblr thread] about the topic of teamaking in microwaves, kettles, etc. Funnily enough it showed up in my Instagram reels feed just a few hours before this comic was posted. I was thinking perhaps Randall saw it too and was inspired by it? Both of them have to deal with the different ways of making tea and how "absurd" or "unconventional" (etc.) they are. Even if Randall didn't have it in mind, it's certainly a funny little coincidence. [[User:Pie Guy|Pie Guy]] ([[User talk:Pie Guy|talk]]) 16:36, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm guessing my occasional summertime practice of filling a gallon jar with water and lots of tea bags, setting it on the back porch in the sun for a few hours until the water turns dark brown, then putting the whole thing in the refrigerator and later drinking it over ice would be toward the more angry end of the spectrum.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.126.204|172.70.126.204]] 16:39, 10 December 2024 (UTC)Pat
:I think the "in the sun for a few hours" part might just be too incomprehensible to most of us, here in Britain. If we ''have'' a few hours of sun (and we're not abroad and deliberately sunburning ourselves on the beach/beside the pool in our week at the Costa Lotta budget-all-inclusivs holiday) then we're either fuming at our workdesks complaining about the louts stripping down to their shirtsleeves and splashing in the town-centre fountains or we're on our lunch-break and we ''are'' the louts stripping down to our shirtsleeves and splashing in the town-centre fountains. In neither case would sun-stewed tea be a priority. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.163|172.70.162.163]] 17:50, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Perhaps it's worth to mention how dangerous it is to boil water in a microwave. https://tastecooking.com/dangerous-microwave-water/
[[User:Mestafais|Mestafais]] ([[User talk:Mestafais|talk]]) 15:22, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:I have a >5 inch burn scar on my forearm, to arrest to that. [[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 14:21, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

There are several comics with unmarked scales. It would be interesting if the descriptions started using pixels to point where each mark is along the line. As a rough estimate, the four points mentioned here are at X-values: 90px, 115px, 345px, and 645px, indicating that the pot method is 10% as infuriating as the chalice method - or that making tea in a pot ten times would be equally as infuriating as making it once in a chalice (at least, assuming the kettle method causes zero furons. I know of {{w|hedons and dolors}}. I guess 'furons' are a unit of fury, right? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.46.236|172.70.46.236]] 16:11, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Interesting to see the interest in editing this. Had a quick check of the last ten comics, looking at the number of edits made in the first 14 hours (the exact time this page has been around, as of me starting the check) and in total, and extrapolated to edits/day (in the case of total edits, both just to the latest edit and right up to 'now'). Thought it'd be interesting to give you my results (assuming I tallied/etc correctly)...
*3022 - 14hr: '''61''' ('''105'''/day); Total: 61 ('''105/day...''')
*3021 - 14hr: 23 (39/day); Total: 39 (11/day -> 10/day)
*3020 - 14hr: 22 (38/day); Total: 36 (10/day -> 6/day)
*3019 - 14hr: 28 (48/day); Total: 54 (17/day -> 7/day)
*3018 - 14hr: 14 (24/day); Total: 48 (4/day -> 4/day)
*3017 - 14hr: 29 (50/day); Total: 33 (32/day -> 3/day)
*3016 - 14hr: 28 (48/day); Total: 46 (4/day -> 3/day)
*3015 - 14hr: 20 (32/day); Total: '''83''' (5/day -> 5/day)
*3014 - 14hr: 40 (69/day); Total: 66 (16/day -> 3/day)
*3013 - 14hr: 36 (61/day); Total: 68 (3/day -> 3/day)
...of course, the first 14 hours probably biases to British readers/editors, and it was too fiddly to add up ''|bytes changed per edit|'' as a more useful metric than mere number of pokes. But quite a bit of interest we already have here. More edits in fourteen hours than any other article less than fourteen (indeed, 17!) days old... ;) Seems to have really hit a mark, this subject! [[Special:Contributions/172.69.195.201|172.69.195.201]] 19:21, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:This one is super weird. I may be weirdness incarnate... but... [[User:Maybe Bill Cipher|An anonymous Gravity Falls expert]] ([[User talk:Maybe Bill Cipher|talk]]) 19:33, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:Well obviously. I mean this one ''really'' matters![[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.23|141.101.98.23]] 08:52, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

I would argue that the more pessimistic interpretation of the two low-end options makes sense, rather than the more generous versions offered in the current explanation. I think the first one does literally mean making tea in the kettle, and the second one does mean boiling water in a teapot. Making tea *using* a kettle isn't anything to get mad about, it's the default practice. That should put it at the zero point of the line, but it isn't, it's to the right. On the other hand, obviously making tea *in* the kettle would incite a modest amount of rage (on the scale of zero to microwaving a mug), and it makes sense that boiling water in a teapot would incite about 50% more, as shown.[[Special:Contributions/172.69.134.160|172.69.134.160]] 19:51, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
: An American making tea in the correct way by boiling water in the kettle and then pouring that into a teapot with the tea would still probably conspire to make it badly and make the Brit angry. And Brits really do get quite upset about the idea of tea made with water boiled in a stovetop pan.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.23|141.101.98.23]] 08:55, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

There is a standard for making tea, ISO 3103: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3103, and apparently from the Royal Society of Chemistry.
And, of course, it must be really hot for in infinite improbability drive to work properly.
[[User:Lordpishky|Lordpishky]] ([[User talk:Lordpishky|talk]]) 20:24, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

All this blather and not one bit about that quintessential Kiwi staple, [https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gumboot_tea gumboot tea]. Boil the kettle (about the size of a Dutch oven), throw in handfuls of leaf black tea, and let it sit until consumed. Reheat as needed. One sip, and the source of the Commonwealth aversion to the insane Yankee habit of drinking tea black is immediately apparent. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.123.8|172.70.123.8]] 20:31, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

So, I have a Quooker that boils my water. Add tea (leaves)... done. But *don't* add milk, please.... spoil... {{unsigned|Palmpje|20:50, 10 December 2024 (UTC)}}

''Ultimately, the real difference comes down to convenience: In the USA, the standard voltage for electric appliances (including an electric kettle) is 120 volts, while it is twice that (240 volts in practice, though nominally 230V) in the UK. Since the amperage for an electric kettle is the the same in both countries (15 amps), this means that an equivalent kettle in the UK has twice the power (3.2kw versus 1.6kw), and can heat the water in a fraction of the time. Meanwhile, a standard microwave has a similar power in both countries (from 700 to 1000 watts), for reasons unrelated to the supply voltage it is equipped to use. Therefore, heating a small cup in a microwave might take a few moments longer than a kettle in the USA, but is many times slower to wait for compared to using an electric kettle in the UK.'' Electric kettles are a bit faster in the UK due to the voltage difference, but it's not that much and I highly doubt speed is the main concern here. The main 'convenience' difference between boiling water in a kettle vs a microwave is quantity: Brits usually don't just make one cup/mug of tea! On the rare occasion Americans drink tea, it's more often just the one person drinking one cup, making a microwave a convenient choice.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.233.90|162.158.233.90]] 21:40, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Add in some [https://www.foodandwine.com/why-you-should-add-salt-to-tea-8549735 salt]! '''[[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]][[User talk:42.book.addict|Talk to me!]]''' 21:44, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

It's not about voltage. They use different gauge heater wire to get the Watts wanted/allowed.

The classic UK plug is nominal 13 Amps. (The circuits may be nominal 16A but there is now better insulation than in 1949.) At 230 Volts that would be 3KW (near enuff). That will be the "legal numbers". At 240V it may be 3,250W true. OTOH a 10V sag might be expected in all but the poshest wall-wiring.

amazon.co.uk sells kettles nearly all rated 3KW. Exceptions are Greepas at 1800W ("However, some customers have reported that it's very slow to boil"); also Philips 2200W, Daewoo 1400W, and OLEGA 1500W 'Fast Boiling'.

OTOH!!

On Amazon US site nearly all kettles are 1500W, a few lower like 1100W. At assumed 120V 1500W is 12.5Amps. 15Amp circuits are still common in older houses (despite changes in 1960s) but we supposed to de-rate for 'long-running' (not clearly specified in old code) so 12 Amps is in a ballpark.

Note that all US kettles are lower power than all but the tamest UK kettles. Essentially half power.

And IIRC, the 13/16A rating which allows super-power kettles in the UK was not for tea but for "electric fire", room heat. In post-War rebuilding, smokey coal was already depreciated in cities, steam plumbing and chimneys are expensive. Copper wire is costly too, but you "have" to have electric, and low-cost plans like ring-main were investigated.
[[User:PRR|PRR]] ([[User talk:PRR|talk]]) 22:44, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

"accept that tea-appropriate boiling water can be obtained directly from the sink's plumbing" - unless it comes out literally at boiling temperature, it isn't tea appropriate. I live in France now, and order catering bags of tea from Amazon because French tea is dismally awful, not helped at all by this fairly widespread belief that black tea steeps at 60C. When I share tea bags with friends, I have to keep reminding them, boiling! Boiling! So, see, there are worse things than using a microwave to heat the water... [[Special:Contributions/172.71.126.208|172.71.126.208]] 06:00, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
:Not boiling - OFF boiling. Higher than 60C, yes, but if you put actually boiling water straight on to the tea (or worse, boil the water with the tea in it), that's at least as bad. (And how far off the boil exactly depends on the type of tea.) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.22|141.101.98.22]] 09:00, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

What's up with the "We want to ensure'''[sic]''' the good people of the U.K"?
I really can't see the US Embassy insuring them for any amount, so what gives? [[User:Ryden|Ryden]] ([[User talk:Ryden|talk]]) 12:27, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
:Came here to make the same note. “Ensure” is not misspelled, why is it marked with “[sic]”? [[User:Dúthomhas|Dúthomhas]] ([[User talk:Dúthomhas|talk]]) 12:40, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
::It's the wrong word entirely for the longer sentence. They perhaps wished to ''assure'' the good people, etc... "Ensure" means to "check and fix" something, in the way this is connected to "the good people" (implying that ''they'' would be changed to deal with any discrepancy of expectations), but this reading also goes wrong by the "that".
::In the sense of making a pledge (probably the actual intent), the structure is all wrong and probably was hastily reworded from a different narrative path, but left half-and-half and not making sense. My most minimal rewording for this would be "We want to ensure to the good people of the U.K. that ...", but it still reads very awkwardly. Perhaps it always made more sense to the average 'Merkin (c.f. "write me" instead of "write to me"), but I still would have written "assure" (as attempt to be comforting) or "pledge to" (for a more fervent sincerity of positive action).
::And to "insure" (for British English) is different yet again. While not working at all in the full sentence, it would start to suggest the actual possibility of such wrongness happening, but with the promise of monetary (or other) compensation if it does. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.149|141.101.98.149]] 15:43, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Question: Does the obsession with tea apply to all of Britain equally? E.g. are the Scottish just as stereotypicly known for loving tea as the English? This comic immediately brings Arthur Dent to my mind, and he's Very English Indeed. ("A liquid almost but not quite entirely unlike tea" is missing somewhere in the left third of the comic. :) --an intrigued German [[Special:Contributions/172.71.148.103|172.71.148.103]] 14:35, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
:The four nations probably have had a similar outlook, but everyone may have had different social reasons. Tea-totalling perhaps was the initial driver in the more methodist corners, to get working people not to drink too much beer/cider/gin. The high social status version of regency ladies. It then sort of met in the middle by the time of the tea-ladies trolleying around refreshments to boardrooms and factory floors alike, in the same building.
:For WW2, the British government's demand for tea supplies was at least as important as ammunition. All British tanks apparently had (and continue to have) a hot-water boiler in the crew comparatment (not just for tea, but, probably the main thing at times). Official worries about tea [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7382750.stm lasted beyond that era].
:Generalising for everyone ''now'' is probably wrong, but visiting elderly relatives all over the UK, I'd ''always'' be passed a cup of tea (and a plate of cakes, or biscuits, placed temptingly close at hand). A pity that I never really liked tea (the cakes/biscuits are a bonus and a mitigating factor, but politeness demands that I throttle back my desires in that direction). [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.149|141.101.98.149]] 15:43, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Boy, they ''really'' get mad when you microwave the Chalice. [[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 14:18, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
:I think putting metal in the microwave is probably frowned upon worldwide. (Unless you're an ex-Navy Seal and cook who has found your ship taken over by mercenaries with a mad plan. Then go ahead.) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.119|162.158.74.119]] 16:07, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

I find that Brits really hate it when you bring up the concept of sweet tea, during the summer my family would fill up a jug with water add some tea bags then leave it on the porch over night. [[User:Resign|Resign]] ([[User talk:Resign|talk]]) 07:35, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

This is the most comprehensively explained comic in a while 😂 I guess there are a lot of passionate tea-makers around here. As a non-tea-drinker living in a Commonwealth country, I have definitely heard the outrageous stereotype that Americans microwave their water. Definitely practical when you don't own a kettle, but slow when brewing for a group. [[User:Alcatraz ii|Alcatraz ii]] ([[User talk:Alcatraz ii|talk]]) 08:07, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Would the small metal piece that sticks together the label of the teabag at the end of the string be an issue when microwaved (with the water or seperately)? Or is too small for that? (I know not all teabags have that, especially british "black tea" often comes in packages without string, but my usual tea does have it...) --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 08:59, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Talk:2999: Bad Map Projection: The United Stralia

2024-10-17T10:46:14Z

Lupo:

He forgot the Idaho abbreviation. [[User:Danger Kitty|Danger Kitty]] ([[User talk:Danger Kitty|talk]])
hello[[Special:Contributions/172.68.54.64|172.68.54.64]] 19:49, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

:: And Mississippi has stolen Michigan's abbreviation! [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.240|172.70.206.240]] 23:18, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

5 likes and I will make this a reality [[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 20:10, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Probably this is because I'm more familiar with the map of Australia than of the US, but Melbourne seems to have moved quite a bit to the east and is now presumably in Gippsland? Oddly that's the most jarring change for me... [[User:Zoid42|Zoid42]] ([[User talk:Zoid42|talk]]) 20:26, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

:: Yep. {{w|Melbourne Florida}}. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.47.10|172.70.47.10]] 21:56, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

An eight-legged gator with fangs the size of your arm, six eyes, and the ability to spin webs is truly a horrifying thought. [[User:Psychoticpotato|P?sych??otic?pot??at???o ]] ([[User talk:Psychoticpotato|talk]]) 21:07, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

:: At that point most of the NT would become to dangerous for people to live. [[User:SomeRandomNerd|SomeRandomNerd]] ([[User talk:SomeRandomNerd|talk]]) 23:21, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

If find it weird how tasmania is florida, as while they are in the same place, they are the least alike 2 places you could think of. [[User:SomeRandomNerd|SomeRandomNerd]] ([[User talk:SomeRandomNerd|talk]]) 22:35, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

:: Agreed. If cartoons and television have taught me anything, one is home to a bunch of snarling, slobbering, ravenous beasts, moving across the landscape as whirlwinds of wanton destruction. And the other is Tasmania. [[Special:Contributions/172.64.238.130|172.64.238.130]] 04:59, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Part of the joke is that the contiguous 48 States plus DC have nearly the same area as Australia, though the US has a larger total area. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.109.166|141.101.109.166]] 01:00, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

As an Australian citizen, this map hurts my soul. This is amazingly painful and I kinda love it. [[User:OmniDoom|OmniDoom]] ([[User talk:OmniDoom|talk]]) 01:36, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

:: I apparently now live in Adelaide/Louisiana (or New Orleans/South Australia). [[User:FourW|FourW]] ([[User talk:FourW|talk]]) 06:32, 17 October 2024 (UTC)FourW

Environmentalists will be upset with Randal for finally finishing the {{w|Cross Florida Barge Canal}}. And just in time for the centennial!--[[User:The Mess|The Mess]] ([[User talk:The Mess|talk]]) 07:33, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

randall still supports zionist harris... :'( [[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 07:49, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

:: Do you really think Trump would be better? [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.135|172.68.205.135]] 09:18, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
:::i mean, both of them suck tbh [[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 09:35, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
::::so whats your alternative suggestion? Voting/Endorsing for a third party and then get trump into office? Great strategy --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 10:46, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Talk:2987: Tectonic Surfing

2024-09-19T06:58:43Z

Lupo:

Where is the speed Beret Guy's moving at coming from? It looks to me like he moved about half his own height in 20 years so assuming he's 6 ft: 36in/20year gives 4.57 cm/year 7 cm/year for his speed seems high and 11 seems ridiculous. {{unsigned ip|172.71.159.45}}
:Seems to have been changed already --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 06:51, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

Maybe [[2061]] could get a tony-hawk spin off... --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 06:58, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

Talk:2985: Craters

2024-09-16T04:28:57Z

Lupo:

==Delaware/Pennsylvania Arc==
The Delaware/Pennsylvania arc is a circle, sure, but so is every other allegedly "straight" line on the map. The 49N parallel looks like a straight line on some projections, but a polar projection shows that it is clearly a circle around a point on the Earth's axis. The Delaware/Pennsylvania arc is only unique for NOT being aligned with the axis. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.102.20|172.71.102.20]] 19:07, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
:The "Delaware/Pennsylvania arc" has a long and juicy history. Not a circle. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve-Mile_Circle Twelve-Mile Circle] Signed- --[[User:PRR|PRR]] ([[User talk:PRR|talk]]) 20:36, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
:True about map projections, but the Venn section title here does say *Weird*. The Delaware/Pennsylvania arc is indeed "weird"; few other such arcs are found in regular map content, and the original story for it is indeed uncommon. <s>Great Circle</s> Parallel latitude "arcs" aren't weird in either way. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.34.64|172.68.34.64]] 20:52, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
::North-South lines are great-circle arcs, but non-equatorial East-West lines - as well as many diagonal ones - are minor-circle arcs (is that the right term?), just link the 12-Mile Circle. (Let's see if this retains my IP address from my top post.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.46.109|172.70.46.109]] 21:29, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Right you are! [[Special:Contributions/172.68.34.64|172.68.34.64]] 23:00, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

==Great Blue Hole==
There are two Great Blue Holes, one in Belize, one in Dahab, Egypt (Red Sea). [[Special:Contributions/172.71.102.20|172.71.102.20]] 19:11, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
==Recent Google Maps discovery==
This may be inspired Joël Lapointe's very recently announced discovery of a 15km-diameter "pit" he found near Marsal Lake (Quebec) using Google Maps. [https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-meteorite-impact-crater-1.7313418 "He saw a suspicious pit on Google Maps. Experts say it could be a crater from an ancient space rock"] [[Special:Contributions/172.69.64.185|172.69.64.185]] 20:10, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

----

man, why are so many of these in Quebec? does it have a natural meteor/circle magnet? [[Special:Contributions/172.68.174.232|172.68.174.232]] 01:11, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

: Parce qu'on y parle français. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.71.68|172.69.71.68]] 12:39, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

==New Column==
I'm thinking about a new column or two: GPS coordinates (with an Open Earth link?) and a satellite image, or something. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.102.76|172.71.102.76]] 03:27, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

: The table seems incomplete without something like that. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.34.172|172.69.34.172]] 22:50, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

==Meta Reference: Venn Diagram Double Crater==
No comment yet on the fact that the two circles in the Venn Diagram refer to craters and circles... [[Special:Contributions/172.71.102.53|172.71.102.53]] 01:32, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

==Geographic bias by meteorites or Randall?==
Boy am I happy that I don't live in North or Central America, where 11 out of 13 "craters" are located... [[User:Mumiemonstret|Mumiemonstret]] ([[User talk:Mumiemonstret|talk]]) 07:44, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
:Maybe over here (rightpondia, oceania, down-under and the cradle of humanity itself), we just cleaned them up easier (or messed them up badly) so they were less obvious. (c.f. Nördlingen.) Y'all over thataway, however, haven't had time to do anything too drastic to obscure them. ;) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.163.48|172.70.163.48]] 14:10, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
:Haha, yeah, that was also my first thought when I googled the places I didn't know: very America-centric by either Randall or meteorite or other circle-creating entities... And even the other 2 places are in English speaking places (yes, I know English isn't the official language of India, but still one of the most common)--[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 04:28, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

I am tickled pink that two significant items in my life appear adjacent in this diagram: Stonehenge, and Crater Lake. My company name is Stonehenge (and I've been to the real rock pile a few times), and I'm a native Oregonian, using Crater Lake as my video-call background. [[User:RandalSchwartz|RandalSchwartz]] ([[User talk:RandalSchwartz|talk]]) 22:02, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Talk:2971: Celestial Event

2024-08-15T05:43:55Z

Lupo:

Unfortunately, this calculation doesn't account for the eventual end of total solar eclipses due to the tidal recession of the moon. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.246.142|172.69.246.142]] 05:31, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

:This is a great comment! Very much like something Randall would have written for title text. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.146.49|172.71.146.49]] 05:58, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
:: Agreed! Also, it seems like the article should have a footnote or separate section going full Randall, "Based only on the data given in this cartoon, what is the possible range of Randall Munroe's home location?" --[[User:AnnapolisKen|AnnapolisKen]] ([[User talk:AnnapolisKen|talk]]) 18:21, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::: Speculating about people's addresses online is generally frowned upon, in court if nowhere else. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.14.183|172.68.14.183]] 00:50, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Are all of these events really statistically independent or are e.g. active northern lights and cicada mergence more or less likely to happen at the same time of the year? {{unsigned ip|172.68.194.201|06:15, 13 August 2024}}

: Ooh, great question. It turns out cicadas only emerge in warm weather, particularly in summer, and <s>you can only see the northern lights in winter</s>. That's bad news for us, our superevent might never happen. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.90.3|172.69.90.3]] 01:03, 14 August 2024 (UTC) — edit: oops, I got it wrong. It turns out you can see them all year round. They're actually happening right now in some parts of the US.

This comic was published the same night that saw both the Perseids meteor shower and an unusually strong northern lights. Strangely, the omission of meteor showers in Randall's account of Celestial Events suggests that this is a coincidence. [[User:Mumiemonstret|Mumiemonstret]] ([[User talk:Mumiemonstret|talk]]) 11:43, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

One eclipse every 350 years is not "1/350" - that would imply the eclipse lasted the whole year. The numerator unit should be a minute or so, vastly changing the result. {{unsigned ip|172.70.39.114|13:16, 13 August 2024}}
: Actually, thanks to unit cancelation, Randall's math checks out. I really really feel that it shouldn't, but it does. It's 1/350 years because what you're calculating is "once every X years". It doesn't actually matter how long an eclipse lasts, so long as it's a sufficiently small amount of time so as to be treated as a single point in time. "When that point in time happens, how frequently will those other things be happening?". You can give that answer in days, years, or whatever other unit of time you prefer. Since we're giving it in years, the number we need is "how often (am eclipse occurs) each year" - [[Special:Contributions/172.68.14.185|172.68.14.185]] 23:32, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
:: Yes, I came back to correct myself on this after more reflection. The implied unit is Event and this is the only such non-dimentionless factor. {{unsigned ip|108.162.245.186|23:40, 13 August 2024}}
: Tru dat, as are the comments regarding changes over time in eclipse parameters and the effects of time approximations. However, if we let "4 minutes" be the mean time of totality for an eclipse, and insert that term (for the record, 7.6E-06) for "1" in "1/350", the equation's solution becomes 4E+14, orders of magnitude greater than the age of the universe and, IIRC, well into its projected "heat death". The joke appears to reside in the proximity of Randall's solution to the commonly-accepted age of the Earth, making the solution "just possible". More "accurate" solutions would not be funny, and we would not have seen this comic.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.41.227|162.158.41.227]] 17:11, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::In the "1/350years", I took it to mean that the unitless "1" represented a day (within which an eclipse occurs, and across this period would also extend the various other conditions). By treating all other unit-laden values as correctly converted to the number in the term of days (and back-converted to the 'more convenient' billions of years for the result), it probably ...not that I did the mathematics to check this... comes out as Randall suggests.
::If, indeed, the length of an (average, as of Earth's current configuration) eclipse, and all other values were understood as proxies for the "number of eclipse-lengths" (except for the uncloudy sky fraction, which is always a unitless half through cancelling out) then you might end up with a result that's different. But the way to check this is to accept the answer (in billions of years) and all the others with time-lengths (respectively) and work out the rough united-length of the "1" by to identify what unit would best fit that. But I leave that to whoever ''really'' wants to dive that deep into it, as the next logical step beyond mere attempted pedantry. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.164|172.68.205.164]] 20:22, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
: Every other 2 billion years, on days when it's cloudy or raining, the neighborhood ''doesn't'' get to see the spectacular show. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.98|162.158.154.98]] 19:19, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::So just like the olympic games: They happen every 4 years, while also every 4 years, but offset by 2, there are the olympic winter games... --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 05:43, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

There are competing factors with regard to the eclipse. Obviously total eclipses don't last for an entire year {{cn}}, but in the distant past when the Moon was significantly closer, they occurred much more frequently than once every 350 years. Far enough back, the moon was significantly larger in the sky and orbited much more rapidly making total solar eclipses a much more common event (even if nobody with eyes was around to see). Using constants for probabilities when things have significant variation is tricky. [[User:Galeindfal|Galeindfal]] ([[User talk:Galeindfal|talk]]) 14:26, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
:I just added (without having seen the above comment) something that deals with that. Actually, that and the way that the 'beat frequency' may ''just'' fail to create an all-effect maximum due to it not being a strictly repeating frequency (if you have an eclipse on one date, with a "1 event in 350 years" calculation for your location/latitude, it doesn't preclude more than one per 350 years or two separated by vastly more than 350 years - though still likely to get "N+1" eclipses over any given 350xN year period for higher Ns).
:If it's a combinatorial experience of fully periodic frquencies (such as with [[1331: Frequency]] then you can be precise over the beat-frequency, but any statistical perturbation can make a 'full hit' into a 'not-fully hit' event quite easily. At its simplest, though the chances of any given day (or useful fraction of a day) of being clear-skied may be 50%, it's not as simple to say "yesterday was cloudy, tomorrow will be clear", or vice-versa. Perhaps slightly more useful to say that than "the year just gone had no clouds, so this year will be full of them" or imagining that every second you could glance up and see "clouds...", "no clouds...", "clouds...", "no clouds...". The meteorological 'calculations' would never be anywhere near as simple as even the (future-trends modified) far-future predictability of the astronomical effects. The biologist might be able to be reasonably sure that the season-locked emergence of a given cicada brood will actually continue to satisfy ''their'' contribution to the calculation for much longer than the weatherman might (though they'd have to admit to the high probability that an ecological upset would flat out end any chances before any of the other forecasts become too hazy to rely upon).
:So the changing of frequencies over the time of the 9calculated) meta-beat's recurrance will make for an compoundedly-chaotic 'actual' meta-beat (assuming it ever completes). This includes the possibility that it actually re-meshes its individual occurances into an actually far more frequent coincidence (two consecutive cicada emergences could end up ''both'' being accompanied by all the other requirements). Depends how much you take at face-value, rather than as a rough and ready 'approximation' for fun-and-non-profit... [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.164|172.68.205.164]] 20:22, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

The adjustment due to leap years is far dwarfed by the approximate nature of "20 days" and "2 months" in some of the events. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 15:06, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Don't know how it could be calculated in, but there's a fundamental conflict between the solar eclipse and aurora borealis. Solar eclipses are only visible during the day {{cn}}, but the aurorae aren't symmetrical around the poles and drag further equator-ward on the night side of the planet. So the occurrences of Northern lights that would reach to Boston latitudes on the *day side* of the planet so as to be visible during a solar eclipse would be much, much rarer (closer to Carrington-event rarity, currently pitched at once every 100 to 1000 years instead of the 11 Randall used, but even then it'd have to be a particularly strong event). [[Special:Contributions/172.70.230.142|172.70.230.142]] 13:34, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

;Big Bang theory
If he had included all these events happening on a Tuesday or a Thursday then we're getting close to 1 every 14 billion years. A time which everyone's neighbourhoods had a really big show. [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 02:36, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

;Terrible explanation
Someone has to say it. The explanation is so long and convoluted that it serves substantially more to confuse than to explain. Someone please edit it mercilessly. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.62|172.69.33.62]] 05:14, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Talk:2968: University Age

2024-08-07T07:13:50Z

Lupo:

[[1477]] anyone? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.41.131|162.158.41.131]] 03:29, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
:Not relevant in my opinion. In [[1477: Star Wars]] Cueball is surprised by how fast time seems to flow past him. Not surprised that everything ages at the same rate as the Cueball in this comic. There are more than 40 comics relating to [[:Category:Time|time]] on explain xkcd... [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 06:50, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

Was there a USA political debate this week that I didn't hear about? About. Hear of it's existence. I Assuredly didn't hear it. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.175.121|172.70.175.121]] 06:27, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

On a related note, today I set a new personal best for time spent continuously being alive. I'm still well behind the world records, but I have beaten pretty much all of the current collegeate athletes. [[User:RegularSizedGuy|RegularSizedGuy]] ([[User talk:RegularSizedGuy|talk]]) 07:08, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
:Happy birthday :) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.16|172.70.86.16]] 12:59, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

"'''Unfortunately, I have terrible news'''" kind of feels to me like — almost — there is a pop culture reference here that I am missing (I'd say I feel 33% of the way towards that feeling; certainly somewhere less likely than even). It just seems like a little too strong of a statement to be what President Cueball would say in the moment. That said, I can't find any support for such a half-baked theory. Although there is an "I have terrible news" (without "Unfortunately") from [https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2572734/characters/nm0278979 The Office, Season 9, "Vandalism"] ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eo8RzH-6Tfw&t=614s video]), but it doesn't strike me as particularly significant. 
¶ Apart from that, I sort of expected more emphasis on obscure schemes, like (a) increasing the average altitude of the rival university to increase its velocity for the tiny relativistic effect, e.g. by funding construction of an observatory for its astronomy department; (b) attempting to measure the founding dates more precisely, e.g. what if it were only 1-year-183-days older; (c) merger with the rival, ala the proposed MIT/Harvard mergers of the early 20th century; &c. [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 09:51, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

: I thought the terrible new was that, after sending the rival university on a round trip at relativistic speed, due to an unfortuneate miscalculation, the rival university would collide with Earth while still going too fast, causing the destruction of the planet. --[[User:Itub|Itub]] ([[User talk:Itub|talk]]) 11:51, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

: I think it's more a commentary on the futility of university administration plans and goals, given that actual success for a prestigious university involves mostly decisions entirely out of administration hands. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.109|162.158.90.109]] 20:55, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
:: What do you think the universities alluded to were? I'm guessing MIT in 1861 and UMass (originally Amherst) in 1863. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.186.20|162.158.186.20]] 21:39, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
:::From the deletions at [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2968:_University_Age&diff=prev&oldid=348220], "The particular years referenced in the comic (218 years before 2024 would require a university founded in 1806) do not appear to match with any institution of higher learning in the United States. However, there is a very close near-twin that this might refer to - Miami University was founded in 1809, making it 215 years old, and Ohio University was founded in 1804, making it 220 years old."
:::Of course, those are in different states. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.100|108.162.245.100]] 01:15, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

:Wouldn't it be more sensible (or less un-sensible...) to dig down your own one, instead of artificially elevating the other one? --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 07:13, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

The way I read the "overtaking our rival by 3" part was that part of the "intensive program" was the sabotage of the other university, effectively ending its aging. This would then be the terrible news to share. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.166.219|172.71.166.219]] 14:02, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

Talk:2962: President Venn Diagram

2024-07-23T06:30:43Z

Lupo:

Another really timely comic. Biden just dropped out of the race and endorsed Harris yesterday. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 01:58, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Forget Biden, Hillary and Obama. This is the endorsement that counts. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.23.199|172.68.23.199]] 01:58, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

I suppose no one is allowed to say that the upper right circle is mislabeled. It was supposed to say incompetent, dishonest and despicable. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.25|162.158.90.25]] 02:07, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
:You're allowed to say it, but then we're allowed to suggest (with rather more emperical proof) that her presumptive opponent better fits your rewording. How about we all just don't try to re-run the old arguments (or pre-run the upcoming election) in that sort of tone, eh?
:(To be clear, Randall has made positive comments to his favoured candidate, rather than stooping to arbitrarily attacking their opponent. If you can't at least be as positive in your own convictions then it's really not going to help your cause.) [[Special:Contributions/172.69.195.6|172.69.195.6]] 04:10, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
::First, Harris has more than one opponent, not just within her own party, but in the general election to follow if she’s nominated. Second, the many good qualities of my favo[u]red candidate are irrelevant to this comic, so I didn’t mention ''her''. Third, I didn’t start this political discussion; Randall did, by making a refutable claim in his comic. Lastly, there’s nothing arbitrary about a resident of California pointing out facts about the former attorney general of California that people in other states, such as Massachusetts, might be completely ignorant of. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.186.253|162.158.186.253]] 05:45, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Well Kamala, you had a good run. Randall has the touch of death when it comes to picking political candidates. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.39|162.158.154.39]] 03:02, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
:You mean that no candidate endorsed by XKCD has ever won? ;) https://xkcd.com/2383/ [[User:Fabian42|Fabian42]] ([[User talk:Fabian42|talk]]) 04:35, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Randall angling for VP? [[User:Alcatraz ii|Alcatraz ii]] ([[User talk:Alcatraz ii|talk]]) 02:59, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

I think Randall would be good president. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 03:52, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
:Meh, he seems to at least not be good at public speaking. And from what he says about himself, he would be distracted way too easily. [[User:Fabian42|Fabian42]] ([[User talk:Fabian42|talk]]) 04:35, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

The layout of this Venn diagram reminds me of https://xkcd.com/112/ {{unsigned ip|162.158.166.234|03:04, 23 July 2024}}

I think I would probably swap the two. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.174.23|162.158.174.23]] 04:03, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

I would be very interested in which non-Politicians Randall would put into the top middle section. [[User:Fabian42|Fabian42]] ([[User talk:Fabian42|talk]]) 04:35, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

I guess Munroe has no issues with questions about ongoing U.S. backed genocides shrugged off with "shrimp and grits!"? {{unsigned|Markifi}}

What really strikes me is that the USA have a (de facto) 2-Party system and still go so much into personal attacks and endorsements, etc. which in my mind could be the decision-making bit between 2 similiar parties in a multi-party system, or 2 equally sympathic parties to me. But in my mind a 2-party system should at least have the upside of actually discussing policy, and voters deciding based on that... --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 06:30, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Talk:2957: A Crossword Puzzle

2024-07-11T12:12:52Z

Lupo:

compare https://www.buttersafe.com/2011/02/17/crosswords/ --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.236|162.158.158.236]] 20:50, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
:randall has now updated the header for this comic to "Today's comic accidentally inspired by this Buttersafe comic from 2011!" and i feel bad for having spotted the similarity and commented on it within 1 minute of this page's creation --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.248|162.158.62.248]] 03:48, 11 July 2024 (UTC) (same anon as above)
::I have made this [[2957:_A_Crossword_Puzzle#Trivia|trivia]] about it and updated the [[Header text]] with this comics new one. This will ave to be updated after Fridays comic comes out. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:06, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

it's *A* crossword puzzle for a reason ;) -- 21:05, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
:I suspect that that reason is that someone will inevitably compare the information content of solving this crossword puzzle to the information content of narrating 1190. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.35.21|172.70.35.21]] 01:25, 11 July 2024 (UTC) I didn't sign. Was that rude? I'm new here, is it ok if I just ask questions?

i’m trying to table-ify it but i keep getting edit conflicted. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.30.93|172.71.30.93]] 21:24, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Surprised something like "Jagged and loose Hawaiian lava flow (2)" couldn't be fit in (unless I've missed it). Maybe because there were no two-letter answers at all, of course. (I think... Again, maybe I'm missing them.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.38|172.70.86.38]] 21:30, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

unfortunate that [https://tmbw.net/wiki/Aaa "antepenultimate track of They Might Be Giants' ''Glean''"] did not make it in --[[Special:Contributions/172.70.230.200|172.70.230.200]] 21:35, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
:And where is "Fonzie's catch-phrase"? Or does that end with a Y? [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 23:02, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Did I use the calculator wrong, or 12356631 in base 26 equals 111111, not AAAAAA? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.90.180|172.69.90.180]] 22:33, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
:anyone using base 26 is probably likely to be using all 26 letters, instead of ten numbers and sixteen letters. contextless, i would usually assume any base has standard decimal digits, but liberties have already been taken here so why not (please sign)
::I wasn’t sure enough to comment, but it looks like he miscalculated. 26^5 + 26^4 + 26^3 + 26^2 + 26^1 + 26^0 = 12355631 = 111111 in base 26. To be AAAAAA it would have to be 123556310. Of course, maybe he’s using A through Z instead of the expected 0 through 9 followed by letters A through P, the way hexadecimal is. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.52|172.70.210.52]] 23:16, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
:::If he’s using the letters A through Z as the ‘digits’ for base 26, then he’s still wrong, because A would be 0, Z would be 25 and 12355631 decimal would be --[[User:Elfakyn|Elfakyn]] ([[User talk:Elfakyn|talk]]) 06:47, 11 July 2024 (UTC)BBBBBB in that base 26. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.235|172.70.210.235]] 00:54, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
:The "Qalculate" program has a number base setting called "Bijective base 26", which outputs the answer as "AAAAAAB26. [[User:Fabian42|Fabian42]] ([[User talk:Fabian42|talk]]) 01:23, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

I'm surprised he didn't make this interactive, so you could type into all the cells to fill out the crossword. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 23:02, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

I made and discarded various theories what the joke might be while I read through the questions, including all numbers, at least two possible solutions for the entire puzzle (I think that happened once in a newspaper), unknowable answers, … Only when I got to the "disregard for gravity" thing did I suspect the right answer and only because I once saw a meta gaming Stack exchange question about its tag. Otherwise it might have taken me until the Morse code question. This was really well hidden! [[User:Fabian42|Fabian42]] ([[User talk:Fabian42|talk]]) 01:23, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

i dare not think about how long this took to make. [[user talk:lettherebedarklight|youtu.be/miLcaqq2Zpk]] 01:31, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

:In all honesty, this is probably easier to make than a regular crossword puzzle. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.3.146|172.69.3.146]] 05:48, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

https://crosshare.org/crosswords/2YcIAgtQCMBK6clsrNK4/mini-39-literally-screaming [[Special:Contributions/172.71.146.4|172.71.146.4]] 02:29, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

It's traditionally doctors that ask you to "say AAAAAAA" when they examine your throat. I'm pretty sure 36 across is supposed to be a joke about how dentists make smalltalk with their fingers in your mouth. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.126.10|172.70.126.10]] 04:24, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

I filled in the answers. Can someone add the solved image? I don't have file upload permissions. https://i.imgur.com/AlDIT1p.png --[[User:Elfakyn|Elfakyn]] ([[User talk:Elfakyn|talk]]) 06:47, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

bro tried to nerd-snipe us 😭 [[Special:Contributions/172.69.194.96|172.69.194.96]] 07:30, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

People without aphantasia can visualize words in front of them to solve puzzles like 18-across? That's quite impressive, I have to painstakingly count the letters in my head! [[User:Maplestrip|Maplestrip]] ([[User talk:Maplestrip|talk]]) 08:05, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

Every third letter in 'aphantasia' is 'hti'.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.18|172.70.162.18]] 08:17, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
:The clue is written like '''E'''ve'''R'''... to give that hint, that it starts on the first letter. Also if you need 4 letters startign on the first and ending on the last is the only way to get a 4 letter answer out of it. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 12:12, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

The Ruby Rhod one is misleading; his ''actual'' catchphrase in the movie is "green", which fits perfectly in the given space. -[[User:Nyerguds|Nyerguds]] ([[User talk:Nyerguds|talk]]) 09:22, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

We need someone to make a picture where it has been solved... :-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 10:15, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

It seems useful (and funny) to supply the answer(s). Should we show the completed puzzle (which raises questions of font choice) or add a column to the table? My preference would be adding the column. -- [[User:Dtgriscom|Dtgriscom]] ([[User talk:Dtgriscom|talk]]) 11:01, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

Talk:2905: Supergroup

2024-03-12T15:01:22Z

Lupo:

== Title text ==

Isn't the sum in the title text wrong? It should be ''99 Luftballoons'' (or the English cover ''99 Red Balloons'') + ''101 Dalmatians'' + ''I'm Gonna Be (500 Miles)'' = 700 balloons, dalmatians and miles (not 1,200).--[[Special:Contributions/141.101.69.103|141.101.69.103]]
:Maybe it's about Vanessa Carlton's "A Thousand Miles"? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.65.245|172.69.65.245]] 22:13, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
:Note that ''I'm Gonna Be'' is actually about walking 1000 miles, not 500 miles. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.39.41|172.70.39.41]] 08:36, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

"cover" implies that the combined song already exists and was performed by some other group. I would expect that this supergroup would have created the medley themselves, to fit their particular genre. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 22:23, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

"101 Dalmations" isn't a well known song AFAIK. It was written as the title song of the Disney movie, but wasn't actually used. Wikipedia says it got released on other albums. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 22:38, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

== Comic ==

I don't know all the bands, but it looks like they are: 21 Pilots, 5 Seconds of Summer, 4 Non Blondes, 2 Live Crew, 100 GEC, 3 Doors Down, 9 Inch Nails, 1 Republic, 1 Direction, 30 Seconds to Mars.

== Missed Opportunity ==

I am surprised there were no references to orthosymplectic or superunitary groups.
:That's what I originally thought the joke would be about. This is much more mundane. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 22:34, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
:Well if ''G'' and ''H'' are groups and ''G'' ⊇ ''H'', then ''G'' is a supergroup of ''H'', isn't it? --[[User:Coconut Galaxy|Coconut Galaxy]] ([[User talk:Coconut Galaxy|talk]]) 13:39, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

== extras ==

throw in:

* {{w|23 Skidoo (band)|23 Skidoo}}
* {{w|400 Blows (British band)|400 Blows}}

--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.63.76|162.158.63.76]] 07:10, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

:{{w|Five Finger Death Punch}}
:{{w|Six Feet Under (band)|Six Feet Under}} --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 13:37, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

I remember a great film, ''The Magnificently Dirty Nineteen''. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.195.155|172.69.195.155]]
:Don't forget the sequel ''The Fantastic Ocean's Taking of Pelham Slaughterhouse 143'' [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 14:07, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
::And the supercut "The Fast and the Furious 41" --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 15:01, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Talk:2905: Supergroup

2024-03-12T13:37:00Z

Lupo:

== Title text ==

Isn't the sum in the title text wrong? It should be ''99 Luftballoons'' (or the English cover ''99 Red Balloons'') + ''101 Dalmatians'' + ''I'm Gonna Be (500 Miles)'' = 700 balloons, dalmatians and miles (not 1,200).--[[Special:Contributions/141.101.69.103|141.101.69.103]]
:Maybe it's about Vanessa Carlton's "A Thousand Miles"? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.65.245|172.69.65.245]] 22:13, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
:Note that ''I'm Gonna Be'' is actually about walking 1000 miles, not 500 miles. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.39.41|172.70.39.41]] 08:36, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

"cover" implies that the combined song already exists and was performed by some other group. I would expect that this supergroup would have created the medley themselves, to fit their particular genre. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 22:23, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

"101 Dalmations" isn't a well known song AFAIK. It was written as the title song of the Disney movie, but wasn't actually used. Wikipedia says it got released on other albums. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 22:38, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

== Comic ==

I don't know all the bands, but it looks like they are: 21 Pilots, 5 Seconds of Summer, 4 Non Blondes, 2 Live Crew, 100 GEC, 3 Doors Down, 9 Inch Nails, 1 Republic, 1 Direction, 30 Seconds to Mars.

== Missed Opportunity ==

I am surprised there were no references to orthosymplectic or superunitary groups.
:That's what I originally thought the joke would be about. This is much more mundane. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 22:34, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

== extras ==

throw in:

* {{w|23 Skidoo (band)|23 Skidoo}}
* {{w|400 Blows (British band)|400 Blows}}

--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.63.76|162.158.63.76]] 07:10, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

:{{w|Five Finger Death Punch}}
:{{w|Six Feet Under (band)|Six Feet Under}} --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 13:37, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

I remember a great film, ''The Magnificently Dirty Nineteen''. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.195.155|172.69.195.155]]

Talk:2869: Puzzles

2023-12-19T13:28:01Z

Lupo:

Aunt Alice is obviously a reference to the standard Alice / Bob / Eve crypto protocol characters. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.219|162.158.158.219]] 20:00, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Anyone know if this is an actual scene from an actual children's book? Or is it just sort of an ad hoc representation of how these things might typically go? -- MeZimm [[Special:Contributions/172.68.2.107|172.68.2.107]] 20:27, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

:Something about this reminded me of *The 39 Clues*? Which I've never read, so I don't know why. Looking them up, Wikipedia says book 1 leads to the clue "iron solute", and the fact that it specifically anagrams to "resolution" (sounds backwards, I'd think the final one would be "iron solute") - never mind that it could be many, many other things, such as "tonsure oil" or "ursine loot" (honey) or "oriole nuts" or "urine stool" or lots of other less-immediately-interpretable-as-an-ingredient things. And never mind that this clue was supposedly hidden by Ben Franklin, old enough that I wouldn't trust anything that relies on very specific spellings. I would assume that other puzzles within the book, and the rest of the series, are of similar dubiousness. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.146.183|162.158.146.183]] 04:15, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

:"Aunt Gertrude" suggests *The Hardy Boys* series of children's novels. I don't recall this particular scene. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.46|172.70.85.46]] 20:38, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

::I don't think Aunt Gertrude ever set Frank and Joe a puzzle herself, but it is certainly evocative of several puzzles in the Hardy Boys. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.151.136|172.71.151.136]] 21:07, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

:::Can anyone with stronger Hardy Boys knowledge add some examples? I never read the Hardy Boys books or similiar kid mysteries, so it's hard to imagine how thin those mysteries got, to be compared to "character name -> random letter/word association -> answer" as used here without some examples. [[User:Mneme|Mneme]] ([[User talk:Mneme|talk]]) 22:57, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

::::I read seven of the earliest Hardy books plus about that many around #100, give or take. They didn't use a lot of word clues, it was more about who looks shady/innocent (but isn't), interviews, half-overheard crime plans, footprints, vehicle tracing, a suspect lost a hat/glove/crossbow, etc. The only word clues I recall off the top of my head were: shipment abbreviations (easy), a crook deathbed-confessing where he hid his loot (but the boys search the wrong building, confusing them), a bit of Morse Code (bonus for Frank sending it to Aunt Gertrude, and she understood despite the fact that she ''hated'' the idea of her nephews getting into danger), and two or three other coded distress signals (which the boys and/or their expert detective dad had already discussed beforehand). The most obscure of those signals I can recall was from The Mystery of Cabin Island -- Google that name plus "''alley'' cat" and you'll see how difficult it was (i.e. not at all) for them to guess that shady-guy-of-the-week Mr. ''Hanleigh'' was dangerous. (there was also a time when their computer-geek friend cracked a password, but it wasn't really a puzzle -- the computer belonged to a medieval faire technician, so I think the friend just brute-forced medieval words until he got in) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.175.126|172.70.175.126]] 00:18, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

::::The Mystery of Cabin Island included a substitution cipher that was not trivial (at least to crack by hand). The cipher told the location of the stolen medals. The Yellow Feather Mystery used a platen (a piece of paper with cutouts which, when placed on the proper source text, reveal the hidden message) as the device to reveal the location of a dead man's will. I also recall a time when the Hardy's pilot friend Jack Wayne was kidnapped and could only communicate in an obfuscated radio message that was something like 'beware the bite'. Turns out he mean the homophon 'bight', like a curve or recess in a coastline (it was a geograpical reference). There was a public domain Hardy story published earlier this year, The Crypto Mine Cypher, which involves a group of thieves that are stealing electricity to run a crypto mine as well as stealing NFTs and crypto via a drainer smart contract. Perhaps that would be more to Randall's liking? --[[Special:Contributions/172.69.58.14|172.69.58.14]] 06:21, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

::::The Secret of the Lost Tunnel has a good example of a multi-layered mystery involving codes. A piece of paper is hidden in an ammo box. The paper itself is a sort of book cipher that when decoded just gives a clue to location ("Find coin in iron"), not much better than "diG a hole in the Ground", really. Of course this was a reference to hiding a lot of gold in some cannon balls.

Could someone add a category for "Alice and Bob" comics? Right now, the list seems to be 177, 1323, 2440, 2691, 2869. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.233.38|162.158.233.38]] 22:07, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
:I'm not convinced that [[2440]] should be in the list; at best, it's using similar naming patterns. [[User:BunsenH|BunsenH]] ([[User talk:BunsenH|talk]]) 22:48, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
::Eve is clearly mentioned in the title text (Evangeline the Adulterator, which is clearly a reference to Eve from 177).
::: ''Is'' Evangeline the Adulterator clearly a reference to Eve? [[User:BunsenH|BunsenH]] ([[User talk:BunsenH|talk]]) 23:57, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
::: Well, 2440 doesn't mention anything about Evangeline the Adulterator except that she is named Evangeline and presumably adulterates. But in 177, Eve (not Evangeline) is the adulterat''ed'', not the adulterat''or''. That would be Alice, since Bob was in a relationship with Eve, not Alice. It feels disingenuous to say that they ''might'' be the same person; there's no proof they ''aren't'', but there are no reasons to think they ''are''. [[User:GreatWyrmGold|GreatWyrmGold]] ([[User talk:GreatWyrmGold|talk]]) 00:52, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
:::I've always felt that xkcd fans are better than even conspiracy theorists at finding connections that don't exist[[Special:Contributions/172.69.6.15|172.69.6.15]] 13:26, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

I think Aunt Vergenie would leave a clue that has some specific content and requires some effort to understand, but isn't simply impossible to figure out without the key like Aunt Alice's. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.170|162.158.154.170]] 05:04, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Is it worth putting in this scene from Batman 66 as a similar example? Even if it is A. TV instead of book and B. Making fun of the idea itself
https://youtu.be/M-vAlR3-Ovg

Commissioner Gordon : It could be any one of them. But which one? Which ones?

Batman : Pretty *fishy* what happened to me on that ladder.

Commissioner Gordon : You mean where there's a fish there could be a Penguin?

Robin : But wait! It happened at sea. See? C for Catwoman!

Batman : Yet, an exploding shark *was* pulling my leg...

Commissioner Gordon : The Joker!

Chief O'Hara : All adds up to a sinister riddle. Riddle-R. Riddler!

Commissioner Gordon : Oh, the thought strikes me. So dreadful, I scarcely dare give it utterance.

Batman : The four of them. Their forces combined.

Robin : Holy nightmare

I feel like the explanation needs at least one example, from somewhere.
[[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.118|162.158.74.118]] 10:21, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Aunt Alice did, but when she told her will to her lawyer Bob, Eve listened in and got the tresure before... --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 13:28, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Talk:2832: Urban Planning Opinion Progression

2023-09-25T09:00:48Z

Lupo:

Why does anyone want their city to be walkable? We have buses, Uber, and subways, so why walk anywhere other than to/from the station? [[User:SDSpivey|SDSpivey]] ([[User talk:SDSpivey|talk]]) 18:34, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
:Walking is free. It is flexible. Why would you want to take a Uber across 2 blocks of parkign to get to the next store, instead of having it right next to the one you just came from? Also it is nice for socializing, it is (quite light) exercise, and good for businesses, as you can actually "window-shop" and see what they have as you walk past and spontaniously walk into any store/restaurant/business. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 06:24, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
::If you are just going across the parking lot, then it is already walkable. No further expense needed. Also, I sincerely do not know the last time I saw a store window that had any merchandise display. Perhaps that is not done in Florida. [[User:SDSpivey|SDSpivey]] ([[User talk:SDSpivey|talk]]) 06:40, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
:::It's a hen and egg thing. If everyone is driving, you don't need to put anything in the video, because there is noone to see it. But if the storefronts are not attractive thats one less reason to walk. And crossing a huge parking lot may in theory be walkable, but it is not really an enviroment attractive to walk through. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 09:00, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

Somebody has been watching Not Just Bikes on YouTube...
:Orange Pilled!!🙂 [[User:Torzsmokus|Torzsmokus]] ([[User talk:Torzsmokus|talk]]) 19:43, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

I would be very interested in having a discussion based on the "livability" comment. If a city is a place to LIVE, then these are fair comments, assuming that travel outside the local area is minimal. But if a city is a place to WORK, like a lot of downtown areas in the Eastern US, then this doesn't hold up as well. People don't live in these areas, they just travel to them on a regular basis.
:Talk about missing the forest for the trees
:Agree, downtown areas SHOULD be places to work, live, shop, and play. Eastern US downtowns USED to be that way, until White Flight screwed everything up and created "car culture". It's long past due for cities to change back. - [[User:Frankie|Frankie]] ([[User talk:Frankie|talk]]) 15:59, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
::You can't really blame white flight considering the same thing happened in both 'racially homogenous' cities in the U.S. and in Canada. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.174.251|172.70.174.251]] 17:22, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
: One thing that always bugs me about these discussions is that they tend to be so city-centric in thinking. Bikes simply aren't a practical mode of transportation in a lot of areas, dating back to pre-car days. I live in a rural area of the southern midwest, and "town" is a concentration of places that people in the area go to, and always has been. Only really wealthy people had houses in town, and even then they were often "Sunday Houses" where you would stay during your weekend trip to town for groceries and church BECAUSE it was such a hassle before cars. There's a "historic" (read: tourist-friendly) walkable town square in the center of many towns in my area, but these are as a rule businesses, some of which have loft apartments because the owner lived there too as some of the town's few constant residents. Even the parking lots are basically paved versions of the spaces where people would park their wagons and tie their horses back in the day, placed near things like general stores because hauling groceries for several blocks is a pain in any era. [[User:Scorpion451|Scorpion451]] ([[User talk:Scorpion451|talk]]) 18:59, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
:: I've never really lived in small towns on this side of the world, but this video does a pretty good job on approaching urbanism from a rural perspective: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKRr8ymaqBM [[User:Yaygya|Yaygya]] ([[User talk:Yaygya|talk]]) 23:38, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
:: More generally, it's not really a useful, meaningful, or fair comparison between a densely populated country like the Netherlands (>1000/mi*mi) and a sparsely populated country like the USA (<100/mi*mi). All the USA's wide-open spaces are the actual physical reason we have a "car culture". It's not just people being deliberately being stupid or something. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.222.237|172.71.222.237]] 01:24, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
::: People aren't evenly spread over the US though, and nobody commutes from LA to NYC. 80% of people in the US live in cities. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.182.2|172.71.182.2]] 16:24, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

:Places meant for work and work alone are called 'industrial parks'. People's well-being in offices can significantly benefit from green spaces and other amenities like bars and shops.
:Especially if they feel safe walking to and from those shops. --[[User:Melle|Melle]] ([[User talk:Melle|talk]]) 16:54, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
:: Honestly, what impresses me the most about the Netherlands is not their neighbourhoods or city centres, it's their industrial parks. Dutch industrial parks are so much nicer it's not even funny. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDXB0CY2tSQ [[User:Yaygya|Yaygya]] ([[User talk:Yaygya|talk]]) 23:38, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

The explainxkcd explanations have gotten kinda funny, but I wanted to add that some european cities have sidewalks wider than roads, and it’s a much different experience. People like openness. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.55|162.158.62.55]] 17:46, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

Honestly, I do not know how to format it, however this is the citation about painted vs protected bike lanes: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2214140523001056?dgcid=author [[User:Vdm|Vdm]] ([[User talk:Vdm|talk]]) 21:44, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

Yes, cities are much better place to live in without so many cars. But on the other hand, vacation without car is much more complicated, unless your idea of vacation is to get to exactly same place as everyone else. Soo ... where will all those cars go? I know, you could rent a car, but that only works if there wouldn't be times where EVERYONE suddenly needs car ... like, say, Christmas.

Also, no, bikes are not alternative to cars unless you can get shower when you arrive at work. Public transport could work, but bikes are just nice theory.

To conclude, I don't think trying to turn all cities into Amsterdam will work. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 22:07, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
: Bikes are an incredibly helpful and useful tool for getting around. You don't even have to turn a city into Amsterdam. I live in Edmonton, which is by no means an urbanist utopia, and even getting around here, combining a bicycle with public transit makes it so much easier and faster to get around. The issue I face is lugging my bike with me, in which case a bike share service like Montréal's BIXI would help out for getting around.
: Regarding your point on vacation, first of all, most people end up going to the same places for vacation anyway. And vacation without bringing a car can very much be done, and even at high-demand times, the places where "everyone needs a car" are places where everyone will be going anyway, at which point a train just makes more sense. About a decade ago, my family took a trip from New Delhi to Goa a decade back (around 1800 km away) and we took trains to get there. We rented a car to get around in Goa and it worked pretty well. Not saying that cars aren't useful at all, but they aren't a 100% necessity. They're most useful when you're heading somewhere that's out of the way, and I've done those sorts of trips too. [[User:Yaygya|Yaygya]] ([[User talk:Yaygya|talk]]) 23:38, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

"...by allowing cyclists to cycle in the streets with the cars". ''Allowing''? Sorry, but that's a very neo-biker (or "person on a bike", rather than an actual cyclist) attitude that unfortunately seems to pervade the mindset of drivers. At least in the UK, bicycles have been 'allowed' (indeed, obliged) to ride upon the roads, as of laws as far back as [http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Will4/5-6/50/section/72 1885] and are legitimate road vehicles and also not supposed to be ridden on actual pavements(/sidewalks) where not explicitly allowed. Of course, the US has policies driven (c.f. jaywalking). But a bicycle is a road vehicle. Add extra permissive routes (in the same manner as allowing traffic of less than three tonnes over a bridge, without forcing everything within that limit to do so) but you'd be wrong to suggest, over here, that you'd have to ''allow'' cyclists to cycle in(/on) the streets. Though the modern 'MAMILs' are often as wrong about all this (and as damaging to the reputation of real cyclists) as far too many motorists are. Of course, this may not reflect the US situation (or state/township legislations), but then they were influenced by the car-lobby to create the jaywalking 'crime' as well, so I really wouldn't be surprised. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.62|162.158.74.62]] 22:16, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

I went to the Netherlands on vacation last month and I strongly identify with the guy waving flags and yelling "Netherlands! Netherlands! Netherlands!" in this comic. I was in Rotterdam, not Amsterdam, but I also spent a day in Enschede (near the border with Germany), and the sight was the same: bicycles everywhere, to a degree that would seem absurd anywhere else. I don't think it can be properly expressed in words; one look at the bicycle parking in Rotterdam Central Station and I was in awe that _so many bicycles_ could exist in one place. I used a bicycle to explore from The Haag to Neetle Jans and everywhere I went it was the same story; it isn't just Amsterdam, the entire country is built with bicycles as a solid and safe transportation option. --Faultline 11:32, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

Speaking from the perspective of the UK, Cyclists (and I speak as one, with six decades of experience) are a complex issue. Being road vehicles (and requiring continuous at-grade surfaces, or at least smoothly transitioning slopes, whilst mounted) they need special consideration when laying out where they can go, outwith the baseline highway planning situation. And they also pose difficulties if improperly ridden in pedestrian areas, even if this is somehow due to being 'forced'(/’invited') off the roads by motorists and/or town planners that are in turn posing difficulties to them (legislatively, physically or just psychologically). In an ideal world, there would be no need for cycle lanes (on road), let alone cycle paths (split or shared pavement/sidewalk). And as it is not possible to have cycle-segregation everywhere (ignoring the question of whether forced segregation is a good policy!), I feel that attempting to take bicycles (or indeed other types of cycle!) off the road where it is easy and/or virtue-signalling makes the roads worse for cyclists ''everywhere else''. (And also the pavements worse for pedestrians, everywhere else!) 
There are (according to a quick check) 262,300 miles of paved road in the UK. Apart from the motorways (2,300 miles) and a smattering of other "no cycling" roads (often "motorway standard link roads" or major bridges), all of these are viable cycling routes. Maybe you'd not feel safe on some other routes (mostly a problem stemming from motorists, not the highways), so call it a cool quarter of a million miles. Compare with (again, a quick and unconfirmed check) the apparently 5,220 miles of traffic-free cycle paths (some 'cross country', bridleways/ex-railway/etc, others directly parallel to 'bike unfriendly/hostile/illegal' roadways) and 7,519 miles of on-road cycle lanes (paint and/or bollard-segregated, and I assume this includes bike+bus+taxi lanes and variations on that theme). Clearly, most places that you might want to cycle are not anywhere near covered by a convenient cycle-only(/dominant) path/road/lane/whatever. Even accounting for population density bias (a path-equipped city-centre ''can'' perhaps have a good few hundred thousand cyclists commuting along its copious off-street routes, whereas some remote area of equivalent road-length doesn't have more than a dozen people cycling around/through its country lanes on any given day), there's a distinct gap. 
And the problem is that car drivers (myself also being one, though only ''four'' decades behind the wheel, so what would I know?) seem to start to not anticipate bicycles on the road (or horses, or tractors, or anyone also driving but not actually going at-or-above the posted speed limit, etc) and at best they are startled/annoyed when they encounter their fellow road-users in different contexts. At worst, they 'come into contention' in a rather nasty way for at least one of the parties involved. 
'People on bikes' don't help when they (whether drivers themselves or not) do not obey [https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/rules-for-cyclists-59-to-82 the rules of the road], and/or footway. They give actual cyclists a bad name, make motorists less tolerant of those who actually are folling both the rights and responsibilities of cycle traffic and cause 'contention' with pedestrians on ''their'' supposedly safer routes (and road crossings), amongst other issues. The number of times I've seen someone progress rapidly down a pavement on two wheels, having to swerve round people, swerve to cross side-roads (to use the disabled-friendly drop-curbs), hop onto the road and back on again because of obstructions (curb-mounted parked cars/construction works) and all disrupting (or even causing danger to everyone else off/on the road)... Quite often, they would have been quicker ''and safer'' to have just ridden on the road ''with'' the traffic (without earphones in, they'd also be much more aware so could overtake the slower traffic legally and in full consideration). 
Even worse, when there's a 'pavement biker' riding alongside a road ''with a clearly marked cycle lane'' on it. Road space reserved, but they're endangering pedestrians (and potentially themselves) needlessly. But, adding in the reckless pedestrians who do ''their'' dangerous things (walking up the central reservation of a dual-carriageway, e.g.), it just goes to show that there are unthinking individuals using every form of locomotion and travel (I could moan about thoughtless bus/train passengers, too, and don't get me started on illegal eScooters, motorbikes that may skirt the rules to some extent and possibly soms illegal variations of eBike as well). But, insofar as cycling, I'm not convinced that (partially) changing the road system to mitigate for bad drivers is really the best solution. It barely scratches that surface, it gets abused/ignored by those it may be intended for, it makes those it isn't intended for more resentful/inconsiderate as a push-back and the only obvious and tangible metric is in the press release that "Trumpton Town Council has been able to add five more miles of cyclepath..." (which probably consists of several short stretches of red tarmac is frequently intruded upon by pre-existing highway signage/lamp-posts and frequent "Cyclists Dismount" advisories, running alongside a perfectly ridable road just so long as they filled the wheel-/suspension-damaging potholes and swept the gutters once in a while). 
Can you tell that I've often thought about all these issues? I could go on, or into more detail, but I reckon I've already written far too much, uninvited. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.218|172.70.85.218]] 11:48, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

The summation of the situation: 
UNSPECIFIED line + SHORT distance = bicycle, walking, etc. 
SPECIFIED line + SHORT distance = tram, everything in unspecified. 
SPECIFIED line + LONG distance = train. 
UNSPECIFIED line + LONG distance = automobile.
 
The '''most''' important combinations for urban planning are unspecified short and specified long which autos aren't good at. The one autos are good at is the least important. -- [[User:Andrewtheexplainer|Andrewtheexplainer]] ([[User talk:Andrewtheexplainer|talk]]) 15:43, 24 September 2023 ''(please sign your comments with <nowiki>~~</nowiki>~~)''
:In answer the the editor who asked the question in the Edit Summary, about what "SPECIFIED and UNSPECIFIED" mean: Purely from context, I believe "line" above means "route". Some routes are (or can be) established as consistently demanded (for commuting, shopping, between major hubs half a continent away, etc) and can be "specified" as schedulable service for mass transit/infrastructure (anything from viable greyhound route with suitable identifiable service stops to an airline route (requiring airports at each end) or something asking for a railway/hyperloop/road to be either maintained (because it already exists) or created (because it does not at the moment) and is worth the while for such a special consideration. There's a degree of predictability to it, because of a mix of the same people regularly needing to make the trip (e.g. commute) and/or a continual/periodic demand by new people to make that journey (e.g. touristic purposes).
:An 'unspecified' route, here, would then be anything ad-hoc, at a frequency or quantity of use well below any particular reason to uphold a service or infrastructure (or coordinated compound of such facilities, like a shuttle bus to and from the station/airport to collect those flying in from afar), and would be served by such private efforts across and through whatever generic routable methodologies exist to be be exploited.
:And each of those two distinctions is multiplied by (at least!) two separate distinctions, that of length. (I'd be tempted to further split into other distances. Maybe localised, district, intra-state (from a US perspective), national and international, but that'd depend on what groupings I was analusing, and obviously a train could take one from one end of a (large enough) neighbourhood to the other ''or'' across the country (with the right conenctivity, even into another one!), depending upon which train and where it stops. But the above seems sufficient, as opposed to my overthinking of it.) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.96|162.158.74.96]] 22:22, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

I would be weary of that "Netherlands" guy. https://what-if.xkcd.com/53/ https://what-if.xkcd.com/54/ and others [[Special:Contributions/162.158.22.17|162.158.22.17]] 23:44, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

I can't be completely sure because of the black-and-white, but I'm afraid the guy with the scull cap is holding his flags upside down. It should be a red, then a white, then a blue stripe top to bottom. It's a very understandable mistake if he visited in the last two years or so, as it has become a trend to fly the flag upside down as a protest to certain controversial government descisions.

Not my best contribution ever, but: Hup HOLLAND Hup!!

Talk:2832: Urban Planning Opinion Progression

2023-09-25T06:24:48Z

Lupo:

Why does anyone want their city to be walkable? We have buses, Uber, and subways, so why walk anywhere other than to/from the station? [[User:SDSpivey|SDSpivey]] ([[User talk:SDSpivey|talk]]) 18:34, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
:Walking is free. It is flexible. Why would you want to take a Uber across 2 blocks of parkign to get to the next store, instead of having it right next to the one you just came from? Also it is nice for socializing, it is (quite light) exercise, and good for businesses, as you can actually "window-shop" and see what they have as you walk past and spontaniously walk into any store/restaurant/business. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 06:24, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

Somebody has been watching Not Just Bikes on YouTube...
:Orange Pilled!!🙂 [[User:Torzsmokus|Torzsmokus]] ([[User talk:Torzsmokus|talk]]) 19:43, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

I would be very interested in having a discussion based on the "livability" comment. If a city is a place to LIVE, then these are fair comments, assuming that travel outside the local area is minimal. But if a city is a place to WORK, like a lot of downtown areas in the Eastern US, then this doesn't hold up as well. People don't live in these areas, they just travel to them on a regular basis.
:Talk about missing the forest for the trees
:Agree, downtown areas SHOULD be places to work, live, shop, and play. Eastern US downtowns USED to be that way, until White Flight screwed everything up and created "car culture". It's long past due for cities to change back. - [[User:Frankie|Frankie]] ([[User talk:Frankie|talk]]) 15:59, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
::You can't really blame white flight considering the same thing happened in both 'racially homogenous' cities in the U.S. and in Canada. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.174.251|172.70.174.251]] 17:22, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
: One thing that always bugs me about these discussions is that they tend to be so city-centric in thinking. Bikes simply aren't a practical mode of transportation in a lot of areas, dating back to pre-car days. I live in a rural area of the southern midwest, and "town" is a concentration of places that people in the area go to, and always has been. Only really wealthy people had houses in town, and even then they were often "Sunday Houses" where you would stay during your weekend trip to town for groceries and church BECAUSE it was such a hassle before cars. There's a "historic" (read: tourist-friendly) walkable town square in the center of many towns in my area, but these are as a rule businesses, some of which have loft apartments because the owner lived there too as some of the town's few constant residents. Even the parking lots are basically paved versions of the spaces where people would park their wagons and tie their horses back in the day, placed near things like general stores because hauling groceries for several blocks is a pain in any era. [[User:Scorpion451|Scorpion451]] ([[User talk:Scorpion451|talk]]) 18:59, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
:: I've never really lived in small towns on this side of the world, but this video does a pretty good job on approaching urbanism from a rural perspective: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKRr8ymaqBM [[User:Yaygya|Yaygya]] ([[User talk:Yaygya|talk]]) 23:38, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
:: More generally, it's not really a useful, meaningful, or fair comparison between a densely populated country like the Netherlands (>1000/mi*mi) and a sparsely populated country like the USA (<100/mi*mi). All the USA's wide-open spaces are the actual physical reason we have a "car culture". It's not just people being deliberately being stupid or something. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.222.237|172.71.222.237]] 01:24, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
::: People aren't evenly spread over the US though, and nobody commutes from LA to NYC. 80% of people in the US live in cities. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.182.2|172.71.182.2]] 16:24, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

:Places meant for work and work alone are called 'industrial parks'. People's well-being in offices can significantly benefit from green spaces and other amenities like bars and shops.
:Especially if they feel safe walking to and from those shops. --[[User:Melle|Melle]] ([[User talk:Melle|talk]]) 16:54, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
:: Honestly, what impresses me the most about the Netherlands is not their neighbourhoods or city centres, it's their industrial parks. Dutch industrial parks are so much nicer it's not even funny. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDXB0CY2tSQ [[User:Yaygya|Yaygya]] ([[User talk:Yaygya|talk]]) 23:38, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

The explainxkcd explanations have gotten kinda funny, but I wanted to add that some european cities have sidewalks wider than roads, and it’s a much different experience. People like openness. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.55|162.158.62.55]] 17:46, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

Honestly, I do not know how to format it, however this is the citation about painted vs protected bike lanes: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2214140523001056?dgcid=author [[User:Vdm|Vdm]] ([[User talk:Vdm|talk]]) 21:44, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

Yes, cities are much better place to live in without so many cars. But on the other hand, vacation without car is much more complicated, unless your idea of vacation is to get to exactly same place as everyone else. Soo ... where will all those cars go? I know, you could rent a car, but that only works if there wouldn't be times where EVERYONE suddenly needs car ... like, say, Christmas.

Also, no, bikes are not alternative to cars unless you can get shower when you arrive at work. Public transport could work, but bikes are just nice theory.

To conclude, I don't think trying to turn all cities into Amsterdam will work. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 22:07, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
: Bikes are an incredibly helpful and useful tool for getting around. You don't even have to turn a city into Amsterdam. I live in Edmonton, which is by no means an urbanist utopia, and even getting around here, combining a bicycle with public transit makes it so much easier and faster to get around. The issue I face is lugging my bike with me, in which case a bike share service like Montréal's BIXI would help out for getting around.
: Regarding your point on vacation, first of all, most people end up going to the same places for vacation anyway. And vacation without bringing a car can very much be done, and even at high-demand times, the places where "everyone needs a car" are places where everyone will be going anyway, at which point a train just makes more sense. About a decade ago, my family took a trip from New Delhi to Goa a decade back (around 1800 km away) and we took trains to get there. We rented a car to get around in Goa and it worked pretty well. Not saying that cars aren't useful at all, but they aren't a 100% necessity. They're most useful when you're heading somewhere that's out of the way, and I've done those sorts of trips too. [[User:Yaygya|Yaygya]] ([[User talk:Yaygya|talk]]) 23:38, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

"...by allowing cyclists to cycle in the streets with the cars". ''Allowing''? Sorry, but that's a very neo-biker (or "person on a bike", rather than an actual cyclist) attitude that unfortunately seems to pervade the mindset of drivers. At least in the UK, bicycles have been 'allowed' (indeed, obliged) to ride upon the roads, as of laws as far back as [http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Will4/5-6/50/section/72 1885] and are legitimate road vehicles and also not supposed to be ridden on actual pavements(/sidewalks) where not explicitly allowed. Of course, the US has policies driven (c.f. jaywalking). But a bicycle is a road vehicle. Add extra permissive routes (in the same manner as allowing traffic of less than three tonnes over a bridge, without forcing everything within that limit to do so) but you'd be wrong to suggest, over here, that you'd have to ''allow'' cyclists to cycle in(/on) the streets. Though the modern 'MAMILs' are often as wrong about all this (and as damaging to the reputation of real cyclists) as far too many motorists are. Of course, this may not reflect the US situation (or state/township legislations), but then they were influenced by the car-lobby to create the jaywalking 'crime' as well, so I really wouldn't be surprised. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.62|162.158.74.62]] 22:16, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

I went to the Netherlands on vacation last month and I strongly identify with the guy waving flags and yelling "Netherlands! Netherlands! Netherlands!" in this comic. I was in Rotterdam, not Amsterdam, but I also spent a day in Enschede (near the border with Germany), and the sight was the same: bicycles everywhere, to a degree that would seem absurd anywhere else. I don't think it can be properly expressed in words; one look at the bicycle parking in Rotterdam Central Station and I was in awe that _so many bicycles_ could exist in one place. I used a bicycle to explore from The Haag to Neetle Jans and everywhere I went it was the same story; it isn't just Amsterdam, the entire country is built with bicycles as a solid and safe transportation option. --Faultline 11:32, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

Speaking from the perspective of the UK, Cyclists (and I speak as one, with six decades of experience) are a complex issue. Being road vehicles (and requiring continuous at-grade surfaces, or at least smoothly transitioning slopes, whilst mounted) they need special consideration when laying out where they can go, outwith the baseline highway planning situation. And they also pose difficulties if improperly ridden in pedestrian areas, even if this is somehow due to being 'forced'(/’invited') off the roads by motorists and/or town planners that are in turn posing difficulties to them (legislatively, physically or just psychologically). In an ideal world, there would be no need for cycle lanes (on road), let alone cycle paths (split or shared pavement/sidewalk). And as it is not possible to have cycle-segregation everywhere (ignoring the question of whether forced segregation is a good policy!), I feel that attempting to take bicycles (or indeed other types of cycle!) off the road where it is easy and/or virtue-signalling makes the roads worse for cyclists ''everywhere else''. (And also the pavements worse for pedestrians, everywhere else!) 
There are (according to a quick check) 262,300 miles of paved road in the UK. Apart from the motorways (2,300 miles) and a smattering of other "no cycling" roads (often "motorway standard link roads" or major bridges), all of these are viable cycling routes. Maybe you'd not feel safe on some other routes (mostly a problem stemming from motorists, not the highways), so call it a cool quarter of a million miles. Compare with (again, a quick and unconfirmed check) the apparently 5,220 miles of traffic-free cycle paths (some 'cross country', bridleways/ex-railway/etc, others directly parallel to 'bike unfriendly/hostile/illegal' roadways) and 7,519 miles of on-road cycle lanes (paint and/or bollard-segregated, and I assume this includes bike+bus+taxi lanes and variations on that theme). Clearly, most places that you might want to cycle are not anywhere near covered by a convenient cycle-only(/dominant) path/road/lane/whatever. Even accounting for population density bias (a path-equipped city-centre ''can'' perhaps have a good few hundred thousand cyclists commuting along its copious off-street routes, whereas some remote area of equivalent road-length doesn't have more than a dozen people cycling around/through its country lanes on any given day), there's a distinct gap. 
And the problem is that car drivers (myself also being one, though only ''four'' decades behind the wheel, so what would I know?) seem to start to not anticipate bicycles on the road (or horses, or tractors, or anyone also driving but not actually going at-or-above the posted speed limit, etc) and at best they are startled/annoyed when they encounter their fellow road-users in different contexts. At worst, they 'come into contention' in a rather nasty way for at least one of the parties involved. 
'People on bikes' don't help when they (whether drivers themselves or not) do not obey [https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/rules-for-cyclists-59-to-82 the rules of the road], and/or footway. They give actual cyclists a bad name, make motorists less tolerant of those who actually are folling both the rights and responsibilities of cycle traffic and cause 'contention' with pedestrians on ''their'' supposedly safer routes (and road crossings), amongst other issues. The number of times I've seen someone progress rapidly down a pavement on two wheels, having to swerve round people, swerve to cross side-roads (to use the disabled-friendly drop-curbs), hop onto the road and back on again because of obstructions (curb-mounted parked cars/construction works) and all disrupting (or even causing danger to everyone else off/on the road)... Quite often, they would have been quicker ''and safer'' to have just ridden on the road ''with'' the traffic (without earphones in, they'd also be much more aware so could overtake the slower traffic legally and in full consideration). 
Even worse, when there's a 'pavement biker' riding alongside a road ''with a clearly marked cycle lane'' on it. Road space reserved, but they're endangering pedestrians (and potentially themselves) needlessly. But, adding in the reckless pedestrians who do ''their'' dangerous things (walking up the central reservation of a dual-carriageway, e.g.), it just goes to show that there are unthinking individuals using every form of locomotion and travel (I could moan about thoughtless bus/train passengers, too, and don't get me started on illegal eScooters, motorbikes that may skirt the rules to some extent and possibly soms illegal variations of eBike as well). But, insofar as cycling, I'm not convinced that (partially) changing the road system to mitigate for bad drivers is really the best solution. It barely scratches that surface, it gets abused/ignored by those it may be intended for, it makes those it isn't intended for more resentful/inconsiderate as a push-back and the only obvious and tangible metric is in the press release that "Trumpton Town Council has been able to add five more miles of cyclepath..." (which probably consists of several short stretches of red tarmac is frequently intruded upon by pre-existing highway signage/lamp-posts and frequent "Cyclists Dismount" advisories, running alongside a perfectly ridable road just so long as they filled the wheel-/suspension-damaging potholes and swept the gutters once in a while). 
Can you tell that I've often thought about all these issues? I could go on, or into more detail, but I reckon I've already written far too much, uninvited. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.218|172.70.85.218]] 11:48, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

The summation of the situation: 
UNSPECIFIED line + SHORT distance = bicycle, walking, etc. 
SPECIFIED line + SHORT distance = tram, everything in unspecified. 
SPECIFIED line + LONG distance = train. 
UNSPECIFIED line + LONG distance = automobile.
 
The '''most''' important combinations for urban planning are unspecified short and specified long which autos aren't good at. The one autos are good at is the least important. -- [[User:Andrewtheexplainer|Andrewtheexplainer]] ([[User talk:Andrewtheexplainer|talk]]) 15:43, 24 September 2023 ''(please sign your comments with <nowiki>~~</nowiki>~~)''
:In answer the the editor who asked the question in the Edit Summary, about what "SPECIFIED and UNSPECIFIED" mean: Purely from context, I believe "line" above means "route". Some routes are (or can be) established as consistently demanded (for commuting, shopping, between major hubs half a continent away, etc) and can be "specified" as schedulable service for mass transit/infrastructure (anything from viable greyhound route with suitable identifiable service stops to an airline route (requiring airports at each end) or something asking for a railway/hyperloop/road to be either maintained (because it already exists) or created (because it does not at the moment) and is worth the while for such a special consideration. There's a degree of predictability to it, because of a mix of the same people regularly needing to make the trip (e.g. commute) and/or a continual/periodic demand by new people to make that journey (e.g. touristic purposes).
:An 'unspecified' route, here, would then be anything ad-hoc, at a frequency or quantity of use well below any particular reason to uphold a service or infrastructure (or coordinated compound of such facilities, like a shuttle bus to and from the station/airport to collect those flying in from afar), and would be served by such private efforts across and through whatever generic routable methodologies exist to be be exploited.
:And each of those two distinctions is multiplied by (at least!) two separate distinctions, that of length. (I'd be tempted to further split into other distances. Maybe localised, district, intra-state (from a US perspective), national and international, but that'd depend on what groupings I was analusing, and obviously a train could take one from one end of a (large enough) neighbourhood to the other ''or'' across the country (with the right conenctivity, even into another one!), depending upon which train and where it stops. But the above seems sufficient, as opposed to my overthinking of it.) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.96|162.158.74.96]] 22:22, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

I would be weary of that "Netherlands" guy. https://what-if.xkcd.com/53/ https://what-if.xkcd.com/54/ and others [[Special:Contributions/162.158.22.17|162.158.22.17]] 23:44, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

Talk:2055: Bluetooth

2023-08-09T12:26:21Z

Lupo:

Wireless charging standard may be a pun on the word "charging." Vikings were certainly known for "charging" into battle, and so Harald may indeed have invented a "wireless charging standard" or a standardized way for his Vikings to enter a battle. If so, it was unlikely to have used wires. {{unsigned|Tomkonrad}}
: That's just what I was thinking! [[User:Asimong|Asimong]] ([[User talk:Asimong|talk]]) 07:38, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
: Or maybe it's a "wireless charging _standard_" i.e. a flag signal which says "CHAAAARGE!!!!". The term "standard" would be somewhat off and anachronistic, though, but the general idea of giving a kind of visual signal to tell the troops to charge seems legit, imho. Albeit, in that time those signals were most commonly acoustic rather than visual. But I like the idea of playing with the word "standard" besides the word "charge" [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 07:47, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

Uh, I don't know anything really about Bluetooth, but do they really use accelerometer timing? That doesn't sound right... [[Special:Contributions/172.68.90.88|172.68.90.88]] 17:34, 5 October 2018 (UTC)SiliconWolf
: If you read it again, you should notice that WhiteHat admits that he's lying. Bluetooth doesn't pair that way. He was joking. [[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 19:05, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
:: Some of them do pair this way...sort of, their accelerometers tell them they've been picked up and get ready for close range communication (like a couple inches) that exchange information for their bluetooth settings[[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.190|162.158.75.190]] 19:47, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

My headphones use NFC to connect to my phone, I just have to hold the two devices together and they connect! Except they don't, in 90% of cases it doesn't react or I have to move it around a lot. But at least I can just turn the headphones and bluetooth on my phone on and they connect! Unless I have used the headphones for a different device previously, then I need to manually initiate the connection on my phone. Or just randomly when it isn't in a connection-making mood right now. But at least they work on all devices with Bluetooth! Except on my old laptop and my desktop PC (with bluetooth dongle), there it either has a horrible audio quality or completely freezes the system. But at least… No. [[User:Fabian42|Fabian42]] ([[User talk:Fabian42|talk]]) 17:37, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
: My tablet connects to any Bluetooth audio device, no problem; as long as I make it "Forget" every other device in its pairing list first, otherwise it tries to pair to a device which isn't even around. Also, my Mom's car doesn't have GPS navigation or 4G LTE service, but it doesn't seem to have a way to turn off Bluetooth, 4G, or the OnStar system, either. Also, her friend uses a set of Bluetooth speakers to play audio from her Mac, but you can only connect one speaker at a time unless you run a proprietary app which doesn't work very well. Also, neither my phone nor my tablet will transfer any file larger than 1MB by Bluetooth, since a couple system updates over a year ago (Oh, & only a few file types, too). Also, the audio delay when watching videos with Bluetooth audio is so pronounced I have to use a media player with manual A\V synch controls. Also, controlling a "smart TV" by Bluetooth doesn't work anymore for some reason, unless I install a specific app for each TV brand; Infrared still works fine. Also, I've still never had a Bluetooth headset that continues to work when the playback device is in my pocket & I take a step forward. Also, there's a Bluetooth HCI log file stored in my internal memory which gradually grows to hundreds of megs even though I don't have the setting for that log turned on. Also, whenever I turn Location on, or even exit Airplane mode, Bluetooth, WiFi, & NFC all activate briefly, even though I keep them turned off as much as possible; The icons don't light up, but my other devices show the polling attempts in their logs. I got suspicious enough to do a diagnostic & some scans, but aside from the usual usage-tracking from Google, there doesn't seem to be any spyware or malware installed. Bluetooth is awful. [[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 19:05, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

I miss the jokes in the incomplete discussion banner. Is there really not enough room for both a quip ''and'' the instructions? --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.154|108.162.245.154]] 21:16, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

[https://www.impossible.com/josiah/ Josiah Bluetooth] [[User:N0lqu|-boB]] ([[User talk:N0lqu|talk]]) 21:25, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

I tried to share link over bluetooth to three people. For one, it worked completely flawlessly. Second one got the file but then it got lost somehow and was unable to use the content. Third one ... the phones didn't even see each other. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 23:20, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

This car comes with Bluetooth compatibility. What's Bluetooth? Bluetooth is Bluetooth? What is it? BlUuUuUeEeEeToOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoth [[Special:Contributions/162.158.78.70|162.158.78.70]] 13:24, 6 October 2018 (UTC)

I’ve actually had a relatively positive experience with Bluetooth lately, at least compared to how it used to be. These days it’s actually useable, airpods work great to pair easily with other apple devices (usually).

Also where my old car couldn’t be connected to Bluetooth unless you wanted a deafening sound to blare whenever you got a call, and it couldn’t be used to play music, my new car’s media system works pretty well with Bluetooth music, the only annoyance being that when the car is set to a different audio source the phone still tries to route audio to it through Bluetooth, so there is silence when you expect sound from the phone, until you manually change it back to output through its internal speakers.

Bluetooth is still far from perfect, but it’s actually useable now, a huge leap from a few years ago. [[User:PotatoGod|PotatoGod]] ([[User talk:PotatoGod|talk]]) 16:38, 6 October 2018 (UTC)

Follow up a year and a half later:

Nope, Bluetooth routing still sucks in complex situations: when in a phone call over Bluetooth headphones, if I open my car's door to get something out of it (or someone else in my family does so in the garage while I'm in another room), and suddenly my phone call is routed through the car's speakers instead of my headphones, then I have to frantically switch the phone's output back to the headphones and apologize for needing to ask the person on the other end to repeat the last ten seconds of what they said. Happens every time, except sometimes it will go to speakerphone or the phone's internal speakers instead of the when the door is closed again.

Summary: Bluetooth is great at getting sound from point A to point B, and within an ecosystem (ie Airpods with Apple devices). Outside of those situations, it's a random lottery how it'll behave. [[User:PotatoGod|PotatoGod]] ([[User talk:PotatoGod|talk]]) 02:00, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

It's still hit and miss a lot of times, depending on the devices in question. My friend's car has Bluetooth, and when it worked it worked great. But then every once in a while it would stop working, he'd ask me as his tech friend to try to get it working, and I couldn't... and then he had to take it to the car dealership to get it working. [[User:N0lqu|-boB]] ([[User talk:N0lqu|talk]]) 20:45, 6 October 2018 (UTC)

I think the "Josiah" is a reference to "Josiah Wedgwood," a famous English entrepreneur and potter. Should this be added? {{unsigned|172.68.141.4|00:39, 7 October 2018}}

:If you think it is a reference, without more, then no it should not be added. If you want to post here what the reasons are (why do you think so?), then we can evaluate them and recommend. But without more, no. Certainly a casual review of {{w|Josiah Wedgwood}} doesn't give any obvious reasons to connect him with "Josiah Bluetooth." p.s.: please sign your posts (with <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>). [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 02:04, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

Years ago I bought a Linux-compatible USB Bluetooth dongle. It had several pages of detailed and complex instructions for Windows and Mac, indicating the exact order of operations - if one connected the device before installing drivers and rebooting, for instance, one would have to dig deep into the OS and remove various automatically-installed components - but I couldn't find any instructions for Linux. Finally I found them - it was one line, "Plug the dongle in". Worked perfectly.

On the other hand, my very good headphones, which have the wireless connection on the right ear, still lose connection to my laptop if I turn my head to the right... [[User:Cosmogoblin|Cosmogoblin]] ([[User talk:Cosmogoblin|talk]]) 12:00, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

The link between "Josiah" and "Josiah Wedgwood" is probably correct. One of the styles that Josiah Wedgwood is famous for is a blue and white design. A quick Internet search gives lots of examples. This is probably the reason that the ceramic Bluetooth speaker mentioned in the explanation text is named "Josiah". They're both making reference to Josiah Wedgwood and his blue and white pottery.[[User:Hjmillman|Hjmillman]] ([[User talk:Hjmillman|talk]]) 12:29, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

Yes, sorry I didn't mention his pottery style in the original comment. Wedgwood was famous for doing a lot of R&D to develop a style of pottery that replicated Chinese porcelain with blue/white patterns. The 'Josiah' referenced in the comic is probably a reference to Wedgwood. 23:58, 8 October 2018 (UTC) {{unsigned ip|172.68.141.58}}
: I must agree with JohnHawkinson, that doesn't sound like enough of a link. It sounds like stretching a LOT. I feel it actually probably ISN'T a reference to him. Josiah is just a very old fashioned sounding name, sorry. And as John mentioned, please sign your posts with <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>. :) [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 04:07, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

I have great trouble believing the statement that Bluetooth was designed for transfer of information "and audio". I suspect the reality is simply that several audio applications have been found (speakers, headphones, handsfree devices for cars...). The audio is the information in those applications, not that audio transfer was part of the original intent of Bluetooth. [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 04:12, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

:I took a look at [https://grouper.ieee.org/groups/802/15/Bluetooth/core_10_b.pdf the official 1999 Bluetooth 1.0B standard (PDF, 1000+ pages)] which specifies "Bluetooth audio" in the "Baseband Specification". In terms of actual use back then, ''"The first consumer Bluetooth device was launched in 1999. It was a hands-free mobile headset that earned the "Best of show Technology Award" at COMDEX."'' --[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth#History The Other Wiki] - the first product being audio is pretty relevant, right? [More useful history/context https://www.headphonesty.com/2021/01/bluetooth-versions/] noting that BT development "... was initiated by Ericsson Mobile CTO Nils Rydbeck in 1989. The first version was ... (developed by) an engineer ... at the same company." (Being a mobile phone comapny in the 90s, audio was pretty much item #1.[[User:Overand|Overand]] ([[User talk:Overand|talk]]) 17:12, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

I've found it just works on linux, with the exception of a) HFP/HFC, which has poor sound quality, and b) conflicts from the hellscape of the windows bluetooth stack. It's actually why I switched originally, linux has good a2dp sink behavior (can act as headphones and recieve sound from say a phone), windows has none whatsoever. More recently, I decided to use a wii remote as a mouse. The bluetooth connection was already installed and configured, just needed the x driver. Yes. It literally "just works" with f****** WII REMOTES
[[Special:Contributions/172.69.34.170|172.69.34.170]] 06:21, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Noone mentions, that white hat uses brackets while speaking? --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 15:48, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
:Randomly came across this comic today, wondered about this, went to the explain page and saw that I am the one commenting this already years ago :D Still not sure if/how it would fit into the explanation. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 12:26, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Above, people speculated that Josiah Bluetooth owes his existence to Josiah Wedgewood. I personally immediately thought of Jebediah Springfield, another made-up historical figure whose name starts with "J" and ends with "h" and sounds old-timey and Biblical. [[User:Nitpicking|Nitpicking]] ([[User talk:Nitpicking|talk]]) 10:40, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Interesting bluetooth 'problem' encountered a few years back. On a two-hire-car trip across country, which I joined part-way through, it became obvious that people/drivers had swapped cars. When some passengers in one car phoned those in the other (to coordinate who was going ahead/stopping for various reasons) the conversation would be punctuated by the voice of the present person speaking across to the other vehicle suddenly being rebroadcast out of our car's speakers as the other vehicle (and the phone of the recipient of the call) came briefly in range of our own and re-established an original hands-free pairing (wanted or unwanted, but probably tried out deliberately when originally driving the other car. Can't recall a connection-tone, but it was clear what was happening. But not sure I recall if it cut handest audio from the phone involved so that the 'conversation' was now only between our handset and our car-audio... or maybe it was now between ''their'' audio (using our handset) and ''our'' audio (using their handset), crossing between vehicles twice (plus a pair of phone signals to the nearest mast and back). I think some settings were unset at some point, though. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.100|172.70.90.100]] 11:12, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Talk:2809: Moon

2023-08-03T05:01:16Z

Lupo:

Happy birthday to me. This comic is a good birthday present, so I'm gonna try to add some stuff to the explanation now. [[User:R3TRI8UTI0N|R3TRI8UTI0N]] ([[User talk:R3TRI8UTI0N|talk]]) 02:11, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Okay, added a Trivia section and a lot of stuff to the explanation. Request someone help add more information about lunar cycles and some wikipedia links. [[User:R3TRI8UTI0N|R3TRI8UTI0N]] ([[User talk:R3TRI8UTI0N|talk]]) 02:35, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
:Ah, well, I added more (sufficient? ...haven't wikilinked yet) info about the illumination/tide cycles. i.e. about half the time (at least) half reilluminating areas on the night side of Earth + roughly twice a day dragging/flinging the tides 'upwards' (modifying the Sun's own twice-daily effects).
:Had to heavily qualify the secondary Trivia point, for caveats. I mean selenically-specific names aren't rare, when refering to orb sometimes known as Phoebe/Cynthia, until you become more precise about "common English use". Didn't say anything about (the) Earth, but did mention the Sun(/suns in general) in the edit comment. Interesting point to make, but not so much unusual as stemming from long time (way into prehistory!) custom so really being the heavily weighted precedent. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.187|172.70.90.187]] 05:21, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
::...what? I don't understand. [[User:R3TRI8UTI0N|R3TRI8UTI0N]] ([[User talk:R3TRI8UTI0N|talk]]) 05:32, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
:::''"it can also be described by other titles such as "Luna" (directly taken from from Latin mythology/astronomy)."'' It's not true that "the Moon doesn't have a name". It is ''the'' Moon (unlike other moons), plus all kinds of other names (historical, other culture and/or other language; such as Chandra/Igaluk/Chang'e). But it is interesting to note that, until we were able to imagine (and/or see) moons orbiting other things up in the sky, there was ''just'' its proper name. Whatever it might be. Only after we anticipated the existence of satellites of other planets (and, perhaps, other satellites of our own planet), having first recognised what other planets actually were (distinct from stars, with those being other suns than ''our'' Sun/Sol/Ra/...) was it meaningful that the name(s) we did use for it might be re-used to describe the class of things that were like it. But they then really needed their own fresh names/catalogue numbers. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.242.15|172.71.242.15]] 10:11, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
:Reminds me of that conversation from Dragonheart (paraphrized as I only watched the German dub): "So instead of calling me 'dragon" in your language you call me 'dragon' in another language... I think I like it" [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 07:16, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

If there was no Moon, would an Earth astronomer that discovered moons around one of the other planets be considered a loony? [[User:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For|These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For]] ([[User talk:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For|talk]]) 02:40, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
:If there was no moon, it's quite possible there would be no intelligent life on Earth. Also, when Galileo Galilei found Jupiter's moons, he was totally considered loony by some, while others said it's defect of the telescope. Remember that at that point of history, suggesting that if Earth has moon, other planets might have one too was something you could be burned on stake for. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 03:13, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

:Definitely not. (I see what you did there.) --[[Special:Contributions/172.70.247.155|172.70.247.155]] 12:55, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

I doubt the title text is intended as a reference to that saying. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.247.51|172.69.247.51]] 04:17, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
:Yeah, I don't get how that is related either. The title text references that it is pretty, but the nmoves away from that. Not sure how that is related to a quote that doesn't even use the word "pretty". --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 09:28, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
::I mean, the word "beautiful" and "pretty" have common meanings, so I thought about that connection, but if no one else made the connection, so be it. [[User:R3TRI8UTI0N|R3TRI8UTI0N]] ([[User talk:R3TRI8UTI0N|talk]]) 05:30, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
:::I think if that connection was meant to be invoked it would just say beautiful, or get more into detail of the way it is pretty/beautiful. However it was just used as a kind of connector to make the other mentioned aspects seem more minor. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 08:05, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Like many things,{{Citation needed}} it has probably seemed usual whilst we only know our own example. Once we started to find other examples out there, we can discover the ways in which it's an outlier. (Martian: "Well of ''course'' there's those two small rock 'stars' visibly zipping around overhead, that's what the sky alsays looks like for me, and I imagine that it's much the same for anyone else..." Earthling/Venusian/Jovian/Tritonian/Plutoid: "...hold my beer!") [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.133|141.101.99.133]] 07:26, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

I've been saying this about the Sun… A great fireball looming in the sky. It remotely powers life. (Even with 90% of that power lost at each trophic level!) It is worshipped as a god. It controls Earthlings' sense of time. When it leaves the sky at a regular interval, a wave of fear follows, and everything seeks shelter and goes dormant until its return. Oh, but it also burns and mutates the flesh of those who stand in its rays, to the point that it's ''dangerous to look at''. Sounds fake, right? And yet, there it is. [[User talk:AgentMuffin|~AgentMuffin]] 08:00, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

I have a personal theory that the constant gravitational massage is responsible for sustaining the Earth's large magnetic field, thus preventing the solar wind making us like Venus or Mars, and probably keeping the tectonic plates on the move. (Oh and dogs domesticated themselves - just saying p.s. same for cats but only after we had barns). [[User:RIIW - Ponder it|RIIW - Ponder it]] ([[User talk:RIIW - Ponder it|talk]]) 09:38, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

I think we’re well past the point of “plans being made” of humans returning to the Moon. [[User:SilverTheTerribleMathematician|Silver]] ([[User talk:SilverTheTerribleMathematician|talk]]) 19:29, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
:You mean that we are currently building rockets and stuff to send people to the moon at this very moment? [[User:R3TRI8UTI0N|R3TRI8UTI0N]] ([[User talk:R3TRI8UTI0N|talk]]) 05:32, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
::We are. Which I hope you're aware of. But if you weren't... this your [[1053: Ten Thousand|lucky day]]! [[Special:Contributions/172.71.242.15|172.71.242.15]] 10:11, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

August 1, 2023 the moon is a "Super Moon" [[User:KingPenguin|KingPenguin]] ([[User talk:KingPenguin|talk]]) 22:13, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

We need to make a category for these things which would sound outlandish if they didn't exist. [[2115]] is the first one I think of, and I'm sure there's more. I propose we call it Category: Things That Seem Like They Shouldn't Work But Do in honor of [[2540]]. [[User:Take The A Train To Watertown|Take The A Train To Watertown]] ([[User talk:Take The A Train To Watertown|talk]]) 12:20, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
:[[2085]] title text. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 05:01, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

@84596Gamma - yes, really. (But not as much as a spoon.) [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.186|172.71.178.186]] 15:00, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Talk:2809: Moon

2023-08-02T08:05:47Z

Lupo:

Happy birthday to me. This comic is a good birthday present, so I'm gonna try to add some stuff to the explanation now. [[User:R3TRI8UTI0N|R3TRI8UTI0N]] ([[User talk:R3TRI8UTI0N|talk]]) 02:11, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Okay, added a Trivia section and a lot of stuff to the explanation. Request someone help add more information about lunar cycles and some wikipedia links. [[User:R3TRI8UTI0N|R3TRI8UTI0N]] ([[User talk:R3TRI8UTI0N|talk]]) 02:35, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
:Ah, well, I added more (sufficient? ...haven't wikilinked yet) info about the illumination/tide cycles. i.e. about half the time (at least) half reilluminating areas on the night side of Earth + roughly twice a day dragging/flinging the tides 'upwards' (modifying the Sun's own twice-daily effects).
:Had to heavily qualify the secondary Trivia point, for caveats. I mean selenically-specific names aren't rare, when refering to orb sometimes known as Phoebe/Cynthia, until you become more precise about "common English use". Didn't say anything about (the) Earth, but did mention the Sun(/suns in general) in the edit comment. Interesting point to make, but not so much unusual as stemming from long time (way into prehistory!) custom so really being the heavily weighted precedent. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.187|172.70.90.187]] 05:21, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
::...what? I don't understand. [[User:R3TRI8UTI0N|R3TRI8UTI0N]] ([[User talk:R3TRI8UTI0N|talk]]) 05:32, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
:Reminds me of that conversation from Dragonheart (paraphrized as I only watched the German dub): "So instead of calling me 'dragon" in your language you call me 'dragon' in another language... I think I like it" [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 07:16, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

If there was no Moon, would an Earth astronomer that discovered moons around one of the other planets be considered a loony? [[User:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For|These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For]] ([[User talk:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For|talk]]) 02:40, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
:If there was no moon, it's quite possible there would be no intelligent life on Earth. Also, when Galileo Galilei found Jupiter's moons, he was totally considered loony by some, while others said it's defect of the telescope. Remember that at that point of history, suggesting that if Earth has moon, other planets might have one too was something you could be burned on stake for. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 03:13, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

:Definitely not. (I see what you did there.) --[[Special:Contributions/172.70.247.155|172.70.247.155]] 12:55, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

I doubt the title text is intended as a reference to that saying. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.247.51|172.69.247.51]] 04:17, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
:Yeah, I don't get how that is related either. The title text references that it is pretty, but the nmoves away from that. Not sure how that is related to a quote that doesn't even use the word "pretty". --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 09:28, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
::I mean, the word "beautiful" and "pretty" have common meanings, so I thought about that connection, but if no one else made the connection, so be it. [[User:R3TRI8UTI0N|R3TRI8UTI0N]] ([[User talk:R3TRI8UTI0N|talk]]) 05:30, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
:::I think if that connection was meant to be invoked it would just say beautiful, or get more into detail of the way it is pretty/beautiful. However it was just used as a kind of connector to make the other mentioned aspects seem more minor. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 08:05, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Like many things,{{Citation needed}} it has probably seemed usual whilst we only know our own example. Once we started to find other examples out there, we can discover the ways in which it's an outlier. (Martian: "Well of ''course'' there's those two small rock 'stars' visibly zipping around overhead, that's what the sky alsays looks like for me, and I imagine that it's much the same for anyone else..." Earthling/Venusian/Jovian/Tritonian/Plutoid: "...hold my beer!") [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.133|141.101.99.133]] 07:26, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

I've been saying this about the Sun… A great fireball looming in the sky. It remotely powers life. (Even with 90% of that power lost at each trophic level!) It is worshipped as a god. It controls Earthlings' sense of time. When it leaves the sky at a regular interval, a wave of fear follows, and everything seeks shelter and goes dormant until its return. Oh, but it also burns and mutates the flesh of those who stand in its rays, to the point that it's ''dangerous to look at''. Sounds fake, right? And yet, there it is. [[User talk:AgentMuffin|~AgentMuffin]] 08:00, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

I have a personal theory that the constant gravitational massage is responsible for sustaining the Earth's large magnetic field, thus preventing the solar wind making us like Venus or Mars, and probably keeping the tectonic plates on the move. (Oh and dogs domesticated themselves - just saying p.s. same for cats but only after we had barns). [[User:RIIW - Ponder it|RIIW - Ponder it]] ([[User talk:RIIW - Ponder it|talk]]) 09:38, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

I think we’re well past the point of “plans being made” of humans returning to the Moon. [[User:SilverTheTerribleMathematician|Silver]] ([[User talk:SilverTheTerribleMathematician|talk]]) 19:29, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
:You mean that we are currently building rockets and stuff to send people to the moon at this very moment? [[User:R3TRI8UTI0N|R3TRI8UTI0N]] ([[User talk:R3TRI8UTI0N|talk]]) 05:32, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

August 1, 2023 the moon is a "Super Moon" [[User:KingPenguin|KingPenguin]] ([[User talk:KingPenguin|talk]]) 22:13, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

2809: Moon

2023-08-01T09:32:13Z

Lupo: /* Explanation */ removed irrelevant phrase-explanation about moon being beautiful, and slightly reworded explanation of title text.

{{comic
| number = 2809
| date = July 31, 2023
| title = Moon
| image = moon_2x.png
| imagesize = 313x402px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = I mean, it's pretty, but it doesn't really affect us beyond that. Except that half the nights aren't really dark, and once or twice a day it makes the oceans flood the coasts.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a STRANGE ORB FLOATING IN THE SKY. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

The {{w|Moon}} is a celestial body orbiting Earth first formed approximately 4.5 billion years ago, about 50 million years after the initial formation of the solar system. As of July 31, 2023, the Moon is still orbiting the Earth{{Citation needed}} at a distance of 384,400 kilometers, or 238,900 miles.

This comic points out how weird it is to have such an enormous celestial body near to us. The second nearest, Venus, is approximately 46.576 million kilometers away at its closest. The Moon is close enough that we can see the craters and other stuff on the surface with our naked eye, though a telescope would help.

There are other planets with moons,{{Citation needed}} but Earth's moon is very big compared to Earth - Mars's moons are way smaller and the biggest moon in our solar system, Ganymede, is just twice as massive with 1.5 the radius despite orbiting Jupiter, which is 317x more massive than Earth with 11x bigger radius.

In human history, we have landed twelve people on the moon in the Apollo missions from 1969 to 1972. Despite advancements in technology since then,{{Citation needed}} we have yet to land another person on the Moon, though plans are being made.

The title text refers to two facts how the moon majorly impacts life on earth, which also would seem strange if it wasn't real: Firstly the lunar cycle, in which the Moon's orbit is roughly half the time on the opposite side of the Earth from the Sun and (being visibly at least half illuminated, whilst there, except briefly during rare eclipses) provides a low but significant amount of reflected illumination that nature (as well as humanity) has found a nocturnal use for. Secondly, the title text also refers to the tides, a very nearly twice-daily cycle where the Moon's gravity (modified by the Sun's) subtly pulls upon the Earth and dragging the waters of the seas and oceans around to periodically increasing the sea levels in most places.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
:[Ponytail points to something in the sky, presumably the moon. Cueball stands nearby.]
:Ponytail: That thing hanging in the sky is a second nearby world. It's close enough that you can see its surface as it passes overhead.
:Cueball: Wow. Isn't that... weird?
:Ponytail: I dunno, it's just always been there.

:[Caption below the panel:]
:If it didn't exist, the moon would sound like such an outlandish sci-fi concept.

==Trivia==
Earth's moon is weird for an additional two reasons. First, it is by far the largest and most massive moon relative to the planet it orbits. Secondly, our moon is the only moon in the solar system to not have a proper name, not even a jumble of letters and numbers. In English it is simply given the proper name of "the Moon" (capitalized), being the ancient archetype for all other moons discovered since the time of Galileo, although it can also be described by other titles such as "Luna" (directly taken from from Latin mythology/astronomy).

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Astronomy]]

2809: Moon

2023-08-01T09:29:43Z

Lupo: moved trivia below transcript.

{{comic
| number = 2809
| date = July 31, 2023
| title = Moon
| image = moon_2x.png
| imagesize = 313x402px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = I mean, it's pretty, but it doesn't really affect us beyond that. Except that half the nights aren't really dark, and once or twice a day it makes the oceans flood the coasts.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a STRANGE ORB FLOATING IN THE SKY. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

The {{w|Moon}} is a celestial body orbiting Earth first formed approximately 4.5 billion years ago, about 50 million years after the initial formation of the solar system. As of July 31, 2023, the Moon is still orbiting the Earth{{Citation needed}} at a distance of 384,400 kilometers, or 238,900 miles.

This comic points out how weird it is to have such an enormous celestial body near to us. The second nearest, Venus, is approximately 46.576 million kilometers away at its closest. The Moon is close enough that we can see the craters and other stuff on the surface with our naked eye, though a telescope would help.

There are other planets with moons,{{Citation needed}} but Earth's moon is very big compared to Earth - Mars's moons are way smaller and the biggest moon in our solar system, Ganymede, is just twice as massive with 1.5 the radius despite orbiting Jupiter, which is 317x more massive than Earth with 11x bigger radius.

In human history, we have landed twelve people on the moon in the Apollo missions from 1969 to 1972. Despite advancements in technology since then,{{Citation needed}} we have yet to land another person on the Moon, though plans are being made.

The title text may refer to the saying "The Moon is beautiful, isn't it?" which is a way of saying, "I love you," which originated from the Japanese novelist Natsume Soseki overhearing a student of his awkwardly translating the phrase. More information can be obtained by googling the term or directly from [https://www.wikihow.com/The-Moon-Is-Beautiful-Isn%27t-It wikihow]. The title text also refers to the lunar cycle, in which the Moon's orbit is roughly half the time on the opposite side of the Earth from the Sun and (being visibly at least half illuminated, whilst there, except briefly during rare eclipses) provides a low but significant amount of reflected illumination that nature (as well as humanity) has found a nocturnal use for. Lastly, the title text also refers to the tides, a very nearly twice-daily cycle where the Moon's gravity (modified by the Sun's) subtly pulls upon the Earth and dragging the waters of the seas and oceans around to periodically increasing the sea levels in most places.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
:[Ponytail points to something in the sky, presumably the moon. Cueball stands nearby.]
:Ponytail: That thing hanging in the sky is a second nearby world. It's close enough that you can see its surface as it passes overhead.
:Cueball: Wow. Isn't that... weird?
:Ponytail: I dunno, it's just always been there.

:[Caption below the panel:]
:If it didn't exist, the moon would sound like such an outlandish sci-fi concept.

==Trivia==
Earth's moon is weird for an additional two reasons. First, it is by far the largest and most massive moon relative to the planet it orbits. Secondly, our moon is the only moon in the solar system to not have a proper name, not even a jumble of letters and numbers. In English it is simply given the proper name of "the Moon" (capitalized), being the ancient archetype for all other moons discovered since the time of Galileo, although it can also be described by other titles such as "Luna" (directly taken from from Latin mythology/astronomy).

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Astronomy]]

Talk:2809: Moon

2023-08-01T09:28:07Z

Lupo:

Talk:2779: Exoplanet High-5

2023-05-23T11:50:22Z

Lupo:

… too slow ;)

"I don't get it. What's updog?"[[Special:Contributions/172.71.151.35|172.71.151.35]] 03:50, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
:Not much, you? --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 11:50, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

isn't it usually spelled "high-five" --[[Special:Contributions/172.70.114.2|172.70.114.2]] 03:53, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
: Yeah - I don't understand what any of this has to do with sports nutrition.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.32|172.70.86.32]] 08:37, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Izun tittus ually spelt hi-5 ? [[Special:Contributions/172.71.118.98|172.71.118.98]] 06:24, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Considering how fond Randall is of portmanteaus, I'm surprised he didn't use the term WiFive. [[User:Villemoes|Villemoes]] ([[User talk:Villemoes|talk]]) 06:58, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

No reference to Up-Goer 5? Sad :( [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 08:31, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Clearly the aliens were upset that Randall did it wrong by missing out the line 'On the side' between 'Down low' and 'Too slow!'[[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.79|172.70.91.79]] 08:41, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

The explanation states that “It is not known at which speed the Centaurians' invasion fleet travels and, therefore, when it will reach Earth.” It should be clarified that their speed is not known to earthlings (yet). The Centaurians most probably do know their own speed. [[User:Jacobus-nl|Jacobus-nl]] ([[User talk:Jacobus-nl|talk]]) 10:51, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
:Your own speed is always zero, of course. ;) Everything else outside your own current frame of reference will have a speed. Or, better, velocity! [[Special:Contributions/172.71.242.109|172.71.242.109]] 11:32, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Talk:2763: Linguistics Gossip

2023-04-14T16:05:53Z

Lupo:

Added initial explanation [[User:Bamboo|Bamboo]] ([[User talk:Bamboo|talk]]) 14:08, 14 April 2023 (UTC)Bamboo

Added possible explanation of title text [[User:Bamboo|Bamboo]] ([[User talk:Bamboo|talk]]) 14:14, 14 April 2023 (UTC)Bamboo

Has anyone asked O what they think of all this?[[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.152|172.70.91.152]] 14:32, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

NOTE: I'm assuming the IE/VE ligature is IE, where the I is tilted
Could this also be a reference to the historical Latin pronunciation of Æ, and its separation into "AA" (which could be represented by "ar" in English ("r" is silent), hence the ligature "AR") and "IE" (which would be pronounced "ee" as in "relieve") [[User:1844161|1844161]] ([[User talk:1844161|talk]]) 15:21, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
: I disagree. The title text strongly points towards VE as the logical interpretation [[User:Boatster|Boatster]] ([[User talk:Boatster|talk]]) 15:52, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

I think it might be helpful to readers to provide a parenthetical describing the pronunciation of the 'ash' glyph, so that people who aren't old language aficionados aren't left in the lurch if they're the sort who read aloud in their head. I'm going to add it, but if someone removes it I won't be miffed. Also, there's no way the new E ligature is meant to be IE. The title text only makes sense if it's VE.[[Special:Contributions/172.69.67.136|172.69.67.136]] 15:56, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

I hope AR wedding hat a pirate theme. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 16:05, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Talk:2741: Wish Interpretation

2023-02-23T13:13:27Z

Lupo: just bullshitting around

To all you people reading the discussion, why can't I add my own person page? I mean, is a year too new? I think I know, [[User:No Idea If There's A Character Limit LMAO|(but I'm not completely sure.)]] ([[User talk:No Idea If There's A Character Limit LMAO|talk]]) 23:29, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

:Oh, you have to have an old enough account to make one? I had been wondering how to. [[User:Thexkcdnerd|Thexkcdnerd]] ([[User talk:Thexkcdnerd|talk]]) 00:02, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

Ironically, a banknote created by a genie would be counterfeit, although the odds of legal trouble over $20 are nonetheless low. 23:43, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
:It doesn't have to be. The genie could take one away from someone, or just get one that's been lost. Also, the sentence for counterfeiting is the same regardless of the denomination. [[User:SDSpivey|SDSpivey]] ([[User talk:SDSpivey|talk]]) 00:31, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
:The sentence for counterfeiting may be the same but the probability someone would actually go through the trouble of prosecuting you for $20 is much less than say $10,000 [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.151|172.70.214.151]] 03:04, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
::The US Treasury Dept. prosecutes every case it can prove. [[User:SDSpivey|SDSpivey]] ([[User talk:SDSpivey|talk]]) 04:06, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
:::So 2 things: First of all they need to prove it. For that someone has to notice. Not every 20-Dollar-note will be scanned, and I guess the genie could make a pretty good copy (if he needs to copy it). Also noone said US-Dollar. The Genie could make a twist and use one of over 20 other currencies called dollar. Not sure if US Treasury Dept. would be interested in that :D by the way, the eastern caribean dollar has the short "XCD" - does anyone think that a thousand of those would be labeled XkCD? --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 13:13, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

That's cool. Try https://what-if.xkcd.com/23/. Part 1. I need a new signature. [[User:No Idea If There's A Character Limit LMAO|(but I'm not completely sure.)]] ([[User talk:No Idea If There's A Character Limit LMAO|talk]]) 23:46, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

I would (as the genie) just teleport Black Hat to the desert. No other trickery or devastation needed. [[User:SDSpivey|SDSpivey]] ([[User talk:SDSpivey|talk]]) 00:34, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

The oldest "Wish that I wish I didn't wish" I am personally aware of is Midas turning everything he touched into gold, including the food he tried to eat and his beloved daughter. Personally, I'd wish that the genie teach me a lesson. [[User:Nitpicking|Nitpicking]] ([[User talk:Nitpicking|talk]]) 03:16, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

It's kinda funny how a citation is needed for claiming that wishing rain doesn't exist is bad because Randall will just cover it in "What If 3" 20:59, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
:He already replaced the rain with candy in What If 2. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.129.151|162.158.129.151]] 07:28, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

The proper way of teaching Black Hat a lesson would be twisting his wish to make it beneficial to humanity. [[User:Tkopec|Tkopec]] ([[User talk:Tkopec|talk]]) 08:20, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

"And I want you to put it in my house."
[POOF!]
"Here, I turned your house into a Klein bottle."
[[Special:Contributions/172.71.160.39|172.71.160.39]] 08:25, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

Talk:2697: Y2K and 2038

2022-11-12T15:18:27Z

Lupo:

Y2K issues solved back in 1996. Even wrote a letter to the Board of Trustees.
2038 Problems are not-my-concern. Retired 9/30/2022.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.110.236|172.70.110.236]]
:Many of the people who helped solve the Y2K problem were pulled out of retirement. Lots of the issues were in old COBOL software, and there weren't enough active programmers who were competent in COBOL. So keep your resume ready. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 20:07, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

this is so weird I just finished a research assignment on the Y2038 problem [[Special:Contributions/172.71.166.223|172.71.166.223]] 18:27, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

Somewhere there is an essay about the unexpected synergy between the Y2K bug and the burgeoning open source movement, which may or may not be useful for the explanation. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.243|172.70.214.243]] 20:18, 11 November 2022 (UTC)
:https://www.livehistoryindia.com/story/eras/india-software-revolution-rooted-in-y2k is a fascinating essay too. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.151|172.70.214.151]] 21:03, 11 November 2022 (UTC)
:I wouldn't be surprised if there's such an essay, but I suspect it's more of a coincidence. The late 90's was also when the Internet was really taking off, and that may be more of a contributor. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 23:04, 11 November 2022 (UTC)
::All involved what epidemiologists call coordinated or mutually reinforcing causes, IMHO. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.158.231|172.71.158.231]] 01:41, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

Speaking of which, what comes after Generation Z? Generation AA? ZA? Z.1? Help! [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.243|172.70.214.243]] 07:24, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
:{{w|Generation Alpha}} [[Special:Contributions/172.69.34.53|172.69.34.53]] 07:27, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
::[[1962|Zuckerbergs Army.]] --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 15:18, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

I've been unable to confirm this so I'm moving it here: A major problem had struck IBM mainframes on and after August 16, 1972 (9999 days before January 1, 2000) that caused magnetic tapes that were supposed to be marked "keep forever" instead be marked "may be recycled now."{{Actual citation needed}} [[Special:Contributions/172.71.158.231|172.71.158.231]] 07:37, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

Does the arrow move over time? ... should it? (I think so!) It could be done server side and only regulars would [see, sic] that it changes over time. Then... perhaps we could see different versions of the strip cached on the Internet. --[[Special:Contributions/172.71.166.158|172.71.166.158]] 08:30, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
It isn't, of course, but if it was a .GIF with ultralong replace-cycles then only those who ''kept the image active'' would see the arrow move in real-time. (It would reset to ''now's'' "now" upon each (re)loading, so it would have an even more exclusive audience, aside from those that cheat with image(-layer) editing. ;) ) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.57|172.70.162.57]] 13:32, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

Should we mention anything about that it is that specific year in a specific calendar? As far as I know there was also {{w|Japanese_calendar_era_bug|fear of a similiar bug in Japan}} recently. However Wikipedia seems not to be up to date about it. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 15:18, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

Talk:2696: Precision vs Accuracy

2022-11-11T14:10:50Z

Lupo:

87.532% of all statistics are just made up. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.178.220|172.70.178.220]] 11:10, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

Why is 'Barack Obama is 6'1"' and 'Barack Obama has 4 legs' medium precision? It seems to give exact value, so high precision. [[User:Tkopec|Tkopec]] ([[User talk:Tkopec|talk]]) 11:44, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
: OK, I get it. 6'1" means something between 6'0.50" and 6'1.49". For height it's OK, but when counting legs, it seems like a stretch. [[User:Tkopec|Tkopec]] ([[User talk:Tkopec|talk]]) 12:30, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
:: The four legs are probably considered to be only medium precise, not because of the number but because of the imprecise term "leg". While humans can walk on all four extremities, thereby using them as legs, the upper two are commonly referred to as arms. [[User:Bischoff|Bischoff]] ([[User talk:Bischoff|talk]]) 14:54, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
:: (ECed by Bischoff) Plus a person's height (excluding differences to footwear and perhaps hairstyle) varies by an inch or so over the course of a day, as the spine compresses whilst mostly upright (would depend a bit upon your daily activities, but "an inch" or 2-3cm is the typical quoted value, with all the questions about precision ''as well as'' accuracy). Within an inch of such a foot-and-inch value is basically between slightly over a percentage point of drift across a continuum of ultimately non-integer values.
:: The number of legs is ''generally'' a whole number (perhaps lower-limb amputees could claim "half a leg", but is that for above the knee or below or... that's beyond my wish to define, I would leave it up to the individual amputee to finesse to their own liking) and assigning decimals, even .000(recurring), would be ''over-''precise. A definite plain figure (however inaccurate) being the happy and acceptable medium between that and the vague imprecision (never mind inaccuracy) of the kind in the cell below. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.137|172.71.178.137]] 15:00, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
:::The medium is because it says most, and not all! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:08, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
::::It says "most cats", indeed, but the above was about Obama, singular. Though I think it's covered anyway... [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.25|172.70.85.25]] 09:44, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
:::::All the statements about 'Barack Obama' ought to be medium precision at best, because there could be more than one Barack Obama, and it doesn't give any further contextualisation to identify, for example 'the Barack Obama who was president of the United States of America'. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.107.157|141.101.107.157]] 09:29, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

Someone should add an explanation of the difference between precision and accuracy. [[User:Nutster|Nutster]] ([[User talk:Nutster|talk]]) 13:13, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
:Tried it myself. Maybe made it too compact, but I often go on too long so I tried made it as brief and snappy as I felt I could. Over to other editors to rewrite or replace. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.137|172.71.178.137]] 15:00, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
::That there is confusion over this was a bit of a surprise to me, about 20 years ago, when I worked (as I did for many years) in the outdoor pursuits trade. GPS units would give a 12-character grid reference (1m2), but couldn't be relied upon to that level. I would tell people they're more precise than they are accurate, until it became apparent that they were waiting for me to complete the joke they thought I'd begun, as I was so clearly contradicting myself, what with the two words meaning identical things.
::Having gone on to explain the difference between the words, the neat brevity I'd sought was lost.
::Obviously they can be used sort of interchangeably in casual conversation, but I thought the difference was well enough known that, when talking about a navigational instrument, it would be obvious what was meant.
::Nope. [[User:Yorkshire Pudding|Yorkshire Pudding]] ([[User talk:Yorkshire Pudding|talk]]) 20:18, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
:::I deal with OS Grid References a lot, in a similar context, and a number of people who give 10-digits or more (2x5, for 1m res) from devices that typically don't ever settle down to less than 3m, and provably can be tens of metres off if there happens to be a small tree or shrub nearby.
:::(In fact, the other day I was geohashing myself, and my device was insisting I was in a totally different bit of the open field, 50m or so, no matter how much I sat it down at the provably correct point and wandered away so that even ''I'' wasn't obscuring its view of the sky. But it was good enough for me, which was all I do it for, so after giving it 5 minutes I counted it as done.)
:::And, in yet another activity, the publicised information for an event included a 12ish-DP reference for the starting area (vaguer than that), but just the ''postcode'' for the HQ (a very definite building that you could bullseye on a map), in a rural area where it covered half the valley! [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.12|172.70.86.12]] 22:19, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

How is 17.082 palindromic? [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 14:54, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
:My error, I meant an anagram! (Was going for "anagramic", and my brain clearly rebelled.) [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.137|172.71.178.137]] 15:00, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

High Precision High accuracy, Randall Munroe misses when Obama was president. Low precision Medium-rare accuracy, so do we, Randall, so do we. {{unsigned ip|172.70.130.154 }}

It is so annoying that the US uses . and , to mean the opposite of what most European countries (including Denmark where I live). So when I read this it states that Obama was president less than 3 days (70 hours) but it more than 70000 feet tall. :-) Of course I now the difference but I have to think about it more than if everyone used the same standard. Also height should use SI units as everyone should ;-) (weight given in number of cats is the new SI unit as far as I know, but don't use inches and feet ;-D ) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:17, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
:Well, as a UKian, I was happy enough. Tell you what, though, let's develop a [[927: Standards|new and mutually-acceptable standard notation]]... ;) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.25|172.70.85.25]] 09:44, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
::Good idea. Lets meet on [[2562|11/12/22]] to discuss the details. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 13:41, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

I think Randall missed an opportunity to clarify how high precision can make something inaccurate. He could have said that Obama is 6’ 1.02173” tall, which would clearly be very precise, and also clearly inaccurate, simply because of the excessive precision. [[User:John|John]] ([[User talk:John|talk]]) 15:22, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
:Saying 6'1.0278 would have been more in theme, there. And it would be not really more inaccurate (might even be closer to the truth...) but would convey a false precision.
:Interstingly, when Andrew Waugh measured Mount Everest (before it was so named) he got a diffraction-adjusted figure of 29,000 feet, but decided to announced that it was 29,002 so that it didn't just like a rough figure rounded to the nearest hundred or even thousand feet. This made him the first person to put two feet on the top of Everest!
:(...The actual error was not bad, given his measurements had to be made from hundreds of miles away. Current official measurements with on-the-spot modern GPS say 29,031.7 feet (for the snow-peak, which is all that Waugh could mention), after 170ish years of (by some estimates, but contested) about a foot of extra height per decade through the continuing techtonic raising of the Himalaya. And any unknown differences in snow-depth. Certainly it was within tens of feet, i.e. a dozen or so metres. With a bit of an error-bar, but not really that big when you consider it...)
: So, arguably, that case was a deliberately false accuracy to help convey the true precision. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.3|172.70.90.3]] 16:15, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
:I don't get your point? Unless you just made up everything after the decimal point: How would it be less acurate? --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 09:37, 11 November 2022 (UTC)
::The only thing I can imagine is, that these kinds of numbers happen due to conversions. E.g. 6ft1in would be 185.42cm (according to the first calculator I found), but it is unlikely that 6ft1in was as precise as a cm-value with 2 digits after the decimal point would be. And in the other direction 185cm (which would be the usual precision of a height in m or cm - while 186cm could still be correct as it would be 6ft1in in the "usual precision") would calculate as 6ft and 0.83in --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 10:18, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

I'm not sure the current explanation's claim that 'being too precise usually decreases accuracy' is, er, accurate (or perhaps it's just imprecise). It might be reasonable to claim that increasing precision tends to decrease accuracy relative to the level of precision, but not so much in absolute terms, or even necessarily relative to the size of the thing being measured.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.107.156|141.101.107.156]] 09:38, 11 November 2022 (UTC)
:I think it's badly phrased. The assumed accuracy can be degraded and disadvantageous.
:For example, to use someone's figures from just above, looking for an individual with a height of 185.42cm might seem to rule out the one that you find is 185.57cm tall, though they are indeed the one initially measured/estimated at 6'1" and would definitely be within an inch or so in this latest attempt to match them.
:An old phrase that I grew up with is "don't try to be accurate over inaccurate details" (courtesy of a chemistry teacher, where we frequently used mmol-like measurements in analyses like titrations). The number of articles that say "the probe flew past the asteroid at a distance of about 20 miles (32.187 kilometres) ...", where clearly the accuracy is misleading, especially if the conversion ends up being back-converted by someone else with no idea ("...which is 20.0000746 miles"), and may have come from an ''original'' figure actually deliberately pegged at 35km (21.748 miles!), within a few metres or less.
:Really, you should be taking the level of precision/accuracy inherent in the initial values, preserving the awkward fractions throughout the intermediate steps ''and'' converting the inherent ranges by the same process then clearly presenting the final figure to no more exactitude than the initial smudge of "all actual values that would be given by this type of input value", and maybe less. The write-up might be then be realistically "...of around 21¾ miles (35km)", if using a better primary source, or "20 miles (~30km)" in a case of the detail already being likely lost by intermediate chinese-whispers.
:But this is what confuses people. And how even those that are not confused can confuse others... [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.10|172.70.86.10]] 12:16, 11 November 2022 (UTC)
::It gets even better when different units also use different 0s. So for a persons height we can assume that as 0ft0in and 0cm is the same, 185cm is one order of magnitude more precise than 6ft1in, as it is 3 significant digits vs 2 at the same height. However a persons body temperature in 38°C with 2 significant digits and 311K with 3 is the same level of precision and only .15°C (Or .15K) apart, while 100°F (37.77...°C) is also very close but a bit more precise. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 14:10, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

I was expecting maybe a reference to Schrödinger's President when I first read the comic - but later realized that this could have been misconstrued as a threat. Oops!

Talk:2696: Precision vs Accuracy

2022-11-11T10:18:18Z

Lupo:

87.532% of all statistics are just made up. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.178.220|172.70.178.220]] 11:10, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

Why is 'Barack Obama is 6'1"' and 'Barack Obama has 4 legs' medium precision? It seems to give exact value, so high precision. [[User:Tkopec|Tkopec]] ([[User talk:Tkopec|talk]]) 11:44, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
: OK, I get it. 6'1" means something between 6'0.50" and 6'1.49". For height it's OK, but when counting legs, it seems like a stretch. [[User:Tkopec|Tkopec]] ([[User talk:Tkopec|talk]]) 12:30, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
:: The four legs are probably considered to be only medium precise, not because of the number but because of the imprecise term "leg". While humans can walk on all four extremities, thereby using them as legs, the upper two are commonly referred to as arms. [[User:Bischoff|Bischoff]] ([[User talk:Bischoff|talk]]) 14:54, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
:: (ECed by Bischoff) Plus a person's height (excluding differences to footwear and perhaps hairstyle) varies by an inch or so over the course of a day, as the spine compresses whilst mostly upright (would depend a bit upon your daily activities, but "an inch" or 2-3cm is the typical quoted value, with all the questions about precision ''as well as'' accuracy). Within an inch of such a foot-and-inch value is basically between slightly over a percentage point of drift across a continuum of ultimately non-integer values.
:: The number of legs is ''generally'' a whole number (perhaps lower-limb amputees could claim "half a leg", but is that for above the knee or below or... that's beyond my wish to define, I would leave it up to the individual amputee to finesse to their own liking) and assigning decimals, even .000(recurring), would be ''over-''precise. A definite plain figure (however inaccurate) being the happy and acceptable medium between that and the vague imprecision (never mind inaccuracy) of the kind in the cell below. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.137|172.71.178.137]] 15:00, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
:::The medium is because it says most, and not all! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:08, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
::::It says "most cats", indeed, but the above was about Obama, singular. Though I think it's covered anyway... [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.25|172.70.85.25]] 09:44, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
:::::All the statements about 'Barack Obama' ought to be medium precision at best, because there could be more than one Barack Obama, and it doesn't give any further contextualisation to identify, for example 'the Barack Obama who was president of the United States of America'. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.107.157|141.101.107.157]] 09:29, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

Someone should add an explanation of the difference between precision and accuracy. [[User:Nutster|Nutster]] ([[User talk:Nutster|talk]]) 13:13, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
:Tried it myself. Maybe made it too compact, but I often go on too long so I tried made it as brief and snappy as I felt I could. Over to other editors to rewrite or replace. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.137|172.71.178.137]] 15:00, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
::That there is confusion over this was a bit of a surprise to me, about 20 years ago, when I worked (as I did for many years) in the outdoor pursuits trade. GPS units would give a 12-character grid reference (1m2), but couldn't be relied upon to that level. I would tell people they're more precise than they are accurate, until it became apparent that they were waiting for me to complete the joke they thought I'd begun, as I was so clearly contradicting myself, what with the two words meaning identical things.
::Having gone on to explain the difference between the words, the neat brevity I'd sought was lost.
::Obviously they can be used sort of interchangeably in casual conversation, but I thought the difference was well enough known that, when talking about a navigational instrument, it would be obvious what was meant.
::Nope. [[User:Yorkshire Pudding|Yorkshire Pudding]] ([[User talk:Yorkshire Pudding|talk]]) 20:18, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
:::I deal with OS Grid References a lot, in a similar context, and a number of people who give 10-digits or more (2x5, for 1m res) from devices that typically don't ever settle down to less than 3m, and provably can be tens of metres off if there happens to be a small tree or shrub nearby.
:::(In fact, the other day I was geohashing myself, and my device was insisting I was in a totally different bit of the open field, 50m or so, no matter how much I sat it down at the provably correct point and wandered away so that even ''I'' wasn't obscuring its view of the sky. But it was good enough for me, which was all I do it for, so after giving it 5 minutes I counted it as done.)
:::And, in yet another activity, the publicised information for an event included a 12ish-DP reference for the starting area (vaguer than that), but just the ''postcode'' for the HQ (a very definite building that you could bullseye on a map), in a rural area where it covered half the valley! [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.12|172.70.86.12]] 22:19, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

How is 17.082 palindromic? [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 14:54, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
:My error, I meant an anagram! (Was going for "anagramic", and my brain clearly rebelled.) [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.137|172.71.178.137]] 15:00, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

High Precision High accuracy, Randall Munroe misses when Obama was president. Low precision Medium-rare accuracy, so do we, Randall, so do we. {{unsigned ip|172.70.130.154 }}

It is so annoying that the US uses . and , to mean the opposite of what most European countries (including Denmark where I live). So when I read this it states that Obama was president less than 3 days (70 hours) but it more than 70000 feet tall. :-) Of course I now the difference but I have to think about it more than if everyone used the same standard. Also height should use SI units as everyone should ;-) (weight given in number of cats is the new SI unit as far as I know, but don't use inches and feet ;-D ) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:17, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
:Well, as a UKian, I was happy enough. Tell you what, though, let's develop a [[927: Standards|new and mutually-acceptable standard notation]]... ;) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.25|172.70.85.25]] 09:44, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
::Good idea. Lets meet on [[2562|11/12/22]] to discuss the details. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 13:41, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

I think Randall missed an opportunity to clarify how high precision can make something inaccurate. He could have said that Obama is 6’ 1.02173” tall, which would clearly be very precise, and also clearly inaccurate, simply because of the excessive precision. [[User:John|John]] ([[User talk:John|talk]]) 15:22, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
:Saying 6'1.0278 would have been more in theme, there. And it would be not really more inaccurate (might even be closer to the truth...) but would convey a false precision.
:Interstingly, when Andrew Waugh measured Mount Everest (before it was so named) he got a diffraction-adjusted figure of 29,000 feet, but decided to announced that it was 29,002 so that it didn't just like a rough figure rounded to the nearest hundred or even thousand feet. This made him the first person to put two feet on the top of Everest!
:(...The actual error was not bad, given his measurements had to be made from hundreds of miles away. Current official measurements with on-the-spot modern GPS say 29,031.7 feet (for the snow-peak, which is all that Waugh could mention), after 170ish years of (by some estimates, but contested) about a foot of extra height per decade through the continuing techtonic raising of the Himalaya. And any unknown differences in snow-depth. Certainly it was within tens of feet, i.e. a dozen or so metres. With a bit of an error-bar, but not really that big when you consider it...)
: So, arguably, that case was a deliberately false accuracy to help convey the true precision. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.3|172.70.90.3]] 16:15, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
:I don't get your point? Unless you just made up everything after the decimal point: How would it be less acurate? --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 09:37, 11 November 2022 (UTC)
::The only thing I can imagine is, that these kinds of numbers happen due to conversions. E.g. 6ft1in would be 185.42cm (according to the first calculator I found), but it is unlikely that 6ft1in was as precise as a cm-value with 2 digits after the decimal point would be. And in the other direction 185cm (which would be the usual precision of a height in m or cm - while 186cm could still be correct as it would be 6ft1in in the "usual precision") would calculate as 6ft and 0.83in --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 10:18, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

I'm not sure the current explanation's claim that 'being too precise usually decreases accuracy' is, er, accurate (or perhaps it's just imprecise). It might be reasonable to claim that increasing precision tends to decrease accuracy relative to the level of precision, but not so much in absolute terms, or even necessarily relative to the size of the thing being measured.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.107.156|141.101.107.156]] 09:38, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

I was expecting maybe a reference to Schrödinger's President when I first read the comic - but later realized that this could have been misconstrued as a threat. Oops!

Talk:2696: Precision vs Accuracy

2022-11-11T09:37:33Z

Lupo:

87.532% of all statistics are just made up. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.178.220|172.70.178.220]] 11:10, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

Why is 'Barack Obama is 6'1"' and 'Barack Obama has 4 legs' medium precision? It seems to give exact value, so high precision. [[User:Tkopec|Tkopec]] ([[User talk:Tkopec|talk]]) 11:44, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
: OK, I get it. 6'1" means something between 6'0.50" and 6'1.49". For height it's OK, but when counting legs, it seems like a stretch. [[User:Tkopec|Tkopec]] ([[User talk:Tkopec|talk]]) 12:30, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
:: The four legs are probably considered to be only medium precise, not because of the number but because of the imprecise term "leg". While humans can walk on all four extremities, thereby using them as legs, the upper two are commonly referred to as arms. [[User:Bischoff|Bischoff]] ([[User talk:Bischoff|talk]]) 14:54, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
:: (ECed by Bischoff) Plus a person's height (excluding differences to footwear and perhaps hairstyle) varies by an inch or so over the course of a day, as the spine compresses whilst mostly upright (would depend a bit upon your daily activities, but "an inch" or 2-3cm is the typical quoted value, with all the questions about precision ''as well as'' accuracy). Within an inch of such a foot-and-inch value is basically between slightly over a percentage point of drift across a continuum of ultimately non-integer values.
:: The number of legs is ''generally'' a whole number (perhaps lower-limb amputees could claim "half a leg", but is that for above the knee or below or... that's beyond my wish to define, I would leave it up to the individual amputee to finesse to their own liking) and assigning decimals, even .000(recurring), would be ''over-''precise. A definite plain figure (however inaccurate) being the happy and acceptable medium between that and the vague imprecision (never mind inaccuracy) of the kind in the cell below. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.137|172.71.178.137]] 15:00, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
:::The medium is because it says most, and not all! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:08, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
::::It says "most cats", indeed, but the above was about Obama, singular. Though I think it's covered anyway... [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.25|172.70.85.25]] 09:44, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
:::::All the statements about 'Barack Obama' ought to be medium precision at best, because there could be more than one Barack Obama, and it doesn't give any further contextualisation to identify, for example 'the Barack Obama who was president of the United States of America'. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.107.157|141.101.107.157]] 09:29, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

Someone should add an explanation of the difference between precision and accuracy. [[User:Nutster|Nutster]] ([[User talk:Nutster|talk]]) 13:13, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
:Tried it myself. Maybe made it too compact, but I often go on too long so I tried made it as brief and snappy as I felt I could. Over to other editors to rewrite or replace. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.137|172.71.178.137]] 15:00, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
::That there is confusion over this was a bit of a surprise to me, about 20 years ago, when I worked (as I did for many years) in the outdoor pursuits trade. GPS units would give a 12-character grid reference (1m2), but couldn't be relied upon to that level. I would tell people they're more precise than they are accurate, until it became apparent that they were waiting for me to complete the joke they thought I'd begun, as I was so clearly contradicting myself, what with the two words meaning identical things.
::Having gone on to explain the difference between the words, the neat brevity I'd sought was lost.
::Obviously they can be used sort of interchangeably in casual conversation, but I thought the difference was well enough known that, when talking about a navigational instrument, it would be obvious what was meant.
::Nope. [[User:Yorkshire Pudding|Yorkshire Pudding]] ([[User talk:Yorkshire Pudding|talk]]) 20:18, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
:::I deal with OS Grid References a lot, in a similar context, and a number of people who give 10-digits or more (2x5, for 1m res) from devices that typically don't ever settle down to less than 3m, and provably can be tens of metres off if there happens to be a small tree or shrub nearby.
:::(In fact, the other day I was geohashing myself, and my device was insisting I was in a totally different bit of the open field, 50m or so, no matter how much I sat it down at the provably correct point and wandered away so that even ''I'' wasn't obscuring its view of the sky. But it was good enough for me, which was all I do it for, so after giving it 5 minutes I counted it as done.)
:::And, in yet another activity, the publicised information for an event included a 12ish-DP reference for the starting area (vaguer than that), but just the ''postcode'' for the HQ (a very definite building that you could bullseye on a map), in a rural area where it covered half the valley! [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.12|172.70.86.12]] 22:19, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

How is 17.082 palindromic? [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 14:54, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
:My error, I meant an anagram! (Was going for "anagramic", and my brain clearly rebelled.) [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.137|172.71.178.137]] 15:00, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

High Precision High accuracy, Randall Munroe misses when Obama was president. Low precision Medium-rare accuracy, so do we, Randall, so do we. {{unsigned ip|172.70.130.154 }}

It is so annoying that the US uses . and , to mean the opposite of what most European countries (including Denmark where I live). So when I read this it states that Obama was president less than 3 days (70 hours) but it more than 70000 feet tall. :-) Of course I now the difference but I have to think about it more than if everyone used the same standard. Also height should use SI units as everyone should ;-) (weight given in number of cats is the new SI unit as far as I know, but don't use inches and feet ;-D ) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:17, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
:Well, as a UKian, I was happy enough. Tell you what, though, let's develop a [[927: Standards|new and mutually-acceptable standard notation]]... ;) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.25|172.70.85.25]] 09:44, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
::Good idea. Lets meet on [[2562|11/12/22]] to discuss the details. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 13:41, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

I think Randall missed an opportunity to clarify how high precision can make something inaccurate. He could have said that Obama is 6’ 1.02173” tall, which would clearly be very precise, and also clearly inaccurate, simply because of the excessive precision. [[User:John|John]] ([[User talk:John|talk]]) 15:22, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
:Saying 6'1.0278 would have been more in theme, there. And it would be not really more inaccurate (might even be closer to the truth...) but would convey a false precision.
:Interstingly, when Andrew Waugh measured Mount Everest (before it was so named) he got a diffraction-adjusted figure of 29,000 feet, but decided to announced that it was 29,002 so that it didn't just like a rough figure rounded to the nearest hundred or even thousand feet. This made him the first person to put two feet on the top of Everest!
:(...The actual error was not bad, given his measurements had to be made from hundreds of miles away. Current official measurements with on-the-spot modern GPS say 29,031.7 feet (for the snow-peak, which is all that Waugh could mention), after 170ish years of (by some estimates, but contested) about a foot of extra height per decade through the continuing techtonic raising of the Himalaya. And any unknown differences in snow-depth. Certainly it was within tens of feet, i.e. a dozen or so metres. With a bit of an error-bar, but not really that big when you consider it...)
: So, arguably, that case was a deliberately false accuracy to help convey the true precision. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.3|172.70.90.3]] 16:15, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
:I don't get your point? Unless you just made up everything after the decimal point: How would it be less acurate? --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 09:37, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

I was expecting maybe a reference to Schrödinger's President when I first read the comic - but later realized that this could have been misconstrued as a threat. Oops!

Talk:2696: Precision vs Accuracy

2022-11-10T13:41:39Z

Lupo:

Talk:2696: Precision vs Accuracy

2022-11-10T13:41:09Z

Lupo: messing around

Talk:2695: Soil

2022-11-07T13:00:43Z

Lupo:

Published unusually early? —[[User:While False|While False]] ([[User:While False/explain xkcd museum|'''museum''']] | [[User talk:While False|talk]] | [[special:Contributions/While_False|contributions]] | [[special:Log/While_False|logs]] | [[Special:UserRights/While_False|rights]]) 11:05, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
:Lately yes, I usually didn't see the monday comics on monday European time. (Maybe if I would have checked during evenings) - But in the past publishings were often during European daytime. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 13:00, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

2695: Soil

2022-11-07T12:59:11Z

Lupo: ! instead of .

{{comic
| number = 2695
| date = November 7, 2022
| title = Soil
| image = soil_2x.png
| imagesize = 547x217px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = You might want to bring your frost-sensitive plants in from the patio. The high-level aerosols may result in short-term cooling across the entire backyard.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by an EXPLANATION SEED — Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

Volcanic soil is [https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/earth-and-planetary-sciences/volcanic-soil generally fertile].

Sulfate {{w|aerosol}}s from volcanic eruptions may cause a [https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/earth-and-planetary-sciences/volcanic-soil short-term cooling effect].

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[Cueball is standing, holding a trowel. Beret guy is kneeling, and pouring the content of a small bag in a hole in the ground.]

:Cueball: Thanks for the gardening help!

:Beret guy: I made these seeds myself!

:[Beret guy is standing next to a small eruption coming from the ground.]

:[Same scene, eruption is now a knee-high volcano. It produces fumes.]

:Beret guy: The infusion of nutrient-rich volcanic soil will revitalize your garden.

:[Same scene, the volcano is now waist-high. There are flames on its sides.]

:Voice outside the picture from the direction of Cueball: All my plants are on fire.

:Beret guy: But soon, life will return to these slopes!

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Beret Guy]]
[[Category:Volcanoes]]

User:Vandalbane

2022-10-14T07:57:08Z

Lupo: I assume you just used a lowercase t somewhere?

I wonder if I can keep my page unvandalised if I never use a lowercase T.

2684: Road Space Comparison

2022-10-14T04:57:01Z

Lupo: /* Transcript */ 39 hamsterballs - not 50 in the image

{{comic
| number = 2684
| date = October 12, 2022
| title = Road Space Comparison
| image = road_space_comparison_2x.png
| imagesize = 740x1157px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = I wonder how hard it would be to ride an electric scooter in a hamster ball.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a WALKABLE ELECTRIC HAMPSTER BALL ENJOYER - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
The comic is a parody of a common comparison done in arguments for walkable cities - the amount of usable space taken up by cars and car-centric infrastructure that could be eliminated for other useful public amenities. The first of these may be from 1965[https://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/collections/collections-online/posters/item/1983-4-7561].

The first 4 images are common, real-life comparisons involving people walking, people on bicycles, public transport, and cars, which distinctly show how cars take up significantly more space for the same number of people than the other methods of transport. However, from this point the comic becomes more and more absurd in its comparisons.

The 5th one shows 50 people on what may be a tandem bicycle (although seems more likely to actually be a string of {{w|trailer bike}}s, due to person-separation and being clearly non-rigid). This would obviously be impractical in a city due to the tandem's sheer length and would not be able to work with fewer people due to its sheer mass. The [https://www.active.com/articles/bicycle-built-for-52-pedals-into-guinness-book longest compound cycle] holds 52 people, while an actual tandem bicycle exists that has at least [https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/346988346267601955/ 35 seats].

The 6th one involves 20 people driving 40 cars, with each person driving 2 cars at a time by straddling them in the middle. Besides being unwieldy and impractical, it would also be extremely dangerous as the cars could go out of control at any time. Perhaps the cars would be a paired mix of left-hand-drive and right-hand-drive models, although with enough push-rods/levers (to also reach the traditional foot controls, and also gear sticks unless ''fully'' automatic) this might not be as important. However, even if the cars were perfectly safe to drive, it would be unsafe to drive them on most roads; roads with only one lane per direction are common, everywhere from city streets to exit ramps, and attempts to drive a pair of cars down such a road side by side are unlikely to end well.

(Of course, worse than any of these petty safety concerns is the fact that each person takes up twice as much road space, making most infrastructure a bit less efficient.)

The 7th one has 30 cars riding on 6 buses by stacking them on top of each other. Assuming the same people-per-car/bus from the earlier examples, this arrangement would have about 345 people riding on the same road! (Unless, of course, the buses are carrying 30 cars ''instead of'' their normal passengers.) In addition, people getting out of the cars when they reach their destination would be a problem for most cars in this arrangement due to them being stacked under other cars or surrounded by them. And as in the previous example, it would be impossible to safely drive anywhere without two clear lanes...and the body count would be considerably higher.

The 8th panel has 50 people in hamster balls. Randall has shown his interest in human sized [[:Category:Hamster Ball|hamster ball]] transportation before, and indeed this would be an enjoyable way to traverse a road, provided no other hamster balls try to drive into you and knock you off the road. The image shows 39 hamster balls, implying that roughly one in four has a passenger; under these constraints, they appear to be slightly more efficient than cars. Another explanation for 39 balls is that there are more hamster balls than are able to be shown on the road diagram.

The 9th panel has 40 tiny cars pulling a big one. Such feats of strengths are a common sight while setting world records, so maybe this is a world record attempt by the cars in question. It is unknown how many people fit in the big car; judging by its size, it likely fits more than a single bus and less than three.

The 10th panel is a 50 person variation on the classic {{w|wolf, goat and cabbage problem}} (which has also been [[2348: Boat Puzzle|referenced before]] by Randall) except this one involves 30 goats, 20 cabbages and 10 wolves trying to cross the now-flooded road with a single boat. It is not known how many people (or cabbages for that matter) the boat fits, but since humans significantly outnumber the goats, cabbages and wolves, it seems like a much simpler problem, though not necessarily without difficulty. It is, however, rather off that there is a conveniently placed dock at the edge of the water, implying that the road gets flooded often enough to warrant a permanent dock to be installed.

The initial bicycles and singular bus are actually (mostly) using the left-hand lane of the three shown, for whatever reason. This would not be unusual on British highways or {{w|Left- and right-hand traffic#Worldwide distribution by country|other countries}} using their system, whether the lanes seen are just one of the directional carriageways of a multi-lane split highway or the centre-lane is a gantry-signed {{w|Reversible lane|'tidal lane'}} of a fully two-way street. Though it is considered bad practice to ride bikes three-abreast and across lanes, and would (intentionally or otherwise) generally annoy motorists. Yet people who have to walk on a road (due to no footway) are advised to walk facing oncoming traffic (the right-hand side, in the same jurisdiction) and not bunched up. It would be interesting to know why Randall, much more familiar with US road conventions, would have offset these various road-users the way he did (rather than hogging the central lane, or across the ''entire'' highway width as he did with the other diagrams in the series).

The title text proposes a problem related to another alternative form of transport — the electric scooter. Randall wonders how well an electric scooter would function when run inside the hamster ball. This would probably function like some sort of spherical {{w|monowheel}}.

==Transcript==
:[Overhead views of ten segments of highway in two rows with a caption above. Each road segment has a caption and a different scenario.]
:Road Space Comparison

:[50 people in the bottom left of the highway, all fitting into a single lane and taking up about a fourth of the length of the road.]
:50 people walking

:[50 bike riders in the bottom left of the highway, extending about halfway up the road and spilling over slightly into the second-to-leftmost lane]
:50 people riding bikes

:[A single bus, fitting into roughly the same space as the 50 people from the first scenario]
:50 people riding a bus

:[33 cars, taking up the entire length of all three lanes]
:50 people in 33 cars

:[One long string of connected bike riders, curving slightly and extending down the entire length of the middle lane]
:50 people on one tandem bicicle

:[40 cars in pairs, each pair with a single person straddling the windows between them. They take up the entire highway segment and each pair extends partway from the outer lanes into the middle]
:20 people driving 40 cars

:[Six buses on the lines between lanes taking up the majority of the highway, 30 cars arranged in stacks across the top]
:30 cars riding on 6 buses

:[39 evenly-spaced hamster balls with a person inside each, taking up the majority of the highway except a space at the top]
:50 people in human-sized hamster balls

:[An oversized car taking up all three lanes at the bottom of the highway, with a pair of ropes and a beam attatched to the front bumper. The beam is attached to 40 miniature cars in front arranged into four lines]
:One giant car pulled by 40 tiny ones

:[The road is bisected by a large river taking up about half of its original area, with a dock and rowboat attatched to the lower shore. 50 people, 30 goats, 20 cabbages, and 10 wolves are in groups on the same side]
:50 people with 30 goats, 20 cabbages, and 10 wolves.

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Hamster Ball]]
[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Food]]
[[Category:Logic]]