explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

Talk:3229: Grammar

2026-04-08T17:51:31Z

Pganon: Think that's the way forward

E3EeE E3eE!! [[User:Logalex8369|Logalex8369]] ([[User talk:Logalex8369|talk]]) 22:26, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
: E [[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 19:54, 7 April 2026 (UTC)

I created a transcript, but used OCR for all the E's because I kept losing count of how many there were. If someone wants to factcheck that, please do. [[Special:Contributions/104.28.215.220|104.28.215.220]] 22:45, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
: Factchecked 19 E's counted in the image and 19 E's counted in the transcript. [[Special:Contributions/12.155.149.34|12.155.149.34]] 23:00, 6 April 2026 (UTC)

It looks like the bot picked up the April Fool's "feature" as interactive, should we keep it or remove? [[Special:Contributions/104.28.215.220|104.28.215.220]] 22:46, 6 April 2026 (UTC)

Side note: I have heard people using both alternate niche methods of language structure, kinda like those people who adopt a losing format even after it's clear it has lost. On character who has on occasion dabbled in both is Homer Simpson, BTW. --[[Special:Contributions/94.73.49.13|94.73.49.13]]
:I still say that Video2000 was the superior home VCR format, in every way...[[Special:Contributions/81.179.199.253|81.179.199.253]] 23:55, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
: Not really niche - a significant proportion of spoken language is non-grammatical. [[Special:Contributions/82.13.184.33|82.13.184.33]] 16:27, 7 April 2026 (UTC)
:: your non-grammatical [[Special:Contributions/45.178.3.34|45.178.3.34]] 14:34, 8 April 2026 (UTC)

Any "competitors" to grammar would still be grammars since a grammar, by definition, describes how a language is structured. [[Special:Contributions/75.248.235.98|75.248.235.98]] 00:00, 7 April 2026 (UTC)
:Well, the Random Words one ''seems'' to have no particular structure beyond being word-utterances, and the EEEEEEEEEEEEEE one doesn't even have much that ''can'' be structuralised (though I'm half expecting it to actually supposed to be a modem 'yowl', it needn't even be that), so I'm willing to bet that this exempts them from any consistent quality of being grammar. [[Special:Contributions/81.179.199.253|81.179.199.253]] 00:08, 7 April 2026 (UTC)
: The second example used the term word-s which in itself is a structure with grammar. And the last example might well have grammar, if eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee is a single morpheme, we siply wouldn't be able to recognize the grammar. [[Special:Contributions/195.65.24.115|195.65.24.115]]

I interpreted "words order words random words words random good" differently. I assumed it was missing commas and should be read as "words-order", "words-random" "words-words" "random-good". Maybe(probably?) not what Randall intended, but if anyone interpreted it the same as me, you're not alone! {{unsigned ip|69.204.108.174|00:23, 7 April 2026 (UTC)}}

i reconsider this: non-verbal communication isn't another rival for communication, as it is a subset (after seeing and liking [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=3229:_Grammar&diff=next&oldid=409748 this anon's edit]), but i'm not sure what other methods there could be than just communication and non-communication; Lenhart says "rivals" plural -- <span style="letter-spacing:0.1rem">[[User:Somefan|somefan]] ([[User talk:Somefan|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Somefan|contribs]])</span> 00:45, 7 April 2026 (UTC)
:Pretty sure the joke is that any alternative to communication would by definition be impossible to communicate. --[[User:Biotronic|Biotronic]] ([[User talk:Biotronic|talk]]) 08:18, 7 April 2026 (UTC)
::Actually, I worded that wrong - what I meant is that '' is an example of non-communication, which is not very effective at transmitting information --[[User:Biotronic|Biotronic]] ([[User talk:Biotronic|talk]]) 08:58, 7 April 2026 (UTC)

give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you [[Special:Contributions/137.25.230.78|137.25.230.78]] 00:54, 7 April 2026 (UTC)
:steal orange me steal eat orange me eat orange steal me eat orange steal me you [[User:King Pando|King Pando]] ([[User talk:King Pando|talk]]) 02:34, 7 April 2026 (UTC)

orange orange orange
orange orange orange
orange orange orange
yellow
orange you glad I didn't say orange? [[Special:Contributions/98.22.184.160|98.22.184.160]] 11:27, 7 April 2026 (UTC)

I would suggest that light/photons are the most popular way of transmitting information? to (most) humans anyway... {{unsigned ip|2a02:a468:b8cb:0:5a82:a830:1528:55af|13:15, 7 April 2026 (UTC)}}
: Only up until the last mile. [[Special:Contributions/82.13.184.33|82.13.184.33]] 14:15, 7 April 2026 (UTC)

Why waste time use good grammar when bad grammar do trick? [[Special:Contributions/70.40.121.82|70.40.121.82]] 15:08, 7 April 2026 (UTC)
:Cuz if you're doing too bad grammar, sometimes you'll see some sentences that triggers Uncanny Valley effect (or related stuff). (I would guess this way) [[User:Cream Starlight|Cream Starlight]] ([[User talk:Cream Starlight|talk]]) 15:25, 7 April 2026 (UTC)

::It's a reference to [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bctjSvn-OC8 this scene] from the American version of The Office. [[User:MeZimm|MeZimm]] ([[User talk:MeZimm|talk]]) 16:08, 7 April 2026 (UTC)

In Cookie Clicker, there’s a news ticker message that says “Neeeeews : "neeeew EEEEEE keeeeey working fineeeeeeeee", reeeports gleeeeeeeeful journalist.” Might be a reference to that. [[Special:Contributions/185.124.31.68|185.124.31.68]] 15:41, 7 April 2026 (UTC)

Erm, isn't the current description kind of missing the point? "Grammar is one of the most popular ways to structure a language" is a tautology. "Grammar" studies how languages are structured, so ANY organization scheme of a language (from random to highly structured) would be classified as that language's grammar. Trying to say there are "other ways to structure a language" would just be a different form of grammar. Same thing with the title text. "Communication" is transmitting information from one individual to another. Any alternative to "Communication" isn't transmitting information. [[Special:Contributions/57.140.32.31|57.140.32.31]] 16:32, 7 April 2026 (UTC)

The "words order random words" part may be a reference to {{w|Nim Chimpsky}}'s sign language "sentences" like "Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you". [[Special:Contributions/193.179.120.253|193.179.120.253]] 18:22, 7 April 2026 (UTC)

I figured the EEE....EEE was referring to the screeching of a modem trying to establish communication. --[[User:Jimmosk|Jimmosk]] ([[User talk:Jimmosk|talk]]) 22:07, 7 April 2026 (UTC)

Farm Macdonald farm old farm farm had farm a, EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE [[User:King Pando|King Pando]] ([[User talk:King Pando|talk]]) 02:53, 8 April 2026 (UTC)

Somebody should make a version of scream cypher where it's E instead of A. [[Special:Contributions/216.25.182.141|216.25.182.141]] 04:43, 8 April 2026 (UTC)

Oh btw, in Chinese translation of What If? 2, the amount of E's featured in the question were 1083. I counted lol [[User:Cream Starlight|Cream Starlight]] ([[User talk:Cream Starlight|talk]]) 04:46, 8 April 2026 (UTC)

This reminds me of a linguistics forum post a professor showed my class once. "I respect Chomsky, but Universal Grammar isn't all it's cracked up to be," it read. "The best way to learn a language is through immersion!" [[User:Flipping Mackerel|Flipping Mackerel]] ([[User talk:Flipping Mackerel|talk]]) 11:46, 8 April 2026 (UTC)
: The best way to learn a language is a correspondence course. [[Special:Contributions/82.13.184.33|82.13.184.33]] 13:09, 8 April 2026 (UTC)

I believe this is a reference to frequent weird results that Google AI mode sometimes returns after a search. I got this exact behavior twice. --[[Special:Contributions/82.132.222.151|82.132.222.151]] 12:42, 8 April 2026 (UTC)
: That's what I was thinking before I came here: AI excreting nonsense, and a teacher happily conveying that to the class. But that's just a hunch, can't get a handle on the actual joke yet. [[User:Pganon|Pganon]] ([[User talk:Pganon|talk]]) 17:51, 8 April 2026 (UTC)

Language is not about communicating "facts" or propositions. It is a behaviour which benefits an individual by influencing the behaviour of a second individual to the benefit of the first.
[[User:Kelvin128|Kelvin128]] ([[User talk:Kelvin128|talk]]) 16:38, 8 April 2026 (UTC)

Talk:3045: AlphaMove

2025-02-01T15:55:03Z

Pganon: pretty sure it is a retrograde puzzle

Ask Tom Murphy VII to get on this [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.103|141.101.99.103]] 22:50, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

I have attempted to run the proposed bot against itself — if I haven't made any errors, here are the resulting games:

Rounding down:
1. e4 e6 2. f3 f5 3. e5 g5 4. d4 d5 5. exd6 g4 6. d7+ Kf7 7. dxc8=N Ke8 8. fxg4 h6 9. gxf5 Kd7 10. g4 h5 11. fxe6+ Ke8 12. g5 Na6 13. h3 Nc5 14. h4 Ne7 15. Kd2 Ne4+ 16. Ke1 Nf5 17. g6 Nf6 18. g7 Ng3 19. gxf8=N Nge4 20. Ke2 Ng4 21. Kf3 Ngf2 22. Ke2 Nh3 23. Ke3 Nhf2 24. Nb6 Nh3 25. Na4 Nhf2 26. Nac3 Nxc3 27. Kxf2 Nxd1+ 28. Kf3 Qc8 29. c4 Ne3 30. Ke4 Nf5 31. Kd3 Ng3 32. e7 Nxh1 33. Kc2 Qb8 34. d5 Kxe7 35. d6+ Kf6 36. dxc7 Nf2 37. c8=R Ng4 38. Kd2 Nh2 39. Ke3 Ng4+ 40. Kd4 Nh2 41. Kd5 Nxf1 42. Nc3 Nh2 43. Nce2 Ng4 44. Nd4 Nh6 45. Nd7+ Kf7 46. Ndf3 Qd6+ 47. Ke4 Qd2 48. Nf8 Qd5+ 49. Ke3 Qd2+ 50. Ke4 Qd5+ 51. Ke3 Qd2+ 52. Ke4

Rounding up:
1. f3 f5 2. e4 f4 3. d4 e6 4. e5 g6 5. g3 fxg3 6. c3 g2 7. d5 gxf1=Q+ 8. Kxf1 exd5 9. Ke2 d6 10. Kd3 g5 11. Kd2 dxe5 12. Ke2 d4 13. Kd3 dxc3+ 14. Ke3 e4 15. Ne2 exf3 16. Ng1 f2 17. Nxc3 fxg1=N 18. Qc2 Kd7 19. Ne2 h6 20. Qa4+ Ke6 21. Qb3+ Ke7 22. Qb4+ Ke8 23. Qb5+ Kf7 24. Qa6 Kg7 25. Qa4 Kg6 26. Qb3 Kg7 27. Qb4 Kh7 28. Qb5 Kg7 29. Qa6 Nc6 30. Nxg1 Na5 31. Qb6 Kh7 32. Qb3 Kg6 33. Qb4 Kg7 34. Qb6 Kh7 35. Qb3 Kg6 36. Qb4 Kg7 37. Qb6

Rounding down code:
const { Chess } = require("chess.js");

const chess = new Chess();
while (!chess.isGameOver()) {
const moves = chess.moves();
moves.sort((a, b) => b.localeCompare(a));
const move = moves[Math.floor(moves.length / 2)];
chess.move(move);
}
console.log(chess.pgn());

To round up, swap the a and b in the sort function.

Both games end in a threefold repetition draw. The game with rounding down does, in fact, have 6 knights in it, so I believe he did code this to see what would happen.

[[User:Ohpointfive|Ohpointfive]] ([[User talk:Ohpointfive|talk]]) 22:52, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

To elaborate on the Tom VII point - this is the YouTube video that possibly inspired the comic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpXy041BIlA

[[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.179|141.101.98.179]] 22:55, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

Unfortunately for white, it's mate in 1 with Bb4# [[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.124|162.158.90.124]] 23:25, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

Even if white makes a different move, its still forced mate in one. RIP XKCD Bot. [[User:Redacted II|Redacted II]] ([[User talk:Redacted II|talk]]) 00:53, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

<s>Although it wouldn't change the outcome much (either by changing black's move or white's general options), I'm currently not understanding why Kd4 isn't on the list of options at this point in time. So long since I played serious(ish) chess, and the only reason I could think of is that it's probibited by some strict ortbodox game rule recognising the ''potential'' moving of the knight out of the way (in the next white move-cycle). But I'd have treated that later option as forbidden, as a revealing-mate. But, as I said, it's been a while, so maybe I'm just blind to something like a sweeping bishop-range that disbars this (much as the near knight, bishop and pawn disbars four out of the five moves).</s> ...darn, it's just clicked. That's the AlphaMoved white-knight's destination (before that, the black queen was entirely covering that square, and double-teaming one of the adjacent black-knight covered squares), I'd been thinking that was the piece's origin (with the empty highlighted square as its destination) until I'd finally read the highlighted movelist item properly and deciphered it as Knight To King Two (done), not the (intention of) Knight To King's Bishop One. So ignore the above. Although, just to note, for the Black Queen to have even achieved that position would probably have required at least ''one'' normally-sacrificial exposure to the deadly white Q/B/R pieces guarding the obvious entry, give or take the algorithmic development of their (and the "gateway pawns"') current positions. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.104|141.101.99.104]] 02:00, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
:Follow-up... As far as the black queen is concerned, I suppose she could have done d6, (x?)g3 then f2, in-between the other black and white moves made, largely safe from the white 'defence'. Or to d4 then f2, if white Queen's Pawn was shielding still. (Appears to have been taken, but it would have been bold to have done that with the queen, for a normally immediate pawn-queen exhange!) A bolder/more opportunistic set of moves than I would have tried, either. Even (unknowingly) against AlphaMove, I'd have been wary of the unconventionally developing white disposition actually being an idiot-trap (and I'm really not that far off being an idiot, insofar as chess). [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.162|172.70.162.162]] 02:17, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

The explanation gives both O-O and 0-0 as notations for castling and then explains why 0-0 can never occur, even though O-O can be sorted pretty centrally. So, which is the correct notation? [[Special:Contributions/172.71.250.91|172.71.250.91]] 09:14, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
:According to the [https://ia802908.us.archive.org/26/items/pgn-standard-1994-03-12/PGN_standard_1994-03-12.txt pgn spec], section 8.2.3.3: they are capital Os and not zeros [[Special:Contributions/172.68.3.96|172.68.3.96]] 15:10, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure we're looking at a retrograde puzzle. [[User:Ohpointfive|Ohpointfive]] is onto something here, with the six knights on the board a strong indicator. The question is, of course, where is the joke? White plays Alphamove all along and must have started with e4 (rounding down) or f3 (rounding up). Both are consistent with the end position. So from my point of view, the joke is
* either that the "stronger engine" is not a strong engine at all but maybe the same algorithm, rounding up instead of down
* or that black doesn't win this position (in real chess, White is of course toast) because its algorithm is even worse
@Ohpointfive, could you run the two versions against each other? --[[User:Pganon|Pganon]] ([[User talk:Pganon|talk]]) 15:55, 1 February 2025 (UTC)