https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=108.162.217.191&feedformat=atomexplain xkcd - User contributions [en]2024-03-28T16:35:49ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.30.0https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:1663:_Garden&diff=116744Talk:1663: Garden2016-04-06T22:28:43Z<p>108.162.217.191: </p>
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<div>Some of the posts in [[#Finally Garden is up on xkcd|Finally Garden is up on xkcd]] where originally posted on the [[Talk:1662:_Jack_and_Jill#What_happened_to_Friday.27s_comic|Talk page for Jack and Jill]], below the section about why this comic was not already up on April 1st. The ''Finally Garden is up on xkcd'' section was moved here, because this was made after the comic was up, but before this page was created... [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:11, 5 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
== Finally Garden is up on xkcd ==<br />
:It is here the comic we have been waiting for, and it seems it is a April fool comic although it first came out past midnight in all of the US except Hawaii...<br />
:I do not know when it will be on this page but for those impatient... <br />
:[http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/5/53/Garden_Loading_screen_shot.png Loading screen shot]<br />
:It says to Relax, while it loads, but it will eventually get to a barren land with a growth lamp that can be moved:<br />
:[http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/c/c8/Garden_Lamp_screen_shot.png Starting point screen shot]<br />
:The lamp can be moved and change color.<br />
:[http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/0/09/Garden_Red_Lamp_screen_shot.png Red Lamp selected screen shot]<br />
:It may be there will be something growing if we wait long enough?<br />
:And there will be more lamps and new items:<br />
:[http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/b/b8/Garden_Three_Lamp_screen_shot.png Three Lamps and birdbath screen shot.png]]<br />
:Yes he is messing with us for sure but at least not by not making a comic :-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:46, 4 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
::I succeeded to get a small plant, but I'm not sure how. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.86.167|162.158.86.167]] 10:16, 4 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
:::Try not to cover everything with every light wavelength. I'm sure you get different plants with different wavelengths: <br />
:::[http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/b/bf/aprilfool-2016-xorg.png Lots of growth].<br />
::::'''Moved the picture links''' to the image page, and inserted direct links to the images instad. It took up too much space. [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:04, 5 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
:::Also, I've noticed a constant cpu usage, indicating some kind of number crunching. The script's name "linden" reminded me of linden dollars and crowdsourcing bitcoin mining with javascript, but afair linden dollars were never mined nor based on cryptography. -- [[User:Xorg|Xorg]] ([[User talk:Xorg|talk]]) 10:30, 4 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
::::"Linden" is probably a reference to the Linden trees, a genus (Latin name Tilia). It would make more sense than a reference to dollars, at least. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.135.57|162.158.135.57]] 12:14, 4 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
:::::My first thought were {{w|Lindenmayer system}}s --[[Special:Contributions/198.41.242.240|198.41.242.240]] 16:29, 4 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
:::Ok, it's *moving*. The leaves wobble in the wind. That explains the cpu usage. So far I have seen the following images: <code>asdfx2=""; for (asdfx in garden.linden.imgCache.imgs) { asdfx2 += asdfx+" "; } asdfx2<br />
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"http://xkcd.com/1663/art/background.png http://xkcd.com/1663/art/talltrunk-2.png http://xkcd.com/1663/art/shrub-8.png http://xkcd.com/1663/art/wavyplant-3.png http://xkcd.com/1663/art/turtle-1.png http://xkcd.com/1663/art/shrub-6.png http://xkcd.com/1663/art/birdbath.png http://xkcd.com/1663/art/cactus-2.png http://xkcd.com/1663/art/trunk-6.png http://xkcd.com/1663/art/branch-11.png http://xkcd.com/1663/art/branch-18.png http://xkcd.com/1663/art/woman-1a.png http://xkcd.com/1663/art/branch-21.png http://xkcd.com/1663/art/rover.png http://xkcd.com/1663/art/leaves-7.png http://xkcd.com/1663/art/leaves-6.png "<br />
</code> -- [[User:Xorg|Xorg]] ([[User talk:Xorg|talk]]) 12:10, 4 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
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For those who are in https (with firefox for example) and don't see the "comic", there is mixed content. Click on the padlock on the up-left corner, then on the arrow, then "disable the protection against not secure elements" (or something like that). [[User:Seipas|Seipas]] ([[User talk:Seipas|talk]]) 11:32, 4 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
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The comic is finally here! ... but it won't load on my computer. Does anybody know what the problem might be or how I can fix it? [[User:Soad Kraken|Soad Kraken]] ([[User talk:Soad Kraken|talk]]) 12:45, 4 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
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Does not load (continually Loading...) on IE/FF/Chrome for me (in UK, non-https, ad-blockers turned off) any ideas? {{unsigned ip|141.101.98.114}}<br />
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Loads for me in Chrome, but then every time it refreshes, it resets the lamps to the default (one lamp in center). Removes the ones I added. Does this happen to anyone else? [[User:Vixy|Vixy]] ([[User talk:Vixy|talk]]) 16:51, 4 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
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Did someone try the debugmode?<br />
:http://xkcd.com/1663/?debug#YourCode<br />
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It also logs data in the console<br />
[[User:Magno|Magno]] ([[User talk:Magno|talk]]) 12:51, 4 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
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Doesn't work even in HTTP at all. Both Chrome and Firefox fail to load the content due to CORS: "EventSource cannot load http://linden.xkcd.com/run. No 'Access-Control-Allow-Origin' header is present on the requested resource. Origin 'http://xkcd.com' is therefore not allowed access. The response had HTTP status code 500." [[Special:Contributions/141.101.80.31|141.101.80.31]] 16:37, 6 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
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Post new images here: [[1663: Garden/Screen-shots]]. Anyone know what happens to the site, it looks really weird and it is difficult to use the site now. [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:52, 4 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
:Ah I can see there is a [[explain_xkcd:Community_portal/Technical#mw-head|community post about this]] already. [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 07:22, 5 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
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== April Fools? ==<br />
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What's the evidence that this is an April Fools comic? I think that the April Fools joke this year was the absence of a comic, and all the silly excuses about it when it was never coming. [[User:JoDu987|JoDu987]] ([[User talk:JoDu987|talk]]) 15:48, 4 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
:It's interactive. April Fools comics are always interactive. Normal comics rarely are. [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 16:52, 4 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
::I would rather say that it is also an april fool's comic because it came late. But first of all it has the pointless but time consuming concept of user input resulting in a comic that has no joke in it self, or at least only user made. Second the comic is rather complex and doesn't seem to work on all browsers. I cannot make it work on my explorer at home, but it did work at my office. It seems likely that he has worked very hard t make this work. When he then had problems with it Friday, he may have taken the chance of using April 1st to make excuses that people could read as being an April fool's joke. But neither way, he tells in the status updates that we are awaiting a complex comic, and in the end he said that the Friday comic (from April 1st) would come Sunday evening, and it did, so this is Fridays comic and thus also April the 1st's comic. [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 18:52, 4 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
:The April Fool's Joke is lost on everyone here so far. Let me explain. You have 3 lamps you are allowed to use max and 3 different colors you can use max. That means there are a total of 7 possible colors you can use to grow things in your garden (red only, yellow only, blue only, red+yellow, red+blue, yellow+blue, and red+yellow+blue). If you are OCD, like me, you will work to position the lamps in such a way that all possible combinations are available at different positions on the ground. However, it cannot be done or if it can I have yet to find a way! I believe that is why the title text says "Relax". Because he knows the challenge will drive people crazy trying to find the solution. Maybe there is one but I think the April Fool's joke is that there isn't a possible solution but people will spend lots of time trying anyway.[[User:R0hrshach|R0hrshach]] ([[User talk:R0hrshach|talk]]) 16:33, 5 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
::I updated the explanation with this information but apparently someone didn't like that and just removed the entire paragraph without any alternate explanation. Oh well...[[User:R0hrshach|R0hrshach]] ([[User talk:R0hrshach|talk]]) 17:23, 5 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
::This doesn't sound likely to me. It is impossible to do what you describe, and I would think "Relax" refers to the slow growth rate of the gardens. [[User:KangaroOS|Kangaro]][[User talk:KangaroOS|OS]] 18:18, 5 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
:::And also it is possible over time because you can move the lamps. By the way there are more than three colors. There are also white and other hues in between red and yellow and red and blue. So there are many more combos. [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 22:30, 5 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
:::I agree that "Relax" can have multiple meanings but the fact that you are limited to 3 lamps and 3 primary colors bears significance to me. Or why not let you spawn in 4 or 5 or 6? I also think the April Fool's joke can refer to the fact that gardens are meant to be relaxing but instead you will be left tending your garden and working to achieve all possible combinations. The opposite of relaxing.[[User:R0hrshach|R0hrshach]] ([[User talk:R0hrshach|talk]]) 03:43, 6 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
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== Mobile ==<br />
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Like many of the dynamic comics, Garden doesn't interact well with mobile devices, but I have found a workaround for this one. On my Android tablet, going to m.xkcd.com/1663 gives me a page where I can manipulate the lights - tap once on a light to reveal the handles, tap in whitespace to hide them - but the landscape and growth are not rendered.<br />
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But, as I manipulate the lights, a string is appended to the URL; if I replace the initial '''m''' with '''www''' while preserving this string, I get a page where the landscape and growth are displayed. But from this page, I cannot manipulate the lights. But it does appear that the string includes enough information to prevent "losing progress", as several iterations of swapping between the mobile and desktop URLs retained all existing growth. Therefore, some level of timestamp information may also be included in the composition of this string. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.73|108.162.216.73]] 14:18, 4 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
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:Actually, it doesn't look like the URL changes when I move the lights after all. So now instead I'm guessing it's more of a unique identifier or something. If two people both use the same string, will one person's act of moving a light be reflected by the other user refreshing their browser? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.73|108.162.216.73]] 14:33, 4 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
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== Resets ==<br />
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Resets occur sporadically, because they are actually happenning when there was a connection_error event in the WebWorker. The "game" is continually contacting the server (linden.xkcd.com) and is resetting the page on the connection errors. The fact that this resets the progress is probably a bug. --[[User:DukeBG|DukeBG]] ([[User talk:DukeBG|talk]]) 16:52, 4 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
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It seems to reset the light placement and settings too, not just the plants in the garden [[Special:Contributions/162.158.210.238|162.158.210.238]] 07:06, 5 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
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== Linux ==<br />
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Anyone else NOT able to get it to work on Linux. Tried Chrome, and FF, both with all extensions disabled. Linux Mint (like Ubuntu). Constantly says "Loading..."<br />
[[Special:Contributions/162.158.214.217|162.158.214.217]] 17:23, 4 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
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You're not the only one. Running Unbuntu 12.04. Opera displays "Loading ..." for over 30 minutes. Firefox finishes loading and I can add and tweak lamps, but nothing grows.<br />
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.218.59|108.162.218.59]] 19:32, 4 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
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Works fine with chromium on gentoo. {{unsigned ip|162.158.83.156}}<br />
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I had the same problem with Firefox on Ubuntu 15.04. However, reloading the page fixed it. Maybe it's got something to do with caching, or maybe it just only works with some chance. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.104.92|141.101.104.92]] 11:02, 5 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
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== Available "plants" ==<br />
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<strike>I've got a Megan so far. Are we going to try to compile a list of what things will grow in the garden? --[[User:KingStarscream|KingStarscream]] ([[User talk:KingStarscream|talk]]) 19:06, 4 April 2016 (UTC)</strike><br />
: Oversight on my part. Apologies. --[[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.64|173.245.52.64]] 19:18, 4 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
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== Suggestions for the explanation ==<br />
What is missing and what would be interesting. And how can you help... Add it here below, maybe even with subheadings. [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:18, 5 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
===Possible items===<br />
*Someone has made a list of [[1663:_Garden/Images|images of items]] that can be found on xkcd and seems to be complete. <br />
**Can anyone say for certain if it is complete now?<br />
***And can we be certain no new items appear? Anyone who can check this?<br />
**Can someone easily download all the images?<br />
***And if so either post them here as a zip file, or even better upload them to xkcd so we can have a page like this [[1350: Lorenz/Images]] for these items<br />
****And later tables similar to those in the [[1350: Lorenz#Themes|themes section]] of [[1350: Lorenz]]!<br />
*[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:27, 5 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
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===Urls===<br />
*'''[[1663: Garden/Users gardens|Post urls here]]'''.<br />
*Seems like the urls are not quite understood.<br />
**What I have found so far is that the urls do not change after you load a garden. Even if something grows or if the lights are moved.<br />
**If you save the url to begin with it will stay the same. <br />
**But if you load the url later then it is a view only image.<br />
***The questions are if the garden that an url refer to can be manipulated by the original user, to change what others see later even though they have the url. <br />
***My gardens reload to often to really have a chance to test this. But the url I posted yesterday (now used as [[1663:_Garden#Permanent_link|example]]) under explanation of permalinks kept developing after I copied it and closed the garden down.<br />
*[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:27, 5 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
::I have understood it much better now, and the explanation has been changed to the way it work. Urls are still interesting to see how peoples gardens develop, but they are not permalinks, so only screen shots will be useful to guide the explanation.I have taken lots already of peoples posted interesting gardens, before they became overgrown or the interesting part might get deleted by the owner of the garden. [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:42, 5 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
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I'm not sure if it's been mentioned before, but Cueball can look like he's holding items if they grow on his outstretched hand. <br />
http://xkcd.com/#8d526e44-fb49-11e5-8001-42010a8e000c<br />
[[Special:Contributions/162.158.38.207|162.158.38.207]] 10:03, 6 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
:It has not directly. More that it can grow on other things. Nice garden. I'll put it in the url section and post a screen shot with the twig on Cueballs hand. [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 15:31, 6 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
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== Title text ==<br />
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The "Create new light" and "Remove selected (delete key)" icons have their own title text. I don't think anything else does though. {{unsigned ip|141.101.98.74}}<br />
:Great thanks. Had not noticed. Added this to the explanation now. [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:26, 5 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
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== Colour mapping ==<br />
* Yellow light grows plants and birdbaths, but so does a combination of Magenta and Cyan light.<br />
* Magenta light grows cacti and turtles. Yellow light does not seem to affect this.<br />
* Cyan light grows octopuses.<br />
* Yellow light plus Cyan light grows office furniture.<br />
{{unsigned ip|141.101.98.74}}<br />
:Great it would be nice to see some garden urls or screen shots, especially of the furniture, which I haven't seen yet. [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:29, 5 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
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:I've noticed that blue + yellow sometimes yields really tall tress. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.255.103|162.158.255.103]] 17:00, 6 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
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:I made a garden with GUID f31fe17a-fb3f-11e5-8001-42010a8e000d to show the effects of mixing Magenta with either Cyan or Yellow. Interestingly on the left there are no cacti, only wavy plants and turtles, and I see a couple of birds have recently arrived. Meanwhile on the right you see something much like a regular Yellow garden, with trees, shrubs and bird baths with ducks. My second garden has GUID 6ebc8e04-fb50-11e5-8002-42010a8e0014 where I wanted to see the effect of mixing Cyan with Yellow. The pure Yellow section has a regular garden, the pure Cyan section an octopus farm, while in the middle we have what I can only describe as a white section, where I have a couple of desks (but sadly no lamp), balloons, bunnies, cats, a plant pot, and even an obelisk. --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.74|141.101.98.74]] 19:15, 6 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
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== [http://xkcd.com/1663/art/2x-bird-5.png Bird 5] ==<br />
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What's in the beak of [http://xkcd.com/1663/art/2x-bird-5.png Bird 5]? It reminds me of [[614: Woodpecker]], but it's something different. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.86.167|162.158.86.167]] 07:29, 6 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
:It looks to me like a mobile phone with charger cable attached {{unsigned ip|141.101.104.174}}<br />
::Yes that might be it, I had thought a mouse with a USB cable... By the way great spotted with the woodpecker. Beret Guy is also in this comic. This is why we need a table of items to make such observations. But who will do it ;-) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 15:29, 6 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
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== Lost gardens after new comic ==<br />
Have others lost access to changing their garden after Wednesdays comic came out? Even though I can find it via the new link (as described in the trivia section) then it seems I can no longer change anything and just has to see my gardens develop on their own. That would be a shame. If everyone experience this, then it may be fixed? [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 15:51, 6 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
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:Same here. New gardens are editable, however. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.255.103|162.158.255.103]] 17:16, 6 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
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::I hope this gets fixed cause my garden needs some pruning... [[User:Palmerito0|Palmerito0]] ([[User talk:Palmerito0|talk]]) 17:32, 6 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
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== Requires light on ground? ==<br />
I created a garden (GUID 5fad7434-fba3-11e5-8001-42010a8e0009) in which the lights are directed upward, but nothing has grown. This would seem to indicate that even the "flying" objects are "grown" from a particular piece of ground. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.217.191|108.162.217.191]] 22:28, 6 April 2016 (UTC)mathuaerknedam</div>108.162.217.191https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=985:_Percentage_Points&diff=78158985: Percentage Points2014-11-02T11:34:13Z<p>108.162.217.191: /* Explanation */</p>
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<div>{{comic<br />
| number = 985<br />
| date = December 2, 2011<br />
| title = Percentage Points<br />
| image = percentage_points.png<br />
| titletext = Grayton also proposed making college scholarships available exclusively to sexually active teens, amnesty for illegal immigrants who create room for themselves by killing a citizen, and a graduated income tax based on penis size. He has been endorsed by Tracy Morgan, John Wilkes Booth's ghost, and the Time Cube guy.<br />
}}<br />
[[File:MQ-1_Predator_unmanned_aircraft.jpg|thumb|upright=1.5| An MQ-1 Predator unmanned aircraft. (from Wikimedia Commons)]]<br />
==Explanation==<br />
Senator Grayton is a fictional character, made up for this comic, which is unusual for xkcd, which typically uses real-world references.<br />
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The issues that Grayton supports:<br />
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*Tax Breaks to Drunk Drivers: Grayton proposes giving those who have been convicted of a {{w|DUI}} or DWI (i.e. Driving Under the Influence or Driving While Intoxicated) money back on their taxes, when those infractions are typically severely penalized, as drunk driving has resulted in numerous deaths.<br />
*{{w|Predator Drones}} and the {{w|Christmas controversy|War on Christmas}}: The War on {{w|Christmas}} is not a real war; it is simply the perception by some {{w|Christian}}s that non-Christians are trying to replace traditional Christmas imagery with more inclusive and generic holiday customs. No politicians have explicitly announced their support of the "War on Christmas," and the idea that one would not only do so, but would also want to use drones —ostensibly to harm or possibly kill people— in the effort is an absurd exaggeration of a relatively harmless culture war.<br />
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The caption's issue with "percentage" versus "percentage points" is that if Grayton's 20% approval rating drops by 19%, that means that his support has only dropped 3.8 percentage points since 19% of 20% is only 3.8%. That would mean that even after all his outrageous statements, his support dropped only from 20% to 16.2%. However, if the news reports that his 20% approval rating dropped 19 ''percentage points'', that means his support has dropped to 1%, which appears to be more accurate given Grayton's egregious policy decisions and the description of his campaign as having "imploded."<br />
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References in the title text:<br />
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*{{w|Tracy Morgan}} is an actor who plays himself in the TV Show {{w|30 Rock}}. He has been reprimanded for controversial comments on homosexuals and {{w|Sarah Palin}} (in separate incidents).<br />
*{{w|John Wilkes Booth}} is the person who assassinated {{w|Abraham Lincoln}}. He was a {{w|Confederate}} sympathizer and supported slavery.<br />
*"The {{w|Time Cube}} Guy" would be Gene Ray, also known as Otis E. Ray. He has a website known as Time Cube where he sets out his personal model of reality, which he calls Time Cube. He suggests that all of modern physics is wrong, in addition to claiming that religion is evil, specifically Christianity, and that the idea of family is poisoning children.<br />
*College Scholarships to Sexually Active Teens: Many people think adolescents should not engage in sexual activity, let alone encouraged to do so by college scholarships. This is the opposite of {{w|Abstinence-only sex education|abstinence programs}}, which encourage teens not to be sexually active until marriage.<br />
*Illegal immigrants who create room for themselves by killing a citizen: {{w|Illegal immigration to the United States|Illegal immigration}} is a highly controversial topic in the United States. One argument against illegal immigration is that illegal immigrants are taking jobs away from American citizens. Proponents of immigration assert that this is not the case, since more people in the overall economy creates jobs and brings in more tax revenue. Neither group would be in favor of illegal immigrants murdering citizens even though it would not result in a net gain or loss in population.<br />
*Graduated income tax based on penis size: Many men are sensitive about their penis size and would probably consider the measurement of their penises for tax assessment purposes an enormous embarrassment and invasion of privacy. Even the scenario in which those with relatively smaller penises would be levied less tax than those with larger penises would probably not be sufficient for them to accept this policy, and even if they did, those with larger penises would probably consider this policy to be unfair. And the alternative - a scenario in which ''larger'' penises pay less taxes - would be both unfair and incredibly demeaning.<br />
<br />
==Transcript==<br />
:[An average news anchor reading news copy of below average intelligence appears on a TV, with Cueball watching it in utter disgust.]<br />
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:News Anchor: Senator Grayton's campaign has imploded following the candidate's promise to give tax breaks to drunk drivers and to authorize the use of unmanned Predator drones in the War On Christmas. Grayton had been polling at 20%, but his support has since plunged by 19%.<br />
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:I hate the ambiguity created when people don't distinguish between percentages and percentage points.<br />
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{{comic discussion}}<br />
[[Category:Politics]]<br />
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]<br />
[[Category:Penis]]</div>108.162.217.191https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:1426:_Reduce_Your_Payments&diff=77485Talk:1426: Reduce Your Payments2014-10-18T23:15:41Z<p>108.162.217.191: answered NerillDP's question</p>
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<div>It's a chemical reduction. Here's the wiki link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reducing_agent[[Special:Contributions/199.27.133.109|199.27.133.109]] 04:25, 26 September 2014 (UTC)<br />
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This needs more help by a professional chemist... And I need to go to work... So if anyone continues clarification work - thanks, else I'll do a little more after work/afterwards[[User:Tier666|Tier666]] ([[User talk:Tier666|talk]]) 05:21, 26 September 2014 (UTC)<br />
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I tried to clear up some things, but I am not a chemestry expert either.. --[[User:Flai|Flai]] ([[User talk:Flai|talk]]) 06:31, 26 September 2014 (UTC)<br />
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Hints (just looked into lit a little bit): NaBH<sub>4</sub> would not really reduce the paper (make it vanish by reducing the cellulose to something like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorbitol ) but may reduce (and so "vanishing") the ink: http://www.jeb.co.in/journal_issues/200911_nov09/paper_05.pdf http://www.deepdyve.com/lp/de-gruyter/degradation-of-cellulose-by-sodium-borohydride-b1EI17tyhs --> You can use a little bit of NaBH<sub>4</sub> to make whiter paper[[User:Tier666|Tier666]] ([[User talk:Tier666|talk]]) 08:15, 26 September 2014 (UTC)<br />
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Google Sodium Borohydride + Paper and the majority of results are based on its use to bleach the pulp during manufacture. A quick search doesn't yield any obvious results on the effects on printed paper. --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 09:10, 26 September 2014 (UTC)<br />
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Look at that! My chemistry degree comes in handy for once! NaBH4 is used for lots of reductions in organic synthesis. The fact that he is using it on paper (an organic substance) doesn't seem to add to the comic in my opinion. NaBH4 is one of the strongest reducers, so I think it's more of an archetypal reference rather than a specific reference. My two cents. Also I fixed the explanation of reduction.<br />
[[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.169|173.245.54.169]] 09:18, 26 September 2014 (UTC)<br />
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If Black Hat is having trouble oxidizing the bill, might I suggest [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorine_trifluoride chlorine trifluoride]? {{unsigned ip|108.162.216.105}}<br />
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Or you can try the infamous Dioxygen Diflouride... [http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dioxygen_difluoride] {{unsigned ip|199.27.133.136}}<br />
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Can someone explain more explicitly what "improve the resulting paper's properties" means? What properties are changed and how does that change represent an improvement (sturdier, whiter, easier to fold, easier to get ink to bind to it, etc.)? [[User:Djbrasier|Djbrasier]] ([[User talk:Djbrasier|talk]]) 20:54, 26 September 2014 (UTC)<br />
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Generally for reductive bleaching for improved brightness in the pulp and paper industry. Often used but not as a rule after a peroxide (oxidative) bleaching step to get several more ISO points of brightness by reducing chromophores. Datasheet from one manufacturer: http://www.montchem.com/MontBrite1240.pdf {{unsigned ip|173.245.52.194}}<br />
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Wouldn't Mr. Pedantic suggest Black Hat's question to be "... REDUCING YOUR MORTGAGE BILL."? Would've made more sense to him given Black Hat's explanation. [[User:NerillDP|NerillDP]] ([[User talk:NerillDP|talk]]) 00:25, 30 September 2014 (UTC)<br />
Not necessarily. The payment appears to take the form of a paper check, checks are usually issued by a bank(1), and the paper on which they're printed is controlled by the company contracted to produce the checks (not necessarily the bank, but saying "your bank uses some really weird paper [for printing your checks]" is a reasonable thing to say). (1) To be super-pedantic, you can technically write a valid check on pretty much anything that will accept permanent writing, but getting a bank to accept it might be a little tricky.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.217.191|108.162.217.191]] 23:15, 18 October 2014 (UTC)</div>108.162.217.191