https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=Epsilon&feedformat=atomexplain xkcd - User contributions [en]2024-03-29T04:49:18ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.30.0https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:2271:_Grandpa_Jason_and_Grandpa_Chad&diff=187652Talk:2271: Grandpa Jason and Grandpa Chad2020-02-22T11:04:12Z<p>Epsilon: </p>
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Is the Title Text a callback to 2268 with the "no further research is needed" comment? [[User:Stickfigurefan|Stickfigurefan]] ([[User talk:Stickfigurefan|talk]]) 17:58, 21 February 2020 (UTC)<br />
*That was the first thing that came to my mind. Since researching when people named Jason and Chad became grandparents is far from a top research priority, one can indeed say that further research is not "needed". That said, though, I would have liked to have seen the female counterparts, to indicate what "Grandma" names are also coming into vogue now. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.195|162.158.74.195]] 18:05, 21 February 2020 (UTC)<br />
**Agree. I added a few sentences to that effect. To elaborate: Enough research has been done to support the main joke which is the incongruity between what specific names implied in the 70's and what they imply today. More specific information would not improve the joke. And, let's face it, would not be very interesting. [[User:Epsilon|Epsilon]] ([[User talk:Epsilon|talk]]) 11:04, 22 February 2020 (UTC)<br />
**Note: Should we explain *x* to any non-nerds (or, the non-nerd ?) reading this? For text rendered in plain ASCII the asterisks surrounding a word or a phrase imply that this text should have been rendered in bold. I.e. emphasized. This might not be obvious to everybody. [[User:Epsilon|Epsilon]] ([[User talk:Epsilon|talk]]) 11:04, 22 February 2020 (UTC)<br />
*Looks like I may have edited the page at the same time as someone else. Sorry about that! [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.148|108.162.216.148]] 18:41, 21 February 2020 (UTC)<br />
*Does someone know of -- and can add to the explanation -- a reason why Jason and Chad are coming into popularity as names? In Australia, Jason Donovan was an actor who played a lead character in the popular soap "Neighbours" alongside Kylie Minogue (which is why, in Australia, we'd be getting "Grandma Kylie" coming into vogue. [[User:DrSamCarter|DrSamCarter]] ([[User talk:DrSamCarter|talk]]) 20:51, 21 February 2020 (UTC)DrSamCarter<br />
**Well, to be precise, Jason and Chad came into popularity about 50 years ago, but I don't know why that happened at that time. While it's true that you should be seeing a bunch of "Grandma Kylie"s in Australia now, Kylie Minogue can't take the credit for that. She was born into a generation where the name was already popular. In 1970, Kylie was the 5th most popular name for baby girls in Australia, so Kylie Minogue, born in 1968, might have gone to school with a number of other Kylies, well before she joined the cast of "Neighbours" in 1986. The name Kylie didn't catch on in the U.S. until much later, so it'll be years before we see a significant number of "Grandma Kylie"s here. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.17|162.158.74.17]] 00:38, 22 February 2020 (UTC)<br />
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In case someone wants to do further research on The Netherlands, here's some data on first names popularity: https://www.meertens.knaw.nl/nvb/english --[[User:IByte|IByte]] ([[User talk:IByte|talk]]) 09:55, 22 February 2020 (UTC)</div>Epsilonhttps://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2271:_Grandpa_Jason_and_Grandpa_Chad&diff=1876512271: Grandpa Jason and Grandpa Chad2020-02-22T10:59:11Z<p>Epsilon: Further research not *needed* is itself a joke.</p>
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<div>{{comic<br />
| number = 2271<br />
| date = February 21, 2020<br />
| title = Grandpa Jason and Grandpa Chad<br />
| image = grandpa_jason_and_grandpa_chad.png<br />
| titletext = The AARP puts the average age of a first-time grandparent close to 50, and the CDC has some data. But I don't have first-parent age distributions for specific names, or generational first-child age correlations, so the dotted line is just a guess. Still, let's be honest: No further research is really *needed.*<br />
}}<br />
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==Explanation==<br />
{{incomplete|Created by a GRANDPA NAMED CHAD. Please mention here why this explanation isn't complete. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}<br />
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The comic contains three separate curves, with the x-axis being the date and the y-axis being the frequency of three separate sets of data: The number of people in the US with the names "Jason" and "Chad," and an estimate of the birth years of people that are becoming grandparents. The comic exists to show the significant overlap between these names and being a grandparent.<br />
<br />
Jason and {{w|Chad (slang)|Chad}} are names associated with stereotypical young, partying bros who couldn't care less about responsibility, so the idea that statistically some of them are now grandparents, who are stereotyped as being wise and responsible, is weird to say the least. [[2165: Millennials]] is similarly about how a label has outlived the demographic that it was used to describe.<br />
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The title text adds a caveat to the assertion, mentioning the lack of any real evidence for the distribution of ages of Grandparents, but stands firm in the conclusion that this is the final word on the fact that there are many people who are grandparents named Jason and Chad.<br />
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The title text ends with the text "No further research is really *needed,*" referencing [[2268: Further Research is Needed]]. This is also a joke in itself. The emphasis on *needed* is an admission that although more research is *possible*, it would be rather pointless.<br />
<br />
==Transcript==<br />
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}<br />
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A progression chart covering the period of years between 1950 to 1995. One line which is dotted begins low at the start, climbs, then steeply declines. Two solid lines begin in the early 1960s, rise almost concurrently, however one declines steadily while the other has a curve almost before the end of the chart. The lines show the following data: <br />
<br />
Birth years of people becoming grandparents this year (United States, very rough estimate) <br />
A dotted line which begins at 1950, rises to its peak at 1970, then steeply declines to zero by the late '70s.<br />
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Birth years of people named "Jason" and "Chad" (Social Security data)<br />
Chad: A solid line beginning at 1962, rises to its peak by 1975, then drops through the '80s and '90s. Jason crosses underneath it in 1985, but then re-crosses it in 1993.<br />
Jason: A solid line beginning at 1963, rises to its peak between 1977-80, then declines, dropping beneath Chad around 1985 but climbing above it again in 1993.<br />
<br />
Fun fact: We have now entered the era of "Grandpa Jason" and "Grandpa Chad."<br />
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{{comic discussion}}<br />
[[Category:Charts]]</div>Epsilonhttps://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:2197:_Game_Show&diff=179559Talk:2197: Game Show2019-09-09T07:36:44Z<p>Epsilon: Add reference to Expedition Robinson a.k.a. Survivor.</p>
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Suggestion for comic explanation: Black Hat does the things that Black Hat always does. {{unsigned|172.68.65.90}}<br />
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I'm unable to find a single instance of any game show ever asking this sort of question. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.142.161|172.68.142.161]] 22:35, 2 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
: The wording of the caption implies this is a new show which was not well thought out. And, as is usual for XKCD, completely fictional. However the QUESTION is an old and common thought experiment, seemingly to get to know a person better by finding out what they value. This is just suggesting somebody made a game show out of the question. Often, as the commenter below seems to have linked to, the question is specifically about what handful of musical albums you'd bring (in other words, what music would you not get sick of after hearing it a million times). [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 06:42, 7 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
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<br />
How about https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_Island_Discs?<br />
Desktop link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_Island_Discs<br />
<br />
Note that Desert Island Discs does have a restriction on the item to be taken to the desert island - it must be a luxury item of no practical use. (Note you also get the bible and the complete works of Shakespeare thrown in for nothing). [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.203|141.101.99.203]] 07:53, 3 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
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: Desert Island Discs is not a game show: it isn't competitive and has no prizes. It's more like a celebrity interview or chat show. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.64|162.158.34.64]] 13:39, 3 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
::The usual version of this question being asked on a game show is more like the "getting to know the contestants" trope, and could reasonably be considered to be a microcosm of the DID programme. [[User:OhFFS|OhFFS]] ([[User talk:OhFFS|talk]]) 15:36, 3 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
: The long running "Expedition Robinson" a.k.a. "Survivor" franchise does have the concept of a single personal item that each contestant may bring to the island. At least the original Swedish version does. I don't know about the 50+ other versions of the show. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivor_(franchise) and https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0264245/. [[User:Epsilon|Epsilon]] ([[User talk:Epsilon|talk]]) 07:36, 9 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
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I find myself wondering what Black Hat would do if he had the skeleton. Probably some kind over-elaborate scheme to mess with people? Or maybe it's just because there are so many people who'd be interested in the possibility of bringing it back from a desert island. [[User:Angel|Angel]] ([[User talk:Angel|talk]]) 01:07, 3 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
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At first it looks like Black Hat is playing a different type of game show game - to associate each item to the one before. The links are mode of transport, plane, relating to Earhart, internal structure, has a crown. Beyond that, items seem to simply be random and hard to obtain.--[[Special:Contributions/172.69.63.89|172.69.63.89]] 01:53, 3 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
*Well, when you consider that Queen Elizabeth is a big fan of this show... --[[User:Account|Account]] ([[User talk:Account|talk]]) 02:05, 3 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
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Seems like water skiing back home would also require skis. [[User:Miamiclay|Miamiclay]] ([[User talk:Miamiclay|talk]]) 06:25, 3 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
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Seems DgbrtBOT failed because of the interactivity of the [[How To]] release day comic [[2198: Throw]], which came out on a Tuesday, the release day! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 07:45, 3 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
:I have tried to create it, and the REDIRECT [[2198]] page as well. Hope it works... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 07:48, 3 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
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Is part of the joke also that in pedantic logic "any" can be more than one item? Which is why he lists so many things?[[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.66|162.158.90.66]] 08:40, 3 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
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Having the crown jewels would quite garanty him to return to continent, I guess, as UK would want to get it back.<br />
08:47, 3 September 2019 (UTC)Thy<br />
<br />
I disagree with some of the suggested motivations for Black Hat's items. I think in most cases he is simply listing things that he knows would be impossible to supply - not because he wants the fame of finding or owning them. Amelia Earhart's plane is lost to history, as is her skeleton (which would be subject to laws regarding the treatment of remains in any case, so it would be difficult to give this to Black Hat). The internal skeleton of the Statue of Liberty is currently holding up the Statue of Liberty; removing this would be difficult and probably illegal as it would destroy a historic landmark. The Crown Jewels belong to the British monarchy and cannot be sold, and stealing them would be difficult (and illegal). The audience of the show are people, not items, and would not consent to being taken to a deserted island. Greenland's ice sheet is too large and heavy to supply. Earth's North magnetic pole is a conceptual point, not an item. Transplanting an entire ocean into another one would be difficult (and probably illegal). [[User:Hawthorn|Hawthorn]] ([[User talk:Hawthorn|talk]]) 12:28, 3 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
According to the current article, if Black Hat was given the entire television audience to take with him, "then at least it would no longer be a deserted island, but of course it would be even more difficult to survive." But why? Does Black Hat seem the type to be disturbed by cannibalism? Wouldn't a crowded island make it easier (for at least one person) to survive? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.22|162.158.75.22]] 17:37, 4 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
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:I seriously doubt he would survive. Assume for a moment that you are not particularly interested in getting dumped on a remote island, expecting to fend for yourself. But black hat wanted to bring the entire audience. So you wake up one morning and realize you have been transported to said island. Then you happen to meet the person responsible for your predicament. Now, you yourself might be a good christian and meek as a lamb. But in a large audience you must assume there are a number of people that are not. [[User:Epsilon|Epsilon]] ([[User talk:Epsilon|talk]]) 07:14, 9 September 2019 (UTC)</div>Epsilonhttps://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:2197:_Game_Show&diff=179558Talk:2197: Game Show2019-09-09T07:14:03Z<p>Epsilon: Black hat would not survive.</p>
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<div><!--Please sign your posts with ~~~~ and don't delete this text. New comments should be added at the bottom.--><br />
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Suggestion for comic explanation: Black Hat does the things that Black Hat always does. {{unsigned|172.68.65.90}}<br />
<br />
I'm unable to find a single instance of any game show ever asking this sort of question. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.142.161|172.68.142.161]] 22:35, 2 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
: The wording of the caption implies this is a new show which was not well thought out. And, as is usual for XKCD, completely fictional. However the QUESTION is an old and common thought experiment, seemingly to get to know a person better by finding out what they value. This is just suggesting somebody made a game show out of the question. Often, as the commenter below seems to have linked to, the question is specifically about what handful of musical albums you'd bring (in other words, what music would you not get sick of after hearing it a million times). [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 06:42, 7 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
How about https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_Island_Discs?<br />
Desktop link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_Island_Discs<br />
<br />
Note that Desert Island Discs does have a restriction on the item to be taken to the desert island - it must be a luxury item of no practical use. (Note you also get the bible and the complete works of Shakespeare thrown in for nothing). [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.203|141.101.99.203]] 07:53, 3 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Desert Island Discs is not a game show: it isn't competitive and has no prizes. It's more like a celebrity interview or chat show. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.64|162.158.34.64]] 13:39, 3 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
::The usual version of this question being asked on a game show is more like the "getting to know the contestants" trope, and could reasonably be considered to be a microcosm of the DID programme. [[User:OhFFS|OhFFS]] ([[User talk:OhFFS|talk]]) 15:36, 3 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I find myself wondering what Black Hat would do if he had the skeleton. Probably some kind over-elaborate scheme to mess with people? Or maybe it's just because there are so many people who'd be interested in the possibility of bringing it back from a desert island. [[User:Angel|Angel]] ([[User talk:Angel|talk]]) 01:07, 3 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
At first it looks like Black Hat is playing a different type of game show game - to associate each item to the one before. The links are mode of transport, plane, relating to Earhart, internal structure, has a crown. Beyond that, items seem to simply be random and hard to obtain.--[[Special:Contributions/172.69.63.89|172.69.63.89]] 01:53, 3 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
*Well, when you consider that Queen Elizabeth is a big fan of this show... --[[User:Account|Account]] ([[User talk:Account|talk]]) 02:05, 3 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Seems like water skiing back home would also require skis. [[User:Miamiclay|Miamiclay]] ([[User talk:Miamiclay|talk]]) 06:25, 3 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Seems DgbrtBOT failed because of the interactivity of the [[How To]] release day comic [[2198: Throw]], which came out on a Tuesday, the release day! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 07:45, 3 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
:I have tried to create it, and the REDIRECT [[2198]] page as well. Hope it works... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 07:48, 3 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Is part of the joke also that in pedantic logic "any" can be more than one item? Which is why he lists so many things?[[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.66|162.158.90.66]] 08:40, 3 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Having the crown jewels would quite garanty him to return to continent, I guess, as UK would want to get it back.<br />
08:47, 3 September 2019 (UTC)Thy<br />
<br />
I disagree with some of the suggested motivations for Black Hat's items. I think in most cases he is simply listing things that he knows would be impossible to supply - not because he wants the fame of finding or owning them. Amelia Earhart's plane is lost to history, as is her skeleton (which would be subject to laws regarding the treatment of remains in any case, so it would be difficult to give this to Black Hat). The internal skeleton of the Statue of Liberty is currently holding up the Statue of Liberty; removing this would be difficult and probably illegal as it would destroy a historic landmark. The Crown Jewels belong to the British monarchy and cannot be sold, and stealing them would be difficult (and illegal). The audience of the show are people, not items, and would not consent to being taken to a deserted island. Greenland's ice sheet is too large and heavy to supply. Earth's North magnetic pole is a conceptual point, not an item. Transplanting an entire ocean into another one would be difficult (and probably illegal). [[User:Hawthorn|Hawthorn]] ([[User talk:Hawthorn|talk]]) 12:28, 3 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
According to the current article, if Black Hat was given the entire television audience to take with him, "then at least it would no longer be a deserted island, but of course it would be even more difficult to survive." But why? Does Black Hat seem the type to be disturbed by cannibalism? Wouldn't a crowded island make it easier (for at least one person) to survive? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.22|162.158.75.22]] 17:37, 4 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I seriously doubt he would survive. Assume for a moment that you are not particularly interested in getting dumped on a remote island, expecting to fend for yourself. But black hat wanted to bring the entire audience. So you wake up one morning and realize you have been transported to said island. Then you happen to meet the person responsible for your predicament. Now, you yourself might be a good christian and meek as a lamb. But in a large audience you must assume there are a number of people that are not. [[User:Epsilon|Epsilon]] ([[User talk:Epsilon|talk]]) 07:14, 9 September 2019 (UTC)</div>Epsilonhttps://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:1988:_Containers&diff=156664Talk:1988: Containers2018-05-05T07:31:27Z<p>Epsilon: Reply to 172.68.54.106</p>
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<div><!--Please sign your posts with ~~~~ and don't delete this text. New comments should be added at the bottom.--><br />
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Pretty much a description of my social interactions ... [[User:Cosmogoblin|Cosmogoblin]] ([[User talk:Cosmogoblin|talk]]) 17:51, 2 May 2018 (UTC)<br />
:Pretty much a description of all my "useful" programs. {{unsigned|Linker}}<br />
<br />
I feel the thrust of this comic is partly “people use docker because they don’t know how to do things properly”; notably such people get tasks done easier and faster, but their work involves wasting a lot of computing reaources to do small tasks inside entire emulated systems. Agree? Disagree? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.153|162.158.62.153]] 18:59, 2 May 2018 (UTC)<br />
:Agree. --[[User:Joshupetersen|Joshupetersen]] ([[User talk:Joshupetersen|talk]]) 15:55, 3 May 2018 (UTC)<br />
:Agree! [[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.184|108.162.237.184]] 17:08, 3 May 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I don't know if its just docker, almost any time I've gone to build mobile anything the API needs new libraries, their "secure" connecting functions must be used, or some other blackbox MUST be /glued/ to my work. If I don't stay on top of every platform, this in and of itself is a head ache I can't imagine what it'd be like if I had to learn and comply with the content of these libraries. {{unsigned ip|172.69.90.40}}<br />
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When did any tablet with a browser not support <tt><nowiki><frame></nowiki></tt>s and <tt><nowiki><iframe></nowiki></tt>s? And for that matter why are docker containers with kubernetes better than server images with a load balancer? I asked one large-shop sysadmin who had transitioned to the former from the latter, and he said, "There really aren't many differences but I feel like I'm ready for microservices." [[Special:Contributions/172.68.34.52|172.68.34.52]] 22:50, 2 May 2018 (UTC)<br />
:The issue as I see it is to get the two apps to both run simultaneously and appear side by side, which probably involves either writing code to control the window manager or getting the existing apps to output to an image that can be drawn on screen. I'm not a mobile developer, but my guess is that this would be quite difficult for a novice programmer.[[User:Probably not Douglas Hofstadter|Probably not Douglas Hofstadter]] ([[User talk:Probably not Douglas Hofstadter|talk]]) 23:13, 3 May 2018 (UTC)<br />
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For some reason, this really, really, REALLY feels like it's a continuation of 1987. Agree? Disagree? Also, the 'wasting a lot of computing resources to do small tasks inside entire emulated systems' does not feel like valid criticism, since they are just walled-in processes sharing the same kernel (and everything below). Firing up full-blown separate VMs for things that could just as well run in containers is the real wasteful choice IMHO. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.238.70|162.158.238.70]] 07:29, 3 May 2018 (UTC)<br />
:Agree. 1987 shows how problematic Python can be due to its lack of a well thought out version control. How can you avoid this mess? Docker! It isn't the only way, but IMHO the most elegant solution. And yes, I have created docker containers where the sole purpose was to avoid contaminating an existing Python installation. [[User:Epsilon|Epsilon]] ([[User talk:Epsilon|talk]]) 05:12, 4 May 2018 (UTC)<br />
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The (en)light(ening)est (co)processes are started with fork() and exec(). [[Special:Contributions/172.68.34.52|172.68.34.52]] 22:20, 3 May 2018 (UTC)<br />
: Don't get mobbed by the docker marketers! I guess a lot of people use Docker today, but to me the comic reads as a criticism. I feel the real joy of programming is diving deep into components to learn how they work and connecting them in the most elegant, efficient ways possible (real 'hacking'). Using scripts, macros, and containers does not demonstrate to me an understanding of the real function of the components being used, and working without this understanding is inevitably going to lead to unexpected behavior somewhere later (problems, bugs, vulnerabilities) because you don't really know what your pieces are doing. I think the push for people to ignore these things is causing a 'dumbing down' of software workers that we should resist. I think a great use of containers is security isolation or build environment testing ... not software design. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.54.106|172.68.54.106]] 10:51, 4 May 2018 (UTC)<br />
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:: I agree about the "real joy" of getting to understand how some software works. Just like with mountain climbing. Using a helicopter to get to the top is much simpler and much more convenient. ''It also has a higher chance of success.'' But it sort of removes the joy. On the other hand, if you do programming for a living you might need to choose the helicopter. Your comment about "really know what your pieces are doing" is absolutely true. But note the wording here: ''what'' and not necessarily ''how''. If you need to know that module X and module Y are difficult to combine because they were built against different versions of library Z then you have gone too far. [[User:Epsilon|Epsilon]] ([[User talk:Epsilon|talk]]) 07:31, 5 May 2018 (UTC)<br />
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Is it worth adding that "achieved enlightenment" is probably a reference to http://www.thecodelesscode.com/?<br />
<br />
The idea behind docker is that you do ''not'' glue together small code snippets. Whether from StackOverflow or elsewhere. What you are gluing together is in effect entire machines with software already installed. You normally don't know or care about any details finer than that. Not even which operating system the code was written for, which computer language it was written in, or whether the software has some odd and specific requirements about what else is installed on that machine. It is true that many programmers that copy snippets from StackOverflow don't really understand what those snippets are doing. But if you view this comic as an explanation of what Docker is all about, a reference to "copying small code snippets" seems to miss the point. [[User:Epsilon|Epsilon]] ([[User talk:Epsilon|talk]]) 04:54, 4 May 2018 (UTC)</div>Epsilonhttps://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:1988:_Containers&diff=156583Talk:1988: Containers2018-05-04T05:12:56Z<p>Epsilon: Agree with the reference to 1987.</p>
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<div><!--Please sign your posts with ~~~~ and don't delete this text. New comments should be added at the bottom.--><br />
<br />
Pretty much a description of my social interactions ... [[User:Cosmogoblin|Cosmogoblin]] ([[User talk:Cosmogoblin|talk]]) 17:51, 2 May 2018 (UTC)<br />
:Pretty much a description of all my "useful" programs. {{unsigned|Linker}}<br />
<br />
I feel the thrust of this comic is partly “people use docker because they don’t know how to do things properly”; notably such people get tasks done easier and faster, but their work involves wasting a lot of computing reaources to do small tasks inside entire emulated systems. Agree? Disagree? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.153|162.158.62.153]] 18:59, 2 May 2018 (UTC)<br />
:Agree. --[[User:Joshupetersen|Joshupetersen]] ([[User talk:Joshupetersen|talk]]) 15:55, 3 May 2018 (UTC)<br />
:Agree! [[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.184|108.162.237.184]] 17:08, 3 May 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I don't know if its just docker, almost any time I've gone to build mobile anything the API needs new libraries, their "secure" connecting functions must be used, or some other blackbox MUST be /glued/ to my work. If I don't stay on top of every platform, this in and of itself is a head ache I can't imagine what it'd be like if I had to learn and comply with the content of these libraries. {{unsigned ip|172.69.90.40}}<br />
<br />
When did any tablet with a browser not support <tt><nowiki><frame></nowiki></tt>s and <tt><nowiki><iframe></nowiki></tt>s? And for that matter why are docker containers with kubernetes better than server images with a load balancer? I asked one large-shop sysadmin who had transitioned to the former from the latter, and he said, "There really aren't many differences but I feel like I'm ready for microservices." [[Special:Contributions/172.68.34.52|172.68.34.52]] 22:50, 2 May 2018 (UTC)<br />
:The issue as I see it is to get the two apps to both run simultaneously and appear side by side, which probably involves either writing code to control the window manager or getting the existing apps to output to an image that can be drawn on screen. I'm not a mobile developer, but my guess is that this would be quite difficult for a novice programmer.[[User:Probably not Douglas Hofstadter|Probably not Douglas Hofstadter]] ([[User talk:Probably not Douglas Hofstadter|talk]]) 23:13, 3 May 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
For some reason, this really, really, REALLY feels like it's a continuation of 1987. Agree? Disagree? Also, the 'wasting a lot of computing resources to do small tasks inside entire emulated systems' does not feel like valid criticism, since they are just walled-in processes sharing the same kernel (and everything below). Firing up full-blown separate VMs for things that could just as well run in containers is the real wasteful choice IMHO. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.238.70|162.158.238.70]] 07:29, 3 May 2018 (UTC)<br />
:Agree. 1987 shows how problematic Python can be due to its lack of a well thought out version control. How can you avoid this mess? Docker! It isn't the only way, but IMHO the most elegant solution. And yes, I have created docker containers where the sole purpose was to avoid contaminating an existing Python installation. [[User:Epsilon|Epsilon]] ([[User talk:Epsilon|talk]]) 05:12, 4 May 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The (en)light(ening)est (co)processes are started with fork() and exec(). [[Special:Contributions/172.68.34.52|172.68.34.52]] 22:20, 3 May 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Is it worth adding that "achieved enlightenment" is probably a reference to http://www.thecodelesscode.com/?<br />
<br />
The idea behind docker is that you do ''not'' glue together small code snippets. Whether from StackOverflow or elsewhere. What you are gluing together is in effect entire machines with software already installed. You normally don't know or care about any details finer than that. Not even which operating system the code was written for, which computer language it was written in, or whether the software has some odd and specific requirements about what else is installed on that machine. It is true that many programmers that copy snippets from StackOverflow don't really understand what those snippets are doing. But if you view this comic as an explanation of what Docker is all about, a reference to "copying small code snippets" seems to miss the point. [[User:Epsilon|Epsilon]] ([[User talk:Epsilon|talk]]) 04:54, 4 May 2018 (UTC)</div>Epsilonhttps://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:1988:_Containers&diff=156582Talk:1988: Containers2018-05-04T04:54:27Z<p>Epsilon: Docker is not about gluing together small snippets.</p>
<hr />
<div><!--Please sign your posts with ~~~~ and don't delete this text. New comments should be added at the bottom.--><br />
<br />
Pretty much a description of my social interactions ... [[User:Cosmogoblin|Cosmogoblin]] ([[User talk:Cosmogoblin|talk]]) 17:51, 2 May 2018 (UTC)<br />
:Pretty much a description of all my "useful" programs. {{unsigned|Linker}}<br />
<br />
I feel the thrust of this comic is partly “people use docker because they don’t know how to do things properly”; notably such people get tasks done easier and faster, but their work involves wasting a lot of computing reaources to do small tasks inside entire emulated systems. Agree? Disagree? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.153|162.158.62.153]] 18:59, 2 May 2018 (UTC)<br />
:Agree. --[[User:Joshupetersen|Joshupetersen]] ([[User talk:Joshupetersen|talk]]) 15:55, 3 May 2018 (UTC)<br />
:Agree! [[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.184|108.162.237.184]] 17:08, 3 May 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I don't know if its just docker, almost any time I've gone to build mobile anything the API needs new libraries, their "secure" connecting functions must be used, or some other blackbox MUST be /glued/ to my work. If I don't stay on top of every platform, this in and of itself is a head ache I can't imagine what it'd be like if I had to learn and comply with the content of these libraries. {{unsigned ip|172.69.90.40}}<br />
<br />
When did any tablet with a browser not support <tt><nowiki><frame></nowiki></tt>s and <tt><nowiki><iframe></nowiki></tt>s? And for that matter why are docker containers with kubernetes better than server images with a load balancer? I asked one large-shop sysadmin who had transitioned to the former from the latter, and he said, "There really aren't many differences but I feel like I'm ready for microservices." [[Special:Contributions/172.68.34.52|172.68.34.52]] 22:50, 2 May 2018 (UTC)<br />
:The issue as I see it is to get the two apps to both run simultaneously and appear side by side, which probably involves either writing code to control the window manager or getting the existing apps to output to an image that can be drawn on screen. I'm not a mobile developer, but my guess is that this would be quite difficult for a novice programmer.[[User:Probably not Douglas Hofstadter|Probably not Douglas Hofstadter]] ([[User talk:Probably not Douglas Hofstadter|talk]]) 23:13, 3 May 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
For some reason, this really, really, REALLY feels like it's a continuation of 1987. Agree? Disagree? Also, the 'wasting a lot of computing resources to do small tasks inside entire emulated systems' does not feel like valid criticism, since they are just walled-in processes sharing the same kernel (and everything below). Firing up full-blown separate VMs for things that could just as well run in containers is the real wasteful choice IMHO. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.238.70|162.158.238.70]] 07:29, 3 May 2018 (UTC)<br />
:The (en)light(ening)est (co)processes are started with fork() and exec(). [[Special:Contributions/172.68.34.52|172.68.34.52]] 22:20, 3 May 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Is it worth adding that "achieved enlightenment" is probably a reference to http://www.thecodelesscode.com/?<br />
<br />
The idea behind docker is that you do ''not'' glue together small code snippets. Whether from StackOverflow or elsewhere. What you are gluing together is in effect entire machines with software already installed. You normally don't know or care about any details finer than that. Not even which operating system the code was written for, which computer language it was written in, or whether the software has some odd and specific requirements about what else is installed on that machine. It is true that many programmers that copy snippets from StackOverflow don't really understand what those snippets are doing. But if you view this comic as an explanation of what Docker is all about, a reference to "copying small code snippets" seems to miss the point. [[User:Epsilon|Epsilon]] ([[User talk:Epsilon|talk]]) 04:54, 4 May 2018 (UTC)</div>Epsilonhttps://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1988:_Containers&diff=1565671988: Containers2018-05-03T06:38:08Z<p>Epsilon: Fix formatting error in last update.</p>
<hr />
<div>{{comic<br />
| number = 1988<br />
| date = May 2, 2018<br />
| title = Containers<br />
| image = containers.png<br />
| titletext = All services are microservices if you ignore most of their features.<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Explanation==<br />
{{incomplete|Created by SOME GLUED TOGETHER SERVERS and updated by a DOCKER AFICIONADO. Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}<br />
<br />
{{w|Docker (software)|Docker}} is a computer program that performs operating-system-level virtualization also known as containerization. It is developed by Docker, Inc. <br />
<br />
White Hat was complaining about how everyone was using Docker. With the implied statement that he did not understand what all the fuss was about.<br />
<br />
Cueball explains the fundamental idea behind Docker. He complains about how difficult it can be to combine two programs and having them work together as one. This is something all programmers can relate to. His specific example is to get two separate programs to display side by side on a tablet.<br />
<br />
The main joke is that Cueball's solution is a surprising twist to solving the problem. Instead of writing a lot of complicated code, he sidesteps the problem elegantly by using two separate devices and literally gluing them together.<br />
<br />
Another joke is that he uses literal glue and literally purchases two separate computers. Docker uses the same general idea but the "glue" and the "multiple computers" are done in software.<br />
<br />
Cueball states that he has achieved enlightenment when he solved the problem by sidestepping it.<br />
<br />
White hat at first does not seem to understand the enlightenment since Cueball did not actually learn anything about the programs he was working on. When White hat after a pause says "Ok, fair" this suggests that White hat has now understood what Cueball means. A good programmer doesn't necessarily need to be able to write programs or even understand how they work. Provided that he has the skills needed to combine existing programs to solve his tasks.<br />
<br />
The title text makes a joke about developers writing code for use in a Docker environment. The ideal is to only write "microservices" which are modules that do just one thing and does that well. The joke here is that even when a module does many different things, you can pretend it is a "microservice" by just ignoring all its features but one.<br />
<br />
==Transcript==<br />
:[White Hat is sitting at a laptop. Cueball is standing behind him.]<br />
:White Hat: Man, Docker is being used for <i>everything</i>.<br />
:White Hat: I don't know how I feel about it.<br />
:Cueball: Story time!<br />
<br />
:[Cueball is standing by himself.]<br />
:Cueball: Once, long ago, I wanted to use an old tablet as a wall display.<br />
<br />
:[A picture of Cueball's imagined tablet with two applications open side by side. The app on the left is "LiveCam".]<br />
:Cueball: I had an app and a calendar webpage that I wanted to show side by side, but the OS didn't have split-screen support.<br />
:Cueball: So I decided to build my own app.<br />
<br />
:[White Hat and Cueball as before, but White Hat has turned to face Cueball.]<br />
:Cueball: I downloaded the SDK and the IDE, registered as a developer, and started reading the language's docs.<br />
<br />
:[A picture of two smartphones glued together side by side, held on a backing board. The same two applications shown earlier are open on different phones.]<br />
:Cueball: ...Then I realized it would be '''<i>way</i>''' easier to get two smaller phones on eBay and glue them together.<br />
:Cueball: On that day, I achieved software enlightenment.<br />
<br />
:[White Hat and Cueball still facing each other, with White Hat's arm resting on the back of the chair.]<br />
:White Hat: But you never learned to write software.<br />
:Cueball: No, I just learned how to glue together stuff that I don't understand.<br />
:White Hat: I...OK, fair.<br />
<br />
{{comic discussion}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Comics featuring White Hat]]<br />
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]<br />
[[Category:Comics with color]]</div>Epsilonhttps://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1988:_Containers&diff=1565661988: Containers2018-05-03T06:34:12Z<p>Epsilon: Edited main description, by somebody very familiar with Docker.</p>
<hr />
<div>{{comic<br />
| number = 1988<br />
| date = May 2, 2018<br />
| title = Containers<br />
| image = containers.png<br />
| titletext = All services are microservices if you ignore most of their features.<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Explanation==<br />
{{incomplete|Created by SOME GLUED TOGETHER SERVERS and updated by a DOCKER AFICIONADO. Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}<br />
<br />
{{w|Docker (software)|Docker}} is a computer program that performs operating-system-level virtualization also known as containerization. It is developed by Docker, Inc. White Hat was complaining about how everyone was using Docker, and then Cueball went on about how he wanted to use a tablet as a w<br />
<br />
virtualization also known as containerization. It is developed by Docker, Inc.<br />
<br />
White Hat was complaining about how everyone was using Docker. With the implied statement that he did not understand what all the fuss was about.<br />
<br />
Cueball explains the fundamental idea behind Docker. He complains about how difficult it can be to combine two programs and having them work together as one. This is something all programmers can relate to. His specific example is to get two separate programs to display side by side on a tablet.<br />
<br />
The main joke is that Cueball's solution is a surprising twist to solving the problem. Instead of writing a lot of complicated code, he sidesteps the problem elegantly by using two separate devices and literally gluing them together.<br />
<br />
Another joke is that he uses literal glue and literally purchases two separate computers. Docker uses the same general idea but the "glue" and the "multiple computers" are done in software.<br />
<br />
Cueball states that he has achieved enlightenment when he solved the problem by sidestepping it.<br />
<br />
White hat at first does not seem to understand the enlightenment since Cueball did not actually learn anything about the programs he was working on. When White hat after a pause says "Ok, fair" this suggests that White hat has now understood what Cueball means. A good programmer doesn't necessarily need to be able to write programs or even understand how they work. Provided that he has the skills needed to combine existing programs to solve his tasks.<br />
<br />
The title text makes a joke about developers writing code for use in a Docker environment. The ideal is to only write "microservices" which are modules that do just one thing and does that well. The joke here is that even when a module does many different things, you can pretend it is a "microservice" by just ignoring all its features but one.<br />
<br />
==Transcript==<br />
:[White Hat is sitting at a laptop. Cueball is standing behind him.]<br />
:White Hat: Man, Docker is being used for <i>everything</i>.<br />
:White Hat: I don't know how I feel about it.<br />
:Cueball: Story time!<br />
<br />
:[Cueball is standing by himself.]<br />
:Cueball: Once, long ago, I wanted to use an old tablet as a wall display.<br />
<br />
:[A picture of Cueball's imagined tablet with two applications open side by side. The app on the left is "LiveCam".]<br />
:Cueball: I had an app and a calendar webpage that I wanted to show side by side, but the OS didn't have split-screen support.<br />
:Cueball: So I decided to build my own app.<br />
<br />
:[White Hat and Cueball as before, but White Hat has turned to face Cueball.]<br />
:Cueball: I downloaded the SDK and the IDE, registered as a developer, and started reading the language's docs.<br />
<br />
:[A picture of two smartphones glued together side by side, held on a backing board. The same two applications shown earlier are open on different phones.]<br />
:Cueball: ...Then I realized it would be '''<i>way</i>''' easier to get two smaller phones on eBay and glue them together.<br />
:Cueball: On that day, I achieved software enlightenment.<br />
<br />
:[White Hat and Cueball still facing each other, with White Hat's arm resting on the back of the chair.]<br />
:White Hat: But you never learned to write software.<br />
:Cueball: No, I just learned how to glue together stuff that I don't understand.<br />
:White Hat: I...OK, fair.<br />
<br />
{{comic discussion}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Comics featuring White Hat]]<br />
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]<br />
[[Category:Comics with color]]</div>Epsilonhttps://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1883:_Supervillain_Plan&diff=1448151883: Supervillain Plan2017-08-31T07:29:48Z<p>Epsilon: Add reference to the 1999 terrorist attack that went wrong due to time zones.</p>
<hr />
<div>{{comic<br />
| number = 1883<br />
| date = August 30, 2017<br />
| title = Supervillain Plan<br />
| image = supervillain_plan.png<br />
| titletext = Someday, some big historical event will happen during the DST changeover, and all the tick-tock articles chronicling how it unfolded will have to include a really annoying explanation next to their timelines.<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Explanation==<br />
{{incomplete|First draft, please help to expand. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}<br />
<br />
In this comic [[Black Hat]] is a {{w|supervillain}}, befitting his {{w|Black hat|character}}. He plans to use {{w|Unmanned aerial vehicle|drones}} and explosives to move the entire State of California into the Pacific, a la {{w|Lex Luthor}} in the 1978 ''{{w|Superman (1978 film)|Superman}}'' movie.<br />
<br />
His {{w|Henchman|henchmen}} are [[Cueball]] and [[Megan]]. The latter appears to be a programmer who does not want to have the mission (and hence the drones' coding) to account for time/date discrepancies such as {{w|time zone}}s and {{w|daylight saving time}}, which would be a factor if the event took place on the wrong date or the landmasses were pushed too far apart. (Though by coding the drones on UTC, the drones would not need to change time zones, excepting displaying the local time for some reason, which would likely be unneeded.)<br />
<br />
In computer programming, working with dates and times is often considered one of the more complicated tasks. Think about {{w|Leap year|leap years}} or {{w|Leap second|leap seconds}}, the non existing {{w|Year zero|year zero}} which even more worse for scientists does exist in {{w|Astronomical year numbering|astronomical calendars}}, or the {{w|Year 2000 problem|Y2K}} and {{w|Year 2038 problem|year 2038}} problem. Nevertheless in this comic there is only a ''time zone problem'' mentioned. To handle this the {{w|tz database}}, also known as ''tzdata'', provides all relevant information for every country back to 1970 and, less accurate, before. But it's still up to the programmer to use this data in useful ways.<br />
<br />
Supervillains have reason to fear time zone issues. In 1999, two coordinated car bombings ended up killing the terrorists transporting the bombs when they exploded one hour early. Details explained e.g. on the [http://darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1999-38.html Darwin Awards] site.<br />
<br />
Using time zones and DST can give seemingly nonsensical results when used improperly. For example, a flight going west might leave at 02:00pm and reach its destination at 03:00pm while the reverse flight will leave at 02:00pm and arrive at 05:00pm. In both cases, the travel time is two hours, but the one hour difference between the two timezones makes it seem otherwise. You might even find yourself arriving at your destination at an earlier time than your departure! DST can also makes a given time mean two different things, if after 01:59am you go back to 01:00 am, 01:30am can either be one hour after 00:30am, or one hour before 02:30am. Or in the reverse change, some dates don't actually exist, like 02:30 when going straight from 01:59 to 03:00. Humans often avoid this issue by being in only one place at the same time, or by sleeping when the DST changes happen, but computer communications often span over large distances, and drones don't need to sleep at night. Megan wants to make sure she won't have to deal with the difficult problem of communication between drones and other systems with those issues, where a single poorly communicated date can have disastrous effects (although far less disastrous than moving California into the sea).<br />
<br />
California is currently located entirely within the {{w|UTC−08:00|UTC-8}} time zone (at standard time {{w|Pacific Time Zone|PST}}, while in summer PDT is at {{w|UTC−07:00|UTC-7}}). But after Black Hat's actions California is at risk of floating West into the next time zone at {{w|UTC−09:00|UTC-9}}.<br />
<br />
However, in reality, time zones in the United States are determined by [https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=6a1a124065df269aff9faa2340478852&node=pt49.1.71&rgn=div5#se49.1.71_12 Department of Transportation regulations], and California's time zone is not defined based on its longitude. Consequently, even if California were pushed out to sea, its time zone would remain the same unless the Department of Transportation issued a regulation otherwise, so Megan can rest easy. (On the other hand, Black Hat could alter the time zone of any of the East Coast states except Maine if his drones could push the state east of 67°30″ W. longitude, since the Eastern Time Zone's eastern boundary is mostly based on longitude, except as to Maine.)<br />
<br />
Note: Megan should be happy Black Hat hasn't planned [https://www.cntraveler.com/stories/2012-11-12/daylight-saving-donut-arizona-ken-jennings-maphead to involve Arizona in his scheme].<br />
<br />
A [https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tick_tock "tick tock article"] is a term in journalism for a step by step account of an event or timeline, such as [https://web.archive.org/web/20111001222353/http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/7033428/breakdown-wednesday-games this one recounting the end of the 2011 MLB regular season]. Such an article published for an event during the change to or from Daylight Savings Time would need to account for the changeover, making the timeline confusing for those unaware of the switch.<br />
<br />
==Transcript==<br />
:[On the left of this single panel comic Black Hat sits on a high throne, showing a fist, and looking down to Cueball and Magan who stand in front of him on the right.]<br />
<br />
:Black Hat: ... then, after our drones take control of the cities, we will detonate the devices. California will break off from the mainland and drift out to sea!<br />
:Megan: How far out to sea? Will it put any of the cities in the UTC-9 time zone?<br />
:Black Hat: What? I don't know.<br />
:Megan: One request: Can we make sure this doesn't happen during the daylight saving changeover?<br />
<br />
:[Caption below the panel:]<br />
:You can tell when someone's been a programmer for a while because they develop a deep-seated fear of time zone problems.<br />
<br />
==Trivia==<br />
*Different time zones often confuse people. When [[xkcd]] comics are released on Monday, Wednesday, or Friday early as possible at 00:00 according to [[Randall]]'s home at Eastern Time (EST/EDT) it is still the day before in the most regions of the United States further to the west. In California (PST/PDT) that would be 21:00 in the evening before. Nevertheless most comics are released later when the entire US is at the same day. This particular comic was released at 13:00 UTC, which was 09:00 EDT or 06:00 PDT.<br />
<br />
{{comic discussion}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]<br />
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]<br />
[[Category:Comics featuring Black Hat]]<br />
[[Category:Drones]]<br />
[[Category:Daylight saving time]]<br />
[[Category:Programming]]</div>Epsilon