1292: Pi vs. Tau - Revision history

Geometrist: /* Explanation */

2026-04-02T07:18:36Z

‎Explanation

78.144.255.82: A w-template version.

2025-12-12T21:20:25Z

A w-template version.

R128: /* Trivia */ move link

2025-12-12T20:01:40Z

‎Trivia: move link

R128: /* Trivia */ As in, pie is round and yummy? not relevant, or I just don't get it - pau doesn't seem pie-like in other ways

2025-12-12T20:00:50Z

‎Trivia: As in, pie is round and yummy? not relevant, or I just don't get it - pau doesn't seem pie-like in other ways

162.158.88.152: /* Math details */

2025-05-01T12:16:35Z

‎Math details

CalibansCreations: /* Math details */

2025-04-01T10:33:09Z

‎Math details

CalibansCreations: /* Explanation */

2025-04-01T10:30:39Z

‎Explanation

GmRionWdTSEHT at 20:58, 31 December 2024

2024-12-31T20:58:49Z

CalibansCreations: /* Explanation */

2024-10-11T13:38:42Z

‎Explanation

172.71.150.128: Update broken link

2024-08-22T04:58:46Z

Update broken link

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 Some consider pi to be the wrong convention and are in favor of using tau as ''the'' circle constant; see the [http://tauday.com/tau-manifesto Tau Manifesto], which was inspired by the article "[http://www.math.utah.edu/~palais/pi.html Pi is wrong!]" by mathematician Robert Palais and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iUh_CSjaSw publicized by Vi Hart] (video was made private).  Others consider proponents of tau to be foolish and remain loyal to pi (see the [https://proper-pi-manifesto.com/ Pi Manifesto]). Of course, regardless of which convention is used, the change is merely in notation — the underlying mathematics remains unaltered. Still, the choice of pi vs. tau can affect the clarity of equations, analogies between different equations, and how easy various subjects are to teach.
-Most people know π (pi) by the approximation 3.14, but do not know τ (tau) which, by definition, is twice as large as pi. Randall is suggesting using "pau", which is a {{w|portmanteau}} of "pi" and "tau", as a number situated, appropriately enough, halfway between pi and tau, i.e. 1.5 pi or 0.75 tau. But of course his number would be inconvenient, as this value does not naturally turn up when working with circles or other mathematical constructs, so there are no commonly used formulas that would use pau.
+Most people know π (pi) by the approximation 3.14, but do not know τ (tau) which, by definition, is twice as large as pi. Randall is suggesting using "pau", which is a {{w|portmanteau}} of "pi" and "tau", as a number situated, appropriately enough, halfway between pi and tau, i.e. 1.5 pi or 0.75 tau. But of course his number would be inconvenient, as this value does not naturally turn up when working with circles or other mathematical constructs, so there are no commonly used formulas that would use pau (4.7123889803 8468985769 3965074919 2543262957 5409906265 8731462416 8884617246 0942931349 7942052238 0131756019).
 The title text claims that pau can be approximated by e+2, as both values are roughly 4.71 — a similarity that holds little since it requires another irrational constant, {{w|E (mathematical constant)|e}} (although knowing the value of pau is somewhat more helpful in remembering e to 2 digits.){{Citation needed}} It also attributes the nickname "Devil's Ratio" to pau, due to the sequence {{w|Number of the Beast|666}} supposedly appearing four times in the first 200 digits of pau when expressed in the {{w|octal}} base. However, this is not the case, and was likely due to an error in the computer system used by WolframAlpha; for more details see below.
 The tau vs. pi controversy was later mentioned in [[2520: Symbols]].

@@ Line 51: / Line 51: @@
 *Also, note that "pau" is the Portuguese word for "stick", as well as, in Brazilian Portuguese, a very common slang for "penis". This may add to the humor (although childishly) for Portuguese-speaking readers, though it is fair to presume that it was not Randall's intention to do so.
 *Pau is a [https://wildwoodhealth.com/pau-chinese-steam-buns/ Chinese dish], a filled bun which is round and yummy{{Citation needed}}.
-*Pau is also [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pau,_Pyr%C3%A9n%C3%A9es-Atlantiques a city of south-western France].
+*Pau is also {{w|Pau, Pyrénées-Atlantiques|a city of south-western France}}.
 *Finally, "pau" means "finished" in Hawaiian.

@@ Line 51: / Line 51: @@
 *Also, note that "pau" is the Portuguese word for "stick", as well as, in Brazilian Portuguese, a very common slang for "penis". This may add to the humor (although childishly) for Portuguese-speaking readers, though it is fair to presume that it was not Randall's intention to do so.
 *Pau is a [https://wildwoodhealth.com/pau-chinese-steam-buns/ Chinese dish], a filled bun which is round and yummy{{Citation needed}}.
-*[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pau,_Pyr%C3%A9n%C3%A9es-Atlantiques Pau] is also a city of south-western France.
+*Pau is also [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pau,_Pyr%C3%A9n%C3%A9es-Atlantiques a city of south-western France].
 *Finally, "pau" means "finished" in Hawaiian.

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 *Note that "pau" is Catalan for peace, which might make it a good solution for the pi/tau dispute.
 *Also, note that "pau" is the Portuguese word for "stick", as well as, in Brazilian Portuguese, a very common slang for "penis". This may add to the humor (although childishly) for Portuguese-speaking readers, though it is fair to presume that it was not Randall's intention to do so.
-*Pau is a Chinese dish, a filled bun which is round and yummy{{Citation needed}}, just like pie.{{actual citation needed}}
+*Pau is a [https://wildwoodhealth.com/pau-chinese-steam-buns/ Chinese dish], a filled bun which is round and yummy{{Citation needed}}.
 *[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pau,_Pyr%C3%A9n%C3%A9es-Atlantiques Pau] is also a city of south-western France.
 *Finally, "pau" means "finished" in Hawaiian.

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 <pre>
 .554574376314416445676661714336617116240444076666510533533077631151350452060436452476274022621206136310000177621674175071262255702044274154476005744176002676623042402346036604733130522524127534777714554305412763636566643022106616734723661726160312772574551366370203115523402704104015532221722772357666</pre>
-Expansion that long indeed does contain 666 (the {{w|Number of the beast|number of the beast}}) four times (with one instance as 6666). It also contains 0000, 222, 444, and 7777, but they only appear once in a run.
+This expansion does indeed contain 666 (the {{w|Number of the beast|number of the beast}}) four times (with one instance as 6666). It also contains 0000, 222, 444, and 7777, but they only appear once in a run.
 In the first 500 digits of the actual octal expansion of pau, we also find that 6666 occurs once, and 666 occurs two other times:

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 ==Math details==
-Possibly, [[Randall]] used [http://www.wolframalpha.com/ Wolfram|Alpha] to calculate the result (he uses it a lot, for example [http://what-if.xkcd.com/70/ What-if 70: The Constant Groundskeeper] or [http://what-if.xkcd.com/62/ What-if 62: Falling With Helium]).
+Possibly, [[Randall]] used [http://www.wolframalpha.com/ Wolfram|Alpha] to calculate the result (he uses it a lot, for example ''{{what if|70|The Constant Groundskeeper}}'' or ''{{what if|62|Falling With Helium}}'').
 However, when the comic was published, there was a bug in Wolfram|Alpha so that, when getting 200 octal digits from "pau", it just calculates the decimal value rounded to 15 significant digits (this is 4.71238898038469) and expands that as octal digits as far as needed.

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 This is yet another of [[Randall]]'s [[:Category:Compromise|compromise comics]]. A few mathematicians argue as to whether to use {{w|pi}}, which is the ratio between a circle's circumference and its diameter, or {{w|Turn (angle)#Proposals for a single letter to represent 2π|tau}}, which is the ratio between a circle's circumference and its radius.
-Some consider pi to be the wrong convention and are in favor of using tau as ''the'' circle constant; see the [http://tauday.com/tau-manifesto Tau Manifesto], which was inspired by the article "[http://www.math.utah.edu/~palais/pi.html Pi is wrong!]" by mathematician Robert Palais and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iUh_CSjaSw publicized by Vi Hart].  Others consider proponents of tau to be foolish and remain loyal to pi (see the [https://proper-pi-manifesto.com/ Pi Manifesto]). Of course, regardless of which convention is used, the change is merely in notation — the underlying mathematics remains unaltered. Still, the choice of pi vs. tau can affect the clarity of equations, analogies between different equations, and how easy various subjects are to teach.
+Some consider pi to be the wrong convention and are in favor of using tau as ''the'' circle constant; see the [http://tauday.com/tau-manifesto Tau Manifesto], which was inspired by the article "[http://www.math.utah.edu/~palais/pi.html Pi is wrong!]" by mathematician Robert Palais and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iUh_CSjaSw publicized by Vi Hart] (video was made private).  Others consider proponents of tau to be foolish and remain loyal to pi (see the [https://proper-pi-manifesto.com/ Pi Manifesto]). Of course, regardless of which convention is used, the change is merely in notation — the underlying mathematics remains unaltered. Still, the choice of pi vs. tau can affect the clarity of equations, analogies between different equations, and how easy various subjects are to teach.
 Most people know π (pi) by the approximation 3.14, but do not know τ (tau) which, by definition, is twice as large as pi. Randall is suggesting using "pau", which is a {{w|portmanteau}} of "pi" and "tau", as a number situated, appropriately enough, halfway between pi and tau, i.e. 1.5 pi or 0.75 tau. But of course his number would be inconvenient, as this value does not naturally turn up when working with circles or other mathematical constructs, so there are no commonly used formulas that would use pau.

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 ==Trivia==
 *For Pi, the sequence '666' occurs for the first time at position 2440. Many more occurrences can be found here: [http://www.angio.net/pi/ The Pi-Search Page].
-*Note that "pau" is Catalan for peace, which might be a good solution for the pi/tau dispute.
+*In the discussion it has been theorized that Randall used [[356: Nerd Sniping|nerd sniping]], in which case he was aware of the mistake in Wolfram!
 *For an entertaining introduction to the concept of tau, see this [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG7vhMMXagQ Vi Hart video].
 *In March 2018 the video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcPTiiiYDs8 How pi was almost 6.283185...] was released on why Pi could just as well have been Tau (6.28), since {{w|Leonhard Euler|Euler}}, who used the letter Pi in his books, used it for both what we call Pi and Tau today... This very comic is also briefly shown in a segment regarding the controversy about these two versions of "Pi".
 *Pau is a Chinese dish, a filled bun which is round and yummy{{Citation needed}}, just like pie.{{actual citation needed}}
 *[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pau,_Pyr%C3%A9n%C3%A9es-Atlantiques Pau] is also a city of south-western France.