2519: Sloped Border - Revision history

172.70.207.29: /* Explanation */ "hence" means "from here", NOT "thus", especially in this context

2024-12-12T23:20:15Z

‎Explanation: "hence" means "from here", NOT "thus", especially in this context

172.68.34.18: Added a significant section to the end of paragraph 4 of the explanation, theorizing that Blondie's country would want the mining rights or Cueball's country would want airspace for a space program to avoid using that of an unfriendly neighboring country.

2024-12-04T19:29:02Z

Added a significant section to the end of paragraph 4 of the explanation, theorizing that Blondie's country would want the mining rights or Cueball's country would want airspace for a space program to avoid using that of an unfriendly neighboring country.

172.71.178.56: Undo revision 329410 by Pie Guy (talk) Looking at what this edit 'simplified', it stopped explaining most of what it had done. Yes, maybe an edit needed, but clearly hadn't been read and understood.

2023-11-21T22:20:54Z

Undo revision 329410 by Pie Guy (talk) Looking at what this edit 'simplified', it stopped explaining most of what it had done. Yes, maybe an edit needed, but clearly hadn't been read and understood.

Pie Guy: /* Explanation */ Condensed the excess of curvature paragraphs into one; this page is too long and could do with major trimming

2023-11-21T14:36:11Z

‎Explanation: Condensed the excess of curvature paragraphs into one; this page is too long and could do with major trimming

162.158.203.38: /* Transcript */ Maybe instead "...are in a posture of...", but while "postured" is correct, it has a more common alternative word-for-word replacement.

2022-10-23T20:37:41Z

‎Transcript: Maybe instead "...are in a posture of...", but while "postured" is correct, it has a more common alternative word-for-word replacement.

JLZ0kTC5: ?

2022-10-23T19:22:26Z

172.70.86.44: /* Explanation */ .A choice between ..to respect/to be respecting. Went for the latter.

2022-06-15T19:22:40Z

‎Explanation: .A choice between ..to respect/to be respecting. Went for the latter.

Char Latte49: /* Explanation */

2022-06-15T15:37:20Z

‎Explanation

Theusaf: Reverted edits by Donald Trump (talk) to last revision by CRLF

2022-05-26T19:57:02Z

Reverted edits by Donald Trump (talk) to last revision by CRLF

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Donald Trump: Reverted edit by anti-crap user

2022-05-26T19:04:51Z

Reverted edit by anti-crap user

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@@ Line 17: / Line 17: @@
 Most countries would not agree to a border that cuts into their airspace and shrinks their territory as the altitude increases; most cases of countries losing area have come about as a result of trying to avert, or losing, an armed conflict. It is entirely possible that Cueball's country has compelled Blondie's country to accept its demands, of which the redrawn border is one. Alternatively, Cueball's country may be deliberately reducing its own airspace purely because it will cause problems. It is also equally possible that Blondie's country has accepted the airspace loss in exchange for the potential mineral and mining rights from the portion of Cueball's country, potentially due to a more prevalent mining economy in hers vs a more prevalent aerial defense force or space program for Cueball. A sloped border like this could resolve an issue of Cueball's country's rockets passing through a neighboring country's air space, which would be unwelcome, and so the sloped border allows the rockets to be steered into the additional airspace, thereby preventing conflict.
-There is at least one famous case of a border being affected by elevation: the Franco-Swiss border bisects the staircase of the {{w|Hotel Arbez}}. Hence, although part of the upper floor is geographically in France, the entire floor is Swiss territory, because it is only accessible through Switzerland.
+There is at least one famous case of a border being affected by elevation: the Franco-Swiss border bisects the staircase of the {{w|Hotel Arbez}}. Thus, although part of the upper floor is geographically in France, the entire floor is Swiss territory, because it is only accessible through Switzerland.
 The mathematical computation for an angled air sovereignty seems relatively straight-forward at low level and could be expressed with a single line of code or a single equation, although the people acting on the information are likely unfamiliar with code and equations and likely use tools with completely no support for sloped borders.  The mention of curvatures in the title text may reveal some emergent problems that need accounting for.

@@ Line 15: / Line 15: @@
 If the borders were sloped (with respect to the horizontal ground level) an airplane would need to know its precise height to decide if another country's jurisdiction currently applies. With the help of the {{w|Global Positioning System}} this would be in principle possible, although the height information of GPS is less reliable.  (It might be possible to program a computer to use altitude data from the airplane's altimeter along with latitude and longitude data from the GPS and a relevant ground relief database to make an accurate determination.)
-Most countries would not agree to a border that cuts into their airspace and shrinks their territory as the altitude increases; most cases of countries losing area have come about as a result of trying to avert, or losing, an armed conflict. It is entirely possible that Cueball's country has compelled Blondie's country to accept its demands, of which the redrawn border is one. Alternatively, Cueball's country may be deliberately reducing its own airspace purely because it will cause problems.
+Most countries would not agree to a border that cuts into their airspace and shrinks their territory as the altitude increases; most cases of countries losing area have come about as a result of trying to avert, or losing, an armed conflict. It is entirely possible that Cueball's country has compelled Blondie's country to accept its demands, of which the redrawn border is one. Alternatively, Cueball's country may be deliberately reducing its own airspace purely because it will cause problems. It is also equally possible that Blondie's country has accepted the airspace loss in exchange for the potential mineral and mining rights from the portion of Cueball's country, potentially due to a more prevalent mining economy in hers vs a more prevalent aerial defense force or space program for Cueball. A sloped border like this could resolve an issue of Cueball's country's rockets passing through a neighboring country's air space, which would be unwelcome, and so the sloped border allows the rockets to be steered into the additional airspace, thereby preventing conflict.
 There is at least one famous case of a border being affected by elevation: the Franco-Swiss border bisects the staircase of the {{w|Hotel Arbez}}. Hence, although part of the upper floor is geographically in France, the entire floor is Swiss territory, because it is only accessible through Switzerland.

@@ Line 19: / Line 19: @@
 There is at least one famous case of a border being affected by elevation: the Franco-Swiss border bisects the staircase of the {{w|Hotel Arbez}}. Hence, although part of the upper floor is geographically in France, the entire floor is Swiss territory, because it is only accessible through Switzerland.
-The mathematical computation for an angled air sovereignty seems relatively straight-forward at low level and could be expressed with a single line of code or a single equation, although the people acting on the information are likely unfamiliar with code and equations and likely use tools with completely no support for sloped borders.
+The mathematical computation for an angled air sovereignty seems relatively straight-forward at low level and could be expressed with a single line of code or a single equation, although the people acting on the information are likely unfamiliar with code and equations and likely use tools with completely no support for sloped borders.  The mention of curvatures in the title text may reveal some emergent problems that need accounting for.
-The title text gives a conversation snippet between, presumably, an author of the treaty, and someone else at the conference just learning about it. It reveals that not only is the border sloped, but that its slope isn't constant; indeed, the treaty contains an entire section just for detailing its curvature. The curvature of the border could be caused in various ways; it could detail how the Earth curves away from the line as it shoots off into space, or it could be that the border bends downwards to maintain a constant angle relative to the Earth's surface. Perhaps most likely, the border curves in arbitrary directions (maybe even with twisting), fabricated by the treaty authors, in order to cause more emotional turmoil for the GIS people.
+A totally straight line drawn far enough upwards at an angle will find the surface of the Earth curving away beneath it (not even considering terrain undulations) and the angle to the local vertical will reduce as it continues, tending towards vertical as you head towards infinite altitude.
 While the comic doesn't mention this, such a boundary should probably also extend underground, in the opposite direction. (The straight-line version, if implemented, will eventually reach a depth at which it is tangential to the radius and then rise back through the surface an equal distance further around the planet.)  This would then impact, at practical depths for such things, planning rights for property foundations and, at deeper levels, mining rights for minerals.

@@ Line 19: / Line 19: @@
 There is at least one famous case of a border being affected by elevation: the Franco-Swiss border bisects the staircase of the {{w|Hotel Arbez}}. Hence, although part of the upper floor is geographically in France, the entire floor is Swiss territory, because it is only accessible through Switzerland.
-The mathematical computation for an angled air sovereignty seems relatively straight-forward at low level and could be expressed with a single line of code or a single equation, although the people acting on the information are likely unfamiliar with code and equations and likely use tools with completely no support for sloped borders.  The mention of curvatures in the title text may reveal some emergent problems that need accounting for.
+The mathematical computation for an angled air sovereignty seems relatively straight-forward at low level and could be expressed with a single line of code or a single equation, although the people acting on the information are likely unfamiliar with code and equations and likely use tools with completely no support for sloped borders.
-A totally straight line drawn far enough upwards at an angle will find the surface of the Earth curving away beneath it (not even considering terrain undulations) and the angle to the local vertical will reduce as it continues, tending towards vertical as you head towards infinite altitude.
+The title text gives a conversation snippet between, presumably, an author of the treaty, and someone else at the conference just learning about it. It reveals that not only is the border sloped, but that its slope isn't constant; indeed, the treaty contains an entire section just for detailing its curvature. The curvature of the border could be caused in various ways; it could detail how the Earth curves away from the line as it shoots off into space, or it could be that the border bends downwards to maintain a constant angle relative to the Earth's surface. Perhaps most likely, the border curves in arbitrary directions (maybe even with twisting), fabricated by the treaty authors, in order to cause more emotional turmoil for the GIS people.
 While the comic doesn't mention this, such a boundary should probably also extend underground, in the opposite direction. (The straight-line version, if implemented, will eventually reach a depth at which it is tangential to the radius and then rise back through the surface an equal distance further around the planet.)  This would then impact, at practical depths for such things, planning rights for property foundations and, at deeper levels, mining rights for minerals.

@@ Line 36: / Line 36: @@
 ==Transcript==
-:[Cueball and Blondie are standing on a podium. They are holding a document together between them, filled with unreadable text. On either side of the podium are two informational graphics each on a stand. They are placed a bit behind the back side of the podium. The graphic to the left shows a cross-sectional view of a non-vertical border, shown as a dotted line going up between Cueball and Blondie, who both are standing on the ground. The angle is indicated and noted, and the line tilts towards Blondie's side. The graphic on the right shows a skewed perspective of a similar setup of the non vertical border, shaded so what is behind it becomes gray. There are also some lines on this plane to indicate where it is. It almost looks like a window, but people can move through it. There are also two more persons than on the left, Megan, who is on the same side of the border as Cueball, and another Cueball-like guy standing next to Blondie. Megan is entirely on Cueball's side of the plane, but the other three are positioned so they are intersected by the 'shaded plane' of the border, with the effect that some or most of their bodies are beyond the sloped boundary, in the gray area, but not all. Cueball and Blondie are postured in a mutual greeting across this border, as the others look on.]
+:[Cueball and Blondie are standing on a podium. They are holding a document together between them, filled with unreadable text. On either side of the podium are two informational graphics each on a stand. They are placed a bit behind the back side of the podium. The graphic to the left shows a cross-sectional view of a non-vertical border, shown as a dotted line going up between Cueball and Blondie, who both are standing on the ground. The angle is indicated and noted, and the line tilts towards Blondie's side. The graphic on the right shows a skewed perspective of a similar setup of the non vertical border, shaded so what is behind it becomes gray. There are also some lines on this plane to indicate where it is. It almost looks like a window, but people can move through it. There are also two more persons than on the left, Megan, who is on the same side of the border as Cueball, and another Cueball-like guy standing next to Blondie. Megan is entirely on Cueball's side of the plane, but the other three are positioned so they are intersected by the 'shaded plane' of the border, with the effect that some or most of their bodies are beyond the sloped boundary, in the gray area, but not all. Cueball and Blondie are posed in a mutual greeting across this border, as the others look on.]
 :Cueball: With this treaty, we are proud to announce the creation of the world's first '''''sloped''''' international border!
 :Angle: 74°

@@ Line 29: / Line 29: @@
 While the comic doesn't mention this, such a boundary should probably also extend underground, in the opposite direction. (The straight-line version, if implemented, will eventually reach a depth at which it is tangential to the radius and then rise back through the surface an equal distance further around the planet.)  This would then impact, at practical depths for such things, planning rights for property foundations and, at deeper levels, mining rights for minerals.
-Practically, an upper-limit to a nation's claim (somewhat below satellites, e.g. the Karman Line) and a lower limit (well before reaching the Earth's mantle) will prevent many of these complications, together with intersections with other (probably vertical) 'territorial volume' borders that will supercede in any compound claims to ownership. - However, it is still ''very important'' to specify exactly which curve (i.e. with respect to what) the boundary is designed to respecting.
+Practically, an upper-limit to a nation's claim (somewhat below satellites, e.g. the Karman Line) and a lower limit (well before reaching the Earth's mantle) will prevent many of these complications, together with intersections with other (probably vertical) 'territorial volume' borders that will supercede in any compound claims to ownership. - However, it is still ''very important'' to specify exactly which curve (i.e. with respect to what) the boundary is designed to be respecting.
 "GIS" refers to {{w|geographic information system}}, a set of tools and methods for capturing, analyzing and presenting spatial and geographic data. While altitude is already an (optional) element in the blocks of information, people developing these systems would be inconvenienced by the additional requirements demanded by the border described in the comic.