2799: Frankenstein Claim Permutations - Revision history

2A01:799:66:901:8D2A:7AB9:3E0F:F6A0: Changed "Frankenstein" to "Victor Frankenstein" to make it extra clear to the casual reader that the creator, not the creature, is being referred.

2025-06-05T18:03:26Z

Changed "Frankenstein" to "Victor Frankenstein" to make it extra clear to the casual reader that the creator, not the creature, is being referred.

CalibansCreations: /* Explanation */

2025-04-17T13:41:46Z

‎Explanation

SteveMB: /* Explanation */

2024-05-20T19:25:47Z

‎Explanation

172.70.211.38: Typo fix

2023-11-05T17:51:18Z

Typo fix

PaintspotInfez: /* Transcript */ (with longer hair)

2023-10-24T18:00:29Z

‎Transcript: (with longer hair)

172.69.79.213: Improved wiktionary link. Reverted a block of change that i thought was totally irrelevent ("the the" equals name reversal? ...nope) and ssquished other stuff.

2023-07-29T21:40:57Z

Improved wiktionary link. Reverted a block of change that i thought was totally irrelevent ("the the" equals name reversal? ...nope) and ssquished other stuff.

172.71.215.65 at 16:59, 29 July 2023

2023-07-29T16:59:09Z

172.71.218.224 at 16:42, 29 July 2023

2023-07-29T16:42:33Z

Xurkitree10: /* Explanation */

2023-07-29T06:42:33Z

‎Explanation

172.70.90.164: /* Explanation */ Better not abbreviated to digit.

2023-07-28T07:53:44Z

‎Explanation: Better not abbreviated to digit.

@@ Line 25: / Line 25: @@
 |-
 |"No, the monster in Mary Shelley's novel is named Frankenstein."||Also common, and not worth getting mad about IMO||MS-?-F||This is a common misconception, but Randall believes it's not something to get upset about, either because he has decided it's not {{wiktionary|hill to die on|a hill worth dying on}} or that, since everyone calls the monster "Frankenstein", it is ''de facto'' for all intents and purposes his name. Randall has previously touched upon this in comics [[1589: Frankenstein]] and [[2604: Frankenstein Captcha]]. This permutation places the '?' in the creator position, and so avoids talking about the doctor's name at all.
-Alternatively, the statement could be taken as an argument that Frankenstein should be considered the "monster" because he created and then abandoned a sentient being.
+Alternatively, the statement could be taken as an argument that Victor Frankenstein should be considered the "monster" because he created and then abandoned a sentient being.
 |-
 |"No, Frankenstein is the name of the author. The monster Mary Shelley created is unnamed."||At a glance this could pass for one of the normal claims||F-MS-?||This statement, Randall says, is so much like the first two that he says it could pass for one of the normal claims. He could also mean that while slightly stretching the meaning of those words, Mary Shelley did "create" the monster (as it's a character in the book she wrote) and Frankenstein is the "author" (creator) of the monster. Alternately, one can consider the story a mostly first hand account of Victor's exploits, as it is initially told to the book's opening narrator (the otherwise sidelined Captain Robert Walton), with Mary having created Monster, Victor, the Captain and all others within the novel (of the Captain's tale of Victor's tale of the apparent nature of the Monster).

@@ Line 12: / Line 12: @@
 ''{{w|Frankenstein}}'' is an 1818 novel by Mary Shelley about a young scientist named Victor Frankenstein who creates a sapient, humanoid lifeform through an unorthodox experiment, and then rejects his creation, which eventually turns on him. The novel is a classic in both the horror and speculative fiction genres, and has been argued to represent the first major example of true science fiction in literature. The lifeform he creates is never named in the original novel, only being referred to as "the Creature".
-In the two centuries since the novel's publication, the story and its characters have been adapted and reused in various forms, and the term "Frankenstein" has come to be commonly used to refer to the creature, rather than the scientist who created him. Literary didacts are often quick to point out this error, but are generally ignored, as the name has become accepted, common usage. The debate has become something of a meme. The Creature himself, at one point, refers to himself as effectively being Frankenstein's son, which could imply he wishes to carry the same name; at the same time, Doctor Frankenstein does not treat his creation with such a level of humanity and speaks as if the Creature is completely nameless. To this day the debate continues among literary analysts whether the Creature should remain nameless for these reasons. These disputes have previously been touched upon in [[1589: Frankenstein]] and [[2604: Frankenstein Captcha]]
+In the two centuries since the novel's publication, the story and its characters have been adapted and reused in various forms, and the term "Frankenstein" has come to be commonly used to refer to the creature, rather than the scientist who created him. Literary didacts are often quick to point out this error, but are generally ignored, as the name has become accepted, common usage. The debate has become something of a meme. The Creature himself, at one point, refers to himself as effectively being Frankenstein's son, which could imply he wishes to carry the same name; at the same time, Doctor Frankenstein does not treat his creation with such a level of humanity and speaks as if the Creature is completely nameless. To this day the debate continues among literary analysts whether the Creature should remain nameless for these reasons. These disputes have previously been touched upon in [[1589: Frankenstein]] and [[2604: Frankenstein Captcha]].
 The title text points out that he's "stitching together" various claims to create something new, and people consider him mad as a result. This refers to the notion of Frankenstein's creation having been stitched together from dead bodies, and Dr. Frankenstein himself being denounced as a madman. It should be noted that these perceptions come from later adaptations (most notably {{w|Frankenstein_(1931_film)|the 1931 film}}) rather than the original novel, but have become closely associated with the Frankenstein mythos. Following similar meta-textual logic, the title "Frankenstein Claim Permutations" is a double entendre, meaning both (1) permutations of claims regarding the novel ''Frankenstein'' and (2) permutations of claims of a Frankenstein nature (i.e. a franken-claim) in that they are formed by haphazardly joining together different parts.

@@ Line 24: / Line 24: @@
 |"No, the monster in Mary Shelley's book is unnamed. Frankenstein is the doctor who created him."||This is the normal claim||MS-F-?||This is the claim that is generally considered correct. The POV character of the novel is, in fact, Victor Frankenstein. The monster is never given a name, although some fans name him Adam because of a line he speaks to Victor: "'I ought to be thy Adam, but I am rather the fallen angel, whom thou drivest from joy". The only error in this claim is referring to Victor as a doctor. (In the novel, Victor has not finished his schooling, returning home before finishing his education at the University of Ingolstadt.)
 |-
-|"No, the monster in Mary Shelley's novel is named Frankenstein."||Also common, and not worth getting mad about IMO||MS-?-F||This is a common misconception, but Randall believes it's not something to get upset about, either because he has decided it's not {{wiktionary|hill to die on|a hill worth dying on}} or that, since everyone calls the monster "Frankenstein", it is ''de facto'' for all intents and purposes his name.
+|"No, the monster in Mary Shelley's novel is named Frankenstein."||Also common, and not worth getting mad about IMO||MS-?-F||This is a common misconception, but Randall believes it's not something to get upset about, either because he has decided it's not {{wiktionary|hill to die on|a hill worth dying on}} or that, since everyone calls the monster "Frankenstein", it is ''de facto'' for all intents and purposes his name. Randall has previously touched upon this in comics [[1589: Frankenstein]] and [[2604: Frankenstein Captcha]]. This permutation places the '?' in the creator position, and so avoids talking about the doctor's name at all.
 Alternatively, the statement could be taken as an argument that Frankenstein should be considered the "monster" because he created and then abandoned a sentient being.
 |-

@@ Line 28: / Line 28: @@
 Alternatively, the statement could be taken as an argument that Frankenstein should be considered the "monster" because he created and then abandoned a sentient being.
 |-
-|"No, Frankenstein is the name of the author. The monster Mary Shelley created is unnamed."||At a glance this could pass for one of the normal claims||F-MS-?||This statement, Randal says, is so much like the first two that he says it could pass for one of the normal claims. He could also mean that while slightly stretching the meaning of those words, Mary Shelley did "create" the monster (as it's a character in the book she wrote) and Frankenstein is the "author" (creator) of the monster. Alternately, one can consider the story a mostly first hand account of Victor's exploits, as it is initially told to the book's opening narrator (the otherwise sidelined Captain Robert Walton), with Mary having created Monster, Victor, the Captain and all others within the novel (of the Captain's tale of Victor's tale of the apparent nature of the Monster).
+|"No, Frankenstein is the name of the author. The monster Mary Shelley created is unnamed."||At a glance this could pass for one of the normal claims||F-MS-?||This statement, Randall says, is so much like the first two that he says it could pass for one of the normal claims. He could also mean that while slightly stretching the meaning of those words, Mary Shelley did "create" the monster (as it's a character in the book she wrote) and Frankenstein is the "author" (creator) of the monster. Alternately, one can consider the story a mostly first hand account of Victor's exploits, as it is initially told to the book's opening narrator (the otherwise sidelined Captain Robert Walton), with Mary having created Monster, Victor, the Captain and all others within the novel (of the Captain's tale of Victor's tale of the apparent nature of the Monster).
 This could also be a reference to a tweet[https://twitter.com/MedCrisis/status/1511644464544104452] featuring a photo of a collection of classic books[https://i.redd.it/bnab4cu39dqa1.jpg] in which "Frankenstein" is printed in the position and format of the author's name for the other books of the collection, while "Mary Shelley" is printed in the title position.
 |-

@@ Line 52: / Line 52: @@
 |[Open book. Left page says "MS", right page shows the monster labeled "F". Arrow pointing to book says "by ?".]<br/><br/>"No one knows who wrote the novel about Doctor Mary Shelley creating the monster Frankenstein."||I would read this book
 |-
-|[Open book. Left page says "F", right page shows the monster labeled "MS". Arrow pointing to book says "by ?".]<br/><br/>"No, Frankenstein is the name of the doctor. The monster he created is Mary Shelley."||rowspan=2|Fully chaotic
+|[Open book. Left page says "F", right page shows the monster (with longer hair) labeled "MS". Arrow pointing to book says "by ?".]<br/><br/>"No, Frankenstein is the name of the doctor. The monster he created is Mary Shelley."||rowspan=2|Fully chaotic
 |-
-|[Open book. Left page says "?", right page shows the monster labeled "MS". Arrow pointing to book says "by F".]<br/><br/>"No, the doctor who creates Mary Shelley in Frankenstein's novel doesn't have a name."
+|[Open book. Left page says "?", right page shows the monster (with longer hair) labeled "MS". Arrow pointing to book says "by F".]<br/><br/>"No, the doctor who creates Mary Shelley in Frankenstein's novel doesn't have a name."
 |}
 [[Category:Frankenstein]]
 [[Category:Fiction]]
 {{comic discussion}}

@@ Line 28: / Line 28: @@
 Alternatively, the statement could be taken as an argument that Frankenstein should be considered the "monster" because he created and then abandoned a sentient being.
 |-
-|"No, Frankenstein is the name of the author. The monster Mary Shelley created is unnamed."||At a glance this could pass for one of the normal claims||F-MS-?||This statement, Randal says, is so much like the first two that he says it could pass for one of the normal claims. He could also mean that while slightly stretching the meaning of those words, Mary Shelley did "create" the monster (as it's a character in the book she wrote) and Frankenstein is the "author" (creator) of the monster. Alternately, one can consider the story a mostly first hand account of Victor's exploits, as it is initially told to the book's opening narrator (the otherwise sidelined Captain Robert Walton), with Mary having created Monster, Victor, the Captain and all others within the novel (of the Captain's tale of Victor's tale of the apparent nature of the Monster).
+|"No, Frankenstein is the name of the author. The monster Mary Shelley created is unnamed."||At a glance this could pass for one of the normal claims||F-MS-?||This sentence takes advantage of a quirk in our brains in that we often subconsciously adjust sentences to cause them to make sense. A common example given is "a bird in the the tree", which features two instances of the word "the" in sequence that studies have found most people automatically gloss over. In this context, even though the names of Frankenstein and Mary Shelley are swapped around, our brains subconsciously swap them back, thereby making the sentences sound "correct".
 This could also be a reference to a tweet[https://twitter.com/MedCrisis/status/1511644464544104452] featuring a photo of a collection of classic books[https://i.redd.it/bnab4cu39dqa1.jpg] in which "Frankenstein" is printed in the position and format of the author's name for the other books of the collection, while "Mary Shelley" is printed in the title position.
 |-
-|"No one knows who wrote the novel about Doctor Mary Shelley creating the monster Frankenstein."||I would read this book||?-MS-F|| This statement combines the second claim (that Frankenstein is the monster's name) with the third claim (that Mary Shelley created the monster). This time, however, it is claimed that the ''author'' is unknown, while the monster is named. Once again, this claim is almost reasonable, as it could be argued that Mary Shelley, as the author, did create Frankenstein (although she was also not a doctor).
+|"No one knows who wrote the novel about Doctor Mary Shelley creating the monster Frankenstein."||I would read this book||?-MS-F|| This statement combines the second claim (that Frankenstein is the monster's name) with the third claim (that Mary Shelley created the monster). This time, however, it is claimed that the ''author'' is unknown, while the monster is named. A novel about author Mary Shelley getting a doctorate and actually creating the creature she wrote about could be an interesting twist on the story, hence Randall's comment that he would read this book.
 |-
-|"No, Frankenstein is the name of the doctor. The monster he created is Mary Shelley."||rowspan=2|Fully chaotic||?-F-MS|| This claim is similar to the others, in that it twists the ordering of the components (author, doctor, monster), but this time it gets the doctor's name correct whilst insinuating that Mary Shelley was the monster he created. This is described as "fully chaotic", likely because the idea of the real-life human author being created by a doctor in the story that was written by her is much less believable and much further from any solid literary footing than the others.
+|"No, Frankenstein is the name of the doctor. The monster he created is Mary Shelley."||rowspan=2|Fully chaotic||?-F-MS|| This claim is similar to the others, in that it twists the ordering of the components (author, doctor, monster), but this time it gets the doctor's name correct whilst insinuating that Mary Shelley was the monster he created. This is described as "fully chaotic", likely because the idea of the real-life human author being created by a doctor in the story that was written by her is much more absurd and much further from any solid literary footing than the others.
 |-
 |"No, the doctor who creates Mary Shelley in Frankenstein's novel doesn't have a name."||F-?-MS||Possible Doctor Who reference.

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:42, 29 July 2023
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	==Explanation==		==Explanation==
−	{{incomplete\|Created by Dr. Shelly who wrote the book about Frankenstein making the monster called Mary Shelly who then created a monster called Mary Shelly II who made an Irish movie called Count Dracula. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
−
	''{{w\|Frankenstein}}'' is an 1818 novel by Mary Shelley about a young scientist named Victor Frankenstein who creates a sapient, humanoid lifeform through an unorthodox experiment, and then rejects his creation, which eventually turns on him. The novel is a classic in both the horror and speculative fiction genres, and has been argued to represent the first major example of true science fiction in literature. The lifeform he creates is never named in the original novel, only being referred to as "the Creature".		''{{w\|Frankenstein}}'' is an 1818 novel by Mary Shelley about a young scientist named Victor Frankenstein who creates a sapient, humanoid lifeform through an unorthodox experiment, and then rejects his creation, which eventually turns on him. The novel is a classic in both the horror and speculative fiction genres, and has been argued to represent the first major example of true science fiction in literature. The lifeform he creates is never named in the original novel, only being referred to as "the Creature".