3039: Human Altitude - Revision history

B for brain: /* Explanation */ Removed Incomplete tag

2025-02-15T23:04:54Z

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N0lqu: Andes advantage

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Andes advantage

172.69.43.242: Jumping over the gap was the edge case, not the falling from great height

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Jumping over the gap was the edge case, not the falling from great height

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← Older revision		Revision as of 23:04, 15 February 2025
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	==Explanation==		==Explanation==
−	~~{{incomplete\|Created by a BOT HILARIOUSLY STUCK IN A TREBUCHET. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}~~
	This comic shows the altitudes of the highest humans over time, using a [[Log Scale\|logarithmic vertical scale]] to display both low-level altitudes and highest achievements. The graph tracks the ''single'' most altitudinous individual at any given time, measuring height above Earth's surface rather than sea level, meaning residents of {{w\|Tibet}} or the {{w\|Andes\|high Peruvian Andes}} gain no particular advantage.		This comic shows the altitudes of the highest humans over time, using a [[Log Scale\|logarithmic vertical scale]] to display both low-level altitudes and highest achievements. The graph tracks the ''single'' most altitudinous individual at any given time, measuring height above Earth's surface rather than sea level, meaning residents of {{w\|Tibet}} or the {{w\|Andes\|high Peruvian Andes}} gain no particular advantage.

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 ==Explanation==
-{{incomplete|Created by a BOT HILARIOUSLY STUCK IN A TREBUCHET- Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
+{{incomplete|Created by a BOT HILARIOUSLY STUCK IN A TREBUCHET. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
-The comic purports to show the altitudes of the highest humans over time, starting from a little after 1700. The conceit is that it indicates the ''single'' most altitudinous individual at any given time, so does not follow any particular person but would switch focus to whichever representative of humanity becomes "the highest up" (whether by rising above the previous leader, or by remaining high as the other loses their own elevation). There will necessarily be a degree of artistic interpretation and presumed trajectory of this particular marker, although the general trend of the line appears to be inspired by (some) actual factual realities. It uses a [[Log Scale | logarithmic vertical scale]] in order to indicate the finer details of 'low level' altitudes, yet fit the highest achievements onto the page. The measurements appear to be height above the Earth's surface, rather than, say, height above sea level, so a resident of {{w|Tibet}} or the {{w|Andes|high Peruvian Andes}} (for example) does not normally gain any particular advantage unless they were to accidentally fall over a cliff and find the ground suddenly very far below them.
+This comic shows the altitudes of the highest humans over time, using a [[Log Scale|logarithmic vertical scale]] to display both low-level altitudes and highest achievements. The graph tracks the ''single'' most altitudinous individual at any given time, measuring height above Earth's surface rather than sea level, meaning residents of {{w|Tibet}} or the {{w|Andes|high Peruvian Andes}} gain no particular advantage.
-Prior to 1783, the {{w|Montgolfier brothers#Piloted flight, autumn_1783|first confirmed ascent}} of a human in a balloon, the line's high-points are indicated to be due to "various falls", i.e. a person who ''was'' on the top of a particularly high building/cliff/tree suddenly finding themselves (for an instant or two, at least) the person 'lucky' enough to be considered the furthest above the Earth (it is at times like this that living at a higher absolute altitude ''might'' grant an 'advantage' to the individual who suddenly discovers their previously high standing-spot to no longer be as reliable as they thought, or intentionally jumps off it). It also suggests that "catapult accidents", such as accidentally, or maybe [https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/nov/01/highereducation.students not so accidentally] being caught in a sling on a {{w|trebuchet}} when it is fired (indicated as "hilarious") may also contribute to the (momentary) gain in altitude. The limit to this period's ability to exist at altitude appears to be around 100 metres, which is perhaps mostly what a particular precipitous (and precarious) cliff-top might contribute to the situation. Only the eventual punchline of the title-text even hints at whether any of these feats might have been survivable, perhaps the minimum requirement is merely that the individual be alive (to still be considered a person) at the point they are at their claimed height — if the resulting return to ground level is fatal, usually this will happen upon meeting the surface, by which point they are already no higher than all other humans.
+Prior to the {{w|Montgolfier brothers#Piloted flight, autumn_1783|first confirmed ascent}} in a balloon in 1783, the high points were due to "various falls" and "catapult accidents," such as being caught in a {{w|trebuchet}} when fired. Once {{w|balloon}} flights began, heights of up to 10km were attained, despite some {{w|List of ballooning accidents|dangers}}. The advent of {{w|airplanes}} in the 1900s led to even greater heights, particularly after World War 2 when regular high-altitude flight became common among bomber pilots.
-Once {{w|balloon}} flights start, heights of up to 10km are attained. And though there were some {{w|List of ballooning accidents|dangers}} from this, as early aeronauts discovered, it might at least now be presumed that some of these peaks were attained by individuals who had previously marked a prior instantaneous altitude on the graph.
+The emergence of {{w|spaceflight}} in the late 1960s dramatically increased the upper spikes, with the {{w|Apollo Program}} (from {{w|Apollo 8}} to {{w|Apollo 17}}) reaching approximately 400,000km during Moon missions. After the Moon landings, altitudes settled to orbital distances, with the "Space Station" era marking continuous human presence at about 400km since November 2000, occasionally higher for missions like servicing the {{w|Hubble Space Telescope}} at 515km.
-Shortly after the 1900s, {{w|airplanes}} dominate the graph. And the rise in utility of passenger aircraft (before World War 2; but especially afterwards, following a period where regular and extended high-altitude flight has been experienced by bomber pilots of various nations) ensures not only that there are people attaining greater and greater altitudes, but also that there are also always ''other'' people in the air, ensuring that the lesser 'maximum altitude' periods still have people a significant number of kilometres in the air.
+Notable exclusions from the graph include early experiments with man-flying kites, cathedral workers, and visitors to structures like the Eiffel tower (276m), suggesting Randall excluded cases where people were standing on permanent structures. The graph also appears to ignore cases that are difficult to substantiate, such as those caused by violent winds, although it conveys an impression of omniscient certainty.
-Interestingly, the lower-limit, all the way up to the invention of the airplane, seems to stay at about two metres (around 1881, the lowest marked position seems to be only slightly above 1 metre), which might represent the possibility of there always being at least ''someone'' climbing up a ladder and/or jumping off of a hay-cart. This does not, of course, discount the very real possibility that there are persons about to attain greater altitude, as the parts ''between'' the lowermost fluctuations obviously represent periods of someone having yet greater vertical displacement.
+The title text speculates about pre-balloon altitude records (excluding cases like jumping gaps on mountain bridges), suggesting survival from falls into water or snow, or more extreme scenarios involving gunpowder explosions or {{tvtropes|LavaSurfing|volcanic eruptions}}. As of the comic's date, the record for surviving a cliff jump into water is 58.8 meters, set in 2015.
-Once {{w|spaceflight}} becomes a thing (interestingly, marked around the late 1960s, though it actually started in April 1961), that greatly increases the upper spikes for the (implied) duration of the {{w|Orbital spaceflight|orbital flights}}.
+A different interpretation could track the highest altitude visited by any ''still living'' human, similar to [[893: 65 Years]] but following different rules. This would maintain Moon-height records from the first {{w|Apollo 8}} orbit until the last Apollo astronaut's death (missions 8-17), unless superseded by {{w|Human mission to Mars|greater records}} or achievements from {{w|Chinese space program#Near future development|other space programs}}.
 ==Transcript==

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 ==Explanation==
 {{incomplete|Created by a BOT HILARIOUSLY STUCK IN A TREBUCHET- Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
-The comic purports to show the altitudes of the highest humans over time, starting from a little after 1700. The conceit is that it indicates the ''single'' most altitudinous individual at any given time, so does not follow any particular person but would switch focus to whichever representative of humanity becomes "the highest up" (whether by rising above the previous leader, or by remaining high as the other loses their own elevation). There will necessarily be a degree of artistic interpretation and presumed trajectory of this particular marker, although the general trend of the line appears to be inspired by (some) actual factual realities. It uses a [[Log Scale | logarithmic vertical scale]] in order to indicate the finer details of 'low level' altitudes, yet fit the highest achievements onto the page. The measurements appear to be height above the Earth's surface, rather than, say, height above sea level, so a resident of {{w|Tibet}} or the {{w|Andes|high Peruvian Andes}} (for example) does not normally gain any particular advantage.
+The comic purports to show the altitudes of the highest humans over time, starting from a little after 1700. The conceit is that it indicates the ''single'' most altitudinous individual at any given time, so does not follow any particular person but would switch focus to whichever representative of humanity becomes "the highest up" (whether by rising above the previous leader, or by remaining high as the other loses their own elevation). There will necessarily be a degree of artistic interpretation and presumed trajectory of this particular marker, although the general trend of the line appears to be inspired by (some) actual factual realities. It uses a [[Log Scale | logarithmic vertical scale]] in order to indicate the finer details of 'low level' altitudes, yet fit the highest achievements onto the page. The measurements appear to be height above the Earth's surface, rather than, say, height above sea level, so a resident of {{w|Tibet}} or the {{w|Andes|high Peruvian Andes}} (for example) does not normally gain any particular advantage unless they were to accidentally fall over a cliff and find the ground suddenly very far below them.
 Prior to 1783, the {{w|Montgolfier brothers#Piloted flight, autumn_1783|first confirmed ascent}} of a human in a balloon, the line's high-points are indicated to be due to "various falls", i.e. a person who ''was'' on the top of a particularly high building/cliff/tree suddenly finding themselves (for an instant or two, at least) the person 'lucky' enough to be considered the furthest above the Earth (it is at times like this that living at a higher absolute altitude ''might'' grant an 'advantage' to the individual who suddenly discovers their previously high standing-spot to no longer be as reliable as they thought, or intentionally jumps off it). It also suggests that "catapult accidents", such as accidentally, or maybe [https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/nov/01/highereducation.students not so accidentally] being caught in a sling on a {{w|trebuchet}} when it is fired (indicated as "hilarious") may also contribute to the (momentary) gain in altitude. The limit to this period's ability to exist at altitude appears to be around 100 metres, which is perhaps mostly what a particular precipitous (and precarious) cliff-top might contribute to the situation. Only the eventual punchline of the title-text even hints at whether any of these feats might have been survivable, perhaps the minimum requirement is merely that the individual be alive (to still be considered a person) at the point they are at their claimed height — if the resulting return to ground level is fatal, usually this will happen upon meeting the surface, by which point they are already no higher than all other humans.

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 Also, workers and bell-ringers in medieval cathedrals, or attendants at the Lighthouse of Alexandria, would have been substantially above the "tens of meters" level. Moreover, the Eiffel tower has been open to visitors since its opening in 1899, which would have ensured some people to be at at least 276m, during the opening hours. This indicates that people standing on buildings and tall structures do not count for the purpose of the graph, and combined with the fact that tornadoes can lift people high in the air and touch them down alive (though the latter stipulation ''may'' not even be required). It may be that Randall excluded cases in which the person was standing on a permanent structure, considering that as an equivalent to varying terrain. Perhaps he also refuses to count cases that are difficult to substantiate/quantify, such as those caused by violent winds, although the graph ''does'' convey the impression of an omniscient and absolute certainty beyond the more broad historical basis it outlines.
-The title text talks of record-holders who survived, and the possible circumstances. Amongst these circumstances would include anyone who had to leap a narrow gap above a deep drop, momentarily having an extreme height above the ground directly below them, without the absolute certainty of fatality (though still open to risks) of stepping off a similarly high cliff-top. (As of the date of the comic, the record for jumping off a cliff into water --- and surviving, albeit with minor injuries --- appears to be 58.8 meters.  This was officially set in 2015, but there seems to be no particular reason some couldn't have done it earlier if they wanted to.  The Tomb of Hunting and Fishing, c. 520 BCE, has a fresco showing someone diving off a cliff with other people watching.  Unfortunately, they neglected to include a height scale.)  Randall considers these as 'edge cases', and ponders what more violent events may have literally propelled someone to a notable height. It is unlikely that he is entirely serious about his two suggestions. A gunpowder explosion would be dangerous enough at the {{w|Hoist with his own petard|start of the process}}, leaving the unfortunate individual probably not in any condition to appreciate the remaining trajectory. The possibility of ''any'' survivable event being triggered by close proximity to a {{tvtropes|LavaSurfing|volcanic eruption}} is unlikely, and even less possible to prepare for.
+The title text talks of record-holders who survived, and the possible circumstances. These circumstances might include anyone who had to leap a narrow gap above a deep drop, momentarily having an extreme height above the ground directly below them, although these are considered 'edge cases' by Randall. (As of the date of the comic, the record for jumping off a cliff into water --- and surviving, albeit with minor injuries --- appears to be 58.8 meters.  This was officially set in 2015, but there seems to be no particular reason some couldn't have done it earlier if they wanted to.  The Tomb of Hunting and Fishing, c. 520 BCE, has a fresco showing someone diving off a cliff with other people watching.  Unfortunately, they neglected to include a height scale.)Randall ponders what more violent events may have literally propelled someone to a notable height. It is unlikely that he is entirely serious about his two suggestions. A gunpowder explosion would be dangerous enough at the {{w|Hoist with his own petard|start of the process}}, leaving the unfortunate individual probably not in any condition to appreciate and/or survive the remaining trajectory. The possibility of ''any'' survivable event being triggered by close proximity to a {{tvtropes|LavaSurfing|volcanic eruption}} is unlikely, and even less possible to prepare for.
 Unlike the rapidly fluctuating line of the graph, a graph of the human altitude ''record'' would stay level except when incremented by a new attainment being reached, effectively drawing directly across from a given high-point in the trace until a new peak crosses it, then starting again from the top of ''that'' peak. The further stipulation of survivability would be represented by a lower line (only given the level of the tip of a new fluctuation once it is ratified that the individual concerned has survived their return to ground level, unsurvivable events not changing things). A lowest-upper-limit line could also be drawn using the low-tips of all fluctuations, representing the greatest height above the ground for which, from any given time onwards, there is always now at least one person higher. Currently, this would be at the lowest level of the orbit by the ISS but, if the ISS is abandoned prior to any further habitat in space (or beyond), this may need to be retroactively lowered to jet-plane altitudes (assuming they stay the dominant factor that they are, in the absence of space-inhabitation).

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 The comic purports to show the altitudes of the highest humans over time, starting from a little after 1700. The conceit is that it indicates the ''single'' most altitudinous individual at any given time, so does not follow any particular person but would switch focus to whichever representative of humanity becomes "the highest up" (whether by rising above the previous leader, or by remaining high as the other loses their own elevation). There will necessarily be a degree of artistic interpretation and presumed trajectory of this particular marker, although the general trend of the line appears to be inspired by (some) actual factual realities. It uses a [[Log Scale | logarithmic vertical scale]] in order to indicate the finer details of 'low level' altitudes, yet fit the highest achievements onto the page. The measurements appear to be height above the Earth's surface, rather than, say, height above sea level, so a resident of {{w|Tibet}} or the {{w|Andes|high Peruvian Andes}} (for example) does not normally gain any particular advantage.
-Prior to 1783, the {{w|Montgolfier brothers#Piloted flight, autumn_1783|first confirmed ascent}} of a human in a balloon, the line's high-points are indicated to be due to "various falls", i.e. a person who ''was'' on the top of a particularly high building/cliff/tree suddenly finding themselves (for an instant or two, at least) the person 'lucky' enough to be considered the furthest above the Earth (it is at times like this that living at a higher absolute altitude ''might'' grant an 'advantage' to the individual who suddenly discovers their previously high standing-spot to no longer be as reliable as they thought). It also suggests that "catapult accidents", such as accidentally, or maybe [https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/nov/01/highereducation.students not so accidentally] being caught in a sling on a {{w|trebuchet}} when it is fired (indicated as "hilarious") may also contribute to the (momentary) gain in altitude. The limit to this period's ability to exist at altitude appears to be around 100 metres, which is perhaps mostly what a particular precipitous (and precarious) cliff-top might contribute to the situation. Only the eventual punchline of the title-text even hints at whether any of these feats might have been survivable, perhaps the minimum requirement is merely that the individual be alive (to still be considered a person) at the point they are at their claimed height — if the resulting return to ground level is fatal, usually this will happen upon meeting the surface, by which point they are already no higher than all other humans.
+Prior to 1783, the {{w|Montgolfier brothers#Piloted flight, autumn_1783|first confirmed ascent}} of a human in a balloon, the line's high-points are indicated to be due to "various falls", i.e. a person who ''was'' on the top of a particularly high building/cliff/tree suddenly finding themselves (for an instant or two, at least) the person 'lucky' enough to be considered the furthest above the Earth (it is at times like this that living at a higher absolute altitude ''might'' grant an 'advantage' to the individual who suddenly discovers their previously high standing-spot to no longer be as reliable as they thought, or intentionally jumps off it). It also suggests that "catapult accidents", such as accidentally, or maybe [https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/nov/01/highereducation.students not so accidentally] being caught in a sling on a {{w|trebuchet}} when it is fired (indicated as "hilarious") may also contribute to the (momentary) gain in altitude. The limit to this period's ability to exist at altitude appears to be around 100 metres, which is perhaps mostly what a particular precipitous (and precarious) cliff-top might contribute to the situation. Only the eventual punchline of the title-text even hints at whether any of these feats might have been survivable, perhaps the minimum requirement is merely that the individual be alive (to still be considered a person) at the point they are at their claimed height — if the resulting return to ground level is fatal, usually this will happen upon meeting the surface, by which point they are already no higher than all other humans.
 Once {{w|balloon}} flights start, heights of up to 10km are attained. And though there were some {{w|List of ballooning accidents|dangers}} from this, as early aeronauts discovered, it might at least now be presumed that some of these peaks were attained by individuals who had previously marked a prior instantaneous altitude on the graph.

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 The {{w|Apollo Program}} is then indicated by both label and a notable spike as (between {{w|Apollo 8}} in December 1968 and {{w|Apollo 17}} in December 1972), men from Earth were sent around the Moon and attained altitudes 'above the Earth' of approximately 400,000km in the process. Note that the disclaimer "(very approximate)" in the chart's title also applies here, as the graph shows fewer spikes than actual Moon orbitings or landings performed.
-Since the end of the original Moon landings, the upper spikes settled down quite significantly back to 'only' generally low orbital distances, but the very latest era, marked "Space Station", seems to coincide with the current continuous inhabitation of space, which officially started in November 2000. Since that date, there has ''always'' been someone at approximately 400km altitude (give or take changes in the orbit<ref>https://www.heavens-above.com/OrbitHeightPlot.aspx?Width=1600&Height=1000&satid=25544&startMJD=51111&endMJD=61000</ref>;, and of the terrain below), with occasionally some yet higher person(s) on certain missions (e.g. servicing the {{w|Hubble Space Telescope}}, May 2009 at 515km). The graph does not ''seem'' to show the blip created by {{w|Polaris Dawn}}'s 1,400 km 'new record' of September 2024, but this may be ''just'' off the right-hand edge of the graph.
+Since the end of the original Moon landings, the upper spikes settled down quite significantly back to 'only' generally low orbital distances, but the very latest era, marked "Space Station", seems to coincide with the current continuous inhabitation of space, which officially started in November 2000. Since that date, there has ''always'' been someone at approximately 400km altitude (give or take [https://www.heavens-above.com/OrbitHeightPlot.aspx?Width=1600&Height=1000&satid=25544&startMJD=51111&endMJD=61000 changes in the orbit], and of the terrain below), with occasionally some yet higher person(s) on certain missions (e.g. servicing the {{w|Hubble Space Telescope}}, May 2009 at 515km). The graph does not ''seem'' to show the blip created by {{w|Polaris Dawn}}'s 1,400 km 'new record' of September 2024, but this may be ''just'' off the right-hand edge of the graph.
 Though the historical validity is sometimes argued, it is interesting to note that (as early as the 6th century CE), experiments with man-flying kites may have produced (semi-)brief spikes in the altitude record for the time.