Talk:1389: Surface Area - Revision history

172.71.222.162 at 19:02, 19 June 2023

2023-06-19T19:02:49Z

172.68.141.166: Suggestion

2017-12-02T03:57:02Z

Suggestion

RedHatGuy68 at 03:30, 20 April 2016

2016-04-20T03:30:35Z

Davidy22 at 06:39, 25 February 2015

2015-02-25T06:39:16Z

108.162.216.77 at 04:29, 25 February 2015

2015-02-25T04:29:11Z

Davidy22 at 02:48, 4 July 2014

2014-07-04T02:48:30Z

Kynde: /* Checking the size of the areas */

2014-07-03T22:11:24Z

‎Checking the size of the areas

Kynde: /* Checking the size of the areas */ new section

2014-07-03T22:10:55Z

‎Checking the size of the areas: new section

Kynde at 20:13, 3 July 2014

2014-07-03T20:13:04Z

Kynde at 20:07, 3 July 2014

2014-07-03T20:07:32Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:02, 19 June 2023
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	#Io		#Io
	[[User:Kynde\|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde\|talk]]) 22:10, 3 July 2014 (UTC)		[[User:Kynde\|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde\|talk]]) 22:10, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
		+
		+	"This could also have been a reference to the Seattle seamstresses if it weren't for the fact that it's not." I feel this addendum could fit well on several of these "This could also be a reference to..." lines in explanations that keep popping up. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.222.162\|172.71.222.162]] 19:02, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:57, 2 December 2017
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−	FYI to whoever writes this: the Seattle reference is the Space Needle. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.65\|108.162.221.65]] 05:03, 2 July 2014 (UTC)	+	FYI to whoever writes this: the Seattle reference is the Space Needle. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.65\|108.162.221.65]] 05:03, 2 July 2014 (UTC) Or maybe the GPS that is stuck trying to go to seattle in #1837?[[Special:Contributions/172.68.141.166\|172.68.141.166]] 03:57, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

	Uranus is larger than all of these combined. Of course, it isn't on this map because it is full of gas. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.62.62\|173.245.62.62]] 05:50, 2 July 2014 (UTC)		Uranus is larger than all of these combined. Of course, it isn't on this map because it is full of gas. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.62.62\|173.245.62.62]] 05:50, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

@@ Line 7: / Line 7: @@
 ::::Because it is a core and not a surface. On Earth, for example, most of the planet's total mass lies below solid ground, which can be considered the surface of the planet. In gas giants, most of the planet's mass is gas and lies outside the solid layers. How can it be the surface of the planet when it doesn't include most of the planet's mass within it? Suggested reading:[http://www.universetoday.com/22719/surface-of-jupiter/][[Special:Contributions/103.22.201.239|103.22.201.239]] 11:03, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
 :If the spaceship has not braked enough down it would burn up in the atmosphere. If it has it would get stuck in the core of the planet, where it would eventually get crushed, as the pressure would be brutal way before reaching any rock or metallic hydrogen. Although I did like the first comment :-p [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:00, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
 And of course the earth is not correctly displayed: we have water which - in most cases - is not solid. -- jesterchen  [[Special:Contributions/141.101.75.19|141.101.75.19]] 07:23, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

@@ Line 11: / Line 11: @@
 : Water still has surface area. Edit: oh, I see what you mean now, from the title in the comic. I guess you have a point, but it's mainly there for comparison so it's not necessarily a mistake. --[[User:NeatNit|NeatNit]] ([[User talk:NeatNit|talk]]) 06:14, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
 :: Under the water there is solid bottom --[[User:JakubNarebski|JakubNarebski]] ([[User talk:JakubNarebski|talk]]) 07:01, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
-Anyone else notice the alliteration in the title? It doesn't really matter but I like it.
+Anyone else notice the alliteration in the title? It doesn't really matter but I like it. {{unsigned ip|108.162.216.77}}
 ::: But then it is not "surface" anymore... but you two have a point. I focused mainly on the title, not the image text... So forget my comment :) -- jesterchen [[Special:Contributions/141.101.75.19|141.101.75.19]] 09:12, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
 :::: Water indeed has a surface, while gas doesn't. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.104.47|141.101.104.47]] 11:13, 2 July 2014 (UTC)Martin

@@ Line 11: / Line 11: @@
 : Water still has surface area. Edit: oh, I see what you mean now, from the title in the comic. I guess you have a point, but it's mainly there for comparison so it's not necessarily a mistake. --[[User:NeatNit|NeatNit]] ([[User talk:NeatNit|talk]]) 06:14, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
 :: Under the water there is solid bottom --[[User:JakubNarebski|JakubNarebski]] ([[User talk:JakubNarebski|talk]]) 07:01, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
 ::: But then it is not "surface" anymore... but you two have a point. I focused mainly on the title, not the image text... So forget my comment :) -- jesterchen [[Special:Contributions/141.101.75.19|141.101.75.19]] 09:12, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
 :::: Water indeed has a surface, while gas doesn't. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.104.47|141.101.104.47]] 11:13, 2 July 2014 (UTC)Martin

@@ Line 77: / Line 77: @@
 :On the scale of this map, there would be no coastline paradox. This only occurs of you wish to go into details. You just overlap the edges of each surface and sew them together. If there are a few million square meters lost here and there is is of no consequence, except for at the human skin area - but this can probably be stretched quite a bit to make it fit ;) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:07, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
-== Checking the size of the areas  ==
+;Checking the size of the areas
 I have been trying to check if Randall has drawn the areas in the correct relative size (to Earth). For instance I could find that the area of The Moon fit more than 13 but less than 14 times on top of the area of Earth (as it should do 13.5 - see new column in the table with these numbers.)

@@ Line 81: / Line 81: @@
 I have been trying to check if Randall has drawn the areas in the correct relative size (to Earth). For instance I could find that the area of The Moon fit more than 13 but less than 14 times on top of the area of Earth (as it should do 13.5 - see new column in the table with these numbers.)
 Similarly I have checked that there are room for just a little more than 6 Titans on Earth, and that Earth is slightly larger than the Venus area. Also Mars have been checked against earth.
-It do not have to be checked against earth. For instance if Titan checks out, this can be used to check other object. In this way I have use Titan to see if the area of the moons of Jupiter and Mercury fits. Ganymede, Titan, Mercury and Callisto come in that order. And the other three fit well with Titan, as do Europa. However, I find that Io is not only half the size of Titan (as it should be, but it can be rather difficult to measure.) It would be cool if someone could check on the other areas
+It do not have to be checked against earth. For instance if Titan checks out, this can be used to check other object. In this way I have use Titan to see if the area of the moons of Jupiter and Mercury fits. Ganymede, Titan, Mercury and Callisto come in that order. And the other three fit well with Titan, as do Europa. However, I find that Io is not only half the size of Titan (as it should be, but it can be rather difficult to measure.) It would be cool if someone could check on the other areas.
 So far I have checked (to my satisfaction) that the following fits with the area of Earth:
 #Venus

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:10, 3 July 2014
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	::If you do as suggested in the explain - skin the planets (ie. for the earth cut of the crust above the mantle) then you would probably be able to flex this around a lot, even before mountains moved much (earth quakes fur sure, but not something that would alter the shape of the continents on the scale of this map). On a scale of the crust (which can be 70 km wide under continents) the mountains are generally not very high. If you leave the highest parts in the middle of the "skin" as in the earth area, then they would not need to be hammered out, for two surfaces to be stitched at the edges. In the end the map is maybe just shown for reference. How the continents looked afterwards is not important to Randall (as for Buffalo Bill in Silence of the Lambs and the original women). The surface area is stretched and cut up in order for them to fit each other. [[User:Kynde\|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde\|talk]]) 20:07, 3 July 2014 (UTC)		::If you do as suggested in the explain - skin the planets (ie. for the earth cut of the crust above the mantle) then you would probably be able to flex this around a lot, even before mountains moved much (earth quakes fur sure, but not something that would alter the shape of the continents on the scale of this map). On a scale of the crust (which can be 70 km wide under continents) the mountains are generally not very high. If you leave the highest parts in the middle of the "skin" as in the earth area, then they would not need to be hammered out, for two surfaces to be stitched at the edges. In the end the map is maybe just shown for reference. How the continents looked afterwards is not important to Randall (as for Buffalo Bill in Silence of the Lambs and the original women). The surface area is stretched and cut up in order for them to fit each other. [[User:Kynde\|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde\|talk]]) 20:07, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
	:On the scale of this map, there would be no coastline paradox. This only occurs of you wish to go into details. You just overlap the edges of each surface and sew them together. If there are a few million square meters lost here and there is is of no consequence, except for at the human skin area - but this can probably be stretched quite a bit to make it fit ;) [[User:Kynde\|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde\|talk]]) 20:07, 3 July 2014 (UTC)		:On the scale of this map, there would be no coastline paradox. This only occurs of you wish to go into details. You just overlap the edges of each surface and sew them together. If there are a few million square meters lost here and there is is of no consequence, except for at the human skin area - but this can probably be stretched quite a bit to make it fit ;) [[User:Kynde\|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde\|talk]]) 20:07, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
		+
		+	== Checking the size of the areas ==
		+
		+	I have been trying to check if Randall has drawn the areas in the correct relative size (to Earth). For instance I could find that the area of The Moon fit more than 13 but less than 14 times on top of the area of Earth (as it should do 13.5 - see new column in the table with these numbers.)
		+	Similarly I have checked that there are room for just a little more than 6 Titans on Earth, and that Earth is slightly larger than the Venus area. Also Mars have been checked against earth.
		+	It do not have to be checked against earth. For instance if Titan checks out, this can be used to check other object. In this way I have use Titan to see if the area of the moons of Jupiter and Mercury fits. Ganymede, Titan, Mercury and Callisto come in that order. And the other three fit well with Titan, as do Europa. However, I find that Io is not only half the size of Titan (as it should be, but it can be rather difficult to measure.) It would be cool if someone could check on the other areas
		+	So far I have checked (to my satisfaction) that the following fits with the area of Earth:
		+	#Venus
		+	#Mars
		+	#Ganymede
		+	#Titan
		+	#Mercury
		+	#Callisto
		+	#The Moon
		+	#Europa
		+	And only found that I'm uncertain with
		+	#Io
		+	[[User:Kynde\|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde\|talk]]) 22:10, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

@@ Line 26: / Line 26: @@
 Don't think it is strictly accurate to say that earth is included 'for scale' -- surely it is included because it qualifies to be on the map. Otherwise it's a bit like saying that Belgium is included in maps of Europe 'for scale' (as 'the size of Belgium' is a well-known unit of land area as in 'Amazonian rainforest the size of Belgium is cut down every week') -- Devonian Earache
 : The size of Belium is also famous for its reference in the Doctor Who mini-episode "Time Crash" (see http://www.chakoteya.net/doctorwho/CIN2007.htm) {{unsigned|Esp666}}
 The map of Earth doesn't look like the Waterman Butterfly projection.  If it did, the continents would be angled in toward each other, and Australia would be up in the corner.  The only thing that is even similar is that Antarctica is shown in "normal" proportions rather than stretched across the bottom. [[User:Prometheusmmiv|Prometheusmmiv]] ([[User talk:Prometheusmmiv|talk]]) 11:41, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
@@ Line 32: / Line 33: @@
 What's the area on the coast between Asteroids (1km+) and Triton? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.222.50|108.162.222.50]] 11:44, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
 :Good question. Did he forget it or...? It is way to big to be his own asteroid Asteroid 4942 Munroe ;) And much smaller even than Vesta [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:00, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
 (My first contribution here!) About the Earth/water surface issue, I think Randall is talking about planets' surface, and then it counts both earth and water (like if it were a sphere) [[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.173|173.245.52.173]] 12:31, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
@@ Line 39: / Line 41: @@
 Regarding the table, perhaps it would be better to make a separate "Surface area relative to Earth" column? Or may be just a numeric order according to size? The scientific notation of areas does not sort by ascending/descending order very well. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.62.62|173.245.62.62]] 14:09, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
 Also, the average adult skin is around 1.73 square meters. For a newborn, it is 0.25.[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_surface_area]. Very roughly estimating 1 sq. meter as the mean BSA,  we get 7 billion sq. meters, or 7000 sq. km of human skin. That would be slightly larger than the area of either Palestine or Delaware.{{unsigned ip|173.245.62.62}}
 Should there not be a pixel (or perhaps a slightly grey pixel) for Asteroid 4942 Monroe - area of about 1-3×10<sup>2</sup> Km<sup>2</sup>?? [[User:Esp666|Esp666]] ([[User talk:Esp666|talk]]) 16:34, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
@@ Line 47: / Line 50: @@
 Why are Sedna and Quaoar not included?  I mean, Sedna is so fantastically far away that I can sort of understand not including it.  But Quaoar is only 10% further from the sun than Pluto or Haumea, and it's actualy closer than Makemake! [[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.165|108.162.238.165]] 13:33, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
 :Probably because we do not yet know if they have a stable surface. They would thus be included in the Various or asteroids sections. [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:00, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
 ;Sorting
 The numerical column needs to be rewritten (preferably as two columns) in order for sorting to be useful. - [[User:Frankie|Frankie]] ([[User talk:Frankie|talk]]) 14:27, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
+:Done [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:13, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
 ----
@@ Line 64: / Line 67: @@
 I think that should be Buffalo Bill. Hannibal ate his victims, Bill sewed their skins into "clothing". --[[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.153|173.245.52.153]] 01:41, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
-Corrected, thanks [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:07, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
+:Corrected, thanks [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:07, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
 ----

@@ Line 57: / Line 57: @@
 : Perhaps this is the Earth's surface after all the bodies of water vanish? http://what-if.xkcd.com/103/
 :[[User:Wwoods|Wwoods]] ([[User talk:Wwoods|talk]]) 21:07, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
 ----
@@ Line 63: / Line 64: @@
 I think that should be Buffalo Bill. Hannibal ate his victims, Bill sewed their skins into "clothing". --[[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.153|173.245.52.153]] 01:41, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
+Corrected, thanks [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:07, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
 ----
@@ Line 70: / Line 71: @@
 Doesn't this thing suffer from the {{w|Coastline paradox}}? If that paradox applies to suface areas of 3D objects, then the surface areas of planets and other objects would be infinite or very large. Even if that is not the case, I don't think the 4*pi*r formula would work properly. [[User:Theme|Theme]] ([[User talk:Theme|talk]]) 09:40, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
 :The difficulty would lie in stretching every mountain and basin into a completely flat surface, which Randall has ignored--You'd need a space iron[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clothes_iron] to do that, besides the space needle. Even the map of our continents would be rather different if the folded surface of every geographic relief was accounted for. Also, that is why very small objects (including tiny asteroids and dust) have been ignored. [[Special:Contributions/103.22.201.239|103.22.201.239]] 11:17, 3 July 2014 (UTC)