Talk:1666: Brain Upload - Revision history

Bb777 at 14:34, 25 March 2025

2025-03-25T14:34:52Z

162.158.102.217: comment

2016-04-22T22:00:40Z

comment

TheHYPO at 14:21, 14 April 2016

2016-04-14T14:21:03Z

Elvenivle at 03:38, 13 April 2016

2016-04-13T03:38:51Z

Elvenivle at 02:18, 13 April 2016

2016-04-13T02:18:44Z

Ralfoide at 16:52, 12 April 2016

2016-04-12T16:52:53Z

Ralfoide at 16:51, 12 April 2016

2016-04-12T16:51:36Z

Davidy22 at 16:06, 12 April 2016

2016-04-12T16:06:35Z

162.158.214.139 at 15:34, 12 April 2016

2016-04-12T15:34:50Z

162.158.214.139 at 15:32, 12 April 2016

2016-04-12T15:32:34Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:34, 25 March 2025
Line 51:		Line 51:

	I propose removing the mention of the halting problem as it's completely irrelevant to the comic. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.102.217\|162.158.102.217]] 22:00, 22 April 2016 (UTC)		I propose removing the mention of the halting problem as it's completely irrelevant to the comic. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.102.217\|162.158.102.217]] 22:00, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
		+
		+	I'm always stuck decidiny wether to use "Sincerely" or not at the end of every single letter/email. --[[User:Bb777\|me]] ([[User talk:Bb777\|talk]]) 14:34, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:00, 22 April 2016
Line 49:		Line 49:
	:It's unclear why they are doing this, and this is clearly in some future setting {{Citation needed\|as this technology doesn't currently exist}}. It could be a new procedure Megan as a scientist has just invented, and she asked Cueball to be the subject. Or it could be a common procedure in this future setting (though it is perhaps not as common that the recipient computer would become unresponsive after the transfer) -- perhaps as a way of "backing up" a person's brain. If the process can work in reverse, perhaps a person could recover from brain damage. It could also be a way to become immortal in some sense, though since it's a copy rather than a transfer it's doubtful the human would feel like the copy is really them. Nevertheless, upon a person's death someone enough like him (whether on a computer or perhaps transferred to a "blank" body) could continue to live, so that he would consider that immortality.		:It's unclear why they are doing this, and this is clearly in some future setting {{Citation needed\|as this technology doesn't currently exist}}. It could be a new procedure Megan as a scientist has just invented, and she asked Cueball to be the subject. Or it could be a common procedure in this future setting (though it is perhaps not as common that the recipient computer would become unresponsive after the transfer) -- perhaps as a way of "backing up" a person's brain. If the process can work in reverse, perhaps a person could recover from brain damage. It could also be a way to become immortal in some sense, though since it's a copy rather than a transfer it's doubtful the human would feel like the copy is really them. Nevertheless, upon a person's death someone enough like him (whether on a computer or perhaps transferred to a "blank" body) could continue to live, so that he would consider that immortality.
	[[User:TheHYPO\|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO\|talk]]) 14:21, 14 April 2016 (UTC)		[[User:TheHYPO\|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO\|talk]]) 14:21, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
		+
		+	I propose removing the mention of the halting problem as it's completely irrelevant to the comic. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.102.217\|162.158.102.217]] 22:00, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:21, 14 April 2016
Line 44:		Line 44:

	Rather than immortality, this technology could be used to 'look forward' into someone's future. What happens when this consciousness is in this situation, or that one? Will it be good or bad, would it commit a crime, can it exceed its parameters and break out of the system? Can you rehabilitate a consciousness? What works? Is it psychotic? Can it be (and is it plastic enough to rebound)? Can it be tricked into revealing secrets, because if it can, you can? Can you test whether it knows if it should talk about the test, or if it even knows of one? Assuming you know yourself best, can you use it to set up your own personal improvement grounds (call it hell if you like)? All in infinitisimal real time. Lots of possibilities, while the real consciousness...all copies would think they're real...sits and waits for the work to finish. [[User:Elvenivle\|Elvenivle]] ([[User talk:Elvenivle\|talk]]) 03:38, 13 April 2016 (UTC)		Rather than immortality, this technology could be used to 'look forward' into someone's future. What happens when this consciousness is in this situation, or that one? Will it be good or bad, would it commit a crime, can it exceed its parameters and break out of the system? Can you rehabilitate a consciousness? What works? Is it psychotic? Can it be (and is it plastic enough to rebound)? Can it be tricked into revealing secrets, because if it can, you can? Can you test whether it knows if it should talk about the test, or if it even knows of one? Assuming you know yourself best, can you use it to set up your own personal improvement grounds (call it hell if you like)? All in infinitisimal real time. Lots of possibilities, while the real consciousness...all copies would think they're real...sits and waits for the work to finish. [[User:Elvenivle\|Elvenivle]] ([[User talk:Elvenivle\|talk]]) 03:38, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
		+
		+	I'm moving the following from the article to discussion as I don't believe a length discussion on the benefits and pitfalls of brain transfer is really explaining this comic:
		+
		+	:It's unclear why they are doing this, and this is clearly in some future setting {{Citation needed\|as this technology doesn't currently exist}}. It could be a new procedure Megan as a scientist has just invented, and she asked Cueball to be the subject. Or it could be a common procedure in this future setting (though it is perhaps not as common that the recipient computer would become unresponsive after the transfer) -- perhaps as a way of "backing up" a person's brain. If the process can work in reverse, perhaps a person could recover from brain damage. It could also be a way to become immortal in some sense, though since it's a copy rather than a transfer it's doubtful the human would feel like the copy is really them. Nevertheless, upon a person's death someone enough like him (whether on a computer or perhaps transferred to a "blank" body) could continue to live, so that he would consider that immortality.
		+	[[User:TheHYPO\|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO\|talk]]) 14:21, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:38, 13 April 2016
Line 42:		Line 42:
	:That's not how computers are designed, nor how the brain works :-) Besides the central processing unit there are many peripherals that behave autonomously, from discrete electronic devices like fans to the myriad of those that have their own embedded processor, including ethernet chip, keyboard, mouse, graphic card, etc. They continue working, it's just that the main CPU doesn't listen to them anymore. Similarly, the brain is not a single entity but multiple areas interconnected, one being the medulla oblongata that controls breathing and reflexes. In absence of input or overrides, it continues its job automatically, as can be seen in any patient in a coma. [[User:Ralfoide\|Ralfoide]] ([[User talk:Ralfoide\|talk]]) 16:51, 12 April 2016 (UTC)		:That's not how computers are designed, nor how the brain works :-) Besides the central processing unit there are many peripherals that behave autonomously, from discrete electronic devices like fans to the myriad of those that have their own embedded processor, including ethernet chip, keyboard, mouse, graphic card, etc. They continue working, it's just that the main CPU doesn't listen to them anymore. Similarly, the brain is not a single entity but multiple areas interconnected, one being the medulla oblongata that controls breathing and reflexes. In absence of input or overrides, it continues its job automatically, as can be seen in any patient in a coma. [[User:Ralfoide\|Ralfoide]] ([[User talk:Ralfoide\|talk]]) 16:51, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
	: ..I recently saw the physics concept that "time slows down as your velocity approaches C" means that at C your frame is timeless (one tick runs forever). If we apply that idea to a multicore computer with a master clock and individual (synchronized) CPU clocks: then time flows at the same rate for everycore. What happens if a core desyncs from the master clock (the velocity of time is still the same everywhere, but local counters skew)? A core that never ticks would appear to be locked up (or perhaps spinning forever at maximum clip), but what if that core "figures out" how to do multiple operations per tick and then only updates its ticks in relation to the other cores sometimes? Is it locked up, or just hard to see moving? [[User:Elvenivle\|Elvenivle]] ([[User talk:Elvenivle\|talk]]) 02:18, 13 April 2016 (UTC)		: ..I recently saw the physics concept that "time slows down as your velocity approaches C" means that at C your frame is timeless (one tick runs forever). If we apply that idea to a multicore computer with a master clock and individual (synchronized) CPU clocks: then time flows at the same rate for everycore. What happens if a core desyncs from the master clock (the velocity of time is still the same everywhere, but local counters skew)? A core that never ticks would appear to be locked up (or perhaps spinning forever at maximum clip), but what if that core "figures out" how to do multiple operations per tick and then only updates its ticks in relation to the other cores sometimes? Is it locked up, or just hard to see moving? [[User:Elvenivle\|Elvenivle]] ([[User talk:Elvenivle\|talk]]) 02:18, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
		+
		+	Rather than immortality, this technology could be used to 'look forward' into someone's future. What happens when this consciousness is in this situation, or that one? Will it be good or bad, would it commit a crime, can it exceed its parameters and break out of the system? Can you rehabilitate a consciousness? What works? Is it psychotic? Can it be (and is it plastic enough to rebound)? Can it be tricked into revealing secrets, because if it can, you can? Can you test whether it knows if it should talk about the test, or if it even knows of one? Assuming you know yourself best, can you use it to set up your own personal improvement grounds (call it hell if you like)? All in infinitisimal real time. Lots of possibilities, while the real consciousness...all copies would think they're real...sits and waits for the work to finish. [[User:Elvenivle\|Elvenivle]] ([[User talk:Elvenivle\|talk]]) 03:38, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

@@ Line 14: / Line 14: @@
 The irony of the comic is that uploading human consciousness is supposed to be one possible milestone toward reaching the technological singularity--either by optimizing the conscious mind to enhance its capabilities to beyond human levels and letting it enhance itself further, or, at the very least, by being able to deploy mental labor at a massive scale at the cost of hardware components (no costs in raising and educating a biological human), which would presumably increase the quality of living for people above a certain threshold of wealth (Elysium type scenario)--yet, the conscious mind that has been uploaded appears to be limited by a terribly wasteful focus on unimportant details.
 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.142.217|162.158.142.217]] 21:34, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
@@ Line 21: / Line 22: @@
 It makes sense to me - I think he means that as he has taken 20 minutes to make the choice, his mind is working slowly, so what the computer uploaded would also look like it froze. [[User:Komadori|komadori]] ([[User talk:Komadori|talk]]) 21:17, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
 ::No it is not the computer but probably Randall who used this time (or joking that he did), trying to show by this why such an upload would probably fail... [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:30, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
+: It seems perfectly reasonable to refer to a copy of your consciousness as "I" if you were intimately aware of (and narrating) your copy's actions. Interface freeze from the perspective of the expected controls may indicate autonomy (the "rogue" agent continues while master control chokes on its own timeout). Also, the observer (now the dual "I") may have the privilege of watching time go by much faster in the system's reference frame. [[User:Elvenivle|Elvenivle]] ([[User talk:Elvenivle|talk]]) 02:18, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
 ;Copy?
@@ Line 40: / Line 41: @@
 Human brain is actually constructed in way which makes extremely hard for lock up. In normal operating condition, even when you think whether to start an email with 'Hi' or 'Hey', your brain also does breathing, heart beating, it keeps your position stable (only position which you can keep stable without brain is lying on floor), it processes signals checking if you are thirsty, hungry or sleepy ... lot of work. Computer, on the other hand, can lock so hard it wouldn't be able to keep internal clocks running. Although if it's application and not operating system which is locked, you can often see mouse still moving - which requires lot of processing if it's on USB. On a related note, it's not true brain can't reboot - in most cases, human brain will automatically reboot itself by going to sleep after some period of time. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 12:38, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
 :That's not how computers are designed, nor how the brain works :-) Besides the central processing unit there are many peripherals that behave autonomously, from discrete electronic devices like fans to the myriad of those that have their own embedded processor, including ethernet chip, keyboard, mouse, graphic card, etc. They continue working, it's just that the main CPU doesn't listen to them anymore. Similarly, the brain is not a single entity but multiple areas interconnected, one being the medulla oblongata that controls breathing and reflexes. In absence of input or overrides, it continues its job automatically, as can be seen in any patient in a coma. [[User:Ralfoide|Ralfoide]] ([[User talk:Ralfoide|talk]]) 16:51, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

@@ Line 39: / Line 39: @@
 ;Reboot and not responding
 Human brain is actually constructed in way which makes extremely hard for lock up. In normal operating condition, even when you think whether to start an email with 'Hi' or 'Hey', your brain also does breathing, heart beating, it keeps your position stable (only position which you can keep stable without brain is lying on floor), it processes signals checking if you are thirsty, hungry or sleepy ... lot of work. Computer, on the other hand, can lock so hard it wouldn't be able to keep internal clocks running. Although if it's application and not operating system which is locked, you can often see mouse still moving - which requires lot of processing if it's on USB. On a related note, it's not true brain can't reboot - in most cases, human brain will automatically reboot itself by going to sleep after some period of time. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 12:38, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
-:That's not how computers are designed, nor how the brain works :-) Besides the central processing unit there are many peripherals that behave autonomously, from pure electronic devices like fans to the myriad of those that have their own embedded processor, including ethernet chip, keyboard, mouse, graphic card, etc. They continue working, it's just that the main CPU doesn't listen to them anymore. Similarly, the brain is not a single entity but multiple areas interconnected, one being the medulla oblongata that controls breathing and reflexes. In absence of input or overrides, it continues its job automatically, as can be seen in any patient in a coma. [[User:Ralfoide|Ralfoide]] ([[User talk:Ralfoide|talk]]) 16:51, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
+:That's not how computers are designed, nor how the brain works :-) Besides the central processing unit there are many peripherals that behave autonomously, from discrete electronic devices like fans to the myriad of those that have their own embedded processor, including ethernet chip, keyboard, mouse, graphic card, etc. They continue working, it's just that the main CPU doesn't listen to them anymore. Similarly, the brain is not a single entity but multiple areas interconnected, one being the medulla oblongata that controls breathing and reflexes. In absence of input or overrides, it continues its job automatically, as can be seen in any patient in a coma. [[User:Ralfoide|Ralfoide]] ([[User talk:Ralfoide|talk]]) 16:51, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:51, 12 April 2016
Line 39:		Line 39:
	;Reboot and not responding		;Reboot and not responding
	Human brain is actually constructed in way which makes extremely hard for lock up. In normal operating condition, even when you think whether to start an email with 'Hi' or 'Hey', your brain also does breathing, heart beating, it keeps your position stable (only position which you can keep stable without brain is lying on floor), it processes signals checking if you are thirsty, hungry or sleepy ... lot of work. Computer, on the other hand, can lock so hard it wouldn't be able to keep internal clocks running. Although if it's application and not operating system which is locked, you can often see mouse still moving - which requires lot of processing if it's on USB. On a related note, it's not true brain can't reboot - in most cases, human brain will automatically reboot itself by going to sleep after some period of time. -- [[User:Hkmaly\|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly\|talk]]) 12:38, 12 April 2016 (UTC)		Human brain is actually constructed in way which makes extremely hard for lock up. In normal operating condition, even when you think whether to start an email with 'Hi' or 'Hey', your brain also does breathing, heart beating, it keeps your position stable (only position which you can keep stable without brain is lying on floor), it processes signals checking if you are thirsty, hungry or sleepy ... lot of work. Computer, on the other hand, can lock so hard it wouldn't be able to keep internal clocks running. Although if it's application and not operating system which is locked, you can often see mouse still moving - which requires lot of processing if it's on USB. On a related note, it's not true brain can't reboot - in most cases, human brain will automatically reboot itself by going to sleep after some period of time. -- [[User:Hkmaly\|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly\|talk]]) 12:38, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
		+	:That's not how computers are designed, nor how the brain works :-) Besides the central processing unit there are many peripherals that behave autonomously, from pure electronic devices like fans to the myriad of those that have their own embedded processor, including ethernet chip, keyboard, mouse, graphic card, etc. They continue working, it's just that the main CPU doesn't listen to them anymore. Similarly, the brain is not a single entity but multiple areas interconnected, one being the medulla oblongata that controls breathing and reflexes. In absence of input or overrides, it continues its job automatically, as can be seen in any patient in a coma. [[User:Ralfoide\|Ralfoide]] ([[User talk:Ralfoide\|talk]]) 16:51, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

@@ Line 37: / Line 37: @@
 Also, upload != move, so I don't think crashing would affect anything. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.214.139|162.158.214.139]] 15:34, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
-== Reboot and not responding ==
+;Reboot and not responding
 Human brain is actually constructed in way which makes extremely hard for lock up. In normal operating condition, even when you think whether to start an email with 'Hi' or 'Hey', your brain also does breathing, heart beating, it keeps your position stable (only position which you can keep stable without brain is lying on floor), it processes signals checking if you are thirsty, hungry or sleepy ... lot of work. Computer, on the other hand, can lock so hard it wouldn't be able to keep internal clocks running. Although if it's application and not operating system which is locked, you can often see mouse still moving - which requires lot of processing if it's on USB. On a related note, it's not true brain can't reboot - in most cases, human brain will automatically reboot itself by going to sleep after some period of time. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 12:38, 12 April 2016 (UTC)