Talk:1909: Digital Resource Lifespan - Revision history

Dúthomhas: Info about MS’s Project Silica long-term storage

2026-03-02T21:40:51Z

Info about MS’s Project Silica long-term storage

173.245.54.123: Added a comment about HD-Rosettas

2020-03-16T02:34:30Z

Added a comment about HD-Rosettas

162.158.202.106 at 22:14, 11 November 2017

2017-11-11T22:14:39Z

NAE at 18:25, 10 November 2017

2017-11-10T18:25:30Z

162.158.88.74: corrected CD layout

2017-11-08T11:23:21Z

corrected CD layout

162.158.126.28: Books and microfilm pre-date the 1980's!

2017-11-07T14:58:42Z

Books and microfilm pre-date the 1980's!

162.158.89.61 at 13:19, 3 November 2017

2017-11-03T13:19:51Z

162.158.89.61 at 13:19, 3 November 2017

2017-11-03T13:19:14Z

162.158.89.61 at 13:12, 3 November 2017

2017-11-03T13:12:29Z

172.68.54.16 at 07:22, 3 November 2017

2017-11-03T07:22:54Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:40, 2 March 2026
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	The most reliable form of long-term backup may very well be HD-Rosetta. Which is like microfilm except etched into non-reactive metal. Unfortunately it's super-duper expensive and only a very limited number of capable of minting them even exist. On the upside they're immune to data format changes because they can be read with an ordinary light microscope [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.123\|173.245.54.123]] 02:34, 16 March 2020 (UTC)		The most reliable form of long-term backup may very well be HD-Rosetta. Which is like microfilm except etched into non-reactive metal. Unfortunately it's super-duper expensive and only a very limited number of capable of minting them even exist. On the upside they're immune to data format changes because they can be read with an ordinary light microscope [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.123\|173.245.54.123]] 02:34, 16 March 2020 (UTC)
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		+	AS OF 2019 Microsoft has been working on “Project Silica” — a purportedly 10,000+ year storage system that uses data etched (embedded!) in glass. MS’s paper about it is here: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/ProjectSilica-SOSP23.pdf [[User:Dúthomhas\|Dúthomhas]] ([[User talk:Dúthomhas\|talk]]) 21:40, 2 March 2026 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:34, 16 March 2020
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	The transcripts for the books and microfilm should state the date range as "before 1980's" to represent the arrows on the chart, just as "past ..." is used for the bars that have arrows at their right ends. I wonder if there is any significance to the fact that the arrows are done differently for "before" and "after".[[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.28\|162.158.126.28]] 14:58, 7 November 2017 (UTC)		The transcripts for the books and microfilm should state the date range as "before 1980's" to represent the arrows on the chart, just as "past ..." is used for the bars that have arrows at their right ends. I wonder if there is any significance to the fact that the arrows are done differently for "before" and "after".[[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.28\|162.158.126.28]] 14:58, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
		+
		+	The most reliable form of long-term backup may very well be HD-Rosetta. Which is like microfilm except etched into non-reactive metal. Unfortunately it's super-duper expensive and only a very limited number of capable of minting them even exist. On the upside they're immune to data format changes because they can be read with an ordinary light microscope [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.123\|173.245.54.123]] 02:34, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

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 :: Ehrm... You do realise the limitation is the other way around right? You can't run 64-bit application on 32-bit Windows, but 64-bit windows can perfectly well run 32-bit apps. Though Win 3.11 is far enough back it might actually be a fun challenge to see if it runs :D [[Special:Contributions/162.158.202.202|162.158.202.202]] 10:57, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
 :::You can not – Win 3.1(.1) was a 16bit operation system – and Microsoft dropped the 16-bit-layer in win7. --[[User:DaB.|DaB.]] ([[User talk:DaB.|talk]]) 19:18, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
 Interestingly, static .PDF files are intended to be electronic equivalents of printed books - an electronic microfiche if you will [[User:RIIW - Ponder it|RIIW - Ponder it]] ([[User talk:RIIW - Ponder it|talk]]) 18:57, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

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 Randall forgot my personal favorite: UTF-8 formatted .txt files. Since 1993 & counting, never had an issue opening one. I still have my first copy of The Anarchist's Cookbook, copied from a Kaypro II running CP/M on a 5-1/4" floppy to an 8088XT running MS-DOS on a 30mb hard drive to an IBM PS/2 286 on 20mb hard drive to an Asus 486 on a 3.5" floppy to a 1.2gHz Pentium on a 100mb Zip drive to a Core 2 Duo on a CD-R to an i7 system on a 128gb solid state drive, which was finally backed up to a 1tb hard drive & archived, as there's a newer copy to carry around. That original file still opens just fine on any PC I've ever used (including mobile).
 Also, I believe Linus Torvalds once said (talking about code, but it applies to anything sufficiently desirable) "Only wimps use tape backup, real men just upload their important stuff on ftp, and let the rest of the world mirror it ;)" I can certainly attest to that. I once made a torrent of all the Star Trek I'd accumulated (IE, all the Star Trek ever) & uploaded that. Two years later an old hard drive died & I was able to recover all 200+ gb in a little over 6 hours, simply by downloading my own torrent from other seeds. Thanks Trekkies![[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.10|162.158.75.10]] 07:22, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
 The transcripts for the books and microfilm should state the date range as "before 1980's" to represent the arrows on the chart, just as "past ..." is used for the bars that have arrows at their right ends. I wonder if there is any significance to the fact that the arrows are done differently for "before" and "after".[[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.28|162.158.126.28]] 14:58, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:23, 8 November 2017
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	::Pressed commercial CD-ROMs carry their information between two 0.6 mm thick plastic discs which are glued together, which makes them pretty resilient against scratches on either side – just remove some material with abrasive methods like toothpaste. Often the glue is the bigger issue with low-quality pressings in the long run. This is in contrast to recordable CDs, which are coated with the reflective layer on top of a single disc. –[[User:TisTheAlmondTavern\|TisTheAlmondTavern]] ([[User talk:TisTheAlmondTavern\|talk]]) 12:24, 31 October 2017 (UTC)		::Pressed commercial CD-ROMs carry their information between two 0.6 mm thick plastic discs which are glued together, which makes them pretty resilient against scratches on either side – just remove some material with abrasive methods like toothpaste. Often the glue is the bigger issue with low-quality pressings in the long run. This is in contrast to recordable CDs, which are coated with the reflective layer on top of a single disc. –[[User:TisTheAlmondTavern\|TisTheAlmondTavern]] ([[User talk:TisTheAlmondTavern\|talk]]) 12:24, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
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		+	::: CD-ROMS always carry their information directly below the reflective layer on the "printed" side of the 1.2mm disk (so around 0.1mm below the print). That's necessary because otherwise the laser would not correctly focus on the data. The recordable CDs have the problem that the reflective layer may not be 100% air resistent and so oxydise the data layer, which is a dye. It's DVDs that have two 0.6mm disks, so in theory you cold flip the DVDs like an LP and use both sides - but then you don't have a surface to print information on it (except the few square cm just around the hole). BlueRay Disks inverted the CD: now the data layer is behind a 0.1mm "thick" coating on the data side. -- [[Special:Contributions/162.158.88.74\|162.158.88.74]] 11:23, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
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	:Or cheaper than an external drive, borrow a friend's computer and copy the CD onto the cloud somewhere. --[[User:Angel\|Angel]] ([[User talk:Angel\|talk]]) 18:39, 30 October 2017 (UTC)		:Or cheaper than an external drive, borrow a friend's computer and copy the CD onto the cloud somewhere. --[[User:Angel\|Angel]] ([[User talk:Angel\|talk]]) 18:39, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:58, 7 November 2017
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	Also, I believe Linus Torvalds once said (talking about code, but it applies to anything sufficiently desirable) "Only wimps use tape backup, real men just upload their important stuff on ftp, and let the rest of the world mirror it ;)" I can certainly attest to that. I once made a torrent of all the Star Trek I'd accumulated (IE, all the Star Trek ever) & uploaded that. Two years later an old hard drive died & I was able to recover all 200+ gb in a little over 6 hours, simply by downloading my own torrent from other seeds. Thanks Trekkies![[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.10\|162.158.75.10]] 07:22, 1 November 2017 (UTC)		Also, I believe Linus Torvalds once said (talking about code, but it applies to anything sufficiently desirable) "Only wimps use tape backup, real men just upload their important stuff on ftp, and let the rest of the world mirror it ;)" I can certainly attest to that. I once made a torrent of all the Star Trek I'd accumulated (IE, all the Star Trek ever) & uploaded that. Two years later an old hard drive died & I was able to recover all 200+ gb in a little over 6 hours, simply by downloading my own torrent from other seeds. Thanks Trekkies![[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.10\|162.158.75.10]] 07:22, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
		+
		+	The transcripts for the books and microfilm should state the date range as "before 1980's" to represent the arrows on the chart, just as "past ..." is used for the bars that have arrows at their right ends. I wonder if there is any significance to the fact that the arrows are done differently for "before" and "after".[[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.28\|162.158.126.28]] 14:58, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

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 "Only to realize'''d'''"? -[[Special:Contributions/172.68.110.22|172.68.110.22]] 23:08, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
-:This is probably a typo'''ed'''.
+:This is probably a typo'''ed'''.--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.89.61|162.158.89.61]] 13:19, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 [Subject] wiki, anyone? Wikis have rather detailed analyses of even obscure topics in my line of work/study. <sub>--[[User:Nialpxe|<span style="color: #000; text-decoration: none;">Nialpxe</span>]], 2017. [[User_talk:Nialpxe|<span style="color: #000; text-decoration: none;">(Arguments welcome)</span>]]</sub> (P.S. just to be clear I mean wikis maintained by researchers and professionals in [Subject] field, not Wikipedia)

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 : Should those white left arrows be noted in the transcript?  The gray right arrows are implied by "past", perhaps something like "Before 1980-past 2020"[[Special:Contributions/162.158.63.16|162.158.63.16]] 17:39, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
-"Only to realize'''d'''? -[[Special:Contributions/172.68.110.22|172.68.110.22]] 23:08, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
+"Only to realize'''d'''"? -[[Special:Contributions/172.68.110.22|172.68.110.22]] 23:08, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
 [Subject] wiki, anyone? Wikis have rather detailed analyses of even obscure topics in my line of work/study. <sub>--[[User:Nialpxe|<span style="color: #000; text-decoration: none;">Nialpxe</span>]], 2017. [[User_talk:Nialpxe|<span style="color: #000; text-decoration: none;">(Arguments welcome)</span>]]</sub> (P.S. just to be clear I mean wikis maintained by researchers and professionals in [Subject] field, not Wikipedia)

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:12, 3 November 2017
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	::What if you don't have any friends? (or what if none of your friends has a CD drive) --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.40\|108.162.216.40]]		::What if you don't have any friends? (or what if none of your friends has a CD drive) --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.40\|108.162.216.40]]
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		+	:::You can still buy external friends that have CD drives.--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.89.61\|162.158.89.61]] 13:12, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

	: Yet something affected by that would just as likely be affected by "Broken on new OS, not updated". For example, I've got a multimedia encyclopedia which runs on Win 3.11, and thus can't run on 64-bit windows.		: Yet something affected by that would just as likely be affected by "Broken on new OS, not updated". For example, I've got a multimedia encyclopedia which runs on Win 3.11, and thus can't run on 64-bit windows.

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:22, 3 November 2017
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	I'm wondering if data on an older, static, website would still be readable. Would likely still be there (or on archive.org), but might be suffering progressive link rot. Also a little surprised that the start of microfilm is so recent; I remember the library having microfilm readers (that nobody ever used) when I was young enough to spend ages staring at a machine, trying to determine its purpose. Guess it depends on the subject, when it was put into that format. --[[User:Angel\|Angel]] ([[User talk:Angel\|talk]]) 18:39, 30 October 2017 (UTC)		I'm wondering if data on an older, static, website would still be readable. Would likely still be there (or on archive.org), but might be suffering progressive link rot. Also a little surprised that the start of microfilm is so recent; I remember the library having microfilm readers (that nobody ever used) when I was young enough to spend ages staring at a machine, trying to determine its purpose. Guess it depends on the subject, when it was put into that format. --[[User:Angel\|Angel]] ([[User talk:Angel\|talk]]) 18:39, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
		+	: archive.org returns contemporary pages for links on archived pages, so that should be still safe. The worst nightmare with archive.org is a newly-set robots.txt file: Wayback Machine will just pretend to know nothing about the page even if it has been archived in the past. It sometimes crawl pages, after all. --[[Special:Contributions/172.68.54.16\|172.68.54.16]] 07:22, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

	Angel, note both the My in the title and the left arrow implying that the resource (like books) were about before Randal had access. [[User:RIIW - Ponder it\|RIIW - Ponder it]] ([[User talk:RIIW - Ponder it\|talk]]) 18:57, 30 October 2017 (UTC)		Angel, note both the My in the title and the left arrow implying that the resource (like books) were about before Randal had access. [[User:RIIW - Ponder it\|RIIW - Ponder it]] ([[User talk:RIIW - Ponder it\|talk]]) 18:57, 30 October 2017 (UTC)