Talk:2121: Light Pollution - Revision history

172.68.65.21 at 18:53, 13 January 2021

2021-01-13T18:53:32Z

172.68.65.20 at 18:52, 13 January 2021

2021-01-13T18:52:31Z

172.69.214.20 at 01:54, 24 September 2020

2020-09-24T01:54:51Z

Comet at 20:01, 23 May 2019

2019-05-23T20:01:09Z

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2019-05-23T01:47:40Z

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2019-03-23T05:13:00Z

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These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For: Personal Anicdote

2019-03-23T05:11:07Z

Personal Anicdote

Lupo at 14:22, 15 March 2019

2019-03-15T14:22:59Z

162.158.63.244: The sky does not look like that in the suburbs!

2019-03-14T23:59:39Z

The sky does not look like that in the suburbs!

Mirror Spock: added comment about web of triangles

2019-03-13T02:32:08Z

added comment about web of triangles

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−	This looks super similar to a Stanislaw Lem story, I wonder if Randal read it? [[https://english.lem.pl/works/novels/the-cyberiad/146-how-the-world-was-saved\|story]]	+	This looks super similar to a Stanislaw Lem story, I wonder if Randal read it? [https://english.lem.pl/works/novels/the-cyberiad/146-how-the-world-was-saved story]

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	I see the sky as #3 from atop Mauna Kea, and during a rare clear night on Adak, Alaska. Also, you can tile nonEuclidean 3D spheres with regular hexagons. [[http://www.linkedin.com/in/Comet Comet]] 20:01, 23 May 2019 (UTC)		I see the sky as #3 from atop Mauna Kea, and during a rare clear night on Adak, Alaska. Also, you can tile nonEuclidean 3D spheres with regular hexagons. [[http://www.linkedin.com/in/Comet Comet]] 20:01, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
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		+	This looks super similar to a Stanislaw Lem story, I wonder if Randal read it? [[https://english.lem.pl/works/novels/the-cyberiad/146-how-the-world-was-saved\|story]]

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 [[User:AlanKilian|AlanKilian]] ([[User talk:AlanKilian|talk]]) 16:03, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
 :Six triangles form a hexagon - just an explanation for people with less mathematical or geometric knowledge. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 16:17, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
 ::but a indefinite large group of triangles doesn't automatically transform to hexagons, since it could be overlapping hexagons, or hexagons with their interim spaces filled up by triangles?--[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 16:29, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
 :::Look at that hexagons (consisting of six triangles), each fitting to the next, and you will understand that this is only possible in a plane but not in a sphere. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 16:37, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

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	: I once spent the night alongside a country road in central Pennsylvania USA (Numidia). The sky looked much closer to picture 3 than picture 2. As a lifetime city-boy, I'm still awestruck by the memory. [[User:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For\|These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For]] ([[User talk:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For\|talk]]) 05:13, 23 March 2019 (UTC)		: I once spent the night alongside a country road in central Pennsylvania USA (Numidia). The sky looked much closer to picture 3 than picture 2. As a lifetime city-boy, I'm still awestruck by the memory. [[User:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For\|These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For]] ([[User talk:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For\|talk]]) 05:13, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
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		+	I see the sky as #3 from atop Mauna Kea, and during a rare clear night on Adak, Alaska. Also, you can tile nonEuclidean 3D spheres with regular hexagons. [[http://www.linkedin.com/in/Comet Comet]] 20:01, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

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 There is no way to know that the triangles shown are equilateral (in fact, as drawn here they're quite ''un''even). All 3D renderings are in fact assembled from uneven-sided triangles, including renderings attempting to approximate rounded surfaces. And yes, you can buy a ball tiled only with triangles; they're not even-sided, but you can't tell with the naked eye. Also, there ''is'' one roughly spherical shape tiled only with equilateral triangles: It's the shape found on a 20-sided die. Skyboxes intended to minimize viewing angle distortions use triangles that are very nearly, but not quite equilateral. In fact, ''all shapes'' that use flat planes to tile a sphere can be broken down into triangles of one degree of asymmetry or another. Your argument is invalid.
 [[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 22:51, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
-:Y'all need to stop arguing about the geometry and look at this picture of a (approximation of a) sphere made out of triangular pyramids: https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjvhZHLoPTgAhXmhVQKHRLnDSwQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.zacharyabel.com%2Ftag%2Fspheres%2F&psig=AOvVaw2-zrroG1RBFI-t2GHyHt-9&ust=1552193238617042 [[User:Tplaza64|Tplaza64]] ([[User talk:Tplaza64|talk]]) 04:50, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
+:Y'all need to stop arguing about the geometry and look at this picture of a (approximation of a) sphere made out of triangular pyramids: http://blog.zacharyabel.com/tag/spheres/&psig=AOvVaw2-zrroG1RBFI-t2GHyHt-9&ust=1552193238617042 [[User:Tplaza64|Tplaza64]] ([[User talk:Tplaza64|talk]]) 04:50, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
 ::Also note that we see just small part of sky there, so it's fully possible the few deformed/missing triangles are outside of what we see. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 23:49, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
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 : Only if you restrict yourself to using equilateral triangles.  If you're allowed to vary the lengths of the edges, then the sum of angles at the center of each "hexagon" will be less than 360 degrees, causing the "hexagon" to flex into a non-planar shape.  If you're using these to construct cosmic structures, the difference needed would be minuscule and undetectable to the naked eye.  [[User:Shamino|Shamino]] ([[User talk:Shamino|talk]]) 13:03, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
-Note that you *would* see regular patterns in the cosmic Big Bang remnant radiation in some cosmological models (think of Arcade scrollers, just in 3D). Citation needed no longer: https://www.nature.com/articles/nature01944 [[Special:Contributions/198.41.242.46|198.41.242.46]] 10:29, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
+Note that you *would* see regular patterns in the cosmic Big Bang remnant radiation in some cosmological models (think of Arcade scrollers, just in 3D). Citation needed no longer: https://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0310253 [[Special:Contributions/198.41.242.46|198.41.242.46]] 10:29, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

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	:Kinda.... in a ski resort in the alps... But I guess which image looks which way then also is dependent on you screen brightness. On my laptop (right now) I do not notice a lot of red coloring on picture 3, and hardly see the milky way in picture 2. --[[User:Lupo\|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo\|talk]]) 14:22, 15 March 2019 (UTC)		:Kinda.... in a ski resort in the alps... But I guess which image looks which way then also is dependent on you screen brightness. On my laptop (right now) I do not notice a lot of red coloring on picture 3, and hardly see the milky way in picture 2. --[[User:Lupo\|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo\|talk]]) 14:22, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

−	: I once spent the night alongside a country road in central Pennsylvania USA (Numidia). The sky looked much closer to picture 3 than picture 2. As a lifetime city-boy, I'm still awestruck by the memory.	+	: I once spent the night alongside a country road in central Pennsylvania USA (Numidia). The sky looked much closer to picture 3 than picture 2. As a lifetime city-boy, I'm still awestruck by the memory. [[User:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For\|These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For]] ([[User talk:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For\|talk]]) 05:13, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

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	I rarely see the Milky Way in the suburbs, or even in the country. When I've been to very remote places where you can easily see the Milky Way, it looks about like the second illustration. I have <i>never</i> seen the Milky Way as depicted in the third illustration, especially the red coloration. I've been to remote north-eastern PA circa 1986, the desert in Canyon Lands, Utah circa 1990, Jericoacoara in Brazil, circa 2006, and Sifnos island circa 2012. Even if you argue those places aren't the most remote, my point still stands that it was in <i>those</i> places that the sky looked like illustration number two, "Suburbs", and those are <i>not</i> suburbs! And in actual suburbs, the sky does not look like that! (Has anyone ever really seen the sky look like illustration number three from the Earth?) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.63.244\|162.158.63.244]] 23:59, 14 March 2019 (UTC)larK		I rarely see the Milky Way in the suburbs, or even in the country. When I've been to very remote places where you can easily see the Milky Way, it looks about like the second illustration. I have <i>never</i> seen the Milky Way as depicted in the third illustration, especially the red coloration. I've been to remote north-eastern PA circa 1986, the desert in Canyon Lands, Utah circa 1990, Jericoacoara in Brazil, circa 2006, and Sifnos island circa 2012. Even if you argue those places aren't the most remote, my point still stands that it was in <i>those</i> places that the sky looked like illustration number two, "Suburbs", and those are <i>not</i> suburbs! And in actual suburbs, the sky does not look like that! (Has anyone ever really seen the sky look like illustration number three from the Earth?) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.63.244\|162.158.63.244]] 23:59, 14 March 2019 (UTC)larK
	:Kinda.... in a ski resort in the alps... But I guess which image looks which way then also is dependent on you screen brightness. On my laptop (right now) I do not notice a lot of red coloring on picture 3, and hardly see the milky way in picture 2. --[[User:Lupo\|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo\|talk]]) 14:22, 15 March 2019 (UTC)		:Kinda.... in a ski resort in the alps... But I guess which image looks which way then also is dependent on you screen brightness. On my laptop (right now) I do not notice a lot of red coloring on picture 3, and hardly see the milky way in picture 2. --[[User:Lupo\|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo\|talk]]) 14:22, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
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		+	: I once spent the night alongside a country road in central Pennsylvania USA (Numidia). The sky looked much closer to picture 3 than picture 2. As a lifetime city-boy, I'm still awestruck by the memory.

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:22, 15 March 2019
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	Anyone else feel the illustrations (aside from the first and last one) are misleading?		Anyone else feel the illustrations (aside from the first and last one) are misleading?
	I rarely see the Milky Way in the suburbs, or even in the country. When I've been to very remote places where you can easily see the Milky Way, it looks about like the second illustration. I have <i>never</i> seen the Milky Way as depicted in the third illustration, especially the red coloration. I've been to remote north-eastern PA circa 1986, the desert in Canyon Lands, Utah circa 1990, Jericoacoara in Brazil, circa 2006, and Sifnos island circa 2012. Even if you argue those places aren't the most remote, my point still stands that it was in <i>those</i> places that the sky looked like illustration number two, "Suburbs", and those are <i>not</i> suburbs! And in actual suburbs, the sky does not look like that! (Has anyone ever really seen the sky look like illustration number three from the Earth?) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.63.244\|162.158.63.244]] 23:59, 14 March 2019 (UTC)larK		I rarely see the Milky Way in the suburbs, or even in the country. When I've been to very remote places where you can easily see the Milky Way, it looks about like the second illustration. I have <i>never</i> seen the Milky Way as depicted in the third illustration, especially the red coloration. I've been to remote north-eastern PA circa 1986, the desert in Canyon Lands, Utah circa 1990, Jericoacoara in Brazil, circa 2006, and Sifnos island circa 2012. Even if you argue those places aren't the most remote, my point still stands that it was in <i>those</i> places that the sky looked like illustration number two, "Suburbs", and those are <i>not</i> suburbs! And in actual suburbs, the sky does not look like that! (Has anyone ever really seen the sky look like illustration number three from the Earth?) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.63.244\|162.158.63.244]] 23:59, 14 March 2019 (UTC)larK
		+	:Kinda.... in a ski resort in the alps... But I guess which image looks which way then also is dependent on you screen brightness. On my laptop (right now) I do not notice a lot of red coloring on picture 3, and hardly see the milky way in picture 2. --[[User:Lupo\|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo\|talk]]) 14:22, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

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	Has anyone noticed that the Earth Temperature Timeline is in the list of the classic comics at the bottom? I looked on the wayback machine and it looks like it appeared on March 1, but i didnt see anybody mention it on the other talk pages since. Maybe I just missed it though. [[User:Choochoobob123\|Choochoobob123]] ([[User talk:Choochoobob123\|talk]]) 13:59, 11 March 2019 (UTC)		Has anyone noticed that the Earth Temperature Timeline is in the list of the classic comics at the bottom? I looked on the wayback machine and it looks like it appeared on March 1, but i didnt see anybody mention it on the other talk pages since. Maybe I just missed it though. [[User:Choochoobob123\|Choochoobob123]] ([[User talk:Choochoobob123\|talk]]) 13:59, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
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		+	'''Misleading illustrations'''
		+
		+	Anyone else feel the illustrations (aside from the first and last one) are misleading?
		+	I rarely see the Milky Way in the suburbs, or even in the country. When I've been to very remote places where you can easily see the Milky Way, it looks about like the second illustration. I have <i>never</i> seen the Milky Way as depicted in the third illustration, especially the red coloration. I've been to remote north-eastern PA circa 1986, the desert in Canyon Lands, Utah circa 1990, Jericoacoara in Brazil, circa 2006, and Sifnos island circa 2012. Even if you argue those places aren't the most remote, my point still stands that it was in <i>those</i> places that the sky looked like illustration number two, "Suburbs", and those are <i>not</i> suburbs! And in actual suburbs, the sky does not look like that! (Has anyone ever really seen the sky look like illustration number three from the Earth?) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.63.244\|162.158.63.244]] 23:59, 14 March 2019 (UTC)larK

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 :::::But can it form a [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1365:_Inflation basketball?] [[User:Netherin5|Netherin5]] ([[User talk:Netherin5|talk]]) 17:24, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
 :Your eyes are making the hexagons up.  Some triangles would be left over if you tried to make every group of 6 triangles a hexagon.  Triangle arrays like this are commonly used in computer graphics, as they are the closest approximation to a sphere: https://mft-dev.dk/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/icosahedron_frame_sub3.gif [[Special:Contributions/162.158.79.185|162.158.79.185]] 17:25, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
 ::Not really. On a plane, there are only three {{W|tesselation|tesselations}} made only of identical regular polygons: {{W|triangular tiling}}, {{W|square tiling}} or {{W|hexagonal tiling}}. But since a regular hexagon can be divided into six equilateral triangles, the tiling in the picture can be seen as both triangular and hexagonal. The leaving out you write about may have come from another tesselation which uses hexagons and triangles, the {{W|trihexagonal tiling}}. On a sphere, there's a completely different discussion as there's no tesselations, only approximations of them. {{unsigned|Malgond}}
 There is no way to know that the triangles shown are equilateral (in fact, as drawn here they're quite ''un''even). All 3D renderings are in fact assembled from uneven-sided triangles, including renderings attempting to approximate rounded surfaces. And yes, you can buy a ball tiled only with triangles; they're not even-sided, but you can't tell with the naked eye. Also, there ''is'' one roughly spherical shape tiled only with equilateral triangles: It's the shape found on a 20-sided die. Skyboxes intended to minimize viewing angle distortions use triangles that are very nearly, but not quite equilateral. In fact, ''all shapes'' that use flat planes to tile a sphere can be broken down into triangles of one degree of asymmetry or another. Your argument is invalid.
 [[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 22:51, 8 March 2019 (UTC)