Talk:2465: Dimensional Chess - Revision history

162.158.159.42 at 13:25, 18 June 2021

2021-06-18T13:25:19Z

162.158.255.164: response to NerillDp

2021-05-25T19:57:32Z

response to NerillDp

NerillDP at 13:08, 23 May 2021

2021-05-23T13:08:02Z

Kynde at 09:53, 23 May 2021

2021-05-23T09:53:38Z

108.162.216.62: Queening pawns

2021-05-22T18:04:41Z

Queening pawns

162.158.75.94: Sample opening as white

2021-05-22T17:56:51Z

Sample opening as white

108.162.216.152: Added a variant and a comment about bishops.

2021-05-22T17:39:25Z

Added a variant and a comment about bishops.

162.158.75.220: sign

2021-05-22T17:18:03Z

sign

162.158.74.169: Agreement.

2021-05-22T17:02:58Z

Agreement.

141.101.98.94 at 06:20, 22 May 2021

2021-05-22T06:20:19Z

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 :LOL it's called a knight. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.221|162.158.75.221]] 06:08, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
 :There's at least one black piece on (its) row 3, possibly a knight, and both players have at least one of their pieces on (their) row 4. There are four obvious white pieces forward of the two starting ranks (with no obvious sign that these are established starting positions in this esoteric board*) so there may be a third black piece out there, obscured from clear view. Or more likely that black Knight's movement (two squares forward, three up, one sideways and 0+ squares in the fourth-way direction) is multiple moves (2f1u then 2u1s would be the most simple projected moves).
 :(* - The starting ranks appear to be as per 2D chess, with white's far bishop no longer in starting position, but if that's the one now in the nearest start-level 4th rank then it must not have made just one single 2D-like bishop's move to get there, nor is it obviously a pawn brought forward (2f starter then 1f second move, with or without an en-passant), so it may not be quite so simple, or else we've seen more than 4 white moves (and 3/4 black ones). Or both plus some possible exchange of pieces already.) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.131|162.158.158.131]] 22:25, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

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	Is it possible Randall is just having fun with the Explain XKCD crowd. Making an extremely complicated illustration that looks legitimate but is really just random to suggest that some things are not knowable even if they seem finite and therefore solvable. I just discovered there is no equation to find the exact perimeter of an ellipse: okay, there are many, but they are just close approximations or require infinite series of calculations. [[User:NerillDP\|NerillDP]] ([[User talk:NerillDP\|talk]]) 13:08, 23 May 2021 (UTC)		Is it possible Randall is just having fun with the Explain XKCD crowd. Making an extremely complicated illustration that looks legitimate but is really just random to suggest that some things are not knowable even if they seem finite and therefore solvable. I just discovered there is no equation to find the exact perimeter of an ellipse: okay, there are many, but they are just close approximations or require infinite series of calculations. [[User:NerillDP\|NerillDP]] ([[User talk:NerillDP\|talk]]) 13:08, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
		+	:As discussed, there is a method in Randall's "madness". As far as the perimeter of the ellipse equation, note that the same is true for the perimeter of a circle. We get around it by defining a special symbol that requires either approximation or summing an infinite series (or a similarly complex calculation). [[Special:Contributions/162.158.255.164\|162.158.255.164]] 19:57, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

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	:Question 2: is it much easier to checkmate if you have 9 queens? As an extreme example, if white has 9 queens, black has only a king, and black's king is in the middle (high-dimensional) area of the board.--[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.62\|108.162.216.62]] 18:04, 22 May 2021 (UTC)		:Question 2: is it much easier to checkmate if you have 9 queens? As an extreme example, if white has 9 queens, black has only a king, and black's king is in the middle (high-dimensional) area of the board.--[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.62\|108.162.216.62]] 18:04, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
	::Seems to me the pawn can still move then. Towards the opponents end of the board. The top and bottom of the board is not the opponents side and also not the end of the pawns ability to move. So to me this seems obviously to not be an issue. The question is if it can become a queen in any dimension when reaching the opponents side of the board. Since it can likely only go up and forward, this should be so. --[[User:Kynde\|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde\|talk]]) 09:53, 23 May 2021 (UTC)		::Seems to me the pawn can still move then. Towards the opponents end of the board. The top and bottom of the board is not the opponents side and also not the end of the pawns ability to move. So to me this seems obviously to not be an issue. The question is if it can become a queen in any dimension when reaching the opponents side of the board. Since it can likely only go up and forward, this should be so. --[[User:Kynde\|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde\|talk]]) 09:53, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
		+
		+	Is it possible Randall is just having fun with the Explain XKCD crowd. Making an extremely complicated illustration that looks legitimate but is really just random to suggest that some things are not knowable even if they seem finite and therefore solvable. I just discovered there is no equation to find the exact perimeter of an ellipse: okay, there are many, but they are just close approximations or require infinite series of calculations. [[User:NerillDP\|NerillDP]] ([[User talk:NerillDP\|talk]]) 13:08, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

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	:Question 1: how easy is it to make all your pawns into queens?--[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.62\|108.162.216.62]] 18:04, 22 May 2021 (UTC)		:Question 1: how easy is it to make all your pawns into queens?--[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.62\|108.162.216.62]] 18:04, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
	:Question 2: is it much easier to checkmate if you have 9 queens? As an extreme example, if white has 9 queens, black has only a king, and black's king is in the middle (high-dimensional) area of the board.--[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.62\|108.162.216.62]] 18:04, 22 May 2021 (UTC)		:Question 2: is it much easier to checkmate if you have 9 queens? As an extreme example, if white has 9 queens, black has only a king, and black's king is in the middle (high-dimensional) area of the board.--[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.62\|108.162.216.62]] 18:04, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
		+	::Seems to me the pawn can still move then. Towards the opponents end of the board. The top and bottom of the board is not the opponents side and also not the end of the pawns ability to move. So to me this seems obviously to not be an issue. The question is if it can become a queen in any dimension when reaching the opponents side of the board. Since it can likely only go up and forward, this should be so. --[[User:Kynde\|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde\|talk]]) 09:53, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

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	:::My best play is to try a variant of this for six white moves (which is a variant of the scholar's mate). N(c,3,0,0)?! N(d,5,0,0,0)?! B(c,4,+3,0,0)?! Q(f,3,+2,0)?! Q(f,5,0,0,0)?! Q(f,7,0)?! If black is not paying attention, and if I'm thinking about dimensions correctly, then this could result in checkmate.--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.94\|162.158.75.94]] 17:56, 22 May 2021 (UTC)		:::My best play is to try a variant of this for six white moves (which is a variant of the scholar's mate). N(c,3,0,0)?! N(d,5,0,0,0)?! B(c,4,+3,0,0)?! Q(f,3,+2,0)?! Q(f,5,0,0,0)?! Q(f,7,0)?! If black is not paying attention, and if I'm thinking about dimensions correctly, then this could result in checkmate.--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.94\|162.158.75.94]] 17:56, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
	::::If the game progresses too far (e.g. king hiding in the middle of the board), then it appears that it will either end in a draw or never end.--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.94\|162.158.75.94]] 17:56, 22 May 2021 (UTC)		::::If the game progresses too far (e.g. king hiding in the middle of the board), then it appears that it will either end in a draw or never end.--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.94\|162.158.75.94]] 17:56, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
		+
		+	Seemingly necessary rule clarification: if a pawn can no longer move due to dimensional limitations (not blocking pieces), then it becomes a queen (e.g. white pawn moves to a position which is 3 spaces above one of the starting positions for black pawns). --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.62\|108.162.216.62]] 18:04, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
		+	:Question 1: how easy is it to make all your pawns into queens?--[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.62\|108.162.216.62]] 18:04, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
		+	:Question 2: is it much easier to checkmate if you have 9 queens? As an extreme example, if white has 9 queens, black has only a king, and black's king is in the middle (high-dimensional) area of the board.--[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.62\|108.162.216.62]] 18:04, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

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	:Rooks, of course, likely just choose an axis (any single axis) to move along. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.152\|141.101.98.152]] 00:08, 22 May 2021 (UTC)		:Rooks, of course, likely just choose an axis (any single axis) to move along. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.152\|141.101.98.152]] 00:08, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
	::Or 3) Any combination of (1) and (2) above (i.e. do 2 above, but you can ignore any dimensions you don't like). But with both (2) and (3) we have an interesting issue: if white starts with B(d,2,+1)?!, (i.e. the queen's bishop moves to space d2, one floor up), then we have a bishop moving from a white square to a black square.--[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.152\|108.162.216.152]] 17:39, 22 May 2021 (UTC)		::Or 3) Any combination of (1) and (2) above (i.e. do 2 above, but you can ignore any dimensions you don't like). But with both (2) and (3) we have an interesting issue: if white starts with B(d,2,+1)?!, (i.e. the queen's bishop moves to space d2, one floor up), then we have a bishop moving from a white square to a black square.--[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.152\|108.162.216.152]] 17:39, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
		+	:::My best play is to try a variant of this for six white moves (which is a variant of the scholar's mate). N(c,3,0,0)?! N(d,5,0,0,0)?! B(c,4,+3,0,0)?! Q(f,3,+2,0)?! Q(f,5,0,0,0)?! Q(f,7,0)?! If black is not paying attention, and if I'm thinking about dimensions correctly, then this could result in checkmate.--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.94\|162.158.75.94]] 17:56, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
		+	::::If the game progresses too far (e.g. king hiding in the middle of the board), then it appears that it will either end in a draw or never end.--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.94\|162.158.75.94]] 17:56, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

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	:2) Extend to N dimensions as completely as possible (for the starting row?). Bishops can (and must) move equal amounts in ''every'' axis that applies; Knights have 1(+1,+1,..)+2 moves (or, by 2001 Monolith rules, without the squaring, 1+2+3+...etc); Pawns must diagonalise in ''every'' non-forward axis.		:2) Extend to N dimensions as completely as possible (for the starting row?). Bishops can (and must) move equal amounts in ''every'' axis that applies; Knights have 1(+1,+1,..)+2 moves (or, by 2001 Monolith rules, without the squaring, 1+2+3+...etc); Pawns must diagonalise in ''every'' non-forward axis.
	:Rooks, of course, likely just choose an axis (any single axis) to move along. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.152\|141.101.98.152]] 00:08, 22 May 2021 (UTC)		:Rooks, of course, likely just choose an axis (any single axis) to move along. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.152\|141.101.98.152]] 00:08, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
		+	::Or 3) Any combination of (1) and (2) above (i.e. do 2 above, but you can ignore any dimensions you don't like). But with both (2) and (3) we have an interesting issue: if white starts with B(d,2,+1)?!, (i.e. the queen's bishop moves to space d2, one floor up), then we have a bishop moving from a white square to a black square.--[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.152\|108.162.216.152]] 17:39, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

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 Is there an error on the top board of this image?  If I look at the sequence of squares on the vertical, they alternate black/white except for the top board.  Even if I were missing some aspect of the logic, I feel like there should be some symmetry between top and bottom. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.70|108.162.221.70]] 20:52, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
-:Agreed, there appears to be an error.
+:Agreed, there appears to be an error.--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.220|162.158.75.220]] 17:18, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
 Note that white made a horse move on the left side of the board, forward one and up two [[Special:Contributions/172.68.57.189|172.68.57.189]] 21:11, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

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	Is there an error on the top board of this image? If I look at the sequence of squares on the vertical, they alternate black/white except for the top board. Even if I were missing some aspect of the logic, I feel like there should be some symmetry between top and bottom. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.70\|108.162.221.70]] 20:52, 19 May 2021 (UTC)		Is there an error on the top board of this image? If I look at the sequence of squares on the vertical, they alternate black/white except for the top board. Even if I were missing some aspect of the logic, I feel like there should be some symmetry between top and bottom. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.70\|108.162.221.70]] 20:52, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
		+	:Agreed, there appears to be an error.

	Note that white made a horse move on the left side of the board, forward one and up two [[Special:Contributions/172.68.57.189\|172.68.57.189]] 21:11, 19 May 2021 (UTC)		Note that white made a horse move on the left side of the board, forward one and up two [[Special:Contributions/172.68.57.189\|172.68.57.189]] 21:11, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

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	not quite what is demonstrated in the comic but there is a game called 5 dimensional chess with multiverse time travel --[[Special:Contributions/172.68.57.189\|172.68.57.189]] 19:00, 19 May 2021 (UTC)		not quite what is demonstrated in the comic but there is a game called 5 dimensional chess with multiverse time travel --[[Special:Contributions/172.68.57.189\|172.68.57.189]] 19:00, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
		+	:I don't like that game, entirely because it's called 5-dimensional but actually only has four dimensions. --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.94\|141.101.98.94]] 06:20, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

	I think this would require 5 dimensions rather than 4 as the middle rows are 4d slices of a 5d space just as the second row is a 2d slice of a 3d space		I think this would require 5 dimensions rather than 4 as the middle rows are 4d slices of a 5d space just as the second row is a 2d slice of a 3d space