Talk:2557: Immunity - Revision history

42.book.addict at 17:01, 10 September 2025

2025-09-10T17:01:10Z

172.70.91.245 at 17:15, 27 April 2025

2025-04-27T17:15:06Z

Gatorized at 16:56, 27 April 2025

2025-04-27T16:56:24Z

Gatorized at 16:55, 27 April 2025

2025-04-27T16:55:22Z

162.158.159.71 at 22:47, 26 April 2022

2022-04-26T22:47:01Z

108.162.221.163: Politely disagree

2022-04-26T20:22:30Z

Politely disagree

172.70.85.73 at 17:52, 19 January 2022

2022-01-19T17:52:51Z

172.70.230.57 at 07:08, 19 January 2022

2022-01-19T07:08:30Z

172.70.85.79 at 01:27, 25 December 2021

2021-12-25T01:27:19Z

162.158.122.13 at 00:39, 25 December 2021

2021-12-25T00:39:51Z

@@ Line 50: / Line 50: @@
 To add to the pile: if you get infected, you don't have to *worry* as much about future infections. It's over with (at least psychologically). Balloon popping is bad, but it's the anticipation that's the worst part for me. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.122.13|162.158.122.13]] 00:39, 25 December 2021 (UTC)
-:That depends on if it's a "you only catch this once" thing. That's not so certain. Probably{{fact}} you can't catch a particular greek-letter-version twice, but you've got a dozen other (and potentially more later) greek letters to maybe/maybe-not fend off in future, with some variants clearly being able to at least possibly get past the protection (viral or vaccinal) that come from others.
+:That depends on if it's a "you only catch this once" thing. That's not so certain. Probably you can't catch a particular greek-letter-version twice, but you've got a dozen other (and potentially more later) greek letters to maybe/maybe-not fend off in future, with some variants clearly being able to at least possibly get past the protection (viral or vaccinal) that come from others.
 :And they also say Omicron is only half as lethal (or hospitalising) as Delta, but that may just be because many Omicron-catchers had already made themselves infectees of Delta/whatever so they 'only' get the half-unsure vulnerability of the partially-naive/partially-protecting Delta-trained immume system of those that survived the prior round.
 :And once you have more than twice as many Omicron infections because "it's not as bad as the other one", that still gives you more deaths than the 'more fatal' prior version. If you're thinking you're doing the Cowpox/Chickenpox thing of ''deliberately'' 'pre-infecting' yourself then you're just giving it more people to ''try'' to kill, yourself and any collateral infectees and (even if your individual chances are better, for whatever reason) it results in worse total statistics than if you'd been sensible until everyone possible had at least been able to be given a non-disease lesson in at least a similar-looking thing.

@@ Line 20: / Line 20: @@
 :(And, to add, if the vaccine just protected against ONE infection, where that one infection was sufficiently dangerous, it would indeed be worth it. Better than chancing the infection on a naïve immune system and hoping to come out the other side with a similarly infection-specific immune effect (c.f. annual flu waves) but without the QC and care given to the vector.) ((See, I knew it'd spark response, didn't intend to say much. Maybe I should just stay out of this until it blows over.))  [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.79|172.70.85.79]] 23:01, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
 ::Of course it is about the vaccination - this supports Randall's earlier statements for being pro vaccine, that you should get the immunity from vaccination and not from infection! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:24, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
-:::That's wrong, of course. Natural immunity is better. [[User:Gatorized|Gatorized]] ([[User talk:Gatorized|talk]]) 16:56, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
+::::That's wrong, of course. Natural immunity is better. [[User:Gatorized|Gatorized]] ([[User talk:Gatorized|talk]]) 16:56, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
 :::Hmmm, no. It's about COVID (and that by inference). It doesn't mention the vaccine. The conversation ''might'' have been about the vaccine, but the comic (and its discussion of what it is sensible to do, or not) is vaccine free. It's "anti-infection", but not directly "pro-vaccine". (He, I and you ''are'' all sensibly pro-vaccine, I think. The comic itself is only vocal on that subject by omission and a chain of logic that will never occur to those stuck at the original fallacy.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.73|172.70.85.73]] 13:06, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
@@ Line 68: / Line 69: @@
 :It's not ridiculous at all. Once you've been infected, you can't get infected again. That is good and desirable. Is Munroe stupid? [[User:Gatorized|Gatorized]] ([[User talk:Gatorized|talk]]) 16:56, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

@@ Line 20: / Line 20: @@
 :(And, to add, if the vaccine just protected against ONE infection, where that one infection was sufficiently dangerous, it would indeed be worth it. Better than chancing the infection on a naïve immune system and hoping to come out the other side with a similarly infection-specific immune effect (c.f. annual flu waves) but without the QC and care given to the vector.) ((See, I knew it'd spark response, didn't intend to say much. Maybe I should just stay out of this until it blows over.))  [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.79|172.70.85.79]] 23:01, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
 ::Of course it is about the vaccination - this supports Randall's earlier statements for being pro vaccine, that you should get the immunity from vaccination and not from infection! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:24, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
 :::Hmmm, no. It's about COVID (and that by inference). It doesn't mention the vaccine. The conversation ''might'' have been about the vaccine, but the comic (and its discussion of what it is sensible to do, or not) is vaccine free. It's "anti-infection", but not directly "pro-vaccine". (He, I and you ''are'' all sensibly pro-vaccine, I think. The comic itself is only vocal on that subject by omission and a chain of logic that will never occur to those stuck at the original fallacy.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.73|172.70.85.73]] 13:06, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
@@ Line 66: / Line 67: @@
 :Have a nice life, and remember that you're still at some (perhaps small) risk of illness or death, as are your loved ones and others in your community. You perhaps don't need to be scared of it, but be cautious. Especially if you aren't vaccinated. And even if you caught an earlier version (knowingly or otherwise) and were personally lucky. Hopefully you never get to know that you were the reason for someone's fate, in one or other bad way. But be lucky! [[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.71|162.158.159.71]] 22:47, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
-:It's not ridiculous at all. Once you've been infected, you can't get infected again. That is good and desirable. Is Munroe stupid?
+:It's not ridiculous at all. Once you've been infected, you can't get infected again. That is good and desirable. Is Munroe stupid? [[User:Gatorized|Gatorized]] ([[User talk:Gatorized|talk]]) 16:56, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:55, 27 April 2025
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	:And, no, I don't think the reaction to the Pandemic was done correctly. Often those in power made huge errors, but it could have been worse. Especially if no-one had had vaccines to be given, mRNA or otherwise.		:And, no, I don't think the reaction to the Pandemic was done correctly. Often those in power made huge errors, but it could have been worse. Especially if no-one had had vaccines to be given, mRNA or otherwise.
	:Have a nice life, and remember that you're still at some (perhaps small) risk of illness or death, as are your loved ones and others in your community. You perhaps don't need to be scared of it, but be cautious. Especially if you aren't vaccinated. And even if you caught an earlier version (knowingly or otherwise) and were personally lucky. Hopefully you never get to know that you were the reason for someone's fate, in one or other bad way. But be lucky! [[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.71\|162.158.159.71]] 22:47, 26 April 2022 (UTC)		:Have a nice life, and remember that you're still at some (perhaps small) risk of illness or death, as are your loved ones and others in your community. You perhaps don't need to be scared of it, but be cautious. Especially if you aren't vaccinated. And even if you caught an earlier version (knowingly or otherwise) and were personally lucky. Hopefully you never get to know that you were the reason for someone's fate, in one or other bad way. But be lucky! [[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.71\|162.158.159.71]] 22:47, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
		+
		+	:It's not ridiculous at all. Once you've been infected, you can't get infected again. That is good and desirable. Is Munroe stupid?

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:47, 26 April 2022
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	I see no reason to get jabbed with an experimental mRNA cocktail for a disease that almost certainly will not kill me...if it even affects me. How sure can you be of its efficacy when the experts didn't even know it would require multiple boosters when it was first available? The fact that almost all dissent toward "the narrative" is censored rather than argued makes me even more skeptical and determined. I'm sure we can all agree now that masks were almost completely worthless the whole time, right? But it's only now that we're able to even say that without fear of retribution. Anyway, this comic will NOT age well. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.163\|108.162.221.163]] 20:22, 26 April 2022 (UTC)		I see no reason to get jabbed with an experimental mRNA cocktail for a disease that almost certainly will not kill me...if it even affects me. How sure can you be of its efficacy when the experts didn't even know it would require multiple boosters when it was first available? The fact that almost all dissent toward "the narrative" is censored rather than argued makes me even more skeptical and determined. I'm sure we can all agree now that masks were almost completely worthless the whole time, right? But it's only now that we're able to even say that without fear of retribution. Anyway, this comic will NOT age well. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.163\|108.162.221.163]] 20:22, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
		+	:Let's say it won't harm you, if you catch it (not a sure thing, but, let's assume you know this to be true). But you catch it, and pass it on to someone else, and thus you have hastened someone else's death. But it does not affect you, so never mind.
		+	:As for mRNA vaccines being experimental, well they've been studied in humans for over 20 years, based upon a decade or more of prior trials, and have been theraputically used (for other things) for the best part of a decade. The general mechanism is well known.
		+	:But still, tailoring it to deal with the very real new threat (though of course you can shrug it off like a mild hangover, I hear) was done very thoroughly, all the usual safety tests were done with haste but not rushed or skipped (just compressing the "dead time" usually inevitable between stages, except when pausing to rule out silly things like death by car-accident cannot possibly be connected to the study an individual took part in, etc).
		+	:This did mean that they did not have the fuller information on 'immunity decay' (or, of course, how new variants might sneak around the protections provided) but boosters were always imagined necessary ''eventually'' to remind the body to look out for a half-forgotten or only partially matching pathogen signature. In part, the problem was whether to get boosters to people at the recommended interval (different for different products, but a few weeks to a few months was already suggested as of the first widespread injections) or to prioritise supplies towards first-injections in the wider population not yet previously having been called to be jagged.
		+	:And you seem to be arguing about the mRNA vaccines, but seem not to have said anything about having had one or other of the other varieties (which ones will depend upon your locale, but there's now a wide range of them in most countries), so either you aren't aware of them or you're equally skeptical but only think you have arguments on that one type that you consider the archetypal demon-seed.
		+	:And, as for arguments being censored, I know that plain wrong 'information' has been discouraged, to prevent the viral spread of dangerous lies, but here's me countering your points, arguing (or informing, I would prefer, but YMMV) vs. your frankly old-hat narrative that I certainly don't think should be deleted, but am happy to present (what I think is) more of a truth than your viewpoint is.
		+	:And, no, I don't think the reaction to the Pandemic was done correctly. Often those in power made huge errors, but it could have been worse. Especially if no-one had had vaccines to be given, mRNA or otherwise.
		+	:Have a nice life, and remember that you're still at some (perhaps small) risk of illness or death, as are your loved ones and others in your community. You perhaps don't need to be scared of it, but be cautious. Especially if you aren't vaccinated. And even if you caught an earlier version (knowingly or otherwise) and were personally lucky. Hopefully you never get to know that you were the reason for someone's fate, in one or other bad way. But be lucky! [[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.71\|162.158.159.71]] 22:47, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:22, 26 April 2022
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	Soooooo what's unfinished about this? It's almost a month old and the "incomplete" tag doesn't say anything descriptive about what needs to be done. And it looks pretty complete to me... [[Special:Contributions/172.70.230.57\|172.70.230.57]] 07:08, 19 January 2022 (UTC)		Soooooo what's unfinished about this? It's almost a month old and the "incomplete" tag doesn't say anything descriptive about what needs to be done. And it looks pretty complete to me... [[Special:Contributions/172.70.230.57\|172.70.230.57]] 07:08, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
	:Depends on what people need. Some might understand it all, others might take more informing. (Not that I'd know how or if I should put it in the Explanation body, but there's [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60050996 situations like this] that illustrate potential complications to the viewpoint this is tackling.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.73\|172.70.85.73]] 17:52, 19 January 2022 (UTC)		:Depends on what people need. Some might understand it all, others might take more informing. (Not that I'd know how or if I should put it in the Explanation body, but there's [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60050996 situations like this] that illustrate potential complications to the viewpoint this is tackling.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.73\|172.70.85.73]] 17:52, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
		+
		+	I see no reason to get jabbed with an experimental mRNA cocktail for a disease that almost certainly will not kill me...if it even affects me. How sure can you be of its efficacy when the experts didn't even know it would require multiple boosters when it was first available? The fact that almost all dissent toward "the narrative" is censored rather than argued makes me even more skeptical and determined. I'm sure we can all agree now that masks were almost completely worthless the whole time, right? But it's only now that we're able to even say that without fear of retribution. Anyway, this comic will NOT age well. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.163\|108.162.221.163]] 20:22, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:52, 19 January 2022
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	Soooooo what's unfinished about this? It's almost a month old and the "incomplete" tag doesn't say anything descriptive about what needs to be done. And it looks pretty complete to me... [[Special:Contributions/172.70.230.57\|172.70.230.57]] 07:08, 19 January 2022 (UTC)		Soooooo what's unfinished about this? It's almost a month old and the "incomplete" tag doesn't say anything descriptive about what needs to be done. And it looks pretty complete to me... [[Special:Contributions/172.70.230.57\|172.70.230.57]] 07:08, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
		+	:Depends on what people need. Some might understand it all, others might take more informing. (Not that I'd know how or if I should put it in the Explanation body, but there's [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60050996 situations like this] that illustrate potential complications to the viewpoint this is tackling.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.73\|172.70.85.73]] 17:52, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:08, 19 January 2022
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	:And once you have more than twice as many Omicron infections because "it's not as bad as the other one", that still gives you more deaths than the 'more fatal' prior version. If you're thinking you're doing the Cowpox/Chickenpox thing of ''deliberately'' 'pre-infecting' yourself then you're just giving it more people to ''try'' to kill, yourself and any collateral infectees and (even if your individual chances are better, for whatever reason) it results in worse total statistics than if you'd been sensible until everyone possible had at least been able to be given a non-disease lesson in at least a similar-looking thing.		:And once you have more than twice as many Omicron infections because "it's not as bad as the other one", that still gives you more deaths than the 'more fatal' prior version. If you're thinking you're doing the Cowpox/Chickenpox thing of ''deliberately'' 'pre-infecting' yourself then you're just giving it more people to ''try'' to kill, yourself and any collateral infectees and (even if your individual chances are better, for whatever reason) it results in worse total statistics than if you'd been sensible until everyone possible had at least been able to be given a non-disease lesson in at least a similar-looking thing.
	:...Oh, I don't think half the questions about all this have been answered, and won't be tied down for a while yet, but some supposed answers are clearly wishful thinking and should be easy dismiss as quackery. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.79\|172.70.85.79]] 01:27, 25 December 2021 (UTC)		:...Oh, I don't think half the questions about all this have been answered, and won't be tied down for a while yet, but some supposed answers are clearly wishful thinking and should be easy dismiss as quackery. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.79\|172.70.85.79]] 01:27, 25 December 2021 (UTC)
		+
		+	Soooooo what's unfinished about this? It's almost a month old and the "incomplete" tag doesn't say anything descriptive about what needs to be done. And it looks pretty complete to me... [[Special:Contributions/172.70.230.57\|172.70.230.57]] 07:08, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:27, 25 December 2021
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	To add to the pile: if you get infected, you don't have to worry as much about future infections. It's over with (at least psychologically). Balloon popping is bad, but it's the anticipation that's the worst part for me. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.122.13\|162.158.122.13]] 00:39, 25 December 2021 (UTC)		To add to the pile: if you get infected, you don't have to worry as much about future infections. It's over with (at least psychologically). Balloon popping is bad, but it's the anticipation that's the worst part for me. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.122.13\|162.158.122.13]] 00:39, 25 December 2021 (UTC)
		+	:That depends on if it's a "you only catch this once" thing. That's not so certain. Probably{{fact}} you can't catch a particular greek-letter-version twice, but you've got a dozen other (and potentially more later) greek letters to maybe/maybe-not fend off in future, with some variants clearly being able to at least possibly get past the protection (viral or vaccinal) that come from others.
		+	:And they also say Omicron is only half as lethal (or hospitalising) as Delta, but that may just be because many Omicron-catchers had already made themselves infectees of Delta/whatever so they 'only' get the half-unsure vulnerability of the partially-naive/partially-protecting Delta-trained immume system of those that survived the prior round.
		+	:And once you have more than twice as many Omicron infections because "it's not as bad as the other one", that still gives you more deaths than the 'more fatal' prior version. If you're thinking you're doing the Cowpox/Chickenpox thing of ''deliberately'' 'pre-infecting' yourself then you're just giving it more people to ''try'' to kill, yourself and any collateral infectees and (even if your individual chances are better, for whatever reason) it results in worse total statistics than if you'd been sensible until everyone possible had at least been able to be given a non-disease lesson in at least a similar-looking thing.
		+	:...Oh, I don't think half the questions about all this have been answered, and won't be tied down for a while yet, but some supposed answers are clearly wishful thinking and should be easy dismiss as quackery. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.79\|172.70.85.79]] 01:27, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:39, 25 December 2021
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	I think people are overcomplicating this. A common anti-covax trope you sometimes see is that natural immunity is "better than" the immunity provided by a vaccine. But it is a total non sequitur The only way the vaccine could prevent you from acquiring the coveted "natural" immunity would be if it saved you from getting infected in the first place. If you never end up infected, then I guess you didn't need the natural immunity after all. If you do get infected, well now you have it. There is no sense rushing out to get infected on purpose, which is the equivalent of refusing a vaccine. Of course, people can have many other reasons for not vaccinating, but this particular "reason" truly makes no sense.		I think people are overcomplicating this. A common anti-covax trope you sometimes see is that natural immunity is "better than" the immunity provided by a vaccine. But it is a total non sequitur The only way the vaccine could prevent you from acquiring the coveted "natural" immunity would be if it saved you from getting infected in the first place. If you never end up infected, then I guess you didn't need the natural immunity after all. If you do get infected, well now you have it. There is no sense rushing out to get infected on purpose, which is the equivalent of refusing a vaccine. Of course, people can have many other reasons for not vaccinating, but this particular "reason" truly makes no sense.
		+
		+	To add to the pile: if you get infected, you don't have to worry as much about future infections. It's over with (at least psychologically). Balloon popping is bad, but it's the anticipation that's the worst part for me. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.122.13\|162.158.122.13]] 00:39, 25 December 2021 (UTC)