Talk:2783: Ruling Out - Revision history

172.70.86.140 at 13:24, 7 June 2023

2023-06-07T13:24:39Z

172.70.91.88 at 08:53, 6 June 2023

2023-06-06T08:53:21Z

172.71.242.179: I think someone broke something bad

2023-06-05T17:06:55Z

I think someone broke something *bad*

172.71.178.139: Moved comment (not in middle of other comments) and giving a reply answer.

2023-06-05T16:46:05Z

Moved comment (not in middle of other comments) and giving a reply answer.

172.70.110.167 at 14:59, 5 June 2023

2023-06-05T14:59:47Z

172.70.110.167 at 14:59, 5 June 2023

2023-06-05T14:59:05Z

141.101.99.147: Correct, clarify.

2023-06-04T19:26:29Z

Correct, clarify.

141.101.99.147 at 19:22, 4 June 2023

2023-06-04T19:22:56Z

MDwayne: Near earth exoplanet

2023-06-04T18:52:29Z

Near earth exoplanet

SDSpivey at 18:43, 4 June 2023

2023-06-04T18:43:55Z

@@ Line 52: / Line 52: @@
 :::NASA is all well and good, when it comes to physical rocketry or the associated human-sphere of space, but I'd probably defer to the [https://arxiv.org/pdf/2203.09520.pdf IAU definition] as the (best current, terran) authority on the greater expanses of the universe. (It's hinted at, early on, but section 2.6 deals explicitly with this, then Section 3 Item 3 says it plainly, with possible modifications (that only reinforces this) in Section 4.)
 :::That also helps with "how much bigger", re: Oumuamua, I suspect. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.147|141.101.99.147]] 19:22, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
 (New comment) I added a cite for Earth not a star {{unsigned ip|172.70.110.167|14:59, 5 June 2023}}
 :In light of that, I removed the Citation Needed connected to that 'citation'. But I also made the link not include the highlight text bit (you've gone to the top link on a Google search, I imagine?) and also turned it into a much more aesthetic straight text link rather than a <sup>[number]</sup> thing that did it no favours. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.139|172.71.178.139]] 16:46, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

@@ Line 16: / Line 16: @@
 :::I don't see much difference between the two ways of putting it (unless you think your one means seeing the 'orbital rails' upon which everything encircles things, or something).
 :::Maybe, though, a fairly visible (lunar-sized) satellite of Mars/Venus might be on the edge of discernability (not needing Galileo's assisted view of the Saturnian system, just the kind of patience that raw-eyeballing astronomers used with discerning 'close' stars from each other) thus demonstrating non-geocentrism much earlier and easier and somewhat more undeniable. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.242.128|172.71.242.128]] 17:29, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
 ::::My proposed question was meant to clarify, so it shouldn't be much different :-) I don't know what the answer would be, but my hope was to clear up that the question wasn't simply "What would it look like if the Earth revolved around the sun?" which is what I had originally interpreted the question as before I decided that it probably wasn't the question that was meant to be asked [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.90|172.70.210.90]] 17:40, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
 :::::Maybe clunkily given here (really we need to see the original Q, not the half-recalled paraphrasing so many years after) but "in order to make it obvious that everything revolves around the [S]un" doesn't look like what you say you first read it as. So to bad writing (capital 'S'!) perhaps add bad reading, I suspect. But we're all fallible. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.171|172.70.91.171]] 17:57, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

@@ Line 2: / Line 2: @@
 Wow. the amount of citation needed tags is excessive. Here's a fun idea, do like that SMBC comic and actually find and give citations. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.70.72|172.69.70.72]] 19:41, 31 May 2023 (UTC)Bumpf
-:Definitely. I fixed one (it should have been ''after'' the comma), during some other edits, but was sorely tempted to remove maybe two of them to just keep the funniest one(s). Whichever that(/they) might be. I expect they'll almost all evaporate in a future edit, though, as there's plenty of editting bound to be done.
+:Definitely. I fixed one (it should have been ''after'' the comma), during some other edits, but was sorely tempted to remove maybe two of them to just keep the funniest one(s). Whichever that(/they) might be. I expect they'll almost all evaporate in a future edit, though, as there's plenty of editting bound to be done. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.219|172.70.90.219]] 19:47, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
 ::Nice work to whomever on that! Xkcd never fails to make me smile if not LOL, and Explainxkcd never fails to teach cool facts. o7 [[Special:Contributions/172.69.134.147|172.69.134.147]] 21:28, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
@@ Line 52: / Line 52: @@
 :::That also helps with "how much bigger", re: Oumuamua, I suspect. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.147|141.101.99.147]] 19:22, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
-(New comment) I added a cite for Earth not a star [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.219|172.70.90.219]] 19:47, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
+(New comment) I added a cite for Earth not a star {{unsigned ip|172.70.110.167|14:59, 5 June 2023}}
 :In light of that, I removed the Citation Needed connected to that 'citation'. But I also made the link not include the highlight text bit (you've gone to the top link on a Google search, I imagine?) and also turned it into a much more aesthetic straight text link rather than a <sup>[number]</sup> thing that did it no favours. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.139|172.71.178.139]] 16:46, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

@@ Line 4: / Line 4: @@
 :Definitely. I fixed one (it should have been ''after'' the comma), during some other edits, but was sorely tempted to remove maybe two of them to just keep the funniest one(s). Whichever that(/they) might be. I expect they'll almost all evaporate in a future edit, though, as there's plenty of editting bound to be done.
 ::Nice work to whomever on that! Xkcd never fails to make me smile if not LOL, and Explainxkcd never fails to teach cool facts. o7 [[Special:Contributions/172.69.134.147|172.69.134.147]] 21:28, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
@@ Line 54: / Line 51: @@
 :::NASA is all well and good, when it comes to physical rocketry or the associated human-sphere of space, but I'd probably defer to the [https://arxiv.org/pdf/2203.09520.pdf IAU definition] as the (best current, terran) authority on the greater expanses of the universe. (It's hinted at, early on, but section 2.6 deals explicitly with this, then Section 3 Item 3 says it plainly, with possible modifications (that only reinforces this) in Section 4.)
 :::That also helps with "how much bigger", re: Oumuamua, I suspect. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.147|141.101.99.147]] 19:22, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

@@ Line 4: / Line 4: @@
 :Definitely. I fixed one (it should have been ''after'' the comma), during some other edits, but was sorely tempted to remove maybe two of them to just keep the funniest one(s). Whichever that(/they) might be. I expect they'll almost all evaporate in a future edit, though, as there's plenty of editting bound to be done.
-(New comment) I added a tag for Earth not a star
+(New comment) I added a cite for Earth not a star
 [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.219|172.70.90.219]] 19:47, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

@@ Line 48: / Line 48: @@
 ::Interesting response to my mildly sarcastic jab at part of the comic's content. I'm not sure, however, if your thesis statement about the definition of an exoplanet is set. Contradicting the claim that Wikipedia suggests a rogue planet cannot be an exoplanet, NASA suggests it is:[http://exoplanets.nasa.gov/what-is-an-exoplanet/overview/#:~:text=An%20exoplanet%20is%20any%20planet,are%20untethered%20to%20any%20star NASA Exoplanet] - in terms of this type of stuff, I give NASA an edge as a reference.
 ::With regards to any event that could happen, even if it is rare, still has a non-zero probability of happening. Who conceived we would witness Oumuamua? How much bigger would it have to be to be a planet? So, in the spirit of the topic, maybe it '''COULD''' be a legitimate area of study.[[User:MDwayne|MDwayne.ca]] ([[User talk:MDwayne|talk]]) 18:52, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
-:::NASA is all well and good, when it comes to physical rocketry or the associated human-sphere of space, but I'd probably defer to thr [https://arxiv.org/pdf/2203.09520.pdf IAU definition] as the authority on the greater expanses of the universe. (It's hinted at, early on, but section 2.6 deals explicitly with this, then Section 3 Item 3 says it plainly, with possible modifications (that only reinforces this) in Section 4.)
+:::NASA is all well and good, when it comes to physical rocketry or the associated human-sphere of space, but I'd probably defer to the [https://arxiv.org/pdf/2203.09520.pdf IAU definition] as the (best current, terran) authority on the greater expanses of the universe. (It's hinted at, early on, but section 2.6 deals explicitly with this, then Section 3 Item 3 says it plainly, with possible modifications (that only reinforces this) in Section 4.)
 :::That also helps with "how much bigger", re: Oumuamua, I suspect. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.147|141.101.99.147]] 19:22, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:22, 4 June 2023
Line 48:		Line 48:
	::Interesting response to my mildly sarcastic jab at part of the comic's content. I'm not sure, however, if your thesis statement about the definition of an exoplanet is set. Contradicting the claim that Wikipedia suggests a rogue planet cannot be an exoplanet, NASA suggests it is:[http://exoplanets.nasa.gov/what-is-an-exoplanet/overview/#:~:text=An%20exoplanet%20is%20any%20planet,are%20untethered%20to%20any%20star NASA Exoplanet] - in terms of this type of stuff, I give NASA an edge as a reference.		::Interesting response to my mildly sarcastic jab at part of the comic's content. I'm not sure, however, if your thesis statement about the definition of an exoplanet is set. Contradicting the claim that Wikipedia suggests a rogue planet cannot be an exoplanet, NASA suggests it is:[http://exoplanets.nasa.gov/what-is-an-exoplanet/overview/#:~:text=An%20exoplanet%20is%20any%20planet,are%20untethered%20to%20any%20star NASA Exoplanet] - in terms of this type of stuff, I give NASA an edge as a reference.
	::With regards to any event that could happen, even if it is rare, still has a non-zero probability of happening. Who conceived we would witness Oumuamua? How much bigger would it have to be to be a planet? So, in the spirit of the topic, maybe it '''COULD''' be a legitimate area of study.[[User:MDwayne\|MDwayne.ca]] ([[User talk:MDwayne\|talk]]) 18:52, 4 June 2023 (UTC)		::With regards to any event that could happen, even if it is rare, still has a non-zero probability of happening. Who conceived we would witness Oumuamua? How much bigger would it have to be to be a planet? So, in the spirit of the topic, maybe it '''COULD''' be a legitimate area of study.[[User:MDwayne\|MDwayne.ca]] ([[User talk:MDwayne\|talk]]) 18:52, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
		+	:::NASA is all well and good, when it comes to physical rocketry or the associated human-sphere of space, but I'd probably defer to thr [https://arxiv.org/pdf/2203.09520.pdf IAU definition] as the authority on the greater expanses of the universe. (It's hinted at, early on, but section 2.6 deals explicitly with this, then Section 3 Item 3 says it plainly, with possible modifications (that only reinforces this) in Section 4.)
		+	:::That also helps with "how much bigger", re: Oumuamua, I suspect. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.147\|141.101.99.147]] 19:22, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:52, 4 June 2023
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	:Its page on Wikipedia is {{w\|Rogue planet}}, as you named it, though I would gravitate (NPI!) towards the term Nomad. And noting that the category "Exoplanets" tends to exclude planetary-mass bodies unbound to extrasolar stars, so already really something else. (If we get better at studying them, perhaps ejected ones, i.e. "ex-exoplanets", ''might'' be brought into the fold, but any actual "failed sub-brown-dwarf" bodies were never planets to start with.)		:Its page on Wikipedia is {{w\|Rogue planet}}, as you named it, though I would gravitate (NPI!) towards the term Nomad. And noting that the category "Exoplanets" tends to exclude planetary-mass bodies unbound to extrasolar stars, so already really something else. (If we get better at studying them, perhaps ejected ones, i.e. "ex-exoplanets", ''might'' be brought into the fold, but any actual "failed sub-brown-dwarf" bodies were never planets to start with.)
	:Such an itinerant visitor (unless it is lucky and somehow snags a gravitational reverse-slingshot to try at least a few orbits to try to become a new Solar planet; or we're unlucky enough that it collides with/deflects one or other of the current contingent and causes ourselves problems of some degree or other) would probably zoom through our system and out pretty quickly (in observational terms), and if it was happening frequentlt then the purturbations would probably be identified as aperiodic/randomly-orientated influences, so we're probably not likely to get one to even try to falsify that particular statement. Never say never but, even if you want to argue terminology, you might have to wait a while before seeing a non-solar planet do a "Bronson Beta/Zyra" (When Worlds Collide) and pass through, with or without the damage of the Bronson Alpha/Bellus partner. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.160\|172.70.162.160]] 16:58, 4 June 2023 (UTC)		:Such an itinerant visitor (unless it is lucky and somehow snags a gravitational reverse-slingshot to try at least a few orbits to try to become a new Solar planet; or we're unlucky enough that it collides with/deflects one or other of the current contingent and causes ourselves problems of some degree or other) would probably zoom through our system and out pretty quickly (in observational terms), and if it was happening frequentlt then the purturbations would probably be identified as aperiodic/randomly-orientated influences, so we're probably not likely to get one to even try to falsify that particular statement. Never say never but, even if you want to argue terminology, you might have to wait a while before seeing a non-solar planet do a "Bronson Beta/Zyra" (When Worlds Collide) and pass through, with or without the damage of the Bronson Alpha/Bellus partner. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.160\|172.70.162.160]] 16:58, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
		+
		+	::Interesting response to my mildly sarcastic jab at part of the comic's content. I'm not sure, however, if your thesis statement about the definition of an exoplanet is set. Contradicting the claim that Wikipedia suggests a rogue planet cannot be an exoplanet, NASA suggests it is:[http://exoplanets.nasa.gov/what-is-an-exoplanet/overview/#:~:text=An%20exoplanet%20is%20any%20planet,are%20untethered%20to%20any%20star NASA Exoplanet] - in terms of this type of stuff, I give NASA an edge as a reference.
		+	::With regards to any event that could happen, even if it is rare, still has a non-zero probability of happening. Who conceived we would witness Oumuamua? How much bigger would it have to be to be a planet? So, in the spirit of the topic, maybe it '''COULD''' be a legitimate area of study.[[User:MDwayne\|MDwayne.ca]] ([[User talk:MDwayne\|talk]]) 18:52, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

@@ Line 32: / Line 32: @@
 I think the entire point of including “habitable-zone quasars” was completely missed so far. It’s not that a quasar can’t have a habitable zone near it, even if that’s unlikely, nor is it that a quasar couldn’t be in a star’s habitable zone. It’s that SO WHAT IF IT IS? You couldn’t inhabit a quasar regardless what ‘zone’ it was in. If you were looking for a new home, you’d look at homes within a price range you could afford (not too expensive, but not TOO cheap). Looking for a quasar in the habitable zone of a star would be like asking a realtor to show you an active volcano within your price range. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.155|172.69.33.155]] 20:13, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
 :Well ... "active volcano within my price range" is exactly what traditional Evil Overlord asks for. The smarter ones ask for volcanos which are non-active but can be made looking active. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 20:55, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
-::Volcano?!? Most of us can't even afford a sinkhole.
+::Volcano?!? Most of us can't even afford a sinkhole. [[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 16:31, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
 :::You need to up your evil overlord game, Zarquon. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.166.54|162.158.166.54]] 20:44, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
 Given the text at the bottom of the drawing, this also sounds like a reference to Hempel's paradox (aka raven paradox) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raven_paradox

Talk:2783: Ruling Out - Revision history

172.70.86.140 at 13:24, 7 June 2023

172.70.91.88 at 08:53, 6 June 2023

172.71.242.179: I think someone broke something *bad*

172.71.178.139: Moved comment (not in middle of other comments) and giving a reply answer.

172.70.110.167 at 14:59, 5 June 2023

172.70.110.167 at 14:59, 5 June 2023

141.101.99.147: Correct, clarify.

141.101.99.147 at 19:22, 4 June 2023

MDwayne: Near earth exoplanet

SDSpivey at 18:43, 4 June 2023

172.71.242.179: I think someone broke something bad