Talk:2908: Moon Armor Index - Revision history

Psychoticpotato at 21:37, 6 May 2024

2024-05-06T21:37:47Z

EebstertheGreat at 05:45, 23 April 2024

2024-04-23T05:45:41Z

172.70.91.12: Tweaks

2024-03-21T21:30:26Z

Tweaks

172.70.91.11 at 21:27, 21 March 2024

2024-03-21T21:27:09Z

172.71.242.175 at 21:25, 21 March 2024

2024-03-21T21:25:02Z

172.70.39.42: Think bigger

2024-03-21T18:45:44Z

Think bigger

172.69.194.61 at 15:26, 20 March 2024

2024-03-20T15:26:24Z

172.70.111.45: mars comment

2024-03-20T13:58:10Z

mars comment

172.68.144.140: indent

2024-03-20T08:08:50Z

indent

172.68.64.133 at 08:07, 20 March 2024

2024-03-20T08:07:19Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:37, 6 May 2024
Line 6:		Line 6:

	Bing was wrong, it screwed up the units [[Special:Contributions/172.70.38.181\|172.70.38.181]] 23:39, 18 March 2024 (UTC)!		Bing was wrong, it screwed up the units [[Special:Contributions/172.70.38.181\|172.70.38.181]] 23:39, 18 March 2024 (UTC)!
		+	:Ew, you use Bing? [[User:Psychoticpotato\|Psychoticpotato]] ([[User talk:Psychoticpotato\|talk]]) 21:37, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

	Anyone figure out if this takes the recently-discovered moons into account? I'd expect as much but it would make a good addition to the explanation. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.131.155\|172.70.131.155]] 01:39, 19 March 2024 (UTC)		Anyone figure out if this takes the recently-discovered moons into account? I'd expect as much but it would make a good addition to the explanation. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.131.155\|172.70.131.155]] 01:39, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

@@ Line 25: / Line 25: @@
 :It certainly initially looks like the '≈'ing of the result holds fairly well under even the two most extreme examples (cases of particularly large moons-by-volume). And, at a certain point, a planet's (single largest) moon cannot be made bigger without drifting into double-planet territory (indeed, Pluto/Charon may be considered double-dwarfs!), and then, soon after, you're switching their roles around and dismantling the 'planet' (really a moon) to armour the 'moon' (now the planet). So that probably suggests we're at our limit, with twin-binary capping our one-satellite scenarios, until you get into 'busy' N-ary systems with many not-insignificant moons but somehow an identifiable 'main body' planet in the midst of them.
 :I don't think "armour the Sun with all the planets (''and'' their moons), dwarf-planets, minor-planets, random detritus, etc" will strain that relationship. Top of my head estimate is that it'd be nowhere near as high as Earth/Pluto examples, if the Oort cloud isn't oddly massive in total. But someone can correct me if I've goofed or overly hand-waved something. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.195.118|172.69.195.118]] 06:35, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 I'm glad there are at least links to them, but shouldn’t there be at least ONE sentence HERE on explainxkcd saying what the heck the last five ‘worlds’ are? I’d bet that’s what most people needing an explanation come here to find out! and all there are are links. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.186.98|162.158.186.98]] 09:59, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

@@ Line 55: / Line 55: @@
 :**The next 30 bodies contribute a little over 419m, of which Earth is 178m, Venus the next 153m, Mars 27m, from then on it very quickly becomes pocket-change (4.4cm, the last on my list)
 :**I doubt we can do that much more with the cumulative <400km objects, and Kuiper and Oort objects (so far uncounted) might not help significantly.
-:**The "new Planet 9" (post-Lovell 'Planet X') might do a ''little'' bit more, if it exists. It's supposed to be Super-Earth size, by those who think it's there to be found. That's perhaps 8-64 times Earth's volume, adding 1.5-11km to this particular estimate of Sun-armour.
+:**The "new Planet 9" (post-Lovell 'Planet X') might do a ''little'' bit more, if it exists. It's supposed to be Super-Earth size, by those who think it's there to be found (and, if it isn't perhaps the same missing mass (and volume) is there in a lot of snaller trans-Neptunian objects, so still worth quoting). That's perhaps 8-64 times Earth's volume, adding 1.5-11km to this particular estimate of Sun-armour.
-:I'm a little surprised it was that much, actually, I expected it to be thinner just from thinking about how the Sun had so much surface. But it looks like I underestimated the gas-giant contribution, until I got my hands on hard numbers. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.242.175|172.71.242.175]] 21:25, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
+:I'm a little surprised it was that much, actually, I expected it to be thinner just from thinking about how the Sun had so much surface to spread the planets over. But it looks like I underestimated the gas-giant contribution, until I got my hands on hard numbers. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.242.175|172.71.242.175]] 21:25, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

@@ Line 55: / Line 55: @@
 :**The next 30 bodies contribute a little over 419m, of which Earth is 178m, Venus the next 153m, Mars 27m, from then on it very quickly becomes pocket-change (4.4cm, the last on my list)
 :**I doubt we can do that much more with the cumulative <400km objects, and Kuiper and Oort objects (so far uncounted) might not help significantly.
-:**The "new Planet 9" (post-Lovell 'Planet X') might do a ''little' bit more, if it exists. It's supposed to be Super-Earth size, by those who think it's there to be found. That's perhaps 8-64 times Earth's volume, adding 1.5-11km to this particular estimate of Sun-armour.
+:**The "new Planet 9" (post-Lovell 'Planet X') might do a ''little'' bit more, if it exists. It's supposed to be Super-Earth size, by those who think it's there to be found. That's perhaps 8-64 times Earth's volume, adding 1.5-11km to this particular estimate of Sun-armour.
 :I'm a little surprised it was that much, actually, I expected it to be thinner just from thinking about how the Sun had so much surface. But it looks like I underestimated the gas-giant contribution, until I got my hands on hard numbers. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.242.175|172.71.242.175]] 21:25, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:25, 21 March 2024
Line 43:		Line 43:

	How thick would the armor be around the Sun, if the rest of the Solar System's mass, including the Oort Cloud, were used? Before it turns to plasma, that is. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.39.42\|172.70.39.42]] 18:45, 21 March 2024 (UTC)		How thick would the armor be around the Sun, if the rest of the Solar System's mass, including the Oort Cloud, were used? Before it turns to plasma, that is. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.39.42\|172.70.39.42]] 18:45, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
		+	:Let's try and use the Munrovian approximation:
		+	:*Solar surface: 6.09×10<sup>12</sup> ''or'' 6.078×10<sup>12</sup> km² (I get at least two different figures, depending on where on wikipedia I look)
		+	:*System Volume:
		+	:**Sun is 1.412×10<sup>18</sup> ''or'' 1.409×10<sup>18</sup> km³, for reference, but we don't actually count that. It contains 99.86% of the mass, but complex density pigeonholing makes that not any easy fact to derive from.
		+	:**I can add up to 2.387×10<sup>15</sup> volume from the largest objects (down to 400km in radius), after that is extreme guesswork, even of what objects we might not know of.
		+	:***Which means that 0.17% of the system's volume (so far counted) is not in the Sun, in case you're interested.
		+	:**What we don't know enough about, I'm not sure we can easily estimate...
		+	:*Volume/Surface=393ish km
		+	:**The first 235km is Jupiter (assuming we can do this with all that gas)
		+	:**Add the other three gas giants, we get to 392km
		+	:**The next 30 bodies contribute a little over 419m, of which Earth is 178m, Venus the next 153m, Mars 27m, from then on it very quickly becomes pocket-change (4.4cm, the last on my list)
		+	:**I doubt we can do that much more with the cumulative <400km objects, and Kuiper and Oort objects (so far uncounted) might not help significantly.
		+	:**The "new Planet 9" (post-Lovell 'Planet X') might do a ''little' bit more, if it exists. It's supposed to be Super-Earth size, by those who think it's there to be found. That's perhaps 8-64 times Earth's volume, adding 1.5-11km to this particular estimate of Sun-armour.
		+	:I'm a little surprised it was that much, actually, I expected it to be thinner just from thinking about how the Sun had so much surface. But it looks like I underestimated the gas-giant contribution, until I got my hands on hard numbers. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.242.175\|172.71.242.175]] 21:25, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:45, 21 March 2024
Line 41:		Line 41:
	I wasn't aware that Phobos and Deimos are so tiny. Neat! [[Special:Contributions/172.70.111.45\|172.70.111.45]] 13:58, 20 March 2024 (UTC)		I wasn't aware that Phobos and Deimos are so tiny. Neat! [[Special:Contributions/172.70.111.45\|172.70.111.45]] 13:58, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
	:Of those we know, Phobos is listed at somewhere around 80th-or-more by size (and Deimos 90th-or-more), depending upon what you count as a moon (and any more discoveries we may be making). Both smaller than Pluto's largest two-or-three satellites (Charon, if you count it as such, plus Hydra and Nix), and and a significant number of major asteroids. At some point, we're going to be more certain whether they were actually originally Mars-crossing asteroids/similar that ended up captured, or a different origin. All indeed interesting, if it piques your interest. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.194.61\|172.69.194.61]] 15:26, 20 March 2024 (UTC)		:Of those we know, Phobos is listed at somewhere around 80th-or-more by size (and Deimos 90th-or-more), depending upon what you count as a moon (and any more discoveries we may be making). Both smaller than Pluto's largest two-or-three satellites (Charon, if you count it as such, plus Hydra and Nix), and and a significant number of major asteroids. At some point, we're going to be more certain whether they were actually originally Mars-crossing asteroids/similar that ended up captured, or a different origin. All indeed interesting, if it piques your interest. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.194.61\|172.69.194.61]] 15:26, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
		+
		+	How thick would the armor be around the Sun, if the rest of the Solar System's mass, including the Oort Cloud, were used? Before it turns to plasma, that is. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.39.42\|172.70.39.42]] 18:45, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:26, 20 March 2024
Line 40:		Line 40:

	I wasn't aware that Phobos and Deimos are so tiny. Neat! [[Special:Contributions/172.70.111.45\|172.70.111.45]] 13:58, 20 March 2024 (UTC)		I wasn't aware that Phobos and Deimos are so tiny. Neat! [[Special:Contributions/172.70.111.45\|172.70.111.45]] 13:58, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
		+	:Of those we know, Phobos is listed at somewhere around 80th-or-more by size (and Deimos 90th-or-more), depending upon what you count as a moon (and any more discoveries we may be making). Both smaller than Pluto's largest two-or-three satellites (Charon, if you count it as such, plus Hydra and Nix), and and a significant number of major asteroids. At some point, we're going to be more certain whether they were actually originally Mars-crossing asteroids/similar that ended up captured, or a different origin. All indeed interesting, if it piques your interest. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.194.61\|172.69.194.61]] 15:26, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:58, 20 March 2024
Line 38:		Line 38:

	Since as far as we currently know, there is no life on the other planets, isn't rather biocentric to suggests that the preservation of life is relevant to protecting the planet earth? (Intended as humor, if you didn't get it.) [[User:Inquirer\|Inquirer]] ([[User talk:Inquirer\|talk]]) 00:22, 20 March 2024 (UTC)		Since as far as we currently know, there is no life on the other planets, isn't rather biocentric to suggests that the preservation of life is relevant to protecting the planet earth? (Intended as humor, if you didn't get it.) [[User:Inquirer\|Inquirer]] ([[User talk:Inquirer\|talk]]) 00:22, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
		+
		+	I wasn't aware that Phobos and Deimos are so tiny. Neat! [[Special:Contributions/172.70.111.45\|172.70.111.45]] 13:58, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

@@ Line 29: / Line 29: @@
 :I added a sentence about the trans-Neptunian dwarf planets. But I don't know why Randall left out Makemake, Orcus and Sedna... any hypotheses? [[User:Transgalactic|Transgalactic]] ([[User talk:Transgalactic|talk]]) 12:20, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 ::I don't know this for a fact, but is it possible that those objects have no known moons to contribute any armor thickness?  [[User:Ianrbibtitlht|Ianrbibtitlht]] ([[User talk:Ianrbibtitlht|talk]]) 13:06, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
-:::Makemake has a small moon.
+:::Makemake has a small moon. Orcus has a fairly large moon relative to is size, similar to Pluto. I'm slightly bitter that Salacia is here guven that astronomers don't even consider it a dwarf planet. Orcus is also much more interesting. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.64.133|172.68.64.133]] 08:07, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
 Imagining (especially) the gas planet examples, and some sort of mechanical means (partly overlapping plates of 'moon armour', that can slide over each other, remaining gas-tight?) allowing free vertical moment, I'm wondering how much the shell could contain and actually compress the predominantly atmospheric mass below it. Not being in orbit (perhaps give it the nominal gas-cloud spin), having chosen the amount of atmosphere it sits upon it'll not really be held up by the previously uncapped atmosphere, but as it falls inwards it must eventually pressurise the volume within until it equalises against the hermetic (and magically balanced, to not crumple and fold inwards irregularly) shielding material... [[Special:Contributions/172.69.194.21|172.69.194.21]] 16:14, 19 March 2024 (UTC)