Talk:2969: Vice President First Names - Revision history

172.68.70.135: /* observation about related trends /

2024-08-16T13:05:37Z

/* observation about related trends /

162.158.63.159 at 19:46, 8 August 2024

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162.158.62.116 at 19:45, 8 August 2024

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172.70.134.216 at 13:19, 8 August 2024

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172.70.86.145 at 11:49, 8 August 2024

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172.70.86.145 at 11:49, 8 August 2024

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172.70.86.231 at 11:04, 8 August 2024

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172.68.186.129 at 09:42, 8 August 2024

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172.68.186.129 at 09:40, 8 August 2024

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172.68.186.128 at 09:39, 8 August 2024

2024-08-08T09:39:37Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:05, 16 August 2024
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	"Product naming also began to simplify in the late 20th century, driven by marketing strategies that favored brevity and memorability, exemplified by Apple's iconic "iMac" and "iPhone" products (again, cf. names like "Tandy 1000", "Ford F 500" or "Little Debbie's Oatmeal Creme Pies")." This feels cherry picked and apples-to-oranges. Referring to the iMac and iPhone product names in comparison to the combined brand and product name doesn't seem like a useful way to do it. F-500 is as short visually (if not syllabically) as iMac or iPhone, and while people mostly wouldn't have referred to a "1000" like they would an iPhone, Tandy 1000 seems pretty comparable to Apple iPhone. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.116\|162.158.62.116]] 19:45, 8 August 2024 (UTC)		"Product naming also began to simplify in the late 20th century, driven by marketing strategies that favored brevity and memorability, exemplified by Apple's iconic "iMac" and "iPhone" products (again, cf. names like "Tandy 1000", "Ford F 500" or "Little Debbie's Oatmeal Creme Pies")." This feels cherry picked and apples-to-oranges. Referring to the iMac and iPhone product names in comparison to the combined brand and product name doesn't seem like a useful way to do it. F-500 is as short visually (if not syllabically) as iMac or iPhone, and while people mostly wouldn't have referred to a "1000" like they would an iPhone, Tandy 1000 seems pretty comparable to Apple iPhone. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.116\|162.158.62.116]] 19:45, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
		+
		+	There is a slightly stronger correlation considering monosyllabic names. "George" extends the observed trend to 1980 and adds two more Presidents to the tally. Meanwhile, "JD" would no longer qualify but that race is as yet undecided. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.70.135\|172.68.70.135]] 13:05, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:46, 8 August 2024
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	About name shortening - a critique of the actual comic: I'm not sure about nationwide, but in his home state of Minnesota, VP Mondale -- when not called "Fritz" (which I noticed has been deleted from the table) -- was more often called "Walt" over "Walter". I remember when the state called up ol' Walt Mondale to replace the late U.S. Senator Paul Wellstone after his tragic death in a plane crash up near the Arrowhead. (I was attending U of Minn at the time; they held the public memorial service in the basketball arena not far from my apartment.) --BigMal27 / [[Special:Contributions/172.70.134.216\|172.70.134.216]] 13:19, 8 August 2024 (UTC)		About name shortening - a critique of the actual comic: I'm not sure about nationwide, but in his home state of Minnesota, VP Mondale -- when not called "Fritz" (which I noticed has been deleted from the table) -- was more often called "Walt" over "Walter". I remember when the state called up ol' Walt Mondale to replace the late U.S. Senator Paul Wellstone after his tragic death in a plane crash up near the Arrowhead. (I was attending U of Minn at the time; they held the public memorial service in the basketball arena not far from my apartment.) --BigMal27 / [[Special:Contributions/172.70.134.216\|172.70.134.216]] 13:19, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

−	"Product naming also began to simplify in the late 20th century, driven by marketing strategies that favored brevity and memorability, exemplified by Apple's iconic "iMac" and "iPhone" products (again, cf. names like "Tandy 1000", "Ford F 500" or "Little Debbie's Oatmeal Creme Pies")." This feels cherry picked and apples-to-oranges. Referring to the iMac and iPhone product names in comparison to the combined brand and product name doesn't seem like a useful way to do it. F-500 is as short visually (if not syllabically) as iMac or iPhone, and while people mostly wouldn't have referred to a "1000" like they would an iPhone, Tandy 1000 seems pretty comparable. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.116\|162.158.62.116]] 19:45, 8 August 2024 (UTC)	+	"Product naming also began to simplify in the late 20th century, driven by marketing strategies that favored brevity and memorability, exemplified by Apple's iconic "iMac" and "iPhone" products (again, cf. names like "Tandy 1000", "Ford F 500" or "Little Debbie's Oatmeal Creme Pies")." This feels cherry picked and apples-to-oranges. Referring to the iMac and iPhone product names in comparison to the combined brand and product name doesn't seem like a useful way to do it. F-500 is as short visually (if not syllabically) as iMac or iPhone, and while people mostly wouldn't have referred to a "1000" like they would an iPhone, Tandy 1000 seems pretty comparable to Apple iPhone. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.116\|162.158.62.116]] 19:45, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:45, 8 August 2024
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	About name shortening - a critique of the actual comic: I'm not sure about nationwide, but in his home state of Minnesota, VP Mondale -- when not called "Fritz" (which I noticed has been deleted from the table) -- was more often called "Walt" over "Walter". I remember when the state called up ol' Walt Mondale to replace the late U.S. Senator Paul Wellstone after his tragic death in a plane crash up near the Arrowhead. (I was attending U of Minn at the time; they held the public memorial service in the basketball arena not far from my apartment.) --BigMal27 / [[Special:Contributions/172.70.134.216\|172.70.134.216]] 13:19, 8 August 2024 (UTC)		About name shortening - a critique of the actual comic: I'm not sure about nationwide, but in his home state of Minnesota, VP Mondale -- when not called "Fritz" (which I noticed has been deleted from the table) -- was more often called "Walt" over "Walter". I remember when the state called up ol' Walt Mondale to replace the late U.S. Senator Paul Wellstone after his tragic death in a plane crash up near the Arrowhead. (I was attending U of Minn at the time; they held the public memorial service in the basketball arena not far from my apartment.) --BigMal27 / [[Special:Contributions/172.70.134.216\|172.70.134.216]] 13:19, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
		+
		+	"Product naming also began to simplify in the late 20th century, driven by marketing strategies that favored brevity and memorability, exemplified by Apple's iconic "iMac" and "iPhone" products (again, cf. names like "Tandy 1000", "Ford F 500" or "Little Debbie's Oatmeal Creme Pies")." This feels cherry picked and apples-to-oranges. Referring to the iMac and iPhone product names in comparison to the combined brand and product name doesn't seem like a useful way to do it. F-500 is as short visually (if not syllabically) as iMac or iPhone, and while people mostly wouldn't have referred to a "1000" like they would an iPhone, Tandy 1000 seems pretty comparable. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.116\|162.158.62.116]] 19:45, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:19, 8 August 2024
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	Seems like an opportunity was missed to point out how many presidents on the list have exactly 6 letters in their first name...Kamala, Donald, Donald, Barack, George, George, Ronald, Gerald, Lyndon, Dwight. It may be worth mentioning? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.131.153\|172.70.131.153]]		Seems like an opportunity was missed to point out how many presidents on the list have exactly 6 letters in their first name...Kamala, Donald, Donald, Barack, George, George, Ronald, Gerald, Lyndon, Dwight. It may be worth mentioning? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.131.153\|172.70.131.153]]
		+
		+	About name shortening - a critique of the actual comic: I'm not sure about nationwide, but in his home state of Minnesota, VP Mondale -- when not called "Fritz" (which I noticed has been deleted from the table) -- was more often called "Walt" over "Walter". I remember when the state called up ol' Walt Mondale to replace the late U.S. Senator Paul Wellstone after his tragic death in a plane crash up near the Arrowhead. (I was attending U of Minn at the time; they held the public memorial service in the basketball arena not far from my apartment.) --BigMal27 / [[Special:Contributions/172.70.134.216\|172.70.134.216]] 13:19, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

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 ::Other than that, I know that the likes of (Tricky-)Dicky and Ronnie were used publicly by detractors, or at least those who weren't likely to be saying them to their faces (though I'm sure "Ron" and "Ronnie" were also used by Jane and Nancy, personally). Of course "Mr President", and Sir-like honorifics, would have been the more public in-person address for all of them.
 ::There'd be a lot of personal preference, that would be interesting to analyse from transcripts of conversations at various levels of formality. I'd say, though, that generally the earlier (culturally) they got established, perhaps the more they'd be used to a more formal address, but the younger they were established in the public eye (seeking to establish themselves) then the more likely they were to 'debut' with a handy shortened name. Add a bit of personal preference ("Not 'Don', please") or difficulty to make a casual version ("Kama? Kam? Mala?" ...maybe also more difficult with unfamiliar names not already having well known alternatives in the given sphere, though I've seen the opposite, e.g. {{w|Shaparak Khorsandi|"Shappi" being thought handier than "Shaparak"}}) and there's probably a number of confounding factors, but the tendency towards informal/casual or even outright depricative in recent years has probably rid culture of the original ("don't call me Thomas, only my mother and my old teachers call me Thomas...").
-:I think Jimmy Carter got in there early. Relatively young, when aquiring his 'electoral name', and the dactyl "James Carter" doesn't trip as easily as the double-trochee that already fit with a whole slew of predecessors (though his immediate predecessor was anapestic) and successor. The "eighties onwards" trend has seemed to bend towards more casual for most people, though. Exceptions generally having humps in the road to going along with this idea. ("Barry" Obama doesn't improve the syllables at all, and seems to have most use as a dismissive informality by detractors.)
+::I think Jimmy Carter got in there early. Relatively young, when aquiring his 'electoral name', and the dactyl "James Carter" doesn't trip as easily as the double-trochee that already fit with a whole slew of predecessors (though his immediate predecessor was anapestic) and successor. The "eighties onwards" trend has seemed to bend towards more casual for most people, though. Exceptions generally having humps in the road to going along with this idea. ("Barry" Obama doesn't improve the syllables at all, and seems to have most use as a dismissive informality by detractors.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.145|172.70.86.145]] 11:49, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
 Going from the beginning you're pretty much limited to Johns and a Levi prior to the chart. There a few potential Hanks and Bills, and a possible Ted more commonly referred to as Teddy. I've never heard anyone refer to Tom Jefferson or Chet A. Arthur. [[User:RegularSizedGuy|RegularSizedGuy]] ([[User talk:RegularSizedGuy|talk]]) 16:42, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

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 In checking all names, surprised to see so many "né"s, but not overly surprised to see no "neé"s. (I mean, "Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton (née H. D. Rodham)" would have been one, of course, in a different trouserleg of time. But Harris stayed as "Harris", not taking/adding "Emhoff" from the person who may well become the first First Gentleman.) Interesting though. Had to resist adding "Dubya", "Ronnie" and "Rocky" nicknames, of course, as they were not the 'formal' nickname that the respective people prefered to go by. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.130|172.70.90.130]] 16:29, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
 :Harris only actually met Emhoff in 2013, way after she started her political career - which I guess is why she didn't want to shake her 'brand' by switching her name up. The practise isn't nearly as automatic these days as it used to be. And re:other nicknames, I only mentioned Ike's cause as far as I know it's the case where it was embraced by his campaign the most. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.115.103|172.70.115.103]] 22:10, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
 Going from the beginning you're pretty much limited to Johns and a Levi prior to the chart. There a few potential Hanks and Bills, and a possible Ted more commonly referred to as Teddy. I've never heard anyone refer to Tom Jefferson or Chet A. Arthur. [[User:RegularSizedGuy|RegularSizedGuy]] ([[User talk:RegularSizedGuy|talk]]) 16:42, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

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 ::check twitter [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.152|172.70.85.152]] 18:23, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
 :::OK, I checked it. [[User:Laser813|Laser813]] ([[User talk:Laser813|talk]]) 19:20, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
 ::I think they're talking about the Talk, rather than the article - comment added at 16:20, and removed in the edit at 16:29 (possible it was just an edit conflict (as opposed to a conflict edit...), since the subsequent update was not small).[[Special:Contributions/172.68.186.128|172.68.186.128]] 09:39, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
 Seems like an opportunity was missed to point out how many presidents on the list have exactly 6 letters in their first name...Kamala, Donald, Donald, Barack, George, George, Ronald, Gerald, Lyndon, Dwight.  It may be worth mentioning? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.131.153|172.70.131.153]]

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 Alright, it seems that ''somebody'' has removed my earlier comment protesting the ongoing genocide that Harris supports. Has this wiki fallen too? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.130|172.70.90.130]] 17:09, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
-:A quick runthrough of article edits doesn't show anything of what you say, unless I've missed it as too subtle. But, I have to say, that the wording you use here is indicative of the problem being with your 'interpretation'. "Genocide" is a heavy allogation to make and such extraordinary claims would require extraordinary justification, not just talking points taken from the fast-and-loose fringes of public opinion. (Not to mention that if your political rivals were as wicked as that, then you'd be risking your life/freedom to oppose them. But, hey, you apparently have the free speech to say utter nonsense with!) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.173|172.70.86.173]] 17:33, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
+:A quick runthrough of article edits doesn't show anything of what you say, unless I've missed it as too subtle. But, I have to say, that the wording you use here is indicative of the problem being with your 'interpretation'. "Genocide" is a heavy allogation to make and such extraordinary claims would require extraordinary justification, not just talking points taken from the fast-and-loose fringes of public opinion. (Not to mention that if your political rivals were as wicked as that, then you'd be risking your life/freedom to oppose them. But, hey, you apparently have the free speech to say utter nonsense with!)[[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.173|172.70.86.173]] 17:33, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
 ::check twitter [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.152|172.70.85.152]] 18:23, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
 :::OK, I checked it. [[User:Laser813|Laser813]] ([[User talk:Laser813|talk]]) 19:20, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
 Seems like an opportunity was missed to point out how many presidents on the list have exactly 6 letters in their first name...Kamala, Donald, Donald, Barack, George, George, Ronald, Gerald, Lyndon, Dwight.  It may be worth mentioning? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.131.153|172.70.131.153]]