Talk:3062: Off By One - Revision history

122.213.236.53: mentioned Entropy esolang

2025-12-07T09:00:45Z

mentioned Entropy esolang

172.68.55.113 at 16:35, 15 March 2025

2025-03-15T16:35:26Z

Jamcdonald at 05:31, 14 March 2025

2025-03-14T05:31:51Z

172.70.163.167 at 00:33, 14 March 2025

2025-03-14T00:33:58Z

172.70.230.159 at 22:41, 13 March 2025

2025-03-13T22:41:53Z

Snaxmcgee at 16:47, 13 March 2025

2025-03-13T16:47:20Z

Snaxmcgee: Someone else referenced this comment so now there's a bunch of confusion. I'm undoing it's removal but editing to clarify. Undo revision 368789 by 172.70.176.15 (talk)

2025-03-13T16:32:56Z

Someone else referenced this comment so now there's a bunch of confusion. I'm undoing it's removal but editing to clarify. Undo revision 368789 by 172.70.176.15 (talk)

172.69.195.4 at 15:50, 13 March 2025

2025-03-13T15:50:36Z

172.70.86.129 at 15:37, 13 March 2025

2025-03-13T15:37:38Z

104.23.170.81 at 15:28, 13 March 2025

2025-03-13T15:28:56Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:00, 7 December 2025
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	:The language {{w\|Perl}} can be asked (with an array <code>@array</code>) for either the number of elements (with something like <code>int(@array)</code>) ''or'' the index of the final element (typically by <code>$#array</code>) of lists that ''usually'' start at the index of zero. The method of looping through the array should then be carefully matched to the limit given (shift/pop it as many times as there are elements, as one of the various "do-while" or "while-do" types of loop available, or else run from index zero to the topmost index value that ''normallybought to be'' 'elements minus one', with one of the more "for(;;)"-style counting-loops).		:The language {{w\|Perl}} can be asked (with an array <code>@array</code>) for either the number of elements (with something like <code>int(@array)</code>) ''or'' the index of the final element (typically by <code>$#array</code>) of lists that ''usually'' start at the index of zero. The method of looping through the array should then be carefully matched to the limit given (shift/pop it as many times as there are elements, as one of the various "do-while" or "while-do" types of loop available, or else run from index zero to the topmost index value that ''normallybought to be'' 'elements minus one', with one of the more "for(;;)"-style counting-loops).
	And, of course, there are subtle differences between Perl versions, not nust limited to whetger it's <code>$array[$index]</code> or <code>@array[$index]</code>, and if <code>$[</code> or 'arybase' can be used to mix things up a bit. (Though I might just <code>map {...} @array</code> it, or do something potentially awful but valid like <code>{@array\|\|last;print$".splice@array,rand@array,1;redo}</code> if it seemed like I should.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.163.167\|172.70.163.167]] 00:33, 14 March 2025 (UTC)		And, of course, there are subtle differences between Perl versions, not nust limited to whetger it's <code>$array[$index]</code> or <code>@array[$index]</code>, and if <code>$[</code> or 'arybase' can be used to mix things up a bit. (Though I might just <code>map {...} @array</code> it, or do something potentially awful but valid like <code>{@array\|\|last;print$".splice@array,rand@array,1;redo}</code> if it seemed like I should.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.163.167\|172.70.163.167]] 00:33, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
		+
		+	There’s an esoteric programming language called Entropy that slightly changes each variable, constant, and string literal every time it’s accessed. If a fizzbuzz program for it is correct up until 8, it’s a miracle. [[Special:Contributions/122.213.236.53\|122.213.236.53]] 09:00, 7 December 2025 (UTC)

@@ Line 32: / Line 32: @@
 :(ISWYDT...) [[Special:Contributions/173.70.195.206|171.68.193.204]] 16:47, 14 February 2026 (UTC)
 ::What did they do. Waterballoons were the previous comic? What did they do? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.230.159|172.70.230.159]] 22:41, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
 Let's make programming languages do this! There should be an implementations section! :D :D [[Special:Contributions/172.70.230.159|172.70.230.159]] 22:41, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

@@ Line 19: / Line 19: @@
 :::And 3 hard things in distributed computing: 3. Delivering messages exactly one time, 2. Making sure things happen in the correct order, and 3. Delivering messages exactly one time [[User:Jamcdonald|Jamcdonald]] ([[User talk:Jamcdonald|talk]])
 ::::Presumably 1 is not losing data? --[[User:NeatNit|NeatNit]] ([[User talk:NeatNit|talk]]) 10:19, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
+::::: We may never know, Message 1 was never delivered [[User:Jamcdonald|Jamcdonald]] ([[User talk:Jamcdonald|talk]])
 In the comic, Cueball clearly says the adjustment amounts is ‘’between’’ 40 and 50, yet this explanation says the adjustment is from 40 to 50, ironically making an off-by-1 error on both ends of the range. Neither integers 40 nor 50 are “between 40 and 50”. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.154.39|172.71.154.39]] 10:43, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
 :English language is imprecise with its use of "between", but it's usually taken as inclusive.  Most people, when asked, "Pick a number between 1 and 10," will assume that 1 and 10 are both valid choices.  Even in computing, you have things like Excel's RANDBETWEEN function to generate random integers between two bounds, which is inclusive. {{unsigned ip|104.23.187.72|13:28, 13 March 2025}}

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:33, 14 March 2025
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	Let's make programming languages do this! There should be an implementations section! :D :D [[Special:Contributions/172.70.230.159\|172.70.230.159]] 22:41, 13 March 2025 (UTC)		Let's make programming languages do this! There should be an implementations section! :D :D [[Special:Contributions/172.70.230.159\|172.70.230.159]] 22:41, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
		+
		+	Nearly added the following information to the Explanation, but it's probably too specific an example:
		+	:The language {{w\|Perl}} can be asked (with an array <code>@array</code>) for either the number of elements (with something like <code>int(@array)</code>) ''or'' the index of the final element (typically by <code>$#array</code>) of lists that ''usually'' start at the index of zero. The method of looping through the array should then be carefully matched to the limit given (shift/pop it as many times as there are elements, as one of the various "do-while" or "while-do" types of loop available, or else run from index zero to the topmost index value that ''normallybought to be'' 'elements minus one', with one of the more "for(;;)"-style counting-loops).
		+	And, of course, there are subtle differences between Perl versions, not nust limited to whetger it's <code>$array[$index]</code> or <code>@array[$index]</code>, and if <code>$[</code> or 'arybase' can be used to mix things up a bit. (Though I might just <code>map {...} @array</code> it, or do something potentially awful but valid like <code>{@array\|\|last;print$".splice@array,rand@array,1;redo}</code> if it seemed like I should.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.163.167\|172.70.163.167]] 00:33, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:41, 13 March 2025
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	I don't understand - what's all this got to do with water balloons? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.129\|172.70.86.129]] 15:37, 13 March 2025 (UTC)		I don't understand - what's all this got to do with water balloons? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.129\|172.70.86.129]] 15:37, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
	:(ISWYDT...) [[Special:Contributions/173.70.195.206\|171.68.193.204]] 16:47, 14 February 2026 (UTC)		:(ISWYDT...) [[Special:Contributions/173.70.195.206\|171.68.193.204]] 16:47, 14 February 2026 (UTC)
		+	::What did they do. Waterballoons were the previous comic? What did they do? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.230.159\|172.70.230.159]] 22:41, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
		+
		+	Let's make programming languages do this! There should be an implementations section! :D :D [[Special:Contributions/172.70.230.159\|172.70.230.159]] 22:41, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

@@ Line 27: / Line 27: @@
 It's easy to make an off-by-one error without using a computer at all. Ask a friend how many fenceposts are needed for a 100-foot fence if the rails are ten feet long. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.30.199|172.71.30.199]] 12:58, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
 :And how wide are the posts..? ;) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.6|141.101.98.6]] 15:27, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
 I don't understand - what's all this got to do with water balloons? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.129|172.70.86.129]] 15:37, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
 :(ISWYDT...) [[Special:Contributions/173.70.195.206|171.68.193.204]] 16:47, 14 February 2026 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:32, 13 March 2025
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	: Could be. --[[User:PRR\|PRR]] ([[User talk:PRR\|talk]]) 22:19, 12 March 2025 (UTC)		: Could be. --[[User:PRR\|PRR]] ([[User talk:PRR\|talk]]) 22:19, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
		+
		+	This language has a huge off by one error: the docs don't explicitly say if the random range is inclusive. EDIT: the comic description above now includes this, thx --[[User:Snaxmcgee\|Snaxmcgee]] ([[User talk:Snaxmcgee\|talk]]) 22:22, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

	But if it's adjusted both on store and on read, then there is a chance (of about 1 in 22) that the value after read will be exactly the same as the value before store. This does not eliminate pre-existing off-by-one errors, and in fact, introduces new ones if the adjustment on read is off by one from the adjustment on store, when there was no off-by-one error in the original code. And what's worse - with a single store-read cycle, the value can never be off by 40 to 50. It can be off by up to 10, or by between 80 to 100, in either direction. --[[User:NeatNit\|NeatNit]] ([[User talk:NeatNit\|talk]]) 22:42, 12 March 2025 (UTC)		But if it's adjusted both on store and on read, then there is a chance (of about 1 in 22) that the value after read will be exactly the same as the value before store. This does not eliminate pre-existing off-by-one errors, and in fact, introduces new ones if the adjustment on read is off by one from the adjustment on store, when there was no off-by-one error in the original code. And what's worse - with a single store-read cycle, the value can never be off by 40 to 50. It can be off by up to 10, or by between 80 to 100, in either direction. --[[User:NeatNit\|NeatNit]] ([[User talk:NeatNit\|talk]]) 22:42, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:50, 13 March 2025
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	I don't understand - what's all this got to do with water balloons? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.129\|172.70.86.129]] 15:37, 13 March 2025 (UTC)		I don't understand - what's all this got to do with water balloons? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.129\|172.70.86.129]] 15:37, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
		+	:(ISWYDT...) [[Special:Contributions/173.70.195.206\|171.68.193.204]] 16:47, 14 February 2026 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:37, 13 March 2025
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	It's easy to make an off-by-one error without using a computer at all. Ask a friend how many fenceposts are needed for a 100-foot fence if the rails are ten feet long. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.30.199\|172.71.30.199]] 12:58, 13 March 2025 (UTC)		It's easy to make an off-by-one error without using a computer at all. Ask a friend how many fenceposts are needed for a 100-foot fence if the rails are ten feet long. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.30.199\|172.71.30.199]] 12:58, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
	:And how wide are the posts..? ;) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.6\|141.101.98.6]] 15:27, 13 March 2025 (UTC)		:And how wide are the posts..? ;) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.6\|141.101.98.6]] 15:27, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
		+
		+	I don't understand - what's all this got to do with water balloons? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.129\|172.70.86.129]] 15:37, 13 March 2025 (UTC)