User talk:JohnHawkinson - Revision history

42.book.addict at 02:31, 13 February 2026

2026-02-13T02:31:09Z

JohnHawkinson: /* Archive 1 and Deleted Archive 1 */ r

2026-02-13T01:45:20Z

‎Archive 1 and Deleted Archive 1: r

42.book.addict: /* Archive 1 and Deleted Archive 1 */ new section

2026-02-13T01:38:24Z

‎Archive 1 and Deleted Archive 1: new section

JohnHawkinson: Absolutely not. This page does not have an archive and it is not acceptable to add one without discussing it with the talk page's owner. It's a talk page, not your playground.

2026-02-12T21:09:12Z

Absolutely not. This page does not have an archive and it is not acceptable to add one without discussing it with the talk page's owner. It's a talk page, not your playground.

DollarStoreBa'al: typo

2026-02-12T21:04:01Z

typo

DollarStoreBa'al at 21:03, 12 February 2026

2026-02-12T21:03:49Z

JohnHawkinson: '''DONT YOU DARE'' edit my talk page. See User talk:42.book.addict. And edit summaries are not for conversations.

2024-05-18T03:21:31Z

'''DONT YOU DARE'' edit my talk page. See User talk:42.book.addict. And edit summaries are not for conversations.

42.book.addict: just don't clear/delete comments-thats censorship. there are much better ways to deal with this-i.e. moving it to a separate page and linking it on your talk page if you don't want the clutter

2024-05-18T03:11:59Z

just don't clear/delete comments-thats censorship. there are much better ways to deal with this-i.e. moving it to a separate page and linking it on your talk page if you don't want the clutter

JohnHawkinson: Clear.

2024-04-20T19:25:47Z

Clear.

JohnHawkinson: /* ip comments */ r

2024-04-19T15:56:19Z

‎ip comments: r

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:31, 13 February 2026
Line 3:		Line 3:
	Just wondering out of curiosity, what's the purpose of keeping Archive 1? You say that the "This page has been deleted", with the revision history showing that you linked it as a redirect to the Deleted Archive 1 page. Given that both pages have the word "deleted" in their title/page, why don't you want [[:Category:Pages to delete]] on there? Do you intend on using the archive in the future? I'm quite confused at the moment, as it seems that you want to delete the archive and never intend to use an archive, yet you don't want me marking it for deletion. Any clarification would be great. And sorry for messing with your page without your permission (really ironic of me, huh?) Thanks, [[User:42.book.addict\|<span style="font:11pt Cormorant Garamond"><span style="color:#5CA7CF">tor</span><span style="color:#F08DB0">i :3</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:42.book.addict\|<span style="font:8pt Cormorant Garamond"><span style="color:#9E9E9E">talk </span><span style="color:#F08DB0">to </span><span style="color:#5CA7CF">me!</span>]]</span></sup> 01:38, 13 February 2026 (UTC)		Just wondering out of curiosity, what's the purpose of keeping Archive 1? You say that the "This page has been deleted", with the revision history showing that you linked it as a redirect to the Deleted Archive 1 page. Given that both pages have the word "deleted" in their title/page, why don't you want [[:Category:Pages to delete]] on there? Do you intend on using the archive in the future? I'm quite confused at the moment, as it seems that you want to delete the archive and never intend to use an archive, yet you don't want me marking it for deletion. Any clarification would be great. And sorry for messing with your page without your permission (really ironic of me, huh?) Thanks, [[User:42.book.addict\|<span style="font:11pt Cormorant Garamond"><span style="color:#5CA7CF">tor</span><span style="color:#F08DB0">i :3</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:42.book.addict\|<span style="font:8pt Cormorant Garamond"><span style="color:#9E9E9E">talk </span><span style="color:#F08DB0">to </span><span style="color:#5CA7CF">me!</span>]]</span></sup> 01:38, 13 February 2026 (UTC)
	:I am so mad about other people attempting to take control of my talk pages that I am willing to blindly revert those edits. I might bring them back after consideration, but I was deeply, deeply offended that you might on the one hand say "don't do things for other people" while at the same time "doing something for [an]other pe[rson]." I am not willing to let them stand while I do that deliberation. Also, I don't think that [[:Category:Pages to delete]] actually works…if it did, I might feel differently about it, but it currently has 309 pages in it and I don't think we have any active administrators willing to cover page deletion. I decline to add to their burden. If you had suggested I mark it for deletion, we might be in a different place. [[User:JohnHawkinson\|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson\|talk]]) 01:45, 13 February 2026 (UTC)		:I am so mad about other people attempting to take control of my talk pages that I am willing to blindly revert those edits. I might bring them back after consideration, but I was deeply, deeply offended that you might on the one hand say "don't do things for other people" while at the same time "doing something for [an]other pe[rson]." I am not willing to let them stand while I do that deliberation. Also, I don't think that [[:Category:Pages to delete]] actually works…if it did, I might feel differently about it, but it currently has 309 pages in it and I don't think we have any active administrators willing to cover page deletion. I decline to add to their burden. If you had suggested I mark it for deletion, we might be in a different place. [[User:JohnHawkinson\|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson\|talk]]) 01:45, 13 February 2026 (UTC)
		+	::Ah, I see. My apologies for my poor wording. I personally did not think much at the time of my marking for deletion as the pages literally said that they were to be deleted, but I can now see how this issue ticks you off so much. I know that I've done similar things in the past, but I've grown and I did not mean any ill will. Additionally, I was still thinking through my own lens/perspective when I did so. Personally, I find no issue with other people handling things on my talk page, such as replying for me on small issues, taking care of vandalism, etc. Therefore, I didn't think that you would be particularly bothered by my edit. In regards to [[:Category:Pages to delete]], I do understand that it is unmaintained. For the longest time, nobody has been truly dealing with it, since everyone is too busy. We have Kynde, Theusaf, and Jacky720 on the admin team, and that is it. I don't know about Theusaf and Jacky720, but I do know that Kynde has kids, a job, and is busy with other obligations in life. Despite this, he's still the most active admin on this project, something that I deeply admire. Due to this, I often feel bad about asking him to help deal with the backlog. The reason I still mark pages to deletion (as most of the 300 something pages were marked by [[User:42.book.addict/userbox\|me]]) is so that one day, if it ever comes, a new admin team can help sort through it. I don't know if Jeff's ever coming back here. But I do know that I'd much rather be safe than sorry. If pages to really ought to be deleted aren't marked for deletion, we'll inevitably forget about them. If we already notice it now, and we have the ability to mark it at the moment, why not mark it so that others can maybe delete them in the future? Anyways, sorry for all the talking. I'll leave you be now. If you want to mark the 2 pages for deletion, I would be greatly pleased, but do as you will. [[User:42.book.addict\|<span style="font:11pt Cormorant Garamond"><span style="color:#5CA7CF">tor</span><span style="color:#F08DB0">i :3</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:42.book.addict\|<span style="font:8pt Cormorant Garamond"><span style="color:#9E9E9E">talk </span><span style="color:#F08DB0">to </span><span style="color:#5CA7CF">me!</span>]]</span></sup> 02:31, 13 February 2026 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:45, 13 February 2026
Line 2:		Line 2:

	Just wondering out of curiosity, what's the purpose of keeping Archive 1? You say that the "This page has been deleted", with the revision history showing that you linked it as a redirect to the Deleted Archive 1 page. Given that both pages have the word "deleted" in their title/page, why don't you want [[:Category:Pages to delete]] on there? Do you intend on using the archive in the future? I'm quite confused at the moment, as it seems that you want to delete the archive and never intend to use an archive, yet you don't want me marking it for deletion. Any clarification would be great. And sorry for messing with your page without your permission (really ironic of me, huh?) Thanks, [[User:42.book.addict\|<span style="font:11pt Cormorant Garamond"><span style="color:#5CA7CF">tor</span><span style="color:#F08DB0">i :3</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:42.book.addict\|<span style="font:8pt Cormorant Garamond"><span style="color:#9E9E9E">talk </span><span style="color:#F08DB0">to </span><span style="color:#5CA7CF">me!</span>]]</span></sup> 01:38, 13 February 2026 (UTC)		Just wondering out of curiosity, what's the purpose of keeping Archive 1? You say that the "This page has been deleted", with the revision history showing that you linked it as a redirect to the Deleted Archive 1 page. Given that both pages have the word "deleted" in their title/page, why don't you want [[:Category:Pages to delete]] on there? Do you intend on using the archive in the future? I'm quite confused at the moment, as it seems that you want to delete the archive and never intend to use an archive, yet you don't want me marking it for deletion. Any clarification would be great. And sorry for messing with your page without your permission (really ironic of me, huh?) Thanks, [[User:42.book.addict\|<span style="font:11pt Cormorant Garamond"><span style="color:#5CA7CF">tor</span><span style="color:#F08DB0">i :3</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:42.book.addict\|<span style="font:8pt Cormorant Garamond"><span style="color:#9E9E9E">talk </span><span style="color:#F08DB0">to </span><span style="color:#5CA7CF">me!</span>]]</span></sup> 01:38, 13 February 2026 (UTC)
		+	:I am so mad about other people attempting to take control of my talk pages that I am willing to blindly revert those edits. I might bring them back after consideration, but I was deeply, deeply offended that you might on the one hand say "don't do things for other people" while at the same time "doing something for [an]other pe[rson]." I am not willing to let them stand while I do that deliberation. Also, I don't think that [[:Category:Pages to delete]] actually works…if it did, I might feel differently about it, but it currently has 309 pages in it and I don't think we have any active administrators willing to cover page deletion. I decline to add to their burden. If you had suggested I mark it for deletion, we might be in a different place. [[User:JohnHawkinson\|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson\|talk]]) 01:45, 13 February 2026 (UTC)

← Older revision	Revision as of 01:38, 13 February 2026
Line 1:	Line 1:
	+	== Archive 1 and Deleted Archive 1 ==

	+	Just wondering out of curiosity, what's the purpose of keeping Archive 1? You say that the "This page has been deleted", with the revision history showing that you linked it as a redirect to the Deleted Archive 1 page. Given that both pages have the word "deleted" in their title/page, why don't you want [[:Category:Pages to delete]] on there? Do you intend on using the archive in the future? I'm quite confused at the moment, as it seems that you want to delete the archive and never intend to use an archive, yet you don't want me marking it for deletion. Any clarification would be great. And sorry for messing with your page without your permission (really ironic of me, huh?) Thanks, [[User:42.book.addict\|<span style="font:11pt Cormorant Garamond"><span style="color:#5CA7CF">tor</span><span style="color:#F08DB0">i :3</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:42.book.addict\|<span style="font:8pt Cormorant Garamond"><span style="color:#9E9E9E">talk </span><span style="color:#F08DB0">to </span><span style="color:#5CA7CF">me!</span>]]</span></sup> 01:38, 13 February 2026 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:09, 12 February 2026
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−	~~<center>'''Archives'''</center>~~	+
−	~~<center>[[File:archive.png]]</center>~~
−	~~<center>For old and irrelevant messages, please see [[User talk:JohnHawkinson/Archive 1\|my archive]].</center>~~

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-<center>'''Archives''</center>
+<center>'''Archives'''</center>
 <center>[[File:archive.png]]</center>
 <center>For old and irrelevant messages, please see [[User talk:JohnHawkinson/Archive 1|my archive]].</center>

← Older revision	Revision as of 21:03, 12 February 2026
Line 1:	Line 1:
−	+	<center>'''Archives''</center>
	+	<center>[[File:archive.png]]</center>
	+	<center>For old and irrelevant messages, please see [[User talk:JohnHawkinson/Archive 1\|my archive]].</center>

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:21, 18 May 2024
Line 1:		Line 1:
−	~~Yes, I'm barmar on SE. I'm pretty sure I've seen you there, too. [[User:Barmar\|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar\|talk]]) 23:29, 17 April 2024 (UTC)~~

−	~~==ip comments==~~
−	Hi. Speaking as a totally different IP to the one that you just had to deal with, there's really usually no point creating an IP's User Talk page to communicate with them [...snipthe rest of my blather...] [[Special:Contributions/172.71.242.160\|172.71.242.160]] 11:26, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
−
−	:I don't know why you think that there's no point. Some people have a stable IP, some people don't. Those that do will be shown the talk page automatically by MediaWiki. And others monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]], as this IP editor may have (and as you did). And furthermore, the talk page was linked from [[:User talk:Barmar]] in the thread the IP user was using. So for all those reasons, it sure seems to have a point to me. Thanks anyhow. [[User:JohnHawkinson\|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson\|talk]]) 02:00, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
−
−	:: Unfortunately, nobody has a 'stable IP'. It's essentially whatever Cloudflare gateway one happens to be routed through, which is perhaps geographically grouped but otherwise semi-randomised within that group. I can't guarantee that this message will sign as 172.71.242.160 (I would heavily bet against it!), probably not within 172.71.242/8 (rare!), 172.71/16 is not likely, 172/24 is more like it (''maybe'' .69-to-71-ish?), but landing off of the 172s (subranges of the 141s and 162s are always a reasonable side-bet) can happen even between one submission and an ''immediate'' "whoops, I forgot to sign" re-edit mere seconds later.
−	:: Conversely, I've replied to a prior IP's chat, before, and ''had the exact same'' anon-IP. Likely they were also in the UK, possibly even on the same ISP, but as even geolocation on my non-proxied IP (direct via such a "where am I?" site) often places me at one or other major UK city often hundreds of miles away, Cloudflare can't really help in either keeping 'me' constant or reliably separating 'us' from each other.
−	:: For those that monitor the changes, there is no advantage to creating an insta-out-of-date User Talk page, above any other manner of passing a note. This is in part a peculiarity of the way this Wiki is set up. There are plenty of discussions on these lines sitting in the Admin pages or random spots such as these. I've seen a few (and commented in some) over the years and ''until''/unless either a configuration tweak (to immediately unproxy every IP reported) or perhaps a full update is attempted, one cannot even usefully say that those who have a stable IP at their end will ever have a (differently) stable IP reported at wikiside.
−	::: Exactly. "No advantage…above any other manner of passing a note." You have not proposed any other manner of passing a note, and it does not seem to have material disadvantages. Perhaps you'd like to suggest a different method of passing a note, but absent that, this one seems good, and better than no method. (I suppose the other obvious choice would be to clutter up my talk page with such, but I am disinclined to do that.) I was not aware that this wiki's CDN/whatever configuration breaks source IP address resolution; oh well, but that bumps IP talk pages from more-useful to equally useful (aka equally useless). [[User:JohnHawkinson\|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson\|talk]]) 14:45, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
−	:::: First, I absolutely apologise for this cluttering that I have instigated (I guess you also get an email notification, if not set otherwise?), and continue. Had you not posed a further <s>question</s> answerable issue, I had intended to stop at the last one (which was supposed to be brief!).
−	:::: But you weigh up the relative lack of advantages, as is my point, forgetting the final sum of the disadvantages. User: and User Talk: spaces for IPs have no responsible owners to 'sub-moderate' them. Casual moderation by anyone and 'official' moderation by the fully accredited accounts (who can, and often have, delete the pages). In my mind, this tips the balance, even before considering more pernicious issues.
−	:::: I agree, your wish to communicate with whoever-it-was is a somewhat insoluble problem. There is no more solution from creating an IP's Talk page, above highlighting it as you did by your (legitimate) comment on your (legitimate) edit. (That they landed on the opportunity to originally ingratiate themselves into your and Barmar's dialogue suggests they ''may'', like me, be a bit of a casual page-change watcher. I don't believe the Random Page link could set them down there, etc.)
−	:::: It would then be for the best not to add complexity from a needless additional disconnected notification (though you did not know that, quite as well as you now do!), if you'd accept my personal IMO/IME on this matter.
−	:::: Not that I have authority here, clearly. 'Experience' is not a replacement for that, forgive me if you thought my attempt to smooth things down and brief you were anything more than passing helpfulness rendered overwordy and badly explained. And so there I shall stop, properly, and wish you well. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.70\|172.70.90.70]] 15:37, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
−	::::: I cannot tell what you are proposing I do instead of using an IP talk page. You are being neither succint not clear. [[User:JohnHawkinson\|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson\|talk]]) 15:41, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
−	:::::: Ok, drat, then the TL;DR; is... [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=User_talk:JohnHawkinson&diff=339898&oldid=339897 what you did here]. That's the proposal. I saw that (and went looking for what had happened!), I ''then'' saw the other. Fairly likely they did too. Only real difference is character limits and any desire to get a response (which you wouldn't, understandably). HTH, HAND. waves [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.136\|172.70.90.136]] 15:50, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
−	::::::: OK, thanks. I think we just disagree. I don't approve of using solely an ''edit summary'' for substantive comments and feedback. I recognize that my approach of using an IP talk page isn't reliable (and you've given me good reason to believe it's even less reliable than I thought), but it still seems to me the way to go. OTOH, if I hear that the messages are not only not reaching their intended target, but also are inappropriately popping up and chastising unrelated IP users, that might be good cause to re-evaluate the approach. Thanks. [[User:JohnHawkinson\|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson\|talk]]) 15:56, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
−	:: (And actually more casual IP users will already not know to check "User Talk:<wh.at.ev.er>", ''or'' think to check the history/diffs for the response to their great big* boots creating great big muddy footprints all over the place and needing cleaning up. Some ''named users'' don't seem to know to check the usual places.) * - British phrase is often "Size nine boots", but I'm guessing you'd use an idiom that, at best, used US shoe sizing, whatever that equivalent is. And I wear 9s (9½s, maybe, sometimes even 10s, depends upon fit), so perhaps that's no longer suitable as "a big boot size".
−	:: Anyway, I wonder what IP this'll show as? Just done a Preview, and it says 172.70.90.93 (ha, nearly guessed 172.70.whatever, before I decided to actually test it!) but now let's see what an actual Saved reply will say, about one minute later... [[Special:Contributions/172.69.43.222\|172.69.43.222]] 12:44, 19 April 2024 (UTC) (( PS, if this has helped, or especially if it has not, I still think you're best to unclutter this small diversion from your userspace :p ))

← Older revision	Revision as of 03:11, 18 May 2024
Line 1:	Line 1:
	+	Yes, I'm barmar on SE. I'm pretty sure I've seen you there, too. [[User:Barmar\|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar\|talk]]) 23:29, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

	+	==ip comments==
	+	Hi. Speaking as a totally different IP to the one that you just had to deal with, there's really usually no point creating an IP's User Talk page to communicate with them [...snipthe rest of my blather...] [[Special:Contributions/172.71.242.160\|172.71.242.160]] 11:26, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
	+
	+	:I don't know why you think that there's no point. Some people have a stable IP, some people don't. Those that do will be shown the talk page automatically by MediaWiki. And others monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]], as this IP editor may have (and as you did). And furthermore, the talk page was linked from [[:User talk:Barmar]] in the thread the IP user was using. So for all those reasons, it sure seems to have a point to me. Thanks anyhow. [[User:JohnHawkinson\|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson\|talk]]) 02:00, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
	+
	+	:: Unfortunately, nobody has a 'stable IP'. It's essentially whatever Cloudflare gateway one happens to be routed through, which is perhaps geographically grouped but otherwise semi-randomised within that group. I can't guarantee that this message will sign as 172.71.242.160 (I would heavily bet against it!), probably not within 172.71.242/8 (rare!), 172.71/16 is not likely, 172/24 is more like it (''maybe'' .69-to-71-ish?), but landing off of the 172s (subranges of the 141s and 162s are always a reasonable side-bet) can happen even between one submission and an ''immediate'' "whoops, I forgot to sign" re-edit mere seconds later.
	+	:: Conversely, I've replied to a prior IP's chat, before, and ''had the exact same'' anon-IP. Likely they were also in the UK, possibly even on the same ISP, but as even geolocation on my non-proxied IP (direct via such a "where am I?" site) often places me at one or other major UK city often hundreds of miles away, Cloudflare can't really help in either keeping 'me' constant or reliably separating 'us' from each other.
	+	:: For those that monitor the changes, there is no advantage to creating an insta-out-of-date User Talk page, above any other manner of passing a note. This is in part a peculiarity of the way this Wiki is set up. There are plenty of discussions on these lines sitting in the Admin pages or random spots such as these. I've seen a few (and commented in some) over the years and ''until''/unless either a configuration tweak (to immediately unproxy every IP reported) or perhaps a full update is attempted, one cannot even usefully say that those who have a stable IP at their end will ever have a (differently) stable IP reported at wikiside.
	+	::: Exactly. "No advantage…above any other manner of passing a note." You have not proposed any other manner of passing a note, and it does not seem to have material disadvantages. Perhaps you'd like to suggest a different method of passing a note, but absent that, this one seems good, and better than no method. (I suppose the other obvious choice would be to clutter up my talk page with such, but I am disinclined to do that.) I was not aware that this wiki's CDN/whatever configuration breaks source IP address resolution; oh well, but that bumps IP talk pages from more-useful to equally useful (aka equally useless). [[User:JohnHawkinson\|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson\|talk]]) 14:45, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
	+	:::: First, I absolutely apologise for this cluttering that I have instigated (I guess you also get an email notification, if not set otherwise?), and continue. Had you not posed a further <s>question</s> answerable issue, I had intended to stop at the last one (which was supposed to be brief!).
	+	:::: But you weigh up the relative lack of advantages, as is my point, forgetting the final sum of the disadvantages. User: and User Talk: spaces for IPs have no responsible owners to 'sub-moderate' them. Casual moderation by anyone and 'official' moderation by the fully accredited accounts (who can, and often have, delete the pages). In my mind, this tips the balance, even before considering more pernicious issues.
	+	:::: I agree, your wish to communicate with whoever-it-was is a somewhat insoluble problem. There is no more solution from creating an IP's Talk page, above highlighting it as you did by your (legitimate) comment on your (legitimate) edit. (That they landed on the opportunity to originally ingratiate themselves into your and Barmar's dialogue suggests they ''may'', like me, be a bit of a casual page-change watcher. I don't believe the Random Page link could set them down there, etc.)
	+	:::: It would then be for the best not to add complexity from a needless additional disconnected notification (though you did not know that, quite as well as you now do!), if you'd accept my personal IMO/IME on this matter.
	+	:::: Not that I have authority here, clearly. 'Experience' is not a replacement for that, forgive me if you thought my attempt to smooth things down and brief you were anything more than passing helpfulness rendered overwordy and badly explained. And so there I shall stop, properly, and wish you well. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.70\|172.70.90.70]] 15:37, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
	+	::::: I cannot tell what you are proposing I do instead of using an IP talk page. You are being neither succint not clear. [[User:JohnHawkinson\|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson\|talk]]) 15:41, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
	+	:::::: Ok, drat, then the TL;DR; is... [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=User_talk:JohnHawkinson&diff=339898&oldid=339897 what you did here]. That's the proposal. I saw that (and went looking for what had happened!), I ''then'' saw the other. Fairly likely they did too. Only real difference is character limits and any desire to get a response (which you wouldn't, understandably). HTH, HAND. waves [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.136\|172.70.90.136]] 15:50, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
	+	::::::: OK, thanks. I think we just disagree. I don't approve of using solely an ''edit summary'' for substantive comments and feedback. I recognize that my approach of using an IP talk page isn't reliable (and you've given me good reason to believe it's even less reliable than I thought), but it still seems to me the way to go. OTOH, if I hear that the messages are not only not reaching their intended target, but also are inappropriately popping up and chastising unrelated IP users, that might be good cause to re-evaluate the approach. Thanks. [[User:JohnHawkinson\|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson\|talk]]) 15:56, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
	+	:: (And actually more casual IP users will already not know to check "User Talk:<wh.at.ev.er>", ''or'' think to check the history/diffs for the response to their great big* boots creating great big muddy footprints all over the place and needing cleaning up. Some ''named users'' don't seem to know to check the usual places.) * - British phrase is often "Size nine boots", but I'm guessing you'd use an idiom that, at best, used US shoe sizing, whatever that equivalent is. And I wear 9s (9½s, maybe, sometimes even 10s, depends upon fit), so perhaps that's no longer suitable as "a big boot size".
	+	:: Anyway, I wonder what IP this'll show as? Just done a Preview, and it says 172.70.90.93 (ha, nearly guessed 172.70.whatever, before I decided to actually test it!) but now let's see what an actual Saved reply will say, about one minute later... [[Special:Contributions/172.69.43.222\|172.69.43.222]] 12:44, 19 April 2024 (UTC) (( PS, if this has helped, or especially if it has not, I still think you're best to unclutter this small diversion from your userspace :p ))

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:25, 20 April 2024
Line 1:		Line 1:
−	~~Yes, I'm barmar on SE. I'm pretty sure I've seen you there, too. [[User:Barmar\|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar\|talk]]) 23:29, 17 April 2024 (UTC)~~

−	~~==ip comments==~~
−	Hi. Speaking as a totally different IP to the one that you just had to deal with, there's really usually no point creating an IP's User Talk page to communicate with them [...snipthe rest of my blather...] [[Special:Contributions/172.71.242.160\|172.71.242.160]] 11:26, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
−
−	:I don't know why you think that there's no point. Some people have a stable IP, some people don't. Those that do will be shown the talk page automatically by MediaWiki. And others monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]], as this IP editor may have (and as you did). And furthermore, the talk page was linked from [[:User talk:Barmar]] in the thread the IP user was using. So for all those reasons, it sure seems to have a point to me. Thanks anyhow. [[User:JohnHawkinson\|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson\|talk]]) 02:00, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
−
−	:: Unfortunately, nobody has a 'stable IP'. It's essentially whatever Cloudflare gateway one happens to be routed through, which is perhaps geographically grouped but otherwise semi-randomised within that group. I can't guarantee that this message will sign as 172.71.242.160 (I would heavily bet against it!), probably not within 172.71.242/8 (rare!), 172.71/16 is not likely, 172/24 is more like it (''maybe'' .69-to-71-ish?), but landing off of the 172s (subranges of the 141s and 162s are always a reasonable side-bet) can happen even between one submission and an ''immediate'' "whoops, I forgot to sign" re-edit mere seconds later.
−	:: Conversely, I've replied to a prior IP's chat, before, and ''had the exact same'' anon-IP. Likely they were also in the UK, possibly even on the same ISP, but as even geolocation on my non-proxied IP (direct via such a "where am I?" site) often places me at one or other major UK city often hundreds of miles away, Cloudflare can't really help in either keeping 'me' constant or reliably separating 'us' from each other.
−	:: For those that monitor the changes, there is no advantage to creating an insta-out-of-date User Talk page, above any other manner of passing a note. This is in part a peculiarity of the way this Wiki is set up. There are plenty of discussions on these lines sitting in the Admin pages or random spots such as these. I've seen a few (and commented in some) over the years and ''until''/unless either a configuration tweak (to immediately unproxy every IP reported) or perhaps a full update is attempted, one cannot even usefully say that those who have a stable IP at their end will ever have a (differently) stable IP reported at wikiside.
−	::: Exactly. "No advantage…above any other manner of passing a note." You have not proposed any other manner of passing a note, and it does not seem to have material disadvantages. Perhaps you'd like to suggest a different method of passing a note, but absent that, this one seems good, and better than no method. (I suppose the other obvious choice would be to clutter up my talk page with such, but I am disinclined to do that.) I was not aware that this wiki's CDN/whatever configuration breaks source IP address resolution; oh well, but that bumps IP talk pages from more-useful to equally useful (aka equally useless). [[User:JohnHawkinson\|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson\|talk]]) 14:45, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
−	:::: First, I absolutely apologise for this cluttering that I have instigated (I guess you also get an email notification, if not set otherwise?), and continue. Had you not posed a further <s>question</s> answerable issue, I had intended to stop at the last one (which was supposed to be brief!).
−	:::: But you weigh up the relative lack of advantages, as is my point, forgetting the final sum of the disadvantages. User: and User Talk: spaces for IPs have no responsible owners to 'sub-moderate' them. Casual moderation by anyone and 'official' moderation by the fully accredited accounts (who can, and often have, delete the pages). In my mind, this tips the balance, even before considering more pernicious issues.
−	:::: I agree, your wish to communicate with whoever-it-was is a somewhat insoluble problem. There is no more solution from creating an IP's Talk page, above highlighting it as you did by your (legitimate) comment on your (legitimate) edit. (That they landed on the opportunity to originally ingratiate themselves into your and Barmar's dialogue suggests they ''may'', like me, be a bit of a casual page-change watcher. I don't believe the Random Page link could set them down there, etc.)
−	:::: It would then be for the best not to add complexity from a needless additional disconnected notification (though you did not know that, quite as well as you now do!), if you'd accept my personal IMO/IME on this matter.
−	:::: Not that I have authority here, clearly. 'Experience' is not a replacement for that, forgive me if you thought my attempt to smooth things down and brief you were anything more than passing helpfulness rendered overwordy and badly explained. And so there I shall stop, properly, and wish you well. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.70\|172.70.90.70]] 15:37, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
−	::::: I cannot tell what you are proposing I do instead of using an IP talk page. You are being neither succint not clear. [[User:JohnHawkinson\|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson\|talk]]) 15:41, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
−	:::::: Ok, drat, then the TL;DR; is... [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=User_talk:JohnHawkinson&diff=339898&oldid=339897 what you did here]. That's the proposal. I saw that (and went looking for what had happened!), I ''then'' saw the other. Fairly likely they did too. Only real difference is character limits and any desire to get a response (which you wouldn't, understandably). HTH, HAND. waves [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.136\|172.70.90.136]] 15:50, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
−	::::::: OK, thanks. I think we just disagree. I don't approve of using solely an ''edit summary'' for substantive comments and feedback. I recognize that my approach of using an IP talk page isn't reliable (and you've given me good reason to believe it's even less reliable than I thought), but it still seems to me the way to go. OTOH, if I hear that the messages are not only not reaching their intended target, but also are inappropriately popping up and chastising unrelated IP users, that might be good cause to re-evaluate the approach. Thanks. [[User:JohnHawkinson\|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson\|talk]]) 15:56, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
−	:: (And actually more casual IP users will already not know to check "User Talk:<wh.at.ev.er>", ''or'' think to check the history/diffs for the response to their great big* boots creating great big muddy footprints all over the place and needing cleaning up. Some ''named users'' don't seem to know to check the usual places.) * - British phrase is often "Size nine boots", but I'm guessing you'd use an idiom that, at best, used US shoe sizing, whatever that equivalent is. And I wear 9s (9½s, maybe, sometimes even 10s, depends upon fit), so perhaps that's no longer suitable as "a big boot size".
−	:: Anyway, I wonder what IP this'll show as? Just done a Preview, and it says 172.70.90.93 (ha, nearly guessed 172.70.whatever, before I decided to actually test it!) but now let's see what an actual Saved reply will say, about one minute later... [[Special:Contributions/172.69.43.222\|172.69.43.222]] 12:44, 19 April 2024 (UTC) (( PS, if this has helped, or especially if it has not, I still think you're best to unclutter this small diversion from your userspace :p ))

@@ Line 17: / Line 17: @@
 ::::: I cannot tell what you are proposing I do instead of using an IP talk page. You are being neither succint not clear. [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 15:41, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
 :::::: Ok, drat, then the TL;DR; is... [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=User_talk:JohnHawkinson&diff=339898&oldid=339897 what you did here]. That's the proposal. I saw that (and went looking for what had happened!), I ''then'' saw the other. Fairly likely they did too. Only real difference is character limits and any desire to get a response (which you wouldn't, understandably). HTH, HAND. *waves* [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.136|172.70.90.136]] 15:50, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
 :: (And actually more casual IP users will already not know to check "User Talk:<wh.at.ev.er>", ''or'' think to check the history/diffs for the response to their great big* boots creating great big muddy footprints all over the place and needing cleaning up. Some ''named users'' don't seem to know to check the usual places.) * - British phrase is often "Size nine boots", but I'm guessing you'd use an idiom that, at best, used US shoe sizing, whatever that equivalent is. And I wear 9s (9½s, maybe, sometimes even 10s, depends upon fit), so perhaps that's no longer suitable as "a big boot size".
 :: Anyway, I wonder what IP this'll show as? Just done a Preview, and it says 172.70.90.93 (ha, nearly guessed 172.70.whatever, before I decided to actually test it!) but now let's see what an actual Saved reply will say, about one minute later... [[Special:Contributions/172.69.43.222|172.69.43.222]] 12:44, 19 April 2024 (UTC) (( PS, if this has helped, or especially if it has not, I still think you're best to unclutter this small diversion from your userspace :p ))