# Difference between revisions of "Talk:1180: Virus Venn Diagram"

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:I was about to make a post about unnecessary amounts of pedantry, but after reading both wikipedia articles, I've decided that this is exactly the kind of "Learn something new every day" material that I really liked about the old explain xkcd blog, and I'm happy that its continuing. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]]<span title="I'm an admin. I can help.">_a</span> ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 06:32, 2 March 2013 (UTC) | :I was about to make a post about unnecessary amounts of pedantry, but after reading both wikipedia articles, I've decided that this is exactly the kind of "Learn something new every day" material that I really liked about the old explain xkcd blog, and I'm happy that its continuing. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]]<span title="I'm an admin. I can help.">_a</span> ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 06:32, 2 March 2013 (UTC) | ||

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+ | :I'm not so sure whether this really is a standard Venn diagram. According to quite some sources ([1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venn_diagram, section "Overview"; as well as these papers: [2] [http://arxiv.org/abs/1207.6452 arXiv:1207.6452], [3] [http://arxiv.org/abs/math/0603068 arXiv:math/0603068], have a look at p. 1 and pp. 1/2 respectively, also: [4] [http://arxiv.org/abs/cs/0512001 arXiv:cs/0512001], Wolfram MathWold agrees: [5] http://mathworld.wolfram.com/VennDiagram.html), a Venn diagram is "[...] a set of n [– in this case 2 – ...] closed curves [– circles –] that subdivide the plane into 2^n connected regions [...]." [3, p. 1]. So we would actually expect to see 4 regions – in a standard Venn diagram. Obviously here the intersection is supposed to be empty (yielding only three regions), making this effectively an Euler diagram, in which circles are allowed to be the same size -- why should they not (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hamilton_1881_example.jpg). Additionally, Euler diagrams are not only used to illustrate "(for all x) if A, then B" or "all A are B", but also "no A are B" etc. You might also want to have a look at this blogpost concerning Euler vs. Venn: [http://blog.stevemould.com/venn-vs-euler-diagrams/ Venn Vs Euler: The Diagrams]. As this comic is titled "Virus Venn Diagram" one expects to see a classical Venn diagram, one does, however, not get to see one, but rather an Euler diagram showing very drastically that there is no intersection of the set of problems that make one think there might be a virus causing it and the set of problems actually caused by a virus. That's my amount of unnecessary pedantry for today. [[Special:Contributions/89.182.242.115|89.182.242.115]] 12:19, 3 March 2013 (UTC) | ||

Haha, how often do I have this conversation with my parents! They: "I think we are being hacked." Me: "?!" They: "Yeah, this morning when I started my computer, X wasn't working and now Y is acting all weird." ... Yes, of course. --[[Special:Contributions/83.84.33.170|83.84.33.170]] 08:49, 2 March 2013 (UTC) | Haha, how often do I have this conversation with my parents! They: "I think we are being hacked." Me: "?!" They: "Yeah, this morning when I started my computer, X wasn't working and now Y is acting all weird." ... Yes, of course. --[[Special:Contributions/83.84.33.170|83.84.33.170]] 08:49, 2 March 2013 (UTC) |

## Revision as of 12:19, 3 March 2013

If nothing else, defragging the Singularity would keep it busy for a few hours. ~ Quackslikeaduck (talk) 13:40, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

I wonder if defragging the Singularity would actually erase/ruin it. Just imagine what would have happened to the first multi-cellular organism if someone had rearranged its molecules in what it considered to be a more "efficient" manner!--Joehammer79 (talk) 15:00, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

And for a minute I was asking myself what black holes had to do with it... --65.222.165.65 16:14, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

- Well, beyond borrowing the name from the black-hole concept, there's something else too. You could say defragging decreases entropy. Decreasing the entropy of a black-hole would lead to what? Not a black hole? Bear in mind that black holes are tricky from a physics POV, and to top that, entropy, in the context of gravitation is a tricky thing. Also, the entire concept of "efficiency" is governed by the second law. So... Damn. I've tied this into all sorts of knots. But I'm going to say, if you tried defragging the singularity, it would actually prevent it from acting (since any action increases entropy), and therefore, IS a viable method to slow down the AI takeover. 220.224.246.97 22:39, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

I've managed to put someone in the "Maybe it has a Virus" category. I added an implementation of "neko" to an application we where working on, and the little cat following the mouse just confused a user who had never seen it before. Divad27182 (talk) 19:15, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

It's actually an Euler diagram, not a Venn diagram. --23.17.150.29 21:04, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

- I looked it up and agree. I wonder if someone has told Randall. I know he would appreciate it (1053: Ten Thousand). I'm not sure whether or not to change the "a Euler diagram" to "an Euler diagram" though. --DanB (talk) 21:31, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
- It's no less a Venn Diagram than it is a Euler. --Shine (talk) 05:27, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
- Also, one of the most fascinating things from the Euler Wiki article was this image on a Euler diagram of traingles. --DanB (talk) 21:41, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
- Actually, this IS a Venn Diagram, not an Euler diagram. In an Euler diagram, one thins is a subset of another, which in this case would suggest that either all suspected cases of computer viruses are a subset of actual computer viruses, or the reverse, which I really don't think Randall is trying to imply, or rather NOT imply by his joke. For one thing, the joke is that problems that are caused by computer viruses and problems that people suspect are caused by computer viruses should have some overlap, but don't. This does not fit with an Euler interpretation of the graph as that would say (if one of the circles was inside the other) that every time the problem is a computer virus, people always correctly identify them but also assume other non-computer virus problems are viruses - or the reverse - all problems are caused by a computer virus but only a few are identified as computer viruses. Secondly, and more importantly, in an Euler diagram one circle is always SMALLER than the other, where as in a Venn diagram they are always the SAME size. Oh, and last but not least, I'd be very surprised if Randall didn't know the difference between a Venn and an Euler diagram, since I'm sure he's had to use both many times.--7OO Tnega Terces (talk) 07:43, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

- I was about to make a post about unnecessary amounts of pedantry, but after reading both wikipedia articles, I've decided that this is exactly the kind of "Learn something new every day" material that I really liked about the old explain xkcd blog, and I'm happy that its continuing. lcarsos_a (talk) 06:32, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

- I'm not so sure whether this really is a standard Venn diagram. According to quite some sources ([1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venn_diagram, section "Overview"; as well as these papers: [2] arXiv:1207.6452, [3] arXiv:math/0603068, have a look at p. 1 and pp. 1/2 respectively, also: [4] arXiv:cs/0512001, Wolfram MathWold agrees: [5] http://mathworld.wolfram.com/VennDiagram.html), a Venn diagram is "[...] a set of n [– in this case 2 – ...] closed curves [– circles –] that subdivide the plane into 2^n connected regions [...]." [3, p. 1]. So we would actually expect to see 4 regions – in a standard Venn diagram. Obviously here the intersection is supposed to be empty (yielding only three regions), making this effectively an Euler diagram, in which circles are allowed to be the same size -- why should they not (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hamilton_1881_example.jpg). Additionally, Euler diagrams are not only used to illustrate "(for all x) if A, then B" or "all A are B", but also "no A are B" etc. You might also want to have a look at this blogpost concerning Euler vs. Venn: Venn Vs Euler: The Diagrams. As this comic is titled "Virus Venn Diagram" one expects to see a classical Venn diagram, one does, however, not get to see one, but rather an Euler diagram showing very drastically that there is no intersection of the set of problems that make one think there might be a virus causing it and the set of problems actually caused by a virus. That's my amount of unnecessary pedantry for today. 89.182.242.115 12:19, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Haha, how often do I have this conversation with my parents! They: "I think we are being hacked." Me: "?!" They: "Yeah, this morning when I started my computer, X wasn't working and now Y is acting all weird." ... Yes, of course. --83.84.33.170 08:49, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Oh my god, we all see the source, MATRIX MUST BE RIGHT! (011010100111010101110011011101000010000001101011011010010110010001100100011010010110111001100111001000000011101000101001) - E-inspired (talk) 03:51, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Quick, Download instructions how to proceed, complete the game (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/612107) - E-inspired (talk) 09:08, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

- Just curious, how is this relevant to the comic?
__Davidy__²²`[talk]`10:14, 3 March 2013 (UTC)- It's not, I was just making fun at our (as in society) fascination with simple things, I hope in the future we would be able figure out how to download instructions from movies (learn on mistakes of others) before we jack ourselves in (learn from our own mistakes, as in Matrix, congratulations I've explained you the inside joke, hope it's still funny). - E-inspired (talk) 10:27, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
- More shortcuts to knowledge in the matrix: Everything you know is wrong, Anybody else is part of the system until you explain yourself to them, our new phylosophers need to adopt faster to real-world conditions then industrial machine can change our rules. - E-inspired (talk) 10:43, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Engineer's view of 0 => 0% chance of being right, conclusion avoid 0 in calculations. - E-inspired (talk) 09:42, 3 March 2013 (UTC)