Editing Talk:2658: Coffee Cup Holes
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::I have no compunction in calling the comic's container a mug, based entirely upon its appearance, though obviously applying my own cultural/learnt distinctions to this. YMMV. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.79.171|172.69.79.171]] 19:08, 13 August 2022 (UTC) | ::I have no compunction in calling the comic's container a mug, based entirely upon its appearance, though obviously applying my own cultural/learnt distinctions to this. YMMV. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.79.171|172.69.79.171]] 19:08, 13 August 2022 (UTC) | ||
::In my experience, it's almost never possible to get even a single finger through the handle on one of those cups. So from a finger perspective they have no holes. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.223|172.70.90.223]] 10:19, 15 August 2022 (UTC) | ::In my experience, it's almost never possible to get even a single finger through the handle on one of those cups. So from a finger perspective they have no holes. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.223|172.70.90.223]] 10:19, 15 August 2022 (UTC) | ||
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[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Mug_and_Torus_morph.gif] [[Special:Contributions/172.70.179.4|172.70.179.4]] 23:54, 12 August 2022 (UTC) | [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Mug_and_Torus_morph.gif] [[Special:Contributions/172.70.179.4|172.70.179.4]] 23:54, 12 August 2022 (UTC) | ||
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Is “cup” or “mug” better for the explanation? “Mug” is a better descriptor, but it’s described as “cup” in the comic, so that would be more faithful to what Randall intended. [[User:Szeth Pancakes|Szeth Pancakes]] ([[User talk:Szeth Pancakes|talk]]) 01:25, 13 August 2022 (UTC) | Is “cup” or “mug” better for the explanation? “Mug” is a better descriptor, but it’s described as “cup” in the comic, so that would be more faithful to what Randall intended. [[User:Szeth Pancakes|Szeth Pancakes]] ([[User talk:Szeth Pancakes|talk]]) 01:25, 13 August 2022 (UTC) | ||
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Linguist: Zero to Two... mostly. Given linguistic variation and local functional style the object being referred to may not have a closed handle, or any handle at all (Cup vs Mug), and the top may be considered a hole in the common usage. --- [[Special:Contributions/172.69.71.34|172.69.71.34]] 01:33, 13 August 2022 (UTC) | Linguist: Zero to Two... mostly. Given linguistic variation and local functional style the object being referred to may not have a closed handle, or any handle at all (Cup vs Mug), and the top may be considered a hole in the common usage. --- [[Special:Contributions/172.69.71.34|172.69.71.34]] 01:33, 13 August 2022 (UTC) | ||
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Part of the joke is that all five methods don't discern between a cup and a mug, the original cliché being that topologists are unusual because they don't. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.134|172.70.211.134]] 03:06, 13 August 2022 (UTC) | Part of the joke is that all five methods don't discern between a cup and a mug, the original cliché being that topologists are unusual because they don't. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.134|172.70.211.134]] 03:06, 13 August 2022 (UTC) | ||
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Someone should mention that part of the joke is that when the topologist says it has one hole, they're referring to the hole in the handle, while in the next panel the "normal person" assumes the one hole they mentioned is the opening and questions its validity. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.241.51|108.162.241.51]] 03:25, 13 August 2022 (UTC) | Someone should mention that part of the joke is that when the topologist says it has one hole, they're referring to the hole in the handle, while in the next panel the "normal person" assumes the one hole they mentioned is the opening and questions its validity. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.241.51|108.162.241.51]] 03:25, 13 August 2022 (UTC) | ||
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All frames except the first and last depict a mug; a topologist most definitely discerns between a a cup and a mug because they give different answers, the "normal" person is only questioning a specific feature, and the philosopher is clearly considering a mug. If it's part of the joke the only contrast is the question. Seems way too subtle for Mr Munroes normal style. probably just what he is used to calling it. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.69.208|172.69.69.208]] 07:04, 13 August 2022 (UTC) | All frames except the first and last depict a mug; a topologist most definitely discerns between a a cup and a mug because they give different answers, the "normal" person is only questioning a specific feature, and the philosopher is clearly considering a mug. If it's part of the joke the only contrast is the question. Seems way too subtle for Mr Munroes normal style. probably just what he is used to calling it. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.69.208|172.69.69.208]] 07:04, 13 August 2022 (UTC) | ||
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We have a lot of visual aids for topology in this comic, and none for the article about 2625: Field Topology. That seems backwards to me.[[Special:Contributions/172.69.22.39|172.69.22.39]] 22:47, 13 August 2022 (UTC) | We have a lot of visual aids for topology in this comic, and none for the article about 2625: Field Topology. That seems backwards to me.[[Special:Contributions/172.69.22.39|172.69.22.39]] 22:47, 13 August 2022 (UTC) | ||
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The philosopher may be referencing the following thought experiment: If you add a hole to a balloon, the result is equivalent to a flat disk that has 0 holes. Therefore, a balloon has -1 holes. (See [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymF1bp-qrjU this Stand Up Maths video] for instance.) [[Special:Contributions/172.69.22.145|172.69.22.145]] 18:51, 14 August 2022 (UTC) | The philosopher may be referencing the following thought experiment: If you add a hole to a balloon, the result is equivalent to a flat disk that has 0 holes. Therefore, a balloon has -1 holes. (See [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymF1bp-qrjU this Stand Up Maths video] for instance.) [[Special:Contributions/172.69.22.145|172.69.22.145]] 18:51, 14 August 2022 (UTC) | ||
:Dear topologists, which interior is the inside of a balloon? {{w|Relative interior}} or one of its see-alsos, or something else? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.199|172.69.33.199]] 21:46, 14 August 2022 (UTC) | :Dear topologists, which interior is the inside of a balloon? {{w|Relative interior}} or one of its see-alsos, or something else? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.199|172.69.33.199]] 21:46, 14 August 2022 (UTC) | ||
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I think the philosopher explanation is a bit misleading? "Now" refers to the hypothetical scenario in which there is an extra hole. Natural language philosophy is often (always?) ambiguous, but philosophers generally accept that some interpretations are misreadings and apply the principle of charity. They are not known for "gotcha" trick questions. Rather, Hairbun's question is an example of an "intuition pump", a hypothetical scenario intended to test the reader's intuitions with regard to the concept. So in this case, we might expect the reader to answer that there are now n+1 holes, where n = the number of holes before we made a new hole. You could poll people with this question to get data on the popular understanding of "hole" and "cup" as used in everyday language. [[User:Wordnerd|Wordnerd]] ([[User talk:Wordnerd|talk]]) 01:56, 15 August 2022 (UTC) | I think the philosopher explanation is a bit misleading? "Now" refers to the hypothetical scenario in which there is an extra hole. Natural language philosophy is often (always?) ambiguous, but philosophers generally accept that some interpretations are misreadings and apply the principle of charity. They are not known for "gotcha" trick questions. Rather, Hairbun's question is an example of an "intuition pump", a hypothetical scenario intended to test the reader's intuitions with regard to the concept. So in this case, we might expect the reader to answer that there are now n+1 holes, where n = the number of holes before we made a new hole. You could poll people with this question to get data on the popular understanding of "hole" and "cup" as used in everyday language. [[User:Wordnerd|Wordnerd]] ([[User talk:Wordnerd|talk]]) 01:56, 15 August 2022 (UTC) | ||
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