Talk:2932: Driving PSA

Did the best I could on the explanation, even if it's a bit clunky. Trogdor147 (talk) 03:59, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Pretty lame strategy. Even with someone waving me on, when I get past them I'll look to the right to make sure. Barmar (talk) 04:22, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Right? Just pull into the median in front of the left-turners, then re-assess the situation. --Coconut Galaxy (talk) 12:59, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Just an FYI: It's illegal to use turn lanes for merging, & illegal to wait mid-intersection. By law, you must not enter the intersection until the right-of-way is clear. No stopping partway through; that can get you a ticket.

ProphetZarquon (talk) 18:07, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

As a pedestrian (amongst my other road-uses), I occasionally have to cross a two-lane carriageway (to the median, then across the opposite two-lane carriageway) near a junction (roundabout, in the UK; and the first lane dedicated to turning in (left, equiv. to a US right-turn) to the side-road) and the initial lane is often either entirely empty or jammed up by those trying to turn into the retail park that sits there. I have to juggle the kindness of drivers who will slow (or stay stopped) to let me across their lane with the possibility of having other (faster-moving) traffic still coming up on the other lane. It's possible to use the twixt-lane white line as a kind of unofficial demi-median (the stopped driver will not forget that they let you go there), but I'd rather not surprise the through-traffic lane by giving them an alarming glimpse of a pedestrian maybe about to step out in front of them, so I might try to indicate to the kind driver (with friendly gestures) that I'm observing someone coming up on their offside (due to slight bend, on entry to the junction, they might not see them in their own offside mirror), perhaps even then stand back and wave them past because I can see a glut of offside traffic, from my head-height position. Or just avoid those times of the day when there's heavy shopping/commuting traffic causing that sort of problem.

(Yes, it is a proper crossing point. Dropped kerbs for those that need dropped kerbs, though not given pelican/zebra/etc explicit crossing markings and signage. An alternate way 'across' is a walk down to a canal that the onward road crosses by bridge, under that bridge on the tow-path and then back to meet the opposite side of the road.)

The junction-exit carriageway is far simpler. You can see when traffic is coming down the through-road or spinning round the island from the RP exit (or U-turning from the first carriageway!) and either there's a third-of-a-mile queue backed up from the next junction or there's no traffic impeding those going that way to leave me with space to cross.

The opposite crossing is a matter of the 'easy' junction-exit carriageway (as just given) plus an unrestricted view of the fast-lane, but then you need to catch the eye of any queued turn-lane vehicles (and look at what round-the-roundabout traffic might be holding the front of that queue up, in the near future) to make sure that when you take advantage of a clear offside then the subsequent nearside cars don't start shuffling up. And recognise the oblivious/inconsiderate/obtuse drivers by their general road positioning and attitude at the wheel. (It's a bit of an art, but stood me in good stead so far.)

There is also, elsewher, a particularly akward right-turn (UK, remember) onto a mainish road, that I sometimes need to drive round. It comes in as single-becoming-double lane, but these days that double is buslane and singular other (from the right, the double-becoming-single is also buslane nearside, except for inward turners who aren't in contention with me but are potentially view-blocking). Between the two carriageways (which merge, at the single-lane side, as two standard single contra-carriageways beyond an actual light-controlled staggered pedestrian crossing) is the central turning refuge that I potentially need to pause in to turn right, and left-approaching traffic may need to pause in (crossing my path) to turn into the road I'm emerging from. The most problematic are the turning-in cars that don't signal (or far too late), given that everyone (not a bus) has to keep right anyway on this widened stretch, but some of them are keeping right in order to turn right. And driver-to-driver visual communication (or even seeing if they're glancing in your direction/meeting your questioning gaze) is isn't helped by angled windscreens often drowning out (apparent) driver-on-driver visibility by the reflection of the sky above. So it pays to be cautious, and taking a moment before taking apparent cues (arm waves, light flashes, etc) as you think they might be intended. 172.70.160.248 15:55, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Not reading all that. Psychoticpotato (talk) 12:42, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Maybe they're not trying to kill Randall, but the person in the other lane. 172.71.154.225 05:00, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

It doesn't even need to be a fatal crash. Maybe the person in the other lane is an obstetrician who will intercede in a complex childbirth, and this "accident" will be major enough that that no longer happens, and the child dies... Yorkshire Pudding (talk) 06:55, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Or possibly the aim is actually to engineer a meet-cute between Randall and the driver of the other car, so that a critical birth can (eventually) take place...172.70.160.249 08:24, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Well now I want to see a movie where there is a tragic accident and the dying words of one character to another that survives is to take care of their spouse (critically injured in said accident) and their turbulent and tumultuous relationship as they try to get over both survivors guilt and potentially blaming themselves/each other for the death of that first character. 172.70.38.21 19:37, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Just curious, as I'm from Germany - does the USA have no traffic lights? 198.41.242.210 07:15, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

They do, and they are placed where you can actually see them --Coconut Galaxy (talk) 12:59, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

They do, and they're placed where they can be used for Captcha challenges.172.70.86.81 14:28, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Only on some intersections. This is likely a case where a relatively small / quiet road intersects with a busy one. Traffic lights tend to be used in the USA where both roads intersecting are beyond a minimum throughput of traffic to justify the cost. 172.64.238.33 12:06, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

I think I've seen such setups in Ohio, but here in New Jersey I cannot imagine a scenario like this. Any movement between a divided highway and another road where left turns are allowed in both directions will be controlled by a traffic light with a left arrow. 162.158.63.69 16:03, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Uncontrolled intersection with a left turn onto a 4-lane road? US road design, combined with US car-centric settlement planning, must have been made by those more clever, trying-harder assassins that Randall mentions in the title text, and it looks like they've got a lot of people on their list. 162.158.229.131 07:20, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

If it was a single lane street, and not three-lane road (or stroad), then accepting granting the right of way / waving in would be perfectly safe (assuming that you watch left). --JakubNarebski (talk) 07:23, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

This is very common in some areas such as Tucson, AZ. --172.70.214.66 17:11, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. This is likely a case where a relatively small / quiet road intersects with a busy one. Traffic lights tend to be used in the USA where both roads intersecting are beyond a minimum throughput of traffic to justify the cost. 172.64.238.33 12:06, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Outside of US, joining a "quiet" road onto one that is so "loud" that it needs two lanes each way *and* a separated median is ... kinda crazy. The fact that you see it as "normal as per the minimum throughput criteria" shows that you're entrenched in a car-centric view. Any sane non-US road designer either doesn't join two roads together in the first place when the loud/quiet ratio is so out-of-whack, or if they *have* to join them (but still don't want traffic lights) then they'll provide something along the lines of a merge/acceleration lane, or a "no left turn" traffic control. 172.68.64.223 03:38, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

UK roads vary considerably in this. If sufficient side-road use, then lights may be used (with proximity sensors, if side-traffic is light but ocasionally needs to get a chance to get out by pausing through-traffic), but for very minor roads abutting sufficiently major ones (to have medians and multiple lanes per direction) they may just have no cross-median (to turn across and right), just left-turn (merge onto the nearside) and rely upon the roundabout not far down the road to allow seemless U-turn for those needing that direction. This is the default for 'motorway standard' roads (actual "M-roads", including "A#(M)" ones, and upgraded trunk-roads probably maintained/developed under Highway Authority budget rather than anything left to (sub)regional-responsibility) which now have far fewer roundabouts even (except as flyovers, of various configurations, up slip-roads), in the name of keeping the traffic flowing.

Roundabouts do a lot of this heavy lifting for any road less than motorway standard, and motorway-standard junctions will have fly-over/-under for one or other topological permutation of a cloverleaf junction so that you always merge from the left.

If the median-based cross-slip is still used, then it'll often include a widening of median for sufficient length to have deceleration lanes (the comic one looks rather short, as evidenced by there being no more room for any further cross-turning vehicle to join the queue without blocking the 'fast' lane) and a better way to observe all lanes by the onward-turning traffic and accelerate-merge properly onto the carriageway. If it isn't (especially as per illustrated for Highway Code item 173) then you're expected to use best judgement to deal with it.

With a few caveats (such as there clearly having been enough instantaneous traffic to fill up the cross-turn deceleration lane, which can't be 'all' explained by the right-of-way-waiving vehicle, and some slightly different shapes of kerbing in the vicinity), you certainly could see an equivalent-but-mirrored junction as the comic in the UK. You could also see the non-turning vehicle zooming through, but a) it should not be sitting in the offside lane (unless overtaking an unseen, off-comic vehicle on the nearside), and b) it'll probably be going faster (technically could be up to 70MPH for National Speed Limit on dual-carriageway, though it's very likely the junction itself will be re-restricted down to 60MPH or even 50MPH). Not that drivers necesarily keep out of the 'overtaking' lane(s) when they don't need to, or stay below the statutary/posted limits. And if this is an 'urban trunkroad' it may actually even be 40MPH all the way, with frequent 30MPH (or even 20MPH) sideroads feeding/fed-by it.

But there'll be exceptions, both more restrictive and less restrictive, than even the various range of places and solutions that I can immediately bring to mind. 172.69.195.180 23:02, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Ok, but... time traveller asassins don't get sent for random harmless people? Getting not one, but MULTIPLE asassins hell-bent on offing him suggests he's going to do something incredibly bad for the world that they're trying to prevent?? 162.158.103.68 08:35, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Randall isn't random and it's not entirely clear that he's harmless either. 172.70.91.146 (talk) (please sign your comments with ~~~~)

It seems reasonable to guess that the future assassins were sent to prevent Randall from writing this very same strip, as it was thwarting many of their other future asassination attempts. Rumormonger Omega (talk) 14:40, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

You are assuming the assassins are "good guys", it is just as likely that Randall will do something that most of us would regard as a good thing but it impedes the assassin's, or their master's, evil plan; akin to Skynet sending the Terminators to kill Sarah/Young John Connor to remove the human resistance as an effective counter to the machine uprising. There's also the possibility that Randall is part of a "butterfly effect" scenario where he doesn't directly do anything of note, but something he does will have downstream effects that result in someone else doing something impactful to the assassin's preferred future.172.70.135.56 16:01, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

It's quite obvious that one of examples in What If 3 will be used to win World War IV. The assassins from losing side are trying to prevent writing the book, hoping that without it the other side never get so crazy idea. -- Hkmaly (talk) 19:59, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Oh boy, a comic about my second-greatest pet peeve on the road! Now if only we could have an xkcd guide to using the acceleration lane. Phil Srobeighn (talk) 09:51, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

...and turning signals... Elektrizikekswerk (talk) 09:53, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

As we do not have intersections like this, MY personal pet peeve is people stopping to wave kids over the road. Wrong for SO MANY reasons.

First, the people in the car usually don't think of the OTHER lane (and kids won't, either).

Second, I am trying to teach my kids to look left and right and only cross the road when there are no cars. If a car approaches, they are to wait until it has passed. Well, but then the car STOPS and the kid gets irritated and doesn't know what to do, because when they are small they just stare at the car and not at the driver, so they never see the waving. And so we are at a stalemate, the car is just standing there, the kid is just standing there, and chances are the kid will decide to cross the road right at the same moment the driver decides he has waited long enough.--172.70.243.227 21:29, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

A corollary PSA would be to ignore the gestures of any passengers in the other car. I've seen passengers in the front seat wave people to go ahead, without the agreement of the person actually driving the car.172.70.178.45 10:29, 14 May 2024 (UTC)Pat

I don't even drive and I hate these people lmao Psychoticpotato (talk) 12:40, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

A discussion of the liability issue in this situation. [1] Philhower (talk) 15:55, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
TL;DR: Waving makes you liable in the state of Virginia (also in Germany)

I remember when taking my driver's education class (in New Jersey, in 1987), the instructor made a point of teaching us to ignore civilians waving and to never wave other traffic anywhere. If you wave a car in this manner, and it ends up getting into a collision, you can be held liable for the damage. You could also be charged with directing traffic without authorization - something typically only done by law enforcement officers and road construction crews. Shamino (talk) 17:27, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

I must point out, no one has a privilege to go. The "right of way" only refers to the side of the road. Stop using the term wrong. SDSpivey (talk) 20:46, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm going to assume this is a joke, but for everyone who might believe it, "right of way" does indeed refer to the privilege ("right") to use a road ("way").

Like everything else in the comic and the comments here, that depends on jurisdiction. For example, in Australia "right of way" doesn't exist - at least not as a right that can be asserted. Throughout the road rule legislation, references are made to situations where a driver has to give way to other traffic, but there is nothing that explicitly gives a driver "right of way" over any other traffic. As a driver I am obliged to recognise situations where I have to give priority to other drivers, but there is no explicit right to take priority. The legislation also requires all drivers to do what they can to avoid collisions. Paddles (talk) 23:38, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

I concur. It depends on Jurisdiction. Some states definitely use the phrase "right of way" in their traffic laws. If there's an accident, the party with the right of way is presumed not at fault because he had the right to do what he did. In other states (like NJ), there is no such thing - the law only states that drivers in certain situations "must yield". In a state like this, if a traffic case goes to court, the judge will only try to determine the answer to "were you able to prevent the collision?" If you were (and in many cases, the answer is "yes" for both parties), then you may be found liable, even if the other driver violated the law (e.g by failing to yield where he was required to). Shamino (talk) 17:29, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

I want to clarify that the initial post on this thread is not entirely correct, as it is dependent on the jurisdiction, whether it be on a national level, state level, etc. Where I am from in the United States in the state of Utah, for instance, it is codified in Utah traffic code 41-6a-801 Subsections (3)(b)(i) and (3)(d) (see https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title41/Chapter6A/41-6a-S801.html?v=C41-6a-S801_2015051220150512 if you want) that traffic can turn into the turn lane and wait until the opportunity arises to merge, provided they do not travel further than 500 feet in that lane (in addition to other qualifications that are largely irrelevant to the present subject). While that is inapplicable in the case of this comic, as I do not know of ANY jurisdiction where turning onto a median itself is legal, that does not necessarily mean that it is illegal to turn into a dual direction turn lane and then merge into traffic in all jurisdictions. Apologies if I formatted this comment poorly.SilentLurker (talk) 23:00, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

If this has happened to Randall several times during the last month alone, then MAYBE he has a habit of stopping his car too far out and/or too far on the left? So that the left-turning time travellers would have difficulties getting past him? Just asking, because this is when people regularly wave ME out. --162.158.154.77 08:05, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Randall lives in Boston. When I lived in Boston variations on people helpfully waving me to my death was a common occurrence. Bugstomper (talk) 11:51, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Applauds rare actually funny use of Citation needed. 172.70.163.121 10:40, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Why does the assassin have to be time-travelling? This method would work just as well (or badly) for a regular assassin as long as they can track the car and head them off at busy intersections. As an assassination method, it leaves something to be desired because (1) collisions at 45 mph are not guaranteed to be fatal, especially side or rear collisions where the target is inside a car with modern safety features, and (2) there would be a police investigation and the assassin would have their details taken, at the least. Comsmomf (talk) 10:46, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Churchill's Law

Just to reframe "Car that they are waving you into the path of" into an awkaward phrase NOT ending in a preposition: "Car into the path of which they are waving you". (The Churchill thing is a myth, though <https://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/07/04/churchill-preposition/> .) 162.158.134.225 (talk) (please sign your comments with ~~~~)

Yuck - that construction needs waving into the path of an oncoming car. Or possibly it already has been.172.69.43.183 14:31, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

PSA

I thought PSA was Peugeot Société Anonyme, and was wondering why this was specific to French Cars. Or possibly Prostate specific antibody. Maybe Platform Security Acrhitecture

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSA

172.69.43.223 07:51, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

in America, PSA usually stands for Public Service Announcement-and Randall is from and lives in America. 42.book.addict (talk) 17:12, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

This discussion ^^

For a bicyclist like me, it is quite weird to have such a lengthy discussion about laws in using an intersection by car. Here in Germany, we would rather talk about psychological aspects (like being put under pressure by having been granted right-of-way).

I, as german bicyclist, often observe how “polite” drivers get angry because I don’t use the right-of-way they granted me. They even sometimes open their window and swear at me. (And if they are bicyclists too, they don’t even need to open the window.) It’s like some people are trying to kill me, just like Randall has exemplified here. (Oh, by the way, only males have sweared at me so far.) --172.68.195.212 08:05, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Can't speak of Germany (only been a pedestrian or car passenger, there), but I've cycled in France, Netherlands and lands inbetween. (Plus Denmark!). In Belgium in particular, motorists will patiently wait for cyclists to go first at junctions. Awkward when we've just been stopped to read the map, are still confering and aren't really in a hurry to go in the chosen direction yet.

But it's a breath of fresh air compared to here in the UK where the right-of-way of cyclists is often ignored, if not worse. Noting here that I'm talking from the perspective of cyclists who are obeying the rules of the road, and put a lot of the blame against "people on bikes" who do not. As well as excessive, yet simultaneously inadequate, cycle-paths and lanes which change everyone's expectations and make motorists and "people on bikes" convinced that the right (indeed, often obligation!) for bicycles to use the road doesn't exist.

(The more wheels being ridden on the pavement/footway, the worse. It's actually illegal, unless designated and marked as a shared/split cycle+pedestrian path, but often the limited stretch of 'token cycle infrastructure' is badly implemented/observed. I've seen bikes being ridden on the pavement at the side of a road with a cycle lane clearly marked on the roadway (and not blocked by parked cars, or anything). I'd actually rather no 'special infrastructure' and instead a universal (non-Motorway/etc, of course) acceptance that bicycles/horses/etc can and may be on the roads.)

With that, what you're getting in Germany (I've extended experience of wandering all across Berlin, albeit a couple of decades ago) is probably rooted in more sympathetic laws/practices added to the universal possibility of any road-user to be irritated by any other (with or without justification – there are bike-riders that totally get on my nerves, at least by proxy, when I see them just dodging on and off the road, on the wrong side, passing through red lights, across in-use pedestrian crossings, etc... if they aren't in contention with me, directly, they're souring the pitch for when I'm the one trying to be a responsible rider).

I also get annoyed by pedestrian and driver behaviour (or apparent obliviousness) when I'm pedestrianing/cycling/driving through the same space. Not saying that I'm perfect, or might not be seen as imperfect. If I take an opportunity to walk across/near a crossing without pressing the button, it probably is because I judge that I can dodge across between streams of traffic safely without adding the (longer than I need, and delayed before it starts) stop light to their travel woes (if I'm the only person who would be waiting). Very occasionally, a car on the opposite lane, who I had comfortably judged to have passed (with empty road behind them) before I get anywhere near them will spot me and stop (I probably then am forced to bend my path to pass behind them), misunderstanding the whole consideration I was attempting to grant them (though it often does mean they weren't hazard-perceiving enough to start with, to have only seen me as they were basically almost past me – if I were as oblivious, I'd have been walking into their side!). But the world isn't perfectly in tune.

Of course, people sealed in metal-and-glass boxes aren't as easy to transmit intentions to/from, leaving the "after you"/"no, after you"/”the thing is, I'm just pausing to decide which way to go" (howsoever abbreviated) dialogue reduced to a bit of arm-waving/hand-unfurling that might get supplemented by various mechanical audible signals or whole-vehicle micro-movements. But converging cyclists (or pedestrians) can also have that awkward period when (perhaps) both parties are fully aware of the imminent brief joining together at at the same rough space-time coordinates, but sufficiently comprehensive communication for negotiation/coordination purposes is not yet achievable. You have to take each situation as it comes, and the two parties may have entirely different mindsets and drives in control of their current attitude to cooperation in this endeavour. ("I'm late for lunch!", "Where shall I have lunch?", "That lunch really isn't agreeing with me.", "...after lunch, I'm going to have to talk to...", "I can't believe this lunchtime traffic!"...) 172.70.90.191 11:10, 17 May 2024 (UTC)