The page says it was last edited about four hours from now. I'm wondering wether the lineage of in the hall... is worth mentioning. ie Grieg composed it for an Ibsen play. 172.70.175.178 23:06, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
- (It's server time. Which is set as UTC. Currently matches central European summer time, I guess, but is one hour behind me (using BST in ordinary life), but matches me nicely when I'm back on GMT. If I read you right, I'm guessing you're on the US east-coast TZ (or equivalent, elsewhere in the Americas), and if you're on DST right now you'll find you have to mentally adjust by five whenever you're not. I imagine that logged-in people can configure dynamic time displays to local time (for themselves), but 'hard written records like on these signatures probably aren't converted 'live' (no good way to not mess up with false-changes/false-nonchanges) so there's probably no point doing that anyway. Just realise that you need to remember that it's an offset of four/five/whatever-it-might-be for your current time and place and rejoice that (with a spherical Earth, not somehow unified under one global political system that can tell all people to work with ever stranger hours of daylight, therefore with necessarily disjointed timezones) at least there's no possibility of falling off the 'edge' and perhaps into the jaws of the world-serpent. There are plenty of other problems, but not that! ...and no doubt there was discussion as to whether to align with Randall's habitual locale, instead, but more people know how to convert between their local UTC±whatever and straight UTC (or don't have to) than might be expected to reliably cross convert between two different ± values, correctly and accounting for whether either or both are DST at the moment. So I don't just say I'm happy with the situation because (for half a year) it matches my own TZ, I think it's just best all round. And doubtless various Europeans think so too (especially the other half of the year!). With apologies to Kiwis, Hawaiians and everyone else for the minor (but predictable) time-shifts they pretty kuch always have to consider, but still would even if you were happily aligned by circumstance... ;) ) 141.101.98.220 09:42, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
- No, central European summer time is TWO hours away from UTC. -- Hkmaly (talk) 20:06, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
- The UTC times are usually 4 hours ahead of me, and I'm Eastern, the first North American time zone, same as New York City and Miami (i.e. now it's just past midnight, on the West coast of North America it's just past 9pm). Usually I find my friends in U.K. are 5 hours away from me (and my time zone is always listed as -5), my family in Europe tend to be 6, but I think that changes with Daylight Savings (we ALMOST got rid of the stupid useless Daylight Savings last year, I'm hoping for this year). UTC always seems to resolve to the middle of the ocean, I always wonder why UTC exists at all, why not go with Greenwich Mean Time in such cases??? So, yeah, the "last edit" was probably just before your comment, and you're in the same time zone as me. NiceGuy1 (talk) 04:22, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
- UTC==GMT (for all practical purposes), i.e. Greenwich-zeroed, straight down the Prime Meridian (solar time) and UK-wide time when not we're not on BST==UTC+1. East Coast US is 5 hours from us, except for the week or three when either the entry or the exit from DST (I forget which one, but it is just the one or other) is not the same weekend for both UK and US, so we're disjointed by an hour (I think it reduces to 4 hours, but it's been a while since I needed to know that to avoid disturbing anyone's sleep/lunch). However, UTC definitely isn't in the ocean (well, not the main bits) like you seem to say. 172.70.85.169 05:25, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
- No, UTC=/=GMT, they're an hour apart, usually. Whenever I check. That's why it doesn't make sense. I'm not sure if it cuts into the western part of Africa, but if not that entire time zone is ocean (which may be the point, to not favour anybody). GMT, a.k.a. the time in England, is 5 hours from me, time for my friends in England are 5 hours ahead of me in Eastern, and any time I have to set my time zone it's listed as "GMT -5", usually along with one of the major cities in this time zone (like New York, Miami, Montreal, Toronto). UTC is 4, as proven by my 22 minutes past midnight comment being marked as 4:22am. EVERY time I check where 4 hours is, it's the middle of the ocean. Since it sounds like you're in the GMT zone, did you not comment at 6:25am? Two things are for sure: I'm "GMT -5" and UTC is +4 for me, making it GMT -1. NiceGuy1 (talk) 06:05, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
- Greenwich Mean Time==Coordinated Universal Time+0. I would be in GMT zone but (like your other friends, here) I'm technically in British Summer Time right now, which is +1 to either of those two. I commented then at 5:25 GMT/UTC, but it was actually 6:25 BST. Midnight+22 minutes in your timezone is 4:22am UTC/GMT right now(/then). Because whilevyou are UTC-5 for half the year, you are UTC-4 right now with DST shifting you Eastwards, into the ocean, effectively, like it shoves me 'eastwards' (into the time that Paris/etc would have, if it wasn't for Central European Time places now being Central European Summer Time at +2...).
- See my reply below, :) Though I thought GMT was simply the name for the time zone in England. My time zone being officially GMT -5 and UTC being GMT -1 by comparison seems to say you're incorrect? I swear, every country needs to just drop this Daylight Savings crap, it just causes confusion, it serves no practical purpose. NiceGuy1 (talk) 05:20, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Your mistake is in believing that GMT is ever anything other than UTC+0. And it's not DST causing confusion, because GMT never includes any DST adjustment. That's what BST is for. c.f. your(?) own EST and EDT. "London time" (or "UK..."/"English..." or whatever region/town you wish to label) varies by moving between +0 and +1 offsets on top of UTC/GMT, identically.
- The complaints about DST (in my country and yours) are well known, but different issues. Indeed, some people would prefer that we do one last "spring on" one year but then never "fall back" again. Then Greenwich (the place) might never again be at UTC, but I suspect that GMT will remain equivalent to UTC but now we'd be on British Standard Time (UTC+1/GMT+1) all year, rather than British Summer Time (likewise) for only about half of it.
- Or there are those who always wanted to just miss one 'fall back' to then align ourselves with CET/CEDT of the large swathe of Central Europe (and most places that we would cross the Channel/North Sea/Bay Of Biscay to reach), but that doesn't remove DST and as for moving towards Germany/France/etc, I suspect people would either hate that or find it now pointless since the B-word was initiated. 172.71.242.83 21:34, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
- No mistake, I'm right. EST is GMT -5, UTC -4. I don't BELIEVE this to be true, I see it on this website, I see it everywhere I have to select my time zone. These numbers are not the same. Do they look the same to you? Otherwise, this website has always misrepresented UTC as one hour earlier than it is (this website is my main source of knowing what/when UTC is), since I joined like 6 or more years ago. My midnight comment then (and it is almost 12:30 now) was labelled 4am, this one should be 4:30. These times are 5 and 5:30 in England, whenever I see what time it is in England. EVERY collection/setting of time zone labels this time zone as GMT -5. How does 4am minus 12am equal 5? Anyone in England, try pretending you're changing your computer/device's time zone to New York City or Miami, see how it says it's GNT -5. Instead of trying to call me wrong or claiming that UTC and GMT is the same, try explaining this discrepancy. And proving it like I have. ;) NiceGuy1 (talk) 04:36, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
- Can't account for anyone who has (mis-)programmed your system to perhaps call "London(/Dublin/Lisbon) Time" GMT, even when said time is shifted to BST(/equiv), which might cause you some confusion. Or where said system specifies what TZ it is (normally) talking about by the non-DST standard name (GMT, EST) then 'silently' making the system time go +1 to that (BST, EDT) when the "Use Daylight Savings Time" checkbox is both active and chronologically applicable.
- As I said, above, "UTC==GMT (for all practical purposes)". And EebstertheGreat explains below why I felt I even had to add that caveat. Noting that some 'practical purposes' (e.g. high-volume trading) should indeed be made to know the differences, where it might matter, but really it should not matter when looking at wiki changelogs/etc! ;) 172.70.85.109 12:32, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
- No, my system is correctly programmed (as is EVERYONE'S, including yours, talk to Microsoft). Ever since at least Windows 95 (I don't think Windows 3.11 and before had a timezone setting), my timezone has been listed as GMT -5. Same with anything besides Windows which has a timezone setting. I am 5 timezones away from GMT, always have been, but my comments on here get FOUR hours added to get to UTC. 4 hours from me is all ocean, as I initially said. This is confirmed by most things listing this timezone as "GMT -5: New York", "GMT -5: Miami", Toronto, Montreal... I am finding it very disappointing that multiple times I've offered/challenged a self-check, to look at the time zones on your own computers/devices, and nobody - of PEOPLE ON THIS SITE of all places - has ANY scientific curiosity to even LOOK! It takes nothing to look, it takes nothing to go through the motions of changing time zones, but it sounds clear nobody has, you're just determined to be right no matter what. NiceGuy1 (talk) 04:05, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
- GMT and UTC are basically synonyms, but both are only 'correct' time for England (and Wales, Scotland, NI, IoM, Channel Islands, non-British Ireland and the non-British Portugal; but not Gibraltar and of course other OTs ...except maybe an Antarctic base or two) for the non-DST half of the year. Wait six months, check time.is (or your favourite method of finding times in other places) and you'll be 5 hours adrift from UTC+0 and GMT. 172.70.91.66 06:32, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
- Ah, but if you take the stance of "Daylight Savings is crap", from that viewpoint it's summer that the time is correct and proper, what would be the official time for each timezone. Meaning OFFICIALLY, GMT is an hour ahead of UTC. :) It's just during winter it happens to sync up (since presumably UTC does not observe Daylight Savings Time). DST is designed for winter, to adjust the daylight to more compatible hours during the winter, to save candle usage (shows how irrelevant and out of date this practice is), the winter time is the one that would be ditched if all the countries got their acts together and dismissed this DST silliness. When the practice is dropped, GMT will be permanently an hour ahead of UTC. Hence my comments of UTC being in the middle of the ocean. :) Last year when the countries were discussing it, the plan was to just not do the Fall Back last November and stay on summer time. Also, I can't check in 6 months because hopefully by then this nonsense will be abolished. NiceGuy1 (talk) 05:09, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- No, GMT (although replaced as a standard by UTC) is always the same as UTC, for our purposes at least. It is not the same as UK local time which varies by summer/winter. Iceland does not have daylight savings and is constantly on UTC so we could talk about Reykjavík time instead. 162.158.111.223 (talk) 07:08, 20 June 2023 (please sign your comments with ~~~~)
- Strictly speaking, Greenwich Mean Time is defined astronomically, while Universal Coordinated Time is defined atomically. Leap seconds are used to keep atomic and astronomical time in synch, but between leap seconds, they can differ by as much as 0.9 seconds. They currently differ by about 0.2 seconds. EebstertheGreat (talk) 06:29, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
- If you think they're the same, how do you explain that Eastern is GMT -5 but UTC -4? 5 =/= 4. 5 != 4. 5 > 4. Eastern being GMT minus 5 is fact. Eastern being UTC minus 4 is shown all over this website (if this is true, it's just after 12:30am, this comment will have a time stamp of about 4:30 UTC. If you're right, it'll say 5:30). NiceGuy1 (talk) 04:36, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
- You're using the wrong changes. For the Eastern Time Zone, EST is UTC-5/GMT-5. But you're presumably now in EDT, which is EST+1 so UTC-4/GMT-4 (and simultaneously* BST+5, as BST is +1 to either and indeed both of the +0 measures). It seems you're mixing up what you think is being compared to what.
- * - when applicable. It turns out I was slightly wrong about one thing. GMT becomes BST at 01:00GMT on the last Sunday in March, with EST becoming EDT having changed already on the second Sunday in March (typically two weeks earlier, but depends upon the number of Sundays that cram into the month) and BST->GMT happens on the last Sunday of October whilst EDT->EST on first Sunday in November (one week apart, regardless).
- Unless things have changed since I thought one end matched the other, I was incorrect about having to only track the "different difference" between me and my transatlantic colleagues once a year (also those on the Pacific-coast at 8hrs±dif, but Japanese contacts were so far adrift it didn't really matter and Europe-wide we were already in synch as far as DST shifts), but for three (or four) weeks a year, I'd have to deal with GMT->EDT conversions (4 hours difference, and I think 7 for the likes of San Diego) when deciding when to schedule an afternoon teleconference that wasn't quite so inconveniently early in the morning for them but still meant I didn't have to stick around too far into the evening. - ...end of overlyextended footnote!
- Interesting diversion this, but probably not worth taking so much space on here. If I had an account, I'd move it to my User/User Talk pages. If you still wish to chat about it and wish to cut'ncopy it into yours, I'm sure we can continue at your pleasure, but right now I'm just Collapsing this section for the sanity of the lay-visitor to this article. Without depriving you, me or the other contributors to this tete-a-tete of its rather oddly-formed fruits. 172.70.85.109 12:32, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
- The thing is, blaming Daylight Savings Time is a nice try, but my timezone being GMT -5 is year-round, and though I haven't taken careful note, it seems like my comments on here are +4 year-round as well. It appears that neither of the things I'm saying are affected by Daylight Savings.
- Although I too had noticed that this has become a rather large diversion, size-wise (I can't miss how many colons I have to put, LOL!), I myself never seem to get activity on my Talk page - I've only had one for a few months of my years on this site - and so I don't check it, I don't know if I'd even be able to tell if I need to go look. I find this collapsing is an effective elegant solution. Plus this is a lot of content to either move or abandon. Also, due to lack of usernames I don't even know how many people I'm talking to (I sense at least 2), how many people would have to go wherever we relocate... NiceGuy1 (talk) 04:05, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
- Play with somehing like this, or its equivalent (tried some of the provided MSKB links, but they're broken/old). See that you are GMT-5 (UTC-5, by the other name) year-round, except that you're also having DST applied to that (to become GMT-4), as do those on GMT (to become +1, i.e. BST).
- Imagine the confusion of having to set(/look up) your TZ up as GMT-5 part of the year and GMT-4 for the rest of the year. What you have is "I am baseline GMT-5. And then, because I have ticked 'Use DST' (and it is in the DST period) I am additionally adjusted as required."
- You've also already been given the link to Greenwich Mean Time in which (end of first para, and whole of second para) it confirms that GMT:=BST+0.
- As per differing end-points: the US shifted the autumnal 'fall back' in 2007, apparently. Passed me, I must admit, but I didn't have much (direct, personal) contact with the US at that time of that year. 172.70.90.182 08:14, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
- WHY would I play with that Uruguay Time Zone tool when my time and timezone are already correct???!? LMAO! That seems like it's meant to change when the computer applies DST, but Microsoft already did that in an update back then. If they missed Uruguay, maybe because Uruguay changed the date some year before North America did, I'd guess Microsoft caught up by now. It's been built into Windows since. The reason you're finding broken links is because the whole concept is outdated and no longer necessary. The problem is, you keep treating me as mistaken when I haven't been. I am GMT -5. I've said that all along, and a couple of times you've told ME, as if I didn't already say it first. At least you seem to FINALLY accept that I'm GMT -5.
- What _I_ want to know now is WHY summer time is known as DST when the entire concept is designed for the WINTER, to adjust the time on the clock to favour daylight while daylight is shorter. It should be winter that's the adjusted time and called DST (making me GST -6 in the winter I guess)... Also, if UTC is another term for GMT, why does it even exist? I'm sure UTC is extremely newer, I never heard of it until I came to this site 5 or 6 years ago. What's wrong with having the site label things as GMT? Like calling this comment 5:11 GMT?NiceGuy1 (talk) 05:11, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
...you're a nice guy, NiceGuy1, but at this point I think you're being obtuse. Right now you're running at GMT-5 and in the mainland US then you're in the Central Daylight Time area. And winter is 'natural' time, or as natural as your nation decides it needs to be (c.f. China) to follow the Sun. But the daylight being saved in summer is that daylight between dawn and the time anybody but early-risers will eventually appreciate it. That time is saved, and applied to the end of the day when anybody but an abnormally early-retirer will probably make better use of it. 172.69.79.146 23:02, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
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