Editing explain xkcd:Community portal/Coordination

<noinclude>{{Community links}}

{|-
|valign="top" width="100%"|[[File:Crystal Clear teamwork.png|left|120px]] <big><big><b>Coordination</b></big></big>

<i>Community-managed page for coordinating content editing and maintenance tasks intended to aid communication, understanding, and coordination between the [[explain xkcd]] wiki community.</i> {{AddNewSection|Page=Explain XKCD:Community portal/Coordination|Text=<small>(+post)</small>}}
|}

= Discussion Area =
</noinclude>

== Issue dates ==

Hi Jeff,

As i'm creating pages I struggle with the issue dates of comics. I've added a comment to all pages that contain the (unknown/incorrect) dates. Is there a way to research those dates? --[[User:Rikthoff|Rikthoff]] ([[User talk:Rikthoff|talk]])
: [http://xkcd.com/archive/] if you mouse over the comic name, it will have the date. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 18:26, 3 August 2012 (EDT)

- if you mouse over comic name in "Archive" section of xkcd.com.  Older comics(1-44 or so) might be found in [http://liveweb.archive.org/http://xkcd-drawings.livejournal.com/?skip=40 livejournal archive][[User:Bpothier|B. P.]] ([[User talk:Bpothier|talk]]) 18:35, 3 August 2012 (EDT)

Should we consider using "2012-08-03" style dates and letting localization "do the right thing"? Most pages so far use "August 3, 2012" style dates, with a few incorrectly doing "August 3rd, 2012"... Presumably the template could do the localizing/localising...--[[User:Bpothier|B. P.]] ([[User talk:Bpothier|talk]]) 18:39, 3 August 2012 (EDT)

: The date is also available with the [http://xkcd.com/json.html JSON API], which I'm going to use for the [[User_talk:Jeff#Automatic_Import|import]]. I use <nowiki>{{#dateformat: year-month-day}}</nowiki>, MediaWiki should figure out the correct way to display it based on your preferences. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 18:47, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
<small>Moved from [[User talk:Jeff]]. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 00:15, 4 August 2012 (EDT)</small>

== Date? ==

How do I find the date a comic was first posted (to put in the comic header here?) [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 12:26, 3 August 2012 (EDT)

<small>Moved from [[Talk:Main Page]]. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 00:43, 4 August 2012 (EDT)</small>

Original posting date is listed on xkcd's [[http://xkcd.com/archive/ archive page]] as hover-text for each post.  The first 44 comics are all listed as 2006-01-01.  Many of these were previously posted on the [[http://liveweb.archive.org/http://xkcd-drawings.livejournal.com/?skip=40 livejournal site]], and some dates can be found/inferred by checking there.--[[User:Bpothier|B. P.]] ([[User talk:Bpothier|talk]]) 17:49, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

== To do list ==

I suggest a todo list to be added here so newcomers will have an idea of concrete things they can do to help. I'll start by moving some items I've been collecting on my user page. Feel free to add more :)

'''Things to do'''
* Complete all entries from the [[List of all comics]]
* [[Special:WantedPages]] lists pages that have links to them but haven't been created yet.
* More topics that could be covered here besides the comics themselves:
** our [https://twitter.com/explainxkcd twitter account]
** the xkcd irc channel (and [http://wiki.xkcd.com its wiki])
** the xkcd blag
** the xkcd forum
** other sites explaining xkcd ([http://xkcdexplained.com/], [http://xkcd.wikia.com], [http://xkcdexplained.wikia.com], [http://xkcdexplainedexplained.tumblr.com/archive], maybe invite members+content of the other wikis in once we're established?)

'''Maintenance'''
* Redirects should be created from the "File:number.png" format to the "File:title.png" format.
* categorization (make sure these lists are empty):
** [[Special:UncategorizedCategories]]
** [[Special:UncategorizedFiles]]
** [[Special:UncategorizedPages]]
** [[Special:WantedCategories]]
* building the web of links:
** [[Special:DeadendPages]] (pages with no links to other pages)
** [[Special:LonelyPages]] (pages that aren't linked to by any others)
* other
** [[Special:DoubleRedirects]]
**: (Took a chunk out of these the good ol' fashioned way, but there's got to be a wiff of Perl or Python to automate this... ? -- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 14:44, 9 August 2012 (UTC))
**:: Well, there's [https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/mwclient/ mwclient], a Python interface to the mediawiki API which I've used to move the comics to the new names. We could certainly create scripts to perform maintenance tasks and share the snippets here on the wiki. Automated tools will be useful while we establish standards early on. If you'd like help getting started, let me know. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 19:40, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
** convert [[Special:LinkSearch/en.wikipedia.org|wikipedia links]] to the <nowiki>{{w|Lorem ipsum}}</nowiki> format
** use lowercase xkcd everywhere on the wiki (see [http://xkcd.com/about/ How do I write "xkcd"?])

There are more maintenance reports at [[Special:SpecialPages]], for inspiration :) --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 06:45, 6 August 2012 (EDT)

:: I'd love one of these "To Do" lists for admins as well! :) I'm always forgetting what I need to do! --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 02:35, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
::: There actually isn't much to do that needs admin permissions around here. Right I can think of only a handful of admin-specific tasks:
:::* Keeping an eye on [[explain xkcd:Community portal/Admin requests]] for stuff other editors might need
:::* Keeping an eye on [[:Category:Pages to delete]] (currently populated by {{tl|spam}}), delete the pages, block the spammers
:::* Updating the main page and watching 
:::* Implementing any changes, agreed by the community, that require editing Mediawiki pages
:::Maybe others will have other items to add to the list, but for the most part, the things that need to be done are available to all editors: adding the missing comic explanations, describing characters, categorizing, etc. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 19:13, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Checking the above lists, here are the current stats:
* 0 [[Special:UncategorizedCategories]] (OK)
* 2,000+ [[Special:UncategorizedFiles]], most of them being part of the [[Time]] comic
* 2 [[Special:UncategorizedPages]], both related to the same [[Time]] comic
* a few [[Special:WantedCategories]], all from Babel templates on userpages i believe.
Just a FWIW or TWIMC. :) -- [[Special:Contributions/173.245.51.210|173.245.51.210]] 16:11, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
:The time-related pages can be fixed trivially. The wanted categories are kinda impossible to clear up, as userpages are typically off-limits to everyone except the owner of the userpage, unless they're a spambot. We've made pretty good progress on everything else though. '''[[User:Davidy22|<u>{{Color|#707|David}}<font color=#070 size=3>y</font></u><font color=#508 size=4>²²</font>]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 16:43, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
::The wanted categs can be cleared up by ''creating'' them, and adding them to the categ hierarchy. I'm just not familiar enough with said hierarchy. -- [[Special:Contributions/173.245.51.210|173.245.51.210]] 17:09, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

== Date categories ==
I'm not sure the "[[:Category:Comics by month|Comics by month]]", by weekday, etc. Will be much useful, unless for those interested in running some stats. It might be more interesting to have specific months, such as [[:Category:Comics from May 2011]] and so on. What do you think? --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 06:45, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
: That was actually next for me: #time:year-month, but I wanted to study the globalization implications.  I prefer over-categorizing rather than under-categorizing, since it's comparatively cheap.  The assumption is that categories are the same as tags on the old site, and that mediawiki affords us some extra ways to automatically categorize pages in addition to the manual forms starting to emerge (by character, by subject, etc.)  To paraphrase an old prof: you can't study what you don't measure; I've been wanting to see if, for example, Monday comics deal certain subjects, while Friday comics deal with another, etc. Not everybody's cup of tea, but of value perhaps to some, and insanely cheap to support both mentally and for the software. -- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 13:51, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

I also used it to find some date typos for Saturday/Sunday/Tuesday/Thursday comics, which should usually be empty - except for some early entries from livejournal... --[[User:Bpothier|B. P.]] ([[User talk:Bpothier|talk]]) 21:50, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

It does make it look a bit messy down by the categories... maybe we can skip one or two of these date categories, if people don't still find them useful? [[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 21:22, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

== Page names ==

I think we should use the comic number '''and''' the title as the page name. Like so: "112: Baring My Heart". This would allow comics to be sorted by order in categories, but the pages would still have human-readable names for those of us who don't memorize all xkcd comic numbers ;) Thoughts? --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 07:23, 6 August 2012 (EDT)

:I agree, for another reason: for instance [[YouTube]] could be either the title of a page explaining how YouTube is referenced in xkcd, or the title of the explanation for comic #202 (titled "YouTube"). I don't know if I'm being clear here, but as we do not control the titles of the comics, that could create confusion with other pages. So using something like [[202: YouTube]] would ensure disambiguation without being really complicated or awkward... And actually prefixing the comic title with its number seems quite relevant to me.
:<small>Additionally, that would solve potential problems such as [[Exoplanets]]: comic [[786]] or [[1071]]?</small>
:[[User:Cos|Cos]] ([[User talk:Cos|talk]]) 14:33, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
::Beat me to the punch; agreed.  Numbers are unique and sequential, but not altogether that meaningful.  Names are meaningful but (as we've seen) not unique.  Some combination of both would be called for.  We'd need to have the plain numbers redirect to the new topic (some double-redirects would need to be fixed up?) and the names would too (with at least one disambiguation page for now, and who knows: maybe more to come?) -- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 13:55, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
::Following up on the YouTube discussion above, I'm wondering if we should leverage namespaces more: main:topic is implicitly ''xkcd:topic'' (ie ''main:YouTube'' discusses the xkcd comic, while ''ref:YouTube'' is the place where the pop-culture reference of YouTube is discussed.)  Either that, or some other name decoration, such as ''YouTube Explained'', or ... -- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 13:59, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
::: Agreed.  Number and the name together. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 16:08, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
:::: Looks like we have consensus. I'll move the pages (I've been meaning to learn how to use [https://sourceforge.net/projects/mwclient mwclient] anyway :D) --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 18:01, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
:::: {{done}}, all current pages have been moved. However, I am not sure whether we should keep a space after the colon. What do you guys think? Should it be "112: Baring My Heart" or "112:Baring My Heart"? --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 18:20, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
::::: Also, I just realized MediaWiki doesn't allow colons in image Filenames. One solution could be using something like [[:File:786. Exoplanets.png]] or [[:File:786-Exoplanets.png]], but then perhaps we'd have to change the pages name too, for consistency? I'll try to investigate what is the reasoning behind this restriction. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 18:50, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
:::::: Ok, it seems like it's a matter of setting <code><nowiki>$wgIllegalFileChars = '';</nowiki></code> in LocalSettings.php (because it is set as <code>$wgIllegalFileChars = ':';</code> in DefaultSettings.php). <s>Jeff, could you do that please?</s> --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 19:13, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
:::::::: Nevermind, we will probably use a different naming pattern instead. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 20:05, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

::::::: I guess this is my bad for not ciming in on this discussion earlier, but I frankly think that the #: Name is a worse way of doing it just for the reasons of system resources. #:Name is fine from a user standpoint with the '''caveat''' that # and Name both redirect to #:Name. The problem is that this requires 2 redirects minimum for every comic, and the redirect itself takes a bit more time for each article to load, and (as I understand from wikipedia and its dislike of double redirects), every redirect adds to the system load. So if every article lookup by users (who will undoubtedly type either the number or the name, but rarely both) is a redirect, the system load is going to go up.

::::::: As an aside, assuming Jeff is able to install the Cite Extension to add citation referencing (and even if he doesn't), I was expecting to try to create some sort of template in the concept of {{tl|cite comic}} where you could basically pass a single variable (e.g. the comic number) and it would create a proper citation for that comic. Similarly, this naming format will perhaps require a template something like {{tl|comicno}} with a comic number field just to create a quick link that is visibly appealing and links properly to the comic with that number. (ie:  {comicno|18} would produce a link like  "[[18: Snapple|Snapple]]" or something). I'm wondering though if anyone has any coding ideas for how we might accomplish this other than the hardcode all the titles into a template. [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 19:26, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

::::::: PS: I did some mild digging on another wiki, ''Star Trek'''s Memory Alpha wiki, and although all of its episode articles are now titled "episode title (episode)" to avoid disambiguation, which allows you to an episode template by calling the title (which template appends "(episode)" to every entry), they DO have a title-display template: [http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Template:Titles Template:Titles] - with a template subpage for every single episode setting out how the mouseover text should be displayed. It would be possible to do such a template for xkcd just so that comic numbers can be crossreferenced to titles... [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 20:30, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
:::::::: (Hoping this is the right number of colons for proper indentation... ;-)  Redirects are one thing, and while probably resulting in possibly two page serves (isn't it really just two hits to the db?) they're natively supported by mediawiki.  Even so, if performance is proven to be a real (not just conjectured) problem, can we do something clever, perhaps, with transclusion?  Either the number transcludes the title, or vice versa?  Might be a case of pre-optimization, though; in the back of my mind, it seems that the rendering engine puts as much effort into transcluding to expand templates as it would to expand a redirect in situ: either case is just a query to the DB to expand the contents of said item.  (Enough rambling; anybody have any concrete metrics on this?) -- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 06:23, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
:::::::::Hi folks. Just thought I'd state that redirects are completely safe. They don't add any noticeable loading time for the users and the extra resources used by the server are so minor that it's akin to the resources used to type a character in notepad. Pages are also aggressively cached (by default, anyway). If you're interested, the way redirects work in Mediawiki isn't like most other sites handle redirects. It's not loading a page that makes you load another page. Rather, all content is stored in an SQL database. The content is stored under a certain name (eg, "#: Hello World!"). A redirect simply tells Mediawiki to look for the content under a different name. Slightly more work for the server (don't worry, they can handle it), but the page is delivered to the user in roughly the same period of time (if we want to be technical, the page will be slightly larger, due to the "Redirected from whatever" line added to the page (which is mostly there for the purpose of making it easier to fix incorrect redirects). I don't have metrics, but can assure you that it's almost no difference in the end result. {{User:Omega/sig}} 09:11, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

I've been thinking about this some more, and I believe we should choose a different pattern for the page names.
* First, use another separator between comic number and name, since colon is forbidden in files. A simple alternative would be "Comic title (number)", as in [[Michael Phelps (1092)]]. This would additionally allow us to use the {{w|Help:Pipe trick|pipe trick}} when linking to a comic, since content in parenthesis is automatically stripped out: <nowiki>[[Michael Phelps (1092)|]]</nowiki> results in [[Michael Phelps (1092)|Michael Phelps]]. Another effect of this is that by dropping the colon naming scheme we would remove ambiguity with the namespace system, which also uses colons to separate namespaces from pagenames.
* Second, we should probably follow IronyChef's suggestion above and move them to a specific namespace, such as [[Comic:Michael Phelps (1092)]]. Other namespaces could be added for more topics, such as [[Character:Cueball]], [[xkcd:Randall]] (or [[Meta:Randall]]), [[Topic:Velociraptors]], etc. Not only we would be able to generate lists of pages without resorting to categories (which have to be added manually), but we would get lot's of "Random X" for free (random comic, random character, random topic, etc.)
What do you guys think? --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 14:29, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
:P.s. - Proper category sorting of the comics would be dealt with by the {{tl|comic}} template, which would also pad the numbers with zeroes to ensure 100 comes after 2, etc.

::+1 on the parens... (but does that mean my recent double-redirect-fixups have been for naught? {{xkcd|541|(grin)}}) ... I couldn't put my finger on it and didn't articulate it earlier, but the fact that colon needed special attention by the software left me a bit uneasy (there must be a reason for them doing that, like namespaces perhaps) so using parentheses-es-es (as {{xkcd|297|long}} as we {{xkcd|859|close}} them {{explain|312|properly}}) seems more the mediawiki way. -- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 15:03, 9 August 2012 (UTC) (I know you folks don't like my propensity to (over?)categorize, but <nowiki>[[Category:Parentheses]]</nowiki> is just too irresistible... ;-)

:I think, that all of this seem unnecessary complication to me. I don't see any problem with the current system. I think something like [[1092: Michael Phelps]] flows well, is quite readable and easy to insert "as is" in the text (see the links to other comics in [[1048: Emotion]] for instance). As I understand, we would want the image files to be titled exactly the same way as their corresponding article; why, where is the need for that? (to me the simplest way, and most relevant maybe, would be to name them exactly as they are on xkcd.com; maybe with a prefix, like "xkcd - ", so that it cannot mess with other existing images such as from Commons).
:I don't see the point of creating namespaces such as "Character", "Topic", etc.; what is the problem with [[Beret Guy]], [[Randall Munroe]], [[Velociraptors]], and such? with namespaces one will have to put each topic in one box (and one only), where will you put things like [[Stick figure]] or [[My Hobby]] or any other thing that will pop up without clearly belonging to one of these boxes? ''[[1077: Home Organization|just give up]]!'' :-)
:About the "Random X", I like the idea that on xkcd.com, you can get a random ''comic'' (because that's all what is there), but in here you can get a random whatever: you may get a comic explanation, a character, a topic or anything, because in here there is all that.
:I don't think the colon in the comic page names will pose any problem, it cannot mess with anything as long as it is preceded by a number only.
:''In the end,'' I think that adding the number in the comic page names was a good choice, because there would have been real issues otherwise, but for now I would say : "don't fix what is not broken", KISS, and "just give up". :-)
:[[User:Cos|Cos]] ([[User talk:Cos|talk]]) 16:14, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

:: I have to agree with this. The existing page names are fine in my book, and I don't see any benefits of renaming them all (again). Concerning the random, though, I mentioned an extension in proposals that would allow us to choose a "random page in a category". I don't really care one way or another about character topics. Seem like a lot of maintenance when we don't even have a quarter of the comics explained yet, but whatever. Concerning the image names, I think that simply using the same name as it appears on xkcd is fine. Images are a bit of a "backend", that people don't usually search for (rather, they'd search for the comic and find the image on that page). As well, since all images are hosted on xkcd, they won't be any file name conflicts amongst the comics. {{User:Omega/sig}} 18:04, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

::: Good points (and puns!), all of you. I'd like to address a few specific points (I'll highlight the key takeaways for your convenience):
:::* '''I still prefer parenthesis''' for the simple reason that colons mess with the concept of namespaces (not that it has any effect on the software, which can cope quite well; I'm speaking from a user point of view). Besides, one of the reasons I proposed for having the number first was automatic category sorting, but that backfired (cf. #2 vs. #100).
:::* Re rationale for having image files titled like the comics is that it would allow automatic image inclusion via the {{tl|comic}} template. However, having the prefix is not crucial for that (hadn't thought of this before), so I'll go ahead and remove my suggestion above to allow colons in filenames.
:::* Note that there's no problem with "conflicts" with Commons images: an image uploaded here simply takes precedence regarding an image uploaded to commons under the same name (e.g. [[:File:Irony.jpg]] vs. [[commons:File:Irony.jpg]]). That said, while external conflicts aren't a problem, internal ones are (e.g. [[Exoplanets]]). That, coupled with the "it's just a backend" point made by Omega, is a good argument to '''use the original filenames''' (also, less overhead when uploading a new comic)
:::* I understand the argument against a single primary way to classify a page using namespaces. The category system is more flexible as it allows many-to-many relationships. However, I must point out that the examples you give are no problem at all: [[Meta:Stick figure]] and [[Topic:My Hobby]] ;) So '''I'm still not convinced that using custom namespaces is a bad idea''' or a lost cause or that it won't scale up well. Besides, it makes it very clear what a reader will find on that page (explainxkcd.com/wiki/Topic:Velociraptors is a pretty self-explanatory url). And again, it allows us to use the random feature that is natively implemented on mediawiki, rather than an extension. And "random whatever" is still available, of course :)
:::* IronyChef, by all means, please create [[:Category:Parentheses]] :D
::: --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 20:05, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

:::If we're going to use the numbers in the titles, it seems logical to have the number come first so that comics are essentially sortable by number rather than alphabetically by title; although this probably can be taken care of by changing the sort title, thoug this could be tedious.

:::I don't support new namespaces for comics and characters and whatnot. I don't see what it adds to the wiki, and it just makes the links to each comic page ''even longer'' (no one will EVER correctly search for '''Comic:Snapple (18)''' on their first attempt).

:::I am not claiming to be an expert on redirects. My comment was based on wikipedia pages like {{w|Wikipedia:Double redirects}} where it clearly suggests in the lead that double redirects "waste server resources". I assume this applies (at to a lesser degree) to single redirects. They may not be needless waste like double redirects, but they they do use resources. Granted wikipedia has far larger servers and much more traffic, so it may be more relevant to them than here, but it still would appear to be a resource issue; Database queries are still resource hogs, even if they are simple ones. Not suggesting they aren't safe, but if every comic load is basically a redirect, that is still two queries every time instead of just the occasional one. I'm fine with it; I'm just pointing out the issue. [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 16:20, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

::::The reason that double redirects are bad is that linking a redirect to another redirect (a double redirect) causes the first redirect to simply display the content of the second redirect (rather than actually redirecting the page). This appears as simply an arrow and a link (a soft redirect). It uses more system resources because an actual page has to be loaded and displayed, forcing the user to manually click the link and display the proper page (whereas a single redirect would load the correct page and display it). So in other words, a double redirect forces two pages to be loaded, while a single redirect only loads one page, more or less the same as if you went to the actual page title. {{User:Omega/sig}} 21:35, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

::::: Also, regarding the sorting argument for using numbers first: I was the one who originally proposed that, but I overlooked the fact that sorting won't work unless we use padding (e.g. "0001: Comic title"), which is kind of a hack. MediaWiki supports category sort keys natively, so we should be taking advantage of them rather than relying on a specific page title format to achieve the same effect.
::::: As for the namespaces, I think I've presented my arguments for that above; let me know if any of them are unclear. I accept that one may disagree with them, but not that there ''aren't'' any benefits. Note that '''nobody''' will correctly seach for whatever page title we use, unless we use only the numbers as the final title, which I think we all agree is not desirable. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 11:25, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

::::::Thanks for the double-redirect explanation, Omega. To Waldir; I think people would also correctly search for Comic Titles, at times. Some more than others, for sure. But if you are on XKCD reading a comic that has a title printed, and you want to come here and read the explanation, You would most likely search for either the number or the title that is displayed at xkcd.com. That said, if it's not a resource hog, and we can find a GOOD way to create links to comics easily (ie: I can type in {explain|123} and actually get a proper looking link to that comic's page, I'm cool with that. I really think it will add a lot of time to the edit process to have to manually type in 123: Title for every link to another comic. [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 14:32, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

== Comic Display - another new template ==

I see that the latest comics have changed over to {{tl|comicbox}} from {{tl|comic}}. This might be in response to today's tall narrow comic. I don't see any recent discussions about the {{tl|comicbox}} template. We really need to come to some form of consensus on the comic display issue. I am really not a fan of the {{tl|comicbox}} template, as I arrive at the homepage today and I don't understand what I'm seeing. There is no indication that the text on the right is the Explanation. I wasn't sure if part of it was title text or not. I figured it out, but it's not the easiest thing to see. I also don't think the navbuttons jutting right up against the top of the comic display box looks good.

Eithe way, where I'm going with this is that I think we need to come to a consensus on the form and template used for comic pages. If we choose comicbox, or comic or some other template, it's all good; but we should be editing ONE template to get it working and looking the way we want; rather than bouncing between many templates and creating new ones. [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 16:26, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
:Yeah, I was really confused at first, and scrambled through the discussions trying to find what happened. To be honest, I'm more of a fan of the {{tl|comic}} template, with the explanation under a header explaining so. Not to mention with {{tl|comicbox}}, I'm suddenly unsure of what to do with the transcripts. For comparison, [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1093:_Forget&oldid=6199 here] is the {{tl|comic}} template, while [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1093:_Forget&oldid=6209 here] is the {{tl|comicbox}} template. At any rate, no matter what template we're using (I personally prefer {{tl|comic}}, but don't really care that much provided all comics use the same template), I agree that we need some kind of consensus to determine how we're formatting the page. {{User:Omega/sig}} 21:31, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
::Ditto on the confusion (augmented by the confusion of finding where the pertinent discussion has gotten off to; they seem to slip from page to page between visits... )  Anyway, I'm guessing this is a ''de-gustibus'' matter, but regardless of the respective virtues of either template, to my eye the template today's comic was changed to has {{explain|1070|a couple}} cosmetic shortcomings: 
::* The typeface is larger than normal.  Just a personal preference, but it should be scaled 100% vs adjacent normal wiki text; readers can change the level of zoom if that's too small.  Also, 
::* the image is vertically centered, so in the case of a disproportionately long explanation (like today's) it appears too far down the page; it really needs to be top-aligned, with the title text close underneath it.  Further, 
::* for this vertical layout, there's a lot of wasted vertical space when the explanation is so much longer than the image.  Rather than having two rigid columns, have we considered '''float:left''' or '''float:right''' style attributes on the image, so that whatever text is left flows to fill the entire space below the image?
:: Finally, to tie this all up with a bow, (and perhaps raising an issue that may have been raised before; I don't recall, because of the shifting locations of discussions hereabouts) ... Is there a need for images to always be shown at 100% size, especially for the more extremely sized ones?  Seems to me that the images here really only need to fulfill a refresher role, and clicks through the image should take the reader to the full-sized image on xkcd.com.  Legally, I know we have the right to host the images here.  But morally, it seems like we shouldn't be taking too much traffic away from xkcd.com as it is RM's bread and butter.  Our value-add is the in the form of explanations: long as we can visually tie these explanations with the comic (by having something bigger than a thumbnail, but somewhat smaller than full size, especially for odd-shaped ones) I think we're on the positive side.  Thotz?  -- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 05:23, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
:::I agree with you on all points, although I'm really not a fan of having the text either beside or under the comic. I'd rather it be the same in all cases. In which case, having the text beside the comic won't do, as wide comics wouldn't be very supportive of that. Also, if the explanation is considerably longer than the comic, it just looks a bit strange to me. Float left/right would fix that, but would be a bit harder to implement with the title text (eg, if the title text and image are inside a float left div, does that div have a fixed width or does a long title text push it over?).  All in all, I'd rather the text always be below the comic. It's consistent and less problematic. Regarding the size of comics, I'd rather we use the full size in all cases except the "large" comics (defined as the comics that are shown at a reduced size on xkcd itself, such as [[1079: United Shapes]]). Why? Because when I'm reading an explanation to a comic I don't understand, I'm constantly referencing the explanation with the comic itself. Having to open a new tab each time would make that a bit less convenient. {{User:Omega/sig}} 06:38, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
::::For visual experimentation, I've made the theoretically uncontroversial changes of text size (it's now expressed as relative percentage rather than absolute px) and I made the image top-aligned, so comics like {{explain|1093}} show the image near the top of the explanation, despite the explanation being many multiples of that image's height; we can change that back if we don't like them.  There are other changes I'd like to make (see above) but I'll wait for general agreement on that (not to mention which template to use.) -- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 15:39, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

:::::To respond to all of the previous comments; I echo IronyChef's thought - I built into {{tl|comic}} an imagesize attribute because I believe that the comic should be a managable size on this site; generally not more than say 400px; this creates a "click to enlarge" link which takes the user to the imgae's page. Although I previously thought that a balance needs to be kept because people may start coming to the wiki to read xkcd in the first instance instead of xkcd.com, I also agree with Omega's point that it's potentially unfair to Randall to entice traffic away from xkcd.com. This strengthens my belief that larger comics should be kept to a reasonable size.

:::::Not sure if I said it in this thread, I think we have to look at the purpose of the box itself. In my eyes, the box is designed (like an infobox) to basically show the user the basic facts. Not user-added material or encyclopedia text. The box, in my view, is there to present all of the info about the comic that actually comes from xkcd. The image, the alt text, the title, date and number. Adding the explanation in the box basically makes the explanation look official as part of the comic. The primary content of this site is the explanations. If anything should go under proper wiki-format headers, it's that (in my opinion). The transcript is technically official content, but as I've said elsewhere, in my view, the transcript is secondary info that the comic already contains; it doesn't need to be in the infobox. IronyChef has indentified and fixed a lot of my minor cosmetic issues with the comicbox template, and there are others I don't like either (the title font is a little too weak and the top of the box is touching the bottom of the nav buttons. Don't like those, but again, easily fixable).

::::: I also think while there may be instances like the "Forget" comic which is a list-form comic where having a long vertical list explanation works, a long vertical list is often harder to read and follow than a full-page-width explanation. (even "Forget" has each line of explanation end up being several lines long in {{tl|comicbox}} format.) Worse, the potential to want to fit in the box may limit users from adding to explanations which we shouldn't encourage. If the explanation is twice as long as the comic, there's nothing wrong with that, and it shouldn't look bad by going inside the template. I appreciate the attempt that the verticle comicbox makes to not waste space (using the two-column method) but I don't think this is the way to do it. I think shrinking the comic (and accepting that there will be space on either side) is the best way. As I say, 375px or 400px seem like logical limiters for most comics. This is explainxkcd, so you shouldn't have to scroll way down to get to the explanation. I too sometimes like to view the comic and explain at the same time to check notes as Omega suggests, but I can do that by control+click or shift+clicking the image to enlarge, and comparing in separate windows by tiling them or just switching back and forth - with a larger comic, you'd have to scroll up and down to read both the comic and the explanation anyway. I find I lose my place in the text when I do that. alt+Tabbing for me generally is easier to keep my place in both windows.

:::::The one thing from {{tl|comicbox}} that I do like is that the box is shaded slightly bluegray. I like the separation that creates; on the other hand, xkcd.com has comics posted on white; does it hurt the integrity of any comics to have them posted on blue-grey instead of white? I'd consider changing the background of {{tl|comic}} to a blue-gray (though perhaps lighter than the one on comicbox) if people like that. That's my thoughts[[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 15:10, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

{{outdent|:::::}}
{{tl|ComicBox}} just got a major redesign. It looks more like {{tl|comic}}, but with the addition of a vertical comic mode. Also, bear in mind that {{tl|comic}} doesn't use white for the background. For comics like "Forget", take a look at [[Forget comicbox]]. Looks ok? --[[User:Grep|Grep]] ([[User talk:Grep|talk]]) 15:27, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

:As noted on [[explain xkcd:Community portal/Proposals#Comic Templates]], there is no need to start a new thread there there there is already a thread on the topic here (which you've posted to). Also, if your post was "which template should we use when?" it's not really a "proposal" for the proposals page, and better fits here under coordination.

:That said, I thought this topic was fairly well resolved. Jeff endorsed {{tl|Comic}} in the [[#Header_template]] discussion on this page, and this subsequent discussion seemed to resolve as well with no real consensus that a change from {{tl|comic}} was necessary or beneficial. I don't see the benefit of continuing to build new templates that basially duplicate existing templates with one extra function (vertical mode). That could have been built into the existing template, if it were deemed necessary.

:I personally think there are still pluses and minuses to doing things vertically; It looks a little cluttered to have the comic up on one size and the explanation on the other. If you don't have a high-resolution desktop or you want a non-maximized window, there may not be much space for the explanation which may end up with two or three words per line and be hard to read and annoying. "Forget" was a comic featuring a long list; this made for a very long listed explanation. Most long comics will not have explanations longer than the comic, and we'll have a lot of whitespace to the right of the comic. It just looks cluttered to me. I like having the navbar centered above the comic, not the page (and also in the enclosed comic box). That's personal preference though. I think the better design for vertical comics (is just to reduce their size and put them in the standard box. They otherwise take up too much space. [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 16:48, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

*I am not a fan of the discontinuity that comicbox creates as the explanation runs longer than the image. I also feel that we should focus on improving the existing {{tl|comic}} instead of further developing new templates. - [[User:Shine|Shine]] ([[User talk:Shine|talk]]) 21:38, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

== Template for New Comics ==

To clarify, I'm not talking about a template like {{tl|comic}} or {{tl|comicbox}}, but rather a form to cut/paste for new comics.  I'm rather new to large editing of MediaWiki pages, so I'm interested in learning of better ways of doing things.

Recently, I've been copy/pasting [[User:Blaisepascal/newcomictemplate]] to set up the basic form of the page, then editing the various sections.   This ensures I get the major bits.  I still have to copy/paste the transcript from xkcd.com, fill in the {{tl|comic}} template, and make the number and title redirects by hand.

Is there a better way?  Is there anything my template is missing? [[User:Blaisepascal|Blaisepascal]] ([[User talk:Blaisepascal|talk]]) 14:06, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

:I've created a ruby script that can be given a comic number and it will spit out a text file with the comic template filled out, the transcript, and the comic discussion template. I've finally gotten it to the point that it is usable, so that's why I'm talking about it. It still doesn't pull explanations from the blog, but that's a whole ball of wax in and of itself. I'm on Linux so it's easy to run it and have it spit out files, I assume on Windows if you have ruby installed there is a way to run ruby scripts from the command prompt. Can't tell you where things will pop out, probably in the directory you run it in, but I haven't tested it on Windows yet. I'm also continuing to work on it, so don't assume that any version you download is the final product. Oh, it also spits out the redirect line you put in the number and title pages so you can just copy/paste that.
:I made it because I was going to drive myself insane making hundreds of pages without some kind of automation. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 07:24, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

::{{tl|create}} was created as a template for the comic list so that it could be autoloaded into comics by linking from [[List of all comics]]. That functionality doesn't seem to be working, unfortunately. For that reason, I added a "transcript" of the create text as documentation on that template. If you goto {{tl|create}}, you will find a template for new comic creation. [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 20:20, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

== The name of the ponytail character ==

I remember the community having a name for the female ponytail character (I don't recall if there is a male ponytail character, but in the interest of being complete). Was it simply Ponytail?

In any case, she seems to recur enough to deserve her own Category:Comics featuring ... page. But I don't want to go create it without knowing what we can agree on is her name. So, pony (wow, didn't intend that pun) up your 2 cents. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 17:28, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

:This comic http://xkcd.com/322/ calls a ponytail'ed female Joanna. Is this the same character as ponytail? She might be different. Community input please. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 01:26, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
::It sounds plausible.  Few of the characters are named, and it looks like Ponytail (compare, for example, Elaine Roberts as an adult, who has light hair, but doesn't wear it in a ponytail).  The one concern is that in 322, she is clearly acquainted with Black Hat, and in 405 she appears to be friends with Danish, yet Black Hat and Danish don't know each other -- unless he tracked her down via Joanna...  [[User:Blaisepascal|Blaisepascal]] ([[User talk:Blaisepascal|talk]]) 04:41, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

== The name of Black Hat's girlfriend ==

[[Black Hat]] has a girlfriend, introduced in [[377: Journal 2]].  She has thicker hair than Megan, and is seen (in [[405: Journal 3]] to be friends with [[Ponytail]].  Is there community-accepted name for her?
:: No, not yet. She seems to have a personality similar to [[Black Hat]] himself --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 15:48, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
:::I don't really want to create a "Category:Comics featuring Black Hat's girlfriend" if there is a better solution, that's all. [[User:Blaisepascal|Blaisepascal]] ([[User talk:Blaisepascal|talk]]) 15:57, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
::::In my own head I've been calling her Summer because she looks like how Randall draws Summer Glau (not a good argument, granted), and in some of the comics she shows up she reminds me of Summer's characters. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 17:41, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
:::::Or we could call her Dearest or Darling or Danish http://xkcd.com/515/ [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 20:32, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
::::::OK, I've gone with [[Danish]]. [[User:Blaisepascal|Blaisepascal]] ([[User talk:Blaisepascal|talk]]) 22:18, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
:::::::P.S. I love you for that. You have my eternal respect. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 22:35, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Also, now someone needs to update the Characters nav box to include Danish. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 22:51, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
:I found the template on my own (aren't I a [[1032|grown up professional]]?) and updated it. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 22:53, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

== Can we turn off page creation for non-logged in users ==

I'm not very familiar with mediawiki, so I don't know if this would be hard or not. But, it would stop the drive-by spam attacks (the ones that don't create accounts anyway, such nice bots).

My secondary goal in doing this would be to get [[Special:Contributions/‎72.252.145.183|‎72.252.145.183]] and [[Special:Contributions/‎207.204.86.3|‎207.204.86.3]] to make accounts so that there is a way to get a hold of them, give them some feedback, and have them stop adding/spamming spurious categories. Both of them are creating pages with poor/non-existent explanations, sections for the transcript but missing the transcript, haphazardly adding pre-existing categories and adding tons of one-off categories which do nothing to enhance explain xkcd.

[[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 19:02, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
:Tag any such comics with {{[[Template:Comic-stub|Comic-stub]]}} and you or someone else can fix it ^^--[[User:Relic|Relic]] ([[User talk:Relic|talk]]) 00:01, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

::I guess you succeeded then ;) I have learned from my mistakes that I made as an anon ([[Special:Contributions/Btx40|take a look]])

::Why didn't you post on [[User talk:72.252.145.183]] or [[User talk:207.204.86.3]] (IPs have talk pages too)? I would have noticed it on either of them. It made me think that this community was more hostile than Wikipedia, which I also have [[wikipedia:User:Btx40|an account]] for --[[User:Btx40|Btx40]] ([[User talk:Btx40|talk]]) 21:14, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

== Tagline categories! ==

It finally struck me that there's that great line sitting top-right on the xkcd site. Yes the [[tagline]]. So, I've created pages for [[:Category:Language|Language]], [[:Category:Romance|Romance]], [[:Category:Math|Math]] already existed. But, I don't have time right now to go hunting down examples of [[:Category:Sarcasm|Sarcasm]]. Can I enlist the help of all the beautiful editors here to go tagging crazy? (Ok, not crazy like insane, but please do comb through everything for these) [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 19:47, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

== Image updates on xkcd ==

Once in a while, Randall changes the image of a particular comic (usually after someone here spotted an error!); for instance, that is the case for [http://xkcd.com/1122/ xkcd 1122 on Electoral Precedents].  It would be nice to still be able to see the original image(s) here as well as the updated version, as the discussion usually references the previous version(s) and therefore sometimes doesn't make sense without the original image in those cases.  Also, consider this as a mild suggestion to update the mentioned image on its explanation page.  Sorry if I've put this in the wrong place... --[[User:Jay|Jay]] ([[User talk:Jay|talk]]) 14:54, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

:For these most recent comics, someone usually uploads the version that goes public at midnight, and then corrections are uploaded on top of that. As part of the MediaWiki software, you can click on the image, which will take you to its file page, which allows you to see all the versions of the image back to its first creation. I, personally, am not sure if it's possible to link directly to a previous version, but it is there at least.

:Unfortunately, due to an image resizing bug, (that we all hope is being worked on, but it's been months with no progress and no word of work or progress, so hope is dwindling) for larger images you won't be able to see it, until you click on the broken file link which will just take you to the image.

:Hope that helps some. --[[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 16:35, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

== The Great Spam Attack Of Thanksgiving 2012 ==

I believe I have now dealt with all the spam that has accumulated on the wiki. I've gone through Recent Changes and personally checked every anonymous edit since 5 this morning, and looked through every new page created. If I've missed something, please edit the page and put {{tl|spam}} at the top. Thank you to all the new editors that stepped up and went to work in the trenches while the rest of us were off stuffing our faces. I think special thanks goes out to [[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] and [[User:TheOriginalSoni|TheOriginalSoni]]. I believe what happened is, the first major attack was met with a tepid response of about a month's temp block for all the IPs. But this time, for the flagrant vandalizers they are now on an indefinite ban.

Please, as you continue to notice spam or vandalization, use the {{tl|spam}} template, or add [[:Category:Pages to delete]] to the page (in the event that it's a newly created page). Leave a comment in your edit summary about vandalization clean up and someone with the power to, will deal with it.

--[[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]]<span title="I'm an admin. I can help.">_a</span> ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]])  06:38, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

:Marked a wee bit that you missed. Typical, I take a day-long trip into China and an unholy mess of spam happens. May I suggest captchas for all anonymous edits for now? I would also like to get all the explanations done, or at least the ones from the blog, so that we can get the /wiki/ out of the URL to throw some of the spammers. The wall-of-text spammers all seem to include links to spam on other poor abused wikis, and I've noticed that all of those wikis also have a /wiki/ somewhere in there URL. It probably won't stop the new anon spammer, but we could probably restrict page creation to registered users only once we're done filling in all the old XKCD pages to cull those twats out too. [[User:Davidy22|<span title="I want you."><u><font color="purple" size="2px">David</font><font color="green" size="3px">y</font></u><sup><font color="indigo" size="1px">22</font></sup></span>]][[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>(talk)</tt>]] 09:27, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

:I have again dealt with the second wave of spam this Thanksgiving holiday (in the U.S. It's the only thing I can think that would be the cause.) and protected a few pages that seem to be repeat targets. If this is any indication of what major US holidays are like we need to get the administration (*ahem* Jeff) to delegate more controls to more users, and more A.I. spam fighting than we currently have (none). There has to be tricks that Wikipedia is using to fight spam. If we get this much, I can't imagine what the wikipedia servers have to daily stand up against, they must have spam fighting tricks, and not just hordes of people that can delete new pages that anonymous spam bots create. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]]<span title="I'm an admin. I can help.">_a</span> ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]])  07:13, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

::Wikipedia has cluebot, which looks at page blanking and text insertion by anonymous users and reverts suspicious behavior automagically. I could ask cluebot's creator if we could lift the code for use here. It'll be like XERXES.ai, except it'll look for spam instead of spelling errors. [[User:Davidy22|<span title="I want you."><u><font color="purple" size="2px">David</font><font color="green" size="3px">y</font></u><sup><font color="indigo" size="1px">22</font></sup></span>]][[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>(talk)</tt>]] 07:16, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

::Aight, so Cluebot runs off a [https://github.com/cluenet/cluebotng core engine] with a dataset of previous vandalism to work from. We can set the files up on a raspberry pi or something, leave it running and connected to the web and feed it a backlog of past spam to teach it what to look for. Gonna do it after this hellish pile of work is over, unless someone wants to ninja me again. [[User:Davidy22|<span title="I want you."><u><font color="purple" size="2px">David</font><font color="green" size="3px">y</font></u><sup><font color="indigo" size="1px">22</font></sup></span>]][[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>(talk)</tt>]] 07:50, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

:::Cluebot sounds like a wonderful thing to have around here. When I have free time I might try to develop a basic bot that catches the basic kinds of spam and vandals we see here. (Spammers create a user account, create a random page and link to a random page on the internet; Vandals almost always leave an 18 character mixed lower/upper alphanumeric comment and are anonymous, that's unique enough it should be easily catchable)

==Trivia and transcript placement==
The placement of the trivia sections are not consistent on the wiki; sometimes they are placed above the transcript and sometimes below.

The trivia sections are often fun to read, and a good complement to the explanation. On the other hand I have a hard time imagining people coming here to read transcripts (I remember someone suggested collapsable boxes for them). I'm afraid trivia sections below the transcript "disappears" and sometimes won't be noticed at all (especially if the transcript is long). Therefore I propose that trivia sections should follow the explanation, and that the transcripts should be at the bottom of the page.

Another reason for this is that the dividing line between explanation and trivia is not always clear. The end of the explanations tend to accumulate trivia-like information. The natural thing is to just "crop off" a trivia section, where deemed appropriate, and not to move stuff to and fro around the block of transcript. –St.nerol (talk) 15:15, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

:I agree that trivia sections, if present, should come before the transcript. By the way, I think this thread would be more appropriate for the Coordination section of the community portal. If you agree, please move it there. Waldir (talk) 16:32, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
::Moved from Proposals to Coordination! –[[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 23:02, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

:If an explanation contains trivia, that's an issue with the trivia being in the wrong place. Trivia is supposed to contain information that's only tangentially relevant to the comic at hand, and should be kept to the end of the page to keep the rest of the page free of clutter. Also, the comic discussion is at the bottom of every explanation page, but that doesn't seem to have deterred anyone from finding in. We could fix up some kind of collapse box for the transcripts though, since they do tend to be unneeded for most comics. '''[[User:Davidy22|<u><font color="purple" title="I want you">David</font><font color="green" size="3px">y</font></u><font color="indigo" size="4px">²²</font>]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 00:16, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
:Alright, I've done a mockup for what the transcript collapse box could look like. It's in our sandbox, like?'''[[User:Davidy22|<u><font color="purple" title="I want you">David</font><font color="green" size="3px">y</font></u><font color="indigo" size="4px">²²</font>]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 01:16, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

::It looks good!
::I'm not sure it is so easy to differentiate between tangentially relevant, more relevant, and explanatory information.   I think there will always be a hazy zone of borderline examples. (By the way, should the explanation/trivia division be based on how ''relevant'' the information is, or on how ''explanatory'' it is?)
::Now that we're getting a collapsible box; where should we place it? I still don't think it is logical to have it between explanation and trivia (if present), but it will matter less. Maybe we should move it up to the top again? –[[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 10:24, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
:::Trivia in most wikis is reserved for all the junk that doesn't add value to the main purpose of the article. In our case, that would be information that doesn't serve to explain comics, which is what people who visit the site come here looking for. The transcript is useful for cases where an image is ambiguous or easily mistaken, although it's not entirely needed for every comic. If the trivia section ever contains anything that enhances the comic explanation more than the transcript does, it's in the wrong section.
:::The transcript template is probably going to have to get OK'ed by all the other editors round here before we make it a thing. It's quite a big change to make, and we'll have to change every existing page if we want to add it. We'd probably put it where we usually put the transcript if we do add it in though. '''[[User:Davidy22|<u>{{Color|purple|David}}<font color=green size=3px>y</font></u><font color=indigo size=4px>²²</font>]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 10:44, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
::::Yeah, I hope that the other guys turns up and says something too. Still, the trivia/transcript placement is not standardized, so we need to decide together what's more natural. 
::::*Do we want the transcript in a box?
::::*Do we want it on the bottom of the page, or directly below the explanation, or on the top of the page?

::::It ''is'' a borderland between explaining a comic and giving background information, connections to other comics, etc. There's no borderland between those and transcript. Also, all trivia sections I've seen so far has enhanced the explanations more than the transcript. (Probably because I didn't feel need to read it). –[[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 16:10, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

::::If one actually needs/wants to read the transcript, one presumably wants to compare it directly with how the comic looks. That would be the good reason to place the box close to the comic. –[[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 16:12, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

::::<strike>Sorry I dropped off the face of the planet for a while there. The run up to Spring Break nearly killed me (that's not as figurative as you'd think). I'll write a proper response in the morning, or late afternoon, after I've had enough sleep to recover from ~2 weeks of ~3 hours of sleep a night. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]]<span title="I'm an admin. I can help.">_a</span> ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 08:58, 9 March 2013 (UTC)</strike>

::::I think that Trivia belongs at the bottom of the page. We didn't start with putting transcripts on the explanation page, so there isn't a law passed down from the founders to let us know how to slaughter our sheep as sacrifice (wait, that's something else). However, in keeping with Wikipedia's tradition, we put tangentially related information into its own category at the bottom of the page.

::::What defines tangentially related? Well, most of our editors seem to have a good grasp on it, so I didn't think it was necessary to spell out hard and fast rules. I think the group of people that read xkcd frequently are also prone to become draconian, pedantic, rules lawyers, so I hesitate to suggest that we need to impose too much more structure than what we can glean from Wikipedia's many years of existence. This is how I categorize it:
::::*The explanation, which is the main point of the site, should explain all cultural, technological, mathematical, scientific, visual, and linguistic gags that Randall includes.
::::*The transcript, which helps to ensure that people aren't mis-reading the comic. This is also valuable for accessibility, as blind people cannot read images (not yet, OCR isn't that good), which is why I think Randall should publish transcript data as he posts the comics. So, I support the creation of a transcript when the comic first posts, but about a week later someone should go back and replace it with the transcript that Randall publishes so that anything we interpret incorrectly will be corrected.
::::*Discussion. Since we transclude the discussion onto the explanation page anything that comes up as a result of the comic will often be commented on here. E.g. "Did you guys see Reddit blew up after Randall called them out in this comic? [link]"
::::*And lastly trivia. My template test for this one is "Is this really important trivia, but it doesn't add one hoot to the explanation? Then it should go here."  What jumps to my mind every time I think of this is [[Click and Drag]]. That is a prime example of a trivia section. It doesn't explain the comic, but it is meta-information about the comic.

::::Why last? Because if the community cares about the points of trivia someone will bring it up. So that content already exists on the page. Duplicating that and putting it up higher makes no sense. What's even worse is having an Explanation, content directly about the comic; Trivia, an interlude with some information that's fun to know and you can stump people at xkcd meet-ups but otherwise useless; and Transcripts, which is directly about the comic again.

::::I would say that Trivia should actually go at the bottom of the page, but the transclusion of the discussion page makes that ugly to my eye. But it should go underneath the Transcript. Not all of the world are "fully functional" "Average" (capital 'A' Average) and "Normal" (capital 'N' Normal) humans, and consideration needs to be spent on them. And the transcript is more relevant information about the comic than any trivia is. If there is trivia that is more relevant than the transcript, it should be worked into the explanation. If a transcript gets long and you believe scrolling is a tedious, laborious task that only proto-humans had to deal with, then add a <code><nowiki>__TOC__</nowiki></code> (the TOC is ugly because of the comic discussion template, which is another discussion) underneath the comic template.

::::--[[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]]<span title="I'm an admin. I can help.">_a</span> ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 12:02, 14 March 2013 (UTC) 

:: I think the transcript could be integrated into [[template:comic]], instead of being a separate template, and use a softer and more neutral color (light gray, for example) in the heading. Apart from these details, I agree with the collapsing of the transcript, and being collapsed, its placement isn't really problematic. Right under the comic sounds ok to me. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 02:04, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

:::I think this would be a good option. If the transcript were in the comic template, such that it was comic image, title text, transcript, this would be a good option for screen readers, so that the explanation would be read after the transcript. I am quite in favor of this. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]]<span title="I'm an admin. I can help.">_a</span> ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 12:02, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
::::I made a couple of halfhearted attempts at doing that box integration, but it's not as easy as copypasting it into the right place. Will get it done when I'm less busy. '''[[User:Davidy22|<u>{{Color|purple|David}}<font color=green size=3px>y</font></u><font color=indigo size=4px>²²</font>]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 13:29, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

== Trivia section for the early comics? ==

I noticed that the early xkcd comics that were [[:Category:Posted on LiveJournal|posted on livejournal]] sometimes have no real explanation (since there is really nothing much to explain), but feature a separate trivia section that mentions the original order, an alternative title text and/or a quote by Randall. Number [[7]] is a good example for it. I was wondering if it were not more practical to integrate the trivia section into the explanation text. Of course, it is strictly speaking not an explanation of the comic's ''contents'', but other explanations give meta information about the comic as well. As somebody in the section above has already mentioned: It is a thin line. I think, a separate trivia section only makes sense when there is 1) a full explanation of the comic that would otherwise be cluttered and 2) the trivia section contains technical meta information that does not add to the understanding of the comic (see [[1110]] for example). I think it more to the point to remove the trivia sections for the early comics altogether, but I thought I ask before anybody has to revert everything ;) -- [[User:LotharW|LotharW]] ([[User talk:LotharW|talk]]) 12:40, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
:That's still trivia that should probably stay in the trivia section, although the explanations for those comics do need work. Even if it's just to inform that reader that the earlier xkcd comics were more doodle-y than modern xkcd. '''[[User:Davidy22|<u>{{Color|#707|David}}<font color=#070 size=3>y</font></u><font color=#508 size=4>²²</font>]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 22:53, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

== To all Admins: IP User pages ==

Since IP addresses are often dynamic the IP user pages should stay empty. If a user wants a user page he just can sign in here and there is no problem with links to former IP posts. Editing IP user pages produce just chaos.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 17:44, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
:You're assuming that because some IP addresses are dynamic, we should bar IPs from creating userpages. For one, that's not true and [[User:50.151.2.168]] has been editing from the same address for a good half year. We cannot force IPs to do anything; see {{w|WP:HUMAN}}. IPs necessarily forfeit admin candidacy and the ability to edit semi-protected pages because of security concerns, but that's the extent of their restrictions on this wiki. {{w|User:76.117.247.55}} is a rather good example of an established IP with his own userpage on mainline Wikipedia. Also, {{w|WP:PAPER}} can likely be applied here; the disk space that a single redirect page takes up is insignificant, and mediawiki is designed to still perform well with many pages in it's database. '''[[User:Davidy22|<u>{{Color|#707|David}}<font color=#070 size=3>y</font></u><font color=#508 size=4>²²</font>]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 18:15, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
::I did know you would do an answer like this. But I still fully disagree on this, an IP user is still dynamic and if those users don't like to sign in here they should not have user privileges.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 16:58, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
:::The only answer I have to that is {{w|WP:HUMAN}}. Our IP users are just as valuable as our registered ones, and they are privy to all benefits that regular users receive except ones that could become problematic with shared IP addresses, like admin candidacy/privileges. That IP has edited from their address for longer than many registered users stay active. IPs are human too. '''[[User:Davidy22|<u>{{Color|#707|David}}<font color=#070 size=3>y</font></u><font color=#508 size=4>²²</font>]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 19:22, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
:::: As someone who prefers not using an account here, I fully agree with David. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.62.222|173.245.62.222]] 08:17, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

== "Its Cause Your Dumb" ==

I'm interested in moving away from this tagline.  Originally it made sense in our old blog logo in which it was Black Hat saying it, but now out of context it sounds way more condescending.  I know people like it, but I don't think it is necessary to sit on the top of every page. --[[User:Jeff|<b><font color="orange">Jeff</font></b>]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 16:38, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
:Adding the thumbnail of Black Hat back in would be trivial. We can either add it back in, or cut/change it entirely. I'm fine either way, though I did enjoy the old tagline. '''[[User:Davidy22|<u>{{Color|#707|David}}<font color=#070 size=3>y</font></u><font color=#508 size=4>²²</font>]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 19:54, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
::''Explain xkcd: It's 'cause you're dumb.'' is still great. Black Hat is just telling the truth. But this and the "explainxkcd.com/X" should be moved to the bottom of the header.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 20:29, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
::: I'd like to see Black Hat saying it, but  maybe at the bottom of the logo instead. [[User:Halfhat|Halfhat]] ([[User talk:Halfhat|talk]]) 20:40, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Now the black hat image is rather blurry.

== Transcript Section ==

I've not been able to find any real sort of guideline which says what we do and do not include in the Transcript. From the explanation for [[Talk:1322:_Winter|Strip 1322: Winter]], how much "action" should we be notating in the Transcript. There comes a point when the Transcript becomes a Script and can be used to reenact the strip. If this was the original intention, then perhaps we should state that somewhere. I suggest any text, in English or otherwise should be included either verbatim or described, and other symbols which are not directly related to the actors, such as music notes, charts, graphs, and other objects which significantly affect the plot of the strip. Obviously some good judgement should be exercised and there may be exceptions which crop up. I'd like to hear other comments and views, thanks. [[User:Jarod997|Jarod997]] ([[User talk:Jarod997|talk]]) 14:00, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
:The transcript should be detailed enough that a blind user can tell what happened in the comic. It's there to tell people what happened in the comic image if they were otherwise unable to tell without the transcript. '''[[User:Davidy22|<u>{{Color|#707|David}}<font color=#070 size=3>y</font></u><font color=#508 size=4>²²</font>]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 16:35, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
::Aha! Thanks for clearing that up. Is that posted anywhere? [[User:Jarod997|Jarod997]] ([[User talk:Jarod997|talk]]) 21:05, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
:::It‘s somewhere in the old discussion where the standard page layout was determined. If you dig through old community portal topics, you‘ll probably find it. Eventually. '''[[User:Davidy22|<u>{{Color|#707|David}}<font color=#070 size=3>y</font></u><font color=#508 size=4>²²</font>]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 06:35, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

== We need a name for the "Total Douchebag" ==

I did say it [[http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/explain_xkcd:Community_portal/Proposals#New_Character_2 here]] but I think it was the wrong section and I got no responces any way he appears in and [[http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/435:_Purity 435]], [[http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/796:_Bad_Ex 796]], [[http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/826:_Guest_Week:_Zach_Weiner_(SMBC) 826 (guest week)]] and [[http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/964:_Dorm_Poster 964]] possibly more. I got a good pic of him too.[[User:Halfhat|Halfhat]] ([[User talk:Halfhat|talk]]) 19:35, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
:Something smug sounding like Beyond Hat would be good.[[User:Halfhat|Halfhat]] ([[User talk:Halfhat|talk]]) 19:41, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
::If he shows up in another comic, I'll start a vote to add him. The name "douchebag" has been contested and changed in the past by various anons for justified reasons and I'm sure there's less judgmental names that we could give him, like Goatee. '''[[User:Davidy22|<u>{{Color|#707|David}}<font color=#070 size=3>y</font></u><font color=#508 size=4>²²</font>]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 22:44, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

== Undocumented Feature ==

Why is the daily incomplete explanation ''still'' [[1305: Undocumented Feature]]? At this point, the explanation is complete, and it's been the daily incomplete for several days, if not weeks. [[User:Z|Z]] ([[User talk:Z|talk]]) 18:52, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
:Oh, damn, I've been a bit busy recently. I'll get that started again. '''[[User:Davidy22|<u>{{Color|#707|David}}<font color=#070 size=3>y</font></u><font color=#508 size=4>²²</font>]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 20:20, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

== Should we have a category for comics with secret messages? ==

Should we have a category for comics with secret messages? Like [[1005: SOPA]]. [[User:Ausr|Ausr]] ([[User talk:Ausr|talk]]) 16:32, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
:How many of them are there? Categories need to apply to a decent number of comics before we make them. '''[[User:Davidy22|<u>{{Color|#707|David}}<font color=#070 size=3>y</font></u><font color=#508 size=4>²²</font>]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 22:36, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

== Incomplete explanation of the day - Template changed? ==

Has the template of the "incomplete explanation of the day" box changed?

I'm sure the title of the incomplete page used to be a link, but now it appears in bold, and not a link... {{unsigned|Pudder}}
:It'll look like that if you're on the page that it links to, or if mediawiki messes up. '''[[User:Davidy22|<u>{{Color|#707|David}}<font color=#070 size=3>y</font></u><font color=#508 size=4>²²</font>]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 16:42, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

== Incomplete Explanation of the Day needs updating ==

For the last few days, the IED has been set to 887: Future Timeline, when the page has already been set to complete. Is there a specific person in charge of IED, or could I just go ahead and change it whenever I see that the page has been completed?
I'm not entirely sure if this is the correct section of the Community Portal for this question, but I would like to know. [[User:Kirdneh|Kirdneh]] ([[User talk:Kirdneh|talk]]) 18:05, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
:Uh, I do the changing there. I don't do this usually, but I actually think the tag should be readded; the original reason if I recall correctly for the tag being there was that the big ol' table of predictions listed in the comic wasn't complete, and the roots for each one aren't obvious to everyone reading; see the one on 32 bit timestamps, which means little to people unfamiliar with Unix timestamps. '''[[User:Davidy22|<u>{{Color|#707|David}}<font color=#070 size=3>y</font></u><font color=#508 size=4>²²</font>]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 21:28, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

== Requesting a Third Opinon on 1317: Theft ==

There are two competing interpretations of [[1317: Theft]] (see the end of the discussion for details), leading to its being marked incomplete.  Could some other editors take a look? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.191|108.162.216.191]] 14:15, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
: Two unresolved questions.  First, is the character in the comic Randall or Hairy?  Second, is the character show the victim of identity theft or the perpetrator? [[User:Djbrasier|Djbrasier]] ([[User talk:Djbrasier|talk]]) 18:51, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

== Most character pages are missing infoboxes ==

Please add them if possible. There are two types of character infoboxes currently, "character infobox" for when the category page is "Comics featuring '''''Name'''''"; while "character infobox 2" is for when the character page serves as its own category page. {{unsigned|17jiangz1}}

== Lander ==
Philae has woken up!!! Randal has updated [[1446: Landing]] as a result. I'm about to go out, but can someone please start recording any new comics! --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 15:11, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
:I'm on it'''[[User:Davidy22|<u>{{Color|#707|David}}<font color=#070 size=3>y</font></u><font color=#508 size=4>²²</font>]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 11:05, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

== Image issues ==

Can someone fix [[:File:radiation.png]]? {{User:17jiangz1/signature|15:54, 25 August 2015}}
:Wait a little bit, cache takes time to update. '''[[User:Davidy22|<u>{{Color|#707|David}}<font color=#070 size=3>y</font></u><font color=#508 size=4>²²</font>]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 16:58, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
:Thanks, it's okay now. {{User:17jiangz1/signature|10:20, 26 August 2015}}

== New comic, not on the main site. ==

http://www.gatesnotes.com/Health/XKCD-Marks-the-Spot It's about Polio eradication [[User:Halfhat|Halfhat]] ([[User talk:Halfhat|talk]]) 13:45, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
:The page already exists, at [[World Polio Day]]. Not a fan of doing these supplemental comics personally, but the page is there for you to improve if you want to. '''[[User:Davidy22|<u>{{Color|#707|David}}<font color=#070 size=3>y</font></u><font color=#508 size=4>²²</font>]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 17:19, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

== Manually added 1678 ==

Hello, I manually added comic 1678, since the bot didn't seem to. I think I did everything, but since I'm not familiar with the process someone might want to double-check. [[User:SG 01|SG 01]] ([[User talk:SG 01|talk]]) 15:21, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

== Title text in transcript ==

Not sure if this has been asked before, but why don't we include the title text in the transcript? -misterblue28

:Probably because the transcript is for people who can't see the image, but the title text isn't part of the image - it's in plain text underneath the image. [[User:Danish|Danish]] ([[User talk:Danish|talk]]) 23:07, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

== Category syntax ==

How do you put pages in a category? I tried inserting links manually and it said "this category has no pages or media." [[User:Some user|Some user]] ([[User talk:Some user|talk]]) 04:06, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

:Hi Some user, it's a little backwards, but to add a page to a category, you have to instead ''add the category to the page''.  In other words, for the page that you want to be included in the category, edit that page and add a <code><nowiki>[[Category:Example Category]]</nowiki></code> link to the bottom of the page (where <code>Example Category</code> is the name of the desired category); after you save it, the page will magically appear in the category.  See [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Categories#Adding_a_page_to_a_category here] for more info.  – [[User:Yfmcpxpj|Yfmcpxpj]] ([[User talk:Yfmcpxpj|talk]]) 02:42, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

== 2475: Health Drink ==
I believe that the "simple country nanoenzyme developer" comment refers to the [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SimpleCountryLawyer Simple Country Lawyer trope]. [[User:Elizium23|Elizium23]] ([[User talk:Elizium23|talk]]) 19:32, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

== Citation no longer needed? ==
It seems like the inclusion of the {{Citation needed}} tag is getting less popular. Should these be removed or should they be allowed? [[User:Cwallenpoole|Cwallenpoole]] ([[User talk:Cwallenpoole|talk]]) 14:56, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
:{{Citation needed}}... Less popular? I've just seen a retro-edit that added three (or four) CNs in a very old article. I don't think it has lost its popularity. It could be argued that it has lost its clarity (but only through overuse). I see no need to purge this feature, though of course anybody could hunt down and purge those instances they considered to be in excess (YMMV!) and anybody else could splurge them out again (with personal opinions again being the driving force).
:If you are indicating a personal opinion that CNs should ''not'' be being used, anywhere, say it straight. I think you'd be outvoted on the issue, but it would be more useful than just proclaiming it isn't used (clearly wrong).
:Overuse is bad, removing it isn't practical or desirable (you'd be reverted in an instant). Welcome to the complications of collaborative editing from a diverse group of fans. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.125|162.158.159.125]] 15:45, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
:: oh, I find it absolutely hilarious, but I have also seen people removing them. I just want to make sure it's still OK to add them. [[User:Cwallenpoole|Cwallenpoole]] ([[User talk:Cwallenpoole|talk]]) 16:56, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
:::Some people have less tolerance for them, definitely. If "The sky is blue**, water is wet**, fire is hot** and cats meow**" is marked up in each (or most) of the **-points then I would not be surprised or disappointed to see that de-CNed. If you ask me, the balance would be once used for every two or three articles (and in the ''best'' one of those two or three, nothing actually contentious or even not-always-true like the blue sky statement, but of course they could bunch up at times by looking wider around for each set of 'best's), but don't ask me to judge the best examples. And that's still an awful lot of total uses! Others would have differing thresholds/tolerances. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.22|172.70.86.22]] 20:03, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

== New admins ==

Been skimming around edit histories to see what I've missed and now I have candidates in mind for promotion to admin. I've linked a bureaucrat to this section who can promote any of the following who consent to promotion:

*[[User:Jacky720]]: Contribution log going back to 2016, heavy contributor in recent anti-vandalism effort
*[[User:Theusaf]]: Creator of the current comic update bot
*[[User:Kynde]]: Editor for a decade, although may want to stay regular user
'''[[User:Davidy22|<u>{{Color|#707|David}}<font color=#070 size=3>y</font></u><font color=#508 size=4>²²</font>]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 02:06, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
:I consent. I'm not super active, but I visit explainxkcd multiple times a week and maintain the bot. —[[User:Theusaf|theusaf]] ([[User talk:Theusaf|talk]]) 07:29, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
:: done [[User:Theusaf|theusaf]] [[User:Jeff|<b><font color="orange">Jeff</font></b>]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 19:02, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
: I want to be clear that with the exception of the anti-vandalism script (which I did not write) I haven't been very active lately. Maybe I just find a lot of pages in an already-acceptable state. Still, I'm reading the wiki. So if the requirement is only ''presence'' and ''judgement'' rather than ''activity'', I'll take the post. Is it? [[User:Jacky720|That's right, Jacky720 just signed this]] ([[User talk:Jacky720|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jacky720|contribs]]) 11:25, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
::I sought out a fair number of people so that the load would be more distributed. The duties that adminship adds are just things like banning users and protecting pages, regular users can already fix content related things and vandalism. '''[[User:Davidy22|<u>{{Color|#707|David}}<font color=#070 size=3>y</font></u><font color=#508 size=4>²²</font>]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 13:41, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
::: Slow as hell, but i did it. [[User:Jacky720]] and [[User:Kynde]]  [[User:Jeff|<b><font color="orange">Jeff</font></b>]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 17:36, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
::::Thanks Jeff. [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:56, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

I will accept being an admin. But I would like to know how to get hold of for instance Davidy or Jeff, so we can contact someone with more knowledge or power over this site, when it breaks down or is attacked again. Any way this can be arranged? And then I would also like to know what being an admin means here. Which powers do we get? I have not tried being an admin of anything before ;-) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:13, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
:I've always contacted jeff via twitter, which is linked via his userpage, though we've been in contact over email too. I don't use my twitter account for anything else otherwise, and I'm mostly dead on a lot of social media but I have the same username on github and I do use that site a fair bit if you want to contact me via alternate means. [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Special:ListGroupRights You can see the full set of rights each role has here], but the ones that'll come up the most are probably the rollback button, bans and page protection/deletion. '''[[User:Davidy22|<u>{{Color|#707|David}}<font color=#070 size=3>y</font></u><font color=#508 size=4>²²</font>]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 13:41, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

== One-click undo script for reverting vandalism ==

I've made an extremely crude script to expedite vandalism removal at [[User:CRLF/OneClickUndo.js]]; basically, it changes all "undo" links to work without the confirmation screen. Simple as that and hopefully helpful for cleaning up this mess!

I'm hoping to also make something that can work on contribs pages, but my scripting skills aren't that great. 

Also, if you are aware of any scripts that do this better (I hope there are), please share them here. [[User:CRLF|CRLF]] ([[User talk:CRLF|talk]]) 02:20, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
:Update: I have added the functionality to have this on contribution pages; it should create a link "[revert]" next to each page name that allows you to similarly revert in one click. There is one known glitch though, that it doesn't really work if a user has edited the same page multiple times, so to alleviate that I recommend ticking the "Only show edits that are latest revisions" box on the contribs list. I hope this tool will be helpful in combating future vandalism.
:I almost forgot to mention, the way you install this script is by adding the following text to the bottom of [[Special:MyPage/common.js]] (sorry, only for autoconfirmed users):
:<code><nowiki>mw.loader.load('//www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=User:CRLF/OneClickUndo.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript'); // [[User:CRLF/OneClickUndo.js]]</nowiki></code>
:Hope this helps! [[User:CRLF|CRLF]] ([[User talk:CRLF|talk]]) 03:04, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

== Semi-persistant gambling portal ads being attempted... ==

There have been a number of link-insertions made over the last few weeks (some returning to where they'e previously reverted out), seemingly of various groups of sites under the name "<two letters>+portmanteau('''C A S I''' n o & s i '''M I L E''')", here written slightly obtusely to diffuse giving them any of the SEO credit they seek, but anyone interested should be able to get enough of the gist to then find examples of their spamming.  Usually the two letters are for '''AU'''stralia or '''N'''ew '''J'''ersey, but I think there have been others.

A quick search seems not to give any 'core' business name precursor to the state/country regionalisation part, they seem to have just gone straight to the localised domains. And searching for them indicates they're popping up in many an odd place 'out there'. Like a site reviewing walking(/zimmer?)-frames, or (strangely, as it's the AU-branded site) "looking for developers in the Chicago area", so they're poking away out there. But we're just as busily poking them back out again by reverting, both myself and (I've noted) other major contributors/maintainers.

But making an official(ish) note. If anybody gets an automated content de-publishing mechanism up (e.g. for the C R A P style of stuff) then maybe they can figure out this one enough to also counter its reappearance.

As a direct example, dive into what occured to cause [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=850:_World_According_to_Americans&curid=6034&diff=286767&oldid=286591 this pairing of edit/undo-edit]... (Easy enough to check, by clicking things, but I'm not giving an easily search-spiderable link that promotes their site like they might want!) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.32|141.101.99.32]] 14:50, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
:Unlike the SEO spam that gets stopped normally, I suspect this is a human solving captchas to insert links, so automated measures would have to be cat and mouse blacklisting link insertions probably, if we got an auto reverter bot up. '''[[User:Davidy22|<u>{{Color|#707|David}}<font color=#070 size=3>y</font></u><font color=#508 size=4>²²</font>]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 02:48, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

== Transcript standards ==

I was just wondering, what is our policy on formatting in transcripts? Tables, text size, color, italics, etc. [[User:Char Latte49|Char Latte]] ([[User talk:Char Latte49|talk]]) 23:35, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
:The idea is no tables, IIRC, though I know of exceptions that do use them. Other in-situ formatting should be allowable but (if important) actually stated in the :[Description] tags, or somehow.
:One of the ideas is that a screen-reader should be able to reliably inform someone of what they might not be able to see. And, depending upon the reader can probably read "½" accurately, may be able to read "1/2" at least in an understandable manner, could perhaps handle "<sup>1</sup>/<sub>2</sub>" without (much) more confusing, yet may find something like "<table style="display: inline-table; line-height: 0.6em; vertical-align: middle; font-size:7pt; text-size-adjust: none;"><tr><td><u>1</u></td></tr><tr><td>2</td></tr></table>" (<code><nowiki><table style="display: inline-table; line-height: 0.6em; vertical-align: middle; font-size:7pt; text-size-adjust: none;"><tr><td><u>1</u></td></tr><tr><td>2</td></tr></table></nowiki></code>) makes for something of no real sense to the reader or the listener to the reader or both.
:Secondary is that maybe a search for "red text" should reveal all comics with red text (not easy to do on digging ingo HTML style formatting alone), though I'm sure that the relevent transcripts are so standardised.
:Not the expert on the issue, just how I've seen it posited elsewhere (but inconsistently, at that). [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.225|172.70.85.225]] 00:47, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

== What is [[:Category:Meta]] for? ==

I've stumbled upon [[:Category:Meta]], and it seemed so random. Three of the 4 books were on it, but I removed them because there already is a category for Randall's books. There are also pages like Browser extension, Characters, the Countdown in header text... what do all those pages have in common? (The category description doesn't help.). [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 10:49, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

== 2765 has been completed, you can change the "incomplete explanation" thing now ==

Maybe change it now?

== What's going on with the incomplete comics? ==

I've noticed a the number dropping rapidly, and I'm worried people/someone is just removing incomplete tags randomly from pages. If not, it's great that these are getting done, but I remember some very large/complicated comics that couldn't just be finished quickly. The edit history is pretty spammy, it's hard to find the source. [[User:Mushrooms|Mushrooms]] ([[User talk:Mushrooms|talk]]) 08:49, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
:People ''have'' been removing the Incomplete tags from pages. Not so much "randomly" as actually removing them from some of the latest few. Even going so far as to remove such a tag from an article not yet a day old. (Really too soon, IMO. There are always going to be people who take ''at least'' a day to check in to discover the latest comic's item, and then produce some personal take on it that makes what was there "not yet complete" to reasonable eyes.)
:The whole Incompleteness thing has developed, anyway. Originally, it was even a matter of whether a page ''existed'' for a comic (catching up/backfilling with earlier-than-the-wiki comics) until at least placeholders/blank explanations for them all were created by users and Bots. Then "incomplete" was a tag used to identify the created comics that hadn't been properly filled in with intelligent (or sufficient) explanations.
:Even that era is now over, as it is rare that someone doesn't rock up with an explanation for a new comic within an hour or so of it being editable. The Incomplete tag has co-evolved as a community side-joke as to what (other than a Bot) created this particular page. Which some people seem not to have realised as they (in good faith, no doubt) de-Incomplete a number of recent pages at a time.
:Not that I think one should never remove the tags, but my opinion is:
:*If someone has just edited (more?) info into a page, they shouldn't have the hubris to consider it now complete thanks to their own 'final' work, let someone else have that say; assuming they don't have more to say (or a revert/back-edit/correction of their own), having their own ideas of how 'complete' it became,
:*If the comic is less than a week old, many people may have been familiar with (and happy with) the thorough explanation... but that occasional guy or gal who only checks in every Wednesday/weekend/whenever, when they have time to browse all their favourite webcomic metasites, ''could'' bring along an insight that everyone else missed - technically, they could do this (and do?) for even more ancient examples that they've yet to notice, but "giving the 'regulars' (<= those that are not also ''hyper''frequent) a week or so" a shot at working on an Incomplete page seems like courtesy,
:*As the developed joke is that an early editor adds the 'community comment' about which non-BOT entity/process created the page, give everyone familiar with this the chance to ''have seen'' each prime example, this includes the once-a-week individual(s), from the above point, even if they have nothing new to add,
:**...as a meta to this, generally one of the first editors to discover the BOTted page (or maybe the one that did the temporarily tardy BOT's work!) will make their mark on it by so editing (I personally consider it poor form to ''only'' "first!" a page by editing this tag and then doing nothing more to fill in even just the Transcript, BTW, but YMMV). Obviously, not all such spontaneous jokes are top-notch funny (to all people), but one need not go in later and 'rejoke it' just for one's own ego (at least as much as the "first!"er type). It loses its cultural impact if (as per one recent page) it becomes a competition to keep on changing the tag indefinitely. Respect the joke that you may find there (spelling/formatting errors aside?), enjoy it, feel smug that you "would have done it better" (more smug than actually doing it, only for your "better" to be in turn bested/wiped by someone else soon after). There are some very clever BOT-replacements that have been done (I've tried a few, myself, but can't/won't claim to be the genius editor of any of the good ones) and I have an offline list of many of these, but that's perhaps a little ''too'' meta for explainxkcd...
:*Finally, the editors who go through 'wiping' a series of Incompletes at a time (even as recent as with the present day's released comic) tend to show willing and eager wiki-editing capabilities, but are clearly 'new' to not realise the value (beyond the original intention) placed upon the tag. The kind of people who might not yet realise that the Citation Needed has an explainxkcd 'twist' to it (or, having realised the twist, think that they're the first person to consider how funny it would be to use that tag ''at least twice a paragraph, or even multiple times in a single sentence...''. I welcome fresh editors, but I know what some of them feel. I remember being annoying to the 'old guard' on a BBS during pre-Web era... even back then, the best advice really was to lurk, observe, contribute sparingly... even now, in fact, I still tend to be oververbose, but at least I don't overdo the same thing (addition or removal of things) to ridiculuous degrees like I did practically a third of a century ago.
:...not that I expect the above to match everyone's feelings (even a majority?), nor to claim authority (far from it, I like being an occasional commentator without the pressures of responsibility). And anyone who ''might'' benefit from this exposition is unlikely to read it (soon) anyway!
:But I can definitely provide my insight on the original question (yes, they're being removed, not ''really'' randomly). And, if there's anything particularly likely to draw my attention to there being '[[386: Duty Calls|something wrong]] on a somewhat historic xkcd explanation' then it's someone removing the Incomplete tag and getting me to read it "for old times' sake" (to find obvious typos, grammatical mixups, broken links or just plain awkward/missing elements). Occasionally, I'll even restore the Incomplete tag because, whatever subsequent fix I might or might not do myself, it's not my call to say that it's "perfect".
:Though obviously edits can (and do) still occur with-or-without. Which leads back to my valuing the tags as these days more cultural than a strict tally of completeness/lack-of-it.  There's no reason why they shouldn't be removed, but generally not a batch at a time. Barring long and still not fully resolved 'megacomics'/interactives, perhaps around a fortnight or a month before (at the rough rate of three a week, to match the new comics gaining the tags) might be sufficient and not excessive. Leaving on the order of 5-10 'recent' Incompletes, plus any hangovers that are still potentially expandable (Gravity-like, or Umwelt).
:Can't stop the eager editors who have much more slimline ideas, and could displease those who think the meta-joke trumps the actual Incompleteness marking and should hang around indefinitely, but this is my own broadly happy middle-ground. Not that anyone asked. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.43.181|172.69.43.181]] 15:14, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

::I apologize if this goes off-topic, but I recently made an early BOT replacement "joke" that was unnecessarily crudely worded and I just want to say I wish I hadn't done that. If I'm in a rush to add the first draft of a transcript, basic category details or alike, and want to act quick to avoid potential edit conflicts, from now on I'll let the BOT field be untouched if I can't spontaneously think of anything worthwhile to type there. [[User:Asdf|Asdf]] ([[User talk:Asdf|talk]]) 13:18, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
:::Something that's funny at two o'clock in the morning (but not even necessarily then, nor need it require alcohol/sugar/etc) is often not quite so much after some thought. But sometimes it ''is'', so we can't blame you for having a go. ;) I suppose I'd say that if it hasn't already been squished by a more savvy future editor, you should just take the first opportunity to improve (or roll-back) your not so good ideas, once you're in a more objective/critical mindset.
:::On-topic, one also shouldn't "decide to de-Incomplete comics" without much thought. And if you're doing several at the same time you should at least have been monitoring them; not just choose one to remove it from, then click "Next/Previous" and wipe that one off, rinse-and-repeat. If I see multiple removals in the Recent history then I'm inclined to believe it's an ideological act, not from any considered review. If you really want to, save up the 'next' one for the day after (at least make it look like you slept on it), etc, and you're still capable of expunging seven of them a week, as opposed to the usual generation of them at three per week. You can still 'win', without looking like a total jobsworth. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.28|172.70.90.28]] 16:28, 14 January 2024 (UTC)