explain xkcd:Community portal/Proposals

Explain xkcd: It's 'cause you're dumb.
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<noinclude>{{Community portal}}</noinclude>
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I have been a loyal, happy customer of Rimuhosting for a relaly long time -- maybe even from the first year (2001?), in NY and Dallas. I still am  I think you handled everything so well -- especially communicating with your customers over so many channels with real information instead of some standard corporate talk -- I appreciate that. I have always appreciated the amazing level of personal customer care you provide. The power outage event relaly shows what your company/our hosting company is made of, and I am still a happy loyal customer. I don't know how I would deal with (my) customers (eek!) but actually I think your responses are a good model, and I hope that my future customers (for one site newly re-launched and another one soon) will be understanding too!Some things moving forward that would be helpful:1. How do I know or check some services are running ok, even if they are back up? For example, if mysql and postgres just restarts, is it ok or do I have to check further?2. I run/help with 4 servers on Rimuhosting. How do we make things more robust without spending a lot of money on duplicating service around the world?  For example your temporary page -- it would be good for any site to have a fallback in case the main server is not up. -- a howto on throwing a couple switches and creating a temporary host site would be good (like change your DNS setting and post the page on the temp site). 3. I am not so confident of the Dallas facility as I am of Rimuhosting...maybe have a second basket for all your eggs?Thank you Peter, Carl, Glenn, Liz, Elton, Felicisimo and everyone!All the Best,Daniel
 
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== Spampage Rampage ==
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Hail fellow admins, Jeff, distinguished editors all,
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We've just been through a second spike of spam, (the first being around the 1110 Click and Drag comic) so as your friendly Angel of Death to such spammery, I'd like to open the floor to discussion on strategies to deal with the issue.
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Personally, I don't mind the role of grim reaper for these miscreants, but I'd also prefer that it doesn't grow in magnitude; of late, I find myself almost exclusively dealing with the matter, leaving little enough time to enjoy the site, let alone contributing to it.  Anything we can do to keep things under control would be appreciated.
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So far, the spam comes in these flavors:
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* One-timers.  New users that create their own user page, oddly alike (couldn't be a spam-bot, eh?) always linking to "their" website.  By far the biggest percentage of time the scythe falls, it falls on these.
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** Two-timers.  A variant of above, except they create one or two additional pages, typically the user's talk page, or a page same as the username, but not in the user namespace.  Here too, quickly dispatched across the Styx.
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* IPersonators: IP users that create faux user (and other) pages.  Second largest group, though this trend has been growing, especially during this recent onslaught.
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** A particularly insidious variant: IPersonators creating or modifying a real users' page.  I've been pretty careful, so far, to track down the author, and block ''them'' (as opposed to assuming  author = user) but I can see how this flavor of spam risks accidental blocking of legit contributors, which would be doubleplusungood.
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* Jibberish vandal:  Somebody creating content that isn't spam, but just repeated ''asdf'' or ''ghjkl'' content.  Treated as above, though I don't call this spam in the logs.  My guess is that this is a spam-bot under development.  Fairly infrequent, and addressed using techniques as for above.
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There are a few other one-off types, too, which I won't bother elaborating here.
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So, the open-ended question stands: What do we do?
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# There has been a suggestion to block IP-only contributors (ie must log in) ... perhaps only on an as-needed basis.
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# Another thought would be to (by some as-yet unspecified means) prevent the creation, or cause the timely deletion, of user pages by other than said user.)
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# Restricting external links (by a similarly as-yet-unspecified means) either to a specified approved white-list, or by a specified set of contributors (must have made more than n edits, for example.)
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# Other thoughts?  Let the discussion unfold...
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No solution is likely to be perfect; this is a matter of raising the bar to where whatever processed meat can crest over it can be most easily managed... all without being so draconian that we compromise the appeal of the site.
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All said, I have no problems with the grim reaper enterprise, but would like to spend more time in the [[User:IronyChef/TestKitchen|kitchen]], and less in the [[Special:Log/block|dumpster]].
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A little postscript to put the issue into perspective: the ''top four contributors'', (as per Active Users as I write this) are as follows:
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* Lcarsos [169 edits in the last 30 days]
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* Davidy22 [282 edits in the last 30 days]
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* Bpothier [298 edits in the last 30 days]
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* IronyChef [433 edits in the last 30 days]
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I can tell you that of my four-hundred plus edits, only about a dozen have not been spam related.  Lcarsos and Davidy22 are two ace spam-seeking deputies, so a large part of their edits involve tagging pages with the spam template, not (as I'm sure they'd prefer) actually chiming in on matters xkcd.  The rest of the field: not even close in terms of edit magnitude. -- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 15:30, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
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:I was going to suggest a range block, but the IP addresses com from everywhere. The only pattern I can see is in the 83.<25 range. We could also change the captcha to cut into the bots for a little while. Another suggestion would be to create every explanation page, then mark the unfinished ones with the <nowiki>{{stub}}</nowiki> template, if that exists in this wiki. Then we can block anonymous page creation without having to worry about stopping anonymous users from creating new explanations. We'll have to make a few modifications to the site, to instruct users on how to find pages in need of explanations, but it'll kill all the userpage and self-help spambots. We can figure out how to deal with vandalism later - I would recommend implementing wikipedia's cluebot to automagically roll back page clearing and the like. [[User:Davidy22|Davidy22]] ([[User talk:Davidy22|talk]]) 23:16, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
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:Also, we can semi-protect important pages like categories and templates. Chances are, anonymous users aren't familiar enough with wikis to be handling those anyways, and wiki veteran anonymous users will probably make an account. [[User:Davidy22|Davidy22]] ([[User talk:Davidy22|talk]]) 09:30, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
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... ''Madame la Guillotine'' has been busy, dealing with no less than four dozen spammified pages and their attendant contributors in the last hour, to address a third spike in spam.  Our hyper-contributing editors have been helping identify these malefactors, so the process has been fairly straight-forward on my part, but it's awfully quiet here....
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The top five contributors, as of this writing, are:
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* Divad27182 [133 edits in the last 30 days]
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* Davidy22 [202 edits in the last 30 days]
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* Lcarsos [207 edits in the last 30 days]
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* Bpothier [267 edits in the last 30 days]
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* IronyChef [537 edits in the last 30 days]
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Number six is comes in at less than half of Divad's, and the curve decays precipitiously from there... so this is becoming a call to arms for admins to convene and discuss, ''or'' Jeff to anoint other, more active contributors, admin status.
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Thoughts?
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-- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 06:02, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
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:Would it be possible to volunteer to be another admin to move some of the load off of IronyChef? It feels slightly cruel and unusual for him to be the only active admin, and thus ad-hoc in charge of keeping the engines running. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 06:16, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
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::Another admin is definitely needed, given the volume of spam. It'd be nice if we could [[Special:UnusedTemplates|clean]] [[Special:UnusedFiles|out]] the attic too. Shall we hold a vote? [[User:Davidy22|<u><font color="purple" size="2px">David</font><font color="green" size="3px">y</font></u><sup><font color="indigo" size="1px">22</font></sup>]][[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>(talk)</tt>]] 06:41, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
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::I only have sporadic time to do edits, so I'd likely not be an ideal choice if there can be only 1 more... --[[User:Bpothier|B. P.]] ([[User talk:Bpothier|talk]]) 07:19, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
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::: This is yet again great.  I'm researching SPAM prevention tools in use on other wikis.  Let me know if you have something you think will work.  Also, Lcarsos, you are up. Best new admin I can think of.  I'm not afraid to add other admins if some (including myself) are less active.  Other candidates can be submitted here. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 17:53, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
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::::I'm immensely honored that you trust me that much. Thank you, I'll work hard to better the wiki. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 18:00, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
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== Redirect main-page of explainxkcd.com ==
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I mentioned this on the old site, but I guess this is a better place. The first page most people will get to is still the main explainxkcd.com page. With no more updates there it looks at first glance like a dead place, and when I out of habit go there, I still get an instinctive feeling that the site is dead because the first place I am send is a dead place. PLEASE redirect the main-page to this wiki, since this is the place that is still alive. [[User:Carewolf|Carewolf]] ([[User talk:Carewolf|talk]]) 14:40, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
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: Good idea. Will work on that soon. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 17:49, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
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== Tagline ==
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I haven't created [[MediaWiki:Tagline]] yet, but we need to think about what to put there.  That's the familiar "From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia." over at Wikipedia - it appears right under the title of each page.  --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 10:39, 1 August 2012 (EDT)
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<br><small>Moved from [[Explain XKCD:Community portal]] --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 00:09, 4 August 2012 (EDT)</small>
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:I think it's pretty obvious we should keep the "It's cause you're dumb." :) --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 13:20, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
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:: Well, since there haven't been any objections, I went ahead and added it: [[Mediawiki:Tagline]]. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 18:46, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
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== Separate discussion page(s) ==
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I think we should create a separate Discuss the wiki page, so that each discussion can go under its own header. I'd suggest setting up a todo list where people can help out. I'd start with a suggestion:
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: We should be using [[mw:Manual:Short URL|cleaner urls]]. Maybe [http://shorturls.redwerks.org/ this tool] can help setting that up. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 05:46, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
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:: Whatever we do decide, I've created <nowiki>{{xkcd}}</nowiki> and <nowiki>{{explain}}</nowiki> templates to create links to the xkcd site and other explanations here on this site; that should factor at least those sites (nice central administration) as well as helping us categorize pages that use them.  Was thinking of also <nowiki>{{wiki}}</nowiki> for the same benefit, even if there's already a prefix built into mediawiki... the only drawback is the bias toward the en side...  [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 10:31, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
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:::I'm liking the idea of creating a Discuss the wiki page - I'll start one if someone doesn't/hasn't beat me to it and add it to the sidebar.  I'd asked for better URLs at [[User talk:Jeff#Robots.txt]], though I didn't know what they were called. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 17:17, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
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::::I also like the idea of the {{tl|xkcd}} tags.  On a related note, I've [[Special:Import|imported]] {{tl|tl}}.  :-)  <s> I also realize we don't have a secure server here, but I'd support the best practice of beginning URLs with protocol-relative links ( // instead of http:// or https:// ) anyway, especially since the xkcd website ''itself'' appears to be https-compatible.</s><small>Nevermind, it doesn't seem to be.  So I guess it doesn't matter.</small>  --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 22:40, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
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::: Maybe we can create a subpage of the community portal for the wiki discussion. What do you think? --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 04:32, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
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:::: Also one for editing coordination (see [[User:SurturZ/sandbox]] for instance), another for mediawiki assistance (requests to admins perhaps on the same page, or on a separate one). Any other ideas? --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 04:41, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
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<small>Moved from [[Explain XKCD:Community portal]], may need to be broken out into new headers or sub-headers. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 00:12, 4 August 2012 (EDT)</small>
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Great job on creating the subpages! I think the subpages can be made more intuitive for newcomers, though. Here are my subbestions:
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* merge "/Design" and "/Proposals" into '''"/Discuss the wiki"''' or "/Improve the wiki" or something to that effect.
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* rename "/Technical" into '''"/Tecnical assistance"''' so it is clear that it should be used for one-off issues rather than coordination of wiki-wide changes (which should go in the section above)
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* merge the "/Administrator's noticeboard" above? That would reinforce that adminship is nothing but a set of technical tools to assist the wiki
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* New '''"/Editing coordination"''' subpage for organizing what to do, maintenance, keeping a TODO list for newcomers to tackle, etc -- essentially like WikiProjects work at Wikipedia.
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--[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 04:35, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
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:As I see this, it would involve mostly just renaming pages.  I don't particularly care what the names are, so I won't comment on that.
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:*I'd like to keep /Administrator's noticeboard for the time being.  The primary advantage of this is that administrators can watchlist this and things which need the tools are less likely to get lost in discussion.  It can always be deprecated afterwards if it isn't being used enough.
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:*I'd sort of seen /Design as doing what you're proposing for /Editing coordination, though I didn't explain it as well.
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:--''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 18:43, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
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:: Ok, I get what you mean with the Admin page. I don't think this wiki is going to be that busy to warrant a separate page, though. But for now, let's at least simplify the name? "Admin requests", for instance :)
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:: And yeah, Design isn't really a good name for content-related coordination. What I'm suggesting here is to have one page for meta (wiki-related) discussion, and another for content-related discussion. Does that make sense? And what name do you think would be good for the former rather than the current, too generic imo, "Proposals"? --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 19:20, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
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:::"Discuss the wiki" sounds good to me, as does "Admin requests."  Or whatever, I guess.  ;-)  I may not be online much for the next few days (or much this evening), so go ahead and change it how you think it should be, I guess.  Having stable discussion pages sooner than later would be good.  --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 01:48, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
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:::: Ok I changed the admin page name, and merged "design" and "proposals", but for now I left it named "Proposals". I'm not quite confident about the clarity of "Discuss the wiki"... I'll wait until others comment here. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 14:06, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
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::::: I'm not seeing any further discussion and it's been a few days since the move, so I'm clearing the sitenotice. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 02:38, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
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== Automatic Import ==
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Hi
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I created a draft for the comic pages. It's still work in progress, but I'd like to retrieve feedback.
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Also, maybe we could autmatically import comics using the JSON data Randall gives us ([http://xkcd.com/614/info.0.json]). This way, we could also include transcripts. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 15:23, 1 August 2012 (EDT)
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: Hm, I should add a link to my draft: [[User:SlashMe/Testpage]] ;-) --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 06:54, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
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I updated the page, including links to the next/previous comic similar to [[Template:ComicHeader]]. I used comic 472, because it has a lot of metadata (link, news, HTML title, etc.). --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 07:32, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
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Just to remind everyone, I'd be ready to import the comics, but I don't want to until I got more feedback. Please have a look at [[User:SlashMe/Testpage]] and tell me your opinion. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 06:02, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
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: I think your test page looks great. I'm a big fan of it. Any way to fit the text in the text box rather than having it run all the way to the right? --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 18:19, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
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:: I just made a change concerning line breaks, at least it works in Firefox and Chrome. Could somebody please test it in different versions of Internet Explorer?
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:: If you agree, I would start uploading tomorrow. I'll send you a mail. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 18:31, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
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<small>Moved from [[User talk:Jeff]]. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 00:38, 4 August 2012 (EDT)</small>
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The discussion is now at [[Explain XKCD:Community_portal/Design#Header template]]. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 04:20, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
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== "Random comic?" ==
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Not to clutter the sidebar, but what would you say to adding a "Random comic" right under "Random page", linking to [//dynamic.xkcd.com/random/comic/ //dynamic.xkcd.com/random/comic/] ? --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 01:46, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
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:Naw, xkcd already has a random comic.  I think we should have a ''random explanation''. ;-)  All kidding aside, I was wondering: generating a random member of a category...?  Has that improved since the early days when I tried to do something like that. -- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 03:19, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
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::Hi. For how to do this, we could install the [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Random_In_Category Random In Category] Mediawiki extension, which would allow us to use <nowiki>[[Special:RandomInCategory/Comics]]</nowiki> to point to any random explanation. {{User:Omega/sig}} 22:42, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
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::: Or we could move the comics into a Comic namespace, and use Special:Random/comic (See for instance [[Special:Random/template]]). This doesn't require any server-side changes. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 23:58, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
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== Header template ==
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Hi, I've created a template called [[Template:ComicHeader]], which might make things easier when creating comic pages (and also provide better consistency between the pages). I've used it on the [[Internal monologue]] page, to display the comic number and the date it was published. The template also adds the page to the [[:Category:Comics|Comics]] category.
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You just need to add:
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<pre>{{ComicHeader|1089|August 1, 2012}}</pre>
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…to the start of the page (replacing the comic number and date).
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I'll try to make the template look a bit nicer, but the great thing about templates of course, is that once they're updated, the changes are reflected on all the pages that include that template. --[[User:Yirba|Yirba]] ([[User talk:Yirba|talk]]) 18:46, 1 August 2012 (EDT)
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:By the way, I'm thinking of maybe programming something that would allow you to easily import the comic image and alt text from xkcd without having to upload the images manually and the like. You'd just have to host a single PHP file on your server and make a few changes to the MediaWiki configuration. Of course, you'd be able to see source code and everything to make sure I'm not trying to do something fishy. :-P Let me know what you think. :-) --[[User:Yirba|Yirba]] ([[User talk:Yirba|talk]]) 18:54, 1 August 2012 (EDT)
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::Yirba - I like the idea.  My email is [email protected] - send me what you put together and we can sort it out. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 19:37, 1 August 2012 (EDT)
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::Ditto on the Template.  Up-vote.  Any thought on harvesting the pre-wiki content from ExplainXKCD with some sort of a Python, Perl, or PHP script?  (That sounds more like a 'bot than something that would have to be hosted, though.) [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 01:52, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
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::: I was thinking of putting it into a infobox, please [[#Idea|see above]]. I also intended to automatically extract data from xkcd, which would lack descriptions, but at least we would have data like title, image and transcripts. Also, there are some other data like links (e.g. 832), news (which are displayed in xkcd's header, e.g. 739) and titles which contain HTML (259 and 472). I also extracted all those data. When we agree on a page layout, I could begin programming a bot. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 06:54, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
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::::Hmmm… an infobox may be a good idea. And a bot that imports data from xkcd might be handy. Anyway, here's something I programmed that would allow for access to the xkcd API from the wiki itself. Essentially, you'd put this xkcdinfo.php ([http://gist.github.com/3239432 source], [http://github.com/downloads/Yirba/yirba.github.com/xkcdinfo.php download]) file somewhere on the server (e.g. at http://www.explainxkcd.com/xkcdinfo.php) and [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Interwiki#Adding_a_new_website_for_interwiki_linking include it in MediaWiki's interwiki table] (ensuring iw_trans == 1):
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<pre>INSERT INTO interwiki (iw_prefix, iw_url, iw_local, iw_trans) VALUES ('xkcdinfo', 'http://www.explainxkcd.com/xkcdinfo.php?input=$1', 0, 1);</pre>
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::::After [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgEnableScaryTranscluding enabling scary transclusion] in LocalSettings.php, you'd then be able to send queries to the xkcd JSON API via this file. In other words, <code><nowiki>{{xkcdinfo:32-title}}</nowiki></code> would make comic 32's title appear. <code><nowiki>{{xkcdinfo:55-alt}}</nowiki></code> would make comic 55's image text appear. I've also set it so you could enter <code><nowiki>{{xkcdinfo:100-embed}}</nowiki></code>, and it would make the comic 100 image appear on the wiki page. Feel free to use it however you want (if at all), and modify the code should you wish. (Hint: Using the number 0 for the comic number will query the most recent comic, so <code><nowiki>{{xkcdinfo:0-num}}</nowiki></code> will return the current comic number. Also, adding "raw:" before "xkcdinfo:" might be more useful in some instances. E.g.: <code><nowiki>{{raw:xkcdinfo:555-title}}</nowiki></code>)--[[User:Yirba|Yirba]] ([[User talk:Yirba|talk]]) 14:50, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
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::::: Nice idea, altough this would mean to load all data from xkcd whenever a page is <del>viewed</del><ins>edited</ins> (I think this is the way MediaWiki caches the data). This is a lot of traffic for little data. I'd say to include the metadata statically, but linking the external image seems a good thing to me. Again, it'd be great if you gave me feedback for [[User:SlashMe/Testpage|my idea]]. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 15:54, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
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::::::Yes, the data would be loaded from xkcd for each edit. You can, however, substitute (subst) the template for data that is unlikely to change. And therefore the data would indeed be stored statically. I like the layout you've come up with. It could perhaps do with a bit of tweaking here and there, but the general idea is good. --[[User:Yirba|Yirba]] ([[User talk:Yirba|talk]]) 17:16, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
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::::::: What kind of tweaking do you mean? I know the code is a bit messy, if you have a better idea, please tell me (or do it yourself - hey, it's a wiki!). The CSS should be placed in an external file, but for now, it's ok. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 17:51, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
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Looks like there is another/newer template called [[Template:Comic]] that includes prev/next buttons as well.
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You add it with:
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<pre>{{comic
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| number    = 1
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| date      = September 30, 2005
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| title    = {{PAGENAME}}
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| image    = barrel_cropped_(1).jpg
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| imagesize =
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| alttext  = Don't we all.
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}}
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<small>Moved from [[User talk:Jeff]]. --~~~~</small>
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==Description==
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xxxxxxxxxxx
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</pre>
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No need to include the alt text separately, as the template does it for you.  It also includes the comic category, but only if the first 4 fields are filled out.
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--[[User:Bpothier|B. P.]] ([[User talk:Bpothier|talk]]) 18:47, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
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: Yes, but that is not necessarily an advantage. My template only creates the infobox, so you are still able to create an introductory text or other sections, for special comics that need a more detailed description. I can also add categories if needed. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 19:02, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
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::I think it is a major advantage to make the thing easier to use and more consistant site-wide.
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::As the creator of the new one, I'm obviously biased, but I created it because I think it's better. Not putting your work down, it was a great piece of code that I put to work in my template. But I think if there's need for pre-text of any kind (not sure there is, as the articles probably should all open with the comic itself as presented on XKCD), a pre-comment can be added into the template, but I'm not sure what that would be. Perhaps there would be a requirement for special circumstances like the comic a few weeks ago where there were a million iterations depending on locality, browser, etc. But that's the rarity. I think the new one simplifies it for users. They need only one template to post the comic, alt text title and nav buttons. What could be easier? [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 19:08, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
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::: As the creator of the other one, I'm equally biased. What about a "main template", which then calls one or two other templates (e.g. one for the infobox, another for image and alt text? For most comics, this main template could be used, but if absolutely needed, it would still be possible to use the underlying templates with custom sections/text. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 19:15, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
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::::I just now saw your request for feedback on your new comic page with the sidebar. I honestly am not sure which format is better. I kind of like my format for the fact that it basically presents the comic as it was originally posted, but your infobox does provide some additional stuff like 3D link (not sure what "news" is, of where the "link" comes from but...) Perhaps we could integrate the two. I like that the comic is visble right away on my template, but on your page it's down below the first header. I don't think the comic itself needs an "image" heading. No disrespect, but I think your sidebar, esp. because of the "news" field is a bit chunky - too wide for most of its content.
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::::I think we could easily add things like a "3d" link into {{tl|comic}} as part of the next/prev bar where a "3D" field in the template is non-blank. Similarly, original title could read something like (Originally titled: xxxxx) below the primary title in a smaller font. Other than the "link" and "news" fields (which again, I'm not sure what they are), I think that would inclde all the same info as your infobox into my template. Thoughts?
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::::As to your other comment about compartmentalizing the template, I have nothing against that, but which parts of the template would you want to be able to use separately (and can you suggest an example where that might be necessary?) Subdividing the template can always be done later if it becomes needed; just trying to get an idea of what you have in mind by compartmentalizing it. Cheers [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 19:43, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
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<small>Moved from [[User talk:Jeff]]. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 00:37, 4 August 2012 (EDT)</small>
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{{outdent|::::}}
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''Suggestion:''
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* I will start by uploading all images. This will take some time and has no points to discuss. (If it has, tell me.) At a later point, maybe we could link them directly from xkcd.com.
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* For the comic pages: Let's say we'll use {{tl|Comic}}. I'll change the arguments of the template to be more like my {{tl|Infobox comic}}, see [[Template:Infobox comic#Arguments|documentation]]. I'll keep the ''alttext'' argument, but make ''image'' optional (file name should be guessed from the title). Do we really need ''imagesize''?
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* {{tl|Comic}} would then call some further templates, passing the appropriate arguments. This way, we are able to use custom sections/text if needed for special comics (like [http://xkcd.com/1037/ Umwelt]) by using these templates instead of the all-in-one {{tl|Comic}}.
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* Since we have one template doing all the work, we can easily change the page layout even after the import. (We should only keep track of the pages that don't use {{tl|Comic}}, using a hidden category)
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* For consistency, I would move all existing pages out of the way and re-create them. The moved pages could be collected by adding them to a category like [[:Category:legacy pages]], so they should easily be found. Descriptions should be moved to the new pages, afterwards the legacy pages can be deleted.
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This way, I can import all comics, but we would still be able to change the layout afterwards. My 2ct concerning page layout:
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* <del>'''Use comic titles as page names.'''</del><ins>(See below)</ins> The title should be prominent, the number will be in the infobox.
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* I'll remove ''Original title'', ''news'' and ''link'' from the infobox and move them to a section after the description. (For details, see [[Template:Infobox_comic#Documentation|here]])
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* suggested layout:
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<pre>
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=====page title=====
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+--------------------+ +---------+
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|                    | | infobox |
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|      image        | |  text  |
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|(no section heading)| |        |
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|                    | |        |
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|                    | +---------+
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+--------------------+
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==alt==
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text
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==description==
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text
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==transcript==
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text
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==original title, news and link== (if available)
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text
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</pre>
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Still open for opinions.--[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 04:13, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
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:It might make more sense to use the comic number as the page title, and then use [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgAllowDisplayTitle DISPLAYTITLE] to make the comic title appear in place of the number. Just putting that out as another possibility. --[[User:Yirba|Yirba]] ([[User talk:Yirba|talk]]) 09:49, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
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::Good point, I agree. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 09:54, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
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If anyone wants to use it, I've written a bot [http://pastebin.com/5F877BHE] that can upload images, create redirect pages, and create comic pages. You can change the format it uses for the comic page if you have some knowledge of python. To use it, look at [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Pywikipediabot/Quick_Start_Guide]. --[[User:Cyanfish|Cyanfish]] ([[User talk:Cyanfish|talk]]) 10:56, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
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:Sorry, I was faster. I'm using [http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/mwclient/ mwclient], and I already uploaded all images. I could also create pages and redirects, but I'm waiting until we have a consent. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 11:02, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
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::A few thoughts: if you start uploading images, but don't create the comic pages with them, a user going to create a new comic page isn't going to know whether or not the comic image has already been uploaded. This could be confusing. Hopefully the uploads are going to be named the same as the original images? (when I do upload, I actually just paste the URL in my "browse" box and upload directly from my browsers cache that way so it works out), but I just want to avoid duplicating images on the server as well as wasting time by trying to upload something that's already there.
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::As to the page layout, I'm still of the view that the transcript should be in a collapsed frame so that it doesn't take up half the article. I don't honestly think that most people are coming to read the transcript. I could be wrong tho. Open to opinions on that. Otherwise, I do like transcript AFTER The explanation (also, the heading "explanation" vs. "description" as mentioned in another discussion in the portal. [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 14:09, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
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:::PS: We definately need imagesize. It defaults to full size, but I think we definately need the optional argument for large comics. Remembering that this is a wiki to explain the comics, there are many large comics that ought to be restricted to a smaller size for the page (they can be clicked to enlarge - the template automatically creates a "click to enlarge" link if imagesize is used). I have generally been using a 375 or 400px size for keeping larger comics managable, but sometimes it's a comic-dependant decision. Also, notwithstanding my comment on another thread, even though I agree that the xkcd commentary is actually "title text", just as a side note, I've just noticed that the transcripts for older comics actually do call it "alt text") [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 15:40, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
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:::: As long as no one has any objections, this header looks awesome (with ImageSize as TheHYPO suggested), so feel free to work on the importation functionality.  Let me know if you need anything from me in order to import from the Wordpress side of things.  If we start talking importation, lets move that conversation under a different header. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 15:56, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
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=== Date format ===
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I suggest to enter the date as YYYY-MM-DD and using <nowiki>{{#dateformat: {{date}}}</nowiki> in {{tl|comic}}. This way, the date should be displayed using the personal preferences (see [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-datetime]]). Does anyone disagree? --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 20:42, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
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== Displaying Comics {{done|Closed}}==
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